Macross Frontier - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Jazzrat]

Sheryl not knowing how to use chopsticks could very well be traced back to her being a street urchin and never having gone to school ( basically being raised by Grace, who wouldn´t put much importance on social, uh, graces ) before arriving on Frontier.

She knew how to apologize by bowing ( though that looked more Chinese than Japanese ) in episode 6.

I think she had more social ettiquette training than most with her being an idol and all :p prolly just not trained on how to use a chopstick.

[kilroy0097]

Torrent for [gg] Macross Frontier - 25 [A3CDD196].mkv (702.83 MB) (http://xabin.mine.nu/gg-tracker/torrents/%5Bgg%5D_Macross_Frontier_-_25_%5BA3CDD196%5D.mkv.torrent) is out! Grab it and start sucking it down you leeches.

http://b.imagehost.org/0308/vf25ex.gif

[grss1982]

Torrent for [gg] Macross Frontier - 25 [A3CDD196].mkv (702.83 MB) (http://xabin.mine.nu/gg-tracker/torrents/%5Bgg%5D_Macross_Frontier_-_25_%5BA3CDD196%5D.mkv.torrent) is out! Grab it and start sucking it down you leeches.

WTF!!!??? 702MB?? :confused:

[Schneizel]

702mb, 2 audio tracks, 4 sub tracks, and like 20 fonts. FUCK YEAH MACROSS!

[Crimson Cloud]

One important thing , why Alto flashback his memory

I'm still not voted this EP yet (wait to see subs). But in my mind now.
-1 kill my Grace
-1 Michel die waste
-1 Ranka slaps my Sheryl(and red palm on her face)
-1 magic healing
-1 Luca is undead pilot
-1 Ozma is undead pilot
-1 dirty trick ending to make OVA or Movie.
-1 they keep Varja+Ai-kun but Kill Galaxy
-1 Mitchel's sniper gun but use as closed range weapon.

+1 Minmay picture
+1 Klan is not dead
+1 Sheryl is not dead
+1 battle scene
+1 Yagami Light's style.
+1 Nude scene
+1 Kabuki flashback

Hell thats a good sum up, except I didn't care for Grace that much.

702mb, 2 audio tracks, 4 sub tracks, and like 20 fonts. FUCK YEAH MACROSS!
It's a shame that this will be the last Macross I'll download for a while, but hell that came fast. :)

[FLCL]

im just going to wait for lunars avi

[Kamina-san]

Just finished watching subbed finale. The ending was good, but the series was great.

[kilroy0097]

Ok so it was even better the 2nd time around. Now that I had the subtitles to help me. I'd give it an 11/10 if I could.

In honor of end of the series until the movie I will say goodbye to my sexy Grace O'Connor avatar - http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/3582/gracehopesanddream3xf3.gif and instead take my new yanked VF25EX Alto Salute to Sheryl Avatar and put it in it's place. Grace will be back oh yes she will to sex you up with her eeeeevil. ;)

There was a misconception or at least a confusion on one of the scenes we saw about how many fighters Quarter could carry. While this doesn't answer it, it explains that what we saw wasn't what we thought we saw.


This is Macross Quarter coming back in with it's reinforcements. All the ones next to Quarter and in the foreground. Those are the squadron from Quarter.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3789/macrossquarterreinforcewq3.th.png (http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=macrossquarterreinforcewq3.png)http://img513.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

This picture shows Quarter going into a charge attack after Ranka and Sheryl combine their songs. Captain Wilder takes charge and orders everyone still flying to join them in the charge. Hence you have Quarter and Frontier squadrons in flight in this picture. A mix of forces.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/4159/quarterchargexx4.th.png (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quarterchargexx4.png)http://img264.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)


There was also some question as to if the Birdman from Macross Zero was superior to the Vajra Queen entity. We didn't know if Protoculture race came before or after the Vajra. Well according to Grace it's the following...


http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9672/protocultureoriginuk4.th.png (http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=protocultureoriginuk4.png)http://img515.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

According to Grace, the race of Protoculture admired or feared the Vajra so much as to imitate them. I don't quite see that as conclusive as the Vajra could have easily been a branch off Protoculture if they came to visit the plant. So as I said in the spoiler tag title, What came first? The Proto-chicken or the Vajra-egg? Still up for debate in my opinion.


And lastly, just because this scene with it's action and the particular music playing at that time and because it's fricken awesome, is one of my favorite in the finale and the season.


http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/267/altobrerabacktobackis7.th.png (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altobrerabacktobackis7.png)http://img204.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

Macross Rocks!

http://b.imagehost.org/0308/vf25ex.gif
I salute you!

[Urei]

Yeah, if there's something I hate about this Kawamori surprise project is the time we will have to wait.

[glyph]

Hi all, first post (can't believe i register just for this)

Well, first i have to say that i favour Ranka more than Sheryl, so Sheryl fans...try ignore my first post plz

To all those symbolism, I have a counter example for Ranka Fans:

In the last scene, when Alto flying towards both girls, notice that Ranka is at his right hand side
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9343/macrossfrontier25large5hh4.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=macrossfrontier25large5hh4.jpg)


And in the last scene, he extends his RIGHT HAND only, not left hand, not Both Hands!!! XD
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2931/macrossfrontier25large5hp2.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=macrossfrontier25large5hp2.jpg)

Rewatch that scene again and have a sweet dream, Ranka Fans!!!

Here's a thought. Why is Alto extending his hand? How do two people naturally grip each other's hands?
Now notice which girl has which hand extended to Alto hoping to share his sky. :heh:

Not that it means much, since I expect the movie to shake things up a bit anyway.

[hai_san]

Damn Kawamori he choose the "easy" way out, we have a "tie" atm... hopefully the upcoming Movie will resolve this...


Anyway i give it a "10" because even when there was no conclusion but the animatons + music are amazing.

p.s : it is really kind of unfair that some of us could understand jap and watch the raws first then make a "700" Post diskussion already, while the rest have to wait for the sub, all diskussion/arguments are already maded...

gogo Warshippers there is still time to the Movie whose side will have the better arguments till then...

[Matrim]

Worst ending ever.

[Father Hentai]

mousaka already told most but there are far more hints set in the last episodes, that it is very sure who will make the race in the love triangle.

I watched from a neutral point of view in regards to the love triangle. but with every episode it has shown up that the triangle will end with alto x sheryl. When some will start comparing with macross series or with DYRL (what I did), then the more you will understand why alto x sheryl and not alto x ranka.

btw. regarding Bilrer and the picture of Minmay

I guess he is Britai, the commander who switched side in DYRL. I am thinking more and more about that when I was thinking of his head implant and the peacefull face he had when he closed his ring

[RVA37]

Pros:
- Some epic fights
- Nice to see those Macross Plus ghosts make a cameo
- Alto didn't give in to the women...girls aint nothin but trouble, he stayed true to the game, way to stay true to your real love -- the sky
- Alto is a pimp, he can wear an earing and look all girly but still have the most game in the galaxy

Cons:
- Too rushed...felt like it should have been split over 2-3 episodes
- Didn't care too much about the lame little go team 3 person hand shake one pilot two wings whatever nonsense
- Aside from the non resolved triangle, everything else was 100% predictable.

5/10 - Below Average

[Wesley84]

...Sheryl basically helped to murder the homeland she supposedly cared so much about.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Because he's not done telling stories in the Frontier setting, whereas the story was finished in the others?

Oh, come on! Poor excuse! I thought you'd add something more elaborated than this.:p Honestly, who needs a balanced love triangle to set up the next chapter, especially when it's anticlimatic to everything that was built for a while already?

If some people are having hopes for the movie, my only wish would be for Alto to be as cutting as Hikaru was in DYRL when he ditched Minmay... something which could have been cleared by now.

[KiraYamatoFan]

btw. regarding Bilrer and the picture of Minmay

I guess he is Britai, the commander who switched side in DYRL. I am thinking more and more about that when I was thinking of his head implant and the peacefull face he had when he closed his ring

I'd put my money on Bilrer being Britai as well. I wouldn't be surprised and it would be welcome to see him again after all the years.

[cerrian]

I just saw it...wow...it was kinda bad. :mad:

[Ashlotte]

A grade Mecha Porn and some fantastic music...What a great way to end the series.

I don't even really mind that they ended with the Triangle unresolved...Bring on the threesome I say... :heh:

[Tak]

I'd put my money on Bilrer being Britai as well. I wouldn't be surprised and it would be welcome to see him again after all the years.

I highly doubt he is Britai.

If he was Britai, did you think he'd let Leon do what he wants? He is the supreme commander of the UN SPACY NAVY for crying out loud.

Never mind that they don't have the right VA. :p

- Tak

[finalnight]

Just watched the sub, is it me or did they never show the Macross Battle Frontier transform? How lame, we waited a whole series and they didnt even show the transform sequence.

Also, never showed Frontier fire its main gun. I guess moneyshots are saved for the movie.

[Father Hentai]

...Sheryl basically helped to murder the homeland she supposedly cared so much about.

If you mean the Macross Galaxy, not really. She may have cared about them due to the fact that they were almost eliminated by the vajra, but in fact she hated that ship where she had bad memories of.

@finalnight
Battle frontier transformed in Episode 24.

[finalnight]

If you mean the Macross Galaxy, not really. She may have cared about them due to the fact that they were almost eliminated by the vajra, but in fact she hated that ship where she had bad memories of.

@finalnight
Battle frontier transformed in Episode 24.

They didn't show it, I checked 24. They showed Frontier finishing its transform in the radar room at the start of 25.

[zalem]

Hmmmm....upon watching it again I did end up enjoying it more. I still think the series needed an episode or 2 more, but it didn't feel quite so rushed the second time around. I'm still disappointed that we didn't get to see Battle Galaxy really fight though...

[Jazzrat]

...Sheryl basically helped to murder the homeland she supposedly cared so much about.

I think Battle Galaxy is just the warship/carrier for the Macross Galaxy group. Wouldnt be surprised if it's just an empty ship controlled by the collective conciousness of Grace and her cohort, heck even her fighters are the unmanned Ghost.

[Tak]

The Battle Galaxy is a tow ship, just as the Battle Frontier tows Island I. Its not the colony Galaxy.

- Tak

[Mughi]

The Battle Galaxy is a tow ship, just as the Battle Frontier tows Island I. Its not the colony Galaxy.

- Tak

Yep, pretty much a tug. I LOVED the series overall and really enjoyed the ride, but in the end I was disappointed Kawamori didn't do more with it... Battle Galaxy ended up like a lame gun barge, just standing here like so much cannon fodder. It didn't even serve Grace well as a barrier to keep her enemy at bay long enough to put her plan into proper motion... what a sad waste.

The mysterious shots of Galaxy in the beginning of the series promised much intrigue with its interesting untransformed form, and the comments about the populace being highly advanced and implanted... it really set up something that to my mind could have supported a whole new season with Frontier battling the remainders of the Galaxy colony. A whole allegory to the Cold war could have been played out as Galaxy colony might have taken over one side of the planet and Frontier the other, with the Vajra forces randomly attacking both.

But no payoff at all... unless something really extraordinary happens in the movie, then the whole M Galaxy subplot was as big of a waste as including Blirer in the show with zero raison d' etre.

[Wandering_Youth]

Meh. It felt rushed however since they made this one episode the length of two episodes, I guess I'll let it slide. I'm not exactly a hardcore Macross anime fan but I enjoy this latest Macross anime. Still, I got a lot of questions regarding a lot of the scenes in this episode. Questions regarding Biler, Dr. Mao, Ranka's Mom, the relationship between proto-culturer and the vajira.

[zalem]

Yep, pretty much a tug. I LOVED the series overall and really enjoyed the ride, but in the end I was disappointed Kawamori didn't do more with it... Battle Galaxy ended up like a lame gun barge, just standing here like so much cannon fodder. It didn't even serve Grace well as a barrier to keep her enemy at bay long enough to put her plan into proper motion... what a sad waste.

The mysterious shots of Galaxy in the beginning of the series promised much intrigue with its interesting untransformed form, and the comments about the populace being highly advanced and implanted... it really set up something that to my mind could have supported a whole new season with Frontier battling the remainders of the Galaxy colony. A whole allegory to the Cold war could have been played out as Galaxy colony might have taken over one side of the planet and Frontier the other, with the Vajra forces randomly attacking both.

But no payoff at all... unless something really extraordinary happens in the movie, then the whole M Galaxy subplot was as big of a waste as including Blirer in the show with zero raison d' etre.

Basically sums up how I feel. The Galaxy plotline was handled very badly. It's a shame because it had the potential to be so awesome.

[muramasa.swordsman]

A grade Mecha Porn and some fantastic music...What a great way to end the series.

I don't even really mind that they ended with the Triangle unresolved...Bring on the threesome I say... :heh:

Agreed. It's the only way to resolve this love triangle. THREESOMES FTW!

[FLCL]

Just watched the sub, is it me or did they never show the Macross Battle Frontier transform? How lame, we waited a whole series and they didnt even show the transform sequence.

Also, never showed Frontier fire its main gun. I guess moneyshots are saved for the movie.

what are you talking about, in fold fame it oblierated the vajra with it

[mechabao]

what are you talking about, in fold fame it oblierated the vajra with it

He meant that they never showed the Frontier firing its main gun in episode 25. Quite ironic that for a mecha porn loaded episode, the battle galaxy and frontier were mostly in the background (mostly doing nothing) with the fighters taking center stage.

[Anh_Minh]

Hee. The romance is somehow less decided than it was in ep24. VF25 did forgive Alto for his transgression, only to be casually trashed after he didn't need it any more. Men can be such bastards.

Also, for the romance involving his penis rather than his heart, Alto made a play for a threesome with Sheryl and Ranka. "You're both my wings." Har. They don't seem totally hostile to the idea, but he'll have to work some more to sell it.

[Harimo Haria]

A great series, ending left me feeling a bit empty but hopefully the movie will fill in that gap.

[germanturkey]

^^ so there is a movie?

anyways, 8/10

excellent space battle, superbly choreographed, amazing music, but it was so rushed and the story so messed that it dropped it down a few points.

like, all of a sudden the Vajra are friends and the last 5 eps of Alto x Sheryl development gets throw out the window? come on.. i loved the Lion duet. excellent.

in the case of a movie, i seriously hope that they do finish off the triangle.

so what i'll take from this series:
Sheryl
the music
the excellent space battles
Sheryl
the ridiculously amazing final fight
Sheryl
That picture of Alto as a girl with sheryl
and that picture of sheryl in white lingerie with the headphones and mp3 player...

did i mention Sheryl?

[Cadorna]

EPICCCC, Awesomeeeee ;)

I give a 9/10 becaue the damn unresolve LT, but the ep was a epic final battle. i think the movie will be a continuation and not a remake, because the other "Villans" ( the onesd behind Grace in shdows ) are still out there, and Galaxy's colony and rest of the fleet too.

Can anyone take a picture from the 11 Macross Fleet and Macross City ( epic homage ep).

[MaiHikari]

Macross was about the music, the fighting, and the romance. MF accomplished the first two but left the third unresolved. Episode 25 was epic for its battle scenes and music remixes, although it was a little rushed.

The goods:
- Remixes of all the good songs
- Excellent mecha action
- Sheryl is cured
- Grace is dead
- Brera and Alto fighting together
- Alto's salute to Sheryl in reference to DYRL

The bads:
- It's convenient that the giant Ranka was not Ranka so the people of Frontier can forgive her.
- Sheryls cure was Ranka's touch; cliche and anticlimatic
- Galaxy is still faceless, only represented by Grace
- Alto ran away from answering the girls again; LT unresolved

The fixes:
- A good movie wrapping up all lose ends!

Ep 25: 8/10
Overall Series: 9/10

[Minari]

can someone explain the salute about reference to DYRL? Like what is the significance of it? Because I never watched it... ^^;;;

[Shouta]

7/10 on the episode

- Action was insane. Lots of cool Macross stuff in it. It was orgasmic.
- Animation was up to snuff for the most part although some of the dancing animation was loose.
- It captured the right feel. On the other hand, the music was all over the place and that was kind of annoying.
- Story was still too compressed and that made the last two eps or so feel really rushed.
- Characters are still a mess and this didn't do anything to actually redeem Ranka, my biggest complaint with the characters, beyond really stupid and superficial means.
- Of course, a non-ending even compared to Mac7.

[glyph]

He meant that they never showed the Frontier firing its main gun in episode 25. Quite ironic that for a mecha porn loaded episode, the battle galaxy and frontier were mostly in the background (mostly doing nothing) with the fighters taking center stage.

Well, you already get to see Battle Galaxy which is a NMC like Battle Frontier fire its main guns, so it's redundant. They'd rather showcase the Macross Pinpoint Barrier Punch and Daedalus (Destroid) attack.

[wolfboy]

I love how they added the Ghosts. Those suckers are faaast.

Also, I never noticed Ranka's family were big as Zentradi. I take it they're permanently micronized now?

http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/Macross/Macross%20Frontier%20-%2025%20-%20Large%2040.jpg

[glyph]

can someone explain the salute about reference to DYRL? Like what is the significance of it? Because I never watched it... ^^;;;

Hikaru salutes Misa on the Macross Bridge in battroid mode just before sortieing on the final bombing run inside the Gorg Boddole Zer Fortress while Minmay sings.

[Wesley84]

I love how they added the Ghosts. Those suckers are faaast.

Also, I never noticed Ranka's family were big as Zentradi. I take it they're permanently micronized now?

http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/Macross/Macross%20Frontier%20-%2025%20-%20Large%2040.jpg

...I think that's a matter of perspective.

[wolfboy]

...I think that's a matter of perspective.

Is it? That's really deceptive then :heh:

[ReddyRedWolf]

can someone explain the salute about reference to DYRL? Like what is the significance of it? Because I never watched it... ^^;;;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzn5VWKg7lY&feature=related
Better if you watch it tons of references in Frontier finale.

[finalnight]

This series showed a lot of similarities to GSD in pacing/structure and the ending is another (yes i realize GSD copied from the other macross's). A rushed thing that showed flashes of greatness that will be patched/upgraded by the movie.

Eternal threesome ftw! :heh:

[Minari]

ahhh i see :D

Thanks. So I would take it Sheryl would be in the lead then in love triangle points? lol

[Kristen]

Macross 25 was the epitome of a climax. To me, the entire Macross series is nothing more than a 10 hour long symphony that carries a story with it. And this was the grand finale, pulling together all the music and feelings of the storyline together into one big conclusion.

Absolutely amazing series, and it's a shame to see it go. I'm guessing it'll be liscenced within a month.

10/10

[Tak]

Absolutely amazing series, and it's a shame to see it go. I'm guessing it'll be liscenced within a month.

10/10

Won't be licensed unless Satelight and Big West sue Harmony Gold over distribution. Would be a distinct possibility, but the music is licensed by yet another corporation. The problem with Macross is that its always multi-licensed, more complicated than most anime out there. Then again, its music also goes on charts, which is what other anime can seldom accomplish.

On the other hand, there will be a movie.

- Tak

[kujoe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzn5VWKg7lY&feature=related
Better if you watch it tons of references in Frontier finale.
Macross: Do you remember love?

Oh yes, yes I do. Still one of the greatest moments in anime ever in my opinion. But it's also kind of funny how this war-like, gigantic race got beaten by a pop singer in a cute outfit. Well, that's Macross for you. :heh:

Won't be licensed unless Satelight and Big West sue Harmony Gold over distribution. Would be a distinct possibility, but the music is licensed by yet another corporation. The problem with Macross is that its always multi-licensed, more complicated than most anime out there. Then again, its music also goes on charts, which is what other anime can seldom accomplish.
But didn't ADV put out a new release of the non-Robotech Macross series? I would like to think that a Macross Frontier US release has a good chance of happening. Considering all the issues involved, it would probably take some time though, even if it were possible.

[golthin]

Won't be licensed unless Satelight and Big West sue Harmony Gold over distribution. Would be a distinct possibility, but the music is licensed by yet another corporation. The problem with Macross is that its always multi-licensed, more complicated than most anime out there. Then again, its music also goes on charts, which is what other anime can seldom accomplish.

On the other hand, there will be a movie.

- Tak

I think the music problem only happened with M7. I don't believe that they used any of the songs from M7 so that shouldn't be a problem

[Ottocycle]

I think the music problem only happened with M7. I don't believe that they used any of the songs from M7 so that shouldn't be a problem
They'll need to mute the background audio tracks used when Ozma was playing Fire Bomber while in his car/room then.

[lone_wolf]

Macross: Do you remember love?

Oh yes, yes I do. Still one of the greatest moments in anime ever in my opinion. But it's also kind of funny how this war-like, gigantic race got beaten by a pop singer in a cute outfit. Well, that's Macross for you. :heh:


But didn't ADV put out a new release of the non-Robotech Macross series? I would like to think that a Macross Frontier US release has a good chance of happening. Considering all the issues involved, it would probably take some time though, even if it were possible.


Here's a good place to start reading up on the legalities:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=164

It's a very sticky situation trying to obtain any Macross Series after the original. The very last Macross series to see US domestic waters is Macross Plus (and that was Manga Entertainment).

Companies since that series, have been trying to bring over other Macross incarnations but have failed.


--Lone Wolf
一匹狼

[Tak]

I think the music problem only happened with M7. I don't believe that they used any of the songs from M7 so that shouldn't be a problem

Unfortunately, songs in Macross Frontier are licensed separately as well. There is that issue.

- Tak

[Scep]

Woot slowpoke to the party...

LOL.... and when i saw the sheryl social group's message (/rage) I assumed that it was ranka end. Who would have thought XD

[abynormal]

The only reason I give this episode a nine out of ten instead of a perfect ten: the goddamn love triangle ends on an ambiguous note!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KAWAMORI YOU TROLL!!!!

SEQUEL NAO!

[glyph]

But didn't ADV put out a new release of the non-Robotech Macross series? I would like to think that a Macross Frontier US release has a good chance of happening. Considering all the issues involved, it would probably take some time though, even if it were possible.

Because the distribution rights of SDFM (and SDFM only) went to Tatsunoko and by extension Harmony Gold. The ADV release was through that sublicense.

I don't quite get the current "no US anime company has the resources to license Macross" reason. Why the special case for Macross, compared to similar flagship titles with lots of music like Gundam?

Also couldn't Bandai Visual distribute it themselves if they wanted?

[Tak]

I don't quite get the current "no US anime company has the resources to license Macross" reason. Why the special case for Macross, compared to similar flagship titles with lots of music like Gundam?

Gundam's music go through a single license. Macross' does not. Mac 7 and this recent one all went through several channels. Macross Frontier's music I believe, belongs to JVC, who supported in the production.

Its not difficult to tell, Gundam's music (such as those in SEED or 00) is just shabby compared to Mac F. In Gundam, you get a tiny, one-room studio. In Macross Frontier (and Plus), you get a fucking orchestra.

- Tak

[kamikazex]

def my favorite series this season. not a bad way to end it

[Ottocycle]

I don't quite get the current "no US anime company has the resources to license Macross" reason. Why the special case for Macross, compared to similar flagship titles with lots of music like Gundam?

Also couldn't Bandai Visual distribute it themselves if they wanted?
Not to mention that Harmony Gold has already thrown down the gauntlet with the commitment to bring litigation to any US company who dares 'copy' their Robotech label. The legal costs won't be cheap if that happens.

And what Tak said. Gundam doesn't have songstresses saving the world you know.

[Tak]

Not to mention that Harmony Gold has already thrown down the gauntlet with the commitment to bring litigation to any US company who dares 'copy' their Robotech label. The legal costs won't be cheap if that happens.

Judging by the decision made in 2004, HG and Tatsu both owns the distribution, or economic rights to the original SDFM. However, it has nothing on its character designs, mechanics and other associated media. The rights are concerned with that sole series alone. Thus Tatsu would not be able to interfere with other Macross productions and associated merchandise.

If Big West and associates decide to release the series statewide, they can easily bring the 2004 court decision to HG's attention. As of now, HG does not interfere with selling Macross toys stateside, but a separate Mac series aside from II and PLUS have yet to arrive.

- Tak

[Kushi]

OMG. I loved this episode, the only thing I hated is how he didn't use between sheryl or ranka, harem end ftw. Anyways iunno I have to admit this series was amazing and having an end like that didn't make it bad or anything what so ever, excellent series, probably the best action anime I've seen for ages. 10 out of 10

[Tak]

OMG. I loved this episode, the only thing I hated is how he didn't use between sheryl or ranka, harem end ftw. Anyways iunno I have to admit this series was amazing and having an end like that didn't make it bad or anything what so ever, excellent series, probably the best action anime I've seen for ages. 10 out of 10

Is that CC on the signature there? Damn, she is freaky with lipsticks on.

Well, I am bracing myself for an epic end that is very dissimilar to that of Frontier's end. After the train wreck starting for Episode 19, I can only wait to see what they are going to pull next...

- Tak

[ingandeul]

Definitely a feel good episode. Though I wanted some closure on the whole love triangle, I guess we can't have everything the way we want it. I do have one question for the Macross veterans. Though I can sort of see why Macross City (Earth) was shown but why was Macross 11 shown? I definitely am missing something.

[glyph]

Definitely a feel good episode. Though I wanted some closure on the whole love triangle, I guess we can't have everything the way we want it. I do have one question for the Macross veterans. Though I can sort of see why Macross City (Earth) was shown but why was Macross 11 shown? I definitely am missing something.

Macross 11 is exploring the rim of the Galaxy. Frontier was near the center. It just goes to show how far reaching and instantaneous the reach of the Vajra could have been.

[ingandeul]

ahhh I see. That's cool. Rim of the galaxy huh...wonder how many years it will take for us to reach that sky.

[stormy001_M1A2]

ahhh I see. That's cool. Rim of the galaxy huh...wonder how many years it will take for us to reach that sky.

That is assuming if we don't blow ourselves away first.

[grss1982]

Hikaru salutes Misa on the Macross Bridge in battroid mode just before sortieing on the final bombing run inside the Gorg Boddole Zer Fortress while Minmay sings.

Its was more like an assasination though. :heh:


btw. regarding Bilrer and the picture of Minmay

I guess he is Britai, the commander who switched side in DYRL. I am thinking more and more about that when I was thinking of his head implant and the peacefull face he had when he closed his ring

I'm thinking that's not Bretai. :)

But anyways....someone posted over at MW that summed it up pretty best about what Mr. Bilrer symbolizes. That poster stated that Mr. Bilrer is actually the Macross fans, who have sought answers about Minmay's fate post SW1. Its like Shohi Kawamori, as a way of acknowleding those fans is saying: "YES, guys I know you want to know what happened to her and Megaroad-1." ;)

[TwilightHack]

I'm thinking that's not Bretai. :)

But anyways....I posted over at MW summed it up pretty best about what Mr. Bilrer symbolizes. That poster stated that Mr. Bilrer is actually the Macross fans, who have sought answers about Minmay's fate post SW1. Its like Shohi Kawamori, as a way of acknowleding those fans is saying: "YES, guys I know you want to know what happened to her and Megaroad-1." ;)
Pretty much.

Bilrer = biggest Minmei otaku ever.

[Casshern]

I don't get it. Grace sais this is the ultimate in human evolution. Are we to understand that the ultimate in human evolution, according to Grace, is for Grace herself to control the galaxy while wiping out the rest of human kind?

[Tak]

I don't get it. Grace sais this is the ultimate in human evolution. Am I to understand that the ultimate in human evolution, according to Grace, is for Grace herself to control the galaxy while wiping out the rest of humanity?

No, Grace is not wiping out humanity, Grace seeks to become the center of the galaxy while turning humans more or less into Vajra clones. Her actions, if successful would have rendered mankind incapable of being individuals.

After all, by conquering the fold, one conquers the galaxy.

- Tak

[glyph]

I don't get it. Grace sais this is the ultimate in human evolution. Am I to understand that the ultimate in human evolution, according to Grace, is for Grace herself to control the galaxy while wiping out the rest of humanity?

Conquer the galaxy using Vajra deliberately evolved to the point of invincibility against human weapons, implant everyone with cybernetics (or wipe out those without) and forcibly plug them into the Vajra Instrumentality Project Vajra fold network turning humanity into a super dimensional hive mind organism like the Vajra. Human condition of loneliness solved. :heh:

Leon is probably more interested in the first point only.

[ReddyRedWolf]

No, Grace is not wiping out humanity, Grace seeks to become the center of the galaxy while turning humans more or less into Vajra clones. Her actions, if successful would have rendered mankind incapable of being individuals.

After all, by conquering the fold, one conquers the galaxy.

- Tak

WE ARE GALAXY ANONYMOUS

Lower your pin-point barriers and surender your ships.

All your biological and technological distinctness will be added to our own.

Resistance is Futile

[leoofborg]

Also, for the romance involving his penis rather than his heart, Alto made a play for a threesome with Sheryl and Ranka. "You're both my wings." Har. They don't seem totally hostile to the idea, but he'll have to work some more to sell it.

Yeah, I caught that. Ah, what a brave fickle 'Isamu Dyson' type heel Alto is.

He's messing with not one but *two* 'Little Queens'. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Two other things occurred to me. [Possibly offensive]

"]
Vajira = Vagina(little.queen) + gojira

Oh, and the bad pun: 'A vagira with teeth'.

There ya go.

Finally, Kawamori introduced openly gay characters like the okama cool bridge dude Bobby. So... noticing that Sheryl and Ranka hugged each other it could come down to... if Alto-hime doesn't hurry up, they just might *leave him behind* with that 'sky' of his.

Sorry, I am no match for Kawamori-sama, true troll master.

[Tabris]

-1 Mitchel's sniper gun but use as closed range weapon.
I doubt you'll read this, but just so that on the off chance that you do, Michael used it from a closer range in episode 9.

[Casshern]

No, Grace is not wiping out humanity, Grace seeks to become the center of the galaxy while turning humans more or less into Vajra clones. Her actions, if successful would have rendered mankind incapable of being individuals.

After all, by conquering the fold, one conquers the galaxy.

- Tak

Conquer the galaxy using Vajra deliberately evolved to the point of invincibility against human weapons, implant everyone with cybernetics (or wipe out those without) and forcibly plug them into the Vajra Instrumentality Project Vajra fold network turning humanity into a super dimensional hive mind organism like the Vajra. Human condition of loneliness solved. :heh:

Leon is probably more interested in the first point only.

I see. Thanks. So kinda like the borg from star trek.

[Wesley84]

So millions of people on Galaxy were all on board with the whole "collective" idea? Even to the point of committing genocide against everyone else in the universe? Can I say bullshit?

Sheryl even said part of her appeal was her being "all natural" and presumably that applied to the people in Galaxy itself.

Just thinking about what Grace and the cyber extremeists probably had to do, horrible, terrible things, to their own people, it would have made for a much more compelling story then the bullshit we recieved from Frontier and the SMS. Wiping out millions of people in a matter of weeks to months. Making sure no one knew about it.

Then again they were all probably brainwashed because that happened in a previous series, and if it happened in a previous series, it HAS to happen in Frontier. Heaven forbid they introduce an original and compelling idea to the franchise.

[masterkof]

9 out of 10 for me because of the ending. Dumb ending same as macross 7 both of them have sux endings.

[4zure]

That's review is up D:
http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/09/27/macross-frontier-25end-were-it-so-easy/

[Tabris]

So millions of people on Galaxy were all on board with the whole "collective" idea? Even to the point of committing genocide against everyone else in the universe? Can I say bullshit?
That's the part that we're still missing out on. They could have gone places with the Galaxy storyline, especially after we saw the entire colony and fleet intact after episode 15. I'd at least like to know where the colony ship is, since we know that most, if not all the escort fleet and battle galaxy have been disabled in some way.

That's review is up D:
http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/09/27/macross-frontier-25end-were-it-so-easy/
And how! Well all those who forgot that this was still a mecha series and not a harem…certainly did get trolled.

The whines, cries, and the most impure tears that make Noe gag of the hated shippers brings joy to every Macross Vet that ever was and ever will be. This is not some harem anime, you arschleckers and hammels this is Macross where mecha is still more important than Ranka. For starters if you are a Sheryl fan that still likes Macross, but now doubt Alto-hime’s actions for the past few eps I demand you shave your heads as a sign of your lack of faith in my Alto-hime and the awesomeness of Sheryl. If you are a Sheryl or Ranka fan who thinks this series sucks now after your pitiful minds were overloaded by the Kawamori troll GTFO and an hero yourself this instant!
Brilliant.

[Wesley84]

That's the part that we're still missing out on. They could have gone places with the Galaxy storyline, especially after we saw the entire colony and fleet intact after episode 15. I'd at least like to know where the colony ship is, since we know that most, if not all the escort fleet and battle galaxy have been disabled in some way.

They'll make up some crap later, assuming fans are interested in something other than the mecha porn and love triangles.

Brilliant.

Is it a troll if Ranka leaves you thinking she dumped Alto's ass in 21, but has renewed interest after he saves her for the millionth time?

[Tabris]

They'll make up some crap later, assuming fans are interested in something other than the mecha porn and love triangles.
Hey, don't forget the music.

But I really wish they took at least an extra episode, to wrap up things a bit better. I loved the mecha-porn and music, not fussed about the open love triangle, but there are just gaping holes in the plot that were addressed too quickly in the last two episodes.

That said, I'm still a sucker for Macross, have been as far as I can remember, so things won't change any time soon haha :heh: Kawamori could probably defecate in my face and I'd probably enjoy it...maybe not that extreme, but you get the picture. That's not to say I won't acknowledge gaping faults I wish weren't there, just that I'll overlook them if I enjoy things enough.

Edit: Okay, that makes me sound like more of a fanboy than I really am. Whatever, I don't take anime that seriously or care that much.

[Wesley84]

You forgot the music too.

But I really wish they took at least an extra episode, to wrap up things a bit better. I loved the mecha-porn and music, not fussed about the open love triangle, but there are just gaping holes in the plot that were addressed too quickly in the last two episodes.

That said, I'm still a sucker for Macross, have been as far as I can remember, so things won't change any time soon haha :heh:

Basically what they did was club the fans over the head, drag them by the hair into a cave, and molest them with mecha figurines with J-pop playing in the background, when they could have made a little effort, planned a nice evening, set the mood properly with a fine dinner and conversation, and generally create an enjoyable experience for all involved.

[dom02]

That's the part that we're still missing out on. They could have gone places with the Galaxy storyline, especially after we saw the entire colony and fleet intact after episode 15. I'd at least like to know where the colony ship is, since we know that most, if not all the escort fleet and battle galaxy have been disabled in some way.



Brilliant.

They where probably all being controlled like Brera was, that chip by his left eye that got destroyed in the episode. I'm sure they put it on the whole crew, or colony. As for the colony itself. We could probably guess that they left it on the planet.

[Kristen]

Won't be licensed unless Satelight and Big West sue Harmony Gold over distribution. Would be a distinct possibility, but the music is licensed by yet another corporation. The problem with Macross is that its always multi-licensed, more complicated than most anime out there. Then again, its music also goes on charts, which is what other anime can seldom accomplish.

On the other hand, there will be a movie.

- Tak

It was a good enough and a popular enough series that I'm sure an American company would be willing to dish out big bucks to get access to the music and art and stuff.

[Ottocycle]

It was a good enough and a popular enough series that I'm sure an American company would be willing to dish out big bucks to get access to the music and art and stuff.
Even if it means a confirmed loss? IMHO, the licensors are businessmen first and foremost.

[TooPurePureBoy]

Basically what they did was club the fans over the head, drag them by the hair into a cave, and molest them with mecha figurines with J-pop playing in the background, when they could have made a little effort, planned a nice evening, set the mood properly with a fine dinner and conversation, and generally create an enjoyable experience for all involved.

This is prolly the funniest damn thing I've ever read. So true.

I still enjoyed watching the series though.

[Tak]

Well the battle scenes from 24 ~ 25 will certainly be difficult to top for years to come. With the exception to Macross Seven, most of the battle scenes in recent Macs (PLUS, ZERO) were some of the best I've seen. This in addition to the little details they managed to include (such as in ZERO, regarding military hardware) makes all of them very enjoyable experiences.

This series is truly a 10+ hour symphony with battle ballades thrown in between.

- Tak

[golthin]

The only reason I give this episode a nine out of ten instead of a perfect ten: the goddamn love triangle ends on an ambiguous note!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KAWAMORI YOU TROLL!!!!

SEQUEL NAO!

you rated the same way as me. I discounted a point because the LT was left open ended.

Because the distribution rights of SDFM (and SDFM only) went to Tatsunoko and by extension Harmony Gold. The ADV release was through that sublicense.

I don't quite get the current "no US anime company has the resources to license Macross" reason. Why the special case for Macross, compared to similar flagship titles with lots of music like Gundam?

Also couldn't Bandai Visual distribute it themselves if they wanted?

I am confused. the ADV release is the same as the animeigo release but with subs. Who did animeigo license macross from?

[kilroy0097]

That's review is up D:
http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/09/27/macross-frontier-25end-were-it-so-easy/


The whines, cries, and the most impure tears that make Noe gag of the hated shippers brings joy to every Macross Vet that ever was and ever will be. This is not some harem anime, you arschleckers and hammels this is Macross where mecha is still more important than...

Masterpiece. If anyone said that first paragraph or a portion of it in here they would get flamed to hell and back. That's ok because he says it for us.

So yes it was a true Macross fan’s wet dream lots of capital ships, lots of Valkyries, a fuck ton of singing, missiles going everywhere, and above all the most awesome cap ship fight of the year with the Battle Frontier/Macross Quarter tag team against Battle Galaxy. If this alone is not enough to satiate your hunger for mecah, you are no fan of Macross your applications is hereby revoked and the next mass fold bombing of you and your ilk shall teleport you back to something more to your tastes like generic harem no...

What!? You mean Macross isn't a harem completely based upon a LT? You mean there is supposed to be more to it than that? Nay you say for your shipping glasses say there was nothing else.

Too funny! I loved it.


The bugs are gone, but the little girl who pissed on both sides yet remains ignorant as ever about their suffering. It is most fortunate for Ranka that there were no consequences for her previous actions, and if there were Ranka certainly did not seem to notice or care.

BTW I actually agree with that. For the record.

[golthin]

Even if it means a confirmed loss? IMHO, the licensors are businessmen first and foremost.

well said! anime companies are not licensing as much as before and they go for cheap series that can sell!

[4zure]

Too funny! I loved it.


Mee too, especially that one :


http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2526/mf25028ay0.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mf25028ay0.jpg)http://img150.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
Grace hates shippers in her Macross too…

that made my day. x]

[finalnight]

HA! We got pwned Gundam Wing style! Hopefully the movie is at least Endless Waltz level.

Now R2's finale is my last hope for salvaging the mecha anime of the season.

Screwed again, lol. On to fall season...

[Aeshma]

I must say I´m satisfied with this. Too bad about the inconclusive love triangle, but I´m too busy suffering mecha-porn withdrawals to care that much.

[Divinegundam]

Horrible. I can't believe they did this what a Great way to mess up a great show

[glyph]

Horrible. I can't believe they did this what a Great way to mess up a great show

Just exactly how did they mess up the show in your opinion? Just because they left the resolution of the triangle a cliffhanger?

[BetoJR]

Well...

After seeing the final episode with subs - for the third time in a row - I'm actually sorry I voted a 9, after seeing the RAW. It was just too damn good! As the last episode of the series, yes, I'm still a bit frustrated at the "inconclusiveness" of the love triangle, but... even if the upcoming movie doesn't cement it, it's over for me. Alto did acknowledge that, even though we are all alone, we still love someone. That, coupled with a little bit of subtle (and not so subtle) hints, is enough to draw a conclusion. And I'm fine with that, for now.

The battle scenes were just... WOW. The song medley had it's downturns, but for the most part, it worked great. So, yeah, I think it was a more than decent finale for a GREAT series, with lots of good characters all around. Am I sorry I didn't get a clear, irrefutable proof for my shipping preference? Yeah. But I loved what I did get, so... I'll wait patiently for the movie, while collecting the series all over again from AONE's releases. This is, for sure, a keeper.

[Divinegundam]

Just exactly how did they mess up the show in your opinion? Just because they left the resolution of the triangle a cliffhanger?


Yes and it was a bit too happy i was looking for a Macross Plus ending. I'm just mad they decided to try and keep both fan base happy and left it unresolved. Mecha action was great however the mixing of songs kind of killed the mood.

[Tak]

Yes and it was a bit too happy i was looking for a Macross Plus ending. I'm just mad they decided to try and keep both fan base happy and left it unresolved. Mecha action was great however the mixing of songs kind of killed the mood.

*Shrug* Sheryl won. The subtleties are all over the place.

- Tak

[glyph]

Yes and it was a bit too happy i was looking for a Macross Plus ending.
Well, the show has a different theme to Plus to begin with, so such an ending was just not going to happen. It's not a gritty show about dysfunctional screwed up people like in Plus. Neither is it it laden with a overbearing sense of doom like Zero with the downbeat "dead narrator" opening narration and the fact it is a prequel with characters that you know are never heard of again.


I'm just mad they decided to try and keep both fan base happy and left it unresolved. Mecha action was great however the mixing of songs kind of killed the mood.
Would it really make that much of a difference that Ranka couldn't keep her mouth shut for the last 30 seconds? Everything else worked out fine, didn't it? There's no way they can believably close off the triangle to all the character's satisfaction and resolve most of the plot arcs in the limited time. I'd rather they use the time to close off the series story properly than force some kind of resolution/mutual understanding in the triangle at the expense of the plot.

*Shrug* Sheryl won. The subtleties are all over the place.

- Tak

Won _this_ round. The war is not over until Alto or Ranka says it's over.

[squaresphere]

Thought the ending was pretty good. Like others, it should have been a bit longer to really showcase all the parts of the battle and tying up loose ends.

However, its a great addition to the macross universe.

I do feel that Lion could have had better impact if we didn't hear it earlier one though.

[Tabris]

Well...

After seeing the final episode with subs - for the third time in a row - I'm actually sorry I voted a 9, after seeing the RAW.
I think a lot of people prematurely voted from the RAW. Especially people who don't understand much Japanese.

Ah well :)

[Tak]

Won _this_ round. The war is not over until Alto or Ranka says it's over.

Speaking of Ranka, I find it completely absurd that people would just... forgive her for no reason.

Really, for the many things she done in the series, it would have been worthy of capital punishment had she existed in the real world.

- Tak

[TwilightHack]

Speaking of Ranka, I find it completely absurd that people would just... forgive her for no reason.

Really, for the many things she done in the series, it would have been worthy of capital punishment had she existed in the real world.

- Tak
Consider desertion in the midst of trouble one of them.

I don't mind too much though. After all, she did save Sheryl.

[kilroy0097]

It's hard to bring logic into this. Logically, using real world observations of the way people act, Ranka would be hated by a significant percentage of people on Frontier just because of her defection or at least perceived defection. Even though she helped save Frontier in the end and despite her saving of Sheryl I think, as has been said before, the people who lost loved ones and friends would probably not be too forgiving for at least the first year or so. I think in about two years, if Ranka continues along the path of making people happy with her singing, she might live down her poor performances and decisions to the people of Frontier. There will always been a small percentage that will hate her to the day they die but for the most part we know that the population has a very short memory. How else do some of these politicians still get reelected if this wasn't true.

[Tabris]

Fortunately for Ranka, Macross isn't real and death is like breathing in it [Macross].

I'm sure most people will have forgotten the bad things by the time Frontier landed on the Vajra planet and good things begin to happen.

[magnuskn]

I can live with the situation, because, as Crusader so astutely noted, Sheryl is *way* ahead, there are the subtleties which Tak and others explained, and Ranka has been ineffective in the romance department for about 90% of the series. Besides, now that she is cured, it´ll probably take Sheryl just one night to convince Alto-hime to stay by her side forever. ^^

But again I must say, the non-resolution at the end really smelled of a last-minute editorial rewrite. As a comic fan, I have seen those happen a lot of times, and they are normally accompanied by inferior art as well, just like here. Because after all the excellent stuff before the ending, I can´t well accept that they didn´t have the money to do the good animation for the last three minutes of the series. We´ll probably never really know, unless Kawamori or someone else gives up some insider info. But to me it seems as if some financial guys in charge mandated a non-ending, to milk the franchise a bit more.

[Mughi]

I don't get it. Grace sais this is the ultimate in human evolution. Are we to understand that the ultimate in human evolution, according to Grace, is for Grace herself to control the galaxy while wiping out the rest of human kind?

Lesson: Crazy people are, well... crazy! ;) :D

[Urei]

But to me it seems as if some financial guys in charge mandated a non-ending, to milk the franchise a bit more.

That's most probably true. It was done already - to stop a series and create a gap for some merchandise to sell. It makes more ruckus around the series, creates unsatisfied people with cash in their wallets and the need to have more of what they have been stripped off - certainty. That's why world is filled with sequels, second seasons ect. The problem with Macross is that the end of it's series, aside from M7, means being presented with a final resolution. Never in the history of Macross a series continuation has been made because every and single one of them is a stand alone history using ONE time line.

So what can producers do when a series becomes so popular that it's DVDs get no. sale spots and they can't produce a sequel? End it earlier and announce a movie for the rest. Create this unsatisfactory semi-ending episode and ride the popularity. It's a fool proof plan how to get the money.

They wouldn't earn anything with regular, post Grace finishing episodes. Only fans would be happy. That's all to it.

[BetoJR]

It was a masterstroke, IMHO. The people who hated it (and, going by the reported Japan reactions, that was not a very big proportion) would be missed but, ultimately, the money will keep coming in.

Oh, well... my opinion of the series has not changed. LOVE everything about it. And will keep watching as they keep making it. :D

[Anh_Minh]

Speaking of Ranka, I find it completely absurd that people would just... forgive her for no reason.

Really, for the many things she done in the series, it would have been worthy of capital punishment had she existed in the real world.

- Tak

What things? Leaving? I wasn't aware Frontier was a prison.

As for the rest, they can just push it on Grace. "Ranka was mind controlled. Thanks to Sheryl's singing, she was able to break free and turn the Vajra into our allies". Heck, they can put her leaving on Grace, too, if they want. "Ranka was actually kidnapped".

[magnuskn]

They wouldn't earn anything with regular, post Grace finishing episodes. Only fans would be happy. That's all to it.

Yeah, well. There´s still stuff to be finished. What happened to the rest of the Galaxy fleet, for example? So I think some additional episodes would have been fine. But we´ll probably get to that in the movie. The Vajra are done for, as it is.

BTW, is it bad that I didn´t shed a tear for the end of Macross Frontier, but did so for the death of Ledouche? I guess it´s just the difference of ending Macross on such a light note, instead of tearjerking the audience as they did with Lelouche dying and Nunally having a crying fit.

But I´d loved to have a more genuinely emotional reaction to not seeing some of my favourite characters leaving for the foreseeable future.

[Urei]

Yeah, well. There´s still stuff to be finished. What happened to the rest of the Galaxy fleet, for example? So I think some additional episodes would have been fine. But we´ll probably get to that in the movie. The Vajra are done for, as it is.

BTW, is it bad that I didn´t shed a tear for the end of Macross Frontier, but did so for the death of Ledouche? I guess it´s just the difference of ending Macross on such a light note, instead of tearjerking the audience as they did with Lelouche dying and Nunally having a crying fit.

But I´d loved to have a more genuinely emotional reaction to not seeing some of my favourite characters leaving for the foreseeable future.

It's a difference created by the author. Sappy music and loud screaming vs. WTF reaction. Can't shed a tear with WTF reaction now, can we? ;)

There are a lot and I mean a lot of things to be finished. Most of them consider the future of each and every character. If it was so easy to finish it like they did here then SDF would end with Misa and Hikaru watching Macross descend onto Earth after the Bodolza fight.

[magnuskn]

It's a difference created by the author. Sappy music and loud screaming vs. WTF reaction. Can't shed a tear with WTF reaction now, can we? ;)

There are a lot and I mean a lot of things to be finished. Most of them consider the future of each and every character. If it was so easy to finish it like they did here then SDF would end with Misa and Hikaru watching Macross descend onto Earth after the Bodolza fight.

Ah, wasn´t it originally supposed to? ^^

But, yeah, we got a happy, if WTF?, end for Macross, so I guess some manly tears would have been inappropiate. ^^

[kamikazex]

the music was soo goodd

[squaresphere]

Please it's only WTF for people new to macross. Old macross fan/vets will think "just as planned" ;)

The one thing I really wanted to see is how the fleet over came all of Galaxy's ghosts. From the way Luca was speaking the X-9 ghosts were still not as powerful (AI wise) as the original from M+. Still though those ghost could easily over power the NUNs fleet. I would have loved to see one of them really take on a VF-25. That would prove that the VF-25 is superior to (or at least on par) both the YF-19 and 21

[magnuskn]

Please it's only WTF for people new to macross. Old macross fan/vets will think "just as planned" ;)

Eh, I meant the non-resolution to the romance. That there would be lovey-dovey understanding between humanity and the Vajra in the end was to be expected. Although they really waited until the very last episode to get to it, which is a bit unexpected for a Macross series.

[KeithCourage]

Wow judging from ratings and a handful of replies (small sample size really, but bear with), I suppose I'm one of the few who was deeply disappointed. Some of the art here and there was nice in terms of scale and detail...but come on. Maybe I got too wrapped up in all the quaint tributes and the occasional interesting moments/personality traits throughout the series. Good guys win, nobody dies, fine. Recycling all the music with nothing new(k a little)? Slight cringe. Both love interests win, mediocre execution in the revelation of Grace...Leon seems like a har har device rather than a character. Sheryl expires only to be brought to life by coloured personas of the other main characters. At this point I'm wondering what the point of the series was other than to appease a bunch of people. I guess I was lured on by the promise of a director with more experience than before who was offering the occasional different idea.

Ending - Abrupt? Pointless? Great art but disappointing direction? I can't help but feel this was rushed but 25 episodes with a big budget leads me to -hope- they didn't mismanage the pacing. Well, I guess that would mean I'm saying they either botched it due to time or botched it...in my mind :(.

Not trying to be too critical here but honestly after being able to enjoy a mainstream series for the first time in awhile it only took one episode to make me regret a large chunk of this endeavour.

Edit : Yeah, I know this ending was very Macross and I do enjoy a good Macross here and there. The sense of scale briefly took me back to the old days, reminiscing of the pilot/singer relationship I fell in love with back in 199X...long ago. It just kept jerking me back to reality repeatedly with a lot of cliched/par devices and decisions.

[squaresphere]

Well comparatively, i can understand why some people would feel that this ending is disappointing. But anyone who's seen the end of Macross 7 knew this was a huge possibility.

I do agree that it was disappointing that there was no new music. They should have kept Northern Cross and Lion secret until the end. At least M7 saved 1 awesome song for the end.

As far as being botched, it's a matter of opinion. People that watched M7 and thought it was bad, would probably see this as a step forward. M7 was notorious for feeling drawn out then rushed in spots.

[magnuskn]

Well comparatively, i can understand why some people would feel that this ending is disappointing. But anyone who's seen the end of Macross 7 knew this was a huge possibility.

Well, with M7 the whole romance aspect wasn´t that important as with MF. Basara was disinterested ( at least in Mylene... Emilia and Sivil are another thing ), Mylene was too immature and Gamlin was too apathetic.

[KeithCourage]

Fair enough. I saw the older Macross stuff and enjoyed it thoroughly. 7 I glanced over due to unfavourable reviews/glut of par for the course anime. I saw Zero and was pretty disappointed. It could have been worse.

Message force...Mulit-plier? Wha?

Yeah I'm plenty aware that many enjoyed the ending. I suppose I get too worked up sorting through all the animes that are rehashes for money or targetted at...well, duh, shonen. Being 23 makes me too old I suppose.

[squaresphere]

Well, with M7 the whole romance aspect wasn´t that important as with MF. Basara was disinterested ( at least in Mylene... Emilia and Sivil are another thing ), Mylene was too immature and Gamlin was too apathetic.

heh, maybe it was just me, but I saw a lot of Basara's disinterested-jerk aloofness in Alto. So the ending wasn't that surprising to me.

@kenith As far as being targeted to shonen... that's probably not exactly right. I feel that the series was targeted at people that were familiar with the past macross series and just picked up everyone after it was spiced up with all the cutesy trends that are common in main stream anime.

[magnuskn]

Yeah I'm plenty aware that many enjoyed the ending. I suppose I get too worked up sorting through all the animes that are rehashes for money or targetted at...well, duh, shonen. Being 23 makes me too old I suppose.

LOL. I am 33. ^^

I guess I just retained my sense of wonder at charming characters, good singing and beautiful animation.

And, hey, Sheryl Nome is the very best character to have come along in years. That should count for something. In fact, I cannot think of a character I have liked more in the years I have watched anime. Maybe Misa. Maybe Chidori or Tessa.

Nah, Sheryl is the absolutely best one.

heh, maybe it was just me, but I saw a lot of Basara's disinterested-jerk aloofness in Alto. So the ending wasn't that surprising to me.

In the beginning, yes. But as the series progressed, you saw that Alto cared deeply about Sheryl and his other friends. I mean, can you imagine Basara getting as emotional about anyone as Alto did over Sheryl in episode 22? Or having a tender scene with Mylene, as Alto did during the dinner in 23? Basara was about the music, always, everywhere. Then, faaaar behind that came his friends.

[HonorGuideMe]

omg they better make some post series episodes or soemthing i wanna know what happens to the LT D:

[Joachim]

the more i watch it, the more i feel that ranka slap is not actually needed.. it just feel like they put it there to counter sheryl's slap, no i'm not wearing shipping googles at the moment, it just not needed and whats with the slap! moment pause with angry face "BAKA!"

yea right..., its not redeeming ranka anyway

blech

[magnuskn]

yea right..., its not redeeming ranka anyway

Nah, that honor goes to her curing Sheryl. If she´d only acknowledged that she´d better look for another nice guy and leave Alto to Sheryl, then I´d have forgiven her ( almost ) anything. Besides getting Michael killed.

[golthin]

Speaking of Ranka, I find it completely absurd that people would just... forgive her for no reason.

Really, for the many things she done in the series, it would have been worthy of capital punishment had she existed in the real world.

- Tak

Ranka was forgiven too easily. Alto's statement of killing Ranka was just Drama. Most people thought he might have tried to do it, while in reality the idea never crossed his mind during the battle. IT just make it seem more like what many people thought, that Alto was just showing up to Klan how much he loved ranka and not that he wanted to defend the fleet so much.

I guess sheryl reaction on the rooftop was right on the spot. I knew that they have been showing Sheryl having such good insight about Alto during the whole show to just make her look like she misunderstood him there. Sheryl knows alto better than he knows himself.

[Zaku_II]

the more i watch it, the more i feel that ranka slap is not actually needed.. it just feel like they put it there to counter sheryl's slap, no i'm not wearing shipping googles at the moment, it just not needed and whats with the slap! moment pause with angry face "BAKA!"


It was necesary to make a DYRL homage (Hikaru to Minmay).:heh:

[magnuskn]

Ranka was forgiven too easily. Alto's statement of killing Ranka was just Drama. Most people thought he might have tried to do it, while in reality the idea never crossed his mind during the battle. IT just make it seem more like what many people thought, that Alto was just showing up to Klan how much he loved ranka and not that he wanted to defend the fleet so much.

I guess sheryl reaction on the rooftop was right on the spot. I knew that they have been showing Sheryl having such good insight about Alto during the whole show to just make her look like she misunderstood him there. Sheryl knows alto better than he knows himself.

You are getting it wrong again. Sheryl might have had good insight into Alto, but it was clearly shown in episodes 23 and 24 that she was convinced that Alto only stayed with her out of a sense of pity. That was what clouded her perception of him and of that scene on the rooftop.

[Joachim]

Ranka was forgiven too easily. Alto's statement of killing Ranka was just Drama. Most people thought he might have tried to do it, while in reality the idea never crossed his mind during the battle. IT just make it seem more like what many people thought, that Alto was just showing up to Klan how much he loved ranka and not that he wanted to defend the fleet so much.

I guess sheryl reaction on the rooftop was right on the spot. I knew that they have been showing Sheryl having such good insight about Alto during the whole show to just make her look like she misunderstood him there. Sheryl knows alto better than he knows himself.

nope, i would say you got it wrong

alto was serious in killing ranka (his yell of rage in eps 24, which leads up to..) up to when he "saw" that ranka was tied up and crying help me, by then he know that ranka was being used and try to help her

If by any chance it was fully ranka's will to destroy humanity, alto will surely kill her

[golthin]

Well, with M7 the whole romance aspect wasn´t that important as with MF. Basara was disinterested ( at least in Mylene... Emilia and Sivil are another thing ), Mylene was too immature and Gamlin was too apathetic.

i have only watched 21 episodes of M7 and I can't believe people say the LT was not as important. 60% of the plot have been Basara disinterest, Gamlin falling head over heels for Mylene and Mylene realizing she has feeling for Basara and Gamlin. the rest is just repetition of Basara shooting speakers into the enemy VF and singing, And Gamlin being pissed at Basara.
Yet there is more romance to come with Sivil. I can understand people downplaying the romance in M7 because the M7 unresolved ending has so much in common with MF. Basara attitude toward mylene is all her fault. she acted toward him as a brat in the beginning, but the first time Basara started noticing Mylene was the night she wore her kimono, to try sweet talk him into taking the job.

[BetoJR]

nope, i would say you got it wrong

alto was serious in killing ranka (his yell of rage in eps 24, which leads up to..) up to when he "saw" that ranka was tied up and crying help me, by then he know that ranka was being used and try to help her

If by any chance it was fully ranka's will to destroy humanity, alto will surely kill her
I agree with the above statement. Alto was fully intent on killing Ranka, until he saw whatever it was he did they were doing to her. So, I'd say he also misunderstood Sheryl's reaction.

Anyways, there's still fodder for endless discussions about this series, even without the movie, wouldn't you say so? :D

[Elandyll]

Total sensory overload, it was awesome :)

10/10

I am indee a bit bugged by the unresolved LT (there are plenty of signs for ShreylxAlto people though, incuding the dialogue right before he takes off again in his VF25), but the episode was epic in scope and brought imo entire (well alsmot) satisfaction.

I do hope that the Movie will bring what the additional episodes of SDF Macross brought, aka closure, instead of waht DYRL was (Mecha porn but a story retelling).

I think that the movie could definitely introduce conflict in the LT to bait us some more (Ranka in trouble as her role in the Vajra war is under investigation. Trial even? - needing Alto's help and support), another Sheryl misunderstanding (leading her to believe that Alto stayed with her out of pity rather than love), and bam!, we only know for sure (despite all the clues) after another 2h when they finally kiss.

During that time, we see the group behind Grace making another attempt at controling Vajra's/ taking revenge on the colonists, Bilrer's role being explained, an Alto+ Brera+ Ozma fight vs some elite Cyborg pilots brought by that "other" group, intervention of the protoculture (BirdMan), and finally, right before Alto confesses clearly his love to Sheryl (after of course an epic battle Quarter vs Super destroyer + tons of fighters during which both Seryl and Ranka sing), we finally have a shot at what happened to the Megaroad 01.

Now THAT would make me happy :D

[magnuskn]

i have only watched 21 episodes of M7 and I can't believe people say the LT was not as important. 60% of the plot have been Basara disinterest, Gamlin falling head over heels for Mylene and Mylene realizing she has feeling for Basara and Gamlin. the rest is just repetition of Basara shooting speakers into the enemy VF and singing, And Gamlin being pissed at Basara.
Yet there is more romance to come with Sivil. I can understand people downplaying the romance in M7 because the M7 unresolved ending has so much in common with MF. Basara attitude toward mylene is all her fault. she acted toward him as a brat in the beginning, but the first time Basara started noticing Mylene was the night she wore her kimono, to try sweet talk him into taking the job.

Wrong. Again. There is simply no comparison between the two shows in regards to the triangle. Mostly because two of the three characters in it just suck the whole show into a vacuum of suckyness. The only tolerable one was Gamlin, and he was so apathetic ( or mild-mannered ) most of the time, that he deservedly can be called the most boring main of all Macross shows.

People complained about Alto being rude ( in the beginning of the show ) and Ranka being immature ( until the very end of the show ^^ ).

Man, they don´t have anything on Basara and Mylene in those respective departments. Compared to those two, Alto was super-curteous and Ranka extremely mature.

[squaresphere]

Nah, Sheryl is the absolutely best one.


QFT! very true. best female anime lead in a long long time


In the beginning, yes. But as the series progressed, you saw that Alto cared deeply about Sheryl and his other friends. I mean, can you imagine Basara getting as emotional about anyone as Alto did over Sheryl in episode 22? Or having a tender scene with Mylene, as Alto did during the dinner in 23? Basara was about the music, always, everywhere. Then, faaaar behind that came his friends.

Well Basara did get emotional eventually, the two instances that come into my mind are when "they" wouldn't listen to his song to the point where he got so frustrated that the shot missiles. Gamlin had to get his head straight. He got pretty emotional when he was trying to wake up Sivil.

I do think that eventually Basara would have found someone, Emilia maybe if she wasn't realted to Mylene.

You're right about the friends though. As much as Alto pretended to be a loner, Basara barely cared about his band mates.

[BetoJR]

QFT! very true. best female anime lead in a long long time.
Couldn't agree more. And she actually looked content there in the end - her acceptance of Ranka's ill-fated challenge being very charming, as well - so, one more reason I can't be all that frustrated about this episode.

Gosh, I wish the movie was coming out already. :D

[morphincheese]

felt 25 ended off in the best way. only thing i'd like to have seen is the explanation behind bilrer and the minmay thing, although some of the theories are pretty good, using the vajra network to find megaroad 1.

the relationship stuff as with the original series were bonuses, not the focal point for me, happy enough that the 3 have the freedom to make their choices. if you want to see who finally wins, then petition for a slice of life spinoff.

what stunk for me about the original macross were the post war eps, good idea, but the execution was so dragged out, i couldn't have cared less, which is why dyrl was great because it tightened up the whole story and focused on the best parts, became epic. no comment on m7, couldn't get into it.

so if the mf were to do the same thing, just tighten up the story, cut out the filler and accentuate the best parts (go go even more mecha porn), i'd be happy.

if they were going to continue the plot, i hope they got something up their sleeves because going to a c-ranked villain now that grace and cohorts are done, would suck.

[Father Hentai]

btw. did someone had the following theory in mind and came to the end that alto and sheryl will be the winners of the TL?

There is an expression in german which is called "was sich liebt, das neckt sich" translated: Lovers always tease each other.

Who would've bet on this? :)

[Tak]

btw. did someone had the following theory in mind and came to the end that alto and sheryl will be the winners of the TL?

Based on the subtle references throughout 25, Sheryl won.

Ranka was the one who looked at Sheryl with questionable confidence going "I will not lose to you! >3<"

- Tak

[Father Hentai]

I was already confident in episode 24 with the dialogue between Alto and Sheryl and because of the "melodramatic" background music.

Ranka was the one who looked at Sheryl with questionable confidence going "I will not lose to you! >3<"

at the end of DYRL after the battle against the zentraedis, you see minmay putting her arm in the air with the papers in her hand. also comparable with that what ranka said at the end. oboete ima suka and aimo are both love songs (although aimo is more sounding like lets make love). I would interpret it more like "Sheryl, you havewon, but don't loose him or else I'll have my chance on him". It is a lovely challenge but Ranka knows whom altos' heart belongs to - second to his love for the sky -. also have to keep in mind that ranka has to ravel up her past since she now knows that a family related is still alive.

[Tak]

Why wait until 24 when 22 already given us a wonderfully structured love scene? :D

- Tak

[golthin]

Based on the subtle references throughout 25, Sheryl won.

Ranka was the one who looked at Sheryl with questionable confidence going "I will not lose to you! >3<"

- Tak

you know, when it comes to who won or lost, you don't have much credibility because you have Sheryl's shipper goggles on. It is like the Ranka shippers using Alto right hand to reach for the girls, and because Ranka is on the right side , that he chose her. Now you use the subtle things that are mostly homage to the previous macross series to give sheryl a victory in case the movie is just a retelling and this never get solved.

Why can't it be accepted that the director let the LT unresolved even though Sheryl should have won. I know it was crappy to reset everything, heck i wish Alto had actually kissed sheryl( it is still not 100% sure that he kissed her that time off camara). There must be a reason that sheryl thought that Alto was just pretending to be lovers with her. She knew that if they were really lovers he would have kissed her that night after dinner.

If kawamori want to resolve the LT in the movie it has to be a Sheryl win, or he has to come with a very good reason for an Alto x Ranka ending. Only way i see it happening is the sheryl keeps singing and starts going back on tours and Alto doesn't want to leave his "sky".

[Wesley84]

I think the final episode pretty much conveys the fact that Alto's heart belongs to the stage. He might take a token wife to make babies, but he'll never truly love her, whomever she is. He is an Acktore! Nothing more, impossible to be any less!

[Father Hentai]

you know, when it comes to who won or lost, you don't have much credibility because you have Sheryl's shipper goggles on. It is like the Ranka shippers using Alto right hand to reach for the girls, and because Ranka is on the right side , that he chose her. Now you use the subtle things that are mostly homage to the previous macross series to give sheryl a victory in case the movie is just a retelling and this never get solved.

Why can't it be accepted that the director let the LT unresolved even though Sheryl should have won. I know it was crappy to reset everything, heck i wish Alto had actually kissed sheryl( it is still not 100% sure that he kissed her that time off camara). There must be a reason that sheryl thought that Alto was just pretending to be lovers with her. She knew that if they were really lovers he would have kissed her that night after dinner.

If kawamori want to resolve the LT in the movie it has to be a Sheryl win, or he has to come with a very good reason for an Alto x Ranka ending. Only way i see it happening is the sheryl keeps singing and starts going back on tours and Alto doesn't want to leave his "sky".


Well it is very clear that they kissed each other. As a boy/girl if you clear a tear from a girls eye you would instinctly try to kiss her (on a romantic moon light). if he did not do it, sheryl has done it. you can also see a small head move from both although the camera was scrolling up.

if MF is still the homage to 25 years of macross this is a rollback of the original macross series with other characters only but the same love theme and triangle it had.

[Tak]

Yeah, ever noticed 22 was the most romantic scene in Frontier? You cannot find a similar scene for Ranka.

- Tak

[kujoe]

Why can't it be accepted that the director let the LT unresolved even though Sheryl should have won. I know it was crappy to reset everything...
You just answered your question actually.

...heck i wish Alto had actually kissed sheryl( it is still not 100% sure that he kissed her that time off camara). There must be a reason that sheryl thought that Alto was just pretending to be lovers with her. She knew that if they were really lovers he would have kissed her that night after dinner.
But putting it this way makes you sound as if you had goggles on yourself.

Basically, all this too over-rationalizing is like having a pair of goggles on. But if you watched the old series, you'd have to be blind to miss an homage scene or two. Moreover, I think, by looking at what has happened so far we can at least see where the development was headed towards to had the final episode chose to resolve the triangle. Of course, nothing is truly final yet on this front, but it was indeed pretty close.

The purpose of the movie is pretty simple really. More money.

[Father Hentai]

Yeah, ever noticed 22 was the most romantic scene in Frontier? You cannot find a similar scene for Ranka.

- Tak

i watched slow motion episode 22 just a couple of minutes ago. Minute 14:04 on [gg] fansub. both heads on the same height and moving together! :)

The purpose of the movie is pretty simple really. More money.

or the budget went low for the project. have to think to create a series also costs money and maybe the marketing department had low budget so that they had to restructure the money flow.

[golthin]

Yeah, ever noticed 22 was the most romantic scene in Frontier? You cannot find a similar scene for Ranka.

- Tak

no doubt about it. that is why I crowned sheryl the winner before we got trolled by kawamori .The closer that Ranka got to that was their moment making paper airplanes and Alto was like "meh" to her there. the confession and goodbye was also heartbreaking. Sheryl had two big romantic moments(not counting the dinner scene) vs Ranka having one.

sheryl's "lets stop pretending to be lovers" was kind of the same as Ranka goodbye(I think Sheryl thought she was not going to Survive the battle), but Sheryl got to lock lips with Alto and Ranka didn't.

Maybe in the movie we actually get to see the kiss and if anything else happened after that!

[Father Hentai]

the best way to shut a boys mouth is to kiss him. :P

ok. joke beside. as you said sheryl is aware that she won't survive the battle maybe and she said it so that alto does not have to worry about her. stupid girl at the moment, because she has alto already that far that he is taking care of her.

[-Tsuzuki-]

Wrah. Is it too much to expect something on par with the original Macross ending, romance wise? And to add insult to injury, they had to bring Minmay back too. Why?

Oh well. The rest of the episode was nice. Kawamori can make up for the non-ending by telling the Megaroad story.

[Jarppa]

Just finished this episode and I have to say it was nice ending. They both loved him and thats just life (and anime :D ) If the movie is gonna resolve the TL ill root for Ranka. She was my favourite of those two.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Both heroines are flawed but great characters. Whoever Alto chooses, he is one lucky guy.

[glyph]

Both heroines are flawed but great characters. Whoever Alto chooses, he is one lucky guy.

On the other hand if he chooses to deliberately continue to lead them both on indefinitely after all the trouble they went through to present him with the privilege to make a choice unencumbered by circumstances and obligation, he's just a dick.

[TwilightHack]

or the budget went low for the project. have to think to create a series also costs money and maybe the marketing department had low budget so that they had to restructure the money flow.
I highly doubt it was because of money due to Macross being the cash cow that it is. I believe it was due to the 25 ep limit (because of its the 25th anniversary) that they had to rush things. The movie will most likely be a sequel since it was announced just as the series ended.

no doubt about it. that is why I crowned sheryl the winner before we got trolled by kawamori .
Either you ship Sheryl or you don't ship golthin. Which one is it? You claim you don't ship... but here you crowned Sheryl winner before the end and even now? An objective PoV would say that the LT hasn't been resolved due to lack of clarity from Alto.

Please make up your mind.

Just finished this episode and I have to say it was nice ending. They both loved him and thats just life (and anime :D ) If the movie is gonna resolve the TL ill root for Ranka. She was my favourite of those two.
I'll be quite blunt about my opinion on the matter. I believe with 25's ending, Kawamori is trolling Ranka shippers so that they'll stay with the Frontier till at least the movie. The reason being is because of subtleties and homages paid to Hikaru x Misa... through Alto and Sheryl are too much to ignore.

Both heroines are flawed but great characters. Whoever Alto chooses, he is one lucky guy.
One of them is more flawed than the other really, he may be luckier with one over the other.

[Father Hentai]

And to add insult to injury, they had to bring Minmay back too. Why?



maybe because it is a homage to the anime character that hovered macross to a love story and not only cranky mecha clashing epic fighting anime.

not to forget that the path of hikaru, misa and minmay is still untold.

[Wesley84]

And who cares about that? People die. Move on.

[Father Hentai]

you should watch more macross series/movies or even read the mangas to understand what lynn minmay iconize.

maybe you'll understand that she still is - and will be - a key person in the macross universe.

[abynormal]

Fck your pop icons.

Man, if you hated the music angle in Frontier, you'd better stay way the hell away from Macross 7. The music factor in Frontier is a hammy, but in 7 it's just plain inexplicable.

(assuming you haven't seen it) Example: Basara's battle tactic is to fly his custom Valkyrie into a swarm of enemies, transform and use the gunpod to launch amplifiers into every ship in range and start rocking out. Yes, he does take his guitar into the plane with him.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Actually I can't figure out how he can sing in space. I thought sound did not travel thru space.

[Jazzrat]

hijacking into the enemies' radio freq? shooting speakers pod onto their mech?

[TwilightHack]

When will you guys learn, DFTT! (Don't Feed The Troll.)

And yes, speaker pods ftw.

[kujoe]

Well, Basara got a Meltrandi fleet to go on fangirling over him. What's not to like?

[magnuskn]

you know, when it comes to who won or lost, you don't have much credibility because you have Sheryl's shipper goggles on. It is like the Ranka shippers using Alto right hand to reach for the girls, and because Ranka is on the right side , that he chose her. Now you use the subtle things that are mostly homage to the previous macross series to give sheryl a victory in case the movie is just a retelling and this never get solved.

Why can't it be accepted that the director let the LT unresolved even though Sheryl should have won. I know it was crappy to reset everything, heck i wish Alto had actually kissed sheryl( it is still not 100% sure that he kissed her that time off camara). There must be a reason that sheryl thought that Alto was just pretending to be lovers with her. She knew that if they were really lovers he would have kissed her that night after dinner.

If kawamori want to resolve the LT in the movie it has to be a Sheryl win, or he has to come with a very good reason for an Alto x Ranka ending. Only way i see it happening is the sheryl keeps singing and starts going back on tours and Alto doesn't want to leave his "sky".

<facepalm> I give up. Honestly, we already made those arguments during the discussions in the last weeks. Apparently you slept through those, or you are just being obstinate. And Kawamori didn´t "reset" anything. He just didn´t conclude.

[TwilightHack]

^ I'll give you a hand magnus.

you know, when it comes to who won or lost, you don't have much credibility because you have Sheryl's shipper goggles on.
And let me start off with this... your credibility is lost because you can't make up your mind as to whether you're shipping a girl or not. You bounce back and forth more than a pin ball in a pin ball machine, that's saying something.

It is like the Ranka shippers using Alto right hand to reach for the girls, and because Ranka is on the right side , that he chose her. Now you use the subtle things that are mostly homage to the previous macross series to give sheryl a victory in case the movie is just a retelling and this never get solved.
As opposed to Ranka shippers who use their personal thoughts and opinion as basis, Sheryl ships/Neutral parties use subtleties based on facts provided... and they also use actual homages to past Macrosses. Clearly if you don't get the subtleties and the homages paid, you haven't watched the past and current Macrosses closely enough.

Note 1: This is address to all those who still believe Alto saluted both girls. I'd suggest you re-watch the scene and take special note of the Sheryl's screen positioning, Battle Frontier's positioning, Alto positioning, and the direction Ranka is facing in contrast to the screen when Alto salutes. Think about it.

Note 2: As a director, you do not blow your budget to painstakingly detail a scene (ep24, Sheryl x Alto... animation, bgm, homage) if it did not signify something. That scene has the best character design animations in the entire show coupled with beautiful background music we've only heard twice (iirc). Take note of the bgm in ep 24 and compare it to the Sheryl x Alto scene in ep 22. Is it significant? Yes, very much so even to non shippers.

Why can't it be accepted that the director let the LT unresolved even though Sheryl should have won.
It is my own opinion that SK left the LT unresolved to keep the Ranka ships afloat till the movie comes out. Why blow off a portion of your fanbase when you can milk them all for a time? Why give the majority fanbase an LT conclusion/ending that wouldn't live up to former Macross standards?

Ep 25 was much too rushed to be able to offer a proper, well done conclusion to the LT.

I know it was crappy to reset everything, heck i wish Alto had actually kissed sheryl( it is still not 100% sure that he kissed her that time off camara). There must be a reason that sheryl thought that Alto was just pretending to be lovers with her. She knew that if they were really lovers he would have kissed her that night after dinner.
There was no reset.

Also, you must have missed the end of ep 23, forgotten Sheryl's situation at the time, and still not understand who Sheryl is. Combine the latter two with the conversation she had with Alto before dinner and the part of the conversation she heard between Klan and Alto... And there's no mistaking how or why she mistook the context in which Alto and Klan were talking.

If kawamori want to resolve the LT in the movie it has to be a Sheryl win, or he has to come with a very good reason for an Alto x Ranka ending. Only way i see it happening is the sheryl keeps singing and starts going back on tours and Alto doesn't want to leave his "sky".
Here you go again contradicting yourself... saying you don't ship and yet press for a Sheryl win. That's extremely hypocritical on your part.

And here you have the galls to try and discredit someone else who ships the same person as you.

[magnuskn]

^ I'll give you a hand magnus.


Thank you very much, TH. :)

[Joachim]

if you are saying i as sheryl fans was using my shipping google in seeing all those subtle reference.. then why 2 of my friends who was not even shipping anyone did see those subtle reference?

the ranka fans subtle reference was more "biased" then sheryl's one

"The right hand of victory"

yea right right hand, because he pick right hand then it is by any means picking ranka over sheryl (which was on the left side of his hand) *sacrasm

while sheryl's one :

"Salute" (get beaten soo hard that is not even funny) try to think about it, why the image of sheryl also saluting was behind the oh so big ranka, subtle? yes it is kinda like a trap for ranka fans to see that ranka was also saluting alto back.. but no she didn't

"Ranka's down looking and "i won't lose" word": also got beaten to death, but not so much, still not much counter from ranka's about this.

while i maybe as you said wearing my shipping googles, but heck it was clearer than ranka's one

[golthin]

Either you ship Sheryl or you don't ship golthin. Which one is it? You claim you don't ship... but here you crowned Sheryl winner before the end and even now? An objective PoV would say that the LT hasn't been resolved due to lack of clarity from Alto.

Please make up your mind.


There are many differences between me and a sheryl's shippers. I don't see the subtle hints in episode 25 that say that sheryl won. After episode 21, I thought sheryl had the victory in the bag. Before episode 21, I thought that Ranka was ahead. Now after episode 25, I believe it is just a reset and that both girls have a chance, but Sheryl still have a lead because of all the time she spent with Alto. I was not "shipping" for sheryl to win, I have always have said that the "I am dying" card gave Sheryl too much of an advantage (something a Sheryl shipper will never acknowledge) over Ranka, but I understood that it couldn't be overlooked thus why I crowned sheryl the winner.

I was not familiar with M7 until I read somewhere about it and after watching some episode and reading how ended I came to realize why this was left unresolved.


You don't have to be a sheryl shipper to see that Sheryl should have ended with Alto after episode 21 and everything that happened in episode 22 thru 24. Only Ranka's Fans were in denial about it, you could say that Ranka's fans had more to be rejoiced about how the series ended than sheryl's fans. I still see many Sheryl's fans claiming victory when it is so obvious that nobody won.

So to summarize what differentiate me and shipper from either of the two girls.

1. I don't hate Ranka or sheryl.
2. I believe Ranka was ahead of sheryl before episode 21.
3. I believe Sheryl's lead after episode 21 was so large that only a Hax could give us a RankaxAlto ending.
4. I don't see the "subtle" hints that give Sheryl a sure win in episode 25 (they are just homage to the previous series).
5. Alto's purpose was revived after he saved Ranka and also revived Ranka's hopes.
6. Alto has feelings for both girls, both romantic and of different types.
7. Sheryl's disease gave her such unfair advantage over Ranka that the director had to do a reset to be fair to Ranka after he took her out of the competition for so long to further his plot. The pity card + any feelings Alto had for Sheryl was so much.
8. I thought that Sheryl's fan were using immaturity too much to justify their hatred for ranka. Ranka was justified to be a few years behind her peers due to the traumatic events that happened to her, the director even came with dissociative Amnesia as reason for this and Sheryl's fan always shrug her condition.

9. and the Final but most important is that I believe NOBODY won, there are shippers from both sides that are still claiming victory.

Edit:I don't know if you misunderstood my previous post but if you go back, I said that I had crowned Sheryl the winner after episode 21. but episode 25 changed that.

[Joachim]

On the other hand if he chooses to deliberately continue to lead them both on indefinitely after all the trouble they went through to present him with the privilege to make a choice unencumbered by circumstances and obligation, he's just a dick.

lol his line while talking to both girls "you're (while talking to sheryl and then suddenly) ... both of you (also looking to ranka) are my wings"

maybe the dude was thinking.. wait if i can pick both why not :D

[Joachim]

There are many differences between me and a sheryl's shippers. I don't see the subtle hints in episode 25 that say that sheryl won. After episode 21, I thought sheryl had the victory in the bag. Before episode 21, I thought that Ranka was ahead. Now after episode 25, I believe it is just a reset and that both girls have a chance, but Sheryl still have a lead because of all the time she spent with Alto. I was not "shipping" for sheryl to win, I have always have said that the "I am dying" card gave Sheryl too much of an advantage (something a Sheryl shipper will never acknowledge) over Ranka, but I understood that it couldn't be overlooked thus why I crowned sheryl the winner.

I was not familiar with M7 until I read somewhere about it and after watching some episode and reading how ended I came to realize why this was left unresolved.


You don't have to be a sheryl shipper to see that Sheryl should have ended with Alto after episode 21 and everything that happened in episode 22 thru 24. Only Ranka's Fans were in denial about it, you could say that Ranka's fans had more to be rejoiced about how the series ended than sheryl's fans. I still see many Sheryl's fans claiming victory when it is so obvious that nobody won.

So to summarize what differentiate me and shipper from either of the two girls.

1. I don't hate Ranka or sheryl.
2. I believe Ranka was ahead of sheryl before episode 21.
3. I believe Sheryl's lead after episode 21 was so large that only a Hax could give us a RankaxAlto ending.
4. I don't see the "subtle" hints that give Sheryl a sure win in episode 25 (they are just homage to the previous series).
5. Alto's purpose was revived after he saved Ranka and also revived Ranka's hopes.
6. Alto has feelings for both girls, both romantic and of different types.
7. Sheryl's disease gave her such unfair advantage over Ranka that the director had to do a reset to be fair to Ranka after he took her out of the competition for so long to further his plot. The pity card + any feelings Alto had for Sheryl was so much.
8. I thought that Sheryl's fan were using immaturity too much to justify their hatred for ranka. Ranka was justified to be a few years behind her peers due to the traumatic events that happened to her, the director even came with dissociative Amnesia as reason for this and Sheryl's fan always shrug her condition.

9. and the Final but most important is that I believe NOBODY won, there are shippers from both sides that are still claiming victory.


i got your point but heck some of the most rabid sheryl fans was even denying that the LT was over on episode 23 while you was ever so sure that it was already ended...

its just a matter of opinion anyway, a homage of old series yes, but why its not a subtle reference? you are forcing your opinion to those that think otherwise

i'm curious whats in your mind during ranka's action and attitude before saying "i won't lose to you in both sing and love"

[golthin]

i got your point but heck some of the most rabid sheryl fans was even denying that the LT was over on episode 23 while you was ever so sure that it was already ended...

its just a matter of opinion anyway, a homage of old series yes, but why its not a subtle reference? you are forcing your opinion to those that think otherwise

i'm curious whats in your mind during ranka's action and attitude before saying "i won't lose to you in both sing and love"

Well, sheryl rabid fans are claiming victory now. I guess Sheryl's fan knew Kawamori better than me and were a little worried about being trolled. I guess they were right :heh:

About Ranka's challenge to sheryl, it is just challange, something she never did openly and now she is ready to fight regardless of her opponent being sheryl. sheryl's fan take her words as sign that Ranka knows she is losing, but at least she wants to fight to the bitter end. It is not over until Alto-hime sings :heh:

[magnuskn]

8. I thought that Sheryl's fan were using immaturity too much to justify their hatred for ranka. Ranka was justified to be a few years behind her peers due to the traumatic events that happened to her, the director even came with dissociative Amnesia as reason for this and Sheryl's fan always shrug her condition.

9. and the Final but most important is that I believe NOBODY won, there are shippers from both sides that are still claiming victory.

Until we get a definite ending, Sheryl has already won. Ranka declaring that she is a sore loser doesn´t change anything.

Skipping your other points. But Sheryl has just as much of a traumatic past, and, hey, somehow she did mature into an amazing woman, instead of regressing into a childlike state of "mememememe!", like Ranka did. So, even objectively, Sheryl is a better person than Ranka. Hell, Sheryl doesn´t even have convenient amnesia to forget her sucky past, like Ranka, who most of the time was just in a loving home.

How some people always conveniently forget this here much discussed fact... it´s as if they had some agenda and were trying to push it on everybody. Tshk. :rolleyes:

[Crimson Cloud]

After watching with subs for a few times I guess the episode is not bad. What really blinded me was the triangle which wasn't fully resolved. But I still think that the overal experiance will be rated when I see the final episode/movie.

At least I have something to look forward to =)

[TwilightHack]

There are many differences between me and a sheryl's shippers. I don't see the subtle hints in episode 25 that say that sheryl won.
I am a Sheryl ship but I rarely, if ever, use my pink tinted goggles of delusion. Haven't had to.

Subtle hints/homages are for those who understand the Macross franchise, Macross Frontier is a 25th anniversary special after all. If you don't see them, its probably because you don't understand them.

After episode 21, I thought sheryl had the victory in the bag. Before episode 21, I thought that Ranka was ahead. Now after episode 25, I believe it is just a reset and that both girls have a chance, but Sheryl still have a lead because of all the time she spent with Alto.
Two words: Pinball Machine.

How can we honestly give you credibility when you switch opinions every other ep when something seems to be going one way as opposed to the other?

I was not "shipping" for sheryl to win,
But you did say she should win "or else", same difference.

I have always have said that the "I am dying" card gave Sheryl too much of an advantage (something a Sheryl shipper will never acknowledge) over Ranka, but I understood that it couldn't be overlooked thus why I crowned sheryl the winner.
Greatest advantage? Hardly, the "I am dying" card was Sheryl's biggest weakness in the LT. Pity cards never bode well for those who play them because it forms a sort of fake attachment out of sorry... which take note, Sheryl did not want from anyone.

I was not familiar with M7 until I read somewhere about it and after watching some episode and reading how ended I came to realize why this was left unresolved.
M7 was not a series about romance, it was mainly about music. The supposed triangle, Basara -> Mylene <- Gamlin was never "really" there. If there was any romance at all, it was geared towards the reunification of Max and Milia, the subtle Basara x Emilia, or the ever famous one, Basara and his guitar.

You don't have to be a sheryl shipper to see that Sheryl should have ended with Alto after episode 21 and everything that happened in episode 22 thru 24. Only Ranka's Fans were in denial about it, you could say that Ranka's fans had more to be rejoiced about how the series ended than sheryl's fans.
So you proclaimed Sheryl should win after Ep 21 before the series was even over... that my friend is shipping. By no means rabid, but a ship yes.

I still see many Sheryl's fans claiming victory when it is so obvious that nobody won.
Victory cannot outright be proclaimed, but the subtleties prove and point otherwise that Sheryl is on top.

So to summarize what differentiate me and shipper from either of the two girls.

1. I don't hate Ranka or sheryl.
2. I believe Ranka was ahead of sheryl before episode 21.
3. I believe Sheryl's lead after episode 21 was so large that only a Hax could give us a RankaxAlto ending.
4. I don't see the "subtle" hints that give Sheryl a sure win in episode 25 (they are just homage to the previous series).
5. Alto's purpose was revived after he saved Ranka and also revived Ranka's hopes.
6. Alto has feelings for both girls, both romantic and of different types.
7. Sheryl's disease gave her such unfair advantage over Ranka that the director had to do a reset to be fair to Ranka after he took her out of the competition for so long to further his plot. The pity card + any feelings Alto had for Sheryl was so much.
8. I thought that Sheryl's fan were using immaturity too much to justify their hatred for ranka. Ranka was justified to be a few years behind her peers due to the traumatic events that happened to her, the director even came with dissociative Amnesia as reason for this and Sheryl's fan always shrug her condition.

9. and the Final but most important is that I believe NOBODY won, there are shippers from both sides that are still claiming victory.

Edit:I don't know if you misunderstood my previous post but if you go back, I said that I had crowned Sheryl the winner after episode 21. but episode 25 changed that.
Things that differentiate you from a shipper? Let me address these.

1) I don't hate either, either.
2) So you shipped Ranka then pre 21, good for you.
3) And then you changed your stance to Sheryl after ep 21, great.
4) I addressed the subtle hints issue above.
5) There you are speculating for Ranka.
6) That is also speculation considering Alto's dialogue in ep 23.
7) I beg to differ, Sheryl's disease was her greatest weakness because so many things could have gone wrong. I already addressed the issue of pity above.
8) And while Ranka was all nice nice in a good home with her onii-chan, Sheryl was digging through the dumpsters by herself, ignoredon Galaxy. Tell me now, how did Sheryl turn out? Not bashing anyone, but take that into perspective.
9) There we have you changing your opinion again.

So in the end, you clearly shipped one girl or the other at different points in time up until the very end of ep 25. At which point you believe that the whole LT magically reset and that Sheryl and Ranka are on an even level.

That statement is definitely not shipper goggles... but that's honestly delusional thinking in the simple fact that you discredit all development in episodes prior.

[Westlo]

Oh ffs Sheryl is in the lead, you don't see the NBA champions the Celtics or Premier League champions Manchester United challenging their runners up, it's them who get challenged! Ranka issuing the challenge in the first place speaks fucking volumes...

While Sheryl is gazing at Alto flying in the sky with a look of contentment and understanding Ranka looks at her and is downcast before she issues the cliche 3rd wheel challenge of "I won't lose". Yeah sure Ranka you won't, and neither will Yoshia from Shana and Siesta from Znt and Tsukiumi from Sekirei, Tessa from FMP and oh god the fucking list goes on.

Also people who think Alto saluted both are morons, it was obvious enough on streams and just watching #ggs rip it was painfully obvious.

[golthin]

Until we get a definite ending, Sheryl has already won. Ranka declaring that she is a sore loser doesn´t change anything.


@joachim
see joachim! Magnuskn is a prime example of a real rabid sheryl fan. Most of them, like you said weren't happy till the last episode came out . now that Alto didn't choose anyone they are claiming victory. :heh:

[magnuskn]

@joachim
see joachim! Magnuskn is a prime example of a real rabid sheryl fan. Most of them, like you said weren't happy till the last episode came out . now that Alto didn't choose anyone they are claiming victory. :heh:

We already have won, so what exactly am I fighting against? I mean, c'mon, give me the *arguments* for Ranka. If one minute before the end of a soccer game one team leads by 10 to 1, and the camera cuts out, the losing team doesn´t get to claim that *they* won, because nobody saw the ending. :rolleyes:

Give me some real evidence which points towards him tilting again towards Ranka, or stop stating the "They didn´t showed Alto choosing one girl, so it´s a draw." argument.

[kokweng1]

Nice epi and can say as best epi [ full action epi xD]
and sad it has end

[golthin]

So in the end, you clearly shipped one girl or the other at different points in time up until the very end of ep 25. At which point you believe that the whole LT magically reset and that Sheryl and Ranka are on an even level.

That statement is definitely not shipper goggles... but that's honestly delusional thinking in the simple fact that you discredit all development in episodes prior.

I think you have a misconception of what a shipper is! a true shipper stay with his ship even when it sinks. I have been a shipper for many pairings and have lost my good share. Just because i was not shipping for a pairing doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about who i think had the better chance of winning. I shipped during gurren-laggan,Code geass, shuffle, clannad, true tears, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien , Kashimashi, Myself; Yourself, kimikiss just to list a few.
the last 4 in the list were the last time that my pairing won. Kashimashi is a weird case, but i still won at the very end.

I am going to ask you a question.... Do you think sheryl won after episode 25? I think nobody won at the end. For the most, sheryl's fan believe that until otherwise stated, that sheryl won.
I am not sure what Ranka's fan believe because they have not been as vocal, last thing i heard was that some were saying that Alto chose ranka because he was reaching with his right hand and Ranka was on the right :heh:

We already have won, so what exactly am I fighting against? I mean, c'mon, give me the *arguments* for Ranka. If one minute before the end of a soccer game one team leads by 10 to 1, and the camera cuts out, the losing team doesn´t get to claim that *they* won, because nobody saw the ending. :rolleyes:

Give me some real evidence which points towards him tilting again towards Ranka, or stop stating the "They didn´t showed Alto choosing one girl, so it´s a draw." argument.

Love is not like a Soccer game! you can be 100 to 1 point in the game of love and in instant the other opponent can score 110 points in the last second. we should have learned that from shows like Canvas2.

[TwilightHack]

Well, sheryl rabid fans are claiming victory now. I guess Sheryl's fan knew Kawamori better than me and were a little worried about being trolled. I guess they were right :heh:
We picked up on the homages and subtleties, you didn't. It's not our problem you can't or don't want to pick up on them... they're right in front of you, on the screen.

Edit: To be specific, homages (DYRL and TV alike), cultural references, as well as BGM and others.

And admit it, we all got trolled... I as a Sheryl fan was steeling myself for a Ranka ending but instead got a lame no conclusion. That affected me more than if Ranka would have won.

Also, you're a prime example of SK's troll mastery. You jumped ship when things didn't work with Ranka and boarded the the Sheryl ship. Then in the end you jumped both ships due to SK's trolling and can't comprehend the fact that the triangle was over in ep 24 and it was only more subtly confirmed in ep 25 by salute homage.

About Ranka's challenge to sheryl, it is just challange, something she never did openly and now she is ready to fight regardless of her opponent being sheryl. sheryl's fan take her words as sign that Ranka knows she is losing, but at least she wants to fight to the bitter end. It is not over until Alto-hime sings :heh:
Yeah she is losing, why deny it? During Ranka's absence Sheryl and Alto have developed a deep connection, shared kisses (even as half-assed some were), and have been living together for some time.

How she's going to pull a victory out of that is beyond me. That would be the biggest "wtf" upset in LT history.

@joachim
see joachim! Magnuskn is a prime example of a real rabid sheryl fan. Most of them, like you said weren't happy till the last episode came out . now that Alto didn't choose anyone they are claiming victory. :heh:
And you're a prime example of the most indecisive shipper out there.

Sheryl ships didn't believe it was over in ep 22 or ep 23 because of the context in which ep 22's Sheryl x Alto scene played. By all means, 23 actually instilled a lot of doubt into some of us. But then Ep 24 came along and remedied the ep 22/23 doubt. Ep 25 then served to reinforce ep 24 and Sheryl's x Alto's bond.

To me, Sheryl ships can't claim outright victory, but we can sure put up a damn good front as to why because of what has been given/hinted to us in actual scenes... and also by Kawamori's own preferences from history.

[SaintessHeart]

Just leave the love triangle there. What is a Macross protagonist relationship without a threesome involved?

[magnuskn]

Love is not like a Soccer game! you can be 100 to 1 point in the game of love and in instant the other opponent can score 110 points in the last second. we should have learned that from shows like Canvas2.

Wasn´t Canvas 2 that show which people always cite when they want to reference a really sucky romance?

Still waiting for any evidence which points towards Ranka, and not towards Sheryl...

[golthin]

Wasn´t Canvas 2 that show which people always cite when they want to reference a really sucky romance?

Still waiting for any evidence which points towards Ranka, and not towards Sheryl...

Canvas2 is a show that did a 180 degree turn in the last 10 minutes of the show. you could say that there was a girl that was ahead 10-0 and in the last second the other girl scored 11 goals for the win, according to your soccer analogy.

[TwilightHack]

I think you have a misconception of what a shipper is! a true shipper stay with his ship even when it sinks. I have been a shipper for many pairings and have lost my good share. Just because i was not shipping for a pairing doesn't exclude me from having an opinion about who i think had the better chance of winning. I shipped during gurren-laggan,Code geass, shuffle, clannad, true tears, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien , Kashimashi, Myself; Yourself, kimikiss just to list a few.
the last 4 in the list were the last time that my pairing won. Kashimashi is a weird case, but i still won at the very end.
I've a good enough understanding of shipping to know a shipper (however subtle they may try to be) when I see one. You may not be a "true shipper" per say here in Macross, but you're definitely one that jumps on the bandwagon.

Which is why trying to discredit someone because they're a shipper, specifically Tak and Magnus, is like the "pot calling the kettle black".

How long will it be before you try to discredit me because I have opposing opinions and ship Sheryl?

I am going to ask you a question.... Do you think sheryl won after episode 25? I think nobody won at the end. For the most, sheryl's fan believe that until otherwise stated, that sheryl won.
As I already stated, Sheryl ships can't claim outright victory due to the small crack in the door that was left open (which disappoints us greatly no doubt). But we can definitely point out the "factual" things that heavily imply Sheryl is already in the winners circle.

As for me, I am with the majority who believe that the LT is already over... with maybe a tiny, minuscule hint of doubt due to Kawamori's mastery at trolling.

I am not sure what Ranka's fan believe because they have not been as vocal, last thing i heard was that some were saying that Alto chose ranka because he was reaching with his right hand and Ranka was on the right :heh:
Ranka ships have become sparse. Even on RC, the Ranka ships home port, there has been a stark drop in Ranka shipper numbers.

Love is not like a Soccer game! you can be 100 to 1 point in the game of love and in instant the other opponent can score 110 points in the last second. we should have learned that from shows like Canvas2.
Ugh, the Canvas2 analogy again.

Kawamori's a troll alright, but stupid? Most definitely not.

[magnuskn]

What I want is some evidence which points to Sheryl not having won. If there is, and it is compelling, I don´t see why I couldn´t accept it.

Saying "Sheryl didn´t win, because Kawamori chose to not show it in the final episode" is too thin, because going by everything preceding ep 24, she already had it in the bag. Just not saying it outright, but never giving Ranka a leg up to get to even ground ( which didn´t happen in ep 25 ), is not enough.

[kilroy0097]

Wow, this not having a clear winner really has you shipper's panties in a wad. Can we expect more of this debate to last till the movie comes out next year some time? Cause I don't know if you guys will be able to survive the flaming war. Mutually assured destruction of spirit in the end.

BTW no one has won. Sheryl has the favor. Ranka is behind. But the race is technically not over. You can speculate all you want but until Kawamori sings like a canary it's all up in the air with a Sheryl favorable wind.

[BetoJR]

BTW no one has won. Sheryl has the favor. Ranka is behind. But the race is technically not over. You can speculate all you want but until Kawamori sings like a canary it's all up in the air with a Sheryl favorable wind.
That's probably the best summary of the situation I've ever read stated. Good job, sir. :D

[Joachim]

i gave up,even my argument was being used against my own camp.. you are evil golth :heh:

Just to let you know, i myself think sheryl has not won "yet", but to say the triangle was being reseted, i have to disagree, its still in sheryl favour

what i was saying about even some sheryl fans didn't agree with your opinion that the LT was over in eps 23, its just to illustrate how you who looked like shipping sheryl since eps 23 (of course you're not.. you are a neutral right?) and didn't like how sheryl fans now concluding that sheryl has greater favour in LT than ranka was actually doing the same thing from episode 23 until now which somehow changed your whole opinion and you started to force them on

like i said before.. its nice eh being neutral, attacking any camps at your own will :heh:

[golthin]

Wow, this not having a clear winner really has you shipper's panties in a wad. Can we expect more of this debate to last till the movie comes out next year some time? Cause I don't know if you guys will be able to survive the flaming war. Mutually assured destruction of spirit in the end.

BTW no one has won. Sheryl has the favor. Ranka is behind. But the race is technically not over. You can speculate all you want but until Kawamori sings like a canary it's all up in the air with a Sheryl favorable wind.

Like some one said, best summary of the situation! I agree 100%!

[TwilightHack]

Wow, this not having a clear winner really has you shipper's panties in a wad. Can we expect more of this debate to last till the movie comes out next year some time? Cause I don't know if you guys will be able to survive the flaming war. Mutually assured destruction of spirit in the end.
Shippers panties in a wad? By no means. I'm perfectly content with the way things are and will wait patiently till the movie is released.

I came in banging on doors due to some failings on both sides of the fence. And the fact that well... trying to discredit someone because they're a shipper, even though they have good points, is pretty much bs in its highest form.

BTW no one has won. Sheryl has the favor. Ranka is behind. But the race is technically not over. You can speculate all you want but until Kawamori sings like a canary it's all up in the air with a Sheryl favorable wind.
Though I have my own beliefs about the LT, what you said there describes the situation exactly.

Which is why the Sheryl camp, even though ahead, can't outright, 100% for sure, proclaim Sheryl's win.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Like some one said, best summary of the situation! I agree 100%!

Err... But you did say the LT was resetted in Ep. 25. What the hell...?

[BetoJR]

Err... But you did say the LT was resetted in Ep. 25. What the hell...?
Not really consistent, now, is he? :heh:

[TwilightHack]

Not really consistent, now, is he? :heh:
Not really? That's an understatement if I've ever heard one.

[magnuskn]

Yeah, well. The idea that the triangle was reset in ep 25 is preposterous at best, so I guess he retreated to a safer position.

[Danish78]

Give the guy a break peeps. He's disappointed enough that Alto didn't die in ep24 and couldn't see how he could have survived his VF blowing up. ;)

[TwilightHack]

Give the guy a break peeps. He's disappointed enough that Alto didn't die in ep24 and couldn't see how he could have survived his VF blowing up. ;)
/sarcasm much? :heh:

It was clearly shown how Alto survived in ep 25! :D Then again, some people might have missed that part just like everything else...

/facepalm :twitch:

[Westlo]

I wonder how Ranka will react when after those 3 finish talking and it's night time and Sheryl says "time to head to our house Alto. what are you cooking tonight?".

[Natsuki Hyuga]

5. Alto's purpose was revived after he saved Ranka and also revived Ranka's hopes.


Excuse me while I may address the point that is supposed to have been answered by Twilight Hack, but how do you reach the conclusion that Alto's purpose was revived after he saved Ranka? :eyebrow:

[raile]

I wonder how Ranka will react when after those 3 finish talking and it's night time and Sheryl says "time to head to our house Alto. what are you cooking tonight?".

Ranka will try to invite herself in but Brera-nichan will drag her home for bedtime. :heh:

[hai_san]

btw if we do a analogy of the LT to a soccer match, i would say that Sheryl scored and was leading but due Kawamori the game got cancelled and there will a rematch in the movie...

[Anh_Minh]

Excuse me while I may address the point that is supposed to have been answered by Twilight Hack, but how do you reach the conclusion that Alto's purpose was revived after he saved Ranka? :eyebrow:

It totally was. But then, I think Alto's purpose was to have both girls.

[magnuskn]

Ranka will try to invite herself in but Brera-nichan will drag her home for bedtime. :heh:

I was about to say that Brera and Ozma would probably fight about who could take care of Ranka, but at this moment I guess Ozma doesn´t mind having the apartment to himself... and Cathy. :naughty:

[KiraYamatoFan]

btw if we do a analogy of the LT to a soccer match, i would say that Sheryl scored and was leading but due Kawamori the game got cancelled and there will a rematch in the movie...

Except that either Kawamori or some other executive forgot that anime fans in Japan can be sometimes crazy enough to make a riot "on the pitch" in the media against the "referee". :heh:

[justavisitor]

Wow, the shipper's war is still going on? XD

Overall, I think the episode is perfect...That's what the macross ending is supposed to be...throwing everything you can find towards both sides...(That's why I like this and DYRL ending more than plus and zero..not that they aren't good...but i just like big battle end XD)

As for the LT, from Ranka fans point of view, when Sheryl, such a beautiful lady who has a great personality keeps chasing the main character from episode 5 to 24, yet Alto still cannot make an apparent decision, what kind of conclusion can we make?

A) he is retarded
B) the director is milking for the movie
C) He just wants both (after all, no one says the law in Frontier about Marriage has to be 1+1 XD)
or...
D) Maybe the bond between Alto and Ranka is deeper than we all thought it was

Just my thought

[magnuskn]

Wow, the shipper's war is still going on? XD

Overall, I think the episode is perfect...That's what the macross ending is supposed to be...throwing everything you can find towards both sides...(That's why I like this and DYRL ending more than plus and zero..not that they aren't good...but i just like big battle end XD)

As for the LT, from Ranka fans point of view, when Sheryl, such a beautiful lady who has a great personality keeps chasing the main character from episode 5 to 24, yet Alto still cannot make an apparent decision, what kind of conclusion can we make?

A) he is retarded
B) the director is milking for the movie
C) He just wants both (after all, no one says the law in Frontier about Marriage has to be 1+1 XD)
or...
D) Maybe the bond between Alto and Ranka is deeper than we all thought it was

Just my thought

Actually, no. All Ranka shippers have gone away, we are just left with Golthin, who claims to be non-partisan ( but cleary isn´t ) and wants to troll us a final time before buggering off.

Sheryl won by any measure but the show explicitly giving us a final picture of her and Alto walking off into the sunset.

[Wesley84]

A) he is retarded

Definiently. Ranka had good reason to give up on him, but he saved her again so of course she has to be all up in his ass with her head once more.

B) the director is milking for the movie

And the cycle continues. More money, for shitty productions to make more money for more you get the idea.

C) He just wants both (after all, no one says the law in Frontier about Marriage has to be 1+1 XD)
or...

Ha. I'd say there's no indication he wants either of them. I don't care what people read into anything he's ever said or done. To me, he's just an actor that likes to spout senseless bullshit.

D) Maybe the bond between Alto and Ranka is deeper than we all thought it was

Episode 21 indicates very little in the way of a bond. You saw how contemptously he treated her in that and the following episodes. He wouldn't listen to her, he believed every word Leon told him about her being The Ultimate Evil and resolved to kill her because he wanted to look like a grown-up and not just some silly actor.

[justavisitor]

Episode 21 indicates very little in the way of a bond. You saw how contemptously he treated her in that and the following episodes. He wouldn't listen to her, he believed every word Leon told him about her being The Ultimate Evil and resolved to kill her because he wanted to look like a grown-up and not just some silly actor.

I would say Yes and NO to this one...I agree that asking one to go with ai-kun and travel to the planet full of varja with only one jet is just crazy. Alto gave the "WTH" look and before he can think twice, she is already gone with her brother

As for the bond, thoughout the series, Ranka and Alto have been in life/death situation for at least 4 times...(Alto saved her 3 times and Ranka saves her once)
Fortunately for us, we never likely can experience those life/death moment so we really can't save that they have no developement at all or those developements aren't big

[Wesley84]

I would say Yes and NO to this one...I agree that asking one to go with ai-kun and travel to the planet full of varja with only one jet is just crazy. Alto gave the "WTH" look and before he can think twice, she is already gone with her brother

As for the bond, thoughout the series, Ranka and Alto have been in life/death situation for at least 4 times...(Alto saved her 3 times and Ranka saves her once)
Fortunately for us, we never likely can experience those life/death moment so we really can't save that they have no developement at all or those developements aren't big

I didn't say it was crazy. You missed the point I was making. He didn't have any faith in Ranka at all. She was just a little girl that needed to be rescued and humored at times as far as he was concerned, that ultimately would have to be killed because Alto's an asshole.

[Seifall]

I wonder how Ranka will react when after those 3 finish talking and it's night time and Sheryl says "time to head to our house Alto. what are you cooking tonight?".


You should wonder first, how is your sagittarius-1 doing ?! :heh:

Actually, no. All Ranka shippers have gone away, we are just left with Golthin, who claims to be non-partisan ( but cleary isn´t ) and wants to troll us a final time before buggering off.

Sheryl won by any measure but the show explicitly giving us a final picture of her and Alto walking off into the sunset.

How come I'm not a bit surprised ?! ;) Sheryl, won ?! ....:uhoh:

[magnuskn]

You should wonder first, how is your sagittarius-1 doing ?! :heh:

How about you talk coherently, so we know what the hell you are saying?

How come I'm not a bit surprised ?! ;) Sheryl, won ?! ....:uhoh:

Pretty much, yeah. She is living with Alto, she is kissing Alto, she is probably sleeping with Alto, she has his confidence, she has his concern. Ranka also has the last, but that was so since the first episode in which she got herself into danger.

The only way Ranka can get between those two, is if she sets herself up to be the spoiler, trying to drive a wedge into their relationship. I hope that isn´t a position you´d want to see Ranka in?

[Danish78]

You should wonder first, how is your sagittarius-1 doing ?! :heh:

Erm.... Isn't Alto fine? You are referring to him right? Sag-1 is Alto's call sign and at the end of ep25 he's making a landing towards Sheryl and Ranka so what exactly are you getting at?

How come I'm not a bit surprised ?! ;) Sheryl, won ?! ....:uhoh:

Understandably you're upset reading these declarations but why don't you just let it go? You aren't putting up any logical arguments to refute these claims so just let them slide for the meantime; load up on credible ammo (facts) and just resume your shipping war then ok?;)

[golthin]

Wow, the shipper's war is still going on? XD

Overall, I think the episode is perfect...That's what the macross ending is supposed to be...throwing everything you can find towards both sides...(That's why I like this and DYRL ending more than plus and zero..not that they aren't good...but i just like big battle end XD)

As for the LT, from Ranka fans point of view, when Sheryl, such a beautiful lady who has a great personality keeps chasing the main character from episode 5 to 24, yet Alto still cannot make an apparent decision, what kind of conclusion can we make?

A) he is retarded
B) the director is milking for the movie
C) He just wants both (after all, no one says the law in Frontier about Marriage has to be 1+1 XD)
or...
D) Maybe the bond between Alto and Ranka is deeper than we all thought it was

Just my thought

you are asking for trouble. This place has become only a forum for Sheryl's fan. 95% of the people still posting in Most forums are Sheryl's fans trying to push their agenda of "until otherwise stated Sheryl won". One has to be either with Sheryl or with Ranka, not middle ground and not ground for changes unless if you become a fully Shipper for either of the camps. They only read what they want. I have said that Sheryl was ahead before. Reset doesn't mean that both girls are in the same level, just that sheryl's advantage was reduced from what it was before. Sheryl had the victory in the bag before, but now is back to full fledge LT.

I agreed with someone that Sheryl was ahead , and i am being called inconsistant. Oh well, I can't win against so many sheryl's fans, So i am going to let you have your victory, it doesn't really matter who win, but it does to you guys. I am being called a shipper. who am i shipping for? Sheryl or Ranka?

By the way, I was trolled about Alto's death by Kawamori. A few days after episode 24, I retracted my opinion because people came with good theories of how he could have escaped(long before episode 25 broadcast). I realized that there was no way Alto could be dead. I also said that I was a full shipper for alto dying and always will be. I was disappointed that he didn't die. I don't like the guy at all, and said so before episode 25. the way he treated both girls kept me from becoming a shipper for any of the girls.

[BetoJR]

the way he treated both girls kept me from becoming a shipper for any of the girls.
In what way has he treated any of the girls wrongfully, if I may be so bold as to ask?

[monir]

Understandably you're upset reading these declarations but why don't you just let it go? You aren't putting up any logical arguments to refute these claims so just let them slide for the meantime; load up on credible ammo (facts) and just resume your shipping war then ok?;)
Agreed! Any shipping by either side, especially in this thread, is figment of imagination stretched to its limit. Time to accept facts as they are laid out. Admitting to oneself is the first step toward full recovery. :p

[justavisitor]

you are asking for trouble. This place has become only a forum for Sheryl's fan. 95% of the people still posting in Most forums are Sheryl's fans trying to push their agenda of "until otherwise stated Sheryl won". One has to be either with Sheryl or with Ranka, not middle ground and not ground for changes unless if you become a fully Shipper for either of the camps. They only read what they want. I have said that Sheryl was ahead before. Reset doesn't mean that both girls are in the same level, just that sheryl's advantage was reduced from what it was before. Sheryl had the victory in the bag before, but now is back to full fledge LT.

I agreed with someone that Sheryl was ahead , and i am being called inconsistant. Oh well, I can't win against so many sheryl's fans, So i am going to let you have your victory, it doesn't really matter who win, but it does to you guys. I am being called a shipper. who am i shipping for? Sheryl or Ranka?


Thanks for the advice

By the way, I am a Ranka fan tho (I think you thought i was a Sheryl fans??)

[TwilightHack]

DFTT's. That's all the advice I can offer to you guys who reply to the "it makes no sense", "no-basis" posters. In the end you'll get frustrated.

Excuse me while I may address the point that is supposed to have been answered by Twilight Hack, but how do you reach the conclusion that Alto's purpose was revived after he saved Ranka? :eyebrow:5) There you are speculating for Ranka.
That's what I answered.

----

you are asking for trouble. This place has become only a forum for Sheryl's fan. 95% of the people still posting in Most forums are Sheryl's fans trying to push their agenda of "until otherwise stated Sheryl won".
Asking for trouble? His post brings up plausible points and is less troubling to me than say Seifall's or Wesley's.

And pushing our agenda on you? A majority of us are merely stating our opinions supported with non-tinted facts. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the fire.

One has to be either with Sheryl or with Ranka, not middle ground and not ground for changes unless if you become a fully Shipper for either of the camps.
Well, saying you're middle ground while stating one is ahead is clearly NOT middle ground.

I wouldn't have labeled you inconsistent or a shipper if you hadn't jumped camp at least 3 times (Ranka -> Sheryl -> Neutral) while openly proclaiming each... each time and why.

They only read what they want. I have said that Sheryl was ahead before. Reset doesn't mean that both girls are in the same level, just that sheryl's advantage was reduced from what it was before. Sheryl had the victory in the bag before, but now is back to full fledge LT.
I read whatever is in front of me. If you have a delusion that I'm a tinted shipper, you're quite mistaken.

And to reset means to turn things back to even, neutral, 0-0. For example, you don't reset a game and expect your previous score to still be there (only lower) when it starts up again.

I agreed with someone that Sheryl was ahead , and i am being called inconsistant. Oh well, I can't win against so many sheryl's fans, So i am going to let you have your victory, it doesn't really matter who win, but it does to you guys. I am being called a shipper. who am i shipping for? Sheryl or Ranka?
Feeling the heat? Think of this as advice in a learning process.

Until you prove otherwise... you'll always be hounded until you can make up your mind about being neutral or not, stop say statements that contradict yourself, and stay consistent with your beliefs. You'll also always be bashed until you give up trying to discredit shippers who have clear and concise, non-tinted arguments towards what they believe.

By the way, I was trolled about Alto's death by Kawamori. A few days after episode 24, I retracted my opinion because people came with good theories of how he could have escaped(long before episode 25 broadcast). I realized that there was no way Alto could be dead. I also said that I was a full shipper for alto dying and always will be. I was disappointed that he didn't die. I don't like the guy at all, and said so before episode 25. the way he treated both girls kept me from really becoming a shipper for any of the girls.
lol... you're being trolled by Kawamori even now.

I don't even know what to say to "Death to Alto" shipping. If that's your cup of tea, that's fine by me.

----

Agreed! Any shipping by either side, especially in this thread, is figment of imagination stretched to its limit. Time to accept facts as they are laid out. Admitting to oneself is the first step toward full recovery. :p
See, monir is a prime example of a neutral ship. He's been a constant throughout the series, stating things as they are and not leaning either way.

Even so, I have to disagree with you monir that Alto x Sheryl is only a figment of our imagination. There were just too many things... but I am thankful for your thoughts.

Like I said, I'm patiently awaiting the movie and have abstained from more active shipping practices.

[Lyenyo]

Sorry if this has been asked but 50 pages is alot to read through x.x

Could someone tell me what this was?: http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/2151/5665tu4.jpg

Ta =)

[Seifall]

Understandably you're upset reading these declarations but why don't you just let it go?

:twitch:

You aren't putting up any logical arguments to refute these claims

That's my line :D



so just let them slide for the meantime; load up on credible ammo (facts) and just resume your shipping war then ok?;)


You want arguments ?! I have plenty....
You want credible facts ?! I have ones too...
Resuming my shipping war ?! Huh I didn't come here since the final episode and looks like you're all saying Sheryl won without even an argument like you said to proove it.
No one won, since he choose no one ...
But OK, looks like it's time to show you what is the real definition of the word trick ;)


I didn't see it but did you say Alto's call sign at the end is sagittarius 1 ????!!!! He kept his Skull 4 calling Battle Frontier, and asking Sheryl to wake up Ranka...
And what exactly am I getting at ?! I just talked to Westlo who said made a link between Sagittarius 1 and Sheryl's constellation...
Really.... shipping war ?! who are the ones who ship non stop since the final huh?! I just read post since the 25th and I wasn't here nor the major part of people who support Ranka...

[TwilightHack]

Sorry if this has been asked but 50 pages is alot to read through x.x

Could someone tell me what this was?: http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/2151/5665tu4.jpg

Ta =)
To be honest, we don't quite know. It could be a bird-man reference, something Vajra related, or perhaps Graces cyborg core (this one is a stretch).

[monir]

Even so, I have to disagree with you monir that Alto x Sheryl is a figment of our imagination... but I am thankful for your thoughts.

Like I said, I'm patiently awaiting the movie and have abstained from more active shipping practices.
I've done my fair share of shipping as well. The primary question that needs to be asked is that if the two people that I'm supporting for, has each of them said/indicated clearly in dialogues the liking/loving for each other is mutual, and not just fan's deriving to conclusion based on looks/hints/etc? A clear indication is something like when Alto said in episode 25, "both of you are my wings."

What I'm trying to say is that shipping related argument shouldn't even exist in this thread considering all clues/hints to support the previous argument for any shipping corresponding the trio has been discounted in the episode. Alto's opinion actually matters for any shipping side's declaration, "we've won!!11" to work.

Neither side of the argument has "won" and none has "lost" either. Yet, arguments are still persisting on "winning" and "losing." It can get silly at times, and even a bit annoying, especially, when some of those responses read so aggressive. :p

[justavisitor]

To be honest, we don't quite know. It could be a bird-man reference, something Vajra related, or perhaps Graces cyborg core (this one is a stretch).

I would think that is the part of the varja queen? it really seems like the part where Grace get connected with Varja's head?? Maybe it is the leftover after Alto's shooting...but yeah, it's really unclear

Hope my thought could be useful to you

[Danish78]

It's ok to ship and it's also ok to be neutral but you can't do both at the same time (unless you do two different pairings I mean). Just be civil and try to argue your position on clear facts(and hopefully concise and understandable presentation). Any speculation will most always be attacked. For neutrals its just better to stay out of the way and watch the fireworks between the two sides, interject your opinion once in a while but never try to goad or disrespect a ship for taking a side. This is a public forum and open for all to post their opinions but that shouldn't stop us from respecting each others choices. ;)

@monir
It's just the frustration of not getting a clear winner. A venting thread might be useful hehehe. And some of the early flame-baiting posts in this thread were made by people claiming to be neutral. It was really done in bad taste, trying to incite the wrath of both camps... which is what we see in the more recent posts I guess.

[monir]

@monir
It's just the frustration of not getting a clear winner. A venting thread might be useful hehehe.
And in turn drive myself to madness? My sanity is precious to me. :) And besides, shippers are the worst representative of the characters they are shipping for. Sheryl and Ranka are much better characters than the shippers are capable of adding to those personality just because their views are shrouded by the underlying agenda of shipping. :p

Okay, I'm done with venting as well. :cool:

[vivitoru]

Hello there, this is my first actual post in this forum (however I've been lurking here for quite some time now)
I know I am kind of late posting in this thread (really late) I wanted to ask something I've not seen being discussed before (I may have missed it).
Does the episode 24 preview pic (Sheryl "rip" art) actually point to Alto's wingmen Maruyama?
It seems to be the nose art you can see when he transforms in battroid mode before being killed by the ghost (if this is the case, how cruel of Kawamori T_T)

[TwilightHack]

I try to keep a fairly objective view when shipping.

I've done my fair share of shipping as well. The primary question that needs to be asked is that if the two people that I'm supporting for, has each of them said/indicated clearly in dialogues the liking/loving for each other is mutual, and not just fan's deriving to conclusion based on looks/hints/etc? A clear indication is something like when Alto said in episode 25, "both of you are my wings."
Well, my only rebuttal to that is that we still have to resolve ep 24's Sheryl x Alto scene. That conversation never finished and it still needs to happen, hopefully it's addressed in the movie. If not... well that's one of the biggest misuses of such a well played scene I've seen yet.

And while this may be a stretch bordering my tinted goggles, but I can vouch from personal experience that it is quite possible to tell two people you need them both... but rely on one more heavily then the other. Like you want/need/like one more than the other but need both at your side to do a job and as support.

What I'm trying to say is that shipping related argument shouldn't even exist in this thread considering all clues/hints to support the previous argument for any shipping corresponding the trio has been discounted in the episode. Alto's opinion actually matters for any shipping side's declaration, "we've won!!11" to work.
To be honest, the dialogue in ep 25 was so poorly executed in regards to the LT (concentration to Mecha pr0nz ftw) that to simply disregard everything previously is a travesty! Yes, neither side can proclaim victory, but it wont hurt to state our opinion will it?

This is truly SK's troll mastery at work... which is why I am waiting patiently on the movie. If I hadn't seen a post earlier that upset me, I wouldn't be here in the first place.

Neither side of the argument has "won" and none has "lost" either. Yet, arguments are still persisting on "winning" and "losing." It can get silly at times, and even a bit annoying, especially, when some of those responses read so aggressive. :p
QTF (quoted for truth).

Edit: Added comment
And in turn drive myself to madness? My sanity is precious to me. :) And besides, shippers are the worst representative of the characters they are shipping for. Sheryl and Ranka are much better characters than the shippers are capable of adding to those personality just because their views are shrouded by the underlying agenda of shipping. :p

Okay, I'm done with venting as well. :cool:
I agree, creating a venting thread would lead to soo much trouble. Emotions would run high and the flames would become rampant and out of control. If I didn't know better, you're probably doing your best just not to hit the "WTF PWNT!" button on your mod options and delete all posts concerning shipping.

But wait! Not all shippers are horrible and bad representatives. Delusional tinted goggles shippers? Probably... but the objective realistic ones? Imo, no.

I don't know how you're able to stay sane trying to mod this forum monir, but for that I admire you. Hehe. :D

[Danish78]

:twitch:



That's my line :D



You want arguments ?! I have plenty....
You want credible facts ?! I have ones too...
Resuming my shipping war ?! Huh I didn't come here since the final episode and looks like you're all saying Sheryl won without even an argument like you said to proove it.
No one won, since he choose no one ...
But OK, looks like it's time to show you what is the real definition of the word trick ;)


I didn't see it but did you say Alto's call sign at the end is sagittarius 1 ????!!!! He kept his Skull 4 calling Battle Frontier, and asking Sheryl to wake up Ranka...
And what exactly am I getting at ?! I just talked to Westlo who said made a link between Sagittarius 1 and Sheryl's constellation...
Really.... shipping war ?! who are the ones who ship non stop since the final huh?! I just read post since the 25th and I wasn't here nor the major part of people who support Ranka...

Whoa there! I was just asking a question. Sheesh tempers are flaring all over now huh? Please don't generalize. I for one have not declared Sheryl's victory, haven't even posted anything to defend against your ship so could you lay-off?

Well, if I remember correctly Alto used Saggitarius-1 as his call sign when he piloted the NUNS vf-171ex. The IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) signal identifying Alto as Skull 4 is from his ExGear and its only recognized by Quarter.:p

Oh, nice to see you back by the way. It was admirable of you staying away for a few days as I suggested. Feel free to do as you please or take up my last suggestion again, its a public forum so I can't exactly force you out can I?;)

Clearly you misunderstand my intentions, I just wanted to clarify what you were getting at with your last post. I'm not attacking you, I'm just requesting you make your answer understandable/clear.:cool:

[-Tsuzuki-]

maybe because it is a homage to the anime character that hovered macross to a love story and not only cranky mecha clashing epic fighting anime.

I know. But it's still Minmay, the eternal third wheel.

not to forget that the path of hikaru, misa and minmay is still untold.

I'm hoping that's where this is headed. (Just ditch Minmay.)

[Danish78]

And in turn drive myself to madness? My sanity is precious to me. :) And besides, shippers are the worst representative of the characters they are shipping for. Sheryl and Ranka are much better characters than the shippers are capable of adding to those personality just because their views are shrouded by the underlying agenda of shipping. :p

Okay, I'm done with venting as well. :cool:

Just because you're a shipper doesn't mean you have to hate the opposition. I agree that that statement doesn't apply to the most extreme of shippers. I guess objective and shipper in a single sentence just doesn't work for most huh?

[magnuskn]

Just because you're a shipper doesn't mean you have to hate the opposition. I agree that that statement doesn't apply to the most extreme of shippers. I guess objective and shipper in a single sentence just doesn't work for most huh?

It actually does pretty well. If the other side cannot deliver any logical arguments, however...

[justavisitor]

Just because you're a shipper doesn't mean you have to hate the opposition. I agree that that statement doesn't apply to the most extreme of shippers. I guess objective and shipper in a single sentence just doesn't work for most huh?

Can't agree more. I am a Ranka's fan but I really like Sheryl also (but of course, I like Ranka more).

I guess part of the reason I am a Ranka's fan is because I am a Minmay fan in DYRL (i didn't watch the original) And I can never forget the part that hikaru dumps Minmay, she is already so sad, but hikaru just has to chase her in order to give her a slap. I just think that it's too cruel for Minmay, so I want Ranka/Minmay this time has a good ending. (i know Ranka is not Minmay, but from ep 1 and 2 in frontier, the analogy is just so strong)

[Danish78]

Can't remember SDF:M anymore but planning to re-watch that, although on some forums they say Minmay tv series was really unbearable. Thanks for agreeing. ;)

[Zaku_II]

Can't agree more. I am a Ranka's fan but I really like Sheryl also (but of course, I like Ranka more).

I guess part of the reason I am a Ranka's fan is because I am a Minmay fan in DYRL (i didn't watch the original) And I can never forget the part that hikaru dumps Minmay, she is already so sad, but hikaru just has to chase her in order to give her a slap. I just think that it's too cruel for Minmay, so I want Ranka/Minmay this time has a good ending. (i know Ranka is not Minmay, but from ep 1 and 2 in frontier, the analogy is just so strong)

Ranka is Minmay from the TV Series, a young girl with the dream to become a star.

Sheryl is Minmay from DYRL, a popstar with fame who fall in love with a pilot.

[golthin]

DFTT's
Well, saying you're middle ground while stating one is ahead is clearly NOT middle ground.


I tell it like I see it. Unlike shippers that go to the extreme. true shippers always have their pairing winning no matter what.

I wouldn't have labeled you inconsistent or a shipper if you hadn't jumped camp at least 3 times (Ranka -> Sheryl -> Neutral) while openly proclaiming each... each time and why.


Again, a true shipper doesn't change his opinion as events go. A true shipper even when they see their girl losing stay with their girl. a true shipper doesn't use logic and a true shipper can see things that are not there. A true shipper hopes for his girl till the very end and even further even when that girl lost. (I still have hopes that Mao and Kai from blood+ can end together)

[TwilightHack]

I tell it like I see it. Unlike shippers that go to the extreme. true shippers always have their pairing winning no matter what.


Again, a true shipper doesn't change his opinion as events go. A true shipper even when they see their girl losing stay with their girl. a true shipper doesn't use logic and a true shipper can see things that are not there. A true shipper hopes for his girl till the very end and even further even when that girl lost. (I still have hopes that Mao and Kai from blood+ can end together)

I've already addressed this previously.

I've a good enough understanding of shipping to know a shipper (however subtle they may try to be) when I see one. You may not be a "true shipper" per say here in Macross, but you're definitely one that jumps on the bandwagon.

Which is why trying to discredit someone because they're a shipper, specifically Tak and Magnus, is like the "pot calling the kettle black".

How long will it be before you try to discredit me because I have opposing opinions and ship Sheryl?
Also, your definition of a "true shipper" = "rabid shipper" which I don't think is correct.
Now please read Danish's excellent post on the matter.

It's ok to ship and it's also ok to be neutral but you can't do both at the same time (unless you do two different pairings I mean). Just be civil and try to argue your position on clear facts(and hopefully concise and understandable presentation). Any speculation will most always be attacked. For neutrals its just better to stay out of the way and watch the fireworks between the two sides, interject your opinion once in a while but never try to goad or disrespect a ship for taking a side. This is a public forum and open for all to post their opinions but that shouldn't stop us from respecting each others choices. ;)
You said you're neutral because things "reset". Now if that were the only case I would understand and be on my way. But at the same time you're saying this, you come out and try to discredit Sheryl ships and their reasons... then go even farther and say Sheryl is ahead.

That is discrediting and contradicting, which frankly makes you a hypocrite.

You keep swaying back and forth which is particularly annoying.
---

Now to get back on topic.

Ranka is Minmay from the TV Series, a young girl with the dream to become a star.

Sheryl is Minmay from DYRL, a popstar with fame who fall in love with a pilot.
Between the two versions of Minmei, who did you like better?

[BetoJR]

I, for one, didn't think the Minmei from the TV series was all that despicable. I mean, sure she fell for Kaifun's little wiles, but... Honestly, she's just kind of a bratty kid in both versions. Whilst it may be cute in small doses, I guess too much is too much, eh? :D

[Traece]

Macross Macross.. Hmm...

Well I watched the episode this morning and now have a chance to give my take.

I'll start with the bad. I gave this episode a 7/10. A large part of that was because of the immense ignorance that seems to occur in the story with the now re-formed love triangle of Alto, Sheryl, and Ranka. I was amazed that Ranka was still going after Alto after apparently, "maturing," to the point where she was over her childish crush on him. Just as well, I'm amazed that Sheryl would allow such a thing at all, considering Sheryl and Alto have been a thousand times better together than Ranka and him could ever be. Ranka herself admits some of the completion that Sheryl brings Alto.

A bit of this episode also felt like tacked-on cheapness, Gundam Seed style. Alto, Ranka, and Sheryl seem to be able to talk to eachother through the sheer will of Ranka and her fold wave magic. Though that might be possible... That's still stupid. The whole thing with Sheryl being saved wasn't as much of an issue... But they really made her illness seem to be like a bunch of nothingness. It's more like, "oh you're dying... THERE, all better." It's like having Cancer and then getting a shot and it going away two minutes later.

That's it? . . . (Not like that would be BAD... But the point is, incurable disease gone in minutes?)

The good was pretty much the rest of the episode, the best being somewhere around the combination of songs sung in the later half whilst Macross Quarter and Battle Frontier duke it out with Battle Galaxy, and Macross Quarter rips Battle Galaxy several thousand new ones. That scene was fantastic. I loved it, and I'd watch it again.

All in all, I thought the ending was pretty average. I tend to rate the LAST EPISODE of something based on the quality of its ending. How it wraps things up. The attention to details in the show. The extent of closure.

Macross Frontier was your average, "everything goes! No holding back! They live on, you don't hear from them again," ending. I liked it. They did things well. But it's no Code Geass. It doesn't get a ten from me in a million years.

Sheryl and Alto could do the deed and have children... I'd probably still rate it a nine. The ending and how things worked out were just too strange.

But then I suppose this post is flameworthy. I am talking about Macross after all. I respect the show, and I like the show... But Macross solves everything with singing and although I love singing I find that having the only thing singing can't do is destroy planets (please tell me singing has NEVER blown up a planet in Macross. Just... Please tell it hasn't) is a bit farfetched. With that having been said though... The quality of the scores and the variety of songs makes up for the fact that singing does everything short of blow up a planet (or at least... To my knowledge).

[Wesley84]

I was hoping Quarter would get blown away at some point. Captial ship deaths can be more awe-inspiring and tragic than a million snipers. Didn't even necessarily need to kill off any characters in the process. Just watch it slowly get torn to pieces, until finally KA-BOOM! And then the postmortem wreckage followed by cremation in atmosphere.

Naturally this probably impossible with a giant wanked to hell CG monstrosity.

[Seifall]

Like I said it earlier, I thought the love triangle was UNRESOLVED but some people think Sheryl won and the final episode payed tribute to Misa and Hikaru throught Alto and Sheryl, so it's a sign that Sheryl won ....:uhoh:
The salute, the earring, Ranka's " I will not lose to you nor in love or songs" are a hint for you ?! OK.... :D
Just before exposing some arguments, I know people will say this should go to the romance thread but I am responding to some post in this thread which since the 25 ended, claim that the LT is(for some tacitly)resolved and the movie will proove it ..
I will not just talk about romance... ;) actually, some points aren't really focused on the romance plot ..


The earring




However, the ingenuity of Kawamori comes in when the camera focused on Alto's earring.


You surely talked about this picture : the earring sparkles...
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4249/anime0025je4it4.jpg

You're not the only one who say it, that, it's a symbol of their love ( Alto and Sheryl).
This is certainly not the case.... ;)
Because the camera focused on Alto's earring, right, but meanwhile Alto said " Sheryl, Ranka, you opened the sky..."
I don't know what is that exceptionnal about that earring, except that Sheryl already wore it :D ...
So, because the camera focused on Alto's earring, that's it!, Sheryl means more to Alto ?! ...
They focused on it too in the 7 and Alto heard Sheryl AND Ranka both singing, in this episode, he was able to see Ranka because of that earring, he even asked Sheryl to sing for Ranka...


http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4415/anime0023hl1ac5.jpg
My,,,
All Sheryl's fan who grasp their hopes in that earring, look at the picture :D
How they focused on the earring, how much it sparkles, Alto must really be in love with Sheryl, since it sparkled countless times in this episode...

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5981/anime0000iy1xi0.jpg
My bad, it was because of the vajra..... ;)




Now, in Japanese culture, when a woman trusts an ornament to a man, it pretty much means marriage.



.......
Klan treasures now Michel's belongings so much that you can call it an ornament, like with his glasses, by example.
But she did something unbelievable in this final episode, what ? :

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/3179/anime0024fm8ec7.jpg

It's official now, Klan and Alto will be in front of the priest soon. :)



Given that Alto still wears it at the end, that entire scene speaks volumes.

Given that Alto still keep his sign call Skull 4 at the end with which he protects Ranka from the beginning , even though he was supposed to stay with his new one, Sagittarius-1 = Sheryl's constellation, his action speaks volume .




Ranka's line " I will not lose to you, nor in songs or love" which, here, is a sign of Ranka who becomes the outsider next to sheryl.




Before, here :

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2458/zerora0001kt8.png
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8063/shinsen0008nu2.png
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/4223/zerora0000oj1.png
The link ? You are right in saying how Sheryl and alto got to share a lot of time together.
The poor Ranka just could kiss him one time and the only opportunity was in acting in a movie..
But Sheryl as self confident as always took the initiave, too bad, when you rewatch the picture you see she was always the one who did it until the end...
Conclusion of the LT : We were all being tricked....



Ranka at the end of the final said " I will not lose to you, nor in songs or love" which is a sign of Ranka who becomes the outsider next to sheryl".. :uhoh:

So because Ranka said this, she is the loser?!




But facts are facts, Ranka is behind, and she admits to it. Give it up, people.


He may have evened the odds but it's still in Sheryl's favor as shown by several scenes throughout 25 let alone the events of 16-24. I mean c'mon, don't tell me Ranka's "Sheryl-san I won't loose from singing and love" didn't come off as a "rival" line. Seriously she came off as one of those 3rd wheels in a harem show telling the main girl that "it's not over yet". She's like the Tessa/Yoshida/Siesta to Sheryl's Kaname/Shana/Louise in that scene lol.



Huh, OK so what is that ? :



I mean c'monhttp://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4719/lunar0005ne0cx6.jpg



don't tell me Sheryl's " Ranka-chan I won't loose from singing and love" act in front of Alto didn't come off as a "rival" behaviour.http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/8871/lunar0006zq1be3.jpg



Seriously she came off as one of those 3rd wheels in a harem show telling the main girl that "it's not over yethttp://img364.imageshack.us/img364/6382/lunar0004tr0fi4.jpg

:D


You will tell me it was 10 episode ago, I will respond you nothing changed until Ranka's departure.
Even with a missing Ranka we got to see that :
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/4141/horribl0007tr7.png
Sheryl crying and saying " I knew it, but for a liitle longer I wanted to ..."
I will not talk again about the emotionless kiss scene in the 24 but in the end, even when Ranka was at the other side of the Galaxy, Sheryl still couldn't make Alto choose her ?!
...






The famous SALUTE that you all saw but missed at the same time ..... :heh:




It's a homage from the original Macross, where Misa and Hikaru salutes each other too. :D Hints anyone?


Yes, hints ...
People talk about a homage from SDF Macross, I talk about an EPIC HOMAGE FROM MACROSS FRONTIER...



The salute felt like pretty much the same thing to me, it felt like a reminder to Sheryl from Alto that he's done what she asked of him, he's saved ranka-chan & she'll have to listen to whatever it is he wants to tell her later. It just felt like unspoken communication b/w them.


" unspoken communication" ?! :D
OK, for Ranka too then...



Ranka shippers are trying to play down the salute like crazy. But the parallel to Misa/Hikaru is just way too obvious to ignore. Oh well, they can console themselves with the fact that technically Alto did not choose anyone so we have this ambiguous ending...




Console ourselves ?!
Why ?... Alto saluted both of them..


Its highly doubtful that, if you supported Ranka from the beginning, you'd think otherwise even after the subs. A lot of subtle references to that however, is in place.
The salute for example (a subtle homage to Misa and Hikaru).
- Tak

Subtle, it's the word...



I'm beginning to love that salute b/w them, I've played that scene like more than ten times already.


LOL it's kind of funny that you missed it then.... :heh: I saw it two times and I was like that :cool:... Kawamori performed a master stroke...

Oh, yes, that salute is definitely meant for Sheryl. ;) Words couldn't express how precious that scene was, because immediately after I saw the salute, I knew it was the biggest, most direct homage to Hikaru and Misa in Do You Remember Love? they could ever do. It was a touching scene. The salute is as direct as they could get. ;)


Err... I'll just answer these two questions :heh:

You should see musouka's post and you will realize that indeed, Alto (or Alto's VF) salutes Sheryl. Ranka was facing the other way besides Alto's VF was facing Sheryl anyway, with the two ships besides each other and the VF should be in the middle. Don't downplay the salute there, since you really can't bend that one out.


Not after the camera put a zoom on it. Ask yourself, why the focus? Seifall would love to deny anything to empower Sheryl, but if thats the intention of the show, then why the little details?

- Tak


I agree with you here : " why the little details " ?





My favorite single moment was the salute. And, yes, it was between Alto and Sheryl. There were plenty of moments for Ranka/Alto shippers this ep, so be content with those and leave me the most blatant parallel between my second favorite het ship ever.


The two ships are side by side:
http://i35.tinypic.com/34ot253.jpg

You can see a shot of Sheryl's stage on Battle Frontier from Ranka's perspective:
http://i33.tinypic.com/jhrcee.jpg

Alto's VF comes up from between the two ships, right next to Sheryl's far away from Ranka's:
http://i37.tinypic.com/mjsrvp.jpg

Switches modes and begins to incline towards Sheryl:
http://i35.tinypic.com/307ni2p.jpg

Salute! (musouka meeeelts):
http://i34.tinypic.com/j7c45j.jpg

Sheryl's response. Note, Ranka's facing the wrong way, Alto is on the other side:
http://i35.tinypic.com/2rft1s3.jpg

Why is this important?


That's right, pay attention to those lyrics:
http://i38.tinypic.com/28jxsih.jpg

Are you going to try to tell me he's saluting Minmay too? :p
http://i34.tinypic.com/actug3.jpg

It works until you say " Note, Ranka's facing the wrong way, Alto is on the other side".
Alto is not on the other side so your reasoning which says the salute was for Sheryl is not plausible, WHY ? :


This is a Battle Frontier's picture, which I stole to ReddyRedWolf, :rolleyes:, thanks :) http://www.new-un-spacy.com/macrossf/macross25/battle25-attack.jpg
http://www.new-un-spacy.com/macrossf/macross25/battle25-carrier.jpg



As you can see, he is by far larger than Macross Quarter.

Now let's look that picture :
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/158/anime0001xe6bf8.jpg


This is just before Alto showed up...


Here : http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2078/anime0013jp3ni6.jpg
Ranka sings her duet with Sheryl through the TV


You said : " Alto's VF comes up from between the two ships, right next to Sheryl's far away from Ranka's"
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1225/anime0020re9.png


And here is what you said first : "The two ships are side by side".

Now let's look again at this picture: She just just said Alto's name...http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1225/anime0020re9.png



Now look at this picture :
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8314/anime0005mh8tw0.jpg

I, when I watched it in live was surprised to see Sheryl saying Alto and turn her head in a direction where Alto is not...
She just said alto, but right after saying that, she turns her head, looking ahead like the ships direction , the north...
But how come she doesn't look in front of her since we too can see Alto's VF transformation here ?! ...


I'm not expert in animation but it looks obvious that they couldn't put SMS Q , Battle Frontier and Alto's VF in a same background from Sheryl's close perspective.
So to show Alto was between the ships they did made it look like he was close to Battle Frontier instead of SMS Q and right after made Sheryl turn her head in the real direction where Alto is.



She is looking ahead like Battle Frontier's trajectoryhttp://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9062/anime0017lv1.png

She clearly looks for Alto's VF since they just showed us she saw him(when it looks like the ships were close)...


You don't believe me ?

In fact , Alto is here :
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1329/anime0002xl4az3.jpg

Why?! Because they showed us again the position of the two ships right after Alto's departure .
The ships aren't side by side :
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/1180/anime0022tz9dm1.jpg
Macross Quarter is on Battle Frontier, so lightly ahead, Alto must be ahead too , for Ranka and Sheryl can see him.
People still don't believe ?! OK let me show you THE proof...

The salute...


http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8486/anime0015iy5sg8.jpg

People are so glad , WOW, he saluted Sheryl !!!
A pure homage to SDF Macross with Hikaru who saluted Misa in the same way!!!
This is such a beautiful homage since Hikaru confessed to Misa after that and we all know that they ended up together...
So the major part of people, mostly Sheryl 's fan jumped at the conclusion that this was the final homage to the original Macross so it's a strong message here = Sheryl is the one who Alto loves... :rolleyes:

You will agree with me that Kawamori payed attention to do parallels with Misa, Hikaru and Minmei but ,WHAT !?!
Alto didn't choose Sheryl at the end, nor Ranka, so the homage stops here and the symbolism falls but would have had a meaning if Alto did chose Sheryl which didn't happen.. And yes, there is a movie but I will let you speculate about the continuation of Alto and Sheryl/Hikaru, Misa's love story... ;)
So an homage from the old Macross serie can, of course be intrerpreted as a parallel for the characters, but AN HOMAGE FROM MACROSS FRONTIER is indeed THE symbol here since, I will show it, this is based on Alto and Ranka ONLY not about Misa/Sheryl and Hikaru/Alto ...


Here, the answers :
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3816/anime0018nm1lx9.jpg

Sheryl is responding but Ranka too...

So Ranka obviously has seen Alto's movement.

You said that: " Sheryl's response. Note, Ranka's facing the wrong way, Alto is on the other side"

It's not because Sheryl is facing her screen and because Ranka has her back to the screen that she can't see the salute, ...

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9260/anime0003wj8.pngSheryl's stage


http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3624/anime0004nf2.png Ranka's stage

Sheryl's stage without the main screen :
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7061/anime0001ow3hx6.jpg

Here is the same stage with the main screen :
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2867/zerora0000vu5ns6.jpg

Sheryl's screen is not on the side like in the scene where she singed with Ranka here :

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1225/anime0020re9.png

But her screen is ahead.


So in this scene :
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9062/anime0017lv1.png

Sheryl was looking at the biggest screen not the one on the side. You can see Ranka is looking in front of her too, not the screen on the side....

So the reasoning which says "Ranka's facing the wrong way, Alto is on the other side" is wrong here.

They're both facing the main screen, in front of the stage, not the small one on the side.



This is why we saw this:

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3816/anime0018nm1lx9.jpg

Sheryl is responding, but Ranka too. Look at her sign with the three fingers, she is responding to Alto here ...

People still don't believe me, am I talking nonsense ?! OK...


Here is the final PROOF :

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6286/shinsen0003ps8gv6.jpg
Alto is saluting Ranka and says " yo".
They shared their first and last kiss in this episode and Alto was consenting unlike when Sheryl kissed him in the 10 and 24.. (yes, shared, and people don't even try to say it wasn't shared since I can show you his expression in episode 24 when Sheryl kissed him ...)

This is the first and last time, in the serie that we saw Alto blushing like that knowing he will kiss Ranka :
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1350/shinsen0004ct6zl3nx4bq5bi4.jpg

People talked about a beautiful homage for Alto/Hikaru and Sheryl/Misa ?

This : http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/6286/shinsen0003ps8gv6.jpg is THE MOST EPIC HOMAGE to Ranka and Alto only,not Misa/hikaru sheryl/Alto... AN UNNOTICED EPIC HOMAGE :D


Hum what is the link ?! No, I am not saying nonsense, this is actually pretty logic...

Here is the link : http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/4493/anime0016tj8dz4.jpg


:heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh: Kawamori is indeed a GENIUS :heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh:



I don't really know if the movie can still focus on Alto, Ranka and Sheryl, since a lot of questions are still unresolved at the end of the serie with Bilrer, Sheryl's parents, Galaxy..
But I hope the movie is a continuation of the final episode, and that Alto cling on his sky but with Ai kun and Ranka :D

OD, ani_d ,let's root for Sheryl x Brera now :heh:

[Jazzrat]

ehhh Brera x Alto is more likely than Sheryl x Brera

[forgottendiary]

ehhh Brera x Alto is more likely than Sheryl x Brera

Careful with what you say, you might just end up receiving a humongous wall of text explaining why Brera x Alto is a no-no.

[BetoJR]

Good Lord, Seifall, such a long post with so many pictures and you still don't understand basic perspective? It boggles the mind, it really does. :heh:

Ranka did not respond to Alto's salute. She didn't see it. Your pretty collection of pictures is so much the definition of Epic Fail that's not even funny. :D

What you fail at is providing a resounding argument as to how Alto could be saluting both girls. His VF didn't turn to acknowledge both. Thus, it's understandable he only saluted ONE of them. The VF is shown facing Sheryl. Sheryl responds to the salute. Ranka did not respond to it, she was just singing and dancing by herself - she did not even SEE him, then. Hence, the salute was for Sheryl alone. Subtle, yes. But not something you can actually disprove, sorry.

[Seifall]

:heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh: I showed you facts and you respond me with what ?! nothing ;)

[musouka]

Oh Seifall. I can refute you with three pictures.


Note the color of Sheryl's stage? It's purple.
http://i33.tinypic.com/jhrcee.jpg


Note the color of Ranka's stage? It's yellow.
http://i37.tinypic.com/mjsrvp.jpg


Let's play "find the stages!", Seifall! Oh wait, I did all the work for you.
http://i36.tinypic.com/2ai0k6f.jpg

Better luck next time~

[vivitoru]

I agree with you that Kawamori is indeed a genius (a devious one at that)
Dropping all those hints throughout the course of the entire serie to reach such an inconclusive ending (regarding the triangle) is quite an achievement.

[Seifall]

:heh: So what is your point here ?! Where did I say the contrary ?!
I even said they couldn't put Alto SMS Q Battle Frontier and Alto's VF in the same background... ;)

[BetoJR]

:heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh: I showed you facts and you respond me with what ?! nothing ;)
That was because you HAD nothing. You failed at providing some argument, thus... nothing. :heh:

:heh: So what is your point here ?! Where did I say the contrary ?!
I even said they couldn't put Alto SMS Q Battle Frontier and Alto's VF in the same background... ;)
Of course they can. The difference in scale from the measly VF to Macross Quarter is way more than enough for them to share the same background, sorry. :D

[stormy001_M1A2]

Threesome.....threesome.....threesome :D (chanting)

[forgottendiary]

Oh Seifall. I can refute you with three pictures.


Note the color of Sheryl's stage? It's purple.
http://i33.tinypic.com/jhrcee.jpg


Note the color of Ranka's stage? It's yellow.
http://i37.tinypic.com/mjsrvp.jpg


Let's play "find the stages!", Seifall! Oh wait, I did all the work for you.
http://i36.tinypic.com/2ai0k6f.jpg

Better luck next time~

EDIT because I was looking at the wrong artefact
And to add to that:

http://img.skitch.com/20080929-qg229du1b5b7i8y6bbnyp9c4mp.jpg

[musouka]

I even said they couldn't put Alto SMS Q Battle Frontier and Alto's VF in the same background... ;)

Sure they can. They're at the same height, just far away from one another. It's just a testament of how huge Battle Frontier is. Where you have Alto located, neither girl would have noticed the tiny pinprick VF.

Keep on trying, though. It's almost cute.

[Seifall]

:heh::heh::heh: I see people are in denial....
:D Who will dare here to say that Alto's sign in episode 10 has nothing to do with his in the final ?! Who ?! ;)

[BetoJR]

And to add to that:

http://img.skitch.com/20080929-exjqp5arxwi19qguxwec3xua3h.jpg
Oh, that was just mean. :heh:

:heh::heh::heh: I see people are in denial....
:D Who will dare here to say that Alto's sign in episode 10 has nothing to do with his in the final ?! Who ?! ;)
Of course it does. That's how he greets people!!! :D