View Full Version : The Character Discussion Thread of SOS団 Member: Itsuki Koizumi
CrowKenobi
2009-08-26, 06:07
The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things Itsuki Koizumi related.
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6083/koizumi06017tv.gif
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Triple_R
2009-08-26, 06:13
Itsuki Koizumi is arguably the most esoteric and mysterious of the SOS Brigade members, with Yuki Nagato being his principle competitor in those two areas. However, from a fan's perspective, there's far more novel focus on Nagato than there is on Koizumi, hence making him a bit more of a blank slate to me than Nagato is.
In some ways, I believe that Koizumi is meant to be the cheerful optimistic foil to Kyon's often exasperated pessimism and snark.
Also, I typically view Koizumi as the "coolest" of the canon male cast, and hence I tend to like him a fair bit.
That being said, he does strike me as the SOS Brigade member that's the most submissive towards Haruhi.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-26, 06:23
Koizumi is awesome, I don't care what anyone says. :heh:
Well, there really isn't much to say about Koizumi. He plays the role of mysterious transfer student and seems to be having fun with it.
As for liking or disliking him... I'm following Kyon on this one, I don't really care enough about him to try and think or learn anymore than what's given.
Oh, and here is by far his best shot IHMO.
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7420/koizumigold.png
It is exactly because he is the mysterious transfer student we have much to say about him. I mean, he is obviously lieing half of the time. Episode00 show us he (aparently) can't act, however, Lone Island II show us the oposite, as neither Kyon nor Haruhi could tell it was I a play. Even in the novels (where Kyons reasons to discover the whole thing are better explained) they only slip from Itsuki was long before the 'death', so, his acting during the play were perfect.
I agree with Triple when he says he is the most mysterious member of the brigade.
Oh, yeah, this shot is hilarious. =P
PP:
And fabulous animated gift too :p
OkamiNoKaze
2009-08-26, 09:56
I don't know from his info dump in Melancholy 5, I've gotten a serious Kowaru (from Evangelion) vibe from him
OkamiNoKaze
2009-08-26, 11:05
I don't think so, I thought this even before I started seeing people taking that as part of his character
People don't need to talk about it to you notice, you know? :heh:
Not saying his definitevelly 100% gay. However, he has some suspect gestures. Like when he land after the fight with the Shinjin and trows his hair (this gesture can be seen every new episode in the ending, btw). Also, the way he speaks. I've never seen the anime Eva, but is possible both sounds in a similar way.
That being said, he does strike me as the SOS Brigade member that's the most submissive towards Haruhi.
A thought just occurred to me: What if Itsuki isn't just going along with Haruhi's plans to keep her happy but rather the link the espers share with Haruhi influences them to think she has some good ideas? ... That idea kept making less sense as I wrote it out.
Also, there's no actual evidence that Koizumi is gay. He could just be acting. He's a very good actor, after all.
In Sighs, Koizumi suggests that a good deal of how he appears is just an act and that his real personality is far less pleasant. This doesn't directly say that he is straight, but it suggests that many of his mannerisms that seem like signs of homosexuality are just an act.
In Disappearance we get to see Koizumi without the acting requirements of being the mysterious transfer student. Alt-Koizumi seemed like a pretty normal guy if you ignore his willingness to spend time with Haruhi. I don't recall any of his odder mannerisms being present there.
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 12:19
A thought just occurred to me: What if Itsuki isn't just going along with Haruhi's plans to keep her happy but rather the link the espers share with Haruhi influences them to think she has some good ideas? ... That idea kept making less sense as I wrote it out.
No, it makes some sense to me. Beyond that, Itsuki perhaps tries to keep Haruhi happy just to make himself happy, as per that same link (i.e. if Haruhi's happy, the link gives him 'feedback happiness' of his own to feel because of it).
Koizumi has always struck me as the SOS Brigade member most afraid of Haruhi ever losing - like he has an uniquely strong emotional investment in her winning. Every time Kyon thinks twice about helping Haruhi in her latest game (be it baseball or Sagittarius III, or anything else), it's ultimately Koizumi who talks him into giving it his all in order for Haruhi to win.
Personally, I think that Koizumi exaggerates the impact that Haruhi losing would have. I don't think that Haruhi losing one game would cause the universe to come crashing down; I think it would cause a couple closed spaces to open up, maybe, but that's about it.
In a way, I sometimes think that Koizumi is holding Haruhi's emotional maturing back by refusing to ever let her lose.
Also, there's no actual evidence that Koizumi is gay.
There's no actual evidence that Koizumi is gay... in general. But the way that he treats Kyon... I'm sorry, but there's something there. There really is, imo. If Koizumi's acting was that good, why didn't it show up in Episode00? ;)
My own pet theory remains that Koizumi is straight... but due to his strong link with Haruhi, he feels the same attraction for Kyon that Haruhi feels.
freakonboard
2009-08-26, 12:21
I don't know from his info dump in Melancholy 5, I've gotten a serious Kowaru (from Evangelion) vibe from him
Both are gachihomo characters.
And no, I'm not saying they're definitely gay.
I like you theory, Sute. However, there is ome few instances on Sighs when Itsuki was not pleasde by Haruhi.
For his gayness. As Triple said, is more the way he acts to Kyon. There is some points that prooves he, at last, like womans (this don't mean he can't be bi, though). Hoever, there is some points where he really seens to be a treacted to Kyon?
First is Snow Mountain, obviously. At first, we thinks everyone was vissited for who they lust for. Only Itsuki's and Mikuru's visitors don't really match... unless we consider both as gay/bi.
The second was the prologue of Novel9, Itsuki was trying to explain Haruhi was jelous about him and Sasaki and give this speech:
"Because Suzumiya-san had always been in a state of loneliness throughout middle school, the phrase 'close friend' may have been quite a shock to her."
"Didn't she want it that way herself? Where she would be 'aloof from worldly affairs'?"
"There should still be a bit of shock. For example, if I have a friend of the opposite gender whom you do not know of suddenly appearing in front of you, how would you feel?"
"Do you really have one?"
I lifted my body outwards while asking that. Even if this guy has a girlfriend behind my back, it wouldn't be surprising at all.
Koizumi gave a bitter smile.
"This example is not very good. I should not use myself as an example. So if Asahina-san had a very close male friend in the past, and they are still rather close even till now?"
The exemple is obviously not good. This was the most gay moment of him, in my opinion, kinda wanting Kyon to see him as Haruhi seen Kyon.
However I agree with Triple pet theory. It fit very well and make these two exemple understandable.
Itsuki unconciously saw himself as Haruhi, and thus made that exemple.
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 12:58
I like you theory, Sute. However, there is ome few instances on Sighs when Itsuki was not pleasde by Haruhi.
In fairness, I don't think that anybody was particularly pleased with Haruhi in Sighs. :heh:
It's cool that you like my Itsuki "Straight-But-Gar-For-Kyon" theory. ;)
In fairness, I don't think that anybody was particularly pleased with Haruhi in Sighs. :heh:
True. Even her fans, like you and me, can't really like her in Sighs :heh:
It's cool that you like my Itsuki "Straight-But-Gar-For-Kyon" theory. ;)
I have also posted that somewhere, actually. And, I've read it from someone eles in this forum, some time ago...
17th_warrior
2009-08-26, 13:17
It's cool that you like my Itsuki "Straight-But-Gar-For-Kyon" theory. ;)
This theory rocks!!!!!!:love:
I didn;t like him at first,but when my mates told me that I'm acting a bit like a gay he became one of my fav characters.:heh:
Why Itsuki's good acting didn't show up in Ep. 00: He didn't want Haruhi to know about it. If Haruhi knew that he was a good actor and combined that with the right evidence at some point in the future, she may come to suspect him of genuinely being more than he appears.
I'm from the camp that thinks that who went to what room was all Nagato's doing, so I don't consider that to be an indicator of Koizumi's feelings.
Novel 9 Evidence: ... Okay, that looks pretty strong.
The theory that Koizumi is picking up on Haruhi's feelings for Kyon: Isn't this a pretty popular theory? I thought it had been around for a good long while.
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 14:26
Why Itsuki's good acting didn't show up in Ep. 00: He didn't want Haruhi to know about it. If Haruhi knew that he was a good actor and combined that with the right evidence at some point in the future, she may come to suspect him of genuinely being more than he appears.
... You must think that Koizumi is on an intellectual and careful detail level with L and Light Yagami. :heh:
I suppose that's possible, but he never struck me as that brilliant.
While I respect your viewpoint, I still think that the straight-but-gay-for-Kyon theory is more plausible than that.
The theory that Koizumi is picking up on Haruhi's feelings for Kyon: Isn't this a pretty popular theory? I thought it had been around for a good long while.
Well, in truth, I picked up on the theory during a debate a short time ago between Heatth, Kaisos, Rambo, and myself. It's certainly possible that the theory dates back a long time ago, when I wasn't on Anime Suki, and somebody that I don't even know originated it.
However, I didn't know that it was popular. I've only seen it brought up once (by somebody other than myself) since I've been posting here heavily back, around, two months ago.
Why Itsuki's good acting didn't show up in Ep. 00: He didn't want Haruhi to know about it. If Haruhi knew that he was a good actor and combined that with the right evidence at some point in the future, she may come to suspect him of genuinely being more than he appears.
Yeah, this make sense. Yu don't need to L level briliant to fake you acting skills. Also, Itsuki already stated she is kinda afraid of Haruhi, the last thing he wants is she discovering he lied to her for the wholle time.
I'm from the camp that thinks that who went to what room was all Nagato's doing, so I don't consider that to be an indicator of Koizumi's feelings.
Novel 9 Evidence: ... Okay, that looks pretty strong.
I actually agree with you about the Novel 5 thing. I even posted so when this matter was discussed in the spoiler thread. I was just pointing it out, the only strong point is that one from novel 9. Not really enough alone... but damn supicious.
The theory that Koizumi is picking up on Haruhi's feelings for Kyon: Isn't this a pretty popular theory? I thought it had been around for a good long while.
Well, in truth, I picked up on the theory during a debate a short time ago between Heatth, Kaisos, Rambo, and myself. It's certainly possible that the theory dates back a long time ago, when I wasn't on Anime Suki, and somebody that I don't even know originated it.
However, I didn't know that it was popular. I've only seen it brought up once (by somebody other than myself) since I've been posting here heavily back, around, two months ago.
Yeah, Rambo was the one I first saw posting it. I also don't remember t being popular tough, never see it anywhere else.
Even the Haruhi's WMG (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/SuzumiyaHaruhi) of TVtropes don't seen to have it, and they have a lot of weird theorys.
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 14:57
Yeah, this make sense. Yu don't need to L level briliant to fake you acting skills.
That in and of itself, no. But to pretend to be a bad actor just so that somebody else won't catch on that you're actually a good actor just so that this same somebody won't start to grow suspicious and start guessing at things...
That's either extreme paranoia on Itsuki's part, or meticulously planning out everything he does in a very L and Light Yagami way.
Also, where is this idea that Koizumi is a great actor coming from in the first place? What evidence is there for that? It strikes me as pure speculation.
I actually agree with you about the Novel 5 thing. I even posted so when this matter was discussed in the spoiler thread. I was just pointing it out, the only strong point is that one from novel 9. Not really enough alone... but damn supicious.
It's more than pure speculation, Heatth.
This idea that Koizumi is constantly putting on this great flamboyant act for Kyon and Haruhi, but then is so incredibly careful that when he actually acts in a movie he goes out of his way to deliberately degrade his acting ability just to put off possible suspicion... man, I'm not buying that at all. That's insane levels of facade-casting. It really is right up there with Light Yagami.
That page is seriously long.
Also, where is this idea that Koizumi is a great actor coming from in the first place? What evidence is there for that? It strikes me as pure speculation.
Lone Island Syndrome and some part of Sighs that I'm having trouble locating right now.
This idea that Koizumi is constantly putting on this great flamboyant act for Kyon and Haruhi, but then is so incredibly careful that when he actually acts in a movie he goes out of his way to deliberately degrade his acting ability just to put off possible suspicion... man, I'm not buying that at all. That's insane levels of facade-casting. It really is right up there with Light Yagami.
Consider that he (believes he) constantly faces the risk of an unstable god destroying the world. I believe an insane level of facade-casting is justified.
That in and of itself, no. But to pretend to be a bad actor just so that somebody else won't catch on that you're actually a good actor just so that this same somebody won't start to grow suspicious and start guessing at things...
That's either extreme paranoia on Itsuki's part, or meticulously planning out everything he does in a very L and Light Yagami way.
You have a point. I can see the organization being that paranoic, though. Entreteining Haruhi is Serious Business.
Also, where is this idea that Koizumi is a great actor coming from in the first place? What evidence is there for that? It strikes me as pure speculation.
Lone Island. No one noticed he was playing the wholle thing. Never said he is a great actor. But better then he showed in the movie, where it was really obvious he was acting. Also, you could say more or less his entire life is a act, yet, Haruhi don't noiced it. And he (almost) never make his true feeling slip behind his cherful mask. Not a great actor, but enough to hide his own emotions.
It's more than pure speculation, Heatth.
This idea that Koizumi is constantly putting on this great flamboyant act for Kyon and Haruhi, but then is so incredibly careful that when he actually acts in a movie he goes out of his way to deliberately degrade his acting ability just to put off possible suspicion... man, I'm not buying that at all. That's insane levels of facade-casting. It really is right up there with Light Yagami.
This... was not responding to the quote right? :heh: I was talking about his behaviour on novel 5 and 9, not about his possible chess maestry.
About he be constantly actng, it is not specuation. It ws on Charmet at First Sight LOVER, I believe, he adimits he is always acting and envy Kyon and Mikuru for not needing to.
Also, if it is true, I think the plan is not his, but of the Organization.
PP:
Consider that he (believes he) constantly faces the risk of an unstable god destroying the world. I believe an insane level of facade-casting is justified.
Good point. For Itsuki, and the organization as a wholle, Haruhi is pretty unstable and they afraid anything that might angry/bore/unplease her. He even told Kyon, in Day of Sagitarous, he envy Kyon for not being afraid Haruhi might destroy the world if they lose the game.
Simplicity
2009-08-26, 15:45
De-lurking because of the awesome character threads :)
Honestly the exchange in Novel 9 just reads to me as nothing more than attempt to get Kyon to understand Haruhi's train-of-thought regarding Sasaki. If one of my friends had a friend of the opposite gender who introduced herself as a "close friend" I'd think, "Hmm, maybe something went on between them."
Course Kyon doesn't get it because he doesn't give a damn about Koizumi and his past. http://i25.tinypic.com/2hp0rk6.gif So I took Itsuki's reaction to Kyon's lack of understanding as nothing more than irritation. I understand why people would see it as Koizumi "testing the waters" with Kyon though.
As for Itsuki as an actor, I think he is a good actor, as shown in Lone Island Syndrome. In Sigh I thought the bad acting came from a combination of pretty much nothing to go off of other than Haruhi's orders, no time to practice, and having other things to worry about, i.e. class play, the world possibly being permanently changed, etc. The conversation with Yuki was made up on the spot, right? So of course it would come off awkward.
De-lurking because of the awesome character threads :)
Yeah, they are awesome. Thanks Crow.
Honestly the exchange in Novel 9 just reads to me as nothing more than attempt to get Kyon to understand Haruhi's train-of-thought regarding Sasaki. If one of my friends had a friend of the opposite gender who introduced herself as a "close friend" I'd think, "Hmm, maybe something went on between them."
The point is, using he as an exemple don't make any sense. It wasn't only to show Haruhi thought there was something about then (Kyon probably knew that already, as every one thinks the same and he knows it). But to tell he about the jelously feeling. That is why he uses Mikuru just after, because he knows Kyon lusts her.
As for Itsuki as an actor, I think he is a good actor, as shown in Lone Island Syndrome. In Sigh I thought the bad acting came from a combination of pretty much nothing to go off of other than Haruhi's orders, no time to practice, and having other things to worry about, i.e. class play, the world possibly being permanently changed, etc. The conversation with Yuki was made up on the spot, right? So of course it would come off awkward.
Yeah, this is more simple and make sense.
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 16:01
*snip*
As for Itsuki as an actor, I think he is a good actor, as shown in Lone Island Syndrome. In Sigh I thought the bad acting came from a combination of pretty much nothing to go off of other than Haruhi's orders, no time to practice, and having other things to worry about, i.e. class play, the world possibly being permanently changed, etc. The conversation with Yuki was made up on the spot, right? So of course it would come off awkward.
This I can buy into a bit easier. Itsuki's bad acting was due to Haruhi's atrocious Directing. :D
I dislike the idea that all of Koizumi's actions towards Kyon is pure acting because, well, I tend to very much dislike highly pretentious characters, and if this is all acting, then Koizumi is a highly pretentious character. I'd rather not dislike him because he strikes me as a good person in general.
Oh... something else to keep in mind, though - there have been times when Koizumi has acted very chummy towards Kyon... and Haruhi wasn't there. No need for acting then, right? ;)
For example, when Koizumi dragged Kyon off to see a closed space, I got a distinct feeling that Koizumi wanted to show off in front of Kyon. I really did get that impression from him.
Oh... something else to keep in mind, though - there have been times when Koizumi has acted very chummy towards Kyon... and Haruhi wasn't there. No need for acting then, right? ;)
For example, when Koizumi dragged Kyon off to see a closed space, I got a distinct feeling that Koizumi wanted to show off in front of Kyon. I really did get that impression from him.
True. He even smile less when they are alone (btw, he usually acts more gay when they are alone :p). Well, Here where he said he is always pretending:"Don't you think it's about time that I take off this harmless looking mask and change this image that I don't even know when I created it for myself? It is after all very tiring trying to talk courteously to a classmate all the time."
If you feel so tired, then stop it already. I completely didn't feel like controlling his expression.
"That won't do. My present image fits perfectly with how Suzumiya-san would imagine me to be. I am quite an expert in understanding her mental conditions, after all,"
Koizumi sighed in an exaggerated way,
"On just this basis alone, I feel very envious of Asahina-san. She doesn't even need to pretend, she only needs to be herself,"
"Didn't you once say Asahina-san could be making up this appearance of hers as well?"
"Oh, did you actually believe what I said? If I can win your trust, then my hard work may have produced some fruit after all."
Just as pretentious as ever. It's nearly a year already, and his flamboyant way of speech still hasn't changed a bit. Even Nagato's heart has gone through some changes, but you're still as fake as ever. Asahina-san doesn't need to change, it is best that she remains the same for now. This is because I've met the other Asahina-san, and know that it's a pre-determined fact that she would grow both physically and mentally.
"If I were to take on a different appearance..."
Koizumi began to wipe faster,
"Then it would not be a good omen. Keeping the status-quo is my duty. I'm sure you wouldn't want to see me look serious."
"Yeah, I certainly wouldn't want to. Since you're always grinning idiotically all the time, you're ideally suited to stick closely around Haruhi and help her clean up her mess or plan stuff for her. I'm really looking forward to the mystery play in the snow mountain this time. That's more than enough, right?"
It is kinda anbiguous. Kyon's comments can be seen as Itsuki is aways pretending also is the first line from Itsuki. But is not hard read in another way, though.
Well, in the end, he is a 'mysterious transfer student' :heh:
PP:
Also, you too, Triple, edit Simplicity spoilers to be under the spiler tag. If we do not take care, we might angry teh mods. Andspoil the poor aime viewers.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-26, 17:23
... You must think that Koizumi is on an intellectual and careful detail level with L and Light Yagami. :heh:
I suppose that's possible, but he never struck me as that brilliant.
I'd say he's more on a "Lelouch" level, actually. While Light and L are certainly masters at what they do, Lelouch is capable of turning even negative scenarios to his favor.
Heck, he even managed to put on two completely separate personae, and at least once did so at the same time. Something not unlike Koizumi during the school festival.
... And no, I'm not just making the comparison because they're both voiced by JYB in their respective dubs. :heh:
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 17:35
I'd say he's more on a "Lelouch" level, actually. While Light and L are certainly masters at what they do, Lelouch is capable of turning even negative scenarios to his favor.
Lelouch totally screwed up the final two episodes of the original season anime. He...
1) Allowed his emotions to get the better of him.
2) Failed to make sure that his top soldier/mecha pilot was loyal to the core for him.
He would have failed miserably if Charles didn't like stupidly messing around so much.
Lelouch is a great character, but his competency is a bit over-rated. So is Koizumi's, it appears to me...
If Koizumi is all that, why hasn't he figured out Haruhi yet? Why hasn't he conceived of a method to keep her entertained into perpetuity?
Lelouch is a great character, but his competency is a bit over-rated. So is Koizumi's, it appears to me...
If Koizumi is all that, why hasn't he figured out Haruhi yet? Why hasn't he conceived of a method to keep her entertained into perpetuity?
I think it is you who are exaggerating what people think :p
See, that faking act in the movie might be too much, I agree. However, he is, by own admission acting full time to Haruhi and, yet, she haven't discovered yet. It make he, at last, a good actor (not great, or wonderful, but good).
He is also pretty competent, at last to follow Harui's weird orders, so he migh be competent in the Organization as well (not that competent, though)
Nothing to do with be able to keep Haruhi entertained perpetuity.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-26, 18:01
Lelouch totally screwed up the final two episodes of the original season anime. He...
1) Allowed his emotions to get the better of him.
2) Failed to make sure that his top soldier/mecha pilot was loyal to the core for him.
And Koizumi totally screwed up as well, did he not? I'm pretty sure being forced into writing mysteries for Haruhi to solve until she eventually gets bored of it was not something he intended.
He would have failed miserably if Charles didn't like stupidly messing around so much.
Actually there's another reason for that, but this isn't a Code Geass character discussion thread. :p
Lelouch is a great character, but his competency is a bit over-rated. So is Koizumi's, it appears to me...
... Why did you post something in agreement with my argument if you're trying to go against it? :heh:
If Koizumi is all that, why hasn't he figured out Haruhi yet? Why hasn't he conceived of a method to keep her entertained into perpetuity?
He has, it's just that Kyon doesn't want to go along with it.
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 18:10
First of all... do you honestly think that there's a Code Geass fan in existence, and posting/browsing on Anime Suki's Haruhi board, that doesn't know the end to Season 1 yet? I mean, it's all been English Dubbed even, right?
For anything in R2, I'd feel compelled to put up spoiler tags, but for Season 1?
And Koizumi totally screwed up as well, did he not? I'm pretty sure being forced into writing mysteries for Haruhi to solve until she eventually gets bored of it was not something he intended.
Actually there's another reason for that, but this isn't a Code Geass character discussion thread. :p
Yes... Charles had his reasons, but they proved rather costly in the end.
... Why did you post something in agreement with my argument if you're trying to go against it? :heh:
I mostly was going against the idea that Lelouch > Light & L. Koizumi just got caught into that with you equating him with Lelouch. So, I felt compelled to argue, more or less, that Lelouch & Koizumi are not > Light & L. Or, well, not Light anyway. L made some significant errors as well. Light was absolutely unreal in his battle with L, though.
He has, it's just that Kyon doesn't want to go along with it.
Honestly, I think it would take more than HaruhiKyon as a couple to keep Haruhi entertained. I really do.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-26, 18:20
First of all, I'm a bit skittish when it comes to spoilers of any anime within the past five years, even those that should be considered well known. Second, there's not even a full year between the initial airdates of the end of CG and the beginning of R2, so if you're going to say one's not okay, then the other shouldn't be either. (conversely, if one's okay, they both should be.)
Third... perhaps I could've made my initial argument a little better. I apologize for that. I was more interested in trying to prove Koizumi is more along the lines of Lelouch than the DN characters than I was in actually thinking the point through. :heh:
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 18:45
First of all, I'm a bit skittish when it comes to spoilers of any anime within the past five years, even those that should be considered well known. Second, there's not even a full year between the initial airdates of the end of CG and the beginning of R2, so if you're going to say one's not okay, then the other shouldn't be either. (conversely, if one's okay, they both should be.)
Well, it's just that we constantly make references to the Haruhi 2006 anime (only three years old), and nobody is saying anything about that when it comes to using spoiler tags, so...
Personally, if it's really popular, and it's English dubbed, I feel it's fair game for non-spoiler tag discussion. That's just my view, though.
I don't think that R2 has been English dubbed yet, but I stand to be corrected on that. I haven't bothered to check really, as my love of Code Geass went downhill big-time with the 2nd half of R2...
Third... perhaps I could've made my initial argument a little better. I apologize for that. I was more interested in trying to prove Koizumi is more along the lines of Lelouch than the DN characters than I was in actually thinking the point through. :heh:
You have nothing to apologize for, Kogetsu. :)
In fairness, Koizumi's acting (if you view it as that) is closer in style to Lelouch's acting than it is to L or Light's, yes, I'll agree with you there.
If anything, I got a bit too animated. Code Geass is one anime that really hits a nerve with me for various reasons... :heh:
The cliffhanger ending to Season 1 being one of them.
OkamiNoKaze
2009-08-26, 19:56
R2 had been dubbed and ran on Adult swim, not sure about the where the DVDs are though. In fact they've restared from the beginning a quite a while ago.
Triple_R
2009-08-26, 20:01
R2 had been dubbed and ran on Adult swim, not sure about the where the DVDs are though. In fact they've restared from the beginning a quite a while ago.
Thanks for the info. Wow... they ran through R2 pretty fast. I thought it was only about a year ago or so that the airing of the dub Code Geass began.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-26, 22:55
They were airing it two episodes at a time. They had to restart it a few times because BZ! couldn't keep up with the broadcast schedule.
And Haruhi is slightly different in this case, as that's the series this forum is for. If we were talking in the Code Geass forum, I'd be doing the same thing with 06 Haruhi. (But that's not likely to ever happen, as I never leave this one, and you said you don't really like the series. :heh:)
yezhanquan
2009-08-26, 23:07
Itsuki ala Lelouch or L/Light.... My, that's alot of names beginning with L.
I think at the start of the series, Itsuki is at best indifferent to the Brigade. But, as the story progresses, this indifference moves towards the "at worst" section. At best, he seems willing to stick with the Brigade.
quigonkenny
2009-08-27, 03:32
No one has suggested the most obvious (to me) reason for Itsuki acting the way he does around Kyon, one that some of you may have heard from me before, so I'll say it again.
He does it simply to annoy Kyon.
Why, you might ask? Any number of reasons. 1) Haruhi seems to enjoy giving Kyon a hard time and seeing him in distress, so more Kyon distress (esp. on behalf of a romantically unthreatening character) means happy Haruhi. 2) The specific manner of his annoyance keeps Kyon from knowing too much about him or asking too many questions about him, even when prompted to. 3) He's jealous of Haruhi's attraction to Kyon. And so on...
I do side with the idea that everything Itsuki does (not just regarding Kyon) is calculated toward a certain result. His admitted farcical personality hints at it. I don't know if it's on the "wheels within wheels" level of Light or L, though.
No one has suggested the most obvious (to me) reason for Itsuki acting the way he does around Kyon, one that some of you may have heard from me before, so I'll say it again.
He does it simply to annoy Kyon.
Well you have to keep in mind that the story is being told from Kyon's point of view. From the moment he met Koizumi, he really wasn't too fond of him... so all of Koizumi's actions are seen through "Kyon-shaded-glasses."
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-08-27, 04:18
And that wasn't really all that fair a judgment to begin with. If Koizumi were a girl, Kyon would've been a lot less antagonistic towards "her." Frankly, Koizumi is allowed to screw with Kyon whenever he wants in my book. :heh:
qwertyuiopz
2009-08-30, 15:06
i havent started 2nd season yet but hes my fav char
Takamura Mamoru
2009-08-30, 15:21
Koizumi is interesting because he's so shady. You simply don't know what's behind his facade. You don't know when he's serious or when he's trolling. You don't now why it seems like he's stalking Kyon. After 9 novels, you still basically don't know anything about him.
Of course, that just fits right, since he's the "mysterious transfer student". Of course he has to be shady. The only question is if he's doing that intentionally and if not, wether her realizes that he fits his role.
Sometimes it looks like he's just a normal guy under everything, though.
Volcanic
2009-08-30, 16:40
I myself believe Itsuki's "shady" personality comes from his experience of becoming an esper.
If Disappearance is any indication, if that hadn't happened, he would be a plain old normal guy.
His loyalty to Haruhi might be natural though. Something we don't know? :heh:
Kaisos Erranon
2009-08-30, 16:47
His loyalty to Haruhi might be natural though. Something we don't know? :heh:
I always figured he had feelings for her.
quigonkenny
2009-08-30, 17:00
If Disappearance is any indication, if that hadn't happened, he would be a plain old normal guy.
Take anything that happened in the Yukiverse with a large grain of salt. It was designed to be Yuki's perfect setting to hook up with Kyon, not a simple "world without powers". Thus it was designed around Yuki and Kyon. The changes made to the memories and personalities of Mikuru, Haruhi, and Itsuki were done to get them out of the way, and are not necessarily indicative of "life before Haruhi".
Take anything that happened in the Yukiverse with a large grain of salt. It was designed to be Yuki's perfect setting to hook up with Kyon, not a simple "world without powers". Thus it was designed around Yuki and Kyon. The changes made to the memories and personalities of Mikuru, Haruhi, and Itsuki were done to get them out of the way, and are not necessarily indicative of "life before Haruhi".
Wait, I missed something. While it might be true it was designed around Yuki and Kyon, I don't remember any change in personality. Every one was acting as always, but without being friends or supernatural. The sole exeption might be Ryouko.
worldruined
2009-09-02, 13:08
Conversation has dead-ended; let's try a different track.
We know little to nothing about Koizumi's background and family situation. In Sighs, the scene by the pond is described as being "near Koizumi-kun's place", but it's never specified whether it's his apartment alone or his family's. (And despite its close proximity, they head to Tsuruya's house afterward instead of his.) He himself has never mentioned anything, aside from the small mention in Melancholy that:
"I don't know what really happened three years ago. All I do know is, I suddenly realized I possessed paranormal powers one day three years ago. I was really scared; I didn't know what to do. Luckily for me, it wasn't long before the 'Organization' took me in, or I would've killed myself thinking something was wrong with my brain."
(The official translation from Little, Brown writes the phrase in bold above as "The Agency soon took me in and gave me guidance".)
I've seen a couple different suggestions with (as far as I know) no real support to back them up -- one, that Koizumi was orphaned at some point and has no other family, thus the Organization literally "adopting" him so to speak. Another is that the Organization kidnapped him once they realized what he was. Another possibility might be that his family became part of the Organization after that day three (four) years ago. Or maybe, if he does indeed have a family, they're completely unaware of his powers and his connection with a frighteningly powerful and manipulative secret society.
What do you think? Are there other possibilities? Koizumi suggests that gaining esper powers was akin to winning the lottery -- random, with no other prerequisites. But do you suppose that Haruhi (assuming the theory that Haruhi-is-god and thus is responsible for the creation of espers) could have leaned more towards a certain type of person than another? That is, could she have preferred a tragic backstory for her chosen espers (those who became espers were orphans or had really horrible childhoods or some other heart-rending history) or a completely normal one (everyone she chose was utterly normal, with typical family and typical interests, that just happened to have bizarreness thrust upon them)?
Obviously, until we learn more from Word of God, this is all just speculation, but I'm curious about other thoughts on the matter. :nod:
Jonbob0008
2009-09-02, 14:33
I pretty sure in one of the later stories he admits that he lives alone. He's never talked about his family, but from what I understand, it seem likely to me that they're still alive. Perhaps when he discovered his powers, his family was helpless to help deal with them until the organization came along and offered to help in exchange for him joining them.
Volcanic
2009-09-02, 16:16
Now this is a conversation topic I like
Koizumi's daily life would be interesting to get into. We've been to Yuki's apartment a couple times, and Mikuru is established to be from the future and thus living alone, but other than the mention above, we know nothing about Koizumi :heh:
Until that mention, I thought we'd have a story sometime where we went to his house and it was completely normal, and his parents were all "We're so happy he has someone coming over, that hasn't happened in three years!" xD
But yeah, Koizumi's so calm and collected he must have stayed with the Organization for at least a little while and learned to be...so shady.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-02, 16:25
Four years now. :heh:
I don't know if I'm allowed to, but I'd like to request something:
Could someone please write down Koizumi's rank in the SOS Brigade (Vice Commander/Leader) in Japanese for me? If possible in roman letters...
I've already searched for it, but I couldn'd find it anywhere... Thank you!
yankervitch
2009-09-08, 19:01
Not to confuse topics here, but Koizumi's description of figuring out that he was an esper is not entirely unlike the coming-out stories of several gay people.
As for the other theories about his family, going back to the idea that he's gay, it wouldn't be unheard of (although certainly a very sad story) for a family to cut off their gay children.
worldruined
2009-09-10, 23:48
I pretty sure in one of the later stories he admits that he lives alone.
Hmm, I don't remember him admitting that he lives alone, but then, maybe that's why he doesn't seem completely adverse to ending up with Shami-ni. A cat's company is better than nothing at all! I'd love it if someone could track down the source for me! :heehee:
(Okay, sidetracking question, which may depend on whether you lean more towards "Koizumi likes Haruhi" or "Koizumi likes Kyon" -- he seems a little embarrassed to admit that he named the cat after Shamisen. ["'I have named the cat as Shamisen the Second, Shami-ni in short, as I couldn't think of a better name.' With that puzzling excuse out of the way, Koizumi cleared his throat..."] Do you think he named Shami-ni because Haruhi named the original Shamisen or because Kyon now takes care of said original? I'd say it could also be just that he's not all that creative and doesn't want to admit it, but he did just come up with a mind-boggling murder mystery. Anyway, something to ponder. XD)
Something I'd forgotten in my original post is that in Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, one of Koizumi's wishes has to do with "family" -- the Baka-Tsuki novel translation uses "harmonious family", while the anime subs say "the safety of my family" (DB_L-E) and "the peace and prosperity of my family" (a.f.k). The manga adaption uses the same phrase as the a.f.k sub. At first remembrance, I thought this meant that yes, Koizumi must have family somewhere (involved in the Organization or not), but then I figured... if he was obeying Haruhi's orders about making wishes that could be granted 16 or 25 years in the future, those could be about his own future family, which is also kind of interesting to consider. (Koizumi wants to have kids?) Alternatively, it could also maybe mean a metaphorical "family", within the Organization? (Mori-san?)
He's never talked about his family, but from what I understand, it seem likely to me that they're still alive. Perhaps when he discovered his powers, his family was helpless to help deal with them until the organization came along and offered to help in exchange for him joining them.
Temporary custody, maybe? Or more like a boarding school of sorts? If they're alive, I wonder if he just doesn't like talking about it, if he's kept silenced by an NDA of sorts, or if it's just that no one's ever really asked him? (And before anyone says "Kyon doesn't care", Kyon does too care, in fact he's stated multiple times that he's actually pretty curious about the Organization and all that, but that he knows that if he asks and Koizumi doesn't want to or can't answer him, he'll just get the run-around. So he's resigned himself to waiting until someone offers the information.)
Koizumi's daily life would be interesting to get into. We've been to Yuki's apartment a couple times, and Mikuru is established to be from the future and thus living alone, but other than the mention above, we know nothing about Koizumi :heh:
I agree, it really is something I'd like to know more about. I just hope we don't have to wait for, say, The Awakening of Koizumi Itsuki: Episode 00 before we get it. XD
Until that mention, I thought we'd have a story sometime where we went to his house and it was completely normal, and his parents were all "We're so happy he has someone coming over, that hasn't happened in three years!" xD
His parents must think he's an absolute delinquent, staying out all hours of the night, disappearing randomly in large black taxis that always show up at exactly the right moment... I suppose he'd come up with an excuse for that (or the Organization would).
But yeah, Koizumi's so calm and collected he must have stayed with the Organization for at least a little while and learned to be...so shady.
Brainwashed? XD?
I honestly think there's something not quite right about him psychologically -- he's stated during one of his more serious talks with Kyon that even he's not sure when he started wearing his "mask". That seems to indicate that it probably didn't happen right when he transferred, because he would have remembered that. So it probably started before, but how long before is a mystery. Is it something he learned to do after the Organization scooped him up? Something he was started pre-Organization but post-esper powers, a kind of defense mechanism so that other people wouldn't think he was a complete freak?
Hm... I have to admit that I'm a little against the word "shady" to describe him. He, as much as Nagato and as much as Asahina-san, is still a puppet of his parent faction, so I think it's more that the Organization is shady rather than Koizumi, himself, being shady. A lot of what he does and says could be done and said on orders from his superiors, not necessarily because he wants to screw with Kyon's mind. It's true that he seems to have more freedom to work within those confines (he doesn't have to answer to any Data Overmind, and he's not a slave to maintaining the future), but he's nonetheless a subordinate, not a free agent.
(This brings up an interesting thought -- if and when his promise to Kyon about "standing by his side" and choosing the Brigade over the Organization needs to be fulfilled, just how is the Organization going to take that? If they're anywhere near as violent as Koizumi has hinted, it might not end well for him if he decides to defect. Not only would the Organization be losing their agent currently closest to Haruhi, they'd also be losing one of their prized espers. He's never been guaranteed the same protection the girls have (Haruhi is, you know, Haruhi; Kyon blackmailed Nagato's boss to keep her safe; assuming the future remains unchanged, (big) Asahina-san's existence would mean that nothing befalls her either), so of all of them to meet a Bad End, it might be him...)
Not to confuse topics here, but Koizumi's description of figuring out that he was an esper is not entirely unlike the coming-out stories of several gay people.
As for the other theories about his family, going back to the idea that he's gay, it wouldn't be unheard of (although certainly a very sad story) for a family to cut off their gay children.
That's... kind of an interesting thought? You have to figure, though, that Koizumi was, what, twelve-ish when he received his powers? (Give or take a year, depending on what you figure his current age to be. I don't know if it's ever explicitly stated. I've also read at least one rumor that I think called into question whether or not he's even the age he pretends to be; older or younger than a typical first year high schooler? Who knows!) Anyway, cutting off a twelve year old seems a little harsh, whether gay or esper or both. If he had been older, that'd be a little different, I think.
Edit · Yes, I tl;dr. Frequently. I'm allowed to do that in the Koizumi thread, right? :meh:
quigonkenny
2009-09-15, 00:07
(Okay, sidetracking question, which may depend on whether you lean more towards "Koizumi likes Haruhi" or "Koizumi likes Kyon" -- he seems a little embarrassed to admit that he named the cat after Shamisen. ["'I have named the cat as Shamisen the Second, Shami-ni in short, as I couldn't think of a better name.' With that puzzling excuse out of the way, Koizumi cleared his throat..."] Do you think he named Shami-ni because Haruhi named the original Shamisen or because Kyon now takes care of said original? I'd say it could also be just that he's not all that creative and doesn't want to admit it, but he did just come up with a mind-boggling murder mystery. Anyway, something to ponder. XD)
He named the cat Shami-ni because it was supposed to be a replacement for Shami-ichi. He's "embarrassed" I guess because he was too lazy/uncreative/rushed/whatever to think of a different name. Don't read too much into the story. That's always a danger with Haruhi. Most often when there's an obvious answer, that's it. It's when there is one "most likely" (but not quite "obvious") answer and several other plausible ones that you have to worry...
Brainwashed? XD?
I honestly think there's something not quite right about him psychologically -- he's stated during one of his more serious talks with Kyon that even he's not sure when he started wearing his "mask". That seems to indicate that it probably didn't happen right when he transferred, because he would have remembered that. So it probably started before, but how long before is a mystery. Is it something he learned to do after the Organization scooped him up? Something he was started pre-Organization but post-esper powers, a kind of defense mechanism so that other people wouldn't think he was a complete freak?
I always took Itsuki being "not sure when he started wearing his mask" as his typical martyr complex hyperbole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole). His sexuality may still be quite up in the air, but there's no question he's something of a drama queen...
Hm... I have to admit that I'm a little against the word "shady" to describe him. He, as much as Nagato and as much as Asahina-san, is still a puppet of his parent faction, so I think it's more that the Organization is shady rather than Koizumi, himself, being shady. A lot of what he does and says could be done and said on orders from his superiors, not necessarily because he wants to screw with Kyon's mind. It's true that he seems to have more freedom to work within those confines (he doesn't have to answer to any Data Overmind, and he's not a slave to maintaining the future), but he's nonetheless a subordinate, not a free agent.
(This brings up an interesting thought -- if and when his promise to Kyon about "standing by his side" and choosing the Brigade over the Organization needs to be fulfilled, just how is the Organization going to take that? If they're anywhere near as violent as Koizumi has hinted, it might not end well for him if he decides to defect. Not only would the Organization be losing their agent currently closest to Haruhi, they'd also be losing one of their prized espers. He's never been guaranteed the same protection the girls have (Haruhi is, you know, Haruhi; Kyon blackmailed Nagato's boss to keep her safe; assuming the future remains unchanged, (big) Asahina-san's existence would mean that nothing befalls her either), so of all of them to meet a Bad End, it might be him...)
Why do you assume his promise to Kyon wasn't suggested by his supervisors in the Organization? If I remember the context correctly, he told Kyon this after the events of Disappearance, where Kyon became closer to Yuki, and Melancholy of Asahina, where Kyon's already protective nature toward Mikuru got another boost. I know it's rather a cynical way to view Itsuki, but it makes sense to take anything that a character who willingly volunteers that his outward persona is a "mask" says about his loyalties with a large grain of salt.
Itsuki is, after all, the character most likely to willingly turn against Kyon should his superiors deem it necessary. Note that I don't suggest he is the one most likely to turn against him (although I do believe that, personally). Yuki is very obviously in love with Kyon, but if the Overmind decides it's time to cash that card, her will in the matter may be irrelevant. Similarly, Mikuru's superiors may eventually find Kyon's temporal influence too dangerous to allow, leaving Mikuru(either) the unhappy choice of betrayal versus non-existence. But Itsuki has as much as stated that he personally resents Kyon's relationship with Haruhi. Should the situation arise where he has the chance to remove Kyon and elevate himself without endangering his personal status-quo, do you really think he wouldn't take it? That's a bit shady, no?
Edit · Yes, I tl;dr. Frequently. I'm allowed to do that in the Koizumi thread, right? :meh:
It's more appropriate here than probably anywhere else on the 'net... ^_^
Dr. Casey
2009-09-16, 18:01
itsuki has brown hair
Uhm. Thanks for the very obvious statement.
TakariCritic
2009-09-20, 09:09
Personally, my interpretation of Koizumi makes him the most stressed member of the SOS Brigade, even moreso than Mikuru and Kyon.
First of all, he has to handle everything the SOS Brigade does, as well as normal school life. On top of that, HE masterminded the mystery vacations, as well as the shadow student council. as well as handling the closed spaces.
And now for the behind the scenes workings of the Organization itself. We know they have power and influence, and Koizumi has admitted to Kyon (in Sighs) that there have been many infights and wars amoung their members. I beleive it is entirely possible that the Organization had no intention of placing Koizumi in the SOS Brigade, but rather, Itsuki transfered to North High to save himself from any attacks against him. After all, once Haruhi took interest in him, that was it. No Esper is going to touch him in fear of Haruhi's retaliation. Didn't Koizumi explain that "I didn't intend to transfer so suddenly, but circumstances have changed." Koizumi might have placed himself in North High without Organization consent, and thus ensured his own safety.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-09-20, 17:11
That is an interesting theory. After all, while Nagato's position could be argued, Mikuru didn't seem like she was supposed to be found by Haruhi. :heh:
That is an interesting theory. After all, while Nagato's position could be argued, Mikuru didn't seem like she was supposed to be found by Haruhi. :heh:
Mikuru didn't thinks she was suppose to. However, her bosses most likely did. She(Big) probably just told then, anyway. Actually, the Organization are the only ones who have no means to know what is going to happen in the future.
quigonkenny
2009-09-24, 23:06
Actually, the Organization are the only ones who have no means to know what is going to happen in the future.
That's debatable.
Over the course of the series (specifically in Charmed at First Sight LOVER) we've seen at least one esper whose powers were not closed space entering and turning into a bright red ball of light, and one of the more popular speculations of Kyoko's esper ability (Volume 9) is illusion or mind control. Not much of a stretch to assume there might be espers out there with precognitive abilities.
Not to mention Itsuki always seems to be one of the first to find out about everything happening. Remember how in Sigh he showed up to discredit Mikuru while her own words were still ringing in Kyon's ears.
That's debatable.
Over the course of the series (specifically in Charmed at First Sight LOVER) we've seen at least one esper whose powers were not closed space entering and turning into a bright red ball of light, and one of the more popular speculations of Kyoko's esper ability (Volume 9) is illusion or mind control. Not much of a stretch to assume there might be espers out there with precognitive abilities.
Not to mention Itsuki always seems to be one of the first to find out about everything happening. Remember how in Sigh he showed up to discredit Mikuru while her own words were still ringing in Kyon's ears.
Can you say any other exemple?
Taht two don't count. Nakagawa is acknowledged as not the same as the ESPers from the organization. The same for Kyoko, besides what you said is just speculation.
For all we know, they have no means to know the future. Itsuki [/I]could[/I] be lying, obviously. However, this is just speculation.
For Itsuki knowing everything. He usually get it aftr the hing happening. I don't remember any time it seen as he, or a mate, know what is going to happen. Sighs is a good exemple, he only find about the doves in the next day.
quigonkenny
2009-09-26, 02:59
Can you say any other exemple?
Taht two don't count. Nakagawa is acknowledged as not the same as the ESPers from the organization. The same for Kyoko, besides what you said is just speculation.
For all we know, they have no means to know the future. Itsuki [/I]could[/I] be lying, obviously. However, this is just speculation.
For Itsuki knowing everything. He usually get it aftr the hing happening. I don't remember any time it seen as he, or a mate, know what is going to happen. Sighs is a good exemple, he only find about the doves in the next day.
Of course it's speculation. That's the point. We don't know anything about the Organization, or even what constitutes an esper, much less what the Organization's "hiring requirements" are. They are by far the group we know the least about.
Of course it's speculation. That's the point. We don't know anything about the Organization, or even what constitutes an esper, much less what the Organization's "hiring requirements" are. They are by far the group we know the least about.
I disagree. That "honor" goes to the Time-Travelers to me. We know 'two' agents who kinda tell oposite things (and, to make it worse, they are both the same person). The one who aparently knows more don't talk too much.
Anyway, just pointing something purelly based in speculation can't really be used as an argumentThe only other kind of ESPer we know is not really an 'ESPer' from the organization. Even Itsuki labeled him as something kinda different.
For all we know, there is no different kind of power in the ESPer of the Organization. Unless Itsuki is lieing. While this is a big possibility, we can't base a discussion on it, since it is kinda pointless(he can lie about anything, after all).
Well, what I can agree is what you said might be a possibility. But discussing it is impossible, cause it has to assume our only source of information is untruthful.
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