View Full Version : Macross Frontier - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll
Welcome to the discussion thread for Macross Frontier, Episode 19.
Thread Guidelines
Raw requests and offers are not permitted anywhere on this forum.
Spoilers about future events must not be posted in this thread.
If you need to reference something that would spoil a future event, reply directly with a private message (http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?faq=vb_board_usage#faq_vb_pm_explain).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if it has not aired yet.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Please try to keep the discussion on topic.
Spoiler Policy
Any spoiler that reveals future events, even under a spoiler tag, will be deleted.
Spoiler tags should still be used where appropriate.
Adding a Spoiler tag:
spoiler.gif
Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found
on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms.
Make sure that you include a title for the spoiler!
Please use the Report button if you see any spoilers:
report.gif
Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar.
Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators
to locate and deal with problems quickly.
Posting prohibited spoilers will result in a ban.
Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.
P.S. Premature voting is equivalent to premature eja... uhm... Do not vote in the poll without actually watching the episode. Since the poll is public, all of us can see who those premature voters are.
I claim first! 18 hours 20 mins to go. Sheryl in kimono FTW!:love::love:
Lostdreams
2008-08-13, 17:14
I'm hoping for Fooly Cooly to happen between Sheryl and Alto:eyespin::eyespin::D
lone_wolf
2008-08-13, 17:16
I claim first! 18 hours 20 mins to go. Sheryl in kimono FTW!:love::love:
LOL!
Anyhow, I'm dying to see this episode....but moreso episode 20 where the main characters will begin deciphering their feelings.
Ugh...the wait is immensely painful.
Just to add to Darial's desire to see Sheryl in a kimono, I'm hoping we hear a glimpse of the enka song sometime soon.
--Lone Wolf
一匹狼
LOL!
Anyhow, I'm dying to see this episode....but moreso episode 20 where the main characters will begin deciphering their feelings.
Ugh...the wait is immensely painful.
Just to add to Darial's desire to see Sheryl in a kimono, I'm hoping we hear a glimpse of the enka song sometime soon.
--Lone Wolf
一匹狼
I am just hoping for Alto to be whacked with a big stick so he can wake up and smell the coffe... errr... Galactic Fairy.
- Tak
I am just hoping for Alto to be whacked with a big stick so he can wake up and smell the coffe... errr... Galactic Fairy.
- Tak
<sigh> I guess it's too much to hope for some Alto x Sheryl hot coffee in this episode. :o:naughty:
God knows how many times I've checked T-sho tonight thinking it was Thursday.
You'd think after the first couple of times I'd learn...I hate Summer.
God knows how many times I've checked T-sho tonight thinking it was Thursday.
You'd think after the first couple of times I'd learn...I hate Summer.
Heh, I, along with my compatriot Tsuchiro, have been counting down the days, hours and minutes since episode 18 aired. I actually began counting down for 20 a couple days ago in anticipation of the depression after 19 airs...
justinstrife
2008-08-13, 20:18
<sigh> I guess it's too much to hope for some Alto x Sheryl hot coffee in this episode. :o:naughty:
I'm with you there...
Gahhhh Alto is going to get a kick out the airlock if he doesn't wake up soon.
I actually began counting down for 20 a couple days ago in anticipation of the depression after 19 airs...
LOL. Why do you think I made 3 Macross Frontier AMVs this past week? This waiting is killing me. :heh::twitch::heh:
I'm with you there...
Gahhhh Alto is going to get a kick out the airlock if he doesn't wake up soon.
I've been wanting to do this:
http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/2673/imagejv6.gif
- Tak
kilroy0097
2008-08-14, 00:49
Yea Alto has been getting more and more stupid since the start. I thought he would be growing from his experiences instead he has become even more filled with angst and emotional. War and Conflict is supposed to make teenagers grow up quickly not make them regress into children.
magnuskn
2008-08-14, 00:50
I actually got schooled by Swampy a few days ago in IRC when I mentioned my hope in dreams for some positive development on the Sheryl X Alto front. Seems at this time she needs to actually push him away and not tell him about her illness, so that he can come for her later, when he finds out. ;)
kilroy0097
2008-08-14, 01:05
Well we already know he goes back to the homestead to see Sheryl. Hence the Sheryl in a kimono scene. Maybe they will discuss more stuff then. Alto will probably become even more EMO. I wouldn't be surprise if he started wearing goth makeup, wearing black clothes and started cutting himself at this point.
Alto should finaly be a man and decide.. Furtheremore now that Sheryl knows, that she'll die she needs hime more than ever before.
sailorsim
2008-08-14, 01:10
if the episode ends just as the "homecoming" scene plays, there's going to be a few over-turned tables on my side
Well we already know he goes back to the homestead to see Sheryl. Hence the Sheryl in a kimono scene. Maybe they will discuss more stuff then. Alto will probably become even more EMO. I wouldn't be surprise if he started wearing goth makeup, wearing black clothes and started cutting himself at this point.
Funny, Alto strikes me more as the crybaby type then the Emo type
ZODDGUTS
2008-08-14, 01:22
Funny, Alto strikes me more as the crybaby type then the Emo type
Pretty much, he tends to bitch quite alot. At the start of the series I was fine with the way he was because I thought by now he would settle down showing growth as the series went along but instead it seems that he's gotten worse with he's temper and yelling... he's starting to remind me of Shin from Gundam Destiny ugh.
I hope Sheryl turns that frown upside down with this episode.
Pretty much, he tends to bitch quite alot. At the start of the series I was fine with the way he was because I thought by now he would settle down showing growth as the series went along but instead it seems that he's gotten worse with he's temper and yelling... he's starting to remind me of Shin from Gundam Destiny ugh.
I'm one of the few who happen to like Shinn and they are nothing alike at all. Alto is frustrated at times, but he's not yelling and screaming and blaming everyone else for his problems while hanging on to the past. If anything Alto runs away from the past. About the only thing they have in common in their total failure to protect anything. :heh:
I don't get why people want him to decide anything right now. Too damn soon for my liking. I also agree with Swamp that she's probably going to push him away more then tell him anything.
I'm one of the few who happen to like Shinn and they are nothing alike at all. Alto is frustrated at times, but he's not yelling and screaming and blaming everyone else for his problems while hanging on to the past. If anything Alto runs away from the past. About the only thing they have in common in their total failure to protect anything. :heh:
More like Kamille Vidan, then? What with his hair-trigger sensitivity about his girly looks/girly name, and renacting the helmet shattering Waverider crash in the Lion OP.
Also, his talent for picking a fight with/pissing off other cast members and getting decked as a result.
The running list so far...
His father
Ozma
Mikhail
Brera
Sheryl :heh:
The running list so far...
His father
Ozma
Mikhail
Brera
Sheryl :heh:
Strangely enough, Alto's fight with Sheryl usually makes the latter... a lot healthier.
- Tak
squaresphere
2008-08-14, 08:48
Alto's what 17? How many 17 year old guys would even want to be locked into these heavy handed life scenarios he has to deal with?
I'm not just talking about the triangle either. Add to that he's got a massive inferiority complex cause he was most well known for playing a woman :P.
I'm hoping in 19 we get to see some hope for Sheryl, her telling Alto about her illness is gonna affect him in even a worse way. There's literally nothing he can do. With Ranka at least he can pretend that he can protect her, but with Sheryl he's no doctor/scientist.
How much longer this is getting painful....
I soo want to see this episide. More Sheryl again.
I can almost forget Ranka :3
kilroy0097
2008-08-14, 09:35
No matter how much of a Sheryl fanboi you are you can't wish the disappearance of Ranka because without her the triangle would not exist and without her Sheryl would not be in the situation she is in. Hence all the delicious drama and angst fanboi thrive would not exist without Ranka. So Ranka can't disappear. Get used to it.
justinstrife
2008-08-14, 10:30
Alto's what 17? How many 17 year old guys would even want to be locked into these heavy handed life scenarios he has to deal with?
I'm not just talking about the triangle either. Add to that he's got a massive inferiority complex cause he was most well known for playing a woman :P.
I'm hoping in 19 we get to see some hope for Sheryl, her telling Alto about her illness is gonna affect him in even a worse way. There's literally nothing he can do. With Ranka at least he can pretend that he can protect her, but with Sheryl he's no doctor/scientist.
This is why I tend to like the Senpai characters more so in these shows. They've already got their heads on straight, and know what they want.
No matter how much of a Sheryl fanboi you are you can't wish the disappearance of Ranka because without her the triangle would not exist and without her Sheryl would not be in the situation she is in. Hence all the delicious drama and angst fanboi thrive would not exist without Ranka. So Ranka can't disappear. Get used to it.
The Universe seeks balance in all things. Go get 'em Kilroy! :D
Tsuchiro
2008-08-14, 10:37
Sigh... Frontier delayed by 1 1/2 hr
Sigh... Frontier delayed by 1 1/2 hr
baseball right?
Tsuchiro
2008-08-14, 11:23
baseball right?
uh huh.......
uh huh.......
I thought bejing was covered by rain and all matches were cancelled
Key Board
2008-08-14, 11:31
At least it's still airing
it's not uncommon to cancel a broadcast altogether because of a sport event
No matter how much of a Sheryl fanboi you are you can't wish the disappearance of Ranka because without her the triangle would not exist and without her Sheryl would not be in the situation she is in. Hence all the delicious drama and angst fanboi thrive would not exist without Ranka. So Ranka can't disappear. Get used to it.
Im not saying Ranka to disappear. I was just saying that the past episodes we're all Ranka themed. Eversince she got her "Idol" status, its all been focused on Ranka. Im just happy its Sheryl's turn.
Sigh... Frontier delayed by 1 1/2 hr
Sounds like Konata on Lucky Star.
Hey, wait... :twitch:
Stupid delay... still 1h10m to go as of right now.
Also, shameless IRC plug for those who want to stream live. #macrossuki @ rizon.
Bah! Im gonna sleep for 1 hour, all this waiting is killing me xD
And now I see volleyball
That's odd. I had some weird show on and now it's the usual Goro's Bar.
It's starting right now. :)
lone_wolf
2008-08-14, 13:03
It's starting right now. :)
My Keyhole has had the "Login timed out" thing for an hour now. Checked my settings, my router, rebooted everything and checked my firewall setting....nothing....ARRRRRGGGGH!
EDIT: LOL, now I'm only getting ONE channel...and it's not the channel I need....and now it's gone again..
....Hate Keyhole TV
--Lone Wolf
一匹狼
Zhaozhou
2008-08-14, 13:04
Im not saying Ranka to disappear. I was just saying that the past episodes we're all Ranka themed. Eversince she got her "Idol" status, its all been focused on Ranka. Im just happy its Sheryl's turn.
If the series is 28 episodes long, it can be divided in four 7 episodes parts. Part 1 was a standard introduction. Part 2 was caracterized by Grace and Brera. Part 3 seems to be about Ranka as a weapon, and the fall of Sheryl. As such, the situation won't change much until episode 22.
Tsuchiro
2008-08-14, 13:17
My Keyhole has had the "Login timed out" thing for an hour now. Checked my settings, my router, rebooted everything and checked my firewall setting....nothing....ARRRRRGGGGH!
EDIT: LOL, now I'm only getting ONE channel...and it's not the channel I need....and now it's gone again..
....Hate Keyhole TV
--Lone Wolf
一匹狼
tsk tsk... keyhole are for noobs >_>
ranka = /facepalm LOL!!!
Sheryl fan, open your champagne!!! :):p
Ai-kun = uh oh!!!
my livestream failed :< i need my fix damnit!
lone_wolf
2008-08-14, 13:32
tsk tsk... keyhole are for noobs >_>
Keyhole's been working for me yesterday
It's fine...I went to Macross World and streamed another way....now I'm going back to sleep.
--Lone Wolf
一匹狼
Some random points on the episode:
-Wow, Alto's mom looks exactly like him. Or should I say he looks exactly like his mom.
-Brera and Ranka had a very sibling moment and Ranka said he was "like an older brother."
-Ranka has realized that the reason she sings is for Alto's sake and has finally realized her feelings
-It seems like Sheryl has also realized her own feeling with some help from Klan
-Leon is a scheming slimeball as usual and is going to assassinate Harry Glass so he can take control
-Luca realized Ai-kun is a Vajra
-Ai-kun has gone off. Next time we see him he'll be much, much bigger
- Just as Sheryl is ready to confess to Alto bloody Ranka runs in and interrupts. *sighs*
And damn, Ranka really looks ridiculously young when she is running up those stairs. The outfit certainly doesn't help.
Hmmm...imho this last scene is probably a point in favor to a RankaXAlto ending. It's the third such "love interest catches her guy with another woman" scene for Ranka.
SymphonicRain
2008-08-14, 13:35
What a cliff hanger o.o
Next week's episode can't come soon enough!
ranka = /facepalm LOL!!!
Sheryl fan, open your champagne!!! :):p
Ai-kun = uh oh!!!
Not yet... the crucial part will be what Alto will be explaining to Ranka in the next episode when she is all down there weeping and stuff....
If he goes "turbo" on explaining how not true it is ... and all the crappy explanations... then it will definitely be table turning for Sheryl fans... :uhoh:
all this looks like an re-enactment of DYRL...
but I forgot is.. Misa bumping into the room, seeing Minmay and Hikaru... or Minmay bumping into the room, seeing Misa and Hikaru... or ermm... did both scenes happened? :heh:
Sheryl Fans, *pray hard*!
...but I forgot is.. Misa bumping into the room, seeing Minmay and Hikaru... or Minmay bumping into the room, seeing Misa and Hikaru... or ermm... did both scenes happened? :heh:
Misa walks in on Minmay hugging Hikaru at the coffee maker in his room. She lets herself in and tries to hide her dismay over the situation by keeping the subject to the lyrics for the song they found in the city. She leaves crying and Hikaru goes to run after her... much moe ensues.
The end was probably more innocent then it looks anyway, especially considering Sheryl's random collapsing. But man, I'm gonna rage if they go and try to portray Ranka as the one being screwed over.
Ranka singing for Alto? Ugh. Ranka is such a feminist, let me tell you.
- Ranka realised who she really wants to sing to, she looks for Alto
Alto found out about Sheryl being sick, he looks for Sheryl
So chances are, he hasn't found out yet. Sheryl has likely collapsed before she could say anything, and Alto catches her. Cue in Ranka.
The next episode shows Ranka sitting on the stairs in tears, and Alto probably explaining that it doesn't mean anything.
Macross F is the first anime where I do want a certain character to die SO badly.
Please. Die, Ranka.
Oh God no Alto. You're not gona explain a rats-ass to Ranka.
YOU CARE MORE FOR SHERYL! YOU DONT HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO RANKA WHY YOU'RE HOLDING SHERYL IN YOUR ARMS, BECAUSE IT'S NONE OF HER GOD DAMN LOLI BUSINESS!
You enjoy your time with Sheryl, with her in your arms, you do that.
Ranka go home.
Is that a macronized Mikhail in the preview? Or has Klan finally micronized correctly for once?
Hmmm...imho this last scene is probably a point in favor to a RankaXAlto ending. It's the third such "love interest catches her guy with another woman" scene for Ranka.
I read that as KlanXAlto at first and I was like WHAT!?
That's what I get for being tired.
The next episode shows Ranka sitting on the stairs in tears, and Alto probably explaining that it doesn't mean anything.
?? Probably another reason. That's not the first time Ranka saw Sheryl "doing something" to Alto.
Personaly I root for Alto x Sheryl. Ranka is just too childish in my opinion. Furthermore the question is, if Ranka really loves Alto as a man, or more someone dear to her. As for Sheryl, I think it's both, but for Ranka I'm not so sure.
The ending warmed the cockles of my heart immensely. Klan tells Sheryl not to run away when Sheryl is about to leave without seeing Alto at the concert, which was awesome. Also Yasaburo talks about how once someone gets a taste of emotions involved in performing, they can never give it up. This goes for not only Alto, but Sheryl as well. He also compliments her on her acting with regards to Alto after Alto leaves.
ranka = /facepalm LOL!!!
Sheryl fan, open your champagne!!! :):p
Ai-kun = uh oh!!!
*Opens up some champagne* :D:D
1 week of wait yet again xD
nanatsusaya
2008-08-14, 14:21
Misa walks in on Minmay hugging Hikaru at the coffee maker in his room. She lets herself in and tries to hide her dismay over the situation by keeping the subject to the lyrics for the song they found in the city. She leaves crying and Hikaru goes to run after her... much moe ensues.
Actually it's Minmay who leaves crying and Hikaru stays with Misa. He later finds Minmay to give her the lyrics and persuade her to sing again.
The end was probably more innocent then it looks anyway, especially considering Sheryl's random collapsing. But man, I'm gonna rage if they go and try to portray Ranka as the one being screwed over.
Ranka singing for Alto? Ugh. Ranka is such a feminist, let me tell you.
I'm surprised she only realized it by now :uhoh: Meh, so much for slowly become mature and independent... She's back to starting point again. Does Ranka ever have any thought that isn't involving Alto?
Now I can't say singing is Ranka's hope and dream anymore. That realization makes all her past efforts to become the universal idol seem like a joke. Did she do that for herself or just to impress Alto? Does that mean if she does lose him to Sheryl she'll stop singing altogether? That's so much like DYRL Minmey. I'd love to see Alto slapping the girl awake like Hikaru did :uhoh:
Ranka's problems seem to be so little comparing to Sheryl's. It's a teenager love trouble, not a matter of facing the death and losing everything.
This episode seems to remind me that Ranka is like heading for the Minmay route.
squaresphere
2008-08-14, 14:39
^ don't assume it'll be the same, remember no Pineapple salad :P
I'm surprised she only realized it by now :uhoh: Meh, so much for slowly become mature and independent... She's back to starting point again. Does Ranka ever have any thought that isn't involving Alto?
Now I can't say singing is Ranka's hope and dream anymore. That realization makes all her past efforts to become the universal idol seem like a joke. Did she do that for herself or just to impress Alto? Does that mean if she does lose him to Sheryl she'll stop singing altogether? That's so much like DYRL Minmey. I'd love to see Alto slapping the girl awake like Hikaru did :uhoh:
Ranka's problems seem to be so little comparing to Sheryl's. It's a teenager love trouble, not a matter of facing the death and losing everything.
I'd kind of pay to see the slap. :heh: This episode to me, was a huge step backwards in Ranka's growth as a character. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to think it's romantic, but I don't. It's just kind of pathetic.
Well, the sad part is she DOES have problems but ignores them and just does whatever Alto thinks is okay. I'm hoping she'll grow up and actually find a real reason to sing. I mean, she's being used as some ultimate weapon and her reason for doing it even if she knows it's not right, is Alto. :eyespin: It's insulting to any performer (Alto and Sheryl) to have some high school crush be the main reason she's singing.
Her motivation for starting to sing could be Alto, but the sole reason? Didn't she enjoy it before Alto?
I also wouldn't compare this to Minmay/Hikaru/Misa in DYRL. Hikaru and Misa were in an established relationship at the time. Neither one was dying either.
nanatsusaya
2008-08-14, 14:47
Yeah it'll not be the same. This time, Ranka dies.
Hopefully.
The end was probably more innocent then it looks anyway, especially considering Sheryl's random collapsing. But man, I'm gonna rage if they go and try to portray Ranka as the one being screwed over.
Ranka singing for Alto? Ugh. Ranka is such a feminist, let me tell you.
Unfortunately it does kind of look like they are trying to build up Ranka sympathy points. She running up those stairs in all her loli glory just to see Alto. All happy and saying "Alto, Alto, Alto" over and over again. And then she sees Sheryl and Alto and is all emo.
I find it hard to sympathize with her considering all that Sheryl is going through right now.
I also wouldn't compare this to Minmay/Hikaru/Misa in DYRL. Hikaru and Misa were in an established relationship at the time. Neither one was dying either.
Misa was leaving Earth for good on the Megaroad, though, in SDFM. That forced the indecisive Hikaru to finally make his choice, or regret it for the rest of his life.
magnuskn
2008-08-14, 14:55
Unfortunately it does kind of look like they are trying to build up Ranka sympathy points. She running up those stairs in all her loli glory just to see Alto. All happy and saying "Alto, Alto, Alto" over and over again. And then she sees Sheryl and Alto and is all emo.
You canīt imagine my seething hatred for her at that moment. Fricking child, why does she meddle in such an adult relationship? :frustrated:
ranka = /facepalm LOL!!!
Sheryl fan, open your champagne!!! :):p
Ai-kun = uh oh!!!
Go go ai-kun kill the anoying green haired pest
Misa was leaving Earth for good on the Megaroad, though, in SDFM. That forced the indecisive Hikaru to finally make his choice, or regret it for the rest of his life.
True. But I think people were talking about DYRL in that scene with the coffee pot. I don't think you can compare them scene by scene with Frontier. Things are just too different.
You canīt imagine my seething hatred for her at that moment. Fricking child, why does she meddle in such an adult relationship?
I can imagine! :heh: I almost think it will make her look bad considering what Sheryl is going through. I mean how can she be so upset about that when Sheryl is dying and finally trying to tell Alto? All of her actions were so childish and selfish in this episode. This really has to set her some real growth for her.
Key Board
2008-08-14, 15:10
lol at the school days ending
it seems Sheryl pulled a special move this time with a possible confession.
I don't think it was her SUPER move, though, unless she really revealed her entire drama, which I doubt.
edit: regarding those yellow Vajras in the audience. Wouldn't it be HILARIOUS if that was actually Vajra
Sleepy100
2008-08-14, 15:15
I can imagine! :heh: I almost think it will make her look bad considering what Sheryl is going through. I mean how can she be so upset about that when Sheryl is dying and finally trying to tell Alto? All of her actions were so childish and selfish in this episode. This really has to set her some real growth for her.
People, cut her some slack. We all know that Sheryl is dying, but does Ranka? She probably thought that Sheryl only has an annoying cold that never goes away, not some life threatening disease.
- Ranka decides she will sing for Alto, and perks up like a puppy.
- Sheryl pushes Alto away again.
- Alto's brother sees through her act instantly, quite ironic.
- Michael tells Alto how much Sheryl is watching out for him in the midst of her problems. He nearly reveals Sheryl's secret before stopping himself. Alto is beginning to catch on, and demands to know what's going on.
- Klan pushes Sheryl to talk to Alto.
- Ranka mistook Alto's piercing of the heart as a love confession.
- She runs up the stairs going "Alto-kun" 4 times.
- She catches Alto and Sheryl together. (Sheryl probably collapsed)
Preview:
- Alto talks to her when she's either hiding or sulking in the corner.
...Yeah. *needs next episode*
\I don't think it was her SUPER move, though, unless she really revealed her entire drama, which I doubt.
Nah, Sheryl's supermove is coming in Episode 22, IMHO, since it's titled after her new song. Ranka might have a special move coming in 21, but it will be interesting to see how it's played.
edit: regarding those yellow Vajras in the audience. Wouldn't it be HILARIOUS if that was actually Vajra
I think they were real Vajras. In fact, one of them might be Ai-kun himself. :heh: Reason being they look like the bigger version of the Big Zom style Vajra in episode 13. Additionally, the normal population is unlikely to know what "teenage" Vajra looks like, so it's very unlikely there are cosplayers dressed up as ones.
Yeah, I'm laughing at all those times some people insisted that Ranka wasn't dependent on Alto. These last few episodes proved just how bad/clingy she is. All that maturation she gained before seems to be flying out the window.
Though she got points from me back in episode 12 and a bit in the sing off, she has lost many, many points from me for these past few episodes. My usual apathy and ambivalence towards her is starting to creep into dislike. Not quite, but close. I really hope she does something to turn things around.
People, cut her some slack. We all know that Sheryl is dying, but does Ranka? She probably thought that Sheryl only has an annoying cold that never goes away, not some life threatening disease.
I don't think that has much to do with anything. All of her actions before the wtfpwn'd bit were selfish and childish. I don't blame her for not knowing about Sheryl's illness, other then her not caring anything about her since.... well, forever. This is someone she admired as well, in the early episodes.
All I'm saying is I don't see how this is the return of poor underdog Ranka considering the circumstances.
- Ranka mistook Alto's piercing of the heart as a love confession.
Hahahaaaa
All I'm saying is I don't see how this is the return of poor underdog Ranka considering the circumstances.
Sheryl was about to run away when she got cornered by Klan, who forced her to talk to Alto. I assume she was beginning to open up to Alto, but now that Ranka interrupts, she might reconsider her decision. I won't be surprised if Sheryl pulls back even further.
As mentioned again...
Alto won't find out about her condition from her own mouth. That much is assured.
Alto won't find out about her condition from her own mouth. That much is assured.
Yeah, Sheryl is too proud for that, even in her current condition. Besides, I think we're swinging into the political intrigue and action side of the drama again. So I'd expect a quick wrap-up of the triangle situation next episode and leave it on ice until 21/22. :uhoh:
Actually it's Minmay who leaves crying and Hikaru stays with Misa. He later finds Minmay to give her the lyrics and persuade her to sing again....
AH! So, so, so.... Dead to rights! I must be getting old. My memory is failing. :p
Time to get out my DRYL disc again.
Oh lawd Macross Frontier is becomming like a love story now xD
Oh lawd Macross Frontier is becomming like a love story now xD
LOL it's always been Mecha action + Romance for Macross. What show were you watching? :heh:
Key Board
2008-08-14, 17:40
oh, it just me, or is Micheal getting a pineapple salad foreshadowing?
granted, it could be another feint, but Kawamori did say in his interview that SOMEONE will die
LOL it's always been Mecha action + Romance for Macross. What show were you watching? :heh:
Yeah but its now more focused on SherylxAltoxRanka romance for a bit, with a little mech battle from time to time ;)
Macross F is the first anime where I do want a certain character to die SO badly.
Please. Die, Ranka.
:twitch:
Oh God no Alto. You're not gona explain a rats-ass to Ranka.
YOU CARE MORE FOR SHERYL! YOU DONT HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO RANKA WHY YOU'RE HOLDING SHERYL IN YOUR ARMS, BECAUSE IT'S NONE OF HER GOD DAMN LOLI BUSINESS!
You enjoy your time with Sheryl, with her in your arms, you do that.
Ranka go home.
:twitch:
Yeah it'll not be the same. This time, Ranka dies.
Hopefully.
:twitch:
Unfortunately it does kind of look like they are trying to build up Ranka sympathy points. She running up those stairs in all her loli glory just to see Alto. All happy and saying "Alto, Alto, Alto" over and over again. And then she sees Sheryl and Alto and is all emo.
I find it hard to sympathize with her considering all that Sheryl is going through right now.
"they are trying to build up Ranka sympathy points." This is what I'm seeing too.
Like when Sheryl made her move and took alto with her on his birthday.
But this is obvious, no ? Alto broke the heart in the sky with the cupid-arrow... She misleaded it alright but when she saw Alto and Sheryl wrap around how could she take it for a behaviour between friends ?
Sheryl is dying but I find it to easy to take all Sheryl's unhapiness now on Ranka because she interferes with Sheryl and Alto relationship.
You canīt imagine my seething hatred for her at that moment. Fricking child, why does she meddle in such an adult relationship? :frustrated:
adult relationship? they aren't even over 18/21...
How could she know sheryl will be with Alto ?
Go go ai-kun kill the anoying green haired pest
I can imagine! :heh: I almost think it will make her look bad considering what Sheryl is going through. I mean how can she be so upset about that when Sheryl is dying and finally trying to tell Alto?
Like she knew it .....
All of her actions were so childish and selfish in this episode. This really has to set her some real growth for her.
what is childish for me is how they painted her character. What's with these arms?
I see why people hate the fact that a lean girl can win the guy's heart at the end with her always saying " alto-kun....." it kind of bother me too but selfish? The one who is selfish here is Sheryl. What did she talk about her dying to Michail and Klan and not Alto ? To fear he stays with her out of pity ? Yes so she thinks first to her and after to Alto, she fears he doesn't like her so she prefers to keep it for herself this is kind childish too...
I'm surprised she only realized it by now :uhoh: Meh, so much for slowly become mature and independent... She's back to starting point again. Does Ranka ever have any thought that isn't involving Alto?
she wanted to protect his brother alto and everyone in singing the remix aimo...
You should take it also for sheryl who this later episode ever have any thought that isn't involving Alto?... No
OK she's dying OK she isn't the Galaxy Fairy anymore but I thought she was a determined woman? I thought she was independant ? why didn't she go look for Grace for more explanation? She didn't do it but wanted to meet Alto.
It seems for me she is the one who is taking the wrong path for the growth character...until episode 22 thought
Hopefully Ranka will become more independant after that shock and let Alto chase her ( it will be a first)...
Sheryl will sing again to but for what? Her love confession to Alto... She becomes for sure more and more independant:rolleyes:
Ranka's problems seem to be so little comparing to Sheryl's. It's a teenager love trouble, not a matter of facing the death and losing everything.
She may be a vajra. That sound little to you ?
Sheryl lose everything but you should not be so biased ;)
She lose but she is gaining too... what ? New friends like Michail and Klan,She spends more time with Alto , she know now the truth it's better than to be used like a tool (aka Ranka ) no?
Ranka is losing little by little her friend with Nanase who isn't always with her anymore, Michail and Klan are now at 100% with Sheryl because she is dying, her brother entrusts her to Alto like he will not be always with her anymore, Alto spends more time with Michail and a lot with Sheryl than with Ranka.... The only one who is still by her side is Brera.... Some jealousy is in the air :heh:
Yeah, I'm laughing at all those times some people insisted that Ranka wasn't dependent on Alto. These last few episodes proved just how bad/clingy she is. All that maturation she gained before seems to be flying out the window.
Though she got points from me back in episode 12 and a bit in the sing off, she has lost many, many points from me for these past few episodes. My usual apathy and ambivalence towards her is starting to creep into dislike. Not quite, but close. I really hope she does something to turn things around.
You are really but really unfair here.
WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT ?! It's not because she broke in your Sheryl and Alto scene that she became an evil.
I bet you didn't even loved her once ( or appreciate because love seems unreasonable here).
Just because she appeared at the wrong time and we all know what is the meaning of a alto running after her(= AltoxRanka pair more and more likely) just because of that you are all repeled and say she disappointed you? What is that joke seriously ?
I don't think that has much to do with anything. All of her actions before the wtfpwn'd bit were selfish and childish. I don't blame her for not knowing about Sheryl's illness, other then her not caring anything about her since.... well, forever. This is someone she admired as well, in the early episodes.
All I'm saying is I don't see how this is the return of poor underdog Ranka considering the circumstances.
Hahahaaaa
You are pissed because she goes into the lead in the love triangle and Sheryl is left behind now because the only way she can approch Alto is because of her illness.
Alto will obviously chase after Ranka out of guilty but she will go with Brera ... Then will start the rivalry between Alto and Brera with a unrequited love for Sheryl.
This is what I think after reading Nakamura sentence :the Sheryl x Alto end the most popular seems unlikely to happen because it will not be surprising.
All the" Ranka dies" or "i agree with the many of you who don't really care what happens to Ranka. i just find her so annoying for some reason" reflects prefectly how people here can't make the diference between a fact and a desire.
You should seriously asks yourself how you didn't see it coming ( that Ranka had equal chances to end with Alto like Sheryl)you didn't. You only had eyes for your Sheryl QUEEN, it's so impossible for you that Ranka can also win against sheryl.....
You should ask yourself why you couldn't see how sheryl's character was leading towards a more dependant woman(Alto) ,unsure, no, Ranka isn't the only one anymore.
You should ask yourself why you couldn't predict why the compositor painted in episode 19 sheryl like a not so cool character, the role of the bad woman like a lot of anime or movie who steals the other girl's guy ( the scene in this episode looked like that(even if you claim that it's not that they made it look like that ;) even some here saw this , they want to put sheryl as the one between the main couple...
For me and I think a lot of readers who dropped by here, this forum became pretty biased and totally unfair with all the Sheryl sama sheryl the Queen VS Ranka if there is one... which is reduce to the girl who only has a crush on a boy and that's all.
I can see from here people to tell me to get out of here because I'm new and break in your harem and if we are so biased you can also just leave :heh: but some things need to be said here.
I'm surprised to see not even 20 % and I'm kind here, people who can find just one quality about Ranka ( except the she is innocent, pure, or a good sister....).... NOTHING ...except for the green haired girl, the girl who has a crush, the vajra, ....
Instead of ignoring people or tell them to back off of here ( I read all of the threads here so I know what I'm talking about) because they don't have the same vision you should argue with them fairly not " OH SHERYL GAMBATTE " " SHERYL IS OUR QUEEN " so she will wins.... what kind of argument is that seriously?
Doesn't it bother you to all share the same opinion? And no I'm not insulting you but just saying that here, it became really poor in argument but really rich in Sheryl utopia land . " SHERYL SHERYL SHERYL "
and when someone disagree "neg rep " or " how dare you doubt in our sheryl Sama " ? what is that ? :eyebrow:
People said me here the last time that Just make sure to properly site your sources and not rely so much on personal bias when attempting to "prove" something and I really appreciate it but people here don't seem to apply this rule ,Whether or not you want to show your support for Ranka is your call, but it is a whole other deal if you want to actively participate in the shipping wars by using flaky arguments and heavily tinted glasses. The last post don't even contain argument but hymn to death for Ranka or the shool high girl who has a crush....
OK Sheryl is your favorite charater and it's all credit to you but You REALLY REALLY should act more fairly towards the effort that Kawamori put in Ranka's character, her fans and not like a bunch of sheryl's slave with ridiculous behaviour: Please. Die, Ranka. I have been on a lot of forum community but it's the first time I'm seeing this pathetic behaviour retook by others not to mention your partial argument because there isn't anyone to contradict them . That' was long but enough explicit :)
magnuskn
2008-08-14, 18:32
I rewatched the preview and there definitely is a short moment when someones legs ( look like Altos ) are sweeped by someone else ( assumed to be Brera ).
So I guess weīll get another instance of "You are not fit for her!" from Brera, when Alto tries to explain things to Ranka
And dude above me... for me Ranka has grown from "likeable, if childish" character to "self-absorbed infantile" pest during this episode. I was still liking her before, but I really was expecting her tongue to loll out when she ran up these stairs.
How the hell can we take her seriously in this triangle? I guess it kinda is Kawamoris "fault", because he made Sheryl too awesome. :D
I have to agree with Seifall's post.
I still don't have a favorite between the two girls, and I haven't seen 19 yet, but the animosity towards Ranka has gotten pretty vile.... Like I've said elsewhere, I'm married to a girl who is very much like Sheryl, but she has her Ranka genki tendencies too, so I'm living with aspects of each of these characters in real life. I'd NEVER wish one of those parts would die...
I'll wait to see how 19 hits me, but I do know that I won't be hating afterwards...
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one out there who still understands Minmay's pain.
MaiHikari
2008-08-14, 18:54
You are pissed because she goes into the lead in the love triangle and Sheryl is left behind now because the only way she can approch Alto is because of her illness.
Alto will obviously chase after Ranka out of guilty but she will go with Brera ... Then will start the rivalry between Alto and Brera with a unrequited love for Sheryl.
This is what I think after reading Nakamura sentence :the Sheryl x Alto end the most popular seems unlikely to happen because it will not be surprising.
All the" Ranka dies" or "i agree with the many of you who don't really care what happens to Ranka. i just find her so annoying for some reason" reflects prefectly how people here can't make the diference between a fact and a desire.
You should seriously asks yourself how you didn't see it coming ( that Ranka had equal chances to end with Alto like Sheryl)you didn't. You only had eyes for your Sheryl QUEEN, it's so impossible for you that Ranka can also win against sheryl.....
You should ask yourself why you couldn't see how sheryl's character was leading towards a more dependant woman(Alto) ,unsure, no, Ranka isn't the only one anymore.
You should ask yourself why you couldn't predict why the compositor painted in episode 19 sheryl like a not so cool character, the role of the bad woman like a lot of anime or movie who steals the other girl's guy ( the scene in this episode looked like that(even if you claim that it's not that they made it look like that ;) even some here saw this , they want to put sheryl as the one between the main couple...
For me and I think a lot of readers who dropped by here, this forum became pretty biased and totally unfair with all the Sheryl sama sheryl the Queen VS Ranka if there is one... which is reduce to the girl who only has a crush on a boy and that's all.
I can see from here people to tell me to get out of here because I'm new and break in your harem and if we are so biased you can also just leave :heh: but some things need to be said here.
I'm surprised to see not even 20 % and I'm kind here, people who can find just one quality about Ranka ( except the she is innocent, pure, or a good sister....).... NOTHING ...except for the green haired girl, the girl who has a crush, the vajra, ....
Instead of ignoring people or tell them to back off of here ( I read all of the threads here so I know what I'm talking about) because they don't have the same vision you should argue with them fairly not " OH SHERYL GAMBATTE " " SHERYL IS OUR QUEEN " so she will wins.... what kind of argument is that seriously?
Doesn't it bother you to all share the same opinion? And no I'm not insulting you but just saying that here, it became really poor in argument but really rich in Sheryl utopia land . " SHERYL SHERYL SHERYL "
and when someone disagree "neg rep " or " how dare you doubt in our sheryl Sama " ? what is that ? :eyebrow:
People said me here the last time that Just make sure to properly site your sources and not rely so much on personal bias when attempting to "prove" something and I really appreciate it but people here don't seem to apply this rule ,Whether or not you want to show your support for Ranka is your call, but it is a whole other deal if you want to actively participate in the shipping wars by using flaky arguments and heavily tinted glasses. The last post don't even contain argument but hymn to death for Ranka or the shool high girl who has a crush....
OK Sheryl is your favorite charater and it's all credit to you but You REALLY REALLY should act more fairly towards the effort that Kawamori put in Ranka's character, her fans and not like a bunch of sheryl's slave with ridiculous behaviour: Please. Die, Ranka. I have been on a lot of forum community but it's the first time I'm seeing this pathetic behaviour retook by others not to mention your partial argument because there isn't anyone to contradict them . That' was long but enough explicit :)
I didn't get the first half of your post. It didn't make grammatical sense.
To the second half, you should read all the history of posts before you comment. All reasons for our "bias" or "feelings" has been discussed logically and sensibly before. As everyone got tired of it and from the lack of Ranka supporters in this forum, there wasn't a need to be reasonable as opposed to being funny. Need to have some commedy while we wait a whole week for another episode.
aneeshadc
2008-08-14, 19:01
Okay 1stly Sheryl isnt being selfish by not telling alto about her impending death but selfless because she doesnt want to worry alto. Her fearing rejection has nothing to do with this situation. She is more worried about not being a burden on him. How you see her actions as selfish is beyond me.
2ndly I dont hate Ranka but I get where the others are coming from. The fact that her world seems to revolve around alto is frustrating to watch. She needs to find a purpose in life that doesnt involve alto.
3rdly, I think that ranka interrupting sheryl/alto confession seems to bode well for a sheryl/alto end, at least to me. It'll give her time to fill her super move meter charge.
Personally if I have to go by the basis of interactions and gowth for the characters, Sheryl wins hands down but if it goes by the usual anime trend of equating desire to protect with love (which is boring, predictale, unreal & ridiculous IMO) then only then ranka gets the upperhand.
And dude above me...
We aren't in a flea market you know, I have a nickname... Looks like what I said about people who don't like when someone share an opposite but real opinion is true.... ;)
for me Ranka has grown from "likeable, if childish" character to "self-absorbed infantile" pest during this episode.
Because of what ? It's what I said previously... she step in so it's not good for sheryl
You should be more fair and telling what you really think : " she is a pest because she came at the wrong time..." which in addition has nothing to do with her character... if not I don't now how you could like her before ( in a likeable way) and hate her now because she was running up on the stairs for seeing alto :uhoh:
I was still liking her before, but I really was expecting her tongue to loll out when she ran up these stairs.
Ok I understood.... I am all wrong... you indeed hate her because she she ran up these stairs :heh:
How the hell can we take her seriously in this triangle? I guess it kinda is Kawamoris "fault", because he made Sheryl too awesome. :D
this is disturbing for her future thought.... I don't know how this awesome sheryl can ends up with alto if Kawamori knew since the beginning she was the obvious winner... This doesn't look like a real surprise for me but hey i was wrong for the stairs maybe i am here too...
I don't wish sheryl to die seriously she is an interesting character so I hope you can see how Ranka can be one too... I hope....:uhoh:
aneeshadc
2008-08-14, 19:05
I really dont get where the hate comes from either. All of the characters are lovable, its just that some are more awesome than others.
I didn't get the first half of your post. It didn't make grammatical sense.
Sorry,I'm not used to the the shakespeare language I should write it in chinese or japanese then ?
To the second half, you should read all the history of posts before you comment.
:twitch: Have you read my post ?
All reasons for our "bias" or "feelings" has been discussed logically and sensibly before. As everyone got tired of it and from the lack of Ranka supporters in this forum, there wasn't a need to be reasonable as opposed to being funny
I read all the post and i suggest you to do the same...." please die Ranka" or "annoying character", " SHERYL IS OUR QUEEN so she will win... do not dare to doubt..." Where is the logical in this ? If you consider this been discussed logically and sensibly before well you' are quite a fair fan....
Need to have some commedy while we wait a whole week for another episode.
Why do I feel you set on me here....
Indeed the comedy is each time I see your post (all the biaised ones)full of unbiased argument , logical, well they 're perfect keep the good work !
Okay 1stly Sheryl isnt being selfish by not telling alto about her impending death but selfless because she doesnt want to worry alto. Her fearing rejection has nothing to do with this situation. She is more worried about not being a burden on him. How you see her actions as selfish is beyond me.
She don't want to burden him but it's right with Mikhail or Klan...
OK I don't know how to call it then ...
[/QUOTE]2ndly I dont hate Ranka but I get where the others are coming from. The fact that her world seems to revolve around alto is frustrating to watch. She needs to find a purpose in life that doesnt involve alto. [/QUOTE]
Northern Cross is especilly dedicated to him... so I don't know either how she could do it except singing with Ranka against the enemy...
[/QUOTE]3rdly, I think that ranka interrupting sheryl/alto confession seems to bode well for a sheryl/alto end, at least to me. It'll give her time to fill her super move meter charge.[/QUOTE]
You are the one it seems, look at others post and reaction... they didn't like it and are concerned with the fact that Ranka once again took the " good role" unlike sheryl...
It's disturbing for me(concerning sheryl) but we will see how sheryl will react after alto will look for ranka
[/QUOTE]Personally if I have to go by the basis of interactions and gowth for the characters, Sheryl wins hands down but if it goes by the usual anime trend of equating desire to protect with love (which is boring, predictale, unreal & ridiculous IMO) then only then ranka gets the upperhand.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the character design of Ranka which is really original but other than that the interaction between Ranka and Alto are more developped than with sheryl Which is a fact even if some here do not want to realize it.
You are really but really unfair here.
WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT ?! It's not because she broke in your Sheryl and Alto scene that she became an evil.
I bet you didn't even loved her once ( or appreciate because love seems unreasonable here).
Just because she appeared at the wrong time and we all know what is the meaning of a alto running after her(= AltoxRanka pair more and more likely) just because of that you are all repeled and say she disappointed you? What is that joke seriously ?
Love Ranka? Of course not. Did you see what I wrote? I said my usual "ambivalence". That is what I usually feel towards Ranka. I usually neither like nor dislike Ranka herself as a character. And no I am not being unfair. Notice I said my opinion of her has gone down in the last couple of episodes (particularly 17- 19). She has constantly needed Alto in order to make decisions. She can't seem to make major decisions on her own. To me she has taken a huge step backward. And do I think she is annoying for interrupting Sheryl and Alto? Yes. *shrugs* But that's hardly the sole thing I am basing my opinion on. I am allowed to feel whatever I like for a particular character.
Sheryl is vulnerable right now (with good reason) and does want to see Alto. But do you see her hanging on to him and depending on him to make major life decisions for herself? No. She doesn't need him to confirm anything for her. She is making her own choice....whether it's the right one is another story...
All the" Ranka dies" or "i agree with the many of you who don't really care what happens to Ranka. i just find her so annoying for some reason" reflects prefectly how people here can't make the diference between a fact and a desire.
You should seriously asks yourself how you didn't see it coming ( that Ranka had equal chances to end with Alto like Sheryl)you didn't. You only had eyes for your Sheryl QUEEN, it's so impossible for you that Ranka can also win against sheryl.....
Anyone who has read my posts knows I am constantly saying that I see a RankaxAlto ending. Doesn't matter that I'm a Sheryl fan, I base my opinion on the facts before me. Episode 18 gave Sheryl a better chance, but I still think it leans more towards a Ranka ending at the moment. Maybe that'll change with episode 22. Maybe not. I guess we'll see.
edit:
I read all the post and i suggest you to do the same...." please die Ranka" or "annoying character", " SHERYL IS OUR QUEEN so she will win... do not dare to doubt..." Where is the logical in this ? If you consider this been discussed logically and sensibly before well you' are quite a fair fan....
I think (though I'm not 100% positive) he/she is talking about previous posts in this forum, not this thread. If you go to the Romance thread or the character threads you will see everyone's explanations for why they feel the way they do.
what is childish for me is how they painted her character. What's with these arms?
I see why people hate the fact that a lean girl can win the guy's heart at the end with her always saying " alto-kun....." it kind of bother me too but selfish? The one who is selfish here is Sheryl. What did she talk about her dying to Michail and Klan and not Alto ? To fear he stays with her out of pity ? Yes so she thinks first to her and after to Alto, she fears he doesn't like her so she prefers to keep it for herself this is kind childish too...
How she is drawn has nothing to do with it. See Klan. Her actions are more what makes her seem like a child. Basing her whole career and these huge dreams she is supposed to have on what amounts to a high school crush is childish. It's also pretty demeaning towards women, but I guess I won't get into that. How am I supposed to respect a character who does everything for a guy? I mean seriously? She also again forgets Sheryl's influence on her.
She was selfish for blowing off her commitments to her fans and Frontier during the parade. Sure, she didn't want to do it but she should have. Instead she went on a date with Brera and ate ice cream. She is the savior to those people and she should have been there. I'd say she is also self centered for automatically thinking what Alto was doing was for her. Though I guess it's easy to misunderstand... if you are Ranka. :eyespin:
I'd say Sheryl is keeping everything to herself (and not telling Alto) because she doesn't want to burden or worry him. If anything her sin here is her pride and that she doesn't want Alto to see her as weak.
You are pissed because she goes into the lead in the love triangle and Sheryl is left behind now because the only way she can approch Alto is because of her illness. Alto will obviously chase after Ranka out of guilty but she will go with Brera ... Then will start the rivalry between Alto and Brera with a unrequited love for Sheryl. This is what I think after reading Nakamura sentence :the Sheryl x Alto end the most popular seems unlikely to happen because it will not be surprising.
Yeah, not really. Thanks for trying to analyze me though. If anything this episode just again drove home the fact that Ranka needs to grow up and stand on her own. I'm actually pissed a somewhat likable character, if childish, is even after 19 episodes doing everything for one person alone.
ETA : I just realized not everyone actually knows the dialogue of the episode yet, and I was assuming they did. Sorry. :heh:
Dash_Hunter
2008-08-14, 20:10
She don't want to burden him but it's right with Mikhail or Klan...
OK I don't know how to call it then ...
Sorry but itīs different, Mikhail and Klan found out themselves about Sherylīs sickness because Mikhail got suspicious about the pill. Itīs not like Sheryl went to them saying "please Mikhail, Klan help me iīm sick"
Now that they know she does not want anyone else to find out because she does not want to be a burden, thatīs why she asked Mikhail not to tell Alto..
aneeshadc
2008-08-14, 20:14
She don't want to burden him but it's right with Mikhail or Klan...
OK I don't know how to call it then ...
I'm not sure what you mean eactly......but if u're saying that she doesnt want to burden alto but its okay to burden Michael and klan....then i think u're misintrepreting that scene. Sheryl wasnt he one who told klan & Michael about her illness: THEY FOUND OUT. She even tries to comfort them by telling them that she's Sheryl Nome , she'll be fine when she's the one who needed comfort.
You are the one it seems, look at others post and reaction... they didn't like it and are concerned with the fact that Ranka once again took the " good role" unlike sheryl...
It's disturbing for me(concerning sheryl) but we will see how sheryl will react after alto will look for ranka
Ya I'm worried about that too....I'm hoping that she's the one who pushes alto to ranka so that eventually he comes back to her....but I dont know it could go either way.
[/QUOTE] I agree with the character design of Ranka which is really original but other than that the interaction between Ranka and Alto are more developped than with sheryl Which is a fact even if some here do not want to realize it.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here cause i dont feel ranka/alto is as developed as Sheryl/Alto.
Seifall
I've decided to reply to you in the romance thread here. (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1804889#post1804889) :) Welcome to the forums!
Love Ranka? Of course not. Did you see what I wrote? I said my usual "ambivalence". That is what I usually feel towards Ranka. I usually neither like nor dislike Ranka herself as a character. And no I am not being unfair. Notice I said my opinion of her has gone down in the last couple of episodes (particularly 17- 19). She has constantly needed Alto in order to make decisions. She can't seem to make major decisions on her own. To me she has taken a huge step backward. And do I think she is annoying for interrupting Sheryl and Alto? Yes. *shrugs* But that's hardly the sole thing I am basing my opinion on. I am allowed to feel whatever I like for a particular character.
Sheryl is vulnerable right now (with good reason) and does want to see Alto. But do you see her hanging on to him and depending on him to make major life decisions for herself? No. She doesn't need him to confirm anything for her. She is making her own choice....whether it's the right one is another story...
I know, I saw your post about how disturbing this event in this episode is for sheryl.
But looks like she became the evil in person in just one episode because she appeared when she shouldn't This is what I read on the post of the major part of people here using the argument" well I liked her before but now she is a pest" :uhoh: And I didn't see her kill anyone nor insult sheryl she just came that's all what's the use of make a big deal of that ?
[/QUOTE] Anyone who has read my posts knows I am constantly saying that I see a RankaxAlto ending. Doesn't matter that I'm a Sheryl fan, I base my opinion on the facts before me. Episode 18 gave Sheryl a better chance, but I still think it leans more towards a Ranka ending at the moment. Maybe that'll change with episode 22. Maybe not. I guess we'll see .[/QUOTE]
I agree.
How she is drawn has nothing to do with it. See Klan. Her actions are more what makes her seem like a child. Basing her whole career and these huge dreams she is supposed to have on what amounts to a high school crush is childish. It's also pretty demeaning towards women, but I guess I won't get into that. How am I supposed to respect a character who does everything for a guy? I mean seriously? She also again forgets Sheryl's influence on her.
Klan is more mature than Ranka sure, but she can macronized herself too...
Ok she is kind of childish when she says Alto kun all the time or jumps at him like a school girl but I can tell you that because she is so blinded by her love for alto she save him and Sheryl ... OK her intention was more to save Alto because she was worried but everything for a guy? Why did she start to sing ? This is not for alto but because he gives her his support....
Why sheryl was singing ? To give hopes and dreams to her fan ? So why did she transfer to his school? Why taking Pilot course too? This is too easy... they both are trying to make a diference so try to do something with Alto, not only Ranka.
Seriously Ranka isn't making everything for alto now but yes before she did.
She was selfish for blowing off her commitments to her fans and Frontier during the parade. Sure, she didn't want to do it but she should have. Instead she went on a date with Brera and ate ice cream. She is the savior to those people and she should have been there. I'd say she is also self centered for automatically thinking what Alto was doing was for her. Though I guess it's easy to misunderstand... if you are Ranka. :eyespin:
This is the first time for her, it's not like she is the Galactic Fairy, all this attention, all this screen in the city with her image on, the presence of the president... she should have of course but she isn't confident in herself like Sheryl... Moreover, she is a shy girl, she isn't used to it ....she is the savior like you said.....they can't forced her to do do.........
i agree when you say she is also self centered for automatically thinking what Alto was doing was for her. Though I guess it's easy to misunderstand... if you are Ranka but just for the scene with the sky and Mikhail,Alto...
I knew she will think Alto loves her because he draw it in the sky :heh: and she did. But again, they make her like a not confident character, she must find with a reading glass to see Alto's concern for her.
That was ridiculous i admit it but Alto is so dense.....
I'd say Sheryl is keeping everything to herself (and not telling Alto) because she doesn't want to burden or worry him. If anything her sin here is her pride and that she doesn't want Alto to see her as weak.
She is dying and doesn't want to burden him ? ....why bothering other people then?
I find it a mean spirited when she did it. Why telling them for after saying " Do not tell Alto" ?
Yeah, not really. Thanks for trying to analyze me though. If anything this episode just again drove home the fact that Ranka needs to grow up and stand on her own. I'm actually pissed a somewhat likable character, if childish, is even after 19 episodes doing everything for one person alone.
Well I didn't try to analyze you ... just to telll Ranka is not that childish compared to Luca by example.... After this episode you will see a Ranka who will face the reality: She needs to stop thinking Alto might like her but let him.. If he doesn't come back she has stll the humanity to save :) Each his own.
MaiHikari
2008-08-14, 20:20
Sorry,I'm not used to the the shakespeare language I should write it in chinese or japanese then ?
You can write in Japanese. But many non-Japanese speaking fans here will not understand either way.
:twitch: Have you read my post ?
I read all the post and i suggest you to do the same...." please die Ranka" or "annoying character", " SHERYL IS OUR QUEEN so she will win... do not dare to doubt..." Where is the logical in this ? If you consider this been discussed logically and sensibly before well you' are quite a fair fan....
There are more than this thread in the Macross Frontier forum. I suggest you go to the romance thread for a biopsy of the SherylxAltoxRanka relationship and the Ranka character thread for discussion on why Ranka's behavior failed us. It might take you a few days to get a good understanding though. Good luck!
Back to Macross...yet again the triangle is unresolved--hence the episode title. I still have hopes for Sheryl. Just because she's willful and independent, doesn't mean she should end up without the guy she loves.
6 days 15 hours longer for another dosage.
Lostdreams
2008-08-14, 21:11
You can write in Japanese. But many non-Japanese speaking fans here will not understand either way.
There are more than this thread in the Macross Frontier forum. I suggest you go to the romance thread for a biopsy of the SherylxAltoxRanka relationship and the Ranka character thread for discussion on why Ranka's behavior failed us. It might take you a few days to get a good understanding though. Good luck!
Back to Macross...yet again the triangle is unresolved--hence the episode title. I still have hopes for Sheryl. Just because she's willful and independent, doesn't mean she should end up without the guy she loves.
6 days 15 hours longer for another dosage.
I heard ep 22 is when it all gets resolved
SoldierOfDarkness
2008-08-14, 22:48
I'm getting confused here.
What exactly is Leon and Grace up to with the Vajra?
With all the knowledge they have are they even aware that the Vajra have already infilitrated the colony?
Haesslich
2008-08-14, 23:42
One note: because someone 'needs' someone else as they're dying does not the seeds of a good relationship make. Sheryl dying of a disease is NOT supposed to push Alto into picking her, because he knows he can have his cake and eat it too once she kicks the bucket. What it SHOULD be doing is pushing Sheryl to reach out (as Klein proposes) instead of pulling the "I'm Sheryl" act as if it'll stop her from succumbing to the V-type infection.
However, that last scene DID do something - it'll push Ranka into acting, as she's been too busy following other people's orders or wishes ever since the series started... with the exception of two incidents: one was when she decided to sing at the end of Episode 3, and the other was when she entered Miss Macross. Those two things she ended up doing for herself, not because it'd help Alto (as singing to fight the Vajra does), or because someone wants her to do it (her handlers/managers since her career took off). She does need to grow up... and fast, if she wants to have a chance with Alto, who'll walk off without a clue to her feelings or his own if she doesn't. Even if he turns her down.. he'll have to turn her down because he knows how she feels, and can't accept those feelings, and she'll be able to move on.
Now we need to see what Leon and Grace will do next episode, since it looks like Galaxy's about to take a more active role in their plan to rule all of known space--harness the Vajra. That and Klein... looks kinda naked there.
Ozma and Cathy do make a horribly cute couple, though - I guess this means her engagement with Leon is off?
Bah, Leon showing his evil grin...I hope he really get squash by a vajra soon.
I wonder what's gonna happen to Cathy...it don't look good for her and her dad in the next episode. As for the triangle-ship, seems to be swinging here & there and then rides the merry-go-round...whatever, it's still leaning towards SxA. I do like the Ranka & Brera sibling bonding moments in this episode though. Cute.
Tsuchiro
2008-08-14, 23:49
Bah, Leon showing his evil grin...I hope he really get squash by a vajra soon.
I wonder what's gonna happen to Cathy...it don't look good for her and her dad in the next episode. As for the triangle-ship, seems to be swinging here & there and then rides the merry-go-round...whatever, it's still leaning towards SxA. I do like the Ranka & Brera sibling bonding moments in this episode though. Cute.
you see ozma triping leon's peons next episode :o
adult relationship? they aren't even over 18/21...
How could she know sheryl will be with Alto ?
Alto and Sheryl are both 17, in the world of Frontier, that makes them legal adults. Ranka on the other hand, is 16, which makes her a child. Never mind Ranka looks younger after each passing episode.
But this is obvious, no ? Alto broke the heart in the sky with the cupid-arrow...
And Alto did it while thinking of Sheryl this whole time, good job.
She misleaded it alright but when she saw Alto and Sheryl wrap around how could she take it for a behaviour between friends ?
And score one for self-denial!
- Tak
Stretch5920
2008-08-15, 00:54
How come the Sheryl fanboys are more childish than Ranka?
anyway I thought this ep was pretty average. Bit late for the whole "OMG HE'S HUGGING THE OTHER GIRL" routine isn't it?
Dissapointed in Ranka ditching the parade.
Haesslich
2008-08-15, 00:56
How come the Sheryl fanboys are more childish than Ranka?
Because that's the nature of shipers, that's why. Basically, they want the other rival to 'die' so the 'true match' will take place. Never mind that Alto's yet to even decide whether he likes Sheryl or Ranka 'that way' - and one of them he sees like his mother, which means he loved his mother in a less-than-innocent way, or he sees Sheryl as inevitably dying and leaving him alone. Ranka... well, he's yet to decide if he likes her as a younger sister or not.
How come the Sheryl fanboys are more childish than Ranka?
And how come Ranka fanboys n' girls are more rabid in their support of that particular path of the shipping to the point that they are blind and oblivious to facts? I mean look at you, starting a personal attack already.
Not that I care much, because that is the nature of shipping wars.
But Ranka is a child, she is drawn as one, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and that will probably never change.
- Tak
magnuskn
2008-08-15, 00:59
We aren't in a flea market you know, I have a nickname... Looks like what I said about people who don't like when someone share an opposite but real opinion is true.... ;)
No fleamarket? Actually, when talking about Ranka...
Because of what ? It's what I said previously... she step in so it's not good for sheryl
You should be more fair and telling what you really think : " she is a pest because she came at the wrong time..." which in addition has nothing to do with her character... if not I don't now how you could like her before ( in a likeable way) and hate her now because she was running up on the stairs for seeing alto :uhoh:
I liked her before because she is generally a nice person. I hate ( and take "hate" with a grain of salt, this is an animated show after all. Real hate is reserved for real bad persons ) her now because the contrast between her crush on Alto and how Sheryl loves him, and tries to protect him from the bad news of what happened to her is so big by now, that I really canīt stand it anymore.
Damn that Kawamori. Guy makes me feel all concerned and sad about Sheryl. :upset:
Ok I understood.... I am all wrong... you indeed hate her because she she ran up these stairs :heh:
I would have appreciated some sort of subtletly, what can I say. "Alto, Alto, Alto, Altoooo! What?!? Uwaaaaah!" isnīt subtle of any sort. Also, annoyed as hell that we got another random interrupt to any development on the relationship front happening.
this is disturbing for her future thought.... I don't know how this awesome sheryl can ends up with alto if Kawamori knew since the beginning she was the obvious winner... This doesn't look like a real surprise for me but hey i was wrong for the stairs maybe i am here too...
I don't wish sheryl to die seriously she is an interesting character so I hope you can see how Ranka can be one too... I hope....:uhoh:
Ranka by herself is okay... but compared to Sheryl there just nothing there.
And if the triangle was clear at all at this point, I wouldnīt be so upset.
Although pictures like these give me hope that Kawamori isnīt seriously planning to go through with Alto X Ranka:
http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/Macross/Macross%20Frontier%20-%2019%20-%20Large%2020.jpg
I mean, really? We really, really are to take that serious as a revelation about whom you love?
mike_s_6
2008-08-15, 01:01
@Stretch5920
I bet you haven't seen the worst of the Ranka fans either :) It just so happens that there are more Sheryl fans, and let's say 10% of the Sheryl fans and Ranka fans are vocal, joke-loving, frank internet people. That means there'd be more Sheryl fans who are what you describe as "childish" since there are more Sheryl fans to start off with, but it just represents a proportion.
Try to read the threads of episodes where Ranka is on top of the triangle. I've seen horrible posts by people and blocked them, and I feel like this forum has been more friendly ever since!
Stretch5920
2008-08-15, 01:07
And how come Ranka fanboys n' girls are more rabid in their support of that particular path of the shipping to the point that they are blind and oblivious to facts?
You answered your own question. They are fanboys.
I mean look at you,
I don't consider myself a fanboy of any character in this show, and if I HAD to pick one character to fanboy over, it would be Ozma.
starting a personal attack already.
People being childish need to be told, they won't recognise it on their own. ;)
But Ranka is a child, she is drawn as one, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and that will probably never change.
meh. Women with small bodies/boobs are just as much fun to play with as voluptuous women. That probably sounds pedo, but that's not the way I mean it.
@Stretch5920
I bet you haven't seen the worst of the Ranka fans either :)
Well I guess that's probably true. I didn't start coming here until around the halfway mark because the show was I was losing interest in the show so I checked out the spoilers to see if anything interested me. Anyway I have seen a few posts by that ani_d guy/girl and was like WHOAH dude? are we watching the same show? But I wouldn't call him childish, just a little misguided.
People being childish need to be told, they won't recognise it on their own. ;)
Fangirling/fanboying is being childish how? It's just entertainment, and obviously, love triangles are written to evoke such feelings. The characters are written in such a way that most people will root for one and hope the other will fail. And the writers obviously expect that kind of reaction.
Just go to youtube if you want to see some childish comments from Ranka fans...but what's the point? Why bother commenting on the fans? What do you want to achieve by calling a side immature or not?
Anyway, that episode reminds me why I dislike Ranka so much. The feminist in me rages.
TwilightHack
2008-08-15, 02:13
I thought it was a pretty good episode. I'm curious as to what type of Vajra Ai-kun will become... and if it'll have more immunities than the current.
But this is what I wanted to touch on. Ranka's whole "it's all about Alto-kun" trip irked me more than usual... Honestly, it's probably because shes reverted back to what she was before! Imo the only way for her to mature as a person is for Alto to not be in the picture.
And once again I found myself admiring Sheryl's determination.
How come the Sheryl fanboys are more childish than Ranka?
anyway I thought this ep was pretty average. Bit late for the whole "OMG HE'S HUGGING THE OTHER GIRL" routine isn't it?
Dissapointed in Ranka ditching the parade.
You know, I think its quite amusing the way you get your jollies off.
Also it's quite ironic the way you call others childish when you yourself make posts that add very little to discussion, if any at all. On top of that most of your posts about Macross are some very off the wall senseless comments. Are those comments supposed to come off as jokes?
If so... well they aren't funny.
---
Anyways, how many people here come to the Episode discussion thread and discuss what they see as opposed to what they can understand? This seems to be the case with a lot of people making assumptions because they don't have subs.
Tsuchiro
2008-08-15, 02:17
Anyways, how many people here come to the Episode discussion thread and discuss what they see as opposed to what they can understand? This seems to be the case with a lot of people making assumptions because they don't have subs.
ackem subs ftw! :rolleyes:
I thought it was a pretty good episode. I'm curious as to what type of Vajra Ai-kun will become... and if it'll have more immunities than the current.
Personally, I thought it was Ai in the audience (Not a bunch of Vajra) since you see those "eggs" hatching and it bears a similar shape towards the one we see in the crowd. Made sense to me kinda, only vajra we have seen so far that's tame/not-rabid towards other humans was Ai.
Although somehow, expecting to see Ai being the pivoting point in making Vajra not going ballistic on frontier or being blown up By Luca or Leon for some plot devicial reason.
On a side note, was half-way expecting Ranka to walk in front of a sniper bullet but then the scene after made me think "How Typical" :heh:
KiraYamatoFan
2008-08-15, 02:43
I'm surprised she only realized it by now :uhoh: Meh, so much for slowly become mature and independent... She's back to starting point again. Does Ranka ever have any thought that isn't involving Alto?
Now I can't say singing is Ranka's hope and dream anymore. That realization makes all her past efforts to become the universal idol seem like a joke. Did she do that for herself or just to impress Alto? Does that mean if she does lose him to Sheryl she'll stop singing altogether? That's so much like DYRL Minmey. I'd love to see Alto slapping the girl awake like Hikaru did :uhoh:
Ranka's problems seem to be so little comparing to Sheryl's. It's a teenager love trouble, not a matter of facing the death and losing everything.
I agree. This is totally ridiculous when I see how Ranka is regressing in that episode. Becoming mature and independent? Let me laugh at that instead. If she was singing just to impress Alto or doing anything for that sole purpose, this would be even more pathetic.
Speaking of her neglecting her obligations as a superstar to the event which was organized for her, that's probably even worse than Minmei already was back then. Ranka might have problems of her own, but it always seems that Alto must be acting as a clutch for her, and (please!) I can't stand the too old-fashioned theme of the frail princess waiting for the white knight to save her.
If Ranka loses Alto to Sheryl, I would die to see how she'd react and you can bet on the money as well: I WANT THE SLAP on Ranka like Hikaru nailed Minmei in order to wake her up.:heh::heh::p
Kaoru Chujo
2008-08-15, 02:47
I enjoyed the episode, but I'm coming to think that it isn't a matter of Alto being ambivalent but of the writers stringing us along and making the character inconsistent and unreal. The inconsistency probably goes for Ranka, too.
The scene at the end was fairly effective, especially Ranka's confusion, but for me this is starting to resemble the worst aspects of Code Geass, with a convoluted plot just designed to get the characters into dramatic situations, whether they make much sense or not.
I personally like Ranka, for her innocence and her feeling for Alto and the awful role she has been thrust into. The one thing that might explain her emotional weakness in this episode is the terrible things she has had to endure recently. She is not trained to fly in battle. Alto is like her emotional lifeline in this weird world. But if you don't like moe, then she won't work for you.
I feel pity and admiration for Sheryl, but I don't much like her. She has been too aggressive and sneaky for me. Ranka's character is purer. I am thrilled with both their seiyuus, however. Endou Aya, in particular, is a revelation.
Maybe Alto will end up back on stage as an okama, entirely without female companionship, lol. He seems to me to react with more romantic feeling to Ranka than to Sheryl, but not by much. I sometimes think he's just being nice to all. Sheryl keeps throwing herself at him, but he seems to keep reacting with kindness and comfort, rather than either lust or love. I dread next week for what he might say or do to shatter either S or R. Or both.
The long run up the stairs with Ranka was certainly none too subtle, but the point is to create feeling in the viewer, and it worked on me. Sick dread, for the most part, lol. I'm sorry some people can't relate to her feelings for Alto. But I like a lot of shoujo, so it all seems right to me. I always think people make a mistake when they judge anime as if it were real life. Not by a hundred miles.
KiraYamatoFan
2008-08-15, 02:55
Damn that Kawamori. Guy makes me feel all concerned and sad about Sheryl. :upset:
You're not the only one. I hate when my favorite character is put into a life and death situation such as this.
I would have appreciated some sort of subtletly, what can I say. "Alto, Alto, Alto, Altoooo! What?!? Uwaaaaah!" isnīt subtle of any sort. Also, annoyed as hell that we got another random interrupt to any development on the relationship front happening.
Since I am a Sheryl x Alto fan as well, I would be glad if this line becomes one more nail to the coffin of any Ranka x Alto relationship. Even if I was neutral, this is utter ridiculous from Ranka if she hopes to catch Alto's attention and get more from him with THAT.:eyebrow:
Although pictures like these give me hope that Kawamori isnīt seriously planning to go through with Alto X Ranka:
http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/Macross/Macross%20Frontier%20-%2019%20-%20Large%2020.jpg
I mean, really? We really, really are to take that serious as a revelation about whom you love?
When I look at this picture, I can't think otherwise than how Ranka is trying only to please Alto rather than taking initiatives for her own sake. That kind of attitude is incompatible with the current situation in Alto's character, who's looking for a meaning in what he does in life. This needs a spark, and Sheryl was the only so far who could bring such spark.
kilroy0097
2008-08-15, 02:59
First I'm surprised at the amount of death wishes for Ranka. Haven't I already told you that she can't die? There are other ways to remove a corner from a love triangle that don't include death. I'm sure something will happen. Perhaps in classic Minmei fashion she will find a new boyfriend or manager (Grace) and get abused and Alto or Ozma will have to come save her.
Second, did anyone really think that Ranka wouldn't act exactly the way she did? She's portrayed as a little girl with a really really big crush on an older boy. How do adolescent females normally act when their crushes don't work out? They cry, sulk and do any number of emotional things. Try to think of this from a adolescent girl stand point. Just try to forget she is only a year or so younger than Sheryl. As I said before, Chinese women gymnastics syndrome.
Thirdly Alto is still a douche. What an idiot. Seriously can they make him regress anymore? Next thing he will be hanging out in arcades and playing with little kid robots. Maybe his voice will regress as well and he will start talking in a high pitched kids voice again.
Of the three characters in the Love Triangle I would rather see Alto fall off a cliff before Ranka. At this point Sheryl can do better and might as well go after Mihail instead. Compete with Klan. At least then we might see some cat fights. ^_^
Manji Midou
2008-08-15, 03:02
l smell a Ranka x Alto coupling ending coming, w00t
TwilightHack
2008-08-15, 03:25
l smell a Ranka x Alto coupling ending coming, w00t
Of course you would!
Heh. It depends on what happens next I suppose. I still support a Sheryl.
kilroy0097
2008-08-15, 03:34
When Sheryl finds a way to get over this virus thing then I suspect she will get a bit more explosive.
I have a feeling that Mihail and Klan will have a big part in finding that cure or at least suppression.
I think Michael's part is over and it's all down to the Klan now.
I hope I'm wrong in some way though :)
Hey so what exactly happens to Ai-Kun?
My new target of death is:Luca!
Zhaozhou
2008-08-15, 04:41
Anyway, that episode reminds me why I dislike Ranka so much. The feminist in me rages.
I am sorry but feminism left you. Current third wave feminism is about surpassing sexual dichotomy.
And then again, what kind of feminism were you in?
Amazon
Anarchist
Black
Chicana
Christian
Cultural
Difference
Eco
Equality
Equity
Fat
Gender
Global
Individualist
Islamic
Jewish
Lesbian
Liberal
Marxist
New
Postcolonial
Postmodern
Pro-life
Radical
Religious
Separatist
Sex-positive
Socialist
Third world
Transfeminism
Womanism
French feminism
I think the most un-feminist thing is exactly the creation and forced compliance of a "female morality", telling woman what is "womanly" and what is "unwomanly". Seems like history is repeating itself.
and one of them he sees like his mother, which means he loved his mother in a less-than-innocent way, or he sees Sheryl as inevitably dying and leaving him alone. Ranka... well, he's yet to decide if he likes her as a younger sister or not.
Really, this kimono theory is crack. :heh:
The room Sheryl was placed in once belonged to Alto's mother, who was placed there due to her frail state. It's a secluded part of the Saotome mansion. So when he goes back to that same room, sees Sheryl braiding her hair exactly the way his mom did, wearing her kimono, of course Alto was gonna think of his mom first before returning to reality.
It's a little sequence to introduce the deceased mother into the picture. Nothing more, nothing less.
magnuskn
2008-08-15, 04:50
I am sorry but feminism left you. Current third wave feminism is about surpassing sexual dichotomy.
And then again, what kind of feminism were you in?
*snip long list*
I think the most un-feminist thing is exactly the creation and forced compliance of a "female morality", telling woman what is "womanly" and what is "unwomanly". Seems like history is repeating itself.
I think she means a modern definition, that a woman shouldnīt make all her decisions dependant on the wishes and desires of some guy. Which is a good definiton, as far as I am concerned. Ranka needs to grow up some.
I am sorry but feminism left you. Current third wave feminism is about surpassing sexual dichotomy.
I think the most un-feminist thing is exactly the creation and forced compliance of a "female morality", telling woman what is "womanly" and what is "unwomanly". Seems like history is repeating itself.
Durrr, going meta again.
Anyway, too bad for you, I have my own principles and my own definition of feminism, so I doubt trying to argue with me on that point would be useful.
In the end, it's my personal choice if I want my female characters to not view a male character as the center of their universe, as well as the answer to all their problems, and same thing with the reverse situation (funny, I just imagined a male character relying on a girl as much as Ranka relies on Alto... yeah, I strangely doubt that would go well with the audience :uhoh: ).
I remember the Ranka who wanted to share her gift (her voice) to the world and to tell as many people as she could that she was there. Kinda sad.
but for me this is starting to resemble the worst aspects of Code Geass, with a convoluted plot just designed to get the characters into dramatic situations, whether they make much sense or not.
So far, CG left more plot holes than actually resolving them. I suspect CG will remain on such a course until 2nd season ends. Compared to that, MF is far easier to understand and perhaps more interesting. It is not perfect, no, but at least the plot is not confusing, certainly nowhere near as convoluted as CG.
I feel pity and admiration for Sheryl, but I don't much like her. She has been too aggressive and sneaky for me. Ranka's character is purer. I am thrilled with both their seiyuus, however. Endou Aya, in particular, is a revelation.
Ranka is pretty sneaky in her own right, except when she does it, she has a facade of innocence to hide behind. Sheryl on the other hand, is simply more straightforward. In fact, I see Sheryl being very aggressive, but sneaky?
- Tak
Zhaozhou
2008-08-15, 07:22
I think she means a modern definition, that a woman shouldnīt make all her decisions dependant on the wishes and desires of some guy. Which is a good definiton, as far as I am concerned. Ranka needs to grow up some.
You are losing the point. It's the one way solution to all troubles that always constitutes the problem. It negates personal differences, transforming people into mindless automatons. The basic idea is that minorities with inferior adaptive behaviours can still be useful in the event things change, so it's unwise trying to conform them.
Aside from this, I am personal against all those people who tell others how to be happy :mad:
The funny thing is that people here also blame Ranka for being egoistic, while Ranka is acting self-less in being dependant. Growing up as you are saying would mean making decisions that benefit you, which is exactly the definition of egoism :eyespin: If I were a computer I would have already blow up :D
Anyway, too bad for you, I have my own principles and my own definition of feminism, so I doubt trying to argue with me on that point would be useful.
In the end, it's my personal choice if I want my female characters to not view a male character as the center of their universe, as well as the answer to all their problems, and same thing with the reverse situation
We are on a public discussion forum. You can't say it's totally unexpected someone is interested in seeing the reasoning that backs up your opinions. When the definition of "childish" has been challenged, I don't think they didn't see it coming.
Too bad for you now I am tsun tsun :mad:
I remember the Ranka who wanted to share her gift (her voice) to the world and to tell as many people as she could that she was there. Kinda sad.
I can't see how it's sad. It's one of the fundamentals of Macross that songs express feelings. The act of singing is not disjointed from personal feelings, so it reflects the fact that Ranka actually loves Alto more than ever.
The only sad thing is that Ranka was doomed to fail :(
Btw, I don't know you but I am lacking my subs :p
kilroy0097
2008-08-15, 08:02
Connor: Basically the rule of thumb here is...
Rosengurtie: Wait, rule of thumb? In the early 1900s it was legal for men to beat their wives, as long as they used a stick no wider than their thumb.
Connor: Well, can't do much damage with that then, can we? Perhaps it should have been a rule of wrist?
- The Boondock Saints (1999)
:)
nanatsusaya
2008-08-15, 08:52
I'm more curious about how Alto is going to comfort crying Ranka. On top of that, does he even know why she is crying? I think he totally does not have to explain his situation with Sheryl to Ranka, unless he's actually less dumb than we think he is and knows of Ranka feeling toward him and that she's upset and jealous that he's with another woman. Or he could ask why she was crying and that could lead to a love confession of Ranka...
"Sheryl and I are just friends, you don't have to worry about her. It's you the one I care about so please don't cry, Ranka." ---> if that's the supposed confirmed feeling in the spoilers of ep 20 then, I swear to God, I'll start shipping RankaxAlto right at the moment he says that because dying or not, my Sheryl doesn't need pity especially from a dumbass who doesn't even know what's better for him. Alto and Ranka could go start their own little world for all I care :eyebrow:
Alto has irked me numerous times because of his wavering attention between two girls and if not for his too good chemistry with Sheryl I'd never care about him. Seeing Alto care for Sheryl in ep 17-19 did ease me a bit, but I hope he wouldn't need her death to realize how much important she was to him.
Why do peoples keep assuming that preview scene was a continuing scene from the last scene in this episode?
Ranka probably got spook by grown up Aikun and need to be comforted. :D
Sorry, need something to cheer me up after a depressing episode.. again ..Thats already 2 weeks in a row T_T
nanatsusaya
2008-08-15, 09:32
Why do peoples keep assuming that preview scene was a continuing scene from the last scene in this episode?
I think it is because Ranka is wearing the same dress. I just hope that Alto wouldn't leave Sheryl behind to chase after Ranka (assuming she would run away, which was most likely :uhoh:)
Sorry, need something to cheer me up after a depressing episode.. again ..Thats already 2 weeks in a row T_T
Only two more eps to endure before Sheryl come back in 'Northern Cross' :( Let's pray that something bad wouldn't happen to her in the upcoming 'Diamond Crevasse' :heh:
BTW, I want Northern Cross ED back :mad:
I think it is because Ranka is wearing the same dress. I just hope that Alto wouldn't leave Sheryl behind to chase after Ranka (assuming she would run away, which was most likely :uhoh:)
I think Sheryl will push Alto to chase after Ranka herself as an convenient excuse to escape from having a good long talk with him, which she was reluctantly persuaded to by Klan to begin with.
kilroy0097
2008-08-15, 09:42
Still waiting for the subs to fill in the gaps I didn't understand in the raw.
Funny observation. Just how small was she as a child if her cell phone was as huge as a large stuffed animal in her hands??? I know I know it was really a stuff animal and not the cell-phone. It would have been funny thought if it was because it would explain why she is so damn tiny next to everyone else.
daimonth
2008-08-15, 09:51
Michaels talk about why he doesnt dare to have a serious relationship draws a nice parallel to Sheryl's rejection of Alto. It's clear that Sheryl planned to remove herself from Altos life and face her death alone. Even though deep down she really wanted to be comforted. Her strong will and invincible persona is both a blessing and a curse. In order to lessen the impact of her eventual death on the one she loves, she has built a hollow shell of strength around herself even though she has been completely ripped to pieces inside.
In the next few episodes we'll see how will Alto finally reach her and how she will put herself together.
Lostdreams
2008-08-15, 10:07
Ok, a lot of things happened in this episode. Biggest thing that happened was that Alto and Sheryl were hugging. That's a good sign. Bad sign, Ranka came in. GTFO Ranka. Not determined sign, in the previews Alto was talking to Ranka. It could mean Ranka I love you, or it could mean Ranka I love Sheryl. In the previews I saw Klan Klan nakey nakey, what's up with that? When Alto looked at Sheryl, he saw his mom. Positive sign. Also, when Alto and the crew were flying, Alto was the one that put the arrow through the heart. I'm confused as to what that could mean? It could mean he puts an arrow through her heart, or he perfects her heart.
I think Sheryl will push Alto to chase after Ranka herself as an convenient excuse to escape from having a good long talk with him, which she was reluctantly persuaded to by Klan to begin with.
I think this will be the case too, but I dont think its because Sheryl wanted to run away.
Although pictures like these give me hope that Kawamori isnīt seriously planning to go through with Alto X Ranka:
http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/Macross/Macross%20Frontier%20-%2019%20-%20Large%2020.jpg
I mean, really? We really, really are to take that serious as a revelation about whom you love?
jruooot Nosebleeding :love::love:
DRYL? not DYRL : Do You Remember Love? eh?
I hope i can see new VF.
Messiah look like zero.
New version from old school blueprint eh?
But still cant match VF-27 and upgrade vajra.
I heard alto use new weapon in future episode.
New weapon they mean is Armored Pack?
You are losing the point. It's the one way solution to all troubles that always constitutes the problem. It negates personal differences, transforming people into mindless automatons. The basic idea is that minorities with inferior adaptive behaviours can still be useful in the event things change, so it's unwise trying to conform them.
Aside from this, I am personal against all those people who tell others how to be happy :mad:
The funny thing is that people here also blame Ranka for being egoistic, while Ranka is acting self-less in being dependant. Growing up as you are saying would mean making decisions that benefit you, which is exactly the definition of egoism :eyespin: If I were a computer I would have already blow up :D
We are on a public discussion forum. You can't say it's totally unexpected someone is interested in seeing the reasoning that backs up your opinions. When the definition of "childish" has been challenged, I don't think they didn't see it coming.
We are in an anime forum. We are allowed to tell Ranka how she should be happy. She's not real. I don't think people are trying to tell her to conform at all. But as a woman it's pretty disgusting to me to have a female lead character be so solely focused on a guy, or anyone really. I don't even think it's anything about feminism at all. Since like the OP said, I would be annoyed if a guy did the same thing. Actually, most would probably call him a crazy stalker if a guy character was so focused on a female. :heh:
The fact that while it's not unexpected that Ranka use Alto as her reason for singing, it's disappointing because it is childish and selfish. Selfish? Because she assumes Alto is going to be right there for her to fill his place as her object of her affection. There is nothing self-less about what is she is doing at all. I guess the big question to me is, if Alto doesn't love her back what then? I guess it's the old character growth through rejection, which could work in her case.
She's childish because she thinks as long as Alto is there making hearts in the sky everything is okay. She doesn't have to face herself or anything else, as long as he's there she can use him as her inspiration. There is nothing wrong with loving him, or using him, but to base everything on one person? It's unfair. I also don't see how making choices that benefit you and you alone is egoism. It's called self respect. Bettering yourself and knowing you can't rely on other people if you want you dreams is part of growing up. Or maybe it's cynicism. My Mom always told me, you can't rely on a man because they either leave you or die. That's why you have to become something on your own and support yourself with only yourself. Maybe I'm using too much real life logic.
It might come down with people wanting different things from the story. Sheryl has always been shown to be more adult of the two. Ranka is more shallow, innocent and I think a Ranka x Alto end would basically be incomplete. It's almost like a cheesy shoujo manga end. Where everyone will be together ~forever~ at the end of High School. Totally unbelievable from an adult standpoint.
I can't see how it's sad. It's one of the fundamentals of Macross that songs express feelings. The act of singing is not disjointed from personal feelings, so it reflects the fact that Ranka actually loves Alto more than ever.
The only sad thing is that Ranka was doomed to fail :(
Btw, I don't know you but I am lacking my subs :p
It's sad for anyone in Macross to not sing for the love of SINGING, but for the love of someone else. Feelings of course matter, but it's always been about the love of singing before anything.
She is dying and doesn't want to burden him ? ....why bothering other people then?
I find it a mean spirited when she did it. Why telling them for after saying " Do not tell Alto" ?
*sighs* As Magnus already said Klan and Michael already knew Sheryl was sick just before Sheryl run into them in the library. If anything they knew more about her condition than Sheryl herself since Grace only said she was dying. Sheryl has told nobody about her sickness and has asked the 2 people who found out to keep quiet about it because she doesn't want to burden the person she loves.
You are pissed because she goes into the lead in the love triangle and Sheryl is left behind now because the only way she can approch Alto is because of her illness.
What rubbish is this? It was Sheryl's illness in the first place that allowed Ranka to even get back into this "contest" and as 15 showed they were on equal footing in that episode. None of the gains Sheryl has made in the last few episodes were her using her illness as a way to do so, she's been trying to distance herself from Alto in the last few episodes after she found out the true nature of her sickness.
Alto will obviously chase after Ranka out of guilty but she will go with Brera ... Then will start the rivalry between Alto and Brera with a unrequited love for Sheryl.
This is what I think after reading Nakamura sentence :the Sheryl x Alto end the most popular seems unlikely to happen because it will not be surprising.
If your above scenario plays out how is a Ranka ending in any way what's so ever a surprise? You do realize a significant portion of the Sheryl fanbase thinks she won't win? Also if you look at anime as a whole the Sheryl type character hardly wins these triangles, romances with only a few exceptions.
You should seriously asks yourself how you didn't see it coming ( that Ranka had equal chances to end with Alto like Sheryl)you didn't. You only had eyes for your Sheryl QUEEN, it's so impossible for you that Ranka can also win against sheryl.....
And Ranka fans are different? Ranka fans run riot in the first 4 episodes threads, they acted like this triangle was like Shana's and that Sheryl was an insignificant third wheel. Than Star Date turned the tide in terms of the triangle as well as the fanbase and Ranka fans were moaning and bitching crap like the following.
Sheryl is a slut!
DIE SHERYL DIE
How could Alto betray Ranka like this?
I can't believe Alto went with that slut Sheryl
It wasn't like this just on this forum, it was like this nearly everywhere. Must be nice having a short memory hey?
You should ask yourself why you couldn't predict why the compositor painted in episode 19 sheryl like a not so cool character, the role of the bad woman like a lot of anime or movie who steals the other girl's guy ( the scene in this episode looked like that(even if you claim that it's not that they made it look like that even some here saw this , they want to put sheryl as the one between the main couple...
Even though the notion is utterly ridiculous I'll play along. To combine this with an earlier point, if Sheryl's just put in to be the 3rd wheel to get in the way of the main couple than how wouldn't a Sheryl ending be a surprise. You wanna clarify your situation on this?
Also for neutral viewers it might be hard to place the woman who is dying in the bad guy position compared to the naive schoolgirl with the idiotic school girl crush who blew off her fans and acted like an immature idiot. But hey that's just my opinion.
and when someone disagree "neg rep " or " how dare you doubt in our sheryl Sama " ? what is that ?
lol if you don't think ranka fans neg rep people too...
Sleepy100
2008-08-15, 14:35
Well, I guess we now know why Alto keeps his hair long.
Edit: As for who did the sweep kick, It's Ozma on Leon. Cookies to whoever predicted that Howard Glass would be targeted for assassination. I kind of thought that but didn't think that the NUNS military would be involved in the assassination. I never thought they would go for a Coup De'tat.
No fleamarket? Actually, when talking about Ranka...
OK.......
I liked her before because she is generally a nice person. I hate ( and take "hate" with a grain of salt, this is an animated show after all. Real hate is reserved for real bad persons ) her now because the contrast between her crush on Alto and how Sheryl loves him, and tries to protect him from the bad news of what happened to her is so big by now, that I really canīt stand it anymore.
Damn that Kawamori. Guy makes me feel all concerned and sad about Sheryl. :upset:
I already said it's quite impressive to see how she can keep this face of the strong woman in front of alto knowing perfectly she loves him and wants his support even thought she can't admit it and don't want to admit it.. I can't deny it.
If lying to yourself can make you keep your composure.... well this is her character.
The contrast between the two is the way they show their feelings.
Of course Ranka is in fond of him, when she sings she thinks of him, the same for when she is Brera unlike sheryl who shows nothing but her " I am Sheryl Nome" blah blah blah.
It's annoying to see Ranka saying " alto kun"... this is true but " watashi wa Sheryl Nome...." all the time ... :eyespin:
Sheryl doesn't want to tell him about her disease and you're all WOWWWWW she is amazing, she truly loves him unlike Ranka.... Maybe she doesn't want to burden him and without doubt here evryone can tell she loves him BUT the contrast between her crush on alto and the love of sheryl ?
Ranka did go to Galia 4 to save him no ( I don't know many school girl who will do that for their crush thought ;))? She singed at the zentradi mall without even knowing he would be there., no( He did support her to sing but she didn't start for him but for telling people she exists ) no? It's not like all she did just turned around Alto. I read some of you say she doesn't sing for singing but just for alto.... What will sheryl do in episode 22 ?.....
I would have appreciated some sort of subtletly, what can I say. "Alto, Alto, Alto, Altoooo! What?!? Uwaaaaah!" isnīt subtle of any sort. Also, annoyed as hell that we got another random interrupt to any development on the relationship front happening.
I agree with the Alto kun alto kun.... well honestly the most hilarious of this repeated sentence for me is in episode 14 when she sings in front of the Zentradi......... Her " Alto kun...." was really funny. BUT :
Like I said " Watashi wa sheryl Nome " is not better....
And for the interrupt by Ranka when sheryl is with Alto, should I remind you when Ranka enrolled in Mihoshi Academy and has finally her chance to spend more time with Alto........Sheryl made her big entrance and broke that possibilty in piece. Same for his birthday, Sheryl went with him...... Ranka got the flight in the sky with alto.... They were even then.......until episode 19.
Ranka by herself is okay... but compared to Sheryl there just nothing there.
And if the triangle was clear at all at this point, I wouldnīt be so upset.
I agree but some fan can make it more explosive ? :heh
Although pictures like these give me hope that Kawamori isnīt seriously planning to go through with Alto X Ranka:
http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/Macross/Macross%20Frontier%20-%2019%20-%20Large%2020.jpg
I mean, really? We really, really are to take that serious as a revelation about whom you love?
this is too easy... : http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/2065/anime0004zo1.png
The pix you showed was just her resolution to measure up of the love she devote to Alto....
Looks like you like using this not so justified explanation, or make say something which wasn't by someone :
Alto and Sheryl are both 17, in the world of Frontier, that makes them legal adults. Ranka on the other hand, is 16, which makes her a child. Never mind Ranka looks younger after each passing episode.
The adult age is diferent in come country but 21 or 18 are the most well know
After, in frontier OK Sheryl And alto have the same age but how do you know they are adults ?
Sheryl really looks younger in 19 than 18 in some scene but not all. The scene in the stairs was the worst yes.
I said this : But this is obvious, no ? Alto broke the heart in the sky with the cupid-arrow...
And Alto did it while thinking of Sheryl this whole time, good job.
Looks like you want to pick some words but not the whole sentence. .........Trying to speak at my place ? :uhoh:
the whole sentence was: they are trying to build up Ranka sympathy points." This is what I'm seeing too....But this is obvious, no ? Alto broke the heart in the sky with the cupid-arrow... She misleaded it alright but when she saw Alto and Sheryl wrap around how could she take it for a behaviour between friends ?
You totally change the the meaning of what I said, but :
GOOD JOB
She misleaded it alright but when she saw Alto and Sheryl wrap around how could she take it for a behaviour between friends ?
And score one for self-denial!
she misleaded the arrow( again, you just took the part of the sentence which was fine with you)Alto clearly didn't do it for her but she hoped.... from her angle of view, how could she know they were not in fact so lovey dovey.... WE know what could have happenned not her....
You're indeed strong to give point in a negative way(Want to suggest me a sport ? ........ :)) ......but looks like you're more sportive than me .:uhoh:
mike_s_6
2008-08-15, 15:21
Ok, a lot of things happened in this episode. Biggest thing that happened was that Alto and Sheryl were hugging. That's a good sign. Bad sign, Ranka came in. GTFO Ranka. Not determined sign, in the previews Alto was talking to Ranka. It could mean Ranka I love you, or it could mean Ranka I love Sheryl. In the previews I saw Klan Klan nakey nakey, what's up with that? When Alto looked at Sheryl, he saw his mom. Positive sign. Also, when Alto and the crew were flying, Alto was the one that put the arrow through the heart. I'm confused as to what that could mean? It could mean he puts an arrow through her heart, or he perfects her heart.
I'm having some doubts on why they were hugging, it could be that Sheryl just felt weak again and Alto caught her. And I sure wish subs could explain this better, but I think they'll just leave the explanation in the next episodes.
Do you guys know what the scene reminded me of? Escaflowne, when Millerna kisses Allen and Hitomi was watching. Hitomi was going up a flight of stairs before the incident, right?
As for the arrow and heart thing... Alto puts an arrow in Michael's heart. That's my interpretation. :D j/k
Also, probably the second time I'm going to say this since my expectations are not that high anyway - the animation quality went another all-time low. Where is the budget going? Aren't there enough DVD, Blu-Ray, CD, and other merchandise sales to cover up for budget holes?
magnuskn
2008-08-15, 15:40
OK.......
You evidently havenīt read that blog entry of hers? :D
Posted by Ickem in the character blogs:
Read it and weep.
2008-07-08
Title: I was bitten!
Uwaan! (The is a "nooooo" that is filled with moe-ness)
I got bitten! I was bitten! Damn you, hated "pa"!!
Why does it itch so much when you're bitten by a "pa". (;; )
On top of that it was right by my collar bone.
The timing of this is terrible since I have to wear a tube top for a photo shoot tomorrow... (I'm not sure how a tube top would stay on her chest considering she has nothing to anchor it too.)
...I'll ask the makeup artist to make it disappear!
with all their power!
I hear that "pa" are attracted to green things that move lately.
Wait, does that mean the culprit is my hair!?
Q1
(date unclear)
Ranka did go to Galia 4 to save him no ( I don't know many school girl who will do that for their crush thought ;))? She singed at the zentradi mall without even knowing he would be there., no( He did support her to sing but she didn't start for him but for telling people she exists ) no? It's not like all she did just turned around Alto. I read some of you say she doesn't sing for singing but just for alto.... What will sheryl do in episode 22 ?.....
The generic school girl with a crush doesnīt have access to military equipment like Ranka did in episode 12.
And, yeah, she knew he was at the mall, she specifically brings that up again in episode 15, when she mentioned that seeing his paper plane gave her the strength to sing.
The adult age is diferent in come country but 21 or 18 are the most well know
After, in frontier OK Sheryl And alto have the same age but how do you know they are adults ?
Ozma told Ranka that sheīd be an adult in one year, so 16 should be the age of majority on Frontier.
ok ranka and sheryl camps CALM yourselves
here is my prediction
Alto x Sheryl then Sheryl bites the dust and oh, look only 2 left XD
problem solved
(im a sheryl fan, i want her to LIVE!)
magnuskn
2008-08-15, 16:02
Y'know... I had some really salient insight about Sheryl of some magnitude. Then, before I proceeded to add it to the Romance thread, I saw Seifalls last post and responded to it. After I finished that, I had totally forgotten whatever great insight it was.
So, DAMN YOU SEIFALL! DAMN YOU TO ALL HELL! <shakes fist>
:p
*edit* Ah, got it again. It wasnīt only about Sheryl alone, but about the triangle. Iīll post it in the romance thread.
The generic school girl with a crush doesnīt have access to military equipment like Ranka did in episode 12.
Flower Girl might, military equipment or no. :heh:
Lostdreams
2008-08-15, 16:33
I'm having some doubts on why they were hugging, it could be that Sheryl just felt weak again and Alto caught her. And I sure wish subs could explain this better, but I think they'll just leave the explanation in the next episodes.
Do you guys know what the scene reminded me of? Escaflowne, when Millerna kisses Allen and Hitomi was watching. Hitomi was going up a flight of stairs before the incident, right?
As for the arrow and heart thing... Alto puts an arrow in Michael's heart. That's my interpretation. :D j/k
Also, probably the second time I'm going to say this since my expectations are not that high anyway - the animation quality went another all-time low. Where is the budget going? Aren't there enough DVD, Blu-Ray, CD, and other merchandise sales to cover up for budget holes?
I don't like the connection to Escaflowne. It means Sheryl will lose, but it also means Ranka won't win. But still, I hate that connection
magnuskn
2008-08-15, 16:49
I don't like the connection to Escaflowne. It means Sheryl will lose, but it also means Ranka won't win. But still, I hate that connection
Apples and Oranges. Allen and Van are very different characters to Ranka and Sheryl.
*sighs* As Magnus already said Klan and Michael already knew Sheryl was sick just before Sheryl run into them in the library. If anything they knew more about her condition than Sheryl herself since Grace only said she was dying. Sheryl has told nobody about her sickness and has asked the 2 people who found out to keep quiet about it because she doesn't want to burden the person she loves.
OK they found out, she told them to keep quiet..... FOR the person she loves .
She isn't prideful anymore but a pure lover....
You're right but it's not the fact she didn't tell him that bother like I said with magnuskun but how she pretends to not being bother by that in front of him with a light change of face in front of them like it's OK to be pitiful with them but not in front in front of Alto.... Double face ? The way you come at she is so in love that she don't want to hurt him.... without even to say she is unfair with herself is surprising.
So she's right, for you ? She went to look for him for telling him the truth so they made her realize she isn't in fact trying to not hurt him but lying to herself...
What rubbish is this? It was Sheryl's illness in the first place that allowed Ranka to even get back into this "contest" and as 15 showed they were on equal footing in that episode. None of the gains Sheryl has made in the last few episodes were her using her illness as a way to do so, she's been trying to distance herself from Alto in the last few episodes after she found out the true nature of her sickness.
It was Sheryl's illness in the first place that allowed Ranka to even get back into this "contest" and as 15 showed they were on equal footing in that episode.
OK
None of the gains Sheryl has made in the last few episodes were her using her illness as a way to do so, she's been trying to distance herself from Alto in the last few episodes after she found out the true nature of her sickness.
I disagree I didn't say she was using her illness but that her illness was the reason which......., and I were talking about since episode 16 , because of her illness she met with alto several of times.
In episode 16 : Sheryl sees Grace and Ranka in a newscast and sneaks out of the hospital to find Alto. She collapsed so alto picked her on his quarter , right ?
IIn episode 18 : Sheryl ends up walking alone in the rain searching for Alto when she collapses on the sidewalk due to her sickness... enough Explicit ...
In episode 19 : Alto sneaks into the Satome Estate to visit Sheryl...because he saw her before on the rain completely KO due to her disease ....
You can tell me all you want about how she wouldn't use it as an excuse and it's right but this a a fact, her disease is the main reason which made her be in a closest relationship with Alto.
If your above scenario plays out how is a Ranka ending in any way what's so ever a surprise? You do realize a significant portion of the Sheryl fanbase thinks she won't win? Also if you look at anime as a whole the Sheryl type character hardly wins these triangles, romances with only a few exceptions.
I'm talking about what will most likely happen. But yo do not think like me right ?
Alto will share more time whith Sheryl in the next episode and maybe they will show us some proof in a possible Sheryl and alto ending( Like a kiss or something which include not a repulsive reaction from alto).
If they do it you agree with me that the Alto and Ranka pair is dead and buried, no ?
But there is also the main plot with the vajra and Brera.
No one but Grace knows about his identity... After what happenned in this episode they can't let her be like that , they're aware that she give off repel, disdain not only because of her body but also because of her character which they know it, is caught like an immature one who only thing about alto.
Moreover when everybody will think Ranka is no more than a sister for alto because Sheryl made her move and they're( for sheryl fan) the perfect couple.... Brera will step in Ranka's life (vajra, relationship..). You expect Alto to do nothing ?
They clearly said alto will have to react when he will find out about Brera.
But what does it have to be with him if her brother is still alive ? Brera is her bodyguard, why making alto acts to protect Ranka? What about sheryl?
Would you not find it surprising that Alto comes back to protect her even thought they showed us he will not let Sheryl....
I'm not saying this will happen because this is pure speculation and i was just answering your question.
The fact is for me a Sheryl and Alto end is not a bit surprising because to repeat the story is nothing new...
I'm sure nor the altox Ranka end neither the Sherylx Alto end can satisfy completely this surprising end.
One end may be more surprising for me and will be totally expected for you obviously so this must be something else which has nothing to do with the romance....
And Ranka fans are different? Ranka fans run riot in the first 4 episodes threads, they acted like this triangle was like Shana's and that Sheryl was an insignificant third wheel. Than Star Date turned the tide in terms of the triangle as well as the fanbase and Ranka fans were moaning and bitching crap like the following.
Sheryl is a slut!
DIE SHERYL DIE
How could Alto betray Ranka like this?
I can't believe Alto went with that slut Sheryl
It wasn't like this just on this forum, it was like this nearly everywhere. Must be nice having a short memory hey?
OK... I don't know about what each said but if they were so vociferous you for sure can explain their disappearance ? :eyebrow:
Even though the notion is utterly ridiculous I'll play along. To combine this with an earlier point, if Sheryl's just put in to be the 3rd wheel to get in the way of the main couple than how wouldn't a Sheryl ending be a surprise. You wanna clarify your situation on this?
It must be pretty disturbing for you, if not, I don't know why you would ask me the same question ....
Also for neutral viewers it might be hard to place the woman who is dying in the bad guy position compared to the naive schoolgirl with the idiotic school girl crush who blew off her fans and acted like an immature idiot. But hey that's just my opinion.
That's your opinion. Well at this level you can also tell me how the woman who is dying can end up with a living person( knowing this is not a shoujo or soap opera(which is here possible) ,we aren't in romeo and juliet here)) unless you think she will not die at the end which discredit yourself one your " it might be hard to place the woman who is dying in the bad guy position compared to the naive schoolgirl with the idiotic school girl crush who blew off her fans and acted like an immature idiot." .....
lol if you don't think ranka fans neg rep people too...
I agree but there is doing it and writing it ...
OK... I don't know about what each said but if they were so vociferous you for sure can explain their disappearance ? :eyebrow:
I thought that part itself is pretty obvious. After all, just look at the favorite character poll, compare the numbers, and there you have it.
Ranka fans were hit by pressure, plain and simple. Bottom line, there are far more Sheryl fans than Ranka ones. Regardless of their position on the shipping wars, that itself is a fact.
- Tak
Dark Wing
2008-08-15, 20:11
Oh wow...just wow...I leave the forums for a few days and come back to a war zone...I mean really were did all the sudden dislike come from?
mike_s_6
2008-08-15, 20:13
OK... I don't know about what each said but if they were so vociferous you for sure can explain their disappearance ? :eyebrow:
That's their choice to disappear, for whatever reason. That doesn't change the fact that they posted nasty in the other threads. One could only guess why they're no longer posting. I thought I just don't see them since I blocked them from my view.
The reason Sheryl fans are in full force right now is because we see that she's finally starting to get back into the story, and is still graceful in doing so. And more and more fans are getting tired of Ranka's high school crush + plain voice + cute face (yes, I'm looking at that screenshot in this episode where she looks like a near-exploding balloon) formula.
So my answer is, no, Westlo probably can't explain their disappearance. Only one of the Ranka fans before who had twisted and turned facts and said mean things could explain why they suddenly stopped. And I'm glad that the Ranka fans I see around seem to be more civil in discussions :)
Oh wow...just wow...I leave the forums for a few days and come back to a war zone...I mean really were did all the sudden dislike come from?
Sudden? The dislike had been brewing, you just came back while it boiled ;)
- Tak
lone_wolf
2008-08-15, 20:14
Oh wow...just wow...I leave the forums for a few days and come back to a war zone...I mean really were did all the sudden dislike come from?
I think a fraction of this irritability is just from waiting for the next episode which is rather painful. :heh:
--Lone Wolf
一匹狼
I think a fraction of this irritability is just from waiting for the next episode which is rather painful. :heh:
--Lone Wolf
一匹狼
You said it, and as the Queen's sole persona on Earth, my pain (while waiting) cannot be described by mere words alone.
- Tak
MaiHikari
2008-08-15, 21:16
Forgot to post my reaction to the ep:
I would rather hear the conversation between Alto and Sheryl leading up to the embrace even if it's just ["Alto, atashi...atashi wa...Alto no koto.." *faints*], than to see Ranka running up the stairs screaming Alto-kun x 3.
How could everyone else be so insightful of Sheryl's feelings toward Alto but Alto himself isn't? Mikhail had to tell him over and over again to clearly pick between the two. It comes to a point where someone needs to spell it out for him in simple Japanese with diagrams to illustrate. But even then, he might act surprised, but still didn't get it.
My annoyance of Ranka has grown tremendously in this episode. Just when I thought she has grown a bit, she giggles hysterically. Just when I thought she's thinking very hard about her feelings, her face lights up like a puppy about to get a treat. Whatever growth there is in store for Ranka is looong overdue. Someone needs to slap her back to the real world. She needs to stop living in her own head.
Haesslich
2008-08-15, 23:43
Really, this kimono theory is crack. :heh:
The room Sheryl was placed in once belonged to Alto's mother, who was placed there due to her frail state. It's a secluded part of the Saotome mansion. So when he goes back to that same room, sees Sheryl braiding her hair exactly the way his mom did, wearing her kimono, of course Alto was gonna think of his mom first before returning to reality.
It's a little sequence to introduce the deceased mother into the picture. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sheryl doesn't look very much like Alto in that kimono, which is why I'm kinda wondering about that. He could see Sheryl in his mother's kimono and think "wait, that's mom's..." but to 'see' her in Sheryl feels kinda fishy. Besides, all they had to do to show Alto's mom was have him look at her photo, or have Sheryl do it, rather than superimpose Alto's mom over Sheryl.
Incidentally, I think shippers on BOTH sides need to calm down, put their weapons on 'safe' or jump off bridges. Just saying.
Besides, if Alto chooses not to choose, then they're both likely to ditch him. I advocate this position, since Alto's yet to show he's really worth the effort for EITHER girl.
^ Because Sheryl is wearing Alto's mum's kimono and staying in her room.
>.>
Stay calm? I would, but I have no facepalm credit left .. and besides, I dont want to write long posts .. I hate typing essays :D
Haesslich
2008-08-16, 00:36
^ Because Sheryl is wearing Alto's mum's kimono and staying in her room.
>.>
Stay calm? I would, but I have no facepalm credit left .. and besides, I dont want to write long posts .. I hate typing essays :D
.. and she looks nothing like Alto. It's like, if I caught someone in my Mom's room wearing a terry robe, I should automatically see her as 'Mom' and not say 'hey, what the fuck are you doing there, wearing Mom's robe?" See the difference? ;)
The latter's a normal response to someone wearing your mother's clothing. The former's a sign of an attachment which borders on unnatural, or else a sign that they remind you of your mother... which usually isn't a good thing for a relationship, unless the person has unresolved Oedipal feelings.
KiraYamatoFan
2008-08-16, 00:59
The reason Sheryl fans are in full force right now is because we see that she's finally starting to get back into the story, and is still graceful in doing so. And more and more fans are getting tired of Ranka's high school crush + plain voice + cute face (yes, I'm looking at that screenshot in this episode where she looks like a near-exploding balloon) formula.
So my answer is, no, Westlo probably can't explain their disappearance. Only one of the Ranka fans before who had twisted and turned facts and said mean things could explain why they suddenly stopped. And I'm glad that the Ranka fans I see around seem to be more civil in discussions :)
Good post.
I've been around with the idea that Sheryl is a better match for Alto since they met, and I had nothing against Ranka. But this time, I am fired up for the reasons you mentioned. I can't stand the idea of Ranka's puppy love on Alto any longer as it gets more ridiculous with time. The next time they bring Ranka's face like that near-exploding baloon again, I'll bring the needle for the occasion.:heh::heh:
Meanwhile, Sheryl really knows how to do things big for any scene she's in. I can't wait for the moment she comes back and see Ranka totally off-stride.
Needle?
Drill my dear friend.. bring a drill that can pierce the heaven! :D
.. and she looks nothing like Alto. It's like, if I caught someone in my Mom's room wearing a terry robe, I should automatically see her as 'Mom' and not say 'hey, what the fuck are you doing there, wearing Mom's robe?" See the difference? ;)
Haesslich, Alto saw Sheryl wearing his mom's kimono, staying in her room, tying her hair the same way his mum did. When he opens the door, the first thing he saw was the splitting image of his mum before he realized it was just Sheryl. It was a random moment, a little tidbit of Alto's mum that was nicely fed to us. Alto had never once saw Sheryl as his mother, and I'll stop here before I get into a discussion about Alto's views on Sheryl. ;) You might have your own ideas on how to execute this little moment, but the series chose to do it differently, it's as simple as that. :p The issue is never brought up again, and yet... I see people all around making a big fuss over it. :heh:
Haesslich
2008-08-16, 01:20
Haesslich, Alto saw Sheryl wearing his mom's kimono, staying in her room, tying her hair the same way his mum did. When he opens the door, the first thing he saw was the splitting image of his mum before he realized it was just Sheryl. It was a random moment, a little tidbit of Alto's mum that was nicely fed to us. Alto had never once saw Sheryl as his mother, and I'll stop here before I get into a discussion about Alto's views on Sheryl. ;) You might have your own ideas on how to execute this little moment, but the series chose to do it differently, it's as simple as that. :p The issue is never brought up again, and yet... I see people all around making a big fuss over it. :heh:
... her hair's so pink that it practically glows in the dark, and indeed does so with holographic help, and is shorter. Alto has some serious mom-issues to work through before he's ready to hitch himself to a relationship with Sheryl, much less Ranka, at this point in his life.
Besides, they could've just cut to a shot of Alto's mom as they did after that, to show Alto thinking of his mother... or him holding a photo of her, since there's undoubtedly a few there, and then have him walk in and seeing Sheryl wearing that gear without overlaying Alto's mom over Sheryl's dissimilar profile. The boy has some problems... and serious ones, methinks.
... her hair's so pink that it practically glows in the dark, and indeed does so with holographic help, and is shorter. Alto has some serious mom-issues to work through before he's ready to hitch himself to a relationship with Sheryl, much less Ranka, at this point in his life.
Besides, they could've just cut to a shot of Alto's mom as they did after that, to show Alto thinking of his mother... or him holding a photo of her, since there's undoubtedly a few there, and then have him walk in and seeing Sheryl wearing that gear without overlaying Alto's mom over Sheryl's dissimilar profile. The boy has some problems... and serious ones, methinks.
I think this is making a mountain out of a molehill. If that's the case, then why did people not recognize Ranka as she sneaks away, despite being the only person in Frontier with green hair? The point is moot, as well as the whole argument on Sheryl/Miyo. I agree with you to a certain extent, that there may be more of a mystery behind Alto's mother's death, but certainly not in the way that you're thinking.
Again, the series have chosen to execute this point differently than yours. It's an issue (not even an issue, it was a moment) that was brought up for less than three seconds, before it died and never brought up again. Really, I don't mind if you wish to pursue this point further, or more forcefully, but I'll expect you to back this up more thoroughly in the future by explaining the relationship between this point and the dynamic between Alto and Sheryl built up from the last eighteen episodes. :p
Haesslich
2008-08-16, 01:34
The dynamic, as far as I can tell, has always been one of alternating challenges followed by supporting episodes... although recently, he's been taking her pretty much for granted. But this sorta talk belongs in the Romance thread.
Still, the boy has issues... and the way they did the overlay doesn't help that impression at all.
Swampstorm
2008-08-16, 01:36
I'll post my thoughts on this episode later, but I just needed to respond to this line of reasoning.
.. and she looks nothing like Alto. It's like, if I caught someone in my Mom's room wearing a terry robe, I should automatically see her as 'Mom' and not say 'hey, what the fuck are you doing there, wearing Mom's robe?" See the difference? ;)
The latter's a normal response to someone wearing your mother's clothing. The former's a sign of an attachment which borders on unnatural, or else a sign that they remind you of your mother... which usually isn't a good thing for a relationship, unless the person has unresolved Oedipal feelings.People seem to be misusing the Oedipus complex a lot lately.
Firstly, the idea is simply a framework with which Freud used to fit his observations. It may yield some useful insights into a person's behavior, or it may not. Every individual is different, and it does you no good to religiously follow any one theory as if it's the absolute truth.
Secondly, Freud suggested that resolution of the complex occurs by shifting the object of desire from the mother to another. The complex is unresolved only if he remains fixated on his mother, which supposedly leads him to deliberately subvert his sexual relationships due to his lingering attachment (he used this to try to explain phenomena such as pedophilia, for example).
Now, if you want to suggest that the scene represents that Alto has lingering attachments to his mother which lead him to refuse to commit to a relationship with a girl, then it would follow that shifting his desire from his mother to Sheryl represents the final resolution of this conflict. Of course, it would be a bit late in coming, since this complex usually works itself out very early in life (ie. age 4 or 5).
But this is largely beside the point.
If you've been following the recent magazine interviews that were posted in the speculation and spoilers thread, the purpose of that comparison between Alto's mother and Sheryl should become much more obvious. But I suppose it'll become clear to you soon enough.
kilroy0097
2008-08-16, 02:09
Too much to quote so I'll just take each point I think needs addressing as briefly as possible. There is no transition between each point so attempt to follow along.
On the issue of Ranka coming to Galia 4. She did this by request of the SMS to help cull the rebellion. The Zentradi just wanted a singer. Since they knew Sheryl was sick and thanks to Luca's new hyperdrive engine they were able to deliver something. They did not realize at all that it would have turned out as well as it did. Ranka did this more than anything to save everyone on the planet out of the goodness of her heart. There was no alternative reason.
The Mall. She was going to sing anyways but the airplane, hence the thought of Alto, gave her the courage to do so. So this started the ball rolling in the very beginning. BTW who convinced her to sing in the first place? Mihail.
In Episode 19, on the hill before the concert, Brera asks Ranka for a specific reason why she sings. She thought about it and realized that specifically singing she has done for Alto more than any other reason. Wanting to become like Sheryl has always been her personal dream before she met Alto. It just didn't become a real goal until after Sheryl discovered her talent. Hence she comes to that conclusion and decides for Alto to continue singing because she knows that Alto wants her to keep on singing. This is why catching Sheryl and Alto together was so heart breaking for her. She has put both Sheryl and Alto on a pedestal and felt that she is the underdog if Sheryl would seriously pursue Alto. See them together makes that nightmare a reality for her. If someone you knew who was better looking, older and more talented than you seemingly got the person you were going after, wouldn't you feel a little heart broken?
Alto is the one that draws the arrow in the heart. Whether he is thinking about Ranka or Sheryl it's unknown. He thinks about Sheryl early in the performance when he thinks, "Sheryl see me." but later he also agrees with Mihail about Ranka really doing very well in her performance. In that small exchange I think Sheryl wins honestly.
Sheryl in Alto's arms was not her fainting. She recovers much too easily when Ranka appears. See her reaction. It's not one of "I'm sick." it's an expression of "Oh crap."
Sheryl before she got sick was incredibly full of herself and egotistical. She believes that no one in the universe is responsible for her success other than herself. She does not really rely on anyone but herself. Which is why Grace pops her bubble and makes her realize her success was not just herself but part of a plan. This makes Sheryl doubt herself. The success of Ranka doubles that doubt. Asking Klan and Mihail to not tell Alto is not only because she loves him but more than anything to preserve her own image of strength. She wants to place herself on a pedestal for Alto which means she must be the glamorous and strong Sheryl that she feels he likes and not the weak and vulnerable Sheryl that she has become. She probably doesn't think Alto will like her anymore if she is like that. It's not exactly hard to figure out the motivation behind the request. You just have to pay attention more. She is just getting around to realizing that there is no "i" in "team".
The animators need to work on consistent animation of characters. This fluctuation of 12 to 16 in Ranka's age appearance is getting really old and annoying. They don't do this with any other characters.
Ranka is incredibly immature and unprofessional. Something that Sheryl is obviously the opposite about. Ranka shirks her duties in the parade to look for a pet. A huge huge parade and event in her honor and she blows it off as if it's a lunch date. Her saying sorry from the alley doesn't even come close to making up for it. I surprised she even made it to the concert. If it wasn't for the revelation on the hill to sing for Alto I don't think she would have even gone. If Grace and Luca weren't so busy attempting to overthrow the government, Grace would have probably ordered Brera to make sure she was there to fulfill her responsibilities.
Ranka's success or I should say beginning of success came with the movie. Remember the director (my avatar btw) saying, "The Legend begins here." This she did all by herself and this got her ball rolling quicker. Don't think that Sheryl being sick started the ball rolling on Galia 4. That was just a lucky break for Ranka. Sheryl could have easily gotten back first place if not for Grace at that point. What soared Ranka into super stardom was her use of Aimo in battle. Both the first time and then the second time which she is heralded as a heroine. She is literally following in the footsteps of Minmei and hence her legend becomes greater.
To those that think this. Stop attempting to postulate that Brera and Ranka are together or even close. It's never going to happen so just remove that solution from your delusional prophecies. It doesn't make sense in the story, it would never make sense and hence why bother attempting to support it. Brera is her brother and her protector. Nothing more.
The conclusion of whom Alto will be with in the end is completely up in the air for two reasons. Ranka's affinity with Vajra may mean she leaves. Sheryl's infection of the Varja Type Virus may lead to her death. It really could go either way regardless of character interaction. Plot has a way of superseding romances. Personally I hope Alto dies and Sheryl lives, retires from music due to her health and becomes Ranka's manager. That's the best ending I can think of.
And for my last comment...
If I personally saw the girl I liked who has been acting weird lately and has been sick in my dead mother's room wearing her clothes and if the house was huge and many many rooms the first things out of my mouth would be, "Why are you wearing my mother's clothes and what are you doing in her room?". If she answered with "What do you want?" when I opened the door my response would be, "To take off my mother's kimono and get out of her room. I'll get something else for you to wear." Their exchange is so incredibly awkward that I think the writers may have been drunk when they wrote it. Also it gives Sheryl the air of being a mega bitch even though she does break down later when she pisses Alto off and starts sobbing to herself. Really the girl is all messed up at this point and rather conflicted with what to do in the last weeks of her life. Of course who wouldn't be?
Im too lazy to type.. so I'll just chop off one point.. I see others will take care the rest :D
On the issue of Ranka coming to Galia 4. She did this by request of the SMS to help cull the rebellion. The Zentradi just wanted a singer. Since they knew Sheryl was sick and thanks to Luca's new hyperdrive engine they were able to deliver something. They did not realize at all that it would have turned out as well as it did. Ranka did this more than anything to save everyone on the planet out of the goodness of her heart. There was no alternative reason.
erm.. Ranka going to the Galia 4 was helped by Luca and Micheal (as her and Alto's friend).. There's no SMS involvement. Ozma knew, but only as her brother.
kilroy0097
2008-08-16, 02:54
Im too lazy to type.. so I'll just chop off one point.. I see others will take care the rest :D
erm.. Ranka going to the Galia 4 was helped by Luca and Micheal (as her and Alto's friend).. There's no SMS involvement. Ozma knew, but only as her brother.
Well I'm pretty certain everyone in SMS knew about this without it having to be said. The government and military didn't. We already know they don't exactly communicate with each other.
Swampstorm
2008-08-16, 03:08
...And there's another line of reasoning that I need to respond to.
Sheryl before she got sick was incredibly full of herself and egotistical. She believes that no one in the universe is responsible for her success other than herself. She does not really rely on anyone but herself. Which is why Grace pops her bubble and makes her realize her success was not just herself but part of a plan. This makes Sheryl doubt herself. The success of Ranka doubles that doubt.That's not true at all. When Grace tells Sheryl that she's a manufactured idol, and that she wouldn't have achieved her success without Grace's help, Sheryl responds with "I won't be defeated, even if you aren't with me." Her belief in herself is so strong that Grace is forced to up the ante to try to break Sheryl's will: by telling her that she's going to die. It's this fact, and only this fact, that makes Sheryl lose her will to fight.
Asking Klan and Mihail to not tell Alto is not only because she loves him but more than anything to preserve her own image of strength. She wants to place herself on a pedestal for Alto which means she must be the glamorous and strong Sheryl that she feels he likes and not the weak and vulnerable Sheryl that she has become. She probably doesn't think Alto will like her anymore if she is like that. It's not exactly hard to figure out the motivation behind the request. You just have to pay attention more. She is just getting around to realizing that there is no "i" in "team".Again, this is off the mark. In this episode, Sheryl deliberately tries to push Alto away so that she wouldn't trouble him with her illness. In order to do so, she deliberately tells him that all the things that she said about seizing her destiny were a lie. She's not afraid of appearing weak in front of Alto. In fact, she deliberately makes herself appear to be that way in order to drive him away.
If you're wondering, this is also the reason why Alto asked her to come see his flying. If you'll recall, back in episode one, Alto tried to pull off some creative stunts but ended up creating an accident during Sheryl's show. Alto wanted Sheryl to see for herself the difference that her words had made for him, by showing her how much he had improved with his stunts during the concert.
Even if you look at the scene in episode eighteen with Sheryl, Klan, and Michael, Sheryl tries her best to comfort them. Her statement "I am Sheryl Nome" isn't a statement of her self-confidence, but rather a reminder to herself that she needs to be strong for the sake of the people around her. Even back in episode one, Sheryl uses this phrase to remind herself that even though she's tired from her flight, she still has a duty to fulfill to her waiting fans and the people who came to interview her (even though Grace gives her the option of skipping it and resting). Sheryl doesn't want to burden anyone with her illness, so she waits until she's away from all of her friends to let loose and express her grief.
Their exchange is so incredibly awkward that I think the writers may have been drunk when they wrote it. Also it gives Sheryl the air of being a mega bitch even though she does break down later when she pisses Alto off and starts sobbing to herself. Really the girl is all messed up at this point and rather conflicted with what to do in the last weeks of her life. Of course who wouldn't be?Sheryl isn't conflicted at all. She's resolved herself not to tell Alto about her illness, so she deliberately is cold to him in order to drive him away, even though her words fly in the face of all of her feelings, and even though it tears her apart inside. That's why Yasaburo compliments her acting after Alto leaves, a testament to the immense sacrifice that she just made.
Alto is starting to catch on, however, and Michael's near giveaway on the rooftop makes him intent on knowing the truth. Klan, meanwhile, pushes Sheryl to tell Alto the truth about her condition. That was the moment that Ranka interrupted - it wasn't a confession of love, but rather her explanation of why she could never be with Alto.
"Crucified by fate, the Northern Star is burning."
daimonth
2008-08-16, 03:11
The real blow to Sheryl was her imminent death. She was ready to go off on her own and restart her career, telling Grace basically" No I don't need you, I can do it myself." before Grace CQCed her and pronounced her death. She is every bit as good a singer as Ranka, if not better, yet she was denied the opportunity to fight.
Episode 19 shows clearly that Sheryl is rejecting Alto because she planned on facing her death alone. Sheryl planned to remove herself from his life, her agressive retorts this episode, telling him that she doesnt plan on singing anymore is simply laying the ground work, so that he will not miss her when she is gone. This is a difficult decision for her because as shown last episode when she collapsed and mistook Yasaburo for Alto, as well as her calling out Altos name gently before switching to a more agressive tone, that she really wanted to be with him.
Saotome household has a separate section for Altos mom, the place set aside for her to recover from her illness. It was Yasaburo who put Sheryl there(likely with permission from Altos father) and its likely that it was him too who gave Sheryl Altos moms cloth. Both Sheyl and Alto know that Alto don't want to go back home, Alto even swore not to set foot in the house again. Sheryl wanted to be aggressive, she wanted to reject Alto, to push him away. Alto was flustered seeing his mom in Sheryl for a brief moment as well as trying to explain why he broke his own oath. So that is how that scene turned out the way it did.
MaiHikari
2008-08-16, 03:15
She has put both Sheryl and Alto on a pedestal and felt that she is the underdog if Sheryl would seriously pursue Alto. See them together makes that nightmare a reality for her. If someone you knew who was better looking, older and more talented than you seemingly got the person you were going after, wouldn't you feel a little heart broken?
Sheryl has already declared war during the sing-off at the hospital. Everyone knew she was serious about Alto except for the guy himself. If Ranka really sees herself as the underdog then she wouldn't automatically assume the arrow as a love confession, without considering that Sheryl is still a threat. No one doubts that she was heart broken, but they're questioning if she sees anything else beyond herself and Alto. Even her search for Ai-kun was short-lived. Heck, if my dog was missing, I'd be searching everywhere, posting his picture in every corner, and wouldn't stop worrying until I bring him home. Hence, Ranka's relationship with everything else besides Alto was very shallow.
Sheryl before she got sick was incredibly full of herself and egotistical. She believes that no one in the universe is responsible for her success other than herself. She does not really rely on anyone but herself. Which is why Grace pops her bubble and makes her realize her success was not just herself but part of a plan. This makes Sheryl doubt herself. The success of Ranka doubles that doubt. Asking Klan and Mihail to not tell Alto is not only because she loves him but more than anything to preserve her own image of strength. She wants to place herself on a pedestal for Alto which means she must be the glamorous and strong Sheryl that she feels he likes and not the weak and vulnerable Sheryl that she has become. She probably doesn't think Alto will like her anymore if she is like that. It's not exactly hard to figure out the motivation behind the request. You just have to pay attention more. She is just getting around to realizing that there is no "i" in "team".
Not true, she relied on Grace and trusted her with her health and management. And she has developed throughout the series by deciding to go to school, making friends with SMS, getting closer to Alto. She was beginning to include others in her life. Before that, she was only treated as an idol so she didn't have the opportunity to get close to anyone else other than Grace.
Not telling Alto about her condition wasn't about preserving her image of being strong. What's image if you're gonna die. Mikhail said it himself, that Sheryl was thinking of Alto's welfare in spite of herself. She didn't want him to get hurt by her death so she distanced herself from him. She pretended to be mad when she saw him, not to put up a facade of strength, but to make him hate her and hence lessen his grieve over her loss. Albeit, I would agree that it's a failed strategy.
Ranka's success or I should say beginning of success came with the movie. Remember the director (my avatar btw) saying, "The Legend begins here." This she did all by herself and this got her ball rolling quicker. Don't think that Sheryl being sick started the ball rolling on Galia 4. That was just a lucky break for Ranka. Sheryl could have easily gotten back first place if not for Grace at that point. What soared Ranka into super stardom was her use of Aimo in battle. Both the first time and then the second time which she is heralded as a heroine. She is literally following in the footsteps of Minmei and hence her legend becomes greater.
No, the movie only got her as far as a solicitation from a manager. She still had to stand in the streets to pass out flyers. She didn't become a hit sensation until the broadcast of her singing on Galia 4.
If I personally saw the girl I liked who has been acting weird lately and has been sick in my dead mother's room wearing her clothes and if the house was huge and many many rooms the first things out of my mouth would be, "Why are you wearing my mother's clothes and what are you doing in her room?". If she answered with "What do you want?" when I opened the door my response would be, "To take off my mother's kimono and get out of her room. I'll get something else for you to wear." Their exchange is so incredibly awkward that I think the writers may have been drunk when they wrote it. Also it gives Sheryl the air of being a mega bitch even though she does break down later when she pisses Alto off and starts sobbing to herself. Really the girl is all messed up at this point and rather conflicted with what to do in the last weeks of her life. Of course who wouldn't be?
Japanese have a custom of passing down kimono from generation to generation because it was such a valuable clothing. They also have a custom of giving kimono to guests who are staying at their residence (especially if they didn't bring their own change of clothing in the rain). Room of the deceased are not usually forbidden. They are often well kept and used as guest-rooms, although I wouldn't put it past Alto's brother to consciously decide putting Sheryl there. Hence, it was not an act of disrespect for her to wear it and be in Alto's mother's room. So it was obvious why Alto wasn't offended by it.
Saotome household has a separate section for Altos mom, the place set aside for her to recover from her illness. It was Yasaburo who put Sheryl there(likely with permission from Altos father) and its likely that it was him too who gave Sheryl Altos moms cloth. Both Sheyl and Alto know that Alto don't want to go back home, Alto even swore not to set foot in the house again. Sheryl wanted to be aggressive, she wanted to reject Alto, to push him away. Alto was flustered seeing his mom in Sheryl for a brief moment as well as trying to explain why he broke his own oath. So that is how that scene turned out the way it did.
Sheryl actually called Yasaburo on this and said that even though his plan was to use to her force Alto to remember those times with his mom and to bring him back to Kabuki, it failed because Sheryl is "useless" (her own words btw).
daimonth
2008-08-16, 03:31
Yep, I didn't bother with further elaboration on that part because its clearly stated in the episode as a ploy by Yasaburo. Though I have to say Yasaburos expression during that part was rather amusing.
magnuskn
2008-08-16, 03:31
I donīt think I can add anything to what Swampy and Mai said to rebut Kilroys post, but well done, people. :)
Sheryl is very far from being a egotistical person. You completely misread her in this regard.
kilroy0097
2008-08-16, 04:06
Hey I just don't think Sheryl is as strong as everyone thinks she is. I really can't see how you guys believe that before she got sick she wasn't egotistical. It's seems rather plain as day to me. Aren't most super stars rather full of themselves? My viewpoint of Sheryl is as a normal human being that actually has weaknesses and is not as perfect as you guys really seem to want to paint her as. Let me say first before you guys bite my head off that I do actually like Sheryl as a character but I also like Ranka and the rest of the cast with exception of Alto. I really don't like Alto's character at all.
As for the dialog said while Sheryl was in the kimono I admit my Japanese sucks so I missed a lot of that. So I stand corrected on whatever insight was given there that I obviously missed. In fact I probably missed a few more key points in the dialog later on. So before I debate or rebut my points I will err on the side of caution and wait for the first fansub to come out so I can better understand what was actually said. Cool?
Hey I just don't think Sheryl is as strong as everyone thinks she is.
She isn't. For one thing, she is definitely not strong enough to shed her "I am SHERYL NOME" mask.
I really can't see how you guys believe that before she got sick she wasn't egotistical.
And she has an ego, but thats all she has, and what she relied on through her rise and fall. Yet, behind her mask is actually someone who cares a whole lot about the people who she associates with. Her relationship with Ranka had been one of support. She offered spiritual as well as material support for Ranka. But guess what happened, say, in this episode? With Ranka's "OMG" expression as Sheryl fell into Alto's arms as if the latter belonged to in a relationship with Ranka already.
And I really didn't like her showing off in the hospital scene.
It's seems rather plain as day to me. Aren't most super stars rather full of themselves? My viewpoint of Sheryl is as a normal human being that actually has weaknesses and is not as perfect as you guys really seem to want to paint her as.
I don't think many of us believe Sheryl is perfect, in fact, a lot of us acknowledge that she is weak in many aspects.
Let me say first before you guys bite my head off that I do actually like Sheryl as a character but I also like Ranka and the rest of the cast with exception of Alto. I really don't like Alto's character at all.
Alto done many things for Sheryl, but he is a cautious one. Moreover, he does not know how to act properly in front of Sheryl, and its not his fault. After all, Sheryl is consciously trying to push him away due to her poor health. One cannot blame Alto for not knowing what really is going on.
- Tak
Sheryl has already declared war during the sing-off at the hospital. Everyone knew she was serious about Alto except for the guy himself. If Ranka really sees herself as the underdog then she wouldn't automatically assume the arrow as a love confession, without considering that Sheryl is still a threat. No one doubts that she was heart broken, but they're questioning if she sees anything else beyond herself and Alto. Even her search for Ai-kun was short-lived. Heck, if my dog was missing, I'd be searching everywhere, posting his picture in every corner, and wouldn't stop worrying until I bring him home. Hence, Ranka's relationship with everything else besides Alto was very shallow.
I feel like peeps who want to vilify Ranka keep nagging on about the arrow through the heart... I can't agree at all that Ranka is shallow and wrong in her presumption about what it meant... (Naive, yes, but that's different from shallow.) It was a HUGE heart with her NAME UNDER IT fer crissakes! So she thinks, "As I thought (or hoped) Alto" Should she have considered that maybe Mihail or Luca was the one sending her a REALLY BIG valentine in the sky? Nothing so selfish about it, regardless of whether she thought she was the underdog or not. Aside from the duet/duel between the two girls at the Hospital, Ranka has had Alto make statements to defuse her suspicions about Sheryl's involvement with him. In pretty much every instance where Ranka has asked about Sheryl, Alto has denied or obfuscated the fact that, well, yeah, he WAS there with Sheryl... It doesn't mean he was clear on his feelings, but he's lead Ranka to believe that there's nothing going on between he and Sheryl.
And maybe she SHOULD be more panicked about her lost pet. (I know I would be, just like you...) But she had JUST finished her concert, and who better to have help you in looking for your pet again than the guy you love. Especially if he just drew a HUGE-O heart in the sky for you! Better to go get him now while its all still fresh and "of the moment." Besides, if you were Alto and HAD just confessed YOUR love, wouldn't you be waiting for your (new) girlfriend to come running instead of ditching you to look for her weird green, illegal alien pet?
No, the movie only got her as far as a solicitation from a manager. She still had to stand in the streets to pass out flyers. She didn't become a hit sensation until the broadcast of her singing on Galia 4.
I agree with Kilroy, Ranka's star was on the rise from the movie, on. The flyers & carrots are all part of paying one's dues. Presumably she was being paid for her singing. Thats the start on the road to success. Karaoke in the streets isn't. Yes, she didn't "hit" until Galia IV, but she was already well on her way because the Galia IV incident preempted her debut concert... Hence the Zentradi excitement over her arrival...
Japanese have a custom of passing down kimono from generation to generation because it was such a valuable clothing. They also have a custom of giving kimono to guests who are staying at their residence (especially if they didn't bring their own change of clothing in the rain). Room of the deceased are not usually forbidden. They are often well kept and used as guest-rooms, although I wouldn't put it past Alto's brother to consciously decide putting Sheryl there. Hence, it was not an act of disrespect for her to wear it and be in Alto's mother's room. So it was obvious why Alto wasn't offended by it.
This sort of cultural detail is fascinating stuff that's easy to miss if you aren't aware of it, and is a nice undertone to watching Anime. I was wondering why the room wasn't more like those in-home shrines. This explains a lot. Thank you for clarifying this.
I'm feeling really badly for Sheryl at this point and am hoping she got out more than just that she's got a fatal disease, before the interruption...
magnuskn
2008-08-16, 04:29
Hey I just don't think Sheryl is as strong as everyone thinks she is. I really can't see how you guys believe that before she got sick she wasn't egotistical. It's seems rather plain as day to me. Aren't most super stars rather full of themselves? My viewpoint of Sheryl is as a normal human being that actually has weaknesses and is not as perfect as you guys really seem to want to paint her as. Let me say first before you guys bite my head off that I do actually like Sheryl as a character but I also like Ranka and the rest of the cast with exception of Alto. I really don't like Alto's character at all.
You seem to be projecting personal distaste at the egotism of super stars onto Sheryl.
Everybody has a ego of some sorts. But being "egotistical" is something different.
Here is the Wikipedia entry on egotism:
Egotism is the motivation to maintain and enhance favorable views of self. Egotism means placing oneself at the center of one's world with no direct concern for others.
It is closely related to narcissism, or "loving one's self," and the possible tendency to speak or write of oneself boastfully and at great length. Egotism may coexist with delusions of one's own importance, at the denial of others. This conceit is a character trait describing a person who acts to gain values in an amount excessively greater than that which he/she gives to others. Egotism is often accomplished by exploiting the altruism, irrationality and ignorance of others, as well as utilizing coercive force and/or fraud.
Sheryl has quite a big ego, as she saw herself as a self-made star, which gave her the god-like confidence we Sheryl fans adore so much.
Nonetheless, she is capable of seeing things from other persons viewpoints, is capable of selfless sacrifice and tries to comfort her friends.
And, importantly, she has stayed true to these maxims during the entire series. If at the beginning she came off as rather high-strung, it is because she didnīt know the other protagonists yet, and she had to have her shields up, as other people treated her as "Sheryl Nome" the super star. Which normally means those people want to exploit you in some manner.
Ironically, it is Ranka, the supposed humble character, who could rather be read as egotistical and self-centered. She is projecting all her personal growth on Alto, to the exclusion of everyone else. Her fans, her other friends, her manager ( Elmo )... it is all a shadow in relation about her crush on Alto.
It doesnīt matter to her that the very survival of Frontier and everyone on it is threatened, as long as she gets Alto.
As for Alto, I think that internally he already has gone with Sheryl as his choice, but he doesnīt want to hurt Rankas feelings, because she is a dear friend to him.
Contrary to other peoples opinions, I think he really noticed that both girls love him in episode 12, not in 15. But he has held off on making a choice, because events around him conspire against it and he doesnīt want to hurt the losing girl.
Of course next episode could prove me wrong, but Iīd puke if he really chooses Ranka over Sheryl.
I feel like peeps who want to vilify Ranka keep nagging on about the arrow through the heart... I can't agree at all that Ranka is shallow and wrong in her presumption about what it meant... (Naive, yes, but that's different from shallow.)
I don't think it is a case of vilifying Ranka, but rather, a case of pointing out her naiveness throughout the entire series. Never mind that she looks younger in every passing episode, but her inability to get a clue amongst the greater event of things may cause some irritation amongst us.
She acquired her stardom yes, but she expressed nearly no responsibility for that stardom. An idol with the ability to save worlds holds a special place in the Macross universe, unfortunately for Ranka, she'd rather be playing with her brother than acting as an encouragement to the people, who I need not remind you flooded the streets just to see her. Alas, I cannot blame her for it, after all, she is but a child!
- Tak
magnuskn
2008-08-16, 04:37
Especially if he just drew a HUGE-O heart in the sky for you!
He didnīt. So, Klan better watch out for Michael, because he *clearly*, according to you, has his eyes on Ranka. Meow! Cat fight!:D
He didnīt. So, Klan better watch out for Michael, because he *clearly*, according to you, has his eyes on Ranka. Meow! Cat fight!:D
I'm not sure whether you are simply playing around. Which is cool... Or are reading my posts incorrectly, which is unfortunate. :confused:
MaiHikari
2008-08-16, 05:01
I feel like peeps who want to vilify Ranka keep nagging on about the arrow through the heart... I can't agree at all that Ranka is shallow and wrong in her presumption about what it meant... (Naive, yes, but that's different from shallow.) It was a HUGE heart with her NAME UNDER IT fer crissakes! So she thinks, "As I thought (or hoped) Alto" Should she have considered that maybe Mihail or Luca was the one sending her a REALLY BIG valentine in the sky?
First, the arrow wasn't the only thing indicating her shallowness. It was mentioned before that Ranka didn't bother to thank anyone else for being kind and supportive of her. Her singing was only for Alto?! All he said was "do what you like" when she said she wanted everyone to hear her sing. While her fans and Nanase has been rooting for her all these time. What about all the work that Elmo did for her before she discarded him? And what about Brera who had been protecting her?
Second, in the world of Macross, when there's a concert, pilots would often provide the visual entertainment stunts and hype up the fans. The *heart* Ranka and arrow were prechoreographed. That's probably common knowledge to the populace but conveniently forgotten by Ranka.
And maybe she SHOULD be more panicked about her lost pet. (I know I would be, just like you...) But she had JUST finished her concert, and who better to have help you in looking for your pet again than the guy you love. Especially if he just drew a HUGE-O heart in the sky for you! Better to go get him now while its all still fresh and "of the moment." Besides, if you were Alto and HAD just confessed YOUR love, wouldn't you be waiting for your (new) girlfriend to come running instead of ditching you to look for her weird green, illegal alien pet?
I was talking about during the parade and before the concert. She was having fun with Brera and forgot about her pet.
I agree with Kilroy, Ranka's star was on the rise from the movie, on. The flyers & carrots are all part of paying one's dues. Presumably she was being paid for her singing. Thats the start on the road to success. Karaoke in the streets isn't. Yes, she didn't "hit" until Galia IV, but she was already well on her way because the Galia IV incident preempted her debut concert... Hence the Zentradi excitement over her arrival...
She was on the rise but it wouldn't have happened overnight. Sheryl sang in the time of peace so she had to work very hard to win over fan's favors. She chose to not ditch her fans just after arriving on Frontier from a long trip. And it took her years to build her popularity and hence she was annoyed when people think she got there by luck. I think it would have taken Ranka years too if not for the war against the Vajra and her singing being the primary reason of their victories. BTW, the Zentradi got excited because Ranka's singing stopped the terrorist attack.
This sort of cultural detail is fascinating stuff that's easy to miss if you aren't aware of it, and is a nice undertone to watching Anime. I was wondering why the room wasn't more like those in-home shrines. This explains a lot. Thank you for clarifying this.
You're welcome :)
magnuskn
2008-08-16, 05:04
I'm not sure whether you are simply playing around. Which is cool... Or are reading my posts incorrectly, which is unfortunate. :confused:
I quote:
Especially if he just drew a HUGE-O heart in the sky for you!
You say that Alto did draw the heart in the sky. It was Michael. Hence my comment.
And, yeah, I was kidding. Iīm somewhat at a loss how the post can be interpreted as being serious. Maybe I need to put a "THIS IS A JOKE!" sign behind anything like that? I thought putting a :D to it would suffice...
I feel like peeps who want to vilify Ranka keep nagging on about the arrow through the heart... I can't agree at all that Ranka is shallow and wrong in her presumption about what it meant... (Naive, yes, but that's different from shallow.) It was a HUGE heart with her NAME UNDER IT fer crissakes! So she thinks, "As I thought (or hoped) Alto" Should she have considered that maybe Mihail or Luca was the one sending her a REALLY BIG valentine in the sky? Nothing so selfish about it, regardless of whether she thought she was the underdog or not. Aside from the duet/duel between the two girls at the Hospital, Ranka has had Alto make statements to defuse her suspicions about Sheryl's involvement with him. In pretty much every instance where Ranka has asked about Sheryl, Alto has denied or obfuscated the fact that, well, yeah, he WAS there with Sheryl... It doesn't mean he was clear on his feelings, but he's lead Ranka to believe that there's nothing going on between he and Sheryl.
Oh please .... /facepalm .. goddamn I'm into the red paying all these facepalm credits ..
If it was a Sheryl's concert and Alto's goes up there and painted Ranka's name up there, you guys have every right to brag for it. You really think there's any other freaking name up there that Alto and crew can use at that moment?
I quote:
You say that Alto did draw the heart in the sky. It was Michael. Hence my comment.
Sorry, I didn't. I wrote:
>>It was a HUGE heart with her NAME UNDER IT fer crissakes! So she thinks, "As I thought (or hoped) Alto" Should she have considered that maybe Mihail or Luca was the one sending her a REALLY BIG valentine in the sky?<<
That's a question about what we're shown Ranka LOOKING at, and me wondering if Ranka seeing it through RankaGoggles should have interpreted it differently. I never said that Alto made it. RANKA assumes Alto made it. Please read my posts more carefully. You are being adversarial today.
And, yeah, I was kidding. Iīm somewhat at a loss how the post can be interpreted as being serious. Maybe I need to put a "THIS IS A JOKE!" sign behind anything like that? I thought putting a :D to it would suffice...
And a little rude too...
Oh please .... /facepalm .. goddamn I'm into the red paying all these facepalm credits ..
If it was a Sheryl's concert and Alto's goes up there and painted Ranka's name up there, you guys have every right to brag for it. You really think there's any other freaking name up there that Alto and crew can use at that moment?
Please see my previous post.
MAN there's hostility in the air today....
magnuskn
2008-08-16, 05:20
Sorry, I didn't. I wrote:
>>It was a HUGE heart with her NAME UNDER IT fer crissakes! So she thinks, "As I thought (or hoped) Alto" Should she have considered that maybe Mihail or Luca was the one sending her a REALLY BIG valentine in the sky?<<
That's a question about what we're shown Ranka LOOKING at, and me wondering if Ranka seeing it through RankaGoggles should have interpreted it differently. I never said that Alto made it. RANKA assumes Alto made it. Please read my posts more carefully. You are being adversarial today.
LOL! Okay, now you edited the post, after I quoted you? Nice going, dude. Nice going.
*edit* Ah, no, actually you wrote what I quoted in another part of the post. Seeing how I was making a joke *and* did clarify on it, you seem to be purposely making a rather big deal about it.
And a little rude too...
Yeah, the truth sometimes is harsh.
OK... now to get to someone who is having a reasonable discourse:
First, the arrow wasn't the only thing indicating her shallowness. It was mentioned before that Ranka didn't bother to thank anyone else for being kind and supportive of her. Her singing was only for Alto?! All he said was "do what you like" when she said she wanted everyone to hear her sing. While her fans and Nanase has been rooting for her all these time. What about all the work that Elmo did for her before she discarded him? And what about Brera who had been protecting her?
I guess I just find it surprising that so many people seem to be aghast at Ranka's behavior... as if it didn't suit her age or character... I'm here to tell you that high schoolers have no clue. The further away from high school you are, the easier it becomes to identify. Not only did I know kids just like this in HS, I still run into these sorts NOW!
If Kawamori is painting this naive HS girl as unaware and blinded by her myopic crush, to the exclusion of most all else, there is a reason for it. You don't have to LIKE it, but it would be at least fair to not expect more from her. I see her doing her best given the circumstances, the information she takes in, and her level of maturity... which ain't high, I think we all agree.
And while I feel much of what you're calling Ranka out on is covered by her naivete, which you see as shallowness (And I don't because that has overtones of forethought and malice.) We did have a scene where she expresses her concern over Elmo and whether this is all fair to him, Grace explains it away, and I guess that was good enough for the writers too. I'm not counting old Elmo out yet. At SOME point, Grace is likely to get her's, and Elmo will probably step over her twisted plastic carcass to take back Ranka's management... assuming she hasn't been assimilated by the bugs. :p
Second, in the world of Macross, when there's a concert, pilots would often provide the visual entertainment stunts and hype up the fans. The *heart* Ranka and arrow were prechoreographed. That's probably common knowledge to the populace but conveniently forgotten by Ranka.
Precisely... you and I agree on this, but again there's no law against being naive, inexperienced and deluded.
I was talking about during the parade and before the concert. She was having fun with Brera and forgot about her pet.
Oh... OK. My bad understanding.
Well, some people in the countryside shoot their pets and eat them come fall, so while I wouldn't act the same way, I don't know her mores that well... Still, I can't totally condemn her for running out of steam and making the best of the situation as she reacquaints herself with her "brother". Maybe the animators should have made her sulk around, or at least put up flyers while giggling... "Have you seen this Vajra? Big reward!" :D I don't hate her for it, but she is what she is, until something shocks her enough to change... maybe we're on that cusp now and the writers are putting too a fine point on it.
She was on the rise but it wouldn't have happened overnight. Sheryl sang in the time of peace so she had to work very hard to win over fan's favors. She chose to not ditch her fans just after arriving on Frontier from a long trip.
Yes, Sheryl is a professional, and appearently engineered by Grace to be one... She's all about the marketing.
I think it would have taken Ranka years too if not for the war against the Vajra and her singing being the primary reason of their victories. BTW, the Zentradi got excited because Ranka's singing stopped the terrorist attack.
Agreed, but she has been thrust into this position by sheer luck, or tragedy, depending on whether you have stock in her recording label... ;) But I don't really follow your line of thinking on this. The rush to greatness would only produce a singer who hasn't matured into her role... which is what we are witnessing. Not everyone is Miley Cyrus and has a famous daddy and massive international marketing machine to protect the public from her poor choices. Really this all lays at Grace's feet for not appointing her handlers instead of a cyborg fighter pilot.
And the Zentradi were excited about being her first concert... there is a V.O. of one of the soldiers expressing his disbelief at Ranka showing up so suddenly, (Something like "I thought I wouldn't get to see her" or similar) followed by one passing out when she does her "star pose" and another in a battle suit dancing around. They are all quite taken by her and fairly giddy about it. This is what annoys Qamjin's clone, whatever his name was... to try to kill her and get the fight started again.
Good stuff. Its healthy to clarify these things for a better understanding of the story.
Yeah, the truth sometimes is harsh.
Back at you chief! :kisskiss:
come on people
fighting about how shallow ranka is and that her love for alto is shallow is shallow
some might even say that the level of sniping is as shallow as ranka was in this episode
there is talk about a surprise ending
We don't know what that ending is, maybe they just said that to make it more interesting, maybe it will be a surprise ending for us, maybe it would have been a surprise ending if you had only watched episode 1
let's fight about something else, like good old grace, the queen, glass, sweet hugable nanase, klan and what ai kun is doing, and why there were 3 vajra (stage III I guess) in the crowd that for a change weren't attacking everyone
btw, I'm 100% sure ai kun (vajra, stage I) hasn't changed yet into those big yellow vajra, who I think are stage III of the vajra, he'd first have to change into one of those small green walking critters from episode 13 (which I guess is stage II)
Well, this might be better in a different thread, but I'd be amused (maybe fascinated is a better word) if the Vajra went off on the city because they were connected to Ranka's emotional state... and since she's probably feeling rejected right now....
Shades of Forbidden Planet anyone? Where's Leslie Nielson when you need him!?!?
MaiHikari
2008-08-16, 06:43
I guess I just find it surprising that so many people seem to be aghast at Ranka's behavior... as if it didn't suit her age or character... I'm here to tell you that high schoolers have no clue.
Some high schoolers are self-absorbed and immature; but some are mature with hopes to pursue college and are conscientous about their decisions, their friends, their family and their teachers. Maturity does not always go hand in hand with age and unfortunately doesn't always come with age. Some high schoolers are responsible and others are not, to their own credit or discredit. My point is to Ranka's discredit that she's still immature. It's okay for the first 15 eps but showing no growth since the beginning is drawing on the viewers patience. I guess if you watched ep 1-19 in one sitting, eh Ranka's behavior is just borderline annoying. No biggie. But we've suffered 19 weeks of it.
It might have just been the creator's miss, but they didn't do it with other characters and do it so often with Ranka's. May be it's what they wanted us to see so we can go "wow" on her transformation to a woman. I highly doubt that.
Well, some people in the countryside shoot their pets and eat them come fall,
I certainly hope it's not the same country Ranka came from. :p
Yes, Sheryl is a professional, and appearently engineered by Grace to be one... She's all about the marketing.
Grace didn't engineer a professional. You can't engineer a professional, when you're a pro, you get credit for what you do and chose to do. Why can't Grace engineer Ranka to be responsible to her fans?
I should also point out the difference between responsibility and reactionary. Reposibility indicates taking things around you and formulates your response to it. For example, Sheryl heard that Galaxy was attacked and decided to go back to help her homeland. Whereas reactionary was doing the things that were placed in front of you without really thinking about it. There are many examples in Ranka's behavior, I shouldn't need to point out the obvious. Being responsible is one of the many attributes of being a professional, that it could only come from the subject's conscious decision, and not engineered by another.
Agreed, but she has been thrust into this position by sheer luck, or tragedy, depending on whether you have stock in her recording label... ;) But I don't really follow your line of thinking on this. The rush to greatness would only produce a singer who hasn't matured into her role... which is what we are witnessing.
I was disputing Kilroy's post that Ranka's popularity started with the movie and I pointed out it was really Galia 4. We have digressed. :heh:
Dark Wing
2008-08-16, 06:49
come on people
fighting about how shallow ranka is and that her love for alto is shallow is shallow
some might even say that the level of sniping is as shallow as ranka was in this episode
there is talk about a surprise ending
We don't know what that ending is, maybe they just said that to make it more interesting, maybe it will be a surprise ending for us, maybe it would have been a surprise ending if you had only watched episode 1
let's fight about something else, like good old grace, the queen, glass, sweet hugable nanase, klan and what ai kun is doing, and why there were 3 vajra (stage III I guess) in the crowd that for a change weren't attacking everyone
btw, I'm 100% sure ai kun (vajra, stage I) hasn't changed yet into those big yellow vajra, who I think are stage III of the vajra, he'd first have to change into one of those small green walking critters from episode 13 (which I guess is stage II)
I couldn't agree with you more I'm really getting sick of reading all the post by the Ranka haters about how shallow she is when it's so not true and even shallow in it's self to say such things...back to the story please...
kilroy0097
2008-08-16, 07:11
Grace didn't engineer a professional. You can't engineer a professional, when you're a pro, you get credit for what you do and chose to do. Why can't Grace engineer Ranka to be responsible to her fans?
Hehe. Milli Vanilli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milli_Vanilli). I rest my case. :) (NO talent Huge success)
Edit add: T.A.T.u (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.A.T.u.) another example of pure marketing success with very little actual talent.
Edit add x2: I thought I should just add that I believe Sheryl's success was indeed more talent than marketing. I was just point out two examples where 20% talent and 80% marketing can also make a hit.
I was disputing Kilroy's post that Ranka's popularity started with the movie and I pointed out it was really Galia 4. We have digressed. :heh:
Yea we are going to have to agree to disagree about this one. While Ranka would not have soared up the charts like she has without Galia 4 as a turning point, this was not the beginning of her professional career. Her beginning would have been the fan service carrot dancing job she did. As soon as you have a manager or you are getting paid for your performance your professional career has started. So you can say that directly after singing that fateful song in the mall she became a professional. After which her part in the movie was her first major role or job which is what put her in the spot light and really started her fame. Second was her record production that was becoming popular before Gaila 4 thanks to her movie role. Third would have been her first concert (which was sold out BTW) but instead became Gaila 4 which more than anything was a lucky break career wise. Then finally her Live concert was Fourth and that secured her fame. This fame just sky rocketed after that with both Aimo incidents.
daimonth
2008-08-16, 09:18
I think he was talking more about Sheryls behaviour than her actual success. I don't think you can deny that Sheryl has, thus far, been very professional to her work, pushing herself to the limit to do her job. Also I don't think it would be an accurate portrayal of Sheryl to say that all her success came from marketing. Undoubtfully Grace has given her an opportunity to success, but large amount of her success also came from her dedication and talent. It has been shown both in the show and in her blog that she writes her own songs (Ranka on the other hand has specifically said that she isn't good in that department.) and she sang those with success. From Nyan Furo: Infinity topped Galatic Chart for 8 weeks straight. Iteza gogo Kyuuji don't be late topped the chat for 17 weeks straight, setting a record. Diamond Crevasse acknowledged as the no 1 tear jerking song. It is clear in their portrayal of Sheryl that she isn't all about marketing.
I thought that part itself is pretty obvious. After all, just look at the favorite character poll, compare the numbers, and there you have it.
Ranka fans were hit by pressure, plain and simple. Bottom line, there are far more Sheryl fans than Ranka ones. Regardless of their position on the shipping wars, that itself is a fact.
- Tak
just look at the favorite character poll,. Well here you're right... I even lose the habit to check out how many points Ranka gained today...Even Klan is more popular....
That's their choice to disappear, for whatever reason. That doesn't change the fact that they posted nasty in the other threads. One could only guess why they're no longer posting. I thought I just don't see them since I blocked them from my view.
The reason Sheryl fans are in full force right now is because we see that she's finally starting to get back into the story, and is still graceful in doing so. And more and more fans are getting tired of Ranka's high school crush + plain voice + cute face (yes, I'm looking at that screenshot in this episode where she looks like a near-exploding balloon) formula.
So my answer is, no, Westlo probably can't explain their disappearance. Only one of the Ranka fans before who had twisted and turned facts and said mean things could explain why they suddenly stopped. And I'm glad that the Ranka fans I see around seem to be more civil in discussions :)
OK this is right.
But you all saw the same scene like us,....how they painted Ranka on those stairs (she wasn't in her best day) + how they made her look ridiculous for misleading Alto'job for a confession: I like her character but how can I be proud of that ?
You should try to understand us .........nowadays it's became an assault course to be a Ranka fan :)
Hey I just don't think Sheryl is as strong as everyone thinks she is. I really can't see how you guys believe that before she got sick she wasn't egotistical. It's seems rather plain as day to me. Aren't most super stars rather full of themselves? My viewpoint of Sheryl is as a normal human being that actually has weaknesses and is not as perfect as you guys really seem to want to paint her as. Let me say first before you guys bite my head off that I do actually like Sheryl as a character but I also like Ranka and the rest of the cast with exception of Alto. I really don't like Alto's character at all.
Alto is so slow to get it......... hope he makes his choice and fastly !!!!
Marina Ismail
2008-08-16, 11:12
Standing from where Ranka was and being friends with the guys... even I could have told who drew the heart in the sky. It's not like she doesn't know what hair colour Mik is. I guess all she cared about was the fact Alto took part in it, even if he didn't draw the heart himself.
I wish while she was running up the stairs that she tripped and broke her neck, then Alto x Sheryl ending confirmed~
I'm jking, but I realllyyy can't stand Ranka, I couldn't stand her from ep 1 and it's now 19 eps and I STILL can't stand her. Why doesn't she go after Luca so I can see Nanase get jealous, it's like Nanase doesn't even care about Luca.... -_-;
MaiHikari
2008-08-16, 12:17
I'm really getting sick of reading all the post by the Ranka haters about how shallow she is when it's so not true and even shallow in it's self to say such things...back to the story please...
How does making your argument about a point drawing facts from the anime a shallow thing? Especially if someone else is debating with you on it. If you think she's so not shallow, perhaps you should state reasons why? If the act of calling someone shallow is shallow without sufficient evidence, then by that definition, you are also one.;)
How does making your argument about a point drawing facts from the anime a shallow thing? Especially if someone else is debating with you on it. If you think she's so not shallow, perhaps you should state reasons why? If the act of calling someone shallow is shallow without sufficient evidence, then by that definition, you are also one.;)
the argument is about if ranka is shallow or not
it is turning into a petty he said she said fight and it's getting nasty, not to mention pointless
So this argument about her being shallow or not is shallow, cause the argument is not based on anything concrete
Even adults when they are in love tend to do stupid childish stuff. It's what being in love is all about. That's what being human is all about.
don't get me wrong, by all means the ending I want is becoming more and more clear, and last and this episodes were clearly showing the ending I believe will eventually happen. But 5 pages of furious sniping about the shallowness of ranka's love for alto is a bit too much.
so let's stop talking about the last 30 seconds, stop talking about the arrow through the heart and the flight up the stairs and let's start talking about the other 18 minutes; about the 3 vajra, klan, michel, alto's bro, ai kun, brera, the coup d'etait, grace, the very nice second song from ranka which I really liked, michel, ozma and kathy's date
MaiHikari
2008-08-16, 12:38
furious sniping about the shallowness of ranka's love for alto
You misunderstood. It's about her shallowness toward everything else, not her love for Alto. And since when is character analysis pointless and forbiden in this forum and resulted in personal assault?
You misunderstood. It's about her shallowness toward everything else, not her love for Alto. And since when is character analysis pointless and forbiden in this forum and resulted in personal assault?
it isn't
to be honest if it wasn't for all the complaining about ranka's shallowness I wouldn't have even noticed
And then so many pages of complaining about ranka while leaving out almost everything else that happened is a bit too much. It seems, at least to me, to be petty and it just goes on and on and on
besides, the subs haven't appeared yet (is someone from the substaff sick?), and it seems like many can't understand what is being said, having to judge the episode based upon limited understanding of the language and basic summaries. I'd also suggest some form of prudence for that reason
Tsuchiro
2008-08-16, 15:08
besides, the subs haven't appeared yet (is someone from the substaff sick?), and it seems like many can't understand what is being said, having to judge the episode based upon limited understanding of the language and basic summaries. I'd also suggest some form of prudence for that reason
Most of the people that complained had their dose of ackem subs already. :p
Swampstorm
2008-08-16, 15:38
I've seen a number of excellent points made regarding this episode in the earlier discussion, but many of these were buried under a pile of angry accusations regarding shipping and bias. The main problem, I think, was in how these ideas were expressed.
I'm not really interested in delving into Ranka's character too much here, but seeing the latest batch of replies, I think that these issues need to be seen for what they really are. You might not agree with any of them, but hopefully you'll at least see the reasoning on which these arguments were based.
Ranka's Goals:
In episode three, Ranka tells Alto that she wants to sing professionally because she wants people to hear her. It's essentially a desire to prove her existance: being trapped in the emergency shelter made her realize that she didn't want to die unrecognized by the people around her. Her dream of becoming a professional singer was her path to self-actualization: to leave her footprints on the sands of time.
Ranka's decision to become Frontier's weapon in the battle against the Vajra was an extension of that. The government placed her in a situation in which her singing could make a difference to save lives. In so doing, Ranka was placed in a position to achieve her dream. With the people of Frontier hanging on to her every word, she finally had a chance to leave her mark on society.
This episode, and to a lesser extent, episode seventeen, subverts this character build-up.
In episode seventeen, Ranka resolves her doubts about becoming Frontier's weapon by asking Alto for his opinion. The problem, however, is that Ranka's decision to throw her support behind the military is based solely on gaining Alto's approval, rather than by discussing how this new role fit in with her original dreams.
In episode nineteen, by claiming that Alto is her sole reason for singing, Ranka sets aside her original aspirations to sing and share her music for the sake of everyone. The earlier discussion about feminism ties in here, since by casting aside those dreams, Ranka denies herself her own individuality in the process of trying to enter into a relationship with Alto.
But this situation can be considered outside of a gender specific context, as well. In any relationship, there needs to be a balance between your own needs as an individual and the needs of your partnership. Neglecting one for the sake of the other leads to a very one-sided relationship.
Ranka's role on Frontier:
Now if these concerns don't trouble you so much, an obvious counter-argument that you might make is "Why can't she change her goals?" To be sure, there's something that sounds very romantic about discarding your dreams for the sake of love.
But the problem here is that it's no longer just Ranka's sacrifice to make: it's the sacrifice of all of the people on Frontier. On the path to fame, Ranka agreed to portray herself as a symbol of hope for Frontier. The immense success and fame that Ranka was granted by elevating herself above the status of a mere idol, however, comes at the cost of responsibility.
Again, this ties back to the process by which Ranka made her decision. Had she decided to become Frontier's weapon in order to achieve her original dream of leaving a mark on society, then she would have relished the chance to take up this responsibility. Had she decided that she just wanted to sing for Alto, then she could have returned to those simpler days of singing Aimo to him on the hill.
But because Ranka took action based on a desire to gain Alto's approval, she has placed herself in a position where she does no justice to either her own needs or the needs of the people of Frontier. But part of growing up is in learning to live with the consequences of your decisions.
Ranka's actions during the parade result from and reflect her inability to do this.
Final Scene:
The reason that the last scene provokes a response from the viewers is due to dramatic irony. Ranka doesn't understand the reason why Alto and Sheryl are together on the roof, but the audience does. Ranka's situation is sharply contrasted with Sheryl's throughout the episode. So when you finally see them meet on the roof, and Ranka gets upset over the scene that she sees, the viewers tend to react strongly to the sheer incongruity of the situation. It's very overwhelming to watch.
While we can't blame any of the characters on this last point, it's the actions that they make leading up to this point that provide the tinder for this scene. The final moment is nothing more than the dropping of a lit match.
***
Hopefully that helps clarify these points, since I'd much rather discuss something else. :p
Dark Wing
2008-08-16, 16:24
How does making your argument about a point drawing facts from the anime a shallow thing? Especially if someone else is debating with you on it. If you think she's so not shallow, perhaps you should state reasons why? If the act of calling someone shallow is shallow without sufficient evidence, then by that definition, you are also one.;)
Well we as humans are very shallow creatures aren't we?...It just seems to me that some people love for Sheryl and want for a Sherly x Alto ending makes them blindly hate Ranka but thats just how I view it anyway...:p
I say Ranka is not shallow because she has without question accepted the job has the light and hope of the people of Frontier not for herself nor Alto but because she believes it's the right thing to do. She just asked Alto the guy she trust the most for a second opinion and not just to be praised by him.
I mean I just don't get it... Aren't we forgetting that it was Sheryl who has told Ranka a couple of times to go for the goal, follow her dreams, and don't give up. Now that Ranka is trying to follow Sherly's words to get what she wants she is getting ragged on because of it.
All I'm saying is leave the poor girl alone let her character go flush out the way the writes and creators want I'm sure they know what they are doing...:rolleyes:
squaresphere
2008-08-16, 16:58
It seems like we rehash the Ranka/Sheryl debate every single ep release. The arguments are stale and for me I love Sheryl as a character but I don't hate Ranka.
Personally, I think it's the Sheryl x Alto people or the Ranka x Alto people that get all bent out of shape. Honestly, for me Sheryl is too good for a bum like Alto, but considering he's the first person she's open up to it's natural that she'd have feelings for him no matter how much he doesn't deserve them.
I say Ranka is not shallow because she has without question accepted the job has the light and hope of the people of Frontier not for herself nor Alto but because she believes it's the right thing to do. She just asked Alto the guy she trust the most for a second opinion and not just to be praised by him.
I don't think shallow is the right word in describing her character whether or not she chose to accept the job as Frontier's savior. Regardless, Ranka never accepted the job as the light and hope of the people without question. Episode 19 is a good indication that she is not entirely into this whole "Minmei the 2nd" affair. Moreover, her original reason to sing was to prove her existence, later changed to for the sake of humanity and by this episode for Alto.
If Ranka is not shallow, she is not shallow for the wrong reasons.
I mean I just don't get it... Aren't we forgetting that it was Sheryl who has told Ranka a couple of times to go for the goal, follow her dreams, and don't give up. Now that Ranka is trying to follow Sherly's words to get what she wants she is getting ragged on because of it.
Sheryl originally thought Ranka's dream was the same as hers, to sing for the sake of singing, not for politics, not for an individual but for the art and fulfillment of singing. Ranka has since her acquisition of fame, deviated from that.
All I'm saying is leave the poor girl alone let her character go flush out the way the writes and creators want I'm sure they know what they are doing...:rolleyes:
Yet, you cannot deny her for essentially being a flip-flop. She is also very naive, and has little to no clue of the importance surrounding her aura. She also doesn't seem to take her fame and role as savior of humanity seriously. She wanted fame, she got it, but now she is being wishy-washy about it.
- Tak (Never mind that she looks younger each passing episode)
OK... much water under the bridge in the last 14 hours, but not much progress.... eh? :D
Let's take a look at time for a moment (moment in time? heh!) I look at the series as having happened over a period of time that probably hasn't even encompassed a year.... Does anyone KNOW definitively how much time has passed by now? If they've been showing a timeline, I've been too busy looking at cool explosions & listening to the soundtrack to notice that detail... :p AND because of the apparent brief period of time we are talking about, (BTW, The only thing I have trouble suspending disbelief over is the time it takes to make a film, like Bird Human and get it into the theatre.) whether mature or immature, I can't actually imagine Ranka CHANGING any more than she has, which arguably is little to none at all, except in willingness to take risks more than she did in the beginning.
Even watching the show over months, I'm not disappointed, I'm instead excited that things seem to be coming to a head. I'd be frustrated if she was inconsistent, but I don't see Ranka being that way, so I can deal with who she is... But that's a skill. I take people as they are and where they are in their lives, and accept them as such. That doesn't mean I have to like it, but I can't WANT for them to be different MORE than they want it for themselves. I guess it comes down to what I'm willing to tolerate. :D
Now, for me, I've talked this subject to death and am done with it.
Is everyone ready for the Eps, 20 thread to open for speculation yet? :D
Haesslich
2008-08-16, 19:25
Incidentally, subs are out. The reason it was delayed was, and I quote gg, "MAI HANEII wanted cakes, so..." and thus Antique Bakery came out first.
OK... much water under the bridge in the last 14 hours, but not much progress.... eh? :D
Let's take a look at time for a moment (moment in time? heh!) I look at the series as having happened over a period of time that probably hasn't even encompassed a year.... Does anyone KNOW definitively how much time has passed by now? If they've been showing a timeline, I've been too busy looking at cool explosions & listening to the soundtrack to notice that detail... :p AND because of the apparent brief period of time we are talking about, (BTW, The only thing I have trouble suspending disbelief over is the time it takes to make a film, like Bird Human and get it into the theatre.) whether mature or immature, I can't actually imagine Ranka CHANGING any more than she has, which arguably is little to none at all, except in willingness to take risks more than she did in the beginning.
Even watching the show over months, I'm not disappointed, I'm instead excited that things seem to be coming to a head. I'd be frustrated if she was inconsistent, but I don't see Ranka being that way, so I can deal with who she is... But that's a skill. I take people as they are and where they are in their lives, and accept them as such. That doesn't mean I have to like it, but I can't WANT for them to be different MORE than they want it for themselves. I guess it comes down to what I'm willing to tolerate. :D
Now, for me, I've talked this subject to death and am done with it.
Is everyone ready for the Eps, 20 thread to open for speculation yet? :D
It's been 4 or 5 months since Sheryl arrived on Frontier.
magnuskn
2008-08-16, 19:50
You know what I hate? That Swampy makes a bunch of excellent arguments, and everybody ignores him to natter on about shallowness.
Or maybe I am just pissed off that the same happened to a pretty long post of mine one page ago.
In any case, excellent post, Swampstorm!
It's been 4 or 5 months since Sheryl arrived on Frontier.
Thank you very much... That helps with perspective...
Sleepy100
2008-08-16, 20:40
I've seen a number of excellent points made regarding this episode in the earlier discussion, but many of these were buried under a pile of angry accusations regarding shipping and bias. The main problem, I think, was in how these ideas were expressed.
I'm not really interested in delving into Ranka's character too much here, but seeing the latest batch of replies, I think that these issues need to be seen for what they really are. You might not agree with any of them, but hopefully you'll at least see the reasoning on which these arguments were based.
Ranka's Goals:
In episode three, Ranka tells Alto that she wants to sing professionally because she wants people to hear her. It's essentially a desire to prove her existance: being trapped in the emergency shelter made her realize that she didn't want to die unrecognized by the people around her. Her dream of becoming a professional singer was her path to self-actualization: to leave her footprints on the sands of time.
Ranka's decision to become Frontier's weapon in the battle against the Vajra was an extension of that. The government placed her in a situation in which her singing could make a difference to save lives. In so doing, Ranka was placed in a position to achieve her dream. With the people of Frontier hanging on to her every word, she finally had a chance to leave her mark on society.
This episode, and to a lesser extent, episode seventeen, subverts this character build-up.
In episode seventeen, Ranka resolves her doubts about becoming Frontier's weapon by asking Alto for his opinion. The problem, however, is that Ranka's decision to throw her support behind the military is based solely on gaining Alto's approval, rather than by discussing how this new role fit in with her original dreams.
In episode nineteen, by claiming that Alto is her sole reason for singing, Ranka sets aside her original aspirations to sing and share her music for the sake of everyone. The earlier discussion about feminism ties in here, since by casting aside those dreams, Ranka denies herself her own individuality in the process of trying to enter into a relationship with Alto.
But this situation can be considered outside of a gender specific context, as well. In any relationship, there needs to be a balance between your own needs as an individual and the needs of your partnership. Neglecting one for the sake of the other leads to a very one-sided relationship.
Ranka's role on Frontier:
Now if these concerns don't trouble you so much, an obvious counter-argument that you might make is "Why can't she change her goals?" To be sure, there's something that sounds very romantic about discarding your dreams for the sake of love.
But the problem here is that it's no longer just Ranka's sacrifice to make: it's the sacrifice of all of the people on Frontier. On the path to fame, Ranka agreed to portray herself as a symbol of hope for Frontier. The immense success and fame that Ranka was granted by elevating herself above the status of a mere idol, however, comes at the cost of responsibility.
Again, this ties back to the process by which Ranka made her decision. Had she decided to become Frontier's weapon in order to achieve her original dream of leaving a mark on society, then she would have relished the chance to take up this responsibility. Had she decided that she just wanted to sing for Alto, then she could have returned to those simpler days of singing Aimo to him on the hill.
But because Ranka took action based on a desire to gain Alto's approval, she has placed herself in a position where she does no justice to either her own needs or the needs of the people of Frontier. But part of growing up is in learning to live with the consequences of your decisions.
Ranka's actions during the parade result from and reflect her inability to do this.
Final Scene:
The reason that the last scene provokes a response from the viewers is due to dramatic irony. Ranka doesn't understand the reason why Alto and Sheryl are together on the roof, but the audience does. Ranka's situation is sharply contrasted with Sheryl's throughout the episode. So when you finally see them meet on the roof, and Ranka gets upset over the scene that she sees, the viewers tend to react strongly to the sheer incongruity of the situation. It's very overwhelming to watch.
While we can't blame any of the characters on this last point, it's the actions that they make leading up to this point that provide the tinder for this scene. The final moment is nothing more than the dropping of a lit match.
***
Hopefully that helps clarify these points, since I'd much rather discuss something else. :p
You forgot to mention that Sheryl is dying and Ranka doesn't have a clue about it. So seeing seeing Sheryl in Alto's arm is like a betrayal, and not something innocent. I agree with you on your last sentence. The talk of the triangle is getting boring.
justinstrife
2008-08-16, 20:42
I finally had the free time to watch the 19 Raw...
I like Ranka less and less as time goes on. "Alto-kun... Alto-kun... Alto-kun!" as she's running up the stairs...
Give me a freaking break! This girl is as naive as they come. -bashes head against wall-
Major points for Michael and Klan Klan this episode. Ozma and Kathy were cute together(as their interactions are always fun).
I'm still wanting to push Alto out the airlock, but he had brief moments where I didn't dislike him so much...
Poor Sheryl. She's not catching any breaks here at all. Alto you're going to be too late as long as a certain puppy keeps following you around.
Lostdreams
2008-08-16, 20:43
I finally had the free time to watch the 19 Raw...
I like Ranka less and less as time goes on. "Alto-kun... Alto-kun... Alto-kun!" as she's running up the stairs...
Give me a freaking break! This girl is as naive as they come. -bashes head against wall-
Major points for Michael and Klan Klan this episode. Ozma and Kathy were cute together(as their interactions are always fun).
I'm still wanting to push Alto out the airlock, but he had brief moments where I didn't dislike him so much...
Poor Sheryl. She's not catching any breaks here at all. Alto you're going to be too late as long as a certain puppy keeps following you around.
ooh i wanna see the puppy!!! I never saw a puppy follow Alto around. Is it invisible? What color is the puppy
You forgot to mention that Sheryl is dying and Ranka doesn't have a clue about it. So seeing seeing Sheryl in Alto's arm is like a betrayal, and not something innocent.
Why is it betrayal, its not like Ranka and Alto were in a serious relationship to begin with. Ranka's own delusional point of view is simply unfortunate.
- Tak
justinstrife
2008-08-16, 20:58
ooh i wanna see the puppy!!! I never saw a puppy follow Alto around. Is it invisible? What color is the puppy
http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/Macross/Macross%20Frontier%20-%2019%20-%20Large%2020.jpg
lone_wolf
2008-08-16, 20:58
ooh i wanna see the puppy!!! I never saw a puppy follow Alto around. Is it invisible? What color is the puppy
You do know that the "puppy" is just a metaphor, right?
--Lone Wolf
一匹狼
ooh i wanna see the puppy!!! I never saw a puppy follow Alto around. Is it invisible? What color is the puppy
As you can see from Justinstrife's post above, a very eager green puppy.:heh:
justinstrife
2008-08-16, 21:11
You do know that the "puppy" is just a metaphor, right?
--Lone Wolf
一匹狼
I love metaphors. :cool:
Lostdreams
2008-08-16, 21:14
http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/Macross/Macross%20Frontier%20-%2019%20-%20Large%2020.jpg
I think you got the wrong pic there. That's a pic of Ranka. I love metaphors too
justinstrife
2008-08-16, 21:21
No. I got the exact picture I was looking for.
I can find another if you want. It has more emphasis on the hair...
lone_wolf
2008-08-16, 21:25
No. I got the exact picture I was looking for.
I can find another if you want. It has more emphasis on the hair...
I suppose Mongrel would be another description since she's a mixed breed.
--Lone Wolf
一匹狼
justinstrife
2008-08-16, 21:31
I suppose Mongrel would be another description since she's a mixed breed.
--Lone Wolf
一匹狼
Very good point. :heh:
Lostdreams
2008-08-16, 21:40
... you guys are mean. Gosh, I'm just a little slow. The "dog" is Ranka.
justinstrife
2008-08-16, 21:44
Have you even been watching the same show as us? :heh:
aneeshadc
2008-08-16, 21:51
lol.You guys crack me up. Luv the very apt metaphor. i must say its getting quite hard to adore this particular puppy though. She's really regressing every passing episode. Its so frustrating that the subs havnt been released yet. Though the raw is pretty self explanatory and so are all of your posts. I'must've popped in here a hundred times already except for when iwas diligently working
justinstrife
2008-08-16, 21:56
GG's sub is out. :)
too bad it's too power hungry for this old PC to run. :(
mike_s_6
2008-08-16, 21:56
The .ass file is already in gg's site:
http://ggkthx.org/Scripts/MacF/
Hearing Ranka fans bring up words like "betrayal" make me laugh, they pulled the same shit in episode 5, I'm sorry guys and girls but her name is Ranka Lee not Ranka Saotome. On a side note I burn with rage seeing that above pic, somebody put that mongrel down.
mike_s_6
2008-08-16, 22:15
Just to be honest... I feel worse seeing that Ranka photo than seeing the Leon x Cathy one. Ranka looks so wrongly drawn on that scene.
Sleepy100
2008-08-16, 22:18
Why is it betrayal, its not like Ranka and Alto were in a serious relationship to begin with. Ranka's own delusional point of view is simply unfortunate.
- Tak
Meh, I should have worded it better. Rejection is the word. It's like watching the person you really like in the arms of your rival. Even though you already told that person you like them. I should point out though, that Alto isn't in a serious relationship with Sheryl either. Though I have to admit that it is starting to feel like Alto is a two-timer.
Oh and I'm not a fan of Sheryl or Ranka or any characters in general for that matter, Westlo.
Lostdreams
2008-08-16, 22:21
Meh, I should have worded it better. Rejection is the word. It's like watching the person you really like in the arms of your rival. Even though you already told that person you like them. I should point out though, that Alto isn't in a serious relationship with Sheryl either. Though I have to admit that it is starting to feel like Alto is a two-timer.
Oh and I'm not a fan of Sheryl or Ranka or any characters in general for that matter, Westlo.
not serious with Sheryl?
Watch the amv that I posted about. Shows how serious they are.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=64731&page=3
http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/Macross/Macross%20Frontier%20-%2019%20-%20Large%2020.jpg
Oh come on everyone... It's a really nice image! Freaky and a bit scary too, but look at the determination in those eyes! That's tricky to capture! :D
That'd be a great picture to hang inside a refrigerator, so when your spouse opened it.... WOW! :p
justinstrife
2008-08-16, 22:24
The .ass file is already in gg's site:
http://ggkthx.org/Scripts/MacF/
Thank you much. Cookies to you. :)
mike_s_6
2008-08-16, 22:24
Oh come on everyone... It's a really nice image! Freaky and a bit scary too, but look at the determination in those eyes! That's tricky to capture! :D
That'd be a great picture to hang inside a refrigerator, so when your spouse opened it.... WOW! :p
*bangs head on wall, hopes it removes the image*
Thank you much. Cookies to you. :)
No prob, glad to help :) I just open it in notepad, minimize the window to one line, and scroll down. I don't download raws you see XD
Lostdreams
2008-08-16, 22:25
Oh come on everyone... It's a really nice image! Freaky and a bit scary too, but look at the determination in those eyes! That's tricky to capture! :D
That'd be a great picture to hang inside a refrigerator, so when your spouse opened it.... WOW! :p
after like two days, that pics been over used so much I feel like it's getting old. Still looks ugly though.
aneeshadc
2008-08-16, 22:25
GG's sub is out. :)
too bad it's too power hungry for this old PC to run. :(
Do you mean torrents & downloads and such.... cos no matter hw much i try...i am unable to down load them onto my laptop... just cant, so I've stopped.
justinstrife
2008-08-16, 22:25
Oh come on everyone... It's a really nice image! Freaky and a bit scary too, but look at the determination in those eyes! That's tricky to capture! :D
That'd be a great picture to hang inside a refrigerator, so when your spouse opened it.... WOW! :p
Mine would probably have a heart-attack. :heh::heh:
aneeshadc
2008-08-16, 22:27
just patiently waiting for the subbed eppys.......rreally patiently
justinstrife
2008-08-16, 22:27
Do you mean torrents & downloads and such.... cos no matter hw much i try...i am unable to down load them onto my laptop... just cant, so I've stopped.
yes i meant torrents gomen.
Bahh the .ass file is a liiitttle off on shinsen_raws' version of the video. :( drats.
ooh i wanna see the puppy!!! I never saw a puppy follow Alto around. Is it invisible? What color is the puppy
What ?
As you can see from Justinstrife's post above, a very eager green puppy.:heh:
Who ?
I can find another if you want. It has more emphasis on the hair...
OOOooo
I suppose Mongrel would be another description since she's a mixed breed.
-Lone Wolf
一匹狼
Good hint !
... you guys are mean. Gosh, I'm just a little slow. The "dog" is Ranka.
Thanks !
Hearing Ranka fans bring up words like "betrayal" make me laugh, they pulled the same shit in episode 5, I'm sorry guys and girls but her name is Ranka Lee not Ranka Saotome. On a side note I burn with rage seeing that above pic, somebody put that mongrel down.
Cool down ! ;)
Just to be honest... I feel worse seeing that Ranka photo than seeing the Leon x Cathy one. Ranka looks so wrongly drawn on that scene.
:D
Well looks like you guys are having fun......... may I join ?
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9959/anime0011tr1.png
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1489/anime0008jb5.png
We should use pix for the poll with the favorite character... seemingly, Ranka has high chance to catch up against HIM! :heh::heh: :heh:
Sleepy100
2008-08-16, 22:37
not serious with Sheryl?
Watch the amv that I posted about. Shows how serious they are.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=64731&page=3
It looks one-sided to me. Besides, Alto would have done the same if it was Ranka in trouble. Perfect example is when Alto went berserk with his Armored pack in Episode 14.
Oh and please don't reply to this post. There's enough Sheryl shippers vs Ranka shippers around without drawing me into it.
The problem with comparing those pics to the Ranka one is that while the Sheryl ones are clearly drawn by the work experience kid (who clearly doesn't like Michael) the Ranka one wasn't. I think the reaction they wanted was "Sooooooo Mooooooooooeeeeeee ^_________^" too bad they got the opposite!
vBulletin® v3.8.6, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.