Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha ViVid Manga Discussion

[00-Raiser]

Eh, Hayate and the Wolkenritter are nothing like siblings. Just look at the scene where Hayate scolds Vita for talking rudely to Nanoha. That's mother behaviour right there. This is without taking the power dynamic into consideration.

[Rising Dragon]

And then there was Hayate and Shamal's parent-like teasing of Rein in the cafeteria during StrikerS...

[itanshi1]

I imagine in a non standard family dynamic, they may shift roles.

[00-Raiser]

She does refer to them as her kids too.

[Skane]

A relationship between an adopted child and Hayate would be different from the Wolkies in that the Wolkies are already all grown-up, and for the most part, combat veterans. Hayate doesn't really have anybody that can trigger the mama-bear in her compared to Nanoha and Fate. If anything, she more akin to that of an "elder sister" to the Wolkies.

Rein-Zwei is the only one that she has a more "motherly" connection to, given that Rein-Zwei is literally born of her(part of Hayate's linker-core is in Rein-Zwei). Even then... Rein-Zwei is an artificial construct, and we don't really see her treating her as a daughter in StrikerS, Vivid and Force, more as a co-worker.

Having Sieg on Hayate's side would also balance out the Miura versus Vivio and Einhart dynamic. One new and veteran versus two monsters(in terms of combat potential, not personality). With Rio and Corona as "we're-going-to-be-wallpaper" side-kicks.

I just find the parallels that they are starting to draw between Sieg and Hayate to be uncanny. We'll see where they go from here on.

Cheers.

[Keroko]

A relationship between an adopted child and Hayate would be different from the Wolkies in that the Wolkies are already all grown-up, and for the most part, combat veterans.

... And 16 year old former champion Sieg isn't?

I don't know... the idea of Sieg being adopted sounds like fun, but Hayate already has a family of six. Putting Sieg there would feel like 'just one more.' And the parallels you're talking about are kinda vague to me as well.

[00-Raiser]

You're all assuming Seig is an orphan for whatever reason as well.

[Bonta Kun]

You're all assuming Seig is an orphan for whatever reason as well.

Don't think anyone threw out the idea that she might not be, just voicing of wishes or stuff that is of interest.
Cause I for one know something like Hayate actually adopting a child now is very very very unlikely and even more so with someone like Sieg but don't mean I don't still don't want it to happen:D

Fate and Nanoha have their adpoted kids where as Hayate gained a extended family through much different means, it's a different matter if she takes in a kid of her own will.

But hell I've always found it weird that I thought about this since StrikerS. Guess I'm a big soft sentimental idiot after all:p

[Justin_Brett]

I like how after one chapter (where we could tell what she was saying) Sieg is this popular.

[Random Wanderer]

I like how after one chapter (where we could tell what she was saying) Sieg is this popular.

The artist did an amazing job at showing her as this sweet, adorable thing that everyone will just want to hug and protect. Unless she hardly gets any more screentime, or she reveals a completely different side of her personality, I'd say she has a good shot at being the top ensemble darkhorse character for all of Vivid.

[Keroko]

You're all assuming Seig is an orphan for whatever reason as well.

There's been a couple of clues so far, and nothing to show otherwise. And considering Nanoha has a penchant for orphans (Hayate, Teana and Einhart to name a few) it's really only a logical step. Yeah, we could be wrong, but so far all the signs say yes.

[Justin_Brett]

The artist did an amazing job at showing her as this sweet, adorable thing that everyone will just want to hug and protect. Unless she hardly gets any more screentime, or she reveals a completely different side of her personality, I'd say she has a good shot at being the top ensemble darkhorse character for all of Vivid.

Yeah, I'd say they did a good job for all of the tournament characters like that - all of them are pretty much bound to be popular with some people. Like, most of them are archetypes, but also well characterized.

[Akiyoshi]

Need to read the Chapter, i'm not that sensible with imoutos(specially the ones who are ridiculously strong enough to not need said protection xDU), but i admit that the idea of Miura + Sieglinde friendship sounds interesting: "The Rookie and the Champ".

[Random Wanderer]

And considering Nanoha has a penchant for orphans (Hayate, Teana and Einhart to name a few)

Einhart's family situation remains unknown, last I heard.

[Keroko]

She's a kid living completely alone to the point where Nove rather than her parents was the one dealing with the legal documents regarding her crimes. Until I see parents I'm going to say orphan.

[Akiyoshi]

She's a kid living completely alone to the point where Nove rather than her parents was the one dealing with the legal documents regarding her crimes. Until I see parents I'm going to say orphan.

Still attends what it looks to be a pretty expensive school, have training equipement in her home and spent time doing personal stuff aside of spending time with Vivio and the girls. Even if she hasn't parents she must have someone taking care of her, i know children are moir eindependent on Mid-Childa but i really doubt the they're allowed to live alone completely on themselves. Not legally at least.

[Keroko]

Yet she does. In fact she pretty much seems to be the 'lonely girl' and Nove is pretty much her first 'guardian.' Plus, so far every girl in Nanoha that has had no mention of parents turned out to be an orphan, so until I see or hear parents mentioned, I'm going to keep assuming orphan.

[itanshi1]

Making me think of K-on arguments i've had here at home. Why do the twins have a car? Who drives? Are they alone? I'm confused.

oh yeah, Fabia (http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/m12/dhnzjda8y9_en.jpg)

[Keroko]

So her magical skills are top of her class, and she's the best in sports and magic. >.>

Well considering that she uses two elements, affinity or not her being top in class when it comes to magic is hardly a surprise.

I also can't help but laugh at Corona being described "top of her class in studies, but bad at magic" when the only other character we've ever seen in the entire series who creates golems is Precia.

[00-Raiser]

It's also established that Rio's family is one of fighters so she's likely to have been trained since a young age. Imagine if Nanoha put Vivio through strict magic training every day since she adopted her.

I don't think Precia's mecha mooks were golems. Unless something to that effect is stated somewhere?

[Keroko]

Autonomous humanoid constructs controlled by magic. Good enough for me.

But even if they aren't, that makes Corona the first golem user ever in the franchise so far. That still makes me laugh at the "not good at magic" part.

[00-Raiser]

They were just drones like Jail's gadgets.

With Corona it's said that her golem related magic is the only type she has any particular skill in so she's focusing on developing that one skill.

[Tiresias]

With Corona it's said that her golem related magic is the only type she has any particular skill in so she's focusing on developing that one skill.

The way you phrased that plus the "not good at magic" part reminds me of Emiya Shirou and his 'useless' skill in projection :heh:

...So as I pray...Unlimited Golem Works! :p

[Keroko]

Yeah, that's kind of my point, she's the only one in the universe we've been shown capable of doing this. That makes me laugh at the bad at magic part.

Anyway, I've been re-reading the manga and it occurred to me that even Rio's "remote transformation" isn't as impressive as it looks. At least not when we're comparing it to Einhart who transformed without a device at all several chapters earlier.

[Iromaru]

Don't forget that they are going to the most elite school on Mid-Childa.

Corona is not that great at magic compared with other students at that school, not compared to the general populace. I'm absolutely sure she's much better at it than generic TSAB soldiers.

And she's bad at traditional Mid-style magic, like pure energy or elemental blasts. Things like summoning or creation don't seems to fit under traditional magic on Mid-Childa.

And yes, Precia's summons were golems, not drones or just robots.

[Akiyoshi]

And yes, Precia's summons were golems, not drones or just robots.

Sauce?

10charlimit

[Rising Dragon]

I could use the source for that too, since everyone else says they're not.

[Dark Wing]

Autonomous humanoid constructs controlled by magic. Good enough for me.

But even if they aren't, that makes Corona the first golem user ever in the franchise so far. That still makes me laugh at the "not good at magic" part.

Well she dose seem like a one trick pony...:heh:

[Keroko]

True, but there's nothing wrong with being a one-trick pony if you can use that trick in many different ways.

[00-Raiser]

Remember that Corona decided to focus on her golem magic because Vivio praised her for it.

[Akiyoshi]

Like Bruce Lee once said:

"i won't fear the man who practiced 10,000 kicks, i will fear the man who practiced one kick 10,000 times".

[Dark Wing]

Remember that Corona decided to focus on her golem magic because Vivio praised her for it.

Vivio saw the talent in her magic even if it was the only kind she knew how or was able to do that was more then enough to motivate her to upon improve it.

[Kaijo]

Just for some fun, and to break things up a bit... real life Vivid: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/43723599#43723599

8 year old female kickboxer!

[Justin_Brett]

That's actually better than Vivio, heh.

[Mirron]

Well... Vivio is using magic too. So makes sense that someone more dedicated to just the martial arts aspect would be better.

[Akiyoshi]

Finally finded the time to watch ViVid 26(in chinese xDU).

Very impressive fight between Handcuffs Meganekko and Harii Tribecca(it's even more action packed than Miura VS. Micaiah), after seeing Harii being a sensitive girl we finally get to see her Hot-Blooded fightstyle(using one of her opponent's beams to free her hand from the handcuffs looks pretty hardcore), then answering with a bigger punch-blast, this girl is scoring a lot of points in my book.

...plus, her jacket looks badass! The best i've seen in ViVid so far.

[Nanya01]

Dunno if this was posted yet or not, but...

ZwKhzJZuFYw

I thought it was really good.

[00-Raiser]

Huh, surprised there's no talk about the new chapter...

Harii wins, but breaks her wrist in the process.

Rest focuses on Corona and Einhart before their match. Corona trains with Nove and Tio has his own cat toys :heh:

Their battle starts and not only can Corona fly, she can call up giant rock fists in mid air. Einhart gets hit by it for quite a bit of damage.

To be continued.

[Skane]

Huh, surprised there's no talk about the new chapter...

Harii wins, but breaks her wrist in the process.

Rest focuses on Corona and Einhart before their match. Corona trains with Nove and Tio has his own cat toys :heh:

Their battle starts and not only can Corona fly, she can call up giant rock fists in mid air. Einhart gets hit by it for quite a bit of damage.

To be continued.
Einhart: "Corona! Stop! You don't have plot armor! You're not a main character. I don't want to hurt you!"

Corona: "Talk to the hand bitch." *backslaps Einhart with a floating rock fist.

Bigby: "You go, girl."

I don't mind if Corona loses, if they at least allow her to really show off what a golemancer can do.

Cheers.

[Kuze]

I am barely there about the tournament and all, but I admit that I would not mind seeing Corona beat Einhart to tears. Then we can get around to the whole "oh please, tell your high honored memories to take a hike, we live in the present, why not be proud of yourself?" and a bit of character development.

[Akiyoshi]

If Einhart have that much troubles facing Corona i'm pretty convinced that Sieglinde will mop the floor with her xD

[Justin_Brett]

I guess just being able to throw rocks around is a side effect of the whole golem thing.

Hopefully Corona won't completely overshadow Einhart just because she got first blood.

[Rising Dragon]

I'm not sure it's a side-effect. After all, we've got Nanoha able to do the same thing with Stardust Fall, and that's apparently a complicated spell... so that just makes what Corona's doing all the more impressive.

[Justin_Brett]

Eh. If you can make a statue that can shoot its arm out on your command, I doubt it's much of a stretch to just take out the middleman.

[00-Raiser]

I'm not sure it's a side-effect. After all, we've got Nanoha able to do the same thing with Stardust Fall, and that's apparently a complicated spell... so that just makes what Corona's doing all the more impressive.

The thing with that is we see Nanoha take rocks from other places. Corona materializes them out of nothing.

Anyways, it's not unusual to have a character do well at first only to have them defeated in the end. Gives them a chance to show what they can do before they're eliminated.

[Jimmy C]

Got to read ch27 in Chinese. They shed more light on the tech behind the tournament. It seems that, altough the contestant can't really injure each other with magic attacks, there's a physical injury simulator running during the matches to give the contestants the realistic sensation of suffering when they hurt each other hard enough!
Get hit hard enough and the system determines the amount pain you ought to feel in the appropriate body part. Get hit harder and feel the sensation of broken bones and loss of limb usage!
Get slashed and suffer a bleeding wound? Not only pain, but gradual loss of Life Points and eventually conciousness as well.
And since it's all simulated, it's all ok after the match.
You know, if the DSAA has this for sporting events, the Bureau ought to have it for their own training programs as well.
Speaking of the Harri-Els match, it seems like Els has trouble thinking outside the box due to her rules-bound nature, but Harri outthought her and used her own attacks to defeat her.

[Keroko]

Hmm, this chapter began the sinking feeling that this is going to get boring soon for me real soon. I mean, yeah the fights are cool and all... but they're missing a good plot to drive them. There's no real mystery, no real goal beyond 'try to win.' It's just... well... another tournament manga.

[Zero Hurricane]

Hmm, this chapter began the sinking feeling that this is going to get boring soon for me real soon. I mean, yeah the fights are cool and all... but they're missing a good plot to drive them. There's no real mystery, no real goal beyond 'try to win.' It's just... well... another tournament manga.

Yeah, another typical tournament arc like Dragon Ball or Naruto's Chuunin Exam Third Phase.

But if you want a more seriousness, why not hope that one day in the middle of Inter Middle Tournament, there are going to riot, and the Mage unite to stop the source of the problem? I mean, just like in the Invasion in Konoha incident. :heh:

[Rising Dragon]

Why are these pointless tournaments so popular in mangas, anyway?

[Akiyoshi]

Because it's cool to have a good excuse to pit heroes agianst other heroes in a fight XD

Sadly, we don't have a military tournament where all the old cast can exchange blows, cause that would be awesome xD!

So far ViVid is ok for me, i'm not dying of love for this manga but i like the expansion of side characters and while the fights are pretty generic the variety of magic styles mantain those fresh and entertaining. Most of the new characters can't catch to me because they are too many new faces so i really read ViVid to watch what happen to the old cast.

[Keroko]

Yeah, another typical tournament arc like Dragon Ball or Naruto's Chuunin Exam Third Phase.

At least the chuunin exam arc had several plotlines running alongside it. You had Orochimaru slithering in the background, the mystery surrounding Gaara, the Neji/Hinata conflict, this kept things interesting. Also, the tournament had a clear goal: advancing to chuunin, which meant Naruto would be one step closer to his life's goal.

This tournament? Not so much. Yeah, there's the 'why did Sieg drop out last year?' but that's more of a question than an actual mystery. More so, winning doesn't seem to accomplish any goals. Even Einhart's goal doesn't really catch anything here, though it also doesn't help that the definition of achieving that goal are pretty vague. Heck, the cast isn't even in the mindset of winning to begin with. They're in the mindset of "let's see how far we get."

So yeah, no plot, no real goals... I hope something comes in to spice things up soon.

[Justin_Brett]

Whenever you think a tournament is just going to be a tournament in a shonen series is when some spanner comes into it.

And damn, that's kinda brutal for something ten year olds can enter.

[Keroko]

Consider for a moment though, that these ten year olds can do that kind of damage for real too.

[Justin_Brett]

Yeah, but most of the older members are probably going to be more experienced with dealing with it than little kids, especially ones who are there for the first time.

Did Nove know about this? Don't recall her mentioning it before.

[Keroko]

If the kids are of a level that they can survive the prelims, then they are of a level that they can handle that kind of stuff. If you can do that kind of damage, it generally means you've been practicing with or against people who can do so as well.

And I'm pretty sure these kinds of things are in the standard available-for-everyone rules, so Nove would have known about it. Heck, Megane fought in this tournament before and was still excited about it.

[Justin_Brett]

Eh, I guess. Still kind of skews it toward veterans, but that's the point.

And wait, does this mean you can't actually physically break someone's arm, or could that theoretically happen, causing them to experience the pain of it twice?

[Jimmy C]

does this mean you can't actually physically break someone's arm, or could that theoretically happen, causing them to experience the pain of it twice?
The tournament safety protocols probably prevent true physical injury.
As far as simulated injuries go, yes, you can suffer multiple breaks on the same bone, just like in real life. That in fact did happen to Harri during her match with Els. By round 3, her right arm was broken in 2 places.
And on the bright side, if this were a tournament in almost any other manga, those would have been real, physical injuries.
And of the contestants, Rio, Vivio and Lutecia did read the rules, so they know about the simulation. Shanti, the nun, appears to have skipped that part of the guide and so didn't know about it until the other 3 told her.

[Keroko]

Eh, I guess. Still kind of skews it toward veterans, but that's the point.

And wait, does this mean you can't actually physically break someone's arm, or could that theoretically happen, causing them to experience the pain of it twice?

Any tournament is skewed towards veterans. Experience tends to do that.

But this system is probably just introduced to have the drama that comes with mid-fight injuries without having the actual injuries, making it easier to handwave miraculous recoveries for the next round.

[Rising Dragon]

Plus magic and Device weaponry would make it far more possible for accidental death in tournaments without such safeguards in place, magic damage or no.

[Jimmy C]

And just think of the possibility that Nanoha's been using it in her training for years already!

[Akiyoshi]

I finally watched Ch. 27 scans and the beginning of the fight of Corona Vs. Einhart.

From what you described it sounded like if einhart has received lots of damage from Corona's rock fist but from what i've seen it looks more like Einhart is impressed of Corona's attack while blocking it!

It looks very impresive, Einhart's Kaiser Arts are able to parry Giant Rock Punches!

[00-Raiser]

It did take off a decent chunck of life points.

Also, I've noticed some non native english speakers doing this...

You don't watch a chapter. You read it. You watch an episode.

[Akiyoshi]

Heh, that will be usefull because i just started today with a new class of screenwritting at school xD

[Sheba]

It looks very impresive, Einhart's Kaiser Arts are able to parry Giant Rock Punches!
Let's wait until she shoryuken a Dinosaur Killer while IN SPACE!

[LostSome]

The idea behind Corona`s attack was to keep Einhart away from her, so on that level it was a success.

[Justin_Brett]

I don't know where you guys are getting these scans, 'cause I can't find them.

[00-Raiser]

They ain't in english.

[Justin_Brett]

Whoops, you don't sub manga. Obviously.

[JINNSK]

Successive release ViVid 4th and 5th vol
As you know ViVid 4th vol comes out on September 10.According to Fujima's blog,ViVid 5th vol will be out on October 26.At the same time Dog Days manga will be out.
Fujima's blog (http://fujima-blog.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2011/08/vivid5-c8ac.html)


BTW Force 4th vol also comes out on September 10.But 5th vol is not yet fixed.

[Justin_Brett]

>Dog Days manga

I Am Okay With This.

[Akiyoshi]

Is Dog Days a good series?

Ch. 1 looked good but i changed the channel once they started with the blatant fanservice.

[ShouTakuya]

I hope they will adapt this onto mini series or an ova maybe

[Keroko]

Is Dog Days a good series?

Ch. 1 looked good but i changed the channel once they started with the blatant fanservice.

Eh, it's okay. The plot is pretty straightforward and predictable for the most part, it's finale pretty being much "wait, what?" only because it was totally random, but overall it's pretty enjoyable. It's got a pretty interesting cast and it was one of the few anime from that season that kept me checking for updates every week though, so that's worth something.

[Justin_Brett]

The show felt kinda like they were setting a lot of things up in case they got to do a continuation of it. And now they are, so I guess that wasn't a mistake.

[Akiyoshi]

At least they're now try to prevent a good sucess as apparently the big popularity of Nanoha S1 took them by surprise xD

[Kuze]

To clear up, Harri pretend!broke her wrist by blasting away the binds.

Afterwards, she pulled not!Asahina by the binds, and punched her. With the pretend!broke wrist, again. She's not entirely bright shall we say.

I don't know where you guys are getting these scans, 'cause I can't find them.

PM.

[Justin_Brett]

Seems like Einhart has some competition now for the whole Waif Fu thing.

Funnily enough, I actually predicted in Section Thirteen that you'd be able to do stuff like that with rock magic.

[00-Raiser]

Is Dog Days a good series?

Ch. 1 looked good but i changed the channel once they started with the blatant fanservice.

I wish people wouldn't knock blatant fanservice so much =/

And it would be episode 1, Aki, not chapter.

Dog Days is harmless fun. Looks nice and is easy to watch. Can't wait for some *ahem* content to come out of c80 :naughty:

[00-Raiser]

Saw a preview image for the new chapter

Corona giving Einhart a shoryuken.

[Akiyoshi]

Saw a preview image for the new chapter

Corona giving Einhart a shoryuken.

Hmmm....

A rock fisted "Shoryuken" or one with her bare hands?

[Rising Dragon]

Hopefully the latter. She has been taking Strike Arts too, I'd like to see some of that training pay off.

[Sheba]

Hmmm....

A rock fisted "Shoryuken" or one with her bare hands?

Bare, without protection. Not on Einhart's safe day. ziiiiiinnnng

[Justin_Brett]

That sounds extremely awesome.

[00-Raiser]

She's using her unprotected hand.

http://56.imagebam.com/download/x8ZmatEFdr61nsjsCJzXFw/14728/147271484/1108252148e992877f6a8cf129.jpg

[Akiyoshi]

Corona already won this fight independently of the official result xD

[Kuze]

I will take back some bad thoughts about ViViD if it is remembered that jaw shots can't be shrugged off.

[Dark Wing]

Well it great to see Corona actually putting up a fight looks like she doesn't plan on going down easy either.

[00-Raiser]

Raws are out

Corona manages to get some more solid hits in with her golem, but Einhart counter attacks, shatters part of the golem, and hits Corona for a lot of damage. Corona has some flashbacks about Vivio, her training, etc, in what I imagine is your usual "I know I'm weak but I've come this far, I can't lose now!" flashbacks. Then she hits Einhart with the shoryuken and that's the end of the chapter.

[vic-vic]

And Shante meet Victoria on the ring. Hope thunder-ojou will win, I want to see her fighting with Harley

[Justin_Brett]

What? Wasn't Vivio pretty blatantly set up to fight Chante at some point?

[Akiyoshi]

Well...

...as how i see things, Victoria has more importance as a character than Shante, so she probaby gonna win.

Why we're talking about this in spoilers xD?

[00-Raiser]

I actually wasn't sure it was Victoria, due to the ponytail and the fact she's using a halberd.

[Proto]

According to the accompanying bubble text it's Victoria.

[Akiyoshi]

Wow, so it results that our fine blonde princess is inreality a Halberd-wielding amazon?

+5 cool points to Victoria xD

[vic-vic]

I got a crazy idea: Arnage and Stella as participants.

Corona vs Stella:

Corona: Golem Creation! Come Goliath! *Cue a massive golem constructed from rock and metal bars appear on the ring* I`ll show my friend the result of my training.
Stella: Hum, that`s all you have? I`ll show you the real deal. Come Esquad Huckbein. *Huck`s battleship blast his way through the roof, looming above any present characters*
Corona: T_T It`s... not... fair...

[Justin_Brett]

How about we not go down that path, because it'll likely end in an argument?

[Akiyoshi]

Those two alone can curbstomp the entire rooster of participants xDU

However it will be satisfying seeing Einhart or sieglinde managing to land a punch to their faces at least.

[Sheba]

Give Corona the memories of a Rocky Training montage, the Guile theme and she wins.

[mielipuoli]

hm, the little girl Corona nailing one of those perfectly.

JOURYUKEN!

[Sunder the Gold]

Has anyone else mentioned or though that Sieglinde looks a little like Black Rock Shooter?

[00-Raiser]

Yup. Was pretty much the kneejerk reaction.

[Random Wanderer]

Translations... so far... behind... driving me... mad...:eyespin:

[JINNSK]

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/nanoha/magazine/compace/th_Vivid_vol4_booklet.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/nanoha/magazine/compace/?action=view&current=Vivid_vol4_booklet.jpg)

[ditto526]

so one call a medic

[FRS]

FYI scanlation of chapter 23 is out.

[Mirron]

Where? I'd like to read a new translation.

[Random Wanderer]

Mangafox has it.

Thanks to spoilers I already know how Miura vs Mikaya (or however her name is supposed to be spelled) turns out, since the chapters in question have been out for months, but I'm still looking forward to actually seeing the fight. I didn't want to hunt for raws, preferring to wait for something I can actually read.

[Justin_Brett]

It's Micaiah.

[aers]

http://aers.yshi.org/i/20110924092148311.png
http://aers.yshi.org/i/20110924092204881.png

(holy crap we're at 29 chapters already?)

[tiancai]

So Corona defeated Einhart with a 7130 dmg attack? 0.0
This is unexpected

[Keroko]

Einhart is still standing in the next frame though, so it's not over yet. We're missing something here... neither player has enough life left in chapter 28 to survive a 7130 dmg attack, yet both of them are still standing.

[tiancai]

I cant wait to see Victoria's match. Her barrier jacket and halberd are too cool :)

[Kaijo]

In my view, no matter what happens, Corona has been sufficiently awesome to be declared the winner. Her display of badassery is complete with that stance of hers in aers second picture.

[Akiyoshi]

As i said, Corona already winned this fight no matter the final result.

I cant wait to see Victoria's match. Her barrier jacket and halberd are too cool :)

Seconded, looks like Victoria have potential to be a Lady of War but, as Einhart recently demonstrated, appearances can be deceiving.

[Iromaru]

http://i55.tinypic.com/2zfpy52.jpg

Full raw should be out in 24h max.

And this is easily the best fight in Vivid so far.

[Enternal]

In my view, no matter what happens, Corona has been sufficiently awesome to be declared the winner. Her display of badassery is complete with that stance of hers in aers second picture.

Have to disagee with you with that. Lol my main reason is that, they're both to freakin awesome at this point so no matter who wins, damn they're both awesome. Miura and now this. Hopefully we getting more of these awesome fights.

[Akiyoshi]

I just want to see the full fight to make a score of Einhart's feats becuse just by looks Corona has totally overshadowed her.

[Enternal]

I just want to see the full fight to make a score of Einhart's feats becuse just by looks Corona has totally overshadowed her.

True. In terms of progress, it does seem that Corona have improved a lot. Although I could also say that her attacks have gotten more "flashy" and strong. Einhart on the other hand seems like the same as when you first saw her back in chapter 5 (think that it was). At the same time she haven't use all her skills that she might have worked on off screen. So yes I agree that right now Corona overshadowed (and she looks so cool!) but considering how almost every battle so far had made the two fighters look so awesome (like Micaiah and Miura), I think we can expect something from Einhart and Vivio later on. Just kept feeling like they will have those two clash sooner or later.

But dang... this is awesome.

[Akiyoshi]

I wonder if Corona will be the one facing Sieglinde, right now chances are big.

[Justin_Brett]

And a month or two ago everyone was worried Corona was gonna just get beaten. I love it.

[Enternal]

I wonder if Corona will be the one facing Sieglinde, right now chances are big.

Hmm... not really sure. That is only if she wins so I'm not sure yet. Unless they go for a draw... how would that work in a tournament?

And a month or two ago everyone was worried Corona was gonna just get beaten. I love it.

Lol! Worred yeah but at the same time I actually was pretty sure they're going to show that she won't go down without a fight. And that's pretty what it is right now! Hehe love it as well!

[Akiyoshi]

Now i'm worrying about Einhart being the one beaten, how she ended up being the underdog?

LOL!

[Enternal]

Now i'm worrying about Einhart being the one beaten, how she ended up being the underdog?

LOL!

... yeah true. Things don't look good right now. Both of their health is really low now too right? So the next hit really will decide it?

"STARLIGHT... BREAKER!!!!" -> -999999 damage. Life = 0. "Tournament shall now be on hold due to massive destruction of tournament facility."
Oops, wrong one.

[TheCuriousFan]

So Corona defeated Einhart with a 7130 dmg attack? 0.0
This is unexpected

Isn't it the other way round? showing that Corona just took 7130 damage?

[Iromaru]

Remember when everybody was:

"Oh no, boring magical sports and crappy shonen tournament..."

Yeah.

[Enternal]

Remember when everybody was:

"Oh no, boring magical sports and crappy shonen tournament..."

Yeah.

Lol! I think sometimes people just don't give anything a chance. They read the first couple pages and "THIS SUXS!!". Of course that's just exaggeration but you get the idea.

Also reminds me of something silly. This one guy only watches the first few episodes of Nanoha (never got to Fate) and he dropped it. That's alright and dandy. He watches the entire Madoka anime. He then talked about how much better Madoka was because it also had scifi stuff in it while Nanoha had none. Lol.

Anyway what do you guys think of Vivio so far? Initially she wasn't that interesting but I definitely like her now. Energetic and cute and... already you can feel there are similarities with Nanoha.

[Justin_Brett]

Isn't it the other way round? showing that Corona just took 7130 damage?

When Corona was the one attacking? Ein'd need to have some gnarly defenses for that to make any sense.

[Rising Dragon]

Generally when it shows a character and that box with the info beneath them, it's for them. So it was Corona who took that much damage.

[Justin_Brett]

*looks at pic again*

Oh, it's two different pages. Whoops.

[Kuze]

At chapter 28, Einhart had 5200 health at the end (uppercut not counted for), Corona had 1100.

Unless something completely changed from Miura/Michaiah and Harri, or she can heal up, Corona lost with that , standing up now is just guts. (although wasn't it that once you hit zero, your body is automatically shutdown by device as per regulations to avoid any more injury? Or is that just the matches on Lu's place? IDK)

[00-Raiser]

And a month or two ago everyone was worried Corona was gonna just get beaten. I love it.

We were just saying she'd lose, which she still probably will. Having the deuteragonist lose to a secondary character would be unexpected and we know Tsuzuki doesn't have the balls for that.

[Skane]

I'll eat cardboard if Corona wins. The way the cards are being played right now, this is just an "exhibition match" for Corona's skills. For Einhart to drop out of the competition at this point would be a total mindf**k twist in terms of current plot build-up.

I wouldn't mind being wrong for once though, with regards to Vivid's development.

Cheers.

[00-Raiser]

I wouldn't mind being wrong either, but this is clearly for the sake of giving Corona a crowning moment of awesome since she'll be eliminated and won't be able to show it off later like Einhart will.

[aers]

Oh, right.

I forgot to post the spoiler summary.

コロナ、アッパーの後に回し蹴りでアインをダウンさせる。
あれは、アクセルスマッシュとリボルバースパイクじゃ…と驚くリオとヴィヴィオ。
なんとか決まってくれればとコロナは祈るが、アインはライフを970残して立ち上がる。
アインは間合いを詰め、ラッシュをかけるがコロナはことごとくよけ、カウンターに虎咆を
アインに当てる（アインライフ130）ここで惜しくもゴングが。
インターバル中、アインはネフィリムフィストとは「身体自動操作」、ゴーレムを動かす時の
要領で自分の体を操作していると見ぬく。さらに特定の打撃に対して、自動で打つようにして
おけば反応時間ゼロのオートカウンターになるとも。しかしアインには対策があるという。


ふたりともインターバル中にライフを回復させ、アインはライフ7530　クラッシュエミュ全身軽度打撲　左 腕中度打撲。コロナはライフ11180（クラッシュエミュ無し）でラウンド2開始

格闘戦において、非常に有意に思える身体操作や自動反撃をなぜ現役選手は使わないのか。
その理由を示すように、優勢に思えたコロナの攻撃はあっさりとアインに読まれる。もともと
身体操作はタイムロスが出やすく、コンマ1秒以下の遅れが格闘戦では命とりになってしまうのだ 。
それならば大威力技はと、巨大なゴーレムの拳、マイストアームを繰り出すコロナ。
しかしアインは「貴様のいる場所は私が既に600年前に通過しているっ！」と拳を粉々に
粉砕。右腕を捻転挫傷するコロナだが、それでもアインに突撃。しかし鋼体の型「牙山」で
防御を固めたアインはコロナが攻撃につかった部位を次々にクラッシュさせていく。
そしてアインが追撃し、コロナが自動で反撃…しようとしたが、アインは途中で拳を止め、
コロナは空振り、カウンターで顔面に拳を喰らい、ダウン。
心が折れてもおかしくない！「コロナァー！」と叫ぶノーヴェだが、コロナはここからが
ネフィリムフィストの神髄だと五体の完全操作「フルコントロールモード」を発動（ライフ530 ）
その姿を見て悲しそうな表情を浮かべるアイン。それはかつて覇王だったおのが身をもって
習得していた技だった。
「ですがその技は危険を伴います。危険なことになる前に…私が終わらせます！」
「終わらせません。私だって自分に胸を張ってみたいから！」

TO BE CONTINUED

[00-Raiser]

Running it through Google translate, the fight isn't over yet.

[Justin_Brett]

Still, did you think back then that she'd be this badass here? Probably no.

[00-Raiser]

I didn't expect her to rely on hand to hand techniques, no.

[Rising Dragon]

I'm glad she is, though. It'd be kinda stupid to have her participate in Strike Arts practice but never display her use such skills in an actual battle.

[Keroko]

Remember when everybody was:

"Oh no, boring magical sports and crappy shonen tournament..."

Yeah.

It is still a typical magical sports shounen tournament manga with naught but tiny shreds of plot floating around in the far distance. However, we play with the cards we're dealt, so we might as well enjoy it.

Focus on the good parts, let them balance out the bad. A recipe to enjoy almost any manga. ;)

I'll eat cardboard if Corona wins. The way the cards are being played right now, this is just an "exhibition match" for Corona's skills. For Einhart to drop out of the competition at this point would be a total mindf**k twist in terms of current plot build-up.

I wouldn't mind being wrong for once though, with regards to Vivid's development.

Cheers.

Me neither. It'd literally say "tropes go out the window, anything goes!"

[Iromaru]

It is still a typical magical sports shounen tournament manga with naught but tiny shreds of plot floating around in the far distance.

Wait, so all sports and SoL anime/manga don't have plot? You need serious battles to death or saving the world to call it plot?

Sure, I'll agree that writing leave much to be desired (it's Tsuzuki after all) but I still can call Vivid a good and enjoyable manga. And that's something I can't say about the supposedly serious Force and it's "real" plot.

[Proto]

Those cases are different. In sports series the focus are the characters. In SoL the focus is the setting itself.

I don't even know what Vivid is supposed to be. That doesn't stop me from liking it though. :p

[Kaijo]

I have issues with Vivid, and it's lack of plot (especially compared to the loads of plot and mystery in Force), but with all things, you have to take them for what they are. Nothing will ever measure up to one's perfect expectations. I'll always wish for more.

But I suppose I could bitch about it instead; that would be real productive. :P

[Amaterasu1963]

Ok, so looking at the summery it was next round. That's why she can take 7000 more and still be standing.

[Iromaru]

In sports series the focus are the characters. In SoL the focus is the setting itself.

Characters are usually more important than setting in SoL. And Vivid is a mix of both anyways. We saw 10 times more of Mid and it's everyday life in Vivid than in StrikerS. And we already know most of the new characters pretty well. I like new characters and care about them, which cannot be said about new characters in Force. Maybe with the sole exception of Isis.

I have issues with Vivid, and it's lack of plot (especially compared to the loads of plot and mystery in Force)

Sometimes less plot is better than a bad plot.

[Keroko]

And I enjoy both. Yeah, I don't really like how Vivid floats in the air without a clear goal (even winning the championship isn't really painted as a goal with solid underlying motivations so usual to championship manga for anyone but Einhart. And even that's not being acted upon as much as it should) but even despite that, I can still enjoy it.

I just let the things I like in Vivid balance out the things I don't, which leaves me with a manga I still enjoy with every new chapter.

[Kuze]

Wait, so all sports and SoL anime/manga don't have plot? You need serious battles to death or saving the world to call it plot?

Is that honestly what you think the plots of not!sports/not!SoL series are all about? Really?

When I read posts like that, I feel grateful that I've read stuff like Planetes, and am reading Beelzebub.

And Vivid is a mix of both anyways.

I can not agree with this. Vivio and Einhart are far, far, far, far more important to the title than the back drop. But since we're on that subject, what new information have we found out about daily life in Mid-Childa, or rather, Vivio's daily life on Mid-Childa?

She has baths with her family, bathes with her friends, goes to school, goes to the Saint Church to visit sleeping Ixpellia, practices Strike Arts with her friends and Nove. The only parts that have received any kind of focus beyond a panel or two are the baths, and the Strike Arts. We know she gets good grades, well, great! Do we actually have any kind of significant attention paid to her passing class, working on her studies, anything?

What about the setting?

Mid-Childa has a interdimensional fightan' tournament. We discover that there are delinquents and dojo members, that Einhart beat up off screen in passing, that have all of zero chance of ever appearing due to lack of little girls in their particular ranks. We find out that there are differently styled dojos.

What about seeing Mid-Childa itself? We saw Cranagan, the Erusea District, East Mid-Childa, parts of North Mid-Childa, Hotel Augusta, lots and lots of locations in StrikerS, not the mention the TSAB and Saint Church installations.

What notable places do we see in ViViD that we didn't in StrikerS? The beach side where Miura saw Hayate, Michaiah's and the Nakajima dojos, the tournament building, St Hilde. Of course, also the very small amount of scenery from Carnaaji.

It's all peanuts really, much less than StrikerS. The only really juicy parts that have any weight behind them, would be the flashbacks to the Belkan wars, and even they aren't expanded upon a whole lot because the more important stuff is in the present.

But if people enjoy ViViD and Force, or just ViVid, or just Force, or neither, or six of one and half a dozen of the other, well, that's cool. I may be a pessimist by nature, but Kaijo and Keroko have the right idea. I'm still willing to deal with the hand we're dealt.

[Iromaru]

It's all peanuts really, much less than StrikerS.

Good joke.

What did we see in StrikerS? RF6 HQ, GF HQ, forests and abandoned cities full of copy-paste buildings.

That one episode when they had a day off and I was hoping to actually see a populated city turned into battle episode in 10 minutes.

It was enraging how underdeveloped Mid was in StrikerS.

Is that honestly what you think the plots of not!sports/not!SoL series are all about? Really?

No. But it sure seems like some people do.

Vivid has plot. Just because it's not about "serious" battles for Lost Logia again some people say it's not plot.

And if you ask me it's a far better plot than some ultra generic and stupid shonen crap from Force.

[Akiyoshi]

StrikerS focused more on develop the political/military side of Mid-Childa while ViVid becomes interesting by showing how is the life on the real Mid-Childa, giving a good glimpse at various aspects of their society.

[Kuze]

It was enraging how underdeveloped Mid was in StrikerS.

Note that I at no point ever said that StrikerS had more slice of life showcasing than ViViD. Nor did I ever say that I thought that StrikerS fully developed Mid.

What I did say was that it did much more than ViViD in showing what Mid looked like. And ViViD, well, what has ViViD shown us about the setting of Mid? Forget the TSAB for a moment. What new cultural, social, or local concepts has ViViD shown about Mid?

No. But it sure seems like some people do.

Really? And this is how you extrapolate someone saying that ViViD is generic and aimless into being a catch all for the genres of sports and /life ?

Just because it's not about "serious" battles for Lost Logia again some people say it's not plot.

Why not just name the people who say that it doesn't have plot? I myself think it has tiny shreds of plot floating around in the far distance, sometimes picked up on. And what is in between is, to me, ultra generic and boring as hell fare. Does this mean that I must feel that, say, The Legend of Koizumi or Soul Eater Not has no plot? No, it sure as hell doesn't.

ViVid becomes interesting by showing how is the life on the real Mid-Childa,giving a good glimpse at various aspects of their society

Explain.

[00-Raiser]

StrikerS focused more on develop the political/military side of Mid-Childa while ViVid becomes interesting by showing how is the life on the real Mid-Childa, giving a good glimpse at various aspects of their society.

Yeeeeah, gonna have to disagree with you there. The only aspect of Mid Childan life being showcased explicitly is the tournament process, and since it's a yearly event it's hardly part of every day life.

Anyways, inevitably Vivid has no real relevance. At the end of the day the events of Vivid happen and it has no bearing on anything. There's nothing at stake. And that's all fine and dandy. Fluff series are still enjoyable.

[Justin_Brett]

Even if they've only shown bits and pieces of it, it's still more than what was shown in StrikerS.

[Enternal]

Yeeeeah, gonna have to disagree with you there. The only aspect of Mid Childan life being showcased explicitly is the tournament process, and since it's a yearly event it's hardly part of every day life.

Anyways, inevitably Vivid has no real relevance. At the end of the day the events of Vivid happen and it has no bearing on anything. There's nothing at stake. And that's all fine and dandy. Fluff series are still enjoyable.

What I do like about Vivid though is that it's pretty much slice-of-life besides the tournament part. Makes it really enjoyable to read and don't you think the background here and there looks great?

[Kuze]

Even if they've only shown bits and pieces of it, it's still more than what was shown in StrikerS.

Which is true indeed. It can't be argued really. It's just as you say, bits and pieces of it. Severely, severely undeveloped.

For all of its many faults, StrikerS at least managed to (sloppily) establish Mid-Childa as a (supposedly) inhabited planet, as opposed to S1 and A's in which Uminari City might as well have been the center of the Earth surrounded by the mythical realm of "other Japan", and England being somewhere or other.

Anyways. I remember that the matches can only last for three minutes, so I guess prize fighting rules are in place. If it lasts for three rounds, whoever has the advantage in points wins?

[Kaijo]

Sometimes less plot is better than a bad plot.

Good thing there is no bad plot in Vivid or Force then, eh? :P

I will say this... without a plot, it makes it hard to care what happens. There is nothing at stake in Vivid, so whether they win or lose their fights, I don't really care. The only fight I've been interested in so far has been this Corona match, because I wanted to see what she could do. But other than that... who cares if Vivio or Ein or whoever wins the tourney? If they lose, it won't be a big deal. They can do it again next year.

Whereas with Force, we have a very definite thing at stake: towns, and scores of people, are being wiped off the mat. The first brush with the enemy from RF6, showcased that our heroes can't just curbstomp them like normal. And whatever the Hucks/Corporations are up to, we know it can't be good... and we wonder just how bad it will be for our heroes should the Hucks/Corporations succeed.

That's what plot does. It gives you a reason to get invested, to sit on the edge of your seat.

Having said that, I don't mind Vivid's lack of plot much. It does have some interesting things, sorta like reading a comprehensive guide vs. an actual novel.

But here's the kicker: I don't whine about the things I find lacking in Vivid or Force (and yes, I do realize there are things that could be done better in Force). Sure, we all have different tastes so different things will appeal to us. And it's okay to say what you don't like.

But what makes everyone else upset at things, is the constant posting about the exact same dislikes. You've seen how people have reacted to Aki and his Signum issues. Don't be like that, Iromaru. No one likes it when someone is like that. You aren't going to magically make everyone here hate the manga, and your posts aren't going to actually change the story one way or another.

Accept it for what it is, flaws and all... or if it bothers you so much, don't read it.

[Proto]

I will say this... without a plot, it makes it hard to care what happens

Not necesarely, you just care about it in a different way. (as you said yourself) Cue in true SoL (ARIA esque) or character focused series (Kokoro Library for example). You certainly don't care too much about the character's fate, but you certainly care about them in an exploratory way.

Of course, expectations are also a big part of the whole picture, and I'm sure most people didn't come to a series in the Nanoha franchise where plot wasn't the focus at all. But then again it's a matter of switching expectations accordingly.

[Skane]

Plot is not an end-all-be-all deal-breaker in a story. Otherwise stories like ARIA would have been failures, but instead, the manga-ka made a comfortable enough living from its success. Nobody complains about the lack of an over-arcing plot in ARIA, because it is not what ARIA is all about. It's more about its scenery-porn and "so-heartwarming-it-makes-you-want-to-die" moments that makes it so... endearing to its audience.

Plot... would only be a deal-breaker if a series chooses to actively claim that it has a compelling one, but fails to deliver on it. If however, a series never makes a pretence of having one, it's hard to knock against it for it.

Force thus far, does have a compelling plot. The idea is there, and it IS intriguing. To me personally, Force's problem is not really its plot idea, but more on its execution. I have already said my pieces in the Force thread, so I won't repeat them here.

Vivid on the other hand, seems to be more of a "world-builder" story. At least that is the impression I am getting from it. They are expanding more on what the Mid-childan society/culture is like and is generally a light-hearted affair. If they want, they could also expand further on what Ancient Belka was like, using Einhart for background information.

Cheers.

[Mirron]

Hmm... Corona is definitely kicking butt. I didn't think she would, I'm impressed by that. I look forward to seeing the rest of the battle, if nothing else. :) However, I don't agree with the idea that Vivid lacks plot, personally, but that's been done to death, just saying I think it does, it's just feeling somewhat slot because it's a monthly manga.

[Zero Hurricane]

Lacking the plot is not a problem. The problem is, the conflict is less flavored. If the physical conflict just does not matter. It's just that if not balanced with inner conflict, it's all pointless. Because the inner conflict is the most important element in the storyline.

ViVid so far has shown its fangs to the fans who miss old school style magical girl, and invites readers to get to know more about the history of Ancient Belka. It's just too much fanservice displayed. And to note again is the number of characters that continues bloated and bloated. If not react to it carefully and wisely, either ViVid and Force could be two of Nanoha franchise is losing focus and protracted without clear direction.

[Kaijo]

Not necesarely, you just care about it in a different way. (as you said yourself)

Oh, I didn't say I didn't care completely... if I did, I wouldn't be reading Vivid. I just said a lack of plot makes it hard to care. I recently watched Dog Days, and while mildly interesting, there wasn't much of a plot there, either. No real danger. And the result was that it felt really boring.

The latest Vivid chapter is a real good example of boring, too, because we get page after page of people going "I'm going to do my best!" and "Do you're best!" and "We're all going to have a fun time!"

It's downtime between action, and without a plot, it comes across much more like dragging things out. Whereas downtime in Force is still interesting because plot details are still being revealed during it. Since Vivid has no real plot, nothing much is there to keep you interested between fights. As I said, there is nothing at stake, at least nothing that the reader really cares about.

But I do care about the world details, and seeing how the characters have grown and changed. But it's in more in a way that I would read a Battletech technical readout, or a Star Trek Technical manual, or a D&D comprehensive guide. Interesting details, but not exactly a story.

[Akiyoshi]

I become a meta example now xD?

Plot is not an end-all-be-all deal-breaker in a story. Otherwise stories like ARIA would have been failures, but instead, the manga-ka made a comfortable enough living from its success. Nobody complains about the lack of an over-arcing plot in ARIA, because it is not what ARIA is all about. It's more about its scenery-porn and "so-heartwarming-it-makes-you-want-to-die" moments that makes it so... endearing to its audience.

This. Not all stories are about "saving the world" i love Azumanga Daioh for example. The series barely have any plot but is fun as hell and i care very much for the characters(Tomo-chan FTW!).

Force thus far, does have a compelling plot. The idea is there, and it IS intriguing. To me personally, Force's problem is not really its plot idea, but more on its execution. I have already said my pieces in the Force thread, so I won't repeat them here.

Also agreed with this, i already said that Force isn't thaaat bad as a stand alone story. My own take on it is that i feel the old cast is out of place in that story, that's only me but i also can feel the bad execution at some points. In fact, the bad execution of various elements in Force is what allowed me to note good elements in it easier(like the recent Ch. 19, the Hucks VS. Fakes fight was much better coreographed than any other battle of that manga to date).

Lacking the plot is not a problem. The problem is, the conflict is less flavored. If the physical conflict just does not matter. It's just that if not balanced with inner conflict, it's all pointless. Because the inner conflict is the most important element in the storyline.

Forgive me for opening the Pandora's Box again but i feel this is also present in Force to degree, i'm councsious that the Signum VS. Cypha fight was meant to stablish the Huckebein as a threat as also depicting in detail what they can do with their powers, both objetives where accomplished but the characters itself didn't gained much from that fight. Cypha hasn't become the "General Grievous" that we expected slaughtering tons of strong characters adn instead becomes an exposition lady most of the manga and Signum didn't even cares about the fight or what's happening as a consequence so ...character-wise it was a pointless fight, neother of the three involved had any real motivation.

I like ViVid but i also acknowledge this problem. Einhart is the one closer to have something we can call a "goal" and, while the fights do a good job at showcasing the powers and abilities of the contestants, there isn't any conflict or motives strong enough to justify the effort of the girls on the battlefield. I like tournament arcs because normally those work to flesh out new characters, stories and fightstyles and those who become popular enough usually manage to stick on the main plot and make more appearances in future chapters, even becoming support/main characters with enough luck.

Almost zero background is given in ViVid for the other girls aside from what we can see about their interactions between them. I wonder what kind of backstory Micaiah had to be that serious and focused on becoming strong(all we know is that Sieglinde curbstomped her at some point and she wanted to settle the scores), Harii is comically sensitive but also very hot blooded during a fight, it will be interesting to know the background behind that personality and i really want to know what's the past of that little witch-themed girl. I feel that the only showed at the moment with potential to be more fleshed out are Victoria and Sieglinde.

Aside of those flaws(and the inecessary excess of fanservice), i find ViVid as an enjoyable story, the plot is weak but it have interesting characters, show more about normal mid-childan life and the think i like the most is that it finally compensate minor characters with some love and screentime(isn't that right Zafira?). We know the girls are the main characters but is good to see abadoned characters finally having the chance to speak and do stuff.

I want to have a Zafira VS. Nove match. That will be agood fight xD.

....also the lack of unecessary bad blood between contestants which prevents the opponents from becomin gloating smug supers is one of the things i like of this manga xD.

[mechdra]

I believe Vivid is not lacking in plot. Rather, they are developing it slowly. I guess the three seasons of MGLN that is filled with darkness and emo spoil the fan. Some people could not accept sunshine and rainbow after they had been under a rainy sky for too long and get used to it. This is a slice of life manga and we need to accept that. You may say that it is not important to the story like what is happening in Force but we could not ignore its existance as well.

[00-Raiser]

If by slowly you mean 'not at all' then yes. There is nothing shown in Vivid to suggest a grander storyline that will have impact on anything (if anything was going to happen, it would have been reflected in Force).

Maybe if there were some mysterious bald guys (or girls in this case) with weird Ms on their foreheads in the tournament we'd have something.

As it stands you could completely skip Vivid and not miss anything that would prevent you from understanding the rest of the franchise.

[Justin_Brett]

It's not like they were going to spoil future developments in ViVid during that little cameo. One shot of them indicates nothing either way.

[00-Raiser]

Let me put it this way: the events of Force are causing Mid Childan society itself to undergo drastic changes.

Between SSX and before Force, are there any notable changes to the setting and characters? Nope. Meaning anything that happens in Vivid likely won't have any sort of major impact on the franchise.

Look at Vivid like Full Metal Panic Fumoffu: it's enjoyable and worth the look, but it has no impact on what is presented in the first season and TSR.

[Dark Wing]

If by slowly you mean 'not at all' then yes. There is nothing shown in Vivid to suggest a grander storyline that will have impact on anything (if anything was going to happen, it would have been reflected in Force)

So you're saying that if there was some sort of attempt by an intergalactic terrorist group to sabotage the tournament you'd all be more interested? :rolleyes:

Come on people this is a slice of life, martial arts, sports, fan-service, shounen-ish manga we already knew after a few chapters in. Still thats no reason to just rag on the story.

[Justin_Brett]

Yeah, not every story needs to upheaval the entire setting to be interesting. That's just unnecessary.

[Zero Hurricane]

So you're saying that if there was some sort of attempt by an intergalactic terrorist group to sabotage the tournament you'd all be more interested? :rolleyes:

Come on people this is a slice of life, martial arts, sports, fan-service, shounen-ish manga we already knew after a few chapters in. Still thats no reason to just rag on the story.

Actually we all don't want that to happen. But personally, I myself yet to found the inner conflicts of each character at all.

Everything you say is right. Just a lack of inner conflict is tasteless to me. I mean, although there is slice of life elements in it, until today I have not found the inner conflicts of each main character. What I found was just excitement, but without the pain in inner. Fan-service, okay. But the presentation is too excessive. I see it just felt like eating Larb Leuat Neua (an extrme Thai cuisine. Made from a raw beef doused with gore and a sprinkling of mint leaves).

[00-Raiser]

It's a matter of emotional investment. Readers are less inclined to become invested when there's nothing at stake and they know that whatever happens it inevitably doesn't matter.

[Keroko]

For me, the lack of plot is something I can gloss over. Yeah, I would have preferred some plot, but there's enough to balance it out and keep me reading.

What is threatening more recently is the lack of a goal. In most tournament stories, the characters have a reason for winning the tournament. Vivio has none, and for being the main character... that's quite a big weakness. Like others said, there's nothing at stake. If they lose, they'll pout, get back to training and try again. No, it doesn't need to have the world at stake, but an actual goal would have been nice.

[mechdra]

I guess the manga made the first mistake by making Einhart too normal. She should have been abused, on wheelchair, orphan, cyborg, and possibly emo. That way people will start to pay more attention. Am I right?

The lack of mad scientist, mass murderer, Squall clone, sadist and cool antagonist make this series worse. Am I right?

Worse of all, Vivio did not stand on some random place and scream she felt life is meaningless . Am I right?

Speaking of goal in a fighting tournament. Vivio is just like any little girl who wants to join a competition, it is just for fun and test their skills and strength. Nanoha are involved in two major case when she is young. Vivio on the other hand is not involved in anything at all and Force prove this as well. One way to know how strong she is now is by joining a tournament.

[Keroko]

So give her an actual goal to reach, and motivation to get there and focus on that. Right now, she doesn't even care if she loses before she reaches the finals. Hell, she is even saying that she's not going to get that far. If the main character herself barely even cares whether that she's not going to win, why should the readers?

[Rising Dragon]

Y'know, mechdra, it really, really looks like you're trying to put words in our mouths. Stop it, will you?

[00-Raiser]

Just because we're critisizing it doesn't mean we think "OMG WORST MANGA EVER!!!" Most of us have said repeatedly what they like about the manga and that they still enjoy it.

Still, it's only fluff. Sure, I like cotton candy and all, but would I rather have a nice juicy steak for dinner? You bet.

Adding in dark elements can be a detriment too if done improperly. I've recently looked through the later Jinki:Extend volumes and damn right I'm fucking pissed off about how most of the heroines get graphically raped for no damn good reason, especially when it is completely ignored afterwards. It used to be a mecha comedy for pete's sake.

[mechdra]

Hey guys, what I said easrlier are just the elements of MGLN of the past and present. These elements can be found in MGLN, MGLN A's, MGLN Strikers and Force.

I am glad that you guys do agree that it is a rainbow filled manga. I guess it is just the dessert of a full course meal.

[Kaijo]

They had a bit of a plot with Einhart at first, but that was wrapped up and there doesn't seem to be much more to it. If they developed that, and ancient belka more, they might have something.

Say there is a deliberate memory that Einhart has from Claus, but it's a half-memory and something is missing. Something that led to Olive's death, and Einhart sees similarities between Vivio and Olive (the desire to protect people so much that one is willing to sacrifice their life for it). She doesn't want Vivio to repeat the same thing, and for whatever reason, she feels like it's going to happen.

And the tournament is showing her just how weak she and Vivio are, so she has worries she won't be strong enough, just like Claus was. It could have been set up to show that real injury and death is possible in the tournament, and then toss in some people who don't care how much they may injure their opponent in a match.

Perhaps a bit cliche, but this was just off the cuff stuff. I'm sure with a bit more thought, one could come up with a story that has everything we've seen so far *and* a plot. Hell, they could have interspersed this story with flashbacks to Claus and Olive, perhaps mirroring events of back then with the tourney happening today.

[Justin_Brett]

I'm glad they didn't do something like put in flashbacks during other people's fights, honestly. Only letting one or two people be important or cool is a general flaw of most tournament arcs.

[Iromaru]

Since Vivid has no real plot, nothing much is there to keep you interested between fights. As I said, there is nothing at stake, at least nothing that the reader really cares about.

This is stupid beyond words.

So, let's say we have a soccer manga/anime. There is no plot and nothing interesting because they are not trying to kill each other? Every sports manga ever is boring and has no plot because there is no "real danger"? Seriously now...

Whereas downtime in Force is still interesting because plot details are still being revealed during it.

No it isn't. Everything that happened in force is cliche, generic and boring. It feels like another shitty shonen #8675864. Characters are acting unnatural and stupid. Setting is slowly getting ruined. It tries to be serious and "mature" but fails horribly. Fights are Bleach tier. Almost all new characters suck. It feels like a bad doujin, and I saw tons of doujins with much better art and battle choreography.

Just because there is plot doesn't instantly make it good.

[Rising Dragon]

This is stupid beyond words.

So, let's say we have a soccer manga/anime. There is no plot and nothing interesting because they are not trying to kill each other? Every sports manga ever is boring and has no plot because there is no "real danger"? Seriously now...

Okay, I'll bite. Since you're sooooooooooo insistent that ViVid actually has a plot, why don't you go ahead and spell out what that plot is for us ignorant hicks?

[00-Raiser]

So, let's say we have a soccer manga/anime. There is no plot and nothing interesting because they are not trying to kill each other? Every sports manga ever is boring and has no plot because there is no "real danger"? Seriously now...

Sports mangas often have set goals. I'll use baseball as an example: almost all baseball animes/manga are about high schoolers trying to go to Koshien (and the series stops when they get there for some reason. Why can we never see the team actually participating in Koshien?). With high schoolers they have 3 years to get there before they have to graduate. It usually follows the team working hard to get better and make it before time runs out. Vivid kinda lacks in this department because the training is very briefly seen so we're less inclined to want to see their hard work pay off because we haven't seen said hard work. Compare it to Cross Game or Moshidora: we see them every step of the way and we want them to succeed.

The rest of your post is, like, your opinion man. If you want to randomly flame Force do it elsewhere.

[Justin_Brett]

Man, and you guys call me negative on it.

[Zero Hurricane]

Because in every tournament arc, the protagonist not just become more powerful, but also aims to please the people he or she loved, such as friends, family, and even lovers. By studying each of deficiency and advantages the opponents have, the protagonist's ability more and more steadily, and one step ahead. Who knows if he or she can make new friends.

And coupled with the conflict in which protagonist experiencing trauma. Traumatized by the defeat that he or she had experienced before. But over time, he or she managed to defeat the fear he experienced.

If shonen manga can do like I said before, even the sports can do it too. Vivid so far more concerned sheer enjoyment than the personal conflicts of each character. To test their abilities through the tournament, it doesn't matter anyway. But more important is the mental capabilities and intelligence in dealing with any difficulties that exist. That requirement is even more important if you want to become stronger.

[00-Raiser]

Still, all the Vivid characters' motivations boil down to "I want to win."

That's all fine and well but it is comparatively shallow. I'll use Moshidora again: not only did they want to get to Koshien, they wanted to go for the sake of an ill close friend who eventually dies before they reach their goal, making it that much more important to get there.

Vivid is fine, but it could be a lot better with some added depth.

[Zero Hurricane]

In essence, every tournament arc has a more important goal, besides simply being the strongest. Some wanted to continue the struggle waged by the seniors, some are like happy people who are dear. In addition, the main character can also learn from rivals who could be inspired to become better than before.

Perhaps the example that you point out is good. I can also give other examples. For example, Naruto in Chuunin Exam Arc. He was not just become stronger, but also wants to find its identity as a true Konoha shinobi. In addition, he can also get a new friend, although it should be through a fierce fight. The other characters, too, each one has its own conflicts, such as the conflict between the relatives as Neji and Hinata, friendship as Sakura and Ino, and also Gaara, who consider himself as living weapon. And that's what enriches the story itself.

If their training in Carnaaji just add a little mental training and intelligence, may be further enrich their capabilities, in addition to cutting water training.

[Akiyoshi]

That's Nanoha's spartan way of training, you and your frinds become stronger by beating the lights out of each other for various days xD

[Iromaru]

Still, all the Vivid characters' motivations boil down to "I want to win."

There is a bit more than that.

Einhart wants to fulfill the dream of her long deceased ancestor. Vivio wants to prove everyone that she can get good at strike arts despite the fact she's not really suited for it. Einhart is changing and slowly opening for others. There is the issue of sleeping Ixpellia that was obviously mentioned for a reason. We are slowly getting to know what exactly happened during the times of Sankt Kaiser. Etc.

Sure, it's a very basic plot. But saying it's not a real plot because there is no real danger is stupid.

There is no real danger in Force either. Who cares if some unnamed people we never knew are dying? Who cares if some villains we know for one chapter are killed? Nobody important will die. Signum, Hayate, Vita and Erio are a proof of that. I don't care if people I don't care about die.

There is no real tension or danger of death because we all know Tsuzuki will never kill any of the popular characters. Just because there is some blood doesn't mean that fights in force are suddenly more serious and interesting. Audience must care about the dead person for death to have any impact at all.

That's why I don't understand why battles in Vivid are suddenly less interesting because "they are not for real". No matter if it's Vivid or Force in the end characters will end up in hospital in the worst case scenario anyways.

[Kuze]

To be honest, all of the newcomers kinda have the vibe like they would be really upset about outright losing. Llike Fate during the A's comic versus Chrono, just without anything at stake really, other than... I don't know, being afraid of having their feelings hurt? Afraid Vivio won't pay as much attention to them if they do? IDK.

On a side note, I still have no definite conclusion on the reliability of the MCA traducciones en español para ViViD, but if I read it right, Sieg and company decide that they should not go to see Micaiah this year after she lost to Miura. Which I'm sure probably has a reasonable thread behind that, but still comes off as just dismissive. I can't say it's really the attitude of a warrior.

But eh, I seriously doubt that we'll never see Micaiah again. She'll just have to wait for a while probably.

[Zero Hurricane]

Einhart wants to fulfill the dream of her long deceased ancestor. Vivio wants to prove everyone that she can get good at strike arts despite the fact she's not really suited for it. Einhart is changing and slowly opening for others. There is the issue of sleeping Ixpellia that was obviously mentioned for a reason. We are slowly getting to know what exactly happened during the times of Sankt Kaiser. Etc.

Indeed, but personally I'm curious, what would happen if ever Ixpellia awoke sometime later. Perhaps she woke up in the middle of the tournament :uhoh:

There is no real danger in Force either. Who cares if some unnamed people we never know are dying? Who cares if some villains we know for one chapter are killed? Nobody important will die. Signum, Hayate, Vita and Erio are a proof of that. I don't care if people I don't care about die.

Since the controversial Chapter 13, the Huckebeins being the real danger after Hayate stabbed through back. Indeed Hayate and the others just okay, it just the antagonists' swell-headed nature make them more worthy to die, than to befriended. However, my thinking changed since Chapter 19. Only a portion of their personality that can be cured, others must be discarded because the problem itself is the culprit.

That's why I don't understand why battles in Vivid are suddenly less interesting because "they are not for real". No matter if it's Vivid or Force in the end characters will end up in hospital in the worst case scenario anyways.

Probably due to increasing its character, its quality decreases.

[Justin_Brett]

I still have no definite conclusion on the reliability of the MCA traducciones en español para ViViD, but if I read it right, Sieg and company decide that they should not go to see Micaiah this year after she lost to Miura.

Oh, one of them 'showing concern = pity' things? Never did like those, really.

[Kuze]

See, this is why I'm so glad that I read Planetes. No main character died, and yet we got to see how the world at large was forced into social, political, and economic upheaval and change. There was danger all the same, and it was handled maturely. Among love between space garbage collectors, and a hot shot pilot reconciling with her son.

Not all stakes have death waiting at the end. But hey, that's why I have zero interest in describing genres and comics with vast strokes. I'd sooner recognize differences than similarities, kthxbye.

Oh, one of them 'showing concern = pity' things? Never did like those, really.

Maybe, maybe not, I guess that waiting for VT english is the best chance at a definitive answer.

That said? One of the reasons why I absolutely love Game of Honor with Samuel L. Mother****ing Jackson and the Friday Night Lights movie is that while losing is /not/ a happy hour for either team, they can, and do hold their heads high with a measure of pride. They did absolutely everything they could, and lost to a superior team that did the same. They've got zero reason to be ashamed.

Of course, it's hard to apply the same lesson to series like Negima or ViViD or Prince of Tennis with their SUPER BEST AT EVERYTHING AWESOME BEAUTIFUL MAX OUT HERITAGE INCREDIBLE (DID YOU HEAR ME BEFORE) ULTRA BESTEST characters who can make the efforts of others look, well, absolutely pitiful. But them's the cards.

[00-Raiser]

Einhart wants to fulfill the dream of her long deceased ancestor.

Einhart hasn't even mentioned that since her 2nd match with Vivio. She states that she's entered the tournament to see how strong she is. Her ancestor's memories don't factor into it.

Vivio wants to prove everyone that she can get good at strike arts despite the fact she's not really suited for it.

Vivio's never said anything like that. It was Shante, Otto, and Deed who were discussing that. Vivio's only ever said she's doing what she's doing because she likes it.

A character loses a match in Vivid, it's no big deal, they can just try again next time no problem. Section 6 loses to the Huckebein, that means there's a gang of dangerous criminals roaming free that could take even more lives and continue to be a threat that could undermine the Bureau as a whole. Plus the failure calls Section 6's abilities into question and so on.

You can clearly see which has more weight.

In the Chuunin exams, failure could have potentially meant death.

[Justin_Brett]

And then no-one important actually saw the consequences of that statement at all. I don't even think anyone died from stuff in the exams, just outside interference from the villains. Anything can potentially happen. Potentially, Nanoha could have gotten more than superficially wounded in that last fight, but that was also demonstrably a false threat.

[00-Raiser]

It's just a matter of having something on the line. Like, say, if Seiglinde really does have some health problems and soon she'll be too sick to do anything so this'll be her last tournament and she wants to go out on top. That would be something you could get really invested in.

[Justin_Brett]

That most likely wouldn't just be the threat of something by itself, so I can't say I'd mind.

[Akiyoshi]

There is no real danger in Force either. Who cares if some unnamed people we never knew are dying? Who cares if some villains we know for one chapter are killed? Nobody important will die. Signum, Hayate, Vita and Erio are a proof of that. I don't care if people I don't care about die.

There's a LOT of danger in Force but i agree with you in that the portrayal of the villains was weak during the first 18 chapters, as also the significance and background/aftermath of most of the battles, Tsuzuki seems to point at something very critical but chickens out when the time comes(that's one of the reasons i wished Signum died when he created the chance).

It's easier to enjoy and accept ViVid because so far the plot didn't make any big pretentions, the downside is that we can't feel any real conflict but the upside is that we aren't forced to expect some contrived plot either and thus we're able to accept the manga for what it is.

[tiancai]

spoiler ch 29
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3229/dsc00428xw.jpg

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/9272/dsc00431oy.jpg

[Keroko]

Sure, it's a very basic plot. But saying it's not a real plot because there is no real danger is stupid.

You know what's funny? Nobody is saying that. It's you who seems to think that every time someone says there's no plot that they mean danger.

There is a bit more than that.

Einhart wants to fulfill the dream of her long deceased ancestor. Vivio wants to prove everyone that she can get good at strike arts despite the fact she's not really suited for it. Einhart is changing and slowly opening for others. There is the issue of sleeping Ixpellia that was obviously mentioned for a reason. We are slowly getting to know what exactly happened during the times of Sankt Kaiser. Etc.

Out of those two, only Einhart's is a true motivation. Vivio's is more mentioned on the side, and never really focused on as something she really wants to achieve. Heck, even Einhart's goal is fading more and more into the background. Scratch that, chapter 29 seems to be doing something about that. Nice.

Compare that to, say, Aria. A manga devoid of any fighting, with the biggest danger being falling of your gondola and getting wet. Yet, even in such an action-less manga, there's still a form of progression. Why? Because the main character has a clear goal which she (and in turn the story) focuses on. Yes, she has lots of fun adventures, but the red line remains constantly present, and you see the main character grow closer towards her goal as a result.

Vivid lacks this focus. It's not something that'll doom this manga right here, right now, and it's something that's easily fixed, but it is something that makes some people wonder where it is.

That's why I don't understand why battles in Vivid are suddenly less interesting because "they are not for real". No matter if it's Vivid or Force in the end characters will end up in hospital in the worst case scenario anyways.

Vivid battles are less interesting because it doesn't matter who wins or loses. There doesn't have to be lives at stake. Nobody is claiming that. But look at any other sports manga. There's still something at stake in each and every one of them: A dream. A dream with often an interesting story behind it. Something that makes the character push themselves above and beyond their limits.

In Vivid though? The characters do this for the fun of it. They don't even expect to make it far themselves. Unlike other sports manga, where the characters drip with motivation to be the best, odds be damned.

[Kaijo]

That's why I don't understand why battles in Vivid are suddenly less interesting because "they are not for real". No matter if it's Vivid or Force in the end characters will end up in hospital in the worst case scenario anyways.

Just want to correct this, because the contestants won't end up in a hospital. All the damage is simulated due to magic; that was why they have safety devices. So we don't even have the threat of injury or death to motivate us.

spoiler ch 29
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3229/dsc00428xw.jpg

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/9272/dsc00431oy.jpg


And looks like Corona is beating the crap out of Einhart, who then has a flashback to Claus & Olive days, which means Einhart will suddenly find the strength to win, most likely. Standard shonen thing. I have to say, though, the power levels on this are all over the map.

[Justin_Brett]

Corona's been taking her vitamins.

[Akiyoshi]

Apparently Corona will indeed face Sieglinde xD

...Kaiser arts were just flashy punches and kicks in the end apparently xDU

[Iromaru]

Maybe I need to clarify this a bit, I'm not saying that Vivid's plot is good (it's not) but it's definitely not worse that Force's plot.

Both series fail horribly went it comes to plot, but at least Vivid managed to make me care about the new cast. It's obvious Vivid is supposed to be a series focused on characters, and it's doing a fine job with it's characters.

Force on the other hand is supposed to be a plot focused series. The problem is this plot is incredibly cliche and uninteresting. It's just another boy meets girl story with cliche as hell villains and popular characters forced into the mix to improve sales.

The big battle with Huckebeins played exactly as I expected, and was executed much worse that I hoped. Touma and Lily are horribly boring characters. Especially Touma who has DARK and SAD past, is suddenly best friends with all popular characters and became uber powerful for no reason other than because he's the MC. Huckebeins are boring and overpowered too.

What is Vivid supposed to be? A magical SoL manga with some fighting and fanservice. And it's exactly that.

What is Force supposed to be? A serious and plot heavy story with a dark tone. And it fails horribly at being what it's supposed to be.

[Keroko]

... Why are you constantly switching the subject to Force? We are talking about Vivid and the areas it's lacking and could use improvement.

[Justin_Brett]

Seriously, when you're making ME look moderate...

[Keroko]

I just don't see why the constant jabs at Force are needed. All the critics have been saying is "well, I like Vivid, but I think it could be better if-" not "Vivid sucks, Force is so much better." Nobody's claimed that. At least, not as far as I've read.

[Zero Hurricane]

Maybe I need to clarify this a bit, I'm not saying that Vivid's plot is good (it's not) but it's definitely not worse that Force's plot.

Both series fail horribly went it comes to plot, but at least Vivid managed to make me care about the new cast. It's obvious Vivid is supposed to be a series focused on characters, and it's doing a fine job with it's characters.

Force on the other hand is supposed to be a plot focused series. The problem is this plot is incredibly cliche and uninteresting. It's just another boy meets girl story with cliche as hell villains and popular characters forced into the mix to improve sales.

The big battle with Huckebeins played exactly as I expected, and was executed much worse that I hoped. Touma and Lily are horribly boring characters. Especially Touma who has DARK and SAD past, is suddenly best friends with all popular characters and became uber powerful for no reason other than because he's the MC. Huckebeins are boring and overpowered too.

What is Vivid supposed to be? A magical SoL manga with some fighting and fanservice. And it's exactly that.

What is Force supposed to be? A serious and plot heavy story with a dark tone. And it fails horribly at being what it's supposed to be.

Either Vivid and Force are equally interesting. Just my criticism is that the quality itself. It doesn't matter if it included fanservice elements in it, just the proportion must be fitted.

Any demographic, not the problem. No matter it's shounen, shoujo, or seinen. However, a nice picture and spoil the eye doesn't mean guarantee has an interesting story anyway. That's just not enough. The more necessary is the storyline, character development, plot, and penetration in the behavior of fans know that change often. Not to mention, since Strikers, there are many growing number of characters and used as a decoration that can be simply discarded and replaced. Without explore deeper into the background and characteristics of each character.

[00-Raiser]

The problem is this plot is incredibly cliche and uninteresting. It's just another boy meets girl story with cliche as hell villains and popular characters forced into the mix to improve sales.

Funny, you could say the same of Vivid, only change it to "girl meets girl" and change "villains" to "rivals". :rolleyes:

Need I remind you that tropes aren't bad?

For the record I do think Force is a lot better than Vivid.

[Zero Hurricane]

Vivid and Force both are equally good. Only the quality and content of the story on the wane, but still worth to read it.

[00-Raiser]

Certainly if you're a Nanoha fan there's no reason not to read either manga.

[aers]

http://aers.yshi.org/i/20110927162051315.png

..I have trouble believing that total sales number based on the known sales counts, but if so, damn. That's pretty good. Fantastic even, for this series.

[00-Raiser]

What's it saying the sales number is?

[aers]

Near 1mil total. Like, I could see that for all the volumes of Force + Vivid, but the article is about Vivid, implying Vivid's sold near 1mil total.

It just doesn't add up, the volumes are averaging like 80k-100k first month... and I assume this total doesn't include Vol 4.

Note that I asked a couple different people what this said but they could all be mistaken. That number being 1 million is true for sure though.

[Iromaru]

Near 1mil total. Like, I could see that for all the volumes of Force + Vivid, but the article is about Vivid, implying Vivid's sold near 1mil total.

It just doesn't add up, the volumes are averaging like 80k-100k first month... and I assume this total doesn't include Vol 4.

Note that I asked a couple different people what this said but they could all be mistaken. That number being 1 million is true for sure though.

Sales numbers that are posted on the net are from Oricon, and Oricon doesn't include all retailers. Actual sales are usually higher. I remember a japanese blog saying actual sales for anime are around 20% higher and actual sales for manga are 50% higher.

But still, 1 million...

[Keroko]

Numbers also tend to be rounded up rather liberally to sound fanciful. Claiming a million sales sounds good on paper, while the actual number might be more around 900.000.

Which still is no number to sniff at, mind you. Especially for a single country those are pretty damn good numbers.

[Mirron]

Hmm... 29 looks interesting. Darn it, wish it was translated faster.

And personally enjoying Vivid more, of the two. I do feel that I've managed to grow rather attached to all the characters so far. I'm also curious about the new details they'll reveal about the world. Force, so far, doesn't look to be introducing too much, or, rather, looks like it'll be focused on one thing, whereas here, they at least look to be talking of new magic systems, if nothing else.

[Zero Hurricane]

True, although there are some disadvantages that, Vivid is more suitable as a refresher and reference closer to the reader to become familiar with the entire contents of the Mid Childa and Belka. Force is good too, only there's is moment that makes me headache...

[Mirron]

I don't see Vivid as a refresher. Rather, it looks to be the start of it's own series. It's a branch of the main series, whereas Force looks to be dealing with continuing the main story.

And, to the comment Vivid won't change Midchilda, that's to be expected. With it running alongside Force, they can't have it doing that.

[Akiyoshi]

And, to the comment Vivid won't change Midchilda, that's to be expected. With it running alongside Force, they can't have it doing that.

To be fair we still don't know how things are going in Mid-Childa druing Force as the main action is in Namek Ruwella, Vaizen and other worlds.

[Justin_Brett]

One million? I guess it has been a couple years, but I didn't think people liked it that much.

[00-Raiser]

It helps that the takubons have extra fanservice.

Vivid is a very safe series. It doesn't do anything drastic or heavy and just eases along at it's own pace. Readers can get comfortable with it and be satisfied with the fan pandering.

Force by comparison is not. It has fans worried that something bad will happen and it'll change what they know and love forever. It's a scary prospect which is part of the reason for the many issues people have with it.

[Mirron]

True. It could change, but I'd be surprised. The scope looks to be a lot smaller than normal Nanoha.

[00-Raiser]

Right? Season 1 through StrikerS had the fate of reality hanging in the balance.

Vivid has girls fighting in a tournament for the lulz.

[Justin_Brett]

Issues for characters they think they can get away with having bad things happen to. Force tries to have its cake and eat it too. And you definitely can't say it doesn't pander as much as ViVid.

[Mirron]

*shrugs* It doesn't make it bad though. It's nice seeing a bit of Midchilda and Nanoha in general without fate of reality and all that. After a while, gets kind of old. Glad that Force, so far, looks to be avoiding that too, even if it's still drastic.

[Akiyoshi]

^ Take this to the Force thread by quote xD

[Mirron]

But... it's mostly about Vivid. I was just including Force because it's also an example of less extreme stakes. It'd just suck for a while, but unlike the Cradle, I'll be surprised if they manage to pose an intergalactic threat, at least in the long run.

[Keroko]

Vivid does't need to do something world changing anyway, it can do plenty with the characters. Characters changing is just as interesting to follow as a world changing.

[Mirron]

Definitely agree. I think the main issue is that we're also dealing with partial translations, so it's hard to tell what, if any, character development.

[00-Raiser]

Vivid does't need to do something world changing anyway, it can do plenty with the characters. Characters changing is just as interesting to follow as a world changing.

Not saying it has to, but the point is just that Vivid lacks that extra 'umph' and people might not be as thrilled by the manga because of it.

[Zero Hurricane]

Do you mean pain and conflict?

[Keroko]

Not saying it has to, but the point is just that Vivid lacks that extra 'umph' and people might not be as thrilled by the manga because of it.

Maybe. I myself am perfectly fine with Vivid lacking a world-at-stake drama. I would rather see them create some conflict by giving the rest of the cast not named Einhart some actual goals and motivations to fight in this tournament. One of the main reasons we're so exited about the Corona/Einhart match is because we know something is at stake for Einhart, whereas for the previous fight between handcuff-girl and gang-girl... nobody really cared who'd win. Maybe at most a "well, I kinda like this character better, so it'd be nice if she wins."

[Zero Hurricane]

I'm agree with you.

Actually, I personally question the Einhart's own motivation. If we look at some of the previous chapter, the objective was clear that she wanted to be friends with Vivio and friends. But if we see from chapter 4, she had said she ambitious "massacred all the great leaders who endanger Belka". This is what makes me doubt her ambition. Actually, what did she do? Whether she was on a mission to find his friend and his true identity, or just run a revenge mission?

If she attempted to make friends and tried to open herself, I understand, it can be. But if she really seeks revenge, I must say that behind shyness...

saved trait like saying rude, never trust anyone, even tend to like bloody violence.

If the second theory I suggested really proven, then I must say that Einhart ...

is the only character in the Nanoha series, in which the original friend, turned into enemies.

Maybe it sounds a bit outrageous, but hey, don't be too serious.

[Akiyoshi]

Einhart is receiveng a decent amount of developement. She's on the receiving end of a brutal beating at the hands of Corona but, unlike "certain other brutal beating" from Force, this one have a meaning for both characters and is guaranteed this will affect their goals and personalities.

Corona is showing why she won't be taken lightly, that her training did really pay off(with lots of interests xD). At the same time Einhart is discovering how really weak she is and how far she's from her goal, i can feel the blow on her ego during the last scans of Ch. 29. Undepently of the upcoming of the match i think Einhart will not be satisfied with the results of her training and will seek a method to become stronger, of course, Nove will be there to guide Einhart and prevent the girl from overworking herself.

[00-Raiser]

I'm agree with you.

Actually, I personally question the Einhart's own motivation. If we look at some of the previous chapter, the objective was clear that she wanted to be friends with Vivio and friends. But if we see from chapter 4, she had said she ambitious "massacred all the great leaders who endanger Belka". This is what makes me doubt her ambition. Actually, what did she do? Whether she was on a mission to find his friend and his true identity, or just run a revenge mission?

If she attempted to make friends and tried to open herself, I understand, it can be. But if she really seeks revenge, I must say that behind shyness...

saved trait like saying rude, never trust anyone, even tend to like bloody violence.

If the second theory I suggested really proven, then I must say that Einhart ...

is the only character in the Nanoha series, in which the original friend, turned into enemies.

Maybe it sounds a bit outrageous, but hey, don't be too serious.

Well, dark ass pulls have proven to be popular *glances at Madoka*

[Zero Hurricane]

At least this is a good news for her. Actually, what kind of training that she receive from Nove?

If she was not satisfied with what she got, whether she should do to lead to more extreme way? From making her hands bleed until she had to take special medicines to double fold times her magic abilities?

I hope Nove could do the best as a teacher and coach. As for Ein, I hope don't force herself too much and too ambitious.

[Akiyoshi]

Wonder if Ein will have conflict with her new view of things and the results of this fight. She could relate her lack of strenght as the consequence of becoming "soft", being more relaxed and taken things more lightly since she started to hang out with ViVio & Co. and under Nove's care, after all, she did beat Nove which means she's under the training of someone weaker than her. Only for Nove to show her that things aren't like that and telling her to have patience to start noticing the results.

....of course, a rematch of Ein Vs. Nove would be pretty nice xD.

[Zero Hurricane]

At least so. As long as what she did don't lead to something crazy. Even more crazy than Homura.

I myself found some similarities between Einhart with Homura from Madoka Magica. Both are equally good in terms of sports and has an attractive appearance that makes it popular among St. Hilde school. Talking about her IQ anyway, I don't know. Maybe same level as Shikamaru, perhaps :D :heh:

Even they share similarities about her obsession. Vivio and Madoka respectively.

But unlike Einhart, Homura develops her badassery through the journey from time to time to save the people he loved, although she not interested in what around her. I myself wanted to see if she could do the same thing as Homura.

[Keroko]

Nah, Einhart has her ancestor's memory plaguing her. That's close enough already.

[Zero Hurricane]

Yeah. If just added the aloof behavior for Einhart, maybe she twice as cool.

[Mirron]

*shrugs* I think Einhart is plenty cool as it is. She seems plenty human so far, and I think they've done a good job with her so far, though more could show up in the future, hard to tell what they'll do exactly.

[mechdra]

Einhart is quite good for now but using Mamiko Noto as her voice make her a little weird. It makes her a little deadpan.

[Justin_Brett]

She can do other voices besides that, honestly.

[00-Raiser]

Generally Noto Mamiko sounds like, well, Noto Mamiko (except that one time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwjJk7hOSlc)).

Rather than deadpan, she's soft spoken which is what Einhart is.

[Justin_Brett]

I've seen her do a couple voices different from that, but I guess those were probably from before she got type-casted.

[mechdra]

She is still doing diffrent voice roles but the voice is Gears of Destiny sound deadpan. I am not sure but maybe she is soft spoken and gentle.

[Sheba]

I've seen her do a couple voices different from that, but I guess those were probably from before she got type-casted.
Rin from Mnemosyne, Bridget from Freezing... Yeah, she have been doing an effort to break from her usual roles.

[00-Raiser]

Rin from Mnemosyne, Bridget from Freezing... Yeah, she have been doing an effort to break from her usual roles.

Not really. Rin atleast was a typical "calm and cool" character for her. It's rarer to hear her do a chipper character, like Tomoe from Hanasaku Iroha.

[Akiyoshi]

I can only recognize her for her work as Yakumo Tsukamoto from School Rumble XDU

[Tiresias]

I can only recognize her for her work as Yakumo Tsukamoto from School Rumble XDU

My favourite :p

Anyway I think I missed something because...why the sudden talk about voice actors? Has there been any announcement of a Vivid anime adaptation or such? :confused:

[mechdra]

It is because she is in the upcoming Nanoha game. The official site of the game and the commercial of the game feature her voice. I do actually hope it will be either Horie Yui or Kana Hanazawa.

I guess they would like to balance out since Ix is voiced by Ayako Kawasumi.

[00-Raiser]

I can only recognize her for her work as Yakumo Tsukamoto from School Rumble XDU

That's the first role through which I became familiar with her.

My favourite :p

Anyway I think I missed something because...why the sudden talk about voice actors? Has there been any announcement of a Vivid anime adaptation or such? :confused:

Mamiko is confirmed for voicing Einhart in the PSP game.

[00-Raiser]

Raws are out

I guess what was giving Corona an edge was that she's able to merge the strength of her golem into her own body, so each of her blows were like getting hit by the golem. Her device also has a bracelet form.

They get healed after a round and now Einhart is the one with the clear upper hand and is now trouncing Corona.