Clannad ~After Story~ - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Clannad ~After Story~ , Episode 17.

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[envyitachi89]

The episode was great, from what I can tell from the RAW, it seems like Tomoya is taking care of Ushio while Sanae is gone. Also, it feels like that Tomoya and Ushio do not have a understanding of each other. Seems like Ushio and Tomoya are going to a trip somewhere in the preview for the next episode.

Ushio's voice is so cute!

[Rasuberi]

This episode was... a lot better than I was expecting.

... For I was expecting a boring emofest via Tomoya. Not that he doesn't deserve one, obviously, but I'm very thankful CLANNAD skips 5 years. I don't think I could have beared seeing a funeral scene or anything like that either...

Nonetheless it's disheartening to see Ushio and Tomoya's (nonexistant) relationship... even though I knew it was going to be like this. Actually, it was better than I thought it would be as well. I was afraid Tomoya would be a utter jerk to Ushio, but he just seems to have gone into a permanent daze after Nagisa left. Tomoya doesn't know how to act like a father, and poor Ushio feels uncomfortable around him. It's hard not too since he's uncomfortable as well and often looks like he's glaring at her. Ushio is utterly adorable though... I'm far more impatient than usual for next weeks episode, and the rest of them as well!

[SidVicious]

Shio-chan is cute like her mom. :)

[Ithekro]

After what happened last week in relation to the ED, this week was surprisingly clever. Nice segue.

Also fairly clever use of lighting and color for emotional effects. But they've been doing that the entire series.

[Mecha_Trueno]

This episode was... a lot better than I was expecting.

... For I was expecting a boring emofest via Tomoya.

I was expecting a whole episode of that as well, but hey, KyoAni's got some brains.


After what happened last week in relation to the ED, this week was surprisingly cleverlol until the end of this episode, I kept thinking it was Nagisa skipping:heh: (can be confused with their summer uniform:heh:)
Does anyone find the OP depressing now? It's lke "ah man, don't keep reminding us of Nagisa:upset:"

I was a little WTF @ Ushio's voice, sounds like a boy lol, but then got used to it.
Thought Sanae's phone spamming was funny:D. I gotta say, Tomoya is lucky to have such great parents in law. Thanks to that, he can actually have some 'recovery time', however many years that might take... its been five already.
Through the whole second half of the episode, I was SO cringing and thinking "omg, is he gonna snap? is he gonna lose it? please don't become a Ushio beater," especially with his glaring look. And it looks like he's still on this tight rope next episode.
So... he ditched her entrance ceremony...does this mean Ushio is already the under the guidence of the tsundere teacher?:D Or is this not till another school year?

[bladeofdarkness]

while the ep was really nice
i cant help but feel a great sense of sadness watching the two interact
that tomoya is not himself is obvius (there is something about him that just seems dead inside)
but his interaction with ushio just leaves me with a general sense of him not wanting ushio around which is really making me sad (even more so given how cute ushio is and how she reminds me of her mother)
i just get a sort of sense that tomoya considers ushio as the reason why nagisa is gone (i'm still not over that one)
just hearing tomoya saying in the opening how his relationship with nagisa (and it leading to ushio being born) was a mistake
it just made me feel like crying :upset:

im also amazed at just how well they did this ep
half the episode involves a man and a 5 year old girl sitting around the house doing practiclly nothing of importence
communicating at a very low level (and with practiclly no humor at all)
and at one point going to the store to buy food
and i couldnt take my eyes off the screen for a second
i dont ever think i have seen something so simple and meaningless being presented in such a compelling way before
most slice of life shows (which are based around that kind of premise) cant pull it off half as well (even when relaying on humor)
its just really really good

[Mecha_Trueno]

Shio-chan is cute like her mom. :)But she broke the ahoge blood line:(... dammit, all coz of stupid old Tomoya's non-ahoge blood got mixed in there:mad:

[Ithekro]

Kept feeling like he was going to treat her like he treated Fuko...

[Tempester]

But she broke the ahoge blood line:(... dammit, all coz of stupid old Tomoya's non-ahoge blood got mixed in there:mad:

I'm happy she doesn't have any ahoge. She needs to have a physical difference from her mom and that is the flat hair. Or else she'd become a Nagisa clone.

Also, anyone noticed how Ushio's eyes are farther apart than any other characters? :twitch: I love how well she was animated, but that just struck me as weird.

[Ithekro]

One's eyes are full sized at birth, yet one's head gets bigger. The spacing is to make her eyes seem larger I guess...or her head smaller.

[MeoTwister5]

Does Ushio have the same voice actor as in the game? Because for some reason, though I haven't seen the episode yet, I can't imagine Ushio sounding like anyone else.

[panzerfan]

yes. Ushio's voiced by the same VA.

[Proto]

I dare everyone not to skip over the opening :p

Anyway, KyoAni managed to wonderfully adapt one of the difficult part of the original media. I'll call it the angst arc. Heck, this time around I even liked it :p (special mention deserves the moment Ushio entered the stage and the world brighted up again). Once that's done, let's move on with the rest of the story.

Only nitpick of the episode: Ok, I'll accept that kids head to body ratio tends to be a little bigger than that of adults, but KyoAni exaggerated this a little :p

[Myssa Rei]

*insert incoherent cursing for being stuck at work and not being to watch the raw*

[panzerfan]

It's odd for me to watch this episode even well knowing of what this entails. I find it painful to watch Tomoya, and my respect for Sanae has only grown.

The audience do get a little bit of a cooling off, but the feel of the episode is clouded by what transpired last time. The absence of Nagisa is painfully evident in every corner and perhaps rightly so. Maybe one should and never be comfortable without Nagisa being present I suppose.

Ushio now will take center stage. It is clear that the story now falls on Tomoya and his daughter as the estranged duo start to find what each other represent in their lives.

The cinematography for this episode is fairly well done. Tomoya is absolutely awkward and completely detached from everything while Ushio is apprehensive and... reserved. The weariness of Tomoya contrasts with the liveliness of everyone else around him in my opinion. Somehow, one can really feel how that Ushio has not been given much time to savor childhood while Tomoya has lost more than 5 years in his growth. It looks like Tomoya needs to be in the care of the Furukawa and Ushio at his current state.

[mandarb916]

Gave it a 7...

The segue into the ending was neat, but it was a little....i can't quite put my finger on it...I can't say how I would improve it, but I wasn't really impressed with the episode. I guess it's partially because the next few episodes should have more importance than this one in the grand scheme of things...this just felt like a slightly emotional filler for lack of a better description...

[Proto]

this just felt like a slightly emotional filler for lack of a better description...

Transitional?

[Ithekro]

Is there any part of this series that could count as "filler"?

EDIT: Off tone note: Sanae is still hot as a 45 year old grandma. One tries to imagine Nagisa at that age.

[MeoTwister5]

Just saw the raw. I'm almost amazed just how well the studio managed to contrast father and daughter, in both animation and attitude.

And based on the preview... well I'll reserve those comments when the subs come out.

[germanturkey]

i was expecting an emo fest. its nice to know they didn't do that.. i was getting ready to rip into it too.

[cjl]

Just looking at the screens, but is that Sayuri's Anteater from Kanon?

[Mecha_Trueno]

Kept feeling like he was going to treat her like he treated Fuko...That would've actually been a good father and daughter relationship... somewhat.


Only nitpick of the episode: Ok, I'll accept that kids head to body ratio tends to be a little bigger than that of adults, but KyoAni exaggerated this a little :pThen what scale of WTF would you put Lucky Star on?


EDIT: Off tone note: Sanae is still hot as a 45 year oldYES! she's STILL hot!:naughty: I guess all the running Akki provides pays off:D

[Tempester]

Is there any part of this series that could count as "filler"?

Just about.
The Misae arc didn't really do anything other than flesh out 2 background characters with nothing to do with the main plot.

The summer omake episode at the end of the first season isn't a required episode to watch, even if it brings Tomoya and Nagisa closer. I guess it could count as filler.

Kotomi is pretty much a filler character. Her arc doesn't contribute anything to the main story. Sure, her parents were searching for "another world" but it isn't necessary to go through her arc to understand that other world. Her character, being completely stand-alone and unrelated to others in the original game, suffers from bad writing. This is because she could have gone to America by the end of her arc and exited the story as a fully fleshed character but the writers decided to keep her around and she ended up doing practically nothing and not developing at all. Basically a harem filler to make Tomoya and Youhei look cooler. Then, at the end of the School Life chapter of Clannad, she finally took off to America like she was supposed to do about 17 episodes earlier.

[Leo_Otaku]

Just looking at the screens, but is that Sayuri's Anteater from Kanon?

LOL I noticed it too as soon as I saw him ^-^

Found it really awesome ^-^ One thing Ushio is taller than I imagined LOL
Not really much to say. Really well done with their interaction like everyone has mentioned. I loved the angles and cute habits animated. Other than I can't wait for 18.

His outburst reminds me of man on shinkansen >.> ....^-^"

Filler could be the baseball game but it helped not to go directly into the story so fast.

[Sheba]

Only nitpick of the episode: Ok, I'll accept that kids head to body ratio tends to be a little bigger than that of adults, but KyoAni exaggerated this a little :p

What about Tomoya's stubby that magically disappeared half-way through his walk with Sanae? Of course, I should not expect him to keep it all the way, especially when he is about to visit Ushio.

[SnackPacs]

Bleh...

I can just tell from facial expression and tone, Tomoya's so ungodly distant and unfamiliar towards Ushio and... While I understand it all, it disgusts me to. His behavior is so uncalled for.

Is this just a drastic realization between japanese and american behavior? I mean, if I had a kid and lost my wife in the process, I like to hope/I have the belief I would not go into such depression and try to realize my significant other lived on through the child.

It's really heartbreaking that Tomoya doesn't seem to have that click.

[cbatty]

AQS subs are out...

http://a.scarywater.net/aquastar/CLANNAD_AFTER%20STORY_17_PAS_%5BAQS%5D%5BSprocket% 5D%5BTWH%5D%5BB2EFD61C%5D.avi.torrent

[SnackPacs]

...Crap.

If only they'd come out half an hour sooner...

[sikvod00]

I'm grateful that I've never gone through anything as painful as what Tomoya has experienced. As such, I can't really get too angry over his behavior, even though he is unintentionally hurting another loved one.

As for there being no "boring, emo fest", well, this isn't real life, so I agree that it gets really frustrating\annoying from an audience's perspective. I'm assuming emo isn't something you guys use freely in the real world when hardship hits others and they don't endure it gracefully. That would be uncool.:cool:

[panzerfan]

Well, there is no anonymity as a shroud for people in real life, so people would tend to actually think before they say, at least more than on the Internet. (that topic we can go on and on...)

I find it interesting how that very minor characters are not totally dropped off in Clannad at all. Ms. Isogai is still active as is Tomoya's boss. For some reason, I actually don't find the backdrop itself artificial despite the inherant fantasy elements within their world.

[Ithekro]

The much older people actaully look a little older as well. Ms. Isogai's greying a bit more than that last time I remember seeing her (when Mr. Lizard somehow got down Sanae's back...so roughly six years for her)

[SnackPacs]

I'm grateful that I've never gone through anything as painful as what Tomoya has experienced. As such, I can't really get too angry over his behavior, even though he is unintentionally hurting another loved one.

It's still hard not to get angry over it, all I can help but think is he's just...

It's just disgusting. It breaks my heart to see Ushio so uncared for. When she fell, it really tugged at my heartstrings... I just wished somehow I could give her a hug. ;-;

To see no emotional attachment between the two, it's ungodly painful. Being raised with a parent who gave me a lot of attention... It's really uncomfortable.

Blah... I'm gonna need to watch something else cheerful at this rate after I finish watching the sub.. ;-;

[OmegaPhlare]

It hurts to see them like this. I realize that Tomoya is so incredibly depressed, but throughout the episode, I can't help but facepalm myself and wonder "really?! there is no love here?". At many points I'm in disbelief. Tomoya's eyes have changed.

But because of all of that, this was a really awesome episode. It's hard to give this episode a high rating when the previous episode was so incredible, and after watching this episode I feel a little depressed myself, but anyways I gave it a 9 because it was so very interesting to me.

By the way, it tears at my heart to think if Nagisa might be watching over her family right now.

[SnackPacs]

I like to think though that it's just how she is when Tomoya's around.

I imagine Sanae and Akio give her all the love they can. :)

Makes it a little less painful.

[sikvod00]

LOL. I haven't even seen the episode yet--the spoilers aren't that bad--so maybe my opinion will change when I see how adorable Ushio is...(never seen her face before).;).
I will say this: if he thought she was to blame for Nagisa's death and acted vindictive because of it, then he wouldn't have any pity from me. That would be too childish and
irrational. This issue really isn't one where you can just pick one side; both parties are hurt and deserve sympathy.

Oh, and the parallels between Tomoya's behavior and his father's are just scary. He's got to be out of jail by now...right?

[Sheba]

You need to pause a bit. Stop thinking of how YOU should have acted in his situation, but how it will weight in his development as a character and father, and also on Ushio's development. I mean, there would not be any tension or drama if Tomoya got over it if he turned into a super widowed father (*). As a man, Tomoya is an emotional wreck (I may be exagerrating), his other half is now gone and he have yet to put the pieces back together. (For example, I think he still need to resolve his issues with his father.)

Tomoya have not realized that Ushio is not the end of his days with Nagisa, but a continuation. It is sort of parallel with Nagisa and her parents. She have seen herself as the end of her parents' dreams and it took Akio's passionate speech to convince Nagisa of the contrary. In the case of Ushio, even with Nagisa gone, she carries on her small shoulders the hopes of the Furukawa and Okazaki families. It will take a very cruel trick by fate to make Tomoya realize it.




(*) I am not asking for him to mop around and bring the angst to annoying levels like Shinji Ikari did in the Eva series.

[Snooker]

I skipped OP because it 's too sad to watch Nagisa.

[cbatty]

Some thoughts while watching Ep 17.....



The depression Tomoya showed pre op reminded me much of his father. It hurt greatly to se him in this state.

The op has new meaning for me now, especially the lyrics.

Tomoya is really lucky to have Sanae to be looking out for him and pushing him otherwise he may deepen into depression. Tomoya's loss reminds me of Takayuki in Kiminozo - the guilt that Tomoya feels, while different is also similar.

I loved the cat and mouse game Ushio played with Tomoya. She really is her mothers' daughter. She is a much smaller version of Nagisa.

Sanae is rather devious ;) what a diabolical plan to bring father and daughter together for the first time - that is not just a short visit.

And now we know who it is at the start of the ending theme.

Next week's preview worries me - Tomoya lashing out was upsetting - poor Ushio.

[panzerfan]

@cbatty: Tomoyo and Tomoya should not be mistaken... or are you doing it on purpose? XD

[cbatty]

@cbatty: Tomoyo and Tomoya should not be mistaken... or are you doing it on purpose? XD

oops - typos - sorry

Fixed now!

That'll tech me for typing while watching the show - must have Tomoyo on the brain ;)

[sikvod00]

@Sheba: Were responding to me? Because I was pretty much laying out the same case you were.

[darry]

Some thoughts while watching Ep 17.....



The depression Tomoya showed pre op reminded me much of his father. It hurt greatly to se him in this state.

The op has new meaning for me now, especially the lyrics.

Tomoya is really lucky to have Sanae to be looking out for him and pushing him otherwise he may deepen into depression. Tomoya's loss reminds me of Takayuki in Kiminozo - the guilt that Tomoya feels, while different is also similar.

I loved the cat and mouse game Ushio played with Tomoya. She really is her mothers' daughter. She is a much smaller version of Nagisa.

Sanae is rather devious ;) what a diabolical plan to bring father and daughter together for the first time - that is not just a short visit.

And now we know who it is at the start of the ending theme.

Next week's preview worries me - Tomoya lashing out was upsetting - poor Ushio.



we ? tzz i knew it since i saw the ending for the first time :P

was a nice episode like it how sanae/akio trying to build a bond between those 2. cant wait for 18.. another week :(

[Sheba]

@Sheba: Were responding to me? Because I was pretty much laying out the same case you were.

Not really, but to a few couple of people I was too lazy to name.

[RandomFlameStrike]

Gah Ushio is so cute... I thought I'd be more angry seeing Tomoya's indiffrent attitude, but like the first time I saw it, I couldn't really RAGE against him since I know he's also going through a lot of pain. I don't think he really holds anything against Ushio though. He just doesn't see himself as a father and Ushio as his child.

Sanae and Akio are really great though. They seem to have made a recovery and are even taking care of their late daughter's child. Sanae works to promote a relationship between father and daughter. Heh Ushio even refers to Akio as Akii

[Proto]

Then, at the end of the School Life chapter of Clannad, she finally took off to America like she was supposed to do about 17 episodes earlier.

Why would anyone want to leave in the middle of the school year and not wait for it to finish so that you can get your school grade and make your whole college admission process easier for you. :p

[Kristen]

They did a lot more in this episode than I thought they would. I had though that they'd have gone through the entire episode and we'd just see Ushio at the very end, not do the whole first day together.

Ushio is just... CUTE! *Hugs Ushio* Tomoya-kun, forget about Nagisa! I'll marry you to be Ushio's mother! Please? Pretty please?

Sanae is a sneaky devil as always. XD Also, I love the anteater doll Ushio has. References! :)

Though they didn't play the right song at the end of the episode. :(

10/10 for the episode, loses a point for playing the wrong song just before the ED, so 9/10 overall.

Though I was surprised that it was Ushio at the start of the ED and not Nagisa. Maybe keeping it in does have its merits.

[brocko]

Nice ED transition and I've realised just how saddening the OP has become, good thing this episode was a fairly light-hearted one though. Provides a good balancing to the somewhat depressing start this time around, i don't know how I'll cope with future episodes when they start getting more BAW-inducing.

Ushio is by far the most adorable thing in Clannad and I absolutely enjoyed every second of her screentime. I had abit of a shock when i first heard her speak to be honest, she really does sound like a boy! Props to her seiyuu Satomi Koorogi and the best thing of all is that she managed to do so all by herself lol =P

Very cute how Ushio was playing with her food, and I must say KyoAni definitely stands out among the rest due to scenes like these where they will pay attention to the smallest of details and actually animate it, perfect example would be how Ushio plays with the grains of rice between her thumb and index finger.

And I just had to mention this scene let alone post screenies of it. It's actually tied with the food scene for most favourite Ushio moment of the episode to be honest :P
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8913/ushioeg3.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ushioeg3.jpg)http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3999/ushio0cj9.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ushio0cj9.jpg)
She somewhat kinda reminds me of Kana from Minami-ke and Miu from Ichigo Mashimaro in that pose for some reason. I also had an idea for one of em de-motivator posters using the first screenshot, but I just couldn't bring myself to use Ushio for such a purpose ;)

BTW did anyone else apart from me manage to catch Kyoto Animation in the sponsors screen? :heh:

[Ascaloth]

Episode 17 article is up:

[RIUVA] CLANNAD ~After Story~, Episode 17 (http://www.riuva.com/?p=1365)

This actually comes across as a light-hearted, if somewhat morbidly so, episode. Another life, another journey, another After Story. 9/10.

[SnackPacs]

Eh, I get that Tomoya just went through as much of he did and it was enough of a challenge to open up and change himself before...

But I've just been around death too much, personal and not, to just be unable to sympathize as much. I'm not saying his behavior is inexcusable, I'm just saying that my feelings, and purely my own, are what's making me so hateful towards him.

I've threatened my significant other though, if they were to behave like Tomoya and become all distant towards our child were anything to ever happen to me, I'd make sure they'd regret it. :mad:

Be it... I haunt them or something. XD

[cbatty]

After watching it again the scene at the supermarket was interesting.

It was funny how Ushio secretly followed Tomoya to the store.. however meeting the lady who knew them both - at least in passing - but summing up so clearly the relationship between Tomoya and Ushio, and the loneliness that Tomoya must be feeling, and to an extent, Ushio is also feeling too.

Sometimes wisdom can come from somewhere least expected.

"Not meeting each other really is lonely, isn't it? Since she's your daughter, right?"

Such a simple question, but Tomoya's politeness forced him to answer in agreement, and in that one moment, Tomoya may have realised that he didn't have to be quite so lonely with Ushio around. I assume that Ushio didn't understand all of what was said, but the look they shared afterwards suggests that she understood enough. That Tomoya was important to her, and for Tomoya, how important Ushio was to him.

From that point on, I like to think that Tomoya's grey world may have a bit more colour in it.

[MeoTwister5]

First off, I skipped the OP which is something I rarely do in anything I watch, because it's 1 week to early to be reminded that she's dead.

Also, I noticed that Tomoya has facial hair now, or he's to screwed up emotionally to bother shaving.

----------------

"I hate this city" ~In Monochrome~

As someone who's had friends killed in accidents, a grandfather shot in front of his house and an uncle die of cancer, I can totally understand what has become of Tomoya' mental state. Maybe not to an intimate degree of understanding, but I can relate to the challenge of ultimately picking up the pieces of being the one who is "left behind." Honestly, I think, being the one left behind is the hardest emotional torment to wrestle.

The shattering realization that the one most most important to you is no longer asleep by your bed. That she will no longer make you breakfast, make your lunch with a smile, bid you goodbye, help you with your laundry and keep the house clean.

That she will no longer welcome you home with open arms.

And so, he had almost unkowingly become the person he had hated the most: his father. The parallelism is all to obvious to anyone who has been watching the series. Whether he had knowingly or unknowingly chosen to become like his father before him is probably not out true concern, but whether he will become a listless and emotionally destitute father for the remainder of his shattered life.

The biggest irony is that if he actually let his beard grow more, he'd look EXACTLY like his father.

"Things have really changed..."

5 years can really change so many things.

Of course, for Tomoya, time stopped on that snowy day 5 years ago.

"What are your plans for Summer?"

It was obvious just how much respect Tomoya had for Sanae and Akio. Even after her death he seems to have maintained contact, as they had probably become his emotional crutch after the loss of Nagisa. A lesser person would have gotten angry with Sanae's nagging, but he trusts her enough to go along with her making plans for his summer work break.

We all know just how much wisdom the senior Furukawas have, even if they have... odd ways of showing it. In a way they screwed over Tomoya by disappearing for god knows what reason, but we can believe they did it for Tomoya's sake. What ends in their house when he arrives is a letter and 2 tickets. 2 tickets?

And she looks exactly like her mother...

Heck she has some of her mother's mannerisms!

"Ushio!"

Honestly I think the studio did this on purpose. In the game Ushio didn't really look like Nagisa a lot, but in the episode I could swear she's the splitting image of her mother. Maybe to drive home the fact that she really is her mother's daughter?

The reason why I loved Ushio in the game, and it shows in the episode, is because she is who she is: she looks, acts and talks like she's 5 years old. Most other series have either an old lady trapped in a loli body, or a kid with the mind of 20 year old. Ushio is as Ushio does. She's looks like she's 5, acts like she's 5, speaks like she's 5 and thinks like she's 5. I freakishly adorable 5 year old girl anyway.

And no, I don't think she's afraid of Tomoya. I have nieces, cousins and heck even a godchild about her age.

She not afraid. She's shy.

A typical kid shy around strangers. Okay maybe he's not really a stranger, but although she knows he's her father, she's still shy and wary around the man who was never really a figure in her life.

And if one thing is certain about her in this episdoe... she's looks really lonely.

"Is it okay if I take out the pepper?"

If Tomoya didn't give a damn about Ushio, he would not have said this honestly. For me, this is the line the really gives the first impression that he does, in fact, care about her. And as someone who also cooks, taking out the pepper in fried rice is really really hard.

Also... OMFG YAY rice sprinkles!!

"Let's go to the beach!"

This was not a line from either father or daughter but from a random passerby, but this is I think is the most memorable scene in this episode. You only need to look at Ushio's lonely face, and her father's bored one, to know what she really wants.

"Do you want to go on a trip? Are you fine with a person like me?"

A journey to an unknown place for an unknown reason. A father and a daughter separated by death and five years. They don't know what Sanae and Akio planned for them but... that is a story for another episode.

----------------

The transition of Ushio skipping at the end of the episode into the ED was pure genius.:heh:

[nani]

From that point on, I like to think that Tomoya's grey world may had a bit more colour in it.

Nice episode. Although there is no major plot advancement, I am already growing attached to Ushio.....:heh: My only nitpick is that this episode should be done in monochrome to emphasis Tomoya's lost of interest in everything.

On the other hand, anyone noticed that in the 5 years in between, the Furukawa household had replaced their old TV with a wide screen flat panel TV? In addition, the withering of the plants in Tomoya's house is a nice touch. Once again, KyoAni's attention to details impresses me very much.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5023/compareci5.th.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=compareci5.jpg)

[blanclait]

^
ya and the dango dolls are gone.

[Kinny Riddle]

Welcome to the spotlight at last Ushio-chan. No more will there be trigger-happy mods laying their finger on callous users who carelessly utter your name. :heh:

Kyo-Ani made Ushio-chan resemble Nagisa even more than Key's illustrations ever did. Though Ushio didn't inherit the ahoge on her mother's side. This robably means she'll inherit her father's wittiness instead of her mother and grandparents' occasional eccentricities. :cool:

As if to make it absolutely crystal clear, Kyo-Ani nicely synched Ushio running with the beginning of Torch, leaving no doubt that the girl skipping happily at the beginning of this ED is indeed Ushio.

Thumbs up must be given to Nakamura Yuuichi for giving this disheartened and disillusioned Tomoya (not to mention taking up smoking and no longer regularly clean-shaven) a somewhat new and different voice than the cool but still naive Tomoya that we've gotten used to in the past.

Tomoya, when Ushio says she went to the bathroom all by herself, you're supposed to praise her, not saying as a matter-of-factly that you do it by yourself as well. Then again, he's not been a father all these 5 years of depression.

PS Nearly forgot, if Sanae-san can obtain Akiko's Jam (TM), obtaining Sayuri-san's giant anteater doll is no problem for her. :D

[Dream]

i always thought ED girl was tomoyo

[TooPurePureBoy]

I knew that seemed like a kindergartner's outfit at the beginning of the ED ! Yay Me! :cool:

It's weird, I look at Ushio and i'm like, wow that would be painful because she is such a reminder of Nagisa in the looks department, but she definitely has her own unique personality. I can't wait to see her work her magic and bring Tomoya out of his funk.

[velvet]

And I just had to mention this scene let alone post screenies of it.
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8913/ushioeg3.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ushioeg3.jpg)http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3999/ushio0cj9.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ushio0cj9.jpg)
She somewhat kinda reminds me of Kana from Minami-ke and Miu from Ichigo Mashimaro in that pose for some reason. I also had an idea for one of em de-motivator posters using the first screenshot, but I just couldn't bring myself to use Ushio for such a purpose ;)


She did not cry. (We'll see the reason real soon, I think)
Thanks to that I was the one crying.
You live your life strongly, carrying your mother's resolution.

It was painful enough watching Tomoya avoiding Ushio's look.
Why? She's not at fault.
I can't stand looking at a 5 years old not being rewarded.

Oh I know. You just can't stand it right?
She looked a lot like Nagisa.
But Ushio did not deserved that.
You just become the very person you despised of.

[/rant][/cry]


Though they didn't play the right song at the end of the episode. :(

10/10 for the episode, loses a point for playing the wrong song just before the ED, so 9/10 overall.


Just a friendly reminder, but...
Negau ga Kanau Basho ni II and Sora ni Hikaru (the one played in the end of this EP) is the two songs you should really watch out for.
One of those two always appeared when something not good for our health (in other words, painful) or simply touching, came.;)

Edit 1 :
@Joachim
Its titled Uminari I and II in japanese I think ;)

Edit II:

Preview. Ganbare Ushio-chan. mou sukoshi dake, sukoshi dake desu kara.....

[Joachim]

Just a friendly reminder, but...
Negau ga Kanau Basho ni II and Sora ni Hikaru (the one played in the end of this EP) is the two songs you should really watch out for.
One of those two always appeared when something not good for our health (in other words, painful) or simply touching, came.;)

^

quoted for truth :heh: damn those 2 track and i dont know the japanese name, but in my ipod it was titled "roaring tides & roaring tides 2" and that track also usually plays when something painful come in play

[typhonsentra]

Wow, I can't believe I never put it together it was Ushio at the beginning of the ED. Always assumed it was Nagisa. And holy crap, they look so much alike!

But I have to say, even if he's hurt over his wife to just abandon your child like that is still unacceptable. Perhaps he couldn't take care of her while he worked but to never even regularly visit? Douchebag.

[Dream]

"I hate this city" ~In Monochrome~

on rock and roll~~


:D srry for the corny jokes :heh:

[Ithekro]

I think it said he visited...it is just Sanae and Akio were always there as well.

It also looks like he mentally starts to treat Ushio like he treated Fuko, but then stops himself...like he's trying not to care because it will bring a painful memory. That and it was both himself and Nagisa that took care of Fuko...which would also be a painful remainder that Nagisa is gone...if he could remember Fuko that is.

[sikvod00]

There's a saying from a sitcom (Frasier, if you must know :p) : "You don't just love your child. You fall in love with them." For many, parental love isn't some innate, natural that happens the minute the baby comes out. It's a process that comes with maintaining a relationship and spending time with that individual. Love for your child grows, it isn't static. And we know that Tomoya was pretty much near the starting line compared to Nagisa. Remember his response to Sunohora's question about becoming a father: He had NO clue what it meant or entailed. Worse yet, he didn't seem tocare. Ushio only mattered in terms of Nagisa being pregnant. She was born for Nagisa's sake, not because they both wanted it.

Anyways, I wonder if now that he's largely rehabilitated he's fearful of moving on and falling in love with his daughter--just as he did with Nagisa--only to lose her as well. I also remember what he said after Nagisa's death: It would have been better if they'd never met. He has a problem with moving forward, something that Nagisa implied when she met him after his graduation. In that sense, she's much stronger than him. Having the courage to try your best and move forward; that's the very definition of his dearly beloved.

[Nerroth]

D'awwwwwwww!


Ushio is so cute...


...but damn Tomoya for going all Mr. Bushido - only the mask Tomoya's wearing to hide the better parts of himself away is made of flesh and blood.

[Ithekro]

I don't know what it is...I still mentally try to put Sanae as Rena Ryugu at 45. She's about as persistent as Rena...especially it her nagging/teasing of Tomoya, even over the phone.

Of course this leads to an oddity...don't lie to Sanae...she knows your secrets...all of them.

[Justin Kim]

Ushio is cute, I agree:D I wish I had a daughter like that when I grow up - and the ending had nice transition, now I know where all that skipping was from:D

[Change of Pace]

Well, I'll probably get flamed for this, but imho, what an utterly boring episode. I was waiting for something important to happen the whole time, and it just... never came. Possibly because I'm not too fond of kids myself, but geez KyoAni, for those of us who aren't content with sitting around for scenes like Nagato reading a book or Tomoya wandering around aimlessly, at least throw something in. I thought the beginning of the episode, with Tomoya being melancholic was fine, because I was expecting that, but I really did not care that Tomoya fixed up Ushio's turtle and then it breaking again later. In all honesty, I didn't give a shit. And whether or not most of you can go on about the little minor details that make this show so lovable, etc. etc. etc, I'd disagree completely. It seemed that Clannad went from slice-of-life to slice of a very mundane sleep festival; I was thoroughly disappointed that this episode followed last week's tear-jerker. Just... this whole episode has left me feeling very irritated, and this is something I've wanted to say since after story started: I haven't been able to enjoy after story because I spend much of the episodes being irritated at something. In the previous episodes, it was the lack of romance. But now, it's just the lack of... eventful scenes. Imho, this has been the worst episode this season.

Now then, I'll sit back and watch as flame and hatred is poured down on me. But I'll say one thing; I think that people have a problem criticizing their favourite series. Just because I have a low opinion of an episode, people instantly translate that to Nagisa and Clannad hatred, but that's not the case. If I hated the series, I wouldn't watch it every week, but that doesn't take away my ability to coherently judge an episode based on my standards. Hell, I'm still going to get hate, but an opinion's an opinion, right?

[Divini]

I don't know what it is...I still mentally try to put Sanae as Rena Ryugu at 45. She's about as persistent as Rena...

Speaking of Rena...

汐ちゃんはかわいいよ！　おもちかえりいいい！
:eyespin:

Is what I thought every time Ushio was onscreen. Yes, she was THAT adorable :)

[SnackPacs]

Well, I'll probably get flamed for this, but imho, what an utterly boring episode. I was waiting for something important to happen the whole time, and it just... never came. Possibly because I'm not too fond of kids myself, but geez KyoAni, for those of us who aren't content with sitting around for scenes like Nagato reading a book or Tomoya wandering around aimlessly, at least throw something in. I thought the beginning of the episode, with Tomoya being melancholic was fine, because I was expecting that, but I really did not care that Tomoya fixed up Ushio's turtle and then it breaking again later. In all honesty, I didn't give a shit. And whether or not most of you can go on about the little minor details that make this show so lovable, etc. etc. etc, I'd disagree completely. It seemed that Clannad went from slice-of-life to slice of a very mundane sleep festival; I was thoroughly disappointed that this episode followed last week's tear-jerker. Just... this whole episode has left me feeling very irritated, and this is something I've wanted to say since after story started: I haven't been able to enjoy after story because I spend much of the episodes being irritated at something. In the previous episodes, it was the lack of romance. But now, it's just the lack of... eventful scenes. Imho, this has been the worst episode this season.

Now then, I'll sit back and watch as flame and hatred is poured down on me. But I'll say one thing; I think that people have a problem criticizing their favourite series. Just because I have a low opinion of an episode, people instantly translate that to Nagisa and Clannad hatred, but that's not the case. If I hated the series, I wouldn't watch it every week, but that doesn't take away my ability to coherently judge an episode based on my standards. Hell, I'm still going to get hate, but an opinion's an opinion, right?

Exactly, an opinion is an opinion.

But... People DON'T have a problem criticizing the show. It WASN'T boring for MOST of us. Things develop and in this case, it was a heavy focus on the relationship between Ushio and Tomoya.

Key works, based on what I've experienced have ALWAYS been slow paced. Look at Air... Half of the crap that happens in it, while it may be experiences leading Yukito in the right direction, PROBABLY COULD HAVE BEEN SKIPPED. At least IMHO, when they tossed aside Minagi and Kano so quickly, it was like, "Why did we even bother? They're just ladders raising us up to the main plot."

This is NOTHING new to their works and you sound like someone who started watching this and is completely unfamiliar with how they work. And if that's not the case, you've become an incredibly jaded fan.

I'm not trying to insult you but merely tell you rather than flame you, you're mostly off for the views of fans. I found this a very powerful episode for me, just because of how they were able to evoke so much hate and despising of Tomoya's behavior towards Ushio. Myself and other people have said it plenty, we think Tomoya's being a bastard right now. :P

Everyone takes in fictional works different ways, I'm just sorry to hear you're not receiving it well. But it is most DEFINITELY not as bad as drudging through the first 6-8 episodes of After Story, THAT was a challenge.

[nines]

Mmmm all i have to say i see coming to ushio is, like father like son.

[Ithekro]

Ah but there is another factor aside from "like father like son", there is also "like mother like daughter". If there is anything that can snap Tomoya out of his funk, it will be related to Ushio, just like it was Nagisa that snapped him out of his original funk.

[velvet]

I really did not care that Tomoya fixed up Ushio's turtle and then it breaking again later. In all honesty, I didn't give a shit. And whether or not most of you can go on about the little minor details that make this show so lovable, etc. etc. etc, I'd disagree completely.

Ofc no one would give a shit.
I mean, it's the 1st time in 5 years, her dad do something for her.
Wait, no, her whole lifetime.
Oh and no one should give a shit too on why a 5 years old held back crying from falling in her face.


It seemed that Clannad went from slice-of-life to slice of a very mundane sleep festival; I was thoroughly disappointed that this episode followed last week's tear-jerker. Just... this whole episode has left me feeling very irritated, and this is something I've wanted to say since after story started: I haven't been able to enjoy after story because I spend much of the episodes being irritated at something. In the previous episodes, it was the lack of romance. But now, it's just the lack of... eventful scenes.

Irritated.


Imho, this has been the worst episode this season.


Pardon me, this whole season? As in spring 2009?
Or in the whole after story?


Now then, I'll sit back and watch as flame and hatred is poured down on me. But I'll say one thing; I think that people have a problem criticizing their favourite series. Just because I have a low opinion of an episode, people instantly translate that to Nagisa and Clannad hatred, but that's not the case. If I hated the series, I wouldn't watch it every week, but that doesn't take away my ability to coherently judge an episode based on my standards. Hell, I'm still going to get hate, but an opinion's an opinion, right?

You don't hate things that irritated you. You are a saint, sir.
Why should people hate you?

[Change of Pace]

This is NOTHING new to their works and you sound like someone who started watching this and is completely unfamiliar with how they work. And if that's not the case, you've become an incredibly jaded fan.

...And I love how this is the logical conclusion people seem to arrive at; if you don't like it, you aren't a series fan, or you're a newbie. For the record, no, this isn't the first time watching a Key storyline; yes, I did watch Kanon and Air and every other series KyoAni has produced - that is to say, I'm in love with their animation style. And yes, I enjoyed those series, just as I would say on the whole I've enjoyed Clannad and it's been a great ride. But in a thread otherwise full of nothing but praise, me reiterating anything I liked in the episode seems redundant to me; so I skip right to what I didn't. Yeah, sure, I can say After Story's great, but who cares? 4 pages of the same praise doesn't need any more.


Everyone takes in fictional works different ways, I'm just sorry to hear you're not receiving it well. But it is most DEFINITELY not as bad as drudging through the first 6-8 episodes of After Story, THAT was a challenge.
Different opinions is right; after all this, yes, I do prefer the harem over after story at this point, and I didn't mind that portion of after story at all.

Ofc no one would give a shit.
I mean, it's the 1st time in 5 years, her dad do something for her.
Wait, no, her whole lifetime.
Oh and no one should give a shit too on why a 5 years old held back crying from falling in her face.
She's 5, and she's grown up with Sanae and Akio, barely ever seeing her father. At this point, "Akii" would take on a much more fatherly role than Tomoya, and hell, he might just be a stranger to her. She's 5, man, aren't you reading too much into this? Isn't there a possibility she was simply bored at home and wanted to go on a trip, regardless of who it was with? She wanted her turtle fixed, regardless of who fixed it? She wanted her rice plain, regardless of who made it? She's not Nagisa. She's just a toddler.

Irritated.
This single word makes for such an enlightening sentence! please, good sir, bestow me with similar insights in the future!

Pardon me, this whole season? As in spring 2009?
Or in the whole after story?
All of After Story is what I'm referring to, if you were unclear about my initial meaning.

You don't hate things that irritated you. You are a saint, sir.
Why should people hate you?
I don't know, but personally, I never recall saying that people COULDN'T or SHOULDN'T hate me. Rather, I was prepared to receive flame, which is indicative that I was aware that my statements may have negative effects on other people, generally coined as "hate". And thank you for informing me, sir, that a forum discussion should be completely one-sided; that no one should have differing opinions; and that everyone should just go along with the flow and type in monotonous praise! Yes; I learned something from your somewhat sarcastic remarks; the best type of post in a discussion thread is the one with no opinion to discuss! Fascinating!

[Proto]

Indeed, in this case, it is a matter of tastes, and as such there is not much worth discussing unless we want to evaluate if slow is better than fast, if character relationships series are better than plot motivated series and the such. (which is just an example of how subjective this is.)

AKA nothing to see here, move on :p

[velvet]

She's 5, and she's grown up with Sanae and Akio, barely ever seeing her father. At this point, "Akii" would take on a much more fatherly role than Tomoya, and hell, he might just be a stranger to her. She's 5, man, aren't you reading too much into this? Isn't there a possibility she was simply bored at home and wanted to go on a trip, regardless of who it was with? She wanted her turtle fixed, regardless of who fixed it? She wanted her rice plain, regardless of who made it? She's not Nagisa. She's just a toddler.

You are right, I apologize. It's true that I read too much.
Read as in Read a book.
And I simply thought it was obvious to everyone.
I need to somehow convince you to watch 1 more episode.
And no. I don't see her as Nagisa.
No matter how much kyoani tried.


This single word makes for such an enlightening sentence! please, good sir, bestow me with similar insights in the future!


Actually, it's just to connect the fact that you are irritated with:
a)lack of romance
b)lack of... eventful scenes
and you don't hate it. I apologize if I were jumping into conclusions.


All of After Story is what I'm referring to, if you were unclear about my initial meaning.

I see. I do recall you were irritated with two episodes so far.


I don't know, but personally, I never recall saying that people COULDN'T or SHOULDN'T hate me. Rather, I was prepared to receive flame, which is indicative that I was aware that my statements may have negative effects on other people, generally coined as "hate". And thank you for informing me, sir, that a forum discussion should be completely one-sided; that no one should have differing opinions; and that everyone should just go along with the flow and type in monotonous praise! Yes; I learned something from your somewhat sarcastic remarks; the best type of post in a discussion thread is the one with no opinion to discuss! Fascinating!

I did all that via 3 sarcastic sentences?


and this is something I've wanted to say since after story started: I haven't been able to enjoy after story because I spend much of the episodes being irritated at something.

So 17 episodes is either
a)lack of romance?
b)lack of... eventful scenes?

[panzerfan]

And I think that the Chinese has fondness for their definition of harmony...

This episode honestly is really about the ability for a man to glue that turtle back in one piece and then go and take a crapper! (wow, that knocks my socks off) Change of Pace actually did hit the nail on the board about how dull it is... it is dull once the colors of your life have been fleshed out and you're left with no real zest for interesting things around you. We should be glad that KyoAni decided to not talk about the boredom from year 2-5 after death of Nagisa since life basically stopped in its track for Tomoya.

I will be very disturbed and perhaps suspecting of anyone that would want anything more than what you'd expect a toddler from Ushio. But that's getting sidetracked.

When there's no incredible spectacles to take your minds off the mundane nature of everyday interaction, attention to detail counts for something, whether it'd be in minute interactions or even the backdrop. Those I think have been done well, and personally I enjoyed that quite a bit. Not everyone wants a life without spectacles, and that's all the better, for life will be boring if everyone and everything react as expected.

(come to think of it, let's imagine how exciting it is to animate us all sitting in front of a computer typing our responses, with the audience being anyone nearby you watching your subtle change of emotion as you change the pace that you type out your response, ponder about what words you should use and then see you jet off and get something then return as you furiously press F5 from time to time...)

@Judge Bao: not too late to join Saimoe 2009

[Judge Bao]

Too bad Ushio is too late to join in the International Saimoe League 2009

[kk2extreme]

some very curious question

does anyone know that if ushio was fed with formula or breast fed by sanae?

[Proto]

What makes you think that females have an always active factory of breast milk?

[Ithekro]

Ushio will make it up in ISML next year, just as Mei is doing this year.

[kk2extreme]

What makes you think that females have an always active factory of breast milk?

it is still possible for sanae, right?:confused:

[Guardian Enzo]

See now, it's interesting how people's tastes are so different - I found that much more emotionally devastating than 16. It was beautifully subtle and understated - no shouting or wailing or gnashing of teeth, just letting the tragedy (and hope) inherent in the situation speak for itself in quiet words and long, awkward silences. Clannad, for me, is at it's very best when it steps off the emotional gas pedal and let's the characters interact naturally and in a muted tone.

[azziz]

Well, I'll probably get flamed for this, but imho, what an utterly boring episode. I was waiting for something important to happen the whole time, and it just... never came. Possibly because I'm not too fond of kids myself, but geez KyoAni, for those of us who aren't content with sitting around for scenes like Nagato reading a book or Tomoya wandering around aimlessly, at least throw something in. I thought the beginning of the episode, with Tomoya being melancholic was fine, because I was expecting that, but I really did not care that Tomoya fixed up Ushio's turtle and then it breaking again later. In all honesty, I didn't give a shit. And whether or not most of you can go on about the little minor details that make this show so lovable, etc. etc. etc, I'd disagree completely. It seemed that Clannad went from slice-of-life to slice of a very mundane sleep festival; I was thoroughly disappointed that this episode followed last week's tear-jerker. Just... this whole episode has left me feeling very irritated, and this is something I've wanted to say since after story started: I haven't been able to enjoy after story because I spend much of the episodes being irritated at something. In the previous episodes, it was the lack of romance. But now, it's just the lack of... eventful scenes. Imho, this has been the worst episode this season.

Now then, I'll sit back and watch as flame and hatred is poured down on me. But I'll say one thing; I think that people have a problem criticizing their favourite series. Just because I have a low opinion of an episode, people instantly translate that to Nagisa and Clannad hatred, but that's not the case. If I hated the series, I wouldn't watch it every week, but that doesn't take away my ability to coherently judge an episode based on my standards. Hell, I'm still going to get hate, but an opinion's an opinion, right?

to be honest i didn't liked "after story" as much etheir especially the few episode centered around tomoya-nagisa because of the latter;tough i know it's a rule in anime the protagonist will end with the most boring and uninteresting girl,i never understood why she was so popular with the fan.Be it her seiyu voice(too childish and trying too hard to look cute)or her total lack of attractivness,Nagisa was never really a woman,so i'm relieved than she's out now(didn't shead a tear for her death)maybe will i be able to enjoy the show again.

[Ottocycle]

After Story is rather polarising, I'd have to say, since it breaks the mould of what's got to happen in a bishoujo anime.

As usual, one man's meat is another man's poison.

But it sure beats the hell out of having "meh"s all over the place in the discussion threads.

EDIT: Brightman in the Clannad section?! *Goes to buy lottery*

[Justin Kim]

Well in my opinion, the most likely thing - as mentioned earlier - that will snap Tomoya out of his pre - disposition is going to be Ushio. I mean after all she does resemble Nagisa alot:), Key sure does a extravagant job on symbolizing certain important aspects related to the episode by using lighting and shadowing techniques.

[panzerfan]

From what I can recall, bishoujo do not consider the existence of dad-in-daw, the kid, the career, the housing, the protagonist's own dad, or the town. The 5 years later thing normally is only a footnote with most cases. I can only think of KGNE as a noted exception with how that the meat of the story happens out of high school aside from Clannad.

[brightman]

EDIT: Brightman in the Clannad section?! *Goes to buy lottery*

You caught me!!!:heh:

[Justin Kim]

It's intresting though, because the relationship that both Ushio and Tomoya have, somewhat differs from Tomoya and his Father. It was completely unprecedented that they wouldn't treat each other like full strangers. But then again Ushio is still a child - But for a child she's pretty smart haha, and most definetly cute. ~Her mindset to become acknowledged~

[Avacado Burger]

I'm glad they focused more on the Ushio and Tomoya bonding rather than his downfall, because frankly, I need a lift after the last episode.

Ushio is so damn adorable, I cannot describe it in words

[Leo_Otaku]

some very curious question

does anyone know that if ushio was fed with formula or breast fed by sanae?

LMAO XD You have to be pregnant to produce breast milk

to be honest i didn't liked "after story" as much etheir especially the few episode centered around tomoya-nagisa because of the latter;tough i know it's a rule in anime the protagonist will end with the most boring and uninteresting girl,i never understood why she was so popular with the fan.Be it her seiyu voice(too childish and trying too hard to look cute)or her total lack of attractivness,Nagisa was never really a woman,so i'm relieved than she's out now(didn't shead a tear for her death)maybe will i be able to enjoy the show again.

I like her for her character she isn't a cliche personality. Your loss if you can't apperciate character changes or progression. Everyone just bitches her out because they are upset their favorite girl didn't "win" but in reailty Nagisa's story leads to the best route of the game.

[Beo]

And what does this have to do with the show?

[Proto]

LMAO XD You have to be pregnant to produce breast milk

Technically you can artificially induce milk production... though I wouldn't see Sanae doing it.

[OmegaPhlare]

LMAO XD You have to be pregnant to produce breast milk.

LOL, I actually wasn't so sure of this myself until maybe 3 years ago. It's an odd thing, so maybe everyone here would find it interesting. I figured it out indirectly when I had learned that cows only produce milk for some time after having a calf. And I had only learned that after the makers of the Harvest Moon video game began to change their gameplay mechanic in that cows no longer give you milk every day for as long as they exist, it's now limited to mama cow.

So then I put those concepts together and thought to myself, probably all female mammals are this way. Upon doing a small amount of reading, I have arrived to the conclusion that you have.

Maybe there is a lack of education about the the female gender. But also, maybe we're being thrown off by... hentai?

[Proto]

LOL, I actually wasn't so sure of this myself until maybe 3 years ago. It's an odd thing, so maybe everyone here would find it interesting

What do people do nowadays in their Biology classes then?

[Rice_slayer]

I learnt about Breast-feeding/Milk when my sister had my niece last year, She said her breats when up a cup size! Anyways, onto the point. I thought the episode was great! I actually feel sorry for Ushio, as my mom babysits and I see what happens to kids who get lack of caring/attention from their parents. I can't wait for next week, the show is doing good without Nagisa. As someone else mentioned, I DID feel for her death, but I HATE the typical anime "I am a weak female with a strange sickness that comes and goes" like Shiori(I think...) in Kanon...

[OmegaPhlare]

What do people do nowadays in their Biology classes then?

My general biology class, which was taken in community college because it costs less, had taught it's students about the circulatory system, small organisms under the microscope (I'm reluctant to say 'mico'), and about the reproductive process after an egg has been fertilized.

Nothing more. =)

[Judge Bao]

My general biology class, which was taken in community college because it costs less, had taught it's students about the circulatory system, small organisms under the microscope (I'm reluctant to say 'mico'), and about the reproductive process after an egg has been fertilized.

Nothing more. =)

What about the lab? I remember I was observing testicles and eggs in microscope and dissecting a bull/cow's eye, but this was like 7 years ago.

[Ithekro]

Depends on the school/state/country you are from what they will actually teach you or what they will use as exampled. (also cow/milk production I think use to be covered by the likes of Sesame Street, and I know that is shown in a lot of countries for at least a full generation now.)

Can we get back to Clannad now?

EDIT:
I'm guessing we'll find out more about Ushio's personality later. She seems a little ackward around her father, but that is sort of understandable. I do wonder how she is with "Akii".

[GLH]

I've been pretty critical of Clannad as a whole and I've posted some of my thoughts in a few prior episode threads. Of course those (negative) thoughts didn't exactly make me popular in those threads! :heh: But after watchin this episode I knew I had to come post. I can easily say that this was my favorite episode of Clannad and that includes both seasons. I was gonna come post exactly why, but this post summed it up nicely:

See now, it's interesting how people's tastes are so different - I found that much more emotionally devastating than 16. It was beautifully subtle and understated - no shouting or wailing or gnashing of teeth, just letting the tragedy (and hope) inherent in the situation speak for itself in quiet words and long, awkward silences. Clannad, for me, is at it's very best when it steps off the emotional gas pedal and let's the characters interact naturally and in a muted tone.

Exactly. I prefer this type of drama over the forced drama we got in Nagisa's drama club arc during the first season (And the drama we mostly get from Clannad). That sort of drama for the sake of drama approach really bothers me. And that was extremely evident as we watched Nagisa go from accidentally finding out about her parents' past the night before her big performance (What a coincidence!) to her watching her dad shout his love for plays just before she was going to perform, and finally her dad busting in at the last moment to encourage his daughter to perform. :uhoh:

What happened in this episode was real, however. We see how Tomoya struggles when dealing with Ushio. As viewers, we know he has to be constantly reminded of Nagisa just be looking at Ushio. The fact that he still holds it together is rather impressive and makes the other ways in which he treats her much more believable. It's also touching to see him do things for her like cook her food or fix her toys, but at the same time it is sad to see him do those things as a stranger. Good stuff. This sort of drama will always hit deeper with me as opposed to the "Look, sickly girl is sick!" variety.

[RandomFlameStrike]

I also really enjoyed this ep for similar reasons. The way Tomoya regressed was sad to see, but I could kind of understand why he was like that. The dynamic an non exsistant relationship between father and daughter was also saddening. I guess people who can't understand or never saw the appeal of Naigsa probably don't care as much for her daughter?

Well really I don't see what the hype about the other girls is. We have 1 case of retard moe, 1 case of retard moe with super smarts, and a generc tsundere. XDD just kidding. Really I like all of the Clannad characters, but Nagisa really is ahead above the rest of the girls imo. Equal to Tomoyo of course haha. Her character interaction and what she does for Tomoya is enjoyable for me to watch/read about. Meh well I guess personal tastes are everything.

[Pink13]

Nagisa is gone?!?
The cute, sweet girl of the series?! WHY?!
well i havent seen the episode yet...
more over i didnt want to watch it since i got a BIG BAD HUNCH of tragedy.
So i stoped at episode 9 and wanted to wait till the series ended...
but i just heard from my friend (she had to tell me!!)...and WHY!?!

Lately ive been having a long streak of depressing anime lately...
*sigh*
but i still hope it all goes well in the end...

p.s.
should i continue to watch the series?

[Ithekro]

Your call.

It depends entirely on why you were watching in the first place.

[Pink13]

(whats wrong with the quote option now...)
Anyway...i watched the series because of its slice-of-life, its shows alot of mortal problems and such. Well i did have a feeling Nagisa might die from season 1 but i just ignored it...
The death of Nagisa is also a slice-of-life but...
I JUST CANT TAKE IT...

but it still is a GREAT story...
ill listening to this tread till the end of the series to know whether to watch it or not...

[Doppel]

If you're interested enough to be engaged in discussion about it, and have a generally positive view on the series, I say just watch it. I've seen a few anime that ended opposite of how I wanted, but most of the time that's what makes them memorable for me.

I still hope for a generally happy ending to Clannad, even if it isn't, it's been a nice ride :)

[Deathkillz]

Gah Ushio is so cute... I thought I'd be more angry seeing Tomoya's indiffrent attitude, but like the first time I saw it, I couldn't really RAGE against him since I know he's also going through a lot of pain. I don't think he really holds anything against Ushio though. He just doesn't see himself as a father and Ushio as his child.

Sanae and Akio are really great though. They seem to have made a recovery and are even taking care of their late daughter's child. Sanae works to promote a relationship between father and daughter. Heh Ushio even refers to Akio as Akii
Pretty much what I had to say for this episode.

I was thinking that I would be the one to lay divine judgement onto Tomoya for being a "bad father" but then just watching his own pain is killing that urge in itself. Though while Tomoya is busy being a mop just like his own father, we have Ushio here being an innocent victim. Hurry up and snap out of it Tomoya >.>

And has it been 5 years already, wow Sanae is an eternal beauty :heh:

[Justin Kim]

It's your choice whether you want to continue watching the anime or not - but I will reccomend that you should - because Ushio has become a major symbolic character of the Clannad series. Ushio will eventually appeal to you - equivalent to Nagisa.

[KaneDragon]

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4681/snapshot20090207114440vc9.th.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20090207114440vc9.jpg) Oh Sanae, stop hitting on your son-in-law; it's a little different coming from you. :heh: :p

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4955/snapshot20090207114837np3.th.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20090207114837np3.jpg) A master is out. ;_;

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5548/snapshot20090207114848hf8.th.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20090207114848hf8.jpg)http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2690/snapshot20090207120007yz0.th.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20090207120007yz0.jpg) Ushio is cute. :)

No change to OP or ED--I was sort of hoping for some slight changes, to show Ushio's face if nothing else. The transition to the ED was nice, but there was a slight awkward pause.

Poor Ushio's looking pretty scared in the preview as Tomoya loses his cool...

[SaintessHeart]

I love how actually this story might turn out to be more positive as Tomoya "reunites" with Ushio.

His depression scenes are a monochromic, what an artistic idea! When he meets Ushio and Sanae his life becomes coloured again.

P.S I don't know if it is my lolicon side egging me on or not, but Ushio is so cute.

[Ithekro]

No. She's cute even if you are not a lolicon. They make 4 years olds cute so you don't kill them.

Is there any reason why she's wearing a school uniform at all times? I'm assuming that is a uniform. (standard girls pink backpack included)

[mrboldy]

wow ushio is so cute:D:D. Sanae san and akki did a pretty good job raising her up

[Ithekro]

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4681/snapshot20090207114440vc9.th.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20090207114440vc9.jpg)

Does this mean that Sanae was the star of a reverse harem game, had there been a pre-Clananad generational harem game?
(or she really is Rena...she took Ushio home)

[OmegaPhlare]

I'm looking at a scanned poster or something for "CLANNAD Official Another Story", and that picture shows Nagisa kneeling down and holding Ushio forward. They both appear to be in a field of flowers and they are both smiling really happy. I'd like to post a thumbnail here but then I wouldn't know how to find a link to the image which already exists at ImageHost rather than uploading a second copy.

I guess this is a good comparison picture for the two of them and pretty much 'official', even from a different artist. They both have the same head shape, and eye shape, and their bangs (hair) goes the same way, although the hair may just be result from the fact that Ushio has that cute little hat. The difference I see is that Ushio has a slightly lighter color of hair and eyes.

Surely when one plays the CLANNAD visual novel, Ushio must look like Nagisa right? But even so, I was kind of thinking... the artwork for the characters in Key games looks really strange and unnatural after having watched the Kyoto Animation adaptations. No offense to the original artist, I suppose his/her style is still great to many people.

[DragoZERO]

Still.. its still sad. http://img90.exs.cx/img90/2365/k1ocray.gif

I hope its gets to be a happy and funny series again.

[Master Chibi]

1. This show never fails to surprise me with it's absolutely garbage pacing. I can't believe it went from the moment Ushio was born and Nagisa passing away to Ushio being five god damn years old. Wow. Who needs actual worthwhile transitions between matters? I mean why even bother, right? Just give us cliff notes at the beginning of every damn episode, that way we have no choice but to accept (read: tolerate) it. Wasn't there supposed to be a funeral? Don't we have other people enter the situation? Give me a fucking break here.

2. Ushio looks exactly like Nagisa. I mean exactly as in they literally copied and pasted Nagia's head directly onto Ushio's body. I mean she's still adorable, but whatever.

3. On that note, Ushio's head is GIGANTIC. I'm not joking, it's actually bigger then Tomoya's head if you compare the two, I'm not sure how (why) that works out.

4. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense, but Ushio reminds me of Fuuka in every damn way. The verbal play going on between Tomoya and Ushio is just like that of Fuuka and Tomoya, but I guess you can chalk that up to Fuuka's childlike behaviour, if nothing else (was that her name btw, I can't quite recall very well at this point).

5. I hope Tomoya stops being an emo schmuck (it gets realllllllllllllllly old) and starts hanging out with his daughter and being a real father.

6. Whatever this shit is with Nagisa's illness, and how some of you can't tell us because it would spoil things greatly, well something tells me it's going to be lame as fuck and that I'll be ready and waiting with a sawed off shotgun when it all comes together.

@_@

[Klashikari]

It is kinda funny that you are raging over the fact Tomoya is "emo", though you are also complaing of the transition.
I mean, you would be enjoying a transition of 5 years of "nagisa is dead...+lifeless state+who cares of ushio?+work+pachinko+alcohol" rinse and repeat?

Not like the transition of the start was there for nothing...

and, it is Fuuko.

[sikvod00]

^ That part of his rant also didn't make much sense to me.:uhoh:

[Sheba]

You complain about pacing, but do you really want 5 more episodes of Tomoya being a fcking wreck for five years and speed up the plot for the two or three last episodes? Gimme a break.

[Kushi]

My heart melted like butter from this episode... finally an episode that's not like the saddest thing in the world.. Ushio IS SO CUTE OMG ZOMG OMFG! And the Ushio skipping -> ending song... brillant 10 out of 10

Darn the preview doesn't look very nice though :(

[Guardian Enzo]

You have to put yourself in Tomoya's shoes and understand his situation, here. First, he's way too young for the whole marriage/fatherhood thing anyway. Second, (as is common in these cases) on some level he blamed Shio-chan for what happened to Nagisa. It's not logical - just human.

[RandomFlameStrike]

O.o yeah Chibi your post is full of contradictions lol. The transition is short because it would be booooring. From the first few mins you know what it's going to be like. Basically Tomoya being emo. They cut Tomoya's 5 years of emoness to a minimum of 1 ep then you complain that he's too Emo -_- Jeeze wait a sec haha. It would be weird for Tomoya to suddenly be all uber father like after Nagisa's death considering that all of his development was more or less beacuse of Nagisa. You get a better sense of this in the VN but the anime should make it just as clear.
I also was irked by the lack of a funeral, but there's none in the VN either and I can deal with it. As for "other people" they really can't do much in this situtation.
Oh yeah, as for the "explination" I bet you'll think it's really lame. You'll probably need a rocket launcher or something instead of a little sawed off shotgun.

[Justin Kim]

Lol wow, these past 2 weeks were filled with mixed emotions between happiness and depression. I just finished Key's AIR TV, and im pretty sure the movie is probably the same story line. (Since they've gotten into the habit of doing that for alot of their animes). I guess Key is really good at making you feel sad, and then afterwards happy after realizing maybe things weren't so bad at the beginning.

[Yushi]

>.< I don't normally like kids but Ushio is soooo cute! So innocent and shy. Did someone say a 40-ish year old woman voiced her?! Holy cow! Now that is good voice acting! Ushio's voice didn't sound like those "forced cute kiddy" voices at all!
=< And yeah, Nagisa's absence is painfully obvious...
I'm glad Tomoya wasn't as harsh as I thought he would be. I thought he might completely ignore her or snap at her. Instead, he was just a bit awkward and cold around her, but at least he made her food, fixed her toy and all that.
It's amazing how technically, not a lot happened in this episode but I couldn't fast forward even a second of it @_@

[brocko]

And has it been 5 years already, wow Sanae is an eternal beauty :heh:

Don't forget she's only 17 remember lol :heh:

[Sorrow-K]

See now, it's interesting how people's tastes are so different - I found that much more emotionally devastating than 16. It was beautifully subtle and understated - no shouting or wailing or gnashing of teeth, just letting the tragedy (and hope) inherent in the situation speak for itself in quiet words and long, awkward silences. Clannad, for me, is at it's very best when it steps off the emotional gas pedal and let's the characters interact naturally and in a muted tone.
This. There was an eminent bitter-sweet feeling in this episode. Bitter because of Tomoya's reaction to Nagisa's death and sweet because of Ushio. We're in a prime position, because what we're probably going to see is Tomoya learning to become a father. This show has always been best with its character development when it's dealt with its characters, primarily Tomoya, maturing, and I think that's likely what we're going to see. I also like how this show is using a deft touch with drama, it didn't dwell on Tomoya at his worst for any longer than it had to, and even then it wasn't as if Tomoya was an incapacitated depressed husk, he just continued to live a monotonous, emotionally detached lifestyle. Comfortably numb, if you will.

Edit: Just to dwell on the first few minutes (unlike the show did), I think it's worth thinking about the similarities between Tomoya at that moment and his own father, which makes the (subtle) suggestion that, had he not had certain influences in his life, Tomoya was likely doomed, maybe by genetics, maybe by influence, to repeat the mistakes his father made. But it was obvious that there were moments where he resembled in father in that first minutes vignette. I also thought that he slightly resembled Akio as well, in mannerisms and whatnot (the smoking was the big one, but there were little things as well). The important male influences in his life almost go some way towards explaining Tomoya's... well, I wouldn't say "rejection" of Ushio, I suppose "reluctance" is a better word... towards his daughter. Unlike Nagisa, he spent a large chunk of his formative years where the concept of "family" wasn't a very strong one in his life. It's no surprise that when Tomoya started his own family, after something as big as Nagisa's death happened, it'd break down. If it wasn't for Sanae, it probably wouldn't have mended again either.

[Justin Kim]

It's not like Tomoya is completely ignoring Ushio, he just doesn't know what do with her. Look at the episode again, there's much symbolization going on purposely by Key. Pay attention to the lighting, and it seems as though the next trip will involve more key aspects of the Clannad After Story outline. The relationship between father and daughter isn't so bad, Tomoya just needs to acknowledge the responsibility Nagisa had given him. After all, isn't that Nagisa's wish? To have a child? She wished for a family that would live with happiness, Tomoya must realize that he can still fulfill Nagisa's wish by raising Ushio himself. Tomoya isn't a bad guy, just a guy whose soul has become an empty shell. An empty dark shell, that needs light in order to find it's way to his heart.

[Ushio]

I loved this episode. Ushio is adorable. ^^

I hope a miracle happens.

[Master Chibi]

It is kinda funny that you are raging over the fact Tomoya is "emo", though you are also complaing of the transition.
I mean, you would be enjoying a transition of 5 years of "nagisa is dead...+lifeless state+who cares of ushio?+work+pachinko+alcohol" rinse and repeat?

Well 'emo' in general is something I'm sure most of us aren't in favor of seeing, but realistically speaking an actual transition would have been better then the time skip we got.

Sure, we would have gotten more emo Tomoya, but it would have been expected and taken as part of his development just as it is now. My problem is that with what we've been given now he's been irresponsibly loafing around avoiding the situation for five years, so the intial act and reality of the situation never quite set in, they just shove us so far past the actual act that the emotion that encompassed the situation has already faded away, and as a viewer I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take it. Am I supposed to put her death in the past that quickly because we've already got a talking, toddler age Ushio walking around?

I guess I have to at this point ;p.

Not like the transition of the start was there for nothing...

There was no transition. A transition is supposed to bridge two scenes together, and we did not get that, it just went from her giving birth to Ushio being five years old.

and, it is Fuuko.

Yeah I thought so, my bad :heh:.

You complain about pacing, but do you really want 5 more episodes of Tomoya being a fcking wreck for five years and speed up the plot for the two or three last episodes? Gimme a break.

I want proper placing, plain and simple. I want to get into Tomoya's head immediately after all that went down, not be thrown into it half a decade afterwards.

O.o yeah Chibi your post is full of contradictions lol. The transition is short because it would be booooring.

Like that's ever been an issue for this show (we had an entire episode of Tomoya's have a tough time as his new workplace, HOW EXCITING)

From the first few mins you know what it's going to be like. Basically Tomoya being emo. They cut Tomoya's 5 years of emoness to a minimum of 1 ep then you complain that he's too Emo -_- Jeeze wait a sec haha. It would be weird for Tomoya to suddenly be all uber father like after Nagisa's death considering that all of his development was more or less beacuse of Nagisa. You get a better sense of this in the VN but the anime should make it just as clear.
I also was irked by the lack of a funeral, but there's none in the VN either and I can deal with it.

The lack of a funeral is bullshit. I think that's what bothered me most. At the very least they could have gone to that after Ushio gave birth, and then jumped ahead five years, but it's like it wasn't even given consideration.

Oh yeah, as for the "explination" I bet you'll think it's really lame. You'll probably need a rocket launcher or something instead of a little sawed off shotgun.

How about a rocket launcher that shoots little sawed off shotguns that shoot bullets?

:eyespin:

[Ithekro]

To everything there is a reason. For everything there will be a moment.

It is picking to best time and place for that moment and to be sure it is shown for the right reason. That is what counts.

There is no reason to show Nagisa's funeral, as such a moment would give closure of her to Tomoya, who has obviously not had that closure. If he doesn't have that moment of closure, why should we have it, since (game-wise) we are Tomoya.

[destiny4everlove]

Episode 17

-“I live only because I’m alive”, those are some powerful words from Tomoya and express the great sadness and emptiness Tomoya has experienced during these five years without her beloved Nagisa. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi04.gif

-Many people seek refuge from the pain in work after someone they loved died. They spend as much time as possible at work; keeping themselves as busy as possible, since work allow them to numb the pain and not have to think about their situations. And as we saw in this episode, Tomoya is doing just that.

-So Tomoya is not only using work to escape his painful reality, he is also using gambling and drinking. It was so hard seeing Tomoya like that. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi32.gif

-Tomoya’s house is a mess too. :(

-Tomoya thinking that meeting Nagisa, dating her, marrying her and having a child with her were all mistakes really broke my heart. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi04.gif

-It was very smart how they showed Tomoya’s emotional state by showing the scenes of his life void of color, just like it was at the very beginning of Clannad. Color represents happiness, and right now happiness (color) has been taken out of Tomoya’s life.

- I was expecting more emo time courtesy of Tomoya, but I guess they decided the intro of the ep was more than enough.


-Love the opening! http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi01.gifThe images and the song are both beautiful! And the song (the lyrics) is so fitting for the After Story.



-I loved the op song before, but after reading the subs from Eclipse…I absolutely totally love the op song!! http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi9b.gif The lyrics are so perfect for the After Story.

-Watching the opening and paying attention to the lyrics of the OP song was so heartbreaking!http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi32.gif I have always thought that the lyrics were very fitting for the After Story, and now more than ever! Moreover, the song makes so much more sense now than I did before. I loved the song before but now I love it so much more!!

-After watching last week’s episode and the girl and robot’s scenes in this episode, I noticed how in Clannad white/snow is used to represent sadness. So when the imaginary world is completely white it will mean that it will be covered by complete sadness. I wonder if situations that are taking place outside of the imaginary world are the reason why the imaginary world is being covered in white. I wonder if the winter in the imaginary world is the effect of something that happens outside of that world. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Manga/japanese-034.gif

-And Sanae has finally confessed that she likes to date younger men and that Tomoya is her type. ;) http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Manga/xD-075.GIF

-I loved how Sanae kept looking (and she still is) after her son-in-law even after Nagisa’s death. She is such a good person and such a great mother-in-law. :)

-Loved the way in which Sanae convinced Tomoya to go on the family trip. And I loved even more Sanae’s plan to make Tomoya and Ushio spend more time together. :blush:

-The little hide-and-seek game between Tomoya and Ushio was so adorable. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi00.gif

-It was great how they made the room immediately brighten as soon as Ushio came into the picture. It was a great way to represent what Ushio means in her grandparents' lives and what she would also mean in Tomoya’s life if he would let her.

-Ushio is so adorably cute!!! http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi00.gif And she looks so much like her mother.

-So Akio got his way and Ushio is calling him Akki. :heehee: BTW, I wonder why Ushio does not call Sanae grandma or just Sanae. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Manga/japanese-046.gif

-Nooooooo!!http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi31.gif Tomoya is smoking too!! He is becoming more and more like his father. :(

-So Sanae and Akio were the ones who raised Ushio after Nagisa died.

-Ushio is five years old...wow! http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Surprise/surprised-021.gif Five years have already passed since Nagisa’s death.

-I loved how Sanae tried for Tomoya and Ushio to have a relationship by taking Ushio to Tomoya’s place from time to time. But it was so sad to see how distant Tomoya and Ushio are from each otherhttp://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Sad/sad-048.gif, not just physically but also emotionally. Ushio being so nervous and maybe even a little afraid around her own father like she would be around a stranger really broke my heart. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Sad/sad-049.gif

-It was heartbreaking to see how Tomoya has been making himself distant from his own daughter. I guess it was too painful being around her.

-“She’s like a boy”. You are lying to yourself Tomoya, she is the spitting image of Nagisa. Seeing Ushio must remind Tomoya of Nagisa so much that maybe that is one of the reasons why he tried to separate physically and emotionally from his daughter.

-Ushio being so brave and trying not to cry after she fell was so touching! http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi04.gif

-I don’t know why, but for some reason Tomoya repairing Ushio’s turtle-san reminded me of the girl and robot. Maybe it was because sometimes it seems like the robot is fixing stuff for the girl in the imaginary world. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi34-1.gif

-Even Ushio’s expressions are just like Nagisa’s. It was adorable :blush: but sad :( at the same time.

-“I’m sure it must be lonely for her not to be able to see you”. Sometimes you need to hear the most obvious things from someone else to make you realize them. Tomoya is failing to realize (and to see) that he is doing exactly the same thing his father did to him after his mother died, not treating Tomoya like his son but treating him like a stranger. And unfortunately and painfully, that is exactly what Tomoya is doing to Ushio, treating her not like his daughter but like a stranger.

-Ushio not wanting to eat the rice because it was bitter reminded me of how my own mom had to make some changes in our meals so that I could eat them. Sometimes parents have to do that for their child’s sake, one thing Tomoya completely ignores due to the fact that he has not spent much time with Ushio, which is also why he doesn’t know Ushio’s likes and dislikes.

-Tomoya did not even change Ushio’s clothes the next day…that broke my heart a little more. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Sad/sad-007.gif

-Tomoya!!!!!!http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi05.gifhttp://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Manga/japanese-011.gif Ushio was not bragging about being able to go pee and poo by herself, she wanted for you to praise her!! You are supposed to make her feel good about her being able to do it by herself not making her feel bad. :mad: Another moment that showed just how disconnected Tomoya is from being Ushio’s father.:upset:

-I loved how it was Tomoya who decided to go on the trip with just Ushio and him. Whatever the reason why he decided that it was OK to go just the two of them together, I was glad that he was willing to go on that trip with Ushio. :)

-Ushio saying “Goooooo” after Tomoya said “Let’s go” was so super cute!!http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi00.gif

-Wow, that is the first time Ushio and Tomoya are alone together since she was born, that is so wow!!http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Surprise/surprised-030.png I’m glad that they are spending some time together, just the two of them, but I’m a bit worried about it. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Sad/sad-048.gif

-Even with the very cute transition between the end of this episode and the beginning of the ED, I’m still not very fond of the ED. :(

[Justin Kim]

Why are we fixing a picture of Tomoyo being "Emo?" I mean come on guys what if your really special loved one die. Expecially the one that saved you from your loneliness, hardships, and darkness. Nagisa was special to Tomoyo. If I can account, Tomoya was pretty empty and dull back then. He was senseless, reckless, and pretty much didn't care about anything. Nagisa was his only light, that sparked his soul to give himself a reason to continue on living life. Just put your feet in his shoes for a second hah.

[motaku96]

I can't get over how cute Ushio is. It's off the kawaii scale. Just....too....cute...

[Freya]

Awww I love this episode!!! Ushio=Chibi Nagisa!! Haha.

Aww Tomoya basically has been neglecting Ushio. Surprised for him to be doing everyday stuff still though.

[OceanBlue]

Sure, we would have gotten more emo Tomoya, but it would have been expected and taken as part of his development just as it is now. My problem is that with what we've been given now he's been irresponsibly loafing around avoiding the situation for five years, so the intial act and reality of the situation never quite set in, they just shove us so far past the actual act that the emotion that encompassed the situation has already faded away, and as a viewer I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take it. Am I supposed to put her death in the past that quickly because we've already got a talking, toddler age Ushio walking around?

I guess I have to at this point ;p.

I do agree that the transition was quick, and that I wish a little bit of time was put into a funeral or a transition or something. We never see how Akio and Sanae react, much less any of the other characters.

But as far as I see it, yes, you're supposed to put her death in the past, but not because Ushio's there. Instead of focusing on Nagisa's death, the series is focusing on how it affects Tomoya and Ushio. You are supposed to feel for her death, but you're also supposed to realize that her death isn't the point.

Yes, Tomoya has been irresponsibly loafing around and avoiding the situation because that's how he was before Nagisa showed up. That's because, for him, time has frozen again.

Before, he was frozen in time, as you can tell by how he remarks at how things never change for him. During the first season and halfway of the second season, you can see him gradually change. He starts feeling responsible and caring about his actions.
Well, kind of. In my opinion, the fact that it's split into arcs which are supposed to have him at the beginning slightly disrupts his growth.

Anyway, once Nagisa dies, you can see that he reverts back to his original self. He loses all sense of caring about anything and his time is frozen again because the person that caused him to want to start changing is gone. Thus, five years pass without any changes for him.

So yeah, you won't get the funeral, since you aren't supposed to focus on Nagisa's death, but the consequences of her death.

This is my opinion, of course. I'm sure this can be explained better, and I'm sure you can tie his frustration at the town changing into this as well, but nothing comes to mind right now.

Edit: Rather, contrary to most others' wishes, I'd rather only have 10-20 seconds spent on a funeral. Something to show that it happened and that everyone was sad.
And I'm surprised. I didn't view this as a particularly happy episode like others have been saying. I thought it was a little more... depressing? melancholic? that Tomoya's back to his old self, but now he has the responsibility of a child, but it's being neglected, and he's being like his father.

Edit 2: Ah, figured something out. A possible reason that Tomoya is frustrated at the changing town is because he wanted his life to be the same. He didn't want anything to change. I think Tomoya just isn't good at handling change. Something like his town changing affected him that much; just imagine how Nagisa's death was to him?

[TenkenXD]

I haven't posted in awhile, due to last week's ep. I got all depressed again (I even skipped a day of school...well, actually I was sick too, probably from staying up late that night wallowing in tears.)

Anyways, this episode made me feel bipolar since I went from super depressed to giddy and happy.

I LOVE USHIO. She's so damn adorable. In the game, I have a seperate save file just for her arc. Lol.

The anime made it so great and the transition to the ending was so cool.

Well, I like kids. I guess that makes me a little biased on this ep but 10/10.

I kinda get why some ppl are mad at this ep though. I agree with Master Chibi that maybe they should have made a funeral or some kind of scene where there's a period of mourning for Nagisa's death. (I don't remember a funeral in the game though.) but it could've been done. That would be nice.

[OceanBlue]

Does anyone find it amusing that the person to rate this episode 1/10 is named "Change of Pace"?

[TenkenXD]

Does anyone find it amusing that the person to rate this episode 1/10 is named "Change of Pace"?

Lol. Gotta love coincidences. :uhoh:

[Ithekro]

The feeling I get from this is that you (the viewer) are suppose to still be in shock over Nagisa. Having a funeral would set that in stone, but without one...just a skip that leads directly to Ushio, doesn't give you time to mourn...doesn't give you time to think about it. Doesn't give you time to believe she is really gone. Just a fade to gloomly darkness from the light, then more gloom as Tomoya robotically goes on with what is left of his existance...then the light returns in the form of Ushio (well Sanae first, but Ushio more so).

I don't think the viewer/gamer is suppose to be given the chance to believe she is gone until it is time for Ushio to appear.

[OceanBlue]

That's true. Adding a funeral would seem to add a finality to Nagisa's death, but Tomoya is still affected by Nagisa's death, so it would seem inappropriate from that angle.

I think the finality to Nagisa's death will arrive when it arrives for Tomoya.

[TenkenXD]

The feeling I get from this is that you (the viewer) are suppose to still be in shock over Nagisa. Having a funeral would set that in stone, but without one...just a skip that leads directly to Ushio, doesn't give you time to mourn...doesn't give you time to think about it. Doesn't give you time to believe she is really gone. Just a fade to gloomly darkness from the light, then more gloom as Tomoya robotically goes on with what is left of his existance...then the light returns in the form of Ushio (well Sanae first, but Ushio more so).

I don't think the viewer/gamer is suppose to be given the chance to believe she is gone until it is time for Ushio to appear.

Hmmm...I see what you mean. Also, a week after watching the ep does give the viewer plenty of time to mourn anyways huh?

I'm not saying the way KyoAni did it was bad (in fact they actually stuck close to the script) it's just they've diverged a couple of times throughout the anime, so I'm saying I could see something like that happening if they decided to do something like that, and how nice it would have been, if they did.

On the other hand, perhaps this was a better overall effect in seeing that 5 years did a number on Tomoya's case. Then suddenly thrusting him back into reality to take care of his daughter was pretty satisfying too (well to some ppl anyway). Personally, I just wanted to see Ushio. :p

[Ithekro]

The only thing I miss right now is the comedy. Clannad has some grade A comedy...I'm hoping we get more...because there can't always be sadness.

[Justin Kim]

The After Story, REALLY implements the usage of "light" for the use of symbolization. The light usually represents a new found happiness, or a being in which the person is happy. You have to pay attention to how KEY reflects light, in Tomoyo's dark robotic world.

[sikvod00]

I do agree that the transition was quick, and that I wish a little bit of time was put into a funeral or a transition or something. We never see how Akio and Sanae react, much less any of the other characters.

B
Yeah, it would have been nice to see the initial reaction of Nagisa's death from the other characters. Obviously CLANNAD's major focus is on how her death affects Tomoya, but she was important seem like he's responded, they probably get the message and gave up.t to a lot of other people as well. They would have been devastated by the news as well. I assume all that mail piling up on Tomoya's porch aren't just bills and ads; they're correspondence from friends wanting to know how he's holding up.

[NettoSaito]

it's kind of sad to see tomoya like this though. i mean when he was going to school he didn't really care much, and only had 1 good friend, but when he met nagisa he changed...... but now....... he is just plain cold.

i mean we see that he can me kind but for the most part, he isn't. also he started drinking and smoking which isn't really a good thing to do.

[Ithekro]

One thing Nagisa's parents have over Tomoya is that they've experianced her near death before...they are in some ways much more prepared than Tomoya. Every day she was alive for them was a blessing/miracle. They can probably accept this fate faster than most, despite this being the worst thing that can happen to a parent. Also they have Ushio to raise, and with their mentality, they seem fit for that (Sanae and Akio like children as seem by her tutoring and his playing baseball with the local kids)...it is almost a wonder why they didn't have a second child...aside that they probably couldn't afford it even before they gave up their regular jobs to open the bakery.

Everyone else was probably too far away, and not nearly as close to her as Tomoya, despite her being one of the things that brought them together. The only one that this might have effected more isn't around for comment.....Fuko.

[CCLemon]

One thing Nagisa's parents have over Tomoya is that they've experianced her near death before...they are in some ways much more prepared than Tomoya. Every day she was alive for them was a blessing/miracle. They can probably accept this fate faster than most, despite this being the worst thing that can happen to a parent. Also they have Ushio to raise, and with their mentality, they seem fit for that (Sanae and Akio like children as seem by her tutoring and his playing baseball with the local kids)...it is almost a wonder why they didn't have a second child...aside that they probably couldn't afford it even before they gave up their regular jobs to open the bakery.

Everyone else was probably too far away, and not nearly as close to her as Tomoya, despite her being one of the things that brought them together. The only one that this might have effected more isn't around for comment.....Fuko.

Remember, Nagisa's health was always fragile, and they most likely felt that they had wronged Nagisa by ignoring her. Thus they decided to lavish as much attention as possible, partly out of guilt and partly so they could keep close monitor on her health. If they had a second child, this would take attention away from Nagisa, something which Sanae and Akio tried to avoid.

[GameMaster0000]

I notice that they totally forgot about Misae...

She not appear since EP5, I know that it's end her Arc but at least she should appear on Nagisa graduation and send some post card in EP16 like Tomoyo did...

[velvet]

Does anyone find it amusing that the person to rate this episode 1/10 is named "Change of Pace"?

I think overdid it. -sigh-

I talked to 2 of my friends yesterday, both are first time viewers.
Kyo-ani is definitely not-so brilliant in dividing the material between eps this time.
Most first time viewer will simply view Ushio as a -sorry- moeblob.
Most will predict that Ushio will simply be adorable, and her dad would snap out of it.

IMO, eps 17 should really stop at halfway mark, and eps 18 (if I guessed right) should be 35+ minutes in length.

How this thing depressed me ...
All I can hope is for everyone to wait another episode before passing the judgment.

[Ithekro]

I notice that they totally forgot about Misae...

She not appear since EP5, I know that it's end her Arc but at least she should appear on Nagisa graduation and send some post card in EP16 like Tomoyo did...


Well she is the boys dorm mother...she didn't have all that much interaction with Nagisa in the first place.

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

It was great seeing Ushio or a mini Nagisa. Thank goodness the movie and the anime are different. I'm glad to see Tomoya at least caring a little for Ushio.

[Tiberium Wolf]

Most first time viewer will simply view Ushio as a -sorry- moeblob.



Ah? And ppl start watching the series at ep 17... yeah right.

[noobita]

Kyou and Tomoyo didnt even visit Tomoya for once within 5 years?

[Jimmy C]

A thought, what year is it in Hikarizaka as of ep17?
Clannad starts in 2003, right? Then,
+2 years, Nagisa graduates.
+1 year, pregnant with Ushio, expires after delivery.
+5 years, present.
Total, 8 years. That makes this around 2011.

[nadare]

Ah? And ppl start watching the series at ep 17... yeah right.

ROFL. I didn't watch after story yet, I just downloaded ep 17 to take a glimps of Ushio :heh:

[Gundampilotspaz]

Did anyone else unnaturally enjoy the transition into the ending credits?

[Vegard Aune]

Did anyone else unnaturally enjoy the transition into the ending credits?
I did. For once, I actually didn't mind the ending this week, and the transition into it might have been part of the reason. I suppose the ending was actually MADE for this specific episode.

...Still doesn't change the fact that the usage of it last week was an utter disaster, though.

[Gundampilotspaz]

I did. For once, I actually didn't mind the ending this week, and the transition into it might have been part of the reason. I suppose the ending was actually MADE for this specific episode.

...Still doesn't change the fact that the usage of it last week was an utter disaster, though.

Yes, it doesn't excuse that instance.

It reminds me of Chobits, during the middle of the series there were a bunch of depressing episodes. They ended them by playing the ending theme early and having it merge right into the credits. It's an incredible effect.

There are a few other examples but Chobits is the one that had the greatest effect on me.

[Nochgo]

Wow, Ushio looks alot more like Nagisa than I thought (compared to the movie). If I was in Tomoya's shoes (and were in his mind) just looking at Ushio would've probably made me really sad, and would'nt by able to even look at her. But I guess that is also why Tomoya didn't really interact with his daughter for 5 years now, not only from the shock/depression from the loss of Nagisa, but also due to the reminder of Nagisa Ushio brings about. But really, acting like a total stranger to your own daughter... Even though he has no idea of how to be a good dad, he can at least be a bit more nicer.

As for the episode itself, KyoAni really know's their stuff, or at least, what is good. I thought this whole episode would be about Emotomoya like most of us here, but that was only a fraction. And jeez, Sanae-san will die looking like she is right now, I tell you. That Akiko.... must have fed her something weird >.>

[Ithekro]

Key MILFs (and now GILFs)...never get old.
(I want Nagisa as MILF....:(. Judging by her, um, drunken scene...she'd be perfect)

It must be either the running around she does with Akio, or else her cooking has youthful properties dispite its uneatible nature. Much like special Akiko's jam.

I get the impression that Sanae can cook just fine, and her regular bread is good...just she tries to experiment way too much for public safety. I also got this impression from Akiko since Nayuki seemed to love the other jams...just was (rightfully) afraid of the special jam.

[Justin Kim]

Lol "glimpse of Ushio," she is adorablingly cute after all:D Your right, I probably would have done the same as you if I didn't watch most of the Clannad series. (My impatience probably would have gotten the best of me>.>, I always get that warm fuzzy feeling whenever I see Ushio, like I want to take responsibility and take care of others haha).

[OmegaPhlare]

Most first time viewer will simply view Ushio as a -sorry- moeblob.
Most will predict that Ushio will simply be adorable, and her dad would snap out of it.

I was thinking about this quote today, and I must say if that kind of prediction is pretty horrible... because it's just way too simple. Now I hope that I'm not just setting myself up for disappointment, but that kind of story is just like a trash American family movie where the absent father takes the kids on vacation and then starts to bond with them, then realizes he doesn't want his b*tch ex-wife to take the kids with her to Chicago or whatever medium-large city she couldn't have any real reason to go to.

This is no place for speculation, but Tomoya will probably come close to losing Ushio, or Ushio will find a memento (message) left over from Nagisa, or Tomoya will see Nagisa in a spiritual vision. Hmmm... I loved that "Forget-About-Me" scene in Kanon. Whatever it is, it will definitely be more fulfilling than a "realization" on Tomoya's part.

Nagisa didn't save the entire planet with a prayer, but she is still my Aerith; ^_^ Dearly missed and further appearing only in visions, hallucinations, and near-death experiences.

[MeoTwister5]

I was thinking about this quote today, and I must say if that kind of prediction is pretty horrible... because it's just way too simple. Now I hope that I'm not just setting myself up for disappointment, but that kind of story is just like a trash American family movie where the absent father takes the kids on vacation and then starts to bond with them, then realizes he doesn't want his b*tch ex-wife to take the kids with her to Chicago or whatever medium-large city she couldn't have any real reason to go to.

This is no place for speculation, but Tomoya will probably come close to losing Ushio, or Ushio will find a memento (message) left over from Nagisa, or Tomoya will see Nagisa in a spiritual vision. Hmmm... I loved that "Forget-About-Me" scene in Kanon. Whatever it is, it will definitely be more fulfilling than a "realization" on Tomoya's part.

Nagisa didn't save the entire planet with a prayer, but she is still my Aerith; ^_^ Dearly missed and further appearing only in visions, hallucinations, and near-death experiences.

Flashes of the obvious are pretty bad copouts for character development. Even if one can say that the truth that Tomoya needs to know with his daughter might have been inside him "all along", it doesn't just come out of you suddenly. Sometimes it takes a catharsis(sp?) experiences for people to learn what they need to. Considering the way the story unfolded in the game, I expect that KyotoAni continues to stick with it and not give us a coput resolution to this arc.

[velvet]

I was thinking about this quote today, and I must say if that kind of prediction is pretty horrible... because it's just way too simple. Now I hope that I'm not just setting myself up for disappointment, but that kind of story is just like a trash American family movie where the absent father takes the kids on vacation and then starts to bond with them, then realizes he doesn't want his b*tch ex-wife to take the kids with her to Chicago or whatever medium-large city she couldn't have any real reason to go to.


It is depressing. But can you blame them for thinking like that?

A certain someone made me realize that simply there is nothing that proved Ushio knew that Tomoya is her father until know.
She might always accepted that Akio was her father.
The VN readers should know the truth.


That's why I'm depressed about the way this arc is divided.
Even so when I think about it, could kyo-ani possibly make 1.5 episode suddenly just to fit in the material?

For now, I just hope that the next episode doesn't split this arc into another episode. Disaster.

[MeoTwister5]

Edit - Blargh. Moot issue.

[Proto]

We have a thread for speculation for future episode gentlemen. Please use that.

[Forestyan]

I like how they payed attention to small details in this episode. In the previous episodes we saw his mailbox with names Nagisa and Tomoya Okazaki, but in this episode has been torn off. It saddens me how destructive to himself he has become, surley this is not what Nagisa wanted.

[Marina2]

Ushio surely look like Nagisa more than in visual novel.

She's look like Nagisa in SD mode, So cute!!

[Sinestra]

I must admit that Ushio is just god awfully cute i mean damn so cute i think i actually awwwww every time they showed her face. Even the way they managed to do her speech just like a 5 year old. She is the spiting image of Nagisa but i notice a bit of Tomoya's personality in her. I think what Sanae did was and is the best thing for both of them. Some has to snap Tomoya out of this life damaging funk or he never will and HE WILL become his father and regreat having never known his daughter. This is not what Nagisa would have wanted.

Ushio probably does not know that Tomoya is her father but kids have an uncanny way of knowing more than we give them credit for. Ushio obviously feels drawn to Tomoya if she did not then she would have tried to do things so he would praise her like her telling him she went potty by herself. Some made her want to impress this person and go on a trip with him. '

Ushio is 5 years still at an age where she could bond with Tomoya and he could still be a father to her. It will just take time and Tomoya opening his heart again. After all Ushio is the culmination of his and Nagisa love the ultimate product of love. I have faith that Tomoya will avoid the same trap his father fell into and become a good father with help.

Sanae kind of creep me out at the restaurant but she has always been carefree like that so her joking around about liking younger men was funny to me. As was her phone call over and over till Tomoya answered the way she wanted. Sanae is gorgeous and scary all in one package. BTW she never ages ah the power of anime.

Great episode still depressing a little but a ray of light.

[SwiftStrike]

I guess i guessed wrong; Ushio is a girl.
wonder what it woulda turned out if Ushio was a boy. not shy perhaps?

[Justin Kim]

Lol well aren't kids usually born shy? Like you need to nurture them to be confident, but not overly-boastful of their winnings?

[Proto]

wonder what it woulda turned out if Ushio was a boy. not shy perhaps?

Sexual differences in personality, other than those imposed by education only arise till puberty.

[Tempester]

I guess i guessed wrong; Ushio is a girl.
wonder what it woulda turned out if Ushio was a boy. not shy perhaps?

Sexual differences in personality, other than those imposed by education only arise till puberty.

Haha if Ushio was a boy he would still be super-cute, but would be more obnoxious, act like a shounen anime protagonist, and would rip up the toy given to him. :heh:

[king12354]

ROFL. I didn't watch after story yet, I just downloaded ep 17 to take a glimps of Ushio :heh:

If you wanted to see a glimpse of Ushio, you should've just watched the first ep. of clannad.

[achirist]

This episode was just awful. At least in the film version they showed scenes of his life after Nagisa's death, of his friends trying to console him, of his lifelessness and avoidance. The fact that this series couldn't even be serious enough to show a meaningful aftermath of Nagisa's death before going into "cute comedy" with ushio is the last straw for me.

[Zenemis]

Someone who's "clicking" with the series won't need it shown onscreen; they'd be able to empathize well enough with the characters to know just how much of an impact Nagisa's death had on them.

[Freya]

Aww I'm scared with how Clannads going to end. Hope its at least a happy one.

[VRMN]

This episode was just awful. At least in the film version they showed scenes of his life after Nagisa's death, of his friends trying to console him, of his lifelessness and avoidance. The fact that this series couldn't even be serious enough to show a meaningful aftermath of Nagisa's death before going into "cute comedy" with ushio is the last straw for me.

I feel it necessary to point out that the way KyoAni did it is faithful to the original work, which also did not dwell on Nagisa's death before fast forwarding to the Ushio arc. This is replicating the story very faithfully to this point, something the film did not do really at any point. Though I do think it's possible that some things will be altered because of the differences between the VN and anime versions of Clannad (the latter being wherein the Nagisa arc is not in a bubble). Either way, there were maybe 30 lines of text from Nagisa's death until Sanae's "date" with Tomoya in the visual novel.

[Klashikari]

This episode was just awful. At least in the film version they showed scenes of his life after Nagisa's death, of his friends trying to console him, of his lifelessness and avoidance. The fact that this series couldn't even be serious enough to show a meaningful aftermath of Nagisa's death before going into "cute comedy" with ushio is the last straw for me.
That was the movie mistake: you can't have friends to be conveniently there where things are for the worst.

And I believe you are missing the point: even if Ushio was shown cute and all, it gave a huge emphasis on how the relationship between her and Tomoya is almost inexistent. Tomoya most of the time felt completely indifferent and rather displeased to take care of "troublesome" task he has to do out of duty, not out of parental feelings.
The serious aftermath is shown: Tomoya get through 5 years of shitty life, just being a reckless workholic, feeling his boring everyday with alcohol, tabacco and gambling. If you add a borderline inexistent bound between him and Ushio, it pretty much show how serious and terrible Tomoya became after Nagisa's death. You don't need an emo character to realize he is destroyed. Their actions and behaviour can be enough to conclude they are mere shadows of themselves.

And this is actually the start of development for both, while the Movie butchered it to DEATH it was not even funny.

[Forestyan]

If you wanted to see a glimpse of Ushio, you should've just watched the first ep. of clannad.

Hold on, what?

EDIT: Oh, i see it now

[Justin Kim]

I think overall, Tomoya can be stubborn-_-, he always is really "moody." Although all of his friends try their best to help him out.

[DragoZERO]

If you wanted to see a glimpse of Ushio, you should've just watched the first ep. of clannad.
What? Where?
http://img117.exs.cx/img117/1189/y4tsearch.gif

[KaneDragon]

If you wanted to see a glimpse of Ushio, you should've just watched the first ep. of clannad.
Hold on, what?

EDIT: Oh, i see it now
What? Where?
http://img117.exs.cx/img117/1189/y4tsearch.gif
First ep, second ep, and every other freaking ep.
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1332/snapshot20090210190017tm4.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20090210190017tm4.jpg)
Not that hard. :p

[MeoTwister5]

Gah. Someone says the movie portayed it better than the anime and almost therefore the game, in which the movie almost completely butchered the scenes.

Please let this arc finish before you make silly comparisons.

[Leo_Otaku]

Gah. Someone says the movie portayed it better than the anime and almost therefore the game, in which the movie almost completely butchered the scenes.

Please let this arc finish before you make silly comparisons.

Exactly the movie was really nothing compared to the orginal. It is like some fanfiction story basically.

Yeah and the anime isn't over >.>

[RandomFlameStrike]

Um Achrist? Notice that there are still like 7 eps of AS remaining? Lol for someone to say the movie was better then the anime is really weird. Personally I thought the movie was horrible and butched the source material. (Compareing it to the game)

[MeoTwister5]

It damn better be 7 episodes. I'll be on vacation on the last week of March and might not be able to watch the final episode on time.:(:(:(

[Justin Kim]

Well of course, the movie would have butchered it. I mean if you think about it logically, it's just like reading harry potter books, then going to the movies and pointing out everything they missed. You can't cram a whole lot of episodes in just a little over an hour.

[-Sho-]

Just watch this episode :

OMG WTF ! Raaaaaaa it was unexpected !!! Why Tomoya turn like that ???
Yeah Nagisa is dead but she give birth Ushio his daughter !!! And now what ? Tomoya is like his father .... he smoke , play , just work and sleep . He didn't care about Ushio .... yeah its hard for him to occupy Ushio alone but sometimes he can go see Ushio and play with her !!!
-10 for Tomoya , i look him like a shity guy now . If Nagisa is here like a ghost she will probably get mad very mad !!!!

Well after putting my anger on him !
Ushio was cute ^^ She's like Nagisa :) (specially in the end XD )
Tomoya is too stupid ... she's his daughter omg !
I hope the travel will move closer the father - daughter relation but it seems in the next episode Tomoya will be upset !
Title : "The ends of the worlds" I think its the world with the little girl with the robot and the world now .

(The speed is more faster than Eyeshield 21 NFL )

[SeedFreedom]

I delayed watching episode 16 and its a good thing i did. Now i could just watch the following Ushio episode without having to wait a week.

Seeing Tomoya like that is kinda painful, but still not completely unjustified. Hes gone through a lot too and he seems lifeless now. It doesn't mean he should have acted how he did, but its a little more understandable.

I've heard a few comments on how horrible it was that Tomoya smoked around Ushio. I am fully against smoking around children, but still it was a single cigarette. I think it got a little too overblown.

Seems like we have'nt seen the worst of Tomoya yet from the preview. Wonder when the rest of the gang will jump in to try and help him, and im missing Tomoyo.

[Ithekro]

One considers that Akio probably smokes around Ushio.

[Justin Kim]

One considers that Akio probably smokes around Ushio.
Lol I think he does? It's so hard to remember, since he's playing baseball like every freaking day.:twitch:

[Proto]

It's mere speculation, nothing concrete has been shown in the seiries as of well, considering he didn't appeared at all during last episode.

[Bonta Kun]

I just got round to catching up with this series and altho I'm torn up about Nagisa

when Ushio appeared I went O~M~G she is just tooooo cute!!!

it left me with rather mixed feelings on what I just watched and what came next