Clannad ~After Story~ - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[motaku96]

It brought a tear to my eye. Oh and Ushio is just too cute.

[germanturkey]

who the heck can vote this ep a 1/10... by far the most powerful episode in the series, and arguably of this season. Ushio is criminally cute. like, its ridiculous. her VA does such a good job portraying a child.

there were multiple stages of qq-ness in this ep.
1. he admitted that his dad was a good father
2. when Ushio said it was the first thing he bought her
3. when Ushio said the other place Sanae said she could cry (omg, i died there)
4. when Ushio started crying when she saw Tomoya cry on the train ride back

i didn't find his recounting of Nagisa sad, but Ushio's reaction definitely got me... man, i haven't teared up this much because of an anime in a long long time..

[Myssa Rei]

That just makes me wonder how evil you have to be to do this to your characters. I'm not sure I'd have the balls to do that to my own creations.

Welcome to the mind of Jun Maeda.

Every player who's given the chance to become the DM for a change will inevitably be faced with the temptation of running a RPG session like an iron-fisted tyrant, and fudge things to make things turn out how you want it. Some resist. Many give in.

[Freya]

who the heck can vote this ep a 1/10... by far the most powerful episode in the series, and arguably of this season. Ushio is criminally cute. like, its ridiculous. her VA does such a good job portraying a child.

there were multiple stages of qq-ness in this ep.
1. he admitted that his dad was a good father
2. when Ushio said it was the first thing he bought her
3. when Ushio said the other place Sanae said she could cry (omg, i died there)
4. when Ushio started crying when she saw Tomoya cry on the train ride back

i didn't find his recounting of Nagisa sad, but Ushio's reaction definitely got me... man, i haven't teared up this much because of an anime in a long long time..

Pretty crazy huh? 42 year old woman doing a little girls VA? Never expected that.


Hey does anyone know the tv schedule for the widescreen of the episodes?

[germanturkey]

wide screen releases are usually 2 to 3 weeks behind the normal screen releases.

[Evayo]

I'm so happy the series is not following the movie. The movie's ending was sad in its own way, and I'll admit it got me a teensy bit teary-eyed. But this portrayal of Tomoya actually getting to spend some time with his daughter is just so much more emotional.

It gives him time to truly come to terms with the life he abandoned, and gives him another chance.

~:Evayo:~

[Spectacular_Insanity]

I'm so happy the series is not following the movie. The movie's ending was sad in its own way, and I'll admit it got me a teensy bit teary-eyed. But this portrayal of Tomoya actually getting to spend some time with his daughter is just so much more emotional.

It gives him time to truly come to terms with the life he abandoned, and gives him another chance.

~:Evayo:~

I agree, though I did find it interesting that in this version vs. the movie version no one ever made the connection (out loud) that Tomoya had become like his father. It was quite heavily inferred during Tomoya and Shino's conversation, but no one ever actually said it, which I found, well, odd to say the least.

I think the happiest moment was when Tomoya and Ushio are on the train at the end of the episode and Ushio starts crying after Tomoya does. It was really touching, and probably my favorite moment for those two. I felt that it was proof that they had finally connected emotionally after all those years apart.

[Pellissier]

Pretty crazy huh? 42 year old woman doing a little girls VA? Never expected that.
The great thing is that the seiyuu is wonderful. The odd thing (if there's one) is that Koorogi Satomi was the seiyuu of the little cat Chi from Chi's Sweet Home (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=9234) , and since she's basically using the very same tones of voices, I can't help but to associate Ushio to the little lovely cat. But the story is so absorbing that it is the smallest of all details.

Simple sentences would fail to describe this episode. I actually think that no words, not even the usual trite superlatives could make justice to what I've seen in these 20 minutes. On par and maybe better than episode 16, probably one of the most valuable anime momentum I've seen in my life, taking into account either the parallelism Okazaki Naoyuki / Okazaki Tomoya (for how well the drama was done, somehow Morita's story in Honey & Clover II episode 7 came to mind), either the two very powerful scenes at the end between father and daughter. I can't deny that tears were difficult to contain whereas Tomoya and Ushio reached their empathy. Nagisa's memory is being well used, not too much and in the right spots. Absolutely heartwarming.

I'm glad to be witnessing such a beautiful life portrait, which is very likely to enter my all time favourites restricted list.

[C.A.]

This was a really nice episode.

At first I thought I would be crying after I felt a little teary when Ushio said the mech was important because its the first thing from Tomoya.

But then I realised that everything is more happy than anything, Tomoya finally accepting Ushio. I guess I didn't cry because it was a happy event.

[Sheba]

Welcome to the mind of Jun Maeda.

Every player who's given the chance to become the DM for a change will inevitably be faced with the temptation of running a RPG session like an iron-fisted tyrant, and fudge things to make things turn out how you want it. Some resist. Many give in.
It gets funnier when the players comes back for MOAR.
It's a matter of being a ruthless tyrant but fair enough to not turn away players. As Limyaael (http://coyotecult.com/communities/sfandf_critters/references/limyaael.php) put it in one of her rants, a journey is more compelling if we see the involved characters suffering through it. Should there be a happy ending, they MUST earn it.

[Ithekro]

Sometimes you have to be the evil GM/DM. Especially if you are intentionally writing out a character (player stopped playing, or lost his sheet, doesn't like that character), and the dice betray you. (Think Star War (WEG) and two termal detonators and exploding small arms fire at point blank range against a simply armored bounty hunter with a skill point and a force points added....and the results come back "incapacitated"? (24D damage verse 5D+2 strength) Hell no.)

One wonders what happens next...but that will have to wait until later this week I suppose. We know they got home and meet the Furukawas for sure.

[Divini]

Quick side note:

As of this time of posting, there's more people that voted a '10' for this episode than the total amount of people that voted in the last episode. :eek:

[Tsuchirinhon]

I'm going to be completely unoriginal by admitting that I cried like a blubbering fool during this episode.

Then again, CLANNAD, in general, has made me cry more times than anything else I can think of, anime or otherwise.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Somebody compare this bit to Grey's Anatomy while I was away? The heck, that's hardly a fair comparison seeing as Grey's Anatomy is rather generic nightime TV fair. That' s like putting the Toronto Maple Leafs up against the Calgary Flames. Sure the format is the same, but one just doesn't compare to the other. At least chose a good comparison like BSG or something from HBO. Something with some actual heart that's not just glib remark followed by witty comeback followed by awkward dialogue followed by Sandra Oh's character being
a bitch again.

What else was interesting....let's see....ummm yeah with regard to that Clannad being Clannad post, I think it's more just Key being Key in their neverending quest to create the ultimate crying scenario that will sell itself based on the raw emotion it will illcit alone. That they did, right here, this past week and there's really no way to deny it, even if I couldn't share in the moment as much as others since I'm such an iceman. Though I will admit that there are things that can make me cry, it's just they are usually limited to classic tragedy. You know.....the kind wherein a man or woman of respectable honor and virtue is laid low by a character flaw that is ultimately inseperable from that quality which makes us admire them in the first place. That works on me. That's also sort of why Nagisa's death had a reasonable effect on me since I liked her, but I didn't cry because her death wasn't really a tragedy, it was just unfortunate.

Anyway, looks like I didn't win my bet. :(

[RandomFlameStrike]

Yeah, it was up there for awhile, but as time went by a the votes started diversifying. Still you can't really justify giving this a one x.x a 7 or 8 is more reasonable, but 1? heh

[MrSelfDestruct]

I'm pretty late here but I think this was my favorite episode of After Story yet. I was a bit let down with the way Nagisa's death was done and I didn't get nearly as depressed as I thought I was going to. This episode was epic though, it got me closed to tears and made me moegasm over Ushio at the same time.

I reeaaally look forward to the next episode.

[Proto]

Anyway, looks like I didn't win my bet.

When the posts reached 130 votes the 10's had almost reached 97%. After that is when it started going downwards. Partly the fault of a single person who registered multiple times just to vote things other than 10's :p

[Nosauz]

Somebody compare this bit to Grey's Anatomy while I was away? The heck, that's hardly a fair comparison seeing as Grey's Anatomy is rather generic nightime TV fair. That' s like putting the Toronto Maple Leafs up against the Calgary Flames. Sure the format is the same, but one just doesn't compare to the other. At least chose a good comparison like BSG or something from HBO. Something with some actual heart that's not just glib remark followed by witty comeback followed by awkward dialogue followed by Sandra Oh's character being
a bitch again.

What else was interesting....let's see....ummm yeah with regard to that Clannad being Clannad post, I think it's more just Key being Key in their neverending quest to create the ultimate crying scenario that will sell itself based on the raw emotion it will illcit alone. That they did, right here, this past week and there's really no way to deny it, even if I couldn't share in the moment as much as others since I'm such an iceman. Though I will admit that there are things that can make me cry, it's just they are usually limited to classic tragedy. You know.....the kind wherein a man or woman of respectable honor and virtue is laid low by a character flaw that is ultimately inseperable from that quality which makes us admire them in the first place. That works on me. That's also sort of why Nagisa's death had a reasonable effect on me since I liked her, but I didn't cry because her death wasn't really a tragedy, it was just unfortunate.

Anyway, looks like I didn't win my bet. :(

Well, comparing animation vs live is a really hard thing, because with animation sacrificing a real connectable self for the flexibility of portraying different emotion on a whim is sometimes more beneficial when it comes to acting and talent. And when you look at shows such as GA, your looking at a bloated cast that probably needs more culling than CG R2 so there are inherent flaws in both medium but I think the faults in animation are slightly easier to overcome then those that deal with live action, or scripted television. On the note of grey's anatomy, its really a decent show, but I find it's new disease of the week so episodic that it just can't stand up to house who does the episodic content so much better. Also ps, all teams suck compared to the Cannucks.

[Gundampilotspaz]

This felt like the last episode of the series. That scares me. I can only assume that the show will be 24 or 25 episodes long and now with the "I hate myself" and "terrible father" Tomoya resolved I'm not sure what's left for Clannad. It seemed to be resolved a little too quickly.

Granted,. I didn't think they'd be much left for Clannad after Tomoya graduated high school and I was very wrong on that point.

[Nosauz]

This felt like the last episode of the series. That scares me. I can only assume that the show will be 24 or 25 episodes long and now with the "I hate myself" and "terrible father" Tomoya resolved I'm not sure what's left for Clannad. It seemed to be resolved a little too quickly.

Granted,. I didn't think they'd be much left for Clannad after Tomoya graduated high school and I was very wrong on that point.

yep, this is based off a game, the game is split into two parts, though part one is school life and is considerably longer considering the multiple life, the part we are in is after life, specifically the after life between tomoya and nagisa, so this part like the previous part is focued on family. There is plenty of more content to finish up the serious, and all of it is really good tear inducing stuff unless your name Kaoshin Sama for he has evolved further than us weak cryers. But yea it will be one hell of a ride till the end

[OmegaPhlare]

Could there be some kind of Omake episode? Like episodes 23 and 24 or Clannad? I think it would be a stretch for this series to continue unless they introduce a new conflict; which I guess maybe they will do.

I think it would be fantastic if they did some fan service episode set in an alternate time line, like those Moonknives artworks from the image thread which show Nagisa taking care of Ushio. Maybe it isn't his intent to make up an alternate time line, but only to show that Nagisa is still with the family, in spirit. Still, it looks nice.

I know that a fan service episode will give the haters an opportunity to bitch about the show, but I feel like I'd really like to see at least some personal interaction between Nagisa and her daughter before the show is over; even if it isn't real... Imagery like the cover for the Clannad OST (Nagisa holding Ushio) is so powerful, right?

[Kaioshin Sama]

When the posts reached 130 votes the 10's had almost reached 97%. After that is when it started going downwards. Partly the fault of a single person who registered multiple times just to vote things other than 10's :p

There's been an abnormally large response to this episode in terms of that poll so I think it's safe to say that quite a few new registers were probably made to participate in this one. I notice quite a few day old members among the ten voters too. It's just one of those things that gets some people fired up I guess.

[Myssa Rei]

Sheba and Kaisos: Ha ha, I think we lost the majority of the other forumites with our RPG talk.

Still, the 'Dirty Cheating DM' comparison does apply in this case though. Jun Maeda, and KEY for that matter, seem to have really mastered the art of setting up circumstances to really tug at your heartstrings... Or to quote a friend, grab your heart, then give it a 150000 lbs/si squeeze. The thing is, getting to the heartwarming scene involved many a fudged roll, inescapable and ridiculously-difficult encounter, and biased house-ruling. Never mind increasing roll DCs by 10 instead of just 5...

[Sheba]

Though I will admit that there are things that can make me cry, it's just they are usually limited to classic tragedy. You know.....the kind wherein a man or woman of respectable honor and virtue is laid low by a character flaw that is ultimately inseperable from that quality which makes us admire them in the first place. That works on me.



This only means that you are not going to find it in Clannad, just like how I am never going to find in Gundam things similar to military drama like american and european classics or politic thrillers like in the british series State of Play or movies like the Manchurian Candidate. Clannad is just Clannad, not the Deer Hunter.

And Tomoya is not a man of respectable virtue, no matter how one can look deeply into it.

[Beo]

Maybe voting should be limited to accounts older than a week or so.

[typhonsentra]

Yeah, it was up there for awhile, but as time went by a the votes started diversifying. Still you can't really justify giving this a one x.x a 7 or 8 is more reasonable, but 1? heh

I gave my reason and stand by it.

[Myssa Rei]

Neglecting the fact that you initially said it was an accident? :)

CLANNAD is NOT High Drama, not by a long shot. However, it does know when to apply just the right emotional pressure at the right time.

[DragoZERO]

Forgive my ignorance, but what's a high drama?

[Myssa Rei]

DragoZERO: Classical Drama if you will. Sorry, my Post-Grad's infusing my vocabulary with writer's slang.

[Nosauz]

are you refering to classical drama in the sense of literary classics such as Oedipus Rex, or Macbeth, dramas in the shakesperian sense which can be considered classical? I'm just curious because classical drama is actually quite vague, some people refer to dallas as classical drama, god knows why but I've heard that stated before so please elaborate

[typhonsentra]

Neglecting the fact that you initially said it was an accident? :)

Well yeah. It was a mistake to click it at the time, I hadn't seen it yet. But I would've given it the same score had I had the chance to see it at the time.

[Proto]

Hmm... I did see that you had a lot of problems with the story, however technically wise you didn't comment anything. Art direction, sound direction, voice acting, storyboarding, animation. Where all of those worse than other things you've scored higher?

[typhonsentra]

A score doesn't have to be an average. And something can have good production values and still be subpar because of poor story implementation/writing. Xam'd is a good example of this.

[Proto]

Hmm... then do you grade things using a ponderated average rather than a equally weighted one? Now you made me curious. In that case, which are the qualities of a story than in your opinion have a higher value when evaluating a series?

[Myssa Rei]

are you refering to classical drama in the sense of literary classics such as Oedipus Rex, or Macbeth, dramas in the shakesperian sense which can be considered classical?

To answer that would be detracting from the topic. It is enough to say though that your two examples are Classical Drama.

Proto: Now now, let's not bait the fellow.

[RandomFlameStrike]

Hmm... then do you grade things using a ponderated average rather than a equally weighted one? Now you made me curious. In that case, which are the qualities of a story than in your opinion have a higher value when evaluating a series?

That's a good point. But there's no set criteria to judge an episode in this voteing system. It's just pick what you feel. If you choose to take into account art, animation quality, etc then all the better for you. Unfortunatly this can lead to some people voteing 1's just to troll or etc and one can't do a thing about it heh.

@Typhon
Yeah I wasn't really insulting you for voteing one. Although I do believe that your interperation is wrong and Tomoya's reaction is understandable/realistic in it's own way. Personally I think it should be atleast rated average. However since it's a matter of opinions and personal views (EX: Relating Tomoya's actions to what you would do) there isn't much to debate haha.

[typhonsentra]

Usually I try to weigh the merits of a show the way you described in your previous post but there are times where a certain element overrides the rest in how I feel about a program/specific episode for better or worse. In this episode it was a combination of my dislike for Tomoya and his relationship with his father (Again, I talked about it a few pages back)

Another major pet peeve of mine is flimsy excuses a director uses to get to certain plot points (Call it the "I just knew... somehow" device). I mean, how did the grandmother know he'd come by? How'd he know to go there? He had a distant memory of the place from his childhood?

[Proto]

Another major pet peeve of mine is flimsy excuses a director uses to get to certain plot points (Call it the "I just knew... somehow" device). I mean, how did the grandmother know he'd come by? How'd he know to go there? He had a distant memory of the place from his childhood?

Hmmm... i that's the case then it was indirectly explained in the anime, and in the game we got some more details.

Elder Okazaki did mention that Sanae had told her that Tomoya would come by that spot, so all she had to do was to wait. The only additional detail we had in the game was that Sanae had written and left Tomoya an itinerary of the trip, complete with tickets. The only problem was that they were a day behind but it seems that elder Okazaki didn't have much to do anyway so she waited there nevertheless. :p

Of course the itinerary only said flower field, so betting that Tomoya would take the extra step to go up the hill was the only chance element here.

[Sheba]

He had a distant memory of the place from his childhood?

Shit like that happens, especially for people who has a special place or special something in their childhood. It's similar to suddenly remember that particular song or this seat one used to sit on in grade school. It's not that contrived as some seems to make it to be.

[typhonsentra]

Hmmm... i that's the case then it was indirectly explained in the anime, and in the game we got some more details.

Elder Okazaki did mention that Sanae had told her that Tomoya would come by that spot, so all she had to do was to wait. The only additional detail we had in the game was that Sanae had written and left Tomoya an itinerary of the trip, complete with tickets. The only problem was that they were a day behind but it seems that elder Okazaki didn't have much to do anyway so she waited there nevertheless. :p

Of course the itinerary only said flower field, so betting that Tomoya would take the extra step to go up the hill was the only chance element here.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Shit like that happens, especially for people who has a special place or special something in their childhood. It's similar to suddenly remember that particular song or this seat one used to sit on in grade school. It's not that contrived as some seems to make it to be.

Yeah but the other characters were counting on Tomoya to just all of a sudden decide to visit a certain location he may or may not remember from his childhood.

I probably seem like I'm nitpicking on this one though, I'll admit. It's a pretty standard anime convention (Fate, distant memories, yadda yadda yadda) that you have to accept to enjoy the genre, same as the old "The church is secretly teh eval!" in JRPGs.

[Reckoner]

I love the voting Nazis that kyo ani produces, if someone wants to rate an episode a 1 or a 10, who cares? What's important is what the episode meant to you, not them.

[Justin Kim]

I love the voting Nazis that kyo ani produces, if someone wants to rate an episode a 1 or a 10, who cares? What's important is what the episode meant to you, not them. Aren't we now providing more spoilers for future "sneak - peak" thread clickers? Reckoner's right. It doesn't matter what literary device KyoAni is really implying here. (Heck they can use any literary device at their disposal and we wouldn't probably have guessed the one they were using the whole time. Not saying their manipulative or anything). Back to the point, what really matters is how you perceive the information your receiving through what your watching. As Reckoner said earlier, it is definently what the episode meant to you regardless of all the past episodes.:twitch:

[Goshin]

this is such a beautiful story, I started watching clannad at 5PM yersterday, i just caught up, have not slept yet,

[RandomFlameStrike]

Hmmm... i that's the case then it was indirectly explained in the anime, and in the game we got some more details.

Elder Okazaki did mention that Sanae had told her that Tomoya would come by that spot, so all she had to do was to wait. The only additional detail we had in the game was that Sanae had written and left Tomoya an itinerary of the trip, complete with tickets. The only problem was that they were a day behind but it seems that elder Okazaki didn't have much to do anyway so she waited there nevertheless. :p

Of course the itinerary only said flower field, so betting that Tomoya would take the extra step to go up the hill was the only chance element here.

Wait, in the game didn't Sanae tell Tomoya in the note to specifically go up the steps too? It's been awhile since I read so I don't remeber too well.

[Guardian Enzo]

I would consider that a "best of Clannad at it's worst" episode. After the refreshingly understated and subtle 17, we're back in full-on emotional sledgehammer mode. That said, it was certainly involving in spite of that, if you have anything invested in the characters. I prefer the series in slowdown mode when it comes to the heart-tugging, but it was nice to see Tomoya's father as the device for his self-examination (that's as it should have been) even if he did forgive him much too quickly. And you can't deny Ushio is darn cute, and pleasantly implacable for a small child, for the most part.

[Tiran86]

I've never really cried at stories like this, and this episode was no exception, but damn what an emotional ride. Without a doubt in my mind, episode 18 is the best episode Clannad has offered so far. I think its at least as good, if not better than the best of Kanon, which is one of my top 10 anime. I don't think its pushed the series itself as high up as Kanon, but episode 18 is one of the best episodes of anime I've ever seen.

[darry]

can anyone post the whole scene in romaji(not sure if it was called that ^^) at the End when Tomoya starts talking to Ushio until it ends ? :D


Cant wait for Episode 19 like to see the Father-Son Conversation if there is one

[FreshLeafTea]

this series was amazing the ending of this episode was a mixed feeling ='(
happiness and sadness was put into this episode which had made this very interesting

[-Sho-]

Just watch this episode :

Omg , first time since several years for an anime i drop some tears so perfect episode!
Tomoya x Ushio was so great when they cried ! Gladly , Tomoya found the good way !
His father wasn't bad ! but still wondering like Tomoya said , why he forgot everything about the good moments with his father . Tomoya now is a real dad .

I didn't saw the movie , someone can say to me what is the end ?

[Proto]

but still wondering like Tomoya said , why he forgot everything about the good moments with his father

Have you never been really, really angry with someone? Like, in, stay away from my life angry ô_o


I didn't saw the movie , someone can say to me what is the end ?

Well, that would have to be asked and answered in the movie thread :p

[destiny4everlove]

Episode 18

-Ushio is so very cute!!http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi00.gif

-I found Akio teaching Ushio baseball and Ushio showing it so adorable! :blush:

-Tomoya screaming at that child reminded me of how much I used to hate adults yelling when I was a child, and even now I still don’t like it. Poor Ushio she was so scared when Tomoya yelled at that kid. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Sad/sad-048.gif

-Ushio playing with that robot reminded me of the girl in the imaginary world so very much!! In fact, now I’m 98% sure that the girl in the imaginary world is not Nagisa but Ushio!!

-When Tomoya said “it’s dark, be careful” I was internally screaming: "Tomoya you fool, go with Ushio, don’t let her go alone to the restroom!!" http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi05.gif So I was relieved when the next scene showed Tomoya going with Ushio to the restroom.

-Tomoya carrying Ushio on his shoulders really touched my heart. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Happy/happy-096.gif

-That is Tomoya’s grandma!!! :twitch: I wasn’t expecting this at all!! :twitch:

-The conversation between Tomoya and his grandma was so heartbreakinghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi04.gif; it truly had me on the verge of tears. Sometimes in life when we are mad at someone, we tend to focus only on the negatives things about that person and forget the good things that said person did in the past, just like Tomoya did with his father. So it was nice to see Shino reminding Tomoya that his father was not an alcoholic all his life, that at some point in his life he was a good man and that he did try his best to raise Tomoya and be a good father to him. The conversation with Shino also let Tomoya realize that what his father went through was not easy at all, but even so he chose to do the best he could, he chose not to push Tomoya away; he chose to try to overcome his great sadness, all for the sake of his son. Too bad alcohol got in the way and that it became stronger than Tomoya’s dad's good intentions. I also liked how that conversation showed just how immense the love of a mother for her child can be, Shino knows that her son has done some foolish things but she still loves him no matter what, and moreover she wants him to be by her side. That conversation made me feel very sad for Tomoya’s dad. :(


-Props to Sanae for planning this journey, she is a very wise woman indeed. :)

-Tomoya and Ushio’s conversation broke my heart to pieces http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi32.gif; it was so touching and beautiful! Ushio explaining to Tomoya why the robot was so important to her, Tomoya realizing how much his baby girl has been needing him, Tomoya asking Ushio if it was ok to be with him, Ushio saying that she wanted for him to be with her too, Ushio explaining that the other place she could cry was in daddy’ arms, Tomoya and Ushio crying while hugging each other and last but not least Tomoya apologizing to Ushio, I loved all of those moments so much!!!http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi01.gif I was so close to cry after watching that scene. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi04.gif

-Tomoya finally telling Ushio about Nagisa was so beautiful and touching!!http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Sad/sad-049.gif It made me miss Nagisa so much!!!http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi32.gif And the last scene was so perfect, seeing the three of them together really made me wish Nagisa was still alive!!!

-I’m so glad Tomoya has finally decided to really become Ushio’s father and start treating her as his little daughter and not as a stranger.http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Manga/japanese-021.gif The Tomoya that I love has returned!!!http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Manga/devil-026.gif Yay!!http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/tina_0205/monkey%20emoticon/khi30.gif

[Anime Daisuki]

10/10. No complaints whatsoever.

[Ryuou]

I had to come back to this and say that this episode was definately one of the, if not the, best episode I have ever seen. Very well done.

[Viters]

11/10. Key's best production. I cried ;p

That was very sadness moment, when Tomoya's grandmother told him about his father, and when Ushio told "Tell me about mommy"...

[DJLowrider]

My apologies for being so late to this party. I'm a long time watcher of CLANNAD and After Story and I've lurked on the forums for some time now. I put off watching 18 because the previous couple episodes had been such a bitter pill to swallow. However I just finished watching it earlier today and I'm compelled to comment.

I, myself, am a father blessed with two children: a son who's just turned 4 months old and a daughter who is about to turn 4 years old, almost as old as Ushio. My wife and I are happily married and we love our children dearly. So for me, watching After Story has been largely an affirmation of my own feelings about family and its utmost importance.

I started watching 18 with the same observance I have so far, expecting a good episode but clenching my teeth at Tomoya's brusqueness towards Ushio. Learning about Naoyuki's past and what he went through, I could see the gears turning in Tomoya's mind as he grasped the parallel with his own life so far. Then he returned to Ushio in the field and talked to her about her toy again.

And then it happened. Two sets of lines from Ushio I will never forget.

1) "There's only one . . . It's the one you chose and bought for me. First thing from Daddy."

2) "Daddy...you know....is it all right not to hold it in anymore? Sanae-san told me...places I can cry are in the bathroom...and in Daddy's arms."

I couldn't hold back the tears then and I can't even now as I write this. Maybe it's because I'm a father myself that this affects me even more, but I watched this and knew...this is family. This is what's important. Everything else is details.

I've seen emotional scenes in anime before, as well as other movies and TV series and felt moved, but none of them evoked such strong emotions from me so quickly and easily as this did. It is, in not so many words, brilliantly executed. And I find myself looking forward to getting home to my family so I can hug each and every one of them and remind them how much I appreciate them and how deeply I love them all.

Bravo to KyoAni for this utterly amazing anime and this episode especially.

[mouhitori]

While the series (including first season) has been rather underwhelming sometimes (due to great expectations, no doubt), this episode is truly beyond expectations...

I'm really wondering what lies ahead though....I was predicting the reconciliation would be pretty much the end of the story.

[kayote]

there has only been a handful of times that i felt like crying or actully cried, and in thsi ep i was teary throughout. it was just sooooooo sad.when she tells him about the toy and how he bought it for her, there are no words for how sad and happy i was. a tear came down.

and Ushio is just the cutest child.

[Forever]

These days I am too lazy to vote, but for this episode have been superb in bringing out the emotions within me. More touching than Marley and Me. 10/10

[Proto]

I keep crying like a baby every other day that I decide to re watch this episode. I guess it's because it touches very particular strings within me, but this episode has become like my little personal catharsis.

[DeX-kun]

I keep crying like a baby every other day that I decide to re watch this episode. I guess it's because it touches very particular strings within me, but this episode has become like my little personal catharsis.

For some reason I can't stand to re-watch a single episode, so whenever I have an opportunity, I actually marathon the whole series but it's emotionally draining :p Especially episode 18, such a beautiful episode and it's also a huge development episode for Tomoya.

[Tak]

The emotional impact of Clannad can be illustrated in this manner:

Lets just say you've got a brand new box of Kleenex, but by the time you finished both seasons, you've got half left.

- Tak

[typhonsentra]

I know I talked about it before but given now that we now all know how it ends, I just can't understand how anyone can look at this episode and feel emotionally attached given how the show treats this portion of the story...

as nothing more than a dream sequence. That killed it for me. It's a lot like in School Rumble how once you know that anytime there was storyline progression you knew it'd turn out to be another daydream/comic book story by Harima. Yeah they showed the story but they took everything back at the end of the arc so it didn't really matter. I hate these "What if?" stories, total cop-out.

[Proto]

I just can't understand how anyone can look at this episode and feel emotionally attached given how the show treats this portion of the story...

Is that a recursive question/answer? In any case, whatever is your interpretation, this episode stands in its own right.

Whether you see the ending as a reset, as a quantum multiuniverse space continuum or as a KEY miracle, for me the whole reason of CLANNAD's existence is ep 18 of AS, so... this' this, that's that. Moreover, if you accept the ending not as a dream, but... oh well, let's not drag the ending discussion here; you know what I am referring to, and how that interpretation would make this episode much more meaningful.

[Ithekro]

You seemed too focused on what you consider a negative aspect elsewhere in the series that shouldn't have any impact on how this episode makes you feel.

But then, you stated your views on this long before you saw the ending. You didn't care for the manipulative nature of the drama to our emotion. Nothing has changed.

Just accept it for what it is. It's Clannad. Nothing more, nothing less.

[typhonsentra]

Well they do say towards the end of the recap that to Tomoya it's a distant memory so yeah, it was a "Dream". In other words, he didn't take anything from his experiences in the alternate timeline.

As for viewing the episode on it's own, I dunno. Maybe if they didn't foreshadow so heavily that Nagisa was alive I would've enjoyed it more but the way this storyline was set up it just felt insignificant because they never left any doubt that Nagisa was safe and that they were going to reset everything in the end. Tomoya is a character that's dealing with grief in this episode but... not really. You know what I mean?

[Ithekro]

No. I don't really. Mainly because from what I saw in the recap, it did effect him and how he is, otherwise he would have come to a different conclusion at the end of his story.

No matter how it ends...this is still considered the most powerful episode of the two seasons.

[dgreater1]

I know I talked about it before but given now that we now all know how it ends, I just can't understand how anyone can look at this episode and feel emotionally attached given how the show treats this portion of the story...

as nothing more than a dream sequence. That killed it for me. It's a lot like in School Rumble how once you know that anytime there was storyline progression you knew it'd turn out to be another daydream/comic book story by Harima. Yeah they showed the story but they took everything back at the end of the arc so it didn't really matter. I hate these "What if?" stories, total cop-out.

Theory of Everything that deals with Multiverse is a widely accepted theory whether you want to accept it or not. You can't delude yourself forever by claiming that everything is but a dream because everything did happen in the other world. Didn't you go to the Discussion and Interpretation to do some research? You can't also claim that they didn't give enough hints about the other world (not just the Illusionary World but other worlds as well). Episode 16 of CLANNAD AS had the most heavy implication about Multiverse. It's the part where the gangs where talking about stuffs in Tomoya's apartment. You probably weren't listening to Kotomi's wholehearted lecture :heh:

[typhonsentra]

Uhh... I didn't say it was actually a dream, I put it in quotation marks in the second post for a reason. But for all intents and purposes it was treated as a dream by the story. It's stated in episode 24, Tomoya is transported to the past (the moment when Nagisa was supposed to die) without any understanding of what happened and no memory of the white world. Nice shot at trying to talk down to me though.

[Proto]

Perception != reality, but still I think that if you want to discuss the ending this is not the appropriate place.

[dgreater1]

Uhh... I didn't say it was actually a dream, I put it in quotation marks in the second post for a reason. But for all intents and purposes it was treated as a dream by the story. It's stated in episode 24, Tomoya is transported to the past (the moment when Nagisa was supposed to die) without any understanding of what happened and no memory of the white world. Nice shot at trying to talk down to me though.

I see your point, because Tomoya felt the incidents in Eps. 16 to Eps. 21 on the Alternate World (where Nagisa lives her labor), you took it as a "Dream Sequence." Kotomi explained that part, she told us that our thoughts are somehow connected to the other worlds at a certain level. I'm not sure if a lot of people also see the connection about that though.

All you have to remember is there are two stories. One is a Sad one, the other is a Happy (probably?) one.

[Dailow]

It's episodes like this that really make me appreciate anime as a medium for story-telling. I think the last time I felt like shedding a tear while watching a movie was when I saw Forrest Gump way back when, and even that wasn't half as powerful as this episode.

Maybe it's because I watched the anime before playing through the VN, but I found the four-second flashback to be much more... emotional (for lack of a better word) than the entire flashback sequence in the VN.

[DeX-kun]

It's episodes like this that really make me appreciate anime as a medium for story-telling. I think the last time I felt like shedding a tear while watching a movie was when I saw Forrest Gump way back when, and even that wasn't half as powerful as this episode.

Maybe it's because I watched the anime before playing through the VN, but I found the four-second flashback to be much more... emotional (for lack of a better word) than the entire flashback sequence in the VN.

Sorry but are you referring to Tomoya's flashback of Nagisa as he was telling the story to Ushio about her? Just want to make sure.

[Dailow]

Sorry but are you referring to Tomoya's flashback of Nagisa as he was telling the story to Ushio about her? Just want to make sure.

Yep. I thought the VN dragged on a little, so the moment lost a bit of its poignancy. Then again, it could also be a result of having a text medium versus a video medium.

[DeX-kun]

Yep. I thought the VN dragged on a little, so the moment lost a bit of its poignancy. Then again, it could also be a result of having a text medium versus a video medium.

I'm inclined to agree with this as well,considering one is influenced by actually watching a character's tears gather up and you can't help but get caught up in the moment versus reading words. It really also depends on the person because I've seen people get choked up reading.

I was moved by that scene as well because I felt like it was something that he needed to get out rather than bottle it up inside. I seem to recall the moment when Ushio went to the bathroom to cry after Tomoya yelled at the other child to be quiet and Tomoya said something like "sometimes you want to cry but you can't." Now I don't remember the exact words but it was something similar to that and I felt that it was important because that meant he had kept it inside for those 5 years. If some were aware of what he said at that time, it reinforces the scene where he starts to cry while telling Ushio about Nagisa.

[Tophi]

10/10....
Best episode IMO

[CrescentWind]

Most memorable episode ever! xD
The flowerfield scene is probably the best scene in the ep full stop xD

[snarf2691]

that was a very touching episode. i think they did a really good job opening up tomoya's eyes to his father and his daughter. im glad he was able to realize that his perceptions were different from what the reality was.

[Khu]

I'ma skip getting the other AS episodes just from reading this thread.

Cos I've already played the game :D

We shall see, we shall see...

Hopefully it'll make me a teary pile of crap too XD

[DeX-kun]

I'ma skip getting the other AS episodes just from reading this thread.

Cos I've already played the game :D

We shall see, we shall see...

Hopefully it'll make me a teary pile of crap too XD

Aw, don't do that. Just watch the whole thing, you might be surprised to see something else you liked. Like I really enjoyed Misae's arc in the anime for some reason.

[Khu]

Too late.

I can't lol anymore though.

T_T

Damn, even without the rest of After Story, that was...

Hot damn. ><;

I'll watch it again with the rest of After Story.

[DeX-kun]

Too late.

I can't lol anymore though.

T_T

Damn, even without the rest of After Story, that was...

Hot damn. ><;

I'll watch it again with the rest of After Story.

Yeah I know, I remember that feeling very well. Well I think the whole After Story is worth a watch but you just watched arguably the best episode in AS.

[Khu]

Hell yes.

And I know it's worth a watch, cos Clannad was worth it too. heh.

And I know the story's good too...