Claymore Chapter 93

[Shiek927]

Haven't'cha learned anything yet shieky? You don't need to see with your eyes, if you can see with your mind's eye. Galatea for example.

Hmm, didn't think of that. Galatea always seemed to be an exception when it comes to that sort of thing because of how good her sensing is.

So Abyssals have that power too?

[Awakened]

Riful is not going to die. Duff will die but not Riful.

Riful dieing is to obvious it's not going to happen.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Will he die squatting? :heh:

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Hmm, didn't think of that. Galatea always seemed to be an exception when it comes to that sort of thing because of how good her sensing is.

So Abyssals have that power too?

Oh yeah, and all Claymores have that power. When Rafaela snuck up on Clare and Jean, Jean said something like, "Impossible, I didn't even sense her."

[MalakTawus]

......well to be honest i think the only claymores that can fight without using their eyes are Galatea and Claire (probably) since the quality of their senses (well,yoki reading....) is far above normal standards......

[Fenrir_valindri]

If your referring to using Yoki-sensing as their primary form of sensory-perception, then Galatea is about the only person who has done so, everyone else still primarily relies on their eye-sight, those talented at Yoki-sensing are just a lot better with it then others.

It wouldn't surprise me if Raciella was capable of that though, considering the depth of Yoki-control that was required for Soul-link (AKA, Perfect Yoki control) basically guarantees that Raphaela's skill with Yoki is on par with the best.

[dweller of the deep]

......well to be honest i think the only claymores that can fight without using their eyes are Galatea and Claire (probably) since the quality of their senses (well,yoki reading....) is far above normal standards......

and Renée, probably, she is the new Eye after all.

[camilla]

I agree that Clare's gonna be the one to make Raciella abandon her catatonic state. More precisely, something she'll consider as a threat to Clare. And the first thing that comes to mind is Helen and Deneve rushing into the scene with Helen screaming and maybe grabbing her. :heh: I know, I know, I should stop worrying about these two since it will probably be the nearby battle involving Alicia and Riful, instead.

At first, I thought that Raciella kept growing bigger and bigger while maybe it's the exact contrary. :confused: After the initial burst and growth, Clare, being in a privileged position, clearly sees Raciella as tall as a mountain, with bladelike wings and each face with two horns. Soon after that, we're given Deneve's point of view and we see the wings are shorter and look almost featherlike, the faces ( even if they're hard to distinguish ) have no more horns ( or are hard to detect at that distance ), the two entities have no more space between their backs and Raciella's height looks shorter. What do Riful and Dauf see? The wings are shorter than the ones that Deneve perceived, Raciella has only one hornless face, the bodies are united and her height is shorter than the one shown in Deneve's panel. It is also true that Riful and Dauf are the farthest ones. Can we deduce that Raciella is reverting to a shorter form with a single body and face, i.e. her awakening was far from being complete?

Don't forget that according to the databooks, if you're willing to believe them, Alicia excels in sensing, too. Edit: And Beth should have the same ability. Obviously, Alicia can't be taken as an example. Well, who cares about her since she's so doomed? :D

Oh, and Helen and Deneve deserve a fan club together. ;)

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Helen's and Deneve's Most Excellent Adventure fan club. :heh:

[camilla]

Helen's and Deneve's Most Memorable Adventures? :D

[MisterJB]

Helen and Deneve's gang of troublemakers?

[Arkham]

Helen and Deneve's .... :eyebrow: .... a forget it :sad:

[Cyclone]

If the amount of yoki needed to heal someone is directly proportional to her yoki, Yuma is very awesome. I mean, more than Galaeta :D

Just goes to show - quality takes time.

[MisterJB]

......well to be honest i think the only claymores that can fight without using their eyes are Galatea and Claire (probably) since the quality of their senses (well,yoki reading....) is far above normal standards......

Tabitha too. She even closes her eyes to do her trick.

[Ryus]

Tabitha too. She even closes her eyes to do her trick.

True, Tabitha did close her eyes when sensing for where Agatha's weakness is.

@everyone I got bored and changed my avatar... do you all like it? does it fit me better or worse than the last one? does anyone else use it?

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/LordRyus/JeansDeath.jpg Was going to change avatar too... but changed my mind

[[thousandmaster]]

:topicoff:

Ryus - The old one is much better.

[Ryus]

;2499377']
Ryus - The old one is much better.

I think your right... urgh!

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

Poll: Can Duaf stand up straight, instead of squatting all the time?

1) Yes
2) No

no...

beacuse his brain is in his feet...it would be too heavy to stand straight:heh:

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

You didn't see how upset a lot of people were when that happened? I swore that I wouldn't act that way once Riful gets killed, which will happen pretty soon probably.

I was a bit upset considering he was just killed like a street dog...very unsuitable for the First Abyssal One...and I hope if ever Riful gets killed atleast she her death should be suitable for her status... :rolleyes:

[MalakTawus]

Tabitha too. She even closes her eyes to do her trick.

You are joking, right?
Tabitha is a good sensor,but she has to concentrate a lot to use her skill,she can't fight without using her eyes......i really doubt that even Alicia and Rene are able to FIGHT while blind.
The only one we are sure that can do it is Galatea and the only other one with that ability is Claire (if she continued to train this ability......almost certain).
Claire may not have an huge range in yoki reading like Galatea,Rene or Tabitha,but the quality of her reading eredited from Teresa is unbelievable.
Teresa's (and Claire's) ability isn't a simple yoki reading,she can foresee the enemy attacks(Irene explained Teresa's reading in vol.4).

@Ryus:I think the old one is A LOT better too....

[Ryuken]

Well, I do agree that Tabi is upcoming in the sensing and eye department but she still has a long way to go to catch up with the likes of Galatea. But she would eventually get there. She is very promising.:)

[MalakTawus]

Well, I do agree that Tabi is upcoming in the sensing and eye department but she still has a long way to go to catch up with the likes of Galatea. But she would eventually get there. She is very promising.:)

I belive she hasn't enough talent to catch up with Galatea.......and btw,she probably won't live for long.....

[revan5]

I belive she hasn't enough talent to catch up with Galatea.......and btw,she probably won't live for long.....

Poor Tabitha, already marked for death by my archenemy Malak (from KOTOR). Well I think, given her record of solid support of Miria and the fact that Miria's team only sustained one loss (Queenie, #20), that she'll outlive your predictions. Let's face it, Miria's protection comes with its advantages!

By the way, could you define long? 5 chapters? 10 chapters? 15 chapters? What is your prediction for Tabitha's death?

[MisterJB]

If Yagi intends to kill Tabitha, then he has to develop her characther first.

Because, sincerely, if Tabitha died next chapter, who would give a damn?

She is extremely loyal to Miria and she is the Eye of the Ghosts.

Well, loyal to Miria we already have the other Ghosts (except Clare) and as a Eye, we have the infinitely superior Galatea.
Who would miss Tabitha? I know I wouldn't, especially now that she has this new haircut.

Yagi-san, do you recall an angelical woman called Flora?
And do you remember what happened to her?
Rigth, bad trade. Bad trade.

Seriously. Yagi, personality. Give Tabitha one.

[revan5]

If Yagi intends to kill Tabitha, then he has to develop her characther first.

Because, sincerely, if Tabitha died next chapter, who would give a damn?

She is extremely loyal to Miria and she is the Eye of the Ghosts.

Well, loyal to Miria we already have the other Ghosts (except Clare) and as a Eye, we have the infinitely superior Galatea.
Who would miss Tabitha? I know I wouldn't, especially now that she has this new haircut.

Yagi-san, do you recall an angelical woman called Flora?
And do you remember what happened to her?
Right, bad trade. Bad trade.

Seriously. Yagi, personality. Give Tabitha one.

You've just demonstrated the classic problem of having too many characters. Bleach is afflicted with this problem. Unlike Bleach, Claymore cuts down the cast of characters to more manageable levels, which is good, particularly considering it is a monthly manga.

Tabitha hasn't been developed yet beyond ultra-loyalty and being an "Eye" because there simply is not enough pages to do so yet without weighing down the story and slowing its pace beyond reason. Yagi will probably start adding more of a personality to her in the next 15 chapters sometime.

And for once, due to her new do, we may actually not mistake her for Cynthia. Hooray!

[MisterJB]

I just hope that her personality won't appear due to Miria's death.

Cynthia: Two pigtails.
Tabitha: One ponytail.

What's so difficult about it? I liked her hair, reminded me of Ophelia.

[Shiek927]

If Yagi intends to kill Tabitha, then he has to develop her characther first.

Because, sincerely, if Tabitha died next chapter, who would give a damn?

She is extremely loyal to Miria and she is the Eye of the Ghosts.

Well, loyal to Miria we already have the other Ghosts (except Clare) and as a Eye, we have the infinitely superior Galatea.
Who would miss Tabitha? I know I wouldn't, especially now that she has this new haircut.

Yagi-san, do you recall an angelical woman called Flora?
And do you remember what happened to her?
Rigth, bad trade. Bad trade.

Seriously. Yagi, personality. Give Tabitha one.

For crying out loud JB, Flora didn't have an overwhelming personality either :rolleyes:

The thing about popular characters is, even if they've had little screentime, fans will make them out as all these amazing things, even if in the manga, they never actually did much to discern these things.

Angelic? Was it because of her hair? I never got the impression she was this nice sweet girl like Cynthia, like others do. In fact, she was tough and reminded me of Miria a little, a team leader which she was. She put Claire in her place and challenged her to a duel.

Really, I don't know where these soft flowery(like that one picture :heh:) ideas come from. Not that I don't like Flora, but people make her out as a bigger deal and character then she actually was.

It's not that I don't like Flora; I also believe she was killed too quickly and too abruptly, but I don't understand why people see her as this sweet angelic person. She has a pretty face, but that doesn't mean she was any angel.

[MisterJB]

What are you talking about? Flora was totally an angel.

She even warned that she was going to start chopping heads if they didn't STFU. In this manga, people don't usually warn. They just do.

[Shiek927]

What are you talking about? Flora was totally an angel.

She even warned that she was going to start chopping heads if they didn't STFU. In this manga, people don't usually warn. They just do.

Aaaand that makes her an "angel"?

Telling people to shut up and do what she told is angelic? :rolleyes:

Guess that makes Ophelia a real saint. She asked Raki and Claire which one she should kill first to see the other one cry. Other psychopaths usually don't ask, they just do :heh::heh::heh:

[MisterJB]

Irony, dude. Irony

Most psychopaths ask that. It's part of the fun.

Of course, a professional one tries to force the victims to choose who should he kill first.

[Shiek927]

Irony, dude. Irony

Most psychopaths ask that. It's part of the fun.

Of course, a professional one tries to force the victims to choose who should he kill first.

:rolleyes: We're getting off the subject.

The point I'm trying to make is, people commonly make Flora into this sweet beautiful angel when she's really not like that. When I think of her, the first person that honestly comes to mind is Miria; maybe because she was team leader, maybe because she was logical and tried explaining to Claire why the duel was important, who knows. She has a pretty face, but she's no Cynthia. She's just as cold and stoic as any other Claymore.

I can understand if you like the character, and see her as a nice person because she has a pretty face and hair and a "flowery" name, but she never did anything or said anything that gave me that impression.

[MisterJB]

It's the hair. She has the best Claymore hair.

The body helps too.

[Shiek927]

It's the hair. She has the best Claymore hair.

The body helps too.

:heh::heh::heh::heh:

Yes, her hair was very very cool. In a manga where it's often only the hairstyle that seperates the characters(I'd love to see a game where, somebody posts pics of characters without the hair, and you gotta guess which ones which), her's is purposely beautiful.

God, just looking at it, I wanna twirl my finger around them, her hair must be fun to play with :heh:

Her body though....not to crazy for it. Her face in my opinion is too baby-ish, or at least too baby-ish for a girl with a body like her's. Even Dietrich's face isn't so bad because it looks like it matches her body more. Flora looks like a princess who was kidnapped and given a uniform and a sword :heh:

[MalakTawus]

Poor Tabitha, already marked for death by my archenemy Malak (from KOTOR). Well I think, given her record of solid support of Miria and the fact that Miria's team only sustained one loss (Queenie, #20), that she'll outlive your predictions. Let's face it, Miria's protection comes with its advantages!

By the way, could you define long? 5 chapters? 10 chapters? 15 chapters? What is your prediction for Tabitha's death?

Well, i think she'll die in the next big battle of the ghosts (if she goes now to Claire i predict that she'll be killed....maybe by Alicia),but as Mister JB said, Yagi should give her a real personality before killing her (how cruel....).
To tell the truth i see a possibility for her to live longer,but in my mind this means that Helen and Deneve.......i don't want to think about it.......

[FragrantFlora]

:heh::heh::heh::heh:

Yes, her hair was very very cool. In a manga where it's often only the hairstyle that seperates the characters(I'd love to see a game where, somebody posts pics of characters without the hair, and you gotta guess which ones which), her's is purposely beautiful.

God, just looking at it, I wanna twirl my finger around them, her hair must be fun to play with :heh:

Her body though....not to crazy for it. Her face in my opinion is too baby-ish, or at least too baby-ish for a girl with a body like her's. Even Dietrich's face isn't so bad because it looks like it matches her body more. Flora looks like a princess who was kidnapped and given a uniform and a sword :heh:

Hmm...is that really a compliment? Well I personally like Flora. It's a shame that she had a nice design but was killed quite soon. One thing I'll never forgive Yagi for :frustrated:

Just kidding :heh:

[Gooral]

After rereading the chapter one thing gripped my attention - Riful didn't know anything about ZACS. Sure, she mainly resides in the west but I can't imagine she wouldn't hear about half of the south being wiped out especially if we take into consideration that Isley must have tried to escape them for a couple of months (one year maximum). After such a long time it's hard to believe that Riful would be left in the dark. It looked to me that she was always well informed and knew about everything. Seriously, I doubt she would ignore what Isley was doing and wouldn't care that she hadn't heard anything about his actions.

[MisterJB]

I think that Riful knew what was happpening in the South however, we know that she considered Isley to be the most violent od the three AOs. So, she probrably tought that Isley and Priscilla were the ones eating everyone in the South.

[Gooral]

It's reasonable explanation however I doubt such baseless assumption would satisfy Riful. Whole cities being devoured were not in Isley style. Assuming that it was all Priscilla's doing would be stupid too, somehow Isley lived with her in the North for a long time (i.e. he didn't run out of food). Why would she think that now they would have bigger appetite? Besides it was a given that some people would try to flee and there was a good chance that during this time some of them would encounter Riful. What's more, claymores should know sth about it too and Riful was hunting them.

BTW, in chapter 86th we have such dialog:

Helen: Ha... half? Just what exactly happened?
Renee: The particular reason has not been made clear. I also just know the current state.

I wonder if Renee Dee was lying then, I can't believe she didn't know that it was all ZACS and Isley's doing (mainly Isley's) considering how well informed she was. Even more so since in 87th chapter she said: Impossible...how could they have returned so quickly? This no doubt means that yet another city has been wiped out.

[camilla]

If I'm not mistaken, someone else had speculated that Riful didn't know about the ZACS and the extermination in the South because she had been busy trying to awaken Raciella.


To tell the truth i see a possibility for her to live longer,but in my mind this means that Helen and Deneve.......i don't want to think about it.......
Then don't, Malak. You know what they say: if you think negative, you will only attract negative. Or something along the line. Anyway, I'm the least suitable person to give you this advice considering that because of these two I'm in a constant state of worry. :p I'd be more concerned if Deneve had abandoned Helen with Cynthia and Yuma and decided to reach Clare all by herself. As long as they're together, they should be safe -- not out of trouble though.:heh: Moreover, have faith in Clare: she won't let anything happen to them.

[Gooral]

If I'm not mistaken, someone else had speculated that Riful didn't know about the ZACS and the extermination in the South because she had been busy trying to awaken Raciella. (...)
How was she busy? She had to find someone skilled in reading and manipulating youki and had 7 years for that ! Unless Luciella and Rafaela wondered for a couple of years or stayed in the same spot without anyone finding them she had tons of time to do that. Besides, as I've written earlier Isley must have been escaping ZACS for a couple of months, Riful had plenty of time to find out about them. Somehow she heard about Priscilla being defeated by Isley why wouldn't she know about sth bigger going on?

[FragrantFlora]

In my opinion, I don't think Riful knew about them at all. I think she even asked "What are these things?" if I'm not mistaken.

[Arturro]

How was she busy? She had to find someone skilled in reading and manipulating youki and had 7 years for that ! Unless Luciella and Rafaela wondered for a couple of years or stayed in the same spot without anyone finding them she had tons of time to do that. Besides, as I've written earlier Isley must have been escaping ZACS for a couple of months, Riful had plenty of time to find out about them. Somehow she heard about Priscilla being defeated by Isley why wouldn't she know about sth bigger going on?

There were more inconsistences... No one in Rabona or other cities were aware of destruction of the South. So or Organisation somehow created a blockade of information, which is not wery probable, cause lack of traders/travellers from South also should be noticed; or ZACS hunt for Isley was rather short, month or two. Considering that Raki was in Rabona, with Priscilla, just year ago (thanks to that visit Clare knows Raki is alive and looking for her - so no reason to Renee to survive any longer), and Isley said he send them when attacks started, it doesn't add up.

[Addiction_2_Claymore]

BTW, in chapter 86th we have such dialog:

Helen: Ha... half? Just what exactly happened?
Renee: The particular reason has not been made clear. I also just know the current state.

I wonder if Renee was lying then, I can't believe she didn't know that it was all ZACS and Isley's doing (mainly Isley's) considering how well informed she was. Even more so since in 87th chapter she said: Impossible...how could they have returned so quickly? This no doubt means that yet another city has been wiped out.


If I'm not wrong, wasn't it Dietrich and not Renee? I don't recall Helen ever running into Renee...

[MisterJB]

Somehow she heard about Priscilla being defeated by Isley why wouldn't she know about sth bigger going on?

there is a easy explanation for Riful knowing about Priscilla.

IMO, Isley had been spreading rumors around the Continent that he had defeated a powerful female AB and made her his woman. He did this to lure the others AOs into a false sense of security because if they found out that there was someone stronger than the AOs helping Isley, Riful and Luciela would have formed an alliance against the North. This way, they just tought that Isley was being overconfident and that he wouldn't dare to attack one of them since the remaining AO would just kill him after the figth.




I wonder if Renee Dee was lying then, I can't believe she didn't know that it was all ZACS and Isley's doing (mainly Isley's) considering how well informed she was. Even more so since in 87th chapter she said: Impossible...how could they have returned so quickly? This no doubt means that yet another city has been wiped out.


yes, she was just lying. It would be impossible for Dietrich to have detailed informations on the AFs and Isley's hunt and not knowying that they were the ones rampaging the South

[camilla]

How was she busy? She had to find someone skilled in reading and manipulating youki and had 7 years for that ! Unless Luciella and Rafaela wondered for a couple of years or stayed in the same spot without anyone finding them she had tons of time to do that. [ ... ]
I think it's definitely out of the question that Luciela and Raffaella had time to wander around once Raffa gave her sister the mortal hug. Riful must have found them that very day or soon after that and brought them home, so to speak. We know Riful's lair is pretty isolated ( she has the tendency of choosing isolated ones ) and besides, finding the right claymore able to read and perform youki manipulation must not have been easy for her. She even might have lost time trying to awaken them herself with Dauf's help. Then, after the war in the North, Galatea deserted and Renée, her successor, was still in training and Alicia was unstable.

[Gooral]

If I'm not wrong, wasn't it Dietrich and not Renee? I don't recall Helen ever running into Renee...
Of course, thanks for noticing :). Already fixed the mistake.

there is a easy explanation for Riful knowing about Priscilla.

IMO, Isley had been spreading rumors around the Continent that he had defeated a powerful female AB and made her his woman. He did this to lure the others AOs into a false sense of security because if they found out that there was someone stronger than the AOs helping Isley, Riful and Luciela would have formed an alliance against the North. This way, they just tought that Isley was being overconfident and that he wouldn't dare to attack one of them since the remaining AO would just kill him after the figth. (...)
But how did these rumors reach Riful? Humans obviously wouldn't know about it, if a letter was sent it would be too obvious so the only explanation I can come up with is that she encountered one of Isley's scouts and squeezed the "truth" from him.
I don't see though, why would Isley be afraid of Riful teaming up with Luciella. In fact if he acted then he could wipe organization without much effort before Riful would even talk with Luciella. Without the org in the picture even 2 Abyssals would be no match for him and Priscilla and I doubt they would try to attack them. The only problem would be whether Priscilla would listen to him, maybe he needed time to gain her trust.

yes, she was just lying. It would be impossible for Dietrich to have detailed informations on the AFs and Isley's hunt and not knowying that they were the ones rampaging the South
Yep, Dee's comment in 87th chapter makes it obvious.

I think it's definitely out of the question that Luciela and Raffaella had time to wander around once Raffa gave her sister the mortal hug. Riful must have found them that very day or soon after that and brought them home, so to speak. We know Riful's lair is pretty isolated ( she has the tendency of choosing isolated ones ) and besides, finding the right claymore able to read and perform youki manipulation must not have been easy for her. She even might have lost time trying to awaken them herself with Dauf's help. Then, after the war in the North, Galatea deserted and Renée, her successor, was still in training and Alicia was unstable.
I think so too, I was just covering all bases. In that case seven years is a lot of time, even if she couldn't find one very skilled claymore she should have been able to find some decent youki specialists and try to do it with them (3 or 4 claymores poking Raciella with their youki could achieve sth). Because it would be a gamble (if claymores skilled in reading youki would start disappearing one by one MiB would take countermeasures) maybe she preferred to wait for someone more skilled to pop out.
Hmm... I wonder if Riful was always near the place where Raciella was being kept? Since Raciella didn't emit any youki AFAIK, Riful didn't have to be cautious and could leave her alone or with Dauff for a long period of time. That way she could tend to other matters and by the way recruit claymores if she encountered any.

[camilla]

I think so too, I was just covering all bases. In that case seven years is a lot of time, even if she couldn't find one very skilled claymore she should have been able to find some decent youki specialists and try to do it with them (3 or 4 claymores poking Raciella with their youki could achieve sth). Because it would be a gamble (if claymores skilled in reading youki would start disappearing one by one MiB would take countermeasures) maybe she preferred to wait for someone more skilled to pop out.
Hmm... I wonder if Riful was always near the place where Raciella was being kept? Since Raciella didn't emit any youki AFAIK, Riful didn't have to be cautious and could leave her alone or with Dauff for a long period of time. That way she could tend to other matters and by the way recruit claymores if she encountered any.
Sure, seven years is a helluva lot of time yet believable, given the circumstances. Riful must have abandoned her ruined castle in order to find other claymores ( not that many though or else the Organization would have noticed ) specialized in that technique ( some of those expandable lower digits ) in the 7 years following the war in the North that might haven't survived their first encounter with her or might have but didn't succeed in the task and were killed. And we know that Raffaella's newly awakened consciousness said that only one ( Renée ) did succeed in being perceived by her and Clare was the second. So all things considered, Riful might have had her hands full and little or no time to keep up on the surrounding world.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

First off, I don't think there are any inconsistencies here. Just becaue everything isn't clear to someone, doesn't mean they should say it is inconsistent. First off, when Riful laid eyes upon Priscilla, her focus and goals shifted from trying to defeat Isley to trying to defeat Priscilla. Second, Awakened Beings are immortals, and while seven years may seem a long time to us, Riful used to spend her time sleeping and eating, before Isley started a war. Next, how did Riful know the about the false rumor of Isley defeating Priscilla? Yoma and/or Awakened Beings. There used to be a lot more Awakened Beings around, before the war in the north, and the org actively hunting them to make ZACS. Yoma? Well the org controls their population. So, it wouldn't be to unreasonable, to assume that the information has been stopped from reaching Riful. Also before, Riful and Dauf had Yoma working for them, this time we didn't see the new base with any yoma. And Why didn't Rabona know? Well there are 47 Districts in 4 different Area, and we don't know if people do too much traveling from District to District. We do know that there are tons of Yoma out in the forests and traveling can be dangerous.

[Shiek927]

First off, I don't think there are any inconsistencies here. Just becaue everything isn't clear to someone, doesn't mean they should say it is inconsistent. First off, when Riful laid eyes upon Priscilla, her focus and goals shifted from trying to defeat Isley to trying to defeat Priscilla. Second, Awakened Beings are immortals, and while seven years may seem a long time to us, Riful used to spend her time sleeping and eating, before Isley started a war. Next, how did Riful know the about the false rumor of Isley defeating Priscilla? Yoma and/or Awakened Beings. There used to be a lot more Awakened Beings around, before the war in the north, and the org actively hunting them to make ZACS. Yoma? Well the org controls their population. So, it wouldn't be to unreasonable, to assume that the information has been stopped from reaching Riful. Also before, Riful and Dauf had Yoma working for them, this time we didn't see the new base with any yoma. And Why didn't Rabona know? Well there are 47 Districts in 4 different Area, and we don't know if people do too much traveling from District to District. We do know that there are tons of Yoma out in the forests and traveling can be dangerous.

That's really the biggest problem I had believing the rumors(remember our BIG arguement in the Awakened Being thread MisterJB? :heh:), HOW did Riful get those rumors and why is it that we only hear from them from her? Somehow, she has surveilience, especially if all she did was eat and sleep, but we don't have details on how

I've gotten over the fact and accepted that Isley really did spread a covered up version of what happened rather then Riful making it all up too get people to her side, but I ask this one final time: WHY do we only hear these rumors from her, and WHY haven't we heard a SINGLE thing about these rumors about the Organization? or this "female awakened being" that Isley supposedly fought and defeated?

As unimaginable as it is, I can't believe they apparantely still don't know anything about Priscilla, but nothing is making me believe otherwise.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Why would the org know about Prissy? She's been on good behavior for seven years. I think the org doesn't have the technology to keep track of things. Ah well, it seems people want Riful to have a spy agency like the CIA. :heh:

[Shiek927]

Why would the org know about Prissy? She's been on good behavior for seven years. I think the org doesn't have the technology to keep track of things. Ah well, it seems people want Riful to have a spy agency like the CIA. :heh:

But see, that's the problem! How can Riful somehow get both versions, the fake one and the true one, yet the Organization doesn't know anything? About the rumors, the female AB, Isley's true plans during the war.....

I keep wracking my brains over and over and over again everytime I scream this question:

Why do we only hear this rumors from RIFUL?

Because if she really did not make them up and Isley did spread rumors around, surely you'd think we'd hear them from one other person. It doesn't help that this person is Riful and not the most trustworthy gal around.

No, Riful's the only one; who knows these things, about the female AB, about the rumors, about Isley's true motives....these things just seem like too much to miss, even for morons like the Organization.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

It's quite simple really. First off, not many yoma or Awakened Beings like talking to the org. Now Isley was a major manipulator that played people. Remember, he never really intended to serve as Priscilla General to find her mama and papa. Instead, he wanted to use Priscilla for his own gains, conquest. So how is he going to save face with his underlings? You think they are going to respect him, if he says that he got his ass kicked by Priscilla? Rigaldo was the only one who witnessed the fight that mattered. So if they come back to their base of awaken beings and let it seem (dunno if he lied) that he defeated Priscilla, then that will get all the men in his camp talking, and if they talk to other awaken beings, it can spread across the whole Island, especially since those were two of the most powerful ABs involved in this fight. Now Awakened Being might talk to Awakened Being, but it is less likely that they will share this information with the org.

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

But see, that's the problem! How can Riful somehow get both versions, the fake one and the true one, yet the Organization doesn't know anything? About the rumors, the female AB, Isley's true plans during the war.....

I keep wracking my brains over and over and over again everytime I scream this question:

Why do we only hear this rumors from RIFUL?

Because if she really did not make them up and Isley did spread rumors around, surely you'd think we'd hear them from one other person. It doesn't help that this person is Riful and not the most trustworthy gal around.

No, Riful's the only one; who knows these things, about the female AB, about the rumors, about Isley's true motives....these things just seem like too much to miss, even for morons like the Organization.

Maybe (I'm only guessing) remember when horde of AB's from Isley came to west and tell that when Isley was gathering army of AB's Duff ran away to Riful of the West...maybe that's how riful came to know about that female awakened being (from duff), because she didn't directly go to North but heard it from Duff who did'nt want to join Isleys group and came to Riful... :confused: I hope that make sense...:heh:

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Ah you maybe onto something, not the Duaf running away thing, but that the information probably leaked when Isley men were recruiting in the other areas.

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

Sorry my net got d/c as I was saying.....those AB's were saying to duff "unfortunately you rebelled and ran off with that country girl of the WEST"...maybe that was during the time when Isley was recruiting AB's...and even duff was saying he's surprised that Rigaldo joined them...since Duff knew that they have teamed up...he leaked up the info to Riful when he joined her...because before that AB's didn't group.

But the most surprising part is Luciella didn't recruited any AB's well she did said "I don't like herding up"...even she knew about Isleys plans...and since organization don't chit-chat with AO's or any AB's they were in dark about Isleys plans...

@sheiky: How can Riful somehow get both versions, the fake one and the true one...

she got the true one (she assumed it) by the way she was telling to clare you can guess she was assuming it.... and since she went there personally and check prissy (prolly read her youki and found it to be more than Isley)....thats why she was saying "Isley...you..." meaning Isley you tricked us all by spreading wrong rumour...lol sumthing like that

[Gangsta Spanksta]

that's a pretty good observation.

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

But one thing still ticks me...that is Rigaldo joined Isley before he met Pricilla....did Yagi sensei mucked up there or something....??? But one thing is certain Riful found out about pricilla when Isley was recruiting AB's because even Luceilla knew about that part

[MisterJB]

But one thing still ticks me...that is Rigaldo joined Isley before he met Pricilla....did Yagi sensei mucked up there or something....???

Rigardo never got along with Isley, not even when they were Claymores, so, Rigardo challenged Isley when they Awakened. The bet was that the loser would serve the winner.

Rigardo lost so he became Isley's rigth hand man.

[Shiek927]

Maybe (I'm only guessing) remember when horde of AB's from Isley came to west and tell that when Isley was gathering army of AB's Duff ran away to Riful of the West...maybe that's how riful came to know about that female awakened being (from duff), because she didn't directly go to North but heard it from Duff who did'nt want to join Isleys group and came to Riful... :confused: I hope that make sense...:heh:

Ahh, now that makes sense :D

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

so basically Rigaldo was the first AB's to join Isley...after that priscilla...and the rest follwed after that... and during that time duff ran away from north and came to Riful...and just maybe then...he gave her info that Isley defeted Prissy and is grouping up AB's...or I donmaybe she caught up info by unusual behavior of yoma's running around here and there...because even group of AB's would scare even yoma and they must have ran away from north...and came to west and south....

[SagaraSouske]

I think Dauf has been with Ritful a long time ago. Same goes for Rigardo and Isley. Some of the AB army are most likely early generations of male ABs that followed Isley north when he became the first AO while others may have joined them after Isley spread rumor about Priscilla and looking for active recruits.

As for how rumor spread to Ritful, yomas could be the ones that pass the info. We did see some yomas under the control of Ritful and Dauf. Some may been used for information gathering or some may just traveled from north to west at Isley's bidding to spread the rumor.

[Awakened]

The Org knew about Isley plans, thats why they sent 24 Claymore to die in the north and had Alicia and Beth waiting for the 11 Abs.

[Shiek927]

The Org knew about Isley plans, thats why they sent 24 Claymore to die in the north and had Alicia and Beth waiting for the 11 Abs.

But not to the degree that Riful did; the Org had the extra benefit of getting rid of the "bad" soldiers, but as far as we know, they never heard about any of the rumors, they never knew Isley's true intentions(splitting his forces purposely and getting to Luciella to prevent any threats to Priscilla), they never even heard of the fight between Isley and Priscilla and as far as we know, they don't know even know about Priscilla at all.

In fact, The Organization doesn''t seem to know anything about what happened when they sent the slayers to kill Teresa. Obviously, they know Teresa died and ended up in Claire, and they know the other soldiers died except for Irene, and they gathered that Priscilla awakening. Going back to the battle scene confirms these things, but it's also curious how they only one who confirms these things through the Organization's point of view is Rubel

Which makes me wonder if the Organization HAS heard Isley's rumors, and all these things and he's purposely hidden them to keep them in the dark.

[Awakened]

But not to the degree that Riful did; the Org had the extra benefit of getting rid of the "bad" soldiers, but as far as we know, they never heard about any of the rumors, they never knew Isley's true intentions(splitting his forces purposely and getting to Luciella to prevent any threats to Priscilla), they never even heard of the fight between Isley and Priscilla and as far as we know, they don't know even know about Priscilla at all.

In fact, The Organization doesn''t seem to know anything about what happened when they sent the slayers to kill Teresa. Obviously, they know Teresa died and ended up in Claire, and they know the other soldiers died except for Irene, and they gathered that Priscilla awakening. Going back to the battle scene confirms these things, but it's also curious how they only one who confirms these things through the Organization's point of view is Rubel

Which makes me wonder if the Organization HAS heard Isley's rumors, and all these things and he's purposely hidden them to keep them in the dark.

As far as I'm concerned the Org is the most inform group on the island. We as the reader hears things from Riful, but that does not mean that the Org did not know about them.

The Org had an eye that could monitor the movements of Abs for miles.
The Org have Claymores stationed all over the island.
The Org have yomas working for them, as we have seen in Clare's training.
The Org have Abs working for them (Slasher arc)
The Org interact with all the villages (taking the girls)(looking for Reene)
The Org hold meetings to keep up with current event.
The Org trains Claymore for covert ops/Assassination.
The Org was spying on Riful before the war in the north, why not spy on Isley? (they created AFs just to kill him) (Alicia to kill Riful)

Riful only knew about Isley true plan when she tried to kill him. She met Priscilla face to face and realized how powerful Priscilla was.

The Org are not concerned about Priscilla because she is not an immediate treat to them. Ruble said that the Org would way its options if it had to confront Priscilla. In other words, self preservation is more important to the org than killing Priscilla.

Priscilla destroyed many villages that some of the Claymores that are working for the Org came from, they know about her (Ophelia).

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

You got a point there Awakened...everything we read is mostly indirect info frm others...we don't really know what organization is really doing or get a info directly frm them...since it doesnt occur in manga...they even made Alicia hiding her frm riful n isley n luciella...its them who don't know wat exactly the organization is doing...the only person of organization who gives its inside news is rubel (who is a spy) but we really never get any criticle info on organizations behaviour or motives directly from their ppl.

[dweller of the deep]

Priscilla destroyed many villages that some of the Claymores that are working for the Org came from, they know about her (Ophelia).


Hm, now something that crossed my mind. Ophelia is a new Claymore. She was 'created' after Priscilla's awakening, and was trained and achieved such a high ranking in less than 7 years.

And she can't be too old, probably around 20. :eyebrow:

___

To continue the discussion:

The organization had the #7 at the north (I don't remember her name, Eva?) and she was killed along with her party by a huge amount of awakened beings. That's why the org send the 24 warriors. (along with the desire to get rid of them :mad:)

They must had assumed it was Easley's doing since it's unusual to AB to join forces.

[Shiek927]

The Org are not concerned about Priscilla because she is not an immediate treat to them. Ruble said that the Org would way its options if it had to confront Priscilla. In other words, self preservation is more important to the org than killing Priscilla.


Ooh, I forgot all about that part. Confirms that the Organization is at least probably aware of her after her awakening, though it's still questionable why we haven't heard about her from them since.

[dream-seeker]

Question: Chapter 93 page 6. Deneve said she caught a faint sense of Clare's youki. Is Deneve a good sensor from that distance? Or is it that Clare's youki radiate that far together with Rafaella's awakening?

[Awakened]

Question: Chapter 93 page 6. Deneve said she caught a faint sense of Clare's youki. Is Deneve a good sensor from that distance? Or is it that Clare's youki radiate that far together with Rafaella's awakening?

I'm starting to think Clare got a power up. Her flesh was mixed with Racillia's (AF territory).

[dream-seeker]

I'm starting to think Clare got a power up. Her flesh was mixed with Racillia's (AF territory).

Raciella is AF territory?

Another unique upgrade. From the strongest warrior to the quickest sword techniques and now emotions. The author always makes Clare carries most of these warriors "will".

[Awakened]

Raciella is AF territory?


AF's are made by mixing humans with Abs. It looks to my like Clare was connected to Racilia. Yagi has allot of options when it comes to upgrading Clare.

Edit:
If Clare was just swimming inside Racillia she would have kept her clothes on.:D

Edit:
There is also the option for partial soul-link between Clare and Racillia.

[Gooral]

(...)
As for how rumor spread to Ritful, yomas could be the ones that pass the info. We did see some yomas under the control of Ritful and Dauf. Some may been used for information gathering or some may just traveled from north to west at Isley's bidding to spread the rumor.
It's possible but I doubt it. I don't see how Isley could control yomas. Riful managed to do that only because they didn't have a chance to escape her (at first some probably tried but they were killed by her or Dauff), they were too close to her. But with Isley it wasn't like that. Once he let them go he would have no control over them whatsoever. Because they're all the same he wouldn't even remember which one disobeyed him and if he wanted revenge he would have to kill every youma he met.

[SagaraSouske]

Well he controls yoma the same way he controls those cannon fodder ABs, by being far more powerful and thus they follow him. Yoma would be easily coerced by any AB essentially since even a generic AB can sense and kill yoma with ease.

[Shiek927]

Well he controls yoma the same way he controls those cannon fodder ABs, by being far more powerful and thus they follow him. Yoma would be easily coerced by any AB essentially since even a generic AB can sense and kill yoma with ease.

His fellow AB's however had a certain level of respect and history with him - it's not like he merely rules through fear, they knew him since all their human days together as part of the first generation. They trust him, which is why they fell for his trap of ending up as cannon fodder. That's why they died, it's not because they were stupid.

Yoma on the other hand...do they even feel fear? Are they even capable of enough emotion that they can be coerced by somebody? Are they even worth the effort?

It just doesn't seem to add up. They're weak, they're common....control seems to be the biggest issue as I doubt Yoma have enough emotion to feel attachment or loyalty, whether by fear or interest, the Organization seems to be the only exception, but other then that, they're animals who only care about themselves. The effort to control Yoma....doesn't seem worth it too me.

[dream-seeker]

AF's are made by mixing humans with Abs. It looks to my like Clare was connected to Racilia. Yagi has allot of options when it comes to upgrading Clare.

Edit:
If Clare was just swimming inside Racillia she would have kept her clothes on.:D

Edit:
There is also the option for partial soul-link between Clare and Racillia.

What is the possibility Clare also took off all her clothes before giving in to Rafaela's mind-link? She might have expected her body to awaken. lol

[SagaraSouske]

His fellow AB's however had a certain level of respect and history with him - it's not like he merely rules through fear, they knew him since all their human days together as part of the first generation.

Yoma on the other hand...do they even feel fear?

They certainly did when Claymores are killing them and some tries to run away. For example the flying yoma Clare throw her claymore to kill. Also those under Dauf feared Clare and was trying to run when Dauf killed one with his hands.

[SagaraSouske]

Sure, you won't inspire loyalty from yomas but ruling by fear is perfectly fine when you are so much more powerful. It's not hard to get some yomas to spread rumors - it's something that isn't really hazardous to yoma and not difficult for them to do.

[Shiek927]

They certainly did when Claymores are killing them and some tries to run away. For example the flying yoma Clare throw her claymore to kill. Also those under Dauf feared Clare and was trying to run when Dauf killed one with his hands.

It's to tell, considering they always have that fixed snarl on their faces :heh:, you can't get any emotion from their faces, that's for sure.

It's moments like those that you have to remember that humans aren't the only creatures that feel emotions, even in a story where humanity is so important. Yoma, who aren't naturally human at all, apparently feel fear too.

Nevertheless, I stand by what I said: Yoma will only look out for themselves. The Organization seems to have some sort of secret to controlling them and their has to be - you can't trust them for anything because they'll turn their backs the second it's good for them. They're all Gollums :heh:

They may have emotions, but I doubt but extremely few bare ones, that are more like natural instincts rather then "genuine emotions" or something that's at least more human, since they're not. The best way to sum them all up, they're animals through and through.

Sure, you won't inspire loyalty from yomas but ruling by fear is perfectly fine when you are so much more powerful. It's not hard to get some yomas to spread rumors - it's something that isn't really hazardous to yoma and not difficult for them to do.

Spreading rumors is one thing, but would they actually serve under him?

Maybe I just have the wrong perception about them. They're animals, but perhaps their more human then I'm giving them credit for, especially if they can be bossed around. When I see them, Abyssal Feeders aren't far from my mind, and they're about as mindless as they come.

I think the confusion with Yoma is; AB's are explained for their humanity by being humans at one point; Yoma on the other hand are common, weak, and in the shape of humans, having certain instincts or "human emotions"......the question is, how human are Yoma, even though they actually aren't? They're more human then the Feeders, but less so then the Awakened Beings.....it's such a blurry little crack, it's crazy :heh:

Some Yoma truly are mindless; The ones that fought Clarice and Miata come to mind. Yet the earliest chapters with Claire, when AB's weren't around yet, they walked, talked and everything. And it's harder because we don't even see Yomas around much anymore; the last I can think of was Raki's kill in 81.

-----

Actually scratch that part about them being more human then the Feeders, because we know they were originally normal women....but that only makes them MORE complicated, because Yoma are pretty much made from nothing, but they act more human then the Feeders which actually originally were human.

:eyespin::eyespin::eyespin::eyespin:

How is it that an animal can act more human, then creatures that originally were human? I know the Feeders are a massive exception to alot of things considering what they did to them, specifically their minds, but it still boggles my head thinking about it.

[SagaraSouske]

Well using them to spread rumors is a way of serving him. He certainly have no need for them to fight for him with tons of ABs under him.

[Gooral]

@SagaraSouske
Isley wouldn't be able to verify whether they spread the rumors or not. Well he could if he sent some scouts but then why would he need youma? Also, if I were Riful I would wonder why would youma spread such rumors? They shouldn't give a damn that some AB fought each other.
What's more, I don't see why yoma would be scared of some awakened being that was miles away. They wouldn't know how powerful he was because they couldn't sense youki. An idle threat would mean nothing to them so unless Isley started to rampage some cities they were staying in they would just ignore him. Besides, he would have to gather a group of youma, demonstrated his power and then sent them to spread rumors (usually youma acted alone, rarely in bigger groups, so in order to intimidate them he would have to do it). As Shieck wrote, it wasn't worth the trouble.

Seriously though, I wonder how you think youma spread the rumors.
Would they talk to humans?
- Hey you. Isley defeated Priscilla!
- Who's Isley? Who's Priscilla? Get lost.

Would he talk to other youma?
- Hey you. Isley defeated Priscilla!
- *munch* *munch* I want to eat.
- If you don't listen to me Isley will come and kill you!
- *munch* *munch*

Would he talk to other AB? Don't think so, if he ever found any (which wouldn't be that easy for youma that can't sense youki and resides mainly in the cities) he would stay away from it because he might get killed.

(...) First off, when Riful laid eyes upon Priscilla, her focus and goals shifted from trying to defeat Isley to trying to defeat Priscilla. Second, Awakened Beings are immortals, and while seven years may seem a long time to us, Riful used to spend her time sleeping and eating, before Isley started a war. Next, how did Riful know the about the false rumor of Isley defeating Priscilla? Yoma and/or Awakened Beings. There used to be a lot more Awakened Beings around, before the war in the north, and the org actively hunting them to make ZACS. Yoma? Well the org controls their population. So, it wouldn't be to unreasonable, to assume that the information has been stopped from reaching Riful. Also before, Riful and Dauf had Yoma working for them, this time we didn't see the new base with any yoma. And Why didn't Rabona know? Well there are 47 Districts in 4 different Area, and we don't know if people do too much traveling from District to District. We do know that there are tons of Yoma out in the forests and traveling can be dangerous.
But where Isley was, Priscilla was. No one in his right mind would think that Isley would let Priscilla go willingly and the fight was unlikely because Isley wasn't stupid enough to take Priscilla on. That said, watching Isley's moves was the most certain thing she could do to know where Priscilla was.
As for this immortal thing, it's not convincing argument here. The moment Riful knew about Priscilla her vacation ended. I can't believe she would waste time like she did before when any time Isley could decide to strike her down. She didn't know she would have seven years.
And about people of Rabona not knowing what was going on, read Arturro's comment (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2502467#post2502467). Rabona is the biggest city we know of, it's a place where merchants gather (it wasn't strange to the innkeeper that Clare wanted to sell an item there). It should be a given that they would have some contacts in the south and if they hadn't heard from them for a couple of months... The same goes for merchants that would go south and didn't go back. But to be honest I doubt that no one from destroyed cities would survive or that rumors wouldn't spread in the whole south and from there to other areas.
As for the youma thing I disagree (which should be obvious by now).

[Arkham]

I don't think yoma are stupid or primitive. I think they are smarter than humans. To humans they are animals becouse they are predators,but we (I) don't know the relationship between yomas. We know they can form group's to hunt and strategies. And they can certainly feel fear. Raki's brother beaged Clare for mercy.

[ChainedPhilosophy]

One of the most interesting elements of the Chapter was the revival of the Twin Goddess image from the earlier chapters of the manga. Since I value this as a symbolical representation of growth and realization in Claire's epic to an accomplishment, I see it as one of the core essences of Claymore.

The image bore a lifeless existence in the form of a statue 7 years ago, merely an object of life (in Claire with the life Teresa tries to give her) and hope( in Raki- in meeting Claire again). During this time, the main composure of the image was to present the birth of a journey of realizing. Claire had to meet the tragic challenges for survival. She needed to accumulate strength to gradually prove her self as a warrior and so she did.

This time, it was shown in the being of an AB(a symbol of great power). This means that the time had ripen for Claire's accomplishment of reaching the magnitude of power for a more purposeful goal and I see that goal as taking part on the war in the outside world which was prematurely introduced in the not so recent chapters. Thus, being it a 'messenger of despair' or 'harbinger of destruction' is essential to predict the perishing of the characters (which are irrelevant to the next plot twist) mainly, Riful, Alicia, Beth, Dauf, other Ghosts especially Yuma, Cynthia, Helen and Deneve. Priscilla, may also be with the foregoing of the list. The being may or may not be on par with Priscilla yet with the presence of a skillfully trained warrior (Claire) it has an advantage over her.

The reason why I say that Claire had her ultimate accumulated power now is that she had mastered the SQ of Irene (in a higher level, overwhelmed Raphaela's defense; perhaps the most destructive sword technique ever revealed). Having acquired the bequeathed power of Raphaela ( meaning she can gain control over the AB) was also very significant.

We'll we can't really speculate rightly over Yagi's unpredictable genius.

[SagaraSouske]

@Gooral, there are a couple scenarios I can think of.

One, Isley catches some yoma nearby and threatens to kill them if they remain in his territory. He then send them to towns in Ritful’s area to feast and tell them that he has just recently defeated another powerful female AB and will be soon start his conquest of the entire island and no yomas better cross his path. So fear of death drives these yoma trying to get away from Isley’s domain. Some may go south and some may go west, none will go east since that’s where the Org is. Ritful or Dauff would either encounter some of these yoma that went west when they are feasting or those yoma they control may have met them and got information from them.

Two, Isley sends a bunch of ABs to go around and hunt yomas but do not kill them. They will force those yoma to agree to their bidding or die at their hands. These AB task masters then control the yomas to spread rumors.

Three, Ritful may send yomas she control to the north as spies and gather information. She may exercise a control system that is half based on fear and half based on the lure of providing constant food source and protection from claymores.

You don't have to spread rumor by telling yoma to go tell Ritful xxxx or tell another AB xxxx. Simply by letting them see what you want them to see and putting them in a place where Ritful may come across is sufficient. Sure yoma do not give a damn about AB fighting each other. But they would care about their own personal well being. They can definitely be controlled in a fashion as the Org clearly have a great of deal of control over them since they release them into the world in the first place.

[clarakiss~]

waahh~h i've come back :p

miss riful seems to be in deep trouble now... :heh: oh well, she had it coming neways and raciella's awakened form looks just like the twin goddess statue? :twitch:

i wasn't expecting that and it's quite unimpressive (no offense). :D <<< i say this because only if teresa and clare had merged together they would've been like how the twin goddess statue was right? only then i would've been like 'zomg!!' o.o?! lol

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

Can anyone guess wat clare will actually gain from the memories and emotions of Rafaella?? Definately her spirutual strenght will increase...wat more possibilities could be there?

[Ryuken]

With experience comes power, this is one way of putting it.:)

[FragrantFlora]

Well, we haven't seen much of what Clare has exactly gained yet from Rafaela. She is changed though for sure and no doubt has gotten stronger.

[holypanl]

This chapter was amazing. The organization sent the Abyss Feeders AND Alicia and Beth after Rifl. This is obviously it.

I think Rafaela/Luciela will just try to reign over the continent, seeing as they apparently have nothing else to do. Or they may discover the other continent with the Human/Yoma war and take sides with the Yoma. Then...

Great chapter.

[dweller of the deep]

and now she must know if Rafaela executed Irene for sure.

[iLney]

Well, we haven't seen much of what Clare has exactly gained yet from Rafaela. She is changed though for sure and no doubt has gotten stronger.

...and she's sexier. That is without a doubt :D

[MisterJB]

...and she's sexier. That is without a doubt :D

she was always sexy. Now it's just a little...more obvious.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Are you saying Clare gained a Cup size from Rafaela? :heh:

[King Lycan]

Are you saying Clare gained a Cup size from Rafaela? :heh:

Gained a Cup Size

http://bleachasylum.com/images/smilies/rofl.gif

[iLney]

There is always something to gain, ey.

Who knows, it's maybe useful against Raki :D He's gonna be the last boss!

[Awakened]

Can anyone guess wat clare will actually gain from the memories and emotions of Rafaella?? Definately her spirutual strenght will increase...wat more possibilities could be there?

Yagi could give her any power up he wants. He mix her with a powerful AB, he have her a powerful Claymore memories.

She could gain AF regeneration abilities. A new sword technique, more yoki. Ability to awaken and come back.

She might be able to soul link with any sensor.

[clarakiss~]

Who knows, it's maybe useful against Raki :D He's gonna be the last boss!

it would've been more meaningful if clare was the final boss herself. after taking down the org and priscilla like she intended from the beginning, she goes out of control in the end.

the ghost and raki do all they can to try to bring her back. raki would be the key here in successfully bringing her back. while miria and gang distract clare, raki would get much closer and work his magic by talking to her.

i fear he'd die in the process but it would save clare by returning her to her normal self. :( i could see that happening...

[Sheky]

It's been a while since I read the older chapters. But was Raphy's ougi ever mentioned? Did she even have one?

[Addiction_2_Claymore]

what's ougi? did you mean yoki? geez, how many different names are there for something?

[FragrantFlora]

Ougi? :heh:

I don't think Raki's gonna be the last boss...in anything :heh:

I like clarakiss's idea. Who knows right? Clare could be the final boss.

[Negativedark]

The power Claire gained from Raphelea was the ability to do Claysion. She'll use it with Deneve, then Helen when they get there.

[haegar]

what's claysion?

I think I missed something again xD

[revan5]

what's claysion?

I think I missed something again xD

I'm assuming it is soul-link until stated otherwise. This would allow Claire to awaken without losing her soul, or so Alicia/Beth allegedly prove.

[haegar]

which would indicate we are going in the direction of a prissy clare confrontation - since prissy seems to be the only one that can ONLY be taken down by clare's full awakening...

so i hope that's still gonna take some time.

It might also be the other way round, that clare learns something about fighting better and stronger WITHOUT releasing or awaking AT ALL - basically clare arriving at theresa's unique style of fighting without release or 10% only. Mind, that was Raphaella's style as well

I have this weird notion that this might be clare's "mistake" - that she's failing to understand that she can use the enormous potential of theresa's yoki without an unelegant "brute force" release or partial awakening. Which might then lead to clare pulling stunts like the hand-twisting Theresa did to Rosemary ... that would a) be cool and b) offer a way for clare to get somewhat stronger without getting closer and closer to full and irreversible awakening ...

[Gangsta Spanksta]

The power Claire gained from Raphelea was the ability to do Claysion. She'll use it with Deneve, then Helen when they get there.

What would clare do with the power of Claymation? No, no more annoying singing and dancing California Raisins!

[Shiek927]

it would've been more meaningful if clare was the final boss herself. after taking down the org and priscilla like she intended from the beginning, she goes out of control in the end.

the ghost and raki do all they can to try to bring her back. raki would be the key here in successfully bringing her back. while miria and gang distract clare, raki would get much closer and work his magic by talking to her.

i fear he'd die in the process but it would save clare by returning her to her normal self. :( i could see that happening...

It's all too possible Clarakiss, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if that's what it came too. Nobody's lives are "protected" in any sort of way by the author.

Not sure if your idea works Haeger. Remember, Claire isn't just making some little mistake or failing to understand her potential. She's making a tragic mistake, a possibly fatal mistake. I think their is much more too it then that.

Sheky...........are you trying to steal my name? (XDXD, kidding :heh:)

[haegar]

Not sure if your idea works Haeger. Remember, Claire isn't just making some little mistake or failing to understand her potential. She's making a tragic mistake, a possibly fatal mistake. I think their is much more too it then that.


well that depends, for instance if not fighting in theresa's "controlled" way means gradually awakening the "inner beast" to an extent where it can't be surpressed anymore and takes over completely, clare failing to get this might be exactely the mistake that drives her to awakening and becoming the "end boss" like clara-kiss mentioned. If so it would indeed be a "fatal" mistake....

edit:
ups I edited the wrong post :D

[Cyclone]

what's ougi? did you mean yoki? geez, how many different names are there for something?

ougi is the japanese term usually translated as "final attack" - basically the highest technique that the martial art they practice has to offer. Rurouni Kenshin's ougi for example was "amakakeru ryuu no hirameki".

And no - we have no idea what Raphaela's special attack is.

[haegar]

thx for the update ;)

does that only rely to "attack" specifically?

cause otherwise, raph's ougi would be a) her stealth and b) soullink /ability to control another who is close and "atuned" to her

[Shiek927]

ougi is the japanese term usually translated as "final attack" - basically the highest technique that the martial art they practice has to offer. Rurouni Kenshin's ougi for example was "amakakeru ryuu no hirameki".

And no - we have no idea what Raphaela's special attack is.

:eyebrow: How many characters have such a technique, if any?

Miria's phantom....quick-sword.....Windcutter.......No character in Claymore has such an "ultimate move" above all else, they're all special attacks but that's it.

Isley's Sword I guess, he describes it as his best weapon...but I think he's the only one with something like that.

[haegar]

dunno... I guess you could say that clare's windcutter and quicksword are her special moves
and that her ougi is her unique ability of partial awakening ?

[MisterJB]

:eyebrow: How many characters have such a technique, if any?


Clare has both the QS and the WC but with the first one she can slice a number #2 in a second. Does that count?

[Shiek927]

Clare has both the QS and the WC but with the first one she can slice a number #2 in a second. Does that count?

Not really......maybe I just have a different idea with this sort of idea, but the "ultimate technique the martial art they have to practice can offer"?

I see such a thing, based on what Cyclone is telling me, as the Ultimate end-all be-all move they can do. QS and WC are her techniques all right, but honestly, Awakening I think is EVERYONE's "Ougi".

After all, when all else fails, power up as far as you can go by Fully Awakening. Makes more sense to me.

[Cyclone]

As far as I understand it, ougi is just the ultimate technique of whichever school you are a disciple of (e.g. in Kenshin's case, the "Hiten Mitsurugi" school/style of kendo). I wouldn't be surprised though to see an ougi or two pop up in "Yakitate!! Japan", a series about baking bread.

In this case, I think the original poster used it with a hint of sarcasm (like how in "Hayate no Gotoku", Hayate is looking for an ougi of his own).

But yeah - I guess soul link would be Raphaela's best skill - not sure it's an ougi per se though as I'm not sure there is a Raphaela school of clayfighting

fzToP1VTQDk

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Hmm, there is a difference between the highest level attack a school has to offer, and a finisher move.

Now Clare's finishers have changed as she got more powerful. I would say that there are two kinds of schools that Clare follows, "The way of the Teresa" and the Berserker style. The first time, we've seen Clare use a finisher, was when she used Teresa's precognition to dodge everything the enemy had, and make it looks stylish. The Next finisher was a Team move where Jean and Clare combined their special moves to take out dauf, when each individually had failed. Then then next one was when Clare Partially awakened. And finally, The quicksword has been improved to such a level that Rafaela didn't even have a chance as she and her Claymore got cut to pieces.

[xzzx]

I was allways wonder why yoma or Priscila didn't kill Claire then she was human. And Raphelea said something like Claire must understand her body better. Could it be somehow related with mistake and power up?

[Shiek927]

I was allways wonder why yoma or Priscila didn't kill Claire then she was human. And Raphelea said something like Claire must understand her body better. Could it be somehow related with mistake and power up?

The Yoma didn't kill Claire because it was molesting her, which struck her mentally and she "closed her heart and voice" or something like that.

Priscilla didn't kill her because, apparantely, she wasn't "even reflected in her eyes". Hard to say what the true answer is until we get one directly from Priscilla herself, but the idea everyone seems to have is what Riful said: Priscilla went from town to town killing those in her rampage, Ophelia's brother, but did not kill the little girls, perhaps because they reminded her of herself, perhaps because she believed they were innocent and pure like her. Hard to say.

I doubt we'll ever get a true answer until we hear it from herself, but considering how mentally unstable and broken she was at the time, I doubt we ever will.

Cyclone that game is hilarious :heh:, I wish I had the chance to play Clayfighters 64 3/4 or something like that on the N64.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Priscilla doesn't kill little girls. I don't think it was just Clare. Supporting Evidence, Ophelia lived.

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

I still have some doubts about yoki sensing in claymore...
Every claymore has a unique yoki right? like that time when clare was being chased by Ophelia...Irene caught the yoki of teresa as pointed "so it's you" and even in this chapter 93 everyone (cynthia, deneve, helen uma) can differentiate each other's yoki.... so after taking Irene's hand does clares yoki changed?? I mean Pricilla couldn't recognize her yoki from afar when she was fighting in north...I mean if she did she'd be like "Terera...murderer I'll kill you"...
another thing why couldn't pricilla and riful notice clare's yoki while deneve can?(well she did say it's faint. but still) is she better than those two or are those two too busy awing at the huge swelling in yoki ignoring the little details. plus cynthia and uma relesed the yoki as well...and riful didn't even notice???...the sensing of yoki really confuses me...

[Shiek927]

I mean Pricilla couldn't recognize her yoki from afar when she was fighting in north...I mean if she did she'd be like "Terera...murderer I'll kill you"...

Why? You said it herself, she's different. Claire has her own unique yoki which, although has traces of Teresa, Irene, and perhaps Rafaela now, is all her own. Priscilla wasn't mentally sound at the time and was quite pacified, she wouldn't leave regardlessly.

Deneve obviously has had much more time to recognize her friend, even if it's clouded by the massive juggernaut known as Raciella. Priscilla couldn't because of the distance, her skills which aren't the best, and of course Raciella.

All your questions can be answered by one thing:Raciella. Her Yoki is obviously so astronomical, that you have to be an extremely good reason to be able to detect anything minute without it being clouded. Deneve recognizes her friend, so that's her. Riful on the other hand, even if she did sense Cynthia and Yuma, who cares? she cares more for Raciella.

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

tell me something did clare earlier had same yoki as of teresa or not?...I wanted to know did it change with addition of Irene's hand and evolved something original of her own or not? sometimes it points that it didn't changed so does that mean she had her own yoki to begin with....then how did Irene could sense Teresa's yoki in her?
Becuase galatea could recognise her even after she got Irene's hand...so how does this yoki senseing work?

[Shiek927]

tell me something did clare earlier had same yoki as of teresa or not?...I wanted to know did it change with addition of Irene's hand and evolved something original of her own or not? sometimes it points that it didn't changed so does that mean she had her own yoki to begin with....then how did Irene could sense Teresa's yoki in her?
Becuase galatea could recognise her even after she got Irene's hand...so how does this yoki senseing work?

The word Yoki has many meanings: the energy the user is capable of(whether willfully or potentially) is one of them. Every warrior is as unique as they are human, they all have their own distinct Yoki that is part of their identity, kind of like scent which is used by the AE's to track their targets.

Teresa is a part of Claire; Claire has her own powers, her own everything, but she is a part of her deep down. By having Irene's arm, her own powers increase but Irene's yoki, her identity, also overlaps with Claires. If someone would just sense Claire, they would only feel her. But if a skilled Eye like Galatea would take a closer look at the arm, they would know it's different then the rest of her body.

Irene sensed Teresa inside of her; part of it was logic and common sense, part of it was probably due to the fact that Irene felt Teresa's energy when she powered up and it's astronomical power left a permanent impression on her. Even if Irene's sensing skills aren't on the level of an Eye, she will never forget it for the rest of her life and as such, easily felt a "familiar presence."

Don't feel too bad, it's a complicated question. Their is a very great deal when it comes to Yoki, and I didn't even scratch the surface.

[Vinak]

The word Yoki has many meanings: the energy the user is capable of(whether willfully or potentially) is one of them. Every warrior is as unique as they are human, they all have their own distinct Yoki that is part of their identity, kind of like scent which is used by the AE's to track their targets.


how human are they exactly? :)

[Shiek927]

how human are they exactly? :)

Well, for Claymores and other such warriors, physically, half for the most part. Claire, is obviously not, and depending on the exact generation, it's hard to say(I'm looking at you Clarice).

But I was speaking metaphorically Vinak when I wrote that: Everybody is unique, as is the ones with yoki in them. Physically is one thing, but Claire has her own yoki signature. It may or not have have traces of Teresa's and Irene's(and possibly Rafaela's) when a outer scan of her is done, though if an Eye were to sense her, they'd sense that she's actually pieces of others put together and melded with her rather then just have a signature that is totally her own.

Admittingly, it's hard to back-up what I say, especially when I can't recall such a scan being done, though I believe what I'm saying isn't too far off from the truth. Teresa for example is inside of Claire and a part of her: does that mean she will eventually use Teresa's power and as such, use her yoki rather then her own? or will her yoki simply blend in with Claire's and others won't feel it's Teresa in front of them instead of Claire?

With Irene, it's a bit of both and neither at the same time. She felt Teresa inside of Claire, but never really seemed to acknowledge the outer energy that's Claire, so the two seem to be seperate to a certain degree.

It's tough; with Yoki, I feel their's always a very blurry vague line with these sorts of things so it's hard to pinpoint definite answers.

[Sheky]

tell me something did clare earlier had same yoki as of teresa or not?...I wanted to know did it change with addition of Irene's hand and evolved something original of her own or not? sometimes it points that it didn't changed so does that mean she had her own yoki to begin with....then how did Irene could sense Teresa's yoki in her?
Becuase galatea could recognise her even after she got Irene's hand...so how does this yoki senseing work?

My opinion is that in addition to all the other things that it can do, yoki can act like the metaphysical scent of yoma, AB, or warrior. IMO, the yoma presented evokes the image of an animal. For example, the fact that they only go after guts is very interesting. When the body of the English climber George Mallory was discovered 70 years? later after going missing, they found the birds had pecked through his butt and anus to feed on his guts. They didn't pick him bone clean which would be the logical thing to do in a place with little food like Everest, which suggests they instinctively went for the guts and left the rest.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Yagi picked guts as the food of choice for yoma. Once you view the yoma in an animal context, the yoki sensing thing makes sense in a way. Every animal has his or her own scent. Only that this yoma animal can sense this "scent" metaphysically without using a nose. No different than a dog that can smell food or another small animal in your pockets. This is not really supported by any info directly from the manga, just my 2 cents.

[FragrantFlora]

Oh yeah, ougi!!!

I've heard that word before in Valkyrie Profile when a character does a soul crusher kind of move :heh: Yep I remember it now. It sounds more like Oh gi.

Clare is indeed way stronger than when she started out.

[Sleepy Speculator]

Been rather busy the last two weeks, but this page looks rather interesting so i'll insert some speculation here.

And i apologise for getting all metaphysical but i feel that yoki isn't just an energy signature but perhaps the actual manifestation of the soul. Like an aura it's different with each individual and non detectable (not that i believe in that in real life). It also has shape of the individual which allows them to rebuild their bodies in a memory of what their shape should be. (phantom limbs?)

Clare's yoki is individual in that it his her soul as a result of hybridisation, but it also has been consistently expressed as 'weak' or 'small' despite the fact that a very dangerous monster that can tear an awakened #2 to shreds resides inside her. There is probably also a hint in here, because Clare's yoki was probably the 'bright light' that Priscilla described that along with Miria was obviously the strongest amongst the two ghosts. And yet even so, no one has said Claire is strong not even Cynthia who detected a rapid increase in Clare's yoki.

But this is the interesting thing, the combined forms of Raphealla and Luciella were undetectable except to excellent yoki sensors such as Renee, and Claire, who probed to find a 'compressed' form of yoki, which when released has been shown to be vaster than anything else on the island.

Perhaps this explains Claire's endless yoki stamina, as she just keeps drawing on her compressed yoki. A pool that has been soul linked with, Jean and Raphealla/Luciella, that was the result of hybridisation using Teresa, and which at some point got a unique signature addition of Ilena's arm...

[klare]

its been a while since i feel so excited reading Claymore

this chapter really make me cant wait for the next one

[romari]

One thing i dont get... Dauf is not an Abyssal... yet the Zombies ate his hand... Weren't they supposed only to fetch the smell coming from the piece of riful's body recoved by the organization?

[M.Marangio]

One thing i dont get... Dauf is not an Abyssal... yet the Zombies ate his hand... Weren't they supposed only to fetch the smell coming from the piece of riful's body recoved by the organization?
It's the hand that hold Riful's dress.

[klare]

i guess he was holding Riful's shirt, which has her smell on it

the funny thing is why Dauf did not notice the pain, i remember he cried and screamed like crazy due to the pain after being attacked by Clare

[clarakiss~]

ever since reading chp 93, i began to wonder if clare's mind is in synced with raceilla's? when clare reemerged from raciella's awakened body, she said 'this is the form you wished for at the end. this form... it's just like...'

raciella might have realized the 'twin goddess statue' image was very important to clare because it reminded her of teresa and raki. raciella then made the decision to make her awakened form that very much resembled the statue.

[romari]

"it reminded her of teresa and raki" ? Then one of the twins should have been a donkey :D

[clarakiss~]

i said it because raki drew the 'twin goddess statue' when he was being held captive in one of the towns up north seven years ago.

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

i guess he was holding Riful's shirt, which has her smell on it

the funny thing is why Dauf did not notice the pain, i remember he cried and screamed like crazy due to the pain after being attacked by Clare

I also notice that he didn't bleed...it can be seen in many Awakened beings...like when Teresa twisted rosemary's hand, when clare chopped Ophelia's hands, when helen breaks rifuls body, when priscilla and abyss feeder cut Isley...I don't know what the reason is but they don't bleed sometimes and at that time they don't feel pain...where as when they bleed they feel pain...(galatea cutting duff, clare cutting six handed Ab at mountains, clare using quick sword on body of orphelia), and of course yoma...they feel pain because they bleed...I've haven't seen any yoma not bleed...its only AB's that don't bleed in some parts of the body...but they feel pain if they are cut where they bleed...and if all the sensitive parts where blood is there, are chopped off they die...atleast that the pattern I've observed...tell me if i'm wrong?

I thing the human part of the AB's body have blood (like for Orphelia she moved all her hunan part at on her tail and when clare was chopping her front part of body she wasn't bleeding but she bled at clares final strike to her stomach...same can be seen when Orphelia chopped the head of the AB's in vol. 7...only her head bled but before when Orphelia cut her nexk she didn't bled and she was talking "the monster is you" and all...

I've never seen riful bleed...plus the loli is all tape like...don't know where her blood flows....

So I have a question does that meen the stronger the awaken beings the less blood they have and more yoki they posess?...Is it becuase of that its hard to destroy their awakened body in one move because the body parts where blood is all segregated with in the awakened body...

and as I remember duff this time was just stiing in one place...where as with galatea he was fighting meaning he was using his yoki...and he did bled at that time...

Ok i'm getting a migrane... anyone else please take over on this

[haegar]

And i apologise for getting all metaphysical but i feel that yoki isn't just an energy signature but perhaps the actual manifestation of the soul. Like an aura it's different with each individual and non detectable (not that i believe in that in real life). It also has shape of the individual which allows them to rebuild their bodies in a memory of what their shape should be. (phantom limbs?)

Clare's yoki is individual in that it his her soul as a result of hybridisation, but it also has been consistently expressed as 'weak' or 'small' despite the fact that a very dangerous monster that can tear an awakened #2 to shreds resides inside her. There is probably also a hint in here, because Clare's yoki was probably the 'bright light' that Priscilla described that along with Miria was obviously the strongest amongst the two ghosts. And yet even so, no one has said Claire is strong not even Cynthia who detected a rapid increase in Clare's yoki.

But this is the interesting thing, the combined forms of Raphealla and Luciella were undetectable except to excellent yoki sensors such as Renee, and Claire, who probed to find a 'compressed' form of yoki, which when released has been shown to be vaster than anything else on the island.

Perhaps this explains Claire's endless yoki stamina, as she just keeps drawing on her compressed yoki. A pool that has been soul linked with, Jean and Raphealla/Luciella, that was the result of hybridisation using Teresa, and which at some point got a unique signature addition of Ilena's arm...

I think your on to something there, while I'm a bit doubtful about the soul part, the logic of the two compressed yokis "cancelling each other out" to sensors unless released uncompressed seems VERY sound :D

(i.e. bright light in pieta, precisely because clare had released over the limit against rigaldo - although by the time prissy sensed her she had reverted back, there might still have been som lingering "feel" of her double yoki's real form that prissy could sense)

as for "soul-linking" with jean in pieta, I never thought of it that way, but I guess its entirely possible that through that yoki-synchronisation, she also got some part from jean - man she really is cannibalizing people :D

[Cyclone]

ever since reading chp 93, i began to wonder if clare's mind is in synced with raceilla's? when clare reemerged from raciella's awakened body, she said 'this is the form you wished for at the end. this form... it's just like...'

raciella might have realized the 'twin goddess statue' image was very important to clare because it reminded her of teresa and raki. raciella then made the decision to make her awakened form that very much resembled the statue.

There is an alternate explanation. Teresa probably knew Raphaela. Teresa told Clare about the twin goddesses, but who told Teresa? It probably wasn't the parents who sold her or the Org itself. Raphaela, being a twin herself is a great candidate for someone to hear and remember the twin goddess myth, and having met a prodigy with the same name as one of the Goddesses, it makes sense she would have told Teresa about it (especially since experiments with other twins seemed to be on her mind during that time period).

But in any event, the twin goddess legend is import to Clare (and eventually Raki) because it was important to Teresa first.

[Shiek927]

There is an alternate explanation. Teresa probably knew Raphaela. Teresa told Clare about the twin goddesses, but who told Teresa? It probably wasn't the parents who sold her or the Org itself. Raphaela, being a twin herself is a great candidate for someone to hear and remember the twin goddess myth, and having met a prodigy with the same name as one of the Goddesses, it makes sense she would have told Teresa about it (especially since experiments with other twins seemed to be on her mind during that time period).

But in any event, the twin goddess legend is import to Clare (and eventually Raki) because it was important to Teresa first.

More like Teresa definitely knew Rafaela, we know she did.

That's the funny thing about Cognates of Paradise; it gives the impression that the time she met child Teresa was the first and last time. She could have easily went out of her way to occasionally meet Teresa as she grew up and formed a sort of teacher-student bond, perhaps in further hopes that Teresa wouldn't grow up to be like her.

I particuraly what Illney said about the Twin Goddess's, how they effect more then just Teresa and Claire and parallels are all over the place: the first represents love, purity and humanity, protecting the second from self-destruction. Claire helped Teresa grow a heart and no longer hate humans and give a reason to live, Raki saved Claire from awakening and gave her something to live for besides revenge, Rafaela saved(or at least attempted too) Luciella from herself during Soul-Link, Beth saves her sister Alicia from fully Awakening, Clarice saved Miata from becoming a new Priscilla, Raki grew a heart in Isley and made him care more for his family then war, and Raki transformed Priscilla from the strongest monster to a child who doesn't eat humans.

The Twin Goddesses are a huge part of Claymore; you can make all kind of comparisons and parallels without even trying.

-------

In another note, a question I've asked time and time again and still haven't gotten an answer:

In the beginning of Chapter 92 and the cover artwork of Claire, above Yagi's name is "No.001".

Is their any particular reason that's there? Claire in many ways, is already a No.1 ranked warrior, but is this some sort of confirmation? or something else entirely?

[dweller of the deep]

There is an alternate explanation. Teresa probably knew Raphaela. Teresa told Clare about the twin goddesses, but who told Teresa? It probably wasn't the parents who sold her or the Org itself. Raphaela, being a twin herself is a great candidate for someone to hear and remember the twin goddess myth, and having met a prodigy with the same name as one of the Goddesses, it makes sense she would have told Teresa about it (especially since experiments with other twins seemed to be on her mind during that time period).

But in any event, the twin goddess legend is import to Clare (and eventually Raki) because it was important to Teresa first.


sold? :eyebrow: hm, the majority of Claymores are orphans, that's why the people form Alicia and Beth town were so surprised when the org demanded them.

Teresa probably had a normal upbringing, until getting orphan at least. And she could know the story while traveling to slaughter some yoma. Because.. I'm not seeing Rafaela telling a random story to a kid. Nope.. not Rafaela.

[Cyclone]

sold? :eyebrow: hm, the majority of Claymores are orphans, that's why the people form Alicia and Beth town were so surprised when the org demanded them.

Teresa probably had a normal upbringing, until getting orphan at least. And she could know the story while traveling to slaughter some yoma. Because.. I'm not seeing Rafaela telling a random story to a kid. Nope.. not Rafaela.

Unless my memory is starting to go on me, I recall in Teresa's intro it being mentioned that:
- she used to have black hair she was proud of
- and that she was betrayed by the people she trusted

@Shiek927:
I don't see where you're seeing that. What cover artwork of Clare? The page with the scene number has Raphaela on it.

[dweller of the deep]

Unless my memory is starting to go on me, I recall in Teresa's intro it being mentioned that:
- she used to have black hair she was proud of
- and that she was betrayed by the people she trusted

@Shiek927:
I don't see where you're seeing that. What cover artwork of Clare? The page with the scene number has Raphaela on it.

i don't remember that, really.

But I remember Teresa telling Clare, that their parents probably loved them very much to give them those names.

[Korinov]

As Cyclone says, Teresa mentioned about being betrayed and sold "like a toy or a puppet" by those she trusted most... I think it was in a monologue while lying in bed at an inn.

[Shiek927]

Korinov and Cyclone are correct, it's the first page of Chapter 13: Teresa laments how she was sold by the people she trusted and lost her signature black hair and had no choice but to join them or become a begger. It's a very tragic opening.

Cyclone, it's the first page of 92 on OM.

(http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2494809#post2494809), Normal methods of recruiting from what I understand:

From what I understand, the normal methods of Claymore recruiting as are followed:

1) The children are outright kidnapped. Not like the parents can do anything about it.
2) They were sold into slavery(girls to the East, boys to the North) and/or the Organization, the former usually leads to the latter. The idea is probably that this will help get
money for the family, while the family rationalizes their actions by thinking their children will have a better life, learning how to help protect people by fighting Yoma and being "heroes". This method is probably liked a great deal by the Organization as said children already have an established hatred of humans without even having yoma-flesh in them yet. Biggest I can think of is Teresa.
3) The main method: Big Bad Yoma comes into town and singles out a family; usually kills all of them while leaving the youngest before a Claymore "miraculously" walks in and kills it, said child becomes a member for revenge. Town typically fears the child, believing they might be "tainted" in some way, further pushing the child to psychologically seperate themselves from normal humans. Biggest example I can think of is Priscilla, who was, at the time of being a warrior, still for all intents and purposes still a child.

These are what I believe to be the "normal" methods. Of course, their are exceptions: Claire joining of her own free-will, and Alicia and Beth who were asked for, though this is basically number 2. And of course, many people are exceptions. Priscilla and Jean both fought for humanity, Cynthia loved life and happiness etc etc.

When it comes to slavery, I don't know exactly why the genders go the way they are, but it is curious: Girls go to the East, where Staff HQ is located, and obviously all current warriors are women. Boys are sent to the North, which was ruled by Isley, a male, who was leader of his army of first-generation warriors who were all also Men. I refuse to believe this as mere coincidence.

This leads me to believe, at one time or another, their may have also been another Organization facility in the North alongside the one in the East which is now the main headquarters.

[Cyclone]

Korinov and Cyclone are correct, it's the first page of Chapter 13: Teresa laments how she was sold by the people she trusted and lost her signature black hair and had no choice but to join them or become a begger. It's a very tragic opening.

Cyclone, it's the first page of 92 on OM.

Oh that! lol

That was not part of the chapter - that was enclosed in the magazine inside an envelope as an extra part of the "Jump Square Card Collection" (3 cards in the July Issue).
No. 001 is Claymore
No. 002 is Rosario+Vampire
No. 003 is Kurenai
The cards are postcard sized.

[Shiek927]

Oh that! lol

That was not part of the chapter - that was enclosed in the magazine inside an envelope as an extra part of the "Jump Square Card Collection" (3 cards in the July Issue).
No. 001 is Claymore
No. 002 is Rosario+Vampire
No. 003 is Kurenai
The cards are postcard sized.

Ugh, really? :uhoh:

I honestly got my hopes up; thinking that Yagi was trying to send us a message and say Claire was now a Number.1 warrior or something :(

We KNOW she is, but at least this would be confirmation.

[revan5]

Ugh, really? :uhoh:

I honestly got my hopes up; thinking that Yagi was trying to send us a message and say Claire was now a Number.1 warrior or something :(

We KNOW she is, but at least this would be confirmation.

What, you wanted that confirmed BEFORE Claire fights Alicia? :p:p:D:D:heh:

As they say Shiek, good things come to those that wait.

[Shiek927]

What, you wanted that confirmed BEFORE Claire fights Alicia? :p:p:D:D:heh:

As they say Shiek, good things come to those that wait.

Well, their are all different kinds of No.1 warriors, Teresa and Rosemary are leagues apart despite both getting the same rank.

Still, I think it's safe to say Miria and Claire would both get the No.1 rank if they were still part of the Organization.

[revan5]

Well, their are all different kinds of No.1 warriors, Teresa and Rosemary are leagues apart despite both getting the same rank.

Still, I think it's safe to say Miria and Claire would both get the No.1 rank if they were still part of the Organization.

Uh Shiek, here's the thing about ranks. Claymores don't share them. Just ask Noelle & Sophia, both of whom wanted the No 3 spot and were willing to cuss at and even fight one another for it. In fact, there's no record of there ever having been multiple fighters of the same rank at the same time. Someone's got to be the No 1. Is it Miria (as evaluated by Deneve) or our beloved 'lil renegade, Claire?

On the subject of ranks: Ghosts are different in their love of egalitarianism (aside from Miria's status as commander), something status-conscious warriors in the Organization's ranks do not share an interest in.

[Shiek927]

Uh Shiek, here's the thing about ranks. Claymores don't share them. Just ask Noelle & Sophia, both of whom wanted the No 3 spot and were willing to cuss at and even fight one another for it. In fact, there's no record of there ever having been multiple fighters of the same rank at the same time.

The Ghosts are different in their relative egalitarianism, something status-conscious warriors in the Organization's ranks do not share their love of.

*blink, when did I say that warriors share the same rank?

Maybe I worded it wrong :heh:. Miria and Claire are both No.1 capable. Of course the Org isn't gonna have two No.1 warriors, but they're both strong enough to get the title regardlessly.

[Addiction_2_Claymore]

is it just me or is this thread getting less and less active? usually i'd find pages of new stuff...

[haegar]

guess its becuase of the time... middle of the month, last chap has been discussed with more than 1000 posts, and another two weeks till spoilers appear... plus some of the discussion from here moved on to other threads ... hmmm but considering the cool chapter...guess you'r right ought to be more ..

[Nindel]

If the manga was weekly then they'd be alot more posts :(

[Negativedark]

Korinov and Cyclone are correct, it's the first page of Chapter 13: Teresa laments how she was sold by the people she trusted and lost her signature black hair and had no choice but to join them or become a begger. It's a very tragic opening.

Cyclone, it's the first page of 92 on OM.

(http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2494809#post2494809), Normal methods of recruiting from what I understand:

From what I understand, the normal methods of Claymore recruiting as are followed:

1) The children are outright kidnapped. Not like the parents can do anything about it.
2) They were sold into slavery(girls to the East, boys to the North) and/or the Organization, the former usually leads to the latter. The idea is probably that this will help get
money for the family, while the family rationalizes their actions by thinking their children will have a better life, learning how to help protect people by fighting Yoma and being "heroes". This method is probably liked a great deal by the Organization as said children already have an established hatred of humans without even having yoma-flesh in them yet. Biggest I can think of is Teresa.
3) The main method: Big Bad Yoma comes into town and singles out a family; usually kills all of them while leaving the youngest before a Claymore "miraculously" walks in and kills it, said child becomes a member for revenge. Town typically fears the child, believing they might be "tainted" in some way, further pushing the child to psychologically seperate themselves from normal humans. Biggest example I can think of is Priscilla, who was, at the time of being a warrior, still for all intents and purposes still a child.

These are what I believe to be the "normal" methods. Of course, their are exceptions: Claire joining of her own free-will, and Alicia and Beth who were asked for, though this is basically number 2. And of course, many people are exceptions. Priscilla and Jean both fought for humanity, Cynthia loved life and happiness etc etc.

When it comes to slavery, I don't know exactly why the genders go the way they are, but it is curious: Girls go to the East, where Staff HQ is located, and obviously all current warriors are women. Boys are sent to the North, which was ruled by Isley, a male, who was leader of his army of first-generation warriors who were all also Men. I refuse to believe this as mere coincidence.

This leads me to believe, at one time or another, their may have also been another Organization facility in the North alongside the one in the East which is now the main headquarters.

I'm not sure where you got some of the information about the Org's recruiting methods.
1- When have we ever heard anything about the org performing kidnappings? I don't recall that being mentioned even once in the manga. Also as I'll explain when I get to number 3 it's unessicary. And if they did perform kidnappings, then they wouldn't have bothered to ask Alicia and Beth's parents to hand them over. Not to mention if they got caught it would make it harder for them to operate, it's be a PR problem on par with is Ophilia's tendancys were normal.
2- I don't think that the parents are the ones selling the kids into the slave trade. It's also neve said who exactly sold Teresea into slavery. Only that she trusted them. Also she claimed her parents love lived on in her name. Also with the setting, I imagine that it's largely orphens who are grabbed by slavers. As to where they get the orphens from...
3- This however is cannon. In a lot of cultures an orphen was seen as an unwanted burden, and was the most likley to fall prey to bieng sold into slavery. And with the Yoma the Org can assure that their is no shortage of orphens. It also gives the girls a hatred of both Yoma and normal humans that can be used to alianate them.
Finally I don't know if any sort of organization up North to explain why the boys are shipped there. Rather the explination should be found in asking the question of why does anyone live in the North anyways. It seems to be cold year round, and fairly unpleasent. But if it has harvestable resources like lumber and mining, then that could explain everything. Both bieng a miner and a lumberjack are labor intensive and dangrous jobs. Factor in the climate and the man eating monsters, and life expectancy would probably suck. So a constant influx of new workers is needed.

[MisterJB]

If the manga was weekly then they'd be alot more posts :(

and a lot less quality.

[Awakened]

I think the boys are used to make yomas and the girls are turned into Claymores. Going from what Ruble said to Clare when she was with Jean.

[Fenrir_valindri]

I don't really think they would be taken north if they were used to make Yoma, especially since Isley ruled over the North during that time period.


I personally think the North just needs hard labor due to the climate and raw material, like Negativedark stated.

---

Also, I doubt Claymore would benefit at all by becoming weekly, the pacing would change completely, and we would have a lot less time to absorb the chapter and talk about specifics/theorize about the next chapter.

Sure, the month long wait sucks, but I welcome the month long wait if the quality of Claymore stays as high as it is.

[Negativedark]

I think the boys are used to make yomas and the girls are turned into Claymores. Going from what Ruble said to Clare when she was with Jean.

How did you reach that conclusion? Rubel just said that everybody knows that the boys get sent north and the girls east because the north and east are always short on manpower.

[Shiek927]

I'm not sure where you got some of the information about the Org's recruiting methods.
1- When have we ever heard anything about the org performing kidnappings? I don't recall that being mentioned even once in the manga. Also as I'll explain when I get to number 3 it's unessicary. And if they did perform kidnappings, then they wouldn't have bothered to ask Alicia and Beth's parents to hand them over. Not to mention if they got caught it would make it harder for them to operate, it's be a PR problem on par with is Ophilia's tendancys were normal.
2- I don't think that the parents are the ones selling the kids into the slave trade. It's also neve said who exactly sold Teresea into slavery. Only that she trusted them. Also she claimed her parents love lived on in her name. Also with the setting, I imagine that it's largely orphens who are grabbed by slavers. As to where they get the orphens from...
3- This however is cannon. In a lot of cultures an orphen was seen as an unwanted burden, and was the most likley to fall prey to bieng sold into slavery. And with the Yoma the Org can assure that their is no shortage of orphens. It also gives the girls a hatred of both Yoma and normal humans that can be used to alianate them.
Finally I don't know if any sort of organization up North to explain why the boys are shipped there. Rather the explination should be found in asking the question of why does anyone live in the North anyways. It seems to be cold year round, and fairly unpleasent. But if it has harvestable resources like lumber and mining, then that could explain everything. Both bieng a miner and a lumberjack are labor intensive and dangrous jobs. Factor in the climate and the man eating monsters, and life expectancy would probably suck. So a constant influx of new workers is needed.

The first one was a theory if anything else Negativedark :heh:. Among the things that happen through the Organization's methods, it wouldn't surprise me if they did that. Like I said, the parents can't do anything about it, and it's both easy and fast.

Why don't parents sell their kids? Negativedark, who do you honesty think Teresa trusted that ended up selling her? who? :rolleyes:

Just because her parents sold her, doesn't mean they didn't love her. It's like I said: They probably did it for the money out of desperation, and rationalized their thoughts by believing she would have a happy life by being a Claymore(of course, they know next to nothing about them). Of course, this doesn't excuse what Teresa had to go through and easily accounts for why she hates humans. After all,, from the child's perspective, how could your parents possibly do that to you?

-----

Yes, keep Claymore monthy. We have too much to talk about and the quality is too good to give up. The exhaustion in the middle of the month is no excuse.

Awakened, as for as we know, The Organization generates Yoma from nothing; the Yoma kill and use humans to create a disguise, but in their original form, they only look like human males, they never were.

Look at the fight with Clarice and Miata, that's how Yoma look like in their original form.

[Arturro]

Just because her parents sold her, doesn't mean they didn't love her. It's like I said: They probably did it for the money out of desperation, and rationalized their thoughts by believing she would have a happy life by being a Claymore(of course, they know next to nothing about them). Of course, this doesn't excuse what Teresa had to go through and easily accounts for why she hates humans. After all,, from the child's perspective, how could your parents possibly do that to you?


On Balkans, under Ottoman rule, parents sometimes sold their sons to Janissars. During famine periods caravans with boys to be Janissars, had to be heavily guarded, not to prevent boys from escaping, but to stop desperate parents trying to put their sons in such caravans. Being an elite warrior is much better than die from starvation. I'm not saying that parents likes to sell their children, just that they choosed lesser evil.

[FragrantFlora]

Yep! Probably thought and wanted Teresa to live a better life. Times were rough and they probably still are.

[Vinak]

On Balkans, under Ottoman rule, parents sometimes sold their sons to Jannissars. During famine periods caravans with boys to be Jannissars, had to be heavily guarded, not to prevent boys from escaping, but to stop desperate parents trying to put their sons in such caravans. Being an elite warrior is much better than die from starvation. I'm not saying that parents likes to sell their children, just that they choosed lesser evil.
Google has failed me....

I tried to do a google search to figure out what Jannissars were, and the very first link Google gave me pointed directly back to your comment. :twitch:


/facepalm

[Shiek927]

Yep! Probably thought and wanted Teresa to live a better life. Times were rough and they probably still are.

That's the ironic part; The parents believed being a Claymore would be a great thing, to become a hero and save humanity from Yoma. They obviously don't know their daughter isn't even going to be human anymore and they'll grow up hating them.

[Vinak]

you'd think they would know that though. the populations of every village we've seen so far had a pretty universal distrust of the Claymore soldiers.

[Shiek927]

you'd think they would know that though. the populations of every village we've seen so far had a pretty universal distrust of the Claymore soldiers.

Distrust yes, but it's better then selling their daughter into slavery :(

They must of really had no choice, and I don't think it's something that's uncommon either. Life is hard no matter what you are in the Claymore world.

Which is another thing; We've gotten names of so many different locations and regions on the Continent, but the world itself still has no name. Something Yagi should do next, since he's already given us a map.

[Arturro]

Google has failed me....

I tried to do a google search to figure out what Jannissars were, and the very first link Google gave me pointed directly back to your comment. :twitch:


/facepalm

OOPS my mistake, check it: Janissary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissary)

[Negativedark]

The first one was a theory if anything else Negativedark :heh:. Among the things that happen through the Organization's methods, it wouldn't surprise me if they did that. Like I said, the parents can't do anything about it, and it's both easy and fast.

Sokay, I do theories as well. But I don't think the Organization needs to bother with kidnapping. For one thing if they get caught it's trouble. For another, they can always send in a Yoma to make orphens.

Why don't parents sell their kids? Negativedark, who do you honesty think Teresa trusted that ended up selling her? who? :rolleyes:

Just because her parents sold her, doesn't mean they didn't love her. It's like I said: They probably did it for the money out of desperation, and rationalized their thoughts by believing she would have a happy life by being a Claymore(of course, they know next to nothing about them). Of course, this doesn't excuse what Teresa had to go through and easily accounts for why she hates humans. After all,, from the child's perspective, how could your parents possibly do that to you?

Aside from the fact that everyone seems to hate and fear Claymores? In this case their is a stigmata attached to bieng a Claymore, not something that parents would want their children to endure. As for Teresea, I don't know if it was her parents or not. The fact that she doesn't outright say it was her parents is what makes me think it wasn't, but thats just what I read into the subtext. And again why bother with the money to the parents if you can just send in a Yoma.

-----

Yes, keep Claymore monthy. We have too much to talk about and the quality is too good to give up. The exhaustion in the middle of the month is no excuse.

Awakened, as for as we know, The Organization generates Yoma from nothing; the Yoma kill and use humans to create a disguise, but in their original form, they only look like human males, they never were.

Look at the fight with Clarice and Miata, that's how Yoma look like in their original form.

Ever since we learned that the Org makes Yoma, I've envisioned them as bieng made via some sort of alchemacial process like Homoluci.

[Shiek927]

Sokay, I do theories as well. But I don't think the Organization needs to bother with kidnapping. For one thing if they get caught it's trouble. For another, they can always send in a Yoma to make orphens.

I ask again: What can their parents do about it?

I doubt it's something they do often; they have a stream of orphans and slaves to pick from, but how could they get in trouble? Even if people found out it was them, which I doubt will ever happen, they still need to rely on the Organization to kill Yoma.

It's just something nobody can do anything about, tragic as it is. Nobody will ever suspect the Organization, the order that protects humans, and it's not like they can do anything about it anyway.

The kidnappers don't even have to be them; they could be slave traders, which most likely work hand in hand with the Organization. Girls are sent to the East, the Organization pays handsomely, and it starts all over again.

Different people, same results.

Aside from the fact that everyone seems to hate and fear Claymores? In this case their is a stigmata attached to bieng a Claymore, not something that parents would want their children to endure. As for Teresea, I don't know if it was her parents or not. The fact that she doesn't outright say it was her parents is what makes me think it wasn't, but thats just what I read into the subtext. And again why bother with the money to the parents if you can just send in a Yoma.

Obviously, sometimes, as with Alicia and Beth, the Organization are becoming more and more selective of which children they pick. How or why depends on the situation, but if a family is desperate enough to sell their child, and the fee is handsome enough, why go through the trouble of sending a Yoma and a Claymore when you can just take the easy way and get someone like that? Even better; the child will probably already hate humans because mommy and daddy gave them away, better for them.

Desperate times come for desperate measures Negativedark. I see no reason to doubt that families would go as far as to sell their child to them. Claymores may be hated, but it's better then selling their child into slavery and the thought of doing something good, despite being hated for it, probably helps them rationalize their actions.

[FragrantFlora]

Which is another thing; We've gotten names of so many different locations and regions on the Continent, but the world itself still has no name. Something Yagi should do next, since he's already given us a map.

Wonder what the name of the Claymore world should be...

Asides from that, he should give us a map showing which Claymores guard which areas. That would be nice :)

[iLney]

Leesbo Land maybe?

[Shiek927]

Leesbo Land maybe?

If you're going to be sarcastic, mind trying working on your spelling? :rolleyes::heh:

[FragrantFlora]

Leesbo Land maybe?

Nah. Don't like it :heh: Hopefully we'll also be getting more side stories on our characters :)

[iLney]

Lizbolaz maybe?

[FragrantFlora]

Lizbolaz maybe?

Hahaha! Where are you getting these names from? :heh:

[Shiek927]

Lizbolaz maybe?

Sounds like the name of a country :heh:

(I'm thinking of Lisbon :heh:0

[FragrantFlora]

First thing I thought of when I heard it was Michael Jackson's Neverland...weird :heh:

[iLney]

I'm inspired by the... uhm... theme.

[Negativedark]

I ask again: What can their parents do about it?

I doubt it's something they do often; they have a stream of orphans and slaves to pick from, but how could they get in trouble? Even if people found out it was them, which I doubt will ever happen, they still need to rely on the Organization to kill Yoma.

It's just something nobody can do anything about, tragic as it is. Nobody will ever suspect the Organization, the order that protects humans, and it's not like they can do anything about it anyway.
The kidnappers don't even have to be them; they could be slave traders, which most likely work hand in hand with the Organization. Girls are sent to the East, the Organization pays handsomely, and it starts all over again.

Different people, same results.

If it's not the org directly, then their isn't any problem. But the org doing so directly is a different matter, especialy if they get caught. The org isn't to well liked and if people start to think too hard on things they might start investigating the org. While what they can do is limited, if someone else notices that there are no records of the Org or Yoma before a hundred years ago like Miria did... Also a Claymore who was kidnapped from their parents by the org is going to be even more of a troublemaker than usual, and they'll really resent the org.


Obviously, sometimes, as with Alicia and Beth, the Organization are becoming more and more selective of which children they pick. How or why depends on the situation, but if a family is desperate enough to sell their child, and the fee is handsome enough, why go through the trouble of sending a Yoma and a Claymore when you can just take the easy way and get someone like that? Even better; the child will probably already hate humans because mommy and daddy gave them away, better for them.

Desperate times come for desperate measures Negativedark. I see no reason to doubt that families would go as far as to sell their child to them. Claymores may be hated, but it's better then selling their child into slavery and the thought of doing something good, despite being hated for it, probably helps them rationalize their actions.

Well in Alicia and Beth's case the Org needed twin girls, something that doesn't happen a whole huge amount of the time. The biggest problem with buying directly from the parents is what happens if they approach someone and they don't want to sell? If the Org sends Yoma then it'll look suspicious. Again, we have been shown that in this setting, Claymores are not considered a good thing to be by most of the people, so a parent is not going to rationalize that they are giving their child a better life by sending them to become one.

[Cyclone]

Also a Claymore who was kidnapped from their parents by the org is going to be even more of a troublemaker than usual, and they'll really resent the org.

Oh no! Not resentment! Anything but that! Whatever shall the Organization do?!? Please, anything but being resented - it could hurt their feelings! :rolleyes:

[Shiek927]

If it's not the org directly, then their isn't any problem. But the org doing so directly is a different matter, especialy if they get caught. The org isn't to well liked and if people start to think too hard on things they might start investigating the org. While what they can do is limited, if someone else notices that there are no records of the Org or Yoma before a hundred years ago like Miria did... Also a Claymore who was kidnapped from their parents by the org is going to be even more of a troublemaker than usual, and they'll really resent the org.


Cyclone pretty much summed up thoughts Negative dark :heh:

I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble believing how the Organization could ever be in any sort of danger in the extremely off-chance(because I have trouble people figuring out believing it was them) they are caught.

The Organization has been around for a hundred years or so like you said, and people on the island have sort of accepted them as a necessary force. Obviousy they don't know the threat is coming from them, but humanity feels it needs to depend on them.

So a angry parent finds out his child was taken from him to Staff; what can he do? create a riot? Angrily pound on the Org'd doors?

They have ways of shutting people up; the same way they have of getting rid of warriors who become too smart for their own good. If the Organization is good at something, it's "plugging up leaks".

Rebellious warriors are one thing, but angry parents? I can't see them, tragically, being capable. Even if they resent the Organization, what good will that do? They'll keep sending out Yoma and keep making silver-eyed slayers to kill them and protect humans. The parent probably won't even be able to make a small mob because most humans will probably say it was necessary; one more Claymore to help them.

That's the funny, ironic, and tragic part of humans in the Claymore world: They need and depend on Claymores, but when they don't need them, they hate and despise them.

Well in Alicia and Beth's case the Org needed twin girls, something that doesn't happen a whole huge amount of the time. The biggest problem with buying directly from the parents is what happens if they approach someone and they don't want to sell? If the Org sends Yoma then it'll look suspicious. Again, we have been shown that in this setting, Claymores are not considered a good thing to be by most of the people, so a parent is not going to rationalize that they are giving their child a better life by sending them to become one.

It once again comes back to the same old thing: The money.

The right amount can convince anybody of anything, it's a tragic downside of humanity. I don't want to say everybody can be bought, but the right needy family with twins can be played the right way. When it comes down it and they need the money....

It sounds cruel, but it something I can't see as impossible. Money changes the thinking of people. Just because a person hates or fears Claymores, doesn't mean they don't depend on them, like I said before. It's something they'll feel has to be done. After all, from the parents perspective, who cares if humans hate Claymores? The Organization has fortunes at their disposal, so they'll think the girls will live a happy rich life. Humans just don't know enough about Claymores, and a possible fortune changes their thinking even further

And if a family say's No above all else? so what? Send a Yoma and kill the family. You're giving humanity, unfortunately, too much credit Negativedark. People aren't clever enough to suspect the Orgnanization, the benefactors of humanity for a 100 years. Humans in this world are weak and defenseless; they depend on Claymores and hate them all the same.

Unfortunately, for both your arguing points, you give humans too much credit. It stinks, but that's the kind of people they are in that world, and why the Organization has so much ease in controlling the populace.

[Awakened]

The Org does not need to kidnap any one. They can buy the Child, just like they did with the twins.

Its in the interest of the Org to pretend to be the allies of the humans. They can do whatever they want, but they seem to be going to great lengths to pretend to care for the humans. Why would they risk there reputation to kidnap someone when they can just send a yuma to the village and kill the child parents?

They have so many options that they can use to get a child without turning the populations against them. Its make no sense to me for the Org to be hiding in the shadow trying to steal someone.

The Org can offer someone so much money that it would be hard to resist. They can even get relatives to do the job for them, why risk it?

Teresa was sentence to death for killing bandits. If the Org did not value there reputation, why go to such great length to maintain it??????

[Fenrir_valindri]

I have a feeling that the hunt for Teresa had more to do with the fact she broke one of the Organizations rules then any actual damage to their reputation with the public.

They want their experiments to be obedient and loyal, not independent and willful.

[haegar]

yeah I'd think so too. The org couldn't afford to have their most powerful warrior go on a rampage -not because of what people think,but rather because of setting an example to the other claymores: They are controlled in part through "naturalizing" the order of things, claymores take the yoma for granted as evil, take the people for granted as not liking them and take it for granted that breaking the rules has consequences. At least, that is the way the org wants it. So if a Claymore slays some bandits, putting her down is not to "protect" other humans she might attack, but rather to "enforce" the unchallenged authority of the MIBS over the claymores life and death.

On shieks notion of the org being good at plugging leaks: Actually they are quite good at it, considering it is a skill they honed for about a century....on that matter... I'm getting kind of curious about how long rubel will be able to keep up his cover. I just reread the last ten or so chapters (once again:D) and I noticed that the others "kept him out of the loop" on the matter of the new batch of feeders going for riful. Now, did they do that because he was away at the time? or did they do that because they are suspicious of him being the only handler out of three that returned from the search for renee?...

Things might develop a bit more quickly if the ORG forces rubel's hand by "decloaking him" - there would be no further reason for him to refrain himself to "watching from the sidelines" how the org destroys itself. So he might get "pro-active" - which might turn out quite interesting :D

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

I think the boys are used to make yomas and the girls are turned into Claymores. Going from what Ruble said to Clare when she was with Jean.

So do you think the yoma making facility is in north??

[haegar]

We should also consider the option that yoma are made off the island, and then transported there, perhaps by ship, maybe in some kind of infant form? Pure speuclation of course, but just as good as any other since we just don't know enough. Considering Isley had the north in his grasp I'd consider it rather unlikely though.

It would be most logical to assume that the facilty is in the east, if it is on the island, since that is the orgs territory isn't it?! what bothers me though is that miria spent a lot of time exploring the island in her quest for knoweldge about the org, and she did not find it. Galatea doesn't seem to no anything about it. Which makes you think... shouldn't a faciltiy where yoma are produced in the dozens at the least somehow be noticable to sensors like galatea? I think the facility won't be so easy to find, it would solve that dilemma of Miria and the ghosts way to quickly if it was just waiting to be found on the island ...

[irvinethearcher]

I think that yoma are actually living on the mainland and the org did not genetically engineer them because i hope that claymore will not become scifi.
Like we used skin of the white shark for air plains the org used the yoma for her weapon research. They stole it from nature i think and hope.

[Awakened]

So do you think the yoma making facility is in north??

yes.
We know girls are turned into Claymores, and the Org make Yomas. So I'm assuming that boys are used to make Yomas. Ruble said that there is always a shortage of boys and girls.

[revan5]

yes.
We know girls are turned into Claymores, and the Org make Yomas. So I'm assuming that boys are used to make Yomas. Ruble said that there is always a shortage of boys and girls.

I got the impression that they kidnapped the boys to the north, where they sent them off to the mainland to fight the Dragonkin. Essentially the boys were made into claymores who got no yoki training and then were told to fight the big, bad Dragonkin. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

To me it makes more sense, as otherwise it becomes hard to figure out how the Org can have so many yoma when there just isn't the human population to supply the necessary bodies. Let's face it, this takes place in the medieval period, which was notorious for small population sizes and various plagues wiping the population out every so often.

Having the Org create yoma in order to create female claymores and male anti-Dragonkin hybrids (soon to be one-way Awakened beings) makes sense. It doesn't drain the human population as much while allowing the Org to systematically control the release of yoma onto the island irrespective of the human population's numbers. In other words, that would make yoma the perfect laboratory tools!

[Awakened]

I got the impression that they kidnapped the boys to the north, where they sent them off to the mainland to fight the Dragonkin. Essentially the boys were made into claymores who got no yoki training and then were told to fight the big, bad Dragonkin. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

To me it makes more sense, as otherwise it becomes hard to figure out how the Org can have so many yoma when there just isn't the human population to supply the necessary bodies. Let's face it, this takes place in the medieval period, which was notorious for small population sizes and various plagues wiping the population out every so often.

Having the Org create yoma in order to create female claymores and male anti-Dragonkin hybrids (soon to be one-way Awakened beings) makes sense. It doesn't drain the human population as much while allowing the Org to systematically control the release of yoma onto the island irrespective of the human population's numbers. In other words, that would make yoma the perfect laboratory tools!

Are you saying the Org creates Yoma, male and female Claymores all from the Island population?

[revan5]

Are you saying the Org creates Yoma, male and female Claymores all from the Island population?

What I'm saying is they create yoma without any need to draw upon the island's population, while they then use those yoma and a constant supply of boys & girls from the Island to help fuel both their war on the mainland as well as fill their Claymore ranks and experiments (say the Abyss Feeders for instance!).

The yoma, I think, are not related to humans. As Miria says, they are created "within" the Organization. To have to require human parts in order to make them seems ridiculous, as the Org would've wiped out the human population creating yoma and then setting them against the same population they just fleeced of valuable manpower in order to create said yoma!

I'm arguing, Awakened, that the numbers don't work out for anything other than creating male and female claymores. Using humans to create yoma would've exhausted the population base ages ago. Of that you can be fairly sure...:)

[Vinak]

I got the impression that they kidnapped the boys to the north, where they sent them off to the mainland to fight the Dragonkin. Essentially the boys were made into claymores who got no yoki training and then were told to fight the big, bad Dragonkin. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

To me it makes more sense, as otherwise it becomes hard to figure out how the Org can have so many yoma when there just isn't the human population to supply the necessary bodies. Let's face it, this takes place in the medieval period, which was notorious for small population sizes and various plagues wiping the population out every so often.

Having the Org create yoma in order to create female claymores and male anti-Dragonkin hybrids (soon to be one-way Awakened beings) makes sense. It doesn't drain the human population as much while allowing the Org to systematically control the release of yoma onto the island irrespective of the human population's numbers. In other words, that would make yoma the perfect laboratory tools!

actually their are studies out there that show as poverty increases and human life expectancy decrease, birth rates rise.

this was also true in the middle ages according to old census reports.


Using our own country's experience to understand rapid population growth in the third world, where poverty is more extreme and widespread, we can now extend our hypothesis concerning the link between hunger and high fertility rates: both persist where societies deny security and opportunity to the majority of their citizens-where infant-mortality rates are high and adequate land, jobs, education, health care, and old-age security are beyond the reach of most people, and where there are few opportunities for women to work outside the home.

Without resources to secure their future, people can rely only on their own families. Thus, when poor parents have lots of children, they are making a rational calculus for survival. High birth rates reflect people's defensive reaction against enforced poverty. For those living at the margin of survival, children provide labor to augment meager family income. In Bangladesh, one study showed that even by the age of six a boy provides labor and/or income for the family. By the age of twelve, at the latest, he contributes more than he consumeshttp://www.globalissues.org/article/206/poverty-and-population-growth-lessons-from-our-own-past
more sources are available of course.

with the constant threat of Yoma, Families are essentially being encouraged to produce more offspring.

[revan5]

actually their are studies out there that show as poverty increases and human life expectancy decrease, birth rates rise.

this was also true in the middle ages according to old census reports.

http://www.globalissues.org/article/206/poverty-and-population-growth-lessons-from-our-own-past
more sources are available of course.

with the constant threat of Yoma, Families are essentially being encouraged to produce more offspring.

Yes, but the life expectancy was much lower back in those days. As low as 20-30 years of age, primarily because many if not most children didn't even make it to adulthood. Add in a predator of humans like yoma in Claymore and the math gets dicey.

I'd just like to point out the evidence you point out does not apply to the medieval period. Just take a look at the explosion in population since 1800 and you'll understand what I mean. Without modern medicine to increase life expectancy, the Claymore Island's population is going to be staying pretty stable.

My evidence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Population_curve.svg

You'll notice that the medieval period did not see an enormous run-up in population. Matter of fact, after the Black Death of 1347-1348, it took until 1500 for parts of Europe to again reach those levels of population! Much like the Black Death, the destruction of the North by Isley's forces resembles this population decimation. Far from thriving, this Island has been experiencing the equivalent of not one but two outbreaks of Bubonic Plague with the latest being the collateral damage resulting from the Isley/Abyss Feeder fights.

As I said previous, the evidence you provided only applies to the modern era. This being the medieval period, I would not expect the numbers to be there to support an enormous "laboratory" program of any kind. It's probably a good reason why there are only 47 Claymores at any one time, and at most several hundred trainees.

[Ryus]

Yes, but the life expectancy was much lower back in those days. As low as 20-30 years of age, primarily because many if not most children didn't even make it to adulthood. Add in a predator of humans like yoma in Claymore and the math gets dicey.

I'd just like to point out the evidence you point out does not apply to the medieval period. Just take a look at the explosion in population since 1800 and you'll understand what I mean. Without modern medicine to increase life expectancy, the Claymore Island's population is going to be staying pretty stable.

My evidence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Population_curve.svg

You'll notice that the medieval period did not see an enormous run-up in population. Matter of fact, after the Black Death of 1347-1348, it took until 1500 for parts of Europe to again reach those levels of population! Much like the Black Death, the destruction of the North by Isley's forces resembles this population decimation. Far from thriving, this Island has been experiencing the equivalent of not one but two outbreaks of Bubonic Plague with the latest being the collateral damage resulting from the Isley/Abyss Feeder fights.

As I said previous, the evidence you provided only applies to the modern era. This being the medieval period, I would not expect the numbers to be there to support an enormous "laboratory" program of any kind. It's probably a good reason why there are only 47 Claymores at any one time, and at most several hundred trainees.

:rolleyes: I've just had a week of power outages and RL stuff that kept me away... and we're still on this subject... :heh:

Well, I can prove that there must be some form of modern medicine on the island. I know... :twitch: ....bold claim right...

However it isn't, since I've yet to see a single villager in Claymore with bad teeth. :p

[Ryus]

yes.
We know girls are turned into Claymores, and the Org make Yomas. So I'm assuming that boys are used to make Yomas. Ruble said that there is always a shortage of boys and girls.

I really like that idea (been debating that myself for some time now). However where are the yoma made now? After all the north has been abandoned? So are there no new yoma on the island? or has this "factory" just moved?

[Shiek927]

I really like that idea (been debating that myself for some time now). However where are the yoma made now? After all the north has been abandoned? So are there no new yoma on the island? or has this "factory" just moved?

No reason to presume that Yoma aren't made anymore; this facility was probably just moved to a different location.

I'm still staying by my idea however that Yoma aren't created from anything: Yoma take the form of their victims, they aren't made from boys or anything, they just look like men.

Clarice and Miata fought a few in their natural form.

I've just had a week of power outages and RL stuff that kept me away... and we're still on this subject...

Well, I can prove that there must be some form of modern medicine on the island. I know... ....bold claim right...

However it isn't, since I've yet to see a single villager in Claymore with bad teeth.

Which goes back to the old saying that Claymore is a "medieval Matrix". They aren't too far ahead,
but their more advanced in some ways then real people were in their timeperiod.

We actually moved subjects since then, but we eventually came back when you showed up. Irony :heh:

[Ryus]

We actually moved subjects since then, but we eventually came back when you showed up. Irony :heh:

:eyespin: The twist and turns of debates. Some times entire arguments are just ignored while people debate other topics and other times a subject won't die and/or keeps popping up. :eyespin:

Guess I have some catching up to do... on second thought I'm too lazy. I'll just pretend I haven't been away and hope no one complains that I'm bring up a previously debated point. :p

[Shiek927]

:eyespin: The twist and turns of debates. Some times entire arguments are just ignored while people debate other topics and other times a subject won't die and/or keeps popping up. :eyespin:

Guess I have some catching up to do... on second thought I'm too lazy. I'll just pretend I haven't been away and hope no one complains that I'm bring up a previously debated point. :p

No one will complain; in fact, people will completely forget the first discussion was ever made at all and will make an entirely new one.

It's how we pass the month: everyone here has a short memory :heh::heh::heh:

[Ryus]

No one will complain; in fact, people will completely forget the first discussion was ever made at all and will make an entirely new one.

It's how we pass the month: everyone here has a short memory :heh::heh::heh:

I agree with that! Everyone here can be so forgetful!

Anyways new topic... Dentistry in Claymore :p

Oh, wait a minute... didn't someone bring this up just a bit ago. I can't remember. :thinker: Oh wait a moment, it was me just a few posts ago... :p

Poll:
So what character would you all most like to see with braces?
A) Young Clare
B) Young Raki
C) Young Girl from Chapter 41 (Theorized as a young Dietrich many times)
D) Riful
E) Young Teresa
F) Priscilla
G) A Yoma
H) Rubel
I) Abyssal Feeder
J) Other (except Helen, since she eats too many apples to need a dentist)

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

I agree with that! Everyone here can be so forgetful!

Anyways new topic... Dentistry in Claymore :p

Oh, wait a minute... didn't someone bring this up just a bit ago. I can't remember. :thinker: Oh wait a moment, it was me just a few posts ago... :p

Poll:
So what character would you all most like to see with braces?
A) Young Clare
B) Young Raki
C) Young Girl from Chapter 41 (Theorized as a young Dietrich many times)
D) Riful
E) Young Teresa
F) Priscilla
G) A Yoma
H) Rubel
I) Abyssal Feeder
J) Other (except Helen, since she eats too many apples to need a dentist)

I go with Abyssl feeders...their teeths are protruded out a bit too much...:heh:

And Young Girl from Chapter 41 (Theorized as a young Dietrich many times) will also do...
Does Rubel even have teeth...?:confused: never seen them tho...:heh::heh:

[Ryus]

Does Rubel even have teeth...?:confused: never seen them tho...:heh::heh:

You never see much of his teeth but his mouth has opened, a bit, for time to time. Which is why seeing braces in those few rare panels would be SO funny! :p

[romari]

You never see his mouth but he sure talks a lot...must be because ppl with their mouth shut look cooler :D

[Ryus]

You never see his mouth but he sure talks a lot...must be because ppl with their mouth shut look cooler :D

Sorry but your wrong he has opened his moth before, if ever so slightly.

Chapter 85, page 1, bottom left panel.

I'm sure there is more times then just that one time when you see inside his mouth though.

[Shiek927]

I agree with that! Everyone here can be so forgetful!

Anyways new topic... Dentistry in Claymore :p

Oh, wait a minute... didn't someone bring this up just a bit ago. I can't remember. :thinker: Oh wait a moment, it was me just a few posts ago... :p

Poll:
So what character would you all most like to see with braces?
A) Young Clare
B) Young Raki
C) Young Girl from Chapter 41 (Theorized as a young Dietrich many times)
D) Riful
E) Young Teresa
F) Priscilla
G) A Yoma
H) Rubel
I) Abyssal Feeder
J) Other (except Helen, since she eats too many apples to need a dentist)

Definitely C), young Dietrich; She's got the fruffy hair, freckles...I'm surprised she wasn't wearing braces :heh:

[haegar]

she is... its the magical ivisible braces of the invisible tracker :D

where did that notion of braces come from anyways? from the ABs sharp and crooked teath or what?

[shogun01]

You never see much of his teeth but his mouth has opened, a bit, for time to time. Which is why seeing braces in those few rare panels would be SO funny! :p

**Pictures Rubel smiling with perfectly straight and shiny teeth**

That would be an interesting picture for the image thread right there. :D

[Ryus]

she is... its the magical ivisible braces of the invisible tracker :D

where did that notion of braces come from anyways? from the ABs sharp and crooked teath or what?

I commented that we have yet to see a villager with bad teeth... some thing you'd expect to see in a medieval village. Therefore modern medicine, to a small degree, is on the island.

[Shiek927]

I commented that we have yet to see a villager with bad teeth... some thing you'd expect to see in a medieval village. Therefore modern medicine, to a small degree, is on the island.

Well, I doubt they have running water or any modern miracles...

Yet another thing that Yagi needs to address in the future: how far along are they?
They know the world is round(Claire called it a globe), they still use swords and other medieval whatnot, but when it comes to health and other domestic stuff, they're ahead.

[irvinethearcher]

About that "Globe" thing i wouldn't go that far, it is miss translation. Someone in another thread who could speak japanese said this.

[Shiek927]

About that "Globe" thing i wouldn't go that far, it is miss translation. Someone in another thread who could speak japanese said this.

I don't know.....The Globe part came from shrimpy's translations, and I love and trust his translations far more then I do Cnets.

Since he's gone, I guess I have to stick with gernot.

[Arturro]

As I mentioned already - they may be advanced in medicine and biotechnology while backwarded in other aspects. For example Mayans in XVI century doesn't know iron, but their mathematic was so good, that we surpassed them only thanks to computers. During medieval ages ironworks were much more advanced in China than in Europe, while European knowledge about surgery was way above Chinese.

[FragrantFlora]

I agree with that! Everyone here can be so forgetful!

Anyways new topic... Dentistry in Claymore :p

Oh, wait a minute... didn't someone bring this up just a bit ago. I can't remember. :thinker: Oh wait a moment, it was me just a few posts ago... :p

Poll:
So what character would you all most like to see with braces?
A) Young Clare
B) Young Raki
C) Young Girl from Chapter 41 (Theorized as a young Dietrich many times)
D) Riful
E) Young Teresa
F) Priscilla
G) A Yoma
H) Rubel
I) Abyssal Feeder
J) Other (except Helen, since she eats too many apples to need a dentist)

I honestly had a slight fear of people with braces when I was little :(

I vote for Rubel :)

[Shiek927]

As I mentioned already - they may be advanced in medicine and biotechnology while backwarded in other aspects. For example Mayans in XVI century doesn't know iron, but their mathematic was so good, that we surpassed them only thanks to computers. During medieval ages ironworks were much more advanced in China than in Europe, while European knowledge about surgery was way above Chinese.

Still would love to find out the information from Yagi - a book where we learn more about humans on the continent and how they live day-by-day, to finally answer all the riddles. I'd like to see that much more then any old "databook".

[Cyclone]

I don't know.....The Globe part came from shrimpy's translations, and I love and trust his translations far more then I do Cnets.

Since he's gone, I guess I have to stick with gernot.

I remember this discusion - no one said "globe". The meaning in the original was something like "from all around" or "the entire world" or something of that sort and the translator choose to translate with the normally equivalent expression "around the globe" forgetting the medival nature Claymore. Rest assured, there was no mention of round planets or any Copernican theory in the original.

Get me a chapter and page number and I'll translate it *again* if you like.

(aas for best translators - 10sigh did probably the best job on the whole)

[Shiek927]

I remember this discusion - no one said "globe". The meaning in the original was something like "from all around" or "the entire world" or something of that sort and the translator choose to translate with the normally equivalent expression "around the globe" forgetting the medival nature Claymore. Rest assured, there was no mention of round planets or any Copernican theory in the original.

Get me a chapter and page number and I'll translate it *again* if you like.

(aas for best translators - 10sigh did probably the best job on the whole)

Wasn't I the one who started the darn discussion in the first place? :heh: I think it was one of the first things I brought up when I joined back in May.

It's not a big deal really; With the way the Claymore world is advanced in some ways, it wouldn't surprise me if they knew the world isn't flat. If they DO know that however, it's something that should be acknowledged.

10sign? Weird, his name isn't ringing any bells. The only ones I really know are Cnets, Shrimpy, and Gernot now, probably because their's are in english.

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

10sigh's not doing translations anymore...back before chapter 79 (he stoped at chapter 78 and did the 4 extra scenes)....his translations were the best...i think even onemanga has his scanlations online....

[Ryuken]

I remember this one too, but I don't think it's something to give too much concern.:)

[camilla]

Poll:
So what character would you all most like to see with braces?
A) Young Clare
B) Young Raki
C) Young Girl from Chapter 41 (Theorized as a young Dietrich many times)
D) Riful
E) Young Teresa
F) Priscilla
G) A Yoma
H) Rubel
I) Abyssal Feeder
J) Other (except Helen, since she eats too many apples to need a dentist)

Why not Helen? Apples help but her teeth are far from being perfect. :p

Chapter 93
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1287/17cgwu.jpg

Chapter 80
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9695/11vc.jpg

[Ryus]

Why not Helen? Apples help but her teeth are far from being perfect. :p

Chapter 93
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1287/17cgwu.jpg

Chapter 80
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9695/11vc.jpg

An apple a day keeps the doctor away! :p

Dentists are a kind of doctor... Right? :confused:

As to the teeth... I sure the organization just didn't pay for her braces. Cheap bastards! You see Helen was taken in before her family payed for the braces. :p

[MisterJB]

As to the teeth... I sure the organization just didn't pay for her braces. Cheap bastards! You see Helen was taken in before her family payed for the braces. :p

her father was a bandit.:heh: I don't think he cared about braces.:heh:

[Ryus]

her father was a bandit.:heh: I don't think he cared about braces.:heh:

:confused: He was... :confused:

But a girl with pointy teeth won't sell for as much, he should have known better and fixed them. :p

I had a friend who had a girlfriend with pointy teeth... lets just say there was blood and a breakup... :uhoh: and a pregnancy... but he didn't know that until after the blood and teeth where came together, which clearly caused the break up.

He now swears by girls with good teeth.

BTW that last part is not a joke but a true story.

[MisterJB]

:confused: He was... :confused:



yes, here is the proof

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2220863&postcount=744

[Ryus]

yes, here is the proof

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2220863&postcount=744

:p Funny

However I sure the reason why he attacked the village was to afford the braces. :p

So it's Clare's and Teresa's fault for Helen's bad teeth... I wonder how Helen will react when she finds that out... "Clare your mother figure killed my daddy... I've come for your head!"

[romari]

Its just the angle :p
In a certain angle (and light conditions) obama looks like bush :p

[irvinethearcher]

What i thought about is the meaning of the chapter 92.
We now know that rafaella did not gave clare her memories so that she would protect the newborn entity or gain an advantage from that. She simply wanted to help her and gave her sad life at least some meaning at the end, so i think.
But why had clare to fight to gain them? And why had she to risk her life?
Perhaps it was because of her own memories from which rafaella was reconstructed?
When clare met her she was hostile to her and so she had to fight her in her dream too? But perhaps this fight simply was about being worthy of her memories.
After all she gave clare everything she possessed. What do you think about it?

[MisterJB]

But perhaps this fight simply was about being worthy of her memories.


Well, I don't think that Raphaela would just give everything that she was to the first Claymore that appeared.
It was probrably to see if she was worthy.

I'm more interested in the mistake she mentioned.

[Shiek927]

Its just the angle :p
In a certain angle (and light conditions) obama looks like bush :p

Honestly, it would make a pretty amazing twist if Helen's father really was that Bandit.

I'm pretty sure that's not Yagi's intention but we can dream, right? :heh:

[FragrantFlora]

Dietrich and Helen both have look alikes in the manga. Who knows... Yagi does plan to give us a surprise :heh:

[whitepearl]

Honestly, it would make a pretty amazing twist if Helen's father really was that Bandit.

I'm pretty sure that's not Yagi's intention but we can dream, right? :heh:

I did notice how the Bandit leader and Helen do have a slight resemblance :heh::heh:

I like where the story is headed and I can't wait for the next chapter. :cool:

[MisterJB]

Its just the angle :p
In a certain angle (and light conditions) obama looks like bush :p

those images are not the only ones.


http://i28.tinypic.com/smdfth.png

http://i25.tinypic.com/2dt2gs6.png

It would be very cool if that guy really was Helen's father. That way, Clare's mother would have been the one who murdered him. That could create some tension between Clare and Helen.
It would certainly give us some interesting chapters. Frankly, the ABs are getting kinda of boring now that only two cool ABs remain.

[Negativedark]

Well considering the type of person the bandit was and his order to "round up the women" there's a good chance Helen's mom would be glad he was dead. The only reason he and his gang didn't rape Teresea was because of whatever the hell is wrong with a Claymores torso.

[MisterJB]

That would be a believable backstory. This dude raped some random women in some random town. That woman gave birth to Helen and since she was the fruit of a rape, Helen's mother sold or gave her to the Organization.

I still think some conflict amongst the Ghosts would be interesting.

[Shiek927]

That would be a believable backstory. This dude raped some random women in some random town. That woman gave birth to Helen and since she was the fruit of a rape, Helen's mother sold or gave her to the Organization.

I still think some conflict amongst the Ghosts would be interesting.

I would just find it amazing how this links with everything:

Teresa saved Claire by killing the Bandit who gave birth to Helen who eventually became a Claymore. Teresa was killed Priscilla; Claire subsequently put Teresa inside of her too become a Claymore and gain revenge. She met both the daughter of her savior's potential rapist Helen, who ironically and unknowingly, ends up being one of her closest "friends" and Raki, her new raison d'etre....who now travels with Priscilla of all people and now, both of them are looking for Claire.

Is their anything I'm missing? :heh:

....Hmm....I think I abused the bold font.

[Addiction_2_Claymore]

well the bandit didn't give birth to Helen. he was a GUY. haha i don't believe he had a wife. so probably he raped Helen's mother, who gave birth to her in the end. so won't Helen still hate her father for raping her mom?

[Shiek927]

well the bandit didn't give birth to Helen. he was a GUY. haha i don't believe he had a wife. so probably he raped Helen's mother, who gave birth to her in the end. so won't Helen still hate her father for raping her mom?

....................:heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh: :heh::heh::heh::heh:

:heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh: :heh::heh:

:heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh: :heh::heh:

Sorry for the emocon overload, I can't believe I wrote it like that(AnimeSuki really needs a better laughing smilie, honestly).

Well, you know what I meant; Even if he didn't actually give birth, he was responsible for starting the process, so it's like saying the same thing :p

[Ryuken]

I wonder why I don't ever see Deneve like that. Considering she is so close to Hellen.:)

[irvinethearcher]

Well, I don't think that Raphaela would just give everything that she was to the first Claymore that appeared.
It was probrably to see if she was worthy.

I'm more interested in the mistake she mentioned.

Perhaps you are right and sometimes the simplest things are the best but somehow i think it was perhaps clare herself who invented the fight with her own subconscious memory. Because clare met her in a hostile mood and clare had always to prove something to herself. Remember the fight against ophelia. Instead of going straight up for the head she followed the tail and did not broke the rule of ophelia's "game" which made even ophelia wonder herself :heh:
But probably you are right and much more important is the mistake clare makes.
Still there is not everything solved about this.
Raphaella said that clare was the harsh intruder this sounds strange to me. How can someone like clare intrude the merged consciousness of this mighty new entity by only making a skin deep scan? If it was not rafaella who called her, i am still asking me who really intruded rafaella's consciousness that harsh and who really forced clare to go to her?
Okay, when clare made the first scan she had a short and slight headache. So perhaps this scan was strong enough. But why was raciella not really responding to renee's far more in depth scan? Was it because renee did not know rafaella from the past?
Perhaps i hear the trees whisper here but who knows ...

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

What i thought about is the meaning of the chapter 92.
We now know that rafaella did not gave clare her memories so that she would protect the newborn entity or gain an advantage from that. She simply wanted to help her and gave her sad life at least some meaning at the end, so i think.
But why had clare to fight to gain them? And why had she to risk her life?
Perhaps it was because of her own memories from which rafaella was reconstructed?
When clare met her she was hostile to her and so she had to fight her in her dream too? But perhaps this fight simply was about being worthy of her memories.
After all she gave clare everything she possessed. What do you think about it?

I have another view on that...she gave off her emotions so that she won't become a monter....although her body will awaken without her emotions she won't have any ability to needlessly go on a rampage killing innocent people...I do agree the fight was to test clare being worthy to take all her memories and emotions (because I think to carry such a thing like emotions and memories you need to have a strong will so that you can control all those emotions to stay sane) so maybe it was also to test clare's will as well....

I wonder why I don't ever see Deneve like that. Considering she is so close to Hellen.:)

Deneve is a stoic...maybe she does her evil laugh when she's all alone....Ehahahha...like that :heh::heh:

[irvinethearcher]

Indeed this is another possibility. With giving clare all her emotions she prevented a new monstrosity from being born. Wow, good point!

[romari]

I think the resemblance of some characters is due to mangaka needs to create a lot of characters with the same style and some will end similar even if wasn't his intention....

But one thing is certain...Helen is a bandit :D

[clarakiss~]

the resemblance of characters doesn't mean they're related. like helen and the bandit. for instance, the older raki and raphaela look quite alike but that doesn't mean their actually related at all.

maybe it's because it is much more convenient to draw characters much faster that way.

[Ryus]

the resemblance of characters doesn't mean they're related. like helen and the bandit. for instance, the older raki and raphaela look quite alike but that doesn't mean their actually related at all.

maybe it's because it is much more convenient to draw characters much faster that way.

Next your going to tell me that Rubel and the priest aren't related EVEN THOUGH BOTH ARE BALD. :eyespin:

[MisterJB]

that's crazy talk.http://i26.tinypic.com/33yq0rn.jpg

[Addiction_2_Claymore]

everyone's saying that the characters might be related cos they look alike. but then, i don't think Raphaela and Luciela look alike even though they are related...

it's coincidence people!

[Ryus]

everyone's saying that the characters might be related cos they look alike. but then, i don't think Raphaela and Luciela look alike even though they are related...

it's coincidence people!

But they had the same nose! :p

(Actually I think they did have the same nose... :heh: )

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/LordRyus/SistersGenes.jpg

[Addiction_2_Claymore]

i bet a lot of them have pointed noses =.=

[Ryus]

i bet a lot of them have pointed noses =.=

They have the same jaw too...

[Shiek927]

They have the same everything for crying out loud, they're twins :rolleyes::heh:

Oh God, Father Vincent is in cahoots with Rubel, the ultimate twist :twitch::heh::heh:

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

the only differnce is hairstyle...and chin....scratch chin out....ok d clueless here

[Ryus]

They have the same everything for crying out loud, they're twins :rolleyes::heh:

Oh God, Father Vincent is in cahoots with Rubel, the ultimate twist :twitch::heh::heh:

:upset:

That's how come he knew Miria and the others are alive! :heh:

It wasn't that there swords were missing, since how could he go north and check it out for himself if Clarice was with Miata. It's not like he could find some random grave site in the north. :p

Plus Clarice had no pen and paper to record the 17 graves she saw.

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

[Ryus]

Luciela is older than Raphaela.

Well twins aren't born at the same time... so one's always older, but your right there not twins.

[Supermutant]

well the bandit didn't give birth to Helen. he was a GUY. haha i don't believe he had a wife. so probably he raped Helen's mother, who gave birth to her in the end. so won't Helen still hate her father for raping her mom?

Further on this idea; I doubt that the bandit should be (seriously) considered Helen's relation because because there's really no way for any connection to be made in the story. So even if the resemblance wasn't just a coincidence, it hard to see what could come of it:

Helen: This seems like a good time to bring up for no reason that I had a father who was a bandit.

Clare: Oh yeah, I think I remember Theresa killing someone who looked like you.

Helen: WTF? LOL

[Shiek927]

Luciela is older than Raphaela.

Yeah, so? Twins don't necessarily have to come out at the same time ya know.

But it doesn't matter, they aren't twins, Alicia and Beth are.

Whoops :heh: