View Full Version : The Character Discussion Thread of SOS団 Member: Yuki Nagato
CrowKenobi
2009-08-26, 06:04
The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things Yuki Nagato related.
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Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-26, 06:21
I hereby claim this thread in the name of the Great Goddess, whose divine beauty and serene grace are a blessing to all those who behold her. Those that praise the Goddess will be bathed in the light, while those who dare to slight her receive severe punishment from above.
My fellow believers, never again shall we have to fear the naysayers and the heathens, for this is our place, and they have no right to be here!
... Too much or not enough? I never know. :heh:
First I would like to say, "Yes I am a Nagato fan."
Now with that out of the way. I will be the first to say it, since it should take the sting out of it (well, for me at least...)... Nagato is a newer school Rei Ayanami.
There I said it, now no one else needs to say it and hate on our magical/book loving/Humanoid Interface.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-26, 06:37
Nagato took what Rei started and vastly improved upon it.
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 06:38
First I would like to say, "Yes I am a Nagato fan."
Now with that out of the way. I will be the first to say it, since it should take the sting out of it (well, for me at least...)... Nagato is a newer school Rei Ayanami.
There I said it, now no one else needs to say it and hate on our magical/book loving/Humanoid Interface.
She is a dramatic improvement on Rei Ayanami, imo.
Rei's character was ultimately way more creepy than Nagato is, imo, and with Nagato, I get a far stronger sense of serious loyalty to all of her friends than I got from Rei. With Rei, I felt she was loyal to one guy - Gendo.
Like I said she is a newer school Rei Ayanami. A version up if you will.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-26, 06:39
... Shinji, too, towards the end. But this isn't the Rei thread, dang it. :heh:
But this isn't the Rei thread, dang it. :heh:
It's a Rei thread now, dammit. The reason that I don't like Nagato so much is because she is the new Rei. She's that someone who is so quiet, you can say anything to her and not have a responce (with two words or more).
And then she'll fuck you up in a fraction of a second.
Daniel Lind
2009-08-26, 09:35
Nagato is not an improvement upon Rei Ayanami, she is completely another take on the archetype.
OkamiNoKaze
2009-08-26, 09:45
Yuki is easily my second favorite on the show.
I'm pretty sure it was her fight with Ryoko that did it
That scene was so epic, in fact that entire scene is probably one of the greatest in all of anime.
Think is, I never cared all that much for Rei, but I'm all for Yuki. Rei was suppose to be creepy and not liked (though the creator got it wrong it seems). Yuki is suppose to be liked, and this was successfully implemented. A take on the quiet, sort of mysterious girl with short hair. Yuki adds to this with the reading and at first the glasses. Then she tops it with powers and abilities followed by her eyes. Eyes are the well to the soul, and by looking into Yuki's eyes you can see that she has one.
As expected from Nagato-san, Her tread is already the bigger of the character treads :heh:
Anyway, I agree she is a kinda copy of Rei, even her name is a pun to it. Both 'Nagato' and 'Ayaname' are battleships and 'Rei' mean 'could while 'Yuki can mean 'snow'.
I don't used to like Nagato, even though her battle scene with Asakura is awesome. However, latter books make me change my opinions. After then, I can easly say she is a vastly improoved version of Rei. It is spoiler, tough.
PP:
Nagato is not an improvement upon Rei Ayanami, she is completely another take on the archetype.
I guess you can say that too. I don't say Eva anime, however, the Rei from the manga is very similar to Nagato, in how their emotions grows with the time.
Rei was a deconstruction of the emotionaless girl archetype; I'm not sure whether Yuki is a straight play of the trope or some kind of subversion.
I'd point out that the Ayanami was a destroyer (all three of them)...a rather small warship of its day. Nagato was a rather large battleship in its day. Also rather fast in its day, and the first to sport 16 inch guns, the most powerful type in general use until the production of the 18 inch guns for the Yamato, some 20 years later, and as large as anything used by any other Naval Power's guns fitted since Nagato was launched.
Small note: Battleship Nagato was the only Japanese Battleship to survive the Second World War. It was taken by the United States for inspection and then later used along with many older America warships of the same vintage, as a target in the Bikini atomic bomb tests. She sank there.
PrincessFrani
2009-08-26, 10:09
Yuki has to be the best out of the SOS Brigade. She might even be more godly than Haruhi.
Yuki has to be the best out of the SOS Brigade. She might even be more godly than Haruhi.
Yessss. This is what I find most interesting about Nagato. She has all these powers at her disposal, yet her job is only to observe, and occasionally protect Kyon. It almost seems backwards that she has control of all this granted power from ITE, while concurring with the other parties that Haruhi is the one holding all the cards.
I'd point out that the Ayanami was a destroyer (all three of them)...a rather small warship of its day. Nagato was a rather large battleship in its day. Also rather fast in its day, and the first to sport 16 inch guns, the most powerful type in general use until the production of the 18 inch guns for the Yamato, some 20 years later, and as large as anything used by any other Naval Power's guns fitted since Nagato was launched.
Small note: Battleship Nagato was the only Japanese Battleship to survive the Second World War. It was taken by the United States for inspection and then later used along with many older America warships of the same vintage, as a target in the Bikini atomic bomb tests. She sank there.
This just prooves Yuki is more awesome then Ren :p
Rei was a deconstruction of the emotionaless girl archetype; I'm not sure whether Yuki is a straight play of the trope or some kind of subversion.
Book 4 make me thinks Yuki is more like a subversion
Is not really she don't have or don't know how express emotions. She is physically unable to, by desing
Nagato is nothing like TEH Rei. She's way above her.
Rei is creepy, and it doesn't help her that she's in the most hated anime of mine.
Nagato kicks ass. She's one of the myriad goddesses of mine.
Stardust Romance
2009-08-26, 12:02
You can say I came VERY late to the party of seeing the awesome-ness that is Yuki Nagato lol.
Maybe because I knew her archetype right away that I didn't like her as much.
But I'm finally finding her more interesting :)
The Chaos
2009-08-26, 12:06
Yuki has to be the best out of the SOS Brigade. She might even be more godly than Haruhi.
I agree 100 % ...Yuki-Chan is better haruhi :love:
We... need domeone who don't like Yuki here. Every one just saying how awesome Yuki is don't make a good discussion.
We... need domeone who don't like Yuki here. Every one just saying how awesome Yuki is don't make a good discussion.
*raises hand*
I've already stated she's the new Rei, just remanufactured from an off-planet alien factory.
But what makes me wonder is that why Yuki's outward personality is different from Asakura's, since they came from that same factory.
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 12:10
Well, I'll say that I utterly hate the idea that some of Yuki's bigger fans have of her actually being as powerful as, or even more powerful than, Haruhi herself is. The reason being that if Yuki is that powerful it completely undermines the entire idea behind the anime, in my mind.
Edit: I just noticed that Dakota touched on this as well, I think.
I like Nagato a lot - she's probably my favorite SOS Brigade member next to Haruhi herself - but I really hope that the novel/anime makers are a bit more judicious in how they handle her in the future.
Nagato is not more powerful than Haruhi...she's just a good counter to Haruhi, but only when Kyon is involved. Kyon is the ultimate counter for Haruhi and Yuki.
People thinks she is more powrful then Haruhi because Novel 4. She is, in a certain way. But probably because she knows of her powers.
Dakota, Yuki's personality is pretty different from Rei... But kinda only after Disappearance we knows that. I already explained why last page.
And, yeah, she needs less focus for the next novels. I like her, but Mikuru,and Haruhi deserve some space too.
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 12:31
People thinks she is more powrful then Haruhi because Novel 4.
If I remember correctly, Novel 4...
Specified that Nagato got her heavy-duty reality-altering powers - the ones that she used in order to create the Vanishment universe - by directly draining them from Haruhi.
Going by this, Nagato is an outstanding power-absorber, but her own innate powers are not equal to Haruhi's. Kind of like Dr. Doom vis a vis the Silver Surfer, for comic book fans familiar with one of their more famous showdowns.
That's how I like to see Nagato, anyway.
If I remember correctly, Novel 4...
Specified that Nagato got her heavy-duty reality-altering powers - the ones that she used in order to create the Vanishment universe - by directly draining them from Haruhi.
Going by this, Nagato is an outstanding power-absorber, but her own innate powers are not equal to Haruhi's. Kind of like Dr. Doom vis a vis the Silver Surfer, for comic book fans familiar with one of their more famous showdowns.
That's how I like to see Nagato, anyway.
Yup, that is true.
However, the power of stealing Haruhi's power is powerful enough. She is ultimatly more powerful because she can use Haruhi's powers too. Anyway, if I remember correctly, the IDE took good part of her powersafter that. So she is kinda less powerful now.
Actually, "her" powers aren't actually her, she just borrow then.
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 12:48
Yup, that is true.
However, the power of stealing Haruhi's power is powerful enough. She is ultimatly more powerful because she can use Haruhi's powers too. Anyway, if I remember correctly, the IDE took good part of her powersafter that. So she is kinda less powerful now.
Actually, "her" powers aren't actually her, she just borrow then.
Well, this is how I see it...
If Haruhi was aware of her powers, she'd conjure up a way to prevent others - including Nagato - from stealing them from her.
However, like you said, when you factor in Nagato's power-absorption abilities with Nagato's awareness of her powers with Haruhi's lack of awareness of her powers... the net effect is that Nagato is functionally more powerful than Haruhi is. At least, in a conscientious way. For example, I have my doubts that Haruhi could have saved Kyon from Ryoko Asakura - it probably required Nagato to do that.
Yeah, that was what I was saying, actually.
PP:
I was trying to explain why many Nagato fans think she is more powerful. They are right, in a certain POV. But not totally, because what you said.
ReneeBurossamu
2009-08-26, 13:59
... Nagato's not my favorite character, per se. But she's definitely ranked better than most characters in this series on my list. I'm not sure why, but the new season has make me like her a lot more.
If she wasn't in the Brigade, it would feel like something is missing.
Yup, that is true.
However, the power of stealing Haruhi's power is powerful enough. She is ultimatly more powerful because she can use Haruhi's powers too. Anyway, if I remember correctly, the IDE took good part of her powersafter that. So she is kinda less powerful now.
Actually, "her" powers aren't actually her, she just borrow then.
This is likely true, and might explain why the DITE still wants an observer watching Haruhi after the events of Disappearance.
I would think if Yuki successfully hax0red Haruhi's powers, this would also mean that they would be within the capability of the DITE to understand and, thus, they would've been able to ascend "auto-evolve" onto whatever comes next.
But, since things go back to status quo ante bellum this doesn't seem to be the case. It could be that Yuki didn't hax0r Haruhi's powers for herself. She may simply have used her present data manipulation abilities to trick Haruhi into rewriting the universe to Yuki's specs.
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 15:44
This is likely true, and might explain why the DITE still wants an observer watching Haruhi after the events of Disappearance.
I would think if Yuki successfully hax0red Haruhi's powers, this would also mean that they would be within the capability of the DITE to understand and, thus, they would've been able to ascend "auto-evolve" onto whatever comes next.
But, since things go back to status quo ante bellum this doesn't seem to be the case. It could be that Yuki didn't hax0r Haruhi's powers for herself. She may simply have used her present data manipulation abilities to trick Haruhi into rewriting the universe to Yuki's specs.
Oooooo.... really nice theory, GMT! I like it. :)
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-26, 16:49
... Can't we have ONE Nagato-related discussion without Volume 4 being brought up? :heh:
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 16:52
... Can't we have ONE Nagato-related discussion without Volume 4 being brought up? :heh:
... A Nagato fan that doesn't like Volume 4? I always thought that Volume 4 was considered to be Nagato's crowning achievement, power-wise at least.
... Can't we have ONE Nagato-related discussion without Volume 4 being brought up? :heh:
You can say spoiler if they are tage in this tread. The first post says so, at last.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-26, 17:01
I'd rather not get into my problems with the story itself, there will be plenty of time to do that when KyoAni gets around to animating it three years from now.
However, my problem now is that so far, the only things mentioned about Nagato are Vol4 and her similarities to Rei. It's as if no one cares about anything else. :heh:
hideki101
2009-08-26, 17:08
Well, that's weird. I was just browsing through this thread, and SELECT just came up on my 'player. Anyway, I want to know what exactly is up with Nagato during the later books, namely how the conflict with the Canopy Domain is affecting her. She's called out sick as far as we know.
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 17:08
I'd rather not get into my problems with the story itself, there will be plenty of time to do that when KyoAni gets around to animating it three years from now.
However, my problem now is that so far, the only things mentioned about Nagato are Vol4 and her similarities to Rei. It's as if no one cares about anything else. :heh:
Ah, I see. Ok, let's see if I can come up with some other things then...
1) She looks awesome as a witch!
2) She does deadpan humor pretty good actually.
3) I think that she can be very creative when she wants to be.
4) I think that she's totally fearless. One of the most fearless characters in fiction, probably.
5) I think that she feels a greater sense of loyalty towards Kyon than she does towards Haruhi... and that this distinguishes her from Mikuru and Koizumi.
I'll try to think of some more later.
How about Day of Sagitarius? It was the first time she definitively dysplayed a human traid, by being able to enjoy the game. Before that it was kinda hard to knows if she was just that robotic or not (her 'joke' in Lone Island' could ery well be just her tooking things literally). Also, I believe it was the first time she asked sothing to herself (be allowed to go to the Computer Club).
I believe it is one of the most important episodes for her.
kniteowl
2009-08-26, 19:36
Well over here http://stoptazmo.com/melancholy-suzumiya-haruhi/30917-nagato-yuki-shrine.html#post689859
me & my friends made up facts about Nagato, by using fanmade pics...
and Nagato would so own as a Ninja lol.
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/420/a343692d5a36a0fullbk5.jpg
TakariCritic
2009-08-26, 19:40
If I had any criticisms of Yuki, (purely to play devil's advocate) it would be that way too many stories focus on her. Yes, she's a wonderful character and deserves attention and development, but I feel like way too many story arcs focus on Yuki. Much like how Kyon vowed to stop depending on Yuki to help out, I think Nagaru should stop depending on Yuki to drive his stories.
Personally, I wouldn't mind a little focus on Koizumi. Yuki can fill up a season and a half of the anime, Koizumi can't even fill his own episode.
yezhanquan
2009-08-26, 20:11
It's a by-product of her being integral to the "cover-up". Without her, things will fall apart.
PrincessFrani
2009-08-26, 21:08
Well over here http://stoptazmo.com/melancholy-suzumiya-haruhi/30917-nagato-yuki-shrine.html#post689859
me & my friends made up facts about Nagato, by using fanmade pics...
and Nagato would so own as a Ninja lol.
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/420/a343692d5a36a0fullbk5.jpg
LOL! If there was such a show, it would 10,000x better than Naruto in my book!
Sister Princess
2009-08-26, 22:17
If I had any criticisms of Yuki, (purely to play devil's advocate) it would be that way too many stories focus on her. Yes, she's a wonderful character and deserves attention and development, but I feel like way too many story arcs focus on Yuki. Much like how Kyon vowed to stop depending on Yuki to help out, I think Nagaru should stop depending on Yuki to drive his stories.
Personally, I wouldn't mind a little focus on Koizumi. Yuki can fill up a season and a half of the anime, Koizumi can't even fill his own episode.
That's what Nagaru Tanigawa wanted. At least to my understanding.
(Once again a thread with Nagato Yuki has more posts than other characters)
kenjiharima
2009-08-26, 22:36
Yay! My favorite character in Haurhi!
I am a Nagato Yuki fan ever since Haruhi started, pretty much she's been my main focus character in the series ever since, she shined greatly in the Ryoko fight and has the most merchandise and character updates in all of the Haruhi cast.
yezhanquan
2009-08-26, 22:42
IMO, she is popular because there is just so much more to speculate about her, since she left so many things unsaid.
kenjiharima
2009-08-26, 23:11
But whenever she speaks that language of hers it's to fast and types extremely fast.
Also she has a unique way of walking. :heh:
If I had any criticisms of Yuki, (purely to play devil's advocate) it would be that way too many stories focus on her. Yes, she's a wonderful character and deserves attention and development, but I feel like way too many story arcs focus on Yuki. Much like how Kyon vowed to stop depending on Yuki to help out, I think Nagaru should stop depending on Yuki to drive his stories.
Personally, I wouldn't mind a little focus on Koizumi. Yuki can fill up a season and a half of the anime, Koizumi can't even fill his own episode.
I agree here. Half of the eventual season will be Yuki's, while poor Itsuki don't even have a chapter focused on him yet.
One of the problems is hr role in the brigade. She is the one who solve most problems that happens to then. Both Itsuki and Mikuru don't have any power, so they don't do much in chapters not focused on then. Yuki, by other side, is fundamental for the resolution of BLR and the basaball game (and this only whit anime exemples).
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-27, 02:44
... Some will argue that half of this season is Nagato's...
I don't disagree with then.
Personally, I wouldn't mind a little focus on Koizumi. Yuki can fill up a season and a half of the anime, Koizumi can't even fill his own episode.
You gotta keep in mind that the stories are being narrated through Kyon.
Kyon pretty much doesn't give a crap about Koizumi, so he really doesn't go into details about him.
Nagato takes the number one spot in trustworthiness in Kyon's heart. She was the first one to tell him the truth about herself and the first one to save him when his views on reality and normalcy fell apart.
Daniel Lind
2009-08-27, 05:47
Koizumi was set up in Melancholy in such a way that does not really allow him to participate in any other major plot, unless it involves Closed Spaces.
Yuki, on other hand, has a plenty of plot devices up her sleeve.
kenjiharima
2009-08-27, 09:12
Does anyone else in Haruhi got a spinoff manga like Yuki Nagato?
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-27, 09:16
Well... there is Churuya-san. :heh:
Wasn't Curuya-san a webcomic?
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-27, 09:29
Another four-panel parody manga, Nyorōn Churuya-san by Eretto (Utsura Uraraka), was originally a dōjinshi, starring a smoked cheese-loving, super deformed version of Tsuruya, published in three volumes (released on August 2006, February 2007, and October 2007) before beginning serialization in the magazine Comp Ace in November 2008.
Whether it was or wasn't, it's in Comp Ace now. :heh:
kenjiharima
2009-08-27, 11:30
Well... there is Churuya-san. :heh:
-_-....oh yeah I forgot.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3617/3297744465_7dd2f698de.jpg
http://domigan.wayfs.com/myspace/ChuruyaSeason2.jpg
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-27, 13:24
Damn it, Kyon! Why do you have to be so mean to Churuya... getting her hopes up like that, for shame. :heh:
But... argh... Are we gonna have to start a Kyon discussion in the Tsuruya thread to balance things out? :heh:
kenjiharima
2009-08-28, 01:06
Why didn't they chibi Nagato? But instead Ryoko? Hmm...Too much competition perhaps to Churuya-san. :3
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-28, 01:17
Because chibi Ryoko is always awesome. Besides, given Nagato's canonical lack of dialogue in most situations, she really wouldn't be as entertaining.
kenjiharima
2009-08-28, 09:21
Chibi Ryoko and Churuya-san look like sisters rather than classmates. Also less interaction with Ryoko and Chibi Ryoko...
Nyoron~~....
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-28, 09:25
Bah! Enough talk of Asakura and her diminutive counterparts! If we're really going to discuss Asakura, let it be the Yuki-chan one. :p
PrincessFrani
2009-08-28, 10:14
Bah! Enough talk of Asakura and her diminutive counterparts! If we're really going to discuss Asakura, let it be the Yuki-chan one. :p
If they actually make a Yuki-chan, the viewings are gonna go up fast. And I mean that in a good way.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-28, 10:29
The Yuki-chan manga is only on the second chapter, there really isn't enough material to animate yet. :heh:
quigonkenny
2009-08-29, 18:29
The Yuki-chan manga is only on the second chapter, there really isn't enough material to animate yet. :heh:
And we all know studios never air a show until there's enough material for a full run... ^_^
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-29, 19:16
KyoAni has done that? Really?
At any rate... am I the only one who finds it really odd to see Nagato walking around in the winter uniform without wearing a cardigan over it? :heh:
Archon_Wing
2009-08-29, 19:32
Ah poor Yuki. Like Itsuki and Mikuru, she is a pawn in whatever grand scheme her superiors have planned, but she definitely has it the worst off as she is forced to remain emotionless and without free will.
Yuki's job is thankless, as she keeps everyone in line and away from the verge of destruction. But she fights on, and what she thinks and feels remains a mystery that has intrigued many a fan like myself. Just how much free will can she exert? In any case, she is my favorite character in the show.
Archangel Roy
2009-08-30, 01:50
Hmmm....what to say about Yuki Nagato...
FREAKING AWESOME!~ :D
and i agree (although really late) She is an improvment of Rei.
By the way can anyone send me the link to the Yuki-chan manga?
OkamiNoKaze
2009-08-30, 01:52
Never much cared for Rei, but Yuki I liked pretty quick.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-30, 02:03
By the way can anyone send me the link to the Yuki-chan manga?
Consider it done.
Archangel Roy
2009-08-30, 02:10
Thanks and much appreciated!
I apologize for my signature. I'm going to make a new one one photoshop! :D
Archangel Roy
2009-08-30, 02:11
By the way...where does everyone read Volume 4?
By the way...where does everyone read Volume 4?
Google, learn it, love it, use it.
Archangel Roy
2009-08-30, 02:31
Lol, i meant for free xD
but okay im gunna buy it NAO!
Kaisos Erranon
2009-08-30, 03:35
Google "Baka-Tsuki".
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-30, 05:16
I apologize for my signature. I'm going to make a new one one photoshop! :D
... My problem was with the text part. Of course, you're free to the opinion, provided that's what it is and not just an indirect quote. :heh:
Ice Block
2009-08-31, 06:36
And to complete what I started on the other threads:
Here's Yuki's [in]famous Fantasy-Horror poem for the Literature Club's journal. Quoting from Baka-Tsuki (http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume8_Editor_in_ Chief%E2%98%85Straight_Ahead!):
『Untitled 1』 Nagato Yuki
I am a ghost, said the girl when we met about ｘｘｘｘ before.
When I asked for her name, "I do not have a name." was her answer. "Since I
do not have a name, I am a ghost. You are probably the same." the girl
continued.
That is correct. I am also a ghost. If a being is able to converse with
ghosts, then that being must also be a ghost. Like I am now.
"Well then, shall we go?"
She said, and I followed. The girl's steps were so light, she looked
completely alive. "Where will you go?" the girl asked me, as she stopped
moving her feet and turned around.
"You can go anywhere. Was there a place you wanted to go to?"
I was lost in thought for a moment. Where have I gotten to? What is this
place? Why am I here?
As I stood still, I couldn't help but gaze into the girl's dark eyes.
"Weren't you thinking of going to ｘｘｘｘ?"
The girl had discerned my answer. When I heard those words, I finally
understood what my own role was. Yes. I was on my way there. How could I
forget? For this important matter, I had a reason to live and exist.
It is something I must not forget.
"So, that's that, then."
The girl smiled happily. I nodded, and expressed my thanks to her.
"Good bye."
The girl disappeared, leaving me by myself. She had probably returned to her
place. And in the same way, I had to return to my place.
White things were falling from the sky. Numerous, tiny, fluttering, aqueous
crystals. They fell to the earth and vanished.
It was one of the wonders that filled time and space. In this world, such
wonders were common. I stood absolutely still. The passing of time had lost
its meaning.
Those wonders of bound cotton continued to fall, one after another.
This shall be my name.
And with that thought, I was a ghost no more.
『Untitled 2』 Nagato Yuki
Until then, I had never been by myself. I was one of many. I was a part of
the set.
My group was bound together like ice, eventually expanded like water, and
finally diffused like vapor.
And a single particle of that vapor, was me.
I was able to go anywhere. I went to various places, and saw various things.
But I did not learn anything. There was only the act of seeing, for that was
the only function allowed me.
For a long interval, I was like that. Time was pointless. All the phenomena
in that artificial universe held no significance.
But in time, I found meaning. Proof of my existence.
Matter attracts matter. This is the truth. I was drawn in, because it
possessed form.
Light, darkness, contradiction, and common sense. I had encountered, and
connected with each one. Those functions were not in me, but perhaps I might
not mind having them.
If I were allowed to, I would have them.
As I continue to wait, will those wonders keep on falling?
Those tiniest of wonders.
『Untitled 3』 Nagato Yuki
All that remained in the room was a black coffin. There was nothing else.
And on the coffin that was in the center of the dark room, sat a single man.
"Good day."
He said to me. He was smiling.
Good day.
I said to the man as well. I did not know what my expression was.
As I stood there, a white cloth alighted from behind the man. In the middle
of the darkness, the cloth was enveloped by a pale light.
"Pardon my lateness."
The white cloth said. Or rather, the person who was wearing the big, white
piece of cloth. Through holes cut out where the eyes would be, black pupils
were looking at me.
It seemed like the one inside was a girl. I could tell from her voice.
The man laughed in a low voice.
"The recital has not yet started."
The man did not move from above the coffin.
"There is time, still."
The recital.
I was remembering something. What was I going to present here? Quickly, now.
But I could not remember.
"There is time."
The man said. He was smiling at me. The apparition of the white girl danced
around happily.
"We will wait. Until you remember."
The girl said. I gazed at the black coffin.
There was only one thing; I remembered why I was here.
My place was within the coffin.
I had come from there, and I had come back here so I could return. But the
man was sitting on the coffin. As long as he doesn't leave, I cannot go in.
However, there was nothing in me to present. I wasn't qualified to join the
recital.
The man started singing in a low voice. Synchronizing with the white cloth's
dance.
As long as he doesn't leave, I cannot go in.
And of course, Kyon's commentary on the represented persons:
I answered, but the truth was, I felt like I was able to read into it on some level, somehow. I don't think the 『I』 from the story could be anyone but Nagato. But as for the other characters, the 『Ghost Girl』, the 『Man』, and the 『Apparition Girl』, it seemed like the ghost and the apparition are the same person, but somehow again, the man seemed to be Koizumi, and the girl gives a feeling like Asahina-san. Perhaps she had modeled the characters after people who were nearby at the moment. Haruhi and I may not have come out, but as far as the desire to make an appearance, I was not too self-conscious about it.
It has been said that this may not accurately depict who the characters in the poem are intended to represent, or they represent anyone at all. Though "I" would most likely represent Yuki, seeing as Yuki = snow -- that's what those aqueous crystals are supposed to be -- it makes one wonder exactly "how" she had adapted that name. What's also interesting is that this is supposed to be a Fantasy-Horror -- makes you wonder which elements in this Yuki considers fit to be called horror. So, what consensus was reached back then (and now) regarding this controversial poem?
And I just remembered again how encompassing the OP and ED of the 2006 run is, covering Endless Eight, Editor in Chief, Disappearance prologue...
Back in the year 2006, Yuki seemed boring and uninteresting as a character. Here in the year 2009, I feel that she is, weirdly, growing on me.
Perhaps 2009's Yuki looks more MOEish, or maybe it's because of the imminent "Season 2". Her subtle actions, emotionless facial expressions; these little details enhance her image as a mysterious yet dependable character.
Finally I understand the fanboyism over Yuki that permeated the Otaku's scene for 3 whole years. :D
freakonboard
2009-08-31, 12:39
This is old, just in case someone missed it.
5nvmPuHOUT0
Back in the year 2006, Yuki seemed boring and uninteresting as a character. Here in the year 2009, I feel that she is, weirdly, growing on me.
Perhaps 2009's Yuki looks more MOEish, or maybe it's because of the imminent "Season 2". Her subtle actions, emotionless facial expressions; these little details enhance her image as a mysterious yet dependable character.
Finally I understand the fanboyism over Yuki that permeated the Otaku's scene for 3 whole years. :D
Wait, you have this book as your sig but have never understanded why Yuki have so many fanboys? :heh:
I also don't really she is really so much different this season (beside the more moeish face). I can't realy see why someone who thinks her as uninteresting 3 years ago would find her more this year. Unless it is for the EE... And even that is not so much.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-01, 04:17
I don't know... hearing her weekly "This has happened ___ times" infodump was rather soothing.
And yes, I realize how horrible that makes me sound. I can't help it. :heh:
Back in the year 2006, Yuki seemed boring and uninteresting as a character. Here in the year 2009, I feel that she is, weirdly, growing on me.
Boring? How could you not have been won over? The Boredom episode? The epic Yuki vs Ryoko scene? Her awesome guitar solo? The Day of the Sagittarius?
And those are just the blatantly obvious Yuki-licious scenes.
Boring? How could you not have been won over? The Boredom episode? The epic Yuki vs Ryoko scene? Her awesome guitar solo? The Day of the Sagittarius?
And those are just the blatantly obvious Yuki-licious scenes.
To folks who find Yuki to be entirely uninteresting, I'd suspect that just makes her a walking Deus Ex Machina, whose sole apparent purpose is to sit in the background and read books until the the writers Haruhi writes the SOS-dan/Kyon into a corner and a solution needs to be had before the end of the episode (save episode arcs where the story demands that Kyon provide a solution. Which leads to things like E8. :heh:) This is solely going off the anime. The novels are far more Yuki-centric.
All of this, of course, completely ignores the fact that Yuki is a very subtle character, surrounded by people who are quite . . . out there. If anything Endless Eight really served to make Yuki more accessible to people, since here we have a series of episodes where she's not hauled out to magic the SOS-dan out of trouble in the last five minutes. She's suffering through it like everyone else. And moreso, since she remembers all five hundred years of the Epic Failure of Kyon. Where we can see that, past the Vulcan facade of stoicism, there are subtle and not-so-subtle hints that she's bored out of her computronium skull. That she's annoyed and disappointed in Kyon/Haruhi. She's upset that, this time, her duties prevent her from magicking the SOS-dan out of trouble.
To folks who find Yuki to be entirely uninteresting, I'd suspect that just makes her a walking Deus Ex Machina, whose sole apparent purpose is to sit in the background and read books until the the writers Haruhi writes the SOS-dan/Kyon into a corner and a solution needs to be had before the end of the episode (save episode arcs where the story demands that Kyon provide a solution. Which leads to things like E8. :heh:) This is solely going off the anime. The novels are far more Yuki-centric.
I agree in the old episodes she was just a waking Deus-ex-machina. Even Day of Sagitarious anime was not that good to show her emotions as did not explained she really did go to the Computer Clube when she felt like it after that.
Boring? How could you not have been won over? The Boredom episode? The epic Yuki vs Ryoko scene? Her awesome guitar solo? The Day of the Sagittarius?
And those are just the blatantly obvious Yuki-licious scenes.
I realised my blasphemy and hereby I repent :D
Guernsey
2009-09-01, 10:53
Does anyone know how to do that "Yuki speak" when she goes into her expositions? How many words could conjure up that kind of speech pattern?
CrowKenobi
2009-09-01, 11:10
Think Vulcan... try to imitate Mr. Spock. :heh:
Think Vulcan... try to imitate Mr. Spock. :heh:
Actually, given the torrent of technobabble that sometimes comes from that girl's mouth, the correct Star Trek character to think of would be Data.
Does anyone know how to do that "Yuki speak" when she goes into her expositions? How many words could conjure up that kind of speech pattern?
eh?..... Yeah, the Spock comparison is apt. I'm not sure I understand the last question. As many words as necessary?
How To Yuki:
1) Simply be a walking fountain of knowledge, but keep quiet until asked to speak.
2) Speak in monosyllables in normal conversation but when explaining something technical or complicated, use only complete sentences and bury your victim in complete and intensely accurate exposition.
When I was a kid in the late 60s, Spock was a role model for me (as was Scotty). I read the encyclopedias from A-Z, I read the freaking dictionary, I was a sponge for data. I took everything apart to see how it worked.
If you hear me in real life, I tend to be a bit level or flat in speaking tone. I speak almost entirely in complete sentences. I tend to be a bit of a walking wikipedia. I have an extensive science and engineering background. I type fast (a skill acquired when writing term papers the night before they were due on a Selectric typewriter - no word processors then).
All this made me an "alien" and a bit scary to my mostly blue-collar Texas relatives and fellow students :) They literally joked the aliens swapped me out when I was a baby because I was so weird to them.
So naturally, I'm a bit inclined to like Yuki -- and love the idea of being able to manipulate the data fabric of reality. I'm rather fond of the idea that the universe can be thought of as a giant data field. That's an actual field of study in cosmology and space physics for that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_physics
http://www.idsia.ch/~juergen/digitalphysics.html (http://www.idsia.ch/%7Ejuergen/digitalphysics.html)
Yuki is suppose to be speaking in ultra high fast SQL.
Oh, was it the SQL reality data manipulation "spells"/chants he was asking about? I thought it was just her prolific monologues on what is going on (like in the first season when she reveals what is going on, who she is, and what Haruhi is, to Kyon).
Archon_Wing
2009-09-01, 15:43
I always thought of Yuki to be more like a female variant of Data from Star Trek: The Next Generation, since she shares Data's (initial) obviousness to human communication and tendency to misunderstand any kind of metaphor, as well as lacking in emotion. And also to sprout tons of tons of technobabble, which Spock would usually be better at being coherent. But of course, this is all very similar to Spock too; all 3 had far more amazing abilities than the crew.
Jonbob0008
2009-09-02, 05:24
I hear a lot of people compare Yuki to Rei Ayanami, but I would agree that she has way more in common with Data and Spock. Actually, I think it would be awesome to see all of the SOS-dan member wearing Star Trek uniform (especially the ones with the skirts for the girls *growl*).
Archon_Wing
2009-09-02, 05:35
I hear a lot of people compare Yuki to Rei Ayanami, but I would agree that she has way more in common with Data and Spock. Actually, I think it would be awesome to see all of the SOS-dan member wearing Star Trek uniform (especially the ones with the skirts for the girls *growl*).
Whee for those miniskirts! ;)
But Yuki definitely has a lot in common with Rei too, as they look quite similar and are both treated as tools that don't have a sense of individuality.
And actually a while back, there was a discussion on making a Endless Eight parody with an episode of Trek that had a time loop. http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31298&page=28
Triple_R
2009-09-02, 05:45
Nagato is like a cross between Data and Spock.
She has Data's tendency towards lengthy and incredibly precise technical exposition... and she has Spock's degree of emoting (i.e. almost non-existent). It's kind of funny, but... Data emoted a lot more than Spock, and that's even pre-emotional chip. The only exception being one time when Kirk ultimately survived a death duel with Spock, much to Spock's pleasant surprise, and Spock (with this big Haruhi-esque smile on his face) grabbed Kirk's two shoulders and yelled "Jim!" with such happy excitement at the sight of his friend being alive. It was kind of neat to see the Vulcan lose his non-emotional exterior for a second, and show how important Kirk was to him.
Likewise, just as Kirk often seemed to be the only person that Spock really cares about, I get the sense that Kyon is the only person that Nagato really cares about.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-02, 05:58
Even Nagato's name is a reference to Rei. (The Ayanami and Nagato were both WWII battleships. Meanwhile, "rei" can mean "cold" and there's quite a few references to the fact that "yuki" means "snow," including one of Nagato's image songs.)
However, beyond the name, appearance and general role in the series, there really isn't much in common between the two of them.
Anyway, since we're throwing out male characters that Nagato is similar to, is it all right if I suggest Blues from the Rockman series?
Highly protective of the main character from their respective series.
A habit of rarely ever talking unless it's important.
"Issues" with their creators.
Independent nature compared to others of their kind. (Which ironically is the cause of said issues in both cases.)
A "villain" in at least one instance.
Always seems to show up at just the right moment.
Walking plot device the rest of the time.
I'm not entirely sure if I'm serious about this suggestion, mind you. :heh:
kniteowl
2009-09-02, 08:22
Even Nagato's name is a reference to Rei. (The Ayanami and Nagato were both WWII battleships. Meanwhile, "rei" can mean "cold" and there's quite a few references to the fact that "yuki" means "snow," including one of Nagato's image songs.)
how many times have I reed that... if it's 8 times... someones gonna suffer a fate worse then death 15532 times lol....
question
I can understand why Nagato is protective of Kyon but she does she like him, is it because of the memories she obtained from her future self (technically present self) from Bamboo leaf rhapsody or did she just naturally grow fond of him as Nagato spent more time with Kyon (eg help her apply for library card), or is it both in some kind of weird time loop.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-02, 08:58
I can understand why Nagato is protective of Kyon but she does she like him, is it because of the memories she obtained from her future self (technically present self) from Bamboo leaf rhapsody or did she just naturally grow fond of him as Nagato spent more time with Kyon (eg help her apply for library card), or is it both in some kind of weird time loop.
Library did most of it. That one gesture meant a lot to her, even if Kyon doesn't realize it.
Triple_R
2009-09-02, 09:11
Library did most of it. That one gesture meant a lot to her, even if Kyon doesn't realize it.
Agreed. It's the little, subtle things that really hit home for Nagato.
I'd point out again that the Ayanami was a destroyer, not a battleship.
Ayanami = roughly 2,000 tons. 6 x 127mm cannon. 9 x 610mm torpedo tubes. 38 knot. (Lost in action with American Battleship Washington in November 1942)
Nagato = upwards of 40,000 tons. 8 x 410mm cannon and 20 x 140mm cannon. 27 knots. (Survived the war. Destroyed in Atomic testing July 1946)
Triple_R
2009-09-02, 11:29
I'd point out again that the Ayanami was a destroyer, not a battleship.
Ayanami = roughly 2,000 tons. 6 x 127mm cannon. 9 x 610mm torpedo tubes. 38 knot. (Lost in action with American Battleship Washington in November 1942)
Nagato = upwards of 40,000 tons. 8 x 410mm cannon and 20 x 140mm cannon. 27 knots. (Survived the war. Destroyed in Atomic testing July 1946)
Nagato beats out Rei yet again! :D :heh:
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-02, 11:36
My mistake. :heh:
Archon_Wing
2009-09-02, 14:40
Nagato is like a cross between Data and Spock.
She has Data's tendency towards lengthy and incredibly precise technical exposition... and she has Spock's degree of emoting (i.e. almost non-existent). It's kind of funny, but... Data emoted a lot more than Spock, and that's even pre-emotional chip. The only exception being one time when Kirk ultimately survived a death duel with Spock, much to Spock's pleasant surprise, and Spock (with this big Haruhi-esque smile on his face) grabbed Kirk's two shoulders and yelled "Jim!" with such happy excitement at the sight of his friend being alive. It was kind of neat to see the Vulcan lose his non-emotional exterior for a second, and show how important Kirk was to him.
I was always thinking to myself, Kirk must have been like "That's it?? You could have asked sooner! We didn't need to kill each other!" After all, picking up ladies is Kirk's forte. :heh: But that was definitely a good episode that shows how powerful friendship can be. I wonder what Kyon would do for Yuki; would he be willing to give his life for someone who's sworn to protect him?
But thanks for the info on Spock. Most of my knowledge of Trek comes from the three spinoffs that aired when I was younger. I only watched some of the original series, and most of my knowledge of them comes from the movies they were in.
I await the Wrath of Ryoko.
SgtHydra
2009-09-02, 14:45
I was always thinking to myself, Kirk must have been like "That's it?? You could have asked sooner! We didn't need to kill each other!" After all, picking up ladies is Kirk's forte. :heh: But that was definitely a good episode that shows how powerful friendship can be. I wonder what Kyon would do for Yuki; would he be willing to give his life for someone who's sworn to protect him?
But thanks for the info on Spock. Most of my knowledge of Trek comes from the three spinoffs that aired when I was younger. I only watched some of the original series, and most of my knowledge of them comes from the movies they were in.
I await the Wrath of Ryoko.
I more specifically await Kyon's rendition of "KHHHHHHHAAAAAAN!"
Archon_Wing
2009-09-02, 15:09
Oh no, it's probably gonna have Sugita's choking voice that happens when Kyon is frustrated :heh:
quigonkenny
2009-09-03, 23:40
As long as we're going with the Star Trek/Haruhi comparisons, we might as well go all the way (TOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series), of course):
Kirk -- Haruhi. Duh.
Spock -- Yuki. Also duh.
McCoy -- Kyon. So right on so many levels it's a little scary.
Sulu -- Itsuki. Truly the "navigator" of the SOS-dan. Also George Takei... 'Nuff said.
Uhura -- Mikuru. Now that is what a woman is supposed to look like. And Mikuru ain't too shabby herself.
Scotty -- Tsuruya. "Ah'm givin' 'er all she's got, nyoro..."
Chekov -- Kunikida. Easily the youngest-looking of the bunch. Hope he doesn't end up as a sociopathic telepath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Bester_(Babylon_5))...
Random redshirt -- Taniguchi.
Think about it. Haruhi leans forward in the captain's chair making some crazy, over-the-top order. Kyon stands next to her grumbling about it. Yuki, sitting off in her own little area, looks up from staring into her scanner. Itsuki smiles as he turns to his console to carry out the order with a cheerful "Aye, Captain." Kunikida and Taniguchi sit and stand, at tactical and by the turbolift respectively, looking confused. And Mikuru sits with that thing in her ear, appearing flustered as she attempts to patch Tsuruya through to the bridge. Now, that's a Haruhi poster I'd actually pay for. Make it so.
Speaking of, anyone want to try their hand at Next Gen? Or DS9 or Voyager, even? (Mikuru as Seven of Nine is a given)
As long as we're going with the Star Trek/Haruhi comparisons, we might as well go all the way (TOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series), of course):
Kirk -- Haruhi. Duh.
Spock -- Yuki. Also duh.
McCoy -- Kyon. So right on so many levels it's a little scary.
Sulu -- Itsuki. Truly the "navigator" of the SOS-dan. Also George Takei... 'Nuff said.
Uhura -- Mikuru. Now that is what a woman is supposed to look like. And Mikuru ain't too shabby herself.
Scotty -- Tsuruya. "Ah'm givin' 'er all she's got, nyoro..."
Chekov -- Kunikida. Easily the youngest-looking of the bunch. Hope he doesn't end up as a sociopathic telepath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Bester_%28Babylon_5%29)...
Random redshirt -- Taniguchi.
Thanks, that image was quite amusing :)
As long as we're going with the Star Trek/Haruhi comparisons, we might as well go all the way (TOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series), of course):
Kirk -- Haruhi. Duh.
Spock -- Yuki. Also duh.
McCoy -- Kyon. So right on so many levels it's a little scary.
Sulu -- Itsuki. Truly the "navigator" of the SOS-dan. Also George Takei... 'Nuff said.
Uhura -- Mikuru. Now that is what a woman is supposed to look like. And Mikuru ain't too shabby herself.
Scotty -- Tsuruya. "Ah'm givin' 'er all she's got, nyoro..."
Chekov -- Kunikida. Easily the youngest-looking of the bunch. Hope he doesn't end up as a sociopathic telepath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Bester_(Babylon_5))...
Random redshirt -- Taniguchi.
Think about it. Haruhi leans forward in the captain's chair making some crazy, over-the-top order. Kyon stands next to her grumbling about it. Yuki, sitting off in her own little area, looks up from staring into her scanner. Itsuki smiles as he turns to his console to carry out the order with a cheerful "Aye, Captain." Kunikida and Taniguchi sit and stand, at tactical and by the turbolift respectively, looking confused. And Mikuru sits with that thing in her ear, appearing flustered as she attempts to patch Tsuruya through to the bridge. Now, that's a Haruhi poster I'd actually pay for. Make it so.
To use a quote from the wrong series, "Make it so".
How needs five fleets of 15,000 ships each if you have the SOS-dan's USS Enterprise?
Triple_R
2009-09-04, 05:53
As long as we're going with the Star Trek/Haruhi comparisons, we might as well go all the way (TOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series), of course):
Kirk -- Haruhi. Duh.
Haruhi Kirk: Never... again... will a movie... be so... totally awesome!!!... as this one... is!
Spock -- Yuki. Also duh.
Spock Nagato: Wanting Mikuru to shoot a beam out of her eye is highly illogical, Captain.
McCoy -- Kyon. So right on so many levels it's a little scary.
Kyon McCoy: Dammit, Haruhi! I'm a Doctor... not a cameraman!
Anyway, really loved your Star Trek: TOS/Haruhi mash-up here. It does indeed fit freakishly well. :heh:
Voyager:
Janeway -- Haruhi. Very duh.
Chakotay -- Koizumi. Second in command; part of a special organization; has unique visions, ideas, and dreams. ;)
Tuvok -- Yuki. Yuki will always work as the Vulcan.
The Holographic Doctor -- Kyon. The Doctor does a lot of narration on Voyager, and has a bit of a sharp sarcastic wit just as Kyon does. He also irritates easily.
Seven of Nine -- Yeah, Mikuru.
B'Ellana Torres -- Tsuruya is the only Haruhi female I could see working here.
Tom Paris -- Taniguchi. Soooo Taniguchi :heh:
Harry Kim -- Kunikida. Especially since Tom Paris is Taniguchi.
Kes -- Kimidori. Kes probably has the softest personality of the Voyager crew.
Neelix -- ...Okabe-sensei? Or maybe the Student Council President.
Seska -- Ryoko Asakura ;)
aegisofrime
2009-09-04, 11:01
Agreed. It's the little, subtle things that really hit home for Nagato.
My two cents here.
One thing I really love about Nagato is how to read her subtle expressions of emotions. And because if this, she's also probably the hardest character animate. One striking example is in
Where she opens the door after 3 years had passed, and that look on her face! That look that shows little but means so much!
Archon_Wing
2009-09-04, 19:08
Voyager:
Janeway -- Haruhi. Very duh.
Chakotay -- Koizumi. Second in command; part of a special organization; has unique visions, ideas, and dreams. ;)
Tuvok -- Yuki. Yuki will always work as the Vulcan.
The Holographic Doctor -- Kyon. The Doctor does a lot of narration on Voyager, and has a bit of a sharp sarcastic wit just as Kyon does. He also irritates easily.
Seven of Nine -- Yeah, Mikuru.
B'Ellana Torres -- Tsuruya is the only Haruhi female I could see working here.
Tom Paris -- Taniguchi. Soooo Taniguchi :heh:
Harry Kim -- Kunikida. Especially since Tom Paris is Taniguchi.
Kes -- Kimidori. Kes probably has the softest personality of the Voyager crew.
Neelix -- ...Okabe-sensei? Or maybe the Student Council President.
Seska -- Ryoko Asakura ;)
lol, that's a very nice one. I still think TNG has the best similarity since it does basically start off as "The Melancholy of Q" with the poor crew as his playthings, but that's a bit too disturbing to run the analogy especially since Q actually said if he had known Picard better, he would have appeared as a female. :D
But the Voyager comparisons are spot on! I'll add my view on it.
Haruhi- A highly competent and powerful person. She is the leader of the SOS-Dan dedicated to spreading the world with fun, and will let nothing hinder her goal. However, she is reckless and stubborn; she does not like opposition and is not above doing things like blackmail to people who dare oppose her, therefore the crew must work together to keep her from causing massive destruction. She is at the center of many a temporal anomaly. Sometimes, when she is not pleased with reality, she destroys the universe and makes a new one.
Janeway- A highly competent and powerful person. She is the Captain of the Starship Voyager dedicated to returning home, and will let nothing hinder her goal. However, she is reckless and stubborn; she does not like opposition and is not above doing things like torture to people who dare oppose her, therefore the group must work together to keep her from causing massive destruction. She is at the center of many a temporal anomaly. Sometimes, when she is not pleased with reality, she goes back in time, to make a new timeline.
Itsuki- A person who is brought into the SOS-dan and suddenly promoted above everyone else because Haruhi likes him better. Basically serves as Haruhi's second and command and has no real personality because of fear of what Haruhi may do. Ends up getting paired with Mikuru in their movie for no real reason except Haruhi's poor writing.
Chakotay- A person who is brought on Voyager and suddenly promoted above everyone else because Janeway likes him better. Has no personality, but unlike Itsuki, he really does have no personality. Ends up getting paired with Seven of Nine in their finale for no real reason except poor writing.
Yuki- As an Android, Yuki is an incredibly logical character. She helps defend the SOS-dan from hostile threats. May be suppressing murderous urges due to Endless Eight.
Tuvok- As a Vulcan, Tuvok is an incredibly logical character. He helps defend voyager from hostile threats. May be suppressing murderous urges due to the endless annoyance of Neelix
Kyon- He does not want to be here, but must be because nobody can do what he can. Originally, nobody gave him the time of day because he didn't have any powers, but his incredible sense of sarcasm and unwillingness to blindly follow order made him a distinct presence on the club. He begins to develop in personality by helping Mikuru.
The Doctor- He does not want to be here, but must be because nobody can do what he can. Originally, nobody gave him the time of day because he was a hologram, but his incredible sense of sarcasm and unwillingness to blindly follow order made him a distinct presence on the ship. He begins to develop in personality by helping Seven of Nine.
Mikuru-- An time traveler , she became an unwilling member of the SOS-dan due to Haruhi. She eventually adjusts and provides tons of fanservice in suggestive outfits. From her interactions from the group, she starts to regain her confidence.
Seven of Nine-- An ex-borg , she became an unwilling member of Voyager's crew due to Janeway. She eventually adjusts and provides tons of fanservice in suggestive outfits. From her interactions from the crew, she starts to regain her humanity.
Taniguchi- A cool, likable guy, he provides some sensible commentary on what seems to be a crazy world at times.
Tom Paris- A cool, likable guy, he provides some sensible commentary on what seems to be a crazy world at times.
Kunikida- He's just there. He is not gay with Taniguchi.
Harry Kim- He's just there. He is not gay with Tom Paris.
Ok, I'll just leave it at that. :heh:
Since when did this become the "Haruhi Trek" thread?
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-04, 19:17
Since people started comparing Nagato to Star Trek characters...
Triple_R
2009-09-04, 20:47
lol, that's a very nice one. I still think TNG has the best similarity since it does basically start off as "The Melancholy of Q" with the poor crew as his playthings, but that's a bit too disturbing to run the analogy especially since Q actually said if he had known Picard better, he would have appeared as a female. :D
LOL... that never occurred to me. The reason why I didn't do TNG is that...
1) Picard and Kyon are the two most famous facepalmers through out the entire internet. With a comparison like this one, they'd have to be one and the same. :heh:
2) I couldn't make Haruhi as someone working under Kyon Picard.
Never occurred to me to make Haruhi somebody outside the crew like Q.
... There's this one episode of Trek where Q gets his powers taken away, and he shows up on the Bridge of the Enterprise, naked (sent there by the Q Continuim). Picard looks at him in a stunned face, but can't take his eyes off of Q. Q makes this sly smile towards Picard (Q even licks out his tongue a bit, IIRC) and says "Red Alert...!". Now replace Picard with Kyon, and Q with Haruhi for this scene, and... :heh: :heh: :heh:
Haruhi/Kyon is quite a bit like Q/Picard. And after you have Haruhi/Kyon dealt with, the rest of the crew might be doable. I could definitely see Mikuru working as Beverly Crusher or Counselor Troi.
But the Voyager comparisons are spot on! I'll add my view on it.
I'm glad you liked them! Your write-ups supporting them further were great! :D
Anyway, to make this a bit about Nagato... if Nagato was Counselor Troi, and Kyon was Riker, I wonder how that would make Kogetsu feel? ;)
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-04, 20:52
I've pointed this out elsewhere: Whoever ends up as Riker would also have to be able to convincingly pull off David Xanatos. Despite my believing him to be an asshole, Kyon doesn't strike me as a Xanatos.
Triple_R
2009-09-04, 20:59
I've pointed this out elsewhere: Whoever ends up as Riker would also have to be able to convincingly pull off David Xanatos. Despite my believing him to be an asshole, Kyon doesn't strike me as a Xanatos.
No... Kyon's no Xanatos. Hard to imagine Xanatos snapping over Haruhi mistreating Mikuru. :heh:
Woah, comparing characters from two different universes :O
Fain, I'll do Halo :P
Master Chief (on crack) - Haruhi.
Cortana - Tempted to say Kyon, but Yuki probably is.
Sgt Johnson - Itsuki. Always has MC's back. :P
MC Mendez (dude that trained MC) - Kyon. I think he's/he'll be instrumental in Haruhi's emotional growth.
Archon_Wing
2009-09-05, 00:33
... There's this one episode of Trek where Q gets his powers taken away, and he shows up on the Bridge of the Enterprise, naked (sent there by the Q Continuim). Picard looks at him in a stunned face, but can't take his eyes off of Q. Q makes this sly smile towards Picard (Q even licks out his tongue a bit, IIRC) and says "Red Alert...!". Now replace Picard with Kyon, and Q with Haruhi for this scene, and... :heh: :heh: :heh:
I want that! :D Depowered neekid Haruhi still acting like herself. But there's probaly an even more disturbing scene where he wakes up in bed with him. >.<
Troi is actually probaly more like Itsuki though much less powerful :heh:
But since this topic is about Yuki, I felt necessary to crack a "fully functional" joke. Ok, time to run. ;)
OkamiNoKaze
2009-09-07, 22:48
Yuki looks and acts like an android, but is she really mechanical on the inside, kind of like a terminator? or fully organic?
also Mikuru as 7 of 9 is hilarious, and the comparison makes even more sense. though I always felt that the IDTE seemed sort of like the Borg collective to me, a little bit.
Apache Thunder
2009-09-07, 23:05
Yuki looks and acts like an android, but is she really mechanical on the inside, kind of like a terminator? or fully organic?
Judging from the fight scene between Yuki and Ryoko in the Anime, the amount of blood she emits would lead me to believe that most or all of her is organic. (and the blood is red. Not some weird color like maybe hydrolic fluid color or anything. So it's normal blood that you see)
Her actual consciousness is probably not in the 4 dimensions as we know it, so the body is a normal human girl for intensive purposes. She simply manipulates her body in the same way she does the environment. If she needs to move fast she changes her body to move faster. If she wanted to fly, she could modify her body mass or directly change the gravity around her. But when she isn't doing anything special, her body is just that of a normal girl. ;)
To further expand this, if you managed to "clone" Yuki's body through normal genetic science like nicking a piece of hair from her (that is, if she let you sample her DNA, would be hard to do this if she resisted ;) ), that Yuki clone would grow up to be a normal human because it doesn't have a trans-dimensional consciousness controlling it. ;)
If her consciousness was anything near that of a normal humen, she would have died from the first blow from Ryoko. But as you can see she doesn't really need her body to "exist".
How Ryoko was killed was not physical in nature. Her body literally dematerialized and what actually happened to her consciousness isn't known. Unless someone remembers the novels better then me and say for sure that she was actually "dead" for all intensive purposes. Also note that while her body was dematerializing she was able to still speak. In fact, she showed no (outward) signs of cognitive depletion as thus her speech was not slurred or distorted from the process. Which might show that she never actually "died". Just removed from the planet/galaxy/dimension. Who's to say she can't come back? Ya never know!
That's my theory anyway.
Triple_R
2009-09-07, 23:39
Judging from the fight scene between Yuki and Ryoko in the Anime, the amount of blood she emits would lead me to believe that most or all of her is organic. (and the blood is red. Not some weird color like maybe hydrolic fluid color or anything. So it's normal blood that you see)
Her actual consciousness is probably not in the 4 dimensions as we know it, so the body is a normal human girl for intensive purposes. She simply manipulates her body in the same way she does the environment. If she needs to move fast she changes her body to move faster. If she wanted to fly, she could modify her body mass or directly change the gravity around her. But when she isn't doing anything special, her body is just that of a normal girl. ;)
To further expand this, if you managed to "clone" Yuki's body through normal genetic science like nicking a piece of hair from her (that is, if she let you sample her DNA, would be hard to do this if she resisted ;) ), that Yuki clone would grow up to be a normal human because it doesn't have a trans-dimensional consciousness controlling it. ;)
If her consciousness was anything near that of a normal humen, she would have died from the first blow from Ryoko. But as you can see she doesn't really need her body to "exist".
How Ryoko was killed was not physical in nature. Her body literally dematerialized and what actually happened to her consciousness isn't known. Unless someone remembers the novels better then me and say for sure that she was actually "dead" for all intensive purposes. Also note that while her body was dematerializing she was able to still speak. In fact she showed no (outward) signs of cognitive depletion as thus her speech was not slurred or distorted from the process. Which might show that she never actually "died". Just removed from the planet/galaxy/dimension. Who's to say she can't come back? Ya never know!
That's my theory anyway.
Very nice thoughts!
I really like your approach to Yuki and Ryoko. It explains their often inexplicable nature quite nicely, I think.
night_sentinel
2009-09-08, 07:21
Wow, nice analysis Apache-san :)
This gives me an idea. We know that Yuki's body was created 3 years ago, when the explosion of data happened and Haruhi came to DITE's attention. But, it is possible that Yuki's consciousness already exists before her body was created? Or is it more likely that her consciousness was created along with the body like a customized OS to go with a new computer?
Searching the novels, the only clue I've found is the short story that Yuki wrote that might be or might not be an autobiography... But, if we assume that it is autobiographical then Yuki already existed and might be older than the Earth itself. We can also assume that perhaps this is the first time that Yuki-san took on a physical form and it might explain her lack of knowledge in areas such as emotions since she was always a passive observer in her entire existence.
Though the first part have me confused, it seemed that Yuki have a temporary amnesia of what she is doing on Earth. And the conversation also seemed to imply that it was Yuki's own will that she was on this place and not her superiors...
"Weren't you thinking of going to ｘｘｘｘ?"
The dark eyed girl could easily have said weren't you suppose to be in xxxx or ordered to go to xxxx? But, instead to my eternal puzzlement it used the verb "thinking" which implied that Yuki's consciousness have previously existed to think of going to this place and further implies that Yuki may actually want to be in this place? Maybe Yuki-san volunteered for the mission? If this is Yuki's first physical body as heavily implied by the second part, then what motivation would Yuki have to want to go to xxx? This might explain how Yuki could be independent from DITE and explain how the interface is different from one another since the consciousness controlling them is unique.
Of course it is entirely possible that latter is also true that Yuki is truly created 3 years ago by DITE - body and all. And the first part is when Yuki landed on Earth and loading her programs so she is confused and needed reminding on where to go.
Grrr....I'm just on the first few lines and this is giving me a headache.....
Apache Thunder
2009-09-08, 09:10
:D
Well as I see it, the DITE exists outside of time and space. So therefor the creation of Yuki is only 3 years when counted in our current plane of existance.
That is, 3 years ago she was created, but this could be very different in time span for her in her own plane of existence which was outside of time it self prior to her coming to earth. As you know, the DITE was unaffected by the E8 scandal. So 500+ years must not mean much to the DITE. (though Yuki would beg to differ. :p )
She didn't go into any detail into how she got created and such and it's possible that "data loss during transmission" might have occurred when she was trying to describe herself and the DITE to Kyon. So in fact what actually may have happened before she existed on earth might have been a bit complex for poor ol Kyon to understand. So she probably simplified a lot of what she said to her best ability. Which means she might have omitted certain details. ;)
Also don't forget that she can "synchronize" with data of her future self. So the story she wrote may in fact be something she got from her future self. This assumes she collected this data prior to the Disappearance arc as I recall from then on she no longer allowed her past self to synchronize with her.
But then again that short story she wrote may be something she cooked up during the 500+ years she spent in the time loop. I don't remember what she wrote to well. It's been at least 2 or more years since I finished reading the novels.
night_sentinel
2009-09-08, 11:40
:D Thx... for the insight ... I forgot that DITE has a non-linear concept of time and Yuki-san can also synchronize with her future and past selves whenever she wants to.This makes our linear concept of time nearly useless sigh and anyway Yuki is already the oldest by virtue of endless eight by 500 years and some more...
But, I'm really interested if the consciousness of Yuki and any other interface existing prior their bodies... I think this will give as an idea of what is the DITE. If Yuki-san does not have an existing consciousness and is created specifically for the mission, then most likely the DITE is a collective hive mind. This is supported by that she began to gain individuality by being for once separated from the collective and the second part of the short story wherein she stated that she is part of a set, a single molecule of water vapor.
But, if Yuki as a consciousness existed prior even the conception of the mission or the event. Then DITE must be more of like the internet which allows the separate computer like Yuki to connect to each other. This would explain why there are factions within DITE since it is made up of differing individuals and not one big consciousness. The individuals would also have differing abilities from one another like a different types of computer - pcs, mainframes and supercomputers. This would then further explain why the interfaces are different to each other and might possibly have different agendas concerning Haruhi and even differing powers and abilities from each other. This also explains Yuki's independent action to DITE allowing her even to subvert its order and delete it from existence kinda like a lone computer crashing the net.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-08, 11:46
... Sorry to go off subject, but... adding the "-san" honorific to a given name looks weird. :heh:
Apache Thunder
2009-09-08, 11:52
The DITE is sorta similer to a ant colony. Though without a queen and much more intelligent. The DITE might have a queen typish leader of sorts, but we don't know enough about the DITE's organization of power to really know. :p
... Sorry to go off subject, but... adding the "-san" honorific to a given name looks weird. :heh:
lol. Yes. I think it sounds weird with non Japanese names in general. Though I'm not sure if the Chinese and other Asian cultures other then the Japanese use that naming system. I don't know know enough about the culture to really say for sure. :p
Hmmm. The idea that the DITE is like the internet with seperate computers interfaces on one huge network would explain in some ways the use of SQL as the language of choice and that Ryoko had her link terminated/deleted. Also would this make the Canopy Domain a seperate network that sometimes gets into the main DITE Internet, or just a network that uses a different language, making it difficult for the two to understand each other at all, and the best thing they have is babblefish to translate?
Apache Thunder
2009-09-08, 15:22
The Canopy Domain is essentially a different species from that of the DITE and is separate. Perhaps a sub-species but that's the closes they are in relation.
And remember the DITE and other data entities don't use language. They only use language for the interfaces on earth...As Yuki explained, the DITE (and supposedly others) couldn't communicate with humans directly, because humans have no way of communicating information without language. So I don't think the entities would rely on language to communicate with each other because only humans use language. ;)
TakariCritic
2009-09-08, 20:14
On language, I remember how Yuki explained to Kyon that before, the DITE didn't even have NAMES for things, and is something they recently adopted.
quigonkenny
2009-09-09, 11:35
Yuki looks and acts like an android, but is she really mechanical on the inside, kind of like a terminator? or fully organic?
That line rolled around in my brain for a while and eventually congealed into this:
[BIKER BAR: INTERIOR: POV]
Our view is from the slightly red-tinted POV of SOMEONE who has just pushed open the door and entered the BIKER BAR, which is in full swing, with the jukebox loudly playing classic rock and patrons shouting harshly to each other over the din of the music and the other patrons' myriad conversations. As our SOMEONE moves around the room, and looks from patron to patron, a quickly scrolling litany of information is superimposed on SOMEONE's view of the scene, mostly in English, with graphical callouts describing different objects, persons, and pieces of clothing. As time goes on (no more than 15 seconds) the conversations gradually die away as we notice each of the patrons staring at this SOMEONE, most of the men (and some of the women) lasciviously so. Our view settles on one petite but tough-looking biker chick, tattoos covering her bare arms and a drunken look on her face. The graphical callouts focus on each article of her clothing and her boots, and on the keys hanging from her neck, comparing each to some internal database and coming back with a match. By this time every conversation in the bar has come to a stop as all eyes are focused on our intruder.
[BIKER BAR: INTERIOR]
Our view switches to an establishing shot of the fixated bar patrons, and as the camera pans over them, we finally see what our SOMEONE looks like. She is a petite girl with Asian features, auburn hair, and a large bust, and she is completely naked, from head to toe. She is also shivering, more from terror than temperature, but she manages to gather her courage, pulled from some internal reservoir of resignation, and as the last strains of the current song on the jukebox die away, closes her eyes with effort and nearly shouts the following in a reedy, nervous voice:
SOMEONE: [In polite Japanese] Um... I need your clothes, your boots, and your motorcycle!
Back on topic, I see Yuki and the various other humanoid interfaces as approximations of human personality housed mostly in the wherever that the Data Overmind exists in, but connected to the bodies that have been created for that purpose. If the Data Overmind is seen as one big computer program, with various subroutines each handling their own processes, the humanoid interfaces are nested subroutines within those subroutines, with the express purpose of interfacing with the organic inhabitants of Earth and Haruhi in particular. When Ryoko was cut off from her interface, it was like a firewall cuttting off access of her subroutine from the larger data manipulation powers of the Data Overmind, making it easy for Yuki to then remove Ryoko's interface itself, and effectively toss her "subroutine" in the Recycle Bin.
As for when Yuki was created, I believe that she has existed in some form or fashion since the Data Overmind first gained sentience. Same with all the other interfaces, Ryoko included. But data entity consciousness and human consciousness are two completely different things, and that human portion of her existence has only been around for the three years (now four—or 598, however you want to count it) since her interface was created. And she's spent most of that time sitting in her empty apartment or reading books. Ryoko, on the other hand, interacted readily with other human beings, and (likely due to prodigious use of synchonization with her future—and thus more experienced—selves) developed a more human-like personality. I kind of get the feeling she was around on Earth before Yuki was, maybe as a kind of scout, observing humanity for clues to the Data Overmind's desired evolution (something it likely does on a number of sentient-occupied worlds), but having to take a backup position to the more competent (but less experienced in human existence) Yuki when she was created.
Judging from the fight scene between Yuki and Ryoko in the Anime, the amount of blood she emits would lead me to believe that most or all of her is organic. (and the blood is red. Not some weird color like maybe hydrolic fluid color or anything. So it's normal blood that you see)
Automatic transmission fluid (a kind of hydraulic fluid, incidentally) is also red. As is cranberry juice. Just because Yuki is full of red fluid does not mean that it is blood. Given that she can manufacture nanomachines to inject into a delicious Mikuru on-demand would suggest that she's a human-shaped swarm of sufficiently-advanced nanotechnology. She may have red internal fluid for the simple fact that skin is not completely opaque, and that if she had, say green fluids, her skin would take on an unmistakably bizarre greenish tint.
Her actual consciousness is probably not in the 4 dimensions as we know it, so the body is a normal human girl for intensive purposes. She simply manipulates her body in the same way she does the environment. If she needs to move fast she changes her body to move faster. If she wanted to fly, she could modify her body mass or directly change the gravity around her. But when she isn't doing anything special, her body is just that of a normal girl. ;)
Are you saying that Yuki is a sort of zombie? :heh: The wounds she sustains in the fight with Ryoko are all of the sort that give you a few seconds of conscious action before the blood pressure in your brain goes to zero on the account that the shredded remains of your heart aren't pumping anymore, and your lungs and chest cavity have filled with blood.
How Ryoko was killed was not physical in nature. Her body literally dematerialized and what actually happened to her consciousness isn't known. Unless someone remembers the novels better then me and say for sure that she was actually "dead" for all intensive purposes. Also note that while her body was dematerializing she was able to still speak. In fact, she showed no (outward) signs of cognitive depletion as thus her speech was not slurred or distorted from the process. Which might show that she never actually "died". Just removed from the planet/galaxy/dimension. Who's to say she can't come back? Ya never know!
That's my theory anyway.
A minor nitpick, but it's "intents and purposes." Kyon speculates on the fate of Ryoko
When he learns that the DITE is comprised of several factions. He then remembers Ryoko and speculates that "she's up there, probably still arguing away."
Apache Thunder
2009-09-09, 14:10
Automatic transmission fluid (a kind of hydraulic fluid, incidentally) is also red. As is cranberry juice. Just because Yuki is full of red fluid does not mean that it is blood. Given that she can manufacture nanomachines to inject into a delicious Mikuru on-demand would suggest that she's a human-shaped swarm of sufficiently-advanced nanotechnology. She may have red internal fluid for the simple fact that skin is not completely opaque, and that if she had, say green fluids, her skin would take on an unmistakably bizarre greenish tint.
Nanomachines is something she probably created on the spot. As to my theory, she could have easily modified her teeth to include some form of nanomachine factory type gland or device. As I said, she could possibly modify her body to certain specs depending on the situation.
Are you saying that Yuki is a sort of zombie? :heh: The wounds she sustains in the fight with Ryoko are all of the sort that give you a few seconds of conscious action before the blood pressure in your brain goes to zero on the account that the shredded remains of your heart aren't pumping anymore, and your lungs and chest cavity have filled with blood.
Well I'm not saying she's a zombie. Zombies are usually depicted as walking corpses of sorts. Yuki is far from that. Her body might not be full organic, if this is the case, it wouldn't take the form of any android or machanical structure and most likely be that her body could be comprised entirely of nanomachines if she wasn't organic. Any physical injury she sustains wouldn't effect her ability to exist, because most likely her "brain" isn't organic.
But I believe their bodies are organic because it blends in better with normal humans. They don't want to stick out by setting off metal detectors at Airports every time they need to use a airplane or enter a government building. ;)
But this is beside the point. If their consciousness exists in a dimension beyond that of what we can perceive, then their interfaces are merely their way to interact with the environment in way that humans could perceive and understand. They could come to earth without a interface at all, but they wouldn't be able to communicate with humans and humans probably wouldn't even tell they were here at all if that was the case.
Yuki was able to remember all the E8 recursions. So it's clear her "brain" isn't anywhere close to that of a normal human one. This also adds to the theory that her actual consciousness exists out side of time and the 4 dimensions we know of. Because otherwise she would not have been able to remember it. It can be inferred by the way she shows boredem that she personally remembers the recursions and not simply the DITE sending the data of the recursions to her. Because if that was the case, she wouldn't show as much boredom in the E8 scandal.
This sorta can be compared to the Matrix movies. Think of the physical universe/Earth as the Matrix and the plane that the DITE exists in as the "real world". So that means their interfaces are merely avatars of their personality. This could also mean that their bodies are made of nothing but data. So what her "body" is actually made of is beyond human perception itself. It analogy fits pretty well actually. Because the DITE and other entities can change the environment in very similer ways that the Agents from the Matrix can. Only unlike the matrix, the DITE and others can't create things from from nothing. As Yuki said, they can't create data, only change existing data.
A minor nitpick, but it's "intents and purposes." Kyon speculates on the fate of Ryoko
Well my memory is a bit fuzzy on novel details and it has been awhile since I've seen the original 2006 episodes.
OkamiNoKaze
2009-09-09, 17:06
[BIKER BAR: INTERIOR: POV]
Our view is from the slightly red-tinted POV of SOMEONE who has just pushed open the door and entered the BIKER BAR, which is in full swing, with the jukebox loudly playing classic rock and patrons shouting harshly to each other over the din of the music and the other patrons' myriad conversations. As our SOMEONE moves around the room, and looks from patron to patron, a quickly scrolling litany of information is superimposed on SOMEONE's view of the scene, mostly in English, with graphical callouts describing different objects, persons, and pieces of clothing. As time goes on (no more than 15 seconds) the conversations gradually die away as we notice each of the patrons staring at this SOMEONE, most of the men (and some of the women) lasciviously so. Our view settles on one petite but tough-looking biker chick, tattoos covering her bare arms and a drunken look on her face. The graphical callouts focus on each article of her clothing and her boots, and on the keys hanging from her neck, comparing each to some internal database and coming back with a match. By this time every conversation in the bar has come to a stop as all eyes are focused on our intruder.
[BIKER BAR: INTERIOR]
Our view switches to an establishing shot of the fixated bar patrons, and as the camera pans over them, we finally see what our SOMEONE looks like. She is a petite girl with Asian features, auburn hair, and a large bust, and she is completely naked, from head to toe. She is also shivering, more from terror than temperature, but she manages to gather her courage, pulled from some internal reservoir of resignation, and as the last strains of the current song on the jukebox die away, closes her eyes with effort and nearly shouts the following in a reedy, nervous voice:
SOMEONE: [In polite Japanese] Um... I need your clothes, your boots, and your motorcycle!
That's awesome. I'd love to see a 4-koma of that or something, the only that would be more hilarious is the same scene with Mikuru stammering all the way.
Dr. Casey
2009-09-16, 18:09
Yuki: Kyon...
Kyon: Yes, Nagato?
Yuki: Could you put a nightlight in my room?
Kyon: Why?
Yuki: I do not know how to set one up myself... and... I am scared of the dark.
Kyon: ... sure thing, Nagato. Let's go.
It would be cute...but Yuki never calls Kyon "Kyon". All know instances have referred to him in the second person..."you".
Now I know she must call him something if she speaks of him to someone else. And considering that she calls everyone else by there full given name...she logically would do the same with Kyon.
Has she ever referred to anyone that doesn't have a full given name?
Has she ever referred to anyone that doesn't have a full given name?
I beleive not. Exactly because they don't have a first name and she can only speak of then by their full names. :p
Also, Yuki don't tal about unimportant people. What would she say about, dunno, Taniguchi?
worldruined
2009-09-16, 20:54
"Such an interesting person"? :meh:
freakonboard
2009-09-16, 22:36
It would be cute...but Yuki never calls Kyon "Kyon". All know instances have referred to him in the second person..."you".
Yep, Yuki always uses the word "anata" when talking to Kyon, while Haruhi just calls him "Kyon" and uses the word "anta" (which is more informal).
SgtHydra
2009-09-16, 22:41
"Such an interesting person"? :meh:
I searched high and low on Baka-Tsuki for that quote, but have yet to find it.
Volume and chapter #'s, plz.
Not that I'm saying you're lying. Oh, no. Not at all.
I've actually been looking for that quote for quite some time now in a very Captian Ahab-like fashion.
Yarr.
freakonboard
2009-09-16, 22:47
^Volume1 Chapter5
I searched high and low on Baka-Tsuki for that quote, but have yet to find it.
Volume and chapter #'s, plz.
Not that I'm saying you're lying. Oh, no. Not at all.
I've actually been looking for that quote for quite some time now in a very Captian Ahab-like fashion.
Yarr.
it was right after the fight with Asakura in volume one almost at the end of chapter 5, when Taniguchi walked in on Kyon and Yuki and started thinking about things that were not:heh:
I searched high and low on Baka-Tsuki for that quote, but have yet to find it.
Volume and chapter #'s, plz.
Not that I'm saying you're lying. Oh, no. Not at all.
I've actually been looking for that quote for quite some time now in a very Captian Ahab-like fashion.
Yarr.
How you can forget the Wawa wasuremono? :heh:
Yeah, Taniguchi was a bad exemple. Is not like she ever talk to him, or about him, after that.
night_sentinel
2009-09-20, 10:56
Hello guys,
Since we're talking about Yuki's speech pattern, I would like to propose that Yuki has never had lied.
Refuse to answer? yes.
Use words that needs the encyclopedia for clarifications? yes.
Confuse the hell out of Kyon and the readers? Hell yes.
But, lie? No, haven't happened yet, to my knowledge.
I think this might in a way tie with the way Yuki only calls Kyon the formal you. "Kyon" is after all not really Kyon's true name and Yuki only calls a person by his/her true name. This is further complicated by the novels hinting that Data Integrated Entity only has learned to use the concept of names very recently. They may use #13536 as substitute for names. Thus, Yuki may not have gotten the idea of nicknames. Add, Yuki's straightforward nature and you get a Yuki that will call Kyon not by his nickname as the all the other characters have done, but by his real name. Since, the author wants to remain Kyon's real name a secret, then, this the viable alternative.
Now, back on the topic, of Yuki not lying. I really can't remember any instance when she has ever lied. For example. when Kyon was being given the theory of the organization and the time travelers on Haruhi which vastly conflict with one another and he asked Yuki's opinion. Yuki did not take a side and even stated that her side's viewpoint is a theory too.
Another example is when she commented that the time-travelers way to err time travel cause too much noise or interference. Then later we learn the full name of that device. :)
Hello guys,
Since we're talking about Yuki's speech pattern, I would like to propose that Yuki has never had lied.
Refuse to answer? yes.
Use words that needs the encyclopedia for clarifications? yes.
Confuse the hell out of Kyon and the readers? Hell yes.
But, lie? No, haven't happened yet, to my knowledge.
I think this might in a way tie with the way Yuki only calls Kyon the formal you. "Kyon" is after all not really Kyon's true name and Yuki only calls a person by his/her true name. This is further complicated by the novels hinting that Data Integrated Entity only has learned to use the concept of names very recently. They may use #13536 as substitute for names. Thus, Yuki may not have gotten the idea of nicknames. Add, Yuki's straightforward nature and you get a Yuki that will call Kyon not by his nickname as the all the other characters have done, but by his real name. Since, the author wants to remain Kyon's real name a secret, then, this the viable alternative.
Now, back on the topic, of Yuki not lying. I really can't remember any instance when she has ever lied. For example. when Kyon was being given the theory of the organization and the time travelers on Haruhi which vastly conflict with one another and he asked Yuki's opinion. Yuki did not take a side and even stated that her side's viewpoint is a theory too.
Another example is when she commented that the time-travelers way to err time travel cause too much noise or interference. Then later we learn the full name of that device. :)
She did say Shamisen talking was ventriloquism.This is a very blatant lie.I don't remember she saying another, tough.
worldruined
2009-09-20, 11:55
Now, back on the topic, of Yuki not lying. I really can't remember any instance when she has ever lied.
"Nagato, have you seen Asahina-san's contact lens?"
"I haven't."
Nagato replied without flinching. I had a feeling she's lying.
Not really a "serious" lie, but a lie it is, since she took the contact.
She doesn't usually make a habit of lying, though (as far as we can tell...) and especially not about serious, urgent, or life-threatening matters.
CrowKenobi
2009-09-20, 19:00
Yuki is like Spock from "Wrath of Khan:" she didn't lie, she exaggerated. :heh:
AmyElizzabeth
2009-09-20, 19:04
Yuki only really somewhat 'lies' to Haruhi, if at all really.
For the sake of the mission...or when under orders...from Kyon (more or less).
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-20, 23:01
Except... she's lied to Kyon, as well. Unless you honestly believe she was okay with the whole situation, she lies to him during Endless Eight.
Could have also been orders/for the mission. Since we have very little knowledge of what really happened before loop 15,498....it could very well have been an order.
AmyElizzabeth
2009-09-21, 18:21
Except... she's lied to Kyon, as well. Unless you honestly believe she was okay with the whole situation, she lies to him during Endless Eight.
I don't believe she was okay with repeating everything over and over and over.
She even said (or what I could understand from her) is that she could/would/will lie to Kyon..but that's the only thing I could get from her speech on Sighs about her opinion.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-21, 18:29
That's what I'm getting at. As much as I like the girl, Nagato's not exactly the paragon of honesty. :heh:
Please don't turn me into a newt...
OkamiNoKaze
2009-09-21, 22:47
I still think in sighs, what she's meaning is that what Yuki and the data entity, have only a theory on things as well, that they could be wrong as well.
Triple_R
2009-09-21, 22:52
I still think in sighs, what she's meaning is that what Yuki and the data entity, have only a theory on things as well, that they could be wrong as well.
I agree with you. That's how I took it as well.
night_sentinel
2009-09-22, 06:44
Sorry about that guys... I don't know what I was thinking when I posted that or perhaps I'm just a bit tiny frustrated on what is actually fact or opinion in the Haruhi-verse that I latched on to Yuki being trustworthy, since if my sources are correct everybody in the SOS dan is currently lying to somebody else well except perhaps Haruhi and Kyon, since its his pov but he proves to be an unreliable narrator at times... sigh...
Mikuru- actively trying to manipulate the time line and in any case she doesn't give much information due to 'classified information'.
Itsuki- actively says that he is wearing a masks and it isn't his true personality.
Oh... well... that's just to open the discussion anyway... :D
Next topic, do you think Yuki was DITE's first choice for the one who will observe Haruhi? Why or why not?
In my opinion, Yuki was not the first choice of DITE, Ryoko is and Yuki is just to act as a background observer and supervise the situation. Yuki's recruitment in the SOS dan is a complete accident, Haruhi has just the luck to barge into a clubroom that Yuki is currently using. Evidence to this is the fact that Ryoko is in Haruhi's class and is the first to approach her. Evidence 2, would be Ryoko has more social skills than Yuki and would fit better as a normal human being.
Evidence against this would be the fact that DITE does not have a linear comprehension of time and might have known what will happen already.
freakonboard
2009-09-22, 07:15
Next topic, do you think Yuki was DITE's first choice for the one who will observe Haruhi? Why or why not?
In my opinion, Yuki was not the first choice of DITE, Ryoko is and Yuki is just to act as a background observer and supervise the situation. Yuki's recruitment in the SOS dan is a complete accident, Haruhi has just the luck to barge into a clubroom that Yuki is currently using. Evidence to this is the fact that Ryoko is in Haruhi's class and is the first to approach her. Evidence 2, would be Ryoko has more social skills than Yuki and would fit better as a normal human being.
Evidence against this would be the fact that DITE does not have a linear comprehension of time and might have known what will happen already.
At least Yuki already knew what would happen since 3 years before the series takes place.
Yes, I mean Yuki's synchronizing in BLR.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-22, 11:19
While I've argued in favor of your point before, night_sentinel, I do know of the flaws. First and foremost, as freakonboard pointed out, Nagato already knew that she'd end up with Haruhi, and I doubt 3YA Nagato would keep that bit of information to herself. Second, Asakura more or less backed off as soon as Kyon started his daily talks with Haruhi.
Judging from this, it can be implied that Asakura's purpose was simply to keep Haruhi occupied until Kyon finally started the chain of events that'd lead to Haruhi taking over the lit. club's room.
Next topic, do you think Yuki was DITE's first choice for the one who will observe Haruhi? Why or why not?
Yes. Haruhi is the "potential for auto-evolution." The DITE knows that she seeks weirdness and will probably inadvertently gather together that which she subconsciously desires the most. The DITE, therefore, created a situation which would foster this by making sure there'd be a free clubroom at North High that just happened to be run by a single, extremely eccentric individual.
In my opinion, Yuki was not the first choice of DITE, Ryoko is and Yuki is just to act as a background observer and supervise the situation. Yuki's recruitment in the SOS dan is a complete accident, Haruhi has just the luck to barge into a clubroom that Yuki is currently using. Evidence to this is the fact that Ryoko is in Haruhi's class and is the first to approach her. Evidence 2, would be Ryoko has more social skills than Yuki and would fit better as a normal human being.
Evidence against this would be the fact that DITE does not have a linear comprehension of time and might have known what will happen already.
Haruhi seeks out weird things. The DITE would likely have known this. Ryoko Asakura (unnaturally blue hair not withstanding) is (outwardly) pretty much the definition of "normal high school girl." Ryoko Asakura's purpose, then, is simply to keep an eye on Haruhi during 'normal' situations; while leaving Yuki to do the dangerous work.
AmyElizzabeth
2009-09-22, 16:31
Well, she ended up screwing up and being sent away.
Maybe. Then again, depending on how paranoid you are, she might've been under orders then too.
AmyElizzabeth
2009-09-22, 19:24
But Yuki said that "They are flaws in your program."
freakonboard
2009-09-22, 23:24
But Yuki said that "They are flaws in your program."
That's from official dub, right?
Here are translations of the same quote from Baka-Tsuki, a.f.k/Hitsuji and official sub, respectively.
"Your programs are too basic."
"Your individual programs were too weak."
"Each and every program has a fault."
That's from official dub, right?
Here are translations of the same quote from Baka-Tsuki, a.f.k/Hitsuji and official sub, respectively.
"Your programs are too basic."
"Your individual programs were too weak."
"Each and every program has a fault."
Good example of how translation style and choosing the way a character will speak is as important as the content.
AmyElizzabeth
2009-09-23, 16:31
Ah! I never even thought of looking at the novels....as they were the original :O
Either way, food for thought.
Given her actions later on in Disappearance, I think it can be discounted though.
AmyElizzabeth
2009-09-23, 21:28
I can't believe she knew it was going to happen, but didn't try to stop it from happening
Apache Thunder
2009-09-24, 00:25
I think the DITE, Yuki, and Ryoko all exit outside of time. Therefor the DITE and company can only know the future of the normal humans and creatures and the like.
I don't think they can know ahead of time what actions a data entity like Ryoko might take because she is outside of time and any action she would take would alter the time plane her interface resides on the instant she took said action.
So I believe Yuki/DITE did not know Ryoko was going to attack Kyon because her existance out side of time prevents them from predicting her actions on the normal time plane.
Think of it like this. Person A (kyon) lives on Plane A, Person B, C, and D (Yuki, Ryoko, and DITE) exist on Plane B. Anything that happens on Plane A can be known ahead of time by Persons B, C and D. but not by persons on Plane A. The same holds true on the other end of things. Persons B, C, and D can't predict each others actions in they're own plane. (Plane B). So her "decision" to attack kyon was made on Plane B, and carried out on Plane A. Since the origin of her "decision" occurred on Plane B, DITE could not have known untill she then tried to carry it out on Plane A. It was the instant that she lounged at Kyon was when DITE and company knew the situation. Before then they did not know.
.....That probably didn't make it any less confusing.
freakonboard
2009-09-24, 02:50
Haruhi seeks out weird things. The DITE would likely have known this. Ryoko Asakura (unnaturally blue hair not withstanding) is (outwardly) pretty much the definition of "normal high school girl." Ryoko Asakura's purpose, then, is simply to keep an eye on Haruhi during 'normal' situations; while leaving Yuki to do the dangerous work.
I think "perfect high school girl" should be more appropriate term.:heh:
But Yuki said that "They are flaws in your program."
Nagato and Asakura's fight could well have been staged for Kyon's benefit to ensure that Kyon would develop a rapport with Yuki. After all, the wounds Nagato suffered didn't do more than inconvenience her. And Asakura was killed in such a way that, conveniently, left no body.
Of course, Haruhi threw a wrench into the works by filling Yuki's memory with a sanity-stretching 500 years of junk data, which probably contributed heavily to
Disappearance: Where Yuki went on a rampage and remade the universe. Sort of like how the Spirit rover on Mars went crazy and stopped responding to ground commands for a while, a few weeks after it had landed on the planet. The reason? The rover's memory was too full with gathered science data, and program data from the year it spent in space cruising to Mars. I'm not saying that Yuki's memory management is as bad as Spirit's was, but it is plausible. Now wasn't this a refreshingly pointless tangent?
Of course, Haruhi threw a wrench into the works by filling Yuki's memory with a sanity-stretching 500 years of junk data, which probably contributed heavily to
Disappearance: Where Yuki went on a rampage and remade the universe. Sort of like how the Spirit rover on Mars went crazy and stopped responding to ground commands for a while, a few weeks after it had landed on the planet. The reason? The rover's memory was too full with gathered science data, and program data from the year it spent in space cruising to Mars. I'm not saying that Yuki's memory management is as bad as Spirit's was, but it is plausible. Now wasn't this a refreshingly pointless tangent?
Definitely a thought. That experience would be orders of magnitude more than enough to destroy anyone's sanity, its no coincidence that she took action not long afterwards.
And I like tangents, they are but the circumferences of even larger circles. ;)
AmyElizzabeth
2009-09-24, 18:33
I don't think Yuki did that because of Haruhi, but for Kyon and his comstant wish for a damn normal life (he coulden't even last 2 days without any of the Brigade)
I have a theory on how synchronization works, let's see how this applies.
Let's say that Yuki exist in some other dimension, with the IDSE, but is connected to her interface on Earth through some kind of trans dimensional link. However, Apache Thunder just put up a challenge for synchronization. That is, that they cannot see the future in the dimension that they exist on. Id this were to be true, then synchronization would seem impossible to anyone. However, what IF the links were to work like an internet dial up connection. For example, the interface is the computer, the dimesion where the interface's thoughts exist as well as the IDSE, is where you are dialing, and then from there it connects to the future version of the interface, and then transmit back the information to the interface.
this is my theory of how synchronization would work, but then we have to wonder. Wouldn't Asakura, then have know about what was going to happen? Well, i can think of only a few reasons to explain this.
1) she knew, but thought it was necessary for something to happen
2) she did not know b/c she couldn't use synchronization
3) she used synchronization, knew it was going to happen, but tryed to do it in some different way, but then this would only start a series of different time lines to pop up b/c every time she used synchronization, she knew she had to do something different.
now, you might be wondering why i just wrote this whole messed up theory, or not. i did it, because i had to get it out of my mind, so excuse me if this whole thing wasted your time.:heh:
Remember, time travel to the aliens means that the data arrives intact...not how it is moved. This could mean that the Yuki in the past, after synchronizaton, was the Yuki from three years in the future. This also means that it is possible that she's know all this the whole time. However it is also possible that the interfaces are set to return to default mode (or more accurately, last save point mode) after such incidents to reduce the problem of "noise" in time.
It also may be an emergency proceedure and only done when needed, thus other interfaces like Ryoko would not have used this ability because it was not an emergency. Yuki is more or less told her mission statement from some weird human and what she probably can tell is a time traveller, shortly after Yuki is "activated". Since this shouldn't be possible, and the human suggests the time traveller has taken him back in time (and he invoked the name of Haruhi), Yuki synchronizes to achieve clarity and maintain the mission objective (observe Haruhi...do not allow odd events to corrupt the observation of Haruhi). The removal of Kyon and Mikuru would upset the observation target, thus they must be put back into their proper place in time. THe Time Traveller's "noise" makes things difficult, but this is Yuki...she seems to be able to do just about anything...as long as it doesn't come into conflict with Haruhi/observation mission goals........for now.
AmyElizzabeth
2009-09-25, 19:52
Those were some really good theories.
I have nothing to top those off :)
quigonkenny
2009-09-26, 03:23
And I like tangents, they are but the circumferences of even infinitely larger circles. ;)
Corrected (somewhat), since by definition a tangent is a straight line.
Ryoko either never synched past the point of her battle with Yuki, or she did and decided to have the fight anyway for whatever reason (knows something we don't?). I get the feeling that she did synch, quite often, and that is why she was so much more human. As Ithekro suggested, that could make her consciousness effectively a lot older, enabling her to quickly get past the emotionally stunted "new" stage Yuki still finds herself in.
In answer to whether Yuki was the first choice for being "Haruhi's interface", I think the fact that she was created (Earth time) right after Haruhi's awakening would suggest not only that she was their choice, but that she was created with the express purpose of being their choice.
A tangent is a straight line touching at only one point of the cirumference of a circle perpendicular to the radius of said circle. :D
Corrected (somewhat), since by definition a tangent is a straight line.
In answer to whether Yuki was the first choice for being "Haruhi's interface", I think the fact that she was created (Earth time) right after Haruhi's awakening would suggest not only that she was their choice, but that she was created with the express purpose of being their choice.
That could make sense. One of the chief requirements of a good experimental apparatus is consistency, which she has in spades. That and minimal reactivity with the observational subject, which again she has.
If you think of it in chemistry terms, Ryoko is the reactant dumped in the beaker, and Yuki is the sensor recording the results.
Stormwhite
2009-09-27, 13:08
I don't think Yuki did that because of Haruhi, but for Kyon and his comstant wish for a damn normal life (he coulden't even last 2 days without any of the Brigade)
Personally, I think it is either of these two options.
1. She did it because she is in love with Kyon, thus she set up a universe without the SOS Brigade (Which he outwardly complains about all the time) and herself, who Kyon has repeatedly stated to be who he considers the most reliable of the SOS Brigade.
2. She did it because she knows about the upcoming choice for Kyon, and needs him to realize that he DOES want the SOS Brigade to still be around, running after Haruhi. If she hadn't done this, would he have refused the "Anti-SOS Brigade"?
The third option that I consider possible, is that it wasn't Yuki and it was the Sky Canopy Dominion.
I honestly don't think Yuki will turn against Kyon.
Of course I could be wrong. It happens a lot.
And couldn't Yuki's lack of emotion and outward personality be that she was the first they made? Asakura was so to speak, an 'upgrade', but was left as a subordinate due to emotions reducing efficiency and reliability?
quigonkenny
2009-09-27, 23:22
1. She did it because she is in love with Kyon, thus she set up a universe without the SOS Brigade (Which he outwardly complains about all the time) and herself, who Kyon has repeatedly stated to be who he considers the most reliable of the SOS Brigade.
2. She did it because she knows about the upcoming choice for Kyon, and needs him to realize that he DOES want the SOS Brigade to still be around, running after Haruhi. If she hadn't done this, would he have refused the "Anti-SOS Brigade"?
The third option that I consider possible, is that it wasn't Yuki and it was the Sky Canopy Dominion.
I honestly don't think Yuki will turn against Kyon.
Of course I could be wrong. It happens a lot.
#1 is what I've always assumed. We've always called it the Yukiverse, but I imagine internally Yuki called it the "Kyon Bootycallverse".
#2 I had never thought of, but it would be interesting should it happen that that was in her thinking. It would be a retcon, I believe, because at that point I don't think the Canopy Domain, and thus Yuki's impetus for doing what you suggest, existed in any real form, even to the author.
But your suggestion of the third option makes me think you haven't read the book closely enough. There's no doubt at all that Yuki did it. She freely admits it more than once.
Stormwhite
2009-09-28, 03:22
I consider it possible solely due to that the Sky Canopy Dominion are still a mystery as far as their powers go. They've already demonstrated they can alter reality, could they have hijacked Yuki? I don't consider it LIKELY, but possible? Yes.
Tbh, I'm not certain that Tanigawa has the plot fully planned out, considering how overdue Astonishment is.
Jonbob0008
2009-10-02, 08:55
To thoses who say that the Ryoko/Yuki fight was staged, I would say that a retcon would have to occur for me to buy that, since Tanigawa never meant to write more than Melancholy until it became a success.
Remember that this was before Yuki and Kyon were meant to develop anything close to chemistry, and the possibly of their ship didn't really exist until Disappearance. It more than likely that Tanigawa didn't intend for their ship to exist at that point, and that would ultimately make Ryoko nothing more than your friendly, neighborhood yandere villian who as ultimately acting on her own accord.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-10-02, 11:33
I'd say Disappearance pretty much sunk the ship before it ever left port. :heh:
quigonkenny
2009-10-02, 19:41
I consider it possible solely due to that the Sky Canopy Dominion are still a mystery as far as their powers go. They've already demonstrated they can alter reality, could they have hijacked Yuki? I don't consider it LIKELY, but possible? Yes.
Tbh, I'm not certain that Tanigawa has the plot fully planned out, considering how overdue Astonishment is.
I disagree. I don't care how popular your books are, unless you've proven you can spit out novels faster than Stephen King, no publisher, especially one as big as Kadokawa Shoten, is going to agree to publish, then announce, a direct sequel novel scheduled less than a year after the cliffhangered previous novel if they don't have at least a solid outline of what's going to happen. Kadokawa may not make a lot of sense, but they're not stupid. Either Kadokawa or Tanigawa decided mid-stream to go a different direction on the 10th novel and they've had one bitch of a rewrite, or Kadokawa decided they wanted to hold on to the more or less completed novel until some other event.
kenjiharima
2009-10-07, 10:32
Seems Nagato has another parody/spin off doujinshi.
http://sadpanda.us/images/57344-CE641G0.jpg
About Nagato and her 3 daughters gunning for Kyon. WTF?!
http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmidmaxheadroom.blog70.fc2.com%2Fblo g-entry-901.html&sl=ja&tl=en&history_state0=
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-10-07, 10:35
Well... at least the cover looks good. :heh:
kenjiharima
2009-10-07, 10:40
Iam a Yuria 100% Shiki fan also and Nagato is my favorite Haruhi character. So this is a win win doujin for me.
Wonder who are the 3 daughters? Ryoko? O_o
quigonkenny
2009-10-07, 12:52
Iam a Yuria 100% Shiki fan also and Nagato is my favorite Haruhi character. So this is a win win doujin for me.
Wonder who are the 3 daughters? Ryoko? O_o
Judging by the questionable translation given, I think the doujinshi is suggesting that the 3 Yuria sisters (Yuria, Juria, and Yu-rin) are the "daughters". Of course the original word may have been "musume", which while it often means "daughter", can often mean just "girl".
Guernsey
2009-10-07, 19:21
Judging by the questionable translation given, I think the doujinshi is suggesting that the 3 Yuria sisters (Yuria, Juria, and Yu-rin) are the "daughters". Of course the original word may have been "musume", which while it often means "daughter", can often mean just "girl".
Thank God. Otherwise it would feel awkward, Nagato having daughters at her "age".
kenjiharima
2009-10-08, 11:12
Iam just glad it's not H. Also they're androids they can physically look the same age even cloned humans.
Otaku Emperor
2009-10-14, 23:43
It's a Rei thread now, dammit. The reason that I don't like Nagato so much is because she is the new Rei. She's that someone who is so quiet, you can say anything to her and not have a responce (with two words or more).
And then she'll fuck you up in a fraction of a second.
Aw, how can you not like Nagato, she is adorable.
Whenever I see her, I feel like hugging her.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-10-15, 02:39
... I'd suggest you be careful about saying that sort of thing in the future... some Nagato fans are rather protective of her, after all, and might misinterpret your intentions.
Otaku Emperor
2009-10-15, 02:44
... I'd suggest you be careful about saying that sort of thing in the future... some Nagato fans are rather protective of her, after all, and might misinterpret your intentions.
Who me?
She does look cute and hugable though...
No mind Kogetsu, he is just going yandere for Yuki, it is pretty normal. Anyway you quoted a post from days ago to add nothing to the discussion. You can't discuss who someone should like or not.
To (re)start that discussion about "Yuki=Rei2", I believe that, while the are very similar, probably on purpose(similar names and appearance), they have distintive enough personality and a completely different role in the story and relationship with the protagonists. So, while similar in a way, they are different characters.
Saying they are the same is like saying Luffy(One Piece) is the same as Goku(Dragon Ball), just because the former was based on the latter.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-10-15, 04:03
No mind Kogetsu, he is just going yandere for Yuki, it is pretty normal.
I'd like to think I was rather reserved there. I didn't threaten him with a knife at all. :D
Saying they are the same is like saying Luffy(One Piece) is the same as Goku(Dragon Ball), just because the former was based on the latter.
The main difference there is that Luffy can get lost in the crowd of ridiculously powered characters that make up the One Piece cast, whereas Goku ended up being the entire focus of DB/Z.
I'd like to think I was rather reserved there. I didn't threaten him with a knife at all. :D
That is true. Defitevely more less agressive then other posts of your. :p
The main difference there is that Luffy can get lost in the crowd of ridiculously powered characters that make up the One Piece cast, whereas Goku ended up being the entire focus of DB/Z.
Yeah. Luffy is very similar to Goku (specially Goku from before the Z series), being the key difference their position in the world. Since the begining, Goku is one of the most poweful beings in the earth, even meeting people who are stronger, he quickly surpass them. Luffy, by the other side, while incredible powerful and able to get the attention of the top guys in the world, still is, after 500+ chapters, just one more in the crowd when near to the real powerful ones.
Similarly, Yuki share a lot with Rei, same thematic name (snow/cold battleship/destroyer) artificial beings, quiets, like the protagonist for a similar reason... However, they are also a lot different. Kyon respond to Yuki's feelings differently then Shinji to Rei's. Their general role in the story is completely different, Yuki is the walking Deus Ex-Machina tha solve poblens and Rei is the creepy girl who "tell" more about Shinji background. In a quick glance they are the same, but few who watch both series would agree with it.
(I actually never watched any EVA series, a shame, I know, I only read teh manga and watched the End of Evangelion. So, I might be mistaken about something I said)
From my understanding, Rei was suppose to be the creepy girl the audiance wasn't suppose to like....as we can see, that backfired.
Yuki, on the other hand, turned that around. I'm fairly sure we are meant to like her fairly soon after we mean her, even if she was more of less background and provide the first real background plot elements (I am an alien and Haruhi isn't a normal human). She quickly switches from what could be very creepy to being the girl that will defend Kyon...also has a few other moments that bring her forward from being "creepy" and make her Yuki. First is the tea scene before the first infodump. She just keeps pouring after he finishes drinking. In the anime, I noted she has really tiny hands...but then I have this things for formal ceremonies that involve food or drink (What that wasn't a tea ceremony, it was still interesting to watch for me). Then their trip to the library. Finally the whole Ryoko fight and the ending about the glasses.
While she was first classed as another Rei-clone...she's overshadowed Rei, I think.
Archon_Wing
2009-10-15, 23:14
The similarities between the two are pretty superficial. Rei never really went anywhere, character-wise.
Ok, near the end, but I really couldn't that that seriously
Yuki, however, is slowly evolving into something else as she interacts with Kyon.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-10-16, 05:58
Nagato pretty much started where Rei left off... It's not really a fair comparison, to be honest. :heh:
aegisofrime
2009-10-19, 08:18
While we are on Yuki/Rei comparisons, I hope you guys won't mind helping me to settle this argument I had with my friend.
Motoko Kusanagi vs Yuki Nagato. Who will win in a no-holds barred fight? I argue that Yuki operates on a totally different level from Motoko; She can manipulate space-time itself, hell if she wanted to she can turn Motoko into a block of wood. For some reason my friend refuses to accept this.
Mods, if this post is not suitable for this thread feel free to delete it.
Triple_R
2009-10-19, 08:22
While we are on Yuki/Rei comparisons, I hope you guys won't mind helping me to settle this argument I had with my friend.
Motoko Kusanagi vs Yuki Nagato. Who will win in a no-holds barred fight? I argue that Yuki operates on a totally different level from Motoko; She can manipulate space-time itself, hell if she wanted to she can turn Motoko into a block of wood. For some reason my friend refuses to accept this.
Mods, if this post is not suitable for this thread feel free to delete it.
I'd go with Nagato too... but saying she turn organic matter into a block of wood might be stretching it a bit. It's important to remember that what Nagato did in Novel 4 came from stealing Haruhi's powers... Nagato didn't do it from her own inherent power.
Still, Nagato should defeat Motoko due to a massive speed and damage soak advantage.
aegisofrime
2009-10-19, 08:25
Thanks for the reply :D As far as I can understand it, Nagato can manipulate pure matter but cannot create it out of nothing. A good example will be in The Disappearance where
She turns her spectacles into a syringe. (Or was it a gun?)
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-10-19, 08:28
Um... wood is organic matter, you know... also, how much of Kusanagi actually is organic? Isn't she a cyborg? :heh:
Kusanagi would probably win in an official bout...
Nagato would just sit there and read a book throughout the match.
Triple_R
2009-10-19, 08:33
Um... wood is organic matter, you know... also, how much of Kusanagi actually is organic? Isn't she a cyborg? :heh:
Frankly... I'd rather Nagato win by literally kicking ass. I like the idea of her KOing Motoko with spiraling jump kicks and slicing her opponent with Asakura-esque arms.
Maybe Nagato can turn Motoko into wood, but that's a less entertaining way of winning for me. ;)
aegisofrime
2009-10-19, 08:37
Frankly... I'd rather Nagato win by literally kicking ass. I like the idea of her KOing Motoko with spiraling jump kicks and slicing her opponent with Asakura-esque arms.
Maybe Nagato can turn Motoko into wood, but that's a less entertaining way of winning for me. ;)
It would be really awesome in Haruhi-Chan season 2 though, if there ever was one XD
CrowKenobi
2009-10-19, 08:46
To me, it would be in character for Yuki to be reading a book with one hand, and blocking all of Motoko's attacks with the other...
Things will get serious when Yuki is done reading... :p :heh:
While we are on Yuki/Rei comparisons, I hope you guys won't mind helping me to settle this argument I had with my friend.
Motoko Kusanagi vs Yuki Nagato. Who will win in a no-holds barred fight? I argue that Yuki operates on a totally different level from Motoko; She can manipulate space-time itself, hell if she wanted to she can turn Motoko into a block of wood. For some reason my friend refuses to accept this.
Mods, if this post is not suitable for this thread feel free to delete it.
You're talking about pitting a military cyborg and top-grade hacker from a dystopic world teetering on the edge of either technological Singularity or self-destruction via grey goo or Skynet versus an android teetering on the edge of emotion-induced insanity that can alter the very fabric of space-time itself, and was created by a fourteen billion year old entity that has existed since the beginning of time.
I like GiTS, but Deus Ex Motoko would be rather severely outclassed here. And Haruhi help her if she did anything that Yuki might see as even remotely threatening to Kyon . . .
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-10-19, 09:16
Honestly... while it might seem a bit biased coming from me, I truly believe the only beings capable of standing a chance against one of the Interfaces are either other Interfaces or gods.
Or Goku, because even death can't seem to stop him. :heh:
Honestly... while it might seem a bit biased coming from me, I truly believe the only beings capable of standing a chance against one of the Interfaces are either other Interfaces or gods.
Or Goku, because even death can't seem to stop him. :heh:
HAHAHA
You gotta keep in mind that Goku is stronger than the gods... so he should meet the qualifications you stated earlier.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-10-19, 09:27
Fair enough. :heh:
Oh, he'd also win if it was an eating competition.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-10-19, 09:42
That... is debatable. Judging from her eating capability in Lone Island Syndrome and her competitive nature shown in Endless Eight, Sigh and Day of Sagittarius, she might give him a run for his money.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/Calofisteri/Suzumiya%20Haruhi%20no%20Tomadoi%20-%20PS2/60.jpg
From the PS2 game.
Apache Thunder
2009-10-19, 18:48
I wonder if Yuki eats simply to "store data" so that she could use it at a future time? I doubt she actually needs food to live. But perhaps she eats so that she could absorb excess data to be used in a certain situation?
For all we know everything she eats gets converted into future furniture for her apartment. :p
But it's also possible she does it merely for recreational purposes. :p
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-10-19, 18:59
Probably that last one. Y'know, like Buffyverse vampires.
One needs a lot of stored (data)/energy if you want to recreate places in your appartment to entertain the tiny Ryoko and her living ballon friend.....
kniteowl
2009-10-20, 06:46
LOL
Page 11 of this thread is the most LOL I've ever reed since the debate about whether or not Nagato could procreate (have children) somewhere in the sub-forum.
I always got the feeling that if Nagato thought you a were a threat, she'd erase you from existence, or turn you in a chibi version of yourself as a toy to play with in her apartment where she's generally lonely and bored.
TakariCritic
2009-10-25, 08:35
But it's also possible she does it merely for recreational purposes. :p
Given her eating habits in Haruhi Theater and in Lone Island, I think it's safe to say the faster Yuki eats, the more she likes the meal. Yuki is a naturally fast eater, but with certain dishes you can tell she enjoys it more from the speed and quantity she consumes.
Also, a couple of the games have fun with this.
The only time Yuki eats slow is in Snow Mountain, when she was severed from the IDTE, and was attempting to create the escape code by herself. Although I'm sure she found Mikuru and Haruhi's sandwiches quite tasty, her mind was on other matters.
Jonbob0008
2009-10-26, 03:55
It should be noted that Yuki does have blood (as was made painfully evident during her battle with Asakura), so there's a chance that her life functions are a least somewhat similar to that of ordinary people. Perhaps she does need to eat once in a while. However, I'd be more surprised if she slept. I don't think it's ever mentioned that she really does.
Stormwhite
2009-10-26, 04:15
Yeah, I think in
Mikuru complained to Kyon about how Yuki was watching her while she slept
Huh.
Interesting, it kind of makes you wonder what she does, if anything. How sad would it be if she just sat at her little table all night staring at the walls until morning...
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-10-26, 12:22
I'm sure she can sleep, she just chooses not to.
*e*And I don't really see why Mikuru would complain. Honestly, I don't think I could feel any safer. :heh:
Well in all fairness, Mikuru is already scared of Nagato.
Stormwhite
2009-10-26, 12:55
I'm sure anyone would be creeped out if they
Woke up in the middle of the night with an alien unblinkingly staring at them. An alien quite capable of destroying them with a few phrases.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-10-26, 13:05
You forget that said alien is fiercely loyal to Kyon. Since he entrusted her to Nagato, Mikuru shouldn't be worried about the whole destruction thing. I'll conceed to the "staring is creepy" part, as that could be said of anyone doing it. :heh:
freakonboard
2009-10-26, 13:29
From an in-universe point of view, I think it makes sense why she's scared.
For Mikuru, Yuki is just like a docile lion or something along the lines of that.
Stormwhite
2009-10-26, 14:01
Yeah I know that
Mikuru probably knows that, but she's fairly perceptive, and if you feel that someone with that kind of power is jealous of you, you're GOING to be subconsciously VERY scared.
TakariCritic
2009-10-26, 16:12
Speaking of Novel 7, I was actually quite pleased to see those two come to an understanding of one another. After all, since we're confined by Kyon's POV, it's not uncommon to overlook how Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi feel about each other.
And even though Mikuru is scared of Yuki, she still shows compassion towards her when Kyon asks her to come to the library only to ditch her there to run off with Mikuru. When Mikuru made Kyon apologise, he told Yuki that Mikuru was the one who wanted him to apologize, to which she replied "I see..." TWICE
Stormwhite
2009-10-26, 17:14
True, but that's just Mikuru(small)'s personality imho, she's naturally compassionate towards people, even people she doesn't necessarily like.
True, but that's just Mikuru(small)'s personality imho, she's naturally compassionate towards people, even people she doesn't necessarily like.
I don't know, when she demonstred being compassinated towards anyone else?
Not saying you are wrong, but I interpreted the same way as Takari. Also, I don't remember well, but I am pretty sure she said something friendly about Yuki just after refusing stay at her home
aegisofrime
2009-10-28, 13:01
Wow, Kyon seems like an absolute jackass here in his treatment of Yuki.
Ricky Controversy
2009-10-28, 13:54
I've never been able to wrap my head around why people insist that Kyon 'is a jackass' towards Yuki. I feel like the view probably originates from difficulties grasping the nature of Kyon and Yuki's relationship. Their trust in each other is implicit: both of them know how the other feels about the bond and acknowledge it internally, so they don't have a need for overt gestures or even covert gestures of the sort that Haruhi's tsundere qualities lead to in Kyon's relationship with her.
Additionally, I think that as obvious as Yuki's feelings for Kyon are, she, like he, is constantly reminded by the events of the story that they have a job to do. Kyon enlisting her aid most often is the obvious choice as he trusts her more than anyone, knows that she is capable and patient, and most importantly: won't ask too many questions. It seems people often forget how frequently Kyon's under the gun, and the whole Michiru situation where he 'abandons' Yuki at the library was a matter of having the one partner he knew he could trust to cover for him while not intruding on the things he had to do. I have to believe Yuki understands this, and Kyon's making a point of saying Mikuru (Michiru) told him to apologize to her was both to say A) Look, she's compassionate towards you and B) I know you understand that I'm doing what I have to, I'm not insulting our bond of trust by apologizing to you for something you wouldn't want me to.
So what if Kyon doesn't make frequent big, obvious gestures of thanks to Yuki? He certainly thinks about finding some way to repay his debt to her a lot, but he's also realistic about the things he can and cannot do versus the power of an alien robot data goddess. That being said, when in Disappearance he finally finds a way to do something major for Yuki: i.e. blackmailing the Entity, he doesn't hesitate to do so in grand fashion.
As far as I'm concerned, Kyon and Yuki understand each other and the situation more than well enough for this to be sufficient and then some.
DmitryEV
2009-10-28, 16:00
Yuki will defends Kyon while Data Overmind needs in him as key for Haruhi, but what will be when Data Overmind reach it's goals?
I've never been able to wrap my head around why people insist that Kyon 'is a jackass' towards Yuki. I feel like the view probably originates from difficulties grasping the nature of Kyon and Yuki's relationship. Their trust in each other is implicit: both of them know how the other feels about the bond and acknowledge it internally, so they don't have a need for overt gestures or even covert gestures of the sort that Haruhi's tsundere qualities lead to in Kyon's relationship with her.
Additionally, I think that as obvious as Yuki's feelings for Kyon are, she, like he, is constantly reminded by the events of the story that they have a job to do. Kyon enlisting her aid most often is the obvious choice as he trusts her more than anyone, knows that she is capable and patient, and most importantly: won't ask too many questions. It seems people often forget how frequently Kyon's under the gun, and the whole Michiru situation where he 'abandons' Yuki at the library was a matter of having the one partner he knew he could trust to cover for him while not intruding on the things he had to do. I have to believe Yuki understands this, and Kyon's making a point of saying Mikuru (Michiru) told him to apologize to her was both to say A) Look, she's compassionate towards you and B) I know you understand that I'm doing what I have to, I'm not insulting our bond of trust by apologizing to you for something you wouldn't want me to.
So what if Kyon doesn't make frequent big, obvious gestures of thanks to Yuki? He certainly thinks about finding some way to repay his debt to her a lot, but he's also realistic about the things he can and cannot do versus the power of an alien robot data goddess. That being said, when in Disappearance he finally finds a way to do something major for Yuki: i.e. blackmailing the Entity, he doesn't hesitate to do so in grand fashion.
As far as I'm concerned, Kyon and Yuki understand each other and the situation more than well enough for this to be sufficient and then some.
I partially agree with you. I agree with the major message, Kyon does care a lot for Yuki and have demonstred it. More then once.
However, his behavior in Vol.7 wasn't that nice.
I agree Yuki understood quickly the situation and fogives him. I also agree Kyon had the rope around his neck and have to act quickly. Really, asking her what he asked was the only thing he could have done.
He failed, however, in explaning better things to Yuki. Sure, he couldn't give details, however, the way he asked, it seemed as he asking her for a date. Think on it, he asked her to make then go out alone at the meeting. While we knows what he was wanting, Yuki did not, at last no at first. I am sure she understood after, but, even if was for a short momment, she was pretty desiluded. That is why Mikuru made Kyon apologises, Yuki deserved that.
I agree, however, is not so much a big deal as some (specially Kogetsu) makes appear to be, but isn't something to be ignored either.
Archangel Roy
2009-10-29, 03:12
this book seven sounds interesting. i should read it once i have finished with the earlier volumes
Jonbob0008
2009-10-29, 04:03
I would like to point out to those who discussed earlier Mikuru's fear of Yuki that we do not know what role the Human Interfaces played in shaping the events of the future. In Disappearance...
Adult Mikuru was also very fearful of Yuki, even though the adult version of Mikuru is someone who comes off as much more confident and capable. This leads me to believe that something happened in the future...Something bad...and it involved the interfaces. That is why I believe Mikuru is fearful of Yuki.
aegisofrime
2009-10-29, 07:29
I've never been able to wrap my head around why people insist that Kyon 'is a jackass' towards Yuki..
Ok, to be fair I have not read book 7 yet. However curiosity got the better of me, so I opened the spoiler tabs. Kudos to all who posted for managing to get the idea across without actually spoiling the story.
Personally, if I were Kyon I will be far nicer to Yuki, after what she has done for me. Maybe nice enough that Kogetsu might want to use that knife... :D
I would like to point out to those who discussed earlier Mikuru's fear of Yuki that we do not know what role the Human Interfaces played in shaping the events of the future. In Disappearance...
Adult Mikuru was also very fearful of Yuki, even though the adult version of Mikuru is someone who comes off as much more confident and capable. This leads me to believe that something happened in the future...Something bad...and it involved the interfaces. That is why I believe Mikuru is fearful of Yuki.
Or maybe she is just afraid of the Near-Omnipotent Alien. Who won't be?
At first I could see that. But the fact that that fear seems to continue throughout the series, and even into the elder Mikuru's time, seems to indicate there's a concrete reason for it. IE "they burned Chicago to the ground back in '22" or something similar.
quigonkenny
2009-10-30, 00:36
Or maybe she is just afraid of the Near-Omnipotent Alien. Who won't be?
^ This, but there's more to it.
We have seen three "organizations" in the Haruhi series (let's ignore the "anti" organizations from SMS and Volumes 7 and 9 for now). We've got Yuki's nigh-omnipotent Data Overmind and the rest of its similarly powered Humanoid Interfaces. We've got Mikuru's people from the future, with all the advances in technology and understanding of the physical (and metaphysical) world that that implies (not to mention specific knowledge of certain future events). And we've got the Haruhi equivalent of the X-Men, Itsuki's Organization (Agency, etc.), whose knowledge of the other two groups is surprisingly considerable.
Now think about how each group would view the others. Yuki's group is not going to pay the others much attention. She's already criticized the Time Travelers' core technology, and neither the powers nor the information gathering of the Espers come close to her own.
Itsuki's fellow espers have a surprising grasp of the abilities and origins of the other two groups, and are certainly aware that in sheer power (Data Overmind) and technology (both) their group is severely lacking, but they're still humans of this era, with a modern understanding of the world. Kyon similarly has an idea of Yuki's and Mikuru's powers and abilities—better, honestly, than that of the Organization—but nothing concrete to compare it to. And of course Haruhi and the rest of the humans are clueless.
Mikuru and her Time Travelers, however, with their greater knowledge of things in general and the years and years more of experience with knowledge of the Data Overmind, don't have to speculate at the vast powers of Yuki or the rest of the Overmind. They very likely know. And that knowledge scares the bejeezus out of Mikuru(both).
Also, should Itsuki or one of the other espers do the wrong thing around Yuki or Kimidori (much less a hypothetical resurrected Ryoko) and get the "turned to sparklies" treatment (or an errant knife), it would suck, but it wouldn't be a massive loss in their grand scheme of things. Mikuru, on the other hand, has things she needs to do, and a much more tenuous position. She gets vaped, or sent back home, or even interfered with to a point—three things the Interfaces wouldn't have to put any real effort into—and not only is she personally screwed, but there very likely is no longer a future for her to worry about. Or at least not one that's hers anymore.
I hadn't thought of that. The first two, yes. And obviously no young Mikuru= no elder Mikuru.
But that is true, this can't be the last of the tweaking that she'll need to do in order for her past to play out within spec. Which brings up a question I've been kicking around: Haruhi invented time travel, or at least the theoretical underpinnings, so its natural to assume that she is Mikuru's default choice to retain power. But for the sake of argument, what if she isn't? Is it reasonable to suggest that after the initial conditions for their creation have been set, that the time travelers might prefer someone who is significantly less likely to destroy the world next Tuesday?
SgtHydra
2009-10-30, 12:35
I hadn't thought of that. The first two, yes. And obviously no young Mikuru= no elder Mikuru.
But that is true, this can't be the last of the tweaking that she'll need to do in order for her past to play out within spec. Which brings up a question I've been kicking around: Haruhi invented time travel, or at least the theoretical underpinnings, so its natural to assume that she is Mikuru's default choice to retain power. But for the sake of argument, what if she isn't? Is it reasonable to suggest that after the initial conditions for their creation have been set, that the time travelers might prefer someone who is significantly less likely to destroy the world next Tuesday?
I'm sure they'd love to do that, but unfortunately the time travelers have pretty clear rules about messing around with the past: everything has to happen EXACTLY how it originally happened, regardless of whether or not history records it. Whatever happened in the past must continue to happen with each loop of the time travel.
This isn't so much an exact answer to your question, but it is what it is. The time travelers are, basically, actors reading a script. Sure, they is some improv here and there and Mikuru makes a mistake sometimes or mumbles about something she probably shouldn't, but this may very well be predetermined events that occur each and every time.
But then this thread is about Nagato, so let's get back to her.
Here is a question for those smarter than I: Why are all known Humanoid Interfaces female?
Ricky Controversy
2009-10-30, 13:09
Here is a question for those smarter than I: Why are all known Humanoid Interfaces female?
Well, I doubt I'm any smarter than yourself, but I'll take a pass at it. Some stupid conjectures on my part:
-One possible explanation is that the Entity decided to base its interfaces on the most genetically homogenous form of humanity, the 'base form', and it's reasonably popular in genetics these days to say that the female form (XX chromosomes) is that form.
-Perhaps the Entity sees the female as the 'essential' human form due to the female body's central role in the creation of life, and chose on that basis?
-Maybe because Haruhi's subconscious god-self thought it'd make for more interest aliens if, instead of warrior males, they were all elegantly beautiful data-goddesses. Think about it, not only are they all female, but they all have a sort of refined beauty about them.
-On this same tack, given that the Entity is shown to have opinions, perhaps it feels that the maturing female form is the most elegant? It's a common concept in Science Fiction that sufficiently advanced races still appreciate elegance and beauty in less evolved spheres of existence, and like to model and understand those concepts.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-10-30, 13:41
Just because all known Interfaces are female does not automatically mean all Interfaces are female. >_>
We only see female ones because female characters sell more merchandise.
Ricky Controversy
2009-10-30, 14:02
Just because all known Interfaces are female does not automatically mean all Interfaces are female. >_>
Do you really think that given...
We only see female ones because female characters sell more merchandise.
Anything else would be the case? XD
I'm just working backwards from that to theorize some canon explanations. Unless...oh my God. The aspect of the Entity in charge of designing Interfaces is actually also the series Meta-Guy, Kyon, which would give him awareness of the marketing effects of making all the Interfaces female. It also explains why Yuki follows his orders so unquestioningly. AHHHHH!
Kaisos Erranon
2009-10-30, 15:33
Again, it doesn't mean there aren't male interfaces, just that Kyon haven't seen any.
Or has he? :heh: Hell, anyone he knows could be an interface without him realizing it, given how well Kimidori and Ryoko are able to fit into society. Kyon never suspected a damn thing when he first met either of them. (Well, he suspected that something was up with Kimidori, but not what that something was.)
Taniguchi could be an Interface for all we know. He's been in the same class as Haruhi for years...
And yes, I do realize this makes the Interfaces sound like Cylons.
Ricky Controversy
2009-10-30, 15:43
again, it doesn't mean there aren't male interfaces, just that kyon haven't seen any.
Or has he? :heh: Hell, anyone he knows could be an interface without him realizing it, given how well kimidori and ryoko are able to fit into society. Kyon never suspected a damn thing when he first met either of them. (well, he suspected that something was up with kimidori, but not what that something was.)
taniguchi could be an interface for all we know. He's been in the same class as haruhi for years...
And yes, i do realize this makes the interfaces sound like cylons.
Actually, I'm thinking more about the Matrix. Taniguchi as Agent Smith = Worst Thing Ever. Also, revealing Kyon's real name will be part of the process of him becoming a digital Messiah.
"Wa-wa-wasuremono, Mr. Kyon...you look surprised to see me...again."
Kaisos Erranon
2009-10-30, 15:47
Except that, you know, the Agents physically take over the bodies of humans jacked into the System whereas Cylons hide amongst humans, and, in fact, are often programmed to believe they are human.
Ricky Controversy
2009-10-30, 16:06
Except that, you know, the Agents physically take over the bodies of humans jacked into the System whereas Cylons hide amongst humans, and, in fact, are often programmed to believe they are human.
More the vague 'anyone can be an enemy/part of the system' thing. But yeah, true.
Oh, hey, topic! We missed you.
aegisofrime
2009-10-30, 19:02
Maybe Yuki, Ryoko and Kimidori are secretly male.
What?
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