The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 5] [Archive] - Page 3

Kaioshin Sama

2009-07-10, 03:57

No one is, unfortunately there's nothing any of us can do at this point but ride out the storm -- and indeed, it's just that, one that's been brought about by the guys with the wallets. Or for the people like me, find the differences per iteration and wonder which director is next in line.

The real mystery in my mind is how how Kadokawa's Marketing rationalized the decision behind Endless Eight.

Well considering how batshit crazy, absurd and seemingly self-sabotaging Kadokawa's marketing department seems to be (trying to hide even the existence of a second season) I'm starting to wonder if they aren't trying to be The Producers. It's summer time for Haruhi. :eyespin:

lazybum

2009-07-10, 04:01

The real mystery in my mind is how how Kadokawa's Marketing rationalized the decision behind Endless Eight.

They probably concluded that the demand for this series was inelastic and that people will probably still continue watching it even if they slacked off and did bullshit like this due to all the hype.

I demand nothing short of an epic closure to this arc to justify the past 4 eps.

Kaioshin Sama

2009-07-10, 04:11

Indeed, like the series itself, the discussion seems to be going in circles and coming back to the same conclusions and mysteries. Little new content episode equals little new content threads. I'm all tapped out for this one folks. Just nothing left to discuss.

Roger Rambo

2009-07-10, 04:16

They probably concluded that the demand for this series was inelastic and that people will probably still continue watching it even if they slacked off and did bullshit like this due to all the hype.

I demand nothing short of an epic closure to this arc to justify the past 4 eps.which might make sense if the anime producers made money off TV viewers. As far as I understand the anime industry, they don't. They need to make money of merchandising.

I'm not sure this kind of drama is necessarily gonna translate into DVD sales.

Malkuth

2009-07-10, 04:38

If the poll above is at least indicative, E8 DVD sales will suffer a 80% drop. How brilliant would then seem their innovative approach? Alienating to this extreme from the average fan, is a really idiotic strategy. They must now into great lengths to repair all the damaged caused with the delay of the E8, the 10th novel (on Kadokawa's side) and the repetition and "Yui-fication" of Haruhi (on KyoAni side).

By the way, the last point was not stressed enough, I was going through some blog's screencaps and I got confused at some point while looking at Haruhi stills and thought for a moment that they were from K-On! Let's face it Haruhi in the last episode bears more resemblance to Yui then her original design from the novels and the original run. In a similar vein a lot of elements bled into Haruhi from Key, which I suffered through 4 damn anime :heh:

Daniel E.

2009-07-10, 04:47

I wouldn't be surprised if shirts with a "I Survived Endless Eight" message on them were to appear for sale in the future. :p

I for once would love to have one! :meh:

IIKII

2009-07-10, 06:01

Kyoani is just taking a risk in this one. It's like how they took the risk of putting the episodes in an mix up way in season one. In the second season, they take the risk of repeating events.

It is kinda interesting and they dont really reuse the same animations. It also seem there is a different focus in each episode like how they focus mainly on yuki's expression in this episode.

Arrnea

2009-07-10, 06:06

Only one problem with this though... if everybody was killed, would the two weeks actually repeat itself you think? Or would everything that's keeping Haruhi from reshaping the entire world be gone, leaving the loop broken in an entirely different way.
Well, if Koizumi's explanation of the recursion of time is to be believed, what has happened here is that a section of time (from the 17th to the 31st) has been cut out of the normal flow of time, and is being looped.

Now they haven't yet explained if this loop is constantly regulated by Haruhi (that is, if Haruhi dies, the loop ends), or if it was merely initiated by Haruhi, and is self-regulating (in this case, if Haruhi dies, the loop would continue looping). At this point, they could probably sell it either way, since if I recall correctly, the novel didn't have anything to say on this particular distinction.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-10, 06:15

So, I actually watched the episode.

FFFFFFFF

It was GOOD.

...Can I change my vote? :heh:

Despite the fact that's it's just MORE Endless Eight, I'm a complete sucker for random incomprehensible symbolism like that plane.

Even if they don't explain it, I'm just happy that they put something in that I like. :heh:

Of course, if they do plan to explain it, that means they really are planning something that really will make us all go "...oh".

I'd really like for them to end it next week, but I don't think they can. 6 seems to be the correct number, if they want to continue the developments shown here... unless they do another E8 3. (Speaking of which, is that even worth watching, or can I skip it?)

Lastly, the last scene with the theater made the entire episode for me. Holy shit the awesome. I would have rated the episode a 10 just for that, had I actually watched it before rating. >_>

Say what you want, I'm happy and entertained.

Now please give me my tenth novel.

paraalso

2009-07-10, 06:25

One thing is for sure. The people with money invested in the franchise can't be happy about this turn of events and the fans reaction. I expect some heads are or will be rolling soon. I don't see any way this can turn out well for them financially, so trolling by someone is the most obvious answer. Now the interesting question is who had enough power to actually make this happen, and not lose their job. :p

Personally I find it annoying, but not the end of the world, as Haruhi was never really as important to me as an anime as it seems to be for other people. It was still enjoyable, but I really can't be bothered with this anymore, and I'm simply dropping it and looking for better series. There are already several other series this season I'm enjoying a lot more.

I wish I could have seen what the hype about the later novel content was about though. I haven't read the novels myself, but I've heard good things about them.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-10, 06:27

*snips*

You do know why the rest of us actually watch the episode before going here right? To avoid looking like an arse because one's mouth blows off before actually having context for a complaint.

I love my laptop. I love my office's wireless network I can leech off to get raws...

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-10, 06:30

You do know why the rest of us actually watch the episode before going here right? To avoid looking like an arse because one's mouth blows off before actually having context for a complaint.

...My only complaint prior to this was that they STILL haven't ended it, nothing about the episode itself. That's still my only complaint.

I only rated it a 1 because all the cool kids were doing it, and I didn't feel like watching it myself yesterday.

C.A.

2009-07-10, 06:33

And there are quite a few of us who are only going to vote when Endless Eight actually finishes.

Arrnea

2009-07-10, 06:35

I only rated it a 1 because all the cool kids were doing it, and I didn't feel like watching it myself yesterday.
I wonder how many more people rated this a 1 without watching it, based upon the fact that the loop hasn't ended yet.

C.A.

2009-07-10, 06:41

People usually say not to judge a book by its cover, but recently people judge without even looking at the cover.

We are suppose to judge only after looking through the entire book to be fair.

Malkuth

2009-07-10, 06:56

I wonder how many more people rated this a 1 without watching it, based upon the fact that the loop hasn't ended yet.

How many 10s were there before actually watching it ???

In my case, I did watch it before voting :heh:

Watching it subbed; still, annoyed the hell out of me, not only because of the iteration of a mediocre story, but also because Haruhi is mutating into a mix of Clannad and K-On! At least in the hands of another studio with a better quality (IMHO) track, I would be more forgiving to the iterations :heh:

joshualimm

2009-07-10, 06:57

I enjoyed the first 2 episodes of ∞8, but by the 3rd episode, I was absolutely hating it.

This week, however, I'm actually enjoying it a little more than I did the 3rd.

NICE PLANE

Jintor

2009-07-10, 06:59

I wonder how many votes were just put down just to make it the most horribly voted episode.

Justin Kim

2009-07-10, 07:04

Don't tell me there are going to be 8 episodes -_-. OH wouldn't we all love the irony! Not only that, but lmfao I don't even think they are trying. Just putting in new artwork, and then replaying the dialogue over and over.

dr.koljan

2009-07-10, 07:15

I - Boring.
II - OMG Cool.
III - WTF not again.
IV - Okay...

I wonder what KyoAni are trying to accomplish. If they want us to fall in despair and hate Haruhi, then it's their major success. Which ultimately leads to this (http://s.lurkmore.ru/images/3/3c/Valeri_Syutkin_no_Yuutsu.jpg) picture.

Sackett

2009-07-10, 07:16

I haven't even paid attention to the voice work from episode to episode, are they actually using the same audio track over and over again with different animation? And if not, how frustrating it must have been for the voice actors to record the same dialogue so many times over.

No, it's been noticeably different each time.

Maybe, maybe this episode they might have reused a few lines from the 2nd Endless Eight, but I don't think so. I'm only saying maybe because I haven't watched the 2nd episode in since the afk sub came out so my memory isn't that great of the voice acting vs this weeks.

I certainly didn't notice a line and say: "Ah that's a reuse of an older recording".

And last week (week 3) was clearly different voice acting than week 2, or this week (week 4), and week 4, 3 and 2 were obviously different from week 1.

npal

2009-07-10, 07:23

1. Kyoani does not in fact take ANY risks whatsoever. I can bet the DVD sales and other merchandise will hardly suffer anything saleswise. Damn, I don't like the whole Endless Eight stupid idea but if a Haruhi figure clicked, I'd buy it despite the Endless Troll. I can see the same going on for a number of people into collecting merchandise or DVDs, let alone the fanboys that will buy just about anything as long as it's this. Who won't buy? Who knows... maybe the people who wouldn't be buying anyway or the ones totally sitting on the fence in general?

2. To tell the honest truth, I seriously don't believe the episodes are "Painful" to watch, aka 1/10, at least not yet. Despite the ridiculous recycle, there's still moe, the dialogue is the same, but the seiyuu are basically doing new recordings on that, the images are fresh, and this is first of all a friggin moe series and it delivers moe so I always find it easy to watch. It's once you realise WHAT it is you're watching that you can't shake the feeling of failure. That's why I didn't vote 1 for the previous episode and I can't vote 1/10 in this one, but yeah, 2/10 is as far as I can possibly see the episodes get unless they REALLY mess up. Although the fact that so many people oppose the whole Kyoani bet is wonderful to behold on the vote count. Based on personal experience, I expected only fanboys around this part of the forum.

I wonder how many votes were just put down just to make it the most horribly voted episode.

2b. I wonder how many votes were just put down just to oppose the 1s.

3. The thing is different in looks but the same in essence. Anything else is trying to rationalize the insanity of watching the same thing over and over again. Damn, if ANY other moe series was doing that people would have dropped it already. K-ON's episode 10 was getting bashed for far less, but then, it was K-ON, not Haruhi. Haruhi is modern art, the bigger picture HAS to be SOMEPLACE there... /sarcasm

4. The fact that the loop resolution is so terribly simple and mundane will only make the whole arc feel ridiculous. Anyone who expects something grand (provided they don't stray there from the novel, too) can just save himself the pain and go read the related chapter.

Sackett

2009-07-10, 07:30

That was a bit harsh so I re-edited the post to point out that I am sympathetic to what you guys are going through. I may not see what the huge deal with this series is, but I don't think anyone deserves this.

I didn't, I watched only the second and third episode of the series. It was only mere coincedence that I found out that Haruhi was repeating itself while reading Random Curiosity.

I am not trying to I am merely pointing out that if you hate what's going on you should stop watching it. I mean except for a couple of people who are claiming this episode is a wonderful show of symbolism everyone despises this episode.

So next time check to see if Endless Eight ends or not, if it doesn't than don't watch it. Apparently their isn't much difference between the episodes so I don't see what skipping the next one would do.

This is amazing...

by doing this stunt, they've managed to draw non-Haruhi viewers into the Haruhi forums/universe.

It's... well not genius... or maybe it's evil genius. Yes, Evil Genius.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Shiroth

2009-07-10, 07:32

I wonder if all those people who voted 1 actually watched the episode. :heh:

Did everyone catch the back of Mikuru's t-shirt? That was a nice add-in.

Justin Kim

2009-07-10, 07:33

HOW ABOUT THIS? This is the production team's evil plot to start the Haruhi version of rick-roll madness online! A new era for Haruhi Rick Rolls!

npal

2009-07-10, 07:36

I wonder if all those people who voted 1 actually watched the episode. :heh:

I wonder if all those people who voted 10 actually watched the episode :heh:

Must we get into these arguments all the time?

Roger Rambo

2009-07-10, 07:43

episode was better than some of the iterations of endless 8. I'll give it that.

Whats with that plane?

Vegard Aune

2009-07-10, 07:49

The episode itself was great. At least worth an 8/10.
The fact that this will continue for at least one more episode is freaking retarded and makes me want to give it a 1/10. Three episodes of Endless Eight was already pushing it, and now we're getting FIVE? This is just insanely frustrating.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-10, 08:00

Three episodes of Endless Eight was already pushing it, and now we're getting FIVE? This is just insanely frustrating.

Actually, some of us are betting that Endless Eight gets SIX episodes at least, as there are still some KyoAni directors who haven't contributed yet in either the Animation Direction or Episode Direction chairs.

FatalMemory

2009-07-10, 08:02

While the previous iteration probably offered the least new content, I didn't find the animation style or direction inferior to the episodes adjacent.

And while I preferred the brotherly hug shared between Koizumi and Kyon, Kyon's reaction to the suggestion of a confession in the newer episodes seemed far more fitting for his character.

jonli

2009-07-10, 08:02

Vegard Aune

2009-07-10, 08:04

Actually, some of us are betting that Endless Eight gets SIX episodes at least, as there are still some KyoAni directors who haven't contributed yet in either the Animation Direction or Episode Direction chairs.
Yeah, I saw that someone on 2ch was apparently claiming that it would be 6 episodes, and additionally, that the fourth novel would specifically not be animated in this season, in which case I can only say...
WHAT THE HELL KADOKAWA?! This is ridicculous even for them. Are they trying to anger the entire fanbase or something?

Vampire

2009-07-10, 08:08

You know, every time they get to the part where Haruhi leaves and Kyon suddenly gets up, I get excited for nothing. Every time it comes to it, I always imagine him doing some HaruhixKyon crap but it always ends the same; it makes my blood boil to see Kyon say "Screw this, I'll do something different another time" and he doesn't.
They better make an end for this and make the conclusion that will leave us utterly flabbergasted. Or else. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAW.

npal

2009-07-10, 08:09

They better make an end for this and make the conclusion that will leave us utterly flabbergasted. Or else. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAW.

Be prepared for BAAAAAAAAAAAAAW :heh:

Myssa Rei

2009-07-10, 08:10

WHAT THE HELL KADOKAWA?!This is ridicculous even for them. Are they trying to anger the entire fanbase or something?

Well, none of us ever claimed to understand what Kadokawa Shoten's Marketing Department was thinking.

They better make an end for this and make the conclusion that will leave us utterly flabbergasted. Or else. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAW.

As mentioned, we're expecting at least two more episodes of this. Don't expect anything just yet, else you'd pop a vein.

Sackett

2009-07-10, 08:14

I wouldn't be surprised if shirts with a "I Survived Endless Eight" message on them were to appear for sale in the future. :p

I for once would love to have one! :meh:

Ah hah! Now we know how they plan on making all that money back.

Don't tell me there are going to be 8 episodes -_-. OH wouldn't we all love the irony! Not only that, but lmfao I don't even think they are trying. Just putting in new artwork, and then replaying the dialogue over and over.

Except they rerecorded all the dialog.

Arrnea

2009-07-10, 08:16

I wonder if all those people who voted 10 actually watched the episode :heh:
I watched it before rating it 7/10. And actually, quite a few of those tens were not there until after the show had aired for some time already.

npal

2009-07-10, 08:21

I watched it before rating it 7/10. And actually, quite a few of those tens were not there until after the show had aired for some time already.

It was an argument inversion, you didn't need to answer it seriously, it was there for rhetorical reasons :p

Also you do realize "airing time" and "episode watching" don't strongly relate, right? Just because an episode was out before the time votes started doesn't mean everyone who voted saw the episode in question.

Jintor

2009-07-10, 08:23

4. The fact that the loop resolution is so terribly simple and mundane will only make the whole arc feel ridiculous. Anyone who expects something grand (provided they don't stray there from the novel, too) can just same himself the pain and go read the related chapter.

This x1000. As much as I'm enjoying watching... the resolution really isn't worth it.

Unless it IS worth it, and I didn't notice it the first time... wouldn't put it past myself...

Ah, I don't know.

Rice_slayer

2009-07-10, 08:24

Lol if you guys want a laugh, read all the over 9000 threads on 4chan about this, it's hilarious. It's an endless recursion of time is becoming something, but not Nice Airplane :'(.

Vexx

2009-07-10, 08:37

wow... 27 pages in between creation and now? (<24hrs)

Problem is the maxim: good advert or bad advert .... its all GOOD advert because people are buzzing and eyeballs are on it. People actually drifting away would be bad from the marketing perspective.

Okay, obviously everyone has their line in the sand. Some people were wtf?ing after 2 eps, some after 3, 4... now my brain is wondering what the merit of this is at this point. Now I know how a teacher feels when watching 30 presentations on the same topic. :)

It is still *academically* interesting to watch the details from episode to episode but "entertaining" its not. Like npal, I think giving it a 1/10 is rather absurd unless you normally rate episode based on the accumulative effort of previous episodes. So... as a stand-alone implementation of the summer fun I give it a 6.

Why a 6? Because the quality of the animation and art for this series has been seriously deteriorating from the start of the new episodes -- they seem to be progressively shorting the budget. I don't believe its an "art style" interpretation but simply a *cheaper* sketchiness. I think I can count less than 3 "standard Kyoani glamour" moments in each iteration of Endless Eight -- usually Haruhi dripping water, a closeup still of Yuki, and sometimes one random (e.g. Itsuki).

MeoTwister5

2009-07-10, 08:47

Oh god a 5th iteration of the same episode next week? I can fully understand the complaints a lot of people are heaving at this season now. The Copehagenists are screaming in their graves.

swtrooper42

2009-07-10, 09:09

Man, I had a weird dream where I wanted a second season of a show really bad and when I finally got it, they just showed the same episode with minor changes over and over again. And then I woke up and found my nightmare was real.

It's an endless recursion of time. An endless recursion of time. An endless recursion of time. An endless recursion of time. An endless recursion of time.

From which there is apparently no escape.

Jintor

2009-07-10, 09:10

It's possible - minutely possible, and this may be warm fuzzy clouds of self delusion, but - it's possible that the anime version of the conclusion will lend it more punch.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-10, 09:17

Oh god a 5th iteration of the same episode next week? I can fully understand the complaints a lot of people are heaving at this season now. The Copehagenists are screaming in their graves.

Take note, we're actually expecting SIX. So you're one episode short. Also, we're also still not sure who among the directorial staff at KyoAni hasn't sat in the director's chair for Animation and Episodes, respectively, for Endless Eight.

npal

2009-07-10, 09:22

It is still *academically* interesting to watch the details from episode to episode but "entertaining" its not. Like npal, I think giving it a 1/10 is rather absurd unless you normally rate episode based on the accumulative effort of previous episodes. So... as a stand-alone implementation of the summer fun I give it a 6.

I'll only argue on the part that when something is so blatantly getting copy-pasted for 4 episodes, it cannot have the benefit of being rated totally isolated. I'll also argue that ALL episodes in every series (should) get rated not only as being able to stand on their own but how they relate to the previous episodes in terms of characters and plot. Otherwise I'd rate every episode of Endless Eight with at least 7, but rating like that would disregard plot and character stagnation as well as obvious repetition. While I do believe 1/10 doesn't feel really right, I can't invalidate very low scores in general.

Justin Kim

2009-07-10, 09:23

It is time to call in the governator. Or John Conner.

CaptGloval

2009-07-10, 09:49

I'm pretty sure this is my first post in this thread, but why do I have the feeling that it isn't? It's like I've seen this thread, with the same topics before, and I had engaged in discussion in it.

Anyway, after 28+ pages, only one noticed about the Vajra? The so far two references to Macross in Endless Eight have led me to conclude that the recursion occured during the summer of 2008.

Why is this recursion of episodes happening? Well, I overheard this guy calling up someone on his differently-designed-but-cool-phone:

"Hello Juiz. I heard there's really going to be a new season of Haruhi later this year. I'd like it to have eight episodes of Endless Eight."

I wonder how much that cost.

npal

2009-07-10, 09:53

Anyway, after 28+ pages, only one noticed about the Vajra? The so far two references to Macross in Endless Eight have led me to conclude that the recursion occured during the summer of 2008.

I did, it sounded familiar but I was too disinterested at that point to care about the reference. Kyon's "BOMBER!" preview comment back in Season 1 was epic win, this... it's in the wrong place at the wrong time...

GMT

2009-07-10, 10:05

I don't know. I actually enjoyed watching this latest iteration through the do-while loop. I admit, when I lurked my way through here yesterday and saw all those '1's', I wanted to throw my laptop at the wall . . . but I went to go find the new episode all the same.

The subtle differences make it enjoyable. Plus the fact that I have to wait a week between episodes gives time for the anticipation and the wonder at what might come next to build (will he, or won't he?)

I probably wouldn't be so fond of this during a marathon session, though.

Bri

2009-07-10, 10:19

I can't help but love these episodes. The repetition doesn't bother me at all. It's not like Gundam seed Destiny where they recycled animation all the time. Kyoani succesfully brought back the unpredictibilty from the first season.

The way the directors play with the moods, the lighting and the music from episode to episode is amazing.

Also I didn't realise earlier how much these episodes resemble Urusei Yastura - Beautiful dreamer. I'm sure the "I love you" suggestion from Koizumi is a direct reference to Ataru Moroboshi's inability to say that to Lum and the way that movies time loop is resolved.

Anything Mamoru Oshii touches tends to draw controversy, not everyone likes the slow, symbolic, amospheric dialogue heavy style he uses. If Endless eight is heavily based on his work on Urusei Yastura then that would explain a few things.

chrono92

2009-07-10, 10:23

eight episode of endless summer holiday i think? the title says 'endless eight' btw.

Malkuth

2009-07-10, 10:24

wow... 27 pages in between creation and now? (<24hrs)

Problem is the maxim: good advert or bad advert .... its all GOOD advert because people are buzzing and eyeballs are on it. People actually drifting away would be bad from the marketing perspective.

That's a fallacy of modern marketing that has backfired countless times!

Okay, obviously everyone has their line in the sand. Some people were wtf?ing after 2 eps, some after 3, 4... now my brain is wondering what the merit of this is at this point. Now I know how a teacher feels when watching 30 presentations on the same topic. :)

I completely agree!

It is still *academically* interesting to watch the details from episode to episode but "entertaining" its not. Like npal, I think giving it a 1/10 is rather absurd unless you normally rate episode based on the accumulative effort of previous episodes. So... as a stand-alone implementation of the summer fun I give it a 6.

That should be taken as granted along with the built-up for further episodes. Episodes in series do not exist in isolation, that is one of the invariants, in contradiction to movies (excluding sequels). And also filling 20 minutes with moe is not entertaining, rather boring and unfortunately the main objective of the studio in question for the past 3-4 years.

Why a 6? Because the quality of the animation and art for this series has been seriously deteriorating from the start of the new episodes -- they seem to be progressively shorting the budget. I don't believe its an "art style" interpretation but simply a *cheaper* sketchiness. I think I can count less than 3 "standard Kyoani glamour" moments in each iteration of Endless Eight -- usually Haruhi dripping water, a closeup still of Yuki, and sometimes one random (e.g. Itsuki).

Finally, someone else pointed it out!

prnoct90

2009-07-10, 10:32

My feelings are still that we will get 8 endless eight episodes, 4 sigh episodes and 1 special episode. which would have us end up with an episode list like this.

Apr 02 ep01 The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya 1
Apr 09 ep02 The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya 2
Apr 16 ep03 The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya 3
Apr 23 ep04 The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya 4
Apr 30 ep05 The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya 5
May 07 ep06 The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya 6
May 14 ep07 The Boredom of Haruhi Suzumiya
May 21 ep08 Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody (NEW)
May 28 ep09 Mysterique Sign
Jun 04 ep10 Remote Island Syndrome Part1
Jun 11 ep11 Remote Island Syndrome Part2
Jun 18 ep12 Endless Eight (NEW)
Jun 25 ep13 Endless Eight (NEW)
Jul 02 ep14 Endless Eight (NEW)
Jul 09 ep15 Endless Eight (NEW)
Jul 16 ep16 Endless Eight (NEW)
Jul 23 ep17 Endless Eight (NEW)
Jul 30 ep18 Endless Eight (NEW)
Aug 07 ep19 Endless Eight (NEW)
Aug 14 ep20 The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya 1 (NEW)
Aug 21 ep21 The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya 2 (NEW)
Aug 28 ep22 The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya 3 (NEW)
Sep 03 ep23 The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya 4 (NEW)
Sep 10 ep24 The Adventures of Asahina Mikuru Episode 00
Sep 17 ep25 Live A Live
Sep 24 ep26 The Day of Sagittarius
Oct 01 ep27 Someday in the rain
Oct 08 ep28 Special Episode (NEW)
So if I'm right, Sign won't start until mid-August. I still think that we are going to get a true second season in the fall/winter though. They might need a break, but October 15th would be a perfect day for a new fall season.

hongee

2009-07-10, 10:35

Just hope they get this endless thing over and done with... I'll take anything else that comes...

Dakota

2009-07-10, 10:37

Happy 100 Painful votes!

npal

2009-07-10, 10:51

Happy 100 Painful votes!

Makes me wonder if it's a forum record there.

Ashlotte

2009-07-10, 11:01

Well if nothing its amply succeeded at creating a polarizing effect thats for certain... :heh:

I had to vote 10 this time just because I really couldn't stop laughing after they went and repeated this yet again...3 times was obnoxious admittedly, but to take it to this level...Yea I just can't help but to laugh. :p

Sammich

2009-07-10, 11:26

I'm slightly annoyed at myself that I'm actually enjoying this... It's quirky and I just have a 'thing' for that. It's clear they're not doing it for the art of it or any other reason one could consider noble but I can't help it, I like these episodes... :uhoh:

Bri

2009-07-10, 11:27

Why a 6? Because the quality of the animation and art for this series has been seriously deteriorating from the start of the new episodes -- they seem to be progressively shorting the budget. I don't believe its an "art style" interpretation but simply a *cheaper* sketchiness. I think I can count less than 3 "standard Kyoani glamour" moments in each iteration of Endless Eight -- usually Haruhi dripping water, a closeup still of Yuki, and sometimes one random (e.g. Itsuki).

I think this effect is largely exaggerated by the poor visual quality of the subs. The Mazui seem to use particulary bad source material. If you compare the animation quality of Haruhi S2 from a a good source (like the Yuki or AFK versions) and compare it to the TV broadcast versions of Clannad AS or Haruhi S1 then you wont see a drop in quality. I've checked episodes scene by scene and it's not better or worse. They do have reduced the intensity of daytime digital lighting effects but any scene that is out of direct sunlight uses the classic lush Kyoani effects.

The art does vary a little. Especially the swimming pool scenes in two episodes have been rather poor in terms of anatomy. No idea why, maybe some new key animators are still in training, not sure.

General_Asakura

2009-07-10, 11:31

I think this effect is largely exaggerated by the poor visual quality of the subs. The Mazui seem to use particulary bad source material. If you compare the animation quality of Haruhi S2 from a a good source (like the Yuki or AFK versions) and compare it to the TV broadcast versions of Clannad AS or Haruhi S1 then you wont see a drop in quality. I've checked episodes scene by scene and it's not better or worse. They do have reduced the intensity of daytime digital lighting effects but any scene that is out of direct sunlight uses the classic lush Kyoani effects.

The art does vary a little. Especially the swimming pool scenes in two episodes have been rather poor in terms of anatomy. No idea why, maybe some new key animators are still in training, not sure.

i believe they are testing new styles every ep, ive seen small changes in here and there in the arts. the lastest one being the one that i noticed most easily.

Traece

2009-07-10, 11:34

I think this effect is largely exaggerated by the poor visual quality of the subs. The Mazui seem to use particulary bad source material. If you compare the animation quality of Haruhi S2 from a a good source (like the Yuki or AFK versions) and compare it to the TV broadcast versions of Clannad AS or Haruhi S1 then you wont see a drop in quality. I've checked episodes scene by scene and it's not better or worse. They do have reduced the intensity of daytime digital lighting effects but any scene that is out of direct sunlight uses the classic lush Kyoani effects.

I actually noticed this as well. This was my first time watching a Mazui sub and it'll probably be my last if I have a choice. :heh: Not to be really mean or anything. It seemed like this fifth episode was a lot lower quality than the other ones and it was the first thing I noticed, but this certainly explains the reason.

... Even so, Haruhi still got cuter. :D

Edit: At what General Asakura said: I've noticed that a bit as well. The most recent animations style was K-On. If you didn't get a K-On vibe watching this you desperately should check the scene where they show the three girls in their new Yukatas for the first time. If she isn't in the wrong series I don't know who is. :heh:

prnoct90

2009-07-10, 11:43

Ikonomi

2009-07-10, 11:49

I still think they aren't using as high of a budget on these episodes as they usually do (still shots, not all characters moving, etc.), because they are actually going to air more then just 14 new episodes. So, they are saving there budget for the other episodes.

Wouldn't that be nice? The optimist inside me thinks this will happen. Maybe they'll air some new material after they finish the chronologically-correct cycle of the first season. Perhaps this is a season 1.5 -- just a season 1 with the holes filled in, and there's a season 2 proper to come. But... either way, that's pure, uninformed speculation and we won't see the outcome for a while.

The pessimist, well, you don't want to talk to him.

prnoct90

2009-07-10, 12:02

Wouldn't that be nice? The optimist inside me thinks this will happen. Maybe they'll air some new material after they finish the chronologically-correct cycle of the first season. Perhaps this is a season 1.5 -- just a season 1 with the holes filled in, and there's a season 2 proper to come. But... either way, that's pure, uninformed speculation and we won't see the outcome for a while.

The pessimist, well, you don't want to talk to him.

Exactly, I just feel it would be strange, after releasing the production images, and talking about it on the site, to not actually animate the disappearance of haruhi suzumiya. And, I don't think they can really fit it within the episodes left.

Archon_Wing

2009-07-10, 12:26

wow... 27 pages in between creation and now? (<24hrs)
It is still *academically* interesting to watch the details from episode to episode but "entertaining" its not. Like npal, I think giving it a 1/10 is rather absurd unless you normally rate episode based on the accumulative effort of previous episodes. So... as a stand-alone implementation of the summer fun I give it a 6.

Problem is that I don't find it entertaining, and so I feel as entertainment it fails. I simply cannot rate it as a standalone episode, since I already gave the original two episodes credit. I simply did not want to watch the same thing as four episodes. To take this to the extreme, what if every episode was like this? (And hey, 4/5 so far have been) Even a bad show will bring something new to the table, and not just minor details, no matter how horribly it may be executed. So, thus I can describe this as "painful" because I can't think of anything good to say about it. Hell, you could have had the episode consist solely of bouncing breasts, and I'd still rate it a 2. >.< Also, I wouldn't rate the entire series as bad, so I am rating this particular experience alone too.

On the other hand, I think most people simply don't distinguish between 1-4. It may just be treated as "Did you like it?" And ultimately, it doesn't matter what level of bad something is because they won't be coming back to it. But I wouldn't be lying if it's a little due to spite. Or maybe it got rounded down.

I wouldn't argue in absolute terms that this episode is the worst shit ever, devoid of any quality because that's not true. There's plenty of worse crap out there (which I don't even bother rating so you could argue the act of rating already means something if you want). Problem is that I can't be bothered to locate the quality. Unfortunately, I probably would still rewatch them over this anyways.

Summary: I don't like it. :heh:

dragon4dudes

2009-07-10, 12:34

I have no idea if this came up but did anyone notice the constant allusion to the airplane?

And I'm really only watch EE for three reasons, 1. I want to see how they animate the ending; 2. How many additional iterations are added until the conclusion of EE; 3. How many different ways the same thing can be portrayed.

Kirarakim

2009-07-10, 12:40

Archon_Wing

2009-07-10, 12:51

I think the real reason they are repeating all these episodes (besides to troll) is they want to sell all the variations of Haruhi, Yuki, & Mikuru in swimsuits and yukata. They also will sell many variations of Yuki with the different masks. :p

Haruhi will become the new Evangelion! :) In about 10 years they will remake the series, which is really just the same thing with amazing new special effects, animation, and some random minor changes that only fans will notice for more money! And despite what anyone says now we will all watch it. Gah. ;)

Ithekro

2009-07-10, 12:58

"I Survived Endless Eight"

Add to the back of the shirt an infinity sign and the words "But then it started again...."

SaraFilipa

2009-07-10, 13:06

Wow, I don't think I've ever witnessed such bad ratings for an anime episode here. :heh: Especially NOT Haruhi.

mokuseimaru

2009-07-10, 13:08

Exactly, I just feel it would be strange, after releasing the production images, and talking about it on the site, to not actually animate the disappearance of haruhi suzumiya. And, I don't think they can really fit it within the episodes left.

In the end, it might not matter if the show gets canceled. Supposing they did try seven or eight of these, I think this would be a serious probability. Consider that in Japan, there is no such thing as a rerun, at least during peak viewing hours, nor is there supposed to be a break between seasons. Either the entire series is intended to last maybe 23-24 episodes (like Berserk or Gantz) and has a filler ending while the source material moves on, or it has longish filler arcs (like Naruto and Bleach) to let the source material get a comfortable distance from the anime.

If a series is to have a long run, adapting as much of the source material as possible, the second alternative is your safest option. The thought is that if you give up your time slot for a season break, the show that replaces you may get higher ratings and the break becomes permanent. But sometimes, if the filler is too poorly received, people will stop watching altogether and the show will be canceled anyway---for example, Rurouni Kenshin and Ranma 1/2.

I'm not overly sure, but from what I gather from reports about 2ch, the Japanese reaction is not so good itself and the viewers feel frustrated and betrayed just like most of us do. Although this isn't traditional filler, the repetition makes it more like a concentrated form of the annoyance and irritation engendered by filler on another show---that is to say, the irritation created in the viewer by each week of another Endless Eight is equivalent to the irritation of, say, two months of normal filler on another show. My feeling is, if this goes beyond, say, six episodes, even those on either side of the Pacific who think this was a gutsy move will probably give up, not on the series altogether, but on the idea of tuning in "this week". Basically, if people in general stop watching Haruhi until they hear word that Endless Eight is over, then by usual Japanese T.V. standards, it may justify putting another show on.

OverMaster

2009-07-10, 13:27

Exactly, I just feel it would be strange, after releasing the production images, and talking about it on the site, to not actually animate the disappearance of haruhi suzumiya.

At this point, such a dirty stunt wouldn't surprise me. The rumor saying they just 'didn't feel like' animating Disappearance are getting more and more credible at each new episode.

Haruhi will become the new Evangelion! In about 10 years they will remake the series, which is really just the same thing with amazing new special effects, animation, and some random minor changes that only fans will notice for more money! And despite what anyone says now we will all watch it. Gah.

Dude, although the smilies lead me to think you are just kidding, Eva 2.0 has more than made up for the lack of changes in 1.0 already. Haruhi, on the other hand...

The only good thing to come from this Endless debacle are all the parodies and mockings it will get from other series. I see a whole episode reference in a fourth Sayonara Zetsubou season in the future.

C.A.

2009-07-10, 13:33

Wow, I don't think I've ever witnessed such bad ratings for an anime episode here. :heh: Especially NOT Haruhi.The polls go crazy for many reasons here in the Haruhi subforum.

3 years ago while Haruhi S1 was still airing, there was a mid season Favourite Character poll #1.

That week, it was an episode where Haruhi gets extremely tsuntsun with Kyon and in the ED credits, Haruhi isolates herself and Kyon from everyone else.

Something amazing happened in the Favourite Characters poll, Haruhi and Kyon mysteriously gained 1 million votes and isolated themselves from the rest of the poll. We discussed that in the thread from page 4 onwards (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=551591#post551591), reading those posts bring back my memories of the days when we actually had fun posting here and everyone is friendly on AS.

Archon_Wing

2009-07-10, 13:37

Dude, although the smilies lead me to think you are just kidding, Eva 2.0 has more than made up for the lack of changes in 1.0 already. Haruhi, on the other hand...

Yea I know, there's a world of difference here.

Archaic

2009-07-10, 13:45

Consider that in Japan, there is no such thing as a rerun, at least during peak viewing hours, nor is there supposed to be a break between seasons.
Incorrect. As a general rule of thumb perhaps, but it's not an absolute. To list off a few examples, for all of us watching a certain Haruhi stream, we're seeing reruns of Hakushaku to Yousei right before Haruhi every week. At more mainstream peak hours (as opposed to the usual peak for otaku aimed anime past midnight), Card Captor Sakura was rebroadcast in its entirety as recently as 2004, and MAJOR frequently replays the just completed season from start to finish immediately after its initial broadcast.

FatalMemory

2009-07-10, 13:49

Mazui use the first passable source material.
Fix'd.
Even Daiz said that most of the early Haruhi broadcasts are pretty terrible.
Just incase you thought it was Mazui's fault or something.

I mean, I'd prefer crappy quality now than slightly better quality several hours later.

art_1ficial

2009-07-10, 13:53

just hope kyoani wont really made 8 episode of Endless Eight,

also I cant shake this feeling that there is must be something behind all of this,

there must be something that made them do this.

but still, if the next ep there no conclusion on the endless eight that's it, I'm gonna call Juiz...

Reckoner

2009-07-10, 13:57

Something amazing happened in the Favourite Characters poll, Haruhi and Kyon mysteriously gained 1 million votes and isolated themselves from the rest of the poll. We discussed that in the thread from page 4 onwards (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=551591#post551591), reading those posts bring back my memories of the days when we actually had fun posting here and everyone is friendly on AS.

People wouldn't be here discussing this if it was at no interest to them. And sorry that we ruined your fairytale forum with unicorns. Positive or negative discussion is all part of what a forum should be about... Not never ending appraisal or bashing...

mokuseimaru

2009-07-10, 14:04

Incorrect. As a general rule of thumb perhaps, but it's not an absolute. To list off a few examples, for all of us watching a certain Haruhi stream, we're seeing reruns of Hakushaku to Yousei right before Haruhi every week. At more mainstream peak hours (as opposed to the usual peak for otaku aimed anime past midnight), Card Captor Sakura was rebroadcast in its entirety as recently as 2004, and MAJOR frequently replays the just completed season from start to finish immediately after its initial broadcast.

I suppose I did mean that as a general rule of thumb. I meant this more along the lines of, whereas for series in the U.S., one expects them to run new episodes beginning in September or October through May sweeps, interspersing reruns from the current and previous seasons. Networks will air adds like "a new Law and Order" or "a new C.S.I." for a certain day---there is an expectation that there will be quite a bit of reruns from every show. At least, this was the way it was when I was younger---I don't even have cable anymore because there's nothing I want to watch that I cant watch somewhere online.

C.A.

2009-07-10, 14:08

People wouldn't be here discussing this if it was at no interest to them. And sorry that we ruined your fairytale forum with unicorns. Positive or negative discussion is all part of what a forum should be about... Not never ending appraisal or bashing...The internets' become what it is now because of this new generation of youngsters like yourself.

I wonder why the internets was a better place in the past, weaker moral education? Less discipline, lack of manners? Or alot more teenagers in puberty having access to the internet nowadays?

People use to criticise with more tact and people can actually discuss on that. Its not all praises and agreements, but actual discussions and not 'its my opinion, I don't care what you say'.

xris

2009-07-10, 14:13

The polls go crazy for many reasons here in the Haruhi subforum.

3 years ago while Haruhi S1 was still airing, there was a mid season Favourite Character poll #1.

That week, it was an episode where Haruhi gets extremely tsuntsun with Kyon and in the ED credits, Haruhi isolates herself and Kyon from everyone else.

Something amazing happened in the Favourite Characters poll, Haruhi and Kyon mysteriously gained 1 million votes and isolated themselves from the rest of the poll. We discussed that in the thread from page 4 onwards (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=551591#post551591), reading those posts bring back my memories of the days when we actually had fun posting here and everyone is friendly on AS.
<off topic>
Reading that thread brings back memories (of tin-foil hats and unexplained poll results) :) Catgirls and I had a lot of fun while that poll was open. Never trust a Mod wearing a tin-foil hat (or at least an avatar wearing a tin-foil hat).
</off topic>

Ikonomi

2009-07-10, 14:17

The internets' become what it is now because of this new generation of youngsters like yourself.

I wonder why the internets was a better place in the past, weaker moral education? Less discipline, lack of manners? Or alot more teenagers in puberty having access to the internet nowadays?

People use to criticise with more tact and people can actually discuss on that. Its not all praises and agreements, but actual discussions and not 'its my opinion, I don't care what you say'.

Most of the negativity going on in the Haruhi forum lately directly stems from the episodes we've been seeing, as we all know. Some people can't deal with them in a rational manner. Emotions are running high. But that means that when conditions change, things will get friendlier again. Fortuna, capricious waif, has merely spun our wheel downward, if you will. Our cycle will improve.

I don't necessarily think the internets have been ruined. Things will always be different compared to "back then". That goes for everything in life.

AS has always been one of the best forums out there, and I think it still is. Almost everyone here is nice, rational, well-spoken. There has always been a sense of community. I feel like most people are genuinely interested in polite and illuminating discussion.

But I'm getting really off-track here. I just want everybody to be happy! Imagine you're Haruhi living out your endless summer with bug catching, fireworks, festivals, a very nice plane, and no homework. Okay, maybe that's the wrong imagery.

jonli

2009-07-10, 14:34

Daniel E.

2009-07-10, 14:36

And there are quite a few of us who are only going to vote when Endless Eight actually finishes.

*raises hand. :)

Eventhough I voted in the first polls, I decided to stop doing it since last week to try and judge the whole of endless as a single package when it ends.

Add to the back of the shirt an infinity sign and the words "But then it started again...."

Now I want that shirt even more! :D

Archon_Wing

2009-07-10, 14:39

The internetz has long been a breeding ground for hate, trolls and general jackassery because people can get away with a lot more since they are behind a screen. Everyone else is just faceless.

But it's also a place where people can share their thoughts, feelings, and experiences. Sometimes the greatest collection of human knowledge can be used for great things, sometimes for bad things, and well let's not even talk about the porn. :heh:

And this forum is very polite relative to the rest of the internet. A typical internet discussion about something like this would have a ton of racist and homophobic slurs, and insults about each other's moms, some general unfounded comments about anime fans' lives and generally horrible use of the English language. And all on the first page. And Haruhi help you if you read youtube comments.

aorta

2009-07-10, 15:05

Some company should do an Endless Eight tour this year Aug 17 - 31

For x amount of money you'll get:

cafe dinners
bug catching
o-bon festival
fireworks
stargazing
movie
bowling
fishing
bike ride
pool visit
goldfish catching
yukata
plane t-shirt
batting practice
mask

TheWeedDigger

2009-07-10, 15:15

Hello! Long time lurker, first time poster, here. I finally gathered up to courage to register, so I can participate in some friendly discussion. :)

I would like to start out by saying that I'm rather fascinated by general response to this episode of Haruhi. It seems a lot of people are raging at the fact that Endless Eight hasn't ended, but I'm not quite sure I understand WHY. After all, this episode was probably the first this season to really make me go "...whoa." Honestly, I was amazed at the direction this one took, as I hope to better explain better in future posts. I can't be the only one who understands the reasoning behind this story arc?

It seems it has become "cool" to bash KyoAni without rhyme or reason. I honestly suspect that many people complaining have not even SEEN this episode. Instead, they hear one phrase, "They did the same things as before," and assume that the animators are epic level trolls. However, I felt that despite the "same things" happening, the execution is very, VERY different, especially when it comes to Kyon.

I should probably stop there, for now, as I wouldn't want my first post to be a wall of text. :heh:

Malkuth

2009-07-10, 15:19

Haruhi will become the new Evangelion! :) In about 10 years they will remake the series, which is really just the same thing with amazing new special effects, animation, and some random minor changes that only fans will notice for more money! And despite what anyone says now we will all watch it. Gah. ;)

Well, technically, End of Eva was expanding upon a fairly conclusive ending from the original TV show. The Rebuild also adds a lot of material and probably will diverge significantly.

The E8 not only does not add anything new or of any significance to it's previous iteration, but also puts aside the possibility for truly new material airing. Also do not forget that nothing in the Haruhi franchise has concluded, even the damn novel is in development hell :frustrated:

(...)

It seems it has become "cool" to bash KyoAni without rhyme or reason.

By the way, if you're into more arguments/whining (comparisons and artwork) check The Degeneration of Haruhi Suzumiya (http://between-betwixt.blogspot.com/2009/07/degeneration-of-haruhi-suzumiya.html), I have intention to bother more with Haruhi until this horror ends :heh:

I honestly suspect that many people complaining have not even SEEN this episode. Instead, they hear one phrase, "They did the same things as before," and assume that the animators are epic level trolls. However, I felt that despite the "same things" happening, the execution is very, VERY different, especially when it comes to Kyon.

(...)

This I addressed some pages ago. In any case, they are many as those who put straight 10s and in any case I am not one of them.

npal

2009-07-10, 15:25

I would like to start out by saying that I'm rather fascinated by general response to this episode of Haruhi. It seems a lot of people are raging at the fact that Endless Eight hasn't ended, but I'm not quite sure I understand WHY. After all, this episode was probably the first this season to really make me go "...whoa." Honestly, I was amazed at the direction this one took, as I hope to better explain better in future posts. I can't be the only one who understands the reasoning behind this story arc?

It seems it has become "cool" to bash KyoAni without rhyme or reason. I honestly suspect that many people complaining have not even SEEN this episode. Instead, they hear one phrase, "They did the same things as before," and assume that the animators are epic level trolls. However, I felt that despite the "same things" happening, the execution is very, VERY different, especially when it comes to Kyon.

I should probably stop there, for now, as I wouldn't want my first post to be a wall of text. :heh:

The whole thing can be inverted as follows.

"I would like to start out by saying that I'm rather fascinated by general response to this episode of Haruhi. It seems a number of people are positively delighted at the fact that Endless Eight hasn't ended, but I'm not quite sure I understand WHY. After all, this episode was probably one of the same, making me go "...meh" Honestly, I was annoyed at the direction this one took, as I hope to better explain better in future posts. I can't be the only one who understands there is little reasoning here?

It seems it was "cool" to praise KyoAni without rhyme or reason. I honestly suspect that many people singing praises have not even SEEN this episode. Instead, they hear one phrase, "They did the same things as before," and assume that the animators delivered as always because it's Haruhi, and because they feel most other people are epic level brainless trolls. I felt that despite the execution being very, VERY different, the "same things" did happen again and again, especially when the overall plot is concerned."

I hope you realized what just happened. No offense intended, just wanted to make a point.

Archon_Wing

2009-07-10, 15:27

Well, technically, End of Eva was expanding upon a fairly conclusive ending from the original TV show. The Rebuild also adds a lot of material and probably will diverge significantly.

The E8 not only does not add anything new or of any significance to it's previous iteration, but also puts aside the possibility for truly new material airing. Also do not forget that nothing in the Haruhi franchise has concluded, even the damn novel is in development hell :frustrated:

By the way, if you're into more whining (comparisons and artwork) check The Degeneration of Haruhi Suzumiya (http://between-betwixt.blogspot.com/2009/07/degeneration-of-haruhi-suzumiya.html), I have intention to bother more with Haruhi until this horror ends :heh:

Yes, you can have a similar framework but a much different presentation. Clearly one has worked and one hasn't. Though I was really imagining an entirely new Haruhi remake in the far future. :D

I'm just comparing Haruhi and Eva since they seemed to have created very large impacts on anime (lousy pun intended) and thus the potential for massive merchandise. My other point is that many people including myself will probably want to see more of either, no matter what it is, in the future. I apologize if you thought I was comparing Rebuild to this episode ; I'd never do that. :)

Reckoner

2009-07-10, 15:27

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-10, 15:28

*snip*

Despite the importance of criticism, positive comments and responses are generally better to hear than negative ones. Negativity is toxic and bad for the psyche.

And your comment that people are singing KyoAni's praises is really invalid this week. Just look at the poll.

Also, you don't like this show, so you're biased anyway.

npal

2009-07-10, 15:34

Despite the importance of criticism, positive comments and responses are generally better to hear than negative ones. Negativity is toxic and bad for the psyche.

And your comment that people are singing KyoAni's praises is really invalid this week. Just look at the poll.

Also, you don't like this show, so you're biased anyway.

"Despite the importance of enjoying something and sharing the joy, negative comments and responses are generally better to hear than positive ones, on the basis that they can be constructive and yield discussion with the desired outcome of communicating differences in viewpoints. Positivity is worthless and unnecessary cause it communicates nothing but adoration and hardly gives a ground for discussion other than preaching to the choir.

And my comment is actually pretty valid when you combine this poll's and the last poll's above average.

Also, if you read my first episode review, I'm very skeptical about Kyoani in general but I thought that there was nice potential in this season based on the first episode alone. I would hardly call that excessive and/or negative bias."

You really want me to do this all day? >_>

Sute443

2009-07-10, 15:36

It seems it has become "cool" to bash KyoAni without rhyme or reason. I honestly suspect that many people complaining have not even SEEN this episode. Instead, they hear one phrase, "They did the same things as before," and assume that the animators are epic level trolls. However, I felt that despite the "same things" happening, the execution is very, VERY different, especially when it comes to Kyon.

First of all, welcome. Always nice to add another to our ranks.

Secondly, I agree that people who haven't watched the episode shouldn't bash KyoAni. If someone wants to go after KyoAni, their arguments should be based on the presentation of the episode, which is what KyoAni controls. KyoAni is not responsible for the repetition of Endless Eight, Kadokawa is. Kadokawa should be receiving the hate.

Thirdly, a large part of the reason so many people are upset is that the iterations of Endless Eight are using up time that could be used on other stories. Those of us who have read the novels know that there are some very good stories yet to be animated and have been waiting a very long time to see them. Each episode of Endless Eight (which have all technically been filler, so far) is one less story that we'll get to see animated this time. At this point there is a real chance that Disappearance won't be shown this time around. We don't like that.

TheWeedDigger

2009-07-10, 15:37

The whole thing can be inverted as follows.

"I would like to start out by saying that I'm rather fascinated by general response to this episode of Haruhi. It seems a number of people are positively delighted at the fact that Endless Eight hasn't ended, but I'm not quite sure I understand WHY. After all, this episode was probably one of the same, making me go "...meh" Honestly, I was annoyed at the direction this one took, as I hope to better explain better in future posts. I can't be the only one who understands there is little reasoning here?

It seems it was "cool" to praise KyoAni without rhyme or reason. I honestly suspect that many people singing praises have not even SEEN this episode. Instead, they hear one phrase, "They did the same things as before," and assume that the animators delivered as always because it's Haruhi, and because they feel most other people are epic level brainless trolls. I felt that despite the execution being very, VERY different, the "same things" did happen again and again, especially when the overall plot is concerned."

I hope you realized what just happened. No offense intended, just wanted to make a point.

Yes, you make a good point. What I said is entirely subjective, and I'm sorry I didn't state my full reasoning and content as to why I think this episode is any better than others. Still, I wanted to get that off my chest first, before delving into deep analysis of the episode. Like I said, it would be a wall of text. :heh:

I'm still not sure how to approach it though. I now see I have to be careful, otherwise very negative people will pounce on any little mistake I make. :(

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-10, 15:38

You really want me to do this all day? >_>

What the hell, man? You sure know good ways to really piss people off.

So your logic is that, in the cesspool of hate that is the internet, it's GOOD to hear EVEN MORE negative things? Yeah, sure.

This episode was good, artistically. Sure, I'm really biased towards random symbolism, but even if they spend another 4 episodes on this, and they're more like this one and E8 II, I'd be fine with it.

I now see I have to be careful, otherwise very negative people will pounce on any little mistake I make.

No, ignore those people. Your opinions are your own, and you have a right to them.

Bri

2009-07-10, 15:40

Fix'd.
Even Daiz said that most of the early Haruhi broadcasts are pretty terrible.
Just incase you thought it was Mazui's fault or something.

I mean, I'd prefer crappy quality now than slightly better quality several hours later.

I am aware of the problems of the early broadcasts and that the other sub groups wait till the high quality Tokyo broadcasts come available.

However in this thread there is a side effect now where the perception of the quality of the series now gets influenced by the first viewed subs. Mazui's source broadcasts are not helping the acceptance of this season. It's quite likely that some have not watched other subs.

Mazui is not to blame for this off course, fansub groups deserve support, but it is important to realise that this group is heavily sacrificing visual quality for speed and some fans may want to wait depeing on what they prefer.

npal

2009-07-10, 15:45

Yes, you make a good point. What I said is entirely subjective, and I'm sorry I didn't state my full reasoning and content as to why I think this episode is any better than others. Still, I wanted to get that off my chest first, before delving into deep analysis of the episode. Like I said, it would be a wall of text. :heh:

I'm still not sure how to approach it though. I now see I have to be careful, otherwise very negative people will pounce on any little mistake I make. :(

Nah, the essence of the post was ok as it is, I just keep hearing the "people haven't watched this that's why they rate it 1" or "people are stupid, they can't comprehend, that's why they rate it low" for some strange reason.

As far as the anime direction and stuff go, obviously people will have preferences, eg the best episode in the loop for me, not counting episode 2, was episode 3, but yeah, people would differ there. I suppose I feel better with that particular director.

Also, most of us aren't of the tl;dr type, so feel free to compose your thought as well as you want. :D Although the usual Haruhi trolls apparently keep negrepping around when they don't like something... again... Oh well...

What the hell, man? You sure know good ways to really piss people off.

So your logic is that, in the cesspool of hate that is the internet, it's GOOD to hear EVEN MORE negative things? Yeah, sure.

The cesspool of hate isn't created on its own. You do know that fanboy overpositivity accounts for a good percentage of retaliatory remarks, which in turn causes fanboys to retaliate back in kind, and the circle goes on. Either side could take some time off but the thing is, if we both like something, the discussion ends here. If you don't like something, there's a point in talking together, so yeah, it's good to disagree and be able to communicate this disagreement effectively without getting pissed off at the other party. True, I find that hard to do many times myself and I'd rather talk with someone a bit more passionate than a fake supporter of neutrality, even if there's a possibility things might heat up eventually, but that's not the real issue. As long as there's disagreement, there can be progress in understanding.

Reckoner

2009-07-10, 15:47

I am aware of the problems of the early broadcasts and that the other sub groups wait till the high quality Tokyo broadcasts come available.

However in this thread there is a side effect now where the perception of the quality of the series now gets influenced by the first viewed subs. Mazui's source broadcasts are not helping the acceptance of this season. It's quite likely that some have not watched other subs.

Mazui is not to blame for this off course, fansub groups deserve support, but it is important to realise that this group is heavily sacrificing visual quality for speed and some fans may want to wait depeing on what they prefer.

Well there are people like me who utterly despise the K-ON! style of animation that seems to be infesting this show in now a couple of episodes. It just makes the characters look bad, espcially Kyon.

Archon_Wing

2009-07-10, 15:54

I'm still not sure how to approach it though. I now see I have to be careful, otherwise very negative people will pounce on any little mistake I make. :(

In my experience, negative people pounce on others regardless, because they can never be pleased. You could be saying "I like donuts" and someone will still rage. So you shouldn't even concern yourself with that.

TheWeedDigger

2009-07-10, 16:02

Thanks, everyone, for the welcome. I've seen that these boards are friendly, it's just kind of hard coming into a community as a newbie, y'know? :heh:

Anyways, I think I see plenty of people complaining that KyoAni are drawing this in too much of a 'K-On' style, so I suppose they have a legitimate complaint there, but that doesn't stop the animation on this episode from being extremely well done.

Also, I understand that many people want to see Disappearance animated. Even I wait in anticipation to see that arc animated! :D However, I realize that even if, by some insane reason, the arc doesn't make it into this season, it will be in the next season. And ultimately, that means more Haruhi episodes anyway, so what more could I ask for?

By the way, Kaisos, my entire post I'm going to make will be based on the so-called 'random' symbolism, so don't get frustrated and please stick around! :cool:

I'll need to use spoiler tags when I DO post, I think...

Slick_rick

2009-07-10, 16:05

I fairly enjoyed this episode. I wasn't honestly expecting them to do another one but I'm not at all upset. We will see how it plays out as how they end this will either make this epic or a complete failure. Either way this has peaked my interest which honestly disappearance didn't really.

I like when shows do stuff out of the box and this certainly is. I, too, wonder how many voted without actually watching the episode. I suspect quite a few. Half through the episode I couldn't help grinning because I knew what kind of reactions I'd be seeing of the forums because of it.

The Bloodlust Kid

2009-07-10, 16:06

It seems it has become "cool" to bash KyoAni without rhyme or reason. I honestly suspect that many people complaining have not even SEEN this episode. Instead, they hear one phrase, "They did the same things as before," and assume that the animators are epic level trolls. However, I felt that despite the "same things" happening, the execution is very, VERY different, especially when it comes to Kyon.

I should probably stop there, for now, as I wouldn't want my first post to be a wall of text. :heh:

Why does everybody keep using the "It's cool to bash x company!" argument to defend something? Most of the criticism is aimed at the fact that KyoAni is just recycling the animation. You think by now everybody would get the point that time is being repeated but they decided to show the same episode again.
Other shows and films manage to drive the point home without making any additional episodes (then again, half the time it involves someone dying).But I for one, watched it before voting hoping that they will finally move on because it's just not unique anymore.

Let's just do a Kafuka and pretend we're watching the same episode until a new one comes out.

Archon_Wing

2009-07-10, 16:08

Anyways, I think I see plenty of people complaining that KyoAni are drawing this in too much of a 'K-On' style, so I suppose they have a legitimate complaint there, but that doesn't stop the animation on this episode from being extremely well done.

I never saw K-on save for a few images here and there. But what's wrong with that art style?

Kirarakim

2009-07-10, 16:08

TheWeedDigger

2009-07-10, 16:14

Why does everybody keep using the "It's cool to bash x company!" argument to defend something? Most of the criticism is aimed at the fact that KyoAni is just recycling the animation. You think by now everybody would get the point that time is being repeated but they decided to show the same episode again.
Other shows and films manage to drive the point home without making any additional episodes (then again, half the time it involves someone dying).But I for one, watched it before voting hoping that they will finally move on because it's just not unique anymore.

Let's just do a Kafuka and pretend we're watching the same episode until a new one comes out.

Honestly, I don't remember any animation being recycled. Each time, the characters moved differently, and there were many different angles. Hell, I think even the backgrounds changed, like at the O-Bon. The only argument that might make sense is the recycling of dialogue, but even then, each iteration had the voice actors doing the same dialogue in different manners.

I guess I'm still just confused. Wasn't what makes Haruhi so great is that the story, in both novel and anime forms, is so far off the norm of just sitting down and watching a typical series with predictable plot development? :confused::confused::confused:

The Bloodlust Kid

2009-07-10, 16:15

I understand being annoyed by the endless episodes of Endless Eight but they aren't just recycling animation since they have been reanimating every scene in each episode, although there has been quite a bit of still shots.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant though.

Well of course that's just being technical.

Honestly, I don't remember any animation being recycled. Each time, the characters moved differently, and there were many different angles. Hell, I think even the backgrounds changed, like at the O-Bon. The only argument that might make sense is the recycling of dialogue, but even then, each iteration had the voice actors doing the same dialogue in different manners.

I guess I'm still just confused. Wasn't what makes Haruhi so great is that the story, in both novel and anime forms, is so far off the norm of just sitting down and watching a typical series with predictable plot development? Not when it uses a useless gimmick like showing the same episode with slight variations. Imagine a novel series where each volume is they same thing but with a few sentences changed. That's what it's like right now. This adds no benefit to dialogue or plot whatsoever. As I said already, there are better ways to portray a time loop and this isn't it.

Reckoner

2009-07-10, 16:15

I never saw K-on save for a few images here and there. But what's wrong with that art style?

Overly cute. I don't like that for this anime. I prefer a more mature look to characters like Kyon.

By the way, if anybody is wondering, I utterly adored the first season of this show. So I'm not a hater. I really feel that they are blowing it here.

TheWeedDigger

2009-07-10, 16:17

I never saw K-on save for a few images here and there. But what's wrong with that art style?

Oh, I didn't mean to be misunderstood. K-on's art style is fine, even though I have yet to watch it. I just thought that people might have an argument that "Haruhi doesn't look like Haruhi."

Malkuth

2009-07-10, 16:17

Here is my first problem with KyoAni:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oDlgy-ul32s/SleZv6FHKOI/AAAAAAAAHOc/pDyJX1AXKrA/s200/Original+(4).jpg => http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_oDlgy-ul32s/SleYORBTMPI/AAAAAAAAHNc/AZj4H5GfCeI/s200/Rerun+(6).jpg <= http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_oDlgy-ul32s/SleYDMahRhI/AAAAAAAAHNM/_wYkxtYffuI/s200/TheCulprit+(2).jpg

No facial shading, eyes are hardly detailed anymore, limbs get shortened and body movement resembles an amorphous single-cell organism.

Second problem is that the studio considers good professional writers redundant :heh:

For everything else (http://between-betwixt.blogspot.com/2009/07/degeneration-of-haruhi-suzumiya.html), Kadokawa is mainly to blame and have to do with the entirety of the franchise, not only this episode.

Ikonomi

2009-07-10, 16:32

I personally think the K-onification of Haruhi is endemic to the most recent two Endless Eight episodes. Looking at Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody and Endless Eight I and II, the differences from the first season are not nearly as pronounced. It seems like the art style is a deliberate decision as they rotate through directors and animators, or whatever they're doing, and will revert to something more familiar when Endless Eight is completed.

Comparing Endless Eight IV to Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya I is a case of extremes. The art for this season is, overall, slightly different, but that's a logical expectation given the three years between seasons. There was little chance the animation would be exactly the same, but quite honestly it's very close to the original, with the exception of Endless Eight III and IV.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-10, 16:38

No facial shading, eyes are hardly detailed anymore, limbs get shortened and body movement resembles an amorphous single-cell organism.

They lost a large chunk of their animators early on in Lucky Star's run.

Not everyone there can do the original Haruhi style anymore, though E8 II had it.

ultramojones

2009-07-10, 16:41

Anyone here going to buy the DVDs? I know I can't wait to spend my dollars watching multiple variations of the same thing, in HIGH DEF

Malkuth

2009-07-10, 16:42

They lost a large chunk of their animators early on in Lucky Star's run.

Not everyone there can do the original Haruhi style anymore, though E8 II had it.

I know, I also mentioned it in my blog post, where I went into depth on how Kadokawa and KyoAni strive to destroy their Nr.1 product :upset:

Anyone here going to buy the DVDs? I know I can't wait to spend my dollars watching multiple variations of the same thing, in HIGH DEF

I was wandering exactly the same (many pages ago); especially, I am curious about all those who give high scores!

Bri

2009-07-10, 16:57

They lost a large chunk of their animators early on in Lucky Star's run.

Not everyone there can do the original Haruhi style anymore, though E8 II had it.

At least half the key-animators that worked on K-on! have worked on Kanon, Clannad and Haruhi S1. I doubt it's a matter of ability and more a matter of choice of style.

Kyoani has shown in the past to have up to 5 animation groups in rotation (I have been checking credits) on projects like Clannad and Clannad AS without serious loss of quality. Think the K-on! elements are more a style decision then anything else.

Malkuth

2009-07-10, 17:09

At least half the key-animators that worked on K-on! have worked on Kanon, Clannad and Haruhi S1. I doubt it's a matter of ability and more a matter of choice of style.

Kyoani has shown in the past to have up to 5 animation groups in rotation (I have been checking credits) on projects like Clannad and Clannad AS without serious loss of quality. Think the K-on! elements are more a style decision then anything else.

This is slightly OT, but what the heck ...

Actually, mine and many others' problem is that KyoAni since Kannon and especially after Lucky Star makes decision like GONZO did after Kiddy Grade, degrade detail, increase frame-rate burst, plunge writing to the depths of Abyss ... and whoever doesn't like it is shafted and replaced by cheap alternatives :frustrated:

This aside from the whole moe-blob problem.

E8 is just a shinning example of the consequences of this strategy.

PS: Bashing a studio, whether it's worth it or not is not cool, just a sign of frustration and despair ;)

Ekul

2009-07-10, 17:11

They're shooting themselves in the foot with a fully automatic weapon.

Aesthetically speaking, I liked this one more than the previous two. Mikuru was quite good, and Yuki did more interesting things.

I'll be honest, though, this is more irritating than infuriating to me. After all, when you used to be a hardcore fan of homestarrunner.com, you get used to waiting for weeks on end and getting absolutely nothing new.

Proto

2009-07-10, 17:14

Just for the record for the people complaining about animation and art quality, has anyone here seen any normalization lectures during their math classes? Yep, the thing you do when you are comparing things which are measured in different scales. The scale here is the economic situation of the world. You do the math.

You cannot expect to have the same quality simply because it's not economically feasible anymore. And if you want Kyoani to take risks... well, they are doing it already. One that is at least short term cheaper. :heh:

Ithekro

2009-07-10, 17:17

There are better images of Haruhi in the K-On style where she looks rather cute. Especially since this is probably the most we have seen her without her ribbon/headband thing.

And Yuki's eyes are looking more and more like everyone elses rather than distant and machine like. "The face of ultimate sadness" could probably be filled by a picture of Yuki these days.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-10, 17:19

Kyoani has shown in the past to have up to 5 animation groups in rotation (I have been checking credits) on projects like Clannad and Clannad AS without serious loss of quality.

Most of the early episodes of AS used the art style used in this episode as well, at the expense of quality.

KyoAni's animation ability has more to do with attention to detail, fluidity, and background art a lot more than style anyway. Regarding those, they're still at the top.

Yes, some frames this episode sucked, and thank you all for pointing them out. BLR was still worse overall.

DJ Trouble

2009-07-10, 17:24

My first post. Hi, all.

Not when it uses a useless gimmick like showing the same episode with slight variations. Imagine a novel series where each volume is they same thing but with a few sentences changed. That's what it's like right now. This adds no benefit to dialogue or plot whatsoever. As I said already, there are better ways to portray a time loop and this isn't it.

The episodes airing now aren't like that. What we're getting is more like if each volume in the series was a retelling of the same events, but each written by a different author. The difference in author styles can be drastic, while these episodes don't feel that way, so I guess the authors would have to be working really closely with each other, and editing each others' work . . . but I would definitely read every novel if I actually liked the series, just like I've been watching every episode of Haruhi.

I imagine that if we knew for a fact what the season was going to be about, people wouldn't be upset. If we knew Disappearance was definitely coming, or not coming, everyone would probably enjoy EE for what it is.

dragon4dudes

2009-07-10, 17:30

Not necessarily. From what I've seen, most of us would still continually bash it for repetition.

Bri

2009-07-10, 17:41

This is slightly OT, but what the heck ...

Actually, mine and many others' problem is that KyoAni since Kannon and especially after Lucky Star makes decision like GONZO did after Kiddy Grade, degrade detail, increase frame-rate burst, plunge writing to the depths of Abyss ... and whoever doesn't like it is shafted and replaced by cheap alternatives :frustrated:

This aside from the whole moe-blob problem.

E8 is just a shinning example of the consequences of this strategy.

PS: Bashing a studio, whether it's worth it or not is not cool, just a sign of frustration and despair ;)

I just don't buy the whole Kyoani is losing their touch claim. This episode of Haruhi S2 proved it imo. They may try to find a new balance between line art styles but I don't think it's due to quality issues.

Just compare Kanon, to Clannad to Clannad AS. I can't see anything of an overal degrade, and personally I think the writing only improved with each of these series.

Gonzo and Kyoani are at different ends of the quality spectrum, just can't compare these two. The last acceptable Gonzo show I remember is FMP S1 and that's quite a while ago. A more fair comparison would be studio Bones, who seem to have lost a bit of their flair since Eureka 7.

As for Moe-blobs, that's Kyoani's bread and butter, Haruhi is the exception not the rule.

DeadlySoldier37

2009-07-10, 17:42

Kyon needs to desperately hit Ctrl + Break in order to get out of that infinite loop.

Archon_Wing

2009-07-10, 17:44

Kyon needs to desperately hit Ctrl + Break in order to get out of that infinite loop.

I think he needs alt-ctrl-del. Unforunately the universe appears to be running Vista. :uhoh:

Slice of Life

2009-07-10, 17:51

Halfways into the episode I looked at the ratings here. Do I need to say it already gave me some idea about the ending? :D I silently laughed during the whole rest of the episode (I swear!) imagining 32 pages of people being tsundere for Kyoto Animation.

Halfways into the episode I looked at the ratings here. Do I need to say it already gave me some idea about the ending? :D I silently laughed during the whole rest of the episode (I swear!) imagining 32 pages of people being tsundere for Kyoto Animation.
Halfways into the episode I looked at the ratings here. Do I need to say it already gave me some idea about the ending? :D I silently laughed during the whole rest of the episode (I swear!) imagining 32 pages of people being tsundere for Kyoto Animation.
Halfways into the episode I looked at the ratings here. Do I need to say it already gave me some idea about the ending? :D I silently laughed during the whole rest of the episode (I swear!) imagining 32 pages of people being tsundere for Kyoto Animation.
Halfways into the episode I looked at the ratings here. Do I need to say it already gave me some idea about the ending? :D I silently laughed during the whole rest of the episode (I swear!) imagining 32 pages of people being tsundere for Kyoto Animation.

Archon_Wing

2009-07-10, 17:54

Half into the episode I looked at the ratings here. Do I need to say it already gave me some idea about the ending? :D I silently laughed during the whole rest of the episode (I swear!) imagining 22 pages of people being tsundere for Kyoto Animation.

Half into the episode I looked at the ratings here. Do I need to say it already gave me some idea about the ending? :D I silently laughed during the whole rest of the episode (I swear!) imagining 22 pages of people being tsundere for Kyoto Animation.
Half into the episode I looked at the ratings here. Do I need to say it already gave me some idea about the ending? :D I silently laughed during the whole rest of the episode (I swear!) imagining 22 pages of people being tsundere for Kyoto Animation.
Half into the episode I looked at the ratings here. Do I need to say it already gave me some idea about the ending? :D I silently laughed during the whole rest of the episode (I swear!) imagining 22 pages of people being tsundere for Kyoto Animation.
Half into the episode I looked at the ratings here. Do I need to say it already gave me some idea about the ending? :D I silently laughed during the whole rest of the episode (I swear!) imagining 22 pages of people being tsundere for Kyoto Animation.

You have prepared well for the future because the week after next You have still prepared well for the future

Kirarakim

2009-07-10, 18:10

Slice of Life just make sure to copy and paste that post into the next couple of episode threads and you are done. :heh:

Whether people are happy with this episode or not I have to say the only thing we will be able to look forward to until Endless Eight is over is the same discussion. So even the threads are becoming repetitive. :uhoh:

Mentar

2009-07-10, 18:13

I just don't buy the whole Kyoani is losing their touch claim. This episode of Haruhi S2 proved it imo. They may try to find a new balance between line art styles but I don't think it's due to quality issues.

Excuse me? How can you compare the detailed and fluid art of Haruhi S1 with the terrible unstable and non-detailed K-On animation? The facial expressions which remind me more of Manabi Straight? The hands which look like pumped-up balloons drawn by kindergarteners? Please look at Malkuth's screenshot comparison (thank you for that!), and if you still see no terrible quality degradation, I can't help it.

Just compare Kanon, to Clannad to Clannad AS. I can't see anything of an overal degrade, and personally I think the writing only improved with each of these series.

The art of Kanon was definitely superior in my opinion. For example, take Mai's dancing episode. Nothing in Clannad or Clannad AS even came close. Script is up to personal preference, I guess.

Gonzo and Kyoani are at different ends of the quality spectrum, just can't compare these two. The last acceptable Gonzo show I remember is FMP S1 and that's quite a while ago. A more fair comparison would be studio Bones, who seem to have lost a bit of their flair since Eureka 7.

And this is the kind of KyoAni-fanboyish blindness which I can only shake my head on. Let's take Eden of the East and Shangri-La, as the two most recent GONZO shows. Both are VASTLY superior animation-wise compared to for example K-On. Stable and detailed art, higher resolution, more detailed backgrounds, less "moe at all costs" art which results in a much more realistic visual impression.

Sorry folks, but the days where KyoAni could awe at least me with visuals have been OVER by ~2 years now. Had K-On been released by any other noname studio, it wouldn't have merely flopped, it even wouldn't have been talked about. Open your eyes.

As for Moe-blobs, that's Kyoani's bread and butter, Haruhi is the exception not the rule.

Too bad that Haruhi is no moeblob show. At least it hasn't been. And it doesn't suit the show at all to be K-On-moefied.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-10, 18:21

Myssa Rei

2009-07-10, 18:26

*snips*

Incidentally the second part of Endless Eight felt the closest to the first season in terms of style, while all the others seemed to see-saw between the preference of the team handling the episode. Bri, you probably possess an eyesight worse than I have to not see how similar to K-On this episode was in terms of style though.

Roger Rambo

2009-07-10, 18:28

You cannot expect to have the same quality simply because it's not economically feasible anymore. And if you want Kyoani to take risks... well, they are doing it already. One that is at least short term cheaper. :heh:Nobody wants Kyoani to take risks. They want them to make high quality animation.

So pulling off the "Nice Endless 8" routine doesn't make us happy.

You're not looking hard enough yourself. Yes, the style has changed, but the characters are just as detailed.
And I'll agree with some other people that this style doesn't look nearly as nice as what we had in Season 2 and the second episode of endless 8.

xiangyun

2009-07-10, 18:36

Breaking 2+ years of lurking to voice a sincerely felt "FOR F%CK'S SAKE!"

Mentar

2009-07-10, 18:37

Sorry for having enough of an opinion to push back against stuff like "Gonzo and KyoAni are on opposing sides of the quality meter", Kaisos. Where do I buy a licence to be allowed to do this kind of sacrilege?

Pf :)

And sorry. If you watch any S1 episode first, and then the first Endless Eight afterwards, and you honestly try to tell me that the "Characters are as detailed", then *convulses in a cough*... then let's agree to disagree. And you might want to wipe your monitor :)

Kaioshin Sama

2009-07-10, 18:40

Before I consider jumping back into this, would someone care to define what "attention to detail" means specifically and in what way it's supposed to be attributed to Kyoani?

Ithekro

2009-07-10, 18:42

GONZO.....

Last thing they did that got them noticed was Strike Witches, Shangri-La, and Saki. Before that, Tower of Druaga, Rosario and Vampire, and Dragonaut...

Yeah....GONZO.....

Could have been worse I suppose. They could have gone though as wide an animation spectrum as Minami-ke got in their three seasons + OVA. At least that got a nice introduction that wave most of it off "Please don't expect much"

KyoAni at least maintains some standards in their animation. The background will be well done. The characters will usually be nice to look at (or at least consistent for the most part). The animation itself will generally be fluid...especially hair, water (tears) and snow effects.

thirdlc

2009-07-10, 18:44

Isn't is very simple that the reason each episode has a different style? Imagine what will happen if every E8 episodes has the same style. That would be way too much boringly boring to watch. I think that's all.

Why a 6? Because the quality of the animation and art for this series has been seriously deteriorating from the start of the new episodes -- they seem to be progressively shorting the budget. I don't believe its an "art style" interpretation but simply a *cheaper* sketchiness..
I can't understand why you guys attribute animation and art quality to budget. Can you explain the reason? I'll response two things in advance to what you'll say: 1) you can't apply it to KyoAni because they just use their own animators. 2) no matter how much budget you spend, animators' skills don't go up all of a sudden.

They lost a large chunk of their animators early on in Lucky Star's run..
Who do you have in mind? I know some animators quit after Lucky Star.

I'll give a post about Ueno and Takao later.
At this rate, when Horiguchi's episode come out, who knows how people would react.

phizzy

2009-07-10, 18:54

I feel annoyed. Inside.

mokuseimaru

2009-07-10, 18:58

I would like to start out by saying that I'm rather fascinated by general response to this episode of Haruhi. It seems a lot of people are raging at the fact that Endless Eight hasn't ended, but I'm not quite sure I understand WHY. After all, this episode was probably the first this season to really make me go "...whoa." Honestly, I was amazed at the direction this one took, as I hope to better explain better in future posts. I can't be the only one who understands the reasoning behind this story arc?

It seems it has become "cool" to bash KyoAni without rhyme or reason. I honestly suspect that many people complaining have not even SEEN this episode. Instead, they hear one phrase, "They did the same things as before," and assume that the animators are epic level trolls. However, I felt that despite the "same things" happening, the execution is very, VERY different, especially when it comes to Kyon.

I find it very hard to believe that anyone, even if they liked this approach, could not understand why many people didn't like it and/or are upset about it. For example: when the Blair Witch Project came out when I was a kid, there were a lot of people who thought it was the stupidest thing ever and not scary in the least; I, on the other hand, liked it a lot and thought it was pretty scary---but I could definitely understand why some people would hate it and might even want their money back.

I would also say that, no, you are not the only one who understands their reasoning. I would say most of us who don't like this experiment still understand it's intention---to make us feel the Kyon's bewilderment and helplessness and Yuki's deteriorating sanity by repeating the episode, just like the time loop is repeated for the characters. That much is pretty straightforward.

Now, as anyone who has seen a Hitchcock movie knows, pacing is critical for creating suspense or a sense of a character who is losing it. That is where I feel this effort fails---this method could have been done effectively in perhaps three episodes, skipping the first one and using the second, either this week or last week's, and then the final episode. By compressing the content to emphasize the differences and the changes in the iterations, I believe they could have achieved the same effect as they are with this five or six-part experiment, and without making anybody upset.

When you consider this, it seems to me more likely than not that the sponsors and network simply want to milk Haruhi for as long as they can---but given the dense chronology established in the novels, making filler other than that especially designed by Tanigawa like "Someday in the Rain" would be next to impossible. And while Tanigawa probably wouldn't mind writing scenarios for a few anime-only stories, there's only so much material he can fit into the gaps between stories. Therefore, Kadokawa decided they would have Kyoani make five (or more) episodes of Endless Eight, allowing them to expend less novel material and make more money for themselves in the long run.

Parappashi

2009-07-10, 19:17

The plane!

Haruhi wants to go skydiving. :rolleyes:

Nochgo

2009-07-10, 19:25

Haha, it seems everyone is having fun slashing at this episode. Could this episode be the most 1's received ever in animesuki?

Wait, so how many directors/groups are in KyoAni? I bet the directors are having a blast, each having a go at Haruhi. This time was done by the people of K-on, right? From the trade mark teeth.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-10, 19:26

The plane!

Haruhi wants to go skydiving. :rolleyes:

Actually Haruhi wants to do something else. Something with Kyon, alone, which of course he's too dense to notice or even consider.

Two more episodes folks.

Wait, so how many directors/groups are in KyoAni? I bet the directors are having a blast, each having a go at Haruhi. This time was done by the people of K-on, right? From the trade mark teeth.

There are at least five teams and eight named directors. Take that as you will.

Solachinx

2009-07-10, 19:57

Actually Haruhi wants to do something else. Something with Kyon, alone, which of course he's too dense to notice or even consider.

Homework??

Jintor

2009-07-10, 20:06

Bri

2009-07-10, 20:24

Excuse me? How can you compare the detailed and fluid art of Haruhi S1 with the terrible unstable and non-detailed K-On animation? The facial expressions which remind me more of Manabi Straight? The hands which look like pumped-up balloons drawn by kindergarteners? Please look at Malkuth's screenshot comparison (thank you for that!), and if you still see no terrible quality degradation, I can't help it.

That screenshot is hardly indicative for the whole series. Take a few of the weaker shots from the Mystérique Sign episodes and S2 might even look better.

The art of Kanon was definitely superior in my opinion. For example, take Mai's dancing episode. Nothing in Clannad or Clannad AS even came close. Script is up to personal preference, I guess.

Clan. AS ep 22. the cherry blossoms falling, easily holds it's own.

And this is the kind of KyoAni-fanboyish blindness which I can only shake my head on. Let's take Eden of the East and Shangri-La, as the two most recent GONZO shows. Both are VASTLY superior animation-wise compared to for example K-On. Stable and detailed art, higher resolution, more detailed backgrounds, less "moe at all costs" art which results in a much more realistic visual impression.

I'll just ignore the elitist attitude as moe-bitterness. I hope I don't even have to explain the differences in aproach between the series you mentioned so I will leave it a that.

I am not blind to Kyoani's faults. They can't create an original story if their life depended on it and they can't do much else then draw pretty girls. However in terms of adapting existing stories, directing, color use and lighting, they are top notch.

As for Gonzo, they have poured out tons of mediocre material the last decade. If they don't mess up the animation then the storyline goes down the drain. I'm a mecha fan first and foremost. I have a lot of gripes with Gonzo on that part. They can't hold a candle against works of Satelight, Sunrise, Bones or Gainax. The one time they made a great looking OVA, Yukikaze, it just crashed and burned for not having a plot. They made a few decent shows, Saikano and Romeo x Juliet (had to look those up even) but given the volume of the output of their work it has been disappointing. I think my comparison to Bones is more fair as that is another studio that produces limited amounts of high quality work.

Sorry folks, but the days where KyoAni could awe at least me with visuals have been OVER by ~2 years now. Had K-On been released by any other noname studio, it wouldn't have merely flopped, it even wouldn't have been talked about. Open your eyes.

Shows like Chobits, Strawberry Panic, Tora dora, K-on! and Lucky Star do very well with the youngest anime crowd over here. Let's face it, there is a market for cute characers doing cute things.

Too bad that Haruhi is no moeblob show. At least it hasn't been. And it doesn't suit the show at all to be K-On-moefied.

Here I would actually agree, I love the 2006 designs over the current ones, but I'm more then happy to see where the show leads.

Ithekro

2009-07-10, 20:35

There is a moeblob in Haruhi....she's named Mikuru, and she does it better than most of those that followed her.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-10, 20:51

There is a moeblob in Haruhi....she's named Mikuru, and she does it better than most of those that followed her.

Isn't that her explicit purpose in the SOS-dan anyway? ;P

Wow, we're getting extremely circular at this point. I sense a pattern with the posters in this thread:

a. Posters who complain because of the extension of Endless Eight.
b. Posters who complain because of the inconsistent styles of animation seen in between the iterations of Endless Eight.
c. Posters who complain because it's a KyoAni work.
d. Posters who complain because of Kadokawa's tomfoolery.
e. Posters who defend the extension of Endless Eight because it's surprising.
f. Posters who defend the repetition because it's done by KyoAni.
g. Posters who don't really care either way and are just content to watch where this all goes.
h. Posters who haven't actually watched the episode at all or even care about Haruhi, and just want to stir up trouble.

Ikonomi

2009-07-10, 21:02

a. Posters who complain because of the extension of Endless Eight.
b. Posters who complain because of the inconsistent styles of animation seen in between the iterations of Endless Eight.
c. Posters who complain because it's a KyoAni work.
d. Posters who complain because of Kadokawa's tomfoolery.
e. Posters who defend the extension of Endless Eight because it's surprising.
f. Posters who defend the repetition because it's done by KyoAni.
g. Posters who don't really care either way and are just content to watch where this all goes.

I say we all pick a letter and run with it. I pick H!

Jintor

2009-07-10, 21:29

I'll roll with g.

SSJiffy

2009-07-10, 21:33

I'll roll with g.

I'm definitely in the a camp. I've no qualms about the animation, directors, producer, etc.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-10, 21:35

I'm in the "a" camp too. The episodes were great, I'd just rather see them use that greatness on Disappearance.

Solictum

2009-07-10, 21:40

I'm part of g...

GDB

2009-07-10, 21:42

I'll go with g. I don't really like the constant repetition, but I'll go with the flow until I get bored enough to read the novels.

Ithekro

2009-07-10, 21:54

But Haruhi isn't an h. series.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-10, 22:01

But Haruhi isn't an h. series.

I think that was an incredibly bad pun, even for you. :p

hongee

2009-07-10, 22:14

A. A. A. A.

I want to see Disappearance nao.

wittyusername

2009-07-10, 22:17

I'll choose a, e, and g. BOOM BAM, multiple choice.

I don't like how ridiculously long Endless Eight has gotten, but I definitely wasn't expecting it. Watching basically the same episode for the past couple weeks isn't exactly the most riveting experience I could hope for, but it's interesting enough for me to have downloaded it, and to have read stuff here.

I'm also choosing g, because who am I kidding? The entire season could be Endless Eight, or the rest of the episodes could just be real-time footage of Kyon walking up the giant hill leading to his school, and I'd still buy the DVDs. It's Haruhi.

In that situation I'd also be buying the DVDs because it'd feel weird not to own them if they were available. That's the same force that led me to buy >20 volumes of Inuyasha, even though I stopped being even remotely interested in it about four volumes in.

Lololol what Inuyasha I haven't made any regrettable purchases in the past

Sackett

2009-07-10, 22:41

a, b, d, and e for me.

What? I can't complain about the extension and defend it at the same time for being ballsy?

Just watch me.

Proto

2009-07-10, 22:52

e,f. Yay fanboyism. Though that makes that I have as much credibility defending something as reckoner or KS have when attacking something. :heh:

Peanutbutter003

2009-07-10, 23:23

a here.

Who remembers the time where everyone was saying Endless Eight can be done in one episode? Look where we are now... :heh:

Vampire

2009-07-10, 23:30

Isn't that her explicit purpose in the SOS-dan anyway? ;P

Wow, we're getting extremely circular at this point. I sense a pattern with the posters in this thread:

a. Posters who complain because of the extension of Endless Eight.
b. Posters who complain because of the inconsistent styles of animation seen in between the iterations of Endless Eight.
c. Posters who complain because it's a KyoAni work.
d. Posters who complain because of Kadokawa's tomfoolery.
e. Posters who defend the extension of Endless Eight because it's surprising.
f. Posters who defend the repetition because it's done by KyoAni.
g. Posters who don't really care either way and are just content to watch where this all goes.
h. Posters who haven't actually watched the episode at all or even care about Haruhi, and just want to stir up trouble.
Haha, I'm totally G.

ErianMyra

2009-07-10, 23:30

Maybe he should ask the cicadas?

Ikonomi

2009-07-10, 23:34

ReneeBurossamu

2009-07-10, 23:52

...Am I the only D?

If I'm the first one to say this, the only thing that I liked about this episode is that we saw Nagato in more detail, and she was... bored. Oh, it killed me inside.

DonZabu

2009-07-10, 23:56

I distinctly remember watching the first Endless Eight, being completely unfamiliar with how the story went, and thinking at the end "at least they got the filler out of the way quickly."

And look what happens next. And next. And next.

:eyespin::eyespin::eyespin::eyespin:

EDIT: The fact that I got the 666th post can't be a good omen.

panzerfan

2009-07-10, 23:58

(I've been away and refraining from talking about Endless Eight since I'd just spoil it horribly for having been the one that did the translation for this chapter on Baka-Tsuki XD)

I think the thing that should be reiterated by looking at Endless Eight is Kyon's lament...

The deadline, however, is up. Today is the thirtieth of August, leaving only one day left for summer break. It will be over if we don't think of something within the next two days, but I have absolutely no clue as to what to try. The summer light, the cries of higurashi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicada)... All the ingredients of summer are sources of anxiety.

I don't see any reason to get into furious fit of rage over this looping at all, even if the novels didn't bother doing this. The animated medium makes this one iteration relatively painless...

X207

2009-07-11, 00:06

lol
its only been 5 eps in this arc but i alreadyknow how nagato feels like. i really really hope they finish off the arc in ep6. imo the whole arc could've been completed in 3 or 4 eps. now its a bit overkill even if this series is rather good. though i do like noticing how small details are changed once in a while ie the yukatas in ep 5.

The Bloodlust Kid

2009-07-11, 00:17

I'm an HG, hooooo~!

But back on topic though, hasn't anybody come to the conclusion that the K-On! style is just part of the slight variation gimmick? Next episode will probably return to a more familiar style.

Malkuth

2009-07-11, 00:34

Actually Haruhi wants to do something else. Something with Kyon, alone, which of course he's too dense to notice or even consider.

So the airplane is a social allegory about teen sexuality and UNICEF witch-hunts (http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/07/07/agnes-chan-we-dont-need-freedom-of-expression/)?

Isn't that her explicit purpose in the SOS-dan anyway? ;P

Wow, we're getting extremely circular at this point. I sense a pattern with the posters in this thread:

a. Posters who complain because of the extension of Endless Eight.
b. Posters who complain because of the inconsistent styles of animation seen in between the iterations of Endless Eight.
c. Posters who complain because it's a KyoAni work.
d. Posters who complain because of Kadokawa's tomfoolery.
e. Posters who defend the extension of Endless Eight because it's surprising.
f. Posters who defend the repetition because it's done by KyoAni.
g. Posters who don't really care either way and are just content to watch where this all goes.
h. Posters who haven't actually watched the episode at all or even care about Haruhi, and just want to stir up trouble.

I go with a, b[1], c[2] & d.

[1] The complaints are more about the inconsistancies between 2006/novels and 2009/Clannad/K-On!

[2] Complaints are focused on KyoAni's perceived degeneration in their works.

Maybe he should ask the cicadas?

Even they will cry ... oops, wrong studio, no chance for Yuki to turn yangire :heh:

Kid Ying

2009-07-11, 00:37

Hum, i don't think Haruhi in k-on style is that bad, as long as well animated and the story is nice(which, normally it is... And, to be honest, still is, it's just is bad because we all want to see new material), i can even endure Haruhi in a Pokemon style.

But hey, it doesn't help that the chapter with that style is on endless eight. I think it would be helluvalot nice if every episode was focused in one character, to see what they did in the time loop... But i guess it's impossible without spoiling a lot of things, like, what is the confidential information and what Yuki do in saturday nights... Well, can't have everything...

OkamiNoKaze

2009-07-11, 00:42

Hi all, hit me with a "g" as far as the art style goes, I seem to remember reading somewhere before the new episodes aired that there would be a slight change to the designs, And if you look at even that "Disappearance" picture you can kind of already see the K-on-esque influence.

I think at the bare minimum I think this story was destined to be three episodes, and I concede a stretch to 4, but thinking about and factoring in Kyon and his laziness, it all makes sense, It also makes sense why everyone calls him lazy, I didn't really catch that in season 1 that much.

As far as DVDs go I think a cool special feature, would be to create your own Endless Eight II by combining scenes from all the failed attempts minus obviously the first one since they didn't figure it out.

I think this was Haruhi's best Yukata so far, probably that way for all of them, and is it usual for women to have that many different swimming suits? Just a lingering question since part one, why they just don't wear the ones from Lone Island, though I think Yuki does once. It does seem that Kyon makes just a bit more progress towards the answer each time.

I actually marathoned the previous 3 parts before watching the new one, interesting experience, seems as if every episode has it's shining scene, I think this one it was the cloud scene. I think it would be cool to animate the Karoake session once, with sound, for at least a taste of a new song. I still also think aside from Mikuru's frog suit, the others have the same colors and patterns from the Lucky Star OVA.

I'm also starting to be one of those that think this is not the second season not yet, just as some said season 1 2.0 that this is a way to buy time working on the true second season.

Ikonomi

2009-07-11, 00:43

But hey, it doesn't help that the chapter with that style is on endless eight. I think it would be helluvalot nice if every episode was focused in one character, to see what they did in the time loop... But i guess it's impossible without spoiling a lot of things, like, what is the confidential information and what Yuki do in saturday nights... Well, can't have everything...

We got a taste of Yuki's recreation time on Someday in the Rain. I guess I wouldn't mind watching her read for 20 minutes.

Launch

2009-07-11, 01:02

I think this was Haruhi's best Yukata so far, probably that way for all of them, and is it usual for women to have that many different swimming suits? Just a lingering question since part one, why they just don't wear the ones from Lone Island, though I think Yuki does once. It does seem that Kyon makes just a bit more progress towards the answer each time.

I agree about the swimsuits. xD

Either the girls go shopping for a new one every cycle just to wear to the pool... or everyone in the SOS Brigade has a super-massive wardrobe. (Yuki's would just be like 20 school uniforms though xD)

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-11, 01:13

Either the girls go shopping for a new one every cycle just to wear to the pool... or everyone in the SOS Brigade has a super-massive wardrobe. (Yuki's would just be like 20 school uniforms though xD)

I'd assume Haruhi takes them out to buy the swimsuits.

OkamiNoKaze

2009-07-11, 01:13

On the Music video thread there's a cool link to a video showing Endless 8 1-4 side by side, very interesting. though it is raw

Ithekro

2009-07-11, 01:26

Hey, you corrupted my h! I hereby switch my choice to g. G+, because I have a Positive Outlook.

h is usually corrupted.

And that 4 in 1 video shows just how different each of these episodes are while still being the same general plot.

Ikonomi

2009-07-11, 01:37

h is usually corrupted.

Touche...!

Reckoner

2009-07-11, 01:47

My largest complaint is not about the studio or Kadokawa, or the ridiculous repetitions of the same plot, but the fans that actually sit here and garble this stuff up. I usually respect other people's opinions... But it's these sorts of fans that do nothing but harm anime as a form of art.

Seriously, there is a limit to when someone will respect your opinion. I no longer find it rational to sit here and say "Job well done."

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-11, 01:50

My largest complaint is not about the studio or Kadokawa, or the ridiculous repetitions of the same plot, but the fans that actually sit here and garble this stuff up. I usually respect other people's opinions... But it's these sorts of fans that do nothing but harm anime as a form of art.

Another "Arbiter of the Truth"? :D

Seriously, if you don't like what this show is doing, or its fans, there's always other anime. In fact, this summer season is great, in my books.

OkamiNoKaze

2009-07-11, 01:52

from the first chapter of the first book, too ep. 00 too the newest episode, this series has been to me unconventional, and assumptions in this series can lead you astray.

Airman8

2009-07-11, 02:27

The Degeneration of Haruhi Suzumiya: http://between-betwixt.blogspot.com/2009/07/degeneration-of-haruhi-suzumiya.html

On this note, can I just say some people (like in this blog) are taking this situation way, way, way too seriously? I think it's funny that they're taking up most of the summer doing this stunt. It's true to the story in a way many other shows can't compare to. I think that goes against the idea that the studio has stopped caring about this show. I think they're just having fun with the opportunity the story presented, they're trying different animation styles for the hell of it, and they're challenging and riling up the very dedicated and passionate fanbase the show has earned. That all sounds good to me!

Myssa Rei

2009-07-11, 02:29

*snips*

Pretty much what's been needed to be said and pointed out has already been said at this point. As it is, arguments are, literally, going around in circles. Which is fitting, given how controversial the episode is, and the heated reactions it garnered from posters.

I'm easing off a bit from the thread as I've already said my bit. You should do it too, else you're going to experience the same old arguments over and over.

Malkuth

2009-07-11, 02:37

The Degeneration of Haruhi Suzumiya: http://between-betwixt.blogspot.com/2009/07/degeneration-of-haruhi-suzumiya.html

On this note, can I just say some people (like in this blog) are taking this situation way, way, way too seriously?

WOW, usually people blame me for never being serious :heh:

I think it's funny that they're taking up most of the summer doing this stunt. It's true to the story in a way many other shows can't compare to. I think that goes against the idea that the studio has stopped caring about this show. I think they're just having fun with the opportunity the story presented, they're trying different animation styles for the hell of it, and they're challenging and riling up the very dedicated and passionate fanbase the show has earned. That all sounds good to me!

It sounds good, probably because you never cared about the show anyway. I wouldn't mind either if they butchered Naruto, Bleach, Gundam, Macross, Prince of Tennis, Shugo Chara, etc. I might even found it artistically challenging and a chance to revive their "zombified" audience (that's a sarcastic comment, please don't flame) ;)

Airman8

2009-07-11, 02:41

Malkuth

2009-07-11, 02:48

I love the show! I've seen the first season twice and I've been reading all the novels and telling all my friends to watch it. I'd be very disappointed if the show didn't make it all the way though, but I just don't feel that there's any risk of that. I think they know what they need to do to get it right. The fans shouldn't expect everything to come at once. It's better to be patient and just enjoy it.

Sorry, but I do not get the argument. Kadokawa/KyoAni is consciously producing a lesser product waiting for the right time to reveal their masterwork :twitch:

Anyway, on the financial front, it makes absolutely no sense to risk/experiment (which I doubt is the reason, but for the arguments sake I assume it's true) now! Failure in DVD sales and an alienated fanbase, will kill one of their "milkier" cash-cows, but anyway, it's not uncommon for people in finance, marketing and management to make the worse choices in difficult times, their incompetence is legendary outside their circles :heh:

Ithekro

2009-07-11, 03:17

It is weird. Haruhi has always seemed like an experimental show. It always seems to be taking risks. You never know exactly what you are going to get with this show. First it comes practically out of nowhere with an extremely cheesy looking episode that makes no sense at first, and then starts to make perfect sense as you realize what it is. Then they threw the episode order completely out of wack just to make things more intresting. Then they confuse us by not sticking to any one particular type of story. If this slice of life? School romance? Harem comedy, science fiction, sports? Then they give us the characters, with the title charcter being a seemingly unlikable girl and the main character is an extremely snarky narrator. Then we get a moe doormat girl with big breasts, and rei clone with glasses that reads all the time, and some pretty boy that doesn't open his eyes all that often. Just what is going on here? But then we come to love these characters for various reasons. Haruhi has her own set of charms. Kyon's snarky narration is pretty much the first selling point of the series we get. Mikuru began to define various moe modes for later series. Yuki breaks the Rei mold to become her own brand with a rather large (and fanatical) following. And Itsuki gives us a mountain of theories that have translated into some rather odd high scientific and physiological debates over the last three years.

Hype or no hype, Haruhi has changed things in anime and in various fan bases. I can honestly say I came into this series blind without hype. I came across it by accident and enjoyed it without outside knowledge or pressure. I simply watched an episode (the Space Game episode to be exact) then started looking to see what else this SOS-dan does. Saw "Live a Live", then figured out I should go back to the start and watch from there since the next episode seemed like it started in the middle of something (Melancholy V). It doesn't work for everyone...but it does work.

As for Endless Eight...Seeing all four episodes side by side....it is actually kind of amazing how different they all are, even if three of them are basically the same plot. The angles, the lighting, the dialogue, even how the scenes are structured are different. Sometimes it is minor, and sometimes it is really noticable when you see them together. You never know exactly what you are going to get with Haruhi. And that suits me just fine.

panzerfan

2009-07-11, 03:42

I personally think that it's a gamble to repeat several iterations of Endless Eight and diverging from the original novel approach. I enjoy this given that the gritty details from the novels can be played out in several recursive runs better than one abridged episode, but this obviously isn't the prevailing opinion.

I suppose that the cop-out clause of calling it 'only anime' will fall to deaf ears given that people are highly opinionated over this approach, which perhaps is a good thing. I personally think that the counterargument to KyoAni out of idea and doing this one same thing over and over again would be in their not-so-long-ago adoption of Clannad Afterstory or that of K-on even (now the animation issue is another story).

kniteowl

2009-07-11, 03:46

The only reason I watched the 3rd & 4th Iterations of E8 was, to see Yuki's different actions in each Episode because she's the only character who is most likely to act differently, even if the difference are minor... is this the 2nd time we've seen her check out the telescope btw?

kb7

2009-07-11, 03:59

I'm one of the few that are actually enjoying this. :heh:

Mentar

2009-07-11, 04:02

Another "Arbiter of the Truth"? :D

Seriously, if you don't like what this show is doing, or its fans, there's always other anime. In fact, this summer season is great, in my books.

It's so ironic, you know. In 99% of the cases, I find myself in your position - defending an anime against what I perceive unwarranted criticism. And doesn't this "Arbiter of Truth" line feel familiar? And this "if you don't like it, go away" approach - splendid.

However, Kaisos: The point Reckoner is making (along with many others, including me) is that there are a significant number of people who are caught up in blind denial, and whose conditioned reflex is to refuse any form of criticism towards the object of worship, regardless of whether or not the criticism is warranted. To an unbiased observer, this should be obvious, and to a rational observer, too. I could imagine that even you could admit that these people exist, though you might debate the number. Right?

For me, the situation is simple. All I'm writing goes with IMHO. Naturally, what else. But I've seen KyoAni decline from awesome to great to good to questionable-mediocre (K-On and some parts of Haruhi). And instead of having this decline (again, IMHO!) communicated back to KyoAni, we have a vociferous group of fans screaming for more. K-On was the first time I can remember when a noticeable group of former fans dared to voice disapproval about the art, and when a split about the quality of the show formed. The worshippers worshipped, but there were apostates (like me) who would prefer KyoAni to return to their former strengths of realistic animation and non-moe themes.

And now, I see them ruin a show I really liked alot. Sorry man, for me, making 5+ episodes of the same source is BS, and I will call it what it is. Naturally, true worshippers would undoubtedly manage to cheer 25 minutes of white noise on the screen as long as it's from KyoAni, but I'm none of those anymore. I want KyoAni to understand that we (the apostate group I belong to) disapprove of their developments, and I want them to REVERSE COURSE. But you can only achieve that if your protest is heard.

My wishlist:

1) Fire or reassign the artistic directors who are responsible for the changes
2) Stop trolling your clientele in a blatant attempt to stretch the material in order to milk the cash cow longer (I hope/expect that the DVD sales will tank)

We'll see, I guess.

TubZzz

2009-07-11, 04:35

is this suppose to be a joke or something x_x

does anyone know how long this thing is supposed to go for... i mean the time loop thing

Ithekro

2009-07-11, 04:41

Endlessly....(15,513 and counting)

Current bet is six episodes of Endless Eight.

stubby42

2009-07-11, 04:42

I actually enjoyed this episode alot more than the previous endless 8 and I have no real idea why, other than the animation was better.

ac195

2009-07-11, 04:45

Good for you KyoAni/Kadokawa, I get the hint, you guys aren't dumb and actually have some artistic vision. Not only can you pass this off as an attempt to give the viewer an understanding of Nagato's situation... but you also invoke actual emotion out of the viewers while poking fun at the fact that otaku today are all about "instant gratification." ("I want Season X of Series X NAO!!!... blah blah blah")

Another thought just crossed my mind… the repeats could also be a commentary on the stagnation of the anime industry of today… every season the market is flooded with unoriginal/repackaged series and yet otaku seem to just eat it up…

You could also view Kyon’s apathy toward the end of each show as a commentary of Japan’s youth today and their view on having “no future.” A commentary about the modern attitude of: “It's too late... There’s nothing I can do… so why should I even try…”

Damn, this just keeps my noodle-a-spinning :D

Well, those are my thoughts on whats happening. Hey, maybe it could all just be bad directing, but I believe there's more to it than that. I mean you couldn't screw-up Haruhi... unless you tried to... which doesn't make sense.

Ithekro

2009-07-11, 04:51

You know...there needs to be a Lucky Star episode made for Konata to give her impression of this series of episodes. It is just asking for an in-house commentary via KyoAni's private otaku/Haruhi's alter-ego.

kvnphm1

2009-07-11, 04:56

Maybe he should ask the cicadas?

funny you should say that because I feel like i'm in a higurashi episode right now... please kill me.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-11, 05:11

I want KyoAni to understand that we (the apostate group I belong to) disapprove of their developments, and I want them to REVERSE COURSE. But you can only achieve that if your protest is heard.

Aaaactually someone already posted both the company Email of KyoAni and Kadokawa Shoten a few pages ago. I sent them a piece of my mind already. You should too.

Ah, here are the emails:

KyoAni Company email: sr@kyotoanimation.co.jp

Kadokawa Shoten's Feedback Entry section: https://wwws.kadokawa.co.jp/shop/sup...gi?ref_pat=web

Kadokawa Shoten's CS Email: customer@kadokawa.co.jp

Bri

2009-07-11, 05:19

I'm getting a sense of Deja vu. It's like we never left 1996. Half the fanbase going mental over the last episodes of EVA.

panzerfan

2009-07-11, 05:29

and it's not even the last episode of EVA in this case... people aren't turned into liquified soylent green yet.

I feel a little lonely, being the one of those people treating all of this in a fairweathered fashion. I cannot arouse the sense of melancholy, intrigue, regrets, boredom, evanescence, rampage, intrigue, indignity, dissociation, nor have I really wavered in the face of of the developments, leaving me with only a 'meh' voiced with hesitation.

Whilst we are drawn to the plight of Nagato with just 5x 20minute recursion, it is somehow a bit of a pity, as aforementioned, that here by only a chapter of one in 10 volumes that is being reiterated when the said cycles could've been used to advance the novel storyline. I suppose this makes me give a wishy-washy position about where I stand in the recent developments, and in truth, I've no firm ground. I would think that I've better love of the novel adaptation, yet I found no great hate in the anime (story wise) thus far.

To me, the pitchforks are reserved only if KyoAni will choose to grossly deviate from the novel course of action in the truly major arcs. It hasn't come to that point, so not raising a fit for nuisances is fine. A personal feeling to me is that the fire and brimstone should be stoked come disappearance, should it become warranted at that point.

Although raising dissatisfaction is valid (so long as you've actually served as patron to KyoAni/Kadokawa by actually putting money where your mouths are at, literally speaking). Save your pent up energy though, for you'd need it if Shinji really chokes Asuka, again.

Jintor

2009-07-11, 05:46

The main, main, main issue I have is that I don't think the loop and the loop's resolution are really worth all this money and (especially) time.

Sheba

2009-07-11, 06:10

And this is the kind of KyoAni-fanboyish blindness which I can only shake my head on. Let's take Eden of the East and Shangri-La, as the two most recent GONZO shows. Both are VASTLY superior animation-wise compared to for example K-On. Stable and detailed art, higher resolution, more detailed backgrounds, less "moe at all costs" art which results in a much more realistic visual impression.

Eden of the East, Gonzo's is NOT.

Eden of the East is a production of I.G. At least, get it right.

*sigh* In the light of what's happening now, I am comfortable enough to say that I can live with Madhouse doing Strawberry Panic, Devil May Cry and Maid Guy. Or I.G letting me down with the second half of Blood+.

So another fuck-up from one of my fav studios is not changing anything for me.

Telmah

2009-07-11, 07:15

I could certainly see why people wouldn’t be happy. If you went into this with expectations, maybe it would really be frustrating. That being said, if I dislike a show pass the point where it isn‘t fun or interesting, then I drop it and move on. No one is putting a gun to you head and forcing you to watch it.

The very first episode of the Endless Eight, I found to be boring overall. I was just like, oh its filler about how they spent their summer vacation. Nothing interesting here--I hadn’t found the first episode to be all that riveting either to be honest. The second episode, I thought “oh, the first episode makes sense now, they were setting this one up and now they’ll this will wrap up by the end of it” and I was really floored when it didn’t. But then I thought, that’s Haruhi for me, keeping me on my toes. With the third episode…all bets were off. I didn’t know what was going to happen next--no other show would have dared drag it on any longer. And that willingness to break conventions is what I really liked about Haruhi in the first place.

It really makes me think of what Ithekro posted a bit ago. Haruhi defined itself by breaking conventions. Let’s shuffle the episodes in a random order and still make a coherent story.

The 8th episode aired by the last story wise--normally you’d hope for a last episode to be action packed and have closure. Instead, we get intentionally long and boring scenes of Yuki reading--and of course no closure (though that’s really all too common in anime endings.) The first episode of season one--doesn’t even introduce the characters it just throws you to the dogs--again breaking a convention--mainly in this case that you have to introduce characters first--one of my friends watches new anime for three episodes because he believes it takes that long to see if its any good. Like Ithekro points out…what genre is Haruhi supposed to be exactly--what tags do we put on it if we want to file it neatly away? The only thing way to really pin it down with a label is to say it is an unconventional show--much like Haruhi is an unconventional female lead.

My understanding was they started airing the series without any of the “proper” hype--they just started playing it when it was supposed to be re-runs? Again, they are striving to do stuff that no one else would do. Its not a second season but a rebuild of the first. I read that the first was slimmed down because the studio needed to produce Kanon 2006 once--going back and changing the course is something that I don’t think any other studio would have done either.

I think what they are doing with Endless Eight is in character for the show itself, if you consider, this idea of them breaking conventions. You have a time loop where they repeat the “boring” parts instead of the changes, abet in a slightly different manner. New twist on an old genre? At the same time, they throw the manga readers and anime watchers alike in a frenzy--they restore that sense of what will happen next--that lack of security to us? It creates a buzz that no publicity budget in the world could top. Like it or loathe it, people are talking about it and that’s a feat for a second season of anything.

jonli

2009-07-11, 07:19

The main, main, main issue I have is that I don't think the loop and the loop's resolution are really worth all this money and (especially) time.

Well a lot of people (including me) has been saying that all this build up is not only meant for the loop's resolution, but beyond (novel spoilers which I shall not say this time since I broke the rules twice already >.<)

ac195

2009-07-11, 07:48

Supergrunch

2009-07-11, 07:57

Personally I find this loop hilarious.

Malkuth

2009-07-11, 08:36

Well a lot of people (including me) has been saying that all this build up is not only meant for the loop's resolution, but beyond (novel spoilers which I shall not say this time since I broke the rules twice already >.<)

Considering the novels, BLR and Mystery Sign are the main "lead-ins" to The Disappearance; E8 and Sighs to a minor extent.

Still that does not justify more than a couple of episodes :frustrated:

And certainly has nothing to do with Haruhi and Nagato looking like Yui@K-On!

Which I find also puzzling, I also like cute stuff, I am a big fan of Hayate no Gotoku (http://between-betwixt.blogspot.com/2008/05/hayate-no-gotoku.html), but still I would not like Haruhi looking like Nagi, Yuki like Isumi and Mikuru like Ayumu! Not to mention that at least in that case character designs and stills would be decent not like K-On!

Mooglar

2009-07-11, 08:49

omggggggggggg this anime sucks lol someone just needs to punch all of them gawd 5 episodes and nothing interesting has happened next ep im just gonna skip to the end o.o

npal

2009-07-11, 08:52

And certainly has nothing to do with Haruhi and Nagato looking like Yui@K-On!

That's actually one part I didn't mind :heh: (shameless Yui fan here)

jonli

2009-07-11, 09:56

Considering the novels, BLR and Mystery Sign are the main "lead-ins" to The Disappearance; E8 and Sighs to a minor extent.

Still that does not justify more than a couple of episodes :frustrated:

And certainly has nothing to do with Haruhi and Nagato looking like Yui@K-On!

Which I find also puzzling, I also like cute stuff, I am a big fan of Hayate no Gotoku (http://between-betwixt.blogspot.com/2008/05/hayate-no-gotoku.html), but still I would not like Haruhi looking like Nagi, Yuki like Isumi and Mikuru like Ayumu! Not to mention that at least in that case character designs and stills would be decent not like K-On!

I actually kinda chuckled when I read this.

PLEASE YOU KNOW YOU HAD A BONER WHEN HARUHI TOOK OFF HER HAIRBAND! Don't deny this, sheesh! We're all on the same boat here.

But I do agree that they're stretching this. I think if they wanted to make us feel the "frustration" effect, 4 episodes were already enough. Of course I raged for a long time. But after calming myself down and taking a look at KyoAni's history, they have yet to fail me (although I don't care about Key animations). Look at how careful they've been planning Haruhi's return, I shall have faith in them.

Noe

2009-07-11, 10:05

Well...this second season has disappointed me, and the 130+ other users who rated it a 1 feel the same I suppose.

OkamiNoKaze

2009-07-11, 11:28

I've got it, didn't the reruns start on April 1? Or was that the announcement of the re-airing, either way, I've got, this is the biggest longest running April Fools joke ever. When Endless 8 is over they'll say "April Fools, Season 2 really starts in December 2009"

Rezard

2009-07-11, 11:32

It really makes me think of what Ithekro posted a bit ago. Haruhi defined itself by breaking conventions. Let’s shuffle the episodes in a random order and still make a coherent story.
[...]
I think what they are doing with Endless Eight is in character for the show itself, if you consider, this idea of them breaking conventions. You have a time loop where they repeat the “boring” parts instead of the changes, abet in a slightly different manner. New twist on an old genre? At the same time, they throw the manga readers and anime watchers alike in a frenzy--they restore that sense of what will happen next--that lack of security to us? It creates a buzz that no publicity budget in the world could top. Like it or loathe it, people are talking about it and that’s a feat for a second season of anything.

The episodes shuffle was a genius move, but I dont think prolonging Endless Eight forever is a genius move. Sure it is unexpected, but there's no point in being original without being smart, they are just being boring. Who wants to see the same stuff milions of times?

I think being creative just counts when you do something that pleases people and not that cause people to be tortured. They could do lots of absurd and incoherent stuff, but that's not creativity, that's not origanlity, it is just absurd and incoherent stuff, nothing more, nothing less.

Well, it is just the risk you take when you TRY to be original, you can end being just absurd. Even if they do 13 eps of endless eight, I wouldnt care, I can wait for better times or I can simply go watch something else. I am just afraid the show loses some audience and we dont get to see a real season 2 anymore.

Terrestrial Dream

2009-07-11, 11:37

Well I would be honest for some reason I enjoyed this episode a little, normally I would say it was terrible episode but I don't know why I enjoyed it a little. For now I am not buying into all the crap about this endless summer being great because it is artistic or something along that line, because all these repetition is quite annoying and being artistic doesn't make these episodes more fun to watch. The only reason I enjoyed a little was that the minor difference of Kyon realizing the deja-vu, when I saw that I felt like the episode would be different and I kept hoping that it would have an ending. But still the it was a pretty mediocre episode and trying to create feeling of suspense alone can't make this episode great.
But still because of this the episode where the loop will end might feel like have an orgasm or something along that line :heh:.

Malkuth

2009-07-11, 12:31

I actually kinda chuckled when I read this.

PLEASE YOU KNOW YOU HAD A BONER WHEN HARUHI TOOK OFF HER HAIRBAND! Don't deny this, sheesh! We're all on the same boat here.

To preserve what little dignity I might have ... NO! I did not!

When Haruhi is abusing Mikuru, well that's another story altogether :p

But I do agree that they're stretching this. I think if they wanted to make us feel the "frustration" effect, 4 episodes were already enough. Of course I raged for a long time. But after calming myself down and taking a look at KyoAni's history, they have yet to fail me (although I don't care about Key animations). Look at how careful they've been planning Haruhi's return, I shall have faith in them.

I don't think so, actually it feels more rushed than anything else. If I may speculate, Kadokawa wanted to bring out the franchise, because of predicted recession, so they pushed KyoAni for new episodes. The studio on the other hand is very different from 2006 and incapable anymore of writing proper adaptions and finding decent directors ... end result Haruhi S2 looks like a rushed moe-blob 4koma playing in loop every week ... really sad :(

hai_san

2009-07-11, 13:01

Well anyone think that perhaps KyoAni will make the EP 8x times repeat?:p just to match the "endless eight" titel?

Arrnea

2009-07-11, 13:25

Well anyone think that perhaps KyoAni will make the EP 8x times repeat?:p just to match the "endless eight" titel?
The "Eight" in the title refers to the month of August (the 8th month), not to anything happening eight times.

Master Chibi

2009-07-11, 13:46

Well some of you were so insistent that the reason we didn't see much music in K-On was because the lack of budget, and the money going to s2 of this show instead.

Thanks for proving everyone wrong KyoAni~

Someone let me know when this arc ends, this is making the amount of time it took Namek to blow up in DBZ and the number of episodes it took for the hokage to die in Naruto look like a blink of an eye. At least they were actually ANIMATING SOMETHING DIFFERENT in each episode.

This has to be the first time a show following it's sources plot has managed to make filler look really good.

Go figure~

jonli

2009-07-11, 13:57

To preserve what little dignity I might have ... NO! I did not!

When Haruhi is abusing Mikuru, well that's another story altogether :p

I don't think so, actually it feels more rushed than anything else. If I may speculate, Kadokawa wanted to bring out the franchise, because of predicted recession, so they pushed KyoAni for new episodes. The studio on the other hand is very different from 2006 and incapable anymore of writing proper adaptions and finding decent directors ... end result Haruhi S2 looks like a rushed moe-blob 4koma playing in loop every week ... really sad :(

Well I don't know about the whole director leaving story, can anyone tell me?

But from what I can tell they've been planning Haruhi 2 since 3 years ago, with all the patience and planning they've put through the advertising campaign (which is the most viral marketing strategy in anime thus far) sort of proves that this is not a rushed job. I mean they waited 3 years, and aired BLR on July 7th, Haruhi-chan etc etc etc (god I must've repeated this like 50 times in 10 different threads).

If they're really trying to counter recession they're most probably going to gain profit in the easiest way possible. Which is to NOT drag Endless Eight (because they're actually re-animating each episode, they still cost money), and end it quickly and produce new content to increase the value of the DVDs in order to attract more sales. Right now it seems like Endless Eight is not a money milking marketing scheme, but truly an experimental method.

Although I haven't seen their recent Key adaptations (I'm assuming theyr'e good?), Haruhi-chan blew my mind. It was so well done, it was a fantastic adaptation, and so I still have faith in them. I actually disliked the first few episodes of Haruhi-chan, but they immediately changed the style and fixed the rest, impressive I think.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-11, 14:06

Well I don't know about the whole director leaving story, can anyone tell me?

The primary force behind S1, Yamakan, was fired from KyoAni after around 5 or so episodes of Lucky Star. Scuttlebutt has it that about half of the animators apparently quit in the intervening period between Lucky Star and the present day as well. They've been replaced since of course, but much of the expertise that went into S1, obviously, can't be called upon by the company anymore.

If they're really trying to counter recession they're most probably going to gain profit in the easiest way possible. Which is to NOT drag Endless Eight (because they're actually re-animating each episode, they still cost money), and end it quickly and produce new content to increase the value of the DVDs in order to attract more sales. Right now it seems like Endless Eight is not a money milking marketing scheme, but truly an experimental method.

Airtime and episodes are reserved in advance by the production committee, and the number of episodes are also decided beforehand by the sponsors. If Kadokawa ordered 6 episodes of Endless Eight, and paid for 6 episodes worth of air time, KyoAni will obviously have to fill that time slot with something.

Although I haven't seen their recent Key adaptations (I'm assuming theyr'e good?), Haruhi-chan blew my mind. It was so well done, it was a fantastic adaptation, and so I still have faith in them. I actually disliked the first few episodes of Haruhi-chan, but they immediately changed the style and fixed the rest, impressive I think.

Haruhi-chan? Well-done? Uhm, I'm sure that many people would like to contest that. KANON was excellent, quality-wise, while CLANNAD and CLANNAD ~ AS see-sawed in quality, particularly during the first few episodes of After Story (the leftover School Life portions).

At least they were actually ANIMATING SOMETHING DIFFERENT in each episode.

Which KyoAni is doing; although we're seeing Endless Eight, we're seeing different interpretations of Endless Eight every iteration, by different teams as well as different directors.

StRyKeR

2009-07-11, 14:06

I get it. This is the most epic troll ever.

jonli

2009-07-11, 14:32

The primary force behind S1, Yamakan, was fired from KyoAni after around 5 or so episodes of Lucky Star. Scuttlebutt has it that about half of the animators apparently quit in the intervening period between Lucky Star and the present day as well. They've been replaced since of course, but much of the expertise that went into S1, obviously, can't be called upon by the company anymore.

Airtime and episodes are reserved in advance by the production committee, and the number of episodes are also decided beforehand by the sponsors. If Kadokawa ordered 6 episodes of Endless Eight, and paid for 6 episodes worth of air time, KyoAni will obviously have to fill that time slot with something.

Haruhi-chan? Well-done? Uhm, I'm sure that many people would like to contest that. KANON was excellent, quality-wise, while CLANNAD and CLANNAD ~ AS see-sawed in quality, particularly during the first few episodes of After Story (the leftover School Life portions).

Which KyoAni is doing; although we're seeing Endless Eight, we're seeing different interpretations of Endless Eight every iteration, by different teams as well as different directors.

I thought Yamakan only directed around two episodes.

They're not just filling it with something. This isn't the same episode, and people need to realize it. It is newly animated, re-voiced, everything. They still do cost money to make, and they're obviously not going to be as popular compared to other episodes in terms of DVD sales. So why are they doing this if they're obviously not going gain as much profit? Are they dragging the franchise? You might argue yes, but I really doubt it.
1) They have plenty of content to animate from the series. Enough for a third and fourth season. They can also air them between 1 to 2 years. The Haruhi franchise is going to live for along time. They don't need to drag it like they do with Naruto, simply not needed.
2) It does seem like they're dragging but right at the SECOND new episode? It's obvious there is a reason to it. According to what I've read on Animesuki so far, and from what we've discussed. No body knows if 28 episodes is the truth. They can lie, and actually have 33, literally transforming the 6 E8 episodes into the equivalent of 1. With the marketing scheme they're going for they might actually pull a season 2 right after seaosn 1 rebraodcast ends. Many speculations.

Like I said they planned carefully.

What's wrong with Haruhi-chan? I thought it was super well done. I didn't realize fans didn't like it. If you're talking about the animation quality, it is a youtube free animation. I'm really well informed in the methods of animation (my major) and from what I can see, the budget is low but the methods they use to hide is genius.

Reckoner

2009-07-11, 14:37

2) It does seem like they're dragging but right at the SECOND new episode? It's obvious there is a reason to it. According to what I've read on Animesuki so far, and from what we've discussed. No body knows if 28 episodes is the truth. They can lie, and actually have 33, literally transforming the 6 E8 episodes into the equivalent of 1. With the marketing scheme they're going for they might actually pull a season 2 right after seaosn 1 rebraodcast ends. Many speculations.

There isn't a reason good enough to do this. It's not entertaining, it's not creative, and it comes off as a very greedy tactic by Kadokawa.

jonli

2009-07-11, 14:43

There isn't a reason good enough to do this. It's not entertaining, it's not creative, and it comes off as a very greedy tactic by Kadokawa.

A couple days ago I thought the same thing. I still agree actually.

If I was in charge I would never let something like this happen.

Like I've said already it's not a greedy tactic because they're obviously going to be at a loss here. This is just like saying Sony is greedy for selling Playstation 3 at such a high price, but in actuality they're selling each console at a loss. They're obviously doing this for an effect.

They're investing this into something, and wish that that something would be worthwhile. Whether or not it is is remain to be seen.

I raged, but I'm willing to wait and see what they do.

After all you must realize that what they're doing now is not the equivalent to what Naruto and Bleach are doing when they drag their arcs. What they're doing now is probably one of the most batshit insane thing you'll ever see in anime history. Now you're part of it, you can live through it and tell the tale to future generations. "God I was in Endless Eight back when Haruhi was airing" and then you can tell them if it was worth it. (probably....)

Sute443

2009-07-11, 14:56

As far as DVDs go I think a cool special feature, would be to create your own Endless Eight II by combining scenes from all the failed attempts minus obviously the first one since they didn't figure it out.

That might actually be brilliant in a way, but I'm not sure how many fans would actually want to watch even more versions of Endless Eight.

On a similar subject, I've said that I'm not watching any more of this broadcast's Endless Eight. Now I've decided that there is something better to for me to do: Say "Screw this, I'll make my own iteration of Endless Eight! With beer! And hookers! And bloodshed! Actually, forget the beer and hookers. Maybe."

What's wrong with Haruhi-chan? I thought it was super well done. I didn't realize fans didn't like it. If you're talking about the animation quality, it is a youtube free animation. I'm really well informed in the methods of animation (my major) and from what I can see, the budget is low but the methods they use to hide is genius.

There were people who didn't like Haruhi-chan? I thought everyone was pretty unanimous in at least appreciating it.

Malkuth

2009-07-11, 14:58

@jonli

You need a reason mate? How about incompetence, stupidity, overconfidence, ignorance, inexperience, hubris ... pick one ;)

jonli

2009-07-11, 15:02

@jonli

You need a reason mate? How about incompetence, stupidity, overconfidence, ignorance, inexperience, hubris ... pick one ;)

:confused::confused: Reason for what?

GMT

2009-07-11, 15:29

mokuseimaru

2009-07-11, 15:42

I think what they are doing with Endless Eight is in character for the show itself, if you consider, this idea of them breaking conventions. You have a time loop where they repeat the “boring” parts instead of the changes, abet in a slightly different manner. New twist on an old genre? At the same time, they throw the manga readers and anime watchers alike in a frenzy--they restore that sense of what will happen next--that lack of security to us? It creates a buzz that no publicity budget in the world could top. Like it or loathe it, people are talking about it and that’s a feat for a second season of anything.

Imagine a typical Japanese person browsing through a Kadokawa bookstore. Imagine this fellow sees The Rampage of Haruhi Suzumiya on one of the shelves and decides to peruse it. He looks at the table of contents and sees the title "Endless Eight" and turns to the corresponding page. However, instead of seeing text, he sees a small, wet-nap-like baggy taped to the page. Suddenly, a hole pops open in the bag, spraying his eyes with mace.

Now, would one expect this fellow to:

A) Say, "How unexpected! I'm buying this!"

B) Say, "I didn't really care for being maced. I think I'll try a different one"

C) Scream in pain and become extremely angry at Kadokawa for macing him.

panzerfan

2009-07-11, 15:44

Something just came to me about what KyoAni could've done to take this one step further.

Endless Eight could literally be a form of a greenscreen challenge for every single animation studio, be it 7 Arcs to Gonzo. Imagine if every one of these studios pump one exactly one (1) episode of Endless Eight, while only given the slight variation of choices that each recursion yields. I for one would like to see DEEN's version of it...

Midonin

2009-07-11, 15:46

Sign me up for Shaft's version.

Pirate

2009-07-11, 17:18

Well I have had enough :P You can keep this happy endless loop for yourself.

Sheba

2009-07-11, 17:28

Solafighter

2009-07-11, 17:58

Woaw, just watched episode 2 - 5.

:eyespin: :eyespin: :eyespin:

Ufa im glad, that i watched them in a row but i got the feeling, that this case is hopefully fixed by the next episode. :cool:

I at least hope so. xD

-Sho-

2009-07-11, 18:04

Damn , Yuki just end up this endless eight !!!

So , they will release 8 episodes for this arc ? and they need 35363th times to finally close this case ?

Oh maybe its my 56464th times that i write this comments ...

OverMaster

2009-07-11, 18:08

There were people who didn't like Haruhi-chan? I thought everyone was pretty unanimous in at least appreciating it.

I loved Haruhi-chan. It was as good as Adventures of the Mini Goddesses or even better.

dragon4dudes

2009-07-11, 18:46

npal

2009-07-11, 18:53

M.Marangio

2009-07-11, 19:04

Darkblaze

2009-07-11, 19:04

53,595 time.

Ikonomi

2009-07-11, 19:19

Since it's Yuki, I'd say it'll finish around the 65535th time.

Poor Yuki is a 16-bit humanoid interface...? :(

Master Chibi

2009-07-11, 19:23

Which KyoAni is doing; although we're seeing Endless Eight, we're seeing different interpretations of Endless Eight every iteration, by different teams as well as different directors.

Yeah, sorry, it's barely passable at this point.

I mean when I want something like that I'll walk into a high school art show or something of the sort, it's far, far, far, FAR outlived its novelty / 'useful' nature.

resoLv777

2009-07-11, 20:41

dragon4dudes

2009-07-11, 20:46

Here's a guess, it will serve as an indication to the next iteration of Kyon to do what ever it is he needs to do. Can't spoil it...

OkamiNoKaze

2009-07-11, 22:43

It seems to me each time, Kyon seems get closer and closer to the solution, The Deathnote version :heh: "I scoop a fish, and catch it" the ominous latin music would come during the "big reveal' scene, and possibly the failure scene, I'd like to see Haruhi done in Bleach style personally, or an episode done in Haruhi-chan style.

I still think this is the worlds longest running April Fools joke every, call Guiness.
I also think it's possible that on the DVDs it'll only have 3 parts to Endless 8 and there will be a special edition version with all the parts, for the completests and masocists. Though it is odd that they aren't numbering the episodes part 1,2, etc, also adding to the idea they are counted as one long episode

Well hope to hear you all's thoughts on my thoughts

mokuseimaru

2009-07-11, 23:11

I still think that this totally pwns any other cliffhanger I've seen in television.

I'm sure something significant will be revealed which and these episodes will make sense. Or not. But I don't enjoy the show any less than when I first started watching season 1.

Apparently the airplane/glider has some sort of significance.

If it has a significance, it is one completely invented by the animators.

This shouldn't be too much of a spoiler, since I've seen other mention this, but if anyone is expecting this to have some kind of earth-shattering conclusion, you will sorely disappointed.

It seems to me each time, Kyon seems get closer and closer to the solution, The Deathnote version :heh: "I scoop a fish, and catch it" the ominous latin music would come during the "big reveal' scene, and possibly the failure scene, I'd like to see Haruhi done in Bleach style personally, or an episode done in Haruhi-chan style.

Now that actually would be something worth watching, even if they did have the same storyline and dialogue. Maybe giving one a more shonen-feel, another a sort of film-noir treatment, and so on. At least then the imagery could have been different enough to be interesting. Though it would add something that was never there in the novels, which would upset a lot of people---though not nearly as much as this.

Proto

2009-07-11, 23:29

After watching the episode myself, it kind of impresses me how you can actually feel an increasing ambiance of dread and futility episode after episode. Despite the repeated lines, the repeated script, the emotion each episode conveys is clearly different in the degree of the emitted emotions. It is often said that every series is compunded by three elements. The plot, the characters and the environment. Many people have grown despaired after how both the plot and the characters remain absolutely static, but as a SOL and environment lover myself, this study of several episodes where the only moving point is the feeling of each episode itself has been quite a thrilling experience.

thirdlc

2009-07-11, 23:49

This time was done by the people of K-on, right? From the trade mark teeth.
Everyone in KyoAni did K-ON, so yes. :p

But back on topic though, hasn't anybody come to the conclusion that the K-On! style is just part of the slight variation gimmick? Next episode will probably return to a more familiar style.
It's more or less inevitable since they had done K-ON right till starting Haruhi. Especially in this episode, it may be one of the reasons that the animation director, Ueno, is a debased copy of Horiguchi. (Am I the only one that calls her that way?:heh:) I don't know whether Horiguchi affected Ueno or not. Meanwhile Nishiya admitted he had been affected by Horiguchi. What's more, the episode director Takao said she had felt further potential of facial expression acting in animation when she worked with Horiguchi at Clannad Tomoyo chapter. Horiguchi is very influential in KyoAni though there are many people don't like her own style very much.

That said, I've never seen Ueno animated so much like Horiguchi does. Kyon's stiff-looking shirt and its wrinkles drawn with hard lines from the first sequence looks to me exactly like Horiguchi's work. It misled me into believing the animation director was Horiguchi.

Ueno's characteristics in drawing are eyes and omitting details, which I think are influenced by Ishidate, an action-oriented animator, who had partnered in Clannad AS. These days, since she has partnered Takao, who demands details, she might get to draw them in the future.

I think the next episode would be Ishihara and Ikeda Kazumi, or Ishidate and Akitake, but who knows?

The primary force behind S1, Yamakan, was fired from KyoAni after around 5 or so episodes of Lucky Star. Scuttlebutt has it that about half of the animators apparently quit in the intervening period between Lucky Star and the present day as well. They've been replaced since of course, but much of the expertise that went into S1, obviously, can't be called upon by the company anymore.
Half of the animators? Be serious. AFAIK, those who followed Yamakan are Kadowaki, Yoshioka, Watanabe, Matsuo, Komatsu, and Takada. Even if there are more I don't know, it's not half of the animators at all.

Airtime and episodes are reserved in advance by the production committee, and the number of episodes are also decided beforehand by the sponsors. If Kadokawa ordered 6 episodes of Endless Eight, and paid for 6 episodes worth of air time, KyoAni will obviously have to fill that time slot with something.
In most cases, airtime gets reserved after the production is started. Episodes are decided at meetings at which producers, directors, and writer in chief attended. In this case, Haruhi, the author Tanigawa went to the meetings too. The repetition is perhaps his idea since Takemoto said Tanigawa gave many great ones at the meetings.

No body knows if 28 episodes is the truth.
The 28 episode run was officially announced on Comptiq July issue a month ago.

At last, about the clouds, Takao likes to show the sky and clouds, so It looks very meaningful, but actually it may not be.bwahaha