View Full Version : Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei OVA - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll
Klashikari
2009-06-17, 03:49
Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei, OVA 4.
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Skullchukka
2009-06-17, 04:17
Again, I have a promise to a friend to watch the 4th episode together, and since I lack the ability to understand Japanese that well, I couldn't watch it yet. So I'd like to ask;
Does Bernkastel make her appearance in this episode? I just want a yes / no answer.
Again, I have a promise to a friend to watch the 4th episode together, and since I lack the ability to understand Japanese that well, I couldn't watch it yet. So I'd like to ask;
Does Bernkastel make her appearance in this episode? I just want a yes / no answer.
Technically yes, as that's what Rika names herself (even if they cut the naming scene out of episode 3).
synaesthetic
2009-06-18, 18:00
Mightily resisting the temptation to watch the raw as I won't understand a thing.
Is it a leak or something? I didn't think Ep. 4 would be out until 06/24.
Skullchukka
2009-06-18, 18:17
Yes, all the Rei episodes so far have been "leaked" 10~ days earlier.
Yes, Rika basically says she's no longer Bernkastel but Furude Rika.
Well that ends Saikoroshi, which means next time is Day Break!~
Ca12nag3
2009-06-19, 06:55
Daybreak i fear will be as the first one seems to be. A bit squashed up episode with no real story to tell.
With 2/3/4 we had the best of Rei i guess.
The 2nd episode was good, but the 3rd episode did rush the story a lot. Then again it is an OVA.
SealedTime
2009-06-24, 04:16
They rushed it but hey, it was good.
zetsumei
2009-06-24, 23:35
Who exactly is Bernkastel? Never played the game so I have no clue ):
I was definitely confused when Rika thought to herself, "I have to stop being the witch and have to return to being Rika". Certainly had no clue where the "witch" thing come from or how it was related to Rika...
Thanks in advance.
Lots of non-stop dialogues O_O; but it was fun to watch. Learned of a lot of stuff about Rika that I never knew before. The ideology at the end was interesting.
Here's a translation (http://rs500.rapidshare.com/files/248245765/higurashi4.ass) of episode 4. Just give this file the same name as the raw and place them in the same directory. I'd also suggest opening it and setting the font size from 20 to 30.
Who exactly is Bernkastel? Never played the game so I have no clue ):
I was definitely confused when Rika thought to herself, "I have to stop being the witch and have to return to being Rika". Certainly had no clue where the "witch" thing come from or how it was related to Rika...
Thanks in advance.
Bernkastel is the accumulation of memories from all the Rikas that have died over the past century that have become self-aware, as she says at the start of Minagoroshi-hen. Presumably Bernkastel was created when the amount of Rika's memories that Hanyuu deposited in the dimension with the fragments reached a critical mass. The scenario for a death of Rika's mind described by Bernkastel is probably what would happen if that accumulation of memories became too great to be housed in a human being.
What presumably happens when "Rika" arrives in a new world is that a copy of Bernkastel's memories replaces the existing Rika's memories (Rika can't recall anything from before she was playing her friends in Minagoroshi-hen or from before she was hit with a ball in Saikoroshi-hen). We can't be sure that she retains all of Bernkastel's memories, since in Saikoroshi-hen Hanyuu explains to Rika that the worlds appear as fragments in the realm of the gods and how they traveled between worlds by joining these fragments, which Bernkastel must have already known since she can manipulate them (but Hanyuu could be reiterating something Rika knew). Also, Bernkastel is aware of what happened in Minagoroshi-hen at the start of Matsuribayashi-hen, but the Rika in the world of Matsuribayashi-hen lacks that information (but that may be simply be an anomaly due to Hanyuu's powers failing).
However, the fact that Rika is aware that a version of herself exists in a higher dimension, that she says she isn't Rika when she's speaking to Rena in Tsumihoboroshi-hen (Bernkastel feels that way to an extent) and that she gives herself the name Bernkastel when inhabiting Rika's body in Saikoroshi-hen to distinguish herself from the original Rika indicates that the Rikas of the various worlds possess at least some of Bernkastel's memories. Conversely, in Minagoroshi-hen Bernkastel says that she only has the memories that Rika obtained from the various worlds, that she was born in the human world and refers to herself as Rika at one point. Based on that, as well as all the things she says in the tea parties in Umineko which make it clear she was born from the events in Higurashi, we can assume that Bernkastel views herself as an being that's a continuation of Rika rather than a completely separate entity, which supports a close connection between them.
When Rika dies, Hanyuu sends the memories from that world to join the accumulation of memories in that higher dimension and thus become part of Bernkastel. This would explain why Bernkastel retains the name that "Rika" came up with in Saikoroshi-hen and why the Rika in the world at the end of Saikoroshi-hen says that the version of her in the higher dimension no longer matters, since her memories won't be joining it when she dies.
So in conclusion, a copy of Bernkastel's memories and personality replace Rika's mind and then the experiences of that copy merge with Bernkastel when the Rika of that world dies. Bernkastel neither created Rika nor is she really a separate entity (since 'Rika' is simply Bernkastel's mind in a human body) until they diverge at the end of Saikoroshi-hen.
Skullchukka
2009-06-25, 04:30
Thank you for the translation Eryops! Me and my friend are far too excited to wait for a fansub, so the translation was like a godsent for us.
*starts worshipping*
izmosmolnar
2009-06-25, 04:47
Man that was mighty confusing.
So who's Hanyuu's daughter? Is it Bernkastel? I mean she basically resembled her far too much, but Rika can't be, since as far as I understand, she couldn't exist back then. Or was that also some kinda misleading thing Hanyuu just cooked up? I mean if her Daughter killed her, how could she exist now as she does? I realize she's someone far more supernatural than I can comprehend, but if she's "dead", then how can she materialize herself physically? If she can exist especially physically, then she is not dead, or is that not correct? Or death among her species is somehow different than my conception of death? That part totally hurt my brain to figure out :eyespin: .
I was kinda hoping the solution would be somehow more cleverer than "oh it was just a dream, I wanted you to see" (provided Hanyuu was telling the true). It sure was a talkative episode though, but I still liked it nevertheless.
I was also surprised they finally named Bern here in the anime. However that also makes me puzzled, because if we can believe "Rika" (?) she says, she not gonna occupy herself with "witch-stuff", but she clearly does it in Umineko! So what's up with that? Is the Bern in Umineko somehow a Bern before the events of Higurashi Rei episode 4, or did she changed her mind later? Or is there some different alternative answer?
EDIT: Or is that possible that until that point Rika and Bernkastel were "together", but after Rika decided she won't care about Witch-stuff anymore, then Bernkastel due to that truly become an Ethereal-like entity (a witch maybe in the strictest sense?), and since Bern was banished from Rika, she started wandering between the Kakeras, and eventually emerged in Umineko? I'm also baffled about that too.
But then what's up with the scene, where she interfered with loli 34? That Bernkastel there is clearly more adult than all the Bernkastels we've seen (hell, she even acquired the large breasts she so wanted in the DVD extra :heh: ). Does that mean that, that Bern there in that specific scene is someone who's already past all the events in both Umineko and both Higurashi? Or is it possible that it was something like:
Rika banished Bern in the hospital scene now => Bern wanders Kakeras => Interferes with Loli 34 => Reaches Umineko's world. In that case why is she more younger in Umineko than Kai's epilogue scene?
Waaaaa my brain...
Anyway, it was a great ark, especially liked the first episode of that ark, and it makes me somehow sad that the next ark is going to be a sillier, not so serious thing (as far as I've heard, I'm not sure about that though).
Klashikari
2009-06-25, 05:37
Ouka is not Bernkastel at all. It is indeed Hanyuu's daughter, Furude Ouka, the ancestor of the Furude bloodline and the wielder of the Onigari no Ryuuou.
Hanyuu died as a "human", but became a god after what Ouka did (the onigafuchi revering Oyashiro), but the method had to be twisted to gain what hanyuu hoped for... which ultimately didn't go so well.
As for Bernkastel, they mixed up: the one in Higurashi is "Frederica Bernkastel", which doesn't mean it IS Umineko Bernkastel. Theories usually span over the fact there are "3" Rika: The original Furude Rika, Frederica Bernkastel, the one who can travel between the kakera with the memories transfer.
And finally Bernkastel, the one "observing" in the Kakera World (third layer)... it is actually that "narrator" in any kakera world that says to "observe Furude Rika".
izmosmolnar
2009-06-25, 06:17
Uhm. I apologize for confusing them, but she seemed mighty similar (see pic (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/bscap0000rcy.jpg/)), and we don't see her introduced by name.
So basically Rika is Hanyuu's own great-great-great (x insert appropriate number) -daughter if I understand it correctly, right? The first female daughter among the consecutive 8 of the Furude daughters (while normally Rika is the 8th) is related to Ouka somehow somewhere in the past, and Ouka is Hanyuu's daughter.
But sorry for bringing that up again, but then why does Hanyuu has her horn, if she's an ordinary human. She is horned (not horny lol :heh: ) throughout the flashback in the desert (see pic (http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/5324/bscap0001wvs.jpg)).
I've always thought she is basically a different species altogether, but if she's a distant relative to even Rika, that proves she can even mix up with humans then. How come she has horns? (obligatory: I'd do her horn, if you know what I mean)
That stuff with the various Bernkastels are mighty confusing :/ . What exactly happens in the hospital-scene here then? And why is loli34's Bernkastel so different in appearance (I mean age-wise) than Umineko Bern? I can't make heads and tails out of that even if I try to think that there are 3 "Rikas"... Did I guessed it correctly in one of the previous examples or it's something completely else?
Klashikari
2009-06-25, 06:26
Uhm. I apologize for confusing them, but she seemed mighty similar (see pic (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/bscap0000rcy.jpg/)), and we don't see her introduced by name.
So basically Rika is Hanyuu's own great-great-great (x insert appropriate number) -daughter if I understand it correctly, right? The first female daughter among the consecutive 8 of the Furude daughters (while normally Rika is the 8th) is related to Ouka somehow somewhere in the past, and Ouka is Hanyuu's daughter.
There is no way to tell if they were lazy or so, but in Matsuri (PS2), Ouka looked exactly like Rika as well (except that Onigari no Ryuuou became a plain katana :heh:).
Yes, Hanyuu is basically the matriarch and ancestor of the Furude. That said, it seems that the generations didn't always turn into several consecutive girls, hence why Hanyuu had to wait thousand years for that.
But sorry for bringing that up again, but then why does Hanyuu has her horn, if she's an ordinary human. She is horned (not horny lol :heh: ) throughout the flashback in the desert (see pic (http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/5324/bscap0001wvs.jpg)).
I've always thought she is basically a different species altogether, but if she's a distant relative to even Rika, that proves she can even mix up with humans then. How come she has horns? (obligatory: I'd do her horn, if you know what I mean)No actually, Hanyuu really had the horns (malformations or supernatural stuff, hard to say) and she was considered as a demon god as result. Contemplating how humans were absolutely sinful, she went in distraught and decided to take all the sins.
This is also the reason why several veterans like Rias and me noted Hanyuu's chipped horn: this detail is by no mean "small", since it was Ouka who did that.
That stuff with the various Bernkastels are mighty confusing :/ . What exactly happens in the hospital-scene here then? I can't make heads and tails out of that even if I try to think that there are 3 "Rikas"... Did I guessed it correctly in one of the previous examples or it's something completely else?No, I cannot consider that as correct.
Frederica is basically the "collective consciousness" of all Rika who died and got their memories "stacked" after all the tragedies and tortures. However, at some point, Rika "became" Frederica after turning into a "being" totally different from the Human, Furude Rika: that the concept of death is not "unique" but multiple etc.
Gazing at the Kakera, Frederica became jaded and cynical which also "disconnected" her worries regarding one's death at some point, since "she has a reset button" even though she doesn't have much hope to begin with. This is where she considered herself like a "witch", as she is by no mean human, and "jack in" Furude Rika when she is transported in a new Kakera.
The one who says "I will stop this witch stuff" IS Frederica, or "all Rika" who wished not to abandon to their fate and fight on for the successful kakera. After what Rena said, Frederica realized that she almost tried to act like a god, abusing her powers and bothering "comparing" results while it isn't her job to do so: her job is to actually live to her fullest as human.
Therefore, since she is finally back to this world, she can stop considering herself like a god or a witch, thus this comment.
*cough* I should really make a long series of Higurashi Rei articles, but so little time for all of this, while Umineko is impendingly approaching... Dunno if it WILL worth the time.
I was kinda hoping the solution would be somehow more cleverer than "oh it was just a dream, I wanted you to see" (provided Hanyuu was telling the true). It sure was a talkative episode though, but I still liked it nevertheless.
What makes you think it was a dream? Rika definitely doesn't consider it a dream, and as she says it's probably Hanyuu's way of telling her to live as a human and to stop thinking about alternate worlds. Plus, she wants to assuage Rika's guilt about her murdering her mother. And we see Bern creating that world by saving Miyoko's parents at the end of Kai, so it seems unlikely to be simply a dream.
As for Bernkastel, they mixed up: the one in Higurashi is "Frederica Bernkastel", which doesn't mean it IS Umineko Bernkastel. Theories usually span over the fact there are "3" Rika: The original Furude Rika, Frederica Bernkastel, the one who can travel between the kakera with the memories transfer.
And finally Bernkastel, the one "observing" in the Kakera World (third layer)... it is actually that "narrator" in any kakera world that says to "observe Furude Rika".
I'd say that there are two Rikas/Berns after Rika decides to stop moving between worlds, as Bern diverges at that point, however what makes you think that the Bern from Umineko is different? I haven't seen any evidence pointing to that, so I think it's simpler to assume that they're the same being.
izmosmolnar
2009-06-25, 09:14
That's why I put it there that "Provided Hanyuu was telling the true" ( =I mistyped truth ;P )
I personally tend to believe she might have the ability and the reasons for arranging it so, but I was hoping for something more... twisted or complicated I think.
It's certainly probable that the ideal world Rika just came back from, might have been a direct consequence of Bern interfering with loli 34 (I even theorized it so 2 episodes ago), but I'm personally more inclined to think Hanyuu wouldn't lie about that (even if Rika had to kill her own mother for coming back and Hanyuu wants to protect her conscience).
Well who knows, I guess it wasn't clearly stated in the visual novel neither right?
zetsumei
2009-06-25, 10:04
Thanks Eryops, hmm, did Ni and Kai explains some of this is the anime...? If they did I completely don't recall anything. Given that it been a really long time since I watched both series and don't remember much of anything anymore...if they did explained it, I'd definitely have to go back and marathon both Ni and Kai.
izmosmolnar
2009-06-25, 12:42
By the way the new desktop pet is out with the new episode.
This time it's just Satoko alone.
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3585/55649964.jpg
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=74XBFO25
I don't know whether she interacts with the others though. She didn't notice my other Higu desktop pets yet. (Albeit I'm hoping Rika might throw a chair at her)
Nothing is translated in that, but it's quite easy to figure out how the options are at least. I reckon probably Hanyuu will be the next one.
Ps: If it counts as a warez or something, just delete the link.
It's certainly probable that the ideal world Rika just came back from, might have been a direct consequence of Bern interfering with loli 34 (I even theorized it so 2 episodes ago), but I'm personally more inclined to think Hanyuu wouldn't lie about that (even if Rika had to kill her own mother for coming back and Hanyuu wants to protect her conscience).
Hanyuu would have been lying either way. Don't forget she told Rika that her head had been run over by the truck and she had died. If you assume that it was all a dream, then she would have been lying to Rika at that point.
Thanks Eryops, hmm, did Ni and Kai explains some of this is the anime...? If they did I completely don't recall anything. Given that it been a really long time since I watched both series and don't remember much of anything anymore...if they did explained it, I'd definitely have to go back and marathon both Ni and Kai.
Are you referring to the information in this post (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2470604#post2470604)? I mostly got it from the VNs.
I don't know whether she interacts with the others though. She didn't notice my other Higu desktop pets yet. (Albeit I'm hoping Rika might throw a chair at her)
The desktop pets don't interact with one another.
izmosmolnar
2009-06-25, 13:08
Well you are probably right as they don't seem to be interested in each other :/ . I still haven't seen the one where Rena takes a Rika home though.
Klashikari
2009-06-25, 17:33
I'd say that there are two Rikas/Berns after Rika decides to stop moving between worlds, as Bern diverges at that point, however what makes you think that the Bern from Umineko is different? I haven't seen any evidence pointing to that, so I think it's simpler to assume that they're the same being.
It seems we are talking of the same thing except I added 1 extra Rika.
The one I see "stopping" moving between world is the one I call Frederica Bernkastel.
Furude Rika is the original Rika who is present in each world before being "overwritten" by Frederica.
Then we have the last one who emerged from all of this (and who is also narrating the Kakera scenes in the VN), who is Bernkastel, that entity which is the on present in Umineko, unless proved otherwise.
Simply put, the "higher bernkastel" left in the Kakera world "central" point is the third layer.
Archon_Wing
2009-06-25, 17:47
Sniffle* So this is the end of the main story line? What a great way to end it. Some crazy philosophical stuff that doesn't end up being too pretentious. It ran very close to "moral of the day" but it did manage to avoid that.
Episode 3 left with one of the most difficult decisions in the series. Is it really ok to be selfish and go back to the world you wanted for at the cost of others? As Rika makes her decison, she begins to realize that Hanyuu was always there to help make her decisons. But this one, she must take responsibility, and take the risk of commuting a sin. Indeed, since Rika has spent the series as the innocent one, this totally flips the series over, as this entire arc already has.
But it is the hard choices that make the person and we are all the sum of our experiences, even if we don't want to be. It's just not a good idea to be constantly pursuing what-ifs constantly. Only with this realization, only can they truly move on with their lives and this is truly the end of Higurashi.
I was kinda worried about the dream thing, but it does seem ambiguous and I can't tell if Hanyuu is protecting Rika from that guilt. Interestingly, we never see Rika killing her mother. That may forever remain a mystery. And ultimately, it no longer matters.
10/10 for adding more insight to an already fascinating story.
Mercurius
2009-06-27, 00:02
Question about the VN version of the chapter:
Did they ever show Rika struggling with the decision she had to make between the two worlds? Or are we to take Rena's explanations to be the similar to the thought process that Rika went through (meaning she decided to stop being a witch and kill her mother, dream or otherwise).
And one more regarding Matsuribayashi-hen
Wasn't Saikoroshi-hen supposed to be a continuation of Matsuribayahshi-hen? So why did everyone say that Satoshi was still far away, when they found him underneath the clinic? Unless the anime got that one wrong as well.
If I remember correctly, in the final episode(s) of kai, Shion covered Satoko's ears and explained that Satoshi was still alive, but that Satoko wouldn't be able to handle the news due to Satoshi still being comatose.
In short, I think they are saying Satoshi is still "away from home" in order to protect Satoko's state of mind.
Liddo-kun
2009-06-27, 10:07
Voted 10/10 without a second thought.
Hanyu made one last fix to Rika's life. :)
Things can finally end now.
After following Higurashi for more than 2 years, I'm glad it all ends this way.
Though it's a little sad, the next episode will be the last for Higurashi. Time to move on to Umineko I guess.... - but I will never forget the wonderful times I had following the story of Rika and her friends!
*listening to Superscription of data http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7034/msnkaospinkusagi20.gif (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/msnkaospinkusagi20.gif/)
typhonsentra
2009-06-27, 10:13
Have they ever given a reason why they removed the portion of the story about the twins switching? It kinda made the run about their "Sin" not really make sense.
Have they ever given a reason why they removed the portion of the story about the twins switching? It kinda made the run about their "Sin" not really make sense.
Rei was directed by Toshifumi Kawase. Higurashi no Naku koro Ni (Kai) was directed by Chikai Kon. It's not Kawase's fault that Kon took out the part about the switch.
There's something I didn't quite understand during the entire Saikoroshi-hen arc:
Why is Hanyuu "invisible" again? By Matsuribayashi-.hen everyone could see and interact with her, but during the OVA it seems that she can only be seen by Rika.
lovelysan
2009-06-27, 17:23
Honestly, I think the twin-switch explanation was just cut for time and to simplify things a bit. Hell, even in the games, isn't the switch only mentioned in a "tip" at the end of their arc? (I'm not completely sure about this though, mind you.)
bigemperor
2009-06-27, 18:11
There's something I didn't quite understand during the entire Saikoroshi-hen arc:
Why is Hanyuu "invisible" again? By Matsuribayashi-.hen everyone could see and interact with her, but during the OVA it seems that she can only be seen by Rika.
I have the same question =(
becky-chan
2009-06-27, 20:42
Well you are probably right as they don't seem to be interested in each other :/ . I still haven't seen the one where Rena takes a Rika home though.
me neither,I'm dissapointed kinda because I wanted to see that happen.
anyway,when will there be subs of this episode?It looks really good..
HanyuuChan
2009-06-28, 01:52
This episode was great I cried at the end.
(the desk pets are funny I laughed when Mion and Shion started to kick each other and when Satoko started to look at the broccoli and the cauli flower.)
izmosmolnar
2009-06-28, 03:17
anyway,when will there be subs of this episode?It looks really good..
There are softsubs linked here in that thread earlier ;) . They work with the HQ raw, and both the crappy quality leaked one.Here's a translation (http://rs500.rapidshare.com/files/248245765/higurashi4.ass) of episode 4. Just give this file the same name as the raw and place them in the same directory. I'd also suggest opening it and setting the font size from 20 to 30.
Ca12nag3
2009-06-28, 04:00
Good episode tho i feel its rushed. For instance when Rena talked about her mom not divorcing. Rika never mentioned the divorce but she starts talking about it anyways. So that looks to me like leaving gaps and rushing the story
Honestly, I think the twin-switch explanation was just cut for time and to simplify things a bit. Hell, even in the games, isn't the switch only mentioned in a "tip" at the end of their arc? (I'm not completely sure about this though, mind you.)
The switch is implied in the anime. When Shion is torturing Satoko, their roles revert to back to their original ones. Mion speaks like Shion and calls Shion "onee-sama", while Shion speaks like Mion despite the fact that there's nobody there that might overhear them.
In the VN, the switch is mostly explained by Mion's diary, so the fact they cut that part out is understandable. If they simply revealed it at the end of Meakashi-hen, it would have seemed too sudden.
There's something I didn't quite understand during the entire Saikoroshi-hen arc:
Why is Hanyuu "invisible" again? By Matsuribayashi-.hen everyone could see and interact with her, but during the OVA it seems that she can only be seen by Rika.
Hanyuu was corporeal when she and Rika spoke to Maebara Ichirou but incorporeal again afterwards. There's no reason to think she can't switch between the two states at will.
SnowSong
2009-06-28, 19:22
Sniff... I thought that was rather beautiful, especially the parts about killing Rika's mother. Well, day break will be fun.
Sniff... I thought that was rather beautiful, especially the parts about killing Rika's mother. Well, day break will be fun.
Agreed, especially since it looks like we get to see Oyashiro-mode Rena once again.
Guardian Enzo
2009-06-28, 21:54
Well, that was interesting and the moral dilemma compellingly presented. But boy, was it talky. I felt like I was attending a lecture.
FlareKnight
2009-06-29, 02:11
Well this was a pretty heavy episode overall. The first part talking with Hanyuu and then the second continued the philisophical discussion. If it really was a dream Hanyuu created to teach Rika a lesson or whether Hanyuu was trying to protect Rika from that truth may not be known. Hanyuu had to have lied about something during this arc so up to people to pick and choose. At any rate Rika learned lessons from that experience and that's what is important. Now is the time to live and to treat that life as extremely precious. The safety net is off so to speak.
Think it was good to take the world they ended up in. After all it is the one they fought so desperately for. That other one kind of lines up with Rika's old thinking. Just waiting for a world to just drop into your lap that doesn't have any problems. Instead she took the one that was paid for in pain and struggles.
I'm happy for Rika and wish her the best.
risingstar3110
2009-06-29, 10:31
Thank to Eryops, i finally understand Bernkastel's identity (really thank there, mate ^^ )
To say the truth, the anime's directoring of the whole Higurashi's series suck, but i can't stop giving it the top score, because the anime+ this sub-forum + bit of novels and manga is a real masterpiece.
I means without the anime, a lots of ppl won't be able to get through the novel. To me, the anime is like a basic tree diagram where you watched through to get the main frame, then get the details (of parts you interest in) through the novel (have to thank kj1980 and Sushi-Y and LostBlue and everyone else for translating the tips =D ).
The ep itself was great (once again i have to say the anime directoring was really suck, so many long conversation, so many rush). Every time i thought no satisfying ending can be pulled off, Higurashi showed me that i was damn wrong (S1, Kai, Rei, all 3 of them...).
Finallly: I'm happy really. Because i decided to check out Higurashi; and because next time if someone asks me if i ever read a master piece novel, i will tell them that no Harry Porter or Twilight craps (my apologises to die-hard fans of these 2, but that's the truth) can be even compared to Higurashi :D
kk2extreme
2009-06-29, 10:34
i really wanna see more hanyuu in MILF form, i have seen enough of her loli form :naughty:
risingstar3110
2009-06-29, 10:43
i really wanna see more hanyuu in MILF form, i have seen enough of her loli form :naughty:
I prefer her loli form but maybe a "desktop pet" of loli Hanyuu transforming into adult version would be nice :D
PS: there are only 4 of them out atm, right? (with Shion+Mion =1)
Edit: talk about destop pet...... don't worry Satoko, you can boil either broccoli or cauliflower and eat, it just the same!! xD
Mint Kashiro
2009-06-30, 06:45
And one more regarding Matsuribayashi-hen
Wasn't Saikoroshi-hen supposed to be a continuation of Matsuribayahshi-hen? So why did everyone say that Satoshi was still far away, when they found him underneath the clinic? Unless the anime got that one wrong as well.
I think it may be a mix of the change of directors along with the characters coping in the face of the public. The coverup story for Satoshi is that he is still far away, so even though they know he is in the clinic being treated, they may be going along with that story until he 'comes back'. That, or the director just completely forgot it.
I loved it when Rena made the speech about choices and the two worlds as it reminded me of this TIP here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=612186&postcount=76) which I enjoyed reading.
So the weapon Ouka was holding was the Onigari no Ryuou? Fitting appearance, I guess.
10/10; great ending to the main storyline. This is it, huh. Sigh.
Beautiful, just beautiful. I just love these kind of introspective, "talky" as some people might put it, episodes. I think the philosophical dilemma was well portrayed, and the conclusion they arrived to left a good after taste. I didn't feel a sense of rushing, since the point of the episode was an epilogue to Higurashi's theme rather than to its story or its character, and the former was not rushed at all.
There's something I didn't quite understand during the entire Saikoroshi-hen arc:
Why is Hanyuu "invisible" again? By Matsuribayashi-.hen everyone could see and interact with her, but during the OVA it seems that she can only be seen by Rika.
Here's my take on it: Let's assume for a moment that Rika really did die in the car accident that sent her to the next world. In order for her to get back to the one she left, there would have to be a body waiting for her. Hanyuu used the rest of her spiritual power to either:
a. rebuild rika's body and change people's memories or
b. changed the timeline itself so that rika would only receive a coma from the accident, instead of losing her head.
The resulting use of Hanyuu's power deprived her of her corporeal existance in the world where Takano was defeated, hence why she appears in ghost form. I don't think any of the friends acknowledged her existance either.
The resulting use of Hanyuu's power deprived her of her corporeal existance in the world where Takano was defeated, hence why she appears in ghost form. I don't think any of the friends acknowledged her existance either.
That doesn't explain why Hanyuu appears in a corporeal form a year before the start of the story (to Ichirou Maebara) but is invariably incorporeal after that point in time (except for Matsuribayashi-hen).
I think that since Hanyuu became corporeal in an attempt to help Rika, she simply no longer saw a need to remain in that form after Rika survived past June 1983.
risingstar3110
2009-07-08, 13:03
That doesn't explain why Hanyuu appears in a corporeal form a year before the start of the story (to Ichirou Maebara) but is invariably incorporeal after that point in time (except for Matsuribayashi-hen).
I think that since Hanyuu became corporeal in an attempt to help Rika, she simply no longer saw a need to remain in that form after Rika survived past June 1983.Maybe both Rika and Hanyuu couldn't accustom with Hanyuu's corporeal body since they have lived with Hanyuu's "ghost" form for the past hundreds years. So Hanyuu decided to return to her normal form and clear everyone's memories about her.
Their living cost would be lower that way as well, (and Rika can be back to her sadist self -> punish Hanyuu whenever she want) :heh:
Kaioshin Sama
2009-07-08, 16:02
One of the best anime episodes I've seen in a good long while. Now I finally understand exactly why this OVA was made following the conclusion to Kai.
Maybe both Rika and Hanyuu couldn't accustom with Hanyuu's corporeal body since they have lived with Hanyuu's "ghost" form for the past hundreds years. So Hanyuu decided to return to her normal form and clear everyone's memories about her.
Their living cost would be lower that way as well, (and Rika can be back to her sadist self -> punish Hanyuu whenever she want) :heh:
There's no evidence that Hanyuu can affect people's memories or that her corporeal presence caused problems to those around her. And all the worlds were different, so none of the other characters have existed for 100 years.
qwertyuiopz
2009-07-08, 21:07
now thats ended........i dont understand why rena went nuts when asked about the dam at ep 2?
Klashikari
2009-07-08, 21:13
She didn't go nuts. As much as Rika thought it was Irie in episode 2, it is the same for Rena: Rika wasn't totally "adapted" to the world (as Rika is traveling between Kakera via a memory transfer), so her memories are predominant and makes her see that Rena would turn insane/touchy about that subject.
In reality, this Rena has no reason to go erratic over that matter.
Conversively, this is also the reason why she saw Yamoto despite it was Irie in episode 4: her memories has to "adapt" to the world she is in.
I loved it when Rena made the speech about choices and the two worlds as it reminded me of this TIP here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=612186&postcount=76) which I enjoyed reading.
So the weapon Ouka was holding was the Onigari no Ryuou? Fitting appearance, I guess.
10/10; great ending to the main storyline. This is it, huh. Sigh.
The insight Rena and the others presented was quite good, even for someone as jaded and experienced as Rika was, for certain things aren't apparent for a viewer at times. :)
As for Hanyuu being corporeal, even a being like her can be affected by Schroedinger's Cat as well, so it wouldn't be a surprise if the world that Rika has the accident to be divergent from that in Matsuribayashi-hen.
Yami Sonozaki
2009-07-20, 13:43
Just saw it subbed today and I must say it was a great ending.
A "talky" episode was needed in order to explain most stuff, but I'm a little sad because more details about Bernkastel weren't given, except that monologue RIka had "I should stop living as the witch Bernkastel". More details on that would have been awesome really.
Also, I'm pretty much sure that world wasn't a dream. I'm sure Hanyuu said that so Rika would stop thinking about it.
Overall a nice and touching episode.
Can't believe it's the end. *sniff*
Just saw it subbed today and I must say it was a great ending.
A "talky" episode was needed in order to explain most stuff, but I'm a little sad because more details about Bernkastel weren't given, except that monologue RIka had "I should stop living as the witch Bernkastel". More details on that would have been awesome really.
Also, I'm pretty much sure that world wasn't a dream. I'm sure Hanyuu said that so Rika would stop thinking about it.
Overall a nice and touching episode.
Can't believe it's the end. *sniff*
It can be both a dream and a real world, so again it's not necessarily mutually exclusive.
I saw this image on the episode 3 thread, but thought I'd ask here.
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/220/pets.png
Is there something special I'm supposed to do to get Rena to do the Rika-hug animation? I've had the Rena pet on my desktop since OVA 1 came out, and she hasn't done it once.
Is there something special I'm supposed to do to get Rena to do the Rika-hug animation? I've had the Rena pet on my desktop since OVA 1 came out, and she hasn't done it once.
They do these randomly. Rena has done it on my computer a number of times.
So I'm really just so unlucky I haven't seen it once in more than 3 months? That's depressing.
Maho Momo
2009-07-23, 10:54
Do you have to have both of them up at the same time? O.o
Yami Sonozaki
2009-07-23, 13:47
Hmm, I've had all of them at the same time on, and Rena never did that hug thing o_O.
Weird.
Well , lol first 15 mins blablabla and Rika finally return back in her true home . And after 15min blablabla lol . Anyway , she seems to be happy now .
Next oav seems funny with Rena .
Well , i hoped more horror .
maximilianjenus
2009-07-25, 09:14
and your hopes will be shattered.
For more horror (well mystery at least) try Umineko...because Higurashi is just about over. Humor (maybe fanservice) episode to come to a close I think, yes.
Liddo-kun
2009-07-28, 08:25
Also, I'm pretty much sure that world wasn't a dream. I'm sure Hanyuu said that so Rika would stop thinking about it.
Overall a nice and touching episode.
Can't believe it's the end. *sniff*
The world that Rika went into wasn't a dream?
Is that official info from somewhere?
Anyway, it's a little sad that everything ended now...
At least we know that Rika lives happily ever after with her friends, and she finally gets to grow up. :D
Yami Sonozaki
2009-07-28, 08:34
The world that Rika went into wasn't a dream?
Is that official info from somewhere?
Anyway, it's a little sad that everything ended now...
At least we know that Rika lives happily ever after with her friends, and she finally gets to grow up. :D
Well there isn't any official info on it, but you can tell it was real from Hanyuu's attitude when answering Rika's question about that world. It's clear she is hiding something. And probably she killed her mother too, in order to get back. Well at least that's what I'm thinking.
Dante of the Inferno
2009-08-02, 23:55
Well there isn't any official info on it, but you can tell it was real from Hanyuu's attitude when answering Rika's question about that world. It's clear she is hiding something. And probably she killed her mother too, in order to get back. Well at least that's what I'm thinking.
I'd sooner suspect that Hanyuu made her decide resolutely to kill her mother, but then had her come back. After all, the point of this was to teach Rika a lesson, not further traumatize her collective consciousness.
Yami Sonozaki
2009-08-03, 14:06
I'd sooner suspect that Hanyuu made her decide resolutely to kill her mother, but then had her come back. After all, the point of this was to teach Rika a lesson, not further traumatize her collective consciousness.
In the end I think it's what you want to believe.
I still believe she killed her mom, and Hanyuu is hiding it.
I'd sooner suspect that Hanyuu made her decide resolutely to kill her mother, but then had her come back. After all, the point of this was to teach Rika a lesson, not further traumatize her collective consciousness.
Rika loses her memories from before the time of her death, so she doesn't recall killing her mother. However she does remembers the sensation of blood flowing over her hands in the VN, so she did kill her.
Miko Miko
2009-08-05, 19:02
Nice episode!
Can't believe the next one is the end. :upset::upset::upset:
Yami Sonozaki
2009-08-06, 08:23
This one was the end xd.
The next one is just a funny one, like the first ep of Rei.
Dante of the Inferno
2009-08-06, 11:59
Miko Miko means the that it's likely the final official episode of the Higurashi franchise.
Although that does make me a little sad (no Yogoishi-hen :upset:), I think we can all agree the crew deserve some R&R.
Although that does make me a little sad (no Yogoishi-hen :upset:), I think we can all agree the crew deserve some R&R.
Most of them are on Umineko.
Over time, all of them could be involved for all we know. Aside from crossover CDs I mean.
Dante of the Inferno
2009-08-07, 02:25
I don't know if this was ever raised, but I couldn't help noticing that Reina never once fawned over something cute in Perfect World. Now, there very well may not have been anything cute left in Hinamizawa (that, and there wasn't a dump).
However, a thought:
Was the cuteness obsession simply a character trait that Reina created for Rena? This includes her trademark white dress and beret. I know that screen time was very limited, but it struck me as strange to see so much of her character altered, which made me think that much of what was seen during seasons 1 and 2 was her "altered" ego.
CatQueen
2009-08-08, 01:51
I don't know if this was ever raised, but I couldn't help noticing that Reina never once fawned over something cute in Perfect World. Now, there very well may not have been anything cute left in Hinamizawa (that, and there wasn't a dump).
However, a thought:
Was the cuteness obsession simply a character trait that Reina created for Rena? This includes her trademark white dress and beret. I know that screen time was very limited, but it struck me as strange to see so much of her character altered, which made me think that much of what was seen during seasons 1 and 2 was her "altered" ego.
You make a really interesting point here, although I'm not sure about the dress. From the TIPS, I remember reading that "Hau" is like a magical word that can make Rena happy. But because her parents never divorced, Reina didn't change her name, and Rina never entered Rena's life and gave her the need for a place to get away(the dump) where she could find "treasure". Reina didn't have to become "Rena" and had no real need for cute things to bring her happiness.
Episode 5 discussion thread...not yet?
maximilianjenus
2009-08-08, 18:18
Normally we wait until the Episode actually airs.
Well when Reina is Rena, she can sure go into cute overload...as well as psyco level moments.
Normally we wait until the Episode actually airs.
When I made that comment, ep5 had already been aired on b-c.
Cheese Ninja
2009-08-19, 13:28
I watched the first Higurashi series over a year ago. I just now marathoned Kai and Rei over 2 days. I still have some questions.
I feel bad that Rika had to destroy the perfect world to get back to the one she and the others fought so hard to achieve, but it was the right choice. It taught her a lot of lessons she wouldn't have learned otherwise. Mainly, to deal with her parent's deaths, to value her life and this world more, and live the rest of her life as a normal human.
But now the story of the True End is over in anime form, and there were things that bothered me both about this OVA and what happens after. Why did Hanyuu switch back to a non-corporeal body in this arc? Was she lying when she said the truck had run over Rika, or did they manage to change that bit of recent past to a glancing blow?
How many years will it take before Satoshi recovers? I guess this answer is different depending on whether I use the VN or the anime's True End. I thought I saw somewhere that Miyoko escapes the clinic, what happens after? Does Keiichi end up with one of the girls, or get a harem end?
Edit: more questions: How did Akasaka get to be so badass? How long could Rika originally go back in time when she died? Was it over five years? After all, she did know about all the deaths when she talked with Akasaka. Where can I find out more about the Soul Brothers?
Dante of the Inferno
2009-08-19, 14:44
Spoiler time:
This is where I differ with some people. In Perfect World, Hanyuu says that the truck literally took off Rika's face, which we see is very much intact. Mind you, a lot could have happened in the month she was in a coma, but if Hanyuu is correct, it wouldn't matter when she brought Rika back. This further adds to my suspicion that Hanyuu merely designed a scenario where she had to choose the life she wanted, as opposed to "well what a sickeningly large coincidence of a world."
Hanyuu existed as a goddess for the purpose of watching over Hinamizawa and the Furude line (i.e. Rika). Now that both tasks were complete thanks to defeating Miyo, she has no other reason for maintaining her corporeal form.
In regards to Keiichi and company, Rei 5 should help clear the air, a least a little.
In the anime, Himatsubushi-hen was ridiculously short. The manga (and probably to a further extent in the VN) showed that Akasaka is quite intelligent ("Mahjong Knight") and is truly worthy of being part of the NPA. There was never any mention of Akasaka being as "strong" as in the anime, but with 5 years of altered timeline backing him up (like having his wife and child), he could have easily honed his skills by then.
Bernkastel serves as a sort of hard drive for Rika's experiences. To the younger forms of Rika, the experiences seem to come as flashes (visions?) to her. I liken this back to Quantum Leap, in that she can only go world-hopping in the time-span of her own lifetime. Also like Quantum Leap, Rika encounters "the swiss-cheese effect" where initially she can only remember pieces of her overall experiences (case in point, her scene talking with Akasaka in Himatsubushi-hen: "I didn't want to know these things, but against my will I end up seeing them many...many times over").
EDIT: Dante beat me to it, and his answers are better.
But now the story of the True End is over in anime form, and there were things that bothered me both about this OVA and what happens after. Why did Hanyuu switch back to a non-corporeal body in this arc? Was she lying when she said the truck had run over Rika, or did they manage to change that bit of recent past to a glancing blow?
Hanyuu was indeed lying when she said the truck had killed Rika, it merely put her in a coma. During this coma, Hanyuu showed Rika the perfect world, but lied so Rika would believe she had actually died, forcing her to make the decisions she need to make.
Edit: more questions: How did Akasaka get to be so badass? How long could Rika originally go back in time when she died? Was it over five years? After all, she did know about all the deaths when she talked with Akasaka. Where can I find out more about the Soul Brothers?
In both Minagorishi-hen and Matsuryubashi-hen, Akasaka heeds Rika's advice and returns to Tokyo just in time to save Yuki. In the arcs where she did die though, Akasaka took up martial arts to help get through her passing. In Matsuryubashi-hen, he is able to retain those skills and is therefore badass.
Not sure about how far Rika could go back, but I'm guessing back to the year the dam construction was frozen, so when Akasaka first came to Hinamizawa in other words.
I'm pretty sure the Soul Brothers was just a joke for that episode and isn't mentioned anywhere else, but I could be wrong.
I was under the impression that Rika use to relive her entire life at the start, then it got shorter and shorter as Hanyuu's power wained.
And Soul Brothers....considering how everyone reacts to the Detective, that Tomake is usually out of town...yeah...outside of the joke arcs...not happening.
rogerpepitone
2009-08-19, 21:32
I thought "Perfect World" was supposed to be Minagoroshi-hen; "Sinless World" is Saikoroshi-hen.
I thought "Perfect World" was supposed to be Minagoroshi-hen; "Sinless World" is Saikoroshi-hen.
Takano ends up killing everyone in Minagorishi-hen, Matsuryubashi-hen is what you are thinking of.
About the Soul Brothers, they were in the sound novel.
http://i32.tinypic.com/15dpbhk.jpg
They appear during the story of the unlockable mini-games and also in Batsukoishi-hen which is part of Rei. That arc was replaced by Hajisarashi-hen (pool arc) for the anime though.
Cheese Ninja
2009-08-19, 22:42
Thank you all for answering my questions.
Spoiler time:
This is where I differ with some people. In Perfect World, Hanyuu says that the truck literally took off Rika's face, which we see is very much intact. Mind you, a lot could have happened in the month she was in a coma, but if Hanyuu is correct, it wouldn't matter when she brought Rika back. This further adds to my suspicion that Hanyuu merely designed a scenario where she had to choose the life she wanted, as opposed to "well what a sickeningly large coincidence of a world."
You and Cavuy are agreed on this. Maybe I should be rethinking that this was ever an actual world, and not merely a dream Hanyuu created.
Hanyuu existed as a goddess for the purpose of watching over Hinamizawa and the Furude line (i.e. Rika). Now that both tasks were complete thanks to defeating Miyo, she has no other reason for maintaining her corporeal form.
But wasn't she having a lot of fun playing with Keiichi and co instead of just watching? Could she have really run out of juice like someone else mentioned?
In regards to Keiichi and company, Rei 5 should help clear the air, a least a little.
As to Rei 5, that's going to be another parallel world, isn't it? So that wouldn't really tell me what happens post-Matsuribayashi-hen. I suppose some of my questions might not have answers. Is there still post-Matsuribayashi-hen story coming out?
In the anime, Himatsubushi-hen was ridiculously short. The manga (and probably to a further extent in the VN) showed that Akasaka is quite intelligent ("Mahjong Knight") and is truly worthy of being part of the NPA. There was never any mention of Akasaka being as "strong" as in the anime, but with 5 years of altered timeline backing him up (like having his wife and child), he could have easily honed his skills by then.
Cavuy and you answered this one well, thank you.
Bernkastel serves as a sort of hard drive for Rika's experiences. To the younger forms of Rika, the experiences seem to come as flashes (visions?) to her. I liken this back to Quantum Leap, in that she can only go world-hopping in the time-span of her own lifetime. Also like Quantum Leap, Rika encounters "the swiss-cheese effect" where initially she can only remember pieces of her overall experiences (case in point, her scene talking with Akasaka in Himatsubushi-hen: "I didn't want to know these things, but against my will I end up seeing them many...many times over").
That Rika's greater consciousness had a chance to manifest briefly prior to her resurrections, but not significantly influence most of the worlds makes a lot more sense to me than my original thought that she was able to go back that far in time when she first started dying.
It seems the Soul Brothers only other appearance is as a slapsticky story similar to Rei 1, that was packaged with the Meakashi-hen VN. Both wikipedia and Orophin explained this to me.
sora1412
2009-08-20, 03:52
About the Soul Brothers, they were in the sound novel.
http://i32.tinypic.com/15dpbhk.jpg
They appear during the story of the unlockable mini-games and also in Batsukoishi-hen which is part of Rei. That arc was replaced by Hajisarashi-hen (pool arc) for the anime though.
Interestingly, Soul Brothers are heavily mentioned in Drama CD. If you have a copy of c73 special drama CD, you will understand that Soul brothers are mostly for comical relief:heh:
Originally Posted by Dante of the Inferno
Spoiler for Explanation 3:
In regards to Keiichi and company, Rei 5 should help clear the air, a least a little.
As to Rei 5, that's going to be another parallel world, isn't it? So that wouldn't really tell me what happens post-Matsuribayashi-hen. I suppose some of my questions might not have answers. Is there still post-Matsuribayashi-hen story coming out?
Episode 5 is going to be a fun episode, 'Daybreak Chapter'. Based on Higurashi Daybreak PC game.
maximilianjenus
2009-08-20, 09:40
I think those posts should be moved to the Q&A, I guess they will be.
Is it ever confirmed that Rika was in a coma and never died, to me it seems that by slightly altering kakera they make the probabilities of getting different kakera to improve, like, itf they finally manage to beat miyo in one kakera, now they can easily travel to more kakera in which miyoko has been defeated; same for the sinless world, by having bernkastel create many worlds in which miyoko dies in the bus accident she finally created one in which she survived, plus now hanyu can travle to those. Or following rei04, by having one kakera in which rika is hit by a truck multiple kakera in which she gets hit differently are created 8in ones she dies, in one she does not).
I also say this because it seems that bernkastel's main source of fun is creating new kakera, this being implied by the last tip in higurashi as well as creating ange in umineko.
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