The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 14]

[monir]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Suzumiya Haruhi (2009), Episode 14.

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[Dr. Casey]

And so we say goodbye to the best arc of the Haruhi anime.

Farewell, Sighs. Too bad you couldn't have passed as slowly as Endless Eight.

[risingstar3110]

And so we say goodbye to the best arc of the Haruhi anime.

Farewell, Sighs. Too bad you couldn't have passed as slowly as Endless Eight.
If this arc repeats another 7 times before the ending airs, i swear i will hunt you down :heh:

[Triple_R]

And so we say goodbye to the best arc of the Haruhi anime.

Farewell, Sighs. Too bad you couldn't have passed as slowly as Endless Eight.

While I really liked Sighs, I don't think that I'd want it to be spread out over eight episodes. Five is definitely enough, imo.

However, it's sad to see this year's new Haruhi episodes end off today, barring a KyoAni surprise at some point this year, of course.

[monir]

If this arc repeats another 7 times before the ending airs, i swear i will hunt you down :heh:

And I shall aid you in your hunt by holding the lamp for you when it is dark.

[ac195]

And I shall aid you in your hunt by holding the lamp for you when it is dark.

And I'll be there to LOL when you're forced to say the following a couple steps away from your desk: "OH NO!!! THE UMBILICAL CORD HAS BEEN CUT!!! LOSING POWER!!!"

[Heminga13]

This topic is up much earlier than last week's lol

I'm looking forward to seeing KITTIES! :D

[Khu]

OH, it's NOT out yet.

I was wondering why no one was polling yet... XD

[chikorita157]

I'm guessing that this is the last episode of the season... Sighs was good (better than the mess that is called Endless Eight) and hopefully there isn't as much angst in this episode than the last few episodes of Haruhi being a cruel person.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

I'm pretty sure the worst is over in terms of behavioral problems. Don't take that as confirmation though, I don't recall much of Sigh beyond a few key Nagato scenes and last week's failed KYON PUNCH. :heh:

[Peanutbutter003]

There seems to be an awful lot to cover in this one...

[Jonbob0008]

I remember the scene where Kyon is trying to edit the movie at the last possible second. There, something strange happens, but I don't wish to reveal it for those who haven't read the book.

[SidVicious]

Genma speaks. :p

[Jonbob0008]

Genma speaks. :p

I'm afraid I fail...

...at understanding your reference...

[SidVicious]

I'm afraid I fail...

...at understanding your reference...

Saotome Genma. :p

[Daniel Lind]

So, it was a nice end. Not really up to part III and IV, but still very nice.
And LOTS of talking.

Both OP and ED omitted.


Good bye Sighs, good bye the second cour.


Sighs Prologue...
Actually got moved to the very end.
And very S1-ish.
AND A NEW KYON TRADEMARK FACEPALM

[Peanutbutter003]

I'm surprised at the choice of the last scene. At least all bases were covered.

Oh well, is this the end of new Haruhi stuff? :upset:

[Ithekro]

No Op and no ED...interesting.

Also...did Mikuru start nuking the scenary again?

[Heminga13]

Hmm...I'm interested in the narration that occurs during the scene that seems to be from the festival and then the flashback. Live Alive started with them watching the beginning but Sigh V shows the end of the movie being watched. That's...strange without knowing what was said lol.

Now I'm curious to see what next episode is. The rumor that it's only going to be 26 episodes that started a little while back has caught my attention now.

[TakariCritic]

Sighs prologue at the end of the episode. Because that's aparently where Prologues go.

Also, Shamisen was awesome this episode. Koizumi was a little long-winded as usual, but that's just because they were being faithful to the source material. All in all this entire arc was very well done.

[Game8910]

amazing episode, overall even if you count E8 this show was great....this episode was great too

[baltakatei]

I just want to know where those warriors came from and where they were going. Surely they weren't cosplayers. I seriously have no clue.

The lighting in this episode was much more realistic. Not all areas in the world have perfect lighting. Examples: The school hallway where Mikuru gave Kyon his coupon, the rooftop where Koizumi explained to Kyon, etc.

[haruhi.ism]

I just want to know where those warriors came from and where they were going. Surely they weren't cosplayers. I seriously have no clue.

me too!
it was a great episode, especially that last scene
=]
*waits patiently for the disappearance*

[Toonleap]

Sighs prologue at the end of the episode. Because that's aparently where Prologues go.

Actually, Prologues are introductions (http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/prologue.htm)for the story..Epilogues goes at the end.

That prologue is very important so it was natural for the story, but strange that it went straight to the end as an epilogue when in the light novels, it goes at the beginning...Adaptations... :)

[Daniel Lind]

Funny.
Newtype Anime Web Channel Program doesn't list Episode 28 as the last episode (最終話) which they usually do with other series.
http://anime.webnt.jp/program/index.php?pg_page=tv_detail&detail=2767

Speculation time!

[Ithekro]

Probably because the actual epilogue was in Episode 00 already. And this particular prologue really doesn't fix in anyplace very well...since it is also the epilogue (essentially) for Melancholy.

Next week? 00 or Live a Live? Most likely 00.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

I'd laugh if they skip over Ep00, simply because I'd fully expect them to do a Churuya-san marathon for the 28th timeslot to screw with people expecting Disappearance. :heh:

[Heatth]

This episode was just awesome. I, unfortunately don't know enough words to express it very well (it is probably my knowledge of english words is crapy, tough :p).

Anyway, at last visually I can't complain about this week episode. It was just awesome. I remember complaning, some weeks ago, about witch Nagato, abou she don't being creepy enough. Well, now she is. At last for her great exposition scene.

The camera angles were great too. I found specially funny when Itsuki made a 'cool' pose to Kyon, and then the camera shift sideway, making him kinda ridiculous.

Another great thing was the change in the light for the serious scenes. They look kinda dark, while the filming scenes are more ligher. Speaking in the the filming, I wonder if Haruhi is blind or mental retard... I mean, since when the guns fire water? And how don't notice that water was capable to cause such destruction? And that shurikens being fired by Mikuru's eyes...

Well, great episode. A pitty is the last one for a while.

Funny.
Newtype Anime Web Channel Program doesn't list Episode 28 as the last episode (最終話) which they usually do with other series.
http://anime.webnt.jp/program/index.php?pg_page=tv_detail&detail=2767

Speculation time!

Didn't understand. There is no number in this site. The episode 28 is only going o be aired in one month.

PP:
I'd laugh if they skip over Ep00, simply because I'd fully expect them to do a Churuya-san marathon for the 28th timeslot to screw with people expecting Disappearance. :heh:

Eh, what? Also, wouldn't be more likely a Haruhi-can marathon?

[Daniel Lind]

I'd laugh if they skip over Ep00, simply because I'd fully expect them to do a Churuya-san marathon for the 28th timeslot to screw with people expecting Disappearance.
Churuya-san belongs to completely another title.
They can't show it under "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya" label, they simply can't.

Didn't understand. There is no number in this site. The episode 28 is only going o be aired in one month.
28話　(10／8)
サブタイトル未定

Episode 28 (08th October)
Subtitle Pending

If it was the last episode, they would normally list it as such (最終話　instead of 28話).

[Heatth]

Episode 28 (08th October)
Subtitle Pending

If it was the last episode, they would normally list it as such (最終話　instead of 28話).

I see. Hmm, Aparently they don't list all episodes for all shows listed there. From where was the 28 episode information again?

Anyway, don't concluding 'Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu' at Someday In The Rain would be stange. After that is Disappearance, so it would be at last 5 more episodes. Unless they do one more anime original episode (for episode 29). Just to mess with us. :p

[relentlessflame]

If it was the last episode, they would normally list it as such (最終話　instead of 28話).Yes, but this is just in keeping with the spirit of everything else about this broadcast. When have they been straightforward about their plans before?

The latest news, I think, was that Kiddy Grade-and (another Kadokawa show) will take Haruhi's timeslot beginning on the 15th (of October). Also keep in mind that the DVDs have been solicited for 14 episodes as well. They could still do something unexpected, but I doubt it at this point.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Eh, what? Also, wouldn't be more likely a Haruhi-can marathon?

The entirety of Churuya-san fits within the timeslot. Haruhi-chan is too long. *e* Also, Churuya-san would be more trollish. *e*

Churuya-san belongs to completely another title.
They can't show it under "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya" label, they simply can't.

I was under the impression that all we know was that Kadokawa acquired 28 timeslots, not that they were specifically for "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya." :heh:

[Ithekro]

Considering how quiet they have been for this season, no telling what they will pull come October, nyoro.

[Heatth]

Yes, but this is just in keeping with the spirit of everything else about this broadcast. When have they been straightforward about their plans before?

The latest news, I think, was that Kiddy Grade-and (another Kadokawa show) will take Haruhi's timeslot beginning on the 15th (of October). Also keep in mind that the DVDs have been solicited for 14 episodes as well. They could still do something unexpected, but I doubt it at this point.

Eh, 10/15 isn't thuesday. :heh: How it can be the same time slot?

Anyway, I agree with you. Don't believe in more episodes for this season.

[Game8910]

I BELIEVE IN DISAPPEARANCE ;__; orz

[Daniel Lind]

The entirety of Churuya-san fits within the timeslot. Haruhi-chan is too long. *e* Also, Churuya-san would be more trollish. *e*
Did I accidentially stumble upon Sankaku Complex or something?
Business companies don't troll for trolling sake.

The latest news, I think, was that Kiddy Grade-and (another Kadokawa show) will take Haruhi's timeslot beginning on the 15th (of October).
Oh... *sigh* Syoboi Calendar doesn't show anything in that timeslot yet...

[Heatth]

I BELIEVE IN DISAPPEARANCE ;__; orz

Me too. Just, not now.

Oh... *sigh*

I am missing some thing? How something aired at 'Tuesday'(Wednesday) can have the same time slot of a show aired at 'Thurday'(Friday)? Also, Haruhi has 14 time slots. 6 just on 'Tuesday'.

[Toonleap]

The End of Sighs....

sigh! (http://www.cartoonleap.com/2009/09/10/haruhi-second-season-ep-24-cat-talks-sigh-ends/)

Good episode indeed.

[bayoab]

The latest news, I think, was that Kiddy Grade-and (another Kadokawa show) will take Haruhi's timeslot beginning on the 15th (of October). Also keep in mind that the DVDs have been solicited for 14 episodes as well. They could still do something unexpected, but I doubt it at this point.
Kiddy Grade-and is listed on the newtype listing as "Time/Date TBA". If it was starting on the 15th, it wouldn't be there since the listing ends on 10/10.

I was under the impression that all we know was that Kadokawa acquired 28 timeslots, not that they were specifically for "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya." :heh:And there is that Hokkaido station listing 26 as being the last Haruhi ep.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Haruhi is running in timeslots normally reserved for reruns, if I'm not wrong.

So I don't think we'll be finding out what's airing in its place for a while, given that a new show won't be replacing it.


And there is that Hokkaido station listing 26 as being the last Haruhi ep.

...Well, I always did think Live Alive worked better as a finale than Someday in the Rain... :heh:

[relentlessflame]

Kiddy Grade-and is listed on the newtype listing as "Time/Date TBA". If it was starting on the 15th, it wouldn't be there since the listing ends on 10/10.

And there is that Hokkaido station listing 26 as being the last Haruhi ep.Well, to add to the confusion, Moonphase's listings today have Kiddy Grade-and listed on Tokyo MX in Haruhi's timeslot starting on 10/09, which would be 27 episodes? Who knows... Regardless, it seems pretty clear that the show isn't going to just roll into a third cour.

[Heatth]

Well, to add to the confusion, Moonphase's listings today have Kiddy Grade-and listed on Tokyo MX in Haruhi's timeslot starting on 10/09, which would be 27 episodes? Who knows... Regardless, it seems pretty clear that the show isn't going to just roll into a third cour.

This just remembered me. Haven't Haruhi-chan OP said it would be 2 cours? Or it was the ED?

[Heminga13]

How long has there been an official episode list past the unaired episode? Last I knew they were still 'hush-hush' about what's going to take place in this airing, even the number of episodes. They're still being secretive about future episode titles, though. Which is perfectly reasonable given that they haven't revealed any yet (and don't need to because most series don't anyway). Other than the early Endless Eight Newtype confirming it would end at 8 lol.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Well, to add to the confusion, Moonphase's listings today have Kiddy Grade-and listed on Tokyo MX in Haruhi's timeslot starting on 10/09, which would be 27 episodes? Who knows... Regardless, it seems pretty clear that the show isn't going to just roll into a third cour.

Moonphase is a rumor site. Although it's more accurate than, say, Sankaku Complex, it's still a rumor site.

[GMT]

Loved the episode this week. Even though I understood all of, maybe, twenty words of the dialogue. My usual over-the-top reaction will come after the subs come out.

As for the speculation, I will make my prediction now:

Nothing out of the ordinary will happen. The rest of S1 will rumble on like a freight train, Someday in the Rain will be the last episode and we'll all be mildly disappointed at (though entirely used to) the lack of Disappearance this year. Whatever will happen with Disappearance likely won't happen until at least the next block of reruns ends in December, or whenever such things usually end in moonspeak-land.

That, or they'll omit Episode 00, go straight to Live A Live, and end with Day of Sagittarius. Someday in the Rain will air in December, and this will be the slow, plodding lead-in to the mindscrew of Disappearance. :heh:

[Daniel Lind]

Regardless, it seems pretty clear that the show isn't going to just roll into a third cour.
No, it's not clear at all.

[Heminga13]

'TMoHS' getting a third cour is pretty unlikely, I think, but the Haruhi anime series getting a third cour is definitely possible. Assuming I'm using 'cour' correctly, of course lol.

[bayoab]

Moonphase is a rumor site. Although it's more accurate than, say, Shitkaku Complex, it's still a rumor site.

No, let's get this straight.

Moonphase (http://moonphase.cc/Html/anime.html) (the site) is 100% accurate. The information on there is always verified and latest.
The moonphase blog (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/moonphase/) is ~99.9% accurate for news except when it is clearly marked as a rumor. Note that he doesn't post random rumors and usually has some evidence to back up any he posts (including insider info). Usually they are true up to the fine details.

[relentlessflame]

Moonphase is a rumor site. Although it's more accurate than, say, Sankaku Complex, it's still a rumor site.Fine, but when they have specific dates and times listed on the anime airing schedule (http://www.moonphase.cc/Html/anime.html), it's not as if they just made it up either. Of course nothing is 100% fool-proof, and things are always subject to change.No, it's not clear at all.Well, I guess it's for you to decide just how much evidence you need to draw what you feel is a reasonable conclusion.

If they were going to roll into a third cour right away, one would have to wonder when they're going to start releasing the DVDs, given that they're already solicited the current run until end-March. It would be very unusual for them to release a 14-episode show on 8 DVDs if it's actually a 26-28 episode show that's in one set. This would push the new DVDs until more than 3 months after the airing, which is quite atypical. What is more on-pattern with this release pattern would be to have a subsequent season air in either Winter or Spring, so that it could pick right up off the DVDs and continue. Combine this with the reports about KG2 taking the timeslot, and that's why I said "it seems pretty clear". Do we know for a fact? Of course not -- as I said before, the whole point is to keep things a secret. Could they do something off-pattern and unexpected? Sure they could. But based on the DVDs, the lack of new solicitations for Haruhi OP/ED CDs, the timeslot being apparently taken... I just don't think media publishers can be that unpredictable.

And of course, I'm only talking about "rolling into" another cour -- as in, it just keeps on going. Of course I think another season/continuation is going to come at some point.

[Kaisos Erranon]

No, let's get this straight.

Moonphase (http://moonphase.cc/Html/anime.html) (the site) is 100% accurate. The information on there is always verified and latest.
The moonphase blog (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/moonphase/) is ~99.9% accurate for news except when it is clearly marked as a rumor. Note that he doesn't post random rumors and usually has some evidence to back up any he posts (including insider info). Usually they are true up to the fine details.

I remember moonphase reporting that Haruhi 2 would air in Fall '07, like I said before...

In any case, until we get completely official confirmation, I ain't buying it.

But based on the DVDs, the lack of new solicitations for Haruhi OP/ED CDs, the timeslot being apparently taken... I just don't think media publishers can be that unpredictable.

Before BLR aired there was absolutely no indication that any new merchandise was being produced.

They intentionally kept us in the dark, and who's to say they're not doing it again?

[Triple_R]

For Haruhi's sakes people... don't get your hopes up concerning Disappearance. Haven't you been falsely teased about that enough to know to be very skeptical when it comes to getting more Disappearance?

Keep a close eye on what KyoAni and/or Kadokawa does for the next few weeks (just in case), but expect this to be it.

If it's not, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

If it is, you'll be prepared.

A lot of people here are setting themselves up for disappointment with yet more strong hope...

[Daniel Lind]

Haven't you been falsely teased about that enough to know to be very skeptical when it comes to getting more Disappearance?
Falsely?
Re-run is not yet over.

[relentlessflame]

Before BLR aired there was absolutely no indication that any new merchandise was being produced.

They intentionally kept us in the dark, and who's to say they're not doing it again?Well, I don't want to keep derailing this thread, but that's not quite true. There were a number of leaks and rumours about it. Plus, they did announce that Haruhi was actually going to air in that timeslot, they just didn't tell us what the content would be. All their merchandise actually did have the usual 6-8 week solicitation lead time; BLR aired a month before the rest of the new episodes, which allowed them to pull off the "surprise". It was clever, but not that clever in retrospect. Just very good timing.

I remember moonphase reporting that Haruhi 2 would air in Fall '07, like I said before...That wasn't a rumour. Otherwise, why would they have announced the cancellation? And again, as bayoab said, there's a difference between rumours posted on the blog, and the actual TV airing schedule (which is what I was referring to earlier). The TV Airing Schedule isn't based on rumour, which is why it's considered authoritative by most everyone.

[Kaisos Erranon]

Okay, let's not talk about the possibility of more new episodes anymore, it's derailing the thread...

Instead, let me say that this episode was awesome. If they can keep pulling this off for a third cour at some point in the future, I'll be happy.

[Ice Block]

Damn, too bad they skipped the LOL-Fang-Tan -> sky shot scene. But major LOL at the scene where Shamisen first spoke. Great reactions by the cast there. And I wonder what those warrior guys were referencing? Yeah, the exposition in this ep crit me hard (need subs to get most of it).

Anyway, excellent episode overall (comes with a nice display of lighting and shadow effects). Too bad we didn't get to see the ninja editing and the recording of Koi no Mikuru Densetsu (not that these were on the source anyway) -- though the late-night editing scene in the clubroom was good enough (lol-worthy) IMO. It's expected I guess, as so much was covered by this episode that both the OP and ED were skipped. The Sighs prologue tacked at the end did feel a little odd, as it's basically the epilogue of Melancholy.

For Haruhi's sakes people... don't get your hopes up concerning Disappearance. Haven't you been falsely teased about that enough to know to be very skeptical when it comes to getting more Disappearance?
Too late for that. Two years late, in fact. And we're not hoping for it to come -- it's not a question of if, but when. It'll be out when it's ready. In the meantime... enjoy the hype. :heh:

And as Daniel Lind pointed out, the rerun is not yet over. Also note that there was no future project announcement by KyoAni at the end of K-On! (that is, IIRC). I won't be surprised if the future project announcement at the end of this run's not related to Haruhi though...

[Kaisos Erranon]

Damn, too bad they skipped the LOL-Fang-Tan -> sky shot scene. But major LOL at the scene where Shamisen first spoke. Great reactions by the cast there. And I wonder what those warrior guys were referencing?

They skipped what?

And the warrior guys are Generic JRPG IV references. :heh:

[Heminga13]

They skipped what?

The part where Tsuruya starts laughing because she can't stop herself while talking to Mikuru. The camera then pans to the window iirc and Kyon mentions something about that odd transition. Something like that, it's been awhile.

[Kaisos Erranon]

...That wasn't in Sigh(s), though. :heh:

[Ithekro]

A lot of the scenes in the movie weren't in Sigh. A lot of the action in Sigh wasn't in the movie during 00....just who is editting this movie? And when did they have time to not only write, but also get Mikuru to sing the theme song?

It is one of the many Haurhi mysteries.

[Heminga13]

I think Ice Block just wanted to see them film it though lol. I would like to know why the camera would pan randomly to the window and sky, though...Kyon covering up his laziness probably. What a slouch.

[Kaisos Erranon]

I think Ice Block just wanted to see them film it though lol. I would like to know why the camera would pan randomly to the window and sky, though...Kyon covering up his laziness probably. What a slouch.

Yeah, the pan-aways are all Kyon not knowing how to transition.

[Triple_R]

Falsely?
Re-run is not yet over.

The renewal is slated for 28 (or 27) episodes. We're through all the new episodes for those 28/27. There's nothing known about what's coming after.

Until there's some sort of clear-cut advertisement or promotion indicating that there's more Haruhi coming after that... those 28/27 are it. It's fine to hope that Disappearance will arrive in the near future... but barring anything new on that file, it's best (in my opinion) to work from the default position of this is it.

In which case... yeah, false advertisements. I'll call them honest advertisements if Disappearance arrives, and not one second earlier.


Too late for that. Two years late, in fact.

But... that's my point. After being let down over and over again, I would think that it's time to be cautious... unless you actually like being trolled, of course.


And we're not hoping for it to come -- it's not a question of if, but when.

Where this confidence comes from after all the stunts that KyoAni/Kadokawa have pulled with this particular anime franchise is beyond me...


Anyway... judging by the screenshots for this episode, the artwork looks excellent. Not much more I can say based on those screenshots alone, though.

[Airman8]

It's fine to hope that Disappearance will arrive in the near future... but barring anything new on that file, it's best (in my opinion) to work from the default position of this is it.

...

Where this confidence comes from after all the stunts that KyoAni/Kadokawa have pulled with this particular anime franchise is beyond me...

I think that's a good and cautious position to take. I'd be disappointed if they didn't do more, but many anime series only go for 26-28 eps...

As for the second point, the trolling actually gave me some confidence. It looked like they were going out of their way to troll and generate publicity which made me feel they were putting a lot of thought into the series.

I liked E8, but if the series ends after this I'll be very disappointed that they didn't use those 7 extra episodes to cover Disappearance and the other uncovered short story material such as SMS and Melancholy of Asahina Mikuru. Why get all the actors together after 3 years just to do this?

[monir]

Freakin' bake-neko.... THIS ONE SPEAAAAAAKS!!

Kyon's reaction was awesome.

Ho-ho. A genuinely entertaining episode for the first time (for me at least). The seiyuu as the cat was killing me. It was such a fitting voice. Kyon's dilemma only magnified by the fact he was in charge of taking care of the shaberi neko. When everyone was surprised by the fact the cat is a talker, the cat's matter-of-fact retort was simple to the point, "I don't understand why you are all startled." And Kyon's comeback is as follows:

http://h.imagehost.org/t/0797/snapshot20090910174035.jpg (http://h.imagehost.org/view/0797/snapshot20090910174035)

The episode balanced information, the sense of mystery surrounding Haruhi those information generates, and the ensuing comedy that are entangled in those information. It was like watching a Haruhi episode for once. Very enjoyable.

[Triple_R]

I think that's a good and cautious position to take. I'd be disappointed if they didn't do more, but many anime series only go for 26-28 eps...

To me, KyoAni and Kadokawa are like politicians. They make a lot of promises (both in what they actually say, and in their visual promotions); some of them very slyly constructed to create hype while not being specific enough to hold themselves to anything concrete. They'll get fans thinking about Disappearance with images (like Nagato acting chummy with Asakura) meant to trick fans and illicit that Disappearance-focused thinking... but the images will have some small feature to it (like Nagato not wearing glasses) that gives them an out saying "Disappearance? This isn't a Disappearance promotion!". They're very sneaky.

So... I put about as much trust in KyoAni and Kadokawa as I do in a typical politician, which is to say... not much. :heh:

Much like Shaft, KyonAni is very good once they get serious and stop playing games. But just like Shaft loves being Shaft, KyoAni loves being KyoAni...




but if the series ends after this I'll be very disappointed that they didn't use those 7 extra episodes to cover Disappearance and the other uncovered short story material such as SMS and Melancholy of Asahina Mikuru. Why get all the actors together after 3 years just to do this?

I agree.

I really do hope that we get Disappearance within the next 12 months one way or another... but I just don't trust KyoAni enough to actually bank on it.

[Ithekro]

They seem to be using a lot of camera tricks, angles, and lighting this time around. Almost like they are showing off...or making this episode so that is can almost seemlessly fit back into the remaining episdoes...which makes sense.

The world has returned to normal...more or less.

(That's some firepower Mikuru's got there...or should that be waterpower...or was that high energy plasma? I'm actually surprised the cat wasn't freaked out by the rapid movements and noise....though I'm not surprised that Haruhi missed it)

[Peanutbutter003]

A lot of the scenes in the movie weren't in Sigh. A lot of the action in Sigh wasn't in the movie during 00....just who is editting this movie? And when did they have time to not only write, but also get Mikuru to sing the theme song?

It is one of the many Haurhi mysteries.

This brings to mind a question I had.

Is the PSP game Suzumiya Haruhi no Yakusoku considered canon? If so, then the answers to the above questions lie in the game.

[SidVicious]

I don't know...but it looks like a indirect kiss in the end.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

They'll get fans thinking about Disappearance with images (like Nagato acting chummy with Asakura) meant to trick fans and illicit that Disappearance-focused thinking... but the images will have some small feature to it (like Nagato not wearing classes) that gives them an out saying "Disappearance? This isn't a Disappearance promotion!". They're very sneaky.

So... do you consider advertisement of the Yuki-chan spin-off(as well as the spin-off itself) to be related to Haruhi's Disappearance, as well? ;)

[Ithekro]

Looks like Haruhi installed a Lambda Driver in Mikuru when we weren't looking.

[Ascaloth]

Somehow, I think that if any advertisements for a next season was to come, it would come after Someday in the Rain....which is give or take 1 month from now. And, I think KyoAni is not even going to be advertising a new season; instead, it's probably going to be....

Gekijouban: Suzumiya Haruhi no Shoushitsu

I'm serious. I'm quite sure that Disappearance will work just nicely in a movie format, and it'll get them out of having to animate the later stories like Snow Mountain Syndrome. :D

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Not to mention the fact that they'd pretty much have to throw in a lot of original content if they wanted to have a Season 2 without having both Disappearance and Intrigues if they didn't go that route. :heh:

[Heminga13]

*barges in*

Did someone say a Vanishment movie?!

[Game8910]

劇場版: 涼宮ハルヒの消失

I like the sound of that

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Well... now I know how to summon Heminga. :heh:

[Heatth]

劇場版: 涼宮ハルヒの消失

I like the sound of that

By the way that sound would be
"Gekijouban: Suzumiya Haruhi no Shoushitsu" or "The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya - The Movie"

Might work. It would have to be a 2 hour long movie to work, tough (more or less 5 episodes). I don't know if is common a anime movie be that long. (Clannad was only 1h and 30min).

Shouldn't we be talking about this week episode, by the way? It was the most awesome episode of the 'season'. We must have something to talk about.

Like: How the hell Haruhi didn't noticed the obviouls supernatural things being fired by Mikuru's eyes/guns?

[Ithekro]

Some of the old Space Battleship Yamato movies were about two and a half hours long.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

How do you get two hours from five episodes? Even if we were to include the OP and ED, they're only about 24 minutes long. That'd be a little under an hour and a half. :heh:

[Ithekro]

Actually, 5 x 24 is 120 minutes...exactly two hours.

[Heatth]

How do you get two hours from five episodes? Even if we were to include the OP and ED, they're only about 24 minutes long. That'd be a little under an hour and a half. :heh:

Eh, actually, 24x5=120. Exactly 2 hours. :heh: Excluding the OD and ED would still be more then n hour and a half.

PP:
...Tsc ninjaed.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

My bad... no idea where my head was. :p

[guanin]

When is this episode going to be released in subs?

[Ithekro]

Typically, within the day. For a.f.k. subs...maybe four to five days...or less.

[Daniel Lind]

It's rare for anime movie to be over 1h 30m.
Disappearance needs a bit more than that.

[Game8910]

2 hours should be minimum if it happens

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

It's also rare for an anime to repeat a story seven times in a row.

And don't say "Pokémon." :heh:

[Leo_Otaku]

omg it is over?! Was there a preview at the end???

[Game8910]

omg it is over?! Was there a preview at the end???

>Implying there is ever a preview for this season

[Heatth]

omg it is over?! Was there a preview at the end???

...No. But there is no preview in any episode of this season. Sure it wouldn't be one now.

[CrowKenobi]

To get back on topic, did anyone notice how the movie got put together even though Kyon slept till morning? :p

It was even referenced in the novel, I believe. :D

@Leo Otaku: no preview, but we got the Melancholy epilogue that set up Sighs! :heh:

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Two possibilities:
1. Haruhi wanted it to be finished, so it finished itself.
2. Nagato madhaxed it. While not even being there. Because she's awesome.

[Heatth]

To get back on topic, did anyone notice how the movie got put together even though Kyon slept till morning? :p

It was even referenced in the novel, I believe. :D

Yeah, it was. Probably the monologue make it more clear once someone sub it. Not only that, but the special effects in the end (when Itsuki send Yuki flying) are fair greater then anything Kyon could ever do (the rest is still crap, tough).

2. Nagato madhaxed it. While not even being there. Because she's awesome.

She probably could do that. Using her powers she made it apear Ryouko moved to Canada, so it might be simple edit a movie (exept she don't know how a good movie would actually be).

[Roger Rambo]

Two possibilities:
1. Haruhi wanted it to be finished, so it finished itself.
2. Nagato madhaxed it. While not even being there. Because she's awesome.
Or Itsuki's agency buddies did it.

[Heatth]

Or Itsuki's agency buddies did it.

And now I just imagined Mori dressed as ninja entering in the clubroom by the window and working in the computer without waking Kyon up (he was sleeping over the keyboard).

This theory actully make sense. Maybe not a ninja Mori, but Itsuki's agency is crazy and paranoid enough to make sure the movie would be finished in time.

[mokuseimaru]

A lot of the scenes in the movie weren't in Sigh. A lot of the action in Sigh wasn't in the movie during 00....just who is editting this movie? And when did they have time to not only write, but also get Mikuru to sing the theme song?

It is one of the many Haurhi mysteries.

My guess is either someone from the Organization, not wanting Haruhi to get "depressed" by not getting the outcome she wanted, or else Haruhi's repeated overtures that all the inconsistencies and incongruities of her thrown-together plot would be ironed out in editing simply came true because, like the white birds, the unseasonable sakura blossoms and so on, she wanted it to be so, and so it was. Yuki could have done it, but I can't help but think she would have made the special effects a bit less cheesy while still being plausible for a no-budget film.

Not only that, but the special effects in the end (when Itsuki send Yuki flying) are fair greater then anything Kyon could ever do (the rest is still crap, tough).


Since the series is supposed to take place at present day, I think the effect of Yuki getting blasted away would be something you could probably do with a decent video editting program, at least if some of the videos you see on YouTube are any example.

[Eak]

I always thought that the movie finished itself because Haruhi had a certain "vision" for the movie (the vision can be argued but whatever) and it contoured to her specifications

[Heatth]

Since the series is supposed to take place at present day, I think the effect of Yuki getting blasted away would be something you could probably do with a decent video editting program, at least if some of the videos you see on YouTube are any example.

'Present day' is kinda vague, as it could be any time between 2000 and 2015. Anyway, it is posible do these kinda of effects. It just Kyon don't have and idea of how do so and had only one day to learn. So, I really believe it was not Kyon who did it, nor it could be him.

[baltakatei]

To get back on topic, did anyone notice how the movie got put together even though Kyon slept till morning? :p

It was even referenced in the novel, I believe. :D


I believe Mr. Peanutbutter has the answer to that one:


Is the PSP game Suzumiya Haruhi no Yakusoku considered canon? If so, then the answers to the above questions lie in the game.

[Heatth]

What happened in that game, by the way? I doubt is canon (unless Tanigawa had write the plot), bt I am curious now.

[worldruined]

And now I just imagined More dressed as ninja entering in the clubroom by the window and working in the computer without waking Kyon up (he was sleeping over the keyboard).

This theory actully make sense. Maybe not a ninja Mori, but Itsuki's agency is crazy and paranoid enough to make sure the movie would be finished in time.
Easy enough to do -- unplug Kyon's keyboard-as-pillow and plug in a different one to work from. Presto-change-o magico!

And who's to say they'd need ninja skills? They could just dope Kyon up with something to keep him asleep while they worked. The Organization probably has a pharmacy of drugs up their collective sleeve.

[mokuseimaru]

'Present day' is kinda vague, as it could be any time between 2000 and 2015. Anyway, it is posible do these kinda of effects. It just Kyon don't have and idea of how do so and had only one day to learn. So, I really believe it was not Kyon who did it, nor it could be him.

Ah, well it's definitely not him. I guess I'm more referring to whether or not it was done by someone who wanted to make it look like something an amateur like Kyon could have done, rather than something completely out of an amateur editor's league.

[Heatth]

Easy enough to do -- unplug Kyon's keyboard-as-pillow and plug in a different one to work from. Presto-change-o magico!

And who's to say they'd need ninja skills? They could just dope Kyon up with something to keep him asleep while they worked. The Organization probably has a pharmacy of drugs up their collective sleeve.

I never said it need ninja skils. Is just was the image that comes to my mind when I read Roger Rambo's post. Mori isn't even a ninja to beging with it. Haruhi-chan is not canon.

PP:
Ah, well it's definitely not him. I guess I'm more referring to whether or not it was done by someone who wanted to make it look like something an amateur like Kyon could have done, rather than something completely out of an amateur editor's league.

This is posible too. However, why the end is so well done then? Even a professonal needs time to do things well. So, whoever it was, made everything in a hurry, so is understandable was is crappy.

[Airman8]

hmm, I do like the idea of a Disappearance movie. It would be suitably meta for KyoAni to do this right after the brigade finishes their in-anime movie as well. It would also be an okay conclusion to the Haruhi anime, as Kyon ends the story on a reflective note and a positive outlook on the future.

I don't know if they'll ever make it as far as book 9 or later in the anime, but I'd like them to. So many long-running anime and manga are full of filler. Aside from a few lesser quality short stories Haruhi is a dynamic series that doesn't pander or drag. It could easily continue as an anime until Tanigawa concludes the story (let's hope he doesn't try to drag it too!).

[Ithekro]

Alternate answer: Time travel. Kyon finished it later and then sent himself, Mikuru, or maybe Mikuru(BIG) herself back to load the finished version onto the computer while Kyon and Haruhi slept (together).

[Khu]

O.O

The part in parentheses was a JOKE, right.

[Mecha_Trueno]

Alternate answer: Time travel. Kyon finished it later and then sent himself, Mikuru, or maybe Mikuru(BIG) herself back to load the finished version onto the computer while Kyon and Haruhi slept (together).I've always thought it would be somewhere along those lines as well... Kyon from the future.

[kk2extreme]

tsuruya help make the movie

[sacundim]

My guess is either someone from the Organization, not wanting Haruhi to get "depressed" by not getting the outcome she wanted, or else Haruhi's repeated overtures that all the inconsistencies and incongruities of her thrown-together plot would be ironed out in editing simply came true because, like the white birds, the unseasonable sakura blossoms and so on, she wanted it to be so, and so it was. Yuki could have done it, but I can't help but think she would have made the special effects a bit less cheesy while still being plausible for a no-budget film.

Well, the really big question is whether Kyon's narration in Episode 00 is part of the movie. If he didn't actually edit it, well, then either he's narrating the movie as part of his role as series narrator, or whoever/whatever edited the movie had a fake (but really accurate!) Kyon narrate it...

Alternate answer: Time travel. Kyon finished it later and then sent himself, Mikuru, or maybe Mikuru(BIG) herself back to load the finished version onto the computer while Kyon and Haruhi slept (together).

Ah, so then, Future Kyon might have narrated the movie. If there is any canon support for saying that Kyon's narration was part of the edited movie, then actually, this becomes plausible...

[mokuseimaru]

Forgive me if this is outside episode discussion, but I have a dilemma: I downloaded the episode from Mazui, which I thought would be the sub but it has no subs. This is the second week this has happened. I would think it was just that they were only releasing the raws in the first place, and I'm the only person expecting otherwise, but last week the Mazui subbed episode was already up on various streaming sites when I tried loading the file, so apparently it was available. So, what am I doing wrong?

[Launch]

Subs were really late this week o_0

Anyway this was an amazing episode, alot of really good moments. Every time Shamisen talked was hilarious. xD

I was kind of hoping they would end the episode with the Brigade sitting in the projector room just before they watch the preview, so it would follow on directly into the next episode (Episode 00), but oh well.

One of the main things I loved about this episode was hearing the different groups theories about Haruhi, as well as the whole 'Don't trust what everyone else says' thing :P That's always been one of the most interesting aspects of the series to me (I'd forgotten it started in the Sighs storyline).

Great Episode in all areas for me. Though it's a bit sad that it's the end for now (probably). I'm really hoping they bring out Disappearance for this December!

[GMT]

Alternate answer: Time travel. Kyon finished it later and then sent himself, Mikuru, or maybe Mikuru(BIG) herself back to load the finished version onto the computer while Kyon and Haruhi slept (together).
And the bizarre answers:
A) Thanks to Haruhi's subconscious will, all the Kyons of all the iterations of Endless Eight were dreaming about parts of this movie, thus turning Kyon into a one-man CG rendering farm, in the theory that if she chained enough monkeys Kyons to typewriters she'd get all the works of Shakespeare her movie.

B) It all was a collective dream of Haruhi and Kyon, where they dreamed they were editing the movie, and it really happened thanks to Haruhi's reality-warping.

C) Haruhi's reality-warping powers trapped them both in region of spacetime where the flow of time is significantly slower than the outside world (maybe the clubroom was accelerated to within a tiny fraction of the speed of light,) giving them enough time to edit the movie. They don't remember because they reverted back to regular spacetime upon Haruhi completing the stock disclaimer.

[Kaisos Erranon]

A little late, but...


Like: How the hell Haruhi didn't noticed the obviouls supernatural things being fired by Mikuru's eyes/guns?

She was distracted by a kid talking to her right when the guns fired... :heh:

That part made me laugh a hell of a lot, actually.

[ac195]

Great episode.

The prologue at the end was a little jarring though... if they were going for the feel that the first season ended on... then they missed the mark a bit.

*prays for something in December* (but understands if nothing happens, kami-sama has better things to do)

[Ithekro]

Yep, that's Haruhi. Managed to be distracted even when there was a huge explosion and debris falling from the sky...and possibly the kid in shock from the event.

Kind of weird that she's the reality warper...she missed everything. Or at least it doesn't click even if she notices...like the cherry trees blooming...in October/November. But then, as she said, otherwise it would be too easy, having everyone at her fingertips already. But they are Haruhi, they just don't want you to know for their own various reasons...and the hope you won't destroy the universe.

[Selofain]

SHAMISEEEEEEN <3

Yay, they finally got to my favorite part of Sigh! I love that cat.:D

Oh, the cafe scene. Same cafe, same table, there's only four of them, and Kyon still sits on the sidelines. Even when Haruhi's not there, she's there...in their heads mwahaha. Also, whenever Koizumi and Kyon were on screen together, I kept wanting to smash their heads together so they'd start making out. =/ I have no idea where this urge is coming from. I don't even like them as a couple. I like listening to them talk, but I think it's just because I'm tired.

Tsuruya was in the shadows when Mikuru was talking to Kyon about not trusting Koizumi. Dunno why I mentioned it, just thought it was worth mentioning. XD

*nyao*

Warrior lulz.

Forgive me if this is outside episode discussion, but I have a dilemma: I downloaded the episode from Mazui, which I thought would be the sub but it has no subs. This is the second week this has happened. I would think it was just that they were only releasing the raws in the first place, and I'm the only person expecting otherwise, but last week the Mazui subbed episode was already up on various streaming sites when I tried loading the file, so apparently it was available. So, what am I doing wrong?

Check your codecs. This happened to me for a bit, which was solved by reinstalling my codecs (I use CCCP).

lol awkward smiling part epilogue, even though it wasn't made clear that this was after Melancholy and not Sigh.

[kniteowl]

YAY more Yuki biting Mikuru fanservice.

and Koizumi's big foreshadow reveal, although I was thinking about sliders when he was talking to Kyon.

the lighting and illusion of this episode was epic, I actually believed that the rain was actually on the windows and the lighting with Kyon's conversation with all the Brigade members excluding Haruhi was well done.

[Kaisos Erranon]

This is the best episode of anything I've seen in a long time. :heh:

This really got me back in the mood for Haruhi. But, uh, yeah...

Best parts were easily the cat and the Generic Fantasy guys, and everything after the Deep Space Sky shot... but the episode as a whole was amazing.

10/10

IT'S PERFECTO

[worldruined]

I never said it need ninja skils. Is just was the image that comes to my mind when I read Roger Rambo's post. Mori isn't even a ninja to beging with it. Haruhi-chan is not canon.
I wasn't really being serious about the Organization training their staff in the art of ninjitsu, you know. :nod:

[taishi363]

great episode, favorite part was yuki talking to kyon and the ending. yuki looked so badass :D

btw, this is the end of sighs correct? does that mean this season is over? will that mean it'll be a while before they show disappearance?

[Dr. Casey]

While I really liked Sighs, I don't think that I'd want it to be spread out over eight episodes. Five is definitely enough, imo.

Oh, I agree. Five episodes is the perfect length (Though you could maybe consider the next episode to be Sighs Part VI if you wanted to - it would sort of fit with the arc's unconvential nature, I suppose, with the climax arguably being in Part IV). I was just lamenting the fact that Sighs passed in the blink of an eye while Endless Eight was closer to... I dunno, 595 years.

If this arc repeats another 7 times before the ending airs, i swear i will hunt you down :heh:

:heh:

And I'd deserve that considering how amazing Sighs V was. I'm too lazy to do a complete breakdown of the episode, I'll save that for Triple, but a review would basically consist of me praising every second of the episode. The subterfuge and turmoil between the opposing factions was as engrossing as ever, Haruhi's "I'll help too" was touching (Even if it was undone seconds later with her not helping at all :heh:), the absurdity of Kyon engaging in intellectual discourse with a cat actually had me laughing, the sky at 16:54 was beautiful (Even though I'm not sure why it turned from a normal night sky into something like that in a matter of seconds, it was like the ending of Rockin' Kats or something), and it was even educational with that bit about the passenger pigeons. I didn't even notice Tsuruya in the shadows, I thought that was Nagato at first. Must've been sitting at the wrong angle.

Anyway, great episode. I like how Sighs I was incredibly simple, almost plain, and built up to something like this. Hope Kyoto continues linking the episodes to reality somehow and starts Disappearance along with the third cour on December 18th.

[Akka]

Very good episode. Alternating the funny (Mikuru's blasting water gun while Haruhi talk to a kid was priceless :D) and the serious (Itsuki speaking about the bloodbath going on behind the scene is seriously frightening and shows the whole Haruhi club take a whole other perspective - if I were Kyon, I would lose sleep about all the lives destroyed due to how I handled or not a whimsical little girl).

The "prologue at the end" was weird - I thought it was the actual ending until I went here and read it on this thread.
But the progress from "fiction interwined with reality" toward "fiction in movie, reality is real" was well done, and the idea actually worked and felt logical.
One thing I wonder : the public seemed shocked when seeing the movie. I can't decide if Haruhi's desire for her movie to be great affected people and entranced them, or if they were just stunned by how bad the movie was.

A last thing this episode made, was to change a lot the feeling of the group. Up 'til now, they all seemed to be a gang of different people from different factions teaming up for a common interest, in a rather light-hearted mood ; that is, they had huge responsabilities, but rather liked being together.
This ep make the whole show take a different turn, and give them a much more ambiguous feeling, of manipulative people wearing a mask and ready for any infighting, only glued at the same place by Haruhi.
For me, this episode was much better than the previous one, and made the show move forward more - though I know the previous was, in fact, more important, because it dealt with Haruhi and not the "small fry" around her ; but as I find this "small fry" more interesting, and where the story actually takes place, well...



How, and as a side not, I know that many people have read the novels, but it's becoming very tiring to see all kind of half-spoilers from the next iteration when you only saw the animes - and when you wish to keep it that way - , some people should get a better look at the first post in each of the anime episode thread.

[worldruined]

One thing I wonder : the public seemed shocked when seeing the movie. I can't decide if Haruhi's desire for her movie to be great affected people and entranced them, or if they were just stunned by how bad the movie was.
Ogling Asahina-san.

(And possibly mentally writing death threats for Koizumi.)

[ac195]

How, and as a side not, I know that many people have read the novels, but it's becoming very tiring to see all kind of half-spoilers from the next iteration when you only saw the animes - and when you wish to keep it that way - , some people should get a better look at the first post in each of the anime episode thread.

Just go and read the novels already. Hell, you can start with Disappearance (4th novel) at this point. It isn't that heavy a read and you can easily finish it up over the course of a day.

To be honest, I don't know how an anime adaptation of Disappearance is gonna live up to the LN... that's how great I think it is.

Also, the LNs provide a more vivid experience with Kyon. I think you'd enjoy looking through his eyes.

[Takamura Mamoru]

- Did Haruhi just hum Ritt der Walküren? :D
- OH GOD I'M LAUGHING MY ASS OFF SHAMISENS VOICE IS AWESOME
- Fuck yes, Yuki talk!
- Lolwut, suddenly three dimensional camera work?
- What the fuck, super water guns? Nice dodging work, Yuki.
- Extremely shady Koizumi again. Did he really just joke?
- Oh my god I swear to god the epilogue was so brilliantly made. I was hammering my desk the entire time. WIN DIRECTION IS WIN.

10/10, seriously.

I was fucking SMASHING MY HAND ON THE DESK, HAMMERING because most of the scenes were just fucking awesome.

After all the EE crap, I can't believe they still did Sighs so incredibly good. I'd even dare say it's better than the novel counterpart.

And now it's over ;_;

[palehorse864]

Someone needs to take sighs and paste it all together while removing the intro and exit to make a seamless Haruhi movie. They have to be careful though to end it exactly on the last frame and begin the next segment exactly on the first frame while resubtitling. Hopefully in HD.

How do you break apart MKV files and get them into Sony Vegas? I would love to try this at home, but I would probably have to watch it without subtitles after that.

Hrh, I'm not sure what to do with the end except leave it. It cuts from them going to screen the movie (Pre episode 00) to them walking out of the screening room (Right after Haruhi says "Ne Kyon!?" in Episode 00) and then cuts to the festival which should be at some point during the middle of Live Alive, it then cuts to the prologue.

If you wanted to edit it all together, throw the prologue on the front, cut straight from them leaving the club room to Episode 00, and then after the "Ne Kyon" at the end of Episode 00, cut back to the last part of Sighs with them walking out of the club room and maybe integrate the rest into Live Alive.

[Peanutbutter003]

What happened in that game, by the way? I doubt is canon (unless Tanigawa had write the plot), bt I am curious now.

The game starts with the end of Melancholy VI ala the Kyon/Haruhi cafe scene which we see animated at the end of this episode. Same lines etc.

The actual game centres around the day before the school festival. Specifically, the day may keep on repeating itself, Endless Eight style, if you do not select the correct issue to talk to, to the correct people, at the correct time.

Now about the editing of the movie. As you managed to proceed on with the game, with everyday actually still repeating itself (Things that happen in that day starts to differs = Game proceeds on, Things actually repeating ad nauseum = Game not proceeding on), Kyon actually manages to edit the movie bit by bit by bit. (Why it carries over? It's just one of those questions. ;)) In some of the endings, Kyon actually managed to complete the editing.

For the theme song Koi no Mikuru Densetsu, it's a non-missable event in the game whereby Haruhi catches Mikuru to go record the song, then comes back and order Kyon to put it in.

Basically, that sums up the question about the movie. There's a lot of "routes" you can take in the game, to unlock about 16 different endings in total, both good and bad.

[Akka]

Just go and read the novels already.
Which part of "when you only saw the animes - and when you wish to keep it that way" escaped you ?

[Heatth]

She was distracted by a kid talking to her right when the guns fired... :heh:

That part made me laugh a hell of a lot, actually.

Yep, that's Haruhi. Managed to be distracted even when there was a huge explosion and debris falling from the sky...and possibly the kid in shock from the event.

Kind of weird that she's the reality warper...she missed everything. Or at least it doesn't click even if she notices...like the cherry trees blooming...in October/November. But then, as she said, otherwise it would be too easy, having everyone at her fingertips already. But they are Haruhi, they just don't want you to know for their own various reasons...and the hope you won't destroy the universe.

Lol, I totally missed that kid. Must be funny, yeah. There is still the 'shurikens'. And the explosions. And, following the novel, the micro black hole. That kid surely talks a lot. :heh:

One thing I wonder : the public seemed shocked when seeing the movie. I can't decide if Haruhi's desire for her movie to be great affected people and entranced them, or if they were just stunned by how bad the movie was.


As said by worldruined, the people wasn't shocked, they were oggling Mikuru. I aways understand it was Haruhi wanted the movie to be a sucess, i.e., many people watching it. Which happened, due to Asahina beautifulness.

The game starts with the end of Melancholy VI ala the Kyon/Haruhi cafe scene which we see animated at the end of this episode. Same lines etc.

The actual game centres around the day before the school festival. Specifically, the day may keep on repeating itself, Endless Eight style, if you do not select the correct issue to talk to, to the correct people, at the correct time.

Now about the editing of the movie. As you managed to proceed on with the game, with everyday actually still repeating itself (Things that happen in that day starts to differs = Game proceeds on, Things actually repeating ad nauseum = Game not proceeding on), Kyon actually manages to edit the movie bit by bit by bit. (Why it carries over? It's just one of those questions. ;)) In some of the endings, Kyon actually managed to complete the editing.

For the theme song Koi no Mikuru Densetsu, it's a non-missable event in the game whereby Haruhi catches Mikuru to go record the song, then comes back and order Kyon to put it in.

Basically, that sums up the question about the movie. There's a lot of "routes" you can take in the game, to unlock about 16 different endings in total, both good and bad.

I see. Thanks.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Someone needs to take sighs and paste it all together while removing the intro and exit to make a seamless Haruhi movie. They have to be careful though to end it exactly on the last frame and begin the next segment exactly on the first frame while resubtitling. Hopefully in HD.

Won't work. Unless no one minds sudden shifts in quality mid-scene. :heh:

[Rice_slayer]

^ LMAO! True though, art has been great for the past few episodes. I loved this one but hate it because we don't know when the next new episode(if there ever will be one made...). 10/10, Shami was hilarious and did anyone else notice Tsuyura standing in the shadows when Mikuru was talking with Kyon? Dang this was a good series ender, but now I dont have a weekly anime fix for awhile :(.

[worldruined]

As said by worldruined, the people wasn't shocked, they were oggling Mikuru. I aways understand it was Haruhi wanted the movie to be a sucess, i.e., many people watching it. Which happened, due to Asahina beautifulness.
It's mostly just the Asahina Mikuru Fan Club. If you watch Live Alive, you'll notice that the same all-male glasses-wearing audience also makes up the crowd of customers at her class's fried soba café (which had nothing to do with Haruhi).

Conversely, the entire audience for Koizumi's play seems to consist of girls. (I never caught this before, but... some of the girls in the front are even snapping photos with their cell phones. Apparently there's a Koizumi Itsuki Fan Club in school, too? XD)

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

now I dont have a weekly anime fix for awhile :(.

Umineko no Naku Koro ni.

Unless murder mysteries with a touch of the supernatural aren't your thing, then I don't know what to tell you. :heh:

Conversely, the entire audience for Koizumi's play seems to consist of girls. (I never caught this before, but... some of the girls in the front are even snapping photos with their cell phones. Apparently there's a Koizumi Itsuki Fan Club in school, too? XD)

Mikuru and Nagato are both confirmed to have "fan clubs" within the school, and Kyon has mentioned how attractive Koizumi is several times. Doesn't surprise me in the least. :heh:

[OkamiNoKaze]

And Sighs has come to an end, I thought it was interesting putting that scene at the end rather then the beginning of the story. Shamisen was awesome. I noticed Tsuruya lurking in the back ground of that scene too. I liked that shot of Kyon looking at the nebula looking sky. As far as the movie finishing itself, I was under the impression all the footage was shot, I think that includes the Mikuru song. that it was just editing and other post production stuff needed being done. I think showing the show in Chronological order, and end presumable ending on Someday in the rain ( which always had a season end, rather then a series end feel) could indicate more at some point. Now that the new episode are finished, does anyone think it should they should have been included at the beginning, of course with maybe 4 less endless 8 episodes?

[Heatth]

It's mostly just the Asahina Mikuru Fan Club. If you watch Live Alive, you'll notice that the same all-male glasses-wearing audience also makes up the crowd of customers at her class's fried soba café (which had nothing to do with Haruhi).

Conversely, the entire audience for Koizumi's play seems to consist of girls. (I never caught this before, but... some of the girls in the front are even snapping photos with their cell phones. Apparently there's a Koizumi Itsuki Fan Club in school, too? XD)

Well, yeah. But is still a lot of people. I think Haruhi was more concerned about the quantity of the public over the quality. :heh:

And, yeah, Itsuki is very good looking. Even Kyon says so.

[worldruined]

...and Kyon has mentioned how attractive Koizumi is several times.
Oh, Kyon. Koizumi would probably appreciate it if you complimented him out loud a little more often. :heehee:

Now I wonder if Koizumi's class decided to switch to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead precisely to give him a larger role in the hopes of attracting a larger crowd. XD


Well, yeah. But is still a lot of people. I think Haruhi was more concerned about the quantity of the public over the quality. :heh:
I don't think it was really Haruhi's doing, though, other than her excellent judgment in choosing her mascot (and thus her leading actress). A movie starring a beauty like Asahina-san in skimpy outfits would have attracted her fan club no matter what, with or without Haruhi, which is why the same crowd is also at the café. They're just following their idol.

[Heatth]

I don't think it was really Haruhi's doing, though, other than her excellent judgment in choosing her mascot (and thus her leading actress). A movie starring a beauty like Asahina-san in skimpy outfits would have attracted her fan club no matter what, with or without Haruhi, which is why the same crowd is also at the café. They're just following their idol.

I believe Haruhi's powers don't work in a 'magic' way. Is not like she wants something and then something just pop from nowhere (exept for the end of Melancholy and Sighs), but things just naturally work fine to her. She is a good student, an athletic person, everyone who she randomly grabs to her club accept without complain... She wants to win a game, so someone will cheat to make it possible, she wants many hits on her site, so something happens to get over 2 million on the counter... She watns many people to see her movie, so many people do.

There is a a logical explanation for every ocasion. But is still happening because Haruhi wants to.

[OkamiNoKaze]

Oh and I also loved haruhi humming Ride of the Valkeries, some how in my mind, "Kill the wabbit" went through my head, along with the image of Haruhi in a viking helmet chasing Mikuru.

[typhonsentra]

What I always found so irritating about this portion of the story is how it's never built upon. After volume two we never again hear much about the rivalries between espers and time travelers. Matter of fact, they're aligned with each other now apparently. It's interesting though, even if he was tired this is probably the one and only time Koizumi's ever let his guard down in front of Kyon and was honest with him about his intentions in their club.

Another thing, it's been years since I read the book but I remember a scene where Koizumi is trying to convince Harhi to let him trade places with Kyon as he's so exhausted. Am I just remembering wrong or was it cut?

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Oh and I also loved haruhi humming Ride of the Valkeries, some how in my mind, "Kill the wabbit" went through my head

... Damn you! Now I'm gonna hear that. :heh:

[GMT]

The "prologue at the end" was weird - I thought it was the actual ending until I went here and read it on this thread.
They give one clue for the eagle-eyed that this scene takes place before the rest of Sighs, and before BLR, even.

No stolen bamboo branch with tanzaku on it.
But the progress from "fiction interwined with reality" toward "fiction in movie, reality is real" was well done, and the idea actually worked and felt logical.
One thing I wonder : the public seemed shocked when seeing the movie. I can't decide if Haruhi's desire for her movie to be great affected people and entranced them, or if they were just stunned by how bad the movie was.
Apparently 100% of the movie's audience are teenaged boys. They're probably not watching for the plot. :heh:

A last thing this episode made, was to change a lot the feeling of the group. Up 'til now, they all seemed to be a gang of different people from different factions teaming up for a common interest, in a rather light-hearted mood ; that is, they had huge responsabilities, but rather liked being together.
This ep make the whole show take a different turn, and give them a much more ambiguous feeling, of manipulative people wearing a mask and ready for any infighting, only glued at the same place by Haruhi.
Now we know where Koizumi gets the strength to restrain Kyon one-handed. I can see a young Koizumi, in the days before he transferred into North High, carrying out hits against rival organizations in the dead of night. Beating up people for protection money. Running guns and drugs to finance the Organization's secret war. If they made a game about that, I'd play it.

[swtrooper42]

Itsumo no fuukei (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-5nJdptkp4) was played. All is well.

The prologue at the end actually takes place back at the end of Melancholy. Haruhi and Kyon are wearing the same outfits and everything.

Medieval guys were weird. I don't remember them.
Shamisens voice is win.

Overall, I think it's a perfect episode to end the second season on. Let's hope we don't have to wait three more years for season 3.

I want my Sasaki fix.

[GMT]

Just go and read the novels already. Hell, you can start with Disappearance (4th novel) at this point. It isn't that heavy a read and you can easily finish it up over the course of a day.
Spoiler tags really aren't that hard to use. There are people out there who would rather not have their anime viewing experience be spoiled by smug novel readers or find reading the unofficial translations online a pain in the ass. (Or they can't. Baka-tsuki is blocked by at least one of the major commercial suppliers of corporate firewall software.)

[worldruined]

Now we know where Koizumi gets the strength to restrain Kyon one-handed. I can see a young Koizumi, in the days before he transferred into North High, carrying out hits against rival organizations in the dead of night. Beating up people for protection money. Running guns and drugs to finance the Organization's secret war. If they made a game about that, I'd play it.
Considering the mini-trend of gun-toting!Koizumi fanart, it must already be out in Japan. XD

[GMT]

Considering the mini-trend of gun-toting!Koizumi fanart, it must already be out in Japan. XD
Pics, or it didn't happen.

[mokuseimaru]

One thing I wonder : the public seemed shocked when seeing the movie. I can't decide if Haruhi's desire for her movie to be great affected people and entranced them, or if they were just stunned by how bad the movie was.



"The Adventures of Mikuru Asahina" isn't as bad a movie as you make it out to be. If nothing else, Kyon's narration makes it pretty interesting viewing. I imagine most people would have looked at it as a parody of the Magical Girl genre. Also, fanservice---and Mikuru has quite a few in-universe fans

I gave this one a 9/10. Koizumi's speech in particular, with all the moody lighting, was very well done. One thing that I thought was a little cheap, though, was how Haruhi just happened to have her head turned while taking to that kid (is that who I think it is?) when Mikuru shoots a super-high pressure water canon from her bb guns. Oh well though. Oh, and the guy in search of the "crystal crescent" was hysterical. Was that part in the novels or no?

Anyway, you could say that the true significance of Endless Eight is about to be made apparent. I know there were, are probably still are, people who defended Kyoani/Kadokawa on the grounds that a "true" second season was surely on the way. Well, now well shall see.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

I imagine most people would have looked at it as a parody of the Magical Girl genre.

That's how I always viewed it. The fact that Kyon pretty much mentions the genre by name during his narration doesn't hurt. :heh:

[OkamiNoKaze]

Something I always wondered though, is the narration in Mikuru 00 part of the film, or is it internal narration heard by us.

[Sackett]

Ahh man... I forgot how good Sighs was. The disagreements between the factions begins to appear, we get an idea of how dangerous Haruhi can be even when she's happy.

"Don't trust Kozumi" as if Kyon needed to be told that.

Oh and please tell me that right now someone out there is working on a vampire themed Yuki Nagato AMV.

Also, now that the cat is talking, in philosophical ramblings about the nature of truth no less, do we add a new theory as to the origin of Haruhi?

Is it all just a neko-ken induced nightmare of Ranma?

[Lvrhina]

In another 3 years, maybe we would get disapparence ... that is if there are still haruhi fans around.

[Game8910]

In another 3 years, maybe we would get disapparence ... that is if there are still haruhi fans around.

Everytime i read that comment I laugh at the stupidity of people, Endless Eight was a bad move yes, but the franchise is FAR from dying and the fans are still bigger than most animes out there. The blow of E8 did indeed cause damage but as time goes by people will let it go and nothing will have changed.

And those who have forsaken the anime forever, they can do what they want. Hell, I would recommend them to read the novels instead. E8 is over, and those who still dwell over it to this day need to learn to let go.

[Ithekro]

How does one atone for Endless Eight? Make the worst novel epic. Done and done.

[Sackett]

And now I just imagined Mori dressed as ninja entering in the clubroom by the window and working in the computer without waking Kyon up (he was sleeping over the keyboard).

This theory actully make sense. Maybe not a ninja Mori, but Itsuki's agency is crazy and paranoid enough to make sure the movie would be finished in time.

Ninja Maid! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NinjaMaid)

[aegisofrime]

So, if Haruhi doesn't believe that Yuki, Koizumi and Mikuru are actually what they are, that means that she didn't create them!

I never did bought Koizumi's Haruhi is God theory anyway.

[GMT]

Something I always wondered though, is the narration in Mikuru 00 part of the film, or is it internal narration heard by us.
Since it's pretty snarky and much of the snark is directed towards the director, I suspect that Kyon's narration is him MSTing the film and us hearing his thoughts. That, or the narrative is actually there, but Haruhi doesn't mind because it increases the amusement value of the film by about 200%

[4as]

Koizumi's rambling about other organizationas and Tsuruya's lurking in the shadow got me thinking that she is maybe a part of one.

How does one atone for Endless Eight?
IMO, there is nothing to atone for.
Endless Eight is like Spaghetti westerns back in the day - they were considered to be retarded but now they are classics of Cinematography.

Also
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1610/grab34805.jpg
I remember someone saying people will hate Haruhi after Sighs but that arc made me fell for her all over again :S

[kk2extreme]

idk but the cat steal the show, nuff said

[GMT]

Koizumi's rambling about other organizationas and Tsuruya's lurking in the shadow got me thinking that she is maybe a part of one. Well, she did help Mikuru get Kyon alone so she could go into her "Don't trust that no-good bastard Koizumi" speech. The novels give further hints at Tsuruya's role, but there are spoiler-rich threads around here that probably discuss that in detail.

Also
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1610/grab34805.jpg
I remember someone saying people will hate Haruhi after Sighs but that arc made me fell for her all over again :S
YMMV. The Sighs arc renewed the vigor of my fandom for Haruhi, the show/franchise. But watching Haruhi's scraping along the moral rock-bottom come to richly-animated life has cooled the warm feelings I had for Haruhi, the character.

[Kaioshin Sama]

I find it very telling that the animation quality is finally back to full 2006 level (even showcasing the return of the random Kyoani over the top animation sequence....several of them in fact) in this last episode (it's almost like they decided to focus the majority of the budget here and in fact probably did) of the season, but not surprising in the least. It's so typical of what I've seen of Kyoani/Kadokawa in that they always love to have the parts the viewer is likely to remember most actually look good (climaxes, season openers and enders) so that it will leave them with a positive impression going out of the show. Blatant, but at least it gives the sense that they are actually trying again, and I get to actually enjoy and laugh with the show rather than at it.....albeit obviously far too little and far too late.

Anyway there were parts of this episode that were actually mildly to moderately interesting such as the simple solution to an odd problem that was handled MUCH better than the way it was in Endless Eight (i.e without overkilling it for no reason), and the banter between characters which was actually decently written. It really seems like they were actually trying for the first time all season, because the scene direction was interesting, the jokes actually almost kind of witty (like the better 2006 episodes), the scenes featured the characters actually being developed (holy shit!) and the pacing was actually existent even if it did drag a bit during the middle portions of the episode with the attempts at philisophical discussion.

Too bad it comes far too late to save this season from taking the crown from GSD for in my opinion the weakest followup to a viable franchise that just needed an extra push ever. I'll deal more with that issue in the overall impressions thread though, but for now I'm just startled that there was actually an episode of this series that could once again meet my expectations for a franchise that is supposed to be top tier.

Of course it leaves me to wonder about what could have been if the other episodes had even exhibited half of the effort that was put into this one so the whole thing left a good impression. I'll ponder that too for the impressions thread, but for the time being it is my greatest pleasure to actually be able to award this particular episode the quantative rating of 9/10. Never thought I'd get to do this.

[Triple_R]

I give it 9/10 as well.

This episode is a little bit overrated on this thread, but it is an excellent episode. Of all the episodes of the year, it's the one with the best artwork, and the most character intrigue. This signal episode does more to make me dwell on the real situation within the SOS Brigade than any other Haruhi episode that I've ever watched. It changes my perception of Mikuru and Koizumi quite a bit, and even Nagato can be looked upon in a slightly different light due to this episode. I hasten to add that I never read Novel 2 up to this point, so these are all new developments for me, as I encounter them for the first time in this anime episode.


My only criticism is that it does feel a bit like a "mop up" episode in the same vein as the last episode of Nanoha Striker S; like Nanoha Striker S, the real climax came well before the start of the last episode, meaning that the sense of drama and suspense is lost for me. However, this episode of Haruhi largely makes up for that with simply splendid artwork and animation, as well as with some exquisite character intrigue and cause for deeper analysis.

Oh... and I personally think that throwing in the prologue at the end was unnecessary, and that this episode probably would have been better (quite possibly a 10/10 for me) if it had taken the time it devoted to that prologue, to instead go slower on the final filming moments, and maybe give us more (or longer) ultracool scenes of Mikuru shooting various massive wonderful attacks with those charming eyes of hers. ;)

Shamisen was very nicely voice-acted, but he wasn't the highlight of this episode for me, as appeared to be the case for most people on this thread.

The highlight of the episode for me was seeing the internal divisions within the SOS Brigade on full display. I'll probably have more to say about that in a Blog entry later today or tomorrow.


Kaioshin... you may have been right about DVD sales, my friend, but it looks like I was right about 2006 Haruhi's original artwork returning with this arc, wasn't I? ;)

Good to see KyoAni can still do great Haruhi episodes when they want to.


... Does Sighs make up for Endless Eight?

For my own personal entertainment? It mostly makes up for it.

For this anime/franchise as a whole? I don't know yet. That's something I'm going to continue to dwell on for awhile.

Sighs was certainly extremely well done. Aside from minor nitpicks (and art issues with the very first part of the five), I have little to say against it.


As a hockey fan, KyoAni reminds me of former Montreal Canadiens sniper Stephane Richer. When Richer wasn't lazy, and wanted to actually do his best, he was a top-notch 50 goal scorer... likewise, KyoAni is awesome when they actually care. But just like Richer could be a real floater and disappear for, say, up to 8 games at a time (he he ;) ), the same is true of KyoAni. From a fan's perspective, that creates a real conflicted love/hate feeling. And that's how I feel towards KyoAni as a result.

But... to end on a positive note, it's been a fun ride here on Anime Suki's Haruhi board the past two to three months. It's rarely been dull that's for sure!

[Stardust Romance]

Dammit, as soon as I start to really enjoy something, it ends :(

Straight up 10/10 for me. Sure there was alot of talking, but it was still enjoyable.
And that was such a lovely shot of Kyon waking up ( & him sleeping with one-eye half open, beautiful Kyon lol )

I don't know what else to say about this episode. The uneasy mood was done nicely and I've been in Kyon's shoes before with everyone entrusting me with their business & opinions of one another. I'm always the one stuck in the middle of something.

But the ending was the icing on the cake.
Haruhi & Kyon smiling and nodding at eachother like idiots.
And Haruhi's out-burst was hilarious xD

[Reckoner]

I, like Kaoshin, consider episodes like this the reason why KyoAni is clearly one of the most frustrating studios out there.

It is so obvious when they actually put effort and quality in their work, and that the rest of the time they are just d*cking around.

As a reader of the novels I am very glad to see the last two Sighs episodes done well, as these last two episodes were the only thing worth really seeing about this novel in the first place.

I've always viewed Sighs as a set up novel. It helps to really understand the factions around Haruhi, as well as the mechanics of Haruhi's powers.

I also gave this episode a 9/10. Please KyoAni, stop patronizing your fan base... Unfortunately it has to an end, and I am sure we can get trolled again for awhile till Disappearance is animated...

On another note, WHERE IS MAH NOVEL 10!!!?!!?!

[aulzon]

Ever since 00 I wanted to hear Shamisen talk again, and he was adorable in this episode. It's too bad he loses his ability after.

Great episode, felt a lot more rounded then previous episodes. Watching Sigh episodes always makes me want to go rewatch the finished product again. Haruhi and Kyon moment at the end is nice as well.

Also, is this the last episode? ;_;. Please tell me you are doing disappearance soon Kyoani.

[mokuseimaru]

So, if Haruhi doesn't believe that Yuki, Koizumi and Mikuru are actually what they are, that means that she didn't create them!

I never did bought Koizumi's Haruhi is God theory anyway.

I think Koizumi himself said he didn't buy the theory because if Haruhi was God (because she is unaware of her power), and that it was just something many higher ups in the Organization held too. He says that if there is indeed a God, Haruhi is the person who has been chosen by God, though for what purpose its not clear. I think he posits that Haruhi might actually be supposed to correct the world...like the Flood in Genesis...only the reason for this purge would be that normal humans are too dull and apathetic, rather than simply too wicked, to go on living. Not that that's what I think, mind you.

[Akka]

The novels give further hints at Tsuruya's role, but there are spoiler-rich threads around here that probably discuss that in detail.
You ARE aware that saying that is ALREADY a spoiler by itself ?

God, can't you just let people discover the story themselves ? As you said, there is already spoiler-rich threads for that. Here we are supposed to talk about the episode and the anime serie, not the future material.

[Kaioshin Sama]

I give it 9/10 as well.

This episode is a little bit overrated on this thread, but it is an excellent episode.

Yeah after 3 years of it you eventually learn to just ignore all the hype for what it is. As a result there's only about 5 or so people who's posts I actually still read on the Kyoani series boards. :heh:

My only criticism is that it does feel a bit like a "mop up" episode in the same vein as the last episode of Nanoha Striker S; like Nanoha Striker S, the real climax came well before the start of the last episode, meaning that the sense of drama and suspense is lost for me. However, this episode of Haruhi largely makes up for that with simply splendid artwork and animation, as well as with some exquisite character intrigue and cause for deeper analysis.

Most climaxes do come before the final episode of a series, but honestly I felt this lead out was actually better executed than the climax last episode.

Oh... and I personally think that throwing in the prologue at the end was unnecessary, and that this episode probably would have been better (quite possibly a 10/10 for me) if it had taken the time it devoted to that prologue, to instead go slower on the final filming moments, and maybe give us more (or longer) ultracool scenes of Mikuru shooting various massive wonderful attacks with those charming eyes of hers. ;)

That was probably them trying to link this season with the original. In some ways this whole affair reminds me of Gundam 0083, which was made specifically to fill in the gap between the original Gundam and Zeta Gundam, but met with mixed results because the director, animation staff and writers kept changing. Of course Gundam 0083 ultimately served it's purpose and I found it entertaining, whereas I said Haruhi 2009 more or less ended up like Gundam Seed Destiny for me, albeit with a much better ending.

Shamisen was very nicely voice-acted, but he wasn't the highlight of this episode for me, as appeared to be the case for most people on this thread.

Honestly I just found the whole talky cat thing kind of gimmicky and unnecessary, but like you say that's the kind of thing that a lot of people seem to go for, which is why it gets put in. Granted I do like a lot of the magical girl series that feature talking animals, but Shamisen was hardly necessary to the story. The one thing that did surprise me though is that I all but expected George Nakata's voice to come out of the cat's mouth (with a possibility of Norio Wakamot), but it was Kenichi Ogata instead.

The highlight of the episode for me was seeing the internal divisions within the SOS Brigade on full display. I'll probably have more to say about that in a Blog entry later today or tomorrow.

Anyway the highlight of the episode for me were the dialogues between Kyon and each of the individual characters about where they stand in all of these SOS Brigade shennanigans. It's a really rare insight into the characters heads and some actual character development as opposed to the usually parading around and troping (Kyon=sarcastic, Haruhi=obnoxious, Mikuru=whiny, Itsuki=smug, Yuki=quiet, Tsuruya=laughing etc.) which Kyoani's writers seem to favour.

Kaioshin... you may have been right about DVD sales, my friend, but it looks like I was right about 2006 Haruhi's original artwork returning with this arc, wasn't I? ;)

Well actually I kind of did expect to see it return in the last episode because a) it means it'll be the part that people will have clearest in their minds when they go to buy the DVD's and Blurays and b) it will help it match up better with the next episode which will be from 2006. 99% because of a) though.

... Does Sighs make up for Endless Eight?

For my own personal entertainment? It mostly makes up for it.

For this anime/franchise as a whole? I don't know yet. That's something I'm going to continue to dwell on for awhile.

Well obviously for me it's not even close. I'm still floating on somewhere between below average and poor right now, but I'll have to think about it. It'll probably be poor though just because of the sheer lack of effort that was put into the majority of the season.

Sighs was certainly extremely well done. Aside from minor nitpicks (and art issues with the very first part of the five), I have little to say against it.

I think the ending was well done, but that the majority of it was just okay.

As a hockey fan, KyoAni reminds me of former Montreal Canadiens sniper Stephane Richer. When Richer wasn't lazy, and wanted to actually do his best, he was a top-notch 50 goal scorer... likewise, KyoAni is awesome when they actually care. But just like Richer could be a real floater and disappear for, say, up to 8 games at a time (he he ;) ), the same is true of KyoAni. From a fan's perspective, that creates a real conflicted love/hate feeling. And that's how I feel towards KyoAni as a result.

Yeah that's a pretty good analogy and I totally know what you feel about Kyoani. My biggest issue with them still has to be that they seemingly refuse to live up to even a moderate measure (all I'm looking for) of the hype and mythologies that people have created about them over the years when I know they probably can. In my eyes they are still kind of like a Carlos Mencia, who through the sheer nature of show business and opportunity (and not to mention "referencing" of other people's popular work) somehow managed to make it big despite it being questionable how much of a role they ever played in their own rise to the bigger leagues of their profession. However they missed a few key steps along the way there due to the haste with which they were thrust into the limelight as the next big thing and as a result there's still a lot of areas where their lack of experience shows and which no amount of pretty imagery or gimmickery will patch up.

But... to end on a positive note, it's been a fun ride here on Anime Suki's Haruhi board the past two to three months. It's rarely been dull that's for sure!

I'll just say that it didn't turn out at all how I expected. The roaring from the peanut gallery wasn't nearly as deafening as it was back in 2006 with this franchise and I somehow managed to not get into even one single fight. :D

[Heatth]

The importance of Shamisen is the debate that happened because he started to talk. Is to make really evident Haruhi is changing more things then they can control. People like him cause he is amuzing (he start a philosophical dabate as soon as he start to talk).

Anyway, after seeing the subs, I remembered why novel!Sighs don't sucks to me. While I really think most part of it is boring to read (but not to watch), these final discussions are very interesting. Mikuru clearly stating she thinks Itsuki says bullshit, Itsuki saying Mikuru might being a farce, Nagato being neutral.

Another interesting things was seeing Tsuruya nearby when Kyon and Mikuru were talking (maybe she heard something?), Shamisen watching the news at TV and Itsuki telling about possible fights behind the scenes(being Itsuki, is might be just a random lie).

However, that scene might be a nice foreshadow of the existence of the other ESPers and Time-Travelers

What was that pretty space view after Itsuki leaving Kyon at the streets? It didn't happened in the novel right? There is any meaning?

Post Postum:
Ah, the prologue at the end was very weird, indeed. The problem is there is no indication that it happens after the end of Melancholy. I wonder if non-novel readers can catch it,

[4as]

You ARE aware that saying that is ALREADY a spoiler by itself ?
Whoa, with what GMT said I thought it was nothing major, but now with your outburst I guess there is some serious shit going on with Tsuruya?

[Noe]

It felt like the season was ending there.

[arcticphoenix16]

The prologue at the end felt right. It was the best way to end this arc.

Sighs was done well, I'd give a 9/10 for this whole thing, ignoring endless eight of course.

[Akka]

Whoa, with what GMT said I thought it was nothing major, but now with your outburst I guess there is some serious shit going on with Tsuruya?
I don't know, I haven't read any novels. But I definitely got the feeling there was something at least important, and I would have prefered not to know - and not having even a hint.

[Little Buster]

Sigh in review: Great arc and all, I love to see Mikuru in the maid outfit again, Shamsin FTW, KYON PUNCH!!, and Koizumi goes at Kyon in a new way.(In the dark...) Now that its over, On with Disappearance!

[Myssa Rei]

A very good end to the Sigh's adaptation, but as usual this gets a 7 from me. You expected that, noh? ;)

It was interesting how the art style for this episode has mostly returned to it's 2006 roots, but it's very likely so it can more seamlessly mesh with the rest of the reruns (Episode 00 is supposed to come after this one, chronologically). I do wish that the quality exhibited in Sighs V had been showed in the rest of the new episodes, but eh, you take what you can get.

I'm not sure that the good adaptation of the Sighs novel (which many believe is the weakest in the franchise) will wash away the taste left over from Endless Eight for many, but I think it does go some ways into mending fences. People will now think twice now about trusting Kadokawa though.

However they missed a few key steps along the way there due to the haste with which they were thrust into the limelight as the next big thing and as a result there's still a lot of areas where their lack of experience shows and which no amount of pretty imagery or gimmickery will patch up.

I was under the impression that the hype surrounding Kyoto Animation only existed among Western viewers, instead of native Japanese watchers.

[Heminga13]

The only problem I have is that the ending of Sigh shows them coming out of the room after screening the movie and also shows some of early Live Alive before concluding with the flashback. Guess we'll see what happens next week.

[Change of Pace]

I LOVED this episode. Seriously, Shamisen having a psychological discussion with Kyon was beyond hilarious. xDDD

[4as]

I don't know, I haven't read any novels. But I definitely got the feeling there was something at least important, and I would have prefered not to know - and not having even a hint.
Pfff, ok, you got me worried for a second.
Spoiler-heavy thread my ass, I bet Tsuruya is nothing special (like being a second Asakura or something).
Back when 00 first aired, there was all that talk about Shamisen doing some serious spoiler-heavy business in Sighs. But after I've watched ... "what the... that is it?" Some kind of overreacting/overrating thingy.
Seriously, IMO, nothing to worry about.

[pagan poor]

Pretty good ending. I'll only say that the seeming internal rivalries between various groups in gaining Kyon's attention played out pretty well in the conversations. Though Yuki's somewhat vague comments regarding confirmation of truth seem to make things even more confusing for Kyon. There's alot at stake here outside of making sure that Haruhi doesn't get the wrong thoughts.

[-Sho-]

Well , yeah , thoses 2 final episodes was the best (with the First episodes bamboo leaf ) of this season ! Damn , its already the end , it was fast , well , if Kyoani didn't make 8 useless episodes for endless eight -_-"
Ahah Shamisen was great :)
Lol Kyon just need to talk to Haruhi that all go back to normal .
Good ending with a Haruhi upset .

[Proto]

Well ,you know, at the very least 2 of them were necessary for telling the story you see. :p

[Texas84]

As of this episode, this series is officially back. Great animation, great story. Loved every minute of it.

[velderia]

I'm definitely giving this a 8/10! I love this episode actually. It's now as exciting as it was when I was watching season 1. I especially LOVE the end. :heh:

[LusterFlare]

Good Episode. Loved Kyon's face when he wakes up lol.

[Triple_R]

Yeah after 3 years of it you eventually learn to just ignore all the hype for what it is. As a result there's only about 5 or so people who's posts I actually still read on the Kyoani series boards. :heh:

I might still take the hype a bit too much to heart, and hence let it influence my take a bit. Truthfully... I did get a little bit tired of the whole setup of this arc by the time this episode rolled around. Sunrise Director Haruhi, and her acting team, was starting to wear thin on me... which is why I was pleased to see the main focus of this episode be on the dialogues between Kyon and the three not-so-amigos. ;)


That was probably them trying to link this season with the original. In some ways this whole affair reminds me of Gundam 0083, which was made specifically to fill in the gap between the original Gundam and Zeta Gundam, but met with mixed results because the director, animation staff and writers kept changing. Of course Gundam 0083 ultimately served it's purpose and I found it entertaining, whereas I said Haruhi 2009 more or less ended up like Gundam Seed Destiny for me, albeit with a much better ending.

I hear you loud and clear on the Haruhi 2009/Gundam Seed Destiny comparison. While the more specific weaknesses of both sequels are rather different, the causes of those weaknesses are somewhat similar (in Haruhi 2009's case, it was KyoAni deciding to play around with the fans with their usual gimmickry; in GSD's case, it was the makers of the anime listening too much to the fans, imo - both would have been better if they had simply tried to tell good stories and present good content).


Anyway the highlight of the episode for me were the dialogues between Kyon and each of the individual characters about where they stand in all of these SOS Brigade shennanigans.

That's pretty much what I meant as well, just to be clear. It was nice to see how these three characters have some actual differences of opinion, and aren't as quietly buddy buddy as you may think.


It's a really rare insight into the characters heads and some actual character development as opposed to the usually parading around and troping (Kyon=sarcastic, Haruhi=obnoxious, Mikuru=whiny, Itsuki=smug, Yuki=quiet, Tsuruya=laughing etc.) which Kyoani's writers seem to favour.

Totally agree. To be brutally frank... what I liked most about Sighs is how it made these five characters feel a bit more like real people to me. I already saw Haruhi herself as multifaceted, but the rest of the cast, less so.


Well actually I kind of did expect to see it return in the last episode because a) it means it'll be the part that people will have clearest in their minds when they go to buy the DVD's and Blurays and b) it will help it match up better with the next episode which will be from 2006. 99% because of a) though.

Agreed.


Well obviously for me it's not even close. I'm still floating on somewhere between below average and poor right now, but I'll have to think about it. It'll probably be poor though just because of the sheer lack of effort that was put into the majority of the season.

I'm glad that you're here to provide a counterbalance to the hype, even if I personally am almost certainly going to rate it a notch or two higher than yourself. Right now, I'm leaning towards average.


Yeah that's a pretty good analogy and I totally know what you feel about Kyoani. My biggest issue with them still has to be that they seemingly refuse to live up to even a moderate measure (all I'm looking for) of the hype and mythologies that people have created about them over the years when I know they probably can.

Thanks, and that's the key for me too. If KyoAni simply put a honest effort into every episode that they did, and got away from the gimmickry, I have little doubt that they could, as you say, live up to a moderate measure of the hype and mythology surrounding them.


In my eyes they are still kind of like a Carlos Mencia, who through the sheer nature of show business and opportunity (and not to mention "referencing" of other people's popular work) somehow managed to make it big despite it being questionable how much of a role they ever played in their own rise to the bigger leagues of their profession. However they missed a few key steps along the way there due to the haste with which they were thrust into the limelight as the next big thing and as a result there's still a lot of areas where their lack of experience shows and which no amount of pretty imagery or gimmickery will patch up.

Good analogy.



I'll just say that it didn't turn out at all how I expected. The roaring from the peanut gallery wasn't nearly as deafening as it was back in 2006 with this franchise and I somehow managed to not get into even one single fight. :D

One thing that drew me back to Anime Suki was seeing actual debates between fans and critics of Haruhi on the Haruhi board itself. Controversy and discussion will always interest me more than hype, in the long-run at least.




It was interesting how the art style for this episode has mostly returned to it's 2006 roots, but it's very likely so it can more seamlessly mesh with the rest of the reruns (Episode 00 is supposed to come after this one, chronologically). I do wish that the quality exhibited in Sighs V had been showed in the rest of the new episodes, but eh, you take what you can get.

Agreed.




I'm not sure that the good adaptation of the Sighs novel (which many believe is the weakest in the franchise) will wash away the taste left over from Endless Eight for many, but I think it does go some ways into mending fences.

I think that the hardcore base - i.e. most Anime Suki Haruhi-board regulars, and people with a passion for Haruhi that matches theirs - are back on board and forgiving, as long as Disappearance arrives in one fashion or another by December of 2010.

However... the casual fandom of this anime has been just about killed by Endless Eight. I think that a lot of casual fans never even came back to watch Sighs, unfortunately.


People will now think twice now about trusting Kadokawa though.

After BLR aired, I felt that Disappearance would arrive in the new slate of episodes. ...Never again am I going to let Kadokawa get my hopes up like that.

I'm a big believer in the old saying "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me".


I was under the impression that the hype surrounding Kyoto Animation only existed among Western viewers, instead of native Japanese watchers.

Well, sales figures would seem to suggest otherwise, unless Japanese watchers are quietly going about their DVD pick-ups, lol.

[Parappashi]

Wow, Sighs was awesome from start to finish, shame it's ended.

So, erm...is this the last episode? I'm just a little bit lost as to what's happening with Disappearance since a lot of people have been mentioning it. :heh:

[GMT]

It's time to roll up my sleeves and dive into Interview With a Vampire Sighs V, the last installment of Haruhi 2009.

This episode starts off where IV leaves off. Haruhi asks The Wicked Witch Yuki where to get a cat, and this leads her to a suspicious-looking band of cats, feeding on the remains of Yuki's last victim. Upon seeing a distinct lack of black cats, Haruhi picks out a calico cat, on the apparent theory that "it's got black on it, it'll be bloody well good enough!"

And thus, we meet the Ensemble Darkhorse for Sighs, Kyon's talking pet cat. Who, by way of introduction, proceeds to humiliate him in front of his friends in a debate on philosophy. Small wonder he leaves the cat, named Shamisen, to sit out in the rain at school the next day.

Feline fun aside, we get a glimpse at the hectic preparations for the Cultural Festival, including some gratuitous scenery/animation porn. Haruhi's reality-warping powers grow more and more obvious as Mikuru causes massive property damage with nuclear water artillery guns, and causes her to learn the Green Eyed Moeblob Jutsuu, which she uses to nearly take her revenge on Kyon for snapping Haruhi out of her depression in the previous episode. Haruhi's power also manifests itself in other ways, such as returning the Passenger Pigeon from extinction, changing the Earth's precession, suddenly teleporting the Solar System to the outskirts of the Orion Nebula, and (most embarrassing of all) bringing to light Haruhi's secret World of Warcraft addiction.

Of course, the unhinging of reality, and the unending tyranny of Stalin Haruhi, pushes the SOS-dan to its breaking point, and for the first time, we see that things aren't all sunshine and happiness as Kyon is told to not trust that lying, conniving scumbag Mikutski Asazumi, and finds himself somewhat lacking in the blood department only further confused when Count Nagato tries to explain it to him. Koizumi gains some depth in this episode as he reveals that the people who are interested in Anime Jesus Haruhi are not very nice people at all, complete with scenery porn of dark alleyways and pools of blood. Makes you wonder what Koizumi does when he's not kissing Haruhi's ass and serving as her psychic Midol.

So, with that comforting knowledge in hand, it is up to Kyon to save the world. Given his track record in Endless Eight The Arc Whose Name Must Not Be Spoken, you'd think we're all pretty much fucked. But, somehow Kyon convinces Haruhi to don the ruby-red slippers, click her heels together and chant "I wish I was home." After this is the epic all-night film editing session, which we don't see because Kyon suffered a severe case of amnesia after Haruhi kept beating him over the head with her megaphone. The Adventures of Mikuru Asahina comes out, and everything returns to normal. Or as normal as it gets in the Haruhi-verse.

Afterwards, we're treated to confirmation that, yes, Sighs was totally Kyon's fault. Way back, just after Melancholy, Kyon tried to tell Haruhi the truth about the SOS-dan . . . though if someone I knew were telling me stuff like that with the same screwy facial expressions Kyon used, let's just say that there's no way in hell I'd be finishing Kyon's "magical" hallucinogenic toad juice coffee for him.

Follow-up: We're treated to some luscious visuals here and it's backed by some actual character development as we learn that the SOS-dan is a Mexican standoff with poor Kyon caught in the middle. I find myself, again, caring what will happen to The Stockholm Syndrome Band and their genki frontwoman Sociopath Sue in the coming months. An incredible achievement after the snark-inducing TAWNMNBS. Well-played, KyoAni, well-played. A 9/10.

[guanin]

So, how much of the novels have been covered so far by the anime? If I am only an anime-viewer and is planning to jump to the novels, where should I start after watching all of the anime?

Oh and by the way, there's not much romance in this series isn't there?

[Ithekro]

All of books 1, 2, and 3, have been animated. Two-thirds of book 5, and two-fifths of book 6 have been animated.

Books 4, 7, 8, and 9 have not been animated at all, and book 10 is reportedly in the works...still.

Basically what you have seen is roughly half of the currently existing storylines.

[Heminga13]

I'm one of those people who thinks you should always start at the beginning of story for any given medium (books, shows, movies, whatever). So I'd say just start at novel 1 because there's always some stuff that isn't covered in adaptations, even if it's just extra narration.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Thanks, and that's the key for me too. If KyoAni simply put a honest effort into every episode that they did, and got away from the gimmickry, I have little doubt that they could, as you say, live up to a moderate measure of the hype and mythology surrounding them.
You made it sound like Endless Eight required no effort to make.

The only reason fans don''t like Endless Eight was because they are not suppose to. It's nothing to do with lack of effort. Gimmicks are easy; Endless Eight is no gimmick.

As I said before, EE is "anti"-fanservice. Something made for the purpose of annoying fans, and that it decreases sales compared to, say, a fanservicy show that uses panty shots and nipples to get more DVD movement.

Why have Anti-fanservice? The opposite reason to having fanservice. Fanservice is about adding stuff to help sell things, even if it affect the artistic merit of the show somewhat. While anti-fanservice is about adding artistic merit to the show, at the price of affecting sales of the DVD. It would be hypocritical of me to like fanservice yet disapprove anti-fanservice, they are two sides of the same coin.

[Maxtro]

However... the casual fandom of this anime has been just about killed by Endless Eight. I think that a lot of casual fans never even came back to watch Sighs, unfortunately.
Heh, I'd consider myself a casual fan of Haruhi. Endless Eight almost killed this series for me. I even didn't watch 2 or 3 episodes of that arc. This Sighs arc made the series watchable, not great. So far I consider season 1 to be leaps and bounds better than season 2.

As for the most recent episode, it was OK. I liked the cat and I cracked up when he was having the philosophical conversation with Kozumi. That was completely unexpected. The Mikuru battle scene was also great.

I would like to have seen more of the JRPG guys who were running around. This picture
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7595/snapshot201408.jpg
shows that some pretty crazy things happened at the school.

Now I'm off to watch episode 00 to see how everything turned out :p

[Dr. Casey]

However... the casual fandom of this anime has been just about killed by Endless Eight. I think that a lot of casual fans never even came back to watch Sighs, unfortunately.

Personally, I would find Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody the most offensive thing Kyoto Animation has done with the franchise (Presuming the three year wait was for symbolic reasons, anyway). For starters, the gimmick completely fails on any sort of symbolic level, unlike Endless Eight and Sighs. Kyon and Mikuru go back in time three years, then jump ahead to the present. Okay... so how does that relate to three years passing by between the two cours? I could understand if there was a three year timeskip in the series at this point, then there would be somewhat of a connection since our time would pass in sync with the story's (Not that it would be remotely worth the wait even if the symbolism did have merit), but as things stand there's no real meaningful connection.

Endless Eight, at the very least, contributes a significant amount to the narrative. It did make the arc more engrossing and immersive for me, and it does become easier to empathize with Yuki; enrichment of one of the main characters is no small gain. And there's Sighs' movie gimmick, of course, which is obviously the best of the three, since it's fun, effective, and completely without inconvenience.

I'd have been a little pissed if I was one of the fans that got jerked around for three years just over a symbolic gesture that completely falls flat, though, since it's a much longer wait and doesn't really have any literary value (Thankfully, I finished the original run of Haruhi during May, so my wait was three days rather than three years - I started watching Haruhi at first during December 2007, but got bored for some reason and quit).

[Heminga13]

I remember hearing a theory that the series starts in 2009. So this entire airing would match up with the year in the story, so they both 'start' at the same time. Also, this would be the first time the series is presented in true chronological order. For the 2006 airing we had the anachronic broadcast version and then the DVD order version if you go by the order the DVDs were released. The only mention of the true chronological order of the series was in the episode previews where Haruhi says the chronological order, which is immediately shot down by Kyon who gives the correct number according to the broadcast airing (except for episode 12).

[Triple_R]

You made it sound like Endless Eight required no effort to make.

The only reason fans don''t like Endless Eight was because they are not suppose to. It's nothing to do with lack of effort. Gimmicks are easy; Endless Eight is no gimmick.

As I said before, EE is "anti"-fanservice. Something made for the purpose of annoying fans, and that it decreases sales compared to, say, a fanservicy show that uses panty shots and nipples to get more DVD movement.

Why have Anti-fanservice? The opposite reason to having fanservice. Fanservice is about adding stuff to help sell things, even if it affect the artistic merit of the show somewhat. While anti-fanservice is about adding artistic merit to the show, at the price of affecting sales of the DVD. It would be hypocritical of me to like fanservice yet disapprove anti-fanservice, they are two sides of the same coin.

Vallen... no, it would not be hypocritical of you. Fanservice, and "Anti-Fanservice", as you describe them, appeal to two entirely different sorts of fans. One would expect fans of the one to dislike the other.

However, that's beside the point, since I simply don't think that there was that much thought put into Endless Eight. I think that you're completely off on why E8 happened, and are giving KyoAni way too much credit.

If your thinking was correct, one would expect it to be reflected through Nagato better than what it was. Contrary to popular belief, Nagato's depression growth seemed to ease off around part 5 or 6 of the 8 part arc, undermining any gradual thematic impact, and metacommentary strength, that could come from relating Nagato to the fans.


I think that what happened was...

1) "Hey, guys, the name of the story has "Eight" in it! We MUST do something with that!" - I.E. KyoAni just being anal retentive.

2) "Hey, guys, let's stretch out the material as much as humanly possible and milk this franchise for all she's worth! Ha ha!"


Honestly, I don't see EE has this bold creative venture as its defenders do. I frankly think that it's just a cheap gimmicky ploy to stretch out the material, combined with KyoAni being really anal retentive about numerology and the like...

Believe it or not, KyoAni is not infallible, and can make mistakes. Why people have such a hard time even considering such a thing is beyond me. It's like you've never seen a good company go a bit sour before.

Vince McMahon is a marketing genius, but his WWF/WWE has had its low points of really bad and sloppy creative management. KyoAni is no more immune to failures than Vince McMahon is.


Personally, I would find Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody the most offensive thing Kyoto Animation has done with the franchise (Presuming the three year wait was for symbolic reasons, anyway). For starters, the gimmick completely fails on any sort of symbolic level, unlike Endless Eight and Sighs. Kyon and Mikuru go back in time three years, then jump ahead to the present. Okay... so how does that relate to three years passing by between the two cours? I could understand if there was a three year timeskip in the series at this point, then there would be somewhat of a connection since our time would pass in sync with the story's (Not that it would be remotely worth the wait even if the symbolism did have merit), but as things stand there's no real meaningful connection.

I'm really hoping that KyoAni's numerology fixation isn't so severe that they actually put off Haruhi for three years purely on that basis. If so, KyoAni makes Shaft's eccentricities look sane in comparison.




Endless Eight, at the very least, contributes a significant amount to the narrative.

Not enough to warrant eight episodes.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I frankly think that it's just a cheap gimmicky ploy to stretch out the material
Expensive gimmicky ploy.

The difference matters.

What can I say, you think KyoAni screwed up for not entertaining you. I say they weren't trying to entertain you, so they didn't screw up. The fact that every blog commented on the "money" side of things shows how everyone sees it; a means of making more cash.

There are things other than money. KyoAni has been spending time and effort on things that gave them no benefit for ages, just because they can.

[rook_]

About how many more eps to the 2009 season will there be?

[Dr. Casey]

Not enough to warrant eight episodes.

Course not, but I never said otherwise. Just because it contributes something doesn't mean I liked the arc overall, or that it should have been done that way. I was simply comparing their respective gambits, in which case Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody's theoretical one is both more taxing and harder to understand (Though with the theory Heming heard about the series starting in 2009 that gimmick seems vaguely less pointless, although still exceedingly stupid).

And there should be four more, Rook. The Adventures of Mikuru Asashina 00, Live A Live (Concert episode), Day of Sagittarius (Computer chess game), and Someday in the Rain.

[Triple_R]

Expensive gimmicky ploy.

We'll see how expensive it is once the DVD sales come out. Kaioshin believes that E8 will have no significant effect on that. He may be right...

However, I give you credit for admitting it's a gimmicky ploy.




The difference matters.

What can I say,

What I'd like to hear you and some others say is "Yes, KyoAni is not infallible".

Seriously.

It actually creeps me out a bit just how completely unwilling many people are to even consider the possibility that KyoAni simply made a mistake... as though the concept itself is somehow unfathomable. I've been a part of a lot of fandoms, and this is the only one where I've seen people refuse to even consider that the entertainment provider can make a mistake.

I've seen diehard Trekkies, hardcore Star Wars fans, huge Spiderman fans, major RPG fans, lifelong pro wrestling fans, etc... , etc... all be open to less-than-flattering views of the entertainment provider. In fact, many of them will put forward those views themselves.

What makes anime in general, and KyoAni in particular, so different? That's what I'm still trying to figure out.


you think KyoAni screwed up for not entertaining you. I say they weren't trying to entertain you, so they didn't screw up.

KyoAni is in the entertainment business. Hence, if they really did deliberately try to bore the fans, that's an immediate screw-up.

It's no different than a plumber deliberately trying to mess up your pipes instead of fix them.


However, that's beside the point for me, as I don't hold to the artistic interpretation of why E8 happened.


The fact that every blog commented on the "money" side of things shows how everyone sees it; a means of making more cash.

There are things other than money. KyoAni has been spending time and effort on things that gave them no benefit for ages, just because they can.

Such as? Other than Munto, don't all of their works become financial successes?

[LusterFlare]

About how many more eps to the 2009 season will there be?

I believe there will be 4 more episodes: "The Adventures of Mikuru Asahina Episode 00," "Live Alive," "The Day of Sagittarius," and "Someday in the Rain," all of which were aired during the first season.

[rook_]

I believe there will be 4 more episodes: "The Adventures of Mikuru Asahina Episode 00," "Live Alive," "The Day of Sagittarius," and "Someday in the Rain," all of which were aired during the first season.

Kinda expected more due to the e8 trash, what about seasons after this? Not really sure where to find this information..

[Kaioshin Sama]

Sunrise Director Haruhi, and her acting team, was starting to wear thin on me... which is why I was pleased to see the main focus of this episode be on the dialogues between Kyon and the three not-so-amigos. ;)

I would equate her more with Uwe Boll or Ed Wood then with the likes of Yoshiyuki Tomino or Ryosuke Takahashi.

You made it sound like Endless Eight required no effort to make.

The only reason fans don''t like Endless Eight was because they are not suppose to. It's nothing to do with lack of effort. Gimmicks are easy; Endless Eight is no gimmick.

As I said before, EE is "anti"-fanservice. Something made for the purpose of annoying fans, and that it decreases sales compared to, say, a fanservicy show that uses panty shots and nipples to get more DVD movement.

Why have Anti-fanservice? The opposite reason to having fanservice. Fanservice is about adding stuff to help sell things, even if it affect the artistic merit of the show somewhat. While anti-fanservice is about adding artistic merit to the show, at the price of affecting sales of the DVD. It would be hypocritical of me to like fanservice yet disapprove anti-fanservice, they are two sides of the same coin.

I don't even buy for a second the idea that there was some sort of artistic merit behind this like what you call "anti-fanservice", mostly because it just makes no sense. So many people act like Kyoani is this great artistic visionary studio with the attitude of Andy Warhol that will change the face of anime for the better, but I think it comes down to them just liking to make money and appeal to moe fans. Moe being what they use to sell their shows and associated merchandise. I've said before that I think they have little to no ambition beyond the basic profit motive, and until I see something that leads me to think otherwise I'm going to have to stick to that position.

What I'd like to hear you and some others say is "Yes, KyoAni is not infallible".

Seriously.

It actually creeps me out a bit just how completely unwilling many people are to even consider the possibility that KyoAni simply made a mistake... as though the concept itself is somehow unfathomable. I've been a part of a lot of fandoms, and this is the only one where I've seen people refuse to even consider that the entertainment provider can make a mistake.

I've seen diehard Trekkies, hardcore Star Wars fans, huge Spiderman fans, major RPG fans, lifelong pro wrestling fans, etc... , etc... all be open to less-than-flattering views of the entertainment provider. In fact, many of them will put forward those views themselves.

*taps fingers on desk*......yup...... (-_-)

[Ithekro]

Kinda expected more due to the e8 trash, what about seasons after this? Not really sure where to find this information..


No word on any more after the four 2006 episodes air. The time slots are slated for Kiddy Grade 2 after that, so after October 8th or so, unless KyoAni says something...we don't know when any new episodes will air.

Though we do know they have the material to adapt...enough for roughly double what they have now. And it all takes place after "Someday in the Rain"

[OkamiNoKaze]

That's an insult to haruhi comparing her to Uwe Boll, she directs circles around him, It was probably one of his movies that inspired her.

[Mecha_Trueno]

They give one clue for the eagle-eyed that this scene takes place before the rest of Sighs, and before BLR, even.

No stolen bamboo branch with tanzaku on it.Also the fact that Kyon and Haruhi are wearing the exact same clothes as they did at the end of Melanchol VI (if you assume that anime characters never wear the same outfit twice:heh:).
If you're really bothered to, go watch the last scene Melancholy VI again and compare it with the end of this episode, you'll notice its the exact same people and cars that go pass.


On a sidenote, the part where Nagato is vampire biting Mikuru-chan, it makes me wonder if Kyoani just read that on a few forums and thought "hey that's a good-ass idea, lets use it:D"

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I don't even buy for a second the idea that there was some sort of artistic merit behind this like what you call "anti-fanservice", mostly because it just makes no sense. So many people act like Kyoani is this great artistic visionary studio with the attitude of Andy Warhol that will change the face of anime for the better, but I think it comes down to them just liking to make money and appeal to moe fans. Moe being what they use to sell their shows and associated merchandise. I've said before that I think they have little to no ambition beyond the basic profit motive, and until I see something that leads me to think otherwise I'm going to have to stick to that position.
The reason it "makes no sense" to you is because you still believe KyoAni is about "moe and make money", when Endless Eight isn't like that. So since EE isn't about moe or making money, doesn't that make your views incorrect?

[Jenni]

It actually creeps me out a bit just how completely unwilling many people are to even consider the possibility that KyoAni simply made a mistake... as though the concept itself is somehow unfathomable. I've been a part of a lot of fandoms, and this is the only one where I've seen people refuse to even consider that the entertainment provider can make a mistake.

I've seen diehard Trekkies, hardcore Star Wars fans, huge Spiderman fans, major RPG fans, lifelong pro wrestling fans, etc... , etc... all be open to less-than-flattering views of the entertainment provider. In fact, many of them will put forward those views themselves.

What makes anime in general, and KyoAni in particular, so different? That's what I'm still trying to figure out.

While I agree with the general sentiment, I've seen diehard Star Wars and Star Trek apologists who attempt to offer defenses of the weakest aspect of their franchises (things like Jar-Jar and Enterprise). The do-no-wrong attitude is not exclusive to Kyoani fans, but it certainly seems to be a bit more prevalent among them.

[Child_of_Sierra]

What I'd like to hear you and some others say is "Yes, KyoAni is not infallible".

Seriously.

It actually creeps me out a bit just how completely unwilling many people are to even consider the possibility that KyoAni simply made a mistake... as though the concept itself is somehow unfathomable. I've been a part of a lot of fandoms, and this is the only one where I've seen people refuse to even consider that the entertainment provider can make a mistake.

I've seen diehard Trekkies, hardcore Star Wars fans, huge Spiderman fans, major RPG fans, lifelong pro wrestling fans, etc... , etc... all be open to less-than-flattering views of the entertainment provider. In fact, many of them will put forward those views themselves.

What makes anime in general, and KyoAni in particular, so different? That's what I'm still trying to figure out.



The problem with your plea is that it centers on the assumption that E8 is a "mistake" when considered from all points of view.

Given how large the fanbase for the show it is entirely possible that a portion (albiet small) of the audience would not have a problem with this gimmick and see it in a positive light. Why would they blame a studio for a slight they never saw?

Going further, just because they happen to be fans of Haruhi (that happen to made by KyoAni) doesn't mean that all fans of Haruhi view the creators as infallible. There are other posts in this subforum that decry E8 and they had had no reservation to post their discontent. What you have is a mixed fanbase with as many interpretations and tolerances that one would expect from those other fandoms you cited.

[Apostle_Kyon]

Koizumi's rambling about other organizationas and Tsuruya's lurking in the shadow got me thinking that she is maybe a part of one.


IMO, there is nothing to atone for.
Endless Eight is like Spaghetti westerns back in the day - they were considered to be retarded but now they are classics of Cinematography.

Also
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1610/grab34805.jpg
I remember someone saying people will hate Haruhi after Sighs but that arc made me fell for her all over again :S

Tsuruya..


http://haruhi.wikia.com/wiki/Tsuruya

[Mecha_Trueno]

And now I just imagined Mori dressed as ninja entering in the clubroom by the window and working in the computer without waking Kyon up (he was sleeping over the keyboard).Speaking of Mori-san in different outfits, I'm actually rather excited about seeing vol.7 animated.
Because...we get to see her dressed as an OL (office lady).:naughty:

[EGFontanilla]

So this was the last episode for this season? What about the disappearance? Hmm ...

Anyways, does anyone wanna make an updated chronological order now that the season is over? I feel like watching the series again, it'll at least keep me alive before September ends, god I hate school.

[SamKajam]

Wow... I gotta say that is episode was the best one in the series for me. For one, the cat was awesome :D, and more importantly, it allowed us to peek into the psyche of the 3 people who are using kyon to control haruhi, which really makes this anime stand out. Finally, the scene with yuki was trippy as hell!

Originally, I assumed that itsuki was a reliable guy, including being correct in his explanations. I also assumed that mikuru was only coincidentally kyon's dream girl. But after this episode, it suddenly became clear that itsuki, mikuru, and yuki are all just looking out for themselves and their own goals. And while they befriend kyon, in reality, all three of them are mostly just using him using their own methods.

- Itsuki is "friendly", helpful, and provides explanations to kyon, thus trying to earn his trust. I also have a theory that the agency specifically sent in a homosexual who can try "charming" kyon (on the off chance that kyon's got the gay in him). Even if you won't believe that isuki's gay, then you have to at least admit that sometimes when he speaks to kyon, he's seems to be trying to, uh... seduce :uhoh: him.

- Mikuru also seems like she was specifically chosen to attract kyon. And though she may seem to genuinely like kyon, it could really just all be an act. For example, when kyon's lust for mikuru started to shift towards feelings for haruhi, mikuru's older self came back in time to make sure that kyon liked mikuru more (hoping that kyon would do as mikuru says rather than haruhi, at some point in the future).

- Nagato over the series has come off as "an alien who is only here to observe, and thus cares not for humanity, but somehow has developed sense of caring for kyon". But now it seems as though, no, she really doesn't give a cr** about kyon. If you observe her actions, you'll realize that she is simply doing whatever is needed to obtain her goals (whatever they might be). The "humanity" that we see in her is simply based on kyon's observations. It seems to me that yuki has won kyon's trust without even trying or even realizing it.:rolleyes:

Offf course, these are all just theories and I'm most likely wrong, but I thought they were interesting, so I'm posting them.

Anyway, crackpot theory time!

- mikuru's "friend" (LOL-FAN TAN... or something like that) is actually mikuru's co-worker. Thus explaining why she's so helpful at times (lending house). As well as why she was willing to drug (get drunk) mikuru, and throw her into a lake, when mikuru was clearly in distress. She also seems to be listening (and smiling?) in the background while mikuru was talking to kyon in this episode.

I was also rewatching episode 00 again and noticed some things.

- haruhi had mikuru run down the same street 3 times LOL most likely without a break in between.

- when mikuru shoots at yuki from her guns, bb's actually come out, but yuki just blocks them with her wand.

- an old man walks reaaallly slowly in the background during one of the ads hahahah.

- itsuki acts in this movie just like how an actor would in a play, which is something he had probably been practicing for (his class play).

- LOL-FAN TAN can't control her laughter at mikuru, not as a friend thinking how ridiculous this footage is, but as a co-working thinking how ridiculous this entire movie making situation is for mikuru (assuming my theory of her being a co-worker is true, that is).

Finally, my favorite theory that I noticed: In haruhi's movie, itsuki actually represents kyon, yuki represents haruhi, and mikuru plays... well, mikuru.

when itsuki in the movie is about to kiss mikuru, yuki suddenly pops in and says:

"You should not choose her.
Your power will be validated after becoming one with mine.
All I can say now is that you have two choices before you.
You can join me in advancing this universe towards its true form or join with her and pluck out the possibilities of the future."

After being confronted to expalin what she means, yuki replies:

"The time for that will come in the near future.
However, it is certain that the time is not now.
We have a custom of considering a lack of information a critical flaw.
The potential stages will be unable to proceed in a clear fashion."

After mikuru proclaims that itsuki will choose her, yuki replies:

"Unfortunately, I have no intention of respecting his personal wishes.
I shall take his power."

:eyespin: If my theory that yuki plays haruhi is correct, then this shows that haruhi subconsciously knows what her role in this world is, as well as what her ultimate goal is. It also seems to show that kyon has some sort of power, and that haruhi subconsciously knows about it and wants it.

Lol, seems like everyone is using kyon in this series, eh?

Anyway, the movie also digs not so deep into her conscious feelings for kyon, and jealousy towards mikuru. This can be seen when the movie suddenly changes genres into a love drama between the three, coinciding with when she started becoming jealous while filming.

Gahh lots of text here, sorry bout that. But these are observations that I've made. I've left out other theories which are not mine, as to not recycle the same old stuff. That said, if these observations have all ready been made, then my bad.

[Airman8]

How does one atone for Endless Eight? Make the worst novel epic. Done and done.

so well said. But you know, it's not just Sighs that they made epic. If you think of the way they developed this whole story up until now, it's quite amazing. They've gone as far as volume 6 and presented it all in a way that creates a narrative of its own.

Triple R said to me previously that K and K are expert trolls, and politicians. Well, I do agree with that. But seeing this episode unfold the way it did, I must add that underneath all this they are great story tellers.

Whoever is doing this is really thinking about the narrative. They've managed to combine the slice-of-life and the sci-fi intrigue so well. Ending with the prologue is another splash of creativity that makes me think whatever budgeting constraints and corporate considerations need to be made, they're taking the meaning of this series to heart. Maybe I'm being too mushy here, but considering we're in an economic crisis I think they've done a hell of a job recreating this series after three years. I really do think there's a level of care going into this that surpasses many other stories.

On that note, the future is uncertain. They've done so well weaving this narrative that they could stop it here and leave the fans with so many unanswered questions. Or, they could keep going, having set up intrigues and inter-character conflicts left unexplored for now.

I don't know how it will go, but if this is where it ends I must encourage everyone to read the novels. The story really delivers. I spent the summer reading it (on the beach I might add!) and enjoyed it all.

[Triple_R]

The reason it "makes no sense" to you is because you still believe KyoAni is about "moe and make money", when Endless Eight isn't like that. So since EE isn't about moe or making money, doesn't that make your views incorrect?

...EE isn't about moe? Every episode features Haruhi, Mikuru, and Yuki in bathing suits, and in colorful cute yukatas.

The moe aspect is about the only aspect that I actually liked in each and every EE iteration. :heh:


While I agree with the general sentiment, I've seen diehard Star Wars and Star Trek apologists who attempt to offer defenses of the weakest aspect of their franchises (things like Jar-Jar and Enterprise). The do-no-wrong attitude is not exclusive to Kyoani fans, but it certainly seems to be a bit more prevalent among them.

Ok, in fairness, what you're writing here may be closer to the truth.


The problem with your plea is that it centers on the assumption that E8 is a "mistake" when considered from all points of view.

I'm not looking for people to call the eight-episode handling of E8, in particular, a mistake.

I'm just looking for people to admit that KyoAni is not infallible. That's it. Nothing else. I'm not going read a criticism of E8 into that. You can believe that E8 was not a mistake, but that KoyAni is fallible.

... Frankly, if somebody can't admit that KyoAni is fallible, then that obviously throws his or her entire defense of KyoAni on any matter into question. Because such a lack of an admittance shows that he or she will try to rationalize anything that KyoAni does.

[ac195]

Which part of "when you only saw the animes - and when you wish to keep it that way" escaped you ?

Just giving my opinion on the matter. I have no idea why you'd want to deprive yourself of a decent light read. It really is sad that people like you ignore the source materials which opens up a new appreciation for the series and its characters.

It's so sad that you just mention the words "read" or "book" and people run for the hills...

[EGFontanilla]

So, will there even be a season 2?

It'd be really funny if the name "The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya" had nothing to do with the actual novel, and that it just implies the end of the anime series. x)

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

...EE isn't about moe? Every episode features Haruhi, Mikuru, and Yuki in bathing suits, and in colorful cute yukatas.

The moe aspect is about the only aspect that I actually liked in each and every EE iteration. :heh:

Yukatas and Swimsuits are NOT moe. They are fanservice. Cowering Mikuru? Yes, that's moe. Moe is when you obtained a mysterious nurture instict about a character. Being cute or sexy have nothing to do with it. If swimsuits are moe, then nearly EVERYTHING is moe these days.

I'm not looking for people to call the eight-episode handling of E8, in particular, a mistake.

I'm just looking for people to admit that KyoAni is not infallible. That's it. Nothing else. I'm not going read a criticism of E8 into that. You can believe that E8 was not a mistake, but that KoyAni is fallible.
I never said KyoAni is infallible. EVER. But since you are claiming I am a "fanboy" who can't see anything wrong, and since I was only talking about Endless Eight, what ELSE could you be criticizing?

If I believe KyoAni is infallible, I would have claimed everyone should love Endless Eight. I am not. I am saying just because Endless Eight is not designed to please fans, doesn't make it a failure. It did what it was designed to do, to the detriment of the DVD sales. The fact that those who oppose Episode Eight simultaneously claimed EE was created to improve DVD sales, yet also claim the DVD sales would drop, showed how paradoxical the comments are.

A perfect KyoAni would have made an Endless Eight everyone would be happy with. But they are only human, so they made EE the way THEY are happy with, and no one else.

[Airman8]

I still think they'll keep going, but that's because I want to think that way. I like this series. But from a business point of view, why not. They've put effort into this. People love it. It's a good call!

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

I'm not looking for people to call the eight-episode handling of E8, in particular, a mistake.

Oh?

It actually creeps me out a bit just how completely unwilling many people are to even consider the possibility that KyoAni simply made a mistake

Seems you've contradicted yourself. :heh:

[Triple_R]

SamKajam -

I think that you're probably right about one or more of Itsuki, Mikuru, and Yuki, but I doubt that you're right about all three. There's a certain genuineness to Yuki's acts that resonate with me. She did actually save Kyon's life at least twice, in the anime, now. That has to count for something meaningful, imo.

However, I agree that both Itsuki and Mikuru look a bit shadier in this episode to me than they usually do; Mikuru especially.

I don't buy Haruhi as the sort of person who would use her powers to force somebody to love her. If so, one would expect her powers to have played out in such a fashion already.



Yukatas and Swimsuits are NOT moe. They are fanservice.

I really could dispute that, as the use of the term 'moe' isn't quite as strict as I think that you hold it to be. I've frequently seen other anime fans describe moe as "more kawaii than kawaii" (i.e. more cute than cute; cuteness to the extreme).

However... I'm not going to dispute it, because calling it fanservice is even more interesting than calling it moe. If it's fanservice, then that means that a significant part of each and every E8 iteration is fanservice. Kind of flies right in the face of the "E8 is anti-fanservice" idea, don't you think?

One theory that I continue to have concerning E8 is that KyoAni simply likes doing cutsey slice-of-life stuff, and E8 is as cutsey slice-of-life as Haruhi ever gets, so...


I never said KyoAni is infallible. EVER. But since you are claiming I am a "fanboy" who can't see anything wrong, and since I was only talking about Endless Eight, what ELSE could you be criticizing?

If I believe KyoAni is infallible, I would have claimed everyone should love Endless Eight. I am not. I am saying just because Endless Eight is not designed to please fans, doesn't make it a failure.

Why are you presenting this theory - and that's all it is, a theory - as though it was indisputable fact?

Anyway... KyoAni is in the entertainment business. Them deliberately trying to bore their fans, as you appear to argue, is an automatic failure.


It did what it was designed to do, to the detriment of the DVD sales.

You say this before we even know what the DVD sales will be like.

Still, thanks for basically saying that KyoAni is fallible. I don't think that you're a "fanboy", Vallen... which is precisely why I was befuddled by your seeming refusal to even consider that they may have made a mistake here.


The fact that those who oppose Episode Eight simultaneously claimed EE was created to improve DVD sales, yet also claim the DVD sales would drop, showed how paradoxical the comments are.

... I don't recall seeing anybody who opposes E8 saying that it was created to improve DVD sales. The only person I've seen even come close to making such an argument is Relentlessflame, and he's been a pretty strong E8 defender, imo.

Kaioshin has stated that E8 won't hurt DVD sales, but I don't think that he's ever said that they'll actually improve DVD sales. I'm open to be corrected by him on the matter, though.


Oh?



Seems you've contradicted yourself. :heh:

No, I never. You can consider that E8 made a mistake with out arriving at that conclusion. It's two different things, Kogetsu. Some people aren't even considering the possibility that E8 may have been a mistake.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

No, I never. You can consider that E8 made a mistake with out arriving at that conclusion. It's two different things, Kogetsu. Some people aren't even considering the possibility that E8 may have been a mistake.

You've caused a bit of a problem with this response.

(Forgive my altering your quote, but I believe it is required for a demonstration.)

You can consider that E8 wasn't a mistake with out arriving at that conclusion. It's two different things. Some people aren't even considering the possibility that E8 may not have been a mistake.

Do you see the problem? Both sides are guilty of refusing to acknowledge the possibility their views are wrong, not just the supporters of the episodes. This is not exclusive to just one side, or even this particular discussion.

[Triple_R]

You've caused a bit of a problem with this response.

(Forgive my altering your quote, but I believe it is required for a demonstration.)



Do you see the problem? Both sides are guilty of refusing to acknowledge the possibility their views are wrong, not just the supporters of the episodes. This is not exclusive to just one side, or even this particular discussion.

Ok... it's possible that KyoAni's goal with E8 was an artistic one, and that the main thrust behind it was getting fans to identify with Yuki Nagato more... and that they tried to make it deliberately boring in order to achieve that goal. The theory doesn't fit perfectly, imo, but it is possible, I'll admit.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

However... I'm not going to dispute it, because calling it fanservice is even more interesting than calling it moe. If it's fanservice, then that means that a significant part of each and every E8 iteration is fanservice. Kind of flies right in the face of the "E8 is anti-fanservice" idea, don't you think?
You can have fanservice and anti-fanservice in the same show, at the same time. They are not matter/anti-matter; they can co-exist. The swim suits are fanservice, the repeated plot is anti-fanservice.

Still, thanks for basically saying that KyoAni is fallible. I don't think that you're a "fanboy", Vallen... which is precisely why I was befuddled by your seeming refusal to even consider that they may have made a mistake here.
I have considered. And decided that it takes too much effort to be a mistake. It is not easy to make Endless Eight, there is pressure from above all the time to make "safe" shows, shows that are the same as every other show. To be able to make a show like Endless Eight is nearly a miracle in itself.

And why have you refused to even consider they might NOT have made a mistake? This goes both ways.

Keep in mind, anime is a low paying industry. People go into anime the same reason they go into making video games; because they love it. If the crew wanted money, and only money, they wouldn't be in the business. I find it baffling that so many in this very thread refused to believe there is a SHRED of artistic integrity in Kyoto Animation, as if they are all blood sucking ghouls or something.

At no time have I claimed you need to like EE. Neither do I think you should buy the DVDs if you don't want to. Hell, KyoAni have numbered the DVD boxes in such a way that you don't need to buy Endless Eight to fill the gaps. But I reject the idea that Endless Eight could have existed without someone in the team knowing this isn't going to be profitable, it's just that they decided to follow through anyway because that's what they wanted.

[Triple_R]

You can have fanservice and anti-fanservice in the same show, at the same time. They are not matter/anti-matter; they can co-exist. The swim suits are fanservice, the repeated plot is anti-fanservice.

Yes, but having one undermines the effect of having the other. For example, my boredom level with E8 would have been significantly higher if not for the fanservice/moe. If the goal of E8 was to bore the fans, then throwing in eye-catching fanservice seems, to me, to undermine that goal.


I have considered. And decided that it takes too much effort to be a mistake.

... Perhaps we're defining 'mistake' differently.

I'm not saying 'mistake' in the sense of "This is what we set out to do, and we failed to do it because we made a mistake along the way".

I'm saying 'mistake' in the sense of "This is what we set out to do, and we were wrong to choose to do that. That choice was a mistake"

I'm inclined to think that whatever goal was behind E8 was ultimately achieved - if the motivation was simply to stretch out the material and play around with numerology, then it achieved its goal. If your theory is correct, then E8 achieved its goal.

The question, for me, is if such a goal was a mistake to have in the first place.


At the end of the day, I simply believe that an entertainment company should seek to provide good, quality entertainment to its fans on a consistent basis. If it can do this while also being artistic... great. But it shouldn't be artistic or gimmicky or engage in ploys if it can't do so while also holding some basic entertainment value, imo.

Haruhi 2006's out-of-chronological-order episode presentation is, for me, a good example of being artistic with out detracting from basic entertainment value. In fact, you could even argue that it added to basic entertainment value. So, I'm very cool with what Haruhi 2006 did here.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

If it can do this while also being artistic... great. But it shouldn't be artistic or gimmicky or engage in ploys if it can't do so while also pleasing the fans.
Pleasing Fans?

For what? Money?

As I mentioned before, Anime doesn't pay very well. And as an adaptation studio, Kyoto gets less of the cut than usual.

Certainly you are allowed to believe your rights to be entertained is more important. Go ahead and vote with your wallet. However, saying it's a "mistake" because you think the studio should cater to your needs above their own is interesting. Because I have heard many opposite views on other shows, with claims that the desire to follow fan demands ending up "ruining' certain shows. Whether the opinion is right or wrong isn't the issue; the point is that you viewing "mistake" as "you are not pleased" is not universal.

Fundamentally, there are two goal for an anime studio; to make money off you, and to have job satisfaction. And it is the studio's own decision on how much of each they will achieve. What makes them happy might not make you happy. And they are within their right to make themselves happy if they so wish.
Would they REALLY not recycle animation in any episode of EE, if they aren't loving every minute of it?

[Triple_R]

Pleasing Fans?

I edited that afterwards (and before you made your reply, if you check the time stamps), since it didn't quite convey the idea that I was trying to get at. I edited it to "provide good, quality entertainment".

Simply trying to please the fans can, of course, result in a lowest common denominator approach, which I wouldn't endorse either. Also, sometimes fans' demands can be short-sighted; getting in the way of telling a new compelling story.


My point is that it's great to be artistic, but that if you can't be artistic while also being entertaining, you're not going to get your artistry across to many people in a way that they'll appreciate. This is why, in my view, the best way to be artistic is to try to couch the artistry within content that is good entertainment to begin with (the artistry making it good, quality entertainment).

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Would they REALLY not recycle animation in any episode of EE, if they aren't loving every minute of it?

Technically they did recycle animation, but it was within the same episode. But this discussion has no place here. :heh:

[EGFontanilla]

Despite how awesomely awesome this episode was, I don't think I'll be able to see Mikuru and Yuki in the same innocent light ever again. Damn, it'll be hard to enjoy Haruhi-chan now. >_<

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

... You thought Haruhi-chan's Nagato was innocent? She tortured Achakura on a regular basis. :heh:

[EGFontanilla]

... You thought Haruhi-chan's Nagato was innocent? She tortured Achakura on a regular basis. :heh:

Heheheheh. :D

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Not to mention... um... the h-game obsession. :heh:

But again, not really the place to discuss this. :p

[Tornadium]

SamKajam -

I think that you're probably right about one or more of Itsuki, Mikuru, and Yuki, but I doubt that you're right about all three. There's a certain genuineness to Yuki's acts that resonate with me. She did actually save Kyon's life at least twice, in the anime, now. That has to count for something meaningful, imo.

However, I agree that both Itsuki and Mikuru look a bit shadier in this episode to me than they usually do; Mikuru especially.

I don't buy Haruhi as the sort of person who would use her powers to force somebody to love her. If so, one would expect her powers to have played out in such a fashion already.



Two things here

1. On the point of Yuki's actions..I think there is somewhat of a mix between the two. There is some genuineness in her actions but at least to a certain degree she is being controlled (Up to Disapperance, maybe a little less afterwards).

2. I Highly doubt Haruhi would use her powers so i agree here. However she uses her powers indirectly in the pursuit of getting Kyon to love her (I think at least). There are at least two occasions which stick out in my mind. The first being sighs and the second being Melancholy.

However there are other occasions where she just does human things to get him to like her too...So you could argue Haruhi has both a very human side and her subconsciouss supernatural side when attempting to deal with problems.


Oh and am i the only one whose heart melted when Haruhi looked back at Kyon in the prologue?

[Roger Rambo]

So, does anybody think we'll have a new episode next Thursday, or will this be all the Haruhi we'll be getting for the time being?

[Tornadium]

So, does anybody think we'll have a new episode next Thursday, or will this be all the Haruhi we'll be getting for the time being?

It Depends,

There are definately hints at somthing coming after this but nothing is concrete.

1. I highly doubt even Kyonai would do EE and not have a backup plan afterwards. You could argue it's a marketing ploy to boost Haruhi's infamy before pulling their best hand (Disappearance).

2. This rerun put everything in chronological order and filled in all the blanks. Only direction now is forward.

3. Book 10 was recently announced in The Sneaker (Apparantly) so that could be planned as well.

[Akka]

Just giving my opinion on the matter. I have no idea why you'd want to deprive yourself of a decent light read. It really is sad that people like you ignore the source materials which opens up a new appreciation for the series and its characters.
Well, two points :

1) The fact that this is an anime episode thread, should automatically bar anyone from making spoilers from the novel. It's systematically written in the first post of each one of these threads. People should be able to come here and talk about the content of the anime without unsensitive people spoiling the story for them.

2) I don't want to read the novels because I want to follow the story through the anime. I always stick to the first media I discovered a story with until the end of the story.
And I usually prefer the anime media rather than the light novel/manga media anyway. It's called "personnal preference".
It's so sad that you just mention the words "read" or "book" and people run for the hills...
You should refrain from making judgements when you don't know anything about people.
It's not because I don't want to read a light novel when I've started a story with an anime, that it means I run away from a good read. I have enough books at home that a whole wall-shelf is filled to the brink with them, so I'm pretty sure that my fear from the hidden word isn't the reason.
I have considered. And decided that it takes too much effort to be a mistake. It is not easy to make Endless Eight, there is pressure from above all the time to make "safe" shows, shows that are the same as every other show. To be able to make a show like Endless Eight is nearly a miracle in itself.
When saying that E8 was a mistake, I think it's not really "they didn't manage to do what they aimed for", but "they aimed for something they shouldn't have".
Or, to be even more precise, "they aimed for something but made a mistake in how they have done it".

E8 was art, I don't doubt about it : like you say, it was far too expensive and involved far too much work to be simply a regular blunder.
But it was pointlessly artsy and wasted work. They may have tried to do something "special", but the catch is, it's not because it's "special" that it's "good". It was not good, however "special" it was.

[KeroKai]

This was a good episode. I really liked all the subtle Haruhi x Kyon developments. :)

Figured that the movie being completed was representive of haruhi's faith in Kyon's abilities to do create good editing. That and the sudden twirl then re-twirl at the end of the episode. Anything else I missed?

[Roger Rambo]

How people regard E8 in the long run depends on whether or not Kyoani is making more episodes for this run.

Looking back on E8 with nostalgia is gonna be hard when people realize it cut the season by more than half.

[Teh_Ping]

^Ya, if they had more content that they would cover after sighs, the reaction may not be that bad. Especially with all the rumors that was going on, and the 'hints'

Okay, I would have to admit, sighs wasnt exactly an exciting chapter. But it did give some tidbits here and there. Though I guess all of us are expecting more.

O, and the return of the facepalm...

[Jintor]

Kyon having a philosophical discourse with an unexpected partner. Hilarious. He can really maintain that poker face (or he's just learnt to adapt to unexpected situations quickly).

Man, they really need to redo all these stupid scenes with hair over the eyes. The animation method by which they're doing it absolutely disturbs me.

Ah, Itsumo no Fuukei. Ah, the perfect ending.

I'm still giggling.

[worldruined]

Originally, I assumed that itsuki was a reliable guy, including being correct in his explanations. I also assumed that mikuru was only coincidentally kyon's dream girl. But after this episode, it suddenly became clear that itsuki, mikuru, and yuki are all just looking out for themselves and their own goals. And while they befriend kyon, in reality, all three of them are mostly just using him using their own methods.

- Itsuki is "friendly", helpful, and provides explanations to kyon, thus trying to earn his trust. I also have a theory that the agency specifically sent in a homosexual who can try "charming" kyon (on the off chance that kyon's got the gay in him). Even if you won't believe that isuki's gay, then you have to at least admit that sometimes when he speaks to kyon, he's seems to be trying to, uh... seduce :uhoh: him.
Except that it seems to be either the Organization's agenda or Koizumi's personal goal to play matchmaker and get Haruhi and Kyon together. Note his "Adam and Eve" reference at the end of Melancholy, constant hints that if Haruhi's upset, Kyon should use "that" again (where "that" obviously means "just kiss her, dammit!"), the "I love you" bit from Endless Eight, so on and so forth. If the Organization chose to send Koizumi because of sexual orientation, it would probably not be in order to "seduce" Kyon, but to make Koizumi as harmless as possible in regards to Haruhi -- that is, make sure that he is not Kyon's competition.

Personally, I think Kyon could do with a little healthy rivalry. :meh:

And anyway, if Koizumi is trying to win Kyon's trust, there are much better ways to go about it. Dramatic flairs and roundabout philosophical theories ending with a "just joking!" don't really help his cause much, since they usually just serve to tick Kyon off.

[Jintor]

Easily one of my favourite Haruhi episodes in terms of overall tone (coming second only to Live Alive and Someday in the Rain).

[bladeofdarkness]

all and all the ep was really good
especially loved shamisen, the water guns, and haruhi humming the "ride of the valkiyries" for no reason :heh:
and teh animation was excellent, probably the best in the arc

but overall i have to say that this season was a major disapointment all and all
i might get into more details once there is an overall thread, but in total this feels less like a second season and more like a "something to hold you over until we make the REAL second season"

[Triple_R]

When saying that E8 was a mistake, I think it's not really "they didn't manage to do what they aimed for", but "they aimed for something they shouldn't have".
Or, to be even more precise, "they aimed for something but made a mistake in how they have done it".

E8 was art, I don't doubt about it : like you say, it was far too expensive and involved far too much work to be simply a regular blunder.
But it was pointlessly artsy and wasted work. They may have tried to do something "special", but the catch is, it's not because it's "special" that it's "good". It was not good, however "special" it was.

Very well stated. That's pretty much my view on E8 as well.


How people regard E8 in the long run depends on whether or not Kyoani is making more episodes for this run.

Looking back on E8 with nostalgia is gonna be hard when people realize it cut the season by more than half.

Agreed. That will be the main determining factor.


Just finished writing up my Blog review for this episode!

Here it is: http://assessingtheanime.blogspot.com/2009/09/haruhi-2008-episode-14-finale-review.html


Hope people enjoy it! Don't worry, it's almost entirely positive. :) I got most of my lingering E8 hate out with my venting on this thread. :heh: :D

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

When saying that E8 was a mistake, I think it's not really "they didn't manage to do what they aimed for", but "they aimed for something they shouldn't have".
Or, to be even more precise, "they aimed for something but made a mistake in how they have done it".

I am sorry to say that I couldn't interpret your point as anything but "The customer is always right".
The reason you think KyoAni "shouldn't" have made Endless Eight, is that you are not happy about it. The entire view centered on the point that KyoAni should placed your desires above theirs.

Which, as I kept saying, is not at all wrong. You are free to hate Endless Eight as much as you like, and it is certainly justifiable.

But there is a difference between not getting what you want, and claiming KyoAni had "made a mistake".

Should or shouldn't have KyoAni made Endless Eight? I believe that is arguable. From your view, it shouldn't be made if it is not a marketable product. From my view, it should be made as long as the studio wished to and the sponsors are prepared to absorb the losses.

I guess I am old-fashioned; I want the studios and original authors to enjoy making the anime. That they should make what their hearts told them to make. To put it another way, all the things we love about Haruhi, the minor details, the faithfulness, the creation of faces and names of everyone in Haruhi's class, the participation of the author; all this are only possible because they WANT to do it.

Because of this, I can't say it is better if Endless Eight didn't get created. For all we know, this might sap the morale of the entire studio, and they might stop caring about Haruhi all together.

Endless Eight existed because KyoAni cared about what they are doing. They decided to do something crazy, because doing crazy things is what got them this far to begin with. A "normal" Haruhi production crew could not have created the Haruhi we know and love. I don't want to sacrifice that just to cut out Endless Eight. They deserve to have some fun too.

[Triple_R]

I am sorry to say that I couldn't interpret your point as anything but "The customer is always right".
The reason you think KyoAni "shouldn't" have made Endless Eight, is that you are not happy about it. The entire view centered on the point that KyoAni should placed your desires above theirs.

Which, as I kept saying, is not at all wrong. You are free to hate Endless Eight as much as you like, and it is certainly justifiable.

But there is a difference between not getting what you want, and claiming KyoAni had "made a mistake".

Should or shouldn't have KyoAni made Endless Eight? I believe that is arguable. From your view, it shouldn't be made if it is not a marketable product. From my view, it should be made as long as the studio wished to and the sponsors are prepared to absorb the losses.

I guess I am old-fashioned; I want the studios and original authors to enjoy making the anime. That they should make what their hearts told them to make. To put it another way, all the things we love about Haruhi, the minor details, the faithfulness, the creation of faces and names of everyone in Haruhi's class, the participation of the author; all this are only possible because they WANT to do it.

Because of this, I can't say it is better if Endless Eight didn't get created. For all we know, this might sap the morale of the entire studio, and they might stop caring about Haruhi all together.

Endless Eight existed because KyoAni cared about what they are doing. They decided to do something crazy, because doing crazy things is what got them this far to begin with. A "normal" Haruhi production crew could not have created the Haruhi we know and love. I don't want to sacrifice that just to cut out Endless Eight. They deserve to have some fun too.

If I ever need a lawyer to defend me in court and make me sound good, I really want to hire you. ;) Please take that as a compliment; it takes real skill to make the almost indefensible sound so wonderful and flowery like that.


I actually would say that the "the customer is always right" view is the old-fashioned view. This is the view that businesses have been taking for dozens, if not hundreds, of years. Most of the great businesses achieve great success through utilizing such an approach, at least up to a certain reasonable extent.


Of course I want animators of my favorite animes to enjoy doing their jobs. But I should hope that gaining such enjoyment doesn't require repetition for repetition's sake.

And, actually, I suspect that E8 may have been an awful chore and burden for some of the 'ground level' animators. You could tell that the artwork and animation teams were starting to sputter out a bit come the last two or three E8 iterations, which included such sequences as the Itsuki Esquire Watch commercial, and random shots of garbage on the ground.

I don't think that this was necessarily employee desire on the part of the penciling staff, of the inking staff, of the coloring team, etc... to do E8 eight times over. This is pure speculation, but I'm inclined to think that E8 was a top-down decision arising from some higher-up's creative fascination with numerology and finding a way to milk the franchise. The ground level animation staff may have been as much victims of it as we ourselves were... in which case, your defense of E8 is a darkly ironic one. It's also worth noting that the voice actors (and if we're going to consider the animators enjoyment, why not the voice actors?) were reportedly not too keen on Endless Eight. Haruhi's seiyu spoke disapprovingly of E8 after the fact, IIRC.


So... Endless Eight existed because somebody at KyoAni and/or Kadokawa thought it was a good idea for achieving some sort of goal. That's all, really, that can be definitively said. 'Caring' may have nothing to do with it. I certainly wouldn't call it 'caring' to want to stretch out the source material for the sheer purpose of stretching out the source material, which remains a very viable possibility for why E8 happened. And while it may be disrespectful to the fans to needlessly stretch out source material, I wouldn't call it 'crazy' either; it's a money-making scheme that's quite old itself.


KyoAni is a talented and artistic animation studio with dedicated professionals, and they deserve credit for the good that they've done (such as Haruhi 2006)... but it's not like they're the only good animation studio in the business. I seriously think that JC Staff's interpretation of Haruhi might be just as good as theirs if not better.


Endless Eight would have been better if it had been three or four episodes long... and this year would have been better if the remaining episodes had been given to Disappearance.

[Qilin]

Ah... Shamisen will forever be my favorite cat.

It's been a good season, I think, despite the whole Endless Eight issue and all. They wrapped up Sighs quite nicely, if I may add. I really did feel like I was rereading the novel while watching the last episode. Everything just felt nice. As for the ending of the episode, I'm surprised that they actually used the prologue of the novel as the epilogue. It was still entertaining nonetheless.

Though I certainly liked this season, the plot lacked a sense of urgency or crisis that added tension in the air. I would prefer a more exciting climax.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

KyoAni is a talented and artistic animation studio with dedicated professionals, and they deserve credit for the good that they've done (such as Haruhi 2006)... but it's not like they're the only good animation studio in the business. I seriously think that JC Staff's interpretation of Haruhi might be just as good as theirs if not better.
I have said all I have to say in the last post, but I do have to reply about JC Staff.

JC Staff was actually commissioned to adapt a franchise that is similar to Haruhi in potential; Zero no Tsukaima.
A light-novel series much like Haruhi, with a huge cast and complicate political, military, and moral undertones, Zero no Tsukaima was prompty cut to pieces by JC Staff until it becomes a generic harem comedy. All the issue of war, social class, and implications of what it means to be mages trained to KILL PEOPLE when the government told them to, gets pushed to the background and erased. The two main characters, who were suppose to progress into a proper romantic relationship, ended up getting stuck at the Tsundere stage and never went anywhere.

The complete disregard of the source material, means ZnT could no longer follow the novels, and it ended after the non-canon and pointless 2nd season.

Is that what you want Haruhi to be?

There are few studios who would follow the source material faithfully; JC Staff isn't one of them.

[Tornadium]

Ah... Shamisen will forever be my favorite cat.

It's been a good season, I think, despite the whole Endless Eight issue and all. They wrapped up Sighs quite nicely, if I may add. I really did feel like I was rereading the novel while watching the last episode. Everything just felt nice. As for the ending of the episode, I'm surprised that they actually used the prologue of the novel as the epilogue. It was still entertaining nonetheless.

Though I certainly liked this season, the plot lacked a sense of urgency or crisis that added tension in the air. I would prefer a more exciting climax.

Well remember it is a rerun.

They were limited in what they could do as they had already aired further than the story could possiby go for new content.

I must say putting the prologue at the END was a really nice touch. Not to mention that scene brought out Haruhi's deredere side which was really cute to see.

Hopefully this is all just building up to somthing more.

Oh and is it just me or is the anime REALLY starting to push for Haruhi x Kyon? Like a lot. I never noticed it before now but everyone has been saying how much it is pushing it now.

[Triple_R]

I have said all I have to say in the last post, but I do have to reply about JC Staff.

JC Staff was actually commissioned to adapt a franchise that is similar to Haruhi in potential; Zero no Tsukaima.
A light-novel series much like Haruhi, with a huge cast and complicate political, military, and moral undertones, Zero no Tsukaima was prompty cut to pieces by JC Staff until it becomes a generic harem comedy.

I quite liked Zero no Tsukaima, and I don't agree with your assessment of it at all. I felt that the political, military, and moral undertones were all there, and to a satisfactory degree. In particular...

I particularly liked how Tabitha was handled; the anime really made me care about her character.


The complete disregard of the source material, means ZnT could no longer follow the novels, and it ended after the non-canon and pointless 2nd season.

I never watched the 2nd season, so I can't comment on that. However, I did very much enjoy the 1st season of ZnT.

In any event, my comment pertaining to JC Staff mostly relates to how I've been very happy and pleased with their Shakugan no Shana work. They generally know how to tell entertaining stories, and they can do very colorful and pleasing artwork and animation as well.

Also... how exactly is it being faithful to the source material to take a story that the author felt warranted 30 pages, and making 8 episodes out of it?

Would I like to see Haruhi handled the way that Shana was?

Maybe. It might very well have ended up being better than what this year ended up being.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Well now, what can I say about this...

The incessant meowing at the start was beautifully obnoxious...
Kyon lost an argument with a cat...
Moar eye beemz and biting...
Tsuruya being sneaky in the shadows... (Though I suspect it may have been Cardboard Cutout Tsuruya from a previous episode...)
Kyon was told he shouldn't trust anything he hears from any of the three. Nagato said it, so we should believe her, right? *winks at people who take absolutely everything she says as the absolute truth*
Proof that Episode 00 can't be placed next, as it actually takes place within this episode...
The Final Prologue of awesomeness...

However, there are a few minor pro... ah, screw it. I wish I could go back and do this with E8 VII and Sigh III, so I'm just going to give this a perfect 10. :heh:

[Tornadium]

Well now, what can I say about this...

The incessant meowing at the start was beautifully obnoxious...
Kyon lost an argument with a cat...
Moar eye beemz and biting...
Tsuruya being sneaky in the shadows... (Though I suspect it may have been Cardboard Cutout Tsuruya from a previous episode...)
Kyon was told he shouldn't trust anything he hears from any of the three. Nagato said it, so we should believe her, right? *winks at people who take absolutely everything she says as the absolute truth*
Proof that Episode 00 can't be placed next, as it actually takes place within this episode...
The Final Prologue of awesomeness...

However, there are a few minor pro... ah, screw it. I wish I could go back and do this with E8 VII and Sigh III, so I'm just going to give this a perfect 10. :heh:

Lazy.

I got to say though Sighs was much much better than the novel.

I got to say though the parts where Kyon was told to trust none of the 3 freaked me out a bit.

[Triple_R]

I really don't get why people liked having the Prologue at the end of the episode. Sure, if you're a novel fan, you can see around it, but for people unfamiliar with the novel, they're going to take it very differently from how the source material intended. This episode gives no indication whatsoever that this scene is a prologue scene. People only familiar with the anime will look at Haruhi's reaction here and think "Why is she getting so upset at Kyon's words here? He's only playing off of Haruhi's own script ideas that she's already used for the movie."

Simply put, the Prologue works much better as an actual Prologue.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Lazy.

Please don't say I am lazy... I'm actually just plain crazy. ;)

Sorry, won't happen again, I promise. :heh:

*e* Actually I would've preferred the prologue being... at the beginning of a season. Shame the '06 team decided to go with post-Sigh material instead of covering Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody and Endless Eight, thus preventing that from happening, eh?