RahXephon [Archive] - AnimeSuki Forum

Mao-Yenrai

2003-11-06, 04:09

I also heard that the movie was about ayato and haruka so that should shed some good light on the whole subject, but I wonder...would this make it better to see the movie and then the anime so that you get the background? oh well I should just wait for the movie at anyrate but still...

AS for Rah Xephon being an eva rip...Yeah eva was good but Rah Xephon is just that much better. The parallels are obvious but in terms of characters, eva's got nothing on it. There are moments in Rah that can't be touched.

Only thing though...some plot holes for me. Like the whole freaky kid thing in the mansion...yeah its barbem but what is the clay stuff and why were they in the mansion?

bayoab

2003-11-06, 06:06

A description of the movie (basically spoiler free):

The movie is somewhat like a clip show review of the series with some new footage, a couple edits of the story line in old footage, and a few random things which are there to explain the story better, and a few things....which well, you will see eventually. It also includes a large part of 1 episode (i wont name which). It basically explains the relationships between a few of the characters in more detail. It will feel too much like a recap episode for non-fans with a running time of 2 hours . I cant describe it much better [without spoilers] than a couple doses of "ah-ha", doses of de-ja-vu, a massive dose of "wth", and some "....".

So to answer the question: It is like another look at the series from another angle. It is just the old story retold slightly differently in order to make some things make sense.

animan430

2003-11-06, 19:01

Yea the clay thing confused me too but if the movie is from a different angle then it should be simalar to what they did with the Ender Quartet (novel) And that story went really well so this makes me look forward to the movie.

But no one has answered one of my questions yet.

When will ADV be releasing the movie in America??

ketchupsoup

2004-02-18, 12:44

I watched RaXephon and loved it. The depth and the meaning behind it were very profound. However, I could not identify some of its philosophical elements. So I was wondering if I could get your opinion on what they might be. (i.e "meaning of life", "what is real?", "What is the nature of humans"...) Just some of your opinions and the reasoning behind them would be great. Thanks.

Ballz

2004-02-18, 14:32

A lot of the imagery and what was discussed seemed to have a Hindu flavor to it.

oXKeNsHiNXo

2004-02-19, 20:31

I figured it was about the search for self and an acceptance to what you are meant to be, what your role is to those around you. Pretty much seemed like self discovery and purpose to me. There are prolly other meanings but i need to watch it again... its been a while. :twitch:

Breogan

2004-02-19, 22:33

A lot of the imagery and what was discussed seemed to have a Hindu flavor to it.
Actually it's heavily based in the mexican precolombine cultures (Aztecs and Maian? not sure of the english names). Al lot of the weird-sounding names in the series are actually Nahuatl words (the main language in the mexican empires), and some of them are related to the creation myths and other philosophy related topics, like "IN IXTLI IN YÓLLOTL" which apears in one of the last episodes.

dreamless

2004-02-20, 07:15

RahXephon is basically a story about love across time, with some heavy Aztec religion symbolisms. Olin, Ishtori (Ixtli), Katun, the five circles in Barbem insignia, the Obsidian Butterfly, the destruction and recreation of the world, etc. etc. all come from Aztec belief.

Squall69b

2004-02-21, 19:26

Anyone know if the movie is licensed?
And if yes....when's th release date for the DVD?
Or is it out already?

Ranko

2004-02-21, 20:02

Yes ADV picked it up awile back

and no i don't know when it's comming out

oDin01

2004-02-21, 21:39

ADV licenced this last yet but as of yet hasn't announced any release date for the movie.

I own the R2's for the RahXephon Movie good stuff I'm hoping ADV can translate the extras on the 2-disc set.

Silver_Scorcher

2004-02-21, 22:50

Well considering that the last volume of RahXephon came out in December I'd say, in order to build up the hype and the tension, ADV will probably release the movie in the fall at the earliest. Just a guess though. I hope it comes out earlier but I doubt it.

AnimeOni

2004-02-22, 01:47

I watched it in Japan with my cousin and it answered a lot of questions that the series did not cover. It's pretty good so I hope ADV releases it soon so I can get it.

AnimeOni

2004-02-22, 02:09

More on the Aztec religion and how it relates to RahXephon.

The basis of the Aztec religion is based upon the world being created and demolished by the gods. It has happened four times and this is the fifth time.

The human sacrifices (aka Orin), which were the focal point of many religious rituals, symbolised the continual effort of the Aztec people to repay this blood debt to the gods. Hense the emphasis on the "blue" blood. Blood sacrafice is the ultimate way to honor their gods.

Temples. The Aztec religion focuses on creating temples for their gods. There's quite a lot of Aztec imagery thorughout the entire show.

The gods control human destiny. You will hear throughout the show about destiny and that you cannot go against it. Ayoto's mother keeps on saying that it is futile to resist what has been planned out. Remember when Ayoto left, she was not concerned and said he will return. Destiny.

Creationism. A diety of combined male and female into one being to create a new world. They new "diety" will create the world anew. Same theme as Evangelion with Ikari and Rei. The male (Ayoto) is also an "inpersonator" which houses the actual diety (aka Orin). Ayoto, before the awakening, is confused why Kuon keeps on referring to Ayoto as Orin.

Rain. You will see throughout RahXephon the "rain." It signafies renewal and fertility. Asahina and her one-way love of Ayoto.

Emphasis on time. Time is very important to the storyline. 52 years, the world is anewed. If I remembered right, Ayoto's mom is approaching the 52 years in the "real time" not Tokyo Jupiter time.

There are a few more but I think I have covered the basis. I am not an expert about Aztec religion but I think I got most of it right. Please correct me if I am wrong.

ketchupsoup

2004-02-22, 14:30

Wow. Thanks for the replys. They have been very helpful, and very interesting. :)

roguenoir

2004-02-29, 15:12

I doubt it'll happen but I hope they'll show this in the theatres like they did for Cowboy Bebop.. however, this would also mean spoiling the show for many, but most of the population probably won't bother to watch anime except for an occasional movie that makes it out to the threatres.

Mugen

2004-03-01, 09:05

Ive downloaded the whole series and the movie. Ive watched a few episodes but never really been arsed to watch the whole series for a few reasons. I skimmed/watched the movie because it had no subs and im no good at japanese. I have to say the visuals are very lush, theres some very nice action and also theres some story to it. Its an actual anime movie thats worth buying (when it comes out) :)

Dark Zero

2004-03-03, 19:02

I too am waiting for the movie's release, since I just watched the series completely on dvd, and the movie will just be another 'fix', just need more rahxephon ^_^

Which brings me to a question, I was going to create a thread for this, but I might not have to. In the region1 dvds, disc 3, the 'early production promo' has a great song. Its much easier relying on the promo then telling which episodes had this track. But, does anyone know what the song title and artist is?

SoulDrinker

2004-04-18, 21:23

2 things

1)i just finshed rahxephon and liked it. i hear that others call the anime what eva should have been and ive noticed a few things

*spoiler*
the rei like character, misoto and gendo also. how ayato dosent want to pliot the rahxephon at first, how useless the humans are until they use their enemies tech against them and the becoming gods at the end

2) theirs are also a rahxephon movie and i want to kno where to get it

Yamano667

2004-04-19, 00:42

umm you want to get the movie ..well you CAN buy it,

LIQUIDCELL

2004-07-11, 02:27

I haven't seen all the episode but I would like to know the esence of the last episode.

Ayato pretty much killed both his allies and foes, and the rest finished off each other. After all the havoc, everything went back to normal and no more alien?!
But then Ayato and Reika reunited and I'm lost!

Could someone fluent with this particular anime kindly explain what really happened in the end.

Mamoro and Hiroko got married and had a daughter named afer Quon... Does this made Ayato and Haruka Mishima their ancestor? heheh

Sorry, please someone? heh

Thnx!
-Kirsten

Arwyn

2004-07-11, 13:49

The end of RaXepheon is a little twisted, but not as bad as NGE. Basically it breaks down like so;

As the series ends, Ayato does manage to blow just about everything to hell, BUT, when he "tunes" the world, he has the choice on how to remake the world. Instead of giving the aliens/Babem what they wanted, he decided that what he really wanted was a normal life with Haruka. So, when he remade reality, he "reset" everything to what life would have been like if the events in the series had never happened.

So, he and Haruka were the same age, got married, had a little girl (Quon) and were living a normal life. Thats what Ayato wanted, so he made it happen.

So presumably, all the other characters are alive and well, and living happy normal lives. Haruka says as if you listen to her phone call with her sister at the very end.

dreamless

2004-07-11, 14:03

Hmm... I think it's like

After the world got destroyed and engulfed in an egg, Ayato become the Sixth Sun and God of the Aztec religion, remaking the world with what's left, thus making a new world with his design. So the Ayato and Haruka in the ending is not the original Ayato and Haruka in the series, but the new Ayato and Haruka made by Ayato the God. I think Ayato did not reset the world as if nothing has happened, as hinted by the painting of the skeleton of RahXephon in the end

LIQUIDCELL

2004-07-11, 16:56

1. The Class Reunion Info --- Mamoro and Hiroko Torigai (Haruka Shiras*sp)
2. The Tokyo Tower miniature on the bookshelf
3. Quon reincarnated?
4. The finnished painting of Mamoro
5. Ayato and Mishima Haruka's (instead of Reika Mishima?) first acquiantance

It looks like two existing realities to me? But then again the themes were about time shifting and Mu's invasion. So maybe when RahXephon's tuned in the final anthem, everything was resumed --- where Mu's invasion never occured, and therefore, no RahXephon.
However, their names got all messed up besides Ayato.... and then we see the painting of RahXephon's skeletal remains---which in turn contradict its existence...

I still don't get it.

FlyByNite

2004-07-11, 17:12

Ok now from the anime series... I thought the ending was that Ayato was able to 'tune the world' and create the reality he wanted. He chose to create one where him and Haruka were always together so they grow up together, get married and had a child named Quon who looks like Quon.

Now from the RahXephon movie which was basically just re-using animation from the show with a different ending
It tells you that Ayato had to become the one who tunes the world and keeps time moving forward. He can't have a happy ending with Haruka so what happens is he makes it so that the life he and Haruka could have had together, those memories of a life together are given to Haruka. So they experienced the life together through that.

I kinda prefer the happy ending from the anime though. Something about the movie's ending didn't work for me. Although that may be the ending the anime intended but I just didn't grasp it from what the anime showed.

LIQUIDCELL

2004-07-11, 17:35

Ok now from the anime series... I thought the ending was that Ayato was able to 'tune the world' and create the reality he wanted. He chose to create one where him and Haruka were always together so they grow up together, get married and had a child named Quon who looks like Quon.

Yeah, but then we see the Class Reunion Information for Mamoro and Hiroko Torigai (Haruka lookalike) . . .

It tells you that Ayato had to become the one who tunes the world and keeps time moving forward. He can't have a happy ending with Haruka so what happens is he makes it so that the life he and Haruka could have had together, those memories of a life together are given to Haruka. So they experienced the life together through that.

Don't you mean Mamoro the Doctor? Then it applies to the anime, since we see that the Doctor=Mamoro/Haruka's lookalike husband had painted the girl (Reika)
---means he had Ayato's memories?

But then we see Reika/Haruka Mishima and Ayato's scene = Ending phrase, "And that is how the two met."

*sigh*

dreamless

2004-07-11, 19:52

Let's make this one clear first

Reika Mishima = the name given to Ixtli by Ayato accidentally, which is actually a mistake. she's not a human.

Haruka Mishima = the girl Ayato met when he was 14, who later becomes Haruka Shitou.

5. Ayato and Mishima Haruka's (instead of Reika Mishima?) first acquiantance

I think this is actually a flashback to what happened when Ayato and Haruka were 14, in both versions of reality (ie. the old and the new world), which is not a part of the ending.

LIQUIDCELL

2004-07-11, 20:23

kujoe

2004-07-12, 00:45

Don't you mean Mamoro the Doctor? Then it applies to the anime, since we see that the Doctor=Mamoro/Haruka's lookalike husband had painted the girl (Reika)
---means he had Ayato's memories?
Are you referring to the doctor in charge of Quon? His name is Itsuki. Mamoru is Hiroko's boyfriend. (sort of.)

Regarding the ending,

I saw it as Ayato tuning the world and making a new one by recreating the old--a give-and-take amalgam that also (sort of) reconciles the gap between the humans and the Mu. The painting sort of hints at this. Hence, Quon exists in the new world as Ayato and Haruka's daughter, Hiroko and Mamoru aren't Mu anymore--which further gives me the impression that some of the characters of the old world continue to exist in the new one. So in this case, I also assume that it's possible that Maya exists in the new world as Ayato's mother--or stepmother--while Itsuki also continues to exist as his brother. After all, I assume the conditions of how Ayato and Haruka originally met are still more or less the same in the new world. (--something related to Ayato's father meeting Haruka's uncle I think.)

Dagger

2004-07-12, 05:21

Regarding Itsuki and Ayato--

I sort of assumed they had.... become one person, or something to that effect. Admittedly, my assessment is based on the fact that Ayato borrowed his hairstyle toward the end of the last episode and chose to become close to Quon (who is probably more important to Itsuki than to Ayato). Throughout the series, I had trouble figuring out whether Itsuki was in love with Haruka or Quon.

dreamless

2004-07-12, 05:35

Itsuki was obviously in love with Haruka. Quon is just his little sister I think... or is it...

love towards his mother :D

maybe Quon also had the motherly love towards Ayato :p

for one moment I thought Quon was in love with the commander :heh:

kujoe

2004-07-12, 05:57

I sort of assumed they had.... become one person, or something to that effect. Admittedly, my assessment is based on the fact that Ayato borrowed his hairstyle toward the end of the last episode and chose to become close to Quon (who is probably more important to Itsuki than to Ayato). Throughout the series, I had trouble figuring out whether Itsuki was in love with Haruka or Quon.
I also considered that possibility, but I would like to think that they remain as two separate persons--sort of like a compromise between the series and the movie. (In the movie, Ayato and Itsuki aren't considered as genetic brothers but as two different people who aren't related by blood...I think.) Since both are technically twins in the series, (?) it was the act of painting that convinced me that the person in the end with Haruka is none other than Ayato.

Regarding who Itsuki is in love with--in the series, it's Haruka but in the movie, it's Quon. In the series, Itsuki sort of resented Ayato because for all that time, he felt that Quon (Ayato and Itsuki's "mother") neglected him for Ayato. In the movie, it's my assumption that they did away with the confusing family ties that bound Ayato, Itsuki and Quon in the series. If I remember correctly, Ayato in the movie was simply Maya's love child from an unknown man.

dreamless

2004-07-14, 04:14

kujoe

2004-07-14, 06:22

I don't really think the Mulians are aliens... in one episode Ayato's Mulian classmate said something like "why do you think the sky and the ocean are blue? because they belong to the ones with blue blood", I think that implies that Mulians are native to Earth...
If by aliens you mean "from outer space" then yes, I also think that the Mulians aren't aliens. I don't think they are literally native to the Earth however, and it's something I've been wondering about myself.

On one episode, Ayato and Quon enter a tunnel and get "spirited away"--and it's in this episode (along with abrupt snapshots from proceeding episodes) that seems to suggest where the Mulians come from. Mulians didn't come from another planet, but perhaps from another dimension overlapping the human world. Interestingly, Quon and Maya were also found nearby the same tunnel a long time ago. They too are also Mulians, and as Haruka herself finds out later on through some records, they're also the first to have ever appeared in the human world. It is also suggested that Barbem was also spirited away hundreds of years ago, (or was it thousands?) from which he acquired the means and the knowledge to create the Xephon system.

I don't like the movie, and I'd never mix the movie with the TV series.
And no, I'm not overlapping the movie and the series pound for pound. My assumptions are primarily based on the series itself--which I consider as a personal "canon" of sorts. I'm just saying that certain details from the series itself are more elaborated in the movie--such as Ayato's pre-Tokyo Jupiter school days for example. I think it would be safe to allow some comparisons with regard to these.

dreamless

2004-07-14, 06:52

Hmm... my take on the Mulians is that they were originally on Earth building great civilizations, but due to a failed tuning with RahXephon millennia ago, they were exiled to an alternate dimension... I thought Barbem was the original designer of RahXephon, living thousands of years...

one question, I still don't quite understand who set up that time shift shield around Tokyo Jupiter. the Terra forces seem to try to destroy the time shift shield, but later in the series it's said that the shield is there to seal the Mulians... did Barbem set up the shield?

kujoe

2004-07-14, 07:09

one question, I still don't quite understand who set up that time shift shield around Tokyo Jupiter. the Terra forces seem to try to destroy the time shift shield, but later in the series it's said that the shield is there to seal the Mulians... did Barbem set up the shield?
Uhm...wasn't that the Mulians' doing? :confused: I'm not not sure either. I always had the impression that were three separate groups in the entire story--TERRA, the Mulians and the Barbem Foundation. They do have different interests after all. While the Mulians wanted to tune the world to their liking, here comes TERRA trying to save what's left of humanity. And then there's Barbem...who either wanted to tune the world for himself (through Quon) or who simply wanted to be the self-proclaimed god that would pave its way.

dreamless

2004-07-14, 07:20

I think both Terra and Mulians are just Barbem's play things. Barbem controls Terra, and Barbem controlled Maya, who is the Mulian leader... Maya later rebelled against Barbem, but even the rebellion seems to be under Barbem's plan...

I think it showed in the end that everything went according to Barbem's plan, Barbem himself said (in Helena's form) that what he wanted was to see the God he created creates the world... I guess he got what he wanted in the end...

kujoe

2004-07-14, 08:26

I had the same assumption as well. Barbem was really more of a schemer behind the scenes. By paving the way for certain events, he was able to put the two Olins against each other in the final battle. But since Ayato was just a supplementary catalyst of sorts for Quon, I kinda assumed that Barbem expected Quon to win--which of course didn't happen due to Quon helping Ayato in the end. I guess it wouldn't really matter who won as long as Barbem got what he wanted.

T2R

2004-12-04, 06:13

husyk

2004-12-04, 23:16

I hope this is in the right forum..

I just had a general question for episode 10..the one where the Commander takes a day off.

To be honest..I was keeping up with it okay then I just got lost..so just to make sure, I figured I would ask here.

Can someone explain the episode to me?

For example..who was he meeting on the boat? (I thought it was his daughter he was going to meet but they were talking like it was someone else then I saw the graveyard scene and I got a bit confused) What happened to his daughter exactly then? Why was Quon trying to finish the song for the Commander? Who were they talking about had a future? What was all that bomb talk with the reporter at the stadium? Things like that.

Thank you in advance if anyone can help.

I just finished watching the series and movie a few days ago. You'll get a better understanding of that episode when nearing the end of the series. From what I understood, he met his exwife on the day of their dead daughter's birthday. His daughter had a talent for music. He was the cause of her death because he was the one who pushed the button to create the barrier in Tokyo. His daughter was killed by his actions, and he, his wife can never forgive him from that.

Here's another question, is the original story more accurate with the series, or the movie? At least in terms of Quon, she had a large role in the series, but small in the movie. But still a very important character in both productions.

kujoe

2004-12-06, 12:41

He was the cause of her death because he was the one who pushed the button to create the barrier in Tokyo. His daughter was killed by his actions, and he, his wife can never forgive him from that.
If I remember correctly, he's the one who gave the order to launch some missile. I'm not so sure about that though.

Here's another question, is the original story more accurate with the series, or the movie? At least in terms of Quon, she had a large role in the series, but small in the movie. But still a very important character in both productions.
They're two different stories. The movie is simply a retelling from another point of view, but the whole story diverges from the series. Personally, I consider the series as having more legitmacy over the movie--since the movie is recommended for those who've already finished the series. After all, if you watched the movie first, then one of the plot twists in the RahXephon series has already been revealed to you.

Chosen

2004-12-06, 13:43

I saw my 10th episode of Rah Xephon today, I love the characters and the story plot. Thought there is some similarities between RahXephon and Evangelion, I can say with ease I like this serie WAY better.

Forbin

2004-12-06, 14:38

Just remember that AFTER you are done with the series, watch the Movie. You will be pissed (As they change the storyline), but it does cover all the missing parts of the series.

T2R

2004-12-10, 12:13

Forbin

2004-12-10, 12:27

Did you watch the movie? You won't be confused. Trust me...you might be a little pissed off, but defintely not confused.

husyk

2004-12-10, 12:29

...Alright, so I just finished watching the series and I don't even know where to start on how confused I am. :(

Perhaps I'll go back and read some of these posts since I avoided them earlier for spoilers.

I suggest watching the movie actually, its pretty much a recap of the series with new footage making the story clearer overall, there are noticeable diferences in the plot from the series. The movie is from Haruka's point of view.

T2R

2004-12-10, 12:43

Working on getting it now.. ; ) It'll be a while though. :(

Okay..this might be an odd question but what the heck was the use of Futagami shooting Bahbem at the end?

I mean..if Ayato was going to tune the world anyway, I don't see why the series producers would put that in since everyone would be gone and "reset" so to speak.

(On a side note.. Itsuki reminds me of Jin from Samurai Champloo and vice versa. Don't ask..I'm not terribly sure myself. O_o; )

There are other questions too..Like

Who was Ayato's father..or is that not really revealed anyway..

If Maya wasn't Ayato's biological mother then who was, if there was one..

I'm still wondering what Quon's connection was to Itsuki and Ayato..

Did Bahbem exist before everyone else in the series..Where did he find the Xephon system, meaning where did he go for it..(I am guessing something to do with the Mu because he went to them or something, didn't he? Then that would mean the Mu were around before him. Then how did Maya become the leader of the Mu, she hadn't been around as long as Bahbem. Ah man..I'm a mess.)

What is the significance of Itsuki, Makato, and Helena if Quon and Ayato were to be the "ones" anyway...

Did Bahbem go through all that trouble just to recreate the world in the way we saw in the series..

Why did Maya keep calling Quon an "Elder Sister"..

I think I might know this but to be sure..what was Kunugi's and dang, I forgot his name but he had the bird cage in the end. I'm so overloaded right now I can't even remember names..but what was their tie with Ayato's uncle?

Some others, but I can't think of them right now.

X____X; I'm confused? Yes..yes, that I am. :twitch:

Forbin

2004-12-10, 14:23

Oooo a long one...

When you see the movie you will understand more but here's a spoiler

1) Bahbem was a power mad hungry SoB who eats people (literaly) Futagami was just piised

2) Ayato wasn't to reset the world, he was to keep it from fragmenting further. (The movie even explains that he stayed with Quon in heaven to prevent this from happening any further)

3) Well this is one of the more 'f'd up items. In the series Quon is his mother/father (Ayato is a clone). In the Movie his father dead? I can't remember

4) Series - Quon , Movie - I thought it was Maya, she was preggers when the Mulians caught them?

5) I'm not sure which one Itsuki was.

6) Bahbem made the Raxephon system to control the world. He was immortal after all. He was a Mulian. Maya is leader because of her power? I'm not too sure after all this time.

7) They were pilots of other Tuners. They were there to help 'pave' the way for the one.

8) He wanted in recreated where he was a god. He got stuck on the wrong side after the split that Raxephon caused and has been waiting for his chance to change the world.

9) Because they ARE sisters, and Quon is older (Well that machine kept her younger). Maya gave up her chance to pilot Raxephon and married Ayato's Dad.

10) Which one is Kunugi?

Extra : The movie focused on Haruka's and Ayato's love. The fact that she was Reika when she was younger (yellow dress and all), and Maya found them kissing. So she created Tokyo Jupiter (While Haruka was outside the city) to let Ayato mature without any outside influence. I guess she wanted him and that pink haired girl to get together.

kujoe

2004-12-10, 18:43

There was this long RahXephon discussion (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Number=273037) at the forums of animeondvd.com which really helped me understand the series a bit more. There was this RahXephon thread over at Ars Anime which did a lot of brainstorming too, but I can't seem to find it. Hope this helps. :)

Also, repeated viewings do wonders sometimes. (I've watched it 3 times! The 3rd time was through the dvds.) You tend to notice new things after the first time you get a feel for the series.

And like Forbin has said, watch the movie. Some stuff are clearer there, but be warned that the series and the movie aren't exactly one and the same.

T2R

2004-12-13, 04:40

That is also why I am hesitant to watch it but we'll see.

If Bahbem was Mulian then why was he in the actual world and the other Mu trying to attack?

I suppose it was to set Ayato off to do his tuning as Bahbem wanted...that would be my understanding.

Daniwindscar

2006-03-18, 18:01

Who's everyone's RahXephon Person. Girl or Boy..Doesn't matter......:D

Daniwindscar

2006-03-19, 12:15

I'm Also a huge RahXephon Fan....I started to watch it on ep 3....Since then I cant get enough.....I like Quon and Itsuki. Does anyone know why RahXephon Wasn't on Friday and if there still going to air it.....? I'm worried to miss a single ep and I would be so mad at myself.....If anyone wants to IM me its alright with me....I'm so bored......RahXephon Rocks and I'll remain a Fan......

EvaXephon

2006-07-21, 01:15

If you're a fan of either Evangelion or RahXephon, or if you hate one of the abovementioned shows, I'd really like to show you this website.

http://evaxephon.com

Yes, it's my own website, but I'm not just here to plug it, I want it to spark a healthy debate about Evangelion and RahXephon. What I want you to discuss is whether or not RahXephon copied Evangelion.

In my opinion, RahXephon is a very entertaining show, but it is a clone of Evangelion, scene-for-scene, word-for-word, character-for-character. Don't believe me? Seen both shows, and disagree? Then please take a look at my site. I've composed a 17-page gallery of 165 similarities between Evangelion and RahXephon that I think proves that RahXephon copies Evangelion from beginning to end. I only hesitate to use the term 'rip-off' because it's so negative and because I still like RahXephon anyway.

Please take a look at the 'Similarities' section of my website, browse the galleries, and then come back here and tell me what you think. I'm really interested in hearing someone try to tell me that RahXephon is not a complete clone of Evangelion.

DjTrizz

2006-07-21, 01:18

ya know...that's beyond creepy

bayoab

2006-07-21, 02:05

Please take a look at the 'Similarities' section of my website, browse the galleries, and then come back here and tell me what you think. I'm really interested in hearing someone try to tell me that RahXephon is not a complete clone of Evangelion.
RahXephon is not a complete clone of Evangelion
1) Anything involving subs is grabbing at strings. Only if the Japanese matches exactly can you consider it a match.
2) The events are not in the same order. (See 4).
3) Some of the scenes may match, but a lot of them are stereotypical to the genre. A lot of them are stereotypical in general! (Blushing main characters, females with large chests, etc.)
4) Your comparison basically says "Look, there are two scenes in 24^24 frames that are the same." I admit the odds of that happening 200 times or so is not high. But the probability of 100 similarities in the same genre is still very very high. (Look at any two giant robot shows.)

I can go on and on but #4 basically says it all.

EvaXephon

2006-07-21, 02:22

2) The events are not in the same order. (See 4).

Not all of them are, but many of them are.

4) Your comparison basically says "Look, there are two scenes in 24^24 frames that are the same." I admit the odds of that happening 200 times or so is not high. But the probability of 100 similarities in the same genre is still very very high. (Look at any two giant robot shows.)

It's understandable to see two giant robots fight in the giant robot genre. But not a giant white human being. Eva has lots of scenes that are definately not typical to the giant robot genre, and Rah has many of those non-typical scenes from Eva.

kujoe

2006-07-21, 03:00

Evangelion is also guilty of having some similarities with other shows actually. It isn't as original as people make it out to be. But of course, similarites between RahXephon and Evangelion are pretty obvious with one glaring exception: the main direction.

No need for spoiler caps, I presume, so I'll just plainly say it. RahXephon is essentially a love story. NGE isn't. The other is more of a psychological drama with a fair share of plot twists and symbolisms. NGE uses Judeo-Christian motifs and symbols; RahXephon uses art, music and Mayan myth. One can also try arguing that both are somewhat Freudian or Lacanian in nature.

EvaXephon

2006-07-21, 03:20

Evangelion is also guilty of having some similarities with other shows actually.

It doesn't matter if Eva copied another anime. That's irrelevant. The issue here is that RahXephon copied Eva. That is not changed if Eva copied something else.

kujoe

2006-07-21, 03:32

Yes, I understand the topic is about those two, which is why I shifted my first statement back to the both of them. I just wanted to qualify a bit what I was about to say.

But I can now see where your bias lies at least.

EvaXephon

2006-07-21, 03:33

Yes, I understand the topic is about those two, which is why I shifted my first statement back to the both of them. I just wanted to qualify what I was about to say.

But I can now see where your bias lies at least.

I'm sorry about that, when I made this topic before, the discussion INSTANTLY switched to attacking Evangelion and talking about everything it copied from. I wanted to nip that in the bud before the entire topic was derailed by making a stern statement not to go in that direction.

Sorry if my statement seemed hostile.

MrProphet

2006-07-21, 05:17

On the nature of RahXephon's similarity to Eva, read Yutaka Izubuchi's interview with Mamoru Oshii in the RX movie booklet.

That's all I can say on the matter. 8)

kujoe

2006-07-21, 06:52

@EvaXephon: Hey, no problem.

On the nature of RahXephon's similarity to Eva, read Yutaka Izubuchi's interview with Mamoru Oshii in the RX movie booklet.

This reminds me... Anyone have RahXephon Complete? I heard that it has an interview with Yutaka Izubuchi and Hideaki Anno.

MrProphet

2006-07-21, 07:53

This reminds me... Anyone have RahXephon Complete?

What's that? Some kind of a reference book akin to RahXephon Bible?

I have ADV's R1 release of RahXephon, and it had a bunch of booklets with background info and interviews, but not one with Anno, AFAIR.

Catgirls

2006-07-21, 07:57

What's that? Some kind of a reference book akin to RahXephon Bible?I think he might be talking about the box set (complete with R2 artwork):

Rahxephon - Complete Collection (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000929VA4/103-5424615-9711036?v=glance&n=130)

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6209/b000929va401ss500sclzzzzzzzv1113670474wu6.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b000929va401ss500sclzzzzzzzv111367047 4wu6.jpg)

the.Merines

2006-07-21, 08:25

I must say that back before RahXephon got its U.S. release, I was mostly interested in it because people drew comparisions between RX and EVA. Having seen EVA many times, I have been satisfied to say that the two are similar. IMO, however, they are different enough that anyone who would complain about RahXephon being a "copy" of EVA is trying to actually justify something else.

I felt like RahXephon was much better explained than EVA and much less deep, psychologically. The Dolem are pretty much totally explained, whereas the Angels are still for the most part mysteries throughout EVA. The Bahbem Foundation is also explained well (background, plans, etc) whereas SEELE is mostly just there to further the story and serve as the ultimate enemy.

I only felt compelled to look at the first couple pages of your comparisons, but I must say it seems you are grasping at straws. A lot of the comparisions I read are commonplace in anime, not just EVA, or are comonplace occurrances. Haruka/Elvy have totally different motivations than Misato. Waking up in a hospital after a battle, seeing the light above you first of all... These are also commonplace actions/reactions. Your website is very pretty, but maybe you should just present the idea and ask people to draw their own concusions, rather than force your point of view down people's throats.

MrProphet

2006-07-21, 08:32

I think he might be talking about the box set (complete with R2 artwork):

Rahxephon - Complete Collection (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000929VA4/103-5424615-9711036?v=glance&n=130)

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6209/b000929va401ss500sclzzzzzzzv1113670474wu6.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b000929va401ss500sclzzzzzzzv111367047 4wu6.jpg)

This looks a lot like the R1 thinpak release ADV did some time ago. I doubt it had anything that the regular boxset (which I have) lacked. However, you are free to correct me on this. 8)

kujoe

2006-07-21, 09:07

What's that? Some kind of a reference book akin to RahXephon Bible?
Yes, it's also a book. I heard it covers whatever RahXephon Bible misses. Here's a link. (http://www.hlj.com/cgi-perl/tanoue/freedompage.cgi?Code=MDF11019)

yellowkaiq

2006-07-24, 15:20

At first, I thought this anime sucked. So many unanswered questions, and too many loose ends. But as the series progressed, everything came together perfectly with a little thinking, and I ended up with a good vibe off of this anime. I enjoyed it, and loved the ending.

Now, time to find a RX avatar.

arias

2006-08-10, 02:20

On the nature of RahXephon's similarity to Eva, read Yutaka Izubuchi's interview with Mamoru Oshii in the RX movie booklet.

That's all I can say on the matter. 8)

I HAVE TO KNOW!!!

kujoe

2006-08-10, 06:35

I HAVE TO KNOW!!!
From the booklet, Mamoru Oshii's words:

That's true, but in the case of Anno, he was aware of being "a copy of a copy." In other words, that's Anno's stance. The very existence of self-consciousness, you could say it's the position you're standing in when creating something. Other directors aren't even conscious that what they're making are copies.

. . . . In my mind, the greatest achievement of Eva is that it was self-aware of being a copy. That was a huge change, and it was a big turning point. That's why I pay attention to Anno. Not about what he's going to make next but as a situation.
That's the gist of it. Am I the only getting the GITS: SAC vibes from Oshii's words here? :heh:

Anyway, I'm actually more curious of what Anno says in RahXephon Complete.

MrProphet

2006-08-10, 07:32

Am I the only getting the GITS: SAC vibes from Oshii's words here? :heh:

I doubt that. Considering the last scene of 2nd Gig could not have been a coincidence, I doubt that it's Oshii's stab at Kamiyama. After all, there are plenty other directors who don't realize that their life's work has a distinct been there, done that feeling.

kujoe

2006-08-10, 07:48

Yeah, I know. I just found it amusing how it reminds me of GITS all of a sudden, considering that it was a quote from Oshii.

arias

2006-08-10, 09:13

I read that Oshii directly criticized Pluralitas Concerto for its flaws.. any information on that?

I guess also, the insinuation was that Yutaka Izubuchi was unaware of Rahxephon being a copy? Hm.

kujoe

2006-08-10, 10:39

I read that Oshii directly criticized Pluralitas Concerto for its flaws.. any information on that?
He did. But like he says so himself, he and Izubuchi have different standards and rules when they do their work. He even called him "naive" (in an ambivalent good way..) but because of these differences, he also can't see himself working with Izubuchi in the future.

I guess also, the insinuation was that Yutaka Izubuchi was unaware of Rahxephon being a copy? Hm.
I'm not sure about this, since it's only Oshii who was talking at this point. Or maybe he was trying to imply that? I don't know.

Oshii is rather harsh in his critique—not to mention, they do have this senpai-kouhai kind of respect for one another—but at the same time he isn't saying that the movie "sucked."

MrProphet

2006-08-10, 10:47

I guess also, the insinuation was that Yutaka Izubuchi was unaware of Rahxephon being a copy? Hm.

He isn't exactly critisizing, but more like saying... well, I'll just quote the whole of Oshii's monologue that relates to RahXephon and Evangelion

Oshii: The other thing I thought of was about copying. Quite aptly, Anno declared himself a copy, saying, "I'm a copy of a copy". But this is "a copy of a copy of a copy". In the future, there will undoubtly be "a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy", and undoubtly, this chain of copies will continue. Animation has also already entered this world, and there no longer are such things as originals.

Izubuchi: But the easy path that you mentioned earlier is a part of a world that has exister sinca a long time ago.

Oshii: That's true, but in the case of Anno, he was aware of being "a copy of a copy". In other words, that's Anno's stance. The very existence of self-consciousness, you could say it's the position you're stayng in when creating something. Other directors aren't even conscious that what they're making are copies.

Of course, I don't mind at all if they are copies. We've been making copies for 100 years, so new stories, new situations, and new scene allocations don't exist. Everthing references other things, and I'm fully aware of that. The issue is if you are doing it intentionally and how conscious you are that what you're making is a copy.

These days, the fact that there is no controversy concerning copying in animation and that there's no awareness of it is a big problem. In my mind, the greatest achievement of EVA is that it is self-aware of being a copy. That was a huge change, and it was a big turning point. That's why I pay attention to Anno. Not about what he's going to make but as a situation.

And that's where RahXephon popped up. From my perspective, I thought, "Oh, this is definitely Butchan" He sure is working as naively as ever," (laughs). I keep saying this, but I'm not saying that in a negative way. Of course, speaking from my position, it's undoubtly an all out denial, but in terms of human nature, that was truly Butchan. And he's "the king of naivety", as it were (laughs).

In that sense, I went home feeling warm somehow (laughs). I need Butchan to keep walking down that path from now on as well. You master that "king of naivety" to the very end.

Izubuchi: You're telling me to consciously master that (laughs) But for this job, I don't really know if it's a copy of not, but I did feel like I wanted to try and see if that route couldn't be followed once more. I suppose that might mean that it's a copy of a route that's perpetuated to this day.

Oshii: No matter what reasons you line up now, ultimately, you're a man who yields to his fetishes. There's a part of me that's like that, too, which is why I've been able to keep up with you, and I really understand that well. Why you just have to see that quad cannon (laughs).

But it's probably going to end with Butchan. There's no doubt that after this, copies that aren't aware of being copies are going to become prevalent. In the end, there isn't much in existence that possesses the full weight of fantasy.

xekuhz

2006-09-23, 01:26

kujoe

2006-09-23, 05:24

okok i know a lot of people already asked the question and i have read the replys but im a bit retarded and i still don't really get the ending TTOTT im sorry

umm yea there are spoilers from this point on
so mishima reika is Ixtli and she says that her form is what he secretly desires
so quan Ixtli at first looks like reika but then she turns into ayato
so does that mean that reika is in the form of haruka when she was younger?
and in the last scene with the girl playing piano with long hair it is haruka right when they were in high school?
and you guys says that he created a new world and made a life of him a haruka together, because he put that memory into haruka???? TTOTT as you can see im so dumbly confused. so if someone can please help me i'd really appreciate it.
Man, it's been so long... I'll try to answer through rough memory.

--so mishima reika is Ixtli and she says that her form is what he secretly desires
so quan Ixtli at first looks like reika but then she turns into ayato
so does that mean that reika is in the form of haruka when she was younger?
Yes.

--so quan Ixtli at first looks like reika but then she turns into ayato
Yes, because Ayato is actually her son.

--and in the last scene with the girl playing piano with long hair it is haruka right when they were in high school?
Yes. Also, remember his painting? He actually painted Haruka, not Reika.

--and you guys says that he created a new world and made a life of him a haruka together, because he put that memory into haruka????
The series and the movie have actually different endings.

In the anime series, Ayato re-tunes the world so to speak, where the world of the Mu and the human world became practically one, and as if he and Haruka were never separated in the first place. However, some retconning takes place. Quon is now his daughter, not his mother. And his friends, Hiroko and Mamoru are no longer Mu but humans in the new world. Thus, I assume (read: personal speculation) that Maya is his true mother now along with Itsuki as his twin brother. Basically, it's what the world of RahXephon would be like if it wasn't complicated.

It does make me wonder though how Isshiki, Itsuki and Sayoko are doing, considering how their relationship played out in the series. Of course, this is assuming that they exist in the re-tuned world as they more or less were like in the old world, but I personally believe that they're also alive and well. Isshiki wouldn't be so messed up, finally finding a place for himself. And perhaps Itsuki and Sayoko are finally seeing each other face to face. Well, before he dies in the old world, Itsuki sort of hints that (maybe) he would've given he and Sayoko a chance if he could do things all over again. So yes, I hope life is better for them now personally.

Interestingly, as one of his paintings imply, Ayato still has memories of the old world.

The movie on the other hand, has its differences from the series. For example, Itsuki isn't Ayato's brother at all and actually desires Quon as a lover, and not as a son who desires the attention of his mother. The familial relationships are simplified in the movie, and the ending is also different from the series.
Here, I found an informative site (http://www.kenoki.com/nko/faq1.html) for you. Happy reading.

MrProphet

2006-09-23, 06:09

As far as I remember about Quon...

Quon is not strictly Ayato's and Itsuki's mother. Maya did use Quon's genetic material to create them, but I've always assumed that Maya gave the actual birth to them. Since Quon was in coma at the time, I don't see how she could have done it herself.

BTW, here's a great timeline of the events that partly explains many mysteries and backstories:http://www.khantazi.org/Rec/Anime/MuTimeline.html

kujoe

2006-09-23, 06:40

As far as I remember about Quon...

Quon is not strictly Ayato's and Itsuki's mother. Maya did use Quon's genetic material to create them, but I've always assumed that Maya gave the actual birth to them. Since Quon was in coma at the time, I don't see how she could have done it herself.
I figured that...

...while the genetic material of Ayato and Itsuki is from Quon, they were actually born through artificial means, after which Ayato was simply given to Maya for her to raise. If Ayato's actual birth is due to Maya, that would mean that she also brought Itsuki to life. Where was this implied?

MrProphet

2006-09-23, 07:52

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2006-09-23, 07:54

I figured that...

...while the genetic material of Ayato and Itsuki is from Quon, they were actually born through artificial means, after which Ayato was simply given to Maya for her to raise. If Ayato's actual birth is due to Maya, that would mean that she also brought Itsuki to life. Where was this implied?
Actually, it was specifically stated in the show's scripts that Maya didn't give birth to Ayato. But as Maya said, "I would if only I could". Very likely, Maya once considered the possibility of carrying Ayato in her own womb. But it appears not to be achievable.

kujoe

2006-09-23, 08:02

The question is what does "artificial means" mean?

Even if they were concieved in vitro, they'd have to have been carried to term by someone.

It's not like Rikudoh or Shiroh had artificial wombs stashed somewhere.
Well, considering that Itsuki, Helena and Isshiki were raised in a very controlled environment during their early years along with the others, (clones?) I suppose the clues would lie there. With the knowledge they possess, I guess "anything" is possible from a technological perspective. Really, I have no idea.

Actually, it was specifically stated in the show's scripts that Maya didn't give birth to Ayato. But as Maya said, "I would if only I could". Very likely, Maya once considered the possibility of carrying Ayato in her own womb. But it appears not to be achievable.
So I'm wondering how were they born then, if it isn't achievable through her. Or are you saying that it isn't achievable at all?

Vallen Chaos Valiant

2006-09-23, 08:14

So I'm wondering how were they born then, if it isn't achievable through her. Or are you saying that it isn't achievable at all?
Well... I don't know enough to be able to answer that. All we know, is that Ayato and his brother were both born as potential future tuners of the world, with only Ayato being chosen. Maya was involved in Ayato's creation, and does have maternal feelings towards him. All we know, is that despite her desire for the contrary, Ayato was not raised in Maya's womb.

My best guess, is that a tuner of the world required so much tweaking technologically/genetically, that they can't let Ayato mature in Maya's womb for 9 months and mess up his growth. This is only a guess, however. There is plenty of evidence that artificial wombs had likely been developed behind the scenes, as otherwise the large numbers of clone pilots would not be practical.

LonelyMachines

2006-10-02, 19:09

I noticed something odd that I've not seen explained anywhere. When Ayato and Quon are flying into Tokyo Jupiter, Quon sees the Vermillion and says, "I hate that thing."

It's odd, because she rarely talks in the first person, and she seems unusually emphatic about it. I assume there's some subtext I'm missing. I know the Vermillions were "mass-produced" Dolems using Mr. Peroxide-Hair as the template pilot, but Quon didn't seem to mind the big Dolem that showed up to greet them.

So, why the disgust with the Vermillion (which wasn't even piloted by a D)?

the.Merines

2006-10-02, 22:10

Maybe because, Quon being a Mu, she would hate the bastardized versions of Dolem, which are Mu from another dimension...

Or something like that? I haven't watched the series in a while.

kauldron26

2006-10-08, 20:15

Rahxephon is first and foremost an absolutely incredible love story. Arguably the greatest love story in all of anime. What would you do if you lost the love of your life at 15. How much would it change your life? would you be able to move on? This is what Rahxephon is about... forget about the stupid inevitable comparisons with Evangelion, because Evangelion does not come close to the greatness of this anime.

The animation, im my own humble opinion is perfect. Not one single flaw nor weak episode. Some scenes surpass greatness thanks to the directors incredible eye. The colors and designs hit you like an anvil full of beauty and emotion. Every line and curve serve a greater purpose in the telling of this story.

The sound is truly phenomenal. The theme of the anime itself is sound, and how sound cand be used and derived from different forms. Sound can be used to create, destroy and express. In RahXephon, BONES takes imagination and knowledge to a whole new level when they incorporate the concept of sound and how it pertains to the story.

The story is by far the greatest part of this anime. What is love? can love die? Does love ever go away? can you fall out of love with someone u truly love? what is family? can we relate to concepts and people we do not understand? These are the questions that Rahxephon raises.

The characters in this anime stayed with me for days and days after watching this masterpiece. Ayato and Haruka's love transcend time and space. Even heaven and hell could not stop their love. There is not a single weak or annoying character in this show and every character is fleshed out and serves a purpose.

The value of this anime is tremendous. I have seent this 3 times and it only gets better and better, because u learn and discover more depth. There are so many reasons why this anime is a masterpiece that its impossible to list them all. Rahxephon is not just a show, its an experience that grabs you and never lets you go. Take a ride to Tokyo-Jupiter, and u will never be the same.

yellowkaiq

2006-10-08, 22:12

yo man, i feel you. At first, when i watched Rahxephon, i thought it was just an eva ripoff and incredibly childish. But after contemplating on its themes, I realized that it has tremendous values and subtleties. It is an incredible love story, and I loved it.

Yolteotl

2007-06-02, 16:38

first off, i would like to thank all of you. RahXephon is and always will be the best thing that ever happened to anime. for your support of it, i shall send you happiness vibes.*vibe sending....done!*

also, does anyone else have the rahxephon manga? i only have vol. 3 but ive read all of it.

personally i prefer it to the anime, but that may be because of my manga preference over anime.

and to those of you wondering about its symbolism, all i can say is that the human mind may not even be able to comprehend all of its meanings. i can only state that
without balance, harmony and music, existence is only made for hate, violence, and mistrust. love is the greatest power in all of the universe.

in actuality, that statement does not even begin to describe the feelings and meanings rahxephon inspired in my soul.

I hope you can understand.

Yolteotl

2007-06-02, 16:42

The sound of the soul can be a powerful weapon of destruction or a soft blanket of warmth and comfort to others.

ItachiGT

2007-07-03, 04:18

An anime which can touches one soul.
I watched this series a few years ago.

BUt thing which bothers me is the ending. I don't quite understand ist, or does anyone?

Also pretty dissappointing the resonance here i must say.
This is a great story with a strong relatio to music. Just a wonderful complex anime.

Westlo

2007-07-03, 04:45

What about the ending do you not understand?

ItachiGT

2007-07-03, 04:56

So Ayato finally became the "tuner". Does this mean that in the end we didn't see the Ayato we know but another one?

And what about Haruka Shitow? Isn't she dead?

Or is the end another timeline/dimension because Ayato "re-tuned" the world?

Sorry but i haveN't understand the last eps. at all^^

And my memories of this series is now a bit vanished.

But i came up with the idea of posting after i had heard some music of this series^^
:p

kujoe

2007-07-03, 15:23

That is Ayato. Basically, he lives the life he would've lived if Tokyo Jupiter didn't happen. Take note that he has a painting of RahXephon, which suggests that he still has memories of the old world. His two friends are no longer Mu; his true mother becomes his daughter, and he and the others (e.g., Haruka) are still the same people more or less.

This is why the notion of art and music plays a role in the story: "tuning" is part reset, part re-imagination and creation all in one.

I assume that the other characters still exist in some way. Perhaps, he really has a twin brother this time around, or maybe Maya gets her wish to be Ayato's mother after all. Who knows? But this is just pure speculation on my part.

ItachiGT

2007-07-03, 15:52

Rofl sry, but that is somehow absolutley nonsense.......

So that: "yeaheaaa we all died but Ayato as tuner revive everyone and make everything about the Mu disappear........"

Hm ok^^

What is about the time-difference? Ah forgot, Ayato is like god so he can do as he wish^^

Thanks for your help.

But this is somewhat a disappointing ending for me........everything what happened before, well has no value at all, because Ayato can "tune" as he wish, hmmm

Forbin

2007-07-03, 16:23

Watch the Movie, it's easier to understand.

ItachiGT

2007-07-03, 17:04

Perhaps i just don't like the ending.
Because this too much happy-ending^^.

I wished for something like that:

Everyone who died would still be dead.
Ayato becomes the Keeper of the time or sth. like that and tunes the world.
But he stays as a god.

And that what was shown in the end is a another timeline , another parallel-dimension to say it so.
ANd in that the Mu would never appear, since the new "god" erased them.
So what would happened if the Mu has never appeared in Ayato's life or in general!

kujoe

2007-07-03, 19:15

Forbin is right. Watch the movie.

The scenario you thought of is what more or less happens at the end of the movie.

The ending of the series is one big "happy end" indeed. The same goes for the movie, except with some minor (and major) differences. I think it was Oshii who said that RahXephon is essentially about one young guy trying to reunite himself with his girlfriend—which is actually true when you think about it.

hobbes_fan

2007-07-03, 19:35

Well I wasn't a fan of this at first. It was an NGE ripoff for 2/3rds of the series. The dolems sincerely lacked any inspiration. BUT, the last 1/3rd was a wonderful end sequence, the love story was quite lovely to watch develop.

It has one of my favourite episodes standalone - Asahina's moment in the sun was outstanding

Forbin

2007-07-04, 14:29

kujoe

2007-07-04, 15:16

That's because the movie has more of Haruka's story this time around. Not only do we see a different story, but we also see it from her point of view. If you've watched the series, there's no point in keeping the spoiler a secret anymore, so the shift in perspective makes the story more refreshing in that sense.

As for Ayato getting some, I found it strange that...

...they're being watched as they do the deed. There's a security camera installed over there, and for a while I thought something was going to come out of that in terms of plot.
It has one of my favourite episodes standalone - Asahina's moment in the sun was outstanding
Episode 19, I presume? Same here. I even still remember the episode number.

Hazard

2007-07-04, 15:58

All right this is how I saw the ending. As we saw in a previous episode when Ayato was battling his fellow teammate he was able to turn back time. I think thats what he basically did at the end but this time in a much grander scale back to when the Mu first attacked and jupiter incident accured but this time he made it so it never happend. So he and Haruka would have continued to go out get married and have a child which looks like a reincarnation of Quon. Its not shown what happens to the other characters but there probly stilll there living the normal lives they should have. As confusing as the series was the ending was actually quite simple, giving every one a second chance at life.

mcruz1014

2007-07-20, 23:11

Wow.... Just finished watching the anime series and I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed, no, loved, it. I also had a few things to get off my chest.

Many people have written Rah off as an Eva rip-off. While the show clearly takes a lot out of Eva's book (and makes no effort to hide it.....Elvy's cross, anyone?), such a condemnation is the furthest thing from the truth. NGE will forever be one of the most influential anime series to come along, and many more shows will draw inspiration and reference from it. I think that while both shows seem similar on the surface, namely their theological and psychological overtones and mecha/sci-fi plot, their purposes differ, and affect the outcome of the final product. Hideaki Anno created Eva with the agenda of revitalizing anime and making his own social commentary. It is because of this that Eva became a highly abstract and interpretable work. While Rah may be filled with the same themes and points of reflection, it is clear that the show's main purpose was to entertain. It could even be argued that all of the grand and epic themes simply sugar-coat a love story. While that is less ambitious one to say the least, there is nothing wrong with it at all. Rah's story, though complex and deep, can make a lot sense at the end of the day, because Rahxephon simply aims to tell a story, while on the other hand Anno used Eva to further his own personal agenda. Because of all that, I think that Rahxephon is a much more pleasing viewing experience than Evangelion ever will be (and I actually like Eva). Its characters for the most part lack the psychological complexities of Eva's protagonists, but seem more likable and relevant; It ends happily ever after while Eva ends.....well, you can fill in how it ended to you here. Of course, none of that stopped NGE from having a vast and infamously rabid fan base. However, I do believe that had Rah come out instead of Eva 12 years ago, it may have been what Eva is now.

I guess I'll end this essay...I mean post... with saying how much I loved this show. When the characters triumphed and struggled, I felt happy and sad for them, as opposed to the numbness I felt when watching some of the things Shinji and co. went through in NGE. While it may not be as original, thought provoking, or generally well liked as Eva, it had all the elements of a great story, which is what anime film and television is all about really.

Zifx

2007-07-21, 08:38

Wow.... Just finished watching the anime series and I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed, no, loved, it. I also had a few things to get off my chest.

I also agree that while Evangelion and Rahxephon have a number of things in common, they are each their own and both great series. I remember after watching Rahxephon I had a hard time deciding which I liked best, but then thought that they are really just different series that emphasize different things. To me Evangelion was more about the characters and human nature in general, whereas Rahxephon focused more on the story itself (but both had great stories and characters imo).

Mueti

2007-07-21, 09:52

RahXephon is a lot better than NGE.

'nough said.

Westlo

2007-07-21, 12:33

Evangelion is not that original itself, Anno retread a lot from his previous works in Gunbuster and Nadia for Evangelion as well as being influenced by many Tomino series, Space Runaway Ideon and Mobile Suit Gundam in particular.

Originality while nice, shouldn't be a big factor in how high/low you rate a series, also many things you might think are original have a very high chance of not being.

For instance Evangelion seems very original but than you watch Annos pasts works (not to mention Tomino) and it doesn't seem as original. There could also be something in another medium that touches the same subjects.

No ideas original, theres nothing new under the sun
Its never what you do, but how its done

mcruz1014

2007-07-23, 20:45

No ideas original, theres nothing new under the sun
Its never what you do, but how its done

How well put.... I couldn't agree more.

grey_moon

2007-07-24, 04:29

I loved RahXephon and hated Eva with a passion... I still dig it out to watch it every so often. I think it is a great love story packaged in sci fi, whilst Eva for me was a angst fest. I journeyed with Ayato as the storied unfolded and really felt for him during some of the sadder scenes.

The part that really makes me cry is when he kills Hiroko without realising it, just thinking about it makes me sniffle...

I loved everything about RX, the story, the chars and the art work. Oh the music kicks arse too.

PS The movie is worth watching too

LucidLucifer

2007-09-02, 22:45

I understood it and if you've seen Evangalion then I explain the ending of RahXephon as a watered down and more sane version of the Eva ending.

I enjoye dthis anime, it was very good. The animation was very smooth. And the VA's were very good too. I hope to read the manga and the novels someday.

Raktus

2007-09-17, 10:39

Id suggest only watching the movie once you completely understand the series, since they are completely divergant stories in some respect. Though, in some part they are happy endings all around I felt bad for seeing them. I mean, it was good, but it still just didn't feel right....

Raktus

2007-09-17, 11:28

I was actually suprised to learn that Hiroko Asahina's voice actor wasn't the same from Outlaw Star (Aisha Clan Clan sounds JUST like her).

Westlo

2007-09-19, 08:39

I understood it and if you've seen Evangalion then I explain the ending of RahXephon as a watered down and more sane version of the Eva ending.

Have you seen the South Park episode "Simpsons Did It"? RahXephon is South Park, Evangelion is the Simpsons and Ideon is the thing (can't for the life of me remember... Tron, Twilight Zone???) Chef said that the Simpsons ripped off.

The majority of stuff people think is original has more than likely been done before in a previous anime, a movie, a novel, a comic/manga etc.

People place way too much emphasis on originality.

LucidLucifer

2007-09-19, 16:01

i dont...i was just giving you an example of what ppl ask me what i thought of RahXephon...but i do agree with you that ppl place way too much emphasis on originality...

Raktus

2007-09-19, 21:55

Wasn't it one of the creators of Rah that said that all original thoughts have already been thought, and the only creativity left is in how to combine them...

LucidLucifer

2007-09-25, 19:40

i duno but it wouldnt surprise me

Berserker

2007-09-26, 02:39

I personally love RahXephon. I enjoyed it more than I did Evangelion. I just thought it was really well done.

Terrestrial Dream

2007-09-26, 18:24

I personally love RahXephon. I enjoyed it more than I did Evangelion. I just thought it was really well done. So do I, I really love the story and the character, unlike Evangelion. As a joke I like to call Rahxephon, Evangelion that actually made sense :heh:.

Echoes

2007-09-26, 20:17

I recently watched Rahxephon. It had attractive art and a deep storyline, and the design of the characters, especially Quon and Ayato, was lovely. There were quite a few similarities to Evangelion, as people had already informed me off before-hand, but I try to judge it on its own merits, since my adoration of Evangelion borderlines worship.

On the whole it was an enjoyable show, but it just didn't pull me into the storyline in the same way other animes of the genre has. The ending was so-so in my opinion, but I'm glad I watched the show. I have yet to watch the Rahxephon movie, I'd like to hear people's opinion of it, especially compared to the show itself. Is it recommendable?

kujoe

2007-09-28, 01:57

I have yet to watch the Rahxephon movie, I'd like to hear people's opinion of it, especially compared to the show itself. Is it recommendable?
The story of the movie is very different from the series. Not "Escaflowne" different, but close. It's more of a retelling through a mix of used and new scenes. Moreover, a lot of major facts have been either changed or tossed out of the story, and it unfolds from Haruka's perspective more than Ayato's.

However, because of that shift, the movie does contain interesting scenes not found in the series. Some of them fit in with the series, somewhat adding meat to its story (e.g., Haruka and Ayato at school, etc.), while others only make sense within the plot of the movie.

Having said that, I'd still recommend it. A rent perhaps... and then buy if you really want to.

qtipbrit

2008-07-13, 06:13

Since it's been asked, but I haven't quite found what I'm looking for...
How does the movie relate to the TV series?
Is it a continuation of the story, a precursor, a remake of some sort or some part, etc?

Thanks.

Navel

2008-07-13, 08:14

It tells the same story as the TV series, from start to finish. But some events are slightly changed in the movie, and if you know quantum physics you'll notice they use it to explain the end of the series.

Westlo

2008-07-13, 08:25

It's pretty much an alternate version or retelling of the tv series but it reuses a lot of (80% ?) scenes from the tv series to do so.

qtipbrit

2008-07-13, 18:37

Ah, I'll probably skip out on it unless I'm really interested by the end of the series, though.

@Navel: Quantum physics as in mechanics of subatomic particles?
Or more specifically: uncertainty principle, cats in boxes, etc?

Westlo

2008-07-14, 02:58

It does have a few fairly interesting scenes in it though so it's worth a watch. Though maybe it's better to wait a few months than right after you finish the series, unless you're craving for more of course.

Navel

2008-07-14, 03:37

@Navel: Quantum physics as in mechanics of subatomic particles?
Or more specifically: uncertainty principle, cats in boxes, etc?

Those issues belong to quantum physics as well, but in here it's more about the idea that
the infinite number of possible quantum states have to collapse to one state to give the macroscopic world we are seeing around us, and that collapse might happen when an observer "observes" the quantum states and somehow one is chosen over the others. I'm not up to date with the present day way of explaining this, and as far as I remember, physics didn't have an explanation on how this happens when I was studying it. Try to drag Quarkboy here if you see him around and he might say more. Kamina is shown as playing the role of the "observer" and he choses one from the multitude of possible states (they say he "tunes the world").

Also, in the anime, the world of human beings exists in superposition with the world of the mulians, and both worlds want to be the one that is chosen in the end. Kamina's choice is much nicer, isn't it? :)

Magin

2008-07-14, 20:56

RahXephon series: best series I've personally ever seen. Or at least the ending made it completely worth watching (it's the first time I've ever cried tears of happiness at the conclusion of a series)

the movie, on the other hand... minus maybe one or two scenes, the movie can go and burn in hell for nearly destroying such a great series

Navel

2008-07-15, 03:43

I don't see what exactly has been destroyed, as it was the same story as in the tv series.

Forbin

2008-07-15, 11:43

Not quite, in the movie the ending is different (but the same) , Ayato sleeps with Haruka, and Quon has a reduced role.

Magin

2008-07-15, 18:41

The ending of the movie was a bit on the sad side... which is why I don't like the movie that much, since the series had a beautiful ending. Simply put, Ayato sort of resets the world, but instead of how it should've been if Tokyo Jupiter never existed (which is what happened in the series), he moves time forward and implants the memories that should've been (and he himself is gone)

OtseisRagnarok

2008-09-05, 15:59

Without a doubt, RahXephon is the best Evangelion rip-off.
And the music is simply the best in all of anime.

Muyasuki

2008-09-05, 16:37

RahXephon is currently the only series that has ever made me actually feel for a minor character(episode 19 is the best stand alone episode I have ever scene in any series to date). The soundtrack was awesome, no other series has even come close to the quality of this soundtrack, and I personally loved the English dub.

For some reason, I actually ended up enjoying the series the more times that I watched it. I don't see how people can call it a rip off of Eva(even though I will admit that I did watch this before Eva). The series may have similarity but they both have their own unique charms.

OtseisRagnarok

2008-09-05, 16:45

For some reason, I actually ended up enjoying the series the more times that I watched it. I don't see how people can call it a rip off of Eva(even though I will admit that I did watch this before Eva). The series may have similarity but they both have their own unique charms.
I actually think I liked it more than evangelion, but don't tell my avitar....
The only real difference I noted overall, until the big plot revelation, was that While Evangelion was drawing heavily upon Christian/catholic symboism, RahXephon drew upon... something else....
And what does "Olen" mean, anyway?

Wesley84

2008-09-05, 17:01

I thought it was garbage, though I laughed when what's her face was killed indirectly by the other guy.

Muyasuki

2008-09-05, 17:07

I actually think I liked it more than evangelion, but don't tell my avitar....
The only real difference I noted overall, until the big plot revelation, was that While Evangelion was drawing heavily upon Christian/catholic symboism, RahXephon drew upon... something else....
And what does "Olen" mean, anyway?

I like both series a lot but RahXephon was definately the better but the difference wasn't too large for me. I'm pretty sure that Olen was another name for a 'tuner' but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Magin

2008-09-05, 20:10

The reason why RahXephon and Eva are even compared is due to the fact that the Golems and Angels are similar in some respects, along with Ayato being chosen to pilot the Xephon is like Shinji taking Unit 01 (I think that's the righ one), and the fact that both also draw upon religious references (Eva was Judaism, and RahXephon drew upon Mayan beliefs). But main storyline-wise, RahXephon is a love story (and amongst my favorites), while Eva is just a mindfuck

@Muyasuki
outta curiosity, what anime is your avy from?

kk2extreme

2008-09-05, 20:52

watch out, in 2012, the earth would be covered in egg shell, and we would be forced to re-live the previous time circle. :joke:

OtseisRagnarok

2008-09-06, 12:06

I like both series a lot but RahXephon was definately the better but the difference wasn't too large for me. I'm pretty sure that Olen was another name for a 'tuner' but I'm not 100% sure on that.
Oh... I was thinking of something in regards to the latin(correct me if I'm wrong) word Nelo, meaning either "black" or "fallen"(I forgot which). They're anagrams of each other, so I guess it's a natural assumption.

Muyasuki

2008-09-06, 23:48

@Muyasuki
outta curiosity, what anime is your avy from?
Hayate No Gotoku

Oh... I was thinking of something in regards to the latin(correct me if I'm wrong) word Nelo, meaning either "black" or "fallen"(I forgot which). They're anagrams of each other, so I guess it's a natural assumption.
As I said, I was just throwing out a guess on that. Yours makes more sense though.

OtseisRagnarok

2008-09-07, 13:37

As I said, I was just throwing out a guess on that. Yours makes more sense though.

It does?
Why not just refer to him as "Nelo" then?

kujoe

2008-09-07, 23:48

I'm not sure what the original etymology of the word is, but RahXephon is heavily influenced by ancient Mayan/Aztec culture. Perhaps the answer to your question lies there.

However, the term is actually "olin." For example, google gives me a "nahuatl olin" that is said to bring about the destruction of the world. Apparently, "olin" means "movement."

OtseisRagnarok

2008-09-08, 14:46

Shiroth

2008-09-14, 20:12

I think my question can be answered here.

As anyone here read the RahXephon novels? If so, i was just wondering how the English translation was, 'cause i've been reading up and it's not supposed to be very good.

davie

2008-11-25, 04:38

Oh gosh! I just finished RahXephon and I was extremely satisfied with the overall quality and plot! Was a great watch, Rahxephon is one of those anime that I wished was longer (maybe as long as Dragonball series). I'm a huge fan of Bones productions and Eureka 7 is next on my list but will it surpass RahXephon ? Ugh, lol.

C.A.

2008-11-25, 04:46

Yes Eureka 7 can do better than Rahxephon, do look forward to the great character development in there.

Shiroth

2008-11-25, 06:05

Rahxephon is one of those anime that I wished was longer (maybe as long as Dragonball series).
No thanks --- Rahxephon worked with 26 episodes, anymore and it just would have felt forced. Especially if it was as long as you wanted it to be.

Just go read the novel or watch the movie --- both retelling's of the story.

davie

2008-11-25, 09:28

No thanks --- Rahxephon worked with 26 episodes, anymore and it just would have felt forced. Especially if it was as long as you wanted it to be.

Just go read the novel or watch the movie --- both retelling's of the story.

Haha, I guess you're right. I just fell in love with the characters so I wish there were more episodes.

Slick_rick

2008-11-25, 10:47

Haha, I guess you're right. I just fell in love with the characters so I wish there were more episodes.

Only thing I wish for was a flashback episode or 2 of Ayato and Haruka in school. The scenes the movie gave weren't anywhere close to enough! Chibi-Haruka was so awesome!

OtseisRagnarok

2008-11-28, 13:11

Only thing I wish for was a flashback episode or 2 of Ayato and Haruka in school. The scenes the movie gave weren't anywhere close to enough! Chibi-Haruka was so awesome!
Actually, I thought those scenes in the movie were confusing...
I didn't understand most of it until I saw the series....

Shiroth

2008-11-28, 13:38

Actually, I thought those scenes in the movie were confusing...
I didn't understand most of it until I saw the series....
That's why you shouldn't watch the movie before the TV series.

OtseisRagnarok

2008-11-28, 13:40

That's why you shouldn't watch the movie before the TV series.
True enough...
I didn't even know the Series existed until after I saw the movie, though....
Personally, I still say the movie was better.

Lugia_Tsuyu

2008-12-22, 16:08

Shiroth

2008-12-22, 16:14

But it just that...I don't really like triangle love kind of story. (That's why I don't really watch Macross series) And I saw THREE girls, the long brown hair one, the short blue hair one, and the long pink hair one...are they kind of all involved with the main character?
They are, though not in the form on a live triangle per say. Though i can tell you the show doesn't involve the typical form of love triangle so you should be alright.

Give it a try anyway, because it's one hell of a show and not to be missed.

Forbin

2008-12-22, 17:29

It's basically about a boy dealing with his destiny. Not as deep as EVA, but pretty involved.

Lugia_Tsuyu

2008-12-22, 17:29

They are, though not in the form on a live triangle per say. Though i can tell you the show doesn't involve the typical form of love triangle so you should be alright.

Give it a try anyway, because it's one hell of a show and not to be missed.

OOO, Thanks for the answer! I'll go watch episode 1 now.

zalem

2008-12-22, 23:35

Yeah, don't worry. RahXephon is nothing like Macross (though I do like Macross). But there are no true love triangles with girls duking it out over a boy in this series. Don't miss out on it just cause of something like that.

Reminds me, I need to buy a dvd box set of RahXephon....

justinstrife

2008-12-23, 03:36

Hi guys!

I want to watch Rahxephon...but I don't really know what it is about. (Well, of course, in order to know, I have to watch it)

But it just that...I don't really like triangle love kind of story. (That's why I don't really watch Macross series) And I saw THREE girls, the long brown hair one, the short blue hair one, and the long pink hair one...are they kind of all involved with the main character?

Sorry for asking such a weird question...

Thanks

The LAST thing you have to worry about in RahXephon, is a love triangle debacle like in Macross Frontier. Believe me, things are settled much better IMO. Watch the movie afterwards for some added treats not seen in the series. :p

Shiroth

2008-12-23, 06:00

Reminds me, I need to buy a dvd box set of RahXephon....
You should get to that before the show seems near impossible to buy. :p

zalem

2008-12-23, 19:59

You should get to that before the show seems near impossible to buy. :p

Why would it be impossible to buy? But anyway, went out and got it today so it's ok. :)

Shiroth

2008-12-23, 20:06

Why would it be impossible to buy? But anyway, went out and got it today so it's ok. :)
Well we know how these things sooner or later start to stop going on sale. It's happening to quite a few boxsets i want these days.

I need to get a hold of the movie sometime soon.

SageGaiGar

2008-12-24, 12:59

I bought this series as it came out along with the movie. Never regreted it. I'm quite fond of the music in it.

Here's a youtube link, the source for one of the major themes.

Prince Igor Polovtsian Dances Part1-2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeHrGImLX5I

DragoZERO

2009-03-16, 20:22

SageGaiGar

2009-03-16, 20:41

Well it's more a re-telling of the series condensed into a movie. So they cut through a lot. Definitely suggest checking it. And the theme song is Godly.

Shiroth

2009-03-16, 20:49

If you enjoyed the series then the movie is definitely worth watching imo. It's a great piece.

I also recommend the novels. Plenty of insight into parts that were never touched upon in the series.

signorRossi

2009-03-17, 05:30

Well it's more a re-telling of the series condensed into a movie. So they cut through a lot. Definitely suggest checking it. And the theme song is Godly.

It is really a retelling and it wouldn't make sense to watch it alone since it left out too many things to be understandable alone. But it also explains some things you might not have understood in the series.

SageGaiGar, do you mean 'Katun no Dsadame' (Katuns' Fate)? It is in my top ten of favourite songs. :D

SageGaiGar

2009-03-17, 07:21

It is really a retelling and it wouldn't make sense to watch it alone since it left out too many things to be understandable alone. But it also explains some things you might not have understood in the series.

SageGaiGar, do you mean 'Katun no Dsadame' (Katuns' Fate)? It is in my top ten of favourite songs. :D

Yeah, but also "Garden of everything' duet between Steve Conte and Maaya Sakamoto.

Forbin

2009-03-23, 13:30

Slick_rick

2009-03-23, 16:01

Except you are wrong DragoZERO, that's not who you think that is. It's Rahxephon's spirit.

? Ixtli only took the form of the younger version of Haruka. The epilogue in the end was of the first meeting between Haruka and Ayato. It's a pretty important plot point that for the entire show Ayato was drawing pictures of Haruka, not of Reika/Ixtli.

Skyfall

2009-03-23, 16:13

? Ixtli only took the form of the younger version of Haruka. The epilogue in the end was of the first meeting between Haruka and Ayato. It's a pretty important plot point that for the entire show Ayato was drawing pictures of Haruka, not of Reika/Ixtli.

Now, it has been a good while since i watched the show, but i don't remember it ever being even remotely implied the two were the same person. Unless it was something added to the movie, which i have yet to see, but as far as the series go, i don't remember there being any direct relation between the two women.

Slick_rick

2009-03-23, 16:59

Now, it has been a good while since i watched the show, but i don't remember it ever being even remotely implied the two were the same person. Unless it was something added to the movie, which i have yet to see, but as far as the series go, i don't remember there being any direct relation between the two women.

It's in the epilogue of the last episode of the series. You see Ayato meeting Haruka who introduces herself as Haruka Mishima, which was her last name before changing it to Shitow. Some people might have missed out on it if they didn't keep watching till after the credits.

Edit- Another clue to this fact is when Ixtli joins Terra she calls herself Haruka instead of Reika.

DragoZERO

2009-03-23, 21:27

Except you are wrong DragoZERO, that's not who you think that is. It's Rahxephon's spirit.
Sorry pal, but you are wrong in this case.
It's in the epilogue of the last episode of the series. You see Ayato meeting Haruka who introduces herself as Haruka Mishima, which was her last name before changing it to Shitow. Some people might have missed out on it if they didn't keep watching till after the credits.

Edit- Another clue to this fact is when Ixtli joins Terra she calls herself Haruka instead of Reika.
Yeah. Reika's last name was 'Mishima' and we know that Haruka had her last name changed. We didn't find out her original name until that time when she first introduced herself to Ayato. So Ixtli took the image of Haruka and her name. Just changed the first name and the face. I would have to say it was changed because of the memory tampering done by his mother.

SageGaiGar

2009-03-23, 21:51

'She' took the form of a younger Haruka because that is what/who Ayato desired most. Just as the form of the Ixtli of Quon's took the form of Ayato.

Skyfall

2009-03-24, 01:51

It's in the epilogue of the last episode of the series. You see Ayato meeting Haruka who introduces herself as Haruka Mishima, which was her last name before changing it to Shitow. Some people might have missed out on it if they didn't keep watching till after the credits.

Edit- Another clue to this fact is when Ixtli joins Terra she calls herself Haruka instead of Reika.

Hm .... *scratches head*. My memory about this is so hazy i can't even seem to recall whether i watched the post-credit sequence or not :heh: Guess i should go back and rewatch the show at some point, it was a nicely twisted experience :)

Forbin

2009-04-02, 18:01

Sorry pal, but you are wrong in this case.

Yeah. Reika's last name was 'Mishima' and we know that Haruka had her last name changed. We didn't find out her original name until that time when she first introduced herself to Ayato. So Ixtli took the image of Haruka and her name. Just changed the first name and the face. I would have to say it was changed because of the memory tampering done by his mother.

Hehe
You still got it wrong

Ayato has a MEMORY of a girl in a Yellow Dress..that's Haruka.
Ayato MET a girl in a yellow dress. That's Ixtili.(sp)
At the end of the movie Ayato draws a picture of a girl in a yellow dress, that's his daughter. (Sorta - is it really HIS daughter?)

BTW in the TV series Haruka NEVER told Ayato her last name. She told someone else, jumped in the plane and died.
She told him in the Movie...I think right before she slept with him?
So I can see where you made the slight mistake. But what you said and the person that Ayato was running around with are 2 different people.

DragoZERO

2009-04-02, 20:20

'She' took the form of a younger Haruka because that is what/who Ayato desired most. Just as the form of the Ixtli of Quon's took the form of Ayato.
Good call. That would complete the explanation.
Hehe
You still got it wrong

Ayato has a MEMORY of a girl in a Yellow Dress..that's Haruka.
Ayato MET a girl in a yellow dress. That's Ixtili.(sp)
At the end of the movie Ayato draws a picture of a girl in a yellow dress, that's his daughter. (Sorta - is it really HIS daughter?)

BTW in the TV series Haruka NEVER told Ayato her last name. She told someone else, jumped in the plane and died.
She told him in the Movie...I think right before she slept with him?
So I can see where you made the slight mistake. But what you said and the person that Ayato was running around with are 2 different people.
Watch the end of the final episode again. We are shown the scene when Haruka and Ayato first meet and they introduce themselves to each other. It is then that Ayato learns Haruka's original name. And the girl in the painting is Haruka, not his daughter. :eyespin:

kujoe

2009-04-02, 21:15

At the end of the movie Ayato draws a picture of a girl in a yellow dress, that's his daughter. (Sorta - is it really HIS daughter?)
That's kind of confusing. Are you talking about the movie or the TV series? The epilogues of both are significantly different from each other as both are also quite different in terms of plot and backstory.

An older Ayato, now married to Haruka, is seen painting a picture based on the first time the two met. At the time, Haruka Mishima was wearing a yellow dress. Reika takes this same image as her own based on Ayato's long-forgotten memories of Haruka.

In the epilogue of the TV series, Ayato and Haruka are of the same age, married to each other and are growing old together. In this new world, their daughter is Quon.
The epilogue is totally different from the TV series as is its resolution. With regard to the specifics, some discussion has already been made somewhere in this thread.

By this time, Ayato (human) has already passed away, and we see Haruka with her granddaughter who happens to resemble Reika in the same yellow dress. Haruka later on sees Ayato (Tuner of Time) and goes on a trip with him.

golthin

2009-04-02, 21:46

That's kind of confusing. Are you talking about the movie or the TV series? The epilogues of both are significantly different from each other as both are also quite different in terms of plot and backstory.

An older Ayato, now married to Haruka, is seen painting a picture based on the first time the two met. At the time, Haruka Mishima was wearing a yellow dress. Reika takes this same image as her own based on Ayato's long-forgotten memories of Haruka.

In the epilogue of the TV series, Ayato and Haruka are of the same age, married to each other and are growing old together. In this new world, their daughter is Quon.
The epilogue is totally different from the TV series as is its resolution. With regard to the specifics, some discussion has already been made somewhere in this thread.

By this time, Ayato (human) has already passed away, and we see Haruka with her granddaughter who happens to resemble Reika in the same yellow dress. Haruka later on sees Ayato (Tuner of Time) and goes on a trip with him.

Agree with the above. I like both endings, i like the movie more because of the sex scene.

DragoZERO

2009-04-03, 08:23

I really gotta watch the movie this weekend. haha.

Forbin

2009-04-03, 11:49

Just watched this anime, it was decent.
Some parts were a little weird. I am glad we got a nice epilogue and found out that Haruka was the girl in the yellow dress, that was a nice touch.
Now.. is it worth watching the movie? AniDB says its a summary, so yeah.

BTW
1. The movie is almost completely different, key points are the same but the way to get there is different. You definitely find out that fact a lot sooner. I think we lose his brother in the movie. For example his sorta G/F dies exactly the same way in the movie. Quon is a lot less important and his mother more if I remember right.

2. My understanding of the TV show is that is his brother at the epilogue, not Ayato. Now I've got to watch it all over again.

3. If you are talking about his memory, that answer above is correct, but he was running around with a girl in a Yellow dress and it wasn't her.

Kikuchi

2009-04-03, 13:15

=2. My understanding of the TV show is that is his brother at the epilogue, not Ayato. Now I've got to watch it all over again.

Nay, he looks and talks like his brother, but what do you expect when they're twins ?

Haruka's husband in the TV series epilogue is definitely Ayato.

Magin

2009-04-03, 13:21

The epilogue is totally different from the TV series as is its resolution. With regard to the specifics, some discussion has already been made somewhere in this thread.

By this time, Ayato (human) has already passed away, and we see Haruka with her granddaughter who happens to resemble Reika in the same yellow dress. Haruka later on sees Ayato (Tuner of Time) and goes on a trip with him.

wait... I thought that in the movie, Ayato and the other Tuner (Ixtli? I forget) said that Ayato could no longer remain on Earth and had to take his place as a Guardian/Watcher, but that they were going to fast-forward time and give Haruka the memories she should've had with him? Also, are you sure that Haruka goes on a trip? Because I'm sure that Reika was saying something like "grandmother probably wandered off again", but if she does in fact go on a trip, then I think I might like the movie a little more (seeing as how they killed the other beautiful ending of the TV series.

@forbin
That's definitely Ayato. I believe Haruka even says "Ayato"

besides, the fact that him and the other guy are brothers is the reason that Haruka dated the other guy at one point, trying to replace him with Ayato... but all was worked out in the end

Dammit, now I'm wanting to go back through this series again

kujoe

2009-04-03, 16:08

wait... I thought that in the movie, Ayato and the other Tuner (Ixtli? I forget) said that Ayato could no longer remain on Earth and had to take his place as a Guardian/Watcher, but that they were going to fast-forward time and give Haruka the memories she should've had with him? Also, are you sure that Haruka goes on a trip? Because I'm sure that Reika was saying something like "grandmother probably wandered off again", but if she does in fact go on a trip, then I think I might like the movie a little more (seeing as how they killed the other beautiful ending of the TV series.
In the end of the movie, Ayato takes his place as the Observer of Time. (My mistake, it's not Tuner of Time.) Prior to this, he asks Haruka what is it she wishes for. The question revolves around the theme of memories and time, and faced with this question Haruka asks for a lifetime (memories) of the two of them having lived on together. Ayato, who's basically a god of sorts at this point, grants her wish.

The epilogue shows a Buddhist altar and a memory tablet dedicated to Ayato (the human in Haruka's new time) who has already passed away. Haruka is reading a book to her granddaughter Reika entitled, Through the Looking-Glass. Reika asks whether the main character's experience in the story is just a dream or reality. Haruka answers, that as long as the character remembers, it is reality to her. This goes in line with the resolution from earlier.

Before Haruka goes on a trip she finds Ayato, now the Observer of Time, appearing before her. She doesn't even seem surprised, and together the two embark on some journey. When Reika comes back, she finds that her grandmother has wandered off again, hinting that she has done this before.

It's important to note that Ayato at the end of movie practically ascends into some sort of godhood, hence his seemingly omnipresent portrayal at the end. This ending is in contrast to the Ayato at the end of the TV series, who resets and unites (or tunes) the human world and Mu world together.

Kizer

2009-04-04, 08:53

while it's not one of my favorite series, I defiantly liked it more then Evangelion. I just found the characters more bearable.

DragoZERO

2009-04-12, 12:11

Well, just watched the movie. I prefer the TV ending over the movie's.

Tiamat's Disciple

2009-04-12, 12:25

I prefer the novel over both TV or movie :D

Shiroth

2009-04-12, 19:40

I prefer the novel over both TV or movie :D
TV series for me, though i can say i'm highly enjoying the novel adaptation.

Tiamat's Disciple

2009-04-13, 01:37

Thing i'm liking about the novel is that it's more indepth, we getting more of what people think and feel. And for some character, Quon, i find that a blessing

kujoe

2009-04-13, 02:24

I heard that the novel is closer to the movie in terms of story. Sounds good enough, except a review I read criticizes how bad the localization was. Then again, this is just a review of the first novel. It probably also reads better in Japanese, but I'm not interested enough to go through that.

Personally, I prefer the series as well. The movie version is interesting due to how it presents Haruka's perspective, but I think the series just has more meat to its story.

Shiroth

2009-04-13, 05:48

Thing i'm liking about the novel is that it's more indepth, we getting more of what people think and feel. And for some character, Quon, i find that a blessing
Yeah. This is one of those stories where being inside the characters head works wonders for the story. I should get back to reading the novel sometime this week.

I heard that the novel is closer to the movie in terms of story.
Naah. It's the adaptation of the TV series.

Tiamat's Disciple

2009-04-18, 04:59

I heard that the novel is closer to the movie in terms of story. Sounds good enough, except a review I read criticizes how bad the localization was. Then again, this is just a review of the first novel. It probably also reads better in Japanese, but I'm not interested enough to go through that.

It wasn't a bad localisation that ruins the first volume, but a seriously bad editing and qcing. That said it's still an excellent read, but you will have to work on it, it's not a quick or light read.

Zwei

2009-10-07, 18:51

Slick_rick

2009-10-07, 19:49

Haruka obviously dated Itsuki because of his resemblance of Ayato.

I got a question I always wondered though...Did Haruka ever sleep with Isshiki? I mean...the time where he was blackmailing her and she would visit him at night?

He is a bit of a pervert after all.

I've actually heard this theory before but I have never really gotten than impression from watching the show. The one time we see him proposition her she completely ignores it. Not only that it would seem odd after seeing what happened between Sayako and Itsuki when she slept with Isshiki for "his sake" had to make her realize there is a line that you don't need to push. One of the big themes of Rahxephon is about being honest and how lies come back to haunt you so I don't see them letting her get away with sleeping with Isshiki and still having a happy ending with Ayato. That kind of betrayal of Ayato also doesn't really seem in Haruka's character and Ixtli had a fair amount of control over Isshiki actions at that point so having Haruka sleep with him seems a bit, if not completely, unnecessary.

Zwei

2009-10-07, 20:04

I've actually heard this theory before but I have never really gotten than impression from watching the show. The one time we see him proposition her she completely ignores it. Not only that it would seem odd after seeing what happened between Sayako and Itsuki when she slept with Isshiki for "his sake" had to make her realize there is a line that you don't need to push. One of the big themes of Rahxephon is about being honest and how lies come back to haunt you so I don't see them letting her get away with sleeping with Isshiki and still having a happy ending with Ayato. That kind of betrayal of Ayato also doesn't really seem in Haruka's character and Ixtli had a fair amount of control over Isshiki actions at that point so having Haruka sleep with him seems a bit, if not completely, unnecessary.

I know, but if I remember correctly (I watched this around 2 years ago), Ixtil gained control of Isshiki after he fired Haruka for making fun of him. He also used to tell Haruka to visit him at night, writing on a blank paper.

I can see Haruka sleeping with Isshiki actually for Ayato's sake...not sure :|

Of course, I'm hoping I'm wrong...

Slick_rick

2009-10-07, 20:28

I know, but if I remember correctly (I watched this around 2 years ago), Ixtil gained control of Isshiki after he fired Haruka for making fun of him. He also used to tell Haruka to visit him at night, writing on a blank paper.

I can see Haruka sleeping with Isshiki actually for Ayato's sake...not sure :|

Of course, I'm hoping I'm wrong...

I certain that Ixtil was in control of him before he fired her since they all met when she was posing as a different "Haruka" in Terra right after Ayato is brought back after the incident with Hiroko. Haruka is initially shocked to see her younger self till Ixtil works her mojo on them all.

The writing on paper incident is the one I was pointing out as the time she ignores his proposition. He gets writes the note, she ignores it while staring ahead, he gets mad and tells her to leave, and then his blond friend (forgot her name) makes fun of him for always trying to possess the things that Itsuki likes.

I can't really she her doing it for Ayato sake because that would put her on Sayako's level of betrayals and having good come out of it would really be pointless to show any sort of moral. Haruka wasn't a saint but she doesn't seem a fool either.

Zwei

2009-10-07, 21:02

I certain that Ixtil was in control of him before he fired her since they all met when she was posing as a different "Haruka" in Terra right after Ayato is brought back after the incident with Hiroko. Haruka is initially shocked to see her younger self till Ixtil works her mojo on them all.

The writing on paper incident is the one I was pointing out as the time she ignores his proposition. He gets writes the note, she ignores it while staring ahead, he gets mad and tells her to leave, and then his blond friend (forgot her name) makes fun of him for always trying to possess the things that Itsuki likes.

I can't really she her doing it for Ayato sake because that would put her on Sayako's level of betrayals and having good come out of it would really be pointless to show any sort of moral. Haruka wasn't a saint but she doesn't seem a fool either.

Yeah, now that I'm rewatching the episode, Haruka started working for Isshiki right after Ayato came back from Tokyo, though I don't know what happened before that, since it never really is shown when she started working for him exactly. Also, by the time he announces this, Ixtil is also re-introduced.

I remember reading about this theory somewhere in a particular review long ago, but haven't got to finish the series by that time, that's how I noticed.

The reason the theory about Haruka sleeping with Isshiki came to my mind then was when Itsuki told Ayato "Haruka has good reasons for being with Isshiki" and also when her friend (forgot her name), told her "You're the right hand man of the white snake guy now?...so you can do anything to protect the one you love." and Haruka looked down seemingly in pain. I also found it strange when Isshiki told Haruka she can be the governor of Tokyo when he destroys the barrier.

Then, there was this particular conversation that striked me between Haruka and Ixtil...

Haruka:

"What Makoto Isshiki said is correct. All human relationships are built upon interests."

Ixtil:

"But relationships built on interests have their own aesthetics."

Haruka:

"His happiness is my profit."

Ixtil:

"He has not realized that yet. He might not realize that forever, then Haruka will become alone forever."

Maybe that was a way for Ixtil to open her mind for what she's doing?

Slick_rick

2009-10-07, 21:40

None of that really implies them sleeping together though. She did sacrifice a lot for Ayato sake. Most notably her friendships with the other crewmembers. The only two people who seemed to have supported Isshiki were Haruka and Souichi when he became commander. He needed their support to keep people in line so he'd certainly be thankful for them later on that doesn't mean he slept with either though. Kim and Souichi's relationship was likewise on rocky ground at the time because of his support of Isshiki.

The conversation with Ixtli was all about her relationship with Ayato. Their relationship is built on interests. Ayato's happiness is her profit. Ayato might not realize it and cause her to be alone forever. The last line makes it clear who the "him and he" is referring to and its definitely not Isshiki. I don't see either thinking that her sleeping with Isshiki would bring Ayato happiness especially when it's so easy to avoid going to such lengths while still accomplishing her goal. Why would he fire one of the only people he thought supported him?