View Full Version : Claymore Chapter 94
MisterJB
2009-08-16, 08:17
It's true. Isley was the number 1, Rigaldo was ranked 2 and Duff was ranked 3, but there's no mention whether they were in the first generation or not. There's no guarantee that they were all even in the same generation. There's only the implication that Isley and Rigaldo where in the same generation because they had been rivals at one time, but no mention of Duff in the slightest. It's more likely Duff was in Riful's generation because they are together. But there never was any clear mention of Isley being in the very first generation of Claymores. I can't speak for the databooks though, because I never read them. My mistake about Riful's age though. I was sure I read it somewhere.
One of the ABs that was in Isley's army, someone called Gaheh, said that Isley, Rigardo and Dauf never got along. Not even when they were warriors. That means that at least, Isley, Rigardo, Dauff and Gaheh were from the same Generation.
Zato: Do you know what else was never clearly stated in the manga? That Rigardo was number 2. It's written in the databooks but the manga never said it.
Now, do you guys think that there migth have been some females in the First Generation? What made me think of this is that there was at least one female AB in Isley's army.
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-16, 08:21
One of the ABs that was in Isley's army, someone called Gaheh, said that Isley, Rigardo and Dauf never got along. Not even when they were warriors. That means that at least, Isley, Rigardo, Dauff and Gaheh were from the same Generation.
Zato: Do you know what else was never clearly stated in the manga? That Rigardo was number 2. It's written in the databooks but the manga never said it.
Now, do you guys think that there migth have been some females in the First Generation? What made me think of this is that there was at least one female AB in Isley's army.
Hmmm, looks like I'll have to read through Claymore again as well.
I don't doubt there were also female warriors. Otherwise, if the organization recruited only male warriors like any traditional army, they never would've figured out that female warriors are better suited for adapting a Yoma's flesh compared to male warriors.
MisterJB
2009-08-16, 08:22
The real question is how long has the organization actually been carrying out experiments to create warriors capable of countering the power of the demon kin? I'm pretty sure that they've been around for a couple of centuries because if I remember correctly, Riful clearly says that she's some centuries old.
Miria said that the war in the Continent split into two different sides a century ago. She also clearly said that the Organization's side started creating Awakened Beings only after this War began because their enemies were using Dragon-kins.
So, the first Claymore was created 100 years ago.
Riful never said anything about her age.
Now, do you guys think that there migth have been some females in the First Generation?
If there were, i feel bad for them.:upset: Imagine when the males started to awaken :eek: what a gangbang :heh:
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-16, 09:09
Miria said that the war in the Continent split into two different sides a century ago. She also clearly said that the Organization's side started creating Awakened Beings only after this War began because their enemies were using Dragon-kins.
So, the first Claymore was created 100 years ago.
Riful never said anything about her age.
Yeah, I figured that a while ago :rolleyes:
Shiek927
2009-08-16, 09:52
Hopefully Cyclone, Sagara or somebody can relook at the Databooks; It's funny how everybody seems to have this idea that they are part of the First Generation. I find it hard to believe that everybody's been wrong all this time; it's definitely written somewhere.
As I mentioned, there's pretty strong (but not conclusive) evidence that there was only one male generation, which would place Isley et. al. in the first generation by default. I certainly tend to believe that's the case.
For the rest, it's not hard to see how a misconception like that could spread. It's plausible and it fits nicely with what else is known about the story, so it only takes a single misstatement that gets believed and repeated. This is the same way politics works.
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-16, 11:38
As I mentioned, there's pretty strong (but not conclusive) evidence that there was only one male generation, which would place Isley et. al. in the first generation by default. I certainly tend to believe that's the case.
For the rest, it's not hard to see how a misconception like that could spread. It's plausible and it fits nicely with what else is known about the story, so it only takes a single misstatement that gets believed and repeated. This is the same way politics works.
I, for one, never thought Isley's generation, that being the first one, was the only male generation there was. I strongly believe there were a few other generations following it that included male warriors, although not that many. Isley definitely belonged to the first generation of Claymores, as I explained before. It's true that there's no definite evidence pointing this out, but it does seem more than likely when you consider how long the organization's been around and the fact that Isley was the only male Abyssal there was. Both of these, especially the latter, imply that Isley was the top of the first generation.
Let's say for argument's sake that Isley's generation was not the first. The current number 1 in this generation A is on the verge of awakening. Feeling that his time as a human was nearing an end, he gave his black card to someone close to him, most likely the number 2. Chances are that the number 2 is also a male warrior. The chances of the number 2 actually besting the number 1 in combat are slim to none because their ranks denote their strength with respect to each other. That being said, it is doubtful that the very first number 1 could've been defeated by anyone, especially at the moment of awakening. On top of that, male warriors awaken very easily. For this reason, I believe there is no other logical explanation to which generation Isley belonged to. Isley's generation of Claymores had to be the very first one. And if we consider that Rigaldo was the number 2, it's quite possible he also awakened if such a scenario really did take place. And we know there is a large difference in their powers.
No offense, Freedan, but it's posts like that one that illustrate the point I was trying to make. Everything you stated is, at best, conjecture.
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-16, 12:24
No offense, Freedan, but it's posts like that one that illustrate the point I was trying to make. Everything you stated is, at best, conjecture.
You're right, it is conjecture, so I didn't take any offense. It's only because there isn't any solid evidence that clearly states that Isley did belong to the first generation that I said what I said. I do want to see if the databooks have anything to say about it. It's up to you if you want to take my word for it or not, but I'm not gonna say I'm definitely correct. I know I could be wrong and anything can be.
Shiek927
2009-08-16, 16:03
If there were, i feel bad for them.:upset: Imagine when the males started to awaken :eek: what a gangbang :heh:
Impossible; we already know from what Galatea said about Riful that females didn't come until her generation. Until them, it's implied that all generations have been fully Male.
Does that mean however that Riful's generation was purely female? or it simply introduced Females and their were still some males? Hard to say but I'm going with the first option. I don't think their ever was a generation with both Male and Female warriors.
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-16, 16:30
Impossible; we already know from what Galatea said about Riful that females didn't come until her generation. Until them, it's implied that all generations have been fully Male.
Does that mean however that Riful's generation was purely female? or it simply introduced Females and their were still some males? Hard to say but I'm going with the first option. I don't think their ever was a generation with both Male and Female warriors.
I would think that perhaps the first generation was made up entirely of male warriors, but I do believe that at some point, female warriors were introduced into the organization at a time where male warriors were still fighting the Yoma. What Galatea meant by female generation, in my opinion, is a generation where a female warrior rose to the rank of number 1 among all Claymores. That was Riful. But I highly doubt that the organization had one generation made exclusively of male warriors and the next was made exclusively of female warriors. At some stage, the ranks of the organization's Claymores had to have included both male and female to know that compared to male warriors, the number of cases and the ease with which female warriors awakened were much less than their male counterparts. That was when the organization decided to recruit exclusively female warriors.
Shiek927
2009-08-16, 16:42
At some stage, the ranks of the organization's Claymores had to have included both male and female to know that compared to male warriors, the number of cases and the ease with which female warriors awakened were much less than their male counterparts. That was when the organization decided to recruit exclusively female warriors.
Not necessarily. If they've had several generations of Male Warriors and they all ended up awakening, it shouldn't be hard to figure out the reason is because they are Males and not anything specific with the person.
huh? but they'd only realize that only the males awaken once they've seen that not all females do. Otherwise they simply might have thought that their experiments had failed for unknown reasons. So based on that very simple but hard to ignore logic, there must have been a purely male generation, a single mixed generation or at least some individual experiments with females inbetween and then they obviously switched to 100% female ?!?! :D
Shiek927
2009-08-16, 18:12
huh? but they'd only realize that only the males awaken once they've seen that not all females do. Otherwise they simply might have thought that their experiments had failed for unknown reasons. So based on that very simple but hard to ignore logic, there must have been a purely male generation, a single mixed generation or at least some individual experiments with females inbetween and then they obviously switched to 100% female ?!?! :D
It just seems like a simple conclusion; unless the Organization are extremely bias to having Male warriors and Male only, looking at gender doesn't seem like a hard thing to figure out or at least theorize it.
Hopefully Cyclone, Sagara or somebody can relook at the Databooks; It's funny how everybody seems to have this idea that they are part of the First Generation. I find it hard to believe that everybody's been wrong all this time; it's definitely written somewhere.
The 3rd databook has Isley, Rigaldo and Duff, labeled as numbers 1,2, and 3 respectively of "intial male generation(s)*"(shoki otoko jidai).
Riful is in a box all by her lonesome, labelled "First Generation (Riful's era)" (shodai (Riful jidai)).
Raphaela and Luciella are labelled "Former Generation (Luciella's era)" (kyuu sedai (Luciella jidai)).
Next is the ghost's generation labelled "current generation" and the newbies labelled "new generation".
* remember - Japanese nouns are not necessarily singular. It could be plural.
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-17, 00:11
It just seems like a simple conclusion; unless the Organization are extremely bias to having Male warriors and Male only, looking at gender doesn't seem like a hard thing to figure out or at least theorize it.
Theorizing the advantages of of having female warriors would not be very difficult, but I highly doubt the organization would've waited for all the male warriors to die off before starting to recruit female ones, especially when there was no evidence to back up their theory. I suspect there was a time where both male and female warriors fought side by side so that the organization could compare the two and prove this theory.
The 3rd databook has Isley, Rigaldo and Duff, labeled as numbers 1,2, and 3 respectively of "intial male generation(s)*"(shoki otoko jidai).
Riful is in a box all by her lonesome, labelled "First Generation (Riful's era)" (shodai (Riful jidai)).
Raphaela and Luciella are labelled "Former Generation (Luciella's era)" (kyuu sedai (Luciella jidai)).
Next is the ghost's generation labelled "current generation" and the newbies labelled "new generation".
* remember - Japanese nouns are not necessarily singular. It could be plural.
So even the databook isn't very clear about where Isley was, but it does appear that his generation came before Riful's.
The 3rd databook has Isley, Rigaldo and Duff, labeled as numbers 1,2, and 3 respectively of "intial male generation(s)*"(shoki otoko jidai).
Riful is in a box all by her lonesome, labelled "First Generation (Riful's era)" (shodai (Riful jidai)).
Raphaela and Luciella are labelled "Former Generation (Luciella's era)" (kyuu sedai (Luciella jidai)).
Next is the ghost's generation labelled "current generation" and the newbies labelled "new generation".
* remember - Japanese nouns are not necessarily singular. It could be plural.
Irrespective of the plurality issue, it strikes me that the databook may be painting with an overly broad brush here. Which inclines me to take it with a grain of salt.
We know Clare is the youngest of the ghosts by enough of a margin to draw comment. We know the Org. is (according to Rubel via Miria) roughly one hundred years old. We know Teresa was part of the "77th Generation." This indicates there's about a year of space between generations (this seems to fit with the apparently high turnover of the lower ranks, as well). Putting all of this together, on the face of things at least Clare should not be part of the same generation as the rest of the ghosts. (Actually, I wonder if this isn't exactly the plurality issue popping up again; would "current generations" be an appropriate reading?)
At any rate, what exactly a generation of warriors entails has never been explicitly stated in the manga; yet another reason I find all of this speculation going on rather silly. Here's what we do know about the males:
Virtually all of them awakened. Only a single number one (Isley) awoke. Ergo, in the era of males, there was only a single number one. Likewise, it seems likely (but is unconfirmed) that only a single number two and number three awoke. Thus, it seems likely that there was only a single male number two and number three. Of the lower ranks, we know little.
Whether this means that there were multiple generations of males and the career of Isley (and Rigardo and Duph) happened to span all of them (plausible, since we know that many of the girls last for more than one generation) or whether it implies that only a single generation of males was created is undetermined.
Hopefully Alicia or whoever got impaled. No way she could see those things coming when she's concentrating on Duff.
Hopefully Alicia or whoever got impaled. No way she could see those things coming when she's concentrating on Duff.
Yeah.. that will be fun !!!
Beth gets impaled and Alicia awakening becomes uncontrollable.. brilliant
Shiek927
2009-08-17, 09:50
At any rate, what exactly a generation of warriors entails has never been explicitly stated in the manga; yet another reason I find all of this speculation going on rather silly. Here's what we do know about the males:
Virtually all of them awakened. Only a single number one (Isley) awoke. Ergo, in the era of males, there was only a single number one. Likewise, it seems likely (but is unconfirmed) that only a single number two and number three awoke. Thus, it seems likely that there was only a single male number two and number three. Of the lower ranks, we know little.
Whether this means that there were multiple generations of males and the career of Isley (and Rigardo and Duph) happened to span all of them (plausible, since we know that many of the girls last for more than one generation) or whether it implies that only a single generation of males was created is undetermined.
Wouldn't necessarily call all this "silly". Unless somebody has another topic of discussion, you got another idea to pass the time?
MisterJB
2009-08-17, 10:38
Yes, this is a meaningless discussion. What we should be discussing is: Who has longer legs? Miria, Clare, Galatea or Alicia? My vote is for Miria
Yes, this is a meaningless discussion. What we should be discussing is: Who has longer legs? Miria, Clare, Galatea or Alicia? My vote is for Miria
I see we're back on some more serious topics :nod: Good job JB
Hmm... :eyebrow: ... I will have to say Galatea :D
Galatea33
2009-08-17, 14:25
Galatea~* AGREES :D
*high five arkham
Everyone can see from the way the nun dress ripped apart ;)
Yes..yes...the nun....it was the NUN!
SHE did this to me!!
And now... i'm....HORNY FOR CLAYMORE LEGS! MU HA HA *goes crazy
zato_1one
2009-08-17, 14:36
In my opinion, the speculation about there is only one male generation or Isley may be in the last male generation before female generation make sense when we consider the distribution of AO power. If Isley has awakened before Riful for many years then there is a question. Why didn't he destroy the org a long time ago because he was the most powerful and no one could confront him at that time? If the time gap isn't that long then it may have a chance that Riful has encountered him. And it caused her to awaken.
Why? Heh... I asked that question 1 year ago or so. And: why the North of all regions? Even Duff knows that the North was the worst.
zato_1one
2009-08-17, 15:44
That might be because the gap was not that long between Isley awakened and Riful awakened. It might happen between the transition of the generation. And who said that the north is the worst? The weather may be the worst but at least it wasn't short for food which was good enough.
Why? Heh... I asked that question 1 year ago or so.
*lolz*
still, lets ask it again, it's an interesting question, after all she said "she knows that man best of all" ...which makes you kinda wonder...
MisterJB
2009-08-17, 15:51
Gangsta Spanksta gave me once a very good answer to that question. We should ask him when he appears.
zato_1one
2009-08-17, 15:55
after all she said "she knows that man best of all" ...which makes you kinda wonder...
This also gives the possibility that Riful might have already known Isley since when they were still Claymore.
damn. just realized I ment the other question:D
"If riful awakend fighting him" ... is the one that interests me...although I guess that might be connected to Isley attacking the org if it is true...
edit:
This also gives the possibility that Riful might have already known Isley since when they were still Claymore.
not neccesarily... there's that sayin that got kinda lame since matrix2: "You only really know somebody once you have fought him" ... So maybe she knows him from that alone....
dunno... it's all in the realms of murky speculation anyways :heh:
MisterJB
2009-08-17, 15:58
This also gives the possibility that Riful might have already known Isley since when they were still Claymore.
That seems impossible.
If Isley and Riful were Claymores at the same time, why would the Org give the second spot to Rigardo?
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-17, 16:14
That seems impossible.
If Isley and Riful were Claymores at the same thime, why would the Org give the second spot to Rigardo?
Exactly. And considering Duff was also in their generation, I find it hard to believe that Riful, if they had been in the same generation, once had a spot lower than even Duff. Riful's generation must have come long after Isley's.
Shiek927
2009-08-17, 16:34
Their is an unknown relationship between Riful and Isley but if their is anything clear, they weren't part of the same generation; Galatea confirmed it, the databooks confirmed it.
Her words however, about knowing his "true nature" imply they at least personally know eachother.
Her words however, about knowing his "true nature" imply they at least personally know eachother.
See, there's still something that Riful can contribute to the story of the manga. So, she's not going to die. ;)
clarakiss~
2009-08-17, 17:06
it's obvious riful had a thing for isley and wanted him by her side but settled with dauf instead. riful grew fond of dauf though, through all the years they've been together. most of you may disagree with this but this is how i see it from my point of view. ^^
Shiek927
2009-08-17, 17:23
it's obvious riful had a thing for isley and wanted him by her side but settled with dauf instead. riful grew fond of dauf though, through all the years they've been together. most of you may disagree with this but this is how i see it from my point of view. ^^
:heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh::heh:
I'm sorry Clarakiss, but that made me laugh :D:D
Riful had a thing for Isley of all people? You're making this sound like a soap-opera. I doubt the reason she hates him and wanted to kill him has anything to do with romance or jealously :p
Of the 47 Male Claymores of the male generation who became AB's(if you believe his whole army encompassed the only male generation in existence), 27 were his Army and supposedly the strongest soldiers. The remaining 20 seemed to go off own their own(like the tentacled AB) and do their own thing. In Dauf's case, he ended up somehow with Riful and, impressed with his strength at the time and high rank(not to mention being a male), not to mention being strong enough to "withstand her", she allowed him to join her.
Of course she likes him to a degree, it's what happens with time. Still, she probably wishes she could have landed with someone else, at least with more brains.
See, there's still something that Riful can contribute to the story of the manga. So, she's not going to die.
How so?
Riful, although clever, has been wrong from time to time. I'm not exactly fond of Isley but the words "true nature" imply to me that he's not a nice or trustworthy person by any means(and he wasn't).....but if his "family" is proof of anything, he's not like that, or at least wasn't when he died.
MisterJB
2009-08-17, 17:32
I developed a theory that Jean and Rigardo are long lost twins/she is his daugther/ she is his mother/wathever. Now, you might ask "Lulz JB, how can you claim such a nonsense?"
Well my fellow animesuki-er, here are the proofs.
http://i25.tinypic.com/23jib93.png
BtW, that's totally Miria he is looking at. Coincidence? I think not.
Anyway.
http://i26.tinypic.com/259d4k9.png
The resemblance is uncanny.
http://i32.tinypic.com/xc15hs.png
http://i25.tinypic.com/1zvphjn.png
Now, I'm well aware that resemblance alone is not enough to proof a theory that shakes the foundations of the Continent itself - despite the fact that they are both dead and no one thinks about them anymore - and maybe even the Mainland.
Well, my second proof is definitive and after seeing it, you'll agree with me, of that I'm sure.
http://i27.tinypic.com/331i0q1.png
http://i26.tinypic.com/ictlq9.png
Can anyone doubt it now?
MisterJB
2009-08-17, 17:33
Of the 47 Male Claymores of the male generation who became AB's(if you believe his whole army encompassed the only male generation in existence), 27 were his Army and supposedly the strongest soldiers.
There was at least one female (not Priscilla), maybe two.
Shiek927
2009-08-17, 17:43
There was at least one female (not Priscilla), maybe two.
Which goes against the theory that his whole army was a single generation and probably a collection from multiple ones.
MisterJB, I doubt your theory just as much as I doubt Helen and the Bandit are related. Sorry, just because Yagi can't think of new hairstyles doesn't prove anything.
MisterJB
2009-08-17, 17:46
Which goes against the theory that his whole army was a single generation and probably a collection from multiple ones.
Or maybe there were females on the First Generation.
MisterJB, I doubt your theory just as much as I doubt Helen and the Bandit are related. Sorry, just because Yagi can't think of new hairstyles doesn't prove anything.
Dude, it's a joke. It's supossed to laugh at it and move on.
Ok, it's not a good joke but it's still a joke.
Lol at you thinking I was serious.
zato_1one
2009-08-17, 17:52
I didn't mean that Riful and Isley were working as Claymore at the same time. Riful might be just a trainee when Isley was a Claymore. I did said that the event might happen between the transition of the generation right?
How so?
Riful, although clever, has been wrong from time to time. I'm not exactly fond of Isley but the words "true nature" imply to me that he's not a nice or trustworthy person by any means(and he wasn't).....but if his "family" is proof of anything, he's not like that, or at least wasn't when he died.
It was a joke. :p On a second thought, that doesn't mean she couldn't fill us in with a firsthand information on what really happened between her and Isley, though, once she survives the fight with Alicia, the feeders and the offspring... after Dauf's death. Considering Yagi's modus operandi, it will be more likely we'll discover it, if ever, in a flashback.
I think clarakiss is onto something. I admit I haven't read what has been written in the Isley & Priscilla thread recently so I apologize if that's been mentioned there. Imagine that Isley might have been the claymore who killed the yoma that exterminated her family and ended up saving her. Once brought to the Org, she might have asked about that man and started to grow affection for him and wanted to become as stong and goog as he was. But one day, the knight of her dreams awakened and she wasn't able to see him anymore around the Org... And when she awakened too and met up with him again, he rejected her. Poor Riful. :upset:
That might be because the gap was not that long between Isley awakened and Riful awakened. It might happen between the transition of the generation. And who said that the north is the worst? The weather may be the worst but at least it wasn't short for food which was good enough.
It would be very reasonable if the gap is 1 month. Otherwise, I don't see why he wouldn't destroy the ORG back then.
"oh great sage. Tell us where to settle. Tell us where our people can make a glorious beginning."
"Go to Alaska."
.....
"He's a witch. Burn him!"
Who said the North didn't have enough food. It is still the worst; good enough doesn't make it better. How can such an ambitious character settle for "good enough?"
Shiek927
2009-08-17, 21:17
Or maybe there were females on the First Generation.
No way, can't be; remember, the first female generation was Riful's; I think the overall idea was that all generations were fully Male until she came along.
Interesting theory/story Camilla; it's a reminder of how little we truly know about Riful or any of the "antagonists", or alot of the characters for that matter.
I hope, if not in the manga itself, then afterwards we get a history and an account of every character. Might fill in some gaps.
Dude, it's a joke. It's supossed to laugh at it and move on.
Ok, it's not a good joke but it's still a joke.
Lol at you thinking I was serious.
I couldn't tell, wasn't the funniest joke on the planet :rolleyes::heh:
zato_1one
2009-08-17, 21:31
You should consider that you didn't know when and where Isley awakened. What did he feel? Did he hate the org so much that he wanted to destroy it? Did he have an army of AB at that time or was it just only himself? Also don't place your own feeling and decide that he should do this and this. It might actually be something that he himself didn't prefer to do. You don't like the north but that doesn't have anything to do with Isley at all.
MisterJB
2009-08-17, 22:04
Imagine that Isley might have been the claymore who killed the yoma that exterminated her family and ended up saving her. Once brought to the Org, she might have asked about that man and started to grow affection for him and wanted to become as stong and goog as he was. But one day, the knight of her dreams awakened and she wasn't able to see him anymore around the Org... And when she awakened too and met up with him again, he rejected her. Poor Riful. :upset: Riful was like Priscilla, then. She also wanted to play horsey with Isley
But Isley liked the South!
Right after his awakening, his natural instincts should tell him to go where food is plentiful. And where did he go? T3h North! Huh? As ambitious as he was, Isley must have gone to the North because there were many oil wells there.
AS for the Org, Isley said he wanted to control, didn't he. The easiest way to achieve it is to do something with the Org, the only thing that can threaten his position. He didn't do anything. Then after 100+ years when things got tough, he desired to take over the Island and took great risk in doing so. That made no sense whatsoever. Naked Prissy must be so sexy that she awakened Isley's natural instincts me think :eyebrow:
Shiek927
2009-08-17, 22:37
When it comes to him choosing the North, all I can say is this(piece of a previous post I wrote):
"When it comes to slavery, I don't know exactly why the genders go the way they are, but it is curious: Girls go to the East, where Staff HQ is located, and obviously all current warriors are women. Boys are sent to the North, which was ruled by Isley, a male, who was leader of his army of first-generation warriors who were all also Men. I refuse to believe this as mere coincidence."
I can't help but laugh when i watch these.
http://www4.funimation.com/video/?page=video&v=542
http://www4.funimation.com/video/?page=video&v=548
http://www4.funimation.com/video/?page=video&v=553
I am so glad I wasn't introduced to the Claymore Series via FUNimation.
zato_1one
2009-08-18, 00:07
When it comes to him choosing the North, all I can say is this(piece of a previous post I wrote):
"When it comes to slavery, I don't know exactly why the genders go the way they are, but it is curious: Girls go to the East, where Staff HQ is located, and obviously all current warriors are women. Boys are sent to the North, which was ruled by Isley, a male, who was leader of his army of first-generation warriors who were all also Men. I refuse to believe this as mere coincidence."
That's what I thought too. And the one who like the south is Prissy.
sonotme_9FedriqSama
2009-08-18, 04:24
I developed a theory that Jean and Rigardo are long lost twins/she is his daugther/ she is his mother/wathever. Now, you might ask "Lulz JB, how can you claim such a nonsense?"
Well my fellow animesuki-er, here are the proofs.
http://i25.tinypic.com/23jib93.png
BtW, that's totally Miria he is looking at. Coincidence? I think not.
Anyway.
http://i26.tinypic.com/259d4k9.png
The resemblance is uncanny.
http://i32.tinypic.com/xc15hs.png
http://i25.tinypic.com/1zvphjn.png
Now, I'm well aware that resemblance alone is not enough to proof a theory that shakes the foundations of the Continent itself - despite the fact that they are both dead and no one thinks about them anymore - and maybe even the Mainland.
Well, my second proof is definitive and after seeing it, you'll agree with me, of that I'm sure.
http://i27.tinypic.com/331i0q1.png
http://i26.tinypic.com/ictlq9.png
Can anyone doubt it now?
its been a long time since I was on this forum....didn't think I would get this busy and tired as not to sit on internet for about a week...
any ways good observation JB...But I don't think they are related...the gap in their generation is huge...plus its Nagi-sensei's art style which makes them look similar
Although I have a question why do everybody assume that whoever are similar in looks have to be related in someway....even in real life there are ppl who rememble you...(I have seen person who looked like me face-wise...but was way taller) and we weren't related in anyway :) infact he was from different county.
MisterJB
2009-08-18, 04:38
its been a long time since I was on this forum....didn't think I would get this busy and tired as not to sit on internet for about a week...
any ways good observation JB...But I don't think they are related...the gap in their generation is huge...plus its Nagi-sensei's art style which makes them look similar
Although I have a question why do everybody assume that whoever are similar in looks have to be related in someway....even in real life there are ppl who rememble you...(I have seen person who looked like me face-wise...but was way taller) and we weren't related in anyway :) infact he was from different county.
I wasn't serious. I tought that because a lot of people think that those who look alike are related in some way, it would be funny to point out two people that look alike and yet, it's impossible that they are related in any way.
Riful was like Priscilla, then. She also wanted to play horsey with Isley
And when things didn't go as planned, she tried with Rigaldo but, unfortunately for her, was allergic to his fur... :heh: Then Dauf happened to materialize in front of her and, you know, the others were all weaklings. That's an oldie.
Priscilla only wanted to satisfy her hunger and reunite with her family. Better not think of all the manipulations that man might have been capable of. :upset:
On to more serious things. After the time-skip I wished the remaining AOs were put in the know about the war in the continent and joined forces with the Ghosts against the Organization. Granted, this way the manga would have ended earlier...
Shiek927
2009-08-18, 08:55
You know, looking at Riful deducing "Isley is dead" is a little weird seeing how she seems to forget Priscilla. She knows nothing of their relationship other then Priscilla will protect him, but with a look the AE's. she knows he's dead and she's not. How? doesn't she at least wonder where she is?
I know she's clever about these sorts of things, but it's a little weird that she figured it out so quickly and yet seems to forget what happened to the bigger threat.
Galatea33
2009-08-18, 09:08
@ Shiek
So there must be something happened in the 7 years skip that even known by Riful, perhaps like "The agonizing story of Isley & family?" :heh:
The rumors spread hard then :heh:
When it comes to him choosing the North, all I can say is this(piece of a previous post I wrote):
"When it comes to slavery, I don't know exactly why the genders go the way they are, but it is curious: Girls go to the East, where Staff HQ is located, and obviously all current warriors are women. Boys are sent to the North, which was ruled by Isley, a male, who was leader of his army of first-generation warriors who were all also Men. I refuse to believe this as mere coincidence."
Now. You're putting the cart before the ox. Unless there is another Isley who was ruling the North and then Isley the awakened No.1 took over... The North had an army because he created it. He didn't choose the North because there was an army there.
That's what I thought too. And the one who like the south is Prissy.
If the fight with Luciela indicated anything, it was Isley's liking the South. Prissy, in the other hand, is a Southerner die-hard. If he could start over and choose between the 2 regions, I see no reason why he chose the North.
Slash_Emperor
2009-08-18, 09:39
You know, looking at Riful deducing "Isley is dead" is a little weird seeing how she seems to forget Priscilla. She knows nothing of their relationship other then Priscilla will protect him, but with a look the AE's. she knows he's dead and she's not. How? doesn't she at least wonder where she is?
I know she's clever about these sorts of things, but it's a little weird that she figured it out so quickly and yet seems to forget what happened to the bigger threat.
Uh, she deduced Isley was dead because the Organization sent Alicia and Beth against her. It's sort of like this:
-When there were both Isley and Riful, while the Organization only had Alicia, they wouldn't send them against Riful because Isley could trainwreck an exhausted Alicia and the Organization.
-The other way around also stands, because if Alicia and Beth went after Isley Riful could do as she wished.
-Alicia and Beth went after Riful - so somehow, the Organization must have insurance that Isley won't attack.
-The only predictable Isley is a dead Isley.
-Alicia and Beth can't have killed Isley.
-The Abyss Feeders have the potential to kill an Abyssal One without much ruckus in a way that Riful wouldn't be able to detect - and even if she did, the Organization still has Alicia.
Ergo, logical deduction - the Abyss Feeders killed Isley.
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-18, 09:52
Uh, she deduced Isley was dead because the Organization sent Alicia and Beth against her. It's sort of like this:
-When there were both Isley and Riful, while the Organization only had Alicia, they wouldn't send them against Riful because Isley could trainwreck an exhausted Alicia and the Organization.
-The other way around also stands, because if Alicia and Beth went after Isley Riful could do as she wished.
-Alicia and Beth went after Riful - so somehow, the Organization must have insurance that Isley won't attack.
-The only predictable Isley is a dead Isley.
-Alicia and Beth can't have killed Isley.
-The Abyss Feeders have the potential to kill an Abyssal One without much ruckus in a way that Riful wouldn't be able to detect - and even if she did, the Organization still has Alicia.
Ergo, logical deduction - the Abyss Feeders killed Isley.
QFT. I think that was in fact a fairly simple logical deduction. Considering the organization put forward all their elite forces, those being the feeders and the twins, the organization would have no line of defense against Isley. So the only reason the organization would feel no need to defend themselves against Isley is because there is no Isley to defend itself from. Thus, Isley is dead.
Shiek927
2009-08-18, 10:11
Now. You're putting the cart before the ox. Unless there is another Isley who was ruling the North and then Isley the awakened No.1 took over... The North had an army because he created it. He didn't choose the North because there was an army there.
Illney..................what the heck are you talking about?
All I said, since you guys were talking about why Isley ruled the North, was that boys who are taken as slaves are sent to the North where Isley, who is a male and has an army made up of mostly men. It's very curious considering we know the slave trade and Organization most likely work together, and they sent Girls to the East, which is also where Staff is located and all warriors now are women.
You're not making any sense, it's like your confusing yourself :heh:
---
Slash Emperor and Freedan, you both completely missed the point.
Isley isn't what I'm discussing, it's why Riful didn't mention Priscilla at all. Riful is on of the few that knows that Priscilla is the true bigger threat, not Isley, yet she fails to bring her up or question the idea of how Isley could be dead if Priscilla is supposed to be with him. In short, she completely leaves Priscilla out of her equation which is weird.
It's just strange; we know she's right and the AE's did kill Isley, but the sudden accuracy of deduction is strange since we have to assume Riful didn't know what the family went through for the past seven years. The only way it makes sense is that Riful wasn't thinking on Priscilla at all because she knows she seperated from Isley....but how could she know that if she just figured out right now that he died and just discovered the AE's for the first time?
Priscilla is a variable that she completely seems to forget and/or ignore, it's like she never was there at all, and the fact that she really wasn't there when he died makes the whole thing even more surreal and bizarre.
Awakened
2009-08-18, 11:00
The fact that Riful is been attacked by the Org's strongest weapon is proof that Isley is dead. Somewhere in the manga it said that if one faction attack another, the victor would be weaken and be venerable to an attack from the faction that was not initially involved in the fight.
If Isley is alive and the Org attacks Riful, Isley would be able to easily destroy the Org because their greatest weapons (Alicia) would be injured or low on yoki.
Why did the Org wait till now to attack?
What changed after 100 years?
evil_kenshin
2009-08-18, 11:55
The fact that Riful is been attacked by the Org's strongest weapon is proof that Isley is dead. Somewhere in the manga it said that if one faction attack another, the victor would be weaken and be venerable to an attack from the faction that was not initially involved in the fight.
If Isley is alive and the Org attacks Riful, Isley would be able to easily destroy the Org because their greatest weapons (Alicia) would be injured or low on yoki.
Why did the Org wait till now to attack?
What changed after 100 years?
more than likely it is because it took them this long to figure out a way to kill Isley. Isley was always the biggest hurdle to the organisation even compared to the other abyssal's. Not only due to his strength but his cunningness aswell (getting Priscilla on his side, raising an army etc).
Once Isley was dead, and with Lucelia dead as far as the org knew; it left Riful who was the 2nd strongest among the 3 abyssal's.
Even if Alica & Beth died but took out Riful aswell; the organisation would still be in a fairly safe position.
Illney..................what the heck are you talking about?
All I said, since you guys were talking about why Isley ruled the North, was that boys who are taken as slaves are sent to the North where Isley, who is a male and has an army made up of mostly men. It's very curious considering we know the slave trade and Organization most likely work together, and they sent Girls to the East, which is also where Staff is located and all warriors now are women.
You're not making any sense, it's like your confusing yourself :heh:
---
So you are saying Isley went to the North to open a slave trade route :uhoh:
Isley, right after awakening, went to the North. Why? And if in the beginning the Org only used male, was there any need to send girls to the East? They started to use girls because the experiments failed, indication of which was Isley's generation awakening. Right at that moment, there wasn't any slave trade, if there was it should've been "girls to Rebona and boys to the East."
UNLESS the Org didn't start in the East but in the North. Now that's... entertaining. Old research facilities are yummy :)
irvinethearcher
2009-08-18, 12:34
Riful said once that she herself knows best of what the man in the north is capable off and that he is not that "warmhearted" than she is :heh:
So it is not unlikely that both knew each other even before they awakened and isley is first generation riful is second. Riful and Isley were perhaps old rivals?
zato_1one
2009-08-18, 12:44
The org's policy just changed after the North war. The org normally didn't want to deal with AB. Let alone the AO.
If the fight with Luciela indicated anything, it was Isley's liking the South. Prissy, in the other hand, is a Southerner die-hard. If he could start over and choose between the 2 regions, I see no reason why he chose the North.
Isley likes to please Prissy. And why don't you think that he liked the North at that time? He might liked cold weather. :eyespin:
But his food don't like cold much. Besides, he can adjust his body temperature, so that is a non-factor.
And for the fight, I was talking about his deal with Luciela not to fight on AB form (well, at least, initially). If he didn't like the South, he had no reason to do so. Most of the fight Isley go 100% pretty fast. In this, he restrained himself and thus wasted time in the process (hat if Luciela did not break the promise first?). Remember, he devised the war just to delay the Org and ,more importantly, Riful. It made no sense whatsoever if he ruined that just to be chivalry to the chick he was gonna (or planing) to kill anyway.
Shiek927
2009-08-18, 13:05
So you are saying Isley went to the North to open a slave trade route :uhoh:
Isley, right after awakening, went to the North. Why? And if in the beginning the Org only used male, was there any need to send girls to the East? They started to use girls because the experiments failed, indication of which was Isley's generation awakening. Right at that moment, there wasn't any slave trade, if there was it should've been "girls to Rebona and boys to the East."
UNLESS the Org didn't start in the East but in the North. Now that's... entertaining. Old research facilities are yummy :)
.....Illney, when I wrote my post, I wasn't even intending to start a debate. I was just throwing that particular point and reminding everybody of it. I don't even know why we're talking about this.
But the last part does raise something which I've begun to believe in: that their used to be a Organization facility in the North alongside the one in the East which is now the main HQ. We've never actually seen Isley's northern "lair", only the house he used with Raki and Priscilla(unless that's supposed to be it), so it's possible this facility was his lair which housed his army.
zato_1one
2009-08-18, 13:27
And for the fight, I was talking about his deal with Luciela not to fight on AB form (well, at least, initially). If he didn't like the South, he had no reason to do so. Most of the fight Isley go 100% pretty fast. In this, he restrained himself and thus wasted time in the process (hat if Luciela did not break the promise first?). Remember, he devised the war just to delay the Org and ,more importantly, Riful. It made no sense whatsoever if he ruined that just to be chivalry to the chick he was gonna (or planing) to kill anyway.
And it didn't indicate anything that he didn't like the North. ;)
He was not very gentle with it :)
Like you said, the North is "enough." For such an ambitious character, there can't be "enough." The South is way better.
zato_1one
2009-08-18, 13:48
That was also because he didn't want to destroy Prissy's homeland. He may like the South at this time but it doesn't mean that he didn't like the North at the time he was awakened. ;)
And for a true ambitious and greedy character, the entire island is way better.
Slash_Emperor
2009-08-18, 14:27
Riful not mentioning Priscilla as if she was not a factor at all was because... Priscilla was not a factor, at all. The Abyss Feeders killed Isley, and that was all Riful was concerned about. Riful's sole concern was Isley having such a powerful Awakened Being by his side. Priscilla alone doesn't pose much of a threat to Riful who can simply avoid her, as she is mentally unstable and her power has no focus. Riful doesn't really care about the giant statue now that it's out of her control - in much the same way, she wouldn't even consider Priscilla since she knows she can escape from her even if she goes on a rampage. All that mattered was that the Abyss Feeders killed Isley, which is more of a concern to Riful than some raging Awakened Being.
Not to mention, if Priscilla was going on a rampage, Riful would've known - since she stayed quiet all those years, coupled with Isley's demise, Riful might've deduced she was dead.
That was also because he didn't want to destroy Prissy's homeland. He may like the South at this time but it doesn't mean that he didn't like the North at the time he was awakened. ;)
And for a true ambitious and greedy character, the entire island is way better.
If he didn't want to destroy Prissy homeland :uhoh: Common, he was not that into it.
Yes, the entire island is better. Then why not take it when he can. Why wait for 100 years?
Shiek927
2009-08-18, 14:51
Riful not mentioning Priscilla as if she was not a factor at all was because... Priscilla was not a factor, at all. The Abyss Feeders killed Isley, and that was all Riful was concerned about. Riful's sole concern was Isley having such a powerful Awakened Being by his side. Priscilla alone doesn't pose much of a threat to Riful who can simply avoid her, as she is mentally unstable and her power has no focus. Riful doesn't really care about the giant statue now that it's out of her control - in much the same way, she wouldn't even consider Priscilla since she knows she can escape from her even if she goes on a rampage. All that mattered was that the Abyss Feeders killed Isley, which is more of a concern to Riful than some raging Awakened Being.
Not to mention, if Priscilla was going on a rampage, Riful would've known - since she stayed quiet all those years, coupled with Isley's demise, Riful might've deduced she was dead.
Wow, somebody actually answered me :heh:
However:
Priscilla alone doesn't pose much of a threat to Riful who can simply avoid her, as she is mentally unstable and her power has no focus.
How does Riful know that? We know that, but Riful only met Priscilla one time and that was after the Luciella battle. All she knows is, is that Isley "submitted" to her which is the truth beneath the spread rumors. By all means, she has no reason to suspect she isn't any better mentally then anybody else.
And if Priscilla went on a rampage, how would she know? She only knew because of the spread rumors. Isley's been on his own rampage across the south before he died, taking with him half of all the towns, and she didn't hear anything. It's only when Isley began spreading the false rumors that Riful ever heard anything.
Priscilla is an important factor because she's the main reason she's tried to hard in her Raciella "project". She's a much bigger concern then Isley who is more or less just as strong as her. Without Isley, Priscilla is still invincible, but without Priscilla, Isley is back to square one, the same way as Riful is without Raciella.
The overall deduction is weird; in a few moments she figures out the whole truth in seconds but fails to bring up the bigger concern. It's like 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
zato_1one
2009-08-18, 15:12
If he didn't want to destroy Prissy homeland :uhoh: Common, he was not that into it.
Yes, the entire island is better. Then why not take it when he can. Why wait for 100 years?
That's why I said you can't judge character base on your own feeling alone. It's fruitless without any good reference. You asked again why did he wait? The answer might be as simple as that "at that time" he didn't want to do it or he wasn't ambitious or he couldn't because of Riful or... All of these are just speculation. At this point nothing is wrong because there is still not enough evident. It's just that which speculation is more believable or has more possibility. ;) I hope that the history of the org will be revealed with more detail at some point.
Slash_Emperor
2009-08-18, 15:30
How does Riful know that? We know that, but Riful only met Priscilla one time and that was after the Luciella battle. All she knows is, is that Isley "submitted" to her which is the truth beneath the spread rumors. By all means, she has no reason to suspect she isn't any better mentally then anybody else.
If Priscilla was stable, Isley would have had her kill Riful the moment she came in firing range.
And if Priscilla went on a rampage, how would she know? She only knew because of the spread rumors. Isley's been on his own rampage across the south before he died, taking with him half of all the towns, and she didn't hear anything. It's only when Isley began spreading the false rumors that Riful ever heard anything.
If Priscilla attacked any of the towns in the Western lands, Riful would feel her Yoki in much the same way that Isley felt it so many years ago. If she was far away, she wouldn't be a threat to begin with.
Priscilla is an important factor because she's the main reason she's tried to hard in her Raciella "project". She's a much bigger concern then Isley who is more or less just as strong as her. Without Isley, Priscilla is still invincible, but without Priscilla, Isley is back to square one, the same way as Riful is without Raciella.
No, because without Isley, Priscilla cannot be controlled. A rampaging problem may be a problem, but without a solid reason, it won't turn specifically against you, and without focus even Priscilla could not kill Riful, who could simply escape her (by the way, wouldn't Riful count as "a small girl" that Priscilla avoided? =/)
The overall deduction is weird; in a few moments she figures out the whole truth in seconds but fails to bring up the bigger concern. It's like 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
Like I said, Priscilla stops being a direct concern the moment Isley dies. Without anyone to direct her power, Priscilla cannot kill Riful - or, more specifically, Riful can escape Priscilla's mad rampage as long as Priscilla is not given a direct reason to divert all her attention to Riful. Compared to Alicia and Beth, the Abyss Feeders, and the giant statue, Priscilla is just an afterthought.
MisterJB
2009-08-18, 15:34
If Priscilla was stable, Isley would have had her kill Riful the moment she came in firing range.
I don't agree. First, even tough Priscilla is much more powerful than the AOs, she doesn't show that ultimate power rigth away. There were 2 moments in Extra scene 3 when Isley could have killed Priscilla.
Also, Riful was accompanied by Dauf. A battle between Riful and Priscilla would have been messy and Isley was so tired that Dauf could probrably kill him alone.
It was simply too risky to be in the middle of an Abyssal vs SuperAbyssal figth. That's why Isley didn't send Priscilla after Riful.
That's why I said you can't judge character base on your own feeling alone. It's fruitless without any good reference. You asked again why did he wait? The answer might be as simple as that "at that time" he didn't want to do it or he wasn't ambitious or he couldn't because of Riful or... All of these are just speculation. At this point nothing is wrong because there is still not enough evident. It's just that which speculation is more believable or has more possibility. ;) I hope that the history of the org will be revealed with more detail at some point.
I am just questioning the validity of any possible answer to that question since everything, up to now, mostly leads to absurd answers, such as those you mentions.
Slash_Emperor
2009-08-18, 17:14
There was nothing Isley could've done if Priscilla went all-out from the get-go. And in a situation where Isley was in danger, Priscilla would have the incentive to do it.
irvinethearcher
2009-08-18, 17:25
@shiek927
riful knew about priscilla's mental state. It is written somewhere in the witch's maw episodes or in the episode in which riful met claire again.
You are right, i don't know how riful knew this information. The girl is good informed. Perhaps some of "her yomas" observed it and reported it to her?
I have it: OM 45 page 28:
Riful
What irritates me the most is that this girl lost her memorys in the fight between the man of the north and her. Or something like that...
zato_1one
2009-08-18, 19:16
I am just questioning the validity of any possible answer to that question since everything, up to now, mostly leads to absurd answers, such as those you mentions.
I wouldn't mind hearing your opinion on this. ;)
Shiek927
2009-08-18, 20:05
If Priscilla was stable, Isley would have had her kill Riful the moment she came in firing range.
This is true, but you and I both know that's not what happened nor what he intended. He intended to display fear and fear is what Riful felt when she saw Priscilla.
It is something; he could have won it all right there but decided for a different tactic. He didn't have Priscilla sic Riful because that was his choice, it had nothing to do with her mental state. He could have easily said that Riful stole her parents or something and she would have immidiately obliterated her.
If Priscilla attacked any of the towns in the Western lands, Riful would feel her Yoki in much the same way that Isley felt it so many years ago. If she was far away, she wouldn't be a threat to begin with.
Um, just because she didn't threaten Riful for seven years doesn't mean she wasn't a threat at all. Isley didn't attack the West either at all, does that mean he wasn't a threat?
No, because without Isley, Priscilla cannot be controlled. A rampaging problem may be a problem, but without a solid reason, it won't turn specifically against you, and without focus even Priscilla could not kill Riful, who could simply escape her (by the way, wouldn't Riful count as "a small girl" that Priscilla avoided? =/)
Why do you continue to presume that Riful knows Priscilla's mental state? Even if Isley is dead, Priscilla is too unpredictable to make presumptions like that. But beyond that, you constantly seem to think Riful knows more about Priscilla then she really does. All she knows is that Priscilla is much stronger then either herself and Isley and that she obeys him. She doesn't know anything else whatsoever.
Like I said, Priscilla stops being a direct concern the moment Isley dies. Without anyone to direct her power, Priscilla cannot kill Riful - or, more specifically, Riful can escape Priscilla's mad rampage as long as Priscilla is not given a direct reason to divert all her attention to Riful. Compared to Alicia and Beth, the Abyss Feeders, and the giant statue, Priscilla is just an afterthought.
I can agree with this, despite the fact that you seem to be very certain and what she does cannot be predicted, but as always, you presume Riful knows too much.
Slash_Emperor
2009-08-18, 20:58
This is true, but you and I both know that's not what happened nor what he intended. He intended to display fear and fear is what Riful felt when she saw Priscilla.
He "intended to use Priscilla to bring everything under his control", in his own words. Achieving that goal meant destroying Riful and the Organization. Priscilla could've easily killed Riful if she was pointed against her during their encounter. The fact that Isley didn't order her to do it must be interpreted as some sort of weakness from Riful, who realizes that she can be killed in an instant by Priscilla. Knowing what she does about Priscilla's earlier rampage and seeing how she single-mindedly obeys Isley, it wouldn't be hard to deduce that she is, in fact, a weapon, a powerful weapon, but one that is useless if it is not directed against somebody, and can even be dangerous for the wielder due to its unpredictability. Once the only hands that can wield that weapon are destroyed, then there is nothing to fear from it unless you come across it by happenstance - but even then, you have the capacity to evade its uncontrolled rampage.
It is something; he could have won it all right there but decided for a different tactic. He didn't have Priscilla sic Riful because that was his choice, it had nothing to do with her mental state. He could have easily said that Riful stole her parents or something and she would have immidiately obliterated her.
I find it more likely to believe that Isley held Priscilla back because in his state, if Priscilla slipped he would be killed without a trace. I firmly believe that this is what Riful deduced as well, and in conjunction with her former knowledge of Priscilla's antiques coupled with her observation of her absolute obedience to a weaker Isley, she put the pieces together and realized that though Priscilla is strong, without Isley she won't pose much of a direct threat.
Um, just because she didn't threaten Riful for seven years doesn't mean she wasn't a threat at all. Isley didn't attack the West either at all, does that mean he wasn't a threat?
Neither Priscilla nor Isley could find out where Riful left without some effort, and thanks to Riful's capable senses and seemingly incredible speed, she would probably pick them up before they got too close. Neither would be a threat to Riful, directly, since she could escape them, but she would lose her territory, and that was an undesired conclusion. Of course, compared to being cut to shreds by Priscilla, losing the West would be much better.
Why do you continue to presume that Riful knows Priscilla's mental state? Even if Isley is dead, Priscilla is too unpredictable to make presumptions like that. But beyond that, you constantly seem to think Riful knows more about Priscilla then she really does. All she knows is that Priscilla is much stronger then either herself and Isley and that she obeys him. She doesn't know anything else whatsoever.
I already explained the reason that Riful knows Priscilla's mental state. It's obvious to deduce - even seven years ago, she described Priscilla as "going on a rampage", then when she met Isley, she realized that though he had a powerful ally by his side, he was reluctant to use her, meaning he was afraid of something - and that something wasn't Riful, but Priscilla herself, who cannot be controlled fully even by Isley - yet he still seemed to have earned her obedience, and those two say a lot about someone's mental state.
I can agree with this, despite the fact that you seem to be very certain and what she does cannot be predicted, but as always, you presume Riful knows too much.
What Priscilla does can be predicted with extreme ease, because it is what all Awakened Beings do until they begin to exert control over their strength. Going wild all over the place, killing people, trying to cope with their overwhelming power... all those are things Priscilla was doing before she was tamed by Isley, and things she would do again if Isley was taken out of the equation. In such a situation, even if Priscilla did stumble across the West, Riful could preemptively sense and avoid her.
I already explained how Riful should've known about Priscilla's weakness, which is her unstable mind.
Riful is wrong 90% of the time despite sounding smart....
I wouldn't mind hearing your opinion on this. ;)
It's simple actually since I am simple :) Why the North?
a) Oil wells
b) Cold weather
c) The Org's original base was in the North.
d) The North used to be pretty warm until the Global Warming hit.
e) Low population
f) He was nut
What is your answer? Mine is e)
SagaraSouske
2009-08-18, 21:46
Actually I think Priscilla was tamed by Raki. She wasn't really tamed by Isley so much as Isley manipulated her.
Isley didn't manipulate her, imo. More like, she was very attached to him instead. 7 years ago, Raki looked more like a teddy bear.
zato_1one
2009-08-19, 03:06
It's simple actually since I am simple :) Why the North?
I guess he awakened in the north. Went rampage for a while. After came to his sense, he decided to live in the north. Nothing complex really. :cool:
Sleepy Speculator
2009-08-19, 06:02
Personally i think something happened in the north, since so many male awakened beings were in one place at one time. Ab's seem to behave in some respects like territorial animals, for so many to be in the same environment with overlapping habitats as it were, implies that, it is where they awakened.
The awakened beings that Clarice nearly got killed by said something along the lines of 'we too will arrange at least this much' with regards to if the org was hunting them, and teaming up, thus implying that they are very much solitary. For so many otherwise solitary male AB's to retain some form of hierarchical structure *and* be in the same place says to me that the org had some heavy deployment in the north, which 'awakened' on masse.
Since this is first generation we are talking about and included #1 - Isley, #2 Rigald and at least 20 or so other male AB's i'd hazard a guess that we are talking about the first generation's HQ/base, or a facility at least.
There is some supporting evidence, boy's are sent North and girls are sent East. So if this was a first generation claymore base, then it would need a supply of males, hence the reason for the probably long abandoned slave pens that Raki ended up in.
If the Dod's attacked this base and the claymores of the first generation did exactly what they had been programmed to do and awakened then it would explain, why the entire male generation went haywire. The base was lost and operations switched to using what was left, which turned out to be better for the org since girls don't awaken so much. (bad news for dod's). Lesson learnt don't directly attack the org...
At least it's a theory...
I guess he awakened in the north. Went rampage for a while. After came to his sense, he decided to live in the north. Nothing complex really. :cool:
That's kinda contradictory since we know the Org don't distribute warrior randomly. Isley is a high rank one. He should either awake near the HQ or around Rebona (which is a juicy region). Then go North?! "After came to his sense," how long? 50 years? :uhoh: Enough for the Org to train another generation? That's even lamer than option f) He was nut.
zato_1one
2009-08-19, 09:38
That's kinda contradictory since we know the Org don't distribute warrior randomly. Isley is a high rank one. He should either awake near the HQ or around Rebona (which is a juicy region). Then go North?! "After came to his sense," how long? 50 years? :uhoh: Enough for the Org to train another generation? That's even lamer than option f) He was nut.
LOL Lame? Why? :heh: What's about your low population? :eyespin: I'd said that the org had another base in the North sounds much more plausible.
He was a high rank so he should only awakened near the HQ, huh? :D That's funny. Do you really know what happened in the past? Are you sure that the org's policy of distributing Claymore is always the same? And are you even sure that every generations, from past to present, have the same number of Claymore? I've already said many times and I will remind you again. I speculate that it might happened between the transition of the generation. So it also has the possibility that the org might try to get rid of the male generation in order to prevent any more awakened. ;)
Personally i think something happened in the north, since so many male awakened beings were in one place at one time. Ab's seem to behave in some respects like territorial animals, for so many to be in the same environment with overlapping habitats as it were, implies that, it is where they awakened.
We know that Isley was intentionally gathering awakened beings. It seems likely that he gathered basically all of the ABs in the north, but I don't see any evidence to indicate that he would have been constrained to just the north for recruiting. He seems to have gathered most of the remaining males as well (barring Duph, of course), but given that he probably had ties with them from his days as a warrior that seems like a sufficient basis for recruitment without the need for positing any external factors like location of territory, etc.
That said, I tend to agree with you; I suspect that, for one reason or another, most of the male ABs were already living in the north even before the advent of Priscilla. I also somewhat suspect, from some of the hints dropped in the dialog between Duph and Gaheh (assuming that the translation there is correct) that the males basically awakened all at once.
Shiek927
2009-08-19, 16:55
He "intended to use Priscilla to bring everything under his control", in his own words. Achieving that goal meant destroying Riful and the Organization. Priscilla could've easily killed Riful if she was pointed against her during their encounter. The fact that Isley didn't order her to do it must be interpreted as some sort of weakness from Riful, who realizes that she can be killed in an instant by Priscilla. Knowing what she does about Priscilla's earlier rampage and seeing how she single-mindedly obeys Isley, it wouldn't be hard to deduce that she is, in fact, a weapon, a powerful weapon, but one that is useless if it is not directed against somebody, and can even be dangerous for the wielder due to its unpredictability. Once the only hands that can wield that weapon are destroyed, then there is nothing to fear from it unless you come across it by happenstance - but even then, you have the capacity to evade its uncontrolled rampage.
Slash, everything you wrote, is one big theory. Everything you wrote is right out of your mouth, how you interpreted it. The only thing that you wrote here that is truth is that Isley didn't order Priscilla to kill Riful, even if we all agreed she could have easily done so. Everything else is pure speculation that I can't say has anything to back it up other then Riful is smart....even if she has been wrong from time to time.
I find it more likely to believe that Isley held Priscilla back because in his state, if Priscilla slipped he would be killed without a trace. I firmly believe that this is what Riful deduced as well, and in conjunction with her former knowledge of Priscilla's antiques coupled with her observation of her absolute obedience to a weaker Isley, she put the pieces together and realized that though Priscilla is strong, without Isley she won't pose much of a direct threat.
Fine, if this is what you want to believe fine; I just hope you realize that's it's pretty long-winded to me. Nowhere do we get the impression or idea that Riful "put all the pieces together". We know from the latest chapter that, that is what she did to figure out that Isley is dead because, let me tell you, it would have been weird and confusing if Riful suddenly said "Isley is dead" without that inner monologue. It gives us something to back up what Riful says, knows or believes without making attributing it all to merely the fact that Riful is smart, even though she's been wrong from time to time.
No where do we get a inner monologue or any clue of some sort that Riful put all the pieces together and deduced Priscilla's mind, we only saw that she was rightfully very afraid of her.
Neither Priscilla nor Isley could find out where Riful left without some effort, and thanks to Riful's capable senses and seemingly incredible speed, she would probably pick them up before they got too close. Neither would be a threat to Riful, directly, since she could escape them, but she would lose her territory, and that was an undesired conclusion. Of course, compared to being cut to shreds by Priscilla, losing the West would be much better.
Priscilla is almost always fully suppressed, it's her forte, only releasing what is necessary at the time, whether that be enough to stomp Rigardo or slice Isley's arm. Isley and Rigardo were lucky to begin with finding her because she was in the middle of devouring a town and even then, when she was using her power, Isley didn't correctly measure her power.
I think it's safe to say that Priscilla could easily stealth her way to Riful and, even if Riful did sense her, it would only be a weak scent. She wouldn't feel it as astronomical or hers until she was right there in front of her. After all, for all her senses, Riful can't sense very good very far; she certainly didn't sense an Abyssal-level like Isley dying. She may have incredible senses, but she can't sense well unless she's looking directly at the person, such as Raciella and her small movements. The only reason Riful sensed Priscilla's true power, since I don't see why she wouldn't be suppressed as always unless she was asked to show Riful to make her afraid, was because she was only a few feet away from her. I can easily imagine Priscilla sneaking up on her with Riful unawares.
I already explained the reason that Riful knows Priscilla's mental state. It's obvious to deduce - even seven years ago, she described Priscilla as "going on a rampage", then when she met Isley, she realized that though he had a powerful ally by his side, he was reluctant to use her, meaning he was afraid of something - and that something wasn't Riful, but Priscilla herself, who cannot be controlled fully even by Isley - yet he still seemed to have earned her obedience, and those two say a lot about someone's mental state.
Where do you get this idea? please show me in the manga, because otherwise, it's just speculation.
I understand if this is what you believe, but all we know straight from Riful's mouth is: is that Isley submitted himself to her as a "general" and that he has now fallen for her. The fact Priscilla went on a rampage seven years ago doesn't prove anything either about her mental state, only that she went on a rampage. If anything, Riful's last words "going on a rampage as she pleased gives off the impression that Priscilla was doing whatever she wanted knowingly, and not because she didn't understand. His army went on a rampage and none of them had mental problems. Nowhere have we heard Riful analyze and understand Priscilla's mind. Easy as it seems, I don't want to believe that is what Riful believed and understood even if she's smart and it's easy to believe. It still remains speculation.
What Priscilla does can be predicted with extreme ease, because it is what all Awakened Beings do until they begin to exert control over their strength. Going wild all over the place, killing people, trying to cope with their overwhelming power... all those are things Priscilla was doing before she was tamed by Isley, and things she would do again if Isley was taken out of the equation. In such a situation, even if Priscilla did stumble across the West, Riful could preemptively sense and avoid her.
I already explained how Riful should've known about Priscilla's weakness, which is her unstable mind.
This here is finally where you're saying something more solid, because that is how AB's generally behave. Still, like you say, even if Priscilla really did act like that in such a situation, that still makes Priscilla a viable threat. Nothing controls where Priscilla's next rampage will be if that's what happens and as I explained above, Riful wouldn't be able to discern her coming. Even so, she wouldn't because of something Riful is unaware of: Raki. Priscilla is "tamer" then ever and, even if she is no longer dangerous, this is something Riful is completely unaware of, so in her mind, Priscilla is still extremely dangerous.
The thing is, even if Riful should have known Priscilla's weakness, doesn't mean she really did, again no matter how easy it may seem. Even if she is mentally unstable, that still makes her a great threat, maybe even greater because she is totally unpredictable and uncontrollable. You seem to think that without Isley, Priscilla automatically becomes docile and benevolent to all. Just because Priscilla doesn't have a "focus", doesn't mean she still doesn't have her power. In that sense, it isn't even a weakness, she's more dangerous then ever, and with her powers of flight, can go to any place on the island easily, and with her less then perfect sensing, Riful wouldn't feel her coming.
Sheesh, maybe Priscilla ends up being the one to finish her off, if Raki and Priscilla head out to where the action is like some people believe, and with her fully suppressed body and Raciella's dominating yoki covering everything, nobody would feel her coming at all.
In short, regardless of Isley being alive or not, it feels illogical that she would figure out that he was dead without questioning her presence in all this. Right now, the pieces don't fit. It's like learning how to walk by flying first, it makes you go "......huh?":twitch::eyespin:
zato_1one
2009-08-19, 21:20
I think that Riful wasn't sure about it judging from her expression and her speeches. It was just a quick conclusion from the fact that the org left their base defenseless by sending their best warriors. I doubt that she had time to give it a deep thought since she was about to be exterminated at the time. The first priority here was to deal with Alicia.
MisterJB
2009-08-19, 21:22
The first priority here was to deal with Alicia.
She is doing a veeeery god job so far.:rolleyes:
Riful: "OMG, are those my kidneys?"
LOL Lame? Why? :heh: What's about your low population? :eyespin: I'd said that the org had another base in the North sounds much more plausible.
He was a high rank so he should only awakened near the HQ, huh? :D That's funny. Do you really know what happened in the past? Are you sure that the org's policy of distributing Claymore is always the same? And are you even sure that every generations, from past to present, have the same number of Claymore? I've already said many times and I will remind you again. I speculate that it might happened between the transition of the generation. So it also has the possibility that the org might try to get rid of the male generation in order to prevent any more awakened. ;)
No, I never said he should only awakened near the HQ. He should awaken anywhere near the center but no way in the North.
Ah, if you bring up "org's policy of distributing Claymore," I'll happily accept it and go back to discuss Rosemary :) Some says that the Org only chooses worthy warriors...
And no I don't think the ORG trying to getting rid of anything, Galaeta said there were three disastrous incidents. And it doesn't sound like it was intentional.
Now back to why I think e) is the most reasonable. Because it's the only logical option given everything up until Isley's death Chapter. I don't want to restate it since it had been facepalmed by Yagi anyway... However, I would like to share my observation that although the male generation, who all awakened very quickly, it was the female generation that I found to be extremely primitive, saved Riful who awakened at a very young age. Luciela was also very primitive too.
zato_1one
2009-08-19, 21:47
No, I never said he should only awakened near the HQ. He should awaken anywhere near the center but no way in the North.
This is again not making any sense. Why did he can't awakened in the North? No mission, no Yoma or no AB in the North?
Ah, if you bring up "org's policy of distributing Claymore," I'll happily accept it and go back to discuss Rosemary :) Some says that the Org only chooses worthy warriors...
The org choose only worthy "and" obedient warriors.
And no I don't think the ORG trying to getting rid of anything, Galaeta said there were three disastrous incidents. And it doesn't sound like it was intentional.
Galatea didn't know everything inside out. At least she didn't know about the main land like Miria.
Now back to why I think e) is the most reasonable. Because it's the only logical option given everything up until Isley's death Chapter. I don't want to restate it since it had been facepalmed by Yagi anyway... However, I would like to share my observation that although the male generation, who all awakened very quickly, it was the female generation that I found to be extremely primitive, saved Riful who awakened at a very young age. Luciela was also very primitive too.
Sorry but I fail to understand how is this related with low population. :confused:
evil_kenshin
2009-08-19, 22:05
This is again not making any sense. Why did he can't awakened in the North? No mission, no Yoma or no AB in the North?
The irony lol that sentence makes no sense whatsoever :p
Shiek927
2009-08-19, 22:49
I think that Riful wasn't sure about it judging from her expression and her speeches. It was just a quick conclusion from the fact that the org left their base defenseless by sending their best warriors. I doubt that she had time to give it a deep thought since she was about to be exterminated at the time. The first priority here was to deal with Alicia.
I can understand that much :)
You're right, she didn't have time to think straight, she was too busy trying to defend herself. Leaving out Priscilla from her thought process and assuming Isley was dead without considering her at all just seemed really weird.
But that explanation is okay.
This is again not making any sense. Why did he can't awakened in the North? No mission, no Yoma or no AB in the North?
No mission, no Yoma, no AB in the Center where he was assigned? :eyebrow:
The org choose only worthy "and" obedient warriors.
Oh yea. Did someone just say that their policies can change? :heh:
Galatea didn't know everything inside out. At least she didn't know about the main land like Miria.
Now, you're in denial :heh: Actually, Riful agreed with Galatae, but hey Riful's words are often incorrect Very well, let's follow that trend. I suppose her statement that only #1 was worthy to be classified as AO is questionable too (now, I have to prepare my flame gears) Who said that Riful was a former #1? According to your logic, Galatae + Riful's words are not enough to qualify that assertion. Who said that Isley was a former #1? Gaheh and Duff agreed that Duff was #3 so what? Rigaldo could be #4 (who said Rigaldo was #2 actually?), Isley was #2, and Rubel/(random character) was #1.
Sorry but I fail to understand how is this related with low population. :confused:
It doesn't really matter actually. Isley is dead.
zato_1one
2009-08-20, 01:41
Gosh... This argument is really annoying. I don't want to offend or insult you but still... It seems our logics are completely in pararell. -_-"
Sorry. No offense here but I start to feel that you're trying to troll me.
No mission, no Yoma, no AB in the Center where he was assigned? :eyebrow:
No. But one picture should be enough for this.
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7011/05crop.png
Oh yea. Did someone just say that their policies can change? :heh:
I add the obedient part in your statement just to remind you for something important that you may forget...
Hint: It's about the part which the org try to get rid of their own warriors.
Now, you're in denial :heh: Actually, Riful agreed with Galatae, but hey Riful's words are often incorrect Very well, let's follow that trend. I suppose her statement that only #1 was worthy to be classified as AO is questionable too (now, I have to prepare my flame gears) Who said that Riful was a former #1? According to your logic, Galatae + Riful's words are not enough to qualify that assertion. Who said that Isley was a former #1? Gaheh and Duff agreed that Duff was #3 so what? Rigaldo could be #4 (who said Rigaldo was #2 actually?), Isley was #2, and Rubel/(random character) was #1.
You're the one who deny everything I've said with no good reason. -_-
No.1 awakened is considered disastrous. That's the fact. Galatea never mentioned anything about the reason why they were awakened. So you can't cut the possibility that the org might be involved in one or two or all of those cases. Do I need to remind you about the third case?
Eisdrache
2009-08-20, 05:11
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7011/05crop.png
I think this is the right moment to express my love for Cynthia <3
Slash_Emperor
2009-08-20, 05:34
Slash, everything you wrote, is one big theory. Everything you wrote is right out of your mouth, how you interpreted it. The only thing that you wrote here that is truth is that Isley didn't order Priscilla to kill Riful, even if we all agreed she could have easily done so. Everything else is pure speculation that I can't say has anything to back it up other then Riful is smart....even if she has been wrong from time to time.
....
In short, regardless of Isley being alive or not, it feels illogical that she would figure out that he was dead without questioning her presence in all this. Right now, the pieces don't fit. It's like learning how to walk by flying first, it makes you go "......huh?":twitch::eyespin:
You finally said it. I was waiting for someone to bring this up, so I can end this pointless discussion.
You are correct. This is a theory. A normally unneccessary, complicated theory based on loose logic and conclusions that rely heavily on interpretations and assumptions. Under normal circumstances, it should barely be considered a theory, because there would be nothing backing up its existence.
However, there is another point you yourself brought up, which instantly destroys all your arguments. Riful did ignore Priscilla's presence. She did act completely irregularly, contrary to what you would expect. So I constructed a theory based on which Riful's otherwise illogical actions can be explained. Riful's actions are manga facts which cannot be denied. What I wrote is based on backwards logic - I tried to find a reason for Riful to ignore Priscilla when considering Isley, and came up with this.
I'm not saying that you have to accept it, but it's either a) you accept it, b) you come up with something better, c) you keep wondering about it, or d) blame Yagi for a plothole. As for me, I've already found my answer in the theory above.
So you see, this wasn't an argument to support my theory to begin with. As long as my theory stands logically (which it does - all of what I wrote is possible, and more than that, has a high probability of being true), I have a firm, solid explanation for Riful's actions. You can accept it or not, and it would make no difference to me, for I'm not trying to pass it out as fact, which it is not. But it's a sufficient explanation for me, so I'm sticking with that.
In short, I was just explaining why I think Riful didn't think of Priscilla when Isley came into question, which was the original subject of discussion.
I think this is the right moment to express my love for Cynthia <3
You love her that much now don't you.:)
Addiction_2_Claymore
2009-08-20, 07:33
who doesn't love Cynthia? she's the sweet and innocent girl ;D
Gosh... This argument is really annoying. I don't want to offend or insult you but still... It seems our logics are completely in pararell. -_-"
Sorry. No offense here but I start to feel that you're trying to troll me.
No. But one picture should be enough for this.
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7011/05crop.png
So what? Since he was #1, he must be responsible for even more regions. And if you read carefully, most high-ranked ABs are focused in the Middle, where there are more food, saved Duff, Rigaldo and gangs who have good reason. For those who don't, it is their natural interest to stay at the center of the island.
So why the North, which is the least populate of all regions, and before his awakening it was probably the calmest region? And if powerful foes are centered around the Middle, why in the world the Org sent their most powerful weapon to the North? They were on drugs?
I add the obedient part in your statement just to remind you for something important that you may forget...
Hint: It's about the part which the org try to get rid of their own warriors.
Haha, you are quick to forget heh? I didn't start with the policy changing thingy, you did. If you like to cherry pick what changed and what not, go ahead, all were baseless anyway. Rosemary...
You're the one who deny everything I've said with no good reason. -_-
No.1 awakened is considered disastrous. That's the fact. Galatea never mentioned anything about the reason why they were awakened. So you can't cut the possibility that the org might be involved in one or two or all of those cases. Do I need to remind you about the third case?
:rolleyes:
Let's the words speak for itself.
I wrote:
And no I don't think the ORG trying to getting rid of anything, Galaeta said there were three disastrous incidents. And it doesn't sound like it was intentional.
And of all possible replies, including the one you used in the last post, you chose :
Galatea didn't know everything inside out. At least she didn't know about the main land like Miria.
Of course, you will respond: "I didn't mean that, don't put words in my mouth."
Anyway, if the Org made Isley awaken intentionally and got themselves almost wiped out, it just proves that they are incompetent. They can't estimate anything. So it would logically render their "choosing only obedient and worthy warriors" null and void, (which would open a new horizon of discussion).
See, everything has its consequence :)
Everything about Isley, from the moment he was introduced, is the one thing that pissed me off the most in Claymore. I expected much more than that :upset:
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-20, 11:39
About Isley being awakened by the organization deliberately, let's no forget that he belonged to one of the earliest generations of Claymores if not the first generation, as I've mentioned before. The organization has been researching genetic engineering in order to create warriors capable of rivalling the demon kin in terms of strength, but also make warriors that could be controlled. By using demon flesh mixed with human flesh in some way, they created Claymores. However, I doubt the claymores themselves are powerful enough to fight the demon kin, so they attempted to train the soldiers to use 100% of their demon energy, with disastrouos consequences. It makes sense that Isley's awakening could have been the result of the organization's experiments, but it is just as likely that it was a casual awakening during battle of course. The chances are 50/50 that the organization was involved at best.
zato_1one
2009-08-20, 14:07
So what? Since he was #1, he must be responsible for even more regions. And if you read carefully, most high-ranked ABs are focused in the Middle, where there are more food, saved Duff, Rigaldo and gangs who have good reason. For those who don't, it is their natural interest to stay at the center of the island.
So why the North, which is the least populate of all regions, and before his awakening it was probably the calmest region? And if powerful foes are centered around the Middle, why in the world the Org sent their most powerful weapon to the North? They were on drugs?
... My deepest apology, I forgot to highlight "...they can quickly respond to problems all over the continent" :rolleyes: Sorry. I can't respond to you anymore about this until I'm sure that you really understand the meaning of those words.
Haha, you are quick to forget heh? I didn't start with the policy changing thingy, you did. If you like to cherry pick what changed and what not, go ahead, all were baseless anyway. Rosemary...
You're the one who try to counter my speculation with baseless conclusion. Just because I didn't mention it. It was by no means that I forgot about it. What I wanted to say was that the org's policies were changeable. It wasn't baseless. If you don't forget, you should know what the example is.
I wrote:
And of all possible replies, including the one you used in the last post, you chose :
Of course, you will respond: "I didn't mean that, don't put words in my mouth."
No. Please don't talk like I'm a cheap person. Although this is just an internet forum. But if I'm wrong, I will accept it. No reason why I shouldn't. Of course, if you can counter my speculation with good enough reasons, I will accept it too.
Your quote
And no I don't think the ORG trying to getting rid of anything, Galaeta said there were three disastrous incidents. And it doesn't sound like it was intentional.
I want to ask how the hell "there were three disastrous incidents" can counter "the ORG trying to getting rid of anything"? I'm not sure if they're even related. Do you expect me to take "it doesn't sound like it was intentional" as a reason? :confused: If someone else can understand this. Please explain it to me, my brain may be a bit dull today. -_-
Why did I mention about Galatea? It was because your argument wasn't valid enough for me to accept it. You and I both didn't know what really happened in the past. And Galatea wasn't an exception. Not only that she never mentioned about the causes of those three cases. But She also didn't know the causes which led to my conclusion that she didn't know everything inside out. Was this baseless? No. Please re-read Cognates of Paradise arc.
Anyway, if the Org made Isley awaken intentionally and got themselves almost wiped out, it just proves that they are incompetent. They can't estimate anything. So it would logically render their "choosing only obedient and worthy warriors" null and void, (which would open a new horizon of discussion).
See, everything has its consequence :)
Everything about Isley, from the moment he was introduced, is the one thing that pissed me off the most in Claymore. I expected much more than that :upset:
Was it necessary to be an intention? Again, please re-read Cognates of Paradise arc or just read Freedan's post.
Shiek927
2009-08-20, 14:31
You finally said it. I was waiting for someone to bring this up, so I can end this pointless discussion.
You are correct. This is a theory. A normally unneccessary, complicated theory based on loose logic and conclusions that rely heavily on interpretations and assumptions. Under normal circumstances, it should barely be considered a theory, because there would be nothing backing up its existence.
However, there is another point you yourself brought up, which instantly destroys all your arguments. Riful did ignore Priscilla's presence. She did act completely irregularly, contrary to what you would expect. So I constructed a theory based on which Riful's otherwise illogical actions can be explained. Riful's actions are manga facts which cannot be denied. What I wrote is based on backwards logic - I tried to find a reason for Riful to ignore Priscilla when considering Isley, and came up with this.
I'm not saying that you have to accept it, but it's either a) you accept it, b) you come up with something better, c) you keep wondering about it, or d) blame Yagi for a plothole. As for me, I've already found my answer in the theory above.
So you see, this wasn't an argument to support my theory to begin with. As long as my theory stands logically (which it does - all of what I wrote is possible, and more than that, has a high probability of being true), I have a firm, solid explanation for Riful's actions. You can accept it or not, and it would make no difference to me, for I'm not trying to pass it out as fact, which it is not. But it's a sufficient explanation for me, so I'm sticking with that.
In short, I was just explaining why I think Riful didn't think of Priscilla when Isley came into question, which was the original subject of discussion.
Jesus, you don't have to sound so offended, this is just a discussion. You sound like you're taking this personally :heh::confused::eyespin:
None of this by any means was "pointless". If it was, why did you bother replying and entering this debate in the first place? to argue with me for the sake of it? Of course you aren't pushing it; if you were, not only would I be offended, but I wouldn't be disagreeing with you.
I'm trying to find out the answer to, what appears to me as, a plothole. I personally don't see any of what you said really all that solid nor do I think their is an answer yet. If this is what you want to believe, go right ahead; you yourself said that it's good enough for you and you couldn't care less what I think. I was just arguing that it's not good enough for me, which means their really isn't a 100% canon explanation yet that everyone accepts without question, this is why we were having this debate to begin with, to find that answer. Getting upset like this is like theevilanimal getting upset that her pictures in the Live Action thread weren't received to well: it's just a debate, it's silly to get angry or chalk all this up as "pointless" just because I didn't agree with what you had to say. This IS a manga, after all, not anything serious; but to humor you and go along, I'll pick C) and D).
In the meantime, think it's time for a new topic, perhaps one we can both agree on ;):heh:
... My deepest apology, I forgot to highlight "...they can quickly respond to problems all over the continent" :rolleyes: Sorry. I can't respond to you anymore about this until I'm sure that you really understand the meaning of those words.
Perhaps you should take a chill pill and reread what I wrote. Now let take a real life example, theoretically, U.S naval fleets are responsible to protect U.S citizens on legitimate territory. But what is the likelihood of 5 carriers fleet patrolling the Somalian Coastal area?
Of course, everything is a possibility. Like I said, you can just say he took the North because he was nut. Fine!
You're the one who try to counter my speculation with baseless conclusion. Just because I didn't mention it. It was by no means that I forgot about it. What I wanted to say was that the org's policies were changeable. It wasn't baseless. If you don't forget, you should know what the example is.
Hmm, I had no problem with that if you read carefully. But if I gave up on that, I must use it for something else, something many people, including you, would protest :)
Of course, there are exceptions, but exceptions are only valid if they are presented in the manga, and with good reasons.
No. Please don't talk like I'm a cheap person. Although this is just an internet forum. But if I'm wrong, I will accept it. No reason why I shouldn't. Of course, if you can counter my speculation with good enough reasons, I will accept it too.
I want to ask how the hell "there were three disastrous incidents" can counter "the ORG trying to getting rid of anything"? I'm not sure if they're even related. Do you expect me to take "it doesn't sound like it was intentional" as a reason? :confused: If someone else can understand this. Please explain it to me, my brain may be a bit dull today. -_-
Why you asked? Because, if it were intentional, unless they were utter fools and hopelessly incompetent, there would be no way that incident would bring them to the brink of annihilation. Simple as that.
And if you think they were that stupid, I give up on that but will continue on the other ... unpleasant debate :)
Why did I mention about Galatea? It was because your argument wasn't valid enough for me to accept it. You and I both didn't know what really happened in the past. And Galatea wasn't an exception. Not only that she never mentioned about the causes of those three cases. But She also didn't know the causes which led to my conclusion that she didn't know everything inside out. Was this baseless? No. Please re-read Cognates of Paradise arc.
Actually, I believed it was because I bold "disastrous." Again, of all the stuffs, you chose to attack Galatea's credibility.
Slash_Emperor
2009-08-20, 15:43
Jesus, you don't have to sound so offended, this is just a discussion. You sound like you're taking this personally :heh::confused::eyespin:
Hmm. That's just my style. No matter how I sound, I'm having fun. It's really my style of debating that comes across as harsh, but I don't care either way.
None of this by any means was "pointless". If it was, why did you bother replying and entering this debate in the first place? to argue with me for the sake of it? Of course you aren't pushing it; if you were, not only would I be offended, but I wouldn't be disagreeing with you.
Pointless, as in irrelevant. All I did was structure a theory. If you didn't want to believe it, you could've just said so. I'm neither arrogant enough to believe that I'm always right, nor patient enough to convince everyone that I am. As long as you could not prove my theory wrong, there was no point in debating against it. Discussing it is fine, but you can't really say it is wrong without disproving it, and that's not really possible at this point, either.
I'm trying to find out the answer to, what appears to me as, a plothole. I personally don't see any of what you said really all that solid nor do I think their is an answer yet. If this is what you want to believe, go right ahead; you yourself said that it's good enough for you and you couldn't care less what I think. I was just arguing that it's not good enough for me, which means their really isn't a 100% canon explanation yet that everyone accepts without question, this is why we were having this debate to begin with, to find that answer.
As long as there is no canon explanation straight from the manga, my theory is as good as any you can come up with. You may say it's not solid, but I've yet to see you come up with something more believable. And we can debate all we want - we won't come up with a canon answer before Yagi shows it to us, because it can't exist till then.
Getting upset like this is like theevilanimal getting upset that her pictures in the Live Action thread weren't received to well: it's just a debate, it's silly to get angry or chalk all this up as "pointless" just because I didn't agree with what you had to say. This IS a manga, after all, not anything serious; but to humor you and go along, I'll pick C) and D).
Upset? Angry? You really put a lot of weight in how my words sound. I can't say I'm feeling any particular emotions throughout debates over the internet (or debates in general, for that matter). It's just the way I argue.
In the meantime, think it's time for a new topic, perhaps one we can both agree on ;):heh:
But is there really one? We can't really speculate over facts, and even if we could there are some people (aka irvine) who will try to debate against them. In internet debates, universal agreement is generally a faraway utopia, until the mangaka himself comes out from our computer monitors and beats the truth into us.
zato_1one
2009-08-20, 18:11
@iLney
OK. Now I can confirm to myself that arguing with you can't make any more sense or any good contribution. So I will peacefully stop it here. :rolleyes:
epica_999
2009-08-20, 19:54
who doesn't love Cynthia? she's the sweet and innocent girl ;D
she´s sweet and innocent girl i know :) ... do you know what happen to sweet and innocent girls in this manga :D ? ask flora lol
MisterJB
2009-08-20, 19:57
she´s sweet and innocent girl i know :) ... do you know what happen to sweet and innocent girls in this manga :D ? ask flora lol
The girl who said she was going to start chopping heads if the Claymores didn't STFU?
Yes, sweet like candy.
MisterJB
2009-08-20, 19:58
Priscilla's reaction upon seeing Isley's "lance" for the first time.
http://i29.tinypic.com/2qc420w.png
http://i28.tinypic.com/29c28w1.png
And then, she said this.
http://i28.tinypic.com/2rlyfcx.png
Who's ur daddy, Priscilla?
And people still say that Priscilla x Isley is not canon.
Thank you JB, for that refreshing post :heh:
Shiek927
2009-08-20, 20:38
Thank you JB, for that refreshing post :heh:
More like Thank You for giving me nightmares :uhoh::uhoh::eyespin:
The girl who said she was going to start chopping heads if the Claymores didn't STFU?
Yes, sweet like candy.
XDXDXD, At least we agree on this.
I'll never understand why people think Flora is "sweet and innocent", never.
----
Slash, I'm done, simple as that. I already posted everything in post to explain why I don't think your theory is a good one, so I don't know why you said I haven't said anything. As for attitude, I understand that reading emotions is difficult over the internet, but it's the more reason to try to come across as neutral at all times. To me, your wording came across someone who was taking it personally. I can't see your face so I don't know if it's true, but that's what it felt like reading your post.
@iLney
OK. Now I can confirm to myself that arguing with you can't make any more sense or any good contribution. So I will peacefully stop it here. :rolleyes:
eek.... I should pull that out first.
The love for Teresa here indeed transcends everything :heh:
Slash_Emperor
2009-08-20, 21:37
The girl who said she was going to start chopping heads if the Claymores didn't STFU?
Yes, sweet like candy.
To be precise, she only said she'd take on anyone who still wanted to fight. I really doubt she intended to begin cutting down their forces for the sake of enforcing quiet (which would be pointless anyway, as it'd be much akin to the Organization's break-my-rules-and-I-kill-you style of leadership), despite what she said to Clare (where her pride probably took precedence). She merely intimidated the others with the prospect of a public humiliation by being chopped by a slash they couldn't even see.
Damn, Flora was so awesome. But her death was epic, too. I mean, she got effing cut in half by a finger.
@Shiek: Think as you wish, do as you wish. I've lost interest in this anyway.
SagaraSouske
2009-08-20, 21:50
The love for pointless arguments here also transcends everything :) I don't mean it as a negative way of course.
MisterJB
2009-08-20, 21:53
Yeah, I loved Flora. She was so awesome. To many good people died in the North. Veronica, Flora, Jean, Rigardo. THANK GOD Undine died. I tremble at the tougth of Undine dressing in the same manner as the Ghosts.
whitepearl
2009-08-20, 21:56
I think this is the right moment to express my love for Cynthia <3
Koiso Ryoko imo :cool: :heh:
:lol at the Priscilla and Isley encounter
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-21, 00:58
Koiso Ryoko imo :cool: :heh:
:lol at the Priscilla and Isley encounter
Damn right. She's epic incarnate :heh:
I would like to think that she really caught Isley's eye. That is big reason why he let her be in the first place. And it was worth it I would think. Because it prevented Riful from killing him after the Lucialla fight.:)
yeeehaaaa.... and only 10 days left until viable spoilers show up :D
MisterJB
2009-08-24, 21:24
Check this out, people.
http://i31.tinypic.com/2ni04me.png
In this page, Sid refers to Clare as a "she".
But here...
http://i27.tinypic.com/2e1t1c9.png
He's all shocked that Clare is a woman.
So...what the hell? Does Sid calls everyone "she"? No one ever teached him the difference between a "she" and a "he"?
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-24, 21:32
Probably just a mistranslation.....I bet it's written "he" on that first panel you showed in Japanese.
MisterJB
2009-08-24, 21:34
Probably just a mistranslation.....I bet it's written "he" on that first panel you showed in Japanese.
Yes, I do know that. There's no gender specific word like he or she in Japanese.
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-24, 21:37
Yes, I do know that. There's no gender specific word like he or she in Japanese.
Orly? Interesting, very interesting. Now I see your joke :uhoh:
MisterJB
2009-08-24, 21:44
Now I see your joke :uhoh:
They can't all be gold.http://i31.tinypic.com/96zzis.gif
nvm................................
I think that Cid would always think that he would always go up against a man or two.:)
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-25, 12:10
Maybe he was surprised by the fact that he guessed it was a woman :heh:
Shiek927
2009-08-25, 12:50
Maybe he was surprised by the fact that he guessed it was a woman :heh:
And he ended up being right :heh:
He probably was just being sarcastic and stupid and thought calling "him" a girl would be a good insult or whatever......no, that sounds too stupid to believe.
I got nothing :heh:
I checked the manga i have and Sid says "He dodged your first move"
I checked the manga i have and Sid says "He dodged your first move"
MisterJB is right.
The Japanese don't normally use "he" or "she".
Normally they omit it completely, as the subject is understood from context.
On the occasion they do say it, they either use the person's name, or a gender neutral "that person" (or in this case, I'm guessing Cid said yatsu(rascal) instead of person).
In Japanese the only time people seem to use "he/she" is when they are speaking to someone they are VERY close with - usually intimate with (boyfriend, girlfriend,husband,wife). As such, when it does appear, it's often translated as boyfriend/girlfriend instead of "he/she" (just like "anata"(you) is often translated as "darling").
Getting this long winded and pointless explanation into a speach bubble is impractical though. So regardless of whatever choice whatever translator made (and it's hard to make English sounding sentences without using he/she or anything else that gives away gender [usually it just makes a convoluted sentence and not worth the effort]), the underlying Japanese will not have had a gender associated with it.
Shiek927
2009-08-26, 10:50
The Japanese don't normally use "he" or "she".
Normally they omit it completely, as the subject is understood from context.
On the occasion they do say it, they either use the person's name, or a gender neutral "that person" (or in this case, I'm guessing Cid said yatsu(rascal) instead of person).
In Japanese the only time people seem to use "he/she" is when they are speaking to someone they are VERY close with - usually intimate with (boyfriend, girlfriend,husband,wife). As such, when it does appear, it's often translated as boyfriend/girlfriend instead of "he/she" (just like "anata"(you) is often translated as "darling").
*scratches head
That's just.......weird :confused:
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-26, 13:39
*scratches head
That's just.......weird :confused:
I thought Italian and French were crazy languages. I knew nothing.
hmm, I thought yatsu was "punk."
And yes, Japanese rarely uses I/He/She. "Watashi" which is often translated to "I" actually means "private." And I read somewhere that it was originally the one of the hardest words, if not the hardest, to translate, along with "society."
Japanese is very interesting though :) I read somewhere it is the hardest to learn along with Korean.
whitepearl
2009-08-26, 16:27
"Watashi" which is often translated to "I" actually means "private." And I read somewhere that it was originally the one of the hardest words, if not the hardest, to translate, along with "society."
The kanji for watashi is used in Chinese for words or ideas relating to private matters or privacy. The etymology is interesting, as it's based on grain being kept for oneself.
On the other hand:
OMG where is chapter 95?! :D
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-26, 16:43
New thread iyho?
nah not yet .... not even fake spoilers out :/
The Japanese don't normally use "he" or "she".
Normally they omit it completely, as the subject is understood from context.
On the occasion they do say it, they either use the person's name, or a gender neutral "that person" (or in this case, I'm guessing Cid said yatsu(rascal) instead of person).
In Japanese the only time people seem to use "he/she" is when they are speaking to someone they are VERY close with - usually intimate with (boyfriend, girlfriend,husband,wife). As such, when it does appear, it's often translated as boyfriend/girlfriend instead of "he/she" (just like "anata"(you) is often translated as "darling").
Cyclone, can the same thing be said for possessive pronouns? I'm asking 'cause when last month I picked up the licensed version of Claymore volume 15 we have here and read that the part where Cid tells Clare, in chapter 80, "When I asked if she was his" ( OM page 15 ), was translated "When I asked if she was yours", I felt something breaking inside. It's clearly a typo... I don't want to think the translator might have thought that Priscilla was Clare's daughter. It might have been omitted in Japanese and he added what was his opinion. I wish Claymore wasn't so poorly treated abroad.
I thought Italian and French were crazy languages. I knew nothing.
French isn't crazy. You only have to follow grammar rules and exceptions to the rules, pay attention to pronunciation, accents, and verb conjugation. Anyone can learn it. ;) And in Italian, at least, you pronounce the words exactly as they're written. :p Hungarian, Polish and Chinese are.
Well, I guess the original statement was a quote, like "is that child yours?"
Well, I guess the original statement was a quote, like "is that child yours?"
I can imagine the Claymore world story of this with TV coverage....
Opens featuring some blond-haired, silver-eyed, thin, white female anchor who has clearly been eating a few too many Claymore-verse poppies (like many famous people today do!):
"Scandal in the Warrior Ranks. The Organization's lowest-ranked warrior today announced that the ten year old boy following her was not in fact her bastard son. Meanwhile her superiors are refusing to comment. One anonymous source told the Rabona Inquirer quote, "No 47 is a real troublemaker, and I would not in the least bit be shocked if she got into bed with more than a few really drunk men to pass her off-days. As warriors do not age, and the Organization is refusing to identify the boy's father or mother, it seems more likely she is his mother."
(Without missing a blink, the anchor goes on) "Although we cannot confirm the sordid details of No 47's love life, we feel obligated to you to pursue them for as long as is ratings-savvy."
----------------------------------------
After Raki-Claire kiss
"We are getting disturbing reports in that the Organization is dealing with a surge of complaints from mothers that their young boys are being seduced by older, adult female warriors from the Organization. Plus, tonight at ten, grammar school teacher tells all about her affair with a teenage male student..."
-That to me, at least, was what Claire's kiss with Raki to me resembled. I'm not saying she's like one of the countless female teachers in the world who prey upon their impressionable male students, but it seems a little close for comfort. I don't know about Yagi's reasoning (maybe it was a male fantasy of his to have older women romancing him in his youth), but it does strike me as odd in Claymore for such a thing to happen. I mean, look at Miria and crew...they get drunk, and they still aren't shacking up with the guys at Rabona! One wonders if he considered what an image of a 16-18 year old Claire kissing a 10 year old boy would look like to the average reader....
clarakiss~
2009-08-26, 22:25
----------------------------------------
After Raki-Claire kiss
"We are getting disturbing reports in that the Organization is dealing with a surge of complaints from mothers that their young boys are being seduced by older, adult female warriors from the Organization. Plus, tonight at ten, grammar school teacher tells all about her affair with a teenage male student..."
-That to me, at least, was what Claire's kiss with Raki to me resembled. I'm not saying she's like one of the countless female teachers in the world who prey upon their impressionable male students, but it seems a little close for comfort. I don't know about Yagi's reasoning (maybe it was a male fantasy of his to have older women romancing him in his youth), but it does strike me as odd in Claymore for such a thing to happen. I mean, look at Miria and crew...they get drunk, and they still aren't shacking up with the guys at Rabona! One wonders if he considered what an image of a 16-18 year old Claire kissing a 10 year old boy would look like to the average reader....
i find this rather funny! lol nice work revan! i'm sure that's what yagi-sensei wished for and it never happen. :heh:
Shiek927
2009-08-26, 23:02
Guys, it's still too early ;)....let's say.....Sunday. I say Sunday is when we'll start seeing things, maybe Saturday if we're lucky.
French isn't crazy. You only have to follow grammar rules and exceptions to the rules, pay attention to pronunciation, accents, and verb conjugation. Anyone can learn it. And in Italian, at least, you pronounce the words exactly as they're written. Hungarian, Polish and Chinese are.
.............:twitch::eyespin:
Their's a phrase I'm looking for, I think it's "easier said then done" :heh:
ROFLMAO, Very funny Revan :heh::heh:
It's really something; all these older female teachers being caught in the act with younger males. Just goes to show that culture is changing.
On a more serious note though, while it's impossible to figure out what Yagi's reasoning was, if you asked me why the kiss happened, I will say it was simply to calm Raki down. I'm of the group that doesn't believe their is any actual romance between the two(not yet anyway) and they both view eachother in different ways. Raki was flipping out and she kissed him to make him stop. Was their any romance involved at the time? Hard to prove, but I'm leaning towards no. I'm of those who won't believe love is involved until I actually hear "I love you" coming from either of their mouths.
It's really something; all these older female teachers being caught in the act with younger males. Just goes to show that culture is changing.
On a more serious note though, while it's impossible to figure out what Yagi's reasoning was, if you asked me why the kiss happened, I will say it was simply to calm Raki down. I'm of the group that doesn't believe their is any actual romance between the two(not yet anyway) and they both view eachother in different ways. Raki was flipping out and she kissed him to make him stop. Was their any romance involved at the time? Hard to prove, but I'm leaning towards no. I'm of those who won't believe love is involved until I actually hear "I love you" coming from either of their mouths.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c38/vinak/barf-bag.jpg
Shiek927
2009-08-27, 00:38
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c38/vinak/barf-bag.jpg
..........You lost me completely :eyebrow:.
Galatea33
2009-08-27, 01:38
On a more serious note though, while it's impossible to figure out what Yagi's reasoning was, if you asked me why the kiss happened, I will say it was simply to calm Raki down. I'm of the group that doesn't believe their is any actual romance between the two(not yet anyway) and they both view eachother in different ways. Raki was flipping out and she kissed him to make him stop. Was their any romance involved at the time? Hard to prove, but I'm leaning towards no. I'm of those who won't believe love is involved until I actually hear "I love you" coming from either of their mouths.
:p
I also thought it bcos' of Raki reminds her so much of her past- and somehow it made Clare felt as a human again, which brings her attractiveness state to someone as old as 10 years old - as she was human back then ;)
oh just a thought :heh:
Negativedark
2009-08-27, 07:49
I figure Yagi wanted to try to set it up so having a romantic attraction between Claire and Raki post time skip wouldn't come out of nowhere. But, yeah the fact he was so young at the time does make it wierd.
hmm, I thought yatsu was "punk."
And yes, Japanese rarely uses I/He/She. "Watashi" which is often translated to "I" actually means "private." And I read somewhere that it was originally the one of the hardest words, if not the hardest, to translate, along with "society."
Japanese is very interesting though :) I read somewhere it is the hardest to learn along with Korean.
it really depends on context how you'd translate "yatsu" I guess. If said with anger/malice, like Cid did, then yeah, punk or even bastard/bitch would probably be a better translation, but if said without malice (which it can be), I prefer rascal or some such equivalent. It's kinda hard with synonyms, since there is usually no 1 to 1 mapping that works in all cases.
As for "watashi" that one is used (except when it is again omited due to context - which is common enough).
The kanji's are weird - I'm studying them more now. The kanji used for "kimi" for example - the japanese informal word for "you" used among young people - is a kanji meaning "noble".
Hmm, I thought "kimi" was "old boy."
Actually, the Japanese is pretty sarcastic. Look up for "kisama" which is an insult but if read by the kanji, it would mean "precious sir" :)
Hmm, I thought "kimi" was "old boy."
Actually, the Japanese is pretty sarcastic. Look up for "kisama" which is an insult but if read by the kanji, it would mean "precious sir" :)
I mean the meaning of the kanji historically.
Today, kimi has evolved to mean "you" in normal modern converseation.
WWWJDIC:
君(P); 公 【きみ】 (pn,adj-no) (1) (used colloquially by young females) (male) (fam) you; buddy; pal; (2) (arch) monarch; ruler; sovereign; (one's) master
A kanji teaching program I have says it means "noble" (historically).
personally, I have never seen any other definition than "you/buddy/pal" used for kimi. (I've only seen the original meaning of 'watashi' as 'private' used once - every other time it I've seen it, it simple means "I")
Knowing the historical mean is useful for understanding how various compunds words (words with more than one kanji) came to mean what they mean.
sonotme_9FedriqSama
2009-08-27, 11:02
chapter 94 thread don't seem o have much posts in it....why I wonder...sorry guys I wasnt around much....I won't be there a another two weeks due to work...but i'll come have a look when chapter 95 releases
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-27, 11:33
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c38/vinak/barf-bag.jpg
daf***?
Anyways, I highly doubt there isn't some kind of reciproval feeling between the two of them. Raki isn't the only one who'se been searching for Clare high and low all over the continent after all. And let's not forget this scene here:
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000045/000161872/23.jpg
She actually referred to Raki as a loved one whom she swore to find and reunite with even if it costs her her life. Now tell me, is there not a sense of romance there?
Shiek927
2009-08-27, 13:41
:p
I also thought it bcos' of Raki reminds her so much of her past- and somehow it made Clare felt as a human again, which brings her attractiveness state to someone as old as 10 years old - as she was human back then ;)
oh just a thought :heh:
I'm pretty much the same.
To Raki, Claire is his savior, his everything, the one he wants to be like. To Claire, Raki is her purpose, what makes her feel human again.
She actually referred to Raki as a loved one whom she swore to find and reunite with even if it costs her her life. Now tell me, is there not a sense of romance there?
Just because she calls him a loved one doesn't necessarily entitle romance. Love does not automatically equal romance.
It's not that I don't like Claire x Raki, I do, I just don't think their is any real romance yet, or at least anything 100% official. Yes, they love eachother, that much is certain, but that doesn't necessarily mean they want to run off and get married.
Roflmao, Vinak, that's what you thought when you saw that scene?
To be honest, I kind of saw it coming in a way, but it still felt unlikely. I was just as surprised as anyone when it actually happened.
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-27, 13:46
Just because she calls him a loved one doesn't necessarily entitle romance. Love does not automatically equal romance.
It's not that I don't like Claire x Raki, I do, I just don't think their is any real romance yet, or at least anything 100% official. Yes, they love eachother, that much is certain, but that doesn't necessarily mean they want to run off and get married.
Well, I agree that they're not gonna run off and get married. But considering Clare kissed Raki, and then tells someone else that she loves him, I'd say there is a romantic feeling between them. I don't see Clare as the type of person who'd kiss someone just to shut him up, not unless she was on a mission. Clare was running and trying to save his life, so I highly doubt she was acting like a prostitute just then. And she seemed very truthful when she referred to Raki as a loved one.
MisterJB
2009-08-27, 13:57
Shiek: in that chapter, Clare (disguised as a man) had been telling everyone she met that she was searching for her missing brother. However, when she met someone who had actually seen Raki, she hesitated and she said instead that she was looking for a loved one. So, that means that Clare loves Raki more than she could love a brother.
Shiek927
2009-08-27, 14:05
To both of you, I once again say, I have nothing against Claire x Raki. I wouldn't be surprised if their really was underlying feelings. I'm just saying that I'd prefer to hear a "I love you" from one of them before give in 100%.
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-27, 14:13
Fair game, though I believe a public declaration of love toward someone like Clare's here is as good as any.
clarakiss~
2009-08-27, 15:49
i'm a fan of clare x raki too! i wrote fic of them being together but in truth i don't want them to be in a lovey-dovey relationship. shocking? no. reason is raki may want to have a family down the road (that is if he survives) and clare can't give that to him. :p
but raki means much more to clare. she sorta looked sad when sid told her that raki had a child with him and is probably his.
Shiek927
2009-08-27, 15:55
i'm a fan of clare x raki too! i wrote fic of them being together but in truth i don't want them to be in a lovey-dovey relationship. shocking? no. reason is raki may want to have a family down the road (that is if he survives) and clare can't give that to him. :p
but raki means much more to clare. she sorta looked sad when sid told her that raki had a child with him and is probably his.
It's why I said that their are all kinds of love, not just romantic. Claire and Raki DO love eachother, that much is obvious, but is it the "lovey-dovey" kind? We don't actually know that yet.
I do think however, that as time goes by, the odds of them being in such a romantic relationship increase.
Unfortunately, all they will have is their love because, like you said, she can't bear children.
I'm honestly curious to see what exactly was going on in Claires head when Sid told him about the girl he had with him. Was she simply curious and intrigued? upset that perhaps he's had a family? jealous that he's found someone to care and protect for other then her?
I don't think it's something we'll ever get a clear answer for.
MisterJB
2009-08-27, 15:57
she can't bear children.
That is yet to be proved. We shall see what Yagi does.
Shiek927
2009-08-27, 16:19
That is yet to be proved. We shall see what Yagi does.
Granted, but I extremely doubt she could. I doubt the Organization would ever allow such a thing to occur.....
....On the other hand, it does bring up a curious question: if they could bear children, would they be stronger?
Instead of being born human and undergoing the operation, do you think a half(or quarter, or whatever)-Yoma and a fully human being could create a hybrid child that's naturally stronger then Claymores because they were naturally born instead of having an operation?
The whole idea of children is something that should be explored in the future.
clarakiss~
2009-08-27, 16:22
Granted, but I extremely doubt she could. I doubt the Organization would ever allow such a thing to occur.....
....On the other hand, it does bring up a curious question: if they could bear children, would they be stronger?
Instead of being born human and undergoing the operation, do you think a half(or quarter, or whatever)-Yoma and a fully human being could create a hybrid child that's naturally stronger then Claymores because they were naturally born instead of having an operation?
The whole idea of children is something that should be explored in the future.
i'd rather not see this happening and the org most definitely won't either. it'd be bad for the org period.
MisterJB
2009-08-27, 16:26
Granted, but I extremely doubt she could. I doubt the Organization would ever allow such a thing to occur.....
It is true that the Org would probrably try to avoid it. However, why would the Org go as far as to destroy their reproductive organs?
The chances of a Claymore getting pregnant are extremely low, there are few human men in the Continent that would even get close to a Claymore, let alone sleep with her.
And if a Claymore ever appeared pregnant, the Org could just send her in a suicide mission.
Yorae_paladin1
2009-08-27, 17:10
It is true that the Org would probrably try to avoid it. However, why would the Org go as far as to destroy their reproductive organs?
The chances of a Claymore getting pregnant are extremely low, there are few human men in the Continent that would even get close to a Claymore, let alone sleep with her.
And if a Claymore ever appeared pregnant, the Org could just send her in a suicide mission.
what really frightening of that is what if claymores if they were reproduction capable start seeking awakened being males same with awakened being male/female couplings.
it would start a population explosion that could be dangerous.
but still they probably can't do so otherwise riful and dauf would be pumping several little awakened out
MisterJB
2009-08-27, 17:18
what really frightening of that is what if claymores if they were reproduction capable start seeking awakened being males same with awakened being male/female couplings.
it would start a population explosion that could be dangerous.
but still they probably can't do so otherwise riful and dauf would be pumping several little awakened out
Awakened Beings are considered to be Claymore's natural enemies so, I don't see many female Claymores seeking an males Awakened Being's company.
As for male AB/female AB, who knows? Maybe some of the ABs that we have seen are sons of other Awakened Beings.
As for Riful and Dauf, have in mind that Riful Awakened when she was still a child so, she probrably never reached the age where she could have children.
Still, here is a tought. We know that Awakening fully regenerates the body. The hair and the eyes returns to it's original color and the scar dissapears. So, even if Claymores had their reproductives organs destroyed by the Org, we can assume that Awakening would heal them. So, why would it be impossible for the ABs to have children?
Awakened Beings are considered to be Claymore's natural enemies so, I don't see many female Claymores seeking an males Awakened Being's company.
As for male AB/female AB, who knows? Maybe some of the ABs that we have seen are sons of other Awakened Beings.
As for Riful and Dauf, have in mind that Riful Awakened when she was still a child so, she probrably never reached the age where she could have children.
Still, here is a tought. We know that Awakening fully regenerates the body. The hair and the eyes returns to it's original color and the scar dissapears. So, even if Claymores had their reproductives organs destroyed by the Org, we can assume that Awakening would heal them. So, why would it be impossible for the ABs to have children?
While I agree with your general logic... I have a rhetorical question, what if they're neutered before becoming half-human half-yoma warriors? So, could they then regenerate their reproductive organs? Since we don't have any examples of Claymore who lost body parts when they where human... only after becoming Claymores.
Shiek927
2009-08-27, 18:35
It is true that the Org would probrably try to avoid it. However, why would the Org go as far as to destroy their reproductive organs?
The chances of a Claymore getting pregnant are extremely low, there are few human men in the Continent that would even get close to a Claymore, let alone sleep with her.
And if a Claymore ever appeared pregnant, the Org could just send her in a suicide mission.
Why bother going through all that effort if they could just destroy their reproductive organs? Why bother taking chances, low as they are, when you can just make them sterile quickly?
what really frightening of that is what if claymores if they were reproduction capable start seeking awakened being males same with awakened being male/female couplings.
it would start a population explosion that could be dangerous.
but still they probably can't do so otherwise riful and dauf would be pumping several little awakened out
*starts thinking of In Fire and Raki and Priscilla's children
But your last part, I'm honestly giving them the benefit of the doubt. Claymores no....but what's to say that Awakened aren't capable of bearing children? Their body heals and their scars are removed...I honestly think the odds of Awakening being capable of reproduction is alot higher then a Claymore who, I believe, are all sterile.
Riful obviously hadn't reached puberty so she's most likely out of the picture, though no one can say anything for sure. It's possible that Awaken can control the birth process in their bodies and abort the baby if they choose to.
MisterJB
2009-08-27, 18:40
While I agree with your general logic... I have a rhetorical question, what if they're neutered before becoming half-human half-yoma warriors? So, could they then regenerate their reproductive organs? Since we don't have any examples of Claymore who lost body parts when they where human... only after becoming Claymores.
I remember Irene asking Raphaela if her scar was from her human life. That leads me to believe that injuries sustained while humans, can't be recovered after becoming Claymores.
However, Raciella has two eyes on both of her faces, so, I think that Awakening can probrably even heal scars that the Awakened Being received before being "claymorized".
Shiek927
2009-08-27, 18:45
I remember Irene asking Raphaela if her scar was from her human life. That leads me to believe that injuries sustained while humans, can't be recovered after becoming Claymores.
However, Raciella has two eyes on both of her faces, so, I think that Awakening can probrably even heal scars that the Awakened Being received before being "claymorized".
That's the beauty and irony about Awakening - Being a Claymore makes you worse then when you were human; leaving scars, mutilating your body inside and out, bleaching yourself, depriving of normal bodily functions, it's like your in a frozen state. Awakening, not only heals the injuries and damage your body had as both a human and a Claymore, it returns you visually, to your original state and gives you back the functions you had as a human.
And the biggest irony of all - you're not even human anymore to begin with.
MisterJB
2009-08-27, 18:47
That's the beauty and irony about Awakening - Being a Claymore makes you worse then when you were human; leaving scars, mutilating your body inside and out, bleaching yourself, depriving of normal bodily functions, it's like your in a frozen state. Awakening, not only heals the injuries and damage your body had as both a human and a Claymore, it returns you visually, to your original state and gives you back the functions you had as a human.
And the biggest irony of all - you're not even human anymore to begin with.
So, quoting from an fanfic, Awakened Beings are more humans than the humans themselves. Because frankly, being an Awakened is way better than being a human.
Yorae_paladin1
2009-08-27, 18:49
So, quoting from an fanfic, Awakened Beings are more humans than the humans themselves. Because frankly, being an Awakened is way better than being a human.
well if you like murdering people for food then yeah it sbetter
MisterJB
2009-08-27, 18:52
well if you like murdering people for food then yeah it sbetter
No but, regenerating from any wound is better. Super strength, speed, longevity. Imunity to poisons. It's pretty awesome if you ask me.
And, I could answer with the whole Riful/Jean speech but, that would be better discussed in the "Morality of ABs" thread.
Shiek927
2009-08-27, 19:38
So, quoting from an fanfic, Awakened Beings are more humans than the humans themselves. Because frankly, being an Awakened is way better than being a human.
My thoughts exactly.
I remember saying this a looong time ago(http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2414859&postcount=1965), and my feelings haven't changed, but if I were a Claymore, their is a fairly good chance I would awaken freely just for the sake of it. The differences just don't seem to matter anymore and the benefits are plenty.
well if you like murdering people for food then yeah it sbetter
Priscilla's been doing fine for seven years. You may call it an exception due to her astronomical yoki, but I think we're gonna get to a point where we find out how an Awakened can sustain themselves with eating innards.
No but, regenerating from any wound is better. Super strength, speed, longevity. Imunity to poisons. It's pretty awesome if you ask me.
And, I could answer with the whole Riful/Jean speech but, that would be better discussed in the "Morality of ABs" thread.
I wouldn't want to awaken it's a sort of death, it's hinted pretty early on that when you awaken everything that make's you the person you are dies and is replaced by something else.
Shiek927
2009-08-27, 20:08
I wouldn't want to awaken it's a sort of death, it's hinted pretty early on that when you awaken everything that make's you the person you are dies and is replaced by something else.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2440302&postcount=863
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2451698&postcount=1133
Got a few more scattered around.
By what Newhope? We know personality doesn't change, intellect doesn''t change....what does Awakening do to you?
Other then the things I mentioned, the grappling instinctive force etc...their really isn't anything inheretly different or "evil" about being an Awakened.
MisterJB
2009-08-27, 20:11
I wouldn't want to awaken it's a sort of death, it's hinted pretty early on that when you awaken everything that make's you the person you are dies and is replaced by something else.
I disagree. I don't think it's dying, it's more like being twisted into something else.
For example, let's imagine that you suddenly received Abyssal Powers. The only catch is that you have to feed on human's entrails. So, you just received imortallity, Abyssal strength, speed, regeneration and everything else.
Don't you think that anyone would go nuts with that and become different of what they used to be?
The exceptions that we know are Hilda and Ophelia (who was already nuts to begin with)
Shiek927
2009-08-27, 20:26
I disagree. I don't think it's dying, it's more like being twisted into something else.
Awakening only changes you as much as you let it. More then once have I compared it to a drug, alcohol, etc etc. Do you let it control you and take over your life? or not?
Some like Isley and Priscilla, say No. Others like Riful, couldn't care less.
That's the beauty and irony about Awakening - Being a Claymore makes you worse then when you were human; leaving scars, mutilating your body inside and out, bleaching yourself, depriving of normal bodily functions, it's like your in a frozen state. Awakening, not only heals the injuries and damage your body had as both a human and a Claymore, it returns you visually, to your original state and gives you back the functions you had as a human.
And the biggest irony of all - you're not even human anymore to begin with.
You know, this got me thinking. What if the ultimate marker of how successful the controlled awakening of a person was if they were to have their hair color revert and their body's wounds heal? Can you imagine if Claire were to fully awaken and then revert? The question that needs to be asked is, if she reverted somehow, would her body remain fully awakened (excepting for hunger) and thus her appearance greatly change?
I mean, can anyone else here imagine a brown or red-haired Claire in the future? I thought her original hair color was red, but I can't remember. One wonders if the Org's ultimate goal is people as powerful as Awakened Beings but thinking like humans. Claire would be just like Deneve's description of a "little monster" filled with spite then, wouldn't she?
Shiek927
2009-08-27, 21:11
You know, this got me thinking. What if the ultimate marker of how successful the controlled awakening of a person was if they were to have their hair color revert and their body's wounds heal? Can you imagine if Claire were to fully awaken and then revert? The question that needs to be asked is, if she reverted somehow, would her body remain fully awakened (excepting for hunger) and thus her appearance greatly change?
I mean, can anyone else here imagine a brown or red-haired Claire in the future? I thought her original hair color was red, but I can't remember. One wonders if the Org's ultimate goal is people as powerful as Awakened Beings but thinking like humans. Claire would be just like Deneve's description of a "little monster" filled with spite then, wouldn't she?
In other words, Awakening without having to eat humans?
Well, like I said, the answer will probably be revealed in the future. Yes, I can definitely imagine a red-haired awakened Claire in the future. It wouldn't surprise me whatsoever if Yagi intends for Claire to awaken.
Awakened
2009-08-27, 22:27
Awakening is almost like letting your evil side take over. You become unable to resist the urge to eat humans. You can fight it, but most people are to weak minded to win.
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-28, 01:07
Awakening is almost like letting your evil side take over. You become unable to resist the urge to eat humans. You can fight it, but most people are to weak minded to win.
Be that as it may, I am quite expecting Clare will one day awaken and reveal her full power. I'm guessing this might happen when she meets Priscilla and gets taken in by her quest for revenge. But with the memories of Raffaella, I also wouldn't be surprised if Clare obtains greater control over her powers and is able to revert back.
Awakened
2009-08-28, 02:49
Be that as it may, I am quite expecting Clare will one day awaken and reveal her full power. I'm guessing this might happen when she meets Priscilla and gets taken in by her quest for revenge. But with the memories of Raffaella, I also wouldn't be surprised if Clare obtains greater control over her powers and is able to revert back.
I can't wait to see Clare awaken.
Sleepy Speculator
2009-08-28, 05:24
a downer ending? bit early for that speculation isn't it?
Awakened
2009-08-28, 10:11
Clare was designed to eventually awaken.
1/4 yoma
strong wild
sensing
capable of yoki alignment
Quick-sword: A technique that require her to constantly awaken one arm
Surrounded by sensors, not to mention the best ever, God eye Galatea.
Rafaela's memory (an expert in soul-link): Soul-link is the only thing that lest an ordinary Claymore awaken and then revert back to their Claymore form.
Constantly goes over her limit
Has already partially and then half awakened
She has part of a human inside of her, This could make a huge difference. Considering that soul-link require tow people. Emphasis on could. I'm not suggesting that Teresa would come back. I'm thinking Teresa personality might have been transfer to Clare. We have already seen Teresa's influence on Clare in the Slasher-act. If Clare has a weak moment, her Teresa side might be able to take over.
The goal of the Org is to have a Claymore that can awaken without losing control. Ruble predicted that Clare is close to what the Org wants.
Edit:
I think Clare would be able to awaken and return to normal by herself. Miria, Helen and Deneven would need the other sensors to help them awaken.
Miria has her personal sensor, Tabeta.:D
I'm hopping the manga don't come to and end when Clare awakens. There would have to be lots of powerful enemies in the future.
Clare need to go back to her tricks when fighting. Quick-Sword it to over powered.
Shiek927
2009-08-28, 10:41
I see Claire awakening down the road, a very very good chance of happening, especially if and when she ends up meeting Priscilla.
irvinethearcher
2009-08-28, 10:41
IMO yagi gave many hints that clares fate will have to do something with the twin goddess statue and that teresa will still be a part of it.
1. Hint: in the holy scriptures the names of the goddesses are clare and theresa;)
2. Hint: before clare fought the paburo ab theresa appeared as a figure of light in her dream and looked in the same way as renee looked when she appeared in raciella's consciousness or clare when rafaella gave her her memories. After that little sparring clare seemed totally exhausted and slept an entire night in the mud and rain. To much exhaustion IMO for someone who was already half-awakened.
To me it seemed more that she had to digest what teresa gave her. But to bad that this would contradict with the fact that clare after receiving rafaella's memory seems to be still fit for battle. Another explanation would be that theresa was only able to communicate with clare because of the exhaustion and the exhaustion was natural.
3. Hint: Clare was able to reconstruct rafaella's consciousness from her memories she had of rafaella. And it was not much. Clare had much more memories of teresa and she has the flesh of her implanted inside of her. Against that would stand that theresa was already dead and exists only as flesh in clare but rafaella had still somthing as a human body.
4. Hint: Rafaella is in a way connected with her already dead sister like clare is with theresa. Clare's advantage is that theresa never awakened and her half-awakened state. So a fusion between those two would become more human.
Claymores seem to be able to gain her energy from mere food. Perhaps if a claymore would somehow be able to destroy the yoma or new consciousness inside of her which seems to be in control after the awakening they are still able to gain her energy from normal food but have all the abilities an awakened being has. Including merging into a subconsciously desired form and using yoki but still having their human mind and don't have to rely on guts. Like someone above already mentioned, it would be cool if they regain her original haircolour.
Here i have to admit that we still don't know what really happens when a claymore awakens. Gangsta said that the human consciousness dies and is replaced by some yoma consciousness. I believe that too. And rafaella explained it to clare in the same way. So perhaps the half-awakenings strengthen somehow the human consciousnes and weaken somehow the sleeping yoma consciousness? Nah, somehow i don't like the last sentence. Who knows what really happens...
Awakened
2009-08-28, 11:02
IMO yagi gave many hints that clares fate will have to do something with the twin goddess statue and that teresa will still be a part of it.
1. Hint: in the holy scriptures the names of the goddesses are clare and theresa;)
2. Hint: before clare fought the paburo ab theresa appeared as a figure of light in her dream and looked in the same way as renee looked when she appeared in raciella's consciousness or clare when rafaella gave her her memories. After that little sparring clare seemed totally exhausted and slept an entire night in the mud and rain. To much exhaustion IMO for someone who was already half-awakened.
To me it seemed more that she had to digest what teresa gave her. But to bad that this would contradict with the fact that clare after receiving rafaella's memory seems to be still fit for battle. Another explanation would be that theresa was only able to communicate with clare because of the exhaustion and the exhaustion was natural.
3. Hint: Clare was able to reconstruct rafaella's consciousness from her memories she had of rafaella. And it was not much. Clare had much more memories of teresa and she has the flesh of her implanted inside of her. Against that would stand that theresa was already dead and exists only as flesh in clare but rafaella had still somthing as a human body.
4. Hint: Rafaella is in a way connected with her already dead sister like clare is with theresa. Clare's advantage is that theresa never awakened and her half-awakened state. So a fusion between those two would become more human.
Claymores seem to be able to gain her energy from mere food. Perhaps if a claymore would somehow be able to destroy the yoma or new consciousness inside of her which seems to be in control after the awakening they are still able to gain her energy from normal food but have all the abilities an awakened being has. Including merging into a subconsciously desired form and using yoki but still having their human mind and don't have to rely on guts. Like someone above already mentioned, it would be cool if they regain her original haircolour.
Here i have to admit that we still don't know what really happens when a claymore awakens. Gangsta said that the human consciousness dies and is replaced by some yoma consciousness. I believe that too. And rafaella explained it to clare in the same way. So perhaps the half-awakenings strengthen somehow the human consciousnes and weaken somehow the sleeping yoma consciousness? Nah, somehow i don't like the last sentence. Who knows what really happens...
We don't know why Awakens need to eat humans. It could be because it taste good, but it could also be the fastest way to replenish a large amount of yoki. Since Claymores do not eat humans, eating humans might not be a necessity. If its not, why did Priscilla stop eating?
It could be that Raki was only talking about humans, or Priscilla was just afraid to eat.
irvinethearcher
2009-08-28, 11:07
I think we know why awakened needs to eat guts. It is because the yomas have too eat guts too.
I think if a claymore awakenes and the yoma consciousness replaces the human consciousness like it was the case with priscilla and it is normal, the being has to eat guts in order to survive. Otherwise it will shrink and die.
My theorie is now if a claymore is somehow able to kill the yoma consciousness inside of her and survive the awakening process she will be able to gain her energie with normal food.
claymores use normal food in small amounts to replenish their huge energie reserves, so the scenario i described above seems not impossible. It is all about the consciousness which is in charge during the awakening process.
But this is not really solid at all.
Awakened
2009-08-28, 11:16
I think if a claymore awakenes and the yoma consciousness replaces the human consciousness like it was the case with priscilla and it is normal, the being has to eat guts.
My theorie is now if a claymore is somehow able to kill the yoma consciousness inside of her and survive the awakening process she will be able to gain her energie with normal food.
claymores use normal food in small amounts to replenish their huge energie reserves, so the scenario i described above seems not impossible.
But this is not really solid at all.
I don't disagree with you. It just seems to me that yoki is yoki. Yoki in a Claymore is the same as yoki in an Awaken. If food is good enough for a Claymore, why does Priscilla have to stop eating.
irvinethearcher
2009-08-28, 11:21
Probably because of the awakening process in which the youma consciousness is in charge and somehow changes the organism in a way that it after awakening can gain his energy/yoki only form guts. (my theory)
I don't think that priscilla can survive from consuming normal food. I think too that yoki is yoki, probably something like ATP.
Slash_Emperor
2009-08-28, 11:25
Humans are neccessary nutrition for Yoma and Awakened Beings. They are not neccessary, on the other hand, for a Claymore. That's the only real difference between Awakened Beings and Claymores - the fact that the former need to eat humans. Otherwise, since Awakened Beings have the ability to regain their personality and control, presumably after a while of rampaging, Awakening wouldn't be such a bad thing.
At any rate, I can't envision the future of Claymore without seeing Clare's Awakened form. Personally I'd like a bad ending where Clare Awakens, releasing all of Teresa's power in the process, and... well, I'm sure the insane amounts of ownage that will ensue are easy to imagine.
EDIT: Also, I highly doubt Yoma only eat guts. Perhaps they're just the tastiest part.
irvinethearcher
2009-08-28, 11:37
I don't think that this is the only difference. The awakened beings mostly seem to have a personality a human would consider sardistic and evil. Hilda was perhaps an exception or now the to childhood regressed priscilla or isley at the end. But still for me the AB's pesonality is a mixture of the human mind and that of a yoma in the most cases.
Awakened
2009-08-28, 11:42
I wrote a theory on this long ago, I might try and find it. Claymore not needing guts might have to do with them still having human organs that can digest regular food.
Edit:
Miria talk about partial awakened Claymore's body changing.
Awakened
2009-08-28, 11:57
I think it was Gangsta that first came up with the theory that Yoki is a parasite. They feed on humans in Claymore form, but when awaken they need to eat humans to get their food.
Shiek927
2009-08-28, 12:12
All we know, is that their is something about human innards that makes it necessary for them to live. Ironic because they hate anything with yoki.
Priscilla isn't eating anymore because of Raki. I find it hard to believe that he doesn't try cooking for her, which pretty much implies that it doesn't work. She's most likely living off her astronomical yoki reserves to sustain herself, something that's gonna catch up to her sooner or later.
Slash_Emperor
2009-08-28, 12:51
I don't think that this is the only difference. The awakened beings mostly seem to have a personality a human would consider sardistic and evil. Hilda was perhaps an exception or now the to childhood regressed priscilla or isley at the end. But still for me the AB's pesonality is a mixture of the human mind and that of a yoma in the most cases.
I believe that Awakened Beings simply just... stop caring about morals and crap after they Awaken. Of course, instinct plays a large role in the deterioration of their ethics code, as well as the fact that eating human is, inherently, considered evil by those who belonged to the human race. But like you said, Hilda held back to allow herself to be killed, Isley was pretty much capable of controlling his instincts and only eating the bare minimum he required to live... it's not a stretch to say that once you get a bit 'used' to the Awakened form, you can suppress your instincts and act normally, provided you have the neccessary willpower and more importantly desire to do so. But of course, you can't stop yourself from feeling the need to eat. Priscilla not eating for so many years just proves that, as was said, she has that much Yoki that she can live off it without the need to feed to replenish her energy.
Jasperboo
2009-08-28, 18:45
Maybe Clares awakened form is Teresa :eyespin:
williamaugustus
2009-08-28, 19:19
Maybe Clares awakened form is Teresa :eyespin:
or maybe when she is awakened her human form is either Teresa or Clare. that would be kinda funny. or if it were a cross between the two...
clarakiss~
2009-08-28, 19:24
her awakened form is probably going to be similar to priscilla/alicia/rigardo form. they're all small awakened form but all are quite deadly. and clare would match up well in a small form to fight prissy. a large form would be awkward...
MisterJB
2009-08-28, 19:28
her awakened form is probably going to be similar to priscilla/alicia/rigardo form.
How do you do that?:eyespin:
BTW, my bias for Rigardo just makes me say this word: Threesome.
I'll go to the corner now.
clarakiss~
2009-08-28, 19:34
How do you do that?:eyespin:
BTW, my bias for Rigardo just makes me say this word: Threesome.
I'll go to the corner now.
i meant it like in a small form like those three i've mentioned. not all of them fused together. i think clare's well suited for a small awakened form imho. :)
Clare seems to have horse legs...so she probably will be like Easley...
clarakiss~
2009-08-28, 19:39
priscilla's form + isley's form = clare's awakened form is a unicorn :heh:
MisterJB
2009-08-28, 19:40
Clare seems to have horse legs...so she probably will be like Easley...
Having hoofs doesn't automatically means she'll be a horse.
I'm more inclined to a deer-like form.
Having hoofs doesn't automatically means she'll be a horse.
I'm more inclined to a deer-like form.
Or a cow :heh:
clarakiss~
2009-08-28, 19:50
or a donkey cuz she's a former # 47! lol who votes for a donkey?! *raises hand* i do! clare's such an a** sometimes.
Shiek927
2009-08-28, 20:17
I'm of the opinion that Claire's form will be greatly like a Devil, or some sort of demon. It greatly reflects her life and personality and is a perfect foil for Priscilla who is a fallen angel.
MisterJB
2009-08-28, 20:26
I'm calling it now. 95 ends with Clare and Raki seeing each other from a distance.
That or Riful's death panel.
Hopefully both.
Shiek927
2009-08-28, 20:48
I'm calling it now. 95 ends with Clare and Raki seeing each other from a distance.
That or Riful's death panel.
Hopefully both.
Hopefully neither 0_0
It'll feel too much like a rush if Raki goes straight there. He's more likely to try to help the people hurt in the town he's in right now(look at his horrified face).
As for Riful...she'll die, but I'm sure the chapter will end with something else, at least some sort of cliffhanger to keep us excited. Isley's death panel wasn't the last thing that chapter.
MisterJB
2009-08-28, 21:11
Or a cow :heh:
I'm telling you, it's a deer. Clare'll be the new Bambi. After all, Clare is similar to the annoying little deer.
Bambi had his mother killed too.
Shiek927
2009-08-28, 21:21
Bambi had his mother killed too.
Are you saying the hunter shooting her was a set-up? :heh:
i imagine Clare's awakened form would resemble demonic Pegasus in a humanoid form.(basically standing upright rather than like a centaur)
black mane with bladed wings.
http://dl2.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1241/1241192kt2gxur63o.jpg
or a more mechanical, and feminine version of Abel Nightroad from Trinity blood at ~80% release. :p
http://darthstitch.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/milkteacover2.jpg
I'm telling you, it's a deer. Clare'll be the new Bambi. After all, Clare is similar to the annoying little deer.
Bambi had his mother killed too.
I was also thinking that she may be a stag rather than what i mentioned above. but I like the idea of Clare having wings.
MisterJB
2009-08-28, 21:26
Are you saying the hunter shooting her was a set-up? :heh:
it was all a very intrincated plot that involved the Knigths who say Ni.
You need to read between the lines.
Seriously, tough. I think that something stag-like would be a pretty cool Awakened Form for Clare.
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-29, 02:08
it was all a very intrincated plot that involved the Knigths who say Ni.
You need to read between the lines.
Seriously, tough. I think that something stag-like would be a pretty cool Awakened Form for Clare.
Oh wow, we did a little spoof of that in High School, and I was King Arthur. The Knight who say Ni are a truly Terrifying force. :heh:
I was thinking that Clare's form would be very much like Lucifer's form in the end. The legs seem to suggest that much, but I'm also thinking it might be similar to a Gazelle's should she resemble an animal of some kind.
I expect Clare awakened orm to look like scary verion of succubus: a hot woman (devil) with wings, hoofs and horns. Nice succubus model (http://www.coolminiornot.com/store/product.php?xProd=2031)
Galatea33
2009-08-29, 04:52
Oh O_o I thought she would be somewhat like Phoenix on her upper part :rolleyes: that'd be cool ^^
Edit: and I vote for the donkey too :heh:
clarakiss~
2009-08-29, 05:03
Edit: and I vote for the donkey too :heh:
ahahaha! comrade lateaa~a! i'm glad you also see things from my point of view and nothing'll get in our way indeed! *points toward the setting sun* :heh:
Galatea33
2009-08-29, 05:05
*brings watermelon and picnic basket also :D
Slash_Emperor
2009-08-29, 08:24
Once she Awakened her legs, they became those white hoove-like things. Once she Awakened her left arm it became a wing made of blades. So... blade-winged pegasus / gryphon?
Still, that doesn't look too good. It's probably going to be something humanoid, to make the fight with Priscilla more epic.
sonotme_9FedriqSama
2009-08-29, 08:31
I know one thing for sure...one of her hand will be different...that'll make her body completely different...rather than one entity...it'll be more like fusion...kinda like what happened with Raciella
I was thinking more about her speed rather than her appearance. I mean half awakened and that much speed. Wonder how much it would be when fully awakened. I mean would their be anyone that could catch her or keep up with her.:)
I was thinking more about her speed rather than her appearance. I mean half awakened and that much speed. Wonder how much it would be when fully awakened. I mean would their be anyone that could catch her or keep up with her.:)
Yes, there will be. Awakened Miria! :p
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-29, 10:25
I was thinking more about her speed rather than her appearance. I mean half awakened and that much speed. Wonder how much it would be when fully awakened. I mean would their be anyone that could catch her or keep up with her.:)
If Miria awakened, she would undoubtedly be much faster than Clare. It's strange though that Clare's natural awakened form would be heavily speed-based when he normal powers are Youki reading thanks to Teresa. And then there's the fact that her right arm is Irene's, which makes me believe that her left arm will be entirely different from her right. It might be something that goes well with her legs' appearance. When I saw Clare's partly awakened form, I had the sense that Clare was misshapen, that something wasn't right about her. Her arm and her legs didn't look good together.
If Miria awakened, she would undoubtedly be much faster than Clare. It's strange though that Clare's natural awakened form would be heavily speed-based when he normal powers are Youki reading. And then there's the fact that her right arm is Irene's, which makes me believe that her left arm will be entirely different from her right. It might be something that goes well with her legs' appearance. When I saw Clare's partly awakened form, I had the sense that Clare was misshapen, that something wasn't right about her. Her arm and her legs didn't look good together.
:D Well maybe thats what you get when you put thogether:
Awakened Teresa
Awakened Irene
Awakened Clare
The general rule says that Miria should definitely be much faster, but you never know with things like this. I mean I'm not against Miria being the fastest awakened or anythin, it's just that you would never know.:)
If Miria awakened, she would undoubtedly be much faster than Clare.(...)
I don't think so. Don't forget that Clare has Teresa inside (she's potential abyssal one, possibly even stronger) and that Miria was slower than Rigaldo. While Miria is fast, I doubt that after awakening she would be faster than abyssals. Look at how fast Riful disappeared or Alicia and Beth appeared.
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-29, 12:05
I don't think so. Don't forget that Clare has Teresa inside (she's potential abyssal one, possibly even stronger) and that Miria was slower than Rigaldo. While Miria is fast, I doubt that after awakening she would be faster than abyssals. Look at how fast Riful disappeared or Alicia and Beth appeared.
I said so myself in that same post you quoted that Clare has Teresa's power, so I'm well aware of that. Teresa's ability was Youki reading. That's where Clare got her powers from. All of Teresa's other skills were essentially no better than everyone else's. Irene said so herself that the only reason Teresa is able to keep up with everybody and appear better than everyone in their own specialty is because she was able to read their movements before they even happened. That is not speed, but a form of enhanced intuition.
Should Teresa have awakened, her special ability would greatly increase along with her general physical skills. Miria's special ability is speed. As an awakened being, her special ability would become much stronger than it was before. It wouldn't make sense if the Claymore who has shown to have the greatest physical speed amongst virtually all Claymores we've seen to date (as in those who haven't awakened) wouldn't experience an even more dramatic boost in her speed.
Yes, Miria was slower than Rigaldo. The key point is that Rigaldo was awakened. Miria was not. Riful was also awakened, whereas Miria was not. Alicia and Beth have proven themselves to be incredibly fast as well, but let's not forget they are the numbers 1 and 2 of the organization. They probably have speed that could rival Miria's, but they are generally more well-rounded in terms of speed and power. I would guess Miria's awakened form would be at the very least as fast as Alicia's in her awakened form.
You're only comparing Miria's speed as it is without awakening with the speed of those Claymores who have, who are automatically on a much higher playing field than her. The mere fact that she was able to match an awakened former number 2, when she was number 6, FOUR ranks lower WITHOUT awakening herself for a while is proof that her speed as a normal Claymore is extraordinary, even unnatural. If Miria awakened, Rigaldo would've died before he even realized something hit him.
If Miria awakened, Rigaldo would've died before he even realized something hit him.
I wonder why Miria didn't try awakening then :o
Btw, have you ever considered that Miria's speed comes from her natural yoma powers? Basically she does the same as the flash sword that is focusing a great amount of yoki in a single limb...Miria wouldn't get faster if she awakened because what she does is driving the awakened speed into her human body to make the ghost moves.
Probably awakening would make her slower since she would gain more body mass... (and breasts would start getting in the way, ever seen busty women running? boing, boing... :p)
Tsuyoshi
2009-08-29, 14:27
I wonder why Miria didn't try awakening then :o
Btw, have you ever considered that Miria's speed comes from her natural yoma powers? Basically she does the same as the flash sword that is focusing a great amount of yoki in a single limb...Miria wouldn't get faster if she awakened because what she does is driving the awakened speed into her human body to make the ghost moves.
Probably awakening would make her slower since she would gain more body mass...
You don't know if Miria will gain more body mass or not. It's likely that she will, but perhaps not by much. And just like you said, it's just like Irene's Flash Sword. That is still partial awakening, which is much different from a full awakening on Rigaldo's part. I highly doubt Miria was using more than 50% of her Youki to gain her speed boost, because a Claymore's body shape begins to change when she uses 50% of her Youki. We did not see such a change in Miria's legs when she fought Rigaldo. If she used 100% of her Youki, at which point any Claymore would awaken, she would be much much faster, regardless of a change in mass. Someone who is based on speed would most likely keep a low body weight, whereas someone based on power, like Duff, would gain an exponential increase in body size.
The reason Miria did not awaken against Rigaldo in order to win was because she kept her cool. From the beginning, she was never expecting the mission to be a success. Most likely, she was trying to buy herself time rather than actually defeat Rigaldo.
epica_999
2009-08-29, 15:16
I said so myself in that same post you quoted that Clare has Teresa's power, so I'm well aware of that. Teresa's ability was Youki reading. That's where Clare got her powers from. All of Teresa's other skills were essentially no better than everyone else's. Irene said so herself that the only reason Teresa is able to keep up with everybody and appear better than everyone in their own specialty is because she was able to read their movements before they even happened. That is not speed, but a form of enhanced intuition.
I don't think so, irene tought that the four of them against teresa where enough to defeat her but later irene said that she misjudged her again so teresa skills where far more superior to all of the four others.
Awakened
2009-08-29, 15:48
I don't think so, irene tought that the four of them against teresa where enough to defeat her but later irene said that she misjudged her again so teresa skills where far more superior to all of the four others.
Agree. When Teresa repelled Priscilla with her strength after they left the city, Irean said that was Teresa's true power (something like that).
Clare might be able to out run Miria if both of them awaken. Miria is able to accelerate to hight speed in a short period of time, but she has to stop and start over frequently. Clare can just keep running.
MisterJB
2009-08-29, 16:28
If Miria awakened, Rigaldo would've died before he even realized something hit him.
In order to do that, she would have to be beyond Abyssal level.
Most likely, she was trying to buy herself time rather than actually defeat Rigaldo.
Nonsense. Miria knew Rigardo. She probrably knew how dangerous he was.
Buy time for what?
Miria's plan consisted on the Claymores faking their deaths and fooling the ABs. She probrably knew that Rigardo wouldn't leave Pieta before being 100% sure that every Claymore was dead and that he would cut everyone in half just to be sure. She had to kill him.
She didn't come close to Awakening because Claymores avoid that. The only Claymores that we have seen going above their limits on purpose are Clare and Deneve.
Don't you think it's a little strange than in an battle against an army of ABs, not a single Claymore Awakened?
No chapter and no spoiler make MisterJB go something something.
Oh wow, we did a little spoof of that in High School, and I was King Arthur. The Knight who say Ni are a truly Terrifying force. :heh:
You have no idea.
I was thinking that Clare's form would be very much like Lucifer's form in the end. The legs seem to suggest that much, but I'm also thinking it might be similar to a Gazelle's should she resemble an animal of some kind.
That's a neat idea. It would eb very ironic if Clare looked like a Demon in Awakened form while Priscilla still looks like an angel.
Ok, a very pruple one.
irvinethearcher
2009-08-29, 20:15
Teresa is able to keep up with everybody and appear better than everyone in their own specialty is because she was able to read their movements before they even happened. That is not speed, but a form of enhanced intuition.
Tell that to rosemary's arm. She was IMO at least as strong as musculair sophia.
And there is still the possibility that her speed was on the same level as her demonstrated strength. Do you want to know more...
Power levels and statistics thread.
The problem with the awakened clare form is that it does not obey normal rules of awakening. For example the strength of a claymore determines the strength of the resulting awakened being. That seemed not to be the case when clare awakened body parts against rigardo. And thinking about it -
how on earth could a former number 47 with only one arm of a number 2 defeat an awakened veteran number 2?
Even her awakened body parts should be no match for rigardo except they came from an entirely different source of power which seemed theresa to me.
greyhame6
2009-08-30, 00:47
how on earth could a former number 47 with only one arm of a number 2 defeat an awakened veteran number 2?
Even her awakened body parts should be no match for rigardo except they came from an entirely different source of power which seemed theresa to me.
maybe controlled, fully-awakened limbs are stronger than completely awakened body. that way most of the strength is concentrated on the body parts that will definitely be used in combat. i mean.... belly slams are a bit rare:D
We could really start a debate about this particular speed thing I suppose. But I don't think I want it to become a forest fire. I do tend to agree with some of the guys who say that Clare would still be faster than Miria. But then again there are some who would definitely say that Miria would be faster. But I guess only Yagi could settle that.:)
clarakiss~
2009-08-30, 06:21
how on earth could a former number 47 with only one arm of a number 2 defeat an awakened veteran number 2?
Even her awakened body parts should be no match for rigardo except they came from an entirely different source of power which seemed theresa to me.
the only conclusion i can come up with is, clare is the heroine of claymore and it's only fitting for rigardo to lose to her. if it were someone else, like miria - rigardo would've defeated them with slight difficulty.
Negativedark
2009-08-30, 08:21
Just wondering, is the new chapter going to be out this week? I'm just unsure since Tuesday is the first.
Shiek927
2009-08-30, 11:07
Just wondering, is the new chapter going to be out this week? I'm just unsure since Tuesday is the first.
Of course, why wouldn't it be?
In fact, I'd advise everyone to keep an eye out for spoilers since their's a chance they may be popping up today.
irvinethearcher
2009-08-30, 12:43
the only conclusion i can come up with is, clare is the heroine of claymore and it's only fitting for rigardo to lose to her. if it were someone else, like miria - rigardo would've defeated them with slight difficulty.
I think we saw that there are thing in claymore like "otherworldly yoki" as clare called the yoki of raciella. Rene first thought it was only a fragile light when she came near it she saw the huge compressed power it really possessed. It could be similar with theresa's flash inside of clare. Perhaps clare has two sources of yoki and she simply was able to gain yoki from the otherworldly source when she awakened her body parts. Another explanation, which i personally not favor, could be like greyham6 said, that the concentrated yoki in only her limbs made her limbs stronger than they would have been if they were fully awaken. But irene measured clare's strength of one tenth of her and letting awakening all 4 limbs she awakened at least half of her body and even with the power of irenes arm it is doubtfull if her yoki multiplied by two + irene's arm would have been as strong as rigardo's yoki which should be perhaps 10 times as huge as clare's. Crude estimation and perhaps not fully correct at all but at least something we can work with.
I don't know how to describe this or find the right words for it here, i hope you get what i want to say.
HELLO everyone, I'm new in here and this is my first message so I hope I won't get in trouble with this question that may seem inapproriate but anyway I gotta ask it because I can't help myself wondering what is going on, well I'll go straight to the point : I just wanted to know two things, according to you of course, and concerning two unclear events that occured during the story :
first of all : how come norihiro yagi spent several months to set up a story with clarisse and miata though they don't seem to have important matters to defend ? am I the only one here that can't see what they could be up to afterwards ? there's gotta be something behind all this isn't it ? but what ?
secondly, I did not exactly understand why claire was so eager to see raciela and renee although (as the spy precisely mentioned to her) riful was most probably trying to break up the organisation .. did she want to save renee ? well I don't get it =( there's another thing, why was claire that linked to raciela ? was that because of teresa inside of her body ? and how come raciela took the exact same form of the twin goddess claire and teresa ? memories ? is that what it's all about ? I must have misunderstood something, or maybe it is yagi's intentions to lead the readers towards inner questioning, i must admit I'm little confused, I don't know if it's the same for you but i'd love to have your opinions on it .. THANKS anyway if you come up with an answer =)
i imagine Clare's awakened form would resemble demonic Pegasus in a humanoid form.(basically standing upright rather than like a centaur)
black mane with bladed wings.
http://dl2.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1241/1241192kt2gxur63o.jpg
Yo, do you know if that pic is from an anime, or is that fanfiction art????
Awakened
2009-08-30, 14:57
HELLO everyone, I'm new in here and this is my first message so I hope I won't get in trouble with this question that may seem inapproriate but anyway I gotta ask it because I can't help myself wondering what is going on, well I'll go straight to the point : I just wanted to know two things, according to you of course, and concerning two unclear events that occured during the story :
first of all : how come norihiro yagi spent several months to set up a story with clarisse and miata though they don't seem to have important matters to defend ? am I the only one here that can't see what they could be up to afterwards ? there's gotta be something behind all this isn't it ? but what ?
secondly, I did not exactly understand why claire was so eager to see raciela and renee although (as the spy precisely mentioned to her) riful was most probably trying to break up the organisation .. did she want to save renee ? well I don't get it =( there's another thing, why was claire that linked to raciela ? was that because of teresa inside of her body ? and how come raciela took the exact same form of the twin goddess claire and teresa ? memories ? is that what it's all about ? I must have misunderstood something, or maybe it is yagi's intentions to lead the readers towards inner questioning, i must admit I'm little confused, I don't know if it's the same for you but i'd love to have your opinions on it .. THANKS anyway if you come up with an answer =)
Welcome.
Most of the things you are asking about have been discuss before, but the discussions are mostly speculation.
There might be tow reason for Clarice. To make us think that Clare was dead and use her for something els in the future (she is more human than Clare).
MisterJB
2009-08-30, 16:22
http://i27.tinypic.com/1zn4f7o.png
PRISCILLA
Because men just love women that can kick their asses.
Why do you think you're reading Claymore in the first place?
スキンヘッドの雑鱼妖魔っぽいのが、棒から生まれる
ヘレンの攻撃が避けられ囲まれるが、クレアの高速剣とデネヴの助けで何とか撃破する
强さは并の覚醒者级だが、これがそこらじゅうにバラ巻かれたのなら、この岛は地狱と化すとクレ ア
人间体に戻ってるリフル达。ダフを袭うエラエラ棒をリフルが倒すが
无伤のアリシアが近づいてくる
「组织とっては深渊と呼ばれる者ですら実験体に过ぎないわ・・・
そして 组织の最高の戦士であるあなた达も例外では无いでしょうね」
组织は绝対だ、みたいなアリシアに呆れながら、「せいぜい もがくといいわ」と最期にベスを叩くリフル
「次は・・・普通の人间として 会えたらいいね・・・」
ダフの亡骸を见ながら、绝命するリフル
アリシアは暴走したっぽい
场面代わり组织。数日経ってるらしく、エラエラ棒の被害とアリシアの离反が报告される
「想定外な要素も有ったが 実験は有る程度の成功を収めたと言っていい・・・顷合いだな・・・」
テレサそっくりの戦士が登场
１１月号に続く
Shiek927
2009-08-30, 17:30
スキンヘッドの雑鱼妖魔っぽいのが、棒から生まれる
ヘレンの攻撃が避けられ囲まれるが、クレアの高速剣とデネヴの助けで何とか撃破する
强さは并の覚醒者级だが、これがそこらじゅうにバラ巻かれたのなら、この岛は地狱と化すとクレ ア
人间体に戻ってるリフル达。ダフを袭うエラエラ棒をリフルが倒すが
无伤のアリシアが近づいてくる
「组织とっては深渊と呼ばれる者ですら実験体に过ぎないわ・・・
そして 组织の最高の戦士であるあなた达も例外では无いでしょうね」
组织は绝対だ、みたいなアリシアに呆れながら、「せいぜい もがくといいわ」と最期にベスを叩くリフル
「次は・・・普通の人间として 会えたらいいね・・・」
ダフの亡骸を见ながら、绝命するリフル
アリシアは暴走したっぽい
场面代わり组织。数日経ってるらしく、エラエラ棒の被害とアリシアの离反が报告される
「想定外な要素も有ったが 実験は有る程度の成功を収めたと言っていい・・・顷合いだな・・・」
テレサそっくりの戦士が登场
１１月号に続く
Well, the spoiler has the whole November next-month confusion thing as they all do which is a good sign. Can't make any sense out of it though :confused:, except bits about "sub-humans" and.....fish.
Smooth JB, real smooth :rolleyes::heh::heh::p
Well, the spoiler has the whole November next-month confusion thing as they all do which is a good sign. Can't make any sense out of it though :confused:, except bits about "sub-humans" and.....fish.
*checks* No sub-humans in the translation I got from babel fish. The careless 鱼 妖 demon [tsu] [po] of the skinhead to be, it is born from the stick Helen's attack is avoided and is surrounded, but somehow it defeats with the high-speed sword of [kurea] and help of [denevu] 强 But the awakening person of the 并 级, this was wound around there [ji] [yu] sea urchin rose, if is, as for this 岛 when area 狱 with it converts, [kurea] Returning to the human 间 body, [ru] [rihuru] 达. Duffing [rihuru] pushes down the 袭 [u] [eraera] stick, but The ant shear of the 无 伤 gets near “组 织 Taking, it is deep, 渊 with even the person who is called the [wa] which is not the 过 [gi] in the experimental body… And Don't you think? your 达 which is the highest soldier of the 组 织 with exception 无 it will be and probably will be” The 组 织 is 绝 opposite, in the like ant shear the 呆 [re], [rihuru] which in “at the very most you should have struggled the [wa]” and last moment [besu] hits “As for the next… the normal person 间 as Don't you think? it could meet,…” [rihuru] which 见, 绝 life does the dying/fleeing 骸 of duffing As for the ant shear the [tsu] [po] which drives recklessly it is, The 场 aspect it substitutes, 组 织. Several days passing, the [ru] it seems, damage of the [eraera] stick and the 离 counter of the ant shear is done 报 announcement “Outside supposition there was also an element, but Experiment may say that it is you supplied success,… 顷 it is agreeable, the shelf…” [teresa] entirely soldier Noboru 场 It follows to the November edition
Whoever creates these fake spoilers must have figured out we're looking for the "it will be continued in x issue" part. :heh:
Shiek927
2009-08-30, 17:48
*checks* No sub-humans in the translation I got from babel fish. The careless 鱼 妖 demon [tsu] [po] of the skinhead to be, it is born from the stick Helen's attack is avoided and is surrounded, but somehow it defeats with the high-speed sword of [kurea] and help of [denevu] 强 But the awakening person of the 并 级, this was wound around there [ji] [yu] sea urchin rose, if is, as for this 岛 when area 狱 with it converts, [kurea] Returning to the human 间 body, [ru] [rihuru] 达. Duffing [rihuru] pushes down the 袭 [u] [eraera] stick, but The ant shear of the 无 伤 gets near “组 织 Taking, it is deep, 渊 with even the person who is called the [wa] which is not the 过 [gi] in the experimental body… And Don't you think? your 达 which is the highest soldier of the 组 织 with exception 无 it will be and probably will be” The 组 织 is 绝 opposite, in the like ant shear the 呆 [re], [rihuru] which in “at the very most you should have struggled the [wa]” and last moment [besu] hits “As for the next… the normal person 间 as Don't you think? it could meet,…” [rihuru] which 见, 绝 life does the dying/fleeing 骸 of duffing As for the ant shear the [tsu] [po] which drives recklessly it is, The 场 aspect it substitutes, 组 织. Several days passing, the [ru] it seems, damage of the [eraera] stick and the 离 counter of the ant shear is done 报 announcement “Outside supposition there was also an element, but Experiment may say that it is you supplied success,… 顷 it is agreeable, the shelf…” [teresa] entirely soldier Noboru 场 It follows to the November edition
Whoever creates these fake spoilers must have figured out we're looking for the "it will be continued in x issue" part. :heh:
*blink, Funny, maybe I'm doing something wrong.
Kind of difficult to make sense out of it, but Teresa is notably mentioned alot, which means it's probably fake :rolleyes:
vBulletin® v3.8.6, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.