Toradora! - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Pellissier

2009-02-18, 08:26

Welcome to the discussion thread for Toradora!, Episode 20.

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Fran~

2009-02-18, 08:27

Please, stay away from this thread... for you mental health :heh:

wistfulloner

2009-02-18, 08:43

This episode shouldn't be so emotionally draining, since the last one already stole enough of our hearts. I'm expecting a clean-up of last episode's mess. (I don't mean bad episode mess)

But still, really looking forward to it. For the most of us, we're crossing into unknown territory again...

typhonsentra

2009-02-18, 08:46

I remember Roan wrote a synopsis for volume 8 a long time ago but he focused mainly on how it ends. I'm curious and excited to see how they'll handle bringing everyone back together after how the last episode ended.

FireDetei

2009-02-18, 08:51

Not really sure what to make from the forthcoming episode, from the preview Ryuuji seems to be depressed and i take it Minori is trying to act like nothing happened? It's new years day too, so spose most'll be trying for a fresh start?

Fran~

2009-02-18, 08:52

I remember Roan wrote a synopsis for volume 8 a long time ago but he focused mainly on how it ends.
That's why i wrote my previous post. It will be real unavoidable to be spoiled because of the "novel-influence". Spoiler tags could be a help, but still there is people who cant resist to read the spoilers... :heh:

wistfulloner

2009-02-18, 09:07

Kafriel

2009-02-18, 11:27

moshimouse

2009-02-18, 11:35

I see two possible paths for this episode:
1.Ryuuji gets depressed and his friends (except Minori) try to cheer him up but end up depressed too.
2.Things somehow go well and they remain friends but with Ryuuji realizing at the end of the episode that he likes Taiga.

i think option 1 is probably going to happen

but i think it may go along the lines of he acts like nothing happened till the end of the episode and then he breaks down or something

because i think Ryuuji is the type of person to not want to let people know he's hurting or anything and just wants to make everyone else happy

Miles Teg

2009-02-18, 11:58

Kafriel

2009-02-18, 12:05

Too bad they have chosen a third path :D

And that's what makes the episode better! -isn't reading novels atm-

typhonsentra

2009-02-18, 12:13

Man, I thought the last new post would be a synopsis/teaser (It's about the right time now). :(

4get

2009-02-18, 12:16

Vexx

2009-02-18, 14:49

http://i41.tinypic.com/2m6uyiq.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/1p9v1g.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/6ny3k8.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/vgzzn.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/24o84sk.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2w6x63d.jpg

ep.21, Okinawa & skiing, Ami is not amused

http://i42.tinypic.com/257ltfm.jpg
That is one of the wonderful things about anime -- to be able to create so many different subtle emotions and facial expressions with so little "ink".

Manji Midou

2009-02-18, 15:04

ryuji is a manly man... too manly... l was expecting more reaction from him then just that scene in the school hallway. kitanumra acted more like one does when rejected then ryuji. oh well, even though l wanted a emo ryuji... l guess that doesn't fit his character..?

moshimouse

2009-02-18, 15:13

That is one of the wonderful things about anime -- to be able to create so many different subtle emotions and facial expressions with so little "ink".

wow, by just looking at these, you can see that Ami has really progressed as a character, i really wonder how her role is going to play out in the upcoming episodes

but skiing? for real? let me guess whats going to happen they are going to go on a school field trip or something and Taiga and Ryuuji get stuck out in the middle of no where and Taiga/Ryuuji think they are going to die so they confess to the other but really they don't because they would make a crappy ending so they spend the rest of series being awkward around each other because of the confession but eventually they end up together

Jesus i hope that doesn't happen

Kafriel

2009-02-18, 15:18

Nah, she probably went there on her own to forget about Ryuuji and Kitamura tagged along...why would Taiga and Ryuuji go skiing of all things...why would anyone go skiing at this time!

moshimouse

2009-02-18, 15:23

hell if i know, amines can be weird like that.

I mean presumably its around Christmas time in the anime, why not go skiing?

Fran~

2009-02-18, 15:41

This episode was adorable to me for personal reasons... the moment that Ryuuji check the garbage at Taiga's Kitchen (yes, it could it be weird, but in Taiga's case that was really something), tell me how much Taiga had grown up...

Miles Teg

2009-02-18, 15:52

Nah, she probably went there on her own to forget about Ryuuji and Kitamura tagged along...why would Taiga and Ryuuji go skiing of all things...why would anyone go skiing at this time!

Perhaps because it's a school trip ;)

Raiga

2009-02-18, 16:32

Minori is genki again! =O

And Ami with mini-ponytail thing = ftw.

And Haruta has got to stop trolling Taiga unless he has a death wish.

It's nice to see how much Taiga's grown. ^^ Well, not physically, I guess...

aohige

2009-02-18, 17:06

And Haruta has got to stop trolling Taiga unless he has a death wish.

Oh come on. You're telling me you DON'T have secret desires to have Taiga say "penis" accidently? :D

stormy001_M1A2

2009-02-18, 17:13

Was it me or Ryuji has grown more cynical? He seems to brood a lot more this time. And the scene where Ami gloating while her childhood friend look irritated is quite funny.

Raiga

2009-02-18, 17:14

Oh come on. You're telling me you DON'T have secret desires to have Taiga say "penis" accidently?

Oh, it's hilarious (though I had to look it up to get the joke), but like I said, not good for Haruta's health. :P

Takacchan tasuketeee!

palmtopDRAGON

2009-02-18, 17:19

I don't know how I felt about it. There was a lot of dialogue I didn't understand, but I really don't like that they focused on Minori. I really think they need to explore the Ami x Ryuuji route, or the Taiga x Ryuuji route. I don't get how her confession the ep 19 had no impact on 20.

aohige

2009-02-18, 17:23

^You probably want to wait for the subs to understand the lines first then...
The entire episode surrounded around the impact and aftermath of her confession in 19.

typhonsentra

2009-02-18, 21:01

http://subculture.animeblogger.net/images/toradora/toradora20_12.jpg

I love a good spit-take. I can see this picture getting a lot of use.

Peanutbutter003

2009-02-18, 21:12

Not sure what to make out of this episode.

- Taiga telling Ryuuji to try again with Minorin and that she won't be going to his house anymore cause it'll cause more misunderstandings. In the meantime, Taiga will try her best. Slow Ryuuji. :uhoh:

- Toradoable Taiga. Joker Haruta.

- Ryuuji couldn't pick himself up to say hi to Minorin and wishes that he can burn away his "memories" (Not quite the right word, I forgot after seeing that part.) In the end, it's the hotel they were planning to stay in Okinawa that got burned down, causing their school trip to shorten to three days, two nights and change to a ski resort, leading to a class mutiny. :heh: (Well-done, Yuri-sensei!)

- Ami updated on the change of school trip plans, and told by Taiga about Ryuuji/Minorin. "Well, it'll be good if you're the only one hurt". :twitch:

- Oh, Taiga, stop pushing the one you liked back to the other. It's gonna hurt more the more you hold it in.

- Minorin getting embarrased at holding Ryuuji's hand, and the weird "hold one side of Taiga's bag". Another metaphor at their "father/mother/daughter" relationship?

- Class spilt into groups for the school trip (Make a compass?). And we have the 5 main cast + two jokers + 2 gals hot for Yuusaku. Kihara complains. (I think I need someone to explain this better to me.)

So now, in my opinion, we now have Ami out of the picture. And Taiga pushing Ryuuji to Minorin. The "chat in Taiga's kitchen" seem to imply something but I couldn't grasp much.

And we have a ski resort coming up. Snow, Storms, Skis and that ominous line from Taiga... :twitch:

roan

2009-02-18, 21:21

- Class spilt into groups for the school trip (Make a compass?). And we have the 5 main cast + two jokers + 2 gals hot for Yuusaku. Kihara complains. (I think I need someone to explain this better to me.)

You're forgetting that Kihara sees Taiga as a rival/major threat.

Peanutbutter003

2009-02-18, 21:28

You're forgetting that Kihara sees Taiga as a rival/major threat.

Yeah, but aren't they already in the same group? You mean she's pissed Taiga's in there more than she herself is with Yuusaku?

roan

2009-02-18, 21:30

Yeah, but aren't they already in the same group? You mean she's pissed Taiga's in there more than she herself is with Yuusaku?

Well, from the POV of the people in the class, Taiga and Kitamura already have good chemistry. I think her position on being in the same group is that she can't "beat" Taiga for his affections.

Raiga

2009-02-18, 21:34

After reading an episode summary that confirms what I thought I heard, I stared at her hair from various different episodes for like ten minutes...

I still can't tell the difference. ~_O

Tango337

2009-02-19, 00:14

What exactly did it mean when taiga was praying to kitamura? Was it for ryuujis sake to get better or something?

physics223

2009-02-19, 00:32

Yeah. I think I mistakenly promoted a virus. Thank god NOD32 found it before I managed to play the damn thing.

Sorry for the trouble guys.

Gago ka talaga, kuya Jorge ...

hahahahaha

[You're a joke ... hahahahaha :heh:]

arkxkra

2009-02-19, 04:23

erm, this episdoe quite ok. Although not like last episode so pain. I wonder when will start crying again >.<".

wistfulloner

2009-02-19, 05:29

What does the full trash bin near the end mean? Is Taiga trying to be independent so Minori gets the point that she doesn't need Ryuji with her?

And is it just me or is Minori's hair shorter?

roan

2009-02-19, 05:41

I'm surprised you were able to figure that out. Yeah, she got a haircut.

I probably should also answer this...

What does the full trash bin near the end mean? Is Taiga trying to be independent so Minori gets the point that she doesn't need Ryuji with her?

In a lot of places, there's regulations on separating types of garbage. Some people ignore this and given how much of a dump Taiga's place was before she met Ryuuji, she probably didn't take that much care in dividing the garbage.

You pretty much nailed it, but there's a little bit more to it than just that.

Fran~

2009-02-19, 07:40

I'm surprised you were able to figure that out. Yeah, she got a haircut.
That was so classical... a girl with a new haircut :heh:

BetoJR

2009-02-19, 08:40

Now, it would have been funnier if Ryuji got one...

Fran~

2009-02-19, 08:44

Considering how Ryuuji is showed as a "perfect bride", sure... :heh:

BetoJR

2009-02-19, 08:47

Exactly my point. I can perfectly see Haruta or Noto going "Are you a girl?" oh him. :D

Fran~

2009-02-19, 08:48

And Ryuuji hesitating the answer... :heh:

BetoJR

2009-02-19, 08:52

Oh, God, that made me laugh out loud. :heh:

Fran~

2009-02-19, 09:11

i'm just thinking... if Kyon evolved in Kyonko, we could see Ryuuji evolving in something like her???

some fan-based creation like Kyonko?... that would be so much epic WIN :heh:

roan

2009-02-19, 09:11

.....No thank you.

Kinny Riddle

2009-02-19, 10:11

LOL, I never expected Minori to utter something in Cantonese. She said "mou mon tai" 無問題, or "no problem". I see that a lot in visual novels lately as well. I never knew phrases from Hong Kong movies would catch on this well in Japan.

Taiga has moved on from liking Kitamura, and probably Ryuji, though it's debatable that she might probably be in denial. In contast, Kitamura is still smarting from his "being dumped" by Sumire upon seeing her photo.

But such is the influence Ryuji has on Taiga's life that she's begun to do her own cleaning, we'll see if she's really moved on from this. Though even if she is trying to move on, there is one person that could derail that - Ryuji himself.

Ryuji is still subconciously concerned for Taiga, though Taiga's constant urging and his own feelings for Minori has clouded him from thinking properly about his feelings for Taiga.

Minori's cute meter has gone considerably up this week, not a bad thing.

Ami most definitely has more or less given up, though it doesn't stop her from berating Ryuji for being so dense with every chance she has.

And Haruta has got to stop trolling Taiga unless he has a death wish.

Well, if you consider Haruta's IQ, he probably has no concept of what suicide means. :heh: Lol'ed at Taiga mispronouncing that word into something dirty.

A good transitional episode for what is to come.

Justin Kim

2009-02-19, 13:45

Minori uttered something in Cantonese? O_o, I wonder if the translators will pick that up...I know I have seen that phrase a lot and heard it from Chinese teacher once. Hm that's interesting I guess things do spread countrywide regardless of the dialect.

War_Lord

2009-02-19, 14:23

Ami most definitely has more or less given up, though it doesn't stop her from berating Ryuji for being so dense with every chance she has.

Her attempts to get him to notice her were pretty vague (so vague I'm still not sure if she really likes him or just wants attention), so its no wonder her chances ended before it even started. Though I guess shes just not the type to pour her heart out to a guy.

Vexx

2009-02-19, 15:12

I surmise that Ami has *never* had to chase a guy before.... totally out of her element. (though there's some speculation that as the "childhood friend" of Kitamura she may have been ignored as anything but a friend by him as well).

SageGaiGar

2009-02-19, 15:17

Fran~

2009-02-19, 15:28

I said it before... Ami falls for what she cant get...

Vexx

2009-02-19, 15:30

Heh, it was said early on that some other set of cameras is filming Kitamura's "harem anime" series where everyone wants to smack the tar out of him for being so indecisive as he's chased by 4+ cute girls...

Fran~

2009-02-19, 15:34

It will be called "Ero-kawaii Megane-Kitamura"... :heh:

typhonsentra

2009-02-19, 15:44

http://coalguys.com/?p=175

I would like to remind you guys
Published
by
CoalGuys
on February 19, 2009
in Uncategorized
.

if a torrent is not on our tracker, it’s not ours, okay?

:heh:They actually made a post about what we were talking about earlier.

I surmise that Ami has *never* had to chase a guy before.... totally out of her element. (though there's some speculation that as the "childhood friend" of Kitamura she may have been ignored as anything but a friend by him as well).
I just don't buy that. There was that one line at the end of volume 2 where she talks about him liking "Someone else" and you can't see her expression but I always felt like that was a red herring judging by the way she treats him in subsequent volumes. Then again, when I think about it she kinda treats him similar to how she's treating Ryuuji now, isn't she?

physics223

2009-02-19, 15:47

As always, here are my episode impressions (and general summary):

Toradora 20: I take it back. I really do. (http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2009/02/toradora-20-i-take-it-back-i-really-do/)

Taiga didn't only pass through the eye of the needle in a burning haystack. She did that with the tornado of emotions whirling her about from the inside out. My god. I never knew I'd switch so fast, but I did. This ... was simply touching.

Oh, do leave comments! :D

Fran~

2009-02-19, 15:55

I just don't buy that. There was that one line at the end of volume 2 where she talks about him liking "Someone else" and you can't see her expression but I always felt like that was a red herring judging by the way she treats him in subsequent volumes. Then again, when I think about it she kinda treats him similar to how she's treating Ryuuji now, isn't she?

Well, i always thinked that she already knowed about Sumire, that's why she didn't interfere with that thing, when Yuri sensei asked she and Ryuuji for info about Kitamura's behaviour, she just laughed at it (Sumire was there too).

Also, i believe that she traits Kitamura and Ryuuji in that way because she don't use a facade in front of them.

Voitan

2009-02-19, 16:19

http://i41.tinypic.com/2m6uyiq.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/1p9v1g.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/6ny3k8.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/vgzzn.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/24o84sk.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2w6x63d.jpg

ep.21, Okinawa & skiing, Ami is not amused

http://i42.tinypic.com/257ltfm.jpg

And now I don't need to watch the episode... Mmmm...

physics223

2009-02-19, 16:48

Bonta Kun

2009-02-19, 17:20

Ami doesn't look too pleased in the preview for the next episode. I'm assuming that (1) she gets shafter again, or (2) Ryuuji did something stupid. I'm sure there are other possibilities, but that seems to be the most obvious ones.

I think she isn't pleased someone tacked a 2-C sign on her jacket, doesn't fit with her style:heh:

typhonsentra

2009-02-19, 17:29

Also, i believe that she traits Kitamura and Ryuuji in that way because she don't use a facade in front of them.

What I mean is that before this episode she was much friendlier with Ryuuji. She certainly never laughed in his face the way she has with Kitamura.

Fran~

2009-02-19, 19:10

What I mean is that before this episode she was much friendlier with Ryuuji. She certainly never laughed in his face the way she has with Kitamura.
It is because Ryuuji and Kitamura are different. You can have 2 great friends, but you know that one of them could tolerate a good laugh at his face and the other not.

Freya

2009-02-19, 23:03

Coalguys DID release it now.

Fran~

2009-02-19, 23:07

Coalguys DID release it now.

You won a tora-cookie... :)

Raiga

2009-02-19, 23:18

Just watched the subs. Lol @ Minorin.

Thinking about it, I figured out another reason I prefer to watch the raw first... especially when there's lots of dialog, I have to keep concentrating on the text on the bottom of the screen... watching it raw first, though, I get to pay full attention to what's going on visually, and all the characters' expressions and reactions, which can be quite subtle.

It's like in a sense, the first time through the raw is when I'm really watching the episode, and the subs just fill in the information I missed.

4get

2009-02-19, 23:23

http://i41.tinypic.com/4lhg1t.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2rhsdw5.jpg

typhonsentra

2009-02-19, 23:31

Thank God, I was going nuts with anticipation. Here's hoping they release at a speed similar to what they did for episode 16 for the last two episodes.

germanturkey

2009-02-19, 23:54

a very meh episode. Ami rescued it. Ryuuji is obviously conflicted between Taiga and Minorin. after this ep, there's still a flicker of hope for a Ami x Ryuuji ending. i will cling on to it.

seems like Ryuuji is crying in the last frame of the preview?

Master Chibi

2009-02-20, 00:11

God you Ami worshippers sound like the leftovers of a fallen religion, it's hilarious. Ami has become nothing more then a third wheel to the entire ordeal, one who happens to know better of the situaton at hand then the two who are primarily oblivious in it.

One moment made this entire episode for me.

When Takasu was crossing the street ahead of Minorin and Taiga yelled to her to stop him, she went and grabbed his hand, then let go (while blushing~) but grabbed onto his sleeve instead. Taiga ran past them, throwing her bag into his face, telling him to take care of it since he got 'caught'. Then we go back to Minorin whose is suddenly mad at Taiga for the little 'schtick' she just pulled.

It barely lasted 15 seconds, but it was just an excellent, clear cut way to display that the characters in the show don't just fill the same old archetype, but go far past it and acknowledge the roller coaster they're riding on at the moment. A clever little way to take just a baby step forward and nudge Ryuji without ever coming near the point of being contrived or forced. I love it.

:p

Traece

2009-02-20, 01:02

Heh. This episode was fantastic to be perfectly blunt. It feels like they got rid of that depressing tone from the last few in terms of the failing relationships and such, and replaced it with that happy feeling of the first several episodes. Plus we're learning that in a way Takasu really has become like a father to Taiga (at least for the time being), as he's taught her how to live on her own responsibly it seems. Though this will obviously be subject to change, Takasu has done a fantastic job as Minorin says.

It seems odd to me at this point that Minorin isn't being as 'selfless' as always. In the past she didn't want to get with Takasu because she was under the impression that Taiga needed Takasu (and this is clearly true, and she admits that he changed her considerably for the better). Maybe it's just because she's not really as bright as I had thought before, but wouldn't that be even more of an incentive to not interfere in their relationship? To me that sort of extremely positive influence on another person, and that sort of bond between them would point out to me that they were almost perfect for each other if they could be that close and that helpful to each other.

With those things aside, it would appear that Takasu can use pyrokinesis. Also, poor Kitamura for having to see his lover's picture in that magazine knowing she's all the way in America. He'll get his chance again though... I'm sure he will. =D

Lastly, I'm curious to know if anybody else got the same feelings about Taiga I did based on Takasu's realization that she's no longer being effected by Kitamura's presence. This gave me the impression that, whether she knows it or not, she no longer harbors the same feelings for Kitamura that she once did. Although I'm not really shy, I know that I've had this experience in the past with a girl in which I originally had feelings for her and thought of her often and tried to be as civil and polite as possible in her presence, I found in time I no longer cared for her much. I'd say Taiga is going through that same thing, where she's growing out of her liking for Kitamura. That seems to be the case in my eyes.

Edit: I would like to see Ami and Takasu getting together... But I highly doubt that happening. We could only dream though right? Admittedly, I'm considerably less opposed to Minorin and Takasu being together. Before I absolutely hated the idea and disliked her but at this point in time I'm actually fine with it. Maybe it's because they've been getting together so much better and have actually started to be cute together. =) It's hard not to enjoy the scene of her cursing Taiga under her breath because she tricked her in to grabbing Takasu's sleeve. Taiga can be quite underhanded (and undersized... <_<).

CybEssen

2009-02-20, 01:05

This episode was just depressing as a whole but still good.. I guess.

The first scene of the OP is shown to great effect in this episode. Taiga and Ami are walking away from Takasu and Takasu is walking in the same direction as Minorin. Too bad they'll all eventually collide even if they walk in different directions.

The little window/balcony chat. Taiga tells Takasu to not "run away" when she's doing a lot of "running away" herself.

First glimpse of what could be the thing that Minorin clutches during the OP. It's a hairpin. Can anyone confirm?
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/einprz/xmaspresent.pnghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/einprz/xmaspresentenlarged.png

Taiga can talk/be near Kitamura without imploding. Might be a sign that she is over him? Could be just reinforcing her "maturity" as she is now taking care of herself (Having suitable silverware, sorting, it doesn't look like a dump, etc.) and trying to do all the things Ryuuji has been doing for her except the cooking part.

Maya should forget about Kitamura and just date Noto. They clearly have more chemistry. :rolleyes:

They tease Kitamura about the picture of Sumire. (From one of the previous year guidebooks.)

Ami is just Ami.

They wrap the episode up with a depressing statement. Yay.

frubam

2009-02-20, 01:09

Call me crazy, but when things are going so well for our hero, I feel less excited as to what's gonna happen next. Not that this was a bad ep, I just start losing interest when all the confusion starts clearing up. Hopefully, with Ryuuji commenting on how everyone being together is fun or whatnot, that the shit is gonna hit the fan soon causing everyone, save Kitamura to spiral downhill.

Also, Kitamura proves to show how great a best friend he is by not knowing or inquiring if something was wrong with Ryuuji :rolleyes:.

maxpepper

2009-02-20, 01:26

meh.

so ryuuji still likes minorin -- reaaaally????? didnt see that one coming
so taiga likes ryuuji but pretends she doesnt -- rreeaally?? wow didnt see that one
so minori actually likes ryuuji but is an emo weirdo??? -- MIND BLOWING!!!!
so after practically living (6 months?) with ryuuji taiga can now separate garbage and eat microwave food. -- she's a big girl now!

this is how this episode should have been:
1st scene - 2 minutes duration - Taiga tells ryuuji she wont be hanging around him anymore so he can get together with Minori . Ryuuji understand and says he's going to try even harder.

2nd scene - 1 minute duration - Teacher telling everybody they will be going on a ski trip.

3rd scene and beyond - start of new arc, possibly involving a bus accident and a couple of student deaths (miorin becomming a cripple would be just perfect).

Bring on the dramma dammit.

Voitan

2009-02-20, 01:30

God you Ami worshippers sound like the leftovers of a fallen religion, it's hilarious.

It's necessary to make acerbic comments to people who haven't said anything wrong to you... why?

We like our character, 'nough said.

roan

2009-02-20, 01:30

There were a couple of cuts I'm not really satisfied by, but the overall flow worked and didn't seem all that unnatural if I just watched it. Kind of.

There are a couple of details that some of you should have paid attention to this episode, but hopefully, they'll be accentuated a little more in the next episode.

Freya

2009-02-20, 01:58

Such a disappointment.....compared to last weeks episode.

Can MinorinxRyuuji just die off already? Sigh.

Come on Taiga!!! The hell are you doing?! >< Sigh.

Vexx

2009-02-20, 02:01

It's necessary to make acerbic comments to people who haven't said anything wrong to you... why?

We like our character, 'nough said.

I'll ask nicely then... what did you think about the STORY? :) :) :)

Master Chibi

2009-02-20, 02:11

It's necessary to make acerbic comments to people who haven't said anything wrong to you... why?

We like our character, 'nough said.

Hey now, I like Ami too (I love everyone in this show actually), but if you want to treat this like a night at the horse races every week, then yeah, I can chime in against the trend of sympathy for Ami as much as you guys can for it.

:P

hai_san

2009-02-20, 02:26

Toradora develope into a Highschool Love Drama, too bad it is all only about Ryuuji & Taiga & Minorin "triangle", Kitamura+ Ami a now perfect side characters. No more "pentagon".

Janifuu

2009-02-20, 02:49

Freya

2009-02-20, 02:59

I agree with Master Chibi's statement... I personally like Ami alot as well but my god, do you seriously think there's even a remote chance for Ami and Ryuuji to suddenly pair up at this point? How the hell does that make any sense...

It doesn't lol. So there's no real reason to bitch about AmixRyuuji.

Unless Toradora pulls a Akane Iro ni Somarusaka

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 04:16

It doesn't lol. So there's no real reason to bitch about AmixRyuuji.

Unless Toradora pulls a Akane Iro ni Somarusaka

Or an Ichigo 100%. Or a SHUFFLE.

Though, to be fair, SHUFFLE made a little more sense. Honestly, who'd want to be Kaede's boyfriend? She's CRAZY.

Anyway, pretty good ep, though, as almost always, the concluding episode is going to be the really epic one.

I just kind of got a bad feeling out of this, somehow. Maybe it's because I don't see how they can resolve the coming conflict without it feeling kind of poorly done, at least to me.

I also don't see how Ryuuji can fall for Taiga at all, especially with the way the anime has adapted this...

8/10. Want to give it more, but that's all I feel it deserves. Probably the overall ranking this show is going to get from me, too...

Sigh. Man, I really wish this show was more like the books...

roan

2009-02-20, 05:25

Sigh. Man, I really wish this show was more like the books...

I think that's how everyone feels when their manga/novel/game isn't done by Kyoani....

But I still agree :uhoh:.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 05:28

I think that's how everyone feels when their manga/novel/game isn't done by Kyoani....

But I still agree :uhoh:.

Heck, I still wish most of KyoAni's adaptations were like the games/books.

Excepting Lucky Star which got heavily improved and Kanon which was just made of win.

I think half the reason I'm not enjoying this show as much is because I know how it ends, and the other half being I don't see how they can realistically end it like that without the subtle hints and informative internal monologues the books have.

nor4d

2009-02-20, 05:47

I just kind of got a bad feeling out of this, somehow. Maybe it's because I don't see how they can resolve the coming conflict without it feeling kind of poorly done, at least to me.

You're not alone. Hard to say what will happen... I even don't know what i want by myself :)

BetoJR

2009-02-20, 06:26

Well, I've been spoiled about how the story might end recently (not by anyone's fault), and since then, I've no problem with the direction the anime's taking. Honestly, it can work, with all the hints going back towards the second or third episodes (also by the show's title, but who's counting that?).

Anyway, this one was quite the change of pace from the last. Minorin's back to acting all genki, probably feeling that "things are fine just as they are", but, as Ryuji pointedly realized, they cannot stay as they are. Next episode probably will have lots of teen angst, quite nicely hinted at here. And some people might be just a wee bit surprised as to the reason Ami looks so pissed at the previews - I know I look forward to it.

Taiga called Ryuji out for running away. But isn't that almost exactly what she is doing, at the moment? Quite the kettle calling the pot black, eh?

Ryuji is a quiet wreck waiting to happen. Would be funny if he cut/dyed his hair, tho. :heh:

All in all, a solid nine from me.

wistfulloner

2009-02-20, 06:34

I think half the reason I'm not enjoying this show as much is because I know how it ends, and the other half being I don't see how they can realistically end it like that without the subtle hints and informative internal monologues the books have.

For the first half, its your problem, so I can't say anything.

As for the second half of your dislike: Why do you think novels and novels adapted to anime have to end in a perfectly realistic scenario? It's a work of fiction, and fiction doesn't become interesting by sticking to guidelines. If you read the novel, it's a bonus to you, but from the purely anime standpoint, it's up to you to interpret what it means, not for the novel to do that job.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 06:43

As for the second half of your dislike: Why do you think novels and novels adapted to anime have to end in a perfectly realistic scenario? It's a work of fiction, and fiction doesn't become interesting by sticking to guidelines. If you read the novel, it's a bonus to you, but from the purely anime standpoint, it's up to you to interpret what it means, not for the novel to do that job.

The question is whether or not the anime can pull off what the novels have done. And even that's arguable because I really don't think Ryuuji's development in the novel is realistic either, but I haven't actually read that far so I'll stop there.

I'm not using the term "realistic" as in "real life", more like... "logical outcome"? "Natural development"? "A not-contrived, deus ex plotline"?

I'm just worried.

BetoJR

2009-02-20, 06:51

I, for one, think that the hinted-at end is the more logical outcome. I mean, c'mon... it's not like there haven't been moments when the characters themselves wondered about it.

stormy001_M1A2

2009-02-20, 07:00

I dunno if anyone noticed this but Taiga is becoming more and more human (she becomes more relaxed and spontaneous girl), becoming less and less cardboard tsundereko (like god awful ZnT pink hair chick) around Ryuji after the accidental catharsis in episode 19.

Here is the question, what are people looking for in this series? An affirmation of otaku troping stereotype that is in end; empty hokum or genuine bloom of human relationship which can be bittersweet but satisfying?

I see these 2 camps here in ToraDora!.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 07:02

I, for one, think that the hinted-at end is the more logical outcome. I mean, c'mon... it's not like there haven't been moments when the characters themselves wondered about it.

Only once in the anime, and NOT from Ryuuji, if I recall correctly.

What matters here isn't Taiga's feelings. It's Ryuuji's feelings, and...

The logical outcome of all this, to me, would be that Taiga ends up forcing Ryuuji to ask out Minorin again, while finally showing Minorin that she doesn't need Ryuuji, and in the process getting over him herself. YAY GOOD END.

That's how the story would logically progress from this point, if you ask me. Bad end for Taiga, but oh well, she just needs to learn to look after herself.

Even if Ryuuji does find out about Taiga's true feelings, he (in the anime) has shown ABSOLUTELY NO romantic interest in her. Save perhaps one scene where he saw her in a swimsuit, and I really don't count that. Just hormones.

From what we've seen so far in the anime, Ryuuji would not choose Taiga over Minorin as a romantic decision, although if forced to choose between them as a general decision, he'd choose Taiga.

It's not romantic love, it's just devotion and caring. A different kind of love. He has no sexual or romantic interest in Taiga, and does not see her that way and I don't see him ever thinking of her that way without seeming horribly out of character.

Again, this is just from what the anime has done, although the 'hints' in the novels are far too subtle to really pick up on, (for me at least) especially to do with Ryuuji's feelings. It does help that they have a lot more physical contact in the books, however.

And that's pretty much my problem with the show right now, and why I'm probably not going to rate this as high as I would have otherwise.

It'll probably depend on the ending, as it usually does for me.

Now, someone prove me wrong.

BetoJR

2009-02-20, 07:14

I don't really differentiate between need and love. They all boil down to the same set of feelings, really. And Ryuji is attracted to Taiga - he does notice her in that way. He's also jealous of her, of people (specially men) paying her more attention than he cares for.
I can't pull scenes from the top of my head, but I remember noticing it in the anime, as well - not only in the novels. Anyway, it's probably just a matter of resolution. And it's getting kinda close.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 07:23

I don't really differentiate between need and love. They all boil down to the same set of feelings, really.

I really, really, really, don't think that. Dependency is not love. It's dependency. Love is really more about equality, and regardless of what the novels and anime say, I don't really feel Ryuuji and Taiga have EVER been equal. That is, I feel that what is shown and what is said are very different things. I've felt this from the beginning, about a lot of things in Toradora, and it's this feeling of continued dissonance that is making me like this show less and less.

"I need Ryuuji, therefore, I love Ryuuij"? Logical error. Logical error. Conclusion does not follow from premise. Logic error.

And Ryuji is attracted to Taiga - he does notice her in that way. He's also jealous of her, of people (specially men) paying her more attention than he cares for.
I can't pull scenes from the top of my head, but I remember noticing it in the anime, as well - not only in the novels. Anyway, it's probably just a matter of resolution. And it's getting kinda close.

I've never seen it in the anime. I've seen him jealous, but never ATTRACTED to her. Not in the anime. Not really in the books either. It's more of a "Yeah, she's really pretty, but I heart Kushieda~"

I've never seen the "sexual tension" people are talking about, or the "friendship". All I've seen is an abusive, dependent, one-sided relationship, and this really, really disappoints me.

Yes, the relationship has become less abusive, and she's forcing it to become less dependent, but it's still one-sided.

Both Minorin and Taiga are, at this point, pushing Ryuuji in different directions, regardless of how he feels. And is how he feels EVER going to matter?

BetoJR

2009-02-20, 07:28

Actually, love is a co-dependent form of relationship. Equality and stuff is all nice and fluffy, but when it comes down to it, it's just a need to be close to someone you care about. But this is neither here nor there.

I, for one, believe they could only end up together. I would prefer Ryuji to end up with Ami (or even Minorin), but that's not how it's all shaping up to be - in my eyes. He won't be able to not feel his world coming out from under him when he finds out about Taiga's feelings - Minorin crush or no.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 07:33

Actually, love is a co-dependent form of relationship. Equality and stuff is all nice and fluffy, but when it comes down to it, it's just a need to be close to someone you care about. But this is neither here nor there.

I really still think Taiga is really mistaking her feelings, and that one line really gives me a feeling of, to put it in emotional terms "WRONGWRONGFEELSICKWRONGBADWRONGWRONG".

So yeah. It just feels really, really wrong to me.

"I need him, so I love him"? What the hell?

I, for one, believe they could only end up together. I would prefer Ryuji to end up with Ami (or even Minorin), but that's not how it's all shaping up to be - in my eyes. He won't be able to not feel his world coming out from under him when he finds out about Taiga's feelings - Minorin crush or no.

Of course it would break his world, but what would he do about it?

His feelings for her don't appear to be romantic in nature, though I don't deny that they're a kind of love... I just don't think he'd magically fall for her at all.

Why would he stop having romantic feelings for Minorin just because his "best friend" suddenly confessed to him? How is that supposed to work?

physics223

2009-02-20, 07:34

I'm going to be blunt and some people may be offended by my crassness, but I don't think there's any other way of stating this. Toradora is a show that is Yuyuko Takemiya's wish-fulfillment. It's not my wish fulfillment or yours. Realistically speaking, Ami would be the obvious choice. Who doesn't want a model who is both intelligent and mature?

But as some people pointed out, it's all fiction. Maybe Takemiya saw herself like Taiga when she was young. Maybe she failed to bag the guy so she decided to create a story where someone like Taiga gets the guy. Maybe it's like Atonement. It's shaping up to be like that. We won't know her reasons, but Toradora (if the title hasn't obviously stated it yet) will end between Ryuuji and Taiga. A lot of people commiserate with Ami because there has got to be no man existing who is as dense as Ryuuji. But he is.

Just deal with it, guys. I'm trying to, myself.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 07:36

I'm going to be blunt and some people may be offended by my crassness, but I don't think there's any other way of stating this. Toradora is a show that is Yuyuko Takemiya's wish-fulfillment. It's not my wish fulfillment or yours. Realistically speaking, Ami would be the obvious choice. Who doesn't want a model who is both intelligent and mature?

Now that's wish fulfillment.

Realistically speaking, it'd be Minorin. WHY? Because Ryuuji has had a crush on her from the very start of the show.

This isn't a shipper talking here. This is just looking at logical progression of narration, of which a Taiga ending IS NOT.

If it had more setup, if they were more obviously attracted to each other, sure. But they're isn't and they're not.

And, ultimately, it doesn't matter, because they're all just stupid kids with horrible pasts making really bad decisions that will get them into relationships that won't last past high school.

physics223

2009-02-20, 07:40

Ryuuji liked Minori even at the very beginning. Granted.

But I doubt any normal male, given a chance in going out with a model who's smart, mature, and young ... would turn that down. My point still stands - it's Takemiya's wish-fulfillment, not yours or mine.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 07:43

But I doubt any normal male, given a chance in going out with a model who's smart, mature, and young ... would turn that down. My point still stands - it's Takemiya's wish-fulfillment, not yours or mine.

Has Ami ever really asked him out? Has she ever been really overtly obvious about her attraction to him?

Remember, he still sees all her come-ons as simple teasing.

The viewers are lucky because they have an outside perspective. Try looking at it from Ryuuji's viewpoint.

Besides, Ryuuji isn't emotionally attracted to her anyway. Which is what really matters.

BetoJR

2009-02-20, 07:46

But I doubt any normal male, given a chance in going out with a model who's smart, mature, and young ... would turn that down.
Actually, quite a lot of males do just that. Or do you think all the intelligent models fare all that well in their love lives? Case in point: Ryuji's first impression of her was pretty bad. And she doesn't really work all that hard to change it, if you care to see it. :D

physics223

2009-02-20, 07:46

My point still stands - it's Takemiya's wish-fulfillment, not yours or mine.

We can debate all night on who's the girl who Ryuuji would logically end up with, and still disagree. Besides, that's not the focus of my point. I bolded it in case it still confuses anyone what my central argument is. We know it's never going to be Taiga that Ryuuji's going to end up with, at least, and we agree upon that.

Among the three, Taiga would be the least likely Ryuuji would end up with - if this were not wish-fulfillment.

BetoJR

2009-02-20, 07:48

Oy, you're the one derailing it, bub.

Edit: Pointless neg rep is pointless. Specially without a point to call home. :D

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 07:51

My point still stands - it's Takemiya's wish-fulfillment, not yours or mine.

Don't derail the argument.

Okay. What.

Sigh. Let's put this in simple terms:

YOUR SHIP HIT AN ICEBERG BEFORE IT EVEN LEFT PORT.

I'd like more evidence for how this is Takemiya's "wish-fulfillment". Judging by the Author's Notes at the ends of the books, she's a hell of a lot more like Minorin than Taiga.

If it's any kind of "wish-fulfillment", it's her belief that strong intimate relationships are based around emotional bonds rather than physical ones, which is true, especially from a female perspective. Someone else already said this though.

I'm really just concerned about how they can possibly pull of Ryuuji's massive change of feelings and emotional direction without it seeming incredibly contrived, especially because there's no sexual tension at all in the anime, when there was precious little in the books in the first place.

physics223

2009-02-20, 07:54

I was never shipping in the first place. If you read what I've written on Toradora as early as episode 13 I knew what was going to happen. Wrong assumption, sir.

My point still stands, and my central argument still stands. I edited my previous post, but let me paste that for you:

My point still stands - it's Takemiya's wish-fulfillment, not yours or mine.

We can debate all night on who's the girl who Ryuuji would logically end up with, and still disagree. Besides, that's not the focus of my point. I bolded it in case it still confuses anyone what my central argument is. We know it's never going to be Taiga that Ryuuji's going to end up with, at least, and we agree upon that.

Among the three, Taiga would be the least likely Ryuuji would end up with - if this were not wish-fulfillment.

And that was my central argument, in case you guys didn't see that. Thus the 'don't derail the argument.'

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 07:59

I was never shipping in the first place. If you read what I've written on Toradora as early as episode 13 I knew what was going to happen. Wrong assumption, sir.

Ah, sorry about that then.

At least it gave me an excuse to whip out that line.

Anyway, as I said, I don't see it as direct wish-fulfillment. If the roles were reversed, then yeah, but Takemiya is much too silly and self-deprecating to be anything like Taiga... if anyone's an author avatar, it's Yuri-sensei.

BetoJR

2009-02-20, 08:02

MeoTwister5

2009-02-20, 08:02

Actually, the reason why he gets pushed around by both women despite his feelings is... well... because he doesn't truly understand these feelings. Sure he likes Minori, but hey, it's pretty obvious he still has reservations and still has some issues that suggest he still isn't totally committed to it. As for Taiga, that's a debate I won't touch as of yet.

At the point of episode 20, the series is reminding me of Lovely Complex. If you've seen it you'll understand what I mean. At least Otani held his ground against Risa. Ryuuji is kinda pussywhipped.

As for why I really think Taiga is really meant for Ryuuji, beyond mere plot contrivance, author intentions and any possible deus ex machinations, I'll talk about is some other day.

physics223

2009-02-20, 08:06

physics223, you seem to think we're all here to argue with you. Hence, your "don't derail the argument" snide still fails. We were doing just fine on our own, without someone claiming ownership over which subjects can or can't be discussed.

Better luck next time. :D

Have you taken basic logic? Just asking.

There's something known as a straw man. It's a logical fallacy.

Besides, I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Kaisos Erranon. Since you've butt in, though, I couldn't really claim ownership over the subjects of discussion. You've already preceded me. ;)

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 08:08

Sure he likes Minori, but hey, it's pretty obvious he still has reservations and still has some issues that suggest he still isn't totally committed to it.

Point. He still has difficulty talking to her, or working up motivation to do anything and really does seem more concerned about Taiga than anything else.

But again, that's not romantic love, which is what I'm trying to get at

At the point of episode 20, the series is reminding me of Lovely Complex. If you've seen it you'll understand what I mean. At least Otani held his ground against Risa. Ryuuji is kinda pussywhipped.

That's because Ryuuji is INCREDIBLY FEMININE. He's like Shinji Ikari played mostly for laughs.

physics223

2009-02-20, 08:11

I think after re-watching this series I would like it more. There's still five episodes, though. I'm hoping it would be better than Honey and Clover, but I have quite a few doubts.

BetoJR

2009-02-20, 08:11

Besides, I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Kaisos Erranon. Since you've butt in, though, I couldn't really claim ownership over the subjects of discussion. You've already preceded me. ;)
Then you should have qualified it with a "Kaisos Erranon, don't derail the subject". The way you phrased it involved everyone in the thread.

And if you tried to imply I should be sorry for butting in, guess what? This is a discussion forum. And not one about logic. Just so you know, trying to "win" an argument is a very sorry kind of behavior, in my view. But if you like to do it, be my guest. I was merely pointing out a perceived flaw in judgment. If I perceived it wrongly, I apologize.

As for H&C... everyone seems to imply it's a good series. Compared to this one, so far, does it portray feelings just as well?

typhonsentra

2009-02-20, 08:13

I'd like to point out that the series isn't done yet, and a lot of things can change in a single book. Hell, a lot can change in a single chapter of Toradora. No one should be thinking in terms of "This is definitely how it's going to end" yet. Just enjoy the ride.

There were a couple of cuts I'm not really satisfied by, but the overall flow worked and didn't seem all that unnatural if I just watched it. Kind of.

There are a couple of details that some of you should have paid attention to this episode, but hopefully, they'll be accentuated a little more in the next episode.

I'd figured as much but it felt like a natural flow to me watching and not knowing how the source material went originally. Were any scenes fully removed/drastically altered or were they just shortened conversations?

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 08:13

I think after re-watching this series I would like it more. There's still five episodes, though. I'm hoping it would be better than Honey and Clover, but I have quite a few doubts.

I'll probably marathon it one weekend and love it a hell of a lot more when I see the connections lock into place.

And if you tried to imply I should be sorry for butting in, guess what? This is a discussion forum. And not one about logic. Just so you know, trying to "win" an argument is a very sorry kind of behavior, in my view. But if you like to do it, be my guest. I was merely pointing out a perceived flaw in judgment.

Personally, I like to be proved wrong whenever I say something negative. The world feels a little bit brighter that way.

I'd like to point out that the series isn't done yet, and a lot of things can change in a single book. Hell, a lot can change in a single chapter of Toradora. No one should be thinking in terms of "This is definitely how it's going to end" yet. Just enjoy the ride.

I have a tendency to evaluate works based on how they end, oddly. Probably why I loved Geass and Eva so much after the fact even though most of their episodes were crap.

And this is starting to remind me of a Sunrise show. EPIC TWIST! EPIC TWIST!

physics223

2009-02-20, 08:16

@BetoJR

Yes, because I expected you to reply.

I mean, I'm omniscient, aren't I? If you looked at the span of time between my post and his it's not a very long interval. I'm sure he'd understand, since he was the one who took me on in the first place. I didn't expect anyone to join, but hey!

And yes, Honey and Clover is fucking awesome. People call Toradora at times to be Honey and Clover Jr. . So far, however, Honey and Clover trumps over Toradora.

Fran~

2009-02-20, 08:16

it's Takemiya's wish-fulfillment, not yours or mine.
there it is... i think the same...

physics223

2009-02-20, 08:18

I'd like to point out that the series isn't done yet, and a lot of things can change in a single book. Hell, a lot can change in a single chapter of Toradora. No one should be thinking in terms of "This is definitely how it's going to end" yet. Just enjoy the ride.

I'd figured as much but it felt like a natural flow to me watching and not knowing how the source material went originally. Were any scenes fully removed/drastically altered or were they just shortened conversations?

I will contend that statement. Taiga and Ryuuji is how it's going to end. Everyone except the shippers knows that. The title foretells it and the occurrences portend it. It is definitely how it's going down.

Fran~

2009-02-20, 08:20

Ok... but, the funny stuff will be to know how those two will be together... it's not just about the outcome but the way how they got there.

Miles Teg

2009-02-20, 08:25

And yes, Honey and Clover is fucking awesome. People call Toradora at times to be Honey and Clover Jr. . So far, however, Honey and Clover trumps over Toradora.

I really don't see the relation between the two, for me those two series have really nothing in common but I am probably not the best person to speak about that since I have found H&C terribly boring and I don't even remember if I have been able to finish the first season :heh:

wistfulloner

2009-02-20, 08:33

Perhaps it's because I'm exposed to Asian literature almost all the time, but I also didn't find H&C to be "The Best Show Ever". It's a great watch, but not what it's really cracked up to be.

But I do find commonalities between the two, since both basically have the themes of romantic relationships mixed in with camaraderie.

typhonsentra

2009-02-20, 08:38

I will contend that statement. Taiga and Ryuuji is how it's going to end. Everyone except the shippers knows that. The title foretells it and the occurrences portend it. It is definitely how it's going down.

The show's about they're relationship but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll end the series as a couple. From what I've heard the series could easily end with no romantic pairing at all.

BetoJR

2009-02-20, 08:38

Oh, and I've been meaning to ask: what's up with these Coalgirls' releases? Are they legit?

physics223

2009-02-20, 08:39

No. Avoid like the plague. They're trolls.

Fran~

2009-02-20, 08:43

LOL, who knows... but in my country, girls are forbidden in any coal mine :heh:

Probably they want to compete with CG in some form.

MarthX

2009-02-20, 08:43

Coalgirls is a good upscaled Coalguys release.

Fran~

2009-02-20, 08:47

i will pass on that then... thanks for the info :)

MeoTwister5

2009-02-20, 09:39

Don't even compare Shinji Ikari to Ryuuji, even for laughs. Shinji pretty much had a non-existent ego, his testicles had symbolically failed to descend, and pretty much THE ultimate manifestation of a completely pussywhipped human being. I didn't like Eva as much as the next guy, I've seen other shows do the Biblical aliterations better.

Still, Asuka is awesome, and I'd like to have sex with Rei.

H&C season 1 was great, but season 2 was so really meh. I was a few episodes in when I realized the plot and relations were barely moving so I skipped to the last 2 episodes, which I think really summed up the series. THAT'S how you do a non-paired ending, at least for the main cast.

Molenir

2009-02-20, 09:59

I saw coalgirls come out yesterday before coalguys? If so, I have a rather hard time believing that coalgirls is just an upscale of coalguys.

Meatrose

2009-02-20, 10:03

I saw coalgirls come out yesterday before coalguys? If so, I have a rather hard time believing that coalgirls is just an upscale of coalguys.

Guys: Date: Fri Feb 20 2009 03:31 GMT

girls: Date: Fri Feb 20 2009 12:07 GMT

physics223

2009-02-20, 10:13

Waven

2009-02-20, 10:18

Usually i don't like love triangles (yes triangle, not tetragon - ami is somewhat out of the game, sry) but this one is actually really well presented and not as clichéd and simple as in other run-of-the-mill series. This is what i like about the anime compared to the novel, because when i read the novel the impression of the focus on the triangle wasn't that intense - a single short episode can have such an impact for me to reflect once again on the plot as a whole.

Maciste

2009-02-20, 10:27

Guys: Date: Fri Feb 20 2009 03:31 GMT

girls: Date: Fri Feb 20 2009 12:07 GMT

No, he was referring to a file from CoalGirls, labeled as a CoalGuys release (but it wasn't their tracker and the comment directed to the CoalGirls channel on IRC).
So, it was a fake and, as far as I've heard/read, been infested with viruses.
It really came out before the "official" CoalGuys release, I'm not talking about the upscale which dropped later.

FeDeR

2009-02-20, 10:30

Definately Ryuji will end up with Taiga, because there are some notes when she smiles to him and he answers to her with smile as well at the beginning of last series. But the complete understanding of their feelings gonna happen in last 2 series. Following series gonna be one more battle for Minori's heart) Actually there is some little probability that Ami will stay with him... But i think and hope that Taiga gonna get a happiness that she was waiting for so long. I fully impressed that author succeed to give us so good emotional portrait of all heroes, especially Taiga. Little girl who wants to sacrifice her love to get her friend with beloved person.. It touched me so much. Actually I'm pretty determined that Ryuji will be with Taiga. Because it is most suitable final. He will also have one final talk with Minori I think. But it will not end up them to become lovers. I hope =). I'm quite inspired with Taiga so i can't imagine another final) I guess we will see soon wheither i am right or not

Liddo-kun

2009-02-20, 10:32

After watching this episode I'm liiking Taiga even more, she's really grown a lot emotionally throughout the series. Having the strength to wish for Ryuuji's happines over her own. That's just admirable.

It also seems that Ami has given up on Ryuuji already....

physics223

2009-02-20, 10:38

No, he was referring to a file from CoalGirls, labeled as a CoalGuys release (but it wasn't their tracker and the comment directed to the CoalGirls channel on IRC). So, it was a fake and, as far as I've heard/read, been infested with viruses. It really came out before the "official" CoalGuys release, I'm not talking about the upscale which dropped later.

Guess someone didn't believe me and awarded me negative reputation for it. :rolleyes:

FeDeR

2009-02-20, 10:51

It also seems that Ami has given up on Ryuuji already....
Not really) She just kinda angry on him that he did not listen to her useful(on my opinion) advices. Interesting thing is that she moves Ryuji to understanding that he in love with taiga and she loves him too. I don't think she wishes to help taiga) She actually want to show Ryuji that he needs mature girl. But i strongly think that we will see in episode 25 Ryuji and taiga together. And more important thing is that Taiga stops feel ashamed talking to Yusuko Himura, which proves that she decided who of them two she loves. And this person is Ryuji. I'm looking forward to 25th of Feb when new episode will come up)) I'm sure we will get extra info about possible finals and whole stream of plot.

wistfulloner

2009-02-20, 10:54

Ouch. I don't know how you keep so calm.

Liddo-kun

2009-02-20, 11:15

Not really) She just kinda angry on him that he did not listen to her useful(on my opinion) advices. Interesting thing is that she moves Ryuji to understanding that he in love with taiga and she loves him too. I don't think she wishes to help taiga) She actually want to show Ryuji that he needs mature girl. But i strongly think that we will see in episode 25 Ryuji and taiga together. And more important thing is that Taiga stops feel ashamed talking to Yusuko Himura, which proves that she decided who of them two she loves. And this person is Ryuji. I'm looking forward to 25th of Feb when new episode will come up)) I'm sure we will get extra info about possible finals and whole stream of plot.

I guess so... even back at the cave when Ami said that Ryuuji needs someone like her, she really means it. Unfortunately for Ami, the chain of events somehow lead to Ryuuji being closer to Taiga instead of being closer to her.

Ryuuji is trying to make progress with Minori so nothing is 100% sure.
Although I would agree that of the three girls, Taiga has the biggest chance of ending up with him.

FeDeR

2009-02-20, 11:19

Cover page means the song and video with all chars in the beginning.

BTW

I am not calm at all) It is most touching anime i ever seen, and i know, i will re look more and more.
I really hope that author ill not be so cruel to viewers to separate characters. Not in this genre style. It became my favorite anime.
I just analyze things from the rational point to predict what will happen. Also i do not think that smile of Taiga was goodbye. not at all. It was a smile of a girlfriend to a boy.

FeDeR

2009-02-20, 11:24

Ryuuji is trying to make progress with Minori so nothing is 100% sure.

Nah, he just did not come up to the thing taiga already understood. Minori will not allow him as well cuz she can't make Taiga suffer and she know about Taiga's feelings. It will just take some time for Ryuji to understand his true love. He already did come up with some thoughts in series about Taiga's father. So i hope he will remember that.

Fran~

2009-02-20, 11:25

Awww... i have this felling... 5 episodes to go and we're already missing Toradora...

Ryuuji is just making this to be sure about his feelings, but also because he doesn't want to waste Taiga's effort. Those two are so important to each other that it is almost breathtaking.

FeDeR

2009-02-20, 11:31

Fran~

2009-02-20, 13:24

It's ironic, i just see again the episode and i cant take off my mind how ironic is this, Minori is pushing Ryuuji to Taiga and Taiga is pushing him to Minori, besides, Taiga and Minori knows this. Minori is playing fool on Ryuuji (nothing has happen between us, you know Takasu-kun) and Taiga is playing adult on Ryuuji (I will take it from here on Ryuuji, i've grown up, so chase after Minori).

CaptGloval

2009-02-20, 13:47

Kinny Riddle

2009-02-20, 14:03

H&C season 1 was great, but season 2 was so really meh. I was a few episodes in when I realized the plot and relations were barely moving so I skipped to the last 2 episodes, which I think really summed up the series. THAT'S how you do a non-paired ending, at least for the main cast.

What are you talking about? Did you not notice Mayama had finally moved forward with Rika, leading to Ayumi to finally move on as well? Oh, I forgot, you SKIPPED and watched the end. :rolleyes:

While H&C1 is definitely better, I personally don't find H&C2 that bad. Speaking of which, the director for Toradora is Nagai Tatsuyuki, who happens to be the director of H&C2, so he's got experience in this genre at least.

Oh and, all you novel readers beyond volume 8, can you please stop spoiling? Not even with spoiler tags, because common sense dictates that spoiler tags in this thread are assumed to be for discussion of episode 20.

SageGaiGar

2009-02-20, 14:05

What's up with the Golgo 13 reference from Minori? Haven't watched that one so I wouldn't know.

What I do know is the "Kira!" moment was just for laughs (and they're doing it wrong actually). Unless of course the staff is implying that they have watched Macross Frontier and the staff knows how it ended... dun-dun-dun!

Delicious Epic trolling. :love:

Though a point to be made is [B]Do they have to?[B] I mean, we're expecting them to get into a relationship from one year? I get annoyed with this sort of all or nothing attitude. So what if they go their separate ways? And we're too early to be bitching about this, the series isn't over.

But still we do anyway, more I'm guessing to get a rise out of our fellow fans.

Well the Minorin ship still has sails, certainly took a broadside. Ami.. well I admire the effort to go down with the ship. And Taiga is taking evasive movement.

Now is this cut in stone? Likely not. I know that will try my best to shut up and enjoy the ride.

grey_moon

2009-02-20, 16:42

Come on Ryuuji wake up!!! Taiga bent over backwards for him with her dad. Shes totally changed herself for the better because of him. Unfortunately he now is repaying her by going for Minori for Taiga's sake *sigh*

I thought Taiga was going to act this way and it makes her breakdown so much more touching for it.

Taiga and Ryuuji act more like a married couple then most ppl do nowadays :p

kk2extreme

2009-02-20, 16:46

this reminds me of the event from onegai teacher, where the main couple trying to be mature and not hurting their friends around them, and im not going to get in details...

Captain Roronoa Zoro

2009-02-20, 17:00

so like is there like zero chance of ryuujixami i really support tht one but i dont see it happening now....

Mephiles

2009-02-20, 17:12

typhonsentra

2009-02-20, 17:14

Given how little time there is left for the show and the fact that he's never expressed anything outside of physical attraction, it'd be a little weird if he went with her. Plus she's kinda being a bitch to him (Not that that stopped him and Taiga).

Anh_Minh

2009-02-20, 17:33

At the beginning, Minori was the only girl (among her, Taiga and Ami, I mean) who didn't seem like a complete waste of time. Now, it's so goddamn hard to chose.

Captain Roronoa Zoro

2009-02-20, 17:34

ahhhgg how dissapoining... i guess i can partially enjoy the show now i guess

Vexx

2009-02-20, 17:44

Any chance of people actually discussing the story instead of just posting one line "AxB" demands? :P

Justin Kim

2009-02-20, 17:52

Lol, I cracked up:
Quote: "Not everything goes smoothly" *Chalk slice/ ninja break" lolol.

Plun

2009-02-20, 18:39

Is it me or is Taiga becoming non-Tsundere?

physics223

2009-02-20, 18:48

Taiga was never tsundere in the first place. She wasn't even fully tsun. I realized this recently, but her demeanor was primarily due to her being often misunderstood and misconstrued. When there were more people who did reach out to her and saw her fundamental niceness she didn't need to put up a facade of 'me vs. the world.' Ryuuji also heavily affected her relations with others, because while he was misunderstood and thought of as a bastard he never let it affect his niceness and his self. Taiga changed a lot because of Ryuuji, and this episode highlights that. Last episode was Taiga and her epiphany; she recognizes, however, the necessity of fulfilling her promise with Ryuuji despite that, so she's hurting herself heavily in the process.

Shikimori Kazuki

2009-02-20, 18:49

physics223

2009-02-20, 18:53

Kanou Sumire is a beautiful and intelligent chick, and in addition she also has a wonderful body. She's not as sexy as Ami, but she has the stuff. :)

To answer your question, it was her, and yes, she was a model.

Tri-ring

2009-02-20, 18:55

is it me or do i see Kanou Sumire in the magazine that Kitamura look at near the end? i dont understand why Kanou Sumire is in the Okinawa magazine, was she some sort of tour guide or model?:confused:

It was a past school record book concerning their field trip so Kano will natually be in it.

Fran~

2009-02-20, 19:00

TAIGA, TAIGA, TAIGA, TAIGA, TAIGA, TAIGA, TAIGA... Tired of hear her name, she's not the only character in this show.

I don't rlly like TaigaxRyuuji...but it can't be helped at this point. -_-U...

+FAV for Minorin, she's a love.

"Not everything goes smoothly"

Any chance of people actually discussing the story instead of just posting one line "AxB" demands? :P

I have nothing more to say ;)

physics223

2009-02-20, 19:00

Oh, was it? I thought it was a magazine, actually, with Sumire being featured as they didn't expect her to pop up.

Raiga

2009-02-20, 19:02

Lol, I cracked up:
Quote: "Not everything goes smoothly" *Chalk slice/ ninja break" lolol.

Man somebody oughta post a screenshot of that when people start flaming over pairings.

Fran~

2009-02-20, 19:06

Man somebody oughta post a screenshot of that when people start flaming over pairings.

I dont remember who pointed that Yuri sensei is some kind of Takemiya herself... but now makes me totally sense :heh:

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 19:14

Yuri-sensei does seem to be somewhat like a thinner Takemiya.

Fran~

2009-02-20, 19:15

Take this shippers!!!:

http://g.imagehost.org/0115/lolol.png

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 19:17

Great advice for real life too.

Fran~

2009-02-20, 19:19

Great advice for real life too.
Totally... i think that came directly from Takemiya's heart to her readers...

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 19:23

I just made this (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b314/Kaisos/motivator3060485.png), for the sake of redundancy.

SageGaiGar

2009-02-20, 19:27

I think the magazines were from previous classes, so she likely 'modeled' for one of the pictures. "Not everything goes smoothly in life" Damn right.

Fran~

2009-02-20, 19:34

I think the magazines were from previous classes, so she likely 'modeled' for one of the pictures.
They need to make a guidebook as an assignment, Kitamura brought some examples from previous trips... that's all.

DragoZERO

2009-02-20, 19:48

Yep they are. Ryuji is truthfully the closest person to Taiga. So they just must be together. Most difficult thing is that Minori also likes Ryuji. And now she gonna be miss lead by Taiga's going away from Ryuji. So she might have say yes to his effort. Also important is that Ryuiji does not understang Taiga's motives. He wonders what are her feelings to him. I can wish Minori will say to him Taiga's feelings)
Taiga and Ryuuji are close but not romantically (yet at least, who knows). They make a good brother and sister relationship if you ask me.

so like is there like zero chance of ryuujixami i really support tht one but i dont see it happening now....
/dissapointed.

Given how little time there is left for the show and the fact that he's never expressed anything outside of physical attraction, it'd be a little weird if he went with her. Plus she's kinda being a bitch to him (Not that that stopped him and Taiga).
She's being mean because she is well, left out sort of. She really has to give it a shot but I don't think anything will come of it.

Is it me or is Taiga becoming non-Tsundere?
Isn't that part of the meaning? The character slowly becomes soft and understanding and all.

I just made this (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b314/Kaisos/motivator3060485.png), for the sake of redundancy.
http://djforum.free.fr/smileysmileysmiley/v2/surprises/surprises.smileysmiley.com.54.gif

Fran~

2009-02-20, 19:55

Taiga and Ryuuji are close but not romantically (yet at least, who knows). They make a good brother and sister relationship if you ask me.

"Romantic" means a lot of things... so that could be true or false. But to me, they're living a Romance... not a pasionate one, but a relationship based on caring for each other, to the point of sacrifice things importants to them.

Jeshua

2009-02-20, 20:16

var <Taiga, Ami, Minorin, Ryujii>

Taiga_auto_sufficience == 1
(If Taiga_auto_sufficience = 1 then
while (void)
Ryujii hitson Minorin
Minorin_love==Minorin_love+1)
loop

end

I didn't program in years.
Taiga seems pretty much autosufficient now, and theres a HUGE difference between "needin'" someone, "wantin'" someone and "wantin' to be with" someone, "wanting to get to know" someone and, finally, "wanting to get known by" someone; I don't (can't, don't want to) interpret NEED = LOVE, as need is one lame one-sided feeling, and putting someone on the same level as air, food or sex - phisiological needs - doesn't sound romantic to me. (Rappers, Hip-Hop and R&B singers / composers out there can say the contrary, BUT...)

It's not about RIGHTS. to DESERVE something is to have RIGHT to it's possession - due to a contract. Well, to NEED someone = the right to be next to that person?!# ... Taiga has a hell of a way to go, yet, for me, to justify a "pairing" with Ryuuji. No matter how I look at it: They 're meant to be BFFF - no more, no less. And if a anime / light novel can make everyone end somewhat hapilly ever after (EXCEPT FOR THE FANS, I'm talking about the characters' happiness here)... Then it's worth my praise.

Ryu is awesome in this chapter. Minorin get four thumbs up from me. (feet and hands.).

9/10.
HAIL THE TIGER!

I got to read Pastel on the last few days and, after watching this episode of ToraDora!, I got to this conclusion:

I HATE FRIENDLY CHARACTERS THAT TRY TO PLAY CUPID.

Janifuu

2009-02-20, 20:39

TAIGA, TAIGA, TAIGA, TAIGA, TAIGA, TAIGA, TAIGA... Tired of hear her name, she's not the only character in this show.

I don't rlly like TaigaxRyuuji...but it can't be helped at this point. -_-U...

+FAV for Minorin, she's a love.

So much hostility. Did you not consider that Taiga's name is continuously brought up because, uuuuh, she plays an important role in the series, yet alone this discussion? Dum dee dummm.

Given how little time there is left for the show and the fact that he's never expressed anything outside of physical attraction, it'd be a little weird if he went with her. Plus she's kinda being a bitch to him (Not that that stopped him and Taiga).

I think its a given why shes being a bitch to him, being that shes trying to come up with whatever ways she can to push Ryuuji away from her so him and Minori can have a "chance" with one another. Being a bitch to him is another incentive for him to not want to pay so much focus on Taiga, which I don't really think will be to much avail, though nothings predictable at this point.

so like is there like zero chance of ryuujixami i really support tht one but i dont see it happening now....

:heh: Words of wisdom for you, quoted below.

Take this shippers!!!:

http://g.imagehost.org/0115/lolol.png

typhonsentra

2009-02-20, 21:04

I think its a given why shes being a bitch to him, being that shes trying to come up with whatever ways she can to push Ryuuji away from her so him and Minori can have a "chance" with one another. Being a bitch to him is another incentive for him to not want to pay so much focus on Taiga, which I don't really think will be to much avail, though nothings predictable at this point.

I don't think that's it, she was being mean to him even before she heard about the plan to have him hook up with Minori on the trip. Plus she seems to actually be angry at him for real ("I hope you're the only one that gets hurt.").

roan

2009-02-20, 21:07

I don't think that's it, she was being mean to him even before she heard about the plan to have him hook up with Minori on the trip. Plus she seems to actually be angry at him for real ("I hope you're the only one that gets hurt.").

Is that what Coalguys translated it as? It should have been in the past tense. She's saying that it would have been better if the only one that had been hurt was him, as in, he's not the only one that got hurt.

Vexx

2009-02-20, 21:19

DragoZERO

2009-02-20, 21:20

Is that what Coalguys translated it as? It should have been in the past tense. She's saying that it would have been better if the only one that had been hurt was him, as in, he's not the only one that got hurt.
And that's why even really minor errors can totally change the meaning of a scene.
It doesn't have to be past tense since there is more to come.

typhonsentra

2009-02-20, 21:21

Is that what Coalguys translated it as? It should have been in the past tense. She's saying that it would have been better if the only one that had been hurt was him, as in, he's not the only one that got hurt.

Oh, well that's a much less horrible. This entire time I was thinking she'd wished him ill will.

How can it be past tense when there is still so much more to happen? Its not over yet.
She would be referring to the Christmas Eve incident specifically, because they were talking about it at the beginning of the scene.

Fran~

2009-02-20, 21:26

Ami was saying that not only Ryuuji got hurt... she also, probably Taiga and Minori too.

Ryuuji doesn't have a clue that he is the truly ladies man :heh:

roan

2009-02-20, 21:29

And that's why even really minor errors can totally change the meaning of a scene.

I think I'm going to be rolling my eyes a lot if I look at the subs for this......

Janifuu

2009-02-20, 21:33

I don't think that's it, she was being mean to him even before she heard about the plan to have him hook up with Minori on the trip. Plus she seems to actually be angry at him for real ("I hope you're the only one that gets hurt.").

Oh my mistake! I thought you were referring to Taiga, not Ami :) In that case then yes haha.

typhonsentra

2009-02-20, 21:34

They're the only ones working on it too. Why the hell did everyone else drop this series anyway?

Raiga

2009-02-20, 21:38

I just checked, and the tense according to the Coalguys subtitles is "getting hurt"... which I suppose isn't too bad since it doesn't really imply a future sense and sort of implies a past imperfect sense as well as the present... though it probably would have been clearer just to translate it as a past tense.

Eh, there's always gonna be something lost in translation. That's why I want to learn Japanese...

Mughi

2009-02-20, 21:55

"Romantic" means a lot of things... so that could be true or false. But to me, they're living a Romance... not a passionate one, but a relationship based on caring for each other, to the point of sacrifice things important to them.

I think this is a good point.

The "real" definition of marriage is pairing with a mate who has the capacity to hold the baggage you won't deal with about yourself... Until such time that you both reclaim and deal with that baggage sufficient to move forward in life. Then the pair can move forward together in balance. If one reclaims their stuff, but the other doesn't, this can cause a rift, (I out grew her.) or if one tires of carrying the other's stuff for too many years, then it causes a rift. (He'll never grow up.) In many ways, this is what Taiga and Ryuji do for one another.

Stand back and look at the relations... Ryuji has no Dad, but he gets to model one for Taiga, and be FOR someone what he never got. (All the cooking and cleaning is simply a way of protecting her) Taiga has absent parents. Ryuji fills that role for her emotionally, but at the same time accepts him for who he is, without judging why and how he does it. Additionally, she's not put off by his appearance as many are. They "compliment" each other... and as such, they are growing within themselves through each other. In other words, they are in a sense already married.

However, they are also young and fulfill sibling roles for each other as well... Ryuji supporting Taiga in her quest for Kitamura, or to be "good" for Santa. Taiga by supporting Ryuji in his attempts to reach out to Minori, and be accepted.

Minori obviously cares for them both and is torn by it. She hides behind her "strange/genki" exterior and hates herself for it even as she does it. She curses Taiga under her breath, revealing her stress at being forced to continue putting on her "happy face" for Ryuji while carrying the bag, but clearly she enjoys the opportunity to get closer to him as well...

Ami seems attracted to Ryuji merely because he sees her and accepts her as she is, in a genuine way. It's not so much that he's dense, but rather indifferent to her advances. And her advances are very half-hearted. She likes the idea of having someone like her in a genuine way, with no pretense about her noterity or looks, but there is clearly no spark between the two of them. Instead she has become a kind of conscious for him, reminding him to consider how his decisions and actions do effect those around him, and in this latest episode, can hurt those whom he thinks he's protecting or loving...

Logic has little bearing on relations. This scenario can go either way at this point. From his point, it all depends on how Ryuji values and understands (or holds) his relationship with Taiga. If Ryuji really is dependent on her, but sees her as a sister, then the big brother instinct to keep her safe and away from others, (including kitamura) will kick in, but still allow him to persue his love in Minori. If instead he is dependent on Taiga in a deeper, mated way, then he will eventually see his love for Minori as "puppy love" and clearly change his focus to Taiga as a lover.

Taiga also has some internalizing to do. Was her infatuation with Kitamura a crush? Is her connection to Ryuji deeper than she had thought? It is noble to defer to your friend's love rather than usurp it for your own intentions, but if you truly & deeply love your friend as more, where is the honor in pushing them away?

And for Minori, is it better to give your potential lover over to a friend before you're even able to explore your own feelings? Is denying your feelings and keeping them behind a mask the most healthy thing for you to do? Could you let them loose even if it would hurt your friend when you open yourself up?

The next few episodes should be very interesting. A lot of personal soul searching needs to happen. It looks like its building up to Ryuji and Minori finally coming clean with their feelings about each other, followed by a resolution as to how Ryuji and Taiga see one another... Then the chips will fall.

Vexx

2009-02-20, 22:16

They're the only ones working on it too. Why the hell did everyone else drop this series anyway?

"real life" is just interfering, methinks. I've not had a chance to really listen to the episode yet... so I can't really say if any errors have been made. I was only pointing out how even a slip of tense can seriously change the intent of a piece of dialog.

Ryuou

2009-02-20, 22:44

Hey there everyone. I've been roaming around this forum for years and finally decided to register. I guess I got tired of just reading along without being able to say or ask anything. I figured this would be a good place to start off. Unfortunately I kind of caught the end of the discussion on this episode.

Is that what Coalguys translated it as? It should have been in the past tense. She's saying that it would have been better if the only one that had been hurt was him, as in, he's not the only one that got hurt.
Yeah roan is right. The tense matters as if affects the meaning and the sharpness of what Ami was saying. The translations make her sound much harsher towards Ryuji. Also, what she says refers back to the conversation they had back in the gym storage room, which Ryuji didn't understand at all, and is why she currently "hates" him and thinks he's stupid. Thus her little “you wouldn’t understand cause your stupid” remark before she left.

Fran~

2009-02-20, 23:18

stormy001_M1A2

2009-02-20, 23:27

Ryuou

2009-02-20, 23:38

I dont know japanese and even im not fluent in english, but i think i cant understand Ami's point... and i think that i could do it because i can understand Ami's feelings, but she is doing the wrong approach.

She must be direct... she even knows how stupid is Ryuuji, but if she knows that, why she doesnt tell him about her feelings... then, she is even more stupid than Ryuuji. Do you mean you don't understand what she was trying to say back at the gym storage room, or you don't understand her approach with Ryuji? I don't think she's being stupid, just scared or rather reserved. She doesn't see that she has a chance so she doesn't want to put herself out there and risk getting hurt.

Fran~

2009-02-20, 23:42

She can't be direct since she also have emotional "investment" in this, hence she resorted to snarky comments to throw him off as form of her punishment of him for being too indifferent to her feelings in the whole setup.
Ok, but is that helpful at all?... that's what i think she is doing wrong, the comments to Ryuuji, the way she made fun about Sumire's pic are things that doesn't help her at all...

Do you mean you don't understand what she was trying to say back at the gym storage room, or you don't understand her approach with Ryuji? I don't think she's being stupid, just scared or rather reserved. She doesn't see that she has a chance so she doesn't want to put herself out there and risk getting hurt.
No, i mean that i understood both things.
Ok, maybe she isnt stupid, but she is getting hurt anyway... so, what's her point?, maybe it would be a relief to be sincere with Ryuuji, even with Taiga, because Taiga is asking her painful things like to stay away from Ryuuji.

Sinfully Naomi

2009-02-20, 23:44

Ami's hair was cute in this episode. :3

Raiga

2009-02-20, 23:45

Ok, but is that helpful at all?... that's what i think she is doing wrong, the comments to Ryuuji, the way she made fun about Sumire's pic are things that doesn't help her at all...

Can't help but think of the lyrics to Vanilla Salt...

Bonta Kun

2009-02-20, 23:46

I dont know japanese and even im not fluent in english, but i think i cant understand Ami's point... and i think that i could do it because i can understand Ami's feelings, but she is doing the wrong approach.

She must be direct... she even knows how stupid is Ryuuji, but if she knows that, why she doesnt tell him about her feelings... then, she is even more stupid than Ryuuji.

oh you know its all thats "a tiger throws her newborn in to a deep hole" stuff, learn from your mistakes kinda stuff

either something like that or its all part of Ami-chan's big master plan "snare the hopeless idiot"
For when Ryuuji messes everything up with Taiga and Minori, all hes left with is Ami-chan. Thats when Ami-chan will open her arms and say "I told you so" and Ryuuji being the idiot he is, won't think too much about it and think "yea she really did" and embrace Ami-chan.
Then they live happily ever after!

RAWR! Ami-chan has snared her prey!

Fran~

2009-02-20, 23:56

Can't help but think of the lyrics to Vanilla Salt...
Yes... the song pretty much gives me the answer to my question...

oh you know its all thats "a tiger throws her newborn in to a deep hole" stuff, learn from your mistakes kinda stuff

either something like that or its all part of Ami-chan's big master plan "snare the hopeless idiot"
For when Ryuuji messes everything up with Taiga and Minori, all hes left with is Ami-chan. Thats when Ami-chan will open her arms and say "I told you so" and Ryuuji being the idiot he is, won't think too much about it and think "yea she really did" and embrace Ami-chan.
Then they live happily ever after!

RAWR! Ami-chan has snared her prey!
It sounds like a plan made by Harima Kenji :heh:

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-20, 23:59

Can't help but think of the lyrics to Vanilla Salt...

The entire point of the show.

Ryuou

2009-02-20, 23:59

No, i mean that i understood both things.
Ok, maybe she isnt stupid, but she is getting hurt anyway... so, what's her point?, maybe it would be a relief to be sincere with Ryuuji, even with Taiga, because Taiga is asking her painful things like to stay away from Ryuuji.
Well not everyone will necessarily feel better after confessing and getting rejected. The whole "leave no regrets" and "it was better to have loved and lost, then to never have loved at all" aren't universal rules. If she thinks it's better to bottle things up and try and get over it, then we can't say that her choice is wrong unless it starts to really affect her.

I can't help but feel that Ami might have the scenario that Bonta Kun laid out in the back of her mind somewhere. Some possible guilty wishful thinking on her part.

stormy001_M1A2

2009-02-21, 00:12

Ok, but is that helpful at all?... that's what i think she is doing wrong, the comments to Ryuuji, the way she made fun about Sumire's pic are things that doesn't help her at all...

Helpful? I don't think she gives a shit. She is just want to snap back since she is pouting major big time in this episode due lack of attention from someone. We all know who is that someone.

That's how I interpret Ami right now.

When comes to emotion, 1+1 does not necessarily equals to 2. People do random things according to feedback or lack of it.

wistfulloner

2009-02-21, 00:18

I can't really see any more character development for Ami. Right now, it seems she has really hit a dead end. I mean, Ami can't possibly get any more indifferent than now, nor can she easily become satisfied.

Waiting for EP21 to prove me wrong.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-21, 00:24

Ryuou

2009-02-21, 00:41

Ami's development has been pretty much done since the Vol. 4 arc, for that matter.
I don't know exactly what the last episodes will bring but we probably won't be getting much if any development for Ami. It's unfortunate as she's an interesting character who could have been used more in the story. Not that I'm shipping (some posters seem to be sensitive about this) but it's a missed/wasted opportunity.

Pellissier

2009-02-21, 01:57

Toradora! - Spoilers & Speculation (for experienced Toradorians only) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=73043)

Novel readers, when you have a doubt about the parallelism anime/novels, and need to confirm it with your companions, please use the above thread. It's there for that purpose solely.
Even if the anime won't mention certain events, it remains the fact that they weren't shown, and we don't we if it's "they weren't shown yet" or "they weren't shown comma " .

This thread is for anime discussion only. I've only deleted posts for this time, but I will be less lenient if I see speculating novel posts in this and in the future episode threads again.

FeDeR

2009-02-21, 02:09

Actually I think Taiga already got the idea that she loves Ryuuji more than somebody else, and this explains why she speaks so freely to Kitamura in last episode - it is because she is sure about who she loves, but at the same point she is not sure what Ryuuji is feeling to her (me either) so for her this last attempt to get Minorin to be with Ryuuji is also way to find out what he feels to her. As for Ami, I think she is character who will push Ryuuji to get closer with Taiga. And this is her role in serial I think. Because all situations with Taiga, Ryuuji and Ami participation are getting Taiga and Ryuuji closer. So we will see some fun in next episode and it will remove little shadow from final of ToraDora! . I expect 25 episode to be extremely cool even better than 19th. And i really think that Ryuuji will stay with Taiga or with Minorin and Taiga will play role of their "Kodomo". But everythink speaks that he will stay with Taiga....

Also in her talk to Kitamura in the beginning she speaks about Ryuuji so sensitively that I think Taiga loves him not only as "Brother" '' Father'' or smth. It really points tht she fell in love with him... It will be a pity if they wll end up separate

Waking_Dreamer

2009-02-21, 02:15

I really liked this episode!

Finally some of that charm from the earlier episodes! Too much gloom and doom in the last episode.

Also deserving Minorin and Ryuuji interaction...muwhahaha. :D :p

That is all.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-21, 02:18

I don't know exactly what the last episodes will bring but we probably won't be getting much if any development for Ami. It's unfortunate as she's an interesting character who could have been used more in the story. Not that I'm shipping (some posters seem to be sensitive about this) but it's a missed/wasted opportunity.

She has a specific role to play and she's playing it.

Characters like her are only interesting BECAUSE they're side characters, I might note. I really don't think Ami could be a truly main character...

grey_moon

2009-02-21, 02:32

FeDeR

2009-02-21, 02:38

Nah she is not ) she is just waiting her chance) She knows Ryuuji will reject her now) And as it was said she is side char who helps ryuuji to get along with Taiga) She always make them closer)

Anh_Minh

2009-02-21, 04:09

Do you mean you don't understand what she was trying to say back at the gym storage room, or you don't understand her approach with Ryuji? I don't think she's being stupid, just scared or rather reserved. She doesn't see that she has a chance so she doesn't want to put herself out there and risk getting hurt.

I don't think that's it at all. She's trying to teach Ryuuji something, because his delusions are getting everyone hurt - even before Christmas, it was already happening to Minori, and then it got to Taiga and Ryuji himself. The problem is that she doesn't think telling him straight out is going to help any. It's just going to push him further into denial.

So she hints. And he doesn't get it. And she gets frustrated. Really, she wants him to face his own feelings. For Taiga, for Minori. So everyone gets out of it as painlessly as possible. And if he could realize she's the best for him, it'd be a nice bonus. But that's secondary.

BetoJR

2009-02-21, 04:17

What delusions? Liking a girl for a fairly long time? Is that a delusion, now?

Anh_Minh

2009-02-21, 04:32

That he doesn't have any kind of romantic feelings for Taiga. Or she for him.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-21, 05:09

That he doesn't have any kind of romantic feelings for Taiga. Or she for him.

Unfortunately for your perception of events, the plot says otherwise.

FeDeR

2009-02-21, 05:23

I donno about Ruyji if he has but Taiga definitely will be agree to be his girlfriend. As for him I can't say about romantic feelings but it is clear that Taiga is most important girl in his life, especially because he is doing last attempt to get minori confess mostly because Taiga sacrifices his guardiance to help him. So i think author is now getting him to decide who he likes most and who he will choose

BetoJR

2009-02-21, 07:45

That he doesn't have any kind of romantic feelings for Taiga. Or she for him.
How can a person be delusional about something they haven't even acknowledged, yet? This whole delusional, dense, whatever harem-male-lead characteristics people normally tend to throw around about some types of series doesn't really apply to this one.

Of course he has feelings for Taiga. But he hasn't really thought about it, as of now. How can that mean he has "delusions", I still don't know...

Waven

2009-02-21, 08:35

How can a person be delusional about something they haven't even acknowledged, yet? This whole delusional, dense, whatever harem-male-lead characteristics people normally tend to throw around about some types of series doesn't really apply to this one.

Of course he has feelings for Taiga. But he hasn't really thought about it, as of now. How can that mean he has "delusions", I still don't know...

Refering to Ryūji, his tunnel vision for Minorin while caring more for Taiga seems pretty delusional to me, this imbalance between his conscious liking for Minorin and, I dare say, 'real' feelings for Taiga buried in his subconsciousness has always been striking. It's almost the exact mirror of recent Taiga - Kitamura development, she can now easily talk to him for she is now (watch out, cheesy description:D) feeling with her heart not with her head anymore as opposed to Ryūji who has yet to take this step.

BetoJR

2009-02-21, 08:53

Waven

2009-02-21, 09:22

The point is: he has to make that first step of noticing his feelings, if they're even there (I happen to think they are, but not everyone sees this as so). No matter how you (in general) feel, he hasn't acknowledged his feelings for Taiga, yet. If he had, I'd have no problem with categorizing him as delusional. As it stands, now? Not so much...

The guy has a crush, people. Probably the first he's ever had. Give him a break, will ya? :heh:

Since there's a broad range of meaning for the term delusion from let's say misinterpretation to madness i even dare to say every crush is a delusion for it is usually not based on reason which is not bad at all though. You probably have delusion as something negative in mind which often can be the case but it can come with a neutral meaning as well, that's why i wanted to show why one could say he's delusional, in a very human and natural way, no citizism involved. ;)

Fran~

2009-02-21, 10:12

Fellas... please, try to read this...

Toradora! - Spoilers & Speculation (for experienced Toradorians only) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=73043)

Novel readers, when you have a doubt about the parallelism anime/novels, and need to confirm it with your companions, please use the above thread. It's there for that purpose solely.
Even if the anime won't mention certain events, it remains the fact that they weren't shown, and we don't we if it's "they weren't shown yet" or "they weren't shown comma " .

This thread is for anime discussion only. I've only deleted posts for this time, but I will be less lenient if I see speculating novel posts in this and in the future episode threads again.

That's why i posted about to be away from the forums to the people who doesn't read the novel.

Seriously...

Miles Teg

2009-02-21, 10:14

...Spoilers...

You should remove spoiler from the novel from this thread, if you want to know why then read the first post of this thread or this one -> http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2229065&postcount=201

Fran~

2009-02-21, 10:14

You must edit that too :heh: (remove the quote).

BetoJR

2009-02-21, 10:15

FeDeR, I'd advise you to not throw around novel spoilers so freely, like that. You'll get told by a mod and spoil the fun for some people.

And Waven, I'd have to disagree with you. A delusion is a (fixed) belief in something that is false - and please, let's leave all the psycho/neurological discussion for another time, shall we? :heh:
How can we say that some feelings are more true than others, with a mere cursory glance? If we can fool ourselves, how can we be sure of other people's feelings? That's all I have to say on the subject, really... :D

Fran~

2009-02-21, 10:28

IMHO, feelings arent true or false... they just exist or not exist.

BetoJR

2009-02-21, 10:32

Fran~

2009-02-21, 10:47

Ami's definition was accurate, Ryuuji is playing house, so his most superficial thoughts are like he is the father, Minori the mother and Taiga the daughter... but now that Taiga is clear about her feelings and she is changing for good, i think that Ryuuji is seeing a totally different Taiga...

It can be helped... they are getting closer and closer...

Voitan

2009-02-21, 13:40

I agree with Master Chibi's statement... I personally like Ami alot as well but my god, do you seriously think there's even a remote chance for Ami and Ryuuji to suddenly pair up at this point? How the hell does that make any sense...

I'm going to assume you're making that statement towards posters in general who haven't gotten a clue from the title of the show yet, and not me.

Otherwise, it'd be a very patronising statement and one not related to my post which I'm assuming Master Chibi got off on for reasons for his own.

Anh_Minh

2009-02-21, 14:13

Exactly. So, what Ryuji feels towards Minorin can only be compared to what he feels or Taiga. Even if one or the other eventually fades away, the feelings were real, at some point. So, to call him delusional is bit much, IMHO.

He's delusional about the nature of their feelings, their relationship. He thinks it's innocent and, in a way, shallow. Without consequences. He is, as Ami said a couple of times, playing house.

Change of subject: whose broken heart do you think Taiga was praying for? Her own, or Ryuji's?

Fran~

2009-02-21, 14:22

He's delusional about the nature of their feelings, their relationship. He thinks it's innocent and, in a way, shallow. Without consequences. He is, as Ami said a couple of times, playing house.
I think that everybody here said that Ami is right about the house game and probably you are right, Ryuuji is innocent, in fact Ami could be teasing him to death, like in her summer house and the shower joke, because Ryuuji is unexpert in life, until Taiga arrives his only "friends" were Kitamura and until some point Haruta and Noto, but the whole time he was trying to not scare the rest of the school and people avoid him... so... it's natural to Ryuuji be innocent, in fact, he -same as Taiga- is growing up everyday.

Change of subject: whose broken heart do you think Taiga was praying for? Her own, or Ryuji's?
Hmmm, in new years people go to temples for ask for a good year, it's a japanese costume.

Anh_Minh

2009-02-21, 14:24

No, I meant the part where she prayed to "the God of Broken Hearts". She has no reason to ask Kitamura for a good year.

Ryuou

2009-02-21, 14:37

She has a specific role to play and she's playing it.

Characters like her are only interesting BECAUSE they're side characters, I might note. I really don't think Ami could be a truly main character...
She certainly is playing her part in the story. But really? I think they could have easily written a story with her as the lead, keeping things much the same way they are. And I'm not quite sure what you mean by her being a side character makes her interesting. If she was a main character we could've gotten more time to explore her character.

I don't think that's it at all. She's trying to teach Ryuuji something, because his delusions are getting everyone hurt - even before Christmas, it was already happening to Minori, and then it got to Taiga and Ryuji himself. The problem is that she doesn't think telling him straight out is going to help any. It's just going to push him further into denial.

So she hints. And he doesn't get it. And she gets frustrated. Really, she wants him to face his own feelings. For Taiga, for Minori. So everyone gets out of it as painlessly as possible. And if he could realize she's the best for him, it'd be a nice bonus. But that's secondary.
Oh no, I know what she was talking about during that scene. The second half of my statement was in reply to Fran~ saying Ami was being stupid for not being honest with her feelings.

And I was just thinking about mentioning what Anh Minh brought up. I saw it as her praying to the Broken Hearts God that is Kitamura, for Ryuji and Minori to work out. At this point in time, her focus is still on them two getting together so it would be odd for her to be praying for something else.

@ Anh Minh - Your little title under your username is hilarious.

P.S. How come the quotes are being automatically split up?

Fran~

2009-02-21, 14:55

No, I meant the part where she prayed to "the God of Broken Hearts". She has no reason to ask Kitamura for a good year.
Oh, i get it... probably for all hearts of the entire world... :heh:

P.S. How come the quotes are being automatically split up?
Just click the "+quote" at the right bottom of the post you wanna quote: http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.style/default/buttons/multiquote_off.gif

Then click the normal quote bottom in the last post you wanna qoute and that's all. :)

Anh_Minh

2009-02-21, 14:58

And I was just thinking about mentioning what Anh Minh brought up. I saw it as her praying to the Broken Hearts God that is Kitamura, for Ryuji and Minori to work out. At this point in time, her focus is still on them two getting together so it would be odd for her to be praying for something else.

But OTOH, since she hopes they'll work out, they don't really fall under the purview of the God of Broken Hearts.

Ryuou

2009-02-21, 15:25

Just click the "+quote" at the right bottom of the post you wanna quote:

Then click the normal quote bottom in the last post you wanna qoute and that's all.
I did, well sort of. I opened up the quote in another window and then copied and pasted it into where I was typing. But for some reason it kept putting an ending and starting quote thing in the middle of the quotes. Even if I deleted them and saved the post it would just come right back. Weird.

But OTOH, since she hopes they'll work out, they don't really fall under the purview of the God of Broken Hearts.
I don't think that's how it works. I'd have to go back and check that episode out to be sure, but I think Kitamura (as the embodiment of broken hearts) can be prayed to by those whose love life isn't going well, and by those wishing for theirs (or someone else's) to go well. I can't say this as a definite, but that's the impression I got. Sort of like "please don't let them/me end up like you Kitamura-sama". As mean as that sounds.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-21, 15:40

No, I meant the part where she prayed to "the God of Broken Hearts". She has no reason to ask Kitamura for a good year.

You know, I didn't get that at all. Dammit.

She certainly is playing her part in the story. But really? I think they could have easily written a story with her as the lead, keeping things much the same way they are. And I'm not quite sure what you mean by her being a side character makes her interesting. If she was a main character we could've gotten more time to explore her character.

Ami is the sort of character who really doesn't work as a main character. Or rather, the sort of character that's never a main character because her type of character works BETTER as the fifth wheel role.

Ami, somewhat ironically, isn't screwed up enough for a main character role, especially in a series like this.

Besides, if you wrote a story about her opposite a male lead, it would be a) Over quickly, and b) Mahou Kanojo-esque wish fulfillment because Male Lead Q would get a girlfriend who's an idol. Not really a good premise.

Ami is fantastic because of who she is already. I wouldn't screw with it...

physics223

2009-02-21, 15:47

You know, I didn't get that at all. Dammit.

Ami is the sort of character who really doesn't work as a main character. Or rather, the sort of character that's never a main character because her type of character works BETTER as the fifth wheel role.

Ami, somewhat ironically, isn't screwed up enough for a main character role, especially in a series like this.

Besides, if you wrote a story about her opposite a male lead, it would be a) Over quickly, and b) Mahou Kanojo-esque wish fulfillment because Male Lead Q would get a girlfriend who's an idol. Not really a good premise.

Ami is fantastic because of who she is already. I wouldn't screw with it...

Kimagure Orange Road would disagree with you.

Vexx

2009-02-21, 15:50

I think they could have easily written a story...Also, its not a "they" .... there's one author of the work and she's a she. The anime adaptation was written by a team, yes, and they're pinning the adaptation tightly to the light novel series (though they're restricted rather tightly by the time allotment).

Ya'll keep wanting a different story.... sounds like non-canon doujinshi opportunities.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-21, 15:56

Kimagure Orange Road would disagree with you.

How so?

Ya'll keep wanting a different story.... sounds like non-canon doujinshi opportunities.

Why don't they just find a different show? Sounds like a good idea to me...

Miles Teg

2009-02-21, 15:59

How so?

Probably a comparison between Ami and Madoka Ayukawa, but I don't really see what they have in common.

Ryuou

2009-02-21, 17:05

Ami is the sort of character who really doesn't work as a main character. Or rather, the sort of character that's never a main character because her type of character works BETTER as the fifth wheel role.

Ami, somewhat ironically, isn't screwed up enough for a main character role, especially in a series like this.

Besides, if you wrote a story about her opposite a male lead, it would be a) Over quickly, and b) Mahou Kanojo-esque wish fulfillment because Male Lead Q would get a girlfriend who's an idol. Not really a good premise.

Ami is fantastic because of who she is already. I wouldn't screw with it...
Okay, I see what you're saying now, but I'd have to say I don't agree with you. Although I get what you're saying about having certain types of characters be better off as outside roles, there's no reason that Ami couldn't be the main character. There's enough to her character to build a story around and make it interesting. In the same way they could have made Minori the main, instead of Taiga.

And the story wouldn't be over quickly because they could have it set up almost exactly as it is already. She falls for an unlikely guy because he doesn't grovel at her feet like everyone else. Her advances get turned away because he only thinks she's teasing him. And then there's the problem with the neighbor girl he's very close with, and the classmate that he idolizes. The story wouldn’t end on the first chapter.
Also, its not a "they" .... there's one author of the work and she's a she. The anime adaptation was written by a team, yes, and they're pinning the adaptation tightly to the light novel series (though they're restricted rather tightly by the time allotment).

Ya'll keep wanting a different story.... sounds like non-canon doujinshi opportunities.
Yeah I know. I wrote "they" because I was trying to say if "someone" wanted to...I wasn't necessarily talking about the author re-writing the story.

Fran~

2009-02-21, 17:06

Probably a comparison between Ami and Madoka Ayukawa, but I don't really see what they have in common.
KOR is totally different of Toradora and Madoka and Ami are even more different.
Besides Kyosuke is also different to Ryuuji... in KOR it was basically a Triangle, i think that KOR is more like Macross Frontier than Toradora...

:heh:

Mughi

2009-02-21, 17:07

...Ami is the sort of character who really doesn't work as a main character. Or rather, the sort of character that's never a main character because her type of character works BETTER as the fifth wheel role....

It seems to me that every time a character like Ami is the main character, its in a Shojo story, and ToraDora is a little more Seinen.

SageGaiGar

2009-02-21, 17:11

typhonsentra

2009-02-21, 17:23

Ami's plenty messed up. She lives alone, has serious trust issues.... she's basically the exact same character as Taiga except she fancies herself a mentor figure some of the time.

Ryuou

2009-02-21, 17:43

Yeah it seems like some of you guys are under the impression that a story has to be written with a male lead that’s too shallow to notice the personality flaws behind the main girl’s pretty face.

miroku2192

2009-02-21, 17:46

man, now i feel REALLY REALLY bad for ami :(.

as for the episode, man taiga has made some BIIGGGG improvements, and i thought it was so cute when minorin was like "damn that taiga, damn that taiga damn that taiga" haha.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-21, 18:32

Yeah it seems like some of you guys are under the impression that a story has to be written with a male lead that’s too shallow to notice the personality flaws behind the main girl’s pretty face.

Did I say that?

I will say, however, that a lot of stories of this kind only work if the male lead is like that. Which School Days attempted to point out.

DragoZERO

2009-02-21, 19:29

Did I say that?

I will say, however, that a lot of stories of this kind only work if the male lead is like that. Which School Days attempted to point out.
Well, while the protagonist being like that is required what sets most series apart is how quick, if at all, the protagonist wises up. And I hated School Days. It was dreadful. Its ending turned my stomach and actually ruined my appetite for a few days. And not because of the bloody end, just the series as a whole and what happened.

Ryuou

2009-02-21, 21:00

Yeah I thought School Days was horrible also.

Did I say that?

I will say, however, that a lot of stories of this kind only work if the male lead is like that. Which School Days attempted to point out.
No you didn't. It was mainly some other members. But I couldn't help but feel that you might have been hinting at that line of thought. My apologizes if you weren’t. I don't think it's the only way to get them to work, but the easiest. The creators are just being lazy with the story telling. The more indecisive and retarded the lead is, the easier it is to tell a story with many options for that lead. But are you trying to say that Toradora! is a harem anime?

Vexx

2009-02-21, 21:14

Actually, a number of us (including Kaisos) have been working pretty hard to try and get it across that this *isn't* a harem story (which is why the Honey&Clover comparison was brought up, Lov*Com has also been mentioned). Its an ensemble cast story around a core romance based on a novel series. Yet people keep trying to map into the "usual harem simple story line".

Kaisos Erranon

2009-02-21, 21:17

The creators are just being lazy with the story telling. The more indecisive and retarded the lead is, the easier it is to tell a story with many options for that lead. But are you trying to say that Toradora! is a harem anime?

Technically, it's not so much the writers being lazy as they are following tradition.

And Toradora, while not a harem anime per se, is LIKE a harem anime. As in, it has much of the trappings of one.

However, it is written very differently, rather more like a shoujo anime than anything else.

Actually, a number of us (including Kaisos) have been working pretty hard to try and get it across that this *isn't* a harem story (which is why the Honey&Clover comparison was brought up, Lov*Com has also been mentioned). Its an ensemble cast story around a core romance based on a novel series. Yet people keep trying to map into the "usual harem simple story line".

Well, that is because it does have 3 girls all in love with one guy.

But yeah, it's shoujo with a male protagonist.

Ryuou

2009-02-21, 21:31

I've noticed Lov*Com come up a couple times, but I don't see how it's similiar. I'd say that H&C is a lot closer.

Technically, it's not so much the writers being lazy as they are following tradition.

And Toradora, while not a harem anime per se, is LIKE a harem anime. As in, it has much of the trappings of one.

However, it is written very differently, rather more like a shoujo anime than anything else.

Following tradition? That's an interesting way to put it. I still think it's a tradition built on laziness and (unfortunately) success.

I also think it's similar but not at all a harem anime. It's just whenever you have more than 2 characters liking the same character, it's bound to shoot off harem vibes. What trappings are you referring to by the way? Although I'd say it's similar to a harem anime in its appearance and feel at times, the way it's run is quite different.

FeDeR

2009-02-21, 21:40

Lol ppl, first of all, srry for spoiler. I promise this never gonna happen again.

I was thinking a lot about ToraDora plot, and little features. I came to conclusion that actually authors have now 2 ways: first is to use Minorin character and Ami character to push Ryuji to Taiga, and ensure that Taiga will not run away, second way is really lame IMHO because it is ending with open story leaving all stuff for 2nd season. I can only hope 2nd is not gonna happen. It will just make this anime too long and uninteresting. Look on Death Note - It is as cool as Jennifer Lopes' butt xD and this is all thanks to endng on 32 episode and i might say cool ending.
Also i wanna say why i only recognize taiga x ryuuji ending. Actually i will like this ending most but there are some reasons to think this gonna happen.
First is Taiga now knows her own feelings so she will try to use any chance if she will be given.
Second Minori feelings to Takasu are not as strong as Taiga's, she like him but he didn't play such a HUGE part of her life, so she will also try to push him to Taiga.
Third Ami will push Ryuuji to reveal his feelings and wrk on them. And the last one is that Ryuuji says while talking to Taiga that "It may be a waste effort" which shows us enough clearly that he really wants to get Taiga back to normal life...
So we have 2 characters (Minori, Ami) who will work to make Ryuuji to realise his feelings, one character who firstly gonna push Ryuuji to Minori ( taiga) but something sould happen between Taiga and ami or minori. Some kind of serious talk. So Taiga will also be pushed towards to Ryuuji. And her trying best by herself will remind her of ryuuji more and more so soon she will gonna get herself hurt or go after him. =) Waiting next episodes by the way r they gonna launch it on 25th?
And is it real that they gonna finish it all on 25th of may? if yes it is soooo loooong='( I just fell in love with this romantic comedy. I can't wait!!!