View Full Version : Macross Frontier Movie: Itsuwari no Utahime
BChoinski
2010-10-30, 18:06
Just watched the movie...
I am AMAZED! Tottaly blown by the animation.. From alto x sheryl action..Twice!!!
The animation is more supereb! The first fight and last fight is very cool!
the story Is more simple, logical and even more fit! Than before..
I also though the movie flowed well enough There were a couple of odd jumps that I saw as bits from differing episodes,but overall not major.
Now I like Gerwalks as much (or more) as the next guy. My favorite Valk form. Having them skim around like water bugs in combat is cool enough, but the scene with the Gerwalk walking/stalking into combat was awesome!
wisteria233
2010-10-30, 23:18
So I finally got to see the movie and I'll just post my thoughts of it here
Animation
The newly animated scenes were great, but the ones that they took from the television series stood out. This is mostly because even though the production values of the tv series are high this movie's production values are higher.
Voice Acting
The new songs were great as well, but I do have some complaints.
May'n did sing Aimo okay, but only sometimes. Other times it sounded like she was trying a bit too hard. And this movie didn't change my opinion that NakaMegu should never sing Diamond Crevasse, ever, because her voice just doesn't carry the emotion necessary for the song.
Though the good thing is that NakaMegu's voice did improve from the TV series, and I rather like the fact that he is using a more mature tone for Ranka's voice. That voice actually makes Ranka seem more her age (despite her physical characteristics), because already looks young to also make her sound too young can make it hard to take her too seriously.
Story
For the story itself I'd have to say that there are things I like about this movie and there are things I don't like. I do like the fact that they were able to bring up the conspiracy with Galaxy here, much earlier as there were times in the series when I wondered why the characters were not smart enough to actually investigate Grace. I also liked the fact that even though they were smart enough to investigate Grace still out maneuvered them, and ended up making both Cathy and Ozma look like they were the ones in the wrong (they kinda were though).
I also like the fact that they didn't focus on Ranka, and part may have also worked to their advantage because there just isn't that much to Ranka's character or her history. Once you find out about Ranka's past that's it, anymore is just too redundant, as she lived a pretty mundane life before the beginning of Macross Frontier and the only big event in her before then was the incident in with the 117th fleet. In the tv series it seemed more like they were just dragging it on with Ranka's past, its really something that should have been brought up from as early as episode 7 or at the very least episode 15, and Ranka's character suffered (even more)because the couldn't bring it up sooner. And let's just face it Alto and Sheryl's pasts are just more interesting than Ranka's.
But the movie does suffer from being a compilation in that quite a bit of info is lost. I'm kinda on the fence about how they had to change the love triangle, but I do understand the reason behind it, as the love triangle (if could have even been called that) was very lopsided in the TV series. With all of the changes the only character that seems to gain more than lose is Ranka. Besides that not much else is bad.
Characters
Now for the characters I find that the movie made a lot of changes some that are good some that aren't, and some that are a mixed bag.
First up is Alto
With Alto not much has changed from the TV series, TFS Alto is just much more obvious with his emotions and thoughts, and actually spells them out for the viewers, rather than just acting them out, and letting the viewers see for themselves. For instance I had already known Alto having problems with identifying himself in his gender role, but the movie just spelled it out for the audience more. TFS Alto is also less aware than TV series Alto. Gotta say though I liked the tv series Alto more because I actually don't like things being spelled out for me, then again this could just be because the movie focuses more on Alto.
Next up is Sheryl
Tsundere. No seriously, Sheryl is even more of a Tsundere than tv series Sheryl was, however in TFS not only is Sheryl more tsundere she also more innocent, playful and bit more shy in the area of love than tv series Sheryl. I liked the fact that they did make the change to actually have Sheryl also be survivor of Gallia 4, and also from the same fleet as Ranka, mostly because this change actually makes more sense. Though what I don't like in this like with Alto they outright told viewers what her problems were rather than actually letting the viewers see for themselves. I also don't like the fact that toned down the negative aspects of her character.
Ranka
Is the biggest change between tv series to movie. For one the movie Ranka is more mature than tv series Ranka, if only because she didn't need Alto to give her encouragement all the time, and she's actually less focused on him. Her being able to perform live was really just her remembering Alto's words, rather than actually needing the seeing the real paper airplane. There is also the fact that TFS Ranka is shown to actually have a sense of empathy with the TV series Ranka lacked, because which ever you argue tv series Ranka was never shown to actually think about the people of Frontier when they were under attack even with the death and destruction being all around her. The downside of this was the way the reveal of Ranka's past was handled, it seemed tacked on, almost as though they wanted people to take notice of the fact that TFS Ranka was different from TV series Ranka, and the fact that TFS Ranka was an improvement. TFS Ranka seems to actually strive for independence while TV series Ranka could only rely on others. But like I said before they had to make a lot of changes to accommodate for her new characterization, most of those changes to Ozma. Gotta say though I do like TFS Ranka more than tv series Ranka if only because TFS Ranka actually does show empathy to those around her. They really need to stop her hair from moving its really distracting in high tension situations, I know its for the moe but there are times when moe works and there are times when it doesn't, and trying to have a character show off their moe point during an invasion, and with the corpses of their fellow Frontier denizens around them is not the best time.
Ozma
Oh man Ozma, before you were just an protective brother who was fully understanding and supportive of Ranka if he knew that she really wanted it, and while he did feel guilty for what happened to Ranka in their past he didn't let it completely cloud his judgment. However, in TFS they gave him a sister complex a mile wide. I mean he really smothered Ranka, and jumps to conclusions never wanting to listen to others say if there is even a slim chance of Ranka being in danger. You can actually see why Cathy left him in TFS, in that his obsession of doing right by Ranka ends up clouding his own judgment and making him do wrong to both himself and Ranka. I'm actually interested in how the second movie will handle this, and Ozma with his overbearing guilt finding out that Sheryl who he put down as a spy, without any real thought into the matter is also a survivor of Gallia 4, and was the only person who had any clue about Ranka's past? In this case I actually do prefer TV series Ozma if only because TV series Ozma was actually more capable of critical thinking than TFS Ozma.
Cathy
Still pretty much the same as from the tv series no real change here. Though she now does actually have a much more clear reason for leaving Ozma, and as a female I kinda can't blame her. Ozma needs to prove himself to her in this version.
Klan Klan
Awesome as always, though now she seems to attend Mihoshi academy.
Mikhail
Same voice of reason he was int he TV series, though he's a little more blunt here, and much more willing to play devil's advocate.
Leon
Still needs a credible haircut, also obvious traitor.
SMS Crew
They're a pretty rowdy bunch. However, I like the fact that actually do behave like a mercenary group.
Overall
Pretty good movie I'd say there are some changes I didn't like though I do understand their reason for being.
The songs and the production values for this movie was great though and I can't wait to see "The Wings of Goodbye".
DragoZERO
2010-10-30, 23:51
This movie was...disappointing, to say the least. I give it a 4/10. Horrible writing all around and so many cheesy moments.
If it wasn't for all of the glorious Sheryl time, it would have been even lower.
The next movie better be an improvement and it best have a damn conclusion to the triangle.
moncikoma
2010-10-31, 05:00
This movie was...disappointing, to say the least. I give it a 4/10. Horrible writing all around and so many cheesy moments.
If it wasn't for all of the glorious Sheryl time, it would have been even lower.
The next movie better be an improvement and it best have a damn conclusion to the triangle.
4/10 ?:heh:
c'mon so sheryl value only 2-3? she could at least value around 6 - 7/10:D
60-70% from the movie is all about her..!
grylsyjaeger
2010-10-31, 06:13
I was surprised by Itsuwari No Utahime.
Most movie adaptations tend to horribly kill the charm of the original show or try to fit too much into the smaller time frame so I wasn't expecting too much from InU but I enjoyed it.
I feel they achieved a nice balance in story telling enabling a new audience to follow along easy enough whilst still showing the veterans something new too.
There were several scenes where I almost cried out like a giddy school girl in excitement. The first was the same homage from the anime where Alto fends off the Vajra in the commandeered Valkyrie like Hikaru in SDF-1.
The other scene also an homage from SDF-1 was when they copied Hayase's tactic of using the pin point barrier to pierce the enemy's hull and firing ordnance once inside. Even the way the ship rippled with explosions brought back all those fond SDF-1 memories.
Disappointed by the ending but given how the anime ended I wouldn't expect anything less, here's hoping for the Sheryl ending in the next movie!
I'll be starting my Macross F anime re-watch tomorrow night and I might even dust off my SDF-1 collection.
Finally I saw the movie and I have to say that I like it. The animation is impressive!!
These days I kept on reading about how Ranka had been leveled up to stand up more, but in the end I continue to see her too child-ish to be considerate as a rival for Sheryl. Her hair moving on their own or her twirls when she is exited. Obviously this is my personal perception. i don't like much how they modify Sheryl, I mean, now she is to much awake of the situation and the fact that her power wake up this early worries me a bit. But I understand they had to do these "adjustments" to fit all things in two hours, and I could say they made a good work and the story was not rushed. Ok , Ranka smartness was a bit out of the character, but it is a minor issue. Now I'm expecting, looking at the "false songstress" first movie title, that the story will follow the series plot. Anyways for the speculation I guess i'll go to the right 3d :)
Shikimori Kazuki
2010-10-31, 22:46
i'm abit confused about Sheryl's past ( i did watched the tv series). So, the reason she knows the "Aimo" song is because she came into contact with Ranka? I'm not sure about the time gap when she is pick up by Grace'o Connor.:twitch:
I also read wiki on her character info, so she was in the slums and gets pick up by a family?
moncikoma
2010-11-01, 02:08
i'm abit confused about Sheryl's past ( i did watched the tv series). So, the reason she knows the "Aimo" song is because she came into contact with Ranka? I'm not sure about the time gap when she is pick up by Grace'o Connor.:twitch:
I also read wiki on her character info, so she was in the slums and gets pick up by a family?
her family dead...so she lives in a slum...and picked by grace...
Von Himmel
2010-11-02, 06:47
I'm glad that both Sheryl and Ranka have the same amount of moment with Alto. Both of them are awesome, and this movie mad me like Ranka much more :D (Sheryl though, never fail to amaze me more :heh: ) At first I was like : " UHO ! Sheryl's ending flag kitta !!" and then it became Ranka shipping's moment which I was like : "What ? o.o; So it's going to be Ranka at the ending ?" and back to Sheryl...and back to Ranka again :heh:
Glad that they made both heroine to be awesome without disappointing a fan like me.
To be honest, I was actually bored at the middle part of the movie...which made me stop watching for 2 days (also mainly because I still have my assignments), but the later ending part is just so marvelous ! I didn't think that they would handle the battle scene like that :heh: At first I was thinking that it'll be full drama because there aren't so much fighting going on at the middle part :heh:
....Though, the reason for fighting with SMS going to fight Vajra like that...(aren't they supposed to think Sheryl's a spy or something) feels kinda rush for me :heh: Glad that it worked well in the end though.
Seriously though, I've heard that it's going to be a recap ! :heh: But I don't think this is a normal 'recap', there's just too many new scene here and there :heh:
Seriously though, I've heard that it's going to be a recap ! :heh: But I don't think this is a normal 'recap', there's just too many new scene here and there :heh:
It's not a recap. That was just the rumor flying around before the first film hit the cinemas. It's a new story - the DYRL of Macross Frontier.
Von Himmel
2010-11-02, 07:25
It's not a recap. That was just the rumor flying around before the first film hit the cinemas. It's a new story - the DYRL of Macross Frontier.
I see....well, it took me with surprise :heh:
Will it have different plot story ? For some reasons, I can't read Grace's motives anymore :( Things are bit...different for some reasons.
DragoZERO
2010-11-02, 07:29
This movie is a totally different storyline. Just about everything aside from the characters was changed.
Watched the movie and I must say that the TV series is way too good compared to the attempt at shrinking this story in a mere 100+ minute movie. In fact, if I didn't watch the TV series, I would have been so very confused. Wait just a second..... so was this movie actually a ruse to make fans curious about the TV series who went to watch the movie without watching the TV series? I think so. Even the CG in the movie wasn't really that much of an improvement aside for a couple of brief occasion when compared to some of the best animated episodes in the TV series. In fact, the overall direction of the art felt detached from how the trio in Macross F were represented in the TV version. If not for Grace's boobs, I wouldn't even give this movie a 5. Her rosy nipples definitely helped the rating.
Other than that, I'm not impressed, but I guess it would make a first time Macross F viewer curious about the TV series counter part and other version of Macross. Good for the Macross fanbase.
DragoZERO
2010-11-02, 10:02
Other than that, I'm not impressed, but I guess it would make a first time Macross F viewer curious about the TV series counter part and other version of Macross. Good for the Macross fanbase.
I think this would turn off anyone who is knew to Macross. This is not a good gateway for the Macross franchise.
magnuskn
2010-11-02, 17:38
Watched the movie and I must say that the TV series is way too good compared to the attempt at shrinking this story in a mere 100+ minute movie. In fact, if I didn't watch the TV series, I would have been so very confused. Wait just a second..... so was this movie actually a ruse to make fans curious about the TV series who went to watch the movie without watching the TV series? I think so. Even the CG in the movie wasn't really that much of an improvement aside for a couple of brief occasion when compared to some of the best animated episodes in the TV series. In fact, the overall direction of the art felt detached from how the trio in Macross F were represented in the TV version. If not for Grace's boobs, I wouldn't even give this movie a 5. Her rosy nipples definitely helped the rating.
Other than that, I'm not impressed, but I guess it would make a first time Macross F viewer curious about the TV series counter part and other version of Macross. Good for the Macross fanbase.
Yep, I mostly agree. It is probably down to my personal preference to longer, more elaborate storylines, but the very compressed format of the movie didn't really resonate with me. I think the problem is that our impressions are informed by the series already and the characters really didn't change very much, with the exception of Ranka.
Moreso, the rest of the cast regressed somewhat, compared to what we saw in the series. This could of course be due to the movie only being part one and we get the rest of their characterizations in part two. We'll have to wait at least until January to get some reviews on that.
SaintessHeart
2010-11-03, 07:35
I didn't quite like the way they changed the storyline, so I simply continued watching for the songs. :heh:
Does anyone know if the OVA albums are out for Ranka's "Sou dayo" and Sheryl's new song?
Does anyone know if the OVA albums are out for Ranka's "Sou dayo" and Sheryl's new song?
Both were released a long time ago. :heh:
Search for 'Macross Frontier Movie Single CMRanka' and 'Macross Frontier Movie Mini Album Universal Bunny'.
I've had Universal Bunny since it came out. I love it so. It is quite possibly one of my favorite albums of all time. Yes, all time.
They've both been out since last December I think.
moncikoma
2010-11-03, 17:57
There is not much of a story in the movie...
But very entertaining ... I liked the series more... But
I feel like the movie gives more climax and satisfaction than the tv series before.
Sinestra
2010-11-03, 17:57
I finally had time to sit down and watch the movie without interruption. As excited as i was i was pretty disappointed. If i had to sum it up i would say it was a beautiful incoherent mess even the beautiful parts are exaggerated. Since the Tv series had it spot on it just seems they tried to squeeze too much in at one time. Even some of the CG goes by so fast you cant tell whats going on that usually a bad sign.
I however did enjoy a lot of the music especially Obelisk and Universal Bunny i find it had to complain about anything May'n does shes very talented and there were a couple of good spots CG parts i did enjoy.
Seeing the Konig Monster sink an enemy battleship was one of them i can never get enough of that Mech and the closer up to artwork on the side was a nice touch, was very reminiscent to how WWII B-17's had artwork on the nose. The 2nd scene was of Skull one protecting Sheryl and the smoke trails from the missiles he had just fired lingered a bit.
Its a shame i thought it was going to be better but i think i would recommend the Tv series to someone who is not familiar with Macross than the movie. It was not a waste of time however it was interesting to see a new take on the story and the many outfits of Sheryl
DragoZERO
2010-11-03, 18:28
and the many outfits of SherylYes. Sheryl was the only redeeming and worthy part of the movie.
I personally enjoyed finally seeing Yousei put to a battle scene. I can't believe I forgot to mention that. That song was probably the most underused song of the entire series, and it's also my favorite of all of the songs except possibly Diamond Crevasse.
Foreshadow
2010-11-03, 19:59
It's good eye candy. Well that's what I thought of it as.
Very pretty. Though I would never use that to satisfy my craving for Macross (maybe as a short term fix). The Concert on the boat was just gorgeous though.
Sinestra
2010-11-04, 12:16
Yes. Sheryl was the only redeeming and worthy part of the movie.
True i do like the fact that they didnt kill my favorite sniper this time around lol.
@Foreshadow agreed the concert on the ship was gorgeous and i did enjoy the eye candy its just that with the long history of Macross fans just wont settle for eye candy we want a story, eye candy, singing, romance ect ect all of which i think the Tv series did very well this just didnt live up to the hype.
But as long as i can see Sheryl i will be somewhat happy. I think I might have to change my siggy back to her
10 good things about the movie
1) Sheryl
2) Black Usagi Sheryl
3) White Usagi Sheryl
4) Sheryl in Bathtub
5) Sheryl being silly while on date
6) Cowboy Sheryl
7) Sheryl in tight shirt/panties
8) Sheryl's butt coming out from bathtub.
9) All scene with Sheryl innit.
And finally,
10) Grace taking a shower... naked. (See, I do take notice of other things in the movie!)
Bad thing about the movie .. They decided to give Wanko a headstart several years in advance.. She still fails. HAHAHAHA. (lllﾟДﾟ)
Thus I conclude my summaries about the movie I've watched 3 times already in the past 2 days.
Have a nice day :)
I would hope she was naked while taking a shower. :D
magnuskn
2010-11-09, 17:42
10 good things about the movie
1) Sheryl
2) Black Usagi Sheryl
3) White Usagi Sheryl
4) Sheryl in Bathtub
5) Sheryl being silly while on date
6) Cowboy Sheryl
7) Sheryl in tight shirt/panties
8) Sheryl's butt coming out from bathtub.
9) All scene with Sheryl innit.
And finally,
10) Grace taking a shower... naked. (See, I do take notice of other things in the movie!)
Bad thing about the movie .. They decided to give Wanko a headstart several years in advance.. She still fails. HAHAHAHA. (lllﾟДﾟ)
Thus I conclude my summaries about the movie I've watched 3 times already in the past 2 days.
Have a nice day :)
At this stage I wouldn't actually ask for Kawamoris head if movie Ranka happens to win the love triangle. This is of course conditional ( and I mean very conditional!) on her not doing in the second movie the terrible things she did in the series and that they don't try to declare that the series and movie continuities are the same or try to merge them or something. Having series Wanko declared the winner ipso facto would be a terrible injustice to Sheryl and Alto.
So. Sheryl's diamond's crevasse makes a show in this? I need to watch this movie!
I need to watch this movie!
You haven't already? :(
Pregnant wife (with risky pregnancy, to boot) + young daughter + work = Beto not having enough time for himself.
Next week I start a little vacation, so I think I'll be able to catch up to things.
Yeah i had a feeling it would be because of family matters. Hope everything is okay on that front. :)
Ascaloth
2010-11-10, 05:43
Macross Frontier: The False Songstress review up on The Nihon Review.
[NHRV] Macross Frontier: The False Songstress (http://www.nihonreview.com/anime/macross-frontier-the-false-songstress/)
DragoZERO
2010-11-10, 11:14
I've been wondering...what is with the vampire bite during the concert? Is there a reason for that which I missed or something?
Vampires are hot?
I dunno... :heh:
John117xCortana
2010-11-10, 12:08
It turns out that even staff working on the movie were fans of Twilight.
I honestly think it was a poke at trends in some of the more recent music videos. A lot of them do just play up the sexy and some of them go REALLY REALLY FAR in terms of what fetishes they hint at. I still debate what that song actually means, but the Black Bunny just loves fetishes (I mean the outfit should have said that much, not to mention the bondage and domination she does on the White Bunny, the whip pretty much covers the other two letters) and the White Bunny is innocent, the vampire biting thing is... well, let me just tell you that vampires is another fetish.
My going theory on it is that it's two sides of the same personality, or two possibilities of the same personality, a serenade of "Hey, I might be this, or I might be this, and the only way you're going to find out is to go on a date with me, so stop trying to make me something else in your mind because private joy is temporary and the only perfect choice is me." It seems to like going back and forth, presenting the white bunny and the black bunny and then suggesting that a white bunny on the outside might be a black bunny on the inside and then vice versa.
At least that's as far as I've gotten with figuring it, I haven't spent that much time analyzing it yet.
DragoZERO
2010-11-10, 12:33
That makes sense. I didn't like the entire sequence there in all honesty. There was a lot that just felt out of place, like the bondage.
I was annoyed because I thought the "Black Bunny" was going to be a big plot point cause the title really makes no sense.
Yot-chan
2010-11-10, 12:34
10 good things about the movie
1) Sheryl
2) Black Usagi Sheryl
3) White Usagi Sheryl
4) Sheryl in Bathtub
5) Sheryl being silly while on date
6) Cowboy Sheryl
7) Sheryl in tight shirt/panties
8) Sheryl's butt coming out from bathtub.
9) All scene with Sheryl innit.
And finally,
10) Grace taking a shower... naked. (See, I do take notice of other things in the movie!)
None of this is the slightest bit creepy or weird.:D
Bad thing about the movie .. They decided to give Wanko a headstart several years in advance.. She still fails. HAHAHAHA. (lllﾟДﾟ)
Yeah...it is bad that Ranka fails, isn't it? ;)
Of course, the astute viewer will note that there are TWO movies, and thus, the creators would have to be pretty dumb to resolve the love triangle in the FIRST of those movies.
This is not to say it'll be resolved in the second movie, but still...
DragoZERO
2010-11-10, 12:37
Of course, the astute viewer will note that there are TWO movies, and thus, the creators would have to be pretty dumb to resolve the love triangle in the FIRST of those movies.
This is not to say it'll be resolved in the second movie, but still...The first movie is stand alone, isn't? The second movie will be a sequel to the TV series. Where we'll see Sheryl's sure victory.
That makes sense. I didn't like the entire sequence there in all honesty. There was a lot that just felt out of place, like the bondage.
I was annoyed because I thought the "Black Bunny" was going to be a big plot point cause the title really makes no sense.
Haha, I thought that too, but no, the Black Bunny is just a vessel for Sheryl to play to the fetishes, both in universe and in real life.
The first movie is stand alone, isn't? The second movie will be a sequel to the TV series. Where we'll see Sheryl's sure victory.
No I think the second movie is supposed to be the sequel to the first movie. Could be wrong, but I feel pretty certain.
Yot-chan
2010-11-10, 12:39
The first movie is stand alone, isn't? The second movie will be a sequel to the TV series. Where we'll see Sheryl's sure victory.
Where did you get THAT idea...? The second movie will be a sequel to the first movie.
I do hope he was joking, btw. :heh:
I do hope he was joking, btw. :heh:
Yeah same, because i have no idea why Drago would come up with such an idea. :heh:
DragoZERO
2010-11-10, 13:46
I miss-read what my foot-loving friend told me via VM. I then assumed that the second movie, being original material, would be a sequel to the TV series since the first movie was a "re-telling" and all.
Dang...how are they going to write a sequel to this? It was so bad too...I'm disappointed now.
Yot-chan
2010-11-10, 13:53
Dang...how are they going to write a sequel to this?
Four words: Tornado Packs. For EVERYONE. :D
I miss-read what my foot-loving friend told me via VM. I then assumed that the second movie, being original material, would be a sequel to the TV series since the first movie was a "re-telling" and all.
I told you the second film will be a sequel to the first, and it'll be all new material. :p
Four words: Tornado Packs. For EVERYONE. :D
This.
DragoZERO
2010-11-10, 14:02
Four words: Tornado Packs. For EVERYONE. :DIt's going to take a little more than that I'm afraid.
I told you the second film will be a sequel to the first, and it'll be all new material. :pWell, I hear "anime movie" I think "re-do" or "re-tell" or "summary" and when you said new and original I for some reason, probably my failed hope, thought it would continue the TV series.
Yot-chan
2010-11-10, 14:10
It's going to take a little more than that I'm afraid.
New songs? New story? New ending...?
Well, I hear "anime movie" I think "re-do" or "re-tell" or "summary" and when you said new and original I for some reason, probably my failed hope, thought it would continue the TV series.
To be fair, you weren't the only one...as soon as word got out that the second movie would be all original material, a lot of people started speculating wildly that it would continue the TV series. There was not a shred of evidence for that, of course, but you know how the internet is. Speculation begets rumors, and rumors beget assertions.
Same thing is happening now with the Evangelion movies. The third and fourth movies have been advertised as 45 minutes each, playing as a double feature, but some people have been wishing that each movie would be 90 minutes (and playing seperately), and some other people are taking THAT as official news...despite the fact that it isn't.
Anyway, it's best to treat the Frontier TV series as done, over, THE END. There are no plans to continue it, it's finished. For better or for worse, the movies are the only game in town, now.
New songs? New story? New ending...?
This. Oh, this.
And I haven't even seen the first one, yet. On that note, how's everyone's opinion on the Seto Otaku fansub group? They just released their own version of the movie... I wonder how it stacks up to the /m/ subs.
DragoZERO
2010-11-10, 14:42
New songs? New story? New ending...?We'll see. I was really disappointed with this. The plot was so lacking, I was sad.
To be fair, you weren't the only one...as soon as word got out that the second movie would be all original material, a lot of people started speculating wildly that it would continue the TV series. There was not a shred of evidence for that, of course, but you know how the internet is. Speculation begets rumors, and rumors beget assertions.Thanks for being fair, really.
Anyway, it's best to treat the Frontier TV series as done, over, THE END. There are no plans to continue it, it's finished. For better or for worse, the movies are the only game in town, now.'Tis a shame. A movie could have tied up the triangle perfectly since you wouldn't have to spend time on other characters with their introductions and such.
And I haven't even seen the first one, yet. On that note, how's everyone's opinion on the Seto Otaku fansub group? They just released their own version of the movie... I wonder how it stacks up to the /m/ subs.I found the /m/ to be very good. Be sure you use the finalized script, you will have to mux it in (really simple to do).
I found the /m/ to be very good. Be sure you use the finalized script, you will have to mux it in (really simple to do).
Yeah, that's kinda why I'm asking, as I just don't want the extra work. :p
DragoZERO
2010-11-10, 15:14
Yeah, that's kinda why I'm asking, as I just don't want the extra work. :p
It's really simple to do, just let it mux while you eat dinner or something.
I also don't really have a lot of extra drive space, at the moment. :p
DragoZERO
2010-11-10, 16:20
I also don't really have a lot of extra drive space, at the moment. :p
Hohoho...there is the kicker. :heh: I don't know what was changed exactly so I can't say if the changes were negligible or not. I wish the file size was smaller otherwise I'd upload it for you. I hope you have enough space for the 1080p one though. Sheryl deserves no less! :D
Definitely not for that, tho. :heh:
And I also don't have a Full HD TV at the moment, so the 720p version does the job just fine. Am downloading S_O's version as we speak. Some nice commentaries over the hubs about the subs and the karaoke. Let's see.
Four words: Tornado Packs. For EVERYONE. :D
/subscribed.
just watched the movie, the story is like totally different from the TV series
the fight scenes are good but the TV series done better with emotions
one thing did not expect is the nude scene by an unexpected person...
Yot-chan
2010-11-11, 05:55
one thing did not expect is the nude scene by an unexpected person...
I'm with ya. I totally didn't expect a shower scene with Alto.
Father Hentai
2010-11-11, 06:15
Nude scenes? D: Did I miss something in the movies?
The only scenes which branded in my brains is the cell phone vibrating between her D Cups and Rankas Hotdog micro(cell)phone D:
Nude scenes? D: Did I miss something in the movies?
Grace's shower scene.
Father Hentai
2010-11-11, 06:22
Ah... The old Lady... then I did not miss anything :p
Ah... The old Lady... then I did not miss anything :p
Old lady!?! :heh:
Blasphemy.
Blasphemy indeed. But we can't help the fact that Alto's prettier than her, tho.
Father Hentai
2010-11-11, 07:19
Because Alto uses "natural" cosmetics and Grace synthetic cells to keep up their beauty? :)
At least Michel is willing to spend a night with her. :D
DragoZERO
2010-11-11, 08:04
I'm with ya. I totally didn't expect a shower scene with Alto.:heh: I sure didn't expect that. I guess even the ladies need service. :heh:
The only scenes which branded in my brains is the cell phone vibrating between her D Cups D:Wasn't it a fish too which managed to pop out? For a split second I wondered why she put it in there but the why simply does not matter. :heh:
Sheryl's cellphone is a Taiyaki, right?
DragoZERO
2010-11-11, 08:34
Hmm....time for a Google search.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f344/GoStopBlvd/Itsuwari/shot0010.jpg
And I found some pics of some Sheryl body pillows while searching...dear god do I want one.
Father Hentai
2010-11-11, 08:38
The cell phone fish or the pillows? Anyhow, I am having mad ideas how slippy her cell phone was if it able to "jump out".
Btw. I like the green version of Rankas Cell phone. The orange one in micro mode is too much of a Hotdog style which is quite difficult for me to see as a microphone... But still it's cool :D
I think her cell phone was actually swimming. Maybe she ran out of pockets!
Father Hentai
2010-11-11, 10:30
Sorry, but for me I'm going to cut this topic at this point :heh: To fancy a cell phone in form of a fish SWIMMING between a pair of D Cup sized breasts is too much info....
And I didn't she had a bag with her? Well at least what I know some girls like to use their breasts as cell phone holder. Either to shock us boys or just because it's comfortable to know they did not loose their phone during an event...
Can't recall, but the bag probably annoyed her at the time and she got impatient~
I think it broke Ranka and Alto.
DragoZERO
2010-11-11, 10:54
Sorry, but for me I'm going to cut this topic at this point :heh: To fancy a cell phone in form of a fish SWIMMING between a pair of D Cup sized breasts is too much info....
And I didn't she had a bag with her? Well at least what I know some girls like to use their breasts as cell phone holder. Either to shock us boys or just because it's comfortable to know they did not loose their phone during an event...It's for service...Sheryl seems to provide a lot of special service to Ranka and Alto. And I say service because that's the word she uses. :D
Yot-chan
2010-11-11, 11:00
Sheryl's cellphone is a Taiyaki, right?
Yes.
hlFiv1-Rq44
Father Hentai
2010-11-11, 11:04
It's for service...Sheryl seems to provide a lot of special service to Ranka and Alto. And I say service because that's the word she uses. :D
Well, it's a nice to see . But I like more the scene where Ai-kun walked out of the laundry room with her undies and the boys were in front of the door. This is what I call a real service :cool:
:heh: I sure didn't expect that. I guess even the ladies need service. :heh:
Not just the ladies. I like me some Hime service as well. :p
moncikoma
2010-11-11, 18:36
I was hoping when her takiyakiphone jumps...
Her D-CUPs ... Also..
I was hoping when her takiyakiphone jumps...
Her D-CUPs ... Also..
Ah, but if you actually see those hopes and dreams then they won't be Hopes and Dreams anymore.
moncikoma
2010-11-11, 18:52
Sweet dreamms!!! Nyaaaannnnn zzzzzZZZ
*Ahh I see it... Boing-boing XD
Sweet dreamms!!! Nyaaaannnnn zzzzzZZZ
*Ahh I see it... Boing-boing XD
I broke moncikoma.
My work here is done.
Ah... The old Lady... then I did not miss anything :p
DIE
!!@##$$#$
:heh:
Sorry, but for me I'm going to cut this topic at this point :heh: To fancy a cell phone in form of a fish SWIMMING between a pair of D Cup sized breasts is too much info....
And you called yourself as Father Hentai ┐(￣ー￣)┌
DragoZERO
2010-11-12, 09:10
Ah, but if you actually see those hopes and dreams then they won't be Hopes and Dreams anymore.
That is so very true. It's why you only saw so much in the bath. ;)
Father Hentai
2010-11-12, 11:22
DIE
!!@##$$#$
:heh:
And you called yourself as Father Hentai ┐(￣ー￣)┌
eh. It's not good if nosebleeding starts at work :/
Finally saw the movie.
OMFG!!!
How can anyone not like this? There's (mostly good and sometimes great) music, romance, mecha pron... I mean, it's absolutely friggin' perfection on screen! Reused footage and warts and all.
Darn, I fell in love with Sheryl all over again! The three mains were superficially changed (one more than the others) and they feel fresh enough to warrant these movies. Egads, I like Ranka again - even though I still like Sheryl more. The whole bit with her hiring SMS and singing even in the face of total and complete annihilation were very nice, to me.
Not to mention her "you're the worst" spat with Alto. I don't think I ever felt sorry for him as I did back then. Speaking of the fair hime, nice fanservice there. :D
And the preview... Sheryl's smarmy smile and the last image are just... too much. Can't wait for it.
magnuskn
2010-11-13, 15:58
Well, it's not a matter of not liking it... just not liking it as much as the series. :p
Glad to hear you've finally seen it BetoJR, along with awesome comments.
But yeah what magnuskn said. I like the first film a lot, just not as much as the TV series. I still give both a 9 out of 10 though. :p
Yot-chan
2010-11-13, 17:51
Well, it's not a matter of not liking it... just not liking it as much as the series. :p
Solution: try to view it as AN ADDITION to the series, rather than something IN COMPETITION with the series.
Solution: try to view it as AN ADDITION to the series, rather than something IN COMPETITION with the series.
Yeah that's what i did. You'll never gain anything by trying to compare it with the TV series, because you'll just come away with against opinions that don't have to be there in the first place.
I'm not saying that's what magnuskn did by the way :p. It's more of a message to people that do.
Yot-chan
2010-11-13, 18:10
Yeah that's what i did. You'll never gain anything by trying to compare it with the TV series, because you'll just come away with against opinions that don't have to be there in the first place.
I'm not saying that's what magnuskn did by the way :p. It's more of a message to people that do.
True, true...
Personally, my biggest pet peeve is when people say, "But it's hard to follow the story if you haven't seen the show!" since, invariably, the people who say that HAVE seen the show. It's like, they saw the show. Then the saw the movie. Why get upset over what a hypothetical newbie might take away from the movie, if she or he happened to see it first? It's a non-issue.
Personally, my biggest pet peeve is when people say, "But it's hard to follow the story if you haven't seen the show!" since, invariably, the people who say that HAVE seen the show. It's like, they saw the show. Then the saw the movie. Why get upset over what a hypothetical newbie might take away from the movie, if she or he happened to see it first? It's a non-issue.
Yeah that's never made sense to me, after all these years of always hearing it when it comes to adaptations and retellings.
& personally even if it did matter, i could easily see someone who hasn't seen the TV series enjoying the first film. I mean no original knowledge of the cast and story is needed, because it's a retelling. I guess a lot of people just forget what that word means sometimes. :p
justavisitor
2010-11-13, 18:14
True, true...
Personally, my biggest pet peeve is when people say, "But it's hard to follow the story if you haven't seen the show!" since, invariably, the people who say that HAVE seen the show. It's like, they saw the show. Then the saw the movie. Why get upset over what a hypothetical newbie might take away from the movie, if she or he happened to see it first? It's a non-issue.
I feel the plot in the movie is much more pronounced than the plot in TV series tho...but then again, I have watched the TV series, so I really don't know if my perception is true or not :heh:
moncikoma
2010-11-13, 18:43
check imdb.com ...
The tv series rating is around 80, dunno about the movie
magnuskn
2010-11-13, 18:53
Solution: try to view it as AN ADDITION to the series, rather than something IN COMPETITION with the series.
That'd require accepting the two continuities as one, which I am not prepared to do, since the two are not really compatible at all. Too many differences in personality and story to be counted as the same tale.
If we get the same "It was an in-universe retelling of the real story", which DYRL got, then I'd be more comfortable, since I'd knew what really happened. As far as "really" is applicable to two versions of a fictional story.
Yot-chan
2010-11-13, 18:57
That'd require accepting the two continuities as one...
No, it doesn't. An addition, not a continuation.
magnuskn
2010-11-13, 19:02
No, it doesn't. An addition, not a continuation.
You have to tell me the difference here, because I'm not getting what you are trying to convey exactly.
Swampstorm
2010-11-13, 19:22
It means that both continuities are the same, and yet different. It means that the creators get to play around with different ideas than they did the first time around. It means that you get to hedge your bets and pick whichever ending you like best. It means that you'll be locked in an eternal stalemate with people who treat the alternative continuity as 'canon'. But most importantly, it means more Sheryl.
You can't go wrong with that. ;)
What Swampy said.
Also, would I be stoned if I said I actually enjoyed the movie far more than I did the first half (or more) of the series?
And I'm not really joking - the rewatch is not really helping to change this feeling, here.
Please don't shoot me.
magnuskn
2010-11-13, 19:44
Everybody has his own taste. I just happen to like the series much better than the movie.
And, for my own taste, the two continuities don't mix well enough to take the movie as an addition to the series continuity. For me it only works when the two continuities are separated from each other. Otherwise, things from the series start to not make sense anymore.
The movie is a different medium from the series. You just don't make a movie the same as a series, so really I don't think there's anything wrong with liking one better than the other. I like both equally~
justavisitor
2010-11-13, 20:47
Also, would I be stoned if I said I actually enjoyed the movie far more than I did the first half (or more) of the series?
And I'm not really joking - the rewatch is not really helping to change this feeling, here.
Please don't shoot me.
You probably don't want me to agree with you, but I also very enjoy the movie, at least on par with (if not more than) the TV series :heh:
The only little complaint I have for the movie is that they can't find a way to include Nanesse (sp) in the movie...the movie would have been more than perfect otherwise :cool:
Swampstorm
2010-11-13, 21:27
For me it only works when the two continuities are separated from each other. Otherwise, things from the series start to not make sense anymore.As a fictional work, there are no real "facts" to be found in the series. Part of what makes the movie interesting is that you have little deviations in terms of the initial setup that produce outcomes that could either turn out to be vastly different, or very much the same. Just think of it as variations on a theme.
You probably don't want me to agree with you, but I also very enjoy the movie, at least on par with (if not more than) the TV seriesOh, I don't see why he wouldn't want you to agree with him (unless you both share a fondness for bantering with each other, that is). After all, if you were to suddenly discover an undying love for Sheryl tomorrow, we'd gladly welcome you aboard. ;)
justavisitor
2010-11-13, 21:45
I never say I hate Sheryl lol...in fact, I like Sheryl...(she is pretty much designed to be liked anyway), but I love Ranka :heh:
DragoZERO
2010-11-13, 22:49
I was so disappointed with the movie. There just so much that was just...bleh. What was with Sheryl throwing the cape thing around herself and running down with a totally new outfit on? There were too many face palm moments for me.
justavisitor
2010-11-14, 00:09
don't remember that scene at all...got to admit that I didn't really focus on Sheryl lol...except the part at the very beginning when the explosion from Vajra set off beside Sheryl and she got propelled straight into the sky...I was thinking "how the heck did she survive that?? :heh:"...for some reasons I laughed so hard at that scene
Great, now I'm going to pour over that scene and figure out how many Gs she got accelerated. :/
Cape scene was when Sheryl switched from Diamond Crevasse to Obelisk.
moncikoma
2010-11-14, 03:09
the cape? it is a super fast HENSHIN...
JleeLink
2010-11-14, 03:45
The cape change was strange when earlier in the concert she was using that thing that lets her change clothes in real time when she was singing dont be late.
So if she had that sort of setup already on why did she need to change to regular clothes?
But anyway the clothes after the change was awesome! easily the best Sheryl clothes in the movie.
magnuskn
2010-11-14, 04:09
As a fictional work, there are no real "facts" to be found in the series. Part of what makes the movie interesting is that you have little deviations in terms of the initial setup that produce outcomes that could either turn out to be vastly different, or very much the same. Just think of it as variations on a theme.
That doesn't work for me, sorry. I see the two as different tellings of a tale, but whose particular differences produce vastly different outcomes.
As I noted a few times in the past, based on Crusaders review, so far the movie seems like an in-universe PR move to white-wash Ranka and Brera. The side-product, in the process, seems for me that the other two mains are diminished, not due to Ranka getting more bearable, but for subtle lacking things in their characterizations.
The ongoing re-watching of the series has quite done the contrary to me of what Beto feels... it has heightened my appreciation how much superior and more subtle the series was able to convey who the three mains are in comparison to the movie. My praise for Ranka from the movie stems from the fact that anything is better than Ranka from the series.
But so far, Alto has been wussied up ( I really didn't approve of his characterization suddenly turning to "I am losing myself because of acting", instead of focusing on the already existing conflict with this family ) and the nobility of his decisions has diminished somewhat by Ozma basically blackmailing him into SMS.
Sheryl, conversely, has been "awesomed" up, which somehow feels wrong. In the series, went from a self-determined, yet arrogant and somewhat aloof, girl to the playful girl we just saw in episode six, to a selfless and serious woman.
Here, she just starts out as playful and directly goes up to be a selfless superwoman, who runs up full-tilt up several flights of stairs, while singing at the height of her voice. It's a bit ridiculous and makes me feel that she lost part of her personality.
I may be wrong on some accounts, since I am comparing a product which I've seen once to another which I've studied in detail for two years. Also, there is a second movie to come, which may allay many of my misgivings. But for what we got so far, the series is for me another continuity entirely and will stay so. The characters from both tales don't mix well enough for me to accept them as some sort of melting pot.
And as an aside note: What is Kawamoris obsession with bloody Segways? If there was an uncooler vehicle in the history of mankind, I have yet to find it.
What is Kawamoris obsession with bloody Segways? If there was an uncooler vehicle in the history of mankind, I have yet to find it.
They're cool and futuristic. :D
Oh, I don't see why he wouldn't want you to agree with him (unless you both share a fondness for bantering with each other, that is).
Yeah, I think he was confusing me with someone else. :heh:
And, c'mon, DragoZERO are you gonna fixate on Sheryl's change of clothes (into the best new outfit, no less) now, in a series shock full of improbable things? I mean, really? :p
Also, Magnus, I really don't see a problem in making Sheryl likable from the start. That's actually the thing I enjoyed the most, in the movie (aside from the animation itself).
They're cool and futuristic. :D
Yeah, not seeing it. Although Sheryl does make anything look good, I guess. :D
magnuskn
2010-11-14, 08:16
Also, Magnus, I really don't see a problem in making Sheryl likable from the start. That's actually the thing I enjoyed the most, in the movie (aside from the animation itself).
Because she doesn't have to work upwards, i.e. it stunts character growth. She didn't have to get totally awesome at every aspect of being, she already is so when the movie starts. That bothers me somewhat. I saw Sheryl grow in the series, I didn't very much in the movie.
Yot-chan
2010-11-14, 09:30
I was so disappointed with the movie. There just so much that was just...bleh. What was with Sheryl throwing the cape thing around herself and running down with a totally new outfit on? There were too many face palm moments for me.
Oh, c'mon...you've seen DYRL, right? Sheryl's stage outfits are (and always have been) holograms. They've had that technology in the Macross universe since 2009...
As I noted a few times in the past, based on Crusaders review, so far the movie seems like an in-universe PR move to white-wash Ranka and Brera.
But ALL Macross stories are in-universe movies or TV shows: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=30317&st=0
Anyway, Swampy didn't QUITE get what I meant... Simply put, don't worry about continuity and just enjoy the ride. One will get fewer sticks up one's ass that way.
More Sheryl, more Alto, more Ranka, more Valkyrie action...only a total curmudgeon would complain.:heh:
Because she doesn't have to work upwards, i.e. it stunts character growth. She didn't have to get totally awesome at every aspect of being, she already is so when the movie starts. That bothers me somewhat. I saw Sheryl grow in the series, I didn't very much in the movie.
I can agree with that, somewhat. The whole "you're not all alone" thingie was her kind of showing some growth - more than any of the other characters, actually. So, I guess I'm not all that hung up on that particular aspect, then - not that I care if I'm a plot or a character person, sometimes I only care about having fun. :D
And I'm with Yot-chan on this: more Sheryl is always good. You can't go wrong with that.
But ALL Macross stories are in-universe movies or TV shows: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=30317&st=0
DAMN, Gubaba, that's pure gold. I kind of like his reasoning, myself.
moncikoma
2010-11-14, 10:40
Oh, c'mon...you've seen DYRL, right? Sheryl's stage outfits are (and always have been) holograms. They've had that technology in the Macross universe since 2009...
so that means...sheryl is naked all the time? what if the computer got crash..:heh:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1548563/
7.6 ;)
DragoZERO
2010-11-14, 10:54
That doesn't work for me, sorry. I see the two as different tellings of a tale, but whose particular differences produce vastly different outcomes.
As I noted a few times in the past, based on Crusaders review, so far the movie seems like an in-universe PR move to white-wash Ranka and Brera. The side-product, in the process, seems for me that the other two mains are diminished, not due to Ranka getting more bearable, but for subtle lacking things in their characterizations.
The ongoing re-watching of the series has quite done the contrary to me of what Beto feels... it has heightened my appreciation how much superior and more subtle the series was able to convey who the three mains are in comparison to the movie. My praise for Ranka from the movie stems from the fact that anything is better than Ranka from the series.
But so far, Alto has been wussied up ( I really didn't approve of his characterization suddenly turning to "I am losing myself because of acting", instead of focusing on the already existing conflict with this family ) and the nobility of his decisions has diminished somewhat by Ozma basically blackmailing him into SMS.
Sheryl, conversely, has been "awesomed" up, which somehow feels wrong. In the series, went from a self-determined, yet arrogant and somewhat aloof, girl to the playful girl we just saw in episode six, to a selfless and serious woman.
Here, she just starts out as playful and directly goes up to be a selfless superwoman, who runs up full-tilt up several flights of stairs, while singing at the height of her voice. It's a bit ridiculous and makes me feel that she lost part of her personality.
I may be wrong on some accounts, since I am comparing a product which I've seen once to another which I've studied in detail for two years. Also, there is a second movie to come, which may allay many of my misgivings. But for what we got so far, the series is for me another continuity entirely and will stay so. The characters from both tales don't mix well enough for me to accept them as some sort of melting pot.
And as an aside note: What is Kawamoris obsession with bloody Segways? If there was an uncooler vehicle in the history of mankind, I have yet to find it.Yeah, the movie felt empty to me. It just felt like they put another hand in the cookie jar for the hell of it.
And, c'mon, DragoZERO are you gonna fixate on Sheryl's change of clothes (into the best new outfit, no less) now, in a series shock full of improbable things? I mean, really? :pI will have to wait for the second movie because there are plot points that were totally dropped and they may explain them later.
magnuskn
2010-11-14, 11:01
But ALL Macross stories are in-universe movies or TV shows: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=30317&st=0
Well, that doesn't make no sense at all. It just serves to stop all discussion cold, in the vein of "It's all fictional anyway, who cares?". A terrible interpretion from Kawamori, IMO. But of course some people will love it, those who hate the idea of any sort of fixed canon.
*edit* Also, as I just noticed from the post of a strong Sheryl-hater on another blog ( Oh, the irony! ), Kawamori apparently had a change of heart in the last 11 years as to how Macross continuity functions. I refer you to AlaAlbas interview translation from 1 1/2 months ago (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3264366&postcount=94).
Quote:
I see. So you feel Sheryl is more fit into this shoujo manga world. And how was it after you have read Sheryl, Kiss in the Galaxy. The story is a bit different isnt it.
K: Ahaha, isnt it nice(laugh). It feels like, "aah, this is the kind of shoujo manga I wanted to see." The Sheryl who Oyama-san draw, her high-minded and lovelyness is just all right.
When the medium itself changed, even if it's a same work I think it's okay to see its own arrangement. To be frank, I wont mind even if they are all parallel world. Hence the setting of TV serie's and movie's is a bit different, and the stories are a bit different too.
Of course, also in manga version, even if the thing drawn were the same work, I think it's okay to see a different way of description. So thats why, in this manga, in chapter 1(stage 0) the story starts of from Galaxy, a part we didnt do in TV version, as a reader I can enjoy this part.
Anyway, Swampy didn't QUITE get what I meant... Simply put, don't worry about continuity and just enjoy the ride. One will get fewer sticks up one's ass that way.
More Sheryl, more Alto, more Ranka, more Valkyrie action...only a total curmudgeon would complain.:heh:
I am not complaining per se, only categorizing how much I like one product over the other and that I don't view them as the same continuity. The movie is fine. It's just not the same quality as the series to me.
Swampstorm
2010-11-14, 14:30
I never say I hate Sheryl lol...in fact, I like Sheryl...(she is pretty much designed to be liked anyway)Heh, that isn't quite the same as having an undying love for Sheryl, isn't it? ;)
I didn't really focus on Sheryl lol...except the part at the very beginning when the explosion from Vajra set off beside Sheryl and she got propelled straight into the sky...I was thinking "how the heck did she survive that?? :heh:"...for some reasons I laughed so hard at that scene<3
But so far, Alto has been wussied up ( I really didn't approve of his characterization suddenly turning to "I am losing myself because of acting", instead of focusing on the already existing conflict with this family ) and the nobility of his decisions has diminished somewhat by Ozma basically blackmailing him into SMS.Alto's primary conflict, either way, is in his search for an identity. His relationship with his father was previously the battleground where that all played out, but most people seem to barely have noticed how that resolved itself in episode 23. It's still essentially a different route to the same destination.
Alto's decisions early in the series never were particularly noble. He doesn't pilot a valk simply because "the fate of the entire universe lies in the hands of one boy"; he does it because VFs are cool and he likes flying. That in itself makes him more awesome than the most of mecha leads out there.
Sheryl, conversely, has been "awesomed" up, which somehow feels wrong. In the series, went from a self-determined, yet arrogant and somewhat aloof, girl to the playful girl we just saw in episode six, to a selfless and serious woman.To be honest, the first half of the series isn't really about Sheryl. Don't get me wrong, her antics are wonderfully entertaining, and the movie truly suffers for the want of a panty chase scene, but much of what we saw was still just Sheryl's public persona, instead of her private one.
I think the black bunny/white bunny motif exemplifies this. As a celebrity, all we see are her different personas. She's "100% natural", and yet she's aware that she's the product of commercialism. Is she genuinely kind and magnanimous, or is she just acting a role? Is she a friend, or is she a spy? Can we trust her, or can't we? The only way to find out is to look beyond the false image of the songstress to find the real person underneath.
This tension was present in the series as well, but it wasn't made quite as explicit.
What defines her as a character, however, is how she rebuilds her career in the face of a seemingly insurmountable adversity and reinvents herself. Her "rebirth" in the shelter scene is pretty much the defining moment of the series (I still get goosebumps when watching it, even two years later). So really, I won't have much to say about her character's overall development until I see the second half of the movies.
Anyway, Swampy didn't QUITE get what I meant... Simply put, don't worry about continuity and just enjoy the ride. One will get fewer sticks up one's ass that way.Oh, I wasn't actually speaking on your behalf, there. I was just helping you troll... *ahem* I mean... I was just joining in on the fun with magnus. He tends to be a bit rigid in his thinking at times, making him oh-so-easy to tease. :heh:
so that means...sheryl is naked all the time? what if the computer got crash..Hmm... Refer to Macross Ace #3.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3029930&postcount=5811
justavisitor
2010-11-14, 15:20
Heh, that isn't quite the same as having an undying love for Sheryl, isn't it? ;)
Definitely not...and I haven't planned to switch camp lol...Speaking about Sheryl tho, I really like the part where she rides the segway (Offtopic..why would segway become popular in 2059 when it almost becomes obsolete in 2010 :heh:) and takes photos in the forest...seems so peaceful :)
@magnuskn
actually, parallel world may not be a bad idea...Amagami is in the parallel world, Yosuga no Sora is in the parallel world, Kamen Rider Decade (Everyone should try to watch at least 1 Kamen Rider series!!) is all about parallel world...Kawamori has a pretty good instinct of catching up to the new trend if the interview is true :heh:
I really don't have an issue with all of them being movies/series. I actually kinda like it better than alternate continuity, it seems a bit more original. I can appreciate the art of it, and the intellectual side of analyzing fictional events similar to how real movies do it, only in this case we can only analyze the historical event through this medium instead of looking it up on Wikipedia. I'm pretty sure Sheryl existed either way anyway. ;)
Also...
I didn't really focus on Sheryl lol...except the part at the very beginning when the explosion from Vajra set off beside Sheryl and she got propelled straight into the sky...I was thinking "how the heck did she survive that?? "...for some reasons I laughed so hard at that scene
It was funny, I was amused too. As for how she survived my estimates are that she was thrown roughly 39 feet in 0.25 seconds, meaning she and Alto were subjected to approximately 5-6 Gs of acceleration. Survivable! Yay! Sheryl did not go squish. She is fortunate however she did not get fragged by debris, or burned.
Yot-chan
2010-11-14, 20:01
so that means...sheryl is naked all the time?
No, of course not. Didn't you watch the tv series? Specifically episode 7?
Oh, I wasn't actually speaking on your behalf, there. I was just helping you troll... *ahem* I mean... I was just joining in on the fun with magnus. He tends to be a bit rigid in his thinking at times, making him oh-so-easy to tease. :heh:
Maybe so, but I'm dead serious here, and I'm not making fun of anyone. It's nearly impossible for me to compare SDFM TV to DYRL, because I view them as inextricably connected. As I've said before, it's all a big hot fudge sundae to me...SDFM TV is the ice cream, DYRL is the fudge sauce, and FB 2012 is the cherry on top. The cumulative effect of all of all three of them together beats out any of them separately. And unless they cock up the second Frontier movie terribly, I think the same will be true here.
magnuskn
2010-11-15, 00:45
Alto's primary conflict, either way, is in his search for an identity. His relationship with his father was previously the battleground where that all played out, but most people seem to barely have noticed how that resolved itself in episode 23. It's still essentially a different route to the same destination.
True, I just liked the series way better. What can I say, I appreciated the subtlety of Altos characterization and this more "in your face" approach doesn't mesh that well with it.
Alto's decisions early in the series never were particularly noble. He doesn't pilot a valk simply because "the fate of the entire universe lies in the hands of one boy"; he does it because VFs are cool and he likes flying. That in itself makes him more awesome than the most of mecha leads out there.
Now, here I disagree, at least partially. You are right that he wanted to fly the VF-25, but especially after re-watching the initial episodes and discussing them, I am pretty sure that having Gilliam die for him and seeing the devastation to his home was another reason why he joined. And for protecting Ranka, although that falls under "protecting his home".
To be honest, the first half of the series isn't really about Sheryl. Don't get me wrong, her antics are wonderfully entertaining, and the movie truly suffers for the want of a panty chase scene, but much of what we saw was still just Sheryl's public persona, instead of her private one.
I think the black bunny/white bunny motif exemplifies this. As a celebrity, all we see are her different personas. She's "100% natural", and yet she's aware that she's the product of commercialism. Is she genuinely kind and magnanimous, or is she just acting a role? Is she a friend, or is she a spy? Can we trust her, or can't we? The only way to find out is to look beyond the false image of the songstress to find the real person underneath.
This tension was present in the series as well, but it wasn't made quite as explicit.
Well, I think you are conflating the two versions of Sheryl right now, to the detriment of the series Sheryl. True, we get those questions about Sheryls motivations in the movie, since we almost immediately get our attention called to her possibly being a spy ( Btw, Ozma in the movie really sucks for almost arresting Sheryl out of his overprotectiveness. How about getting some evidence, you schmuck! :frustrated: ).
Sheryl from the series is not under any such suspicions. I haven't seen her moments of kindness being a "public persona" at all in her interactions, rather the contrary. In everything she does with the other big two after that big Vajra shows up at the end of episode 2, she seems to have shown her true personality to them ( except for teasing Alto a bit that one time on the tram. ).
What defines her as a character, however, is how she rebuilds her career in the face of a seemingly insurmountable adversity and reinvents herself. Her "rebirth" in the shelter scene is pretty much the defining moment of the series (I still get goosebumps when watching it, even two years later). So really, I won't have much to say about her character's overall development until I see the second half of the movies.
Yeah, we are missing one half of the equation. We'll have to see. IMO, though, the first movie didn't manage to show the Sheryl we knew from those first seven episodes, but then again she is being cast in a different role in the movie than in the series.
Oh, I wasn't actually speaking on your behalf, there. I was just helping you troll... *ahem* I mean... I was just joining in on the fun with magnus. He tends to be a bit rigid in his thinking at times, making him oh-so-easy to tease. :heh:
Eh, I like analytical thinking. If that makes me easy to tease with wild hypothesis, that's the price I pay for it. :p I actually am one of the people who can be convinced of another persons viewpoint on the internet, if that other person has a better argument than me. :p It happens sometimes, like when we had that discussion about how spontaneous Rankas departure from Frontier was, I came out on the "it was premeditated" side and nobody budged a milimeter until Father Hentai came up with "Maybe it was Breras idea!". Which got me, I think immediately, to admit that I hadn't thought of that for a second before ( since when does Brera have the impulse to do anything on his own? ) and that this opened a whole other avenue on how one viewed the Griffith Park scene.
@magnuskn
actually, parallel world may not be a bad idea...Amagami is in the parallel world, Yosuga no Sora is in the parallel world, Kamen Rider Decade (Everyone should try to watch at least 1 Kamen Rider series!!) is all about parallel world...Kawamori has a pretty good instinct of catching up to the new trend if the interview is true :heh:
The interview is as real as it gets, the scanned pages of it are shown two posts above (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3264246#post3264246) of AlaAlbas first part of the translation.
Maybe so, but I'm dead serious here, and I'm not making fun of anyone. It's nearly impossible for me to compare SDFM TV to DYRL, because I view them as inextricably connected. As I've said before, it's all a big hot fudge sundae to me...SDFM TV is the ice cream, DYRL is the fudge sauce, and FB 2012 is the cherry on top. The cumulative effect of all of all three of them together beats out any of them separately. And unless they cock up the second Frontier movie terribly, I think the same will be true here.
Well, let's just remember that everyone has the right to view things as he wants, personally. I am just pointing out that the differences in approach to many characters make it impossible for me to view the series and films as one continuity, you like it the other way. Kawamori seems to have recanted from that one ( pretty mediocre sourced, if what Renato wrote in his first post on Macross World is still all we know about it ) interview, making the different series/movies more parallel worlds, instead of all in-universe productions.
Swampstorm
2010-11-15, 08:01
Now, here I disagree, at least partially. You are right that he wanted to fly the VF-25, but especially after re-watching the initial episodes and discussing them, I am pretty sure that having Gilliam die for him and seeing the devastation to his home was another reason why he joined. And for protecting Ranka, although that falls under "protecting his home".Alto isn't particularly fond of Frontier, at least not until late in the series. It's a cage to him in much the same way that his family obligations are (an ongoing metaphor that we see even with his first encounter with the "ceiling" in episode 1). Likewise, his argument with Michael in episode 9 over letting Sheryl pilot is very much about whether his own reasons for piloting are really legitimate: deep down, he's really just running away. It's only after he comes to terms with his father (and notes how frail he is with illness) that he realizes that he was fighting a war that was in his head - and the real battle is over a place that, for the very first time, he recognizes as home.
Just as SDFM set us off on a journey, MF is very much about returning home.
Well, I think you are conflating the two versions of Sheryl right now, to the detriment of the series Sheryl. True, we get those questions about Sheryls motivations in the movie, since we almost immediately get our attention called to her possibly being a spy ( Btw, Ozma in the movie really sucks for almost arresting Sheryl out of his overprotectiveness. How about getting some evidence, you schmuck! :frustrated: ).
Sheryl from the series is not under any such suspicions. I haven't seen her moments of kindness being a "public persona" at all in her interactions, rather the contrary. In everything she does with the other big two after that big Vajra shows up at the end of episode 2, she seems to have shown her true personality to them ( except for teasing Alto a bit that one time on the tram. ).What I'm talking about has more to do with Macross' commentary on idols and fame (think back to ghostlightning's article on idols in Macross). MF seems more acutely conscious of commercialism than SDFM was (in everything from the vending machines that chase down their customers to the omnipresent advertisements for the two idols). Stars have both a public and private life, and somewhere in the interface between the two arises the question of authenticity. Who is the real Sheryl Nome?
I'll also say this: most criticisms that I've seen leveled against Sheryl come from a broader mistrust of celebrity and commercialism as a whole (i.e. a reaction to the premise, not the character). In the case of some viewers, we saw this explode into a frenzy of paranoia, such as when Sheryl "went behind Ranka's back" to make moves on Alto in episode 5, 10, and most notably 11. Likewise, some of the derogatory language that gets thrown around regarding Sheryl's relative "forcefulness" (or "forwardness" if you're feeling Victorian) intrinsically link back to the concept of "authenticity". After all, where do you think the metaphor of "selling out" came from? :heh:
What makes MF interesting in this regard is that Sheryl is not only aware of the role that she's expected to act, but can step in and out of it as necessary without letting it dominate her personality. In short, the question of authenticity doesn't really matter unless you're trying to pigeonhole her into a convenient box. Good luck with that, of course.
There's much more to be said on this subject, but I don't know how to structure my ideas on it, yet.
magnuskn
2010-11-15, 09:15
Alto isn't particularly fond of Frontier, at least not until late in the series. It's a cage to him in much the same way that his family obligations are (an ongoing metaphor that we see even with his first encounter with the "ceiling" in episode 1). Likewise, his argument with Michael in episode 9 over letting Sheryl pilot is very much about whether his own reasons for piloting are really legitimate: deep down, he's really just running away. It's only after he comes to terms with his father (and notes how frail he is with illness) that he realizes that he was fighting a war that was in his head - and the real battle is over a place that, for the very first time, he recognizes as home.
Just as SDFM set us off on a journey, MF is very much about returning home.
I think if you look at Alto doing things conciously, you are right. But subconciously, the need to protect Frontier, his home, was right there, even with his exterior grouchienss about it. It's as much as he explains to Klan on the rooftop and you could see it with his reaction to the destruction of so much of his home, right after he ran ( rolled? ) away from Ranka and the VF-25 in episode 3.
What I'm talking about has more to do with Macross' commentary on idols and fame (think back to ghostlightning's article on idols in Macross). MF seems more acutely conscious of commercialism than SDFM was (in everything from the vending machines that chase down their customers to the omnipresent advertisements for the two idols). Stars have both a public and private life, and somewhere in the interface between the two arises the question of authenticity. Who is the real Sheryl Nome?
I'll also say this: most criticisms that I've seen leveled against Sheryl come from a broader mistrust of celebrity and commercialism as a whole (i.e. a reaction to the premise, not the character). In the case of some viewers, we saw this explode into a frenzy of paranoia, such as when Sheryl "went behind Ranka's back" to make moves on Alto in episode 5, 10, and most notably 11. Likewise, some of the derogatory language that gets thrown around regarding Sheryl's relative "forcefulness" (or "forwardness" if you're feeling Victorian) intrinsically link back to the concept of "authenticity". After all, where do you think the metaphor of "selling out" came from? :heh:
What makes MF interesting in this regard is that Sheryl is not only aware of the role that she's expected to act, but can step in and out of it as necessary without letting it dominate her personality. In short, the question of authenticity doesn't really matter unless you're trying to pigeonhole her into a convenient box. Good luck with that, of course.
There's much more to be said on this subject, but I don't know how to structure my ideas on it, yet.
Thanks, that was really good commentary. :) Maybe I misunderstood your prior one, where it felt to me that you were calling into question the autenticity a lot of her actions early in the series. You should join our re-watch of Frontier, there'd be many interesting discussions. :p
John117xCortana
2010-11-15, 09:41
http://dramatis.wordpress.com/2008/12/08/queen/
magnuskn
2010-11-15, 10:35
http://dramatis.wordpress.com/2008/12/08/queen/
Heh, I totally forgot about the existance of that analysis. I even wrote a comment.
Yot-chan
2010-11-15, 12:34
Well, let's just remember that everyone has the right to view things as he wants, personally.
True. I was just sharing how I view them, which may or may not be helpful. But no matter what, I believe that comparing series to movie is usually a false dichotomy, since there is no pressing need to choose one over the other.
I am just pointing out that the differences in approach to many characters make it impossible for me to view the series and films as one continuity, you like it the other way.
No, I don't. I view them as different continuities. But continuity is not terribly important in Macross, and worrying about it will just give you a headache.
Kawamori seems to have recanted from that one ( pretty mediocre sourced, if what Renato wrote in his first post on Macross World is still all we know about it )...
Who whoa whoa whoa... Renato is EMINENTLY trustable. He's translated numerous articles and interviews about the making of Macross, he's the one that introduced me to a Macross staff member, he led the expeditions to Studio Nue and to Big West (and will probably lead the one to Satelight if we go...although I'm rather proud to say that I'm the one who found the place). Basically, most of what I know about Macross's production, I know because Renato either told me or pointed me in the right direction.
And the site WAS there last year. I think most of us commenting in the thread checked it. I know I did.
interview, making the different series/movies more parallel worlds, instead of all in-universe productions.
And "recanted" is kind of a strong word, don't you think? Kawamori made similar statements about both versions of SDFM being like historical recountings of WWII in Animag (Issue 11, IIRC...but of course, I don't have the issue with me), but that was even further back, of course. But he held that view for at least ten years (the Animag interview being done in the late '80s) (so why would he change it?), and "parallel universe" seems like it leads to the same outcome, anyway: "Don't worry about continuity, we've got a whole bunch of different versions of the same events, blah blah blah." It could be that saying they're all parallel universes is just convenient shorthand for the same idea. Or he may have changed his mind. Who knows, besides him?
And anyway, neither version supports Crusader's idea of the TV series being real and the movie being in-universe.
(Personally, I like the "fiction" explanation MUCH better than the "Parallel universe" explanation, because it has the virtue of being rather unique. How many times have you heard the "parallel universe" explanation? Too many, I'll wager.)
magnuskn
2010-11-15, 13:06
True. I was just sharing how I view them, which may or may not be helpful. But no matter what, I believe that comparing series to movie is usually a false dichotomy, since there is no pressing need to choose one over the other.
No, that's true. We'll see how that works out after movie two, though. :p
No, I don't. I view them as different continuities. But continuity is not terribly important in Macross, and worrying about it will just give you a headache.
Well, since it's all pretty fresh and recent, I'm of course much more sensitive to it than with DYRL.
Who whoa whoa whoa... Renato is EMINENTLY trustable. He's translated numerous articles and interviews about the making of Macross, he's the one that introduced me to a Macross staff member, he led the expeditions to Studio Nue and to Big West (and will probably lead the one to Satelight if we go...although I'm rather proud to say that I'm the one who found the place). Basically, most of what I know about Macross's production, I know because Renato either told me or pointed me in the right direction.
And the site WAS there last year. I think most of us commenting in the thread checked it. I know I did.
I wasn't trying to impugn Renato, but rather referencing his own words that the interview was mentioned in some work, but there still were uncertainties. If later on in the thread that was corrected, so stand I. I must confess that I didn't read more than the first post and that only fleetingly. I am kinda busy with college at the moment.
And "recanted" is kind of a strong word, don't you think? Kawamori made similar statements about both versions of SDFM being like historical recountings of WWII in Animag (Issue 11, IIRC...but of course, I don't have the issue with me), but that was even further back, of course. But he held that view for at least ten years (the Animag interview being done in the late '80s) (so why would he change it?), and "parallel universe" seems like it leads to the same outcome, anyway: "Don't worry about continuity, we've got a whole bunch of different versions of the same events, blah blah blah." It could be that saying they're all parallel universes is just convenient shorthand for the same idea. Or he may have changed his mind. Who knows, besides him?
And anyway, neither version supports Crusader's idea of the TV series being real and the movie being in-universe.
(Personally, I like the "fiction" explanation MUCH better than the "Parallel universe" explanation, because it has the virtue of being rather unique. How many times have you heard the "parallel universe" explanation? Too many, I'll wager.)
Yeah, but the parallel universe things make sense. "It's all fiction in the fiction" does not, at least to me. And, yep, "recanted" may have been too strong a word, as both concepts may co-exist somewhat. In the end, it's all Kawamori who decides what's the real continuity. I am just seeing a lot of confusion down the line, with all the products which have come out lately for Frontier ( TV series, movie, light novels, manga, several manga tie-ins... ). :heh:
And I think it is better for discussion if continuities are separated. How else am I going to get my jollies declaring Ranka to be the worst person in the galaxy? :eyespin::p Movie Ranka doesn't qualify for the title.
Yot-chan
2010-11-15, 23:34
Well, since it's all pretty fresh and recent, I'm of course much more sensitive to it than with DYRL.
And of course, many people STILL get confused over SDFM TV vs. DYRL... :heh:
I wasn't trying to impugn Renato, but rather referencing his own words that the interview was mentioned in some work, but there still were uncertainties. If later on in the thread that was corrected, so stand I. I must confess that I didn't read more than the first post and that only fleetingly. I am kinda busy with college at the moment.
Oops, sorry. :uhoh:
And yeah...Macross Fun Net was, as far as I can tell, simply a really early official Macross website, mostly centered on Macross 7 (since that's what was new at the time). The had a few giveaways, though, like the "Macross 7 Galaxy Fun Net CD" (a little audio drama CD single). But I'd imagine that it was pretty good for 1997. IIRC, it was replaced by macross.co.jp by 2001 or 2002.
Yeah, but the parallel universe things make sense. "It's all fiction in the fiction" does not, at least to me. And, yep, "recanted" may have been too strong a word, as both concepts may co-exist somewhat. In the end, it's all Kawamori who decides what's the real continuity. I am just seeing a lot of confusion down the line, with all the products which have come out lately for Frontier ( TV series, movie, light novels, manga, several manga tie-ins... ). :heh:
I think it's confusing any way you look at it. Again, I like the "fiction within fiction" account because, first, it's unique (as far as I know), and second, it's a rather elegant way of saying, "Just repeat to yourself, 'it's just a show, I should really just relax.'" Plus, I like the idea there IS a real story out there, we've just never seen it (and never will). Like hearing variations without a theme. I'm always up for a little arty postmodernism with my giant robot action fests. :D
But again, that's me. If the parallel worlds explanation works better for you, go with it.
And I think it is better for discussion if continuities are separated. How else am I going to get my jollies declaring Ranka to be the worst person in the galaxy? :eyespin::p Movie Ranka doesn't qualify for the title.
Oh yeah...I'm all for keeping the continuities separated...unless the topic is advance made from TV series to movie. When I was a kid, I had a difficult-to-articulate theory about DYRL: that from a design standpoint, it was sequel to the TV series, even though it was a retelling in plot. All the characters were a couple of years older than they had been in the show, all the technology was slightly more advanced than it had been. I feel the same way about the False Diva: the Tornado Pack is slightly more advanced than the Super and Armored Packs from the show, Sheryl's stage show relies on even more sophisticated hologram technology than we saw in the show...everything from a design standpoint seems like it's a few years AFTER the series ended...but the plot is essentially the same as the show. So there IS continuity (i.e. progression) between the series and the movie, just not on a plot level.
Does that make sense...?:uhoh:
magnuskn
2010-11-16, 02:09
Oh yeah...I'm all for keeping the continuities separated...unless the topic is advance made from TV series to movie. When I was a kid, I had a difficult-to-articulate theory about DYRL: that from a design standpoint, it was sequel to the TV series, even though it was a retelling in plot. All the characters were a couple of years older than they had been in the show, all the technology was slightly more advanced than it had been. I feel the same way about the False Diva: the Tornado Pack is slightly more advanced than the Super and Armored Packs from the show, Sheryl's stage show relies on even more sophisticated hologram technology than we saw in the show...everything from a design standpoint seems like it's a few years AFTER the series ended...but the plot is essentially the same as the show. So there IS continuity (i.e. progression) between the series and the movie, just not on a plot level.
Does that make sense...?:uhoh:
Well, it's an interesting viewpoint. It kinda works better with me if the movies are being in-universe productions, since such movies would normally use the current tech-equipment,as to grab the viewers attention. :p But it's all in the eye of the beholder.
DragoZERO
2010-11-16, 07:55
... Sheryl's stage show relies on even more sophisticated hologram technology than we saw in the show...I think that's only because they had a bigger budget and CG technology has advanced more.
Yot-chan
2010-11-16, 14:03
I think that's only because they had a bigger budget and CG technology has advanced more.
Well, sure...but isn't the same true for a lot of the advances shown in DYRL? They could afford to animate glowing clothes and drinks, or cars on the ceiling, and so they did: in the process making the DYRL technology level higher than SDFM TV.
I think the discussion here has rapidly escalated to very existentialistic levels, don't you guys?
:heh:
Back on topic: I've seen the movie three times, now. Recently, only Scott Pilgrim vs The World has this beat, as I've just seen that one for the 5th time (not counting the deleted and alternate scenes - and the bloopers, oh, that one has got to have been a great set to work on, honestly).
Yot-chan
2010-11-16, 14:21
I think the discussion here has rapidly escalated to very existentialistic levels, don't you guys?
:heh:
What's wrong with that? We're still discussing the movie. (And don't think I didn't notice that you slyly said, "Back on topic..." and then proceeded to talk about "Scott Pilgrim vs. the World." I'm sorry...WHO'S going off topic? :D )
Anyway, I have a question for those who haven't seen DYRL...I know Sheryl's hologram stage outfits seem to be causing a fair bit of confusion (as they did in the show), which some people writing the quick changes between costumes as continuity errors, but what about Ranka's glowing clothes in the last section of the movie? Did that weird anyone out?
What's wrong with that? We're still discussing the movie. (And don't think I didn't notice that you slyly said, "Back on topic..." and then proceeded to talk about "Scott Pilgrim vs. the World." I'm sorry...WHO'S going off topic? :D )
Ahem... In my defense, I didn't talk about said movie but merely commented on the number of times I've watched it, with a tiny little comment about some content. So, there.
:p
As for Ranka's glowing clothes... I don't even remember that. Time to watch it again, I guess.
I have a question for those who haven't seen DYRL
There are still people who haven't seen DYRL? :(
Yot-chan
2010-11-16, 14:42
There are still people who haven't seen DYRL? :(
Yes.
Almost makes you weep, don't it?
Almost makes you weep, don't it?
Yes. Yes it does.
Yot-chan
2010-11-16, 14:45
As for Ranka's glowing clothes... I don't even remember that. Time to watch it again, I guess.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f344/GoStopBlvd/Itsuwari/vlcsnap-2730505.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f344/GoStopBlvd/Itsuwari/vlcsnap-2739000.jpg
:D
Oh, that... I thought it was simply the Vajra glow expanding. I mean, it's not only her clothing that's glowing, is it? Her hair and skin seemed to have that glow, as well.
I was more interested in her battle cry, at the time, tho. :D
And as for people not having seen DYRL... I mean, we actually get lots of those in the recommendation threads, don't we? Sad, really, but true.
Yot-chan
2010-11-16, 14:58
Oh, that... I thought it was simply the Vajra glow expanding. I mean, it's not only her clothing that's glowing, is it? Her hair and skin seemed to have that glow, as well.
Huh...I figured it was the same kind of thing as Minmay's dress when she and Hikaru are trapped in the hold in DYRL...mostly becuase the color of the dress changes.
I was more interested in her battle cry, at the time, tho. :D
Oh hell yeah. Ranka battle cry > Alto battle cry.
Huh...I figured it was the same kind of thing as Minmay's dress when she and Hikaru are trapped in the hold in DYRL...mostly becuase the color of the dress changes.
Yeah i was thinking that during my first watch of the film.
Now that would be quite the fancy attire to own.
Ranka's chic, dudes. Whaddayaknow, huh? :D
moncikoma
2010-11-16, 16:23
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f344/GoStopBlvd/Itsuwari/vlcsnap-2730505.jpg
:D
What is that glowing on the hand?
DragoZERO
2010-11-16, 16:40
Well, sure...but isn't the same true for a lot of the advances shown in DYRL? They could afford to animate glowing clothes and drinks, or cars on the ceiling, and so they did: in the process making the DYRL technology level higher than SDFM TV.Naw... they just chose not to show it the first time. ;)
Yeah, this will go no where. :heh:
What's wrong with that? We're still discussing the movie. (And don't think I didn't notice that you slyly said, "Back on topic..." and then proceeded to talk about "Scott Pilgrim vs. the World." I'm sorry...WHO'S going off topic? :D )BURNED!
Oh, that... I thought it was simply the Vajra glow expanding. I mean, it's not only her clothing that's glowing, is it? Her hair and skin seemed to have that glow, as well.Yeah, that would be the Vajra glow. The source is her torso and it spreads from there.
And as for people not having seen DYRL... I mean, we actually get lots of those in the recommendation threads, don't we? Sad, really, but true.Oh the recommendation threads. So many you can answer with Macross. It's get tiring after a while.
Yot-chan
2010-11-16, 16:53
What is that glowing on the hand?
I think it's one of those Sharon Apple-type "quality enhancement" bracelets.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f344/GoStopBlvd/SharonBracelet.jpg
Yeah, that would be the Vajra glow. The source is her torso and it spreads from there..
I dunno...we never saw the belly glow change the color of her dress, whereas Minmay's glowing dress DID change from brown to white.
No skin off my nose either way, of course...I was just kinda pleased that they brought back that technology (or so I thought).
moncikoma
2010-11-16, 17:13
I want those braclets... @yotchan if u by some change can buy it at "christmas w/u" event
Please buy more for me... I have an address in tokyo....u may sent it there
Yot-chan
2010-11-16, 17:20
I want those braclets... @yotchan if u by some change can buy it at "christmas w/u" event
Please buy more for me... I have an address in tokyo....u may sent it there
:confused:
Uhh...the technology to make them doesn't exist...
No but i'm sure moncikoma could easily go out and find a shop that sells glow in the dark bracelets. :p
DragoZERO
2010-11-16, 18:40
No but i'm sure moncikoma could easily go out and find a shop that sells glow in the dark bracelets. :p
I was about to say...why does it have to be some complex device from the future? Simply glow in the dark bracelet will do it. That's probably all it is too. :heh:
That's probably all it is too. :heh:
Well it's not, though i get the point you're trying to make. :p
DragoZERO
2010-11-16, 22:21
I think it's one of those Sharon Apple-type "quality enhancement" bracelets.
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7666/sharonbracelet413843841.jpgI think that entire shot is a Macross Plus reference. Neumann, Dyson and Lucy are sitting right there!
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/328/yangneumann401374540160.jpg http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/4168/isamudyson1388798838898.jpg http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4672/lucy37817033786436.jpg
This may have been mentioned already, since there are 45 pages already. Even if it has been, I'm patting myself on the back for noticing on my own!
EDIT: NEVERMIND! Agh! >.<
Well it's not, though i get the point you're trying to make. :pYeah well...lol.
I think that entire shot is a Macross Plus reference. Neumann, Dyson and Lucy are sitting right there!
I'm pretty sure that shot is from Macross Plus. >>
DragoZERO
2010-11-16, 22:25
I'm pretty sure that shot is from Macross Plus. >>
Serious? So...where is the shot from the movie?? I don't remember the bracelets. Agh! :upset: :frustrated:
I should have known just from the aspect ratio alone. http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs9/i/2006/034/7/6/God___I_hate_myself_by_Jason9811.gif
Serious? So...where is the shot from the movie?? I don't remember the bracelets. Agh! :upset: :frustrated:
I should have known just from the aspect ratio alone.
Background, Ranka finding her seat for Sheryl's Revenge Live concert.
There are still people who haven't seen DYRL? :(
I pity them. :uhoh:
Serious? So...where is the shot from the movie?? I don't remember the bracelets. Agh! :upset: :frustrated:
It's from Sharon Apple's live concert, which is in both the OVA and film versions of Macross Plus.
moncikoma
2010-11-18, 16:20
They should sell those braclets in real live concert this christmas...
The technology is there... My friend have some sort of light stick for AKB48 concert..
They should just make a rounded ver..
Crimson Cloud
2010-12-04, 16:33
Finally watched it today. It felt like I was rewatching the same first few episodes with some additional content added in the mix. The highlight for me was the Sheryl's concert in the beginning, it was really well done presentation wise and animation quality wasn't lacking ether. Characters were acting like their usual self with Ranka being a bit more sure in herself, or at least that is what I felt during the series. She didn't need constant advice from Alto, or maybe the movie just didn't had time for that. Sheryl was her usual gorgeous self. Some fanservice from the lovely ladies and decent ''new'' mecha action scenes deserve at least some credit. Others may not think like me but the pace of the movie was rather solid and it featured most of my favorite scenes from anime series. Didn't had high expectations in the first place so the movie was what I expected, good and entertaining, even though some call it a refreshed seven episodes tossed into one.
I loled at the ''Goddamn it!'' part when Alto was crossing the street =)
moncikoma
2010-12-05, 17:48
Which part is that? On a date part?
When he's stalking Ranka into FamilyMart.
Finally saw the subbed version of Itsuwari no Utahime, only seen the BR so far and had missed quite a bit of the details.
Seeing it a second time I've enjoyed it even more. I think Utahime's greatest quality is integrating the triangle further in to the plot. My main gripe with the TV series is that the high school romantic drama bit was often only tangentially related to the wider events between Frontier,Galaxy and the Vaijira. Only in the final episodes did things merge. You can make an argument for seeing the movie as primarily plot driven project in contrast to the more character driven TV-series.
The characters have been changed more then I expected, and in a good way. Alto isn't self-centered any more and less emotional. I actually like movie-Alto, something I never expected to say, as the TV-version grates my nerves. Sheryl is no longer a victim of events but now a proactive force. The credit card scene was brilliant. Ranka is probably the least changed character but her connection to Alto as a childhood friend makes that relationship a lot more logical. Ozma Lee is less angry and even more impressive then before. And thank you SK for the twist on Michael, wonder if he can do what Kakazaki couldn't.
I'm hoping for a slightly different direction in the sequel from the TV events. While I love the TV final arc with the inverted DYRL finale. I sort of hope that Grace wont go Palpatine on us again or at least not in the same way.
Remains the mystery plane. A guest appearance by the man himself doesn't seem to likely. Maybe it's Ozma in some Sound Force action? Hope at least there will be a Firebomber song played. Anyway, the movie incorporated pretty much everything I enjoyed from the TV-series and fixed or removed the parts that I didn't. So I'm really looking forward to the sequel.
magnuskn
2010-12-06, 18:16
The characters have been changed more then I expected, and in a good way. Alto isn't self-centered any more and less emotional. I actually like movie-Alto, something I never expected to say, as the TV-version grates my nerves.
Interesting, as Alto never was the slightest bit self-centered ( as in selfish or narcissistic ) in the series. Maybe you meant "reserved" or "emotionally distant"?
Interesting, as Alto never was the slightest bit self-centered ( as in selfish or narcissistic ) in the series. Maybe you meant "reserved" or "emotionally distant"?
No, reserved or emotionally distant is more appropriate for characters like Shin Kudo or Sara Nome who have trust issues.
What I mean is that in the TV-series Alto let's his behaviour be defined by his family problems. He is often shown as angry and reckless and incapable of dealing with authority. This clouds his judgement in combat and in his personal life.
In the movie the Saotome angle is heavily downplayed. It's just presented as the reason why he became a pilot rather then fuel for teen-angst. In short the character has become more mellow and mature.
A nice change for example was the concert-scene where Alto saved Sheryl. In the TV-series Alto nearly caused an accident, in the movie he only acts as he perceives Sheryl to be in danger. Same result but Alto comes of as a lot more sympathetic even though Sheryl was never in real danger.
For me the "rebuilt" of Alto's personality becomes complete when Alto talks to Ranka and notes that while Sheryl can be childish in private she is a complete pro when it comes to work. A lesson he seems to take to heart.
Interestingly, the early discovery of foul play by both Frontier and Galaxy by the SMS could change events post ep18 completely. I don't see this Alto buy the "it's them or us" manipulations by Leon.
magnuskn
2010-12-08, 03:34
No, reserved or emotionally distant is more appropriate for characters like Shin Kudo or Sara Nome who have trust issues.
What I mean is that in the TV-series Alto let's his behaviour be defined by his family problems. He is often shown as angry and reckless and incapable of dealing with authority. This clouds his judgement in combat and in his personal life.
In the movie the Saotome angle is heavily downplayed. It's just presented as the reason why he became a pilot rather then fuel for teen-angst. In short the character has become more mellow and mature.
Ah, you didn't mean self-centered in the sense of vain or selfish, but more like as someone who has personal problems.
I see where you are coming from, but for me that makes Alto a weaker character in the movie. I am aware that it is for the reason of time-constraints, but having Alto not have to grow out of his preoccupation with his own problems makes him a less developed character and can only be perceived as a better character arc if someone is already informed by the series. The Alto presented in the movie barely grows as a character.
A nice change for example was the concert-scene where Alto saved Sheryl. In the TV-series Alto nearly caused an accident, in the movie he only acts as he perceives Sheryl to be in danger. Same result but Alto comes of as a lot more sympathetic even though Sheryl was never in real danger.
Actually Alto didn't cause the accident, that was his clumsy wingman, who apparently was so awed by Altos corkscrew that the wing of his Ex-Gear broke off and he collided with Alto. ^^
For me the "rebuilt" of Alto's personality becomes complete when Alto talks to Ranka and notes that while Sheryl can be childish in private she is a complete pro when it comes to work. A lesson he seems to take to heart.
Well, I don't care as much about movie Alto as about series Alto, which is a result of movie Alto being less interesting, due to lack of character development. Also, they took away from him much of the selflessness which he displayed. Although I am judging half a product, so that may still come in movie two.
Interestingly, the early discovery of foul play by both Frontier and Galaxy by the SMS could change events post ep18 completely. I don't see this Alto buy the "it's them or us" manipulations by Leon.
Given that series Alto already was brought into this mindset by the Kamjin-clone ( Temjin? ), got the info also from someone he had more reasons to trust ( Mr. Bilrer ), had no hard evidence to distrust Leon and did not have any evidence to the contrary of what was presented to him, I do not hold his taking Leon and Mr. Bilrer at their words against him.
I see where you are coming from, but for me that makes Alto a weaker character in the movie. I am aware that it is for the reason of time-constraints, but having Alto not have to grow out of his preoccupation with his own problems makes him a less developed character and can only be perceived as a better character arc if someone is already informed by the series. The Alto presented in the movie barely grows as a character.
I see your point but a lack of growth in a character does not necessarily make them weak. Basara for example hardly grows in Macross 7 but his presence forces growth in Mylene, Gamlin and others around him, making him an intriguing character in his own right. It's all a matter of context.
In the movie everything revolves around Sheryl and her development. It's Macross Frontier seen from a different perspective. Anime movies like Utahime are aimed at existing fans of the TV-series. It's interesting to see the way the staff changes elements now the project has come full circle and they can work with the benefit of hindsight.
Well, I don't care as much about movie Alto as about series Alto, which is a result of movie Alto being less interesting, due to lack of character development. Also, they took away from him much of the selflessness which he displayed. Although I am judging half a product, so that may still come in movie two.
It really depends on how the original character development affected the viewer. For me not having to go through the coming of age story again and the greater focus on Sheryl is a double win situation but I can imagine it's less fun for fans who actually like Alto.
Given that series Alto already was brought into this mindset by the Kamjin-clone ( Temjin? ), got the info also from someone he had more reasons to trust ( Mr. Bilrer ), had no hard evidence to distrust Leon and did not have any evidence to the contrary of what was presented to him, I do not hold his taking Leon and Mr. Bilrer at their words against him.
I don't hold it against the character at all, as that mindset was essential for the way the finale of the TV-series played out. (However I find it somewhat self-defeating that the writers take forever in having Alto overcome his personal issues to make him a better person. After which they turn him into the first Macross main protagonist that rejects peaceful coexistence and gives in to Kamjins pov, but that's beside the point.)
More to the point, the first movie shows a fully developed Alto and I don't see him get upset with Ranka over helping/contacting the Vaijira especially as the movie already shows them in a more positive light early on. Leaves me to wonder where this will lead and how this will affect the triangle.
magnuskn
2010-12-10, 05:18
I guess the difference for me is I expect the movie to be a stand-alone story and I am comparing the merit of the characters between series and movie. The only one who comes off better in the movie for me is Ranka and that isn't very hard at all, since she failed so very hard in the series.
And I must say, I never thought that Basara was a good protagonist. The real star of Macross 7 for me is Gamlin. And Gigil. :D
I don't hold it against the character at all, as that mindset was essential for the way the finale of the TV-series played out. (However I find it somewhat self-defeating that the writers take forever in having Alto overcome his personal issues to make him a better person. After which they turn him into the first Macross main protagonist that rejects peaceful coexistence and gives in to Kamjins pov, but that's beside the point.)
I think we need to take into context the antagonists. In the other series, we had aliens who showed the capacity for reason and who were able to communicate with our heroes. Frontier eshewed that for silent killing machines, who attacked Frontier again and again for no apparent reason. It's no wonder that Alto ( and most others ) took a "wipe'em out!" stance against the Vajra.
Yot-chan
2010-12-10, 07:24
I guess the difference for me is I expect the movie to be a stand-alone story and I am comparing the merit of the characters between series and movie.
Did any of the staff or cast ever promise that the movie would be a stand-alone story?
I always figured it was for fans of the TV series, not new viewers.
magnuskn
2010-12-10, 11:38
Did any of the staff or cast ever promise that the movie would be a stand-alone story?
Do I need a particular promise for something so basic?
Yot-chan
2010-12-10, 16:43
Do I need a particular promise for something so basic?
I'd say so. Movies based on TV shows are usually made for people who watch the show.
I didn't go see Sex and the City for precisely that reason. The X-Files movie would've had a lot of confusing scenes for anyone who hadn't watched the show. Anyone who watches The End of Evangelion before seeing the series is to be pitied. Ditto the Ideon movie.
I could go on and on here...
magnuskn
2010-12-10, 17:21
I'd say so. Movies based on TV shows are usually made for people who watch the show.
I didn't go see Sex and the City for precisely that reason. The X-Files movie would've had a lot of confusing scenes for anyone who hadn't watched the show. Anyone who watches The End of Evangelion before seeing the series is to be pitied. Ditto the Ideon movie.
I could go on and on here...
I don't know Ideon. Every single other movie you just cited was a continuation of the series from which it was spawned. If this movie would have been the same, then I'd be on the same page as you.
But it wasn't. It was a retelling, for reasons which I don't really understand ( although I have my suspicions ). And as a stand-alone story, it has the obligation, IMO, to be seen as such and not try to obligate the viewer to view the characters through the lense of the series.
I don't know Ideon. Every single other movie you just cited was a continuation of the series from which it was spawned. If this movie would have been the same, then I'd be on the same page as you.
But it wasn't. It was a retelling, for reasons which I don't really understand ( although I have my suspicions ). And as a stand-alone story, it has the obligation, IMO, to be seen as such and not try to obligate the viewer to view the characters through the lense of the series.
Yot-chan's point still stands though, i mean you're hardly going to find just anyone checking out the Macross Frontier films. They are for fans.
Second film is planned as new material, though anything could happen regarding it's place.
Yot-chan
2010-12-10, 17:46
And as a stand-alone story, it has the obligation, IMO, to be seen as such and not try to obligate the viewer to view the characters through the lense of the series.
Hmm... I see where you're coming from, but I don't agree. I don't see why a retelling MUST be obliged to make everything clear to a new viewer. I think the filmmakers can rely on the fact the most of the people watching the movie have seen the show, and thus don't need a lot of stuff spelled out for them.
Getting philosophical about it, no reboot or remake is truly "stand-alone," since there's always the series or whatever that came before it. The reboot or remake can ignore the original version(s) as much as it wants, but it can't escape it/them.
For me, each iteration of Macross F plays on the strengths of its medium. The TV series told a nice, long serialized story with plenty of time spent developing the world and the characters, because you can do that in a TV show. The movie concentrated on spectacle and economical storytelling, because that's how movies are.
As I've said before, I think the movie was really just the staff saying, "So, you liked the TV show, huh? No watch THIS!" You may demand that the movie be a stand-alone story, but if the movie-makers don't want to play by your rules, that's their choice. Whether you go along with it is your choice, of course. But to criticize the movie for not being something it never promised to be is a little unfair, IMO.
magnuskn
2010-12-10, 18:49
Yot-chan's point still stands though, i mean you're hardly going to find just anyone checking out the Macross Frontier films. They are for fans.
I find this to be a bad mentality for film-making. How would DYRL be perceived today if it let vital characterization progression up to be only informed by knowledge of the series?
Hmm... I see where you're coming from, but I don't agree. I don't see why a retelling MUST be obliged to make everything clear to a new viewer. I think the filmmakers can rely on the fact the most of the people watching the movie have seen the show, and thus don't need a lot of stuff spelled out for them.
Getting philosophical about it, no reboot or remake is truly "stand-alone," since there's always the series or whatever that came before it. The reboot or remake can ignore the original version(s) as much as it wants, but it can't escape it/them.
For me, each iteration of Macross F plays on the strengths of its medium. The TV series told a nice, long serialized story with plenty of time spent developing the world and the characters, because you can do that in a TV show. The movie concentrated on spectacle and economical storytelling, because that's how movies are.
As I've said before, I think the movie was really just the staff saying, "So, you liked the TV show, huh? No watch THIS!" You may demand that the movie be a stand-alone story, but if the movie-makers don't want to play by your rules, that's their choice. Whether you go along with it is your choice, of course. But to criticize the movie for not being something it never promised to be is a little unfair, IMO.
Well, you'll have to find me the quotes from the writers then which say "Oh, and by the way, we totally expect you to have watched the series, because otherwise the characterizations of most characters will be totally hollow!".
In retrospect I am a bit surprised to see how we even arrived at this topic, because my initial complaint was about the movie version of Alto being inferior as a character to the series version. Discussing about how anime movies re-tellings of series are not meant to be viewed without prior knowledge of the series seems like kind of going off a tangent.
Yot-chan
2010-12-10, 19:03
I find this to be a bad mentality for film-making. How would DYRL be perceived today if it let vital characterization progression up to be only informed by knowledge of the series?
Funnily enough, that seems to be the biggest general criticism of the movie.
(What I find odd about it (and similar criticisms of False Diva, and the New Eva Movies) is that no one ever says, "Hey, I saw the movie and I couldn't follow it! What's the deal?" No, it's always, "I saw the TV series, so I was okay, but if someone just saw the movie, then they would be completely lost." Why do people get so worked up over hypothetical viewers?)
And yes, it's a tangent, but I think it's a natural one. You say Alto's characterization suffered, but it's obviously impossible to cram many hours' worth of development into a 2-hour movie. And you've SEEN the series, you KNOW how his development there goes. Is movie Alto SO different that that growth no longer applies?
Is movie Alto SO different that that growth no longer applies?
Honestly, not a single character is wildly different. Mostly, they're superficial changes and plot adequation. IMHO, this is a topic where I disagree with the complainers.
(What I find odd about it (and similar criticisms of False Diva, and the New Eva Movies) is that no one ever says, "Hey, I saw the movie and I couldn't follow it! What's the deal?" No, it's always, "I saw the TV series, so I was okay, but if someone just saw the movie, then they would be completely lost." Why do people get so worked up over hypothetical viewers?)
I agree , and to tug the discussion to a slightly more pragmatic level. People who complain that movies like Utahime would be hard to follow for new viewers are unaware of the realities of the anime industry.
Movies of anime like the TTGL, Nanoha, Fate/Stay night, Eureka 7, Shana, Aquarion, Rahxephon (to name a few) are, just like the False Diva, alternate retellings/compilations. These movies only get shown in a handful of cinema in Japan. In truth they are just expensive specials aimed solely at the fans who will not only buy a movie ticket but are also the intended buyers of the DVD/BR. Note that none of these shows, including Macross Frontier, has any mainstream impact. The makers can safely assume that almost everyone in the movie theatre is aware of the TV-series.
Well, you'll have to find me the quotes from the writers then which say "Oh, and by the way, we totally expect you to have watched the series, because otherwise the characterizations of most characters will be totally hollow!".
I recall a Kawamori interview (I think Yoko Kanno was in it as well) just before Frontier when Satelight was working on or had just completed the Aquarion movie. He stated that the movie offered the animation team a resting period after doing a stressfull 2 cour TV-series while also considering the movie a thank you/reward to the fans for their support. What would be common sense for normal film-making does not apply in this case.
CrowKenobi
2010-12-10, 20:24
If there's going to be a lot of comparisons between the movie and the tv series, this thread isn't the place for it. If needed, I can create a movie/tv comparison thread where you can discuss it all you want. :D
magnuskn
2010-12-11, 04:14
If there's going to be a lot of comparisons between the movie and the tv series, this thread isn't the place for it. If needed, I can create a movie/tv comparison thread where you can discuss it all you want. :D
I am pretty much done with the discussion anyway, since I seem to hold the minority view and it was pretty tangential in the first place. Just let me respond to the one thing that directly relates to the movie.
And yes, it's a tangent, but I think it's a natural one. You say Alto's characterization suffered, but it's obviously impossible to cram many hours' worth of development into a 2-hour movie. And you've SEEN the series, you KNOW how his development there goes. Is movie Alto SO different that that growth no longer applies?
I thought that Alto suffered significantly in the movie due to the lack of his ulterior altruistic motivation to join SMS. While series Alto outwardly stated his hate of Frontier, in retrospect it was easy to spot his distress of the prospect of its destruction and the want to protect his home ( and pay back Gilliams death and fly the VF-25, etc etc ).
Movie Alto is semi-coerced into joining SMS and I think that is a big minus for his character and it changes his motivations on a fundamental level.
I may be prejudging, because I haven't seen part two and I may also be using too fine a tool to parse character motivations, but that is how I feel at the moment about the character. Sheryl also suffers from lack of character progression in the movie and that rankles with me.
How was Alto semi-coerced to join the SMS? I don't remember that...
magnuskn
2010-12-11, 10:58
Ozma: Normally, even if it's a special incident you would be court-martialed for using the state of the art VF-25 without permission.
Alto: But during that time...
Ozma: Correct. We, the SMS, can act independently as a civilian organization. And so, Saotome Alto, it is up to us to decide what to do with you.
Alto: So you want to seal my mouth.
In other versions it is: "So you are blackmailing me".
Well, I could have read the context wrongly on that one, it may well have been that Alto meant that they were blackmailing him on the account of keeping his mouth shut about the whole deal and that he joined later on his free will. But it is never really made that clear, IIRC.
Well, that was exactly my understanding, so you may be onto something, there. :p
DragoZERO
2010-12-11, 19:12
If there's going to be a lot of comparisons between the movie and the tv series, this thread isn't the place for it. If needed, I can create a movie/tv comparison thread where you can discuss it all you want. :D
If the argument hold true, everyone here has seen the TV series so we could discuss that here since it won't be spoiling it at all. However, I say go for it if it's okay to make a new thread and all. The topic will definitely come up again in the future, especially after the second movie airs.
magnuskn
2010-12-12, 03:13
If the argument hold true, everyone here has seen the TV series so we could discuss that here since it won't be spoiling it at all. However, I say go for it if it's okay to make a new thread and all. The topic will definitely come up again in the future, especially after the second movie airs.
I'd say let's wait until then at the least. I really don't know if this particular discussion is worth its on thread.
Tsukiyomi
2011-07-26, 04:10
DYRL was epic and can stand on its own. Despite Frontier movie having epic battle scenes and even reusing some awesome scenes from Macross Plus, it doesn't really stand well on its own.
The new storyline is plagued with plot holes and unclear motives of which the writers spent zero time establishing in the beginning of the movie.
In my opinion there were plenty of filler parts in the movie that were not necessary and could've just been spent on a few shots of someone explaining the plot more deeply.
I didn't really like how the movie was the one that fell fate to the whole human(oids) defeat alien monster concept. At least in the series, there was a hint of mutual connection with Ranka being the ambassador -following in line with what Macross I, II, and 7 was all about.
This movie was more of a mashup between moments from the tv series, ranka x sheryl, no-one-is-a-villain, nudity for all, and happy-go-lucky-everyone-lives..etc..etc..
I don't really know how to rate this movie. Despite the Frontier tv series lack of using Sheryl's heritage, I felt that it was a much stronger message than this movie attempting to flesh out the lineage. I enjoyed the battle scenes, but it was a bit to Michael Bayish. I just know I can't let this movie be anything close to definitive of the Frontier universe.
My one sentence summary:
I felt like i watched a full length Macross porn movie and felt absolutely empty afterwards.
^
If you didn't like the first because it recaps most of the show, with less dogfights and more drama... wait for the second installment (due to be released by October 20), because Wings of Goodbye might change your mind.
Darthtabby
2011-07-26, 18:37
Tsukiyomi, your thoughts sound a bit like the ones I had after seeing the movie. Were you also under the impression that the first movie was supposed to be a retelling while the second movie was to be a sequel? Because apparently both movies together are supposed to be an alternate continuity retelling. You've basically only seen the first half of the movie verse's story so far.
Granted I still much prefer the TV series at this point, but my impression of the first movie improved after I realised it wasn't meant to be the whole story.
I was rewatching this and thought I should share (for those who haven't seen it yet :) ):
Gvwh3r6ev9s
Yot-chan
2011-09-27, 09:29
I was rewatching this and thought I should share (for those who haven't seen it yet :) ):
Damn, that interview was BITTERSWEET!!!
Darthtabby
2011-09-27, 22:40
I'm not sure if this is actually the appropriate thread for that video considering that Kawamori doesn't talk much about Itsuwari no Utahime in there, but even so translated interview with Kawamori=win. Awesome find Raile!
Well, this interview seemed to be around or before Itsuwari. :D But oh well, translated interviews are nice.
P.S. I want that robot dog!! :upset:
He forgot to ask the billion-dollar question:
MR. KAWAMORI, what were you smoking when you made Macross SEVEN?
- Tak
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4261/kawamoribong.jpg
Hey Guys I've got a quick question.
What is considered to be canon? The movies or the TV show?
Personally I preferred the show over the movie due, to the more flushed out and flowing characters. But that is to be expected due to the amount of time a series has to develop characters, whilst movies are confined to a set amount of hours.
P.S Sorry if this is in the wrong thread.
magnuskn
2011-10-07, 03:50
Hey Guys I've got a quick question.
What is considered to be canon? The movies or the TV show?
Personally I preferred the show over the movie due, to the more flushed out and flowing characters. But that is to be expected due to the amount of time a series has to develop characters, whilst movies are confined to a set amount of hours.
P.S Sorry if this is in the wrong thread.
Nah, it's okay. The Q&A thread would be more appropiate, but any thread serves.
None of them are "canon" yet, as the next Macross project hasn't rolled around yet. There are multiple manga adoptations and spin-offs which have differing plots and ending, all of which are not canon, either. Although I'd say that all adaptations I've seen have a similar SxA slant, so take that for what it's worth. :D
Anyway, I certainly hope that they let Michael live for the ""official" continuity.
vansonbee
2011-10-07, 04:05
I also didn't know the TV series isn't consider canon, after all the funding place into it and its 25 episodes of work :eyespin: but I won't complain, I'll be jumping in joy, if they remade the series with more potent and clear evidences that Sheryl x Alto are official.
Thanks for the replies.
Although I'd say that all adaptations I've seen have a similar SxA slant, so take that for what it's worth. :D
It does seem that the stuff I've read/watched hints towards SherylxAlto, which is disappointing for a Ranka Fan :( haha.
Anyway, I certainly hope that they let Michael live for the ""official" continuity.
Speaking of Michael did he actually die in the movie? Last I thing I remember in was Michael looking pretty badly hurt. But I agree it would be great if Michael survived the whole fiasco but in saying that I felt that one of the most powerful moments in the show was when he died.
karice67
2011-10-07, 05:07
Speaking of Michael did he actually die in the movie? Last I thing I remember in was Michael looking pretty badly hurt. But I agree it would be great if Michael survived the whole fiasco but in saying that I felt that one of the most powerful moments in the show was when he died.I personally think you'd enjoy the second film more if you wait until it's out on BD/DVD in less than a month ;)
(though if you really don't want to wait, you can ask/search in the 2nd movie thread...)
I personally think you'd enjoy the second film more if you wait until it's out on BD/DVD in less than a month ;)
(though if you really don't want to wait, you can ask/search in the 2nd movie thread...)
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to the 2nd movie. If my memory serves me correctly it comes out 20th October.
Yot-chan
2011-10-25, 13:45
The origin of "loveslinger" Sheryl:
v9bJn5cpXpE
vBulletin® v3.8.6, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.