The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 7] [Archive]

monir

2009-07-23, 01:35

Welcome to the discussion thread for Suzumiya Haruhi (2009), Episode 07.

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rook_

2009-07-23, 01:48

So is this episode another repeat?

monir

2009-07-23, 01:54

We will know once it airs in the next few hours.

rook_

2009-07-23, 01:57

Oh it hasn't aired yet I see. One can only hope for the best!

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 01:58

That's... Well, that still half a day away.

SSJiffy

2009-07-23, 01:58

What time does it air again?

fish eric

2009-07-23, 01:59

is it possible to watch a live stream of the show?

Ithekro

2009-07-23, 02:08

Probably.

We shall see if September comes.

Daniel E.

2009-07-23, 02:36

If E8 doesn't end now, the chances of it lasting eight episodes will become quite realistic.

I somehow feel that it will end with this episode, though. :p

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 02:42

The problem now though, is people will be EXPECTING it to end later. Which is a bad thing to do, since if Endless Eight doesn't end tonight, many people will, quite frankly, be angry. And not just angry, we're talking Khorne-worshipping, chain-axe toting, frothing at the mouth, screaming and ululating RAGE.

Will many posters and viewers join Kharne in screaming "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!" later? We'll see.

I just thought of a possible scenario however.

It is possible that KyoAni might skip showing the conclusion of Endless Eight and immediately proceed to something else next. I can only imagine the rage that will follow.

All together now...

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!

panzerfan

2009-07-23, 02:43

fish eric

2009-07-23, 02:52

The problem now though, is people will be EXPECTING it to end later. Which is a bad thing to do, since if Endless Eight doesn't end tonight, many people will, quite frankly, be angry. And not just angry, we're talking Khorne-worshipping, chain-axe toting, frothing at the mouth, screaming and ululating RAGE.

Will many posters and viewers join Kharne in screaming "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!" later? We'll see.

All together now...

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!

Yea, but will they still watch next week and the week after that? hehe You bet they will.

I just thought of a possible scenario however.

It is possible that KyoAni might skip showing the conclusion of Endless Eight and immediately proceed to something else next. I can only imagine the rage that will follow.

I proposed the exact thing in the episode thread a couple weeks ago. I think it would be kinda funny to do that.

M.Marangio

2009-07-23, 03:02

What time does it air again?
24:40 local time at Sun TV and 25:30 at Teletama.

gigaloki

2009-07-23, 03:03

i hope endless eight ends now T_T but i guess it'll end after the eighth endless eight episode

ac195

2009-07-23, 03:05

I just thought of a possible scenario however.

It is possible that KyoAni might skip showing the conclusion of Endless Eight and immediately proceed to something else next. I can only imagine the rage that will follow.

I would die laughing if the next episode started off like this...

"Nani ka ga okashii... Nan to naku so na kigashitta... Nan te ne!!!" ...

... and then a new episode started with only some vague reference to the E8 resolution.

Dr. Casey

2009-07-23, 03:07

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!

Not that I know if there's even anything to be mad about, I just think it's a cool quote. Anyway, here's to the next suspenseful seven hours.

Jintor

2009-07-23, 03:08

I feel like I've entered an Endless Recursion of time!

panzerfan

2009-07-23, 03:13

I would die laughing if the next episode started off like this...

"Nani ka ga okashii... Nan to naku so na kigashitta... Nan te ne!!!" ...

... and then a new episode started with only some vague reference to the E8 resolution.

I'd word it then as:
キョン子：「何かが可笑しい... 何となくそんな気がした...何てね～」

ac195

2009-07-23, 03:24

I'd word it then as:
キョン子：「何かが可笑しい... 何となくそんな気がした...何てね～」

Meh, kanji is too confusing :heh:

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-23, 03:31

Don't expect it to end this week, guys.

Even if it does, it's good to expect the worst.

Anyway, if this loop still manages to be interesting, bring it on. :heh:

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 03:34

Meh, kanji is too confusing :heh:

It's a joke: it's not Kyon who's actually doing the talking, but Kyonko. Wouldn't THAT be a hilarious way to resolve things? For the loop to end, but everyone in their opposite genders.

ac195

2009-07-23, 03:59

It's a joke: it's not Kyon who's actually doing the talking, but Kyonko. Wouldn't THAT be a hilarious way to resolve things? For the loop to end, but everyone in their opposite genders.

Didn't see the 子... all I saw was the 可笑しい in bold :heh:

I also don't see what's so great about Kyonko and all the genderbending... seriously, why would you want to turn all that cheesecake into a sausage fest... I for one don't want to get Kyon in bed... he's more like a good friend (fun to talk to... but anything else is... yeah....)

Kaioshin Sama

2009-07-23, 04:57

I just thought of a possible scenario however.

It is possible that KyoAni might skip showing the conclusion of Endless Eight and immediately proceed to something else next. I can only imagine the rage that will follow.

In my experience you finish what you start as a matter of principle so yeah I would expect a fair bit of rage if that happened.

typhonsentra

2009-07-23, 05:34

Mark my words, this will be the end for sure. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-23, 06:07

Mark my words, this will be the end for sure. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

This is either sarcasm or naivete. Probably the former.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 06:40

Mark my words, this will be the end for sure. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

It's overused, but still apt.

HOPE IS THE FIRST STEP ON THE ROAD TO DISAPPOINTMENT.

This is either sarcasm or naivete. Probably the former.

In the time of Insanity, the Madman is King.

panzerfan

2009-07-23, 06:53

@Myssa Rei: If you played Elder scrolls... that'd be the madgod, Lord Sheogorath.

SaraFilipa

2009-07-23, 07:30

I don't know why, but I don't think it'll end today...:heh:

spawnofthejudge

2009-07-23, 07:33

Does anybody think it'll end next week (number seven?) It seems people either think it'll end in the next few hours, or after the end of the month.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 07:37

Does anybody think it'll end next week (number seven?) It seems people either think it'll end in the next few hours, or after the end of the month.

No one knows at this point. Which is why I advise NOT to expect anything. Please?

spawnofthejudge

2009-07-23, 08:00

No one knows at this point.Of course not. But I've not heard a single guess of seven eights. ;)

I personally will simply WAFO.

Kogetsu Shirogane

2009-07-23, 08:16

Whatever happens, I'm expecting another great Koizumi scene out of it(first had the still shot of his FABULOUS bug-catching technique, third had his epic dive, fifth had the sentai-esque watch pose)... though, given the apparent pattern, I'm probably going to end up disappointed. :heh:

ac195

2009-07-23, 08:21

Miyuki-ism

2009-07-23, 08:28

If this does actually last 8 episodes don't act surprised, you saw it coming by now. XD

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 08:37

oh it hasn't aired yet i see. One can only hope for the best!

i somehow feel that it will end with this episode, though. :p

mark my words, this will be the end for sure. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

CRAZY EDDIE! You are all crazy eddie!

Don't you realize that your deranged optimism only makes the cycles worse?

phizzy

2009-07-23, 08:56

I'm fairly certain that it either is or is not going to end today.

Kogetsu Shirogane

2009-07-23, 08:58

You forgot about his glorious speedo....

Fair enough. I suppose I should also include the bowling shot in the second. :heh:

spawnofthejudge

2009-07-23, 08:58

I'm fairly certain that it either is or is not going to end today.To better play with our heads... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakeAThirdOption)

Kogetsu Shirogane

2009-07-23, 08:59

I've already suggested that they could just air something else in place of another Endless Eight. :heh:

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 09:06

I'm fairly certain that it either is or is not going to end today.
Wrong. Endless 8 never ends. The Cycles are eternal. You cannot stop them. Our optimism shall grow at an exponential rate unchecked. Until it finally reaches a critical mass right before the zero hour. Then it will collapse into an orgy of violence and devastation. The death rate will be close to 95%. But we will rebuild. And we will again flourish. But once the next episode comes to air we will again let our optimism grow boundlessly and unchecked, only to again trigger another collapse when we are disappointed.

This cycle shall continue for 10,000 years. Earth shall be rendered a barren waste and the survivors will move to space. But the cycles will continue even there. Soon the space civilization will annihilate itself as well. Evolution will begin to take hold at this time. We will adopt asymmetrical features to aid our survival in the cold dark reaches of space, where no new episodes of Haruhi may warm us. We will evolve into the perfect mass media viewers. Able to enjoy our episodes despite the fact that they never go anywhere. Content to view the same episode over and over again yet yearning for something new in perpetual insanity.

Crazy Eddie will think something may change. Crazy Eddie will think we can do something about. But all Crazy Eddie will accomplish is hastening the collapse for that cycle.

TadloS

2009-07-23, 09:15

I'm fairly certain that it either is or is not going to end today.

Yep, it's definitely will end today.

quigonkenny

2009-07-23, 09:24

I think I might have figured out their reasoning behind doing ∞8 this way.

**some time ago at Kadokawa Shoten, orbiting Endor**

KyoAni Representative: What...is thy bidding, my master...

President of Kadokawa Shoten: I wish for you to animate more Haruhi episodes. But don't get to Disappearance yet. I have something...special...planned for those otaku rebels in a later season. But make sure you animate Sigh. I love Sigh...

KyoAni: Yes, my master... However... Not everyone shares your--I mean our opinion on Sigh. We may not be able to satisfy our sponsors with a season built around it, and fund the completion of this battle station.

Kadokawa: This is true... *loads up the Haruhi chronology on B-T* Hmmm... Yes... Good...good... I have an idea, my servant...one that will have fans begging for an adaptation of Sigh... *cackling laughter*

KyoAni: Yes...my master...

**dun dun dun dun-de-dun DUN-DE-DUUUUNNNN...*

SidVicious

2009-07-23, 09:30

More Yuki is always nice. :D

FlashFumo

2009-07-23, 09:57

I'm cautiously optimistic about Endless Eight ending this week.

Sigh... :upset:

Jintor

2009-07-23, 10:05

What if **** teamed up with ***** to **** in a box? Would you be 'cautiously optimistic' then, HUH?!? :3

Dakota

2009-07-23, 10:15

What if **** teamed up with ***** to **** in a box? Would you be 'cautiously optimistic' then, HUH?!? :3

Replacing those asterisks with inappropriate words amuses me.

SgtHydra

2009-07-23, 10:22

This longtime lurker would like to say:

IT WILL NEVER EVER END!!!

Didn't end last week, or the week before last, or the week before that week, etc.

Jez, you'd think these guys would take a hint...

Water

2009-07-23, 10:22

18 more min to go :heh:

We shall see if the 6-episode E8 hypothesis is correct.

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 10:24

Replacing those asterisks with inappropriate words amuses me.
Or how about you replace them with appropriate words? People connotate censorship so much with obscenity that when we hear the two that's what we assume is being said under the beep. It's quite fascinating.

Peanutbutter003

2009-07-23, 10:29

Will there be more rage this week?

Well, I'll rage if this still doesn't end, after all the effort I expended just to get my computer back and running just in time for this. ;)

SgtHydra

2009-07-23, 10:35

I registered just to rage.

Normally, I'm fine in the shadows, watching and listening.

But things have gone too far.

M.Marangio

2009-07-23, 10:42

And so episode 17 begins...
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/M_Marangio/Haruhi/th_episode17.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/M_Marangio/Haruhi/?action=view&current=episode17.jpg)

TakariCritic

2009-07-23, 10:46

Would someone fluent in moonrunes please direct us towards the 2ch link?

TadloS

2009-07-23, 10:46

When episode is going to air?

Tokkan

2009-07-23, 10:50

Would someone fluent in moonrunes please direct us towards the 2ch link?

I will if you say pretty please with magical gumdrops on top served in a large sundae for 2.

... No, I will be eating the whole entire large sundae for 2.

Dakota

2009-07-23, 10:50

When episode is going to air?

Right now.

TakariCritic

2009-07-23, 10:53

Pretty please with magical gumdrops on top served in a large sundae for 2!

wait, nevermind, got it right here: http://dec.2chan.net/24/res/3952281.htm

Tokkan

2009-07-23, 10:55

Pretty please with magical gumdrops on top served in a large sundae for 2!

http://dec.2chan.net/24/res/3952281.htm

There you go.

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 10:56

It appears that Kyon is all Gangsta again.

Haruhi's swim suit is as usual.

And the girls all came out of the same changing room...hooo yah.

Water

2009-07-23, 10:58

Pretty please with magical gumdrops on top served in a large sundae for 2!

wait, nevermind, got it right here: http://dec.2chan.net/24/res/3952281.htm

Looks like there's plenty of time left in the episode for the arc to end.

SgtHydra

2009-07-23, 10:58

Has it looped yet?

Tokkan

2009-07-23, 11:03

Loop number 15524, it seems.

typhonsentra

2009-07-23, 11:04

I keep looking at the pictures holding my breath, the big scene is coming up.... now or never KyoAni.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 11:06

... Wow. Oh well.

Yay Kyon. *rolls eyes*

This 2ch post seems to sum up the coming reactions from posters:

KADOKAWAは死ね！！！！！！！
KADOKAWAは死んでしまえ！！！！！！！！

typhonsentra

2009-07-23, 11:07

god..... Dammit!!!!!!!!!!

Water

2009-07-23, 11:07

And it ends, Not! =/

bladeofdarkness

2009-07-23, 11:07

your kidding :upset:

Tokkan

2009-07-23, 11:08

It will end when we get to loop 15555. Mark my words.

typhonsentra

2009-07-23, 11:10

This guarantees the loop won't end until at bare minumum the loop after this one (In other words, yes they're looping for 8 full episodes of this shit, no need to tune in next week at all), making this single short story the single longest story in the series so far.

Water

2009-07-23, 11:11

LOL, prepare for another round of rage. :heh:

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 11:12

bladeofdarkness

2009-07-23, 11:13

fuck that
now i want them to make 13 eps of it
make the entire season consist of nothing BUT endless eight
anything short of that is a waste of the season (since it means only 5 eps left)
if your going to do something crazy, just go for broke

TakariCritic

2009-07-23, 11:13

That's it.

That's it! I'm going to have a fundraiser to hire a hitman for whoever the hell's responsible for this. 6+ episodes is ridiculous. Just plain ridiculous. I am going to destroy their dvds before they can even leave the factory, prevent even the retail stores from being able to sell them.

bladeofdarkness

2009-07-23, 11:14

Tempester

2009-07-23, 11:14

This emotion... is hard to describe in words:

I feel like laughing like an evil villain and sipping some champagne, but I feel betrayed and in despair, yet I feel I just witnessed an act of godly power bestowed upon me, and I also feel like a part of me has died inside.

I guess the best word to describe it would be ambivalence.

Saymon

2009-07-23, 11:15

no need to destroy dvds that wont sell

typhonsentra

2009-07-23, 11:16

My biggest problem with this now is that it confirms they'll be cutting material from Sighs (Which regardless of what people here say, is an interesting story) in order to make room for an extra episode of E8, and on top of that we no longer get an anime-original episode either...... yeah. E8 not only annoyed everyone, they're actually fucking up the rest of the schedule just to make room for more of this "Prank". Fuck that.

FlashFumo

2009-07-23, 11:17

Oh, for the love of...

Should I even bother waiting for subs?

TakariCritic

2009-07-23, 11:17

no need to destroy dvds that wont sell

that's the thing, they WILL sell. They won't be nearly as much, but no matter what, a few people will still want to buy them. I'm going to ensure they can't sell a single one.

Then, I am going to go to their sponsors, and get them to pull out funding. I am going to bankrupt Kadokawa. Run it into the ground harder than they're running Haruhi down.

Toffeerollx

2009-07-23, 11:18

I haven't even watched this ep or the previous ep because I cbf :heh: I just know I don't have to be bothered to watch it by looking at these posts.

It's quite irritating

ac195

2009-07-23, 11:18

Saymon

2009-07-23, 11:19

I'll watch the subs when E8 ends.
No need for subs this episode

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 11:20

Tempester

2009-07-23, 11:22

Next week's episode airs in the very early morning of August 1. Could that signify anything?

panzerfan

2009-07-23, 11:23

Some of the Toshiakis are angry...
Like this line.
京アニのアニメーターの家族が人質に取られてるんだよ

as well as what Myssa Rei mentioned before.

chikorita157

2009-07-23, 11:23

Yes, I guess this is what I expect after looking that 2chan... it's going to repeat again....

The series have truly jumped the shark now and yes, Haruhi Second Season is a epic fail which is sad because I really wanted to be good, but Kadokawa had to blew it...

Kadokawa... only repeating Endless Eight to milk the cash cow... unless the ending lies in the next episode... but I highly doubt it now... If repeat it for the 6 episode, why not repeat it for the rest of the season?

typhonsentra

2009-07-23, 11:24

They have 5 episodes... those could all be part of Sighs...

That's what I said. They're cutting Sighs down to 5 episodes (Melancholy was 6 episodes) when it's a full book. It's a little bit shorter than Melancholy but not by a whole episode's worth.

Water

2009-07-23, 11:24

Next week's episode airs in the very early morning of August 1. Could that signify anything?

Well, they could surprise us by actually ending the loop in the next episode. Everyone had been expecting 2, 4, 6, and now 8 episodes of E8.

7 just seems like an oddball, and that rhymes with Kadokawa.

bladeofdarkness

2009-07-23, 11:25

I believed I called this all you Crazy Eddies. We only have 2 possibilities at this point.

1:Kyoani and Kadokawa have gone insane.
2:They don't plan to air anymore episodes from Season 1 anymore and will be airing nothing but S2 episodes. That'd give them time to make more episodes.

option 2 makes not sense
they have to remake the eps over and over again anyway
they dont have TIME to make more eps
and its not the way anime production works

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 11:25

That's what I said. They're cutting Sighs down to 5 episodes (Melancholy was 6 episodes) when it's a full book. It's a little bit shorter than Melancholy but not by a whole episode's worth.
I think the fact that the season will only have Sigh's in it qualifies as failure in most peoples minds.

option 2 makes not sense
they have to remake the eps over and over again anyway
they dont have TIME to make more eps
and its not the way anime production works
Perhaps. If that is the case Kadokawa and Kyoani are REALLY insane. Because a Seaon that's comprised over half of endless 8 isn't going to sell anywhere near as well as the precious season did.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 11:25

duckroll

2009-07-23, 11:25

Next week's episode airs in the very early morning of August 1. Could that signify anything?

No it doesn't. Depending on how you count days, it either airs late night on the 30th, or early morning on the 31st.

Kogetsu Shirogane

2009-07-23, 11:26

Haruhi Second Season is a epic fail

... What second season?

Reckoner

2009-07-23, 11:28

Another week that I will skip. Thanks Kadokawa, you guys are so creative. I'm realy feeling like Yuki now, and I see how this is artistic genius by you and KyoAni. You guys are so amazing.

Sute443

2009-07-23, 11:28

The thing is, while I'm not angry (funny how that works out when you don't expect anything), the sponsors have to be quite blind NOT to see the anger boiling up from watchers on both sides of the Pacific.

Early on there was a rumor that the sponsors were so angry that Kadokawa offered one of the people responsible to them as a sacrifice (fired him). Was there ever any confirmation of this rumor?

ac195

2009-07-23, 11:29

... What second season?

Indeed, this is just a re-airing.

spawnofthejudge

2009-07-23, 11:29

Well, they could surprise us by actually ending the loop in the next episode. Everyone had been expecting 2, 4, 6, and now 8 episodes of E8.

7 just seems like an oddball, and that rhymes with Kadokawa.*whistles innocently*

... What second season?You mean that thing they canceled? Stupid re-airing getting everyone's hopes up...

Peanutbutter003

2009-07-23, 11:29

Looks like this is really the first Endless Eight I'll skip watching live.

*Sigh*

relentlessflame

2009-07-23, 11:30

The thing is, while I'm not angry (funny how that works out when you don't expect anything), the sponsors have to be quite blind NOT to see the anger boiling up from watchers on both sides of the Pacific.But the sponsors are Kadokawa and Lantis, who are also on the production committee. Why would they be mad at themselves? They're the ones paying for the airtime on the TV stations, so why would the TV stations care? In the end, they just bought a lot of airtime to play filler episodes rather than continuing the story... for some reason. They've done worse -- Kadokawa broadcasted Shuffle! Memories, which was 12 episodes of edited recap (for a 24-episode show), as a marketing effort to promote a single OVA episode. They also released all those re-cap episodes on DVD, but they weren't intented to be big-sellers anyway. In the end, it just means "the second season you're looking for is in another castle" or something. :heh:

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 11:30

The thing is, while I'm not angry (funny how that works out when you don't expect anything), the sponsors have to be quite blind NOT to see the anger boiling up from watchers on both sides of the Pacific.
I don't think this will actually hurt the sponsors. I don't believe they get any money from the DVD sales. I think their involvement goes as far as the broadcast station. In terms of broadcast, this entire endless 8 tom foolery is probably great for them, since it generates drama and pulls viewers in. No, I don't think the sponsors are gonna feel reprecussions from this.

However as far as I understand it, Kyoani don't make money off broadcasting their show. They make money selling DVD's. This entire marketing strategy goes directly against a strategy of selling DVD's, since over half the product you need to sell is something that the viewers may not all be willing to buy.

chikorita157

2009-07-23, 11:32

... What second season?
...oh yes, because Kadokawa canceled second season...

It's the re-airing of Haruhi that people got their hopes up, but got their hopes crushed by the pile of epic fail called "Endless Eight." and we know how everyone feels...

Takamura Mamoru

2009-07-23, 11:32

From the screenshots I saw, the animation looks pretty good this episode.

Cai Calamigarde

2009-07-23, 11:32

two words of advice for you, Kyoani (or Kadokawa):

"f*** ***"

spawnofthejudge

2009-07-23, 11:34

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 11:36

It still doesn't make any sense at this point though. Saying that Kadokawa isn't aware of the ill will this is causing... It's like... I suppose a merchant selling a governor a gun, then telling the governor to shoot himself in the foot, THEN use the goodwill the governor has with his constituents to claim that the wound caused wasn't painful, expecting the said constituents to buy guns from the merchant so they can shoot themselves in the foot as well.

The merchant in this case is Kadokawa, while the governor is KyoAni.

bladeofdarkness

2009-07-23, 11:37

all i know is that if the last eps of this season (how ever few might be left) dont cure at least one type of cancer EACH (its kyoani, they still might be able to pull it off)
then this season has offcially became the biggest flop in years

Arrnea

2009-07-23, 11:38

From the screenshots I saw, the animation looks pretty good this episode.
It is. I'm watching it now. Animation looks awesome. Possibly the best we've seen so far in the new episodes.

Dr. Casey

2009-07-23, 11:39

*sigh*

That rumor really had my hopes raised, too. I guess I'll refrain from voting a 1 until watching the episode, but God damn it anyway.

Conan-san

2009-07-23, 11:39

Question.

Kadokawa's the producer and KyoAni's the studio. Cool so far. But who gets money from the DVDs?

If there's a God in this world, no one, as there will be no money to distribute from this mess.

Solachinx

2009-07-23, 11:40

I think the fact that the season will only have Sigh's in it qualifies as failure in most peoples minds.

I think most fans would take Sigh over E8 anyday, now.

Kogetsu Shirogane

2009-07-23, 11:40

You can't vote anyway, the poll's closed. :heh:

relentlessflame

2009-07-23, 11:40

However as far as I understand it, Kyoani don't make money off broadcasting their show. They make money selling DVD's. This entire marketing strategy goes directly against a strategy of selling DVD's, since over half the product you need to sell is something that the viewers may not all be willing to buy.They also make their money off of CDs and all sorts of other merchandise. I mean, let's not over-think this. Let's say they up and decide not to sell these episodes on DVD at all -- would it be any more or less crazy? They made enough money on the first season that they can afford to blow away money if they feel like it. The question is really whether people will be back when the actual second season airs.

Question.

Kadokawa's the producer and KyoAni's the studio. Cool so far. But who gets money from the DVDs? Both of them through some sort of contract agreement? Just Kadokawa, who paid KyoAni to animate what they wanted them to animate? Just KyoAni, who has to pay Kadokawa for advertising/getting the word out? And most importantly, which one's in charge of deciding what to animate?Kadokawa is also the publisher, the distributor, and the rights-holder, so the ball is squarely in their court. I'm sure that the animation production team has some say, but ultimately the buck stops with Kadokawa. No matter whose idea it was, they're the ones paying the bill and taking the risk. Kyoto Animation can walk away from this and still have been paid for their time and effort. I suppose the only "loss" is any damage to their reputation that results, if any.

Daniel E.

2009-07-23, 11:41

CRAZY EDDIE! You are all crazy eddie!

Don't you realize that your deranged optimism only makes the cycles worse?

But it's kinda fun trying to guess when it's going to end.............. Or so I keep telling myself. :meh:

Time to start believing in the 8 episode theory! :eyespin: :heh: :eyespin: :heh: :eyespin:

Sho-tan

2009-07-23, 11:42

Mikuru's Yukata has goldfish on it... I think. At least, that's what it looks like.

Dr. Casey

2009-07-23, 11:42

You can't vote anyway, the poll's closed. :heh:

Oh yeah. :heh:

panzerfan

2009-07-23, 11:43

There's also the August 31st theory too.

At any rate, some have already called it a moment that takes everyone to Evangelion.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4222/snapshot20090723094358.jpg (http://img199.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20090723094358.jpg)

spawnofthejudge

2009-07-23, 11:44

Kadokawa is also the publisher, the distributor, and the rights-holder, so the ball is squarely in their court. I'm sure that the animation production team has some say, but ultimately the buck stops with Kadokawa. No matter whose idea it was, they're the ones paying the bill and taking the risk. Kyoto Animation can walk away from this and still have been paid for their time and effort.Good; I'm gonna paint the problem on Kadokawa and continue to fanboy over not let my admiration for KyoAni drop.

SealkidHaruhiism

2009-07-23, 11:44

...oh yes, because Kadokawa canceled second season...

It's the re-airing of Haruhi that people got their hopes up, but got their hopes crushed by the pile of epic fail called "Endless Eight." and we know how everyone feels...

If its canceled, why did they advertise Disappearances a lot?

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 11:45

At any rate, some have already called it a moment that takes everyone to Evangelion.

I was part of the first generation of EVA fans, darn it, I still REMEMBER the arguments then. Ye Gods... That was amazing and at the same time horrifying, and I hope I don't see a repeat with Haruhi.

sirn

2009-07-23, 11:45

Kadokawa's the producer and KyoAni's the studio. Cool so far. But who gets money from the DVDs? Both of them through some sort of contract agreement? Just Kadokawa, who paid KyoAni to animate what they wanted them to animate? Just KyoAni, who has to pay Kadokawa for advertising/getting the word out? And most importantly, which one's in charge of deciding what to animate?

Most company that's in the "production committee" will get money from the DVDs. They're usually credited as "Production" (製作) and hold a copyright to the series which I'm sure KyoAni is one of them. ("SOS-dan" in case of Haruhi.) The person responsible for deciding which to animate is probably most of the main production staffs (Planner, Director, Producer and Writers.)

Dakota

2009-07-23, 11:45

If its canceled, why did they advertise Disappearances a lot?

They hate us. :(

Also, ∞8 PERFECT TEN amirite

Conan-san

2009-07-23, 11:48

I've got your 'effing Rating right here.
I hereby, upon the power invested in me by the OATH OF COURAGE, brandish my keyboard and bistow upon this "Season" of Haruhi the rating of
ODIN
Hence forth, let this abomnimation upon animation be cast into the pits of the underworld where it will wallow in it's own wasted potential and scream for the end as the underworld's ungodly master, the Nish looks over with his crack staned mouth and laughs gleefuly at the pain that is being done untowords this unholy creature of celluriod.

TJR

2009-07-23, 11:49

KyoAni is a member of SOS-dan Production Committee, so they had some say in what was to be animated. They also share the profits.

Kadokawa might have the loudest voice, but as Yamakan suggests, it's still collaborative work. It isn't like they were just paying the studio to follow orders.

Archaic

2009-07-23, 11:50

Damnit, I had a feeling watching this stream right now that it'd be a repeat again, since Mikuru's kimono wasn't as per the novel chapter description, as expected for the finisher. Disappointed to find reading this that my fears were well founded.

dkellis

2009-07-23, 11:51

It isn't like they were just paying the studio to follow orders.

I always had the impression that this was the effective definition of a job.

panzerfan

2009-07-23, 11:52

Ironic for this to have been rated an ODIN by someone that cites from Cruel Angel's Thesis. This irony is shared by many though.

At any rate, I actually feel that Kadokawa and KyoAni are all well prepared for any physical violence if it ever comes down to it... will emotional NEET find themselves in front of waiting police officers as they carry out mindless acts driven by rage? The possibility exists.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 11:52

I'm kind of wondering if there's a secret kabal of Tzeentch (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tzeentch)worshippers in KADOKAWA's upper management.

Though, the emotion they're forcing upon people seems like a recruitment campaign for the World Eaters (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/World_Eaters) and Khorne (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khorne).

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD and SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE indeed.

You gonna make that bigger and bolder and redder for every successive episode's nerdrage?

In 40k, there's no such thing as too little. If anything, the setting is built on over-the-top concepts, and I feel that it kind of fits with the sort of emotions engendered by Endless Eight.

spawnofthejudge

2009-07-23, 11:54

Though, the emotion they're forcing upon people seems like a recruitment campaign for the World Eaters and Khorne. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD and SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE indeed.You gonna make that bigger and bolder and redder for every successive episode's nerdrage?

Conan-san

2009-07-23, 11:56

Ironic for this to have been rated an ODIN by someone that cites from Cruel Angel's Thesis. This irony is shared by many though. oddly enough, that has more to do with the avitar than Eva. But my rating stands, damnit.

Sho-tan

2009-07-23, 11:56

Well, it's still not over.

dkellis

2009-07-23, 11:57

At any rate, I actually feel that Kadokawa and KyoAni are all well prepared for any physical violence if it ever comes down to it... will emotional NEET find themselves in front of waiting police officers as they carry out mindless acts driven by rage? The possibility exists.

For all the threats of physical violence spoken by fans, I have to think that if someone actually does carry out their threat (or attempt to), all that will be accomplished is yet more reports on "those dangerous anime fans".

It's not productive, is what I'm saying. And after stuff like this (http://www.destructoid.com/teen-threatens-to-hijack-plane-while-playing-wow-139788.phtml), it's probably best to lay off on the threats in the first place.

Arrnea

2009-07-23, 12:00

Kyon-kun, shinde~

Baka ja nai?

Still gets a 7/10 though. Animation was swell.

CrowKenobi

2009-07-23, 12:00

So....... eight eps or jump to Sighs... ??

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/jin0014/kyon02021mv.gif
So.Many.Uses. :p

Animexcel

2009-07-23, 12:01

I had a dream last night that it ended. Kyon screamed Haruhi's name and ran after her, and they started making out in the cafe.

Water

2009-07-23, 12:01

The rage within me has vanished.

I know I will continue to wait for the next episode, even though E8 will probably not end again.

Ah, the tranquility. It soothes, it calms.

I think I have attained Nirvana :heh:

rapidfire

2009-07-23, 12:01

I give up.
Haruhi season 2 is epic fail.

Heatth

2009-07-23, 12:02

I am shocked that the begger arc of all Haruhi seasons are probably going to be this one.

ac195

2009-07-23, 12:02

At this point, I have no idea how anyone can be mad... just go with the flow... there's pretty much nothing you can do. All you can really do is sit back and watch...

Arrnea

2009-07-23, 12:03

I give up.
Haruhi season 2 is epic fail.
Except this isn't season 2. :p

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 12:03

I give up.
Haruhi season 2 is epic fail.

This isn't a second season, but a 'Re-Airing' of S1 with extra content. You were never around for Gainax's endless EVA editions eh? :P

CrowKenobi

2009-07-23, 12:03

I give up.
Haruhi season 2 is epic fail.But this is not season 2... :)

EDIT: beaten to the punch! :p ...twice! :heh:

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 12:05

The Blood God (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khorne) will be most pleased, I think. More reason for me to be worried, flag-waving Imperial that I am.

panzerfan

2009-07-23, 12:07

OOO... this mock comment comes from Komica:

直航京都機票大特賣,隨票附送玻璃瓶,汽油及砂糖各若干,並有一小時雞尾酒制作教學講座.
有意請電:911-911-91111

Fire sale for direct flight to Kyoto, free glass bottle onboard, with gasoline and sugar, along with an 1 hour (Molotov's) Cocktail DIY session. Phone:911-911-91111 for details.

@BunnyCupCakes: I guess you have become Nagato and Rika too...

Stardust Romance

2009-07-23, 12:07

I had a dream last night that it ended. Kyon screamed Haruhi's name and ran after her, and they started making out in the cafe.

lol
I had a couple dreams too of Endless 8 ending. But when you wake up and reality bites you in the butt, it really sucks :(

And I will not rage today.
It's pointless.

Game8910

2009-07-23, 12:08

its so painful im actually laughing now

Tokkan

2009-07-23, 12:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_LZOfuC7qs

This video sums up my thoughts.

FatalMemory

2009-07-23, 12:11

Notto Dissu....meh you know the rest.

spawnofthejudge

2009-07-23, 12:12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_LZOfuC7qs

This video sums up my thoughts.I always thought that video was brilliant.

Heminga13

2009-07-23, 12:17

12/10 KyoAni, you folks are truly gods among men.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 12:17

spawnofthejudge: I dunno, the Kirby music (used for other videos before that one) always cracks me up for some reason.

Hmm, many people seem to be... just reading, instead of knee-jerk reaction posting. It's all good and well people are calm this time around, but it could only portent much more fiery, shall we say, exclamations later on.

spawnofthejudge

2009-07-23, 12:19

spawnofthejudge: I dunno, the Kirby music (used for other videos before that one) always cracks me up for some reason.How does that not make it better? To laugh at the absurdity?

Toonleap

2009-07-23, 12:20

There are not enough words to describe my frustration today...

http://www.cartoonleap.com/2009/07/23/haruhi-second-season-ep-17-god-not-again/

Izayuukan

2009-07-23, 12:22

Is the poll going to be opened? Or is it kind of pointless?

otacu

2009-07-23, 12:24

From the screenshots I saw, the animation looks pretty good this episode.
Well... that's awesome am i right?
Kyoani should be proud of its work :D

Good; I'm gonna paint the problem on Kadokawa and continue to fanboy over not let my admiration for KyoAni drop.
That's exactly the point and the funniest thing in the whole mess. How fanboys (not just the enraged fans) react.

Season 1 random episode order
"Oh wow this is genius. Kyoani is amazing to have done this"

Season 2 endless eight
"Hey! It's not Kyoani's fault at all! Hate Kadokawa! It's obviously their fault!"
:eyespin:
There is just no way Kyoani could be less than stellar in their mind. Well that's the definition of fanboy after all.
:cool:

I'm really curious to see the DVD sales of this whole failure :heh: And not because i expect awful sales... no! Mark my word: the dvds will sell fine... and that will be the most hilarious thing in years.:heh:

relentlessflame

2009-07-23, 12:25

Hmm, many people seem to be... just reading, instead of knee-jerk reaction posting. It's all good and well people are calm this time around, but it could only portent much more fiery, shall we say, exclamations later on.Let's hope not. The rage was petty and pointless to begin with, and has always been way over-blown. Maybe it's one of those "stages of grief" type things where it just takes some time to accept that all the rage in the world isn't going to change anything.

And incidentally, quasi-related, people who joke about death threats are cruising for a ban. It's not funny in any way shape or form, and is completely inappropriate.

That's exactly the point and the funniest thing in the whole mess. How fanboys (not just the enraged fans) react.

Season 1 random episode order
"Oh wow this is genius. Kyoani is amazing to have done this"

Season 2 endless eight
"Hey! It's not Kyoani's fault at all! Hate Kadokawa! It's obviously their fault!"
:eyespin:
There is just no way Kyoani could be less than stellar in their mind. Well that's the definition of fanboy after all.
:cool:Well, fanboy-ism aside, there is some logic to it. Episode airing order is more of a directorial decision (hence would fall to the KyoAni director), while decisions about what to animate in the first place is more of a production decision (hence would fall to the Kadokawa producer). In both cases, though, the moves were certainly approved by Production Committee, though, so it's not as though any one part is either completely "at fault" or completely "blame-free".

I'm really curious to see the DVD sales of this whole failure :heh: And not because i expect awful sales... no! Mark my word: the dvds will sell fine... and that will be the most hilarious thing in years.:heh:And it's going to be yet another "those Japanese otaku are so stupid for buying this crap" judgement call from the peanut gallery. :rolleyes: If people want to buy the DVDs, just let them do it in peace. It's entertainment; there's no wrong reason to buy it.

Kogetsu Shirogane

2009-07-23, 12:27

I'm really curious to see the DVD sales of this whole failure :heh: And not because i expect awful sales... no! Mark my word: the dvds will sell fine... and that will be the most hilarious thing in years.:heh:

It would only be the most hilarious thing in years if it exceeds the 06 airing's DVDs.

Ice Block

2009-07-23, 12:29

It's not gonna end till August ends! Yeah, here's one for the Endless Eight till August Twenty Eight theory.

For animation and art quality, I'd put this at 2nd best for the E8 series, right behind the previous. Not much new stuff this episode. The only thing I noticed was the return of KyoAni's trademark rotating electric fan. :heh:

Will rewatch later when subs are out to catch the finer details.
----------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_LZOfuC7qs
That video was IMO the best of the E8 ones -- the rhythm kind of grows on you. Works best in niconico, since you could keep it looping indefinitely. Had it playing for ~2hrs last week (or was it a couple of weeks ago -- whatever, idc). :heh:

fish eric

2009-07-23, 12:31

Well... that's awesome am i right?
Kyoani should be proud of its work :D

That's exactly the point and the funniest thing in the whole mess. How fanboys (not just the enraged fans) react.

Season 1 random episode order
"Oh wow this is genius. Kyoani is amazing to have done this"

Season 2 endless eight
"Hey! It's not Kyoani's fault at all! Hate Kadokawa! It's obviously their fault!"
:eyespin:
There is just no way Kyoani could be less than stellar in their mind. Well that's the definition of fanboy after all.
:cool:

I'm really curious to see the DVD sales of this whole failure :heh: And not because i expect awful sales... no! Mark my word: the dvds will sell fine... and that will be the most hilarious thing in years.:heh:

I bet they will sell fine too. I like how alot of people have been saying that they will be terrible. As if though they can see the future. I think they are just trying to justify their rage.

No matter how much people have bitched the last 4 weeks one thing hasn't changed and that is that the same people are watching week after week.

Daniel E.

2009-07-23, 12:32

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_LZOfuC7qs

This video sums up my thoughts.

Can't believe I just went through the almost ten minutes of that. >_<

Though, the music does lure you in after the first few minutes. :heh:

Raiga

2009-07-23, 12:33

Meh, missed all but five minutes of the live. I think I'll wait for the six-episode-side-by-side-comparison vid to go up on Nico, watching that usually alleviates the boredom of watching the same thing I've seen the past five weeks.

bladeofdarkness

2009-07-23, 12:34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_LZOfuC7qs

This video sums up my thoughts.

while the subject matter is a bitch
i have to admit that this video is fucking awesome

ReneeBurossamu

2009-07-23, 12:39

Expected. Apparently people left the production committee, so that's why Haruhi's production/episode placement fucking sucks now.

EDIT, DAMMMITTTTT someone beat me to it above.

Myssa Rei

2009-07-23, 12:40

*snips*

Yes, it was posted both at the Relaunch thread and the one for the previous episode.

Mr. Yoso

2009-07-23, 12:47

all i could say is!
nobody ever promised / confirmed a certain amount of episodes for the "Re-airing"
so why is everyone worrying about Sighs being shafted? (or even Disappearance)
let's all wait 'til it's all over, ne?

oh, and one more thing,
KYON-KUN, DENWA~~~

hahaha

spawnofthejudge

2009-07-23, 12:51

nobody ever promised / confirmed a certain amount of episodes for the "Re-airing"
so why is everyone worrying about Sighs being shafted? (or even Disappearance)
let's all wait 'til it's all over, ne?There was a leak from one or more of the TV stations that were airing Haruhi, saying that there were 28 eps. It disappeared.

Mr. Yoso

2009-07-23, 12:55

well if it was never confirmed then it's as good as moot
best thing to do right now is to watch every episode live
that way you still get excited XD
especially around the end! (provided you don't see how many minutes left there is)

Dr. Casey

2009-07-23, 13:05

SoldierOfDarkness

2009-07-23, 13:10

It's not gonna end till August ends! Yeah, here's one for the Endless Eight till August Twenty Eight theory.

For animation and art quality, I'd put this at 2nd best for the E8 series, right behind the previous. Not much new stuff this episode. The only thing I noticed was the return of KyoAni's trademark rotating electric fan. :heh:

I've been following these posts for some time but it seems that the only thing that matters is the animation and art quality...

Is that what's the show's all about now?

Roseweave

2009-07-23, 13:10

fish eric

2009-07-23, 13:12

I've been following these posts for some time but it seems that the only thing that matters is the animation and art quality...

Is that what's the show's all about now?

for me it is as important as the actual story.

otacu

2009-07-23, 13:24

Open the poll! :D

spawnofthejudge

2009-07-23, 13:27

The thing is at this stage it's just getting more and more unimaginably pointless and wasteful. Though some people might be going LOL TROLL HILARIOUS, people are just loosing interest and importantly like so many other shitty anime, the time and money put into this could be put into something worthwhile.

I'm really starting to get angry not just because of fanboy rage, but because it's so ridiculously wasteful in a time we should really not be.A theory, if I may.

I have often heard that animation studios/production companies think that otaku have precisely a three year memory. If we take that to be true (that they believe it, not that otaku really do have a three year memory), then a re-airing of a three-year-old anime about to get a sequel is a really good idea. The question then became: What order?

Goodness did that argument last long. But the kicker was this: for the next season, they really wanted Disappearance to be the highlight, and it would be... nowhere special among the planned new episodes. So why not air in chronological order and start adding in stories that fit in that area? Obvious problem: there aren't enough episodes to just 'slot in' and end with Someday in the Rain at the end of a doubled reairing (I think anime brackets are generally purchased in cours). So what to do about that...

Endless Eight.

Oh, genius! We can finish the reairing with a reaired episode (namely, Someday in the Rain), and begin Season Two where that left off.

And thus, the egg that birthed the nerdrage seen here was born.

Thoughts?

relentlessflame

2009-07-23, 13:38

It's interesting how a fair number of people, AnimeSuki and in general, are annoyed by the anti-Endless Eight crowd and describe them as bitching, griping, etc. People on AnimeSuki bitch about everything. We bitch about Shana II having the audacity to focus on the relationships between the main characters instead of Fuzetsu battles (Which tend to be about as exciting as watching Yuki read in Someday in the Rain), we bitch about K-ON not placing enough focus on the music, we bitch about Saki not always properly adhering to the rules of Mahjong, but somehow it's the backlash against Endless Eight that people end up considering obnoxious.Not sure who you're referring to specifically, but I'm pretty sure I've personally complained about all those things you've listed and more, so it's not as if "all of a sudden" I'm finding this to be too much. There's nothing wrong at all with expressing disappointment, but it'd sure be swell if people would wise up a bit about the way they express it and demonstrate some critical thinking and objectivity when trying to explain why they do or don't like something. That'd at least make the conversation more pleasant, rather than just having people yell "This Sucks And Everyone Thinks Otherwise Is A Goddarn Fanboy" at the top of their lungs endlessly. (But to be clear, I wasn't referring to you in saying this.)

I have often heard that animation studios/production companies think that otaku have precisely a three year memory. If we take that to be true (that they believe it, not that otaku really do have a three year memory), then a re-airing of a three-year-old anime about to get a sequel is a really good idea. The question then became: What order?

Goodness did that argument last long. But the kicker was this: for the next season, they really wanted Disappearance to be the highlight, and it would be... nowhere special among the planned new episodes. So why not air in chronological order and start adding in stories that fit in that area? Obvious problem: there aren't enough episodes to just 'slot in' and end with Someday in the Rain at the end of a doubled reairing (I think anime brackets are generally purchased in cours). So what to do about that...

Endless Eight.

Oh, genius! We can finish the reairing with a reaired episode (namely, Someday in the Rain), and begin Season Two where that left off.I think your theory is extremely reasonable and completely believable, and I think I alluded to something similar in the general thread a little while ago. I've long believed this re-airing was simply a prelude to a second season, and the added episodes are just supposed to be "gap-fillers". In this case, the other gap they needed to fill was the 2-cour timeslot. People get all outraged about this, but I suppose they could have just bought a "18-episode" slot and said "hey, we're only adding 4 new episodes" (or whatever). In that case, no one would have been so mad since they would have known what was going on. But it's just because they've left people in the dark that people rage incessantly about how they were robbed of the second season they were "promised". It's all in how you look at it.

So anyway, yes -- I'll certainly buy that theory, and would bet that we'll see a true second season within a year.

Kristen

2009-07-23, 13:42

So, with this, Kadokawa has succeeded in animating a 45 page short story in more episodes than the entire Melancholy, a full novel.

I'm just watching the total rating for this season plummet. Even if they come up with perfect 10 material for the rest of the season, they've already crapped up 1/2 the season, so it's an instant 5 or lower. >.>

Starlight

2009-07-23, 13:49

while the subject matter is a bitch
i have to admit that this video is fucking awesome

I swear to God that video gave me a stitch from laughing so much...

Triple_R

2009-07-23, 13:58

A theory, if I may.

I have often heard that animation studios/production companies think that otaku have precisely a three year memory. If we take that to be true (that they believe it, not that otaku really do have a three year memory), then a re-airing of a three-year-old anime about to get a sequel is a really good idea. The question then became: What order?

Goodness did that argument last long. But the kicker was this: for the next season, they really wanted Disappearance to be the highlight, and it would be... nowhere special among the planned new episodes. So why not air in chronological order and start adding in stories that fit in that area? Obvious problem: there aren't enough episodes to just 'slot in' and end with Someday in the Rain at the end of a doubled reairing (I think anime brackets are generally purchased in cours). So what to do about that...

Endless Eight.

Oh, genius! We can finish the reairing with a reaired episode (namely, Someday in the Rain), and begin Season Two where that left off.

And thus, the egg that birthed the nerdrage seen here was born.

Thoughts?

Otaku = Anime nerd (I use neither of these terms derogatorily, I hasten to add - I myself am an anime nerd to a certain extent)

Nerds never forget anything that's related to something that they're interested in. That's one of the key characteristics of nerds - their ability to remember the most mundane details of their favorite shows several years after they last aired.

So... otaku don't have a three-year old memory. The continuing immense popularity of Neon Genesis Evangelion proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

If anime studios seriously think that otakus have three-year old memories (especially when it comes to a series as popular as Haruhi Suzumiya) then they have even bigger problems than I thought.

Ithekro

2009-07-23, 14:03

This one ended slightly differently...during the day, rather than at night.

Akka

2009-07-23, 14:03

Well, as the episodes repeat themselves with minute variations, as my opinion on them doesn't change a lot :

Impressive work, impressive technical qualities, impressive balls/daringness, and, most of all, impressive waste and boringness.

I can perfectly understand the innovation point of view. I can perfectly understand the narrative attempt "make viewers feel what Yuki feels". I can perfectly understand the artistic challenge "let's make the same episode, but never reuse the same images/angles".
All this, I understand. I can even appreciate.

Though, I have a hard time understanding how anyone can NOT feel that the concepts, as interesting as they can be, have been excessively stretched - beyond the point of rupture, and that was several weeks ago.
That some can appreciate, more power to them - but to find surprising that other do not ? I mean, repeating so many times the same episode, it's perhaps fun/interesting/innovative in theory, but it's just soul-crushingly annoying/boring when you do view it - for a great deal of people at least.

But the real shame is the waste. So much talent, so much work, so much money, wasted on a repeat of the same episode... A pity.
The whole thing feels like a giant /facepalm. The inner serie itself seem to have been relegated in the background, with the main point of this season being the "troll" that Endless Eight has become. Isn't it sad to see that the most fun people seem to have in viewing the (pun intended) endless repetitions, is how much rage it will generate in others ? My common sense says that a serie should be viewed for itself, not for the reactions of the fans.

Anyway, I'm disappointed and sad about the waste. This whole "re-airing" seems to have been a huge commercial stunt, which always leave a bad taste when you just want to see a good show.

dr.koljan

2009-07-23, 14:07

Looking at the poll results, it seems most 1's come from people who usually don't vote and only came here to express their rage.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2377/angrierpolls.th.png (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/angrierpolls.png/)

The chart includes Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody (number zero) for comparison.

Dakota

2009-07-23, 14:12

*snip*

So anyway, yes -- I'll certainly buy that theory, and would bet that we'll see a true second season within a year.

Your writing moves me to tears. It is definitely true (whilst comparing the first airing to the second) that they're trying to blow up all our expectations and speculations, so it's best to have none. Therefore, there is no dissapointment.

Kogetsu Shirogane

2009-07-23, 14:13

It should also be pointed out that a good portion of the 10s for BLR were from people who were just glad to see a new episode of Haruhi.

Ironic, isn't it? :heh:

mokuseimaru

2009-07-23, 14:20

The poll should open.

As for the opinion expressed above about a true second season coming shortly after this one: in the spirit of those constantly repeating that "they never promised you/they don't owe you this or that" I will say, when did they ever promise such a thing.

I am almost beyond the point of trying to intelligently criticize this decision---and I consider it as more of a "decision" than an "arc". This is what would be what is called "conceptual art"---it's supposed to be about some kind of idea without any of the usual aesthetic appeal. Take for example, "One and Three Chairs" by Joseph Kosuth

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Kosuth_OneAndThreeChairs.jpg

Now, I am not a fan of this kind of art, mainly because it is just too easy. However, from another perspective, its ease of creation is supposed to be one of its merits, because it emphasizes the idea instead of traditional aesthetic appeal.

Very well. I may not like it but I can accept it.

Endless Eight, though, doesn't have this merit. The best comparison I can come up with would be, if the chair in the above work was made of solid gold, then painted over in a very clever way so it looked like an ordinary wooden chair. That would be Endless Eight.

I think if this has taught me anything, it is that I will never again complain about original filler in any series ever again. It makes you realize, hey, were the Bounts that bad? Was Curry of Life that bad? I mean, it was curry, but of life...I mean, what more do you want?

relentlessflame

2009-07-23, 14:22

Otaku = Anime nerd (I use neither of these terms derogatorily, I hasten to add - I myself am an anime nerd to a certain extent)

Nerds never forget anything that's related to something that they're interested in. That's one of the key characteristics of nerds - their ability to remember the most mundane details of their favorite shows several years after they last aired.

So... otaku don't have a three-year old memory. The continuing immense popularity of Neon Genesis Evangelion proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

If anime studios seriously think that otakus have three-year old memories (especially when it comes to a series as popular as Haruhi Suzumiya) then they have even bigger problems than I thought.No, this isn't why the three-year theory exists. Anime fandom (and especially anime merchandise purchasing) is a revolving door. Every year, some new people enter the fandom and others exist having gotten bored of it (or having found other priorities in life). There will always be a remnant who will stick around for the long-term, but these are the exceptions and not the rule. The actual membership pattern of this forum can attest to this phenomenon. I've heard multiple interviews with people in the Industry who've explained that anime merchandising in Japan is done with this model in mind -- they hit them hard and fast before they lose interest, since most customers won't keep buying DVDs for long. Even the Evangelion stuff -- they keep on remaking it and adding more spin-offs because of the revolving door of fandom. While some people stick around forever and buy everything, many people enter at a random point, buy a few things, and then leave/stop buying. I remember them saying that the average "life expectancy" of a "hardcore" anime fan is something like 12-18 months. Most people just disappear.

So, the remnant aside, that's what the three-year memory refers to: the regular turnaround of fandom. Of course they're also banking on a remnant that didn't forget and are using that remnant to bring some of the buzz back about their show, which they expect will get people to check out the first season to see what they missed.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-23, 14:24

The poll should open.

No, there's no point.

Until there's new episodes I fail to see the point of rating Endless Eight again. :heh:

My current theory is that they're trying to kill off the popularity of the Haruhi franchise, since KyoAni probably wants to forget about it and go on to new projects, and that's fine.

relentlessflame

2009-07-23, 14:28

My current theory is that they're trying to kill off the popularity of the Haruhi franchise, since KyoAni probably wants to forget about it and go on to new projects, and that's fine.They're doing a pretty poor job of killing it, then, because fan awareness and buzz is higher than ever (even if "opinion" is pretty low). Just wait until the episode that ends this arc airs, or the episode subsequent. People are so desperate now for something new that whatever we get next will seem amazing by comparison. :heh:

Edit: Also, I opened the poll now. Why not...

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-23, 14:29

Midonin

2009-07-23, 14:30

If they were trying to kill it, I don't think they'd be continually promoting all the things from this season that aren't Endless Eight. Character songs, the singles, a remix CD, and no doubt several new figures and other goodies. Trying to "kill" something involves a much more devious set of plans that are...well, pretty much the opposite of what Haruhi's getting.

Mentar

2009-07-23, 14:33

I wonder how many people are like me. People who liked the original Haruhi without going all gaga over it, and who started watching S2 with a mild feeling of disappointment in the early 2 eps (particularly the K-Oned art style), and who simply don't watch any iterations (and don't plan to) except for the one ep which breaks the loop.

My guess is that KyoAni/Kadokawa think that we don't matter at all, since we don't buy DVDs... and they may be right. But is hungering the fanbase down to the bone, and POing lots of their paying fans in the process...

Strange. But I'm not really angry. I'm giggling at the remaining "true believers" and don't care anymore. And hope that the DVD sales tank to record lows.

mokuseimaru

2009-07-23, 14:35

They're doing a pretty poor job of killing it, then, because fan awareness and buzz is higher than ever (even if "opinion" is pretty low). Just wait until the episode that ends this arc airs, or the episode subsequent. People are so desperate now for something new that whatever we get next will seem amazing by comparison. :heh:

It has been said that T.V. ratings are not important for a show like Haruhi. "Buzz" may be enough to get people to tune in, but it won't be enough for most to buy DVDs. Based on this model, I would say that, if they are trying to kill Haruhi, they certainly are doing the best they can.

Strange. But I'm not really angry. I'm giggling at the remaining "true believers" and don't care anymore. And hope that the DVD sales tank to record lows.

I quite agree. I lot of supporters repeat time and again how much they enjoy watching the fandom "rage". But I'm starting enjoy watching the them say again and again that they are "loving every episode", and even more so when they try to defend it as innovative.

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 14:42

I think most fans would take Sigh over E8 anyday, now.
I'm saying that if there's a new 14 episode DVD release and 8 of those episodes are E8, I don't think that many people will buy the DVD's.

But it's kinda fun trying to guess when it's going to end.............. Or so I keep telling myself. :meh:

Time to start believing in the 8 episode theory! :eyespin: :heh: :eyespin: :heh: :eyespin:
The Cycles will not end. They will continue for all time. Only with total annihilation of all Fandom will the cycles finally come to an end. Only then will you Crazy Eddies win.

They're doing a pretty poor job of killing it, then, because fan awareness and buzz is higher than ever (even if "opinion" is pretty low). Just wait until the episode that ends this arc airs, or the episode subsequent. People are so desperate now for something new that whatever we get next will seem amazing by comparison. :heh:
This kind of move definitely creates buzz about the series. If the shows makers made most of their money of TV ratings this would actually be a pretty deviously good idea. But they make money off DVD sales. I'm not sure this kind of hype will translate into DVD sales.

Best case scenario is most likely gonna be that they don't lose any extra income. But they still lose money because they have the additional expense of 5-6 E8 episodes which don't really pull their own weight.

panzerfan

2009-07-23, 14:44

well, mokuseimaru, you cannot deny that here we are talking about this act of masochism with eyes open, which means you can't say that you are not soiled by it!

People can say that it is rather unbecoming to get enjoyment out of something and having a 'us' vs 'them' mentality, when it's ultimately only entertainment XD

I seriously have a bad case of déjà vu, as Myssa Rei does. It's like we're party like it's 2015, or 1996.

@Mentar, or to paraphrase Jean Chrétien:

"No, publicity is publicity. Some publicity is publicity and when you have good publicity, is when you've got publicity"

Mentar

2009-07-23, 14:45

They're doing a pretty poor job of killing it, then, because fan awareness and buzz is higher than ever (even if "opinion" is pretty low).

In other words, they're testing the "there's no such thing as bad publicity, publicity is everything that counts" mantra.

relentlessflame

2009-07-23, 14:53

It has been said that T.V. ratings are not important for a show like Haruhi. "Buzz" may be enough to get people to tune in, but it won't be enough for most to buy DVDs. Based on this model, I would say that, if they are trying to kill Haruhi, they certainly are doing the best they can.How is this an effective kill strategy at all? To kill it, all they have to do is not air anything. Don't make a sequel, don't re-air it, and don't say anything more about it. Just let it die. Then it would live on forever in infamy as a great one-season show that, like so many others, was never continued. (Incidentally, I bet some people will choose to look at it this way anyway. :heh: )

This airing may not be enough to get people to buy DVDs of these episodes. But is it generating enough attention to get people to tune in for a second season? Time will tell...

In other words, they're testing the "there's no such thing as bad publicity, publicity is everything that counts" mantra.I think so. The question, then, is what are they selling? If current theories are to be believed, then perhaps they were never trying to sell DVDs of Endless Eight at all.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-23, 15:00

@Mentar, or to paraphrase Jean Chrétien:

"No, publicity is publicity. Some publicity is publicity and when you have good publicity, is when you've got publicity"

You're Canadian?

In other words, they're testing the "there's no such thing as bad publicity, publicity is everything that counts" mantra.

I really do think this is a bad way of looking at things though. It's only true to a point.

Past that point you've lost everything.

Triple_R

2009-07-23, 15:00

No, this isn't why the three-year theory exists. Anime fandom (and especially anime merchandise purchasing) is a revolving door. Every year, some new people enter the fandom and others exist having gotten bored of it (or having found other priorities in life). There will always be a remnant who will stick around for the long-term, but these are the exceptions and not the rule. The actual membership pattern of this forum can attest to this phenomenon. I've heard multiple interviews with people in the Industry who've explained that anime merchandising in Japan is done with this model in mind -- they hit them hard and fast before they lose interest, since most customers won't keep buying DVDs for long.

Bold emphasis mine.

Then a three-year gap between Season 1 Haruhi and... some new episodes, is terrible... wouldn't you agree?

Even the Evangelion stuff -- they keep on remaking it and adding more spin-offs because of the revolving door of fandom. While some people stick around forever and buy everything, many people enter at a random point, buy a few things, and then leave/stop buying. I remember them saying that the average "life expectancy" of a "hardcore" anime fan is something like 12-18 months. Most people just disappear.

So, the remnant aside, that's what the three-year memory refers to: the regular turnaround of fandom. Of course they're also banking on a remnant that didn't forget and are using that remnant to bring some of the buzz back about their show, which they expect will get people to check out the first season to see what they missed.

Bold emphasis mine

Then how is pi$$ing off your remnant - your hardcore fans - a lot of your novel readers who want Disappearance (in Haruhi's case) - with something like Endless Eight a good idea? The part of the fanbase you're counting on to create positive buzz for the show, and you are deliberately pi$$ing them off?

There are exceptions to the rule of "all publicity is good publicity".

One obvious exception, for example, is how a lot of bad word of mouth from initial movie goers during a huge opening week for a movie can cause following weeks to plummet in sales for that movie. People like seeing train wrecks, but in the modern internet age, genuinely good worthwhile content by its own merits = DVD sales, and train wrecks = a lot of free internet downloads out of people curious to see the train wreck but little actual sales.

Here's an analogy for you...

The popularity of the Haruhi Suzumiya anime is like a speeding locomotive gathering steam.

KyoAni is Superman flying down to stop the locomotive.

Endless Eight is the resulting train wreck - and like a train wreck, it brings everything to a halt.

People may flock to see the train wreck for free, but they're not going to pay to ride on it...

Conan-san

2009-07-23, 15:03

Chair'n'art stuff

Disapear,
This arc is an eyesore;
This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc.
This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc.
This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc.
THIS ARC!

KyoAni is Superman flying down to stop the locomotive
So what you're saying is This is the Countdown of japanese animation? I can buy that.

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 15:04

This airing may not be enough to get people to buy DVDs of these episodes. But is it generating enough attention to get people to tune in for a second season? Time will tell...
Which makes no sense. The airing of a 2nd season would have been enough hype. And allot cheaper than making a faux season that you never plan to sell.

I think so. The question, then, is what are they selling? If current theories are to be believed, then perhaps they were never trying to sell DVDs of Endless Eight at all.Which as I have mentioned before is like dumping money down the drain.

Kaioshin Sama

2009-07-23, 15:05

The thing is at this stage it's just getting more and more unimaginably pointless and wasteful. Though some people might be going LOL TROLL HILARIOUS, people are just loosing interest and importantly like so many other shitty anime, the time and money put into this could be put into something worthwhile.

I'm really starting to get angry not just because of fanboy rage, but because it's so ridiculously wasteful in a time we should really not be.

It strikes me as a way to avoid showing disappointment with what some "LOL EPIC TROLL" posters probably think deep down has been a waste of their time. It saves face too.

Anyway, if 2ch actually is getting genuinely upset with this arc then DVD sales will drop somewhat, but what upsets 2ch and what upsets us here follow very different criteria. Otaku need to feel personally slighted as a group in some way before the DVD sales will ever drop substantially, and it's hard to tell yet if Haruhi has fallen out of "buy" status with them. In other words don't be surprised and RAEG if the DVD's consistently top the Oricon charts as they are released, because by all measurements and gauges that could be said to exist for Otaku (that I am aware of) it's still in 15,000+ category of DVD marketability at least.

P.S: Note that Super Driver is selling at the regular level for a high profile moe show single. Let that be a sign.

relentlessflame

2009-07-23, 15:10

Then a three-year gap between Season 1 Haruhi and... some new episodes, is terrible... wouldn't you agree?As opposed to a three-year gap and a re-airing with no new episodes? It's not exactly either better or worse from that perspective.

Then how is pi$$ing off your remnant - your hardcore fans - a lot of your novel readers who want Disappearance (in Haruhi's case) - with something like Endless Eight is a good idea? The part of the fanbase you're counting on to create positive buzz for the show, and you are deliberately pi$$ing them off?Oh, please. They're pissed off now, sure. But what will happen when they do animate the part they're waiting for? Are you telling me that, given this show's otherwise long-standing tradition of being rather faithful to the novels, they're going to say "nope, not interested" even though they've been looking forward to it for so long?

What people are so pissed off about is that they're being made to wait even longer, and they feel like they've been mislead to think that they'd get it sooner rather than later. But once you get over that anger, it's just a delay. They haven't "destroyed the novels" or "ruined our chances of seeing the rest of the novels animated". And when that happens, I don't think all the novel fans who have waited this long are going to seriously be like "I don't care anymore about Haruhi". They've waited three years already, what's a little bit longer?

One obvious exception, for example, is how a lot of bad word of mouth from initial movie goers during a huge opening week for a movie can cause following weeks to plummet in sales for that movie. People like seeing train wrecks, but in the modern internet age, genuinely good worthwhile content by its own merits = DVD sales, and train wrecks = a lot of free internet downloads out of people curious to see the train wreck but little actual sales. Why do DVD sales of Endless Eight matter to you? They only matter if Kadokawa thought they were going to use those sales as a barometer of whether it's worth continuing on with the project. Do you really honestly believe they have those expectations...?

I mean, disappointment is understandable, but let's be reasonable here.

Which makes no sense. The airing of a 2nd season would have been enough hype. And allot cheaper than making a faux season that you never plan to sell.It doesn't have to make sense to us, though. If they want to burn money on something many around here feel is a waste of time, why not?

Jenni

2009-07-23, 15:12

I'm saying that if there's a new 14 episode DVD release and 8 of those episodes are E8, I don't think that many people will buy the DVD's.

The Cycles will not end. They will continue for all time. Only with total annihilation of all Fandom will the cycles finally come to an end. Only then will you Crazy Eddies win.

What's with all these Mote In God's Eye references?

Midonin

2009-07-23, 15:14

I wonder if there's a tally on how many metaphors and similes people have likened this to over the past few months.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-23, 15:16

Why do DVD sales of Endless Eight matter to you? They only matter if Kadokawa thought they were going to use those sales as a barometer of whether it's worth continuing on with the project.

I'm sure that this is exactly what they are doing.

So no, I don't think we'll be seeing a real S2 or that tenth novel, ever. :heh:

chikorita157

2009-07-23, 15:16

This episode gets a 2/10, since the animation is great and all, but the content have been copied so many times that it just become a big pile of fail...

Do better next time Kadokawa and stop photocopying the same content from the last 5 episodes.

dr.koljan

2009-07-23, 15:17

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 15:20

It doesn't have to make sense to us, though. If they want to burn money on something many around here feel is a waste of time, why not?
Well most businesses don't operate under the principle of wasting money intentionally. Not ones that last very long at least.

Burning money for a gag during an economic downturn isn't a very smart thing for an entertainment company to do. They can never know when they could have genuinely needed it.
What's with all these Mote In God's Eye references?The Moties of trapped in an endless recursion of their cycle of overpopulation, total war and societal collapse much like we are stuck with endlessly repeating cycles of Endless 8. I thought it was somewhat similar.

Also, you win one free internet for catching the reference.

relentlessflame

2009-07-23, 15:21

I'm sure that this is exactly what they are doing.

So no, I don't think we'll be seeing a real S2 or that tenth novel, ever. :heh:I see that your faith in the decision-making of large multi-million-dollar corporations is... well, what it is... :heh: Seriously, though, a move like this can only happen when all of the companies involved are very comfortable in the stability of the franchise. And in fact, it's been said that something like this could only be done because it's Haruhi. I'm not worried at all about the impact of sales on future seasons. And despite rumours to the contrary, we still haven't had any official news on how these episodes are going to be sold anyway.

People worry so much about things they can't change...

Burning money for a gag during an economic downturn isn't a very smart thing for an entertainment company to do. They can never know when they could have genuinely needed it.At that time, they can just start animating the novels the way everyone keeps wanting them to, and then... :heh:

Triple_R

2009-07-23, 15:24

Disapear,
This arc is an eyesore;
This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc.
This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc.
This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc.
THIS ARC!

So what you're saying is This is the Countdown of japanese animation? I can buy that.

Yes... to be even more specific KyoAni is Superboy Prime throwing retcon punch after retcon punch to create endless iterations of Endless Eight... ;)

Kogetsu Shirogane

2009-07-23, 15:26

a lot of your novel readers who want Disappearance

Why would anyone want Disappearance haphazardly tacked onto the end of the '06 season instead of getting a main story treatment? That would be an even greater disservice to it than the delay. :heh:

mokuseimaru

2009-07-23, 15:26

It doesn't have to make sense to us, though. If they want to burn money on something many around here feel is a waste of time, why not?

Let me put it this way: for starting this re-airing or second season or whatever you want to call it, only for it to be at least half a hoax, they are assholes. If the president of Kyoani or Kadokawa invited me to his birthday party, I would not go, not even for free cake and ice cream.

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 15:29

I'm not worried at all about the impact of sales on future seasons.
Neither am I. I'm just interested on a purely intellectual basis. They're obviously not doing this because they like making the fans happy and they're not doing because it makes them money.
And despite rumours to the contrary, we still haven't had any official news on how these episodes are going to be sold anyway.

Two options.

Have the E8 episodes on their own DVD's.
Divide the E8 episodes amongst the DVD's

With the first one the malcontents will skip on the episodes filled with E8 and only buy the non E8 DVD's

The second one will likely have more of the malcontents cave in and buy the entire season for the part that's not E8, but that will be canceled out by the Malcontents who won't buy any of the DVD's because of E8.

If the president of Kyoani or Kadokawa invited me to his birthday party, I would not go, not even for free cake and ice cream.Indeed. The cake is a lie.

Triple_R

2009-07-23, 15:29

Why would anyone want Disappearance haphazardly tacked onto the end of the '06 season instead of getting a main story treatment? That would be an even greater disservice to it than the delay. :heh:

At this juncture, yes, but if they had only done 3 or fewer EE episodes, they would have had enough episodes to do some justice with Disappearance this summer.

relentlessflame

2009-07-23, 15:31

Let me put it this way: for starting this re-airing or second season or whatever you want to call it, only for it to be at least half a hoax, they are certainly assholes. If they president of Kyoani or Kadokawa invited me to his birthday party, I would not go, not even for free cake and ice cream.LOL. That analogy wins on many levels, and really does explain the reaction. People got their feelings hurt when their expectations were trampled by the game they're being "subjected to". The producers didn't play by the rules, and they violated the "trust" of the viewers, who now feel betrayed.

I'd go for the cake and ice cream. I'm genuinely interested in knowing how they came up with this idea in the first place. I'd love to hear the whole story at some point, not that I think it'll ever be exposed...

Neither am I. I'm just interested on a purely intellectual basis. They're obviously not doing this because they like making the fans happy and they're not doing because it makes them money.Agreed. That's what makes this so fascinating; it defies most of what we think of as logical explanations. The only options are that there's a logic we don't see, or that it's just pure random chaos. Either way, it's interesting because it doesn't happen very often.

Kogetsu Shirogane

2009-07-23, 15:34

At this juncture, yes, but if they had only done 3 or fewer EE episodes, they would have had enough episodes to do some justice with Disappearance this summer.

You missed my point. If Disappearance truly is held in as high regard as it seems to be, I don't see why anyone would want it treated the exact same way as Sigh or the various short stories that make up the bulk of 06 Haruhi. :heh:

Triple_R

2009-07-23, 15:41

As opposed to a three-year gap and a re-airing with no new episodes? It's not exactly either better or worse from that perspective.

Oh, please. They're pissed off now, sure. But what will happen when they do animate the part they're waiting for? Are you telling me that, given this show's otherwise long-standing tradition of being rather faithful to the novels,

They're not exactly being faithful now, are they?

they're going to say "nope, not interested" even though they've been looking forward to it for so long?

I'm saying that this Endless Eight fiasco is probably hurting the Haruhi anime - possibly long term - amongst potential new fans. It would have been better if Season 2 had given the hardcore Haruhi fans more of what they wanted so that we'd have a positive buzz going which would help to bring in more potential new fans.

These new anime episodes could have brought in new fans - it's not happening. Not from what I've seen on a few different boards, anyway. Aside from being an utter joke on more generic anime boards and pop fiction boards, Haruhi Season 2 (or whatever you want to call this) isn't getting talked about at all on these boards. Even if this is all just for marketing purposes - even if it's just to set-up the true Season 2; it's wasteful marketing.

How many new fans do you honestly think Endless Eight is bringing in?

Compare that to the new fans that could have been brought in if you had the production values and animation quality of Endless Eight but with actual plot progression.

Even pure plot filler would likely be better than this (marketing wise), and attract more fans. Like another person said on this thread... I'll never complain about something like the Bounts arc in Bleach ever again because of this. I've read the destruction of Planet Namek compared favorably to this.

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 15:43

Agreed. That's what makes this so fascinating; it defies most of what we think of as logical explanations. The only options are that there's a logic we don't see, or that it's just pure random chaos. Either way, it's interesting because it doesn't happen very often.
No, I just think they're insane at this point.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-23, 15:47

No, I just think they're insane at this point.

Agreed. It's pure marketing stupidity.

This is why I have absolutely no faith in seeing anything Haruhi-related after this finishes airing, EVER. Why would they? It'd make sense.

They've only accomplished three things: a) proving that they're idiots, b) destroying KyoAni's reputation, and c) turning Haruhi into a fucking joke.

None of which will net them any money. They're more likely to lose it.

Archon_Wing

2009-07-23, 15:50

I've updated the chart to make it more understandable.

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1396/betterchart.th.png (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/betterchart.png/)

It compares the poll results of Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody and the 5 Endless Eight episodes.

Nice chart. It's good to visualize these things. :)

And unfortunately judging by these results, it's probably more interesting than the actual episode. :D

Akka

2009-07-23, 15:50

I'd go for the cake and ice cream. I'm genuinely interested in knowing how they came up with this idea in the first place. I'd love to hear the whole story at some point, not that I think it'll ever be exposed...

Agreed. That's what makes this so fascinating; it defies most of what we think of as logical explanations. The only options are that there's a logic we don't see, or that it's just pure random chaos. Either way, it's interesting because it doesn't happen very often.
Gotta agree on this. I'm very curious to learn about what happened in their mind about this whole story. It seems to defy all logic and common sense.

If it's publicity, it's very expensive and, though it DOES work in making people talk about the show, it's not in very flattering tones. And as someone said, it's not because people are interested in watching a train wreck, they'll want to PAY to watch it.

If it's artistic license, it seems hard to not see it's been pushed too far by a LONG way.

If it's internal drama between Kadokawa and KyoAni... well, people like to know about drama :D

Anyway, knowing at least the reasons about all this, is sure to be entertaining - sadly, it's sure to be much more entertaining than the EE itself, which is shamefully twisted for an entertainement show.

But I doubt we'll ever have the real reason behind all this - I'm afraid that companies in general aren't too prone to speak about their secrets, and asian ones have the reputation to be even more secretive.

DJLowrider

2009-07-23, 15:57

A play on a line from a song comes to mind...

If you're wondering why they troll and tease and other business facts...just repeat to yourself, "It's just a show, I should really just relax."

8/10 episode, if only because of the continued "outrage" of the fan base.

relentlessflame

2009-07-23, 16:03

They're not exactly being faithful now, are they?That's a dead-end, and you know it. They're in a timeloop, and have only made changes that would allow them to continue showing loops without novel readers knowing when it was going to end. It's pretty essential to the concept they're pulling off. It's faithful except to the extent that being faithful would preclude them from keeping the surprise factor that they clearly wanted, so I'm not sure how to measure that "fault".

How many new fans do you honestly think Endless Eight is bringing in?

Compare that to the new fans that could have been brought in if you had the production values and animation quality of Endless Eight but with actual plot progression.

Even pure filler would likely be better than this (marketing wise), and attract more fans. I've read the destruction of Planet Namek compared favorably to this.And so...?

I'm not trying to defend this as some sort of inspired move that's without parallel, or was the best of all the options they could have chosen. None of us know why they did this. I'm just saying that I have my doubts about the long-term consequences of this move. They obviously felt they wanted to re-air the show and add some new content. What they added was one new episode and this looping story arc, which had the effect of messing with the audience. Could they have sold more DVDs if they had just done what everyone wanted? I don't know... maybe? probably? possibly? Who knows... Will the show sell as well when they do eventually do what people want? Will there be a noted drop in DVD sales for the next season that's as a direct result of Endless Eight? Will said drop be significant enough to have any impact whatsoever on the future of this anime franchise? In all cases, we'll see. We're just playing armchair CEO here, and we don't have enough information or experience to make actual judgement calls. But if you think I'm trying to defend this whole thing as a "smart decision", I'm not. I'm just saying that I wonder whether it'll really end up being as stupid as people think.

Triple_R

2009-07-23, 16:08

That's a dead-end, and you know it. They're in a timeloop, and have only made changes that would allow them to continue showing loops without novel readers knowing when it was going to end. It's pretty essential to the concept they're pulling off. It's faithful except to the extent that being faithful would preclude them from keeping the surprise factor that they clearly wanted, so I'm not sure how to measure that "fault".

And so...?

I'm not trying to defend this as some sort of inspired move that's without parallel, or was the best of all the options they could have chosen. None of us know why they did this. I'm just saying that I have my doubts about the long-term consequences of this move. They obviously felt they wanted to re-air the show and add some new content. What they added was one new episode and this looping story arc, which had the effect of messing with the audience. Could they have sold more DVDs if they had just done what everyone wanted? I don't know... maybe? probably? possibly? Who knows... Will the show sell as well when they do eventually do what people want? Will there be a noted drop in DVD sales for the next season that's as a direct result of Endless Eight? Will said drop be significant enough to have any impact whatsoever on the future of this anime franchise? In all cases, we'll see. We're just playing armchair CEO here, and we don't have enough information or experience to make actual judgement calls.

My feelings on this are the same as Kaisos Erranon's. They've botched this up to such a degree that I'm no longer confident that we're even going to see more Haruhi anime after this season... not by this anime studio anyway.

JC Staff has its faults, but I'd like to see what they could do with Haruhi. That's honestly how I feel right now.

Darkblaze

2009-07-23, 16:12

is it over?!

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-23, 16:12

JC Staff has its faults, but I'd like to see what they could do with Haruhi. That's honestly how I feel right now.

Ugh, not JC Staff... they only work with a particular style of show, and Haruhi is not one of those.

Besides, they don't have the production quality.

Just give it to Yamakan, Studio Ordet, and A-1 Pictures. A director and studio that cares.

spawnofthejudge

2009-07-23, 16:14

I'm sure that this is exactly what they are doing.

So no, I don't think we'll be seeing a real S2 or that tenth novel, ever. :heh:

Kadokawa doesn't own the novels. They own the license for the franchise outside the novels. The novels themselves are still (and shall always be) the author's.

The blame for the novel delay is very likely to be all on him.

Edit: I don't currently trust A-1 Pictures for adaptations. At all.

Triple_R

2009-07-23, 16:17

Ugh, not JC Staff... they only work with a particular style of show, and Haruhi is not one of those.

Besides, they don't have the production quality.

Just give it to Yamakan, Studio Ordet, and A-1 Pictures. A director and studio that cares.

I'm a big fan of a lot of JC Staff properties (most notably Shakugan no Shana) but to each their own. :)

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-23, 16:19

Kadokawa doesn't own the novels. They own the license for the franchise outside the novels. The novels themselves are still (and shall always be) the author's.

The blame for the novel delay is very likely to be all on him.

Wrong. Kadokawa publishes the novels, too.

Tanigawa likely has no say in what they do with what he's written.

Edit: I don't currently trust A-1 Pictures for adaptations. At all.

Technically, Ordet would just be using A-1's manpower, like they did with Kannagi. Don't think of Valkyrie Chronicles as an indication of what a Haruhi adaptation would be like.

I'm a big fan of a lot of JC Staff properties (most notably Shakugan no Shana) but to each their own. :)

Exactly. Shana is quite a bit different from Haruhi.

JC Staff could not do this show justice in the least.

Kogetsu Shirogane

2009-07-23, 16:20

Just keep in mind that, should a different studio get their hands on the franchise, they'll most likely start over from the beginning, whether they actually have to or not.

In other words, you'd probably end up waiting even longer for actual new material than you would if Kadokawa and KyoAni retained the rights. :heh:

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 16:21

relentlessflame

2009-07-23, 16:24

My feelings on this are the same as Kaisos Erranon's. They've botched this up to such a degree that I'm no longer confident that we're even going to see more Haruhi anime after this season... not by this anime studio anyway. That really has no logic to it. Why would the producers, who have clearly been in on this joke for a long time, turn on Kyoto Animation and make them the scapegoat for this apparent failure, especially after their long history of collaboration? Too much drama...

Let's try to bring this back on topic and not get into an entire tangent about which other studio should animate future seasons of Haruhi. That has nothing to do with this episode.

Daniel E.

2009-07-23, 16:29

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-23, 16:29

That really has no logic to it. Why would the producers, who have clearly been in on this joke for a long time, turn on Kyoto Animation and make them the scapegoat for this apparent failure, especially after their long history of collaboration?

Why not?

Logic isn't a factor here anymore. If they operated on any kind of logic, we wouldn't be having seven episodes of Endless Eight.

Triple_R

2009-07-23, 16:30

That really has no logic to it. Why would the producers, who have clearly been in on this joke for a long time, turn on Kyoto Animation and make them the scapegoat for this apparent failure, especially after their long history of collaboration? Too much drama...

Let's try to bring this back on topic and not get into an entire tangent about which other studio should animate future seasons of Haruhi. That has nothing to do with this episode.

I'm not saying that I expect to see another anime studio get Haruhi. I'm saying that I'm at a point where I'd honestly welcome it.

spawnofthejudge

2009-07-23, 16:32

Why not?

Logic isn't a factor here anymore. If they operated on any kind of logic, we wouldn't be having seven episodes of Endless Eight.There are clearly things about this we can't see... reasons for doing these things that aren't released to the public. Logic, however, may turn out to be the reason why they do drop KyoAni like a bad habit. We just don't know.

relentlessflame

2009-07-23, 16:35

Why not?

Logic isn't a factor here anymore. If they operated on any kind of logic, we wouldn't be having seven episodes of Endless Eight.So, because we're no longer operating in the realm of logic, we can make whatever outlandish predictions we want and they're all equally likely? :heh: Well, I guess in a weird sort of way, that might have been one of the goals of Endless Eight.

I wanna know too.

Why, they could even inlclude it in the DVD's as a "behind the scenes" extra or something. :pHey, yeah -- forget about the episode content, they could just make a DVD that's "behind the scenes" of making this series of episodes, and that's something I'd buy. If it's generating this much debate here, I can only imagine how much discussion and debate occurred between the creative teams involved in the production. Fascinating stuff.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-23, 16:35

There are clearly things about this we can't see... reasons for doing these things that aren't released to the public. Logic, however, may turn out to be the reason why they do drop KyoAni like a bad habit. We just don't know.

Well, I guess it's time to turn the chessboard over.

*cough* I guess you're right.

Still, they're pretty much ruined KyoAni's reputation just by doing this. I can't see any reason for it, except that they didn't expect it to backfire this much.

So, because we're no longer operating in the realm of logic, we can make whatever outlandish predictions we want and they're all equally likely? :heh:

In all honesty, yeah.

bayoab

2009-07-23, 16:36

Early on there was a rumor that the sponsors were so angry that Kadokawa offered one of the people responsible to them as a sacrifice (fired him). Was there ever any confirmation of this rumor?
This episode pretty much debunked that rumor.

Eak

2009-07-23, 16:40

Such as waste of episodes to build up a solution that is really, really lame (not to mention extremely short).

Takamura Mamoru

2009-07-23, 16:49

Voted a 1, as usual. :p

They should do a commentary that you usually find on DVDs, but as a broadcasted episode.

Kogetsu Shirogane

2009-07-23, 16:54

They should do a commentary that you usually find on DVDs, but as a broadcasted episode.

Why? So people could complain about another "wasted timeslot"? :heh:

Eak

2009-07-23, 17:10

But all lameness aside.. animation-wise this one was beautiful. The best so far in my opinion

mokuseimaru

2009-07-23, 17:17

Right now, the only question that remains is, will there be 8 episodes or 13. At first, I think no one seriously considered they'd do all 13 episodes. It was a joke when most people said it, but now who knows.

You know, right now, even more than than the conclusion, I want to see the defenders (you know who you are) crack like the rest of us. Bafflement and awe and claims that a true 2nd season is around the corner can only go so far. It's not like those of us who are pissed about this are so 24/7---you can say it's just entertainment, but anger and frustration is a natural response to being teased and denied. You know the kind of punishment the Greek's envisioned for Sisyphus---rolling a boulder up a hill and having it always roll back down before he reached the top. For Tantalus, it was starving and dying of thirst while being half submerged in water with a plate of fruit hanging just out of reach, either of which would disappear if he reached for them. This obviously isn't as extreme, but the idea is basically the same: to torture.

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 17:28

But all lameness aside.. animation-wise this one was beautiful. The best so far in my opinion
Which is rather sad. If it wasn't for all the drama over E8 everyone would be really excited about the animation quality going up so much.

Midonin

2009-07-23, 17:34

This obviously isn't as extreme, but the idea is basically the same: to torture.
There's about five different ways I can spin this punchline, but politics are a touchy topic online, so they shall remain unsaid.

But oh, the potential.

relentlessflame

2009-07-23, 17:35

You know, right now, even more than than the conclusion, I want to see the defenders (you know who you are) crack like the rest of us. Bafflement and awe and claims that a true 2nd season is around the corner can only go so far. It's not like those of us who are pissed about this are so 24/7---you can say it's just entertainment, but anger and frustration is a natural response to being teased and denied. You know the kind of punishment the Greek's envisioned for Sisyphus---rolling a boulder up a hill and having it always roll back down before he reached the top. Tantalus, it was starving and dying of thirst while being half submerged in water with a plate of fruit hanging just out of reach, either of which would disappear if he reached for them. This obviously isn't as extreme, but the idea is basically the same: to torture.ROFL. Now it's torture, is it?! :heh: (Again, I suppose we could go with the "how do you think Yuki feels?!" bit. :p )

The only reason some people haven't "cracked" (and won't) is because they don't have the same degree of emotional investment in seeing the show continue right away. Rather than be angry about it, they're probably just looking at the show with detached, abstract curiosity/fascination. In other words, you only get mad if you take it personally. Most other people would just stop caring.

The way I see it, what would be worse would be if they started changing the story in such a way that would preclude them from animating future content properly, because then they can't go back. So far, though, they haven't done that, so nothing has been permanently lost. Just put on hold... endlessly...

I sure they'll animate more story when they feel like it, and when they do, I'm sure it'll be fine. Until then, all we can do is wait anyway.

Roger Rambo

2009-07-23, 17:46

The only reason some people haven't "cracked" (and won't) is because they don't have the same degree of emotional investment in seeing the show continue right away. Rather than be angry about it, they're probably just looking at the show with detached, abstract curiosity/fascination. In other words, you only get mad if you take it personally. Most other people would just stop caring.

I think it's more a case of all the casual people who did get genuinely excited about the new episodes no longer really care anymore. Sure the fanboys continue to get worked up and make allot of noise, but by this point the vast majority of people simply can't get worked up over this anymore.

Some people talk about everyone getting worked up again when the E8 loop ends...but that doesn't seem very realistic expectation. The fans already got worked up into a jubilant frenzy by just having new episodes. And now they're down from that high. There not gonna get worked up to even a fraction of what happened previously. What will happen is that a core of enthusiastic people will get really excited about E8 ending and laugh about it...but everyone else will simply go meh and move on.

The momentum is gone.

Kaisos Erranon

2009-07-23, 17:52

The momentum is gone.

And this is why Haruhi has, as people have been saying, jumped the shark.

Heatth

2009-07-23, 18:02

And this is why Haruhi has, as people have been saying, jumped the shark.

Can't you only say hat the shark was jumped if all that happens after is also bad? The Second Season (you know, the real one) can still be good.

wittyusername

2009-07-23, 18:03

...At least this episode was pretty.

Honestly, it's like I can't even be bothered with this series anymore. At first I thought the whole idea of multiple episodes for Endless Eight was interesting, if not a little bit annoying. If it had worked out to be an episode with no one doing anything about the loop, an episode where Kyon failed to end the loop, and an episode where he finally stopped being dumb as bricks...well, that would've been nice. Maybe not the most otaku-wrath provoking thing to ever happen, but not everything has to cause ragesplosions.

But that didn't happen, did it?

It's like how there's stages for grief, but for annoyance at Endless Eight. First there's the "oh, well, uh, hopefully this will be interesting. It's Haruhi, isn't it?" stage. Then there's the "HAHAHA WHAT" stage, which rolls around at about the same time Kyon decides he might as well forget about his homework. Next, once the animation's gotten kind of disappointing and characters suffer from the dreaded whaleteeth disease, you start to just get plain old pissed off. After that you either decide that it's not that bad, because at least now you really get to feel how Yuki would, or you decide that the whole thing's just gotten stupid.

At least the ending's gonna feel comparatively kickass, if when the final Endless Eight episode does show up.

tl;dr: lol haruhi please don't go further downhill ;__;

Triple_R

2009-07-23, 18:05

relentlessflame and Roger Rambo - If this was a lesser anime, I wouldn't be this upset. But this isn't a lesser anime - this is a flagship anime; an anime that became an internet culture phenomena; something with incredible long-term potential; something that even transcended anime itself to a certain degree. The name "Haruhi Suzumiya" is one of a very few anime character names (almost certainly the only non-shonen anime character name) to actually become a "household name" of sorts on the internet.

Simply put, if handled right, this particular anime could have done loads of good for anime in general - it could have lifted the entire industry a la what Hulk Hogan did for pro wrestling in the 1980s - the potential that I strongly suspect has been lost forever is simply staggering. And that potential is lost in the midst of a world recession... because KyoAni has run this anime right into the ground... *sigh*

Oh well... one way you're right is that there's not much we can do but vent and speculate. And maybe make spoof videos, which I might try my hand at again soon just to try to get some humor out of this.

Akka

2009-07-23, 18:09

So far, though, they haven't done that, so nothing has been permanently lost. Just put on hold... endlessly...
It could be argued that the time, money, work and art for five episodes has been lost.

All this isn't free, and when you see that it took three years for a new season (or whatever you wish to call this) for Haruhi, and that some other franchises are still waiting for their own follow-up (say hello to my avatar), I can understand that each episode wasted is painfully felt for fans. It's an episode that will not be spent into a good story.
I'm "only" disappointed by how boring the serie has become, because I liked the show but wasn't a fanboy of it. But (edited for clarity) a true fan someone who strongly loved the serie, who see one after one each of the precious 14 new episodes vanish into non-existent story, wasted just to make a troll/concept, has definitely a right to be quite mad at this. I'm pretty sure I would be if they had done this to FMP.

Ressources aren't infinite (especially time), and each airing has only very limited time slots, so every week spend on wasting them, is actually permanently lost in a way ^^