View Full Version : [Manga] Chapter 466 Discussion
james0246
2009-09-29, 03:59
Welcome to the weekly manga chapter discussion thread. This thread is created early to discuss spoilers and speculation about the upcoming chapter.
As per the forums rules, please don't ask for or mention about where to download the (licensed) manga. Also remember not to post or link to any translations of the manga, since this is illegal as well. Posting a synopses or summary is fine (and welcome) but please do not discuss scans, raws, translation groups, etc. Additionally, if you are posting someone else's synopsis (or their translation of a synopsis), then please provide credit were credit is due.
Remember that the manga is licensed, do not post significant part of the chapters. This stands for pictures and direct translations. Summaries are ok, crops of pictures are ok as well if you want to illustrate your point but this is it.
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Spoilers have not been released yet, so feel free to speculate to your heart's content (within reason, of course :))...
edit: all fixed. Thank you Pellissier :).
Wow Sasuke is really good at spotting fakes, and he can catch things with his feet, no wonder everyone thinks hes so cool.
edit: not as fun now that Pellissier fixed the title :(
AuroraFlash
2009-09-29, 04:58
I'm so excited about the recent spoilers and I hope I can lay my hands and eyes on that new chapter soon. The story is definitely blooming.
Nja posted.
It's not translated yet, so this is what I got from my noob japanese and an automatic translator ...
Nevermind. The more nja posts, the more confusing it gets and now, it seems the exact opposite of what was going on.
FireDetei
2009-09-29, 06:47
Just a quick note on something I just clocked - Next month is the 10 year anniversary of Naruto being published I think? November 1999 I think is was started, not including Pilot. Possible meeting of Team 7 in 2-3 chapters time?
Sakura's on her way and Naruto will no doubt be interested as to wtf is going on with a fleeing danzu, besides a falling roof doesnt exactly not make noise - Sasuke'll slip passed this next Kage now so possible confrontation with Danzu in the background?
Mizukage VS Sasuke: Sasuke uses Susanoo to defend against the Mizukage's Lava Release: Dissolution Technique¹, but takes a hit from Hiramekarei.
He flies back and is locked in a room with the Mizukage
It looks like the Mizukage has two kekkei genkai: something called Boil Release
She uses this to create a strongly acidic mist from her mouth to try and melt Sasuke...
Out of chakra, his arm begins to melt, but at that moment Zetsu uses his Spore Technique³ to grow out of the Mizukage's body and suck up her chakra. Sasuke is revived with fusing chakra and the locked room is destroyed by Susanoo.
They escape - Zetsu binds the Tsuchikage and his attendant, but the Tsuchikage says: "Shall we get involved too then"
They escape from Zetsu. A technique is fired at Sasuke that would disassemble him at the molecular level, but Sasuke has disappeared.
Then the Raikage and Gaara enter the conference room
Then Madara appears, carrying Sasuke on his shoulder
I came here to tell you a story about the "Eye of the Moon plan"
¹ Youton: Youkai no Jutsu (溶遁・溶解の術)
² Futton or Futsuton (沸遁)
³ Houshi no Jutsu (胞子の術)
This was the first spoiler
Fight is over. There is no more room for Naruto to interfere this arc, at least concerning Sasuke. He just made a fool of himself again. What he can do now is licking the shoes of the kages and apologize for Danzou's actions at the meeting.
And Madara is losing the respect I had for him. I actually hoped he wouldn't do a "I am going to reveal everything since you fools can't stop me anymore".
Well guys naruto spoilers one piece spoilers even bleach spoilers are out
oh geez...why does Mizukage have to die like that...
Murasaki
2009-09-29, 09:38
I wonder who hasn't fused in his chakra into Sasuke's body.
I bet he has chakra AIDS now.
james0246
2009-09-29, 10:21
Wow,..I guess Kishimoto decided to cut his loses and just give up writing the current arc. Oh well, maybe next time...
Wow way to ruin Sasuke's reputation yet again Kishimoto, damn. He got beat by a chick and a old guy. Can the haters please stand up, because this is there chapter.
Cub-Sama
2009-09-29, 10:45
Wow way to ruin Sasuke's reputation yet again Kishimoto, damn. He got beat by a chick and a old guy. Can the haters please stand up, because this is there chapter.
A chick who can shoot out acid and breathe acid and an old guy who can disassemble you molecularly? If he beat them then even I the one who has been saying Sasuke isnt overpowered will rant.
Madara is going to tell Sasuke half-truths, Sasuke will try to stop him by doing the opposite of what Madara says but because Madara is tricky he will be playing right into Madara's plan
A chick who can shoot out acid and breathe acid and an old guy who can disassemble you molecularly? If he beat them then even I the one who has been saying Sasuke isnt overpowered will rant.
Madara is going to tell Sasuke half-truths, Sasuke will try to stop him by doing the opposite of what Madara says but because Madara is tricky he will be playing right into Madara's plan
The old guy can mess with molecules?
Sasuke's gonna go insane, he's ego will be crushed and he'll be out of control with himself, he failed to succeed his mission with Akatsuki twice and he got saved by the men he hates, he will realize he's weak and everyone hates him so this is the part where Sasuke goes Part 1 Sasuke again to getting more power.
Someon needs to tell Sasuke not to worry. There´s probably no shinobi in the world that could have succeeded in that mission.
Cub-Sama
2009-09-29, 11:01
Someon needs to tell Sasuke not to worry. There´s probably no shinobi in the world that could have succeeded in that mission.
Except Madara and Zetsu who probably could've killed everyone in that conference room before they even knew it
Except Madara and Zetsu who probably could've killed everyone in that conference room before they even knew it
Maybe Madara because of his Space/Time-thingy, but I´m not sure about Zetsu.
Someon needs to tell Sasuke not to worry. There´s probably no shinobi in the world that could have succeeded in that mission.Pain? Naruto?
Cub-Sama
2009-09-29, 11:54
Maybe Madara because of his Space/Time-thingy, but I´m not sure about Zetsu.
Zetsu could suck all the Kages dry :heh:
I want to see Zetsu fight seriously though
Pain? Naruto?
No. Not even Madara could bust in a meeting of 5 Kages and take out one, if it weren´t for his extreme speed. Naruto is far from being Pain´s level or anything like a real stealthy ninja, who could sneak in and take out a target quickly.
Even Pain couldn´t overcome 5 Kages. I bet Raikage and Gaara would bee enough to fnish him. Yes, I honestly do. He is no god after all.
james0246
2009-09-29, 12:08
I lol'd at Tsuchikage's line concerning Sasuke ("he's really the guy that Deidara was done over by?"). Talk about kicking Sasuke when he is down :).
That being said, the Mizukage's bitch-slap is a bit preposterous. Why oh why Kishimoto must you endlessly degrade your female characters? Couldn't you have made the old feeble looking guy the Kage that gets effortless defeated by Zetsu, and not the young powerful looking female Kage? What a waste, and all for a simple Deidara joke...
Pain? Naruto?
Pain and Nagato? Maybe, especially considering that many believe the majority of Nagato's powers simply vanished during his talk with Naruto.
Naruto, though? Unless he can make a Rasenshuriken the size of a mountain and just launch the technique at the Conferrence Hall, then no, Naruto couldn't take on all 4 Kages.
Madara?...Maybe.
I lol'd at Tsuchikage's line concerning Sasuke ("he's really the guy that Deidara was done over by?"). Talk about kicking Sasuke when he is down :).
That ebing said, the Mizukage's bitch-slap is a bit preposterous. Why oh why Kishimoto must you endlessly degrade your female characters? Couldn't Kishimoto make the old feeble looking guy the Kage that gets effortless defeated by Zetsu, and not the young powerful looking female Kage? What a waste, and all for a simple Deidara joke...
I don´t know, I´ve always enjoyed old but strong characters (Muten Roshi, Sandaime, Yamamoto, Rayleigh).
However, I am kind of disappointed in Tsuchikage´s cocky personality, so I probably agree with you on the fact that the old one should be the one dying in this case.
Wow way to ruin Sasuke's reputation yet again Kishimoto, damn. He got beat by a chick and a old guy. Can the haters please stand up, because this is there chapter.
You've got to be kidding. Sasuke just challenged all five of the world's Kages by himself. Anything less than him being utterly humiliated would have been ridiculous.
james0246
2009-09-29, 12:41
I don´t know, I´ve always enjoyed old but strong characters (Muten Roshi, Sandaime, Yamamoto, Rayleigh).
However, I am kind of disappointed in Tsuchikage´s cocky personality, so I probably agree with you on the fact that the old one should be the one dying in this case.
I'm a fan of old tough dudes as well, but since we already had several old tough dudes in the series (Kakuzu, Sarutobi, Danzou, hell even Madara), this could have been a great moment for a younger person, especially someone of the female persuasion, to deal out some punishment, but instead, we get another old...
Here's hoping he threw out his back...:).
You've got to be kidding. Sasuke just challenged all five of the world's Kages by himself. Anything less than him being utterly humiliated would have been ridiculous.
Yet Zetsu calls all of them weak, and effortlessly defeats the Mizukage...
Still, Sasuke had a damn impressive showing, proving that he can probably defeat any singular Kage.
lotus_lee
2009-09-29, 12:46
Lol, he got put down back to where he belongs. Maybe this will teach the emo a lesson.
I can't wait to see the pics on Friday though; the Tsuchikage's molecular attack (I think it was his and not Mizukage's judging from the translations) sounds pretty cool.
Although I always thought Sasuke taking on the 5 Kages was stupid, I would have at least liked to see him defeat Danzou. God he's such a coward for running away! I don't believe he will ever progress from acting-Hokage to the 6th Hokage.
Ero-Senn1n
2009-09-29, 12:50
You've got to be kidding. Sasuke just challenged all five of the world's Kages by himself. Anything less than him being utterly humiliated would have been ridiculous.
There is no humiliation here, it's the opposite. Sasuke never planned to fight with other kages, he was waiting to kill Danzou, it was Madara's plan to have Sasuke train his MS against kages and also to definitively make of Sasuke a wanted criminal chased by all 5 villages and that way to definitively tie Sasuke to himself. Madara is right now winning over Naruto in the fight for Sasuke's soul. The reality is that this fight did show that Sasuke can beat any individual kage, so this fight did hype up Sasuke's power.
Even Pain couldn´t overcome 5 Kages. I bet Raikage and Gaara would bee enough to fnish him. Yes, I honestly do. He is no god after all.
You should realize that Pain never wanted to kill Naruto, and in the end he even began to support Naruto in his quest. The only real fight where we could see Pain in action was against Sage-Jiraiya, and Jiraiya died. We are talking about a guy who can suck out your soul even without fighting you, nobody could ever defeat that level of power and so Kishimoto made a plot where Nagato makes a suicide jutsu so that his godlike power is removed from the story because he was too much overpowered.
I'm not impressed by the kages, as Zetsu said they're not the strongest of all. For example the raikage is only taijutsu, Gaara was nothing special, rock kage is an old guy like Sarutobi and mizukage is just a bloodline beast. Danzou is not even worth mentioning. So this is the best the ninja world can offer, at least now we know that Naruto and Sasuke have reached the top level of the ninja world and so they can continue to surpass every living and dead ninja :)
Alchemist007
2009-09-29, 12:52
Oh look at me looking at spoilers! I guess I really don't care about Sasuke's fights here.
Time to rock the weakest akatsuki thread and move Zetsu up a few slots...he beat a kage, top that:P
Summary seems very disappointing, play time is over and Sasuke failed :( After all the "power of darkness" attitude and effective techniques that made everyone go OMG!, Sasuke got owned (yes, beginning to melt is a sign of ownage) and saved at the last second by papa Madara (more like, great-great-great-grandpa Madara, but oh well). I really wanted Sasuke to just win this one and run away, not necessarily killing Danzou but at least running off with his pride, leaving an air of cool in the conference hall.
He is no god after all.
Actually, Nagato WAS god, he had the rinnegan, and I doubt it will ever reappear...(unless ofc Ebizu is actually the Rikudo sennin and was hiding in konoha, wearing sunglasses and a bandana :heh:)
You should realize that Pain never wanted to kill Naruto, and in the end he even began to support Naruto in his quest. The only real fight where we could see Pain in action was against Sage-Jiraiya, and Jiraiya died. We are talking about a guy who can suck out your soul even without fighting you, nobody could ever defeat that level of power and so Kishimoto made a plot where Nagato makes a suicide jutsu so that his godlike power is removed from the story because he was too much overpowered.
I'm not impressed by the kages, as Zetsu said they're not the strongest of all. For example the raikage is only taijutsu, Gaara was nothing special, rock kage is an old guy like Sarutobi and mizukage is just a bloodline beast. Danzou is not even worth mentioning. So this is the best the ninja world can offer, at least now we know that Naruto and Sasuke have reached the top level of the ninja world and so they can continue to surpass every living and dead ninja :)
I do realize that Pain´s fight against Naruto is not an adequate way of measuring his skill. I stated that myself often enough. I still see Pain as the strongest character there ever was in Narutoverse, however I doubt he could take on several Kages on his own.
I don´t know about the others, but I consider Raikage a pretty strong Kage, and Gaara himself might not be as strong as the other Kages, but it´s the match-ups that matter. His sand techniques are ideal for fighting multiple enemies and interrupt the teamwork of the individual bodies of Pain. In addition, Pain himself stated after his fight with Jiraiya: "If he had known our secret, there´s no way we could have won this battle", which makes me believe that the right match-up and know-how would make Pain quickly seem very vulnerable.
Maybe I was underestimating Pain in saying Gaara and Raikage could take him on, but still I do not believe that he could defeat four Kages defending Danzou. That´s simply not possible for him, even if they´re not the strongest.
KidKoolAid
2009-09-29, 14:36
I want a strong female character in Naruto. I thought Mizukage would be the one , but I guessed wrong. Tsunade didn't get to show much power other than her fight with oro and using the slugs to saving the village. Sakura is just useless , her most powerful fight was when she was being used as a puppet. I just love hinata , but she is as weak as they come and Ino let sakura pass her so that's that. Konan really didn't do anything , but offer support for nagato. It doesn't matter if she is good or evil. I just would love to have a strong female character. I do find Tsume Inuzuka bad ass , but we don't see much of her.
unsavory treatment towards females is a reoccurring theme in these kind of mangas.
Struggler
2009-09-29, 16:02
The Mizukage got caught off guard while winning against Sasuke. This means she automatically t3h sux now? Give me a break.
james0246
2009-09-29, 16:04
The Mizukage got caught off guard while winning against Sasuke. This means she automatically t3h sux now? Give me a break.
Does that mean she sucks? No, of course not. But it does mean that Kishimoto can't help but trash the only female character for no real reason...
Struggler
2009-09-29, 16:20
Does that mean she sucks? No, of course not. But it does mean that Kishimoto can't help but trash the only female character for no real reason...
It was a sneak attack while she was distracted. Zetsu is obviously very stealthy: the sharingan, byakugan, and a couple of sensory ninjas couldn't tell that Zetsu was still alive. It would be more of a "trash" on those people than on the Mizukage.
I'll bet you she's in no worse shape than the Raikage. You people are over reacting.
james0246
2009-09-29, 16:27
It was a sneak attack while she was distracted. Zetsu is obviously very stealthy: the sharingan, byakugan, and a couple of sensory ninjas couldn't tell that Zetsu was still alive. It would be more of a "trash" on those people than on the Mizukage.
I'll bet you she's in no worse shape than the Raikage. You people are over reacting.
It wasn't my point that Zetsu "defeated" a Kage. I'm sure he could "Sneak Attack" almost anyone in the series. My point was that there was no reason Kishimoto couldn't have set-up the situation so that it was the Tsuchikage that Zetsu sneak attacked. Instead, Kishimoto choose to use the only female character, for no real reason.
I want a strong female character in Naruto.
Temari.
There's also Sakura who kicked ass at the beginning of part 2... She was then downgraded to her former self though.
JackRydden224
2009-09-29, 16:30
Does that mean she sucks? No, of course not. But it does mean that Kishimoto can't help but trash the only female character for no real reason...
No real reason? Coming inches away from killing Sasuke is not a real reason?
This has got to be the perfect scenario for Madara to manipulate Sasuke again. Madara can easily pump some "your hatred isn't strong enough" or " you need Itachi's eyes" or something else that will motivate Sasuke into another dumb attempt.
That Other Ninja
2009-09-29, 16:32
Temari.
There's also Sakura who kicked ass at the beginning of part 2... She was then downgraded to her former self though.
What he/she means is, he/she wants a female Naruto/Sasuke.
Kishimoto is sexist. Oh well.
No real reason? Coming inches away from killing Sasuke is not a real reason?
This has got to be the perfect scenario for Madara to manipulate Sasuke again. Madara can easily pump some "your hatred isn't strong enough" or " you need Itachi's eyes" or something else that will motivate Sasuke into another dumb attempt.
Kishimoto could as well have Tsuchikage almost killing Sasuke. That way the old man would be the one being "sneak attacked" (lol at that term btw.) by Zetsu. But he chose the woman.
Mizukage almost killing Sasuke but then being killed by Zetsu is Kishimoto´s way of saying: "Here you have your strong woman! Now shut up and let me focus on male characters again!"
KidKoolAid
2009-09-29, 16:48
Temari.
There's also Sakura who kicked ass at the beginning of part 2... She was then downgraded to her former self though.
oh yeah I forgot about Temari , but she hasn't done much for me other than wishing her and Shikamaru would get together. I already stated my piece on sakura. Yes she was awesome , but most of the fight was her being controlled. After the time jump i was so happy to see sakura now acting like tsunade and I love how she was out there handling her business standing toe to toe with naruto and not just there getting in the way or just offering support. Kishi has since then taken her right back to where she was before the time jump and that sakura character I hated. Hopefully mizukuge is not dead and she will go on to be a super threat. I would love to see her in an all out brawl with no crying or BSing. I need me a balsa character.
Kishimoto could as well have Tsuchikage almost killing Sasuke. That way the old man would be the one being "sneak attacked" (lol at that term btw.) by Zetsu. But he chose the woman.
Mizukage almost killing Sasuke but then being killed by Zetsu is Kishimoto´s way of saying: "Here you have your strong woman! Now shut up and let me focus on male characters again!"
She's a fox in the looks department though, that's what all females female characters in naruto are for. :heh:
That Other Ninja
2009-09-29, 16:51
She's a fox in the looks department though, that's what females female characters in naruto are for. :heh:
Actually that comment got me thinking and to be honest, if Naruto was a homosexual manga it'd probably be the same as it is now. Except Naruto would be in love with Sasuke. :heh:
That's how useless the females are I think.
Struggler
2009-09-29, 16:51
It wasn't my point that Zetsu "defeated" a Kage. I'm sure he could "Sneak Attack" almost anyone in the series. My point was that there was no reason Kishimoto couldn't have set-up the situation so that it was the Tsuchikage that Zetsu sneak attacked. Instead, Kishimoto choose to use the only female character, for no real reason.
The fact that it could have happened to any of the Kages, male or female should have eliminated the "LOL, Naruto female" from this.
Has the spoiler been confirmed yet...?
KidKoolAid
2009-09-29, 17:02
Actually that comment got me thinking and to be honest, if Naruto was a homosexual manga it'd probably be the same as it is now. Except Naruto would be in love with Sasuke. :heh:
That's how useless the females are I think.
Naruto is almost in love with him.:p He is always dreaming about him and calling out his name. I remember the good old days when Naruto viewed him as competition and was always trying to win sakura heart. I blame Sakura's promise for Naruto's borderline yaoi relationship with Sasuke.
Actually that comment got me thinking and to be honest, if Naruto was a homosexual manga it'd probably be the same as it is now. Except Naruto would be in love with Sasuke. :heh:
That's how useless the females are I think.
Wait are you trying to imply that this isn't so now? :heh::p
There is no humiliation here, it's the opposite. Sasuke never planned to fight with other kages, he was waiting to kill Danzou, it was Madara's plan to have Sasuke train his MS against kages and also to definitively make of Sasuke a wanted criminal chased by all 5 villages and that way to definitively tie Sasuke to himself. Madara is right now winning over Naruto in the fight for Sasuke's soul. The reality is that this fight did show that Sasuke can beat any individual kage, so this fight did hype up Sasuke's power.
I don't see how it showed that at all. He would probably have been killed by Raikage 1v1 if not for Gaara. He then used his maximum power to escape, and almost got killed by Mizukage 1v1 if not for Zetsu.
That Other Ninja
2009-09-29, 20:24
Wait are you trying to imply that this isn't so now? :heh::p
Does Naruto want to bone Sasuke in the poop-chute? No, I don't think so. But he might as well with how Kishimoto uses females.
Ulquiorra
2009-09-29, 21:16
The whole chapter comes down to what Madara is going to say to the Kages. This should be one of the last chapters in this arc. We know he said he is going to tell them his Eye of the Moon plan. It sounds like he is going to manipulate the Kages into war. Either against each other or perhaps against Konoha. Interesting that Danzou won't be there to hear it. I wouldn't be shocked if it was Konoha vs the World with Madara pulling the strings. These bodyguards might have been created for the Rookies of Konoha to fight.
oh yeah I forgot about Temari , but she hasn't done much for me other than wishing her and Shikamaru would get together.I hate how people bring her up as a strong female when her greatest accomplishment in the story will be producing Shikamaru's genius children. Temari didn't do anything at the Summit except show a slightly bigger version of her old jutsu. Bleh.
Temari would get raped by the Mizukage. The Mizukage is your strong female ninja. The woman has two bloodline limits for Pete's sake! And she is okay since Kishi isn't killing any of the Kages. All the Kages are okay except for Raikage's boo-boo.
I still have a lot more hope for Sakura. Hinata? Not so much. Ino and Tenten? :heh: Samui and Karui are awesome though.
prototype_sky
2009-09-29, 21:24
There are a few females in naruto that didn't completely suck except that they're only good so long they are old and not as attractive :heh:.
Temari has the best fight record 2/3 wins 1 Assist (Shikamaru) the only male she defeated was Shikamaru and that was because he gave up :rolleyes:
Old lady from Sand Village (1 Win)
Sakura(1 Draw 2 Assist) (Only in Movies/Filler has she defeated anyone :twitch:)
Tsunade (0 Wins)
Ino(1 Draw)
Hinata(0 Wins)
TenTen(0 Wins)
Anko(0 Wins)
Kurenai(0 Wins)
Karin(0 Wins)
Shizune(0 Wins)
Seriously why bother having female ninja's
Wow way to ruin Sasuke's reputation yet again Kishimoto, damn. He got beat by a chick and a old guy. Can the haters please stand up, because this is there chapter.
'Sup /shot
But wow Kishimoto. Once again you're a sexist and once again you have your precious Sasuke rescued.
Seriously Naruto is so convoluted at this point (well it's always been but still) that I wonder why I still even follow it. Maybe I just enjoy being annoyed by the various silly antics that Kishimoto pulls to save his favorite characters.
Solution to everything: Shoot Sasuke. Someone just get a gun and do it. Naruto doesn't like it? Oh well, problem solved, everyone can go home :heh:
james0246
2009-09-29, 21:47
The whole chapter comes down to what Madara is going to say to the Kages. This should be one of the last chapters in this arc. We know he said he is going to tell them his Eye of the Moon plan. It sounds like he is going to manipulate the Kages into war. Either against each other or perhaps against Konoha. Interesting that Danzou won't be there to hear it. I wouldn't be shocked if it was Konoha vs the World with Madara pulling the strings. These bodyguards might have been created for the Rookies of Konoha to fight.
It is still unclear if Madara is just talking to Sasuke, or if he is talking to the Kages.
I don't see how it showed that at all. He would probably have been killed by Raikage 1v1 if not for Gaara. He then used his maximum power to escape, and almost got killed by Mizukage 1v1 if not for Zetsu.You do know Sasuke had everyone boned when he summoned Susanoo and choose to not kill everyone with his Sword of Tosaka. The way I see it, Sasuke tanked attacks that would have killed him dead from Susanoo and the kick would have been tanked as well making Sasuke win the fight against Raikage, then theres Gaara, and last I checked, Chidori pierces Sand so he would have been doomed to, then theres Mizukage and the Old Guy left, Susanoo spam and there dead but Sasuke had run out of chakra so it can't be helped.
james0246
2009-09-29, 22:58
^We do not know what sword was used with Sasuke's Susano'o, but the lack of a sake gourd could indicate that Sasuke does not have the Tosaka blade.
Tyrone Biggums
2009-09-29, 23:18
I like what Kishi did here (if the spoilers are true) he is at least extending the story a little more...
If the battle was resolved here there wouldn't be too much to go on, at least this way maybe we can bring back my boy Kisame and see what he's up to.
And I'm still wondering when Konan will make another appearance....bitch said she would help out Naruto. I was thinking along the lines of supporting him within her counrty...BUT SO FAR NOTHING!
You do know Sasuke had everyone boned when he summoned Susanoo and choose to not kill everyone with his Sword of Tosaka. The way I see it, Sasuke tanked attacks that would have killed him dead from Susanoo and the kick would have been tanked as well making Sasuke win the fight against Raikage, then theres Gaara, and last I checked, Chidori pierces Sand so he would have been doomed to, then theres Mizukage and the Old Guy left, Susanoo spam and there dead but Sasuke had run out of chakra so it can't be helped.
Those are all purely your assumptions. Susanoo doesn't appear particularly mobile, they could probalby all just fall back until he loses it. We already saw that the Amaterasu shield couldn't stop Raikage's attacks, it just damaged him and then he got better - Sasuke would have been dead from that hit. And Gaara's shield has obviously gotten stronger since it blocked Amaterasu easily, Susanoo probably isn't lightning-based either.
Ulquiorra
2009-09-29, 23:42
It is still unclear if Madara is just talking to Sasuke, or if he is talking to the Kages.
Both translations seem to have him talking to the Kages.
Does Naruto want to bone Sasuke in the poop-chute? No, I don't think so. But he might as well with how Kishimoto uses females.
I think he would rather have the reverse happen.
There are a few females in naruto that didn't completely suck except that they're only good so long they are old and not as attractive :heh:.
Temari has the best fight record 2/3 wins 1 Assist (Shikamaru) the only male she defeated was Shikamaru and that was because he gave up :rolleyes:
Old lady from Sand Village (1 Win)
1 of Temari's wins doesn't count because she was fighting another girl, and The old lady was killed off as soon as her grandson let her win.
james0246
2009-09-30, 01:00
Both translations seem to have him talking to the Kages.
Not really. The spoilers, more or less, amount to "Madara appears". This could just as easily be a scene transition, and have nothing to do with other Kages. I certainly hope that Madara will speak to the various Kages, but it is still unclear.
Those are all purely your assumptions. Susanoo doesn't appear particularly mobile, they could probalby all just fall back until he loses it. We already saw that the Amaterasu shield couldn't stop Raikage's attacks, it just damaged him and then he got better - Sasuke would have been dead from that hit. And Gaara's shield has obviously gotten stronger since it blocked Amaterasu easily, Susanoo probably isn't lightning-based either.
The Amaterasu offensive shield couldn't stop the Raikage, but the quarter-formed Susano'o was enough to stop several of the Raikage's previous attacks, so it is entirely possible that the quarter-formed Susano'o with the pronged Amaterasu flames could have killed the Raikage. Whatever the case, by the end of the little fight, the Raikage was the worse for wear, and Sasuke could still go on to battle 3 Jounin, another Kage, an elite samurai (Mifune), until he was significantly hurt by yet another Kage.
There are a few females in naruto that didn't completely suck except that they're only good so long they are old and not as attractive :heh:.
Temari has the best fight record 2/3 wins 1 Assist (Shikamaru) the only male she defeated was Shikamaru and that was because he gave up :rolleyes:
Old lady from Sand Village (1 Win)
Sakura(1 Draw 2 Assist) (Only in Movies/Filler has she defeated anyone :twitch:)
Tsunade (0 Wins)
Ino(1 Draw)
Hinata(0 Wins)
TenTen(0 Wins)
Anko(0 Wins)
Kurenai(0 Wins)
Karin(0 Wins)
Shizune(0 Wins)
Seriously why bother having female ninja's
Because if it was all males, it would explain far too much
And It's disappointing, Sharigan Tank was the best spoiler ever...I demand it to be in the manga.
Kyero Fox
2009-09-30, 07:12
There are a few females in naruto that didn't completely suck except that they're only good so long they are old and not as attractive :heh:.
Temari has the best fight record 2/3 wins 1 Assist (Shikamaru) the only male she defeated was Shikamaru and that was because he gave up :rolleyes:
Old lady from Sand Village (1 Win)
Sakura(1 Draw 2 Assist) (Only in Movies/Filler has she defeated anyone :twitch:)
Tsunade (0 Wins)
Ino(1 Draw)
Hinata(0 Wins)
TenTen(0 Wins)
Anko(0 Wins)
Kurenai(0 Wins)
Karin(0 Wins)
Shizune(0 Wins)
Seriously why bother having female ninja's
there are plenty of animes out there that are female based with weak ass male characters. not to mention back in the day Ninjas were only males same with Samurai.
so don't get angry.
I hate how people bring her up as a strong female when her greatest accomplishment in the story will be producing Shikamaru's genius children. Temari didn't do anything at the Summit except show a slightly bigger version of her old jutsu. Bleh.
She didn't do much... so what? As forgotten as she is in part 2, she has always been presented as a strong character.
AuroraFlash
2009-09-30, 08:47
Temari won in the preliminaries against TenTen
Temari won against Shikamaru (he gave up, she won by default)
Temari won against Tayuya (fatal kill)
I don't think she's weak. She's just not from Konoha, so we don't see her all the time, but she's definitely strong. I wonder how she'd do against one Akatsuki or other Kage-levels.
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
2009-09-30, 09:05
there are plenty of animes out there that are female based with weak ass male characters. not to mention back in the day Ninjas were only males same with Samurai.
so don't get angry.
Thats not true, it was female ninjas back in the day. Because it was more easy for them to assassinate. Simply based on the fact that men are suckers for pussy
And Gaara's shield has obviously gotten stronger since it blocked Amaterasu easily, Susanoo probably isn't lightning-based either.
Maybe it is stronger (Deidara's Explotions did'nt affect him), but in this Situation Chidory should had passed trough, as this was the point of Chidory against Gaara ultimate defense in the chunin exam to begin with, the piercing power of Chidory Helped Sasuke get trough the defense, I'm sure this way around even if amaterasu could not pass trough, Chidory could had done so.
Temari won in the preliminaries against TenTen
Temari won against Shikamaru (he gave up, she won by default)
Temari won against Tayuya (fatal kill)
and she's a jounin in part 2.
Unless people must be Akatsuki or Kage level to be considered strong, she definitely is.
Maybe it is stronger (Deidara's Explotions did'nt affect him), but in this Situation Chidory should had passed trough, as this was the point of Chidory against Gaara ultimate defense in the chunin exam to begin with, the piercing power of Chidory Helped Sasuke get trough the defense, I'm sure this way around even if amaterasu could not pass trough, Chidory could had done so.
I think many people misunderstood this. Gaara´s sand did not block Amaterasu. The flames of Amaterasu burnt the sand as they burn anything else they touch. It just takes some time.
Also, Sasuke´s chidori wouldn´t help, if Gaara sets up his sand bareer a few metres distant from him.
Another thing...I´m beginning to wonder what the big deal is with Susanoo. I mean, it´s not very mobile, all it does is shield you and drain your energy. One could simply wait and hide until Sasuke runs out of power.
james0246
2009-09-30, 10:27
^Sasuke can stretch his Chidori Eisō up to 10 meteres (remeber when he attacked Orochimaru from at least 5 meters away, or when he cut through the Hachibi's tail, etc). So, distance is not truly a factor.
And yes, Gaara's sand was being consumed, it's just that there is so much of it, and it can be readily resupplied from the Earth around Gaara, that makes the defense one of the best, if not the best, against Susano'o.
---
That being said, new info is out.
The Mizukage can use 3 elements (Earth, Water, and Fire) which is how she is able to use what appears to be 2 bloodlines (considering that having 2 bloodlines makes little sense, I am going to assume that she just has the ability to use 2 distinct elemental combination). The Mizukage's attacks are so strong, she is litteraly takng apart he half-formed Susano'o defense.
Madara does appear before the Kages (the Raikage yells at him) in order to discuss his plan. So, next chapter should be the final chapter of this arc.
Also, Sasuke seems to have a "tender" flashback (of some sort) concerning Juugo, Suigetsu, and Naruto.
^Yes, I rememberd Sasuke can stretch his lightning, that´s why I edited my reply in order to delete my statement concerning his reach. However, you probably read the original posting and replied to that, so I had to reintegrate my "false" statement. >.<
Alleluia_Cone
2009-09-30, 12:24
I'm reserving final judgment until I see the full chapter, but I don't think the Mizukage was denigrated all that much. Her defeat, if that is what you want to call it, was the result of a sneak attack and highly unusual ability that she could have never known about before. Moreover, she was fighting someone else at the time, who is no pushover himself. She was careless perhaps, and she is young, which is a valid excuse all things considered (think about how many stupid things Naruto does in every fight he engages in, even those where he is clearly superior to his opponent).
If anything, this chapter makes it seem like she is really, really powerful. Consider that she seems capable of taking down Sasuke and his most powerful technique easily. On that basis alone, I think I would already rate her above the Kazekage, Raikage, and Hokage (i.e., Tsunade). I haven't seen enough of the Tsuchikage or Danzo to pass judgment.
As a final side note, Sasuke, in what seemed impossible not that long ago, is more unlikeable than ever. He is also becoming pretty stupid to boot. Did he actually think he could take down all 5 kages with only his little team? There hasn't been a character that has shown that type of capability yet. Even Nagato would be hard pressed to do so; although, if he was willing to die in the effort, I would have given him an outside chance.
Spicy~Noodles
2009-09-30, 12:31
@zgoten's comment on Pain not being able to defeat the 5 kages.
Are you talking about the guy who by himself, defeated the Hokage, Kakashi, the entire village of Konoha, nearly all the remaining ninjas, Sage-mode naruto x3, gamabunta and all the other toads, 8 tails demon fox all in the same day? You aren't saying that 5 top tier ninjas are gonna actually stop Pain right? God Pain alone could destroy all five Kages at once with one jutsu. If it was Pain instead of Sasuke there, it woulda been a blowout victory for Pain. All of those ninjas and summons combined would have utterly destroyed the 5 kages.
It's absurd, after reviewing the insane amounts of damage Pain dealt, there is no question he would have just compressed all the kages into a giant ball in the sky until they all popped. Pain is God Tier, and really, Naruto vs Pain 1v1 would have been a no contest.
I'm gonna say it now, Pain > 5 Kages. (I have a feeling I'm gonna end up writing 5000 word replies soon).
james0246
2009-09-30, 12:35
@Alleluia_Cone's post: Maybe I am just being overly sensitive, but of all the characters to actually be defeated in this arc, I find it strange that it is the female character that gets taken down (in 1 chapter at that), and as she falls Zetsu even comments on how weak she is. Of course, I will wait for the pictures to reserve full judgement, but it is just seems weird.
@Spicy~Noodles post: Pain alone, probably not (since Deva is the ultimate threat in such a scenario) but Pain and Nagato (if they can actually work together) against all 4 Kages is a definte maybe. Since we do not know all of the skills of the individual Kages (whether they have summons or not, etc), we can do nothing but make wild guesses, but Pain and Nagato does seem like a viable threat against multiple Kages (considering if Sasuke has full use of a fully embodied Susano'o, I expect he could have defeated both the Raikage and Gaara or at least heavily swung the battle in his favour).
Spicy~Noodles
2009-09-30, 12:38
Kishimoto seems kinda sexist now that you mention it James.
Alleluia_Cone
2009-09-30, 12:56
Kishimoto is somewhat sexist, but at least Naruto is not as bad as Bleach. That being said, I really am holding out hope that the Mizukage lives up to her potential. It would be nice to have a female character that can be considered in the Itachi and above level.
@zgoten's comment on Pain not being able to defeat the 5 kages.
Are you talking about the guy who by himself, defeated the Hokage, Kakashi, the entire village of Konoha, nearly all the remaining ninjas, Sage-mode naruto x3, gamabunta and all the other toads, 8 tails demon fox all in the same day? You aren't saying that 5 top tier ninjas are gonna actually stop Pain right? God Pain alone could destroy all five Kages at once with one jutsu. If it was Pain instead of Sasuke there, it woulda been a blowout victory for Pain. All of those ninjas and summons combined would have utterly destroyed the 5 kages.
It's absurd, after reviewing the insane amounts of damage Pain dealt, there is no question he would have just compressed all the kages into a giant ball in the sky until they all popped. Pain is God Tier, and really, Naruto vs Pain 1v1 would have been a no contest.
I'm gonna say it now, Pain > 5 Kages. (I have a feeling I'm gonna end up writing 5000 word replies soon).
Yes, I am talking exactly about this guy. 5 Kages > Pain
1. Pain didn´t even really fight Tsunade.
2. He didn´t defeat Kakashi. Kakashi sacrificed himself in order to save the lives of others.
3. Sage Mode Naruto is still far from being Kage-level (yes, size isn´t everything), so even for Raikage etc. it would be quite possible to defeat him 3 times.
In Konoha, Pain tried his best to avoid any real fight, until he faced Naruto. He completely devastated the village, I agree. But he did not defeat Tsunade or Kakashi in battle. He could have undoubtly, but given the fact that Jiraiya wasn´t far from defeating him, there is just no way Pain could defeat 5 Shinobi of that level. Just no.
Spicy~Noodles
2009-09-30, 13:13
LoL are you serious? He DID DEFEAT HIM IN BATTLE. So your saying Kakashi didn't go all out in an attempt to stop Pain? And your saying that Tsunade going into a coma isn't the result of Pain? Kakashi sacrificed himself why? Because Pain was gonna kill Choji, therefore Pain killed Kakashi. Tsunade used her medical jutsu and went into a coma because of Pain. He completely depleted both of them. Sage Mode Naruto made Tsunade look worthless.. in fact as I recall he told her to go have a cup of tea, he's not Hokage level.. pshhhh BULL.
Oh yeah, Jaraiya was far from defeating Pain. He only started to realize things after it was too late for him. He figured out that Nagato wasn't with them but he had no idea where he was. So he was really really far from beating Pain. Please more detailed examples please. I haven't had a good debate for a while. Make it worth my time.
I wanna add this too, Pain was so badass that Danzou didn't wanna go out and help. He knew Pain would hand him his ass on a platter.
I am serious, but I´m giving up on trying to convince you.
Truth is elusive to those who refuse to see with both eyes, anyway.
Spicy~Noodles
2009-09-30, 13:26
Are you saying I'm blind? I know my Naruto, I read the manga weekly... for years. I'm giving you something to think about, and I'm making valid points. Pain defeated Kakashi and Tsunade if you are saying this isn't the result of Pain, then I remind you of the events that took place. Is that wrong? Tsunade had to use ALL of her powers just to keep people "barely alive."
Give up if you want, you just make weak points.
There's nothing wrong with having a different opinion, just be ready to LAY DOWN THE FACTS.
James knows how I roll. Isn't anyone out there gonna dish out the damage on this debate? James layed down the groundwork to making this very debatable. I'm on the Pain bandwagon, if anyone thinks 5 Kages > Pain then speak up. I wouldn't mind debating James again. ^^ I just hope it doesn't end up a flame war.
Are you saying I'm blind? I know my Naruto, I read the manga weekly... for years. I'm giving you something to think about, and I'm making valid points. Pain defeated Kakashi and Tsunade if you are saying this isn't the result of Pain, then I remind you of the events that took place. Is that wrong? Tsunade had to use ALL of her powers just to keep people "barely alive."
Give up if you want, you just make weak points.
There's nothing wrong with having a different opinion, just be ready to LAY DOWN THE FACTS. James knows how I roll.
gangstaaaaaaaaaa
Are you saying I'm blind? I know my Naruto, I read the manga weekly... for years. I'm giving you something to think about, and I'm making valid points. Pain defeated Kakashi and Tsunade if you are saying this isn't the result of Pain, then I remind you of the events that took place. Is that wrong? Tsunade had to use ALL of her powers just to keep people "barely alive."
Give up if you want, you just make weak points.
There's nothing wrong with having a different opinion, just be ready to LAY DOWN THE FACTS. James knows how I roll.
Okay you set me on fire...
/discuss mode enabled
No you´re not blind, but you only see what Pain did, not what he had to do in order to judge his succes rate against 5 Kages.
Of course Tsunade´s condition and Kakashi´s death was the result of Pain, you´re absolutely right. But beware, here come the facts you wanted so badly:
- Kakashi died because he saved the lives of others
- Tsunade almost died because she saved the lives of others
- None of the Kages at the meeting would die trying to save one of the others
- So until Pain defeats Kakashi and Tsunade in a fight withouth nuisances like weak villagers who have to be saved, we can´t say he could defeat let alone two Kage-level ninjas at the same time.
All the above is fact. I bet you agree with me on that. Now it comes down to opinion:
- Since Jiraiya gave Pain hell, I refuse to believe he´d survive 5 Kages.
AuroraFlash
2009-09-30, 13:41
^Sasuke can stretch his Chidori Eisō up to 10 meteres (remeber when he attacked Orochimaru from at least 5 meters away, or when he cut through the Hachibi's tail, etc). So, distance is not truly a factor.
And yes, Gaara's sand was being consumed, it's just that there is so much of it, and it can be readily resupplied from the Earth around Gaara, that makes the defense one of the best, if not the best, against Susano'o.
---
That being said, new info is out.
The Mizukage can use 3 elements (Earth, Water, and Fire) which is how she is able to use what appears to be 2 bloodlines (considering that having 2 bloodlines makes little sense, I am going to assume that she just has the ability to use 2 distinct elemental combination). The Mizukage's attacks are so strong, she is litteraly takng apart he half-formed Susano'o defense.
Madara does appear before the Kages (the Raikage yells at him) in order to discuss his plan. So, next chapter should be the final chapter of this arc.
Also, Sasuke seems to have a "tender" flashback (of some sort) concerning Juugo, Suigetsu, and Naruto.
I see, ... Yoton was called a kekkei genkai after all, so I guess this really is a kekkei genkai while the other thing is simply a mix of elements.
Oh, I wonder if Madara is as talkative towards Kages as he is towards Naruto and I wonder what's really on Sasuke's mind. He has been watched by Zetsu, so anything could just be show.
Are you saying I'm blind? I know my Naruto, I read the manga weekly... for years. I'm giving you something to think about, and I'm making valid points. Pain defeated Kakashi and Tsunade if you are saying this isn't the result of Pain, then I remind you of the events that took place. Is that wrong? Tsunade had to use ALL of her powers just to keep people "barely alive."
Give up if you want, you just make weak points.
There's nothing wrong with having a different opinion, just be ready to LAY DOWN THE FACTS.
James knows how I roll. Isn't anyone out there gonna dish out the damage on this debate? James layed down the groundwork to making this very debatable. I'm on the Pain bandwagon, if anyone thinks 5 Kages > Pain then speak up. I wouldn't mind debating James again. ^^ I just hope it doesn't end up a flame war.
5 Kages > Pain
If you're going to use the example of the destruction of Konoha to justify Pain's powers...hmm...I'm pretty sure if all 5 Kages joined up they could do the same thing...I mean if Kishi really used logic in battle...Gaara alone could devastate Konoha by himself, by just lifting up a large amount of sand like he did in his Deidara fight and dump it on Konoha... killing and destroying most of konoha...It'll take him awhile to carry that much sand, since it is heavy on chakra...but still effective...really...each of the kages possess the ability to defeat one of pain's bodies, the only one they may have difficulty with is the magnet one...or whatever...which I'm sure they could defeat if they make use of the small time interval...
^And yes, Gaara's sand was being consumed, it's just that there is so much of it, and it can be readily resupplied from the Earth around Gaara, that makes the defense one of the best, if not the best, against Susano'o..
That is where Chidory is efective, in comparison, Chidory works like a bullet whereas Amaterasu as Acid.
James knows how I roll. Isn't anyone out there gonna dish out the damage on this debate? James layed down the groundwork to making this very debatable. I'm on the Pain bandwagon, if anyone thinks 5 Kages > Pain then speak up. I wouldn't mind debating James again. ^^ I just hope it doesn't end up a flame war.
Wow, crazy conversation. Let's get back on topic...after these messages ;)
Of course 5 kages > Pain. Pain works best on 2 vs 1 situations like Kakashi and Jiaraya. Of course Kakashi had allies too. But the fact of the matter Pain mentioned that Jiaraya could've defeated him if he knew the secret...and at that moment Jiaraya would've been prepared and not get his arm cut off etc...
Now we're talking about 5 Kages! They are Kages for a reason! They would analyze Pain in battle and figure him out...not to mention Pain works best when it's 2vs1 unless it's just God Pain.
Once they figure him out, Pain is doomed. Gaara himself could wipe out most of the Pain's. I'm sure Raikage could think of something though he'd have trouble with God Pain, but remember Naruto was all close range granted he had bushins.
Honestly 5 kages vs Pain is no contest, 5 kages would win, maybe 2 kages die and all of them injured, but it really isn't a contest...
If all the kages knew the secret of double MS and susanoo, they would have easily defeated Sasuke too. Raikage could have dealt the finishing blow himself and Kishi just wanted to illustrate that by Gaara stopping him and allowing Sasuke to perform a fuller Susanoo. True Raikage would've lost an arm and a leg, but his hand went through Susanoo's rib cage and got Sasuke pretty good.
The 5 Kages if they worked together could defeat anybody, even Pain, even Madara. But they are still learning on the secrets on what's going on...
That Other Ninja
2009-09-30, 13:55
I'd have to agree that Pain pretty much handled Kakashi. Even if he was hindered by having to protect someone else, were he free to fight him without concern he'd still probably lose.
Naruto won because of his Sage Mode, which is the ultimate suped up power up so far in the entire series. And I mean a literal power up in the form of achieving an enhanced state, not just having a jutsu or Kekkei Genkai (unless its one that makes you go Hulk or something) that grants you mucho power. CS2 form was comparable but weaker. That just says how useful it is and powerful, and the fact that he can do it alone and at a perfect state with his limitless supply of clones well we should all be clear on Naruto's level. He is beyond Kage level strength/power. His mentality however is another argument.
And Tsunade is just as well no match for Pain. Jiraiya was unable to defeat him while its logical to assume he was stronger than she is. She might be able to take out two bodies though. And you will claim "oh but he didn't know his secret, if he did Jiraiya would've~" well that holds true for anybody, for everyone has a weakness and if you knew what Sasuke's MS weaknesses were or Naruto's Sage Mode clone reliance was you too could make that your advantage but being omniscient is relegated for American comics.
That being said... Pain was > Kage level to the extent of what we've seen as far as people actually holding the title is concerned. Tsunade is rather weak. Judging by the way Sasuke vs the Kage's so far has been depicted, we can say they aren't the strongest of Kage's for Sasuke is pretty much an imperfect Itachi (for now).
That doesn't mean a Kage can't be stronger or even the strongest. It just means the title of Kage isn't very rigid in its depiction of strength (guess who's to blame for that?).
Thusly, Pain, Naruto & Sasuke are all > Kage level. For Kage level is impressive but clearly not up to snuff when comparing the major villains like Pain and Madara. Not unless you're talking about Hashirama, Sarutobi during his prime or Minato.
However, that isn't to say Kakashi is weak. He will get stronger as well and when his use of MS becomes proficient he too will elevate.
But we should all acknowledge too that Kishimoto's portrayal of power levels and tiers of strength are VERY obscured by his own lack of sense. It is aggravating and he needs to tighten up his editing because his sloppiness is abundant. The man can write a fun mango though, sloppy as it is.
To summarize: Pain > 5 Kage's individually and Perhaps 2 MAYBE 3 (cutting it close) Kage's at once. Pain > all 5 Kage's simultaneously? No way.
Spicy~Noodles
2009-09-30, 14:08
Nice one Sean, and you would be right. Gaara could cause similar damage with the techniques he has. Pain can revive destroyed Pain bodies though. I still don't think Gaara could kill as many ninjas as Pain did with those techniques because he couldn't do that type of damage instantly. Some Ninjas would manage to find safety, safely. While Pain did this instantly, no warning time. He basically pulled a Hiroshima on Konoha.
And with God Pain, his techniques nullify just about any technique. Chibaku Tensei, how do you run away from that? The time interval thing seemed to be something Pain prepared for people to understand it. He always had some type of answer for someone trying to attack his momentary opening.
Not only did he destroy a lot of things, top tier ninjas, Kakashi, Tsunade, Sage Naruto 3x and top tier summons Gamabunta and all the frogs got tossed up by Pain. And this is after the destruction.
To top it all off, he pwnted kyubi all the way to 8 tails. 2 of 3 Legendary Sannin fell victim to Pain. ~He could do it. Pain is the Michael Jordan of Naruto.
Hey Spicy don´t you ignore my post, you wanted a discussion:
Okay you set me on fire...
/discuss mode enabled
No you´re not blind, but you only see what Pain did, not what he had to do in order to judge his succes rate against 5 Kages.
Of course Tsunade´s condition and Kakashi´s death was the result of Pain, you´re absolutely right. But beware, here come the facts you wanted so badly:
- Kakashi died because he saved the lives of others
- Tsunade almost died because she saved the lives of others
- None of the Kages at the meeting would die trying to save one of the others
- So until Pain defeats Kakashi and Tsunade in a fight withouth nuisances like weak villagers who have to be saved, we can´t say he could defeat let alone two Kage-level ninjas at the same time.
All the above is fact. I bet you agree with me on that. Now it comes down to opinion:
- Since Jiraiya gave Pain hell, I refuse to believe he´d survive 5 Kages.
Cub-Sama
2009-09-30, 14:14
But we should all acknowledge too that Kishimoto's portrayal of power levels and tiers of strength are VERY obscured by his own lack of sense. It is aggravating and he needs to tighten up his editing because his sloppiness is abundant. The man can write a fun mango though, sloppy as it is.
Naruto got lucky that Pain didn't want to suck his soul out otherwise he would be dead and this manga will be renamed Akatsuki Chronicles. Pain and Nagato were considerably dumbed down just like Kakuzu so Naruto could beat them, if they fought how they showed up Naruto would be dead which is why Kishi dumbed them down.
Ero-Senn1n
2009-09-30, 14:17
You do know Sasuke had everyone boned when he summoned Susanoo and choose to not kill everyone with his Sword of Tosaka. The way I see it, Sasuke tanked attacks that would have killed him dead from Susanoo and the kick would have been tanked as well making Sasuke win the fight against Raikage, then theres Gaara, and last I checked, Chidori pierces Sand so he would have been doomed to, then theres Mizukage and the Old Guy left, Susanoo spam and there dead but Sasuke had run out of chakra so it can't be helped.
The sword is most likely not part of susano, just like the yata mirror which reflects every attack. And the reason Sasuke does not yet have these 2 godlike tools is that he would be too much overpowered and that would ruin the plot. Also in that case all 4 kages that stood in his way would be dead by now and we know that Kishimoto does not want to kill of kages like that. If someone is able to beat 4 kages then he is godlike in the Naruto world and if that person is a main character like Sasuke or Naruto that ruins a shonen manga since shonen manga can run only as long as there is growth of power ( similarily to our modern western society that cannot exist without constant growth :) ).
Speaking about these two super weapons of Itachi i wonder if the power that Itachi gave to Naruto has to do with those two weapons. If the power is specifically to defend Naruto against Sasuke and to help Naruto not kill Sasuke in their fight then it would be cool if when Naruto fights Sasuke then special twin-seals that are placed on both Sasuke and Naruto activate and the twin-seals transfer the Yata mirror to Naruto. That would mean that Itachi sealed the Yata mirror in Sasuke but in a way that Sasuke can't use it and when he meets with Naruto the mirror is transferred to Naruto. The mirror would reflect every attack on the attacker so that Sasuke will not be able to kill Naruto even if Naruto does not want to kill him.
That Other Ninja
2009-09-30, 14:31
Naruto got lucky that Pain didn't want to suck his soul out otherwise he would be dead and this manga will be renamed Akatsuki Chronicles. Pain and Nagato were considerably dumbed down just like Kakuzu so Naruto could beat them, if they fought how they showed up Naruto would be dead which is why Kishi dumbed them down.
I don't think Pain was dumbed down inasmuch as Naruto was dumbed up with his Sage Mode powerleveling that was thrown at us to chew on by the Kish.
Which is how I feel about Sasuke and his newfound MS portrayal during this last few chapters. I mean where did it come from? Didn't he have to practice at it a little? For fucks sake ;\
But again, reiterating the obvious. SLOPPEH.
Spicy~Noodles
2009-09-30, 14:33
- Kakashi died because he saved the lifes of others
But sir, wasn't Pain responsible for the lives of others being threatened, Kakashi included? Isn't it within the realm of possibility that this was all premeditated by Pein himself? Dare I say planned it? Shooting a nail into Kakashi's other eye and then attacking Choji from behind forcing Kakashi to push the kill button himself? The motive? He wanted Kakashi to make a painful decision like between him or his comrade in the past. That too must be included in the realm of possibility. Pain murdered Kakashi, cold-blood.
- Tsunade almost died because she saved the lifes of others
She almost died because she saved the lives of others, who Pain attempted to kill.
- None of the Kages at the meeting would die trying to save one of the others
And who said, they would all work together. Who knows, maybe they'd run away or hide, like Danzou did when Pain or Sasuke came.
Kakashi + Tsunade couldn't beat Pain 2v1 no nuisances. Don't forget Chibaku Tensei.
~Nothing Changed buddy, Pain is still the embodiment of the Nike swoosh ~Just do it.
"But sir, wasn't Pain responsible for the lives of others being threatened, Kakashi included? Isn't it within the realm of possibility that this was all premeditated by Pein himself? Dare I say planned it? Shooting a nail into Kakashi's other eye and then attacking Choji from behind forcing Kakashi to push the kill button himself? The motive? He wanted Kakashi to make a painful decision like between him or his comrade in the past. That too must be included in the realm of possibility. Pain murdered Kakashi, cold-blood."
Of course, but it doesn´t change a thing of what I said. (Kakashi´d be better off without weak ones on his side.)
"She almost died because she saved the lives of others, who Pain attempted to kill."
Same.
"And who said, they would all work together. Who knows, maybe they'd run away or hide, like Danzou did when Pain or Sasuke came."
If we wanna know if Pain could defeat 5 Kages in a battle, we´re already excluding the possibility of the Kages running away.
"Kakashi + Tsunade couldn't beat Pain 2v1 no nuisances. Don't forget Chibaku Tensei."
I´m not saying he couldn´t defeat them. All I said was if we don´t know how well he did against them, we can´t know how well he did against 2 Kages at the meeting.
Cub-Sama
2009-09-30, 14:41
I don't think Pain was dumbed down inasmuch as Naruto was dumbed up with his Sage Mode powerleveling that was thrown at us to chew on by the Kish.
Which is how I feel about Sasuke and his newfound MS portrayal during this last few chapters. I mean where did it come from? Didn't he have to practice at it a little? For fucks sake ;\
But again, reiterating the obvious. SLOPPEH.
I dont really think what Sasuke did is something you have to practice, he is already skilled with shaping flames and skilled with shape manipulation so the thing he wanted to try out was probably trying to manipulate the shape of Amaterasu and see if he could control Susanoo.
However I do think that the Kages were dumbed down, I mean an international criminal is attacking and instead of all 5 going in and fighting Raikage goes in, Gaara saves him. Mizukage and Tsuchikage decide to drink some tea, Sasuke busts in, Mizukage and Sasuke are seperated from the rest and Zetsu does a sneak attack then it is at the end that the Tsuchikage runs and Danzou pissed himself and ran quite some time ago. Seems to me that Danzou knew that Sasuke was coming for him after he heard about Madara being alive and Itachi dying.
All of Naruto's akatsuki fights will dumbed down because they are trying to capture him whilst he is trying to completely destroy them.
Ulquiorra
2009-09-30, 14:43
She didn't do much... so what? As forgotten as she is in part 2, she has always been presented as a strong character.
Strong compared to what? Ino? Tenten? Yeah, then she is stronger than them. It's just that we are asking for a strong female that can hold her own with the more powerful characters. Temari is not that strong and is too minor and irrelevant. The Mizukage might be our only hope. Konan might even be a strong female. And what's really the difference between Hinata, Sakura, and Temari? All exist to be wives to their more important love interests.
At least the Mizukage and Tsunade stand on their own.
Temari won in the preliminaries against TenTen
Temari won against Shikamaru (he gave up, she won by default)
Temari won against Tayuya (fatal kill)
I don't think she's weak. She's just not from Konoha, so we don't see her all the time, but she's definitely strong. I wonder how she'd do against one Akatsuki or other Kage-levels.
She had a total element advantage against Tenten and Tayuya. And Tayuya was already worn out from her first fight. Shikamaru played her like a puppet the whole fight. He lost interest in beating her and ran out of chakra. Funny how he had enough chakra to capture 8 Sound Chuunin just a short time after wards. She won in the worst possible way you could. It was like he beat her around and just got bored and let her win.
She would get destroyed against other Akatsuki and Kage levels. She's a one trick pony.
But anyway, I really want to hear what Madara has to say to the Kages. He is going to try and get them bent around his finger. I still say he wants them to turn on Konoha.
That Other Ninja
2009-09-30, 14:50
I dont really think what Sasuke did is something you have to practice, he is already skilled with shaping flames and skilled with shape manipulation so the thing he wanted to try out was probably trying to manipulate the shape of Amaterasu and see if he could control Susanoo.
Alright fine, the flames I can relent but Susanoo. For something that powerful (and it isn't even whole yet) to just manifest, I call major PSHAH's on that one.
However I do think that the Kages were dumbed down, I mean an international criminal is attacking and instead of all 5 going in and fighting Raikage goes in, Gaara saves him. Mizukage and Tsuchikage decide to drink some tea, Sasuke busts in, Mizukage and Sasuke are seperated from the rest and Zetsu does a sneak attack then it is at the end that the Tsuchikage runs and Danzou pissed himself and ran quite some time ago. Seems to me that Danzou knew that Sasuke was coming for him after he heard about Madara being alive and Itachi dying.
I had hoped for a better outcome from the Kage's but them being dumbed down as you say, which is more or less having too high of an expectation because we've never seen them before (in action) is probably the only way for Sasuke to remain on his path. I mean, perish the thought where he actually gets captured and still retains some sense of self (if thats what you can call it) and strives for his revenge even in the putrid squalor of prison or on the scaffolding of a hangman's post. That would mean Kish could write well! Laugh.
All of Naruto's akatsuki fights will dumbed down because they are trying to capture him whilst he is trying to completely destroy them.
So i'm unclear on your message here. Are you saying Naruto gets more credit then he deserves or that the overall series is flawed or what?
james0246
2009-09-30, 14:58
^Itachi's Susano'o appeared after only one day of messing with Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. Sasuke's appearing a week or more after using Amaterasu (and presumably Tsukuyomi) seems more than fair...
That being said, no new info has been released (we have about a chapter's worth as is, all that is left will be pics), though one or 2 images have been released from the new Naruto video game (it looks like you will get to fight Pain in the game :)).
Spicy~Noodles
2009-09-30, 15:01
"Of course, but it doesn´t change a thing of what I said. (Kakashi´d be better off without weak ones on his side.)"
It was the weak ones who even game him a glimmer of a hope of winning in the first place, don't underrate their value. Was it not they who set up the trap? What are you trying to validate again? Kakashi made the decision to die, all by Pains doing. 1v1 would have been amazingly worse.
I'm glad you agree with the fact that Tsunade couldn't defeat Pain but instead just took non-stop punishment from him. She couldn't even land a single blow on Pain, that's how weak she is to Pain. Pain shut her out.
I'm just saying, the kages aren't best buddies. All of them working together probably wouldn't happen. Kakashi and Tsunade are basically two Hokages, and they would get smashed by Pain.
Cub-Sama
2009-09-30, 15:05
So i'm unclear on your message here. Are you saying Naruto gets more credit then he deserves or that the overall series is flawed or what?
He gets more credit than he deserves, he is overpowered but calling him stronger than Pain is a serious misunderstanding because the whole point of Pain's fight was to capture Naruto meaning taking his soul would completely obliterate the point. Therefore Naruto had a huge advantage as he was fighting with killer intent and only at the end decided Nagato shouldnt die.
Does Naruto want to bone Sasuke in the poop-chute?
Yes, he does.
"Of course, but it doesn´t change a thing of what I said. (Kakashi´d be better off without weak ones on his side.)"
It was the weak ones who even game him a glimmer of a hope of winning in the first place, don't underrate their value. Was it not they who set up the trap? What are you trying to validate again? Kakashi made the decision to die, all by Pains doing. 1v1 would have been amazingly worse.
I'm glad you agree with the fact that Tsunade couldn't defeat Pain but instead just took non-stop punishment from him. She couldn't even land a single blow on Pain, that's how weak she is to Pain. Pain shut her out.
I'm just saying, the kages aren't best buddies. All of them working together probably wouldn't happen. Kakashi and Tsunade are basically two Hokages, and they would get smashed by Pain.
I don´t think they´d get smashed. Defeated, but not utterly. Let´s not forget the J-man vs. Pain fight. Kakashi is only slightly weaker than J-man according to the Databook, just like Tsunade.
I do think pain would defeat Kakashi and Tsunade, and thus do believe that he´d probably defeat 2 Kages at the meeting. But for him to defeat 3 is very unlikely imo, and to even try challenging 4 would be ridiculous.
However, again it comes down to the match-ups, as I stated somewhen before. Gaara´s sand seems to be ideal for disrupting the teamwork of the different Pain bodies. And I don´t know about Danzou, but his mind-changing ability could maybe also work as some kind of Genjutsu. Affecting the brain of one of Pain´s body and telling it it´d see something different than it actually does would weaken all of Pain´s six bodies at the same time.
That Other Ninja
2009-09-30, 15:15
He gets more credit than he deserves, he is overpowered but calling him stronger than Pain is a serious misunderstanding because the whole point of Pain's fight was to capture Naruto meaning taking his soul would completely obliterate the point. Therefore Naruto had a huge advantage as he was fighting with killer intent and only at the end decided Nagato shouldnt die.
I disagree. He knew who Pain was and being a fellow student under Jiraiya, he wasn't sure if he wanted to kill him or not. He claimed that he did want to but he couldn't.
And although I get where you're coming from about the intenttions and how it relates to the possible outcome, I think its generally unnecessary to get into those hypothetical situations where we place intentions on a character and decide for them how they would behave in this or that scenario that hasn't happened like when Sasuke fought Itachi before he croaked.
Because in the end there was only one Naruto vs. Pain and Naruto won. There's no two or three ways to go about it. The same applies to Sasuke and while its obvious Naruto was saved by Hinata and what have you, even if he got captured he would've been saved. Because he's the protagonist so it just gets unnecessarily "elseworld" when we think too much on these things.
But I understand a desire to think about these things because again, its the Kish's fault for creating these kinds of fights and leaving the objectivity of strength power levels ambiguous. Sigh, its irritating.
james0246
2009-09-30, 15:15
@zGoten: Your confusing stats with actual abilities. Kakashi is still significantly weaker than Jiraiya, and Tsunade has never fought anyone, so I have no idea what her strength really is...
That Other Ninja
2009-09-30, 15:17
^You replying to me or... ?
james0246
2009-09-30, 15:18
^No, we just happened to post at the same time...
That Other Ninja
2009-09-30, 15:21
^Gosh we're like so on cue like awmygawd, we're twins James! TWINS! *arm-in-arm* :D
^Your confusing stats with actual abilities. Kakashi is still significantly weaker than Jiraiya, and Tsunade has never fought anyone, so I have no idea what her strength really is...
Well then would you please explain to me in which way you interpret the stats of the Databook, and how they differ from abilities?
To me it´s as simple as:
Jiraiya: 35,5 statpoints overall
is slightly better than
Kakashi: 35 statpoints overall
As for Tsunade, I don´t know her strengths exactly, that´s why I´m going by the databook. She could, however, have certain abilities that would be especially helpful against Pain, but I doubt it.
Spicy~Noodles
2009-09-30, 15:32
Kakashi was owned, quite easily actually, really Pain didn't break a sweat. Considering afterwards he had enough power to obliterate konoha, and fight Sage mode Naruto x3, 8 tails kyubi, etc.
J-man didn't push Pain to his limits. Pain is 6 ninjas + 1 (I'll let you think about it.) if all but God Pain are destroyed then he becomes (1n x 6) + 1.
Pain's Shinra tensei can attack all 5 kages at once. It can attack a huge area. Killing all FIVE at once wouldn't be far from ridiculous. Pain could use Gaara's own sand against him. Probably stuff it straight up Garaa's ass.
Keep reading that data book buddy, you'll need it as you have no valid points.
Kakashi was owned, quite easily actually, really Pain didn't a sweat. Considering afterwards he had enough power to obliterate konoha, and fight Sage mode Naruto x3, 8 tails kyubi, etc.
J-man didn't push Pain to his limits. Pain is 6 ninjas + 1 (I'll let you think about it.) if all but God Pain are destroyed then he becomes (1n x 6) + 1.
Pain's Shinra tensei can attack all 5 kages at once. It can attack a huge area. Killing all FIVE at once would be far from ridiculous. Pain could use Gaara's own sand against him. Probably stuff it straight up Garaa's ass.
Gaara would survive it, maybe barely, but his sand´d shield him. Raikage is supposed to be almost as fast as Minato, so he´d simply outrun the explosion, I don´t know about the others though. Raikage could take Danzou with him or something.^^
james0246
2009-09-30, 15:36
^Because, just using stats, Naruto would never be able to have defeated Kakuzu, let alone Pain (considering that both dwarf his statistical representation (though Pain/Nagato is assumed to dwarf)). Stats are a tool to help understand a character, not really to use in 'versus' discussion. If you wish to continue this discussion, please use the appropriate thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=71025), otherwise this is even more off-topic than an imaginary Pain vs. 5 Kages discussion.
Spicy~Noodles
2009-09-30, 15:40
LoL ruin all the fun James :(
james0246
2009-09-30, 15:48
^At least the Pain discussion was centered on the Kages, and not Jiraiya/Tsunade/Kakashi/etc...but still, sorry for ruining the fun :).
Spicy~Noodles
2009-09-30, 16:06
Yeah, I was just disgusted with how people were downplaying Pain like hes weak. People claiming Sasuke was doing things that Pain isn't remotely capable of.
Well, this makes me wonder if Naruto will have a chance to see Sasuke.
Kyero Fox
2009-09-30, 16:19
@Alleluia_Cone's post: Maybe I am just being overly sensitive, but of all the characters to actually be defeated in this arc, I find it strange that it is the female character that gets taken down (in 1 chapter at that), and as she falls Zetsu even comments on how weak she is. Of course, I will wait for the pictures to reserve full judgement, but it is just seems weird.
so calling a woman weak means their sexist? Maybe he was calling the persno weak because they were and at the same time that person was a female, thus "That woman/girl was weak"
what if that person was a male, Wouldnt be sexist then now would it?
james0246
2009-09-30, 16:34
so calling a woman weak means their sexist? Maybe he was calling the persno weak because they were and at the same time that person was a female, thus "That woman/girl was weak"
what if that person was a male, Wouldnt be sexist then now would it?
If it was the only man in a group of women, then yes I would find it weird (though I have not used the word "sexist" (you and others have), specifically because it is such a loaded term). If you are calling someone/something "weak", then it is in comparison to someone/something else. If the Mizukage is considered "weak" by Zetsu (and she is the only one that actually falls for his technique), then yes I find it strange that the only one considerd weak (or the only one that is defeated by the technique) is in fact a woman. It just doesn't add up properly.
I would have preffered if Zetsu has taken down both the Mizukage and the Tsuchikage, that way everything would be equal and Zetsu would look like the baddest badass in all of the Akatsuki. Instead he tries to take down both, but only gets the woman, and while Zetsu still looks l33t and badass, hsi staement concerning "weakness" just makes it seem like the only reaosn he took down the Mizukage was because she was lesser than the Tsuchikage.
That being said, the recent spoilers could actually change my opinion. Specifically, since Madara is now talking to the other Kages, it is possible that Zetsu aimed for the Mizukage specifically so as to make sure that she did not reveal that Madara had been a Mizukage in the past. If this is the case, then my trepidation would instantly vanish, because there would be a valid excuse for her failing were the Tsuchikage succeeds.
Kyero Fox
2009-09-30, 16:44
Mizukage better not be taken down too easy, I am getting tired of all the weak females :heh
Mizukage better not be taken down too easy, I am getting tired of all the weak females :heh
As long as she looks good on the way down, i won't complain. :heh:
Sorry, I´ll post something on topic later on in this reply, but I can´t let it end seeming I was confusing things.
^Because, just using stats, Naruto would never be able to have defeated Kakuzu, let alone Pain (considering that both dwarf his statistical representation (though Pain/Nagato is assumed to dwarf)). Stats are a tool to help understand a character, not really to use in 'versus' discussion. If you wish to continue this discussion, please use the appropriate thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=71025), otherwise this is even more off-topic than an imaginary Pain vs. 5 Kages discussion.
1. Naruto didn´t defeat Pain and Kakuzu in a fair battle, c'mon you know that.
2. I know that stats don´t tell wether a character would win fighting another, however they do display the overall strengh of a character, and judging by that, Jiraiya is not significantly stronger than Kakashi. I am not confusing things here!
3. I barely used stats from the Databook in my discussion. All I did with them is comparing Kakashi´s and Tsunade´s with Jiraiya´s overall strength, saying that those two are about the same level as the old man. And even if they weren´t as suited for fighting Pain as Jiraiya, they would not be humiliated by him since the fact that they fought together would close that gap.
Yeah, I was just disgusted with how people were downplaying Pain like hes weak. People claiming Sasuke was doing things that Pain isn't remotely capable of.
Well, this makes me wonder if Naruto will have a chance to see Sasuke.
Noone was downplaying Pain like he´s weak. We were just downgrading him from being God to being a monster.
That´s all I wanted to say to come to a close.
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@Topic:
Hm, will the chapter end with Madara actually telling the plan or with him saying that he´s about to tell the plan (which means his plan would be revealed next week)?
so calling a woman weak means their sexist? Maybe he was calling the persno weak because they were and at the same time that person was a female, thus "That woman/girl was weak"
what if that person was a male, Wouldnt be sexist then now would it?
Zetsu doesn´t make himself a sexist in saying that. However you could see Kishimoto as one. The only female Kage at the meeting is the one who gets strucked down. And as if it weren´t enough Zetsu (who could interpreted as Kishimoto´s mouthpiece) calls her weak.
Mizukage better not be taken down too easy, I am getting tired of all the weak females :heh
Well, since the good ones hardly die in shounen mangas, there´re good chances for Mizukage to survive that stealth attack and repay it somewhen later.
So ...
Madara said there were more effective places to have the conversation about "becoming whole".
Is this now and we can expect Naruto showing at the meeting next chapter ?
It's too late for him to do anything (unless Itachi's gift activates at Sasuke's sight and mess up Madara's plans), but he should at least meet Gaara and the other kages and hear Madara's story.
Because he seems to be completely out of the loop right now. And if he doesn't show up at the meeting, there will be ANOTHER (more important) Madara story later.
^ Unless Naruto can teleport like Madara I don't see how he could just drop into the Summit from his location. These words are meant for the Kages. As some have speculated, Madara could be turning the Kages against Konoha to further his plan or trying to turn them against each other. So Naruto can't be there for plot reasons.
After Madara speaks it should be the end of this arc. So expect Sakura to reach Naruto next chapter. And the Konoha kids to be shown once again either in the Iron County near the Kages or on the move against Sasuke. I have a feeling they will speak with Gaara and learn more about Sasuke. Also we have Danzou/two guys vs Ao which seems like a setup for him to be killed furthering the call for war.
Also, Sasuke seems to have a "tender" flashback (of some sort) concerning Juugo, Suigetsu, and Naruto.
That was Ohana telling us that Naruto, Suigetsu, and Juugo are not in the chapter. There was no Sasuke flashback about them in her spoiler.
KidKoolAid
2009-09-30, 19:19
I can't believe what madara is claiming to be the plan to be true. It is just weird for him to go the cliche' villain route and start blabbering about his end game now. I like most of you believe he will spout half truths to turn the kages against konoha or make them more weary of each other.
^ Unless Naruto can teleport like Madara I don't see how he could just drop into the Summit from his location. These words are meant for the Kages. As some have speculated, Madara could be turning the Kages against Konoha to further his plan or trying to turn them against each other. So Naruto can't be there for plot reasons.
I don't see how he could do that really ...
I am sure he knows Gaara is on Naruto's side and both Raikage and Mizukage have a beef against Akatsuki.
If he wanted war against Konoha, he should not have interfered directly. The kages could have gone on their own accord against Danzou, but they won't go against Konoha if it's what Akatsuki wants, unless he genjutsues everyone.
Also, Naruto is near the summit (Team Samui and Raikage were supposed to meet at the summit) and with the ruckus, he should be on his way.
Beside, what's the point of Naruto coming to the Iron country talking to the Raikage and the rookies vs Sasuke subplot if it's to have the Raikage declare war to Konoha right after the meeting ? (please don't answer the same point as Team 7 and Team 8 chasing Itachi, I am trying to forget this arc)
I can't believe what madara is claiming to be the plan to be true. It is just weird for him to go the cliche' villain route and start blabbering about his end game now. I like most of you believe he will spout half truths to turn the kages against konoha or make them more weary of each other.
Lol...seriously...
Madara: Hey guys, this is my plan...
Kages: :confused:
Madara: Okay, I'm off to complete my evil plan...feel free to mess it up.
KidKoolAid
2009-09-30, 20:23
This arc started out well , but it soon dissolved. The few things this chapter did well was show sasuke getting stronger/eviler , Showing other villages have strong ninja's , and foreshadowing the naruto/sasuke fight. I don't like the whole Madara revealing his evil plan thing.
Here is what I am hoping to happen after this arc :
Danzo begins to plant the seeds of war and tries to assassinate Tsunade
Sasuke has the eye transplant
Naruto stop acting like a baby and begging everyone to not kill sasuke
Naruto begins to learn how to control the nine tails fox
Sasuke does something to finally jump the line to evil
Danzo locates Kabuto and get his arm/eye back only to have oro take over and return with the sharigan.
Madara reveals the moon plan to his group (and us) and reveal himself.
These are wishes
Alleluia_Cone
2009-09-30, 22:02
I would have preffered if Zetsu has taken down both the Mizukage and the Tsuchikage, that way everything would be equal and Zetsu would look like the baddest badass in all of the Akatsuki. Instead he tries to take down both, but only gets the woman, and while Zetsu still looks l33t and badass, hsi staement concerning "weakness" just makes it seem like the only reaosn he took down the Mizukage was because she was lesser than the Tsuchikage.
Maybe I read the spoilers wrong, but doesn't Zetsu attack the Tsuchikage after the Mizukage? Moreover, the Mizukage is actually engaged in battle when she is attacked. The context is very different. I don't see this is as definitive proof that the Mizukage is weaker.
I don't know, I actually got the impression she was quite strong. I'm surprised more people haven't talked about her rendering Sasuke powerless so quickly. I mean, the Raikage lost an arm, and that was before Sasuke went hardcore.
Mizukage was kicking Sasuke's ass, she got hit by a cheap shot. Not all of this series' women are weak, but Kishimoto just never lets them have any glory for long.
james0246
2009-09-30, 22:28
Maybe I read the spoilers wrong, but doesn't Zetsu attack the Tsuchikage after the Mizukage? Moreover, the Mizukage is actually engaged in battle when she is attacked. The context is very different. I don't see this is as definitive proof that the Mizukage is weaker.
I don't know, I actually got the impression she was quite strong. I'm surprised more people haven't talked about her rendering Sasuke powerless so quickly. I mean, the Raikage lost an arm, and that was before Sasuke went hardcore.
Recent spoiler indicates that everyone in the room was having their chakra absorbed by Zetsu, and Tsuchikage breaks free of the technique, but the Mizukage doesn't.
As for the Mizukage doing well against Sasuke...well he is already vomiting blood, and his eyes are bleeding, so her "defeating" Sasuke is very ambiguous. If nothing else, she certainly has some very powerful techniques and since she is not actually dead (or at least nothing seems to imply that she is dead) I hope we can see something even grander from her in the future.
Mizukage was kicking Sasuke's ass, she got hit by a cheap shot. Not all of this series' women are weak, but Kishimoto just never lets them have any glory for long.No she wasn't, Her bodygaurd dropped Sasuke to the wall and Sasuke had Susanoo protect him from the first attack Mizukage did. It was then Susanoo injured Sasuke and then his chakra disappeared,not the Mizukage.
Souten no Seigyoku
2009-09-30, 23:27
Fight is over. There is no more room for Naruto to interfere this arc, at least concerning Sasuke. He just made a fool of himself again. What he can do now is licking the shoes of the kages and apologize for Danzou's actions at the meeting.
And Madara is losing the respect I had for him. I actually hoped he wouldn't do a "I am going to reveal everything since you fools can't stop me anymore"
Where have you been?
/sigh
-The villan always reveals his master plan near the end.
-It's usually unecessarily complicated
-Instead of killing the hero without delay, he sends minions after him and...
a) the hero slowly gains the skills necessary to beat the main villan
b)if captured, the villan once again doesnt kill the hero, or makes another unecessarily complicated plan to kill him. Which invariably results in the hero escaping.
c) When the main villan finally faces off against the hero, its too late and he invariably loses.
So Madara is true to form to the standard villan stereotype.
Exactly what did you expect? This is almost always the case. If the bad guys would be sensible, heros would never win.
Exactly what did you expect?
Sharks with lazers on their heads!
Mizukage was kicking Sasuke's ass, she got hit by a cheap shot.
No such thing in the world of ninjas :)
would have preffered if Zetsu has taken down both the Mizukage and the Tsuchikage
Actually yeah, the old man should have taken a beating :(
cloak_and_dagger
2009-10-01, 09:18
I wonder who hasn't fused in his chakra into Sasuke's body.
I bet he has chakra AIDS now.
The highlight of my week :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh:
I wonder who hasn't fused in his chakra into Sasuke's body.
I bet he has chakra AIDS now.
Hmm, you would think that he would use protection.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/metalchick666/blog%20stuff/the_more_you_know2.jpg
james0246
2009-10-01, 12:06
I though Aids were good for you. They ceratinly helped Jared lose some weight...oh wait, sorry, that was aides...
Joking aside, still no pics? And on a Thursday? That si a bit uncommon...
I don't see how he could do that really ...
I am sure he knows Gaara is on Naruto's side and both Raikage and Mizukage have a beef against Akatsuki.
If he wanted war against Konoha, he should not have interfered directly. The kages could have gone on their own accord against Danzou, but they won't go against Konoha if it's what Akatsuki wants, unless he genjutsues everyone.
Also, Naruto is near the summit (Team Samui and Raikage were supposed to meet at the summit) and with the ruckus, he should be on his way.
Beside, what's the point of Naruto coming to the Iron country talking to the Raikage and the rookies vs Sasuke subplot if it's to have the Raikage declare war to Konoha right after the meeting ? (please don't answer the same point as Team 7 and Team 8 chasing Itachi, I am trying to forget this arc)
Madara is the master manipulator. He can play on the Kages own insecurities and flaws to goad them. He can reveal a number of things that he gathered against Konoha and Danzou that would make them seem like a greater threat than the Akatsuki. During Minato's talk with Naruto he said that Madara would try to destroy Konoha. He knew what Nagato already did to Konoha, but he feared what Madara could do to Konoha more. So it's a given Madara will try to wipe Konoha off the map. And there are plenty of ways he can get some of the Kages to at least see things more his way. It's all part of his plan.
The whole point of the Kage Summit was to bring about a war. Either all the villages fighting each other or going against Konoha. Nagato said there would be another war. Naruto can't be a true hero of peace unless he stops a great war.
The point of Naruto coming to the Iron Country was to meet with the Raikage and talk with Madara. The Raikage looking back at Naruto meant he already caught the Naruto bug and will be an ally at some point. We also have the Naruto and Sakura talk.
The Rookies vs Sasuke plot can go a number of different ways. They could end up the heroes of any attack against Konoha by the other villages. Then join up with Naruto to stop the war and go after Sasuke/Madara.
That Other Ninja
2009-10-01, 12:53
Hmm, you would think that he would use protection.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/metalchick666/blog%20stuff/the_more_you_know2.jpg
Bwahahahaha! :D
Sasuke needs his Denzel now.
I though Aids were good for you. They ceratinly helped Jared lose some weight...oh wait, sorry, that was aides...
Joking aside, still no pics? And on a Thursday? That si a bit uncommon...
Thank god it's been more than 22.3 years. :D
darkmaster074
2009-10-01, 15:20
Lol...seriously...
Madara: Hey guys, this is my plan...
Kages: :confused:
Madara: Okay, I'm off to complete my evil plan...feel free to mess it up.
maybe he want to tell the kages about the true story of the uchiha and itachi hell:uhoh:
or we can say madara has lost his mind:twitch:
AuroraFlash
2009-10-01, 15:49
Madara lost his mind? No, no, never! Madara is a smart politician and is forced to act hostile by a strong ninja weapon lobby. Yes, indeed. ^^
darkmaster074
2009-10-01, 15:55
Madara lost his mind? No, no, never! Madara is a smart politician and is forced to act hostile by a strong ninja weapon lobby. Yes, indeed. ^^
then we all can say
he is going to tell the kages about the true story of the uchiha
any ideas ???
Ulquiorra
2009-10-01, 17:06
Madara is a smart dude. The Raikage entered the meeting screaming "KILL SASUKE KILL SASUKE!" He'll leave the meeting screaming "KILL KONOHA! KILL KONOHA!" Just as planned.
Then we get to see these body guards vs the Konoha kids.
Choji vs. Fat guy
Hinata vs Deidara's sister
Neji vs Ao(if he lives)
Shino vs Darui
Sai vs. Shii
Kiba vs. Kankuro
Shikamaru vs Temari Part 2 :naughty:
Lee vs Chojiuro
Kakashi vs Fuu
Yamato vs. the other guy from Danzou's ROOT
Sakura vs. Karui
Ino and Tenten vs Samui
Konohamaru vs Omoi.
^That´s not unlikely to happen, but I hardly believe the Sand-nins will also attack Konoha.
ultra_dragon
2009-10-01, 20:17
i do believe Pain would have won against the 5 kages. why?
well for some bizzare resoan nobody looks behond Pain's powers(correct me if i am wrong) the guy isn't stupid he has a brain then why do peolpe find it hard for him to use it? if the five kages could think of a way to defeat him, why couldn't he? is there a limit on him or something?
he could trick the kages, he could make sure to focus on the kages that are the most threating to him (like Gaara, which people believe could use the sand against pain's body's). also it's not like the numbers are against him as well...
anthor thing i just wanted to say Pain is a god level ninja if you can suck the soul of anyone you want without them even knowing what is happeneing untill it's too late you are a god level ninja, hell he could even revive people...(and not only souls mind you, but the body as well, unlike ori's jutsu...).
Typeblue
2009-10-01, 20:21
[QUOTE=ZGoten;2674965]Yes, I am talking exactly about this guy. 5 Kages > Pain
3. Sage Mode Naruto is still far from being Kage-level (yes, size isn´t everything), so even for Raikage etc. it would be quite possible to defeat him 3 times.
Yet he defeated pain, who defeated 2 Kage level Ninja's Tsunade and Jiraiya.
Methuselah
2009-10-01, 20:26
Mmmm.. My predictions to the next chapter:
Madara: "Here is my plan. In fact, I'm tired of revenge. Naruto's last few words about "the Ninja's Way" has convinced me to finally stop my evil deeds that I've been at it for generations.
So here is what I'm going to do. I'm going sell to any Kages right here something so powerful that they are known as "The Weapons of Mass Destruction." They are called Nuclear Warheads. I've smuggled them to the ninja world from the underground Ultra-nationalist movement in a distant land called Russia. These weapons are parred with the Tailed-Beasts. So powerful that it'll guaranty results for the good or the worst. They are able to destroy a country if not handled with care.
So there you have it, have fun with them and please keep this a secret because a clan called the S.A.S might be looking for them. Oh also, beware of these "Westerners" with weird accents by the name of Soap and Roach. Good day~~"
Typeblue
2009-10-01, 20:26
- So until Pain defeats Kakashi and Tsunade in a fight withouth nuisances like weak villagers who have to be saved, we can´t say he could defeat let alone two Kage-level ninjas at the same time.
Pain is not only the leader of Kage level ninjas but he is said to possess the Rhinengan, the master dojutsu. If anything, pains true power was never shown in the manga
Hey, if you guys wish to discuss an imaginary Pain vs. Kages fight with me further, post something in the thread concerning Pain.
It´s really hard for me to resist answering right now, but I wanna behave from now on, lol.
That Other Ninja
2009-10-01, 20:33
3. Sage Mode Naruto is still far from being Kage-level (yes, size isn´t everything), so even for Raikage etc. it would be quite possible to defeat him 3 times.
Yet he defeated pain, who defeated 2 Kage level Ninja's Tsunade and Jiraiya.
Far from being Kage-level? You should reconsider your perspective on that.
You should also reconsider your perspective on what "Kage-level" is and not only you but a lot of other people here who seem to have the preconception that "Kage-level" is the zenith, the peak, of strength and power in Naruto when it is blatantly contradictory. If Tsunade is a Kage, that makes her Kage-level and she is clearly not the strongest Kunoichi or Shinobi period among her peers and those under her.
And it is not as simple as saying that she's the only weak Kage. Kage is more of a position of authority that is more often then not occupied by the village's most skilled/prodigious/genius/strong ninja. Kage does not = the strongest ninja. The manga stating earlier that the "strongest" ninja = the Kage is plainly and simply an error and a contradiction given the progression of the series as a whole.
Naruto in Sage-Mode, who was stated to have Surpassed Jiraiya AND the legend Minato by Fukasaku, is plenty above Kage-level. Plenty.
His intelligence though speaks otherwise.
Typeblue
2009-10-01, 20:36
^Because, just using stats, Naruto would never be able to have defeated Kakuzu, let alone Pain (considering that both dwarf his statistical representation (though Pain/Nagato is assumed to dwarf)). Stats are a tool to help understand a character, not really to use in 'versus' discussion. If you wish to continue this discussion, please use the appropriate thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=71025), otherwise this is even more off-topic than an imaginary Pain vs. 5 Kages discussion.
its funny how no one ever gives naruto his props. He defeated Gaara where sasuke failed. At that time Gaara was leat Jounin level
He face Orochimaru and held is own. He defeated Kakuzu where Kakashi failed. He defeated pain who could easily be considered the strongest in the naruto universe. Yet everyone loves to clown Naruto.
Anyways I consider Naruto to be like soccer, just because naruto can beat Gaara and Gaara can beat Sasuke does not mean Naruto can beat sasuke
Typeblue
2009-10-01, 20:38
Far from being Kage-level? You should reconsider your perspective on that.
You should also reconsider your perspective on what "Kage-level" is and not only you but a lot of other people here who seem to have the preconception that "Kage-level" is the zenith, the peak, of strength and power in Naruto when it is blatantly contradictory. If Tsunade is a Kage, that makes her Kage-level and she is clearly not the strongest Kunoichi or Shinobi period among her peers and those under her.
And it is not as simple as saying that she's the only weak Kage. Kage is more of a position of authority that is more often then not occupied by the village's most skilled/prodigious/genius/strong ninja. Kage does not = the strongest ninja. The manga stating earlier that the "strongest" ninja = the Kage is plainly and simply an error and a contradiction given the progression of the series as a whole.
Naruto in Sage-Mode, who was stated to have Surpassed Jiraiya AND the legend Minato by Fukasaku, is plenty above Kage-level. Plenty.
His intelligence though speaks otherwise.
The first line is not my coment, I was disputing Zgoten's coment. I do believe Naruto is Kage level
Far from being Kage-level? You should reconsider your perspective on that.
You should also reconsider your perspective on what "Kage-level" is and not only you but a lot of other people here who seem to have the preconception that "Kage-level" is the zenith, the peak, of strength and power in Naruto when it is blatantly contradictory. If Tsunade is a Kage, that makes her Kage-level and she is clearly not the strongest Kunoichi or Shinobi period among her peers and those under her.
And it is not as simple as saying that she's the only weak Kage. Kage is more of a position of authority that is more often then not occupied by the village's most skilled/prodigious/genius/strong ninja. Kage does not = the strongest ninja. The manga stating earlier that the "strongest" ninja = the Kage is plainly and simply an error and a contradiction given the progression of the series as a whole.
Naruto in Sage-Mode, who was stated to have Surpassed Jiraiya AND the legend Minato by Fukasaku, is plenty above Kage-level. Plenty.
His intelligence though speaks otherwise.
What you´re quoting was actually a quote of what I wrote.
Well, I know what Kage means. I know it does not mean the strongest shinobi in the village, and therefore does not mean the strongest of the strongest in narutoverse.
However, every Kage who has been introduced to us so far showed a certain amount of strength, experience, wisdom and/or intelligence, except Gaara. That is what I see in the meaning of "Kage-level". And that´s also why I do not consider Naruto or Gaara as being "Kage-level" although Gaara actually is a Kage.
Naruto certainly has the strength/power but not the wisdom and experience and probably not the intelligence. That´s the reason why he´d lose to any Kage, yet and the reason why he would have lost to Pain if that guy intended to kill Naruto.
I guess, since that reply had something to do with Kages in general it wasn´t all that off topic.
KidKoolAid
2009-10-01, 20:52
I love discussing pain as he is my second fav villain in naruto. I don't equate Kage title with strength. Kage seems to be a title given to someone from a villages who the villager believe that would do the best for them as a nation. This requires many things other than just strength that means there could be stronger ninjas out there that couldn't fit the criteria of another area.
As far as pain vs Kages... my thoughts are this. Pain was incredibly strong and I believe was stronger than what we seen in the manga. When he fought naruto he had already destroyed the village and many powerful ninjas(was very worn out). Would naruto have defeated pain on a 1v1 fight at full strength ? Yes , because he is the hero of the story. I do believe Tsunade or Kakashi in a 1v1 fight with pain would have been defeated. Tsunade & Kakashi would have probably been a different story(with one dying and other near death). I think the best part of pain was that he was a thinking villain. I don't believe he could take on 5 kages , but two maybe with him killing at least one of them and all his bodies being destroyed except his original.
In actuality we can not really say who would win as we have not seen any of the kages in a full on fight that has shown at least 85% of their true strength. We do not know how much power Gaara has after having his tailed beast removed , it is just too many variables. This is a topic that would be better had after some more chapters or two - three more arcs. Pain was a total bad ass though. In truth any two ninja considered to be "kage" level could have defeated pain if they knew the secret of his body.
I agree with the fact that naruto is not kage level. Simply because of the stand by clones ready to go sage. If naruto learned how to go sage for the period he did without any clones and could have fought pain with only the two elder frogs and not the other summons then I would say he was . I can't wait to naurto legitimately reaches "kage" level though.
Typeblue
2009-10-01, 21:11
What you´re quoting was actually a quote of what I wrote.
Well, I know what Kage means. I know it does not mean the strongest shinobi in the village, and therefore does not mean the strongest of the strongest in narutoverse.
However, every Kage who has been introduced to us so far showed a certain amount of strength, experience, wisdom and/or intelligence, except Gaara. That is what I see in the meaning of "Kage-level". And that´s also why I do not consider Naruto or Gaara as being "Kage-level" although Gaara actually is a Kage.
Naruto certainly has the strength/power but not the wisdom and experience and probably not the intelligence. That´s the reason why he´d lose to any Kage, yet and the reason why he would have lost to Pain if that guy intended to kill Naruto.
I guess, since that reply had something to do with Kages in general it wasn´t all that off topic.
It's funny that a guy who makes excuses for kakashi and tsunade against pain calls gaara weak because he lost to deidera while protecting his village
Gaara is strong and there are very few people that can defeat him. I believe in a one on one fight against deidera he would have won. It would take a strong doijutsu user to beat gaara in a one one one no distraction fight
Methuselah
2009-10-01, 21:26
...The way I see it, Garaa would have lost because of the sand and clay mixture advantage that Diedara pulled up right on the flight of battle. Only the cunning ultimately wins.
It's funny that a guy who makes excuses for kakashi and tsunade against pain calls gaara weak because he lost to deidera while protecting his village
I never did that. Did you even read my post?
Typeblue
2009-10-01, 21:44
I never did that. Did you even read my post?
So why do you think Gaara is weak compared to other Kages? Considering he only lost one fight. He was trying to protect his village. He didn't even use shukaku.
I have only seen Gaara go all out once (kind of) against Naruto/bunta. Against kimi - he didn't use his bijuu.
Also in the naruto world the strongest does not always win; time and time again we've seen underdogs beat guys who were clearly stronger than them
Hanzoman
2009-10-01, 21:45
It's funny that a guy who makes excuses for kakashi and tsunade against pain calls gaara weak because he lost to deidera while protecting his village
Gaara is strong and there are very few people that can defeat him. I believe in a one on one fight against deidera he would have won. It would take a strong doijutsu user to beat gaara in a one one one no distraction fight
Lets be for real here... Gaara actually had the upper hand: He was surrounded by ready made sand (that he woudln't have to waste chakra to create), the entire village who were poised and prepared to aid him attacking Deidara btw, and not to mention he was fully prepared for the battle. Deidara on the other hand, was not. Not only was he ill prepared, he fought a jinchuriki alone, which is pretty risky even for akatsuki - who usually take on jinchuriki in pairs. Deidara fought and captured his target ill prepared and alone; because he was smart about it.
The way Deidara beat Gaara could have still happened even if he didn't try to destroy the village. Read the chapter again. After Gaara tore off his arm, he took advantage of the clay in the sand by forcing Gaara to block a bomb coming straight for him, this could have very well happened if he didn't try to destroy the village. By the way, Deidara was trying to take out the village because they were poised to attack him.
Alleluia_Cone
2009-10-01, 21:49
People are forgetting a pretty important point regarding Nagato, although, it has been mentioned in passing here and there. That although he is quite powerful, the reason he was so effective against the opponents he defeated is because they did not know his secret.
More than half the battle as it concerns defeating Pain is knowing about the bodies and that the true one is not actually in battle with the others. If one of the Kage were to know about this fact, going into the battle, then they would have a distinct advantage.
So, having said that, if this discussion is about whether Pain could take out all five current Kage with the secret out, then no, that whole notion is ridiculous. The way I see it, several of the Kage could probably take him out one-on-one if those were the parameters of the fight.
And even if the secret were not known, all five Kage, working in tandem, would still easily defeat Pain. Once the Pain bodies were exhausted, which they surely would be (consider how quickly Naruto destroyed them), the Kage would figure what the rods were for and that would be the end of Pain as far as I'm concerned.
I'm actually in the camp that thinks that Pain is a severe underachiever. He was handicapped before he even reached his prime, and by the time he developed his powers fully he was basically a crippled body (i.e., the Darth Vadar of the Narutoverse).
I could see an argument being made that Nagato had the potential to be the most powerful ninja in the manga, but what he ended up being, by final count, was a skillful ninja that was not privy to that title.
Typeblue
2009-10-01, 21:54
Lets be for real here... Gaara actually had the upper hand: He was surrounded by ready made sand (that he woudln't have to waste chakra to create), the entire village who were poised and prepared to aid him attacking Deidara btw, and not to mention he was fully prepared for the battle. Deidara on the other hand, was not. Not only was he ill prepared, he fought a jinchuriki alone, which is pretty risky even for akatsuki - who usually take on jinchuriki in pairs. Deidara fought and captured his target ill prepared and alone; because he was smart about it.
The way Deidara beat Gaara could have still happened even if he didn't try to destroy the village. Read the chapter again. After Gaara tore off his arm, he took advantage of the clay in the sand by forcing Gaara to block a bomb coming straight for him, this could have very well happened if he didn't try to destroy the village. By the way, Deidara was trying to take out the village because they were poised to attack him.
So do you believe Deidara was stronger that Gaara, or just smarter?
Typeblue
2009-10-01, 22:00
People are forgetting a pretty important point regarding Nagato, although, it has been mentioned in passing here and there. That although he is quite powerful, the reason he was so effective against the opponents he defeated is because they did not know his secret.
More than half the battle as it concerns defeating Pain is knowing about the bodies and that the true one is not actually in battle with the others. If one of the Kage were to know about this fact, going into the battle, then they would have a distinct advantage.
So, having said that, if this discussion is about whether Pain could take out all five current Kage with the secret out, then no, that whole notion is ridiculous. The way I see it, several of the Kage could probably take him out one-on-one if those were the parameters of the fight.
And even if the secret were not known, all five Kage, working in tandem, would still easily defeat Pain. Once the Pain bodies were exhausted, which they surely would be (consider how quickly Naruto destroyed them), the Kage would figure what the rods were for and that would be the end of Pain as far as I'm concerned.
I'm actually in the camp that thinks that Pain is a severe underachiever. He was handicapped before he even reached his prime, and by the time he developed his powers fully he was basically a crippled body (i.e., the Darth Vadar of the Narutoverse).
I could see an argument being made that Nagato had the potential to be the most powerful ninja in the manga, but what he ended up being, by final count, was a skillful ninja that was not privy to that title.
It is really hard to give anyone in this manga the title of the strongest. Yondaime could have been the strongest but we don't have too much info to go on. Same goes for Sarutobi, Pain, Mandara, Itachi, and so on. In this manga one thing is for sure...anyone can be defeated whether through self sacrifice, brains or brawn
So why do you think Gaara is weak compared to other Kages? Considering he only lost one fight. He was trying to protect his village. He didn't even use shukaku.
I have only seen Gaara go all out once (kind of) against Naruto/bunta. Against kimi - he didn't use his bijuu.
Also in the naruto world the strongest does not always win; time and time again we've seen underdogs beat guys who were clearly stronger than them
I do not consider Gaara weak compared to other Kages. He just lacks the necessary experience and wisdom of other Kages. I´d even call him one of the inexperienced shinobi in narutoverse, since he´s never actually visited an academy. He probably knows pretty much nothing about jutsus and basic stuff like how to behave in different situations.
For example he´d maybe beat Raikage, because he can handle taijutsu users pretty well, but he´d probably see no land against more versatile ninjas like Itachi where Raikage´s chances would be far better. Simply because he knows stuff.
Typeblue
2009-10-01, 22:06
I do not consider Gaara weak compared to other Kages. He just lacks the necessary experience and wisdom of other Kages. I´d even call him one of the inexperienced shinobi in narutoverse, since he´s never actually visited an academy. He probably knows pretty much nothing about jutsus and basic stuff like how to behave in different situations.
For example he´d maybe beat Raikage, because he can handle taijutsu users pretty well, but he´d probably see no land against more versatile ninjas like Itachi where Raikage´s chances would be far better. Simply because he knows stuff.
Somehow I am forced to agree with you:)
its funny how no one ever gives naruto his props. He defeated Gaara where sasuke failed. At that time Gaara was leat Jounin level
He face Orochimaru and held is own. He defeated Kakuzu where Kakashi failed. He defeated pain who could easily be considered the strongest in the naruto universe. Yet everyone loves to clown Naruto.
Anyways I consider Naruto to be like soccer, just because naruto can beat Gaara and Gaara can beat Sasuke does not mean Naruto can beat sasukeGaara can't beat Sasuke and Naruto can't beat Sasuke currently.:heh:
Far from being Kage-level? You should reconsider your perspective on that.
You should also reconsider your perspective on what "Kage-level" is and not only you but a lot of other people here who seem to have the preconception that "Kage-level" is the zenith, the peak, of strength and power in Naruto when it is blatantly contradictory. If Tsunade is a Kage, that makes her Kage-level and she is clearly not the strongest Kunoichi or Shinobi period among her peers and those under her.
And it is not as simple as saying that she's the only weak Kage. Kage is more of a position of authority that is more often then not occupied by the village's most skilled/prodigious/genius/strong ninja. Kage does not = the strongest ninja. The manga stating earlier that the "strongest" ninja = the Kage is plainly and simply an error and a contradiction given the progression of the series as a whole.
Naruto in Sage-Mode, who was stated to have Surpassed Jiraiya AND the legend Minato by Fukasaku, is plenty above Kage-level. Plenty.
His intelligence though speaks otherwise.I'm pretty sure Sasuke with Susanoo can beat Naruto.
I still think the current Naruto > Sasuke ...
Just like Sasuke unleashed more MS jutsus (we knew he had or would have) this battle, Naruto still has to use the KSM he had when he talked against Nagato. Only thing we know about it is that it should be totally immune to genjutsu since it was unaffected by Nagato's rod.
Anyway, just saw the raw.
Zetsu pretty much owned everyone with his move. It looks like the Tsuchikage (who can levitate ? And attack with a cube of doom WTF ?) was freed by the fat guy, so Tsuchikage didn't really do better than Mizukage.
Typeblue
2009-10-01, 22:44
Gaara can't beat Sasuke and Naruto can't beat Sasuke currently.:heh:
I'm pretty sure Sasuke with Susanoo can beat Naruto.
I was being hypoyhetical when I said that. Anyways I don't think Sasuke has any major advantage over Naruto. Naruto defeated the leader of akatsuki. Pain was stronger then deidera and Oro and probably all 5 Kages. The outcome of a fight between Naruto and Sasuke is a open debate. It could go either way. We would not know until the time comes.
james0246
2009-10-01, 23:24
Anyway, just saw the raw.
Zetsu pretty much owned everyone with his move. It looks like the Tsuchikage (who can levitate ? And attack with a cube of doom WTF ?) was freed by the fat guy, so Tsuchikage didn't really do better than Mizukage.
Just saw the raws as well, and some of us (me :)) did over react.
Zetsu as badass is pretty cool though. Can't wait to see him actually fight and not just go for the Sneak Kill. It was still funny to see the various Zetsu's clinging to everyone all the while mocking them. (There was also a panel showing the black Zetsu out in the woods, but it was a little blurry so I wasn't sure if Madara was with him or not.)
And the fat guy seemed to spit out a stone golem (or something) which somehow helped to free him...and the Tsuchikage is flying :eyespin:.
Whatever the case, the chapter seems far more interesting (or at least better constructed) than the spoiler indicated.
KidKoolAid
2009-10-01, 23:45
Haven't seen the raws yet , but it seemed I have jumped the gun a bit also. There is still hope.
Sexy + Dangerous = Two thumbs up
Bonta Kun
2009-10-02, 00:37
heh well chapter pretty much went how I expect it too, was the most likely outcome.
Lets hope Toby doesn't just dash off, hope he shows us something cool!
Well chapters out.
Madara could probably bust out his h4x and own all the kages somehow.
james0246
2009-10-02, 01:11
Why the hell do characters keep thinking that Sasuke defeated Zabuza? Sasuke did jack shit against Zabuza, hell even Naruto did more against the actual person than Sasuke ever did. So why is Kishimoto pushing this angle?
...Unkess, it's simply a bad translation. Damn, I guess I will have to look it up...
Also, Choujuro's sword is rocket propelled?
The panel of the Mizukage running down a hall/through a door is hilarious in its stupidity :). Almost as stupid as having 2 kekkei genkai...
Alchemist007
2009-10-02, 01:16
Ah, Mizukage lived (good). And why's it all "Madara vs. the 5 kages" when he just stated he wants to explain his plan.
KidKoolAid
2009-10-02, 01:18
This chapter is better than the previous week. Anyway I liked that sasuke is finally feeling the consequences of his moves (seems like he was running on adrenaline). Good to see some power from the Kages and their bodyguards and the whole mizukage thing just came off bad in the spoilers. Sasuke really got his butt handed too him by her and her bodyguard.
Now on to this......................
What the heck is Madara doing ? It is like he wants them to stop him. Maybe he will trick them into doing something that they think is the right thing to do to stop him , but in reality it only helps further his plan. Anyway next week we find out what the plan is.
Ino and Tenten vs Samui
Tenten? She still exists /shot
But it looks like Mizukage is still alive (she was shown in the last page standing behind Raikage). As far as Sasuke goes he used a lot of energy, if his chakra literally vanished for a short period of time. He'll probably be better in 2-3 chapters :heh:
Struggler
2009-10-02, 01:19
The Mizukage spat on Zetsu, forcing him to break away:heh:. It looks like the Mizukage broke free on her own after all:p:D
yakumo-chan
2009-10-02, 01:23
Why the hell do characters keep thinking that Sasuke defeated Zabuza? Sasuke did jack shit against Zabuza, hell even Naruto did more against the actual person than Sasuke ever did. So why is Kishimoto pushing this angle?
it seems that Zabusa's sword is the weakest sword in the 7 swordsman.....
although I really liked that sword... because its the same sword as Cloud's(FF7)
although its broken! damn it!
it has no special powers.... unlike Kisame's Sword which come back to its original owner when stolen.... and it has a special skill which is the spikes coming arund it.....
I really want to see the full shape of the sword of choujuro....
it seems that choujuro is one of the 7 swordsman of the mist...
oompa loompa
2009-10-02, 01:29
I hope this angle hasn't been made before,(because, 1st) it has a huge amount of holes in it 2nd) I'd hate to make this point if a discussion has already been made about it) but Danzo ---> Madara? I'm only assuming this from the character designs.. they're fairly similar. Well, and the fact that they're both kind of bitter that they weren't hokage ( except Madara wants to destroy konoha (maybe - until we find out about the 'plan')) Danzou disappears and reappears as Madara?
Well, don't rip the theory to shreds, I know that kind of ignores all the back story to both of them.. It's just that I wouldn't be particularly surprised if a similar twist comes up in the coming chapters. How should I put it, I'll just throw that out there :)
Actually it was Kakashi who defeated Zabuza...not Sasuke, not Naruto. Misinformed bodyguards can assume whatever they want though, Sasuke's power remains the same. Is Danzou (and generally Hokages) the only kages without bloodline limits? Introducing three of them in a single chapter and explaining almost nothing about them is pretty bad imo, they could have cornered Sasuke with normal techniques too. Anyway, Madara comes to save the day, at least next chapter might be more talking and less trying to hit ghost Tobi :)
@^ : It had been discussed around the Pain arc, maybe there's a thread about just that...James would know:P
Alchemist007
2009-10-02, 01:35
Yeah I think it's perfect if they are the same person. To be the Sith lord Akatsuki leader and Chancellor of the senate Hokage at the same time is mighty convenient.
james0246
2009-10-02, 01:37
I hope this angle hasn't been made before,(because, 1st) it has a huge amount of holes in it 2nd) I'd hate to make this point if a discussion has already been made about it) but Danzo ---> Madara? I'm only assuming this from the character designs.. they're fairly similar. Well, and the fact that they're both kind of bitter that they weren't hokage ( except Madara wants to destroy konoha (maybe - until we find out about the 'plan')) Danzou disappears and reappears as Madara?
You do point out a nice red herring (Danzou leaving right before Madara appears, very Superman-esque), but it seems too convuluted for Madara and Danzou to be the same person. Their objectives just seem too different (Danzou wanted control, Madara wants war (or something from the Bijuu)) for them to be one and the same.
A twist of some sort would be good (like Danzou was Madara's student/apprentice, or some sort of connection), but making them the same person seems a little too strong of a twist (it was such a twist that the audiences heads were literally twisted off in confusion :)).
It had been discussed around the Pain arc, maybe there's a thread about just that...James would know:P
Sorry, there is only one Danzou (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=28583)thread (that hasn't been touched in ages), but the several Madara threads have had various members espouse the theory that Danzou = Madara.
Hmm, maybe there should be a thread just for this topic so we don't need to continually discuss it in the weekly chapter threads...
edit: the [Manga] Reemergence of Danzou (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=52995) starts with the assumption that Danzou is Tobi, so that might be the thread we should reinvest in to for the Danzou = Madara fans.
just read the chapter... and boy is sasuke lucky....? what was he thinking attacking danzou at kage summit, he had a better chance to ambush him while he is coming back, it would have made more sense.
also lol at madara that is just going to flat out tell everyone his plan. its just seems stupid. that he is not serious and just want to manupulate the kage's into his plan.
Alchemist007
2009-10-02, 01:38
A twist of some sort would be good (like Danzou was Madara's student/apprentice, or some sort of connection), but making them the same person seems a little too strong of a twist (it was such a twist that the audiences heads were literally twisted off in confusion :)).
or implosion.
just read the chapter... and boy is sasuke lucky....? what was he thinking attacking danzou at kage summit, he had a better chance to ambush him while he is coming back, it would have made more sense.
also lol at madara that is just going to flat out tell everyone his plan. its just seems stupid. that he is not serious and just want to manupulate the kage's into his plan.
What would be really funny is if he proposes "Lets destroy Konoha...together!"
oompa loompa
2009-10-02, 01:42
Mmmm yeah, the main factor that would rule out the theory would be the fact that danzou has shinsui's chakra. Frankly, I'm hoping it doesn't turn out that way - It's just that the similar character designs - The part of madaras face that was shown would almost fit like a jigsaw puzzle piece into the area of danzous face that is wrapped up. Also, I'm sure this has been asked before, but why is Madaras right eye(?) only visible? Still.. for me the Shinsui factor trumps that - it would all be a little too twisty.
Alchemist007
2009-10-02, 01:44
Well he did probably ditch the Byakugan stealer so we won't know quite so easily.
KidKoolAid
2009-10-02, 01:44
Sasuke attacking Dan at the summit was not smart at all. It seems sasuke at times gives himself more credit than he deserves. It is like he thinks to himself :
Sasuke : " Man , I am feeling extra bad ass today. You know what I can do it , I can take on all the Kages. You know why , cause I am SASUKE"
Two hours later
Sasuke : " It seems I confused myself with Itachi again"
I just think sasuke got to pumped and made a rookie villain mistake. He has some growing to do and has to realize his limitations. If he can make to the age Itachi was Sasuke will be one bad dude.
What would be really funny is if he proposes "Lets destroy Konoha...together!" Nah, that's what Sasuke would say...Madara wants war though, and I THINK he will propose the abolishment of the village system and a return back to the individual clans, to destroy the lies and hypocrisy between people and show their true nature...or something.
Un1ver5e
2009-10-02, 01:47
just read the chapter... and boy is sasuke lucky....? what was he thinking attacking danzou at kage summit, he had a better chance to ambush him while he is coming back, it would have made more sense.
He doesn't need luck when he has free heals. Karin+Juugo at Kirabee with Full Restores, Zetsu with a Hyper Potion, and Madara with an Escape Rope.
The Mizukage spat on Zetsu, forcing him to break away:heh:. It looks like the Mizukage broke free on her own after all:p:D
I don't think this is what happened.
The Zetsu that was on her jumped on Sasuke and disappeared while restoring his chakra ... Nothing more than that.
As for Danzou / Madara. It's obvious they have a link. Yamato made the link Root -> Bloody Mist and Kisame and Mizukage added the missing link Bloody Mist -> Uchiha Madara.
Not to mention Danzou treated somehow as trivial the revelation about Madara. (just an update)
I wouldn't be that surprised if one of the reason Zetsu interfered (the first time) was to prevent the kages to inquire too much about Danzou and offer him the possibility to escape.
james0246
2009-10-02, 01:55
^The fact that Sasuke leaves the room before her, and she thinks to herself that she needs to lower the acidity of her mist, also indicates that she was still being held by the Zetsu Clum Baby (before she somehow escapes).
As for Danzou / Madara. It's obvious they have a link. Yamato made the link Root -> Bloody Mist and Kisame and Mizukage added the missing link Bloody Mist -> Uchiha Madara.
Not to mention Danzou treated somehow as trivial the revelation about Madara. (just an update)
I wouldn't be that surprised if one of the reason Zetsu interfered (the first time) was to prevent the kages to inquire too much about Danzou and offer him the possibility to escape.
The problem though is that Minato has confirmed that Madara wants to destroy Konoha. And Danzou wants to become Hokage over a new version of Konoha. So it seems like their ideals wouldn't be compatible unlike say Madara and Nagato's. Danzou is a coward, but he wants Konoha to exist. Madara wants Konoha, the Will of Fire, and the Senju dead.
I think Madara wanted Danzou out of the room so he could work on the other four Kages. Two of which are proven war hawks who don't trust anyone. They could easily be manipulated. And the other two are younger and more idealistic. But if they felt their people were threatened, might be forced to act on Madara's wishes.
You know, none of the attacks hit Sasuke so you know he didn't get owned as bad as people claim.
Alchemist007
2009-10-02, 02:21
No its his own ability that's draining the hell out of him (and apparently his organs since he was bleeding from the mouth).
Apollian
2009-10-02, 03:12
Wow way to ruin Sasuke's reputation yet again Kishimoto, damn. He got beat by a chick and a old guy. Can the haters please stand up, because this is there chapter.
I think your taking the word KAGE too likely....these are suppose to be the strongest of Ninja, why would you think Sasuke would take down one or two of them with no fuss?.
You know, none of the attacks hit Sasuke so you know he didn't get owned as bad as people claim.
And none of Sasuke's attacks hit the kages either.
Alchemist007
2009-10-02, 04:24
Well the black flames did on Raikage's arm.
And the Raikage killed some brain cells in Sasuke as a result.
Alchemist007
2009-10-02, 04:30
I think Madara did that post Itachi fight to the point where Sasu only has 1 left :P
Or maybe Sasuke's MS is not actually deteriorating his eye sight. :P
Alchemist007
2009-10-02, 04:51
Now that would be haaking
Mr. Johnny 5
2009-10-02, 05:47
Well.... i think Sasuke will not be entirely blind yet... but i think in his next fight... we shall see this:
Sasuke fights..."someone" and needs to use MS again.. is losing..
Madara watches..
Madara: Luuk ehm.. Sasuke use the force... i mean use the eyes!!
Sasuke looking at Madara
Madara: ^^ Here (shows the eyes in the bottle)
Sasuke: Kakar..Madara how do you know this fusi...these eyes will work!?
Madara: I don't know for sure but it's the best chance you have to dominate the world.
Sasuke: Quickly throw them to me!
Explosion and nothing but dust......
From the dust...Sasuke rises....as a new super saiyan uchiha...
;)
This chapter is better than the previous week. Anyway I liked that sasuke is finally feeling the consequences of his moves (seems like he was running on adrenaline). Good to see some power from the Kages and their bodyguards and the whole mizukage thing just came off bad in the spoilers. Sasuke really got his butt handed too him by her and her bodyguard.
Now on to this......................
What the heck is Madara doing ? It is like he wants them to stop him. Maybe he will trick them into doing something that they think is the right thing to do to stop him , but in reality it only helps further his plan. Anyway next week we find out what the plan is.
Yeah, now I´m confused again, which way Kishimoto is laying out for Sasuke. I was totally sure, there´d be no redeeming for him, but now that we actually get insights into his thoughts and how he realises the side effects of Susanoo, I´m not so sure anymore.
Sasuke attacking Dan at the summit was not smart at all. It seems sasuke at times gives himself more credit than he deserves. It is like he thinks to himself :
Sasuke : " Man , I am feeling extra bad ass today. You know what I can do it , I can take on all the Kages. You know why , cause I am SASUKE"
Two hours later
Sasuke : " It seems I confused myself with Itachi again"
I just think sasuke got to pumped and made a rookie villain mistake. He has some growing to do and has to realize his limitations. If he can make to the age Itachi was Sasuke will be one bad dude.
Well, Sauke never intended to fight all the Kages. However, running was no option for him when he was spotted, cause he wanted to assassinate Danzou so badly. He probably had began struggling since the first time he used Susanoo and realised that he needed another plan as soon as Gaara came to help out Raikage, but of course you can´t show a weak face to your enemy.
Sasuke attacking Dan at the summit was not smart at all. It seems sasuke at times gives himself more credit than he deserves. It is like he thinks to himself :
Sasuke : " Man , I am feeling extra bad ass today. You know what I can do it , I can take on all the Kages. You know why , cause I am SASUKE"
Two hours later
Sasuke : " It seems I confused myself with Itachi again"
I just think sasuke got to pumped and made a rookie villain mistake. He has some growing to do and has to realize his limitations. If he can make to the age Itachi was Sasuke will be one bad dude.
Wasn't Sasuke forced into fighting because Zetsu revealed he was around?
Scorpian
2009-10-02, 07:41
And none of Sasuke's attacks hit the kages either.
He stabbed the Raikage with a chidori sword, and didn't attack the other kages.
ultra_dragon
2009-10-02, 07:57
Sasuke attacking Dan at the summit was not smart at all. It seems sasuke at times gives himself more credit than he deserves. It is like he thinks to himself :
Sasuke : " Man , I am feeling extra bad ass today. You know what I can do it , I can take on all the Kages. You know why , cause I am SASUKE"
Two hours later
Sasuke : " It seems I confused myself with Itachi again"
I just think sasuke got to pumped and made a rookie villain mistake. He has some growing to do and has to realize his limitations. If he can make to the age Itachi was Sasuke will be one bad dude.
lol that pobabely exactly what happened, and i just wanted to point out that it isn't age...even if he will get to itachi's age it doesn't necceraly means that he will be as good as him.
i wonder why Madara said to the Raikage that he will ahve anthor go and Sasuke?
and why does everyone thing Zbuza was so great? out of the 7 swordman he is probably the weakest.
i do hope that Madara isn't the typical villaen...telling his "plan" (i hope) will be all part of his true olan when he will fool the kages.
and what is it with ninja's telling their abillites all the time?
mizukage: oh i can use thre elements and have two bloodlines
sasuke: thanx! now i dont have to wonder about your powers!
mizukage: no problem !
ninja's are supposed to be secretive...
lonewolf777
2009-10-02, 08:02
Does anyone else think it's funny how Sasuke continues to get credit for killing people he didn't kill? Zabuza, Deidara, Itachi.... he didn't kill any of those.... and he only actually defeated ONE of em.
^Well, to be honest, he did kill Deidara. Forscing someone to suicide is as good as killng him.
As for Itachi, noone could possibly know that Itachi was actually letting Sasuke win, because noone knew what Itachi was up to, besides Madara maybe, so I´m not surprised everybody gives Sausuke credits for defeating his brother.
Zabuza...yeah, people should realise that Sasuke was only (I believe) 13 back then, how should he have defeated Zabuza, plus Sharingan no Kakashi is a well-known shinobi in narutoverse, wouldn´t it be obvious that he defeated Zabuza? Well it really doesn´t matter anyway. It´s easy to confuse things if you just overhear people talking of 'em, plus it definetaly serves to plot, so who cares.
kitten320
2009-10-02, 08:17
Does anyone else think it's funny how Sasuke continues to get credit for killing people he didn't kill? Zabuza, Deidara, Itachi.... he didn't kill any of those.... and he only actually defeated ONE of em.
Uhu, especially Zabuza @_@
He didn't even stand near him! If not Kakashi, he would be a splashed pankace... and if not Haku's kind heart, he would be stabbed to death... and Haku was far weaker than Zabuza :rolleyes:
Such unfairness...
He stabbed the Raikage with a chidori sword,.
I recall him hitting the Raikage with a chidori but it had no effect because of the Raikage's armor thingy.
Methuselah
2009-10-02, 09:56
I guess I can say that Itachi wasn't fatally ill or yet ill at all. (Perhaps a sign that Madara is lying.) Sasuke was coughing up blood as well. This is similar to that Death God technique that the Hokage used except the Susanoo depends on exposure..
It's sad to see the Mizukage fight over in just one chapter. She's hot! Although I'm surprised she literally outright told Sasuke of her techniques and elemental uses - even explained her results (Blocked off the walls with first attack).
Struggler
2009-10-02, 10:10
I don't think this is what happened.
The Zetsu that was on her jumped on Sasuke and disappeared while restoring his chakra ... Nothing more than that.
As for Danzou / Madara. It's obvious they have a link. Yamato made the link Root -> Bloody Mist and Kisame and Mizukage added the missing link Bloody Mist -> Uchiha Madara.
Not to mention Danzou treated somehow as trivial the revelation about Madara. (just an update)
I wouldn't be that surprised if one of the reason Zetsu interfered (the first time) was to prevent the kages to inquire too much about Danzou and offer him the possibility to escape.
The Mizukage spits on Zetzu (We see the effects right away. Zetsu sort of melts.)
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6781/44783836.jpg
Then the next time we see her. Zetsu runs away.
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7553/91744168.jpg
You don't think those two events are causally related?
^The fact that Sasuke leaves the room before her, and she thinks to herself that she needs to lower the acidity of her mist, also indicates that she was still being held by the Zetsu Clum Baby (before she somehow escapes).
What does she thinking she needs to lower the acidity of the mist have anything to do with it? Sasuke made a hole. The mist was going to her allies. She had to lower the mist.
Mr. Johnny 5
2009-10-02, 10:13
I guess I can say that Itachi wasn't fatally ill or yet ill at all. (Perhaps a sign that Madara is lying.) Sasuke was coughing up blood as well. This is similar to that Death God technique that the Hokage used except the Susanoo depends on exposure..
It's sad to see the Mizukage fight over in just one chapter. She's hot! Although I'm surprised she literally outright told Sasuke of her techniques and elemental uses - even explained her results (Blocked off the walls with first attack).
In a way.. she only said it to explain it to us (the viewers) because the Sharingan can understand how a technique works. It doesnt always enable to user to copy it though...or use it.
The Mizukage spits on Zetzu (We see the effects right away. Zetsu sort of melts.)http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6781/44783836.jpg
He isn't dissolving, he is regenerating and growing another head to replace the one hit by the Mizukage. (you can see clearly a second head with a second mouth).
Then the next time we see her. Zetsu runs away.
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7553/91744168.jpg
He isn't running away, he is attacking Sasuke to give him the Mizukage's chakra.
You don't think those two events are causally related?
Well no. The first "event" was a failure from the Mizukage and the second was not related to the Mizukage's actions.
Unless she can step up her game, based on what we see this chapter, a fight between her and Zetsu would end as quickly as the fight between Jiraiya and Konan.
Her acid is completely pointless on Zetsu because the damage it inflicts are inferior to Zetsu's spores regeneration rate. Even a point blank headshot was useless.
Struggler
2009-10-02, 11:13
He isn't dissolving, he is regenerating and growing another head to replace the one hit by the Mizukage. (you can see clearly 2 mouths on this page), meaning the Mizukage's effort to get rid of Zetsu is completely pointless.
He isn't running away, he is attacking Sasuke to give him the Mizukage's chakra.
On second inspection, it looks like one head went for Sasuke and one head stayed with the Mizukage. I guess the spit may not have worked.
But everything in room is melting: this includes the wall and Zetsu. It looks like the acidic mist got zetsu. He became a puddle:
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9751/95584650.jpg
She escaped by herself. The result is the same.
AuroraFlash
2009-10-02, 11:15
The plot seemed so very short to me. It was like only few things happening and a lot of flashy pictures, but I wonder why Madara talks even to the Kages. Maybe he wants to see them desparate as they can't hit him and he has nearly achieved everything he wants.
Now he saved Sasuke, who looks pathetic compared with Madara once again. Mizukage is quite a fight. I wonder why the swordsman mentioned Zabusa was killed by Sasuke, that's so not true.
_____
Acid might quite work on Zetsu as he is some plant-like guy. Acid should be stopped by glass or crystal maybe, but in fact glass or a huge amount of water that mixes with the acid, but it would be 90% water to 10% mist, I guess.
Was that the right translation? TWO KEKKEI GENKAI? I think she wanted to say "I can use three elements... x,y,z,... so I can use two elemental fusions"...
Cub-Sama
2009-10-02, 11:19
Good to see that the Mizukage wasnt utterly defeated as the spoilers made me think, I hope instead of Madara telling the truth he blatantly lies to their faces and manipulates them as if it was a game of chess whilst secretly constructing his plan behind their backs. I find it funny that Sasuke can feel each of his individual cells aching (remember hair follicles are also cells so even his hair is hurting).
The Kages seem to all have blatantly powerful techniques which makes me wonder why Sarutobi was on top because what we have seen from these 4 are enough to make me think that Konoha sucks the hardest of all the villages kages.
Apart from Yondaime, Nidaime and Shodaime of course, also I'm still wondering about the thing with the bloodline people getting slaughtered (plot hole anyone?) so one of them being Mizukage really makes me wonder.
One final note...Zetsu > All previous Akatsuki members excluding Pain and Itachi
Scorpian
2009-10-02, 11:55
I recall him hitting the Raikage with a chidori but it had no effect because of the Raikage's armor thingy.
You need to recall again, because he pierced the Raikage's armor and his body; the Raikage even mentioned it.
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/3803/rai.jpg
There is a visible stab wound on Raikage's chest thereafter in all the panels. It looked like it had no effect because Raikage's body is in phenomenal shape - but Sasuke's attack landed none the less.
KidKoolAid
2009-10-02, 12:23
So Madara is revealing his plan..so what is it that he wants. We know Dan wants to rule the hidden leaf or a more military version on it and Madara wants war and wipe out HL completely. The questions stands what does he want ? Is he trying to recreate the battle between Uchiha and the Senju clan , split the ninjas back in tribes , or change the ninja world completely ?
I would also like to see how Madara plans effect the rest of the narutoverse that do not have ninjas.
Ulquiorra
2009-10-02, 12:27
Madara always tells half truths. Part of his plan will be the truth. But some will be lies so he can manipulate the Kages into war. Madara probably has the power to attack Konoha. But it's much more effective if he can get others to do his dirty work thereby weakening them in the process.
The Kages seem to all have blatantly powerful techniques which makes me wonder why Sarutobi was on top because what we have seen from these 4 are enough to make me think that Konoha sucks the hardest of all the villages kages.
Apart from Yondaime, Nidaime and Shodaime of course,Itachi
Hiruzen Sarutobi was the God of Shinobi. At 69 years old he held his own against the Nidaime and Shodaime corpses at the same time. He knew every jutsu in Konoha and had a ridiculously powerful summon in Enma who could defeat any of the Kages at the Summit on his own.
These Kages we are seeing right now are nothing compared to Sarutobi. Konoha still has the most powerful kages.
The plot seemed so very short to me. It was like only few things happening and a lot of flashy pictures,
Sounds like every chapter of Bleach.
Zzzz... Madara probably doesn't even need Sasuke for the damn plan.
Cub-Sama
2009-10-02, 13:05
Hiruzen Sarutobi was the God of Shinobi. At 69 years old he held his own against the Nidaime and Shodaime corpses at the same time. He knew every jutsu in Konoha and had a ridiculously powerful summon in Enma who could defeat any of the Kages at the Summit on his own.
These Kages we are seeing right now are nothing compared to Sarutobi. Konoha still has the most powerful kages.
Where did you get this from? Sure he was strong but he shows nothing to what is being shown here now: Sage Mode, Monster MS attacks, Raikage's taijutsu, Mizukage's acid, Tsuchikage's dust release which pulverizes things on a molecular level. And to add to this they haven't even been fighting for more than 1 chapter so I'm sorry but Zabuza, Orochimaru, Sarutobi all look like small fries compared to these guys.
Sure Sarutobi could hold his own against Nidaime and Shodaime corpses but had that been the real Shodaime and Nidaime, just one of them would have been able to take him out with literal ease, the fact Orochimaru was controlling them hindered them considerably.
That Other Ninja
2009-10-02, 13:08
Good to see that the Mizukage wasnt utterly defeated as the spoilers made me think, I hope instead of Madara telling the truth he blatantly lies to their faces and manipulates them as if it was a game of chess whilst secretly constructing his plan behind their backs. I find it funny that Sasuke can feel each of his individual cells aching (remember hair follicles are also cells so even his hair is hurting).
The Kages seem to all have blatantly powerful techniques which makes me wonder why Sarutobi was on top because what we have seen from these 4 are enough to make me think that Konoha sucks the hardest of all the villages kages.
Apart from Yondaime, Nidaime and Shodaime of course, also I'm still wondering about the thing with the bloodline people getting slaughtered (plot hole anyone?) so one of them being Mizukage really makes me wonder.
One final note...Zetsu > All previous Akatsuki members excluding Pain and Itachi
Sandaime was The Professor yo.
He fought Orochimaru before having his hands sealed + Shodaime & Nidaime zombies. In his youth he would've been awesome but the other Kage's wouldn't have been Kage's at the time, apart from perhaps Tsuchikage. How strong their predecessors were compared to Sandaime is speculative but I for one am not confuse about Sarutobi's martial prowess.
I almost wish we could see him as a young man.
^I´d so love to see a Gaiden about the old man. It´s not that unlikely since Orochimaru´s rebirth seems quite possible, too, and those two have some common background.
AuroraFlash
2009-10-02, 13:21
Good to see that the Mizukage wasnt utterly defeated as the spoilers made me think, I hope instead of Madara telling the truth he blatantly lies to their faces and manipulates them as if it was a game of chess whilst secretly constructing his plan behind their backs. I find it funny that Sasuke can feel each of his individual cells aching (remember hair follicles are also cells so even his hair is hurting).
The Kages seem to all have blatantly powerful techniques which makes me wonder why Sarutobi was on top because what we have seen from these 4 are enough to make me think that Konoha sucks the hardest of all the villages kages.
Apart from Yondaime, Nidaime and Shodaime of course, also I'm still wondering about the thing with the bloodline people getting slaughtered (plot hole anyone?) so one of them being Mizukage really makes me wonder.
One final note...Zetsu > All previous Akatsuki members excluding Pain and Itachi
Yeah Zetsu is one powerful guy, but I expected that from this most detailed and most mysterious character. Not even Pain's secrets have been hidden as long as his.
I hope the hurting cells have nothing to do with Itachi's disease... he was near blind and his body was like he had cancer, so it's possible the downsides of MS... you lose your eyesight and you lose your health for a magnificent power. This had to happen sooner or later. I mentioned it the previous weeks: Sasuke was overdoing it. He really is like Kakashi. Both have the same fighting style, including exceeding their limits in each and every fight.
We have a hint that Madara lies and it's Minato's word. I trust Minato unless our whole world is changed and Minato was a terrible dictator and the fiercest of all villains. No, I think Minato and Kushina were nice people. :)
Madara will play with the Kages, as they are all scarred souls. Mizukage has one bad problem with men and the history of the Hidden Mist. She has probably been prosecuted as she has kekkei genkai, maybe not. I think she's definitely gone through the blood mist battles.
Tsuchikage is an atavistic warmonger.
Raikage is no better than Tsuchikage although he's taken part in the most recent ninja war and I guess Tsuchikage has reigned in the 2nd and the 3rd.
Danzou is one bad guy. I can't say more about it. We simply know that he's up to no good and he kills frogs.
Did I forget about someone? Oh, Gaara. Who is Gaara? Gaara is the Kage who asks himself "Naruto, what would you have done?". Is he even suitable for the position of the Kazekage? I really like Gaara, but seriously, he's the Kazekage. It's not clever to rely on Naruto that much, even if he is THE REVOLUTIONARY. I was a little disappointed of Kishimoto, because Gaara deserves better than to ask what others would have done. He had been a clever guy ever since and when he fought Kabuto, he had his own philosophy. I thought that he would simply come up with something more clever on his own.
You need to recall again, because he pierced the Raikage's armor and his body; the Raikage even mentioned it.
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/3803/rai.jpg
There is a visible stab wound on Raikage's chest thereafter in all the panels. It looked like it had no effect because Raikage's body is in phenomenal shape - but Sasuke's attack landed none the less.
Boo hiss. It looked like it had no effect and didn't. The Raikage's wrestling slam landed too but Sasuke still tanked it with Susanoo (Incidently the slam was powerful enough to break Susanoo's rib and leave Sasuke a little dazed).
Are you going to count that too?
Cub-Sama
2009-10-02, 13:35
Sandaime was The Professor yo.
He fought Orochimaru before having his hands sealed + Shodaime & Nidaime zombies. In his youth he would've been awesome but the other Kage's wouldn't have been Kage's at the time, apart from perhaps Tsuchikage. How strong their predecessors were compared to Sandaime is speculative but I for one am not confuse about Sarutobi's martial prowess.
I almost wish we could see him as a young man.
In his youth he would've been much more impressive but still look at old man Onoki he is around what 100? (Just kidding of course) but he is still kicking ass without trying I mean who in Naruto can stand a molecular disintergrating attack other than Madara who is the most badass character shown.
AuroraFlash
2009-10-02, 13:46
Yes, indeed. Tsuchikage has one impressive jutsu there.
qwertyuiopz
2009-10-02, 13:58
to think zetsu was useless like konan, half of him is already overpowered
tsuchikage can FLY LOLOLOLOL?
For some reason the Tsuchikage reminds me of Yoda...
AuroraFlash
2009-10-02, 14:09
For some reason the Tsuchikage reminds me of Yoda...
For some good reason... :)
Ero-Senn1n
2009-10-02, 14:14
Was that the right translation? TWO KEKKEI GENKAI? I think she wanted to say "I can use three elements... x,y,z,... so I can use two elemental fusions"...
She used 2 elemental fusions, so i guess it can be both translation error or having two bloodlines. There's no reason to think that two bloodlines cannot mix in one person, for example if Kimimaro and Hinata had children they would have the bones-bloodline and the byakugan too :)
If Sasuke has children with the mizukage they would have 3 bloodlines :D
I still think the current Naruto > Sasuke ...
People in Naruto just became too overpowered, therefore Kishi is having a hard time to keep them alive since their attacks are all deadly. And because of that the fights became too much plot driven instead of being logical. For examle i assume the only one kage who is able to move faster than Sasuke can look is the raikage, and thus the raikage is the only one who can escape amaterasu. Gaara made a good job to use his sand against amaterasu but Sasuke could have hit him if he were fighting Gaara before raikage and was on 100% power. The other two kages would have been hit by amaterasu too. And that's not only because they cant guard against it, but because only raikage had exact information on amaterasu, he had raised his speed to maximum when he saw Sasuke turning on his MS eye. Also Kishimoto made Sasuke underestimate the raikage and his team, so instead of using amaterasu while suigetsu and juugo were fighting with the raikage and his team he was just fighting without MS. Kishimoto allowed for the raikage to activate his full power and speed, so that he can survive amaterasu. So i still don't see how can Naruto escape amaterasu, since in sage mode he cannot make 1000 clones and just hide his real body until Sasuke overuses his MS, also Naruto does not have ultimate defense like Gaara or lightning speed like raikage. I believe Kishi should give the Yata mirror to Naruto as Itachi's last genius move, assuming Itachi analyzed Naruto's weaknesses and strength he can come to the conclusion that Naruto is very good in offense but very bad in defense, so defense must be leveled up. So by plot driven fight i mean that the outcome of the fight cannot be told based on previous performance of the two ninjas, the one who wins is determined by plot even if it's not logical, so it does not matter if Sasuke or Naruto win or lose against any kages.
james0246
2009-10-02, 14:23
^Kishimoto siad once that the child of Hinata and Sasuke would have both the Byakugan and the Sharingan. Since that is not how genetics actually works, I am sure it was meant only as a joke.
It does not make much sense to have 2 bloodlines. 1 bloodline and then an elemental combination on top of that would have made much more sense.
AuroraFlash
2009-10-02, 14:24
She used 2 elemental fusions, so i guess it can be both translation error or having two bloodlines. There's no reason to think that two bloodlines cannot mix in one person, for example if Kimimaro and Hinata had children they would have the bones-bloodline and the byakugan too :)
If Sasuke has children with the mizukage they would have 3 bloodlines :D
Blasphemy! :D
So you are willing to say that Hinata and Sasuke would mix to a new kekkei genkai or the just perfect doujutsu? I guess to make something really special, Yamato should have children with Mizukage... that would add one of the most astounding kekkei genkai to her already impressive collection.
Boo hiss. It looked like it had no effect and didn't. The Raikage's wrestling slam landed too but Sasuke still tanked it with Susanoo (Incidently the slam was powerful enough to break Susanoo's rib and leave Sasuke a little dazed).
Are you going to count that too?Liger bomb didn't have any effect on Sasuke as well because the attack was brushed off by Sasuke and he still was surprised he didn't die.
Ero-Senn1n
2009-10-02, 14:48
^Kishimoto siad once that the child of Hinata and Sasuke would have both the Byakugan and the Sharingan. Since that is not how genetics actually works, I am sure it was meant only as a joke.
It does not make much sense to have 2 bloodlines. 1 bloodline and then an elemental combination on top of that would have made much more sense.
If the genes that constitute the two bloodlines are in different parts of the genetic structure then they are unrelated and they can be both in one person. So if both bloodlines are for eyes (byakugan and sharingan) then most likely they are caused by the genes that are in the same positions in the structure, so only one can be inherited. But if the bones of Kimimaro are and the eyes of Hinata are created by genes that are located in different places in the genetic structure then they can both exist in one person. It's like having the genes for two very rare diseases in case of extremely unlucky people :) Or check this link (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071012125457AAipcVw) :)
The reason why i like the idea of mizukage having two bloodlines is simple: it's stupid that Konoha gets all the most special people in the naruto world (senju, sharingan, byakugan, shino with bugs, choji with body-manipulation, Shikamaru, etc...), it is nice if Kishimoto reveals that another village has a special ninja that Konoha does not have. Having two bloodlines is really cool, and finally it's something that Konoha never had.
Wonder what that Moon's Eye plan is about.
AuroraFlash
2009-10-02, 15:03
Wonder what that Moon's Eye plan is about.
Yeah, who knows. :)
I guess it's related to some Japanese myth once again.
LOL this was 1 insane chapter :) and the previous ones had me all OMFG wtf xD.
Sasuke vs 4 kages is Drained of chakra. Serioulsy though sasuke needs to calm down and focus on 1 opponent at a time. I mean the dude didnt have any strategy against these guys like he did with other opponents. I bet the only thing in his mind was danzou cuz obvioulsy he wasnt thinking straigth.
BUt i got to give props fighting so many opponents at a time is remarkable. ANd zetsu is freaking funny xD
Murasaki
2009-10-02, 15:05
Wonder what that Moon's Eye plan is about.
I got the idea from posts above.
What if Madara steals Hinata and make her and Sasuke sex to make children with both eye bloodlines and call the "Moon Eye"??
I got the idea from posts above.
What if Madara steals Hinata and make her and Sasuke sex to make children with both eye bloodlines and call the "Moon Eye"??
Well needless to say it would be hot.
Maaaan, Sasuke needs to stop spamming that cheap ultra-impenetrable-defense hax shit! That's gay.
Cub-Sama
2009-10-02, 15:51
Maaaan, Sasuke needs to stop spamming that cheap ultra-impenetrable-defense hax shit! That's gay.
And Gaara's sand shield isnt, or Raikage's lightning shield or Naruto's uber defence and cloak shield or Neji's 360 chakra spin.
And Gaara's sand shield isnt, or Raikage's lightning shield or Naruto's uber defence and cloak shield or Neji's 360 chakra spin.
We've seen Sasuke's Susanoo save him like about 5 times just in the past 3 chapters.
And Gaara's sand shield isnt, or Raikage's lightning shield or Naruto's uber defence and cloak shield or Neji's 360 chakra spin.
No, at least not as ultra as Susanoo´s defense. However it does have it´s side effects. That kinda evens things.
Cub-Sama
2009-10-02, 17:14
No, at least not as ultra as Susanoo´s defense. However it does have it´s side effects. That kinda evens things.
Funny how the thing that protects you is killing you slowly, its an oxymoron
pizzajincuuriki
2009-10-02, 17:18
Gaara's defense has been defeated on more than one occasion. Sasuke, Kimimaro, Lee, and Deidara. NOT PERFECT.
Raikage defense just got beat by a karate chop made of the same shiz. Lightning. NOT PERFECT.
Naruto? Since when does Naruto have a perfect defense? If you are talking about the kyubi chakra that surronds him, that got beat by a twelve year old Sasuke without MS. SO FAR FROM PERFECT ITS RIDCULOUS.
Neji's perfect defense got defeated by spider webs and arrows. NOT PERFECT.
Sasuke's beats Extreme blows from super saiyan ninjas, lava, And gaara's sand magic. When it cracks, he puts more chakra into it. And yeah it slowly hurts you. But you cant be hurt outside of that So far its pretty effin perfect. . And so far, he has spammed it.
Whittless
2009-10-02, 17:20
Omg can sasuke do anything on his own? gosh now zetsu/madara have to save his butt? R u serious? Also i thought using the mangekyou was hard... Oh and whats with the new kekkai genkei, r they just like elemental combinations? I mean how does dust become some square/circle thing? Akatsuchi was pretty awesome tho. Im interested to see what the "moon's eye" plan is...
Whittless
2009-10-02, 17:21
but didnt raikage get thru susanoo with lightning armor? Also sasuke didnt invent tht technique, he stole it from Itachi!
The one thing that beats even Susanoo´s defense is patience. It doesn´t seem very mobile, so why bother attacking when one could simply hide and wait for Sasuke to run out of power.
Seems that Madara will give his speech again lol
The one thing that beats even Susanoo´s defense is patience. It doesn´t seem very mobile, so why bother attacking when one could simply hide and wait for Sasuke to run out of power.
I'm wondering if the lack of mobility could have something to do with Sasuke's lack of mastery over the ability. When Itachi used it, even though he wasn't running around like a madman, it showed a pretty advanced mobility in being able to fight off Orochimaru, and even Itachi hadn't mastered it. While it seems that increased mastery = increased damage over time, I wonder if increased mastery might also be equal to increased mobility, or even just general usability.
Methuselah
2009-10-02, 20:31
The only mobility i see is the way with the swords. You see Itachi's Susanoo "stood" and fend off Orochimaru with just the long stretched sword. It looks to me that the spirit is just for a moment's advantage. To seal away or block off the toughest of attacks. It's not made to chase around. *Like I mentioned, it's kind of like the contract with the Death God jutsu.. You sell away your life in the end.
Scorpian
2009-10-02, 21:24
Are you going to count that too?
Well I never tried to claim Raikage didn't land a hit.... I actually had their little fight 1 - 1; a tie... Sasuke hit him with the chidori sword, the "Raigor Bomb" and "Amaterasu" were blocked and dodged respectivly; Sasuke got knocked down from Raikage's strike at the end.(so I seen it as 1 - 1) Even if Gaara didn't interfere, its pretty likely they would have both died and still would've essentially been a tie. Anyway, I was just pointing out that what you said wasn't true. "Boo & hiss" @ you discounting pure canon.
Alleluia_Cone
2009-10-02, 23:04
I'm not sure whether it has to do with his mastery of the technique or not, but Susanoo's defense as used by Sasuke did not seem particularly impressive. The Mizukage would have easily killed him had Zetsu not interfered and I never got the impression that she was even going all out. Her Boil Release is insane, it's just as bad as Amaterasu and is almost unbeatable if you get stuck inside the vapor's range.
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