Clannad ~After Story~ - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Clannad ~After Story~ , Episode 15.

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[serenade_beta]

...I hope it is just my imagination, but I could swear a thousand or five or so death flags popped up... :upset:

Still, "Ushio", huh... I understand how they came up with it, but... nn, a bit so-so? (牛尾 牛男 汐?)

[Ithekro]

4chan's been on death watch since, oh....2007. Some just becaue they don't like her.

[aliasxn]

What?! Who is going to die?!

[Manji Midou]

What?! Who is going to die?!


Her.....:upset::upset::upset:
dango.....

[sikvod00]

Some just because they don't like her.

They can throw acid on their faces then.:frustrated:

[SageGaiGar]

lol hateful otaku. I kinda already know what to expect thankfully. Kinda feel like it's still going to hit like a ton of bricks irregardlessly.

[Ithekro]

I do want to see what happens, both in the near future and by the series end...plus the reactions.

[bladeofdarkness]

i get the sense that as of next week i will never be happy again :upset:

[patient_senses]

I better prepare the tissue boxes for next week's episode. I couldn't understand anything and still I had tears in my eyes.

[darry]

i cried in this episode cuz we know whats coming next week :(

[cbatty]

Oh no... I am not looking forward to this... but just like a roadside accident, I wont be able to look away

[serenade_beta]

They can throw acid on their faces then.:frustrated:

Statements like this aren't any better than their statements though.

Her.....:upset::upset::upset:
dango.....

Dangooooooooooooooooo!!!

[darry]

was nice to see them talking about how nagisa got saved, but ye so sad whats coming now

good ending plz kyoani or i wont forgive them for the rest of my life :(

[Proto]

Any episode that makes me cry is an automatic 10.

The moment they decided on Ushio's name moved me. Just a little

The preview voice over was interesting though... it could lead to many possibilities I guess.

[Kaioshin Sama]

They can throw acid on their faces then.:frustrated:

And this is why I don't mess with character fanboys... :uhoh:

[sikvod00]

Statements like this aren't any better than their statements though.


I was joking though, so...

And this is why I don't mess with character fanboys... :uhoh:

Same as above. I forget how hard it is to exhibit humor over the internet. I thought the emoticon and over the top statement would have been enough but whatever.

[Proto]

That's why I have been advocating and making efforts to spread the use of this little thing؟ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_mark). It's the solution to all our sarcasm problems :p

[Leo_Otaku]

I really enjoyed this episode for a few reasons. They included them singing the Dango Daikazoku together. That part was very important to me. I was worried it wouldn't be shown 0_0. I also enjoyed the scene with Aiko talking with Tomoya about the special place. Those are some of the best parts.

I'm sorry but the majority of 4-chan are not even otaku... Can't wait to see how they will portray the next episode and few.

[Myssa Rei]

And this is why I don't mess with character fanboys... :uhoh:

You had been tempting fate a lot in the past though.

As for 4Ch... It's 4Ch. Hate is par for course there, especially for OTP's that don't segue with pairings they support.

*ahem*

Anyway, it does seem that we're heading into a similar scenario to the movie.

[Kaisos Erranon]

That's why I have been advocating and making efforts to spread the use of this little thing؟ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_mark). It's the solution to all our sarcasm problems :p

How the hell do I actually type that? The Irony point thing?

[Isekaijin]

So here it comes. The unavoidable end...

Dammit I didin't want to believe it, until the last second I had the smallest shred of hope that things would somehow turn out for the better.

Well, I guess the only thing left is ask for an OVA with the good end.

[Myssa Rei]

How the hell do I actually type that? The Irony point thing?

I'm wondering about that as well. Maybe there's a convenient ascii code?

*coughs*

Kind of wondering how they're going to pull the transition from the 'default' ending to the 'true ending' though without causing a lot of headscratching from the non-game players...

[Kaisos Erranon]

To be fair, it was confusing in the original game too.

[Mecha_Trueno]

EDIT: oops, forgot spoiler tags:heh:
After watching the preview, I'm surprised no one here has posted hate/fustration comments that Kotomi and Ryou (and probably Kyou as well) will be coming back next week "just for the sake of it"...... or will their appearance actually have some purpose?:confused: Who knows....... guess we'll have to wait till next week:(

[Kaisos Erranon]

The twins showed up in the game at that point too, I believe.

[Manji Midou]

hmm...are we going to get a new ed song?
the upcoming eps and the current song atmosphere wouldn't seem to match...

[cbatty]

AQS subs are out...
http://a.scarywater.net/aquastar/CLANNAD_AFTER%20STORY_15_PAS_%5BAQS%5D%5BSprocket% 5D%5BTWH%5D%5BFEFDBBD2%5D.avi.torrent

[Ithekro]

I wonder how they will use Kotomi-chan.

[Myssa Rei]

I wonder how they will use Kotomi-chan.
NOT as a Fuuko stand-in this time around, methinks. ;)

[Proto]

People, people, rmemeber to control yourselves and avoid future event spoilers.

@Mecha_Trueno et al

Just having a pair of lines in the preview is not enough guarantee to appearing in the next episode. Rather, take what they said in context. That's what I did at least.

[cbatty]

I liked the theme that was highlighted this week about family sticking together and working through adversity relying on each other for support. This is a theme that gets discounted so much in society today - i.e. self reliance is good. I am not advocating dependence though, rather interdependence. This is something that this episode shows well - from Tomoya and Nagisa, to Akio and Sanae, and even the mid wife to a lesser extent. Akio's reassurance to Tomoya, that he wasn't alone in this, that he was family was particularly moving.

However I think the episodes will be hard to watch from now on...

[Myssa Rei]

However I think the episodes will be hard to watch from now on...

Understatement. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Understatement)

[Kristen]

So, we patiently wait for next week's episode.

This episode was a very good portrayal of the events leading up to childbirth. I liked Nagisa's continual stubborn attitude. I leaped for joy that they showed Akio's place. I smiled when they named the child "Ushio". And I cried when they showed the preview.

[Kinny Riddle]

Ushio - The name of Tomoya and Nagisa's child, which has often been used as a signal for invoking the "instant infraction" on careless users by trigger happy mods at every single mention of it, can now finally be uttered freely. :cool: (But beware, the baby's gender is still considered spoiler bait by these mods for now. Though Kyo-Ani has left plenty of hints as to what Ushio's gender will be in the OP and ED of both series. )

While it is not completely clear, even in the game, Akio's "special place", where he prayed to the powers that be to "save Nagisa" may have something to do with the "Illusionary World" and the light orbs, considering there's some mystical quality in that place. And right now, that mystical place is now being sullied by the construction of a new hospital, which might significantly affect Nagisa in a supernatural way.

Thinking about it, that "place" may also be the "portal" to the "alternate dimension" that Kotomi's scientist parents discovered, but died before they could reveal it.

Hearing Kotomi and Ryou's voice in the preview may hint that they may be returning to visit Nagisa in her bed.

(PS LOL at "Akki" freaking out at the prospect at being called "gramps".

PPS More LOL at the screen switching to the title screen as Yoshino goes into his usual philosophical mood when commenting on Tomoya becoming a father. )

[MeoTwister5]

So after today, we can use "Ushio" without the ban hammer hitting our nether regions?

I still haven't seen it subbed dammit. My internet is being retarded.

[TooPurePureBoy]

Ya, I just shed tears three times in one episode. Only Kyoani does this to me. Damn them.

So ya, I've never played the game and I haven't read any spoilers but it seems pretty obvious what could happen if Kyoani decides to go the depressing route.

I'll be curious to see if Tomoya turns into his father if Nagisa does end up dying. It would be ironic if Tomoya figures out that his dad acted that way because of something that happened between him and his mother. I've always wondered why his dad seems so lifeless, but imagining what Tomoya would be like without Nagisa (even with a child, some people (usually fathers) tend to never love their child as much as they love their spouse) though I do tend to think Tomoya is made of stronger stuff than his father, losing a person like Nagisa would be devastating. :upset:

[Manji Midou]

Next ep is going to hit me harder then the entire series of Air, l have invested so much time into this characters...that it will certainly hurt....and if they put in a solid insert song...:(

[Ascaloth]

Episode 15 article is up:

[RIUVA] CLANNAD ~After Story~, Episode 15 (http://www.riuva.com/?p=1363)

I have to confess, this being a lead-in episode I tried to find a reason to restrict it to a 9.....and I can't. 10/10.

[TenkenXD]

Mmm... this episode dug up some really good memories of when i first played the game.

GAAAAHHH!!! is all that i can say (and what i first said when playing through the first time) for next episode...

[kininku buster]

Really good episode but damn I know I'm going to be in one hell of an emotional roller coaster ride next week.

[xris]

Please remember, NO spoilers! As clearly stated in the opening post of episode discussion threads, you may not post spoilers of any sort. Even if you are just speculating, then this thread is the wrong place to do so when it comes to spoilers.

If you want to speculate, fine, but please use one of the Speculation threads. Only post in the episode discussion threads if you want to discuss the actual episode!

Please read the Spoiler Policy (http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?faq=animesuki_faq#faq_spoilerpolicy).

[Rice_slayer]

Wish I would have known that, just discussing on how this episode made me feel and what might come in the next one seeing the preview and all. I loved this one, very happy feel on the beach at the end at least.

[Mecha_Trueno]

People, people, rmemeber to control yourselves and avoid future event spoilers.

@Mecha_Trueno et al

Just having a pair of lines in the preview is not enough guarantee to appearing in the next episode. Rather, take what they said in context. That's what I did at least.Really? But haven't the lines in the previews ALWAYS been direct quotes from the next episode?

btw, I haven't played the game so I have no idea what's coming ahead. Therefore the only spoilers I can give is content from the episode before the subs are released.

As for future events, I'm still wondering if something crazy is gonna happen and Ryou becomes a tsundere:heh: (look at the ED, she's wearing the over-knee socks)

[Vegard Aune]

I honestly think this was the closest I've come to actually crying while watching anime... EVER. Once again, this series manages to completely exceed my already sky-high expectations, and if this goes on, the rating 10/10 might end up becoming an understatement for how utterly amazing this show is. The episode gets a 10/10 from me, and depending on next week's episode, I just might bump up the actual show's rating to that too.

And the ending is still a huge annoyance amidst this perfection. I pretty much skip it every single time now.

[Nukerjsr]

Is anyone else wondering how they are going to stretch the rest of the series for 8-10 episodes?

[Divini]

The scene on the beach with Nagisa and Tomoya making a promise, for the 3 to go to the beach together next year was soooo....

very very..... heartbreaking :upset:

It's as if the couple knows that they can't fulfill their promise, yet they fight on desperately, clinging on to a thread of hope...

T_T

[darry]

Is anyone else wondering how they are going to stretch the rest of the series for 8-10 episodes?

dont worry lol theres enough :)

[MeoTwister5]

Promises. Freaking promises. You want to hope they can keep it, but that nagging voice og gaming experience tells you otherwise.

Blargh.

----------------

Most of the professors at medical school are OB-Gyns, and they always said that no matter how routine or everyday deliveries are, it's almost always a terrifiying ordeal, so much so for the doctors. People give birth everyday, yet for a commonplace event, the statistics are almost scary. Birth is almost always considered a major surgery that requires an absolute amount of paitence, preparation and skill. One of said professors is the top deliverying OB in the hospital yet she admits that everytime she delivers a child, she's nervous and has to take some time to calm her nerves.

One can only imagine how hard it is for the mother. With complications like Placenta previa, ectopic pregnancies and Caesarian sections and the like, we men cannot accurately comprehend what childbirth is like.

Morning sickness. A complication due to the metabolic stress and imbalance placed upon the mother as the fetus siphons nutrients. A commonplace event for all pregnancies. Supplements like vitamins and iron are usually given to an expectant mother in the first trimester. Watching Nagisa lie on the futon struggling with the symptoms harks back to the day when she used to be sick all the time, but now it's for a much more serious reason. I'm actually wondering why he's not giving her supplements but... well...

Giving birth at home really isn't as foreign an event as everyone may think. As the show has said, the most important aspect for safe delivery is not all the machines and tubes and cables, but for the mother's (and therefore baby's) relaxed state, and where else can you do that than at home? Sure enough Nagisa isn't as healthy as everyone else, but she needs to be as relaxed as possible. Yagi-san as the midwife will be there after all, and they are trained for home deliveries.

But still... freaking flags...

"But even if something were to happen to me..."

FFS Nagisa! Don't freaking say that! He may smile, but we know that Tomoya is wracked with worry as it is. Father's I hear tend to get paranoid in situations like this, but for Tomoya it gets further amplified.:upset:

"Dango Daikazoku!"

First cry point of the episode. Derived from Nagisa's theme, it is a beautiful song in it's own right. They sit together as a family talking about the baby as Nagisa slowly starts to sing. Tomoya used to hate that song, but now he sings along with the family. The rest of the song kicks in. Dango Daikazoku. The song of a big familiy's happiness, the hope of every family. Aristotle and Plato pretty much had it right. This has been something every character has been trying to reach since that day on the bottom of the hill. Happiness is the ultimate goal of ever human being.

Much more, however, is someone to share this happiness with...

"I had a premonition." "Because you're protecting me Tomoya-kun..."

Cry point two. If they can't make it any more obvious just how bad her health is, then you need to get your brain checked. The downward spiral begins here. The lines beneath Tomoya's lower eyelids is a sign of how much worry and stress he's coping with. He copes with it gladly, but as he says so himself, he already has premonitions and feelings of dread for the events to come.

So as for the idea of abortion... well I'll not get into a moral and ethical considerations of this issue. What they speak of is therapeutic abortion, aborting the fetus as it's presence and delivery poses a life-threatening risk to the mother. Don't think of such as easy, even the healthiest of mothers have died on the delivery table. Delivery is never a sure-shot affair. Considering that she isn't the healthiest of mothers, this is one of the situations where I would agree that abortion is a valid option...

And Nagisa would have none of that. Maybe she's foolish, maybe she's brave, but she is strong. She replies without hesitation that she wants to deliver their child no matter what. Ever so slowly we see Tomoya falling into the pits of despair. Fear, worry, anxiety all mix together as the life of the one he loves hangs in the balance. What was once supposed to be a moment of joy transfigures into a moment of dread and terror.

"This is my secret place."

Cry point number three.

And so the tale of the past continues. I think the title of this track is "Last Regrets" but I'm not sure. Akio, in his moment of despair, brings the dying Nagisa to his secret place, praying to the silent God for a miracle. As the sunrise comes, the silent God grants his miracle. The one of many, I hope.

"We're family. We help each other out."

By nature of the family's bonds, only they can help you in times of crisis. By virtue of this statement and even by this statement alone, I hereby name Akio the most awesome anime father EVAR.

"How about Ushio?"

Cry point number four. Honestly I don't think I ever wept this much, or maybe as much as Tomoya punching the wall.

At least, now we can say her name without the threat of the banhammer heh.

Ushio, the waves of the water upon the beach. Nagisa means the beach more or less. I leave the interpretation of naming symbolism to you. Even though Nagisa explained why she wanted that name, I think it means much more than what he said. Even though I played the game I still can't find the deeper meaning behind the naming, though I'm sure it's there somewhere.

"Let's go to the beach together next year. Three of us. Promise me."

I pretty much broke down at this point. Not by the words, but by that which KyotoAni has already masterd: body language. One clearly sees the heartbreaking mix of joy and sadness in their faces as they made their promises. Tomoya has a bit more sadness in his face while Nagisa has a bit more joy. Emotions run deep and it overflows as only the human face can express. That is the beauty of this scene.

And so they promise to one another that they'll go to the beach together, not just two, but three. Mother, Father and Child.

"The White Darkness"

And so comes the preview for the central event of Clannad. Every Clannad gamer as so far dreaded the coming of this episode. I can definitely be sure that KyotoAni will be giving us the event that is a requirement for everyone who plays the game, even if it rends the human heart in ways rarely seen anywhere else.

The symbolism of the Illusionary world comes 2/3 of the way here. As Kotomi and Ryou have already suggested, there may very well be an alternate world out there, full of sadness and despair.

Yet, only in this world, will your miracle be granted. To be granted this miracle, one must feel the sadness of life alongside its joys. One needs to learn about family, its ups and downs, its triumphs and failures, and its gains and its losses. Maybe then, and only maybe, will the miracle this small family of three be granted,

As for the White Darkness... well I think I know what it points to by now. We'll just have to see it with our own eyes. Or should I say, with their eyes.

---------------

Time to steal myself for the next episode. Thank god it's after exams though... :upset::upset::upset:

[MissInformed]

I don't want to be an idiot, but it seems the only other place to speculate is the spoilers and speculation thread. And not everyone wants to risk subjecting themselves to spoilers, so best to stay out of that one. I just took for granted that that was the only speculation thread until I've seen a few things alluding to some other speculation thread for non-gamers? Well I looked and looked for such a thread, and I'm not seeing one. So if there is one, please kindly direct me to that one. Otherwise, unless there's going to be a new thread for non-gamers (should I go suggest/request it?), people will probably keep doing it here b/c they don't want to go to the spoilerish thread.

I'm not a gamer, but I spoiled myself a long time ago. So I've just been avoiding talking about it altogether. I don't post much anyway. But anyway. Sorry to be an idiot and go kind of off-topic. Mods can delete this if they want.

[Klashikari]

this thread, Clannad - Speculation & Theories (for first time viewers) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=55256) but it seems it became quite unpopular over time.

[kim8268]

I am stating to hate clannad this time Dam The End Is near I guess I was hoping for a great ending seems like kyoto animation is following a chart of (Good end(Every Body happy) and Bad End(somebody died))2X on thier romantic drama anime. But I guess its fine I gonna witness yet another legend in the world of romantic drama anime

[acr429]

if this ends like the movie I 'm gonna need a new monitor

[Ithekro]

Well the price has come down of late....:uhoh:

[RandomFlameStrike]

The end scene was awesome, but I'm a little sad that they skipped Sanae's, Akio's, and the rest of Yoshino's route... Judging by the preview and foreshadowing ... gah I'm probably going to need tissues next time. Still I hope they will go with the "True end" after some events.

[SSJiffy]

It's been predicted since the 2nd season was announced. This wont end well. I'm investing in Kleenex in preparation for next week. :(

[SnackPacs]

Guess I'll save my views other than this:

I'd been tearing up for most of the episode, but it wasn't until the promise talk that I 'really' started crying...

...Well then, better be ready next friday. Gonna set aside at least an hour timeframe for the episode... And plenty of time for post episode crying and whatnot. Warn the family members there will be sobbing, etc.

I just hope SS & Eclipse will make sure to get it out on friday next week. But with that damn white album, not criticizing the show, more just annoyed ANOTHER drama going on at the same time, will probably get in the way AGAIN.

[MeoTwister5]

That is if the subbers aren't too busy crying as well I suppose.

Which I assume is why the last few subbed episodes from them have been late a while.:p

[Kaisos Erranon]

Is anyone else wondering how they are going to stretch the rest of the series for 8-10 episodes?

Ushio Arc and probably the Sanae/Akio arcs.

[MeoTwister5]

And don't forget "that other guy".

I think we still need him, we're at least 1 character short to get all the you-know-whats.

[SnackPacs]

Which I assume is why the last few subbed episodes from them have been late a while.:p

It's simple, they just need an extra translator. One to translate out the blubbering and mumbling of the main translator while they're crying. XD

Joking aside, I guess it's kinda... reasonable but...

But next week will NOT be wait capable. The moment I get home from classes, I'm running a torrent ASAP, no matter who has what up... God forbid, if no one does, I'll watch a RAW.

[IRJustman]

That is if the subbers aren't too busy crying as well I suppose.

That's why I took on a light-hearted project to help offset the mood that CLANNAD's about to take.

if this ends like the movie I 'm gonna need a new monitor

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

What I'll just say is that the movie is its own retelling of the core story with its own urgencies, including and especially the format of a ninety-minute motion picture. It is meant to stand alone, not to directly supplement any other presentation. As such, as with the AIR motion picture, Toei Animation and Dezaki Osamu took a LOT of liberties to present the basic story given the restrictions inherent in the format. As such, I really think KyoAni will take a fundamentally different direction with its presentation of the story versus the motion picture's, if everything I've heard is correct about actual canon.

Well, I guess it's time to hunker down and deal with the story going forward.

--Ian.

[Myssa Rei]

Where's a metaphysical Vault when you need one, ne?

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Well, if this is anything like the movie...

:sad:

[germanturkey]

i'm not one to like Nagisa, but since i know what'll happen, it makes me feel a little sad, especially since their little expedition at the beach hit a nerve with me. On another note, it looks like we'll see actual supporting cast next ep!! woot.

[Klashikari]

I won't question which group anyone is picking for their watching experience, but I would like to ask you all to refrain yourself from mentioning one or another peculiar group.
Not only we do not wish to have countdown and such kind of things, but fansub drama and the like are hardly our cup of tea (and I'm sure most groups wouldn't like to be compared or whatnot, in general).

Please keep your preferences for yourself.

[Freya]

Well I can't agree with Tomoya agreeing with Nagisa's every wish. He knows the risks and everything and he's like her b****.

"Hey Tomoya I want this, I want that."
"Okay. Anything you want."

Seriously....wthell? Pretty sad though.

[Valin]

Am I the only one that considers going to go smoke a cigarette whenever I see Akio lighting one up? Kyoani promotes bad habits and makes it look cool D:

[Freya]

Good luck with that....you're only killing yourself.

[Valin]

I don't smoke, try not to take it too seriously lol, I was just joking. But seriously:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/taildvailn/vlcsnap-53397.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/taildvailn/vlcsnap-55789.png

It's like, everywhere in the series haha. I guess in Japan it's not that big of a deal. I just found that kind of interesting.


Plus, everything I have to say about the episode was already covered :p

[Proto]

Am I the only one that considers going to go smoke a cigarette whenever I see Akio lighting one up?

Proto.snarky: How old are you anyway? It should be about time your super-ego stands above your ID and graduate from that form of media manipulation :p

Proto.semi-serious: Japanese society is in that respect a little different from others in the world, in the way that it positively promotes smoking and drinking as a basic form of social interaction. If you don't smoke and drink you are a pussy. If you only do one of the two, you are still a pussy :p

Proto.shift-the-blame-on-someone-else: This is copied verbatim from the original material. If you want to take it out on someone, takek it out on KEY :p

Proto.PS: I've noticed that I tend to overuse the ':p' thingie on my posts. Opinions?

[Valin]

:p is a good face. :p .......



:p

[Freya]

Oh lol. Repost it yeah?

[SwiftStrike]

magical sun that cures all illnesses...land destroyed and people play baseball there.
should that signify that whatever nagisa's miracle happened there...wont happen again?

[DragoZERO]

... Judging by the preview and foreshadowing ... gah I'm probably going to need tissues next time...
Yeah.. I will need tissues as well. Even though I may know what will happen. Even though I can predict what will happen. I will still need them.

[Freya]

I don't get why she wants a kid so early...

[DragoZERO]

I also don't get why they had to rush into it.. its safe to assume they didn't get a doctor's opinion before going about it. I mean, you know she has a weak body and falls ill yearly.

[Freya]

Well it's obvious Tomoya is Nagisa's b****

[Ushio]

Well it's obvious Tomoya is Nagisa's b****

1. Is it so hard to believe that their relationship just happens to be like that? Degrading Tomoya's love by calling him "Nagisa's b****," imo, is pretty unnecessary.
2. I think saying this once is enough to begin with.

Had to say that so I registered. Might as well post my thoughts while I'm here. :p


I loved this episode. Like everyone else, I'm bracing myself for 16. I mean, I cried enough in this one. @__@;

[OceanBlue]

I thought I liked ep. 13, but this one was just amazing. During the previous episodes, I felt like the mood [and the music] changed a little abruptly, but I didn't feel that way this time [probably because the mood didn't change much at all]. I almost started tearing up during Akio's story, and I was so touched when they decided the name.

Tomoya can sure write quickly on the sand.

[Rice_slayer]

Well it's obvious Tomoya is Nagisa's b****

I have been thinking this to, but If you DO love a girl, you will put anything down for her right? Too bad anime girls and real girls are very different, Women in real life tend to be, how do I say it, B****ier...

[Sorrow-K]

The character art in this episode was subpar. The close ups were fine, but everytime they went for something further away, the art lacked detail and the features were off.

Two comments about this ep. The first is that they've set up a very dramatic situation, yet they've managed to make it so clear what choices each of the characters have made. The second is that they've really put a lot of emphasis on the similarities between what Tomoya and Nagisa are facing and the challenges that Akio and Sanae went through before them. In that respect, it's a story filled with patterns.

[Kaisos Erranon]

I somehow got FLCL vibes from the kids playing baseball...


All in all, great episode. 10/10 from me.

[Hao]

Pretty good episode, the family singing the Dango song was pretty cute lol.

That's all I've got to say. 10/10 for me~

[Ithekro]

I'd be Rena....I mean Nagisa's b****.:uhoh:

[Freya]

1. Is it so hard to believe that their relationship just happens to be like that? Degrading Tomoya's love by calling him "Nagisa's b****," imo, is pretty unnecessary.
2. I think saying this once is enough to begin with.

Had to say that so I registered. Might as well post my thoughts while I'm here. :p


I loved this episode. Like everyone else, I'm bracing myself for 16. I mean, I cried enough in this one. @__@;

There's love and there's something called intelligence. She's like how old? And he's been giving her everything she wants even if it may kill her? yeah.....and thanks for giving me a negative rep.

Okay people. True he loves her with all his heart but why do it now? You KNOW for a fact she's going to dye because she's too weak. What if when shes older she gets physically stronger? And she even wants to have the kid in the house? Yeah good job Tomoya. Lowering her chance of survival even more.

Ierno about you but I would love my wife and any chance of her SURVIVING is good for me.

[Reckoner]

A big problem that I have with Clannad is the lack of tension between Nagisa and Tomoya. Really, Tomoya should be having an issue with Nagisa's silly wishes. She is living in a fairy tale and Tomoya refuses to snap her out of it.

[Vegard Aune]

¨True he loves her with all his heart but why do it now? You KNOW for a fact she's going to dye because she's too weak. What if when shes older she gets physically stronger?
For starters, no, they don't KNOW for a fact that she's going to die. They only learned halfway through the episode that there was a risk that it MIGHT happen. Besides, the baby wasn't planned in advance, it just kinda happened. And while I obviously wouldn't know this myself, do you really think having an abortion is an easy choice to make? Although it might not be fully developed yet, it would still essentially be killing your own child.

And she even wants to have the kid in the house? Yeah good job Tomoya. Lowering her chance of survival even more.
They specifically explained why that could actually be a good idea, and also, she gave up on that halfway through the episode, once she learned that there WAS a risk.

[Ascaloth]

Ierno about you but I would love my wife and any chance of her SURVIVING is good for me.

So, because you don't want your wife to die, you would gladly insist on her aborting the fetus even though she wants with all her heart to bring the child into this world. And this is despite knowing that, if you make her go through with the abortion anyway, she'd probably bear a psychological scar about the lost one all her life.

Is this love? I dunno. Is this you being self-centered and unwilling to understand your wife's decision? You bet. :eyebrow:

[MeoTwister5]

Okay. Time for some information.

We were talking about this is class a few months back. Practically all my professors agree that once labor begins, especially for less than healthy expectant mothers, it is much more safer to deliver at the place where labor began with the assumption that someone trained in delivery can be at the site. Movement, anxiety, transport and the like are REALLY REALLY detrimental factors to the state of both the child and the mother. Transport to the hospital is only viable for mothers with relatively stable conditions, or if labor is in its initial stages. Given Nagisa's state of health, I'd have to agree that moving to a hospital from their home might do more harm than good. The fact of the matter is, the issue of birth HAS to be resolved quickly, prolonging labor just for transport to a hospital is very dangerous for both the baby and the mother.

I highly doubt Nagisa meets the requirements for safe transport, even in an ambulance. Also, there are no true treatments that reduces labor nor eliminated it, for rhe sole fact that it is again dangerous for the mother and child. The only solution is delivery.

And from a medicolegal prespective, it is the mother's will and the mother's will alone that decides where and how she wants to deliver. Unless the mother is in a state where she is unable to make a rational judgement, upon which it becomes the perogative of the husband, only she can decide. It is her body after all.

In the first place, you're assuming she will die based on the episode's signs and perhaps some knowledge elsewhere of the tale. Do the characters know this? Of course not. The internal reality of childbearing in the series is based on real childbearing and not based on the characters being omniscient and knowing how thier tale is going to end up. Neither characters know whether she'll die or not because they are, again, characters in the story and not the weavers. The internal reality suggests that the characters know that she CAN birth safely, and not THAT she is destined for one of the possible outcomes. One must deliniate what the viewer knows and what the characters know.

I agree with Ascaloth. Love is still a two-way street, even in matters regarding life and death. You love your wife enough to want her to live, yet you love her enough to understand and respect her decision. If at all, love is rooted in TRUST. Trust in your partner enough to respect his/her decision regarding her health and life, and not imposing your own will on the person by some selfish notion of what you want in the relationship.

Edit - Removed minor spoilers here and there. Might make my post more vague, but hey.

[Nochgo]

As saying for Tomoya listening to every single thing Nagisa wishes, that is stretching it a bit. For starters, Nagisa's wish at delivering at home, is one of very FEW requests Nagisa asked from Tomoya. Second, for Nagisa, there are just as many reasons to deliver at home rather than in a hospital, as MeoTwister5 mentioned. Either way, why wouldn't Tomoya think for Nagisa's best interest (like her parents)?

As for the episode, it was great. It's been a while since I jerked tears while watching anime (first time for After Story, oddly), and it the scene promising to go to the beach with the three of them. You can tell Tomoya's considerable fear in him trying to get a firm confirmation from Nagisa. And Nagisa's uncertainty (maybe more certain toward her death) in Nagisa's delayed reply and her forlorn eyes, etc. Sad T.T

[RandomFlameStrike]

Ugh Freya, if you were in Tomoya's position would you force Nagisa to kill her baby based on the fact that there is a chance she might not make it? Also Nagisa's fate isn't set in stone lol. Just because her body is a little weak does NOT mean it's a FACT that she'll die. There's love and there's intelligence yes, but forceing your wife to abort her child isn't something intelligent. Maybe such a thing would be reasonable if there was a 100% chance that she'd die if she had the baby, but that's not the case.

On another note, I don't think a baby is something you abort when it becomes inconvient or a problem and say "Hm I guess we'll have the baby later!" It won't be the same life. They decided ahead of time to have that baby after all. Or atleast I'm assuming Tomoya knew the gist of what he was getting into when he did it with Naigsa w/o a condom.

[Freya]

Wow. I NEVER said they had to abort. But just little things here and there may increase her chances of surviving.

[Anime Daisuki]

They need to bring back the dango theme as the ED...

10/10 until the ending theme started up. Completely ruins the mood.

[destiny4everlove]

Episode 15

- So Nagisa is two-month pregnant…how many months since Nagisa and Tomoya married?http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi34-1.gif I guess the baby was conceived during the very early days of Nagisa and Tomoya’s marriage.

-Tomoya saying he would protect his daughter was very sweet. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi00.gif And I liked it even more when Sanae mentioned that Akio said the same thing about protecting Nagisa. Akio and Tomoya are very similar indeed. :)

-A baby~...mmm…yes, Tomoya a baby means a huge responsibility and I do think your dad thought the same thing as you were doing on that bus, because I do think Tomoya’s dad was a good dad when his wife was still alive.

-Nagisa looks so beautiful when she is sick in bed. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi00.gif

-Tomoya feeding Nagisa was so sweet and adorable!!http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi9b.gif

-Tomoya is such a great husband. He cares and loves his wife so much. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/cloud9.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

-Give birth at home…mmm...I don’t know if I would be sold on that idea. I guess it depends on each person…

-“But I was the first one to lick you” LOL! :heehee: Another epic line courtesy of Akio! It’s not even I was the first to kiss you, but the first to lick you!!!!http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Happy/happy-061.gif


-Akio wants to lick Ushio too!!http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/biggrin.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

-“No. Tomoya-kun gets the first lick!” http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Happy/happy-061.gif Like father, like daughter. :heehee: Nagisa is not even worried about the licking part, she is worried that her father wants to be the first one to lick the baby because she wants for Tomoya to be the first one to do that. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Manga/xD-075.GIF

-So Akio doesn’t want to be called grampa, maybe it’s because he feels he is too young to be a grampa. BTW, I love how Tomoya knows how to push Akio’s buttons. :smile:

-Nagisa, Sanae, Akio and Tomoya singing all together "Dango" to Ushio was so touchinghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi04.gif. Watching that scene made me miss the dango ending so much!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRgmyv4_eNA&feature=related

-Sanae and Tomoya’s conversation in the restaurant was so heartbreaking. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi32.gif Sanae’s news for Tomoya is not the news a husband/father wants to hear; that his beloved wife’s life is in danger and that his baby’s life is in danger as well. I felt so sad for my poor Tomoya during that scene.http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi32.gif

-I felt so bad for Nagisa during this episode, she knew she needed to be strong for her family, for Tomoya and for her parents, but of course she was worried too. :(

- I love Nagisa even more than before, she is a really amazing girl. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi04.gifhttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi01.gif

-So that’s where Akio used to go when he took time off from the bakery.

-Akio crying really broke my heart. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Sad/sad-049.gif

-Akio praying in that open field with Nagisa in his arms was so touching. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi04.gif I loved that scene!

-“I couldn’t help but to think of this place as Nagisa’s double”…It’s interesting to notice how Nagisa seemed to have been saved by the spirit of that forest and now the same forest that saved Nagisa is being destroyed and a new hospital is being built in its place. So maybe Akio is right and there is indeed a connection between Nagisa and that forest.http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Thinking/thinking-023.GIF

-This is the first time Akio calls Tomoya by his name, which made that scene all the more special. :) I loved how Akio reminded Tomoya that he was not alone. Akio reminded Tomoya that they, Nagisa, Sanae, Akio and him are a family and that if they support and help each other as a family, then they can overcome any hardships and painful things life might throw at them.

-So Nagisa has decided to keep the baby’s sex a surprise until the day of Ushio's delivery.

-The scene when Nagisa and Tomoya chose the name for their baby was so beautiful. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi00.gif Nagisa means “The seashore” so Nagisa chose a name that it relates to her own name but that it’s bigger than her name since Ushio means “bay”. To Nagisa her baby’s existence is bigger than hers. Nagisa is so amazing!!!http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi9b.gif And I loved Ushio before this episode, but now that I know the meaning behind its (because the sex is still a big spoiler) name, I love it even more!!http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi01.gif

-But the part that touched my heart the most was Tomoya asking Nagisa to promise him she would go with him and Ushio to the beach next year. That was so heartbreaking!! Nagisa and Tomoya’s eyes were filled with so much sadness.http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi04.gif

[king12354]

The part about wishes... and the preview... interesting. :T_T::T_T:

[Ascaloth]

Wow. I NEVER said they had to abort. But just little things here and there may increase her chances of surviving.

1) When Nagisa first brought up the idea of having a home birth, both Tomoya and Akio did have some reservations about it, yes. However, the reservations in question were just about Nagisa's health in general, something which kept popping up in the past anyway. At that time, none of them would have actually thought that the birth would be that dangerous to Nagisa's well-being.

2) Moreover, when Yagi the designated midwife first visited the Okazakis, even she mentioned that a home birth might actually be beneficial to mother and child, for reasons stated in the episode. And when you consider that she said that even though, as Sanae mentioned, she knows about Nagisa's poor health, surely you have to concede that there are good reasons for opting for a home birth apart from Nagisa's whim?

3) So when did the issue of actual danger to Nagisa from the birth first come up? Not until Nagisa first collapsed, and Sanae brought it up with Tomoya in the cafe. Moreover, when Tomoya later discussed this with Nagisa, the latter quickly gave up on the idea of a home birth. The girl may be stubborn, but she is definitely not stupid; she made the best decision for herself and everyone else, based on what information she had about the condition at the time.

Therefore, little things here and there that may increase her chances of survival? As far as is shown, that is what Tomoya and the Furukawas are already doing for Nagisa to the best of their ability, and her chances can't go any higher short of an abortion; which we all know is something Nagisa won't even consider out of love.

I trust I have laid everything out quite clearly for you? :eyebrow:

[Snooker]

"Clannad" like "Madonna"- Most of criticizers dislike her because she is very popular.

[Freya]

1) When Nagisa first brought up the idea of having a home birth, both Tomoya and Akio did have some reservations about it, yes. However, the reservations in question were just about Nagisa's health in general, something which kept popping up in the past anyway. At that time, none of them would have actually thought that the birth would be that dangerous to Nagisa's well-being.

2) Moreover, when Yagi the designated midwife first visited the Okazakis, even she mentioned that a home birth might actually be beneficial to mother and child, for reasons stated in the episode. And when you consider that she said that even though, as Sanae mentioned, she knows about Nagisa's poor health, surely you have to concede that there are good reasons for opting for a home birth apart from Nagisa's whim?

3) So when did the issue of actual danger to Nagisa from the birth first come up? Not until Nagisa first collapsed, and Sanae brought it up with Tomoya in the cafe. Moreover, when Tomoya later discussed this with Nagisa, the latter quickly gave up on the idea of a home birth. The girl may be stubborn, but she is definitely not stupid; she made the best decision for herself and everyone else, based on what information she had about the condition at the time.

Therefore, little things here and there that may increase her chances of survival? As far as is shown, that is what Tomoya and the Furukawas are already doing for Nagisa to the best of their ability, and her chances can't go any higher short of an abortion; which we all know is something Nagisa won't even consider out of love.

I trust I have laid everything out quite clearly for you? :eyebrow:

Sigh oh well. The inevitable will come.

"Clannad" like "Madonna"- Most of criticizers dislike her because she is very popular.

......what?

[anyme]

As the pace of the story fast like this , I'm very sure that it will be the same as MOVIE.

If they're happy = the story end from audience's point of view = hard to write interesting story for the remaining 9 episodes.

So prepare to cry!! It's just the matter of time!!

[Kaioshin Sama]

"Clannad" like "Madonna"- Most of criticizers dislike her because she is very popular.

I thought it was because she can'act worth a damn and keeps trying to be the center of attention.

[Dop]

I thought the part where they were all sitting round singing the dango song was quite beautiful.

[Myssa Rei]

I thought it was because she can'act worth a damn and keeps trying to be the center of attention.

Less of the former and more of the latter. Frankly, EVERYONE is aware of how old she is, yet she keeps on going. Then again, she IS a brand all to her own...

Anyway, less sidetracking, since the post you replied to is obviously baiting. ^^

[Sinestra]

I finally had a chance to sit down and watch the episode and i thought it was quite beautiful. Especially, the scene of of everyone sitting around singing the dango song to the baby. Part of the theme of this episode and its always reoccurring is family and family take care of one another. Also, it shows that life does not always let things run smoothly its how you handle the curve balls in life that determine if you come out of it a stronger person.

I was always wondering if they were going to use Nagisa's illness as part of the plot if something life them getting married and having a baby should arise and they did. Making difficult choices like this i dont envy Tomoya as you can see the guy is slowly but surely being eaten alive by it. Nagisa of course and im sure no one was surprised wants to keep the baby even if it endangers her life. I wonder if this was her wish just encase something happened to her. She would want to leave behind a piece of her and Tomoya. Such feelings are not unusual especially people are sickly from a very young age.

Sanae is just wonderful and so was pops in giving Tomoya advice on how to get through this. They said themselves Nagisa was miracle and im sure they are praying for another one to happen. Clanned has lived up to all my expectations and more and as the story progresses i find myself getting more and more attached to Nagisa and Tomoya at the same time its giving me a heart attack watching especially this past episode. I couldnt help but to tear up a bit during the episode. Im sure episode 16 will be just as emotional and thrilling to watch.

I so approve of the name that Tomoya and Nagisa picked Ushio i like it very much.

[-Sho-]

Very Good episode , They are very cute together and Akio finally said "We are a family" ! It changes ! They hanging together , its beautiful :) Ushio , yeah its cool !
Best moments in the beach ! Nagisa x Tomoya was cute ! Akio was very great !
But i feels somethings bad later !
Next episode : The Robot's return omg ! And Nagisa is hurt !

[Ithekro]

So...will there be a line to lick Ushio?

[JPZ]

oh my i want too see the next one so bad but then i really dont. :(

[Leo_Otaku]

There's love and there's something called intelligence. She's like how old? And he's been giving her everything she wants even if it may kill her? yeah.....and thanks for giving me a negative rep.

Okay people. True he loves her with all his heart but why do it now? You KNOW for a fact she's going to dye because she's too weak. What if when shes older she gets physically stronger? And she even wants to have the kid in the house? Yeah good job Tomoya. Lowering her chance of survival even more.

Ierno about you but I would love my wife and any chance of her SURVIVING is good for me.

he didn't get her pregnant on purpose you know :uhoh:

[Rice_slayer]

oh my i want too see the next one so bad but then i really dont. :(

QFT! I just finished playing the next part in the game( got it going and have being playing for awhile). Man, Im going to cry friday :'(.

[Proto]

geez, we have a thread for game discussion and for speculation. What is going to happen next Thursday is not set in stone. If you want to speculate about that use the proper thread for it ;)

[zzeroparticle]

Poignant episode was pretty damn poignant. I've said it before and it bears repeating, but watching the way Tomoya and Nagisa really care for each other is really endearing. This particular episode was just dripping with a sort of sentimentality and the dialogue that the characters go through pretty much reinforce the themes of the family that Clannad explores so well and to great effect to boot.

[IRJustman]

As the pace of the story fast like this , I'm very sure that it will be the same as MOVIE.

Tut tut! You're jumping to conclusions!

Again, the movie is completely different. It is a very heavily-abridged retelling of the basic story. Do not base your assumptions on the motion picture as the motion picture and both series to date are entirely different stories. Watch AIR TV and AIR the Motion Picture, compare them and you'll see what I mean.

However, of course, this makes the assumption that Kyoto Animation did not make any substantial deviations from canon except those changes made wherever practical and for clarification purposes because of the format shift.

At this point, I'd say just hide and watch. There's certainly no disagreement that things will get VERY interesting from here on in.

--Ian.

[Rice_slayer]

geez, we have a thread for game discussion and for speculation. What is going to happen next Thursday is not set in stone. If you want to speculate about that use the proper thread for it ;)

Wasn't getting into speculation or the game events, its the preview at the end of this episode gives the next away. After re-watching this episode, I have to say, the whole "I want to lick Ushio" thing is really funny:heh:

[Sinestra]

QFT! I just finished playing the next part in the game( got it going and have being playing for awhile). Man, Im going to cry friday :'(.

I haven't played the game but you would have to blind deaf and dumb not to see whats going to happen. This was something i feared way back when Nagisa's illness started to take stage. As iv stated countless time over the years bittesweet endings are like the bread and butter of the anime world. I still have this theory that writers dont like having characters survive and if you actually have an series where the character is said situation lives your like an outcast. They couldn't even let them be married for a bit before they brought down the wrath of the anime gods on them and the entire family. I dont know if i can even bring myself to watch the next episode. I really dont feel like being depressed for a week like after watched Air 1000th summer i felt horrible not looking forward to that feeling again.

[Sour-Do]

I haven't posted in a very long time, so I hope my first post in over 4 years doesn't get banned... ^^;

For those who've seen KyoAni's Kanon, remember how KyoAni added an uplifting original twist to Makoto's story within the last few episodes of the series? Also, recall how KyoAni treated Shiori's fate mercifully?

I am holding out in hope that KyoAni might still surprise us with a more merciful yet heart-wrenching conclusion for the Okazaki family.

[Sinestra]

I haven't posted in a very long time, so I hope my first post in over 4 years doesn't get banned... ^^;

For those who've seen KyoAni's Kanon, remember how KyoAni added an uplifting original twist to Makoto's story within the last few episodes of the series? Also, recall how KyoAni treated Shiori's fate mercifully?

I am holding out in hope that KyoAni might still surprise us with a more merciful yet heart-wrenching conclusion for the Okazaki family.

We can hope for mercy all we want i believe many of us are skeptical on Kyoani has any mercy when it comes to this stuff. I for one would love a true happy ending not a bittersweet one but im not holding my breath.

[MeoTwister5]

Well if anyone cares, episode 16 airs in Japan in approx. 24 hours.

[Tempester]

Well if anyone cares, episode 16 airs in Japan in approx. 24 hours.

It's gonna be a long 24 hours. I should watch Cowboy Bebop and Gundam 00 while waiting. :p

[Sinestra]

It's gonna be a long 24 hours. I should watch Cowboy Bebop :p

off topic

You just made me sad:( for reasons others might know.

[KaneDragon]

he didn't get her pregnant on purpose you know :uhoh:
Um, didn't he? She was asking for a baby in that one scene, remember?

[Leo_Otaku]

Um, didn't he? She was asking for a baby in that one scene, remember?

Even though she says this it comes as a surprise to him. If they were trying for a child he wouldn't be so surprised. As well they weren't completely ready.

In the game she never says that and it is also a surprise. They have this scene in the anime so we don't think she doesn't want to ever have a child and was forced into it. As well so the audience wouldn't be expecting something left field.

[Guardian Enzo]

Even as ham-handed and emotionally manipulative as this story is, it's hard not to be a little moved knowing (and this isn't a spoiler as I've never played the game - just using my noodle) what's going to happen. They've done a fine job portraying Tomoya and Nagisa as doe-eyed kids unprepared for what cruelties life can throw at them, and clueless about that light at the end of the tunnel being the 3:45 express...

[Myssa Rei]

Tick tock. Tick.

Still wondering what role the Fujibayashi twins will have in tomorrow's episode. Or Kotomi for that matter.

[Ithekro]

There will be chaos tomorrow on so many boards it will be rediculous. No matter what happens there will still be chaos.

[Myssa Rei]

Ithekro: I dunno about you, I'm keeping my suit of T-51b (because not everyone can get Astartes Power Armor) on hand just in case.

[Ithekro]

I prefer staying on the warship...more firepower and range...also a way to escape if needed.

[Sheba]

Ithekro: I dunno about you, I'm keeping my suit of T-51b (because not everyone can get Astartes Power Armor) on hand just in case.

Come on, the T51b have a very retro charm that anyone can fall for. I only have my puny Reily's ranger combat armor.

[Master Chibi]

Meh.

I got nothing.

I'm just waiting.

[Ithekro]

Chaos on isle 4chan

[KaneDragon]

Chaos on isle 4chan
Only on a calm day. :rolleyes: