Clannad series - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating

[Klashikari]

This thread is to be used for discussing the entirety of CLANNAD series (both first season and After Story)... your thoughts about the show, overall impressions, speculation on the possible DVD only bonus episodes, etc., etc…

A few subjects you might want to ramble on about:

General impression of the series.
Opinions on the overall story, writing & plot devices.
Thoughts about the animation quality.
Will there be additional DVD only episodes and what will they contain.
How did the anime compare with the game?
Characters/Character Design
What the show meant to you.
What could the creators/animators/writers could have done better.

And so on.

The poll represents your total series rating. In other words, how you would rate all the episodes combined (1-10)? If you'd rather rate the whole series by technical/artistic merits, you can do so. An example:

Animation Quality: 1-10
Voice Actors: 1-10
Script: 1-10
Adaptation from Game: 1-10
Editing: 1-10

Average = Total Series Rating

Or a combination of the two. Or your general gut feeling.

Please note that CLANNAD ~AFTER STORY~ will not have its own thread. Instead, the franchise will be used as a whole. Therefore, please keep in mind that you are rating the first season and the second season of the whole story of CLANNAD, hence many points and situations from After Story should be reconsidered with the given backstory of the first season and vice versa.

[Kristen]

So then, after almost 2 years of anticipating, watching, anticipating, watching, playing, speculating, hoping, and following Clannad, it finally comes to an end. And there is just one word to describe it that has often been used to describe it. Epic.

On the outside, the story seemed like just a guy meets a girl, they fall in love, she has a problem, he solves it. But once you start getting into the story, you realize how deep and complicated the story actually is. Out of all the Key games, this really is the first one where not only the female characters have problems, but the male leads also have problems surrounding their lives. Tomoya is a delinquent. His father is a drunkard. He has no future, and so on. In helping the girls resolve their issues, he's not just resolving their issues, but solving his own.

The storyline carried through, and created an arching epic feel throughout that made it somewhat of a classic. It's the type of a show I will show my children ten years from now and watch with them, telling them about all the good things about family it shows.

First, we have the Fuuko arc. A fairly comical arc, but one that is needed to get you into the series. The second arc, the Kotomi arc, is really what I felt made season one so great. Her story of survival and determination, couple with Tomoya's undying commitment just emphasized the entire point of Clannad.

After Kotomi, there was a set of intermingled arcs, which is fine, and then Nagisa to close out the season. Being able to show Akio going insane over his daughter's performance and the fight they were able to do, they could create a great masterpiece.

The start of the second season was genius, doing the baseball route to re-acquaint us. But after that, they sort of slipped up. The 3 side routes were in and of themselves interesting, but to have them occur one after another, it made the first half of the After Story feel almost slice of life-ish. If anything, they should've had those intermingled in S1 and started with Nagisa's route in S2, or just gone a 48 week continual story instead of taking us out of After Story until episode 9 of S2.
However, I do give Kyoani a 10/10 for what they did to the Yukine route. To change her route from being this dull and boring route to a combat thriller with a purpose, it was just amazing. One of the few times deviating from the original material is a good thing.

Kyoani then was able to go into the after story fluidly, and managed to get the boring 6800/0 out of the way very quickly, which made me happy. And then came episode 13. This was an adaptation miracle. Episode 13, combining both the marriage and the graduation, moved me to tears twice. Granted, I really wish that Akio would've said "Idiot" to Tomoya when he asked, but can't get everything.

Afterwards, they carried the rest of the story out nicely with the pregnancy, death, and then the beautiful Ushio arc. And then they carried out the resurrection perfectly, chopping out all the mistakes Key made in it. Though, they did have quite a grotesque death for the robot...

---

Now then, technical aspect. The artwork was absolutely phenomenal. The colors of the leaves on Nagisa's hair, the Sakura petals, her face on her death bed, the flower field... Nothing was left to be desires, except for DVDs since the station was so crappy.

Now then, the music. I like music very much. To me, it is the best part of the anime. And I really did not like a lot of Clannad's music. It involved a lot of synthesizer songs instead of orchestrated songs, it involved a lot of weird instruments, and it involved a lot of awkward chords. Now, some of the tunes were catchy, but i think it would've been a lot better to have had fully orchestrated pieces playing in the background. Allows you to appreciate it more.
But, the biggest flaw was Kyoani's lack of proper utilization of the music they had. They made country train seem like regular BGM instead of putting it right at the moment where Tomoya starts to act like a father (End of episode 17), and they completely misplaced the ED twice after Nagisa's death and Ushio's death. It wasn't that it was bad, it was that they could've done so much more with it than they did.
Chiisana Tenohira~ <3

For other factors, I think the voice actors/actresses did a phenomenal job, and I think 95% of the really important lines in my book were preserved. Adaptation was phenomenal as well, even though they skipped 2 routes.

And well, Clannad has been my life the past year and a half. It is the reason why I'm still alive today, and will be alive in the future. It is the anpan that kept me moving forward, and the drama club that'll always keep me company when I'm feeling lonely. It's the starfish to hold on to in times of sadness, and the violin to play in times of happiness (At the expense of others, of course).

Ratings:
Music: 6.3/10
Art: 10/10
Voice acting: 9.8/10
Adaptation: 10/10 (For perfect adaptation of what needed to be and fixing what needed to be adapted but the source was awful)
Storyline: 9.7/10
Intangibles: +2 (Keeping me going in life, being something to hold on to)
Overall: 9.8/10 (Rounded to 10 for the poll)

Excellent story, excellent experience, excellent anime. Summed up in one word: Dango.

[SaintessHeart]

And well, Clannad has been my life the past year and a half. It is the reason why I'm still alive today, and will be alive in the future. It is the anpan that kept me moving forward, and the drama club that'll always keep me company when I'm feeling lonely. It's the starfish to hold on to in times of sadness, and the violin to play in times of happiness (At the expense of others, of course).


I am glad you added the postscript in the bracket in the end. But Etude Pour Les Petites Superchordes isn't that bad of a piece, though simple. If you did notice, the warbling noises Kotomi made with the violin are parts of the piece, sometimes a few notes, stretched and put together.

The first thing I would like to comment about Clannad are the themes involved, basically they are the 5 Fs

1. Family
2. Friendship
3. Fate
4. Feelings
5. Fantasy

basically these are 5 of the important things in life that people often forget in pursuit of their "happiness". I don't think I have to elaborate on them.

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The second thing I would like to talk about is the character buildups.

Nagisa
Firstly I would like to talk about Nagisa, being a high schooler who got retained, she is clearly lonely as all her friends have already left, plus she is so shy that she would make mistakes often. Tomoya was the one that supplemented her weak points and protected her flanks (done in a pretty accidental way), so it is eventual they would end up together. To put it simply, they are fated to be together.

The dirty pair
Tomoya and Sunohara are perfect opposites of each other, with Tomoya being the smarter one, making them somewhat like a manzai pair. But despite being stupid and all, Sunohara has his own moral ground of protecting the ones close to him, like his sister, and Nagisa's attempt and remaking the drama club. Their existence in the story proves what Anne Frank wrote at the end of her diary true, "All people are good."

Kyou And Ryou
The Fujibayashi twins (my favourite characters) are something like initiators of comic relief, plus they are somewhat cute in their own personalities. Ryou is sweet and shy, and always require Kyou to come to her aid (often resulting in physical confrontations). But she has her own aggressive side, as shown in one of the later episodes when she mustered up enough courage to ask Tomoya to eat her bento. With Nagisa and Kotomi, they make up the three dense ones in the drama club. Kyou is a typical tsundere, but she has her softer side as evidenced when she is locked up in the gym storage, and in the Clannad Afterstory Episode 23. But how she constantly pick fights with "that Sakagami girl" never fails to crack me up, like what Ascaloth once quoted a Chinese idiom at Riuva.....

There cannot be two tigers (tigresses) in the same mountain.

Kotomi Ichinose
I have to to swear that her name is an irony. If you separate her surname, Ichi-no (一ノ) means "the position of" and se(瀬) means "current". Most likely her name would mean "The position of the current influenced by the beautiful instrument". Yeah right, she might cause a major tsunami by just playing the violin. However, she is a sweet character, though extremely complex to being branded as dense. She has a pretty much smaller role to play in Afterstory, although her split second calculation and analysis of hitting the baseball back in Ep 1 is epic.

Anyway, she is cute. If I can't have a girlfriend like Kyou or Ryou, I would certainly want her.

Tomoyo Sakagami
I simply love how Kyou refers to her as "that Sakagami girl", and how she is always a competition for Kyou (although the fight is always seemingly initiated by Kyou). She is a very popular character to the extent that a miniature fighting game "Tomoyo Fighter ~It is an exciting life~" is made by fans for her (Kyou steals the limelight by being the other ridiculously powerful character ingame). I am not a fan of her, so I don't have much to comment other than her superb figure.

Yukine, Misae, Sanae
Not much to comment though, since their own arcs are pretty okay IMO. But Sanae is hilarious when she dresses up as Isogai Sanako, and considering how dangerous the bread are when baked by her (the one she serves Mei seems to have GLASS inside). Yukine's charms are creepy though. Misae is pretty tsundere at her age, and the Shima arc is just peppered full of whimsical jokes.

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Lastly I would like to comment about the music. The music is downright beautiful, and I am surprised that nobody has yet to put together a band to play the pieces in a concert. The pieces I really like are

1. Kochi (the common piece played on the wooden flute)
2. It Is Like The Wind (Kyou's Theme)
3. Etude Pour Les Petites (Kotomi's Theme)
4. Hurry, Starfish! (This is obvious.)
5. Two Shadows
6. Small Palms

Well IMO this anime has probably the best set of music I have ever heard since Macross Frontier. I love them.

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Shall I take you?
To the place in this city where wishes come true?
This is the world that has ended.
A world where no one but I exist.
In the room are a small wooden table and a chair.
Outside the window is a vast plain with nothing.
The building is old and there is no clue of when it was built.
I live here alone. I sometimes go out to pick necessities.

There is no one outside either.
Within the faint illumination are many small lights flying.
I picked up branches, nails and many other things.
It is to make a friend.
But will the one being born be happy?
With some doubt in mind......

This world indeed had ended.
No more lives will be born.
She's the only being with life.
Either in the distant past or the distant future, I was in a different place.
It is a very lively place.
But I can no longer return there,
I have this body that she made for me.

I have been trying to chart the entire story, with some changes in the grammar and sentence construction, I am sure it would make an excellent ballad. The two monologues are pretty emotional anyway.

Music : 10/10
Storyline : 9/10
Characters : 7/10 (could have elaborated more in After Story, especially Sunohara and the Fuji twins)
V.A : 7/10
Art : 8/10 (the part which scored points for the series is the fantasy world)
Adaptation : x/10 (I never played the game)
Overall : 8.2/10

The score isn't high, but the memorable effect it generates is huge. I have never watched such a show before that is enough to even impact on my outlook of life.

I think it pretty much sums up to the single word Kristen has : Dango.

[Vegard Aune]

Warning: This will probably be the longest post I have written in my entire life.

When I first heard of Clannad, I didn't really pay a whole lot of attention to what it was, nor did I really care. It was pretty much just "some series done by KyoAni", which did sound kinda interesting, seeing how I had enjoyed both Haruhi and Lucky Star. Later on, a friend of mine mentioned that she was watching the series, although she actually thought it was really freaking boring, and she only kept watching because... I dunno. Anyway, I also heard a lot of other people saying how good it was, and around that time, I also started getting into visual novel-adaptions, so I eventually decided to check it out anyway, at pretty much the exact same time as the first season ended. My first impressions were pretty good. Not the "this will end up becoming my all-time favourite series in a year from now"-type, but I still enjoyed what I saw, and found it to be both funny and really emotional. I ended up going through the entire first season in about 3 days.

When it comes to said first season, I'd say it was at its best in the Fuko-arc, which, despite being the least realistic part of the story, still somehow seemed a lot more "believable" than the rest. Plus, the last episode of her arc was nothing short of a masterpiece.
After that, there's Kotomi's arc, which was, quite frankly, not as good. Mostly because they seemed to be going for a more realistic approach, but the entire story just seemed kinda poorly written. For starters, if that old man wanted to talk to her, couldn't he have tried to approach her in a way that didn't make him seem like a creepy stalker? And then there's the whole thing with the suitcase... Did they honestly expect me to just accept the fact that that thing was handed around the entire world and somehow made it back to Kotomi? Besides, if her parents had the time to write that message, why not write a clearer message, like "please send this to Kotomi Ichinose" or something like that? I dunno. But despite that, it wasn't a BAD arc, but it was probably my least favourite part of the first series.
Then you get the next arc, which is kinda hard to define as a single character's story, seeing how Tomoyo, Kyou and Nagisa were kinda all in the focus at the same time. But seeing how Tomoyo and Kyou's arcs in the game were, it makes sense that they'd do it like that. This part was more light-hearted than the rest in my opinion, but it was still good, and while the ending was somewhat cheezy, it still worked. There's not really a whole lot more to say, though, as honestly, I can't quite remember all the details of how everything happened in the anime at this point...

Anyway, by this point, I was completely hooked, and while awaiting the start of After Story, I also checked out Kanon (which I liked even more than Clannad) and Air (which was also great, though not quite as great as Clannad and Kanon.) I also ended up being spoiled on more or less everything that would happen in After Story, which I really wish I could have avoided, but somehow, this ALWAYS seems to happen in just about everything I watch...

So by the time After Story actually started, I was already completely aware that Tomoya and Nagisa would get married, have a kid, that Nagisa would die, that Tomoya would end up becoming just like his father and so on and so on. On the other hand, I didn't know how the story would end at that point, seeing how I wasn't entirely sure how the "Insane freaking tragedy"-ending actually, y'know... ended, and of course, they couldn't use the "True end" as that would completely contradict the other one... Then around came After Story episode 8, at which point I pretty much figured out what they would do, and I'll just put it straight: I initially hated the idea of doing a "magical resurrection", as I thought it would ruin the entire story.

As for how After Story started... at first, I wasn't very impressed, really. I mean, it was enjoyable and all, but the side-character arcs just weren't as good as the stories told in the first season. At that point, I didn't think After Story would be as good as Kanon, the first season, or even Air, although I did consider the possibility that it would get better once they got back to the main storyline...

...And boy, did it ever! Starting from episode 9, the series just got better and better for almost every passing episode, and I think I gave like, half the episodes a 10/10-rating here. (Let's see... Episode 9, 12, 13, 15, 16, 18, 20, 21, 22... so 9 episodes.) Somehow, each of those "10/10"-episodes also managed to be even better than the last, at least until episode 18, which I considered the best episode in the series.
Also, Nagisa's death was probably the saddest scene I'd ever seen in any series, despite the fact that I more or less knew that she'd be alive again at the end of the series. But like I said, it was episode 18 that was the highlight for me, so the one scene that managed to be even more emotional than Nagisa's death was when Tomoya finally stopped dwelling on that, and decided to start treating Ushio like his own daughter after having neglected her completely for the last five years. God, that scene was beautiful. It was also at that point that I realised that, despite its rather slow start, this was quite simply the best series I'd ever seen... Although by episode 21, I was starting to reconsider that. Basically, if the ending played out the way I had imagined it, (Nagisa is revived and they live happily ever after) the series MIGHT stay on top depending on how they do it. If the story ends tragically... No way. I'd probably hate it for it.
Then around came episode 22, which was just everything I could have hoped for it to be. They did the happy ending, and at least in my opinion, they managed to make it believable. I saw a lot of people complaining about how it didn't make sense, but seeing how it all fit with my theory of what would happen quite perfectly, I understood it just fine. And the musical montage at the end, with Chiisana Tenohira playing in the background, was just perfect.

So, with that out of the way, there's also the music... Mag Mell was honestly just an average song at best, but it fit the series, so no complaints there. Dango Daikazoku was... weird. When I first heard it, I actually didn't like it at all, and all throughout the first season and until the start of After Story, I still didn't particularly care for it... Then along came After Story with it's super-happy ending-theme that just kept ruining the moment at the end of practically every single episode, at which point I suddenly realised that Dango Daikazoku was about a million times better than that, and what's more, it was actually an excellent song. So basically, I only started liking Dango Daikazoku because of another song...:heh:
Then there's the After Story opening, Toki wo Kizamu Uta, and I just can't express just how amazing I thought that song was. It fit the mood of the series perfectly, had a really catchy tune, great vocals, and the visuals were just gorgeous. It might just be my favourite opening ever.
The background music in the series was also quite outstanding, especially "Shining in the Sky", which was prominently featured at the end of Fuko's arc, "Distant Years", which was played at Nagisa's graduation-scene, and "The Place Where Wishes Come True II", which played at the end of After Story episode 18. While most of the music in the series was very good, those were the tracks that I felt stood out the most. The insert-songs were also generally good, except that the horribly broken english in "Ana" never stopped bothering me, and I was actually relieved to see that the song wasn't subtitled on the DVD, and "Kaze no Shoujo" wasn't anything too impressive. (Heh, the two insert-songs I liked the least both played in the same episode, and that episode was one of my favourite episodes in the entire series:heh:...) The other songs ranged from decent to excellent, and Chiisana Tenohira was just outstanding. All in all, Clannad had one of the most beautiful soundtracks I've heard. Jun Maeda, Magome Togoshi... Great job. (Shinji Orito was left out of this because his contributions weren't anywhere near as good.)

Character-wise... Fuko was the epitome of ultimate awesomeness, Nagisa was one of the most lovable characters ever, Tomoya was amazingly well-developed, and... the others... were also pretty good characters... Not much more to say about that, really. STARFISH RULES!!!

Animation... KyoAni. Enough said.

Adaption from the game, I can't say too much about that, as I haven't finished it yet, but with the exception of Yukine's arc, they've been more or less completely faithful to the source, with the only significant changes being made to make everything fit into one single timeline, and I'd say most of the changes were for the better. I don't quite get why they decided to leave out Kappei, though... Meh, I guess they just cut his arc out for time or something, and come to think of it, it's probably just as well, as my biggest complaint with the After Story was that the secondary character-arcs lasted too long.

So, at the end of this insanely long post, what is my conclusion? In short, Clannad is now my all-time favourite show. It's got some of the best humor I've seen, great characters, fantastic music, and no other series ever made me want to cry as much as this one. Key and KyoAni truly did create a masterpiece here, and I can't wait for their next series.

Total rating: 10/10

[typhonsentra]

Animation Quality: 9

The show's strongest point. KyoAni yayayaya....

Voice Actors: 7.5

Only a few of the VAs really stoof out for me but no one was outright bad even if a few of the side characters could be annoying once in a while. Then again that's probably more a script issue anyway.

Script: 5

I've spoken extensively about disliking the entire ending but I did bump it up a few points because there were some nice moments here and there, especially Tomoya's experiences immediately after graduation where he's discovering himself and trying to grow up. A few of the moments during the drama dreamland period were nice too albeit completely ruined by the overall story arc they were sandwiched into.

Adaptation from Game: Variable

I didn't play the game so I don't have much perspective on this one. They probably did the best they could given the subject matter but a lot of times they tried to fit in aspects of the story from the game that just doesn't work in normal linear storytelling. And the way they deal with characters once their arc is over is sometimes awkward too. I mean, did Ichinose have anything but throwaway lines that people barely even acknowledge after her arc was over last season? It was kinda weird, especially this season.

Editing: 1

Probably the show's weakest point besides the reset. Nearly half the entire season was nonsensical and unnecessary side story arcs that didn't add anything. Misae's boyfriend being a cat, Tomoya beating up gang members... I dunno what they were thinking. The entire school portion just kept dragging and after we get through those we start rapidly leaping through months and years in the blink of an eye.

Overall score: 6/10 Average

It's not a bad show but it's flaws were large enough for me to take issue with. It's obvious the director loved the source material but I don't feel like they did a very good job of adapting it. To be fair it's probably a tall order but it doesn't feel like he was up to it.

[izmosmolnar]

Well I decided to finish lurking and contribute my own opinion about the series now that it's ended. (It's just my subjective opinion, no flaming intended whatsoever)

The first time I've heard of Clannad (the visual novel), I just ignored it as I usually dislike High School oriented stories. However later on when I've seen that quite a lot of people voted it as favorite Visual Novel and it's playthrough is about 50+ hours, I decided to check it out, and I didn't regretted it. I felt hooked immediately, I finished some school arcs in one sitting, and I really grew to like almost all the characters (that's what makes these series interesting IMHO). After that I've thought I'm not gonna like the After story arcs that much as Nagisa wasn't really close to the position of favorite character in my rating (it's not that I didn't liked her, it's just the other "heroines" in the VN school arcs proved more interesting back then). And that's when I decided to watch the series, which proved to be my favorite series later.
The VN managed to bring me close to crying (or laughing out loud in some funny scenes) sometimes, but I was actually shamefully sobbing in quite a few scenes during the series -and laughing even more on the same funny scenes animated-.

My opinion on some character improved greatly -Fuuko for example as I've thought she was just a waste of space in the VN, but in the Anime it was so entertaining to watch her determination and stubbornness with her voice combined as she deals with Tomoya or when he messes with her-.

After I've watched season 1, I went back to play through the After story which proved to be interesting enough, but I didn't liked it first as much as the school arcs. However after Ushio borns and the VN goes heavily involved with emotion, it's impossible not to adore the whole of Clannad.
After I've run through the whole game I've started to watch the After story series, which was out as far about episode 14 back then.
The only thing I didn't liked in the adaptation of the Game is, that the series ignored some arcs (due to the limited amount of time possibly), but gave far too much episodes on some arcs which wasn't that great in my opinion (Yukine, Fuuko or Mei). Not animating Akio's route for example doesn't make much sense to me (as I really liked him and I was terrified about the events in his arc).

What I didn't understand either is why they entirely skipped the whole of Kappei route (hell they didn't even put him in the series at all) as I think he was a great pair with Ryou and Kappei's arc was quite good itself. They could have introduced him first season and hook Ryou up with him in the second season, after Tomoya decides to pursue Nagisa and reject everyone else's affection.

About ratings:

Music
As I usually play VNs without BGM and playing mp3 or listening to the TV in the background, so I have no experience with the game's music, but I really liked the music in the Anime. I think it blends real well with the story, and some epic scenes indeed had remarkable music (the Tomoyo OVA snow scene for example).
9/10

Art/Animation
It's simply gorgeous. I don't remember any moment when there was any flaw in the Art or the Animation. They did a really good job here.
10/10

Voice Acting
It's great, as I mentioned my opinion of some characters improved greatly, in big part due to the quality of voice acting (Fuuko, Nagisa)
9/10

Storyline
Not much need to be said here
10/10

Adaptation:
Well I may be alone, but I think they can improve here. As Kristen mentioned already they did a good job improving the boring Yukine route, but in my opinion they could have edited the remaining lesser arcs a bit too and include the mentioned skipped routes aswell.
And not just the routes, it could have been awesome if they'd adapted such small easter eggs like the zombie mansion, the Laser tag prior to knowing Akio (including his final speech before the final duel), or some jokes involving JET Saito (especially how big pain in the b*tt it is to finally see that). Of course they squeezed some like that in (the gayish Sunohara-Tomoya "bad end"), but I would have preferred some of that more and watch less of Fuuko/dream world/etc.
8/10

Overall
10/10
Clannad series is a class on its own, It's uncomparable to the other Highschool life or Slice of Life animes. It was always entertaining, and it's really such a series, which I would show my kids too to watch it years later.

I just only hope they gonna animate the Tomoyo after game soon too for various reasons (hell I'm gonna miss Clannad till then).

[MeoTwister5]

Disclaimer: Yes, this post is huge.

I'll have to admit it now: the initial reason I watched Clannad was because I was a KyotoAni Fanman. It was a year after I saw Air, which up until that time was one only of only 2 shows to reduce me into a dehydrated pile of manflesh. I came off of Kanon 2006 and the Planetarian kinetic novel when I first saw the trailer for this. Searching around the net I found out that at the point of creation, Clannad was the longest piece of work made by Key, and that it did not contain any hentai scenes and the like. I was also told it was about love and family.

At first I didn't feel too interested. Air, Kanon and Planetarian had interesting premises that attracted me to them initially while Clannad did not. Information about the story actually felt so mundane and run of the mill. When the subs came out I didn't even download it as I did Kanon 2006, and watched on crunchyroll.

"Do you like this town? I do..."

I saw a young man. Dejected, empty, emotionless and simply drifting through the waves of life. In him, in the cynical manner he described his town, I saw a glimmer of goodness that could not manifest itself underneath his sadness. It was almost like looking into a mirror.

I saw a young woman. Frail and feeble, but full of the almost unshakable optimism unknown to even herself. In her I saw a strength hidden underneath a lonely and isolated exterior. With the words of Anpan she drew the courage to move forward.

3 minutes into the first episode, I paused the applet, thought about things a little, and later found myself ordering the game online even though I knew I couldn't read Japanese.

The rest, as they say, is history.

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Animation - 9.5

This is Kyoto Animation. Anyone who has seen their work knows how freaking good they are. In this modern era we tend to see a hectic use of rich CG rendering and oversaturated colors that, at times, overpowers the viewer rather than immerse him. The ability of the studio to bring life into the scenery and to animate them with such life, vigor and motion is undeniable if not unsurpassed. The only times I've seen such a world come to life prior to this studio was with the Studio Ghibli classics, which still stand on a pedestal that Kyoto Animation is slowly reaching. If Makoto Shinkai would work with KA, I shudder to think of the wonders they can breath life into.

It is therefore troubling that the animation is inconsistent at times. Even though the worst parts are still amazing to look at, consistency is still key. I don't know if it's a change in art direction, but when you get used to the level of work this studio can do, you can't help but notice when it drops.

Voice Acting - 9

As the very same VA's from the visual novel reprised their roles, it's undeniable that they know their characters well. To me however, the cream of the crop is Tomoya himself, he who was the unvoiced protagonist in the PC version and given his voice in the anime. You could almost hear it in his voice, the slow growth and evolution of a man who has much to learn about life through his experiences with others. The snarky and cynical teenager becomes a father in a few short years.

This of course brings me to a few beefs. I'm still not too fond of Kotomi's and Ryou's voice but that's just me.

Script and Adaptation- 9

The script stands out to me because, quite frankly, it captures almost everything you'd expect from life in high school and beyond. The characters speak and act their age at the given moment in time and are fairly consistent with their mannerisms.

KA is of course famous for their faithfulness to the source material and it shows once again. While it is again understandable that a lot of things are still edited out, and at least one important character being left out completely, the fact that they managed to combine together so many diverging individual stories into 1 tale is a feat of its own.

Music - 10

Jun Maeda and his crew are farking geniuses. I listen to Clannad OST tracks when I study. Dango Daikazoku is one of the saddest happy songs I've ever heard. I plan to listen to Country Train while I'm actually on the train to Tibet this April. As for Chiisana Tenohira and Toki wo Kizamu Uta... well... I don't need to describe them, do I?

----------------

Reviewer's Tilt: 9.5/10

Love is patient. Love is kind.
It does not envy. It does not boast.
It is not proud. It is not rude.

If there is one thing I knew when I started this series, it was that Tomoya never truly understood the human connection as a whole. With only Sunohara as his friend, he lived his days listlessly, floating from one gag and joke to another to fill his empty days. He kept his distance from his friends and father, he treated things with a degree of cynicism and detachment, as if an outsider not truly living in the world where he was present in.

And for all that he lacked, in a way he knew things much more than everyone else. He loner, but he was patient with people and treated them with some degree of kindness. He never sneered at people nor was he arrogant. He didn't look down on people, and even helped them to the best of his abilities.

Perhaps, even if he didn't admit it to himself, he understood what it meant to suffer emotionally, and took it upon himself to alleviate the burden of others.

It is not self-seeking. It is not easily angered.
It keeps no record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil.
But rejoices in truth.
It always protects.
Always trusts. Always hopes.
Always perseveres.

The moment she uttered the words Anpan at the bottom of that hill, we knew that Nagisa carried a few crosses of her own. A loner as well, left behind to repeat her senior year once again due to illness, we knew she'd be a tad bit strange. She was frail, sickly, clumsy and socially inept. Yet, even then, despite the way people treated her, she always wanted to look at the brighter side of life, even if life often spat in her face.

I cannot remember when she would truly be angry. She was always working to help make others happy, and she never kept grudges when things didn't go her way. She always tried to do what she thought was right even if people ridiculed her. She was trusting of people to a fault, trusting and hoping to find success in her endeavors.

In the end, even if she was childish, somewhat cowardly and always worrying, she always made it a point to move forward in life. No matter what.

Love never fails.

Upon that chance meeting at the bottom of that hill, two lives would change forever. Polar opposites in personality and outlook, they were an odd couple as it was, so who would have ever known just how much of a match they'd make.

But a pair they did make. A wholly human relationship that steadily grew as a cynical young man somewhat grudgingly agrees to help an inept girl in starting a theater club no one was interested in. Perhaps it was not romance outright but, a budding one nonetheless, growing as this odd couple made it their mission to help friends in need.

Whether it be a ghost girl, a genius girl, a violent girl, a pair of twins, a brother and sister or some dorm mistress' magical cat, it was all part and parcel of a journey to understand the human relationship. What it was, what it meant, and what it could be. Beyond friendship, to become a family.

And so, it needed growth. These two had so much to learn from their friends and family but, most importantly, from each other. Teenagers they were, they still knew they were children with so much more ahead of them. If they were to carve a life for the two of them to find their joy, they knew they had to leave their childish ways behind.

When I was a child I talked like a child.
I thought like a child. I reasoned like a child.
When I became an adult
I put childish ways behind me.

It was almost amazing to see just how much Tomoya had changed upon meeting Nagisa. Once cynical and sarcastic, now more honest and accepting. Once a man who would rather run from his problems, he nows faces them head on. It is after high school now, and even though Nagisa would once again have to take her senior year a third time, he swore to become a man worthy of her. He finds a job, an apartment to live in, and finally support himself. He starts to make his own decsions and takes responsibility for his actions.

No longer a child, now a man. Love seems to have changed him.

But then, how does love and life survive tragedy? A tragedy beyond all feeling and understanding, beyond all expectations and realities. It shatters you heart and soul, the event you thought would bring new happiness into your lives. In the end, it leaves you with nothing.

Nothing. Once again, the color in Tomoya's life fades away.

Then, I saw but a poor reflection
As in a mirror
Now I see face to face
Then, I knew it only in part
Now, I know fully
And I am fully known

He sees himself as empty once again, a bitter and emotionless shell that has lost everything he had ever yearned and cared for. He feels nothing for his life, now bereft of anything worth living for. Or so he thinks.

Perhaps he saw too much of her in his daughter, a sad and bitter reminder of a love lost to tragedy. He gives her up to his in-laws, unable to bear the burden or face the truth of his life. He begins a life of vice, ironic mirroring of his own father's despair.

It took a train ride, a field of beautiful yellow flowers and and an aging grandmother to make him once again face himself. He sees a poor reflection of a desolate man who thinks he has lost everything and anything. Face to face with himself he finally comes to terms with what he has lost and, more importantly, what he still has.

A daughter.

A daughter he has long neglected because he could only run away from reality. Then and there he begins to remember just how important Nagisa is too him, and what she had taught him. He is a father, nothing will ever change that, and it was time he acted like one.

5 years is a long time, but in the spectrum of human relations, 5 years can often mean almost nothing as long as one is willing to bridge the gap. Nagisa taught him that.

And now these three remain:
Faith.
Hope.
Love.

At the end of a second tragedy that would even take the life of the most powerful of humans, we are left with only our emotions and out beliefs. Things we learned from those dearest to us, who have in one way or another taught us how to live our lives to their fullest.

To have faith in the goodness of others that, despite all our faults, we will be there to support each other in our times of need.

To have hope even in the impossible. To believe even in the absurd, to believe even in miracles.

But the greatest of these... it is Love.

To hold on to the love we have felt and we have shared. The love that changed our lives from one of sadness to that of joy. The love that had turned strangers into family. The love that had brought out miracles from thin air.

That is love. That is Clannad.

1 Corinthians: 1/13

[Yukinokesshou]

Calculation method, with weightings:
Story/Plot (more Key than Kyo Ani, to be honest; weighting 20%): 9
Adaptation from Game (what could be done given source material; 20%): 7
Animation Quality (weighting 20%): 10
Characters/Character Design (weighting 20%): 7
Voice Actors (weighting 10%): 10
Editing (weighting 10%): 9

Composite Score: 8.5
(Rounding up to 9 in the poll)

Explanation
Story/Plot: Plus points for emotional intensity and poignant themes (family and community, not dwelling on the past but finding happiness and love anew), minus points for unnecessary complexity.

Adaptation from Game: Yes, it's difficult to adapt a non-linear visual novel into a linear anime series. No, I'm not going to be lenient because of this. At times, the plotline was so confusing that viewers had to either play the game or read through explanations written by Klashikari, Proto, Kinny Riddle & co. in order to understand what the heck was going on.

Animation Quality: Perfect...

Character Design: Okazaki Tomoya gets a 10. Everyone else gets 6 or 7 for personifying a flat and exaggerated archetype. (Nagisa = pureness, Fuko = silliness, Kyo = tsundere, Ryou = shyness, Kotomi = childish nerd, Tomoyo = "strong, silent type", etc. etc.) Admittedly, this is entirely Key's shortcoming, or maybe the genre's; Kyo Ani had nothing to do with character design.

Voice Acting and Editing: Outstanding and very good repsectively.

Final Note
I'm not a lenient judge, so an 8.5 or 9 from me is an excellent score. If I remember correctly, I think I gave Kanon a 6 or 7 (and 5 for character design?). I'm tempted to give Toradora a 9 but I'm going to wait for my enthusiasm to cool down before I rate that series.

[evilr00t]

NOTE: I have not seen the recap episode, but unless something spectacular(ly good) happens, my rating won't change.

As a game player, I think they did an AMAZING job on the Nagisa+After Story arc.
The base score: 10/10.

Bonuses:
1. Dango Daikazoku, Toki wo Kizamu Uta. (+0.5x2 points)
2. After Story Episode 18. (+0.25 points)
3. Shima-kun~~!! (+0.25 points) [Note: he is never shown in the visual novel.]
Total: +1.5 points

Deductions:
Absolutely terrible: [it's so bad, it's on TV Tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoodDissonance)]
1. Seriously, Torch. You shatter the mood of the viewer after episodes 16 and 21. (-1x2 points here, it really is this bad.)
Bad:
2. Tomoyo arc: seriously, one episode? What were they thinking? Seriously needed two episodes, or just leave it out. (-0.25 points here)
3. Fuuko... you already had your arc, STOP APPEARING!! (-0.25 points here)
Minor:
4. Yukine arc gaffes: Nagisa shouldn't have allowed Tomoya to sleep on Yukine's lap. I RAEG'd!! (Instead, make Nagisa and Tomoya become a couple after the Yukine arc...), and also some really terrible animation in the fight scenes. (-0.125x2 points here.)
5. Nagisa x Tomoya relationship: could they make it any less "raburabu"? NOT EVEN ONCE in the whole series do Tomoya and Nagisa kiss. (-0.125 points)
Total: -2.875 points

Score: Base + Bonus - Deductions = 10 + 1.5 - 2.875 = 8.625 => 9 of 10.
Note: I loved the ending, and I would have given it a 10 of 10, if not for FREAKING Torch. D:

http://chan.srpe.org/src/ushio.png

[serenade_beta]

It finally ends...

But I can't remember all that much about the first season... Though I have a decent opinion of it, as much as I remember. Somewhat lacking, but it focused on the characters and set up for AS... But a few characters got the short end of the stick, pretty much getting no time for their own arc... >_>

AS was pretty awesome for the most part, even better than the first season by a lot... Until the end. Until the end, it was just a chain of tearjerkers... Especially Tomoya's dad's scene as he came home. :T_T::T_T::T_T:
Not only that, but from start to finish, the animation was just beautiful. The BGM/music was also just wonderful!

But that's when the cons come in.
-First, the OP. In a bad meaning, it was amusing to see the exact same OP even though most of the characters in it turned into air and Nagisa's name was still Furukawa. Hahaha, silly KyoAni!
-Then the ED. There is no limit to how much hate and laughter you can feel for this thing when it pops up after a sad scene. I mean, read the mood and use a sadder song, please!
-Then the ending episodes... Nagisa's was still fine. Ok, she dies. I'm sad. Then we get a few great episodes including the one with dad. Then the last episode and it goes Pon! They have Ushio die the same way! (Here, I can see why Key is hated by some... Then again, I avoid their games myself...) I'm just rolling my eyes. Not only that, it wasn't even some "there is nothing he can do!" type of scene, but Tomoya brings a sick child outside and decides to walk with her to somewhere. Brilliant. Ha. And then we undo everything because the balls of light allows the story to go into a world where Nagisa survives and everyone is happy or something. One of the several spirit convention ends this season, and considering the quality of this anime compared to those others that use this revival plot, was probably the most damaging. Bleh...
Almost made me feel the movie did better on the whole Ushio thing...
-Also can't exactly say the fact they stuffed an epilogue of most characters just like that...
-And of course, the worst crime that they dared to show me a non-loli Mei! MeiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!

Well, it was fun for the most part. There were some bad parts, but for all of the crying it allowed me to do and the laughing and some other stuff, 9/10!

[Ascaloth]

For the final review I will ever give on CLANNAD (TV) and CLANNAD ~After Story~, I will focus on a number of points, some of which may be divided into subpoints. These points are as follows;

Atmosphere

Background Music (Key Sounds Label)
Art Direction (Shinohara Mutsuo)
Animation (Kyoto Animation)

The Cast

Main Characters

Okazaki Tomoya (Nakamura Yuuichi)
Okazaki (formerly Furukawa) Nagisa (Nakahara Mai)
Okazaki Ushio (Koorogi Satomi)


Side Characters

Furukawa Akio (Okiayu Ryotaro)
Furukawa Sanae (Inoue Kikuko)
Fujibayashi Kyou (Hirohashi Ryou)
Fujibayashi Ryou (Kanda Akemi)
Sakagami Tomoyo (Kuwashima Houko)
Ichinose Kotomi (Noto Mamiko)
Ibuki Fuuko (Nonaka Ai)
Sunohara Youhei (Sakaguchi Daisuke)
Sunohara Mei (Tamura Yukari)
Miyazawa Yukine (Enomoto Atsuko)
Sagara Misae (Yukino Satsuki)
Yoshino Yuusuke (Midorikawa Hikaru)



Script

Storyline Quality
Pacing
Internal Consistency


So there we have it, the basis by which I shall give my review on CLANNAD (TV) and CLANNAD ~After Story~. It’s going to be a long, long journey….
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

http://www.riuva.com/ascaloth/CLANNAD%20Triple%20Critique%20Screens/CLANNADASTriple%20Critique%20Header.png

This is the Animesuki Forums chapter of the Triple Critique for CLANNAD (TV) and CLANNAD ~After Story~. The Triple Critique is a system of three reviews on the same series, composed in differing formats for different preferences in reading material.

The RIUVA chapter (http://www.riuva.com/?p=1393) offers a deeper look into the themes and characters as portrayed in both series, in the medium of an animeblog editorial

The Nihon Review chapter offers summarized reviews of both seasons in their own right: Sorrow-kun reviews the first season CLANNAD (TV) (http://www.nihonreview.com/anime/clannad/), while I cover the second season CLANNAD ~After Story~ (http://www.nihonreview.com/anime/clannad-after-story/).
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Atmosphere

A good anime series draws its viewing audience into its own world; to achieve that, it has to set a general mood. To create a certain mood, two things must be achieved; firstly, animation of at least decent quality animation must be present in order not to make the whole thing look too jarring to the viewer's eyes, and secondly, the appropriate set of background music must be selected, in order to convey the general emotions of any particular scene. Kyoto Animation, which was also responsible for AIR (TV) and Kanon (2006), have earned a reputation for creating a distinctive ambience within their renditions of the Keyverses, so does their rendition of the CLANNADverse prove that third time’s the charm?


Background Music (Key Sounds Label)

A large part of what gives the various Keyverses their distinct identity are the pieces of Key Sounds Label, and this is especially so for both seasons of CLANNAD. With a soundtrack specifically designed to set the mood for various different events in a visual novel format, there is plenty of material to work with for every occasion, be it specific character themes, event songs, or the few vocal songs. Special mentions go to the delicate which highlights the most emotional scenes, the hauntingly ethereal [i]Yuki no Hara, and especially Nagisa, the character theme named after the titular heroine of the story. Of course, it’s not a 100% perfect effort; Ana comes across as a well-meaning but ultimately lulz-worthy effort due to its odorously Engrish lyrics, and it is almost a universal agreement that Torch is probably one of the most inappropriate ED song ever used for a series such as After Story, which makes KyoAni’s almost autistic insistence on sticking with it throughout even more of a sin then it already is.

Yet, despite the slip-ups in the BGM department, it is undeniably clear that the CLANNAD OST in general more than lives up to the standards set by its predecessors from AIR and Kanon, and three pieces in particular captures the essence of CLANNAD to me; Toki wo Kizamu Uta, which rivals AIR’s Tori no Uta in its epic emotionality; a simple song not originally in the visual novel, but penned especially by Maeda for the anime series. Yes, that’s right, it’s Dango Daikazoku I’m talking about, a nice and simple song on first hearing, but one that truly grows on one with time, and if ever there was a song that has the potential to survive as a lullaby for the ages long after its source is all but forgotten, it would be this one. And finally, not to be forgotten is Chiisana Tenohira, a song of happy and sad memories, and of hope in the future, the perfect song to cap the long, long journey which the beloved characters of the story had just come to the end of. The OST is half of what makes the CLANNADverse distinct from its peers, and in that regard, it does a great job.

Rating for Background Music: 8.8/10


Art Direction (Shinohara Mutsuo)

It is generally known that Kyoto Animation’s renditions of the Keyverses are visually highly distinctive, even compared to their Kadokawa product adaptations. While Shinohara was working under a different chief art director for AIR (TV), it was she who held that position for the production of Kanon (2006), as it is too for this series. Thus, it goes without saying that the visual aspect of both seasons of CLANNAD is of a similar level as that of the visually stunning Kanon (2006), and in fact, there are similarities in the visual aspects of both series.

That said, perhaps the TBS 4:3 broadcast (as opposed to the usual BS~I 16:9 one) of both series may have something to do with it, but it somehow feels as if KyoAni’s CLANNADverse didn’t quite have the distinctiveness that the previous KyoAni Keyverses displayed. The bright and sunny colours of summer is what characterizes the AIRverse, while the soft and lovely colours of winter did the same for the Kanonverse, but it’s not quite so easy to pin down upon first glance just what distinguishes the CLANNADverse from its peers. Sure, the sakura-laden path to school and the sunflower field amongst others is as beautiful a sight as KyoAni can offer to be sure, but both were hardly the dominant visual element that the sun and the snow were in the previous Key adaptations, and probably it has to be said that the CLANNADverse is made up of a multitude of scenery instead of one distinctive kind.

Nevertheless, the KyoAni rendition of the CLANNADverse remains as beautiful as any of its previous efforts, as the example of the Illusionary World best exemplifies. And when one lets go of expectations of sweeping vistas from Kanon (2006) and AIR (TV) and takes the evolution of the Town for what it is, it’s easier to realize that it is still a damned nice sight.

Rating for Art Direction: 8.2/10


Animation (Kyoto Animation)

Breathtaking effects and near-flawless consistency are the twin pillars upon which Kyoto Animation built its reputation as an up-and-coming force to be reckoned with in the anime production industry; this can be evidenced from a look through of their previous works, from both Key Visual Arts and Kadokawa sources. Taken in that context, it is perhaps not entirely controversial to suggest that KyoAni isn’t quite the force they used to be; maybe it is the increasing expansion of the studio from a small backwater-based studio to one of the big boys in its own right, maybe it is the sign of a stagnating economy, maybe it is the fact that the CLANNAD project is the studio’s first ever 4-cour effort (even if it’s really 2+2), or maybe it is because of the fact that CLANNAD ~After Story~ was produced at a time when the studio was forsaking its one-at-a-time policy to try its hand at producing multiple projects at a time (Munto (TV), the Suzumiya Haruhi Youtube ONAs), but there are points within both series, especially in the early episodes of CLANNAD ~After Story~, where a possible financial strain on the studio’s coffers makes itself quite apparent in quality drops within the animation. One is forced to wonder where the near-flawless animation KyoAni was much vaunted for has gone, when one sees these instances of the studio not quite living up to the bar it itself set for everyone else in terms of animation consistency.

Thankfully, these instances are, if not almost absent altogether like it used to be, still relatively rare. And if anything, the breathtaking effects which KyoAni is also known for is still very much present; the hair still flows beautifully in the wind, the sakura petals drift through the air in a beautiful choreography of nature, the rain falling on the characters look just like how it would be in real life, and the snow drifting down upon the impending doom of some of the most loved characters in the story almost embody a silent requiem for them. Moreover, the Illusionary World sequences showcase the heights to which KyoAni can still reach if need be, and ultimately, though it may not have been the most beautiful effort ever by the studio, the visuals of both seasons of CLANNAD are still some of the best out there.

Rating for Animation: 8.5/10


Having long since graduated from being the dark horse within the animation industry, Kyoto Animation have since earned a status as one of the great studios in the popular imagination, with the quality of their previous works. While the audiovisual aspect of CLANNAD (TV) and CLANNAD ~After Story~ are not quite at the level of their predecessors, it remains at a level rivalled by few others, as well as one of the two important traits that makes KyoAni the studio that it is.

Overall Rating for Atmosphere: 8.5/10

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

The Cast

A good setting lays the foundation of the world that the story takes place in, but it is the characters themselves who sets the foundation of the story itself; indeed, the storyline of the entire series rises and falls based on how well each and every character is handled; it's a fine line between making an individual character, or indeed the entire cast, look either dull and uninteresting, or over-the-top and lacking the ability to suspend the disbelief of the audience. With probably one of the biggest casts ever seen in a Key work, how does CLANNAD (TV) and CLANNAD ~After Story~ fare on this account?

As per usual, I will be rating the performance of the seiyuus as part of the competency in the execution of each individual character.


Main Characters
Large and varied is the cast of CLANNAD, yet there is no doubt that the story belonged to the three youngest members of the Okazaki clan. It is through the eyes of the three members of this one particular family through which we see the entire story unfold, and as such they would be the only ones who should be regarded as the main characters of this story.


Okazaki Tomoya (Nakamura Yuuichi)
”Nagisa, I’ve found it. I’ve finally found it. Something that only I can protect. Something irreplaceable that I have to protect. It’s….right here.”

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/HyperionEnergy/clannadas11tomoya2gb5.gif

The male leads in the stories of Key are generally considered to be very strong characters, not pigeonholed into the stereotypes that plague modern-day anime, but interesting and well-developed in their own right. In that regard, Okazaki Tomoya is but the logical progression of such already strong male characters like Aizawa Yuuichi and Kunisaki Yukito. Yet, though the Key male lead archetype is already a strong foundation from which to work with, the eventual development and growth of Okazaki Tomoya is of such an extent unmatched by any other in recent memory.

From the beginning, the character of Okazaki Tomoya is an interesting one in its own right; a cynical delinquent who could see no colour in his life, he initially starts off merely looking for some fun to while the hours away, but through his interactions with many people in his life, he slowly but noticeably changes and grows over the course of the storyline. We see how these interactions bring out the innately kind nature of the outwardly apathetic delinquent, and how they subtly contrast with his pessimistic outlook on life. He is shown many times to be a conflicted individual in his youth, helping those around him find resolution in their lives, yet at the same time running away from his problems. We were shown how Tomoya slowly grew from being a self-absorbed youth, to a young man who has found something to live for and struggling his very hardest to mature quickly for that purpose, to someone who managed to pick himself up from crippling grief to take responsibility for another, to finally facing up to and finding resolution for the source of the flaws in his character that has plagued him for so long. Such character development could be matched by few others, yet it is noteworthy that without his interactions with the people around him, particularly two very important people in his life, Tomoya would not have gained the exceptional amount of character development that he has; which just helps to emphasize the theme of family as a force for change in one’s life.

In short, Okazaki Tomoya is probably one of the most complete characters I have ever seen in the medium of anime, period. There is no other character I can possibly think of that have exhibited so much growth as Tomoya did, and such a character calls for a seiyuu who can reflect the highs and lows in the life of such a man; and in that regard, Nakamura Yuuichi puts in an exemplary performance in this role, for the effort he puts into portraying the joy and grief experienced by Tomoya throughout his life is astounding indeed. Though Nakamura is an up-and-coming male seiyuu who started off in obscurity, but has since scored some big roles such as Saotome Alto of Macross Frontier and Graham Aker of Gundam 00, I will henceforth regard his defining role as that of Okazaki Tomoya of CLANNAD (TV) and CLANNAD ~After Story~, for he too has played a crucial part in making the character as complete as the latter has become.

Rating for Okazaki Tomoya: 9.8/10
Rating for Nakamura Yuuichi: 9.6/10


Okazaki (formerly Furukawa) Nagisa (Nakahara Mai)
” The people who love this town live here, and the town that is loved will love them. That should be the case, no matter where it may be.”

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/HyperionEnergy/clannadas13-nagisa15.gif

When we first met this young lady at the bottom of the long, long path up the hill, little would most of us have expected just how far she would come. Starting off as a typical ‘weak girl’ archetype that Key is so fond of using, and then being helped along in her goals by the ‘stronger’ male lead, it’s little wonder that most viewers would immediately assume the course her character would take, and with initially more interesting personalities like Kyou and Tomoyo to share the spotlight with, one cannot really be blamed for assuming that Nagisa would turn out to be boring.

What a surprise, then, that she pulled on all of us. Despite her weak and hesitant personality at first glance, she quickly proved her worth as a character; despite the push she needed from Tomoya, she quickly established herself as the driving force in the relationship, often leading and steering Tomoya in her own way to accomplish many matters he would never have bothered to attempt by himself. As the product of the loving family that Tomoya had forgotten what it was like to have, Nagisa proved to be a great source of wisdom for her flawed man as well, slowly teaching him how to shed the childishly cynical view he had of his life, and ever pushing him to seek a resolution to things he had made a habit of running away from. As much as Tomoya was a great help to her, she too was a godsend to him, being instrumental in the long journey of growing up and maturing he was about to undertake. Nagisa grew because of Tomoya; Tomoya grew because of Nagisa. It almost feels like a sin to rate them separately, for neither could have become the great characters they eventually ended up as, without the influence of each other.

For a girl who looked weak at first glance, she proved to be unexpectedly strong and wise in a good way, living strongly all the way to the bitter end and beyond. A girl so wise and with so much innate strength despite her surface personality needs a seiyuu with the ability to portray these traits in a young voice, and Nakahara Mai proved a great casting for such a complex task indeed. A veteran of many roles in contrast to the relatively green Nakamura, her clear and bright voice was very much suited to the multifaceted character that was Okazaki Nagisa, and the rapport she struck up with Nakamura translated into a most unique chemistry between their respective characters Nagisa and Tomoya that underlined the strong bond between their characters.

Rating for Okazaki (Furukawa) Nagisa: 9.6/10
Rating for Nakahara Mai: 8.9/10


Okazaki Ushio (Koorogi Satomi)
”Sanae-san said.…it was okay to cry in the bathroom…and in Papa’s arms.”

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/HyperionEnergy/c1908.gif

How does one construct a 5-year-old as a main character in her own right, instead of falling into the trap of pandering to lolicon conventions as would have been all too easy to do so? Therein lies the uniqueness of the character of Okazaki Ushio, who has under the pen of Maeda come across, not as a precocious loli as is common in the medium of anime and rare anywhere else, but as a young girl child who thinks, acts, and feels just like one of her age in real life.

As such, her behaviour is very cute and real, and yet at the same time it is the vehicle upon which the building of her character as a great one in its own right. It’s easy to see Ushio exactly for what she was portrayed as; a five-year-old girl wondering what her mother was like when she was alive, why her father never seemed to care about her like other fathers, why her family is not like that of others. Through the simple act of affirming her loneliness, and her need to feel loved by those who mattered to her, Ushio cemented her character as that of a real five-year-old, but at the same time also that of a human being in need of the companionship of her family, as a great character in her own right. More than that, she served as the catalyst for the completion of her father’s development as a character, just like her mother did before her. It is, then, perhaps no wonder why she has grabbed the hearts of a significant majority of the viewers, being a character who can be sincerely loved for being herself.

One can only imagine how difficult it must be to voice a 5-year-old girl who is not stereotyped to pander, but instead as a character in her own right. In that regard, Koorogi puts in a stellar performance as the little girl Ushio, whose innocent cries of loneliness shook the heart of the terrible father who neglected her for so long, as well as the hearts of many who have invested their love into the main characters of CLANNAD.

Rating for Okazaki Ushio: 9.3/10
Rating for Koorogi Satomi: 9.5/10


Side Characters
Though the Okazakis may hold the spotlight, CLANNAD is one of those stories where the supporting cast is truly critical to the growth and progress of the main characters. As per normal, I shall rate only those of the supporting characters who were important to the story. Of course, with the huge supporting cast that CLANNAD has, it may well prove to be a much greater task than usual….


Furukawa Akio (Okiayu Ryotaro)
”Hey, brat....no, Tomoya. I’m sure that painful and saddening things are waiting for you. If it’s you two….if it’s us….we can overcome this. We’re family. We’ll help each other out.”

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Father-figure characters don’t tend to feature too often in Key’s stories; indeed, that seems to be the case with anime in general. However, though that may well be part of the reason why he stands out as a character, the fact remains that Akio is probably the most important supporting character within the CLANNAD storyline not only because the fact that he accounts for a significant portion of the hilarity that makes the split series such a fun watch, but also because he serves as a true mentor figure for Tomoya in every way.

Though he is a fun character in his own right, the true strength of Akio’s character comes from the fact that he dispenses a great deal of wisdom borne of experience as well, and it is this wisdom which also plays a significant part in Tomoya’s own character development. One can laugh at the man’s more childish antics and his propensity for pseudo-GAR posing, but by the same token, one cannot help but listen just as attentively as Tomoya does when Akio talks to him about the importance of family, and it is hard not to truly admire the man in moments when his true GAR shines through, such as when he was yelling at Nagisa to get her act together, or calmly telling Sanae that it is now okay for her to cry. It’s hard not to admit that that is a sign of a true man, a sign of true GAR.

A character as fun and off-the-wall, yet at the same time as easy to admire for both his wisdom and his manliness as Akio, is a rare character indeed. Okiayu Ryotaro, a veteran seiyuu dating from the previous era of seiyuu of Hayashibara Megumi and Kouda Mariko, shows his mettle as an experienced voice actor by portraying both aspects of the character of Furukawa Akio to the fullest extent; it is hard to imagine him as possibly being anyone else.

Rating for Furukawa Akio: 9.1/10
Rating for Okiayu Ryotaro: 9.3/10


Furukawa Sanae (Inoue Kikuko)
”Tomoya-san, Nagisa is our dream. And from today onward, you will also be our dream. The happiness you two share is our dream.”

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Very much in the style of the classic Key MILFs, being a gentle soul who appears to have the ability to defy the ravages of time indefinitely, as well as possessing the standard Lethal Chef skills to boot, Furukawa Sanae is without question designed as a signature variant of the many appeal factors regularly employed in the Key stories, just as her predecessors before her have been. Yet even so, though her moeness is emphasised in her character, she is much like Akio in that she also serves an important purpose as a mentor figure to Tomoya, helping him along in his growth as a human being, though to a lesser extent than her husband. Like the rest of the Furukawa clan, including her husband and her daughter who is destined to marry into the Okazaki clan, she has a fun and seemingly none-too-bright surface personality, but her wisdom shines through at critical moments when she has something to teach to the son-in-law who has much to learn. We hardly to see just what Sanae-san is thinking at any time, but just that one moment in episode 19 makes it very clear that the woman is more than she seems.

For a “young” mother figure, the veteran 17-year-old seiyuu Inoue Kikuko of Belldandy fame is always a good choice as a casting, and she proves this in her performance of her role as Furukawa Sanae, handling both the silly and wise aspects of the character in the way only she is capable of.

Rating for Furukawa Sanae: 8.6/10
Rating for Inoue Kikuko: 8.9/10


Fujibayashi Kyou (Hirohashi Ryou)
”Even I felt a little tense before meeting with you guys today. It’s felt like you two had gone far ahead of us in life or something.”

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A dictionary-launching, martially proficient, highly sexualized tsundere with a wit almost at the level of the legendary troll that is Tomoya, as well as a caring streak towards her weaker sister; what’s not to like? One of the more interesting side characters from the beginning due to her personality, it’s little surprise that Kyou proved to be one of the more popular characters in the cast from the start of the story. Hirohashi must be credited for her effort at creating a unique-sounding voice profile that was instrumental in making Kyou such an engaging character for the audience.

Unfortunately, as her story in her original source completely conflicted that of Nagisa’s, the latter of which was the main story portrayed in the anime series, there was simply no space to fit her story into the overall narrative, leading to its excision. And with the greater part of her story cut out, Kyou unfortunately ended up one of the more pointless supporting characters within the cast, only playing the part of the jilted girl with little more contribution to the overall themes and narrative. It is a pity, even if she made a few more appearances in the second season, for a character with her engaging personality could have been used for so much more.

Rating for Fujibayashi Kyou: 7.0/10
Rating for Hirohashi Ryou: 8.9/10


Fujibayashi Ryou (Kanda Akemi)
”There isn’t just one future, but many possibilities. I still believe that.”

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With hers and Kyou’s story being pretty much one and the same, it unfortunately has be stated outright; Ryou suffers pretty much the same shaft treatment that her sister did, leaving her with little in the way of contribution towards the main narrative, apart from her dropping a hint about the true nature of the world that the CLANNAD storyline is set in. And unlike Kyou, Ryou’s personality is not even anywhere near as magnetic as Kyou’s was, being a doormat personality type that just keeps getting pushed around by those around her, and generally a lot less interesting to the audience. Even though it’s not as if she sounded like a particularly interesting character either, Kanda probably couldn’t do very much to make her role one to be remembered.

Rating for Fujibayashi Ryou: 6.2/10
Rating for Kanda Akemi: 7.0/10


Sakagami Tomoyo (Kuwashima Houko)
”No matter how depressing it may look, the most important places don’t change. I think it’s the same for family, as well.”

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Another of the fan favourites amongst the cast, Tomoyo also presented amongst one of the more interesting personalities, although for far different reasons from that of Kyou; a naturally tomboyish disposition seeking to become more feminine, and being somehow relatively clueless about the social norms of Japanese society, it was amusing to see her struggle or more often completely fail to come to grasp the social consequences of her actions. This aspect becomes especially hilarious whenever she gets paired off against Kyou, leading to a fire/ice dynamic that tickles with its incongruous nature. Of course, the emphasis on her physicality, particularly when it is used as the end result of one of Sunohara’s failed pranks, certainly didn’t hurt either.

Although she suffers the same fate as Kyou of having her story be entirely conflicting with the main storyline, and thus excised, Tomoyo was a bit luckier in that she still had something left to contribute to the overall narrative, and especially to the theme of family which underlies the story of the series. Of course, it is a little disappointing that she all but disappears towards the end of the second season, when even the Drama Club members still make sporadic appearances every once in a while. Kuwashima, another veteran of the seiyuu business, shows her mettle in a distinctive performance as Tomoyo, a girl with a naturally tomboyish voice tone attempting to be feminine, and one with much seriousness and ambition in her personality.

Rating for Sakagami Tomoyo: 7.8/10
Rating for Kuwashima Houko: 8.4/10


Ichinose Kotomi (Noto Mamiko)
”I’ve waited all this time. ‘Day before yesterday I saw a rabbit, yesterday a deer, and today you’. You’re Tomoya-kun.”

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Of all of the CLANNAD heroines, Kotomi’s character is most like that of the classic Key heroines, and for that matter, the same goes for her storyline. In fact, it also feels as if Kotomi was what one got should one attempt to distil the purest essence of moe from past Key heroines; because of that, Kotomi as a character is destined to appeal to only a certain segment of the viewership, and not so much to others.

Like I mentioned earlier, even her storyline feels like a throwback to the storylines often used in the previous two Key works, especially Kanon; there’s almost certainly nothing new about the concept of a childhood friend being forgotten, and then rediscovered later on. Even then, although the usage of “The Dandelion Girl” short story as a theme of her story may be an inspired choice in the visual novel’s scenario, the necessity of KyoAni’s approach to replace the romance portion of her story with a semi-platonic one leaves it without much of the impact it was supposed to have. Lastly, the resolution to the other half of her storyline also stretches believability somewhat, one might almost say just like how classic Key storylines used to.

All in all, the character and storyline of Kotomi is so steeped in classic Key conventions, that its mileage may vary for different viewers depending on their individual appetite for these conventions. Kotomi is one of those characters that only Noto can really play with her unique voice, and while she certainly does not exceed expectations there for the most part, her traumatic performance in episode 12 of the first season does warrant special mention.

Rating for Ichinose Kotomi: 8.0/10
Rating for Noto Mamiko: 7.6/10


Ibuki Fuuko (Nonaka Ai)
”Fuuko always kept being pulled to such fun places. Everyday was fun, just like the starfish festival. Thank you so much. Fuuko had fun.”

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With an extremely childish personality, Fuuko is by far the most polarizing of the CLANNAD heroines, splitting the viewers into the few who are endeared to her innocent ways, and the rest for whom Fuuko’s immaturity grated on their senses. In fact, her character is often capable of going to such a childish extreme, that it’s hard not to see what some people refer to as ‘retard moe’. On first glance, it seems as if Fuuko is a character who would take a lot of patience to love.

That said, somehow it is the character who is initially the hardest to love who actually becomes the easiest to empathize with. Despite being none too bright most of the time, there are moments when Fuuko appears to be more than she seems, having a depth of character that is definitely there even if it doesn’t show itself that often. And for such a hard-to-love personality, it is Fuuko who has the best story of the supporting characters, packing the largest emotional impact of the first season even if it isn’t quite at the level of the bombshells of the second season, and being the most meaningful in terms of its contribution to the theme of family, to boot.

Fuuko may be the hardest character to love and empathize with initially amongst the supporting characters, but she turns out to have amongst the best character development and story in the end, even if she got somewhat misused on several occasions after her story arc had ended. Nonaka as the voice of Fuuko puts in a performance that, while not necessarily of any help for those who found the character’s behaviour irritating to begin with, was certainly definitive of Fuuko’s personality.

Rating for Ibuki Fuuko: 9.0/10
Rating for Nonaka Ai: 7.8/10


Sunohara Youhei (Sakaguchi Daisuke)
”Well, they say friends you make during school will forever be friends. Though the only time you can do something stupid like this is now, even if it’s just being stupid.”

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Oh, how much less fun CLANNAD would be without this guy. The idiot sidekick to Tomoya and a constant source of entertainment during the School Life season, Sunohara should be respected for always volunteering to take one for the team for the sake of the hilarity which made the first season such a great watch in its own right. From getting pummelled every which way by Kyou and Tomoyo, to getting trolled by legendary troll Tomoya, to being the butt of homosexual jokes, the presence of Sunohara was critical to the great chemistry that revolved around the characters of the School Life arc.

However, he was not just a punching bag for laughs; Sunohara was at the same time one of the more developed sidekick characters in anime, as is evidenced by the several times he displays a more thoughtful side to himself. Even though his own dedicated arc was a melodramatic trainwreck which puts him in a bad light, it also helps the development of his character as well by highlighting his worst character flaws alongside the better aspects of his character. It is a pity he got significantly less time once the After Story necessitated that the bulk of the focus shift to the main couple, but he was a great character with the amount of time that he had. Kudos to Sakaguchi, for the memorable character of Sunohara was due in large part to the variety with which he used his voice to portray the best and worst aspects of the character.

Rating for Sunohara Youhei: 8.4/10
Rating for Sakaguchi Daisuke: 8.8/10


Sunohara Mei (Tamura Yukari)
”When I cried, onii-chan would always come right away. ‘Don’t make Mei cry!’ I was so happy. I felt confident in him.”

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A precocious loli much smarter than her good-for-nothing brother, Mei was a delight from the first moment she appeared. Her appeal was only enhanced by the fact that she turned out to be much more competent than the older Sunohara, being smart and very capable for her age. And to be honest, the clear voice of Tamura is always great to listen to, and it is her voice that forms a big part of Mei’s shining personality.

It’s kind of too bad, then, that the character arc which she shares with the older Sunohara seems to downgrade her apparent intelligence by a few notches, causing her to make decisions one would not have expected of her from her earlier, more thought-out actions. Melodrama is not an easy tool to work with, but it can definitely produce results when executed well; however, this was unfortunately not quite the case, as the Sunohara Arc ended up as a melodramatic trainwreck instead. Still, despite that, the girl definitely had her moments to remember her by.

Rating for Sunohara Mei: 7.6/10
Rating for Tamura Yukari: 8.0/10


Miyazawa Yukine (Enomoto Atsuko)
”I wondered, why was it I didn’t understand better how my brother lived his life? That’s why I built up the courage to get closer to everyone.”

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Yukine is probably the most unfortunate character in the CLANNAD anime series, given that her arc was given a complete reworking which was either the result of subpar source material to begin with, or fell far short of the otherwise decent quality of its source material. KyoAni is regarded even to this day as the studio to go to for adaptations of existing works, but the reworked Yukine arc is one of their biggest examples of their Achilles heel; they still don’t have any scriptwriters capable of good quality original content in their own right, and this showed in how her story arc pretty much felt flat on its face. Whatever it was, it didn’t do justice to the character of Yukine at all, and while a possible reason for the rework is to give Enomoto a chance to emote more strongly than the usual tone she has to use for Yukine, it’s kind of hard to take either the story arc or her character seriously in the first place.

Rating for Miyazawa Yukine: 6.2/10
Rating for Enomoto Atsuko: 7.1/10


Yoshino Yuusuke (Midorikawa Hikaru)
”But he had lost sight of his path. He should have continued singing. Not for anyone’s sake, but love songs for that one person….Okazaki, what’s important is not losing sight of your path.”

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Though Yoshino appeared to be a background character in the early days of the CLANNAD storyline, being present mostly to spout cheesy lines and serve as a side character in Fuuko’s story arc, he becomes particularly important later on in the After Story portion of the storyline. It’s not just because he served as the catalyst for Tomoya to move on to the next stage of his life, but it is because he also served in a small, but important role as a minor mentor figure for the young man trying his best to become a full-fledged member of society. His self-narration of his life story as a life lesson for the younger Tomoya carries a meaningful message within its words, and for that and many other examples of his mentoring, I regard Yoshino as an important side characters, whose development, while rushed, was very complete and contributed fully to the overall narration.

Kudos must go to the veteran seiyuu Midorikawa, if only for the fact that it must take great effort to recite lines so redolent with the smell of cheese with such a straight tone. Of course, it’s not only that; Yoshino is a character very much in the typecast of Midorikawa, but the latter shows just why that is so with a solid performance.

Rating for Yoshino Yuusuke: 8.0/10
Rating for Midorikawa Hikaru: 8.5/10


It probably goes without saying that, when all is said and done, the overall narrative that makes up CLANNAD (TV) and CLANNAD ~After Story~ belongs to the main characters, the three members of the Okazaki clan whom we’ve seen prosper and grow in each others’ company. In their joys and their griefs, we’ve participated in it all as they go through the vicissitudes of the long journey of life that they’ve been through. However, the Okazakis would not have come so far without the support of the huge, and generally well-developed supporting cast with which they share the setting and the story. In that sense, the CLANNAD storyline really is about family; for through living with and depending on others, only could one grow as a person, and it even goes for them as well.

Overall Rating for The Cast: 9.3/10

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Script

A good story; that is what an audience expects, regardless of whether the medium is a book, TV, a movie, or even in this case, an anime. And to get a good story, you need a promising premise, a logical yet appetizing plot, and most importantly of all, inspired direction to make the story really shine amongst its peers. It is often said that CLANNAD, especially the After Story, is one of if not the best piece of work that Maeda Jun and his cowriters at Key have ever penned to date; is such praise mere hyperbole, or does it live up to everything which has been said about it?


Storyline Quality

Though it is ostensibly the same overall narrative, the CLANNAD storyline is definitely comes in the two different phases which came from the visual novel itself; the School Life arc, which covers the entire first season of CLANNAD and the first 8 episodes of the second season, and the After Story, which covered the rest. Because of this, the storyline should be looked at in this manner respectively.

The School Life story arc, which spans across KyoAni’s take on the individual story arcs of the five “main” girls as well as some side stories, is a pretty good watch in itself. While it had some emotionally affecting moments, such as the end of the Fuuko and Kotomi arcs, it was otherwise a typical school life slice-of-life story, albeit with some of the best comedy for a series not entirely within the comedy genre. What it was not, despite the forays into the story arcs of two of the “main” female characters, was a standalone work meant to match the previous couple of Key offerings in terms of epic emotionality; despite one point where it becomes a harem sequence, the School Life arc was always about the starting point of the main couple, and how they grew and matured through the interactions of the people around them. By itself, it was an above-average school-life comedy/romance that based itself around the building relationship between Okazaki Tomoya and Furukawa Nagisa, and thus helped us to get acquainted, familiar, and eventually invested in the shared fate between the two.

But as for the After Story….ah, that is a whole new level altogether. Without the School Life arc, we would not have become as invested in Tomoya and Nagisa as we have, and it is this foundation of great emotional investment in the main couple that gives the After Story as much impact as it does. And indeed, it is safe to say that the first part of After Story belonged to these two; we watched as they struggled to adjust to a lot less fun, lot more serious way of life as full members of society, a far cry from the relatively halcyon days of their schooling days. We witnessed them maturing through the times, starting a family of their own, and after the key point where Nagisa was taken out of the equation, we saw how the broken Tomoya eventually managed to pick himself up, and come to terms with the greatest loss in his life, as well as the good that came out of it still; his daughter Ushio, who proceeds to lead her father on further journeys of development, growth and resolution in her mother’s stead, to the bitter end and beyond. In short, the suggestion that CLANNAD, especially the After Story portion, is quite probably the best piece of work ever written by Maeda and produced by Key is not mere hyperbole; it is indeed worthy of such a claim, even despite the less-than-perfect ending which caps off the run of one of the most memorable stories ever.

Still, it should bear mentioning that without the setup of the School Life arc, the After Story probably would not have as much impact as it did; in that sense, the CLANNAD storyline is indeed an overall narrative to be taken as such in its own right. There are few other series which hold as its themes this much joy, this much pain, this much fun, this much grief, and ultimately, this much love; it is indeed the narrative of Family, as was promised by Maeda years ago when he named the title of Key’s third release what it is.

Rating for Storyline Quality: 9.3/10


Pacing

As with all previous KyoAni Key adaptations, the pacing of both seasons of CLANNAD were generally smooth throughout, with the exceptions of several hiccups here and there. The School Life arc in particular goes at a steady clip, and while the first 8 episodes of ~After Story~ interrupted the flow of the narrative somewhat, equilibrium was fully restored by the 9th episode, when the actual After Story content from the visual novel fully kicked into gear at that point.

Things started getting faster from then on, but never did it feel rushed even as the story covered approximately a decade in the same amount of time that it covered one year in the School Life arc. This could be because of the fundamentally different nature of both sets of narrative, for while the School Life material was a relaxed telling of high school antics within a group of friends, the After Story material tracked the important milestones of the main couple over their continually maturing relationship. From then on, though the narrative relied on one more time skip to get to the final portion of its story, it wasted no time on attaining resolutions on all the loose ends which had been present since the very beginning, even though it went into the final stretch of the last episode perhaps a little too quickly. Apart from the first 8 episodes of the second season, never have I felt that the narrative could have benefited from moving faster or slower; it was at all the right speeds, at the right times.

Rating for Pacing: 8.8/10


Internal Consistency

For the most part, CLANNAD’s overall narrative retained a decent level of consistency throughout; although the first 8 episodes were a slight blip on the consistency front, for the most part every thread in the story tied up nicely, all the way until the end at least in the “real world” part of the setting. The one thing about Key works is that they tend to tie back into a fantastical element which isn’t always fully explained, and it is no different in the case of CLANNAD with the existence of the Illusionary World, the presence of which is, while explained at the very end, remains rather ambiguous as to its very nature. Because of this, whether a viewer can accept the ambiguously fantastical element of the CLANNAD narrative is pretty much rooted in personal mileage. Still overall, CLANNAD has a decent level of consistency throughout its overall narrative, which makes for a nice experience overall.

Rating for Internal Consistency: 8.3/10


In the end, CLANNAD was everything it was said to be; the best story from Key to date, and quite possibly a standard that even Maeda himself, as he personally has admitted, may never reach again. Though the challenge of adapting a multi-path visual novel source into a linear anime series meant a drop in consistency was inevitable, and though there was a point when the flow of the narrative wasn’t as smooth as it usually was, KyoAni once again proves their mettle as the studio to go to for adaptations of original source material, and the exceptional journey may, despite its flaws, well become a classic to be remembered long after its broadcast.

Overall Rating for Script: 8.7/10

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Overall Execution

Overall, CLANNAD (TV) and CLANNAD ~After Story~ is a long, long journey that shall remain memorable long after the excitement of its experience has died down. The collaboration between Key Visual Arts and Kyoto Animation has created an epic narrative, the scope of which could be challenged by few others in its genre, and which brought joy, grief, love, and sorrow to all who have stuck with it to the bitter end and beyond. Once again, Key/KyoAni has set a new standard within visual novel anime adaptations; for years to come, when viewers ponder the merits of a romance drama airing in the near future, they will inevitably compare it to the epic scope of the CLANNAD narrative, for it would have become a classic in its own right. CLANNAD is Family. CLANNAD is Life.

Final Rating for CLANNAD (TV) and CLANNAD ~After Story~: 9.1/10. Rounded down to: 9/10

[Sorrow-K]

I'm a little disappointed that After Story isn't getting its own Overall Series Impressions thread since I would have liked the opportunity to talk just about that.

Anyway, I've written two blog posts on After Story (1 (http://behind-the.nihonreview.com/20090307/a-few-thoughts-on-clannad-after-story/),2 (http://behind-the.nihonreview.com/20090319/a-weak-attempt-to-justify-the-ending-of-clannad-after-story/)) and a formal review for Clannad (http://www.nihonreview.com/anime/clannad/), and my opinion on either hasn't really changed since I wrote those articles. Honestly I don't really have much to say now on Clannad that I haven't already said or that hasn't been said before.

As far as ratings are concerned, my rating for Clannad is a "Good" 7/10, and my rating for Clannad After Story is an "Awesome" 8/10. Philosophically, I don't think they should be rated together, since they are two separate series, IMO.

[chikorita157]

Animation - 8/10 (4:3 ver), 9.0/10 (16:9 ver)
Clannad have extremely well animation since it’s Kyoto Animation after all, but nurfed significantly because TBS only showed 4:3 which took away the quality of the animation, but it was solved with the 16:9 fullness we have seen with Kanon (2006) and Air. What impressed me more is the use of CGI in the Imaginary World which is well done.

Story Line - 9.5/10
Clannad’s main and reoccurring theme is the importance of family, friendships and relationships.Tomoya, a 17 year old student becomes a delinquent after the death of his mother and the inability to get along with his father. Tomoya’s life changed after meeting a girl named Nagisa, and soon after making friends with 4 other girls, Kyou, Kotomi, Tomoyo and Fuko and solving their problems when tragedy hits after Nagisa decided to revive the Drama Club. After the day of Nagisa’s performance, Tomoya decides to start a relationship with her and ultimately marrying her. During that time, Tomoya psychologically matures with the Imaginary World in his dream in addition to solving his issues.

Ibuki Fuko
Fuko’s arc is entertaining and also crushes you sadly, but not nearly as Mokoto’s arc in Kanon. With Tomoya playing planks on Fuko, having her dressed up as a maid, her poking Sunohara’s face, and lastly, the Starfish festival. After her arc, however, she pops up which some people who don’t like Fuko get annoyed at. Later on in After Story, she is alot funnier with jokes about IBCMs and her adoration of Ushio since “she is so cute”.

Ichinose Kotomi
Kotomi is a enjoyable character, just like Kawasumi Mai from Kanon which is also quiet and also highly intellectual, but in a more realistic situation compared to fighting demons. Like Mai, Kotomi had a childhood friend aka Tomoya which was forgotten until recently. She comes alot more open after the help of Nagisa and company and also have some minor role in After Story. Her cuteness probably made her arc really enjoyable.

Kyou and Ryou
Kyou is our favorite Tsundere… with her aggressive side, punching/slapping Tomoya and kicking and throwing dictionaries at Sunohara. However, her famous “being locked in the gym storage scene.” Sadly, her arc did not fit well with the main heroine’s arc, and she got shafted badly, including Ryou and Kappei’s arcs.

Side note: Fujibayashi twins are so familar to the Hiiragi twins from Lucky Star, dispite of them coming around the same time… it’s most likely pure coincidence

Sakagami Tomoyo
Tomoyo is a very likable character mainly because of her beauty… and kicking Sunohara around over 9000 times (just kidding about the over 9000 times part, but alot.) Like Kyou’s arc, she didn’t get much in way of her adaptation of her arc, but she did get a OVA which covered her arc which make people want a “Tomoyo After” adaptation.

Nevertheless, Tomoyo remains the most popular girl by fans of Clannad…

Yukine, Misae, Sunohara Twins
First of, the Sunohara Twins arc is just so funny… Why…. mainly because Sunohara is dating Sanae-san, and also Mei-chan calling Tomoya “onii-chan” with dangerously high moe levels (I don’t care much about moe though).

Next, we have Misae’s arc which Misae back in the day is surprisingly a Tsundere… and also another side note, Shima crosdressing as a girl, due to his overly feminine appearance. Soon after, Misae’s fulfills Shima’s promise of meeting him at the Fall Festival.

Lastly, we have Yukine’s arc… which is entertaining with the fights and tradgic… as always… Yukine’s charms can be dangerous…

Furukawa Nagisa
Lastly we have Nagisa, a third-year student who have to repeat her grade due to her illness. Tomoya meets her and helps her revive the Drama Club. Like always, Nagisa is very cute, although she denies it. With the help of Tomoya, she becomes stronger and also gets into a relationship with him and decides to have a child.

Compared to previous heroines of Key, Nagisa seems to be down to earth more so than Misuzu or even Ayu which makes her a more likable character.

After Story
Episode 10 and onwords, the story gets more interesting and also better as we see Tomoya starting to work as a Electrician while Nagisa goes and repeat her third year yet again. After Nagisa’s graduation, we see them get married and start living together and also see Nagisa in a waitress uniform. Tragedy strike, and with that, the audience see their feelings crushed as Nagisa dies after giving birth to Ushio and Tomoya going into depression like his father, but the good thing is that Key and Kyoani did not drag out the depression part. Tomoya and Ushio start making up with each other finally in Episode 18 which seems to have the most feeling in After Story. Soon after, we have some period of happiness in 2 episodes, until Episode 21 with the death of Ushio and Tomoya fainting. The problem with both the bad and good endings is that the storyline of the source material is non-linear and inorder show both endings, they need to use a time warp to shore it up. The bad ending seems to be forced which turned off most audiences, but the ending of After Story was sightly better than Kanon (2006) since it only had one miracle opposed to 5 miracles and lastly reenforces the importance of Family at the end of the story. Some will say that the ending is a “Deux ex machina,” but most will appreciate the ending, even with some minor flaws and it’s also beautiful. Also, it would be rather pointless to show all the Imaginary World sequences if there was no good ending shown.

Music - 10/10
As with all Key’s visual novels, Clannad have very good music… I especially liked the OP of Clannad and also OP and ED of After Story. No doubt, Key have done a outstanding job with music.

Last words
Overall, after watching Clannad in nearly 60 days (with catching up in the first seasons and the first half of After Story), Kyoto Animation and Key should be proud yet again of producing a outstanding melodrama I seen so far even though it had some minor flaws. I recommend watching Clannad and also After Story because they are enjoyable and touching story (but watch the 16:9 version, it’s much better).

Overall Rating: 9.7/10

Misc Ratings:

Voice Acting: 9.8/10

Adaptation: 10/10 - (even though it left out some arcs.)

[Kaiba]

Score: 8.1 out of 10.
Scenery Porn.


That was how I got into Clannad, with prominent members on another forum I frequent ranting about how beautiful the background was. I chose to give it a shot for the heck of it, and I am glad that I made that decision.

The first season was overall not bad, but was inferior to the After Story (though that is just as true in the game). The first few episodes were an interesting way to get someone new to be accustomed to the world, and things were pretty interesting from the get-go, with Kotomi, Kyou and Tomoyo making me smile in various ways or another. However, I nearly dropped it after the Fuuko route, as it was for me a poor start. Fuuko’s hyperactiveness and naivety more irritated me than anything else, and thus I had notable difficulty empathizing with her as her troubles grew. The fact that supernatural stuff just sort of appeared all of a sudden was for me a further turn-off initially – keep in mind that I was new to Key and thus was completely unfamiliar with their pattern, and thus viewed the whole supernatural stuff as some junk completely out of left field. I frankly dropped it for a short while after 8, and while I picked it back up after 10, I have never watched Episode 9 of the first season (though I know what happens, thanks to the game).


Next was Kotomi’s route, which for me was utterly fantastic, with Episode 14 becoming the first episode where I gave them a 9. I found her story incredibly touching, what with her sorrow, what she had to put up with, and just her reaction to being brought to the world around her which she had ignored for so long. Tomoya’s determination to help her was for me a significant part in his growth, as it was really the first time when he chose to help someone for the sake of helping others and not for the sake of killing time, which was why he initially chose to help Fuuko and help in the drama club. After the power of that arc, I knew that I had to continue it.


The next few episodes were interesting, and while deredere Kyou was a nice scene, it really made respect Tomoyo more than anyone. I did not like Nagisa at this point in the story, and thus was a little annoyed in the finale of Episode 18. However, Kyou also irritated me – pushing her sister onto Tomoya was annoying from my perspective, and her losing it in contrast to Tomoyo’s grace and quiet dignity at the end of Episode 18 did not endear her to me too much. I like Kyou to a degree, but at this point, I do prefer second season Nagisa (who for me is almost a completely different character from herself in the first season), Tomoyo, and Kotomi over her. They weren’t bad episodes, but overall, there wasn’t anything in them that overall impressed I in the same way that Kotomi’s arc just amazed me.


The next few episodes were the important ones, the formation of the drama club into something real, and the realization of Nagisa’s dream. Tomoya moving out was a powerful scene – perhaps it was me, but I was always somewhat sympathetic to Naoyuki, as he never seemed that bad of a person – just someone who had lost an emotional bond to his son, and had no clue as to how to reconnect. Everyone working together to form the drama club was pretty awesome to me, as well as the constant back and forth between Tomoya and Nagisa. When Nagisa found out about her parent’s secret and lost it, it irritated me and impressed me more with Nagisa just being a weak person – but it gave the Furukawa parents, who are absolutely splendid characters, a time to shine absolutely dramatically, as well as Tomoya to rush towards Nagisa and show the degree to which he has grown – Okazaki Tomoya from the beginning of the first season would have never done what he did at the end, rushing towards Nagisa and shouting out that she must perform for the sake of everyone else. That scene was powerful, the confession scene (which was also pretty good), made me give Episode 22 Clannad’s second 9. (I didn’t watch 23 as I thought 22 was the end of the first season, and while I found out I was wrong, I never got around to watching it).


Over the summer, I went and downloaded the game, and played through it. The After Story was absolutely spectacular – Kotomi’s route in the game is my favorite of the School Life, but After Story blew it out of the water, and thus I began the second season with incredibly high hopes of what it could do.
It was an unimpressive start. The baseball scene was a nice start, but then we went with three arcs which I didn’t care too much and were frankly not that well presented in the series. It was a poor start, but I did see signs of Nagisa becoming more mature and stronger than we ever saw throughout the second season, so I kept patient. Episode 9 was the true start of the After Story, and it was a very good start – Tomoya’s concern over Nagisa was touching, and while I was incredibly depressed with Kotomi being put on a bus, I knew it was going to happen, so I grumbled and sat back at the end of Episode 9, which was very good.


The next few episodes were very good, as expected from the true After Story, and KyoAni did a good job at adapting things. The dynamic between Nagisa and Tomoya was sweet and endearing, and there were many, many well-done scenes here, such as the marriage proposal, Yusuke’s story, and the concern over Nagisa’s pregnancy. And then the scene came, the one where I and everyone knew what was coming – and I was disappointed. Nagisa’s death scene was for me disappointing, with the fact that they made it way too obvious that she was going to die spoiling a lot of tension to which happened (the fucking ED didn’t make things better – whoever came up with that ED needs to be shot for completely spoiling the mood). It could have been more powerful than it turned out, and I didn’t even come close to crying during 16. The next episode covered Tomoya’s reaction, and while depressing, it was rather okay.

And then 18 happened.


Clannad After Story is not the best show this season – Toradora and Kannagi were just plain better and more interesting from my perspective. But this episode, episode 18 is one of the greatest things I have ever seen, in any media. When Ushio started crying in Tomoya’s arms and the music started, I felt like I was hit by a truck – and yet it was one of the best feelings I have ever had. It will be an episode which I hope to God will stick in my life for all of eternity. It made this person, someone who rolled his eyes and chuckled at the end of Grave of the Fireflies, to break down completely and sob uncontrollably for the next five minutes. While I had only given out 6 nines for the previous 40-odd episodes combined, Clannad After Story 18 became the third 10 I had ever given out in 4 years of watching anime – it is without a doubt the greatest episode of Clannad by far, and it is so touching, so unbelievably sad yet heartwarming that …. Words cannot describe it. This was the high point, a point so amazing and touching that nothing after this episode could even touch the high which this episode had reached – if Kyo Ani had just ended with this, everything would have been terrific.


Yet unfortunately, they had to continue on. Ushio was presented splendidly, and was unlawfully cute. While they had to drag Fuuko again, she was actually fairly well done for once, as Ushio’s awesomeness simply balanced out Fuuko’s sheer irritating behavior. Seeing Kyou was also nice, and the dynamic between the two was touching – it helped show one of the key points of the game, which is that you will lose touch with those you interacted with in high school. 19 and 20 were very good episodes, and while not as good as 18, that is nothing to be ashamed of.


The end suffered from the fact that ultimately, I felt that there was really no way in which Kyo Ani could do it in a way that would be understandable from the perspective of someone who has not played the game already, and they really did it as well as they could to make sense to the average viewer. While Kyo Ani really did do a decent job, the material they had to work within the ending was pretty bad, and thus I knew there would bad reaction to it – to tell the truth, there was far less “WTF is this shit” than I really expected. I think people just kind of realized that it was Key being Key, and to some degree, they let it go. While Kyo Ani did a decent job at adapting the ending, it was a fairly irritating ending, and they did suffer for it. Having Fuuko run around the end didn’t help things from my perspective, especially I had completely forgotten that scene existed in the game, and was thus completely irritated with an episode like this ending with that idiot running around.


Overall, this was a good series – not very good, but good. While it hit incredible highs, the fact is that the pacing was rather meh, as I felt that Clannad did have excessive focus on the minor characters. While the story is powerful, it could have improved. While overall, it was good adaptation, it could have been better, and there have been far better series out there, and for this year. As I said, I give these 8.1 out of 10 – it was a good series, and one can get into it – yet there were problems with certain members of the cast, and at times it’s completely forgettable. I do think that one should watch this series, however, and be patient with it – if nothing else, just to see the 18th episode of the After Story.

[Proto]

I was going to start writing this review going through a nice and tidy deconstruction of the series different merits and downfalls. Separate them through a clearly structured review passing through the different technical aspects of the series, and at the end giving an overall, ponderated review of the series.

And then I realized that if I did that, it would be the same as I normally do with series that fail to impress me beyond the level of a B series.

And that's because if I start to intellectually analyze a series, that's because the series failed to impact me in an emotional level. I don't see see, read, or hear any form of art in order to calmly evaluate the different aspects of a creation. If I wanted to do that I'd enter some paper database and search for some article that would help me write my dissertation, that would be a much more productive use of my time.

It's the same with anime. When I watch anime I don't want to think 'oh! Did you saw the inflection that that VA used during that scene? That just showed how experienced she is at portraying those kind of characters' or 'Wow, what masterful use of the color palette by the animation studio during that segment' or anything of the like. I want to cry, I want to laugh, I want to rage, ANYTHING, but overall, I WANT TO BE MOVED. Make me tear, make me lol, but for god sake, if something makes me go analyzing point per point the different, merits of a series, it won't go beyond a 9 level series for me. Ever.

tl, dr: I want to have an emotional attachment to the characters, plot, or general message of the series. I want to cry when the characters feel sad, to laugh with them, to feel for them. If I have the time to stop and think about the BGM or the color palette it's because the series isn't just being good enough.

As such, screw technical reviews. CLANNAD is a series that made me feel for almost all of its characters. It made me cry as few other series had made me cry. Yes, it made me laugh. As such, it receives a 10/10 for me, and screw everything else. It is up there with the only other 3 series that had made me feel this strongly: Haibane Renmei, ARIA and Figure 17. Other series might be up to and beyond CLANNAD in the technical aspect, but if I'm not feeling the same as what the characters are feeling minute per minute, then sorry, but you won't get any honors degree with me.

[Sidestep]

Rather than writing a large review, I'll just say this.

Clannad. When I watch it, I can learn from the characters. I can relate to the characters. I can feel as if I'm right there in the show. You build up such a strong connection with the story and it's cast, that it's practically torture for the show to end. At least, that's how I feel about Clannad. Easily my favorite anime.

10/10

[velvet]

What Proto said. :)

I have never yet give to any numerical rating to any episode, any series, and have no intention to begin anytime soon.
So this is just going to be another thought of mine about Clannad,

Music...
Always be the kind of person that get stirred by BGMs, be it in the past, now, and I think for the rest of my life. That's just how I am.
Negai ga Kanau Basho and Sora ni Hikaru was the two hard shots in this show, similar to Kaze o Matta hi in Kanon, and Sousei back in AIR.
Be it in the VN or in the anime, whenever those two popped up, my eyes get watery. Yes the scene is the actual perpetrator, but still the BGM has never helped.:rolleyes:

By episode 18, another track hits me. It was Haruka na Toshitsuki.
To this day, whenever I hear this tune, I remembered how Tomoya remembered and accepted Naoyuki.
A father that vowed to raise his son by his own hands no matter what,
yet at somepoint, everything went wrong.

Nagisa and Ushio is another piece still.
They were named after mother and daughter of this series, which we never get to see interact with each other (that, until Memories of a Town gets animated;)).
And I think Nagisa is the best score Key had ever produced to this moment,
I am, actually, in love with this tune, humming it out of nowhere, all before I even knew that it was a piece of itself (I always thought it was Dango Daikazoku without vocals).

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Tomoya - Nagisa

To me Clannad will always be a tale.

A tale about a boy,
about how he become,
a son,
a friend,
a lover,
a husband,
and finally... a father.

Beside him, a girl,
and how she actually become,
a daughter,
a friend,
a lover,
a wife,
and a mother, even when she was not actually beside her family.

a little child,
who inherited her mother's resolution,
to no longer cry, no matter what hardships may come.
Watashi, Okazaki Nagisa wa, mou nakimasen.
Her mother's resolution, to live strongly, despite being weak.
a little song, passed on from mother to child...
and none of us should ever see Dango Daikazoku the same way again. Ever. :rolleyes:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So how much did Clannad means to me?
As much as the fact that I will never forget this tale for all my life.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At the end, I want to thank both AQS-Sprocket-theWaffleHouse and SS-Eclipse for accompanying us, throughout this journey. I can never thank you guys enough.
I also apologize if I ever offended anyone in the weekly discussion thread.
A big and warm thanks to everyone discussing, may we have another wonderful journey in the future.
With or without realizing it, Clannad has given us a chance to talk to each other, and it's been wonderful. [/cheesy]

/duel Maeda jun

[Kaioshin Sama]

Going into this series I honestly didn't think I was going to be terribly impressed with it, and really at first I wasn't at all. The opening episodes and frankly much of the first season were absolutely brutal for a person who is as stingy with his comedy as I am and I actually dropped it at one point only to catch up and finish it near the end of it's run. I also found that the less Sunohara (still one of the most annoying characters I have ever had to endure in an anime) there was the more favourable I was towards any given episode. If I had to give the first season a score it would probably be something like a generous 6.5, thanks mostly to the finale episodes and parts of the Kotomi arc hitting home with me.

After Story started with me similar to how the first season did and I more or less rolled my eyes at some of the attempts at what I assume was supposed to pass as comedy (again I am extremely stingy when it comes to comedy), and none of the mini-arcs did much of anything for me, but once we got into the actual After Story I got to see why it was that game players claim the them of Clannad is family. Episode 10-20 were among the strongest this series had to offer for me, and honestly if it had ended there with episode 20 I would have probably given this series a full pardon for making suffer through it's "comedy", but alas as I have previously mentioned the final two episodes (21-22 in my book were the final two) felt like a convolution and derailment of what the preceeding couple of episode were trying to get across as far as the responsibilities of the family unit go and no amount of trying to rationalize it's purpose or how it was possible (not that I really care cause that's no the issue) can rationalize that for me. What we got with the idea put across by the final episode just didn't seem as strong or powerful as what we got with the 16-20 arc.

So where does that leave me for the second series. If I'm going to try and BS some number across to convey my impression of it, I guess 7.5 or something. Putting the two seasons together I get an average of 7.0 (yeah numbers :rolleyes:) and a general impression of "well that was a lot better then I ever thought it was going to be". Now I'm not an expressive person when it comes to giving impressions of anime, so you won't really here me going "RAH RAH Clannad!" or "BOOOOO RESET!" or anything of the sort, so don't go expecting that sort of thing. Just let it be known that outside of the "comedy" Clannad managed to for the most part exceed my expectations in most categories and generate an interest in it's story and characters. This for a person who is not really into or drawn to the romance, slice-of-life or whatever you want to call Clannad's genre, or prone to any sort of really heavy or extreme emotion (which in my opinion the series relied far to much on it's viewers to feel for it's own good) that can be described as lasting should be taken as a fair bit of praise. Though obviously I'm not as totally 100% sold on the whole series as your average person here. Just not die hard or easily swayed by emotion enough to be all over this show as some of the others are.

[-Sho-]

Animation Quality: 10 Good characters .
Voice Actors: 10 Good voices .
Script: 7 Well , good story but the thing with the other world make me confuse .
Adaptation from Game: - I didn't play the game .

Total = 9/10 . It was a pleasant anime with some humors , dramas , romances ...
But it lacks of "Kiss" :p

[DJLowrider]

I only have one "perfect 10" in my long history of being an anime fan and it is not Clannad. It is a great series, to be sure, but it does have its flaws and they do detract from it enough to drag it down slightly in my estimation.

That said, Clannad still manages to be #3 on my Top 5 list and for plenty of good reasons. The story, the characters, the music and the animation are all splendid. Few anime have ever made me experience such a wide range of emotion as Clannad did. It made me laugh and think on a number of levels, but more than anything else it gave me a whole new appreciation for my family and how much I love the people in it.

My final rating for Clannad is a 9. Fantastic series with a message anyone can relate to and it should be at the top of recommendation lists for romantic drama series everywhere. And it's pretty hilarious at times to boot. I just feel that a lot of the side character stories and development could have been handled better or not be quite so rushed.

[Ushio]

I give it a 9. :D

I love the laughter and agreement initiated by me when I read so many posts claiming how Clannad induced tears, or how Clannad is amazing, or the impact Clannad gave... Part of the fun was coming on this forums and simply sifting through post after post on many different opinions. Clannad made interesting fans, to say the least.

The music is memorable and really fits the series. I love all the songs except the ending song. Animation was great, but it was not so much the fact it was breathtaking or amazing or super-duper-awesome or etc; rather, it did very well accentuating what really mattered - the story.

I had no problems with voice acting, and I loved all the characters. Each one of them played a part, and they're like a part of a huge, loving family!! >A< I only give it a 9 because parts of the first and second season felt like they 'dragged' on for a bit, but that's something minor.



Clannad is very beautiful.. Like life, except animated.

[dgreater1]

I rate it 10/10 for ALL NEW EXPERIENCE. I'm an easily pleased person.

[anime ronin]

rate it 10/10. it was a very great anime that i loved!

[Full Metal Jackass]

as a 9 only because something has to be pretty bad ass to get a 10. good story and i liked the characters. also i almost stopped watching after the death scene in the snow but thankfully i saw on here that reality might be a bit different. also i love series that make me think about life in general.

[Kirku]

Giving this series a 10/10 mainly for the reason that there hasn't been an anime that has made me tear up and actually start bawling since i watched Kanon.

This anime was fantastic and very touching, i think it might be awhile before i can ever watch another series that weighs on my heart this much.

Also Ushio-chan is so Kawaii^^

[OmegaPhlare]

I love this show. CLANNAD is my happy place; just thinking about the show fills my heart with joy, because for me it was great times. I am happy that everyone was okay at the end of the series, because I thought that their stories were all great. There wasn't a week where I didn't look forward to watching the next episode and sure enough I enjoyed every episode no matter how crazy things got. (IE, Sunohara and Tomoya fighting the soccer club and then each other). It may sound like I enjoy many things simply because they are what they are but I just can't feel this way about other anime. CLANNAD is something special.

I really love the music of CLANNAD, especially the opening and ending themes for After Story. Which by the way, I'm secretly, severely pissed when people speak bad about Torch, which is the song I love so much and whistle to myself when in an overly joyous mood. But I consider that it isn't the song they dislike, but that it comes after the sad episodes.

[bladeofdarkness]

my flat out fave kyoani show so far
maybe later i would expend on this but for now just wanted to say this
flat out best

[Ceral]

I guess I will weigh-in right now while the topic is relevant. I'd prefer to wait until I can marathon s1 and s2 and really sit down and think about the series but that won't be happening until Summer and exams are over. So I'll give my impression of the series after watching it on a weekly basis and save a more thorough post for later.

First off, it is very, very hard for me to pinpoint an exact rating for Clannad. I guess sort of like Tomoya's story, this show has been ecstasy at times and then a bit "unejoyable" at times. Like others have said, the mini arcs at the start and the discombobulated ending marred the overall rating I would have given it. But unlike others who have said the same, the overall rating I probably would have given the show if it were perfect would be far and away over a 10, because I love this kind of a series and I loved the middle. So it's hard for me to give it a rating, because does it still get a 10 despite obvious flaws? Something with obvious flaws shouldn't get a 10, I think...

Ideally, I think a 10 should be given to a series that at least keeps your attention from the start(it can be a little slow for ~3 episodes), but eventually it should draw you in(the sooner the better) and keep your utmost attention all the way to the very end. And the ending should leave you feeling like you spent your time watching something that was clever or poignant and intelligently made. Air and Kanon, season1, all fit the bill, After Story did not though. Yet, I know that I enjoyed some of the parts from After Story more than anything I've seen in Air or Kanon or even season 1 which I would all give 10's to. So those more powerful scenes have to account for something.

I believe that every episode needs to be relevant to the overall story, in some way. I don't mean that there should be no filler scenes or mini-arcs. Such episodes can work, even if it's just a couple scenes during the filler episode where series' tones and themes are accentuated in those few scenes. In the case of Clannad doing it the right way, it was Tomoya singing to his Daughter or him crying over the loss of Nagisa, or creating some interest in the hospital with Ushio mysteriously visiting it. Something as small as that makes an episode relevant to me. It drives the moral of the story home a little closer. But, I don't want any complete throw away episodes. The first ~8 episodes I felt were just about throw-aways(I will have to watch again to confirm this). I suppose the themes were intended to drive home the theme of family more, but those arcs were just too weak for me. They felt like completely different side-stories that had little consequence to the main themes.

I think the difference between the mini-arcs and the main arcs for side characters, like Fuuko, is that Fuuko's arc stays vivid in my mind even after her arc is done(from season 1 no less) I thnk that really contributes to an understanding of what Clannad is about. Forgettable mini-arcs don't do anything for me(I suppose whether they are memorable or not is up to the viewer, so maybe these arcs are powerful, "Relevant" for some.) Also, I like for any of the characters that were focused on to still stay relevant to the characters that the story is currently focusing on. I like for side-characters to be re-visited and to get updates on them. I like that Fuuko is a relevant part of the overall story even after her arc has ended. (On the other hand maybe I wouldn't want another episode with 5 minutes of Misae, Sunohara, and all of the side-characters either. So I think in After Story's case they just threw in too many arcs, when I would have preferred more focus on the main story.)

As for the ending, I prefer to save the climax for the ending, it feels like the climax of the story was in the middle, and everything after was downhill. There needs to be another, preferrably greater climax at the end. What they gave us at the end, did not feel like a climax to the themes of the story thus-far and all that happened up until the final episode. I would have preferred another episode or two at the end to really put-together what the ending theme of the story is about after all that's happened, that bringing happiness to people is what the story is about now, living life the way it's meant to be lived, not doubting your decisions for a second concerning the one's you love. They should have built up to that climax some more, because the way it's done, is that it's just sort of thrown in there, it's a vague message they're sending. I want a powerful message that will move me. It just doesn't have the proper build-up that the main theme of a story of this caliber deserves. If it is an important theme, which it should be since it's supposed to be their climax, the final theme of the show which should be the lasting theme of the show, should be built up just as well as episode 18. With two episodes showing Ushio & Tomoya's relationship. The ending should have just as much build-up, there should be two episodes showing the relationship between Tomoya and the miracle.

The beginning with the mini-arcs and the ending are such glaring flaws it's very hard to give the series a 10. But, thinking about it, this thread is about considering the series overall, and I think when it all comes down to it, that the middle arc is so memorable and powerful that it makes it worth watching over anything else so far this last year IMO. It is strange to give something a "perfect score" when it obviously has flaws, but I would say that this show is definitely a must-see show more so than say Kanon, which I gave a 10 to(Which was enjoyable from start to finish and had some amazing story arcs IMO). But since I would have to give the nod to Clannad, when comparing the two, I think I would by default have to give After Story a 10, because it's better than some stories that I've already given a 10 to.

Overall, great show. So now I'll just throw in some thoughts on the technical aspects and spout out some other ramblings: Tomoya, Ushio, Tomoya's Grandmother had perfect voice acting for that dramatic episode. One could not hope for better voice actors for serious roles IMO. I hope they'll appear in drama series' again in the future. The Furukawa's, and Fuuko, they had perfect voices for a feel good story and for bits of comedy(Well I already knew that about Kikuko Inoue). I hope Ai Nonaka will get a main role in a comedy(Bigger than the one she has in Zetsubou) On the whole I could not envision better voice actors for the series, at least for the main roles.

Music, is always spot on with the animation, that is truly an art in itself to get the scenes to match up with the music. The way distant years starts off somber and sad as Tomoya recollects about the harsh past he spent with his father, and the way as soon as Tomoya becomes resolute about how to think about his Father, the music picks up, and he says "iie" or no in response to whether his father was a bad father. The turning point in the characters way of thinking is exactly on key with the turning point in the music. Perfect directing by all of the staff for that episode.

Animation was a bit off though throughout the series, it was inconsistent. This is just conjecture, but I think they have two studios working on the animation. Their main studio, Studio Blue? worked on the important episodes and their child animation studio, Studio Do seemed to get the episodes that were less important to the main arc...

In summary, they upped the ante with Clannad: After Story, they ended up jumbling and botching a few parts here and there, which is the first time I've seen KyoAni make a mistake in my eyes(Seeing torch was when doubt first crept in, I said so in the music section when the first episode came out.) But in the end I gotta give Clannad a 10, the story just soared too high there in the middle to not give it a 10. However, because of the errors that I saw, from now on I'll once again be a bit apprehensive in the future products from this studio. Just when I thought I could take the work coming out of KyoAni for granted as being just about perfect too...(K-on! already seems a bit rocky and ordinary man :D IMO). But as far as Clannad goes, I must just say: Bravo Clannad!, you had me hooked from the first episode of season 1 all the way to the end of After Story, I will always treasure the memories of the characters and the story.

[Leo_Otaku]

Animation Quality: 9.5
The animation quality was amazing. Despite having a few scenes not as well as others, overall fantastic. Really vibrant colors, amazing attention to movements and details. Some fight scenes needed work and a few bits here and there.

Voice Actors: 10
Amazing work. Overall just fantastic! Each character was cast perfectly.

Adaptation from Game: 8
Well we did confuse alot of people who had not played the game. I think a couple restarts that made people realize them, without thinking it came out of nowhere. As well I have heard some people did not see the orbs (yeah whatever) maybe had more appearances in the anime. I personally found Yukine's story to be a spoiler but I'm just shocked that no one picked it up. I can't help but almost roll my eyes at people who could not have seen something from this story.
The scenes added and animated for the anime was fantastic. I loved seeing the Illusionary world and the final scene. Those were favorites as some other beautiful shots.
Points taken off for leaving out Kappei, Akio and Sanae's route and then going and having a re-cap 0_o not fair. I hope an OVA or something for Kyou or Kappei. As well lost point for not using Illusionary world as first scene in episode 1. a big mistake to me.
In all it was fine without the hints for game players but appealing for everyone else maybe some bigger hints or maybe people should pay attention better.

Editing:9
It is hard to say but some edits to some parts and longer additions we could of had Kappei or other arcs. As well music editing man...what was up with that. I big grip amoung us all. How could they put the endings like that?

Average = I would say 9.5 rounded off to a 10.

Probably the show's weakest point besides the reset. Nearly half the entire season was nonsensical and unnecessary side story arcs that didn't add anything. Misae's boyfriend being a cat, Tomoya beating up gang members... I dunno what they were thinking. The entire school portion just kept dragging and after we get through those we start rapidly leaping through months and years in the blink of an eye.

Seriously...your one of those that didn't pay enough attention to anything. You NEED to have the other story arcs to get the orbs It is the story of the people in the town, their happiness that grants the wish. Obviously explained in the show and here. They were thinking just fine. Yeah and Toradora has excellent pacing >.>

[qwertyuiopz]

9

as much as i wanted to give it a 10
i was quite disappointed with a few things >:@

[DeX-kun]

9

as much as i wanted to give it a 10
i was quite disappointed with a few things >:@

That is quite a vague impression, do you mind elaborating a little bit?

[Tak]

That is quite a vague impression, do you mind elaborating a little bit?

Psst, I bet it has something to do with the ending.

- Tak

[DeX-kun]

Psst, I bet it has something to do with the ending.

- Tak

lol :heh: Really? And here I thought it was because of the "magical reset" that seems to be popular. Oh wait...that is the ending :rolleyes:

Actually for some reason, I get the feeling that people like to make Toradora! as a rival to Clannad...

[Proto]

... wherever that came from?

[Tak]

Actually for some reason, I get the feeling that people like to make Toradora! as a rival to Clannad...

... which is like comparing apple to bananas...

- Tak

[DeX-kun]

... wherever that came from?

Well I've seen comments on this site as well as other forums talking about how great Toradora! was and that after watching Clannad, Toradora! was the only thing they could think of. That's where I get the feeling that people like to compare these 2 shows but I don't see any reason behind it.

... which is like comparing apple to bananas...

- Tak

Exactly. I watched Toradora! and although it was a nice show, I didn't find it very breathtaking but it was good none-the-less. Clannad is just a different show altogether and has a completely different feel, maybe it's because they were showing around the same time? Still, Clannad is on the top of my list :heh:

[Proto]

No, I mean, why bring it to this thread at all when it has only been mentioned in passing...

[DeX-kun]

No, I mean, why bring it to this thread at all when it has only been mentioned in passing...

An instinct really. I just mentioned it and that's about it really, I don't have much of a reason, I just type what comes to mind at the moment. :heh:

[Tak]

I mean, I could understand it if one was to compare Clannad with Kanon, which would make much more sense.

Kanon, which preceded Clannad, was pretty much used as a basis, as a lot of elements left from Kanon were kept intact in varying degrees.

Girl in coma? Check.
Girl in coma with spirit walking about? Check.
Animals turned into human being but could not sustain self? Check.
Certain food you just cannot eat? Check.

And many, many, others.

- Tak

[DeX-kun]

I mean, I could understand it if one was to compare Clannad with Kanon, which would make much more sense.

Kanon, which preceded Clannad, was pretty much used as a basis, as a lot of elements left from Kanon were kept intact in varying degrees.

Girl in coma? Check.
Girl in coma with spirit walking about? Check.
Animals turned into human being but could not sustain self? Check.
Certain food you just cannot eat? Check.

And many, many, others.

- Tak

Although you could eat the bread without any real side effects, the jam on the other hand...:heh:

[Tak]

Although you could eat the bread without any real side effects, the jam on the other hand...:heh:

Side effects with the jam? Well, not really. It doesn't really kill anyone or knock 'em cold.

Yet, when combined... it caused several students to faint. I am not too sure if it is the jam, or the bread...

- Tak

[qwertyuiopz]

Psst, I bet it has something to do with the ending.

- Tak

it was at first
but after figuring it out that it was from the vn ending then i didnt care

its the time skips
to think they would have time to do a full recap episode yet skip important short scenes like nagisa's funeral and their wedding

[DeX-kun]

it was at first
but after figuring it out that it was from the vn ending then i didnt care

its the time skips
to think they would have time to do a full recap episode yet skip important short scenes like nagisa's funeral and their wedding

I think a funeral would have detracted a little from the effect of her death but that's just my opinion. As for the Wedding, I think they didn't have time (speaking of Tomoya and Nagisa of course and not the director) to actually have a ceremony considering she became pregnant soon after getting married and then her illness kicked in. They got married by signing some papers but were planning to have a ceremony as soon as Tomoya saved up enough money but unfortunately, tragedy took the stage after her pregnancy.

[Leo_Otaku]

They did not have the wedding or funeral in the anime either. Agreed as above ^ it would detract from the show. It isn't about those things, they would be interesting but that would be a big step for kyo-ani to add that.

[Justin Kim]

They did not have the wedding or funeral in the anime either. Agreed as above ^ it would detract from the show. It isn't about those things, they would be interesting but that would be a big step for kyo-ani to add that.

Yep, a funeral wouldn't really seem Key-like, you gotta have that suprise/tragedy element added towards it, and then a bitter yet happy ending.

[Karlson]

I mean, I could understand it if one was to compare Clannad with Kanon, which would make much more sense.

Kanon, which preceded Clannad, was pretty much used as a basis, as a lot of elements left from Kanon were kept intact in varying degrees.

Girl in coma? Check.
Girl in coma with spirit walking about? Check.
Animals turned into human being but could not sustain self? Check.
Certain food you just cannot eat? Check.

And many, many, others.

- Tak

Because of Kanon I've not bothered stating my thoughts on Clannad as a whole. I likely would end up just making the mistake of comparing the two on many points and that wouldnt really be fair since I love Kanon and there really isnt much at all I can criticize Clannad for without making that comparison outside of the slow start in AS as well as its rather iffy (for me anyway) ending.

*begins thinking of rainbow colored bread smothered in that special jam.*

Well they do say bread and jam go hand in hand after all... :eyespin:

[DeX-kun]

*begins thinking of rainbow colored bread smothered in that special jam.*

Well they do say bread and jam go hand in hand after all... :eyespin:

...but Sanae's bread and jam are an exception, in this case it works more like tranquilizers. :heh:

[Justin Kim]

...but Sanae's bread and jam are an exception, in this case it works more like tranquilizers. :heh:

Lol tranquilizers? I would prefer the term - near poison. But anesthetics work I guess.

[Proto]

Hmm... can we move the idle talk to another thread? I don't think the total series rating thread is the most adequate for this conversation.

[fallschirmjager]

Yep, a funeral wouldn't really seem Key-like, you gotta have that suprise/tragedy element added towards it, and then a bitter yet happy ending.

Yeah I finished watching both Clannad and After Story last night - I haven't finished the game yet which I'm regretting now but oh well - and Episode 16 really shook me up.

It was like two in the morning when I finished that and I should have gone to bed but I stayed up to watch the last eight episodes and yeah I couldn't believe Nagisa was gone.

I think I'll have to go back and watch a couple of the last episodes as the ending is still a little hazy for me. I know it's like a miracle but I feel cheated as a viewer that everything went to shit but then suddenly it's alright.

I mean, how would have Tomoya gone on in the world where both Nagisa and Ushio died? As much as I love a happy ending it feels forced.

Overall it was a great series, loved the characters - Tomoyo's ending seemed rather sad to me, I guess I'll look into the Tomoyo After for some comfort there - and I really enjoyed it.

I laughed, I cried, I felt.

Can't ask for much more than that.

[Ithekro]

"I mean, how would have Tomoya gone on in the world where both Nagisa and Ushio died? As much as I love a happy ending it feels forced."


Basic answer: He wouldn't. He died shortly afterwards (likely of grief, exhaustion, and exposure).

[DeX-kun]

Yeah I finished watching both Clannad and After Story last night - I haven't finished the game yet which I'm regretting now but oh well - and Episode 16 really shook me up.

It was like two in the morning when I finished that and I should have gone to bed but I stayed up to watch the last eight episodes and yeah I couldn't believe Nagisa was gone.

I think I'll have to go back and watch a couple of the last episodes as the ending is still a little hazy for me. I know it's like a miracle but I feel cheated as a viewer that everything went to shit but then suddenly it's alright.

I mean, how would have Tomoya gone on in the world where both Nagisa and Ushio died? As much as I love a happy ending it feels forced.

Overall it was a great series, loved the characters - Tomoyo's ending seemed rather sad to me, I guess I'll look into the Tomoyo After for some comfort there - and I really enjoyed it.

I laughed, I cried, I felt.

Can't ask for much more than that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understood about the ending is that once Tomoya collapsed after witnessing his only reason to live, die in front of him, he himself literally dropped dead because of the strain and grief that he felt after losing both Nagisa and Ushio. Here's where it's interesting in my opinion, because it is a fact that he is a special person that is somehow able to exist in both the "illusionary world" and the world that was shown to us the majority of the time, it's more like his feelings/wishes were able to exist as a being (i.e. Robot Tomoya) in the "illusionary world."

Now, although he died in the other world, he still existed in the "illusionary world" where Ushio existed as well and this is where his wish came true, thus creating a miracle where he was given the chance to live in happiness instead of torment. You shouldn't feel cheated considering all of what you saw did happen and even Tomoya admits to having memories of the world where he lost everything. It's a matter of accepting the belief in miracles instead of fighting the plot.

I usually like to compare this to the deja-vu's people have every now and then, what if something like this actually happens? Sometimes we feel that we've done a similar action or have said similar words before in the same exact moment but have no reasons to explain the feeling. Who knows? There are things in this world that really can't be explained, you gotta have an open mind about it :heh:

[Justin Kim]

Basic answer: He wouldn't. He died shortly afterwards (likely of grief, exhaustion, and exposure).

Hence, the miracle was created afterwards with both "grown-up Ushio" and Tomoya the robot. It was truly a magical moment that scene, but the montage of what happened afterwards with Tomoya and Nagisa was kind of rushed in a sense. I wanted to see more of the family rather than just a series of moving pictures depicting the family growing up fast.

[DeX-kun]

Hence, the miracle was created afterwards with both "grown-up Ushio" and Tomoya the robot. It was truly a magical moment that scene, but the montage of what happened afterwards with Tomoya and Nagisa was kind of rushed in a sense. I wanted to see more of the family rather than just a series of moving pictures depicting the family growing up fast.

Blame the Fuko moments we had during half the episode...I'm all for Fuko but I think I would have preferred more Tomoya and Nagisa :heh:

[fallschirmjager]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understood about the ending is that once Tomoya collapsed after witnessing his only reason to live, die in front of him, he himself literally dropped dead because of the strain and grief that he felt after losing both Nagisa and Ushio. Here's where it's interesting in my opinion, because it is a fact that he is a special person that is somehow able to exist in both the "illusionary world" and the world that was shown to us the majority of the time, it's more like his feelings/wishes were able to exist as a being (i.e. Robot Tomoya) in the "illusionary world."

Now, although he died in the other world, he still existed in the "illusionary world" where Ushio existed as well and this is where his wish came true, thus creating a miracle where he was given the chance to live in happiness instead of torment. You shouldn't feel cheated considering all of what you saw did happen and even Tomoya admits to having memories of the world where he lost everything. It's a matter of accepting the belief in miracles instead of fighting the plot.

I usually like to compare this to the deja-vu's people have every now and then, what if something like this actually happens? Sometimes we feel that we've done a similar action or have said similar words before in the same exact moment but have no reasons to explain the feeling. Who knows? There are things in this world that really can't be explained, you gotta have an open mind about it :heh:

You've got a great head on your shoulders Dex.

I like to think I'm pretty open about things and I agree wholeheartedly with what you've said. I guess my disillusionment came from saying I'd be annoyed at another H20 Footprints in the Sand ending but I did enjoy the ending.

I'm craving more so I'm going to try and get the game going again.

[DeX-kun]

You've got a great head on your shoulders Dex.

I like to think I'm pretty open about things and I agree wholeheartedly with what you've said. I guess my disillusionment came from saying I'd be annoyed at another H20 Footprints in the Sand ending but I did enjoy the ending.

I'm craving more so I'm going to try and get the game going again.

I'm flattered by your words but I'm glad that you have an open mind ;) Now about the H20 Footprints in the Sand ending, it was heart breaking to see Hayami suffer through all that she went through but I believe that she was only a spirit at that time but it was an open type ending there as well. Still I wasn't all that happy about that ending, it was rather lack-luster in my opinion so I can feel your pain there :heh:

I can see where the Clannad ending would kind of be similar but Clannad focused mostly on the aspects of families and miracles rather than tragedy (e.g. H20). Having an open mind usually will allow one to enjoy this series more so than others with a more stern perspective.

[Justin Kim]

I'm flattered by your words but I'm glad that you have an open mind ;) Now about the H20 Footprints in the Sand ending, it was heart breaking to see Hayami suffer through all that she went through but I believe that she was only a spirit at that time but it was an open type ending there as well. Still I wasn't all that happy about that ending, it was rather lack-luster in my opinion so I can feel your pain there :heh:

I can see where the Clannad ending would kind of be similar but Clannad focused mostly on the aspects of families and miracles rather than tragedy (e.g. H20). Having an open mind usually will allow one to enjoy this series more so than others with a more stern perspective.

Open mind, very true. I mean you can't be a person who just generalizes all anime by the genre. Such as, if the anime is labeled as tragedy/romance, you can't just presume that the whole concept will revolve around death and the loss of close relationships. Allowing an open mind, allows more insight as to what Key was trying to tell it's audience, or what the characters are implying by behaving the way they normally do in each episode.

[CuXe]

Good lord, I might be a sucker for punishment .... they took the second series down the same path as the movie which was even more crushing; the only difference was that they tried to give the series a bittersweet ending so that it wouldn't end in total despair with the death of Nagisa and Ushio ....

I liked how they correlated that other world which had ended with the sporadic/mysterious lights in the town everyone lived in, the way they tried to scientifically link them by giving the whole argument to the most intelligent girl to explain... and also the way Nagisa and Ushio were saved with that miraculous turn of events

Needless to say this series crushed and squeezed a few years off my life .... dam I cried a lot :( .... and I ain't no cry baby

I loved all the happy moments and the overall realistic plot when it comes to the hardships that some couples do have to go through .... however they make the characters so cute and likable that at some point the pain becomes unbearable ...

I shall lift myself up with some action filled-meaningless anime (cough cough bleach cough naruto.. cough) or else I'll be depressed for the next few days....

[SaintessHeart]

It would certainly be more impressive if they are to run a set of OVAs on different endings with different girls, each lasting around 6 episodes. It seems that the Fuji twins arc has been set, but one thing I would like to see is a Kotomi arc.

Though what I really want is a Kotomi x Kyou arc.

[DeX-kun]

It would certainly be more impressive if they are to run a set of OVAs on different endings with different girls, each lasting around 6 episodes. It seems that the Fuji twins arc has been set, but one thing I would like to see is a Kotomi arc.

Though what I really want is a Kotomi x Kyou arc.

That's just asking for nosebleeds :heh:

[CrescentWind]

Overall lets just say that its a good romance/dramatic series xD
10/10 for me :]

[Vorenus]

Just finished the show today and thought I would give my impressions... mainly to dump myself from all the emotions this intense show has brought to me...

Well, I certainly didn't expect anything this intense from Clannad when I first watched it, out of boredom and due to its apparent popularity. This show is difficult to define to people not having watched it since it looks like your standard harem or slice of life anime at a first glance... while it clearly is different from it and other typical romance shows when actually watching it.

The first difference definitely is Tomoya Okazaki: a very good male lead, compared to poor male leads from other shows where romance is part of the story, who are either stupid, sexually-obsessed, if not both. Tomoya is a cool and genuinely nice guy and it is why most of the girls in the show have some interest in him: I knew someone back in high school which was exactly the same in that aspect and I am sure most of us do, which makes the character all the more realistic. However, Tomoya isn't just reduced to this and has a real personality and his own share of problems and personal demons. He gets a great deal of character development over the course of both seasons and is a quite credible and likable character throughout the show. Most likely my favorite character in Clannad, especially in the second part of After Story.

I watched the first season because it was funny and didn't focus as much on romance as usual school shows. I found the jokes to be very original and funny, even though they can get a bit old after some time, especially Fuko's antics.
Speaking of which, I found Fuko's arc to be a bit too long to my taste: she doesn't evolve at all (even by the last episode of After Story, where she partly participates to ruining the end!). While it was funny, and was a fuel for funny jokes from both Tomoya and Sunohara, a bit too many of the girls were abusing of the "retarded moe" style: Fuko, Kotomi and even in some way Nagisa shared similarities in terms of awkwardness, weirdness and shyness. While Nagisa is definitely the cutest girl to my tastes and while I like cute, quiet and polite girls, it seems clear that Tomoyo and Kyou were much more mature and, consequently interesting female characters.

I also liked Sunohara a lot: again in these kind of school shows, the best pal of the protagonist is often relegated to nothing more than foil for the main character. Sunohara had an actual backstory and the reasons for Tomoya and him being friends are very understandable and realistic: both lost their dreams of pursuing a carreer as sportsmen due to unfortunate circumstances and as a result are lost in life... In most blogs and forum posts, Sunohara is reduced to a joke character but he is actually pretty smart when you look at it closer: he deduces the whole thing behind the Fuko's mystery surprisingly easily and quickly, while he doesn't have half of the elements Tomoya has. Even Kyou in the extra episode of After Story admits he is rather perspicacious and is way smarter than what he looks like, and is also a very caring friend, as most evidenced in the "Tomoyo - Another World" special DVD episode: Sunohara is the only character I actually missed in most of After Story...

All in all, even though the first season had its very-well executed sad moments, I still remember it for the fun part of it. I also liked the almost complete lack of fan-service or ecchi moments who are so common in anime nowadays. The characters were pure and they weren't reduced to sexual objects for once, which made the show distance itself from the "harem" genre even further, allowing the viewer to focus on the story and characters better.

Clannad After Story is much deeper than the first season... by the 9th episode, the serious-business begins with Tomoya and Nagisa living their adult life... I found this whole part very well detailed and surprisingly very credible, so much it reminded me some years ago, beginning to work, and trying to find my place in life and in the society. We see him starting to work, under the guidance of Yoshino, struggling with his right-arm disability, doing mistakes, taking responsibility for them, and getting better. It is very hard in the first months, but he now has something to work for: a family. He gets an opportunity at getting much higher professional responsibilities, while he gets parrallely aware that he will have sooner or later to support a whole family all by himself due to Nagisa's condition, but it is denied to him due to his alcoholic father messing up and going to jail... that's where the sadness orgy begins.

Nagisa's death and the subsequent events were handled perfectly: the direction, music (for having reused the game OST, the soundtrack is awesome), etc couldn't possibly have been handled better. Tomoya lives through hell during 5 years before figuring out his mistakes and deciding to take care of his daughter, Ushio, instead than leaving her to the care of the Furukuwas, oh-so-wonderful, adorable and funny parents-in-law...

The attitude of Tomoya and the Furukawas parents is very dignified, which makes it all the more admirable. We feel the sadness, the pain of the characters, especially Tomoya, but it doesn't turn into an emo-fest and it was very well handled. Instead, he is getting more and more like the father he hated during all these years, which allows him to understand him and forgive him in the end, considering he has been in a very similar situation as Tomoya himself and that it has completely ruined him as well. Again, all of this is very realistic in the way it is written and handled: it even made me think a bit more about my relationships with my own father as well, with whom I do not particularly get along with... for somewhat different reasons though...

Tomoya apologizing to Ushio was one of the best scenes: sad, yet full of hope: just thinking about this scene almost brings me tears, but from what I could read everywhere, I am far from being alone. However, this newfound happiness doesn't last long however, with Ushio suffering the same mysterious disease as her mother.

Ushio's death was again beautifully handled: anyone having to experience this once with the loss of its wife would be destroyed, but Tomoya has to handle it twice. I could just completely sympathize with the character and this, added to the wonderful direction from Kyoto Animation, brought me to tears once again... Actually, Clannad After Story made me cry like a little girl more than once and I think it is the first time I ever actually cried to any anime, show, movie or performance in my whole life, and I tend to like rather sad shows and tortured characters... it brought me melancholy, but tears... never... Clannad is just that moving...

The end was the only actual bad point for me: I was anxious they would use magical and fantasy elements of the show to pull a Deus Ex Machina and get Ushio and Nagisa back to life... While the fantasy elements in Fuko's and Misae & Shima's arc didn't bother me as it added mystery to their story, it greatly bothered me with Tomoya's and Nagisa's since their whole after story was so realistically written and portrayed. After Story spent a great deal of effort making the viewer understand that the carefree school life was over and the weight of the responsibilities on each character. The sadness of the events was also very realistic. I can accept it is a fictional show, I can accept suspension of disbelief, but that's where I still have a problem: after having made the majority of After Story as realistic and mature as it can get, you can't get away by pulling a miracle with something from another world/dimension... that just feels too easy. I wish they would have endorsed the responsibility of the weight of the story they told up to the end. You can't kill characters, especially when they are as innocent as Nagisa and a 5 years old girl impenitently: it has to have a meaning and the meaning is made null and void if you just go back in time and rewrite the story as if nothing happened. I perfectly understand Anno or Tomino aren't the directors of Clannad, but with all the viewers went through already, I think we were all prepared to accept and take it.

Unfortunately, in real life, you don't get to voice a wish to go back in time or resurrect your loved ones: you have to live with that and get over the losses the best you can, if at all. Tomoya was a great character as I said, but I don't see why he would get to have such a privilege while others have to suffer the loss of their loved ones.
Part of the problem with the end comes from the game which KyoAni tried to adapt a bit too zealously. Adapting a visual novel game for television likely isn't an easy job, and they did very well through most of it. I didn't play the game, but according to what I could read, they took some liberties once or twice. They decided to stick to the original media rather faithfully, but at the end, I think they could have taken some liberties again here. The end doesn't make any sense to anime viewers not having played the game, so it feels like the show is cheating with the viewers. This good end in the game is a reward for the player who has unlocked enough achievements/happiness orbs to have his wish granted (and gameplay-wise is just an incentive for him to successfully complete all the routes)... otherwise, he gets the bad end with Ushio's death.
The end of the last episode with Fuko's scene felt really stretched and wasn't funny at all: it didn't add anything to the end, which was supposed to be Nagisa's, Ushio's and Tomoya's one. Matters were already complex and confusing enough to not lose time with a third-rate character who almost had no business or airtime in After Story to begin with. If they wanted me to buy the fantasy elements of Nagisa's and Ushio's ressurection through Tomoya's time travel, they should have spent explaining the matters behind the other world a bit more clearly: the anime writers and directors preferred to hide themselves behind the game, but sorry, I am not going to spend 100+ hours on a visual novel to come to terms with the end they failed to deliver properly. All in all, the only part I liked in this end is that Tomoya, wondering if it wouldn't have been better to not talk to Nagisa on that day, so they would have never met, still chooses to do so, which is the choice Nagisa wanted him to make no matter the hardships they knew would await them.

If we look at both seasons in terms of value, there is Clannad, and the second half of After Story... and to me it is difficult to compare them since the atmosphere and storytelling is so different: that's like comparing different shows. Clannad was funny and amusing, but After Story was easily one of the best shows I have seen in my whole life and definitely the most poignant and the one with the biggest emotional impact... in Anime, like everywhere else, sequels are usually way inferior to their predecessor, but I am glad it wasn't the case with After Story and that they took the courage to tell an adult story... even though I would have liked them to go all the way through and not rely on unbelieveable elements in the end of bring a conclusion to such an otherwise very realistic and modern story.

[mikita]

Glad you realised how awesome Key is Vorenus xD Tho I was arguing with a friend for quite some time over whether Key or Typemoon is better (now I just say they're both equal :P)
I'm still sad that the Tomoyo route isn't canon.. I always liked that route best
*goes back to Tomoyo After*

[Leo_Otaku]

Key owns Typemoon >.> Typemoon needs to actually make something it has been 5 years.

[Tak]

Key owns Typemoon >.> Typemoon needs to actually make something it has been 5 years.

Apples & oranges my friend... apples & oranges...

- Tak

[dgreater1]

Apples & oranges my friend... apples & oranges...

- Tak

That's not really the case. He's probably talking about which company can attract more fans. So if you use something like apple and orange, it would be like this:

What Fruit do you like==>Apple (Key) or Orange (Type-Moon)

Either way, it depends.

As for me, I would label Key as Bananas (my favorite fruit) for their heartwrenching/warming stories then Mango for [Type-Moon and ZUN/Shanghai Alice] for their weird power level :heh:

[Tak]

That's not really the case. He's probably talking about which company can attract more fans. So if you use something like apple and orange, it would be like this:

What Fruit do you like==>Apple (Key) or Orange (Type-Moon)

Either way, it depends.

Sorry, but does that not sound a bit redundant to you?

Moreover, their ability to attract fans is irrelevant to my own feelings for both companies. I like both companies, they are both different in their own attractiveness. I don't think they can be directly compared.

- Tak

[dgreater1]

Sorry, but does that not sound a bit redundant to you?

- Tak

No it doesn't because stating which of the two company you like is different from comparing the two companies that's why "What Fruit do you like." The answer depends either way by opinions supported by statistics which doesn't matter anymore since it's all about numbers again :heh:

[DeX-kun]

No it doesn't because stating which of the two company you like is different from comparing the two companies that's why "What Fruit do you like." The answer depends either way by opinions supported by statistics which doesn't matter anymore since it's all about numbers again :heh:

You're arguing semantics here. You're not gonna get anywhere with this. -_-

He was simply stating his opinion, not looking to discuss the differences between the companies.

[Tak]

No it doesn't because stating which of the two company you like is different from comparing the two companies that's why "What Fruit do you like." The answer depends either way by opinions supported by statistics which doesn't matter anymore since it's all about numbers again :heh:

Otaku was complaining at the lack of production on the side of Typemoon. I did not get the jest that he was arguing about numbers or statistics or even comparing both. For he only stated:

Key owns Typemoon >.> Typemoon needs to actually make something it has been 5 years.

If he was, he should be more clear, because that is not how I took it.

To me, they are different fruits and I like both of them. I don't know why you are arguing about statistics, nor do I understand your point. But whatever it is, I must apologize beforehand for expressing a total lack of anxiety on my part, and this trend will likely continue.

- Tak

[dgreater1]

Otaku was complaining at the lack of production on the side of Typemoon. I did not get the jest that he was arguing about numbers or statistics or even comparing both. For he only stated:

Key owns Typemoon >.> Typemoon needs to actually make something it has been 5 years.

If he was, he should be more clear, because that is not how I took it.

To me, they are different fruits and I like both of them. I don't know why you are arguing about statistics, nor do I understand your point. But whatever it is, I must apologize beforehand for expressing a total lack of anxiety on my part, and this trend will likely continue.

- Tak
Actually, the only thing he stated the registered to me was:

Key owns Typemoon >.> Typemoon needs to actually make something it has been 5 years.

Which I deduced to "I like Key more than Typemoon", we both agree that they are different fruits, different company under the same category. But anyway, I'm not really arguing about statistics but just stating that Leo likes Key more than Typemoon and adding that Typemoon should get their butts moving again. I should also apologize and blame myself and the alcohol for replying when you were just giving your opinion that the two are different companies when you said "Apples & oranges my friend... apples & oranges..." :heh:

I actually went :confused: and wondered why the hell did I reply to those trivial things. I guess drunks really like to argue about small things :heh:

[Leo_Otaku]

LOL I'm actually female, but that is besides the point...my name is misleading and so forth

It is true they do both make very different games but if you said to me who do you think the best visual novel company is? I would say KEY. But that is just my opinion they are just my favorite on many levels.

Their genres differ greatly as well Type-Moon is working on a project now.

I just found Type-moon to be milking their Fate franchise so badly this past five years. But I know that is how they market and sell their products. It just seemed like they were getting everything worth of the franchise before they get out their new game.

But this is a completely different debate and topic ^-^"

[Tak]

Speaking of milking... Typemoon did give us great side materials.

Games such as Melty Blood, Crucial Fatal Fake... etc.

Of course, let us not forget Eternal Fighter Zero, Tomoyo Fighter: Its an Exciting Life :D

- Tak

[IcExAlcHeMy]

i'm not going to go into writing a long post about my likes and dislikes for clannad. i finished watching it last night and it definitely makes it into one of my top anime lists of "must sees".

from nagisa's death to ushio's death to tomoya thinking how much it would be great for his wife to be alive to see their daughter growing up touched my heart and at times made me cry. at first, i thought it was really fucked up they made both of them die leaving tomoya with nothing. then comes episode 22 which did not connect the dots for me. it wasn't until then when i read up more on the ending that i got it. the studio did a terrific job right up until the ending which made first time viewers go "ok WTF just happened". that was a failure on their part.

overall impression of Clannad is a 9/10 just because there are rarely any animes that will make me cry with a story plot that isn't just about romance, but something much more than that.

P.S. Ushio running in the field of flowers in the end made me realize that was from the S1 OP. i never thought that would be a huge foreshadow for the storyline >.> it blew my mind away.

[Whitemoon648]

OMG this series made me CRY SOOOO MUCH. and it also made me LAAAAAUGH SOOOO MUCH. Also This series made me LAAAAAUGHT AND CRY at the same time TOOOOO MUCH.




I was like at episode 13ish, then i realized there were like 2 extras. So i thought nothing would happen to Nagisa and she will deliver with no problem. Well because we have 2 extra episodes.

Then at episode 16 Nagisa died. I was like, " Obviously she is going to wake up in episode 17". Then episode 16 happen.

Episode 17- Denial. I thought, she is probably in the hospital. Like you know those episodes that people are in hospital and wake up at the end for happy ending. It did not happen.

Episode 18- OMG. Nagisa really died. I was so depressed. I might have been more depressed at than Tomoya :uhoh:.



Episode 19- AHHH CRIIIIED so much :upset:. Didn't Nagisa say that we should go make up with Tomoya's dad together? He finally did it but Nagisa is not there :upset:. Depressed once more.Well at least Ushio is a cute character and funny. Good comedy and we get to see some parental love from Tomoya. I can cope with the fact Nagisa is gone. Still a very touching episode. Now i saw that light thing that went inside Tomoya. So i thought there will be meaning to it( THIS IS JUST A DREAM. PLEASE WAKE UP. OR A MIRACLE). First time ever that i had hope for a Miracle to happen and for such a thing to be a dream in any anime. For the first time i wanted an anime to be NOT realistic and have one of those mystical things to it. I was so desperate, i can not believe that i ever got that kind of feeling from an anime. POOR TOMOYA and NO NAGISA.


-Episode 20- Face the reality. Nagisa is dead. But still USHIO IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CUTE :hyper-^v^: ( Fuko too :D). I guess it is ok. Maybe this will make this anime great because it has a more realistic view to it. Whaaat? Ushio is sick??? Instantly thought She will be saved by Nagisa and that light thing ( in episode 19) was basically Nagisa's feelings in Tomoya ( THIS IS ALL A DREAM PLEASE PLEASE A MIRACLE. OR MAKE IT A DREAM. PLEASE PLEASE).

-Episode 21. Cried a lot. At this point i seriously thought Nagisa is dead. She will save Ushio who is sick. I really thought it that way. In a way that made me sad. I wanted Nagisa to be back too. A miracle or a dream . PLEEEEEEASE MAKE IT HAPPEN LIKE THAT. Then the last scene happen and i think Ushio will be saved next episode.

-Episode 22. Words can not describe this episode. I cried the whole episode ( with laughter). For the first time after a long time, cries of joy. NAGISA IS BACK NAGISA IS BACK, IT WAS ALL A DREAM AFTER ALL, A MIRACLE HAPPENED :T_T: :kisskiss: :hyper-^v^: :smile: . I was so happy and cried the whole episode and laughed the whole episode.



Finally an anime that defeated my all time favorite GTO. I liked Clannad slightly better than Code geass ( and I liked CODE GEASS A LOT.









Again my last thought, i have never ever wanted an anime to end like a miracle or a dream that one has to wake up from. This is the first time ever that i did not want the anime look realistic and i wanted a Miracle to happen. The best anime ever.



Just wanted to share how i felt about it.

[Justin Kim]

Kind of sad that the series ended. Wanted to see more of the family's relationship with the other side-characters, and little Ushio-chan growing up in high school with her family.

[Archon_Wing]

I'm a pretty cynical viewer. I honestly find much tragedy in anime and many other forms of media to be hilarious, and usually don't care because usually the events are predictable, the writing is poor, or I didn't even like the characters. Much of it has been overdone, and deux ex machina... just gives me more of a reason not to care.

I didn't think much of this show very much at first. It seemed to be a harem/romance/comedy anime, a genre which I simply dislike. Having female characters orbit around a single incompetent lead isn't very exciting. Not to mention the tons of visual novel adaptations that seemed to be flying around. "This is just a cleaned up porn, isn't it?" I thought.

That being said, I had liked Air, another key/kyoani production. It didn't feel like a harem show, despite its origin. While it was legitimately a sad story, it was a little forced. I thought they had a tendency to introduce annoying characters and then make them suffer to make you feel bad. I always thought that was a cheap shot.

Anyhow, I recently decide to give another shot, and I must say this is a fine work. It almost feels like they took what they have learned from the previous productions and applied it here. Clannad is truly the product of the long journey up the hill. The story to Clannad is pretty simple, but it also shows how you don't need massive special effects, tons of angsty pseudo-philosophical ranting, or other pretentious symbolism to make something work. The amazing visuals do help though. This show wins through solid story telling. I regret not following this series as it came out.

The characters are the strongest part of the story, naturally, since Clannad is about people. The way people interact slowly but surely evolves over the course of the story. While the situations they may be in may not be normal, but their reactions are. You do get this feeling that Tomoya does care deeply about the people he helps, and he's not doing it out of some vague sense of goodness or a chance to get into their pants (skirts). That's actually quite unique. ;) The main characters' backgrounds are gone over quite well, and you learn more about why they behave the way they do. Nagisa at first seems like a helpless annoying shy girl, but she actually is one of the most determined characters in the series and ends up supporting Tomoya emotionally as he had done before. Sunohara at first seems like he's a complete failure, but he's really just an idiot with a big heart and truly earned respect in his arc with Mei. Kotomi's airheadedness hides her regrets and her genius. And of course, Akio and Sanae, two nuts who turn out to be the world's best parents. Ushio must be like the only small child character that is not annoying. ;) I could go in depth about each individual character, but I'll save it for elsewhere.

That being said, it was kind of sad that Kyou and Ryou didn't really have that kind of development. I especially pity poor Ryou, because she never stood a chance (You could tell just because of the OP) I'd also would have liked most of the characters to have appeared a bit more in After Story, or at least give us some more notice on what they are doing. It'd be nice to have them all meet up one more time or something on screen.

But anyhow, characters can break or make an anime for me. I can accept many stupid plots if the characters are worth it. Generally, my like for an anime is related to the amount of recurring characters I want to kill. This series has none.

One thing interesting about this series is that the episodes are very packed with interesting things. What I mean is that they would often speed past tedious things that we don't need to see. Like, Tomoya is pulling weeds. Ok once we get the idea, we move on instead of devoting an entire episode to it and having muse about things that he's already gone over many times just to drag on the episode. Because of this, I can stay awake as usually something notable is happening.

But, I was a bit put off by the pacing at the midway point of AS as I simply just got hit by a ton of events. That weakened the emotional development for me a little. It didn't really hit me til Tomoya was telling Ushio about her mother for the first time. Another general complaint would be that many things seemed so convenient. People seem to be always walking around the right places when you need to talk to them. ;)

Another unique thing about this anime is that we get to see what Tomoya and Nagisa's romance develops into. Often times, a show will take the cowardly way out, and simply dodge the issue, to not dash the hopes of fans of the other female leads. That usually just makes the guy seem like an inconsiderate prick. That being said, episode of 18 in season 1 is pretty brutal still, but hey, it's still better than limbo. It is a bit annoying that the other female leads are left hanging; we get nothing. Surely there must have been other dudes in the years that pass, but there's not even a mention. :( Yes, there are those alternate world OVAs. It's nice to give what ifs but I surely think we should get to know what happens to Tomoyo in this world, which is the one we should be caring about anyways. [/fanboy]

The ending was a bit of a cop out, I will admit. Reset buttons are quite annoying but I just let them go for this one. At least the trippy other world scenes started to make a little sense. I think someone I know put it best " Realistic bad endings? Why do we need that? You can find those all around you in real life anyways" So this little bit of escapism, I will just take. It's not like DBZ where it happens all the time. This is a world where cats can turn into boys, and comatose girls can project themselves. This isn't that big of a stretch, imo. In any case the scene when "Small Palms" plays is simply amazing.

It seems kind of odd to give 10 for something I don't consider perfect, but to me ratings are relative and perfection is impossible. 10 usually means that's pretty much as close to you can get, and I'd probaly only consider 10s for 2-3 other series. In any case, predictable, contrived, or not, Clannad avoids all pretenses and presents a honest story with real emotion, something I find very rare. Despite the bumps on the way to the end, Key and Kyoani just simply overdid themselves for this one. It is rare to see an anime with so much dedication to detail and polish. It seemed like there was a lot of love that went into this series-- after all, how can you expect others to appreciate your creation if you don't have respect for it either? For me this will be a classic series.

[kim8268]

For me I dont like to write a long chuchuekbu for clannad, Simple way of thinking Clannad is This year no maybe until 2010 there wont be another series like this revolutionary for the genre Love Drama Comedy and I think that clannad will rank top most in the anime world In its sector(Genre) So Key Creat another series in this genre and kyoani Creat another Top class Love Drama Comedy And amaze us once again

[Soelke]

Being new here, I haven't been able to share my opinions on previous episodes, but...Anyway, this is gonna be long. I put spoiler tags around the character section, though, so that should be okay...

I found Clannad while searching for songs sung by Hatsune Miku. There was, of course, a video with her singing Mag Mell. I fell in love with the song immediately, and, wanting to learn more, looked up the only name I could remember from that song (Nagisa's name). As always, I went and spoiled the series for myself, but truthfully, I never actually read the entire thing. Then, I went on to watch the first episode. Thus began the most wonderful anime experiance I've ever had. I've probably cried more during Clannad than any other anime.

There are characters that I particularly noticed throughout the series...

Sunohara is the first I'd like to mention. Oh, how boring Clannad would be without Sunohara. I was watching Kanon 2006 in cunjunction with Clannad, so of course I saw Kitamura (or whatever his name was) completely failing to get anyone to as much as notice him. He was similar to Sunohara, being the protagonist's friend and usually the butt of all jokes. Sunohara, however, had much more development, and I could actually see possible pairings with him and some of the heroines (as well as Yukine). To top it off, whenever he's on the scene it's bound to be funny (unless it's the climax of his story arc, then it's intense). Great character..

Nagisa is the second. Again, I haven't seen many other "harems", so I wasn't to familiar with the "ill girl" stereotype. Despite this, I was still pleasantly surprised to see Nagisa so strong in the beginning of the series, taking matters into her own hands once Tomoya showed up and took him with her to into all sorts of situations (I mean, she was looking for Theater Club members and Tomoya remembered Fuuko, so...). Despite being physically weak, she is one of the strongest girls in the series. She is very bold, too. She went on to deliver Ushio, despite the warnings that it would be dangerous for her.

Then, there is Tomoya. I don't think I've ever seen so much development in one character. At the beginning, he was aloof and didn't really care much for anything. His only friend was Sunohara, possibly. The moment he met Nagisa, he started to get his act together and started to take a better look at life and the values of family, blah blah...As he meets the other heroines, he opens up more, and consequently gets more friends. With the loss of Nagisa in After Story, he takes a nasty fall mentally, but Ushio brings him out of it and he gets his act together. In the end, he is no longer closed off from the world but a man who has opened his eyes to the world around him.

Ushio. I have not seen to many five-year olds, but...Ushio is so real. The little gestures, her voice (kudos to her seiyuu), the way she moves, it's all so appropriate for a girl her age. As a five-year old, she has a somewhat limited understanding of her situation: why her father isn't around to take care of her, the nitty gritty of how her mother died, why she lives with her grandparents, etc...When she meets Tomoya for the first time since her birth, she does not run to him to give him a big bear hug. She's a little shy at first, since she doesn't know him. Eventually, however, she comes to terms with him in possibly one of the most heartwarming scenes in anime.

Annnd, ah, Fuuko, how we love you. I hadn't formulated a solid opinion on my favorite Clannad character just from seeing the opening sung by Miku, but man did I get an opinion as I watched the series. Fuuko is quite the strange character. It's kind of difficult to put her in a single category, but "cute" definately qualifies (I love cute things). Again, I was watching Kanon 2006, so I was trying to compare Clannad and Kanon heroines. In the end, I put her with Ayu (Ayu ftw!) because their situations are sort of sort of similar, and they're both short. And yet, you can't really compare her to anyone. Her persona is childish, and immature--which has grated people's nerves, I've noticed--but underneath that is pure determination (and win). With the situation she was in in season 1, she probably knew that it was hopeless for her. Even then, she went on handing out starfish (It's thanks to Clannad starfish are one of my favorite animals now). She made a lot of days for me, especially her reappearance in After Story. There are a lot of theories concerning Fuuko and the Illusionary World, and they all seem to make perfect sense. Overall, she is definately my favorite character.

I talked to much about the characters...In any case...The music was just beautiful, but the ending didn't match the episode sometimes in After Story *coughAfterStory16and21cough* Other than that, it was really catchy. I love the first ending. Annnd...The animation. That was the most beautiful animation in an anime I've ever seen. Everything is just so...detailed. The way the hair flows in the wind, the expressions, tears, the light playing on Nagisa's and Tomoya's hair as they sat underneath that tree in the courtyard...Absolutely beautiful. The way they did the Illusionary World, you'd think it was based off a real place, too. It wasn't just an ever-going plain; it expanded into a mountain region, as well. Beautiful.

And then, the ending of the series. Before Tomoya gets his magic reset button and saves his wife and kid, he must first go and collect the last light orbs. I love how Key didn't just hand him his happy ending (however cruel that may sound). He went the whole mile and finally came to terms with Nagisa's death, facing the fact that he has a daughter who, for five years, he has completely neglected, leaving her with her grandparents. Finally, there's the reset button and Tomoya's journey is finally over. He has saved the future (more weird time-loopy stuff) and at the same time learned a valuable lesson about the significance of family. I was very satisfied with the series, and I hope to see more from KyoAni. Yeah...I wish I could've done a better post, but when I finally get to express my opinion I'm speechless. Everyone takes the words right out of my mouth xP

[428]

As many people around me know, when I rate a series, I rate with different barometers.

This is a VN adaptation, so I'll accordingly use the Dramatic barometer.

Animation Quality: 10
Kyoani win. There's nothing else I'd say.

Voice Actors: 9
Everyone did well, except Sunohara. I'll let it slide.

Script: 9
Editing: 9
Adaptation: 9
Again, Kyoani win.

Emotional Involvement: 9
Not as much as Myself; Yourself, or ef. But still.

Total: 9.2

Could have done better, if not for the fact that the first half of AS was too dragged out.

[Wampbit]

Hmm, Clannad almost earned itself a perfect 10, but failed at the last hurdle. When I first saw it I didn't think much too it, the first few episodes I thought were fun, but standard melo-drama, not very original and not getting anywhere. I maintained this feeling all the way through both seasons, however it was simply done so well, every character was given unique life due to the way they could almost be real - I found you could associate with them, although at first seeming very shallow their characters gained depth, on occasion in very stereotypical manners, but none the less depth.

The story actually tugged on the heart strings which is quite an achievement for any sort of media, and the way everything was built up so perfectly, and at a pace that seemed sensible meant the major events actually hit you hard.

The problem: Episode 22 of ~Afterstory~, I couldn't stand it, one of the reasons I loved Clannad was due to it simply giving you the facts, things generally ended up happy, but it took toil and hardship, it took friends and help from reality. The fact that in 22 they reversed it, with slight meaning in the first 10 minutes or so, post that pretty much for the sake of a happy ending destroyed the whole thing for me. I really think 21 is a better place to end ~Afterstory~ and personally shall be denying the existence of 22.

[Tak]

The coming of episode 22 was foreshadowed throughout the entire first and second season. Certainly the illusion world was not there for nothing. It had a purpose, and that Clannad touched base with the supernatural throughout its entirety. You should have been expecting this, and certainly not because of a slight meaning in the first 10 minutes or so.

By denying episode 22, you are pretty much also denying the theme focus of this entire series.

Because what do we get in 21? The entire family of Okazaki dies, including Tomoya. There is no hope, the end.

- Tak

[Ithekro]

Also Episode 24 proves that the point of 16-21 still has meaning to Tomoya even with episode 22's exisitance. He remembers those events and they do effect him.

[DeX-kun]

Also Episode 24 proves that the point of 16-21 still has meaning to Tomoya even with episode 22's exisitance. He remembers those events and they do effect him.

Just to add to this, we can say that Tomoya enjoys his life so much more and doesn't take anything for granted considering everything that happened to him prior to episode 22.

[Wampbit]

I agree with what is said above however what you seem to take for granted is that we want Tomoya to have a happy life - I realise it was foreshadowed and frankly expected something of the sort, however I just can't find it fitting for Clannad, for any other anime I wouldn't mind that much, but clannad is built around tragedy, and hopelessness - there is always a happy ending however such a large change doesn't really fit in with the atmosphere.
Also I simply liked the end of ep21 more, it had much more impact, offered closure, and didn't go back and make ep16-21 feel like nothing - I know he remembers them, that's made obvious in ep 22 itself, however from an empathetic point of view I can't see it effecting him in a way other than "Wow, I'm a damn lucky guy."
I admit that my words above were a bit harsh (and not fully thought out), ep 22 was not awful, in fact it was a perfectly good ending, but Clannad was not your perfectly good series, it was better than that - such a standard and relatively cliche ending didn't fit such a well made series.

Happy endings aren't always the best - I would have rather had hopelessness than an ending that, although happy, felt so 'average'.

[Tak]

I agree with what is said above however what you seem to take for granted is that we want Tomoya to have a happy life - I realise it was foreshadowed and frankly expected something of the sort, however I just can't find it fitting for Clannad, for any other anime I wouldn't mind that much, but clannad is built around tragedy, and hopelessness

And where did you get this idea?

Where did you get the notion that Clannad was a catalog of hopelessness and tragedy? Clannad had never been centered around hopelessness or tragedy. In fact, it is built around a concept completely opposite of your claims.

Although at this point its quite obvious that you have never played the game, this anime nonetheless is very faithful in regards to its adaption from the source material.

And the objective of the game? Seek happiness for every major character you encounter.

- Tak

[Archon_Wing]

But should the solution to the tragedy of 16-21 be undone so simply? What makes Tomoya and his family in particular deserve a second chance over anyone else? Why doesn't anyone else in the cast get a second chance? Just because we feel for them? I don't think that makes them exceptional enough. Just because the plot takes interest in you means you deserve a miracle.

And the truth is, the anime should be able to deliver the message through from the game. If it wasn't clear enough to an anime only viewer, then something went wrong somewhere.

I will answer my own questions soon, but I'd like to see what other people think.

[Tak]

But should the solution to the tragedy of 16-21 be undone so simply? What makes Tomoya and his family in particular deserve a second chance over anyone else? Why doesn't anyone else in the cast get a second chance? Just because we feel for them? I don't think that makes them exceptional enough. Just because the plot takes interest in you means you deserve a miracle.

Actually, because of Tomoya, most of the major casts received a second chance.

- Tak

[Archon_Wing]

Well ok but they did not get their tragedies undone, such as Kotomi's parents. They did find peace with their problems but they still have to continue with it. I suppose I will restate the question.

"Why do Tomoya and Co deserve miracles, other than because they are important characters to the story?" Is working for happiness in and of itself deserving of happiness?

[Tak]

"Why do Tomoya and Co deserve miracles, other than because they are important characters to the story?" Is working for happiness in and of itself deserving of happiness?

Right back at you, does that mean their entire family has to die in order to prove your point?

- Tak

[Archon_Wing]

Right back at you, does that mean their entire family has to die in order to prove your point?

- Tak

Nope, that doesn't have to be.

[Haak]

Right back at you, does that mean their entire family has to die in order to prove your point?

- Tak

Well it would send out a powerful message about asking for miracles. :heh:

[Tak]

Well it would send out a powerful message about asking for miracles. :heh:

And defeat the purpose of this show entirely, wouldn't it?

Now, if you really want something unbelievably depressing, even worse than some of the segments in Clannad, I highly recommend Sky Crawlers.

By the end, you will think Romeo & Juliet had a happy ending that, and suddenly the grim future of Warhammer 40K would look bright and cheerful.

- Tak

[Haak]

And defeat the purpose of this show entirely, wouldn't it?

Now, if you really want something unbelievably depressing, even worse than some of the segments in Clannad, I highly recommend Sky Crawlers.

By the end, you will think Romeo & Juliet had a happy ending that, and suddenly the grim future of Warhammer 40K would look bright and cheerful.

- Tak

So what was the purpose of the the show? If the purpose of the show is defeated by realism then that's kind of a weak purpose isn't it?

[Tak]

So what was the purpose of the the show? If the purpose of the show is defeated by realism then that's kind of a weak purpose isn't it?

Buddy, this is anime, fiction, its not meant to be real. I watch this to feel good. If I want to watch entire family getting slaughtered, dying of famine, warfare, and other troubles, there is CNN.

There is nothing difficult to understand about this show. It had taken painstaking steps in explaining the process through the illusion world. I highly doubt that you do not understand, more like some of you pretend not to buy into the idea.

This anime focuses on family, how they cope with difficulties, in addition to a dose of love, hope & miracles for good measure.

That was the theme of the game, you know.

- Tak

[dgreater1]

But should the solution to the tragedy of 16-21 be undone so simply? What makes Tomoya and his family in particular deserve a second chance over anyone else? Why doesn't anyone else in the cast get a second chance? Just because we feel for them? I don't think that makes them exceptional enough. Just because the plot takes interest in you means you deserve a miracle.

And the truth is, the anime should be able to deliver the message through from the game. If it wasn't clear enough to an anime only viewer, then something went wrong somewhere.

I will answer my own questions soon, but I'd like to see what other people think.

They didn't get a second chance. Nothing was undone. The thing that has happened already happened. The dead didn't comeback to life. I'll give you another idea about it that is not about multi-universes because a lot seems to be misunderstanding its concept.

There are two or more twins, the other two or more twins was taken to somewhere really far not knowing that they had twins. We as a viewer, watched the first twins' lives not knowing that there were other twins because it concentrated too much on the first twin. After watching their growth, we had an unfortunate accident. We ended up with a really tragic end and grieve for them. We didn't realize that there were twins of them until someone steps in saying

"I feel sorry for them... I hope their twins don't end up with the same fate as them." A guy comments as he grieves as well.
"What...?" The other watcher was confused at what he said and looks sadly.
"Have you forgotten that they have twins, and believe it or not, they were married to the same twins as well."

The emotion is confusing, right? But whichever it is, THEY ARE DIFFERENT PEOPLE. The purpose of the ones who met their ends wasn't in vain. Anyway, as for me, I didn't see any miracles other than the lights flowing out of the town as Ushio was safely delivered and of course, Fuuko.

If it wasn't clear enough to an anime only viewer, then something went wrong somewhere.

You're not watching a simple anime. This anime followed the path and gave enough hints and believe it or not, even GAMERS had hard time figuring out what the hell really happened in the GAME's True end. We are the ones going to interpret the ending with the use of the small hints given to us and not the producers answering the all question we have. :heh:

[Tak]

This is exactly why plot devices are made aren't they? You've only proved my point. ;)

Uh, proved what? We were never talking about plot devices until you dictated that point just now. That being the case, I don't think I ever disagreed about certain elements of the show being plot devices, so I have no idea why the hell you are arguing with me nor do I see how that should interfere with the overall theme of the story, which was my point.

- Tak

[Haak]

Okay hold on everyones replying at a rapid rate and it's fucking up everything. Just bear with me coz I'm little confused now.

[Tak]

Just bear with me coz I'm little confused now.

You are also young, that happens.

- Tak

[dgreater1]

Just bear with me coz I'm little confused now.

Don't mind me. I just like messing around people's head with analogies but I hope you get the idea of it because a lot seems to be complaining about reset, miracles purposes, theme, confusing, etc. etc.

The only thing I can say is, this isn't your average anime that you'll just watch and forget. Imagine crosswords puzzle where you connect words together :heh:

[Haak]

Buddy, this is anime, fiction, its not meant to be real. I watch this to feel good. If I want to watch entire family getting slaughtered, dying of famine, warfare, and other troubles, there is CNN.

So you're telling me that Slice of Life anime is not meant to be realistic?


There is nothing difficult to understand about this show. It had taken painstaking steps in explaining the process through the illusion world. I highly doubt that you do not understand, more like some of you pretend not to buy into the idea.

Exactly I don't buy in to the idea. That was my point. I'm sure I understand it but I find that in a lot of arguments between people it's always because of some misunderstanding, so just for for clarifications I'd like you to explain the whole purpose of the illusionary world and how it ties in with the theme of the show.


This anime focuses on family, how they cope with difficulties, in addition to a dose of love, hope & miracles for good measure.

Yes I know. That's why I'm not that happy with the ending. And i'm aware that it was the theme of the game yes.

[Proto]

So you're telling me that Slice of Life anime is not meant to be realistic?

Depends on what aspect it is focusing in (there is Someday Dreamers for example) but CLANNAD is not slice of life by any stretch of the imagination :heh:

[Haak]

Depends on what aspect it is focusing in (there is Someday Dreamers for example) but CLANNAD is not slice of life by any stretch of the imagination :heh:

Okay, I'm at lost for words here because I can't see how it CAN'T be a Slice of Life anime so I'm guessing we have vastly different definitions of slice of life. To be fair I haven't seen that many Slice of Life animes so I may be wrong here but I thought episodes 9 to 20 were a good example of Slice of Life.

[DeX-kun]

So you're telling me that Slice of Life anime is not meant to be realistic?

Ok, I hope you know that "Slice of Life" isn't the only genre it's labeled as, right?

Exactly I don't buy in to the idea. That was my point. I'm sure I understand it but I find that in a lot of arguments between people it's always because of some misunderstanding, so just for for clarifications I'd like you to explain the whole purpose of the illusionary world and how it ties in with the theme of the show.

/facepalm

Ok, it's obvious that arguments occur because people have misunderstandings, that's why we argue, to make everything clear through reasoning and facts but that's besides the point here.

If you didn't understand the Illusionary world, then you didn't completely grasp the theme of the show. The purpose of the illusionary world (I'll use IW from now on to make things short) is to slowly introduce us to the fantasy elements of the show in which you're confused about. The IW is also there to further exemplify the meaning of the light orbs and such. If you pay attention to Kotomi's arc in season 1 of Clannad, that does a pretty good job at explaining how the IW exists in the first place so it's not like they completely ignored the existence of the IW.

The IW ties in with the theme simply by existing. Without the IW, we wouldn't have gotten the existence of alternate universes and the importance of family. After Nagisa's death, Tomoya completely ignored his daughter and took for granted that she was healthy and alive and when he finally realized that he had a daughter, she dies and then Tomoya collapses and dies as well (I think this ending would have pissed more people off then the current ending.) Tomoya's desire to save Ushio was so strong that his wish came true to put it simply. And that's where we get the world where Nagisa and Ushio live.

Okay, I'm at lost for words here because I can't see how it CAN'T be a Slice of Life anime so I'm guessing we have vastly different definitions of slice of life. To be fair I haven't seen that many Slice of Life animes so I may be wrong here but I thought episodes 9 to 20 were a good example of Slice of Life.

Ok, nobody here said that this anime wasn't slice of life. The concept isn't that difficult to grasp. Like I said before, this anime isn't isolated to being only slice of life, it's a mixture of genres. (e.g. - Slice of Life, Romance, Fantasy, Comedy, School Life, etc.)

[Haak]

Ok, I hope you know that "Slice of Life" isn't the only genre it's labeled as, right?

Okay, but I've always thought that the fantasy part was a sort of way to enhance the slice of life genre, you know to, like, help Tomoya and Nagisa develop. Act as a sort of thought experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_experiment).


/facepalm

Ok, it's obvious that arguments occur because people have misunderstandings, that's why we argue, to make everything clear through reasoning and facts but that's besides the point here.

I know that, but it could've been through some other misunderstanding. I never said I didn't understand the illusionary world. That was the other guy that brought it up and i figured perhaps that may be why we're arguing. FWI, the only reason I'm actually arguing is because a lot people here say that those people that didn't like the ending didn't understand the theme so I want to understand and make sure I'm not wrong, and if I am wrong then know why, because I love After Story and want to marvel at it's brilliance.


If you didn't understand the Illusionary world, then you didn't completely grasp the theme of the show. The purpose of the illusionary world (I'll use IW from now on to make things short) is to slowly introduce us to the fantasy elements of the show in which you're confused about. The IW is also there to further exemplify the meaning of the light orbs and such. If you pay attention to Kotomi's arc in season 1 of Clannad, that does a pretty good job at explaining how the IW exists in the first place so it's not like they completely ignored the existence of the IW

The IW ties in with the theme simply by existing. Without the IW, we wouldn't have gotten the existence of alternate universes and the importance of family. After Nagisa's death, Tomoya completely ignored his daughter and took for granted that she was healthy and alive and when he finally realized that he had a daughter, she dies and then Tomoya collapses and dies as well (I think this ending would have pissed more people off then the current ending.) Tomoya's desire to save Ushio was so strong that his wish came true to put it simply. And that's where we get the world where Nagisa and Ushio live.

Okay, this I understand. Be more specific about the miracle. In what way does the miracle allow development to occur? In what way does it add to the plot besides resolving it? What does it teach us? How did the miracle allow Tomoya or Nagisa develop that couldn't have happened if it had been any other way?


Ok, nobody here said that this anime wasn't slice of life. The concept isn't that difficult to grasp. Like I said before, this anime isn't isolated to being only slice of life, it's a mixture of genres. (e.g. - Slice of Life, Romance, Fantasy, Comedy, School Life, etc.)

Oi! Proto said it was "not a slice of life by any strech of the imagination". That's what she said damn it.

Btw, do you know how to make animated avatars?

[DeX-kun]

Okay, but I've always thought that the fantasy part was a sort of way to enhance the slice of life genre, you know to, like, help Tomoya and Nagisa develop. Act as a sort of thought experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_experiment).

You're making things more difficult for yourself here. Slice of Life is exactly what the name implies, elements in the plot that shows us the everyday life. Fantasy is fictional and just stuff that doesn't happen in real life (e.g. - Miracles, IW, etc.) I can't see how Fantasy enhances Slice of Life since they completely contradict each other. Still, let's not continue this part of the discussion because we don't control the genres of the show. So let's focus on the more significant aspects, shall we?

Okay, this I understand. Be more specific about the miracle. In what way does the miracle allow development to occur? In what way does it add to the plot besides resolving it? What does it teach us? How did the miracle allow Tomoya or Nagisa develop that couldn't have happened if it had been any other way?

/facepalm

I'm sorry but could you re-read my post again because the answers to your questions are right there. I'll answer all your questions with one response again but before I do, let's clarify something here. Nagisa's development halted in episode 16 when she died so we can't really say that she had development after the miracle considering she's the reason that there needed to be one.

Again, Tomoya ignored his daughter for 4 of 5 years and turned to smoking, drinking and gambling during that time. He didn't realize that Nagisa wasn't the only person in his family. There was Ushio who needed his guidance and love. The whole point of the miracle was to teach Tomoya what it takes to be a father and at the same time to forgive his own father for the mistakes he made because Tomoya himself couldn't do any better when placed in the same position as his father. If there were no miracle, then we would not have gotten any development considering Tomoya just collapsed alongside his daughter in the snow and died. Even this "miracle" coincides with the family theme.

Oi! Proto said it was "not a slice of life by any strech of the imagination". That's what she said damn it.

Btw, do you know how to make animated avatars?

I didn't actually read Proto's post. I'm not exactly sure what Proto meant but in my opinion, it does contain Slice of Life elements but it's definitely not the only genre within this series.

No, I actually don't make avatars or sigs, but there is a very useful thread in this sub-forum where you can request an avatar or request so you should use that if you don't know someone that can make you one.

[Proto]

I didn't actually read Proto's post. I'm not exactly sure what Proto meant but in my opinion, it does contain Slice of Life elements but it's definitely not the only genre within this series.


Not even the main one or even a secondary one I'd say. CLANNAD is mainly romance, and maybe a mixture of genres there, but at least under the classical definition of SOL (where Lucky Star and friends wouldn't be SOL either) CLANNAD is wa----ay to character focused to be considered slice of life. This is all about character centric drama after all, with some plot here and there.


Oi! Proto said it was "not a slice of life by any strech of the imagination". That's what she said damn it.

She? I thought the only girly part about me was my avatar :heh:

[Archon_Wing]

What did they describe the imaginary world as? A lonely place where nothing ever changes-- a place of stagnation.

Now compare this with Tomoya's monologue in the very beginning of the series. He and Nagisa were pretty aimless and detached. As the series progressed, they began to move further and further away from this. Things went into motion. People began to find their goals and each other. And eventually, we see the imaginary world finally collapse at the end.

Basically:
Main world in Clannad= change and movement; life
Imaginary World= desolate and stagnant; death.

I have no idea why I decided to say all this. But that's what I think of the importance of the IW. I've only watched the show.

As for my previous comment on whether Tomoya deserves a miracle or not over anyone else. I could say no. But it doesn't matter. He should be damned thankful for it. Will he learn to appreciate it? Well, all signs point to yes since he seems to remember.

[Haak]

You're making things more difficult for yourself here. Slice of Life is exactly what the name implies, elements in the plot that shows us the everyday life. Fantasy is fictional and just stuff that doesn't happen in real life (e.g. - Miracles, IW, etc.) I can't see how Fantasy enhances Slice of Life since they completely contradict each other. Still, let's not continue this part of the discussion because we don't control the genres of the show. So let's focus on the more significant aspects, shall we?

That's not what I meant. I mean how does the fantasy elements allow character development to occur. I thought that was the sole purpose of the fantasy elements. Like asking "if this happened, what would you do". Doesn't Slice of Life involve character development that can be translated to everyday life. Well what was the purpose behind the fantasy elemets? It was to enhance the theme of show right? Isn't the theme a part of slice of life?


/facepalm

I'm sorry but could you re-read my post again because the answers to your questions are right there. I'll answer all your questions with one response again but before I do, let's clarify something here. Nagisa's development halted in episode 16 when she died so we can't really say that she had development after the miracle considering she's the reason that there needed to be one.

Again, Tomoya ignored his daughter for 4 of 5 years and turned to smoking, drinking and gambling during that time. He didn't realize that Nagisa wasn't the only person in his family. There was Ushio who needed his guidance and love. The whole point of the miracle was to teach Tomoya what it takes to be a father and at the same time to forgive his own father for the mistakes he made because Tomoya himself couldn't do any better when placed in the same position as his father. If there were no miracle, then we would not have gotten any development considering Tomoya just collapsed alongside his daughter in the snow and died. Even this "miracle" coincides with the family theme.

I thought that development occured in episode 18 and 19 already.



No, I actually don't make avatars or sigs, but there is a very useful thread in this sub-forum where you can request an avatar or request so you should use that if you don't know someone that can make you one.

yeah... (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2509956#post2509956)

[DeX-kun]

That's not what I meant. I mean how does the fantasy elements allow character development to occur. I thought that was the sole purpose of the fantasy elements. Like asking "if this happened, what would you do". Doesn't Slice of Life involve character development that can be translated to everyday life. Well what was the purpose behind the fantasy elemets? It was to enhance the theme of show right? Isn't the theme a part of slice of life?

Ok, this is a premeditated plot and the fantasy elements are there because this series is based off the visual novel. The genre doesn't necessarily have to include character development, it's more of plot development, that's why I said that it enhances the plot. Again, this isn't that significant for me to discuss and I'd rather drop this all together.

I thought that development occured in episode 18 and 19 already.

Yes, the development did occur before the miracle but what development do we have if all that was left was a dead family. The point of episode 22 was self-realization for Tomoya. The miracle occurred because he had the choice to either never meet Nagisa where nothing ever happened or do it all over again no matter the circumstances. If Tomoya had never met Nagisa, then he would have never forgiven his father and he would have went on to live his life as a delinquent resentful of his life. The character development that we had was shown at the end of episode 22 where Tomoya and his family go to visit his father where his grandmother lives. Without the miracle, there would be no one alive.

[Haak]

Yes, the development did occur before the miracle but what development do we have if all that was left was a dead family. The point of episode 22 was self-realization for Tomoya. The miracle occurred because he had the choice to either never meet Nagisa where nothing ever happened or do it all over again no matter the circumstances. If Tomoya had never met Nagisa, then he would have never forgiven his father and he would have went on to live his life as a delinquent resentful of his life. The character development that we had was shown at the end of episode 22 where Tomoya and his family go to visit his father where his grandmother lives. Without the miracle, there would be no one alive.

Okay there are two things here. First of all to say that all we have is a dead family if the miracle didn't occur isn't a good reason. The whole reason why plot devices are made is primarily because of reasons like this. Because they reached a dead end that nobody would like. Have you ever watched Bleach?

Second of all. I don't mind a miracle occuring but I wish it just wasn't too perfect. To me it's going against the theme of Tomoya trying to live through an imperfect world. If the miracle were imperfect then I wouldn't have minded.

Something like the garbage doll realising who he is becomes the real Tomoya who realises that he can use the light orbs to save Nagisa and a have perfect life but realises that somewhere along the line it would mean a bad thing for someone else like Akio did so instead realeses the light orbs and this stops the blizzard saving him and Ushio in the illusionary world and then they both figure that Nagisa might be the illsuionary world somewhere too so they go on a search to find her. Something like that! The same character development would've occured and it would've kept to the whole 'an imperfect world' theme.

[Ithekro]

Nothing says the world Tomoya gets after 22 is perfect. What we see looks perfect, but we don't really get to see all that much. Little snap shots of life.

Tomoya's choices was to accept family, the good and the bad. He seems to have gotten the good this time around. Maybe it will stay good, maybe it won't. The point is that he accepted it.

[Haak]

It's made to look that way and to Tomoya it probably is. It's as perfect as it can get.

[DeX-kun]

Okay there are two things here. First of all to say that all we have is a dead family if the miracle didn't occur isn't a good reason. The whole reason why plot devices are made is primarily because of reasons like this. Because they reached a dead end that nobody would like. Have you ever watched Bleach?

Plot devices were created because everything has been done before. If you want something original, I doubt that anyone can come up with one. Again, they didn't reach a dead end here, the plot was laid out since it's based off the game. There are always 2 sides to everything, but the results will be the same. There will always be someone to complain about it. Let's say this anime had an ending of hopelessness, then what? We'll have someone like you coming in here arguing that it would have been better to have a happy ending. This anime wasn't made to please only you.

On a side note, Bleach is irrelevant to this discussion.

Second of all. I don't mind a miracle occuring but I wish it just wasn't too perfect. To me it's going against the theme of Tomoya trying to live through an imperfect world. If the miracle were imperfect then I wouldn't have minded.

Nobody here ever said that it was perfect and you can quote me on that. Only you said it was. The theme was Tomoya trying to live through an imperfect world? Really? The theme of this anime was family, the main one that is and it was fairly obvious. I don't know where you get the notion that this anime was about Tomoya trying to live through an imperfect world because the ending of this series proves otherwise.

Something like the garbage doll realising who he is becomes the real Tomoya who realises that he can use the light orbs to save Nagisa and a have perfect life but realises that somewhere along the line it would mean a bad thing for someone else like Akio did so instead realeses the light orbs and this stops the blizzard saving him and Ushio in the illusionary world and then they both figure that Nagisa but be the illsuionary world somewhere too so they go on a seacrh to find her. Something like that! The same character development would've occured and it would've kept to the whole 'an imperfect world' theme.

You completely lost me here because I have no idea what you said in the first half of this paragraph, actually, I didn't understand most of it. Point here is that Tomoya didn't know what would come out of the miracle, all he wished for was to save Ushio and in the end he got Nagisa back as well. He had his choice in the beginning of episode 22, Tomoya could have decided to ignore Nagisa so he wouldn't have to make her suffer but he realized that he really didn't regret meeting her. If it meant that he had to go through all the pain and suffering again, he would take the risk. Again, there is no theme as the one that you claim. This anime isn't about suffering and tragic endings. This isn't Romeo and Juliet, this is Clannad. It's about family and hope.

Nothing says the world Tomoya gets after 22 is perfect. What we see looks perfect, but we don't really get to see all that much. Little snap shots of life.

Tomoya's choices was to accept family, the good and the bad. He seems to have gotten the good this time around. Maybe it will stay good, maybe it won't. The point is that he accepted it.

Yes, you beat me to it. Let me reiterate here. Tomoya didn't know what he was going to get when he awoke to the time where Nagisa gave birth. Tomoya thought that he was going to witness Nagisa die again. When the miracle occurred, Tomoya chose to accept the same life he lived with Nagisa, the good and the bad. There is no such thing as perfect.

[Haak]

Plot devices were created because everything has been done before. If you want something original, I doubt that anyone can come up with one. Again, they didn't reach a dead end here, the plot was laid out since it's based off the game. There are always 2 sides to everything, but the results will be the same. There will always be someone to complain about it. Let's say this anime had an ending of hopelessness, then what? We'll have someone like you coming in here arguing that it would have been better to have a happy ending. This anime wasn't made to please only you.

On a side note, Bleach is irrelevant to this discussion.

I really don't see how that addresses my point. It being based off a game doesn't mean anything. And the reason I mentioned Bleach was because i rmemeber having a similar convo with someone about that.


Nobody here ever said that it was perfect and you can quote me on that. Only you said it was. The theme was Tomoya trying to live through an imperfect world? Really? The theme of this anime was family, the main one that is and it was fairly obvious. I don't know where you get the notion that this anime was about Tomoya trying to live through an imperfect world because the ending of this series proves otherwise.


The fact that a load of shit happens to Tomoya? Not just Tomoya but to others as well. The only thing that proves otherwise is the ending and that's exactly what I'm complaining about. It's a Slice of Life isn't it? I know it's a fantasy aswell but the Fantasy shouldn't contradict the slice of life. I guess I ought to go back to my original point: If the purpose of the show is defeated by realism then that's kind of a weak purpose isn't it?


You completely lost me here because I have no idea what you said in the first half of this paragraph, actually, I didn't understand most of it. Point here is that Tomoya didn't know what would come out of the miracle, all he wished for was to save Ushio and in the end he got Nagisa back as well. He had his choice in the beginning of episode 22, Tomoya could have decided to ignore Nagisa so he wouldn't have to make her suffer but he realized that he really didn't regret meeting her. If it meant that he had to go through all the pain and suffering again, he would take the risk. Again, there is no theme as the one that you claim. This anime isn't about suffering and tragic endings. This isn't Romeo and Juliet, this is Clannad. It's about family and hope.

That's what I'm complaining about. Tomoya not realising doesn't mean anything against my point. My point was that there were alternatives to the happy ending which still had all the development and still covered the theme of the show (the family and hope theme as well) without it being so perfect (or as perfect as it can get, if you insist). The paragraph you replyed to was me giving such an example.

[DeX-kun]

I really don't see how that addresses my point. It being based off a game doesn't mean anything. And the reason I mentioned Bleach was because i rmemeber having a similar convo with someone about that.

The fact that a load of shit happens to Tomoya? Not just Tomoya but to others as well. The only thing that proves otherwise is the ending and that's exactly what I'm complaining about. It's a Slice of Life isn't it? I know it's a fantasy aswell but the Fantasy shouldn't contradict the slice of life. I guess I ought to go back to my original point: If the purpose of the show is defeated by realism then that's kind of a weak purpose isn't it?

That's what I'm complaining about. Tomoya not realising doesn't mean anything against my point. My point was that there were alternatives to the happy ending which still had all the development and still covered the theme of the show (the family and hope theme as well) without it being so perfect (or as perfect as it can get, if you insist). The paragraph you replyed to was me giving such an example.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2895/doublefacepalmh.jpg

Bleach is a completely different anime in which has no space for discussion here. You said Clannad reached a dead end but how can it when the plot was already set in stone. The only way I see Clannad reaching a dead end is if it had fillers in which it didn't, it was faithful to the visual novel. You had a similar conversation with someone else about it but I don't see how it holds any relevance to me since I didn't discuss it with you.

That's why I said that this anime is a mixture of different genres. Just because it's labeled as Slice of Life doesn't mean it's going to be as real as it gets when it also contains fantasy elements (which will be fictional.) If you want realism then just watch KGNE but that isn't Clannad. KyoAni isn't known for creating realistic animes. Their purpose wasn't to create the most realistic anime, only you seem to think that.

Yes, of course there were alternatives to the happy ending so let me reiterate again. We got the visual novels true ending which is for the fans of the game, like I said before, you aren't the only one watching this anime so if you didn't like it then that's just a shame. I for one haven't played the game and I still thought it was a good way to end it. We don't know if the alternative endings you're thinking about would be good or bad, it would end up the same in the end. It's subjective. I understand what you're trying to say but it doesn't seem you understand what I'm saying so I hope that this clears things up.

[Ithekro]

Simple problem...there wasn't any other endling along this route. Everytime you go through to the end, you get the 21 result. Over and over again. Sure you could take one of the other girl's paths and get the Another World endings such as the one for Tomoyo or Kyou...but until you did everything and Tomoya learns his leason about family...you will get the dead family result. The 22 ending is the result of sticking through everything. Enduring all the joy and the pain. There simply is no given alternative for the animation company to use.

Its a Key game. This is just how they do things. Like Kanon and AIR.

[Archon_Wing]

Hmm, weird enough but when I thought of slice of life, I thought of animes like Shana and Haruhi.

[dgreater1]

This has become a heated discussion :heh:

But anyway, a message to Haak

KEY Shows are made to make you think. If you're wondering what the hell the story is about, what happened to the ending, what happened to some scene, what happened before, what will happen after, what is this thing or that thing or etc. Then you've been KEYED :heh:

You mustn't compare this to some shows that you just watch and forget, you need to REFLECT on things that you have watched in CLANNAD to understand it, just as how you should reflect on what you experienced in life to sculpture yourself to the person you want to be. If you get the idea, cool, if you don't buy that idea, cool as well, if you don't get the idea, then the reason you're here is probably to try and get the idea, or you're probably just lost somewhere.

[Haak]

Bleach is a completely different anime in which has no space for discussion here. You said Clannad reached a dead end but how can it when the plot was already set in stone. The only way I see Clannad reaching a dead end is if it had fillers in which it didn't, it was faithful to the visual novel. You had a similar conversation with someone else about it but I don't see how it holds any relevance to me since I didn't discuss it with you.

I wanted to use Bleach to illustrate my point. If you watched Bleach then you'd understand. All plots are set in stone. That's doesn't prevent Deus Ex machina's from occuring does it? Think of any piece of literature, whatever it may be, that ended in a total blatant Deus Ex Machina but would've been worse if the Deus Ex Machina hadn't occured. That doesn't mean the what actually happenned isn't bad.

Saying it is what is because it's based on a game is not an excuse. It's an explanation.


That's why I said that this anime is a mixture of different genres. Just because it's labeled as Slice of Life doesn't mean it's going to be as real as it gets when it also contains fantasy elements (which will be fictional.) If you want realism then just watch KGNE but that isn't Clannad. KyoAni isn't known for creating realistic animes. Their purpose wasn't to create the most realistic anime, only you seem to think that.

Not just me. A lot of people. But anyway, I never said it had to be as real as it gets, otherwise I've would've complained about the illusionary world all together. The fact is that the family theme counts towards the Slice of Life. The family theme is partly what makes it a slice of life. And Slice of Life's themes are supposed to be realistic. If it contains fantasy elements then it should be made that it doesn't invalidate the slice of life's theme. The slice of life's theme should remain true and applicable to the real world even when fantasy is brought in. But that wasn't the case with the ending. I explained it a little better in the other thread.


Yes, of course there were alternatives to the happy ending so let me reiterate again. We got the visual novels true ending which is for the fans of the game, like I said before, you aren't the only one watching this anime so if you didn't like it then that's just a shame. I for one haven't played the game and I still thought it was a good way to end it. We don't know if the alternative endings you're thinking about would be good or bad, it would end up the same in the end. It's subjective. I understand what you're trying to say but it doesn't seem you understand what I'm saying so I hope that this clears things up.

Okay let me try and explain something. I LOVE Clannad After Story. Even despite the ending it reached my top ten (see profile) it could possibly be my most favourite. I'm still watching clips of Clannad on yotube over and over again. Now I didn't like the ending, but I've heard a lot of people say that those that didn't like the ending didn't understand it. Now think about. If you found out that a flaw in one your most favourite shows wasn't actually a flaw but was actually some sor tof fridge brilliance you'd be pretty pissed that you missed it, right? And you'd want to find out, right? So if what you're saying is true and that there were alternatives then that means there wasn't anything that I misunderstood, right? Dgreater1 actually got it.

[RemSuzu]

This is my favorite anime. It made me laugh and cry. I was surprised I didn't cry much at all when Nagisa died, but I was destroyed when Ushio died and also when they go on the trip, the field scene.

It was beautiful, with a very nice ending. Shoujo No Gensou is also one of my favorite songs now.

I didn't like the Tomoyo chapter much, but I loved the Kyou one. I was a bit upset that they put kissing in that one, when we never saw Nagisa or Tomoya kiss. >_>

Plus also I am quite the Dango fanatic. I even memorized most of the song. @_@

[FugibayashiFlower<3]

This is my favorite anime. It made me laugh and cry. I was surprised I didn't cry much at all when Nagisa died, but I was destroyed when Ushio died and also when they go on the trip, the field scene.

It was beautiful, with a very nice ending. Shoujo No Gensou is also one of my favorite songs now.

I didn't like the Tomoyo chapter much, but I loved the Kyou one. I was a bit upset that they put kissing in that one, when we never saw Nagisa or Tomoya kiss. >_>

Plus also I am quite the Dango fanatic. I even memorized most of the song. @_@

your just read my mind about everything i feel about this anime.

[DeX-kun]

It seems that someone negative repped me because they didn't like the "facepalms." Well I find the reason to be immature but hey, I don't go negative repping people without a good reason.

I wanted to use Bleach to illustrate my point. If you watched Bleach then you'd understand. All plots are set in stone. That's doesn't prevent Deus Ex machina's from occuring does it? Think of any piece of literature, whatever it may be, that ended in a total blatant Deus Ex Machina but would've been worse if the Deus Ex Machina hadn't occured. That doesn't mean the what actually happenned isn't bad.

Saying it is what is because it's based on a game is not an excuse. It's an explanation.

No, not all plots are set in stone for some anime, especially Bleach. Bleach is based off it's manga in which I believe hasn't ended yet while Clannad is based off the visual novel where the ending was completed a long time ago. We're only talking about the ending. The difference here is that the miracles weren't sudden, it's not like Clannad was realistic until the end. I wouldn't necessarily call this a "Deus Ex Machina" when there were miracles constantly happening. Fuko's presence at school was a miracle in it's own right, no? And that was in season 1.

If you want an excuse then I can't give you one, go ask Key and KyoAni. I'm giving you an explanation because that's all I have to offer and because primarily you asked for one. I didn't create this anime so I'm giving you my interpretation of it. There is no right and wrong here considering it's subjective. You figure it's bad and I say it's good. If you want an excuse as to why the ending was made so perfect, then go ask the creators because all I can give you is my interpretation.

Not just me. A lot of people. But anyway, I never said it had to be as real as it gets, otherwise I've would've complained about the illusionary world all together. The fact is that the family theme counts towards the Slice of Life. The family theme is partly what makes it a slice of life. And Slice of Life's themes are supposed to be realistic. If it contains fantasy elements then it should be made that it doesn't invalidate the slice of life's theme. The slice of life's theme should remain true and applicable to the real world even when fantasy is brought in. But that wasn't the case with the ending. I explained it a little better in the other thread.

Really? You and other people thought that this anime's purpose was to be realistic? I'm sorry but you and whoever else thinks that are highly mistaken. This paragraph is the reason I'm /facepalming, because it's frustrating trying to explain this to you. You've completely contradicted yourself and you're grasping at straws. Clannad is Slice of Life because it contains your everyday family life. Clannad is Fantasy because of the miracles, IW and such. There is no way that Fantasy coincides with real life, no matter how you look at it, Fantasy is fiction and it cannot "enhance" (as you said in a earlier post) Slice of Life for the very reason that they contradict each other. All of these genres are separate from one another because Clannad is made up of different pieces where it's respective genre applies. I don't know how else to explain this to you.

Okay let me try and explain something. I LOVE Clannad After Story. Even despite the ending it reached my top ten (see profile) it could possibly be my most favourite. I'm still watching clips of Clannad on yotube over and over again. Now I didn't like the ending, but I've heard a lot of people say that those that didn't like the ending didn't understand it. Now think about. If you found out that a flaw in one your most favourite shows wasn't actually a flaw but was actually some sor tof fridge brilliance you'd be pretty pissed that you missed it, right? And you'd want to find out, right? So if what you're saying is true and that there were alternatives then that means there wasn't anything that I misunderstood, right? Dgreater1 actually got it.

What you misunderstood was the whole thing about Slice of Life and Fantasy. I already partially stated what Dgreater1 said in my post prior to this one:

KyoAni isn't known for creating realistic animes. Their purpose wasn't to create the most realistic anime, only you seem to think that.

Although I forgot to mention Key here, Dgreater1 just further explicated this point.

[Haak]

It seems that someone negative repped me because they didn't like the "facepalms." Well I find the reason to be immature but hey, I don't go negative repping people without a good reason.

That wasn't me btw. And I'll prove it


No, not all plots are set in stone for some anime, especially Bleach. Bleach is based off it's manga in which I believe hasn't ended yet while Clannad is based off the visual novel where the ending was completed a long time ago. We're only talking about the ending. The difference here is that the miracles weren't sudden, it's not like Clannad was realistic until the end. I wouldn't necessarily call this a "Deus Ex Machina" when there were miracles constantly happening. Fuko's presence at school was a miracle in it's own right, no? And that was in season 1.

If you want an excuse then I can't give you one, go ask Key and KyoAni. I'm giving you an explanation because that's all I have to offer and because primarily you asked for one. I didn't create this anime so I'm giving you my interpretation of it. There is no right and wrong here considering it's subjective. You figure it's bad and I say it's good. If you want an excuse as to why the ending was made so perfect, then go ask the creators because all I can give you is my interpretation.


The same logic applies to Bleach even if it hasn't ended yet. If it's based on a visual novel then why is the visual novel exempt from criticism? I'm complaining about the plot wherevere it came from. And I don't where interpretation comes into this. You're defending the plot by saying it came from a visual novel. That's not interpretation. And I didn't mean to call it a Deux Ex machina.

I did ask for an excuse, not an explanation. An explanation can explain why something bad happened but can't excuse it.


Really? You and other people thought that this anime's purpose was to be realistic? I'm sorry but you and whoever else thinks that are highly mistaken. This paragraph is the reason I'm /facepalming, because it's frustrating trying to explain this to you. You've completely contradicted yourself and you're grasping at straws. Clannad is Slice of Life because it contains your everyday family life. Clannad is Fantasy because of the miracles, IW and such. There is no way that Fantasy coincides with real life, no matter how you look at it, Fantasy is fiction and it cannot "enhance" (as you said in a earlier post) Slice of Life for the very reason that they contradict each other. All of these genres are separate from one another because Clannad is made up of different pieces where it's respective genre applies. I don't know how else to explain this to you.

A Slice life is meant to be realistic.
The family theme of Clannad is a Slice of Life aspect
Therefore the Family theme of Clannad if meant to be realistic

I’m not saying Clannad has to be realistic. I’m saying the Slice of life theme is supposed to be realistic. The only reason the theme wasn’t realistic is because of the fantasy elements brought in, so you explaining to me why fantasy elements contradict slice of life elements only proves my point. The only thing that saves you here is you arguing that these elements were separated the whole time.

How can you possibly argue that the fantasy elements and separate from the slice of life elements and at the same time say that the miracle (fantasy element) occurred to achieve the family theme (Slice of life element). The only reason I’m complaining is because they weren’t separate. The fantasy elements (the miracle) contradicted the Slice of Life elements (family theme). This is what I’ve been complaining about.

The fact is that the fantasy does not have to contradict the slice of life theme. Look at Spirited Away. Are all the realistic messages conveyed in anyway contradicted by the fantasy elements? On the contrary the fantasy elements were there to illustrate those realistic themes. Now Spirited Away isn’t a slice of life but the same logic applies. Why did you think I gave you that alternate ending to Clannad? It’s a clear illustration that they do not have to contradict each other.


What you misunderstood was the whole thing about Slice of Life and Fantasy. I already partially stated what Dgreater1 said in my post prior to this one:
Although I forgot to mention Key here, Dgreater1 just further explicated this point.

No it wasn’t about that. I was just saying that either way I win. :)

[Khu]

You guys are all really pumped up lol. I just found the fantasy elements to help ease the emotion juuuust in case dudes started to jump off cliffs or something.

Or maybe it contributed to the emotion so much that the jump off cliff option was replaced with OMG? I dunno. XD

[DeX-kun]

That wasn't me btw. And I'll prove it

To be honest, I really don't care who it was because it's not going to change anything. It was a general statement.

The same logic applies to Bleach even if it hasn't ended yet. If it's based on a visual novel then why is the visual novel exempt from criticism? I'm complaining about the plot wherevere it came from. And I don't where interpretation comes into this. You're defending the plot by saying it came from a visual novel. That's not interpretation. And I didn't mean to call it a Deux Ex machina.

I did ask for an excuse, not an explanation. An explanation can explain why something bad happened but can't excuse it.

I'm sure I understand it but I find that in a lot of arguments between people it's always because of some misunderstanding, so just for for clarifications I'd like you to explain the whole purpose of the illusionary world and how it ties in with the theme of the show.

This was asking for an explanation no?

Besides that, I don't understand how you want me to "excuse" the plot for giving you an ending that doesn't fit your preferences. I'm giving you my interpretation of the IW and of the ending. If you don't like it, then I can't do anything about that. Like I said before, if you want an excuse then go ask Key and KyoAni.

You didn't mean to call it a "Deus Ex Machina?" You've contradicted yourself again unless there is another plot device that you were referring to that applies to the ending.

A Slice life is meant to be realistic.
The family theme of Clannad is a Slice of Life aspect
Therefore the Family theme of Clannad if meant to be realistic

I’m not saying Clannad has to be realistic. I’m saying the Slice of life theme is supposed to be realistic. The only reason the theme wasn’t realistic is because of the fantasy elements brought in, so you explaining to me why fantasy elements contradict slice of life elements only proves my point. The only thing that saves you here is you arguing that these elements were separated the whole time.

How can you possibly argue that the fantasy elements and separate from the slice of life elements and at the same time say that the miracle (fantasy element) occurred to achieve the family theme (Slice of life element). The only reason I’m complaining is because they weren’t separate. The fantasy elements (the miracle) contradicted the Slice of Life elements (family theme). This is what I’ve been complaining about.

The fact is that the fantasy does not have to contradict the slice of life theme. Look at Spirited Away. Are all the realistic messages conveyed in anyway contradicted by the fantasy elements? On the contrary the fantasy elements were there to illustrate those realistic themes. Now Spirited Away isn’t a slice of life but the same logic applies. Why did you think I gave you that alternate ending to Clannad? It’s a clear illustration that they do not have to contradict each other.

You've completely misconstrued everything I've stated so far and you're still grasping at straws. Who's talking about specific elements? I'm referring to the respective genres within Clannad. Tomoya living with Nagisa and going to work everyday is Slice of Life. While showing us the IW is Fantasy, right? I'm strictly speaking of genres. Try to read my post in it's entirety before jumping the gun.

Also, I never said that "the miracle occurred to achieve the family theme", if so, tell me where. What I did say is that the point of the miracle itself was for the development of Tomoya's character, self-realization. The moment Tomoya realized that he didn't regret meeting Nagisa, you got your character development. Tomoya was regretting meeting Nagisa ever since he found out about the danger of delivering Ushio. And I said that here:

The point of episode 22 was self-realization for Tomoya. The miracle occurred because he had the choice to either never meet Nagisa where nothing ever happened or do it all over again no matter the circumstances. If Tomoya had never met Nagisa, then he would have never forgiven his father and he would have went on to live his life as a delinquent resentful of his life.

From my interpretation, the family theme was achieved through showing us the suffering that Tomoya was put through and the sacrifices his father made to make Tomoya into a better man. Demonstrating how cold Tomoya was towards Ushio and how he seemingly resented her is how the family theme was achieved.


No it wasn’t about that. I was just saying that either way I win. :)

That's just childish. This is what you call trolling.

[Tak]

A Slice life is meant to be realistic.
The family theme of Clannad is a Slice of Life aspect
Therefore the Family theme of Clannad if meant to be realistic

According to common dictionary, slice of life in the 20th (and beyond) century now has the definition as follows:

representation of events and situations in everyday life in literature, film, journalism

Which does not indicate that it must be realistic, but merely a presentation of every day life in works of fiction. Therefore, a slice of life work is fully capable of incorporating fantasy elements. At the end of the day, Clannad is just fiction, not prime news on CNN.


I’m not saying Clannad has to be realistic. I’m saying the Slice of life theme is supposed to be realistic.

That is your opinion. Your opinion does not reflect the commonly accepted definition. Therefore, your opinion is now forfeited.


How can you possibly argue that the fantasy elements and separate from the slice of life elements and at the same time say that the miracle (fantasy element) occurred to achieve the family theme (Slice of life element). The only reason I’m complaining is because they weren’t separate. The fantasy elements (the miracle) contradicted the Slice of Life elements (family theme). This is what I’ve been complaining about.

Merry go around sure is fun.


The fact is that the fantasy does not have to contradict the slice of life theme. Look at Spirited Away. Are all the realistic messages conveyed in anyway contradicted by the fantasy elements? On the contrary the fantasy elements were there to illustrate those realistic themes. Now Spirited Away isn’t a slice of life but the same logic applies. Why did you think I gave you that alternate ending to Clannad? It’s a clear illustration that they do not have to contradict each other.

Thank you for proving that the ending is fully plausible.


No it wasn’t about that. I was just saying that either way I win. :)

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9011/imagey.gif

- Tak

[Haak]

This was asking for an explanation no?

It wasn't. That was a completely different point in a completely different context.


Besides that, I don't understand how you want me to "excuse" the plot for giving you an ending that doesn't fit your preferences. I'm giving you my interpretation of the IW and of the ending. If you don't like it, then I can't do anything about that. Like I said before, if you want an excuse then go ask Key and KyoAni.

You've sort of mixed this up with some other point. If I recall the original point I was addressing was you saying that without the miracle coccuring then we would've got an even worse neding and I would've still complained.


You didn't mean to call it a "Deus Ex Machina?" You've contradicted yourself again unless there is another plot device that you were referring to that applies to the ending.

Not really because I never did call it a Deus Ex Machina. I asked you to think of an example of a piece of literature that ended with a Deus Ex Machina but would have been even worse if the Deus Ex Machina hadn't occured. I never said the miracle was a Deus Ex Machina. I said it was a plot device yes, but i never said it was a Deus Ex Machina.


You've completely misconstrued everything I've stated so far and you're still grasping at straws. Who's talking about specific elements? I'm referring to the respective genres within Clannad. Tomoya living with Nagisa and going to work everyday is Slice of Life. While showing us the IW is Fantasy, right? I'm strictly speaking of genres. Try to read my post in it's entirety before jumping the gun.

I'm talking about speciifc elements. And my point still stands either way.


Also, I never said that "the miracle occurred to achieve the family theme", if so, tell me where. What I did say is that the point of the miracle itself was for the development of Tomoya's character, self-realization. The moment Tomoya realized that he didn't regret meeting Nagisa, you got your character development. Tomoya was regretting meeting Nagisa ever since he found out about the danger of delivering Ushio. And I said that here:

And I did point out that there were alternatives that would've achieved the same thing. Also all of Tomoya's self realiztation was about family. Also:


The IW ties in with the theme simply by existing. Without the IW, we wouldn't have gotten the existence of alternate universes and the importance of family.

That's very clearly telling me how they are not so seperate.


From my interpretation, the family theme was achieved through showing us the suffering that Tomoya was put through and the sacrifices his father made to make Tomoya into a better man. Demonstrating how cold Tomoya was towards Ushio and how he seemingly resented her is how the family theme was achieved.

So let me get this straight. You're saying that by your interpretation the family theme is achieved through the miracle but by your interpretation the family theme is completely separate from the miracle (Look if you believe that the family theme is what makes the slice of life genre and the miracle is a part of the fantasy genre and that these genre's are both seperate then it logically follows,) Try putting it on a Venn Diagram and you'll see what I mean.


That's just childish. This is what you call trolling.

It's TRUE! If I'm wrong and there was a good reason for the miracle to occur then I can appreciate one of my most favourite anime even more. If I'm right, well then, I just have the pleasure of knowing that I'm right. It's not like a lost anything.

Oh and Tak: I said Slice of Life elements must be as realistic as possible. I never said a Slice of life anime couldn't have fantasy elemtns. I swaer I've said that like a hundred times now.

[DeX-kun]

You've sort of mixed this up with some other point. If I recall the original point I was addressing was you saying that without the miracle coccuring then we would've got an even worse neding and I would've still complained.


I didn't say that you would complain, I said that we would have gotten someone like you except they would be complaining about the opposite of what your gripe is.

I'm talking about speciifc elements. And my point still stands either way.

And I did point out that there were alternatives that would've achieved the same thing. Also all of Tomoya's self realiztation was about family. Also:

That's very clearly telling me how they are not so seperate.

You're still misconstruing my post. It's nice that you're talking about specific elements but I never was. I'm speaking of genres while you're mixing it with themes and elements within the plot. I also never disagreed with your point, I'm clearing up what you've been misunderstanding.

In the beginning you stated this:

So you're telling me that Slice of Life anime is not meant to be realistic?

Everything I've stated concerning this topic was about genres, not elements but you came with your straw man argument and misconstrued what I've been saying from the beginning. This is exactly why I wanted to drop this part of the discussion but you keep insisting.

So let me get this straight. You're saying that by your interpretation the family theme is achieved through the miracle but by your interpretation the family theme is completely separate from the miracle (Look if you believe that the family theme is what makes the slice of life genre and the miracle is a part of the fantasy genre and that these genre's are both seperate then it logically follows,) Try putting it on a Venn Diagram and you'll see what I mean.

Again, you're confusing my words. I said the elements in the plot are what make their respective genre's. And yes, I have been stating that the genre's are seperate, hence the anime being labeled as Slice of Life and Fantasy. Now if you want to talk about specific elements and themes then they are able to coincide.

What you quoted is my response where I was being more specific and speaking of those elements, I was not referring to the genre's. Now do you mind dropping this part of the discussion?

It's TRUE! If I'm wrong and there was a good reason for the miracle to occur then I can appreciate one of my most favourite anime even more. If I'm right, well then, I just have the pleasure of knowing that I'm right. It's not like a lost anything.

I was unaware that we were playing a game here. You're failing to comprehend what I've been trying to explain here and looking for ways to argue something that I never stated.

What exactly is it that you want to be right about? That there was no need for the miracle? Please clarify.

Oh and Tak: I said Slice of Life elements must be as realistic as possible. I never said a Slice of life anime couldn't have fantasy elemtns. I swaer I've said that like a hundred times now.

Hence this redundant argument.

[Khu]

I am so glad people are still talking in legible sentences ><

[DeX-kun]

I am so glad people are still talking in legible sentences ><

Well hopefully I'm making things as clear as I possibly can. :heh:

[Haak]

I didn't say that you would complain, I said that we would have gotten someone like you except they would be complaining about the opposite of what your gripe is.

My point still stands anyway.

You're still misconstruing my post. It's nice that you're talking about specific elements but I never was. I'm speaking of genres while you're mixing it with themes and elements within the plot. I also never disagreed with your point, I'm clearing up what you've been misunderstanding.

In the beginning you stated this:

Everything I've stated concerning this topic was about genres, not elements but you came with your straw man argument and misconstrued what I've been saying from the beginning. This is exactly why I wanted to drop this part of the discussion but you keep insisting.


Okay first of all that wasn’t the beginning. THIS was the beginning:
So what was the purpose of the the show? If the purpose of the show is defeated by realism then that's kind of a weak purpose isn't it?

This was me talking about specific elements which I always was. YOU were also talking about specific elements right from start:

Ok, this is a premeditated plot and the fantasy elements are there because this series is based off the visual novel. The genre doesn't necessarily have to include character development, it's more of plot development, that's why I said that it enhances the plot. Again, this isn't that significant for me to discuss and I'd rather drop this all together.

Yes, the development did occur before the miracle but what development do we have if all that was left was a dead family. The point of episode 22 was self-realization for Tomoya. The miracle occurred because he had the choice to either never meet Nagisa where nothing ever happened or do it all over again no matter the circumstances. If Tomoya had never met Nagisa, then he would have never forgiven his father and he would have went on to live his life as a delinquent resentful of his life. The character development that we had was shown at the end of episode 22 where Tomoya and his family go to visit his father where his grandmother lives. Without the miracle, there would be no one alive.

What you quoted was me bringing in genre’s so I could prove that the family theme was meant to be realistic. I would later go on to elaborate on it further:

T
A Slice life is meant to be realistic.
The family theme of Clannad is a Slice of Life aspect
Therefore the Family theme of Clannad if meant to be realistic


I told you that I wasn’t complaining about the whole genre. That I was complaining about the miracle. So why on earth would you be talking about genre's in general to prove me wrong?

It doesn’t matter if you were talking about genre’s the whole time, anyway. Your point was that the two genre’s were separate wasn’t it? And I demonstrated that that wasn’t the case by bringing in the specific elements to prove that. That’s not making straw men. The conclusion of my argument is still about the genre’s. Here let me show you:
1) It is said that the two Clannad genre’s (Slice of Life and Fantasy) are separate
2) The Slice of Life genre includes the family theme.
3) The Fantasy genre includes the miracle element.
4) The family theme and the miracle element are connected
5) Therefore the two genre’s are not separate.
Even if you are right and I was bringing in specific elements I was still on the same page.


Again, you're confusing my words. I said the elements in the plot are what make their respective genre's. And yes, I have been stating that the genre's are seperate, hence the anime being labeled as Slice of Life and Fantasy. Now if you want to talk about specific elements and themes then they are able to coincide
What you quoted is my response where I was being more specific and speaking of those elements, I was not referring to the genre's. Now do you mind dropping this part of the discussion?
.

Which means that the genre’s are not separate as I’ve pointed out. Like I said: Draw a Venn Diagram.



I was unaware that we were playing a game here. You're failing to comprehend what I've been trying to explain here and looking for ways to argue something that I never stated.

What exactly is it that you want to be right about? That there was no need for the miracle? Please clarify.

I’m not arguing anything here. I was just stating WHY I was arguing. Again, this was my original point:

So what was the purpose of the the show? If the purpose of the show is defeated by realism then that's kind of a weak purpose isn't it?


Hence this redundant argument.

What do you mean?

[DeX-kun]

Okay first of all that wasn’t the beginning. THIS was the beginning:

This was me talking about specific elements which I always was. YOU were also talking about specific elements right from start:

What you quoted was me bringing in genre’s so I could prove that the family theme was meant to be realistic. I would later go on to elaborate on it further:

I told you that I wasn’t complaining about the whole genre. That I was complaining about the miracle. So why on earth would you be talking about genre's in general to prove me wrong?

Again, that's not the point. I never responded to that quote, I began a discussion with you on your response after that one. Also when I began talking about specific elements I had thought that the genre talk was dropped because I've been making general statements about solely genre's. Hence your quote.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I'm just pointing out that you've misunderstood me from the beginning. You're implying that I was being specific about genre's when I wasn't, I was merely referring to them as descriptions. I got more specific when you began speaking of character development and such so I figured the whole genre talk was discarded.

I’m not arguing anything here. I was just stating WHY I was arguing. Again, this was my original point:

So what was the purpose of the the show? If the purpose of the show is defeated by realism then that's kind of a weak purpose isn't it?


If that's your point then I disagree here. The show's purpose was not defeated by realism. The show's purpose was largely family and hope, correct? Well the miracle gave Tomoya the opportunity to turn away from Nagisa and hope that she never suffers again or talk to her and take the risk of facing adversity again. Tomoya chose the latter so this is where your fantasy element (now I'm being specific and I hope we're on the same page) helps provide your character development. Without the miracle, Tomoya still regrets ever meeting Nagisa. Hence why he cries every time he thinks of her.

[Archon_Wing]

It seems that someone negative repped me because they didn't like the "facepalms." Well I find the reason to be immature but hey, I don't go negative repping people without a good reason.


Eh, people give negative rep for all sorta of random reasons even for the most innocuous posts. Basically expressing any kind of opinion will do that; I even got one for praising this series lol. Honestly, I've made much more controversial/crappy posts than that. I'm sorta disappointed I have to look hard for these secret insults instead of having someone flame me directly. :heh: So I wouldn't take it too seriously.

[DeX-kun]

Eh, people give negative rep for all sorta of random reasons even for the most innocuous posts. Basically expressing any kind of opinion will do that; I even got one for praising this series lol. Honestly, I've made much more controversial/crappy posts than that. I'm sorta disappointed I have to look hard for these secret insults instead of having someone flame me directly. :heh: So I wouldn't take it too seriously.

Meh, I was making a general statement to whoever did it. Either way, this series has been planned out very well and I enjoyed every minute of it. One thing I do have to say about this series is the choice of playing "Torch" for every ending :mad: All the episodes with those heart-breaking endings could have used a more depressing song to keep that emotion running but "Torch" just doesn't cut it for me -_-

[Archon_Wing]

Meh, I was making a general statement to whoever did it.

Yea I know. Mine was a general statement too- that occasionally the rep system can be used by random people to troll and they probaly do it because they can. Kinda like random 1s in every poll around this site and on the internet (especially IMDB). Not that 1 is not a legit option, but yea.

Either way, this series has been planned out very well and I enjoyed every minute of it. One thing I do have to say about this series is the choice of playing "Torch" for everyone ending All the episodes with those heart-breaking endings could have used a more depressing song to keep that emotion running but "Torch" just doesn't cut it for me -_-

Yea Torch is probaly one of the ed songs I could care less about. It probaly would have been better just to have no ED for those episodes and just play the credits over the last scenes.

Not having Torch actually made me rate the Kyou OVA a bit higher. ;) Otherwise I'd just rant for a while. :D

[DeX-kun]

Yea Torch is probaly one of the ed songs I could care less about. It probaly would have been better just to have no ED for those episodes and just play the credits over the last scenes.

Not having Torch actually made me rate the Kyou OVA a bit higher. ;) Otherwise I'd just rant for a while. :D

That's what I questioned as well. I mean they could have just left what ever song that was playing the particular depressing scene and just roll some credits. I mean it was just a mood killer :heh: Bah, the song itself isn't so bad but the way it was used was horrible. It actually made me dislike the song slightly.

[Khu]

Shoulda used another variant of Nagisa lol.

[DeX-kun]

Shoulda used another variant of Nagisa lol.

Even that would have been a good idea. That's probably the only thing that I hold against this series. They did so well at placing music in certain scenes, yet they couldn't do it for emotional endings in certain episodes -_-

[Khu]

Maybe they wanted it that way, so as to kind of jerk the audience back to reality?

[DeX-kun]

Maybe they wanted it that way, so as to kind of jerk the audience back to reality?

I doubt that. Torch was kind of poppy and it really threw off the vibe of the ending scene. Either way, did it bother you at all? Or you didn't mind? I mean, it didn't bother me as much when I first saw it but after I re-watched it a couple of times, I see why some people felt that it was out of place.

[Khu]

lol.

I haven't watched After Story yet, I just know from the game.

Although I have listened to Torch on youtube, and I can hear (lol) why people think that it was out of place.

[DeX-kun]

lol.

I haven't watched After Story yet, I just know from the game.

Although I have listened to Torch on youtube, and I can hear (lol) why people think that it was out of place.

Oh wow, you should have told me that :heh: I was talking to you thinking you've seen After Story. Well as long as you like Nagisa I think you'll enjoy the anime so much more ;) There are some that didn't like Nagisa (for reasons that are beyond me) and didn't enjoy After Story.

[Khu]

Lol.

After Story is just a natural extension of the story...

And the relationship growth between the 2 is great in the first series, there's not that much depth that can be given with any other heroine really.

I mean, if the personality isn't fitting, well she's a lot bolder with Tomoya eventually, (watched the scene where Nagisa announced they were having sex on Youtube, lols) and that GROWTH is what makes their relationship special.

[DeX-kun]

Lol.

After Story is just a natural extension of the story...

And the relationship growth between the 2 is great in the first series, there's not that much depth that can be given with any other heroine really.

I mean, if the personality isn't fitting, well she's a lot bolder with Tomoya eventually, (watched the scene where Nagisa announced they were having sex on Youtube, lols) and that GROWTH is what makes their relationship special.

Shh, don't tell anyone but I'm a huge Nagisa fan :heh: I definitely do agree with you on all accounts. I figure it's the personality that some don't enjoy but it's on the contrary for me. What I found most appealing was the will within Nagisa to keep going and stay with Tomoya through thick and thin. That's what I respected the most about her and how understanding she was.

Although you've already played the game, you shouldn't spoil yourself with youtube videos <_< (The onii-chan scene was hilarious though, never get tired of that :p) Luckily I was never exposed to anything about Clannad, I just one day decided to watch Clannad and boy, what a ride that was :heh:

[Khu]

lol.

The game itself sometimes makes better scenes than the anime and vice versa.

[DeX-kun]

lol.

The game itself sometimes makes better scenes than the anime and vice versa.

Yeah, that will usually happen with all anime. I'm planning on getting the game myself but I'm still recovering from watching the anime :heh:

[Khu]

lol.

I got my gf the anime and game, she's watched the anime, but now I'm wondering whether to just import my saves onto my new comp (which I'm using) or just playing through again with her lol.

[Haak]

Again, that's not the point. I never responded to that quote, I began a discussion with you on your response after that one. Also when I began talking about specific elements I had thought that the genre talk was dropped because I've been making general statements about solely genre's. Hence your quote.

Like I said, what you quoted was me still talking about specific elements. I only brought in genre's to prove my point about specific elements. I was still on the subject of specific elements. So in effect you did respond to quote even if you think you didn't.


I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I'm just pointing out that you've misunderstood me from the beginning. You're implying that I was being specific about genre's when I wasn't, I was merely referring to them as descriptions. I got more specific when you began speaking of character development and such so I figured the whole genre talk was discarded.

Okay this I don't understand at all. What do you mean when you say you weren't being specific about genre's? You said:

I'm strictly speaking of genres.

Now apparently I misconstrued that and I think I can see that now but i just don't understand what.


If that's your point then I disagree here. The show's purpose was not defeated by realism. The show's purpose was largely family and hope, correct? Well the miracle gave Tomoya the opportunity to turn away from Nagisa and hope that she never suffers again or talk to her and take the risk of facing adversity again. Tomoya chose the latter so this is where your fantasy element (now I'm being specific and I hope we're on the same page) helps provide your character development. Without the miracle, Tomoya still regrets ever meeting Nagisa. Hence why he cries every time he thinks of her.

Okay I have a lot to say here but I think it's best if I take it one at a time.

Actually the miracle occured AFTER all that development occured.

[FhnuZoag]

Shoulda used another variant of Nagisa lol.

Well, not that. 'The dango song' had enormous significance by the end of the series, and using it again would dilute its impact when you hear it again. Still, there's other options: personally, I think something like a slower vocal version of Country Train or the later part of Hitohira no Sakura would have worked well.

Then again, maybe that'd have caused people to start killing themselves in eps 17 and 21.

[DeX-kun]

Now apparently I misconstrued that and I think I can see that now but i just don't understand what.

We've just misunderstood each other, simple as that. I didn't really want to continue all the genre talk because I had a feeling it would lead to arguing semantics and it seems like it did happen. I've said this before but I never disagreed with your point about realistic messages being conveyed through fantasy elements. I agree with that.


Okay I have a lot to say here but I think it's best if I take it one at a time.

Actually the miracle occured AFTER all that development occured.

You can share your opinion as to what you figure the other development was because from what I saw, Tomoya had been resentful of ever meeting Nagisa during the time he spent before the miracle had occurred. Then once the miracle kicked in and Tomoya had to make a choice, that's when he realized that he didn't regret meeting Nagisa. Yes, you said that his self-realization was about family but his realization about Nagisa didn't occur until he was thrown into the miracle. It's a message about decisions. Instead, Tomoya should have realized how happy he made her by being with her and how much she really did enjoy their life together.

Well, not that. 'The dango song' had enormous significance by the end of the series, and using it again would dilute its impact when you hear it again. Still, there's other options: personally, I think something like a slower vocal version of Country Train or the later part of Hitohira no Sakura would have worked well.

Then again, maybe that'd have caused people to start killing themselves in eps 17 and 21.

:heh: No, no,no. Although when I saw Nagisa's death, my jaw just dropped on the floor. I was in denial until about 5 minutes into episode 17 :p (Mind you, I never played the game and I didn't know anything regarding Clannad.)

[Khu]

Shh, don't tell anyone but I'm a huge Nagisa fan :heh: I definitely do agree with you on all accounts. I figure it's the personality that some don't enjoy but it's on the contrary for me. What I found most appealing was the will within Nagisa to keep going and stay with Tomoya through thick and thin. That's what I respected the most about her and how understanding she was.

I just find the relationship growth, and I'm also a Nagisa fan too lol.

[Gibber]

This was one of my first anime that I watched that wasn't shounen and thank god I'm opened to more stuff like this now. Even though I finished the series like a month ago, I still can't get it out of my head lol.

I do wish I had watched the anime first and then play the visual novel. Nagisa's and Ushio's death bombed me in the VN and when I saw it in the anime, I was just crushed again. Torch didn't really bother me, I actually like the song.

[DeX-kun]

This was one of my first anime that I watched that wasn't shounen and thank god I'm opened to more stuff like this now. Even though I finished the series like a month ago, I still can't get it out of my head lol.

If you can't get Clannad out of your head then that means you need your fix :heh: Just re-watch Clannad again ;)

I do wish I had watched the anime first and then play the visual novel. Nagisa's and Ushio's death bombed me in the VN and when I saw it in the anime, I was just crushed again. Torch didn't really bother me, I actually like the song.

I guess I should appreciate the fact that I knew nothing of Clannad before watching it :D Because all of the powerful emotional scenes really did a number on me :heh:

[Gibber]

If you can't get Clannad out of your head then that means you need your fix :heh: Just re-watch Clannad again ;)



I guess I should appreciate the fact that I knew nothing of Clannad before watching it :D Because all of the powerful emotional scenes really did a number on me :heh:
I'd love to rewatch Clannad if only I wasn't trying to watch 10 other animes lol.

Yeah, it did bother me a bit when I went like "Oh wait, what about X scene in the VN, why isn't it in the anime etc" but like I probably rambled on before, some scenes were just beautifully captured. Most people usually hate VN to anime adaptations (though there are some bad ones) but Clannad was definitely good (well not if you're not a big Nagisa fan).

[Khu]

Well if you weren't, even the VN wouldn't have done it for you either. At least, if I was a Kyou fan and I knew After Story was focused on Nagisa, I wouldn't be completely satisfied with only the route (which I guess is why there's a fan made one)

[Akka]

Doh, I can't believe I hadn't still voted.

Let's keep it simple : Clannad is one of the very, very best series I've ever seen. The mood is masterfully done, with humour, emotion and sadness interwined and not clashing, the animation and drawing are excellent, and the cast is one of the best - nearly all the characters feels like real persons you would like to have as friends.
The first season is fun, even hilarious at time, with its cute moments of emotion.
The second season has its fun too, but has a darker tone and the second part is simply gut-wrenching. If you don't cry in this show, you don't have a soul (or malfunctionning lacrymal canals).

Even now, several months later, just looking at the opening theme make me cry :-/

I give it a well-deserved 9, which is really a tremendously good rating in my views.

[Archon_Wing]

Being a person that laughs through most "dramatic" moments because most series fall flat when they try to be serious (lol Evangelion), I still thought a few places in this series was really touching even when I was pretty sure what was gonna happen.

But Chiisana Tenohira really takes the cake. The scene right before with the lights outside the window and when they start singing the Dango song well... not sure what could ever beat that. Hell, just bringing it up makes me want to go watch it again.

[DeX-kun]

Being a person that laughs through most "dramatic" moments because most series fall flat when they try to be serious (lol Evangelion), I still thought a few places in this series was really touching even when I was pretty sure what was gonna happen.

But Chiisana Tenohira really takes the cake. The scene right before with the lights outside the window and when they start singing the Dango song well... not sure what could ever beat that. Hell, just bringing it up makes me want to go watch it again.

That really is the strong point about this series. No matter what you think of this series, whether you hate it or love it, it'll leave a lasting impression. I have a lot of memories from this series and I try to hold back as long as I can but I end up re-watching the whole series because I want to experience it again :heh:

Tomoya singing the Dango song was such a touching moment because I remember his first reaction when he heard Nagisa sing it for the first time, it made him sick. But after her death, Tomoya really valued that song so much more.

[Haak]

You can share your opinion as to what you figure the other development was because from what I saw, Tomoya had been resentful of ever meeting Nagisa during the time he spent before the miracle had occurred. Then once the miracle kicked in and Tomoya had to make a choice, that's when he realized that he didn't regret meeting Nagisa. Yes, you said that his self-realization was about family but his realization about Nagisa didn't occur until he was thrown into the miracle. It's a message about decisions. Instead, Tomoya should have realized how happy he made her by being with her and how much she really did enjoy their life together.

You know what I can sort of see where you're coming from.

[-chii-]

it pains me to see 115 votes for a perfect 10

[DeX-kun]

it pains me to see 115 votes for a perfect 10

And it pains me to see 3 painful votes but I don't see how that's relevant :confused:

[kk2extreme]

This is the anime that makes me cry more times than air and kanon combine :heh:

[velvet nightmare]

isn't obvious that there would be a bias towards people liking the series more than hating it in the clannad section

anyways, i thought the first season was average, im not a fantasy type so the first 10 episodes with fuko annoyed the hell out of me and near the end i thought the ending was just way too convenient and it seemed all planned

dropped after story after 8 episodes, i didnt feel the story was going anywhere more than it was just telling about the other side characters past/situations

[DeX-kun]

isn't obvious that there would be a bias towards people liking the series more than hating it in the clannad section

anyways, i thought the first season was average, im not a fantasy type so the first 10 episodes with fuko annoyed the hell out of me and near the end i thought the ending was just way too convenient and it seemed all planned

dropped after story after 8 episodes, i didnt feel the story was going anywhere more than it was just telling about the other side characters past/situations

No offense but I'm not sure if you're in any position to say whether there is a bias or not when you haven't even watched the entirety of After Story (although a lot of people have enjoyed this series according to the percentage of votes.) The only reason this series has become my favorite anime to this day is because of After Story. I agree that the first season of Clannad is not anything special (but I did enjoy Fuko's arc.)

After Story is a different story for me because this is the bulk of the series. AS is what defined the series for me and the funny thing is, you pretty much dropped the series when it was about to take off. Episodes 9-22 is what made AS what it is, now whether you like it or not is up to you. If you felt that the story wasn't going anywhere but this anime was so well received then there must be a reason for it, you missed a huge amount of the plot. Now I don't know if it will suit your preferences but I suggest you give the rest of the series a watch before coming in here and giving your opinion.

[Proto]

indeed, you dropped After Story just when the good stuff was about to happen D:

[Ithekro]

Basically After Story gets around to being After Story when the story returns to being about Tomoya and Nagisa. (well mostly Tomoya)

[Archon_Wing]

To be fair, Yukine's part was somewhat boring. I wouldn't call it bad because of the cool fight scene, but I didn't really care for it. That being said I watched AS slowly through the first 8 episodes, then went from 9-22 in one sitting. I usually never watch more than 2-3 episodes of anything at once, so I think that's something. :) It took me a month or two to finish season 1 but only a few days for AS.

[DeX-kun]

Basically After Story gets around to being After Story when the story returns to being about Tomoya and Nagisa.

To put it another way, they saved the best for last. They got rid of all the side character stories in the beginning of AS and then moved on to the main characters. I won't lie though, I found Misae and Yukine's arcs to be pretty entertaining in their own rights but definitely not as powerful as Tomoya and Nagisa's.

[velvet nightmare]

After Story is a different story for me because this is the bulk of the series. AS is what defined the series for me and the funny thing is, you pretty much dropped the series when it was about to take off. Episodes 9-22 is what made AS what it is, now whether you like it or not is up to you. If you felt that the story wasn't going anywhere but this anime was so well received then there must be a reason for it, you missed a huge amount of the plot. Now I don't know if it will suit your preferences but I suggest you give the rest of the series a watch before coming in here and giving your opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias

eg. asking in a doctor convention whether or not everyone thinks health is important, same thing here why everyone is giving the series a perfect 10

in any case, i figured i was missing out on something important i might pick it up again some time

[DeX-kun]

in any case, i figured i was missing out on something important i might pick it up again some time

Well good luck to you, don't forget your box of tissues. I hope you enjoy this series as much as I did whenever you decide to pick it up again.

[XGeneral2000]

Well, just finished watching Clannad and Clannad:AS. This is the third KyoAni--Key anime I'd watched (AIR and Kanon came before), so I entered fully expecting it to mercilessly tie knots in the heartstrings (it's gotten to the point that every time they introduce a new girl, I fully expect them to die at some point and am already formulating possible demises). Wasn't disappointed in the least.

Granted, the first season of Clannad was a lot more upbeat then I'd expected. Fuuko was the only "death" in the entire season. Every arc ended quite happily. The guy got the girl, everyone's cheery. Emotional moments abound, but they were all "happy tears" moments.

Then came Clannad:AS, which seemed to be created with the intention of balancing out the first season's cheery mood by griefing Tomoya to death (literally). Believe it or not, of all the scenes I'd gotten a bit misty-eyed in, I shed nary a tear at Nagisa's and Ushio's deaths. That's not to say I didn't like them, or that I don't have a soul (I did cry at other points in the series), I just felt something was missing. Nagisa's death scene seemed to be too rushed. If there was one scene in the entire series that needed to be fleshed out properly, it was this one. There was also the fact that since there were 6 episodes remaining, I was busy wondering what was the series was going to do with them, having already killed off the main heroine.

As for Ushio...when I got to episode 20-21, I was expecting a much different ending. Clannad seemed to be focusing largely on the father-daughter relationship between Tomoya and Ushio (particularly after Episode 18) and so I expected a satisfying, lesson-teaching ending with Tomoya and Ushio living together and strengthening each other to survive without Nagisa, with her spirit watching over them. So when Ushio got sick, I initially thought it would just be another "trial to overcome that would strengthen their bonds," at worst something to mirror Nagisa's own close shave when she was 5. Then she got canned, and I was just like "Really? Are you serious?" To me, it felt like an unnecessary Tomoya-sucker-punch, designed to wring a final few tears from the audience.

All right, so I see the message. After going through a living hell, Tomoya has accrued enough wisdom and suffered enough trials that he can be granted his wish to live happily with his full family. It's supposed to teach us it's darkest before dawn, that hope is just around the bend, that miracles can happen if only we believe. Clannad's not a reflection of reality, it's a simple drama that takes us through ups and downs and ends happily.

In the end, I did enjoy this series, a lot. Generally speaking, I was happy when the characters were happy, and sad when the characters were sad. I got sand in my eyes when Key kicked some at me (with a few glaring exceptions). And as much as I would have rather had a different ending, I was still happy with Key's ending. Seeing Tomoya together with his family again made feel all fuzzy inside (despite my logical side's best efforts). It's an anime that I don't expect to haunt me for years to come; rather, it was a well-told story with simple, clearly presented themes. Worth the time to watch, but not a masterpiece in my eyes. So, not the performance I expected, but executed well enough that I was satisfied.

9/10.

[Miyuki-ism]

What do you mean literally? Tomoya never died.

[Ithekro]

Actually, it is implied he did.

[Khu]

Hmm, you know what would be cool? if a group of fans decided to dub the whole series themselves. Twould take much longer, and might not be as good, but at least people could enjoy the english dubbing... even if the Japanese dubbing is so much better (Can you really get someone that mimics Nagisa's voice...or Kotomi's? XD)

[Miyuki-ism]

Where was it implied that he did?

And also me and a much of other guys were going to do a gender bended dub after a friend of ours returns from vacation.

[Khu]

Nooooez not gender bended D:

We need something for the greater masses that don't like Japanese dubs XD

[Miyuki-ism]

Yea I know, but it's just for us really, just so we can sort of laugh, and do it for fun.

[Khu]

lol, okay.

Too bad they're licensed now...

[Ithekro]

When he collapsed before entering the Illusionary World.

[Haak]

To be fair, Yukine's part was somewhat boring. I wouldn't call it bad because of the cool fight scene, but I didn't really care for it. That being said I watched AS slowly through the first 8 episodes, then went from 9-22 in one sitting. I usually never watch more than 2-3 episodes of anything at once, so I think that's something. :) It took me a month or two to finish season 1 but only a few days for AS.

The fight scene was pretty lame too. And Sunohara's arc was a joke. I prefer to think of of AS starting at episode 9 and deny the existence of those before.

[XGeneral2000]

What do you mean literally? Tomoya never died.

It's never explicitly stated, but I feel it's heavily implied. Tomoya collapses after Ushio dies, and logically speaking, he'd probably die from exposure and lack of will to live. Tomoya also plays the role of the robot in the Ushio's Illusionary World. Because the girl (Ushio) addresses the robot (Tomoya) as her father, that means the events in that world occur "after" Episode 21 (even though that dimension exists outside normal time). And so for both Ushio and Tomoya to exist in that world together, I figure it most likely means that they both died.

[DeX-kun]

Well, just finished watching Clannad and Clannad:AS. This is the third KyoAni--Key anime I'd watched (AIR and Kanon came before), so I entered fully expecting it to mercilessly tie knots in the heartstrings (it's gotten to the point that every time they introduce a new girl, I fully expect them to die at some point and am already formulating possible demises). Wasn't disappointed in the least.

Granted, the first season of Clannad was a lot more upbeat then I'd expected. Fuuko was the only "death" in the entire season. Every arc ended quite happily. The guy got the girl, everyone's cheery. Emotional moments abound, but they were all "happy tears" moments.

Then came Clannad:AS, which seemed to be created with the intention of balancing out the first season's cheery mood by griefing Tomoya to death (literally). Believe it or not, of all the scenes I'd gotten a bit misty-eyed in, I shed nary a tear at Nagisa's and Ushio's deaths. That's not to say I didn't like them, or that I don't have a soul (I did cry at other points in the series), I just felt something was missing. Nagisa's death scene seemed to be too rushed. If there was one scene in the entire series that needed to be fleshed out properly, it was this one. There was also the fact that since there were 6 episodes remaining, I was busy wondering what was the series was going to do with them, having already killed off the main heroine.

As for Ushio...when I got to episode 20-21, I was expecting a much different ending. Clannad seemed to be focusing largely on the father-daughter relationship between Tomoya and Ushio (particularly after Episode 18) and so I expected a satisfying, lesson-teaching ending with Tomoya and Ushio living together and strengthening each other to survive without Nagisa, with her spirit watching over them. So when Ushio got sick, I initially thought it would just be another "trial to overcome that would strengthen their bonds," at worst something to mirror Nagisa's own close shave when she was 5. Then she got canned, and I was just like "Really? Are you serious?" To me, it felt like an unnecessary Tomoya-sucker-punch, designed to wring a final few tears from the audience.

All right, so I see the message. After going through a living hell, Tomoya has accrued enough wisdom and suffered enough trials that he can be granted his wish to live happily with his full family. It's supposed to teach us it's darkest before dawn, that hope is just around the bend, that miracles can happen if only we believe. Clannad's not a reflection of reality, it's a simple drama that takes us through ups and downs and ends happily.

In the end, I did enjoy this series, a lot. Generally speaking, I was happy when the characters were happy, and sad when the characters were sad. I got sand in my eyes when Key kicked some at me (with a few glaring exceptions). And as much as I would have rather had a different ending, I was still happy with Key's ending. Seeing Tomoya together with his family again made feel all fuzzy inside (despite my logical side's best efforts). It's an anime that I don't expect to haunt me for years to come; rather, it was a well-told story with simple, clearly presented themes. Worth the time to watch, but not a masterpiece in my eyes. So, not the performance I expected, but executed well enough that I was satisfied.

9/10.

This is a very nice and well thought-out review but it's the first time I've heard someone say that Nagisa's death scene was rushed :heh: I actually thought that the length was just right, just watching Tomoya go into a state of denial and how he desperately kept talking to escape from the reality, even if it only was for a moment. The only thing that really kind of ruined it for me was the choice of sticking with that ending song, "Torch." All they had to do is play another depressing song of some sort and roll credits over the scene.

[Miyuki-ism]

I just stopped it before the ED because I knew that shotgun shot oh happiness would just come out of no where.

[XGeneral2000]

This is a very nice and well thought-out review but it's the first time I've heard someone say that Nagisa's death scene was rushed :heh: I actually thought that the length was just right, just watching Tomoya go into a state of denial and how he desperately kept talking to escape from the reality, even if it only was for a moment. The only thing that really kind of ruined it for me was the choice of sticking with that ending song, "Torch." All they had to do is play another depressing song of some sort and roll credits over the scene.

Well, I guess I found the transition into Nagisa's death a bit abrupt. Tomoya was kind of like "Woot! Baby! So cuute...wait, oh crap! You're dying!" Maybe it was just me. Then yeah, the ED was totally "lolwut." I was hoping for a different ED, but kept my finger on the pause button in the case Torch flew in.

[Archon_Wing]

Well, I guess I found the transition into Nagisa's death a bit abrupt. Tomoya was kind of like "Woot! Baby! So cuute...wait, oh crap! You're dying!" Maybe it was just me. Then yeah, the ED was totally "lolwut." I was hoping for a different ED, but kept my finger on the pause button in the case Torch flew in.

lol, I sorta felt that way. I liked the episodes immediately before and after much better. But I've gone off on Torch too much already.

[Archon_Wing]

The fight scene was pretty lame too. And Sunohara's arc was a joke. I prefer to think of of AS starting at episode 9 and deny the existence of those before.

The fight scene was obviously no Kara no Kyoukai and Yukine appearing at the end was a bit dumb, but I thought it was quick, looked nice and did the job. But then again most of the anime fights I've seen tend to be shonen constipation fests that span 2 billion episodes so your millage may vary. ;)

I'll just happen to disagree with you on the first part of AS, as I felt it served as a bridge from School Life to After Story as the series gradually takes a more serious turn.

[Haak]

The fight scene was obviously no Kara no Kyoukai and Yukine appearing at the end was a bit dumb, but I thought it was quick, looked nice and did the job. But then again most of the anime fights I've seen tend to be shonen constipation fests that span 2 billion episodes so your millage may vary. ;)

I'll just happen to disagree with you on the first part of AS, as I felt it served as a bridge from School Life to After Story as the series gradually takes a more serious turn.

I'm really into martial arts filsm and the like so I'm just holding high standards here (likely too high)

I can understand your second point too. I would've prefered the baseball episode and Misae with the yukine arc going into the first season and sunohara arc being left out all together. Then perhaps have a few episodes of Tomoya's and Nagisa's marriage and perhaps them arguing and breaking up at one point but getting back together. Something like that. Oh yeah, I would've also liked an episode of Tomoya doing absolutely everything he can save Ushio. Getting her into the hospital, hassling doctors, turning into a right state etc. For me he just accepted Ushio's illness far too easily. It reminded me of how Yuichi from Kanon accepted Makoto's mental deterrioration as something to the with magic without bothering to take to a freaking doctor first.

[Archon_Wing]

I'm really into martial arts filsm and the like so I'm just holding high standards here (likely too high)

Nah, not really. The fights in Clannad aren't gonna be on any best fights list anytime soon. But they fit ok in the series.

I can understand your second point too. I would've prefered the baseball episode and Misae with the yukine arc going into the first season and sunohara arc being left out all together.

Yea it does seem some of it would go with the first season more. Maybe they originally didn't plan for season 2? As for Sunohara's Arc, personally I liked it because it gives some closure to the character as in he slowly will evolve into less of a buffoon as well as give more insight on the nature of his relationships with Tomoya and Mei. Though notably that part does stretch the suspension of belief a bit as

The other two arcs, I think, were to bring up the supernatural aspects of the show more and give more hints about the imaginary world.

For me he just accepted Ushio's illness far too easily. It reminded me of how Yuichi from Kanon accepted Makoto's mental deterrioration as something to the with magic without bothering to take to a freaking doctor first.

Yea. I would say that's one of the major flaws in all of the Key stories that I've seen. It does seem a bit too convenient to advance the plot. I'd assume they'd do everything possible, but it doesn't come across like that.

[Haak]

Oops sorry. Typo there

What I meant to say was that, I would've prefered the baseball episode and Misae arc to stay in AS with the yukine arc going into the first season and sunohara arc being left out all together.

As for Sunohara. I would've liked him to get together with Tomoyo and then we could possibly have a few episodes or even a whole series dedicated to his relationship with her based on Tomoyo after.

[FhnuZoag]

You want Sunohara to go through the events of Tomoyo After?

Oooouch. Cruel...

I would have liked a happier ending with Sunohara, though, since AS sort of suggested he continued being a failure at everything, but without Tomoya around to support him. Oh well, that still leaves room for my mad Sunohara/Ushio shipping plans mwhahaha...

[Haak]

You want Sunohara to go through the events of Tomoyo After?

Oooouch. Cruel...
.


I don't actually know what happens in Tomoyo After.:heh:

I'm only assuming that it would still work if it were Sunohara and not Tomoya.

[Archon_Wing]

:D Tomoyo deserves better than that. Maybe Kyou, since the OVA actually had that. ;) Actually it's only gonna work with an outside character, since I'm just going to get tomatoes thrown at me regardless of whatever suggestion I'd make from the respective female characters' fans. :heh: Sorta like what I heard they did with Ryou (though this never happens in the anime, sadly)

I don't know about Tomoya After, but from what I've read it's probably more tragic than After Story.

I don't think Sunohara would continue being a failure, seems like he was on his way with a career in the later part of the story from what we last saw of him; Tomoya beating the crap out of him finally did something. He would still sometimes do idiotic stuff, but hey people take time to change.

[Miyuki-ism]

Yea, actually I sort of felt a little sorry for Sunohara when he got teased sometimes by Tomoya in the VN.

[kk2extreme]

after tomoyo and kyou after, can I have my fuuko after or kotomi after please?

those two would make fun ovas :D

[xKyserx]

I say Clannad deserves one of those epic claps where it starts off super slow but then gets more excited lol

seriously though i have never seen an anime done like Clannad
the story was so dynamic it almost blew my mind up lol
and i have to say i liked the ENTIRE THING, first season was great cuz
im really into that kinda mushy happy ending stuff

and 2nd season was even better cuz it was just a major plot twist lol
i mean the genre itself pretty much changed but i dont care cuz it turned out
awesome, a lot of good tearjerking moments that just make you wanna go back and watch it another time haha

I give this anime a 10 over all (i could be over exagerating but no one said i was an expert critic lmfao)
Animation Quality: 10
Voice Actors: 10
Script: epic 10
Adaptation from Game: game???
Editing: im clueless about this section lol

[17th_warrior]

I watched only the first season and 2 OVA , but I can definitely say that Clannad is awesome.
But Fuko arc, well, is was so boring and stretched out so I wanted to drop the series.
Though when I found out that AS is actually only Nagisa x Tomoya I decided not to continue with AS.
I literally hate Nagisa and I doubt that my opinion will change. Kyuo or Tomoyo suit Tomoyo much better.

[Haak]

Though when I found out that AS is actually only Nagisa x Tomoya I decided not to continue with AS.
I literally hate Nagisa and I doubt that my opinion will change. Kyuo or Tomoyo suit Tomoyo much better.

Trust me you'll feel differently if you watch AS.

I used to feel the same way. I thought Kyou or Tomoyo would be better for him (though I never hated Nagisa. i don't know how you can hate her), but I've longed since accepted now Tomoya loves Nagis and Nagisa loves him, so much so that watching the Tomoyo and Kyou ova's made me feel uncomfortable.

[17th_warrior]

That's why I don't want to watch AS because I don't want for my opinion to change. If they release Tomoyo AS I would watch it but not Nagisa AS.

[Gibber]

That's why I don't want to watch AS because I don't want for my opinion to change. If they release Tomoyo AS I would watch it but not Nagisa AS.

Can only hope for them to release Tomoyo After but it's probably not happening anytime soon/ever. There's always the VN if you just wanna see it though it's not translated but you should definitely watch AS either way.

[DeX-kun]

I watched only the first season and 2 OVA , but I can definitely say that Clannad is awesome.
But Fuko arc, well, is was so boring and stretched out so I wanted to drop the series.
Though when I found out that AS is actually only Nagisa x Tomoya I decided not to continue with AS.
I literally hate Nagisa and I doubt that my opinion will change. Kyuo or Tomoyo suit Tomoyo much better.

That's why I don't want to watch AS because I don't want for my opinion to change. If they release Tomoyo AS I would watch it but not Nagisa AS.

I don't know how you can hate Nagisa but hey, I'm speaking as a Nagisa fan so you don't have to listen to me :p. Although I think it's a shame that you don't want to watch After Story when it's the best part of the actual series. After Story demonstrates to us how important family can be to a person and it's the bulk of the plot so I don't see why you shouldn't watch it. You're really missing out.

When one hates a character, you actually want your opinion to change, at least that's the case for me. If I dislike a character but I know that person will be the one chosen, then I certainly want to see a development in their character that will change my opinion about them from bad to good (although it won't happen all the time.) Initially I wasn't a Nagisa fan, I actually thought she was kind of bland in the first season and when I realized that Tomoya was going to choose Nagisa, I easily accepted it because I didn't see any reason why he shouldn't.

After Story is amazing though, Nagisa's character has a development which I never expected (since I didn't play the VN) and this is where I fell in love with her character. Now whether or not you want to watch AS, is your choice but aside from their relationship, you're missing out on the most significant aspects of the plot.

[Proto]

Though when I found out that AS is actually only Nagisa x Tomoya I decided not to continue with AS.

If it changes your opinion in the slightest, AS more than being a Nagisa arc it's more of a Tomoya arc. The most important character in AS, and the one that receives the most development is Tomoya himself

[bladeofdarkness]

That's why I don't want to watch AS because I don't want for my opinion to change. If they release Tomoyo AS I would watch it but not Nagisa AS.

if you really intend not to watch it because you dont WANT to like nagisa
then thats your decision
your WRONG decision, but yours none the less

on the whole though, watching all of season 1 and not watching after story is like watching season 1 and quiting after fuko's arc ends
you miss the best part of the story by far

[17th_warrior]

Dex-kun
you convinced me to watch it.
Btw AS opening is awesome.

[Haak]

Hey Dex-Kun. (http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/Sephi2K7/Avatar/clannad11.gif)

[DeX-kun]

Dex-kun
you convinced me to watch it.
Btw AS opening is awesome.

Oh yes, and I forgot to mention the music. That opening song is my favorite :) But I'm glad that you're watching it, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Hey Dex-Kun. (http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/Sephi2K7/Avatar/clannad11.gif)

Great timing to use that gif; I must say :heh:

[Archon_Wing]

The really fast piano part at the end is something I like to listen to a lot. ;)

Anyhow, I suppose everyone "ships" but sometimes matches don't have to be perfect and should be given time to grow. After all, nothing really is perfect and I feel the only time to complain about these things when you have a sudden ass pull pairing. The best example of that for me was probaly a certain scifi show where it came out of literally nowhere in the last episode and almost seemed contemptuous.

But I will say that if you were looking for lots of romantic tension in Clannad, it's just not there in this anime since it becomes pretty clear that Nagisa is the "default" and any other possibility just gets demolished in episode 18 of the first season. This isn't good or bad-- I usually get annoyed at series where it remains ambiguous at the end either because the writers are too cowardly to do anything or they want to make sequels.

Then of course, we should really know what happened to everyone else though! -_- And not just in alternate universes.

And hey, I like Tomoyo better, but I don't actually like that TomoxTomo pairing that much. She's just too independent to be bogged down with these silly things, for now at least as she has much to accomplish :D Which is actually why I didn't like her borderline moeblob counterpart as much in the other world. ;)

[Akka]

Btw AS opening is awesome.
I cry everytime I see it :'(

BTW, I was someone who had quite a hard time with Nagisa, found her boring and bland, and I was completely blow away by AS, and found it even better than the first season - which I loved. So you definitely had a good idea to at least try.
Nagisa is much more likeable in this one.
But I will say that if you were looking for lots of romantic tension in Clannad, it's just not there in this anime since it becomes pretty clear that Nagisa is the "default" and any other possibility just gets demolished in episode 18 of the first season.
Well, actually it gets demolished in perhaps the fifteen first seconds of the show.
Come on, don't tell me anybody had any doubt that the first girl with all the flowing petals around was the One ?

[DeX-kun]

Well, actually it gets demolished in perhaps the fifteen first seconds of the show.
Come on, don't tell me anybody had any doubt that the first girl with all the flowing petals around was the One ?

Well the Gym Storage scene did begin to give me doubts :heh:

[Akka]

Well the Gym Storage scene did begin to give me doubts :heh:
We're talking about japanese shows. With very few exceptions, you can be sure that if something is going to happen between the hero and a girl and it's not the last episode, then that's a misunderstanding or a red herring.

[DeX-kun]

We're talking about japanese shows. With very few exceptions, you can be sure that if something is going to happen between the hero and a girl and it's not the last episode, then that's a misunderstanding or a red herring.

I was joking :p I was pretty sure that Nagisa was the "special" one from the beginning ;)

[Archon_Wing]

Well, actually it gets demolished in perhaps the fifteen first seconds of the show.
Come on, don't tell me anybody had any doubt that the first girl with all the flowing petals around was the One ?

Hey, hey petals are flying around everyone. :heh: But like I said, romantic ambiguity was never there. Episode 18 was just dropping the hammer on the bits.

However, it's kinda funny how the initial scene turned me off at first because I thought there was not gonna be any suspense in that area. :D And there really wasn't, but then again the show was never meant to be that.

[Akka]

I was joking :p I was pretty sure that Nagisa was the "special" one from the beginning ;)
I was in need of bitching about the overused cliché in anime where you nearly never see an actual relationship developping.
(though in fact Clannad is actually one of the few exception if we count AS, but bitching needs are bitching needs)

[DeX-kun]

I was in need of bitching about the overused cliché in anime where you nearly never see an actual relationship developping.
(though in fact Clannad is actually one of the few exception if we count AS, but bitching needs are bitching needs)

I can understand that but the problem is that whether we complain about it or not, we won't be able to change anything ;) That's why I'd rather just accept it unless a show is really bad, then I would complain and move on :heh:

[bladeofdarkness]

thats actually what makes after story so great
its one of the rare cases where the entire story is AFTER the main couple hooks up
several YEARS into it in fact

[Nosauz]

actually, it doesn't go that many years, deep, hes only worked as an electrician for a year when nagisa gets pregnant, and the time skip is after a pivotal moment, and your not really seeing those five years played out. But yea it's still an amazing series that I would come back to, if only they would do a nice proper routes for all the main girls that would be nice since it does tie into the story proper as well.

[Ithekro]

He still goes through three Decembers with her (Three large Dangos) after they start dating. Most shows would stop as soon as they are confirmed as a item with no chance of any of the other girls having a shot anymore. Shows like Toradora went just a little bit after the final hookup, but Clannad goes the full five miles beyond resolution and marriage. Up through pregnancy and starting to raise a family. That is about a light year beyond any harem-like storyline. And while most of the other girls vanish after they graduate from schools, they don't all go away completely.

[miroku2192]

First off...i want to curse [-meaning thank-] ALL of you who recommended that i watch season 2 -> Clannad After Story. I was a bit put off by the first season, though it packed a nice punch, i went into the first season expecting something like Kanon 2006. I didn't find it all that great, but it was still good...but i never got around to watching Clannad AS. Plus, the first two episodes of AS looked rather boring, so i thought it was going to be slice of life all 24 episodes...

Boy was I wrong. I got hooked after 3 episodes-ish...and finished this whole series in 2 days. I cried my heart out at episode 13(?) when okazaki asked nagisa to marry him and she was just like "hai"...absolutely beautiful. Then I cried even more in episode 16 with her death, I kept hoping she'd just stay awake and make it through...and episode 18 was even more epic and amazing...and really made me cry a lot. I didn't know i could cry so much, and this series was truly a great experience. Ushio's death scene was just as tragic, and the ending...was a well deserved one for okazaki who had gone through so much. Congrats Tomoya, you deserved it :P.

Anyway, it was a great series...i really loved the mix of humor, sadness, friendship, love, and the importance of family.

10/10. And this couldn't have possibly been accomplished without the help of the seiyuus who truly did an amazing job with the acting. I was very very impressed.

Again, i have to thank all of you who kept urging me to watch this season...yet at the same time im rather angry cuz i was so sad and teary for a while during episodes 16-22 until the end when...SECOND CHANCE YAY!

[coderlan]

I didn't really understand the last few episodes...Is Tomoya having a dream, that is; Nagisa dies, suffering, and Ushio dies after? IMO, the word 'dream' is actually the Illusionary world? and in the final episode, Tomoya wake up from that nightmare and miraculously returned back to the delivery of Ushio, Nagisa and ushio were safe after all....Am I correct?

Thus, it's a Perfect 10.

[DeX-kun]

First off...i want to curse [-meaning thank-] ALL of you who recommended that i watch season 2 -> Clannad After Story. I was a bit put off by the first season, though it packed a nice punch, i went into the first season expecting something like Kanon 2006. I didn't find it all that great, but it was still good...but i never got around to watching Clannad AS. Plus, the first two episodes of AS looked rather boring, so i thought it was going to be slice of life all 24 episodes...

Boy was I wrong. I got hooked after 3 episodes-ish...and finished this whole series in 2 days. I cried my heart out at episode 13(?) when okazaki asked nagisa to marry him and she was just like "hai"...absolutely beautiful. Then I cried even more in episode 16 with her death, I kept hoping she'd just stay awake and make it through...and episode 18 was even more epic and amazing...and really made me cry a lot. I didn't know i could cry so much, and this series was truly a great experience. Ushio's death scene was just as tragic, and the ending...was a well deserved one for okazaki who had gone through so much. Congrats Tomoya, you deserved it :P.

Anyway, it was a great series...i really loved the mix of humor, sadness, friendship, love, and the importance of family.

10/10. And this couldn't have possibly been accomplished without the help of the seiyuus who truly did an amazing job with the acting. I was very very impressed.

Again, i have to thank all of you who kept urging me to watch this season...yet at the same time im rather angry cuz i was so sad and teary for a while during episodes 16-22 until the end when...SECOND CHANCE YAY!

You're welcome :heh: The scene where Tomoya proposed to Nagisa was intense, I felt all that emotion built up there and it was powerful, also one of my favorite scenes because of how Nagisa handled everything, another reason why she's my favorite heroine :D Well the series does have that bitter sweet type of feeling and only because of episodes 16-21 but for the most part, it's a great feeling after finishing the whole series.

I didn't really understand the last few episodes...Is Tomoya having a dream, that is; Nagisa dies, suffering, and Ushio dies after? IMO, the word 'dream' is actually the Illusionary world? and in the final episode, Tomoya wake up from that nightmare and miraculously returned back to the delivery of Ushio, Nagisa and ushio were safe after all....Am I correct?

The illusionary world is an alternate universe that coexists with the world that we mostly saw. Everything that happened to Tomoya really did happen and the end result only occurred because Tomoya was able to exist in both worlds. His wishes were so strong that he recreated his world so that Nagisa was able to live through the delivery. It's a lot deeper than Tomoya just having a dream, but this is the best I can do to explain the ending in a condensed manner.

[coderlan]

Well, it really does explain genre having 'fantasy' in it.

[Akka]

AFAIK, the illusionary world is parallel to the real one, and is mainly an "energetic" counterpart (there is some of insight about it in the Kotomi arc in the first season, it's the world her parents studied about).
Roughly, let's say that "happiness" in our world translate into little wisp-lights (you can see them faintly in the real-world anime, and they are pointed out in the A.S. and, IIRC, thought as lighted snowflakes), which are energy in the illusionary world.

What happens in the story truly happens. And one thing is, Tomoya actually helped a lot of people finding happiness, hence created a lot of energy. And this means that, in the end, he accumulated enough energy that Ushio in the illusionary world (the girl) was able to rewind time and "refund" the life that Nagisa had borrowed to the city (when Akio bring baby-Nagisa into the hill and begged for her life, there was a "contract" between her and the city, kind of a life gift, which allowed her to live, but made her very frail of health, as we can see several times in the story).

So the energy allowed to get back in time, and to "give back" her "real life" to Nagisa rather than the "city-borrowed" one, hence her getting back a good health, which means that she now survives the birth of her daughter.
Tomoya has some faint memories of what happened in the erased timeline, as he has experienced it, showing it WAS really true.

In short, the power of happiness allowed him a second chance because of his good actions and a happy ending for all :D
All this comes, IIRC, from the gameplay concept of the game : you could have the "good ending" only by completing all the good endings from all the characters - each good ending gave you an "energy light", and when you had all of them they would unlock the final good ending. Kinda the same, they adapted a gameplay concept into a storyline.

Hope it did help, and that I didn't made too many errors (I haven't played the game, I'm basically summing up from memory what I read in several places, so I may be wrong in some places).

[coderlan]

^Wow, OMG, this answers all my confusing questions! Arigatou Gosaimasu...
but didn't read the whole though, probably tomorrow, it's midnight here.

[Khu]

goZAimasu.

Just had to point that out.

[Slobodan]

So it has finally come to this. As I'd watched this anime I felt compelled to review it, heck I've done it in my head many times over. Every time I had a new thought, realization that made it greater in my mind. The reason for doing this is most likely that Clannad succeeded in amplifying every single story arc, making it feel grand, perfect and complete. It was around halfway into After Story that I'd realized I am in way over my head. This does not deserve to be dissected and reviewed like some faulty piece of garbage. No sir.

Clannad has grown on me more than I ever thought possible when I played that first episode. Sakura trees, overdramatic (though fabulous) music, deep thoughts, cynical male protagonist right at the start of the anime? I knew it was really popular and loved, but back then I thought I knew just why and my presumptions weren't bright at all.
"I realize why some people might like this stuff but me? Nah...this is too corny for me...oh well, now that I've started, I'll give it a shot with a few more episodes."
But how the hell could I have known?

It's a 10, the biggest freakin' 10 I've ever given to anything in my entire life. This is what animes are basically all about. Granted, there are animes that are different, unusual and branch out pretty far from their origin. But essentially what makes them anime, not cartoons or tv shows, a medium that has attracted so many people lately is more or less the same. And Clannad is a conventional anime in that regard. Except it took all that emotion, tranquil slice-of-lifeness, seemingly naive but in fact deep story and made it feel REAL. Every character, every moment, everything that might have put me off at first - though it seemed bland at times - has converted into a great memory, a profound feeling of love. Clannad has stripped off the defense mechanisms I have implanted into my brain as I grew up, thinking I have toughened up, grown smarter, more experienced, when in reality all I did was block off those simple, yet beautiful things and emotions that make life. Because it was easier that way, it left me less vulnerable, rid of any great expectations, making it harder for me to get hurt.

Friendship, falling-in-love, the simple quirks and talents that make us special, the dreams of our childhood and adolescence, all that seems to be labeled as a stupid ideal or taboo today. Should we trivialize those things, take them for granted and treat those moments as such? (This is exactly what Ryou was talking about in Kyou's arc, Alernate World episode) No, instead we should hold them as precious memories, even though they might not be "Clannad" for everyone. I was a bit like Nagisa in those years and I regret what I have missed. When I think about it, those years will always hold a special place in my heart even though my childhood and adolescence was short of practically any happy moments. If I had a chance to redo things, I definitely would have acted more like Tomoya, I would've stayed true to some things even when I was ridiculed and insulted by others.

Clannad is all too simple. If I tried to describe it, I certainly wouldn't do it any justice. Every aspect of it is combined in a perfect way to create a masterpiece, making it all seem believable. I cried plenty of times, I smiled like I haven't since childhood (I mean those truly happy, altruistic, empathic smiles) because the characters felt completely real. No real way to describe it other than watch it; this is what makes animes great - to an outsider all this would seem pathetic but rather than using complex dialogues or situations to build up characters and explain their morality like in the real movies or TV shows, in animes it's done in a way that's almost magical. Not only that, this anime makes you rethink your life priorities and thus changes it. Yes, this anime is life-changing.

There, my impression of Clannad. It's the best thing I've watched in my life. Rewatching an anime seemed like a ridiculous thing to do when there are so many good ones around, but I am positive I will rewatch Clannad one day and rejoice as I have on my first watching.

[DeX-kun]

So it has finally come to this. As I'd watched this anime I felt compelled to review it, heck I've done it in my head many times over. Every time I had a new thought, realization that made it greater in my mind. The reason for doing this is most likely that Clannad succeeded in amplifying every single story arc, making it feel grand, perfect and complete. It was around halfway into After Story that I'd realized I am in way over my head. This does not deserve to be dissected and reviewed like some faulty piece of garbage. No sir.

Clannad has grown on me more than I ever thought possible when I played that first episode. Sakura trees, overdramatic (though fabulous) music, deep thoughts, cynical male protagonist right at the start of the anime? I knew it was really popular and loved, but back then I thought I knew just why and my presumptions weren't bright at all.
"I realize why some people might like this stuff but me? Nah...this is too corny for me...oh well, now that I've started, I'll give it a shot with a few more episodes."
But how the hell could I have known?

It's a 10, the biggest freakin' 10 I've ever given to anything in my entire life. This is what animes are basically all about. Granted, there are animes that are different, unusual and branch out pretty far from their origin. But essentially what makes them anime, not cartoons or tv shows, a medium that has attracted so many people lately is more or less the same. And Clannad is a conventional anime in that regard. Except it took all that emotion, tranquil slice-of-lifeness, seemingly naive but in fact deep story and made it feel REAL. Every character, every moment, everything that might have put me off at first - though it seemed bland at times - has converted into a great memory, a profound feeling of love. Clannad has stripped off the defense mechanisms I have implanted into my brain as I grew up, thinking I have toughened up, grown smarter, more experienced, when in reality all I did was block off those simple, yet beautiful things and emotions that make life. Because it was easier that way, it left me less vulnerable, rid of any great expectations, making it harder for me to get hurt.

Friendship, falling-in-love, the simple quirks and talents that make us special, the dreams of our childhood and adolescence, all that seems to be labeled as a stupid ideal or taboo today. Should we trivialize those things, take them for granted and treat those moments as such? (This is exactly what Ryou was talking about in Kyou's arc, Alernate World episode) No, instead we should hold them as precious memories, even though they might not be "Clannad" for everyone. I was a bit like Nagisa in those years and I regret what I have missed. When I think about it, those years will always hold a special place in my heart even though my childhood and adolescence was short of practically any happy moments. If I had a chance to redo things, I definitely would have acted more like Tomoya, I would've stay true to some things even when I was ridiculed and insulted by others.

Clannad is all too simple. If I tried to describe it, I certainly wouldn't do it any justice. Every aspect of it is combined in a perfect way to create a masterpiece, making it all seem believable. I cried plenty of times, I smiled like I haven't since childhood (I mean those truly happy, altruistic, emphatic smiles) because the characters felt completely real. No real way to describe it other than watch it; this is what makes animes great - to an outsider all this would seem pathetic but rather than using complex dialogues or situations to build up characters and explain their morality like in the real movies or TV shows, in animes it's done in a way that's almost magical. Not only that, this anime makes you rethink your life priorities and thus changes it. Yes, this anime is life-changing.

There, my impression of Clannad. It's the best thing I've watched in my life. Rewatching an anime seemed like a ridiculous thing to do when there are so many good ones around, but I am positive I will rewatch Clannad one day and rejoice as I have on my first watching.

This was a wonderful review. Most people like to go with statistics and numbers and also compare similar aspects of this anime with overused notions that have been seen before but I believe one should treat each anime as it is (i.e. - Unless it's obvious an anime is trying to receive attention by using cliche themes.) Clannad on it's own shouldn't be reviewed on numbers alone, but by what it does to you, the emotional reactions and all the thoughts that are provoked by this anime. Just as you, I began watching this anime but was very skeptical about it because it was labeled as a harem where I was watching it (and wrongfully so.)

In my opinion, Clannad is simply an anime that must be experienced.

[Slobodan]

This was a wonderful review. Most people like to go with statistics and numbers and also compare similar aspects of this anime with overused notions that have been seen before but I believe one should treat each anime as it is (i.e. - Unless it's obvious an anime is trying to receive attention by using cliche themes.) Clannad on it's own shouldn't be reviewed on numbers alone, but by what it does to you, the emotional reactions and all the thoughts that are provoked by this anime. Just as you, I began watching this anime but was very skeptical about it because it was labeled as a harem where I was watching it (and wrongfully so.)

In my opinion, Clannad is simply an anime that must be experienced.

Thank you DeX-kun, for the kind words. Indeed, rating the animation, music, story, characters etc. to form a final verdict and then trying to write a generic review just wouldn't be right.

Now that I think about it my experience of watching Clannad and the way I gradually started realizing how gorgeous that simplicity is reflects Okazaki Tomoya's slowly changing mindset. And is there a better way to point this out than by comparing his stance towards Dangos in the beginning and the end of the anime? I'll never forget his expression when Nagisa started talking about them and singing that song for the first time - I could feel his utter despair :heh:. This is probably how most people, including myself, felt when they started watching the anime.

[DeX-kun]

Thank you DeX-kun, for the kind words. Indeed, rating the animation, music, story, characters etc. to form a final verdict and then trying to write a generic review just wouldn't be right.

Now that I think about it my experience of watching Clannad and the way I gradually started realizing how gorgeous that simplicity is reflects Okazaki Tomoya's slowly changing mindset. And is there a better way to point this out than by comparing his stance towards Dangos in the beginning and the end of the anime? I'll never forget his expression when Nagisa started talking about them and singing that song for the first time - I could feel his utter despair :heh:. This is probably how most people, including myself, felt when they started watching the anime.

You're welcome.

To be honest though, I thought Nagisa singing that song was cute :heh: But it was hilarious looking at Tomoya's reaction to her singing that song. Tomoya's slow and well paced development was the highlight of this series. Just like you said, initially Tomoya had this weird reaction to the "Dango" song but as the series progressed and his feelings changed, he grew to love that song deeply.

In the beginning of the series, Tomoya was disgusted by the "Dango" song. In the middle of the series, Tomoya kind of gets a happy feeling from hearing Nagisa sing the "Dango" song while making him some tea :heh: Then finally, Tomoya cries himself to sleep as he sings "Dango" as a lullaby to Ushio. Honestly, I would have never predicted that Tomoya could end up as the person he was at the end of the series, seeing how conflicted he was in the beginning.

Tomoya and Nagisa are my favorite couple (obviously :D) but at the same time, they are my favorite individual characters for the male lead and female lead and with good reason, as shown in the anime.

[Slobodan]

Honestly, I would have never predicted that Tomoya could end up as the person he was at the end of the series, seeing how conflicted he was in the beginning.

And all that didn't look awkward, we all saw him change in the most natural way. I can't put my finger on what is that which makes these characters so convincing...

Tomoya and Nagisa are my favorite couple (obviously :D) but at the same time, they are my favorite individual characters for the male lead and female lead and with good reason, as shown in the anime.
They are my favorite couple (and characters) as well, by the end of the show I was totally getting them. Nagisa, a shy, insecure and a bit boring (as heartless as it may have been of me to think that) at first glance - turned out to be the most gentle, good-natured and exceptional person on Earth. Tomoya, the seemingly apathetic screw-up is actually one with a very keen sense of morality and by the end matures into just as good of a person as Nagisa not afraid to dig into those, sometimes painful feelings when need arises. Together they're perfect.

[Archon_Wing]

bsla: Nice review, I agree with a lot with what you said. Sometimes it's not fun to review a series with a pen and notepad while watching it. :heh:

As I said in my initial post in this thread, the show feels like more a modern fairy tale. The untold optimism in the story sorta clashes with the somewhat cynical attitude many forms of media have gotten. Darker and edgier, more gritty and realistic. Those things can be fun and involving too. But it's not always better, because they have gotten cliche too. Hell, calling something cliche is cliche. :D

But Clannad goes back towards the optimistic side but with more depth and honesty. It doesn't pretend to be anything it's not or claim to teach any lessons. It's just what it is.

I rewatched the last part of the first season (episode 22) and found this dialogue to be hilarious:

Basically, at the end Tomoya inquires Nagisa about the end of the story and then Nagisa says they sing the Dango song. Then Tomoya in disbelief, was like "Everyone was clapping but there was a strange air in the Auditorium in the end. ... It like ruined all the emotional things that built up".

After watching this scene and all the controversy over the ending, I laughed pretty hard. I'm quite sure Tomoya thinks much differently about the ending by the end of After Story. :D

[Slobodan]

bsla: Nice review, I agree with a lot with what you said. Sometimes it's not fun to review a series with a pen and notepad while watching it. :heh:

As I said in my initial post in this thread, the show feels like more a modern fairy tale. The untold optimism in the story sorta clashes with the somewhat cynical attitude many forms of media have gotten. Darker and edgier, more gritty and realistic. Those things can be fun and involving too. But it's not always better, because they have gotten cliche too. Hell, calling something cliche is cliche. :D

But Clannad goes back towards the optimistic side but with more depth and honesty. It doesn't pretend to be anything it's not or claim to teach any lessons. It's just what it is.


My point exactly, it's like we come with an in-built "defense mechanism" against pure, honest and optimistic things, they have become cliche. But just as the Hollywood made them cliche it made the alternative to it that you've mentioned cliche as well. Honestly I have enjoyed this anime so much after years of watching TV shows on Fox and crappy blockbuster movies, it was like an elixir of youth for my soul. :D

[Jimmy C]

Basically, at the end Tomoya inquires Nagisa about the end of the story and then Nagisa says they sing the Dango song. Then Tomoya in disbelief, was like "Everyone was clapping but there was a strange air in the Auditorium in the end. ... It like ruined all the emotional things that built up".

It was only a few weeks ago on a rewatch of season 1, that I realized that they actually told the viewers how the Imaginary World segment was going to end with that scene. And they did it in such a way that you wouldn't believe it unless you already knew how the story was going to end!

[DeX-kun]

It was only a few weeks ago on a rewatch of season 1, that I realized that they actually told the viewers how the Imaginary World segment was going to end with that scene. And they did it in such a way that you wouldn't believe it unless you already knew how the story was going to end!

This my friend, is what you call subtle foreshadowing :heh:

[17th_warrior]

Watched the AS and don't regret it at all. I can even say that I admire Nagisa and clearly understand why Okazaki had chosen her. Though he could have had very good chances with Kyou and Tomoyo.
Perfect 10/10
I even shed some tears especially when Okazaki was biding farewell with his dad, that scene struck me a lot.
Complete satisfactory from the series and now I'm going to play Tomoyo's and Yukine's routes( I completed Kotomi's and Fujibayshi routes already).

Thanks Dex-kun!

[Khu]

Nagisa was always gonna be, the 'one', I guess. Most probably because you're intro'ed to her first, but also she was also the first that he started caring about. Or maybe she was just too damn cute. :P

[Chami-sensei]

Clannad is one of my favourite animes. Clannad was a good watch, I enjoyed each episode and always egerly awaited the next one. To me though AS was Clannads claim to fame and is what made it stick in my mind as a perfect series. I would give the first season a 8/10 since it was good but some arc ends were a bit weak. AS is easily worth 10/10 but some of the early eps dragged it down a bit.

Still I would recommend Clannad to anyone.

[coderlan]

This anime is so annoying as in 'I CANNOT STOP WATCHING IT'. I'm rewatching it, and of course I would recommend this to everyone who has good understanding about the genre.

[DeX-kun]

Thanks Dex-kun!

You're welcome ;)

Clannad is one of my favourite animes. Clannad was a good watch, I enjoyed each episode and always egerly awaited the next one. To me though AS was Clannads claim to fame and is what made it stick in my mind as a perfect series. I would give the first season a 8/10 since it was good but some arc ends were a bit weak. AS is easily worth 10/10 but some of the early eps dragged it down a bit.

Still I would recommend Clannad to anyone.

We share similar opinions. The first season was good and it made me laugh plenty of times along with a couple of dramatic moments but after watching After Story, you can feel the difference between both seasons. Even so, you can't have After Story without the first season since it set up everything that had to do with the illusionary world and explains quite a bit about the existence of it.

[17th_warrior]

Don't know about season 1. I gave it 9/10 just because Fuko's arc was too dragged on, excluding it's pure 10/10.
1 season - more comedy etc
2 season - drama, well you know
And there's practically no other characters like Tomoyo(especially her) and Kotomi in 2 season which I adore.

[Archon_Wing]

And there's practically no other characters like Tomoyo(especially her) and Kotomi in 2 season which I adore.

That's one thing I didn't like about After Story, in that they didn't give any kind of meaningful resolution to the other characters. We know Kyou is a teacher, but couldn't they have had a couple of more sentences about what happened? Do the rest get with anyone? Would it kill them to come up with more male characters their age? :heh: Understandably, the source material probably didn't bother either, but it's still annoying. But it'd just be nice to wrap everything up.

Despite that, it's still my 2nd favorite anime. Not that my favorite, Higurashi, is anywhere near perfect either. :D In any case, I will still maintain Clannad as 10 (perhaps 9 for the first season), since I don't believe in perfection but it cuts damned near close. It's all relative to me, anyways. And I've only given out 10s about twice if you don't consider separate seasons to be separate series, so it definitely has a high place for me. I just have an annoying tendency to tear into everything, including shows I like. :p

Edit: Why was there no overall rating thread for season 1?

[Miyuki-ism]

I sort of wish I knew a little more of what the hell Kotomi did after.

[Lilith]

I regret missing the past discussion threads.

I rated it 8. The negatives are:
-Sometimes the comedy was repeated and out of place. Ruined the mood.
-I don't mind the fantasy element, but I would've preferred having the light orbs cure Nagisa from a fatal coma or something rather than rewinding events, which made the last 5 episodes "didn't happen"... or something.
-I really hate the ending song "Torch". I will never forget how dumbfounded I was when I heard it after Nagisa's death in Ep. 16. Horrible.

But I love CLANNAD, I really enjoyed it. Tomoya made me cry so much, it's amazing how attached I became to him. Tomoya x Nagisa OTP! >_<

[DeX-kun]

I regret missing the past discussion threads.

I rated it 8. The negatives are:
-Sometimes the comedy was repeated and out of place. Ruined the mood.
-I don't mind the fantasy element, but I would've preferred having the light orbs cure Nagisa from a fatal coma or something rather than rewinding events, which made the last 5 episodes "didn't happen"... or something.
-I really hate the ending song "Torch". I will never forget how dumbfounded I was when I heard it after Nagisa's death in Ep. 16. Horrible.

But I love CLANNAD, I really enjoyed it. Tomoya made me cry so much, it's amazing how attached I became to him. Tomoya x Nagisa OTP! >_<

I guess you did miss a lot of discussions that went on earlier because this was one of the major topics. Just to inform you, all of what we saw happened, a lot of people make the mistake of assuming that none of the tragic events happened when the final episode clearly states that Tomoya has memories of it. Well the comedy was good for me and I'm not sure where it was out of place but I guess it depends on the person.

I completely agree with your comment about Torch, horrible decision to leave that ED during some of the most emotionally intense episodes.

[Lilith]

when the final episode clearly states that Tomoya has memories of it.
Thanks, I was too emotional to pay attention to this important detail in episode 24: "I think it really did happen".

After spedning time reading the topics, it does make sense now. But still, I hoped the second chance was something else other than rewinding events and re-livings with different circumstances.

Sorry for beating a dead horse. :heh: I'll move along and continue dwelling in the aftermath of CLANNAD. <3

[Khu]

Haha.

In the VN, it makes a whole lot more sense.

The whole point of the orbs, functionally, was obviously to provide replayability. The After Story part of the VN does not unlock until you've finished all the School Life routes. Once you get to the end of After Story (first playthrough) you are told about these lights and that you should collect them.

Story wise though, both worlds are much more integrated. The whole connection is made very clearly; something which I think the anime missed until Yukine's arc, when Tomoya picks up the orb and Yukine explains the legend. The Illusionary World in the VN, however, intertwines with only Nagisa's route; you do not have it in any other route. This automatically makes Nagisa 'special'. Yes, it is partly Nagisa fanboy-ism, but the Illusionary World is almost a Nagisa exclusive (if you count Yukine's explanation of the town legend). Although others come up with ideas ABOUT the illusionary world, the only route where you consistently throughout the game encounter it is Nagisa's.

[Khu]

Blargh.

I'ma double post cos I think it's about damn time I write something about this.

Anyway.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Haha. Clannad.

It was the first anime I actually watched seriously.

The only other anime I had ever finished at that time was Eureka Seven, and even that was a stretch for me. I didn't find it that compelling after a while.

But this...this, I could use to write essay after essay about for English. It teaches you so much, it uses so much at its disposal so well that it doesn't come off as plot device, but as something that feels right for the characters. The emotional intensity, although slightly lessened from the VN, feel EXACTLY the same as the VN anyway. (Weird, I know, deal. :P)
The pacing that allowed the emotional attatchment to the main characters was very well done; everything happened as it sohuld have - either sudden or smoothly, it didn't matter. Nagisa's death scene in the VN was already heartbreaking; in the anime, animated, with voices, just made it so much harder.

The story as well, is something you can relate to. It teaches you that everyone needs someone else to rely upon, no matter what. From Tomoya needing Nagisa and the others to resolve his problems (and vice versa), to Ushio needed her papa (T___T), this lesson resounded throughout the series.

Also one more thing: NAGISA IS DAMN CUTE.

NAGISA IS ALSO DAMN WELL THE BEST MATCH FOR TOMOYA.

SCREW YOU KYOUxTOMOYA AND TOMOYOxTOMOYA SHIPPERS.

NAGISAxTOMOYA FOR LIFE.

Why?

They helped each other grow.

Hell, I've played some of Tomoyo After, and I'm just not seeing the same growth between the two.

And from what I've read from reviews and things, it doesn't seem that way either.

Tomoya was cynical, sarcastic, yet kind.
He became caring, wise, content with life, AND kind.
Without Nagisa, I doubt any of the changes in him would have arisen.

Hell, in Tomoyo After, even from playing the Tomoyo arc in the VN, it just doesn't resonate. Perhaps it's the H that doesn't make it seem like emotional love (even though it is), but Tomoyo and Kyou just don't have that...positive outlook on life like Nagisa. Both of them got depressed; but neither of them picked themselves up without Tomoya. Nagisa got depressed, she got picked up by Tomoya, THEN resolved never to get that depressed again. It is that determination to get through life no matter what, from her courage-gaining "Anpan!" to her resolve to never cry again, that is really why, Tomoya x Nagisa forever.

And quickly; Animation/Voice Acting/whatever else: Very well executed. Scripting for some arcs could have done better, especially Sunohara or Yukine arc, those came out rather badly. Also they stopped the Nagisa and Tomoya love story JUST for 2 arcs, which is stark odd, because you can't expect even Nagisa and Tomoya to put their love on hold indefinitely just for that. (well, actually you can, but still...it's kind of weird.)

Also, WHERE IS THE TOMOYA AND NAGISA KISS! IT WAS IN THE FRAKKING VN GIVE ME MY ANIMATED KISS!

Overall: 10/10. It's what got me into anime for good.

Oh crap and about Torch: Yes it was a bad choice for some eps.

However, Chiisana Tenohira was only EVER played at the end of the VN and I PREFER it to be at the very end, rather than at the end of each episode.

Could they have made a better ED? Probably. There's a lyric'ed Shining in the Sky ffs. They should have used that, simply as an uplifting, yet kind of sad, ending for AS.

[Slobodan]

About that thing you said, how it got you into anime for good - I can totally relate to that. Before watching Clannad I had watched only two animes, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya and Dragonball Z (in my teenage years). Now yes, at the time I had already decided to make anime a sort of a hobby because I'm a sucker for quality animation and the whole japanese culture/humor/narration style was pretty amusing and new. But honestly, I thought it was only a matter of time before that started to bore me.

Clannad made me realize just how high animes can soar. Of course, there's a lot of junk out there as well but you know, there's stuff like that in every type of art. Not every song or book or painting is good right? When I hear people dismiss animes as something only emos/losers watch to bathe in their misery it's just annoying as hell.

Uh anyway, this post was rather a digression from the topic, I simply wanted to share some admiration for Clannad.

[Archon_Wing]

Also one more thing: NAGISA IS DAMN CUTE.

NAGISA IS ALSO DAMN WELL THE BEST MATCH FOR TOMOYA.

SCREW YOU KYOUxTOMOYA AND TOMOYOxTOMOYA SHIPPERS.

NAGISAxTOMOYA FOR LIFE.

Why?

They helped each other grow.

Hell, I've played some of Tomoyo After, and I'm just not seeing the same growth between the two.

And from what I've read from reviews and things, it doesn't seem that way either.

Tomoya was cynical, sarcastic, yet kind.
He became caring, wise, content with life, AND kind.
Without Nagisa, I doubt any of the changes in him would have arisen.

Hey, hey! :D While I agree that a lot of the things that make Clannad good aren't possible without Nagisa, I will have to say a few things. :p

Hell, in Tomoyo After, even from playing the Tomoyo arc in the VN, it just doesn't resonate. Perhaps it's the H that doesn't make it seem like emotional love (even though it is), but Tomoyo and Kyou just don't have that...positive outlook on life like Nagisa. Both of them got depressed; but neither of them picked themselves up without Tomoya. Nagisa got depressed, she got picked up by Tomoya, THEN resolved never to get that depressed again. It is that determination to get through life no matter what, from her courage-gaining "Anpan!" to her resolve to never cry again, that is really why, Tomoya x Nagisa forever.

I've never played the visual novels, but from what I gathered from Tomoyo's extra episode, she was the one that was picking Tomoya up. From the main series, it doesn't really seem like that kind of depression would slow her down. Understandably, the anime can't show any romance between the two, but Tomoyo's more like "ah ok" while Kyou and Ryou are BAWWWW lol.

You could argue that Tomoyo doesn't need Tomoya as much, which is really an argument both for and against.

You also can't ignore the bond between Tomoya and Kotomi. Despite the lack of romance in that arc, I can still tell. It the end it is simply diffrent. Of course, I won't argue that Nagisa's story is overall superior to the others but if anything Clannad has it that nothing is really left up to fate. You can make something out of any situation.


Also, WHERE IS THE TOMOYA AND NAGISA KISS! IT WAS IN THE FRAKKING VN GIVE ME MY ANIMATED KISS!

Apparently, kisses don't exist in this world :D But yea, what was up with that?

[Khu]

I've never played the visual novels, but from what I gathered from Tomoyo's extra episode, she was the one that was picking Tomoya up. From the main series, it doesn't really seem like that kind of depression would slow her down. Understandably, the anime can't show any romance between the two, but Tomoyo's more like "ah ok" while Kyou and Ryou are BAWWWW lol.

Tomoyo never showed any romantic interest in Tomoya in the main series. As evidenced by an exchange with Sunohara:

Sunohara: "You're not really interested in Okazaki, are you?"
Tomoyo: "No, I do not feel I am leaning that way. However, this emotion could be described as interested."

Now you can't ignore the last part, but I think that was more out of pity/disgust for Tomoya's ways.

You could argue that Tomoyo doesn't need Tomoya as much, which is really an argument both for and against.

Well she doesn't need him so much as she has her own way forward, but then she also needs him fro emotional support. So both sides twill ignore that. :D

You also can't ignore the bond between Tomoya and Kotomi. Despite the lack of romance in that arc, I can still tell. It the end it is simply diffrent. Of course, I won't argue that Nagisa's story is overall superior to the others but if anything Clannad has it that nothing is really left up to fate. You can make something out of any situation.

Well, Kotomi doesn't really make any emotional impact apart from making Tomoya D'AWW, and remember some childhood memories. Now I'm not trying to belittle the Kotomi arc, but what did it really do to Tomoya? If you think of it that way, he just regained a friend he'll probably have forever. Which isn't saying that much since he'll have all of them as friends forever I guess. I guess the ending for Kotomi's arc, the difference would be that she was probably the most tragic of all; all of them had to work together to make her realise what the world was about (and not just her father's theory). The letter and things from her parents were the icing on the cake.

And it's not that Nagisa's story that's SUPERIOR, as such, it's just that the two work together so much for other people, and then for each other. Also it's quite a bit longer. Perhaps if we'd seen more with each heroine?

Apparently, kisses don't exist in this world :D But yea, what was up with that?

Yeah SURE they don't exist. How the fuck did they get the mood to damn well procreate ==" (no pun intended, just realised)

[Archon_Wing]

Tomoyo never showed any romantic interest in Tomoya in the main series. As evidenced by an exchange with Sunohara:

Sunohara: "You're not really interested in Okazaki, are you?"
Tomoyo: "No, I do not feel I am leaning that way. However, this emotion could be described as interested."

Now you can't ignore the last part, but I think that was more out of pity/disgust for Tomoya's ways.

Hmm, Tomoyo also said to Nagisa "I'm glad it was you" Maybe it was just out of happiness for them, but I just wasn't that sure when i watched it.

But anyhow, I'm not much of a "shipper". I like Tomoyo better, but I think Tomoya and Nagisa are a better couple.

Well, Kotomi doesn't really make any emotional impact apart from making Tomoya D'AWW, and remember some childhood memories. Now I'm not trying to belittle the Kotomi arc, but what did it really do to Tomoya? If you think of it that way, he just regained a friend he'll probably have forever. Which isn't saying that much since he'll have all of them as friends forever I guess.

I don't know. To me, he saved her. It was a start of him not just thinking of himself and how the world sucks, but to live for others too. This development started in the beginning of the series, but it really starts to show here.

And it's not that Nagisa's story that's SUPERIOR, as such, it's just that the two work together so much for other people, and then for each other. Also it's quite a bit longer. Perhaps if we'd seen more with each heroine?

IMO, it's superior because well, there aren't that many romances that show them getting together, getting married, and having a child. And going in these things in depth. It's just so much more involving then many other romantic relationships in any form of media. It's true that if the cast members were given that kind of spotlight it'd be different, but Nagisa and Tomoya's relationship is what defines the series to me.