The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 13]

[Pellissier]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Suzumiya Haruhi (2009), Episode 13.

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[M.Marangio]

Here are the 2chan threads: -deleted-

[CrowKenobi]

No open! That means something BIG is going to happen! :D

[Ice Block]

RE: Classified Information

I am NOT talking about Yuki easily bending that fence. :heh:

[Triple_R]

Here are the 2chan threads:
http://dec.2chan.net/24/res/4128875.htm
http://dec.2chan.net/24/res/4128873.htm


Judging from some of the small screenshots provided on that thread...



1) This is going to have some rather hot Mikuru shots.

2) The artwork looks simply FANTASTIC.

3) No punches are being pulled. In fact, it looks like they're really going all out with Haruhi vs. Kyon in this episode.

4) It looks really intense in general. This is going to be a GREAT episode. I can already feel it!

[Peanutbutter003]

They sacrificed the OP in this one?!? I'm stunned. :heh:

EDIT: Brilliant! Damn, that was easily the most awesome scene this rerun.

[Apache Thunder]

Isn't it a little early for the poll to be open? :P

[SidVicious]

The scene was awesome. :D

[Sute443]

Am I the only one who was disappointed with that scene? Seemed like both the bad and good portions were interrupted way too soon.

[Xiomay]

Even though I didn't understand what they were saying (:heh:), I have to say that this is the best episode thus far. I was really afraid that *the* scene was going to be censored since some people kept on saying it might, but I know if they did, it wouldn't have the impact that it did.

Great BGM through out from what I saw, really helped set an atmosphere that the novel just didn't do for me. Sadly I had to cut my viewing short since I have class, but I am definitely satisfied, to say the least, on how the episode turned out. Can't wait for the subs so I can finish up! :D

[Heminga13]

Epic episodes of the longer arcs seems to throw away the OP or ED for some reason...

[baltakatei]

They *did* include the spiked milk.

Relatively high amounts of plot and action in this episode. Haruhi didn't really abuse Mikuru physically though. She barely tapped her on the head.

And unfortunately, Haruhi doesn't have enough hair for a ponytail yet.

[Roger Rambo]

Wait, did they actually get Mikuru drunk here? (http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/17/1251993243236.jpg)

I thought there was some broad cast rule against that.

[Peanutbutter003]

Lol at cherry blossoms and two exasperated guys. :heh:

[Takamura Mamoru]

IS KYON GONNA HAVE TO CHOKE A BITCH?

Holy wow, nice art this time. Really Season 1-like.

[haruhi.ism]

EPIC.

one of the best episodes yet.

[TakariCritic]

Even though *the* scene was brilliantly done, I did notice they toned down how hard Haruhi was smacking the back of Mikuru's head. And she also had a sympathetic look on her face. In the novels, Haruhi was angry, and slamming on the back of poor Mikuru's head.

[wittyusername]

This episode was so incredibly awesome. Especially that scene. The music and the voice acting and the animation all just kicked ass. And Haruhi's almost-ponytail...it was so close. If only Kyon had walked into the clubroom thirty seconds later. But then again, surprised Haruhi was pretty cute, if you forget how she was being an abusive bitch just a while before.

The end of the episode frustrated me, because I don't want to wait another week just to see more Shamisen. That cat is the best ever.

[Jonbob0008]

Even though *the* scene was brilliantly done, I did notice they toned down how hard Haruhi was smacking the back of Mikuru's head. And she also had a sympathetic look on her face. In the novels, Haruhi was angry, and slamming on the back of poor Mikuru's head.

I guess I'll have to watch it when I can. I'm hoping it doesn't looked too toned down. It loses its impact a bit if it doesn't look like Miruru was being abused.

[CrowKenobi]

Even though *the* scene was brilliantly done, I did notice they toned down how hard Haruhi was smacking the back of Mikuru's head. And she also had a sympathetic look on her face. In the novels, Haruhi was angry, and slamming on the back of poor Mikuru's head.And here we were worrying that they were going to tone down or even take out how Mikuru gets drunk. :D

The impression I got from the novel was that Haruhi was slapping Mikuru with her hand, not the megaphone...

EDIT: Johnbob: Haruhi doesn't have to do much to Mikuru for Kyon to feel that she's abusing her! :p

[Ice Block]

Screw rules. Not expecting these guys to stick to them after the whole E8 phenomenon...

Anyway, this ep gets a 10/10. The massive amount tension was handled pretty well all around, especially at the mansion. Also lots of Koizumi exposition. Other things to watch out for:

Impressive water reflections
White doves (?)
Cherry blossoms in fall
Shamisen next ep!

[TakariCritic]

Screw rules.

You have money?

[Ice Block]

You have money?
Hm? I don't get it... :heh:

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

No, but I think Ice Block may have green hair...

[Simplicity]

Even though *the* scene was brilliantly done, I did notice they toned down how hard Haruhi was smacking the back of Mikuru's head. And she also had a sympathetic look on her face. In the novels, Haruhi was angry, and slamming on the back of poor Mikuru's head.

Yeah I also thought that the seemed to tone down Haruhi hitting Mikuru. The scene loses some of its bite to me. I was hoping that they would go all out, at the moment it kinda feels like Kyon overreacted. Maybe my thoughts will change after I watch the subs.

Feeling pretty giddy from the quality of the artwork in this episode. Hope it stays for the final episode of Sigh!

[Ithekro]

Interesting mix going on.

Part A you have Yuki doing stuff plus Mikuru being over her head

Part B you have the main scene...In another instance, drunk Mikuru might be funny as hell.

Part C You have Haruhi mainly.

So each girl gets a moment or two to show off. And of course Tsuruya.

[Jonbob0008]

Hm? I don't get it... :heh:

You haven't watched Yugioh: The Abridged Series, have you?

[TakariCritic]

Hm? I don't get it... :heh:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle2rgn9vunopna
8GC_ylRHtZs

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

You haven't watched Yugioh: The Abridged Series, have you?

Or frequented TV Tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle2rgn9vunopna?from=Main.ScrewTheRulesIHaveMon ey)...

[silvita]

kaiba has a habit of saying "screw the rules i have money!" Techencily even in the normal series but not stright up. I do think princess in PPGZ actually whent so far to actually say it. I don't remember

[Game8910]

best episode, just brilliant all my 10/10s r belong to this.

I dont know about the rest but Sighs has truly healed the wounds of Endless Eight. Those who still bitch about the show being horrible are just bitter

[typhonsentra]

By the time stamps in the 2ch thread... did this episode run long? It sure covered quite a bit of ground.

[Game8910]

The OP was skipped so we at least got 1:30 of more material than usual, feels good man

[Ice Block]

Ahhh... Thanks for reminding. Managed to gloss over that trope a few months ago (already forgot about it), but I never thought it would randomly pop up here. :heh:

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

This is Haruhi. Tropes pop up all the time. :p

Heck, given the fact that Tsuruya has both money and green hair(a one-time flashback joke), I'm surprised it doesn't pop up more often. :heh:

[Ice Block]

Heh, now I'm more surprised that this wasn't mentioned back when people were bringing up the Rule of Three. :p

[Sir Jeeves]

I bet the subtitles directly after The Revenge of Mikuru Beam will be a hilarious read.

[bayoab]

I thought there was some broad cast rule against that.There is definitely no rule in Japan against showing the drinking of alcohol when Haruhi airs. Plenty of other shows show people drinking.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Mikuru's a teenager, though... that's what everyone was worrying about. :heh:

[Kaisos Erranon]

They skipped the "SOS Brigade gets smashed" scene in Lone Island, so everyone was worried they'd skip it here too.

[Simplicity]

Well the underage drinking in this scene didn't exactly result in having a good 'ole time like the novel version of Lone Island syndrome. It's shown that it's very bad to spike someone's drink, just look at Kyon's reaction. So I'm not surpised they kept (...well if, since I can't say for sure without the subs) that part of the scene in tact.

[Jonbob0008]

What I never understood about that scene was how Mikuru never noticed that their was tequila in her drink. If you've ever mixed tequila (or any alcoholic beverage with significant alcoholic content) you'd know that even if you water it down with whatever they were drinking that you'd still likely taste it. I'd find it hard to believe that Mikuru wouldn't have gone and said "My drink tastes funny" or something along thoses lines.

[Ithekro]

Unless they don't have milk or whatever it was in the future.....If she's never tasted whatever it is Tsuruya served, how could she know it tasted funny?

[Xiomay]

This scene was amazing, although I do agree that I expected Haruhi to act more violent towards Mikuru, but underage drinking AND harsh abuse, probably would have been pushing it a bit too much, especially considering that even Kyon was on his last nerve from decking Haruhi.

I'd find it hard to believe that Mikuru wouldn't have gone and said "My drink tastes funny" or something along thoses lines.

Same here =/

But nope, she just gulped it all down without even flinching. And by the way, what were the drinks given to everybody? It looked like milk to me.

[Triple_R]

I personally don't see what would be the problem if the drink given to Mikuru simply contained some sort of sleeping pill dissolved into it instead of mixed tequila.

Actually, to me, it's more important that Haruhi's degree of abuse of Mikuru feel right (not too excessive, but not too mild either) as opposed to what, ultimately, puts Mikuru in a drowsy and tipsy-turvy state.

Mind you, I say this with out seeing the episode yet, so I can't comment on how effectively the episode conveys these aspects of the scene in question.

[Daniel Lind]

So that was amazake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazake) Mikuru was drunk with.
Oh the adaptations. Tequila, huh! Nyoro~

Or... Was it amazake in novels?
Because they give this stuff to kids, even, that's not your Lone Island alcohol party.
(I guess ingridients vary though)

Anyway, brilliant episode. Completely as expected.
Kind of sad that we only have one more to go...

[Triple_R]

So that was amazake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazake) Mikuru was drunk with.
Oh the adaptations. Tequila, huh! Nyoro~

Going by your link there, that sounds quite a bit weaker than Tequila. :heh:
Pretty funny if this is all it takes to get the SOS Brigade drunk, lol.

[Daniel Lind]

Going by your link there, that sounds quite a bit weaker than Tequila.
Yep. I looked this up, it's tequila in the original japanese novel text.
Censorship ahoooooooy!

[Triple_R]

Yep. I looked this up, it's tequila in the original japanese novel text.
Censorship ahoooooooy!

I don't know what to think about this change.

On the one hand, it makes it less of a deal that Mikuru gulped it down so easily. On the other hand, it's pretty sad that one glass of this gets her drunk... :heh:

[Kaisos Erranon]

Mikuru has zero tolerance... she passes out after, like, two glasses of wine... and honestly, they are not going to get away with giving her tequila on broadcast television.

[Daniel Lind]

On the other hand, it's pretty sad that one glass of this gets her drunk...
Moreover, that was juice+amazake, not just amazake alone.

I wonder if they will go and edit the line for the DVD.

[Toonleap]

Worked so hard today that I almost forgot...

Late post (http://www.cartoonleap.com/2009/09/03/haruhi-second-season-episode-23-an-almost-true-hollywood-story/) with screenshots...oh well...

Great episode....I wonder what could have happened if Itsuki was not there to stop Kyon? An scary thought.

[Roger Rambo]

Great episode....I wonder what could have happened if Itsuki was not there to stop Kyon? An scary thought.
The bad end.

[Triple_R]

Worked so hard today that I almost forgot...

Late post (http://www.cartoonleap.com/2009/09/03/haruhi-second-season-episode-23-an-almost-true-hollywood-story/) with screenshots...oh well...

Great episode....I wonder what could have happened if Itsuki was not there to stop Kyon? An scary thought.

Nice episode review, by the way... especially since you're doing it off of the raw, wow. Your screenshot selection is really nice.

Anyway... I can't really blame Kyon for snapping here. Presuming he cares about Mikuru even half as much as his narration would have you believe, there had to eventually come a point when Haruhi would cross the line with him, when it came to her treatment of Mikuru. In a way, I'm glad Kyon at least has enough testicular fortitude to not stand idly by while a girl he cares about gets constantly mistreated.

[Toonleap]

Nice episode review, by the way... especially since you're doing it off of the raw, wow. Your screenshot selection is really nice.

Anyway... I can't really blame Kyon for snapping here. Presuming he cares about Mikuru even half as much as his narration would have you believe, there had to eventually come a point when Haruhi would cross the line with him, when it came to her treatment of Mikuru. In a way, I'm glad Kyon at least has enough testicular fortitude to not stand idly by while a girl he cares about gets constantly mistreated.

Thanks for your comments. Yeah, it was time for Kyon to do something...Glad Itsuki was there...By the way, come to the site and take the poll.... :D

Lets see what people think about punching Haruhi...:twitch:

[Triple_R]

Thanks for your comments. Yeah, it was time for Kyon to do something...Glad Itsuki was there...By the way, come to the site and take the poll.... :D

Lets see what people think about punching Haruhi...:twitch:

At my height and weight, I would never punch Haruhi... it would be like child abuse. :heh: Mind you, in fairness, she'd probably be too slippery for me anyway, lol.

In all seriousness, I'm kind of old-fashioned in that I don't think that a guy should hit a girl except in necessary self-defense... although Kyon's situation is a tricky one (do you hit one girl to protect another?).

[Toonleap]

At my height and weight, I would never punch Haruhi... it would be like child abuse. :heh: Mind you, in fairness, she'd probably be too slippery for me anyway, lol.

In all seriousness, I'm kind of old-fashioned in that I don't think that a guy should hit a girl except in necessary self-defense... although Kyon's situation is a tricky one (do you hit one girl to protect another?).

I can see some debate on this one...Probably a slap would do it, but Kyon was willing to do something more there....

Personally, I wouldnt dare to hit a girl...That's bad....:upset:

[ReneeBurossamu]

Awesome. I watched, and the animation quality was great, just like everyone is saying. It's very season 1-ish, and by far the best that I've seen from these new episodes.
The tension was very nice here too. But I feel like they completely just "undertoned" Haruhi's meanness.

It was awesome that Kyon grew balls this time around. It wasn't really that awesome that Koizumi was around to stop it. Also, this makes me wonder how strong Koizumi really is, considering that he could stop Kyon from pulling his whole arm out of his grip. Hmmm.
... I would've punched Haruhi. I'm a girl though, so...

[DJ Trouble]

Also, this makes me wonder how strong Koizumi really is, considering that he could stop Kyon from pulling his whole arm out of his grip. Hmmm.
There's also the fact that Kyon seemed to be struggling quite a bit, while Koizumi wasn't even trying.

I was disappointed with the lack of violence from Haruhi. Kyon snapping at her felt uncalled for. Stopping her wasn't out of place, but his level of anger didn't match the provocation, so it felt really off to me. Oh well, I knew it would happen.

[Heminga13]

I think Kyon was more pissed about realizing what they did with Mikuru's drink. Whatever Haruhi said after that set him off.

[Roger Rambo]

So they didn't have Haruhi bash Mikuru on the back of her head with her hands?

Shame. Seems like they did decide to tone it down.

[zriL]

There's also the fact that Kyon seemed to be struggling quite a bit, while Koizumi wasn't even trying.

I was disappointed with the lack of violence from Haruhi. Kyon snapping at her felt uncalled for. Stopping her wasn't out of place, but his level of anger didn't match the provocation, so it felt really off to me. Oh well, I knew it would happen.

The violence is more in what haruhi says. If I remember well, she says that mikuru is her toy. And I've just reread the novel, it is never mentionned that she hit her with her hands. Moreover, the scene actually looks weaker in the novel.

[Solachinx]

The thing in the novel about Haruhi hitting Mikuru in the novel could've been a case of inaccurate narration because of an existing bias between Kyon and Mikuru; look at Boredom (in the anime version, at least): Mikuru barely gets tapped by the baseball in one scene and Kyon's willing to let her sit out the rest of the game and even goes as far to say the she was hurt by the baseball (although, I suppose, that if Mikuru had stayed out there, she probably would've gotten hurt). This and some other examples of Kyon's little remarks here and there (like the thing in BLR about how it's not ok for Haruhi to knock him unconscious, but if Mikuru does it it's perfectly fine) definitely show that he has a strong bias towards Mikuru, and that this warps the narration.

Even though this has been stated loads of times before, I'd like to end this with an analogy I told my friend one day: If Haruhi were to make a shit, it would just be a POS; however, if Mikuru were to make a shit, it would be the best thing since Paul McCartney sang a song with Michael Jackson. A little gross, but you get my drift.

[GMT]

There's also the fact that Kyon seemed to be struggling quite a bit, while Koizumi wasn't even trying.

I was disappointed with the lack of violence from Haruhi. Kyon snapping at her felt uncalled for. Stopping her wasn't out of place, but his level of anger didn't match the provocation, so it felt really off to me. Oh well, I knew it would happen.
Think of it this way. All of The Passion of Mikuru Asahina Sighs has revolved around Haruhi tormenting/molesting/cos-raping Mikuru and making unreasonable requests of Kyon and the SOS-dan. His level of barely-contained RAGE!!11 has been growing through the arc. It bubbled to the surface last episode, but Kyon was able to hold it back short of knocking Haruhi into next week. This clearly didn't do anything to ease the RAGE!!!11 and it continued to build into today's episode, where Haruhi goes from tormenting/molesting/cos-raping Mikuru to outright slipping her drugs (booze) so she could film Koizumi 'date-raping' her, sending him from mere RAGE!!!11 to UNSTOPPABLE (were it not for Koizumi apparently spending his spare time in the gym) RAGE OF BRUTAL BRUTALITY!!!!

[Jonbob0008]

Just watched the RAW, and I must say that it was awesome. I can't wait for the subs.

And I couldn't believe how close to the original season this episode was. At many times, it was indistinguishable. I hope it stays that way from now on.

Well, I know it's a good episode when my hearts racing like crazy. Definitely going to give it a 10 after I watch the subs.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Epic, epic episode. I'll wait for subs before rating it 10/10, however.

Preliminary thoughts:

-Every single scene with Tsuruya laughing has the really dark BGM. It makes her look really evil.

-Poor Kunikida's only purpose in life is to hold up badly-drawn, poorly-thought-out diagrams while Haruhi points.

-DATE RAAAAAAAAAPE. Drunk Mikuru reminds me of Drunk Nagisa, which is hilarious.

-Koizumi is ridiculously fast and strong. Not only was he able to hold Raaaeg-Kyon back, he moved VERY quickly to intercept him. Epic BGM there, by the way.

-lolponytail. lolmegalomania.

- WOW EVERYONE LOOK AT THE CHERRY BLOSSOMS WE NEED A CAT. ADHD at its finest.

Best of the new episodes so far, easily. Though next week has the cat, so...

[Triple_R]

There's also the fact that Kyon seemed to be struggling quite a bit, while Koizumi wasn't even trying.


Perhaps Koizumi's fabulousness gives him superstrength! :D :heh:

Koizumi's grip vs. Captain Falcon trying to throw a Falcon Punch... would it have saved Black Shadow, I wonder? ;)


Think of it this way. All of The Passion of Mikuru Asahina Sighs has revolved around Haruhi tormenting/molesting/cos-raping Mikuru and making unreasonable requests of Kyon and the SOS-dan. His level of barely-contained RAGE!!11 has been growing through the arc. It bubbled to the surface last episode, but Kyon was able to hold it back short of knocking Haruhi into next week. This clearly didn't do anything to ease the RAGE!!!11 and it continued to build into today's episode, where Haruhi goes from tormenting/molesting/cos-raping Mikuru to outright slipping her drugs (booze) so she could film Koizumi 'date-raping' her, sending him from mere RAGE!!!11 to UNSTOPPABLE (were it not for Koizumi apparently spending his spare time in the gym) RAGE OF BRUTAL BRUTALITY!!!!

That was hilarious, as always, GMT. :heh:

Great satirical points.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Forgot to mention Kyon's HANASE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qH9Jm8L94I) this episode.

I hope someone makes a Haruhi version... (Kyon-kuuuun! HANASE!)

[Mr. Turnabout]

hard Haruhi was smacking the back of Mikuru's head. And she also had a sympathetic look on her face. In the novels, Haruhi was angry, and slamming on the back of poor Mikuru's head.

Remember, the stories ARE being told from Kyon's point of view. I mean, I would say alot of the same things if I saw a pretty girl getting smacked. (Even if it was just a little.)

Still, I loved the way Mikuru was acting after she drank the milk.
I do agree that some of the scenes were kinda dimmed down, it was still a very good episode about the rest in this story arc.

[Mecha_Trueno]

Dammit! I wanted to see Shamisen this week!:(

Even though they changed the content of the drink, at least the BGM kept that scene intense:D

Btw, how come no one has questioned how the hell did Koizumi teleport from sitting next to Mikuru-chan all the way to standing behind Kyon?:heh:

[Heminga13]

Everyone knows Koizumi has secret Esper Boy powers that he hasn't told Kyon.

[Mecha_Trueno]

Nagato taught him shunpo:heh:

[Rice_slayer]

Yay, the epic battle is here!

FYI, this is the "Mazui SD subs are out" post :P

[worldruined]

When it comes to touching Kyon, even teleporting is too slow for Koizumi.

[serenade_beta]

Kyon, you idiot... If you can't use your right hand, than use your left. Or your feet. Anyways, smack her once............ Hard.
And Churuya-san........................................

[Triple_R]

Kyon, you idiot... If you can't use your right hand, than use your left. Or your feet. Anyways, smack her once............ Hard.
And Churuya-san........................................

With strong man Koizumi holding me back like that, I wouldn't have tried anything else either... :heh:

[aulzon]

One the best episodes of Haruhi in a while (finally Kyoani is getting back).

The tension built up to the climax of Kyon and Haruhi's fight was really great. It's strange at how one moment you can absolutely hate Haruhi and at the other really love her. Haruhi trying to tie up a ponytail near the end was a little redeeming of her, considering how much of a bitch she came off in the beginning.

Although again, it would have been nice if they ended it at when he tried to reconciled with Haruhi, seemed like it was a really abrupt mid-way ending.

[Xiomay]

^ Agreed about the ending.

While the abrupt ending has been present in the rest of the Sighs episodes, this has been the only one where I really noticed. Again, agreeing with aulzon, the scene where Kyon makes up with Haruhi seems more appropriate to wrap the episode up.

[Rice_slayer]

My god, that was THE best episode this re-run, if not my favourite Haruhi episode to date! Art is back where it should be, the fight scene was EPIC and the whole Haruhi/Kyon post-fight thing and the kyon catching her with the pony tail= awesome! Best part:Shami next episode!!!!! 10/10, by far my favourite ep. , almost makes up for the E8 crap...

[Launch]

Wow! Just watched the Mazui subs and this episode was excellent. The art was so good, very S1. Especially at the climax of "the scene", beautifully detailed.

One thing though. Why is the silver Mikuru Beam called 'Mikuru Beam "R"'?
From what I remember of the novels (not much xD) isn't it because the contact is in her Right eye? In this episode it was in her left. I'm probably just mis-remembering that chapter though...

[Dakota]

Watched the Mazui deal. I shat my pants at "the scene." The animation was so good I almost cried.

9/10

[sacundim]

I don't think that the toned-down fight scene is as much of a loss as people are making out. The way I'd summarize that whole scene goes as follows:


Kyon realizes Haruhi convinced Tsuruya to spike Asahina's drink, in order to get her to relax and look "erotic" for her scene. Kyon, who was angry already, is now getting seriously angry.
Kyon orders Koizumi to stop playing the scene, and Koizumi complies, saying that Asahina has reached her limit anyway.
Haruhi heads over to Asahina, and blames her for getting too drunk, when it was Haruhi's idea to spike her drink. This angers Kyon further.
Haruhi asks Asahina to wake up, and gives her a tap on the head with the horn to wake her up. This angers Kyon more.
Haruhi complains that Asahina's reaction to the horn tap was "no good." Asahina's reflexes are, of course, deadened by the sake. Kyon gets even angrier.
Haruhi taps Asahina one more time as "training"; that is, to give her an "opportunity" to react once more, but this time "correctly" (i.e., as Haruhi wants).
Haruhi taps a third time, as more "training."
Kyon tells Haruhi to stop and starts arguing with Haruhi.
Haruhi tells Kyon to shut up, and that she doesn't have to answer to him on how she "uses things." (So that by Haruhi's own words, Asahina is a "thing" that she uses.)
Kyon and Haruhi argue some more. Kyon gets still angrier.
Kyon tells Haruhi that Asahina is not her toy.
Haruhi answers that Asahina is her toy.
Kyon loses it, and tries to hit Haruhi, but Koizumi stops him.


I really don't think the scene is any worse than in the novel. In the novel version the hard smacks don't send Kyon over the edge; he holds Haruhi's arm in order to stop her from hitting Asahina anymore. What sends him over the edge is this:


"Well I've decided, Mikuru-chan is my toy!"

After hearing this, I could feel blood charging up to my brain, I even thought my vision was going red. I was infuriated, suddenly my impulse overrode my reasoning, and I made a subconscious reflex reaction.

Someone grabbed my wrist. I noticed Koizumi had closed his eyes and was slowly shaking his head. When I saw Koizumi holding my hand, I realized I had clenched my right fist and was about to strike Haruhi.

[Kid Ying]

Saw the mazui one, though i can't recommend to see this version. Wait for a new one.

The only thing i can say about this episode is that i never saw Kyon being such an asshole. What's the deal with him? Such a big deal about little things. Haruhi was a brat and stuff, but trying to physically assault her is crazy...

Overall, it was a helluva nice episode, but i don't know, i like Koizumi, but when he starts to explain things i get bored all of sudden...

[Daniel Lind]

Haruhi was a brat and stuff, but trying to physically assault her is crazy...
:D
"I don't care if it's an animal or a person, but anyone who won't learn deserves to be taught a lesson, even if it means using my fists" (c) from elsewhere

[Yushi]

I never liked Haruhi much but after this episode.... >.> Bah!
Poor Mikuru D:
I'm a bit annoyed that Kyon had to be the one to make up when it should be HARUHI doing so. >=o Though to be fair, he didn't apologize, which is good :)

[Ikonomi]

So I found myself leaning forward in my chair, my hands pressed to the sides of my neck, with tears starting in my eyes. Just what the FUCK is this show doing to me?

Really, really good episode. So good it makes me feel stupid for rating any other episode this season a perfect 10, because this one is better. Haruhi pissed me off, too, treating Mikuru that way, but then to see her so hurt and beautiful and angry, and the utter disbelief on her face, and everything else... It was all really wrenching. Go back and watch it again, and you realize how quickly and subtly the emotions flit across Haruhi's face. Amazing.

A classic.

Oh, and ponytail.

[kniteowl]

Great Episode, a 10 for me.

The Kyon/Haruhi conflict was portrayed quite well to me, I felt exactly the saem as Kyon when watching that scene.

I've reed the novels too, although that was like years ago so I don't remember the exact details when watching this episode but the anime only watchers will probably understand that scene quite well I reckon.

[monir]

Saw the mazui one, though i can't recommend to see this version. Wait for a new one.

The only thing i can say about this episode is that i never saw Kyon being such an asshole. What's the deal with him? Such a big deal about little things. Haruhi was a brat and stuff, but trying to physically assault her is crazy...

Overall, it was a helluva nice episode, but i don't know, i like Koizumi, but when he starts to explain things i get bored all of sudden...
The popular belief in parenting is that if you are going to punish your kids, make sure you tell them why exactly they are being punished. Haruhi, for all intent and purpose, is a child. Kyon's action, in this case, is appropriate considering he can recognize why Koizumi, Yuki, and Mikuru-chan (in her infinite cutesy way) have to tolerate Haruhi's abundant energy and go with her shinanigans. Kyon recognizes that they simply fear the implication that there are too much for them to lose.

I agree that he was going overboard, but something was needed to be done. I couldn't also help but notice how Koizumi did not interject when Kyon was pretty much shouting at her. Kyon did the job. He did not let her slide, but did not crush her enthusiasm altogether either. He made sure of that. We know it worked when the cherry blossoms were in full bloom.

Kyon was starting to become boring, but the episode has restored some of his charm that was found in the previous season. This was a good episode.

[Kaioshin Sama]

This episode is getting a tremendous amount of hype and praise and while I was about to spend my time playing some Gihren's Greed I figure I ought to see this now and comment on the apparent return to greatness or whatever constitutes such a notion when it comes to this series, which has had more ups and downs then I can count. Realizing that no Kyoani created episode that has been highly praised has ever once lived up to it's hype in my eyes I am almost certain that I should be playing GG instead and that this will merely be passable (and thus should really wait like I usually do with my anime queues when it comes to Haruhi 2009), but I guess I'll play the almost certain sucker once again.

What's 25 or so minutes anyway......as long as it's halfway remotely decent I'll consider it time well spent. Quick download...here I go.... back in 25. :uhoh:

*crosses fingers and chants please don't be a waste of time*

[ijuinkun]

The popular belief in parenting is that if you are going to punish your kids, make sure you tell them why exactly they are being punished. Haruhi, for all intent and purpose, is a child. Kyon's action, in this case, is appropriate considering he can recognize why Koizumi, Yuki, and Mikuru-chan (in her infinite cutesy way) have to tolerate Haruhi's abundant energy and go with her shinanigans. Kyon recognizes that they simply fear the implication that there are too much for them to lose.


I always interpreted Koizumi's expression when he stops Kyon from slugging Haruhi to mean "You fool! You'll doom us all!" (as in "seriously offend her and she'll reboot the world")

[Mecha_Trueno]

Btw, is it me or did it look/feel like Haruhi was on the brink of crying when she was shouting?

[monir]

I always interpreted Koizumi's expression when he stops Kyon from slugging Haruhi to mean "You fool! You'll doom us all!" (as in "seriously offend her and she'll reboot the world")
Agreed. It becomes very apparent when Koizumi talks to Kyon a bit later.

Btw, is it me or did it look/feel like Haruhi was on the brink of crying when she was shouting?
She was stunned, that's for sure. The scene I thought she was going to cry was when Kyon came back and told her that she needed to finish this film. Then, she retains her usual form to my utter disappointment. :upset::heh:

[Kaioshin Sama]

Alright that was halfway decent so it was time well spent. The first half wasn't much to write home admittedly with it's continued behind the scenes style look at the episode 00 content that we've already seen in it's finished status and honestly done much more interestingly since it was done in a clever point of view style in the first season rather than just simply what we have here with the Sighs' adaptation. I mean I have to laugh a little when arguably the most pressing issue being portrayed is whether Mikuru is going to take a dunk in the water or not (heavens!)........yeah this seasons been pretty lighthearted and not as balanced as the first one when it comes to comedy and drama. Yuki was Yuki (technobabble), Tsuruya was Tsuruya (Ahahahahahahaha *points*), everyone was as they normally are and it's honestly getting a bit old, but what can I say, Haruhi as a franchise has never been big on character and scenario advancement and this season has been like a microcosm of that aspect of it.

That said the second half didn't start terribly great with me getting ready to roll my eyes at what I thought was going to be another lacklustre Kyoani standard attempt to bring on the pathos (Which they did a little at first since Haruhi lightly tapping Mikuru's head and Kyon getting all dramatic had me laughing more than I thought I would given that it sounded more like outright bullying in the novel and hence a lot more serious and dramatic), but when Kyon went to go deck Haruhi I have to appreciate how the scene was handled from then on with Haruhi looking so betrayed and almost like she was going to cry before putting on her strong front again. From then on still it was just okay again, but that one scene was a bit of a stand out for this season. Makes me think that Kyoani's staff are slowly remembering again how to do decent drama and how to use the subtle expression of a character to convey more than the most overboard of animation sequences and shouting could ever convey. Of course they then went on to have that scene of over the top gesticulation and spotty matching of voice to mouth movement, but I'll give them this one.

So decent episode that is a bit above average for what we've seen this season.....now I'm off to play some Gihren's Greed.

[touge-n00b]

Yay! for ponytail Haruhi! Kyon really needs to push that more. :D

[sacundim]

Btw, is it me or did it look/feel like Haruhi was on the brink of crying when she was shouting?

It wasn't just you.

[monir]

but when Kyon went to go deck Haruhi I have to appreciate how the scene was handled from then on with Haruhi looking so betrayed and almost like she was going to cry before putting on her strong front again. From then on still it was just okay again, but that one scene was a bit of a stand out for this season. Makes me think that Kyoani's staff are slowly remembering again how to do decent drama and how to use the subtle expression of a character to convey more than the most overboard of animation sequences and shouting could ever convey. .
I agree that particular scene was well done from every aspect. I also hope that this show will return to its former glory and this episode will mark its beginning. The one other thing I'll need to point out is that the overall animation is still spotty at many places if we compare the standard set in the first season.

[SSJiffy]

This is Haruhi. A perfect 10.

[Kaioshin Sama]

I agree that particular scene was well done from every aspect. I also hope that this show will return to its former glory and this episode will mark its beginning. The one other thing I'll need to point out is that the overall animation is still spotty at many places if we compare the standard set in the first season.

Well if we're to believe the 28 episode order that was reported by some TV stations then it might be a case of to little too late. It should be over by next week barring any surprises which........with Kadokawa are always possible. I think though that we'll probably have to wait a while before we can see if there will be any sort of return to form for this series, and even then the ball rests squarely in "our benefactors" willingness to see that through.

[Slobodan]

So this is why I love(d) this anime. Supernatural parts excluded, it's basically watching these characters do things that aren't that fun in quite an inexpert fashion - yet with every aspect combined in just the right amounts, I end up watching the ED thinking "God this was good", anxiously anticipating the next episode.

I thought the animation was particularly good in this episode, this is the best SHnY has looked in my opinion. Mikuru was utterly adorable wasted and Haruhi's facial expressions were on that fine line between the arrogant, confident, self-righteous and cute (the latter increased towards the end of the episode in a linear fashion). Also Tsuruya - I've hardly noticed this character much before but her laughing at Mikuru and the slight resemblance to Haruhi personality-wise were very entertaining, I rejoiced every time I saw her in a scene.

Kyon opposing Haruhi was a nice story development, I got kind of sick seeing him just complain and nag but never having the courage to go past the teeth-gritting (the potential punches were a bit too much but eh, guess we could say he lost it). Then that conversation with Koizumi, interesting as always (though more serious in character which reminded me of that major one they had in taxi in season 1), revealed some interesting thoughts on Koizumi's part. So Haruhi might have only been granted the power of a God but she isn't one? And this world they are in is what, her playground, a dimension separate from the one they originated from, thus being less important (failure)? I'm hoping the story will go along these lines and get more complicated. Even Taniguchi played a role here; he made Kyon find out how big of an idiot he is too. I mean come on, yeah Haruhi has many flaws but doing things with her and the rest of the SOS brigade doesn't look all that boring to me (the opposite actually) and Kyon knows that too except his subconscious mind rarely lets that thought emerge.

A thoroughly enjoyable episode, quite an eye-candy, what with the shading in Tsuruya's house and intricate facial expressions.

[chinaboat]

What I never understood about that scene was how Mikuru never noticed that their was tequila in her drink. If you've ever mixed tequila (or any alcoholic beverage with significant alcoholic content) you'd know that even if you water it down with whatever they were drinking that you'd still likely taste it. I'd find it hard to believe that Mikuru wouldn't have gone and said "My drink tastes funny" or something along thoses lines.

Because of the color of the drinks it could be that between the time the novel was written and the time the anime was scripted a decision was made to change the drink from juice with tequila to rice milk with medium sweet Nigori sake because of that issue. Tsuruya definitely says sake and the (English translation) novel definitely says tequila

Understatement of the episode: [Mazui] "What a perfectly timed irregular climate change"

[Game8910]

cmon am I the only one who lold like an idiot when Yuki "opened" the fence in the beginning? :heh::heh::heh:

[OkamiNoKaze]

What an episode, it was great. I agree, it was the thinking Mikuru was her toy, more then the twacking with the megaphone that was getting to Kyon. I also agree it was a slow boil of things covering the Sigh story until now. I liked the almost ponytail, and another Mikuru beam, And they cut it mid sentence again.

[Nochgo]

The best episode of second season so far, in my opinion. Kudos to Sugita Tomokazu, for the best 'kuso' i've heard in ages, which pushed my rating of this episode to ten. Angry Kyon is awesome (lol). The Kyon vs Haruhi conflict was pretty intense too, which the bgm helped set up the mood, and whole scene was done well, I thought. I'm hoping for one more episode of Sigh? We haven't seen the cat yet and all... but there was no opening and stuff, so I'm uncertain. (if the answer was stated already in previous thread, please excuse me; about to fall asleep atm)

[ac195]

Kyon... you have lost some points in my book... I know you were mad... but that punch... you raised your fist like a little girl...

Still, overall, the best episode so far.
So that was amazake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazake) Mikuru was drunk with.

Little kids drink this in Japan... how the hell do you get drunk off this candy like sh*t? Still, I guess it's better than cutting the scene entirely.

[Jintor]

Episode is amazing.

Tomokazu Sugita is amazing.

Tsuruya is amazing.

Haruhi is amazing.

Epic Kyon self-realisation moment is amazing.

OMG LOL HALFPONYTAIL.

[ac195]

For future reference this...is not how you throw a punch.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/503/kyonpunch.png

This is how you throw a punch!!!
oJA6cqPrJUA

[Jintor]

I don't think Kyon was going to freaking slug Haruhi. The idea of him striking her is bad enough.

/edit When Kyon barged through the door and Haruhi was mucking with her hair I thought I was going to heartburst right there

[gonzo562]

great episode go kyon

[sacundim]

Little kids drink this in Japan... how the hell do you get drunk off this candy like sh*t?

I don't think anybody's gonna like this explanation, but... Haruhi wanted Asahina to be drunk. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.AWizardDidIt)

[ac195]

I don't think anybody's gonna like this explanation, but... Haruhi wanted Asahina to be drunk. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.AWizardDidIt)

Oh, I totally lost focus there... so instead of the tequila they actually used in the LN... they censor it with amazake and used Haruhi's reality bending abilities to weasel their way out of it... touche KyoAni, nicely played.

[Airman8]

Dayamn, now that's what we've all been waiting for!

I melted a bit during the scene when Kyon barged through the door and saw Haruhi putting her hair up. :)

They did a great job with this episode. It justifies the quiet and slower buildup over the previous episodes in the arc.

[thermopyle]

Perhaps the sole Haruhi episode I've actually enjoyed watching this season. Sure, seeing a sexy thang being played around with like property is scolding worthy but physical violence? Naah, not when it'll cause BOOM. 9/10.

[Akka]

I was quite frustrated by this ep.
Good quality overall, but...

KYON, YOU HAVE TWO HANDS ! If this idiot Koizumi hold one, PUNCH THE BITCH WITH THE OTHER !

I'm a bit irritated by how Haruhi plays the Karma Houdini (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KarmaHoudini). She treats people like objects and doesn't care at all about their well-being, and when she's about to learn her lesson, bing, she's protected from consequences by her God-situation - or by Kyon being a bit too quick to forgive her.

She's definitely a huge bitch :p

[Airman8]

I was quite frustrated by this ep.
Good quality overall, but...

KYON, YOU HAVE TWO HANDS ! If this idiot Koizumi hold one, PUNCH THE BITCH WITH THE OTHER !

I'm a bit irritated by how Haruhi plays the Karma Houdini (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KarmaHoudini). She treats people like objects and doesn't care at all about their well-being, and when she's about to learn her lesson, bing, she's protected from consequences by her God-situation - or by Kyon being a bit too quick to forgive her.

She's definitely a huge bitch :p

haha, I love the emphasis you added to that. I think a lot of people would agree the Kyon should have brought out the south paw...

But, I thought this episode nailed the scene that really meant the most -when Haruhi saw that her treatment of other people had real consequences, and Kyon finally taking a stand. This is a good start to Haruhi realizing she can't just manipulate people. Someone here said Kyon needed this after being emasculated in E8. I couldn't agree more.

But it was handled well. Haruhi looked more sympathetic in this episode than at any other time in the series. When she saw that Kyon was willing to turn his back on her it really shook her. The scene with Taniguchi and Kunikida was absolutely priceless. Such good support characters to bring it down to earth that way.

I gave this episode a 9. I should have given it a 10. There was a great deal of subtlety and it paid off in spades. For the first time this season they delivered some fantastic storytelling and tapped into the essence of what this series is really all about. I liked BLR and parts of E8, but this takes the cake.

Next up, we have to find a cat...

[zriL]

KYON, YOU HAVE TWO HANDS ! If this idiot Koizumi hold one, PUNCH THE BITCH WITH THE OTHER !


I think he is too far to do that, Koizumi also prevent him from moving forward.

[Akka]

I think he is too far to do that, Koizumi also prevent him from moving forward.
Use your legs then ! HIGH-KICK TO THE FACE !

[taishi363]

awesome episode. it's nice for the endless eight to be finally over. i kinda got sad at the end though. once she said she wanted a cat, the ED started going. i was like, NO I WANNA SEE SHAMISEN! its torture for me :(. then again, i want this to be over so it can start the Disappearance.

btw, i wish kyon came into the room later so he can catch haruhi in a ponytail. it wouldve been a great scene to watch :D

[Forever]

Got a feeling koizumi is actually using his powers to restrain kyon.

I almost wished that punch had landed, though a slap will be more sufficient. And I do feel that haruhi got let off too easily as well.

[taishi363]

Got a feeling koizumi is actually using his powers to restrain kyon.

I almost wished that punch had landed, though a slap will be more sufficient. And I do feel that haruhi got let off too easily as well.i agree, but can you imagine if kyon really did hit haruhi? wow, think of the responses ;)

[ffantasy24]

Wow. Kyon's status has just sky rocketed way up in my good book. FINALLY the dude showed some man guts! For a sec there I felt like giving Haruhi a good slap myself. The girl just has no limit whatsoever it's uncanny. Someone needs to put her in her rightful place and kyon is finally doing the job properly. Cheers to the guy.

[X10A_Freedom]

If chopping off an arm to save one life is inexpensive (from another series), what about sacrifising one life (Haruhi) to save 6 billion lives? (the world)

Totally disgusting episode imo. It was fairly well-done on the production side but Haruhi had stopped being funny by the third episode of the movie arc, and has become beyond disgusting.

My emotions dictate I should give a 1/10 but I shall abstain.

[Jonbob0008]

Definitely the best episode of the new ones, and I doubt next week's episode will top it, considering what we know will happen...

Although seeing Shamisen talk will be pretty epic anyway.

I'll definitely be watching this episode many times over the course of the week.

[ac195]

If chopping off an arm to save one life is inexpensive (from another series), what about sacrifising one life (Haruhi) to save 6 billion lives? (the world)

Totally disgusting episode imo. It was fairly well-done on the production side but Haruhi had stopped being funny by the third episode of the movie arc, and has become beyond disgusting.

My emotions dictate I should give a 1/10 but I shall abstain.

The difference??? The possibility of the outcome. Kill the possible god of the world or sacrifice a yuri girl's fugly hairy arm... HMMM, I wonder which outcome would be more disastrous...

Yeah, Bakemonogatari is great. But if you think it's gonna do what Haruhi did in 2006 then you're kidding yourself. SEED is terrible by the way... talk about a Sunrise ripping itself off...ROFLZ :D

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Roger Rambo]

Looking at the actual scene in question is a bit...disappointing.

Haruhi isn't really even hitting Mikuru. She's bopping her on the head with a card board speaker. And not even allot. And everyone acts like it's dramatic? And Mikuru isn't really reacting. I mean, this just doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as the novels. If it wasn't for the forcibly dramatic music we'd probably not assume that we'd touched on some moral event horizon.

Also, who the hell try's to punch anyone like that? It looks like he was about to do some kind of hammer strike...but he was to far away for that to work.

Apparently all of Kyon's threats of "I'll kick your ass!" we're pretty much hollow.


Got a feeling koizumi is actually using his powers to restrain kyon.

Koizumi has no powers in the normal world.

And frankly that scene probably would have worked better if Koizumi had put more visible effort into restraining Kyon.

If chopping off an arm to save one life is inexpensive (from another series), what about sacrifising one life (Haruhi) to save 6 billion lives? (the world)
How do you know this will save the world? Nobody understands anything about how Haruhi powers actually work, including the hyper advanced non corporeal aliens.

I'm gonna call back on my analogy of primitive cavemen dealing with a nuclear reactor with a somewhat faulty safety mechanism causing it to occasionally spew radiation by taking a bunch of large rocks and bashing the safety mechanisms thinking this will make everything better.

[Triple_R]

Just watched this episode in sub format. I'm going to reply to Kaioshin first

Alright that was halfway decent so it was time well spent. The first half wasn't much to write home admittedly with it's continued behind the scenes style look at the episode 00 content that we've already seen in it's finished status and honestly done much more interestingly since it was done in a clever point of view style in the first season rather than just simply what we have here with the Sighs' adaptation. I mean I have to laugh a little when arguably the most pressing issue being portrayed is whether Mikuru is going to take a dunk in the water or not (heavens!)........yeah this seasons been pretty lighthearted and not as balanced as the first one when it comes to comedy and drama.

I agree with that criticism overall (i.e. as it pertains to this year of new Haruhi episodes overall), but I don't think that's the case with this particular episode. This latest episode really straddles the line between real drama and melodrama for me, but one thing I wouldn't call it is lighthearted. That's some of the least lighthearted background music that I've ever heard.

I'm divided on the water-throwing scene. On the one hand... yeah, it really isn't that big of a deal; unpleasant, sure, but Haruhi's right in that this is the kind of sacrifice that any serious actor should be willing to make... although, in fairness to Mikuru, she never signed up with the SOS Brigade to be an actress.

Also, the way that Mikuru's facial expressions were handled during the tossing-into-water scene, combined with the downright haunting background music... I actually felt very sorry for the girl. This is the first time Haruhi's treatment of Mikuru has truly, honestly made me feel sorry for Mikuru. It's probably because Mikuru wasn't whining, but rather was petrified. Outright petrified. The palpable sense of great fear and dread on Mikuru's part really came through in this scene... and I simply have to pity the girl.

And I have to admit that Mikuru's resolve through out this episode impressed me.

So... at face value, this scene was way too melodramatic. But from Kyon and Mikuru's perspective... I can kind of see the serious drama here. For once, Mikuru didn't strike me as just being a whiner; you really could tell how scared she was of being thrown in the water. Now I'm inclined to think that the poor girl simply has some serious psychological issues with phobias. She needs to see a counselor.


Yuki was Yuki (technobabble), Tsuruya was Tsuruya (Ahahahahahahaha *points*), everyone was as they normally are and it's honestly getting a bit old, but what can I say, Haruhi as a franchise has never been big on character and scenario advancement and this season has been like a microcosm of that aspect of it.

While I agree with you on Yuki and Tsuruya, I felt that this episode did a fair bit to change how one sees Haruhi, Kyon, and Mikuru.

And... I also have a new respect for Koizumi with this episode. He's really trying his best to handle a difficult situation here. For once, I got a real sense of heroism from him. I don't know if I agree with his decision to block Kyon's attack on Haruhi... if I was him I'd be very tempted to let Kyon get one punch off and then break it up... but his dialogue really shows a man deeply conflicted and wanting to do what's right.

This episode makes Koizumi seem a fair bit less shady to me. He clearly fancies himself a defender of the Earth, and takes that role seriously. He obviously has real disagreements with Haruhi, but is swallowing some bitter pills to keep her appeased. I get the feeling that Koizumi would like to knock some sense into Haruhi as well, but he's holding back for the greater good, and is surprised that the usually calm Kyon is failing to do the same.




That said the second half didn't start terribly great with me getting ready to roll my eyes at what I thought was going to be another lacklustre Kyoani standard attempt to bring on the pathos (Which they did a little at first since Haruhi lightly tapping Mikuru's head and Kyon getting all dramatic had me laughing more than I thought I would given that it sounded more like outright bullying in the novel and hence a lot more serious and dramatic), but when Kyon went to go deck Haruhi I have to appreciate how the scene was handled from then on with Haruhi looking so betrayed and almost like she was going to cry before putting on her strong front again.

Agreed.

Makes me think that Kyoani's staff are slowly remembering again how to do decent drama and how to use the subtle expression of a character to convey more than the most overboard of animation sequences and shouting could ever convey.

I strongly agree here too.




So decent episode that is a bit above average for what we've seen this season.....now I'm off to play some Gihren's Greed.

Where can you get Gihren's Greed, by the way? I'd love to play the game - the promos I've seen of it are awesome!


A couple more observations I'll make here...

I really liked how Kyon got a taste of his own snark medicine with what Taniguchi was saying to him about the movie. It also helps how Taniguchi's comment was understandable as he was peeved over how Haruhi so cavalierly dismissed him and Kunikida earlier on in the episode. Kyon's realization of how Taniguchi's snark really rubs him the wrong way is a reflection of how Kyon's snark probably rubs Haruhi the wrong way, was brilliant I felt. It was nice to see Kyon be truly self-reflective here, and try to empathize a bit with Haruhi.

I'm glad that Kyon didn't outright apologize - quite frankly, Haruhi didn't deserve one. Haruhi should be apologizing to Mikuru, if anything. Kyon's uplifting statement to Haruhi near the end of the episode was a good way for him to go, I felt; he uplifts Haruhi with out conceding the principle of the thing, and Kyon's right on the principle of the thing. That being said, I'd be really tempted to let Haruhi spend one more day stewing in her depression if I was Kyon. Haruhi really needs to learn some things.

I actually felt that this episode ending wasn't overly abrupt - the mention of getting a cat serves as a nice
cliff-hanger moment, imo.

However, all of the above stated... Haruhi really crossed the line in this episode. Even I, one of her more passionate defenders, can't defend her here. Her treatment of Mikuru in Tsuruya's house is just beyond the pale, and reflects a mind that, frankly, is just out of it.

Totally out of it.

It's not even that Haruhi is being cruel; it's that she doesn't even realize that she's being cruel. She doesn't even seem to view other people as human beings with some basic human rights - no, scratch that, it's deeper than that. Haruhi doesn't even understand why Kyon is getting upset. Even if Haruhi doesn't view other people as human beings with some basic human rights, she should still be cognizant of the fact that most people do... including Kyon.

As a whole, I think that Sigh (the novel) took Haruhi too far. It took her over the edge, I think. While it was nice to see an intense Kyon vs Haruhi bit, the lead-up to it just stretched Haruhi's character beyond the breaking point for me. I don't know - I just would have preferred it if Haruhi's actions were cold (cold enough to legitimately get a rise out of Kyon) but at least understandable. How can Haruhi think the way that she does in this episode? It actually makes her look breathtakingly ignorant and/or stupid, frankly. How Haruhi can be so good at school, and yet be this ignorant of what most people would call "common sense", is beyond me.

For this reason, I can't give this episode a 10. I give it a 9. In fairness, it's not KyoAni's fault - the novel itself is at fault here, imo; there's nothing KyoAni could do about it, short of major alteration. Still, it means that this episode presents Haruhi's character in a way that detracts a great deal from my appreciation of it.

Other than that, an excellent episode.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I'm gonna call back on my analogy of primitive cavemen dealing with a nuclear reactor with a somewhat faulty safety mechanism causing it to occasionally spew radiation by taking a bunch of large rocks and bashing the safety mechanisms thinking this will make everything better.
Yep, pretty much.

No one knows what would happen if someone as powerful as Haruhi dies. We don't know if the universe could survive the effects.

The novels might go into that.what with some time travelers trying to kill the inventor of the time travel theory, which just happened to be Haruhi. (much to THEIR dismay) But we will see.

[17th_warrior]

Is only LQ version out, I mean subbed?

[X10A_Freedom]

I'm glad that Kyon didn't outright apologize - quite frankly, Haruhi didn't deserve one. Haruhi should be apologizing to Mikuru, if anything. Kyon's uplifting statement to Haruhi near the end of the episode was a good way for him to go, I felt; he uplifts Haruhi with out conceding the principle of the thing, and Kyon's right on the principle of the thing. That being said, I'd be really tempted to let Haruhi spend one more day stewing in her depression if I was Kyon. Haruhi really needs to learn some things.

I actually felt that this episode ending wasn't overly abrupt - the mention of getting a cat serves as a nice
cliff-hanger moment, imo.

However, all of the above stated... Haruhi really crossed the line in this episode. Even I, one of her more passionate defenders, can't defend her here. Her treatment of Mikuru in Tsuruya's house is just beyond the pale, and reflects a mind that, frankly, is just out of it.

Totally out of it.

It's not even that Haruhi is being cruel; it's that she doesn't even realize that she's being cruel. She doesn't even seem to view other people as human beings with some basic human rights - no, scratch that, it's deeper than that. Haruhi doesn't even understand why Kyon is getting upset. Even if Haruhi doesn't view other people as human beings with some basic human rights, she should still be cognizant of the fact that most people do... including Kyon.

As a whole, I think that Sigh (the novel) took Haruhi too far. It took her over the edge, I think. While it was nice to see an intense Kyon vs Haruhi bit, the lead-up to it just stretched Haruhi's character beyond the breaking point for me. I don't know - I just would have preferred it if Haruhi's actions were cold (cold enough to legitimately get a rise out of Kyon) but at least understandable. How can Haruhi think the way that she does in this episode? It actually makes her look breathtakingly ignorant and/or stupid, frankly. How Haruhi can be so good at school, and yet be this ignorant of what most people would call "common sense", is beyond me.

For this reason, I can't give this episode a 10. I give it a 9. In fairness, it's not KyoAni's fault - the novel itself is at fault here, imo; there's nothing KyoAni could do about it, short of major alteration. Still, it means that this episode presents Haruhi's character in a way that detracts a great deal from my appreciation of it.

Other than that, an excellent episode.
Exactly how I feel.

As for the killing her off comment of mine, if knocking sense into her is prohibited then what else is there? If she is such a dangerous object to be killed, what happens if something ordinary happens, like getting run over by a car? We also see Koizumi theorising that someone gave Haruhi those powers for some reason, meaning Haruhi isn't the source of the power itself - she's just a tool.

[phizzy]

Aww, when I saw Haruhi holding her hair in a ponytail it made me smile. :3

This episode was better than Endless Eight.

[karumofin]

this arc is tedious...

[Akka]

So... at face value, this scene was way too melodramatic. But from Kyon and Mikuru's perspective... I can kind of see the serious drama here. For once, Mikuru didn't strike me as just being a whiner; you really could tell how scared she was of being thrown in the water. Now I'm inclined to think that the poor girl simply has some serious psychological issues with phobias. She needs to see a counselor.
Hu, that's ridiculous. Nearly everybody would refuse flatly (and angrily) at the idea of being thrown in dirty water in autumn just so some spoiled brat would have fun.

We may find many of Haruhi's anthics to be fun because it's an anime and we don't have to deal with her in reality, but when judging the reactions of the characters in the show, we should try to imagine ourselves in their place.
Saying someone who is afraid to be thrown into dirty water has psychological problems... Hu...
It's not the one who doesn't want to be thrown in water who has problem in the head ; it's the one who want to throw others in.
I really liked how Kyon got a taste of his own snark medicine with what Taniguchi was saying to him about the movie. It also helps how Taniguchi's comment was understandable as he was peeved over how Haruhi so cavalierly dismissed him and Kunikida earlier on in the episode. Kyon's realization of how Taniguchi's snark really rubs him the wrong way is a reflection of how Kyon's snark probably rubs Haruhi the wrong way, was brilliant I felt. It was nice to see Kyon be truly self-reflective here, and try to empathize a bit with Haruhi.
Hu, actually, it's, again, Haruhi who has trouble with empathy, not Kyon.
Kyon had troubles to understand HIMSELF, not to understand HARUHI. What I understood is that the snark remarks irritated him because he realized that he actually liked Haruhi and was bored without her.
That being said, I'd be really tempted to let Haruhi spend one more day stewing in her depression if I was Kyon. Haruhi really needs to learn some things.
Yes, yes, yes, OHHHHH YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES...
She really got it off FAAAAAR too easily. But well, it's a bit the very concept of the serie, so...
It's not even that Haruhi is being cruel; it's that she doesn't even realize that she's being cruel. She doesn't even seem to view other people as human beings with some basic human rights - no, scratch that, it's deeper than that. Haruhi doesn't even understand why Kyon is getting upset. Even if Haruhi doesn't view other people as human beings with some basic human rights, she should still be cognizant of the fact that most people do... including Kyon.
That's exactly what have been my point and why I called her a monster in past threads ^^
As a whole, I think that Sigh (the novel) took Haruhi too far. It took her over the edge, I think. While it was nice to see an intense Kyon vs Haruhi bit, the lead-up to it just stretched Haruhi's character beyond the breaking point for me.
Actually, Haruhi character hasn't been stretched. It simply has been true to herself. She IS like that - we could see it in the first season - it's just that we are seeing her a bit more in day-to-day life and not only the "fun parts".
Someone as hideously self-centered as she is, and who disregards others as only tools for her amusement, would be exactly like in Sigh.
I don't know - I just would have preferred it if Haruhi's actions were cold (cold enough to legitimately get a rise out of Kyon) but at least understandable. How can Haruhi think the way that she does in this episode? It actually makes her look breathtakingly ignorant and/or stupid, frankly. How Haruhi can be so good at school, and yet be this ignorant of what most people would call "common sense", is beyond me.
It's called "sociopathy" :p
And though it's not quite like how it happens IRL, it's actually a bit this principle.

[Takamura Mamoru]

+ Good art
+ Very good voice acting on Kyon's and Haruhi's side
+ Hilarious
+ Kyon's monologue while sitting with Taniguchi was excellent.

- They could have made Haruhi's actions look more jerkassy

She didn't really hit Mikuru hard in the anime. Though it's possible they tried to tone down her cruelty.

Very good episode though. 9/10

[pirateking]

The quarrel between Haruhi and Kyon in this episode is gonna be important in the future. It eventually made haruhi realise the error of her ways and eventually become more open to Kyon's comments and suggestions.

In reality, friends and lovers will inevitably quarrel over something, no matter how trivia it is. Haruhi never made any friends prior to SOS dan and probably no one had stand up to her before, thus when Kyon opposed her, she was shocked and pissed. It wasn't wrong for Kyon to act the way he did, but violence won't solve the issue with Haruhi, which was why Koizumi knew this better and prevented Kyon's strike.

[Sackett]

The toning down of the scene was a good move. Novels and anime are different in impact on the audience. They toned it down just enough to keep Haruhi this side of the Moral Event Horizon- while still showing that Haruhi is seriously messed up in the head.

Mikuru is your toy? Well it's pretty obvious she thought it, what with Haruhi treating Mikuru like her personal life size dress up doll- but actually saying it?

It means Kyon's reaction seemed a bit over board, but he has enough built up goodness that the audience can forgive him losing it for once.

One thing I think some people have missed is that Kyon's freak out is first driven by rage over the treatment of Mikuru- but then after thinking about it he still wants to hit Haruhi- but because he's worried about Haruhi!

Everyone spoils her and it's making her a bad person, and Kyon wants Haruhi to be a good person.

I thought it was a very clever way to slip in some clues of how much Kyon cares for Haruhi- even if she does drive him crazy.

My favorite lines though came form the Kyon Kozumi interaction- particularly at the end. I couldn't help but imagine it to myself- only with more HOTBLOODEDness (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HotBlooded) on the part of Kozumi:

Kozumi: "Couldn't you have said it better!!!"

Kyon: "I'm sorry"

Kozumi: "You've made her even more powerful!!!" (Over 9000!!!!)

Kyon: "I'm sorry"

And earlier Kozumi: "We. Are. The Defenders! OF THE WORLD!!!"

It felt like a bit of a role reversal for Kozumi and Kyon

Kozumi: "Forgive me. I was talking out of character."

Yes. Yes you were.

[Vampire]

I liked the part when Kyon opens the door, Haruhi was about to do a ponytail and then she changes her mood when he comes in. Adorable.

[Triple_R]

Exactly how I feel.

As for the killing her off comment of mine, if knocking sense into her is prohibited then what else is there? If she is such a dangerous object to be killed, what happens if something ordinary happens, like getting run over by a car? We also see Koizumi theorising that someone gave Haruhi those powers for some reason, meaning Haruhi isn't the source of the power itself - she's just a tool.

Haruhi's a tricky case. I can see why Koizumi does what he does.

She has done/said some despicable things, yes, but... I don't think that she deserves to die. The problem is, of course, that it's intrinsically wrong to just go along with her worse moments of mistreating others.

... Maybe the best thing to do would be for Itsuki, Kyon, Mikuru, and Yuki to all just walk out on Haruhi, and say "We don't want to be part of the SOS Brigade any more until you clean up your act. Cleaning up your act means agreeing to treat Mikuru better, and stop treating us like subjects to do your bidding with out ever considering what we have to say."

Anybody here play Tales of the Abyss? If so...

Do you remember the scene where everybody else walked out on Luke fon Fabre after he did something stupid, with each of them leaving a short harsh comment towards Luke?

Well, if the SOS Brigade where to do something like the above towards Haruhi (but maybe a touch less harsh), maybe that would get through to her.


Hu, that's ridiculous. Nearly everybody would refuse flatly (and angrily) at the idea of being thrown in dirty water in autumn just so some spoiled brat would have fun.

We may find many of Haruhi's anthics to be fun because it's an anime and we don't have to deal with her in reality, but when judging the reactions of the characters in the show, we should try to imagine ourselves in their place.
Saying someone who is afraid to be thrown into dirty water has psychological problems... Hu...
It's not the one who doesn't want to be thrown in water who has problem in the head ; it's the one who want to throw others in.

Hu, actually, it's, again, Haruhi who has trouble with empathy, not Kyon.
Kyon had troubles to understand HIMSELF, not to understand HARUHI. What I understood is that the snark remarks irritated him because he realized that he actually liked Haruhi and was bored without her.

Yes, yes, yes, OHHHHH YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES...
She really got it off FAAAAAR too easily. But well, it's a bit the very concept of the serie, so...

That's exactly what have been my point and why I called her a monster in past threads ^^

Actually, Haruhi character hasn't been stretched. It simply has been true to herself. She IS like that - we could see it in the first season - it's just that we are seeing her a bit more in day-to-day life and not only the "fun parts".
Someone as hideously self-centered as she is, and who disregards others as only tools for her amusement, would be exactly like in Sigh.

It's called "sociopathy" :p
And though it's not quite like how it happens IRL, it's actually a bit this principle.

Maybe you're right, Akka. This episode is really making me reconsider Haruhi.

I want to like her character a lot, since she can be so dynamic and entertaining and fun, and her character design is gorgeous, but... maybe I've gone too easy on her in the past.

... I've always been a sucker for a pretty face. :heh:

[Heatth]

For who thinks Haruhi is a bitch(they are probably right, for now). Remember both Live A Live and Day of Sagitarius happens after this episode.

This is why she is not a 'monster'. She lear quit quickly to be a better person just after that.

[Triple_R]

For who thinks Haruhi is a bitch(they are probably right, for now). Remember both Live A Live and Day of Sagitarius happens after this episode.

This is why she is not a 'monster'. She lear quit quickly to be a better person just after that.

... In Day of Sagittarius, she throws a double-footed jump kick right into the temple (i.e. most sensitive part of the head) of the Computer Club President.

Then she goes on to put the poor sap and his club through yet another humiliation, all while shouting "Unleash the fires of hell on them!". :heh:

You could be right about Live a Live (I'd have to rewatch it, as I've forgotten a lot from it), but in Day of Sagittarius, Haruhi is downright villainous.

[Heatth]

... In Day of Sagittarius, she throws a double-footed jump kick right into the temple (i.e. most sensitive part of the head) of the Computer Club President.

Then she goes on to put the poor sap and his club through yet another humiliation, all while shouting "Unleash the fires of hell on them!". :heh:

You could be right about Live a Live (I'd have to rewatch it, as I've forgotten a lot from it), but in Day of Sagittarius, Haruhi is downright villainous.

But she did thought about Yuki's feelings in the end of this episode. She did allow Yuki goes to the computer club just after Yuki say she wants to. Quite better then smashing people head without thinking what the feel...

(I knew I would have to explain this episode...)

PP:
Also, the only villainous thing she did that episode was the kick. The humiliation of the computer club was their faut, not her (and they did cheat). They were right by wanting a ravange, but they really shouldn't need to cheat to won against some amateours(they did create the game, come on)

[Akka]

It means Kyon's reaction seemed a bit over board, but he has enough built up goodness that the audience can forgive him losing it for once.
I fail to see where Kyon has been overboard. A punch is quite tame compared to bullying and abusing people like Haruhi has done.

[Sackett]

I fail to see where Kyon has been overboard. A punch is quite tame compared to bullying and abusing people like Haruhi has done.

Wouldn't Hit A Girl is still very strongly felt by many of us guys.

[Heatth]

I fail to see where Kyon has been overboard. A punch is quite tame compared to bullying and abusing people like Haruhi has done.

Some people don't believe violence solve anything. Also, Kyon is strong enough to be able to stop Haruhi from hiting Mikuru without having to punching her. Actually, this scne kinda prooves that only his intentions of stop her would be more then enough. Punching her would just make things worse, not better.

[Triple_R]

But she did thought about Yuki's feelings in the end of this episode. She did allow Yuki goes to the computer club just after Yuki say she wants to. Quite better then smashing people head without thinking what the feel...

(I knew I would have to explain this episode...)

It's not that you need to explain it, Heatth. It's that you're making too much of it. Letting Yuki go to the Computer Club from time-to-time is just common decency; it's nothing to write home about. It certainly doesn't make up for Haruhi's mistreatment of the Computer Club during that episode.

Overall, Haruhi is villainous in Day of Sagittarius. It's not a good example of Haruhi becoming a better person. It really isn't.

Even before this episode started making me reconsider Haruhi's character, I viewed Day of Sagittarius as Haruhi near/at her worst.

It's where I got the idea of using Haruhi as a villain in my

Falcon Punch vs. Mikuru Beam, and...

Mobile Suit Melancholy: Operation Lolicon

YouTube series.


Also, the only villainous thing she did that episode was the kick. The humiliation of the computer club was their faut, not her (and they did cheat). They were right by wanting a ravange, but they really shouldn't need to cheat to won against some amateours(they did create the game, come on)

Heatth, I have to disagree. Haruhi shows no remorse whatsoever over stealing (in effect) their top of the line computer... which is exactly why Day of Sagittarius happened. She continues to delight in inflicting misery on the Computer Club, even after what she's already done to them. That's villainous, in my opinion.

[Akka]

Some people don't believe violence solve anything. Also, Kyon is strong enough to be able to stop Haruhi from hiting Mikuru without having to punching her. Actually, this scne kinda prooves that only his intentions of stop her would be more then enough. Punching her would just make things worse, not better.
It shows that he have been much too timid in the past, and should have opposed and yelled at Haruhi sooner and more effectively. But it doesn't mean that Haruhi hasn't earned by far the punch she was about to get.

[Heatth]

It's not that you need to explain it, Heatth. It's that you're making too much of it. Letting Yuki go to the Computer Club from time-to-time is just common decency; it's nothing to write home about. It certainly doesn't make up for Haruhi's mistreatment of the Computer Club during that episode.

Overall, Haruhi is villainous in Day of Sagittarius. It's not a good example of Haruhi becoming a better person. It really isn't.

Even before this episode started making me reconsider Haruhi's character, I viewed Day of Sagittarius as Haruhi near/at her worst.

I strongly disagre of you here. How Haruhi is villainous on that episode? She did a kick and that is it(bad, sure, not not that bad, specially considering how violence is generally downplayed in anime). The rest of the episode was her being a large ham and playing with friends. She really did nothing really bad to the Computer Club. Even making then part of her brigade is nothing as she never make then do anything for he after that.

Allowing Yuki help the CC when she feel like it is really just common decency. Something Haruhi kinda lack before this episode(before Live A Live, actually). I neve say she becomes a good person just after Sighs, but starts to go on this way.

PP:
Heatth, I have to disagree. Haruhi shows no remorse whatsoever over stealing (in effect) their top of the line computer... which is exactly why Day of Sagittarius happened. She continues to delight in inflicting misery on the Computer Club, even after what she's already done to them. That's villainous, in my opinion.

Oh, this. Sure, but is about something that happened moths before. As I said, the CC was right about wanting revange, but they act pretty bad too. What I said is ther humillation on that episode was their fault. You said she was vilainious because she humiliated then, but they humiliate thenselfs. What they should have done is just pick their PC back (or talking to some autority). Their efeat and the lost of the laptops in Day of Sagitarius was their fault, they even agreed with that.

It shows that he have been much too timid in the past, and should have opposed and yelled at Haruhi sooner and more effectively. But it doesn't mean that Haruhi hasn't earned by far the punch she was about to get.

Sorry, didn't understand(really). What I said is just grabing her wist would be way better for her (and for the world) then punching her.

[Triple_R]

Heatth - If you want examples of Haruhi being good, the best example is her trip to the island villa, imo.

There, she...

1) Shows sincere and frequent thanks to Koizumi's "relatives" for hosting her and her Brigade.

2) Shows sincere concern for Kyon after his body breaks her fall. In the anime, this includes her flashing perhaps her sweetest smile ever towards him.

3) Is genuinely helping everyone have a good, playful time.

4) Is actually quite troubled and upset over a man seemingly being killed. She's actually showing some modicum of concern for a stranger.


Also, I don't recall her doing anything jerkish in that two-parter. That was Haruhi at her best, imo.

[GMT]

This week on Sighs IV The Day Kyon Learned About his Hypertension

- Nagato practices for World's Strongest Woman Contest!
- Taniguchi catches amoebic dysentery!
- Old-Timey Floating Hat Left Behind Cartoon Gag!
- JELLO-WRESTLING!
- Haruhi considers her future career directing porn!
- Kyon gets angrier, and ANGRIER! Kyon's got a plan . . . by God, if it weren't for stupid goddamned Itsuki, I'd knock that psychopath INTO NEXT FUC . . . ahem . . . sorry. :twitch:
- Koizumi practices for his future career as a spineless jellyfish Paris Hilton's publicity agent corporate yes-man!
- Brave Mikuru is brave! (And shows better film-making sense than the director. :heh:)
- Kyon's RAGE!!11 starts to WARP REALITY! And BREAK THE FOURTH WALL! It changed the BGM! THE BGM!!!
- "What kind of evil do I have to do to live here?" Oh if only you knew, Kyon. If only you knew . . . :heh:
- Mikuru vs A Tequila Sunrise Sweet Sake! (:confused:) A winner is flawless cockblocking by Kyon of Itsuki! Sorry Itsuki, no hot drunken sex for you!
- Mikuru gets Itsuki for . . . Itsuki!
- Kyon gets ANGRIER, and ANGRIER!!11 Yelling at Haruhi, issuing DEATH THREATS to Itsuki!
- *hic* Brave Mikureu 's br -thud-
- The Scene! The Fight of the Century! Kyon vs Haruhi for the Heavyweight Champ'nship of the WORLD!
- Kyon finally SNAPS! GRRAWR, ANGRY KYON IS ANGRY!!11 WE'RE GONNA TRY MY PLAN NOW! I'M GONNA GIT YOU GOOD, YOU CRAZY PSYCHOTIC BRATTY BI . . . GODDAMNIT, STUPID ITSUKI . . . ahh, that crazy Kyon, reaching through the fourth wall and hijacking my keyboard again. :twitch:
- Itsuki kidnaps Kyon! White doves! KAWAII!!!
- Haruhi is the Alpha and the Omega! Repent, sinners, for the end of the world is nigh!
- Melancholy Haruhi Kyon is melancholy. :(
- Kyon = Taniguchi? Poor Kyon . . . you'll be scarred for life.
- Haruhi in a ponytail . . .
- Itsuki: "Damnit, Kyon! I said make up with her, not have hot makeup sex in the clubroom with her! You're such an idiot all the 'effin time most of the time sometimes, I don't know why I bother."
No, they didn't really have hot makeup sex in the clubroom. Haruhi's so easy to please, Kyon should've just gotten her a kitten. Seriously. Though imagine how the movie would've turned out if they did have sex . . . poor Mikuru . . .
~~~

Coming next week!

- Kyon gets a pet cat.
- ZOMG the cat TALKS!
- EPIC FILM EDITING!
- Kyon saves the day. AGAIN!

We've learned a valuable lesson, children. That no matter how utterly freakin' insane your boss is, you should do what he says. Without complaint. Or else, he'll destroy the world you're going to be a non-conformist and we can't have that, now, can we?

[Takamura Mamoru]

Falcon Punch vs. Mikuru Beam

You did this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU9yQyhdh5s)?

It's what got me into watching Haruhi.

[Triple_R]

You did this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU9yQyhdh5s)?

It's what got me into watching Haruhi.

That's incredibly cool. :) Yep, I'm CanadianHeMan from YouTube.

Gihren Zabi as Haruhi's dad just struck me as really funny and fitting at the time.

Of course... given how Falcon Punch vs. Mikuru Beam ends, I'm not sure how popular it'll be on this board. :heh:

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Falcon wins?

[Heatth]

Heatth - If you want examples of Haruhi being good, the best example is her trip to the island villa, imo.

There, she...

1) Shows sincere and frequent thanks to Koizumi's "relatives" for hosting her and her Brigade.

2) Shows sincere concern for Kyon after his body breaks her fall. In the anime, this includes her flashing perhaps her sweetest smile ever towards him.

3) Is genuinely helping everyone have a good, playful time.

4) Is actually quite troubled and upset over a man seemingly being killed. She's actually showing some modicum of concern for a stranger.


Also, I don't recall her doing anything jerkish in that two-parter. That was Haruhi at her best, imo.

I was looking for exemples after Sighs. That is why I didn't use Lone Island (I agree with you, anyway). Also, you kinda did miss my point. I wasn't saying exemples of her being a good person but for exemples that show she can empathize with other people feeing.

That is why allowing Yuki have fun is a good exemple, she obviously didn't like(and said so many times) having one of her brigade members being 'used' by other people. However she did concede after seeing Yuki really wanted to.

Having this in mind, the baseball game is another exemple, as she did give up the tournament for the other team sake (she said it was because she had enough fun already, but she agreed only after Kyon explaining how bad they were).

[17th_warrior]

Kyon's the man!
Instat 100/10
He should have punched her though.

[FlashFumo]

Wow. I was seriously impressed with this episode. The animation and art was top-notch. The acting was perfect, too. Aya's best performance imo.

Insta-10.

[17th_warrior]

One thing bothers me though, when Kyon was saying," I don't care you're an animal ...." was he actually saying this or just thinking??

[Triple_R]

Falcon wins?

Well, it's been up for a year, and if I can't spoil something I made myself it's pretty bad... yeah, Falcon wins, but Mikuru lives (whereas Falcon dies stopping her). That's the compromise I made since I gave up trying to count the vote totals from the trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVnc-y33Ybg&feature=video_response&fmt=18) that I made. :heh:

Originally, I was going to have whoever got the most votes win - at first, Falcon jumped out to a huge early lead, but Mikuru really gained steam later on. Eventually, I said 'screw it', and did the compromise ending.

[typhonsentra]

My favorite touch in the episode is just how well they portrayed Haruhi being hurt by Kyon's reaction to the fight with Kyon, in the novel he obviously doesn't notice so her reaction to him is barely mentioned but here we get to see all the details nicely. How when first confronted she doesn't know how to react so she takes about 2-3 seconds to decide to be angry with him but once she's on a role she doesn't break again to respond to his comments until the punch comes.

And after words, they way they portray her fighting back the tears was so well done, even better than I'd hoped for. The animation direction coupled with Hirano's voice acting really drove the point home.

[Ascaloth]

Episode 23 article is up:

[RIUVA] Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu (2009), Episode 23: Suzumiya Haruhi no Tameiki IV (http://www.riuva.com/?p=1497)

This. This is the Suzumiya Haruhi I remember. 10/10.

[Vexx]

There's an old Twilight Zone episode that is illustrative of just how badly Haruhi could go left unchallenged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Good_Life_%28The_Twilight_Zone%29

Haruhi has a bitter vindictive streak that needs to be corralled - the other side of the Goddess. If there's any event that warranted a slap, this comes closest to it (though no one, not even Kyon, is sure he wasn't going to punch her in the face).

This episode is absolutely necessary to remind the viewer just how precarious the situation is. The Twilight Zone episode I reference shows where a completely unchecked Haruhi might lead to.

[Airman8]

Maybe you're right, Akka. This episode is really making me reconsider Haruhi.

I want to like her character a lot, since she can be so dynamic and entertaining and fun, and her character design is gorgeous, but... maybe I've gone too easy on her in the past.

... I've always been a sucker for a pretty face. :heh:

Well, keep in mind this is still an early stage in the series and she has a long way to go. We can't have our best Haruhi defender lose faith! All I'll say in order to avoid spoiling is that when I read Disappearance I got a very different impression of Haruhi. I think you have a lot to look forward to with Haruhi from a character development perspective, and a lot more good HaruhixKyon scenes. I think they have one of the funniest relationships I've ever seen in anime.

[Triple_R]

Well, keep in mind this is still an early stage in the series and she has a long way to go. We can't have our best Haruhi defender lose faith! All I'll say in order to avoid spoiling is that when I read Disappearance I got a very different impression of Haruhi. I think you have a lot to look forward to with Haruhi from a character development perspective, and a lot more good HaruhixKyon scenes. I think they have one of the funniest relationships I've ever seen in anime.

Well... with that sort of encouragement, I'm back in the Haruhiist fold. ;)

After all, as this episode shows, Haruhi turns darkness (doves) into light, and she even makes the flowers blossom and bloom.

[Kaisos Erranon]

For those of you who are still calling Haruhi a sociopath... rewatch Live Alive after this arc is over, please.

You did this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU9yQyhdh5s)?

Wait, that's dub Haruhi? Wendee Lee certainly improved from the Melancholy arc...


This episode is absolutely necessary to remind the viewer just how precarious the situation is. The Twilight Zone episode I reference shows where a completely unchecked Haruhi might lead to.

I knew someone would bring up Anthony Fremont eventually.

Haruhi is not Anthony Fremont. She's far from being as evil as him.

[Ithekro]

Turns backgrounds back into KyoAni artwork....

And remember, during the space battle/game, Haruhi was being a meglomaniac...but never was the world in danger of her destroying it or changing it. A point Itsuki brings up when talking about Kyon and Haruhi's trust of each other.

Haruhi trusts Kyon to win this thing.
Kyon trusts Haruhi not to blow up the world if they lose.
Itsuki is envious of this relationship, though it means less work for him so he's happy about it, I guess.
Mikuru is lost...but that's normal.
Yuki is actually interested in the computer game and winning, rather than observing Haruhi. Still takes orders from Kyon rather than Haruhi.

[Triple_R]

Turns backgrounds back into KyoAni artwork....

And that is the greatest miracle of all. :heh:

[Stardust Romance]

I like Koizumi's hair flippy-thing that he does talking to Kyon later on lol.

Anywayz, I never thought Haruhi could turn out any worse than she did before, but I guess she did. I don't think Kyon overeacted. Haruhi's treatement towards Mikuru irked him more and more throughout the shootings and it was just a matter of time before his frustration broke through. I think we all know that feeling & can relate to the sudden change of tone & mood ;) But in order to become a better person, you have to be at your worst at some point so I can see Haruhi's developement in that ( I keep on forgetting when all the events happen in this rerun >__< )

And I think Mikuru's moe antics are working on me. I wanted to protect her from evil Haruhi throwing her into that dirty water.

And Yuki would make a cool vampire.
I enjoyed this episode <3

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

And Yuki would make a cool vampire.

*in a monotone voice* The mistress desires your presence...

[Ahiru77]

I hate Haruhi. Hated hated hated hated hated this episode. Hated it!!

Hated every simpering stupid vacant audience-insulting moment of it. Hated the sensibility that thought anyone would like it. Hated the implied insult to the audience by its belief that anyone would be entertained by it.

[phizzy]

Nice trolling bro.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

I found it amusing.

[GMT]

I hate Haruhi. Hated hated hated hated hated this episode. Hated it!!

Hated every simpering stupid vacant audience-insulting moment of it. Hated the sensibility that thought anyone would like it. Hated the implied insult to the audience by its belief that anyone would be entertained by it.
This is what happens when you let Angry Kyon hijack your keyboard, ladies and gentlemen.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

I thought it was what happened when people don't even bother to check their facts before blindly posting (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlexxpmjrh25rbg).

[velderia]

I thought this episode went a bit far in several different places. Haruhi seems so... flat now. It's not even funny. Maybe it's because I haven't read the light novels, but the more I watch this, the more I want to slap her around myself. I'm one of the last people to advocate violence like that.


This is a "Painful" for me. I can't bring it any higher than that. There wasn't much that I liked about this episode. Sure, it explained some things, but... I don't know. It's like rewatching someone going through a trauma. Hopefully it'll be a last 1/10.

[Akka]

For those of you who are still calling Haruhi a sociopath... rewatch Live Alive after this arc is over, please.
She is a sociopath.
She gets better.

Don't see how it changes the fact that, right now, she's one.
Many people are actually put off by this - it's their right. I still enjoy the show, but I also have the itches to slam her head against a wall and teach her some manners (yeah, violence doesn't solve things, but it's cathartic :D).
I thought one of the point of Haruhi was to show, in fact, what WAS a "funny jerkass". Not just the funny sides, also the painful ones. And she still gets quite a lot of free passes and plot immunity out of it :p

[Kaisos Erranon]

She is a sociopath.
She gets better.

Sociopaths, by definition, do not get better.

Ergo, Haruhi is not a sociopath. She might have some sociopathic behavior, but she isn't a sociopath.

[Heminga13]

Yes, right now she is very bad. It's just that in this case we can remind people she gets better because they've already seen her better (unless this is their first time watching the series).

[Akka]

Sociopaths, by definition, do not get better.

Ergo, Haruhi is not a sociopath. She might have some sociopathic behavior, but she isn't a sociopath.
People, by definition, aren't gods.

Ergo, Haruhi is not god.
Hu ?

I think you forgot this is anime and not reality.
Yeah, sociopaths usually don't improve IRL. But Haruhi isn't a real-life character. So she can - you can write it as an error from the author, but that's it. She has quite a bit too much of "sociopathic behaviour" not to be the true thing in my mind.

[velderia]

I don't think she's a true sociopath. Just REALLY dead-on oblivious to what's she is, and REALLY lucky, thus thinking that everything that comes her way will be alright and accidents/mistakes can be easily forgiven.

In this show we have to constantly remind ourselves that the Brigade minus Haruhi knows what is going on. Tsuruya was really oblivious too. She didn't know what the other members were going through and thought the spiked milk and the megaphone tapping was a cute idea.

[sunny_ta]

great episode. the payoff from sighs is starting to rear its head, and it's beginning to feel as compelling as the melancholy was. i can understand the frustration some of you are having with it and its lack of plot or exciting developments, but i think the entire arc has some hidden perks to its presentation.

the theme of the arc is, as per usual, haruhi's indirect effect on the world through her emotions and desires. this is more than evident with this arc once you consider what is really going on. aside from the less discreet happenings (the white pigeons, cherry blossoms, mikuru beam), haruhi appears to be affecting the sos brigade as well. the rise in melodrama and altered characterization appears to imply that haruhi is losing her ability to deter the fictional world from the real world. her confusion between the two, regardless of her common sense, seems to be making the cast more dramatic and theatrical, which would explain things like kyon's overreaction to mikuru being abused. even the music has taken a step towards that. when you look at it that way, the arc unveils a depth that gives it more brilliance than the "behind the scenes" impression it originally expresses.

in addition to that, the continual flow of the episodes and how they never really feel like they've ended properly make the experience feel cohesive on a grandiose scale, tantamount to an actual movie. i find that especially neat.

yeah, i'm really enjoying this arc, even if i'm possibly looking too deeply into it.

[ReneeBurossamu]

I just watched the subs.
Even when she's drunk, Mikuru apparently still has "classified" burned into her brain.

[Triple_R]

Overall, I've enjoyed this arc a lot. :)

That being said... I can really see now why they want with the chronologically disorganized order back in 2006. Not only did it give you a better climax (the kiss episode vs. Someday in the Rain), but it also spread things out in a way that may have been for the better anyway.

I can see how people might be getting tired of watching Mikuru get heavily abused week after week after week.

Me? It never really had much of an emotional impact on me until this week, but then, I'm not a huge Mikuru fan.

[velderia]

I just watched the subs.
Even when she's drunk, Mikuru apparently still has "classified" burned into her brain.

LOL :heh:

I hope if I ever end up drunk, I'll have the same thing burned into my brain.

[GMT]

How to review this episode? As LN readers know, this is the point where Haruhi reaches her moral nadir. The fact that the LNs continue for seven more volumes after this shows that, well, she gets better. Well enough that people are willing to continue to read about Haruhi's world.

And then it got adapted for the anime. Haruhi's Dark Side, in all its ugliness is on stark, unflinching display. Here, we have someone who, not only flirts with The Line, but would cheerfully go screaming over The Line, and over the moral event horizon beyond if not properly restrained.

She pushed Kyon to the very limit of his seemingly unending patience. So much so that Kyon, of all people, lost it. Were it not for Koizumi, he would've pounded Haruhi into next week. And a good lawyer would've gotten him off on self-defense. Trying to deflect her with words didn't work. As we all recall, Kyon was pushed far enough last week to physically man-handle Haruhi. And that didn't work either. Trying to pound some sense into Haruhi was the least-unpleasant option out of a whole plate of really unpleasant options presented to Kyon. And his dialogue makes it clear that he's doing it because he cares about Haruhi, and what could happen to her if he does nothing.

As we saw in this episode, Haruhi got the shock of her short life . . . that what she's doing has finally gotten to the one person whose thoughts and feelings she genuinely cares about. The storm of emotions which flashed across her face was beautifully done, as was her attempt to hide them by lashing out (only after it was clear Koizumi had Angry Kyon safely restrained.) And then everybody reacting to Kyon attempting to pull free, while letting Haruhi feel the full force of his rhetoric, was excellent. Even the normally-unfazable Tsuruya's expression tells us that this is no longer a laughing matter.

Koizumi is also in rare form this week. Here we see a man who seems to be making it clear that he does what he does because he feels its his duty to protect the world from Haruhi's brand of weirdness. His, and Kyon's, dejectedly gazing at the cherry blossoms that Kyon caused by, essentially, caving in to Haruhi, was especially poignant.

I gave this episode a 9 out of 10. Only a nine because, well, I never give 10s.

[Roger Rambo]

Could someone please explain to me what the hell is up with Kyon's fist? Was he trying to break his curled fingers on the top of Haruhi's head?


http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8683/lamestance.png
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/772/lamestance2.png

Why have people been calling this a falcon punch?

[Heminga13]

Itsuki may have been the one who pulled Kyon's arm upright when he grabbed it. It almost seemed like Kyon was moving his arm back then realized it was grabbed. Although I think Kyon was already moving it upright to begin with but I couldn't tell for sure.

[GMT]

Could someone please explain to me what the hell is up with Kyon's fist? Was he trying to break his curled fingers on the top of Haruhi's head?


http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8683/lamestance.png
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/772/lamestance2.png

Why have people been calling this a falcon punch?
It looked like he was going to pull a Mio and bring his fist down on top of Haruhi's head. It wasn't supposed to be a knock-out punch but more of a . . . physical correction of Haruhi's idiocy. Or something.

[Roger Rambo]

Itsuki may have been the one who pulled Kyon's arm upright when he grabbed it. It almost seemed like Kyon was moving his arm back then realized it was grabbed. Although I think Kyon was already moving it upright to begin with but I couldn't tell for sure.
That's not it. If you rewatch 14:07-14:08 a couple of time you'll realize that Kyon brought his hand up, the bottom side of his fist facing Haruhi and was moving it forward to strike her when Koizumi grabbed him.

So Kyon was trying to hammer Haruhi in the head with his fingers.

It looked like he was going to pull a Mio and bring his fist down on top of Haruhi's head.
With the way the punch was flying he wasn't gonna hit her with his fist. He was gonna hit her with his curled up fingers. you do not hit people with your fingers

The guys at Kyoani haven't gotten into nearly enough fights.

It wasn't supposed to be a knock-out punch but more of a . . . physical correction of Haruhi's idiocy. Or something.
It looked like Kyon was pretty serious about hitting Haruhi hard...but he was aiming for the top of her head.

Seriously punching someone on the top of the head is stupid. The skull is one of the hardest bones in the body. Even if we assume that Kyon wasn't actually going to hit Haruhi with his curled fingers (it really looks like that in slow mo), a hit with the knuckles isn't that much brighter of a thing to do.

[Heminga13]

Yeah, it's a really fast part of the scene but he does bring it up. Maybe he was planning to slap her?

[Akka]

Could someone please explain to me what the hell is up with Kyon's fist? Was he trying to break his curled fingers on the top of Haruhi's head?

Why have people been calling this a falcon punch?
I would guess that his fist is pointing upward simply because Koizomi has grabbed it.

When regular people arm a punch, they do it usually by pulling their elbow backward, putting the forearm into an upward diagonal position. The arm ends up being a bit higher than the shoulder. If you grab the wrist at this time, it will end up with the arm pointing vertically.
As for the fist itself, well, it's a standard one when you want to smash it into people's face :p

[Triple_R]

How to review this episode? As LN readers know, this is the point where Haruhi reaches her moral nadir. The fact that the LNs continue for seven more volumes after this shows that, well, she gets better. Well enough that people are willing to continue to read about Haruhi's world.

And then it got adapted for the anime. Haruhi's Dark Side, in all its ugliness is on stark, unflinching display. Here, we have someone who, not only flirts with The Line, but would cheerfully go screaming over The Line, and over the moral event horizon beyond if not properly restrained.

She pushed Kyon to the very limit of his seemingly unending patience. So much so that Kyon, of all people, lost it. Were it not for Koizumi, he would've pounded Haruhi into next week. And a good lawyer would've gotten him off on self-defense. Trying to deflect her with words didn't work. As we all recall, Kyon was pushed far enough last week to physically man-handle Haruhi. And that didn't work either. Trying to pound some sense into Haruhi was the least-unpleasant option out of a whole plate of really unpleasant options presented to Kyon. And his dialogue makes it clear that he's doing it because he cares about Haruhi, and what could happen to her if he does nothing.

Good review, overall, GMT, but... Kyon's doing this for Mikuru. That's the main reason why he's doing it. Haruhi's the secondary concern. Yes, he cares about Haruhi as well, but he's mainly doing it because he's sick and tired of watching Mikuru get abused. It's no coincidence that what finally calms Kyon down is a sprawling drunk Mikuru grabbing on to him and telling him to stop it.

I know that most folks here are KyonHaruhi shippers, but honestly folks... this is a KyonMikuru episode if ever there was one, and trying to twist it into a KyonHaruhi episode seems a bit wrong to me.

Seriously, it's like every little thing Kyon does has to be interpreted through a KyonHaruhi shipper lens, even when if you take his actions at face value at all, it means something different.

And then the response to Haruhi almost putting on a pony tail. Good grief, did this thread make a huge deal about that... :heh: You'd swear Haruhi just asked Kyon to have sex with her, or something.


Could someone please explain to me what the hell is up with Kyon's fist? Was he trying to break his curled fingers on the top of Haruhi's head?


http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8683/lamestance.png
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/772/lamestance2.png

Why have people been calling this a falcon punch?

Well, Captain Falcon's punch hit Black Shadow on the top of his head too, IIRC. ;)

[Roger Rambo]

Yeah, it's a really fast part of the scene but he does bring it up. Maybe he was planning to slap her?
You don't slap people with a fist.
I would guess that his fist is pointing upward simply because Koizomi has grabbed it.
No. Kyon brought his arm and fist up to that position, tried to lurch forward to hit Haruhi and THEN got grabbed. The orientation that Koizumi held Kyon is was the orientation he was swinging down at Haruhi with.

So logically speaking Kyon would have swung his fist downward and hit Haruhi on the head with his curled fingers.

Well, Captain Falcon's punch hit Black Shadow on the top of his head too, IIRC. ;)
Captain Falcon hits people with his knuckles and then breaks them.

Captain Kyon hits people with his curled fingers and then breaks them.

[Triple_R]

You don't slap people with a fist.

No. Kyon brought his arm and fist up to that position, tried to lurch forward to hit Haruhi and THEN got grabbed. The orientation that Koizumi held Kyon is was the orientation he was swinging down at Haruhi with.

So logically speaking Kyon would have swung his fist downward and hit Haruhi on the head with his curled fingers.

Captain Falcon hits people with his knuckles and then breaks them.

Captain Kyon hits people with his curled fingers and then breaks them.

Well, in all seriousness, maybe he was planning to pull his punch at the last second. Maybe give Haruhi a black eye, perhaps.

[Ithekro]

Or he doesn't know how to throw a punch. I don't.

[Roger Rambo]

Well, in all seriousness, maybe he was planning to pull his punch at the last second. Maybe give Haruhi a black eye, perhaps.
Kyon was obviously not trying to do that. He was seriously trying to hit Haruhi. But that doesn't alleviate the fundamental problem here. Kyon was trying to hit Haruhi with his curled fingers. It doesn't matter where you're trying to hit them when you do this. You're fingers are filled with loads of delicate little bones that break easily. That's why you typically don't bludgeon people with your fingers. You hit em with sturdier parts of your anatomy.

I'm pretty sure 3/4's of the people on animesuki could kick Kyon's ass at this point.

Or he doesn't know how to throw a punch. I don't.
Most people don't know how to throw a good punch. But at the same time I think most people can manage to throw a punch that won't break their hand.


Its lahk try-yun ter fight inna basement. Ya don't fight inna basement!

[Heminga13]

If I were to slap someone, I wouldn't necessarily open my hand out until I swing towards the person. It wouldn't seem unnatural to me to pull back with a fist first. Not that I've slapped anyone, mind you.

[Triple_R]

Kyon was obviously not trying to do that. He was seriously trying to hit Haruhi. But that doesn't alleviate the fundamental problem here. Kyon was trying to hit Haruhi with his curled fingers. It doesn't matter where you're trying to hit them when you do this. You're fingers are filled with loads of delicate little bones that break easily. That's why you typically don't bludgeon people with your fingers. You hit em with sturdier parts of your anatomy.

I'm pretty sure 3/4's of the people on animesuki could kick Kyon's ass at this point.

... Ok, KyoAni could have drawn the fist/arm position better. Happy now? :heh:

I was mainly focusing on punch trajectory when I brought up the black eye possibility. You're right, his knuckles are what should be aiming towards Haruhi. His fingers are in hard shape if they connect Haruhi's head that way.

Anyway, Roger, thanks to you I have a new appreciation for that scene.

Itsuki (thinking to himself): Kyon, you idiot! I can't have you go breaking your hand like that! It would ruin all the FABULOUS plans that I have for the two of us... *Ahem* ;)

That's also the real meaning behind Itsuki's stern look, lol.

[Akka]

Because this sidetrack is actually fun : I watched it again image by image.
It seems that he wanted to try what we call a tetsui (IIRC the spelling) : that is, a downward smash with the low part of the closed hand, like this : http://karate.snowcron.com/pictures/tetsui.gif.

It's not how I would have intuitively hit someone, but then Haruhi is smaller than him, and it's probably psychologically easier for most people to hit a girl on the top of the head rather than square in the face.

[Heminga13]

So Kyon's more like the Hulk instead of Captain Falcon.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

KYON SMASH!

... meanwhile, Mikuru smashed. :p

[KaneDragon]

I always interpreted Koizumi's expression when he stops Kyon from slugging Haruhi to mean "You fool! You'll doom us all!" (as in "seriously offend her and she'll reboot the world")
Kyon's fists shatter worlds. :heh: Reboot her before she reboots you. :)

Really enjoyed Kyon calling Haruhi out for her attitude, Haruhi's shock when she saw the fist, her depression afterward, and the return of the experimental mini-ponytail.

KYON, YOU HAVE TWO HANDS ! If this idiot Koizumi hold one, PUNCH THE BITCH WITH THE OTHER !
We think the same. But then I got to thinking...
Use your legs then ! HIGH-KICK TO THE FACE !
Right, using Strong Man Koizumi to push off of. Would have worked even better. ;)

[Kaioshin Sama]

Episode 23 article is up:

[RIUVA] Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu (2009), Episode 23: Suzumiya Haruhi no Tameiki IV (http://www.riuva.com/?p=1497)

This. This is the Suzumiya Haruhi I remember. 10/10.

Yeah....not quite for me. There was like all of one moment that I could point to and say was at all memorable or exceptionally well done about this episode versus several dozen in your average episode of the first season (I think my favourite is still the baseball episode), and really I still say Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody was the only really solid episode in the long run. Not my idea of a return to form by a long shot. If this is where people want to draw the line and say "this is Haruhi/anime at it's finest" then so be it, but I still expect a lot more out of a studio and anime that is supposed to theoretically be top class. This is still just way to shaky and gives that all to dreaded second season feeling of rehashing things, but I guess if I were to adopt the standard of the episode just existing and the characters doing their usual things with one decent dramatic twist as one to praise the producers highly for then I'd be giving it a 10/10 too.

I also have to disagree that the animation this episode was at all exceptional, but merely above average. I've seen better usage of the cherry blossom effect in other shows and just plain better animation from this studio period that you'd think they would be putting into one of their most popular franchises. Maybe this really is all there is too Kyoani/Kadokawa's adaptation of Haruhi and this is the standard I should settle for, but it's still disappointing and in my opinion not the top class work it's been made out to be anymore if it ever really was. These characters no longer come across as very fresh or well thought out to me and neither does the overall narrative for that matter, but oh well I guess they are at least good to look at and easy on the eyes.

I guess there's two sides to how I watch this show. One side has me just kicking back and letting it do whatever and chuckling at it for what it is (even if it's still far from the most entertaining show I'm watching this season), the other side expects it to live up to more than just a fraction of the hype it has always gotten and for it to earn some real praise that I could actually put some serious weight behind rather than just a token gesture.

[Roger Rambo]

Because this sidetrack is actually fun : I watched it again image by image.
It seems that he wanted to try what we call a tetsui (IIRC the spelling) : that is, a downward smash with the low part of the closed hand, like this : http://karate.snowcron.com/pictures/tetsui.gif.
Of course that involves having your hand turned on it's side, rather than level. The latter of which being what Kyon's hand was like. So unless was planning to twist his hand into a proper hammer strike, he was gonna hit with his fingers rather than with the bottom of his fist.

Given Kyon's lack any sort of formal or even amateur HTH fighting experiance, I somehow doubt this was the case.


It seems far more likely that the animators didn't stop to visualize what a successful strike actually looks like before sitting down and doing the scene.

So Kyon's more like the Hulk instead of Captain Falcon.
Relatively speaking, yes.

Of course Hulk ussually doesn't try smashing with his fingers :p

[Dr. Casey]

However, all of the above stated... Haruhi really crossed the line in this episode. Even I, one of her more passionate defenders, can't defend her here. Her treatment of Mikuru in Tsuruya's house is just beyond the pale, and reflects a mind that, frankly, is just out of it.

Totally out of it.

It's not even that Haruhi is being cruel; it's that she doesn't even realize that she's being cruel. She doesn't even seem to view other people as human beings with some basic human rights - no, scratch that, it's deeper than that. Haruhi doesn't even understand why Kyon is getting upset. Even if Haruhi doesn't view other people as human beings with some basic human rights, she should still be cognizant of the fact that most people do... including Kyon.

As a whole, I think that Sigh (the novel) took Haruhi too far. It took her over the edge, I think. While it was nice to see an intense Kyon vs Haruhi bit, the lead-up to it just stretched Haruhi's character beyond the breaking point for me. I don't know - I just would have preferred it if Haruhi's actions were cold (cold enough to legitimately get a rise out of Kyon) but at least understandable. How can Haruhi think the way that she does in this episode? It actually makes her look breathtakingly ignorant and/or stupid, frankly. How Haruhi can be so good at school, and yet be this ignorant of what most people would call "common sense", is beyond me.

For this reason, I can't give this episode a 10. I give it a 9. In fairness, it's not KyoAni's fault - the novel itself is at fault here, imo; there's nothing KyoAni could do about it, short of major alteration. Still, it means that this episode presents Haruhi's character in a way that detracts a great deal from my appreciation of it.

Other than that, an excellent episode.

Hmm... is this mostly related to the quote about Mikuru being Haruhi's toy? Because I'm not sure that's supposed to be taken at face value. I interpreted that as Haruhi just being defensive and antagonistic because Kyon hurt her feelings; she was getting pretty emotional even before the attempted punch. So I don't know if her views are quite as extreme as they seem (Even if there's certainly some truth to that statement of hers). I might be wrong, of course, but 'She got worked up and became more of a douchemaster because of it' sounds valid enough to me.

[Sackett]

Of course that involves having your hand turned on it's side, rather than level. The latter of which being what Kyon's hand was like. So unless was planning to twist his hand into a proper hammer strike, he was gonna hit with his fingers rather than with the bottom of his fist.

Given Kyon's lack any sort of formal or even amateur HTH fighting experiance, I somehow doubt this was the case.


It seems far more likely that the animators didn't stop to visualize what a successful strike actually looks like before sitting down and doing the scene.


Relatively speaking, yes.

Of course Hulk ussually doesn't try smashing with his fingers :p


Maybe he was planning a roundhouse + smash? Swing the fist out and around to smash Haruhi in the side of the face with the bottom of his fist?

Obviously Kyon is not a serious fighter. Not sure that means he couldn't win a fight, just that he'd probably waste a lot of energy and get roughed up doing it cause he doesn't really know how.

[Jintor]

And a good lawyer would've gotten him off on self-defense.

Point of order: No lawyer could possibly have gotton Kyon for self-defence (self-defence implies usage of reasonable force in retaliation).

[Akka]

Of course that involves having your hand turned on it's side, rather than level. The latter of which being what Kyon's hand was like. So unless was planning to twist his hand into a proper hammer strike, he was gonna hit with his fingers rather than with the bottom of his fist.
If you look closely, the very last image of the fist rising (in Haruhi's eye reflection), he starts to turn it vertically. And when it's grabbed by Koizumi in the two-three next images, it's already turned on its side.

So he was actually already in the "hammering" motion. Guess he was trying to hit the nail of the problem on the head :p
Given Kyon's lack any sort of formal or even amateur HTH fighting experiance, I somehow doubt this was the case.
Actually, the tetsui is quite commonly used by people not trained in close-combat. It's the simplest up-down hit. A trained fighter will simply use it at more appropriate moments and make a better move when he does, but this punch (and the roundhouse punch) are the ones untrained people actually use in a fight.
The more "professionnal" punches are in fact the straight and backhand ones.
Point of order: No lawyer could possibly have gotton Kyon for self-defence (self-defence implies usage of reasonable force in retaliation).
I think it was rather more for the fun of the phrasing and not a strict point of law, you know :p
And anyway, what level is "reasonable force" when you're facing someone who can simply erase the whole world out of existence ? :p

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

You're going to have to prove that in a court of law for it to be used as a defense. :heh:

[Akka]

You're going to have to prove that in a court of law for it to be used as a defense. :heh:
I'll ask Yuki to alter the reality to resolve the problem :p

[Roger Rambo]

If you look closely, the very last image of the fist rising (in Haruhi's eye reflection), he starts to turn it vertically. And when it's grabbed by Koizumi in the two-three next images, it's already turned on its side.

So he was actually already in the "hammering" motion. Guess he was trying to hit the nail of the problem on the head :p
I'm not sure you can tell what he was doing as he came down from that frame. It looked liked that motion was him bringing the arm up.

[Akka]

I'm not sure you can tell what he was doing as he came down from that frame. It looked liked that motion was him bringing the arm up.
The reflection in Haruhi's eye is the arm-up, which already can give a pretty good idea of how he was going to strike.
The next shot is the arm actually going down on Haruhi before being caught by Koizumi. It confirms that it seemed to be a tetsui.

And yes, I've actually nothing better to do with my time than looking at an anime frame by frame to see which kind of punch one character was about to land on another character.

[Roger Rambo]

The next shot is the arm actually going down on Haruhi before being caught by Koizumi. It confirms that it seemed to be a tetsui.
In the shot where Koizumi grabs Kyon's hand, you can't exactly see what position the fist is in. I couldn't really identify any distinguishable twist.

Of course that shot was only a few frames, so I may be having trouble pausing on those shots.

[ac195]

Lets face it, after seeing that "punch" from Kyon... Haruhi has nothing to worry about.

I'll say it again... this is how you throw a punch.
oJA6cqPrJUA

[Little Buster]

Just finished watching the new episode with subtitles and...WOW! All i was thinking was
KYON PUNCH!!!!

And then, the cut it right before the get to the Cat.

[War_Lord]

I'm always amazed at how fans notice the smallest details in an anime show and magnify/exaggerate it into something epic (and thus makes me feel like I'm missing out on something that I normally wouldn't see as a big deal). Haruhi growing a ponytail in this episode is one example. I guess when you have a show that doesn't come with a lot of bells and whistles, you can't help but notice (and appreciate in some cases) the subtle things.

After watching, I was almost certain people were gonna bash Kyon for over reacting to Haruhi's bullying Miku-chan. And yet to my surprise, a lot of people felt his reaction was justified (and even long anticipated). I feel Kyon's reaction was justified, but Haruhi deserved a slap, not a punch, lol. My heart was racing in this scene, I was scared Haruhi was gonna erase the universe. I at least expected something similar to the endless 8 to happen. Perhaps her powers occur more when she's restless/dissatisfied rather than depressed. In any event, I was never fond of her attitude and it doesn't help that she's oblivious to the feelings of the people around her. It's a good thing she's cute.

Overall I rate this episode a 10/10, this is the first episode of the 2nd season that felt like a new episode. That alone justifies the perfect score (Well that and Tsuruya making a reappearance, god I missed her). Although I still can't get the bitter taste of E8 out of my mouth.

[mokuseimaru]

I haven't finished the episode, but about the Kyon Fist: he probably meant to hit with his knuckles, not with the flats of his fingers; people who have never thrown a punch but have seen a fair share of action movies (i.e., Kyon) tend to think this is how you're supposed to punch someone until they actually try it and break their hand.

As for why his hand was raised like that: he was winding up, like a pitcher. It's pretty much instinctual that if you're going to punch someone, you had better put the weight of your whole body and not just your arm if you want it too be any more that a closed-palm slap.

[Triple_R]

Hmm... is this mostly related to the quote about Mikuru being Haruhi's toy?

Mostly. That... and bopping the drowsy Mikuru on the head in frustration after Haruhi was one of the two people who made Mikuru like that to begin with. The bopping thing is just standard fare douchebaggery, though - it's facepalm worthy, but not quite as bad as the "I've decided that Mikuru is my toy!" line.




Because I'm not sure that's supposed to be taken at face value. I interpreted that as Haruhi just being defensive and antagonistic because Kyon hurt her feelings; she was getting pretty emotional even before the attempted punch. So I don't know if her views are quite as extreme as they seem (Even if there's certainly some truth to that statement of hers). I might be wrong, of course, but 'She got worked up and became more of a douchemaster because of it' sounds valid enough to me.

After re-watching... you could very well be right. Kyon's not the only one snapping here. Haruhi looks like she snapped too. The way she put her hand on her heart when saying "my toy" was... interesting to me.

... Maybe Haruhi is trying to say "Well, she's not your toy, Kyon! I'm sick and tired of seeing you treat her like your toy! ...So to stop that, I'm making her my toy, so there!" ? Perhaps the line has more to do with Haruhi's jealousy over Kyon's affections for Mikuru than anything truly malicious or evil or utterly out of it.

[Hari Michiru]

Haven't felt this emotionally angry for an anime for a while. If I were Kyon, I would have slapped Haruhi, regardless if the universe was going to end or not. You just don't abuse people like that, even if it is due to jealously.

[Kid Ying]

The popular belief in parenting is that if you are going to punish your kids, make sure you tell them why exactly they are being punished. Haruhi, for all intent and purpose, is a child. Kyon's action, in this case, is appropriate considering he can recognize why Koizumi, Yuki, and Mikuru-chan (in her infinite cutesy way) have to tolerate Haruhi's abundant energy and go with her shinanigans. Kyon recognizes that they simply fear the implication that there are too much for them to lose.

I agree that he was going overboard, but something was needed to be done. I couldn't also help but notice how Koizumi did not interject when Kyon was pretty much shouting at her. Kyon did the job. He did not let her slide, but did not crush her enthusiasm altogether either. He made sure of that. We know it worked when the cherry blossoms were in full bloom.

Kyon was starting to become boring, but the episode has restored some of his charm that was found in the previous season. This was a good episode.
I understand the reasons for Kyon getting crazy, it wasn't something all of sudden, but it was too much. I mean, shouting at her? Okay. Slapping her? Well... I understand. But a fist? Against a girl? That's what i think it was overreacting from his part. It wasn't like Haruhi was beating Mikuru for good or something like that to act like this... Imho.

I understand Kyon's point, i just think he was going way too far with that. It looked like Haruhi was hitting Mikuru with an axe, hehe.

Well, Kyon was giving so much attention to Mikuru that i understand why Haruhi was bullying her so badly, she was just jealous, specially at Kyon snapping because of the kiss scene...

[chikorita157]

From looking at some of the screenshots, it seems that they finally got the animation right since there is a lack of K-ON! art style, but I'll take a look for myself once the afk subs are out...

I'm expecting that Haruhi is a you-know-what in this episode too. ;)

[Ithekro]

Considering how worked up he got narrating that scene (or one very much like it that he wasn't present for filming), yeah.

[Triple_R]

... I've developed a theory.

I'm debating with myself whether or not to post it because...

1) If well-received, it's going to make the KyonHaruhi shipdom even more burgeoning, and even more searching for romance in every nook and cranny, than it already is. :heh:

2) If well-received, it at least makes Haruhi look smart again, if not sympathetic. I don't mind Haruhi looking villainous; that can be fun from time-to-time; but I hate the thought of her looking outright stupid.

... Well, I'm going to throw this out there anyway, since my appreciation of Haruhi's character is greater than my annoyance at every scene being filtered through a KyonHaruhi shipper lens.


Perhaps a big secondary goal of Haruhi's with this movie... is to utterly destroy any chance of KyonMikuru ever happening.

Think about it. This movie puts Mikuru right through the ringer; it wears her down and instead of simply making Mikuru look cute or sexy, it makes her look abused and worn out. Certainly, a whimpering Mikuru dripping in dirty water isn't as attractive a sight as a smiling Mikuru in a maid outfit serving you tea.

But, of course, there's the piece de resistance... getting Kyon, the cameraman, to film Koizumi kissing Mikuru "mouth on mouth!" (as Haruhi passionately demanded for). Perhaps Haruhi's thinking is that once Kyon watches Koizumi kiss Mikuru, then that's it - Kyon could never view Mikuru in the same light again. Maybe Haruhi is hoping that Kyon's interest in Mikuru will dwindle in the light of knowing that Koizumi's lips have touched Mikuru's, even if it was just for a movie scene.

All told, maybe a big part of the idea behind this movie production is Haruhi's elaborate scheme to make Kyon lose all romantic desire for Mikuru. If so... it's a bit evil, but it's also genius.

Now, if you run with this theory, Haruhi's reaction to Kyon makes perfect sense all-around. When Kyon tells Koizumi to not kiss Mikuru, it's doing three annoying things for Haruhi all at the same time...

1) On a basic level, Kyon is flat-out contradicting a direct command from Haruhi. In Haruhi's mind, I imagine that it's nothing less than a direct challenge to her authority and leadership of the Brigade. Anime-wise, it doesn't help that this came after the end of E8 which saw Kyon seemingly (in Haruhi's eyes) try to usurp her role as leader of the SOS Brigade with how he loudly invited everybody but her over to his place to help him with his homework. A dirty coup d'etat combined with leaving her out of the action entirely... and now he's trying a coup d'etat again. Yes, I can certainly see Haruhi getting quite upset at that.


2) Secondly, Kyon is foiling her diabolical scheme. :heh: He's getting in the way of the piece de resistance.


3) Thirdly, Kyon is, once again, showing affection and caring for Mikuru here; more than he overtly shows for Haruhi.

All-told, that's quite the three-pronged emotional whammy all in one act: Insubordination, plot-foiling, and showing more overt concern for Mikuru than for Haruhi.


However, Haruhi quickly regains her composure, and tries to make Mikuru more alert so that her plot won't be foiled. However, her means of doing that enrages Kyon even more, leading to the shouting confrontation between them.

At this point, it's probably clear to Haruhi that her plot is foiled beyond repair. So, she quickly conceives and takes hold of a Plan B! Since Plan B is total improvisation, it's not all that good. Plan B is trying to tear Kyon and Mikuru apart for good by telling Kyon that Mikuru is Haruhi's toy.

Not surprisingly, Kyon takes this the way I took it, and he gets enraged and throws a punch.

... It now occurs to me that Haruhi might see all of this as Kyon's way of insisting upon the continuation of his close relationship (as Haruhi probably sees it) with Mikuru. Kyon here is the manly man doing all he can to keep his relationship with Mikuru alive, and by golly, if he has to pound even Haruhi to keep it alive, he will! :heh:

So, this is what Haruhi is looking at here (from her perspective)...

1) Kyon trying to pull a coup d'etat against her... twice now.

2) Kyon foiling her carefully laid plot.

3) Kyon showing way more caring for Mikuru than for Haruhi

4) In fact, Kyon liking Mikuru so much more than Haruhi that he's actually willing to pound Haruhi just to keep his relationship with Mikuru alive.


This is total, utter rebellion and rejection in Haruhi's eyes. And from her best friend to boot. It's amazing how she could hold those tears back at all.


Well, that's my theory. What do other people here think?

[Zek]

I understand the reasons for Kyon getting crazy, it wasn't something all of sudden, but it was too much. I mean, shouting at her? Okay. Slapping her? Well... I understand. But a fist? Against a girl? That's what i think it was overreacting from his part. It wasn't like Haruhi was beating Mikuru for good or something like that to act like this... Imho.

I understand Kyon's point, i just think he was going way too far with that. It looked like Haruhi was hitting Mikuru with an axe, hehe.

Well, Kyon was giving so much attention to Mikuru that i understand why Haruhi was bullying her so badly, she was just jealous, specially at Kyon snapping because of the kiss scene...

Of course he went too far, I don't think it's meant to be implied that he did the right thing. Koizumi stopped him for a reason. I think Kyon overreacted because he was fed up with being so powerless against Haruhi all the time. Had he understood her better he would have realized that just shouting at her and refusing to cooperate would probably have been enough to get her to realize she's crossed the line, but he's just a teen too and not a whole lot more mature than she is.

[Ascaloth]

@Triple_R,

I like it way much. Post it up. :D

[Ithekro]

However, it plays right into the hands of the KyonxYuki shipping group.

[Triple_R]

@Triple_R,

I like it way much. Post it up. :D

Glad you like it. :D I was debating whether or not to post it up here on Anime Suki. I eventually decided to do so. I might eventually put it on my blog too, though.


However, it plays right into the hands of the KyonxYuki shipping group.

It... does? How so? I mean, my theory (I have to admit) means Haruhi is madly in love with Kyon; maybe even beyond a level that Kaisos would promote.

Haruhi's actually putting plots together to destroy the competition; she's at the level of a Ranma Saotome fiance. :heh:

[Khu]

Well, considering that Haruhi was trying to put her hair in a ponytail when Kyon walked in...it could simply mean that Haruhi wants Kyon to like her more than anyone else.
In which case, could this mean that all she wants/needs to feel special is if Kyon loves her? Maybe, as she reversed the dream after Kyon kissed her, meaning that she then wanted to also return. This sudden change of heart is most likely from that kiss (I mean, did anything else actually happen?) Following this train of thought, then it would be that she doesn't want Kyon to change from liking her, thus leading to what Triple_R said... if this was your theory, sorry XD

Augh burn from trying to post at the same time ><

[Kaisos Erranon]

It... does? How so? I mean, my theory (I have to admit) means Haruhi is madly in love with Kyon; maybe even beyond a level that Kaisos would promote.

No, that's pretty much the level I assumed, yeah.

[Ithekro]

Knocks Mikuru out of the running and paints Haruhi in a evil light. That leaves on non-gay SOS-dan member option....Yuki. However there is a fix (known) to revert to KyonxHaruhi shipping (which is actually the only logical pairing that exists in the series after "Sometimes in the Rain"....or at least that is what one would expect).....

[Triple_R]

Knocks Mikuru out of the running and paints Haruhi in a evil light.

Ah, I see.

Well, there's kind of no way to not see Haruhi in an evil light in this particular arc. :heh:

As is, I'm just trying to make her look smart, at least.


That leaves one non-gay SOS-dan member option....Yuki. However there is a fix (known) to revert to KyonxHaruhi shipping (which is actually the only logical pairing that exists in the series after "Sometimes in the Rain"....or at least that is what one would expect).....

"Sometimes in the Rain"... isn't that the anime original episode? If so, I don't know how much stock I'd put in it.

[Khu]

Well...

a) Haruhi stayed behind for Kyon WHILE HE WAS SLEEPING
b) Haruhi offered her umbrella to Kyon
c) They proceeded to walk home together)
d) Haruhi WANTED HIM TO COME CLOSER under the guise of "not getting enough umbrella"

Weeeeee referencing :P

[Heminga13]

Tanigawa wrote Someday in the Rain for the anime.

[Kaisos Erranon]

"Sometimes in the Rain"... isn't that the anime original episode? If so, I don't know how much stock I'd put in it.

It's "Someday in the Rain", and Tanigawa was hired to write it specifically for the anime.

Edit: Dammit. Ninja'd.

[Triple_R]

Well...

a) Haruhi stayed behind for Kyon WHILE HE WAS SLEEPING
b) Haruhi offered her umbrella to Kyon
c) They proceeded to walk home together)
d) Haruhi WANTED HIM TO COME CLOSER under the guise of "not getting enough umbrella"

Weeeeee referencing :P

Yeah, there is a lot of HaruhiKyon romance hints there.

[Ithekro]

Anime original, but written by the main author, then put onto paper. Sort of like Fumoffu's hot springs episode.

[Triple_R]

Tanigawa wrote Someday in the Rain for the anime.

It's "Someday in the Rain", and Tanigawa was hired to write it specifically for the anime.

Thanks for the title correction. "Somtimes in the Rain" didn't sound right to me, either, but I'm not good with remembering episode names, so I didn't question it.


Anime original, but written by the main author, then put onto paper. Sort of like Fumoffu's hot springs episode.

So it is canon. Interesting. Thanks for the info.

Well, it certainly helps the KyonHaruhi side quite a bit, I must say. Haruhi covering Kyon up with her cardigan in that episode is one of the three or four strongest pieces of argument in favor of KyonHaruhi, imo.

[Rice_slayer]

That's the reason why Kyon is in the SOS Brigade. Everyone here saw BLR and knows that Haruhi knows who John Smith is, and she wanted to meet him and Kyon looks like him(because he is him). Basically, Haruhi likes Kyon but is to tsundere to show it :P. Although, Koizumi probably is gay for Kyon too :P.

[monir]

Think about it. This movie puts Mikuru right through the ringer; it wears her down and instead of simply making Mikuru look cute or sexy, it makes her look abused and worn out. Certainly, a whimpering Mikuru dripping in dirty water isn't as attractive a sight as a smiling Mikuru in a maid outfit serving you tea.
Sir, have you considered writing fan-fic that will concentrate on Mikuru-specific fanservice? I was hooked in your post at "Mikuru dripping in dirty water." Serious fanservice there! Here are some reps to show my appreciation for your service to all the Mikuru-fans out there.

Kid Ying: I agree with your point of view. Raising his fist was a little disconcerting no matter how much Haruhi deserve some scolding and may be a slap or two.

[resoLv777]

Yay! for ponytail Haruhi! Kyon really needs to push that more. :D
Totally, for me, that was the best part of the Episode. Obviously Haruhi has some strong feelings for Kyon.

I was crazy tense during Kyon's outburst (I have only read the officially translated Light Novels, so I don't know what happens)... I was thinking Kyon could be vaporized or something.

I would say this Episode was about as deep and profound as the Ending of Endless eight.

10/10

[freakonboard]

Regarding Someday in the Rain.

Around 15:33, Kyon thought "The forecast said a 10% chance of rain".
So it's possible that the rain was caused by Haruhi's wish.

And for those who don't know what Ai Ai Gasa is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ai_Ai_Gasa
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TogetherUmbrella


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x177/crisuskeer/MyAnimeList/haruhiKyon05.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x177/crisuskeer/MyAnimeList/haruhiKyon03.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x177/crisuskeer/MyAnimeList/haruhiKyon04.jpg

[Kaisos Erranon]

Regarding Someday in the Rain.

Around 15:33, Kyon thought "The forecast said a 10% chance of rain".
So it's possible that the rain was caused by Haruhi's wish.

Thing is about the umbrella... Kyon isn't a moron, he had to realize what it meant.

[Kyanme]

You know, I can't say I really liked this episode.

The first half is incredibly boring, and daresay, I found it tedious to sit through. It took a lot of convincing to not click on the slider and skip a minute or so forward out of boredom. Kyon's complaining, while certainly understandable, was grating on my last nerve.

"THE SCENE" everyone's gaga over was only decent to me... Iunno. I wasn't incredibly impressed. I wasn't disappointed. It was... acceptable. Then again, I felt like that towards in the scene in the light novels, so I guess that means it was a good adaption. I was never sure why I was neutral towards that scene, though. Perhaps I'm secretly a Nazi-Feminist. :eyespin:

EHH. It does feel... so creepy knowing Itsuki's leaning over to kiss a drunk girl while he's sober. :heh:

I liked the second half because it was more interesting. Or perhaps I just like when there's more focus on my favorite character (namely, Itsuki) but I liked the tone more in the second half.

I didn't think it was bad, but I didn't think it was amazing. It was... decent. 7/10.

[Jintor]

I don't know if Haruhi is patient enough to make an entire movie project specifically to discredit Mikuru as potential competition. I'm pretty sure she just a) wanted to make a movie and b) assumed (as per usual) that everybody shares her level of enthusiasm for it (this is one of what I think of as the key factors of Haruhi; her unthinking level of assurance that the rest of the Brigade is at some level exactly the same as her, even if they don't show it).

The way I see it, Haruhi would be absolutely willing to do everything - everything - that she gets Mikuru to do. However, since she sees herself as and only as a leader, the rest of the Brigade has to pick up the slack. This is conveyed more in the anime than in the novels - Haruhi doesn't seem mad that Mikuru can't act properly, more disappointed - as if she expected Mikuru to act to Haruhi's (projected) level, and you know Haruhi would LARGE HAM it up.

I agree to an extent that Haruhi sabotages a Mikuru/Kyon relationship whenever it occurs to her, but I disagree that she's malignant enough to create an entire plot around it.

[ac195]

I don't know if Haruhi is patient enough to make an entire movie project specifically to discredit Mikuru as potential competition. I'm pretty sure she just a) wanted to make a movie and b) assumed (as per usual) that everybody shares her level of enthusiasm for it.

Couldn't agree with you more here.

It's just Haruhi going full speed with her brakes cut. Like a kid on Christmas eve, nothing more really. It's pretty evident in her reaction when Kyon attempts to "punch" her... she can't even believe whats happening in front of her.

[Vexx]

Hmm, I was actually kind of disappointed. The whole episode seemed quite subdued considering the range of emotion of this story arc. Everyone seemed a bit perfunctory. There was some marvelous animation of Haruhi going through a range of expressions though. The animation and art style seems like its moved closer to season one style again though.

[Archon_Wing]

If I were to describe the second of season of Haruhi, I'd pretty much describe it as mildly amusing, but ultimately shallow and pointless. It's epitomized by Endless Eight, which could get a reaction out of people, but what really was the point? While Haruhi is a series of great creativity, I feel that it ultimately lacked impact in that I could be entertained while watching it, but can't really remember these feelings afterwards, making it hard to describe what makes this series so great. I felt that way of the first season too, but that got around the problem by doing what it has to do and more. The series is at its best when it does the tongue in cheek snarky storytelling that I love so much. But when it tries to be dramatic, it has a hard time keeping stable. I feel this is true of all the KyoAni shows I have watched; even my beloved Clannad got really wobbly at times (Though some people will say worse-- this is not for this thread. :D)

Well, fortunately this episode is none of these things. Finally, we just get to see what the hell all of this was really about. Haruhi's slowly increasing acts of oppression have finally pushed everyone to the limit and no longer can he watch Mikuru suffer anymore. He was inspired by Mikuru's determination to keep going on, and he realized that if someone like her is willing to fight, then he must do it too.

The beginning of the episide catches us with yet another crisis on hand-- another contact lens. We are quickly reminded that this situation is getting more severe, and if this should keep on, Yuki just may no longer be able to hold Haruhi off. The ominous music playing seems a bit overdone, but make no mistake. They are walking on a very thin line here.

Arguably, the main scene of this episode when Kyon stands up wasn't as epic as it could have been. But that doesn't really matter; after all if you think about it's just 2 people having an argument. Sometimes going over the top defeats the purpose of a dramatic scene. That scene was well done, because the importance of the situation is understated. It's more than just two people yelling at each other; the fate of the universe is at stake. But then again, causally discussing the destruction of the universe is a staple of the series.

We get another of those talks with Itsuki, and as usual he just serves to annoy the crap out of Kyon. We also realize the amount of pressure Itsuki is really feeling and that despite his shadiness, he really does care about everyone (especaially Kyon? :O)

I found Kyon's internal monologue with Tanuguchi pretty interesting, as he secretly defends Haruhi. While it may be nothing new in the series, I have to wonder, what is Haruhi hiding in her own mind? Could she possibly feel the same way as Kyon? And she is caught making a ponytail. The scene where Haruhi cheers up is incredibly cute. ;)

The end of the episode shows Haruhi's manipulations causing cherry blossoms to appear. Oh no, did she not learn a thing? -_- Did Kyon make the matter worse? While it might seem like it's teaching a bad lesson here, indeed this problem was never as easy as it sounds. I thought the end was sorta anticlimactic especially after the climax happened into the middle. But that doesn't really detract from the episode too much.

9/10 A very good episode, probably the best for season two, and just as good if not better than much of season 1. Despite the seemingly lack of epicness, I found a lot of substance to be taken from the episode as usually I really don't write more than a few sentences for these episodes. This is the first time in a while I'm anticipating the next episode. Here's to Haruhi going out this season with a bang. She wills it! :D

[ac195]

If I were to describe the second of season of Haruhi, I'd pretty much describe it as mildly amusing, but ultimately shallow and pointless. It's epitomized by Endless Eight, which could get a reaction out of people, but what really was the point? While Haruhi is a series of great creativity, I feel that it ultimately lacked impact in that I could be entertained while watching it, but can't really remember these feelings afterwards, making it hard to describe what makes this series so great. I felt that way of the first season too, but that got around the problem by doing what it has to do and more. The series is at its best when it does the tongue in cheek snarky storytelling that I love so much. But when it tries to be dramatic, it has a hard time keeping stable. I feel this is true of all the KyoAni shows I have watched; even my beloved Clannad got really wobbly at times (Though some people will say worse-- this is not for this thread. :D)

Endless Eight really needs a sub-forum of its own.

[Archon_Wing]

Hmm, I was actually kind of disappointed. The whole episode seemed quite subdued considering the range of emotion of this story arc. Everyone seemed a bit perfunctory. There was some marvelous animation of Haruhi going through a range of expressions though. The animation and art style seems like its moved closer to season one style again though.

I actually thought the episode being subdued made it more interesting. It'd go in the mindset of casual disregard for important things, just like Haruhi. The fact that everything is at stake but nobody seems to be acting like it makes it quite distressing. Often times, when people are aware of a problem and powerless to stop it, it often degenerates into apathy. In any case, I felt that came off as less predictable then some epic over the top stuff like EE's conclusion.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I thought the end was sorta anticlimactic especially after the climax happened into the middle.

In case you haven't caught on yet, Sigh is one long movie, divided into 5 parts. That's why the "end" is anti-climatic; it isn't the "end", it's just when the episode stops. That's why Mikuru was cut off mid-sentence in the first Sigh episode, and continued straight from the start of the second episode.

[Archon_Wing]

In case you haven't caught on yet, Sigh is one long movie, divided into 5 parts. That's why the "end" is anti-climatic; it isn't the "end", it's just when the episode stops. That's why Mikuru was cut off mid-sentence in the first Sigh episode, and continued straight from the start of the second episode.

Yea I know, I'm just writing about the episode But I just didn't really think much of the end; just didn't feel like the drama that was there for the entire episode was present at the end.

[khryoleoz]

I really love KyoAni's adaptation. It's because of this deterioration in Kyon and Haruhi's relationship that vol 2 was my least favorite book. I thought the book did very well to convey Kyon's frustration and rage towards Haruhi's blatant devaluing of Mikuru. His urge to strike her was something I felt strongly while reading Haruhi's defiant response. But this episode, with the flim-noir style visuals, the tense musical score, and great delivery of lines by Sugita and Hirano, had me totally glued to the scene. It was outstanding!

[Archon_Wing]

The background music for Sigh has been great. Usually I don't notice these things, but that just makes it more impressive. It can be a fine line between forgettable bgms and intrusive ones.

Oh and the voices too. They were perfect.

[ac195]

Yea I know, I'm just writing about the episode But I just didn't really think much of the end; just didn't feel like the drama that was there for the entire episode was present at the end.

Again, I think you are missing the point. The reason the episodes are so uneven in pacing/drama/whatever is that it is being presented as a movie cut into episodes. Basically, if you are feeling that... that's what KyoAni wants you to feel. They are really, really, really loving the meta content of Haruhi this year.