Question about a "Sin(s)" (spoilers)

[Yondaime]

I was curious what that red energy room with the skull that entrapped Greed for 130 years was :o I'm assuming it was infused with philosopher stone energy/liquid? Also who trapped Greed there and was it in the manga :o? I'm guessing it was some room that was sealed by Alchemy and the skull was the seal (or maybe just something for aesthetics hehe)? Any feedback is great :D The sins are so cool *__* I cant wait for "Wrath" to debut ;) And I really wanna see Sloth :D Anyone know when he'll appear in the anime with a rough estimate :D? Also does Pride exist or is he yet to be made :o Considering Pride is the deadliest of the 7 sins you would think he'd be the most powerful/ultimate Homunculi :D I'll be interested in what everyone has to say!

- Yondaime

[Sensei]

Hrm what I think is, your impatient ! I'm sure they'll explain some stuff on the Sins or "Humonculus" Later on ! Hehe no need to already know everything :P
Your guess on the philosopher stone energy to keep Greed might be right though, since he must be pretty damn strong...

As for when the others Sins will come ? Well, when times comes :P Long live vague answers.

[sarcasteak]

I normally don't post at all, let alone spoil, but since I like the Sins so much, I'll offer some spoilers to satiate your greed. XD


I was curious what that red energy room with the skull that entrapped Greed for 130 years was :o I'm assuming it was infused with philosopher stone energy/liquid?
Yah, seeing how it's red, I'm pretty sure it's the same pseudo-Philospher's Stone liquid.




Also who trapped Greed there and was it in the manga :o?
Greed wasn't trapped there in the manga (he was already free with the rest of his chimera gang when he first appeared) so I don't know for sure who imprisoned him, but most likely Father or the other Sins trapped him there for him to repend? In the manga, apparently his "greed" was too much for him to stay content working for Father that the guy betrayed his maker and went free-lance, so he was probably imprisoned there for a similar reason. Glad to know he lives up to his name, huh? XD


I'm guessing it was some room that was sealed by Alchemy and the skull was the seal (or maybe just something for aesthetics hehe)?
Hehe, perhaps the skull is the focal point of the seal since the red energy flow died as soon as the skull dropped. I'm not sure if the self-destruct button was supposed to free Greed, though; remember how Edward already slightly damaged the seal when he short-circuted the facility to disable the booby traps? Whoever trapped him there probably should know that it'd be a very bad idea to free him...




The sins are so cool *__* I cant wait for "Wrath" to debut ;)
Yup, the Sins are such cool villains! Oh, and as for Wrath...you've already seen him, just that you don't know it's he. He's truly badass...so badass that I don't think I should spoil it for you! But if you insist on finding out, some people on this forum already spoiled; all you have to do is look. ;)


And I really wanna see Sloth :D Anyone know when he'll appear in the anime with a rough estimate :D?
Quite a while away. Since the anime and manga have varying chronological order (the manga didn't flashback to Ed and Al's past until after they reunited with their Sensei), it's hard to even estimate. Sloth only appeared in two flashback frames in the manga, though, so not much is known about him other than the following: 1.) he's huge and muscular but he wrists are coffed with manacles and chained inside a cave tunnel, 2.) his facial feature includes: large chin (smooth shave from Quattro!) and long needle-like hair (kinda like Envy, but not as long and spread-out), and 3.) what Lust said: "He has always been slacking off. So he's still working." At least we know he lives up to his name, too!


Also does Pride exist or is he yet to be made :o Considering Pride is the deadliest of the 7 sins you would think he'd be the most powerful/ultimate Homunculi :D I'll be interested in what everyone has to say!
There has been speculations from a Chinese forum I visited that "Pride is the Father of all Sins...literally!" I think someone on this forum speculated that as well. It does sound good, right? All I know from the manga is that Greed already knew Lust (and respected her, probably because she has a decent "Ultimate" quality like he does), Envy (and looked down upon him for being "low-grade" and "ugly"), Gluttony, and Sloth. Greed didn't recognize Wrath who was created recently (60 years ago), and there's no mention of Pride, so either Pride hasn't been created yet or (speculation) is Father himself. You decide.


The rest of you, don't blame me...it has always been my belief that those who truly seek spoilers will eventually find them, so why not make things easier for them? ^_^;;

[Victim]

Pure speculation below:
I think Ed may have something to do with Pride. If we assume that each Sin character has something to do with its concept, then Ed is a good bet for Pride. His hubris lead to the diastrous attempt to ressurect his mom when he was a child. He thinks he can fix everything: Al's body, Nina, the problems of the 1st town in the series (forgot the name). "I am not a normal alchemist." Perhaps Ed's belief that he can do the impossible will lead to the creation of Pride.

[sarcasteak]

Pure speculation below:
I think Ed may have something to do with Pride. If we assume that each Sin character has something to do with its concept, then Ed is a good bet for Pride. His hubris lead to the diastrous attempt to ressurect his mom when he was a child. He thinks he can fix everything: Al's body, Nina, the problems of the 1st town in the series (forgot the name). "I am not a normal alchemist." Perhaps Ed's belief that he can do the impossible will lead to the creation of Pride.

This reminds me of the movie "Devil's Advocate"...:twitch:
Nice speculation!

[Fighter Volk]

Again, more pure speculation and some comments here...

I find the whole concept of the Seven Deadly Sins extremely intriguing, and, officially, as of episode 21, Fullmetal Alchemist has become my favorite anime series. I can't wait for the ep. 26 climax! Anyway, we all know that Lust has the form of Scar's girlfriend -- and apparently the incident with Scar's bro trying to revive her was a few years ago... so... I speculate Lust is the homunculus of the brother's girlfriend. Since Envy and Gluttony are in league with Lust, I think all the Deadly Sins 'work' under one main leader -- perhaps Hohenheim?

Then again, that brings to mind Greed's phrase about 130 years. In that case, their leader can't really be Hohenheim (though, from what someone posted above about Ed, if Hohenheim is truly their father, he'd probably make a good Pride). Anyway, if Lust, Gluttony, and Envy were... well, not exactly afraid, but at least a little taken aback by the obvious awakening of Greed... then perhaps not all of them are working together? Or, probably, their leader figure has told them how dangerous Greed is and why and where he's been trapped (probably why Lust mentioned that she is acquainted with 48 in episode 19).

Anyway, I find this whole thing really amazing. I can't wait for Wrath, Pride, and Sloth! And, please no manga spoilers for any of my above speculation. Thanks a lot!

[BigFire]

Again, more pure speculation and some comments here...

I find the whole concept of the Seven Deadly Sins extremely intriguing, and, officially, as of episode 21, Fullmetal Alchemist has become my favorite anime series. I can't wait for the ep. 26 climax! Anyway, we all know that Lust has the form of Scar's girlfriend -- and apparently the incident with Scar's bro trying to revive her was a few years ago... so... I speculate Lust is the homunculus of the brother's girlfriend. Since Envy and Gluttony are in league with Lust, I think all the Deadly Sins 'work' under one main leader -- perhaps Hohenheim?

Then again, that brings to mind Greed's phrase about 130 years. In that case, their leader can't really be Hohenheim (though, from what someone posted above about Ed, if Hohenheim is truly their father, he'd probably make a good Pride). Anyway, if Lust, Gluttony, and Envy were... well, not exactly afraid, but at least a little taken aback by the obvious awakening of Greed... then perhaps not all of them are working together? Or, probably, their leader figure has told them how dangerous Greed is and why and where he's been trapped (probably why Lust mentioned that she is acquainted with 48 in episode 19).

Anyway, I find this whole thing really amazing. I can't wait for Wrath, Pride, and Sloth! And, please no manga spoilers for any of my above speculation. Thanks a lot!

Sorry to disappoint you, but this show will not end at episode 26. It's a 50+ episodes show.

[Fighter Volk]

I know, Big Fire ^^ And hey, that would not be a disappointing thing if I did not know!

Anyway, you must admit 13 was a king of 'climax' -- the storyline took a turn to Dr. Marco and focused even more than ever on the Philosopher's Stone, and, especially, Scar. So, I'm guessing that 26 will also be a type of 'climax' -- as in, an amazing episode that points the spotlight to some other characters and a deeper storyline. That's why I meant by calling 26 a climax.

It's gonna be awesome.

[Yondaime]

Very intriguing comments thanks for the feedback everyone!! :) Anyways I know who Wrath is ;) and I'm looking forward to seeing him and Sloth and more of Greed and Lust, Gluttony, and Envy down the road :D Im curious if anyone can show me pics of Father in the manga? Also has the anime diverged that much from the manga and do you think it is for the better? I hope Pride is made/appears eventually!!!

- Yondaime

[BigFire]

Very intriguing comments thanks for the feedback everyone!! :) Anyways I know who Wrath is ;) and I'm looking forward to seeing him and Sloth and more of Greed and Lust, Gluttony, and Envy down the road :D Im curious if anyone can show me pics of Father in the manga? Also has the anime diverged that much from the manga and do you think it is for the better? I hope Pride is made/appears eventually!!!

- Yondaime

Well, here's some link to picture (http://www.emudown.com/home/display.asp?id=102&page=20) , and more on the right frame (http://www.emudown.com/home/display.asp?id=102&page=21) and more picture (http://www.emudown.com/home/display.asp?id=102&page=22) and a last picture (http://www.emudown.com/home/display.asp?id=102&page=29)

Oh, don't click on the link unless you want to be spoiled.

[sarcasteak]

Also has the anime diverged that much from the manga and do you think it is for the better?

Yes, the anime seriously diverges with the manga...

For example, in the manga the 3 Sins seemed only interested in Edward only for his sacrificial value, whereas in the anime, he's probably going to be the catalyst for their final step. Perhaps both will result the same, but the polar opposite attitudes make a huge difference.


I personally find the anime to be much better than the manga in more ways than one, so you guys aren't missing out. ^_^

[Riese]

I sort of wonder if Arikawa-sensei ever read Christopher Marlowe's classic, Doctor Faustus when he came up with the Sins.

http://www.bartleby.com/19/2/16.html

Scroll down to 100.

I wonder what he'll do for Covetousness?

[Namiko]

here's another question.
lust, the one with black hair and has the crazy fingers...i think thats her name.
when scar and al met up with gluttony and lust, he said;
'You...Why do you have that face? Did brother...succeed?'

the flashbacks of scar and his brother explained a bit, but could someone expand on what's happening? or is it still cloudy considering the episode.

another question not related, how do you do those spoiler things...it might have helped me cover what i just said above...

[YuuOminae]

Covetousness = Envy

A lot of movies have already messed around with the notion of the seven sins enough for it to be common knowledge to most people. I figure if any one source inspired him, it'd probably be a movie like...Seven.

Faustus IS a classic, but it's not something that most people would be exposed to.

[sarcasteak]

here's another question.
lust, the one with black hair and has the crazy fingers...i think thats her name.
when scar and al met up with gluttony and lust, he said;
'You...Why do you have that face? Did brother...succeed?'

the flashbacks of scar and his brother explained a bit, but could someone expand on what's happening? or is it still cloudy considering the episode.

It's meant to be mysterious~
All you can do is speculate for now.
This whole thing (Scar's recollection of his brother and that girl, along with his questioning of Lust) doesn't happen at all in the manga, so I can't cheat and tell you what happens for sure...


another question not related, how do you do those spoiler things...it might have helped me cover what i just said above...

Ay people, try harder! Just quote someone who had a spoiler thing in his post, and you'll see the tag is [ s p o i l e r ] stuff [ / s p o i l e r ], without all those spaces.

[Yondaime]

Does anyone know how Greed is captured by Father and returned to him? Is it by Wrath? Also is Sloth working at wherever Father is? or in some random place? and what is he doing there/working for exactly :o? One more question does anyone know the order from oldest to youngest each of the sins falls into? thanks!

- Yondaime

[BigFire]

Does anyone know how Greed is captured by Father and returned to him? Is it by Wrath? Also is Sloth working at wherever Father is? or in some random place? and what is he doing there/working for exactly :o? One more question does anyone know the order from oldest to youngest each of the sins falls into? thanks!

- Yondaime


Manga Spoiler all the way to Chapter 31
Wrath captured Greed in South District. Father and the rest of Sins are actually situtated in the most logical place, the basement of the Presidentual Palace in Central District. As for the age... Here's my guestimate order:

Father -> Lust -> Greed -> Envy -> Gluttony -> Sloth -> Wrath

[dreamless]

I think newer homuculi are more powerful?

also, I kinda wonder why Lust is... you know, "Lust"? :p

[Riese]

Covetousness = Envy

A lot of movies have already messed around with the notion of the seven sins enough for it to be common knowledge to most people. I figure if any one source inspired him, it'd probably be a movie like...Seven.

Faustus IS a classic, but it's not something that most people would be exposed to.

Doh, Covet is greed.
Faust. What art thou—the second?
Covet. I am Covetousness, begotten of an old churl in an old leathern bag; and might I have my wish I would desire that this house and all the people in it were turn’d to gold, that I might lock you up in my good chest. O, my sweet gold!


And respectively,
Faust. What art thou—the fourth?
envy. I am Envy, begotten of a chimney sweeper and an oyster-wife. I cannot read, and therefore wish all books were burnt. I am lean with seeing others eat. O that there would come a famine through all the world, that all might die, and I live alone! then thou should’st see how fat I would be. But must thou sit and I stand! Come down with a vengeance!

Lust looks like Mistress Minx all right(what the good doc calls Lechery.)

Another Faustus borne theory is that prehaps the creator of the 7 Homunculi is MEPHISTOPHILIS but that could be refuted.

[sarcasteak]

I think newer homuculi are more powerful?

also, I kinda wonder why Lust is... you know, "Lust"? :p

Manga Spoiler omg

Nah, I think that's just Wrath; his Ultimate Eye pwns too much. But otherwise, Lust's Ultimate Halberd is pretty formidable. Ultimate Shield sounded cool until Edward figured out how to break it down...then Greed was just a punching bag (but also because Greed was too slow and arrogant in that fight).

Lust seems more like a temptress...

[nak]

Manga Spoiler omg

Nah, I think that's just Wrath; his Ultimate Eye pwns too much. But otherwise, Lust's Ultimate Halberd is pretty formidable. Ultimate Shield sounded cool until Edward figured out how to break it down...then Greed was just a punching bag (but also because Greed was too slow and arrogant in that fight).

Lust seems more like a temptress...
Yup i agree. In the newest episode, 22

she does just that, giving Ed comforting words that justify why it's okay to transmute the poor prisoners.

that and well look at what shes wearing. She wouldnt be hauntingly beautiful in a despairingly dark way even without the provacative clothes.

[Longinus]

Haha, just a wild thought... what if Major Armstrong is pride??

Hahaha he's always showing off his muscles and his armstrong family methods... who knows, that's pride right? :heh:

[The Faction's Lord]

That ever so slightly worries me for some reason...

[dreamless]

Manga Spoiler omg

Nah, I think that's just Wrath; his Ultimate Eye pwns too much. But otherwise, Lust's Ultimate Halberd is pretty formidable. Ultimate Shield sounded cool until Edward figured out how to break it down...then Greed was just a punching bag (but also because Greed was too slow and arrogant in that fight).

Lust seems more like a temptress...
Greed's ability is quite lame to begin with

he'd be dead meat against Mustang... or anyone who uses fire as weapon... I do wonder how will the Ultimate Halberd and Ultimate Eye be explained...

[BigFire]

Manga Spoiler Ahoy
Greed's ability is quite lame to begin with

he'd be dead meat against Mustang... or anyone who uses fire as weapon... I do wonder how will the Ultimate Halberd and Ultimate Eye be explained...


Actually Ed's master had a bit of difficulty with Greed. She withdraw from fighting him and retreated. If she know what his shield is made from, she could unmake it (it took Edward quite a beating before he figures it out). As it stands, the shield is quit formidable to most attacks. About the only 3 people in this show who have a chance to unmake the shield are Izumi Curtis, Edward Elric and Scar. Wrath simply fight faster and not allow Greed to raise his shield. Roy's fire won't do much against a shield.

As for the ultimate halberd, come on, Lust's finger extends to pierce her enemy. I presumed that the Ultimate Eye is what give Wrath his ability to predict what his enemy will do and take appropriate action.

[sarcasteak]

Manga Spoiler Continues



As it stands, the shield is quit formidable to most attacks. About the only 3 people in this show who have a chance to unmake the shield are Izumi Curtis, Edward Elric and Scar. Wrath simply fight faster and not allow Greed to raise his shield. Roy's fire won't do much against a shield.

Yup...his shield, from Ed's reasoning, is made of carbon and at best as strong as a diamond. Normal fire, explosion, or attacks isn't going to hurt that


As for the ultimate halberd, come on, Lust's finger extends to pierce her enemy.

I find the fingers more deadly because they are so much more flexible and extendable.

[dreamless]

Manga Spoiler Ahoy



Actually Ed's master had a bit of difficulty with Greed. She withdraw from fighting him and retreated. If she know what his shield is made from, she could unmake it (it took Edward quite a beating before he figures it out). As it stands, the shield is quit formidable to most attacks. About the only 3 people in this show who have a chance to unmake the shield are Izumi Curtis, Edward Elric and Scar. Wrath simply fight faster and not allow Greed to raise his shield. Roy's fire won't do much against a shield.

As for the ultimate halberd, come on, Lust's finger extends to pierce her enemy. I presumed that the Ultimate Eye is what give Wrath his ability to predict what his enemy will do and take appropriate action.

For the Ultimate Shield, as sacasteak said, it's just carbon, and you can imagine what happens when Greed vs. Mustang... burn, burn, burn! :D

For the Ultimate Halberd, we all know what it is (Lust's finger), but how it works is another matter. It could be that her extended fingers are also carbon-based so as hard as diamond, but that doesn't explain how it can cut through things that easily. I have some theories, like her fingers can function as a high speed water-jet when touching matters, or a high frequency vibro-blade...

[BigFire]

Manga Spoiler Ahoy

For the Ultimate Shield, as sacasteak said, it's just carbon, and you can imagine what happens when Greed vs. Mustang... burn, burn, burn! :D


Ahm, no. Pure carbon doesn't burn at all. Whenever you have carbon base material that burns, it's NOT the carbon that's burning up, but the rest of the material binding to carbon (like hydrogen & oxygen) that burns. In Greed's case, his shield is a diamond like carbon coverall. It is quite flame proof.

[dreamless]

Manga Spoiler Ahoy




Ahm, no. Pure carbon doesn't burn at all. Whenever you have carbon base material that burns, it's NOT the carbon that's burning up, but the rest of the material binding to carbon (like hydrogen & oxygen) that burns. In Greed's case, his shield is a diamond like carbon coverall. It is quite flame proof.
Err... burning is the process of fast oxidization, and carbon + oxygen = carbon dioxide... and diamond burns easily when there's oxygen and heat...

[Yebyosh]

Ok this is a bit too much... guys/gals at least give a hint of what the spoilers are or create a new topic.

For anyone wondering to read the above manga spoilers or not. It should be appropriatedly titled "If Mustang fights Greed, what would happen?".

That title reveals not a trace of Greed's ability but would let those curious enough to read it.

My own conclusion (manga spoilt)
Greed's invincible shield is diamond. Ed broke it down by changing the strong inter-layer covalent bonds to weak Van der Waal's forces. This effectively changes the diamond to normal carbon. (Woohoo chemistry rox!)

Greed's limitation is that he cannot cover himself and reinforce the carbon shielding into diamond at the same time. He needs time to cover, then reinforce it. Which is why Wrath destroyed him with speed attacks.

Diamond does not burn at low temperatures. If I'm not wrong, the temperature at which diamond can react with oxygen to form CO2 (vaporization/burning) is 1100 degrees Celsius. Unless Roy is able to manipulate that amount of heat (which I think is unlikely without a Stone), he would not be able to burn off Greed's Shield.

[dreamless]

Ok this is a bit too much... guys/gals at least give a hint of what the spoilers are or create a new topic.

For anyone wondering to read the above manga spoilers or not. It should be appropriatedly titled "If Mustang fights Greed, what would happen?".

That title reveals not a trace of Greed's ability but would let those curious enough to read it.

My own conclusion (manga spoilt)
Greed's invincible shield is diamond. Ed broke it down by changing the strong inter-layer covalent bonds to weak Van der Waal's forces. This effectively changes the diamond to normal carbon. (Woohoo chemistry rox!)

Greed's limitation is that he cannot cover himself and reinforce the carbon shielding into diamond at the same time. He needs time to cover, then reinforce it. Which is why Wrath destroyed him with speed attacks.

Diamond does not burn at low temperatures. If I'm not wrong, the temperature at which diamond can react with oxygen to form CO2 (vaporization/burning) is 1100 degrees Celsius. Unless Roy is able to manipulate that amount of heat (which I think is unlikely without a Stone), he would not be able to burn off Greed's Shield.well I don't know if it's a spoiler or not now... anyway diamond burns at around 850c to 1000c under normal environment. It's not really that hard to reach 1000c, as the center temperature at the focal point of a solar reflector or magnifying glass under strong sunlight can reach over 1000c, a traditional coal oven can easily reach 800c-1000c, basically you can throw a diamond into a coal oven and it will burn easily... and I think the temperature at the center of the explosion caused by Mustang should be over 1000c for sure.