The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 4]

[monir]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Suzumiya Haruhi (2009), Episode 04.

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[Arrnea]

Getting in on the topic creation early I see.
It doesn't air for another 15 minutes on サンテレビジョン
and not for another 35 minutes on テレ玉

That said, I am rather looking forward to this (I'm going to be watching it on テレ玉).
See you in just under an hour when it has finished airing.

[monir]

Time is nothing but a constant for the omniscient lord of the universe who goes by the name Suzumiya Haruhi. Praise be thee.

[M.Marangio]

2chan thread # 1 and #2 (links deleted)

It's nice to see other outfits.

[Jonbob0008]

Haruhi in a sun dress is hawt. It certainly suits her, too.

[dkellis]

... is it just my reading of that thread, or

are we looking at a fourth episode of Endless Eight?

[g0o]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFF- It's still ain't over?? Kyoani = GOD level trolls

[SidVicious]

Haruhi + white dress = too much cuteness :D

[Rungelunge]

OH MY GOD. It's not Haruhi or Kyon. The loop will continue until WE do something!

[topboy]

more Endless eight cool, so cool

[Ascaloth]

And LULZ were had.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF......

[Dr. Casey]

So Kaisos is leaving forever, then? :heh:

I thought there was no way this would last more than three episodes.

[aegisofrime]

WTF is this bull? I really hope they are treating Endless Eight as one episode!

[Ascaloth]

At this rate, it's going to shape up to be one of the easiest periods in my blogging career so far. :heh:

[aegisofrime]

It's also really easy for KyoAni to animate. Just change clothes! :frustrated:

[Roger Rambo]

wait

are you saying they're doing a 4th episode of endless 8?



Could someone explain to me why we've just spent a 4th of the season on material that was originally only covered in a short story?

It's also really easy for KyoAni to animate. Just change clothes! :frustrated:
Not really. Since they seem to be animating it differently every time, with different angles, poses and sequences of events.

[Ascaloth]

Could someone explain to me why we've just spent a 4th of the season on material that was originally only covered in a short story?

Because it's KyoAni. They're back at their 2chan-trolling best, and they're not hiding it. :heh:

[typhonsentra]

It's going to be hilarious seeing DVD sales for these releases. People wait 3 years for a single episode.

[aegisofrime]

wait

are you saying they're doing a 4th episode of endless 8?



Could someone explain to me why we've just spent a 4th of the season on material that was originally only covered in a short story?


Not really. Since they seem to be animating it differently every time, with different angles, poses and sequences of events.

I know, that comment was made half-jokingly. However I still think it is easier to animate than a whole new episode.

It's like copying homework you know? You have to change some of the answers, change the way you solve it, or maybe get some answers deliberately wrong :D

[baltakatei]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Peanutbutter003]

NOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOo............... ........................













*DIES*

[Ascaloth]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Indeed, my friend. Indeed. :D

[topboy]

For first 3 new episodes after it aired just few minutes ppl vote/rating it immediatly , but this episodes... only few ppl rate... just wonder why

[CrowKenobi]

The troll-masters strike! >.<

Well, at least we got some more cute Haruhi moments... :p

:cool:

Kyon, I hope you know that the weight of the entire universe is riding on your shoulders... :heh:

[Arrnea]

Hahahahahahahahahaha....
Nicely played, KyoAni!

Here's to an eight-parter!
Was it just me, or was Koizumi carrying Yuki this time on the bikes near the start?

[baltakatei]

XD Okay, for some odd quirk of my personality, I am rating this a 10/10. The previous episodes were rated as "meh" and "kinda cool". But for a studio to have the balls to go through with airing 4 episodes on nearly the exact. same. plot..... this is probably a first in anime history. It's a very odd first, but a first nonetheless.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/baltakatei/Picture4-3.png

"Ha?"
"eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
"ueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
(etc.)

[relentlessflame]

When you think about what they've done here, it starts to make sense why they packaged this whole thing in the re-airing of the first season. The "gimmick" here is to give novel readers something they thought they could predict using their novel knowledge, and then still manage to surprise them. If they had just aired this as a second season, this idea would never have worked, because a second season has to have its own sense of flow. So now we see why they "cancelled" the second season, and instead "rebooted" the franchise -- somebody had this very bright idea. :heh: I think this is the sort of thing that only this franchise can do (most people don't dare take these sorts of creative risks), so I'm very pleasantly surprised.

[aegisofrime]

I don't mind watching a third episode (or even fourth) of Endless Eight, I'm just worried what sacrifices the other stories will have to make for this madness!

[Ascaloth]

Come to think of it, at this point there's only one possible way for KyoAni to give all this even more of an Endless Eight feel than it does already....

"Hello, Juiz? Please add in a brainwashing frequency into each of the Endless Eight episodes we make so that they'll forget about it each time. Make sure the frequency is imperfect so everyone watching will get deja vu with each new episode they watch...."

:D

[Vexx]

I'm wondering how they're going to package this "reboot" for DVD sales. The gremlins in my head say they'll re-release the entire series with the new inserted episodes :)
(meaning a lot of the SHnY 1.0 box sets become dust-attracting paperweights)

[Orophin]

Wait... WHAT?! Another episode for Endless Eight?! :twitch:

I don't know if I should laugh or cry...

[Raiga]

When you think about what they've done here, it starts to make sense why they packaged this whole thing in the re-airing of the first season. The "gimmick" here is to give novel readers something they thought they could predict using their novel knowledge, and then still manage to surprise them. If they had just aired this as a second season, this idea would never have worked, because a second season has to have its own sense of flow. So now we see why they "cancelled" the second season, and instead "rebooted" the franchise -- somebody had this very bright idea. :heh: I think this is the sort of thing that only this franchise can do (most people don't dare take these sorts of creative risks), so I'm very pleasantly surprised.

Creative risks or not... I kinda want to see the other stories animated too...

[Peanutbutter003]

When you think about what they've done here, it starts to make sense why they packaged this whole thing in the re-airing of the first season. The "gimmick" here is to give novel readers something they thought they could predict using their novel knowledge, and then still manage to surprise them. If they had just aired this as a second season, this idea would never have worked, because a second season has to have its own sense of flow. So now we see why they "cancelled" the second season, and instead "rebooted" the franchise -- somebody had this very bright idea. :heh: I think this is the sort of thing that only this franchise can do (most people don't dare take these sorts of creative risks), so I'm very pleasantly surprised.

Honestly speaking, I find this ridiculous.

This one totally lacked the dramatic impact of the second, maybe it's because we (the viewers) have seen it but I do not think that is the reason. It's like this part had a different director altogether.

With the lack in dramatic impact, everything was stale. (No Koizumi moment, no Kyon awesome deja vu moments etc) Really stale. Yes, it's the 15,499th time (or at least 3rd time for us).

I really think they're trolling us for the fun of it.

(Who wants to go and set one up Kyoani?) :rolleyes:

[Archaic]

How appropriate it is that Endless Eight comes from the volume "The Rampage of Suzumiya Haruhi". I had an inkling they'd do this about 5 minutes out from the ending, when I realized just how little time they had to wrap things up, but even so it still caught me by surprise.

Okay....I'm putting my money down now on there being 8 episodes of Endless Eight. That leaves us with, what, Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody and Sighs completing the "season"?

[wittyusername]

Funny, KyoAni.

Funny.

You clearly aspire to make people laugh in Hosaka-like quantities, and you know what?

You've just done that.

Only this franchise could get away with this. No matter what they do with the series, people are going to buy the DVDs and every other form of Haruhi-related merchandise they can find.

I really hope that all these Endless Eight episodes could somehow be counted as one episode by KyoAni/Kadokawa/whoever. I wish that somehow, once the fans of the series were either about to go crazy or about to become seriously depressed, there'd be enough different episodes released to complete the season. K/K/W would say, "What 15,498+ episodes that were more or less the same? I don't know what you're talking about. There was one Endless Eight episode, and it ended exactly like how the novel ended. Then we aired the rest of the episodes, old and new content ali--"

See, that's when the bomb will go off.

[Ascaloth]

Hahahahahahahahahaha....
Nicely played, KyoAni!

Here's to an eight-parter!
Was it just me, or was Koizumi carrying Yuki this time on the bikes near the start?


Okay....I'm putting my money down now on there being 8 episodes of Endless Eight. That leaves us with, what, Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody and Sighs completing the "season"?

Oi oi oi, guys....I called this at least two weeks ago (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2459262#post2459262). Where are my cookies? :frustrated::D

[typhonsentra]

Given that they only have 14 episodes total for this project, I'm thinking the other season was "Cancelled" was because they promoted it as Yuki's big Disappearance story, which right now is indeed looking like it was canceled in favor of a combination of E8 and Sighs, with the final episode of the season most likely being "Someday in the Rain".

[relentlessflame]

Creative risks or not... I kinda want to see the other stories animated too...I guess all we can say is that "good things come to those who wait"? :heh: For all we know, this reboot could still be the preamble to an actual "second season". Time will tell...

This one totally lacked the dramatic impact of the second, maybe it's because we (the viewers) have seen it but I do not think that is the reason. It's like this part had a different director altogether.It did have a different director, and that's very much on purpose. Each time loop is supposed to play out differently, which is why they put a different episode director on each version and let them "run with it". This episode and the last one did have the same writer, though.

I'm wondering how they're going to package this "reboot" for DVD sales. The gremlins in my head say they'll re-release the entire series with the new inserted episodes :)
(meaning a lot of the SHnY 1.0 box sets become dust-attracting paperweights)Yes, that is the real question here, and to be honest I have no idea how this is going to play out. I'm not even sure how to speculate. But if they do try to pitch the whole show all over again, I'm not too sure I'll be so quick to bite again, since I've already bought it twice as it is...

[dkellis]

It's like this part had a different director altogether.

I'd need to check, but from what I can tell, I think it did.

[CrowKenobi]

Funny, KyoAni.

Funny.

You clearly aspire to make people laugh in Hosaka-like quantities, and you know what?

You've just done that.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMbF0V4XgCM

Speaks for itself, don't it? :heh:

:cool:

[Sute443]

Wait... WHAT?! Another episode for Endless Eight?! :twitch:

I don't know if I should laugh or cry...

Laugh. There are already enough things in this world to cry about; there's no reason to count such a small thing among them.

If not for the fact that Kadokawa has added subtitled versions of episodes from the rebroadcast, I wouldn't find this nearly as entertaining as I do. But they have, so everything has become ridiculous. It used to be that Kadokawa hated the fans and KyoAni was seen as the nice one. Now Kadokawa is being nice and KyoAni is trolling us. The world has gone all topsy-turvy.

[aegisofrime]

They should have had Koizumi laugh like that too.

[Peanutbutter003]

I'd need to check, but from what I can tell, I think it did.

Sack that guy. I'm calling it.

I don't mind watching the first iteration (Ep 12) over and over again. Same goes for second iteration (Ep 13).

For part 3, I think I'll just watch the a.f.k subs (if it's out) once and chucked it aside. :eyespin:

[Ascaloth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMbF0V4XgCM

Speaks for itself, don't it? :heh:

:cool:

I wonder if we'll see Koizumi laugh like that in one of the loops. :heh:

[Ithekro]

Itsuki so needs to laugh like that.

[relentlessflame]

It used to be that Kadokawa hated the fans and KyoAni was seen as the nice one. Now Kadokawa is being nice and KyoAni is trolling us. The world has gone all topsy-turvy.Neither of them hate the fans at all. :heh: They're trying to make this a memorable anime. It's like I said earlier -- the question they had to ask themselves is "how do we top a show that we seen as one of the best late-night anime of all time?" And that's a tall order. With Yamakan gone, Series Director for the first round, this probably changed things as well. I see this as them trying to prevent the show from becoming "yet another disappointing sequel" in the grand scheme of things. I think some people are annoyed now (because they have a countdown timer in their heads until the end of the second season they've been awaiting for so long), but in the grand scheme of things I think it will work out. If nothing else, you can guarantee that this will be remembered, emulated, and jabbed-at for years to come.

[typhonsentra]

Joking aside, what actually happens in this episode for those who have seen it? Do we get anything new because the 2ch pics are looking a little scary.

[SealkidHaruhiism]

KyoAni 12/10
Troll master!

If we dont see The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya Episodes !!!!!!
It will be an epic Fail.
Fans wont buy any haruhi merchandise anymore....
Kyoani=Epic Fail.

[CrowKenobi]

I wonder if we'll see Koizumi laugh like that in one of the loops. :heh:He does that and Kyon's reaction would be priceless! :heh:

:cool:

[aegisofrime]

He does that and Kyon's reaction would be priceless! :heh:

:cool:

The reaction on his face will be worth the 4 episodes that we are having so far :D

[Ascaloth]

Neither of them hate the fans at all. :heh: They're trying to make this a memorable anime. It's like I said earlier -- the question they had to ask themselves is "how do we top a show that we seen as one of the best late-night anime of all time?" And that's a tall order. With Yamakan gone, Series Director for the first round, this probably changed things as well. I see this as them trying to prevent the show from becoming "yet another disappointing sequel" in the grand scheme of things. I think some people are annoyed now (because they have a countdown timer in their heads until the end of the second season they've been awaiting for so long), but in the grand scheme of things I think it will work out. If nothing else, you can guarantee that this will be remembered, emulated, and jabbed-at for years to come.

I've thought about this sometimes too. Before all this, whenever I reviewed the Disappearance storyline, I would think "they can't possibly rehash the whole scrambled-order thing with this, it just doesn't fit. They'll actually have to animate Disappearance in a more conventional manner, as in chronologically. I just don't see what else they could possibly do with this kind of material."

And that, my friends, is why I am not, and probably never will, be working for KyoAni. ;)

[SidVicious]

fail yet again.

[Sute443]

Itsuki so needs to laugh like that.

Isn't Itsuki supposed to laugh like that (or at least cackle madly) at some point in Sighs? So if they ever get around to that, your wish might be granted.

Neither of them hate the fans at all. :heh:

I definitely should have had a smiley in there, but I just don't like using them. Of course they don't hate us, but the manner in which they show their affection seems rather reminiscent of how small boys show theirs.

[Toonleap]

Screenshots, Spoilers...again!

http://www.cartoonleap.com/2009/07/02/haruhi-second-seasonthe-loop-from-hell-continues/

This was a pain to watch...no, seriously, AGAIN??!!

[Game8910]

15,498/10 trolls

KyoAni you are legendary...

[Ithekro]

I like this trolling better than the last one. At least we get "new" Haruhi each time.

[SaraFilipa]

This is too funny! :D I'm loving this!

My only concern is that they'll cover less story... But heck, maybe they're even saving it for future seasons.

And I agree that Koizumi should emulate Hosaka's epic laugh someday. Please, Daisuke Ono? :3

[typhonsentra]

Screenshots, Spoilers...again!

http://www.cartoonleap.com/2009/07/02/haruhi-second-seasonthe-loop-from-hell-continues/

This was a pain to watch...no, seriously, AGAIN??!!

Thanks for the pictures, since you've seen the episode I hope you can help here: Is their any new information at all in this episode? Does anything new or interesting happened that didn't in the last one or is it a repeat with a costume change and slight teaks in dialogue?

[khryoleoz]

I happen to think that this is great development for Disappearance. Yuki isn't at all expressionless. Her countenance conveys a lot.

[Toonleap]

Thanks for the pictures, since you've seen the episode I hope you can help here: Is their any new information at all in this episode? Does anything new or interesting happened that didn't in the last one or is it a repeat with a costume change and slight teaks in dialogue?

Oh yeah!...There are lots of things that changed from last episode...Just check the screenshots, new costumes...Itsuki also has a nice line in the episode that can reflects our frustrations for this new repetition...I dont want to spoil it too much, but yeah...same story but subtle changes in dialogues and costumes...and I think Yuki finally wears that mask in her face.... :D

[Raiga]

(wow this topic moves fast... directed @typhonsentra) Uh... Kyon figured out that Yuki had been experiencing every loop without Koizumi having to tell him straight-up. Kyon's deja vu feeling and subconscious prediction of what would happen next also seemed to increase a bit. Oh yeah, he offered to pay for Yuki's mask out loud, instead of just thinking to himself "I should have paid for that," and Yuki wore her mask on her face instead of on the side of her head.

Yeah, basically, nothing major.

[Proto]

Now you are starting to feel what the in series character feel, don't you? This is genious, I tell you.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

While I do like the boldness of what they're trying to do if they take anywhere past one more episode I'll really begin to kick my self in the head. I want to see Dissapearence dang it.

With that said it was a pretty enjoyable episode anyways and I must agree with Proto's above statement about the viewers feeling what the characters feel. It certainly is causing me to lose motivation to watch the next episode as I don't want to see more loops, but I know I'll watch it anyways.

[Rice_slayer]

As much as I am Raging, they are making it interesting for novel readers. Still, 6/10 for extending a 1 episode story to 4(or maybe 15498)?

[typhonsentra]

WTF @ the animation in this episode. :heh:

Half the episode was still-shots or moving lips with static bodies. Even the animators don't give a shit at this point.

[khryoleoz]

Now you are starting to feel what the in series character feel, don't you? This is genious, I tell you.
Well, not quite all the characters. Only Yuki can sympathize with us...or rather the other way around, and we only caught it from cycle 15,498. Yuki has experienced it since cycle 1.

[quigonkenny]

Animation for this episode was disappointing, indeed. Looks like we got the K-on director this time. Especially in the final cafe scene, Haruhi looks like she could have walked right off of that overrated show... I hope Disappearance is being directed by the one who did the previous episode...

Four episodes for E8... Kadokawa/KyoAni better make this the last one, or else I'll...be very upset while I watch the next one...

[Isekaijin]

We were trolled... again.

They are better not counting endless eight as 4 episodes

Or else...

[Ascaloth]

The poll needs to be reset. With a 15,498/10 option.

:D

[jonli]

This is a bit too much....

[ReneeBurossamu]

LOL I didn't see it coming like all the people in this thread.
I'm just gonna log off now and wait for subs at this point.

[musume_no_hoshi]

The animation for this episode was REALLY iffy....I liked the 2nd endless eight episode animation the best, since I'm quite a fan of KyoAni glow filters. I'll just say what everyone said:

Only KyoAni can troll us like this.

Oh lets see how the DVD sales do this time round.

[Takamura Mamoru]

12/10 KyoAni, god tier trolls.

There is NO excuse for showing the same shit twice, except this episode is actually pure shit, even objectively.

[musume_no_hoshi]

I wonder is the director sitting in this little dark room, with no lights, with his computer on, reading 2ch comments and going, 'Just as planned'

[relentlessflame]

They are better not counting endless eight as 4 episodes

Or else...What do you mean "count as 4 episodes"? Of course it counts as four episodes, because they've only got their two-cour of broadcast time.

And, furthermore: the Internet is filled with whiny children who, based on the maturity of the reaction, probably deserved to be "trolled". I know, News at Eleven...

Reminder that this isn't 4chan. If you're not going to post something with some substance, don't post.

[dr.koljan]

Endless Eight #1 - Hm, so what?
Endless Eight #2 - Oh, now I get it, awesome!
Endless Eight #3 - WTF, are you kidding me?

[Daniel E.]

Well, the more they stretch this out, the more material they will have for a possible third season. :p

[ReneeBurossamu]

Looks like they lost the art quality in the episode and spent it all on #2.
Oh boy. The look on everyone's faces when Kyon fails. That wasn't good.

Next time, Kyon better not get an inside seat.

[typhonsentra]

Well, the more they stretch this out, the more material they will have for a possible third season. :p

The problem is also that the more they stretch it out the less material they have for this one. Right now they have 9 more episodes, and the only storyline that hasn't been animated in the timeline between this and Someday in the Rain is Sighs and possibly Haruhi Theater (Which is unlikely that they'll animate). Meaning assuming the schedule has Sighs signed up for 6 episodes and they plan to do one episode that's totally anime original like last season, we still have 3 more episodes of E8 to go. :uhoh:

[Jonbob0008]

Well, when the Endless Eight was first going to air, we were all debating whether they were going to show it in one or two episodes. When Endless Eight 1 ended, we were all sure that it would be wrapped up in the second episode.

Then Endless Eight II ended and we were REALLY sure that the episode would be wrapped up with Endless Eight III.

And now...none of us are really sure of anything. I mean, I'm fairly sure this will be wrapped up next week, but I'm much less sure than I was about this episode wrapping it up. At least when the episode finally ends, we can feel a huge sigh of relief. Almost no one saw this coming. :P

[Kirarakim]

Endless Eight.....hmm maybe they are going to try to make it 8 episodes. :heh:

[typhonsentra]

I gave the last episode a 1 by the way. This time I'll give it a 10, just to be different.

[SealkidHaruhiism]

Endless Eight.....hmm maybe they are going to try to make it 8 episodes. :heh:

The Endless Summer of Haruhi Suzumiya.
:)

[Toonleap]

Kyoani warned us from the very beginning...Just check the opening...

http://i39.tinypic.com/2a4sl1g.jpg

Count the number of "8" and you will see....4!!!! The number of episodes for Endless "Eight"...I discovered that while doing my usual review (http://www.cartoonleap.com/2009/07/02/haruhi-second-seasonthe-loop-from-hell-continues/)....:)

[Rice_slayer]

Kyoani warned us from the very beginning...Just check the opening...

http://i39.tinypic.com/2a4sl1g.jpg

Count the number of "8" and you will see....4!!!! The number of episodes for Endless "Eight"...I discovered that while doing my usual review (http://www.cartoonleap.com/2009/07/02/haruhi-second-seasonthe-loop-from-hell-continues/)....:)

FFFFFFFFFFFFFF! I think this guy won the internet!

[CrowKenobi]

That could work if that symbol isn't for infinity. :D :uhoh:

:cool:

[Toonleap]

That could work if that symbol isn't for infinity. :D :uhoh:

:cool:

Endless = Infinity ... :D

Probably they use 8 to represent the infinity sign...pure symbolism! It makes sense for the title of the arc..."Endless eight"

[Fushichou7]

I was very irritated by this episode...

Out of the 14 episodes that they have available, they have spent what, 3 or 4 episodes on the same story that, in the novels, was a short story? What is KyoAni thinking here? I don't think 'troll' is the right explanation to this; I think they are being lazy.

Which brings me back to my original thought that they probably never wanted to make a second season in the first place...

[Vexx]

..... have you read the "short story" as you call it? You might try another piece of science fiction called "Thrice Upon a Time" by Hogan. Hint: at one point I thought I had a misprinted book til I kept reading and flipping back and forth to realize what was going on.

[Fushichou7]

Yes, I have, but as I see you are about to attack me for making any response, I refuse to get into this.

[Kaisos Erranon]

1/10.

What the fuck, seriously.

I'm not "quitting", because I have too much to do here, but I'm so fucking angry.

Yes, we don't know anything, "Just As Planned", hahaha.

So yeah, we're probably not getting anything but Endless Eight this season.

Congrats, KyoAni, you've just lost another fan.


Now where the HELL is that tenth novel? Oh wait, that'll probably be a troll too.

Yeah, this series is pretty much my life, and now it's pretty well dead to me.

THAAAAAANKS KYOANI

[Proto]

^ Hahaha, it's because of reactions like that that this stunts are so welcomed by me. :heh:

[Kaisos Erranon]

^ Hahaha, it's because of reactions like that that this stunts are so welcomed by me. :heh:

You know what? Nothing I say can really make me look good anymore.

Just screw it.

[Proto]

Sorry, I think I went overboard a little, but I actually feel like applauding KyoAni for having the guts to pull this out. I mean, I think we can all get the artistic joke of stretching this out in order to give the watchers the same feeling of endless loop as the protagonist, but one thing is to say it and another to execute it, risking the backslash of the fanbase. I actually wish them the best for this to work out. :)

[Fushichou7]

Although it can be seen as slightly amusing, the issue here is that they made us wait 2 years for something that many people really wanted. Now, they are wasting away the episodes they have with obvious fillers.

[Proto]

the issue here is that they made us wait 2 years for something that many people really wanted. Now, they are wasting away the episodes they have with obvious fillers.

If I may say it, that only increases the beauty of it all to me. It's obvious that Kyoani can also see this, which makes it all the more amusing. You just have to have a cynical mindset to appreciate this I guess: :heh:

[Fenrir_valindri]

I loled, I really did, if I wasn't exhausted from my cold, I would probably be more frustrated.

The only thing that frustrates me is having to wait another week for the next episode, although I admit the thought of them making these episodes actually count as "multiple" episodes of this season is a bit frustrating. :twitch:

[Takamura Mamoru]

It just occured to me that this is still officially being called a "re-air". A "remake" of Season 1 with "new animation" or something like that.. And officially, the second season is "dropped".

You know what I think? There's not going to be any "Disappearance". Seriously. All their going to do is add all stories that are chronologically in between, but nothing beyond "Someday In The Rain".

It sound ridiculous, but this is what I think may happen. Endless Eight, Sighs and that's it.

If this actually happens I don't know how I'll react.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Murderous rage? If we don't get Disappearance with all the hints for it and development of Yuki, it will be quite annoying. :eyespin:

[khryoleoz]

And it might neither be 8 nor infinity. Maybe a few episodes from now, we're gonna see a line slash through the middle of the two loops.

[khryoleoz]

Congrats, KyoAni, you've just lost another fan.

Yeah, this series is pretty much my life, and now it's pretty well dead to me.

THAAAAAANKS KYOANI
Well, I'm pretty sure KyoAni had been ready to respond to such reactions with a prepared statement saying, "See ya!"

[typhonsentra]

I declare today the day Kyoani just shot itself in the foot.
I don't know if the rest of you know much about Japanese culture (I'm an expert!), but honor and shame are a huge part of it!

If you screw someone over in Japan, Glorious Nippon, you bring shame to yourself.

You could say Endless Eight has ended it's sales.... of DVDs for the series!

[Ithekro]

I was amused by this episode. I don't know why exactly...I just was.

[SaraFilipa]

Am I the only one that finds this "gimmick" totally ingenious? :D
I'm glad they gave us another Endless Eight episode with no real ending, just for the "WTF" factor.
Now I won't be surprised if they do the same this next week, just to stir it up a bit... I bet that, no matter what most of you are saying, you're still follow the series. They win in the end: adapting less material and leaving material untouched for a possible third season; and still leaving people intrigued. That's why I love this series.

@Takamura Mamoru: LOL :D

[Sheba]

Can they make Kyon and Itsuki commiting suicide together a la Thelma & Louise? Or pissed off Kyon stealing a car and driving off a cliff with Shamisen behind the wheel? I'll appreciate it.

[Takamura Mamoru]

Unrelated to the topic, but I wonder how this would have been if the Brigade (except Haruhi) would remember every time? Like the classic Groundhog Day. Except of course, not as many loops as 15.000

They could do all kinds of shit without consequences. :eyespin:

[Stardust Romance]

Can they make Kyon and Itsuki commiting suicide together a la Thelma & Louise? Or pissed off Kyon stealing a car and driving off a cliff with Shamisen behind the wheel? I'll appreciate it.

Now THAT would be something to watch :heh:

KyoAni has won the hearts of 4chan again.
I'm still going to watch this episode though despite the low rated-polls.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Just to be optimistic, I think they will end it next week. :D

No real reason for the guess other then they have probably succeeded in their goal of making the fan base feel even a portion of what Yuki is going through.

Or they can just troll us till we reach 8 episodes of Endless Eight. :heh:

[Vexx]

Personally, I think this is as nifty as any classic Twilight Zone episode I can think of.... "Thrice Apon a Time" (novel) and "ST:TNG Cause and Effect" category....

Its a genius bit of storytelling that will (as we see from the thread) have people tearing their hair out.... just like the characters. Extra fascinating because they could have recycled animation... and for the most part they don't seem to have.

[CrowKenobi]

Just to be optimistic, I think they will end it next week. :D I think so too because they have said everything that they can about the situation and have set up the solution; so next week hopefully will be half "old" stuff and half solution. :D

:cool:

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Its a genius bit of storytelling that will (as we see from the thread) have people tearing their hair out.... just like the characters.

I really do appreciate the approach in that respect, but even for me (who is applauding Kyoani's actions boldness while still being mildly annoyed by it all) I do think if they drag it on anymore than one more episode my enjoyment will probably come to a near screeching halt. There is only so much I can take and while I have somewhat liked this "unique" approach by Kyoani, I think they've done quite enough and it's time to stop.

I mean if they're doing all this to give us insight into the feelings of the characters I think they have done a swell enough job of that already (some haruhi fans threatning to stop watching) and there doesn't need to be anymore added on effect in my opinion.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Another possibility is they are waiting for summer to end in Japan, and then they really will end the "Endless" Eight story, it makes sense considering they waited 3 years to start this season of Haruhi. :heh:

[Nochgo]

Ugh, Endless Eight IV, eh? I don't know what KyoAni is thinking, but I really hope they aren't joking. If they seriously did this to convey the feel of Endless Eight to the audience, fine. But even that have limits too.

Having wasted 4 episodes (or more) on this plot, my thought is that they will do a separate anime season titled "The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya," after this reruns of 'melancholy' ends (pun intended). Though this is just a hopeful thought of mine.


Now where the HELL is that tenth novel? Oh wait, that'll probably be a troll too.


Well, KyoAni doesn't write the novels, Tanigawa Nagaru does. So I wouldn't think the last novel would be a troll.

[relentlessflame]

I think so too because they have said everything that they can about the situation and have set up the solution; so next week hopefully will be half "old" stuff and half solution. :D

:cool:This is just me, but what I would love to see them do is have next week end in a cliffhanger, and then have the subsequent episode be "Endless Eight Part II", just to really, really confuse on-lookers. :heh:

Having wasted 4 episodes (or more) on this plot, my thought is that they will do a separate anime season titled "The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya," after this reruns of 'melancholy' ends. Though this is just a hopeful thought of mine.Well, yeah. I think people are just upset right now because they're like "I've waited three years and built up all these expectations of what they'd cover, and instead they're giving me this". But this is certainly not going to be the last Haruhi anime ever, and as was pointed out, this is a reboot of the series -- an expansion of season one. I think they're trying to make people set their expectations aside and just allow the show to surprise them again. Because otherwise, they were never going to live up to peoples expectations anyway.

And to be perfectly frank, I wouldn't be oh so disappointed if some of the more hardcore fanboys did lose interest. It's way too much fan drama for my tastes. :heh:

[SealkidHaruhiism]

Now where the HELL is that tenth novel? Oh wait, that'll probably be a troll too.


Kyoani doesn't write the novels
Tanigawa, Nagaru writes the novels
and hes also the creator of haruhi.

Just cheer up. Dont blame on them on everything.

The whole thing isn't kyoani's falt.

Blame on Kadokawa.
They're the ones who troll us a lot.
Kyoani deserves half of the trolling.

Also Kaisos Erranon,
Kadokawa postponed the Last novel.
ok.

[C.A.]

This episode has really defined anime as art rather than just 20+ minute commercials.

Do you think this episode will sell DVDs? Will more people buy this episode's DVD if they show it a few more times with different variations? Obviously not.

But what they've done stimulated the senses and emotions of the audience, they've created an unexpected result which causes the audience to react strongly. This is art, a creation that genuinely makes the audience feel the what the characters go through.

So yes, I agree its ingenious as people have mentioned earlier on.

[relentlessflame]

Do you think this episode will sell DVDs? Will more people buy this episode's DVD if they show it a few more times with different variations? Obviously not.Well, if they package it in such a way that doesn't make me buy the whole first season again, I'll buy... I actually quite like these episodes, repetition and all. It's interesting! But otherwise, I do totally agree with your points. This isn't just about using anime as a vehicle to tell a story, it's about using the actual presentation as the story. That's out-of-the-box thinking.

[Fushichou7]

I still have my doubts.

What could be called "ingenious" could really be "laziness."

While I am not trying to disprove your point, I'm a bit skeptical about KyoAni's intentions.

[W-General]

05/21 ep08 Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody
05/28 ep09 Mysteric Sign
06/04 ep10 Desert Island Syndrome (I)
06/11 ep11 Desert Island Syndrome (II)
06/18 ep12 Endless Eight
06/25 ep13 Endless Eight
07/02 ep14 Endless Eight
07/09 ep15 Endless Eight
07/16 ep16 Endless Eight
07/23 ep17 Endless Eight
07/30 ep18 Endless Eight
08/07 ep19 Endless Eight
08/14 ep20 Endless Eight
08/21 ep21 Endless Eight
08/28 ep22 Endless Eight
09/03 ep23 Endless Eight
09/10 ep24 Endless Eight
09/17 ep25 Endless Eight
09/24 ep26 Endless Eight
10/01 ep27 Endless Eight
10/08 ep28 Endless Eight
~The End~

[relentlessflame]

I still have my doubts.

What could be called "ingenious" could really be "laziness."

While I am not trying to disprove your point, I'm a bit skeptical about KyoAni's intentions.I don't find there to be anything particularly "lazy" about it. It's actually probably more work in some ways to keep coming up with new and different ways of presenting the story from different angles, while still giving a sense of progression. Each episode is treated by a different director as a full episode with different shots, cuts, and scripts (albeit similar in some ways). I think this is at least as much work as it would be to produce episodes that progress further through the novels.

[Ithekro]

Haruhi seems to have always done things just a little different. Why else would it have started over three years ago with the Adventures of Mikuru Episode 00? You know, that episode that made abolutely no sense, looked like a cheap high school production, and was started with off-key singing from a bunny girl with a machine gun? Until you look past the obvious that is. The "wait, this is an anime...why does an anime have a shaky camera, poor lighting, and cheesy effects when the characters and backgrounds look extremely good?" moment.

Every episode of Endless Eight has been the same...but not the same. I don't think they've used even a single piece of animation over again. It is like they decided to use this episode to test out their various directors and art staffs for later work. Maybe they even spent time over the last three years making these episodes just to give themselves a baseline for new works. It is Haruhi...so you can never tell.

That is also why Haruhi works.

[C.A.]

Yes, Haruhi works by being doing extremely risky stunts, stuff that disorientates the general audience. But its this difference they make that attracts the audience.

Do you think they make money by 'trolling'? What is 'trolling'?

Its a powerful story telling method they're using here, they are presenting their art with as much risk as possible so that the audience feel the same as the characters.

[typhonsentra]

I still have my doubts.

What could be called "ingenious" could really be "laziness."

While I am not trying to disprove your point, I'm a bit skeptical about KyoAni's intentions.

I think you're closer to the truth here. Some people would defend them releasing an episode that's just a 10 minute static shot of mayonnaise.

[SaraFilipa]

Mazui subs are out, guys.

[relentlessflame]

I think you're closer to the truth here. Some people would defend them releasing an episode that's just a 10 minute static shot of mayonnaise.Or it could be that some of us legitimately believe what we're saying. You don't need to resort to these sorts of discrediting tactics to win an argument. I really do think that this is neat, and I wouldn't say that just because it's Haruhi (when have I ever blindly defended Haruhi in the past?). Please avoid this.

[C.A.]

Art appreciation can be taught but even if people do not know how to appreciate art, all reactions are genuine. And that genuine reaction is created by the art piece itself.

When one can recognise the artistry, it becomes appreciation. When one fails to recognise it, it becomes criticism. Though this is just a simple breakdown, art appreciation has much deeper meaning to it, that's why it can be taught to people and improved.

[Fushichou7]

Not to sound rude, but what about the element of story and variation appreciation? The same thing for 3 weeks is really somewhat irritating when they could have ended it two weeks ago if they wanted to.

[Ithekro]

There is also the idea that one needs to experiance what they SOS-dan is going though to make the story more meaningful. They seem to be doing this correctly. I actaully feel more for Nagato each time because you can see it getting to her even through that normally stoic face. If the season is indeed continue as expected (what does that mean now anyway?) that feeling for Nagato maybe just what is needed to sell the stories.

[relentlessflame]

Not to sound rude, but what about the element of story and variation appreciation? The same thing for 3 weeks is really somewhat irritating when they could have ended it two weeks ago if they wanted to.This is going to become one of those "holy war" debates like the Haruhi/Kyon order question from the first airing. Some people will think the "repetition" is pointless because they could have just gotten the point across in one go and moved on to "bigger and better things". Other people will think the "repetition" is an artistic way of conveying the same sense of frustration felt by characters and a truer sense of the "time loop". Neither answer is necessarily right or wrong, which is what C.A. was saying about "artistic appreciation".

I guess I'm sort of taking the long view. This is something that we'll still be talking about for years to come, and as good as I'm sure the rest of the Haruhi story is (haven't read the novels past the first one), I'm not sure they could have accomplished the same any other way. The true test will be what people say about this 3 years from now.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

All these recent episodes keep reminding me of the movie Groundhog Day. I wonder if any of the people who are becoming irritated by these episodes like that movie (that'd be ironic).

[DoraTora!]

Forget this being ingenius and artistic.

I say they're just fucking with us. :D

[Jintor]

I'm in despair!

This endless summer which sucks up story time from later seasons has left me in despair!



Not to say this isn't what KyoAni wants, but it's getting mighty hard to stick with the program.

[daisekihan]

What's really irritating is that they're actually being unfaithful to the short story even with this iteration---the 15,498th is the last time it repeats. Furthermore, the story only covers the final recurrence, so you could basically say that the past three episodes have essentially been filler (assuming, God willing, that the fourth will be the last).

I've seen at least one person here defend this idea as clever and avant-garde, but I just don't buy it. When a show or a movie does the recurrence of time scenario, it only works if the main character is aware and has to figure out how to break the cycle. This...how is this interesting, since more than half the show is almost complete repetition? It seems like they're trying to unpredictable for the sake of being unpredictable. It may be that repeating the episode over and over has the effect of making the audience as frustrated as the characters---but consider that they have no memory outside of Deja Vu, and that Yuki was designed to have the patience of the Buddha. The main thing that I think discredits this idea is that, like I said, the story only covers the last time. If Tanigawa had actually written the story four times with slight variations, their might be reason for it. Variations of imagery and perspective could be meaningful if we felt that they reflected something meaningful about the story or the characters---but that's not the case, because all these non-15498th repetitions are just something the animators made up.

I don't think this will be emulated or thought of as being a bold, daring move down the line. It's like the Pepsi Clear of adaptation concepts---people hate it from the get-go, and only remember it later on because of how bad it was.

[Kirarakim]

All these recent episodes keep reminding me of the movie Groundhog Day. I wonder if any of the people who are becoming irritated by these episodes like that movie (that'd be ironic).

I am pretty sure that is the movie that popularized the repeating time idea (if it didn't come up with the idea but I can't actually say that because I am not sure). But there has been many shows/movies who have taken the concept and have used it over the years. Another good example is the X-Files episode Monday. But I have to say I can't think of an example where the concept was shown over the course of several episodes.

[Jintor]

I personally think that being able to replicate the RAAAAAAAAAAAGE at waking up with the knowledge that time just won't stop looping is something I simply haven't experienced before, and that's kind of cool.

On the other hand, it means I have to deal with the RAAAAAAAAAAGe of waking up with the knowledge that time won't stop looping...

[arcticphoenix16]

This episode has done one thing. I feel sooo bad for Yuki now. If they wanted us to sympathize with Yuki, they succeeded.

Other than that, there is no excuse for this terrible animation. Way too many still shots.

[Sheba]

All these recent episodes keep reminding me of the movie Groundhog Day. I wonder if any of the people who are becoming irritated by these episodes like that movie (that'd be ironic).

I also remember that Supernatural episode, season 3.


Now on the "still shot of 10 minute on a mayonnaise pot" used as argument, I'll point to Once Upon a Time in the West where the viewers had gone through 10 mins before the arrival of the train, 10 mins watching guys waiting and a mosquito pissing off one of the aforementioned guys. You don't know what is slow pacing and stills until you have seen that excellent movie.




I say they're just fucking with us.



Same here. I'll wait and see what happen.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

I am pretty sure that is the movie that popularized the repeating time idea (if it didn't come up with the idea but I can't actually say that because I am not sure). But there has been many shows/movies who have taken the concept and have used it over the years. Another good example is the X-Files episode Monday. But I have to say I can't think of an example where the concept was shown over the course of several episodes.

Well time loops have always been common in science fiction, so Groundhog Day wasn't really the bringer up of the idea. However it is probably the most commonly known example of it. Day Break is the only show I know of that has had a time loop continue episode by episode. That directly has to do with the fact the entire plot is centered around a police officer reliving the same day over and over again.

[Kirarakim]

Well time loops have always been common in science fiction, so Groundhog Day wasn't really the bringer up of the idea. However it is probably the most commonly known example of it. Day Break is the only show I know of that has had a time loop continue episode by episode. That directly has to do with the fact the entire plot is centered around a police officer reliving the same day over and over again.


Now you got my interested to find out what sci-fi story originated the concept. But I guess I am getting off topic.

Anyways I am mixed on my feelings about this. I am only annoyed in the sense that I worry what later episodes will be cut since they are dedicating so many episodes to such a short story.

At the same time I think what they are doing is clever because we are really feeling what Yuki is feeling: annoyance and boredom. I know people are saying they are just being lazy but it does seem that they are animating each episode in a different way. I mean I think that takes some effort.

When I read the novel of this story I thought it was fun but not really anything super special. But the anime version has definitely at least surprised me And no matter the response it has got people talking.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Now you got my interested to find out what sci-fi story originated the concept. But I guess I am getting off topic.

Anyways I am mixed on my feelings about this. I am only annoyed in the sense that I worry what later episodes will be cut since they are dedicating so many episodes to such a short story.

At the same time I think what they are doing is clever because we are really feeling what Yuki is feeling: annoyance and boredom. I know people are saying they are just being lazy but it does seem that they are animating each episode in a different way. I mean I think that takes some effort.

When I read the novel of this story I thought it was fun but not really anything super special. But the anime version has definitely at least surprised me And no matter the response it has got people talking.


I'm kind of in the same boat as you. I like what they have done with the story and conveying the feelings of the characters well with the audience, but at the same time I am annoyed. Not so much annoyed for the repetition itself (they have done a good job at keeping things fresh, albeit still very similar), but the worry that they won't have enough time for the later arcs. The next episode seems like the logical ending point.

As for the origins of time loops, its hard to pinpoint a definitive starting point. One can find primitive time loop ideas in old mythology. For example the punishment of Prometheus (of Greek Mythology), where he has his liver torn out by an eagle each day (having it grow back each day to be eaten again).

[Ithekro]

So what we have so far is:
Week 1: Normal Ending
Week 2: Bad Ending
Week 3: "What do you mean I don't have all the light orbs?" Ending
Week 4: ???
Week 5: Profit (Sighs)

[relentlessflame]

What's really irritating is that they're actually being unfaithful to the short story even with this iteration---the 15,498th is the last time it repeats. Furthermore, the story only covers the final recurrence, so you could basically say that the past three episodes have essentially been filler (assuming, God willing, that the fourth will be the last).Well, the reason for this deviation from the novels seems pretty straightforward. If you actually know how many times it's going to repeat, it removes the sense of the unknown. It introduces a comfortable sense of assurance, like "at least I can take comfort in knowing it'll all be over soon". Because you have a substantial portion of the Japanese audience who has read the novels, this was a very deliberate move directed at them (because the non-novel-readers wouldn't have cared what number the loop was; to them the effect is the same). It was the only way of achieving the desired effect even among those who knew the source material, and I think that was the whole point.

The main thing that I think discredits this idea is that, like I said, the story only covers the last time. If Tanigawa had actually written the story four times with slight variations, their might be reason for it. Variations of imagery and perspective could be meaningful if we felt that they reflected something meaningful about the story or the characters---but that's not the case, because all these non-15498th repetitions are just something the animators made up.I'm not sure I can buy this argument entirely. One could also argue that the experience of the novel reader is incomplete, because it doesn't sufficiently convey the frustration of the time loop and just jumps to the conclusion for the purpose of advancing the plot. If there was purpose in the time loop and the near 15,500 loops to begin with, then it isn't just the last loop that matters. Otherwise it's sort "oh yeah, take our word for it -- she's frustrated as hell because they've all lived this 15,000+ times". Now, in a small way, they're showing us what it's like. So I'm not sure that the "it can't matter because it wasn't in the novels" argument is totally sufficient. It was in the novels, they just didn't show it (excusing the "15,498" argument for the reason I outlined above). So your argument makes sense in the "it wasn't really needed to advance the plot" sense (obviously), but this isn't just about advancing the story either. (Call it "deliberately inefficient", perhaps.)

I don't think this will be emulated or thought of as being a bold, daring move down the line. It's like the Pepsi Clear of adaptation concepts---people hate it from the get-go, and only remember it later on because of how bad it was.Well, I obviously don't hate it, but at the same time I don't think it's very likely to be directly emulated -- it's a concept only Haruhi can pull off convincingly, I think. It's one of those ideas that's almost more brilliant in the abstract than in the concrete (like the episode order thing, which was cool the first time, but lead to a lot of confusion, hence it being gone in the re-broadcast). But time will tell what impact it'll have. I guess you could call it "experimental art", and that's why I like it. The frustration we're seeing is a case of life imitating art.

[Ashlotte]

Well I can appreciate a time loop story...Hell one of my favorite movies is Groundhog Day...But does everyone defending this episode really think this was the best way to express the story at hand?

Atleast the second episode in this series of loops was interesting and added onto what came before, but this one felt completely gratuitous and a borderline publicity stunt. It didn't even make any attempt to add on what had been developed upon in earlier episodes rather seeming merely content to repeat what came before with subpar animation.

So yea I like the idea, but the execution this time around fell flat on its face for me. If the intent was to allow people to feel a sampling of the emotions that the characters are going through by exposing us to the same repeating environment I think they did well enough establishing that during the second go round no?

P.S. No I am not a novel reader and no I'm not chomping at the bit to see the story advanced to whatever part everyone seems to be begging for...Just a poor schmuck who likes a good story and doesn't wanna feel like I just utterly wasted half an hour of my life. :heh:

[Vexx]

Now on the "still shot of 10 minute on a mayonnaise pot" used as argument, I'll point to Once Upon a Time in the West where the viewers had gone through 10 mins before the arrival of the train, 10 mins watching guys waiting and a mosquito pissing off one of the aforementioned guys. You don't know what is slow pacing and stills until you have seen that excellent movie.
Hah! I still remember the first time I saw that Italian-made Western... one of my first experiences with a film sensibility one didn't see much in American film -- gave the ensuing violence a hell of a lot of impact.

.But does everyone defending this episode really think this was the best way to express the story at hand?
Well, in my case - I don't know that I'm "defending" the episode. Personally I think the total range of responses being posted here are entirely appropriate - both negative and positive. What I find fascinating is the intensity of the various responses. Hate to say this, but that's the kind of stuff an artist just eats up: intense reactions.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Well I can appreciate a time loop story...Hell one of my favorite movies is Groundhog Day...But does everyone defending this episode really think this was the best way to express the story at hand?

Atleast the second episode in this series of loops was interesting and added onto what came before, but this one felt completely gratuitous and a borderline publicity stunt. It didn't even make any attempt to add on what had been developed upon in earlier episodes rather seeming merely content to repeat what came before with subpar animation.

Well this episode was defenitely my least favorite of all the time loop episodes. Where the second time loop episode felt different while still being similar to the first, this latest one seemed almost identical to the previous (although it does amplify the effect of irritation the viewer must be feeling, thus further relating to the character's feelings). As long as they end this with the next episode I'll be forgiving, but I doubt I'd be if Kyoani drags it along any more than that, because while it adds to the effect there is only so much I can stand.



Now on the "still shot of 10 minute on a mayonnaise pot" used as argument, I'll point to Once Upon a Time in the West where the viewers had gone through 10 mins before the arrival of the train, 10 mins watching guys waiting and a mosquito pissing off one of the aforementioned guys. You don't know what is slow pacing and stills until you have seen that excellent movie.


Thats always been one of my favorite Western films. It was a great setup (you could say very rewarding) for what ensued after the long wait. When I watch that movie nowadays, that scene always feels very tense.

[relentlessflame]

Well I can appreciate a time loop story...Hell one of my favorite movies is Groundhog Day...But does everyone defending this episode really think this was the best way to express the story at hand?I would only say: no, not to express the story at hand, but to truly convey the same sense of discomfort in the viewers. If they had just wrapped things up with this episode, everyone would have said "well, that was interesting" and moved on. Now they've created a genuine sense of unease bordering on discomfort (and, as we can see in this thread, genuine frustration and anger in some cases). If the purpose were just "make the point and move on", you're totally right. If the purpose is "make people feel on edge by all this repeating", then it was required. So I guess it depends on what you take as the point of this episode, I guess. And I'm also not sure if we can truly judge the point of the episode until we see where they're going with this. Again, I'm trying to take a long-term, big-picture view of this situation.

Hah! I still remember the first time I saw that Italian-made Western... one of my first experiences with a film sensibility one didn't see much in American film -- gave the ensuing violence a hell of a lot of impact.A perhaps prophetic proclamation on your part. :p

Well, in my case - I don't know that I'm "defending" the episode. Personally I think the total range of responses being posted here are entirely appropriate - both negative and positive. What I find fascinating is the intensity of the various responses. Hate to say this, but that's the kind of stuff an artist just eats up: intense reactions.I totally agree. I'm more fascinated by the intensity of the response than anything else. If it seems like I'm "defending the show", it's not because I'm trying to make people's frustration somehow "illegitimate" or "wrong", it's more because I think the frustration people are feeling is precisely what the artists were hoping to achieve by this episode. So perhaps we could say that that, even through this apparent failure, they have achieved a resounding success. It all depends on how you measure it.

[dnab]

As a novel reader: wow, and ouch!

[Jiggy]

I kind of wish I could evaluate this episode in a vacuum, but I can't give an honest rating because I almost couldn't stop laughing the whole time just out of amused disbelief that they took it this far with so little change from the second episode except music and a couple pieces of dialogue. (Huge points to Koizumi's "We've entered an endless recursion of time" line, by the way.)

I didn't feel sympathy, boredom, uneasiness, or anything similar, so if that's what they were aiming for then I'm not the one feeling it. But I think I like what I got even more: surprise, disbelief, and a total inability to figure out what will happen next.

[Ashlotte]

True relentless...And I wanted to refrain from making any snap judgments until they had finished telling the tale they were spinning here, but couldn't they have added something...ANYTHING to the episode like they afforded us in the second episode?

I know I know they dressed different and other minimal changes, but the spirit of the episode was basically copying the one before verbatim and leaving me with a distinct headache in the process. It still smacks too much of a stunt void of any intent at being a good bit of subversive art like the out of order episode airing from the first season or heck even the entire first episode of the first season itself.

Those to me were gutsy fun decisions that helped the show to gain fans...This is just...I dunno. :heh:

[relentlessflame]

It still smacks too much of a stunt void of any intent at being a good bit of subversive art like the out of order episode airing from the first season or heck even the entire first episode of the first season itself.

Those to me were gutsy fun decisions that helped the show to gain fans...This is just...I dunno. :heh:I should perhaps say that I loved the first episode of the first season, and also considered it to be pure genius, and that was totally without having read the novels or having any clue what it was about, and before getting to the end. (It probably helps that I've made/edited amateur movies before. :heh: ) But that's another one of the things about this show where fandom is split, even if people have sort of come around to it in retrospect. I guess maybe it's just hit-or-miss? But I do think you can't experiment without taking risks. Even if people see this as a failure in the long run, I'll still give them props for trying. :p (And yeah, not saying the episode itself couldn't have been better done. I'm more amazed with the concept and its impact than the specific execution, I guess.)

[C.A.]

I'm not sure how many of you had that feeling of your chest tightening up when Kyon fails to stop Haruhi from leaving. To me, this response is what Kyoani wants the audience to experience.

[Myssa Rei]

1/10.What the fuck, seriously.

I'm not "quitting", because I have too much to do here, but I'm so fucking angry.

Yes, we don't know anything, "Just As Planned", hahaha.

So yeah, we're probably not getting anything but Endless Eight this season.

Congrats, KyoAni, you've just lost another fan.


Oh so much drama. The Blood God is pleased with the rage you exhibit. Now if you'll excuse me, I have Grey Knights to call...

Kidding asde, this is pretty much the reason why I never come into a series (even a new iteration of a franchise I love!) with expectations; without any, you never get disappointed.

[aulzon]

Was there any real difference between this episode than the previous one? Weren't we watching the same episode but from a different angle?

At least in the previous episode we had some revelations but this pretty much felt like we were watching the same episode.

I mean is this really no different from watching a rerun with small changes.

[Myssa Rei]

Now for the episode... Hmm, I don't really pay too much attention to episode credits, but who was the director this time around? The bloom and flare effects from Episode 03 aren't there anymore, for example.

It's a relatively minor quibble, I admit. Especially when you compare that to Kyon's massive failure. Seriously, short of of the 'Give Her Summer Memories (of the ecchi kind-- yes, I play eroge, it's a common trope!)', you'd thought he'd figured out by now what really needs to be done.

Seriously, asking for help on his summer assignments from Haruhi isn't THAT bad. Even disregarding the novels, everyone but Kyon can get the feeling that, with the Group activities done, all that's left is for Haruhi to do something ONLY with Kyon... even if it's just helping with schoolwork.

[C.A.]

Kidding asde, this is pretty much the reason why I never come into a series (even a new iteration of a franchise I love!) with expectations; without any, you never get disappointed.I agree.

Even for original anime that's not an adaptation, people who expect things to happen almost always disappoint themselves.

Either they feel that the plot should go in a way they expect or certain characters to develop the way their think they should, they are the ones disappointing themselves when stuff eventually go a different way they expect.

Just a little but on animation for those who thinks these 3 episodes of Endless 8 looks too similar and that the animators are lazy:

An anime runs at 24 frames per second, each different frame takes hours to draw. Animators are paid by frames and they make measly cash.

Even if an episode has 10 minutes of totally unique frames, that's 14400 frames to draw. There is real work and effort in there to come up with characters interacting differently, wearing different clothes and stuff.

You can't just tilt a 2d picture and it becomes another angle, you have to redraw the entire picture over again.

Are they 'trolling' you, who watch the anime with no effort or are they 'trolling' themselves? The word 'troll' does not exist.Spoiler.The problem is Kyon never thought of it in the first place, its not that he doesn't want to voice out.

[Guillotaku]

I can recall a DVD release in my country of a movie with an special structure that permits a random presentation of multiples segments of the story, so you can never watch two times "the same movie" (in theory, can be more than 3 millions of differents versions).

Can you imagine if Kyoani can make a DVD with Endless Eight in the same fashion, with hundreds and hundreds of different versions of the same episode... with only a few chances of view the final resolution?

http://axxon.com.ar/not/178/c-1784040.htm (in spanish)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax2RpHZ572o (Trailler)

[Myssa Rei]

Was there any real difference between this episode than the previous one? Weren't we watching the same episode but from a different angle?.

Some lines were changed certainly.

[aulzon]

Just a little but on animation for those who thinks these 3 episodes of Endless 8 looks too similar and that the animators are lazy:

An anime runs at 24 frames per second, each different frame takes hours to draw. Animators are paid by frames and they make measly cash.

Even if an episode has 10 minutes of totally unique frames, that's 14400 frames to draw. There is real work and effort in there to come up with characters interacting differently, wearing different clothes and stuff.

You can't just tilt a 2d picture and it becomes another angle, you have to redraw the entire picture over again.


No one is naive enough to think you can recreate an animated show in a different angle just like that.

Just saying that there was no actual new information or plot development that was changed. Like it was a rerun.

[kb7]

I like the way KyoAni are approaching Endless Eight:

1. The Beginning of Endless Eight (norm)
2. The Realization of Endless Eight (deja vu)
3. The Frustration of Endless Eight (wft factor)
4. The Solution of Endless Eight (hopefully!) :heh:

Good storytelling to get the viewer involved.

[Sackett]

Well... this was a shock.

I just got done watching the subs, and here are my thoughts:

I thought using a 2nd episode to cover Endless Eight was great, and that going for a 3rd episode was genius. A fourth episode I am inclined to think is too much, and that's before seeing this iteration.

First, I think that the plan for this episode was to give almost exactly the same dialogue and plot as the second Endless Eight to an entirely different team of animators and director that would work independently from the first team- thus creating two episodes showing the loop with distinctly different styles.

This might have been effective enough to pull an irritated acceptance of a fourth Endless Eight episode- if this second team wasn't an epic failure.

I'll be blunt. The animation level was terrible- particularly coming on the heels of last week's episode.

Now I think the intention was with blurry drawing, and slightly "off" perspective, to emphasize the way this endless loop is starting to fray the minds of the SOS brigade. I got that- and if the characters had been finely drawn (like last week) to create a contrast it would have been effective. But this week we had human shaped blobs. Instead it felt cheesy and over the top.

Furthermore there was far too much use of stills and unmoving people. Again I think it was intended to create a surreal feeling- and there was one point were it was quite effective at doing that... but then they just kept on with the stills, until it just seemed like more lazy crappy animation.

Finally, the direction itself was way off. Kyon was too panicked by Mikuru's call, and Haruhi seemed off, so did Mikuru... and even Kozumi (his "I love you" line was terribly done- although I'll grant his "recursive" line was great), Yuki was okay (after all she's supposed to be off). It was clearly not just the voice actors either, it was the way the characters moved and stood. It all seemed over acted, and lacking any of the subtlety and depth that Haruhi usually has.

I think that overall describes this iteration. It was directed by someone who does not understand Haruhi. Instead of realizing that the brash abrasive over-the-top personality conceals more important subtle depths, this director accepted Haruhi at face value- and by giving her that depiction, short changed us all.

A well done iteration would have received a 7 ranking, despite my irritation. This bungling attempt receives a 4.5, which is mainly because I can see what the director was attempting to do, but I'm rounding down, because frankly, I expect more from Haruhi.

PS: I figure when it comes out on DVD I'll just skip this episode, as it will still work fine without it.

[Myssa Rei]

*snips*

Given what I've read (even from Jason Miao's post on the GAINAX panel interview about Gurren Lagann's series development and Stripey's entry on the nature of Script-to-Final Product adaptation), it's a CONSIDERABLE expense (on the order of several hundred thousand yen) for the company to redraw what's essentially a single story differently twice, nevermind four times. That's not something you do to 'troll' people, as essentially you're throwing money away just to tick people off.

[Peanutbutter003]

A question I really like to ask the seiyuus (if I do get the chance to ask them)

How did they voice the work for this arc? In one shot? Or they repeated some of their lines for a few episodes? :confused:

[C.A.]

Given what I've read (even from Jason Miao's post on the GAINAX panel interview about Gurren Lagann's series development and Stripey's entry on the nature of Script-to-Final Product adaptation), it's a CONSIDERABLE expense (on the order of several hundred thousand yen) for the company to redraw what's essentially a single story differently twice, nevermind four times. That's not something you do to 'troll' people, as essentially you're throwing money away just to tick people off.Yea, one of the main reasons GAINAX is always 'milking', is because they out do their own budgets by animating so rigorously.

FLCL had the famous scene of the animators complaining about their animation budget and amount of work.

The animation industry is run by pure passion of animators who doesn't even get well rewards.

[Myssa Rei]

A well done iteration would have received a 7 ranking, despite my irritation. This bungling attempt receives a 4.5, which is mainly because I can see what the director was attempting to do, but I'm rounding down, because frankly, I expect more from Haruhi.

THAT complaint really boils down, really, to who the animation director was for this episode. I'm waiting for a.f.k.'s sub for that. Tickle me surprised if it was someone from the team that did K-ON (which just ended... oooooh), as that'll probably generate a deluge of Kaisos-like raging (which is admittedly bush-leagues compared to the SERIOUS BUSINESS arguing I've witnessed -- for the young 'uns out there, I started in the EVA fandom, as evidenced by my sig).

The problem is Kyon never thought of it in the first place, its not that he doesn't want to voice out.

... You mean he doesn't think Haruhi wants to ride his balo... Oh darn, that joke's too corny even for this forum.

[relentlessflame]

THAT complaint really boils down, really, to who the animation director was for this episode. I'm waiting for a.f.k.'s sub for that. Tickle me surprised if it was someone from the team that did K-ON (which just ended... oooooh), as that'll probably generate a deluge of Kaisos-like raging (which is admittedly bush-leagues compared to the SERIOUS BUSINESS arguing I've witnessed -- for the young 'uns out there, I started in the EVA fandom, as evidenced by my sig).FYI, the animation director was Hiroyuki Takahashi (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=7692), who directed the animation of episode 10 of K-On and did the musical instrument design for that show.

But then again, that doesn't really tell us anything of value. The Animation Directors for all of these new Haruhi episodes also did some of the episodes of K-On. Futoshi Nishiya (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=37457) did episode 2 of K-On, and Mariko Takahashi (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=38090) did episodes 3 & 8. Plus, the person who directed the animation of last week's episode also directed the animation of first new Haruhi episode this season (which, if I recall, people didn't really like?). So... guilt by association in this case doesn't mean all that much. :heh:

[Solachinx]

Hmm, I'm split on this.

On one hand, my inner artist is jumping with glee because this is the type of stuff I like to do in my work (getting the audience involved in the story, using different story-telling elements, etc.) and I think this was a neAt decision on KyoAni's part.

On the other hand, my inner cynicist is worried that, because they're extending E8 to 4+ episodes, that they won't have enough time to air other stories i want to see like Disappearance and Sigh. My inner Kyon is hoping that this'll all be considered one episode, but he seriously doubts that.

The latter is winning, and I hope KyoAni ends this soon lest they face the wrath of a million fanboys and girls.

[Myssa Rei]

So... guilt by association in this case doesn't mean all that much. :heh:

I'm very familiar with the in-house staff shuffling that goes on in a series, though I personally was interested in who handled the art direction this time. As I mentioned, the lack of bloom and flare effects was noticeable.

The information gives those who are actively looking for scapegoats a target though. Yikes.

However, the sense of despair is really permeating the episodes.

I wish there were more major differences between what happened, though.


I think that the Despair IS a major point, since in the previous episode only Yuki's boredom was any clue to something wrong. Now, the characters are clued into the fact that they're trapped in a timeloop, with absolutely NOTHING they could do to break out of it. That a big Morale-killer.

[Jintor]

Just finished watching.

It's pretty good actually. The only problem I had with it (besides that it's cutting into future story time) is spoiler related.

The ending didn't feel like an 'ending'. It didn't have the same 'BAM! Story's done for this loop!' feel that the other two versions did.

However, the sense of despair is really permeating the episodes.

I wish there were more major differences between what happened, though.

PS: Ki - Sho - Ten - Ketsu - (An)

Though possibly more like Ki - Sho - Sho - Ten/Ketsu...

[quigonkenny]

However, the sense of despair is really permeating the episodes.

I wish there were more major differences between what happened, though.

PS: Ko - Sho - Ten - Ketsu - (An)

Though possibly more like Ko - Sho - Sho - Ten/Ketsu...
Son of a bitch, you beat me to it... I always knew the KyoAni staff were SZS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayonara,_Zetsubou-Sensei) fans (see page 10 of chapter 15, or Volume 2 page 71 of the Del Rey adaptation)...

But isn't is Ki / Sho / Ten / Ketsu?

EDIT: Yep, it's Kishotenketsu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kishotenketsu), all right...

[Jintor]

Oops, misread my manga.

Thinking about it, the 'An' would be Disappearance, wouldn't it?

I also wish their Deja Vu footage was even more surreal than it already is. Zetsubou Sensei has desensitized me to what is weird and what isn't, especially re: animation styles.

[Mirrinus]

Neither of them hate the fans at all. :heh: They're trying to make this a memorable anime. It's like I said earlier -- the question they had to ask themselves is "how do we top a show that we seen as one of the best late-night anime of all time?" And that's a tall order. With Yamakan gone, Series Director for the first round, this probably changed things as well. I see this as them trying to prevent the show from becoming "yet another disappointing sequel" in the grand scheme of things. I think some people are annoyed now (because they have a countdown timer in their heads until the end of the second season they've been awaiting for so long), but in the grand scheme of things I think it will work out. If nothing else, you can guarantee that this will be remembered, emulated, and jabbed-at for years to come.

Do they really look like a studio with a plan?

It's mostly the novel readers who seem to be upset. I was a novel reader. I had expectations. Look where that got me. KyoAni just did what they do best - they took my expectations, and turned them on itself. Look what they've done to my precious knowledge of the original story with just a few writing touches and a couple of lense flares. No novel reader is surprised when the expected things happen. Nobody is surprised when things go according to the story, even if the story is surprising. If KyoAni tells us that an episode will feature Ryoko trying to Kyon with a knife, or Kyon traveling back in time three years to meet Yuki and Future Mikuru, nobody is surprised. Because it's all part of the original story. But when they tell us that one little chapter will be repeated several times, everybody loses their minds! Introduce a little unexpected something and everything becomes shocking. KyoAni has been good at shocking us. And you know the thing about people being shocked?

It's funny.

[Jintor]

To a degree.

Even you would not like it if the rest of the season was just Endless Eight. D:

[relentlessflame]

Do they really look like a studio with a plan?

It's mostly the novel readers who seem to be upset. I was a novel reader. I had expectations. Look where that got me. KyoAni just did what they do best - they took my expectations, and turned them on itself. Look what they've done to my precious knowledge of the original story with just a few writing touches and a couple of lense flares. No novel reader is surprised when the expected things happen. Nobody is surprised when things go according to the story, even if the story is surprising. If KyoAni tells us that an episode will feature Ryoko trying to Kyon with a knife, or Kyon traveling back in time three years to meet Yuki and Future Mikuru, nobody is surprised. Because it's all part of the original story. But when they tell us that one little chapter will be repeated several times, everybody loses their minds! Introduce a little unexpected something and everything becomes shocking. KyoAni has been good at shocking us.In other words... yes, they really look like a studio with a plan! ...Just not the plan that some people wanted them to have. :heh:

[kniteowl]

Kyoani warned us from the very beginning...Just check the opening...

http://i39.tinypic.com/2a4sl1g.jpg

Count the number of "8" and you will see....4!!!! The number of episodes for Endless "Eight"...I discovered that while doing my usual review (http://www.cartoonleap.com/2009/07/02/haruhi-second-seasonthe-loop-from-hell-continues/)....:)

Good Eye... My theory was that Endless Eight would end on September 1st, Well 4th since episodes air on a Friday.

05/21 ep08 Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody
05/28 ep09 Mysteric Sign
06/04 ep10 Desert Island Syndrome (I)
06/11 ep11 Desert Island Syndrome (II)
06/18 ep12 Endless Eight
06/25 ep13 Endless Eight
07/02 ep14 Endless Eight
07/09 ep15 Endless Eight
07/16 ep16 Endless Eight
07/23 ep17 Endless Eight
07/30 ep18 Endless Eight
08/07 ep19 Endless Eight
08/14 ep20 Endless Eight
08/21 ep21 Endless Eight
08/28 ep22 Endless Eight
08/28 ep23 Endless Eight
08/28 ep24 Endless Eight
08/28 ep25 Endless Eight
08/28 ep26 Endless Eight
08/28 ep27 Endless Eight
08/28 ep28 Endless Eight
~The End~

Fixed

Don't you know that there is no September in Endless Eight lol.

THAT complaint really boils down, really, to who the animation director was for this episode. I'm waiting for a.f.k.'s sub for that. Tickle me surprised if it was someone from the team that did K-ON (which just ended... oooooh), as that'll probably generate a deluge of Kaisos-like raging (which is admittedly bush-leagues compared to the SERIOUS BUSINESS arguing I've witnessed -- for the young 'uns out there, I started in the EVA fandom, as evidenced by my sig).

You won't have to wait very long, from my perspective, since I haven't seen the episode, basically 90% of the text/subs have already been translated from previous episodes.

[Myssa Rei]

To a degree.

Even you would not like it if the rest of the season was just Endless Eight. D:

It would be frustratingly boring, enough that people would want to re-enact the events of Hinamizawa 1983. Which would mirror what I imagine Yuki REALLY is feeling.

Uso da! USO DAAA!

You won't have to wait very long, from my perspective, since I haven't seen the episode, basically 90% of the text/subs have already been translated from previous episodes.

I was more interested in the Staff Credits actually, but relentlessflame already answered that question.

[OverFunk]

I think this a bold move of the production team to have it this way, considering it is kinda hard to adapt this particular story to anime.

There you are, in your chair, unable to do anything to stop them from repeating the episode. So yeah.

[Animexcel]

Man, I just finished watching it. I was like.. dood, here we go again.. I wonder how the SOS is getting out of this one. *not a novel reader*

[SealkidHaruhiism]

Everyone reread the chapter

Everyone Cheer up.
Endless eight is ending Next week.
Endless Eight occurs in 4 parts in one Chapter!
Yuki also said 15,499 in the chapter and in the episode.

Please everyone reread it.

Endless eight is ending on July 09,2009 with 4 parts

Please Cheer up.

Season 2- BLR, Endless 8, The Sighs, and the Disappearance.
The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya will end the series!

01.Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody-Done
02.Endless Eight-Done
03.Endless Eight-Done
04.Endless Eight -Done
05.Endless Eight July 09,2009(Next new episode)
06.The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya July 16,2009

[dark-kyon]

i am in dispair for the people what only want what anime be same what source material.
i know what endless eight not finish in three cap.only for the people what was sure what finish in three and feel trolled now make this episode epic.
thank kyoani you are the troll master.
?bad dvd sales¿
this is the chance to see if otaku buy whatever thing of haruhi.

[sacundim]

6/10

July 2, 2009. Endless Eight: unfinished. Whatever. I don't care anymore. If this plot going to happen again, there's no point in looking forward to the next real episode. If a different episode ever comes, I guess I'll leave it to the "me" from then.

[Jintor]

I laughed.

[phizzy]

But it was hilarious didn't you get it I said I was melancholic AHAHAHAHAHA

[Myssa Rei]

I laughed.

The most sensible emotional reaction thus far.

Though... I think I'm not alone in thinking that the 'Solution' to Endless Eight also happens to be perfect material for bad porn doujinshi. Since, y'know, Haruhi's really waiting for Kyon to 'stick in' any excuse to end the loop.

Egads, that's just soo corny.

[phizzy]

WTF you ignored my hilarious joke... Do you want me to explain it is because the series is called the MELANCHOLY of Haruhi Suzumiya ????????

[relentlessflame]

Both of those jokes are just so horrible. Wow this thread is going nowhere fast. :heh:

Let us return to the topic at hand...

[mpt37]

As long as they animate Disappearance before the end of this year, I don't care how many versions of Endless Eight we get. However, if they are going to do 8+ eps of it, I hope they'll include some anime only activities to spice it up.

[Racketman]

A sinister part of me is hoping that the next ep isn't ending Endless Eight either.

Now that'd be ballsy.

[pagan poor]

It's like three different studios decided to do a version of "Endless Eight". 3 down.. how many more to go...

[lividsama]

Maybe they are trying to make us feel how Yuki is feeling. Watching the same thing over and over and over again....(no wonder she snapped in Desember. I'm at my limit after 3 episodes, and she'd watch this for over 500 years :p)

[Voitan]

I gave the episode a one. Sad considering how good episode 3 was.

It didn't cover new ground, and it was a chore to watch everything they did in episode 3 all over again.

This was a good opportunity to either end the arc and/or show us something new. This is lazy writing and none of the scenes excited me. There was a lot of still images in the episode.

[quigonkenny]

FYI, the animation director was Hiroyuki Takahashi (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=7692), who directed the animation of episode 10 of K-On and did the musical instrument design for that show.

But then again, that doesn't really tell us anything of value. The Animation Directors for all of these new Haruhi episodes also did some of the episodes of K-On. Futoshi Nishiya (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=37457) did episode 2 of K-On, and Mariko Takahashi (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=38090) did episodes 3 & 8. Plus, the person who directed the animation of last week's episode also directed the animation of first new Haruhi episode this season (which, if I recall, people didn't really like?). So... guilt by association in this case doesn't mean all that much. :heh:
Ok, so what I gathered from this is that each episode of E8 so far has had a different animation director. No surprise there, comparing the last two. Question is, how many animation directors does KyoAni have access to for Haruhi? Answer that and we may have the answer to how long this will last. And if so, I personally don't have a problem with it. Having each of their x directors do a version of E8 so that they're different from each other in a less obvious way is a pretty cool idea.

[relentlessflame]

Ok, so what I gathered from this is that each episode of E8 so far has had a different animation director. No surprise there, comparing the last two. Question is, how many animation directors does KyoAni have access to for Haruhi? Answer that and we may have the answer to how long this will last. And if so, I personally don't have a problem with it. Having each of their x directors do a version of E8 so that they're different from each other in a less obvious way is a pretty cool idea.Well, if you count the amount of people who worked as Animation Directors in K-On, I guess that'd make seven. But if you were asking about Episode Directors who worked on K-On, I guess there'd be... eight! Duh-duh-DUM.... :heh: (I was really hoping there'd be eight animation directors, though. :p )

Anyway, yeah, each episode had a different episode director/storyboard artist and animation director, although this version and the last one shared the same writer (which may explain the similarities?).

[Proto]

It didn't cover new ground, and it was a chore to watch everything they did in episode 3 all over again.


Geez, you're not the one having to go through it 14499 times, so why are you complaining? :p

[topboy]

Average rating for this episode right now is 5.06/10 ,worst rating ever for haruhi anime,
please vote for more than 8 to bring glory back to Kyoani.

[OkamiNoKaze]

bad ending again?, cripes, I think they're going for an even 15500 times, I think the still shots were there to throw you off, to make you think they're allowing time for a successful conclusion, or they used most of the budget for this episode on Itsuki's interesting dive into the pool. I also hope that these are all counted as technically one episode. What some said could be right, that this is not truly season 2, the true season 2 is yet to come. I hope I'm wrong though.

[Raiga]

Eh, I guess this is the "original source material" effect... I suppose I can't know for sure how I'd have reacted if I didn't know the way the original story ran, but I would likely be at least a bit more forgiving...

Yes, I understand the decision, and yes, it does work to get me more involved with how the characters are feeling... it just seems like they're idling away valuable time while they're at it.

[Vexx]

Average rating for this episode right now is 5.06/10 ,worst rating ever for haruhi anime,
please vote for more than 8 to bring glory back to Kyoani.

That is definitely NOT a reason to vote for more than 8. People should vote on the episode as they see fit, not because "its KyoAni", Jesus, or the 3 Stooges. By that line of thinking, I'd vote 10 for a can of poop if it was KyoAni authorized :)

I gave the episode a "7" as a standalone score... mostly because I was unsatisfied with the animation quality. I'll save my overall score for the series to decide whether I thought the multi-episode arc was a good idea or not.

[Jintor]

I really, honestly, want to see Kyon break down into a cry of "I'M IN DESPAIR! THIS SUMMER WITHOUT ENDING HAS LEFT ME IN DESPAIR!"

Partially because we were robbed of Sugita Tomokazu doing it during that episode of Zoku Zetsubou Sensei... and also because it would be hilarious.

[kniteowl]

wow just watched Mazui's sub... this episode is almost exactly the same text wise, everything they've said is almost a repeat of episode 13.

To me this felt like a wasted episode, if you wanted to see the new animation for this episode go ahead, apart from that don't watch this episode period.

There are no significant changes, except Yuki being interested at looking through the telescope, being a alien created humanoid with almost near inifinite knowledge I'd figure she wouldn't care but she must be THAT bored to check it out.

I was expecting at least a couple of significant new lines of text added, like

<snip>

[Arrnea]

Has anyone noticed that Yuki hasn't said

<snip>

Edit: kniteowl is a ninja >_>

[Proto]

There are no significant changes

If there had been significant changes you wouldn't be feeling this sensation of wasted time, desperation and dread for whatever they will put in in the same episode you are feeling. If you are feeling all of those, I'd say it is mission accomplished. Welcome to Yuki's world :p

[Myssa Rei]

I gave the episode a "7" as a standalone score... mostly because I was unsatisfied with the animation quality. I'll save my overall score for the series to decide whether I thought the multi-episode arc was a good idea or not.

Given my personal humor, very rarely will a series get more than a 7 from me. It's just how I am, I guess, or maybe I've mellowed out in the two decades or so that I've been watching anime. Haruhi is no exception.

This was a good opportunity to either end the arc and/or show us something new. This is lazy writing and none of the scenes excited me.

I'd point to relentlessflame's answer to my earlier question about the Anime Director/Scriptwriter/Episode Director. There ARE new material, but it's subtle, though inevitably inconsequential compared to the atmosphere of palpable boredom and despair in the episode.

[DoraTora!]

You know what? I think I actually want them to do it again next episode.

The size of the following shitstorm would almost make all this worth it.

[Myssa Rei]

You know what? I think I actually want them to do it again next episode.

The size of the following shitstorm would almost make all this worth it.


Will Kadokawa's HQ survive afterwards though? ;)

The clock is ticking. Frankly I got frustrated, not at the repeat itself, but with KYON. I mean, seriously, what he needed to do seemed to be obvious to everyone but his bullheaded self. He just doesn't... want to do anything on his own, ne? I guess spontaeneity isn't his strong point.

[Vexx]

I think much of the story establishes quite clearly that Kyon is an obstinate butthead :) ... but some sort of strong personality is required for his fate.

[Myssa Rei]

Must. Not. Make. Late-night. One-on-One. Study Session. Joke.

I noticed we're still missing a few important lines from Yuki.

[Archon_Wing]

rofl I thought I was watching the same episode again.

Judging by Yuki's count, we willh have 15000+ episodes of this to illustrate all the situations that happened. And different fan service too!

I wholeheatedly give this a 1! Well deserved. :)

[Forever]

This is the first time I ever gave a 1 to haruhi episode but this one really deserves it. This is one repeat too much.

If the next episode does not end endless eight, I am seriously considering stop watching....

[synaesthetic]

I'm so conflicted.

The same things happened with minor variations.

I should consider KyoAni lazy for this.

But they redrew practically everything. If there was any stock footage used at all, I couldn't tell.

KyoAni is clearly trolling their fans. Where's the Picard facepalm jpeg when you need it... ?

[Myssa Rei]

But they redrew practically everything. If there was any stock footage used at all, I couldn't tell.

KyoAni is clearly trolling their fans.


That's the thing, there wasn't a single bit of stock footage at all. Which makes this VERY expensive if it was just to troll viewers.

Also, what we're having here is very likely nothing compared to the firestorm going on in 2ch right now.

[Ardee]

Bad news, everyone - I just checked my calendar and today is June 19th. We just *think* we're being played with by KyoAni...

For those wondering about earlier time loop stories, the closest I've read is Philip Dick's "A Little Something for us Tempunauts". If I remember it right, unlike groundhog day, and like E8, the main characters only have a little deja vu, or maybe just one does. I think he ends up deciding that the only way to free the world from the loop they created is to sabotage their time machine so they'll die. But I don't remember if he succeeds. Maybe his colleagues stop him because they don't know about the loop, and it ends with the assumption that it will be that way forever.

I for one don't mind this drawn-out approach: as a comparison, I've re-watched the 80's He-Man cartoon (aimed at 5-8 year olds) - it has some episodes that set up some really interesting scenarios that, with more time and an older audience, could be tunred into something really dramatic. But then they run out of time and have a mostly pointless deus ex machina ending. So I completely buy the idea that drawing this out is a good way to give drama to it. (when each week the world is in dire straights, how do you make one week more dire than the last?)

[Reckoner]

Guys, just because the studio was trying to be creative doesn't mean that their creativity is well done. This episode earns a 2/10, and I have never rated a Haruhi episode below a 7/10. I'm just going to act like this episode never existed in the first place.

I find it incredibly stupid that they had to rehash the same idea all over again. We already got the point that it seems to be a hopeless situation, in which we just want to get out of this recursion of time. I suppose what really bothers me is that this offered no extra material. Even though last episode was also a recursion episode, we still got to see new things.

They do not need to animate an episode for the audience to understand that this is what has been happening over and over again.

This episode was EPIC FAIL. I didn't wait these years to see 4 or possibly more endless night episodes..............

[Myssa Rei]

Still surprised that people haven't been figuratively screaming BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD yet. There's clearly disappointment (especially considering disproportionate amount of low scores given versus middling or high ones) but... I was expecting fire and brimstone. Ah.

Mmm, Yuki, what makes you tick? Why haven't you gone Hinamizawa Syndrome level 5 yet and murdered everyone? Or is your revenge for the mind-numbing repretition reserved for later in the series?

[kniteowl]

I actually haven't given this episode a score yet, but it's probably the worst episode of Haruhi for me yet (I'm one of those people who didn't like Episode 00, I still haven't actually completely watch that episode so I might be contradicting myself lol)... but if we were to consider that all E8 episodes were one episode then it'd probably get a higher score.

Heck I was expecting an almost an entire repeat of the previous episode, all I wanted was One Significant line of text they skiped from the short story that wasn't included last episode and I would've been happy and given it a decent score, at least that way we're actually going somewhere... although very slowly, although it'd make sense since 15,000 + iteration have already occured.

I also wondered why Kyon hasn't pointed out why Yuki isn't holding or reading a book... when she isn't occupied with something else, she ALWAYS holding a book to read that might've been a huge give away that something is definitely not right.

Mmm, Yuki, what makes you tick? Why haven't you gone Hinamizawa Syndrome level 5 yet and murdered everyone? Or is your revenge for the mind-numbing repretition reserved for later in the series?

I assume you haven't reed the novels yet so do you want a hint to why?

She actually likes the E8 Loop even though she's bored and has nothing read, why she likes it would be more spoiler then hint... well like is too strong a word, at the very least she doesn't hate the E8 loop lol if she did well she'd probably do what you've just asked

[Jiggy]

Frankly I got frustrated, not at the repeat itself, but with KYON. I mean, seriously, what he needed to do seemed to be obvious to everyone but his bullheaded self. He just doesn't... want to do anything on his own, ne? I guess spontaeneity isn't his strong point.I don't usually get emotionally invested, but as a distant observer I think you've basically nailed it.

Kyon complains about Haruhi magnifying minor things to a universal scale, but it's pretty much projection on his part; at least she doesn't know her subconscious wishes are coming to fruition, but Kyon doesn't have that excuse. He's fully aware that time will keep looping and Yuki will keep suffering if he doesn't do something as simple and minor as asking her for advice (or listening to Itsuki's), but lets it continue anyway.

[Archon_Wing]

Mmm, Yuki, what makes you tick? Why haven't you gone Hinamizawa Syndrome level 5 yet and murdered everyone?

That would utterly own, and be the best episode ever. :D

[sacundim]

I suspect that five years from now, this episode will be remembered as truly epic, but nobody will actually wish to watch it again...

[Silent_One]

Only fanboys/girls would give this episode high rating.I think this whole season has been a waste of time to watch but this episode was beyond the simple mediocracy of episode 1-3 it was downright boring I didn't even watch it all. I have never seen an anime with a good first season have such a bad second season.I hope it gets better but not much hope at this point ,its going to my when I am bored as hell watch list :heh:

[Eak]

Sadly, what they are doing is good for merchandise but a kick to fans who want new content.


Sadly (number 2)... guys, we've already used up what, 4 episodes now? Only 9 more episodes until another possibly long ass wait (then again, I predict maybe one or two OVA's to come out soonish). I rated it a 3/10... I am a sucker for new looks and presentation.

[Jintor]

I don't usually get emotionally invested, but as a distant observer I think you've basically nailed it.

Kyon complains about Haruhi magnifying minor things to a universal scale, but it's pretty much projection on his part; at least she doesn't know her subconscious wishes are coming to fruition, but Kyon doesn't have that excuse. He's fully aware that time will keep looping and Yuki will keep suffering if he doesn't do something as simple and minor as asking her for advice (or listening to Itsuki's), but lets it continue anyway.

It's not that he's 'letting' it happen, it's that he simply doesn't take into consideration that it will help at all.

[Myssa Rei]

I assume you haven't reed the novels yet so do you want a hint to why?

Actually I have read the novels. ;) The twist is fairly obvious for the observant.

Still, it's fun to throw out that thought, given the hellish timeloop that's going on.


Only fanboys/girls would give this episode high rating.

I never give any series a score higher than 7. Or lower. Heh.

For all the anger and disappointment though, you have to hand it to the studio. The episode is BEING TALKED ABOUT. Sure, it's mostly cursing the decision to continue with the time loop, but people are forgetting that any kind of publicity is good publicity.

[Proto]

Heck I was expecting an almost an entire repeat of the previous episode, all I wanted was One Significant line of text they skiped from the short story that wasn't included last episode and I would've been happy and given it a decent score, at least that way we're actually going somewhere... although very slowly, although it'd make sense since 15,000 + iteration have already occured.

Well, because that's th3 trigger, you silly.

[khryoleoz]

I still had a blast watching this episode. I'm enjoying that each scene to the degree that it covered the same events had subtle differences that were pronounced. I especially preferred Kyon's reaction this time to hearing Koizumi with Mikuru over the phone, yelling at him as he affirmed he'd meet them and was leaving right that moment.

The reactions on this forum have been interesting to say the least. KyoAni is certainly proving who the fans of the show are for what the show does and who are not for one reason or another. One attempting to be creative is no guarantee of success that the creative output will be well executed is certainly true. But equally true is that viewers are a fickle lot and go into a show with preconceived notions, biases, and expectations. Nobody including KyoAni can be expected to win over everybody universally, and that there had been many people they have not won over is no indication that they have failed in a proper execution according to their intentions and in a way that pleases people whom they had hoped it would please.

Personally, I do like how the episodes are in a certain sense effectively keeping the interest of novel readers, if not all of them then those who do find value in these episodes offering something fresh by not letting those in the know know when they'll have the resolution that they're anticipating. To some degree I can sympathize with viewers who haven't followed the novel and don't quite get what's happening. But I consider the Endless Eight arc to be a very well articulated and truly heartfelt love letter to faithful fans of the novel series, among which I count myself. Thank you KyoAni for taking me into consideration, even if at the consequential preclusion of others.

[allengator]

Wow, part the third, huh? I have no idea why, but I laughed throughout this episode. Maybe its a combination of insomnia and tylenol. Then I saw the Youtube clip of Hosaka and completely went mental. Just catching my breath.

Hopefully there won't be a huge gap inbetween seasons again, because if we have to wait another three years for "Disappearance", then it'll be a long, long wait. Oddly, though, I am enjoying myself with this arc. I'd love to see how far Kyoani takes this...or perhaps not. It's a pickle, I tell ya.

Got to admit though, its got people talking. I bet that's the point of this.

[Jintor]

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m298/Lumbargo/zetsuboukyoncopy.jpg

[Shuyen]

Even though there's slight progression throughout each cycle of the time loop thing... I seriously can't stand it anymore... This is getting so repetitive. MAKE IT STOP ;-;

Other than that, the animation and change of outfits was pretty good as usual. :)

[Karlson]

You know...I'm a pretty casual Haruhi fan. I havn't read the light novels. So I should be quite literally pissed off right now but I'm laughing so hard at what Kyoani just pulled off here. Only Haruhi could get away with doing something like that not once but twice. :heh:

So much epic fail yet so much awesomeness just for the aftermath insanity and the lawl factor that ensued alone and it may not even end in the next episode. But nothing takes my interest in an episode and lays a smackdown on it quite like the repetition displayed here did. Literally, I think my brain completely shutdown (or came close to that point) part-way through this episode as I became unable to spot any real differences anymore outside of the altering of a few lines and scenes and the last part.

Feeling of "Deja vu." Well Kyoani certainly has succeeded in driving that thought process through my head watching this arc.

[SSJiffy]

First I was like >: D then I was like >:O, and then >:[.
A 1 to this episode.

[pigoz]

Imho we'll get Endless Eight until the end of August :)

[therationalpi]

Should I be praising or chastising KyoAni for violating the Rule of Three (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_three_(writing))? I honestly am not sure. They caught me off guard, for certain. In fact, they've caught me off guard twice. That's impressive, since I usually am pretty keen on things that like.

I'm not going to rate this episode, since I'm torn between 9 and 1, and neither a four or 5 would reflect my opinion.

[Kikuchi]

My reaction after this episode was seriously like this :

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e212/soutenbalmung/idontcare.jpg

I don't think the episode was bad, but if they wanted me to get frustrated they totally succeeded indeed.

What upsets me the most isn't that it repeats iteself like this, but more the fact that they could use those episode to do something ELSE.

Rated 4/10, under normal circumstances it would probably have been 6 or 7.

[chinaboat]

If this wasn't Haruhi it would have been the last episode I would ever bother watching my reaction at the end was a mix of frustration and disgust - The rule of three is pretty solid and writers violate it at their peril; I wonder how many new viewers who haven't read the novels are going are going to abandon the series now.

On the plus side, I'm starting to like the new OP song but the animation is still too much "superheroes to the rescue" for my taste and I loved Yuki in the green bathing suit - extremely kawaii.

[Clawn]

I gave this episode a terrifically high rating simply because it caused me to feel such emotion. This time, the anguish I felt as Haruhi slipped out the door and the loop was allowed to restart was exponentially more powerful than it was in the last episode. And it's very, very rare that any movie, book, or tv show can make me feel that strongly about anything.

I think this episode was completely necessary in order to cause the viewer to empathize with Kyon in those final seconds so much more than they would have if we had simply had a single episode of loopage.

However, I understand why some would get a little heated over this. Most tv shows wouldn't dare to make their audience feel some emotion other than a positive one. ;)

[Jintor]

That's why I'm hesitant to rate this episode - they've clearly succeeded in making me very angry. But is that a good thing, or a bad thing? If they were aiming for it, then do they get a good rating, or a bad rating?

[Green²]

Even though there's slight progression throughout each cycle of the time loop thing... I seriously can't stand it anymore... This is getting so repetitive. MAKE IT STOP ;-;

What may seem like progression to us, for them, that very progression may have already occurred in throughout the previous time loops thousands of times. :p

[monir]

However, I understand why some would get a little heated over this. Most tv shows wouldn't dare to make their audience feel some emotion other than a positive one. ;)
Which is why some of us still believe this series will continue to push the limits for what is considered norm. I'm sure a lot of us Haruhi fans can recall some of the reaction to the very first episode of Haruhi from the previous season. It was somewhat similar to here. That said, however, I draw my line for the need to empathize with melancholic despair at three. A repeat of this won't bode very well.

[ucit]

KyoAni lose the TPDD ^o^

[Shiroth]

Wow, and who ever thought a Haruhi episode would get this many 1's out of 10. Nice going Kyoani.

[daisekihan]

I wasn't trying to say that, just because their deviating from the books, it's no good. I'm trying to say that they've created a fundamentally experience that is, to me at least, not an artistic success. What they are obviously trying is to make us feel Yuki's growing frustration at the constantly repeating two weeks. However, the show is from Kyon's perspective, so we should be looking at Yuki through the lens of Kyon's ignorance instead of feeling like we actually are Yuki.

If you are the kind of person who likes the Theater of the Absurd or that movie "Funny Games", then I guess we can boil it down to a simple difference of taste. But I just want to point out that yes, I get why they're doing it and why it might be seen and clever and experimental, but no, I don't think it succeeds as art and definitely not as entertainment.

[paladinenvec]

My opinion of this chapter can be resumed in 4 words!
Fucking painful to watch!!!
I didn't even bothered to watch the chapter entirely i just saw first if the ending was different, but hell no...Kyon gave up again.

[thundrakkon]

It was a waste of time. This is a totally forgettable episode, as it added nothing new to the last episode, and it was essentially a clone. I feel I just lost a part of my life. At least offer something significantly new, or don't bother animating it in the first place.

The last episode at least brought some surprises. They should really have used this episode to conclude this arc. I pray for the safety of those who made the decision to keep repeating like this because some crazy Haruhi fan in Japan might go over the edge due to this, essentially because they wasted time repeating the same storyline instead of offering new content that they are now not going to animate.

I will recommend for my friends to skip this episode, or else they'll get pissed off at me for wasting their time.

[Ikonomi]

I thought this episode was pretty hilarious. I just couldn't believe they were ballsy enough to do this.

I found it interesting to compare differences between 3 and 4. Even though they portrayed the same scenes, the direction seemed totally different -- the dialogue, the art. The decision to use still montages to gloss over things we've seen 15,499 times was interesting. It was like watching two different directors handle the same source material.

Something in-universe that struck me was how differently the characters behaved in each episode. When I saw episode 3, I assumed that was the first time everyone realized they were repeating that two-week period. That explained why they were so downcast the entire time. But now I realize they could have repeated that realization any number of times -- once, twice, starting from the second loop, or anywhere in between. I wonder which it is. I also got the impression that the whole world is operating on some sort of random number generator. Everything is reset to August 17th, the same August 17th every time, but the little details turn out differently. The characters involved react differently to the same situations, the weather seems to be slightly different (Kyon lying shirtless in the heat, as opposed to sitting in relative comfort fully clothed), Haruhi managed to pick out nine (that we've seen) different yukatas that all look good. And of course there's Yuki's recount of all 15,499 loops.

It seems to me that a closed system, fed the same data, will produce the same outcomes each time. That doesn't seem to be the case and speaks for the complexity of the world. I don't know if the author and animators intended to provoke this kind of thought, but... Well, yeah, I guess it was intended. That's why I like Haruhi: The series genuinely makes me think.

And there's always Haruhi in white. And Mikuru was drawn especially awesomely this time around. They're just too cute for words.

[Arrnea]

Something in-universe that struck me was how differently the characters behaved in each episode. When I saw episode 3, I assumed that was the first time everyone realized they were repeating that two-week period. That explained why they were so downcast the entire time. But now I realize they could have repeated that realization any number of times -- once, twice, starting from the second loop, or anywhere in between. I wonder which it is.
I could answer this (the bolded question) in a spoiler tag, but it would get deleted.
Read the novel if you really want to find out.

Also, I still gave the episode 8/10.
If they do the same thing again next week, that will drop a lot.

[Frailty]

maybe this is kyoani's way of saying to anime-watchers to "read the light novels" -.-

[Ikonomi]

I could answer this (the bolded question) in a spoiler tag, but it would get deleted.
Read the novel if you really want to find out.

Also, I still gave the episode 8/10.
If they do the same thing again next week, that will drop a lot.

It's to my detriment that I haven't read the novels. I'm just another anime watcher trying to make it in this world. Haruhi is the only instance I can think of where I didn't read the book first. :P

[Blaat]

I feel sorry to those who are going to marathon this series, I truly do.

[Bri]

This episode was a gutsy move and I can only respect that. There is already a lot of "playing it safe" in anime so an experiment like this is pretty amazing.

What worries me a bit is the lack of consistent quality animation. The first season was very solid in that regard. Maybe it's the poor quality of the broadcasts this time, I'm not sure.

[Sheba]

maybe this is kyoani's way of saying to anime-watchers to "read the light novels" -.-

Actually, those who did got swept by this move. It's like the studio used the readers' knowledge against them.

[seiji_kun]

Having read the novels, here I thougth it wouldn't last longer then 2 episodes and it getting 3 episodes didn't bother me and while I do want to applaud them for beeing so ballsy I feel a bit dissapointed cause they're waisting episodes that could've been used better.

Well it did make me laugh like hell at the end cause I felt majorly owned when Kyon didn't deliver like I expected. So at least this episode was a good laugh all in all. Guess the only thing left for episode 4 is playing spot the difference.

[Shiroth]

I feel sorry to those who are going to marathon this series, I truly do.
:heh:

I don't understand why people are getting so up-tight about it. I mean this is Haruhi. The show is know for something like this, and i respect Kyoani for having the balls for actually going this far and doing it. Thumbs up to them.