Claymore Chapter 88 [Archive]

Skyfall

2009-02-03, 03:31

Welcome to the monthly discussion thread for Claymore, Chapter 88.

The thread was created before the chapter was published. Usually false spoilers start to appear early so (naturally) people always need a place to discuss them.

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Cyclone

2009-02-03, 03:33

Not a bad chapter.
To think the ZACS would be powerful enough to get Isley's arm...

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 03:38

Reposting my two favorite moments from the episode. :D

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/1927/zacslickom8.jpg

ZACS finding Isley tasty :D

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5103/dietrichdw8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:p Dietrich saving the day.

Awakened

2009-02-03, 03:42

I wonder why Isley is not running?

Maybe they will follow him to the end of the earth, but it does not look good for him.

It looks like ZCS gets stronger after eating some flesh.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 03:44

Most likely, Isley has fed enough on the people of that town that he has enough energy and has regenerated enough to fight. Boy him and those ZACS sure did decimate the place very quickly.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 03:56

Not a bad chapter.
To think the ZACS would be powerful enough to get Isley's arm...

The fighting was pretty awesome in this chapter. :mad: It kind of makes it suck that the Anime is over, because this would be nice to watch animated.

chibamonster

2009-02-03, 03:57

It seems the Zombie Claymore Strippers actually have an official name now... Abyssal Eaters? Eaters of the Abyss? Hmmm. I wonder how others will translate that to make it sound cool. The demons that eat the dwellers of the deep...

Deitrich sure knows a lot.

And good call on whoever picked out the source for these things after seeing the spoilers :D.

And Cyclone, I never thought it would happen, but this month I don't have to complain about waiting for the raws with the chinese scans in my face! Oh glorious day!

yezhanquan

2009-02-03, 03:59

Can't beat them? Create fellows which can eat them. Smart idea.

Now, all we need to do is to let a few "hounds" loose on Riful...

Newhope

2009-02-03, 04:13

Deitrich was the most intriguing part of this chapter why and how does she know so much and is it her reason her rebelling, to me the more we see her the more Miria like she becomes.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 04:17

That's the weird thing: if she knows so much, why did she say she is loyal to the org? There is no moral high ground for the org destroying the south with those monsters. I'm not even sure if Priscilla can stop those things in her weakened state. Before, she might have if she released her energy like she did on Isley, but now...

yezhanquan

2009-02-03, 04:23

These "hounds" should have been specifically designed to be "giant-slayers", so to speak. The bigger you are, the greater danger you're in.

Awakened

2009-02-03, 04:23

Are the ZACS protecting their heads? or has Isley never tried hitting their heads?

What if Dietrich knew to much, thats why she was on that Ab hunt.

yezhanquan

2009-02-03, 04:26

Funny if Isley never tried. He should know better than anyone else that "heads off" is probably the only way to kill someone for real in Claymore.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 04:31

Obviously these things regenerate fast, but I was thinking about how claymores have an advantage over yoma because they're faster. Could these ZACS be faster than even Isley, and that's why he doesn't immediately run? Anyway, the zacs look different when excited, less like slow moving zombies, their bodies become more sleek and curvy.

Sci-Fi

2009-02-03, 04:37

With Isley's arm gone, it's gonna be hard to escape without stopping/delaying the zombies first. Who knows if the standing still trick will work with an AB/AO. Remains to be seen if our Claymore trio is far enough away not to be tracked by the zombies. At the moment the zombies seem unstoppable.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 04:37

:P BTW, I think the reason why the org held off on this plan until after the first generation of Claymores is that Male Zombie Claymore Strippers is just a thought that is too horrible to bare.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 04:39

MalakTawus

2009-02-03, 05:12

Isley isn't stupid,i bet he isn't in real danger but probably he doesn't know how to completely kill them(and yeah,i'm betting on the head as the vital point....but you have to destroy it, not cut away from the body imo)

Anima

2009-02-03, 05:15

While I don't know what was Isley saying/thinking because of the lack of translation, I don't see this as a dire situation for him. The guy easily fended them off and ripped them to shreds; just not in the critical spot. It would be difficult with one arm lost but this an AO we are talking about for goodness sake!

Isley considered redundant at this point? Dunno about that but I see this chapter as a demonstration of the AE's powers and could also be a reminder of Isley's powers.

Now I really want to read the chapter translated.

Riful

2009-02-03, 05:22

So now we know why Isley and Raki/Prissy seperated, I suppose, it would have been too dangerous for them or maybe they got seperated during a fight. This really sucks for Isley ... they will keep hunting him until the end of time ... or until he gets their heads, but that doesn't seem very easy.

Stahlwolf

2009-02-03, 05:25

You know~

I looked at the Abysmals as the shizzle of all the Claymore world.
Until now...
HOLYFRAKEN$#!7WTF!!????!!!
So, not only do they look like female Claymores, sense yoki, and are what seems to be partially (if not fully) awakened,... they regenerate FASTER than anyone or anything else and EAT THE SPOILS OF THEIR BATTLES!!!
But, let's think about their regeneration. From what it looks like, you can put them all into a blender and they'd still return to their original forms. Of course, decapitation goes without saying.
How does one kill a youma? Decapitate.
How do you kill an Awakened? Decapitate.
Another way for a claymore to die? Decapitate.
Isley. How are you gonna kill all these zombies? Uh... I'll just slice them up like I do everything else.
I didn't think there would be a chance of having something that would best an Abysmal other than a Claymore god. THIS IS WORSE! These zombies did what Luciela couldn't do.... and in a fraction of the time! Luciela left a scratch on his cheek. These things left his limb landing a few yards away.
A pallet of Kudos to Yagi-sensei for creating these Deep-Dweller Devourers. His creativity has just shocked me.
Oh, yes. Dietrich.
Since Helen and Deneve saved her flat ass so she might as well return the favor and save theirs.
I still think she's a stuck-up little priss.
So, in short: We're sticking around to fight Isley. Wait! Who are they? Ouch! Dietrich! They what?! Run away? Good idea! Isley, have yourself a pheasant plucking day. ZOOM!
I will never be bored of this series.
Ever.

-Now we just have to wait for April.

When I started this there were only 8 posts then. How did you guys sneak up on me? I guess that'll teach me to enjoy my tea while editing.
Oh... and an afterthought: When the zombies say nothing but "gi gi gi" sound effect.... I have this fear that I'll turn a page and find one of them going "giggity giggity giggity." Especially the one wrapped around Isley's arm.

Double_friedman

2009-02-03, 06:03

OMG, I've checked this episode!! It's amazing! I don't think creating a claymore with ABeings corpses was very original and surprising, but I liked the way the Zombies, who are able to face an AO.

PureYoki

2009-02-03, 06:23

Can it be that only male AB flesh is usable to make a ZCS?

Sleepy Speculator

2009-02-03, 06:49

i don't see why...

Anyhow, is Helen gonna look like she's permenantly winking at people now?

It also appears the mouths are sewn shut to hide the awful teeth, but why the eyes.... hmmm.

Riful

2009-02-03, 06:52

Text-only translation for this chapter. I'm sure somebody else can come up with a better name　though xD

the Devils have arrived in town, they're smelling something and jump up ... landing just in front of Helen, Deneve and Isley.

Scene 88 : The blind Hunters

Isley: !
Deneve: !!
Helen: Wha...?!

Helen: What ... are those?

Isley: Shit.
Isley: Have I gotten a bit too wild?

Helen: Damn
Helen: I don't know what's going on ... but doesn't seem like those are our friends.

Deneve: Stop it!! Helen!

- Helen's arm gets cut off -

Helen: eh?

- Helen gets hurt ... badly ... Deneves saves her -

Helen: Gah ...aaaaah!!!

Deneve: You ...

- Deneve throws Helen out off reach -

Deneve: Pick up your arm!
Deneve: And regenerate it together with your eye, right away!

Deneve: Sh...
Deneve: This little...

-Dietrich jumps in-

Deneve: ! You...!

Dietrich: Don't move!
Dietrich: Breath slowly.

- the devil "smells" deneve and leaves -

Dietrich: Now move slowly ... those guys react to abrupt movements.

Deneve: What the hell are those? I can't feel any Yoki, but ...

- scene changes to Isley -

Helen: Wha...?
Deneve: This is ... Isley's awakened form?!

Dietrich (?): He has already ... killed 3 of them?

-Isley fights-

Deneve: Impossible ... are they immortal?!

Isley: Scatter! (?)

Dietrich: Let's get out of here! This town is already lost.

Deneve: Do you think they can be defeated like that?

Dietrich: No ... I suppose, it won't work.

Dietrich: Their weak point is the same as other Yoma and Awakened Beings, the head.
Dietrich: In other words, as long as they manage to protect just that part, they are able to regenerate with astonishing speed.
Dietrich: So, no matter which situation, they are probably always acting and moving accordingly, in order to protect their head at all costs.

Deneve: So those are really ...
Deneve: ... Awakened Beings?!

Dietrich: .........

Dietrich: Those are Weapons, created by the organization ...

Dietrich: ... to destroy the Creatures of the Abyss.

Deneve: !!
Helen: Wha?

Dietrich: We're inside of a slipstream (?).
Dietrich: Here they won't be able to find us.

Deneve: How's your wound, Helen?

Helen: My arm is reattached, but I'm having difficulties with my eye ...
Helen: ... it might be too late.

Deneve: We've been through all this. You can't say anymore that we have nothing to do with this. I'd like you to tell us what those creatures are.

Dietrich: ....
Dietrich: Seven years ago, after completing one of their researches/projects, the organization started a new experiment...
Dietrich: using the corpses of 11 awakened beings ...

Dietrich: They created new warriors, not with the flesh of normal Yomas , but with the flash and blood of those Awakened Beings.

Deneve: What?
Deneve: That's ... ridiculous!

Dietrich: Yes. They can no longer be called "warriors".
Dietrich: The organization started to create monstrosities, human-shaped monsters, who are no longer human.

Dietrich: They don't even have a spark of a human heart or feelings.
Dietrich: What they have is nothing, but a fierce carving for flesh.

Dietrich: This is where the organisation used a research result from 7 years ago.
Dietrich: They completely eradicated their (those beings') own consciousness, and carved only that one desire for food into their minds.

Dietrich: Destroyed eyes and sealed off mouths ... they are an absolute life form that exists only to desperately chase after that one food they were given.

Dietrich: Because they have been created not to send out Yoki, they are also unable to feel it themselves.
Dietrich: They are only destroying the Southern Lands, while chasing after that smell implanted into their minds.

Dietrich: This "food" they are chasing ...

Deneve: No way ...

Dietrich: You are right.
Dietrich: The organization obtained it in the South ...

Dietrich: a part of Isley's flesh.

Isley: Damn
Isley: You freaking beasts.

Dietrich: The 11 Devils the organisation created ....

Dietrich: Abyssal-Devourer (Shinen-Gui) ... Devourers of the Abyss? ;)

Dietrich: Thus is their name.

racjona

2009-02-03, 07:02

Thank you so much, Riful :)

Gooral

2009-02-03, 07:55

Yeah, many thanks Riful.

Interesting. All zombies are female (at least they look like it) but if I assume right they were made from 11 male AB killed by Alicia...
MiB are perverts, that's for sure.

Sleepy Speculator

2009-02-03, 08:00

@Riful thankyou

Which experiment, Alcia/Beth or Clare, that's got me wondering now.

Riful

2009-02-03, 08:37

I suppose they just like always took some female orphans and simply "fused" them with different flesh this time. Miria or some of the others were probably also created from some male Yoma's flesh.

They won't go back to creating male warriors all that soon, as those were clearly a "failed project". :D

Sci-Fi

2009-02-03, 08:37

Find it ironic that the AB army Isley sacrificed is coming back to haunt him. Still don't know his reasoning for doing that. Maybe Yagi will have an Isley flashback to explain it. Isley must know the Org is capable of creating even more powerful beings. Priscilla is gone with Raki now, so Isley has to fend for himself.

irvinethearcher

2009-02-03, 08:56

Poor isley, having to die in such a way. He should have gone for the head from the start.

MisterJB

2009-02-03, 09:54

Thanks Riful

Isley is being hunted by devils whose mouths only know his taste and whose minds are filled with only the desire of eating him. One advice:
GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE!!!!!!

I hopes he survives but I also hope that the Devourers of the Abyss have more appearances on the story. This arc is turning into my favourite arc

Gangsta: I read you explaination and I agree with it. My only question is if Isley wanted the South all along, why didn't he extablished himself there when he Awakened? That made me conclude that it was only because of Priscilla

I can see Priscilla and Raki appearing to save Isley. She sould fell his Abyssal Yoki.
Also, how did the Org got their hands on Isley's flesh? Was it after his fight with Luciela ?

Poor Helen is going to look like Raphaela. :(:(

I always wondered what would happen if they used Ab flesh instead of Yoma. Glad to see that Yagi thinks of everything

Negativedark

2009-02-03, 09:58

Although from the sounds of it, they protect the head at all costs. Still has anyone counted the ZCS? I don't see eleven of them in any of the pictures. I also hope that the org has a failsafe this time. Ironic, Isley went from bieng the one in the best posistion in seven years ago, to being in the worst.

Fenrir_valindri

2009-02-03, 10:20

Isley looks like he is in big trouble, but it seems like he has encountered them before, I'm willing to bet he can escape them if he did his best to escape.

I'd be pretty impressed if Yagi killed Isley at this point, as I certainly didn't expect Isley to get taken out like this.

------

On another note I think Dietrich should be made an honorary member of the Ghosts. :heh: She certainly works hard enough to keep Helen and Deneve out of trouble. :uhoh:

I'd think with all the info she knows she would get along well with Miria. :heh:

------

On a side note, the Organization's Abyssal Eaters could quickly backfire once Isley is dead, after all they need to eat something.

zato_1one

2009-02-03, 10:32

Somehow I think the org made their experiment on adult woman. Or else they had to raise many zombie child. :uhoh:

Sleepy Speculator

2009-02-03, 10:40

Well Dietrich does seem a little well informed doesn't she? She even mentions an experiment which ended seven years ago leading to the beginning of this experiment. Thing is whilst we know of Alicia/Beth being completed, so technically was Clare, who according to the org died in the north. Clare was an experiment where something other than yoma flesh was used, and now we see the Abyssal hunters running around, makes me wonder if we're gonna see the dots joined up sometime soon.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 11:20

So now we know why Isley and Raki/Prissy seperated, I suppose, it would have been too dangerous for them or maybe they got seperated during a fight.

I think that they separated before the ZACS showed up; otherwise, Prissy and Raki are real jerks. I think perhaps Isley + Priscilla could've destroyed the zacs, and even a fully fed Priscilla could've destroyed them. I wonder what the ZACS would do after they eat Isley.

Interesting. All zombies are female (at least they look like it) but if I assume right they were made from 11 male AB killed by Alicia...
MiB are perverts, that's for sure.

They maybe Perverts in Black, but at least they didn't give us Male Claymore Zombie Strippers. Isley would've committed seppuku if they had.

Poor isley, having to die in such a way. He should have gone for the head from the start.

He probably does, but the ZACS entire defense is based on protecting their heads, and I bet like Claymores are faster than Yoma, ZACS are faster than Awakened Beings, so Isley is too slow to take off their heads.

Thanks Riful

Gangsta: I read you explaination and I agree with it. My only question is if Isley wanted the South all along, why didn't he extablished himself there when he Awakened? That made me conclude that it was only because of Priscilla

He went after the weakest Abyssal, or the one he matched up better against. I find it interesting that Priscilla didn't fight, she just showed up to rescue him from Riful. But Priscilla and Raki must have left him in the south, and he may not have felt up to going against Riful or Alicia and then the ZACS came. It seems like Riful doesn't know about the ZACS, nor do Priscilla and Raki. Maybe Clare route she traveled with Raki only covered the edge of the South? Didn't someone say Raki is from the south?

Poor Helen is going to look like Raphaela. :(:(

Riful: Come to mama, Raciella
Raciella: Mama? *glomps onto Helen's leg.*
Helen: WTF?!!!

I hope Yagi will try an eye patch this time for a different look. How would helen look with an eye patch anyway?

On another note I think Dietrich should be made an honorary member of the Ghosts. :heh: She certainly works hard enough to keep Helen and Deneve out of trouble. :uhoh:

I'd think with all the info she knows she would get along well with Miria. :heh:

She's must be Miria's long lost baby sister. :)

On a side note, the Organization's Abyssal Eaters could quickly backfire once Isley is dead, after all they need to eat something.

Yuppers.

Guido

2009-02-03, 11:26

Also, how did the Org got their hands on Isley's flesh? Was it after his fight with Luciela ?

That is correct! In chapter 64, one panel shows Isley in Awakened form somewhat badly bruised, and chunks of his and Luciela's flesh are scattered throughout the vicinity of the ruined landscape after their smackdown.

Now that you mention Luciela, it's very likely and more than obvious that the Org as well secured a chunk of Luciela's flesh leftovers afer the battle.

Although the Org presumes that Luciela is supposedly "dead" after the fight with Isley from seven-years back, they might had retrieved some of her flesh as safekeeping for their experiments.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 11:43

The English Scanlations are out.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 11:53

BTW, Helen lost her arm because she did go after the head of a ZACS. It formed a bladed weapon weapon from part of its head to its neck as defense, which in turn sliced Helen's arm off. So if you do go after their heads it has to be long range attacks, and then they have time to evade.

hell88

2009-02-03, 12:26

I had a feeling that everything that happened in this chapter was going to happen like it did.

Vinak

2009-02-03, 12:31

I knew the zombies just wanted to be close to Isley...just not that close

MisterJB

2009-02-03, 12:57

I knew the zombies just wanted to be close to Isley...just not that close

The problem is that they want to eat him alive...literally...

Gangsta: I think Raki is from the West.
Not necessarily, if the strike is done with enough power like, let's say, a strike from a massive Isley claw, then I think the blade would be destroyed along with the head. The problem is that they are eleven.
I would suposse that this is like eleven Galateas fighting against Rigardo and 11 Galateas is too much even for an AB Rigardo. Still, if it wans't for the regeneration, they wouldn't be a problem for Isley.

Guido: That makes me think that Isley is really going to die and Riful will be the ZCS's next target

hell88

2009-02-03, 13:00

Guido: That makes me think that Isley is really going to die and Riful will be the ZCS's next target

Unless the org has others after Riful.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 13:06

These ZACS seem to be better designed to take out Isley than Riful, even if Isley was slightly more powerful. Riful has all those ribbons, which seem to be better against multiple enemies in a close range fight, while Isley seems to be better at long ranged fighting. Luciela would've bitten back. :D I think who takes out who has largely to do with match ups. Probably Claymores would be very effective against the thoughtless creatures. They can stand still when those things get too close, setup traps for them to walk into and so forth. So probably the ZACS aren't that great of a threat to the org; that is unless they start to think too.

zato_1one

2009-02-03, 13:21

If I were the org, I will implant the bomb or some self destruct device within their head. After their work is done then BOOM.

Problem solved. :cool:

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 13:43

Nah, unlike Raciella, these don't seem to be flawed when it comes to being controllable, since they lack intelligence. All the org would have to do is lure them into a booby trapped area, with complex traps designed to decapitate them with many blades, and problem solved. Lack of Intelligence is their main weakness. This was demonstrated with Miria versus Agatha.

LONEWOLF13

2009-02-03, 13:45

I had a feeling that everything that happened in this chapter was going to happen like it did.

I thought the same as you Hell88

goes well at first but it ends with disaster lucky that nobody was killed only injuries.

MisterJB

2009-02-03, 14:06

Unless the org has others after Riful.

That's possibly but I doubt it.
Split your forces to send them against two Abyssals at the same time and you will lose them all. Isley proved that and he was willing to send them all to their deaths.
I don't think that the Org can allow the lost of many ZCS, it should't be easy to train them and I doubt that they have more Isley's flesh to feed them.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 14:23

Well until recently, the org probably couldn't go after Riful. Remember it requires a piece of the Awakened Being you want your ZACS to hunt. If I recall right, when the New Generation fought Riful the last time, they may have cut a bit of her ribbon off. So maybe now there is genetic material to use. Anyway, this chapter answers the question why the org doesn't use these powerful creatures to hunt DoD. That is very inefficient to do so. First you would have to fight a DoD, then you would have to get a piece of skin, flesh or something from it. Then you would have to take it to the lab and make the ZACS. It is much simpler to sacrifice a human being and create a male claymore that is going to awaken in battle with the DoD.

germanturkey

2009-02-03, 14:50

yeah, if it took them less than seven years to make them, i doubt they'll be willing to throw them away like that. remember that Claymore lifespans are generally really short. they probably got a scrap of isley from his battle in the south, and we can assume that the beasts had gotten there "recently." since they have to train them to go after a target.

either way, wow, what an interesting chapter. shows how evil the org is, but also how they keep trying to improve. poor helen.. and to an extent, poor isley..

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 14:58

The org is a nation that would nuke itself, it's own civilians, to stop a threat

hell88

2009-02-03, 15:03

That's possibly but I doubt it.
Split your forces to send them against two Abyssals at the same time and you will lose them all. Isley proved that and he was willing to send them all to their deaths.
I don't think that the Org can allow the lost of many ZCS, it should't be easy to train them and I doubt that they have more Isley's flesh to feed them.

Thats not what I mean't, I mean't that maybe the org has others that are specifically made to kill Riful.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-03, 15:05

Maybe something other than a ZACS is possible. There is also a possibility that the ZACS evolve based on the peice of meat of the hunted you use on them. So if they use a piece of riful ribbons then maybe those Zacs will have a defense specifically designed for Riful.

MisterJB

2009-02-03, 15:43

Thats not what I mean't, I mean't that maybe the org has others that are specifically made to kill Riful. i got you dont worry what i meant is that if they have more ZCS it would be much smarter to have them all focus on isley because that would assure his death. Sending half to attack riful would be too risky for the org, those girls and Alicia are their last hopes

khryoleoz

2009-02-03, 15:46

Guido

2009-02-03, 15:47

What about Priscilla?

She won't be able to hold the hunger for very long.

Vinak

2009-02-03, 15:55

What about Priscilla?

She won't be able to hold the hunger for very long.

thats what Raki is for.

Torri_fay_torren@hot

2009-02-03, 16:11

I can't see other Claymores approving of these AOH's They might make Claymores more mistrustful of them. Good for Miria's cause.

blurredvision

2009-02-03, 16:16

-Sho-

2009-02-03, 16:23

Finally just watch this chapter :

It was great ! Finally we saw Isley's true form but the demons seems to be hard ouch not a fun party for him . He already got his left arms destroyed and now we know the demons are "Abyss Feeders"
Wow Helen , It hurts , her eyes .
Yeah , destroy the head , always the head !! Don't make a mistake or Isley will die ... no he will going to be devour ...
So the others Abyss Feeders is looking for the other Abyssal .

PureYoki

2009-02-03, 16:26

Does Isley know that he has to aim at the head? Because I'm pretty sure he could shred the head of the AE (Abyssal Eater) he captured. (page 12-13)

PureYoki

2009-02-03, 16:41

Anyway, this chapter answers the question why the org doesn't use these powerful creatures to hunt DoD. That is very inefficient to do so. First you would have to fight a DoD, then you would have to get a piece of skin, flesh or something from it. Then you would have to take it to the lab and make the ZACS. It is much simpler to sacrifice a human being and create a male claymore that is going to awaken in battle with the DoD.

Dietrich says "The org forced them to crave only a single, particular meat." It seems the org has the option to make them follow a specific type of smell, i.e. yoma smell, AB smell or DOD smell. So actually, according to Dietrich's explanation, the org has found the perfect counter against DODs. Send a legion of abyssal eaters against DODs and they are done. :)

Vinak

2009-02-03, 16:42

it is explained in the chapter that the zombies do everything they can to protect their head at the cost of the rest of their bodies.

Sleepy Speculator

2009-02-03, 16:45

Even Dietrich was able to pin one temporarily, they can probably be destroyed with difficulty. The real problem fighting them is gonna be that super fast regeneration and shape shifting. Of course if the blade attacking is stronger than the blade they morph for defence then heads will roll. Also Helen lost her advantage of range because she attacked up close... <sigh> poor Helen now she's lost her depth perception as well.

PureYoki

2009-02-03, 16:48

it is explained in the chapter that the zombies do everything they can to protect their head at the cost of the rest of their bodies.

But it doesn't explain how an Abyssal Eater can defend her head against Isley when she is pinned. ;)

dantyx

2009-02-03, 16:49

^_^ great chapter .....

i dont think Isley will die At least not so Easily I mean he is Isley the only male Abyssal ...he will Find a way to kill These Abyss Feeders ...

i love Deneve in this chapter she act so fast and Intelligently she save Helen from Death uncertain...

The problem is that Abyss Feeders dont have a yoki that eill be a problem for clare

Cynthia will Help helen to regenerat her eye .....

Vinak

2009-02-03, 16:53

But it doesn't explain how an Abyssal Eater can defend her head against Isley when she is pinned. ;)

she...it protrudes spikes and blades out of it's neck.

IMO, the Abyss eaters should be renamed Bottom Feeders...just for the hell of it.

Lizard

2009-02-03, 16:55

Wow, those zombies sure have some nice teeth :uhoh:

Awesome chapter, Nice fight and yet another info dump. I noticed that for last several chapter you get two new questions for every answer, I wonder how long the mangaka can keep it up. Dietrich is like Mirias younger clone- levelheaded, same tactical awareness, same amount of suspicious knowledge....

Also if Helen wont be able to regenerate her eye, she should totally wear an eypatch. Her badass level would double

Vinak

2009-02-03, 17:01

PureYoki

2009-02-03, 17:04

she...it protrudes spikes and blades out of it's neck.

Isley can rip it apart. If Isley is unable to destroy the head of an AE which he captured, they are practically immortal. How are we supposed to destroy their head if they have an impenetrable defense? :)

Vinak

2009-02-03, 17:06

perhaps Isley is a masochist and enjoys watching himself get devoured by hordes of zombie strippers.

or maybe they are able to dodge his attacks to some extent.

PureYoki

2009-02-03, 17:09

or maybe they are able to dodge his attacks to some extent.

This is why I specifically expressed that she... it was pinned.

Yes, it seems Isley is a masochist who enjoys watching himself get devoured. :D

chibamonster

2009-02-03, 17:14

Ok. Claymore has begun to lose my interest with the last chapter and this one continues the trend.

It seems to me that ontologically, a Claymore and an AB should still be the same, their differences primarily being that of inclinations and dispositions to being a human or monster. Clare turned out fine for having the flesh of a warrior, and a strong one at that who might as well have been an AB herself. These zombies have the flesh of ABs, but ABs are, at least logically, at the extreme end of their warrior state of being. Dietrich's explanation wasn't very compelling.

Frankly I'd be happier w/out the introduction of these zombies. There is plenty of story to tell with the twins, Raciella, Maita's unique position, Raki and Priss, Clare & Rubel, all of these are left underdeveloped that introducing yet new elements into the mix is throwing off the momentum.

I got the opposite effect from this. AB's are different from Claymores. Once the limit is crossed they become something else and lose some of what made them human. The partially awakened Claymores are fundamentally different from normal claymores. Awakened beings and Claymores even smell different (as Ophelia said). A claymore can absolutely become an awakened being but a Claymore is not an awakened being without awakening.

Claymore for me is an examination of awakening in the context of the battle between humans and monsters. The experiment of the organization was to create AB's. This development in the story is not a step into things beyond what the story has presented thematically, it is a development that stretches the world we saw. This will absolutely apply to soul links, Raciella, and even Clare in the future.

Yagi will make it worth your interest in the future again :D.

And I have been wondering for months what would happen if an AB's flesh was put into a person instead of a youma or a claymore. I guess now we know. Though it seems these girls were specially created to be what they are. I wonder what happens when they are created without restrictions like "Eat only Isley"...

Vinak

2009-02-03, 17:19

This is why I specifically expressed that she... it was pinned.

Yes, it seems Isley is a masochist who enjoys watching himself get devoured. :D

well. this might explain it a little.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c38/vinak/16.jpg

Isley could be studying them as well.

PureYoki

2009-02-03, 17:28

well. this might explain it a little.

Isley could be studying them as well.

It seems they have been chasing Isley for almost seven years, Isley probably knows almost everything about them.

When Isley pinned the AE, he could shred its head into pieces, Isley has this power, he ripped apart many of them but he just watched the one he captured as if he was trying to understand what it was doing. He certainly had the time to kill it but he didn't. :confused:

MisterJB

2009-02-03, 17:28

well. this might explain it a little.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c38/vinak/16.jpg

Isley could be studying them as well.

That's some weird fetish...

They look like Helen, all stretchable

Vinak

2009-02-03, 17:40

It seems they have been chasing Isley for almost seven years, Isley probably knows almost everything about them.

When Isley pinned the AE, he could shred its head into pieces, Isley has this power, he ripped apart many of them but he just watched the one he captured as if he was trying to understand what it was doing. He certainly had the time to kill it but he didn't. :confused:

well he kinda does. but can't seem to hit the sweet spot :p
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c38/vinak/17.jpg

Fenrir_valindri

2009-02-03, 17:42

well. this might explain it a little.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c38/vinak/16.jpg

Isley could be studying them as well.

OK, someone has to say it so I might as well.

(Ahem) She seems to enjoy being penetrated by Isley's giant lance. :heh: :uhoh:

OK, I'm done now. :eyespin:

-----

I agree with Chiba on this one, I have never seen Awakened simply being a "natural" progression for Claymores. There entire physiology changes and their personality becomes warped. Unlike Claymores who remain mostly human with enough Yoma inside to enchance their bodies, Awakened Beings are almost completely separated from humans.

So putting an Awakened Beings flesh inside a human would have different results then simply Awakening or using normal Yoma flesh, and the results are the Abyssal Eaters.

----

I am hoping Isley recovers quickly and begins to take them out, or at least escapes while destroying a few. He still seems to retain the power advantage over them, he just simply got caught by surprise when they took his arm. (He is outnumbered after all)

Riful could also be in danger from the Abyssal Eaters because some of her flesh was broken off in her encounter with #3&5 as well as the Ghosts.

On another note; this most recent experiment of the Organization makes me wonder if Alicia and Beth are now much stronger then we were previously led to believe.

PureYoki

2009-02-03, 17:46

well he kinda does. but can't seem to hit the sweet spot :p

If I were Isley, I would let her do what she was doing. If I'm already dead, let it be in a pleasurable way. :D

Vinak

2009-02-03, 17:47

On another note; this most recent experiment of the Organization makes me wonder if Alicia and Beth are now much stronger then we were previously led to believe.

why would she be?

because she killed 11 abs at once?

Riful did the same if i recall correctly.

itisjustme

2009-02-03, 17:49

I agree that Claymore is losing momentum. Post-timeskip is going everywhere with Riful/Raciella, the demons, Rubel, Clarice/Miata/Galatea, Raki/Priscilla, etc. Might still be awesome when everything's done, but turning it into a multi-POV story might not be the best pacing choice for a monthly publication. We might not see the (at least temporary) conclusion to those arcs for years..

Nice to see Helen getting wounded though, the Ghosts had been a little too invincible so far. Even if she went down a bit too easily it seems.

chibamonster

2009-02-03, 17:57

Hehe, of course you won't see the end of Claymore's arcs for years. That is the point of a serialized manga. If you wrap everything up people lose interest. Look at the TV shows like LOST. Of course there are smaller elements introduced that are answered (what the Island looks like, why the swords don't break, etc). Claymore has answered tons of questions post time skip. But the thing that bothers people are the questions that are left unanswered and foreshadowed events/characters that are yet to be introduced. We heard about Renee more than a year before we met her.

Clare has not seen Priscilla since chapter 30 (That is 58 chapters which is 4 years and 10 months at the moment) , and hasn't seen Raki since chapter 34 (4 and a half years). How is that for leaving a thematic arc hanging in real world time?

And darkness is coming for the Claymore world. Pieta was just a taste.

Sleepy Speculator

2009-02-03, 18:33

Well at least we now know what happens if they use awakened flesh to make a warrior, anyway you look at those things they are a form of awakened being, with not a shred of humanity.

I think this helpfully eradicates (or at least greatly reduces) the theory that Miata was made using an Ab as a donor. And fortunately two weaknesses have been revealed straight off the bat. The reliance on sense of movement, and the sense of smell.

I'm not sure what's going on with Isley, but i don't think he's spent seven whole years running from these things, as he still shows he knows little about them. And i have to admit i'm getting kinda suspicious of the copious amounts of information Dietrich has.

I get the feeling that this brings this arc to a near conclusion. And i'm wondering if Dietrich is now gonna trail Helen and Deneve back to Rabona, causing the org to lose another warrior.

germanturkey

2009-02-03, 18:37

if you guys didn't notice, the picture with isley pinning down the AE, the AE is licking him..

i would guess that in this type of situation, Clare and maybe Miria would be able to easily dispatch them. since they can slice really fast.. Deneve and Helen's attributes don't really match up against them.

chibamonster

2009-02-03, 18:38

@Sleepy: I would not put the Miata theory out completely. These demons have been modified to behave the way they do. This is not the natural form of implanting an AB into a human, but a bound and gagged lobotomized one. Sort of like how Alicia and Beth are claymores, but have been trained and created specially so that they cannot be used like normal Claymores.

Though the real key to Miata's mystery is her mother I think.

And Deitrich does know a lot... If these things can hunt AO's and keep them busy the organization has their own upper hand as well. Riful has Raciella. Isley had Priscilla. The org has Abyssal Feeders. While these elements are immensely powerful, none of them seem stable. If these things can keep the AO's busy, Alicia might have the upper hand on the island. Of course, Raciella (who is both Claymore AND AB) and Priscilla (who regenerates with pure bottomless youki) are unknowns as well.

khryoleoz

2009-02-03, 18:40

if you guys didn't notice, the picture with isley pinning down the AE, the AE is licking him..
Hmm...sounds kinky. What's he pinning her down with I wonder?

TooPurePureBoy

2009-02-03, 18:44

Hmm...sounds kinky. What's he pinning her down with I wonder?

His *cough* spear. :heh:

Vinak

2009-02-03, 18:46

with his long, manly...lance

bakaelite

2009-02-03, 18:53

@Sleepy: I would not put the Miata theory out completely. These demons have been modified to behave the way they do. This is not the natural form of implanting an AB into a human, but a bound and gagged lobotomized one. Sort of like how Alicia and Beth are claymores, but have been trained and created specially so that they cannot be used like normal Claymores.

I think these demons ARE the result of having AB flesh implanted instead of a regular youma's. I recall that the process of turning into a claymore is an extremely painful process. Because an AB is different from a youma, and because of the exponentially higher youki they possess, their flesh was probably too much for those poor orphan girls to handle and they went crazy, unable to fight off the demon desires. so the only useful purpose they had was being used like dogs, and it probably took the Org years to make them learn to hunt only Isley, so Isley may have met them only recently, in a span of months or just a few of the seven years, which is why he is still studying them, trying to glean info.

Awakened

2009-02-03, 19:19

It seems like the Org is able to reprogram the brain, almost like that Yoma that took Raki's brother's brain.

Dietrich explanation about the AEs is an acceptable one.

1) human implanted in Clare: she has more control over her yoki. Easily goes over her limit.

2) Yoman implanted in girsl: less control over yoki over 75% (random number), afraid to go over limit.

3) above average Ab implanted in girls: No control over yoki.

If you look at the pattern it makes sense. The only reason they are the way they are is because of the Org, not the Ab's flesh. They might have been more like normal Abs without the Org brain reprogramming.

Even if they don't awaken when they take on Ab flesh, they would be more like Abs than human. Tthey have to fight against a stronger yoki to stay in control.

Helen's Apple

2009-02-03, 19:28

Vinak

2009-02-03, 19:32

I can't help but think this has been turned into some kind of sick porno

flesh.....eating....girls

Negativedark

2009-02-03, 19:43

I can't help but think this has been turned into some kind of sick porno

flesh.....eating....girls

No, that would be Berserk.

If the ZCS stop to eat the peices of Isley that get cut off then that does give him a chance to get away.
If Helen does lose the eye, she could comb her hair over on that side of the face instead of wearing an eyepatch.
Let's see Dietrich get fitted for a black leather outfit, shall we?

Freya

2009-02-03, 20:04

I don't see how Claymore is getting bad...it's still good.

All I have to say is....unless Isley seriously goes into hiding like WAY North or whatever,...... gg to him. He's gonna get owned.

LONEWOLF13

2009-02-03, 20:10

No, that would be Berserk.

If the ZCS stop to eat the peices of Isley that get cut off then that does give him a chance to get away.
If Helen does lose the eye, she could comb her hair over on that side of the face instead of wearing an eyepatch.
Let's see Dietrich get fitted for a black leather outfit, shall we?

Heh you might as well give a call on Gatsu for this with his Clomp of Iron.:D

Lizard

2009-02-03, 20:59

I think this helpfully eradicates (or at least greatly reduces) the theory that Miata was made using an Ab as a donor. And fortunately two weaknesses have been revealed straight off the bat. The reliance on sense of movement, and the sense of smell.

Well, I dont know, Miata and ZSC are simmiliar quite the bit...
Miata has some kind of ability that allows her to predict enemy movements and locate them at great distances, without using her yoki senses even once, Abyssal Feeders are cut from thei yoki senses and are effectively blind, yet they are able to sense moving things with great accuracy and somehow sniff out Isley from far away.
Miata has ridiculous regenerative abilities- in her battle in Pieta she was able to regenerate both her cut off arms, without going over limits (also she seems to ignore her body being pierced by several tentacles), nothing on ZCS, but still better than most (I would even say all) other Claymores.
Also her physical strenght is abnormal compared to other Claymores- she is only claymore so far that got to hand to hand combat with yomas and shreded them to bit. ZCS too, arent exactly weaklings...
Also Miata is so far the most mentally umbalanced claymore so far,before she "bonded" with Clarice she pretty much attacked almost everyone she saw which could be an effect of AB part in her...
She could be an early experiment and stepping stone between warriors and ZCS, or a failed experiment where they tried to create normal warrior with AB flesh, before they figured out how to create more monstrous ZCS, etc, etc...(or she could be something completly different, I like the theory but it is just that, a theory:) )

No, that would be Berserk.
Nah, Berserk is Flesh-eating-monsters on girls and this is Flesh-eating-girls on monsters....

Tevourious

2009-02-03, 21:13

Okay I notice the gore quality has jumped with this issue, Usually severed limbs and what not are clean smooth dark spots. This is the first time outright gore and nasty has been shown. Excluding D's first arm regen.

Anyway, these AE's are NASTY!!!! Also I don't think they care one bit about Claymores. Helen took the first swing, the thing just landed near her and responded to Helen's attack. I'm thinking they won't follow.

The Org would be foolish to release a set of monsters that they can't control especially if they go around killing their own soldiers..... << << Riiiiight.... LOL I just wonder if the Orgz has some way to round them all up afterwards. They may have a limited life span.
IE They'll die without a influx of Abyssal flesh after a while. Once they've eaten all the abyssal, problem solved

Cyclone

2009-02-03, 21:31

I get the feeling that this brings this arc to a near conclusion. And i'm wondering if Dietrich is now gonna trail Helen and Deneve back to Rabona, causing the org to lose another warrior.

Personally, I'm getting really suspicious of Dietrich. I think she may turn out to be an Org Spy.
Consider that she refuses to lie to the Org, which shows loyalty to them, despite her knowing the horrible things they do. This combination makes a person I don't think is trustworthy. If Helen and Deneve drag her back to Rabona, it could be a grave mistake [Alica and Beth would probably be sent to Rabona].

Cyclone

2009-02-03, 21:45

myshka

2009-02-03, 22:38

it's too bad that the AB flesh they used for ZACS came from the yoma defeated by Alicia, I would have loved it if one of them was part Ophelia or something :)

Also, in that same chapter, Rubel is showing Galatea Alicia and Beth at full power. I wonder if the reasoning behind it was the knowledge of ZACS forthcoming creation. From a spy's perspective ZACS are a success, since they do not attack anyone but the designated target. Also Galatea went AWOL soon there after, so she must know something.....

Vinak

2009-02-03, 22:45

Ah, how soon you forget... For example:
- Clare splitting a youma's head in two (on several occasions)
- Clare getting impaled by the youma
- the nameless Claymore who walks into town and meets Clare from Riful's place.
- Irene strolling in the rain
- Pricilla snacking in a town in the north in ES3
and many more

the gore detail wasn't so high as its been shown here.
we see bone structure and internal organs in this chapter. where normally we would only see darkness.

Bikerider

2009-02-03, 22:50

Looks like my speculation that the Clare Experiment is the origin for these Abyssal Eaters is confirmed.

Serrintine

2009-02-03, 22:50

I'm split on this. I don't particularly care for the ZACSs in this arc. I'm willing to give Yagi the benefit of the doubt on this, and see where it all goes. I guess he needs to get things moving a bit after 7 years of time skip stagnation.

The problem with a monthly manga like this is that once you catch up to it, it goes painfully slowly in your mind for a while. If, several months from now, you go back and re-read the manga in sequence, you wont notice the pace change. It's an odd thing, but something I've noticed.

Yep. Once enough chapters are accumulated, go back and read them again. It's kind of like earning money in strategy games. It can be so painfully slow when you are in the collecting process, but once you have enough, you can indulge in many luxuries :)

Ah, how soon you forget... For example:
- Clare splitting a youma's head in two (on several occasions)
- Clare getting impaled by the youma
- the nameless Claymore who walks into town and meets Clare from Riful's place.
- Irene strolling in the rain
- Pricilla snacking in a town in the north in ES3
and many more

But in this new installment, you see the skin stick to cobblestones...like those squishy slime ball blobs that one can buy at any toy store :heh: then you see some semi intestine like objects scattered on the ground, which, if I'm not being too forgetful, has not really been shown so explicitly before. I mean in previous chapters, blood and guts are all just black inkish sprays and masses.

Mangaloid

2009-02-03, 22:52

I think the increased gore in this chapter was to emphasize the ZACS incredible regenerative abilities.

Vinak

2009-02-03, 22:57

or maybe it confirms the possibility that claymores are just big sacks of goo

Serrintine

2009-02-03, 23:01

No it's the ZACS (what does the A stand for? awakened?) who are big sacks of goo. Or more like sticky slime creatures.

theevilanimal

2009-02-03, 23:26

zombie amazon claymore strippers, lol.

Tevourious

2009-02-03, 23:57

the gore detail wasn't so high as its been shown here.
we see bone structure and internal organs in this chapter. where normally we would only see darkness.

Just what I'm saying :)

Droplet

2009-02-03, 23:58

Tevourious

2009-02-03, 23:59

I think the sticking to the wall was just from Isley slapping it stupid and it splattered like a bug on a windshield.

Freya

2009-02-04, 00:12

I wanna see Riful and Priscella against the AF's.

yezhanquan

2009-02-04, 00:16

Seems that for all the powers we've seen so far, none of the Claymores could produce "burning" or any other similar effect. Would be pretty useful now.

Droplet

2009-02-04, 00:19

I think the key to killing the Feeders is that you need only be faster than them. Fast enough to slice their heads off before they are even able to evade.

Miria and Clare would wipe the floor with these abominations.

Negativedark

2009-02-04, 00:21

Isley...I hope you GTF away from there. :upset:

Superb chapter. Shows what happens when you combine a human with AB flesh then subsequently lobotomize it.

After reading Diet's exposition on the Abyssal Feeders, I couldn't believe the org was way more cruel than I already thought. The procedure in which Feeders were created sound absolutely dehumanizing.

Why were these monsters introduced when so much story was still available? I'm calling Chekov's Gun. I think the org's new toys are destined to backfire against them. For one, Isley might consider allying with the Ghosts.

Yay.

Now, another month of waiting.

How could it backfire... Hmmmnnn....
Rimuto and some men in black are just walking around the Orgs HQ when Miria runs in and throws some bottles at them covering them in the contents. Rimuto pics up one of the bottles and reads the label.
Rimuot-"Isley sauce. Smells and tastes just like real Isley!"
ZACS-"NOM NOM NOM!"
Rimuto-"Oh Shi-"

germanturkey

2009-02-04, 00:24

i'm confused at what ZACS stand for.. can't we just call them Abyssal eaters?

i don't think this stemmed from Clare. since clare was a high power warrior placed in a girl. this is rather the natural progression of the project. from normal yoma placed in a girl to an awakend one placed in a girl.

the outcomes are also very different. a high power warrior placed in a girl initially led to a subpar warrior who has some of the traits from original. (admit it, without clare's drive, she wouldn't be anything near where she is now)
a normal yoma mixed gives a normal warrior where the human consciousness still rules
an awakened being mixed gives a powerful warrior but no real senses (because stripped by the org?). if they retain their senses, they would probably all be > Miria/Clare and most likely be equal to or more powerful than AB.

yezhanquan

2009-02-04, 00:26

The "hounds" seemed to be :

1) In mass production.
2) Incapable of anything else besides hunting their targets.
3) Tough. Very tough.

Close to the perfect weapon, as far as the world of Claymore is concerned.

Weils

2009-02-04, 00:31

Dietrich's description for the Organization's Abyssal Feeders/Eaters/Devourers seems akin to dog sniffers. Once they smell the belongings of the target, they will track it down to its location. Well, except in this case, not to retrieve it back to their masters, but to eat them.

Sci-Fi

2009-02-04, 01:03

Seems like you need at least 11 warriors to surprise attack the ZCS in the head to kill them off. That's if Dietrich's intel is correct. Deneve noticed something about them, but didn't say anything (yet). Oddly enough, that's the number of Ghosts/Claymores, if you include Dietrich, that can do the job. Somebody will die or be injured though. Might need a few more converts/deserters for backup or diversion. Would be something the Ghosts will have to face sooner or later and this is just a setup until everybody returns to Rabona and whenever Miria decides to attack the Org. Claymores are supposed to protect the humans, so there might be temporary alliances with Claymores loyal to the Org to kill the common threat.

chibamonster

2009-02-04, 01:09

I liked Helen and Deneve's reaction when they looked behind them and saw Isley's awakened form. :eek:

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 01:16

Does Isley know that he has to aim at the head? Because I'm pretty sure he could shred the head of the AE (Abyssal Eater) he captured. (page 12-13)

Dietrich says that the ZACS -- I Prefer our term over AE :D -- mainly focus on defending their head. If you pay attention to how Helen lost her arm, it is because she went after the head in close range -- note where the blade comes out of the ZACS. So going after their head in close range combat is very risky business. If you go after them in long range, they can evade so their head doesn't get hit and then regenerate.

Dietrich says "The org forced them to crave only a single, particular meat." It seems the org has the option to make them follow a specific type of smell, i.e. yoma smell, AB smell or DOD smell. So actually, according to Dietrich's explanation, the org has found the perfect counter against DODs. Send a legion of abyssal eaters against DODs and they are done. :)

Wasn't it said that you need a piece of the creature you want the ZACS to hunt to complete the process? Didn't they get some flesh from Isley from his fight with Luciela? That means that you have to combat a DOD for him to lose a piece of his body, and only then can you create ZACS. That is very, very inefficient. It is better to use a male claymore against a DoD.

FlareKnight

2009-02-04, 01:16

Well this move to put that kind of flesh into people isn't a big surprise. Figured that sooner or later they'd experiment in that fashion. Used youma, with Clare used a powerful claymore, and now using awakened ones. Sadly for the Abyssal Eaters they end up in a terribly ugly state.

No wonder Isley wasn't in a good move when Helen and Deneve showed up. Getting hounded by those things would put anyone in a bad move. Guy will probably fight for a while longer and then retreat as I suspect has been the pattern for some time now.

With those things added into the mix things just get much more complicated. Considering how much trouble they are giving Isley if they ever went outside their designated target it'd be a disaster.

Sassarai

2009-02-04, 01:19

I liked Helen and Deneve's reaction when they looked behind them and saw Isley's awakened form. :eek:

What's so special about it?

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1912/83273516gx0.jpg

FlareKnight

2009-02-04, 01:27

What's so special about it?

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1912/83273516gx0.jpgDon't think its because the expressions were all that special, but just the wide eyes and dropped jaws. Though that second part can be explained with them needing to open their mouths to talk :heh:.

Going to be one heck of a report to Miria when they get back.

SuperiorX

2009-02-04, 01:28

well. this might explain it a little.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c38/vinak/16.jpg

Isley could be studying them as well.

Easley has a butch of fans that are blindly and unconditionaly in love with him (err his flesh).

the other thing is they want to devour Easley but what is going to happen to them after/if they do that after all they will be incorporating more AB flesh into themselves and not to forget the flesh of an AO one which may turn them into far worse monsters (the org may brig a new catastrophy upon the island as in the worst case scenario each on of them could became AO but some sort of failsafe most likely does exist)...

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 01:33

I got the opposite effect from this. AB's are different from Claymores. Once the limit is crossed they become something else and lose some of what made them human. The partially awakened Claymores are fundamentally different from normal claymores. Awakened beings and Claymores even smell different (as Ophelia said). A claymore can absolutely become an awakened being but a Claymore is not an awakened being without awakening.

Except for Ophelia, ;) who seems to have an 'awakened' mind already in a Claymore body, or that is to say that it would be hard to tell the difference once she did awaken, since she had already lost those values that make you human.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 01:46

I agree with Khry and the others that Claymore is losing momentum; Yagi has spread out the story a bit too far at the moment, which is going to lessen the impact when the arcs are weaved together. Depending on how much longer he will take to resolve them, the feelings from returning to those lines could vary from "Finally!" all the way to "Who cares now?"

"Epic" can mean "unusually large," but I prefer "heroic," thanks.

However, that disappointment (and it is relatively minor, easily turned around with the next installment) doesn't keep me from the true issue at hand:

Mistress! Your eye! :<
I will be angry if Helen has to wear an eye patch!

I do also agree with Chiba's reasoning as far as Miata's origins are concerned, in that it is entirely possible that AB flesh was used to make her. It would account on some level for her strength, but I still lean toward her lineage for answers.

Personally, I think it is entirely more likely that Dietrich is a reverted Abyss-Feeder -- or, something different, depending. That same flesh from Isley which was used to train the Feeders to hunt him could very well have been used to create Dietrich. Not probable, but something to consider, and it'd explain how she might know so much, perhaps.

Or, more probable, that flesh could've been used to create Alicia and Beth. Curious, curious.

Well since everyone is putting up their opinions, I don't think Claymore is losing it's moment, yet. I was a bit worried when the 7 year skip started and I saw Clarice instead of Clare. But to me Yagi is painting a masterful collage at the moment. When I first saw the ZACS, I wasn't too sure about zombies in Claymore; it was a bit out there. But this chapter has shown that there are things that can even be scarier than Abyssals. I wouldn't mind if Yagi tells us how Raki and Isley split before returning to Clare. :) But honestly, if Yagi hadn't done the multi POV thing, then you wouldn't have got to see Helen and her character being developed. She has become less two dimensional in this arc. I felt your pain about the eye; I was praying it wasn't true since that spoiler first surfaced, but then when I saw the "Claymore continued in April" bit I knew it was the true spoiler. I was afraid she would lose the arm for good too.

Anyway, this chapter was great IMO.

Lynn Alstreim

2009-02-04, 02:08

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 02:13

Hello,everyone! I'm from China and I am mad about claymore.
I really appreciate ZAC. That is wonderful.
I have some doubts about ZACs. As they can only feel people who are moving quickly.
So you can hold your breath and move to them slowly with you sword. When you get closer,wave your sword directly to their heads.Then ZACs can be killed.
Isely is not stupid. He will certainly know how to kill them.

Nah, if you move close and try to decapitate them, what happened to Helen will happen to you. It is very important to note just where the blade that cut off Helen's arm came out of. The way to beat the ZACS is to setup booby traps designed to decapitate them, and lure them into the booby trapped filed area. It can't be just one trap, it has to be hundreds, hundreds! *starts to manically laugh*

Vinak

2009-02-04, 02:15

The "hounds" seemed to be :

1) In mass production.

where do you get this from? all we know for certain is their are 11 of them.

Hello,everyone! I'm from China and I am mad about claymore.
I really appreciate ZAC. That is wonderful.
I have some doubts about ZACs. As they can only feel people who are moving quickly.
So you can hold your breath and move to them slowly with you sword. When you get closer,wave your sword directly to their heads.Then ZACs can be killed.
Isely is not stupid. He will certainly know how to kill them.

problem comes when you try to swing your sword. I am quite certain one would need to swing your sword with sufficient velocity to ensure a decapitation. unless of course you try to saw it off. but i am sure the zacs would notice that after a while :p

zato_1one

2009-02-04, 02:17

It's no doubt that they will go after only Isley's fresh. Their eye and mouth were tightly shut and what they only knew up to now was Isley's smell. In a sense, that's very tragic.

Vinak

2009-02-04, 02:19

eh. Isley just needs to leave a bread crumb path of his own flesh all the way to Riful, then he can kill 2 birds with one stone.

Lynn Alstreim

2009-02-04, 02:21

So I can put my sword on ZCAs neck. That's very close to their heads,right?
Then quikly wave. That will work.

Nvis

2009-02-04, 02:24

Helen may need an eyepatch. :sad:

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 02:27

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7336/neckfacebladefk0.gif (http://imageshack.us)

The above is why you don't want to decapitate a Zombie Amazon Claymore Stripper from close range. They guard their head more than anything else, and if you try to decapitate them you are likely to lose an Arm. The above pic proves that Helen tried to decapitate the Zombie, but it didn't turn out too good for her.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 02:29

eh. Isley just needs to leave a bread crumb path of his own flesh all the way to Riful, then he can kill 2 birds with one stone.

They used a piece of Isley to create the specific taste the ZACS seek. He could lead the ZACS to Riful and they'll still crave him and ignore her.

Lynn Alstreim

2009-02-04, 02:29

Can Deneve give her eye to Helen? She can cure herself quickly and this can save Helen.
O(∩_∩)O

Lynn Alstreim

2009-02-04, 02:32

The above is why you don't want to decapitate a Zombie Amazon Claymore Stripper from close range. They guard their head more than anything else, and if you try to decapitate them you are likely to lose an Arm. The above pic proves that Helen tried to decapitate the Zombie, but it didn't turn out too good for her.

Sorry,I did't notice that. If this doesn't work, how about Clare's skill? She waves her sword faster than anyone. Maybe this can cut ZCAs into pieces:p? Remember about Ricardo?

Sassarai

2009-02-04, 02:32

Can Deneve give her eye to Helen? She can cure herself quickly and this can save Helen.
O(∩_∩)O

Blah the manga needs to start killing off Claymores again! Fighting tough awakened beings and killing off beloved Claymores. Get back to its roots!

Vinak

2009-02-04, 02:43

They used a piece of Isley to create the specific taste the ZACS seek. He could lead the ZACS to Riful and they'll still crave him and ignore her.
well the master plan would be for Isley to lead them to Riful. then he takes a junk of himself and tosses it at Riful then he runs away.

While Riful is like. WTF man?
the zombies will then pounce on her :D
Sorry,I did't notice that. If this doesn't work, how about Clare's skill? She waves her sword faster than anyone. Maybe this can cut ZCAs into pieces:p? Remember about Ricardo?

that is what i am hoping for. perhaps Clare will forge an alliance with Isley. or just kill them outright

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 02:44

Sorry,I did't notice that. If this doesn't work, how about Clare's skill? She waves her sword faster than anyone. Maybe this can cut ZCAs into pieces:p? Remember about Ricardo?

I think our seven ghosts could take out the eleven ZACS. The ZACS are very similar to Miata, in that they have no strategic capabilities when fight and only rely on instincts. Agatha beat a probably superior Miata, because she had strategy. The ghost can play chess; the ZACS can't and are predictable. Also, they probably specifically evolve to exploit the weaknesses of their prey. ZACS that are good against Isley, might not stand a chance against Riful and all her Ribbons; on the other hand, ZACS that would've been designed to kill Riful, could be weak against Isley. These ZACS are so dumb, that you could make them follow you over a rope bridge, which goes over a pool of acid or magma, and then cut the ropes at both ends. They might jump and then again they might not, as long as they feel their heads are safe. I don't think the org would have much problems disposing of the ZACS once they kill Isley. That is unless they gain intelligence.

Vinak

2009-02-04, 02:51

self awareness really seems to be a bad thing for evil zombies and robots alike.

Lynn Alstreim

2009-02-04, 02:57

I think our seven ghosts could take out the eleven ZACS. The ZACS are very similar to Miata, in that they have no strategic capabilities when fight and only rely on instincts. Agatha beat a probably superior Miata, because she had strategy. The ghost can play chess; the ZACS can't and are predictable. Also, they probably specifically evolve to exploit the weaknesses of their prey. ZACS that are good against Isley, might not stand a chance against Riful and all her Ribbons; on the other hand, ZACS that would've been designed to kill Riful, could be weak against Isley. These ZACS are so dumb, that you could make them follow you over a rope bridge, which goes over a pool of acid or magma, and then cut the ropes at both ends. They might jump and then again they might not, as long as they feel their heads are safe. I don't think the org would have much problems disposing of the ZACS once they kill Isley. That is unless they gain intelligence.

That's why I like Miria. She has a brilliant head. Maybe claymore will have a good ending.
However, if awaken beings can be uesd to make claymores, then how about using Isely's body?
This can develop a creature which is stronger than ever and use them to kill the 7ghosts, Isely as well as Riful

Lynn Alstreim

2009-02-04, 03:06

Blah the manga needs to start killing off Claymores again! Fighting tough awakened beings and killing off beloved Claymores. Get back to its roots!

OK, at least at present Deneve can save Helen in this way.
Maybe Deneve and Helen will die a day or two, but now is another thing.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 03:09

Lynn Alstreim

2009-02-04, 03:31

The problem with using awakened being flesh is that whatever it creates only has a single target and then becomes useless. A Controlled Awakened being is still the most effective thing against a DoD. Now for those of you who want the org to do the same mistake that Riful is about to do, but with the ZACS. Well, what if ZACS like Claymore can awaken, but it isn't as likely to happen? ;) Probably won't happen in this manga, since we need to get rid of some power players.

Alicia and Beth is a successful work? Alicia can be controlled. But if we beat Beth, Alicia will soon awake and can not be controlled by the alliance.Maybe she will become a new DoD?
So controllede awaken beings are still far from real.

Droplet

2009-02-04, 03:42

Lynn Alstreim

2009-02-04, 03:56

I'm speculating that Tabitha may have detected Helen and Deneve's youki release along with Isley's transformation.

Miria rescuing Isley come next chapter wouldn't be bad at all. Isn't it also about time that the ghosts regroup?

Just hopeful to see Miria next month.

I do,too.
However, will Miria save Isely? Isely is the main reason why 17people died 7 years ago. You see Deneve's anger when seeing Isely.
Although it's impossilbe, I do hope Miria will come next chapter . Maybe have a talk with Isely and find he is not a bad guy. Then Isely and Miria can form a team?:D

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 04:09

Alicia and Beth is a successful work? Alicia can be controlled. But if we beat Beth, Alicia will soon awake and can not be controlled by the alliance.Maybe she will become a new DoD?
So controllede awaken beings are still far from real.

DoD = Descendants of Dragons, which are the monsters the Org is fighting on the mainland, and the reasons why the org started creating Awakened Being. I'm just went over that because you said Alicia might become a DoD, which she can't, and I am assuming you guys use another word to describe DoDs.

But anyway, No, I don't think Alicia and Beth are a success. I think the org has layed all their eggs in one Basket, because of arrogance, and may pay for it. I see Raciella, what us Claymore fans on this site have dubbed the monster that is Luciela and Rafaela combined, kill Alicia because of the many parallels between the two, and the fact that Rafaela and Luciela are supposed to be a failed version of Alicia and Beth. What the org really wants is Clare, when it comes to controlled awakened beings. Rubel seems to think that the Half Awakends are more dangerous to his side than the direction the org is going with Alicia and Beth. Rubel doesn't know that Clare is as far along as she is in that she can partially awaken. :upset: Shoot that reminds me: I wanted to see Deneve partially awaken; I always thought that she would be the second Claymore to do it, since she is always crossing that dangerous line with forced awakenings to heal herself.

Ryuken

2009-02-04, 04:12

The earlier chapter finished when Helen and Deneve started to release their yoki and were about to encounter Isley. But it seems that was what the ZACS sensed. But when they arrived both Helen and Deneve had stopped releasing their yoki. Something wrong there I guess.:eyebrow::(

Droplet

2009-02-04, 04:24

IMO, Helen only lost her arm because she wasn't aware yet of how the ZACS behave.

Re: Ryuken - I think the ZACS can't sense Yoki, Diet explains on p. 27 "They have been modified so that they release no youki, but at the price of being able to sense yoki themselves". If I'm reading this right, it means that the org sacrificed the ZACS' yoki sensing for yoki-less stealth.

Lynn Alstreim

2009-02-04, 04:30

DoD = Descendants of Dragons, which are the monsters the Org is fighting on the mainland, and the reasons why the org started creating Awakened Being. I'm just went over that because you said Alicia might become a DoD, which she can't, and I am assuming you guys use another word to describe DoDs.

But anyway, No, I don't think Alicia and Beth are a success. I think the org has layed all their eggs in one Basket, because of arrogance, and may pay for it. I see Raciella, what us Claymore fans on this site have dubbed the monster that is Luciela and Rafaela combined, kill Alicia because of the many parallels between the two, and the fact that Rafaela and Luciela are supposed to be a failed version of Alicia and Beth. What the org really wants is Clare, when it comes to controlled awakened beings. Rubel seems to think that the Half Awakends are more dangerous to his side than the direction the org is going with Alicia and Beth. Rubel doesn't know that Clare is as far along as she is in that she can partially awaken. :upset: Shoot that reminds me: I wanted to see Deneve partially awaken; I always thought that she would be the second Claymore to do it, since she is always crossing that dangerous line with forced awakenings to heal herself.

Terribly sorry. Since this is the first time I come here, I did't know that DOD stands for Descendants of Dragons. Also, my English is not good enough to guess this out:upset:.What I mean is that if Alicia lose control, she will become someone like Isely and Riful. So what do you call these people like Isely or Riful? I wrongly thought you call them DOD:eyespin:So I've made a mistake:eyebrow:

As for Deneve,I think partly awaken is not for everyone.Clare is main character:p. But Deneve's not.:pIt's just a joke. Then how about Miria?She lived through many things and she's stronger than Clare. What's more, partly awaken is a very dangerous thing. Jean sacrificed her life to make Clare back to human. If Deneve partly awaken,who will save her?Then I do think when it comes to partly awaken again, that'll be the end of the story.As someone said,this story is to kill the beloved claymores.I really hope they can get away from partly awaken.That can save lives,anyway.

Ryuken

2009-02-04, 04:45

Man these ZACS are like hound dogs. The Silver King looks composed, but I don't think he really is in the inside. How to deal with these sexy ladies will definitely be on the back of his mind.:)

PureYoki

2009-02-04, 05:00

If you pay attention to how Helen lost her arm, it is because she went after the head in close range -- note where the blade comes out of the ZACS. So going after their head in close range combat is very risky business.

So even if Isley transforms his arm into a sledgehammer and attempts to crush the head, the AE can still defend itself. Isley is fast, Isley is strong, Isley is big, Isley is an AO and if Isley doesn't have the power to crush the head of an AE that he pinned, AEs are practically immortal.

Wasn't it said that you need a piece of the creature you want the ZACS to hunt to complete the process? Didn't they get some flesh from Isley from his fight with Luciela? That means that you have to combat a DOD for him to lose a piece of his body, and only then can you create ZACS. That is very, very inefficient. It is better to use a male claymore against a DoD.

So the org's side failed to kill or even cut off a piece of any DOD until now? :confused: Because once you have a piece of flesh, you can create lots of AEs who will hunt down DODs. And IMO the AE strategy is the best strategy they have in hand.

Kerubin

2009-02-04, 05:40

my thoughts on the chapter, why Miata is one of the AE.

http://kerubinist.blogspot.com/2009/02/claymore-88.html (http://kerubinist.blogspot.com/2009/02/claymore-88.html)

itisjustme

2009-02-04, 06:01

Korinov

2009-02-04, 06:57

The thing I don't understand is, why make a show of letting the ghost duo release their yoki in the preceding chapter? And there I thought, if they fought that well without any yoki they'll be on another level with, then bam, next chapter they get smacked around by zombie exhibitionists, what a letdown. =P

Yeah, I thought the same when I started reading Chapter 88. What I believe is that Yagi had another plans to develop the fight, maybe a few pages with Helen & Deneve vs. Isley, then the zombies' attack and Dietrich's ninja move. But somehow, he decided to speed up things a little, a decission I really approve.

About Isley's fate, I'm sorry for his fans but looks clear that he's not gonna last long. At least I expect he can kill every 'abyssal feeders' before falling himself due to deep wounds.

And welcome to One-eyed Helen! :D

Droplet

2009-02-04, 07:19

Kerubin: I read your commentary. Cool. :]

Well, it would make sense if Miata was a special case. So, I agree with your points. (1. Miata's super smell. 2. Miata's super regeneration. 3. Freakish strength.) If that's true, then I guess she is "Miata - the ZACS that was not".

Bikerider

2009-02-04, 07:26

I'm speculating that Riful knows about the ZACS. That's why she wants to awaken the Raffy-Lucy thingie.

FateAnomaly

2009-02-04, 07:35

I think Isley should just focus on killing one and then run away. Just keep repeating. They are only that powerful as a group.

Somehow i think he is trying to be cool or something when he is fighting those things. He is not even moving.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 10:11

Terribly sorry. Since this is the first time I come here, I did't know that DOD stands for Descendants of Dragons. Also, my English is not good enough to guess this out:upset:.What I mean is that if Alicia lose control, she will become someone like Isely and Riful. So what do you call these people like Isely or Riful? I wrongly thought you call them DOD:eyespin:So I've made a mistake:eyebrow:

Yeah, I figured that, and even for a native english speaker it takes awhile to figure out some of the acronyms and terms we use. DoD = Descendants of Dragon, Dragonkin, which we use to describe the monsters of the other side the org is fighting against, or something the other side itself since we don't have a name for it. Riful and Isley are Abyssal Ones, Dwellers of the Deep, which is just a term for an Awakened Being or AB for short that was a #1 Ranked Claymore. Also Miria's group, I think, is officially referred to as "the ghosts" by the manga. We also call the survivors of the war of the north, "the magnificent seven" Clare, Miria, Helen and Deneve, the four Claymores from the Slasher arc or sometimes referred to as "the fabulous four" here. And Clare, Helen and Deneve have been recently referred to as "the troublesome three" since they go against Miria's orders right away. Abyssal Eaters is the official term from the manga for those zombie chicks that hound Isley, but some of us prefer to call them ZACS or ZCS for Zombie Amazon Claymore Strippers, since they look like zombies but a barely dressed like strippers. I suggested the A since I thought it needed the vowel for Amazons since they are slightly taller than Claymores and look like strong women. Half Awakened also is Awakening and stopping before you fully awaken, while Partially Awakening is awakening parts of your body like Clare did in the North. I think that's most of the specific language used on this forum that might be confusing for people just joining in. :D

As for Deneve,I think partly awaken is not for everyone.Clare is main character:p. But Deneve's not.:pIt's just a joke. Then how about Miria?She lived through many things and she's stronger than Clare. What's more, partly awaken is a very dangerous thing. Jean sacrificed her life to make Clare back to human. If Deneve partly awaken,who will save her?Then I do think when it comes to partly awaken again, that'll be the end of the story.As someone said,this story is to kill the beloved claymores.I really hope they can get away from partly awaken.That can save lives,anyway.

I think it is possible for all the troublesome three to do it at some point in the story. I thought Deneve would be next because she half awakened just to find out what her specific limit was, which is more irresponsible than anything Clare does. Deneve has half awakened more than any other Claymore except for Clare. Helen like Clare would do anything to win in a battle, I think. She is very wreckless going into town just to get a peek at Isley -- a curiosity that cost her, her eye. Miria is the only one of the fabulous four that isn't irresponsible enough to partially awake to win a fight Helen, Clare, and Deneve all would. So far only Clare has figured out how to do it, but Deneve is close to doing it too.

Negativedark

2009-02-04, 10:27

Did anyone do a accurate Headcount on the Abyss Feeders? Cause I never saw more than eight on a page at a time.

Methuselah

2009-02-04, 10:33

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 10:34

So even if Isley transforms his arm into a sledgehammer and attempts to crush the head, the AE can still defend itself. Isley is fast, Isley is strong, Isley is big, Isley is an AO and if Isley doesn't have the power to crush the head of an AE that he pinned, AEs are practically immortal.

The ZACS did manage to cut off his arm; what if they can cut right through his sledge hammer. And I've been speculating that the ZACS are faster than Abyssal Ones in the same manner than Claymore are faster than Yoma.

So the org's side failed to kill or even cut off a piece of any DOD until now? :confused: Because once you have a piece of flesh, you can create lots of AEs who will hunt down DODs. And IMO the AE strategy is the best strategy they have in hand.

There is one thing that you are missing. If the org gains the flesh of one particular DoD, assuming that DoD flesh will work like Abyssal One's, then the ZACS created using that flesh -- the flesh to install their craving not to create them -- will only have a craving for that particular DoD. That is why these ZACS are ineffective against Riful; they don't fight all Abyssal Ones, just Isley. So in the DoD case, you would fight it just to get a piece of his body to give future ZACS a craving for. Why not fight to kill the DoD with a male claymore who will awaken in the heat of the battle instead? It is much more efficient than fighting to get a piece of a DoD body to rush off to the lab and then create ZACS to hunt him with, and once those ZACS kill him they won't care about other DoDs. So ZACS are for very specific missions only.

The thing I don't understand is, why make a show of letting the ghost duo release their yoki in the preceding chapter? And there I thought, if they fought that well without any yoki they'll be on another level with, then bam, next chapter they get smacked around by zombie exhibitionists, what a letdown. =P

Our troublesome duo, put up a show releasing their yoki because it was the first time in seven years. And instead of being let down, I think you should realize just how dangerous and scary these zombies are. The problem is we are reading a manga, so our sense of speed is nullified. But the way I am imagining it is the ZACS slowly move up to their target like zombies, but once in battle they move very swiftly and are faster than a supposedly fast Abyssal One like Isley. Helen is a half awakened ghost who has been training for seven years and very smartly went for the head shot. The ZACS reflexes and speed apparently were greater than an elite fighter's like Helen's. These ZACS aren't lingering about like the Zombies we see in movies; they have changed their speed once they crept up to their target and are fighting very swiftly now.

I'm speculating that Riful knows about the ZACS. That's why she wants to awaken the Raffy-Lucy thingie.

Riful has pretty much said that Raciella is for Prissy. I think that Riful is so focused on Priscilla now that she completely forgot to check up on Isley.

Lynn Alstreim

2009-02-04, 10:36

Yeah, I figured that, and even for a native english speaker it takes awhile to figure out some of the acronyms and terms we use. DoD = Descendants of Dragon, Dragonkin, which we use to describe the monsters of the other side the org is fighting against, or something the other side itself since we don't have a name for it. Riful and Isley are Abyssal Ones, Dwellers of the Deep, which is just a term for an Awakened Being or AB for short that was a #1 Ranked Claymore. Also Miria's group, I think, is officially referred to as "the ghosts" by the manga. We also call the survivors of the war of the north, "the magnificent seven" Clare, Miria, Helen and Deneve, the four Claymores from the Slasher arc or sometimes referred to as "the fabulous four" here. And Clare, Helen and Deneve have been recently referred to as "the troublesome three" since they go against Miria's orders right away. Abyssal Eaters is the official term from the manga for those zombie chicks that hound Isley, but some of us prefer to call them ZACS or ZCS for Zombie Amazon Claymore Strippers, since they look like zombies but a barely dressed like strippers. I suggested the A since I thought it needed the vowel for Amazons since they are slightly taller than Claymores and look like strong women. Half Awakened also is Awakening and stopping before you fully awaken, while Partially Awakening is awakening parts of your body like Clare did in the North. I think that's most of the specific language used on this forum that might be confusing for people just joining in. :D

Thank you very much.:)That's very useful to me. We have some similiar languages in China. For Isely, we call him horse in the north. For Riful, noodles in the west because when she awakes, she looks like noodles. We call Mira, Helen,Clare,Deneve the four cockroach.:DThe reason is that they're not easy to die like a cockroach;)funny?

I think it is possible for all the troublesome three to do it at some point in the story. I thought Deneve would be next because she half awakened just to find out what her specific limit was, which is more irresponsible than anything Clare does. Deneve has half awakened more than any other Claymore except for Clare. Helen like Clare would do anything to win in a battle, I think. She is very wreckless going into town just to get a peek at Isley -- a curiosity that cost her, her eye. Miria is the only one of the fabulous four that isn't irresponsible enough to partially awake to win a fight Helen, Clare, and Deneve all would. So far only Clare has figured out how to do it, but Deneve is close to doing it too.

I do think when it comes to the ending, if there's a chance to beat the org,Miria will choose to be partly awaken,if she can,of course. Deneve looks calm,but she's actually impetuous. I agree that all of the fabulous four can be partly awaken.But I hope not. Partly awaken can cause someone's death or make them become the awaken beings.:(

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 10:38

So they are hunting Isley. That explains why Raki and Pricilla split away from him. (Probably as they agreed upon) Guess this supports my earlier theory. Now what has this got to do with Clare. Raki knows a Claymore to take advantage of. (Besides Pricilla?)

I disagree. I think the split happened before the ZACS. Priscilla + Isley would've wiped out the ZACS. In fact, the Priscilla of seven years ago could've killed all the ZACS herself. The one now can't, I am assuming.

Methuselah

2009-02-04, 10:48

Besides that, here is an interesting thing.

If Raki's "armor" is made up of Isley's flesh, then I'm pretty sure the ZACS will turn on him in later chapter. Probably will force Pricilla over her limits and couldn't control her hunger.

germanturkey

2009-02-04, 10:50

what gave the impression that his armor is made out of Isley's flesh?

wait... didn't they shoot stuff at him and he stopped it with his armor right? ooh, interesting.

PureYoki

2009-02-04, 10:51

The ZACS did manage to cut off his arm; what if they can cut right through his sledge hammer. And I've been speculating that the ZACS are faster than Abyssal Ones in the same manner than Claymore are faster than Yoma.

If their heads are invulnerable to the point that even an AB of Isley's calibre can't damage even when they are pinned, then it's safe to assume that the AEs are simply indestructible and thus immortal.

There is one thing that you are missing. If the org gains the flesh of one particular DoD, assuming that DoD flesh will work like Abyssal One's, then the ZACS created using that flesh -- the flesh to install their craving not to create them -- will only have a craving for that particular DoD.

I disagree. You can train them to hunt Isley or you can train them to hunt ABs as a whole. (remember the dog analogy) At least this is what I understood from Dietrich's words in page 27.

Methuselah

2009-02-04, 10:54

what gave the impression that his armor is made out of Isley's flesh?

wait... didn't they shoot stuff at him and he stopped it with his armor right? ooh, interesting.

Haven't you also noticed that Raki's armor has the same cool looking designs like Isley's awakened form? And yes he deflected a Yoma's shots with just a mere hand armor. (Which i'm pretty sure it's not even as thick as a torso armor)

So:
Cool design
Black in color
Harder than steel

irvinethearcher

2009-02-04, 10:55

There is no proof that those zacs are faster than isley. There is even no proof that isley knew them until know. As far as i see the case the zacs have the surprise effect on their side. If isley had known that they could regenerate that fast he had probably repeatedly targeted their heads even if they are in half lying on the bottom.
In this case he had even a good winning chance.
There is perhaps another painful way for isley to escape. Loosing another arm and run for it. ;)
I don't think that those zacs can cut though a hardened weapon from isley. Cutting his arm off is far easier than that.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 10:59

Thank you very much.:)That's very useful to me. We have some similiar languages in China. For Isely, we call him horse in the north. For Riful, noodles in the west because when she awakes, she looks like noodles. We call Mira, Helen,Clare,Deneve the four cockroach.:DThe reason is that they're not easy to die like a cockroach;)funny?

Yes. Well the one we liked the best from looking at some of the spoiler talk from China was that Riful was refered to as "the loli of the west." Lolita :D So some of us call Priscilla the loli of the south and Miata the loli of the east because of that.

I do think when it comes to the ending, if there's a chance to beat the org,Miria will choose to be partly awaken,if she can,of course. Deneve looks calm,but she's actually impetuous. I agree that all of the fabulous four can be partly awaken.But I hope not. Partly awaken can cause someone's death or make them become the awaken beings.:(

I think the more Clare will try it the better control she will have. We also have all these Sensor types with the ghost now -- Tabitha, Cynthia, and Galatea -- who might be able to lend their support to Clare like Beth for Alicia. There are some people who want to see a fully awakened Clare too. But from a writer's standpoint, looking at what Claymore is about -- the struggle between human and demon sides -- I keep saying that Clare ultimately will be forced to choose a way of fighting. Clare has two different, incompatible, styles of fighting. One is The Way of Teresa which she uses to fight the six-armed Awakened Being in the Slashers arc. It is an elegant, defensive way of fighting, that uses grace instead of brute strength to kill the enemy. The other way Clare uses to fight is through partial awakening -- complete awakening while maintaining the human mind being the ultimate form -- which is more about using your awakened body to become more powerful than your enemy. And while clare can still use Teresa's gift while fighting like that, I don't think she can read all the minute details of yoki to fight like how Teresa would've. In fact, I don't think that Teresa could've done it herself. In her fight against Priscilla, at one point stopped fighting in her usual manner, when she couldn't read the minute details of Prisiclla's yoki, and instead started using her amazing skill, speed and strength that she had but usually never needed to use. It is my theory, that if a claymore with Teresa's ability uses too much yoki that they are not able to predict the opponents next moves as well as before. That is not to say that they don't sense some moves and can sense when to dodge, just that they aren't able to see all the little details. Teresa could probably take down Isley without using too much of her yoki, using her powerful style of precognition. Anyway, I think Clare has to choose between her human side and demon side at one point in the story.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 11:15

If their heads are invulnerable to the point that even an AB of Isley's calibre can't damage even when they are pinned, then it's safe to assume that the AEs are simply indestructible and thus immortal.

I disagree. You can train them to hunt Isley or you can train them to hunt ABs as a whole. (remember the dog analogy) At least this is what I understood from Dietrich's words in page 27.

I never said they were invulnerable, their heads are their weak spots, but Dietrich said that they mainly concern themselves in defending it. Also you are being a bit presumptuous about their strength. You don't know if they would get crushed by Isley sledge hammer or not. BTW, it may even be possible that Duff is better designed to fight these than Isley. Me I am also speculating on the things speed. As for who the ZACS hunt, page 27 very specifically says: "...And forced them to only crave a single, particular meat." That says they only crave one meat. I don't know how the org creates the craving. I saw it as them having human, fallen awakened being flesh, and then at some point in the process they add Isley's meat in the creation. But even if it is different, there is nothing to say that the org can train these things to crave someone else's meat.

There is no proof that those zacs are faster than isley. There is even no proof that isley knew them until know. As far as i see the case the zacs have the surprise effect on their side. If isley had known that they could regenerate that fast he had probably repeatedly targeted their heads even if they are in half lying on the bottom.
In this case he had even a good winning chance.
There is perhaps another painful way for isley to escape. Loosing another arm and run for it. ;)
I don't think that those zacs can cut though a hardened weapon from isley. Cutting his arm off is far easier than that.

Nope no proof on speed, just speculation founded upon a little logic. As for the ZACS and Isley, wasn't it said that all the problems in the south started around seven years ago? I guess I'll have to go back and read, later, to make sure. I don't have enough time to do so right now.

Ryuken

2009-02-04, 11:25

Yeah, I thought the same when I started reading Chapter 88. What I believe is that Yagi had another plans to develop the fight, maybe a few pages with Helen & Deneve vs. Isley, then the zombies' attack and Dietrich's ninja move. But somehow, he decided to speed up things a little, a decission I really approve.

About Isley's fate, I'm sorry for his fans but looks clear that he's not gonna last long. At least I expect he can kill every 'abyssal feeders' before falling himself due to deep wounds.

And welcome to One-eyed Helen! :D

This was something that I pointed out too. I guess Yagi doesn't want us to see the power of the yoki release after seven years yet. The full potential that is. Another thing that got me was Helen's attack. Her claymore should have met the blade from the neck of that ZACS, instead her arm was chopped off a little below the shoulder.:)

Awakened

2009-02-04, 11:29

This was something that I pointed out too. I guess Yagi doesn't want us to see the power of the yoki release after seven years yet. The full potential that is. Another thing that got me was Helen's attack. Her claymore should have met the blade from the neck of that ZACS, instead her arm was chopped off a little below the shoulder.:)

Helen was just to slow. ZACS react to fast movements.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 11:37

Helen was just to slow. ZACS react to fast movements.

Ah a bit of support for me about ZACS being fast. In order to react to fast movement means you have fast reflexes and have to move fast yourself. I just see it as logical if Claymore are faster than Yoma, that ZACS would be faster than the Awakened being they are designed to hunt.

@PureYoki:

BTW the designed to hunt bit makes me think that my speculation that the meat of the hunted is added at creation, as opposed to ZACS being trained. I think the ZACS are very specifically designed to fight Isley; that they would be no good against Riful. I think ZACS evolve based on whose meat you add to be the hunted.

LONEWOLF13

2009-02-04, 11:38

zombie amazon claymore strippers, lol.

There not strippers there Abyss Feeders:frustrated: goddanmed

witch punkass Otaku came up with that!.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 11:51

:p I'm only responsible for the Amazon bit; the original term wa ZCS which lacks a vowel. :) But anyway I prefer calling them ZACS pronounced as "Zacks" over the official term of Abyssal Eaters or Feeders, which just sounds kind of blah to me.

PureYoki

2009-02-04, 11:52

I never said they were invulnerable, their heads are their weak spots, but Dietrich said that they mainly concern themselves in defending it. Also you are being a bit presumptuous about their strength. You don't know if they would get crushed by Isley sledge hammer or not.

Let's assume that Isley has no means to overcome their defense to crush their heads. We know that Isley is very fast and very strong and if such a fast and strong attacker is inadequate to destroy them, doesn't it mean that they are invulnerable? (maybe except Priscilla) I'm not being presumptuous, I'm just deriving a logical conclusion from a given assumption. If I misunderstood your point, please feel free to elaborate. :)

As for who the ZACS hunt, page 27 very specifically says: "...And forced them to only crave a single, particular meat." That says they only crave one meat.

You can train a dog to follow the scent of a missing person, or you can train a dog to hunt all rabbits. Yes, we know the org forced them to only crave a particular meat but it was the org's choice to select a specific target, the statement doesn't entail that you have to select a specific target.

PureYoki

2009-02-04, 12:01

@PureYoki:

BTW the designed to hunt bit makes me think that my speculation that the meat of the hunted is added at creation, as opposed to ZACS being trained. I think the ZACS are very specifically designed to fight Isley; that they would be no good against Riful. I think ZACS evolve based on whose meat you add to be the hunted.

Hmm, so you think that rather than being trained, they have Isley's flesh in them and this is why they crave Isley's meat. Am I right?

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 12:09

Let's assume that Isley has no means to overcome their defense to crush their heads. We know that Isley is very fast and very strong and if such a fast and strong attacker is inadequate to destroy them, doesn't it mean that they are invulnerable? (maybe except Priscilla) I'm not being presumptuous, I'm just deriving a logical conclusion from a given assumption. If I misunderstood your point, please feel free to elaborate. :)

I didn't say that he has no means to, just that it is extremely difficult to; and he hasn't been able to, yet. And yes, we know that Isley is fast and very strong, and it is because of this that I think that the ZACS are even faster than Isley. Otherwise, they would've been decapitated by now. I don't think they are invulnerable; that would be like calling Isley invulnerable because he seems so when going up against Clarice. Horse type pokemon are just weak against stripper types, damn it. :D And that's what Presumptuous is: assuming too much. It is one thing to speculate, based on logic, but don't ever assume. These ZACS are pretty scarey, and we don't know if you can smash their heads in that easily. Isley could very well war hammer one, and there would be a hole in the ground in a stripper shape, and the zombie could very well climb out of that hole unharmed. You may have to cut off the head to kill one, not try to smash the head. We don't know the ZACS thoughness, constitution (bleh!)

You can train a dog to follow the scent of a missing person, or you can train a dog to hunt all rabbits. Yes, we know the org forced them to only crave a particular meat but it was the org's choice to select a specific target, the statement doesn't entail that you have to select a specific target.

True, but can you train a dog to salivate just over deer meat as opposed over cow meat? And if it is training we are talking about, how long would it take to train a dog to salivate over deer meat as opposed to any other kind, if it is possible at all? If it is a very time consuming process, well we are back to that it would've been better just to move the pawn, the male claymore, to get rid of the DoD, instead of going through all this trouble of getting the ZACS to hunt him. :) I still stand by my points that ZACS are a very inefficient way to hunt DoDs, that Yagi covered his plot holes, and that a controlled awakened being is still the best way to fight the DoDs.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 12:12

Hmm, so you think that rather than being trained, they have Isley's flesh in them and this is why they crave Isley's meat. Am I right?

It was added at some point of the creation. They mainly have the other awakened being flesh in them, but Isley flesh was used during the creation to install their craving for his meat. *boy that sounds dirty* I don't know exactly the process, but it is at creation and a one time thing IMO.

iLney

2009-02-04, 12:19

There aren't 11 of them. Isley must have killed some :) Next chapter I hope we'll see how.

MisterJB

2009-02-04, 12:28

I do,too.
However, will Miria save Isely? Isely is the main reason why 17people died 7 years ago. You see Deneve's anger when seeing Isely.
Although it's impossilbe, I do hope Miria will come next chapter . Maybe have a talk with Isely and find he is not a bad guy. Then Isely and Miria can form a team?:D

I would love to see that.:D Claymore needs one more pairing

PureYoki

2009-02-04, 12:42

I don't think they are invulnerable; that would be like calling Isley invulnerable because he seems so when going up against Clarice.

This is my point. If AEs are (almost ?) invulnerable against AO Isley who is one of the big bosses, only someone like Priscilla or Raciella can handle them and it's a "maybe". But if they're not that tough, I hope Yagi explains why most (all ?) of them are still alive.

True, but can you train a dog to salivate just over deer meat as opposed over cow meat?

See Pavlov's experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning#Pavlov.27s_experiment). But since you think this is not a matter of training, there's no point in further discussion, we need more data. ;)

I still stand by my points that ZACS are a very in inefficient way to hunt DoDs, that Yagi covered his plot holes, and that a controlled awakened being is still the best way to fight the DoDs.

If AEs are trainable, I think they are the best way to fight DODs, because:

1) They are very very hard to kill, even for Isley.

2) They only attack their target, not their friends.

3) They don't have a weakness like Beth and the org can mass-produce them unlike Alicia.

If they're not trainable, yes, it's inefficient to force them to crave a particular DOD's meat.

SagaraSouske

2009-02-04, 12:55

Sleepy Speculator

2009-02-04, 12:56

Well i had work so i couldn't keep up with the fast moving start of the month stuff, but i'll try and explain stuff about what i said and why.

I have mentioned that i don't believe this supports the Miata was made using Awakened flesh argument for a reason.

There are four very distinct features of the Abyssal eaters, (not visually cos their creepy, but behaviour wise.)

hyper regeneration,
shape shifting,
heightened smell,
heightened reflex to movement.

lack of yoki is engineered along with the sewn mouths/lobotomized heads.

Miata was incapable of hyper regeneration and had to reattach her hands in her fight against Agatha, just like a regular offensive claymore. And despite her massive strength she can't shape shift, also she's not the first to use her hands to fight, Teresa was renowned for kicking at times, and twisting off an awakened Rosemary's arm. And whereas Miata shares a sixth sense and heightened smell, that would make her seem v.similar i think these lie perfectly within the domain of the offensive claymore skill set.

heightened smell... Ophelia and occasionally Clare (Rubul commented that she could not clean the smell off because it was actually her, no defensive claymores have been shown using there nose yet, i think)

sixth sense... Clare had a premonition that Ophelia was bad news, and Miria thought for some reason that Clare was stronger despite her yoki being the weakest. It could be that this is more prominent in offensive claymores to make up for the fact that they aren't shown yet to have sensing types. (in the manga)

Basically Miata is a warrior,and these Abyssal eaters were never warriors but monsters straight off, pretty much as Dietrich implies.

What did spring to mind is Miata's first attack on Clarice and her seemingly crazy statements about who killed her mama and papa, as well as the fact that she aimed for the head, (pulling back and only scratching Clarice's cheek though). Those AE's appear to have the full blonde hair of a claymore, and appear to have caused some damage in their time in the south, they also have no yoki signature and here the org now produces a #1 potential warrior that tracks with smell and aims for the head first...

Claymores have a rule about killing humans, so Miata seeing her family eaten by a bunch of blonde women, may explain why it was Clarice that could get close to her.

Edit: Helen had to reattach her arm in this chapter that technically wasn't regeneration (offensive claymore), and her eye is likely gone... (oh please say an eyepatch will look kick arse...)

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 13:04

This is my point. If AEs are (almost ?) invulnerable against AO Isley who is one of the big bosses, only someone like Priscilla or Raciella can handle them and it's a "maybe". But if they're not that tough, I hope Yagi explains why most (all ?) of them are still alive.

I think the ZACS are specifically evolved to be effective against Isley. I see Riful as having more sucess against those ZACS than Isley, since she has all those sharp ribbons and could flurry them about to surely decapitate them. Isley is more effective at long range fighting with his bolts. Duff's skin might be hard enough to make him good against the ZACS. And the ZACS main weakness is their head, but not the particular weakness you are referring, but moreso their intelligence. Build a bunch of decapitation devices with many blades, set them up as bobby traps, and lead the zacks into that area. That is how I would get rid of them if I were the org.

See Pavlov's experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning#Pavlov.27s_experiment). But since you think this is not a matter of training, there's no point in further discussion, we need more data. ;)

I am well aware of Pavlov's experiment. Besides having to write a painful ten page essay about myself, I did learn about that in the one semester of Psychology I did take as an elective. But I don't think his experiments ever went as far as to test one meat over the other. And I was thinking of that experiment when I posted, btw. ;)

If AEs are trainable, I think they are the best way to fight DODs, because:

1) They are very very hard to kill, even for Isley.

2) They only attack their target, not their friends.

3) They don't have a weakness like Beth and the org can mass-produce them unlike Alicia.

If they're not trainable, yes, it's inefficient to force them to crave a particular DOD's meat.

I don't think they're are easily trainable, if at all, for that precise reason, which is that it creates a plot hole. Why would the org still focus in on Alicia if the ZACS are efficient against the DoD? Why would Rubel's main concern still be Half Awakeneds over ZACS if he saw them as a threat? Also for point number 1, they are hard to kill specifically for Isley. They are most likely easily disposed off by the org, and I think our seven ghosts could defeat the eleven ZACS. Point 2 is false, They go after things that make sudden movements, and the showed no concern for the civilians in the town. They don't really have intelligence. And point 3, they have a bigger weakness than Alicia and that is their lack of intelligence, and inability to form strategy. This weakness was displayed when Agatha damaged Miata while she was attacking Galatea. The ZACS are pretty scary things, but they are far from the perfect weapon, are terribly inefficient to setup for a target, are not invulnerable, and are a one time only weapon. Also is it very efficient, if possible, to train a dog to stop salivating for deer meat and instead salivate for cow meat when you trained him the other way and he has gained an aversion for cow meat?

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 13:07

While I agree that Abyssal Eaters may not be the best weapon against DoDs in battle, they may serve another purpose. If the Org can use them as hounds on leash against all the abyssal level ABs, they can exert control over them and force them to fight DoDs for the Org. If they do not comply, unleash the AE on them. If they have better control over the AEs and abyssals do not have a good counter against them, then the org can just create many ABs and be not afraid of more potential Abyssal level ABs since they have the tools to control them. If the AB turns out weak, it just become raw material for more AEs.

That's some nice analysis. I don't think the org went as far as to worry about twisting the arms of Awakened Beings, especially Abyssals. They may not want to bother, since it can backfire. I wouldn't trust a sinister intelligence like Riful to not come up with a plan while I force her to do what she doesn't want to.

MisterJB

2009-02-04, 13:08

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 13:18

That was some extremely good analysis Sleepy Speculator. In fact, here is something you forgot that further supports what you are saying. Galatea, who formerly described herself as having the most yoki out of all of the warriors, said that Miata had even more than her. So Miata is like all un-yoki-supressing claymore in that Galatea can still sense their auras. This is opposed to her being surprised because she did not sense the ghosts, which would probably be the same case with the ZACS.

Negativedark

2009-02-04, 13:20

There not strippers there Abyss Feeders:frustrated: goddanmed

witch punkass Otaku came up with that!.

That would be me. I had just seen a trailer for a movie called Zombie Strippers right before the chapter came out. And just as a Joke I reffered to them as Zombie Claymore Strippers. But then it stuck. Also we couldn't call them Abyss Feeders at the time, we didn't know that was their name until this chapter came out.

Awakened

2009-02-04, 13:20

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 13:23

What if the Org finds a way to make these AF (Abyssal Feeders) intelligent?

I think that with these weird bodies, they can probrably adapt themselves to the prey they are hunting. After all, they are supossed to the Abyssal's ultimate predator and a predator can evolve to catch his prey.

That all depends. I see them as being a specific Abyssal's ultimate predator, or these ZACS are Isley's ultimate predator. Our theories differ at how the become something predator. In my theory, I think a piece of Isley genetic material is thrown in at some point while the creature is being created, and that it uses the data from that genetic material to evolve into a being that is the perfect predator for Isley. In your theory, they adapt and that is how they become something's predator.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 13:29

That would be me. I had just seen a trailer for a movie called Zombie Strippers right before the chapter came out. And just as a Joke I reffered to them as Zombie Claymore Strippers. But then it stuck. Also we couldn't call them Abyss Feeders at the time, we didn't know that was their name until this chapter came out.

Well you have something to be proud of, I prefer calling them ZACS -- I need the vowel, and don't want to say "Z-C-S", instead say "ZACKS". It has more of a flare than Abyssal Eaters or Feeders IMO, which sound kind of boring. Besides that Zombie Amazon Claymore Strippers seems to perfectly describe these creatures. :) They even removed what little they were wearing in that last fight with Isley. :D And that ZACK licking his uh...

Youtuber

2009-02-04, 13:30

Haven't you also noticed that Raki's armor has the same cool looking designs like Isley's awakened form? And yes he deflected a Yoma's shots with just a mere hand armor. (Which i'm pretty sure it's not even as thick as a torso armor)

So:
Cool design
Black in color
Harder than steel

It's more likely that's what Male Claymore wore in their time or it's just the full version of what Clare wore when she went rogue. Clare doesn't need full armor like Raki did so she probably scrapped half of it.

Sleepy Speculator

2009-02-04, 13:34

Clearing up misunderstandings:

Putting Ab flesh inside a human does not make a ZACS.

Putting Ab flesh inside a human makes a human with yoma instint (they want to eat)

Making a ZACS
To make a ZACS, the Org has to first make a Super Claymore by putting Ab flesh inside a human. The next step is to perform brain surgery on the Super Claymore. After some brain reprogramming, the Super Claymore are stitched up. The end result is a ZACS.

Can i just say i disagree with this, i think Dietrich pretty much said they are in no way warriors but monsters first...

By contrast putting a hybrid in first gave a much more stronger human, but weaker claymore (yoma wise), who has greater mental control (despite what Deneve believes, i don't see Miria running around with a half awakened body).

PureYoki

2009-02-04, 13:37

I think the ZACS are specifically evolved to be effective against Isley.

I doubt it because I can't envision AE forms which are much different from those. If the AEs can counter Isley when he aims at the head, I believe they can also counter Riful or Dauf in the same way. For example they can cut Riful's ribbons with blades. (Helen is not Isley but they easily took care of her.)

I don't think they're are easily trainable, if at all, for that precise reason, which is that it creates a plot hole. Why would the org still focus in on Alicia if the ZACS are efficient against the DoD? Why would Rubel's main concern still be Half Awakeneds over ZACS if he saw them as a threat?

A question: What would happen if the org didn't force AEs to crave anybody's meat? What would their prey be?

Also for point number 1, they are hard to kill specifically for Isley.

I disagree for now, I explained it above.

Point 2 is false, They go after things that make sudden movements, and the showed no concern for the civilians in the town. They don't really have intelligence.

I disagree, I don't think Isley can avoid them by staying still because they're specifically after him.

And point 3, they have a bigger weakness than Alicia and that is their lack of intelligence, and inability to form strategy.

I disagree, Isley is intelligent but he still has problems in avoiding or killing them.

And I also can't envision any booby trap which is far more effective than a direct assault from Isley.

Awakened

2009-02-04, 13:38

Sleepy Speculator

2009-02-04, 13:40

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 13:41

Can i just say i disagree with this, i think Dietrich pretty much said they are in no way warriors but monsters first...

By contrast putting a hybrid in first gave a much more stronger human, but weaker claymore (yoma wise), who has greater mental control (despite what Deneve believes, i don't see Miria running around with a half awakened body).

I'm going to wait, maybe do a little more research, for more information to come out first, before I agree and disagree with it. He made some valid points. And while it sounded like ZACS were mindless creatures when created, they may have been too unstable without some alterations. What he said about them doing something to their brains and stitching up does sound familiar and I'll have to reread and check, but that could be the part where they install the lust for a specific type of meat. What we really need is for one of our Japanese speaking comrades to do a precise translation of that bit of the manga. We've seen badly translated bits before.

Awakened

2009-02-04, 13:41

but you wouldn't get a super claymore first... you'd get a monster running around that looked like a human, if you say something like super claymore, people are gonna start speculating that Miata and Dietrich and god knows who else was made using Ab flesh...

I said Super Claymore to separate them from regular Claymore.

SagaraSouske

2009-02-04, 13:42

I don't think ZACs are specifically created against Isley. I see them being equally effective against Ritful. Eating her ribbons will eventually destroy her and I don't see she will do any better with her ribbons against the ZACs vs Isley's bow and mass arrows/spears.

Their regeneration, shape shifting properties are basically generic AB properties enhanced further. Some modification was done to ensure they emit no Youki. Their physical stats (Str, Spd etc) is reflective of increased physical stats from AB over claymore.

I wouldn't be surprised later on a super ZAC appears with some form of intelligence created using Isley's flesh rather then those 11 fodder AB.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 13:43

but you wouldn't get a super claymore first... you'd get a monster running around that looked like a human, if you say something like super claymore, people are gonna start speculating that Miata and Dietrich and god knows who else was made using Ab flesh...

I mostly agree with you on this trend of thoughts about the ZACS and Miata being different. Also remember Miata has a yoki signature -- the biggest Galatea has ever seen -- and the ZACS do not.

Awakened

2009-02-04, 13:45

I mostly agree with you on this trend of thoughts about the ZACS and Miata being different. Also remember Miata has a yoki signature -- the biggest Galatea has ever seen -- and the ZACS do not.

The ZACS do not have yoki signature because the Org took the ability from them.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 14:03

@PureYoki:

Riful has lots of ribbons that can spin erratically all over the place to cut whatever is near into little pieces. I don't think the ZACS would be very effective against Riful. They can cut some of the ribbons off, but they would shrink in their numbers. That is just my opinion. Isley has one cumbersome gigantic lance, and some bolts for attacks. He is more designed for long range battle IMO.

As for what would happen if they weren't forced to have a craving, well I think Awakened made some good points, and I will have to closely reread the chapter to make sure, but I think without some tampering the org ends up with an uncontrollable beast, and not what they want. I wish Chiba or Cyclone or someone would analysis that section for us. It is very specific and the translation maybe off because of it.

You have a point about Isley not being able to avoid them by staying still, but we were talking about them only attacking the enemies, which I still say is false.

As for Isley intelligence, I never questioned it, though these things have made him lose some of his rationality. Isley lacks resources though. I suggested the org could build an area with hundreds upon hundreds -- muwhahaha -- of multi-bladed-head-chopping-off booby traps, and then lure the zacks into the area. That is called a strategy and is something the ZACS are not able to understand and defend against. This is a major weakness. Also, Isley lacks a proficiency in building booby traps I assume. I don't know why you can't envision the trap in Indiana Jones 3 as being effective against a zombie, versus a lance, which is a slow moving weapon for closeup combat.

Out of curiosity, and I've been going with this notion, but where exactly does Isley being the fastest Awakened around come from? I heard someone once describe him as faster than Rigaldo. Now that I think about it, it is a strange concept to me. He has a lance as a weapon; I don't remember fast movements in his fight with Luciela, and Helen did some major damage to him that he was unable to evade. By logic, Riful seems faster to me than Isley. So where does this notion that Isley is super fast come from?

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 14:06

The ZACS do not have yoki signature because the Org took the ability from them.

I still think we need someone who reads Japanese to look at that text a little closer before we know for sure. There is some detailed stuff in that subsection.

MisterJB

2009-02-04, 14:45

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 14:52

Isley can turn his arms into anything he wants, we have seen a lance, claws, tentacles, shields, a axe and a bow.

Well, Isley is faster than Rigardo and Rigardo was an AB who higly relied on speed, like a male version of Miria.
Riful doesn't seem fast. She seems to be static on the ground unless you mean the speed of her tentacles

Where does it exactly say that Isley is faster than Rigaldo? I probably have missed it, or fogtten about it if it does say so. And Riful is fast. She chased down Renee at full speed, traveled from the west to the south to get to Isley. She left Clare and Co. gaping, wondering how something so massive can disappear so fast at the end of the witche's maw bit. I've seen far more to suggest Riful is fast than I have from Isley. Also I wonder at his logic for using a lance in that kind of combat. Maybe it has to do with his arms being so massive that it wouldn't matter.

Ryuken

2009-02-04, 14:55

I guess we will have to wait and see if the ZACS meet Riful, I wonder what they will make of her, wonder if they would be interested in her as she can mask her yoki.

MisterJB

2009-02-04, 14:59

Where does it exactly say that Isley is faster than Rigaldo? I probably have missed it, or fogtten about it if it does say so. And Riful is fast. She chased down Renee at full speed, traveled from the west to the south to get to Isley. She left Clare and Co. gaping, wondering how something so massive can disappear so fast at the end of the witche's maw bit. I've seen far more to suggest Riful is fast than I have from Isley. Also I wonder at his logic for using a lance in that kind of combat. Maybe it has to do with his arms being so massive that it wouldn't matter.

Rigardo said it himself on the extra cene 3 while Isley fights with Priscilla.
Also, note how Isley's form is half-horse. That should tell us something about his speed

Riful is fast of course, she is an AO after all but she doens't seem to use speed while fighting. She sits around and send tentacles against her oponents.
She probrably can move while doing that but we never saw it and with that kind of body...I somehow doubt it.
It seems to me that she can move faster in human form than in Abyssal Form but that doesn't make much sense:heh:

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-04, 15:00

MisterJB

2009-02-04, 15:05

That's true. We never saw Riful fight all out, did we?

And I think that if Helen fought rigth now against a Rigardo in human form, she would be able to kill him

PureYoki

2009-02-04, 15:15

So where does this notion that Isley is super fast come from?

Rigaldo was one of the fastest ABs around and he said Isley was even faster than him and Isley even outclassed Priscilla in speed. We didn't see much in his fight with Luciela and Helen did some yokiless long-range damage to Isley's human form but I agree that he should be able to evade them. However IMO Riful in her human form would not do better than Isley against Helen.

I don't remember the trap in Indiana Jones 3, I watched it 20 years ago in a movie theater. I don't think it's feasible to set traps on hundreds of acres of land and even then I'm not sure the multi-blade traps will work, it seems they can react to and counter danger real fast. Isley can also shapeshift his arm to a multi-bladed weapon if you think it'll work, they can shapeshift their whole body to any form and counter danger from any direction.

Sci-Fi

2009-02-04, 15:37

As for Deneve,I think partly awaken is not for everyone.Clare is main character:p. But Deneve's not.:pIt's just a joke. Then how about Miria?She lived through many things and she's stronger than Clare. What's more, partly awaken is a very dangerous thing. Jean sacrificed her life to make Clare back to human. If Deneve partly awaken,who will save her?Then I do think when it comes to partly awaken again, that'll be the end of the story.As someone said,this story is to kill the beloved claymores.I really hope they can get away from partly awaken.That can save lives,anyway.

Half awakening is just a step. It depends on the strength of the Claymore's human will to come back. Jean and Clare needed help to return to Claymore form, but it shows that the body or body parts could fully awaken but the mind is still human. The turtle AB in the north was fooled into believing Deneve and Clare had went past their limit and awakened. It seems the limit changes each time a Claymore half awakens...only a matter of time until one of the ghosts will be able to fully awaken their body, control it with their human side, and return to normal. It will be an ability that 'maybe' the DoD's have and one the Org has been searching to develop.

Arkham

2009-02-04, 15:42

Hi,everybody!I'm new on the forum,I like claymore very much,and I see you have very interesting topics and theories.I'll try to keep up with you peeplz!

Vinak

2009-02-04, 15:56

http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000045/00000049/21.jpg
http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000045/00000049/22.jpg

http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000045/000031821/21.jpg

posted for educational purposes only :p

Awakened

2009-02-04, 16:09

BTW, I really question the Isley Speed > Rigaldo Speed concept that has been put up here. If Isley is so fast, then why did Helen do all that damage to him? Somehow I have trouble seeing her doing as well against Rigaldo. I haven't seen on iota of evidence that hints at Isley being blinding fast. Does the manga really state that Isley is faster than Rigaldo?

Edit: Ah well see MisterJB's reply that came as I posted this. I'll have to check the extra chapter out, but from what we've seen from Isley he doesn't look fast. As for Riful, we've only ever seen her play with her opponents.

I'm on your side on this one. I know Rinaldo said Isley was faster, but we never see Isley use speed when he fight. Rinaldo might have been talking about Isley's arrows.

We will know soon.

Hi,everybody!I'm new on the forum,I like claymore very much,and I see you have very interesting topics and theories.I'll try to keep up with you peeplz!

Welcome

iLney

2009-02-04, 16:40

BTW, I really question the Isley Speed > Rigaldo Speed concept that has been put up here. If Isley is so fast, then why did Helen do all that damage to him? Somehow I have trouble seeing her doing as well against Rigaldo. I haven't seen on iota of evidence that hints at Isley being blinding fast. Does the manga really state that Isley is faster than Rigaldo?

Why Helen can do all that damage? What damage you're talking about? She did no damage to him. Period.

Isley is the kind who fights all out with any opponent. But in this chapter, he said "Tch, I overdid it?" That meant he didn't want to fight seriously, or shall I say he doesn't know how to fight not using 100% of his strength. As a result, the more Helen hits him, the more he gets annoyed, why? He doesn't want to use more than enough power to defeat Helen but he doesn't know how much is enough. Thus, he just scales it up bit by bit until Helen cannot keep up anymore, which was what Helen observed.

Trust me in this one, Yagi is very consistent in characterization :)

germanturkey

2009-02-04, 17:04

kk. no more ZACS unless we get clarification on what it means. AE currently makes the most sense.

Sci-Fi

2009-02-04, 17:05

Rigaldo might have been talking about Isley in his awakened form. Helen used the chaos/dust/debris to her advantage but Isley is too strong overall for her to win the fight. The ZCS on the other hand are giving Isley all he can handle and he needs to find a way to escape. Would guess he's been on the run for quite some time now and fought the ZCS before.

Wonder why he just doesn't lure the ZCS to the east, near the Org's headquarters and then head north or get on a ship. The Org would be forced to stop the ZCS from destroying everything in their path and that would buy Isley time, plus we don't know what the sensing range of the ZCS is.

irvinethearcher

2009-02-04, 17:16

Nope no proof on speed, just speculation founded upon a little logic. As for the ZACS and Isley, wasn't it said that all the problems in the south started around seven years ago? I guess I'll have to go back and read, later, to make sure. I don't have enough time to do so right now.

Hm, do you think that the abyssal eaters are fighting him for seven years now and during every fight a whole town disapears?
I had the impression that isley was totally suprised by their regeneration ability and saw them the first time. It could be his downfall not directly targetting their heads and ignoring them when they lied down.

Awakened

2009-02-04, 17:28

kk. no more ZACS unless we get clarification on what it means. AE currently makes the most sense.

Zombie Amazon Claymore Strippers

why better than AE

Fenrir_valindri

2009-02-04, 17:35

I think their title "Abyssal Eaters" is rather catchy myself.

The ZACS is funny, but really shouldn't be what we officially refer to them as.

------

As for Isley's speed, someone posted a few pics showing the incredible speed of both Isley and Riful. We haven't seen them using that speed that often because we rarely see them fight opponents outside their power level.

In his fight against Helen it looked like Isley was purposefully trying to hold back as to not attract attention, and he was also in his human form.

Rigaldo (the king of speed himself) proclaimed that Isley was even faster then he was, so I'm not going to doubt his word on the matter.

ThoHell

2009-02-04, 17:53

Been wondering and waiting for the next chapter, and to my surprise it was already out. Was interesting. Shocking and also not very shocking at the same time, if that makes any sense...

Arkham

2009-02-04, 20:11

While fighting Helen And Deneve Isley was in his human form,but the minut the Abyssal Eaters showup he changes into his true form.He knows who they are!?

Wargumm1i

2009-02-04, 20:16

Bah when will there be more Raki action.

Cyclone

2009-02-04, 20:35

There not strippers there Abyss Feeders:frustrated: goddanmed

witch punkass Otaku came up with that!.

Me! Me!

Wow - you even guessed the otaku part. To quote de Niro: "you....you.......you're good....you're good"

Gansta's right though - it flows off the tongue better with the 'A'

---
edit: to clarify, Negativedark did indeed coin the term, I just made the acronym

Cyclone

2009-02-04, 21:14

I wish Chiba or Cyclone or someone would analysis that section for us. It is very specific and the translation maybe off because of it.

I'll have a closer look.

Freya

2009-02-04, 21:44

Priscilla vs Abyss Feeders plz.

Vinak

2009-02-04, 22:31

think I mentioned "zombie strippers" in one of my posts which may or may not have contributed to the "zacs" acronym. so I apologize just in case :p

SuperiorX

2009-02-04, 23:50

hmm now im wandering what you would get if you put both Yoma and an AB flesh to create a Claymore......

Awakened

2009-02-05, 00:56

hmm now im wandering what you would get if you put both Yoma and an AB flesh to create a Claymore......

you would get a ZACCS:D

Cyclone

2009-02-05, 01:20

Ok, did my ow translation of some of the interesting bits (relating to the ZACS).
skipped a few of the obvious/unimportant parts...
Picked it up with Dietrich...

slowly move away
they react to sudden movements

what the heck are they?
I don't sense any youki. It's as if...

...

already finished off 3 of them, huh?

impossible
are they imortal?

vanish

Let's get out of here
This city is done for

with that, do you think he'll be able to finish them off?
no... it's probably hopeless

Their weakness, like other youma and awakened beings, is their heads...
but speaking conversely, but if they protect that, by their astounding speed, and because they possess regenerating powers,
no matter what situation they get into, they can move enough to protect at least their heads.

as I thought, those were awakened being?

they were produced by the Organization
a weapon against the dwellers of the deep

huh?

We're downwind
They wont try to find us here

How are your wounds? Helen

I've reattached the arm, but I'm having trouble with/don't know how to handle the eye.
perhaps I wont be able to do it

Now that it's come to this,
Don't tell us that this has nothign to do with us,
We want you to tell us what kind of things those are

Seven years ago during the war of the north, as the period of one of the Organization's research completed, they started
work on the next experiment.
The next research that went and used the corpses of 11 awakened beings that they gathered

Not with that of a youma, but with flesh and blood of an awakened beings, they created warriors
Impossible
To do something like that

Yes. They couldn't be called warriors for long. (translation note: not sure about this)
Not a human that ressembled a monster, they began making a monster with human shape

In actuallity they didn't have any trace of a human mind [literally: a single particle of a human kokoro(mind/spirit/heart)]
All that was left was nothing but a strong craving for blood and flesh
And for that the Organization utilized the research completed seven years earlier.

All sense of self (ego) was thoroughly removed from them and they were only allowed to have only a single feed as a object of desire
With their eyes destroyed and mouths sewn, they intently pursue the only absolute lifeform that can provide feed.

Because they were remodeled not to emit youki, they cannot read youki
Fixed on a smell, they ended up wandering into the southern lands
for that so called lone remembered feed

you don't mean...

yes

Someone from the organization, in the southern lands, layed hands on
a piece of Isley's flesh/meat

you beasts

11 akuma(devils) the organization brought forth
Abyssal Eaters is what the Organization named them

Generally, the translation in the scanlation seems to be correct.

germanturkey

2009-02-05, 01:24

haha! i was right with the Abyssal eaters!! :p

thanks for the translation cyclone. its pretty much what i got from it in the first place.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-05, 01:46

However IMO Riful in her human form would not do better than Isley against Helen.

Riful is still Ribonized -- heh -- in her human form, as demonstrated when Clare finally got her hit on Riful in. Now that makes me wonder if she has a human form or if it is just an illusion. I guess some things carry over since Isley is still able to access his bow to shoot bolts in human form.

@Vinak: Thanks for your post. :D It does indeed show Isley being speedy. I've only read that Extra Episode one time, so my memory was a bit fuzzy on it. I really don't like side stories in fiction, so I wasn't too big a fan of the extra chapters.

I'm on your side on this one. I know Rinaldo said Isley was faster, but we never see Isley use speed when he fight. Rinaldo might have been talking about Isley's arrows.

We will know soon.

Well Vinak showed some irrefutable evidence in the Priscilla fight. But now that raises some new questions. :D I mean I know horses are fast, but I'm not a real expert on them, but how maneuverable are they? I know they can go straigh pretty fast, but the body type doesn't look like it would do well turning suddenly in a ninety degree angle. It would seem to me that while Isley is fast going straight, that he could be out maneuvered if he can't do sharp turns, somewhat like Clare vs. Rigaldo but less severe. Also the lance was a bad choice of weapon against the ZACS, I really don't understand why he used it. It is a charging weapon, but it is very slow when it comes to maneuvering. Some kind of sword would've been better.

Why Helen can do all that damage? What damage you're talking about? She did no damage to him. Period.

Fine then. ;) In that case, Isley did no damage to the ZACS. Period.

Isley is the kind who fights all out with any opponent. But in this chapter, he said "Tch, I overdid it?" That meant he didn't want to fight seriously, or shall I say he doesn't know how to fight not using 100% of his strength.

Yeah right. His facial expression while fighting Helen told a different story. I think you take that statement out of context.

Trust me in this one, Yagi is very consistent in characterization :)

I think Yagi is consistent with the facial expression and body language. Isley Regenerated, Yes, but Helen did hold her own against Isley.

This raises an interesting qustion though: Isley talks as if he over did it as in using too much yoki, but the ZACS don't sense yoki. Maybe he perspired, or there is a smell that goes with going all out? I think the over did it statement is linked to attracting the ZACS somehow.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-05, 02:12

Their weakness, like other youma and awakened beings, is their heads...
but speaking conversely, but if they protect that, by their astounding speed, and because they possess regenerating powers,
no matter what situation they get into, they can move enough to protect at least their heads.

This means that I speculated correctly that the ZACS are fast; I think probably faster than Isley. To me it made sense that if a Claymore is faster than the yoma used to create it, then the same logic might apply to ZACS as related to Awakened Beings. Isley probably has to wear them down a bit before he can flee, because otherwise he'll have those ZACS chipping away at him as he flees. For that to make sense, maybe they have that spectacular regenerative ability, but Isley still has greater stamina/endurance than them.

In actuallity they didn't have any trace of a human mind [literally: a single particle of a human kokoro(mind/spirit/heart)]
All that was left was nothing but a strong craving for blood and flesh

This seems to differentiate Miata from those Creatures, in that she does have a human heart/spirit. It also sounded that the ZACS seem to lose their humanity pretty quickly naturally before the org does anything, and naturally crave flesh and blood like an Awakened being.

And for that the Organization utilized the research completed seven years earlier.
All sense of self (ego) was thoroughly removed from them and they were only allowed to have only a single feed as a object of desire
With their eyes destroyed and mouths sewn, they intently pursue the only absolute lifeform that can provide feed.

This is very important clarification for me. In the scanlation text I was wondering what experiment from seven years earlier they were talking about. It was either Alicia or Miata, if she was a babe seven years ago. Your translation seems to clearly point that the experiment that they are talking about is Alicia. Also, you clarify that these particular ZACS can only eat Isley, so that once Isley is gone they can't be used against Riful. The org would probably just let the ZACS starve to death then. Boy I am imagining the ZACS just sitting in the ruins of a city after they ate Isley years ago, wailing from hunger. :D That's great stuff.

Generally, the translation in the scanlation seems to be correct.

Yes, but your translation filled in the missing details. Thanks.

dunames

2009-02-05, 02:24

AEs are trainable, I think they are the best way to fight DODs, because:

1) They are very very hard to kill, even for Isley.

2) They only attack their target, not their friends.

3) They don't have a weakness like Beth and the org can mass-produce them unlike Alicia.

If they're not trainable, yes, it's inefficient to force them to crave a particular DOD's meat.

i will have to dissagree with ya and go with gangsta on this one. they will be trash against DoD. after implantation of the AB fresh, the subject lost all trace of humanity and have a terrribble craving for meat and blood. chances are, it dont matter whether the fresh is from ABs, Claymore, Yoma or Human or DoD. Dietrich did said that their personality and everything else was also stripped away leaving only their craving for blood and meat left and then they were trained to go after Easley's meat using the limb he lost in the fight against Luci. they have very little intellegent and only reacting to sudden movement for self defense. like dog they aim striaght for their assign target and only fight back as defense by reacting to sudden movement. now in the case of Easley, if he does nothing, they will just eat him alive. if Easley fights back, they will defend themself by reacting to his movement. they lack the int to form plan and stuff. since they react to sudden movement and action, this probably explain why they move slow and zombie like so they dont start fighting each other by reacting to eachothers sudden movement. in their current condition, although effective against Easley, they probably would be useless against Rifus. Keep in mind that they ahve a tribble craving for blood and meat. to top it off, their personality was strip away leavign them with their craving for blood and meat and reacting to sudden movement for defense. Easley is a solid life form. Rifus on the other hand is made of thousand of ribbon so she can cut a few ribbon, scatter them all over the place and fight them 1v1. the AE are very resilent but i dotn they they are that powerful since all 11 of them cant every take down Easley after all this time they went after him. Easley is also a single target atk while Rifus is capable of AOE attack. dodging 1 or 2 atks from a sigle direct might be possible but i dotn know if the AE are capable of dodging 20+ atk from all direction which rifus have show she capable of doing.

Agaisnt DoD, keep in mind that the DoD are not a army of 1 like Easley. they are a army of thousands maybe even millions. teh primary instict of the AE is to feed on "meat and blood." its like an addiction and they go crazy without feeding. it will be near imposslbe to get fresh from every person from the DoD country to set them all as target. what the ORG can do is train the AE to go after a more general trait but then again, the the people in charge for for the DoD are from the same species as the ORG since Ruble and the ORG are pretty much teh same species and they are just fighting each other like how we pity human repeating tryign to genocide eachother to gain control of eachother lands, the AE will just wipe out the ORG along with the DoD if a more general trait are use as target.

now if the ORG science is advance far enough, what they can do is find out whats inside the ABs that turn the human into meat and blood craving self super regenerating being and extract those parts and creat virus with it and use it to infect the DoDs with it and let them fight each other. now on teh subject of zombies, the RE5 demo is looking great!

Vinak

2009-02-05, 02:57

I am going to guess and say Miata is just a regular Claymore warrior. though she has obvious mental issues.

This chapter is implying that the organization has the ability to control both a Claymore's perception and even their mindset.

Miata was probably specially created to kill off Claymore warriors with sealed Youki and possibly to kill the Zacs as well. The Organization purposely made her mentally unstable in order to control her. Unfortunately for the organization, their special weapon fell into enemy hands. (serves them right)

If this is true, then it could also imply that their mental conditioning is not permanent as Miata is showing signs of recovery. This could foreshadow Priscilla's future recovery, the zacs gaining self awareness, while Alicia and Beth may become unstable.

Clarice on the other hand I am going to say was made using another Claymore. I think the organization repeated the Clare experiment with a lower ranked Claymore that recently died just to confirm whether or not such an experiment was truly a failure. This could explain why Miata thinks Clarice is her mother, and why her hair color did not fade completely.

I feel Clare and possibly Clarice will be the only Warriors capable of fully awakening without being held on a leash. (Soul link) While the other partial awakened warriors will still be unable to accomplish a full awakening without loosing their humanity. Though using a soul link remains a possibility.

Gangsta Spanksta

2009-02-05, 03:04

@Vinak:

Some nice analysis and speculation based on logic.

chibamonster

2009-02-05, 04:12

@Vinak: I approve :D. I have to spread more rep before I can give you more.

The Abyssal Feeders and Alicia and Beth really have some problems fitting into this claymore world as they are so different from other characters. Every other monster in the series has a personality. Even a likable one at that in some cases. But these characters have been worked over by the organization to be something else. I do not think Alicia and Beth will always be that way as Claymore really is so much about humanity. But is there hope for these 11 lost girls? This is a rather terrifying development as they have had all that is human carved out of them. They are the antithesis of the nobility that our Claymore heroes show.

Also I see these things tying into whatever Raciella becomes, along with Alicia/Beth, and eventually Clare/Teresa. What happens when you mix a Claymore and an AB? Clare is partially awakened and an experiment to boot. I agree that we will someday see her full awakened form. We have to after being teased with the arms and legs :D.

PureYoki

2009-02-05, 06:12

Rifus on the other hand is made of thousand of ribbon so she can cut a few ribbon, scatter them all over the place and fight them 1v1.

I don't understand what you mean but I think that although it'll take longer to eat Riful (because of her shape), Riful can't do much more damage than Isley. In fact Isley, because of his arms' shapeshifting abilities, can attack the AEs with almost any medieval weapon you can imagine and if even this is not enough, I don't think Riful can easily dispatch them.

the AE will just wipe out the ORG along with the DoD if a more general trait are use as target.

Umm, no. If possible, we'll train AEs to crave DOD and only DOD flesh.

Aquillion

2009-02-05, 06:23

I don't understand what you mean but I think that although it'll take longer to eat Riful (because of her shape), Riful can't do much more damage than Isley. In fact Isley, because of his arms' shapeshifting abilities, can attack the AEs with almost any medieval weapon you can imagine and if even this is not enough, I don't think Riful can easily dispatch them.Before that fight could happen, Riful would have to lose part of her body (unless they're trained to go after her, she could just run away.)

But I anyway...

I doubt the purpose of these creatures is really just to kill Isley. Think about it -- these things are close to what the Org really wants. Mass-producible superweapons (strong enough, they hope, to beat an Abyssal, and therefore strong enough to kill the dragon-creature's champions) that only attack what they were trained to attack, easy to control and use. You have to get a part of the creature you want them to kill, first, but that's not so hard.

PureYoki

2009-02-05, 06:40

no matter what situation they get into, they can move enough to protect at least their heads.

Hmm, so the chapter confirms their heads are indestructible.

We're downwind
They wont try to find us here

I wonder why Dietrich thinks AEs will follow them.

All that was left was nothing but a strong craving for blood and flesh
...
and they were only allowed to have only a single feed as a object of desire

Hmm, I think that they eat any kind of meat but the org purposely narrowed down their diet to one specific target. I believe the org can similarly define a family of creatures (like DODs) as a target.

zato_1one

2009-02-05, 07:03

If I were like these ZCs and I get into a dangerous situation. Out of pure survival instinct, I can just transform my body and cut off my own head. I will morph the blade and use it to run away to a safe place. :eyespin:

SuperiorX

2009-02-05, 07:34

:confused::confused::confused::confused:ok so i just spent 15 minutes of my life writing a reply only for it to be wiped clean by telling that i was not logged in....

SuperiorX

2009-02-05, 07:47

Hmm, so the chapter confirms their heads are indestructible.

I wonder why Dietrich thinks AEs will follow them.

Hmm, I think that they eat any kind of meat but the org purposely narrowed down their diet to one specific target. I believe the org can similarly define a family of creatures (like DODs) as a target.

I would think that an AE diet would be the following asuming it was not altered in way form or fashion:

humans with greatest preference, Claymores no2 due to being part human, ABs take spot no3 no particular reason other then that that they may still have some smell/taste of human and last two being DODs if any are around and in worst case scenario wild animals. Not to sure if these babes would try any vegetables.:D

Other thing that i wanted to say is that both AEs and Easley are responsible for wiping half of the south out: Easley as he has no restraint and we see full well that his attacks are causing destruction and AEs as people that see a 30 metre tall pny and 11 monsters would be making all kinds of sudden movements that would result in death even if AEs are focused on Easley.

The other thing is WTF happened to all the people in the town as it was completly full when Helen+Deneve arrived 2 or so chapters ago.

I real think that AE name term is badly suited for them as in their unaltered/unmodified form they would be referred as they were upon their Introduction as DEMON(s) as they would indescremanatly kill and eat any thing whether it it be human,claymore or an ABs the only thing what kind of sinister intelliginge would they have since the AB part seems to override human mind/heart/soul shortly after creation.