Clannad ~After Story~ - Episode 08 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Klashikari

2008-11-20, 11:48

Welcome to the discussion thread for Clannad ~After Story~ , Episode 08.

Thread Guidelines

Raw requests and offers are not permitted anywhere on this forum.
Spoilers about future events must not be posted in this thread.
If you need to reference something that would spoil a future event, reply directly with a private message (http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?faq=vb_board_usage#faq_vb_pm_explain).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if it has not aired yet.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Please try to keep the discussion on topic.

Spoiler Policy

Any spoiler that reveals future events, even under a spoiler tag, will be deleted.
Spoiler tags should still be used where appropriate.
Adding a Spoiler tag:
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.global/spoiler.gifJust highlight your spoiler and click the button found
on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms.
Make sure that you include a title for the spoiler!
Please use the Report button if you see any spoilers:
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.style/default/buttons/report.gifClick the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar.
Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators
to locate and deal with problems quickly.
Posting prohibited spoilers will result in a ban.
Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.

New additional guideline for spoilers:
Anyone who posts spoilers that should not be posted outside of the spoiler thread will be granted a very special 1 day ban infraction.
Any repeated case will grant the usual "spoiler infraction" which will result into the 3 days ban.

Leon_Lelouch

2008-11-20, 12:26

fiuh.... ep 8 finished....
Yukine's brother's face never show up....-_-
and... Yukine arc finished

Klashikari

2008-11-20, 12:28

They really changed quite a bunch, and honestly, it is difficult to compare them whichever is better (anime version is climatic, game version is soothing).
I must admit they really did a good job with the brawl scenes (they didn't limit themselves with tge sunohara siblings route), it really make me wish they would continue FMP, but heh :heh:

and also: LOL crossover with Kanon! :heh::heh::heh:
I mean, every fans that have followed kanon before knew something should be overkill with Sanae's bread and Akiko Jam... well, KyoAni answered to that fanfiction dream and delivered a good laugh XD

That said, they really went nuts for this episode and wrap well Yukine's route, along with a proper tie with Misae's route as expected.

Orophin

2008-11-20, 14:53

and also: LOL crossover with Kanon! :heh::heh::heh:
I mean, every fans that have followed kanon before knew something should be overkill with Sanae's bread and Akiko Jam... well, KyoAni answered to that fanfiction dream and delivered a good laugh XD

Seriously?! I can't wait to watch this episode now. :heh:

Kaisos Erranon

2008-11-20, 16:45

Wait what?

...Badass.

harukamae

2008-11-20, 19:18

The Kanon crossover alone made this episode! :-)

I really liked Yukine's arc - she is really in the running to be my favorite female character.

The next episode looks interesting...

Myssa Rei

2008-11-20, 19:25

I felt giddy with the appearance of Akiko's jam. Does this mean that CLANNAD and KANON share a multiverse?. Add that to Sanae's bread and it's an instant KO, in ANY occassion.

It's also funny how they portrayed Nagisa's jealousy. Then again, given the source material, she shouldn't expect any less from someone with the Harem Lead syndrome...

Kaisos Erranon

2008-11-20, 19:50

I'd assume that all Key games are part of the same multiverse, given the similar supernatural happenings across them.

Probably a bit like the Nasuverse, with less crossovers.

Myssa Rei

2008-11-20, 20:20

I'd assume that all Key games are part of the same multiverse, given the similar supernatural happenings across them.

Probably a bit like the Nasuverse, with less crossovers.

Given the existence of the Illusionary World, I think it being a multiverse is a given... Maybe it would be better to term it a Cosmonology then? ;)

velocity7

2008-11-20, 21:47

The all-important jam makes its appearance! :O

IRJustman

2008-11-20, 21:51

The all-important jam makes its appearance! :O

The kind you can measure on a Geiger counter! Makes me wonder if she put some Pu-238 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium-238) in it to give it that wonderful glow!

--Ian.

Myssa Rei

2008-11-20, 21:53

Also:

Game vets shouldn't be surprised about the REAL truth behind 'Kazuto-Banchou' being Yukine (maybe we should just call her Yuki-nee from now on?) herself.

ShimatheKat

2008-11-20, 22:08

OH HELL! It's the glowing jam! WTF - Akiko IS making a profit on these jams after all! OH GEASS NO!

It's quite obvious that Yukine was lying about Kazuto being in hospital. I mean, from a CLANNAD vet's POV.

Given the existence of the Illusionary World, I think it being a multiverse is a given... Maybe it would be better to term it a Cosmonology then?
No, the Keyverse.

It's also funny how they portrayed Nagisa's jealousy. Then again, given the source material, she shouldn't expect any less from someone with the Harem Lead syndrome...
Had to LOL at that - or was Sunohara's spin more epic? No...

TOMOYO's entrance! Watch Sudo flee!

Given a 9. Didn't beat Misae's arc yet. Still almost there.

Kaisos Erranon

2008-11-20, 22:18

Also:

Game vets shouldn't be surprised about the REAL truth behind 'Kazuto-Banchou' being Yukine (maybe we should just call her Yuki-nee from now on?) herself.

Very little of this arc was actually in the game. They changed pretty much everything.

Although, no choice, really.

So, what's up next?

ShimatheKat

2008-11-20, 22:22

Very little of this arc was actually in the game. They changed pretty much everything.

Although, no choice, really.

So, what's up next?

I need someone to explain what was being said in the spoilers for ep 9. It's pretty confusing, actually... Please PM. Thanks in advance.

Myssa Rei

2008-11-20, 22:45

Very little of this arc was actually in the game. They changed pretty much everything.

Although, no choice, really.

So, what's up next?

Looks like its, egads, Kyou or Ryou up next. I was under the impression though we'd shift back to Nagisa.

Ottocycle

2008-11-20, 22:47

Looks like its, egads, Kyou or Ryou up next. I was under the impression though we'd shift back to Nagisa.
Why would it be? It's just a shot of the sisters. Not to mention we got a Kotomi + Tomoyo shot next for about the same amount of time.

If anything, the backshot of Tomoya walking alone gives more of the vibes of what's going to happen next.

ShimatheKat

2008-11-20, 22:52

Why would it be? It's just a shot of the sisters. Not to mention we got a Kotomi + Tomoyo shot next for about the same amount of time.

If anything, the backshot of Tomoya walking alone gives more of the vibes of what's going to happen next.

It's not going to be Kyou. Confirmed. She's only unsure on what to take in College and ask Tomoya for advice (not the best chioce, IMO)

Ottocycle

2008-11-20, 22:57

As for Kyou, she's already decided on her teacher route. (Ref: S1 ep16 or 17)

Nope. The spotlight is firmly on Tomoya himself, IMO. Maybe it'll extend to his father, maybe not. But since the topic of his future was brought up, he probably gets to know that he's not much better off than his best friend Sunohara, having thought next to nothing about it, except that he'd like Nagisa in, and his father out of it, currently.

ShimatheKat

2008-11-20, 23:01

@Above post, you need to remove that part about Ryou. The mods will not be happy about that.

As for Kyou, she's already decided on her teacher route. (Ref: S1 ep16 or 17)

Nope. The spotlight is firmly on Tomoya himself, IMO. Maybe it'll extend to his father, maybe not. But since the topic of his future was brought up, he probably gets to know that he's not much better off than his best friend Sunohara, having thought next to nothing about it, except that he'd like Nagisa in, and his father out of it, currently.

Not really. Go to the spoiler thread if you want to know more.

Proto

2008-11-20, 23:02

Not a bad episode by all means, and on a second watch and after considering various things it's actually quite decent, but I always rate the episodes on first impressions so...

GameMaster0000

2008-11-20, 23:23

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6523/bioweaponyu9.jpg

Totally different from game. But I think this is better impact than game version.

Beo

2008-11-20, 23:36

See that they are pulling in the heavy artillery from Kanon

Leo_Otaku

2008-11-20, 23:55

LMAO at Kanon reference. Almost perfect it should have been one more longer. I'm soglad second arcs get shown ^-^ *happy dance* now all there is is a certain guy >.>
The funeral scene should have been the most emotional, but the part where she dressed as her brother was amazing. But the funeral part fell short of the game

Joachim

2008-11-20, 23:56

ShimatheKat

2008-11-20, 23:58

man with those green and shiny bread colour... i wonder what will happen if i to put geiger counter next to it.. lol that bread and jam must be made of nuclear toxic

blech been playing too many fallout 3 lately

Shit. I knew the US had been hiding its nuclear reserves in Japan all along. IN THE FURUKAWA BAKERY!:heh:

Mecha_Trueno

2008-11-21, 00:02

I felt giddy with the appearance of Akiko's jam. Does this mean that CLANNAD and KANON share a multiverse?oh come on, its akiko-san jam! of course its power isn't limited to 'instant KO'... shifting between worlds/dimensions is a walk in the park for THAT jam!:D

Akiko IS making a profit on these jams after all! OH GEASS NO!lol i dont even think she's "selling" them... dont think anyone has mentioned, but nagisa DID say "she got it from a friend"... wonder what that means? nayuki, akiko, or does yuuichi's harem step beyond kanon world:heh: hell, i'd love to see akiko-san make an appearance:naughty:

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6523/bioweaponyu9.jpg... and tomoya KNOWS to retreat from it:http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1078/snapshot20081121042843sc6.png
... hence why he'd the only one who didnt eat it:heh: (does anyone else think his face here resembles sousuke?)

ShimatheKat

2008-11-21, 00:11

nagisa DID say "she got it from a friend"... wonder what that means?
Did she say FOC? Akiko MAY be selling the jam after all.

velocity7

2008-11-21, 00:42

oh come on, its akiko-san jam! of course its power isn't limited to 'instant KO'... shifting between worlds/dimensions is a walk in the park for THAT jam!:D
You know what, all you said just now must probably be true. Maybe it evolved into a new form and gained the ability to transcend time and space! :heh:

Kaisos Erranon

2008-11-21, 00:45

Kanon takes place in '99... Clannad in 2003... it's been 4 years, so I wonder if she's opened up some kind of chain or something.

ShimatheKat

2008-11-21, 00:46

Kanon takes place in '99... Clannad in 2003... it's been 4 years, so I wonder if she's opened up some kind of chain or something.

That's been my point.

Or, better still, multi-level-marketing!

mandarb916

2008-11-21, 00:51

ShimatheKat

2008-11-21, 01:02

Mecha_Trueno

2008-11-21, 01:30

Actually, the laugh point here was when Tomoyo entered the reference room, Sudo fled. Lolz
lol, sunohara has a friend who also shares the 'fear tomoyo' syndrome:D

irrelevance

2008-11-21, 01:34

really enjoyed this episode..ep8 was really weak imho, but ep9 was really well done with the exception of the timing between Kanon and reverting back to the actual story...

The gap between Enomoto's performance as Yukine between her school room and during the fight was stellar and very memorable. Atleast within Key based series, I'd rank it up there with Tamura Yukari's performance as Mai in Kanon post-hospital, after Sayuri was injured.

I think you meant ep7 and ep8 there:heh:

and is it just me or the whole bread&jam combo, albeit the humorous result, was used as a way to make Tomoya looks good? Can't help but to roll my eye when Tomoya stepped in, even though there's no other alternatives.

Some of the changes I liked, others not so much. Clannad still manages to make me laugh though.

yjs

2008-11-21, 06:06

In my opinion, this was the strongest After Story episode art, script and acting wise thus far. And with the 'proper' After Story starting next episode, I think we're in for a real treat compared to the relative disappointment that was the first 8 episodes.

ShimatheKat

2008-11-21, 06:18

Shiroth

2008-11-21, 06:47

Sanae's bread + Akiko's jam = the end of the universe. The jam appeared so random in this episode.

I liked this episode a lot more then last weeks. It didn't feel as silly as episode seven.

First scene was pretty cute, followed by Yukine doing the absolutly wonderful "Ahaha~". If you've forgotten where that came from, then shame on you. Tomoya's fight with the gangs leader went a bit over the top, though it was nicely animated. I had no problems with it. Also i had a feeling Yukine's brother was not around anymore, and that he died a while back. The scene by the grave was nice.

The ball of light that Yukine talked about that Tomoya can see, i guess she means the one that's also appeared in the other world story. At last we have a connection of sorts!

Next episode - time to prepare for your future Tomoya.

I think we're in for a real treat compared to the relative disappointment that was the first 8 episodes.
I haven't been disappointed with After Story at all, and if you are then i blame yourself for thinking that this show was just going to be Tomoya and Nagisa development from start until finish. :)

Ruhisu

2008-11-21, 08:11

Once again there was a great fight theme but the one thing which totally destroyed me was a combination of Sanae's bread and Akiko's jam.
I couldn't even thing in my worse nightmares that this kind of combination could be possible XD

blitz1/2

2008-11-21, 08:46

I was expecting tomoya to go all "graham/mr. bushido" on him.

zetsubou-san

2008-11-21, 09:10

Finally figured why Yukine's seiyuu sounded so familiar - it's the same VA who did Yukino (who incidentally is another Miyazawa) from Kare Kano.

Great episode, especially _the_ Jammu.

Myssa Rei

2008-11-21, 10:16

Now here's a thought. Yukine has, in a way, stopped the ongoing violence between the town's two rival gangs... Both gangs, mind you, look up to her in admiration and respect, affection even.

Though... Using the Yakuza comparison (my, how's THAT for jarring), it would seem like that Yukine's managed to gain indirect control of two rival mob houses, just by being in the good graces of both gangs. And by stopping the turf war, it's raised her even HIGHER in their eyes. Mmm, Yuki-nee, the undisputed Anee-ue of the City? Scary thought there.

Kristen

2008-11-21, 11:00

Oh... my... God... They did not just cross over the Akiko Jam with the Sanae bread, did they? I have not laughed that hard in... I don't know if I've ever laughed so hard. Maybe since School Rumble back in March? Any show that can make me laugh that much is an automatic 10. I'm still laughing just by thinking of it.

Well, leave it to Kyoani to take a fairly mediocre story line and make changes to make a special one. Like, I was hoping for the Yukine route, but I guess that was impossible, since it was pretty relationship heavy. I was one of the few people who liked Yukine's route in the game, so I guess I'm fairly alone in that. XD

I am happy that they did leave Miyazawa's brother dead. I was really afraid they would have had him in the hospital, and when I saw her dressed as her brother, it really did trick me and if that was really her brother, I probably would've cursed off kyoani there and then for changing the game so drastically.

I was going to down rate this for the changes from the game, but the Jam+Bread scene made this an automatic 10.

Vegard Aune

2008-11-21, 12:48

High points of this episode:
The Sanae's bread/Akiko's jam-combo is just as deadly as people thought it was.
Getting some clarification on what's the deal with the lights.

Preview:
Yay, my wish of the real story resuming came true... While the track "The Place Where Wishes Come True" played in the background.

I'll admit, the last episode was somewhat underwhelming, and I wasn't exactly glued to the screen during this one either, but it was still good, and the preview indicating that we're getting back to the main story makes it impossible for me to not call this an awesome episode...

Kinny Riddle

2008-11-21, 13:24

Oh my goodness, Sanae Bread AND Akiko Jam = Deadly Combo. LMAO

Easily the best Key crossover in-joke ever done so far.

I have nothing against the altered original story for Yukine, because let's face it, most of her scenario in the game took place in the reference room, which might work well for a visual novel, but it'll be darn boring in a visual medium.

I never knew Kazuto was the only person who could stand on his own against the legendary Tomoyo. Pity Tomoyo wasn't involved any further, or things will get interesting.

And finally, the very, very crucial light orb scene, and Yukine's subsequent explanation of the legend surrounding it.

According to Yukine, everytime when someone experienced happiness, light orbs (more than one?) appear to whoever can see them.

So far we have seen:

1. Fuuko (Season 1, when Fuuko took her first "class" with Sanae-san)
2. Kotomi (S1, Kotomi embracing her teddy)
3. Misae-san
4. Yukine

Perhaps I'll need to watch again, but I've not seen other light orbs so far apart from the above, probably because there was no point in exploiting this in S1 when they're going to wait till now to explain them. So expect to see more of these light orbs from now on.

Mmm, Yuki-nee, the undisputed Anee-ue of the City? Scary thought there.

Not if Tomoyo has anything to say about it. :cool:

A win-win situation is of course to have them both as Joint Delinquent Overlords of the city, since they're already on good terms with each other.

Romancing

2008-11-21, 13:26

This ep was beyond great. I enjoyed the arc. (: Next weeks episode is going to be even better! I love fridays once again.

Enjoyable episode.
Peace.

Mirrinus

2008-11-21, 14:39

I was going to post something about the portrayal of the gang rivalry and such, but honestly now, all I can think of right now is the bread + jam combination. I haven't laughed that hard in so long...

Ithekro

2008-11-21, 15:16

Ah yes the bread and jammu combo. Delivered by such a smiling face.
Rena would be proud.

Kaioshin Sama

2008-11-21, 15:29

I can't believe I got to see a story about gang warfare in a show such as this. I've gotta at least give it some points for originality and genre trailblazing which was my Key (pun not intended) gripe so far about this series. If altering the story is what it takes to get me interested in this series again (don't know how much was original and how much was from the game but meh) then I hope they take some more liberties in the time to come.

No auto-tens for me though I'm afraid. There's still lots of room for improvement in the comedy and the drama which I still find to be very over sold in a lot of cases. It's one thing to make one want to laugh or cry, but don't be quite so obvious about it, let it come naturally from the viewer themselves. There are also some other areas I feel could be improved, but those would have to wait for Kyoani's next series as they run fundamentally through the very core of the series audio/visual style.

Oh and I liked the lesson in how to do fanservice without having to resort to showing of the female characters skin.

Change of Pace

2008-11-21, 16:04

KYOANI PUMPS OUT KICKASS FIGHT SCENES <3!

Mnnnaaa ;___; I'm still so all over Tomaya and Sunohara's and now Okazaki's gang fight. <3333 THAT, imho, is pure eyecandy and/or fanservice xD Okazaki beaten up and battered is <3!

... I LOVED the episode so much; from the Kanon crossover to that delicious fight to the light orb explanation... so... awesome. The only thing that left me with raised eyebrows was the fact that Yukine was completely uninjured, with not even a scratch or a bruise after being SOCKED IN THE FACE by Sasaki. Whaaaat?!

Nerroth

2008-11-21, 16:21

I was expecting tomoya to go all "graham/mr. bushido" on him.

That, indeed, would be awesome.

Maybe someone will do a spoof where the brother's face is revealed to be Setsuna's? After all, Bushido-san doesn't go GAR when taking on your average opponent...

rainnydaiis

2008-11-21, 16:37

After a while of watching ep 7 over again. This episode seemed like it would do good, but after watching it, I could say it passed my expectations a bit. The ending to this episode gave it that whole "Clannad" tear-jerking feeling when you find out what happened to her brother and why she would do the things she did. Pretty sad to see this arc over so quickly but I guess there wasen't really much more to tell.

Next weeks episode looks pretty interesting as it seems to revolve around Okazaki once again.

Mecha_Trueno

2008-11-21, 16:42

Ah yes the bread and jammu combo. Delivered by such a smiling face.yup, that definitely added to the impact:D nagisa's innocent, happy, smile, casually holding THAT jam:heh:
hell, we didn't even need any confirmation lol. the viewer just sees that jar, and there it is... instant reaction: "akiko-san no jamu!!!"

Slackjack

2008-11-21, 20:10

I'm really pleased over the fact that they added the conversation on the lights, the lap-nap scene and made Yukine really cute for this episode - the anime version of the arc > game arc, in my opinion.
I wonder why they made Yukine's brother look like Sunohara though, when he was supposed to resemble Okazaki, in the game.

And of course...the jam was really the perfect bonus for this episode!

Myssa Rei

2008-11-21, 20:38

I still find it mildly ironic that the person least likely to hurt anyone has a bright future as a Mob Boss. Yes, Yuki-nee is fearsome.

arkxkra

2008-11-21, 22:16

good episode.
Lol at the special bread and that jam :heh:. Really is a ultimate combination.
So the Yukine arc is finish, not bad.
Look forward to next episode, look like is about time for Tomoya think about his future.

MeoTwister5

2008-11-21, 23:01

Thank god that they decided not to change the central idea of the story and left

Kazuto dead.

In the game it was revealed early, but here they left it until the end to keep the suspense and the tension up.

A very very nice rendition of the game arc. Didn't exactly live up to my personal expectations but was 90% there. I almost wanted to headdesk my face when Yukine got punched in the face.

And since it's the first official appearance of the light orbs and that "Tomoya is special", they'll have to go with "that" ending.

More importantly, episode 9 looks to be the episode where Tomoya makes his first important decision in AS. Ah...

kk2extreme

2008-11-22, 00:10

quick question,

how did kazuto died?

Phoenix_Cypher_K1

2008-11-22, 00:34

The whole rainbow bread + jam part was hilarious. And Nagisa still manages to smile and then be surprised at the aftermath of the whole thing. :D

Hao

2008-11-22, 03:18

Cool episode lol. Especially the with the sudden appearance of Akiko's jam. The gangsters are lucky to have survived that haha.

Wasn't expecting too much, but in the end it was resolved pretty good.

quick question,

how did kazuto died?

I believe it was in a car accident

LemonMunchies

2008-11-22, 04:51

oi... oh my gawd, i felt that punch as soon as yukine got hit... man.

Ascaloth

2008-11-22, 07:30

Episode 8 article is up:

[RIUVA] CLANNAD ~After Story~, Episode 8 (http://www.riuva.com/?p=1312)

Nagisa's earned an Achievement Award! In any case, 8/10 for the Yukine arc.

SuperKnuckles

2008-11-22, 07:56

Definitely not my favorite arc at all. The aspect of the punks and Yukine materializing out of thin air just gets me, even IF this is Key anime we're talking about, where fox-girls come from heaven.

That said, the fight itself was way better than I was expecting (COUNTTERRRRR UPPERCUT!) and it looks like there's a real bridge to Okazaki's future as a punk. :heh:

I do feel for Yukine, but I don't know how far a single episode explanation will really cut it. I think even for Key standards, this one was a bit sudden for an arc.

And oh yeah, the mysterious balls of miracle-light. I BELIEVE.

Deathkillz

2008-11-22, 08:45

^ On the otherhand, I felt that this arc hit me more emotionally than the previous arcs...and I actually think that it was a better (more touching) story than Misae's story of love.

Even though I pretty much guessed that Yukine's brother has already passed away, the entire scene where she was crying her eyes out must have did something seen as by that time it felt as if a rock has landed on top of me. I think the scene worked though it might not have for everyone.

This was a simple but quite an effective arc imo.

typhonsentra

2008-11-22, 10:44

Am I the only one who thinks they overuse the whole "Relative/Important Character is actually dead" plot device way too much? By the time the revelation finally came that he's been dead all along I barely cared as I predicted it near the beginning of the previous episode.

ShimatheKat

2008-11-22, 10:50

Am I the only one who think they overuse the whole "Relative/Important Character is actually dead" plot device way too much? By the time the revelation finally came that he's been dead all along I barely cared as I predicted it near the beginning of the previous episode.

Well, this is what CLANNAD is about, huh? Family members relaising the importance of family after another member dies, I guess.

Even Tomoya had to learn it the hard way in the end. In the game at least.

Aizu

2008-11-22, 11:47

Well, rather good episode and ending is directly from the game. Thanks for the joke that included Kanon. Nothing to say more here really. Btw, looks like that next episode will be a filler one.

8 out of 10 : Very Good.

germanturkey

2008-11-22, 12:57

Akiko jam + sanae bread = win. i don't know why, but i was saddened by the revelation at the end of this ep. maybe i have a hormone imbalance this early in the morning..

Klashikari

2008-11-22, 14:24

ThoHell

2008-11-22, 14:28

Good episode. Tomoya is rather though! Opening was rather odd. Super bread is devastating as always. And poor Yukine got punched directly in the face....

alex253320

2008-11-22, 14:30

Something interesting: it looked like tomoya received more damage from the battle vs sunohara than from this battle even though this one was way longer and he was getting wasted

Aizu

2008-11-22, 14:35

How a Tomoya-driven episode related completely to AS (real one) would be a filler? This episode isn't still related to AS because the original school arc ends with the event of...

Klashikari

2008-11-22, 14:38

This episode isn't still related to AS because the original school arc ends with the event of...
You can have a complete displacement of events considering how it isn't necessary to pack everything with "that" event.
Furthermore, if we have something like Komura's, that wouldn't be a filler considering how it IS a big factor for Tomoya later in AS.
Any develpment related to Tomoya is required, or it will look OOC once AS starts properly.

Aizu

2008-11-22, 14:43

Klashikari, check your pm. Komura doesn't matter.

Xvoki

2008-11-22, 15:27

9/10 which is as high as a go with any anime until something spectacular comes along.

Solafighter

2008-11-22, 15:37

LOL The jam!

Very cool crossover from Kanon. :heh:

Reckoner

2008-11-22, 15:41

It was a good arc, a very significant improvement from the last arc which was quite terrible in my opinion. I give it a 8.5/10. A generous rating.

kk2extreme

2008-11-22, 18:53

10/10 for the deadly jam and bread combo :D

Beo

2008-11-22, 20:47

Interesting that no one commented on bring in Taiga.

Furukawa Pan being right next to Sudohbucks after all.

Cloudkiller1

2008-11-22, 20:49

Gave it a 9/10. I'm quite impressed by this episode. The fight scene was awesome. I haven't watch Kanon(so what?) so I didn't quite get the reference but it was... quite interesting to see the results of the so called nightmare bread.

Looking from the previews we are slowly getting into the actual meat of the AS section now..

Farplaner

2008-11-22, 20:55

Now that I finally watched ep 8, anyone felt like they borrowed the fight scenes from Tomoyo After in this episode? :o

Sorrow-K

2008-11-22, 21:46

The story was essentially decent, but I thought this episode was plagued with execution problems that are uncharacteristic of KyoAni. Everything just seemed to lack polish, there were jarring scene transitions, uneven pacing, an overuse of the music and a general propensity for "telling" rather than "showing" (why did we need to be told that Yukine ran away from the fight to get her brother, couldn't they have shown that?). And then this, which, let's face it, looks like ass:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4599/snapshot20081123120900jq4.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20081123120900jq4.jpg)
Holy crap, it looks like someone multicolour vomited onto Photoshop.

I had the same "where are they going with this, and hurry up and get there" feeling during the first half of this ep that I had during the last ep, and I think it's because Clannad isn't really all that well equipped to be dealing with drama surrounding gang warfare. For one, the gang members themselves are pretty simplistic. We're told over and over again by Yukine that they're essentially good people that are victims of circumstance or whatever, but we're never really shown this rather than told, certainly not at any individual level for any one of the gang members (there's never really any moment where any of the gang members isn't either in a group or exists as someone more than "random gang member X".) But there was something really awkward about how Clannad approached the whole gang mentality, almost as if it went out of its way to be forgiving of these people and trying to paint them as people who have absolutely no control of what happens in their lives, and completely out of their depth in the world. It's kinda hard to scrutinize the decisions these gang members were making because they weren't making decisions at all, and just pretty much going along with the flow.

I realize the central conflict in this arc wasn't about the gangs themselves, but more about Yukine dealing with them and trying to spark a major shift in their behaviour, but it's nowhere near as effective as it could have been if the gang members were just there and so underdeveloped as they were here. It kinda dilutes any attempt to make a commentary on the nature of urban gang warfare as I think they were trying to do here.

So yeah, I think the essential plotline was reasonable, but the execution dragged down the drama. Lots of little things could have been changed but I really think they could have taken the time to develop the gangs and told the story better in the same amount of time, since there were long stretches in this arc that were pretty pointless (such as Yukine sleeping).

I just wasn't completely impressed with that.

Mecha_Trueno

2008-11-22, 22:00

Interesting that no one commented on bring in Taiga.

Furukawa Pan being right next to Sudohbucks after all.i did... back in the old thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2026675#post2026675). (im sure someone mentioned it before though)

zzeroparticle

2008-11-22, 23:52

Hmmm... could have been better and could have been worse. My biggest issue with it is how screwed up some of the gang members' logic was. Granted, they act more like people driven by passion than reality, but when the solutions available are so obvious, it's hard to believe that an all-out brawl is the optimal solution. You'd think they'd at least have good-faith negotiations than what was displayed.

That's not to say that this episode didn't have its moments. The high point of this arc was when Yukine opted to step in and take the hit herself, and the whole veil was lifted, the truth revealed. That particular scene managed to move me mostly because her belief in ending it was strong enough to make her step in and intervene which was generally inspirational and laudable.

So the story leading up to this might have been generally poor, and though I wouldn't say it managed to redeem itself, the way it ended was satisfactory.

therationalpi

2008-11-23, 02:00

I really enjoyed the Yukine arc. They changed it very significantly from the visual novel, but I think it had a much better impact for an animated medium. There's only so much you can get out of sitting in the reference room for three episodes. However, in true Key-oani style, they tried to include some of the most memorable scenes from the visual novel into the show. That is to say, they tried to include the lap pillow and Sunohara walking on it. However, I think that with Nagisa there, the humor of that scene is kind of lost, it's clear that there is nothing too serious going on between Tomoya and Yukine, so Sunohara's reaction ("AT HOOOOOOOOME") falls flat. In the novel though, that scene actually made me fall out of my chair laughing.

I would like to point out that the bread and jam scene had another reference that no one has mentioned. Nagisa passes along that Akio says "Omae ni Rainbow!" or, "Rainbow to you!" Well, that's the name of the radio show attached to Clannad that is hosted by Nagisa and Sanae. So, that scene had yet ANOTHER awesome in-joke. That was fan-service of a level that hot spring episodes can only dream of achieving.

Ottocycle

2008-11-23, 02:15

I would like to point out that the bread and jam scene had another reference that no one has mentioned. Nagisa passes along that Akio says "Omae ni Rainbow!" or, "Rainbow to you!" Well, that's the name of the radio show attached to Clannad that is hosted by Nagisa and Sanae. So, that scene had yet ANOTHER awesome in-joke. That was fan-service of a level that hot spring episodes can only dream of achieving.
Just to point out, I believe that catchphrase had appeared in the game, and was faithfully reproduced at the beginning of S1 episode 20, IIRC. There are even more incarnations of it to come. :p

MeoTwister5

2008-11-23, 09:40

As much as I wanted to see Yukine, I'm thankful that it's more or less time for the real story of AS...

Dop

2008-11-23, 14:59

When Nagisa brought out the special jam to go on the rainbow bread, I just rolled with laughter. It's something we've all speculated about, but to actually do it in the series was inspired!

cbatty

2008-11-23, 16:08

Gave this one a 10/10 for the rofl moment... ahh - I needed a really good laugh!

I also liked the story and how they wrapped it up after last week. Tomoya really has fantastic stamina surviving blow after blow all that time...

So would Yukine now claim the title of "Godmother" in the town after bringing the two opposing factions together ;)

kk2extreme

2008-11-23, 22:54

ShimatheKat

2008-11-23, 23:59

When Nagisa brought out the special jam to go on the rainbow bread, I just rolled with laughter. It's something we've all speculated about, but to actually do it in the series was inspired!

Well, I believe that it was thought out looooong ago! I think it was a leak...

http://cdimg1.crunchyroll.com/i/spire3/08072008/8/e/6/a/8e6a7f8eb8cd70_full.jpg

How else did we get this?

Kaisos Erranon

2008-11-24, 00:54

...

Just...

...That was fanart. It originated as speculation on Derailed by Darry, at least in the English fandom, and I'm sure that the Japanese fandom thought it up too...

It's just typical KyoAni fanservice...

...It's not some "leak"...

stewie0814

2008-11-24, 03:44

ShimatheKat

2008-11-24, 05:17

Well, I'm certainly glad this arc is over. This was, in my opinion, the 2nd worst arc, (fuuko arc being the most horrible one), while these, uhm, dont know if we can call these arcs "fillers", are relatively fun to watch, I don't think they add much substance to the show, so I don't view them with much enthusiasm.

I just hope we move on to the meat and potatoes of the series already :(

Oh well. CLANNAD fans are usually split into two camps, the

"we like Fuuko, KATsuki, and this arc"
and the
"we hate the above arcs".

Well, I hated Fuuko, but liked EVERY single bit of After Story so far. Well, oh well.

cbatty

2008-11-24, 06:45

Oh well. CLANNAD fans are usually split into two camps, the

"we like Fuuko, KATsuki, and this arc"
and the
"we hate the above arcs".

Well, I hated Fuuko, but liked EVERY single bit of After Story so far. Well, oh well.

I guess I am the exception that proves the rule... I like all the above arcs... mind you, I come to this anime without any prior experience of the game, so each episode is a new adventure as I don't have anything to compare it with. I have learned a little more about the characters, as each story arc unfolds. Even if the main story isn't progressed in leaps and bounds, the little steps are enjoyable to watch also.

I also really enjoy the forum discussions too - thank you all :)

C.A.

2008-11-24, 08:43

And then this, which, let's face it, looks like ass:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4599/snapshot20081123120900jq4.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20081123120900jq4.jpg)
Holy crap, it looks like someone multicolour vomited onto Photoshop.It does look exactly like what you described and that's the exact essence of this injoke. We all know how incredibly potent that mix of strangelets is and how big of a bad news it is. They've already reduced it, I would have expected a 3D cg glob of rainbow if I knew they would mix the bun and jam together.

Its either you don't know what the joke is about or that you don't have much sense of humour. Or it could just be pure nitpicking off nothing.

ShimatheKat

2008-11-24, 10:17

It does look exactly like what you described and that's the exact essence of this injoke. We all know how incredibly potent that mix of strangelets is and how big of a bad news it is. They've already reduced it, I would have expected a 3D cg glob of rainbow if I knew they would mix the bun and jam together.

Its either you don't know what the joke is about or that you don't have much sense of humour. Or it could just be pure nitpicking off nothing.

I think he was being sarcastic.
Oh hey, C.A. I didn't you were into CLANNAD too!

destiny4everlove

2008-11-24, 10:35

Episode 8

-Nagisa offering Tomoya’s lap so that Yukine could have some sleep was so cute!!http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi00.gif I love how Nagisa is always so caring and nice!!! :)

-Nagisa being a little jealous was so adorable!!! :blush:

-LOL! :heh: I understand why Yuu would be scared, but even Soduo-san is scared of Tomoyo now!! :heehee:

-It seems Sasaki likes Yukine, poor Sunohara, Sasaki is a really tough rival to beat for Yukine’s heart. :upset:

-Sunohara never changes! Even when he is in deep trouble we can’t stop bragging.

-ROFL!! http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi6l.gif Hyper Rainbow Bread!!! Sanae’s bread + Akiko’s jam = a hilariously deadly creation/ weapon!!! :D “The ultimate combination” indeed Nagisa-chan. :heh:

-Seeing Tomoya getting beat to a pulp was so painful. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi04.gif At one time I was mentally screaming “Stop, please stop!!!”http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi32.gif And Nagisa crying just added salt to the wound. :( Poor Tomoya!!! Poor Nagisa!! http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi04.gif

-For Tomoya to have lasted the way he did against Sasaki was very impressive.

-The fighting scene between Yukine against Sasaki was so hearbreaking. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi04.gif

-So Yukine’s brother was dead! :twitch: That was a sad surprise!!! :(

-The scene at Kazuto’s grave was so touching!! http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi32.gif

-The light floating in the sky has increased my hope for something I truly want to see during this season in Clannad :)

-So that was what the lights were, they were symbols of happiness and could grant you one wish.

-Sunohara trying to kiss Yukine was priceless!! :heh:

-I’m sad we didn’t get to see Kazuto’s face, but I loved this episode anyway. :nod:

-I so miss the dango ending. :(

Kaisos Erranon

2008-11-24, 15:06

Well, I'm certainly glad this arc is over. This was, in my opinion, the 2nd worst arc, (fuuko arc being the most horrible one), while these, uhm, dont know if we can call these arcs "fillers", are relatively fun to watch, I don't think they add much substance to the show, so I don't view them with much enthusiasm.

I just hope we move on to the meat and potatoes of the series already :(

I feel the same way. These arcs were fine in the game, but this story is about NAGISA, dammit, and we need to keep it going on that path.

C.A.

2008-11-24, 15:32

I think he was being sarcastic.
Oh hey, C.A. I didn't you were into CLANNAD too!Wait are you trying to demonstrate some form of sarcasm as well? lol

I was the first one who replied to your first post on this forum in the episode 6 thread.

Sarcasm is harder to detect on the internets for one thing.

Kaisos Erranon

2008-11-24, 15:38

And then there's the problem when people confuse sarcasm and verbal irony.

Kaioshin Sama

2008-11-24, 16:50

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4599/snapshot20081123120900jq4.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20081123120900jq4.jpg)
Holy crap, it looks like someone multicolour vomited onto Photoshop.

Well that's easy that's....ummmmmmmm that's supposed to be it's.....uhhhh.....you got me. :heh:

Speaking of colour filters, I still tend to find that they oversaturate the lighting in a lot of scenes in this show for no real reason other than because. In other words a lot of the scenes continue to be dominated by the colour orange, which I suppose isn't a problem for most, but when your eyes are extra sensitive to bright colours like mine are.....well....it sometimes give me a headache watching this show. I really wish they'd ease up just a touch.

Sorrow-K

2008-11-24, 18:56

Well that's easy that's....ummmmmmmm that's supposed to be it's.....uhhhh.....you got me. :heh:

Speaking of colour filters, I still tend to find that they oversaturate the lighting in a lot of scenes in this show for no real reason other than because. In other words a lot of the scenes continue to be dominated by the colour orange, which I suppose isn't a problem for most, but when your eyes are extra sensitive to bright colours like mine are.....well....it sometimes give me a headache watching this show. I really wish they'd ease up just a touch.
I've no problem with the general overuse of bloom because it's something of a signature for KyoAni. It's an artistic style that identifies them. But the shining multicoloured bread. Ugh. It was reminiscent of a cheap special effect used in those old Where's Wally animations that the show actually MST3K'd itself over.
It does look exactly like what you described and that's the exact essence of this injoke. We all know how incredibly potent that mix of strangelets is and how big of a bad news it is. They've already reduced it, I would have expected a 3D cg glob of rainbow if I knew they would mix the bun and jam together.

Its either you don't know what the joke is about or that you don't have much sense of humour. Or it could just be pure nitpicking off nothing.
I'm not big on people second guessing my opinions. When I'm nitpicking, I'll tell you I'm nitpicking. In actually, I thought most of the art and animation in this episode was well below par for KyoAni, that screen was just the worst offender. If it was supposed to be a joke, then I didn't find it very funny.

I'm not going to praise every piece of crap that comes out of the KyoAni machine. Sometimes they do stuff that isn't up to scratch, and that's the case with a lot of things in this ep, both animation and storytelling-wise. I call it as I see it, irregardless of what studio it comes from, and I hate hate hate being second guessed about that.

Mecha_Trueno

2008-11-24, 20:14

Well, I believe that it was thought out looooong ago! I think it was a leak...

http://cdimg1.crunchyroll.com/i/spire3/08072008/8/e/6/a/8e6a7f8eb8cd70_full.jpg

How else did we get this?

this made me LOL
... although i'm pretty sure nayuki will NEVER speak like that... "yamero!":heh:

Myssa Rei

2008-11-24, 20:24

If it was supposed to be a joke, then I didn't find it very funny.

It's an in-joke, so of course not everyone will find it funny. Par for course. ;)

People have noted the slight drop in quality of the animation, but it's only noticeable if you slow down the show and watch it FRAME BY FRAME -- Hinano in particular absolutely unleashed her patented fangirl rage because it. We've lost some of the soft lines that we had in the first season as well.

The fight scene was the worst offender, but really, who notices something like that when it essentially goes by 24+ frames per second? A casual watcher would miss it, certainly, and I had to double-check myself when Hinano unleashed her vitriol.

Still, there's much to look forward to, as the preview suggests we're heading into the REAL After Story proper, what with Tomoya wondering about his future and all.

Myssa Rei

2008-11-24, 20:42

I feel the same way. These arcs were fine in the game, but this story is about NAGISA, dammit, and we need to keep it going on that path.

I think it's obvious, but I do prefer to think that we're simply just saying goodbye to the characters who will be lucky to be even MENTIONED when After Story hits its stride.

Sorrow-K

2008-11-24, 21:12

People have noted the slight drop in quality of the animation, but it's only noticeable if you slow down the show and watch it FRAME BY FRAME -- Hinano in particular absolutely unleashed her patented fangirl rage because it. We've lost some of the soft lines that we had in the first season as well.

The fight scene was the worst offender, but really, who notices something like that when it essentially goes by 24+ frames per second? A casual watcher would miss it, certainly, and I had to double-check myself when Hinano unleashed her vitriol.
Hinano is sharp as a tack. Very little gets by her. It wouldn't surprise me if she noticed the drop in quality watching it live.

But it's not unnoticeable when you see it live. I sure noticed that there was a drop the first time I watched it, but I didn't realize the extent until I saw Hinano's screenshot. But it's clearly not up to KyoAni's usual standard. Polished art and animation is one of the big things that they've forged their reputation on, which is why it tends to stick out when they drop the ball as they did here. A lot of the time, particularly in action series, anime-makers will flip a coin between good-looking art and fluent animation and compromise one to achieve the latter. That's not a compromise that one typically associates with KyoAni, even in the few action scenes they do. Take the Yuki v Asakura fight in Haruhi. It flows very well when watching it live, and you could probably pick just about any frame at random as a good looking screenshot. It's obviously unreasonable to expect everything KyoAni makes to reach that standard, but they've set their own bar and reached it consistently in the past, so it's not surprising that people rightfully are disappointed when they fall so short of it as they did in this instance (and it's happened a few times in After Story, not just this ep).

Nonetheless, anime tends to be 8 frames per second anyway, not 24. And my personal preference is that, if you have to choose between good art and fluent animation, choose the former. Anime isn't naturally equipped for fluent animation, the framerate being part of the reason.

Kaioshin Sama

2008-11-24, 21:47

I've no problem with the general overuse of bloom because it's something of a signature for KyoAni.

Yes......I've noticed.

Nonetheless, anime tends to be 8 frames per second anyway, not 24. And my personal preference is that, if you have to choose between good art and fluent animation, choose the former. Anime isn't naturally equipped for fluent animation, the framerate being part of the reason.

Seconded. I think almost anyone would take consistency over fluidity though. At least I hope. :uhoh:

That's one of the main reasons Macross Frontier was such a hard watch for me, because it had all of the fluidity in it's animation that you could ever ask for in a 25 episodes series, but some of the worst consistency in frame-by-frame animation I've ever seen.

Ascaloth

2008-11-25, 00:39

As hard as it is to say this, I do have to agree with Sorrow-K and Hinano here; the artistic quality certainly has gone down in this episode. It's just such a huge drop for KyoAni from their Haruhi and Kanon '06 peak; I'm starting to wonder if the studio is beginning to miss the perfectionist tendencies that Yamakan is purported to have.

C.A.

2008-11-25, 02:02

I'm not big on people second guessing my opinions. When I'm nitpicking, I'll tell you I'm nitpicking. In actually, I thought most of the art and animation in this episode was well below par for KyoAni, that screen was just the worst offender. If it was supposed to be a joke, then I didn't find it very funny.

I'm not going to praise every piece of crap that comes out of the KyoAni machine. Sometimes they do stuff that isn't up to scratch, and that's the case with a lot of things in this ep, both animation and storytelling-wise. I call it as I see it, irregardless of what studio it comes from, and I hate hate hate being second guessed about that.Praise? I'm don't even like touching the topic of kyoani's quality in thread discussions, people are touchy about that.

I even agreed with you that the scene 'looks like ass'. Drop in quality of the episode? Yes even I can see that, but that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about agreeing with you that it looks like ass, but why I think it looks like that is different from how you looked at it. I'm telling you, that particular scene which you picked out of the show and with a screenshot, is supposed to look that bad. They made shit look like shit, is there anything wrong with it? That rainbow is not supposed to look beautiful and attractive, its supposed to look disgusting and poisonous.

Which you, who admitted not finding the joke funny, either because you didn't catch the injoke, or that you have lesser sense of humour compared to us, some who even gave the episode a 10 just because of that scene. I'm putting this either, or situation and if neither of the above, you could be nitpicking. Are you saying that I would know that you hate people who guess your opinions or that you don't like people to guess whether you're nitpicking or not. I learnt about you like how you are going to learn from me now, as I'm telling you I don't read anime blogs. You know about me as much as I know about you, which is nothing. I don't agree with the bad cookie you left me as well.

I'm here telling you why that particular scene looks so bad and why you seem to be pointing out at something that's of all the bad in this episode, shouldn't be picked on.

What happened to the individual rights of opinions and such. They say opinions can't be wrong and such, but why do people still argue over opinions.

Myssa Rei

2008-11-25, 03:21

Daniel E.

2008-11-25, 03:30

C.A.

2008-11-25, 03:34

I guess I'm just stupid trying to explain that shit is supposed to look like shit.

Sorrow-K

2008-11-25, 04:41

Which you, who admitted not finding the joke funny, either because you didn't catch the injoke, or that you have lesser sense of humour compared to us, some who even gave the episode a 10 just because of that scene. I'm putting this either, or situation and if neither of the above, you could be nitpicking. Are you saying that I would know that you hate people who guess your opinions or that you don't like people to guess whether you're nitpicking or not. I learnt about you like how you are going to learn from me now, as I'm telling you I don't read anime blogs. You know about me as much as I know about you, which is nothing. I don't agree with the bad cookie you left me as well.

I'm here telling you why that particular scene looks so bad and why you seem to be pointing out at something that's of all the bad in this episode, shouldn't be picked on.

What happened to the individual rights of opinions and such. They say opinions can't be wrong and such, but why do people still argue over opinions.
First, I didn't neg rep you, so why don't you learn some manners before you start wrongly accusing people of such things. Also, consider yourself reported for violating Rule 4.4 (http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?faq=rules#faq_rules_4_4) of the Forum Rules.

Secondly, I get the joke. It's a reference to Akiko's jam from Kanon. I just didn't find it all that funny. It's not the first time KyoAni have cross-referenced their works in other anime, and it probably won't be the last. But, for whatever reason, I didn't find it funny this time. In part, because it was fairly predictable, and in part because it was an attempted joke that was then used as a serious plot device. So, while it was light-hearted, it's impact on the plot was heavy, which pretty much put it at the middle of a jarring mood transition. I really don't appreciate being told I have a "lesser" sense of humour because I didn't laugh at a fairly ho-hum reference, and certainly not because other people apparently gave the episode a "10" because of it. Not when I strongly think that "10" ratings are given out way too readily on these forums as it is.

And I'm not trying to suggest that I expect you to know that I don't like people second-guessing my opinion because I may have possibly expressed that preference in the past in some obscure corner of the internet. I expect you to know that I don't like people second-guessing my opinion because it's basic internet etiquette. It's basically a veiled way of trying to imply that I'm a troll, and that I'm not posting what I really think. I basically forge my internet reputation on my opinions, which people are free to disagree with, but when people try to dismiss them as dishonest, that's a pretty big insult.

And, as far as your last point is concerned, you're kidding yourself if you think opinions can't be wrong. Of course they can, that's why they need to be discussed. That's not to suggest that two people with conflicting opinions can't both be right, but an opinion of itself isn't impervious to reality, which is why opinions aren't treated as credible until they're backed up with facts or evidence. But reasonable people with different opinions can have discussions about things. I'm certainly not trying to force my own opinion on other people, I'm simply stating it. Some people will agree, some won't. I'm fine with that, it could potentially lead to an interesting discussion. But it really grinds my bacon when people try to second-guess how genuine I'm being.

And, to come back to the point we started at, even if the shining bread was intentionally made to look bad, there are better ways they could have presented it than dropping a blob of multicoloured ink on a frame and then processing the crap out of it in Photoshop.

Loc

2008-11-25, 05:10

In my opinion, the style is unique and definitly pretty. Some may state, that Clannad is overflowing with colors, blooms, shading, etc.. But I think that it is just up-to-date to make the design more plastic. Hard to watch at first for the oldschool-lovers, but not bad.

C.A.

2008-11-25, 05:25

First, I didn't neg rep you, so why don't you learn some manners before you start wrongly accusing people of such things. Also, consider yourself reported for violating Rule 4.4 (http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?faq=rules#faq_rules_4_4) of the Forum Rules.

And I'm not trying to suggest that I expect you to know that I don't like people second-guessing my opinion because I may have possibly expressed that preference in the past in some obscure corner of the internet. I expect you to know that I don't like people second-guessing my opinion because it's basic internet etiquette. It's basically a veiled way of trying to imply that I'm a troll, and that I'm not posting what I really think. I basically forge my internet reputation on my opinions, which people are free to disagree with, but when people try to dismiss them as dishonest, that's a pretty big insult.

And, as far as your last point is concerned, you're kidding yourself if you think opinions can't be wrong. Of course they can, that's why they need to be discussed. That's not to suggest that two people with conflicting opinions can't both be right, but an opinion of itself isn't impervious to reality, which is why opinions aren't treated as credible until they're backed up with facts or evidence. But reasonable people with different opinions can have discussions about things. I'm certainly not trying to force my own opinion on other people, I'm simply stating it. Some people will agree, some won't. I'm fine with that, it could potentially lead to an interesting discussion. But it really grinds my bacon when people try to second-guess how genuine I'm being.Well, firstly I'm already stupid and don't want to carry on the argument, especially after this post of yours. I'm just here to clear up misunderstandings or anything else that needs to be made clear.

Its not that I care about rep, its about the comment that came along with what I recieved.

The reason why I'm talking about you not understanding me like how I don't understand yours is because of the comment that came with the bad cookie. While I was the only person arguing with you and the cookie came with the post that you quoted and is speaking as if it was from you. If I sounded like I had bad manners, then the comment is the reason for why I sounded bad, and why I even wanted to post a reply.

If people actually had an idea about internet manners, they could at least leave their name with their rep comments.

About opinions, I'm just trying to comfirm that opinions can be wrong. Which is my argument over at the Gundam subforums, where bunches of people are going around stating their opinions which are wrong, sticking with their rights and not accepting any other opinions against them.

Anyway, the argument here would be very different if I know that it wasn't you, I was basically replying to the comment and it seems that you have nothing to do with it.

konstargirl

2008-11-25, 07:22

Oh the episode almost had me cry especially when yukine was crying and that her brother died.

Very good episode. :3

Myssa Rei

2008-11-25, 07:37

Sorrow-K and C.A.: Please continue your dispute through PMs, as the tone of your posts are getting somewhat personal.

Though if you want to argue about the absolute horror that is the Furukawa Rainbow Bread and Akiko Jam combination (and how it wouldn't be out of place in Fallout 3), then feel free to continue. ;)

Kaioshin Sama

2008-11-26, 01:44

Neutral corner people.

Remember, in situations like this, humor is relative; what might be funny to some could be completely unhumorous to others. Also, it's important to point out in that scene the humor was mostly enhanced by the Key reference.

Personally, I'd be HORRIFIED to be presented with unnaturally-glowing bread and ominously radioactive golden jam.

Neutral......corner? To me neutral is in the centre of the ring throwing light jabs in every direction while occasionally ducking to let the two real combatants punch each others lights out, but I've always wondered about what hanging out in the corner might be like. I think I'll join you there in a moment :p

Though I too think it's safe to say that Kyoani got a little bit extra carried away with the light filters in this particular episode. To the corner!

musume_no_hoshi

2008-11-26, 18:30

Sometimes I find it very difficult to chose from 1)amazing animation in the important episodes and not-so-nice animation with the 'filler' episodes or 2) consistant animation so every episode only have so-and-so animation. It's definately a disapointment in KyoAni, I also looked at the frames during the fight scene, frame by frame, the one that hinano picked out just happened to be the worst one, the other frames look quite decent to me ^_^'' Maybe the economic crysis is even affecting KyoAni, could be because the sponsers couldn't sponser as much now? During Haruhi and Kanon's year, to my knowledge the economics was very good and blooming.

Did I enjoy this episode? Yes, very much. As much as the fight scene have the worst frames I ever seen from KyoAni, this was again one of the most amazing fight scenes I ever seen, I found myself going ouch at every punch.

The colour filters is like the signature of KyoAni. When I watched Kannagi's first episode, first scene, the colour filters reminded me of KyoAni, it also had the amazing animation quality of KyoAni too. Then I found out the director was the first director of Lucky Star, and found out why. I never found the filters overused, it gives the animation a less of a flat look.

We're all just too spoit with pretty animation that KyoAni always gives us. If I have seen Clannad without seeing any other KyoAni's anime, I would still be amazed at the animation ;P Like how I was SO amazed at AIR's animation.

phishn37

2008-11-26, 19:30

Just finished 8... uhhhh...
I feel like this show gets stupider and stupider. All of the plots are based on dumb misunderstandings and no one just stands up and says what's REALLY going on. There's been so many times I want to just insert myself into the show and scream "Sunohara is NOT Kuzuto-san!! Mei-chan is NOT going out with Tomoya!!"
If this keeps going on like this, I'm giving up on After Story. It's a real disappointment from the first series, which had creative stories.

C.A.

2008-11-26, 20:31

Sometimes I find it very difficult to chose from 1)amazing animation in the important episodes and not-so-nice animation with the 'filler' episodes or 2) consistant animation so every episode only have so-and-so animation. It's definately a disapointment in KyoAni, I also looked at the frames during the fight scene, frame by frame, the one that hinano picked out just happened to be the worst one, the other frames look quite decent to me ^_^'' Maybe the economic crysis is even affecting KyoAni, could be because the sponsers couldn't sponser as much now? During Haruhi and Kanon's year, to my knowledge the economics was very good and blooming.

Did I enjoy this episode? Yes, very much. As much as the fight scene have the worst frames I ever seen from KyoAni, this was again one of the most amazing fight scenes I ever seen, I found myself going ouch at every punch.When it comes to saving budget, its always fighting scenes that gets it.

I've always thought Kyoani learnt a bunch of tricks, really good ones, from Gainax. Gainax is the master of budget saving, they make things look smooth and fast using very little frames. Everyone's favourite Super Inazuma Kick, one Gunbuster cel over one space monster back ground cel and lightning/explosion graphics.

Fighting scenes don't suffer much when they get the frame cut, if you animate well, they will look fast and have impact. Like what you see in this episode.Just finished 8... uhhhh...
I feel like this show gets stupider and stupider. All of the plots are based on dumb misunderstandings and no one just stands up and says what's REALLY going on. There's been so many times I want to just insert myself into the show and scream "Sunohara is NOT Kuzuto-san!! Mei-chan is NOT going out with Tomoya!!"
If this keeps going on like this, I'm giving up on After Story. It's a real disappointment from the first series, which had creative stories.Well, this are just the side dishes before the main dish. Of course you can leave before the main dish comes, the rest of us can have more portions for ourselves.

Shinigami_Mello

2008-11-26, 20:58

I'll just say one thing, just wait till the main story starts.
I was starting to get annoyed with them, as much as I loved their arcs in the game, but now it's over and the main story should start now. The reason this season's called the After Story : 3
If you're not impressed then, well, nothing I can say D:

Proto

2008-11-26, 21:22

Yeah, we kind of expected that non gamers would get a little impatient with these side arcs episodes. Fear not, your patience should be rewarded within the next weeks :)

Eisdrache

2008-11-26, 23:53

Reckoner

2008-11-27, 00:34

If this keeps going on like this, I'm giving up on After Story. It's a real disappointment from the first series, which had creative stories.

On the contrary I find these AS arcs better than the previous season (Granted I don't hold Clannad as highly as others, it's really not that good). Fuuko almost made me drop the series because it was just that bad.

Leo_Otaku

2008-11-27, 00:47

My lord can you people keep bitching to a minimun unless you eally know what you are talking about.
The seconary arcs are some of the most powerful. If anyone were to drop the series now, well go ahead and see what you will be missing.

Proto

2008-11-27, 01:26

Hmm... you can't expect everyone to like the show though, and it's within everyone's right to express what they don't like about the show. It's a real shame when people don't enjoy something that you took great interest in, but such is life, variability in tastes is what makes art good.

That said, I'd recommend the people who are wondering about dropping the series to just stomach a few episodes more. CLANNAD is called the best KEY has ever done because of what is to come. (not immediately though, so don't get your hopes up yet :p)

Daniel E.

2008-11-27, 02:04

Hmm... you can't expect everyone to like the show though, and it's within everyone's right to express what they don't like about the show.

This! :bow:

Because of the next episode preview, I am also quite hopeful for what it is to come! :)

ShimatheKat

2008-11-27, 06:27

And in a few hours, the main story will be beginning... and I won't be watching it until the day after, when I fly off to Okinawa. My friend there will be recording it for me.

RandomFlameStrike

2008-11-27, 07:33

I swear if Tomoya had won that fight I would have dropped Clannad in a second.

As for the episode:

Yukine <3333333333333333333333333333333 I cant make enough <3 for her. That lap pillow scene was so sweet. In the first season we didnt see that much of Yukine but those two episodes made up for that.

There is just one thing that bothers me .......

F*** GO DIE TOMOYA. Since School Days (Makoto Itou) there has NEVER been a character that has annoyed me more. He was an eyesore in the siblings arc, he was a pest in the Yukine arc. When he went DONT YOU GET IT, TO STOP YOU GUYS FIGHTING!! he ruined that previously excellent moment in a second.

I admit that I hate Tomoya.

There is one thing I really cant stand in anime and thats when a character suddenly makes a 180 degree character change, goes all emotional and wants to protect the happiness of EVERYONE IN EVERY EPISODE. He or she then goes WHAT YOU DO IS BAD AND WE ARE GOOD CANT YOU SEE IT????? No, because it cant always go the way you like it.

There are several types that can vary from each other, but the most annoying type is the one who yells at everyone before doing anything else. And why not punch the other party too or throw some insults at them. Tomoya happens to be exactly that type of person.

You get it.

Whoa that's a very diffrent take. I have some bais but I think Tomoya's the best "harem" (If you can still call Clannad that lol.) lead since forever. He's TONS better then your average loser and has more personality then Yuuichi who is just LOL fix everygirls problems. In terms of likeablity I have him next to Kyou (which is very high). Hm I don't seem to get what you mean by "yelling at everyone before doing anything else". Tomoya's a pretty understanding guy, he plays a lot of pranks but he doesn't have any bad intentions. In the scene you mentioned in this ep it didn't seem as if Tomoya was wrong. Afterall it was Sasaki and his gang who insisted in fighting to save face. They had a misunderstanding and thought Sunohara was Kazuto, then they attacked. The attack resulted in both parties getting injured but no real victory. At that point it really didn't matter if Sunohara really was Kazuto or not since both gangs would insist on fighting untill a clear victory emerged.
During the siblings arc his pranks went out of hand I admit, but Sunohara was also at fault. The whole thing escalted because the two friends trusted eachother too much XD. Sunohara thought Tomoya would give up on him and get Mei out of there, but Tomoya thought Sunohara was definatly going to come rescue Mei asap. He blew up and attacked Sunohara I admit, but it wasn't w/o justification. And he understands his mistake afterwards.
There is ONE moment where he does blow up first in a way you describe, but it turns out he was right. Then later he realizes his mistake and makes up for it. Tomoya's a far cry from that bastard insensitive fucker Makoto. Also he doesn't give anyone false hope and is commited to Nagisa.

phishn37

2008-11-27, 12:53

Oh, so there's a main story that hasn't started yet?
Hmm... maybe I'll stick around. It better be good.

Klashikari

2008-11-27, 13:43

I admit that I hate Tomoya.

There is one thing I really cant stand in anime and thats when a character suddenly makes a 180 degree character change, goes all emotional and wants to protect the happiness of EVERYONE IN EVERY EPISODE. He or she then goes WHAT YOU DO IS BAD AND WE ARE GOOD CANT YOU SEE IT????? No, because it cant always go the way you like it.

There are several types that can vary from each other, but the most annoying type is the one who yells at everyone before doing anything else. And why not punch the other party too or throw some insults at them. Tomoya happens to be exactly that type of person.

You get it.

For starters, he never got a 180° change. Ever since he met Nagisa he gradually get close with people, though first from a teasing/joking way, into a friend/devoted attitude.
I wonder: is that really surprising or worthy of a complete personality change to care about people, especially if they are more or less close to them?
it isn't the way "HE" like it, but trying so it would be the way "THEY" (the persons he help) like it.

And if you remember what he has done before, Tomoya is the PROACTIVE type: he does what he can do, when he should. He did NOT butt in Yukine's business, since he is a outsider that should not worsen the situations. However, the given situation couldn't be left loose like this and he intervened, even if it isn't how Yukine wanted. It is the same reason how he had to interven on Mei's behalf when her approach wasn't affecting Youhei at all.
In both case, Tomoya intervene in order to stall the situation. If he didn't, things would have turn very sour. Why?
In yukine's arc, Sasaki's gang would overwhelm Sudou, Tajima and the rest, things would escalate to terrible brawl until the police barge in. That would have been game over for the Miyazawa siblings' wish.
In mei and youhei's arc, if tomoya didn't play the fake boyfriend, it wouldn't have stirred concern in Youhei. Worse, if he didn't know, Mei would have been bullied by the soccer club members, and there was no guarantee that Tomoya could handle all of them alone. And if he wasn't there at all, Mei would have been some ball replacement by now.

His methods aren't always the best, but his decisions were always for the welfare of that person, regardless of the consequences for himself (here, the wounds etc).

He is considerated enough towards people so that he doesn't interfer much, but should it be too much, the decision belongs to him, if he should act.
I wonder: do people have to leave others in their corner so their porblem would be fixed? I really can't see that a service to let... let's say yukine doing her kazuto impersonation and ending into a wretch, as Sasaki is completely clueless to her act.

I have difficult time to understand how you can compare a teasing yet reliable male character to SD Makoto, who is borderline a nature mistake.

RandomFlameStrike

2008-11-27, 15:03

Klashikari summed it up pretty well. One of the few things I didn't like about Yuuichi was the his "I'ma solve everyone's problems" attitude that popped our of nowhere. It wasn't that bad (compared to other leads) but it was a bit wierd. For Tomoya you can see the development and his motivations to help the people he helps. For example he first became intrested in Nagisa since her view was so diffrent from his that he couldn't help but become curious. Then as he got closer to her he was slowly changing. Tomoya wouldn't have bothered with Fuuko at all if it wasn't for Nagisa (I think this is true for the game too, in order to get on Fuuko's path you have to get a bunch of Nagisa flags). Kotomi was more arbitary, but it was still a result of development from the previous arc. Then he helped Tomoyo mainly for Nagisa's sake. Of course he would try to fix Sunohara in that situtation, I mean despite the things he does to Sunohara he is still his best friend. If Tomoya from the start of ep 1 met Yukine and got involved with the gang wars, I highly doubt he would step up to help her so much.

kyon.haruhi.suzumiya

2008-11-30, 09:05

Not really. Go to the spoiler thread if you want to know more.
She has already decided. It's Tomoya that can't decide. HE goes to Kyou to talk about it.

Pefectly wonderful episode, as always. Yukine touches my heart. Still, Haruhi and Kyon kissing is still tops. Anyway, anyhow. A great episode focusing on a great character.

Klashikari summed it up pretty well. One of the few things I didn't like about Yuuichi was the his "I'ma solve everyone's problems" attitude that popped our of nowhere. It wasn't that bad (compared to other leads) but it was a bit wierd. For Tomoya you can see the development and his motivations to help the people he helps. For example he first became intrested in Nagisa since her view was so diffrent from his that he couldn't help but become curious. Then as he got closer to her he was slowly changing. Tomoya wouldn't have bothered with Fuuko at all if it wasn't for Nagisa (I think this is true for the game too, in order to get on Fuuko's path you have to get a bunch of Nagisa flags). Kotomi was more arbitary, but it was still a result of development from the previous arc. Then he helped Tomoyo mainly for Nagisa's sake. Of course he would try to fix Sunohara in that situtation, I mean despite the things he does to Sunohara he is still his best friend. If Tomoya from the start of ep 1 met Yukine and got involved with the gang wars, I highly doubt he would step up to help her so much.

Change takes time, and CLANNAD is showing it bit by bit to us. That's the whole idea.