View Full Version : The Character Discussion Thread of SOS団 Member: Mikuru Asahina
CrowKenobi
2009-08-26, 06:06
The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things Mikuru Asahina related.
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Ok, poor Mikuru. We certanly have something to talk about her right? Right?
Hmm, how about her clueless perosona,even though she comes from the future? I mean, her boss is her olderself, she certanly knows what is going to happen.
And is not about the future envents she is clueless about. She never knows what is going on until someone point to her. It definitively don't help the fact Kyon usually only talk important things with Itsuki. She also don't know much about the age she was put in (not knowing how use a omputer or how boats floats). It makes one wonder why someone would send someone like her to such important mission.
There really isn't much to say. It's all classified information. She's powerless besides travelling through time. Because she's so powerless, her futile efforts tug our heartstrings. :<
There really isn't much to say.
This is agains the point of this tread :heh: We need to talk about something.
Besides, I was not talking about that. I mean, coming rom future mean having a lot of cool informations. However, is not like she knows a lot but can't say nothing. She really don't knows what is going on. I mean, what some one so unskiled is doing in the past in the first place?
B-b-b-ut i-it's classified information. She's the moeblob of the series with a seemingly void history and predictable behavoir. I think my point is that I don't find her as a rounded out character.
Just adorable.
Oh, I believe that is the point too :heh: She is flat as papper, at last for now,.
Her olderself, however, is much more interesting. How Mikuru ever grows to become that? Going from a half-useless moeblob to a confident and mysterious woman?
Her olderself, however, is much more interesting. How Mikuru ever grows to become that? Going from a half-useless moeblob to a confident and mysterious woman?
Easy. Marriage.
freakonboard
2009-08-26, 12:02
While the series always portray as she's powerless, IMHO she's not that totally powerless.
In Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, Mikuru (small) could make Kyon unconscious with unknown method, and then Mikuru (big) did the same to her past self.
And speaking of Mikuru (big), she also managed to take TPDD from her past self with unknown method.
Easy. Marriage.
Wait, why a marriage would do that good to her? Seeing her young personality, I would say it is the opposity. She would only be a house wife, serving food and tea for the rest of her life. I can see she being happy like that, but it is far form her oldself.
PP:
While the series always portray as she's powerless, IMHO she's not that totally powerless.
In Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, Mikuru (small) could make Kyon unconscious with unknown method, and then Mikuru (big) did the same to her past self.
And speaking of Mikuru (big), she also managed to take TPDD from her past self with unknown method.
She did absolutelly nothing but sleep and cry after they being on the past though. This onlly showed me she can travel in the time, nothing more.
Wait, why a marriage would do that good to her? Seeing her young personality, I would say it is the opposity. She would only be a house wife, serving food and tea for the rest of her life. I can see she being happy like that, but it is far form her oldself.
Oh wait, true. Japanese marriages are different from the Western view. Cos like, housewives are considered to be an important role in SOCIETY.
So instead, maybe she joined a biker gang and became awesome. Or had a boyfriend, and things didn't go well. Or she killed Haruhi in the future, and is trying to fix that mistake! (THAT IS TOTALLY SPECULATION NOT A SPOILER)
freakonboard
2009-08-26, 12:15
She did absolutelly nothing but sleep and cry after they being on the past though. This onlly showed me she can travel in the time, nothing more.
I know that, but what I'm trying to say is: she is supposed to have other ability besides time traveling. (making people unconscious)
I know that, but what I'm trying to say is: she is supposed to have other ability besides time traveling. (making people unconscious)
Anybody can have that power with a rag and a bottle of chloroform.
Hmm, how about her clueless perosona,even though she comes from the future? I mean, her boss is her olderself, she certanly knows what is going to happen.
There's not any actual evidence to show that Mikuru(big) is actually the boss of Mikuru(small). Kyon just thinks the older version is in charge because she's the only other time traveler he has seen that isn't part of an opposing group. It's entirely possible that the higher-ups in Mikuru's group only send Mikuru(big) back to interact with Kyon because she is the only one he would trust. And to keep him from getting suspicious of them.
It makes one wonder why someone would send someone like her to such important mission.
Causal loop. They had to send Mikuru to interact with Haruhi because Mikuru was the one who Haruhi interacted with in the past. If they refused to do that then history wouldn't play out as their history books say it did. Or because they knew the SOS Dan needed a moe-blob and she was selected because she could display the required attributes.
freakonboard
2009-08-26, 12:32
Speaking of this, there's a theory that indeed Mikuru's organization is a bad guys group.
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 12:34
Causal loop. They had to send Mikuru to interact with Haruhi because Mikuru was the one who Haruhi interacted with in the past. If they refused to do that then history wouldn't play out as their history books say it did. Or because they knew the SOS Dan needed a moe-blob and she was selected because she could display the required attributes.
I particularly like your moe-blob position. Mikuru may simply be the cutest member of her organization. I get a laugh at the idea of all of these majorly competent and steely officers getting passed over in favor of Mikuru simply because she's the cutest. :heh: :D
There's not any actual evidence to show that Mikuru(big) is actually the boss of Mikuru(small). Kyon just thinks the older version is in charge because she's the only other time traveler he has seen that isn't part of an opposing group. It's entirely possible that the higher-ups in Mikuru's group only send Mikuru(big) back to interact with Kyon because she is the only one he would trust. And to keep him from getting suspicious of them.
True. Still, they could inform Mikuru more, if they want to.
Causal loop. They had to send Mikuru to interact with Haruhi because Mikuru was the one who Haruhi interacted with in the past. If they refused to do that then history wouldn't play out as their history books say it did. Or because they knew the SOS Dan needed a moe-blob and she was selected because she could display the required attributes.
Well, there is the problem with the logic behind that. Even if the need to send Mikuru, they could have trained her more. If they were following Mikuru(Big) instrution of how she used to be that time, there is the paradox. Mikuru(Big) is only like that because they send Mikuru(small) following instrutions of Mikuru(Big). Why, of all possibilitys, Mikuru was so helplessly clueless? If Mikuru(Big) remembered her as being more knowledgable so would be Mikuru(Small). Then, why it happened in that specificaly way?
Obviously, you moeblob theory is good enough to explai all of it :P
Well, there is the problem with the logic behind that. Even if the need to send Mikuru, they could have trained her more. If they were following Mikuru(Big) instrution of how she used to be that time, there is the paradox. Mikuru(Big) is only like that because they send Mikuru(small) following instrutions of Mikuru(Big). Why, of all possibilitys, Mikuru was so helplessly clueless? If Mikuru(Big) remembered her as being more knowledgable so would be Mikuru(Small). Then, why it happened in that specificaly way?
Where has it been said that Mikuru(small) is genuinely helpless? Perhaps she is simply so competent and dedicated to her mission that she is able to put on a flawless show of incompetence. Who would suspect that the (seemingly) helpless little girl is actually the most dangerous opponent?
Or it could be that the process that prevents agents from giving out classified information really messes up their minds. Maybe they were trying to train Mikuru into a super-competent agent when they realized "Uh-oh, if we don't get her into the past soon she won't be able to pass as a high-schooler anymore." Then they did the stuff with her mind and she lost most of her training but there wasn't any time to retrain her.
Where has it been said that Mikuru(small) is genuinely helpless? Perhaps she is simply so competent and dedicated to her mission that she is able to put on a flawless show of incompetence. Who would suspect that the (seemingly) helpless little girl is actually the most dangerous opponent?
I like that theory. It can make a good twist latter.
Or it could be that the process that prevents agents from giving out classified information really messes up their minds. Maybe they were trying to train Mikuru into a super-competent agent when they realized "Uh-oh, if we don't get her into the past soon she won't be able to pass as a high-schooler anymore." Then they did the stuff with her mind and she lost most of her training but there wasn't any time to retrain her.
This mkae sense too. Itwould be kinda funny if the mental conditioning be ever rid of her mind and sh soodenly become super-competent. :p
Where has it been said that Mikuru(small) is genuinely helpless? Perhaps she is simply so competent and dedicated to her mission that she is able to put on a flawless show of incompetence. Who would suspect that the (seemingly) helpless little girl is actually the most dangerous opponent?
Or it could be that she is, indeed, the most dangerous opponent and that Mikuru (small, hyper-competent) was backed up to some sort of mind storage and the Mikuru we see now is lightweight mental shell which, if things really go pear-shaped for her faction, can be wiped in an instant and Sealed Evil in a Can hyper-competent Mikuru can be downloaded into the past to kick ass and take names.
Another thought. There is no guarantee that Mikuru (big) is telling the truth about herself. She and Mikuru (small) could well be the same intelligence in two different bodies. Just that Mikuru (small) employs a moe-blob facade to deter possible suspicion, and she enjoys making that snarky caveman think that she needs protecting.
This might be why the only member of the SOS-dan Mikuru seems genuinely unnerved by is Yuki, as Yuki is at or above her tech-level, and thus, is the only one who could blow Mikuru's charade open, should such a thing benefit the DITE.
Where has it been said that Mikuru(small) is genuinely helpless? Perhaps she is simply so competent and dedicated to her mission that she is able to put on a flawless show of incompetence. Who would suspect that the (seemingly) helpless little girl is actually the most dangerous opponent?
This is the theory I most like. It wouldn't be the first time somebody in this series alters their personality a bit for the sake of their mission (Koizumi as well, supposedly).
Not saying that Mikuru is completely different from her moeblob personality. Just... exaggerated for everyone (especially Kyon). :p It would be awesome for some sort of Mikuru deception later in the series.
If it were true, then Mikuru might even become my favourite character. xD
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 16:25
Another thought. There is no guarantee that Mikuru (big) is telling the truth about herself. She and Mikuru (small) could well be the same intelligence in two different bodies. Just that Mikuru (small) employs a moe-blob facade to deter possible suspicion, and she enjoys making that snarky caveman think that she needs protecting.
You have some of the best "thinking outside the box" ideas I've ever read. This one above is particularly amusing and pleasing to me. :heh: :D :cool:
Rep points for this and your Nagato thoughts. :)
Edit: Dang! Can't rep you yet. Have to spread rep around first...
I think a lot of her demonstrated incompetence can be traced back to her being a low ranking member of her faction who was never supposed to interact with Haruhi to any significant degree. She states as much in BLR at least, though that might need to be take with few kilos of salt.
So I suspect she's in a near constant state of panic, after her mission goes pear shaped and she's dragged right into the middle of the storm, all thanks to Kyon. Its a wonder she doesn't hate the boy.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-26, 17:29
There is no guarantee that Mikuru (big) is telling the truth about herself. She and Mikuru (small) could well be the same intelligence in two different bodies.
Two different bodies with identical defining features? :heh:
Two different bodies with identical defining features? :heh:
No reason why she can't clone herself, either biologically, or have any number of duplicate wholly-synthetic bodies representing as many different ages as she feels the need for. And for this particular assignment, she might be maintaining these identical identifying features ('young' Mikuru and 'old' Mikuru) to deflect suspicion and to avoid blowing Kyon's poor caveman mind.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-26, 18:10
Except, the feature in question is the very thing Big Mikuru used to actually confirm her identity... before Kyon even knew about it. :heh:
I have always wondered what did mikuru mean when she said that :
"If something should happen so I cannot become a bride, will you take me...?" (from baka-tsuki)
Any clue ?
TakariCritic
2009-08-26, 20:28
At that point, Mikuru was so tramautized by being treated like such a sex toy, that she felt she was sullied and unsuited for marraige. Her asking Kyon to take her was really a desperate plea in her mind, because at that moment she saw herself as nothing more than an object.
yezhanquan
2009-08-26, 20:33
You really pity the girl in canon. In Haruhi-chan, you say a prayer every time she appears.
Maho Momo
2009-08-26, 20:40
At that point, Mikuru was so tramautized by being treated like such a sex toy, that she felt she was sullied and unsuited for marraige. Her asking Kyon to take her was really a desperate plea in her mind, because at that moment she saw herself as nothing more than an object.
That's terrible. @_@;
TakariCritic
2009-08-26, 20:42
In terms of Mikuru's lack of knowledge of her own future, I can't help but consider a certain character.
I can't help but think that knowing your own future takes all the fun out of everything. Not only do you know what's going to happen, but you're temporally obligated to see it through. Fujiwara outright announces his distaste for this in volume 7.
The Sneering Bastard gazed at Asahina-san, snorted loudly, and then stared at me with an evil eye "Our mission this time did not end in failure. We merely allowed history to follow its course. Great job guys, whether it's you or Asahina Mikuru. Oh yeah, let me ask you, how does it feel to have your limbs manipulated like a puppet? I definitely won't be pleased, as I hate following arranged scripts, especially ones where you already know the ending!"
"Well, I wouldn't mind if that were to happen to me," The kidnapper girl said. "You tell me, how many futures have been decided? It requires a bit of skill to follow through to the correct outcome without deviating from the intended path, you know. While anyone can
dance easily, it's very difficult having to dance correctly as instructed."
"Hmph! You can dance all you like! I never expected anything from you people,"
"Oh really?"
The kidnapper girl said amusingly,
"I personally wouldn't mind at all. Since our objectives are the same, let's continue to work
together!"
To me, it seems like Fujiwara already knows his fate, and hates himself for knowing. Mikuru actually is better off not knowing what's to happen, as she's "free" to act on her own accord, even if it ends up being predetermined.
Also, it is my personal speculation that Fujiwara learned everything about his future from Mikuru (Big), hence his intense hatred of her, and her goals.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-26, 23:04
Worth pointing out that Nagato seems a lot, for lack of a better word, happier after Disappearance, due to no longer having knowledge of future events. As well, Kyon was losing it from Snow Mountain Syndrome to the Intrigues prologue, knowing that at some point he has to return to December 18th, and during Intrigues itself, he has to be careful that he doesn't screw up history.
So yeah, Mikuru is probably better off not knowing anything. "Ignorance is bliss," after all. :heh:
Nukerjsr
2009-08-27, 00:38
I personally think that Mikuru really shouldn't have the title of "moeblob." No question that she's a tower of moe, but the amount of stuff she puts up with is something that very few humans can deal with before snapping or quitting.
I think the anime shows a lot of her moe actions, since it's a visual media, but she's truly a character who is important to the series. Many things in the SOS-Dan wouldn't of been possible if not for Mikuru-chan. The big flaw I see in her character is that we don't really know all that much about HERSELF. We just know about her duties and her conversations with Kyon.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-27, 00:40
Agreed, I think K-On! provides us with a character more deserving of that title. :heh:
In terms of Mikuru's lack of knowledge of her own future, I can't help but consider a certain character.
I can't help but think that knowing your own future takes all the fun out of everything. Not only do you know what's going to happen, but you're temporally obligated to see it through. Fujiwara outright announces his distaste for this in volume 7.
To me, it seems like Fujiwara already knows his fate, and hates himself for knowing. Mikuru actually is better off not knowing what's to happen, as she's "free" to act on her own accord, even if it ends up being predetermined.
Also, it is my personal speculation that Fujiwara learned everything about his future from Mikuru (Big), hence his intense hatred of her, and her goals.
You are right actually.
Yeah, it is good for her don't knowing nothing. "Ignorance is bliss" fit perfectly for time travels. This might explain why Asahina(Big) don't tell nothing to her, the same reason Nagato(future) prevent Nagato(past) to sync with her.
However, how about their bosses? What they think about it? Whr Mikuru(Big) is really the nly boss after all?
Where has it been said that Mikuru(small) is genuinely helpless? Perhaps she is simply so competent and dedicated to her mission that she is able to put on a flawless show of incompetence. Who would suspect that the (seemingly) helpless little girl is actually the most dangerous opponent?
If that turns out to be the case, then she might rank up on my list... but from what we've seen/read in E8 and other instances... I'm not too sure about that.
I'm with Kyon on my views of Mikuru... she really would leave a laser gun on a train... well, at least she's cute.
Well...you could always make the laser internal so she can't drop it....
stubby42
2009-08-28, 16:05
I will forever feel sorry for Mikuru, she suffers so that no one else has to.
I don't think she's competent and merely hiding behind a facade, though I like that as a theory. In terms of what makes her the person she becomes later...
Near the end of book 7, because of everything that happens to her, Mikuru promises Kyon that one day she'll prove herself and be able to take care of things on her own, and that she'll be the one who gets to protect Kyon. In Disappearance Asahina-san (big) says "those were rough years..." I think this is the best evidence that she's very sincere when she's young, and she struggles to understand her role in all this. I'm speculating that perhaps she's overcompensating by the end of the series, and that in her big form she's going to try and exert more control than is necessary...
Ice Block
2009-08-29, 04:24
Sorry to derail a bit, but:
As many would know, this chapter had the SOS-dan publish a paper containing write-ups by the brigade members and a few extras, including Tsuruya, Kunikida and Taniguchi. Here's Mikuru's write-up, taken from Baka-Tsuki (http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume8_Editor_in_ Chief%E2%98%85Straight_Ahead!) (revisions by Haruhi included):
①
It was not so long ago, but it was a story from before the present.
Deep in the forest of a certain small country, there was a lone mountain
cabin.
And there lived Snow White together with the Seven Dwarves.
Snow White had not been driven out, but had run away from the castle by
herself and come here. Life in the castle was not so interesting to her,
it seems. Since it was a small country and she was their princess, they
had decided to make use of her by arranging a marriage of convenience.
Isn't that detestable? Snow White thought so, too.
However, she was slowly getting tired of living in the forest as well.
Thanks to the Dwarves, I don't have to worry about food, clothing, or
shelter, and I've become good friends with the animals in the forest,
but I wonder if the castle is doing well by itself, she came to think.
Those egotistic words just jumped out, but the castle was filled with
nothing but good people. On the date when the arranged marriage was
supposed to happen, the Small Country had to take hostages and form
alliances just so they could get strong enough to survive.
②
At around the same time, a mermaid who was swimming in a beach near the
forest had just rescued a prince who had been left abandoned on a shipwreck.
The mermaid moved the Prince to the shore, but the unconscious Prince just
kept on sleeping. He didn't wake up no matter what she did. The worried
mermaid then made up her mind to take him to where Snow White was.
Snow White had been her friend since the time she had gone to the forest.
And the mermaid remembered that Snow White had said, "If you find
something interesting, bring it to me!"
The mermaid asked the Good-Natured Witch to change her fish tail to legs,
and she carried the unconscious Prince to the Dwarves' cabin.
But even when she saw the Prince that the mermaid had brought, Snow White
wasn't delighted much. What she thought of as interesting was a little
different. A prince that just kept on sleeping was not something she found
that appealing.......
Although having to take care of someone was exciting at the beginning,
Snow White was becoming more and more bored with it. Because he never
opened his eyes at all. She was getting tired of looking at his sleeping face.
I wonder if he'll wake up if I hit him hard, she started thinking, when an
express messenger from Snow White's castle had come.
This is what the messenger said. Our neighbor, the Great Empire, has
mobilized a vast force to cross into our borders, and lay siege to the
castle, and the way things were going, it's going to fall soon, if it
hasn't fallen already.
How dreadful.
③
When Snow White heard that, she left the Prince, who never woke up no
matter how long they waited, in the care of the mermaid, and left the
forest with the Seven Dwarves. The first place they went to was a craggy
mountain. There, the Tactician who had become a hermit lived by himself.
If the tales were true, then he would not associate with someone unless they
had visited him three times, but Snow White ordered the Dwarves to capture
the Tactician, and she appointed him their Chief-of-Staff. The Tactician
smiled bitterly, and with a "Well, okay I guess," he gave his allegiance
to Snow White.
Thus the number of Snow White's party grew to nine, and as soon as they had
climbed down from the mountain, they gathered volunteer soldiers in the towns
and villages where the Empire's forces had not yet been to. They were
totally unable to assemble enough people to match the Great Empire's troops,
but all the same, Snow White raised an anti-imperialist banner and set out
for the castle. They defeated the Imperial Forces that had been sent to
intercept them one by one, and garnered a series of victories in various
places, until they finally recaptured the castle, after which they pursued
and annihilated the retreating Imperials, then went on from there by making
a counter-invasion and overthrowing the Empire in the blink of an eye, and
the country became a part of her own dominion. How surprising.
It did not end there. Snow White, the Tactician, and the Seven Dwarves,
formed a big army and ran through all of the countries in all of the land,
and using various strategies and conspiracies, they were able to unite the
continent. The Age of the Warring States was ended, and they were visited by
a period of peace and harmony.
④
Snow White, having nothing more to do, left the rest to the Tactician
and went home to the forest. Though she was no longer concerned about the
arranged marriage, returning to the castle would just mean getting bored
everyday. Playing freely in the forest was better.
Snow White came back to the cabin along with the Seven Dwarves, and was
surprised to see that the Prince was still sleeping. She had completely
forgotten about him.
Ah, during that time, the mermaid had been taking good care of the Prince.
Snow White grabbed an apple the Forest Bear had brought while visiting, and
used it to hit the Prince on the head.
"That's too much sleep already, now wake up!"
It is said that the Prince opened his eyes, three days later.
What happened to everyone after that, no one knows.
Still, I feel certain that everyone became happy. And I wish that they all did.
How much does this fairy-tale-gone-wrong tell us about Mikuru's character [at this point in the timeline]? How much does this tell us of the "future" where she's from? Not to mention, how much of these were Haruhi's revisions? :heh:
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-29, 04:42
I love this Snow White's solution to the problem at the end. :heh:
I will forever feel sorry for Mikuru, she suffers so that no one else has to.
That gives a whole new meaning to that one episode of Haruhi-chan . . . :heh:
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-29, 10:10
We will never forget the lesson you taught us... Mikuru-chan...
Mikuru: Um... I'm standing right here...
yezhanquan
2009-08-29, 21:08
I think quite a bit of flak which Mikuru receives is for the way Goto-san voiced her. Seriously, even in Haruhi-chan, there were times where I just wanted her to be silent. Imagine what watchers of the "normal" series must have felt.
Goto is amazing... the sheer endurance of putting out that much whining, crying, and screaming. Not that it doesn't drive me nuts and wish more harm on Mikuru --- but you have to give her some credit for the incessant wailing. :)
I've been wondering this for a while....but what will happen when Mikuru graduates from NH? I mean, she's a year ahead of the other SOS Dan members, so what will happen then? Considering Haruhi's personality, would Haruhi let her go, or do something?
Many theories. Some say the serie would end before it. Other say she would left the school but come back, older with another code name, as a teacher(I don't believe that last theory).
yezhanquan
2009-08-30, 19:34
Goto is amazing... the sheer endurance of putting out that much whining, crying, and screaming. Not that it doesn't drive me nuts and wish more harm on Mikuru --- but you have to give her some credit for the incessant wailing. :)
Aye. If you put it that way, I guess....
I just wish that she sounds more like Hiro from Hidamari. Heck, Mikuru is Hiro in the Haruhi/Hidamari OP mix.
hahaha, older Mikuru as a teacher in NH, yeah i don't see how that one would work out well
Many theories. Some say the serie would end before it. Other say she would left the school but come back, older with another code name, as a teacher(I don't believe that last theory).
Yeah, the teacher theory seems a bit far-fetched to me.
----
I think the series will finish before Mikuru graduates. Either that, or Haruhi will force her to continue coming to Brigade meetings even after she graduates. xD
She's not going to let her just leave, in any case. That's why I think the "coming back as a teacher" thing isn't really all that probable. (To Haruhi, she'd still be a different person)
Kaisos Erranon
2009-08-30, 20:02
Series could easily end with her graduation, too.
Archon_Wing
2009-08-30, 23:08
Mikuru's mistreatment is probably one of the darkest aspects of the series. Haruhi finds it amusing, and sometimes the audience does too. And since Haruhi seems to treat the whole thing as an adventure, she might be doing it because "you" want to see it. The story's more interesting that way. Remember at first, she captured Mikuru because the story needs a helpless moeblob. I feel so bad now. :heh:
Sarcasm aside, I think what happened here is the concept of "moe" gone very very wrong. Poor Mikuru; but at least she survives the ordeal.
Triple_R
2009-08-30, 23:31
Sarcasm aside, I think what happened here is the concept of "moe" gone very very wrong. Poor Mikuru; but at least she survives the ordeal.
Maybe this is the entire point of Mikuru's character - maybe this is the novel writer's way of commenting on the modern otaku love of moe characters. Maybe he's saying "So, you'd like to see a moe character come to life, eh? You'd like to see a real life girl dress up and act like this, huh? Well... fine, I'll show you what happens when a real life girl is forcefully made moe." It could be a rather biting and poignant critique on moe-love within the otaku community. ;)
Kind of like what Neon Genesis Evangelion did by taking a few beloved anime stock character types, and putting them through the realism meat-grinder.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-30, 23:35
Were otaku overly obsessed with moe characters back in 2003? I mean, a lot of people hadn't even heard of the term until Haruhi popularized it. :heh:
Triple_R
2009-08-30, 23:42
Were otaku overly obsessed with moe characters back in 2003? I mean, a lot of people hadn't even heard of the term until Haruhi popularized it. :heh:
The moe term itself perhaps wasn't well-known until after Haruhi, but the basic gist behind it has been around a long time. The anime/manga fan's love of girls in maid outfits, of girls in waitress outfits, of cat-girls, of girls in cute clothes... that's been around at least as long as harem anime has been around.
Were otaku overly obsessed with moe characters back in 2003? I mean, a lot of people hadn't even heard of the term until Haruhi popularized it. :heh:
Haha, the "moe" boom.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3900/i01.jpg
Must have been before that. There is a 2001 horror film that supposedly "deals" with the concept of moe and the implications on the Japanese girls and the otaku males who've gone 2D/idealized schoolgirl over adult females.
That and the first Saimoe was 2002.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-08-31, 02:49
Kind of like what Neon Genesis Evangelion did by taking a few beloved anime stock character types, and putting them through the realism meat-grinder.
And everyone ignored that part and just went "ooooh, robots".
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-31, 02:55
Obviously, otherwise people would've realized that Shinji was probably the least emotionally screwed up person in the series... aside from possibly Rei.
*e* ... and Kaji... at least, I don't think he had any problems... It's been a while. :heh:
Obviously, otherwise people would've realized that Shinji was probably the least emotionally screwed up person in the series... aside from possibly Rei.
*e* ... and Kaji... at least, I don't think he had any problems... It's been a while. :heh:
Gendou just didn't handle Shinji the right way... he should have just slapped the fail out of him...
vtfon4QtA9U
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-31, 03:45
You're absolutely right. Leaving your kid behind because your wife died is certainly not the right way to handle things.
For the record, your "solution" wouldn't have been the right way, either. :heh:
You're absolutely right. Leaving your kid behind because your wife died is certainly not the right way to handle things.
For the record, your "solution" wouldn't have been the right way, either. :heh:
I'm sorry. But whenever anyone mentions Shinji... I just want to slap the fail out of him...
Archon_Wing
2009-08-31, 13:48
Kind of like what Neon Genesis Evangelion did by taking a few beloved anime stock character types, and putting them through the realism meat-grinder.
And the grand irony? People fell in love with the things he was trying to criticize, such as the emotionless, creepy Rei, not for the deconstruction, but for what she was at face value. And it may be happening in Haruhi.
I once read Anno was so disheartened at this, that one of the results was Shinji fapping scene, because that's what he felt that's all people took his characters as. I just hope the author for Haruhi does not have a breakdown and have Kyon do something similar. :heh:
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-31, 13:51
... That's about the only thing Kyon could've done in Disappearance to make him look worse. :heh:
Triple_R
2009-08-31, 18:27
And the grand irony? People fell in love with the things he was trying to criticize, such as the emotionless, creepy Rei, not for the deconstruction, but for what she was at face value. And it may be happening in Haruhi.
I once read Anno was so disheartened at this, that one of the results was Shinji fapping scene, because that's what he felt that's all people took his characters as. I just hope the author for Haruhi does not have a breakdown and have Kyon do something similar. :heh:
I always wondered what the motivation behind that scene was. Even most Shinji defenders that I've talked with pretty much admit that Shinji was indefensible there. :heh: So, thanks for the info, Archon_Wing.
Anyway... deconstruction characters are tricky because fans of series naturally trend towards wanting to like the characters (outright villains notwithstanding) in the series that they like. Short of flat-out caricaturizing a character, it can be very hard to effectively convey to the fans of your work "You're not supposed to like this character!" :heh:
Archon_Wing
2009-08-31, 18:40
Short of flat-out caricaturizing a character, it can be very hard to effectively convey to the fans of your work "You're not supposed to like this character!" :heh:
Kinda like a joke, it fails when you have to explain it. ;)
Though I think I'll consider myself a Shinji defender. To me, he wasn't really that bad til near the end. He wasn't likable either, but it's only natural to be emo when your dad is a genocidal maniac who is working for people worse than him, everyone's an asshole or bipolar, and whatever plot contrivances happened when Anno was off his drugs and decided to be cruel to everyone.
Triple_R
2009-08-31, 18:44
Kinda like a joke, it fails when you have to explain it. ;)
Though I think I'll consider myself a Shinji defender. To me, he wasn't really that bad til near the end. He wasn't likable either, but it's only natural to be emo when your dad is a genocidal maniac who is working for people worse than him, everyone's an asshole or bipolar, and whatever plot contrivances happened when Anno was off his drugs and decided to be cruel to everyone.
I didn't have much problem with Shinji in the NGE 26 episode series. Well... I thought he was an idiot for not pursuing Asuka more, but that was the shipper in me. ;)
My only problem with Shinji was in End of Eva... partly because of the scene you mentioned.
Must have been before that. There is a 2001 horror film that supposedly "deals" with the concept of moe and the implications on the Japanese girls and the otaku males who've gone 2D/idealized schoolgirl over adult females.
This information intrigues me, and I would like to know more.
If I can steer this thread back to Mikuru for a moment: Poor girl can't even keep a hold of her own thread. Isn't it sad that Mikuru is losing her thread to someone like Shinji? Does this increase her moe-factor, or is it just pathetic?
Archon_Wing
2009-09-01, 02:12
If I can steer this thread back to Mikuru for a moment: Poor girl can't even keep a hold of her own thread. Isn't it sad that Mikuru is losing her thread to someone like Shinji? Does this increase her moe-factor, or is it just pathetic?
It is quite pathetic, but at least she has a bright future so we know she finds her away. Adult Mikuru even found it nostalgic. Hmm...
yezhanquan
2009-09-01, 09:09
I guess it's just a phase. Both Mikuru and Shinji got over it, and so should we, me think.
The horror film was called "Stacy"
Jonbob0008
2009-09-02, 05:49
Well, since no one's said enough about Mikuru, I guess I'll give it a go.
The main reason why I find Mikuru the least attractive alluded me for a while. I knew it wasn't because of her personality. I loved Shinobu from Love Hina, and her personality was very similar. After some thought, I finally figured out why I don't like her that much.
Three reasons. Her voice is too high pitched, her boobs are too big, and her hairs is too long or not long enough. I know it makes me a shallow bas%$#@, but it's the truth.
Her voice was already discussed, so I'll talk about the boobs. Strangely, I'm one of those people who doesn't like big boobs. I don't think big boobs go well with her personality, either. I'd hate to think that Haruhi's judgement was off when she picked Mikuru as her mascot, but I never thought she was anything special, and her boobs look weird on her small frame.
As for her hair, I just thinks it's boring. I've already mentioned that I love shoulder length hair (Like Haruhi's *drool*) and Tsuruya's hair is so long it adds to her personality. I even like Yuki's hair more than Mikuru's as it's so short it adds personality.
Anyway, I was curious as to why other might love her or not like her all that much. Do any of you guys agree with me?
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-02, 06:09
Breasts. If she were Haruhi-sized or smaller, I'd probably have no problems with her.
Then again, she wouldn't even be in the cast if she weren't "extremely well-endowed," so it's a bit of a pointless argument. :heh:
Triple_R
2009-09-02, 06:11
Well, since no one's said enough about Mikuru, I guess I'll give it a go.
The main reason why I find Mikuru the least attractive alluded me for a while. I knew it was because of her personality. I loved Shinobu from Love Hina, and her personality was very similar. After some thought, I finally figured out why I don't like her that much.
Three reasons. Her voice is too high pitched, her boobs are too big, and her hairs is too long or not long enough. I know it makes me a shallow bas%$#@, but it's the truth.
Her voice was already discussed, so I'll talk about the boobs. Strangely, I'm one of those people who doesn't like big boobs. I don't think big boobs go well with her personality, either. I'd hate to think that Haruhi's judgement was off when she picked Mikuru as her mascot, but I never thought she was anything special, and her boobs look weird on her small frame.
As for her hair, I just thinks it's boring. I've already mentioned that I love shoulder length hair (Like Haruhi's *drool*) and Tsuruya's hair is so long it adds to her personality. I even like Yuki's hair more than Mikuru's as it's so short it adds personality.
Anyway, I was curious as to why other might love her or not like her all that much. Do any of you guys agree with me?
Mikuru's breast size to waist size ratio looks bad in the Battle Waitress outfit... but that's at least partly due to the corset effect. In her North High student uniform, or in the red bunny suit, she looks Ok to me... well, I have to admit that she looks quite nice to me in the red bunny suit. She's at/very near my personal upper limit for attractive breast size in the red bunny suit, but she doesn't quite pass it.
I can't bring myself to outright dislike Mikuru; she's just too kindhearted a person for me to actively dislike, but she is my least favorite of the five SOS Brigade members. She's just so weak/wimpish... she makes Orihime from Bleach look tough in comparison. Granted, that this makes some of Mikuru's reactions funny (I found some of her freaked out facial appearances in Episode 12 of this year to be hilarious, I have to admit), but often her whininess just grates on me. It's why I have such a hard time pitying the girl, or even finding much fault in how Haruhi treats her... Mikuru is such a whiner. :heh:
Overall, I find Haruhi's character design to be more attractive than Mikuru's.
For me....
Haruhi's character design = dynamic, sexy, alluring, adorable
Mikuru's character design = ubercute
Mikuru has Haruhi beat in the moe department, but I'd give Haruhi the edge in pretty much every other area.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-02, 06:15
she makes Orihime from Bleach look tough in comparison.
THIS IS FUNNY BECAUSE OF THE DUBBED VERSIONS!
... Sorry. :heh:
Jonbob0008
2009-09-02, 06:17
Truthfully, I think the msid costume is the only costume that really suits her. I definitely think the bunny girl contumes suits Haruhi way better, and the corset in the Battle Waitress costume looks weird to me. I think it would be better without it.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-02, 06:20
OBJECTION!!
The waitress outfit that Mikuru (and Tsuruya) wore during Live A Live was excellent, and Mikuru looked genuinely attractive in the various yukata shown during the Endless Eight arc.
Triple_R
2009-09-02, 07:05
THIS IS FUNNY BECAUSE OF THE DUBBED VERSIONS!
... Sorry. :heh:
LOL! I only saw a little bit of dubbed Bleach. Now I feel compelled to watch a bit more... just to see what affect Mikuru's English dub voice has on my appreciation for Orihime. :heh: (I assume, based by your comment, that they're voiced by the same person?).
Oh, and for Jonbob... I agree that the maid outfit is Mikuru's best look, and probably suits her best.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-02, 07:37
Don't worry. There aren't really all that many instances of Mikuru and Orihime sounding similiar, and it'd mostly be on Mikuru's side.
However, seeing as Wendee Lee voices Tatsuki...
Roger Rambo
2009-09-02, 07:42
Anybody can have that power with a rag and a bottle of chloroform.
Chloroform doesn't work that way. Doses that could theoretically instantly KO will pretty much guaranteed to kill someone. Why do you think for surgery they have specialists whose sole job is to monitor the anesthetics into the patient? Because putting someone out is by definition is never a safe thing to do. "Safer" doses still are particularly dangerious to the person you're trying to knock out, but it also takes prolonged exposure to put them under. Do we really think Mikuru would be able to force a chemically soaked rag on kyon's face for over a minute?
Well...you could always make the laser internal so she can't drop it....I don't think it's safe to give a Mikuru a weapon ANYWHERE.
Her voice was already discussed, so I'll talk about the boobs. Strangely, I'm one of those people who doesn't like big boobs. I don't think big boobs go well with her personality, either. I'd hate to think that Haruhi's judgement was off when she picked Mikuru as her mascot, but I never thought she was anything special, and her boobs look weird on her small frame.
Honestly this never bugged me. I'm not obsessed with large busts, but I certainly find them attractive.
Truthfully, I think the msid costume is the only costume that really suits her. I definitely think the bunny girl contumes suits Haruhi way better, and the corset in the Battle Waitress costume looks weird to me. I think it would be better without it.
What are you talking about? Mikuru looks adorable as a play boy bunny. (http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/764/mikuruwalk2.png) Oddly, I also don't see allot of appeal in the maid outfit.
The Battle Waitress costume does come off as a bit weak, but I don't think it's because of the corset. Mainly because it seems to be trying to hard to be fetishy. I thought the Soba restaurant outfit looked better.
Maho Momo
2009-09-02, 10:56
I go back and forth between disliking and liking Mikuru. Sometimes I don't like her because of her voice, her overly wimpy personality that somehow passes for "cute" to others but just seems a little overboard to me, and the fact that she was literally chosen for fanservice means.
So far she seems like a really shallow character though, there's not much depth to her or anything. If there was, I could easily ignore these "flaws" and depending on her backstory maybe even look at them as "strengths". But so far she's just "the cute one" and that's it, nothing developed about her personality really or anything. I've never read the novels, so I'm not sure if I'll like her or not in later chapters. But so far she does seem pretty "meh" to me because of her lack of development and the whole "BUT SHE'S CUTE!!!" thing constantly shoved in my face.
And sometimes I like her because she IS adorable and nice, I love her in Haruhi-chan, I found her really funny and easy to like in that. But in the main series, my feelings for her go back and forth. Out of all three of the main girls though, I do favor Mikuru. If we include Tsuruya though, that might be a little different. =P
CrowKenobi
2009-09-02, 12:03
The Battle Waitress costume does come off as a bit weak, but I don't think it's because of the corset. Mainly because it seems to be trying to hard to be fetishy. I thought the Soba restaurant outfit looked better.Well, if the Battle Waitress costume fit her properly and wasn't a size or two smaller... :D
Haruhi and her 'old man' instincts... :heh:
Jonbob0008
2009-09-02, 14:27
What are you talking about? Mikuru looks adorable as a play boy bunny. (http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/764/mikuruwalk2.png) Oddly, I also don't see allot of appeal in the maid outfit.
Well, they do say different strokes for different folks. I just think the bunny outfit works better for someone more...alluring, rather than just cute. I said the maid costume suits her because of her sweet and caring personality.
Oh, and I agree that the cultural festival outfit looked great on Mikuru, too. Someone pointed that out earlier.
Archon_Wing
2009-09-02, 14:33
Well, since no one's said enough about Mikuru, I guess I'll give it a go.
The main reason why I find Mikuru the least attractive alluded me for a while. I knew it wasn't because of her personality. I loved Shinobu from Love Hina, and her personality was very similar. After some thought, I finally figured out why I don't like her that much.
Three reasons. Her voice is too high pitched, her boobs are too big, and her hairs is too long or not long enough. I know it makes me a shallow bas%$#@, but it's the truth.
Her voice was already discussed, so I'll talk about the boobs. Strangely, I'm one of those people who doesn't like big boobs. I don't think big boobs go well with her personality, either. I'd hate to think that Haruhi's judgement was off when she picked Mikuru as her mascot, but I never thought she was anything special, and her boobs look weird on her small frame.
As for her hair, I just thinks it's boring. I've already mentioned that I love shoulder length hair (Like Haruhi's *drool*) and Tsuruya's hair is so long it adds to her personality. I even like Yuki's hair more than Mikuru's as it's so short it adds personality.
Anyway, I was curious as to why other might love her or not like her all that much. Do any of you guys agree with me?
Blasphemy! :D Though anime breasts, like everything in else in anime, tend to defy physics and tend towards being too big (or not at all). Which can be annoying.
Mikuru's probably my least favorite character just because I'm not really into moe characters. I prefer the cooler and calm characters (male and female) but that's just because excessive whining just grates on me.
Big Mikuru is another story...
Roger Rambo
2009-09-02, 15:35
Well, if the Battle Waitress costume fit her properly and wasn't a size or two smaller... :D
Haruhi and her 'old man' instincts... :heh:
...I have no problem with it being a few sizes to small.
I just don't really fancy the design.
Well, they do say different strokes for different folks. I just think the bunny outfit works better for someone more...alluring, rather than just cute. I said the maid costume suits her because of her sweet and caring personality.
I think the bunny suit works good for both. Of course I do have a preference for those kinds of outfits.
I guess the whole "Meido serving you" aspect just doesn't appeal to me.
stubby42
2009-09-13, 13:59
Can we talk about episode 14? that was some major stuff going on there that should really make us question Mikuru's motivations. Koizumi says mikuru is flirting with kyon so kyon will do what her organisation desires.
and of course theirs Mikuru's not so private chat with kyon which suggests she less fond of Koizumi than she lets on.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-13, 14:03
The thing is, Koizumi admitted he was just making that up. While his explanation would make sense, I'm pretty sure there's significant evidence, even within the material presented in the anime, that proves she's exactly how she seems.
stubby42
2009-09-13, 14:18
Whilst I'm not sure thats exactly the truth (I dont think Mikuru is that good of an actress) I think other people are using her in a way to create that situtation.
Koizumi only ever calls his statments a joke when he realises that he's pushed Kyon to his limit, its his way of calming kyon down even if he has said what he was thinking.
The same thing happened in endless 8, he was considering dating haruhi as an option and was testing the water, if Kyon reacted badly (which he did) then dating Haruhi wouldnt work it would cause more damage than good because of the way Kyon would react.
Koizumi either thinks what he described is happening, he knows Mikuru isnt the one in charge or he wants Kyon to think it.
The truth is Kyon cant trust any of the people he's surrounded by completely because their all hiding things, Mikuru isnt just a moe character there is more to her.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-13, 14:50
So you're saying he also believes the "clowns at the edge of an abyss" thing from Melancholy? He did the same thing there, you know. :heh:
Whilst I'm not sure thats exactly the truth (I dont think Mikuru is that good of an actress) I think other people are using her in a way to create that situtation.
Koizumi only ever calls his statments a joke when he realises that he's pushed Kyon to his limit, its his way of calming kyon down even if he has said what he was thinking.
The same thing happened in endless 8, he was considering dating haruhi as an option and was testing the water, if Kyon reacted badly (which he did) then dating Haruhi wouldnt work it would cause more damage than good because of the way Kyon would react.
Koizumi either thinks what he described is happening, he knows Mikuru isnt the one in charge or he wants Kyon to think it.
The truth is Kyon cant trust any of the people he's surrounded by completely because their all hiding things, Mikuru isnt just a moe character there is more to her.
What Koizumi saysmake sense, actually. Even if Mikuru is not acting, is possible that her bosses have choice her to taht purpose. Taht would explain why someone so unskiled is doing in a important mission the past.
Tornadium
2009-09-13, 15:57
Koizumi only ever calls his statments a joke when he realises that he's pushed Kyon to his limit, its his way of calming kyon down even if he has said what he was thinking.
The same thing happened in endless 8, he was considering dating haruhi as an option and was testing the water, if Kyon reacted badly (which he did) then dating Haruhi wouldnt work it would cause more damage than good because of the way Kyon would react.
Just two things here.
In terms of Koizumi testing Kyon, I think it's pretty obvious that some of the things he says as a "Joke" are really what he thinks or believes. It adds greatly to his character because you can never tell if he is being serious or not.
And on to point two.
I think by now Koizumi knows him and Haruhi will never happen as long as Kyon is around which i think is a BAD thing.
Hell i think the SOS brigade will eventually turn on Kyon especially Koizumi, I wouldn't rule out Koizumi trying to get rid of Kyon to get to Haruhi. However i think even he knows if he tried anything with Kyon around or not Haruhi would reject him openly because she cares for Kyon.
Hell if he tried with Kyon around he would get his ass kicked by Kyon (I hope pray to god).
Triple_R
2009-09-13, 16:04
Just two things here.
In terms of Koizumi testing Kyon, I think it's pretty obvious that some of the things he says as a "Joke" are really what he thinks or believes. It adds greatly to his character because you can never tell if he is being serious or not.
I actually kind of relate to Koizumi here. If I want to say something controversial, but that I feel is important, to somebody, I'll sometimes say it in a half-way joking tone. This enables me an out of "Well... I was only joking", in case the controversial statement that I make offends the person. ;)
So, I actually tip my hat to suave Itsuki here; well played, sir! :D
As for your spoileriffic speculations... they could be right.
Tornadium
2009-09-13, 16:09
I actually kind of relate to Koizumi here. If I want to say something controversial, but that I feel is important, to somebody, I'll sometimes say it in a half-way joking tone. This enables me an out of "Well... I was only joking", in case the controversial statement that I make offends the person. ;)
Yea it's sort of a "Incase of looking like an idiot or freak press now" button :P. I can relate to that myself.
As for your spoileriffic speculations... they could be right.
I pray to god i'm wrong, If it does happen though Kyon had better win Haruhi. Otherwise Haruhi is basically going to die as a series. Absolutely no one wants a Itsuki X Haruhi ending. At least in comparison to the rest of the shipping groups. It is absolutely the WORST possible ending. The only one i would never accept and would instantly shred my Haruhi Novels, Snap the DVDs and break everything to do with it.
Bit of an overreaction but whatever lol.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-13, 16:10
Why are we talking about shipping pairs that aren't even related to Mikuru? :heh:
Triple_R
2009-09-13, 16:15
Yea it's sort of a "Incase of looking like an idiot or freak press now" button :P. I can relate to that myself.
I pray to god i'm wrong, If it does happen though Kyon had better win Haruhi. Otherwise Haruhi is basically going to die as a series. Absolutely no one wants a Itsuki X Haruhi ending. At least in comparison to the rest of the shipping groups. It is absolutely the WORST possible ending. The only one i would never accept and would instantly shred my Haruhi Novels, Snap the DVDs and break everything to do with it.
Bit of an overreaction but whatever lol.
Don't worry. I really can't see it ending that way. Of all the possible pairings, that one has the least amount of canon content to back it up. Even Nagato/Mikuru has Nagato's obvious delight in biting at her neck, he he! :D
Edit: There you go, Kogetsu. Now here's a Mikuru pairing we can talk about if you like... ;) Ha ha!
Because Mikuru was designed to be delicious.
It is unclear however if she was sent back to appeal to Kyon, or to appeal to Haruhi...since it was Haruhi who kidnapped Mikuru to start the chain of events, and it is Haruhi who seems to be having the most fun playing with Mikuru's body.
Tornadium
2009-09-13, 16:19
Why are we talking about shipping pairs that aren't even related to Mikuru? :heh:
Haha sorry mate got sidetracked.
Just couldn't let that point go.
Don't worry. I really can't see it ending that way. Of all the possible pairings, that one has the least amount of canon content to back it up. Even Nagato/Mikuru has Nagato's obvious delight in biting at her neck, he he! :D
Edit: There you go, Kogetsu. Now here's a Mikuru pairing we can talk about if you like... ;) Ha ha!
I really really really hope so.
I wouldn't mind anything but that pairing. Hell
Yuki x Kyon and Itsuki x Mikuru with Haruhi alone would be better than ANYTHING to do with Itsuki and Haruhi
Mikuru and Yuki ftw :3
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-13, 16:19
Neither Nagato nor Mikuru can help the fact that the latter is tragically delicious. :p
*e* it is Haruhi who seems to be having the most fun playing with Mikuru's body.
I guarantee that Kyon would be right there with Haruhi if he thought he could get away with it. :heh:
worldruined
2009-09-13, 16:23
I pray to god i'm wrong, If it does happen though Kyon had better win Haruhi. Otherwise Haruhi is basically going to die as a series. Absolutely no one wants a Itsuki X Haruhi ending. At least in comparison to the rest of the shipping groups. It is absolutely the WORST possible ending. The only one i would never accept and would instantly shred my Haruhi Novels, Snap the DVDs and break everything to do with it.
So Koizumi*Kyon (or Kyon*Koizumi, whichever floats your boat) would be considered better than the Koizumi*Haruhi pairing? Huzzah! :kisskiss:
And... related to the thread:
Thus far, is Asahina-san the only one who hasn't indicated in some way that she'd put the SOS Brigade before her faction? I can't remember her having done so...
Tornadium
2009-09-13, 16:26
Because Mikuru was designed to be delicious.
It is unclear however if she was sent back to appeal to Kyon, or to appeal to Haruhi...since it was Haruhi who kidnapped Mikuru to start the chain of events, and it is Haruhi who seems to be having the most fun playing with Mikuru's body.
It could be,
I doubt they would send someone THAT perfect (In Kyon's mind) back just by chance.
I think Haruhi likes playing with Mikuru to sabotage her image in front of Kyon and get attention. Not because she actually sexually likes it.
So Koizumi*Kyon (or Kyon*Koizumi, whichever floats your boat) would be considered better than the Koizumi*Haruhi pairing? Huzzah! :kisskiss:
Yes for the love of god NEVER EVER EVER Haruhi and Itsuki. I would rather the series died and every damn character died before i saw that
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-13, 16:31
I think Haruhi likes playing with Mikuru to sabotage her image in front of Kyon and get attention. Not because she actually sexually likes it.
... This argument kinda fails due to the fact that the worst instance of it happens before Haruhi realizes Kyon was focusing his attention on Mikuru. :heh:
Tornadium
2009-09-13, 16:32
... This argument kinda fails due to the fact that the worst instance of it happens before Haruhi realizes Kyon was focusing his attention Mikuru. :heh:
What about sighs?
I would say that is definately the worst instance.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-13, 16:38
I'd say groping the poor girl after abducting her is far worse, but that's just me. :heh:
Triple_R
2009-09-13, 16:38
It could be,
I doubt they would send someone THAT perfect (In Kyon's mind) back just by chance.
I think Haruhi likes playing with Mikuru to sabotage her image in front of Kyon and get attention. Not because she actually sexually likes it.
I'm not completely sold on Haruhi being bi-sexual or bi-"curious" either. It's certainly possible that she is, but it's also possible that Haruhi just likes touching Mikuru suggestively in order to get the girl into blushing, shy, ideal moe mascot mode.
... Mind you, I've played around with the idea of a Haruhi/Mikuru fanfic.
Times change, but it was Haruhi that began the fondling in front of Kyon, and the costume changes, and the one who wanted to do the photo shoot(s) with Mikuru. First time with just the maid outfit...look how happy Haruhi looks even while Kyon is trying to pull her off of Mikuru. The second time, she sends Kyon on a mission so that she can play with her toy without his interference (DVD extra photo shoot in December).
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-13, 16:41
Er... yeah, I'm not arguing in favor of HaruhixMikuru. Just stating that the logic being used against it is flawed. While she probably doesn't get any sexual pleasure out of molesting other girls, she also doesn't necessarily do it for the sake of ruining Mikuru's image.
Tornadium
2009-09-13, 16:45
I'm not completely sold on Haruhi being bi-sexual or bi-"curious" either. It's certainly possible that she is, but it's also possible that Haruhi just likes touching Mikuru suggestively in order to get the girl into blushing, shy, ideal moe mascot mode.
... Mind you, I've played around with the idea of a Haruhi/Mikuru fanfic.
I highly doubt Haruhi is bi-sexual. She probably only stated that for attention. I do think she likes playing with Mikuru, after all she is the Moe Mascot of the SOS brigade. In Sighs she calls her "my toy" (Possible she didn't actually mean this and was just yelling back at kyon desperately trying to counter his words while she was confused and upset).
Times change, but it was Haruhi that began the fondling in front of Kyon, and the costume changes, and the one who wanted to do the photo shoot(s) with Mikuru. First time with just the maid outfit...look how happy Haruhi looks even while Kyon is trying to pull her off of Mikuru. The second time, she sends Kyon on a mission so that she can play with her toy without his interference (DVD extra photo shoot in December).
After Sighs Haruhi stops playing with Mikuru as much because she is scared of making Kyon angry and losing him again.
Haruhi loves her Moe Mascot but over time begins to mellow out and realise she can't abuse her like that.
Er... yeah, I'm not arguing in favor of HaruhixMikuru. Just stating that the logic being used against it is flawed. While she probably doesn't get any sexual pleasure out of molesting other girls, she also doesn't necessarily do it for the sake of ruining Mikuru's image.
Certainly up to a point i would argue she does it to ruin her image or get her away from Kyon. Whether that is the sole reason is up for debate.
I'd say groping the poor girl after abducting her is far worse, but that's just me. :heh:
The anime version of Mikuru's introduction to Hell first encounter with Haruhi is rather toned down.
In the Melancholy novel, Haruhi's well on her way to sticking her hand down Mikuru's skirt and getting to know her in the Biblical sense before Kyon stops her.
Tornadium
2009-09-14, 12:21
The anime version of Mikuru's introduction to Hell first encounter with Haruhi is rather toned down.
In the Melancholy novel, Haruhi's well on her way to sticking her hand down Mikuru's skirt and getting to know her in the Biblical sense before Kyon stops her.
There is quite a lot of cases so far in the anime where is it definately toned down. I guess it is to attempt to make her character more likeable or somthing...Which is sort of dumb because i loved her character in the novels. Maybe some people hated it.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-14, 13:05
In the case of that scene... I think it's because it goes a little too far for television. But yeah, that's actually what I was referring to. Of the things we know, that's probably the worst thing she's done to the poor girl. :heh:
Tornadium
2009-09-14, 13:09
In the case of that scene... I think it's because it goes a little too far for television. But yeah, that's actually what I was referring to. Of the things we know, that's probably the worst thing she's done to the poor girl. :heh:
Actually a lot of other Anime which have been aired on TV have done much worse and gotten away with it.
Must be being cautious or somthing.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-14, 13:11
Given how regularly Mikuru goes through that sort of thing within just the stories in the '06 airing, I'd say it would've been too much to leave the scene as it was. :heh:
Tornadium
2009-09-14, 13:28
Given how regularly Mikuru goes through that sort of thing within just the stories in the '06 airing, I'd say it would've been too much to leave the scene as it was. :heh:
Heh probably.
It's a pity really. I loved those scenes. I guess it's just trying to make Haruhi seem better all around so people don't rage at the end.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-14, 13:32
... I wonder what would happen if Kyon would, while feeling suicidal, yell "Haruhi is BI!" It's not like it'd be entirely untrue, given her description of what she'd be looking for in a relationship. :p
Archon_Wing
2009-09-14, 13:35
I don't think she'd care, since in the first episode she said she didn't care about things like gender in relationships as long it was interesting, if i remember it correctly. Which is consistent with her behavior. ;)
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-14, 13:36
That's actually what I was referring to when I said it wouldn't be entirely untrue. :heh:
Archon_Wing
2009-09-14, 13:39
Yea, so I don't think she'd have a reaction if Kyon yelled out she was Bi. ;p
... I wonder what would happen if Kyon would, while feeling suicidal, yell "Haruhi is BI!" It's not like it'd be entirely untrue, given her description of what she'd be looking for in a relationship. :p
She'd probably cross her arms over her chest, give Kyon a Look(tm) and say:
"Yeah? What about it?"
Then she'd give him an even more pointed look and glance oddly at Koizumi. :D
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-14, 13:49
I was actually meaning while they were in class. :heh:
*e* Of course, this really has nothing to do with Mikuru now...
Tornadium
2009-09-14, 14:23
I don't think she'd care, since in the first episode she said she didn't care about things like gender in relationships as long it was interesting, if i remember it correctly. Which is consistent with her behavior. ;)
Well from the way Haruhi acts towards Kyon i would say she isn't Bisexual. She probably only said "i don't care if it's a boy or a girl" for attention. She thinks if she widens the area of her search she has a better chance of finding someone out of the ordinary.
Certainly
By Book 9 there is NO WAY Haruhi is even remotely bisexual since she pretty much is devoted solely to Kyon at that point
Archon_Wing
2009-09-14, 14:42
She probably only said "i don't care if it's a boy or a girl" for attention. She thinks if she widens the area of her search she has a better chance of finding someone out of the ordinary.
I don't think she is necessarily bisexual either, only that it simply isn't an issue for her nor does she care what anyone thinks about it. As for her dealings with Mikuru, she's really just playing around... well that's what she thinks
Tornadium
2009-09-14, 15:11
I don't think she is necessarily bisexual either, only that it simply isn't an issue for her nor does she care what anyone thinks about it. As for her dealings with Mikuru, she's really just playing around... well that's what she thinks
Heh probably,
I doubt Haruhi would ever go for a girl. She would maybe have a friendly relationship with them but nothing more than that
CrowKenobi
2009-09-14, 19:27
Thinking about Koizumi's "speech" about Mikuru's role, when he got to the point of saying "Her mission is to get close to you" my thoughts turned to SZS (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SayonaraZetsubouSensei): Mikuru must be a "Honey Trap! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HoneyTrap)" :p :heh:
Goku OVA 1, btw :D
Tornadium
2009-09-15, 10:38
Thinking about Koizumi's "speech" about Mikuru's role, when he got to the point of saying "Her mission is to get close to you" my thoughts turned to SZS (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SayonaraZetsubouSensei): Mikuru must be a "Honey Trap! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HoneyTrap)" :p :heh:
Goku OVA 1, btw :D
From my PoV there is no way Mikuru is innocent. She is definately planning somthing. Hell i think all of the SOS Brigade are planning somthing against Haruhi and Kyon.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-15, 11:14
Meanwhile, Haruhi is planning against them all, and Kyon is caught in the crossfire. :p
Tornadium
2009-09-15, 12:13
Meanwhile, Haruhi is planning against them all, and Kyon is caught in the crossfire. :p
My bet is that it's going to be Haruhi Vs The SOS Brigade with Kyon caught in the middle.
Who will he side with!?
Honestly, I don't think Mikuru(small) is planning anything. Mikuru(BIG) on the other hand may be planning something. Their bosses must have a plan of some kind, or else why bother sending anyone back to do close, personal obserbations with Haruhi?
worldruined
2009-09-15, 12:56
My bet is that it's going to be Haruhi Vs The SOS Brigade with Kyon caught in the middle.
Who will he side with!?
Slider-tan!
My bet is that it's going to be Haruhi Vs The SOS Brigade with Kyon caught in the middle.
Who will he side with!?
Now that's a very interesting question, given that
Kyon's usefulness and value are directly related to the control he has over Haruhi, and the fact that:
He's the key to everything, and could end the whole universe if he want if he told Haruhi that "I am John Smith." Also, harming Kyon could have . . . interesting effects on Haruhi. Interesting as in being in the path of an F5 tornado is interesting. :heh:
If Kyon were ever forced to choose between the competing agendas of the Mexican standoff in a can SOS-dan and Haruhi, he will almost certainly choose Haruhi.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-15, 13:20
Or he could always take a third option...
Tornadium
2009-09-15, 13:24
Now that's a very interesting question, given that
Kyon's usefulness and value are directly related to the control he has over Haruhi, and the fact that:
He's the key to everything, and could end the whole universe if he want if he told Haruhi that "I am John Smith." Also, harming Kyon could have . . . interesting effects on Haruhi. Interesting as in being in the path of an F5 tornado is interesting. :heh:
If Kyon were ever forced to choose between the competing agendas of the Mexican standoff in a can SOS-dan and Haruhi, he will almost certainly choose Haruhi.
Maybe, I would hope he would side with Haruhi. It would seem so out of character for him to do otherwise. The reason i asked was that in Book 10 i think it is likely we are going to see some kind of choice Kyon has to make involving Haruhi, Sasaki and the SOS Brigade.
I just hope he doesn't abandon Haruhi in either timeline.
Or he could always take a third option...
Such as?
Such as?
You've already answered your own question.
Sasaki is being set up as Kyon's third option. The anti-SOS-dan seems to believe that he can transfer Haruhi's powers to Sasaki (or move them back to where they belong, depending on whose interpretation you buy.)
Tornadium
2009-09-15, 13:33
You've already answered your own question.
Sasaki is being set up as Kyon's third option. The anti-SOS-dan seems to believe that he can transfer Haruhi's powers to Sasaki (or move them back to where they belong, depending on whose interpretation you buy.)
Well from my perspective i was going for Either A. Haruhi or B. Not Haruhi (Which is basically bad all around if you think about it...Likely to be bad anyway).
So i sort of included Sasaki ending in the whole bad ending option
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-15, 13:33
Well, there's that possibility, as well as the possibility of either simply walking away from it all or trying to figure out a way to stop things.
*e* And with that post, I can now say that the "third option" would amusingly be the third choice here. :p
The Kyon option....do nothing, then when forced, find a simple mundane solution to the ending of the world.
Tornadium
2009-09-15, 13:36
Well, there's that possibility, as well as the possibility of either simply walking away from it all or trying to figure out a way to stop things.
*e* And with that post, I can now say that the "third option" would amusingly be the third choice here. :p
Well the way i see it is he has 2 Choices.
1. Stick by Haruhi
2. Go to Sasaki or turn on Haruhi with the SOS brigade or whatever.
The third option of walking away would be under option two above since that is abandoning Haruhi which would be covered by that. Although what do you mean by trying to find a way to stop things?
Just stop everything or ?
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-15, 13:39
Basically the last part of what Ithekro said. :heh:
Tornadium
2009-09-15, 13:41
The Kyon option....do nothing, then when forced, find a simple mundane solution to the ending of the world.
I fear to know what exactly Kyon would do. Sadly you are pretty much 100% accurate. How anyone can do things like Kyon with the same amount of effort (Basically Zero) i have no idea.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-15, 13:43
Kyon is the most powerful human in the universe... plus, under normal circumstances, he's got at least one reality warper backing him up. :heh:
Tornadium
2009-09-15, 13:46
Kyon is the most powerful human in the universe... plus, under normal circumstances, he's got at least one reality warper backing him up. :heh:
Heh true,
He basically does have God wrapped around his finger.
He's got time (or history) on his side...usually. Two reality warpers, and a guy with an orginization behind him. Plus other backup.
Heh true,
He basically does have God wrapped around his finger.
But he can't invoke God without all the fallout and the messes that would be made by invoking Her. :heh:
He does, however, have Jesus Nagato.
Tornadium
2009-09-15, 13:55
But he can't invoke God without all the fallout and the messes that would be made by invoking Her. :heh:
He does, however, have Jesus Nagato.
Yuki is the first like of Defence i think for the SOS Brigade.
Haruhi and Kyon are the last bastion and possible hope. If Nagato falters it's down to both of them.
It may be possible for a good outcome to come with Kyon invoking her if he can calm her enough (TMoHS Episode 6 anyone?)
He's got time (or history) on his side...usually. Two reality warpers, and a guy with an orginization behind him. Plus other backup.
That raises a very good point, Do you think the rest of the SOS brigade (Including
Young and old Mikuru) know what is going to happen?
Yuki is the first like of Defence i think for the SOS Brigade.
Haruhi and Kyon are the last bastion and possible hope. If Nagato falters it's down to both of them.
It may be possible for a good outcome to come with Kyon invoking her if he can calm her enough (TMoHS Episode 6 anyone?)
This would require Kyon completely shedding his denial about his feelings towards Haruhi, since he can't very well just kiss her again. He's going to have to raise the bar well above what he did at the end of Melancholy, and neither Kyon nor Haruhi seem like the sort of people who would be satisfied with a spot of awkward teenage sex. :heh:
That raises a very good point, Do you think the rest of the SOS brigade (Including Young and old Mikuru) know what is going to happen?
Little Mikuru is like a mushroom, kept in the dark and fed bullsh . . . manure. Big Mikuru, however, has warned him that he's got a big choice coming with deep ramifications.
Tornadium
2009-09-15, 14:08
This would require Kyon completely shedding his denial about his feelings towards Haruhi, since he can't very well just kiss her again. He's going to have to raise the bar well above what he did at the end of Melancholy, and neither Kyon nor Haruhi seem like the sort of people who would be satisfied with a spot of awkward teenage sex. :heh:
Well by Book 9 he is starting to come around to the idea. I agree there is still a way to go though. I don't see why sex needs to be brought into it. Just Kiss Haruhi tell her you love her and all will be well.
Little Mikuru is like a mushroom, kept in the dark and fed bullsh . . . manure. Big Mikuru, however, has warned him that he's got a big choice coming with deep ramifications.
Yea, I'm really curious about that myself. I really hope Kyon makes the right choice in the Canon path (We have no idea which is canon at this point right?)
In fact i can't even remember what the differences were between them.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-15, 19:23
... We're talking about Kyon here, now? :p
Ahh, the drifting of forum threads.
Just like how magnets drift apart.
GET BACK AWN TOPIC *remagnetises topic*
But yes, Lil' Asahina is kept in the dark about a lot of stuff.
Dr. Casey
2009-09-16, 17:52
i like mikuru she is nice
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-16, 18:00
I hear she tastes delicious. Haruhi and Nagato seem to enjoy nibbling on her, at any rate.
Tornadium
2009-09-17, 11:08
I hear she tastes delicious. Haruhi and Nagato seem to enjoy nibbling on her, at any rate.
Ear biting scene = cute.
Answer my question!
quigonkenny
2009-09-23, 23:03
That raises a very good point, Do you think the rest of the SOS brigade (Including Young and old Mikuru) know what is going to happen?
Finally a somewhat on-topic question.
Kyon: Depends upon whether you believe his narration is a live running commentary or a post-storyline retelling. There are arguments for both.
Haruhi: Hasn't a clue. Her subconscious, however, could be actively controlling nearly everything.
Yuki: Has a rough idea, I think, but is actively avoiding synchronizing with her future selves, so she's only open to seeing what she gets from her extranormal senses and her partially out-of-time existence. In other words, she has little warning of anything Haruhi might do.
Itsuki: His Organization has feelers anywhere (his discrediting of Mikuru—right after Mikuru secretly did the same to him—proved that, if nothing else), so they probably have an inkling of what the other organizations know, but not much more, unless their "army" of espers includes some precogs.
Mikuru(small): She knows what she has been told, which is at best vague and at worst misleading. The mushroom analogy is a good one, as she is kept in the dark about most things, starting with the lie that her time travel can't change history.
Mikuru(big): No doubt knows explicitly what got her to this point, since she already lived though it. One can assume that eveything has happened keikaku doori, since she's still around, but she's well aware that that could change.
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