[Anime] Umineko - Spoilers & Expectations (for experienced VN readers only)

[MarthX]

I think the next episode will end with the first twilight ending.

[Ssol]

I think it will end when when Kinzo walks through the door and all the adults are shocked.

[Revelation]

Sorry for asking (I hope it isn't against the rules :uhoh:) But where does one watch the previews before they make it on to youtoube, ect.? I try to click on the animate TV link on the main website to watch it like I used to, but it seems to go to a blank page on my computer.

[Escargotage]

http://anime.biglobe.ne.jp/movie/25/2590/2590-821-1000.asx

Episode 21's preview. :3

Looks like we'll be getting the scene where Ange kills the stakes again... for some reason.

ALSO DO WANT KASUMI'S RAEPFACE.

[Ithekro]

Oh god...Minorin~.

Stakes glomp attack. (ass-chans in action)

(also bunnies...and completion of flashback scene which was "skipped" last episode)

[Ssol]

Ah, so they are doing "My World". Good to know :)

[Marion]

Kasumi scares me a little ;A;

but holy crap rosa looks crazy angry. Looks like best mom ever might be done with justice.

[TsundereCake]

Sakutarou is badass in this preview oAo

[ameskitty]

http://anime.biglobe.ne.jp/movie/25/2590/2590-821-1000.asx

Episode 21's preview. :3

Looks like we'll be getting the scene where Ange kills the stakes again... for some reason.

ALSO DO WANT KASUMI'S RAEPFACE.

Oh, thank goodness :D. It really was just a timeline-clearing-up move on the part of DEEN. A really awkward move, maybe, but it works.

[June 1983]

Yay! We will get the full bullying scene after all! So excited.

The scene where Ange reads aloud her "letter of apology" to those nasty girls is just so amazing. Ugh. That's why I love EP 4. It's so freaking emotionally intense.

edit: And I mentioned it in the ep 20 thread, but I didn't think the flashback was awkward or out of place at all. It helped make things a little easier to understand for the anime-viewers, and it also served as a really good transition from a magic scene to a real world 1998 scene. Good transitions were seriously lacking ep 19, and they did a much better job of it in 20.

edit: Youtube link --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al69onGwz18

Yay we're gonna get some Kasumi scenes!

AND SIESTA BUNNIES! Though they look un-siesta enough that I don't think the anime-viewers will make the connection. I have to admit I'm so slow I didn't make the connection either when I read the VN lol

[TheForsaken]

Is it just me or those rabbits look like ... male :uhoh:

[MarthX]

Male and female rabbits look different? Beside the obvious.

[Ithekro]

I think its the clothes.

[Marion]

I think it's fine. Most VN players probably wouldn't have gotten it either if the TIPs didn't mention 556 played a trumpet.

It looks like they're going to try and get through most of the Ange flashbacks in one go, rather than put them in later episodes (well besides the entire Ange summoning the stakes to attack Kasumi's goons, since that really won't make sense put in earlier)

Is the window at the end of the preview one from Rokkenjima? If so we might actually get to the start of the 1st twilight by the end of that episode.

[MeoTwister5]

I may need to eat my words in the episode 20 thread. Looks like episode 21 will show the complete forms of the Ange scenes that were either abridged or alluded to in episode 20 that I personally felt should have been shown.

[HigurashinoUmineko]

I really want the translation for this preview! All I could hear was "She's nine and all she says is u-u--u--" THats what i think hes saying. He's awesome in this lol

[Ithekro]

Its Minorin...she's usually awesome.

[HigurashinoUmineko]

Good point...

[Neofio3]

Male and female rabbits look different? Beside the obvious.

It would have been nice if it were made more obvious in the adaptation. Unlike VN readers, anime viewers have absolutely no additional information/tips to go by. Dressing the rabbits like the the siestas would satisfy as a hint replacement, in that case.

[Ithekro]

Maria's mind is weird anyway.

[Volcanic]

Oh my god Sakutaro hnnnnnnng

WHATEVER I'M GONNA LOVE THIS EPISODE. evil!Kasumi, bestmotherever!Rosa, more stakes-molesting glomping-Sakutaro, (I love how Maria just sits there, haha) and the scene DEEN skipped last episode. Hooray!

[Workworkwork]

Come to think of it, didn't Ange remember destroying the stakes before it went to "My World" ?

Hope Rosa looks eviler for when she actually kills Sakutarou. Kind of like Maria's creepy faces, actually. Those would work.

[Geekodot]

Oh yeah, I thought the Ange denying the stakes scene would be cut because of the flashback in episode 20, so I was really happy when I saw the preview ^^

[Qilin]

A short question before I fade back into the shadows.

Will this anime last for 24 or 26 episodes?
A lot of people seem to be saying that there will be 26 episodes, but a quick look at Umineko's ANN page says that there will be 24 episodes.

Which is correct?

[Jan-Poo]

there are 13 dvd announced and so far they include 2 episodes each. Also logic dictates that there will be 6 more episodes considering the current pacing.

[Qilin]

Oh, that explains it. Thanks a lot.

It's not yet 100% certain, but I do hope for 26-episode series.
I want them to keep the witches tea party as intact as possible. I won't forgive them if they mess up Bern's chance to shine...

[Workworkwork]

Oh, that explains it. Thanks a lot.

It's not yet 100% certain, but I do hope for 26-episode series.
I want them to keep the witches tea party as intact as possible. I won't forgive them if they mess up Bern's chance to shine...

Just like all of Lambda's chances to shine?:(

[Escargotage]

Just like all of Lambda's chances to shine?:(

Or Rosa's chance to shine? :(

In all seriousness though, I think next episode will cover My World, Sakutaro, To the Island of the Witch, and it will probably end with Kinzo/Goldsmith's appearance at the conference. If they hurry, they might be able to cover the first twilight in it's entirety. <_<

[Kakkou]

Nah, it'll make a good cliffhanger to end with Kinzo appearing in the conference and the parents going "oh shit, we were wrong". I'm not sure but I don't think they can end it with the first twilight considering they have that discussion about why their children are priceless etc before Goldsmith decides to off people. They have to at least touch on that talk since it plays a role in the later events.

[Workworkwork]

Nah, it'll make a good cliffhanger to end with Kinzo appearing in the conference and the parents going "oh shit, we were wrong". I'm not sure but I don't think they can end it with the first twilight considering they have that discussion about why their children are priceless etc before Goldsmith decides to off people. They have to at least touch on that talk since it plays a role in the later events.

Hope they don't make Goldsmiths crazy eyes look QUALITY like Evas.

[Kakkou]

They've already given a glimpse of Goldsmith in episode 19, so I'm not particularly worried about that.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2931/goldmsith.th.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/goldmsith.jpg/)

[Workworkwork]

They've already given a glimpse of Goldsmith in episode 19, so I'm not particularly worried about that.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2931/goldmsith.th.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/goldmsith.jpg/)

Glad they kept his mouth the way it was originally. Plus, he still isn't forboding but awe-inspiring. Goldsmith as-per-usual.:cool:

[Jan-Poo]

I hope to see a scary Kinzo next episode, so far they have only shown pathetic mad Kinzo.
The Kinzo shown in episode19 is promising, I hope to see something even better.

[Vega Lyra]

Goldsmith is going to be amazing. :D I hope I can laugh at his crazy face in the future episodes.
Man, I love the crazy face Kinzo.

[Ssol]

I think the fun begins episode 22. The next episode probably won't have very much Kinzo. The siestas were made of win last arc so I have high expectations this time. In addition to Kinzo the adults faces should provide comedy as well... "WTF he's actually alive"... "LOL wuts he talking about?"... "OMG he's raping us!" :heh:

[Neofio3]

I think the fun begins episode 22. The next episode probably won't have very much Kinzo. The siestas were made of win last arc so I have high expectations this time. In addition to Kinzo the adults faces should provide comedy as well... "WTF he's actually alive"... "LOL wuts he talking about?"... "OMG he's raping us!" :heh:

At the very least "Kinzo's rampage" would require very little animation time (on the account of the "WTF!? He's killing us all!" needs to be short and chaotic to provide the appropriate mood). I'm actually quite confident of the pace so far, and that's *with* the hope of the final tea party taking up an entire episode.

[MeoTwister5]

I'm expecting epic Goldsmith in the dining room murders and the prison.

[June 1983]

So, do you think we can safely say that, if the first twilight were going to happen in tomorrow's episode, we'd know Gaap's and Siesta 00's voice actresses already? If so, I think we probably are only going to get as far as Kinzo's entrance into the meeting.

[momobunny]

Since we know virtually nothing about Gaap... is it safe to assume that the episode won't get through the first twilight?

[Kakkou]

Best bet would be the episode ending with Kinzo making his entrance. 00 and Gaap will most likely be next week.

[Neofio3]

I'm just hoping they're going to replace some scenes in the OP. The scene with Beatrice and Virgilia just does not fit anymore.

[Kakkou]

It does if you think of it as an EP3 & EP4 OP instead of just EP4, kinda like how the first version was for EP1 & EP2.

[MarthX]

No Goldsmith this week.

[June 1983]

2ch thread for 21: http://dec.2chan.net/18/res/9578842.htm

Fuck it doesn't look like they got to Goldsmith after all. :( Last shot is Kasumi, and I can't tell if they again neglected to give her any lines. Is that going to continue?

[Serpit]

Can anyone confirm if the titles for the final episodes shown on Wiki are real or not? I didn't find any info on them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Umineko_no_Naku_Koro_ni_episodes

Edit: Nvm., pretty sure they're fake, since apparently there are now 2 episodes called Breakthrough ^^

[June 1983]

I think I've seen all but the last episode posted before, so I think the rest of them are accurate. I think we'll get a "mate" name for the finale. It'll be a few weeks until we know the name of it though.

[MarthX]

Pretty sure Newtype didn't have 25 and 26's.

[Serpit]

I think I've seen all but the last episode posted before, so I think the rest of them are accurate. I think we'll get a "mate" name for the finale. It'll be a few weeks until we know the name of it though.

Yup, that's what I thought too. Thanks for confirming.

My bet is on Stalemate =D

[bigemperor]

So after see how deen adapt until this chapter here is my guess how is going to be the adaptation for the last 5 episodes.


Umineko Episode IV-IV
• Episode 4, Chapter 11: Ushiromiya Kinzo
• Episode 4, Chapter 12: World of the Sweet Witch
• Episode 4, Chapter 13: Dungeon


Umineko Episode IV-V
• Episode 4, Chapter 14: My Mission
• Episode 4, Chapter 15: Final Family Conference
• Episode 4, Chapter 16: The Next Head Part One


Umineko Episode IV-VI
• Episode 4, Chapter 16: The Next Head Part Two
• Episode 4, Chapter 17: Cause of the Tragedy (Part One)
The next head is extremelly long,it must be almost the entire episode.


Umineko Episode IV-VII
• Episode 4, Chapter 17: Cause of the Tragedy (Part Two - Metaworld Part)
• Episode 4, Chapter 18: Endpoint of a Journey
• Episode 4, Chapter 19: Ushiromiya Ange


Umineko Episode IV-VIII
• Episode 4, Tea Party
• Episode 4, ???? (Hidden Tea Party)
This way the can adapt and made the tea party as epic as the sound =)

[Kakkou]

I think (hope) they drastically shorten the evil Maria repeatedly killing Rosa scene, seeing how its just Maria's rage filled mind having pleasant dream (or at least I strongly believe so). If they skip it altogether I'll be further assured its completely redundant other than displaying how much anger Maria had towards Rosa at the time.

[momobunny]

After seeing episode 21, I won't want them to cut back on the Rosa torture at all.

I didn't even watch the episode yet and I'm already mad at her. >.>

[Raneh]

Rosa and Maria's scene was very emotional and well done. Next week Maria has to get her revenge properly or she(and I) won't be satisfied. :mad:

[Workworkwork]

I think (hope) they drastically shorten the evil Maria repeatedly killing Rosa scene, seeing how its just Maria's rage filled mind having pleasant dream (or at least I strongly believe so). If they skip it altogether I'll be further assured its completely redundant other than displaying how much anger Maria had towards Rosa at the time.

Hell no. That's the last time they can use miragecoordinator.

[TsundereCake]

I didn't really like how DEEN made a reference to the origin of "uu-" in this episode. It'll really take away from the surprise and sadness of the Ange-Kasumi island scene. OR maybe they're just using it as an excuse to not show that part in the anime :/

[Marion]

I didn't really like how DEEN made a reference to the origin of "uu-" in this episode. It'll really take away from the surprise and sadness of the Ange-Kasumi island scene. OR maybe they're just using it as an excuse to not show that part in the anime :/
I'm just glad they kept in the Uu- explanation :|

But I'm sure they'll say what it exactly means later on. Still I like how they alluded to it.

[TsundereCake]

I'm just glad they kept in the Uu- explanation :|

But I'm sure they'll say what it exactly means later on. Still I like how they alluded to it.

Well, they didn't really say that that's the origin. It could possibly be taken as just another time she said it (since she says it so often.)

[Marion]

Well, they didn't really say that that's the origin. It could possibly be taken as just another time she said it (since she says it so often.)
According to the game Maria came up with "Uu-" because she was singing a song and forgot the lyrics, so she substituted it with Uu-

We saw that scene this episode, when Maria is walking with Rosa.

[MarthX]

Showing the scene and explaining it are two different things.

[Marion]

Showing the scene and explaining it are two different things.
True, which is why I think they will explain it later: they just decided to put in the scene to add more emotional baggage to the scene (Maria saying she wants to kill Rosa and we see one of Maria's happiest moments)

Plus there is a difference: Every time in the anime we only saw Rosa being angry when Maria said Uu. But during that scene she was smiling at how adorable Maria was being with it.

[TsundereCake]

But during that scene she was smiling at how adorable Maria was being with it.

I guess that's true. We'll just have to see how the anime-only folks respond to it^^

[immblueversion]

as i keep saying, the origin of "uu" will absolutely be cut. It is part of the narration/inner monologue, which has been completely omitted so far. I highly doubt they will keep that.

however, there is a chance they will keep the origin of "uu" as a summary of kasumi's destruction of the diary. That is, they'll omit the build up and skip straight to the meaning. That would still butcher it, though. :(

new episode

origin of "uu"

so much for "omit the build up"

[Workworkwork]

new episode

origin of "uu"

so much for "omit the build up"

Uhh, yeah, they omitted the buildup.

Remember all the "Gumdrop magic" while Kasumi was tearing up Maria's diary?

Oh yeah, not here yet.

It's alluded to, but not explained at all. Please actually provide an explanation if you're going to make a false claim like that.

[Marion]

They DID build up to it. They put in the scene where Maria first uses Uu- and then in future episodes they'll mention that Uu- was a spell of happiness. The fact that they kept this scene means they probably WILL put in the meaning of Uu-

[immblueversion]

As I keep saying, the origin of "uu" will absolutely be cut. It is part of the narration/inner monologue, which has been completely omitted so far. I highly doubt they will keep that.

However, there is a chance they will keep the origin of "uu" as a summary of Kasumi's destruction of the diary. That is, they'll omit the build up and skip straight to the meaning. That would still butcher it, though. :(

True, which is why I think they will explain it later: they just decided to put in the scene to add more emotional baggage to the scene (Maria saying she wants to kill Rosa and we see one of Maria's happiest moments)

Plus there is a difference: Every time in the anime we only saw Rosa being angry when Maria said Uu. But during that scene she was smiling at how adorable Maria was being with it.

Same goes in most of the VN scenes where Maria says it in the presence of her mother. This was pretty much the only time we see Rosa genuinely enjoying the sound.

Either way, the Maria/Rosa plot point is far from over.

No matter how much she says otherwise, Maria will never truly come to accept that her mother hates her; she will continue to blame the "bad witch". That is why she wants to go to the Golden Land: so that she can live happily together with her mother. But as we all know, Ange proves to Maria that no Golden Land will ever promise that. But we also know that Maria will never stop looking for something, even if it isn't there, and even as rain or spears fall from the sky. So she will continue seeking out her mother's love, and defeat the "bad witch".

In fact, you have to admit, the existence of such a malevolent being inside Rosa is more apparent than ever in this story arc to the point that it is suggested outright in words. Of course, that is no confirmation, and things will probably develop differently given Umineko Chiru's change in direction. But I can safely say that by the time it is all over, Rosa and the "bad witch" will receive their final comeuppance.

[Marion]

I hope Rosa doesn't get a Chiru arc - she's had a lot of development already and literally every arc somehow tells us more about her. More characters need to be fleshed out than Rosa, as much as I do love her :/

Anyways next episode should get through the first twilight and introduce Gaap. I think it'll end on George and Jessica going to their tests myself.

[immblueversion]

I hope Rosa doesn't get a Chiru arc - she's had a lot of development already and literally every arc somehow tells us more about her. More characters need to be fleshed out than Rosa, as much as I do love her :/

Anyways next episode should get through the first twilight and introduce Gaap. I think it'll end on George and Jessica going to their tests myself.

But if Rosa doesn't play at least one more significant role in the future, how will they resolve her character? I mean, a secondary character with so much development deserves an appropriate end, something Ryukishi07 has never neglected to give.

I mean, look at Takano. I see Rosa's ending as being more like Takano's than Satoko's abusive uncle Teppei, who was merely arrested after being killed at least twice.

Besides, Rosa hardly does anything in EP5 before she dies.

Maybe they'll put her off for at least one episode in favor of someone else, but I can predict she will make a comeback around EP7, whether you like it or not.

So all in all, why let all that build-up go to waste?

[Marion]

But if Rosa doesn't play at least one more significant role in the future, how will they resolve her character? I mean, a secondary character with so much build-up deserves an appropriate end, something Ryukishi07 has never neglected to give.

I mean, look at Takano. I see Rosa's ending as being more like Takano's than Satoko's abusive uncle Teppei, who was merely arrested after being killed at least twice.
Well Teppei was a bastard character - you weren't SUPPOSE to have sympathy for him.

But I'm sure Rosa will be resolved, along with the other characters - I just don't think she needs an entire arc, especially when every episode developed her in some way.

EP 1 - Best Mom Ever introduced
EP 2 - Her own arc, Rosa-Musou
EP 3 - Her past with Beatrice of 1967
EP 4 - Best Mom Ever amplified

I just don't think she needs an entire arc, when there are other characters (like Rudolf, Kyrie, Hideyoshi and a couple servants) that could use more back story and development overall.

[immblueversion]

Well Teppei was a bastard character - you weren't SUPPOSE to have sympathy for him.

But I'm sure Rosa will be resolved, along with the other characters - I just don't think she needs an entire arc, especially when every episode developed her in some way.

EP 1 - Best Mom Ever introduced
EP 2 - Her own arc, Rosa-Musou
EP 3 - Her past with Beatrice of 1967
EP 4 - Best Mom Ever amplified

I just don't think she needs an entire arc, when there are other characters (like Rudolf, Kyrie, Hideyoshi and a couple servants) that could use more back story and development overall.

Well, then, how about this:

I see her as somehow getting involved in the grand scheme of the metaworld like Natsuhi. Then maybe her "bad witch" persona kicks in and she ends up as a supporting villain, then the focus gradually shifts to her being the villain for that arc only (i.e., villain of the week), like Eva-Beatrice in EP3 and Goldsmith in EP4. Then Battler and co. will see to it that she gets what she deserves. I mean, Battler should definitely have a general idea of what she's like, and would want to see the Rosa he knew and loved six years ago, much like Maria, so he should be her guiding light at best.

Sorry if this forum isn't the best place to discuss this.

[ameskitty]

Yeah, this should probably be moved to another thread (probably spoilers/speculations) but...wasn't Eva Beatrice chosen as the personification of "black witches"? I think the concept has had enough development in that it was used to show what magic really is (a topic I don't think needs much more development at this point).

After all I think EP 5 signified a lot of "closure" for that topic with Virgilia talking about what most readers have already figured out.
Really all I think Rosa needs at this point is some "closure" at the end showing her and Maria finally happy together (or Maria getting a new mother, take your pick).

If anybody joins the metaworld at this point (doubtful), I suspect Kanon or Shannon or perhaps both of them. But yeah, we don't need more people in the metaworld except for the culprit.

[Workworkwork]

They DID build up to it. They put in the scene where Maria first uses Uu- and then in future episodes they'll mention that Uu- was a spell of happiness. The fact that they kept this scene means they probably WILL put in the meaning of Uu-

Oh, so you can predict the future now?

I never said they wouldn't explain it period. However, they have never done the narration before, so I wouldn't want them to do it ANYWAY. Otherwise, why the hell did they omit it the first time around?:(

[Marion]

As I keep saying, the origin of "uu" will absolutely be cut. It is part of the narration/inner monologue, which has been completely omitted so far. I highly doubt they will keep that.
Hmmm~?

I'm not saying I can predict the future, I'm just saying you shouldn't doubt all monologue being cut - Beato had inner monologue in EP 3 and Kyrie had her own little quite thought let out in episode 19.

[Ithekro]

The text of "the cutting of the uu" looks like they should be in blue and red the way this is going.

[Kakkou]

Uhh, yeah, they omitted the buildup.

Remember all the "Gumdrop magic" while Kasumi was tearing up Maria's diary?

Oh yeah, not here yet.

It's alluded to, but not explained at all. Please actually provide an explanation if you're going to make a false claim like that.Actually, they did explain the meaning of Uuu well enough in the episode:

Maria: Uuu!!! Uuu!!
Rosa: Haven't I said to stop that "Uu-Uu"?! What is that supposed to be?! Its disgusting!!
Maria: Mama, don't you remember? The magic spell to be happy?
[cue brief flashback]

They even showed the full flashback later with Maria having difficulty singing and then Uuu-ing the rest of the song while Rosa looked happy. I don't think it needs to be any more direct than that. The way I see it, now that they've done this they can just do Kasumi mocking the Uu magic and then Ange has a really quick flashback of that same scene from this episode.

[immblueversion]

Oh, for anyone who hasn't noticed, the policeman is voiced by Chafurin.

You know who that is, right?

[Marion]

Oh, for anyone who hasn't noticed, the policeman is voiced by Chafurin.

You know who that is, right?
Yeah we know :P A few people have already noticed that the cop has Ooishi's voice :heh:

[Ithekro]

Makes me want to hear Mai Nakahara in this.

We still have, what, two more female characters that need voices in this arc (Siesta 00 and Gaap) plus there is always Erika and the Iron Maidens next season. (for those that want Aya Hirano and Yūko Gotō to complete the Haruhi main cast list, since Minami-ke's main cast list is complete)

[Ssol]

They still have quite a ways to go to complete the Higurashi cast even though they brought in Ooishi this episode.
They can start working on it next season.
Manon and Renon haven't appeared in the VN yet... :eyebrow:

[Jan-Poo]

It really baffles me how so many people are concerned with servants that are mentioned twice in the arc of 5 episodes rather than being concerned with the mother and grandmother of half the main cast not having a name yet.

[momobunny]

It really baffles me how so many people are concerned with servants that are mentioned twice in the arc of 5 episodes rather than being concerned with the mother and grandmother of half the main cast not having a name yet.

What do you mean? People talk about Asumu, Maria's father, and Kinzo's wife a lot as well... Asumu the most and Kinzo's wife the least.

[Jan-Poo]

I have seen practically no mention about Kinzo's wife involvement with the mystery, while in the case of Manon and Renon I've seen complex theories with them as culprits, or people claiming they are more important than Ange.

[momobunny]

I have seen practically no mention about Kinzo's wife involvement with the mystery, while in the case of Manon and Renon I've seen complex theories with them as culprits, or people claiming they are more important than Ange.

Really? I thought people were just joking around about them being expy characters of Rena and Mion. O.o;
No idea that they made theories about them. ^^;

But I've seen Kinzo's wife be mentioned a few times. Thing is, nothing about her is known... not even her name or anything, the fact that she's basically just a mystery with a seemingly nonexistent role leaves little for discussion. While Asumu and Maria's father on the other hand were mentioned more and have at least a little bit to do with the story.

[Jan-Poo]

Well nothing wrong with Asumu and Maria's father they were mentioned a lot of times.

It's just Kinzo's wife that is like completely forgotten. Certainly we know almost nothing about here, but we do know more about her than Manon and Renon! Which is why I was comparing the the two cases.

And the theory placing Renon as the culprit (for all the games) is here:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2756686#post2756686
Beware that it is the Game speculation thread! The post itself is all right but the rest of the thread contains spoilers.

[momobunny]

Well nothing wrong with Asumu and Maria's father they were mentioned a lot of times.

It's just Kinzo's wife that is like completely forgotten. Certainly we know almost nothing about here, but we do know more about her than Manon and Renon! Which is why I was comparing the the two cases.

And the theory placing Renon as the culprit (for all the games) is here:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2756686#post2756686
Beware that it is the Game speculation thread! The post itself is all right but the rest of the thread contains spoilers.

Wow...
Well I agree with you on Kinzo's wife, she is a forgotten character. I hope she comes in one of the future episodes in the form of flashbacks or something, I mean... even her own kids barely even mention her.

And you're right, that's silly. But if it's any consolation, nobody really mentions Runon that much. :heh:

[lubczyk]

Having seen episode 21, it further enhances my theory that magic does not exist and needs to be discredited to order to figure the murder mystery out.

Why didn't the Stakes kill Ange's classmates when she commanded them to? Why didn't Ange's bodyguard, Rosa or Ange's classmates ever see the stakes or Shotaru or Maria-Beatrice? Because those characters don't exist!!! They're delusions and trickery thought up by Beatrice and the others to confuse the player (ie: Battler).

Same thing for the Siestas. They're just delusions thought up by Maria by her memory of her porcelin bunny music squad.

I'm leaning towards the murderer being an 18th person with Kinzo dead or gone before the start of the storm working in conjuction with one of the family members, probably Eva.

[June 1983]

Hmmm ... is it true that the anime cut out the conversations with the boat captain, Kumasawa's son, and Nanjo's son? I didn't think about it when I was watching the episode, but I guess the boat ride IS after that, isn't it? In that case, shit. I thought the scenes at Kumasawa's son's house with the revelation that she was trying to solve the riddle ... and Nanjo's son's with the info about the envelope ... and then the boat captain's which a lot of people think has a clue about Sakutarou's resurrection .... were really important.

So is that person in the 21 thread right?

[Kitsu]

No, that person is wrong (and I contacted that person to take out the spoilers) those scenes are yet to come. At the moment Ange is stil on her way to NIIJIMA. The scenes which come later are on Niijima. (proof for example in the captains house Sakutaro and Mammon are with her)

[June 1983]

Thank goodness! I couldn't remember if they took a boat to Niijima or a plane. Relief!

[Kitsu]

Kasumi took the plane^^ Cause the boat riding would need to long. I think two hours or so while Ange took the boat to be more undetected I believe?

[Ssol]

Hmmm ... is it true that the anime cut out the conversations with the boat captain, Kumasawa's son, and Nanjo's son? I didn't think about it when I was watching the episode, but I guess the boat ride IS after that, isn't it? In that case, shit. I thought the scenes at Kumasawa's son's house with the revelation that she was trying to solve the riddle ... and Nanjo's son's with the info about the envelope ... and then the boat captain's which a lot of people think has a clue about Sakutarou's resurrection .... were really important.

Yeah those scenes haven't happened yet. They are way too important and there's no way they'd be cut. :)

I wonder what they'll put in the episode 22 preview. Hopefully it won't be too spoilerific. :heh:

[Marion]

Taking the boat does take longer (they said in EP 1 that before it would take them a couple hours to get to Niijima by boat, but by plane it only takes about 30 minutes) but it easier to go undetected. Ange probably thought Kasumi would take a plane rather than a dingy boat, so she probably did it on purpose.

[Arachanox]

(Having not played Episode 5 yet,) What is the general consensus regarding "there are no more than 17 people on the island," despite the fact that from the human standpoint there clearly are?

[Jan-Poo]

why you say so? So far we don't have any reason to think there have been more than 17 people on Rokkenjima in the first 4 games

[Arachanox]

For reference and in case wordplay is at work, the red in question:

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/rmxpdaisukeniwa/red01.png

The 4 cousins, 7 parents, 5 servants, and Nanjo add up to 17. How does one explain the appearance of Goldsmith/Kinzo in EP4?

(also, did you put up an EP5 note and then remove it? I feel like something is missing.)

[Workworkwork]

I wonder if they'll keep in Kasumi's mention that she despises shakes.

If so, wooo, Asumu=Kasumi here we come!

[Jan-Poo]

For reference and in case wordplay is at work, the red in question:

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/rmxpdaisukeniwa/red01.png

The 4 cousins, 7 parents, 5 servants, and Nanjo add up to 17. How does one explain the appearance of Goldsmith/Kinzo in EP4?

Those who write in this thread are supposed to know the events described up to Ep4. Did you play Ep4 till the end? If you did you should know the answer already, so I'm kinda confused. Before continuing this conversation let me know if you know all the events or if you have just seen that screenshot without knowing the sentence that was said before it. I don't want to spoil you.

(also, did you put up an EP5 note and then remove it? I feel like something is missing.)

Yeah sorry, that was a mistake I didn't notice this is the anime thread.

[Arachanox]

I have played up to the end of EP4, but now I'm doubting if my knowledge is clear. I did rush through a bit so that I could enjoy it all in a fervor.

But about Goldsmith, isn't he supposed to also be 'Kinzo' at the same time? Even if 'Kinzo' is dead, it is a Kinzo replacement, and that pushes 17 to 18, breaking the red.

[chounokoe]

For reference and in case wordplay is at work, the red in question:

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/rmxpdaisukeniwa/red01.png

The 4 cousins, 7 parents, 5 servants, and Nanjo add up to 17. How does one explain the appearance of Goldsmith/Kinzo in EP4?

(also, did you put up an EP5 note and then remove it? I feel like something is missing.)

Well the existence of Kinzo/Goldsmith during Episode 4 hasn't been logically explained and many people are still straining to get an answer, I think that's the problem.
That's why many people are interested in seeing how it will be shown in the anime, if there are any hints that lead us towards the truth.
So far this red is true. (this being the VN reader thread we can say that much)

So it's up to us now to explain how Kinzo could have been there without being there.


I have played up to the end of EP4, but now I'm doubting if my knowledge is clear. I did rush through a bit so that I could enjoy it all in a fervor.

But about Goldsmith, isn't he supposed to also be 'Kinzo' at the same time? Even if 'Kinzo' is dead, it is a Kinzo replacement, and that pushes 17 to 18, breaking the red.

But the problem is you can't break a red truth, because it's the truth. You can only try to find a way around it, because there may be a hole in it's logic.
Like saying, this is Goldsmith and Goldsmith = Kinzo, but Ushiromiya Kinzo =/= THIS Goldsmith.
Still that would break when facing the truth, that there are only 17 or less people on the island.

[Marion]

I wonder if they'll keep in Kasumi's mention that she despises shakes.

If so, wooo, Asumu=Kasumi here we come!
That part was already omitted - Kasumi mentioned that line when she got off the plane and was already at Niijima, which we saw as the last moments in 21.

Well the existence of Kinzo/Goldsmith during Episode 4 hasn't been logically explained and many people are still straining to get an answer, I think that's the problem.
That's why many people are interested in seeing how it will be shown in the anime, if there are any hints that lead us towards the truth.
So far this red is true. (this being the VN reader thread we can say that much)

So it's up to us now to explain how Kinzo could have been there without being there.
Well it could be reasoned that every scene with Kinzo is just a fake scene. Not too hard to picture, since Battler himself never sees Kinzo in person. Considering Kinzo lifted up his 50-something year old son into the air and is going to summon bunnies and demons, it won't be TOO hard to reason.

[Jan-Poo]

I have played up to the end of EP4, but now I'm doubting if my knowledge is clear. I did rush through a bit so that I could enjoy it all in a fervor.

But about Goldsmith, isn't he supposed to also be 'Kinzo' at the same time? Even if 'Kinzo' is dead, it is a Kinzo replacement, and that pushes 17 to 18, breaking the red.

well Goldsmith is as true as Eva-Beatrice, the seven sisters, the siesta sisters, the goats, Ronove, Virigilia and Gaap.

If you think goldsmith exists then it's like accepting magic, but if you accept magic, then Shannon and Kanon are furniture, and the human count works again.

But if you don't believe in magic then Goldsmith just doesn't exist, he's just a delusion.

[Arachanox]

Haven't Shannon and Kanon unilaterally declared they weren't furniture? We should observe the player count from the human perspective, not the magic one, right? In that case, we're back from 15 to 17.

[Graskell]

Actually there is. Battler saw a woman who looked like the witch from the portrait in episodes 1,2, and 4. The scene in episode two has so many things wrong with it that it can easily be discounted as fake but the same can not be said about the other two.

The scene in the first arc happened shortly before midnight on the 5th and was clearly from battler's point of view. She was standing in the shadows and never spoke, but Maria clearly identified her as "Beatrice". There is nothing supernatural about this scene.

The scene in the fourth arc took place shortly after midnight on the 4th and consisted of a prolonged conversation both over the phone and in person. The second story balcony is not that high up. Again nothing supernatural going on here except for Beatrice's rambling about chessboards and being able to talk to him in the flesh for the first time.

I'll readily concede that there are ways to explain these scenes without including an additional person. However, it is still evidence that needs to be explained away.

[chounokoe]

well Goldsmith is as true as Eva-Beatrice, the seven sisters, the siesta sisters, the goats, Ronove, Virigilia and Gaap.

If you think goldsmith exists then it's like accepting magic, but if you accept magic, then Shannon and Kanon are furniture, and the human count works again.

But if you don't believe in magic then Goldsmith just doesn't exist, he's just a delusion.

Yet still 'None of the people in the dining room would confuse any other person as Kinzo'.
Of course you can say the whole scene in itself was fake and can be discarded as a whole, but then I would ask myself why it was in there in the first place. It would totally disrupt the trust between the author and the reader and therefore deny any given possibilty of actually solving a mystery at hand (it's funny how lately so many things I thought about Umineko are popping up in a detective fiction seminar at my university).
There has to be some kernel truth to those scenes, too. The question remains how they could have seen what they saw while Kinzo was clearly dead and every one of the 17 remaining people seemed to have an alibi.

And concerning the count of people in general. It is still said that the count of people on Rokkenjima is always １７人以上 meaning up to 17 people...it is still quite intersting to know if there are ever times when it is actually LESS than 17. It IS quite odd that Beatrice always gives the highest possible count and not the lowest possible (the lowest only given when she says that Battler is alone in the end).

[Ithekro]

The thing is, they don't have to confuse anything...lying is quicker and easier. Second way around this would be to use the location as a specific..."in the dining room"...people who were outside the dining room could (legally) confuse things.

[chounokoe]

The thing is, they don't have to confuse anything...lying is quicker and easier. Second way around this would be to use the location as a specific..."in the dining room"...people who were outside the dining room could (legally) confuse things.

Yet all the people who witnessed that scene were in the dining room, weren't they?
Of course you can argue there with Gaaps holes and such, but so far it's difficult to guess on that one because we clearly saw everyone and the servants one after another being in or entering the dining hall and Kinzo being the last person to actually being witnessed entering and being recognized by his children as their father, Ushiromiya Kinzo...at least they adressed this person that way.

There could be people lying among them, of course, but that would have to include everyone included in the red truth, it being 'Everyone present at the family conference accepted Kinzo's existence' and 'No living being would mistake Ushiromiya Kinzo. Whatever disguise it may be, nobody would mistake Ushiromiya Kinzo.' it is quite hard to get around without saying 'everybody lied'...that would leave the question 'why were people killed then' and 'who were they lying to?'.
Yet...reading it again one question arises.
What is the family conference and from where/when to where/when does it expand? And if someone didn't find his being there meaning 'being present at the family conference', would it mean he wasn't there?　
AND are the servants considered taking part in the family conference?

[Jan-Poo]

Haven't Shannon and Kanon unilaterally declared they weren't furniture? We should observe the player count from the human perspective, not the magic one, right? In that case, we're back from 15 to 17.

If you are anti-fantasy then Kinzo isn't alive, and therefore doesn't count in the people limit.

Yet still 'None of the people in the dining room would confuse any other person as Kinzo'.
Of course you can say the whole scene in itself was fake and can be discarded as a whole, but then I would ask myself why it was in there in the first place. It would totally disrupt the trust between the author and the reader and therefore deny any given possibilty of actually solving a mystery at hand (it's funny how lately so many things I thought about Umineko are popping up in a detective fiction seminar at my university).
There has to be some kernel truth to those scenes, too. The question remains how they could have seen what they saw while Kinzo was clearly dead and every one of the 17 remaining people seemed to have an alibi.

And concerning the count of people in general. It is still said that the count of people on Rokkenjima is always １７人以上 meaning up to 17 people...it is still quite intersting to know if there are ever times when it is actually LESS than 17. It IS quite odd that Beatrice always gives the highest possible count and not the lowest possible (the lowest only given when she says that Battler is alone in the end).

Apart from Battler's answer, it is quite possible that they saw Kinzo's dead body so the red truth is respected.

Kinzo is already dead before all the games

There aren't many leeways to get around it.

I think we should be ready to accept that the magic scenes we see might be completely fake as long as they follow a story that is being told by one of the characters.

In the case of Ep4 the whole dining room scene is told by Gohda, Kumasawa and then by Kyrie. That alone justifies the fact we have seen such a thing, because that's how the story has been told to Battler.

In the case of Natsuhi in Ep1, the scene we see with Natsuhi and Kinzo is also something that later was told by Natsuhi to the rest of the family.

[Arachanox]

I've heard that Episode 1 is one in which no magic was used, and can be explain entirely from a human perspective (since it was the "first resurrection ceremony", Beatrice couldn't have been around except in her frail form in the beginning of EP2). In that case, who is the Natsuhi-Kinzo in EP1?

edit: Wait, the few spoilers I've gotten for EP5 seem to suggest that there is a lot I don't know about Natsuhi yet. Never mind this.

[chounokoe]

Apart from Battler's answer, it is quite possible that they saw Kinzo's dead body so the red truth is respected.

Kinzo is already dead before all the games

There aren't many leeways to get around it.

Of course I already thought of either Kinzo's corpse turning up through some event in the dining room, or the corpse being used as a prop to scare the family or make them believe in his existence.
That would also explain why it is cast in the furnace only in the end when Schoolgirl-Beatrice decides to give up.
In fact it would heavily support the servants being connected to the crime, as the scene of Episode 3's first twilight could also be explained by the servants burning Kinzo's corpse and framing Beatrice.

I think we should be ready to accept that the magic scenes we see might be completely fake as long as they follow a story that is being told by one of the characters.

In the case of Ep4 the whole dining room scene is told by Gohda, Kumasawa and then by Kyrie. That alone justifies the fact we have seen such a thing, because that's how the story has been told to Battler.

Well it depends how you define completely fake. This wording would imply, that they are completely made up and any hint drawn from them is a red herring.
It also means that we have to discard about 75% of Umineko...if it comes down to that it would be a case of seriously bad writing.

If you mean that they didn't play out the way they are described and shown to us, then of course, I agree.

In the case of Natsuhi in Ep1, the scene we see with Natsuhi and Kinzo is also something that later was told by Natsuhi to the rest of the family.

Well, as far as I see it, she really thought to talk to Kinzo face to face in his study in this scene.

[maximilianjenus]

Plus beatrice let an opening because kinzo can be inherited as a title, IIRC she even said that in red; so kinzo could be kannon who solved the epitaph and inherited the title of kinzo, while krauss and natsuhi are not very against that because he want to marry george err... jessica, thus they keep the head.

[EDIT]

there is also a very lame way to break the person limit red text, that is having a random person/persons arrive in teh island after the first twilight, like having maria's father( houjou teppei) crash in the island after getting out of jail.

[Jan-Poo]

But this whole idea that Kinzo stands for the "Head of the family" makes little sense to me. Isn't Kinzo the given name of Battler's grandfather?

This is the same as to say that every United States President is "George Washington" because they inherited the name from the first one.

Are you really telling me that should Eva crown her dream she would be called Kinzo?

[chounokoe]

But this whole idea that Kinzo stands for the "Head of the family" makes little sense to me. Isn't Kinzo the given name of Battler's grandfather?

This is the same as to say that every United States President is "George Washington" because they inherited the name from the first one.

Are you really telling me that should Eva crown her dream she would be called Kinzo?

Well it is just a theory that was proposed to go around the problem of seeing Kinzo in the dining room, yet he being certainly dead. This topic is further discussed in Episode 5, so it's best to disclose this for now, as I think this isn't the right place to discuss Episode 5 stuff.

[hirahira]

I wonder if they'll keep in Kasumi's mention that she despises shakes.

If so, wooo, Asumu=Kasumi here we come!

They did keep that part.

[Ttak]

Preview for ep 22 is out at http://anime.biglobe.ne.jp/movie/25/2590/2590-822-1000.asx
Guess who's doing it now? Ohhh desiree...
And omg, is he talking about oppai right after Gaap appears?
Maria killing rosa scene is there too...

[June 1983]

ahh!! I can't wait for it to turn up on YouTube, shit!

I really don't need to hear Kinzo talking about oppai though D:

eta: ooh! I was actually able to play the .asx file! Usually I can't. Though the video kept screwing up because it was buffering.

[ameskitty]

Yeah, Maria looking crazy when it actually fits is going to be awesome. (and wowwww Kinzo, lol...)

Hmm, I like Gaap's design. She looks a little less psycho/demonic, but it looks good.

[Marion]

Hell yeah: GOLDSMITH

Not Hell yeah: L5 Maria :|

[June 1983]

Soooo .......

Does anyone think we'll get instrumental Happy Maria! next week when Gaap appears?

I don't think it's likely, but I can dream.

[Ssol]

Gaap's face... doesn't remind me of the visual novel version for some reason. Mabye it's just me. :heh:
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6199/gaapanime.jpg

[TsundereCake]

My mom asked me who I was talking to when I started saying "EW EW EEEEEEW" when Kinzo started talking like a baby :heh: :heh:

Gaap looks pretty cool^^ But why do they appear on the table? :heh:

[MeoTwister5]

Gaap VA information pl0x.

[Ttak]

Gaap looks pretty cool^^ But why do they appear on the table? :heh:

they are the main dish Maybe because DEEN wanted they to appear right before all the siblings' eyes (see where they are positioned).

And I think this Gaap looks awesome (prettier and better than the VN)

[Jan-Poo]

I love this Gaap. Hopefully they'll give her a good voice.

[TsundereCake]

I love this Gaap. Hopefully they'll give her a good voice.

I hope Gaap has a recogniable voice. I mean, I've liked the noobs they've had so far, but I'm just really hoping for another big-name seiyuu :heh:

[Christen]

This is the craziest preview so far. I was like -_`, but then I was like 8D

[Geekodot]

Great preview, can't wait for the first twilight, it's gonna be awesome xD

[momobunny]

Gaap's face... doesn't remind me of the visual novel version for some reason. Mabye it's just me. :heh:
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6199/gaapanime.jpg

Yay Gaap and Siesta OO!! Gaap looks really pretty in the anime. :3

[Ithekro]

It is killer loli time. (about the only time it will be a true statement)

[Kitsu]

Why does Gaap remind me of Shannon in the first shot O.o

[Ssol]

Duh, because she is Shannon. *Hides for cover* :p

If someone doesn't say 'head shot' at least once next episode DEEN is fired.

[Ithekro]

Eyes closed. Head down. Big breasts. Submissive servant looking.

[Kitsu]

You forgot the gaap in the skirt xDD but yeah now that you say it she looks a lot like the submissive servant in that shot.

[luizf]

They can go all out with the L5 faces next week
Rosa.. That b*tch's gonna get what she deserves

[Volcanic]

KINZO OH MY GOD. *laughs* That was win.

Gaap looks totally awesome, I bet they're making her look submissive so we'll all freak out when she uses her raepface. :heh:

[Workworkwork]

L5 faces... Eh, they're just not as good as the SN's empty eyes.

At least there will be Goldsmith.

[Jan-Poo]

I hope Gaap has a recogniable voice. I mean, I've liked the noobs they've had so far, but I'm just really hoping for another big-name seiyuu :heh:

Aya Hirano? XD

That's the only chance left for her to appear in Umineko, at least this season. But that's probably not going to happen :/

[Workworkwork]

I hope Gaap has a recogniable voice. I mean, I've liked the noobs they've had so far, but I'm just really hoping for another big-name seiyuu :heh:

She should be voiced by Ohara.

[Marion]

She should be voiced by Ohara.
Ohara is already doing Beato :V Why would she dual role as Gaap?

[June 1983]

I was never a fan of Gaap's character design in the VN, so the anime design is welcome to me. :) I do hope she has a good raepface though.

Whee I'm so excited! And starting next week we won't have to read all of the anime fans complaining about "when are we going back to the island ... blah blah blah".

[MeoTwister5]

If Mai Nakahara comes to voice Gaap I'm gonna eat my own bloodied foot bandage.

[Akuryou]

If Mai Nakahara comes to voice Gaap I'm gonna eat my own bloodied foot bandage.

That doesn't sound too bad, to be honest.

edit;
I mean... Nakahara voicing Gaap... not you eating a bloodied bandage.

[Ithekro]

Just how into Bern is Erika? Lambda levels? Because I thought of someone to voice her from an entirely meta point of view...something they'd pull in the previews level....Nana Mizuki.

[Jan-Poo]

Just how into Bern is Erika? Lambda levels?

It's the level "over nine thousaaand!!!!"

Bern is probably the only thing that Erika considers more important than herself.

[Westlo]

Thankfully Gaap looks a lot better than her VN version, the VN designs are far from good but Gaap's was the worst by a massive margin. And fuck yeah goldsmith next week!

[Kaisos Erranon]

Thankfully Gaap looks a lot better than her VN version, the VN designs are far from good but Gaap's was the worst by a massive margin. And fuck yeah goldsmith next week!

Isn't Gaap supposed to be really, really manly? That's what I figured...

[Westlo]

Isn't Gaap supposed to be really, really manly? That's what I figured...

I don't this so, I just though it was Ryukishi's inability to draw being showcased.

[Workworkwork]

Isn't Gaap supposed to be really, really manly? .

:uhoh:

Gaap's redesign looks okay. A shame her bust isn't larger, though.

Here's to hoping they gag it up by 26!

[momobunny]

Isn't Gaap supposed to be really, really manly? That's what I figured...

o_o;

I don't think "manly" is what Gaap is supposed to be... if that was the case, then she wouldn't wear a girlish outfit that shows off her body, girly shoes, a cute hat with a ribbon on it, and have a ringlet type of hairstyle.

I think she's supposed to be one of those more... flirtatious? Promiscuous? Well basically... she's the obligatory "mature female" character... as in... one that flaunts her body and ISN'T super moe at the same time.

[Westlo]

Well if you want to be blunt than Gaap's a slutty character.

:uhoh:

Gaap's redesign looks okay.

Okay, who hacked into Workx3's account :\ He would never say a anime design is okay compared to the godly VN designs.

[Workworkwork]

Okay, who hacked into Workx3's account :\ He would never say a anime design is okay compared to the godly VN designs.

The anime has usually just had atrocious redesigns. Gaap looks better than the others though. Probably because her face is rounder.

[Kaisos Erranon]

I don't this so, I just though it was Ryukishi's inability to draw being showcased.

She has a mannish face... one of the few things Ryukishi is good at is faces... :heh:

I kind of thought she was supposed to be hideous and not really realize it.


I don't think "manly" is what Gaap is supposed to be... if that was the case, then she wouldn't wear a girlish outfit that shows off her body, girly shoes, a cute hat with a ribbon on it, and have a ringlet type of hairstyle.

Always thought that was her compensating for her butch appearance.

I don't mean her personality is manly, I mean her physical looks. "Mannish" is a better word.

[~Ayane~]

Just how into Bern is Erika? Lambda levels? Because I thought of someone to voice her from an entirely meta point of view...something they'd pull in the previews level....Nana Mizuki.

Nanoha and Fate...? ;O

I don't think "manly" is what Gaap is supposed to be...

and yet i felt the same when i saw her for the first time, and tbh her VN self freaks the hell out of me xD

[Ithekro]

Nanoha and Fate...? ;O


Well they seem rather Meta with everything else...why not?

"Bernkastel"
"Yes?"
"Bernkastel"
"Yes?"
"Bernkastel"
"Stop saying my name like that. What do you want?"

[maximilianjenus]

She has a mannish face... one of the few things Ryukishi is good at is faces... :heh:

I kind of thought she was supposed to be hideous and not really realize it.



Always thought that was her compensating for her butch appearance.

I don't mean her personality is manly, I mean her physical looks. "Mannish" is a better word.

You are just feeding the gaap = kannon / shannon = beatrice trolls.

[Kaisos Erranon]

You are just feeding the gaap = kannon / shannon = beatrice trolls.

The latter isn't a troll, there's plenty of evidence to suggest it. :heh:

I was just surprised they made Gaap so pretty, is all.

[Jan-Poo]

Apparently there are many people who thinks Gaap is ugly, but I don't think it was Ryukishi's intention. Apart from the not so beautiful look in the novel there is absolutely no mention of her being not particularly pretty.

At the very least we can say she acts with a lot of confidence about her own beauty. That doesn't mean she actually is... but when in a story someone is confident about something where he actually is bad at, usually it is made very clear.

Anyway I'd like to think that Gaap is a beautiful demon, in a demonesque slutty way. Which is why I gladly welcome this new design.

[Escargotage]

I read on the comments for the Episode 22 preview that the last two episode names were "announced" as sacrifice and checkmate. This isn't correct, right? Like, it hasn't been confirmed anywhere?

[MarthX]

Aside from Wikipedia, I haven't seen them anywhere and NewType didn't list 25 and 26 as far as I know.

They sound legit though.

[~Ayane~]

huh? using checkmate is...not good....

[Leinne]

Last episode=checkmate. It'd just be normal, it's the final mate of the season after all. Scarifice is just fitting

[MeoTwister5]

VA information are usually out by this time.

Unless Gaap's VA is so super special that they want to explode our minds when they announce who she is.

[Raneh]

huh? using checkmate is...not good....
I agree. Although I understand why it would be a nice name for the final episode of the season, 'Stalemate' is more fitting. It's not like either of them exactly win the game.

[Serpit]

I agree. Although I understand why it would be a nice name for the final episode of the season, 'Stalemate' is more fitting. It's not like either of them exactly win the game.

Yup, I'm also fond of Stalemate. Desperado would also be fitting.

[chronotrig]

I agree. Although I understand why it would be a nice name for the final episode of the season, 'Stalemate' is more fitting. It's not like either of them exactly win the game.

Well, it does seem that Beato is defeated. It's more like she threw the game than an actual stalemate.

[Serpit]

Well, it does seem that Beato is defeated. It's more like she threw the game than an actual stalemate.

Which is why I also think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desperado_(chess) would be fitting.

[Ithekro]

So to match "Be. Mom. Ever." are we going to get "Best. Dad. Ever." out of Kinzo?

[Marion]

Best Grandpa Ever sounds more fitting :P

But yeah Stalemate is more fitting, because even though Beato does give up she isn't actually defeated because Battler didn't solve the final riddle, hence why EP 5 exists and everything didn't end with EP 4.

[Catmask]

Could it be that Kyrie/Kasumi is the culprit?
The goats are the hit men of Kyrie/Kasumi.
The stakes are pistols that shoot stakes directly into the body of the target.
Kasumi is the real mother of Battler.
Ange is later killed by Kasumi.

Or something like that.
I can't write down what i think, my english is too bad.

[Marion]

Could it be that Kyrie/Kasumi is the culprit?
The goats are the hit men of Kyrie/Kasumi.
The stakes are pistols that shoot stakes directly into the body of the target.
Kasumi is the real mother of Battler.
Ange is later killed by Kasumi.

Or something like that.
I can't write down what i think, my english is too bad.
Well the stakes also are solid icepick like weapons.

I'm bit confused - are you saying Kyrie = Kasumi? Or are they separate?

[Kaisos Erranon]

There's more support for Kasumi being Asumu, to be honest... her line about hating airplanes, and the similar names...

She can't be Kyrie, by the way, as Kyrie is dead.

[June 1983]

I've only recently become aware of the Kasumi=Asumu theory and personally .... I kind of love it! It really really makes sense! Especially considering Kasumi's comments about having to give up the person she loved.

But what doesn't make sense is Battler's maternal grandparents. That kind of ruins that theory. They definitely AREN'T the same people as Ange's maternal grandparents, obviously.

[Marion]

The thing I don't like about Kasumi = Asumu is that

1) It hinges on the fact that Asumu is alive and Rudolf (possibly Battler too) has been lying about her being dead.

2) Asumu probably wasn't even AWARE of Ange's existence, since she probably died not too long after Ange was born or even more so.

There's also the fact that Battler said Asumu came from a very average lifestyle (EP 1) and it wasn't nearly as glamorous as the Ushiromiya or for that matter the Sumadera family. Wouldn't Battler go to live with the Sumadera family if Kasumi = Asumu then? It doesn't make much sense to me.

Honestly just because "Asumu is dead' is not in red doesn't mean we shouldn't trust her status. It's one of those things I think we should just take at face value imo.

[June 1983]

Actually Asumu should be dead BEFORE Ange's birth. The way I understand it happening is

6 years ago ....

Asumu dies
Rudolf almost immediately marries Kyrie
Within a year Kyrie gives birth to Ange

She might have been pregnant beforehand (which if true, makes Asumu's death -- or """"death"""" if people prefer) kind of suspicious.

[Marion]

Actually Asumu should be dead BEFORE Ange's birth. The way I understand it happening is

6 years ago ....

Asumu dies
Rudolf almost immediately marries Kyrie
Within a year Kyrie gives birth to Ange

She might have been pregnant beforehand (which if true, makes Asumu's death -- or """"death"""" if people prefer) kind of suspicious.
According to Battler when he explains what he thinks is his sin he says that he knew Kyrie and Rudolf had an affair BECAUSE of Ange being alive when Kyrie and Rudolf married.

[Kaisos Erranon]

1) It hinges on the fact that Asumu is alive and Rudolf (possibly Battler too) has been lying about her being dead.

We don't have any idea of how Asumu died. It could have been in an accident... and she could have survived, unbeknownst to either of them. It's a common enough plot device.

Just because she's actually alive does not mean that Rudolf knows about it.

There's also the fact that Battler said Asumu came from a very average lifestyle (EP 1) and it wasn't nearly as glamorous as the Ushiromiya or for that matter the Sumadera family. Wouldn't Battler go to live with the Sumadera family if Kasumi = Asumu then? It doesn't make much sense to me.

What you'd have to assume, if this theory is true, is that Kasumi abandoned her old family to go live with Rudolf, and, either out of shame or some other emotion, told Battler some lie about her past.

And who says her "maternal grandparents" are actually her grandparents at all?

I realize it's far-fetched, but if Asumu is alive (and the mastermind) it makes a lot of sense to me.

Honestly just because "Asumu is dead' is not in red doesn't mean we shouldn't trust her status. It's one of those things I think we should just take at face value imo.

Face value. In Umineko. Riiiiight.

[rogerpepitone]

And Kyrie failed to notice that Asumu was really Kasumi?

[chounokoe]

There's more support for Kasumi being Asumu, to be honest... her line about hating airplanes, and the similar names...
[/COLOR]

Well hate of airplanes is a rather common feature, it could also be another similarity between characters which is going to open up a story about comparable background in a future Episode.
And the similar names are rather...meeeh...Kasumi and Asumu may sound a bit alike, but I don't see that much similarity between 霞 and 明日夢...there's not even that much when you write it in Kana (かすみ and　あすむ) the only thing that connects them is the number 3 and the す.
That seems a bit farfetched for me.

We don't have any idea of how Asumu died. It could have been in an accident... and she could have survived, unbeknownst to either of them. It's a common enough plot device.

Just because she's actually alive does not mean that Rudolf knows about it.


Even though I dislike the Kasumi=Asumu theory, I do also think that Asumu has more to her than we have seen so far. There must be of course, because why would Rudolph lie about Battler being the son of a woman who is dead and seems to have had almost no influence towards the Ushiromiya family at all, if there is no bigger mystery behind it at all.


What you'd have to assume, if this theory is true, is that Kasumi abandoned her old family to go live with Rudolf, and, either out of shame or some other emotion, told Battler some lie about her past.

The problem with this is, that almost everything she told us about the root of her hatred for her sister and the Ushiromiya's would have been almost a lie.
Kyrie went of to pursue her happiness and Kasumi was left alone to take care of business while she also always stood in the shadow of her big sister. She was much similar to Maria in that a beloved person seemed to do not care about her and left her alone, yet she really seems to have decided to kill.
All of that would be weakened if the plot of her having had the chance to move out of her family were introduced at all.

And who says her "maternal grandparents" are actually her grandparents at all?

I realize it's far-fetched, but if Asumu is alive (and the mastermind) it makes a lot of sense to me.

The point about maternal grandparents not being them seems possible, yet it is highly sepculative right now. There would be no hint to this fact at all within the story, because those people took Battler in and cared for him, as it seems, rather well. If they would have done it for money and were not related at all I think a hint would have been dropped by now.

I asume Asumu is one of the big red herrings along the way. I kind of dislike labeling her as the culprit, because as of now, we don't know enough about her and as it stands right now it would strongly clash with the rule of 'The culprit has to be among the people introduced at the beginning of the story'.

And regarding the possibility of Asumu being Beatrice we would still lack a proper motive for her that is not coliding with facts we already learned.

[Workworkwork]

What about "Kyrie=Asumu"? Does everyone just skip out on the possibility that Asumu changed her name to Kyrie for X reason, with Kyrie already being long dead?

For example, 6 or so years ago, the real Kyrie was killed, but her dying wish or something motivated Asumu to take her place. This fits in with the red of Kyrie's death, since she has NEVER been confirmed alive in red.;)

[rogerpepitone]

Has Kyrie shown any problems riding in vehicles? Besides, Battler knew Kyrie before Asumu died. I think he'd be able to tell the difference between the two of them.

Also: Among the five people in Kyrie's group, he was the first to die. In short, he was the 9th victim.

How about "Rosa is actually Eva's daughter"? (Rosa is mentioned as being much younger than her sibilings.)

[~Ayane~]

Has Kyrie shown any problems riding in vehicles?

thats not excatly deciding factor you know...

How about "Rosa is actually Eva's daughter"? (Rosa is mentioned as being much younger than her sibilings.)

um...why Eva's? o_O

[Kamar]

What about "Kyrie=Asumu"? Does everyone just skip out on the possibility that Asumu changed her name to Kyrie for X reason, with Kyrie already being long dead?

For example, 6 or so years ago, the real Kyrie was killed, but her dying wish or something motivated Asumu to take her place. This fits in with the red of Kyrie's death, since she has NEVER been confirmed alive in red.;)

Among the five people in Kyrie's group, he was the first to die. seems the indicate either that she was alive during the game at some point. (or that Kanon was dead before it started, if you wanna stretch things.)

[rogerpepitone]

Children of unmarried couples usually end up on the mother's side. So if Krauss or Rudolf had gotten a girl pregnant, her parents would have gotten Rosa.

(Woman starts padding her belly while her daughter is pregnant; she arranges for the girl to be pulled from school before she starts to show; they both leave town shortly the due date, and returns home with two kids.)

[~Ayane~]

Children of unmarried couples usually end up on the mother's side. So if Krauss or Rudolf had gotten a girl pregnant, her parents would have gotten Rosa.

firstly, i dont know where did you get the idea that Rosa is a kid of either of them. secondly what you wrote is so sooooo generalized you know? there are thousands of examples for why would daughter be with her father instead of mother. They could threathen her, offer her a large amount of money if she promised to disappear or it could be just that her mother didnt want her and so on :twitch:
and she could died of course too

[rogerpepitone]

Fact: Rosa is much younger than her sibilings.
Hypothesis: Rosa is not Kinzo / Mrs. Kinzo's child, and Mrs. Kinzo is covering up the child's true parentage.
- It's far easier for Eva & Mrs. Kinzo to get away for a little while than it is for "Kyoko" (Krauss / Rudolf's hypothetical GF) and Mrs. Kinzo to get away for a little while.
- There's a stronger stigma against the girl who gets pregnant than the boy who got her pregnant; I doubt there would put the effort protect "Kyoko"'s reputation that she would to protect Eva's.

[~Ayane~]

a)and? what is your point? how do you think something like that would connect and affect the story?
b)do you realise that Rosa is only about 13-15 younger than Eva?
c) You absolutely dont understands Eva's character do you? T_T because she was always looked down upon through all her childhood she was hard worker and she was desperately trying to achieve something better than her brother. I HARDLY doubt that she would get herself pregnant in MIDDLE SCHOOL or at best early high school....
d)most importantly: just because she is much younger doesnt mean anything

[Jan-Poo]

Kasumi being Asumu doesn't really sound right to me.

1) If that's true then all the story that Kasumi told about her envy towards Kyrie makes no sense. Asumu has been living with Rudolf for 12 long years. Kasumi says she couldn't marry the man she loved because she had to become the new successor and she was forced to marry the man that was supposed to marry Kyrie.
Certainly Battler didn't live in the Sumadera estate and certainly Rudolf wasn't the man Kyrie refused to marry.

2) Who the hell are the grandparents that Battler has been living with? They can't be the real ones, else Battler would have noticed that they also happen to be Kyrie's parents, and at that point he would call Kyrie "Kyrie-obasan".

b)do you realise that Rosa is only about 13-15 younger than Eva?

Actually it is more like 15-20.

However it isn't impossible at all for Kinzo and her wife to have children with such a high age difference. Beside, it isn't true that all the other siblings are significantly older. Rudolf is probably about 10 years younger than Krauss. It is confirmed that he was still in elementary school when they moved to Rokkenjima, while Krauss was at least a high schooler if not older.

[Auria]

What about "Kyrie=Asumu"? Does everyone just skip out on the possibility that Asumu changed her name to Kyrie for X reason, with Kyrie already being long dead?

For example, 6 or so years ago, the real Kyrie was killed, but her dying wish or something motivated Asumu to take her place. This fits in with the red of Kyrie's death, since she has NEVER been confirmed alive in red.;)

I stated an idead about Kyrie = Asumu a few days ago in another thread, but my idea goes with another line of thought (which is a bit wacky though) that they have never appeared together in front of Rudolf and Kyrie/Asumu is just acting like the other character, I mean expectation date on the same day wtf? That is a bit much of a coincidence, seems like the person couldn't decide whether to live on as Asumu or Kyrie first XD

[Jan-Poo]

Kyrie=Asumu still incurs in the problem of the grandparents. Who the hell were those people?

Kyrie's father is still alive.

[k//eternal]

Asumu = Kyrie or Kasumi are both interesting but I think they're ultimately crack theories. The latter both because of the grandparents issue, Kyrie not being aware that Asumu was Kasumi, and also how Kasumi is obviously alive (which would have been pretty hard to cover up from Battler); the former because there's no longer a sensible explanation of why Battler got pissed at Rudolf marrying Kyrie.

[~Ayane~]

Actually it is more like 15-20.


well, my calculations tells me that Rosa is about 30-34 and Eva's 43-46 so for me it's about that difference in age

[Jan-Poo]

For Eva to be 43, since she is 3 year older than Natsuhi, it means that Natsuhi is 40. Since it is confirmed that Natsuhi and Krauss have been married for 30 years, it means that Natsuhi married at 10!

That would be illegal actually. Someone showed that at the time the minimum (and I say: minimum) age for a woman to legally marry was 14. so Natsuhi is at the very least 44, and Eva is at the very least 47

one year more than your estimated maximum age.

However I do not think this is a realistic scenario, because Krauss is 5 years older than Natsuhi and if Natsuhi married at 14 then Krauss married at 19.
But Krauss went to the university and he couldn't have possibly ended it before 22, he certainly wasn't a genius. It is doubtful that Krauss was married already.

At any rate you must admit that a scenario that sees Rosa being 15 or more years younger than Eva is definitely more likely than a scenario where she's younger than that. Because Krauss marrying when he was still a minor and Natsuhi an adolescent is totally wrong.

[~Ayane~]

ugh this is so messed up, maybe adults arent supposed to have any specific age ;F for example. if Eva was to give birth to George when she was 24, isnt it a little too late since she was supposed to hurry up with it?

[maximilianjenus]

eva needed to find a good man first, someone who could be aproved as a ushiromiya head and who would be willing to forfeit his family to become an ushiromiya; and more difficult someone who would be patient enough for her bitchiness.

[Marion]

eva needed to find a good man first, someone who could be aproved as a ushiromiya head and who would be willing to forfeit his family to become an ushiromiya; and more difficult someone who would be patient enough for her bitchiness.
I'm pretty sure her marriage was arranged though. At least it's implied to be that way in EP 2 (when she talks with Jessica and Shannon about George and his arranged meeting)

[Workworkwork]

Asumu = Kyrie or Kasumi are both interesting but I think they're ultimately crack theories. The latter both because of the grandparents issue, Kyrie not being aware that Asumu was Kasumi, and also how Kasumi is obviously alive (which would have been pretty hard to cover up from Battler); the former because there's no longer a sensible explanation of why Battler got pissed at Rudolf marrying Kyrie.

Really? Battler was only 12. Plus, there have been similar mix-up cases in real life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina

In that case, the boy grew up believing his mother was his sister. At least until he was about 10.

[Marion]

Really? Battler was only 12. Plus, there have been similar mix-up cases in real life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina

In that case, the boy grew up believing his mother was his sister. At least until he was about 10.
...So Kasumi got pregnant at 5 with Battler, what :heh: But that would make her only in her 30's by 1998, when she should be around Kyrie's age in 1986 (mid 40's) or even older than that.

[Workworkwork]

...So Kasumi got pregnant at 5 with Battler, what :heh: But that would make her only in her 30's by 1998, when she should be around Kyrie's age in 1986 (mid 40's) or even older than that.

You know perfectly well what I meant. That is, that mix-up cases where a child believes a couple are his grandparents.

[Jan-Poo]

Well uhm... I don't quite get who are you suggesting Battler's grandparent are...

[Workworkwork]

Well uhm... I don't quite get who are you suggesting Battler's grandparent are...

Grandparents for hire?:eyespin:

[Marion]

Grandparents for hire?:eyespin:
Seriously.

I doubt Rudolf would just let his son live with two random people who don't even know him for six years.

[k//eternal]

Maybe he went to live with the Sumaderas and they brainwashed him and he commits all the crimes!?

[Ithekro]

Wouldn't all that be against the rules?

[Kaisos Erranon]

Yes, but... hmm, the Sumadera family brainwashing him for some other reason than murder certainly is possible.

...Well, technically, brainwashing isn't real, but not many stories actually pay attention to that fact...

Hell, Battler could simply not be telling the truth. He could easily have returned to the Ushiromiyas for the sole reason of spying on them.

[Marion]

Yes, but... hmm, the Sumadera family brainwashing him for some other reason than murder certainly is possible.

...Well, technically, brainwashing isn't real, but not many stories actually pay attention to that fact...

Hell, Battler could simply not be telling the truth. He could easily have returned to the Ushiromiyas for the sole reason of spying on them.
8|

I highly highly doubt this.

[Kaisos Erranon]

I agree that it's incredibly unlikely, yes.

Unlikely things are very possible in mystery stories, however... doing the opposite of what is expected is the only real way to maintain suspense and create surprise, especially if your audience is composed of mystery buffs.

Just sayin'.

[Ssol]

Bern did mention Ackroyd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murder_of_Roger_Ackroyd)...

[Kaisos Erranon]

Bern did mention Ackroyd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murder_of_Roger_Ackroyd)...

That one is actually a rather interesting example... although it's very true that the narrator-as-the-murderer had been done before (to the point that Knox hated it with a passion) the real twist to the reveal is the setup itself.

It was Christie's third Poirot novel, and at the time it was released, she had put Hastings, the former narrator character, on a boat to the Argentine... and Poirot himself had retired to the country somewhere in between the second novel and this new one. Now, all of a sudden, we have a new narrator, the country doctor, who manages to involve Poirot with the latest mystery.

What the readers are supposed to think is that the book is Christie's way of introducing Poirot into a country setting, with a more competent narrator than poor stupid Hastings... but by the end of the book, something completely unexpected has happened... the narrator, who we are supposed to trust, is revealed as having been the killer all along, completely subverting reader expectations of the outcome.

Why this is revelant to Umineko is because Ryukishi did, and is still doing, the exact same thing to readers of Higurashi.

What's the best way to create surprise in a detective novel? Make a series, then write a book that completely subverts everything done in your earlier works.

So, to solve the mystery, we should be asking ourselves: "What would readers of Higurashi still be expecting at this point?"

This should probably be moved to the spoilers and spec. thread...

[Christen]

Umm, maybe it's time to relocate all of that discussion to the proper thread. There's pages of discussion now in the wrong thread.

[Jan-Poo]

I will quote it on the game speculation thread since it is interesting

[MeoTwister5]

Well the next episode airs in barely 24 hours and we still don't know who will voice Gaap. Any information out there?

[Jan-Poo]

Obviously the information has been snatched by Gaap herself and now no one will ever find it.

[MeoTwister5]

Touche.

Seriously though her VA better be so frakking awesome to be worth the wait.

[Marion]

If not announced her VA should show up in the credit roll - Otsuki didn't get his VA announced either (yes yes, comparing a semi-major to a minor character isn't fair but)

[Escargotage]

2chan link for episode 22: http://dec.2chan.net/18/res/9608192.htm

Enjoy. :3

http://i48.tinypic.com/33ygtgz.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/16hwaqd.jpg

[Marion]

Wow I love Siesta 00's anime design *_*

[Escargotage]

OKAY I KNOW MY FIRST POST HAD PIX AND I PLANNED TO EDIT IT WITH NEW ONES BUT THIS ONE DESERVED A NEW POST ON IT'S OWN, OKAY?

http://i46.tinypic.com/2i95d1j.jpg

[Marion]

asfkfhjksafhakjf

best reaction image yet.

Also why is Rosa wearing her outfit from pre-Rokkenjima, when she was supposedly revived by Beato and then killed by Maria in the game XD? Also they cut out Sakutaro coming to help Rosa before Maria showed up (then again that might have confused anime viewers, so I suppose it's okay)

[Leinne]

BEST face of this episodehttp://dec.2chan.net:81/18/src/1259167694790.jpg

[Serpit]

How come no one's posted this yet?

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5827/1259167180364.jpg

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Gaap's Voice seems to be Kaida Yuki... If 2ch doesn't troll. I need screens to confirm though :|

[Volcanic]

Gaap's Voice seems to be Kaida Yuki... If 2ch doesn't troll. I need screens to confirm though :|

As in, China? :heh: Wow. I wonder how she'll do if it's not a troll.

[Ace of Dragons]

Also why is Rosa wearing her outfit from pre-Rokkenjima, when she was supposedly revived by Beato and then killed by Maria in the game XD?

I think it may be because that was what she was wearing when she ripped up Sakutaro.

[TsundereCake]

Kaida Yuki also plays Angela from Genshiken, who I find to be a somewhat similar character to Gaap (besides the fact that Angela speaks only English.) So if it's not a troll, then I think that she could have a fitting voice.

[MarthX]

Preview for 23 is up

http://www.animate.tv/anime/details.php?id=5&d=1

Looks like the next episode will be very rushed.

[Ttak]

Yep, it seems that the cousin's fight will get somewhat butchered, a shame, but expected

[TsundereCake]

In the words of the great Misato Katsuragi: "Kono tsugi mo sabisu sabisu!"

[June 1983]

Well, I guess some people's fears that Gaap's gap was being downplayed can be put to rest. XD

[ameskitty]

Wow, they're doing the best they can to hide a certain pair of brass weapons...:heh:. Don't blame them though, because that is a kickass WTF YAY moment.

Umm, hopefully they rush the hell out of the Ange parts of this ep, because...this is going to be a stretch :/.

also Krauss and Kanon lolz...hope they keep the AWKWARD ness XD.

[Christen]

As long as they play Victima here, I'll be pleased. And the preview only showed George and Gaap's fight. What's supposed to be happening in the next episode again? By the preview, it seems we're also getting Jessica's fight with Ronove.

[MarthX]

Going by the chapters.

Ange of 1998 talks about the letter and we learn the number in EP3 was a bank account number
Everyone prepares for the test to determine the next head
The test starts

"The Next Head" is easily the longest chapter in the series (at least for the first four games). I don't think it'd be a stretch to say it's 3 times the length of a normal size chapter. The preview shows pretty late in it.

[Ttak]

You're right, we see Ronove's nosebleed there meaning we will get the part where he becomes MARIA's new furniture

[chounokoe]

Wow, they're doing the best they can to hide a certain pair of brass weapons...:heh:. Don't blame them though, because that is a kickass WTF YAY moment.

Umm, hopefully they rush the hell out of the Ange parts of this ep, because...this is going to be a stretch :/.

also Krauss and Kanon lolz...hope they keep the AWKWARD ness XD.

Well I actually hope they rush the hell out of the cousin's fight, because that part was like hell to read and could turn into a pretty boring episode if there's nothing except fighting going on.
Ange's stuff is actually pretty important and I hope they don't sacrifice anything of her investigation in favor of a stretched out brawl.

Of course everyone will whine and curse DEEN again if they don't give the fights half an episode at least, but regarding me they can rush as much as they want through that part...
It would be great if the episode would really end with the escape from the cell...so episode 24 can be all about the escape, the strange phonecalls and could end with Battler meeting Beatrice at the mansion.

[Workworkwork]

Jiggles galore for George VS Gaap.

Even knowing the episode itself will be butchered immensely, I can rest easy just with the preview.

[ameskitty]

Well, if they plan to include the escape (which is admittedly was not really a reasonable assumption for me to have made, I guess), they're not going to have much choice. If they split that off into a separate episode - maybe ending with the goats chasing the escapers? - then they don't need to rush the Ange scene, but yeah.

[MeoTwister5]

Man episode 23 looks like it'll really be chopped up. Necessary evil at this point I guess.

[Christen]

If they do rush this one, we'll probably get the much awaited finales of episode 25 and 26. episode 25 will end at Episode 4's end, and episode 26 will be the tea party and ???.

[momobunny]

Is it me or does the animation look a lot better in the George VS Gaap scenes in the preview? O.o

[Workworkwork]

Is it me or does the animation look a lot better in the George VS Gaap scenes in the preview? O.o

You've never heard of an Animation Bump?

[Leinne]

Youtube link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzbVAnIe1SU
I think they changed the country bumpkin part to Kanon, maybe

[MarthX]

Save the budget for fanservice fight.

[Workworkwork]

Save the budget for fanservice fight.

I hope they didn't blow it all on Gaap v George...

Personally, I'm hoping for Jessica to jiggle with every punch she throws.

[MeoTwister5]

I hope they didn't blow it all on Gaap v George...

Personally, I'm hoping for Jessica to jiggle with every punch she throws.

I agree with this statement.

[momobunny]

I can safely say that if Gaap's tone is like it is in the preview for episode 23, then her voice will be my favorite in all of Umineko. I just find it extremely pleasant to listen to. =w=

[lovelysan]

Random but... Goddamit, I wish Gaap would put a damned bra on :p . (This bothered me in the game too *laughs*.)

[Leinne]

Random but... Goddamit, I wish Gaap would put a damned bra on :p . (This bothered me in the game too *laughs*.)

At least she's wearing panties, I don't think she wore them in the VN

[Workworkwork]

At least she's wearing panties, I don't think she wore them in the VN

I was disappointed at how prudish DEEN was.

They had better uncensor that for the DVDs.

[TheForsaken]

That part'll be censored even in H-anime.

[Marion]

That part'll be censored even in H-anime.
Very true.

It's not like DEEN can flash someone's private parts on screen. Just be happy it's not a mosaic blur.

[June 1983]

I reeeeeeeeaally do not need to see Gaap's animated vag flapping in the breeze, personally.

[momobunny]

o___o;

... yeah, thanks for the image...

[Tjfarmer]

In Japan all genitals are supposed to be censored anyway, so I highly doubt DEEN would want to go and add an uncensored vagina in their final product :P

[maximilianjenus]

What about the usa licensed version ?