Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha The MOVIE 1st [Archive] - Page 10

Archon_Wing

2011-08-07, 21:45

I suppose I never really had much interest in Precia in the first place, even though she was technically the Big Bad. Sure, she fulfilled her role as a loon who abuses her daughter just because she can, but the brunt of the conflict comes from Nanoha and Fate. Precia herself had about 0 depth anyways. That's not really a problem; you were supposed to hate her anyways.

The biggest reason why I feel this way, is that her exit doesn't require her to be defeated in either story. Where does the series climax? Nanoha vs Fate is where everything is at stake. When Precia died in the first season, I was like good riddance! There was really no urge to redeem her or whatever. [Also, note that Nanoha puts all that effort into saving Fate, but she doesn't give a shit that Precia's dead :heh:]

Movie Precia... well, I guess yea, her actions are still not to be condoned and that's pretty much it. She's still a raving loon, and sure we see that she wasn't always like that. But that only makes sense; she's not crazy til she loses her daughter. But that's what the purpose of the antagonist is; you're not really supposed to feel bad for them-- though context is better regardless, just because we like to fill out our characters' background.

Though Alisa's role with Nanoha being reduced does reduce Nanoha's character motivation quite a bit. Everyone else, well... I never really missed them anyways, even Yuuno means nothing to me, so whatever. :heh:

Demi.

2011-08-07, 22:14

I have no place for sympathy for Precia in my heart. I'm all for going to extremes to accomplish something, but most of Precias actions played no role in reviving Alicia -- it was all out of hate. Hate for someone she created. Someone that had just as much feelings as the person she was trying to revive. And not only that, she made impossible expectations for her. Nothing she did or could do was ever right, and when Precia knew she was screwed...What did she do? She used her final moments to traumatize Fate even more.

I'd have plenty of sympathy for a mother who lost her child, but is she reacts by unloading a gun in the hospital that "let her die"...I certainly wouldn't be very sympathetic towards her anymore. My sympathy would instead go out to the people who were shot down for no reason. Or perhaps to her child who died. Definitely not her.

Proto

2011-08-07, 22:25

There's no shame in feeling sympathy for a rabid dog that you have to put down. This is the same case. What you feel bad for are the possibilities that will never be able to become true, for the human and the genius that was lost. Because at the very end in the second before her death, karma was evil enough to let her realize her folly instead of letting her die drowned in her insanity.

There lies the tragedy.

Demi.

2011-08-07, 22:43

Well, rabid dogs are put down for far less than what it would take to put down a person. It was probably abused half its life, and finally retaliated one day, wounding its owner -- not even killing him. So yeah, I'd feel sympathetic towards it. And they're more geared towards instinct, anyways.

Sure, I think of what happened as a tragedy, I just lack the sympathy for Precia. I'm sure some serial killers have some kind of tragic past, but even if I hear it -- the terrible things they've done will surely outweigh what sympathy I would have had for them otherwise. My point is, just because bad things have happened to you, if you react by doing even worse things to someone else..."that poor thing" is going to be the last thing on my mind.

Rising Dragon

2011-08-07, 22:46

Proto

2011-08-07, 22:50

Maybe it's just that from my POV there's a difference between cold killers and mentally deranged killers. Both are a menace to society. Both should be dealt in appropriate ways as you correctly describe.

However while as a society we should proactively search for an efficiency optimimum and weed out the deficient members and people that are holding us back, as individuals I think that trying to understand and empathize with the person behind the mask (knife) is nothing but our duty as fellow humans.

Because it is this empathy which will allow us to understand what was the problem and avoid doing it again. And by understanding it we are also understanding a little more about ourselves.

... rabid dogs are rabid because they have rabies. I think you're thinking of the word "feral" instead, and even that's not the most correct word, I think.

That's why I hate analogies. They never get across to people :p

Archon_Wing

2011-08-07, 22:53

Demi.

2011-08-07, 22:54

... rabid dogs are rabid because they have rabies. I think you're thinking of the word "feral" instead, and even that's not the most correct word, I think.

Whoops, my bad. Well it better helps my case. As dogs with rabies are infected with a disease. And never originally did anything wrong. No reason not to feel sympathy for them. Well, unless you're not a dog lover.:heh:

Proto

2011-08-07, 22:54

But the problem I see is that despite her judgement being clouded, there was some pretty deliberate abuse on Precia's part. She basically went out of her way to traumatize Fate psychologically, by using fear and demeaning words. It makes one think, even if one was crazy, that seems to be a conscious effort to do something you know clearly is wrong.

Did Precia looked like the type that would do this before the lab explosion?

Whoops, my bad. Well it better helps my case. As dogs with rabies are infected with a disease. And never originally did anything wrong. No reason not to feel sympathy for them.

How do you classify a mentally deranged person if not ill? (leaving the matter to determine whether a person is mentally deranged or does something in cold blood aside. Let's take mental derangement as a premise or we'll never get anywhere).

Demi.

2011-08-07, 23:04

Did Precia looked like the type that would do this before the lab explosion?

She didn't look this way directly after the explosion, either. There were times where Precia seemed mentally unstable, but there were other times where she seemed incredibly cold and ruthless. Personally, I think it was more her hate towards Fate for not being identical to Alicia, then it was Precia going batshit insane. If she ever had a transition from sane, to mentally insane, then it all transitioned within a single scene. It was basically "Oh, Fate and Alicia have a different dominant hand...Fate's just a fake!" And she just got more violent from there. The moment she found any semblance of difference between the two; that was what triggered her.

tl;dr aside from that one crazy face she made once while coming to her grim realization, Precia seemed sane to me. And I think her final moments while she was falling proved that. As I doubt she would snap out of insanity just like that.

Reckoner

2011-08-07, 23:05

You don't get it. Fate is Precia's slave. Since when do we treat slaves like human beings? We crack our whips until they do what they're told!

Proto

2011-08-07, 23:10

@Demi:

Totally agreed. Then doesn't understanding and researching into the process of how a person devolves into mentally insanity is a worthy endeavor? If only to minimize the likelihood of similar situations from happening.

If you agree with me, then I establish that empathizing a person is one of the best ways of understanding a person on an emotional level.

Furthermore, I establish that the research of the process of evolution of mental instability should take into account both psychiatric and psychological data.

I establish that empathizing and understanding people on an emotional level is one possible of sample of many of psychological data.

If you agree with me of all counts then from the first, second, third and fourth statements we can deduce that empathizing with a mentally deranged person is a task worth taking.

edit for the edit:

tl;dr aside from that one crazy face she made once while coming to her grim realization, Precia seemed sane to me. And I think her final moments while she was falling proved that. As I doubt she would snap out of insanity just like that.

There are documented medical cases of people having lucid lapses of sanity within an extended period of insanity. (heck, this is the whole reason psychiatric drugs work. People can come back :D)
My personal take on the matter is as follows: Insanity is normally attributed to damages to the sections of our brains responsible for social restraints If the damage is such that the annomality is on the connections to such areas rather than on the areas themselves then it is not out of the question that there could be some kind of temporary bridging with those isolated areas. Of course this is only spoken from my knowledge on molecular biology. My knowledge on neurobiology is only at the interested layman level.

That aside, while the sanity issue is almost up to speculation (and as such for the most part is futile discussion), at least from a medical perspective violent mood swings and behavioral changes are normally attributed to advanced levels of dementia or hysteria, or a similar condition.

Demi.

2011-08-07, 23:20

Except...I don't think she was mentally deranged. ;-;
It really just boils down to the fact that Precia did too many terrible things, so I can't sympathize with her, regardless of her mental state.

I understand, opinions vary, etc...

Proto

2011-08-07, 23:24

Agreed to disagree.

Keroko

2011-08-08, 08:37

Except...I don't think she was mentally deranged. ;-;

Please, anyone who does the kind of things Precia did is mentally deranged. You don't have to be a cackling psychopath to be insane.

Demi.

2011-08-08, 09:49

If she was, then they did a piss poor job of showing it. She seemed very much in control of her actions. She may have had a pipe dream, but I don't think it was insanity that made her believe in it.

Triple_R

2011-08-08, 10:25

I don't think that she was mentally deranged, either.

Precia was simply not a very nice person, and with a real streak of viciousness to her.

There's nothing that Precia did that was clearly counterproductive to her primary goal, and while her primary goal could perhaps be called a "pipe dream", simply having that goal alone doesn't maker her insane.

Proto

2011-08-08, 10:28

Triple_R

2011-08-08, 10:30

I disagree, but I deem this to be mostly a fruitless discussion since we don't have further information from the series except for a few life snippets here and there, such that most stuff we say here will be extrapolations and conjectures.

What, in particular, makes you think that she's mentally deranged? As opposed to simply harsh, mean, and not very nice?

It's not insane to want your daughter's life back. And, in an universe where magic and very advanced science is known (by you) to exist, it doesn't strike me as truly insane to try to achieve that.

Proto

2011-08-08, 10:34

Triple_R

2011-08-08, 10:45

My main point of concern would be her violent personality change. You can clearly trace a before and an after. The profile would match that of a depressive, delusional and psychotic person, which is the explanation that makes the more sense to me, but at the same time it could just be lots of stress which seems to be where you are coming from, and I can't certainly discard that given the available information.

Losing a daughter will have an effect on somebody. Even if it doesn't drive you into mental derangement, it can still bring out the worst in a person.

The thing is that Precia doesn't do anything that's truly deranged, in my mind. I mean, what she did to Fate was wrong, but a sane yet mean person is still capable of doing such things.

Also, Precia strikes me as too calculating in her choices and decisions to be truly insane, in my view. There' s a consistent method to her seeming madness.

I don't doubt that Precia was depressed and perhaps slightly delusional, but she never struck me as truly over the deep end.

MeoTwister5

2011-08-08, 10:46

To say that Precia was, and to some extent always has been, the personality she possesses in the series/movie probably is a disservice to her character and to the fact that she was mentally and psychologically "broken". There is medically and psychologically valid event that pushed her over the edge, so to speak, which was the event that took her daughter's life and was compounded by the fact that the event was also her fault. Perhaps she possessed some of that quality, yes, but I find it crystal clear that she would have never ever become who she was if not for having a hand in the death of her daughter in an experiment gone wrong.

If she was indeed insane, then the event broke her from reality. If she was simply an extremist, then the event drove her to such extremes. If my experience with psychology and actual psychiatric patients have taught me anything, it's that the line between sanity and insanity isn't as crystal clear as people think.

Proto

2011-08-08, 10:49

Also, Precia strikes me as too calculating in her choices and decisions to be truly insane, in my view. There' s a consistent method to her seeming madness.

As Edgar Allan Poe wistfully implied in his work The method of Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether, mad doesn't mean dumb. :p

But well, your conjecture is as valid as mine. I will just be repeating myself here if I were to reply. ( I dont have any new arguments. Except if I cheat and apply Occam's razor. (the minimal explanation consist of only taking into account the elements presented in the movie. Additional character traits that weren't shown don't conform to this principle.) Which kind of sucks, because Occam's razor and literary works never really mix well.)

Keroko

2011-08-08, 10:49

If she was, then they did a piss poor job of showing it. She seemed very much in control of her actions. She may have had a pipe dream, but I don't think it was insanity that made her believe in it.

Like I said, you don't have to be a cackling maniac to be insane. People perfectly in control of their actions can still be insane.

Triple_R

2011-08-08, 11:15

To say that Precia was, and to some extent always has been, the personality she possesses in the series/movie probably is a disservice to her character and to the fact that she was mentally and psychologically "broken".

Why? Because there's a couple short scenes that show her in a more positive light prior to her daughter's death?

Even the worst of people can come off as nice every now and then.

I strongly disagree with the idea that Precia can't be held accountable for her actions due to, in effect, an insanity plea. She did horrible things, often premeditated, and within a consistent pattern of behavior that is not without a readily understandable modus operandi for even the most sane of us.

Fact of the matter is that while losing a young child will usually effect people harshly, the vast majority who suffer that don't turn out like Precia did.

In other words, I have a much easier time believing that Precia losing her daughter simply brought out the worst in her - elements of her personality that she's always had - then to believe that this (and basically this alone) caused her to go insane.

Perhaps she possessed some of that quality, yes, but I find it crystal clear that she would have never ever become who she was if not for having a hand in the death of her daughter in an experiment gone wrong.

No doubt. But that doesn't excuse her for how she handled that.

As Edgar Allan Poe wistfully implied in his work The method of Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether, mad doesn't mean dumb. :p

I'm not talking about intelligence. An intelligent person can indeed be mad.

However, a person with a sound grasp of logic, which Precia seemed to have in my view, is less likely to be mad.

But well, your conjecture is as valid as mine. I will just be repeating myself here if I were to reply. ( I dont have any new arguments. Except if I cheat and apply Occam's razor. (the minimal explanation consist of only taking into account the elements presented in the movie. Additional character traits that weren't shown don't conform to this principle.) Which kind of sucks, because Occam's razor and literary works never really mix well.)

Occam's Razor doesn't apply here at all. My explanation is no less 'minimalist' than yours is. My explanation no more involves taking into account elements not present in the movie than what yours does.

Both of us are interpreting what is shown on screen: no more, no less. My interpretation fits the facts, and involves no greater number of character traits, than what yours does. Mine involves Precia having a mean streak to her character, but not outright insanity. Yours involves insanity, but no mean streak. So both of us are taking a 'minimalist' approach.

So Occam's Razor is not even a viable "cheat" for you.

Like I said, you don't have to be a cackling maniac to be insane. People perfectly in control of their actions can still be insane.

What does "insane" even mean then?

Proto

2011-08-08, 11:23

Occam's Razor doesn't apply here at all. My explanation is no less 'minimalist' than yours is. My explanation no more involves taking into account elements not present in the movie than what yours does.

Both of us are interpreting what is shown on screen: no more, no less. My interpretation fits the facts, and involves no greater citing of additional character traits, than what yours does.

So Occam's Razor is not even a viable "cheat" for you.

My attempt to jape totally missed the mark (it wouldn't even matter if Occam's razor actually completely fitted my explanation. The main point was that the truth will be whatever the author wants, goddamn logic. ). The jape was mainly in the ridiculousness of the argument. But yeah, I guess the fault is mine given that I was japing in an otherwise serious argument. Mea culpa.

In any case this is why I think this discussion is pointless. Discussing the value of one feeling sympathy for a mentally deranged person sounded like a worthy discussion. Discussing whether a fictional character is mentally deranged or not sounds more like a Byzantine argument to me, to be truthful.

So I'll balk here.

Just a clarification

I strongly disagree with the idea that Precia's can't be held accountable for her actions due to, in effect, an insanity plea. She did horrible things, often premeditated, and within a consistent pattern of behavior that is not without a readily understandable modus operandi for even the most sane of us.

No one said otherwise. We will kill her with fire regardless of whether she's insane or not. The man argument was in whether she was deserving of sympathy or not. So whether you should shed a tear for her while she is being slowly roasted and cooked.

Triple_R

2011-08-08, 11:27

My attempt to jape totally missed the mark (it wouldn't even matter if Occam's razor actually completely fitted my explanation. The main point was that the truth will be whatever the author wants, goddamn logic. ). But yeah, I guess the fault is mine given that I was japing in an otherwise serious argument. Mea culpa.

In any case this is why I think this discussion is pointless. Discussing the value of one feeling sympathy for a mentally deranged person sounded like a worthy discussion. Discussing whether a fictional character is mentally deranged or not sounds more like a Byzantine argument to me, to be truthful.

So I'll balk here.

If I sincerely thought that Precia was mentally deranged, I'd feel much sympathy for her, so I agree with you there.

Even as is, I feel a little bit of sympathy for her. She did lose her daughter, after all.

However, nothing excuses how she treated Fate, in my view.

Proto

2011-08-08, 11:29

In that case I think we agree. :)

vic-vic

2011-08-08, 11:35

I agree that Precia treatment of fate was not nice. but try to understand her - she lost her only daughter.

Proto

2011-08-08, 11:37

That reminds me of that joke where a lawyer is trying to defend his client who killed his parents. He argued that we should be lenient on him because he's an orphan. Think of the kids.

Demi.

2011-08-08, 11:38

I agree that Precia treatment of fate was not nice. but try to understand her - she lost her only daughter.

What is there to understand? Nothing would ever make it right. "Oh, I just lost my daughter, now someone unrelated to the incident must suffer!"

Proto

2011-08-08, 11:41

The argument is so ridiculous that I could only assume it was tongue in cheek. o_o (So i appropriately replied in kind).

vic-vic

2011-08-08, 11:41

It`s not like she created fate just in order to make her suffer.

MeoTwister5

2011-08-08, 11:44

Mitigating circumstances does not equate to absolution of fault. It just calls into question the possession of mental faculties when the act was carried out.

Sheba

2011-08-08, 11:44

Souther (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fist_of_the_north_star/v11/c005/12.html)killed his master and adoptive father without knowing it, and the fans still have not forgiven him for: enslaving children, poisoning food he knew the Resistance would steal, getting Shuh killed after having forced Shuh to choose between killing Souther at the price of the lives of hostages, and carrying the top of a pyramid to the top while being mortally wounded, knowing that should he fail the hostages will be killed.

Demi.

2011-08-08, 11:45

It`s not like she created fate just in order to make her suffer.

You're confusing me with the non-capped Fate.

Anyways, it doesn't matter why she originally created her. In the end, all she did was make her suffer.

Keroko

2011-08-08, 12:00

What does "insane" even mean then?

People behaving in ways contrast to the accepted social norms (often the ones they were raised with), and believing themselves to be fully justified doing so.

itanshi1

2011-08-08, 12:12

sane and insane, rational and irrational, acceptable and unacceptable

best know the distinctions :/

Archon_Wing

2011-08-08, 15:42

Basically, you can still have mental problems that affect you and still be responsible for your actions if you are aware of your actions are right or wrong, if you are not impaired to that point.

Precia knew what she was doing. This is the workings of a premeditated villain rather than that of a rabid animal.

If anything the movie makes her look worse, because it becomes clear that she wasn't just nuts-- she just didn't give a shit anymore about right or wrong. That's even worse.

If you don't give a shit about inflicting harm on other people, you're a ... fine, I won't use the word evil. You're an asshole, and that's enough to be booed in a show. ;)

I cannot and will not empathize with someone that lacks that kind of empathy and morals. They're no longer human (If anyone brings up that they aren't from Earth, I'll slap them). I can feel that it's tragic for this thing to happen, but I'd be feeling sorry for a lot of people who did many terrible things (I'm sure the majority of people that did terrible things have some kind of reason for it and I understand it could be avoided if things were different. ) and I simply don't have time for that.

For example, a serial killer that had a traumatic childhood and was a victim of violence would be understandable. But it doesn't change the fact that what they did was very wrong and that they are a criminal.

Precia's actions which endanger countless numbers of people, simply cannot be excused because I believe with her intelligence she'd know better that those actions would do such.

itanshi1

2011-08-08, 15:51

mad scientist :{)

Archon_Wing

2011-08-08, 15:52

mad scientist :{)

lol I should have just said that. :heh:

Dr. Casey

2011-08-21, 01:14

I watched this movie for the first time last night

it rules

delorean2200

2011-09-01, 08:41

Started my Nanoha marathon with this movie, first something to add to the Precia disscussion: Kind of sad that she only understood Fate's importance and role after falling to her doom and personally i think after Alicia dying she went insane, the ones that should burn in the deeps of hell are those corporate who.. who accelerated the reactor project despite all the warnings coming from Precia. So i do sympathize a bit of her.

Now for my thoughts on the movie, well one word, beautiful, i freaking loved it, one of the best series to movie adaptation, it managed to include all the major points of the series and include many new elements (mainly centering around Fate's life & Precia's past etc), without the whole thing feeling rushed or things feeling skipped over etc, the only complaint i have is that the voices of the devices didn't compared to the ones in the series they aren't nearly as good, the rest was absolutely beautiful though, a great story, subtle changes in nanoha's battle design where great, artwork quality simply beautiful, great fighting and action scenes, drama just enough to mellow you down a bit but not to the point of ruining it. I really can't wait for the 2nd Movie though that will prove more difficult, S2 had a lot of great moments hope they can pull it of and adapt it just as good.

Anyway back to my marathon going to rewatch the series now.

Demi.

2011-09-01, 15:26

Glad you liked it. ^^

Sunder the Gold

2011-09-04, 21:28

...And on another topic, Fate has Alicia's memories, right? So that she can actually remember Precia being not-crazy and all that, and she just has her memories of being Fate stacked on top of Alicia's?
Logical problem: Precia wanted Fate to be the new Alicia. But despite having nothing but Alicia's memories, she thought her name was Fate.

This suggests that Precia tampered with her memories, but WHEN did she do that? If she had done it before Fate was born, that would have been self-defeating.

So, Fate was awake and walking around and demonstrating just how much she WASN'T Alicia for a while. Did Precia stick her BACK in the tube to edit those memories?

If she went that far, why leave Fate with ANY of Alicia's memories at all?

It doesn't make sense.

So how sad is it that Nanoha still had to teach her the meaning of friendship--meaning that the concept of "friends" didn't exist in Alicia's memory either? Makes me wonder if maybe Precia didn't go from "nice and sweet" to "crazy as a loon" after Alicia's death, but that just maybe:

(a) She was actually obsessive and possessive over her real daughter while Alicia was alive, and that's why she went totally bonkers when Alicia died, or else
(b) Precia was always so busy with her work that she dragged Alicia with her off to the far end of the dimensional sea to private research facilities and so on where Alicia never had a chance to socialize normally because there wasn't anyone (and certainly no one her age) to socialize with, and that Precia was actually feeling somewhat guilty over these choices prior to Alicia's death, leading to her going ka-snap even harder since it was these bad parenting choices she was already guilty over that led to her child's death.
I'd really already sort of assumed this, myself.

Of course, it was only when I started thinking about fanfics involving the gang on the Arthra between the first two series that I realized:

Until Chrono and Yuuno, Fate has probably never interacted with another male human being. And maybe Alicia hadn't either.

That might not be strictly true, as Precia did use Fate as an errand-girl and thief even before the Jewel Seeds showed up, which meant venturing into the outside world with its male population.

It's still not as much personal interaction as she's suddenly experiencing on the Arthra.

Demi.

2011-09-04, 21:59

While it's somewhat a plot whole, between Precia's original desire to make Fate an Alicia clone, and how Fate was not named after Alicia...Fate got her name from the name of the project used to make super soldier clones - Project F.

Or that's how it was, if I remember.

delorean2200

2011-09-05, 02:49

Actually there's no plot whole regarding that, you just have to watch the movie close, Precia made "Fate" as a clone out of Alicia, gave her Alicia's memories, if you look closely many times when Fate remembers tender moments with her mother Precia never calls her "Fate" but Alicia, thing which was a mystery for her to and show that her memory wasn't rewritten, so anyway like i said Precia made "Fate" as a clone out of Alicia implanted her memories into Fate but short after she made "Fate" she noticed that even if she went through all that trouble, Fate was different, first right after she made her and brought her to her room she noticed Fate was right handed (Alicia was left handed), then she noticed several other traits which where different from those of Alicia, like personality, high magic power etc., so Precia deemed Fate as a failure and she called her Fate afterwards, making Linith as a familiar to train her in the art of magic, so she can't use her to gather lost logia.

Demi.

2011-09-05, 03:29

But the thing is, if Precia ever called Fate, "Alicia" then Fate would be mighty confused by it. Fate remembers being called Alicia in her memories (which were technically Alicia's memories)... But she is still known as Fate in the series. And Precia was never shown calling Fate, "Alicia", in the flashbacks.

delorean2200

2011-09-05, 07:13

Actually Fate is confused by it, and Precia did call Fate "Alicia" at first, right after she made her, till she noticed that Fate was quite different from Alicia, if you want i can even tell you the scene and approximate time frame in the movie.

Kaijo

2011-09-05, 08:39

It's a bit of a hole, because Precia did treat Fate like Alicia, and did call Fate "Alicia" several times. And from Fate's perspective, she just went to sleep and then woke up, so her memory should be that she was always called Alicia. Why she didn't question it earlier, as to why her mother started calling her something different, we'll never know.

I'll give the movie some minor props, because it addresses things slightly better. In the series, Fate has the sudden memory when she's fighting Nanoha, suddenly wondering why she has a memory of Precia calling her Alicia. As if that's the first time it's come up. In the movie, it's more like she has the memory(several of them), but it's indicated it's come up before, but Fate has just ignore them as unimportant.

It would make more logical sense if she had a memory of Precia saying Alicia's new name is Fate, and that's the beginning of the time Precia was cold to her. So part of Fate's struggle would be to have her mother call her Alicia again, because her memories tell her that her mother was kind to her when she had that name. It might not work so well as a thematic plot, but it would make more sense. The story could still keep that fact secret until her big fight with Nanoha.

Sunder the Gold

2011-09-05, 12:20

So apparently the "Commentary" track that comes with the DVD/BD is actually an in-character commentary with Nanoha/Fate/Vivio & the forwards doing rotating commentary on what's going on in the movie.

There's a couple interesting things in there. Precia is confirmed to know no combat magic, and to have been using some sort of body enhancement magic. A mage's magic color is a reflection of their personality; Nanoha & Vivio's pink shows their straightforwardness and some other stuff.
I don't recall seeing this with the Sound Stage translations. Is it not yet translated?

When Nanoha told the others Yuuno was her childhood friend & magic teacher, they were like "wait what, you weren't taught magic by some super strong mage?" :heh:
Assuming that they ever actually thought about the fact that Nanoha was once a rookie like themselves, I can see how they might have assumed Nanoha's training experience was like their's.

Namely, that a younger Nanoha was being ground into the dirt by someone as strong as she is today.

The reality surely would be disappointing, but I think Yuuno would still surprise them in a practice match. I'd love to see that.

But then, I'm seeing if I can't WRITE about that.

Sunder the Gold

2011-09-05, 12:27

Yea, like I said earlier this scene wasn't nearly as funny as the anime which Nanoha's like wutttttttttttt. :heh: Then she lives with it easily, even though she thinks Yuuno might have been a pervert earlier. :p
Huh?

Are you saying Movie Nanoha thinks Yuuno was a pervert? Because that never comes up in the original series, sound stages or manga.

Hell, she INVITES him to join a girls-only hot springs vacation... when they're teenagers. He has to be the one to tell her that wouldn't be appropriate.

delorean2200

2011-09-05, 12:42

^Nope there's no hint in the movie of Nanoha thinking that Yunno was a pervert or something, the only difference is that she isn't as surprised as in the anime.

Edit: Also after rewatching A's and StrikerS i have a even more doubts about the movie 2nd and third, with A's they might just get it right at the limit (though just like the scene where Fate decides to start a new even if her mother rejected her combined with the song "take a shot" was better in the series i doubt that the scene where the Tome of the Sky Crew and Nanoha/TSA crew join forces and defeat the defense program with the song "brave phoenix"in the bg will be made just as well in the movie as in the anime), StrikerS will be even more difficult cause of the large cast and cause of the many events that one had....

Sunder the Gold

2011-09-05, 12:52

^ Thanks.

random fact gained
nanoha is left handed
fate is right handed
Wonder why they went through the trouble of making that obvious.

So when they stand face-to-face, and they reach out towards each other...

They'll each be using the wrong hand. And then one of them will quickly have to switch to her off-hand.

I wonder if Yuuno is ambidextrous. It wouldn't surprise me.

delorean2200

2011-09-05, 13:00

In Fate's case like i mentioned above is more important, it was another sign that even though she had Alicia's memories and made based on clone tech she still wasn't the same cause Alicia was left handed and like you say Fate is right handed.

PS: offtopic random thought, i should've looked around here aeons ago nanoha is my favorite series (with Nanoha being my favorite character) nice to have a place to talk about it :heh:.

Sunder the Gold

2011-09-05, 13:06

Makes more sense this way, since Raising Heart is a machine and thus would have pre set modes already. Imagining her own modes would work for a more traditional magic girl show but Nanoha leans more to the tech side of things. Raising Heart as a device is meant to be a long range weapon, so of course it has default settings to that effect.
Plus, no other Device in the series has demonstrated the ability to instantaneously create new forms.

If those designs were loaded in, then RH theoretically has a variety of designs to choose from. AND it's a radical shapeshifter rather than a simple mode-changer.

No, it probably always had the Staff and Shooting forms, and it was probably Mari who added Excellion Mode, just as she presumably added Zanber Form to Bardiche.

And we know Yuuno couldn't use it probably because he isn't suited for such settings, and he had difficulty adapting to Earth's mana. Nanoha, as an Earth native, wouldn't have that issue.
Interesting thought: Maybe EVERYONE has trouble adjusting to the mana of strange planets, at first?

During Chrono's first appearances, he spent most of his time on the Arthra, and by A's he'd already had some exposure to Earth.

Yuuno's early exposure coincided with him up getting him seriously injured and depleted. That wouldn't help ANYONE adapt.

Alternatively, maybe rather than some random incompatibility, Yuuno might be someone who naturally has trouble adapting to the mana of new planets. Sort of like an unfortunate weakness to pollens, or an allergy to corn.

delorean2200

2011-09-05, 15:45

There is no planet compatibility issues and Chrono of course that he stayed Arthra more, that was his base of operation, he let Nanoha handle the jewel seed search. Also the main reason why the theory is no good is because both the knights and Nanoha plus Fate traveled in A's to different planets fighting and it showed no problem or affection towards there abilities.

As for Yuuno its simple, he explains it himself, is only good at support magic, he can't do attack, that's the reason why he got beaten in S1, same as Shamal in a way, when it comes to support she's number one when it comes to offense though...

Edit: Regarding the devices, they can request upgrades but they cannot operate above specs and auto upgrade, the Cartridge System upgrade and as side effect the Excelion Mode and Zanber Mode where requested by the devices (since this mods take full advantage of the cartridge system), but they need to be implemented by a proper staff or scientist (Mary being at least one of the staff of the ones that implemented it into them at that time i think), Mach Caliber did the same, it requested a change of specs, but it couldn't adjust and do this by itself someone (in that case it was Shario) needed to implement it. So the basic idea is this: Intelligent devices are able to some extent to calculate and come up with mods that would benefit there master, but they themselves cannot implement the changes, a staff/device scientist is needed for that. As a side note, Mach Caliber is the only device i ever seen taking actions on its own.

Nanya01

2011-09-05, 18:13

Sunder the Gold

2011-09-05, 19:44

I agree that nothing anywhere ever mentioned this "mana incompatibility" idea, and it seems like some kind of cop-out (and one they didn't even NEED, which is worse).

But I'm saying that it's not actually a terrible idea, in and of itself, assuming that it's just a problem that people have to adjust to, like adjusting to the thinner air of a higher elevation than one is used to.

As for Yuuno and Raising Heart, I figure that reciting the contract is not enough. The Device has to ACCEPT the contract.

And I imagine that Raising Heart is able to get a strong "feel" for the prospective master's potential when they attempt to contract with it. I also imagine that everyone in Yuuno's clan tried their hand at the Device and failed. None of them had the right talents, mindset, power level, what-have-you.

Yuuno was amazed that such a stubborn Device only required Nanoha to speak the contract ONCE. He didn't realize that it had fully recognized her as its master, after rejecting so many others.

delorean2200

2011-09-06, 00:43

Actually just cause Yuuno isn't good at attack magic it doesn't mean all of the Scrya clan all are, plus Yuuno was adopted his not from the tribe, that's even more reason why you can't use him as a way to figure out the magic capabilities of the clan. Also Yuuno was the previous owner of Raising Heart (though was registered just as guest), if you look closely he used it against the jewel seed monster that left him wounded (but it doesn't seem that he could bring fort more then just stand by mode), its just that he wasn't able to bring fort its potential since he couldn't do attack magic properly. And regarding my previous comment about Mach Caliber being the only device that ever did independent action, i just remember that Raising Heart and Bardiche also did independent actions, though not as extensive as Mach Caliber, Raising Heart when it pulled out a jewel seed on its own to save Nanoha and Bardiche who got in sealing form without fate ordering it.

Archon_Wing

2011-09-06, 00:49

Pretty simple.

Precia creates Fate, and deems her inferior. At whatever point, she just sees her as a stopgap between her and resurrecting Alicia. So Precia no longer gives a fuck about her or her memories, and doesn't bother with editing. Or maybe they can't edit, or memories aren't perfect, as seen later on when Fate starts getting confusing.

Tl;DR Precia wants Alicia and doesn't care about anything else.

Huh?

Are you saying Movie Nanoha thinks Yuuno was a pervert? Because that never comes up in the original series, sound stages or manga.

Hell, she INVITES him to join a girls-only hot springs vacation... when they're teenagers. He has to be the one to tell her that wouldn't be appropriate.

No, I just thought it was funny how Nanoha freaked out temporarily in the series. It's only natural for her to think about it for a second, though she ceases giving a shit afterwards.

My point is that she didn't really have that much of a reaction in the movie, aside from anything else.

But uhh... I think it was a joke, maybe not a very good one. Hard to remember when you're replying to 9 month old posts. :/

:p

Kaijo

2011-09-06, 07:33

There's a couple interesting things in there. Precia is confirmed to know no combat magic, and to have been using some sort of body enhancement magic

I must have missed this. How can they say that on the track when Precia kicks the ass of all those Enforcers? I was under the impression that Fate (and Alicia) got their lightning magic from her.

delorean2200

2011-09-06, 09:05

Something is wrong cause she used like you said a wide range attack spell on the Enforces, Photon Bullet on Arf, Photon Burst to decimate Arf (luckly it missed) and not to mention her cross dimensional Thunder Rage attack... btw Precia is a SS ranked mage.

Archon_Wing

2011-09-06, 15:37

The lightning was obviously made for deep frying things, not combat.

No really, I have no idea. :heh:

Sunder the Gold

2011-09-06, 16:01

It would make more sense to say that while Precia knew body-enhance and attack spells, she had no combat SKILLS.

Triple_R

2011-09-06, 16:05

It would make more sense to say that while Precia knew body-enhance and attack spells, she had no combat SKILLS.

As in, she's not good at hand-to-hand combat. That I can live with.

Otherwise, I'm going with Archon's hilarious interpretation, and I hope that Precia gets hired at the nearest KFC. :p

Sunder the Gold

2011-09-06, 19:11

As in, she's not good at hand-to-hand combat. That I can live with.
Combat skills are more than hand-to-hand techniques. It also includes strategy and tactics.

Precia may have a lot of powerful spells, but that doesn't mean she knows which one is best to use in which situation, or how to set them up in a tactical combination. Also, most of them wouldn't be tuned or refined properly for personal combat, because she lacks the experience to know what those spells ought to do.

Recall how easily Fate was defeated by Chrono in the manga, because she didn't have the experience to guess he might set up a Delayed Bind in his blindspot.

Chrono wasn't never as strong as Fate in a raw power sense, but he was much better skilled at using what he had to work with.

And both Nanoha and Fate were defeated by a single AA mage using a standard Storage Device, because that old lady was simply THAT skilled.

Triple_R

2011-09-06, 19:39

Combat skills are more than hand-to-hand techniques. It also includes strategy and tactics.

I don't agree with the idea that Precia has no strategic or tactical abilities whatsoever. However, I would be able to agree with the idea that she has no training whatsoever in hand-to-hand combat.

I mean, she displayed some semblance of strategy in how she went about trying to achieve her objectives in both this movie, and in the original TV anime.

Sunder the Gold

2011-09-06, 20:13

There's a difference between being smart and an accomplish scientist, and being really good with ALL sorts of brainy things.

Precia has never trained to fight, nor has she regularly engaged in combat. I'm not saying she's stupid, but being smart is never enough against an opponent who IS smart AND skilled.

Akiyoshi

2011-09-06, 20:23

Precia may have a lot of powerful spells, but that doesn't mean she knows which one is best to use in which situation, or how to set them up in a tactical combination. Also, most of them wouldn't be tuned or refined properly for personal combat, because she lacks the experience to know what those spells ought to do.

Well, she certainly know when to use her magic to blast Arf away. And i'm confident to say Arf IS a skilled magic user.

Sunder the Gold

2011-09-06, 21:21

Arf was enraged. She wasn't thinking clearly, and she sure as heck wasn't fighting smart.

Rising Dragon

2011-09-06, 21:31

Most of Arf's combat in the movie was that way--it was all fueled by rage, her primary emotion seemed to be getting pissed off whenever Nanoha or Yuuno appeared to get in the way.

The fact that Precia knows magic spells that can cross dimensions JUST to injure someone shows that she has some combat capabilities. Plus, she took out those mooks. The only thing that really limited Precia was her dying body; her use of magic was killing her.

Tiresias

2011-09-06, 22:05

I must have missed this. How can they say that on the track when Precia kicks the ass of all those Enforcers?

Strange. I'm pretty sure Chrono was the only Enforcer (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3329031&highlight=enforcer#post3329031) on the Athra, and the blue-robes were marines attached to his operation. There was no mention of them being exceptionally skilled in combat - decent, perhaps, but not elite (plus none of them even think to properly bind Precia before exploring which is pretty sloppy; even if the target doesn't show any struggle, a cop was supposed to handcuff 'em anyway) :rolleyes:

Akiyoshi

2011-09-07, 00:31

Kaijo

2011-09-07, 07:32

Strange. I'm pretty sure Chrono was the only Enforcer (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3329031&highlight=enforcer#post3329031) on the Athra, and the blue-robes were marines attached to his operation. There was no mention of them being exceptionally skilled in combat - decent, perhaps, but not elite (plus none of them even think to properly bind Precia before exploring which is pretty sloppy; even if the target doesn't show any struggle, a cop was supposed to handcuff 'em anyway) :rolleyes:

This is where it gets confusing, because Enforcers are shown to look just like troops. Chrono requests Enforcers in A's, and gets guys that look just like the ones we saw in S1. At any rate, regardless of what you call them, Precia used attack spells on them.

Also, Precia knows how to use a whip, so she's semi-skilled with it. If an unskilled person tries to crack a whip, odds are they are going to hurt themselves.

Gaunt88

2011-09-07, 08:17

From what I remember of the sub I watched, they never call those troops "enforcers" in the movie, just "mages". I'm not sure how accurate that sub was, but I like it this way. It fixes that particular inconsistency and brings things closer to the StrikerS portrayal of enforcers as respected high-ranking detectives/agents/whatever.

I also remember Chrono being called a "commissioned officer" or something like that, which would make him navy personnel, rather than an enforcer - which fits with him being made a captain/admiral.

Tiresias

2011-09-07, 09:53

Give the guys some credit, they at least seemed to know how to work as a group, and Precia more likely have prepared to be cornered after attacking the Arthra. Even if the agents are more combat skilled than her Precia still is an unholy powerful mage that very probably prepared an area spell to welcome the poor guys.

I didn't say they should have won - like you said they're in enemy territory, where Precia holds the advantage...which means they should have really take no chances and bind her as soon as the opportunity presents itself ;)

If these guys are Enforcers, then their claim of having high standard is bull

At any rate, regardless of what you call them, Precia used attack spells on them.

My best guess is that her spells were, during the events of the Movie, not yet classified as "combat" magic and more for non-combat purposes (Electricity research? I seem to recall her former work being in an electric company, but the source keeps eluding me :heh:) but she weaponized them for her goals - perhaps akin to using firetrucks to quell demonstrations?

Ah, what the heck. "Tsuzuki" and "consistent continuity" has in several times prove a poor match anyway :rolleyes:

I also remember Chrono being called a "commissioned officer" or something like that, which would make him navy personnel, rather than an enforcer - which fits with him being made a captain/admiral.

Shitsumukan (執務官) can be translated as both Enforcers and Commissioned Officer. (http://nanoha.wikia.com/wiki/Enforcer)

Kaijo

2011-09-07, 18:27

From what I recall, the only time Precia's previous job was mentioned, was the either the movie or the movie manga, where she was working on a project that was a new power source. Something about extracting extra-dimensional energy or something.

There is one other prospect, and that's that what Precia used was simply the Garden of Time's weaponry. Both an internal defense system to hit the mages, and an external weapon system to hit the Arthra.

Rising Dragon

2011-09-07, 18:36

I'd buy that if it weren't for the fact that the lightning wielded by Precia is the exact same color as her magic circle--purple. Just like Fate's lightning is the same color as her own magic circle--yellow.

From what I've noticed in both the movie and in StrikerS is that magic used by mooks is a bluish-white color, without fail. The mages in StrikerS during the Cradle fight all shot blue energy shots, which, given the named characters and their varying magic colors is highly unlikely.

So did the jumbo-mode machine Nanoha and Fate took down--it used the exact same energy color. And chances are, since its pre-StrikerS and thus pre-non-magic weaponry, the machine likely drew magic for the attack.

So I'm guessing that the staves wielded by the Bureau and the attacks wielded by the machine draw out planetary mana to power them, or something to that effect. Wild theory but it's a theory.

Getting back to my original point, with the above in mind, if Precia was using magic weaponry that was integrated into the Garden of Time, it likely would've been bluish-white in color.

Plus, IIRC, in the movie they traced the magic attack as Precia's, giving more precedence that it was Precia herself using those magic attacks rather than a weapon of some sort.

Akiyoshi

2011-09-07, 18:47

Plus, it's a very good justification for her otherwise non-visible SS-rank

Sunder the Gold

2011-09-07, 18:50

Even when using technology to enhance one's own magic, one's magic retains its color.

Precia is surely powerful, but she might have been using the Garden of Time to enhance her attack.

Akiyoshi

2011-09-07, 19:25

Well, i can accept that as the justification for her inter-dimensinal lightning attack(even if canon hasn't mentioned something like this) but i'm pretty sure she blasted Arf and the TSAB soldiers with her own power.

Rising Dragon

2011-09-07, 19:31

Given the inherent dangers of magic amplification as seen in the series, both in the untested, prototype Blaster System and Precia's own usage of magic in the original season, that the Garden of Time has a weapon system that draws magic off of a single user seems both risky and unnecessary--it'd be far more efficient and far less dangerous to the wielder to draw the mana elsewhere, like the Saint's Cradle does with Mid-Childa's twin moons.

Precia's use of magic was killing her and she wouldn't risk using something that'd kill her faster before her chance at reviving Alicia was realized. So no--I'm certain that the magic Precia used was her own magic and not a weapon of the Garden's.

Sunder the Gold

2011-09-07, 19:43

The Blaster System was an attempt to get more power out of the Mage + Intelligence Device combination than the combination normally enjoys.

Using a Device itself as an amplifier is what using a Device is FOR.

The Garden of Time is just a bigger Device. With more room for bigger computers and an independent powersource to add to the mix.

Drawing energy from the powersource wouldn't be any different from using the extra mana from cartridges or Starlight Breaker. Except for the SHEER AMOUNT.

So no. The Blaster System and the Garden of Time are completely different.

The danger of the Blaster System isn't about being "big". It's about being bigger than Nanoha and Raising Heart should be.

Akiyoshi

2011-09-07, 19:55

Except that such specifications about the Garden of Time are only speculation while Blaster system and Intelligent Devices are explored and explained by canon.

Rising Dragon

2011-09-07, 19:55

You have also completely missed my point--that magic amplification is dangerous to the human body even by that time with Mid-Childa technology. We saw with Nanoha that constantly using big attacks and amplifying magic is dangerous--it nearly got Nanoha killed, after all, when it slowed her reflexes. Regardless of whether or not with a wave motion gun installed on a base, cartridges pumping in more magic power, or the Blaster System making Quattro shit her jumpsuit.

Sunder the Gold

2011-09-07, 20:06

How is magic amplification any different from what they're always doing, just on a smaller scale than "Device the Size of a Spacestation" with "Spacestation engine" for a cartridge system?

Rising Dragon

2011-09-07, 20:08

Simple--from what we've seen, the greater the amplication, the more dangerous it becomes. Magic is something to be used in moderation; that was a hard lesson Nanoha had to learn when she was 11 or 12.

Tiresias

2011-09-07, 20:17

From what I recall, the only time Precia's previous job was mentioned, was the either the movie or the movie manga, where she was working on a project that was a new power source. Something about extracting extra-dimensional energy or something.

Hmmm, yeah, I think it's something like that. Still can't remember where, though... :(

You have also completely missed my point--that magic amplification is dangerous to the human body even by that time with Mid-Childa technology. We saw with Nanoha that constantly using big attacks and amplifying magic is dangerous

you do realize this is about a mentally-unbalanced nutcase who was already dying anyway? I don't think Precia would care about the "dangers"

Rising Dragon

2011-09-07, 20:19

you do realize this is about a mentally-unbalanced nutcase who was already dying anyway? I don't think Precia would care about the "dangers"

Even with Precia being nuttier than squirrel poo, she wouldn't be so stupid as to kill herself before she could revive Alicia--why do you think Fate and Arf were doing most of the gruntwork?

Being insane isn't the same as being stupid.

Tiresias

2011-09-07, 20:24

No, but it does risk her into having poorer grasp of her own condition - miscalculating the limits of her body.

Besides, she didn't use the super attack until half the story when she went "to hell with this!" and decided to make do with what she had, insufficient amount of Jewel Seeds be damned - these are the acts of someone desperate.

Akiyoshi

2011-09-07, 20:40

Besides, she didn't use the super attack until half the story when she went "to hell with this!" and decided to make do with what she had, insufficient amount of Jewel Seeds be damned - these are the acts of someone desperate.

Yup, i agree with tyhat, by that point Precia was rushing things up so she decided to eliminate opposition and run with her plan before someone try to stop her.

Keroko

2011-09-08, 06:26

How is magic amplification any different from what they're always doing, just on a smaller scale than "Device the Size of a Spacestation" with "Spacestation engine" for a cartridge system?

Exactly what you said: The sheer amount. Mana overload is dangerous. Both Blaster and Starlight Breaker have pointed this out to us. The only time we've seen spaceship reactor powering a mage in action, it was done by a girl genetically manipulated specifically for that purpose, and even she had to be implanted with a Lost Logia for it to work.

Takamura Mamoru

2013-04-02, 01:00

Not sure where else to post this, but the Movie 1st commentary track has pretty nice stuff. (☝ﾟ∀ﾟ)☝

Caro: And right after is Fate-san's dashing equipping of her under-jacket!
Erio: Aaah! This is probably something I really shouldn't be watching!
Caro: Of course Erio-kun hasn't been doing anything like watching this frame-by-frame, right?
Erio: I haven't! I-i-i-sn't that obvious!

Subaru: Okay, let's ask about something especially for this. Fate-san, your magic is a pretty golden colour, but what colour was Alicia's magic?
Teana: Eh,
"It's a lot like Subaru's, a sky-blue colour."
Ah, is that so.
Subaru: What was it again? Oh yeah, a while ago, there was that thing about finding out your personality based on the colour of your magic.
Teana: There wasn't any scientific basis for it, though.
Subaru: But- eh? Vivio seems to be really interested in this subject.
Teana: Well, then we'll continue this in the next track.
================================================== ====================
Subaru: Right, we're in the next track now. We're already on track 39, wasn't that fast?
Teana: It was.
Vivio: Yep. Well then, please tell us about what the colour of your magic says about your personality.
Teana: You haven't heard about it before?
Vivio: Nope.
Teana: Oh, right, it was quite a long while ago that it got popular, so you wouldn't know about it. What about Erio and Caro?
Subaru: Looks like they know a little.
Teana: Nanoha-san and Fate-san would have been just the right age for that, right?
Subaru: Eh? Oh, wait, they spent a lot of time living on Earth, too.
Teana: But they say they've at least heard that there's something like that.
Subaru: Well then, let's get into into.
Teana: I don't really remember much of it, though...
Vivio: Excited~
Subaru: The water-blue or sky-blue of Alicia's and my own magic means positive and optimistic.
Vivio: Eh? But I think Enforcer Chrono's magic is also that sort of blue.
Subaru: Um, Enforcer Chrono's color is more of a normal sort of blue.
Teana: Really? What does that say for him then?
Subaru: People who have blue are serious and straight-laced.
Teana: It seems right. Is Ginga-san blue as well?
Subaru: Gin-see has more of a marine blue color, so between of blue and purple? Purples have a strong sense of responsibility and feel deep affection for their loved ones.
Teana: Presea-joshi is another purple, and- Oh, Nanoha-san says Reinforce does too.
Subaru: Eh? Doesn't Rein-san have white magic?
Vivio: Not commanding officer Zwei, but the first one.
Subaru: Oh, I see. It looked sort of black, but it was a sort of purple.
Teana: I've heard that reds are passionate and straightforward, and it really does seem that way.
Subaru: Right! Like with vice-captain Vita. Vice-captain Signum is a sort of purply-red, so she's both passionate and responsible.
Teana: If mixed colors are allowed, then anything goes. Oh, Caro and Fate-san look like they're enjoying this.
Subaru: Fate-san's golden color is quite rare so it's not too certain, but yellow is kind and well-mannered.
Vivio: That matches Fate-mama and Erio pretty well. What about Caro and Nanoha-mama's pink?
Subaru: Eeeh, Nanoha-san and Caro's pink color is... Um... what was it again?
Teana: It was something like 'virtuous and focused', right?
Subaru: Ah, right! Nanoha-san and Caro are virtuous and focused.
Teana: Nanoha-san's color is a little more red, so she'd also be passionate and straightforward?
Vivio: Oooh.
Subaru: It's right on!
Vivio: Then what about Tea-san and Arf-san's orange color?
Subaru: Um, empathetic and deeply emotional.
Teana: That might be right for Arf, but it's a bit off for me.
Subaru: Eh? But Tea, you're empathetic! And it's a mix of red and yellow, so you're kind and passionate and come off as a bit of an angry person.
Teana: Right, right, now you're just bending it however you feel like.
Vivio: Hey, hey, what about my rainbow colored magic? What would that be?
Subaru: Eh? E-eh, um, r-rainbow means... a bright and happy little girl!
Teana: You just made that up.
Subaru: Ehehehe... yes.

Subaru: When you introduce chief Yuuno to other people, don't you say "This is my childhood friend and the person who taught me magic", right?
Nanoha: Yeah, I do.
Subaru: When you say that to people who've heard of you, they get terrified.
Nanoha: Eh? Why's that? Why?
Teana: Subaru and I felt like that too. Nanoha-san is our teacher, so-
Subaru: "The teacher of the Ace of Aces has got to be someone really amazing!"
Nanoha: A-ah...
Vivio: People who don't really know about mama and chief Yuuno would probably think of chief Yuuno as some sort of legendary figure who fires off huge Busters or Breakers and says things like "Were you surprised? That was only 20% of my full power!"

Vivio: Ahh, Presea-san, that's horrible.
Fate: Um, Presea-okaa-san was really angry, but I think if she really felt only hate for me, then she would have done even more horrible things.
Vivio: ... More horrible things?
Fate: Um, like wounding me even more?
Erio: Didn't she hold back so Fate-san could still gather Jewel Seeds for her?
Fate: That might have been part of it, but she never gave me any wounds that couldn't be healed with first aid magic.

Erio: And then one who gives Fate-san the strength to stand up once more is Fate-san's beloved device, Bardiche.
================================================== =================
Subaru: Bardiche is so brave and reliable.
Caro: He's quiet, but really nice.
Teana: I think his silence is one of the great things about him. Doing things through action and not words, and protecting his master as her weapon at all times.
Subaru: This scene is exactly that! He's all beat up, but he shows that he can still do it, that he can still fight-
Erio: The only thing he says is the single line, "Get set".

Teana: On-screen, Nanoha-san's so happy that Fate-san called her name that she's crying.
Nanoha: Well, I was really happy. Fate-chan's hand was so warm, and so was the way she smiled at me and called my name.
Subaru: Fate-san's wiping away Nanoha-san's tears. She's so kind!
Vivio: She's so cool!
Teana: Ah, Nanoha-san's hugging her.
Nanoha: I was happy that she accepted me. I still remember that warmth from when you embraced me, even now.
Vivio: Ah, Fate-mama's getting embarassed over there. Even though it's not anything to blush over!