Which is better: Samurais or Ninjas?

[Blue*Dragon]

Okey there are 2 anime top fighting style, those are Samurai and Ninja.s/Shinobis.

If you have do choose wich one do you like the best??

For my are Samurai the best they got great weapons, great swords and wich do you like the best??

[Koshiba]

Personally.. I like bother Samurai and Ninja a lot, pirates too. ^_^; I think the best would be.. a swordwielding ninja with an eyepatch.. or something. xD

[gravitation]

i prefer samurai im not sure why but i think they are kooler
P.S(sorcerers are the best and they rock!)

[Kyuven]

Personally.. I like bother Samurai and Ninja a lot, pirates too. ^_^; I think the best would be.. a swordwielding ninja with an eyepatch.. or something. xD
Jubei-chan

[Blue*Dragon]

gravitation i think it is because of the outfit and there weapons, they are different than the Anime Ninja,s used's

[Kyuven]

ninja use weapons too
and kill people before they know what hit them
and wear black (naruto excluded)

[monir]

Thanks almighty,,,I dont have to choose...*sigh*

[Koshiba]

Jubei-chan

OMG YES! Jubei rocks. XD

[[Titan]]

Out of those two, I prefer Samurai. But I somehow like archers and snipers even better :D

[Tzurial]

i prefer samurai im not sure why but i think they are kooler
P.S(sorcerers are the best and they rock!)

Thats because youre Harry Potter!!...im so perceptive

[freedoom]

Lumberjacks are far better than either samurai or ninjas. I mean they have flannel and big axes and chainsaws... and flannel! yes lumberjacks can kick all their asses lumberjack style!

[Tabiree]

Robots. Not your proportionate gundam seed robots or anything like that, but like indestructible tin cans with lasers and mouths and such. Daleks

[freedoom]

Robots. Not your proportionate gundam seed robots or anything like that, but like indestructible tin cans with lasers and mouths and such. Daleks

http://www.farhorizons.org/images/lumberjacks.jpg>http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/supplements/sy2001/images/may/daleks.jpg

[Vicious]

Swords are cooler. And better.
Samurais are much cooler than ninjas, IMO.

[uglypigs]

omg, thats hilarious.

anyway, samurais own. 2 words, Lone Wolf, nuff said.

[freedoom]

Swords are cooler. And better.
Samurais are much cooler than ninjas, IMO.
http://dpls.dacc.wisc.edu/lumbertown/lumberjacks.gif>http://www.bushidodesigns.com/images/samurai.jpg

[Mad Cat]

Why us a sword when you can blast the sword user away with a Ak 47 7.62mm.
If there just is Samurais and Ninjas i must say Ninja and that is becouse they are assasins

[freedoom]

Why us a sword when you can blast the sword user away with a Ak 47 7.62mm.
If there just is Samurais and Ninjas i must say Ninja and that is becouse they are assasins
http://www.hefler.com/images/lumberjack.gif>http://www.diversity-studio.co.uk/flame/ak47-2.jpg

[Tzurial]

Can nothing beat lumberjacks?! What about flying monkeys, I know from experience they look better in flannel than bearded men.

[freedoom]

Leaping from tree to tree! As they float down the mighty rivers of British Columbia! With my best girl by my side!
The Larch!
The Pine!
The Giant Redwood tree!
The Sequoia!
The Little Whopping Rule Tree!
We'd sing! Sing! Sing!

[NenMaster]

dont ninjas carry swords neway. but id rather be himura battousai :)

[freedoom]

Oh, I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay,
I sleep all night and I work all day.

CHORUS: He's a lumberjack, and he's okay,
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

I cut down trees, I eat my lunch,
I go to the lava-try.
On Wednesdays I go shoppin'
And have buttered scones for tea.

Mounties: He cuts down trees, he eats his lunch,
He goes to the lava-try.
On Wednesdays 'e goes shoppin'
And has buttered scones for tea.

CHORUS

I cut down trees, I skip and jump,
I like to press wild flowers.
I put on women's clothing,
And hang around in bars.

Mounties: He cuts down trees, he skips and jumps,
He likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing
And hangs around.... In bars???????

CHORUS

I chop down trees, I wear high heels,
Suspendies and a bra.
I wish I'd been a girlie
Just like my dear papa.

Mounties: He cuts down trees, he wears high heels
Suspendies?? and a .... a Bra????

[Tzurial]

lol

I thought you were so rugged!!

[freedoom]

Can nothing beat lumberjacks?! What about flying monkeys, I know from experience they look better in flannel than bearded men.
http://holymonkey.com/tim/chico/tim-lumberjack.jpg>http://www.hollywood-costumes.com/pics/monkey.jpg

[extarbags]

Chefs own all.

[freedoom]

Chefs own all.
http://www.orofino.com/images/woodchop.jpg>http://www.bugsoft.com/craigh/image/chefs.jpg

[Tchort]

Leaping from tree to tree! As they float down the mighty rivers of British Columbia! With my best girl by my side!
The Larch!
The Pine!
The Giant Redwood tree!
The Sequoia!
The Little Whopping Rule Tree!
We'd sing! Sing! Sing!

He's a lumberjack and he's ok, he sleep all night and he work all day.

Hahaha monty python, wonderful...

Between Samurai and Ninja.. hmm that have to be.... A Viking with a greataxe, yes a real berserker... ... ok I'll cooperate, Samurai.

[Tboz]

Hmm... its getting OT with all the lumberjack talks... :heh:

For me I like both.

Samurai because they can have their Bushido and the wandering ronins, it just add so much variaty and characterisation to them. And don't you all love it when each have their style and personalized katana which is made by some swordsmith who has sworn to live an ordinary life? :naughty:

Ninja I like them for their stealth and mystery. (abit different from Naruto tho... :D) The forbidden arts, the huge variaty of survival skills. Their dedication to their mission... They are an interesting bunch of anti-heroes. :D

[u&t]

Samurai with their weird honor code and sword worship are pretty lame. Not a big fan of ninjas either but since ninjutsu was developed mainly to kill samurai I would have to say that ninjas are cooler.

But yeah. Lumberjacks rule them all. Grandpa was a lumberjack and his father before him. No wimpy samurai and ninja scum in my family.

http://www.kolmilan.info/images/kolmila.jpg

[RavenChild]

i would have to chose samurai over a ninja anyday. one of my favorite animes that i watched (all subbed) is kenshin. 94 episodes 1 movie 4 OVA. if you would like to have blood with your kenshin, go with the OVA. a great movie (not anime) is the seven samurai (subbed).

[Tomomi]

Hmm, I have no idea. For me, it all depends on the plot and the characters. :D

[Silent Spring]

I like samurais because they seem more honorable than ninjas, but then again ninjas are much smarter, instead of running up agianst imposible odds screaming banzai and waving their metal sticks like a mad woman who have been living with too many cats in her one bedroom house by the corner of the old district, ninja cowardly use the night and shadows to attack someone without them having a chance to retaliate.

But then again samurais and ninjas are too old fashioned for me, I prefer Mobile Infantry or even better a Sniper, I guess those can count as modern samurais and ninjas

Anyways for more information on ninjas go to the offical Ninja website
http://www.realultimatepower.net/

" I heard that there was this ninja who was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon the ninja killed the whole town."

[freedoom]

But then again samurais and ninjas are too old fashioned for me, I prefer Mobile Infantry or even better a Sniper, I guess those can count as modern samurais and ninjas

http://www.davidaerickson.com/bustitown/lumberjacks2/lumber8.jpg>http://www.guntactics.com/sniper.jpg

[cindialai]

I think ninjas are like thefts or something like that.. samurais are mainly heros and swords are cooler than ninja stars.

[Mr. Bushido]

wats with the lumberjacks dude.... anyway i got something u cant find pictures of!

Hwarang warriors and samurangs own both samurais and ninjas. Tats right Korean Pride!! hahaha

choose one, there are arguments from which krn group was the origin of the samurais it is either the hwarang or the samurangs. You think its samurangs since the name, but ppl think that their original roots go to the hwarangs. Either way these guys are better! Hwarangs were the best archers in history and conquered all of the penninsula, manchuria, and most of China.

Zoro from One Piece is 2nd best: Santoryu!

But from samurai and ninja, samurai is better. I love katanas, kunais are kinda.... short?

btw: ninjas were first made to assassinate key samurai warriors, they didnt have bushido code so they attacked from the back and such.

[Aquillion]

I'm gonna have to go with the Pope. Even lumberjacks can't compare to the Pope:
http://www.flashback.net/ecard/pope.jpg>http://www.davidaerickson.com/bustitown/lumberjacks2/lumber8.jpg
Here we see the Pope using his Papist Vision to scan the horizon for lumberjacks.

However, even the Pope has problems against the evil power of Archwizard Rumsfeld:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39438000/jpg/_39438286_203b_hands_ap.jpg

[Tboz]

But from samurai and ninja, samurai is better. I love katanas, kunais are kinda.... short? Hmm... I thought kunai is a throwing knife, more lethal than shuriken. Don't think they use that to fight.

The swords they use are shorter than the average katana. It is straight not curved, making it easier for backstabbing. Don't know what they are called though... :p

[JubeiYamazaki]

Historically and in anime, I'd prefer ninjas over samurai's.


Samurai's follow a code of honor and have a deep symbolism/spiritual connection to their katana/bushido, when the mind, soul, body and weapon are all in-tune only then could you call yourself a true warrior.

On the otherhand... ninjas didn't give a shit about any of that spiritual crap. They were taught to survive, and complete missions. The displine of a samurai was taught to strike your enemy with one blow with their katana ( since sword clashing with katanas would almost result in breaking.) while Ninjitsu was also taught in the sameway, but.. they were taught to take out an opponent with one deathblow in ANY situation, unarmed, with a sword, a staff, anything. Also ninjas "cheated" in combat. (Ninjas had katanas too but a far smaller verison which they usually kept hidden in either upper robe.) Some ninjas even put powder in their holsters or on the sides of the handles of their katanas so when they unsheathed it, the powder would instantly blind their opponent. Plus they sometimes fitted their handles with kunai's wrapped around the sides, so if two swords clashed, they could easily slide out a kunai from the handle and toss it/stab their opponent.

Also most weapons like the sythe with a chain that had a ball at the end, the twin pick-axe looking weapons, and a specialily made rope (used in unarmed) were all ninja exculsive, while Samurai's only had their katana wakasushi (?) or a bow and arrow.

[u&t]

Other cool ninja trivia:

The samurai were insanely attached to their swords. Therefore the smartass ninjas ritually scrape the tip of their swords into the ground when facing an enemy. A well-behaved samurai will get enourmously pissed off over this dishonorable act and then do something stupid like getting a sword in his eye or something....

Don't know hor true that story really is but from what I've read about the bushido code the samurai sure seemed like a bunch of upthight a#¤holes. Samurai are only good for whacking peasants so at least:

http://www.kfunigraz.ac.at/ub/ausstellungen/japan/samurai.jpg>http://www.central.k12.ca.us/akers/peasant.gif

[Mr. Bushido]

Hmm... I thought kunai is a throwing knife, more lethal than shuriken. Don't think they use that to fight.

The swords they use are shorter than the average katana. It is straight not curved, making it easier for backstabbing. Don't know what they are called though... :p

srry historically untrue. Ninjas used curved katanas more than they used straight.
the rusted their weapons so ppl who get cut by them would die of poison.

[extarbags]

Other cool ninja trivia:

The samurai were insanely attached to their swords. Therefore the smartass ninjas ritually scrape the tip of their swords into the ground when facing an enemy. A well-behaved samurai will get enourmously pissed off over this dishonorable act and then do something stupid like getting a sword in his eye or something....


Yeah, because ninjas fought samurai head-on all the time...


moron.

[extarbags]

srry historically untrue. Ninjas used curved katanas more than they used straight.
the rusted their weapons so ppl who get cut by them would die of poison.

Jesus Christ, where do you idiots come from? Ninjas weren't swordfighters. They were assassins. They rarely, if ever, used katanas at all, because katanas are for swordfighting, not assassination, and they are much more difficult to wield than, say, a wakizashi. Also, rust isn't poison.

[Kuroi_Washi]

Hey extarbags:

1.- Dont insult people, that is an invitation for a flame war.

2.- Rust is a poison in a sort of way, because, there is a bacteria call Clostridium Tetani, that produces Tetanus (sp) that will infect the person from a flesh wound, and it will enter in the muscle producing a spasm, and then it will go up the nerv of the local wound area, to the nerv sistem, brain and spine, there it will do the same that is did in the wound, but this time it will start in the jaw shutting it tight, then it will go to every muscle in the body, producing a general spasm, including, the diafram muscle, that is the principal controler of the respiration, so the person dies from asfixia and in an extreme pain.

PS: <-- Med student, and i had that test today...., sorry if i miss some spelling, im not used to write these stuff in english, my main language is spanish.

[extarbags]

Hey extarbags:

1.- Dont insult people, that is an invitation for a flame war.

2.- Rust is a poison in a sort of way, because, there is a bacteria call Clostridium Tetani, that produces Tetanus (sp) that will infect the person from a flesh wound, and it will enter in the muscle producing a spasm, and then it will go up the nerv of the local wound area, to the nerv sistem, brain and spine, there it will do the same that is did in the wound, but this time it will start in the jaw shutting it tight, then it will go to every muscle in the body, producing a general spasm, including, the diafram muscle, that is the principal controler of the respiration, so the person dies from asfixia and in an extreme pain.

PS: <-- Med student, and i had that test today...., sorry if i miss some spelling, im not used to write these stuff in english, my main language is spanish.

1. Tool.

2. Tetanus is not poison either.

PS: I hope your class isn't called "Knowing What Ninjas Did 101," because if it is, you fail.

[Kuroi_Washi]

Man, you really working on your attitud. You still taunting people to try take a shoot at you so you can take a shoot on them too.

Tetanus is not a poison in definition, but it works that way for the effect of it, remember in that time dieing by unseen causes (e.g uknown bacterias) it was consider or curse or poison. BTW, the tetanus is produce by a toxine produced by the bacteria, so that is a poison.

And DOH im not studying Knowing What ninjas did 101, but are you!!!!!, dont try to apear like the smartest one here.

[Mr. Bushido]

Jesus Christ, where do you idiots come from? Ninjas weren't swordfighters. They were assassins. They rarely, if ever, used katanas at all, because katanas are for swordfighting, not assassination, and they are much more difficult to wield than, say, a wakizashi. Also, rust isn't poison.


Yea.... uh if u got cut by something tat was rusted, ud die pretty quickly. (Unless u get a tetnaus shot)

yea they used swords, not often but they did. And when they did they used curved rather than straight. u think they didnt train with swords? Honestly Japanese national gaurd still train sword fighting.

Wat ninja's did 101? honestly do u know everything about ninjas?

[u&t]

moron.

W00t !!!!

Instead of a counterflame I'll just give you a moronic what-I-did-on-friday-evening posting. For me it's currently 3.30 am. Figure out the timezones yourselves. I'm too drunk to flame back but I feel the need to post something. Here is the story of my evening:

1) Sends the sms "booze!?" to a friend. Friend replies "yeah, meet me at place X"
2) Meets friend at place X and haves a good time. It is revealed that friend is only there because friend is besotted with one of the guys in some floorball team having party at place X.
3) person of interest is not there because of some sort of personal illness. Everyone just drinks beer instead. Then friend has to go home and sleep. u&t is now alone
4) u&t calls friend 2 and go to person Y's place to have a drink.
5) u&t, Y and a bunch of other people g to bar Z to drink more beer. u&t has a lenghty but forgettable discussion covering lots of intellectual topics with Y's big sister. The bar closes and everyone goes home.
6) while riding the standard bike home u&t finds derlict bike on bridge and steals(claims!) it
7) u&t passes cops giving someone a ticket with stolen(claimed!) bike on shoulder. u&t passes by the cop happily whisteling some Belle and Sebastian tune knowing that pig is to busy to do anything
8) u&t writes pointless post proving u&t's lack of intelligence.

Ahh, that feels better... Me and the new bike will be happy together...

[freedoom]

Yea.... uh if u got cut by something tat was rusted, ud die pretty quickly. (Unless u get a tetnaus shot)

yea they used swords, not often but they did. And when they did they used curved rather than straight. u think they didnt train with swords? Honestly Japanese national gaurd still train sword fighting.

Wat ninja's did 101? honestly do u know everything about ninjas?

"Symptoms usually begin 8 days after the infection, but may range in onset from 3 days to 3 weeks." from http://www.nfid.org/factsheets/tetanusadult.html

he didnt say they never used swords. he implied they didnt carry arround katans cause they are too big.

[Mr. Bushido]

"Symptoms usually begin 8 days after the infection, but may range in onset from 3 days to 3 weeks." from http://www.nfid.org/factsheets/tetanusadult.html

he didnt say they never used swords. he implied they didnt carry arround katans cause they are too big.

8 days really? my dad stepped on a rusted nail before and he's body had the symptoms in 3 hrs, and im talking about when he was in his prime. Hes a military guy too. Or it has nothing to do with health?

[freedoom]

8 days really? my dad stepped on a rusted nail before and he's body had the symptoms in 3 hrs, and im talking about when he was in his prime. Hes a military guy too. Or it has nothing to do with health?

I found another site that said it takes 7-21 days to develop because it takes that long for the bacteria to hit the spinal column http://my.webmd.com/content/article/7/1680_53926

[freedoom]

while i'm at it:
http://www.jeffshelly.com/images/bwimages/lumberjack.jpg>http://www.historique.net/microbes/images/tetanus.gifsomeone with tetanus

[krel]

ninjas would kill samurais in their sleep.

[freedoom]

ninjas would kill samurais in their sleep.

are the ninjas asleep or are the samurai asleep?

and why are you on topic?

[Mr. Bushido]

im not a medical type of guy. hahaha, i hated AP bio class, and never will i take another hard level biology class. Im a physics type of guy.

i think he meant ninjas would kill samurais while the samurais are sleeping.
Thats cuz they have no HONOR code, which is more rational actually when it comes to war. Ninjas are more like military today, KILL THEM IN ANYWAY POSSIBLE. but today we have something called "dont touch civilians" thats different.

well back then ppl didnt know tentnaus and such... but how did the ninja's find out? Well ppl that these ninjas were using sort of a "sorcery" which is where "ninjitsu" came from. today ninjitsu is not wat they called it back then. Ninja's used a lot of tricks that made ppl believe that they might have been a bit extraordinary. Today we have explantions for all of their tricks. (The ones we know of)

[krel]

when the samurais are sleeping of course. zoro is right ninjas will kill em anyway possible.

[Tboz]

Hmm... so ninja's if ever they engage in swordfights will use something like the wakizashi? Then for dealing the one hit fatal blow from the back, they will use the straight ninja swords?

The thing is, do ninjas ever engage in swordfights to kill their target? I think not, they will likely hold them off abit and then escape with some tricks. Since they have no honor, failing doesn't mean anything. They can always try again, as long as they complete the mission in the end or get themselves killed... correct? :o

[Flash_Squirrel]

while Samurai's only had their katana wakasushi (?) or a bow and arrow.

Wakizashi. Also they might carry a Daito, a Tachi, a Tanto or a Aikuchi, not just "bow and arrow" -_-;;

The swords they use are shorter than the average katana. It is straight not curved, making it easier for backstabbing. Don't know what they are called though... :p

Ninja-To

failing doesn't mean anything. They can always try again, as long as they complete the mission in the end

I remember in a book about a story featuring the old japanese feudal age, that a ninja, after seeing his brother chopped by the shogun personal bodyguards, moved near the corpse and kicked him because he jumped out too fast, and thus he ruiden the mission.

[krel]

The thing is, do ninjas ever engage in swordfights to kill their target? I think not, they will likely hold them off abit and then escape with some tricks. Since they have no honor, failing doesn't mean anything. They can always try again, as long as they complete the mission in the end or get themselves killed... correct? :o

ninjas will probably not engage in sword fights to kill the target. like i said, they'll kill you in your sleep or when you least expect it, poison your food/drink, that kinda stuff.

[Mr. Bushido]

ninjas will probably not engage in sword fights to kill the target. like i said, they'll kill you in your sleep or when you least expect it, poison your food/drink, that kinda stuff.

but sometimes its inevitable. They wouldnt run away tho... cuz if u fail the mission, the ninjas might kill u for ur failure. (the samurais kill themselves)

[krel]

yeah, they would do it as a last resort. they'll probably use stuff like shuriken, which are actually poisoned to kill their oppenents.

[Tboz]

I remember in a book about a story featuring the old japanese feudal age, that a ninja, after seeing his brother chopped by the shogun personal bodyguards, moved near the corpse and kicked him because he jumped out too fast, and thus he ruiden the mission.but sometimes its inevitable. They wouldnt run away tho... cuz if u fail the mission, the ninjas might kill u for ur failure. (the samurais kill themselves) Ic... :p

Interesting in how samurai and ninja look at failures differently. One sees it as a taint to their pride and honor while the other sees it as an uncompromise to the success of the mission. :o

[krel]

actually, i don't think you can compare ninja's and samurai's, cause they have different purposes. samurai are swordsmen, kindalike elite soldiers, while ninjas are assasins, and sometimes do espionage stuff if i'm not mistaken. it's like comparing a fighter pilot and a tank commander. both drive vehicles to kill, but the vehicles they use are different. :D

[Silent Spring]

But one job of a fighter pilot is to take out the tanks, and tanks do have some ground to air defenses

[Mr. Bushido]

But one job of a fighter pilot is to take out the tanks, and tanks do have some ground to air defenses

like wat? Remember jets go at the speed of sound now, they have AA rockets and missles, but its not attached to tanks.

We dont really have tank-hunter planes anymore really. Especially the US and their behemoths called Abram Tanks, B-52 bomber, A-1 Warhogs. The US military doesnt take tanks out with planes anymore, look at Iraq the only thing the planes did was bomb bunkers and buildings.

and even so, ninjas were assigned to kill some samurais and samurais were to kill ninjas when they see them.

Samurais are the Marines, while the ninjas are like the CIA or FBI. different jobs.

[krel]

But one job of a fighter pilot is to take out the tanks, and tanks do have some ground to air defenses

:eyespin:

Samurais are the Marines, while the ninjas are like the CIA or FBI. different jobs.

what i was talking about.

[Mr. Bushido]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Silent Spring
But one job of a fighter pilot is to take out the tanks, and tanks do have some ground to air defenses
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Zoro
Samurais are the Marines, while the ninjas are like the CIA or FBI. different jobs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


what i was talking about.




Yea i know. But jets and tanks have a similar job: blow the hell out of the enemy. so i thought id use something that are more similar to the jobs of samurai and ninjas. Marines are our main fighting force, while CIA and FBI does investigation, and some occations assination.

[Kamui4356]

like wat? Remember jets go at the speed of sound now, they have AA rockets and missles, but its not attached to tanks.

We dont really have tank-hunter planes anymore really. Especially the US and their behemoths called Abram Tanks, B-52 bomber, A-1 Warhogs. The US military doesnt take tanks out with planes anymore, look at Iraq the only thing the planes did was bomb bunkers and buildings.
True, the military is going for more general purpose weapons. Hard to blame them when a jet can cost upwards of 90 million dollars. Attack copters are the primary airborne anti-tank weapons platform, but since they fly slowly, they're more vunerable to ground fire.
Anyway to get on topic, ninjas are better than samurai since they will do anything to accomplish their mission. I'd say ninjas are most like current special forces if they'd operate without any restrictions placed on them.

[Mr. Bushido]

True, the military is going for more general purpose weapons. Hard to blame them when a jet can cost upwards of 90 million dollars. Attack copters are the primary airborne anti-tank weapons platform, but since they fly slowly, they're more vunerable to ground fire.
Anyway to get on topic, ninjas are better than samurai since they will do anything to accomplish their mission. I'd say ninjas are most like current special forces if they'd operate without any restrictions placed on them.

choppers are not slow, i mean slower and lower so RPG's can easily target them, but they are far from slow.

samurais do all they can to acomplish the mission as well, as soilders. They have an honor system that doesnt let them do certain things tho.

special forces?? like rangers, delta force, green beret? Nope... ninjas are not like them at all in anyway. In fact besides espionage, there isnt much things the ninja's resemble in the military (of the US)

the US doesnt even send troops anymore hahaha. its just tomhawk missles tat can actually aim straight at a target and hit it. Maybe the ninja are more like the missles..... or stealth bombers.

[Silent Spring]

the US doesnt even send troops anymore hahaha. its just tomhawk missles tat can actually aim straight at a target and hit it. Maybe the ninja are more like the missles..... or stealth bombers.

Hehe, these analogies are getting really creative. Ninjas aren't really kike tomahawk because they don't.... explode. And they weren't just a one use thing. And stealth bombers aren't invisable, just hard to detect on radar, they can still be followed and taken down with new image lock missles, or even heat seekers. And ninjas aren't like the CIA because they never killed Kenedy.

I'm still sticking with my analogy that ninjas are like Snipers, and samurais aren't really like marines because samurais are elite fighters, so samurais are more like modern day Green Berets, Seals, or Delta force (but these units are still kinda sneaky)

Also jets are used to take out tanks, they drop laser guided smart bombs, and also only jets carry neutron bombs. Which are used to take out whole tank battalions. But new tanks cane be fited with heat seekers, I'm not sure about the image lock missles though.

[Hellychan]

moron.

Jesus Christ, where do you idiots come from?

extarbags > Read the Forum Rules (http://forums.animesuki.com/announcement.php?f=16)

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[Pervert Sennin]

i think Ninja's because they where fantastic i think in all the thing they did :bow:

[Mr. Bushido]

Hehe, these analogies are getting really creative. Ninjas aren't really kike tomahawk because they don't.... explode. And they weren't just a one use thing. And stealth bombers aren't invisable, just hard to detect on radar, they can still be followed and taken down with new image lock missles, or even heat seekers. And ninjas aren't like the CIA because they never killed Kenedy.

I'm still sticking with my analogy that ninjas are like Snipers, and samurais aren't really like marines because samurais are elite fighters, so samurais are more like modern day Green Berets, Seals, or Delta force (but these units are still kinda sneaky)

Also jets are used to take out tanks, they drop laser guided smart bombs, and also only jets carry neutron bombs. Which are used to take out whole tank battalions. But new tanks cane be fited with heat seekers, I'm not sure about the image lock missles though.

Marines are elite army, the ARMY is the regular troops.
ninjas arent invisible too, we can see them with our eyes too and attack them... its just stealth bombers and ninjas are both supposed to be UNNOTICED not unseen. (well u know wat i mean)

ninjas killed shogun and other leaders.... so how does it differ from killing kennedy?

snipers dont infiltrate, steal, or spy. They just shoot...

Hmmm... if i was an airforce general i wouldnt use my jets to take out tanks, (unless its a big battalion). Ill just wait till the navy bombs the hell out of the land with cruise missles, battleships (if they decide to use it), then ill send in the "cavarly" and use a hell of B-52s to bomb the land. Then ill let the navy send in the marines which are the strongest of the US infantry really. Left over tanks from the bombing will be taken out by the US tanks which are stronger. Hell our humvees will take out tanks.

im looking at my US military book, and i dont see anti-air tanks... which country were you talking about? and wat war??? In the last two decades tanks were taken out with choppers, our own tanks, and infantry. Our planes flew and just bombed the land. Sure in ww2 we had p-52 Mustangs as our tank hunters, but i doubt wed use F-22s for the same purpose.

samurais were the japanese soilders....period. Other than the samurais they took peasants and drafted them during war. Archers were also samurais who just specialized in shooting rather than swords. If you study japanese history youd know that they relied HEAVILY on their swords. Elite soldiers... maybe, but they were the army.

[Silent Spring]

Marines are elite army, the ARMY is the regular troops.
ninjas arent invisible too, we can see them with our eyes too and attack them... its just stealth bombers and ninjas are both supposed to be UNNOTICED not unseen. (well u know wat i mean)

ninjas killed shogun and other leaders.... so how does it differ from killing kennedy?

snipers dont infiltrate, steal, or spy. They just shoot...

Hmmm... if i was an airforce general i wouldnt use my jets to take out tanks, (unless its a big battalion). Ill just wait till the navy bombs the hell out of the land with cruise missles, battleships (if they decide to use it), then ill send in the "cavarly" and use a hell of B-52s to bomb the land. Then ill let the navy send in the marines which are the strongest of the US infantry really. Left over tanks from the bombing will be taken out by the US tanks which are stronger. Hell our humvees will take out tanks.

im looking at my US military book, and i dont see anti-air tanks... which country were you talking about? and wat war??? In the last two decades tanks were taken out with choppers, our own tanks, and infantry. Our planes flew and just bombed the land. Sure in ww2 we had p-52 Mustangs as our tank hunters, but i doubt wed use F-22s for the same purpose.

samurais were the japanese soilders....period. Other than the samurais they took peasants and drafted them during war. Archers were also samurais who just specialized in shooting rather than swords. If you study japanese history youd know that they relied HEAVILY on their swords. Elite soldiers... maybe, but they were the army.

Marines are not the elite of the army, they are two different things. There are 4 branches of the United States military that are used for different purposes. The Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. Army and Marines are not under the same administration. Although the army and marines do very similar jobs they are not the same thing or apart of the other. Marines are usually stationed with the Navy on ships and come in from the sea. While Army usually comes in on land. Plus each branch has their elite fighting force. Army has their Rangers, Navy has their Seals, I'm not sure about Marines or Air Force but I think they have something.

Also Nutron bombs have never actually been used, I don't think, but they are not ment to destroy tanks they take out whole tank battalion's crews and men, while leaving the actually equipment and tanks undamaged, it's a radioactive weapon and only jets can drop them. And Hornets do drop laser guilded bombs, when a soldier has targeted something. This was used even in desert strom. Also cluster bombs can only be dropped by jets.

Even though samurais were soldiers they were elite trained soldiers not like the regualr forces which were poorly trained and carried sticks as weapons and usually didn't have any armor. Also snipers do spy on people, they can refit sniper rifles to have cameras in their scopes.

[Mr. Bushido]

Marines are not the elite of the army, they are two different things. There are 4 branches of the United States military that are used for different purposes. The Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. Army and Marines are not under the same administration. Although the army and marines do very similar jobs they are not the same thing or apart of the other. Marines are usually stationed with the Navy on ships and come in from the sea. While Army usually comes in on land. Plus each branch has their elite fighting force. Army has their Rangers, Navy has their Seals, I'm not sure about Marines or Air Force but I think they have something.

Also Nutron bombs have never actually been used, I don't think, but they are not ment to destroy tanks they take out whole tank battalion's crews and men, while leaving the actually equipment and tanks undamaged, it's a radioactive weapon and only jets can drop them. And Hornets do drop laser guilded bombs, when a soldier has targeted something. This was used even in desert strom. Also cluster bombs can only be dropped by jets.

Even though samurais were soldiers they were elite trained soldiers not like the regualr forces which were poorly trained and carried sticks as weapons and usually didn't have any armor. Also snipers do spy on people, they can refit sniper rifles to have cameras in their scopes.

marines are part of the military, tats wat i meant.
marines are part of the navy, so if seals are navy's elite, than marines are not it.
Air force elites are the supersonic jet fighters. They need 20/20 vision, TIP TOP shape, not to big, not too small, and HIGH reactions speeds. they are the elites.
yea but those bombs are not generally for tank targeting, its a bombing thing that just bombs the area, not specifically a tank hunter
Yea i know wat a neutron bomb is, and no they have yet to use it. even laser guided bombs are usually not directed at tanks. Of course we havent fought an army with a powerful tank battalion for a while. If we do, the only army tat can match us with tanks are the chinese, but htey have HORRIBLE mobility. (not the tanks but the army in general)
actually in japan they didnt have an army besides the samurais and the archers in those times. Want to know something funny? Europe was the same, they had archers, engineers, knights. THat was the army. the ppl carrying pikes, spears, and sticks... those are the peasants and surfs tat are drafted during war. Especialy in Japan, they had nothing more than samurais and such. People think they are elite because other than war times they are the only force.
places like korea which was continually being attacked, needed a well balanced army at all times, so they had engineers working up the ass and archers trained like crazy. The result? first ironclad, frst rockets, best archers (still are by stats!). Japan was an island, they had the 2nd most powerful navy in the pacific (2nd only to korea beacuse of the new turtle boats which are ironclads) and thats all they needed, a strong navy. And the samurais were the soldiers.

btw samurais werent trained a lot by the military, they were expected to learn before they join the army.

[shiznitty]

yeah, there's a pretty neat article about samurais in the latest issue of National Geographic. It's pretty interesting and worth picking up

[K_R]

Some misconceptions:

the regualr forces which were poorly trained and carried sticks as weapons and usually didn't have any armor.


actually in japan they didnt have an army besides the samurais and the archers in those times. Want to know something funny? Europe was the same, they had archers, engineers, knights. THat was the army. the ppl carrying pikes, spears, and sticks... those are the peasants and surfs tat are drafted during war. Especialy in Japan, they had nothing more than samurais and such. People think they are elite because other than war times they are the only force.

A Daimyo's army consistedly mainly of ashigaru (generally peasants drafted into service), who outnumbered the samurai. Ashigaru were initially armed and trained with spears then, as we approach the end of the Sengokujidai, the arquebus - think of the battle of Nagashino, where Nobunaga deployed 3000 guns. The Shimazu clan even trained snipers with the express mission to take out enemy commanders.

So, to Zoro, there were more than just samurai and samurai archers in a medieval Japanese army. And to Silent Spring, the ashigaru were not armed with sticks and were not poorly trained.

Samurai, in a sense, are the elite of an army, just as heavy knights were the elite in a late period medieval army. Of course, there would be varying degrees of 'eliteness' within the samurai.

And as time went on, the bow saw less usage - superceded by 鉄砲足軽 (arquebus ashigaru).

[NenMaster]

here we go again, why not make a new thread for all that?
none of that is relavent to this thread,.

[Mr. Bushido]

Some misconceptions:





A Daimyo's army consistedly mainly of ashigaru (generally peasants drafted into service), who outnumbered the samurai. Ashigaru were initially armed and trained with spears then, as we approach the end of the Sengokujidai, the arquebus - think of the battle of Nagashino, where Nobunaga deployed 3000 guns. The Shimazu clan even trained snipers with the express mission to take out enemy commanders.

So, to Zoro, there were more than just samurai and samurai archers in a medieval Japanese army. And to Silent Spring, the ashigaru were not armed with sticks and were not poorly trained.

Samurai, in a sense, are the elite of an army, just as heavy knights were the elite in a late period medieval army. Of course, there would be varying degrees of 'eliteness' within the samurai.

And as time went on, the bow saw less usage - superceded by 鉄砲足軽 (arquebus ashigaru).

if you read my posts u would know thats exactly wat i was saying!! they were peasants drafted for war, thats wat i was saying. did u even read the posts carefully?

[K_R]

if you read my posts u would know thats exactly wat i was saying!! they were peasants drafted for war, thats wat i was saying. did u even read the posts carefully?

Actually you contradict yourself, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. At one point you say there are conscripts as well as samurai, "Other than the samurais they took peasants and drafted them during war." Then you say there are only samurai, "actually in japan they didnt have an army besides the samurais [sic] and the archers in those times. " You should make yourself clear or people won't be able to understand anything you are trying to say.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with the topic.

I like samurai, especially practitioners of 二刀.

[Silent Spring]

marines are part of the military, tats wat i meant.
marines are part of the navy, so if seals are navy's elite, than marines are not it.
Air force elites are the supersonic jet fighters. They need 20/20 vision, TIP TOP shape, not to big, not too small, and HIGH reactions speeds. they are the elites.
yea but those bombs are not generally for tank targeting, its a bombing thing that just bombs the area, not specifically a tank hunter
Yea i know wat a neutron bomb is, and no they have yet to use it. even laser guided bombs are usually not directed at tanks. Of course we havent fought an army with a powerful tank battalion for a while. If we do, the only army tat can match us with tanks are the chinese, but htey have HORRIBLE mobility. (not the tanks but the army in general)
actually in japan they didnt have an army besides the samurais and the archers in those times. Want to know something funny? Europe was the same, they had archers, engineers, knights. THat was the army. the ppl carrying pikes, spears, and sticks... those are the peasants and surfs tat are drafted during war. Especialy in Japan, they had nothing more than samurais and such. People think they are elite because other than war times they are the only force.
places like korea which was continually being attacked, needed a well balanced army at all times, so they had engineers working up the ass and archers trained like crazy. The result? first ironclad, frst rockets, best archers (still are by stats!). Japan was an island, they had the 2nd most powerful navy in the pacific (2nd only to korea beacuse of the new turtle boats which are ironclads) and thats all they needed, a strong navy. And the samurais were the soldiers.

btw samurais werent trained a lot by the military, they were expected to learn before they join the army.


Korea did not develop the first ironclads. The United States did in the Civil War. I am sure of this, the first ironclad in the world was the CSS Virginia of the condederate navy and the second was the USS Monitor of the Union. They were the first but then was followed by huge production of steel ships because those two ships were very effective, because cannonballs just bounced off it. Also the koreans did not develop the first rockets, the Germans did during WWII with their V1 rockets, followed by their V2s. They were the first to develop turbine engines.

And you can't really match any country's tank force's mobility with the United State's Armor division, because the United States us M1 Abrams, it is powered by a turbine engine, no tank in match it for speed. But firepower, armor and technology wise the Chinese Generations can match the Abrams, and the British Challengers can too I think although the Abrams fire delepted uranium shells. German Leopards are also pretty cool but they are only a 105mm

Also the Marines are also not apart of the Navy, they also are two sperate branchs, they are just stations on naval ships. But I know fighter pilots are suppose to be eilte but I was think more of ground combat, I think they have an elite paratrooper unit.

A Daimyo's army consistedly mainly of ashigaru (generally peasants drafted into service), who outnumbered the samurai. Ashigaru were initially armed and trained with spears then, as we approach the end of the Sengokujidai, the arquebus - think of the battle of Nagashino, where Nobunaga deployed 3000 guns. The Shimazu clan even trained snipers with the express mission to take out enemy commanders.

When was this? Snipers never really came about till the 1850s but even then they weren't really snipers, they were just soldiers armed with rifles that had farther range, and called marksmen. It was a new tactic introduced during the civil war. snipers couldn't really exist before then because the rifles were too inacurate, they were smoothbore guns. Also I was exagerating when I said armed with sticks, but if you think about it spears are mostly sticks :D Also they were poorly train compared to samurais.

Also Nenmater, I think I will. Take that people who don't believe in me

[Mr. Bushido]

Korea did not develop the first ironclads. The United States did in the Civil War. I am sure of this, the first ironclad in the world was the CSS Virginia of the condederate navy and the second was the USS Monitor of the Union. They were the first but then was followed by huge production of steel ships because those two ships were very effective, because cannonballs just bounced off it. Also the koreans did not develop the first rockets, the Germans did during WWII with their V1 rockets, followed by their V2s. They were the first to develop turbine engines.

And you can't really match any country's tank force's mobility with the United State's Armor division, because the United States us M1 Abrams, it is powered by a turbine engine, no tank in match it for speed. But firepower, armor and technology wise the Chinese Generations can match the Abrams, and the British Challengers can too I think although the Abrams fire delepted uranium shells. German Leopards are also pretty cool but they are only a 105mm

Also the Marines are also not apart of the Navy, they also are two sperate branchs, they are just stations on naval ships. But I know fighter pilots are suppose to be eilte but I was think more of ground combat, I think they have an elite paratrooper unit.



When was this? Snipers never really came about till the 1850s but even then they weren't really snipers, they were just soldiers armed with rifles that had farther range, and called marksmen. It was a new tactic introduced during the civil war. snipers couldn't really exist before then because the rifles were too inacurate, they were smoothbore guns. Also I was exagerating when I said armed with sticks, but if you think about it spears are mostly sticks :D Also they were poorly train compared to samurais.

Also Nenmater, I think I will. Take that people who don't believe in me


you dont know the krn history well do you?

FIRST IRON CLAD: CIRCA 1400 INVENTED BY ADMIRAL YI. IT WAS CALLED THE KABUKSAN ALSO KNOWN AS TURTULE SHIP. yea, ppl dont know about it too well since it wasnt 100% iron. But by history, and the way the ship was built, today they call it an iron clad, so it became the world's first ironclad. (i personally wouldnt call it an ironclad, but thats wat historians call it)

frst rockets: again ure thinking too advnaced. the first rockets were fired from multiple pods. IT was basically a giant arrow propelled by primitive fire cracker type of things. I called it a advanced balista, but again historians call it first rocketry in battle mainly because it exploded with sharpnels. Very effective against tightly formated samurais

[qazered]

:thinker: :thinker: :thinker: :thinker: :thinker: :thinker: :thinker: :thinker:

oh man ninjas are soooooooooo much better but i do have to give it to some of the bad ass samuri they are almost as cool as ninjas but seriously ninjas are soo badass.

wait a sec i got it the ultimate killing machine ever has been given to me by one of my friends now all should bow before the:

NINJAPIRATEJEDISHEEPDINASORPENGUINROSTERCABOOSE



IT IS PERFECT THINK ABOUT ITS MAGISTY!!!!!

[Evan]

I like both samurai and ninjas....................coolZ!!

[kj1980]

Neither. My family comes from the class of merchants. And I am proud of it that
we were the lowest class in the caste system. Why? Because under that system,
we were considered to be lower than peasants because "we do not directly
contribute to society - we make money by selling people's stuffs." However, the
interesting thing was that even we were the lowest caste member, we were also
the richest and wealthiest of all. By the end of the bakufu, we were actually giving
loans and credits to the highest caste - the samurai since they couldn't pay their
debts.

Ah, merchant capitalism - the way to go to buy yourself wealth and power by
utilizing the weakness of the samurais.

[Sethi]

I like both they are both cool and with awesome techniques, but if i had to chose one i would prefer Samurai.
Those Katanas along with the Wakisashi with those Samurai outfits are just too damn cool, not to mention they have that code of them that makes them look all bad and honorable very nice.

[Lina Inverse]

First off, Samurai and Ninja are completely different from each other, so you can hardly compare them.

A samurai is a warrior that is devoted to his master with and bound to him with his bushido (codex of honor) until death. They were practically responsible for their master's well-being, so if their master died and they stayed alive, they would be without honor and become a "ronin". Many samurai suicided when their master died. Those that chjose to live on as ronin often didn't care about any rules at all anymore, since they were already without honor and couldn't lose it anymore by breaking the rules.
A samurai relies on his techniques and most times wears the typical samurai uniform. He uses a katana most of the time.

A ninja, however, doesn't have a bushido. He is clad all in black, only eyes visible, and relies on stealth and speed to assassinate his enemies from the shadows, most times using shuriken (otptionally poisoned) or poisoned blow darts. He might also carry a wakazashi, but will probably not use it very often.
There are also female ninja, although this is quite rare. They are called "kunoichi".

In an open man to man fight, a ninja probably wouldn't stand a chance against a samurai, because the samurai is armored, has better weapons and more combat techniques to resort to.

[rEkKaShInObI]

Live by the sword, die by the sword(samurai) VS do whatever it takes to get the job done (ninja) ?

and whats ronin translate into?

[Slade xTekno]

Lol, funny thread. I will right from a Martial-Artist's standpoint.
In a straight fight, a Samurai would win. Why? A samurai's training assumes that the opponent will face him straight on. He doesn't expect anything "dishonorable."
However, in a no-hold-barred fight, a Ninja should win. Ninjas are not above foul tactics, and often have many hidden secrets they can use to exploit the weaknesses in the Samurai fighting style.
Even though Ninjitsu is called a Martial Art by some, it's not very combat-oriented. It originally dealt with stealth, tip-top physical shape, improvisation, and psychology over fighting.
Ninja were conditioned from youth to do amazing things with their bodies, like super-high standing jumps, running a day without rest, and the ability to safely dislocate joints. They were trained to have lightning reflexes and taught how to make various chemicals, like poisons, healing salves, and explosives.
Ninja were also taught to improvise and use their surroundings. If they had to darken their white winter suits to sneak into a darker place, they'd roll in mud [and no, ninja never wore black]. They'd use local plants to make remedies or poisons.
Ninja were taught psychology. They could tell a false sleep from true sleep. They learned to use darkness as a tool. For example, throwing stars were used in the dark to confuse an enemy, as to imitate the cuts of an invisible swordsmen. Most shuriken were actually straight. They were taught how the human sees in the dark, and were even taught minor telepathy.
In conclusion, the Samurai would win the battle, but the Ninja would win the war.

*edit* Koreans did come up with the first ironclad. The "tortoise ship" was used to repel a Japanese invasion. Most who have studied the Moniter v Merrimack [AKA Virginia] know this...

[rEkKaShInObI]

Lol, funny thread. I will right from a Martial-Artist's standpoint.
In a straight fight, a Samurai would win. Why? A samurai's training assumes that the opponent will face him straight on. He doesn't expect anything "dishonorable."
However, in a no-hold-barred fight, a Ninja should win. Ninjas are not above foul tactics, and often have many hidden secrets they can use to exploit the weaknesses in the Samurai fighting style.
Even though Ninjitsu is called a Martial Art by some, it's not very combat-oriented. It originally dealt with stealth, tip-top physical shape, improvisation, and psychology over fighting.
Ninja were conditioned from youth to do amazing things with their bodies, like super-high standing jumps, running a day without rest, and the ability to safely dislocate joints. They were trained to have lightning reflexes and taught how to make various chemicals, like poisons, healing salves, and explosives.
Ninja were also taught to improvise and use their surroundings. If they had to darken their white winter suits to sneak into a darker place, they'd roll in mud [and no, ninja never wore black]. They'd use local plants to make remedies or poisons.
Ninja were taught psychology. They could tell a false sleep from true sleep. They learned to use darkness as a tool. For example, throwing stars were used in the dark to confuse an enemy, as to imitate the cuts of an invisible swordsmen. Most shuriken were actually straight. They were taught how the human sees in the dark, and were even taught minor telepathy.
In conclusion, the Samurai would win the battle, but the Ninja would win the war.

*edit* Koreans did come up with the first ironclad. The "tortoise ship" was used to repel a Japanese invasion. Most who have studied the Moniter v Merrimack [AKA Virginia] know this...

Yours was the first long post ive ever read. And i must say im impressed, i second your post.

[HoboGod]

samurai means "to serve." and all throughout their history, that is all they did.
no matter how currupt their times were, they always obey and put themselves
below dirt. they become strong soldiers, but they were just pathetic dogs that
thought what they were doing was honorable. and they bullied everyone else
into believing it too. they followed a fucked up system of honor and gave their
life away for nothing.

the ninja in my opinion was better. not stronger fighters. not fair fighters. not
even braver fighters. but the ninja put their cause before themselves. the ninja
would come in, kill the corrupt general, restore peace, and be forgotten.
ninjas didn't carry their crest on a flag, they held the crest of a new era in their hearts.

that is why i think ninjas are better, the biggest reason i adore them is because
they were feared. their fear spread across all people: merchants, farmers, royalty,
soldiers, peasants. they were the silent killers, the shapeshifters, the face
stealers, the invisible men... everything about them SCREAMED "inhuman." they
let fear be their weapon and let others think they were supernatural.

[NinjaSetsuna]

As a ninja myself I would have to agree that ninja are better. Samurai were on a large scale overlords who took thier power to the extreme. Ninja (and I'm speaking in the historical sense not the anime/manga version that too many people know) fought on the opposite side. These people were peasents and farmers forced to fight for thier villiages and lives. The ninja had to use his cunning and tools in order to survive, the samurai on the other hand was usually from a rich family who could afford the training. Thier abilities most likely were even since they were both essentially trained from birth, just in very different ways. I really don't think you can equate them on the same levels, and ninja and samurai weren't always at odds. Ninja were just ordinary people pushed to extremes, while samurai were a ruling class.

[NinjaSetsuna]

Hmm... I thought kunai is a throwing knife, more lethal than shuriken. Don't think they use that to fight.

The swords they use are shorter than the average katana. It is straight not curved, making it easier for backstabbing. Don't know what they are called though... :p

Ninja-to I believe.

[rEkKaShInObI]

samurai means "to serve." and all throughout their history, that is all they did.
no matter how currupt their times were, they always obey and put themselves
below dirt. they become strong soldiers, but they were just pathetic dogs that
thought what they were doing was honorable. and they bullied everyone else
into believing it too. they followed a fucked up system of honor and gave their
life away for nothing.

the ninja in my opinion was better. not stronger fighters. not fair fighters. not
even braver fighters. but the ninja put their cause before themselves. the ninja
would come in, kill the corrupt general, restore peace, and be forgotten.
ninjas didn't carry their crest on a flag, they held the crest of a new era in their hearts.

that is why i think ninjas are better, the biggest reason i adore them is because
they were feared. their fear spread across all people: merchants, farmers, royalty,
soldiers, peasants. they were the silent killers, the shapeshifters, the face
stealers, the invisible men... everything about them SCREAMED "inhuman." they
let fear be their weapon and let others think they were supernatural.

I totally agree with you on everything, but whoever said shinobi's werent brave? Its not likely that you'd see a female samurai, but there are Kunoichi's which is awsome, men and women are equal and can both become ninja's.

[Slade xTekno]

Hmm... I thought kunai is a throwing knife, more lethal than shuriken. Don't think they use that to fight.

The swords they use are shorter than the average katana. It is straight not curved, making it easier for backstabbing. Don't know what they are called though...

Straight shuriken were much more lethal than round shuriken [throwing stars]. Straight shuriken have much better penetrating ability and used with intent to hurt. Throwing stars were used more as a flashy distraction.
In history, most ninja-to were curved, just like samurai katanas. However, they were of poor quality as compared to a samurai. A samurai used wide slashes because their swords were of good enough quality to lop off a limb if it hit. Ninja were forced to thrust, then drag their blade along the opponent do significant damage and to get through armor.
Then again, ninja-to are multifunctional. Most ninja-to sheaths have a secret compartment to store various small objects, like poison and small throwing knives. The sheathes were also usable as breathing tubes underwater. The large, square tsuba [handguard] on a ninja-to allowed the sword in it's sheath to be set against a wall and used a boost [the ninja would pull the sword up afterward with a string attatched].
Ninja-to were also shorter than the average katana. This was to allow them to fight in the spaces they normally worked, like small hallways. Their sheathes were normally much longer to make room for the accessories they kept in them.

NinjaSetsuna, where do you take Ninjitsu? Any particular style?

*edit* Also saw Rekka's post. Will comment as soon as I have more time [at school right now].

[Mugen]

Samurais, just cos.....:D

[NinjaSetsuna]

NinjaSetsuna, where do you take Ninjitsu? Any particular style?

For the most part I've been studying myself, there really aren't any schools around here and it'd be so strange to walk into a karate, jujitsu, judo or aikido school around here and ask if they have classes on ninjutsu :heh:

[HoboGod]

I totally agree with you on everything, but whoever said shinobi's werent brave? Its not likely that you'd see a female samurai, but there are Kunoichi's which is awsome, men and women are equal and can both become ninja's.

anyone who chooses to fight is brave, but for the samurai to fight and die before
running away is damn brave.... brave to the point of stupidity, but still brave.

but, it wasn't just women that were equal. young, old, cripple, poor, sick...
a ninja can still be a respectable ninja as long as they have the courage to fight
oppression.

For the most part I've been studying myself, there really aren't any schools around here and it'd be so strange to walk into a karate, jujitsu, judo or aikido school around here and ask if they have classes on ninjutsu :heh:

hahahaha, damn strait it is hard to find ninjutsu classes, it is considered a
forbidden art. you'll be lucky to find a class that even has the basic princibles of
ninjutsu, but it is almost imposible to find classes open to the public that can
teach you how to infiltrate any building, kill sentry gaurds, or create poisons.

[aahhsin]

I'll say neither.

The Knight will beat them both down. (Yea yea yea, bring the flames)

There are only like 3 factors that really determines a fight.

Technology
Skill
Topography

If you have a Gun you'll beat a guy with bows and arrows

If you can dodge and swing a sword with ease you'll beat a guy that can't

If you're fighting on a higher elevation you'll likely win

[Slade xTekno]

I'll say neither.

The Knight will beat them both down. (Yea yea yea, bring the flames)

There are only like 3 factors that really determines a fight.

Technology
Skill
Topography

If you have a Gun you'll beat a guy with bows and arrows

If you can dodge and swing a sword with ease you'll beat a guy that can't

If you're fighting on a higher elevation you'll likely win

Which of the three advantages does the knight have?

NinjaSetsuna: It is hard to find a true ninjitsu class. You can find some if you look online, but it isn't true ninjitsu. Rumors say that there are still true ninjas being traditionally trained in the remote mountains in Japan...

RekkaShinobi: Female ninja were more often used as a stereotypical modern female spy is: as a spy. They'd use disguises [normally that of a concubine] to visibly infiltrate the enemy's base. They'd gather info or even assassinate. They were normally trained just as hard as a male ninja, but their roles were different.

[HoboGod]

I'll say neither.

The Knight will beat them both down.


um... well, unless the knight had a gun, i doubt one-vs-one a knight could beat a
high rank samurai who has good armor. and if it is was just as simple as the kill
alone, the ninja would kill the knight while he sleeps. if you mean in battle, then
the samurai would be at a disadvantage because they don't have the great
numbers (a disadvantage to condeming seppeku for petty things). but if you are
using battle as the means of judging your favorite, then how would ninjas fit in?
they avoid direct fighting in general.

Female ninja were more often used as a stereotypical modern female spy is: as a spy. They'd use disguises [normally that of a concubine] to visibly infiltrate the enemy's base. They'd gather info or even assassinate. They were normally trained just as hard as a male ninja, but their roles were different.

different, but equally important.

[rEkKaShInObI]

Quick question: The samurai and ninja are extinct right? (real ninja and samurai's)

[Slade xTekno]

Quick question: The samurai and ninja are extinct right? (real ninja and samurai's)
Samurai: I'm positive these are extict. Unless there is a city full of cosplayers somewhere...
Ninja: Who knows? You're not supposed to.

[rEkKaShInObI]

Samurai: I'm positive these are extict. Unless there is a city full of cosplayers somewhere...
Ninja: Who knows? You're not supposed to.

Great answer, thanks.

[aahhsin]

Great answer, thanks.

I dunno..... The samerai comes and goes in one form or another.

In World War II, some of the soldiers considered themselves samurais. Or at least believed in the Samurai spirt. The army of the Rising Sun, history channel even said something about how the Japanese army had an invincible aura built with long standing tradition and honor. something like that.

um... well, unless the knight had a gun, i doubt one-vs-one a knight could beat a
high rank samurai who has good armor. and if it is was just as simple as the kill
alone, the ninja would kill the knight while he sleeps. if you mean in battle, then
the samurai would be at a disadvantage because they don't have the great
numbers (a disadvantage to condeming seppeku for petty things). but if you are
using battle as the means of judging your favorite, then how would ninjas fit in?
they avoid direct fighting in general.

You watch too many movies. Samurais are farmers.

Lets list the 2. Feel free to add some stuff, I'm for Knights so I'll be bit biased. (if you go with that fallacy crap, how the hell you argue something if you don't believe in you point?)

Knights vs Samurai

Full fledged soldier day/noon/night vs Farmer by day soldier at night (times of peril or a body guard, then again a knight can be said to be a body guard

Advantage - Knight.

Katana vs Broadsword or a Rapier

Katanas - Light, curved, and sharp
Broadsword - Also Light (don't let movies fool you) Easily movable and stabbable. Dual sides.
Advantage - Tie (Note : tulwars by the middle easterns during this time were probably the best. Then again...)

Armour

chain mail + steel helmets - Tightly linked chains can prevent slashes from swords. the plate armour will prevent crushing blows from blunt weapons such as hammers

Linked plates + a wooden mask - masks look scary. and makes the attacker think your insane. Psycological damage. Easily moveable linked plates. too bad they were linked with silk... but still very protective

But 1 factor seperates them. The Shield.

The shield is strong durable and if you think a samerai can cut through a shieild you seriously watch too many cartoons. Try using a butcher knife and see if you can cleanly slice a cutting board. If you can, you have one macho strength. or that wood was pathetically old and weak.

Advantage - Knight

Crossbow vs Bow and arrow

Crossbows are easier to fire and more accurate. Also they can fire straight. bows/Arrows are more arched to firing. Unless you use the long bow you can't fire that far. Easier to reload with a crossbow, but faster firing rate with the bow. But i got to give this to the technology.

Advantage - Knight

Skill

Undeterminable

No samurais NOR ninjas can jump roof to roof, fly across the sky, run insanely fast. Or other things like what kenshin does.

The bottom line. The better fighter wins. Anygiven time a Knight can kill a samurai and vise versa.

I have no idea, but I like medevil weaponry more.

[Rue]

I think it depends on which one is the hero of the story. ;D

If the Samurai = main char, he wins! If Ninja = main char, he wins!

[Slade xTekno]

Great post, aahhsin. I will now contest and concede to your points.

I dunno..... The samerai comes and goes in one form or another.

In World War II, some of the soldiers considered themselves samurais. Or at least believed in the Samurai spirt. The army of the Rising Sun, history channel even said something about how the Japanese army had an invincible aura built with long standing tradition and honor. something like that.
Very true. Many Japanese infantry groups in the islands were led by a lone man wielding a katana. Allies quickly learned to shoot him first.


Knights vs Samurai

Full fledged soldier day/noon/night vs Farmer by day soldier at night (times of peril or a body guard, then again a knight can be said to be a body guard

Advantage - Knight.
Not all samurai were farmers [I've never heard this point made]. Most were nobles. Many farmers were armed, but it took money to buy a decent katana.

Katana vs Broadsword or a Rapier

Katanas - Light, curved, and sharp
Broadsword - Also Light (don't let movies fool you) Easily movable and stabbable. Dual sides.
Advantage - Tie (Note : tulwars by the middle easterns during this time were probably the best. Then again...)
The great difference between oriental swords and medieval swords was the quality.
A good katana was folded as compared to forged as done in Medeival Times. Also, a good katana was made of two different metals: a super-hard shell and a softer core. The hard shell gave the sword the ability to... well, hurt, while the soft core absorbed shock. If you put a good katana against a good medieval broadsword, the broadsword will be in pieces given a few minutes.
The rapier debate was not discussed. If the fencer knew the weaknesses in the samurai armor, he might have a chance.
However, fencing style matters. An Italian fencer keep his blade in contact with the opponent's in order to control it. A French fencer will attempt to weave his blade around the opponent's to score a hit. In both cases, the fencer must be very careful to keep his blade in one piece.

Armour

chain mail + steel helmets - Tightly linked chains can prevent slashes from swords. the plate armour will prevent crushing blows from blunt weapons such as hammers

Linked plates + a wooden mask - masks look scary. and makes the attacker think your insane. Psycological damage. Easily moveable linked plates. too bad they were linked with silk... but still very protective

But 1 factor seperates them. The Shield.

The shield is strong durable and if you think a samerai can cut through a shieild you seriously watch too many cartoons. Try using a butcher knife and see if you can cleanly slice a cutting board. If you can, you have one macho strength. or that wood was pathetically old and weak.

Advantage - Knight
One advantage the Medieval knight has over the Japanese samurai is the strength of its armor. Metal armor is much stronger than padding.
However, you must factor in their fighting styles. Samurai armor did not provide as much protection, but allowed much more maneuverabily [distance was a crucial part of the samurai fighting style. This would allow a samurai to easily outmaneuver a knight in his bulky armor.

Crossbow vs Bow and arrow

Crossbows are easier to fire and more accurate. Also they can fire straight. bows/Arrows are more arched to firing. Unless you use the long bow you can't fire that far. Easier to reload with a crossbow, but faster firing rate with the bow. But i got to give this to the technology.

Advantage - Knight
Crossbow are easier to fire and more accurate for most. However, people who know how to use bows will eagerly contest this point. Crossbows with a decent pull can be difficult to reload. Only people with proper training can fire a bow quickly.

Skill

Undeterminable

No samurais NOR ninjas can jump roof to roof, fly across the sky, run insanely fast. Or other things like what kenshin does.
Look here (http://www.greenshines.com/control/media/1078969315.wmv). It may disprove some feelings about the jumping part.
Ninja were capable of doing many things that may seem like legend to us. Ninja were trained from adolescence to be physically perfect.
Running was crucial in a ninja's training. They were taught techniques on running quickly and for long lengths of time. Plus, they were to run every day...
Ninja were incredible jumpers. They were drilled, given obstacles and only given the option to jump. Make note, to get over an obstacle, ninja normally used several jumps [ie off walls]. Also, the legends of ninja jumping ten feet high are true. They planted a well-camoflaged springboard beforehand. Then, when they needed to escape, they jumped on this board and pulled it after them with a string attatched.


The bottom line. The better fighter wins. Anygiven time a Knight can kill a samurai and vise versa.

I have no idea, but I like medevil weaponry more.
True. The better fighter wins. But the ninja doesn't rely on fighting...
If you can't tell, I'm biased torward ninjas...

[HoboGod]

I dunno..... The samerai comes and goes in one form or another.

In World War II, some of the soldiers considered themselves samurais. Or at least believed in the Samurai spirt. The army of the Rising Sun, history channel even said something about how the Japanese army had an invincible aura built with long standing tradition and honor. something like that.



You watch too many movies. Samurais are farmers.

Lets list the 2. Feel free to add some stuff, I'm for Knights so I'll be bit biased. (if you go with that fallacy crap, how the hell you argue something if you don't believe in you point?)

Knights vs Samurai

Full fledged soldier day/noon/night vs Farmer by day soldier at night (times of peril or a body guard, then again a knight can be said to be a body guard

Advantage - Knight.

Katana vs Broadsword or a Rapier

Katanas - Light, curved, and sharp
Broadsword - Also Light (don't let movies fool you) Easily movable and stabbable. Dual sides.
Advantage - Tie (Note : tulwars by the middle easterns during this time were probably the best. Then again...)

Armour

chain mail + steel helmets - Tightly linked chains can prevent slashes from swords. the plate armour will prevent crushing blows from blunt weapons such as hammers

Linked plates + a wooden mask - masks look scary. and makes the attacker think your insane. Psycological damage. Easily moveable linked plates. too bad they were linked with silk... but still very protective

But 1 factor seperates them. The Shield.

The shield is strong durable and if you think a samerai can cut through a shieild you seriously watch too many cartoons. Try using a butcher knife and see if you can cleanly slice a cutting board. If you can, you have one macho strength. or that wood was pathetically old and weak.

Advantage - Knight

Crossbow vs Bow and arrow

Crossbows are easier to fire and more accurate. Also they can fire straight. bows/Arrows are more arched to firing. Unless you use the long bow you can't fire that far. Easier to reload with a crossbow, but faster firing rate with the bow. But i got to give this to the technology.

Advantage - Knight

Skill

Undeterminable

No samurais NOR ninjas can jump roof to roof, fly across the sky, run insanely fast. Or other things like what kenshin does.

The bottom line. The better fighter wins. Anygiven time a Knight can kill a samurai and vise versa.

I have no idea, but I like medevil weaponry more.

that is why i said high ranking samurai.... the difference in skill is enormous between a basic samurai and one who is highly disiplined. where as with knights, the only difference in skill is ussually strength. the high rank ones wear heavy armor and tend to carry heavy weapons. even if they don't feel that heavy, knights develop bulky muscles which make it harder to move. those knights that wear light armor tend to be very weak and can't handle big armor and big weapons. samurai would have a speed advantage against a person of equal skill.

as for the whole swords that cut through metal shields and jumping from roof-to-roof, such things are obviously embelished truths or downright lies. but disipline and extensive training are very true in bishido.

samurai used crossbows too for a short time, btw. but i agree, medieval weapons are very cool and far more diverse than the average samurai weapons, too bad the knights who used em were fucking assholes, they would treat their enemy with respect and spit on peasants in their own county.

[aahhsin]

Great points Slade, but like all great arguments I shall give my rebuttle.

Great post, aahhsin. I will now contest and concede to your points.

[quote]The great difference between oriental swords and medieval swords was the quality.
A good katana was folded as compared to forged as done in Medeival Times. Also, a good katana was made of two different metals: a super-hard shell and a softer core. The hard shell gave the sword the ability to... well, hurt, while the soft core absorbed shock. If you put a good katana against a good medieval broadsword, the broadsword will be in pieces given a few minutes.

I disagree with this. Damacacus Steel is much more stronger then the folding technique. As I recall there are barely any natural minerals in Japan. Iron is of poor quality there. Although folding is a better technique to make the sword, what you put into it still has it's limitations. But lets assume the Katana and Broadsword were made of the same iron/steel. the Katana will NOT break the sword, but over time and weather, the Katana will stand up while the Broadsword will wear and break.

Does this mean the Katana is better in battle? Not really. The main thing that seperates the Katana and the Broadsword is the curve. Because the Katana is curved, it slices better less wind resistance. A longsword can slice and stab as well as any katana, but as for the Broadsword, not really. It's not a club, but as for slashing power, Katana is better. But a katana cannot slice through a broadsword. That's is why I stressed the "Shield"

The Shield is the determining factor. Why do you think Swat teams still use a sheild? It works. Sure it gives you only 1 way to attack but you also block off your entire side. Lets assume a samurai attacks. And the shield blocks the time for recoil and bringing the Katana back to defend a stab from the broadsword takes much too long. And remember with a shield pushing the Katana away, the Samurai is open to attacks. unless the Samurai busts out a knife and throws it in the Knights face, more often then not the Shield beats the Samurai.

One advantage the Medieval knight has over the Japanese samurai is the strength of its armor. Metal armor is much stronger than padding.
However, you must factor in their fighting styles. Samurai armor did not provide as much protection, but allowed much more maneuverabily [distance was a crucial part of the samurai fighting style. This would allow a samurai to easily outmaneuver a knight in his bulky armor.

I'll make this point again, the armour of the knight is not as bulky as it looks. It is very manuverable, balanced and protective. As much as the Japanese armor. Chain mail is very manuverable and is made to prevent slash attacks. It is far from what we see in movies and shows. Ask yourself this, if you created armor, would you want to create one that restrains movements? You guys have to give Europeans more then that, they're not that dumb to make an armor that's not manuverable. Guess untill both of us actually get into both suits of armor this will be going nowhere.

Fighting styles... hmmm.. Kendo vs Teorsu (Mad Sp, he's some guy with a T name)
(these are the most known styles today i believe)
I have no idea what both styles do or their specs. I can't argue about this.

Crossbow are easier to fire and more accurate for most. However, people who know how to use bows will eagerly contest this point. Crossbows with a decent pull can be difficult to reload. Only people with proper training can fire a bow quickly.

Agreed here, but the point still stands if your a sword fighter, more likely you will not be learning to fire a bow with ultimate ease and accuracy. Why do you think the British had a Calvary and Longbowmen divisions.

Look here (http://www.greenshines.com/control/media/1078969315.wmv). It may disprove some feelings about the jumping part.
Ninja were capable of doing many things that may seem like legend to us. Ninja were trained from adolescence to be physically perfect.
Running was crucial in a ninja's training. They were taught techniques on running quickly and for long lengths of time. Plus, they were to run every day...
Ninja were incredible jumpers. They were drilled, given obstacles and only given the option to jump. Make note, to get over an obstacle, ninja normally used several jumps [ie off walls]. Also, the legends of ninja jumping ten feet high are true. They planted a well-camoflaged springboard beforehand. Then, when they needed to escape, they jumped on this board and pulled it after them with a string attatched.

I must say a very interesting video. I doubt he can climb a castle though. If he can man that guy is nuts.


True. The better fighter wins. But the ninja doesn't rely on fighting...
If you can't tell, I'm biased torward ninjas...

heh, how aobut the samurai?

[Slade xTekno]

This could go on a while.
Does this mean the Katana is better in battle? Not really. The main thing that seperates the Katana and the Broadsword is the curve. Because the Katana is curved, it slices better less wind resistance. A longsword can slice and stab as well as any katana, but as for the Broadsword, not really. It's not a club, but as for slashing power, Katana is better. But a katana cannot slice through a broadsword. That's is why I stressed the "Shield"
A curve on a blade also allows a keener edge. A sword with a straight edge should be used for hacking bits out of an opponent. A sword with a curved edge should be used so the edge runs along the opponent, making a nice, long cut that bleeds well.
I knew I forgot something. The shield basically throws a wrench into the working gears of a samurai. From what I know, shields did not exist in Japan. I'm confused as to how a samurai would react. I'm tempted to think the samurai would attempt to hack it to bits. A deul could well be decided by it.

I'll make this point again, the armour of the knight is not as bulky as it looks. It is very manuverable, balanced and protective. As much as the Japanese armor. Chain mail is very manuverable and is made to prevent slash attacks. It is far from what we see in movies and shows. Ask yourself this, if you created armor, would you want to create one that restrains movements? You guys have to give Europeans more then that, they're not that dumb to make an armor that's not manuverable. Guess untill both of us actually get into both suits of armor this will be going nowhere.
I withdraw on the armor point. We really won't know unless we both get into suits of armor and play "Red Rover" a few times.

Agreed here, but the point still stands if your a sword fighter, more likely you will not be learning to fire a bow with ultimate ease and accuracy. Why do you think the British had a Calvary and Longbowmen divisions.
I'm still doubting on the crossbow/longbow. It depends on what's your accustomed to. Samurai were accustomed to the bow and knights were accustomed to the crossbow. I'll just assume both were equally talented.
As we in modern society, we use guns. The closest thing to guns between a bow and a crossbow is the crossbow, and to us, that'd be easier to use.

Why I am arguing in defense of weapons and armor confuses me. I prefer not to use them...

[emessen]

this is a funny thread...

because most people, with few exceptions reply with a skewed knowldge
based on anime and movies and some books... basically media... and then
they add their own little logic into their opinion...

I'm an Asian Studies major... and i read alot of extra stuff just because
so i'd suggest doing a little research even if it's just googling "ninja history"

get it straight...

ninjas/shinobi were hired spies... SPIES

during the shogunate era of japan there were factions of ninjas... aside from
being spies they excelled at SIEGE WARFARE... think guerilla warfare
but set inside a Castle or Army encampent and not in the dense jungles of Nam...
their job was to invade a stronghold under stealth and surprise attack
inside enemy fortifications in order to cause confusion while main armies
attacked... they new how to fight but mostly just enough to hit and run
(Tokugawa Iesayu is known for using ninjas as part of his army...)

it's because of these rumors that Daimyous were often scared of
being "assassinated" by ninjas and stories about ninja super human abilities
grew and grew... YES they were hired for assassinations (but with very little
success... their patrons were many a times caught... read up on famous japanese
leader Oda Nobunaga, ninjas went after him with 3 cannons that's right..
cannons... wheres the stealth in that?)
_____________________________

OH YEAH...

on that armor debate... european heavy armor vs japanese padded armor....

did ya ever put on europen replica armor in history class? that stuff is HEAVY...
and you CANT move much... you want us to give europeans credit? you think the
armor is designed for maneuverability?

UHHH yeah... RIIIIGHT you're thinking chain mail alone.. and a KNIGHT would not
be wearing chainmail alone....

knights with heavy armor = HORSEBACK

you dont need a wide range of maneuverability on a horse... you needed
PROTECTION while you ride past the infantry hacking and slashing....

shield debate... what size are you talking about? kite shield size?

advantage knight? how about in SKILL of combatant a knight taking the full force
of a two armed slash from a curved and weighted katana with the shield...

i dunno man... gotta be draining to try and swing around a heavy shield in one
hand to defend while attacking with the other agnst a guy who has no vision
restriction because of a shield and no fatigue on the extra weight... and he's more
maneuvarable to boot but then the samurai would have an opening with no
defense from a shield right?

can u really call who's got the advantage?

[Slade xTekno]

emessen: Is the thread really that bad? I haven't read the whole thing yet [maybe I should].
Oh, that web-doujin looked pretty cool. I will look into it.

[emessen]

ach my manga's so old and i havent updated in about 6 months...

it's horrible... im so lazy

[NinjaSetsuna]

Samurai: I'm positive these are extict. Unless there is a city full of cosplayers somewhere...
Ninja: Who knows? You're not supposed to.

There are people still being trained in the ways of the samurai, however it's for the sake of knowing one's heritage, there aren't any "samurai" left. The ninja skills have never truely died out, but I agree, we aren't supposed to know. Perhaps someday the world will need the talents of the ninja once again.

NinjaSetsuna: It is hard to find a true ninjitsu class. You can find some if you look online, but it isn't true ninjitsu. Rumors say that there are still true ninjas being traditionally trained in the remote mountains in Japan...

This I know. ^_^

I also know that my chances of being chosen are fairly zilch.

Mai ka...

[kj1980]

( ﾟдﾟ )ﾊｧ?

If ninjas do still exist, they'll be dead from the smog of Metro Tokyo. I sure hope people aren't taking what is in anime too seriously as a reflection of modern day Japan... From a Japanese person's point of view, this thread seems like you guys have a very skewed view of this country.

Samurais do not exist because they were banned by the Meiji government. Samurai bloodlines do exist since it has been less than 150 years since Cmdr. Matthew C. Perry "opened" our country. You want to know the reality? My car mechanic comes from a samurai family. He has no knowledge of swordsmanship nor was trained in that way. Thanks to a thing called capitalism and "the real world post-WWII era," samurai bloodlines are nill if you need to make a living. But still, the way of samurai honors still do live in modern-day Japan as some people would rather commit suicide by jumping in front of trains at the station rather than face excessive debts, intense working hours (karoushi), or social demeanor. Except, would you even call this something good? Thanks to this "way of the samurai," our country's suicide rate has tripled in the past decade thanks to recession.

Its a malaise that the Japanese government tries to contain, but the situation is only getting worse - part due to insurance companies allowing immediate payouts to those who died the "honorable" way. The Japanese government disallowed this two years ago, but insurance companies go around the loophole by paying them off not immediately, but three months later.

Thanks to "the way of the samurai," corporations and companies expect their employees to work massive overtime - as duty to support your master (corporation). What you have is people coming to work at 8:00AM, leaving at 10:00PM, working at home until 1:00AM, go to sleep for fours hours, then commute once again to work - Monday to Saturday ! You see people working 60, 70 hours per week - most of them with no overtime pay since the company expects that. Unions? Bah! Our unions are controlled by the top executives so labor unions have little - no power whatsoever. The situation is so bad, there is actually a term for this "karou" (extreme work) and people actually go insane to the point of killing themselves - "karoushi" (death caused by overwork). The government tries to solve this issue, but the corporations wording is "we never said to them explicitly to work that hard, it was his/her decision to force him/herself in that predicament." Whatever - yeah try explaining why these companies give lavish gifts and money to the family of the deceased after the incident?

"Duty" and "Honor!?" Bullshit. What you have in modern day Japan is employees forced to grovel to their superiors and take sides. If the boss has golf in the weekend, you are expected to play with him and other co-workers. If it has to mean to choose between a pre-planned promise to go to Disneyland with your family and children or to go play golf at a moments notice from your superior, you are expected to choose work (groveling/playing golf) over family. And let's say you chose the wrong superior to grovel to. Factions in corporations are so bad that if you are seen as a "member" of a faction that lost to a new higher position in the corporate ladder, you are punished by being sent off to some obscure branch in the middle of rural Japan. It is unheard of a "punished corporate warrior" to be banished to a branch in Southeast Asia or the United States, alone, for seven - at the worst, fifteen years away from Japan. And until you completed your duty (retirement) you are chained to the corporate.

Welcome to Japan.

[Slade xTekno]

kj1980: You are awesome at describing modern Japan, and I consider you a source when it comes to debates with friends.
However, this thread was made to discuss who would win, a samurai or a ninja, in a straight fight in the feudal ages of Japan. Someone merely asked whether they existed today. My answer was more of a guess than an answer.
You're right, though. Anime and media disillusion the masses about ninja and samurai. I simply attempted to present some reasonable, true facts to set some misconceptions straight.

[LinChoiSin]

( ﾟдﾟ )ﾊｧ?

If ninjas do still exist, they'll be dead from the smog of Metro Tokyo. I sure hope people aren't taking what is in anime too seriously as a reflection of modern day Japan... From a Japanese person's point of view, this thread seems like you guys have a very skewed view of this country.

Samurais do not exist because they were banned by the Meiji government. Samurai bloodlines do exist since it has been less than 150 years since Cmdr. Matthew C. Perry "opened" our country. You want to know the reality? My car mechanic comes from a samurai family. He has no knowledge of swordsmanship nor was trained in that way. Thanks to a thing called capitalism and "the real world post-WWII era," samurai bloodlines are nill if you need to make a living. But still, the way of samurai honors still do live in modern-day Japan as some people would rather commit suicide by jumping in front of trains at the station rather than face excessive debts, intense working hours (karoushi), or social demeanor. Except, would you even call this something good? Thanks to this "way of the samurai," our country's suicide rate has tripled in the past decade thanks to recession.

Its a malaise that the Japanese government tries to contain, but the situation is only getting worse - part due to insurance companies allowing immediate payouts to those who died the "honorable" way. The Japanese government disallowed this two years ago, but insurance companies go around the loophole by paying them off not immediately, but three months later.

Thanks to "the way of the samurai," corporations and companies expect their employees to work massive overtime - as duty to support your master (corporation). What you have is people coming to work at 8:00AM, leaving at 10:00PM, working at home until 1:00AM, go to sleep for fours hours, then commute once again to work - Monday to Saturday ! You see people working 60, 70 hours per week - most of them with no overtime pay since the company expects that. Unions? Bah! Our unions are controlled by the top executives so labor unions have little - no power whatsoever. The situation is so bad, there is actually a term for this "karou" (extreme work) and people actually go insane to the point of killing themselves - "karoushi" (death caused by overwork). The government tries to solve this issue, but the corporations wording is "we never said to them explicitly to work that hard, it was his/her decision to force him/herself in that predicament." Whatever - yeah try explaining why these companies give lavish gifts and money to the family of the deceased after the incident?

"Duty" and "Honor!?" Bullshit. What you have in modern day Japan is employees forced to grovel to their superiors and take sides. If the boss has golf in the weekend, you are expected to play with him and other co-workers. If it has to mean to choose between a pre-planned promise to go to Disneyland with your family and children or to go play golf at a moments notice from your superior, you are expected to choose work (groveling/playing golf) over family. And let's say you chose the wrong superior to grovel to. Factions in corporations are so bad that if you are seen as a "member" of a faction that lost to a new higher position in the corporate ladder, you are punished by being sent off to some obscure branch in the middle of rural Japan. It is unheard of a "punished corporate warrior" to be banished to a branch in Southeast Asia or the United States, alone, for seven - at the worst, fifteen years away from Japan. And until you completed your duty (retirement) you are chained to the corporate.

Welcome to Japan.
KJ by reading your posts i'm under the impression that you don't like your country very much ,i know that there are lots of issues in modern Japan but every country has issues and i like to think that even in Japan there are some happy people, besides i think that working hard is a good way to reach success(or at least avoid poverty).
i read that according to takeshi kitano there's still some samurai spirit among the yakuza society do you agree?

[aahhsin]

OH YEAH...

on that armor debate... european heavy armor vs japanese padded armor....

did ya ever put on europen replica armor in history class? that stuff is HEAVY...
and you CANT move much... you want us to give europeans credit? you think the
armor is designed for maneuverability?

UHHH yeah... RIIIIGHT you're thinking chain mail alone.. and a KNIGHT would not
be wearing chainmail alone....

knights with heavy armor = HORSEBACK

you dont need a wide range of maneuverability on a horse... you needed
PROTECTION while you ride past the infantry hacking and slashing....

I coulda sworn I put chain mail. Well made Plate mail is actually very manuverable. Replicas aren't ment to be used to fight in they're used to look at. But lets assumme that he was in the lumbering plate mail that you claim. He'll be on a horse because accoring to you. And since he's on a Horse Knights typically will use a lance instead of a sword.

Unless the Samurai can knock the Knight off, (Which is really hard) He's pretty much dead. (they can try to kill the horse but I'll still imagine the lance stabbing you before you can take a swing at the horse's legs.)

shield debate... what size are you talking about? kite shield size?

advantage knight? how about in SKILL of combatant a knight taking the full force
of a two armed slash from a curved and weighted katana with the shield...

i dunno man... gotta be draining to try and swing around a heavy shield in one
hand to defend while attacking with the other agnst a guy who has no vision
restriction because of a shield and no fatigue on the extra weight... and he's more
maneuvarable to boot but then the samurai would have an opening with no
defense from a shield right?

can u really call who's got the advantage?


Doesn't matter what shield. A shield's a Shield whether it's a kite shield, or a round shiled or even the convex shield. I am 100% positive you cannot cut a shield in 1/2 with a katana or even break it for that matter. unless your buffer then arnold and that shield is about to break anyways, there is pretty much no way you can break it.

Whose to say the Knight cannot take the full blast of a two handed swipe? With a thick shield I'm sure he can. you take a butcher knife and see if you can slice a chopping board cleanly in the air. not lying flat. A shield is invaulable

No vision restriction? Samurais wear masks to fight, since you're in asian studies, you should know that the masks were used to scare people away while fighting and from what I've seen the masks do limit vision. There are different types of helmets then the full plate helmet you see on TV when Knights are jousting.

You can't that's why there's a debate. it's not as if Samurai armour isn't heavy. Imagine 2 pound plates linked together all over your body.

[emessen]

what im trying to get at is...

both japanese and european armor and weaponry have their
advantages and disadvantages...

i never said the knight couldn't take the two handed blow
while holding the shield, i just questioned if he wouldnt be stunned
by the recoil if for at least a second.... never said the samurai would
be able to cut the shield i just said that you should factor in response
times and gradual fatigue between dual wielding two objects as
opposed to using a two-handed weapon...

and vision restriction from the shield denotes the act
of blocking with it while you are unable to read your opponent
that's why i asked for size... kite, tower, rondache etc etc
and that's why i factor in wieght and fatigue..

like i said advatages and disadvatages...

boils down to skill mostly

[kj1980]

kj1980: You are awesome at describing modern Japan, and I consider you a source when it comes to debates with friends.
However, this thread was made to discuss who would win, a samurai or a ninja, in a straight fight in the feudal ages of Japan. Someone merely asked whether they existed today. My answer was more of a guess than an answer.
You're right, though. Anime and media disillusion the masses about ninja and samurai. I simply attempted to present some reasonable, true facts to set some misconceptions straight.

Oh, okay. Then technically, "ninjas" versus "samurais" are a misnomer because...by the old caste system, ninjas are samurai.

During the Tokugawa era, there was a caste system that classified the people. From top to bottom:

A. The imperial household (top-out-of-sight since they were considered to be descendants of gods)
1. The samurai
2. Peasants
3. Artisans
4. Merchants
F. burakumin (bottom-out-of-sight since they weren't "human")

To focus on the subject, I will elaborate on the top of the caste: The samurai.

The samurai, or warrior classes were at the top. Their income was based on koku - the amount of rice that is distributed to them by the peasantry in their area. Rice is collected by the top samurai in the area - the feudal lord. Lords maintain lower samurai which are paid by means of distributing the rice that the lord has collected from the peasants. The samurai has the right to own a sword, and if there is due cause - has the right to kill anyone, lest of course there is due cause and a plausible excuse (although killing a peasant because he looked at the samurai in a weird way would land the criminal-samurai in a court in front of a magistrate and be punished by beheading or being banished from the area for life).

Being a samurai does not mean they have the given right to look down upon others just because they are in a higher caste (But of course, there are those who don't follow these rules). As a samurai, and it is their duty to protect the citizens of their area, and if times call for, to serve their lord in war (and lords also have factions so they need to serve and alliance with higher lords and other lords as well).

But since this is the Tokugawa era, there was much peace throughout the land. The highest samurai lord, the Tokugawa family held a firm grip as the Shogunate in Japan at the time. As the Shogunate, it was the Tokugawa family's duty to maintain peace throughout Japan. They enforced strict rules of family-hostage (a family member of the a lord must reside in Edo) and the sankin-kotai system (lords and their clansmen must pay a homage to Edo to meet and give a summary of their area's situation to the Tokugawa Shogunate every year).

Well to avoid diverging the topic any further, "ninjas" are actually "specially trained samurais in the art of espionage." As said above, it is the lords and the shogunate's duty to protect the peace in their lands and in Japan. But, for example, while one lord in area A is faithfully keeping the peace, a lord in area B might by strengthening his own samurai army to usurp area A to get more koku. Hence, the lord in area A maintains a group of expert samurais trained in the art of espionage to keep a check on area B (and other neighboring areas). The work of espionage is essentially "collecting info and data without being caught." While it is great to have no murders involved, the work calls for - yes, assassination.

If the lord in area A finds out from his "ninjas" that area B is contemplating to disturb the peace, the lord may order his "ninjas" to take the lord of area B out before things get out of hand. Or, he may wait it out and tell the shogunate what is happening when the next sankin-kotai comes along. Either way, the lord must be cunning to think several steps ahead - if he kills the lord in area B, he may avoid being run down - but can also risk war. If he chooses to tell the shogunate, he may be rewarded by the shogunate for more koku lands from the offensive area B. Of course, he risks getting himself killed.

Now referring back to "samurai" versus "ninjas" - if they get into a fight, sure ninjas would probably win - in the case of the noted above. But since ninjas are technically in the samurai class themselves, the whole question is a misnomer. A more relevant and concise question would be thus:

"Warrior samurais" versus "Assassn/espionage samurais" who would win?

But of course, "ninjas" can only win in the case of espionage and assasination - under cover. He could take out the leading lord giving orders safe at his castle, but a ninja could not possibly go out alone and kill a herd of samurai warriors in a battlefield. A great example would be "James Bond could probably go and kill General Gogol if times call for it, but could not possibly take on the entire Soviet/Eastern bloc armed forces alone."

[kj1980]

KJ by reading your posts i'm under the impression that you don't like your country very much ,i know that there are lots of issues in modern Japan but every country has issues and i like to think that even in Japan there are some happy people, besides i think that working hard is a good way to reach success(or at least avoid poverty).
i read that according to takeshi kitano there's still some samurai spirit among the yakuza society do you agree?

[edit]I apologize for ranting...though I needed somewhere to blow off my steam, I do realize my stress is my personal matter and not to be expressed on such a social arena. If a moderator feels this to be uncalled for, you have my acknowledgement to justify a deletion of my response.

What good is working very hard when you can't spend time with your family? What good is working hard when you end up spending the money going out playing golf with a superior? Is this what "success" is all about? What is "success?" Getting money? Getting a higher social advancement? Is this what we spent six years of compulsory education, three years of high school, and four years of university - practically killing ourselves in tests and education wars, exam hell, to be the best of the best for? These are the dillemmas that young people in Japan face. I even ponder why I worked my ass off in education to land a dead-end job.

The manga "GTO" was excellent in portraying all these social ills in Japan - that if you live in Japan, you would understand these social ills first hand.

Is treating your family like shit and putting work over family relationships "success?" Is breaking a promise to your five year old child's birthday to come home early called "success?" To see yourself only coming home to bring in money for the family called "success?" I wouldn't want to do this to my wife and children - seeing how I was raised in such a family when I was a child.

At times like these, I should really start thinking of ditching Japan, move to the US and get a job as an anime industry personnel in some anime licensee/distributor in the US.

Kitano Takeshi's films is a movie. What is on screen does not relate to what happens in real life. Does everything shown on Hollywood movies portray life in the US? No. Neither does our movies. It is entertainment. So are animes.

So, what is "success?" Does getting a good education, landing a job at a big company a "success?" Think deeply and you'll find that if "success" = "materialism" and "money," you'll find that that is just very thin and a cheap way of life.

[luffy]

ninja's are kool but samuri's are the best . I think :twitch: :thinker: :help:

[LinChoiSin]

[edit]I apologize for ranting...though I needed somewhere to blow off my steam, I do realize my stress is my personal matter and not to be expressed on such a social arena. If a moderator feels this to be uncalled for, you have my acknowledgement to justify a deletion of my response.

What good is working very hard when you can't spend time with your family? What good is working hard when you end up spending the money going out playing golf with a superior? Is this what "success" is all about? What is "success?" Getting money? Getting a higher social advancement? Is this what we spent six years of compulsory education, three years of high school, and four years of university - practically killing ourselves in tests and education wars, exam hell, to be the best of the best for? These are the dillemmas that young people in Japan face. I even ponder why I worked my ass off in education to land a dead-end job.

The manga "GTO" was excellent in portraying all these social ills in Japan - that if you live in Japan, you would understand these social ills first hand.

Is treating your family like shit and putting work over family relationships "success?" Is breaking a promise to your five year old child's birthday to come home early called "success?" To see yourself only coming home to bring in money for the family called "success?" I wouldn't want to do this to my wife and children - seeing how I was raised in such a family when I was a child.

At times like these, I should really start thinking of ditching Japan, move to the US and get a job as an anime industry personnel in some anime licensee/distributor in the US.

Kitano Takeshi's films is a movie. What is on screen does not relate to what happens in real life. Does everything shown on Hollywood movies portray life in the US? No. Neither does our movies. It is entertainment. So are animes.

So, what is "success?" Does getting a good education, landing a job at a big company a "success?" Think deeply and you'll find that if "success" = "materialism" and "money," you'll find that that is just very thin and a cheap way of life.
you seem to have a lot of steam to blow off :) .it looks like you didn't read my question about Kitano.

i think that living as a ninja is harder than living as a samourai because living in the shadows sounds very difficult and not very rewarding but at the end samurais and ninjas were both needed.

[GuardianAngel]

Okey there are 2 anime top fighting style, those are Samurai and Ninja.s/Shinobis.

If you have do choose wich one do you like the best??

For my are Samurai the best they got great weapons, great swords and wich do you like the best??

For me i like d ninjas, bec they work with stealth and their accurate...with cool weapos too.

[Sakuba]

samurai's and ninjas are all cool, they all have their own abilities but i prefer samurais just abit over the ninja, as i have a katana and i practice kendo, but i guess samurai's in ancient japanese clothes are cooler then shinobis in the cloths that naruto wears.
plus you see more action with samurai's

[Sakuba]

quote: assahin

Advantage - Knight

Crossbow vs Bow and arrow

Crossbows are easier to fire and more accurate. Also they can fire straight. bows/Arrows are more arched to firing. Unless you use the long bow you can't fire that far. Easier to reload with a crossbow, but faster firing rate with the bow. But i got to give this to the technology.

Advantage - Knight

Skill

Undeterminable

No samurais NOR ninjas can jump roof to roof, fly across the sky, run insanely fast. Or other things like what kenshin does.

The bottom line. The better fighter wins. Anygiven time a Knight can kill a samurai and vise versa.

I have no idea, but I like medevil weaponry more.
__________________________________________________ _______________


the truth is it has been known that things story's may not be accurate, but the difference between a samurai, ninja and a knight is that they are all trained in different ways.

for example during the medevil ages, other countries, such as china could have invade german, ngland etc, as they had more arms, more people, better generals and advisors, they had better fighting techniques, and they also ruled the sea with the largest navy in the medievil world

and the chinese didn't even have samurai's

even though the japanese country was founded by a chinese general who was sented to find a elixer for the emperor. this general knowing thathis task was impossible, order ships to take wood food water, men, women, children, animals on board and exiled themselves to the islands now known as japan.

this is why some japanese symbols are exactly the same as the chinese, and this is also why they had the knowledge in how to build such beautify weapons such as the katana, so in other words all japanese have a ounce of chinese blood in them. there buildings are also similar to the chinese.

and second of all knights are not well trained, their armour was their weakness, the armour cause the person wearing it to have less reflexes, plus the armour was a heavy thing. and there weapons where not strong enough as the metal was not refined properly.

ninjas are real and they can leap from roof to roof, but as times changed ninjas became uneeded. ninjas weren't all cold hearted, this was a problem for some clans, ninjas still exist today, hiding and blending into the cities of japan, ninjas and samurai's all undergo very harss and strict training both risking the life of the person,

people say samurai's are just farmers but this is also inccurate as the emperor himself was trained to become a samurai, generals were samurai's,alot of soldiers were also samurais.

the armour that a samurai wears is light and it allowed its user to move more freely, allowing the samurai to execute, deadly attackes.

[Sakuba]

this qoute by somebody is wrong.

Also the koreans did not develop the first rockets, the Germans did during WWII with their V1 rockets, followed by their V2s. They were the first to develop turbine engines.

as we all know the chinese were the first to invent gun powder. there for this powder was used to make weapons and also bombs, the chinese used the gun powder to first make fireworks the first ever rocket, that explodes.
these rockets were then used on the great wall to defend the chinese againest the mongols, these rockets had arrows attached to them so when the rocket hits the enemy the rocket will stay on the enemy, until it explodes.
the rockets were then soon attached to a launcher, now known as a SAM launcher, the chinese rocket launcher was similar to the SAM launcher.

therefore the chinese invented the first known rocket, not the koeran or the germans

[aahhsin]

the truth is it has been known that things story's may not be accurate, but the difference between a samurai, ninja and a knight is that they are all trained in different ways.

for example during the medevil ages, other countries, such as china could have invade german, ngland etc, as they had more arms, more people, better generals and advisors, they had better fighting techniques, and they also ruled the sea with the largest navy in the medievil world

And your proof will be? More people, yes, better generals no. Charles de Gaulle defeated the army of super muslims in 700s. Richard the Lionheart, Charlemange, Barbarossa. Among others. Hell I'll even throw in Joan of Arc. I'm not saying these guys are better, but is it even possible to even compare?


and second of all knights are not well trained, their armour was their weakness, the armour cause the person wearing it to have less reflexes, plus the armour was a heavy thing. and there weapons where not strong enough as the metal was not refined properly.

No NO NO. training at the age of 10 was not well trained? especially with 1 teacher and 1 student. it's like Naruto format in a way. Appretince format. Unless the teacher is a dead drunk pervert, can't do much as a knight.

Chain mail is powerful. It's stronger then the plates of samurais. And it's already known that it's not as clumsy as the movies make it seem. It's a very good piece. The quality of metal in Europe surpasses teh quality in Asia. The folding techinque is what stands out for the katana, but damaceus steel or tempered steel is part of Europes development. What you put into your stuff is what you get out.


people say samurai's are just farmers but this is also inccurate as the emperor himself was trained to become a samurai, generals were samurai's,alot of soldiers were also samurais.

the armour that a samurai wears is light and it allowed its user to move more freely, allowing the samurai to execute, deadly attackes.

I said they were Farmers. and A majority of them were. Not all peasents were soldiers in Europe though.

[emessen]

being a farmer does not automatically make you inept or unskilled in the art of combat

dont make that conclusion

[kj1980]

（ ´,_ゝ`） ﾌﾟｯ

[aahhsin]

being a farmer does not automatically make you inept or unskilled in the art of combat

dont make that conclusion

maybe not, but time and time again professional soldiers (as a group) fight better then farmers.

don't you wonder why all countries use soldiers to fight instead of farmers? and i'm 100% sure that if a soldier and a farmer fight you'll bet on the soldier

[qazered]

ok that is it no more knight talk that is way off the subject now if you want to know the ultimate killing machine ever it has to be the

NINJAPIRATEJEDISHEEPDINASORPENGUINROSTERCABOOSE

allright and think about how many ninja video games are out there then think about how many samuri games there are the ninjas out right kick ass ok.....

[emessen]

you assume that a majority of samurai were farmers...
and farmers could NEVER beat a professional soldier
therefore samurai were not professional soldiers...

but only 20% of japans land is arable and fit for farming
and the whole of japan is no bigger than california... therefore all samurai
lived and farmed on 20% of the available landspace... thereby concluding that
because land was so limited, arable land even more scarce... samurai who were
farmers were VERY few in numbers?

so what were japanese armies made of?

cant a Soldier who trains in bushido also do other things? like farm? blacksmith?
the last samurai does a decent job of portraying japanese samurai as other things
besides crazy bloodthirsty killers in combat

[aahhsin]

you assume that a majority of samurai were farmers...
and farmers could NEVER beat a professional soldier
therefore samurai were not professional soldiers...

I'm not assuming. It's a fact. Sure like the draft system in the USA, but the fact still stands. Most of them are Farmers. heck even 51% is a majority. nobody has more soldiers then farmers. and with 20% land arable, there's gotta be a lot of farmers trying to harvest each and every single acre of land.


but only 20% of japans land is arable and fit for farming
and the whole of japan is no bigger than california... therefore all samurai
lived and farmed on 20% of the available landspace... thereby concluding that
because land was so limited, arable land even more scarce... samurai who were
farmers were VERY few in numbers?

Fishermen, herders, farmers, gatherers. Lets compare. Kj, what's the population of Japan currently?


cant a Soldier who trains in bushido also do other things? like farm? blacksmith?
the last samurai does a decent job of portraying japanese samurai as other things
besides crazy bloodthirsty killers in combat

Who ever said anything about being bloodthirsty killers?

Yes they can, but it's not a fulltime job. Only during peace time, after peace time of course they go leave their lands and start a fight. Now of course there were generals and others. Like the European system. but again many are farmers.

[emessen]

current population of japan has nothing to do with the population then...

describe to me in detail what a fulltime soldier does
besides train and patrol...

samurai were very proud class... they probably studied combat tactics and
sword fighting more in depth than say some "full-time" infantry solider in europe

to say that a samurai who happens to farm or fish or do calligraphy or study
wouldnt be fit as a professional soldier is ludicrous

[kj1980]

Lets compare. Kj, what's the population of Japan currently?

I'm not even going to say anything in this debate as it is free entertainment for me....

But I will give a lending hand here, and some historical data from my middle school textbook (and latest census figures):

Population growth of Japan from the early Meiji Period (hence, right after the Bakufu fell) to present day:

1860: 35,000,000
1921: 50,000,000
1936: 70,000,000
1967: 100,000,000
1990: 123,620,000
2000: 126,930,000

Japanese government forecasts that the Japanese population will hit its peak around 2006-2010 at 127,000,000. Considering the current low birth rate of 1.3 per household and the average life expantacy of men (77.99 years) and women (85.05 years) for children born in the year 2004, Japan's population will gradually decline to 92,000,000 by 2050.

Decline in number of people per household over the years:
1860: 5
1955: 4.97
1965: 4.50
1990: 3.06
Factors:
A. Less children
B. Decline in in-house jobs
C. Reduction of agricultural areas
D. Rise in the Nuclear family system
E. Increase in self-sustaining elderly people living by themselves

Engel's coefficient change:
1877: 63%
1990: less than 25%

Average kilo-calorie intake:
1860: 1800 Calorie
1920: 2200 Calorie
1945: less than 1900 Calorie
1970: 2300 Calorie
2000: 2700 Calorie

Increase in average height
1900: male - 157.9 cm, female - 147.9 cm
1990: male - 170.4 cm, female - 157.9 cm


Several things to know about the Edo-period before making any weird statements:

A. Caste system
B. sankin-kotai system
C. Bakufu Shogunate versus Imperial Household
D. inner and outer hans
E. The Three Families of the Tokugawa Household

Some notable history to know about before making weird conclusions:

A. The Azuchi-Momoyama Period of unification
B. Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Tokugawa Ieyasu - and Akechi Mitsuhide
C. Toyotomi Hideyoshi's ambition for Korea and the war with Mongols
D. Battle of Sekigahara
E. Tokugawa Household's impelmentation of peacekeeping


Now, please continue to amuse me.

[emessen]

to me this is no longer a debate between samurai and knights..

both are trained well.. both have advatages over the other...
to put it bluntly.. there are too many variables to consider
in this "fantasy one on one fight" conclusions can not be drawn
without heavy bias

i just find it absurd that you think just because a samurai happens
to be a farmer fisherman herder hunter gather whatever he is
not as capable a warrior as a european soldier

[aahhsin]

to me this is no longer a debate between samurai and knights..

both are trained well.. both have advatages over the other...
to put it bluntly.. there are too many variables to consider
in this "fantasy one on one fight" conclusions can not be drawn
without heavy bias

i just find it absurd that you think just because a samurai happens
to be a farmer fisherman herder hunter gather whatever he is
not as capable a warrior as a european soldier

I NEVER said a samurai was not as a capable soldier as a European knight. I stated that Samurais are not some godly warrior that had no par of it's time.

People tend to believe that Samurais and their katanas can slash through anything, jump over buildings. dodge and flash and counter attack and all that stuff kenshin does.

they also believe European knights wear big clunky trashcans and a katana can easily slice up the armor into pieces.

I'm mearly trying to prove them wrong.

And thanks for helping me against Sasuka or the one that said that European Knights were poorly trained.

Hell I'll even quote myself.
The bottom line. The better fighter wins. Anygiven time a Knight can kill a samurai and vise versa.

[emessen]

since you said that samurai were farmers...

maybe not, but time and time again professional soldiers (as a group) fight better then farmers.

don't you wonder why all countries use soldiers to fight instead of farmers? and i'm 100% sure that if a soldier and a farmer fight you'll bet on the soldier

and said the above...

can be interpreted as saying that samurai who happen to be a farmers as well
would lose to full time soldiers...

[nubby]

Ninjas are better. Why?
Because these guys are cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet.

1. Ninjas are mammals.
2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

Q: Why is everyone so obsessed about ninjas?
A: Ninjas are the ultimate paradox. On the one hand they don't give a crap, but on the other hand, ninjas are very careful and precise.

Q: I heard that ninjas are always cruel or mean. What's their problem?
A: Whoever told you that is a total liar. Just like other mammals, ninjas can be mean OR totally awesome.

Q: What do ninjas do when they're not cutting off heads or flipping out?
A: Most of their free time is spent flying, but sometime they stab.


You can find out more about ninjas at REAL Ultimate Power!!! (http://www.realultimatepower.net/)

[NinjaSetsuna]

Ninjas are better. Why?
Because these guys are cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet.

1. Ninjas are mammals.
2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

Q: Why is everyone so obsessed about ninjas?
A: Ninjas are the ultimate paradox. On the one hand they don't give a crap, but on the other hand, ninjas are very careful and precise.

Q: I heard that ninjas are always cruel or mean. What's their problem?
A: Whoever told you that is a total liar. Just like other mammals, ninjas can be mean OR totally awesome.

Q: What do ninjas do when they're not cutting off heads or flipping out?


A: Most of their free time is spent flying, but sometime they stab.


You can find out more about ninjas at REAL Ultimate Power!!! (http://www.realultimatepower.net/)

None of that is true, you have it all wrong.

[Slade xTekno]

Ninjas are better. Why?
Because these guys are cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet.

1. Ninjas are mammals.
2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

Q: Why is everyone so obsessed about ninjas?
A: Ninjas are the ultimate paradox. On the one hand they don't give a crap, but on the other hand, ninjas are very careful and precise.

Q: I heard that ninjas are always cruel or mean. What's their problem?
A: Whoever told you that is a total liar. Just like other mammals, ninjas can be mean OR totally awesome.

Q: What do ninjas do when they're not cutting off heads or flipping out?
A: Most of their free time is spent flying, but sometime they stab.


You can find out more about ninjas at REAL Ultimate Power!!! (http://www.realultimatepower.net/)
That was a joke, right?
That was the biggest load of BS about ninjas I have seen in my life. Worse than Naruto...

[baka]

samurais are better sword fighters but thats it if it were without swords or katanas or with any other weapon or bare handed the ninja would definitely win so ninjas are better . Plus thats just the fighting aspect.

[sanjuro]

http://www.entertheninja.com/history.shtml

Ummm... if the ninjas were special samurai after all... but they didn't live by the code of honor... were they then considered to be dishonored? Then again, that's totally assuming that the link above contains accurate history.

[Slade xTekno]

http://www.entertheninja.com/history.shtml

Ummm... if the ninjas were special samurai after all... but they didn't live by the code of honor... were they then considered to be dishonored? Then again, that's totally assuming that the link above contains accurate history.
Lol.
That site is accurate on some points.
However, what's upsetting is the fact that the site doesn't seem very serious. I mean, website apparel? Along with a psychich test [which can only be done with a human being testing you]?
It looks like a lot of video game or anime fansites to me...

[sanjuro]

Lol.
That site is accurate on some points.
However, what's upsetting is the fact that the site doesn't seem very serious. I mean, website apparel? Along with a psychich test [which can only be done with a human being testing you]?
It looks like a lot of video game or anime fansites to me...

The site itself may be bogus, but I've heard from other aquaintences of mine that the ninjas were dishonored since they didn't keep to the normal bushido code. It just seems kind of odd to me that they are still considered Samurai when the normal rules don't apply.

[baka]

so i'll add to my earlier post and just say overall in my opinion that ninjas are far better off ... but this is just my opinion .

[Joe Dalton]

ninjas were used 2 gain information there was nothing verry special about them... They are trained in stealth and will try never 2 kill or engage in combat unless its their asignment.
Samurai were like soldiers they were used 2 fight wars and ninjas were like spies...... I guess thats the most acurate comparison between now and then.
Both had their own importance however should a samurai and a ninja fight head 2 head the samurai would probably win

[Joe Dalton]

Crap im sorry for the ouble post

[deedlit]

I am always fascinated by ninjas. Think I am influenced by a japanese drama where the lead guy is a ninja, forgot what is the title. And like what is mentioned above, samurais relied on their swords alone, unlike ninjas which can throw shurikens and use other weapons.