View Full Version : what is that other sign...
luisa081
2004-02-10, 01:32
what is that red sign, looks like a question mark, on Al's left arm and back of Ed's red jacket. also in the new opening, it's drawn over the transmutation circle
and another question, in the new ending, Ed's hair is like green, does that mean anything?
Dark_Sun
2004-02-10, 01:40
i dont know what the mark is but...the hair..has nothing to do with anything.
Sakura-chan
2004-02-10, 01:47
what is that red sign, looks like a question mark, on Al's left arm and back of Ed's red jacket. also in the new opening, it's drawn over the transmutation circle
and another question, in the new ending, Ed's hair is like green, does that mean anything?
The one with the snake and the cross? I dunno, maybe it's some sign representating alchemy. :confused:
And I don't think that Ed's green hair means anything but that the ending was drawn by not so good animators. :heh:
i read in another post on the forums thast its probably an element sign. look a few threads back i think youll find it
Forsaken102
2004-02-10, 03:47
I think it's the symbol for Soul Alchemy.... Personally, of course. :p
I mean, the seal in Al's armor has something similar, I believe.... but I'd have to check back and see to be sure.
Asakura_Y0h
2004-02-10, 04:39
I think it's the symbol for Soul Alchemy.... Personally, of course. :p
I mean, the seal in Al's armor has something similar, I believe.... but I'd have to check back and see to be sure.
can't be right? cause what would happen if his jacket got burnt....?
Forsaken102
2004-02-11, 01:01
(*laughs*) I don't think it's required on Ed's jacket, because the whole thing's (the jacket, I mean) been destroyed soo many times... and Al's still kickin'.
I think it's a symbolic design for Ed and Al, because.. well. Anywho. I guess we all get to draw our own opinions. :)
actualy I think you are probably right with it having somthing to do with soul alchemy. Yet I doubt the jacket in general has any thing to do with that. The logo just looks cool so he put it on his jacket. probly hoping to find some one that will recignize it. As if he does, he knows he has found some one that is well versed in his field of study.
same with Al's arm. just an advertisment.
Sakura-chan
2004-02-11, 01:22
I guess we all get to draw our own opinions. :)
Maybe it's just an "Elric" symbol? Well, you know? Or maybe not. <|>_<|>;
I thought that it was an alchemy sigh because the pharmaceutics symbol(I think that's what that one stands for. >.< ) is kinda similar, it has alike looking snake, only instead of the cross, there is a bowl, or something like that. ^^;; And those are both are categories of some kind of science. Kinda. Um, yeah. ^^;;
alot of families in europe used to have their own crest. perhaps this is just the Elric's crest? i dunno, but i do see it everywhere on the show. so it may have something to do with alchemy. or it might just be a cool lil' logo.
my guess is that it might be a element sign...... since onli al and edward have it.... its probably *metal* ??
maybe i dunno just a guess
ShinDragon
2004-02-11, 14:04
http://home.graffiti.net/gaigar/Ed-Logo.gif
You are talking about this symbol here?
Sorry... I don't know what it means either....
i dont' think its a family crest type of thing. When they showed their house in the first couple episodes i don't remember seeing it anywhere. I'm betting it has something to do with alchemy.
MrMonkey
2004-02-11, 17:25
I think its just a symbol for alchemy, like the pharmecutical symbol thing.
hobobaggins
2004-02-12, 00:41
http://home.graffiti.net/gaigar/Ed-Logo.gif
You are talking about this symbol here?
Sorry... I don't know what it means either....
Is that not the symbol of the hyppocratic oath, and not to kill
and it is medical in general. not just drugs+medicine :P
It might be "Serpent nailed to a Cross"(Nicholas Flamel's Hieroglyphic Symbols).
The Alchemy web - Flammel's Hieroglyphics
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/flam_h0.html
Ookla The Mok
2004-02-12, 11:29
http://home.graffiti.net/gaigar/Ed-Logo.gifit's used all over the place in the manga ever since the beginning... it didn't just all of a sudden show up in these episodes.
seiji-chan
2004-02-15, 21:53
hmm, never knew much about Flamel, but that is eerily like his serpent nailed to a cross.
Ed's logo, which looks exactly like Flamel's, seems obviously based on Christian symbolism, in which case the serpent would be the Devil who lures humankind away from God through forbidden knowledge--and i can't think of a much more blasphemous science than human alchemy. if anyone's committed the ultimate sin of "playing God," it's the alchemists, and the Elric brothers in particular.
so then, has the crucified serpent been defeated? or is Ed's serpent embracing or strangling the cross? and the winged crown must be Christ, but is He condoning, condemning, or simply observing our boys' struggles?
the boys keep saying that God will never forgive them for human alchemy, so is the logo a badge of shame, a warning to others, or a plea for divine mercy?
or all of the above? or am i completely off the mark?
i sure do love pondering. ^_^
I don't belive it was mentioned that god would never forgive them. but they do look at thier current bodies as punishment. (in ed's case that is not much of a punishment. Bad boy, here get much stronger with a bit of pain.)
Although he did say even if you go to god, he will just send you back. so who knows what ed found out during that transmutation. But he does seem to have a good understanding of heavenly forces, more so than most.
diabolistic
2004-02-15, 23:09
Is that not the symbol of the hyppocratic oath, and not to kill
and it is medical in general. not just drugs+medicine :P
Ya.. the symbol of the snake and wand originates from Greece.. the caduceus was a wand used by Hermes, who presided over commerce, wrestling, and other gymnastic exercises, even over thieving, and everything, in short, which required skill and dexterity....(medicine... and alchemy)
i like how ed and al have the a symbol resembling the caduceus .. it shows how their alchemy is more .. medicinal than harmful (the fact that they're trying to regain their lost limbs adds to this)
i'm a classics whore.. so shoot me :heh:
kanazuchi
2004-02-15, 23:15
It might be "Serpent nailed to a Cross"(Nicholas Flamel's Hieroglyphic Symbols).
The Alchemy web - Flammel's Hieroglyphics
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/flam_h0.html
Nice find. I read through all of it, but couldn't find any mention of a meaning to the crucifyed snake? I may be over looking something so please let me know if I did. Id really like to know what the symbol means, Ive been looking for a center peice to finish my tatoo on my back, and that would be perfect, but Id like to know what it means before I think about putting something like that on....
kanazuchi
2004-02-15, 23:18
After some more searching I found this: http://altreligion.about.com/bldefsserpentcross.htm
Pretty interesting stuff.
NOTE: Opinions and ideas below may be incredibly fallable
Interesting thread. When I started watching the show, I felt sure that I recognised the symbol as derivitive of a sign for alchemy as the devils knowledge from Europe in the middle ages. (before alchemical studies was tamed into pharmaceuticals and normal ¨chemistry¨) (remember that the barbers were the doctors of the time also- I wont go into the transfer of medical responsibiilties here). The cross represented the christian dogmas of the time and the serpent was satanic in origin, symbolising the perversion of gods nature while expressing through the serpents sacrifice on the cross its superiority (the symbol is much older, and had many different interpretations over time but I?l skip that). The Alchemists would justify themselves to the church by saying that they were taking the devils power from him by stealing his knowledge or somesuch (I may be wrong here).
Having considered my extremely hazy memory regarding these factors, I concluded that the references in the show to ¨Those who went against god" to some extent explained this symbol. Further, that this symbol could represent the alchemists in general, but that Ed and AL wear them as a badge to say who they are, taking responsibility for their actions.
Then I read this thread :D the Flamel stuff, and the Caduceus - I had not thought to consider them. The caduceus being picked up in christian symbolism was to be expected, and so there is meaning of a variety of forms embedded in it. After all, the ancient greeks would have been considered ¨heathen"or at the verry least pagan by the christains of pre-contemporary Europe. Alchemy was certainly not viewed favourably by the church at that time, so this too fits.
Add into this mix Alchemy as it is in Ed and Als world: They are innocent, naive in a way, as we have seen - believing alchemy to be for the good of the people, and we often see in the show that the government is not allways so alltruistic in its intentions. However, there are two central rules stated in the show - you are not to transmute gold, and you are not to transmute humans. I don? know about the humans thing - that heads down the road to Necromancy, which was far worse than alchemy to be accused of, but I do know that transmuting gold was a central goal of the alchemists of Europe. Taking that along with the reversal of powers (religious organisations in the show being the ones without power while the alchemists are a key to the governance of the society) and we are given a verry interesting alternative history.
So to cut a long winded babble short, I see that symbol as being a very important piece of the shows decor. This is a show that plays with symbolism from a variety of areas, and takes an alternative path to human history that draws upon ellements from around the world. could go on for days about the symbolism of the country they inhabit - with its mysterious eastern provences and its central city. It seems very middle Eurpean to me. (consider the use of the term Furher, and the semi nazi military stylings)
As for the symbol - It is NOT just a symbol. But it does make for a gold mine of merchandising though :D
Ookla The Mok
2004-02-16, 10:43
I always assumed the caduceus was from the Old Testament, when the israelites were attacked by fiery flying serpents, and anyone who was bitten died--Moses put a brass serpent up on a pole, and whoever looked at it would live, but some people thought it was stupid so they didn't look and therefore died. This is interpreted in light of the New Testament as being a symbol of Christ.
kanazuchi
2004-02-16, 15:13
Well the symbol of the crucified serpent is the alchemical symbol for taking the volotile out of something, and most of the descriptions I found use mercury as an example, taking the poison out of mercury and turning into silver. The thing that bugs me the most is the winged crown. I cant find anything about it, other then a guess that its a symbol for mercury (the god wore a winged hat). Anybody care to share there insight about it, maybe something Im missing?
Actually there might be a much simpler answer to all of this...
The Elrics might be sporting the symbols just out of respect to, or to show that, their sensei is Izumi Curtis who sports a tattoo of that symbol.
wow so symbolic.... but its the coolest symbol in the whole series apart from the seal on mustang's ignition cloth
NightWalker XI
2004-02-21, 08:08
wow so symbolic.... but its the coolest symbol in the whole series apart from the seal on mustang's ignition cloth
I thought that was just a normal alchemy array but in red?
SamGadsby
2004-02-23, 18:35
Did a quick search on google for 'snake around a cross' and got this from apollonius.net
In Christian lore, the good snake is seen in iconography as rising from the chalice of Saint John. The serpent is depicted as wound around a cross and is sometimes portrayed with the icon of a woman's head to symbolize lust and temptation. The snake at the foot of the cross is evil, and in that position symbolizes the triumph over evil and the removal of the powers of "darkness."
Don't if that's just coincidence, an incorrect description, or the animators took some liberty with it. I don't have a picture that matches that description.
The medical symbol isn't on a cross, it's a rod with wings, and two snakes.
http://www.tims.com/images/caduceus_2.gif
kanazuchi
2004-02-23, 20:42
Im almost 100% possitive that the symbol it is supposed to be the alchemical symbol for the "fixing of the volatile. http://altreligion.about.com/library/graphics/symbols/serpentcross.jpg
http://altreligion.about.com/bldefsserpentcross.htm
^--and article about it.
I thought that was just a normal alchemy array but in red?
yeah but i reckon it looks cool!
SamGadsby
2004-02-24, 00:47
If you go to the official website http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/Animation/hagaren/ it has that symbol on the top left, but with more detail. It has the wings of the medical symbol.
http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/Animation/hagaren/image/navtv0.gif
If you go to the official website http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/Animation/hagaren/ it has that symbol on the top left, but with more detail. It has the wings of the medical symbol.
http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/Animation/hagaren/image/navtv0.gif
Didn't even need to go that far:) look left... (Yes, it was my avatar from the time I signed up here :D )
Well, ever since i saw the series for the first time, i couldn't help making a link between The Philosophers Stone in this serie and the one in Harry Potter.
I know this seems childish, but a lot of things in Harry Potter are based on folklore.
As i read the text on the site http://www.levity.com/alchemy/flam_h0.html it all came back to me. In the first book of Harry there's a character named *surprise* Nicholas Flamel. He was in the Harry book the one who made the philosophers stone and therefor lived over 500 years (correct me if im wrong, it's been a while since i read the books).
i couldn't help noticing the link... :uhoh:
kanazuchi
2004-02-26, 19:03
Am I the only one hear who thinks its the alchemical symbol??
i highly doubt it's an alchemy symbol. those are all geometric (and usually pretty symetric) in design. beyond that, they're usually based around or within a circle (or at least all the ones that come to memory are...)
i think it's probably what they've adopted to be "their" symbol. still not sure what it means, though, as i've done no research on this stuff... i'll just go with whatever the current popular consensus is, i suppose.
kanazuchi
2004-02-27, 01:25
All my research is posted above. From what Ive found, it seems to be a version of the crucified serpent, which is an alchemical symbol.
Asakura_Y0h
2004-02-27, 23:36
Are u saying its an alchemic array or a symbol that represents alchemists in general... as in a symbol used to signify and alchemist as in like a police badge for police.
ShadowBloodAlchemist
2006-01-05, 15:07
Okay, so obviously, MOST (Perhaps not all ^^) of you, haven't gotten ALL THE WAY to the END of the story. The Symbol with the cross and serpent is in SOME ways like the Orobouras symbol, only the exact opposite! (If that makes sence...?) The cross and serpent is like a symbol that shows that you're human... kinda. Izumi also has the symbol tatooed on her chest.
gundamfan80
2006-01-13, 15:26
Ya.. the symbol of the snake and wand originates from Greece.. the caduceus was a wand used by Hermes, who presided over commerce, wrestling, and other gymnastic exercises, even over thieving, and everything, in short, which required skill and dexterity....(medicine... and alchemy)
like diabolistic stated its just a caduceus, the biggest reason they sport it would be that they inherited it from izumi and she inturn inherited it from dante
lune_decente
2006-05-01, 11:39
e sign is an egyptian symbol for alchemy. and alchemy did exist at one point in time for those of you with any doubts. alchemy was the begining of chemistry and astronomy. issac newton was an alchemist. nicholas flammel was also an alchemist. for any one who dosent know who he is he is mentiond in harry potter for makeing the sorcerors stone. in reality he is famous for the creation of the philosephers stone. in turn gaining riches and eternal life.
purplecatlily
2006-05-21, 00:10
Remember that Izumi has that same sign above her chest? Well Izumi inherited that from dante and the elric brothers inherited that same sign from thier teacher. It is similar to the nicolas flamel.
fmafanatic
2006-05-23, 05:06
yes origionally from the family the person was from before dante took ova her body also represents human used to bind.. kil a homonculis
The Greed
2006-06-18, 16:16
I think its something with the human transmutation to do. Its a snake, right? And everyone i've seen in the show that has done an human transmutation has it. Ed and Al has it because they did a human transmutation on their mother, and their teacher did it on her son. She also have that mark. And when you think about it, all the humunculi have a mark with a snake. Like everything has a connection. They have that mark sinse they did a transmutation, and the humunculi have it sinse they are the transmutation.
It's a Christian symbol representing a story of Moses.
Desdemona
2007-07-22, 16:21
Ed, Al and Izumi's Insignia: The Flamel Snake:
The Flamel Snake symbol references Nicolas (also spelled Nicholas) Flamel (1330 - 1418); who rose from being a humble Parisian bookseller to become one of the most famous alchemists of his day - and beyond.
Supposed possessor of the legendary Philosopher's Stone, Flamel and his wife, Pernelle were rumored to be still alive centuries after their recorded deaths.
This is the same Nicholas Flamel mentioned in "Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone" (British title: "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone").
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