Is the status of anime moving up in the world?

[blewin]

Is the status of anime moving up in the world? it certainly is more widespread and known, but remains "somewhat kiddy" in typical Western world. I'm bringing this topic up because in Australia, we're actually teaching manga and anime materials in schools within English, rather than foreign language as in Japanese and Japanese culture. This is happening right now but unfortunately, after I've left high school. Anime texts can also be studied on HSC level (the exam you take to get into university). Some titles include:

Naruto, Twelve Kingdoms, Arjuna....

well, I'm sure there're others, but info is hard to come by as it's still quite a new concept here. Not many teachers are keen and knowledgeable enough to teach anime texts.

[Kaze]

I'm bringing this topic up because in Australia, we're actually teaching manga and anime materials in schools within English, rather than foreign language as in Japanese and Japanese culture. This is happening right now but unfortunately, after I've left high school. Anime texts can also be studied on HSC level (the exam you take to get into university). Some titles include:

Naruto, Twelve Kingdoms, Arjuna....

Wait... what?
You are getting anime and manga in school?
Woah, I wouldn't even think about ever seeing stuff like that in my college

[yoruichi fan]

well the librarian at my high school wants to buy a bunch of manga and is asking my friends and I for suggestions. So i would say that more and more people are starting to see things for what they really are and not listen to the rumors about anime as much

[Shadow Kira01]

Probably not.

[animeboy12]

teaching? really? I love anime and manga but I don't think it makes good teaching material. I'm too sure about it moving up but at my highschool library there are volumes of manga.

[Vexx]

Hey, they have Sports Illustrated in school libraries trying to get the kids to read. Manga would just be another way to encourage the habit of reading. That's probably the motivator of your librarian.

I can see where certain elements might be useful in illuminating cultural memes, but that'd be in a cultural studies or language class.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

I agree with Vexx on this, that its just another way of premoting reading. Well I do know that you can find manga in most any library around my area. Doesn't mean a bunch of people check them out to read though.

If you were to ask me this question around 2003 I'd probably say yes as anime was more "mainstream" around that time what with Spirited Away and the huge flow of anime on Adult Swim and Toonami. It was also around this time I believe that anime was one of the fastest growing segments in DVD rentel market. The anime toy market was huge as well.

Nowadays I think it's died down a bit in the category of anime being "mainstream". Yes there are plenty of people who know what anime is and watch it, but is it moving up in the world? I don't see it.

[Eczema]

In my school, we studied Ghost in the Shell and Spirited Away as part of film analysis.

[blewin]

Hey, they have Sports Illustrated in school libraries trying to get the kids to read. Manga would just be another way to encourage the habit of reading. That's probably the motivator of your librarian.

I can see where certain elements might be useful in illuminating cultural memes, but that'd be in a cultural studies or language class.

one way of studying anime is film anaylsis as Eczema has mentioned.
That's amazing though, Eczema. How's the class's response in watching anime film? Interested? not interested?

as for manga, it is studied in the picture book category, taught mainly in terms of themes. The picture book category is gaining popularity in schools because kids nowadays are impatient and don't like to read too thick a book (sadly, that's the way kids are, with the proliferation of digital entertainment). What I mentioned earlier about studying anime on HSC level is also theme based. You know, it's much the same as you pick up a novel and analyse its plot, characters, symbolisms and themes, only that the medium is not an English novel, but an anime series.

and there are some pretty deep animes and mangas out there, so long as you know how to sieve the good stuff out of the bad and average ones.

[C.A.]

There have been anime and manga clubs in some schools in Singapore. Singapore Polytechnic's club however is recognised even on public scale.

[lubczyk]

I think the status of anime is moving down in the world, even in Japan. Every season we're plagued by ever more harem and ecchi anime along with slice-of-life. The thing is, slice-of-life, harem and ecchi are just too easy to do, it's played out.

It's like in Hollywood, it's really hard to do a straight-up action movie like the old Jean-Claude Van Damme, Steven Seagal, Arnold Schwarzeneggerr, Chuck Norris movies, because, well, all the good ones have already been made.

If you want to do an action movie nowadays you have to mix action with either mystery, thriller or some other genre to keep it interesting.

The same happened with European Classical Music: all the great pieces eventually got made and so people stopped composing them.

I think that Japan will have to branch out outside of the familiar Japanese School setting to keep things interesting, like Aria or Sci-Fi anime.

As it stands, in my opinion, all the great strict slice-of-life, harem, ecchi and school-life anime have already been made.

Look at Key adaptions:

Air
Kanon
2 seasons of Clannad

What else is there?

I can see future releases of Key adaptations dropping in ratings and sales, because well, all the great adaptions will eventually be made and the creativity well would have dried up.

I see the anime industry, with a few exceptions, largely stagnating over the next decade, due in part with the global economic recession and a lack of new ideas.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

The lack of ideas? You think there were not people saying that exact same thing back in the 80s or 70s.

No, Hollywood hasn't run out of good ideas. Sideways, Eternal Sunshine, Lost in Translation, Kill Bill, to name a few. Good amount of indy films out there to please. Even the epics are pretty good (Lord of the Rings, Master and Commander, Gladiator). Come on now every decade has its own facade of crappy films. The 70s, 80s and 90s were no exceptions. In fact, as far as quality-film sparcity goes, no decade touches the 80s in my opinion.

I'm sure if you jumped in a time machine and went back to any given year you'd find that most movies being played in theaters were probably average or sub-par. The number of bad movies has always outwayed the good. People who have never lived in the 70s and say that the movie ideas back then were so much better than todays probably say that due to the fact they have seen none, if very few, bad 70s movies. Contrary to the present day they live in, when they see bad movies everyhwere.

This same logic can be applied to all forms of entertainment.

[lubczyk]

The lack of ideas? You think there were not people saying that exact same thing back in the 80s or 70s.

No, Hollywood hasn't run out of good ideas. Sideways, Eternal Sunshine, Lost in Translation, Kill Bill, to name a few. Good amount of indy films out there to please. Even the epics are pretty good (Lord of the Rings, Master and Commander, Gladiator). Come on now every decade has its own facade of crappy films. The 70s, 80s and 90s were no exceptions. In fact, as far as quality-film sparcity goes, no decade touches the 80s in my opinion.

I'm sure if you jumped in a time machine and went back to any given year you'd find that most movies being played in theaters were probably average or sub-par. The number of bad movies has always outwayed the good. People who have never lived in the 70s and say that the movie ideas back then were so much better than todays probably say that due to the fact they have seen none if very few bad 70s movies. Contrary to the present day they live in when they see bad movies everyhwere.

This same logic can be applied to all forms of entertainment.

None of the movies you listed are straight up action movies, the ones that went out of style a couple of days ago and will probably never be super popular again. There will probably never be another good WW2 movie like Saving Private Ryan or The Thin Red Line, all the good ones have already been made. That might explain why Flags of Our Fathers and letters From Iwo Jima did so poorly, it had been played out by then.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

None of the movies you listed are straight up action movies, the ones that went out of style a couple of days ago and will probably never be super popular again. There will probably never be another good WW2 movie like Saving Private Ryan or The Thin Red Line, all the good ones have already been made. That might explain why Flags of Our Fathers and letters From Iwo Jima did so poorly, it had been played out by then.

Well I wasn't just listing action movies, I was just listing good movies that were unique in their own spectrums of wether it be Comedy, action, whatever. Think about this for a moment. Whatever is popular at the time, there will be plenty of movie trying to copy that formula of success and then there will be the few daring ones who will try to be different. It's always been this way. In the 90s for instance there was a huge amount of Crime Thrillers. In the 80s all the movies revolving around some rebellious kids. Just wait there will be a new batch of movies that will do something different or unique and will become extremely popular. Then we will see a huge flush of movies trying to copy that same effect. Why do you think there are so many Saw movies; People like it. The good quantity of movies are made according to what is liked by the majority.

Also you could say almost every movie ever made follows a similer formula of storytelling, action, characterization in some way shape or form. Half of the movies made are based off books. Its not like the people in Hollywood themselves are coming up with all the ideas.

[Vexx]

None of the movies you listed are straight up action movies, the ones that went out of style a couple of days ago and will probably never be super popular again. There will probably never be another good WW2 movie like Saving Private Ryan or The Thin Red Line, all the good ones have already been made. That might explain why Flags of Our Fathers and letters From Iwo Jima did so poorly, it had been played out by then.

They did poorly because... well, they were too cerebral for JoeSixPack, presenting war in its vast nastiness and the disaster it makes of lives on both sides. They were both quality films that needed to be made and they'll end up in many collector's shelves.

The timing for their release worked against them: the public was pretty war-weary already.

Besides, I'm surprised WW2 films made a comeback at all since "all the good ones have been made" ending in the 1970s ending with Patton and Catch-22. :) (obviously that was proven wrong)

[lubczyk]

They did poorly because... well, they were too cerebral for JoeSixPack, presenting war in its vast nastiness and the disaster it makes of lives on both sides. They were both quality films that needed to be made and they'll end up in many collector's shelves.

The timing for their release worked against them: the public was pretty war-weary already.

Besides, I'm surprised WW2 films made a comeback at all since "all the good ones have been made" ending in the 1970s ending with Patton and Catch-22. :) (obviously that was proven wrong)

In that case, the studios in Japan should focus on not over saturating the marketplace all at the same time. Did Xebec really need to release 3 ecchi comedy series just within 2008? I think not. You'd think Xebec could have made the "Ecchi of ecchi anime" instead of making three of them.

Same with Code Geass and Gundam 00 from Bandai - it almost seems like Bandai could have benefited from making one "ultra mecha show" instead of 2 somewhat good ones.

Same with series like Clannad ~After Story~ It could have waited until 2009 at least to start airing.

I mean, it seems like there's a glut of ecchi, slice-of-life, and mecha anime that come out every single season only to be forgotten due to oversaturation.

[Vexx]

That I won't argue with ... they are over-saturating with the same storyline motifs. I suspect it has to do with the economics in play right now. As the economy contracts, the producers tend to go for the "safer bets'.... which often turns into everyone doing the same damn thing out of fear.

[lubczyk]

That I won't argue with ... they are over-saturating with the same storyline motifs. I suspect it has to do with the economics in play right now. As the economy contracts, the producers tend to go for the "safer bets'.... which often turns into everyone doing the same damn thing out of fear.


I agree companies are making safe bets, therefore; it's a good time for consilidation. Merge some studios together that have similiar ideas. When you have 3 or even 4 teams with an ecchi, harem anime each you might be better off merging those teams into 1 or 2 teams. You know, to pool ideas and resources.

Like, you see, Xebec was producing Kanokan and ToLuvRU at the same time. You could clearly see that the animation budget at least, wen to Kanokon over ToLuvRU. Yes, Kanokon ended first, but the damage had been done. It seemed like both ToLuvRU and Kanokon could have really benefited from the others resources. I mean, instead of making Two seasons of ToLuvRU and One season of Kanokan, maybe Xebec would have been better off producing three seasons of either Kanokon or ToLuvRU.

Their current project, Kyou no Go no Ni, looks like it has almost no budget to speak of.

Once again, I think consolidation in the anime industry is in order. Ther are just many studios doing too many of the samey low budget "safe" shows.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

well, I'm sure there're others, but info is hard to come by as it's still quite a new concept here. Not many teachers are keen and knowledgeable enough to teach anime texts.

Anime texts? Isn't that kind of an oxymoron? :confused:

[cyth]

Once again, I think consolidation in the anime industry is in order. Ther are just many studios doing too many of the samey low budget "safe" shows.Even if companies allocate more resources to their shows, do you honestly believe such investments are more profitable? I mean, as a producer you already have a target audience in mind, so do you think you'll sell twice as many DVDs if you double your budget? In my opinion, this is most unlikely. Anime creators are continuously struggling between target audience's expectation, fan expectations, producer's expectation, their own ambitions, and anime medium's limited domestic (and foreign) sales potential. You know, anime products have very little chances of breaking into the mainstream solely because of what they are. You can't just make a good product and expect it to sell because it's good or because you tried marketing it. The R1 anime industry has been doing this for the last decade--bringing good shows over to the U.S., marketing the hell out of them--but they achieved very moderate results.

[animeboy12]

anyway back to the questions. I'm inclined to say no. Mainstream, with the passing of dbz and pokemon it's status has lowered down. Anime's nowaday appeal to a younger less mature audience

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

anyway back to the questions. I'm inclined to say no. Mainstream, with the passing of dbz and pokemon it's status has lowered down. Anime's nowaday appeal to a younger less mature audience

I'm pretty sure most of the people who watched those anime back at the height of their popularity were young and less mature as well.

[Thingle]

Anime texts? Isn't that kind of an oxymoron? :confused:

Maybe he meant essays that deal with anime/ use anime as reference.

I don't mind the low budget harems as I don't touch them anyway. However, I hope that gems spring out every season. We need more shows like Shigurui, for example.

[radioIzzy]

I'm not sure about actual anime, but the popularity in anime drawing is going up that's for sure.

Because I can definately tell you that the style of anime is going crazy in N. America. Ever went to a bookstore and went to the drawing section; you'll most likely find mountains of "How to Draw Anime" kind of books, most of which are authored by amateurs trying to make a cheap buck out of the whole anime craze.

I still think in N. America, people still see anime as childish. The more mature shows like Claymore are getting there, but still moderately low in popularity in comparison to other shows.

But I found a lot of people starting to draw the "anime" style. When DBZ first came out, there wasn't many "how to draw anime" books; practically nil, which was about 8 years ago. Now, with the passing of the DBZ phenomenon and the Pokemon Craze, they're have been an emerging anime market on drawing.

In case you do want to starting drawing anime, please don't buy these "how to draw anime" books, considering most are authored and illustrated by people that don't even watch "anime". By this I mean they have a very limited view of anime because they most likely only watched anime's such as Pokemon. They fail to realize that there are many different types of anime styles of drawing.

[lubczyk]

I'm not sure about actual anime, but the popularity in anime drawing is going up that's for sure.

Because I can definately tell you that the style of anime is going crazy in N. America. Ever went to a bookstore and went to the drawing section; you'll most likely find mountains of "How to Draw Anime" kind of books, most of which are authored by amateurs trying to make a cheap buck out of the whole anime craze.

I still think in N. America, people still see anime as childish. The more mature shows like Claymore are getting there, but still moderately low in popularity in comparison to other shows.

But I found a lot of people starting to draw the "anime" style. When DBZ first came out, there wasn't many "how to draw anime" books; practically nil, which was about 8 years ago. Now, with the passing of the DBZ phenomenon and the Pokemon Craze, they're have been an emerging anime market on drawing.

In case you do want to starting drawing anime, please don't buy these "how to draw anime" books, considering most are authored and illustrated by people that don't even watch "anime". By this I mean they have a very limited view of anime because they most likely only watched anime's such as Pokemon. They fail to realize that there are many different types of anime styles of drawing.

To tell you the truth, the proliferation of the Bishojo and Bishonen in and outside of Japan is really worrying me, and that included the "How to draw Anime" books. Why should people copy the anime style of drawing? Why can't people develop their own style? I just fear that big business will "globolize" anime and "standardize" the artsytle. so to be able to produce it more cheaply.

[petran79]

Anime became known to the world mainly thanks to the FTA broadcasters of the late 70s, 80s and 90s and also VHS tapes (either by rent or recording from the TV).

The majority of people during that time must have seen at least one anime series just like they must have seen a Disney movie. Regarding popularity I think anime too world wide must have been at its peak from the late 70s to the 90s.

I think the generation of that time (kids and adults) regarded Japanese series as something refreshing and new. It sure had something different from the Disney movies and American cartoons. This all depends of course in which country you lived. Still younger viewers can ask their parents or older anime fans about anime.


Regarding the newer series and anime popularity there are some differences:

Today to watch anime you'll need to have cable or satellite Pay TV mostly in exclusive anime broadcasters. This limits the audience and cant be compared with broadcasting series "for free" in main broadcasters as in the past.

Add also that the new series are much more different. You have so many themes while in the earlier series you knew what to expect. So another fragmentation.

Also watching anime subtitled would put many people of. Dubbed anime series had the advantage of adapting a Japanese series (excluding some kids or western novel adaptations) to the local viewers tastes. But with subs they will become even more incomprehensible to the uninitiated. While anime is serious it is not regarded as say foreign independent cinema to have subs.

Fansubs, manga, DVDs, well with the exception of Miyazaki's films not many would delve into this sort of thing. Fansubs are also for those familiar with technology. They're a kind of subculture too.

Another problem is that whereas in the past watching say 10 series on video and TV made kids and adults satisfied, now you'll need to watch 100 series or even more to be regarded that you are into anime! Talking about consumer culture.....

Active anime enthusiasts are rather people up in their 30s (mostly ages 20-25 though). This is why the older titles should not be ignored. They were responsible for introducing anime to many people of the previous generation even though they wouldnt bother to watch any anime or cartoon today.

Anime is maybe popular but this popularity (excluding Japan) can not reach that of the previous decades. Society and consumer culture changed. Now you have to pay more in order to watch TV, hence the reason why fansubs thrive.

[radioIzzy]

To tell you the truth, the proliferation of the Bishojo and Bishonen in and outside of Japan is really worrying me, and that included the "How to draw Anime" books. Why should people copy the anime style of drawing? Why can't people develop their own style? I just fear that big business will "globolize" anime and "standardize" the artsytle. so to be able to produce it more cheaply.


The thing is though, most children are attracted to the anime cartoons seeing as American made cartoons for CHILDREN are not the greatest things to look at.

American cartoons for children are unbearable to look at these days.
But at least it's their own "style", and I use "style" rather loosely.
The anime style is popular, it's starting to get "adopted" by everyone.

A good example I think would be Avatar: The Last Airbender.

[blewin]

The thing is though, most children are attracted to the anime cartoons seeing as American made cartoons for CHILDREN are not the greatest things to look at.

American cartoons for children are unbearable to look at these days.
But at least it's their own "style", and I use "style" rather loosely.
The anime style is popular, it's starting to get "adopted" by everyone.

A good example I think would be Avatar: The Last Airbender.

well, yeah, it is a style in a way, and I never do like its unrealistic aspects. The animation is just nowhere near as real and beautiful as animes'.

But I doubt "copying" would do much, not when we have Disney dominating the West's cartoons.

animes to me, seems to appeal more to older viewers and it's not just the style, but other things like deeper plots, better music etc.

[animeboy12]

Personally, I thought avatar was better than most anime series today, it felt stylized but at the same time very grounded.

With the apsect of anime looked at as "kiddy" it hold some truth in my opinion. Anime as a medium just doesn't have enough of the major groundbreaking hits and even when those ground breaking hits come (baccano, black lagoon, FLCL) there ignored for the ussually ecchi, harem, romance

[FatalMemory]

"The people who make anime and the people who watch it always want the same things. The creators have been making the same story for about 10 years; the viewers seem to be satisfied and there's no sense of urgency. There's no future in that." - a quote of Hideki Anno, from over 12 years ago, according to wikipedia at least.

So it's been bad for quite a while!

[lubczyk]

The thing is though, most children are attracted to the anime cartoons seeing as American made cartoons for CHILDREN are not the greatest things to look at.

American cartoons for children are unbearable to look at these days.
But at least it's their own "style", and I use "style" rather loosely.
The anime style is popular, it's starting to get "adopted" by everyone.

A good example I think would be Avatar: The Last Airbender.

You know the style that American series like:

Samurai Jack
Star Wars: Clone Wars
Dexter's Laboratory
et cetera

are all made cheaply using Adobe Aftereffects. It looks bloody awful. There's no depth perception, it really sucks.

It's not the content that I have a problem with, it's just I don't want anime to become like Hollywood where everyone in the world just starts making samey action movies.

I like Asterik & Obelix, La Linea, Prince Vladimir, I don't want the Bishojo and Bishonen artstyle (where boys and girls all have the same faces and bodies, just with different colors and harstyle a la Kanon, Gundam SEED, et cetera.

I really like Studio Ghibi works for them don't conform to this popular style.

Business just has a bad habit of overly conforming products to one or two different variants.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

You know the style that American series like:

Samurai Jack
Star Wars: Clone Wars
Dexter's Laboratory
et cetera

are all made cheaply using Adobe Aftereffects. It looks bloody awful. There's no depth perception, it really sucks.


How dare you insult the artwork of my idol Gendy Tartakovsky.:mad::heh:

Really though have you actually greatly analyzed the style of some of his shows, in particular Samurai Jack. He combined different animation and music styles to create something unique. It has an impressive style of its own, with its exciting action sequences, striking visuals and its odd combination of everything from traditional to modern to the bizarre. Sure the edgy graphics may look dull, but they are stylized very well. The process used to creat it is certainly above Adobe Aftereffects. Infact each episode has a slighty differentley tweaked animation style. Tartakovsky borrows from many artistic sources and I adore it.

The use of multiple angle and split screen shots adds alot. SO basically while it looks a bit edgy its very stylized and well animated.

[Irenicus]

are all made cheaply using Adobe Aftereffects. It looks bloody awful. There's no depth perception, it really sucks.
Minimalism =/ Adobe Aftereffects.

You are contradicting yourself quite well when you argue against Tartakovsky (the main creative force behind all of your three examples) and then praise Ghibli for its confidence in its own style.

Tartakovsky did just that. If other cartoons start imitating him -- and I've yet to see anything out of Cartoon Network that comes even close -- it's not his fault he's influential, no?

[Tri-ring]

How dare you insult the artwork of my idol Gendy Tartakovsky.:mad::heh:

Really though have you actually greatly analyzed the style of some of his shows, in particular Samurai Jack. He combined different animation and music styles to create something unique. It has an impressive style of its own, with its exciting action sequences, striking visuals and its odd combination of everything from traditional to modern to the bizarre. Sure the edgy graphics may look dull, but they are stylized very well. The process used to creat it is certainly above Adobe Aftereffects. Infact each episode has a slighty differentley tweaked animation style. Tartakovsky borrows from many artistic sources and I adore it.

The use of multiple angle and split screen shots adds alot. SO basically while it looks a bit edgy its very stylized and well animated.

Samurai Jack actually recycled a lot of old Japanese Chambara movie camera works and Kabuki theatrical effects.

[lubczyk]

How dare you insult the artwork of my idol Gendy Tartakovsky.:mad::heh:

Really though have you actually greatly analyzed the style of some of his shows, in particular Samurai Jack. He combined different animation and music styles to create something unique. It has an impressive style of its own, with its exciting action sequences, striking visuals and its odd combination of everything from traditional to modern to the bizarre. Sure the edgy graphics may look dull, but they are stylized very well. The process used to creat it is certainly above Adobe Aftereffects. Infact each episode has a slighty differentley tweaked animation style. Tartakovsky borrows from many artistic sources and I adore it.

The use of multiple angle and split screen shots adds alot. SO basically while it looks a bit edgy its very stylized and well animated.

I found the whole thing (watched like 4 seasons of it) one big, cheesy cliche. I found the characterization boring, the fights stale and the split screen shots gimmicky. I found the drawing style made it impossible to take the series seriously. Really, it felt like a bad Saturday morning cartoon.

The show is drawn in 4:3, yet it's attempt to add tension by giving a letterbox effect in some seems comes off as laughable. The show uses the idea tof limiting background music to try to make the series more dramatic. The problem is, the accompanying animation is not engagingly in the least. The show fails to create mood with its color palette; it just has the lighthearted atmosphere of a typical Saturday Morning Cartoon.

I think it panders to the same crowd that watches Saturday Morning Cartoons - The Least Common Denominator. I'm not saying a cartoon has to sex, blood or cursing ot be mature, but the story in this thing is nothing above that couldn't be found in a Warner Bros. Cartoon and done a whole lot better.

Compared to Disney and Warner Bors, Genndy Tartakovsky's toons are mediocre.

Pixar's The Incredibles alone has more depth than all 52 episodes of Samurai Jack.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Samurai Jack actually recycled a lot of old Japanese Chambara movie camera works and Kabuki theatrical effects.

Yes and it blended it with many other syles/elements and incorporated it into its own style. Like I said each episode seemed to follow a different influence.


Pixar's The Incredibles alone has more depth than all 52 episodes of Samurai Jack.

Since when does a show need deep characterization and story to be entertaining. Samurai Jack is supposed to be a straightforward action show, nothing more.

Samurai Jack is built on Cinematic storytelling and it excels at this very well, more than any show I've ever seen. Not too mention the action flows well and is beautifully coreographed. The little use of dialogue allows the imagery to tell the story/action taking place. And for me the imagery is amazing(I have a thing for the abstract and surreal). I especially like the use of different sizes of wide-screen to aid in the story-telling. A full-frame scene will shift to different ratios of widescreen to emphasize images such as a great distance between two characters or to focus on one's eyes.

For me Samurai Jack is something special and I'm a huge Gendy fan so my opinion will basically stand. For a last note I think people who think the best shows are those with deep involving storylines and characters are the best(Now I'm not labeling this is you lubczyk, just wan't to make that clear) need to perhaps give things a second thought. Sure it may be your preference, but labeling other shows that do not follow suit as being sub-par? There are plenty of shows that work very well for the medium they fit into.

[Elfia]

Here in Sweden anime/manga is geting more and more well known. They have even started competitions here where the winner get to puplicate his/her book in the stores. Also schools/libarys is geting more and more manga. In some shops you can buy anime but they are more common on the net.

[RayRay]

Nope. People and their status never change.

[The Wild Turkey]

Is the status of anime moving up in the world? it certainly is more widespread and known, but remains "somewhat kiddy" in typical Western world. I'm bringing this topic up because in Australia, we're actually teaching manga and anime materials in schools within English, rather than foreign language as in Japanese and Japanese culture. This is happening right now but unfortunately, after I've left high school. Anime texts can also be studied on HSC level (the exam you take to get into university). Some titles include:

Naruto, Twelve Kingdoms, Arjuna....

well, I'm sure there're others, but info is hard to come by as it's still quite a new concept here. Not many teachers are keen and knowledgeable enough to teach anime texts.

Wait, what? I know it's been over ten years since I did my HSC, but I hadn't heard anything about this? Surely this is only on a school, by school basis, as all HSC texts are?

[blewin]

Wait, what? I know it's been over ten years since I did my HSC, but I hadn't heard anything about this? Surely this is only on a school, by school basis, as all HSC texts are?

yes, I believe so. I've yet to hear of a particular school doing this, though English teachers at uni are saying this is happening. I still remember how they showed a page of Naruto manga in the lecture on comics and picture books. It's just.... um, well, quite a funny feeling.

but if picture books can make it into the syllabus (I don't recall ever doing picture books in my high school days), then why not anime? (or anything more bizarre in ten years' time!)

[Anisha93]

The situation is actually different here!

About 75% people think anime is for children and teens of even 12 should not watch it:confused:. If i tell anyone that i watch anime, i am considered immature and dumb .:uhoh:

But 20% think that its not suitable for children because of an issue that came in the newspaper. It ONLY stated ecchi and hentai and that animax should be banned. So many parents started stopping their kids to watch it.

Hardly 5% agree and give no restrictions(probably they don't care!:))

So the status is actually decreasing here.

[The Wild Turkey]

yes, I believe so. I've yet to hear of a particular school doing this, though English teachers at uni are saying this is happening. I still remember how they showed a page of Naruto manga in the lecture on comics and picture books. It's just.... um, well, quite a funny feeling.

but if picture books can make it into the syllabus (I don't recall ever doing picture books in my high school days), then why not anime? (or anything more bizarre in ten years' time!)

If only they'd introduced more popular texts into english when I was in high school as Tim Winton's books and Looking for Alibrandi never interested me, however I think it'll be a long time before anime and manga become an accepted part of the syllabus. I recall how people said the english syllabus was being dumbed down when they added Star Wars to the list, so you can just imagine what they'll say about anime.

[Vexx]

You're more likely to see anime/manga used in classes about visual media analysis or in cultural studies. Using it in *english* or in *literary studies* is less likely though I've seen such works as Gaiman's Sandman or the like used at times. Specific examples might sneak in over time.

The other example I can think of is if the class is exploring literary motifs across the world or story-telling in the manner Joseph Campbell analyzed in his various works.

I find the addition of "Star Wars" appalling because if you're referring to the first novel -- it was a hack job written after the film in the late 70s. Some of the books written in the Star Wars setting might be well written though.

[Endless Twilight]

The status of anime will never change, same with that of videogames and such.

Society has brainwashed people far too much for them to start thinking for themselves now.

[Vexx]

Most 20-something adults consider video games a normal part of life and quite a number of 30+yrs adults play regularly ... who is this "society" you speak of? :)

Yes, there's a *segment* of society that still doesn't accept videogames but I don't think they understand they're being left behind. And it isn't age-dependent ... it seems to be depend more on what kind of restrictive worldview they've put themselves into.

Anime will always be a bit of a niche entertainment in the US simply because it is "fur-rin". That will only change when it becomes routine for foreign subtitled films to play in regular cinema and such things do well financially.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

The status of anime will never change, same with that of videogames and such.

Society has brainwashed people far too much for them to start thinking for themselves now.


I wouldn't exactly say that. Videogames are prominent/widspread forms of entertainment. As Vexx said plenty of adults consider videogames a form of every day life.

Anime doesn't seize enough of a market to really be overly successful in the U.S, but there are still plenty of people who watch or at least have heard of it. Many people in the U.S. don't find it as something to invest a lot of their time in as they might do with videogames. Of course there are a great majority of people who don't even know of anime's existence and if they'd ever see one on TV would just think of it as another cartoon.

[Endless Twilight]

Most 20-something adults consider video games a normal part of life and quite a number of 30+yrs adults play regularly ... who is this "society" you speak of? :)

Well I don't live in the US, so that might just be it.

In my country at least, video games are still seen mostly as "toys" for young people.

[Vexx]

That's true... the answers will depend greatly on where you're standing on the planet. :)

[Amray]

Anime, or Japanese Animation, is indeed becoming a world-wide culture and pleasure with an ever growing presence. There are fans of anime in practically all countries of the world and, to be honest, I am not surprised as there have been a lot of recent productions that have caught the eyes of the masses and even won many awards. Death Note and The Girl WHo Leapt Through Time have achieved great levels of success here in England, for example.

[Kafriel]

I'm living in Greece, anime are just starting to gain popularity here, particularly Death Note, One Piece, Naruto and Bleach, but it will take another few years until:
A.they are actually aired on TV
B.they gain enough fans to buy their products
C.they become an object of discussion between people.

[kk2extreme]

anime is becoming more of an underground thing for the rest of the world. It is becoming more popular but not through liscencing companies, but bloggers, and fansubbers.

[Nochgo]

What do you mean by more of an underground thing? Where did you base your opinion on?

Back to the topic, I certainly think it is going down, here in US. It's been a very long time since I watched adult swim, but the only new thing that aired was Code Geass. Few years back, I remember Adult Swim's line up being more anime packed. And Toonami also gave some anime everyday as well. The only anime related material I encountered in school was watching the movie 'Akira' in my class. Though this was only because it was an japanese literature class.

[-HyugaNeji-]

If Anime/Manga as a genre wants to move up in the world, it has to leave specific japanese cultural references behind and focus more towards a worldwide audience.

Anime has to overcome two major handicaps. First, it is drawn, which translates to "Kids movie" in the general public. Second. It is overloaded with japanese cultural references, which makes it impossible for the normal moviegoer to really accept and apreciate.

The Myazaki films only got some attention because they were awarded and got their attention from that. Other then that: Try to ask people around if they know what Mononoke or Spirited away is. They won't know. Ask them what's Spiderman and everyone knows what you're talking about.

I mean, Spiderman, Transformers or X-men aren't any more "mature" then Movies like Akira or Mononoke, yet those films get no recognition by the general public.

BUT, and that's the main point. Is Anime even produced to "move up in the world"? Seriously, Anime is mainly produced for the Japanese market. The main audience are japaneses.

So it will always be a niche market outside of Japan and the general western public will never really accept and apreciate it.

And lets be honest. Anime may be known more then back in the day, but it's still not really accepted and apreciated by the GENERAL public. If you have an interview in Japan, i doubt that a manager would look at you in a weird way if you state that Anime or videogames are your hobbies. If you do that in a western company, you'll probably won't even talk about that part of your life, in fear of not beeing taken seriously. Anime and Manga is part of japanese culture, not of western culture.

[chikorita157]

For right now, not that much because people still think that it's still childish. The point is, although Anime is getting more accessible, it's still haven't proven that it can go mainstream due to a number of things like different cultural values. The problem is that Anime is main audience is Japanese, so for some people, it might not be suited for them. For now, I think it's still a niche and haven't grown out of that stage at this time, maybe later in the future...

[Shadow Kira01]

Definitely!!

The status of otaku culture has rised!

An obvious indication would be that tourism is being enhanced by anime characters, not mentioning that the sales of educational material has also been on the rise as soon as anime characters are introduced in it as tutorials.

Beer featuring Sengoku Basara characters, as well as Pizza Hunt introducing anime promotions tend to enjoy an increase of sales and a good reaping of profits.

However, I don't know if it has influenced the rest of the world or not..

[itisjustme]

Well last month I saw a few figurines from some obscure Type Moon game in my local hypermarket. And the lcd computer screens on display were screening fansubs of GTO ad Kenichi. Had me totally baffled.