View Full Version : Toradora! - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll
Pellissier
2009-01-14, 07:18
Welcome to the discussion thread for Toradora!, Episode 15.
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Well, since we're really starting out on the portion of the novels I, for one, am totally unfamiliar with, I hope for the best. This series has been constantly great so far, I wish for it to keep the pace up.
Maybe we'll get some clarification on Kitamura's biz with Sumire?
Peanutbutter
2009-01-14, 10:07
Looking forward to new OP and new ED. :D
typhonsentra
2009-01-14, 10:16
Are we sure it's going to premiere this episode? I remember someone saying it'd be 14 and that didn't happen.
Well, if anything, it's coming up sometime... :D
TwinRivers
2009-01-14, 11:09
14 seemed like the prelude to the whole kitamura arc, kinda set the stage for all the madness that is to come.
wistfulloner
2009-01-14, 11:44
I'm really hoping for more twists from the norm, in in this case, the novel. Loved how they elegantly put the spin-off and storyline in one episode; hope it continues to surprise us that way, even if it really is gonna follow that Kitamura dilemma.
maxpepper
2009-01-14, 12:49
no new op and ed yet :mad:
Great episode yet again. Ya-chan is awesome.
They cut out some Ami scenes and it seems pretty (too much imo) fast paced. Now I gotta wait for the subs -_-
I suspect the new OP/ED will pop up at the end of this arc (or prior to the final arc).
wistfulloner
2009-01-14, 14:08
Sadly, no new OP and ED. Production issues, perhaps?
Rather than being fast-paced or rushed, I felt it downplayed some of the feelings instead, like Ami's haughtiness and Ryuji's anger from the novel. I was hoping for more Ami, so I can see her take on the conflict. But in the purely anime standpoint, it was a good episode, and the thoughts and emotions were conveyed well enough. Oh, and Taiga was at her cutest this episode; especially heart how she cried for the second time for the entire series.
A cut-and paste of the original novel storyline, but trimmed neatly to remove the unnecessary and to bring out the main theme. Excellence.
Deathscyther
2009-01-14, 15:09
Can only give this episode a 7/10.
The episode was enjoyable, but they changed some of the best parts of this novel. And not in a good way to be honest. :/
Anyways, I still liked the episode and found Taiga very cute at times:)
Ryuuji just doesn't understand Ami at all, instead completely misunderstands her. He still doesn't even know or see the real Ami.......AHHHHHHHHHHHH show needs more Ami! Ryuuji is boring already, give us something new!
Reaper-flora
2009-01-14, 17:52
All i can say is: Loved it, Like all others :)
typhonsentra
2009-01-14, 19:41
This has gotta be some kind of record, they covered more than 4 chapters of material in a single episode! At least they worked in most of the important scenes in one way or another, I was getting worried they might cut the scarf scene which would be a tragedy. Ami really got the shaft though, she was completely cut from the baseball cage scene and they cut down her argument with Sumire drastically. I guess the last episode was kind of the writers throwing her VA a bone for the lack of scenes with her in this arc.
Darknemo2000
2009-01-14, 20:19
typhonsentra, no the record was still ZnT II season last episode where the covered a full book within less than two minutes. Nothing can beat that.
But they really cut a lot of things out, and most of them involving Ami...
Master Assassin
2009-01-14, 20:59
This has gotta be some kind of record, they covered more than 4 chapters of material in a single episode! At least they worked in most of the important scenes in one way or another, I was getting worried they might cut the scarf scene which would be a tragedy. Ami really got the shaft though, she was completely cut from the baseball cage scene and they cut down her argument with Sumire drastically. I guess the last episode was kind of the writers throwing her VA a bone for the lack of scenes with her in this arc.
... Aww crud, so that means there's (almost) no Ami in the entire baseball cage scene? Damn, just when I thought they won't be skipping THAT part! I really wanted to see that... :upset:
Despair ensues.
physics223
2009-01-14, 21:06
OMG. I can see the shafting from miles away. ;_;
Ami ... ;_;
typhonsentra
2009-01-14, 21:22
Worse yet, they didn't even have her at the batting cages! It was just Taiga, Yuusaku, and Ryuuji. No scene of Taiga and Kitamura dancing around Ami at the restaurant, no "Surprise hug" from Ryuuji, no dinner scene at the restaurant. It was all cut.
Peanutbutter
2009-01-14, 22:47
Woah, seems like quite a bit of novel material was excluded.
Well, in any case, if the cuts are justified and does not differ from what the novel is conveying then it's alright, right?
Nice episode once again. I kinda think that the animators had it easy cause they had a very good story to work on. If this series becomes a considerable success with sales figures to support it, most of the credit should go to the author.
Ryuuji's mum was awesome. :heh: Loved the
Here's the money. Get out of my house! I want to sleep! :heh:
King Lycan
2009-01-14, 22:58
Kitamura Blond hair= sunohara lol :p
But the episode was great we saw a lot of Taiga..seems like she an actually converse with Kitamure now :heh:
Can't wait for subs :D
physics223
2009-01-14, 23:01
I just hate, hate, hate the fact that they're shafting Ami this early.
King Lycan
2009-01-14, 23:03
I just hate, hate, hate the fact that they're shafting Ami this early.
Them seem to be shafting Minorin:uhoh:
Darknemo2000
2009-01-14, 23:07
But this was more horrible episode from Ami's perspective, so many of her scenes were deleted... She was seriously shafted in this one.
Anyone else tickled by the SHEEEEEEEEEER amount of "SHAFTING" and Ami in this thread?
Not I, I'm totally emo and sad now.
Somehow I want to see surprise buttseks hugs from Ryuuji onto Ami. Oh well.
We should demand more Ami from JC.
Led_Zeppelin
2009-01-14, 23:37
Hi to all ...
I like the this chapter (especially the crying taiga)...
but the way that ami was erased for this episode... :frustrated:
And there were so good scenes... :(
I hope JCStaff use the Ami`s material to do someting... i don`t know, some filler chapter or someting...
well sorry for my bad english...
typhonsentra
2009-01-14, 23:41
They could easily rework the baseball cage material into the school in the next episode. The scene between her and him happened in front of vending machines so it's possible but I wouldn't count on it. Shame too, it was a nice scene.
cloner4000
2009-01-15, 00:21
That's what I thought too, I was really looking forward to the Ami scene...
Kitamura is my favorite character on the show
great episode!
wistfulloner
2009-01-15, 01:37
Just as I predicted, Kitamura would receive more appreciation from this episode onwards.
he's always been my favorite though
starting from the ep, where we had a flashback of him
confessing to Taiga "I'm Crazy About You!"
wistfulloner
2009-01-15, 01:51
I would be advise you to be careful though, lotsa Kitamura haters around here :D
yeah, i noticed that
i was just lurking here before. i don't understand where the hates coming from.
:heh:
Master Assassin
2009-01-15, 02:08
yeah, i noticed that
i was just lurking here before. i don't understand where the hates coming from.
:heh:
Probably those who have read some, if not most, of the novels (including me) and pointed out how Yuusaku is such... a selfish dude? And many other negative remarks about him?
And you're talking with one :heh:
But yeah. Just... argh, I can't find words to describe how "irrational" he was in this episode and pretty much how everyone disliked him...
so i just have to wait and see the rest of the episodes
man, that sure hurt me a bit. well, let's see...
but so far, he hasn't done anything wrong, well IMO
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-15, 02:17
I have not heard positive things about this episode on the blogosphere. I, in turn, suspect it has to do with the collective hard-on for Ami everyone seems to have.
"BAWWW NO AMI IN THIS EPISODE THIS SERIES IS FAIL"
Despite the fact that we got plenty of Ami development last episode...
That, or complaining about how Kitamura's being a whiny douche.
"BAWWW A CHARACTER IS ACTING IN A WAY I DON'T LIKE THIS SERIES IS FAIL"
Whatever. I'll wait for the subs before making further judgments.
Master Assassin
2009-01-15, 02:26
Whatever it is, it's not like Ami can have all screen time for her can she? Other characters need to share the awesome :D
Although the "key" Ami scenes skipped in this episode doesn't put a lot of us much in our joy waiting for each new episodes as usual, but I do agree Yacchan is amazing in this episode. LOL WTH with her "I has money you take them and then GTFO Yacchan wanna sleep." :heh:
... I'm still waiting for the subs as well...
asrielchase
2009-01-15, 02:38
It's more to do with shafting one of the best scenes in the entire vol.6, i think. I'm not a big fan of Ami myself, and I quite enjoy the pace of toradora so far, but excluding THAT scene is beyond my understanding. Sigh I guess if the staff wants to finish all the material in 26 episodes, the KitamuraxSumire arc has to be be cut down as much as possible to make room for the coming volumes..
I don't care much about the baseball cage scene, but the stuff Ami says to Kitamura in the guidance room shed so much light into Ami's character, and it also illustrates minorin's comment about her.
BLARR! I'M A TROLL!
Nice story man.
stewie0814
2009-01-15, 04:49
Well, as always, toradora's quite the solid show and I enjoyed this episode a lot. Can't comment on the 'shafting' you guys mention, since i haven't read the manga(or novel, whatever it is), but so far the anime seems to have a nice pace to it, it doesn't seem to be rushing nor dragging things (for me, anyways)
Is minori telling us she's a yandere :o?
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p36/wertyu07/kitamura_eggs.png
hmm.....burnt eggs
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p36/wertyu07/taiga_wannaicecream.png
Gimme some icecream.
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p36/wertyu07/taiga_ryuujilookstars.png
they look good here
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p36/wertyu07/rmom_out.png
Here's the money, get out nao! :heh:
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p36/wertyu07/taiga_ryuuji.png
Ryuuji = badass bodyguard :heh:
BigJimmy
2009-01-15, 08:54
All this talk of shafting Ami....oh my! :eyespin:
And is anyone else getting a Galadriel-vibe off Taiga at the end? "All will vote for me and despair!" Man, it's gotta suck to be in that school right now.
Kinny Riddle
2009-01-15, 10:17
TAIGA FOR PRESIDENT! 'Nuff said.
Man, the episode breezed through 4 chapters of volume 6 like it was nothing. I haven't even finished reading the book. :upset:
Kitamura has been "Sunohara-fied", if there was ever such a word. :heh:
Though I would prefer that his blond hair stood up as seen in the novel illustration, rather than just simply dyed blonde. With his hair merely blonde, he's still the "normal" Kitamura to me, but with his hair standing up, he does give that rebellious delinquent feel that he's trying to give.
But yet most of the important bits were still there, but they seem shortened a lot. Like Ami trying to provoke a reaction from Sumire; Ryuji and Minori's exchange of feelings; Taiga various hilarious reaction when Kitamura is in the house.
At first I was aghast in horror when they took out that warm scene with Ryuji putting his scarf on Taiga, but was relieved and even impressed that they moved it to after discovering Kitamura was crying.
I can see where Taiga and Ryuji are going from by running for SC president. They're purposely trying to be the menacing "bad guys" so as to have Kitamura re-emerge as the saviour that will save the school from a disastrous Reign of Terror by the Palmtop Tiger. Reverse psychology, to put it simply.
typhonsentra
2009-01-15, 11:13
Subs are out on AnimeSeason for those interested. Less than 24 hours, that's pretty crazy.
Peanutbutter
2009-01-15, 11:19
Subs are out on AnimeSeason for those interested. Less than 24 hours, that's pretty crazy.
You forgot Coalguys.
I've been getting their subs, since qq/gg/jj whatever doesn't seem to show any movement, and Coalguys seem to be the only coal people around. :heh:
typhonsentra
2009-01-15, 11:23
You're right, I just checked their site. The one on AnimeSeason is probably their translation.
BigJimmy
2009-01-15, 11:40
I can see where Taiga and Ryuji are going from by running for SC president. They're purposely trying to be the menacing "bad guys" so as to have Kitamura re-emerge as the saviour that will save the school from a disastrous Reign of Terror by the Palmtop Tiger. Reverse psychology, to put it simply.
Hell, look at next week's preview. They're wearing Dracula cloaks :twitch: They'd better throw in a few mwahaha's, or I'll be very displeased.
Caster13
2009-01-15, 12:17
I'm glad that Kitamura is finally getting a decent amount of attention. Even more so that it's in a so benign, almost cliché way as Ami points out quite a few times. It just shows how human he is. We might have all kept some distance from him for the past fourteen episodes compared to the other characters, but something like this can make him all the more relateable.
Whatever happened to Kitamura, he doesn't like it. Something's changed for the worse and when one can't stand it, one might subconsciously go for broke and try to change everything possible. Intentionally or not, in Kitamura's case, this'll include how other people treat and react to him and that's playing right into his hand.
And so he shacks up with Ryuuji and Taiga, two people close to him who haven't drastically reacted to him and his changes. But since the two naturally are worried about him, they're not just going to do nothing at all. Question is whether the things they've learned in the past will be of any help.
Few goods moments.
Some Kitamura's developpement
Not a bad episode, it's too soon for this ark to expect greats moments.
We will see.
Ya-chan pwnd teh episode
or was it dictator taiga?:D
But noooo, more Ami´d be thx
or a Season 2 announcement Xd
houkoholic
2009-01-15, 14:25
It's more to do with shafting one of the best scenes in the entire vol.6, i think. I'm not a big fan of Ami myself, and I quite enjoy the pace of toradora so far, but excluding THAT scene is beyond my understanding.
It's not shafting.....
The interaction between Ami and Ryuji in volume 6 is protrayed as almost like Ami seriously flirting with Ryuji and presenting herself as a choice for Ryuji, I know for AmiXRyuji supporters it is a scene waiting to be seen. However in novel 9 when Ami confessed to Ryuji the reason she stayed at the school was because she wanted to protect the place where she can be herself and accepted, and to help everyone in the relationship (Taiga, Ryuji, Minorin, Kitamura) because she knew that everyone is hurt/being hurt/or going to be hurt when the four were keep on going with the ambigious friends/supporter relationship, she knew what the pairing was and she said that she wanted to help make them truly happy thus the reason she stayed. If they are going to keep this line of reasoning for Ami staying and to play her part in trying to help make their relationship right in the future arcs it doesn't make much sense for her to be throwing spanners into the cogs like she does in volume 6 because she would be doing the exact opposite of what she said she stayed for. And I'm assuming that is the major reason why the took it out and replaced it with the original scenes in the previous episode to make the future development flow more logically.
Deathkillz
2009-01-15, 15:23
Oh man did Kitamura lose his head...this has got to be one of the quickest breakdowns to a character recently seen :heh:
He completely screwed himself up and just because the student president asked you out...oh gosh he still is a kid afterall :rolleyes:
Of course it would be more complex than this but until we get there...
Ryuji's mom <333
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-15, 15:44
Nice story man.
So I'm a troll for pointing out how people seem to be thinking?
Your logic is INFALLIBLE, seriously.
If I were a "troll" I would be trying to make other people angry. I was merely expressing how I feel about people's negative comments. In my usual blunt manner.
Just because there is little Ami in this episode does not make it bad. Just because Kitamura is acting in a stupid manner does not make it bad.
I'd have expected some better arguments than this.
typhonsentra
2009-01-15, 15:50
Houkoholic, if it wouldn't make sense for them to show the scene because it doesn't work with what she later says is her reason for staying then doesn't that kinda say she was lying/being dishonest during the later conversation?
Honestly, I thought knowing a bit more about Kitamura would be good. Now he annoys me even more. His childish mentality is just horrible. I know no other way to describe it, nor do i wish to waste time elaborating on it. I don't think I'll like parts of his arc, since I don't like him as its focal char.
One thing it awakens me to; Kitamura was very much acting like Minorin. He had that high-spirited, easygoing, cheerful personality. I can see why they get along so well. Seeing him get so self-destructive has me worried about if something were to happen to Minorin. Maybe that's why she was so worried about him. Not having someone to confide in, someone to understand you; its synonymous with her situation.
It feels like Minorin is continuing to talk about herself more to Ryuuji. She must really hoping that Ryuuji starts to understand the 'real' her. It was very nice, though Ryuuji's face looked so half-hearted when he called her kind and when she yelled at him. Usually his face would lighten up or smile, retract back, something. Not that it really matters compared to the tones in the conversation itself, I just found it kinda weird.
Ya-chan looked pretty scary when her sleep is disturbed. I can almost visualize how Ryuuji's dad could be attracted(or maybe feared :p) that. And Ryuuji's 'deliquent' look at the end was excellent.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-15, 16:25
Honestly, I thought knowing a bit more about Kitamura would be good. Now he annoys me even more. His childish mentality is just horrible.
This might just be exactly the point.
it's not like i'm angry or anything, but it's really complicated to me to rate this... in one hand i have the "novel experience" in that way i'd give it a 4 or a 5, but for someone who didn't read novels, this episode is a 9 minimun.
really guys, it's kinda complicated read this thread, some people who only see the anime is trying to skip this because of the unavoidable spoilers we all leave here and there.
OMG , just watch this episode !
The more , it show kitamura , the more i hate him ! Piss me off !
Just because , he got rejected , he acting like a kido , a bastard , a crying baby !!!
WTF ! and he make Taiga more suffered and worried ! He already know Taiga love him but he don't mind at all playing around her feelings ! Kick him with his blond hair who make him more worse !
Well , Taiga love him more and more and "final salvation" but don't realize yet Ryuji is more carrying and more gentle !
Wow , Ryuji was mean too , when Kushieda talking about Ami , he acting like he don't care !
Ryuji should focused more on Kushieda instead to keep on Taiga x Kitamura !(he should get more interested on Ami too )
There are still kiddo excepted Ami , so need more developpement !
And , don't wake up Ryuji's mom or you'll be kicked out !^^
physics223
2009-01-15, 18:38
Here (http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2009/01/toradora-15-the-beginning-of-the-end-or-the-shafting-of-ami/) is my take on the episode. I hope you enjoy it. :)
kk2extreme
2009-01-15, 18:44
And , don't wake up Ryuji's mom or you'll be kicked out !^^
and get money in return :D
Taiga acting girly made me dislike her even more... The guy who does everything for her gets no respect, but for Kitamura she even fucking cooks... The only reason people like Taiga is because she's got the whole loli thing going for her, if she was fat and ugly nobody would care.
And I actually like Kitamura, if only for the fact that he is going to make her cry when he rejects her again sometime in the future.
WTF ! and he make Taiga more suffered and worried ! He already know Taiga love him but he don't mind at all playing around her feelings ! Kick him with his blond hair who make him more worse !
Didn't she promptly tell him to fuck off when he confessed to her? At least he was a lot classier when he reject her... He already said that he is no longer interested, it's her fault for not moving on...
Taiga is really getting onto my nerves with all this obsession... He's just a crush, really, talk about insane over reactions?
The highlight of this episode would be the brillant play of "admiration is the furthest from understanding" it happened twice! When Minorin praised Ami for being "mature" and when Ryuuji saids Minorin was "kind" and she was like nuuu.
Minorin's remark about Ami really makes me hope that this anime ends as ChiDora, from what I've seen so far the only one who understands Ami the most is Ryuuji at least he sees through the fake matureness.
Anyways it was a pretty decent episode, didn't really go anywhere and the Taiga reactions were kinda like.. really? are you THAT obsessed, geez get a hobby :/
8 out of 10
PS : The animation seemed to be much better quality this time -or maybe it was because I changed my subs-
I'm so disappointed in this episode. Sorry to say but this is by far the worst episode for me. I loathe emo episodes. This episode almost made me give up on this show. it was THAT bad.
Not only is Kitamura one of the useless characters, him being emo was the main plot of this episode?! Please....
And no Ami.....fail.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-15, 19:57
I love how whenever anyone in an anime acts in a very negative, very human fashion, everyone constantly has to state how horrible they are.
How dare they give into their human emotions instead of being mature and acting rationally.
Kitamura just had what was probably a huge emotional shock to him. I can't blame him for being an idiot about it. What is he, 16-17?
Anyway, like most of the arc opening episodes, not that fantastic. Of course, this is just setup for the arc finale, which will be, as usual, amazing.
Also, I really did love how they kept Kitamura's eyebrows his usual green. Nice touch.
8/10 from me.
I'm so disappointed in this episode. Sorry to say but this is by far the worst episode for me. I loathe emo episodes. This episode almost made me give up on this show. it was THAT bad.
I'd suggest you stop watching now, then, if you were watching for the comedy.
And no Ami.....fail.
See, this is what I'm talking about. This should not be a reason to hate an episode.
typhonsentra
2009-01-15, 20:05
I think we might see some opinions of Kitamura change next week. Once you learn his way of thinking and what motivates him, why he is the way he is begins to make sense.
But I still agree with the guy who complained about Taiga still doting over Kitamura. It's just sad at this point, do you ever learn why she's so obsessed?
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-15, 20:11
But I still agree with the guy who complained about Taiga still doting over Kitamura. It's just sad at this point, do you ever learn why she's so obsessed?
It is kind of funny, in a way. But yeah, it is getting kind of sad.
Well, I'd say she's obsessed because she's got this idealized vision of a relationship with him, and it's her first crush, and... a lot of things, yeah.
Taiga's just like that.
Master Chibi
2009-01-15, 21:29
It's a teenage girl with a crush, why is there a need to explain much of anything?
And giant LOL at people complaining that Kitamura was acting emo.
Really, some of you are completely blind of what makes this show so beautiful, and likely an instant classic when all is said and done.
"OH NO, KITAMURA IS GETTING DEVELOPED AS A CHARACTER AND IT'S NOT FUNNY AT ALL, THIS IS TOTAL GARBAGE WHERE ARE MY LOLS?????"
Damn. Sometimes I really wonder why you people are watching to begin with.
I love how whenever anyone in an anime acts in a very negative, very human fashion, everyone constantly has to state how horrible they are.
How dare they give into their human emotions instead of being mature and acting rationally.
Kitamura just had what was probably a huge emotional shock to him. I can't blame him for being an idiot about it. What is he, 16-17?
Anyway, like most of the arc opening episodes, not that fantastic. Of course, this is just setup for the arc finale, which will be, as usual, amazing.
Also, I really did love how they kept Kitamura's eyebrows his usual green. Nice touch.
8/10 from me.
I'd suggest you stop watching now, then, if you were watching for the comedy.
See, this is what I'm talking about. This should not be a reason to hate an episode.
Umm no I don't watch Toradora for its comedy. Its a comedy? But this episode is just plain bad compared to the last 14 episodes. And just want to see more of my favorite char Ami lol. That's all.
Master Chibi
2009-01-15, 21:34
Umm no I don't watch Toradora for its comedy. Its a comedy? But this episode is just plain bad compared to the last 14 episodes. And just want to see more of my favorite char Ami lol. That's all.
No, this episode upholds the same fantastic quality the rest of the series has given us, and you wanting to see more of another character should in no way hold weight against it.
I mean seriously, think about the fact that this show is bothering to develop him at all. Many, many other shows would have shelved him as a side character and stuck him with a paper thin personality and let that be the end of it, but the fact that we're actually being show a very human reaction / other side of him is MIND BLOWING and should really be appreciated because it shows how much this show really, really, really, really, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY cares for its characters.
Darknemo2000
2009-01-15, 21:39
I dont think it gives any depth for his character. There is a difference between depth and childish overreaction after all, and thats what Kitamura's act looks like. It is not really a depth nor really caring about the character. To care about the character you have to do something better than artificially formed tension.
This is why I guess many are annoyed by Kitamura. Him going emo does not give him much depth. It is not like Shinji where going emo is really based with characters deoth (though even that annoyed many). In Kitamura's case it looks forced and shallow, which doesn't make him deeper as character at all, just increasing for some the feeling of dislikeness towards this character as he is not as natural as the rest of the cast. Even the attempts to give him depth look unnatural and forced.
i dont get it did the current prez like told him he has no chance in hell going out with her?
maxpepper
2009-01-15, 21:47
you'll find out next episode :)
(but if you really want to know there is plenty of info in the novel thread)
Master Chibi
2009-01-15, 21:49
I dont think it gives any depth for his character. There is a difference between depth and childish overreaction after all, and thats what Kitamura's act looks like. It is not really a depth nor really caring about the character. To care about the character you have to do something better than artificially formed tension.
This is why I guess many are annoyed by Kitamura. Him going emo does not give him much depth. It is not like Shinji where going emo is really based with characters deoth. In Kitamura's case it looks forced and shallow.
It gives plenty depth to his character because all we've seen for the past 14 episodes is an quirky bystander whose only REAL link to the entire plot is that he's Taiga's crush.
Taking him out of the role of simply being a plot device created to make her blush on sight and giving him a problem to deal with (whatever it may be) gives him depth, and that's not an opinion, that's fact. There's nothing artificial about giving him an obstacle or allowing him to be emotional for that matter. It's not being forced or shallow either. If he was nothing more then a crush and an eccentric idiot for the entireity of the show, well that would be completely artificial, forced, and shallow. Hell, that would make him a one dimensional character that could be replaced with a cardboard cut out and a tape player.
:eyespin:
Darknemo2000
2009-01-15, 22:00
It is artificially formed tension when it is formed in an unnatural way (character overreaction even by anime standarts etc.) thus makes the whole depth as if 'created' this way artificial as well.
Just because you are given more info about the character or make him go emo doesnt amke it a deep character. I thought you would have known that already by seeing many of such attempts in the anime already. Kitamura, sadly, is not an exception. While the rest of Toradora's cast are given the depth in natural way, Kitamura is used the typical clyche ever - emo=character depth, not caring that the whole sitiation and tension is very artificial and forced. We have seen it many times and kitamura just follows the lead of many other animes that can't give time to give character natural depth and have to force sudden emo=depth thing on us.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-15, 22:01
It's a teenage girl with a crush, why is there a need to explain much of anything?
And giant LOL at people complaining that Kitamura was acting emo.
Really, some of you are completely blind of what makes this show so beautiful, and likely an instant classic when all is said and done.
"OH NO, KITAMURA IS GETTING DEVELOPED AS A CHARACTER AND IT'S NOT FUNNY AT ALL, THIS IS TOTAL GARBAGE WHERE ARE MY LOLS?????"
Damn. Sometimes I really wonder why you people are watching to begin with.
No, this episode upholds the same fantastic quality the rest of the series has given us, and you wanting to see more of another character should in no way hold weight against it.
I mean seriously, think about the fact that this show is bothering to develop him at all. Many, many other shows would have shelved him as a side character and stuck him with a paper thin personality and let that be the end of it, but the fact that we're actually being show a very human reaction / other side of him is MIND BLOWING and should really be appreciated because it shows how much this show really, really, really, really, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY cares for its characters.
It gives plenty depth to his character because all we've seen for the past 14 episodes is an quirky bystander whose only REAL link to the entire plot is that he's Taiga's crush.
Taking him out of the role of simply being a plot device created to make her blush on sight and giving him a problem to deal with (whatever it may be) gives him depth, and that's not an opinion, that's fact. There's nothing artificial about giving him an obstacle or allowing him to be emotional for that matter. It's not being forced or shallow either. If he was nothing more then a crush and an eccentric idiot for the entireity of the show, well that would be completely artificial, forced, and shallow. Hell, that would make him a one dimensional character that could be replaced with a cardboard cut out and a tape player.
:eyespin:
...I love you.
Seriously though, this is the most constructive and positive posting I've seen in ages.
Thank you so very very much for being a pillar of intelligence and positivity here. Thank you so very very much for making actual sense.
Dammit I need to rep more people before I can rep you for this...
Just because you are given more info about the character or make him go emo doesnt amke it a deep character. I thought you would have known that already by seeing many of such attempts in the anime already. Kitamura, sadly, is not an exception. While the rest of Toradora's cast are given the depth in natural way, Kitamura is used the typical clyche ever - emo=character depth, not caring that the whole sitiation and tension is very artificial and forced. We have seen it many times and kitamura just follows the lead of many other animes that can't give time to give character natural depth and have to force sudden emo=depth thing on us.
I disagree, personally. I think it's fairly well done, considering. I also think it's pretty funny.
I mean, his first reaction his situation is to DYE HIS HAIR. That's both incredibly dumb and exactly the sort of thing Kitamura would do.
Master Chibi
2009-01-15, 22:18
It is artificially formed tension when it is formed in an unnatural way (character overreaction even by anime standarts etc.) thus makes the whole depth as if 'created' this way artificial as well.
Just because you are given more info about the character or make him go emo doesnt amke it a deep character. I thought you would have known that already by seeing many of such attempts in the anime already. Kitamura, sadly, is not an exception. While the rest of Toradora's cast are given the depth in natural way, Kitamura is used the typical clyche ever - emo=character depth, not caring that the whole sitiation and tension is very artificial and forced. We have seen it many times and kitamura just follows the lead of many other animes that can't give time to give character natural depth and have to force sudden emo=depth thing on us.
You are extremely frustrating to talk to guy.
Everytime someone bothers to disagree with you you just take everything they've told you, lay it out infront of them, and then slap a giant OPPOSITE sticker onto it and hand it back.
How is it forced? Most of us don't even know why he's acting the way he is, but seeing him crack is certainly a departure. You going to tell me making a guy like Kitamura act like a normal teenager is forced? Crying is forced? Should he be jumping through hoops at this point? I don't get where you're pulling all this 'artificial / forced' nonsense. I'm sitting here wondering what could make him act so unlike himself, but you're stuck at the fact that he shouldn't be acting like it because it isn't like him. It's like you refuse to accept it because it doesn't adhere to some standard of acceptable problems / reactions / emotions that you've created.
:\
houkoholic
2009-01-15, 22:22
Houkoholic, if it wouldn't make sense for them to show the scene because it doesn't work with what she later says is her reason for staying then doesn't that kinda say she was lying/being dishonest during the later conversation?
It goes both ways - she could be lying in vol6 or lying later during the confession. However her actions in the later arc (Christmas, school trips etc) and the nature of the confession supports what she said later being the truth, rather than the former being true, making her actions in volume 6 going in conflict to what she said she wants to do and thus make that scene out of place.
Darknemo2000
2009-01-15, 22:47
You are extremely frustrating to talk to guy.
Everytime someone bothers to disagree with you you just take everything they've told you, lay it out infront of them, and then slap a giant OPPOSITE sticker onto it and hand it back.
Huh are you talking about yourself? Since I feel those words can be easily directed to you as well.
Forced is the overreaction towards the problem which also comes out of the blue. There is no gradual creation of the scene just sudden throw emo into us which makes such scene look artificial and forced (yes crying and other things are just as artificial because the tension that generated them looks forced) which makes Kitamura's character just as shallow as it was before.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-15, 22:57
You really hate the guy, don't you?
I'd have thought a lot of the last episode was setup for this arc and his emoness, but...
Darknemo2000
2009-01-15, 23:03
He is an easy character to hate. Look at popularity polls be it here or in Japan... While it doenst tell he is hated, it tells he is not liked. His character is really struggling and the overused cliche of sudden emo being presented as if the character depth that was used in numerous animes really numerous times, doesn't make him any better.
While Kitamura's reaction is rather sudden, the fact remains that we really don't know much about Kitamura. Because of this, I don't think we can honestly call it an overreaction. For the same reason, I wouldn't call him shallow or deep. He's a work in progress. Sure, it would've been nice if they could've built his breakdown gradually, but the abrupt change in Kitamura's behavior further directs our focus to the key point that he is a relative unknown in the series. I'm interested to see where JC Staff goes from here.
Master Chibi
2009-01-15, 23:04
Huh are you talking about yourself? Since I feel those words can be easily directed to you as well.
See?
Case in point.
lol
Forced is the overreaction towards the problem which also comes out of the blue. There is no gradual creation of the scene just sudden throw emo into us which makes such scene look artificial and forced (yes crying and other things are just as artificial because the tension that generated them looks forced) which makes Kitamura's character just as shallow as it was before.
Now you want things to be explained to you from the get go?
That's no fun at all.
It sounds more like you don't care for Kitamura's character, so you're quick to disregard how they go about it in explaining it (edit- looking back at the replies prior to this, looks like I'm right). Your point would be valid if his entire ordeal was wrapped up this episode, but it's not. The fact that they're devoting more then one episode (maybe up three) is proof that it's not being shallow / forced / artificial. Again, you can dislike him, but to hold that as con against how the show develops him is going offsides.
Again, you people keep sitting at the end of the situation and argue about what the character is doing there, when this show is (and always was) primarily dealt with showing us how they got there. This time they're going backwards, giving us the reaction (end of the situation, which ironically is actually the begining now), and now where' going to find out what lead him to act that way (which then leads to the actual end of this situation). I don't see anything wrong with that.
:P
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-15, 23:10
He is an easy character to hate. Look at popularity polls be it here or in Japan... While it doenst tell he is hated, it tells he is not liked. His character is really struggling and the overused cliche of sudden emo being presented as if the character depth that was used in numerous animes really numerous times, doesn't make him any better.
I don't see how "sudden emo" is a cliche.
Nor do I see how popularity polls could be affected by something that, you know, just happened.
And I can't understand the rest of your post...
Darknemo2000
2009-01-15, 23:11
So you are saying you are a frustrating guy to talk to? Good we actually agree on something. :P
I mean the whole situation and the tension is made over it is artificial... How many times do I have to repeat it? It is overreaction, even considering him being a teenager.
And the motives behind that is not impressive at all. Thats why this episode doesn't really create deeper character. More info not equals character depth, specially if the whole tension that caused it is artificial and forced. My verdict may be strongly influenced because I do know what happens next as I do read novels.
I don't see how "sudden emo" is a cliche.
How about reading Sadamoto? His stuff reaches us since 1992 already so he really started this. Or any other stuff that tries to be artificially deep but have no time to make it natural. It is a really old cliche, but I guess if you do not watch the shows then it must be a new world for you. Like when you see a first harem you think "Wow, how original."
Master Chibi
2009-01-15, 23:18
So you are saying you are a frustrating guy to talk to? Good we actually agree on something. :P
I mean the whole situation and the tension is made over it is artificial... How many times do I have to repeat it? It is overreaction, even considering him being a teenager.
And the motives behind that is not impressive at all. Thats why this episode doesn't really create deeper character. More info not equals character depth, specially if the whole tension that caused it is artificial and forced. My verdict may be strongly influenced because I do know what happens next as I do read novels.
You've done absolutely nothing to state why it is what you're saying it is, you're just stating it period as if it was fact, and it's not.
I did the same, but I offered the notion that showing a different side to a character who we haven't actually touched upon at all up to this point is in fact, irrefutable depth.
Even if you want to argue against that (use more of those magical opposite stickers of yours), the problem itself is what may actually be deep, but then I don't know that right now.
All I'm getting here is that:
- You don't like Kitamura (you hate him), and that greatly influences (wrongly may I add) how your opinion of how the show decides to portray his developtment.
- You've read the novels. Hey, guess what? NOONE CARES. This is the thread for the anime.
- You think it's forced, artificial, contrived, and him not being popular amongst fans of Toradora somehow has something to do with it.
:P
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-15, 23:21
I mean the whole situation and the tension is made over it is artificial... How many times do I have to repeat it? It is overreaction, even considering him being a teenager.
See, this is your opinion. It isn't a fact, it's subjective.
And him being a teenager is what makes him overreact like that. Kids aren't exactly the most wise of individuals.
How about reading Sadamoto? His stuff reaches us since 1992 already so he really tarted this. Or any other stuff that tries to be artificially deep but have no time to make it natural. It is a really old cliche, but I guess if you do not watch the shows then it must be a new world for you. Like when you see a first harem you think "Wow, how original."
Okay, see, I have no idea who that is.
And that really isn't a cliche. That's simply bad writing, you're talking about. And this really isn't. It's indirect characterization.
Caster13
2009-01-15, 23:31
Forced is the overreaction towards the problem which also comes out of the blue. There is no gradual creation of the scene just sudden throw emo into us which makes such scene look artificial and forced (yes crying and other things are just as artificial because the tension that generated them looks forced) which makes Kitamura's character just as shallow as it was before.
Calling it an overreaction rather defeats the purpose of something being out of the blue. He is, after all, reacting to something. Perhaps he's reacting too drastically, but he's still reacting to something that evokes a change in his behaviour.
I wouldn't say it's entirely sudden either. There have been quite a few hints coming up to this that goes as far back as the summer villa episode. Ami teases out hints of some possible problem between Kitamura and the student council when she tells him that he's surprised Kitamura came along.
At the end of the cultural festival, there's some tension between Kitamura and Sumire as she talks about how she's going to be gone next year. Then in the previous episode, we know that Kitamura and Sumire have a serious discussion that leaves him a dazed stupor when Taiga finds him.
I think you might also be mistaking time (which is restricted in a television show) with actual changes in a person's behaviour.
Consider, for example, the five stages of loss and grief: denial/isolation, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. This is a list of behaviours in stages, not a time line.
Darknemo2000
2009-01-15, 23:42
You've done absolutely nothing to state why it is what you're saying it is, you're just stating it period as if it was fact, and it's not.
I did the same, but I offered the notion that showing a different side to a character who we haven't actually touched upon at all up to this point is in fact, irrefutable depth.
While I offer a notion that more info does not equals upon creating a character depth. We are still on the same wheel and doesn't make your opinion better as we both provide our opinions and both provide completely different notions that follow.
You just think you are right, I think I am.
It may be deep or it may be not. Your defending and my defending stands on the same ground of may which amkes yours statement just as invallid as mine or mine, just as invalid as yours . We are just stating our opinions neither giving any support on that but the notions taht are already different.
You keep on using those magical oppose stickers just as much as I do, its just taht you are too full of yourself to admit it, as those stickers are always the statements.
- You don't like Kitamura (you hate him), and that greatly influences (wrongly may I add) how your opinion of how the show decides to portray his developtment.
I can say it this way - You like Kitamura, and that greatly influences (wrongly may I add) how your opinion of how the show decides to portray his developtment.
Liking and disliking are both perverting ones decision. Juts that you like the character doenst make your opinion better than the one who doesn't.
- You've read the novels. Hey, guess what? NOONE CARES. This is the thread for the anime.
With this one i have to agree. But you have to admit that knowing original source does give you some advantage which may or may not come true.
- You think it's forced, artificial, contrived, and him not being popular amongst fans of Toradora somehow has something to do with it.
Not really. You are just incapable to read carefully. Or maybe I am incapable to express myself clearly (its 6 am in here after all and i still ahd no sleep, busy writing papers) :P
I am saying that his character is shallow already and the fact that his popularity do not rise after the said "depth" creation just shows that 'depth' creation may be not so deep at all. Well In anime discussion it still has to happen though as the depth only brought out recently. But you have read yourself that some people still do not like him, and actually started to dislike him more after this one, rather than liking.
See, this is your opinion. It isn't a fact, it's subjective.
And whose opinion isn't? Yours?
Our both opinion are equally subjective. And yours is biased just as much as mines. We are both sharing two opinions that are both subjective. And this where we will always stop as there cannot be an objective opinion as long as it is based on individual understanding.
Master Chibi
2009-01-15, 23:49
I don't use the stickers buddy, I just have to take them off your replies whenever we end up butting heads.
Fortunately other people actually agree with me at this point~
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-15, 23:49
While I offer a notion that more info does not equals upon creating a character depth. We are still on the same wheel and doesn't make your opinion better as we both provide our opinions and both provide completely different notions that follow.
You just think you are right, I think I am.
It may be deep or it may be not. Your defending and my defending stands on the same ground of may which amkes yours statement just as invallid as mine or mine, just as invalid as yours . We are just stating our opinions neither giving any support on that but the notions taht are already different.
You keep on using those magical oppose stickers just as much as I do, its just taht you are too full of yourself to admit it, as those stickers are always the statements.
I can say it this way - You like Kitamura, and that greatly influences (wrongly may I add) how your opinion of how the show decides to portray his developtment.
Liking and disliking are both perverting ones decision. Juts that you like the character doenst make your opinion better than the one who doesn't.
With this one i have to agree. But you have to admit that knowiong original source does give you some adbantage which may or may not come true.
Not really. You are just incapable to read carefully. :P
I am saying that his character is shallow already and the fact that his popularity do not rise after the said "depth" creation just shows that 'depth' creation may be not so deep at all. Well In anime discussion it still has to happen though as the depth only brought out recently. But you have read yourself that some people still do not like him, and actually started to dislike him more after this one, rather than liking.
Okay.
All you are doing is trying to prove that he's just as biased as you are.
You're doing it wrong.
You're also using thiny veiled insults to attempt to make a point. This makes you look unintelligent.
wistfulloner
2009-01-15, 23:57
People, lets not argue about this. The main focus of your argument, how Kitamura is viewed, has been lost already, and has given way to bashing each other. Lets stay on topic.
Darknemo2000
2009-01-15, 23:59
Well the point is that we are all biased in here, and you try to prove my opinion to be wrong... based on your opinion. Which is what it will be and neither will prove it to be right.
But this is what discussions are about , sharing opinions even if they end up in clash. But in general we will never find a consensus as in the end these are always our opinions you state my opinion being wrong I state yours. And so to the eternity, simply because it is an opinion.
And how it is wrong?
Ogh yeah, it is your opinion about it being wrong. But does it make it wrong?
Well the insult was unintended as only later I noticed that I missed part of the sentence (and was editing while you quoted me). Or at least I did not meant to be one-sided but two sided (directed on me as well).
When you try to talk about subjectiveness and say the person is wrong because of that, you have to remember that what you talk is most probably subjectiveness as well so your criticism stand on the same ground.
On our forums the only objectiveness is moderators and admins. Why? Because their subjectiveness have the power. When subjectiveness has the power it becomes objective.
Since neither yours nor mine can overpower each other we are bound to be always subjective. Its a cruel truth about the objectiveness in human world. Even rules or laws are actually subjectiveness which has the power. But it can be just - it can apply to each and every equally. Bit on the whole it is subjective in the morals it supports or defends.
Master Chibi
2009-01-16, 00:12
People, lets not argue about this. The main focus of your argument, how Kitamura is viewed, has been lost already, and has given way to bashing each other. Lets stay on topic.
Nothing's been lost, it's just that noone else has bothered to reply.
I'm just trying to squeeze actual reasons out of darkenemo, but if it bothers you so I will stop.
;p
Darknemo2000
2009-01-16, 00:17
The attempt is two-fold I am trying to do the same with you. it is just our reasons appareantly seem to be unreasonable for each other.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-16, 00:20
Well the point is that we are all biased in here, and you try to prove my opinion to be wrong... based on your opinion. Which is what it will be and neither will prove it to be right.
But this is what discussions are about , sharing opinions even if they end up in clash. But in general we will never find a consensus as in the end these are always our opinions you state my opinion being wrong I state yours. And so to the eternity, simply because it is an opinion.
And how it is wrong?
Ogh yeah, it is your opinion about it being wrong. But does it make it wrong?
Well the insult was unintended as only later I noticed that I missed part of the sentence (and was editing while you quoted me). Or at least I did not meant to be one-sided but two sided (directed on me as well).
When you try to talk about subjectiveness and say the person is wrong because of that, you have to remember that what you talk is most probably subjectiveness as well so your criticism stand on the same ground.
On our forums the only objectiveness is moderators and admins. Why? Because their subjectiveness have the power. When subjectiveness has the power it becomes objective.
Since neither yours nor mine can overpower each other we are bound to be always subjective. Its a cruel truth about the objectiveness in human world. Even rules or laws are actually subjectiveness which has the power. But it can be just - it can apply to each and every equally. Bit on the whole it is subjective in the morals it supports or defends.
Sigh.
Objective: Kitamura dyed his hair blonde.
Subjective: Kitamura's development is forced and artificial.
Objective: Kitamura is behaving in an angsty, emo fashion.
Subjective: Kitamura's character has no depth.
See the difference?
Darknemo2000
2009-01-16, 00:24
Sigh.
Objective: Kitamura dyed his hair blonde.
Subjective: Kitamura's development is forced and artificial.
Objective: Kitamura is behaving in an angsty, emo fashion.
Subjective: Kitamura's character has no depth.
See the difference?
You 'conveniently' forgot to mention another out of which (or more so collision with afore mentioned subjectiveness) it all steamed:
Subjective: Kitamura's development is well build.
Subjective: Kitamura's character has depth
Or are you saying that we all argued about Kitamura's hair being blond and not?
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-16, 00:31
-_-
...I... I just...
There's no point in arguing with you. No point at all.
Darknemo2000
2009-01-16, 00:35
Of course, since you understand that both opinions are subjective. Thus making your one-sided (when you mention only one subjectiveness - mine, not mentioning the other sides) comment bit embarrassing.
Personally, I don't mind the head banging on interpretation until someone starts calling names or accuse the other person of being incapable or stupid.
Dark, you really didn't refute Kaisos subject : object post, you just added to it. The objective part would be a list of actions that relate to the subjective statements you listed.
The only thing I have to say is that currently, by the anime, Kitamura's actions are a bit inexplicable ... therein lies the mystery. The arc isn't over. If it ends without clarifying why he acts the way he does (by flashback or whatever) then we can probably reach some consensus the execution was crapped.
*Appearances* are that he's an over-reactionary emo kid hiding in a popular mature student council VP who likes the prez ..... like all the other characters, there are probably some secrets behind the shields.
wistfulloner
2009-01-16, 03:37
I don't know how you always seem to appear with something smart and to say, Vexx. :D
Not that it bothers me, but if this goes on for a couple more posts, you can expect a visit from one of the mods very soon.
Darknemo2000
2009-01-16, 05:32
The greatest problem with this is that both statements (positive and negative) about Kitamura's character depth are subjective.
The core of this would be as I understand two different original positions regarding of how we treat character's depth:
Chibby: Any information, that was not given before, provided about character creates a character depth.
Me: Information about the character does not necessarily create character depth.
In Kitamura's case I commented that the situation that was created is artificial, thus making the build up attempts artificial build ups.
Chibby believes that there is nothing artificial in this, thus the info really lead to deepening the character.
Both of the opinions are opinions and what is worse, both are based on difference stances of the starting position (A: Info necessarily creates character depth, B: Info does not necessarily create character depth) and both are valid and invalid at the same time.
Which means that the the collision, and most likely fruitless, is unavoidable.
Kaisos just started emphasizing my part of being subjective (which I never argued it to be) yet did not mention that the opposing opinion is just as subjective, which I believe to be intentional.
P.S. If we were to go bit into philosophy, then even what Kaisos listed as objective is not objective at all, in a sense that seeing of color is not enough, it still has to be recorded and interpretative by our brains, which makes even the information that we get from our sensors ultimately is subjective as well. So even the statement 'Kitamura has dyed his hair blond' becomes subjective. Of course this leads to the eternal cycle of solipsism, thus probably it is better to avoid such theme since we would never be able to break it, unless we, like Descartes, would use demiurg (god) to break it.
There's a fundamental flaw to your stance, Darknemo2000... the more information we have on something, the better our perception of that something turns out to be. It's just a matter of depth perception (not the visual kind, by the way) - and a factual one, at that.
Now, you can discount that information all you want, but more information about a character does, indeed, add to that character's depth. If you don't think it's all that relevant to the way the character behaves or whatever, well, that's another matter entirely. :heh:
Nukerjsr
2009-01-16, 06:51
I really like Kitamura despite how many people don't care for him, so I'm really happy that we have an arc based around him. He's a main character but so far it's just been so circled around the three girls that he was almost forgotten. It's kind of annoying how there's this air of confusion with his changes, but I have a belief that the directors did that on purpose. You do want to care for Yuusaku and know what happened to him. Anyone agree?
Anyway, I did like the episode even though it had a lot of weird moments. I Minori really shined due to her insight and there were plenty of cute moments with Taiga and Ryuuji. Yasuko gets points too for being angry for the first time and then the whole scene where they plan to dye his hair back.
I do have a couple of issues with the episode nonetheless:
-Yeah, Ami got too little screentime. I wouldn't of been irritated with this, but it feels like that the left her in such a negative mood in the little time they showed us.
-Taiga's realization towards Kitamura felt a bit forced and random.
-It feels like since Sumire is the cause of Yuusaku's attitude, they should of reflected more on her.
And on a smaller note, Ami's friends kept refering Kitamura to as "Maruo." (Atleast from the subs I watched) I was thinking that they call him Mauro since that sounds like Marimo. Marimo = Green Algae. Yet when they try to dye his hair back, you notice that they plan to use black dye. Was there any reason for the name change or what?
Wow wow wow , don't become angry all , it's just an anime (even though i hate kitamura's character but it can be helped , you like or dislike some character ) !
I'm worried about , japanese , are they really like in anime ? i know there are somethings they are like anime's character (most japanese are timid ...... )
houkoholic
2009-01-16, 07:22
-Yeah, Ami got too little screentime. I wouldn't of been irritated with this, but it feels like that the left her in such a negative mood in the little time they showed us.
Well yes, because everyone is making a big fuss about Kitamura being abnormal and would pay so much attention to him just because he's being emo. While on the other hand, as Ami said, "It's nice to have people pay attention to you just by yelling", because Ami herself wants people to help her too but hardly anyone would notice except Ryuji whom just barely noticed (refer to previous episode), and you wonder why she is in a bad mood?
-It feels like since Sumire is the cause of Yuusaku's attitude, they should of reflected more on her.
It's not even the end of the arc yet, be patient.
And on a smaller note, Ami's friends kept refering Kitamura to as "Maruo." (Atleast from the subs I watched) I was thinking that they call him Mauro since that sounds like Marimo. Marimo = Green Algae. Yet when they try to dye his hair back, you notice that they plan to use black dye. Was there any reason for the name change or what?
Maruo is a reference to the anime character in Chibi Maruko-chan Maruo Suneo, who is basically Mr. Perfect-class president-goodie-two-shoes just like Kitamura is and hence the people call him that, it's got nothing to do with Marimo.
Liddo-kun
2009-01-16, 08:07
Thouroughly enjoyed watching episode 15, there's just a little bit of everyone and a lot about Kitamura and Taiga on this episode.
Ami frowns when the council president says she's disappointed at Kitamura, shows that Ami cares for Kitamura (as a friend) because she doesn't like someone saying bad things about him. A little about Minori too... she thinks of herself as "haughty" and "unfair" (watched Shukumei's subs) I wonder why?
For Kitamura's situation, I think there's something the student council president wants him to do but he can't do it.
Eventhough he's depressed, I like how he still tries to be kind, like how he ate the burnt egg that Taiga cooked. I hope things will get better for him later on.
Taiga is doing her best to cheer up Kitamura, I kind of expected her to do that.
What I didn't expect was that she would really be bothered that Kitamura wasn't cheered up, I realized on this episode that Taiga really likes Kitamura from the bottom of her heart and it's not just a simple crush. The comparison Taiga made about the distance of the stars with distnace in people's relationships also surprised me, she can be perceptive if she wants too. :)
*can't wait for next episode http://www.thebenevolent.net/imghost/files/uocknykwm68bo78jlb.gif (http://www.thebenevolent.net/imghost/)
typhonsentra
2009-01-16, 08:13
It goes both ways - she could be lying in vol6 or lying later during the confession. However her actions in the later arc (Christmas, school trips etc) and the nature of the confession supports what she said later being the truth, rather than the former being true, making her actions in volume 6 going in conflict to what she said she wants to do and thus make that scene out of place.
The way this conversation with Ryuuji has been described this sounds so strange and convoluted, who talks like that? It's actually one of the reasons I disagree with Nemo about Kitamura in this particular story, his rationalization for what he's doing really humanized him for me because it seemed like something someone his age would really do when they get depressed. It's cliche, it's supposed to be. The characters even say so, he's a nerd who doesn't know how to rebel properly. Ami on the other hand, dunno how I'm going to be able to sympathize with her. It's a damn shame too because up to this point she's probably been my favorite character.
Led_Zeppelin
2009-01-16, 08:29
Ho to all...
Well i think that kitamura reactions it`s a prove that our way to see kitamura was complete wrong...
In the beginning we see kitamura as some mature kid, with responsibilities (as vicepresident of the student council) and we think that was his true self...
But when he talk with sumire, he learn someting (in the anime that is still a mystery) about Sumire, and his reactionts show us something about kitamura...
Becoming "Emo" just show us, that kitamura is no mature at all, is just a kid...
Becouse a Mature person will confrount the situation, kitamura just run away, he tries that his problems resolve by itself just by he becoming "emo"...
Is Like a kid, How don't want to Eat Soup, and stop breathing until his mom/dad say "well what do you wanna eat"...
In this chapter we see that kitamura is still a kid, a stupid kid, who don't know how to confront unexpected thing, the fact that he became "Emo" or a "yanki" is not the main theme, the theme is he believes that "Becoming emo" is the way of resolving his problems...
And that IS something Deep, i think that he becoming "emo" is just a way to see the his truly immature nature...
And i thing he has a good reason for becoming "emo" but no for just what Sumire said to him, but also the implications of what she said (but leave that for the next episode)...
Sorry for my bad english... BYE!!!
HayashiTakara
2009-01-16, 08:32
Is it just me or is the likelihood of a TaigaxRyuuji ending seems to be getting slimer by the episode?
Darknemo2000
2009-01-16, 08:54
There's a fundamental flaw to your stance, Darknemo2000... the more information we have on something, the better our perception of that something turns out to be. It's just a matter of depth perception (not the visual kind, by the way) - and a factual one, at that.
Now, you can discount that information all you want, but more information about a character does, indeed, add to that character's depth. If you don't think it's all that relevant to the way the character behaves or whatever, well, that's another matter entirely. :heh:
It depends on what you call character depth. If background info on that character is depth then Ranma or Goku must be one of your greatest models of characters depth.
I count depth not as a background information but actually how profound the called info makes the character to be. After all there are cases where we get a lot of info about characters background but it still doenst create a very deep or realistic charcter with whom one could easily empathize with.
So it is not a flaw in my position but rather my opinion, which you call flow based... on your own opinion, which is not better or worse than mine, and which will turn out into another sparring without any conclusion anyway.
typhonsentra, I do not think it really humanizes him. To do that you would need to make charcter realistic, for me Kitamura's acts are not that unrealistic (even considering the teenage age, you have to remember that not that many teenagers tend to overact as this). Again this is my opinion but I feel that the tension constructed in here feels too forced, even if we take his age into account.
Now if he would be made as a realistic character to begin with then yes, but he is far from that and one hastily thrown flow hardly make him deeper because he still looks artificiial (like most harem leads) and his problems look like that as well. Again this is my opinion (I now will need to add this to me every sentence so taht poeple do not think that I am making it into objective sentence).
Is it just me or is the likelihood of a TaigaxRyuuji ending seems to be getting slimer by the episode?
Thats one of the thing I do not like too much in the series. Romantical build of RyuujixTaiga is very poor and yet the author wants them to be a romatically involved pairing. For me it looks better if they were to remain soul buddies, and Ryuuji would find his happiness with Ami (or Maybe Minori, is she would change her ways of acting). Romantically TaigaxRyuuji just do not look solid enough, tahts why it can make you question the likeness of such ending. But at least from what it looks the author wants it to be this way...
physics223
2009-01-16, 09:03
Is it just me or is the likelihood of a TaigaxRyuuji ending seems to be getting slimer by the episode?
It's actually getting more and more certain. Because as much as I dislike Taiga for being a bitch, I don't think she's evil and I also think her bitchiness is simply to mask her vulnerability. Sooner or later she will come to see that Ryuuji has always been there for her, and her loyalties will change. Crushes are mere periods of temporary infatuation; true love is established on sacrifice and timelessness, and Taiga will see it for herself.
There's just no arguing with you, is there, Darknemo2000? :)
It's not an opinion: more factual information adds to the perception of something. End of story. You're debating the merits of said information and whether they are relevant to your opinion on whatever the relevant subject is. Oh, well... I'm off. :heh:
Darknemo2000
2009-01-16, 09:17
It is not a fact that more information adds to perception of something. You are overassuming some things. Sometimes more information destabilizes perception of something and make it more shallow then the perfection with the less information. Yes more information can actually be more harmful and misleading than the similar information with less of actual info.
In modern world we do suffer from too much of information whivch harms our perception of the things and their depth. Baurdillard has a few analytic books regarding the modernism in our society and the information perception, pretty good if you'd ignore some of his rather crazy theories.
You are once again putting your opinion and saying it is objective fact while it is eternally subjective. Juts like mine mind, but you should really look at what you yourself try to express and if it really is objective. In most case, if you'd look deeper you will find a lot of subjectivity in seemingly objective facts.
HayashiTakara
2009-01-16, 09:21
Its the fact that Taiga is basically blind to Ryuuji. Her saying "Kitamura-kun is always there for me, when no one else is" is complete bull that made me wanna puke.
houkoholic
2009-01-16, 09:37
The way this conversation with Ryuuji has been described this sounds so strange and convoluted, who talks like that?
Of course Ami has her own reasons for that particular conversation, but going into details is beyond the scope of this thread.
It is not a fact that more information adds to perception of something. You are overassuming some things. Sometimes more information destabilizes perception of something and make it more shallow then the perfection with the less information. Yes more information can actually be more harmful and misleading than the similar information with less of actual info.
In modern world we do suffer from too much of information whivch harms our perception of the things and their depth. Baurdillard has a few analytic books regarding the modernism in our society and the information perception, pretty good if you'd ignore some of his rather crazy theories.
You are once again putting your opinion and saying it is objective fact while it is eternally subjective. Juts like mine mind, but you should really look at what you yourself try to express and if it really is objective. In most case, if you'd look deeper you will find a lot of subjectivity in seemingly objective facts.
Hmmm... erm... I... you mean there's no objectiveness anywhere? :twitch:
Look, you stick with your post-modernist theories and I'll stick with my academic views that the more we know about something, the more we know about something. This topic has become officially too weird for me. See ya!
Sinestra
2009-01-16, 10:15
I will admit i was not expecting Kitamura to basically have a nervous break down over what transpired between him and the Student Council Prez. Although i really have a feeling about what really happened i will have to confirm with the novels because Kitamura's behavior actually is making sense to me. Everyone reacts differently to situations the seemingly strong willed Kitamura crumbled when something didnt go his way. The result is him acting out dyeing his hair, quitting the student council, screaming and yelling to get out his frustration. Though this is not the way i would handle a situation i am also not teenager prone to random outburst of emotion. Kitamura's scenes showed me personally he is human which i think through all his other interaction is something was missed. The perception that he had everything together was shattered as he could not handle even one piece of news shows just how human he is.
Do i think he acted his age absolutely do i think it was over the top no not really it was way to get the point across that something was eating him up inside. Im fairly certain that whatever happened between the two involved something the Prez wanted him to do and also maybe a confession which ended badly for Kitamura. But i guess we will find out in the next episode. Either way it was obvious that she had high expectations for him and his actions letting her down. She called him him stupid and a waste of time and when Ami confronted her about her about it, her reply made it all more obvious that something personal transpired between her and Kitamura. I felt the emotions were portrayed fluently and coherently i recognize that some people thought many scenes were contrived and Emo i however had no such feelings towards any of the scenes.
For the second time we see Taiga burst into tears. This time its over her inability to help Kitamura and understand exactly what his pain is hence her saying "im no good" Her feelings for Kitamura are still there but i have noticed a slight change in how she deals with him its ever so slight . She did manage to irritate me with her "Kitamura-kun has always been there for me" while Ryu is standing right next to her she is very blinded by her infatuation sometimes. but for those who think that a TaigaxRyu ending is moving further and further away dont count on it there is plenty of evidence to support that the battle is not even halfway over. Taiga's intuition about Kitamura's problems stemming from the the Student Council prez is not far off which prompted her to think the only way to fix the problem is remove him from her side. This is the basis of Taiga's thinking about most things remove it and it will be ok. Though that thinking is not exactly flawed it does not always work especially in this situation where there is evidence to support that Kitamura has feelings for his sempai.
I found Minorin speech to Ryu interesting as she once again shows that she can be quite intelligent and thoughtful about situations. However she herself does not know that much about Ami as well. Anyhow at least there was some screen time involving Ami even though i really wish they stop pushing her character to the side because she is a very interesting and dynamic character with lots of range as i find Minorin the same in most episodes which does not get very interested in her at all.
Over a very good episode the story is moving maybe not as fast as some would like. But imo JC.Staff is on the right track with progression and character development hopefully the direction stays fluid and does not try to go to some alternate world of forced drama.
8/10
Darknemo2000
2009-01-16, 10:25
Hmmm... erm... I... you mean there's no objectiveness anywhere? :twitch:
Look, you stick with your post-modernist theories and I'll stick with my academic views that the more we know about something, the more we know about something. This topic has become officially too weird for me. See ya!
Can you really point out something objective that would go beyond solipsism? If so then there are ultimately objective thing yet so far I never heard of such thing.
You just have to believe that some things are objective - like saying 2+2=4 but even there the individual perception of the mathematical action exists.
And you should know that solipsism is not really post-modern. Unless you are saying that the first Cynics (note Cynics as philosophical school, not in casual meaning of cynics) since Socrates times where post-modern, or Descrates... which I hope you do not.
The question of objectiveness is still disputed as in what is really objective and can such thing be as objectiveness there. Some, like Nietzsche believed such phenomena as objectiveness non existant, some tried to defeat the solipsism (aka Descrates and his demiurg) with belief....
Basically it is the way, not to go mad, you just have to assume and believe some things to be objective even if you really look at deep enough you will see that what we held to be objective is really subjective, be it formula's or laws.
But again it wasn't what I was trying to point out with my posts. I was trying to say that you are assuming too much saying that it is a fact that more info deepens ones understanding of a certain thing and action - it really is not a fact, and can be disputed, specially in modern world where information has to be limited for us to understand few things better.
But lets go back to Kitamura, lol.
If you want you can come to some philosophy forums to discuss this theme, as objectiveness is one of those eternal problems that no one found an answer to so far (or in this case a proof that it really exists).
Led_Zeppelin
2009-01-16, 10:33
Over a very good episode the story is moving maybe not as fast as some would like. But imo JC.Staff is on the right track with progression and character development hopefully the direction stays fluid and does not try to go to some alternate world of forced drama.
8/10
Well i agree with you...
But the story was always (at least for me) too rash, for me the series is too fast, they eat each light novel in 2 chapters (except for 5 in 3 and 6 in 2 1/2)...
But hey is just my opinion... :)
yeah the pace is going too fast and some times you may feel that the eps are'nt so connected but it's good so far :confused:
Sinestra
2009-01-16, 11:34
yeah the pace is going too fast and some times you may feel that the eps are'nt so connected but it's good so far :confused:
I dont have the feeling the episodes arent so connected. I mean its everyday life do people feel disconnected in their own lives day to day. I just look at it as telling a story day by day in which different events occur. But everyone percieves story progression differently just like how some think the anime is moving too fast and then there are others who do not feel it is so. Majority of the novel readers feel the story is moving too fast iv noticed but there is always going to be some type of problem when creating an anime adaption from manga you cant please everyone. I mean how many times do we hear the manga/novel is so much better a day around here?
Darknemo2000
2009-01-16, 11:38
I mean how many times do we hear the manga/novel is so much better a day around here?
Many many many times, though there are pleasant exceptions like Kannagi where anime is better than the manga (though in Kannagi's case manga wasnt something spectacular to begin with).
I feel like forcing some of you to attend a Kalman filtering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalman_filter) class to get a clue about how incoming information is used to build and adjust internal models of the outside world. And that consensus on shared information is used to develop an "objective" view of reality. It *has* to be that way or, yeah, otherwise its just solipsism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism) all the way down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_(philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_%28philosophy))
But yes... I can think of a few anime that ended up being more entertaining than the source material (for me at least). But its a fairly rare thing...
and NONE of this has barely anything to do with the discussion of episode 15.:eyebrow:
Sinestra
2009-01-16, 14:57
Many many many times, though there are pleasant exceptions like Kannagi where anime is better than the manga (though in Kannagi's case manga wasnt something spectacular to begin with).
Well my point was not weather the novel or the anime pacing is better. I thought episode 15's progression was good character development and depth was decent and everyone got a little screen time to show what their feelings were concerning events surrounding Kitamura. I just get a little irritated when people say the manga is better they should follow the pacing of the manga. Its an anime the progression is going to be different depending time alloted for a series to run its course. But i will stop there since im off topic a little but imo episode 15's progression was right on.
Baka Ronin
2009-01-16, 18:18
Arguing over the internet is like winning the special Olympics. In the end, you're still retarded. I wont exclude myself from this either because I am guilty of it as well. lol.
As for this episode I was genuinely shocked that Kitamura freaked out so bad. He seemed to be the one who was always in perfect control. I would very much like to see what happened with his conversation with Sumire. It had to be something very shocking.
In the end, Taiga running for prez was pretty cute, but I am not sure what message she intends to send by doing so. Any thoughts?
I was merely expressing how I feel about people's negative comments. In my usual blunt manner.
^ Ditto.
No need for making elephants out of nothing. ;)
germanturkey
2009-01-16, 21:23
Lack of Ami makes me sad... I haven't read the novels, but it seems like she supposedly plays a big part but it was all cut? wtf? anywho, i'm really interested in what the President said to Kitamura. though i'm sure it'll be revealed later on.
and Ya-chan was great this ep!
animeboy12
2009-01-16, 22:55
I must say I thought I wouldn't like this anime because of the tsundere element(which is usually an annoyance in must anime) but here I am on the 15th episode my only complaint is the pace of the relationship is so slow.
Interesting episode, lots of insight from the various characters as well as obviously teenage confusion.
Taiga's roar into her candidacy had some disturbing parallels with Sumire's no-nonsense nature :)
I've seen Kitamura's sort of crisis act out in real life.... someone who's just dripping with the expectations of everyone else (notice every adult just assumes he's going to be prez). Sometimes the "favored one" rebels against it -- rather like the groomed crown prince who runs away with the gypsies rather than assume his role. Notice how desperately Kitamura wanted to have "fun" - something he rarely gets to do.
Interesting that Yachan was right in step with his dad about Kitamura getting "back in step" -- and she's not exactly a round peg in a round hole herself.
Anyway.... interesting little episode. I'll look forward to reading the related novel sections to see what this obviously light sketch version was trying to portray since just taking it as it is - I'm enjoying what I'm seeing. I keep thinking of Mahoraba: Heartful Days. I *thoroughly* enjoyed the series -- and then I read the manga which just crested my opinion of the story even higher.
typhonsentra
2009-01-17, 06:18
I must say I thought I wouldn't like this anime because of the tsundere element(which is usually an annoyance in must anime) but here I am on the 15th episode my only complaint is the pace of the relationship is so slow.
I'm so grateful they actually developed her character rather than have Ryuuji always be her "Baka Inu" like on other similar shows.
xxfate13
2009-01-17, 07:06
i was disappointed that ami's part was cut not because i like her (though i really do, because of her character, and not because of her looks) but because the part that was taken out could be treated as another character development. Also, this part
where takasu and minorin had a longer conversation on their way to kitamura's residence, about waiting to understand minorin more and accepting her for who she really is because it had put forth another development in their relationship, kinda clearing things out.
but i guess, the creators are thinking of molding the plot towards a better end (with only 10eps remaing? am i right?) rather than putting a messy relationship between them all. i guess they are equalizing the time and manner how each character develops so they put forth and shaft scenes that would suit each character. That is to further strengthen the role that each one would take towards the ending.
and about kitamura's actions.. i have a part in the novel which he said exactly that i think justifies his actions.. he's a child, like there's a little like that in everyone of us.. i'm not a kitamura fan but i also don't dislike his character. i haven't read yet the kitamura discussion page so i guess i'll head there next ^^
with the current speed of the story, i think that kitamura arc will end next episode..
wistfulloner
2009-01-17, 12:27
with the current speed of the story, i think that kitamura arc will end next episode..
You might be right after all. If they can cover several novel chapters in one episode, I don't see how Taiga's little "election drive" won't end by the next one. The novel basically goes into much detail, like telling how Taiga can't opt out in case Kitamura still refuses, but in the anime it's not necessary considering how everything is going so fast. They might add these as the very small "minor details" though.
Better for us, we can stop worrying about this arc possibly lingering on and on for a few more pointless episodes and instead continue to another dilemma.
BigJimmy
2009-01-17, 15:01
Interesting that Yachan was right in step with his dad about Kitamura getting "back in step" -- and she's not exactly a round peg in a round hole herself.
That's the one thing that annoyed me this episode. Ya-chan's always been portrayed as a somewhat ditzy, yet ultimately kind and wise person. And yet instead of helping Kitamura get his head together, her solution is to hold him down, dye his hair black again, and ship him off home. It's kinda blunt and uncaring considering the character.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-17, 15:03
You might be right after all. If they can cover several novel chapters in one episode, I don't see how Taiga's little "election drive" won't end by the next one. The novel basically goes into much detail, like telling how Taiga can't opt out in case Kitamura still refuses, but in the anime it's not necessary considering how everything is going so fast. They might add these as the very small "minor details" though.
Better for us, we can stop worrying about this arc possibly lingering on and on for a few more pointless episodes and instead continue to another dilemma.
And then we can get to Volume 7. Yaaaaaaaay!
typhonsentra
2009-01-17, 15:08
According to the wiki episode listings, the next episode will indeed end this arc, the next episode after this has a title that implies a Christmas theme.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-17, 15:25
According to the wiki episode listings, the next episode will indeed end this arc, the next episode after this has a title that implies a Christmas theme.
So, Volume 7, just like I said.
Good, we're getting what I've heard is probably the best story, heh heh.
Hope to god they do it well.
Oh, God, every time I remember Yachan's eviction of the noisy brats I burst out laughing... :heh:
But just like Vexx and BigJimmy, I was a little disconcerted about her affinity with Kitamura's parents. Too out of the blue? Or they could share a connection, like they're all old friends or something? It bugged me a little, I guess...
Not that Yasuko doesn't act maturely, sometimes - the way she acknowledges Taiga as part of her family (and how she saw through her father's facade), while something a child could do, might actually denote some sort of higher level awareness that most adults posses.
Oh, God, every time I remember Yachan's eviction of the noisy brats I burst out laughing... :heh:
But just like Vexx and BigJimmy, I was a little disconcerted about her affinity with Kitamura's parents. Too out of the blue? Or they could share a connection, like they're all old friends or something? It bugged me a little, I guess...
Not that Yasuko doesn't act maturely, sometimes - the way she acknowledges Taiga as part of her family (and how she saw through her father's facade), while something a child could do, might actually denote some sort of higher level awareness that most adults posses.
I think they are supossed to be best buddies since childhood, IIRC this was addressed in episode 1 but only as a comment.
I think they are supossed to be best buddies since childhood, IIRC this was addressed in episode 1 but only as a comment.
It was? I really don't remember it either from the anime or the novels... Hmmm... Maybe it's time to re-read and re-watch everything? :D
typhonsentra
2009-01-17, 16:33
I don't think they're supposed to be childhood friends. Pretty sure they met the previous year.
It was? I really don't remember it either from the anime or the novels... Hmmm... Maybe it's time to re-read and re-watch everything? :D
I don't think they're supposed to be childhood friends. Pretty sure they met the previous year.
mmm... Now, I'm doubting it myself. Probably, I'm mixing it with something else, re-read is necessary. However, they are still best friends since it is addressed in the sixth volume of the novels that I'm reading right now.
I suspect Kitamura's father (which we haven't met) was just able to communicate his concern and desperation to Yachan. They may actually know each other at least formally from a parent's day at school???
I do remember the parents in the mixed economic neighborhood I grew up in had quite a social network in place to keep an eye on kids and keep them in line. That's something that only recently has faded in so-called 'modern America' and that fading has almost certainly contributed to delinquency rates.
This is all rationalization to some extent .... as far as the anime goes, its a bit of a weak point in the plot progression.
And yes, the "Yachan eviction" was probably her finest moment, especially as it accentuated how she looks when glomming on Taiga or when she stalked Kitamura with the hair dye.
chaosprophet
2009-01-18, 06:58
This was a good episode but seemes (by a novel reader POV) more rushed then others... maybe because lots of interesting thing happened in those chapter.
Ya-chan and Kitamura parents relationship is another thing they cut from the novel.
xxfate13
2009-01-18, 08:21
This was a good episode but seemes (by a novel reader POV) more rushed then others... maybe because lots of interesting thing happened in those chapter.
Ya-chan and Kitamura parents relationship is another thing they cut from the novel.
my sentiments exactly, this part was rushed compared to the previous episodes/light-novel comparison.
in my point of view, ya-chan only did the thing that she thought is right, to dye kitamura's hair black again, since it's the root of their current problem, it's what everyone sees. (the main reason why he dyed his hair gold is not yet known ).
as a parent who would force his child to do the right thing, it's what every parent does. (although they, parents, are sometimes wrong because some things cannot be forced) but that's just what she did. It's not whether it was wrong or right but her "right" to do as a parent who only wants best for their child. i hope you get what i mean.. ^^
BigJimmy
2009-01-18, 10:20
But just like Vexx and BigJimmy, I was a little disconcerted about her affinity with Kitamura's parents. Too out of the blue? Or they could share a connection, like they're all old friends or something? It bugged me a little, I guess...
I'm not doubting her affinity, it's just something parents of childhood freinds seem to have. It's her methods I doubt. I expected her to become all motherly and coax the reason for his behaviour out of him through kindness, not use the "you will obey!" approach. It was jarring. Unless she REALLY wanted payback for her ruined sleep. :uhoh:
typhonsentra
2009-01-18, 15:04
It's the parents of his friend. Does it really need much of an explanation?
SkoolRumble4Ya
2009-01-18, 18:04
Funny episode especially the first part when Kitamura echoe his voice. He shouldn't be acting like a kid he should man up and deal with whatever problem he's having.
It's the parents of his friend. Does it really need much of an explanation?
Actually, yes, it does. You don't think Yasuko would have behaved the same way if it was one of Taiga's parents, do you?
typhonsentra
2009-01-18, 23:23
Actually, yes, it does. You don't think Yasuko would have behaved the same way if it was one of Taiga's parents, do you?
By parents you mean her father? Because I don't think she has a problem with the other. If you need more info for why she goes along with what the parents asked, she knows Yuusaku's mother and has a deal with her in case there's ever a problem like this where one of their kids run away from home. It wasn't covered in the anime when Yuusaku showed up at the house in the anime, they skipped it.
kk2extreme
2009-01-18, 23:51
i would so vote for taiga as the new president, we need change now :D
in my point of view, ya-chan only did the thing that she thought is right, to dye kitamura's hair black again, ean.. ^^
I thought his hair was green :confused:.
i would so vote for taiga as the new president, we need change now :D
Somehow, I'm reminded of the Yankee to Megane-chan manga. It'd prob be hilarious(for the moment anyways) for them to be the student council pres :).
Anyway, though I felt this way at the beg of the series, this ep gives an impression that Ryuuji doesn't deeply care about Kitamura like he does for the girls. I mean, in the beg of the ep, when the girls have this worried look on their faces, he acts as if it's no big deal. I get the feeling if Kitamura hadn't come over Ryuuji's house, Ryuuji wouldn't have the initiative to try and help him out.
And Kihara def has a thing for Kitamura.
xxfate13
2009-01-19, 03:07
ara, my bad, sorry, hahaha.. yep, it's kinda green, i thought of kitamura in the manga where everything is almost always black..:heh:
yep, there's a lot more explanation in the light novel.. about their parents' relationship.
and it was a big responsibility for both parties.
and as i have said before, this episode was the one with the most shafted scenes
when compared to the LN.
@frubam
maybe because, as his bestfriend, the kitamura he knows would be able to go back to normal, he trusts him that much.
and also, didn't he went to kitamura's residence to check on kitamura?
i think he is also worried but he knows that there is no use making a fuss over it at that moment
so he chose to personally go to kitamura in the afternoon.
that's just what i thought. ^^
Ya-chan is awesome.
Whether it's kicking out the kids so she can get some sleep, or threatening Kitamura with hair dye, Ya-chan is awesome.
We still haven't found out what Sumire said that Kitamura is all broken up about, maybe more will be revealed next episode.
Taiga's presidential campaign seems to draw from their roles in the wrestling match, especially the bit you see in the trailer for the next episode - capes and all!
The scarf scene... The scarf scene strongly reminded me of another scene involving a scarf in another series which has been mentioned before in these threads.
typhonsentra
2009-01-20, 08:44
Oh, I didn't notice the cape-wrestling match connection. Good one!
Sinfully Naomi
2009-01-20, 14:22
In this episode Taiga seemed to be less mean to Ryuuji. Not just because Kitamura was at his house, but she just seemed a little nicer to me.
In this episode Taiga seemed to be less mean to Ryuuji. Not just because Kitamura was at his house, but she just seemed a little nicer to me.
It's the impressive character development of our beloved little tsundere.
Saber447
2009-01-21, 00:43
I don't get it... So it's established that Kitamura doesn't want to be the new SCP and then goes on to do his thing the rest of the episode. I'm wondering why... Because the only clue I can recall is that Kanou simply said she wanted to talk to him towards the end of the last episode. It did not look like a confession that Kitamura started, as Kanou started the conversation. Yet I've been seeing posts lately that say he's like this because he did confess and was turned down. Did I miss something 1-2 episodes back? Or...
Or is that what really happened in the novels? And we just need to wait an episode or two for it to come to light and resolve?
In the scene between Kitamura and Sumire, he actually *starts to say something but then she cuts him off with her own topic -- then we cut away before anything is revealed.
This series seems to delight in events that only make sense later (as divulged in flashbacks or exposition). This is more of the same.
Saber447
2009-01-21, 01:18
Oh ok, makes sense. I totally forgot that writers would do that. That, and my memory of the this ep slowly fades away as each day passes... Guess the only thing that's left is to wait for the new ep and see if anything gets cleared up.
Cosmic Eagle
2009-01-22, 11:11
Nicely done episode. More Minorin development, Ami's intentions, hinted at for long are now finally made clear and Kitamura.....well the stress seems to have finally got him.
SwiftStrike
2009-01-22, 12:49
so..dying your hair blonde signifies what?
so..dying your hair blonde signifies what?
Dying your hair AT ALL in Japanese culture takes you out of the "right thinking success" stream and puts you in an outcast or lesser slot.
Cosmic Eagle
2009-01-23, 01:10
Dying your hair AT ALL in Japanese culture takes you out of the "right thinking success" stream and puts you in an outcast or lesser slot.
But honestly though, they could have done something more significant like have him vandalize stuff because well. Minorin's hair is red and Kanou's is blue.
Unless those are somehow natural of course.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-01-23, 01:18
The hair colors aren't real.
They're to help us differentiate between the characters and draw more attention to them.
So they all actually have black/brown hair, like normal Asians.
But honestly though, they could have done something more significant like have him vandalize stuff because well. Minorin's hair is red and Kanou's is blue.
Unless those are somehow natural of course.
Um, he died his hair in the source material.... he needed something that would immediately set him apart from what he was supposed to be when you looked at him. Its the same effect as a straight-A, church-going-evangelist, Eagle Scout, good boy showing up one day sporting a tattoo on his cheek, smoking, and "666" shaved into his hair. The power clique in Japan is pretty conservative.
There's no question that the "anime standard" haircolor to help differentiate worked against the effect though .... all that matters is that the Japanese viewers 'get it'.
When watching foreign film - part of the job of the viewer is to develop insight into foreign values and ways of thinking. Its kind of like good science fiction forcing one to get outside of their "whats normal" shell.
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