Clannad ~After Story~ - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Clannad ~After Story~ , Episode 16.

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[GameMaster0000]

One word...

Nagisa!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even I know what will happen my tear blow out with no reason

I surly that rating of this will lower lol

[C.C.]

I just saw the screenshots...

I don't want to see this episode... ;__; It seems too sad.. Nagisa.............

[Sinestra]

Havent seen the episode but saw some screen shots. Unless they are going to pull off some huge twist of happiness my weekend has just been ruined depression has already started to seat its self at my table
.

[SageGaiGar]

Raws are out.

[laksmkk]

I just saw the episode. Very sad of the entire clannad series. I recommend to prepare a pack of tissues beforehand next to you while watching this episode.

[SageGaiGar]

Thanks for the warning, I'm about ready to start. *edit* Finished... be prepared. I'll be waiting for the subs to get some of the dialogue earlier in the episode.

T minus until any shippers work up the courage to make any comments after this episode. Sad, yet fitting in the end.

[CrowKenobi]

Just watched the RAW...

:T_T: at the end.

I really liked the symbolistic juxtaposition of the first episode of Clannad: we see the color go out of Tomoya's life as Nagisa walks away. :(

Much watch the subs...:cool:

[karinvampire]

Waiting for the subs but I'm pretty sure I know what happens.

[Sinestra]

I just don't know what to say wow um well it was fitting from what dialog i could understand i just don't know what else to say. Im actually quite upset and tissues are a must if you are going to watch this episode. I will wait to cast my final vote when the subs come out.

I dont think anyone has the courage to even talk about the episode let alone write a synopsis at this point.

god i need a drink:( is it too late to ask for a cosmic reset?

[Ithekro]

The previews had a nice artistic touch to them.....

[bladeofdarkness]

never has it been more clear that the ED song is horribly out of place
and after this ep i would just like to say :T_T:

[MeoTwister5]

Just downloaded the RAW... I don't even wanna touch the damn thing...

[darry]

oh god im so scared to watch it :(

[Master Anime]

Just Watched The RAW
And as i expected my tears can't stop.

[cbatty]

Damn it... I am getting sad by just reading your responses to watching the raw.

How am I going to do my work today suspecting what is about to happen with my favorite anime couple?

[Vibeke]

おわりですね。。。 TT_TT

Although I played the game and knew what was coming this episode still gets 10 from me :T_T:
I was also pleasantly surprised to see all of those old faces... Sunohara is such a great character ^^'

[darry]

well a 1/10 would be more fitting tbh :(

[magnum]

Damn it... I am getting sad by just reading your responses to watching the raw.

How am I going to do my work today suspecting what is about to happen with my favorite anime couple?

Same as you, but still haven't downloaded thd RAW. I'm waiting for the subs to come out. I couldn't stop myself fidgeting around wondering about nagisa which make my day goes down. I better to prepare alot of tissue before the subs come out.

[ChoRyuJin]

This episode is quite worth watching because this is one of the climax of CLANNAD.
Don't be so depressed, If Nagisa hadn't given her best, Ushio would not have born.
The heart is the story between Ushio and Tomoya at.
I wish that Kyoto Animation will produce another episode for Nagisa (True End).

[magnum]

Too damn spoilers. That's make my day ruined.

[Ithekro]

The episode seems happy for a while. Familiar faces and all. Plus Nagisa seems quite happy.

[Proto]

Too damn spoilers. That's make my day ruined.

My suggestion would be to avoid this thread altogether. To be fair unless the mods take some harsh action this thread will become a spoiler hell. :p

Though I really don't remember what was the policy for episodes whose fansub has yet to be released bt whose RAW is already out.

[SageGaiGar]

Well, technically no one's said exactly what happened, but from all the chatter it's going to be extremely difficult not to get a clue as to what's going on, even without spoiler tags.

It's kind of a snowball now rolling down the slope.

[MeoTwister5]

It's almost been set in stone since episode 15.

Ah screw it. While the event in the game didn't hit me as hard as I thought, something tells me this one will. I'll watch the RAW, ad I have a towel handy.

[magnum]

My suggestion would be to avoid this thread altogether. To be fair unless the mods take some harsh action this thread will become a spoiler hell. :p

Though I really don't remember what was the policy for episodes whose fansub has yet to be released bt whose RAW is already out.

I didn't ever tried to touch any spoilers here. I barely see the spoiler on the other site.

[Tempester]

-1 point for including pointless characters (Kyou, Kotomi, Youhei). I know it's nice, but it's like "We're here all the time, you don't have to worry!" One of the points of After Story in the visual novel was that after graduating, school friends disappear and you need to find new ones.

+5 points for making me shed a tear, despite having played the game and knowing what would happen. It's mostly thanks to the excellent animation and voice acting. Tomoya's talented seiyuu, along with the incredible animation of the character, made him feel real. I think the series quality control was best at this part.

-2 points for incorporating the ending. KyoAni has been a bit too consistent with openings and endings in their Key works, and it shows here more than in any other episode. Torch playing at the end is like a slap in the face to devastated fans, like saying, "Hey stupid, quit crying! Clannad is a happy series, and this ending video proves it!" I must say they could have picked so many things to play instead. Piano version of Toki o Kizamu Uta would be very effective. Sora ni Hikaru (vocal or not) would also be fine. I wouldn't even mind if they copy-pasted the ending from the first season (Dango Daikazoku) for this episode because it fits in the mood and theme so much better while being modest and not upbeat and sugary as Torch is. Hell, a piano/violin instrumental of Torch would be better than the "normal" ending. Sure, production-wise there is no need to use another ending. But KyoAni has used special openings/endings before. Episode 0 of Haruhi had a special opening. Lucky Star even had 24 endings, 12 of which was live action! Meh.

Above rant doesn't keep me from rating this episode a 10/10 though.

[MeoTwister5]

Edit - Meh. Moot issue. Ended up watching the entire damn thing anyway.

I doubt I'll be in any right cognitive condition for the next few days.

Will post my review/impressions when the first subs are out, so as now to spoil anything.

Also, screw tissues. Bring a bath towel.

[Myssa Rei]

Heh, it seems that folks will need the emotional equivalent of Tactical Dreadnought Armor for this.

[Mecha_Trueno]

Screw this man, here's MY advice:
Don't watch and pretend after story ended at episode 15.


never has it been more clear that the ED song is horribly out of place
and after this ep i would just like to say :T_T:Can't agree more, I was like "you're shitting me, don't give us this tune after that scene":twitch:


I haven't played the game, so at the end, I was actually STILL thinking "that didn't REALLY happen right...?"
"tell me that was just..."tell me those were just pointless flashbacks on Tomoya's part and Nagisa's still there next ep, please let this just be a KyoAni stunt..."
then in the preview we see that Tomoya's daily life is a mess... which basically answered my quesiton:(

[Throne Zwei]

... WHAT THE HELL?!?! WHY!?!?! WHY THIS ENDING!?!?!

Tell me its a dream PLEASE!

The ending theme couldnt have come at a worse time...

[Leo_Otaku]

Alright my opionionsHaving played the game I knew what was to come. Just as alot of others who have/have not played the game. I really loved the way Kyo-ani portayed the scene with Tomoya and Nagisa with her few last breaths. The colors and movements of the characters were wonderful. I really found the song "Nagisa" to be very powerful here, this song always makes me cry. My favorite part was whe he doesn't call out to her and you here her famous line and the vibrant colors fade with spring, as she walks away.
I'm with like everyone on the ED choice but as stated before...did we really think they would change it? we hoiped they would >.>

[Yushi]

Alright....
...I cried. Oooh heck yeah I cried. I KNEW what was going to happen but I cried anyways. The whole blurry scene from Nagisa's point of view... the way her hand just fell limply on the futon... How desperate Tomoya was... T_T Nooooooooooooooo! Nagisaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! ....I wish Naigsa was childfree now. >.>
=<

[Ithekro]

The ED could have still been "Dango Daikazoku". How do you think you'd feel if that where the case?

[velocity7]

There should be some sort of massive warning for this thread on the first post, on the subject, etc. :heh:

[panzerfan]

Episode 16 made me think quite a bit. I think it's fair for me to say that much without spoiling it. Watching this made me assess what my married friends from my grad year have to mull over as they move on with an often unpredictable life as a functional family, as it also raises the question in me regarding what of my stance on starting a family... which has been something pretty far from my mind.

Steel's not enough. You'll need damage control as good as the ones on Iowa class to couple with that steel after being plummeted by the salvos from this episode.

In terms of spoiler material...


I know of the plot in advance, but having seen this enacted slap my mind out cold nevertheless.

I walked away thinking that Kyoto animation really is trying to the best of its ability to not cast this whole situation as a sad, abysmal drama by having Tomoya's old friends showing up. I agree about making new friends, but the ones that grew up with you turn out to be the the longer lasting ones. Moreover, people are better old than new ultimately.

Nagaisa and Tomoya are a young couple, and this really hammers at me hard, given my age... moreover, I have to look at the mental fortitude required on both of them at this climatic moment more than once and let it sink in me, even if having a family seems so distant and abstract a concept to me. I think that no amount of postmortem would really do justice to turmoil within Tomoya's mind over this tormenting outcome.

There doubt exist those that would immediately say that the fault lies with Nagisa's insistance in bearing a child and Tomoya for allowing this to have happened. I harshly rebuke such argument since this mindset would question the rationale behind the existance of the critic themselves, for the very act of childbirth and the decision behind it is of no trivial matter. Should one point to reasons against bearing a child, the very list would be endless, yet we exist despite such obvious drawbacks. As such, I feel that there is little merit in arguing against the general decision to bear child.

Not everyone is prepared to make such a commitment that ... even today, can mean death for both the mother if not the baby as well. The burden after childbirth seem to amount to little as financial matters and parental responsibilities can be learned and conquered without putting one's life at such peril.




I don't wish to spoil the story further, and as it is right now, I am already feeling drained emotionally from what had transpired. Overall, I think this episode is solid despite the time constraint and I await the next with eagerness and trepidation.

[muncheez<3]

well not to make your day any worse with spoilers, i've recently seen the scene in the next episode on nico nico douga where Nagisa is giving birth to Ushio, it made that scene so sad because it had Chiisana Tenohira playing in the background which makes the atmosphere a bit gloomy while Tomoya constantly cries out for her:T_T: why?!

[Ithekro]

Warship armor would be ideal verses a power suit in Key derived animes. Shields on said warship is a bonus.

I made the mistake of looking up the Dango/Nagisa's song to get the starting words correct.

[magnum]

Subs are now release [SumiSora].

Even Eclipse is late for now, can wait to understand more about this.

Gotta prepare my tissue box.

[Zenemis]

I was spoiled, but man, it's like taking a Chainfist to the gut...

[Myssa Rei]

I was spoiled, but man, it's like taking a Chainfist to the gut...

Or a bolter round to the face.

I'm well past Christmas Cake in status, so very little makes me tear up nowadays, but... Well, to say that the episode made me feel thoughtful for what seems to be a long time is an understatement. For all of the criticisms about the CLANNAD girls being plot devices more than characters, well, they sure do their roles well.

I think I need some time alone for a day.

[kk2extreme]

this will make the saddest ep of the year

[magnum]

Too damn It, I couldn't stop crying out loud for nagisa. For the second time I cried for this series and movie. I started to cry at the start of her labor, giving birth to ushio. The episode totally a perfect drama for me.

Help, I need more tissue here.
I give this a perfect 10

[davie]

I'm going to assume by reading some of the replies that something bad is going to happen. I heard Tomoya's Seiyu (I suddenly forgot his name!) did amazing job in this episode.

[Vegard Aune]

The ED could have still been "Dango Daikazoku". How do you think you'd feel if that where the case?
I would have liked that WAY better, honestly. Ever since the actual After Story started, I've gradually come to hate the current ending due to how it keeps ruining the mood completely, and it was worse than ever this week. Actually, this is all making me wonder why I didn't hate Kaze no Tadoritsuku Basho, which was just as big a mood-killer...

Anyway, back to the episode...
I knew this was coming, yet that didn't make it any less heart-wrenching to actually see it. They really surpassed the "Goal"-scene in Air here, if you ask me, and that's pretty damn impressive. 10/10 for the episode, and as of right now, I also give the series itself a 10/10.

[panzerfan]

Goal scene is pretty godawful when it comes to what it signified. In AIR TV, there's far less time allowed to achieve the buildup, but the audience receive no break when it comes to the last climax of that series. I remember being shellshocked by AIR since I marathoned the last 3 episodes in one shot (knowing the plot well in advance at that). Do not attempt this unless if you don't value your mental health much.



Ever since AIR TV, KyoAni seems to have eased off on taking the audience to an emotional trainwreak. To be honest, the reflection in Clannad I think is a deeper one than that of AIR and Kanon out of the gut-wrenching moments. I at least have not been totally reduced into a blabbering, incoherent dysfunctional husk by Clannad and Kanon...

[Antenor]

I knew it would happen, and it still got me. Right up there with Misuzu's "Goal" scene in AIR... More than that actually, since Nagisa's character grew on me.

The ED could have still been "Dango Daikazoku". How do you think you'd feel if that where the case?

Dango Daikazoku would have killed me! Being so closely associated with her, that tune would have destroyed what little was left of my spirits...

[Tempester]

The ED could have still been "Dango Daikazoku". How do you think you'd feel if that where the case?

As I said in my earlier post, that would have been much better than the normal ending. In fact, the 2 seasons' endings should have been switched.

Torch is much better for keeping up with the comedy/light drama first season. Even after the sad parts, the song could have been played because the sad parts weren't of huge significance (like what happened in this episode).

On the other hand, Dango Daikazoku is perfect for After Story as it basically sums up the mood and theme of everything in After Story. It is also more downbeat and modest thus is very flexible for both those episodes that end happily and those that end sadly.

Dango Daikazoku would have killed me! Being so closely associated with ***********, that tune would have destroyed what little was left of my spirits...

Better choice than keeping this upbeat sugar parade song.

KyoAni got their endings messed up. :nono:

[Omniscient]

Geez, that was such a depressing episode. Like many of the people above, I hated that they kept the ED, but I still have to give the episode a 10/10 for how well KyoAni did it and how emotional it was.
More thoughts here (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2009/01/30/clannad-after-story-16/).

[cbatty]

Goal scene is pretty godawful when it comes to what it signified. In AIR TV, there's far less time allowed to achieve the buildup, but the audience receive no break when it comes to the last climax of that series. I remember being shellshocked by AIR since I marathoned the last 3 episodes in one shot (knowing the plot well in advance at that). Do not attempt this unless if you don't value your mental health much.



Ever since AIR TV, KyoAni seems to have eased off on taking the audience to an emotional trainwreak. To be honest, the reflection in Clannad I think is a deeper one than that of AIR and Kanon out of the gut-wrenching moments. I at least have not been totally reduced into a blabbering, incoherent dysfunctional husk by Clannad and Kanon...

Agreed - we have also taken much longer to get to know the characters in Clannad as opposed to the characters in Kanon and Air. I only finished watching Air recently - and I marathoned the whole series - well finished it off in a couple of days - with the final 4 in one sitting - yes, that was heart wrenching but it is nothing like the feeling I have for this episode - and I haven't even seen it yet... just the anticipation is painful.

[cbatty]

AQS subs have just been posted... http://a.scarywater.net/aquastar/CLANNAD_AFTER%20STORY_16_PAS_%5BAQS%5D%5BSprocket% 5D%5BTWH%5D%5B9CBB7B1C%5D.avi.torrent

[OmegaPhlare]

This is really the most amazing thing that I've ever seen. A part of me doesn't like the outcome of this episode, but I really understand that we need to keep going.

There was no other way, we must continue witness the true story of CLANNAD. With great sacrifice, there must be true purpose.

Nagisa wanted to have this child no matter what; and that really says something about the human spirit. If she would have aborted this child so that she may live, then maybe the two of them would have continued to live in happiness. But that kind of view has to be incomplete, there must be *something* about child birth that makes it worth that risk, no matter what. Nagisa must have known this.

Poor Tomoya, during the episode he questions himself and his actions. It really must be that tough to lose your most precious person.

[kamikazex]

man....words cant even describe how much that sucks.

[Antenor]

Better choice than keeping this upbeat sugar parade song.

KyoAni got their endings messed up. :nono:

I couldn't agree more on that.

I listened to Dango Daikazoku a few minutes ago... After seeing this episode, the soothing lullaby becomes an extremely sad and nostalgic song.

It fits this episode like a glove.

[Haruyasha]

Jesus.. this was the worst episode I had ever seen from a Key anime..

How could they screw it up so badly? It's like watching a comedy show while induced on crack.

I've never actually seen anyone use unfitting music for those kind of scenes.. but let me say that I don't ever want to see anything like this ever again.



Poor music selection: It completely killed the mood. In fact, it felt like a mockery and an insult.

[mit7059]

W. T. F.

I'm so angry right now I can barely see straight. Why? Why? Why does every anime where they actually put effort into the story line decide, hey now we're going to crush your soul. Why would you do that? I don't understand, why can't there ever be a happy ending? Throughout all of Clannad I was pissed because I would have rather seen Tomoya with Tomoyo or Kyou but then in AS I actually really liked Nagisa and grew attached to the storyline.
wtf? WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF?

1/10 for ruining my day.

[Skyfall]

Though I really don't remember what was the policy for episodes whose fansub has yet to be released bt whose RAW is already out.

This question just keeps popping up over time, doesn't it :heh: For series that have a subforum, the answer is very simple - You venture inside an episode thread, you are expected to face content of said episode. There is little that is more redundant than venturing inside an episode 16 thread, and find a post spoiler tagged as "episode 16" or variations of that. Well ...duh ? :heh: People are free to use spoiler tags if they wish so, of course, but episode 16 thread is expected to contain episode 16 content. Simple as that.

[Myssa Rei]

Key adaptation. Many people expected it, but it still hits as hard as a power fist, doesn't it?

[SidVicious]

This is just too sad. :(

[magnum]

Key adaptation. Many people expected it, but it still hits as hard as a power fist to the face, doesn't it?

Indeed that's true, maybe too much.

[Snooker]

"Only the good die young" .Remember Nagisa!!!!

[Ruhisu]

Key adaptation. Many people expected it, but it still hits as hard as a power fist, doesn't it?

I agree, I can still feel the pain in my heart but I think that without the movie it would be a much bigger surprise because after it I knew that she will die and I was only waiting for the episode but the pain is still strong.

[Shiroth]

Yeah, it happened. Good first half, though the minute the second half started i completely forgot about everything that just happened. Second have was extremely heart wrenching --- it was a lot worse going into this knowing the outcome. It's basically a horrible thing to witness when you know how it'll turn out, though i do very much like how they worked with it. Using the sketch Tomoya in the black, being brought into the light when the baby was born, something i really didn't expect. The big flashback scene is what finally done me in though, as they always do.

The didn't change the damn ED. Why the hell didn't they change the ED? I would have thought this part in the story would have had it's own song and ED, but no, we get the up-beat happy song. That was a bad choice.

[Zippicus]

This was a pretty harsh episode. I pretty much expected what was going to happen but it didn't make it any easier to watch. I'm expecting the next few episodes to be pretty brutal as well, but I'm holding out hope for a light at the end of the tunnel.

[Proto]

One has to give them credit for consistency and faithfulness to the original script. though "There wasn't a special ending in the original material. IT'S NOT IN THE SCRIPT. *ribbit*" :p

[SageGaiGar]

Yeah the ED was kind of like taking that knife and twisting it in the wound. Appropriate for 1st half... I almost think they should've switched the OP and ED around. But as pointed.. "It's not in the script". Have to admire such consistency a bit.

[minhtam1638]

I'll say this coming out of episode 16: It hurt. Bad. Really bad. It will be interesting to see how they will play out the remaining eight episodes after that.

[Ascaloth]

Episode 16 article is up:

[RIUVA] CLANNAD ~After Story~, Episode 16 (http://www.riuva.com/?p=1364)

It's not so much an article as it is a tribute; I just don't have the heart for a proper write-up. It's horribly painful, so much so that a 10/10 isn't quite enough.

[SuperKnuckles]

I sorta had to laugh morbidly at the super happy sunshine ED that came after. So abrupt. :heh:

I hoped they would have a special ED or something, like what most anime does when something big like that happens.

[Sinestra]

I have KyoAni's address if anyone would like to mail their mental therapy bills to them.

Well its the next day and i have had time to let things sit but as i sit here at work i still feel like crap i have not felt this bad since Air and that was a bad bad week. In the end i understand everything, why they did it and what message they were trying to portray over all it was nicely done.

There are multiple things you could point out with Nagisa's thinking I will give one example. Nagisa wanted to have Ushio no matter what but what Nagisa failed to think of really was the after effect long down the road. Ushio growing up without a mother will be very hard and Tomoya will always question himself weather he is raising Ushio properly in someways things are going to be worse for Tomoya and Ushio without Nagisa than if she were alive. Then there is Nagisa's parents all i will say is no parent should ever outlive their child EVER. There were pro's and cons to Nagisa giving birth or having an abortion the abortion had the probability to wreck her body as well. But it was Nagisa's choice and she choice life for Ushio instead of preserving her own that is already a true sign of parenthood.

I dont know why they didnt change ED it was almost like mockery of everything that had happen. All i know is that KyoAni next series better not be heart wrenching they owe us a happy ending. 8 more episodes to how are they are going to pull it off after something like this? This what anime is all about my friends to be able to spark such emotion in so many people.

9/10 the ED just killed it i had to take a point of for it.

[Meatrose]

Let's just hope they realize that a lot of fans were saddened to see Torch ruin the mood right after what happened. They could decide to swap it for the DVD release though. Such things do happen. I remember that Sunrise changed the ED for Stage 25 - Zero (the final episode of the first season of Code Geass) for the DVDs. That time it was the other way around though. It aired with a custom ED featuring the music from the first OP and they swapped it for the ED that was used for all the other stages of the second half of that season. In my opinion it was better before they changed it, but I hope that KyoAni will go for a swap as well, cause in this case it would make it a lot better. Heck, let Dango Daikazoku make a one-time reappearance if they don't feel like going for a custom ED. Anyhow, I'd be surprised if it happened. I guess we'll just have to learn to push pause at the right moment. :heh:

[Sheba]

Another way to do it is to not put any music at all, and let the silence speak for itself. I too think that the ED was out of place after such a gutwrenching scene.

[Rice_slayer]

Uhmm, I have the subs downloaded, too scared to watch it now :(. I will watch in during my 3rd period spare today, Need actual food anyways :).

[Jimmy C]

I suggest waiting until after classes to watch. The last part might leave you too upset to pay attention to class. Unless you don't want to pay attention to class.

[Narzia]

Sad, but not sad enough. I don't know why but it feels like they held back. Was it the strange choice of music (17:06 was great though)? Or that she woke up after they showed the ultimate face of death at 17:29 already? I don't know.

Makoto still reigns supreme.

On a side note, now i understand why Tomoyas father is like he is, judging from the preview. I hope they'll touch that subject later.

[Kristen]

I kind of feel like the rating of "1" needs a different name. Because this episode was painful, but it's not like it was a bad painful, it was a good painful.

At first I didn't like the New Year's scene with Kyou, Ryou, Kotomi, and Sunohara, feeling that it might ruin some parts of the story. But, Kyoani just did that scene so well, I can't complain. And they left before the birth, so it was just that much better.

I was a bit surprised in their choice of Umarekawatta Atarashii Seimei for the death scene, but you know, it fit really well. I was expecting something vocal sung in the background, but I suppose this worked.

The death scene was also pretty surprising. They went SHAFT on us! Then again, I guess you can assume that there was no other way to properly do that scene. Really have to isolate the new family, even if it was just for a couple of minutes.

The post-death scene seemed like a potential botch, but I realized what they are doing, which drags into spoilers, so I won't touch it.

ED was exactly as was said before. Twisting the knife in the wound. Though I really wish they did not do that and spend the extra money required to make a new ED.

9/10. Kyoani messed up on a lot of this episode, but the plot is just too strong to downrate it by much.

[SuperKnuckles]

I think the entire episode worked so perfectly. So they went a bit Shaft on us, but is that a bad thing? They did it without going overboard like they sometimes do in ef shows.

Also, it's really gutsy of them to show the entire second half almost entirely from Nagisa's first person perspective. That was just striking and bold of them.

[LemonMunchies]

They didn't change the ED... At least it cheered me up a bit.

...

...

...

Nagisaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! !!!!!!!!!

[typhonsentra]

Yeah, if any episode was going to get a lot of attention/discussion it'd be this one.

[FTV]

Hey guys... what if... they altered all those shots from the next episode to give them a sad tone... but the first part of the next episode is... everything is okay! That could happen right? RIGHT!? :upset: :thinker::T_T:

[Proto]

Who knows, that could happen I guess :heh:

[FTV]

Really!? =D

[Sheba]

Judging from the last thoughts of Tomoya (if I did this, it should not have happened, etc...), we are in for a very rough ride. I am guessing he is engaging on a path that is more self-destructive.

[FTV]

Great. Then just as he hits rock bottom, Ushio will do something Nagisa-like and he'll have an epiphany that in a way Nagisa never did leave him and he'll want to live again. DANG IT! SO LAME! What happened to my show about a couple becoming a family!?!?!

[FTV]

Okay I'll admit Ushio doing something Nagisa-like kind of does make me feel better but still WTF PEOPLE!?

[Kristen]

Hey guys... what if... they altered all those shots from the next episode to give them a sad tone... but the first part of the next episode is... everything is okay! That could happen right? RIGHT!? :upset: :thinker::T_T:

Hey, you never know. They did it with Kotomi asking if everyone was a bully and they agreed.

[Tempester]

:upset:

Arrrgh. Why did I have to watch the last episode of Cowboy Bebop today along with this? I was expecting what happened in Clannad, but not Cowboy Bebop. That hit me like a bullet in the gut. Today is like a double tragedy for me. :T_T:

[acr429]

seems like I lost the willingness to watch the rest of the episodes
I thought it was gonna be diferent than the movie but I guess NOT.

[Beo]

There is 1/3 of the episodes left, a lot yet to come there folks.

[Sinestra]

:upset:

Arrrgh. Why did I have to watch the last episode of Cowboy Bebop today along with this? I was expecting what happened in Clannad, but not Cowboy Bebop. That hit me like a bullet in the gut. Today is like a double tragedy for me. :T_T:

I tried to warn you friend.

[Tempester]

I tried to warn you friend.

:uhoh:
:rolleyes:

Haha, well thanks anyway pal. I appreciate it.

See you later, space co- I mean Nagisa.

[Vegard Aune]

Hey, you never know. They did it with Kotomi asking if everyone was a bully and they agreed.
But that was only in season one. After Story hasn't really had any intentionally misleading previews, as far as I can remember. So I'd say we can safely assume that the next episode will also be extremely depressing.

Oh, and now that I've slightly gotten over my initial state of being a total emotional wreck, I'll point out that the animation in the Illusionary World-scenes looked considerably worse than usual in this episode...

[TooPurePureBoy]

:upset:

Arrrgh. Why did I have to watch the last episode of Cowboy Bebop today along with this? I was expecting what happened in Clannad, but not Cowboy Bebop. That hit me like a bullet in the gut. Today is like a double tragedy for me. :T_T:

Oh my dear God! You must be in rough shape with that combo :(

I've shed tears for quite a few anime in the past but this is probably the most ever for me. Not only did I shed tears, I actually had the lip quiver going....I may have even made a "puu" sound ......:T_T:

I saw it coming even though I have never read spoilers about this game, but now it looks like we are going to get a slap across the face with the irony-stick as Tomoya now becomes like his father. Hopefully Ushio inherits Nagisa's natural kindness and brings Tomoya back from the brink.

I don't blame Tomoya for his sadness, if I ever had a person like Nagisa and then lost her I'd probably be pretty devastated too. Might even consider joining her on the other side if I were him. :( But considering the sacrifice :bow: Nagisa made in order to bring Ushio into this world, Tomoya better not even consider it, he has a duty to raise Ushio well in response to her sacrifice.

Anyway, really well done episode that I wish was never ever made. I want the Super-happy-ending dammit. Or I'd at least settle for the Scooby-Doo ending or something... just not this. :T_T:

[FTV]

I wonder if after Tomoya gets better he'll end up remarrying one of the other Op girls. :uhoh::twitch::eyespin::heh:

[TooPurePureBoy]

I wonder if after Tomoya gets better he'll end up remarrying one of the other Op girls. :uhoh::twitch::eyespin::heh:

Blasphemy so soon?! Surely you jest sir! :heh:

[FTV]

lol
You shouldn't have ever met her!? I shouldn't have WATCHED THIS SHOW!

[rave_master16]

-_- 0_0 ;_; T_T
Nagisa dies.
The World Cries.

[Rice_slayer]

I suggest waiting until after classes to watch. The last part might leave you too upset to pay attention to class. Unless you don't want to pay attention to class.

Dang you were right:upset: I dont want to go back to class now! The first half was happy, then the second half hit like a bag of hammers. Sadest Episode of any anime I have watched :(

[MeoTwister5]

Gah. I probably retyped this maybe 3 times for the places I posted and provided it for. One of the more difficult things I've had to type in... well a long time...

----------------

The White Darkness.

Classic symbolism, the direct comparison of two opposing words intending for it to mean the same thing. Honestly if I never played the game I probably would not have understood what it reall means. White darkness could easily mean so many different things.

But for the case of this particular moment of human suffering, I can but imagine the icy cold snow. It can kill humans in minutes, it covers life and makes it barren, it shapes the land by force and will. To some, a harbinger of joy. To others, of doom. The snow that envelopes the earth and robs it of its life and warmth. It reminds of a blank white slate of beginning, or should I say, erases everything back into a blank white slate.

A white blanketing sheet, terrifying in its almost magestic beauty that hides death underneath.

Both the real and illusionary world are slowly being covered by the snow. The robot hastily builds their flying machine as the girl in the ended world weakens daily. Escape is the only means of salvation for both, if either were to find the happiness that had always eluded them.

"There could be other worlds out there"

Maybe I'm getting jaded too fast and too young, but I miss gatherings like this. Old friends who have moved in separate ways yet have a single common place where they can be together again. Gathering together I assume near the end of Nagisa's last trimester, they ponder just how far their lives have gone at that point. They question their travels they have gone, but as for the presumably still single ones go, wonder if the Okazaki's have gone farther than they have.

And as the occassion goes forward, we are then treated to a simplified discussion on String Theory. There have always been times where I wondered if the writers of this tale had theoretical physics in mind, once considering the soundness of some of the ideas it had in comparison to beliefs in multiple dimenshions. Perhaps Key had something going on during production, but at the end we never really see the science of it all, perhaps just the humanity.

What are these worlds, exactly? A game vet will answer with his own interpretation, but this is at the heart of this tale of love, loss, and redemption. To say more may be a sin, and I assume KyotoAni knows well enough to provide this information.

"Maybe I've come to hate this place..."

Despair is surely a powerful and all-encompassing feeling. It feeds on fear, insecurities, doubts and its ilk. As the steel frames of the hospital rise, the father and the grandfather share their thoughts on the event that creeps ever closer to their already tormented lives. Tomoya still feels the curse of the city that seems to want to torment him. In a city that gave him nothing but sadness and loneliness and he found just one beacon of light in this white darkness. A light that was slowly fading away.

Did he feel hatred because the town was punishing Nagisa? Did he feel hatred that Nagisa was being punished because of him? I really don't know the answer to that. Despite all his monologues and statements, it has never been clearly said. All we know is that this town where he grew up in has perhaps never been anything but cruel to him. And now in his most dire of hours, it seeks to punish him again.

Not just him, but also the one most precious to him.

"Please... let me rest for a little bit..."

And so it begins...

Crap.

Everyone who has ever played the game has been afraid of this moment. The central event of Clannad occurring in a tiny apartment, in the middle of a spiteful snowstorm, between a man, a woman, and a child. Their child.

I have to admit it now. Rarely do I see that an adaptation can surpass its original material in sheer delivery and execution, but this is one of those times. I have to admit that having been through this exact scene before in a different format, I thought I wouldn't be affected as I was the first time. Boy was I farking wrong. I needed a hand towel, just like before.

For some people, going into labor could be considered a not-so-rare occurrence. Then again, not all pregnant bodies can handle the stress of labor when it isn't the time yet, and again I doubt Nagisa was one of them.

But labor is a finicky master. If it comes, it comes. The painful writhing of a mother delivering her first born is a difficult sight to behold even though I have seen it before. In Nagisa's case... god almighty... the mere fact of the dangers involved and the possible outcomes it may have is a dagger of much sharper make.

Husbands can only but watch in their own agony, knowing too well that there really isn't a damn thing they can do about it. All they can do is clasp her hand, tightly, and be there for her. For their child.

All one can do is pray and hope for their safety.

"18:57"

Cue excessive bawwing here.

What is 18:57? Based on AQS' sub, you'll notice that Nagisa open her mouth in her struggle to speak, but we don't hear anything audibly. Tomoya asked her a question beforehand and she tries to answer, but all we get is the 18th minute, 57th second. Nagisa speaks a word neither the watcher nor Tomoya could here.

This may have essentially been... the last words that Nagisa said. A word nobody was able to hear.

This, for me, is the moment I will always remember for this episode.

Final words, spoken, yet unheard. Nobody knows what she said, and that's what makes it all the more painful....

"This is our daughter, Ushio"

The infamous monologue. Freaking heart wrenching as it was, even more so that it is spoken.

Hopes for the future as they both had wished. How they'd try to raise their child, how she'd become a crybaby like her mom. How they'd be there for her first day in school. So many wishes, so many dreams.

Is this the end of such a dream?

"You said we'd always be together..."

The hand goes limp. Looking at the scene, I can tell myself that her skin had suddenly become pale. Tomoya struggles to hold her hand, but her hand no longer holds his. The hand is lifeless. He tries to make her feel Ushio's face, but again the hand falls to the floor, lifeless, empty, barren.

He can only but remember the days he spent with the one most precious to him, all the way from the very recent to the very past.

The proposal of marriage. The moving out into an apartment. Her graduation day. His graduation day. The times spent with friends and family. The moment he declared his love for her. The time spent rebuilding the drama club. The day they ate lunch in the school grounds.

All the way to the day they met... at the bottom of that hill... one April morning...

"Do you like this school...?"

It is that day again. The day they met, on the bottom of that hill, to the blossoming cherry trees. Only this time, he does not answer her.

What then would it have been like? What would it have been like if they never met? Never spoke? What would it have been like if these two never knew each other? Would Nagisa have survived? Would she have lived without pain? Would she have been able to live a full life, not dying in the middle of childbirth? Would she have found greater happiness?

As Tomoya thinks, Nagisa passes by him, down the hill and away from school. He does not speak. He only watches her walk away. Into the white darkness.

Reality would beckon for Tomoya again. Ushio is now in his arms, on the futon the lifeless body of the one most precious to him. He must now, again, live his life.

A life without Nagisa.

----------------

Good Lord. Maybe I need to see a therapist at some point.:uhoh:

[Ithekro]

I went to bed several hours after watching more humorous shows (Minami-ke).

Woke up early with a headache and realized after a while that I'd been crying because I was looping "Dango Daikazoku" in my head.

[Kouvley]

It didn't come as a suprise what happened since the foreshadowing was quite obvious but it still hit like a ton of bricks. Heart wrenching stuff.

I agree they could have used a more fitting ending song but it's no big deal, I think we should judge the episode on it's actual content rather than penalize it for this and besides, don't most people skip to the previews anyway?

but now it looks like we are going to get a slap across the face with the irony-stick as Tomoya now becomes like his father.

Agreed.

For the remainder of this show I think we will see Tomoya gradually realize this and perhaps reconcile with his father.

I'm still not sure how the hidden/illusionary world and light orbs will play into this though. Maybe we will get a happy ending in some kind of alternate dimension/timeline?

[SageGaiGar]

Oh my dear God! You must be in rough shape with that combo :(

I've shed tears for quite a few anime in the past but this is probably the most ever for me. Not only did I shed tears, I actually had the lip quiver going....I may have even made a "puu" sound ......:T_T:

I saw it coming even though I have never read spoilers about this game, but now it looks like we are going to get a slap across the face with the irony-stick as Tomoya now becomes like his father. Hopefully Ushio inherits Nagisa's natural kindness and brings Tomoya back from the brink.

I don't blame Tomoya for his sadness, if I ever had a person like Nagisa and then lost her I'd probably be pretty devastated too. Might even consider joining her on the other side if I were him. :( But considering the sacrifice :bow: Nagisa made in order to bring Ushio into this world, Tomoya better not even consider it, he has a duty to raise Ushio well in response to her sacrifice.

Anyway, really well done episode that I wish was never ever made. I want the Super-happy-ending dammit. Or I'd at least settle for the Scooby-Doo ending or something... just not this. :T_T:

You've gotta carry that weight.

[hero147]

Awww man....Maybe I shouldn't have watched this episode and stopped right at 15....when everything was still fine and happy.

[Pai]

I'm reading other forums and blogs and I noticed so many Nagisa's haters... Why? :( :T_T:
So cruel...

[IRJustman]

You've gotta carry that weight.

*cues the Beatles*

But yeah, there are eight more episodes to go in the series, and a LOT can happen in those eight episodes, depending on how the story is paced. Or more accurately, on how the VN was paced.

--Ian.

[FTV]

I move that the products of these mad sadness scientists include warnings and disclaimers as to the profound psychological effects they seek to inflict, namely, the freaking crazy weepies!

[FTV]

I'm reading other forums and blogs and I noticed so many Nagisa's haters... Why? :( :T_T:
So cruel...

Don't worry, it's just one of the stages of loss.

[fattybats]

Wahhh! I was so happy just 30 minutes ago!

[cbatty]

Finally watched the ep - didn't want to see it before sleeping last night as it would probably keep me awake and I need to drive 4 hours to do an install today.. yet now that I have seen it the effect still hits me like a ton of bricks.

Not many anime stories have brought me to tears - tears of sadness anyway - Air did, but this one far surpasses that. As I said in an earlier post, we have come to know the characters much better in Clannad. We have seen their trials and triumphs, happy times and sad times. And this is definitely the saddest time.

Only 8 episodes to go. I hope there is some happiness for Tomoya and Ushio.

[Avacado Burger]

Goddammit! After watching this, it feels like I lost my OWN wife!. I think I'll be brooding the rest of the night.

See, I knew this was going to happen, but it was a matter of WHEN and not IF. The last few episodes were squeezing my heart in a vice grip, and episode 16 was the final turn before it broke.

And TORCH right after that scene?! Seriously?!

[LunarSun]

it feels like im watching the last episode of AIR all over again >.<

[SSJiffy]

****. The 2nd part of this episode had me on the brink of crying. It was an emotional rollercoaster and it's not over by a long shot. I'm very concerned for Tomoya's mental health as well as what will happen with Ushio.

[panzerfan]

To be frank, I don't think I can think of Tomoya without actually considering what had happened to Naoyuki, and then of course the Furukawa family.

By no mean is the journey of life over for those that's alive, and to think that I, with not even 24 years of existance already have a distaste in seeing someone off to 6 feet under.

I think i'd be weeping to soundtracks involving Nagisa for a while, this I am certain.

[SnackPacs]

it feels like im watching the last episode of AIR all over again >.<

For some I suppose, but for select few, Air probably had more potential to hit home for people in a mother/child relationship rather than the husband mentally dependent on wife relationship.

Still, this was heartbreaking and I was getting sad shivers before the second half began... And then once they entered that scene where everything had a white hue and there was pretty much strictly a white background, it really just went downhill for me.

Most interesting point of the episode for me though was the brief moment where Tomoya recalled the whole mentioning of the other world and whatnot, came out of nowhere but it was still a surreal moment for the episode.

Luckily, I have already recovered from the episode and will manage to go on for the weekend without too much to worry about. I'm glad I got this out of the way and didn't wait.

[maverickudo]

-cries- i read wikipedia....i spoiled the last few episodes for myself. i won't spoil it here though. most of us knew it was coming..but the episode was teasing you for a bit though..like..maybe she WONT die..but you knew u were lying to urself. lol it looked great. interesting choice about home birth and all. tomaya earned his oscar there.

[Haruyasha]

it feels like im watching the last episode of AIR all over again >.<

You can't even compare the two. The last episode of AIR perfectly conveyed the emotion of loss and could put tears into eyes.

Clannad's attempt was a joke beyond all jokes.

It focuses too much on Ushio's birth rather than the death of Nagisa.

I believe the Clannad movie's execution was a lot better.. partially for not playing that stupid happy-themed Dango song.. and instead having weak little Nagisa sing it under her breath.

Just like a mentioned above. This show isn't about Ushio.. While Ushio's birth is amazing and all.. this is Okazaki Tomoya we're talking about.. the jerk who could care less about people, much less Ushio. Tomoya would be much more fixated on the death of Nagisa rather than Ushio's birth.. so playing that happy music is pointless as it puts Tomoya completely out of character.

[GreatTeacherKen]

. . .


Wow.

The snow looked real nice this episode, gave me some nostalgic memories of Kanon.


Speaking of nostalgia, it was cool seeing how everyone else had been doing.


The last montage was beautiful and uh. . .


. . .



I'll think I'll go off in my corner and sob now. :upset:


10/10. Painful episode, but in the best way possible. I just need some time to get over my favorite character's death. :sad:

[Sinestra]

Im really worried about me losing interest in the remaining episodes. I have not played the game so i don't know what comes next i mean how much more are they going to cover? Is it going to more depression from here on out? or could we get some cosmic reset involving Nagisa with symbolism behind it. I understand that Nagisa is not coming back but im sure her presence will be felt through out the remainder of the series. We havent touched on the imaginary world we keep seeing at the beginning of each episode.

is anyone having these same feelings?

[Haruyasha]

Im really worried about me losing interest in the remaining episodes. I have not played the game so i don't know what comes next i mean how much more are they going to cover? Is it going to more depression from here on out? or could we get some cosmic reset involving Nagisa with symbolism behind it. I understand that Nagisa is not coming back but im sure her presence will be felt through out the remainder of the series. We havent touched on the imaginary world we keep seeing at the beginning of each episode.

is anyone having these same feelings?

Heh, answering such a question would lead to spoiling of future events. (Probably not a good idea to ask it in this thread specifically.)

Although I can say this much.. we have Ushio now, and we still have about 8 episodes left.. so that should be plenty to wrap things up over at the illusion world too.

The illusion world, from what I gather over the entire 2 seasons of Clannad, reflects Okazaki's life in a way. When Okazaki reaches a conclusion, I'm sure the illusion world will do the same.

[kk2extreme]

so sad... wow it so say that it is good, the last time that i saw something similar to this is with makoto in kanon 2006.

p.s. still sobbing, im gonna watch a comedy to balance my sadness :sad:

[Proto]

the jerk who could care less about people

/me welcomes Haruyasha to ep.15(+/- 1) of S1.

No wait, scrap that, what series have you been watching anyway?

Tomoya would be much more fixated on the death of Nagisa rather than Ushio's birth.. so playing that happy music is pointless as it puts Tomoya completely out of character.

Maybe if you hadn't been fast asleep in that Universal literature lecture you would remember that it is an oxymoron, an artistic resource that involves the mixture of two opposed ideas to produce a certain reaction from the apparent contradiction. An example I can remember right now is Stanley Kubrick's A Clockwork Orange, in many of the more extreme scenes of the movie (murder,suicide,rape), while they happen Beethoven 9th symphony 'Ode to Joy' plays in the background.

BTW it wasn't Dango Daikazoku, but an arrangement on Nagisa's theme.

[Kaisos Erranon]

I was a bit surprised in their choice of Umarekawatta Atarashii Seimei for the death scene, but you know, it fit really well. I was expecting something vocal sung in the background, but I suppose this worked.

Sorry, what song is that...?

You can't even compare the two. The last episode of AIR perfectly conveyed the emotion of loss and could put tears into eyes.

Clannad's attempt was a joke beyond all jokes.

It focuses too much on Ushio's birth rather than the death of Nagisa.

I believe the Clannad movie's execution was a lot better.. partially for not playing that stupid happy-themed Dango song.. and instead having weak little Nagisa sing it under her breath.

Just like a mentioned above. This show isn't about Ushio.. While Ushio's birth is amazing and all.. this is Okazaki Tomoya we're talking about.. the jerk who could care less about people, much less Ushio. Tomoya would be much more fixated on the death of Nagisa rather than Ushio's birth.. so playing that happy music is pointless as it puts Tomoya completely out of character.

Wow. You've seriously managed to impress me.

The dango song is not a happy song. It was not meant to be a happy song, and it never will be a happy song.

...Are we watching the same show?


Anyway, bloody fantastic episode. Epic ten out of ten is ten out of ten.

Really gotta credit Yuuichi Nakamura for his performance here. Really damned good job of bringing out emotion.

No wonder I didn't cry when this happened in the game. Tomoya isn't voiced... -_-

[panzerfan]

To Haruyasha and others that merely focus on Tomoya...

That scope is too narrow in itself to consider. Naoyuki of course would've been guilty of the same gross irresponsibility that you've perceived from Tomoya, but what of Sanae and Akio? Please don't become preoccupied with only Tomoya that you lose perspective on the wider scale over the actual impact from the event.

If you say 'focus on death of Nagasa instead of birth of Ushio', aren't you also being conceited as Tomoya who is now accused to be just as such?

To those that might have become deadened in emotional response by having been spoiled, I say to please think of the scenario, this all-too-ordinary scenario that I've no doubt shouldn't be too distant a thought for you. Young couple that made the step to bear children and start a family of their own, couples that decided to not go that route, people that dread the notion of having a family at this stage of life... many here fall within the age that this becomes common sight. If you evaluate this episode from the bigger picture, it won't be so limited by whatever outcome that you've stumbled upon anymore.

[LunarSun]

-cries- i read wikipedia....i spoiled the last few episodes for myself. i won't spoil it here though. most of us knew it was coming..but the episode was teasing you for a bit though..like..maybe she WONT die..but you knew u were lying to urself. lol it looked great. interesting choice about home birth and all. tomaya earned his oscar there.

i read wikipedia too after i saw ur post lol......*hitting my head on the wall*
now i regret it

but the story seemed pretty good so i hope they follow the game story

and yes.. air's ending was alot more emotional than this ep but understand theres still 10 episode left if they added a scene like the ending of air the next 10 ep will seem plain and dull

[Haruyasha]

BTW it wasn't Dango Daikazoku, but an arrangement on Nagisa's theme.

Dango theme is the same thing as Nagisa minus the lyrics.

Wow. You've seriously managed to impress me.

The dango song is not a happy song. It was not meant to be a happy song, and it never will be a happy song.

A song which sings about family and a sense of belonging is not a happy song? It's supposed to give you a warm fuzzy feeling. :rolleyes:

All the more to prove my point that using such a theme is like using reverse psychology on the viewers.

[OmegaPhlare]

You can't even compare the two. The last episode of AIR perfectly conveyed the emotion of loss and could put tears into eyes.

Clannad's attempt was a joke beyond all jokes.

It focuses too much on Ushio's birth rather than the death of Nagisa.

I believe the Clannad movie's execution was a lot better.. partially for not playing that stupid happy-themed Dango song.. and instead having weak little Nagisa sing it under her breath.

Just like a mentioned above. This show isn't about Ushio.. While Ushio's birth is amazing and all.. this is Okazaki Tomoya we're talking about.. the jerk who could care less about people, much less Ushio. Tomoya would be much more fixated on the death of Nagisa rather than Ushio's birth.. so playing that happy music is pointless as it puts Tomoya completely out of character.

You really feel that way? Perhaps you might have been paying too much attention to Ushio's crying rather than observing Tomoya or trying to empathize him. Other than the point where Tomoya himself looks at the baby, my entire focus was on Tomoya's expression and how far Nagisa was exhausted. I feel like this birth had almost nothing to do with the baby so much as it had to do with them. Yes, Tomoya tries to move the focus onto Ushio, but honestly, you know that he just wants Nagisa to stay with him that moment.

---

It pains me so much to to see the family during that scene; far beyond that last scene in AIR. AIR was the loss of a very important character as seen from a third person's perspective, but CLANNAD was the loss of a very important character who was the true love of a character you are supposed to feeling like.

Misuzu was a very special person, but she didn't risk her own life to do give the gift of life. It was just one small life, but to Nagisa, that life was more important than her own. Brilliant.

[kk2extreme]

There are some heartless people out there who did not see the emotional impact in this ep. Clannad is about spring, birth of lives. of course it would be focus on the birth of ushio, nagisa's death is so sad, im surprised that i read some heartless commands on how this ep and did anyone see how sad and hopeless emotion of tomoya, for someone who is seeing the death of his wife in exchange for the life of the baby, this adds to the emotional impact for me, and nagisa i salute you. I dont think tomoya could act any other ways than this. For me this is the best ep yet in both seasons.

[Ithekro]

If the Clannad TV version of Dango Daikazoku is suppose to be a happy song...why does it make me want to cry? Even during the first season it started having that effect.

The movie version of Dango Daikazoku is rather uplifting. It is all about arrangement of the music. The TV version's lyrics are suppose to be uplifting, but the musical score (Nagisa's theme and I think another theme as well) counterpoint them depending on what point of the song you are at. The middle seems to have hope...but the beginning and ending of it...can be painful if it tries.

As for the episode:

During the focused exchange between Tomoya and Nagisa in the white...You can't see anyone else aside from those two and the baby. Even though there are three other people in the room. And I could swear I could hear them once or twice during the scene...but was unable to pick out what they said.
To quote a similarly voiced character: "Kana. Kana."

[Kaisos Erranon]

Dango theme is the same thing as Nagisa minus the lyrics.

They're actually somewhat different. The Dango theme uses the opening strains of the Nagisa theme, but the rest of the song is to the tune of Chiisana Tenohira, the True End theme.

Of course, Chiisana Tenohira is just a vocal remix of the Nagisa theme. But still.


A song which sings about family and a sense of belonging is not a happy song? It's supposed to give you a warm fuzzy feeling. :rolleyes:

All the more to prove my point that using such a theme is like using reverse psychology on the viewers.

Nail. Head. Hit.

That's the entire damn point of the song. It's supposed to SOUND happy. But it's not a happy song.

Look at it like this: That song was written FOR the death scene. It's the song that plays WHILE SHE DIES.

Is it a happy song now?

[typhonsentra]

You know the post that got deleted wasn't actually a hint of anything.... I was referring to the rather blatant and aggressive foreshadowing the past two seasons rather than any inside information from the game.

[Divini]

On the topic of songs, try watching the OP sequence again after watching this episode.

Not only will gain more clarity at the meaning of the lyrics, but you'll also feel empathy at the 'theme' of the song, the theme being Reminiscing

For me, it also made me feel sad at it flooded me with memories of Nagisa :upset:

[harukamae]

My brothers and sisters....

Please take a moment to hug a Dango in remembrance...


Seriously though, I thought things may play out this way, but I didn't think it would make me tear up the way it did!! KyoAni did pretty well with the whole thing!

[GameMaster0000]

After I see subbed. It's make me cry more than raw.

Seem here no one focus on Tomoya's emotion

He flame himself that he is the cause of Nagisa dead, he think that if he not call her on at that time they first met together. Nagisa won't put effort give ushio birth and she dies and they not met sadness like this.

[sayde]

Wow.

So she's really dead!?

I didn't get that impression based on the way the music sounded during those scenes. It just didn't sound sad enough for someone who's dying IMO. It was really misleading. That music combined with the overall light-hearted tone of the series and the fact that she was slipping in and out of consciousness while going through labor had me convinced that she ended up simply falling unconscious again (or slipped into a temporary coma at the worst) The standard ED also didn't help matters much.

Apparently I was wrong. I'm just grateful that I couldn't bring myself to get nearly as attached to the whole TomoyaxNagisa pair as some of the rest of you. Otherwise, I think my entire week would've just been ruined.

I know it may sound cruel, but I can't wait to see what the rest of the series has in store now that Nagisa's gone. I was pretty convinced this anime was going to go the way of "Itazura na Kiss" by having Nagisa pull through and having the last one or two episodes be extremely happy and light-hearted.

btw, if you're looking for a feel-good romance comedy anime to watch to get your mind off this, I highly recommend the anime I mentioned above. It made me feel so warm and fuzzy inside. It's perhaps the one and only example of an anime that can brighten my day up by merely thinking about it (which is really rare and incredibly weird for me).

[Shiroi Hane]

Another way to do it is to not put any music at all, and let the silence speak for itself. I too think that the ED was out of place after such a gutwrenching scene.
Like the credits for the final episode of Doctor Who: Earthshock. Have any other series done this more recently? I'm sure I've seen something where the ED was replaced by the sound of rain but I can't put my finger on it.

[hydropod]

As a gamer I thought I make it through the episode without crying, but at 19:43-44 I still completely lost it. That little sigh from Nagisa.... was that a sigh of contentment, or a sigh of regret? Comepletely lost control of my tears rght there.:(

[Zeroseraph]

Damn I knew this was coming but it still hits you very hard and even worst for me is that my friend sent me the full episode with the crappy ED replaced with the full version of Dango Daikazoku. So being able to see it with that song drove a nail threw my heart and i couldn't stop crying just sitting and just in such a deep thought at the sadness and beauty of the episode.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

I just watched the episode.

T_T

[SnackPacs]

You can't even compare the two. The last episode of AIR perfectly conveyed the emotion of loss and could put tears into eyes.

Clannad's attempt was a joke beyond all jokes.

It focuses too much on Ushio's birth rather than the death of Nagisa.



I think it came off to you wrong or you hadn't been led in properly. Because I myself wasn't focused on Ushio's birth in anyway at all. The pain Nagisa went through, the suffering of her labor, only to have it take so much energy out of her to end her life... That's what I saw in the scene. The music was representing the fruition and their desire to make a family but... It came at a cost. =/

Tomoya... just doesn't realize yet that because Nagisa is gone doesn't mean it's the end of all that around him. Yes, we know he loved Nagisa more than anything in the world but if I had to bet, he'll probably come to realize that even though she's gone, she could live on through Ushio or at the least, he could give as much parental love to Ushio as he gave romantic love towards Nagisa.

But the trauma is just going to be too dramatic. This is honestly... A bad episode for anyone with bitterness towards where the show was going, with her death and whatnot, to see now with no episode to follow afterward for a week...

Really, this is more of a two parter than last week's episode was IMHO.

[panzerfan]

friend sent me the full episode with the crappy ED replaced with the full version of Dango Daikazoku.
That is despicable... which dubber was evil enough to commit such an atrocity....

[chrisbad726]

:T_T: Nagisa death was just so sad thinking about the episode makes me want cry a little more.

[Ithekro]

Originally Posted by Zeroseraph
friend sent me the full episode with the crappy ED replaced with the full version of Dango Daikazoku.


I would think that would put someone into tears beyond tears.

[Ushio]

I didn't expect to cry this hard.

[chrisbad726]

I didn't expect to cry this hard.

i know me neither.

[JPZ]

HIts so hard i felt like voting one for a second...

and yea if you have the OST just play the dango song or nagisa's theme after the last scene, it will slay you.

[Loc]

oh man, i was afraid of this point of the series.

[Taricitous]

baby born with hair .... ummm yea .... i wonder what would happen if they really didn't meet 0.0

[Ceral]

Truly one of the most tearjerking scenes ever made in any form of media takes place in the last half of this episode. Much like the passing away of Misuzu in the final episode of Air, Nagisa's final moments are done so well that I could replay the scene anytime, anywhere, and I would surely offer up some tears for some of the most beloved characters ever to grace our screens. However, I feel the need to voice a complaint that has been eating away at me since I've started watching After Story. The scene in my mind is not as special as it could have been. You see, during her last scene, I said farewell to the Nagisa I knew that was kind, sweet, intelligent and who was at times very shy and timid which just made her even cuter in my mind. This was the Nagisa I knew from the first season, but not the Nagisa I was seeing in After Story. During the first season I took Nagisa very seriously and I thought she was a complete character, but I did not feel as close to her character in After Story as I did during the first season, and the impact of all of the scenes from After Story I feel were considerably weakened.

The problem, I felt, was that she was the brunt of many jokes early on; jokes like the ones about her thinking that Tomoya liked her Mom. They were silly and they did what was intended, to make the viewer laugh, but I felt that they were hurting her as a character by making her seem so silly. They could have made her seem intelligent again by giving her some thoughtful lines, but many of the lines she got were just cliche and expected, some of the lines just involved her saying "Tomoya-kun" in an inquisitive tone as if she was too dumb to speak out a full sentence. To me, it felt as if they were mocking her character more than trying to make her seem lovable. Thinking back, I don't think that she got many intelligent lines until the episode before this one where they were talking about naming the baby. The death scene, although especially tear-inducing, did not have that "special" feel like Makoto, Fuko, or Misuzu's final scenes. I cannot help but think this is a result of constant mocking on KyoAni's part. Which, for me, destroyed the persona of Nagisa being the sweet, intelligent, timid and shy girl who was so lovable in the first season in my mind. I will admit that making her seem like a dunce worked really well in the situations that were meant to be done comedically. But it hurt the series for me as a whole. I mean Clannad is first and foremost a drama right? I think it's just wrong for them to have sacrificed dramatic effect for comedic effect.

Before the start of After Story, I really thought this was going to be my favorite series of all time, just based on reading the wiki and watching the movie, but I have to say the movie is a more significant piece of work to me so far. I am just disappointed with KyoAni, I think, the first time I can say that...

[Vegard Aune]

They're actually somewhat different. The Dango theme uses the opening strains of the Nagisa theme, but the rest of the song is to the tune of Chiisana Tenohira, the True End theme.

Of course, Chiisana Tenohira is just a vocal remix of the Nagisa theme. But still.
Um, not really... Dango Daikazoku followed Nagisa's theme-song precisely, from start to end. One could literarily use Nagisa's theme as a karaoke for Dango Daikazoku and it would fit perfectly. On the other hand, Chiisana Tenohira only samples the tune from Nagisa's theme during the chorus and certain instrumental sections.

[RandomFlameStrike]

Gah being spoiled really sucks, I didn't feel the least bit moved for some reason. There must be something wrong with my brain. Also I face palmed when the crappy ED came up.

[MUAHAHAHAHAHA]

Gah being spoiled really sucks, I didn't feel the least bit moved for some reason. There must be something wrong with my brain. Also I face palmed when the crappy ED came up.

Dude, you are not alone. I am worse than you.I didn't even feel anything. Should they changed the ED to a more melancholic one perhaps i would feel something.My friend beside me actually covered her mouth during the scene.I think i wasn't really concentrating on the show, i kept staring at her.

[Haruyasha]

Nail. Head. Hit.

That's the entire damn point of the song. It's supposed to SOUND happy. But it's not a happy song.

Look at it like this: That song was written FOR the death scene. It's the song that plays WHILE SHE DIES.

Is it a happy song now?

Yes, because it wasn't created for a death scene. :eyebrow:

The only reason it was used was because Nagisa was introduced with it, though it wasn't the smartest move to make.

Misuzu wasn't introduced with Aozora, was she now?

[RandomFlameStrike]

Meh well I cried a river when I read it in the VN for the first time, but even though kyoani did such a wonderful job I'm thinking "Hm OK cue dramatic Nagisa death scene that I know is coming". For some reason I didn't feel connected to the characters in the anime x.x

[Moonie]

I regret myself for watching it at a very bad time which is during the night. I ended up having no sleep at all because of the heartache I had and heavily crying for an hour. T_T

I just looked at the episode title screen and there's a total of 12 light orbs. Where the exact total amount of light orbs from the game is 13 so that makes only 1 more is left. So, who's missing? K****i H*****i ? D:

[ADD899]

I feel sad for Nagisa.... T_T

[typhonsentra]

The fact that it's a marketing jingle always makes me think back to this one episode of The Simpsons:

Lisa: Doesn't this family know any songs that aren't commercials?

Everyone: ..... I feel like chicken tonight, like chicken tonight......

[Vegard Aune]

Yes, because it wasn't created for a death scene. :eyebrow:
Really? Then explain why the track-name is in fact "Nagisa ~ Parting at the Bottom of the Hill". It was TOTALLY created for this particular scene. And I, for one, couldn't possibly think of anything that would work better.

[Skyfall]

baby born with hair .... ummm yea .... i wonder what would happen if they really didn't meet 0.0

You are aware that it is perfectly normal for a newborn baby to have hair, and that it does not necessarily happen any less often than being born bald, right ? ;)

[kim8268]

If this is the first time youre gonna watch ep 16 let me warn you
For girls : ready a Stuff animal or your favorite pillow beside you
For boys: The person you dispise the Most

[Rice_slayer]

You are aware that it is perfectly normal for a newborn baby to have hair, and that it does not necessarily happen any less often than being born bald, right ? ;)

He's right, my niece was born with LOTS of hair actually. Not uncommon, sad thing is we only saw a blurred image of ushio :(. Next episode looks...gloomy :(.

[Generic Asian Guy]

OH MY GOD. :upset:

[Master Chibi]

Well.....

Now I know why people kept egging me on to keep watching.

To be brutally honest, I got a little teary eyed when the baby first started crying.

But nothing else after that. And I haven't played the VN either.

I do not dismiss the scene being done really well (outside of the literal FILMSTRIP OF YOUR LIFE BEFORE YOU DIE bit) though.

:\

[Klashikari]

The filmstrip is rather how Tomoya has a huge memories replay once he realized Nagisa is no longer.
That gives lots of emphasis on how long the time he could spend with her and that these will be the only images he can have of her from now on.

[Sinestra]

I wonder if Shio-chan will have issues when she gets older and learns that her mother died giving birth to her. These kinds of situations are really touchy sometimes as the child feels they are the reason for their mother passing away. Such thoughts as "if had not been born mother would still be alive" Iv seen it anime before i cant think of any right now to save my life.

Oh if we thought this episode was sad i figure the funeral for Nagisa will be another tear jerker as im sure all the gang will be there and the look on Tomoya's face will just make the depression seep in more.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Um, not really... Dango Daikazoku followed Nagisa's theme-song precisely, from start to end. One could literarily use Nagisa's theme as a karaoke for Dango Daikazoku and it would fit perfectly. On the other hand, Chiisana Tenohira only samples the tune from Nagisa's theme during the chorus and certain instrumental sections.

I really don't remember Nagisa's theme having the middle parts of Dango Daikazoku...

But I'll give it a listen again, I suppose.

Yes, because it wasn't created for a death scene. :eyebrow:

The only reason it was used was because Nagisa was introduced with it, though it wasn't the smartest move to make.

Misuzu wasn't introduced with Aozora, was she now?

It never plays during happy moments. Never. Only during touching and sad ones.

Well.....

Now I know why people kept egging me on to keep watching.
:\

SEE?

This was definitely way worse than the game, also. Worse as in saddening. Not in quality.

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

OMG What the hell just happen? Damn I should of prepare myself for that shock but I was expecting it though. I love the ending song but that killed everything.

[Isekaijin]

I've just finished watching this episode...

I really don't know what to say... I prepared myself for this, I knew perfectly for what was coming but in the end... didn't work I guess.

Nagisa's demise was by far the most touching moment I've ever seen in any anime. Even more than Air, and god knows how much I cried back then. The strange thing is that I didn't even shed a tear this time. But I can't smile either. Briefly taking the place of Tomoya, I suddenly felt the world that was changing was an insult to her death... Poor guy. Dark days are awaiting him.

Seeing a Clannad without Nagisa will be hard, but I just want to see how this will end.

[extra]

Really sad............. and Tomoya kun is getting pain mode...............

But it was only beginning...........

I wonder how Kyoto animation will make this.....

Bad end or happy end?

[Anime Daisuki]

The choice of music being played was absolutely horrible. The scene in itself was done extremely well, especially up until the end where they replayed the first episode. The music just seems so out of place and the ED was like a slap in the face. Music ruined it for me, 8/10.

[Myssa Rei]

I do not dismiss the scene being done really well (outside of the literal FILMSTRIP OF YOUR LIFE BEFORE YOU DIE bit) though.

:\

That's hardly fair, since it was Tomoya doing the reminiscing, and not Nagisa.

[Generic Asian Guy]

The choice of music being played was absolutely horrible. The scene in itself was done extremely well, especially up until the end where they replayed the first episode. The music just seems so out of place and the ED was like a slap in the face. Music ruined it for me, 8/10.

I agree.

I have a habit of just closing the window when I see the first few frames of the ED, before the song starts.

The combination of ひとひらの桜 and the Dango song was gorgeous, using the build-up in ひとひらの桜 to coincide with the delivery... :upset:

"Nagisa?... Nagisa?"

[Yukinokesshou]

Not going to comment, for fear of doing injustice to what I have just seen.
*三鞠躬*
10/10

[radioIzzy]

:'(
What can I say?
Truly one of the most emotional climaxes I've ever seen.

[magnum]

The episode was so very despairing. Desperate than the movie which hadn't shows the labor of Nagisa especially where Tomoya holds their baby and searching for here. T_T Today while I browsing the net, I found something that lifted up my soul. I need now for clarification. The girl from the alternate world save her by reversing the time of the real world.

[velvet]

I really don't remember Nagisa's theme having the middle parts of Dango Daikazoku...

But I'll give it a listen again, I suppose.


There's another version of Nagisa in the visual novel.
I think you are looking for Nagisa~Saka no Shita no Wakare. :)



The girl from the alternate world save her by reversing the time of the real world.

Not sure what that means. Though I'm pretty sure it wasn't like that in the original material, if that's what you need.

[MeoTwister5]

The episode was so very despairing. Desperate than the movie which hadn't shows the labor of Nagisa especially where Tomoya holds their baby and searching for here. T_T Today while I browsing the net, I found something that lifted up my soul. I need now for clarification. The girl from the alternate world save her by reversing the time of the real world.

If you really need to know, head on over to the spoilers thread. The answer to this question is critical to the ending and thus one of the biggest spoilers in the story.

[magnum]

Ok thanks moe. Okay, another one keeps ticking me. The light balls. If Tomoya finally collects all the light balls, he could wish to the girl from the other world. (Tell me if I'm wrong. I heared from Kotomi about the wish from the another world.) And the girl from the another world saves "her" life by reversing the time from real world and revive "her".

[Anime Daisuki]

Why do you post spoiler discussions or speculations here?

[SaintessHeart]

Am I the only person who didn't cry when I watched this episode?

But it was totally OMG....the colour fading at the end as Nagisa died is truly artistic.

Dishes unwashed, mails unread. Tomoya falls into depression.

[Ithekro]

I didn't cry during the episode...though I think I came close to crying. I did however cry later when my head started looping Nagisa's theme.

[Kushi]

God darn it... I stopped watching Clannad because I thought it was way too depressing... when I d/l 16 since I was curious to see how it was doing and I end up d/ling the saddest episode of the anime...

*lifts away the buckets of manly tears*

[passin'gass]

Gave this a 9/10 because of that jarring ED.

In retrospect, that upbeat ED saved me from having a depressing weekend.

...can i have my vote changed to a 10?

[darkchibi07]

Thankfully I was smart enough to skip the ED sequence completely and jump right into the preview. The impact was still kept.

[SidVicious]

Nagisa-chan.... :(

[Nerroth]

Kyou looked a bit like Tohsaka with the red and black - and Kotomi's kimono looked great, too!


And I liked the little nods here and there to 'Tomo-pyon'...



...but yeah, the rest, well it's already been said, I guess.

[Vegard Aune]

Just rewatched the entire thing with subtitles, only, seeing how I already knew that KyoAni didn't change the ending, I took the liberty of playing Dango Daikazoku at the end instead...
It was even more devastating than the first time. Again, this is the most heart-wrenching episode of any anime I've ever seen.

On another note, I thought of this back in the last episode, but I'll mention it now. It seems like saying "I want to go to the beach with you" is the equivalent of "I'm going to die" in Key's stories. So I suppose now would be a good time to send a message to future Key-protagonists... IF YOUR GIRLFRIEND EVER SAYS THAT SHE WANTS TO GO TO THE BEACH WITH YOU, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, SAY NO! OTHERWISE, SHE'S GOING TO DIE!!!
...Yeah, I needed to say something humorous here, otherwise the tragedy of this episode might have driven me to commit suicide.

[KaneDragon]

Instead of Dango Daikazoku, how about... "The Palm of a Tiny Hand"?

BnBzM67aLMQ

:(

It was a depressing episode, but I've been spoiled about this for quite some time (thank you 4chan), and Nagisa was raising death flags all over the place in the previous episode. The ED was a slap in the face, but enough has been said about that already.

[Klashikari]

No, because this song is solely destined for a unique scene.

[Hyperion]

W. T. F.

I'm so angry right now I can barely see straight. Why? Why? Why does every anime where they actually put effort into the story line decide, hey now we're going to crush your soul. Why would you do that? I don't understand, why can't there ever be a happy ending? Throughout all of Clannad I was pissed because I would have rather seen Tomoya with Tomoyo or Kyou but then in AS I actually really liked Nagisa and grew attached to the storyline.
wtf? WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF?

1/10 for ruining my day.

I agree. I was having a good day, feeling good and all that, I watched this and WHAM! I don't think I've ever cried that hard to an anime. My mom heard me bawling, asked me what was wrong so I showed her. We cried together.

I....I......damn it.

[Lukix]

Indeed, very despairing episode (especially near end). I was happy when I saw all 'mates' together. [Still - doesn't Sunohara x Kyou getting closer to each other? I love their 'conversations']

[Viridian]

Can't say I wasn't expecting this, what with all the foreshadowing. The death scene was handled pretty well, though I wasn't moved to tears.

Kotomi seemed to be referring to brane worlds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brane_world) and the many-world interpretation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation) of quantum mechanics. Probably best to take the incorporation of these concepts into the story with a pinch of salt though :heh:

I really hope, now that Nagisa is dead, that they don't bring her back with some parallel world crap... I think it'll be a more meaningful ending if Tomoya learns to live with Ushio, who has a bit of Nagisa inside her after all. That and him finally sympathising with his father is probably the way the story will go now.

[dustclee]

That. Was really well done. Everything from the voice acting to the BGM was great. Until the ED spoiled it.

This deserves more than a 10/10.

[velvet]

Can't say I wasn't expecting this, what with all the foreshadowing. The death scene was handled pretty well, though I wasn't moved to tears.

Kotomi seemed to be referring to brane worlds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brane_world) and the many-world interpretation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation) of quantum mechanics. Probably best to take the incorporation of these concepts into the story with a pinch of salt though :heh:

I really hope, now that Nagisa is dead, that they don't bring her back with some parallel world crap... I think it'll be a more meaningful ending if Tomoya learns to live with Ushio, who has a bit of Nagisa inside her after all. That and him finally sympathising with his father is probably the way the story will go now.

I'd agree with you anytime. On a different story.
Or at least wait until you get to know Ushio.
Because when I did, I was crying and wishing (really hard) for God to give them a chance.

[Nukerjsr]

I can like...feel the tears in my eye ducts but they are just aren't pour out like I expected.

I was spoiled by it, but still it's just amazing how hard this stuff that hits you. Especially to these characters that you've grown so attached to. It's a complete and total why? Why must the Unseen Force in the Key Universe be such an evil douchebag?

There were two parts of the episode that bothered me. I'm with everyone else on this, the ED was a moodkiller and should of just been axe'd. We don't need it at this point. The other would be just kind of with Kotomi's explaination of the other world. It's great to see all of these characters again but the whole explaination of the other world seemed force, especially when Tomoya explains how he doesn't feel different knowing he'll become a parent. It just feels unnecessary especially since we saw the other world twice.

I did really love this episode...I really felt for Tomoya during the scene of Ushio's birth because the man really does have to go through so much during it as well as his partner. And this really affects everyone in the universe with Nagisa's parents and all of their friends. It just chills you to the bone how excruciating it is to watch this happen, yet you are amazed by the beauty.

Oh man, now I'm starting to feel them...

[-KarumA-]

finally an episode that made me cry whoo!

[panzerfan]

If we dare to scratch the surface of the physics, which is kinda something that you're not supposed to do as dictated by the law of anime + science, this whole thing will move to metaphysical and even debate on interpretations over a philosophical model about quantum world.
Although it may be fitting given that quantum realm... say take seeing nuclearweak and strong force transplanted on a macro scale would be as insane as Gurren Lagann meeting Cuthu'lu at least.

[kk2extreme]

i wonder how many ep it would take for tomoya to overcome his depression.

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

Probably until the last episode.

[LeaD36]

i´m perfectly indifferent to the episode as it went just the way it was expected to go.

Kyou/Kotomi/Tomoyo 3way for Tomoya ahead? Or will Tomoya raise the kid alone? or[Kotomi´s gonna show Tomoya a gateway to the parallel world where he finds Nagisa´s light and brings her back?? The other world was a frequent in this ep, so ´m curious what´ll happen from here on out, this sume major cliffhanger right therebtw i think this was hinted from the very first episode onwards in season 1, sad but true:(

[Nochgo]

NAGISA!! TT.TT
Arg, this anime, this anime I tell you... Arg, my chest still feels tight, even though I knew what would happen. Where is that tissue...

It was an amazing episode, like I expected. The way Tomoya trying to hard to hold on to her... as Nagisa's life is fading away... Nagisa. T.T

And, until now, I still thought ED was acceptable, and how I really, really wished they put on Dango Daikazoku when the screen faded for the ending...

[Starra]

I cried.


Even though I knew it was coming and had already seen the movie.


And Nagisa's not even my favourite character.

[DragoZERO]

This episode never should have been made. This series should have never had continued.

http://img90.exs.cx/img90/2365/k1ocray.gif

http://www.countingcows.de/waeha!.gif

http://forums.spodesabode.com/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif

http://www.countingcows.de/oooch.gif

http://www.extremefunnypictures.com/comment/sad_smile.gif

NAGISA!!!


I would be just like him though, his thinking, his reaction, everything.

[C.A.]

The episode can only get a 10 or more, for all sorts of reasons, even the ED isn't enough to reduce the rating.

As much as I love Nagisa I found that I didn't have any wetness around my eyes at all. But I think I'm experiencing heartache, its like my heart has already cried too much that's why I have no tears left.

The only time I've ever cried over a character death was in One Piece. Because One Piece is a show I've watched for years like many others, the loss of that character was like a loss of a very old friend.

I'm glad I didn't know Nagisa for that long, unlike those who played the visual novels. You guys are already very attached to her, probably more than us who only watched the anime. I'm sure that's why you guys can cry now or even a second time.

[DragoZERO]

I only watched the anime. But then again.. my eyes welled up when Inoue said good bye right before leaving for Hueco Mundo.. so yeah. I seem to well up way to easily.. but this is the only anime where I had to blow my nose and almost down right cried.

[Clawn]

10/10 for amazing execution. I'm still feeling sad over it.

[king12354]

Why Tomoya? Why?!

[Scary Zet]

That was really sad. Till the last second I had been hoping to get a way out of the situation, but the preview of the next episode said its definitive word, oppressive summary. However, I give KyoAni all my appreciation for the great implementation of the episode and especially the last "scene". Eleven out of ten.

Though I'm REALLY emptied and DISAPPOINTED by what has been shown in Clannad ~AS~ -16-, I'm definitely looking forward to watching all the following episodes.

Clannad is kinda unique anime. Joining the two seasons we get the long story showing us great developing of the characters over a very long period of time. Considering general storyline, the amount and type of events shown, - I've seen nothing similar ever.

Clannad is a great anime. I've really enjoyed it and value it as a masterpiece. I love Kanon '06 more, though...

Sayonara, Nagisa. You were the cutiest anime-girl I've seen ever.

[germanturkey]

i waited 40 eps for this... i'm not the biggest Nagisa fan, but it was really well done. not as emotional as i thought it would be, it couldn't pull tears from me. but the last scene (including his thoughts) was really well executed. just the two of them isolated by themselves.

strangely, for me, the highlight of this ep was seeing the supporting cast (minus Tomoyo wtf?!) again. the "event" comes as a close second.

speculation on my part (as i never played the game) but why do i get the feeling that
that once he gathers all the lights, his wish will be not to save nagisa, but rather to have been late that one day of school so he never met her walking up the hill

now THAT would make it an impressive and highly emotional show, because we know what he went through (both highs and lows) once he met her.

[CCLemon]

germanturkey:

That would make for some drama, but unfortunately, it'd also ruin the entire point and theme of the anime, (family) because, face it, Tomoya wouldn't of met the Furukawas and fathered Ushio if he hadn't met Nagisa.

[Hyperion]

I re watched this episode, and I really want to beat Tomoya with a stick. Stop feeling sorry because you met her, and relish those memories forever. That's what a true man does!

Between this, and the AIR movie I don't think I'll be crying anytime soon.

Where's the rum?

[germanturkey]

there's an air movie? is it old?

@lemon, yeah, i understand that won't happen, but i can imagine..

[octoberasian]

All I can say...
I cried during the last half of the episode.

My heart ached, wishing and hoping the opposite would happen in the end..

.. but didn't.

Dammit. Very good anime and probably one of the very few to actually make me cry for a long time.

I actually didn't touch the RAW for a several days, then got the SS-Eclipse sub after. I was so hesitant to even spoil myself by reading the blogs. I just didn't want to come to the cold hard truth about what happened at the end of this episode.

Will miss Nagisa a lot.

[Myssa Rei]

germanturkey: CLANNAD is about Family. People easily forget that. In the time he spent with Nagisa, Tomoya found one, and in doing so some measure of happiness (he literally hated the city at the start of the series). Taking the route you suggested would destroy the central message of the show.

A little off-topic: Huh, what? o_O Message deleted? I gave a general statement on KEY's work in general. I didn't even spoil anything this time.

[Mecha_Trueno]

So Tomoya loses the one person most precious to him... and if the spoiler in the OP is true... he then takes Ushio, his daughter, Nagisa's legacy, and enrols her in a school where her home room teacher is a tsundere:heh:
... yeah... good job, nice move Tomoya!

Ok, here it comes... I'm SO gonna get flamed for throwing in sarcasm in the most depressing episode discussion ever...:uhoh: *me goes to hide*

[Freya]

Yeah....she died. Pretty sad.

Let's see what Tomoya does now. He's so emo. :[ Poor guy.

[Bolton]

You know, I actually felt heartache at that, although I only cried one tear, because I'm macho. lol

[zzeroparticle]

Well, crap!

That's about the extent that really needs to be said. The last half was pretty moving and it's evident that Tomoya's pretty much a wreck and though one can't blame him for it it'll be up to him to rise from the situation. My guess (I haven't played the VN or anything) is that he won't quite recover from this solely because of how much he depended on Nagisa for his support. Heck, those two complemented each other perfectly so now that one part is gone, it's like having one leg amputated. And Tomoya is pretty much a cripple in the emotional sense.

Dare I speculate at Ushio being neglected from this point on? The dialogue during the Christmas party did indicate strongly that the concept of Tomoya being a father hasn't sunk in completely with him and all this time, he's been more concerned with Nagisa without thinking beyond that. Now that it's bitten him in the face, it'll be a test of his strength of character and a test that I'm frankly not sure he can succeed at. His monologue hinted that his mind was really in a state of despair and that he had given up before he started, which doesn't bode well at all.

Only the subsequent episodes will reveal how things go for me.

[Sorrow-K]

this will make the saddest ep of the year
There's a lot of months left in this year, but I daresay you may be right.

A brilliant episode. I think there's a bit too much focus on Nagisa's death because it just overshadows how brilliant the entire episode was. From beginning to end, it was better than anything in this season so far and better than everything from the first season except maybe one other episode. And the final scene was the most powerful in the entire combined story to date. Everything was executed brilliantly (maybe not as well as the game, some would argue, but as well as an anime could), and the entire episode carried a lot of depth and meaning and symbolism. Kotomi's speech about multiple worlds hearkens back to ideas that have been explored in works like Ever 17 or Noein (both excellent stories in their own right), and there were a lot of really interesting themes at work, including the ongoing one about Tomoya's reaction to the changing town ("I'm coming to hate this town" was one of the more powerful lines in the episode).

As for the last scene, I didn't cry at first, even when it was clear that Nagisa was dying, but when Nagisa's theme started playing, I lost it. They used a really vibrant and shiny colour scheme for the scenes where Tomoya was remembering Nagisa, and there's a fairly obvious reason why they went with that, which doesn't really need to be spelled out. But a little thing like that makes all the difference; it shows that they've put the deserved amount of care into this.

What they didn't put any care into was the ED theme. I'm not going to pull punches, playing "Torch" at that moment was an outright failure on KyoAni's part. It wasn't just jarring, it was inappropriate, in my mind. Anything would have been better. "Dango Daikazoku" would have been more appropriate. Hell, they could have put something else at the beginning and saved "Toki wo Kizamu Uta" for the ED. They played "Ana" at the end of ep 24, it's not like they haven't changed ED themes to better suit the moment in the past.

[C.A.]

Its always weird that how far opinions can differ.There's a lot of months left in this year, but I daresay you may be right.

A brilliant episode. I think there's a bit too much focus on Nagisa's death because it just overshadows how brilliant the entire episode was.But the spoiler box in this, says that it focuses too much on Ushio's birth than Nagisa's death: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2189750&highlight=ushio#post2189750

I can't decide which one of you I should agree with.

I just know the entire episode was preparing us for Ushio's birth and whether Nagisa would die. Then we got probably the most amazing birthing scene in anime history followed by the extremely sad death of Nagisa.

I don't see focusing too much on birth or death.

[Tempester]

What they didn't put any care into was the ED theme. I'm not going to pull punches, playing "Torch" at that moment was an outright failure on KyoAni's part. It wasn't just jarring, it was inappropriate, in my mind. Anything would have been better. "Dango Daikazoku" would have been more appropriate. Hell, they could have put something else at the beginning and saved "Toki wo Kizamu Uta" for the ED. They played "Ana" at the end of ep 24, it's not like they haven't changed ED themes to better suit the moment in the past.

KyoAni isn't exactly the most creative when it comes to OP/ED placement (or necessary lack thereof) but that was unforgivable. Even Omni brought that up on Random Curiousity (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/). This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj1Q045My-w) should honestly be the "2nd" ending for After Story. But from what they have done with this episode I'm afraid they will just settle for being consistent. That is, even if keeping an upbeat sugar parade song for an ending of a pure drama show involving a depressed young adult and his neglected daughter counts as "consistent".

I'm so ticked off that I'm probably going to edit episode 16 with Windows Movie Maker and seed a torrent of the episode with the Dango Daikazoku ED edited in.

I wonder how popular it'll become. :heh:

[Proto]

On its defense, Torch is not an upbeat sugar parade song when taking the whole song and the lyrics into consideration, but certainly its intro doesn't help its cause :heh:

[shinryou]

Torch definately ruined the overall mood of the episodes end for me... I kinda saw it coming, but hoped for a better ending theme to suit the moment...

[MeoTwister5]

When I heard that Torch was played for episode 16 I skipped it on the video player and went stright for the preview, which is why the ED didn't affect my overall judgement.

Based on the episode titles, what some game vets call as the true BAW moment is still some episodes away, so don't be tossing that towel in the laundry just yet.

[Tempester]

Ok, no matter how mindblowingly beautiful Chiisana Tenohira is, it should not be played in any ED other than the True End.

I completely agree with you. That song basically wraps up everything.

Based on the episode titles, what some game vets call as the true BAW moment is still some episodes away, so don't be tossing that towel in the laundry just yet.

Please educate me on what episode number that is. You may use spoiler tags. I'm thinking it's either 19 or 20

[Rhyel]

Great episode, I am strange, After the episode I was thinking about the Tomoyo Family postcard.

Not showing this, make me have a little hope about a Tomoyo After Animation. :) (I not know the story)

Yes, I am a Tomoyo Fan. :) (and before the episode 24)

[germanturkey]

in regards to the comparison between AIR and this.. AIR was executed a lot better. i didn't think this was nearly as emotional as AIR. yeah, yada yada yada she died, but the scene immediately before that and during it was not ideal. the movie did it much better.

[Proto]

Hmm... I'm curious, what do yo refer with when you say that it was not ideal? Would you mind to elaborate?

[Jimmy C]

Note to SS-Eclipse: It "branes" not "planes". Please correct on the widescreen edition.

[Ithekro]

Considering that I was able to no fully cry until I listened to Dango Daikazoku after watching this episode...I'm not sure if that is a good choice...for people's sanity.

It is more or less the perfect ending theme for the episode...but the depression it will cause may be too large to messure.

[Kinny Riddle]

In chronological order:

- Finally Dango Mk III completes the Dango Family Set.

- It was great to see Sunohara again, and strangely enough, he just felt and acted more mature compared to the blond jerk he used to be. How times change.

- In addition to Sunohara, it was also great to see the twins and Kotomi. Though no Tomoyo and Yukine, but they still get a mention. Ryou and Kotomi were absent in the After Story segment of the game, and their inclusion here was put to good use by having them explain the existence of the alternate world and multiple possibilities, which will become important afterwards.

- It was also great to see Yoshino's Love & Spanner Indie album get a mention, though I'm surprised Key still hasn't milked this opportunity by releasing a CD single. (The process of coming up with the name "Love & Spanner" by Yoshino and Tomoya was one of the most hilarious aspects in After Story, pity it wasn't included. )

- There were many Illusionary World scenes as well, the rest is up to the viewer to put two and two together.

- Nagisa is a strong girl, but in the end, she had to go. Rest in Peace, your effort to give birth to Ushio will not be in vain, and the story WILL continue.

[panzerfan]

Prolly to add to kinny... Nagisa's effort is not in vain, although it's obvious that her absense leaves the Furukawa bearing a hefty load if not the brunt of what's to come.

To be blunt and morbid about all that, I can pretty much say that the actual work would be

-portmortem of Nagisa
-filing of death certificate
-funeral arrangements
-issueing of notice of funeral services
-burial or cremation
-social security and other insurance filing process
*child custody papers
*property issues

all in all, this typically amounts to quite a bill, just to add insult to injury.

Such things must be completed before the bereaved family can simply grieve and get on with what's ahead. Most if not all of which would be placed squarely on the Furukawa due to the financial constraint of Tomoya and his sheer lack of experience* (assuming if his mental state is fine). The details are mundane for such things and most likely no one would even remember having jumped through the bureaucratic loops to be honest.

*I am not even sure if Sanae and Akio are familiar with death proceedings as they are fairly young themselves. Naoyuki unfortunately wouldn't be of much assistance...

[sikvod00]

*Speculating*
I'm guessing that Sanae and Akio's characters won't change much after their daughters death, since they'll need to be the initial support for Tomoya. In that sense, he can afford to go into a temporary state of despair and neglect Ushio, since she has two tremendous grandparents...grandparents who look like college students. My gawd I still can't get over how young they look:eyespin:

[Ithekro]

Well they could be as young as their late 30s be this episode. (Nagisa'a 21 years old...thus they would have been 18 at the oldest to still be in their 30s now).

[Solafighter]

Awsome episode... The second half... unexplainable... Very well maded. Awsome... I knew, what happens but it happened to sudden... to sudden... :T_T:

[-Sho-]

WOW WOW WOW wtf ! Like i said before , i have a bad feelings !! And yes its very sad .......
Raaaa Nagisa why ..... yeah Ushio is born but sad for Nagisa and Tomoya ...
But i think Tomoya is an idiot to think "if" only ..... etc .....
He was happy with Nagisa and Nagisa and give birth Ushio how did he always say it ?

And omg , the little nagisa like and the robot annoys me !
Still wondering since the S1 why they introduce them ???
But with Kotomi's explainations with the other worlds , i think its like that , they live in another world ... well its hard to believe ....

[Kaisos Erranon]

*Speculating*
I'm guessing that Sanae and Akio's characters won't change much after their daughters death, since they'll need to be the initial support for Tomoya. In that sense, he can afford to go into a temporary state of despair and neglect Ushio, since she has two tremendous grandparents...grandparents who look like college students. My gawd I still can't get over how young they look:eyespin:

Well they could be as young as their late 30s be this episode. (Nagisa'a 21 years old...thus they would have been 18 at the oldest to still be in their 30s now).

Sanae is 38 at the start of Clannad... She's 40 at this point in time.

Akio might be a bit older.

[Arveene]

Prolly to add to kinny... Nagisa's effort is not in vain, although it's obvious that her absense leaves the Furukawa bearing a hefty load if not the brunt of what's to come.

To be blunt and morbid about all that, I can pretty much say that the actual work would be

-portmortem of Nagisa
-filing of death certificate
-funeral arrangements
-issueing of notice of funeral services
-burial or cremation
-social security and other insurance filing process
*child custody papers
*property issues

all in all, this typically amounts to quite a bill, just to add insult to injury.

Such things must be completed before the bereaved family can simply grieve and get on with what's ahead. Most if not all of which would be placed squarely on the Furukawa due to the financial constraint of Tomoya and his sheer lack of experience* (assuming if his mental state is fine). The details are mundane for such things and most likely no one would even remember having jumped through the bureaucratic loops to be honest.

*I am not even sure if Sanae and Akio are familiar with death proceedings as they are fairly young themselves. Naoyuki unfortunately wouldn't be of much assistance...

Interesting thing to note about that.. Tomoya's father would have the experience of going through this.

[War_Lord]

Looks as though Tomoya is going through similar experiences as his father. Hope he doesn't become passive towards Ushio like his father was towards him. Nagisa is retarded, they could've adopted if she wanted a kid so bad.

[X207]

Looks as though Tomoya is going through similar experiences as his father. Hope he doesn't become passive towards Ushio like his father was towards him. Nagisa is retarded, they could've adopted if she wanted a kid so bad.

he'll probably do that for a bit.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Nagisa is retarded, they could've adopted if she wanted a kid so bad.

What Nagisa wanted was to have a child with her Tomoya-kun. For it to be THEIR child.

[panzerfan]

War_Lord does raise some merit even if he'd be insulting the dead(?) and obviously many who died giving birth.

The sensation of the whole pregnancy process isn't really something that I think should be trivialized or merely rationalize. If you don't even have the rights to have a child, it would make you a bigot for saying that a real-life person is retarded for childbirth. Of course, this is a fictionalized situation, but at least keep in mind the fact that childbirth can be fatal today is real.

[SwiftStrike]

:( this episode was the saddest out of all the key ones(just my opinion) primarily due to the fact that nagisa had a huge character development/main character role.

the mood changed in the middle from a happy reunion(i bet they did that on purpose...the final gathering) to something else.
so touching, had to give this a 10/10

[Reckoner]

I believe I rated this episode a 9 when I saw it, just haven't posted yet.

Last episode I was criticizing Nagisa for being too selfish, and Tomoya for not having the balls to grab hold of his situation. Looks like I was correct, now Tomoya's life is in shambles.

Yes, Nagisa wanted to have her child, I understand that. However, that is just trying to excuse her naivety/stupidity, or what ever word you want to use.

Anyhow this episode did get me emotional, and I am very interested to see how this death will affect Tomoya. After Story is about to get a whole lot more interesting.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Last episode I was criticizing Nagisa for being too selfish, and Tomoya for not having the balls to grab hold of his situation. Looks like I was correct, now Tomoya's life is in shambles.

Okay. What.

She wants to have a baby and she's selfish?

Tomoya just wants to make his wife happy, and you think he's doing something WRONG?

God forbid you ever get married.


Yes, Nagisa wanted to have her child, I understand that. However, that is just trying to excuse her naivety/stupidity, or what ever word you want to use.

I can't say anything to this that won't get me banned.

[panzerfan]

Well, at least it is clear that the decision to have a child went into fruition with some sense talked into the people involved. I honestly am more than impressed with Akio and Sanae regarding how they recognized what their roles are at this point of their daughter's life. Akio has shown maturity by not letting his own instinctive feelings and emotions intervene with the logical course of actions, and Sanae supported the couple while ebbing them to mature into parental roles.

@Proto: unfortunately, the best-laid out planned in this take by KyoAni became moot due to the heavy snowfall and the early birth...

[Proto]

She wants to have a baby and she's selfish?

She could have chosen to be at a hospital where life support services were readily available. Heck she could just have had a Caesarean section. Not 100% foolproof, but increasing your chances of survival never hurts.

Then again we need the drama. Not that it is a bad thing. On the contrary, this conversation has killed 5 catgirls already.

[Master Chibi]

What Nagisa wanted was to have a child with her Tomoya-kun. For it to be THEIR child.

Yeah, but it was kind of a given that they'd make the girl suffer for it.

I mean she couldn't complete high school for a while, but she's supposed to be healthy enough to give birth?

I mean I'm not trying to downplay it, but it was a given that she was going to kick the bucket ages ago the way they went about it (aka fucking horrible pacing, too little too late on making me care enough for them to have a baby together, and putting in more shit to coerce drama out of the situation then is really necessary.).

Her entire 'illness' is this god awful crutch the show has constantly fallen back on to squeeze more out of you anyway. They never tell you what it is she has, where she got it, why she got it, if there's ever been a cure for it, nothing. It's just this nameless evil they can utilize to their heart's content when they need to.

:\

[Sorrow-K]

She could have chosen to be at a hospital where life support services were readily available. Heck she could just have had a Caesarean section. Not 100% foolproof, but increasing your chances of survival never hurts.

Then again we need the drama. Not that it is a bad thing. On the contrary, this conversation has killed 5 catgirls already.
Did you watch the episode? She conceded. She was going to go to the hospital, but they were snowed in.

It really wasn't anyone's fault, it was simply bad luck. I certainly don't think it's fair to label this as forced drama when nothing that happened was the result of a bad or unjustified decision made by any one character. Given the cruel twist of fate, and the fact that if just one thing was different with the delivery, she may have survived, it could almost be seen as fate that she died that day.

[Reckoner]

Okay. What.

She wants to have a baby and she's selfish?

Tomoya just wants to make his wife happy, and you think he's doing something WRONG?

God forbid you ever get married.

Yes, she is being selfish for not thinking of those who are worried about her. Unfortunately if you die, you will have an effect on those around you. That's why people should not treat their lives lightly.

As for Tomoya, I'm not doubting his intentions, but rather his logic. He felt, he even knew this pregnancy was not a good thing for Nagisa, hence the talk with Sanae he had where he was wondering if she disliked him. But because he refuses to impose his will, I'm sure he rather have Nagisa alive than to continue with the pregnancy, he ends up screwed in the end.

Sometimes when you love someone, you need to make a choice that will not necessarily make them happy, but it will be for their own good. It is like the parent who grounds their child for not doing well in school. Sure the kid is not happy, but in the long run, he will have learned a lesson that will be far better for his future.

I can't say anything to this that won't get me banned.

This is just a show, a cartoon. I can see this is your golden egg, but chill out, don't get so personal.

[Master Chibi]

Nah, it's totally forced drama that it magically snowed on the day she was going to give birth, and that the aide somehow made it to her house exactly when it mattered in that snow but several 'doctors' couldn't.