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confuzionrains
2003-11-11, 17:02
I'm trying to find out if these birds actually exist in China? Does anyone know?

Are these birds based on real birds that exist or existed in China, or are they some type of fantasy creatures? If they are somewhat of a fantasy creature, what is the closest existing animal that they were based on? Are they actually vultures, or some form of eagles (eat carrion vs. live prey)? If they are based on real birds, are they now extinct?

Esperchld
2003-11-11, 17:17
well, I don't know about condors in this show, but there really is a large bird called a condor. They are VERY large vultures that live in the higher mountains of California, and the high Andes Mountains. They are nearly extinct. Their plummage is grey to white.

LynnieS
2003-11-11, 17:25
In the afterwords of the novel, the author said that the giant condor (and there was only one BTW) was something that he had made up. From the drawings in my version of the book, the bird is drawn as being man-sized and flightless.

Shenlong
2003-11-11, 18:48
I was under the impression that condors only live in ther Americas, but I do know that the there are alot of eagles, hawks, vultures and other birds of prey in mongolia and northern china where Condor Hero seems to take place

eMpTy265
2003-11-11, 19:21
Well... in terms of whether condors exist: Yes they do.


Only thing: The translation 'condor heroes' is incorrect.


The 'condor' in Condor Heroes is actually 'shen diao', it's supposed to be like a condor, but doesn't actually exist in real life.


Basically what it is in the anime / chinese novel, is a LARGE bird, which is about the size of human.

It stands upright, and believe it or not it 'know's martial arts.

(FYI, the bird was a long-time companion of a legendary swordsman 'the sword demon'.... and later the bird 'teaches' Youka how to use the heavy sword he has... [how heavy was it? 81kg?])

Colonel-
2003-11-11, 21:37
I saw the tv series of Condor Hero, isn't his sword that he chose made of solid stone or something?

Aquillion
2003-11-12, 06:12
Er, no spoilers, kthx... those are spoilers, right? I couldn't tell, but I assume the anime will follow the same plot, and I assume you're talking about stuff that's yet to happen in that plot.

LynnieS
2003-11-12, 11:21
Aquillion - No, these are spoilers for the novel, and not the anime.

The anime only goes up to the first half of the novel. The remaining half with the sword and condor was never made.

Colonel - I think that the heavy sword is made of meteorite iron, but Youka stopped using it once his skills grew beyond it.

confuzionrains
2003-11-13, 01:59
I was really hoping that they actually exist - you would think that some parts of China would be an ideal habitat for condors/giant eagles... that's why I thought they might have been real, but became extinct (as most large animals seem to have disappeared from China as time passed)

also, in the anime, the Condor size seems somewhat inconsistent, as you have the opening with the main characters riding on the condors, or big enough to attack ribakshyu, and then you have some cels with the condor being the size of a medium hawk on Youka's uncle's arm....

LynnieS
2003-11-13, 11:20
The bird (birds actually) that belongs to Youka's uncle is a pet, and not the same one that "trained" Youka. I think that it's a falcon?

LynnieS
2003-11-13, 20:12
The Small One - It actually isn't teaching in the traditional sense. Rather than demonstrating and getting Youka to learn the moves, it's teaching by fighting with him and trying to get Youka to be stronger through, among other tactics, tossing him into a flooding river and into the oceans. On the plus side, as soon as Youka can't handle the attack, it stops.

Edit - I keep getting the white text... :p

Don Eunuch
2003-11-14, 02:40
But shouldn't Youka be good enough already?

Youka was not up to the level of the five greats. even after the condor's training.

Spoiler:
Though at the end he caught up and he is made one of the new five greats, replacing his godfather "Western Poison" as "Western Crazy"

kenny333
2004-01-06, 13:32
Aquillion - No, these are spoilers for the novel, and not the anime.

The anime only goes up to the first half of the novel. The remaining half with the sword and condor was never made.

Colonel - I think that the heavy sword is made of meteorite iron, but Youka stopped using it once his skills grew beyond it.

Right, he started using a wooden sword after that. It's insane that the novel says his wooden sword became more powerful than the 75kg sword he has....

LynnieS
2004-01-06, 17:09
It's not heavy your weapon is, but how well you use it.

And don't anyone go into the gutters here... ;)

lavarock
2004-01-07, 03:18
Right, he started using a wooden sword after that. It's insane that the novel says his wooden sword became more powerful than the 75kg sword he has....


It's not insane.
He only get to the level of 5 greats after the Condor, which the name of the book is from taught him the style of... the person who's name is "looking for defeat". He died already, but in his age, he use the abslute best Kongfu in China. (That era he lived in is believed to be same as HuangShang, who created the style Youka's uncle learned). The person's name meant that he is always looking to be defeated, but never happened in his life. He uses sword. His style matured as he changed sword. At first he uses a regular sword, then that extremly heavy sword Youka used later, then a wooden sword, then as he said, he finally understood the ultimate:" no sword is better than sword" (sound like there is no spoon heh:D). Therefore in his last part of life, he has achieved the best kongfu ambit of his life, which is using no sword at all, everything can be a sword.
Now Youka have only obtained the second last ambit, which is disregarded the heavy iron sword in favor of the wooden sword in the end of the book. Will he achieve the "no sword" ambit? no one can tell. Maybe.

lavarock
2004-01-07, 03:21
I'm trying to find out if these birds actually exist in China? Does anyone know?

Are these birds based on real birds that exist or existed in China, or are they some type of fantasy creatures? If they are somewhat of a fantasy creature, what is the closest existing animal that they were based on? Are they actually vultures, or some form of eagles (eat carrion vs. live prey)? If they are based on real birds, are they now extinct?

The condor supposedly live in Northen Mongolia region of China. They are the largest of their species. Do they still exist nowadays? I do not know.
However the condors in both books are imaginary. You can't have condor big enough to carry people, nor can you have it learn Kongfu...

LynnieS
2004-01-07, 07:49
...

His style matured as he changed sword. At first he uses a regular sword, then that extremly heavy sword Youka used later, then a wooden sword, then as he said, he finally understood the ultimate:" no sword is better than sword" (sound like there is no spoon heh:D). Therefore in his last part of life, he has achieved the best kongfu ambit of his life, which is using no sword at all, everything can be a sword.
Now Youka have only obtained the second last ambit, which is disregarded the heavy iron sword in favor of the wooden sword in the end of the book. Will he achieve the "no sword" ambit? no one can tell. Maybe.
You're basically getting into heavy philosophical areas here. A wooden sword is still a sword and if you believe it, has the "spirit", or chi, of the sword. That chi is what is supposedly used when you reach a certain level of mastery over the weapon to kill someone over a great distance by, essentially, merging yourself with the sword and using it to fly. The next level is, I think, the control of one's own chi to control that of objects that are not weapons, or turning a branch, flower petals, and such into ways to incapacitate and kill your opponent.

I think that is what they meant?
Re the condor, no, the author had explicitly mentioned, in my copy of the book anyway, that he made it up.

daimonth
2004-01-07, 12:29
You're basically getting into heavy philosophical areas here. A wooden sword is still a sword and if you believe it, has the "spirit", or chi, of the sword. That chi is what is supposedly used when you reach a certain level of mastery over the weapon to kill someone over a great distance by, essentially, merging yourself with the sword and using it to fly. The next level is, I think, the control of one's own chi to control that of objects that are not weapons, or turning a branch, flower petals, and such into ways to incapacitate and kill your opponent.

I think that is what they meant?
Re the condor, no, the author had explicitly mentioned, in my copy of the book anyway, that he made it up.

The reason why the wooden sword is on a level better than the heavy sword is that while the heavy sword is powerful, it is restrictive on the technique you can use on it. With wooden sword you are less restrictive in the style you use, yet the big draw back is that 1) the sword itself is weak, 2) to hurt others you need tremendous amount of Chi/innerstrength. Thus the main focus of his training with the wooden sword is focused on increasing his chi as well as not putting too much stress into the sword. If you look closely at this progression then you'll realize that the eventually progression towards the 'no sword' is to break ones reliance on the sword. To achieve the level where he is not restricted by the sword and to defeat his opponents without the sword. (If you look at another of the authors book, the 'laughing wanderer' I believe as it is called in english it mentioned something close to it.) At that stage anything can be a weapon, hand, feet, clothing, branch and leaf....

The condor he has with him, the black one is indeed a made up creature. If I remember correctly the author stated in his notes that although he based it on a species of real bird, it was still mostly made up. The white condors are suppose to be real, although I think he exagerated in saying that they are large enough to carry people.

kenny333
2004-01-07, 12:49
It's not insane.
He only get to the level of 5 greats after the Condor, which the name of the book is from taught him the style of... the person who's name is "looking for defeat". He died already, but in his age, he use the abslute best Kongfu in China. (That era he lived in is believed to be same as HuangShang, who created the style Youka's uncle learned). The person's name meant that he is always looking to be defeated, but never happened in his life. He uses sword. His style matured as he changed sword. At first he uses a regular sword, then that extremly heavy sword Youka used later, then a wooden sword, then as he said, he finally understood the ultimate:" no sword is better than sword" (sound like there is no spoon heh:D). Therefore in his last part of life, he has achieved the best kongfu ambit of his life, which is using no sword at all, everything can be a sword.
Now Youka have only obtained the second last ambit, which is disregarded the heavy iron sword in favor of the wooden sword in the end of the book. Will he achieve the "no sword" ambit? no one can tell. Maybe.



Well, if people can fly in the novels using "light techniques", I guess anything is possible. But still, if you consider Youka only has one arm and he uses only a wooden sword and he is brought up as a beggar, I guess that's why I like him the most in the Jing Yong's novels because he kicks so much azz with so little hahahaha. I think he is also the only main character that made his own special moves - the 17 move "Sadness Souless Palm"- azzkicking! All other main characters in Jing Yong novels like Gou Jing, Zhang Mou Chi, Yuen Shing Chi etc. learnt all their moves from somewhere. I guess you can say the guy in the "laughing wanderer" - Ling Wou Chong made his own moves with his sister-classmate, "Chong - Ling sword", but that's just child's play. (They made it up when they are children when fooling around).

daimonth
2004-01-07, 14:26
Well, if people can fly in the novels using "light techniques", I guess anything is possible. But still, if you consider Youka only has one arm and he uses only a wooden sword and he is brought up as a beggar, I guess that's why I like him the most in the Jing Yong's novels because he kicks so much azz with so little hahahaha. I think he is also the only main character that made his own special moves - the 17 move "Sadness Souless Palm"- azzkicking! All other main characters in Jing Yong novels like Gou Jing, Zhang Mou Chi, Yuen Shing Chi etc. learnt all their moves from somewhere. I guess you can say the guy in the "laughing wanderer" - Ling Wou Chong made his own moves with his sister-classmate, "Chong - Ling sword", but that's just child's play. (They made it up when they are children when fooling around).


They don't fly though, they just jump further than normal people...Technically when Ling Wou Chong uses Dou Gu Jiu Jien he is making up techniques as well..Dou gu Jiu Jien is not a technique in and of itself but more like a guide that inspires and teaches people how to make up techiques. Fong Chin Yong said that the more he fights the more he will learn about it and develop his own interpretation of the style.

lavarock
2004-01-07, 17:35
Well Some points that I don't agree that are mentioned in the previous posts.
The author never described people to fly with the sword. Some other books by other people have martial artirsts that do that, but that's more fantasy IMO.
Sword techniques and Chi are very different things and styles. It's generally believed that Chi users use much less technique and therefore at a higher level than Sword techniques (that's the reason why people believe that in Jin's book, Kongfu has downgraded throughout history). In the book where Ling Wou Chong is the main character, there was a very heated (and bloody) debate over which is better, Chi or Sword, and Chi won for that incident. However, throughout the years, people paid more empathsis to Sword techniques and techniques of other weapons other than Chi (which is harder to master).
The reason why main character don't come up with orginal techniques is becoz all the ones that do come up them are either not the main character for historical reasons or too powerful already in their era. They are mostly undefeated in their era therefore not much story and drama can be written about them.
Also you can not fly with Light techniques, the most benefit of light techniques is that you can run faster, jump higher, and leave less footprints (therefore be light).

LynnieS
2004-01-07, 17:48
To be brutally honest, I don't agree with much of the techniques described in most (all?) of the books that I've read, regardless of authors. You're correct in that a certain amount of... creative make-believe has gone into the writings; given that the authors of this genre are in the entertainment business, that's to be expected. I'm not about to debate, however, the existence of chi in the real world - let alone whether or not it's possible to develop such techniques in practice! :)

I read these books for entertainment and to pass the time. If I have to fight, I tend to cheat since I'm out to win. Code Duello? Never heard of the thing...

ky_khor
2004-02-11, 10:05
is there a lot of translate version of "condor heros" novel rather than chinese?

i have 14 set of title from Mr.Jing Yung. who is the author of the "condor heroes"

my fav is "condor heroes" and "pre condor heroes" which focus on youka's uncle and 5 great.