Eden of the East - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Mystique

2009-05-07, 10:49

It's airing now (0.45am Japan time)
The thread is just made ahead of time each week, that's all.
The Selecao I've been waiting for finally appears.
Hope it's a cool ep. :)

Post show edit:

:hyper-^v^:KYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :hyper-^v^:
(Yes, there was some squealing offline from me too in my room, I'm such a sap...) :heh:

This week, I have to spoiler, that was too insane, it was so much fun! xD
That will be the first 10/10 rating for me for this series. :)
(*squeals* and it had mameshiba!!!)

DRAMA, OH THE FREAKING DRAMA!!! xD
Well, this episode certainly will appeal to the H&C fanbase.
Those who know the generic conventions of romantic turmoil, love triangles and broken hearts will certainly enjoy this episode.
It almost felt like another series, since the tone strayed away from the heavy "sci-fi" ambience of episode 4.
Perhaps that's what made this episode so much fun.
The difference between the ambience between episodes is pretty diverse.
One week, you're feeling a certain way. Another week, you're feeling another way.
Next week, who knows, it is an emotional roller coaster and this week really plays at your heart strings for most of the characters involved.
This week the Selecao take a bit of a backseat to give way to the romantic drama that goes on, but seeds are planted, no doubt in ep 6 onwards, they'll come to fruition :)

I'm just glad I wasn't disappointed to be eagerly waiting for ep 5.
Bring on next week already! :D

...
&*^!
Dear lord, bring back the server for the juiz website so I can see the preview for ep 6 already... :T_T:

hamstar

2009-05-07, 11:48

Kazu-kun

2009-05-07, 11:56

:hyper-^v^:KYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :hyper-^v^:
(Yes, there was some squealing offline from me too in my room, I'm such a sap...) :heh:

Damn, after such a reaction you gotta give us at least a brief summary... PLEASE!! :heh:

Mystique

2009-05-07, 12:59

that wasnt much of a spoiler after seeing the preview pics of ep 5. I'll have to see how good the drama is.
Yeah, I still tend to write in cryptic until the raw/subs come out, then I notice people openly writing about the events of the episode each week.
So to not risk being slapped with infractions/banned etc...

But I needed to exorcise my giddiness somewhere, so tossed it in here for now. :)
@Kazu - if you saw the screenshots of ep 5 (is the website back up yet...?)
Then you'll have an idea of what happens anyways.
Just... seeing it all played out though was like... damn... so much drama. xD

Just use it as motivation to do something boring like chores and then treat yourself when it gets released :)

hamstar

2009-05-07, 13:07

Damn, after such a reaction you gotta give us at least a brief summary... PLEASE!! :heh:

it's not that he/she wont give us a summary it's that he/she cant. Mystique watched the raw but cant give us a brief summary because he/she does not understand Japanese. There's also a risk of making a fool out of yourself if your facts are wrong.

M.Marangio

2009-05-07, 13:59

The website is up again, and there is a short review with screenshots here: http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2009/05/07/eden-of-the-east-05/

Kazu-kun

2009-05-07, 14:23

Gotta say I wasn't expecting that to happen so soon, but I'm not complaining. :heh: It was really cute. ^^

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-07, 14:27

In these single-episode threads, spoilers aren't necessary for events in the episode. I have made a fool of myself before. I'm used to it. So here is my probably slightly inaccurate summary:

Diana (the blue-haired bombshell) wakes up in her luxurious penthouse, shuffles off her king-size bed (great animation of her body; you can feel the flesh) and realizes there is a bloody fat man tied to a chair across the room. She phones Juiz and says "it seems I've done it again." Juiz arranges for clean-up.

Akira is confused and fed up. He almost throws his Noblesse phone into the ruins, but stops himself in time. A NEET recognizes him and calls him by name (we know for sure now that he is actually Akira, and picked his own passport from the pile) and gets angry at what he did to them, imprisoning them and sending them to Dubai, but ends up saying it was okay, that he was to be married, and what Akira did actually helped him get used to society and gave him a way forward.

Saki is at home, helping at the bakery just before going to her interview. Ryousuke emphasizes again that they will look after her until she finds something she really wants to do. She still wants to escape being a burden on them.

Saki meets Oosugi on the train and agrees very diffidently to go to dinner with him. Oosugi is thrilled.

Akira finally reads Saki's message and realizes she might be worried, so he texts her. But she is on her way to the interview and can't reply. He gets Juiz to help him find where she is.

In her interview, the interviewer has already decided not to hire her, because she went on the trip instead of coming to the first interview. He cuts the interview short and tells her to come to lunch in the cafeteria, but never shows. And she has a bowl of beef rice spilled on her. In the washroom she hears the secretaries laughing about her situation and the (intentional) spill.

We see the guy from the car in ep1 again, at a military airport, checking #9's accounts and on the phone with Juiz. He is wearing a ruby ring and is Selecao #1. And we see Diana eating steak and interviewing prospective models for her agency. She thinks she will probably do it again tonight, and smiles. She notices Akira's new expense for finding Saki and wonders with a smile what #1 will do.

Coming out of the building from her interview, with Oosugi approaching (she doesn't see him), Saki sees Akira there with his yellow bike, and off they go, to Oosugi's horror.

Standing by the water that evening, Saki explains what happened and says she can't go home, since they have done so much for her, and she loves Ryousuke. Akira listens quietly to everything she says, then bends down and kisses her. He walks toward the water and says she can stay with him, that he will look after everything, and then says something about making Japan better. I think he's beginning to want to get with the program. She asks him who he really is. He answers that he doesn't know, but he will probably find out.

Meanwhile, Oosugi has called Kasuga (the plump member of the Eden of the East club) to share the high-class dinner he planned to have with Saki. He gets drunk and falls as he is stumbling home through the streets. We see Diana approaching -- but she is headed, with a secret smile, toward another man standing waiting for her on the other side of the street (I think)....

Hayami Saori scores again, with a brilliant sequence where she is explaining to Akira what happened and her feelings about things. Tremendous voice-control and expressiveness, on the edge of breaking down. Akira's calm and gentle, but masculine, presentation is good, too (by Kimura Ryouhei).

Manji Midou

2009-05-07, 15:26

How long is this series?
isn't it a bit too early for em kissing?
0_o

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-07, 15:41

How long is this series? isn't it a bit too early for em kissing? 0_o1. 11 episodes. 2. I don't think so. First, this show is more complicated than that; I still don't totally grasp where he is coming from, and some fairly serious outside events will interfere with or intensify the romance as we go on. Second, who knows what they will get up to in future episodes.

Manji Midou

2009-05-07, 16:20

1. 11 episodes. 2. I don't think so. First, this show is more complicated than that; I still don't totally grasp where he is coming from, and some fairly serious outside events will interfere with or intensify the romance as we go on. Second, who knows what they will get up to in future episodes.

Crap only 11 eps...>_<

Kazu-kun

2009-05-07, 16:25

Crap only 11 eps...>_<

But there's also a movie coming out after the series.

Manji Midou

2009-05-07, 16:33

But there's also a movie coming out after the series.

ah, so that means we will be getting a cliffhanger ending then...and the movie will resolve everything?

Kazu-kun

2009-05-07, 16:46

ah, so that means we will be getting a cliffhanger ending then...and the movie will resolve everything?
We can't be sure, but that's probably right.

Stardust Romance

2009-05-07, 16:48

I officially rate this episode second best to the first episode...in my opinion.

I could not stop squealing...and smiling C: but then I felt devasted afterwords.

I dunno what else to say.

kari-no-sugata

2009-05-07, 17:09

I wonder if next week we'll see a certain scummy manager hanging by his balls or something, for what he did to Saki. He certainly deserves something.

Given that Akira asked Juiz if she could make the Prime Minster say "uncle" as a test of her powers... well, it could happen. (I think later in the ep they said the PM's ratings had gone up 10% or something, lol).

Anyway, a big thank you to Akira for what he did do this ep - to help cheer up Saki. Seeing a depressed Saki is rather depressing - to this viewer anyway.

hamstar

2009-05-07, 17:23

In these single-episode threads, spoilers aren't necessary for events in the episode. I have made a fool of myself before. I'm used to it. So here is my probably slightly inaccurate summary:

Diana (the blue-haired bombshell) wakes up in her luxurious penthouse, shuffles off her king-size bed (great animation of her body; you can feel the flesh) and realizes there is a bloody fat man tied to a chair across the room. She phones Juiz and says "it seems I've done it again." Juiz arranges for clean-up.

Akira is confused and fed up. He almost throws his Noblesse phone into the ruins, but stops himself in time. A NEET recognizes him and calls him by name (we know for sure now that he is actually Akira, and picked his own passport from the pile) and gets angry at what he did to them, imprisoning them and sending them to Dubai, but ends up saying it was okay, that he was to be married, and what Akira did actually helped him get used to society and gave him a way forward.

Saki is at home, helping at the bakery just before going to her interview. Ryousuke emphasizes again that they will look after her until she finds something she really wants to do. She still wants to escape being a burden on them.

Saki meets Oosugi on the train and agrees very diffidently to go to dinner with him. Oosugi is thrilled.

Akira finally reads Saki's message and realizes she might be worried, so he texts her. But she is on her way to the interview and can't reply. He gets Juiz to help him find where she is.

In her interview, what Saki says about Careless Monday (or something else; I didn't understand all of that, either) turns the interviewer off and she is rejected. And devastated. In the cafeteria, she gets a bowl of beef rice spilled on her and in the washroom hears the secretaries laughing about her interview and the spill.

We see the guy from the car in ep1 again, at a military airport, checking #9's accounts and on the phone with Juiz. He is wearing a ruby ring and is Selecao #1. And we see Diana eating steak and interviewing prospective models for her agency. She thinks she will probably do it again tonight, and smiles. She notices Akira's new expense for finding Saki and wonders with a smile what #1 will do.

Coming out of the building from her interview, with Oosugi approaching (she doesn't see him), Saki sees Akira there with his yellow bike, and off they go, to Oosugi's horror.

Standing by the water that evening, Saki explains what happened and says she can't go home, since they have done so much for her, and she loves Ryousuke. Akira listens quietly to everything she says, then bends down and kisses her. He walks toward the water and says she can stay with him, that he will look after everything, and then says something about making Japan better. I think he's beginning to want to get with the program. She asks him who he really is. He answers that he doesn't know, but he will probably find out.

Meanwhile, Oosugi has called Kasuga (the plump member of the Eden of the East club) to share the high-class dinner he planned to have with Saki. He gets drunk and falls as he is stumbling home through the streets. We see Diana approaching -- but she is headed, with a secret smile, toward another man standing waiting for her on the other side of the street (I think)....

Hayami Saori scores again, with a brilliant sequence where she is explaining to Akira what happened and her feelings about things. Tremendous voice-control and expressiveness, on the edge of breaking down. Akira's calm and gentle, but masculine, presentation is good, too (by Kimura Ryouhei).

yeah this sounds about right.

The interviewer of saki never planned to hire her from the beginning because he knew she wasnt so serious about the job taking a trip outside japan and also because she canceled the 1st scheduled interview. He told her to come to lunch but flaked on her. She waits an hour and has donburi spilled on her purposefully to get her to leave.

this was a great episode, and a great turn around from the last one.

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-07, 17:28

I wonder if next week we'll see a certain scummy manager hanging by his balls or something, for what he did to Saki. He certainly deserves something.

Given that Akira asked Juiz if she could make the Prime Minster say "uncle" as a test of her powers... well, it could happen. (I think later in the ep they said the PM's ratings had gone up 10% or something, lol)....We'll only see him in such a pose if he crosses paths with Diana, lol.

The cellphone accounts said it cost Akira only Y60 to get the PM to say "gyafun." (I guess that means "uncle", like "I give up"?) But it cost him Y220,000 to trace Saki's whereabouts.

And thanks for the extra info, hamstar.

Raiga

2009-05-07, 17:47

We'll only see him in such a pose if he crosses paths with Diana, lol.

The cellphone accounts said it cost Akira only Y60 to get the PM to say "gyafun." (I guess that means "uncle", like "I give up"?) But it cost him Y220,000 to trace Saki's whereabouts.

And thanks for the extra info, hamstar.

Manipulating politicians comes cheap these days, doesn't it? :P

Thanks for the various summaries, everyone. Although thankfully subs are quick for this show...

Akira's pretty smooth. Nice one. *thumbs up*

hamstar

2009-05-07, 20:03

my favorite part of the episode is Oosugi feeling nausious but refusing to puke the dinner that cost him 800 dollars. Then he gets a call from saki and gets upset again "if you had a bf why the #$@# didnt you just tell me! I would of backed off then..." Then to top it off we see Diana see Oosugi and the viewer knows he's going to victimized by her.

Raiga

2009-05-07, 20:04

Poor guy has the worst luck, eh?

hamstar

2009-05-07, 20:08

Poor guy has the worst luck, eh?

well it's not luck really, Oosugi has no game, he doesnt know how spark attraction that's why he's in the friend's zone. I used to be just like him. I think many guys are exactly like him, him getting flaked on by saki really does emulate real life experiences of everyday people. Even the truck running past him tells us how he feels at the moment when he sees saki with akira (he feels like being hit by a truck). We also see the interview that's completely just for show. This is the kind of stuff that happens all the time but rarely see on television, that's why this show rocks - It's called realism.

Mystique

2009-05-07, 20:21

O.o
*skips over wall of text*
@ kaoru - Methinks the idea for the use of spoilers even for present information, is simply out of common courtesy. Since people post and talk about different aspects of an episode in various degrees of detail, a spoiler gives someone a choice to want to know more if they wish, rather than having the choice taken away from them and their eyes happen to read a piece of info they'd rather have not known. :)

As I said earlier, this episode will probably appeal to the H&C fanbase who're following this series a hell of a lot more.
Since I generally dislike shojo stories, with the angst, angst, love triangles, the 'he loves me, he loves me not' and the rest of it, it was awesome to have the rug pulled from beneath my feet for this episode, rather than coming out with a 'it was obvious, meh' kinda feeling.
I'm not aware of the conventions used in H&C for character art (eg: the entire oval cheek blushing thing to give their feelings away) - so going in blind for most part, prefer it that way. :)
My expectance was more for things like episode 4 (the sci-fi GITS like apect), the intrigue, the game, the murder and the suspense, given that's its Kamiyama who wrote the story.
So to have this soap drama of an episode was kinda like a:
Wha... is this the same series? xD
Anyway, a big thank you to Akira for what he did do this ep - to help cheer up Saki. Seeing a depressed Saki is rather depressing - to this viewer anyway.
Am I the only one who doesn't particularly like Saki much?
Here's a girl who in just 5 days (in their real time) has stayed out all night with a stranger, lied to her sister, asked her friends to lie on her behalf, has a thing for her bro-in-law and strings one of her mates along for ages.
There's nothing about her that appeals to me (yet), she's too passive for most part, although I will give her kudos for asking Akira out for tea, since that takes guts, lol.
To simply say 'she's sweet and cute', just earns a scoff from me, I'm afraid. :)

I can't help but think this episode terribly bittersweet, it'll probably sting for all the "nice guys" out there, since Akira falls into that stereotypical category of the:

"Dark, handsome guy, with a mysterious air, a potentially dark and dangerous past, who's just really laid back but has this air of 'coolness' about him and seems like he'd be fun just to hang out."
He's the 'bad boy' who isn't necessarily good for you, but sure does makes things exciting and can sweep you off your feet.

I was kinda sold on him from his 'I'm a terrorist' line from the trailer.
His voice, delivery and body language at that moment was just like... humina~ :love:
What can I say... :heh:
Seems Saki feels the same way from all the angsting she did in ep 4 anyways and calling him 'her prince (charming)' in ep 1...
He's intriguing and my curious is seriously piqued. The more we get to know about him and gain an affinity for his 'new persona' of his, the more we find out just how dangerous his former self was, I'm kinda conflicted here, but definitely can't wait to see how it pans out. :)
I could not stop squealing...and smiling C: but then I felt devasted afterwords.

I dunno what else to say.
My heart broke for Osugi, it well and truly did.
To say 'i feel sorry for him' doesn't justify it at all especially when he ended up screaming,
'If she was already interested in someone else, why didn't she just <expletive> tell me?!'
(Damn straight)
Tears kinda brimmed there... :upset:

How long is this series?
isn't it a bit too early for em kissing?
0_o
I thought the same thing xD
Short series, yes, but given the circumstances which it occurred.... Akira... well I mentioned the 'bad boy' thing earlier. :)

@ hamstar - I could deny your statement, but since it seems you've made up your mind regardless, there's probably very little point, since it is a justified allegation given how vague I write things each week. :)

Raiga

2009-05-07, 20:23

Well, I guess his tact with Saki isn't exactly luck, nor is his over-drinking, but he's pretty unfortunate to have seen her going off with a guy she never told him about, and the cliffhanger run-in with Diana there, you gotta admit that's unlucky. I mean, talk about a crappy day. XD

hamstar

2009-05-07, 20:56

@ hamstar - I could deny your statement, but since it seems you've made up your mind regardless, there's probably very little point, since it is a justified allegation given how vague I write things each week. :)

translation -> you owned me

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-07, 21:08

1. Diana was probably going for the guy with the umbrella on the other side of the street. We'll see.

2. Mystique, I know for a fact that you are not the only person who dislikes Saki, but I like her. And she is a lot more than just "sweet and cute." She went off to DC on her own. She is 22, not a little girl. She can stay out all night with anyone she likes. She is upset that she loves her brother in law, but you can't blame anyone for their feelings, just for what they do about them, which in her case was keep them hidden. Those lies about where she was were white lies, as well as being very normal and human. She didn't tell Oosugi about Akira in part because she didn't know if Akira would ever call her back.

I can sympathize with Oosugi all too well, but he hangs around her like a bad odor, never taking indifference for an answer, while being too nice a guy to tell off. I can't deny, however, that her comment in ep1 about him calling indicates she may take a small delight in knowing at least someone likes her that much, even if she doesn't like him that much. Not the best way to be, but very normal and interesting.

3. Mystique, as for whether there should be spoilers in these threads, I am against it, but if the majority of people in the thread want to use spoilers, that's okay, I will too. However, the last time I said that, a mod said that no vote was necessary, the rule is that spoilers aren't required.

To tell the truth, I've been through this discussion too many times not to feel quite angry when someone accuses me of lacking "common courtesy" over this.

My point has always been that these threads are useful because they mean we can write without burying our comments in spoilers. If we can't, we might as well keep using the general thread. What are you doing in a thread about an episode if you haven't seen the episode? If you want to speculate, do it in the previous episode thread or in the speculation thread. Rather than that, you want to hang around here and force everyone to put their comments in spoilers for your convenience. Is that courtesy?

4. Another thing I liked about the riding away scene, hamstar, was how Akira zoomed in front of the truck and slipped by it. It gave a feeling of danger, and also of him being determined and skillful. As well as symbolizing Oosugi's feelings, as you say.

Mystique

2009-05-07, 23:22

2. Mystique, I know for a fact that you are not the only person who dislikes Saki, but I like her. And she is a lot more than just "sweet and cute." She went off to DC on her own. She is 22, not a little girl. She can stay out all night with anyone she likes. She is upset that she loves her brother in law, but you can't blame anyone for their feelings, just for what they do about them, which in her case was keep them hidden. Those lies about where she was were white lies, as well as being very normal and human. She didn't tell Oosugi about Akira in part because she didn't know if Akira would ever call her back.

I can sympathize with Oosugi all too well, but he hangs around her like a bad odor, never taking indifference for an answer, while being too nice a guy to tell off. I can't deny, however, that her comment in ep1 about him calling indicates she may take a small delight in knowing at least someone likes her that much, even if she doesn't like him that much. Not the best way to be, but very normal and interesting.

You said it.
It's blatantly obvious from the entire scooby gang too bout his affection for her. She doesn't seem incredibly active (unless only being around Akira makes her bold) and from the way she cuts his call in ep 3 without a 'see you later/tomorrow, she seems fed up somewhat, but she lets it drag and probably has let it drag for ages and ages.
(Well if not, then we wouldn't have the heartbreak hotel ep, I'm aware)
I know of her age, responsibilities and feelings that make her 'human', as she more or less stated it in this episode, she's currently in pain. Her imperfection is partially what'll make discussion controversial in regards to her and so some people, it'll be a source of affinity towards Saki.
For me, I still don't care for her at present, seeing as I couldn't help but think 'how rude' when she more or less storms out of her home instead of 'aww, poor girl', hee hee.

You could place three 22 year old girls in the same position as her with the same responsibilities and pain, but depending on their individual character or attitudes, chances are that they'll react and deal with the situation given differently, if we're going to relate to how human she's being.
(Example: Guy you're dazzled by, brings up your favourite movie especially for you, but hasn't joined you for it. How about going to the projection room to make that that he's, gee I dunno? Not hurt?)
By her personality or as it was written by the creators, she doesn't, but rather just tells Mameshiba:
'He could have told me if he wanted to be alone.'
And writes a note.
-Another girl may have gone to the room to check on him in order to confront him angrily.
-Another girl may have gone to the room in order to check on him while feeling really concerned.
-Another girl may have just left without writing a note or texting him ever again.

Since we're only going to be given the one scenario according to Saki Morimi, at present, it's not enough for me to warm up to her, no matter what she's going through, she's too passive.
We're only five eps in at present, which is still less than half the series, so we'll see how we go and how she deals with things later on, but for now, no go with me. :)
Thus my 2 pence from the 'do not like Saki' corner of the boxing ring. :)
3. Mystique, as for whether there should be spoilers in these threads, I am against it, but if the majority of people in the thread want to use spoilers, that's okay, I will too. However, the last time I said that, a mod said that no vote was necessary, the rule is that spoilers aren't required.

To tell the truth, I've been through this discussion too many times not to feel quite angry when someone accuses me of lacking "common courtesy" over this.
I did say 'the idea is' - otherwise I doubt we'd have the rules written as strictly as they are every week.
I hazard to say, if you've been through this many many times, then people generally were thinking similar thoughts to me.
Least on my end from the moderators (in this case Pellissier) there hasn't really been any amendment of the first post lately, (generic copy & paste?), so I'm going of what I read and making my assumption of why they're fairly strict with it.
I assume at least for the first 24hrs after airing or so, or pre subtitles, placing them within them would be appreciated more than not, but *shrugs* - if eitherway works and mods are happy, then I guess it's fine as it is.

EDIT:
Wow 1/10? O.o
gonzo562 - if you don't mind, please let me know what didn't do it for you this episode? Not gonna rant and rage or anything, just curious to see if you're generally not feeling the series, or if the emotional drama aspect didn't do it for you this time. :)

slayer545-sama

2009-05-08, 00:25

WOW for the beginning of this episode. O_O WTF? Kuroha the new girl is just FAP, FAP AND FAP! :31056: Like that. What bitch though. Cuts the penis off the guy with a cigar cutter. O_O WTF! I admit the guy is ugly and fat but where the hell are the human rights? FINALLY THE KISS HAPPENS BETWEEN SAKI AND AKIRA! FINALLY! FINALLY! Other than that SAKI IS SUPER HOT!
What I liked:
-When Akira at the beginning was looking at one of the missile strike sites and this guy (I think he might have been a past friend of Akira or one of NEETS who survived his attempt at getting rid off.
-Saki's bread faces that the bread store where her sister works at. I LOVE THEM! They are so cute and would buy some for sure.
-It was pretty heart warming to see Saki along with Satoshi meeting in the train and talking. Seems Satoshi tried to cheer up Saki.
-Akira being at his place with dog was nice. I liked it.
-Certainly nice to see the news conference on the missile strikes. Seems others know about the Selecados but who informed them. I though they are not supposed to be known at all.
-Saki is so MOE! MOE! Love her outfit for the job interview.
-Meeting Hirasawa. He looks the be the smart informed type about all the missile strikes not to mention his professional look with that red ring on his hand. Could he be the supporter?
-Well if there is one thing I like about that bitch Kuroha is her white outfit and big breasts. Any guy would love to have sex with her. Well I have my Goddess but many of you would like to.
-Love Akira meeting Saki after her interview. Too bad for Satoshi being all jealous and shocked. FACE IT GUY SHE IS NOT YOURS ANYMORE! YOU MISSED YOUR CHANCE!
-LOL @ Satoshi getting drunk for being pathetic and not confessing to Saki earlier on.
What I did not like:
-If there is one thing it is the beginning! STUPID SHIT ASS BITCH KUROHA! Is she not trespassing one of the basic rules of not using the money for personal desires? I say kill the bitch! Actually I think the supporter will kill her anyways in a matter of time. Why I hate her? Let's see she killed a person by cutting off his dick with a cigar cutter while he was tied on a chair possibly being gagged.
-I hated the stupid guy who spilled his ramen on Saki! Ruined her dress completely.

THIS WAS ONE OF THE BEST SCENES OF SAKI AND AKIRA OTHER THAN THE BOAT SCENE!
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508005137.jpg

Lovely scenery! Very nice! Loved it!
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508005257.jpg

THE KISS! YES! YES! FINALLY! THEY KISS! YOU THE MAN AKIRA! I AM HAPPY FOR BOTH OF YOU! FINALLY!
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508003345.jpg
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508003350.jpg

CRAZY FOR SAKI MORIMI! I love her so much through all this episode! SHE IS SO WELL DONE! SO INNOCENT LOOKING! Her skin tone, hair color and eyes are so cute and MOE! MOE!
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004326.jpg
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004431.jpg
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004649.jpg
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004657.jpg
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004845.jpg
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004911.jpg

I would not mind having the sex with Kuroha but would kill after before I become like that guy who got killed. SHE IS HOT! A BITCH TO SCREW OR FAP TO.
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508001535.jpg
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004813.jpg
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004837.jpg

I absolutely hated this part! Poor guy! He got his dick cut off by Kuroha! CRAZY BITCH!
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004033.jpg
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004042.jpg

In the end that guy got eaten by crows? Seems like it since Kuroha phones Juriz to clean the mess.
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004132.jpg

Pretty funny to see Akira being angry at one who gave him this phone. His expression says everything!
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004219.jpg

The whole part with this guy was hilarious! Seems he knows Akira's full name.
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004305.jpg

Loved the cookies made with the face of Saki! I WOULD BUY ONE OR TWO!
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004348.jpg

Saki looked cute not only because she was holding one of the breads but also because of her uniform.
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004406.jpg

Nice warm meeting with Satoshi it was! Liked it!
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004448.jpg

The same could be said about Akira and his dog Mameshiba.
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004547.jpg

News was nice and informative about the missile strikes.
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004640.jpg

The new guy Hirasawa looks interesting, smart and mysterious still with his red ring on his hand.
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004717.jpg

WTH is this? A selection for models? Must be.
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004752.jpg

This was just terrible! SCREW YOU IDIOT PERSON WHO RUINED SAKI'S DRESS! What a waste of RAMEN!
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004930.jpg

Of course Saki refuses he cleans that since she is a girl.
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508004944.jpg

Saki's sister is as cute as Saki but of course this scene made me suspicious of something is up judging from how her sister reacted about the phone call.
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508005032.jpg

SAKI MORIMI DON'T CRY! DON'T FEEL SAD BECAUSE I AM CRYING WITH YOU! FELT SO BAD SEEING HER LIKE THIS! TT_TT TT_TT :(
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508005109.jpg
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http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508005247.jpg

Sure was nice of Akira to have come pick up Saki at her most down moment.
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508005121.jpg

LOL @ Satoshi getting drunk because Saki got another guy in her life! TOO BAD LOSER! FIND SOMEONE ELSE!
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508005307.jpg

Possible theories.......Could Satoshi join up with Kuroha (since she is interested in #9) to screw over Akira because Saki is with him?
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/slayer545/snapshot20090508005327.jpg

NakedAngelX

2009-05-08, 00:41

ouch that ain't good news, seems like he's gonna get his weewee chopped off and die lol. And she's gonna feel horrible for a while after that. But that women sure got one sick hobby~~

slayer545-sama

2009-05-08, 00:55

ouch that ain't good news, seems like he's gonna get his weewee chopped off and die lol. And she's gonna feel horrible for a while after that. But that women sure got one sick hobby~~
You mean Satoshi or Akira? Yeah I would be also careful of girls like her.

Yushi

2009-05-08, 01:31

That man got his WEE WEE CUT OFF?! So THAT'S what the blood was ....I thought that metal thing were handcuffs or something. EWWWW ><
That aside, awww the kiss :) I didn't see it as a romantic kiss, however. I saw it more as a reassuring gesture to comfort her like "It's okay, don't worry. I'll take care of you." But still it was so cute ^_^ Does that mean they're going to live together then? I sure wouldn't mind that~!

aohige

2009-05-08, 01:34

It's called realism.

Right.
When was the last time you were approached by a serial-killing penis-slicing seductive mistress when you were getting your ass drunk over broken heart? :heh:

hamstar

2009-05-08, 02:27

Right.
When was the last time you were approached by a serial-killing penis-slicing seductive mistress when you were getting your ass drunk over broken heart? :heh:

lol well I wont deny the selecao and all the things surrounding it really push the boundaries of realism. You have phones that can wire a 100 million dollars and virtually pay for anything from murder to bribing practically anyone you please. Not to mention the science fiction of wiping out memory from the brain.

but aside of that the human relationships we see and the human nature of characters like saki & Oosugi are things we see in real life. It's harder to talk about the selecao because these are people placed in extraordinary circumstances.

NakedAngelX

2009-05-08, 08:29

You mean Satoshi or Akira? Yeah I would be also careful of girls like her.

I meant Saki's gonna feel horrible for not meeting him as promised, therefore caused his death probably~~ And then goes into the typical "fuck if i were strong he wouldn't have to die" or something like that lol.

But let's hope the author'll make it different.

orion

2009-05-08, 09:00

You could place three 22 year old girls in the same position as her with the same responsibilities and pain, but depending on their individual character or attitudes, chances are that they'll react and deal with the situation given differently, if we're going to relate to how human she's being.
(Example: Guy you're dazzled by, brings up your favourite movie especially for you, but hasn't joined you for it. How about going to the projection room to make that that he's, gee I dunno? Not hurt?)
By her personality or as it was written by the creators, she doesn't, but rather just tells Mameshiba:
'He could have told me if he wanted to be alone.'
And writes a note.
-Another girl may have gone to the room to check on him in order to confront him angrily.
-Another girl may have gone to the room in order to check on him while feeling really concerned.
-Another girl may have just left without writing a note or texting him ever again.

Since we're only going to be given the one scenario according to Saki Morimi, at present, it's not enough for me to warm up to her, no matter what she's going through, she's too passive.
We're only five eps in at present, which is still less than half the series, so we'll see how we go and how she deals with things later on, but for now, no go with me. :)
Thus my 2 pence from the 'do not like Saki' corner of the boxing ring. :)

From the Saki sidelines...

Just call her Hachi (as in Nana Komatsu from NANA). That's prob what the female viewers are being reminded of.

She's going with the flow and her indecisiveness causes a lot of pain. She prob is still expecting Akira to save her. On top of being a Messiah, he's now Saki's "Prince".

Manji Midou

2009-05-08, 13:05

Right.
When was the last time you were approached by a serial-killing penis-slicing seductive mistress when you were getting your ass drunk over broken heart? :heh:

l'v heard of angry lovers who have been cheated on cut their mans sausage while they where asleep... there's this one occasion where the cops chased after some stray dog that had the thrown away sausage in his mouth.
mmm, good time. :heh:

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-08, 13:31

Good point about Hachi and Saki, orion. But Saki is a much less flighty and emotionally exuberant character. And she graduated from college, whereas Hachi hardly got in. Nevertheless, from the very beginning, we know that she is hoping for a prince. If you can't get into that kind of old-fashioned feminine attitude, then it's reasonable for you not to warm up to her.

The idea that she never went to look in the projection booth bothered me, too, Mystique, but is probably wrong. She probably went up and looked through the window and didn't see him. She could then have gone to the apartment and not found him there, either. She had no reason to suspect foul play. More reason to suspect he had just run off again. Anyway, it's not for sure that she didn't check on him.

In Washington, she was determined to throw her coin even after the police had talked to her. She is not a fraidy-cat, really. She went off to Washington on her own. She went into that run-down apartment building on her own. She agreed to go back to Japan with the Naked Prince, etc.

I guess her going with the flow hurts Oosugi (I like to call him that because she does, and also because it is a cute homophone for "too much"). But she really isn't going with the flow there. She treats him only as a friend. The rest is his problem.We see Oosugi in a still from ep6, so I think Diana didn't go for him. At least he is still alive and whole.As for the job, Ryousuke could see that she wasn't too enthusiastic. That's why he repeats that she can wait until she finds a job she likes. She wanted to work in publishing but I think she rejected a job offer there because she felt the attitude wasn't right. So she got provisionally accepted to the construction company -- then took off for America on her graduation trip rather than be available for the first interview they suggested. Seems like a fairly normal level of irresponsibility to me. And perhaps a subconscious desire not to have that job she didn't want. Saving herself for helping Akira save the world, lol.

By the way, I think Ryousuke may have feelings for Saki, too. He is so ready to keep supporting her. And they showed Asako in the background as he said that this time, as if to possibly hint at something like that.

As for spoilers, if you look at post #1, you see the rule "Spoilers about future events must not be posted in this thread." Spoilers about events in this very episode are specifically not mentioned.

Diana (Shiratori Diana Kuroha): I'm hoping she's only killing bad people.

slayer545-sama

2009-05-08, 14:17

Stardust Romance

2009-05-08, 16:48

O.o

Am I the only one who doesn't particularly like Saki much?
Here's a girl who in just 5 days (in their real time) has stayed out all night with a stranger, lied to her sister, asked her friends to lie on her behalf, has a thing for her bro-in-law and strings one of her mates along for ages.
There's nothing about her that appeals to me (yet), she's too passive for most part, although I will give her kudos for asking Akira out for tea, since that takes guts, lol.
To simply say 'she's sweet and cute', just earns a scoff from me, I'm afraid. :)

You're not alone on that.
She's neutral for me but I hope she doesn't suffer too much from the passive-syndrome that so many heroines in shoujo do. It becomes quite annoying but I'm guessing that's all gonna change soon once we go further on....hopefully :heh:

Saki may be bold at parts but I don't understand why she doesn't just tell Oosugi straight up? Yeah I can understand the "he's too nice to hurt" part but that's just made the sitution worse. Maybe she didn't want Oosugi to be hurt like her for the fear of rejection as she did with Ryousuke so she played along? Or maybe like mentioned, she enjoys the attention from someone else alittle bit even though she doesn't like him back. Either way, love sucks :[

It's still cruel but I guess Oosugi just has to cope with it.

Wooooow. I feel stupid.
So the blue-haired chick cuts off guys' penises? O__O

That reminds me of that one case with this crazy-ass woman that cuts off her husband's ding-dong and outta nowhere, her husband becomes a superstar among porny women and crap because of the tragic story. I think it happened in the 80's or 90's xD

I probably got the WHOLE thing wrong though.

Edgewalker

2009-05-08, 17:04

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-08, 21:50

The way this is going and the low episode count is starting to make me fear that this may become another Rideback, with the series feeling rushed and jumpy at the end due to not enough time for major in-between development. :(It's possible, but they seem to be moving things alone at a pretty good clip so far, so I'm not worrying yet. I'm more worried that they will end the anime at an unsatisfactorily incomplete point, in order to save the big ending for the movie, which doesn't come out until the fall.

MeoTwister5

2009-05-08, 22:17

Still waiting for subs.:(

orion

2009-05-08, 22:48

The idea that she never went to look in the projection booth bothered me, too, Mystique, but is probably wrong. She probably went up and looked through the window and didn't see him. She could then have gone to the apartment and not found him there, either. She had no reason to suspect foul play. More reason to suspect he had just run off again. Anyway, it's not for sure that she didn't check on him.

But that only potentially proves that she was avoiding disappointment. She didn't want it confimed that her "Prince" was dumping her. So rather than confirm that he wasn't interested in her, she didn't do a thorough check and left preserving her "Prince" fantasy. Only to email him hoping that he would answer her later.

In Washington, she was determined to throw her coin even after the police had talked to her. She is not a fraidy-cat, really. She went off to Washington on her own. She went into that run-down apartment building on her own. She agreed to go back to Japan with the Naked Prince, etc.

This proves that she is an awful judge of what is considered a safe thing to do. Idiot and naive is what I'd call her just like Hachi.

It doesn't take a brave person to travel from NY to Washington DC on her own. It's only 204 miles (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_distance_between_Washington_DC_and_New _York). It could easily be arranged by the travel agency that booked her trip.

Not obeying a police order near the capitol is just plain insane. Especially tossing an object onto the White House lawn.

Going to a run down area of Washington DC to retrieve your coat shows how naive and much of an idiot she really was. No one in their right minds would have given their coat , scarf and hat to a naked man waving a gun unless under duress. No one would have entered into a friendly conversation with that person either. Fall in love with said person on sight or for that matter accompany said person to his apartment in Tokyo are things that impulsive, naive people do. (like Hachi)

So she managed to graduate from college. Saki still isn't doing anything with her degree like Hachi didn't have any incentive to better herself. Saki is a NEET.

@BunnyCupCakes: Bobbit case (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorena_Bobbitt)

Raiga

2009-05-08, 22:59

Still waiting for subs.:(

Subs are out by gg.

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-08, 23:50

...Saki is a NEET....She is now that that interview flopped, lol. Before that, she was a provisionally accepted employee who had just finished four years of college.

You classify all the daring things she does as stupid. We can agree to disagree about that, but even if they are stupid, they mean she is not a mouse. It's only by doing those weird things that she gives us a story. Going from Japan to NYC with her classmates was normal (if a bit irresponsible because she skipped an interview). Leaving her classmates and going off on her own in an alien country was bold. At least in her cultural context.

But as you say, she is definitely a Hachi variant -- as far as we know so far. Hachi was a great character, too. I'm not looking for someone to base my life on, but for a character to enjoy by identifying with.

I enjoy her. Others are free not to, and I can understand why they don't. She's hardly either a feminist ideal or a shounen heroine. She's a confused young woman who has lost her parents and is living in an emotionally untenable situation, has no attractive job on tap, and doesn't know what to do with her life. Until episode 6, perhaps.The source I used for my characters/seiyuus page said that it was Saki who founded the recycling society known as Eden of the East.Her interaction with naked Akira was pretty much a fantasy -- her giving her clothes was the most unrealistic part of the show so far, for me -- but maybe we can say that his personal charm overcame his nakedness -- which she enjoyed peeking through her fingers at, anyway.

Cal-Reflector

2009-05-09, 00:46

I started watching this show because I spotted a Morita-lookalike and a Ayu-lookalike (from Hachikuro) in main character capacity and I thought: "Damn, maybe Umino Chika is going to do it right this time and have them get together!" Wasn't disappointed.

Really interesting show so far. Maybe the most original concept since Speedgrapher (What a trainwreck). Production quality is top notch. Seeing Umino's art, which leans towards the pretty and fluffy in this new light is also very interesting. Can you just imagine the producers going up to her with their roster of characters?

Producer: So for starters we'd like you to draw up the hero. He should be Whimsical, confident, carefree, charismatic, sensitive, somewhat eccentric...

Umino: Sure thing. I have him right here *Pulls out drawings of Morita Shinobu*

Producer: The heroine: She should be... normal. Kind, worried about her future as she transitions from student to independent member of society. She should be seen as clinging to certain romantic notions which she feels she must surrender as she becomes an adult. Can you do that?

Umino: Easy. *Pulls out drawings of Yamada Ayumi* Dude, this is too easy.

Producer: Then we want you design a rich, sexy lady who enjoys handcuffing and cutting off men's dicks and then leaves their bodies to be eaten by birds.

Umino: ...............

hamstar

2009-05-09, 01:05

lmao @ the saki ownage by orion.

kamikazex

2009-05-09, 03:56

well it's nice to know that he didnt kill all the neets

aohige

2009-05-09, 04:10

izmosmolnar

2009-05-09, 04:46

To be perfectly blunt I didn't particularly enjoyed that episode. I consider it the weakest so far.
There's just too much Saki, too much romance and not enough mistery for me. I wasn't particularly fond of the balance between them.
Some of you may dislike me for that, but I actually consider this whole thing with Saki the least interesting aspect of the show. I dunno maybe I just find her too plain, bit too illogical and uninteresting, plus a bit of a hypocrite too. It's clear she feels guilty to burden her sis and bro in law, but than why the hell she flew to the US?
According to that heartbroken guy, there is a mutual friend who didn't travelled at all, which means it was an optional excursion, so why did Saki further burdened their sister by flying halfway across the globe? I made some calculations by the way, only the flight cost about a bit more than 2 weeks worth of wage in Tokyo area's minimal wage (I have no clue what's the average earnings there). So yeah sure, "You guys are hurting me with your kindness, but can I borrow a month worth of income to go to the US?".
The other thing is her Job interview. If she didn't attended the first one and she didn't even apologized and cancelled it politely few hours before, how did she expected they gonna accept her? It's not a rocket science to expect they might not be happy about how she ignored the first interview, yet she doesn't even notice the small subtle hints the manager says, that he isn't satisfied (they were kinda obvious to be honest).
Oh yeah, it's interesting to note she doesn't even care about the loser guy, as much to call him and lie something she's not gonna make it to the dinner she agreed to go with him. (She wasn't enthusiastic in the first place, but the guy would deserve at least a message with some apology, after the supposed "friendship" they had).
For me the whole romance aspect lost it's creditability when they flew back to Japan from US (so they already spent ~20 hours together), yet Akira didn't even told her he is amnesiac. Than did they even speak with each other? Because he didn't know about Careless monday neither, nor did they speak about films, and it's evident they didn't talk about personal infos either.
Than we see the "love triangle"-s third edge, the heartbroken guy. I don't know why did he had to attend the dinner, if he didn't paid in advance (and he only made the reservation that day). In my eyes he behaves a bit irrational too, I know he is probably in love, but he still didn't notice, Saki doesn't really care about her the way he'd like to (of course I'm not blaming him, I believe it happens with everyone). I feel like he's most probably not directly related to the mistery aspect, and his person is just a some sort of "cliche", the obligatory "love triangle side" to the main romance story. Of course it's possible he gonna have some major role later on, but now I would regard him unneeded (of course I'm a bit of jerk :p )

The only mysterious clue/intrique the episode shown us, is that Juiz might be able to control animals (at least it implies so, even though I can't even imagine how she does it), and that #1 have the option to "delete" purchase history at the selecao screen (near refresh, and the other option). Though it makes me think whether it cost anything to delete something through that option? Because Akira was charged by someone for deleting his 2 month worth of account history.
At least we know the NEET-s are alive, but I wonder why did Akira transported them to Dubai? It's not like it's a cheap place. And I'm sure as hell the arabs aren't so happy to meet 20000 japanese NEETs either.
I wonder about the psycho lady (#11) too. I already complained in the speculation thread about her "method-s", the illogicality why is she "selected", and how come that the Supporter ignores her sick murders, but it makes me wonder how does she know about #1 being the possible Supporter? It's clear she set the phone too, to see the purchases other selecaos making, but it puzzles me she doesn't even keep it silent and just say her thoughts loudly to her whole "team". And they even know about her little guilty pleasure she does at nights, when she dismembers and kills innocents. Gee, I honestly don't know what to think about her, I wonder what is she spending her money besides cleaning up the bodies. I still find it unjustified, that the brain surgeon had to die early with unused money, yet the blue haired girl kills innocents every night and no one is punishing her.

Field of Lilies

2009-05-09, 04:49

Though I'm enjoying the Saki debate, I'm not getting involved and instead point out some other plot-related things I noticed this episode:

1) The higher ups know about Selecao. As they refer to them as n organization, they probably don't have the whole picture, but I do wonder about their source. Is Juiz leaving traces after all? Or is one of the Selecao deliberately leaking info?

2) The NEET guessed that Akira has had his memory wiped. I guess that means that, though very expensive, the existence of such technology is known by the general public.

3) Akira once again mentioned Johnny. I really want to know to which movie character he is referring, as he's comparing himself with the character here.

slayer545-sama

2009-05-09, 04:53

Usually I watch anime many times to make it more notes on my research. This series I have learned a few things I can correlate now. Japan has problems with NEETS because much of society rejects of who they are before becoming one such is the case with jobs. The case of the crazy shooter in Dawson college within Canada, Montreal known as Kimveer Gill is the perfect example. Let me explain:
He lost his job because they layed him off (Morimi gets rejected because she did do as she was told) then proceeded to find another without success. Gill refused welfare (Saki refuses to be taken care by Ryosuke and her sister). In the end Gill kills a whole bunch of people due to media influence (Saki refuses to go home and who knows what is to follow). My point is society here is at fault.

I am also thinking that Akira tried to help the NEETS but realized it would cost too much. Also be all aware the missile were fired from a cruiser which means military and can also mean Juriz being ordered to do so.

So I think one though (Akira) saving the NEETS would help Japan and the other (at this point I will go with Mr. Red Ring) though to provoke Japan would make them into war so to save them from their doom. In any case correlating this with reality Japan is slumping into deep economic holes like other countries are as well. The point being this series is about saving Japan.

I think this anime is giving out a message. Those who can read deep into will know and that follow the Japanese news at the same time. I am going to start to get serious on some issues here in this forum because I do have personal interests that I want people to respond to things like this as to see reactions as well as opinions.

Should Akira try to stop the missiles it would mean he realized that stopping further attacks such as these would save Japan as well. Question is one who does this; how will he realize it and stop #9. This could be clash between #1 and #9 with Saki/Kuroha as meddlers. Others that join up might be on one side or other. This being said this episode got me curious into further thinking than just likes and not likes.

I also do think the scenery is getting better but is it only to show us that this world is worth saving when really pollution in reality as done irreversible damage. Of course no one will tell you but all are smart enough to figure that one out by reading and logic.

BetoJR

2009-05-09, 05:41

My point is society here is at fault.
Really? A crazy, self-righteous bastard kills a bunch of people, someone claims it to be due to the media's influence, and then it becomes society's fault? I mean, really?

People should always be held responsible and accountable for their own actions. Passing the blame around always leads to disgrace.

Schneizel

2009-05-09, 06:49

3) Akira once again mentioned Johnny. I really want to know to which movie character he is referring, as he's comparing himself with the character here.
I think Johnny is somehow the name he has for the NEETs. When he falls off the bridge and you see all of the skeletons that he calls Johnnies, he also calls them a bunch of good for nothings.

slayer545-sama

2009-05-09, 06:49

Really? A crazy, self-righteous bastard kills a bunch of people, someone claims it to be due to the media's influence, and then it becomes society's fault? I mean, really?

People should always be held responsible and accountable for their own actions. Passing the blame around always leads to disgrace.
Agreed but think of it the other way around. If people would be more acceptful of Gill such as giving him that job. He would not have resorted to self isolation which lead him ultimately to madness and in the end that madness was to kill himself and others along with him.

Think of Saki and how her involvement with Akira might not have been so if she got the job. She might have been in a restaurant with Ohsugi celebrating her success. It is at the very a least a possibility. I have seen and still am seeing many victims of what is called unfair. At the very least some that become like Gill may have not been should that unfair have been fair.

tbl

2009-05-09, 07:01

Why doesn't Akira just ask Juiz for his memories back?

izmosmolnar

2009-05-09, 07:10

That's actually a good question. If she is able to command ravens like we are led to believe, I'm sure she could possibly do something to help Akira regain his memories.
My guess is he doesn't know yet why is his memories are erased, and he might think, he possibly did it on his own initative. If that's true, there must be a (serious) reason which caused him to erase it himself, and he'd like to find out that reason, without actually restoring his full memory.
I believe sometimes in the future he might try and ask Juiz to do something about that, and we can see her reaction.

Somnus

2009-05-09, 08:00

I love this show, I really do.

It seems the discussion has already gone through the ep in terms of the romance department, so there's no reason for me to re-state most of it. I'll just leave it at the fact that I'm a huge fan of Akira x Saki.

Now onto what I surprisingly enjoyed more. Firstly, more Selecao are introduced...that in itself is exciting I think. More importantly though, even with the few lines they say you get to understand some things. What I love about this show is the difference in opinions, and viewpoints. It seems each Selecao is taking their own unique approach to this game based upon their individual characteristics. However, there isn't that feeling of "extreme" personalities (well, for the most part...dunno about Miss Model there), but one with a sense of realistic and logical thoughts based off of each one's personality "quirks".

I really enjoyed how they also let Akira answer his own question throughout the episode. You know, the whole "Why give 10 billion to me and not someone important?". After hearing about Saki and her day, he realized those people probably won't bother trying. That's it for now, and I'm definitely looking forward to the next episode as always.

Haak

2009-05-09, 08:11

Schneizel

2009-05-09, 08:26

The Japanese Eden Wiki (http://www36.atwiki.jp/higashino_eden/pages/26.html) shows a 605k Yen expense under Kuroha's number (11) for her clean up in this episode, but I don't recall where there was a cell phone shown with that info. Anyone know where it is in episode?

Kinny Riddle

2009-05-09, 08:38

Wow, 60yen just to make the PM say "Uncle" on TV? Now that's cheap! :heh:

Akira took nearly 200,000 just to find Saki, you would have thought Juiz would allocate money more efficiently considering how cheap it was to make the PM do just that.

Mr Outside's probably morally ambiguous in the way he chooses his Selacao candidates in that even a psychopathic woman (named Shiratori Diana Kuroha in the credits) gets chosen.

The mysterious man with the ruby ring on his hand (he's either the Supporter or even Mr Outside himself) seen in episode 1 is also given a name in the credits this episode - Monobe Ooki (at least I think that's how it's pronounced from the kanji). The bespectacled Seleacao that was next to him is another new character introduced.

So that's where Akira sent all those NEETs, to Dubai to build all those artificial islands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Islands) and fancy spinning skyscrapers (http://news.cnet.com/spinning-skyscraper-images/). :cool: It probably means they weren't killed.

What an ass those interviewers were, not only do they reject Saki in her face, they then proceed to trick her into waiting for nothing in the cafeteria and dump a beef bowl on her like that. If you don't want to welcome her, then show her the f*cking door, instead of showing yourself to be complete assholes.

It'll be most satisfying if Akira can have Juiz teach those dicks a lesson, but it probably won't happen.

Speaking of Akira, he is just coolness personified, first making a careless request to make the PM say "uncle", and then coolly kissing Saki when she's depressed.

All this Selacao conspiracy will soon be closing in on Saki's personal life, as the broken hearted Ohsugi now finds himself as Diana's next victim.

izmosmolnar

2009-05-09, 09:07

@Lolcat3
Well, "Different strokes for different folks" as we all know, (we used to say something like ~"Some like the priest, some like the priest's wife"). I don't really consider the romance aspect so interesting and it just doesn't appeal to me much.

I know she has a complicated relation with her sis and bro in law, but I seem to remember there was a scene somewhere when she said she was bothered by how she burdens them (I might be wrong on that). In my interpretation that means she doesn't like the fact, they are paying for her (the same case seemed to me here in ep5 too).

Well she could have save herself some embarassment, if she reacts the way she knew deep down. It might be explained she is desperate, but why wasn't she desperate enough before?

Yeah, it doesn't kill the romance, but I found it awkward, and I cannot really imagine that whole romance between them happening. Well consider me un-romantic or something :) .

About Ohsugi. Yeah I mentioned I understand how he behaves illogically -it's no wonder since he's "madly in love"- (though I wouldn't have pointlessly went to the restaurant in his place), but I'm not fond we had to see a love triangle to be honest. As I said, it's possible he has some other role later on, but if his sole act/deed was only to "make" a fancy love-triangle, I'm going to be disappointed (and my pessimistic nature thinks that's possible).

As you can see I voted it as Average, since for me there was nothing particularly outstanding. If that would be the first episode I see in the series, I would regard it as an average romance story sprinkled with some mistery and intrique.
----
Oh yeah one other interesting to note: The missiles they carry around wherever #1 is, and curiously enough the TV broadcast thinks it might have been done by the japanese Self Defense Force. I doubt that's a coincidence. But if that's right, than why did #1 possibly done the Careless monday?

Haak

2009-05-09, 10:14

Well, I can't argue against having a different taste or interpretations. I just wanted to share my perspective.

Anyway I enjoyed this Episode. The reason I think it was perfect was simply because i don't see how they coud've made it better. Unlike the 4 previous episodes there weren't any obvious minor plot holes. There was also some good humor (the Prime Ministers approval goes up by 10% XD).

Funnily enough, though, there were no referances to films.

WanderingKnight

2009-05-09, 10:44

Am I the only one for whom the greatest appeal of the series is the social commentary that's been creeping in throughout the episodes? The romance is good, the mystery is good, but the social commentary is leading the series towards (I hope) a very good critique when the picture comes to a close.

There's been a lot of serious dialogue involving the social stigmas in Japan and any capitalist society in general. Saki's mentioning of the company she felt was going to take advantage of her really positively surprised me, coming from an anime. I just hope they carry it towards the right direction and don't fall for any of the easy ways out.

hamstar

2009-05-09, 10:59

I just hope they carry it towards the right direction and don't fall for any of the easy ways out.

such as? I cant really think of any easy ways out at the moment. The only thing that come to my mind right now is that final scene of fight club when financial buildings are leveled with explosives.

WanderingKnight

2009-05-09, 11:15

such as? I cant really think of any easy ways out at the moment. The only thing that come to my mind right now is that final scene of fight club when financial buildings are leveled with explosives.

I wasn't referring to anything in particular, I was talking about the attitude towards society this show is having. The easy way out being a overly conformist and conciliatory ending, which in the end won't change anything.

slayer545-sama

2009-05-09, 11:27

aohige

2009-05-09, 11:57

I just hope Oosugi is alright next episode. :heh:
I was joyed seeing more chemistry between Saki and Akira, but the oh shi- moment at the end of the episode took the cake.

artist wata drew this on pixiv yesterday
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9333/watahnes.th.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=watahnes.jpg)
Run boy, RUN. :upset:

DragoZERO

2009-05-09, 13:02

Craaazy series! I just watched 4 & 5 so I'm still in awe after the revelations in episode 4.

But in this episode, oh man. That Shiratori is one crazy bitch. I cringed in the beginning with the the dead guy on the chair. What a horrible way to go. I bet she didn't even let him get to the best part before cutting it off. http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h276/DianneOnly/blink.gif

I still fail to see why AniDB has this anime classified as a josei and not seinen too.

Ushio

2009-05-09, 13:34

I loved the kiss! *o*

The end if the episode, however, made me bang my head against the wall repeatedly and pray nothing bad happens.

orion

2009-05-09, 13:39

Um, there's no freaking way you can compare Saki to Hachi.
You totally underestimate how recklessly stupid Hachi is.
We haven't even seen enough of Saki for her to be deserving of getting compared to likes of Hachi.

Or are you gonna point fingers at every female leads that makes some dumb decisions and go "lol Hachi clone"?
It's like those 2ch people who keeps yapping Yashigani Yashigani at the slightest of animation degration, not realizing just how terrible it has to be to be worthy of being compared to Yashigani.

If this goes on the whole season, with Saki making terrible decisions and sleeping with multiple men, THEN I'll accept that comparison.
Until then, I think you're just forcing archetype to a character that happens to be in your library.

No just ones that react like puppies.

She did stay at a strange guys place overnight and rode off on a motorcyle with said guy. She strung along another guy and have a crush on her sister's husband. Not to mention the whole NY thing. Oh yeah, that full mouth kiss followed by staying at his place.

I guess we won't know until the next ep what the sleeping arrangements were.

Not that there is anything wrong with being a Hachi. You can get good character development from these types.

Edit:

And....

Let's talk about that interview.

She gave a boring answer. It was obvious at the end that they weren't going to hire her and then she waits for lunch with them for 1 hour in the cafeteria most likely without calling up to see if they were coming. It's pretty unusual for a job candidate not to be escorted by one of the members of the interview staff to the cafeteria as an interview doesn't end until you leave the building. But our Saki stays in that cafeteria and doesn't get a clue until she overhears the office staff after getting food spilled on her to make her leave.

The office staff did have a point about flights. I was stranded in another city myself over a weekend. I flew standby to get back by Monday.

Ushio

2009-05-09, 13:51

She has a crush on her sister's husband, but I don't think she can help that. It's not like she's trying to seduce him.

I also don't believe she 'strung along' another guy. Girls like her probably are too nice to tell him off completely, and lack the resolve to do anything about it. Honestly, Saki's just really indecisive.

Full mouth kiss initiated by Takizawa, not her.

And I don't think they're going to do "it" at his place. :p

I don't see the connection between Hachi and Saki, except maybe their naivete.

Scarlet Letter

2009-05-09, 14:11

orion

2009-05-09, 14:18

Wait, when Saki was telling Akira how much she loved her aunt and niece who was the last person she mentioned? At first I thought she was confessing to Akira she was in love with another guy and then he comes up and kisses her.

No she confesses that she's in love with her brother-in-law of all things. He's prob the one that got her the connection to get the interview in the first place I bet.

She has a crush on her sister's husband, but I don't think she can help that. It's not like she's trying to seduce him.

I also don't believe she 'strung along' another guy. Girls like her probably are too nice to tell him off completely, and lack the resolve to do anything about it. Honestly, Saki's just really indecisive.

Full mouth kiss initiated by Takizawa, not her.

And I don't think they're going to do "it" at his place. :p

I don't see the connection between Hachi and Saki, except maybe their naivete.

It's pretty obvious that guy was being strung along. What was it 18 messages on her cell phone? A dinner at an expensive restraurant? I'll take the train with you to your interview and pick you for dinner later? We're just coming in the middle of this little dilemma from her end. Indecisiveness was also a Hachi thing.

Full mouth kisses can be interrupted. It wasn't like she didn't want it. I suppose that offer to stay at his place couldn't be refused either, huh?

So you think Akira is going to sleep on the floor huh? What did he just do to a girl who confessed her love for someone else? :heh:

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-09, 14:23

...Well she could have save herself some embarassment, if she reacts the way she knew deep down. It might be explained she is desperate, but why wasn't she desperate enough before?...Oh yeah one other interesting to note: The missiles they carry around wherever #1 is, and curiously enough the TV broadcast thinks it might have been done by the japanese Self Defense Force. I doubt that's a coincidence. But if that's right, than why did #1 possibly done the Careless monday?Saki didn't work or move out earlier because she was in college, of course. She told Akira clearly (on the bench by the ferry) that she had offered to go to work but they told her they wanted her to finish college. Which was the right decision. Of course she's embarrassed to be supported. She's a good person.

As for the interview, she was scheduled to be back in time, but the chaos at the airport made it impossible. If that job was the most important thing in the world to her, maybe she would have given up the US trip for it, but it wasn't, so she did it halfway, believing she could do both. Anyway, she's lucky not to be working with such people. As for the trip, also a bit irresponsible, but she and they had probably been looking forward to it for years.

Different strokes, lol. She's my favorite character. But I always like weakness in a character. Perfection and strength are boring. And I don't like judging fiction on moral grounds.

We are getting really strong hints that #1 is the guy who launched the missiles, as representative of a right-wing, Yukio Mishima-like, cabal that wants Japan to shape up. Even the original Akira could have been thinking like that, sending the NEETs off to a Middle Eastern boot camp. But just exactly what they thought the missiles would accomplish is beyond me: maybe they thought people would tear down the government (represented by a Fukuda clone; Fukuda being the previous PM, the old political pro who wanted better relations with China). Or maybe they thought it would convince people to be more disciplined and alert. Not sure.

Blaming Saki for being in love with her brother in law doesn't seem right to me. You can't blame people for loving someone, only for doing something about it. Which she did not do. The worst she did is let it inhibit her love life.

As for Oosugi, he is being consistently painted -- in word, deed, and appearance -- as being just about as uncool as it is possible to be. I can't blame her for being indifferent to him. But if she had refused dinner, it would be an insult she didn't want to give him. And when she had recovered from her devastation -- the feeling that she had got everything in her life wrong -- she did send him a message. It's quite conceivable that she even forgot he was coming, him being such a nonentity and her being so much in shock, as well having agreed fairly absently in the first place. Yeah, not ideal, but understandable.

Saki is no Hachi clone, aohige, but they do share their indecisiveness, feeling of weakness, and romantic natures.

I hope no-one is blaming 22-year-old Saki too much for staying overnight with a guy. The average age of first sexual intercourse in Japan, for both guys and girls (a little earlier for girls) is apparently 17. At this rate, she is hardly as promiscuous as Hachi was in high school.

Yes, the social commentary is beginning to appear, WanderingKinight. I hope I agree with it as it comes out, lol.

I think the reason this show is as popular as it is is because it does so many things pretty well: romance, character and psychology, intrigue, social commentary, violence, even a bit of moe. I mean, it is unusual to have us here all enjoying the show, but with such different opinions and preferences within it. Which is a good thing. It transcends its josei tag. Maybe we can call it josei/seinen. Not bad.

I'm not worried about Oosugi and Diana. There was a better candidate on the other side of the street, also with an umbrella, like a signal for Diana to recognize him.

orion

2009-05-09, 14:31

Blaming Saki for being in love with her brother in law doesn't seem right to me. You can't blame people for loving someone, only for doing something about it. Which she did not do. The worst she did is let it inhibit her love life.

Yes you can. Because buried in that is the possible fantasy that he's going to leave the sister for her. Now it didn't happened. In fact, the couple is happily married with a daughter which causes her more pain. She should have moved out as soon as she got in college, lived in a dorm and got a sig other or laid. However, she chose to stay in that situation. So in the end, it's still her fault.

The chick is screwed up. She held an one-sided torch and got burned. She also blamed the job for not being more honest with her when jobs don't do that at interviews.

BetoJR

2009-05-09, 14:37

Yeah, the kid should know better. You don't fall in love with people you're not supposed to. Now, if only that worked out just as well in real life...

Kora

2009-05-09, 15:11

somehow i dont seem to sense much romance between Akira and Saki, even with the kiss and all. she just confessed that she's in love with her brother-in-law!
about poor Oosugi- i wouldn't blame Saki for leading him on; sure she is shown as being indescisive, taking indirect approeach to tell him she is not interested, but the guy doesn't get a hint himself! it was painful to see him stood up for the dinner, but i'm sure at that moment, after all the stuff she get to deal with at the interview, Oosugi was not the first thing on her mind; Akira just happened to meet her first.

Noe

2009-05-09, 15:18

Well, that was a waste of a beef bowl. Cute kiss imho.

izmosmolnar

2009-05-09, 15:20

@Kaoru Chujo. Well ,the only possible way to accomplish the Careless Monday without any casualty, is through Juiz I believe. As I said after episode 2, those areas are far too huge to think there was no one at home!
It's safe to assume #1 can order Juiz to evacuate that area and than launch the missiles we've seen to the evacuated locations (of course I have no idea whether they are capable of doing such a damage).
If that's the case it would also explain how does the media know that some kindof "Selecao" is behind the whole Careless Monday. Maybe he didn't used Juiz to erase the evidence after the launch, and he did everything on his own, but left something behind by accident. I haven't got the slightest clue what are the requirements to launch such missiles (phisically, command-structurally financially etc), but I don't find it impossible to do alone.
I doubt Akira gathered the NEETs for some reason related to the Careless Monday though.

I apologize, if I came across like I'd want to crush Saki's character or something, it was not my intention, but she definitely doesn't click with me (hence the proverb). I'm not blaming for being in love for his brother in love though, everyone knows (or should know) that "love is blind".

Kazu-kun

2009-05-09, 15:36

somehow i dont seem to sense much romance between Akira and Saki, even with the kiss and all. she just confessed that she's in love with her brother-in-law!
Did you watch only this episode? Do you think she would have invited him for a tea (ep2), felt dumped after the movie (ep3), been so angsty on her bed while mailing him (ep4), if she wasn't at least attracted to him??

She loves Ryousuke, yes, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have feelings for Akira. It's pretty clear she does.

Katsumara

2009-05-09, 15:45

Did you watch only this episode? Do you think she would have invited him for a tea (ep2), felt dumped after the movie (ep3), been so angsty on her bed while mailing him (ep4), if she wasn't at least attracted to him??

She loves Ryousuke, yes, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have feelings for Akira. It's pretty clear she does.

I completely agree. There have been signs that she has feelings/feels attracted to Akira. That's for sure. She does refer to him as possibly being her Prince in episode one.

That's something I wonder about. The episode one narration at the start; is that in the future, past the events that happened through the eleven episodes? Leads me to wonder where Akira could be if that's the case. Then again, I may be reading into it too much.

Also, yeah... she does seem to be rather in love with her brother-in-law, but that does happen sometimes with the younger sibling crushing over someone she can't have.

Either way, I haven't posted on AnimeSuki in a bit, but I'm absolutely enjoying this series. I love Saki and Akira's interactions, and I'm loving the characters as well. That new Selecao scares me in the manly zone. =[

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-09, 16:06

Yes you can. Because buried in that is the possible fantasy that he's going to leave the sister for her.... She also blamed the job for not being more honest with her when jobs don't do that at interviews.I don't know why you think the idea that he would leave her sister is "buried in that." I don't think we have any indication that the happiness of the family bothers her. And we have every indication possible that she really loves the child, both from her having said it and from her glance at it when she arrived home. It's just loving her brother in law that bothers her. She enjoys having him around, I guess, as well as being pained by it.

As for moving out, she was going to college, and the choice was probably getting money from her family to live elsewhere or living with them. This was a lot cheaper. I think that as far as she and her sister see things, she is moving out at the earliest opportunity, which is now.

But as I said, I don't believe in judging works of fiction on moral grounds. Sure, she might have done things better. But this is a lot more interesting, and more human.

As for blaming the people at that company for not being honest, that is 100% justified, in my opinion. They invited her to lunch and then stood her up and dumped gyuudon on her. That is doing a lot more than just not being totally honest. That is being nasty just to derive pleasure from putting someone weaker than you down. Yuck. Maybe Akira will now take that as motivation to destroy the company system. By the way, I thought her answer was interesting enough. The only reason it seemed cliched to us was that we had heard her give it before, to Akira.

Kora's point about the romance being a little tepid seems right to me, however. Saki has the beginnings of love, but even she at first was dubious that this was her prince. Akira was willing to run away, then came back. He forgot all about her for a day, then made huge efforts to find her. Later, something she said clicked with him, giving him a big clue as to how he should go forward. He likes her, is grateful for that, and probably feels her as a bit of a lifeline in his strange situation. Still not sure if the kiss was more than just comforting her. I hope so.

But Ryousuke is meaningless in this context. She knows her love for him is impossible and is eager to find someone else. It is possible to love more than one person at the same time, especially when one of them is off limits.

WanderingKnight

2009-05-09, 17:06

She also blamed the job for not being more honest with her when jobs don't do that at interviews.

So you think it's a good idea not to be honest with someone?

Perhaps that's why it's called social critique.

As for blaming the people at that company for not being honest, that is 100% justified, in my opinion. They invited her to lunch and then stood her up and dumped gyuudon on her. That is doing a lot more than just not being totally honest. That is being nasty just to derive pleasure from putting someone weaker than you down. Yuck.

The example they chose looks like an extreme one (though I've heard so many things about humiliation in Japan that I don't dare dismiss it as fantasy at all. There's a pretty poignant scene in episode 3 of Kurenai on this), but the general point about the shitty attitude of companies in this capitalist world and the complex reality of young people trying to get a job remains, which is what I find the most important. The gyuudon is just an exaggeration to put a point through.

I sincerely hope they follow this line and later tackle the illusion of "life employment" in Japanese firms.

orion

2009-05-09, 17:29

So you think it's a good idea not to be honest with someone?

Perhaps that's why it's called social critique.

People who switch jobs do it loads of times with their current job. Expecting full honesty at an interview is usually unrealistic. The beef bowl was a bit extreme but she wasn't getting the point after waiting an hour for people to show up for lunch. The interviewer's exit comments should have been a huge hint which is more than what most jobs will do. Obviously, she wasn't worth them spending time and getting a free lunch for. That is the sad commentary about how pissed they were with her.

I don't know why you think the idea that he would leave her sister is "buried in that." I don't think we have any indication that the happiness of the family bothers her. And we have every indication possible that she really loves the child, both from her having said it and from her glance at it when she arrived home. It's just loving her brother in law that bothers her. She enjoys having him around, I guess, as well as being pained by it.

Because this is the female fantasy that some women who date married men go thru, "If I stick around, he'll recognize that he loves me more and dump her for me." When it doesn't happen, the poor schmuck is left emo and going thru a "Do I leave or do I hang in there?" crossroads. It's a very common scenario to be trapped in. I'm sure she loves that family but on a level this is in the background. She's crying in a park saying that she loves the guy like she's realising that she has to end a relationship and move on. Most adult females don't cry over crushes.

hamstar

2009-05-09, 17:42

orion

2009-05-09, 17:55

with regards to saki, yes she acts irrationally but that`s just part of being a woman that is emotional. There are plenty of girls in real life that act just like saki even in North America. You cant really blame her for being he way she is more than a moth that flies toward a flame

In North America, they are called lots of very unnice things and stepped on without mercy. This is what girls here are taught not to do. :heh:

It's too easy to become a "victim" here.

BetoJR

2009-05-09, 18:00

And yet, they still do, don't they?

orion

2009-05-09, 18:04

The ones who are smart and with family support don't.

The ones that become victims. Yeah, they are screwed. Bad outcomes (unintentional pregnancy, rape, death, prostitution, drug abuse, low socioeconomic status). It's not like they are going to live a happy life unless by some miracle they pull themselves out.

But you know, it's prob like that in most countries, right?

BetoJR

2009-05-09, 18:11

You have a very harsh view on women, apparently. Really, girls that go through unintentional pregnancies are victims? Of what? :D

I know some kids who did go through the cracks a bit (and were neither stupid nor alone in the world), but most did not fare too badly. Mostly, it's a case by case thing - generalization, and one so broad as you try to make, is more often than not, a very bad thing.

And I think people do learn from every single one of their experiences, even the unfortunate ones. It just takes some people more time, is all - like our Saki, here. It's not all that easy to let go of an unrequited love story. It's hard work.

WanderingKnight

2009-05-09, 18:16

People who switch jobs do it loads of times with their current job. Expecting full honesty at an interview is usually unrealistic.

And that's why it's called a social critique. You should drop your conformist view and be a little more critic about what is right and wrong with society. The fact that things happen doesn't make them either right or impossible to change.

hamstar

2009-05-09, 18:23

I dont think saki is a slut by any means. Girls cant help but feel attracted to who they are attracted to. Oosugi is just not attractive of a guy to get any girl. As mentioned before he has no game. Guys that have social intuition (game) do not call a girl they like numerous times to get their attention. This demonstrates low value or desperation. Girls intuitively know when a person is low value and they dont become attracted to them. Oosugi showed too much desire for saki and it turned her off. Very early on in their `relationship`saki already slotted Oosugi in the friends zone, after that he already had no chance with her but Oosugi still thought he had a good chance.

Now contrast this with akira that quickly managed to spark attraction in saki. Right off the bat, akira is not showing any desire for saki. He was being a challenge to her right from the start. Only high value men are challenging. This is because high value men get lots of women all the time and they have to screen out the less desirable women. Women emotionally react to this kind of stuff powerfully as their brains are evolutionarily geared to select high value males. There were also other things like his akira`s confidence, he`s naked but he`s not shameful, he leads saki to different places, he continually takes a leadership position over saki. Saki sees akira as a high value person because his confidence and challenging nature. She also sees that akira is independently wealthy when she sees his crib.

finally saki is attracted to her sister`s lover because he`s preselected. When a girl sees a guy that is desirable to other women she become attracted to him. This is commonly seen in the animal kingdom.

izmosmolnar

2009-05-09, 18:44

Not like I want to protect Oosugi, or argue with any of you folks, but I think it's worth to mention, that Saki at the White House said something like ~"Oh if Oosugi would have a phone right now, he would call me". It's possible she thought about him as a friend only back then already, but it somehow implies she might be willing to consider him more. Maybe it's just me though, I don't know...

hamstar

2009-05-09, 19:00

once a girl sees you as a friend it is rare that she will see you as a love interest later.

Craymel

2009-05-09, 19:17

People who switch jobs do it loads of times with their current job. Expecting full honesty at an interview is usually unrealistic. The beef bowl was a bit extreme but she wasn't getting the point after waiting an hour for people to show up for lunch. The interviewer's exit comments should have been a huge hint which is more than what most jobs will do. Obviously, she wasn't worth them spending time and getting a free lunch for. That is the sad commentary about how pissed they were with her.

So she shouldn't be mad at them for choosing to purposely dump food on her lap to get her to leave instead of just telling her to leave. So it's her fault they had to dump food on her lap because she couldn't take the extremely rude hint before he invited her to lunch leading her on... How in the hell did you convince yourself of this?

EDIT: The interviewers behavior was disgusting, rude and unjustified. How they acted goes beyond just not being completely honest.

Stardust Romance

2009-05-09, 19:18

And I think people do learn from every single one of their experiences, even the unfortunate ones. It just takes some people more time, is all - like our Saki, here. It's not all that easy to let go of an unrequited love story. It's hard work.

Damn straight :mad:
I see Ryousuke more than a mere "crush" to her. Sure it's silly to see a grown woman cry and weep over something silly but not over someone you "love". That's a different story. Saki isn't a little school-girl who blushes and giggles all the time and gossips about it. Love works in mysterious ways.

Luckily Saki has Akira :D
Oosugi has...his friends? :'D ( I don't wanna count the ding-dong killer woman xD )

@ izmosmolnar: If she was willing to consider him more, she wouldn't act so indifferent towards him. She hardly even looks his way when he talks and seems kinda...lifeless. I think she was saying that as a teaseful thing.

If she was willing, she failed at it for sure :heh:
That and Akira got in the way...not that I mind.

sikvod00

2009-05-09, 19:41

Different strokes, lol. She's my favorite character. But I always like weakness in a character. Perfection and strength are boring.

Well, I think most people prefer their characters to have some imperfections and flaws. That's not the issue though. The problem with Saki is how weak (character-wise) she is compared to Akira. The male protagonist may have some faults, but they are really nothing more than personality quirks (inappropriately goofy, etc.). In fact, they pale in comparison to his strengths: reliable, assertive, confident, quick-witted, charming, great emotional fortitude, etc.

Contrast that with Saki. Other than being a cute, adorable good girl type, it doesn't seem like she will demonstrate any strengths similar to Akira. There is no balance between the two protagonists; it's too one-sided. As someone else mentioned, right now her role is similar to the super passive characters who gets rescued by her prince.

finally saki is attracted to her sister`s lover because he`s preselected. When a girl sees a guy that is desirable to other women she become attracted to him. This is commonly seen in the animal kingdom.

Or it could be that she has genuine romantic feelings for him but understands that it will never happen since he's happily married to her sister, hence the pain she's going through while living with them. While I agree that Saki's character is heavily modeled after the typical 'damsel in distress', her affection for her brother-in-law doesn't appear to be beholden to such gender stereotypes (thankfully).

On another note, I hope nothing bad does happen to Oosugi next episode, because then Saki will most likely feel it's all her fault and then that will confirm with absolute assurance that he is nothing more than a pity character: pitied by the audience and the other characters as well. What a a poor, pitiful, loser... :(

Jan-Poo

2009-05-09, 19:47

Fantastic episode, I really liked it, one of my favorites without doubt! There are so many things that have been shown to us.

We have definitive proof that Akira didn't kill the NEET, he he... I always knew that it didn't match with the food and the containers. Now we know they have been sent to Dubai. I wonder how exactly that helped them. I somehow can imagine what's the thought behind that. I remember NHK where basically it is shown that the perfect cure for a Hikikomori is to makehim starve, then he'll be forced to get out from his room. Now I guess the the concept is similar, get the NEETs and throw them out of their fancy easy lifestyle and they'll be forced to grow up and be more responsible.
Personally I think this is a naive perspective, expecially considering the high rate of suicides in Japan. Time will say if this really apply to Higashi no Eden.

Another important thing is that the NEET knew that Akira was going to erase his memory. It looks like that there was some sort of relationship between them and Akira. I think Akira must have talked with them a lot. That NEET was indeed angry at him, but it gave me the vibe that it was like a reunion of friends. He was angry the way usually friends are, which means he wasn't really angry. This can also explain the Johnny scene in episode 4.

We finally see number I face. Let me say it as if i was "L": Now i'm 90% sure number I is the supporter.
There are so many hints that point that way. Certainly he is the same guy that is shown on episode1 talking to Juiz. Number XI expects number I to react against another seleçao that messed up. The reason i don't say 100% is because there is that 10% chance that number I believes to be the supporter but in fact he is not.
However he definitely acts as a "supporter" whether he's the real one or a fake.

We now know that missiles were launched by SDF. As I thought this is the work of a seleçao and this also supports the idea that Juiz's power is limited to Japan. No foreign army is involved. It's debatable if the missile attack was done by Akira, however I think I know the reason behind it. The guy that ordered those attacks believes that Japan is too laid down and it should be better prepared on a militaristic level. By throwing missiles on Tokyo he hopes Japanese will realize they can't just rely that much on peace. Peace won't last forever.
This guy however is not a psycho, he made it so to cause no victims. Certainly the power of Juiz is behind this, otherwise this wouldn't be possible. It's hard to determine why the last attack caused victims. Maybe it was an accident, or maybe this guy enraged by the feeble response decided to act more seriously.

The seleçao name has leaked. This is realistic. To carry all those orders Juiz has probably used an enormous amount of people from different places. Many of these people are probably aware of the seleçao, while not clearly knowing what they are exactly.

It looks like Akira keeps at heart the problems related to NEETs. Even with his memory erased it looks like he still see this as one of the major problems with Japan, the only difference is that now he seem tho think the problem relies on the system itself. I'm looking forward to what Akira is going to do. He's an incredibly resourceful guy. Surprise me, Akira!

About Osugi, man he's so helpless! I can't help but sympathize with him, but certainly he's diggin his own grave. Am I the only one that noticed that "Saki-chan"? He treats her as if she was his childhood's friend, and as someone already pointed out:

once a girl sees you as a friend it is rare that she will see you as a love interest later.

I just hope nothing bad will happen to him, he is stupid but he doesn't deserve to die by blood loss from "johnny" deprivation.

I'd like to voice my opinion about Saki but first:

Because this is the female fantasy that some women who date married men go thru, "If I stick around, he'll recognize that he loves me more and dump her for me." When it doesn't happen, the poor schmuck is left emo and going thru a "Do I leave or do I hang in there?" crossroads. It's a very common scenario to be trapped in. I'm sure she loves that family but on a level this is in the background. She's crying in a park saying that she loves the guy like she's realising that she has to end a relationship and move on. Most adult females don't cry over crushes.

I personally have a completely different view. I think it was evident that Saki wants to leave that house no matter what, the problem is she can't. My idea is that she had to endure many years in that situation while hoping to graduate faster and get a job. I think she knows she has to move on, but do you really think you can move on when you have to live in the same house with the man you love? It's nearly impossible. Ryusuke is being completely clueless, but something tells me that the sister knows.

If there's something i think Saki should be criticized about it that she is a bit self-centered. She is having a very hard time and a lot of confusion in her head, however because of that she's not paying attention to her surrounding. She doesn't seem to be aware that other people around her might also have a hard time. This is why she is completely clueless about Ohsugi's feelings. She was supposed to have lunch with him, but she completely forgot that. Well if you ask me... that's what your average young woman do. I don't really know many girls that realize that people around them might have a harder time than them.

I'm completely disgusted by how Saki was treated at that company interview. Not telling a person straightaway that she didn't pass, this is not courtesy this is called being coward. And when someone doesn't get a clue, you don't spill food on them. That was something very immature. I wonder if this is based on actual facts.

WanderingKnight

2009-05-09, 19:59

I think most people prefer that their characters have some imperfections and flaws. That's not the issue though. The problem with Saki is how weak (character-wise) she is compared to Akira. The male protagonist may have some faults, but they are really just minor personality quirks (inappropriately goofy, etc.). In fact, they pale in comparison to his strengths: reliable, assertive, confident, quick-witted, charming, great emotional fortitude, etc.

I don't get why people rate higher characters which are, as you say, "strong". A character that is "reliable, assertive, confident, quick-witted, charming, great emotional fortitude, etc" is a flat, uninteresting character. Characters with flaws we can correlate to or at least understand are immensely more interesting, because that's what character development is all about. "Blank-slate"-type characters that are there to be shaped only by the plotline are boring.

To me, Saki is much more interesting, regarding her development, than Akira, though we still don't know whether he has flaws or not (we lack substantial information about his past self). She's one of the most human female protagonists I've seen in quite a while, if we skip the brilliancy of Kurenai last year (yes, I can't stop mentioning that show, particularly because the way the characters are being treated in Higashi no Eden remind me a lot of it).

Cal-Reflector

2009-05-09, 20:05

Among the many questions in my mind the one I'm most curious about is:
Why does Akira have a safe house in Washington DC with a bunch of guns??

I wonder if the producers will come back to this, because right now I just can't connect playing Punisher in America with saving Japan.

Jan-Poo

2009-05-09, 20:11

As of now, we are completely clueless about that. My guess is that we won't learn the answer until very late. I think the whole thing about seleçao and the outsider will be explained before that.

slayer545-sama

2009-05-09, 20:24

So she shouldn't be mad at them for choosing to purposely dump food on her lap to get her to leave instead of just telling her to leave. So it's her fault they had to dump food on her lap because she couldn't take the extremely rude hint before he invited her to lunch leading her on... How in the hell did you convince yourself of this?

EDIT: The interviewers behavior was disgusting, rude and unjustified. How they acted goes beyond just not being completely honest.
It goes back to what I said about Gill. Rude people created incredible anger in others or depression that leads as far as suicide, which is a high case in Japan.

Fantastic episode, I really liked it, one of my favorites without doubt! There are so many things that have been shown to us.

We have definitive proof that Akira didn't kill the NEET, he he... I always knew that it didn't match with the food and the containers. Now we know they have been sent to Dubai. I wonder how exactly that helped them. I somehow can imagine what's the thought behind that. I remember NHK where basically it is shown that the perfect cure for a Hikikomori is to makehim starve, then he'll be forced to get out from his room. Now I guess the the concept is similar, get the NEETs and throw them out of their fancy easy lifestyle and they'll be forced to grow up and be more responsible.
Personally I think this is a naive perspective, expecially considering the high rate of suicides in Japan. Time will say if this really apply to Higashi no Eden.

Another important thing is that the NEET knew that Akira was going to erase his memory. It looks like that there was some sort of relationship between them and Akira. I think Akira must have talked with them a lot. That NEET was indeed angry at him, but it gave me the vibe that it was like a reunion of friends. He was angry the way usually friends are, which means he wasn't really angry. This can also explain the Johnny scene in episode 4.

We finally see number I face. Let me say it as if i was "L": Now i'm 90% sure number I is the supporter.
There are so many hints that point that way. Certainly he is the same guy that is shown on episode1 talking to Juiz. Number XI expects number I to react against another seleçao that messed up. The reason i don't say 100% is because there is that 10% chance that number I believes to be the supporter but in fact he is not.
However he definitely acts as a "supporter" whether he's the real one or a fake.

We now know that missiles were launched by SDF. As I thought this is the work of a seleçao and this also supports the idea that Juiz's power is limited to Japan. No foreign army is involved. It's debatable if the missile attack was done by Akira, however I think I know the reason behind it. The guy that ordered those attacks believes that Japan is too laid down and it should be better prepared on a militaristic level. By throwing missiles on Tokyo he hopes Japanese will realize they can't just rely that much on peace. Peace won't last forever.
This guy however is not a psycho, he made it so to cause no victims. Certainly the power of Juiz is behind this, otherwise this wouldn't be possible. It's hard to determine why the last attack caused victims. Maybe it was an accident, or maybe this guy enraged by the feeble response decided to act more seriously.

The seleçao name has leaked. This is realistic. To carry all those orders Juiz has probably used an enormous amount of people from different places. Many of these people are probably aware of the seleçao, while not clearly knowing what they are exactly.

It looks like Akira keeps at heart the problems related to NEETs. Even with his memory erased it looks like he still see this as one of the major problems with Japan, the only difference is that now he seem tho think the problem relies on the system itself. I'm looking forward to what Akira is going to do. He's an incredibly resourceful guy. Surprise me, Akira!

About Osugi, man he's so helpless! I can't help but sympathize with him, but certainly he's diggin his own grave. Am I the only one that noticed that "Saki-chan"? He treats her as if she was his childhood's friend, and as someone already pointed out:

I just hope nothing bad will happen to him, he is stupid but he doesn't deserve to die by blood loss from "johnny" deprivation.

I'd like to voice my opinion about Saki but first:

I personally have a completely different view. I think it was evident that Saki wants to leave that house no matter what, the problem is she can't. My idea is that she had to endure many years in that situation while hoping to graduate faster and get a job. I think she knows she has to move on, but do you really think you can move on when you have to live in the same house with the man you love? It's nearly impossible. Ryusuke is being completely clueless, but something tells me that the sister knows.

If there's something i think Saki should be criticized about it that she is a bit self-centered. She is having a very hard time and a lot of confusion in her head, however because of that she's not paying attention to her surrounding. She doesn't seem to be aware that other people around her might also have a hard time. This is why she is completely clueless about Ohsugi's feelings. She was supposed to have lunch with him, but she completely forgot that. Well if you ask me... that's what your average young woman do. I don't really know many girls that realize that people around them might have a harder time than them.

I'm completely disgusted by how Saki was treated at that company interview. Not telling a person straightaway that she didn't pass, this is not courtesy this is called being coward. And when someone doesn't get a clue, you don't spill food on them. That was something very immature. I wonder if this is based on actual facts.
I would find cool if they make Japan go back into war. Show them USA shit asses what Japan can do once they have good weapons! About the NEETS and NHK, well that is exactly what Akira did but on a grand scale. Details are not there but if one of them married and changed then it WORKED!

Among the many questions in my mind the one I'm most curious about is:
Why does Akira have a safe house in Washington DC with a bunch of guns??

I wonder if the producers will come back to this, because right now I just can't connect playing Punisher in America with saving Japan.
It is payback for Pearl Harbor and a conspiracy to take over USA! Hell why not order Juriz to kill USA president? It would be great Bush DEAD! LOL!

Deathkillz

2009-05-09, 20:27

Oh Saki, Saki, Saki...what a complex girl and such a drastic change from first impressions :rolleyes:

I mean the way she was shown up til now, I didn't think that she is this much of an emo(tional) and depressive character, which leads me to think that she is only normal when she is free and on holiday. Taking a look at this episode has shown that she has some serious family problems which isn't a good combination when mixed in with her naive personality (it is even worse when she is the naive type who tries to be serious and mature at times).

I really don't know how I feel about her character now and a part of me is leaning towards dislike. In front of people who care about her (ie sister and brother-in-law) she is acting like a spoilt brat who is trying to act tough and independent, just look at how she doesn't even say "bye" to her family when she left the shop. But when it comes to the real world it is easy to see that she is still very green (example being that she never took a hint of her failed interview).

It's become really depression and somewhat annoying to watch her continue on like this so I am hoping for a quick change though it may be unlikely.

sikvod00

2009-05-09, 20:32

I don't get why people rate higher characters which are, as you say, "strong". A character that is "reliable, assertive, confident, quick-witted, charming, great emotional fortitude, etc" is a flat, uninteresting character. Characters with flaws we can correlate to or at least understand are immensely more interesting, because that's what character development is all about. "Blank-slate"-type characters that are there to be shaped only by the plotline are boring.

To me, Saki is much more interesting, regarding her development, than Akira, though we still don't know whether he has flaws or not (we lack substantial information about his past self). She's one of the most human female protagonists I've seen in quite a while, if we skip the brilliancy of Kurenai last year (yes, I can't stop mentioning that show, particularly because the way the characters are being treated in Higashi no Eden remind me a lot of it).

My very first sentence in the previous post was how a good character needs some flaws, so I don't know why you think I'm arguing otherwise. :p
The list of traits I used are what I observed Akira to possess. So do you think he is a flat, boring character or are my characterizations of his positive traits wrong?

Anyway, you don't necessarily need those six traits to be a strong character. Remember that in parenthesis I put "character wise" to emphasis that I didn't mean strong in the literal sense. Saki's good traits right now (i.e. being a good, cute girl) just aren't that remarkable even though she's one of the main characters. She's bland and far too passive. Hopefully that will change?

Now her character development is more interesting since we got to know more about her circumstances at home, but I was focusing more on a character's strength and weaknesses. As for her being "the most human female protagonist", I partially agree with that, but it doesn't mean someone is going to enjoy her character.

WanderingKnight

2009-05-09, 20:41

So do you think he is a flat, boring character or are my characterizations of his positive traits wrong?

It's "wrong" in the sense that it doesn't paint the whole picture of his character--what you didn't state was the main driving force behind the show: his past.

And I didn't mean to turn my pseudo-rant directly at you... It was more of a general comment on how many people are disliking Saki for being "naive, emo, weak" or whatever.

I really don't know how I feel about her character now and a part of me is leaning towards dislike. In front of people who care about her (ie sister and brother-in-law) she is acting like a spoilt brat who is trying to act tough and independent, just look at how she doesn't even say "bye" to her family when she left the shop. But when it comes to the real world it is easy to see that she is still very green (example being that she never took a hint of her failed interview).

Naive characters, when done right (which is Saki's case), can be a very good way of pointing out the bullshit in the expected behavior of the rest of the characters. Once again, Murasaki in Kurenai is a great example of this.

sikvod00

2009-05-09, 21:00

It's "wrong" in the sense that it doesn't paint the whole picture of his character--what you didn't state was the main driving force behind the show: his past.

Well, it's definitely true that his past pretty much makes up the show and hopefully it will reveal more about himself and his motives. To be honest, his unusually calm and laid back demeanor sometimes annoys me, especially when he's around Saki.

And I didn't mean to turn my pseudo-rant directly at you... It was more of a general comment on how many people are disliking Saki for being "naive, emo, weak" or whatever.
Na. I knew you weren't ranting at me. People can disagree with one another without turning nasty.:D

Don't get me wrong either. I think Saki is sweet and I love her adorable, doll-like face and ultra shy voice. But if that's all there is to her character...I guess what rubs me the wrong is how easily she fits into the damsel in distress archetype; passively waiting for her prince to rescue her. Gender stereotypes like that have been really rubbing me the wrong way lately (I just finished a sex roles course this past spring, no lie).

aohige

2009-05-09, 21:14

In North America, they are called lots of very unnice things and stepped on without mercy. This is what girls here are taught not to do. :heh:

It's too easy to become a "victim" here.

Wow, are we going down the path of stereotypical elitist conformitism?
I don't like these suggestions that US values are somehow superior to rest, and look down on others.

Same shit everywhere, dude, same shit. Places other than "North America" doesn't necessary raise their daughters to be stupider.

Edit: responding to ↓
Honestly some people need to brush up on foreign cultures. Don't even begin to explain about some of the more sadomasochistic rituals many women (and men too) perform in many African, Asian and South American tribal cultures.
I responded, because I happen to be on the receiving end of this stick when he insinuated unlike Americans, we shit on our daughters' upbringings.

MeoTwister5

2009-05-09, 21:21

Craymel

2009-05-09, 22:31

Honestly some people need to brush up on foreign cultures. Don't even begin to explain about some of the more sadomasochistic rituals many women (and men too) perform in many African, Asian and South American tribal cultures.

I think people need to get preconceived gender roles out of their head. I'm reading way to much "women do this, women do that. Women can't help but so and so" etc...

WanderingKnight

2009-05-09, 22:41

Don't get me wrong either. I think Saki is sweet and I love her adorable, doll-like face and ultra shy voice. But if that's all there is to her character...I guess what rubs me the wrong is how easily she fits into the damsel in distress archetype; passively waiting for her prince to rescue her. Gender stereotypes like that have been really rubbing me the wrong way lately (I just finished a sex roles course this past spring, no lie).

The thing is that this is going beyond the gender stereotypes, at least a little: Saki is smelling the bullshit and she's realizing something's awfully rotten there. A typical anime female stereotype wouldn't even begin to question the company's attitude.

PS: I find it fun that people are questioning Saki's apparent weakness, while I see some of the very people who criticize her display avatars of moeblobs, one of the poorest attempts at stereotyping women.

hamstar

2009-05-09, 22:42

If there's something i think Saki should be criticized about it that she is a bit self-centered. She is having a very hard time and a lot of confusion in her head, however because of that she's not paying attention to her surrounding. She doesn't seem to be aware that other people around her might also have a hard time. This is why she is completely clueless about Ohsugi's feelings. She was supposed to have lunch with him, but she completely forgot that. Well if you ask me... that's what your average young woman do. I don't really know many girls that realize that people around them might have a harder time than them.

I'm completely disgusted by how Saki was treated at that company interview. Not telling a person straightaway that she didn't pass, this is not courtesy this is called being coward. And when someone doesn't get a clue, you don't spill food on them. That was something very immature. I wonder if this is based on actual facts.

I think she`s just as selfish as anyone else on this forum. Anyone one of us would ditch our significant other for someone that`s better. Akira is more attractive to saki than oosugi so she ditched him the same way the company ditched her. There`s a sad theme where we see people are innately inhuman to one other and selfish. Saki was treated like a piece of meat by the company, she was strung along similar to how Oosugi was strung along by saki. The irony is that she does the exact same thing to oosugi that which the company did to her.

feRfe

2009-05-10, 00:27

Just
Girl-s.

Raiga

2009-05-10, 00:43

Just watched with subs, drastically heightened my impression of the episode. I'm loving the direction the show's taking, and the themes concerning society that are now becoming clear. And now that Akira's got a real sense of purpose, I can't wait to see what he does. ^^

Haak

2009-05-10, 05:05

I think she`s just as selfish as anyone else on this forum. Anyone one of us would ditch our significant other for someone that`s better. Akira is more attractive to saki than oosugi so she ditched him the same way the company ditched her. There`s a sad theme where we see people are innately inhuman to one other and selfish. Saki was treated like a piece of meat by the company, she was strung along similar to how Oosugi was strung along by saki. The irony is that she does the exact same thing to oosugi that which the company did to her.

I don't she intended to ditch him. I just think she forgot (which is still inconsiderate, I know but not so much). If she hadn't then I'm sure she probably would've texted Ohsugi with some lame excuse like she did when she was with Akira. I'm pretty sure she's going to regret her actions in the next episode.

Deathkillz

2009-05-10, 05:28

Naive characters, when done right (which is Saki's case), can be a very good way of pointing out the bullshit in the expected behavior of the rest of the characters. Once again, Murasaki in Kurenai is a great example of this.
Agreed that they are done right but I personally enjoyed watching Murasaki's Naive actions over Sakis (Maybe because I am subconciously more forgiving to Murasaki because she is still a kid...and adorable). And while Murasaki's naive behaviour is used to point out the flaws of other characters, Saki (so far) has yet to do anything other than show herself in a negative light.

Jan-Poo

2009-05-10, 07:42

I would find cool if they make Japan go back into war. Show them USA shit asses what Japan can do once they have good weapons!

You should watch Gasaraki then, it shows exactly that.

I don't she intended to ditch him. I just think she forgot (which is still inconsiderate, I know but not so much). If she hadn't then I'm sure she probably would've texted Ohsugi with some lame excuse like she did when she was with Akira. I'm pretty sure she's going to regret her actions in the next episode.

Yeah that's why i prefer to say she's self-centered rather than selfish. She probably wouldn't act that way if she was aware about osugi's situation. The problem is she's not aware.
However it's not like I have a negative impression of Saki. I am more of the idea that as long as you don't do something really bad you are not to blame, but it looks like many people tend to criticize people for not being perfect and completely dedicated to others.
Imho Saki has her own problems and she thinks about her problems. Now if she cared more about others's problems she would be a fantastic person, instead she's just neutral in that respect. She doesn't act out of malice or something, so she certainly isn't despicable. I also don't see her as trying to steal ryusuke from her sister she just wants ro forget about him, and at the same time she's unable to do so.
At this time she doesn't seem to notice that her situation is making her family worry about her, but Ryusuke himself doesn't notice he's actually hurting her even more rather than help her, so they break even.

About Akira and Saki. Frankly I don't think they really love each other. Saki is still loving ryusuke, she finds Akira attractive because he has the power to ease her pain. She wants to escape and Akira is the perfect guy to escape with. He is the prince that is supposed to save her. In the end i think she'll fall in love with him, but right now there's still a long road to walk, imho.
About Akira... well it's really hard to understand that guy. I think he does feel something for Saki, but there's so many things he doesn't understand about himself so he can hardly understand his feelings. Imho he kissed Saki just because he felt like doing that, Akira is like that. He doesn't seem to understand the deep meaning of his actions. Like he had no problem showing himself naked to a girl he just met.
Saki's reaction to that kiss also surprised me. She didn't look particularly surprised, angry, happy, confused. It is more as if she's getting used to Akira's odd behavior. She probably understands that a kiss from Akira has no particular significance.

WanderingKnight

2009-05-10, 09:14

Agreed that they are done right but I personally enjoyed watching Murasaki's Naive actions over Sakis (Maybe because I am subconciously more forgiving to Murasaki because she is still a kid...and adorable). And while Murasaki's naive behaviour is used to point out the flaws of other characters, Saki (so far) has yet to do anything other than show herself in a negative light.

Hmm, really? I don't see it at all. I see a confused young adult that cannot outgrow her teenager self--but not because she doesn't try, but because the rest of the world will not let her. Her family overprotects her and companies will not hire her despite her being an university graduate.

The series has also been dealing with NEETs in Japan in general, so it's not just her being an idiot or something like that.

I really don't see this "negative light" you say she's been showing herself into. Is it because she doesn't like Ohsugi? Oh, God don't let women have a choice about their love life in an anime!

MeoTwister5

2009-05-10, 09:53

Probably completely off topic or misinterpreted, but I noticed that while she was talking to those male models the camera focused a few times too many on her cutting up her steak and eating it, and the damn thing was probably rare.

Which leads me to speculate... that insofar as cutting that fat dude's penis at the start of the episode... did she also... you know...:upset:

Tamad

2009-05-10, 10:14

I'd like to there's a limit to how psychotic she can get.

izmosmolnar

2009-05-10, 10:14

I almost threw up a bit upon reading that :uhoh: .
No I actually don't think she would... enjoy... to eat such thing. I would say the conclusion you made about her ... absurd murder habit... based on the rare steak is a bit far-fetched. At least I'd like to believe so for the time being.

And also if the case you mentioned might be true, I don't think they would broadcast it in TV for the 15+ audience. That's just too sick for that.

MeoTwister5

2009-05-10, 10:19

Well assuming it IS true, they obviously did enough to drop a few hints for some people to pick it up, rather than say have her symbolically eat a phallic object.:uhoh:

Of course, any protein is good protein for people with too many screws loose.:uhoh:

Haak

2009-05-10, 10:50

Which leads me to speculate... that insofar as cutting that fat dude's penis at the start of the episode... did she also... you know...:upset:

Oh. My. God. :uhoh:

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-10, 11:18

The wide range of viewers this anime appeals to is quite impressive. From shounen fans at the one extreme, who identify with Akira, care most about the intrigue plot, and find the romance a distraction; to myself at the other extreme, a shoujo fan who identifies with Saki and, to be honest, finds the fate of Japan a lot less interesting than the fate of Saki's heart. With all you more balanced viewers in between.

I would like to draw attention to what Oosugi says in the train car. He tells Saki that their classmate, probably the main man in the Eden of the East club, plans to stay on at school for one more year. He then goes on to say that only a person with money could do that, and he's afraid that the friend will get out of step with society and then find himself in his middle age complaining about society, which he had never been able to fit in with. So Oosugi is eager to get into a company and get on track.

Oosugi represents the mainstream of Japanese society: the mainstream against which Saki and Akira are fighting. Saki's response to Oosugi is very carefully phrased: "What Oosugi-kun says is right." Not "I agree." She doesn't agree, but she recognizes what he says is sensible, and it just makes her feel even more imprisoned.

I think Oosugi is being presented as this totally uncool, very conventional guy, who is already falling into the lifestyle of a salaryman, spending too much money getting drunk and stumbling around the entertainment district late at night. Kimochi warui. I can sympathize with him objectively, but I don't find him very congenial. In fact, I don't want Saki anywhere near him. She might someday accept him out of lack of confidence, and ruin both their lives.

MeoTwister5

2009-05-10, 11:29

Oosugi IS essentially symbolic of that downward trend of the cliched Japanese salaryman who works from dusk til dawn like an ant in a colony, getting piss drunk at night like an emotionless shell. Yet this is pretty much what is expected for one to become as a productive member of society; toil all day and don't complain.

Saki is more or less the person who has begun to notice how Japanese people are stagnating in such a manner. She is essentially non-conformist, probably one of the reasons she didn't get accepted and got a bowl o' beef piled on her skirt. Yeah she looks confused and insecure, but this stems more from the conflict between her own beliefs on what she wants and what society wants her to be. Akira picked up on this pretty fast and stated his observation that he's figured out a major problem with Japan today. He goes so far as to tell her he'll do something about it.

Expect something big in the next episode.

Besides the possibility that Oosugi might get his johnson devoured anyway.:uhoh:

Deathkillz

2009-05-10, 11:35

Hmm, really? I don't see it at all. I see a confused young adult that cannot outgrow her teenager self--but not because she doesn't try, but because the rest of the world will not let her. Her family overprotects her and companies will not hire her despite her being an university graduate.

The series has also been dealing with NEETs in Japan in general, so it's not just her being an idiot or something like that.

I really don't see this "negative light" you say she's been showing herself into. Is it because she doesn't like Ohsugi? Oh, God don't let women have a choice about their love life in an anime!
It's probably something personal to me, but such angst from Saki really destroyed my first impression of her. Granted that they have every right to be more complex and deeper than they initially seem *I* just don't really see it as any good to her. The vibe that she gives off is much to similar to the whole angst biz shown in the later parts of Toradora.

And oh no, I have nothing against her rejecting Ohsugi so blatantly...but as he said it himself, she could have at least told her if she had a boyfriend instead of giving him a glimmer of hope (even if he doesn't know that Akira isn't her boyfriend...yet...).

hamstar

2009-05-10, 13:11

And oh no, I have nothing against her rejecting Ohsugi so blatantly...but as he said it himself, she could have at least told her if she had a boyfriend instead of giving him a glimmer of hope (even if he doesn't know that Akira isn't her boyfriend...yet...).

But it`s SO typical of girls to avoid confrontation like that. Talk to any attractive girl right now, ask them if they have any guy friends that like them. They will say they know some guys she knows would have sex if she gave him the opportunity, of course the girl never confronts the guy about it. She enjoys having many male friends for company. Oosugi is the average guy that orbits the girl he likes in hope that one day saki will change her mind about him. Many girls know that their guy friends are interested in them but they never confront them about it, this isnt anything new or special.

Ghostfriendly

2009-05-10, 13:39

Really great ep, shelving the mystery for a bit, and seeming far too short. The NEETs mystery is a little clearer, and Saki's feelings were shown perfectly. She doesn't seem a bad or selfish girl to me, just inexperienced as balancing her needs with those of society and her family/friends, which leads to her hurting people. Saki and the interveiwer both get accused of failing to spell out their intentions honestly, which is really Mr Outside's problem as well...just an interesting theme.

I hope that Saki doesn't end up blaming herself, if Oosugi gets murdered. The cleanup bill will probably show on Akira's phone.

Deathkillz

2009-05-10, 14:09

But it`s SO typical of girls to avoid confrontation like that. Talk to any attractive girl right now, ask them if they have any guy friends that like them. They will say they know some guys she knows would have sex if she gave him the opportunity, of course the girl never confronts the guy about it. She enjoys having many male friends for company. Oosugi is the average guy that orbits the girl he likes in hope that one day saki will change her mind about him. Many girls know that their guy friends are interested in them but they never confront them about it, this isnt anything new or special.
But like I said, I have nothing against that since it is a common thing :heh:

Craymel

2009-05-10, 17:42

It's probably something personal to me, but such angst from Saki really destroyed my first impression of her. Granted that they have every right to be more complex and deeper than they initially seem *I* just don't really see it as any good to her. The vibe that she gives off is much to similar to the whole angst biz shown in the later parts of Toradora.

And oh no, I have nothing against her rejecting Ohsugi so blatantly...but as he said it himself, she could have at least told her if she had a boyfriend instead of giving him a glimmer of hope (even if he doesn't know that Akira isn't her boyfriend...yet...).

How can she tell him she has a boyfriend when she actually doesn't. He only thinks she and Akira were together because she left with him. No solid relationship was established between Akira and Saki yet. She could have at least told him she wasn't interested in him though. On the other hand she may not have even thought much of his invitation she barely gave him a reply it was more like a half sigh... This kinda proves that Saki is somewhat self absorbed though:heh:

Jan-Poo

2009-05-10, 17:57

But you guys think that Saki is aware of Osugi's feelings? I always thought she isn't, but now I'm starting to doubt it.

Deathkillz

2009-05-10, 18:01

I think she has a hunch which is confusing when she does nothing to distance herself with him any further. Even if that promise to dinner was half hearted, she should have known what she said yes too and then later had called it off instead of completely forgetting about the promise...but that just goes to show what type of character she is like, she is rather oblivous to her surroundings.

izmosmolnar

2009-05-10, 18:04

@Jan-Poo. Well I would say yes, for me she seemed to be aware of his wooing attempts at the White House. At least I wouldn't imagine she would seem so happy about the prospect, that a normal friend might call her on.

~BC~

2009-05-10, 21:09

This was the Saki-centered episode I was looking for. I think if anything I'm a bit more sympathetic towards her character than I might have been previously. Regardless of how naive it was to miss out on the first interview the beef-bowl dumpage was completely uncalled for (though not surprising given the Japanese view on non-directness). I also found the conversation with Oosugi interesting as it sort of highlights why the two of them could never go together. He's all happily oblivious to the fact that she's distracted and when talking about Hirasawa doesn't catch onto the fact that he's hitting a nerve with her either. And really what kind of idiot gets excited to that kind of response to a dinner date :eyebrow:. I say it's 50/50 between him and Saki as far as who's to blame for hurt feelings.

Then there's the Akira/Saki kiss... I honestly don't even know if I'm suppose to be rooting for this pairing especially with the way things played out in this episode. So the first job interview was a bust now go find someone to take care of you and be a kept woman? Somehow I doubt that's the message Kamiyama wants to send even though I wouldn't be surprised if Saki takes Akira up on his offer (if only temporarily).

I'm also looking forward to more on the NEETs that Akira kidnapped. I agree with whoever said it was naive to think that sending them away to deal with hardships would suddenly "reform" them. People end up as NEETs for all different kinds of reasons and I'll be disappointed if that's the proposed solution to the problem in this series.

sikvod00

2009-05-10, 21:32

50/50 for hurt feelings? How does him being an oblivious dunce means he's even remotely to blame for being stood up? I agree that he was clueless to how she actually felt (i.e. "I really don't want to be here"), but she didn't even bother to call and cancel on their agreed plans. She totally forgot about the poor loser after getting swept up by her prince. There is no equivalence.

~BC~

2009-05-10, 21:59

You make her leaving with Akira sound like a such a happy event. Oosugi was too much in his own little world of happiness to think of Saki's feelings and she was too much in her own little world of misery to think of his feelings (and plans). So yes, it's 50/50 for me.

sikvod00

2009-05-10, 22:20

While Saki leaving with Akira was not initially a a happy event, she got to be with the person she had a growing interest in and was able to pour out all her problems. Hell, there was even a surprise kiss in return. On the other hand, Oosugi dines at a third star restaurant...with his junior. :heh:

There's no equivalence between not noticing facial cues, which can be too subtle for some, and standing someone up after you explicitly agreed to go out to eat with them (why did she agree to go out with him in the first place???). I'm sorry, but she was being way more inconsiderate in her actions.

I sympathize with her sad situation at home; I also feel bad with how crappy the company decided to shoo (sp?) her away. But Oosugi is hardly to blame for her hurt feelings, especially considering he has no idea what's going on in her life/mind.

I suppose we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

~BC~

2009-05-10, 22:51

Actually, I'm referring to Oosugi's hurt feelings. You mention facial cues being subtle but he's looking directly at her and even if he can't see her face her tone and posture should have clued him in but all he cared about was hearing a yes. I mean he's been after her since they were in highschool. To be honest I don't think it's that he doesn't know how she feels so much as he doesn't want to except how she feels. It's like he thought as long as she was single he'd have a chance.

Agreeing to disagree is fine.

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-11, 00:06

The discussion of Saki reminds me of the discussion of Suzuka. I spent a lot of time in that thread trying to convince offended guys that Suzuka was not a horrible person, that she had valid reasons for what she did, even if Yamato (the guy in the case) didn't understand them and felt as if she was tormenting him. Not that Saki is half as difficult to be around as Suzuka, lol.

I'm not interested in the blame game here, only in the people. Sure, she might have called him sooner (she did call, eventually). But she was in no shape to do that right after the interview. Anyway, I guess I am identifying with her as the heroine of this story, so her feelings are a lot more significant to me than his. If you identify with Oosugi, then you'll feel differently. "Agree to disagree" is a wonderful thing.

If you look at the scene on the train, you see that her acceptance was a very absent-minded "unh," which was like a weak "okay," or "I guess so." She wasn't thinking about that, but about her interview, and he was just pursuing his own little game and taking advantage of her with this when she was distracted. She thought of it as a bite to eat with a friend after the interview. He thought of it as a hot date. I don't blame him. But I don't blame her, either.

Cal-Reflector

2009-05-11, 00:46

For many here, Saki has turned into the Mayama of this series, and Oosugi is Ayu, which is completely ironic and fascinating.

In the best of best case scenarios, wee-wee slice lady ends up with Oosugi at the end of eleven episodes: She plans first on toying with him, then decides to keep him around for her amusement, finally developing empathy and genuine emotions for the plain, average kid who is so down on his luck. Yeah.

It'd be a great twist, especially since the producers have all of us writing Oosugi's eulogy.

JiggleJiggle

2009-05-11, 00:55

OOORRR....

akira dies saving the world and ohsugi comforts saki and they end up together...

but i don't want that to happen!!! ToT

sikvod00

2009-05-11, 01:02

With only 6 more episodes to go, I'll eat my own manhood if Oosugi has a meaningful role after the next episode. Seems to me he's just a pity character.

Tale

2009-05-11, 02:54

Amber.Dawn

2009-05-11, 02:58

Reading some posts here, I felt bit surprised by the fact that there are many people who feel sympathy/antipathy to a certain characters. Some of you treat characters as if someone they knew and even become judgmental to him/her although they probably have their roles in context of the theme development in the work. To some extent, this probably means a success of the work, though.

Yep. For people to be able to relate/feel sympathy, etc towards characters in a show means that the plot and characters have been done well.

hamstar

2009-05-11, 03:02

Yep. For people to be able to relate/feel sympathy, etc towards characters in a show means that the plot and characters have been done well.

yeah i agree realistic/believable characters equals good characters

Stardust Romance

2009-05-11, 07:16

OOORRR....

akira dies saving the world and ohsugi comforts saki and they end up together...

but i don't want that to happen!!! ToT

I'm going to laugh if that happens :heh:
But we'll just have to wait and see if Oosugi makes it out alive first.

Or it'll be one of those endings where Saki waits for her dear Akira to come back over time ( like Chrono Crusade ) but more...happy-like.

What I see wrong in Saki/Oosugi's relationship is the lack of proper communication. It's obvious they won't ever make a great couple but just for being "friends", their communication sucks.

They're both so oblivious :uhoh:
It amuses me ( then again I'm oblivious myself...)

They may want to work out on that if they bother to ever interact again next time. At least Saki was aware enough to call him back instead of never doing it. When you're in emotional turmoil, you can't think for everything.

Haak

2009-05-11, 07:59

In the best of best case scenarios, wee-wee slice lady ends up with Oosugi at the end of eleven episodes: She plans first on toying with him, then decides to keep him around for her amusement, finally developing empathy and genuine emotions for the plain, average kid who is so down on his luck. Yeah.

It'd be a great twist, especially since the producers have all of us writing Oosugi's eulogy.

That would be pretty damn awful. :eyebrow:

MeoTwister5

2009-05-11, 08:10

That would be pretty damn awful. :eyebrow:

If not downright sadistic.:uhoh:

izmosmolnar

2009-05-11, 08:40

I can easily imagine the scene where someone is going to take advantage of Oosugi by making him to confront Akira (and probably even Saki) one way or another. I'm not entirely convinced that would be #11, but she is a likely candidate to do that for now.
#11 possibly knows, or she may find out Saki is important to Akira, since she's following Akira's purchase history and she can certainly see "#9 investigated the location of the girl from yesterday. Price 220000 yen" (or something similar). If she is indeed going to "kidnap" Oosugi and not the gentleman across the street, she might listen to the reason of Oosugi's Sorrow, and if she's a bit clever she could connect the dots together and ehm... "persuade", or "threaten", or "pressure" (let's not think of her method :uhoh: ) ... him to undermine Akira (or his relation with Saki).
(In a nutshell a fancy love triangle as I said few pages earlier).

Edit: Also another thing. Did anyone else found it weird, how Oosugi's friend doesn't escort him home? The latter was clearly drunk already in the middle of the dinner, did his friend expected he can casually walk home after being heartbroken and intoxicated to that level?
What an ungrateful kind of friend he could be really! Oosugi spent on him ~40.000 Yen worth of dinner, and he left (?) earlier than Oosugi, who paid for his share? Or is that normal in Japan, and they really used to be that ungrateful?

Haak

2009-05-11, 10:05

I
Edit: Also another thing. Did anyone else found it weird, how Oosugi's friend doesn't escort him home? The latter was clearly drunk already in the middle of the dinner, did his friend expected he can casually walk home after being heartbroken and intoxicated to that level?
What an ungrateful kind of friend he could be really! Oosugi spent on him ~40.000 Yen worth of dinner, and he left (?) earlier than Oosugi, who paid for his share? Or is that normal in Japan, and they really used to be that ungrateful?

Yeah, I found that really weird too. I was thinking that maybe ohsugi and rejected the offer and insisted on going on his own. But still...

Jan-Poo

2009-05-11, 10:32

that guy wasn't happy about being dragged there in the first place. Even if osugi was paying and all, even if osugi was clearly hurt and needed support. I think he just took the first chance to run away. He didn't seem to care about osugi at all. This both shows how shallow is that character and also how miserable osugi is for not having any real friend to count on, at the point he has to drag his weakwilled underclassman to a restaurant to have someone to talk to.

izmosmolnar

2009-05-11, 10:47

Still. It's pretty shameful. I couldn't look in the mirror in his place, if I were to leave an "acquaintance" (hell even if I would dislike him) behind, when he paid for my own share of a high class restaurant bill, plus said "acquaintance" was obviously deliriously drunk as a skunk due to his heart being broken. It feels irresponsible to leave him to find his way home on his own.
He didn't seemed like a particularly "evil", unscrupulous, unprincipled character to do that.

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-11, 10:56

I think the underclassman was embarrassed to be out on a "date" with a guy. Even knowing Oosugi as he did, he had some feeling that Oosugi might be coming on to him. And then he was embarrassed for having spoken so loudly. So he probably left first. But yeah, at first I found it odd that Oosugi was alone coming out of the restaurant.

I don't think Oosugi is being played for pity as much as he is being played for laughs. His rosy cheeks, and his weird gait coming up happily to his assignation were like signs of his total uncoolness. As was his drunkenness. I'm not blaming him, just saying what I think the animators were aiming for.

Great analogy from Cal-Reflector: Saki=Mayama, Oosugi=Ayu. They are not the same people, but the relationships are similar. (Characters from Honey & Clover, for anyone who doesn't know.)

In any case, "widow" Saki ending up with Oosugi is my greatest fear, for her sake.

fedor mma

2009-05-11, 11:11

Another great episode.I was laughing at poor Oosugi trying to woo Saki.He is not gonna stand much of a chance with Akira around,Akira is just too smooth.Its been a while since ive seen a male character in anime just kiss the girl he likes without any hesitation or stuttering love confessions.

Jan-Poo

2009-05-11, 11:15

Actually that guy wasn't just an acquaintance. He's one of the club and he can be seen in one of the photo on Saki's cellphone in the first episode. He was also inside the car on episode 2.

about saki she might end up as a "widow" but i doubt she'll end up with osugi.

izmosmolnar

2009-05-11, 11:44

Is going to a restaurant with a guy so embarassing? It's not like someone might label him gay just because he's sitting with a guy at the same table :) . I don't understand why he has to feel embarassed about it really. It's possible Oosugi's behaviour embarassed him, but escaping from him, like he doesn't give a crap about him, is just ...sounds lame for me somehow. (I admit, it's possible he's a "worrywart", and he thought Oosugi might gets into a fight with him, but he didn't even tried to cheer him up, or tried to be sympathetic towards him)
And also as Jan-poo said he's more than just an acquaintance, since they are members of the same club. I still feel it unreasonably inconsiderate (or even "ill-willed"), if he left early and left Oosugi to deal with how he finds his way home while being entirely wasted.

However we can't be 100% sure he indeed left Oosugi alone. It's possible the creators are "trolling" us and in actuality the reason Oosugi sits down on the stairs by the restaurant (aside of being hammered) is to wait for him, because he went on the toilet. I would find it funny next week, but I have my doubts about that for now.

Jan-Poo

2009-05-11, 12:27

Is going to a restaurant with a guy so embarassing?

We are talking about a society where a kiss on a cheek is a declaration of love. I agree with Kaoru, that guy is embarrassed because he thinks its awkward for two guys to dine in that classy restaurant. All the other costumers are either alone or paired with someone of the opposite sex. I think he is also embarrassed for being in a place where he doesn't belong, seeing how the others are dressed so elegantly.
I find funny how he blatantly says: "I don't want to be anything more than your junior", as if he was really thinking that osugi turned gay or something XD

izmosmolnar

2009-05-11, 12:44

Strange, I didn't know Japan used to be that "prude" or "puritan". I even thought they used to go out to eat with (male) people like bosses and supervisors on fridays and the weekends.

Anyway, not like I want to nitpick with any of you, but if the japanese indeed consider two guy going to a posh Restaurant as "gayish", than Oosugi could have been more clever and simply go to a Bar/Pub, or something to get pissed and forget about Saki. Did he paid the Restaurant bill in advance,and that's why he so stubbornly and vainly insisted on the Restaurant than?
I know his heartbroken state makes him to behave unreasonable, but if they would label him gay for going to a restaurant with a male friend, a pub could have been like 10x better choice to be frank.

Haak

2009-05-11, 12:47

I know his heartbroken state makes him to behave unreasonable, but if they would label him gay for going to a restaurant with a male friend, a pub could have been like 10x better choice to be frank.

I just don't think he cared anymore. :heh:

izmosmolnar

2009-05-11, 12:51

Well whatever. I agree though the creators are indeed trying to present him as a really antipathic and totally uncool fellow, who's forte isn't exactly the logical behaviour. It still saddens me somehow, that his closest available friend would leave him cruelly behind in that state.

Haak

2009-05-11, 14:02

Episode 5 has managed to hit the headlines:
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/05/11/eden-of-the-east-penis-cutting-guro-anime/

Stardust Romance

2009-05-11, 15:50

Episode 5 has managed to hit the headlines:
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/05/11/eden-of-the-east-penis-cutting-guro-anime/

You know, you should give a little heads up about the NSFW content of the site :uhoh:

Heh, Steven Colbert.

DragoZERO

2009-05-11, 18:39

I picked up on that when I first watched it. It really made me cringe.

I think Saki knew her brother-in-law before her sister married him. Admiration probably turned into love. He seems like a real stand up guy too.

And five pages since my last post. I really can't keep up. lol.

WanderingKnight

2009-05-11, 19:47

Reading some posts here, I felt bit surprised by the fact that there are many people who feel sympathy/antipathy to a certain characters. Some of you treat characters as if someone they knew and even become judgmental to him/her although they probably have their roles in context of the theme development in the work. To some extent, this probably means a success of the work, though.

This.

I really never understood the need for basic "love" and "hate" attitudes towards fictional characters. Good characters, like Saki, aren't so simple as to be judged by one single emotion.

sikvod00

2009-05-11, 21:41

I can't speak for anyone else but myself, but I neither love nor hate any of the characters. Maybe if you gave specific examples of posts that gave you that perception, the person could explain if that's really how they felt.

feRfe

2009-05-11, 23:13

ah where is stephen?

Amber.Dawn

2009-05-12, 01:30

This.

I really never understood the need for basic "love" and "hate" attitudes towards fictional characters. Good characters, like Saki, aren't so simple as to be judged by one single emotion.

Hmm, you can say "overall". For example, I hate how my friend keeps poking me >_<, but overall, I like to hang out with him. The good outweights the bad, and we still need to see more of the characters to understand them more.

golthin

2009-05-12, 03:15

DragoZERO

2009-05-12, 07:11

I felt so bad for Oosugi. He is pissed because Saki has been leading him to believe that she is interested. I hope he is not the next target of Diana. He has a certain guilt too, he should have confessed to her.
I don't think Saki has been leading him, at all. They are already friends so her saying yes to lunch is no big deal. But yeah, its his fault for not confessing.

Jan-Poo

2009-05-12, 07:32

Strange, I didn't know Japan used to be that "prude" or "puritan". I even thought they used to go out to eat with (male) people like bosses and supervisors on fridays and the weekends.

Well I don't know if puritan is the right word ^^; But I remember I once saw an interview with a japanese who tried to explain their different approach to "sexual morality". In our western culture there is this concept of "sin", in Japan there isn't such a thing but there's still the idea that sex is something dirty and shameful. They do not fear an omniscient God, but they do fear society's judgment on their behavior. Of course I'm talking about the basic culture, neither we nor them are still attached to such rules. It's interesting how sometimes some girls in anime anachronistically think that just for letting a man see them naked they lose any chance of getting married.

izmosmolnar

2009-05-12, 08:06

Well I don't know if puritan is the right word ^^; But I remember I once saw an interview with a japanese who tried to explain their different approach to "sexual morality". In our western culture there is this concept of "sin", in Japan there isn't such a thing but there's still the idea that sex is something dirty and shameful. They do not fear an omniscient God, but they do fear society's judgment on their behavior. Of course I'm talking about the basic culture, neither we nor them are still attached to such rules. It's interesting how sometimes some girls in anime anachronistically think that just for letting a man see them naked they lose any chance of getting married.
[Well not the exact word I was looking for, but quite similar Puritan (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/puritan) (= a person who follows strict moral or religious principles; a person excessively concerned about propriety and decorum). ]

Well I honestly don't know, I wouldn't have imagined they are so uptight over such minor details like eating together with a male. I mean, for me it doesn't makes sense to prejudge someone's sexuality, just because two guys sitting at the same table. By that logic, all the female "friends" dining together in the animeworld could/should be labelled as a lesbian, but strangely no one even looks at them with weird looks in the shows I've seen so far. Probably that's why I also assumed, there's nothing extraordinary if two guys do the same.

Obviously for a foreigner it isn't easy to understand their general behaviour, principles and moral values, since it's a vastly different culture, and maybe even a whole life wouldn't be sufficient enough to fully understand their general mindsets.
But as several people here already said, we shouldn't judge characters solely based on our own moral values.

Haak

2009-05-12, 08:54

You know, you should give a little heads up about the NSFW content of the site :uhoh:

Heh, Steven Colbert.

Just so you know, the only reason I know of that site is because Kaoru Chujo showed me it. I was actually debating with myself on whether I should make a warning. :heh:

Dop

2009-05-12, 09:00

During the eating scene I couldn't help thinking that Diana likes her steaks like she likes her men - sliced up and bleeding!

After the idea a few episodes ago that Akira had rounded up the NEETs to put them at ground zero, it was better to learn that he'd had them shipped off to Dubai. I guess where this fits in with the Grand Plan is that by learning a trade in Dubai they could come back to Japan and help rebuild after the missile attacks, thus going from wastrels to useful members of society and making the world a better place, etc.

I fear for Oosugi.

Haak

2009-05-12, 10:47

Oh yeah, I was planning on asking. The NEET Akira talked to said, "I don't know what you were planning by sending us to Dubai, but atleast I was able to return to society because of that."

What does that phrase mean? I've hear that in another anime. I have a clue as to what it means but I want to make sure.

BetoJR

2009-05-12, 10:50

I'd think it means exactly what it says, since NEET's are perceived as being outside of society, not being employed, educated or trained.

Haak

2009-05-12, 10:57

Just wanted to make sure. I knew that NEETS didn't hve a a good image in Japan, but this is the first time I've seen it being used so harsly. I mean, being percieved as 'outside of society'? Yeesh.

BetoJR

2009-05-12, 11:04

Well, thinking clearly, a person past the age of 16, who's neither in some kinda school or working doesn't really participate in much of society's dealings, now does he/she/it? I mean, only as a burden to the parents or for the government, so I guess that's why some people tend to consider such people harshly...

Haak

2009-05-12, 11:37

I know some are NEETS because of backward attitudes, but you can't stereotype all of them. Alot are NEETS because they were just unlucky or that it's not their fault. I've always made it a rule of thumb not to judge anyone. (I know you're just playing devils advocate here. I just wanted to share my perspective)

With this global recession there's going to be a lot more of them so I guess in a sense, this anime came out at just the right time.

BetoJR

2009-05-12, 11:46

I know you're just playing devils advocate here. I just wanted to share my perspective
Exactly the right response I was expecting. And I agree with you, on this. :D
But there are some people who tend to regard NEETs in a very unsavory light, even so.

Jan-Poo

2009-05-12, 16:33

They are probably victim of a stereotype. There might be a lot of people that fall under the definition of NEET considering purely the ones that do not have a job and aren't under a formation course. And that big number is used on newspapers to scare the public.
Then they apply the stereotypical NEET (a male guy on his thirties or late twenties, who doesn't want to work, who doesn't like society and prefer to spend his time watching anime and reading manga) to the whole population. Even if probably those that really are that way are just a half of the whole amount.

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-13, 11:46

Cal-Reflector

2009-05-13, 11:51

Tale

2009-05-13, 13:39

The show is attracting a bigger and bigger audience, it appears. TV ratings for this episode put it in 12th spot for the week among all anime, and by far the highest of the late-night anime, at 4.6% of the audience. It was 4.1% for the previous week, which was up from only 3% or so (a respectable showing even then) the week before. It was over 4% for ep1, but dropped in the next couple of weeks and has only now recovered to this high level. Source: 2channel ratings thread (http://hideyoshi.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/asaloon/1242019879/).
I told you that it's quite unpredictable...judging form story-telling, character development, and his view to societies, Kamiyama seems to have learned/adapted quite a lot of things from materials outside of anime, so, I'm curious of how far he will be able to go especially in gaining many more audiences out side of usual anime fans.

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-13, 20:53

Wonder what did it? The kiss or Chop-chop lady?I'm not sure of the dynamics, but it seems to me that people will decide to watch this week's show based on reaction (theirs and others') to last week's show. They wouldn't know about either of the things you mention without already having started to watch.

Maybe people who liked the more mystery-oriented ep4 tuned in to ep5, upping its ratings, but were bored by the romance and will not tune in next week. Or maybe people are just realizing how well made the show is and are turning to it regardless of which aspect of the plot is being emphasized.

However, if they watched the first few minutes and decided to watch the rest, it would have to be on the basis of chop-chop, since kiss-kiss didn't come until near the end.

~BC~

2009-05-13, 21:20

Not to mention the previews available on the blog and special website. I'm sure those play their own part in getting people to tune in.

mrclastro

2009-05-13, 21:23

Not to mention the previews available on the blog and special website. I'm sure those play their own part in getting people to tune in.

I've been hooked on the show since the day one, but the fact that it is only 11 episodes long makes me wonder how successful it will be at tying up all the loose ends without rushing it.

WanderingKnight

2009-05-13, 22:09

There's also a movie after the series ends its run.

Kaoru Chujo

2009-05-13, 22:32

There's also a movie after the series ends its run.Yes. My worry is not that they will go too slowly -- I think they are moving forward at a nice clip. I am more worried that they might intentionally not give the TV series a satisfying conclusion, forcing us to wait for the movie in the fall/winter. I hope they can find a good spot to end the series and still have another ending left for the film.

DragoZERO

2009-05-14, 07:14

Wonder what did it? The kiss or Chop-chop lady?
Technically it she is a slice-slice lady, lol. *cringe*

Haak

2009-05-14, 08:56

Yes. My worry is not that they will go too slowly -- I think they are moving forward at a nice clip. I am more worried that they might intentionally not give the TV series a satisfying conclusion, forcing us to wait for the movie in the fall/winter. I hope they can find a good spot to end the series and still have another ending left for the film.

I'm wondering if they made the episodes for the film rather tan the other way round.

libba

2009-05-26, 14:43

O.o
Am I the only one who doesn't particularly like Saki much?
Here's a girl who in just 5 days (in their real time) has stayed out all night with a stranger, lied to her sister, asked her friends to lie on her behalf, has a thing for her bro-in-law and strings one of her mates along for ages.
There's nothing about her that appeals to me (yet), she's too passive for most part, although I will give her kudos for asking Akira out for tea, since that takes guts, lol.
To simply say 'she's sweet and cute', just earns a scoff from me, I'm afraid. :)

I can't help but think this episode terribly bittersweet, it'll probably sting for all the "nice guys" out there, since Akira falls into that stereotypical category of the:

"Dark, handsome guy, with a mysterious air, a potentially dark and dangerous past, who's just really laid back but has this air of 'coolness' about him and seems like he'd be fun just to hang out."
He's the 'bad boy' who isn't necessarily good for you, but sure does makes things exciting and can sweep you off your feet.

My heart broke for Osugi, it well and truly did.

(I skipped a lot of the quote.)
I'm with you - at first Saki seemed to be one of those cute and ditzy heroines who turn out to be both very girly and very brave, like Orihime from Bleach. But eventually she became more and more boring, just an ordinary girl who isn't particularly smart or sincere, and the thing about her secret love kind of threw me off course a bit.

Though I disagree about Akira, he seems to be one of the "nice guys" to me, too, he just got involved in this game. The typical dark & dangerous hero has a superior air, a larger-than-life attitude.