View Full Version : Twelve kingdoms (Juuni Kokki)
Quarkboy
2003-11-09, 02:25
Oh, spoiler alert, but this show is old anyway. Not to mention complicated enough that reading this post without having watched the show would just be gibberish anyway.
So I just watched all currently subbed episodes of 12 kingdoms (42), and a number of seemingly important plot points went completely unanswered. I was wondering if anyone who has read the novels on which this absolutely GREAT anime is based on could fill me in (or maybe if there's a fan website that has tons of info, point me to it).
Specifically: What happened to Tai's Kirin Taiki? Why is he back in Japan? His story kindof stopped with him still in the TAI kingdom? Does anything else happen between Yuuka and Taiki in Japan? What was the nature of his curse (well, I can guess what it was, it was obviously that uber power youma he caught, but how is the issue resolved?) Why has Tai fallen into such chaos with a seemingly good natured emperor?
If there was only one fruit growing on the tree where Kirin's are born (the one for Kou), that implies that Hou's Kirin was not actually killed in the uprising, or that it had already been reborn and is currently being raised by the Sages (which would seem odd that you never see him/her there when Youko visits). Why has Ryuu gone corrupt? What's the deal with the youma's that even Kirin's and emperors cannot defeat? Are they as powerful as the god's? Since there are so many kaikyaku's in En, and En's kirin goes to Japan all the time, why hasn't anyone ever managed to return home, especially when it's common knowledge that the coutrie's Taioh was born as a Taika?
Did anyone else notice that the only conspiring minister that is spared the empresses wrath at the end of the show is the female? I almost found that a bit sexist since she was obviously conspiring with the coucil-head guy.
So that was a bunch of questions, but the main one is the first one... it seems to me like that's a whole arc they left out.
DrWho2002
2003-11-09, 03:10
I think some of the Taiki stuff is told more in the books, but from what I've heard the story is not yet complete, and it doesn't look like the author of the books will be writing more anytime soon. That is also similar to the reason why they stopped the series at ep 45. We won't be getting any answers to the stories unresolved plots anytime soon I'm afraid.
I think some of the Taiki stuff is told more in the books, but from what I've heard the story is not yet complete, and it doesn't look like the author of the books will be writing more anytime soon. That is also similar to the reason why they stopped the series at ep 45. We won't be getting any answers to the stories unresolved plots anytime soon I'm afraid.
Is that true? Hmm thats too sad if its really true... :(
NoSanninWa
2003-11-11, 02:13
Actually, I understand that we would have gotten back to Taiki's story in episode 46, but the producers stopped the show because they felt that viewers wouldn't really be interested in it unless they could work Youko into the story. Originally they were going to rewrite it so that Youko could play a major part, but they ran into trouble with the rewrites since there wasn't enough information on some of the characters (Tai's General of the Left Division) to be sure of how they would react in the rewritten scenario. Their hope is that future books will reveal more information on the characters so that they can rewrite the story the way they want it to be.
That's why it is on indefinite hiatus.
NoSanninWa
2003-11-11, 03:04
Ditto! I hate the reason that they cancelled the show, but I think I'd hate it more if they had rewritten it. Ugh! It's like choosing between being in the frying pan or the fire!
Although I really like Youko I think the author of these novels are doing a super great job! So I really dont mind if they continue on without rewriting. But at the same time it would be cool if we could see Youko more as well...
NenMaster
2003-11-11, 10:59
wish they did finish this anime, its 2 god to leave it as it is :(
DrWho2002
2003-11-11, 15:04
Although I really like Youko I think the author of these novels are doing a super great job! So I really dont mind if they continue on without rewriting. But at the same time it would be cool if we could see Youko more as well...
You can't have your cake and eat it too. =p
You can't have your cake and eat it too. =p
Yeah unfortunately thats too true. ;)
LuciaMelody
2003-11-14, 17:27
Did anybody see it? I watched the first episode on a demo disk from Newtype magazine and it looked really good. It reminded me of Fushigi Yuugi and Magic Knights Rayearth and even Ceres. :)
But its a series which means I cant just buy 1-2 DVDs.....$$$$$ :( So trying to see if its that good....
NenMaster
2003-11-14, 19:14
its a amazinf series and well done, not many animes have put that much detail into the story.
buy it :P or rent it
I wish I could enough japanese to read the books the series is based on.
Go-lytely
2003-11-14, 20:19
If you liked the first episode then this show might be worth getting. A lot of people I talked with said they didnt like the beginning and it took them a few episodes to get into it and now they love it. For me, the show just got better and better after each episode. I'm glad I'm buying the dvds because it gives me an excuse to watch it all over again and understand plot points that I may have missed earlier.
MTB{SOLO}
2003-11-14, 20:26
Words cant adequately describe my love for this series.......although there is a bit of disapointment that they are cutting it short in japan :(
Even so, at 5 eps per disc its well worth the buy. When you think Fushigi Yuugi, you're not totally off in the similarities, but the story and the development of the world of the Twelve Kingdoms go far beyond and wind up blowing it away (and most other series for that matter:p). I think its the type of series you want to watch over and over......at least for me it is.
The DVDs are truley a great investment.
It's an amazing show. It talks a lot of politics but it's not boring at all. The first time I watched it I hated it because of all the whining in the first few episodes. But the second time around I managed to go through that and I got hooked up and it became one of my all-time favorite anime. Too bad they have to cut it short because of the material.
As many have said before, this series is really the best out there! At least for me who only like to watch good anime. :p The character development is really good as you can see how the characters change because of different things that they encounter. The details are great and there are no plot holes at all at least not that I know of. This series is really worth the gold it costs simply because the show is pure gold!
This show is marvelous. The first episode grabbed me right away because of how Keiki summons his youmas, kinda felt like a mature Pokemon. But I was surprised on how much depth this anime had. Rakushun is the man!
NenMaster
2003-11-15, 19:20
yea i didnt like iot at the start, was annoying when she kept crying but now i love this series
LuciaMelody
2003-11-17, 16:13
Thats great! I ordered the DVD!!! :p
How come they cut the number of episodes then?
PS
There is already a thread about this anime...
sorry!!! didnt see it.
microlith
2003-11-18, 00:18
They caught up to the novels. To go any further they would have had to make stuff up and I don't think they wanted (or even could) do that.
It's quite possible that given enough time to write more novels, NHK will pick the series up and continue it. Won't be for a while though.
NoSanninWa
2003-11-18, 01:39
They did not catch up to the novels. There are enough novels already written to carry the series to episode 64. The cancelled the series because the later novels don't have Youko as a main character and the idiot producers feel that unless they rewrite the show to give Youko a more central role they will lose their audience.
Originally they were planning to rewrite the story of the novels, but they were running into problems with the scripts since some of the characters would need to be rewritten to fit with the new plot. Unfortunately the character of Tai's General of the Left Division isn't well enough defined in the already written novels that they could figure out what he would say if he met Youko.
That's when the rewrites faltered and they decided to cancel the show. Perhaps when more novels are written they will be able to rewrite it without fear of inconsistency. Personally, I'm hoping that they will eventually decide to simply go with the authors original plot instead of rewriting it for ratings.
But its a series which means I cant just buy 1-2 DVDs.....$$$$$ :( So trying to see if its that good....
One point to remember is that the first story arc consists of the first 14 episodes (the first three DVDs), so at least you can buy then and then decide if you want (or afford) to continue.
NoSanninWa
2003-11-18, 17:45
xris is right. These first 14 episodes really do conclude the first story. They've got a real conclusion, so you won't feel incomplete if you don't get episode 15. The only reason to get the fourth DVD is if you're dying to see more. (Of course if you do that, you won't be disappointed since there are so many more great story arcs to come. Then you'll be hooked and incapable of breaking free of this addiction!)
LuciaMelody
2003-11-19, 16:14
Then you'll be hooked and incapable of breaking free of this addiction!)
o_x!
Thank u for telling me about 14 eps. Otherwise I would probably afraid to buy more. (remembers neverending Cardcaptor Sakura)
Sepiraph
2003-11-20, 05:18
Junni Kokki (12 Kingdoms) is an excellent series. I would say that almost no other anime series would come close to its depth in term of story and character development. I only wish I could read japanese to read the actual novel on which the series is based on.
NoSanninWa
2003-11-20, 16:58
Some of the novel has been translated by fans. It is much more detailed and complex than the anime. If you're intested then you can find the beginning of it here (http://12ktp.dyndns.org/) and more of it here (http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kf49/TwelveKingdoms/index.html).
CommS007
2003-11-22, 21:43
I loved it :)
And it's finally also being stocked at my local store :D
I can't wait till they have all the 4 DVD's in stock.
Lady~Kagome
2003-11-29, 11:30
I'm am so excited that there are other people besides myself who like The Twelve Kingdoms! I have only seen the first five episodes, because where I live they have only released the first two DVDs, and I'm out of money currently. I would recommend Twelve Kingdoms to anyone who likes anime. From what I've seen its very well done, and the art is fantastic.
Thanks to those of you who know a lot about this anime, you have told me many things I don't know. I'm very sad that it doesn't seem to be continuing on, but its nice to know that there are novels out there. Can someone help me out, and let me know if they are translated? And if they are, is there anywhere I can buy them?
I wanted to know how many eps were subbed for this series? I currently have 42. But on animenfo.com it says that there is a total of 68 and that NHK halted at episode 45. And I can't find anything beyond 42. Can someone clear this situation up for me? Thanks :]
sorry for type-o. it's 12 Kingdoms (-_-)
NoSanninWa
2003-12-10, 04:50
Your information about how many episodes there are is accurate although incomplete. I believe that there is a thread where I answer the question in detail. Search for it if you want to know more.
As for how many were subbed... that is irrelevant since we do not endorse the subbing of licensed anime. You'll need to figure how to learn that for yourself.
lighter junkie
2003-12-10, 17:58
haven't really seen the show yet, but from all the rumors/gossips floating around, i think i'd like to take a look at the anime once it comes out in U.S., i supposed it's gonna take quite a while with all the fuzz about the unfishined story etc. anyhow, so it is true that junni kokki will end at ep 45 instead 68? or they're just halting the production at 45, and the rest of the series will eventually be released. sorry for asking all these questions, but thanks to whomever willing to share the knowledge!
DrWho2002
2003-12-10, 19:44
If you search around the forums there are other threads that will answer your questions. (BTW, did you even read the rest of this thread?)
The first couple DVD's for Juuni Kokki are out here already. (or at least the first volume for sure that I know of).
lighter junkie
2003-12-10, 20:15
If you search around the forums there are other threads that will answer your questions. (BTW, did you even read the rest of this thread?)
The first couple DVD's for Juuni Kokki are out here already. (or at least the first volume for sure that I know of).
yes, i actually did search the forum for junni kokki, and aside from this thread, only two others with the obvious name junni kokki as the title of the thread existed, and both of which aren't really informative at all.[ if i missed something, please link me to the thread?] and I did read the entire thread before I posted my questions, since i stated that I've never even started the show, i was really confused with what the others said about Taiki...etc, the mentioning of characters' names and the discussion of the plot, I merely asked a question because after I read all the information I can get, I was still unable to comprehend what was going on with the series.
And I've checked a couple of the local retails at ny, and they told me that they've never even heard of such a title, if you would just kindly point me to a store where i can purchase the two DVDs that are out already, I can't get them via internet, since i don't have a credit card at the moment.
thanks anyone else, for the help.
NoSanninWa
2003-12-10, 20:33
How about this. The last sentence should contain your answer.
And I've checked a couple of the local retails at ny, and they told me that they've never even heard of such a title, if you would just kindly point me to a store where i can purchase the two DVDs that are out already, I can't get them via internet, since i don't have a credit card at the moment.
thanks anyone else, for the help.
It's called "Twelve Kingdoms" in R1 release by Media Blaster. First three volumes are already out and fourth is coming next Jan.
yes, i actually did search the forum for junni kokki
Well, it would have helped if you searched for Juuni Kokki and not for Junni Kokki!
And I just purchased the first three DVDs of Twelve Kingdoms from www.dvdpacific.com during the last few weeks, so they should be easy to find / order at your local DVD store.
lighter junkie
2003-12-10, 20:45
How about this. The last sentence should contain your answer.
yeah, thanks, the indefinite hiatus, i took it as it means the show's indefinitely postponed till something can resolve the development of the story...no?, but when i checked the 'How Many episodes..' thread, it concluded that junni kokki was going to end at 45. does it mean there's going to be another season? or that's it after ep 45.
i'm sorry i've been really persistent about this matter, but i really wanted to get a clear answer before i buy the stuff.
yeah, thanks, the indefinite hiatus, i took it as it means the show's indefinitely postponed till something can resolve the development of the story...no?, but when i checked the 'How Many episodes..' thread, it concluded that junni kokki was going to end at 45. does it mean there's going to be another season? or that's it after ep 45.
i'm sorry i've been really persistent about this matter, but i really wanted to get a clear answer before i buy the stuff.
It's likely the rest of the episodes will be produced but it's really up in the air right now. Personally I don't care that Youko is not in the show and I don't want them to modify the original novel in order to put Youko in it. But I guess it's really up to the general fans in Japan...
Media Blaster is releasing the DVDs based on the length of the arc. If you like certain arc, you can just buy the DVDs for that particular arc. For example. first three DVDs covers the first arc about Youko in the anime. It's quite conclusive IMO and you can wait for the Taiki story to be concluded later on to buy the rest of the DVDs.
NoSanninWa
2003-12-10, 21:00
yeah, thanks, the indefinite hiatus, i took it as it means the show's indefinitely postponed till something can resolve the development of the story...no?, but when i checked the 'How Many episodes..' thread, it concluded that junni kokki was going to end at 45. does it mean there's going to be another season? or that's it after ep 45.
i'm sorry i've been really persistent about this matter, but i really wanted to get a clear answer before i buy the stuff.
The show already ended at episode 45. There is no word about when, or even if, they are ever going to make any more episodes. Ever. Maybe there will be another season. Maybe there won't be. That's what I meant by "indefinite hiatus."
Don't worry about getting cut off in the middle of things. They finish a storyline at episode 45.
lighter junkie
2003-12-10, 21:07
thanks a LOT lordwu, NoSanninWa, and ojisan for the info, and :bow: :bow: :uhoh: heh i'll make sure to check on stupid typos next time i search for something new.
i'll stop the nonsensical rambling and give peace to this thread once again. Thanks again, people. and i'm looking forward to the series.
mrpenpen84
2003-12-12, 03:36
I guess I'm not the only one really into this anime. If anyones interested in know what really to Taiki and Gyousou, I know some info from the book. It looks like Gyousou realy became a tyrant type ruler and died from an ambush. Betrayed by those closed to him, Taiki was strucked with a sword. The blade wedged into Taiki's horn as he was in his animal form. He didn't die, but disapeared. Sanshi searched for him and found him. Only to find him in a shoku that did not let her in. Eventually, they both made it back, yet Taiki did not remember a thing. Wakeing up in front of a funeral. Yep, you understand what happenes next^_^.
I guess I'm not the only one really into this anime. If anyones interested in know what really to Taiki and Gyousou, I know some info from the book. It looks like Gyousou realy became a tyrant type ruler and died from an ambush. Betrayed by those closed to him, Taiki was strucked with a sword. The blade wedged into Taiki's horn as he was in his animal form. He didn't die, but disapeared. Sanshi searched for him and found him. Only to find him in a shoku that did not let her in. Eventually, they both made it back, yet Taiki did not remember a thing. Wakeing up in front of a funeral. Yep, you understand what happenes next^_^.
GAAHHHHHH!!! That made my desire for more even stronger!!!!! I love this series and prays every day that there will be more...
ps. Can you write more? :bow: Im really interested in what happens to all the people in that world...
I just caught wind of this series and its freakin awesome.However when i looked at animenfo.com it say this [Total Episodes 68 (NHK halted at episode 45) ]
Does this mean the entire series was never finshed and discontinued after episdoe 45 or are there really 68 episdoes,I hope to in the near future(when i gets me a job,and my birthday,umm good friday,easter,maybe next christmas) i would like to buy them
It's only 45 eps in total. I think the last arc ended at ep 45.
Grifis
StarCreator
2004-01-04, 01:14
This has been brought up many times. The answer, again...
When the series started, it was originally planned at 68 episodes. However, NHK halted it at episode 45 (at the end of that particular story arc). Two possible explanations for this have been given...
1) NHK feels that, if Youko isn't the main protagonist (she doesn't appear in this next arc in the novel order) then they won't have as much of a viewer base.
2) They may be waiting for more novels to be finished by the original author.
There hasn't been any additional word as far as I know.
acefighter
2004-01-04, 13:56
dont worry. if they start up again. thier wont be a bad delay for america translation
I forgot all about this anime. Jk is excellent... I like how the they go in depth with each character. You are never really left wondering why?
This is usually not my type of anime but I gave it a chance one night and dl/ed the the first episode. I was hooked after that!
I'm interested in getting this series, but I can't seem to find the artbox. Did they release one or are they waiting for the complete collection?
I'm interested in getting this series, but I can't seem to find the artbox. Did they release one or are they waiting for the complete collection?
I assume you mean a box for the DVDs. I wasn't aware that there was going to be one, but I not absolutely sure. I would suggest you check out AnimeOnDVD (http://www.animeondvd.com/) and have a look around there under Release Dates or Reviews, or ask in their forum.
They (Media Blasters) mentioned somewhere that due to odd circumstances with episode production (namely, they didn't know how many episodes would be produced at said rate) it'd be difficult for them to release a box for a series that wasn't quite done yet, due to volume count changing. They said once the 15th (or last) DVD was out, they would release a boxed set and an empty artbox for those who had been following the series.
Hope that helps
Go-lytely
2004-02-07, 00:15
That last arc stunk. What ruined it for me was that they completely forgave the kid with the youma. They murdered a bunch of people and the kid gets off scotfree. I agree with the producers now because I enjoyed the eps with Yoko much more than the ones that didnt focus on her.
I liked it. The youma kid was forgiven at the end because Shoryuu was supposed to be an all-forgiving emperor who would forgive anyone if they truly wished for it. The fact that the youma kid didn't murder anyone especially close to the Shoryuu or Enki (like how Asano almost killed Kei-Kei) might have also influenced the emperor's leniency.
And I liked the Taiki arc too although the best was by far the third arc (the Yoko, Shoukei, Suzu one). I hope the series is continued sometime in the future.
Go-lytely
2004-02-07, 18:22
What about the female advisor? I forget her name but she was pretty close to both of taiki and shouryuu
Ribi? I think that's a different case though since she wasn't directly killed by the youma kid. It was more along the lines of sacrifice rather than homicide. By the way, do you (or anyone else) know the name of the song of when Sanshi took Taiki back to the Juuni Kokki world? I'm pretty sure it's in one of the OSTs but I can't find the name of it. It sounded like a wind ensemble with a guitar.
I've not been able to find the answer to my question in my searches, so if it has been answered already, please forgive.
Has anyone heard of the hold-up on The Twelve Kingdoms DVD 4 ? It was due out a few weeks ago. Disk 5 is slated to be out March 30.
Please note I am not talking fansubs, I am talking about the actual licensed DVD's.
Any news is welcome as are comments.
Has anyone heard of the hold-up on The Twelve Kingdoms DVD 4 ?
There isn't one as far as I know.
I have Vol 4 at this very moment, it was deliveried last Monday (and I must add this was shipped to the U.K.)
Ordered it from DVDPacific (http://www.dvdpacific.com/) and they posted it in a matter of days.
I haven't heard any delays for Twelve Kingdoms vol 4. Deepdiscountdvd shipped out my copy late last month and received it a couple weeks ago.
I also have my copy--found on the shelf in Suncoast.
StarCreator
2004-02-16, 04:21
I watched mine over a week ago.
Galvatron
2004-02-17, 20:12
This happened to me to, at Suncoast, it wasn't there on it's release date and they had no records in their books of it coming out anytime soon, but i went back a week later for another release and finally it showed up..keep looking it's definately gonna be there sooner or later
AnimeOni
2004-02-20, 16:33
It's at Best Buy. I see four copies on the shelves today.
SamGadsby
2004-05-09, 23:56
So fansubbing stopped at 44, and the last episode is 45 so I heard. (I'm not asking for them, I know it's liscensed.) However, AnimeNfo says there are 68 episodes. Were only 45 episodes encoded? or are there only 45 episodes to the series? Who is correct? How many episodes are there?
Also, if it's only 45, then what happened to the Tai country story arc, with the black kirin?
So he lost his memory and is living in Japan,.. now what? The series just dropped that without explaining why or resolving it. Did I miss something?
"(45) Juuni Kokki (aka Twelve Kingdoms), cut back from the original 68"
That's what it says in the "How many episodes" thread.
babbito2k
2004-05-10, 00:06
"Cut back" is correct. Youko is no longer the main character after the series gets past a certain point and the action kind of sprawls. The plug was pulled because the show was changing too much.
Episode 45 is a wrapup of the story arc preceding it, at least that's what I gathered from reading about that episode. So I guess not much was missed.
But I really liked what was happening in the later arcs. The way they presented it was great, with Youko learning deeper Confucian principles through hearing the stories.
Za Paper
2004-05-10, 00:08
So fansubbing stopped at 44, and the last episode is 45 so I heard. (I'm not asking for them, I know it's liscensed.) However, AnimeNfo says there are 68 episodes. Were only 45 episodes encoded? or are there only 45 episodes to the series? Who is correct? How many episodes are there?
Also, if it's only 45, then what happened to the Tai country story arc, with the black kirin?
So he lost his memory and is living in Japan,.. now what? The series just dropped that without explaining why or resolving it. Did I miss something?
Dont trust Animenfo, they have been slacking lately. The Taiki arc was never resolved. Maybe it was explained later in the novels but the anime never explained how he got back to Hourai.
This whole time I thought there were only 44 episodes! O_o I wanna see 45 now!
They stopped the series because from that point on the plot changed to other people and Youko wasn't involved anymore. Also, the writer of the novel series hasn't finished the novels and I don't believe there's any word on where he's going to be continuing them, he stopped writing them in 2001...
Too bad, eh? That's one of the best series ever...
Oh and about the black kirin, it was never explained the the series, which is too bad because they put lots of episodes into that arc with no ending for it... I believe the site that translates the novels online has the answer, I'm not sure.
Yamano667
2004-05-10, 10:59
Well 45 episodes is enough for me, 68 episodes was going to be too much and
anyways THEY WERE LOSING THE THREAD OF THE STORY
babbito2k
2004-05-10, 11:21
Well 45 episodes is enough for me, 68 episodes was going to be too much and anyways THEY WERE LOSING THE THREAD OF THE STORYTo me the thread of the story is Confucianism - the philosophy of right conduct leading to the greatest good. I thought that the series had a very tight grasp on this theme, and that it was well-expressed and understandable.
Having said that, it is hard to see much purpose in prolonging the series. Youko had not mastered everything but she was very capable. There were already plenty of contrasting stories told to show how things could go wrong through bad intentions or focus on less than the greatest good.
SamGadsby
2004-05-10, 11:48
I liked these new story arcs. The show is called twelve kingdoms and I was looking forward to a story involving all of them. I also liked how they were teaching her about this world.
Well, I think they could've done something about the black kirin ;) just make something up that ties Youko in the plot, her friend was hanging around with the guy and wondering what he was, so maybe she could come back in the series for the ending too... I know it wouldn't be following the novel, but I've never had a problem with a little creativity, it would've given a proper ending :)
Isn't there a cd drama that concluded Taiki's story?
TrexSchad
2004-05-20, 18:17
Did anyone else notice that the only conspiring minister that is spared the empresses wrath at the end of the show is the female? I almost found that a bit sexist since she was obviously conspiring with the coucil-head guy.
My understanding is that the woman (and man beside her) were Ministers of Shuukan, which is the ministry that oversees the ministers in the Kingdom. Kei-oh understood that by removing the Ministers of Shuukan, she'd be interefering in a place she shouldn't. Rather, she is allowing them to convict their own friends as a testament to her power to see what they were up to.
I think it was brilliant, not sexist.
This has been brought up many times. The answer, again...
When the series started, it was originally planned at 68 episodes. However, NHK halted it at episode 45 (at the end of that particular story arc). Two possible explanations for this have been given...
1) NHK feels that, if Youko isn't the main protagonist (she doesn't appear in this next arc in the novel order) then they won't have as much of a viewer base.
2) They may be waiting for more novels to be finished by the original author.
There hasn't been any additional word as far as I know.
As I understnd it "68 episodes" was actually never officially announced by NHK. That number was actually one that a MediaBlasters rep dropped in a JK topic on the AOD board. 39 was definitely the initial target, with more tentatively planned. As after 39 there was a several month hiatus before 40-45 aired; guess they couldn't satisfactorily reconcile the material from the novel with the idea of keeping Youko the main thread (at least with what they had to work with at that time). Hopefully it'll continue once they've worked those details out.
LordTenchi7
2004-05-23, 18:22
Animenfo removed the halted part and now says 68 eps. I have been looking around and it looks like they may be starting it up again. I AM SOOOOO HAPPY!!!!
DrWho2002
2004-05-24, 00:22
Any sites that confirm that? I'm gonna need more than the word of some poster.
I second that.
I'm going to be very happy if its true :)
ZeppelinJ0
2004-06-03, 16:30
Just bringing this one back... Any idea how many episodes there actually are? Volume 6 and 7 are slated for release on DVD, not sure what episodes these are.
donna8157
2004-06-05, 19:13
There are 39 episodes and they recently released 40-45 (I believe). The DVD yet to come out contains Episodes 19-22. (please correct me if i'm wrong)
I'm also a big fan of Juuni Kokki. I hope they will continue it.
ZeppelinJ0
2004-06-06, 03:07
So the english will be up to episode 29, but they plan on releasing up to 45? Will there be more after 45, or is that it?
I also love this series, the changes she undergoes throught are very touching :)
OFF TOPIC- I also see you're a Tutu fan ;) What other series do you like, I'll take your advice since we seem to enjoy similar things!
I am interested in this anime and prepare to watch . My friends tell me that is an excellent anime and totally 've 45 eps but I found it 've 68 eps showed by animenfo.com .
So anyone could tell me is 45 eps an ending ? If not, I think I 'll wait until there was whole series. coz I don't want stop halfway or don't know ending after watched all eps .
I am interested in this anime and prepare to watch . My friends tell me that is an excellent anime and totally 've 45 eps but I found it 've 68 eps showed by animenfo.com .
So anyone could tell me is 45 eps an ending ? If not, I think I 'll wait until there was whole series. coz I don't want stop halfway or don't know ending after watched all eps .
I suggest you have a read of this thread from the beginning. This question has been frequently asked and it has been answered before :)
Yamano667
2004-06-07, 12:04
Oh we know its licensed xris :D
thats why we were discussing it on this forum ..or I am in the wrong one ??
I suggest you have a read of this thread from the beginning. This question has been frequently asked and it has been answered before :)
Aquillion
2004-06-13, 10:08
I guess I'm not the only one really into this anime. If anyones interested in know what really to Taiki and Gyousou, I know some info from the book. It looks like Gyousou realy became a tyrant type ruler and died from an ambush. Betrayed by those closed to him, Taiki was strucked with a sword. The blade wedged into Taiki's horn as he was in his animal form. He didn't die, but disapeared. Sanshi searched for him and found him. Only to find him in a shoku that did not let her in. Eventually, they both made it back, yet Taiki did not remember a thing. Wakeing up in front of a funeral. Yep, you understand what happenes next^_^.Are you certain about this? I thought an Emperor's death was something that couldn't occur without everyone knowing immediately.
Are you certain about this? I thought an Emperor's death was something that couldn't occur without everyone knowing immediately.
That information was an interpretation based on the translation of the prologue of 'Tasogare no Kishi, Akatsuki no Sora'.
Visit this site if you want to read it for yourself:
http://www.otyaku.com/animeObserver/index.html
In any case, this novel, which continues the Taiki arc, does feature Youko. The only non-Youko novel left to animate is the story of how the Empress of Kyou came to the throne around 100 years earlier.
firstian
2004-07-03, 10:45
I'm thinking of getting the DVD and get my wife to watch it. Unfortunately, she doesn't like subs, so I'm wondering if the dub is good enough to watch. FWIW, I hate most dubs, including all the Disney releases of Ghibli stuff. Although I did read in some newsgroup that 12K's dub is pretty good. Any opinions?
donna8157
2004-07-03, 13:13
The dub is pretty good surprisingly. ^_^
Yamano667
2004-07-04, 15:19
well thats good to hear ..
The dub is pretty good surprisingly. ^_^
NoSanninWa
2004-09-11, 04:34
This again.... http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=564#post9620.
NOTE TO MODS: I would have posted this in a Junni Kokki thread, but seeing as the series has been around for a while- I was quite worried about spoilers. So far, I've had Full Moon wo Sagashite, Nadesico, and the Violinist of Hamelin spoiled on this forum.
Gosh- that move was FAST! you mods really should take it easy- I had a legitimate reason for creating a new thread- see above.
You edited that onto your post just as I was moving it so I didn't have a chance to read it first. You've got a point. I'm moving it back to its own thread and copying my answer below so that you won't have to follow the above link.
Oh- just read your additions to that last post- thanks
NoSanninWa
2004-09-11, 04:37
Starting with episode 46 the story was going to move away from Youko's story. Her part after that is as a supporting character so the producers stopped the production because they felt that viewers wouldn't really be interested in it unless they could work Youko into the story. Originally they were going to rewrite it so that Youko could play a major part, but they ran into trouble with the rewrites since there wasn't enough information on some of the characters (Tai's General of the Left Division) to be sure of how they would react in the rewritten scenario. Their hope is that future books will reveal more information on the characters so that they can rewrite the story the way they want it to be.
That's why it is on indefinite hiatus.
As for the question about how it ends: Episode 45 concludes a storyline so at least you won't be cut off in the middle of an arc.
That's something of a relief. I hear that translations of the books can be found; perhaps I'll check into them once I get through 45
Thanks for the help!
NoSanninWa
2004-09-11, 04:42
Translation of the beginning of the first volume (http://12ktp.inspirelight.net/)
Translation of some of the later volumes (http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kf49/TwelveKingdoms/index.html)
That's something of a relief. I hear that translations of the books can be found; perhaps I'll check into them once I get through 45
Thanks for the help!
Now that you have your answer, I'll plan to merge this into the main Juuni Kokki thread in a little while.
Yamano667
2004-09-11, 12:06
The novel has to tell the story on the whole 12 kingdoms, is not just Youko's story ;) for that they would have to change the title of the novel :)
It would be nice if the story continued ....to the very END
Starting with episode 46 the story was going to move away from Youko's story. Her part after that is as a supporting character so the producers stopped the production because they felt that viewers wouldn't really be interested in it unless they could work Youko into the story. Originally they were going to rewrite it so that Youko could play a major part, but they ran into trouble with the rewrites since there wasn't enough information on some of the characters (Tai's General of the Left Division) to be sure of how they would react in the rewritten scenario. Their hope is that future books will reveal more information on the characters so that they can rewrite the story the way they want it to be.
That's why it is on indefinite hiatus.
As for the question about how it ends: Episode 45 concludes a storyline so at least you won't be cut off in the middle of an arc.
NoSanninWa
2004-09-12, 02:45
Now that you have your answer, I'll plan to merge this into the main Juuni Kokki thread in a little while.
Please don't. This specific question comes up frequently enough and people asking it often have reasons not to watch spoilers.
I think that there is sufficient reason to leave these threads separate for the sake of future question askers.
Draikan7
2004-10-25, 04:16
anyone know any good websites on 12 kingdoms? the show is really confusing in some parts so i was wondering if there was a website that summarized each episode or a detailed explanation of the overall story? thanks
Ialdaboth
2004-10-25, 08:38
anyone know any good websites on 12 kingdoms? the show is really confusing in some parts so i was wondering if there was a website that summarized each episode or a detailed explanation of the overall story? thanks
http://12ktp.inspirelight.net/
No summaries but the "anime notes" section will greatly help anyone watching this serie. ^^
I never knew this, but interestingly, it seems that the composer of the excellent music in Juuni Kokki, Kunihiko Ryo, is actually ethnically Korean - his Korean name is Yang Bang-Ean, corresponding to Ryou Kunihiko...
He was born into a family of doctors and he was forced to go to medical school and was a plastic surgeon for one year before he finally decided to quit that and start his career in the line of music, which caused his father to disown him.
I never knew this, but interestingly, it seems that the composer of the excellent music in Juuni Kokki, Kunihiko Ryo, is actually ethnically Korean - his Korean name is Yang Bang-Ean, corresponding to Ryou Kunihiko...
That's interesting. I've heard that the compser chose to use classical Korean instruments for some pieces (not really sure if this is true...) but I never knew that he himself is ethnically Korean.
Now that's an interesting mix. Japanese animation, Chinese-fantasy setting and a Korean composer. :)
Shouryuu
2004-11-15, 15:24
I'm stuck after the third DVD...I don't have any place near me that sells it and my Blockbuster refuses to get additional volumes(they do this a lot...Saiyuki, Haibane Renmei, Hellsing, DNA², Vandread....they just don't want me to finish a series I guess). From what I have seen though, as you can probably tell from my name and avatar, I find it quite enjoyable. It's easily the most engaging fantasy anime I've ever set eyes upon.
NoSanninWa
2004-11-15, 18:15
I'm stuck after the third DVD...I don't have any place near me that sells it and my Blockbuster refuses to get additional volumes(they do this a lot...Saiyuki, Haibane Renmei, Hellsing, DNA², Vandread....they just don't want me to finish a series I guess). From what I have seen though, as you can probably tell from my name and avatar, I find it quite enjoyable. It's easily the most engaging fantasy anime I've ever set eyes upon.
I'd suggest that you read The "Where do I buy..." Thread or have a look at Anime-Planet's Vendor list (http://www.anime-planet.com/vendors/).
Shouryuu
2004-11-15, 18:50
Thank you, that's very kind of you(entirely serious and honest)....but my greatest problem resides in my status as collegiate student and the subsequent lack of funds that seem to shadow said status. I've mentioned to Blockbuster's management about the additional volumes...but anime doesn't have a big following in my area so it's typically put on the back burner.
Edit: I should really stop posting on such lack of sleep...I don't make much sense.
firstian
2004-11-15, 20:19
Perhaps you may like to take advantage of the 20% sale going on right now at deepdiscountdvd? I posted the link in the where to buy thread. I just order 3 12K dvd, and after the discount, it's $14.39, free shipping included with no minimum.
Go work at McDonald for a couple of weeks, and boom, you entire 12K collection :joke:
Thank you, that's very kind of you(entirely serious and honest)....but my greatest problem resides in my status as collegiate student and the subsequent lack of funds that seem to shadow said status. I've mentioned to Blockbuster's management about the additional volumes...but anime doesn't have a big following in my area so it's typically put on the back burner.
Edit: I should really stop posting on such lack of sleep...I don't make much sense.
hey~~ i just got time finish up the series, and i loves it. the story in the series doesnt really answer all my questions so i am wondering if there is any place where i can buy the novel or any site to read the novel from~~~ (in english ^_^)
i'll be very greatful if anyone can help me out ^_^ thax~~~
I recently rewatched Junni Kokki for the 2nd time-it's much more enjoyable in english than japanese.
Souten no Seigyoku
2006-04-25, 10:15
I finished watching the entire thing just now. Its definately unfinished. The Taiki side story needs finishing. Although we can pretty much guess whats going on. I didnt realize the Tai king was missing along with the Taiki until I went back to the Taiki episodes. I thought I had missed an episode :(
The "accidents" are probably either his caretaker (the leopard/lizard one) or the monsterous shirei he has. Its obvious since Yukka was spared when she mentioned being an acquaintance of the queen of kei. So the shirei/caretaker knows enough of the 12 kingdom political landscape to know it could cause political problems if it killed a friend/official of another country. Since he lost his memories, its probably acting on its own. Although I find it odd that it knows enough of japan to understand that a car can kill, etc etc.
As for how the taiki would get back, I assume Yukka would play a big part and finally have her story like she wanted.
The kings whereabouts are the only thing we have no inkling about. Unless they do something horribly twisted and make his teacher the king. The teacher wasnt harrassing him or anything like the other people that got killed. He was trying to be helpful and it seemed he genuinely cared for the kid. Thats all I can think about.
Who knows. Sometimes they cancel a series due to lack of ratings. Its been 3 years though so I doubt theyll make more episodes. We'd be lucky if they do an OVA.
the accidents are caused by his caretaker. As they explained about the caretaker they also said how she would protect the newborn. So it obvious it can only be her since only she would go that far just to keep her "kid" from harm.
There is no continuation for the anime.
And I'll have to tell you that the anime is not faithful to the book. Sugimoto isn't supposed to be the one talking with Takasato and the like. It was originally supposed to be a teacher. Read Masho no Kou (Demon Child).
The book is better. I recommend it. It can show a big and important part of the story... and clear up some questions, but also make new ones arise. Honestly though, the books aren't really finished either.
And yes, all the harm that falls upon those that hurt Takasato (a.k.a. Taiki) is because of Sanshi, who doesn't really have a clear idea of right and wrong, thus causing a lot of harm and deaths (in the book).
SmartChick
2006-05-02, 20:04
There is no continuation for the anime.
And I'll have to tell you that the anime is not faithful to the book. Sugimoto isn't supposed to be the one talking with Takasato and the like. It was originally supposed to be a teacher. Read Masho no Kou (Demon Child).
The book is better. I recommend it. It can show a big and important part of the story... and clear up some questions, but also make new ones arise. Honestly though, the books aren't really finished either.
And yes, all the harm that falls upon those that hurt Takasato (a.k.a. Taiki) is because of Sanshi, who doesn't really have a clear idea of right and wrong, thus causing a lot of harm and deaths (in the book).
I think most of us who are fans would luv to read the books however no one has translated them so we hope the anime would continue instead. Maybe someday a company might have the guts to license them. There have been many rumors that Del Rey was thinking about it but who knows if that will happen. ::goes in search of sites with trasnlations::
Well, if you've seen the anime, I think it would be fine to just go on with Tasogare no Kishi, Akatsuki no Sora; Mashou no Ko and and read the short stories (Kasyo no Yume). There are translations... but all of them aren't really finished.
Want some links? I only know of a few though.
Anyway. The story is also still not finished. Dunno what's gotten into Ono Fuyumi.
BBOvenGuy
2006-05-11, 21:37
Tokyopop has announced that it will release the first Twelve Kingdoms novel in March 2007. Read it here - not much in the way of detail, and way at the bottom of the article, but hey, it's better than nothing:
http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1972050
karumofin
2006-05-12, 03:24
well i did rewatch the series recently and after that researched a little on how it goes on...
for once, there seem to be several little stories from various countries left to be told. one is especially interesting, as it seems to show how that guy form the last arc, thats riding the youma, came to be the god of the sea, i think. it also features that child-empress, which to me is one of the coolest characters of the series ;P
the taiki thing has two more stories so far: one happens shortly after they returned to their country, in other words before that desastrous thing happened and the other story is about how they get taiki back.
spoilers
it ends with taiki departing for tai to find out what happened to his king. its an interesting scenario, not only is it really hard to get him back to begin with, because hes in a horrible condition, he must go to tai all alone, because other kings arent allowed to send military into a different country. what happens after that is a story that has yet to be told in books. it would be easy to include youko into the storylines though. in the first taiki story she could just sit and listen, because its all about taikis visit to the country of ren and the second story seems to feature youko anyhow, because kei is where one general goes to ask for help.
I think its simple, they just want to wait for the final story to be released in bookform, so when they get back to produce another batch of episodes they can finish the whole thing. in other words, its not the question why the anime stopped, its the question why the author stopped writing JK-books altogether in the middle of the storyline... he/she hasnt written anything JK-related for many years and it doesnt look like thats gonna change.
Oh how I love spoilers....
Really... the anime isn't much worth it... if you want the story in whole. Nevertheless, I enjoy watching it anyway. :D
It's annoying how there's a sudden stop when you're already at a climatic point.... Taiki's story interests me a lot.
And... I think I read somewhere on problems producing the animation.... Bah... I dunno anymore. But it certainly wasn't all about the stories put on hold.
karumofin
2006-05-12, 13:46
both of youkos school friends were additions to the anime. personally i think they were very well integrated into the storyline, so i think youd miss out f you only read the books ^^
SmartChick
2006-05-12, 15:03
Tokyopop has announced that it will release the first Twelve Kingdoms novel in March 2007. Read it here - not much in the way of detail, and way at the bottom of the article, but hey, it's better than nothing:
http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1972050
Omg Im so happy that someone finally decided to pic up the novels I cant wait until next year woohoo.
I'd appreciate it more if Fuyumi would continue making more books... go on with the story.... *Sigh*
<_<
JKR has a better pace than she....
Xellos-_^
2006-05-25, 11:55
I'd appreciate it more if Fuyumi would continue making more books... go on with the story.... *Sigh*
<_<
JKR has a better pace than she....
I heard she had some health problems so thats whay she stop writing.
Anyone has any recent news on the Author health or progress of the novels?
Oh crap... health problems again?
>__<
There's Togashi and his health problems... and Fuyumi also has too?
Sheesh... I don't support a lot of works... but of all those that I do support... it's just got to be my faves. <_<
Dernhelm
2006-05-28, 02:52
man, what an abrupt end ahaha.
but the fact that it was supposed to be a 68-episode anime eases the depression. plus wiki's article on it helped a lot too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Kingdoms#Novels
* Mashō no Ko (魔性の子) "The Demonic Child" (Taiki's story in modern Japan.)
* Tsuki no Kage, Kage no Umi (月の影 影の海) "Shadow of the Moon, The Sea of Shadow" (Youko becomes Empress of Kei.)
* Kaze no Umi, Meikyū no Kishi (風の海 迷宮の岸) - "Sea of the Wind, Shore of the Labyrinth" (Taiki chooses the Emperor of Tai.)
* Higashi no Watatsumi, Nishi no Sōkai (東の海神 西の滄海) - "Sea God in the East, Vast Sea in the West" (The Emperor of En suppresses a rebellion.)
* Kaze no Banri, Reimei no Sora (風の万里 黎明の空) - "A Thousand Miles of Wind, The Sky at Dawn" (Youko, Suzu and Syoukei free Wa Province in Kei.)
* Tonan no Tsubasa (図南の翼) - "The Aspired Wings" (Syusyou becomes Empress of Kyou.)
* Tasogare no Kishi, Akatsuki no Sora (黄昏の岸 暁の天) - "The Shore at Twilight, The Sky at Daybreak" (Risai meets Youko to request help in summoning Taiki.) <-- ah, interesting!
* Kasho no Yume (華胥の幽夢) - "The Dream of Prosperity" (Various short stories, set in Tai, Hou, Kei, Sai and Sou.)
o Kasho (華胥)
o Toei (冬栄)
o Shokan (書簡)
o Kizan (帰山)
o Jogetsu (乗月)
like everyone else, i'm particularly interested with Taiki's story. notice how the voice actor/seiyuu for Taiki is the same as FMA's Alphonse Elric? i think i like her portrayal of Taiki better than she did Al, she made Taiki a lot more endearing.
yet i'm still also very interested to know about the other kingdoms which weren't introduced yet. it'd be nice to see the Kirins which were already introduced again, specially Sai's, Ren's and i don't think Kyou's queen was really that bad plus she had a funny Kirin hehe. argh, everything! this is all Rokuta's fault when he introduced everyone to us lol. the way the royal family of Sou posed seemed like there was something up with that kingdom too.
there's also a signature campaign going on in a japanese site to finish the series, i wonder if it's authentic. guess it won't bother to leave a request to finish the series. ;)
http://www3.rocketbbs.com/401/12kirin.html
i won't give up the wait on a continuation of the series. i didn't believe Beck: MCS would ever get licensed but it just got picked by FUNimation this morning. ^_^
stretch87
2006-06-26, 04:59
this show is awsome. prior to Juuni Kokki i was disappointed by several series in a row. i was actually starting to get discouraged, thinking i was losing interest in anime maybe, but then this show came along and saved my faith hehehe.
animation is good, voice acting is good, story is actually interesting, characters are believable...all around good
Ok, I dunno if it's just me but, I've watched the first 10 episodes of Juuni Kokki, and it really hasnt grabbed my interest yet. Do you guys think i will start liking it more if i kept watching? ive gotten to the part just after she finds out shes the queen
It's going to depend on what you like. Twelve Kingdoms is probably one of the best anime ever made, but that doesn't mean that everyone will like it. The show's best aspects are its rich setting, and the ideas and philosophies it explores. If you don't like that sort of thing then I don't know if you'll like the rest of the show.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-09-11, 10:31
Ok, I dunno if it's just me but, I've watched the first 10 episodes of Juuni Kokki, and it really hasnt grabbed my interest yet. Do you guys think i will start liking it more if i kept watching? ive gotten to the part just after she finds out shes the queen
Keep watching. You just barely gone past the prelude.:p
Juuni Kokki took some time to settle into, but when I did there was no turning back. But what 4Tran says is also true. Whether you'll like the series or not will depend on your preferences.
Xellos-_^
2006-09-11, 19:30
By Ep10 if he doesn't like the series by now I don't think he ever will. There is no point in forcing yourself to watch something that is obviously not your type.
Aquillion
2006-09-12, 21:57
Yeah... if someone dismissed it as generic fantasy after the first episode I'd advise them to watch more, but if you've seen ten episodes of it and still don't like it it probably isn't for you. There are other plotlines, so if it's just the characters that bore you then I suppose you could stick it out for a few more episodes, but when you get down to it even the best shows can't appeal to everyone.
I wouldn't be so quick discourage someone from continuing on with Twelve Kingdoms. It's different enough from just about every other anime that it may take quite some time to hook someone. Of course, by the same token, it's also different enough that it can also throw someone off. I'd say that the end of the first arc is probably the best barometer for how well Twelve Kingdoms will be received.
On a semi-related note, I was watching more of it recently, and I'm sort of surprised by how much Twelve Kingdoms' messages runs counter to that of most anime. Usually, the most important themes are the importance of friendships, the stength that willpower and determination can provide, the value of romance and love, and the importance of trying to do the right thing.
In Twelve Kingdoms, friendships are still important, but the other points are either categorically rejected, or ignored altogether. There are no real romantic relationships. Willpower and determination count for nothing without actions to complement them. And merely trying to do the right thing can still lead to ruin. Twelve Kingdoms' best spokesman is Rakushun when he said that appealing to outside agencies for help is often futile; a lot more can be acomplished if one is willing to put some hard work into it. The same applied to Youko: Keiki declared her the Queen of Kei in the very first episode. It still doesn't mean very much until she finally decided to act on it.
ImClueless
2006-09-13, 11:19
Its my opinion that the beginning of Twelve Kingdoms is the weakest part of the series. That and the ending, but the ending is incomplete so it has an excuse. I know the beginning is important since it establishes the characters and the setting and we probably wouldn't enjoy the show nearly as much later if it wasn't there. However, I find Youko so annoying in the beginning. Shes emo all the time and keeps on reminding me of certain teenaged male mecha pilots prevalent in other series who are in denial regarding their situations and cry about their predicaments. Ok granted, thats where we then get Youko's great character development, but still its hard to get into a series where the protagonist is out to annoy you when the show first begins.
I wouldn't be so quick discourage someone from continuing on with Twelve Kingdoms. It's different enough from just about every other anime that it may take quite some time to hook someone. Of course, by the same token, it's also different enough that it can also throw someone off. I'd say that the end of the first arc is probably the best barometer for how well Twelve Kingdoms will be received.
On a semi-related note, I was watching more of it recently, and I'm sort of surprised by how much Twelve Kingdoms' messages runs counter to that of most anime. Usually, the most important themes are the importance of friendships, the stength that willpower and determination can provide, the value of romance and love, and the importance of trying to do the right thing.
In Twelve Kingdoms, friendships are still important, but the other points are either categorically rejected, or ignored altogether. There are no real romantic relationships. Willpower and determination count for nothing without actions to complement them. And merely trying to do the right thing can still lead to ruin. Twelve Kingdoms' best spokesman is Rakushun when he said that appealing to outside agencies for help is often futile; a lot more can be acomplished if one is willing to put some hard work into it. The same applied to Youko: Keiki declared her the Queen of Kei in the very first episode. It still doesn't mean very much until she finally decided to act on it.
I think the real barometers are eps. 6&7; that's where it picked up for me. I bought the first volume and didn't think much of it. But once I picked up v2, I was immediately hooked- partly because this is where the main character's redemption begins and the story starts to hit a regular pace. If the person in question hasn't been engaged by the change being brought about in Youko, then I can't see how said person would be interested in the rest of the series. In fact, I think one of the central themes of most of the remaining arcs is redemption- and so if the first taste hasn't been appreciated then the rest of the dish should be left alone.
Srin Tuar
2006-09-20, 10:25
About Asano:
Im up to episode ~28 and I have to say im pretty disappointed with the whole Asano side story.
He was a central character in the story for several episodes in a row. Youko had a mini-crush on him at one point. He seemed to be one of the few people who was actually nice to her, rather than one of those who would always whisper behind her back.
Sugimoto freaked out but at least we knew what she was up to, what she was thikning, and what kind of character she was. She wanted to be the hero in her fictional world, and had a hard time coming to grips with the reality of the situation.
Asano seemed to have potential. We didnt really understand him fully, but he could have gone either way, either become bad/insane like most other kaikyaku, or perhaps be one of the few well seated individuals. Would he get over Yuuka after she dumped him? What would he do to survive, would he attack people?
He dissapeared right before we could find out anything much.
20 or so episodes pass, where we dont find out anything more, except for a rumor that he's alive and some shots of him falling from the cliff thats about it. Youko has all but abondoned him. She keeps convincing herself she doesnt have time to go look for him, but thats obviously not true, since she has free time to go off and live in En to get away from court and basically dock her responsibilities. She could ask keiki to send a siprit to scout around at the very least. Basically she doesn care, which is fine, I just don't like the way she pretends to herself that she does.
Now finally we get to see whats going on, and the answer is ... nothing. He's simply lost his gourd, and has become another forgettable side character who was clearly never intended to be important. I would have appreciated not being left on a cliffhanger about the guy for 20 episodes just to find out that there was nothing interesting going on with him, and he might as well have simply drowned in the river.
If he had tried to make his way in this world, or even become a worthwhile villain, that might have been interesting. But he's just a crazed otaku who thinks he's fallen into a video game, and clutches a gun all the time.... the kind of character who gets five seconds of airtime before getting flayed by someone more interesting in most shows.
I dont know whats going to happen next, but it clearly cannot be good. I guess someone is going to have to stab him, or else he'll just shoot himself with the gun he found. みじめな
*edit: the lack of romance is killing me. Perhaps something about people being born from trees takes the sex out of everyone. Whatever it is, its starting to make this whole show seem very tedious. I guess the real reason I was dying to see asano's comeback was the romantic possibilities, but I see those have been crushed. Hrm, I dont know if I can keep watching them now...
ImClueless
2006-09-20, 10:36
About Asano:
Im up to episode ~28 and I have to say im pretty disappointed with the whole Asano side story.
He was a central character in the story for several episodes in a row. Youko had a mini-crush on him at one point. He seemed to be one of the few people who was actually nice to her, rather than one of those who would always whisper behind her back.
Sugimoto freaked out but at least we knew what she was up to, what she was thikning, and what kind of character she was. She wanted to be the hero in her fictional world, and had a hard time coming to grips with the reality of the situation.
Asano seemed to have potential. We didnt really understand him fully, but he could have gone either way, either become bad/insane like most other kaikyaku, or perhaps be one of the few well seated individuals. Would he get over Yuuka after she dumped him? What would he do to survive, would he attack people?
He dissapeared right before we could find out anything much.
20 or so episodes pass, where we dont find out anything more, except for a rumor that he's alive and some shots of him falling from the cliff thats about it. Youko has all but abondoned him. She keeps convincing herself she doesnt have time to go look for him, but thats obviously not true, since she has free time to go off and live in En to get away from court and basically dock her responsibilities. She could ask keiki to send a siprit to scout around at the very least. Basically she doesn care, which is fine, I just don't like the way she pretends to herself that she does.
Now finally we get to see whats going on, and the answer is ... nothing. He's simply lost his gourd, and has become another forgettable side character who was clearly never intended to be important. I would have appreciated not being left on a cliffhanger about the guy for 20 episodes just to find out that there was nothing interesting going on with him, and he might as well have simply drowned in the river.
If he had tried to make his way in this world, or even become a worthwhile villain, that might have been interesting. But he's just a crazed otaku who thinks he's fallen into a video game, and clutches a gun all the time.... the kind of character who gets five seconds of airtime before getting flayed by someone more interesting in most shows.
I dont know whats going to happen next, but it clearly cannot be good. I guess someone is going to have to stab him, or else he'll just shoot himself with the gun he found. みじめな
Well actually the show still has some character development left in it for Asano. Yes, he got neglected quite a bit since the second half of the first arc and the entire Taiki arc. However, the show will wrap up his character nicely I think. He's at the stage right now where, like Youko at the begining of the show, is damn annoying. Anyway Ill stop before I get tempted to spoil people.
Srin Tuar
2006-09-20, 23:04
Well actually the show still has some character development left in it for Asano. Yes, he got neglected quite a bit since the second half of the first arc and the entire Taiki arc. However, the show will wrap up his character nicely I think. He's at the stage right now where, like Youko at the begining of the show, is damn annoying. Anyway Ill stop before I get tempted to spoil people.
Ah, thanks for the response
Hehe, so he made it to the end of ep 39, had about 30 seconds worth of time not being a total idiot, then died like a dog. Lol, I even had hope he might turn himself around for a second, oh well. Thats a character whos life truely had no meaning. In the last second he set out on a semi-heroic mission that was truely purposeless, got 99% of the way to his destination, then managed to get fatally stabbed about 30 seconds before an entire army of friends showed up. Dying with a smile on one's face should be reserved for those who accomplished something.:rolleyes: I feel cheated for even being told his meaningless story. It's like being told the moderately uninteresting life story of a random security guard who gets shot and dies in the first two seconds of a robbery, completely oblivious. Let the extra's be extras :(
I guess there is still sugimoto. She's a crazy biatch, but I am curious what kind of effect she will have on taiki. So far at least, it seems like she wont be a completely pointless character.
ImClueless
2006-09-20, 23:21
LOL through to ep39 already. Hurray for anime marathons!
Xellos-_^
2006-09-20, 23:36
About Asano:
Im up to episode ~28 and I have to say im pretty disappointed with the whole Asano side story.
He was a central character in the story for several episodes in a row. Youko had a mini-crush on him at one point. He seemed to be one of the few people who was actually nice to her, rather than one of those who would always whisper behind her back.
Sugimoto freaked out but at least we knew what she was up to, what she was thikning, and what kind of character she was. She wanted to be the hero in her fictional world, and had a hard time coming to grips with the reality of the situation.
Asano seemed to have potential. We didnt really understand him fully, but he could have gone either way, either become bad/insane like most other kaikyaku, or perhaps be one of the few well seated individuals. Would he get over Yuuka after she dumped him? What would he do to survive, would he attack people?
He dissapeared right before we could find out anything much.
20 or so episodes pass, where we dont find out anything more, except for a rumor that he's alive and some shots of him falling from the cliff thats about it. Youko has all but abondoned him. She keeps convincing herself she doesnt have time to go look for him, but thats obviously not true, since she has free time to go off and live in En to get away from court and basically dock her responsibilities. She could ask keiki to send a siprit to scout around at the very least. Basically she doesn care, which is fine, I just don't like the way she pretends to herself that she does.
Now finally we get to see whats going on, and the answer is ... nothing. He's simply lost his gourd, and has become another forgettable side character who was clearly never intended to be important. I would have appreciated not being left on a cliffhanger about the guy for 20 episodes just to find out that there was nothing interesting going on with him, and he might as well have simply drowned in the river.
If he had tried to make his way in this world, or even become a worthwhile villain, that might have been interesting. But he's just a crazed otaku who thinks he's fallen into a video game, and clutches a gun all the time.... the kind of character who gets five seconds of airtime before getting flayed by someone more interesting in most shows.
I dont know whats going to happen next, but it clearly cannot be good. I guess someone is going to have to stab him, or else he'll just shoot himself with the gun he found. みじめな
*edit: the lack of romance is killing me. Perhaps something about people being born from trees takes the sex out of everyone. Whatever it is, its starting to make this whole show seem very tedious. I guess the real reason I was dying to see asano's comeback was the romantic possibilities, but I see those have been crushed. Hrm, I dont know if I can keep watching them now...
I never saw the potiential you had in Asano. I thought he was dead until he show up again.
About the lack of romance. 12k is a Political Drama show not a romance drama show. It is about Honor, Duty and Destiny. Not love and marriage.
if you were looking for romance Fushigi Yuugi and Saiunkoku Monogatari is more of what you are looking for.
Srin Tuar
2006-09-21, 00:16
I never saw the potiential you had in Asano. I thought he was dead until he show up again.
Heh, I guess im not used to having unimportant minor side characters have their story stretched out over 39 episodes. He was just a random fool with no real purpose or moral, pulled into a difficult situation that he couldnt deal with. Yet the story hinted and teased that there might be something interesting there, but there simply wasnt.
About the lack of romance. 12k is a Political Drama show not a romance drama show. It is about Honor, Duty and Destiny. Not love and marriage.
if you were looking for romance Fushigi Yuugi and Saiunkoku Monogatari is more of what you are looking for.
Honor, Duty and Destiny are indeed important. But in this sexless universe, everything seems a bit dry. When they talk about the atracities commited by the bad guys, they mention killing women and children. I dont see how they are any different that men or old people in this show.
When they react to beatiful women, what are they thinking of? And why do the women even have hips and breasts, if they are never going to have children.
I like the setting and the style of the show, but its hard to get pulled into the intrigue and politics when the human condition is not really at stake.
I gave Saiunkoku a shot as well, but its just a dating game centered around a ditz.
*Edit: re-reading my own post it might sound like Im only complaining. Hehe, but there's no way a sane person can marathon 39 episodes of a show he doesnt like right?.... right ?
Xellos-_^
2006-09-21, 00:55
Heh, I guess im not used to having unimportant minor side characters have their story stretched out over 39 episodes. He was just a random fool with no real purpose or moral, pulled into a difficult situation that he couldnt deal with. Yet the story hinted and teased that there might be something interesting there, but there simply wasnt.
Honor, Duty and Destiny are indeed important. But in this sexless universe, everything seems a bit dry. When they talk about the atracities commited by the bad guys, they mention killing women and children. I dont see how they are any different that men or old people in this show.
When they react to beatiful women, what are they thinking of? And why do the women even have hips and breasts, if they are never going to have children.
I like the setting and the style of the show, but its hard to get pulled into the intrigue and politics when the human condition is not really at stake.
I gave Saiunkoku a shot as well, but its just a dating game centered around a ditz.
*Edit: re-reading my own post it might sound like Im only complaining. Hehe, but there's no way a sane person can marathon 39 episodes of a show he doesnt like right?.... right ?
Not exactly marathoning. but i once went through the entire fushigi yuugi series inside a week. By the end i was scream give me back my week :rolleyes:
A
And i wouldn't call Shurrei a ditz. if Shurrei is a ditz Miaka would be brain dead.
Not exactly marathoning. but i once went through the entire fushigi yuugi series inside a week. By the end i was scream give me back my week :rolleyes:
A
And i wouldn't call Shurrei a ditz. if Shurrei is a ditz Miaka would be brain dead.
off topic but when i see your sig, i cant help but stare at it -_-. Can't even read what other people are typing. lol
Xellos-_^
2006-09-21, 01:11
off topic but when i see your sig, i cant help but stare at it -_-. Can't even read what other people are typing. lol
Thats the whole point of the sig :D :heh: :p
Remeber to vote fro Shizuru in the saimoe contest on the 22nd.
NoSanninWa
2006-09-21, 02:13
Honor, Duty and Destiny are indeed important. But in this sexless universe, everything seems a bit dry. When they talk about the atracities commited by the bad guys, they mention killing women and children. I dont see how they are any different that men or old people in this show.
Indeed. It does seem like the absence of sexual reproduction removes about 50% of all human motivations. It's something I just have to suspend disbelief about to accept the show. Without such drives, it seems that the resulting people would be some sort of alien who are both emotionally and sociologically very different from ourselves. Yet they are not aliens. I just have to accept that they are inexplicably the same as us, all the way down to considering it an atrocity to kill women.
It really makes me wonder why the author decided on some bizarre method of sexless reproduction if she wasn't going to try to factor that into the mentality of her characters. Surely she could have found a better way for Yoko to be on our world?
Honor, Duty and Destiny are indeed important. But in this sexless universe, everything seems a bit dry. When they talk about the atracities commited by the bad guys, they mention killing women and children. I dont see how they are any different that men or old people in this show.
When they react to beatiful women, what are they thinking of? And why do the women even have hips and breasts, if they are never going to have children.
I like the setting and the style of the show, but its hard to get pulled into the intrigue and politics when the human condition is not really at stake.
I'm not sure, but the show really doesn't say that sex doesn't exist. In fact, the King of En frequents a brothel as part of his disguise as a travelling swordsman. Prior to becoming Queen, Youko and Sugimoto were almost sold to a brothel house as well.
In the world of Juuni Kokki, women don't reproduce and it's also stressed that married couples have to pray for children. So in other words, sex does exist in their world, but it doesn't exist as a primary means for procreation.
NoSanninWa
2006-09-21, 02:43
Yup. That's why I said only 50%
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-09-21, 02:55
Indeed. It does seem like the absence of sexual reproduction removes about 50% of all human motivations. It's something I just have to suspend disbelief about to accept the show. Without such drives, it seems that the resulting people would be some sort of alien who are both emotionally and sociologically very different from ourselves. Yet they are not aliens. I just have to accept that they are inexplicably the same as us, all the way down to considering it an atrocity to kill women.
It really makes me wonder why the author decided on some bizarre method of sexless reproduction if she wasn't going to try to factor that into the mentality of her characters. Surely she could have found a better way for Yoko to be on our world?
Well, just because women no longer carry children in their bellies doesn't mean traditional values were removed all together. It was shown that sexual activity indeed takes place still, though purely for entertainment purposes. And you still can't have children unless you are in a married relationship. This is interesting, because whether or not someone can have children is not dictated by priests or law-makers, but the actual Divine Will Itself.
(I guess you can still have kids if you are single or in a same-sex marriage, but it would depend on what the Gods feel like. Pray harder, I guess.)
And it was obvious, from the fact that Yoko needing to disguise herself as a man to avoid unwanted questions, that women are not normally lone travelers.
One thing one has to realise, is how the entire 12 Kingdoms came to be. Here is my theory: (theories are theories, feel free to disagree)
The Deity/deities overseeing the 12 Kingdoms universe is actually the same one as the one that created our own. Somewhere along the line, our universe was created. The big bang, the hydrogen and helium atoms, stars, solar systems, planets, Earth, Evolution, and so on. The deity was present during all this time, but didn't do anything but wanting the world grow and human civilizations flourish.
The Deity liked the universe, but want to tinker with it. But its too messy to tinker with the entire universe. So It picked the most advanced civilization at that specific time, that of the Chinese civilization, and created a replica in a parallel world.
(This explains why the world seemed frozen in time; it was the style God picked, so it stayed that way.)
This new world isn't actually a new China; rather, it's like a small garden on a balcony compared to a rain-forest, or a fish-tank compared to the Mediterranean sea. Unlike a rain-forest or an ocean, the 12 Kingdoms needed constant maintenance; the world's weather isn't caused by Earth's spin or forest cover or El-Nina, but directly controlled by the Deity. There is no evolution, due to the requirement of controlling the population size of all life; solved via the pod-trees that decide when and where new life will originate. There is no erosion, because land masses don't change.
Ironically, this world, though evidence of God's work is all around them, has no faith; In fact, there isn't even an afterlife. If you work hard, you may be granted immortality. If you abuse your immortality, you will lose it.
How is this relevant to gender roles?
Well, one thing that wasn't animated from the novels, was Yoko asking Rakushun if chickens hatch from eggs.
To which he replied:
"Don't be silly. Who would dare to eat eggs if that was the case!"
So why is there eggs from chickens? Simple, because the culture transplanted from our Earth had eaten chicken eggs. Just as a garden or fish-tank might imitate a natural environment, and yet be fake, so would the 12 Kingdoms. This is God's playground.
Women still act like, and get treated like, women. Some things stay the same, as fake as it looked, simply because it didn't evolve from scratch. 12 Kingdoms never had a Stone-age; it just popped into existence with all the laws written in.
Sometimes, I can't help but feel that there's something feminist or political going on in the lack of sexual reproduction. I'm reminded of the thought, "The source of woman's oppression and her strength is her womb." In Juuni Kokki, gender roles are far more liberating in certain areas, where mothers aren't bound by the duty to reproduce or engendered to be "daughters before becoming wives and thus, mothers." It's like saying that biological difference between man and woman doesn't apply in this world—and yet at the same time, with the world of Juuni Kokki being somewhat Confucian in nature, tradition and order still reign. It's an interesting thought at the very least.
Of course, the world is still harsh in Juuni Kokki, and I'm pretty sure that when cities are ravaged, murder, rape and pillaging come hand in hand. The story just doesn't seem to be bothered to remind us in detail as it focuses on other areas. This is so unlike Fushigi Yuugi for instance, where it uses the idea of rape (whether it's for real or not) as an attempt for drama.
I think that by removing the act of reproduction through sex, the author was about to establish a world where there was were more equality between men and women. Women were able to join the army and become Empresses. Also it made the act of reproduction an act where the two who wanted to have a child had to be equals. Whereas in our world women have more of a burden then men.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-09-21, 07:58
I think that by removing the act of reproduction through sex, the author was about to establish a world where there was were more equality between men and women. Women were able to join the army and become Empresses. Also it made the act of reproduction an act where the two who wanted to have a child had to be equals. Whereas in our world women have more of a burden then men.
But as the novel pointed out, there are side effects.
Women are still forced into prostitution as slaves, and I don't see any female soldiers last time I checked. Sure, there are female freedom fighters, but no proper enlisted women soldiers.
And Empresses are fully capable of being looked down on; Yoko's country had two failed Empresses in a roll, and the fact that another woman had took the throne really took some time to get used to. Oh, and they don't have a word for "Empress", just "Oh", or "ruler" or "King" in Chinese. The title is genderless, because in this universe, the title is not inherited, but literally given by God. There is no "give the title to my eldest male child when I die" rubbish, so there was no point giving the title a gender.
Women could be equals to men in 12 Kingdoms, but it is obvious they are not treated as such. Unless the ruler made it his/her life's goal to change this, it isn't going to happen. And usually the ruler would be too busy keeping people fed and have roofs over their heads to worry about something as minor as equality.
There is also something else; as mentioned in the anime and novel, people have been abusing the marriage system to migrate from one country/county to another. No one worries about protecting the "sanctity" of marriage, because lets face it. If you do something that is truely wrong in 12 Kingdoms, you won't face the Spanish Inquisition; you will simply die. Divine retribution actually exists in their world, and as such people's views on morality is different from ours.
Let's say someone committed a crime, like robbing you at knife point on a road. That person might not be hit by lighting, but a set of chain reactions would happen; the local authorities would have to help you find justice because they would be observed by the governor. The governor would need to make sure the local authorities do their jobs because the person in the royal court overseeing the governors would be watching him. And that members of the royal court would be doing his job because the ruler would make sure it happens.
And if the Ruler doesn't make sure everything works? HE/SHE dies.
Cleverly, by only threatening those at the top with death, the Powers That Be would be able to let the puny humans do their own policing.
We have to realise that gender equality is NOT the pressing issue of most 12 Kingdoms citizens. Food, shelter, and warmth come first. An education, a steady non-back breaking job, and perhaps immortality comes later.
...That's the weird part. The fact that eternal life could be offered by your government, makes any other concession or tax cut seem petty.:heh:
Yes, it is quite interesting, isn't it? Despite that women are free from the burden of their wombs so to speak, what keeps and regulates social relations in Juuni Kokki instead is a divine will that orders their world. Everybody has their own place, regardless of gender and race, and with it comes certain responsibilities and expectations. Going against this natural (albeit established) order is tantamount to death or ruin.
The Kiryn and their rulers are, for example, the most extreme case. The Taiho has to live a pure life, yet remain absolutely loyal to his or her corresponding ruler, who then in turn has to rule with a just and fair hand. Only then can a kingdom become truly prosperous.
It is in this sense why Youko's first imperial proclamation (forgot what it's called) was perceived to be so radical in the eyes of her court in the first place—because it was to a certain extent so ideologically against the vertical order of their world.
Women are still forced into prostitution as slaves, and I don't see any female soldiers last time I checked. Sure, there are female freedom fighters, but no proper enlisted women soldiers.
There's only one I can recall. One of the generals of Tai is a woman. I forgot her name though.
No one worries about protecting the "sanctity" of marriage, because lets face it. If you do something that is truely wrong in 12 Kingdoms, you won't face the Spanish Inquisition; you will simply die.
Saves the trouble of killing unfaithful spouses, huh? :heh:
If you do something that is truely wrong in 12 Kingdoms, you won't face the Spanish Inquisition; you will simply die. Divine retribution actually exists in their world, and as such people's views on morality is different from ours.
Let's say someone committed a crime, like robbing you at knife point on a road. That person might not be hit by lighting, but a set of chain reactions would happen; the local authorities would have to help you find justice because they would be observed by the governor.
This doesn't seem fully accurate though. The anime does depicts instances where this comes out but my recollection of divine retribution lies in dealing with the kingdom and the kings only. They mentioned that when the kings did something wrong then the kingdoms suffer, as was the case with the kingdom where they had an uprising and left only the daughter alive who wandered to many different countries. I also seem to recall an earlier episode where the kirin was suffering because of something the ruler did which ended up reflecting on the ruler.
However there were corrupt people in the government which were not directly punished by a divine prescense. Instead the queen had to put a stop to it.
There also are armies for the kingdoms which indicate that there are problems with people who are going against the will of the ruler, whether it be another ruler or people in their own countries. So divine retribution isn't all that encompassing.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-09-22, 19:39
This doesn't seem fully accurate though. The anime does depicts instances where this comes out but my recollection of divine retribution lies in dealing with the kingdom and the kings only. They mentioned that when the kings did something wrong then the kingdoms suffer, as was the case with the kingdom where they had an uprising and left only the daughter alive who wandered to many different countries. I also seem to recall an earlier episode where the kirin was suffering because of something the ruler did which ended up reflecting on the ruler.
However there were corrupt people in the government which were not directly punished by a divine prescense. Instead the queen had to put a stop to it.
There also are armies for the kingdoms which indicate that there are problems with people who are going against the will of the ruler, whether it be another ruler or people in their own countries. So divine retribution isn't all that encompassing.
I thought I mentioned it already? The divine retribution only matters for major events, like killing of a king (which no one ever really do unless they have to). And anyway there is already enough ways of punishing people; don't let them have children, cause a drought, start a plague, increase monster activities, swarm of locusts... There is barely enough freedom as it is. Law and order is the King's job, and that's why the King's life is at stake.
Aquillion
2006-09-27, 02:34
Although it was never explicitly stated, the sense I got of the world was that (outside of a few specific rituals, like asking for children) the emperor was the only link between the heavens and most of their kingdom. The things people would have historically ascribed to religion and divine will in our world (weather, disease, demons in the wilderness, whatever) instead become the responsibility of the emperor; if there is plague or famine, it's a sign that the emperor is failing in some fashion, rather than a sign of divine disfavor with the country as a whole. Even the ability to grant immortality is delegated to the emperor.
Rakshun, I think, said that the fate of the people of a country is entirely in the Emperor's hands; there is nothing that an Emperor cannot do. Judgment, therefore, is also the responsibility of the Emperor... the only time the Heavens would get involved is if the Emperor themselves were to fail in this.
Likewise, although the sinful landowner that Yoko brings to justice in the third plot arc talks about divine retribution coming for him, he also makes it clear that divine retribution could only come for him through the emperor... If the Heavens want to punish someone, they will send an emperor capable of doing the job.
Wow. Simply wow. Finished the series today and was just amazed by how well done the story was. A excellent, fantasy-political drama with great character development. The Chinese idea, Mandate of Heaven, was put to interesting use.
Did anyone think that if they were made ruler that one would try to import their home country's system of government? For example, I live in the USA and thought I would bring the concept of branches of government. Was thinking how the preamble to the Constitution would have made a great first proclamation.
Oh, heated discussion. 12 Kingdoms is also one of my favorite anime. I usually watch light-hearted, romance, comedy, sports-comedy anime, and rarely do I take any interest in serious, especially political, anime. I have to say 12 Kingdoms totally captured me, making my other anime collections seem tasteless. Like everyone who saw 12 Kingdoms, the first couple of episodes really bored me, but I had nothing better to do so I stuck with it. Am I ever glad! The ending was disappointed because Taiki issue wasn't complete, but Yoko's story wrapped up nicely. I have more than +200 anime saved, but only 3 anime deserve my 5 stars rating: Grave of Fireflies, Atashinchi (only have 11 eps), and of course 12 Kingdoms.
About Asano:
Im up to episode ~28 and I have to say im pretty disappointed with the whole Asano side story.
He was a central character in the story for several episodes in a row. Youko had a mini-crush on him at one point. He seemed to be one of the few people who was actually nice to her, rather than one of those who would always whisper behind her back.
Sugimoto freaked out but at least we knew what she was up to, what she was thikning, and what kind of character she was. She wanted to be the hero in her fictional world, and had a hard time coming to grips with the reality of the situation.
Asano seemed to have potential. We didnt really understand him fully, but he could have gone either way, either become bad/insane like most other kaikyaku, or perhaps be one of the few well seated individuals. Would he get over Yuuka after she dumped him? What would he do to survive, would he attack people?
He dissapeared right before we could find out anything much.
20 or so episodes pass, where we dont find out anything more, except for a rumor that he's alive and some shots of him falling from the cliff thats about it. Youko has all but abondoned him. She keeps convincing herself she doesnt have time to go look for him, but thats obviously not true, since she has free time to go off and live in En to get away from court and basically dock her responsibilities. She could ask keiki to send a siprit to scout around at the very least. Basically she doesn care, which is fine, I just don't like the way she pretends to herself that she does.
Now finally we get to see whats going on, and the answer is ... nothing. He's simply lost his gourd, and has become another forgettable side character who was clearly never intended to be important. I would have appreciated not being left on a cliffhanger about the guy for 20 episodes just to find out that there was nothing interesting going on with him, and he might as well have simply drowned in the river.
If he had tried to make his way in this world, or even become a worthwhile villain, that might have been interesting. But he's just a crazed otaku who thinks he's fallen into a video game, and clutches a gun all the time.... the kind of character who gets five seconds of airtime before getting flayed by someone more interesting in most shows.
I dont know whats going to happen next, but it clearly cannot be good. I guess someone is going to have to stab him, or else he'll just shoot himself with the gun he found. みじめな
*edit: the lack of romance is killing me. Perhaps something about people being born from trees takes the sex out of everyone. Whatever it is, its starting to make this whole show seem very tedious. I guess the real reason I was dying to see asano's comeback was the romantic possibilities, but I see those have been crushed. Hrm, I dont know if I can keep watching them now...
I would have to disagree with you on the Asano issue.
Like you, in the beginning, I was hoping that Asano'd just forget Yuka and be with Yoko. I haven't read the novel, but I know that Asano and Yuka are extra characters added by the animation people; they were well-fit into the story nonetheless. Yuka is the type who loves fantasy, because of that, she's being used easily. Yoko is the type to please people, never stand up for herself, a coward, and always does things that are made or planned by others. Asano is the nice and loyal type in the world that he's familiar with, he's the type that if too much changes take place, he won't be able to handle it, just like most people. I'm surprised he didn't lose his mind much sooner. Being in a weird strange place with no knowledge whatsoever about the place, doesn't understand the language, witness monsters killing, and getting yourself killed almost daily, I'd say the fact that Asano is trying to find a role in this mess and getting nothing out of it is pretty normal. There are people in this life, even in their familiar environment, until the day they die, still have absolutely no idea what their living years meant. But Asano tried his best. I think if he just accepts the fact that this world is now his home, and he doesn't have to have a role to exist, he would have been happier.
And Yoko didn't abandon Asano. Her situation is already tough enough considering how much a coward she was in the beginning. Asano is not the only one needing help from Yoko, but the whole kingdom Kei. Though, she's a Queen, she has no real power and the palace is pretty much run by the officials. Noone trusts her, even Kei is iffy about Yoko at first about her ability to govern a kingdom due to previous Queen's experience. Yoko didn't run to En to dock her responsibilities, but to learn. Being a Queen to an unknown world, not knowing the tradition, how the government systems work, how the weather works, the life of citizens, and the youma issues, can anyone guarantee that it's going to be a smooth ride? Kei only have a limited number of Shirei serving him, and they are sent to protect Yoko. Even Kei said in some episode that his top priorty is to protect the queen. Though it seems heartless but that's how the system works because a kingdom without a ruler would fall into ruined. Asano is alive, but where? In what country? Do you know how long an aimless search would take? And each country has its own rules, there are limited of things she can do. A kingdom, even with a queen, still has youma roaming around. Corrupted officials are living happily while citizens are suffering and dying. Taxes are raised like crazy. So when does that no-power Queen have time? One Asano and the whole kingdom, who would you choose? I'd say Asano can wait until things settle down a little bit.
I'm glad that 12 Kingdoms doesn't have any romance in it. If it does, another mess would come up and the story would lose its meaning.
Also, I think there will never be an absolute equality among men and women. Even between the same gender, there hasn't been any equality. If there is, I think another issue would arise, "Why are we equal?"
Srin Tuar
2006-09-29, 03:41
I haven't read the novel, but I know that Asano and Yuka are extra characters added by the animation people;
AHA!
Well, I guess I have my explanation.
That really does explain it all, I have to say, If I had known that from the beginning it would have been less of an enigma to me.
Just like any character or plot added by the animation crew, they are doomed to have no lasting significance to the story and are ultimately a waste of time.
I always felt Asano was poorly worked into the story, and really was a tease of a character, and if what you say is true at least I can accept why that is the case.
OTOH, I find it hard to believe that sugimoto was an add on to the story. She was so central for many episodes, I just dont see how that could be. :confused:
Zappster
2006-09-29, 03:55
Oh, heated discussion. 12 Kingdoms is also one of my favorite anime. I usually watch light-hearted, romance, comedy, sports-comedy anime, and rarely do I take any interest in serious, especially political, anime. I have to say 12 Kingdoms totally captured me, making my other anime collections seem tasteless. Like everyone who saw 12 Kingdoms, the first couple of episodes really bored me, but I had nothing better to do so I stuck with it. Am I ever glad! The ending was disappointed because Taiki issue wasn't complete, but Yoko's story wrapped up nicely. I have more than +200 anime saved, but only 3 anime deserve my 5 stars rating: Grave of Fireflies, Atashinchi (only have 11 eps), and of course 12 Kingdoms.
I beg to differ. I liked the show from the start, at the very least I found the first couple of episodes quite interesting. I certainly wouldn't describe them as boring. Sure they're not the best the series has to offer but I just had to speak up at this rather sweeping generalization.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-09-29, 06:04
OTOH, I find it hard to believe that sugimoto was an add on to the story. She was so central for many episodes, I just dont see how that could be. :confused:
I believe Sugimoto did exist in the novel; she merely didn't follow Yoko to the 12 Kingdoms.
kari-no-sugata
2006-09-29, 08:59
I believe Sugimoto did exist in the novel; she merely didn't follow Yoko to the 12 Kingdoms.
Yup.
If I remember correctly, they went to an all-girls school.
Incidentally, most of the novels have been translated into english by fans. I don't think it's okay to give out links though...
Srin Tuar
2006-09-29, 09:39
Yup.
If I remember correctly, they went to an all-girls school.
Incidentally, most of the novels have been translated into english by fans. I don't think it's okay to give out links though...
Wow 0_0
So they animation team basically re-wrote the whole story.
I'm glad that 12 Kingdoms doesn't have any romance in it. If it does, another mess would come up and the story would lose its meaning.
Despite me squeeing and pointing a shaky finger at the episode in the first arc (I think?) when Rakushun first changed into his human form (I think it was)... I couldn't agree with you more, ultimately. I think the show would have become trivialised.. and it's probably this aspect that made me go beyond liking the show to respecting it as well.
They could have gone down such a horrid way but despite the rewrites it was generally a very engaging and thought-provoking anime. It's especially effective to someone my age, I guess (though I watched this more than a year ago). At first I was so pissed off with Yoko thinking this was going to be another Fushigi Yuugi or something ilke that but sticking through was one of the best decisions of my life... After I looked back I realised that that sort of thing was necessary and it would have been weird without her being emotional and all (just that it was a tad annoying still).
I thought the inclusion of Sugimoto was quite brilliant, though. I'm not familiar with the novels but while it may have lent a somewhat cliche "rival" aspect that's always present in stories about girls going to other dimensions, I thought it was convincing and well-done and puts most others to shame. Perhaps it was the fact that she liked reading fantasy novels and got jealous of Yoko that was very interesting, and very suitable.
I personally think they hit it on the nail there because I can very easily imagine that sort of jealousy. For one thing, I have a friend who likes reading fantasy novels and keeps wishing so badly that she could enter such a world, and likes to imagine how if she was put in the situation of people like Yoko, she wouldn't waste time crying or whatever but adapt very quickly and become successful. And frankly speaking, I have the same complex too (anime hasn't helped!). Maybe I don't wish to escape from reality that badly, but if one of my friends got into this alternate universe thing and I didn't, I would readily admit to being jealous :heh: And if I was in Sugimoto's situation I think I would have gotten ticked off as well. So I really empathised very much with her character and that lent more depth to the show - because they showed Yoko's struggle in a convincing enoguh way that made me have to genuinely rethink my opinion on everything.
But I guess I was a bit sad that they didn't conclude Taiki's arc in the anime. And the producers want to make it as Yoko-centered as possible so they won't unless they can find material so that they can somehow rewrite Yoko in... *sigh* Guess the ratings were down for the Taiki arc or something.
I believe Sugimoto did exist in the novel; she merely didn't follow Yoko to the 12 Kingdoms.
I read somewhere a long time ago that Yuka didn't take part in the 12 Kingdoms in the novel, so I thought she didn't exist. My mistake. :p
Srin Tuar
2006-09-29, 13:13
Despite me squeeing and pointing a shaky finger at the episode in the first arc (I think?) when Rakushun first changed into his human form (I think it was)... I couldn't agree with you more, ultimately. I think the show would have become trivialised.. and it's probably this aspect that made me go beyond liking the show to respecting it as well.
Interesting- the addition of romance would have further enhanced the story for me, especially if it was done well. Real life always includes it, so any story that totally neglects that angle seems artificial to me, no matter how good it is.
As much as I dislike anime that diverge from the original author's intentions, I must admit the changes the authors did for Sugimoto worked well, she was a meaningful part of the story.
I wish they hadn't included Asano though, it was like they took a bit player and shined the spotlight on him as he continued doing nothing of interest or importance.
Aquillion
2006-09-29, 18:57
I suspect that the real reason they were included was just to give Yoko someone to talk to in the first half of the first plot arc. Without them, Yoko would've been alone for a lot of scenes, or at least without anyone she could really discuss her situation with... that's fine in a novel where you can just describe things from her point of view, but in a TV show you usually need more dialog. That's why they disappeared just before she met Rakshun, too.
empressyouko
2006-10-08, 04:14
Rakushun is one of my fav charecters. he is wise and humble. i wish they would continue the anime. but i am waiting for the release of the book next year.do any of u have the links to the manga series. i wanted to post a signature in the signboards but what is the cookie pass thing put there.i get a security error when i submit
http://www3.rocketbbs.com/401/12kirin.html
Last night I marathoned up to 39 and felt like I finished the series -- but how come there are a few more stray episodes?! I watched them and sure, it was a nice story, but they were just.. out there. I understand it a bit after I found out they were aired some time after, and they go by arcs/novels; it feels like it would've been more fitting to put the last arc before the one preceeding it, though. "Alright, guys, this is the grand finale completely fit with the final line and epic music and scrolling credits. But wait, we're gonna throw some more in for kicks and leave it at that."
Well, indefinite and haitus are the worst words to put together. That aside, this story is one of the greatest. I just want to applaud every time I think back to Youko of the first episode.
I understand the situation, but I'm still bothered about all the loose ends with things like Taiki; they dove into his character and story so deeply and thoroughly but there's nothing close to closure; and how does Kouya tie in with his adult counterpart? I do hope the novels and the consequent animations continue sometime in the future.
kari-no-sugata
2006-10-15, 17:53
Last night I marathoned up to 39 and felt like I finished the series -- but how come there are a few more stray episodes?! I watched them and sure, it was a nice story, but they were just.. out there. I understand it a bit after I found out they were aired some time after, and they go by arcs/novels; it feels like it would've been more fitting to put the last arc before the one preceeding it, though. "Alright, guys, this is the grand finale completely fit with the final line and epic music and scrolling credits. But wait, we're gonna throw some more in for kicks and leave it at that."
Yes, 1-39 was originally it. 40-45 was the start of a follow-up series but got cut short... I'm not sure how big a gap there was between the two series.
Well, indefinite and haitus are the worst words to put together. That aside, this story is one of the greatest. I just want to applaud every time I think back to Youko of the first episode.
I understand the situation, but I'm still bothered about all the loose ends with things like Taiki; they dove into his character and story so deeply and thoroughly but there's nothing close to closure; and how does Kouya tie in with his adult counterpart? I do hope the novels and the consequent animations continue sometime in the future.
Juuni Kokki is popular among fans. I think once the Taiki novel series is complete, the story will be animated. The Taiki "closeure" series is "Tasogare no Kishi, Akatsuki no Sora" (The Shore in Twilight, the Sky in Daybreak), and is 3 novels long. I believe the 3rd novel is due out next year. The first one has been translated into english and some pages of the 2nd novel, but has stopped.
The Taiki closeure arc will follow pretty easily on from ep 45 - there's few new characters, and it's mostly set around Kinpa palace (Youko's palace) with lots of flashbacks to help explain what happened in Tai.
There's some short stories too that could be animated.
Well, fingers crossed for a new series...
Whitemoon648
2006-11-02, 04:46
ahhhh i want to cre :'(. This was such a great series yet stilled it was cancelled. I havent read any of the novels ( since i just finished the series now), but if it was me i would never want the novels be rewritten to just add Youko inside the story and give her the main part. ( Well i wouldnt mind her to be in the story any ways).
It was Sad that Asano-kun died. She was treating him way too harsh at the end. Why did she tied him up.
Any ways i am not gona ask if there is any info on if the series is going to continue ore not :rolleyes: :heh: .
Also by any chance is it against the rules to ask where i can find english versions of the novel?. ( i dont know if it is Licensed or not) , Also i dont know which site tell you information on if a novel is licensed or not.
P.S. Thanks to Jediant for recommending me this show in the suggestion forums :).
go back a few pages in this thread for info on the novels...
basically, the first one is coming out in a couple of months
My only gripe with the series (as with some others as well) is that it was so good, and yet it was cut midway and then you have to read novels or manga, which aren't really that accessible, not to mention that many of us don't know japanese :p
I hope someone eventually picks up and continues Juuni Kokki with the same quality.
Aw man I didnt know I was missin out on alot. I watched that whole series too. Good series tho.
Whitemoon648
2006-11-03, 00:53
Do you guys think it will be continued?. I would guess the reason they stoped the anime was that they stoped the novels too so thats why. and i think i read in this forum the first volume is going to be realeased. So i hope the series get continued.
Right now the thing i cant wait to know is about Taiki. I want to know his story alot more than i want to know what else will happend with Yuka. There are alot of unsolved things in the series, But i just hoped they continued the Taiki Arc.
NoSanninWa
2006-11-03, 01:55
The novels were stopped because of the author's poor health. If she gets better and resumes writing the novels, then I expect the anime will eventually resume as well.
When it was cancelled the studio claimed that they needed to stop their anime adaptation because the lack of future books made it hard for them to properly understand the personalities of characters in the coming arc and how they would react to having Youko written into an arc where the novels didn't include her.
Whitemoon648
2006-11-03, 03:32
The novels were stopped because of the author's poor health. If she gets better and resumes writing the novels, then I expect the anime will eventually resume as well.
When it was cancelled the studio claimed that they needed to stop their anime adaptation because the lack of future books made it hard for them to properly understand the personalities of characters in the coming arc and how they would react to having Youko written into an arc where the novels didn't include her.
Well i myself wouldnt mind her being in the story, But i would prefere if they just go with How novel is, and mayby if they wanted to have youko in the story, give her a part at the end. So this way it wont change the main plot of the Novel.
I personally think they should have included Youko in the novel I wonder why she wasnt included in the novel related to the TaiKi story. I am not saying that because i am a Youko Fan ( as a matter of fact , i disliked her after what he did to Asano, Poor Asano didnt even know if the world was real or not. What Youko had expect of him?), But Because KeiKi was the Taiki's closest friend, so if he is going to return back, Keiki ( and so Youko as her master) should have gotten a part originally.
Well these are just my mere opinions. I havent read the novels so i wouldnt be able to know why she isnt in the novels relating to Taiki.
ZeusIrae
2006-11-03, 12:01
Well these are just my mere opinions. I havent read the novels so i wouldnt be able to know why she isnt in the novels relating to Taiki.
She's involved,Tai is near Kei and the fall of the northen kingdom is going to bring trouble to its neighbours.
Whitemoon648
2006-11-03, 22:00
A question what did kaitatsu meant?. I know they said Miss- Tatsue. But was that an insult?.
Xellos-_^
2006-11-04, 10:34
Just notice this when i was watching the 12k trailer on my figure17 dvd. And it hit me, the guy with the youkai that appear during the early eps of the taiki arc is the same guy with the youkai that appear in the last arc in ep41-45.
Wow 0_0So they animation team basically re-wrote the whole story.Not the whole. Only a part. But the novels were still pretty much interesting.
go back a few pages in this thread for info on the novels...
basically, the first one is coming out in a couple of monthsMarch? I remember someone said March. Or did I read that in the link given out?
Right now the thing i cant wait to know is about Taiki. I want to know his story alot more than i want to know what else will happend with Yuka. There are alot of unsolved things in the series, But i just hoped they continued the Taiki Arc.Gotta agree. Taiki's story is uber interesting.
Just notice this when i was watching the 12k trailer on my figure17 dvd. And it hit me, the guy with the youkai that appear during the early eps of the taiki arc is the same guy with the youkai that appear in the last arc in ep41-45.Yeah. You mean Enki's friend? Forgot his name. He went away from En, after some bad influence.
BBOvenGuy
2006-12-03, 13:56
March? I remember someone said March. Or did I read that in the link given out?
I pre-ordered my copy at Amazon.com, and they're saying March 14.
Arg. Please donate. *__*
I'm curious. What books are going to be released? Are all of the books going to be released on March? Or just one? As in one by one. And if it's one by one, which book is it? I want to know. I'm uber curious.
Translations are slow.
What are the holidays when one can't read thy favorite literatures?
Hm, funny how this thread pops up after I finished watching it yesterday... One thing I realized about the characters is that for some reason, alot of the "main" characters go through their "annoying" stages, usually at the beginning.
Youko started off whiny, became paranoid later, and had a few tantrums near the end. Still, I generally liked her development and the fact she was able to keep it together eventually. She wasn't flawless, she made her fair share of mistakes but she did realize she was only human and tried to do what she thought was right. I do think she was a little too quick to apologize for just about everything at times, when you can't really blame her for not knowing about alot of things. Her tantrums as an empress were understandable though, it was very stressful suddenly having to try and govern a country while being hampered by the minister council.
Sugimoto totally lost it straight away, foolishly convicing herself that she was the chosen one and refusing to take off her blinders and come to her senses. This was rather vexing to watch at times, but she redeemed herself in my eyes during the Taiki storyline, and I was disappointed not to find out how her part in that played out since that story arc went unfinished.
Sagano started off good, he was relatively cool and composed at the start, but became a total looney. Now perhaps this wasn't too farfetched and I can accept a bit of healthy paranoia after what they went through in Kou, but I still thought it went a little too far butchering his composure especially since he was taken care of by the travelling troupe for a while. You would think that would have eased his paranoia a bit. In the end, he became a nutjob that died off without accomplishing anything, and at that point I hardly cared anymore to be honest.
And then there was Suzu. I thought she was so annoying at times I couldn't stand it and wish she'd get killed off somehow. There was her idealization of the Empress of Kei expecting her to fix all her troubles for her, her endless selfpity and delusion that nobody was off worse than she was, neglecting advise from others and refusing to recognize her flaws, and suddenly the delusion that the Empress of Kei was responsible for the wrongdoings in her country going even so far to attempt an assassination without verifying any facts. God, I hated this character and if she hadn't wised up at the end I would have loved to see her become the victim of some random scuffle. You would think that a girl that lived over a 100 years would have become a little more mature, instead of just lamenting her own fate and ignoring everything around her.
I had similar thoughts about Syoukei, but in her case I had a bit more sympathy for her. Except for the fact that she somehow started to blame the Empress of Kei out of pure misguided envy, it wasn't totally her fault how things ended up. She had been blissfully ignorant and didn't know any better. Now this was partly her own fault ofcourse, but then again it was encouraged by her parents. I can imagine she had troubles overcoming her snobbiness, although resorting to thievery out of spite and jealousy and trying to blame Rakushun was a bit uncalled for. But Rakushun comes to the rescue yet again and although she initially has trouble accepting it he makes her realize the error of her ways and actually becomes a very likeable character throughout her participation in the Wa rebellion arc.
Well there's more characters I could discuss but just wanted to address the main ones with an annoyance phase. ;p As for the storylines, I guess most has been said before. It was a shame the Taiki arc wasn't wrapped up, and I also thought they should have compressed it a little bit more because it was kinda boring at times. In the current state, it would have been better if they had left out all other arcs altogether and just focussed on Youko's story. The last arc was very anticlimactic, although I do realize that more was supposed to come. They shouldn't have tried to make up a contrived way to involve Youko though (having the story told to her) just because she's the main character throughout the anime. Oh, and I also didn't like the fact that Kouya got off so easily after executing god knows how many people unnecessarily. And a general complaint was that there was too many reused material (repeated flashbacks) at times, the worst being the recap episodes ofcourse.
Hm, funny how this thread pops up after I finished watching it yesterday... One thing I realized about the characters is that for some reason, alot of the "main" characters go through their "annoying" stages, usually at the beginning.
The thing about Twelve Kingdoms is that not only are weak characters a recurring theme, but that they are essentially the main theme of the show. Virtually all of the storylines revolve around how weak characters grow into stronger ones. Just wanting to do good things is insufficient; in fact, it can lead to disaster. Lots of things that are taken for granted in other anime simply don't work in Twelve Kingdoms, and I find it quite a refreshing change.
Youko started off whiny, became paranoid later, and had a few tantrums near the end. Still, I generally liked her development and the fact she was able to keep it together eventually. She wasn't flawless, she made her fair share of mistakes but she did realize she was only human and tried to do what she thought was right. I do think she was a little too quick to apologize for just about everything at times, when you can't really blame her for not knowing about alot of things. Her tantrums as an empress were understandable though, it was very stressful suddenly having to try and govern a country while being hampered by the minister council.
No matter how much Yoko tried to do the right thing, there was no way for her to suceed until she knew what she was doing, and the context she was working from. In fact, without the proper understanding of the situation in Kei, all she managed to do was to make matters worse. As I've stated before, intentions don't count for much in the Twelve Kingdoms without appropriate actions to back them up.
And then there was Suzu. I thought she was so annoying at times I couldn't stand it and wish she'd get killed off somehow.
Self-pity and externalizing of problems make it hard to get out of a rut. Even though Suzu had a hundred years to do something, there was little in her makeup that could lead her to making a positive change. Fear is also a very strong disincentive to taking risks. In fact, without someone or some event to spur her towards taking more risks, she probably would have been stuck where she was in another hundred years time. Suzu had few chances to gain maturity, and of the chances she had, she squandered them all. It's not altogether uncommon for people to end up like that.
The last arc was very anticlimactic, although I do realize that more was supposed to come. They shouldn't have tried to make up a contrived way to involve Youko though (having the story told to her) just because she's the main character throughout the anime. Oh, and I also didn't like the fact that Kouya got off so easily after executing god knows how many people unnecessarily. And a general complaint was that there was too many reused material (repeated flashbacks) at times, the worst being the recap episodes ofcourse.
I don't think of Twelve Kingdoms so much as a single story; it's more of a series of smaller stories wherein the main character is the universe of the Twelve Kingdoms itself. The only anime that I can think of with a structure similar to this are Kino's Journey and the Crest of the Stars series. Even in those cases, the differences stand out far more than the similarities do. I can see why the creators decided to use Yoko as the common thread to hold the disparate stories together, but I don't think that it was altogether necessary either.
As a bit of a side note, I think that the recap episodes in Twelve Kingdoms are quite good. At the very least, they serve as a good refresher course for the large amount of vocabulary in the show.
Wasn't saying that the characters' state of mind and development was unrealistic, just noticed a trend in their "annoyance factor". Quite rare to see a collection of characters all going through such a phase though, it was probably a bit too much even if it's understandable looking at each situation seperately. I can even relate to Suzu to some degree, but come on - a 100 years without any change in her character?! And such a crybaby, just about every episode she appeared in. Ugh. :)
Still didn't like the recaps though, but then again you tend to hate those if you're watching alot of episodes in one sitting. And tying Yoko to the other arcs just by getting the stories told to her was a rather weak approach. Should have left her out of that at the least, and focussed on the ones actually involved with those stories. Not finishing the Taiki arc was the worst bit though, I don't really see why that was cut off prematurely.
Oh, and I never would have thought I'd like a mouse character. Kudos to Rakushun. ;)
Bronwen Stx
2006-12-13, 23:51
Tokyopop has announced that it will release the first Twelve Kingdoms novel in March 2007. Read it here - not much in the way of detail, and way at the bottom of the article, but hey, it's better than nothing:
http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1972050
Oh. Oh. I'm late for this but I am ridiculously glad. I simply adore the anime and I've finished reading the novels corresponding to the anime (translated online) and I can't wait to read the novel by tokyopop. Some interesting stuff is happening in the third arc of Youko's story.
that'll resolve Taiki's story.
As for the anime itself. I personally enjoyed all the characters' growth. Love the fact that this wasn't another Fushigi Yuugi (because honestly, FY had a lot of potential but totally fucked it up because of the atrocity that's called Miaka and Tamahome) and deals with matters that were extremely fascinating to me.
Wasn't saying that the characters' state of mind and development was unrealistic, just noticed a trend in their "annoyance factor". Quite rare to see a collection of characters all going through such a phase though, it was probably a bit too much even if it's understandable looking at each situation seperately.
I think of each situation quite separately - they mostly take place years apart and thousands of kilometers from each other. In the case of Shoukei and Suzu, they were drawn precisely to Yoko because they perceived a shared commonality to her.
I can even relate to Suzu to some degree, but come on - a 100 years without any change in her character?! And such a crybaby, just about every episode she appeared in. Ugh.
I suppose I don't find characters annoying in the same way that many other people do, but Suzu's character didn't really rub me the wrong way. I don't think that she was entirely sympathetic either, but then again, she wasn't meant to be. As far as the hundred years go, I meet middle-aged and older people who haven't matured beyond their teenaged years all the time. A few extra decades here or there are highly unlikely to change that.
Still didn't like the recaps though, but then again you tend to hate those if you're watching alot of episodes in one sitting. And tying Yoko to the other arcs just by getting the stories told to her was a rather weak approach. Should have left her out of that at the least, and focussed on the ones actually involved with those stories. Not finishing the Taiki arc was the worst bit though, I don't really see why that was cut off prematurely.
I think that tying the stories to Yoko isn't really that bad an idea. Without some sort of structure, the stories would appear rather random, especially as they jump from kingdom to kingdom, and from time period to time period.
I've heard of lots of reasons for not finishing the Taiki story, but I think that the production team simply ran into a bunch of problems, and decided to finish off where they were instead of forging ahead and possibly screwing things up. The funny thing is that they left it at a really weird place. As far as I know, unlike normal shows, Twelve Kingdoms' first season was episodes 1-39, and the rest was supposed to be the second season. This means that they would have decided to cancel the rest of the show just as the second season started, which leads to all sorts of interesting implications. The one that matters to me is that episode 39 can be legitimately seen as the ending of the show (it also happens to show the last significant events chronologically).
Oh, and I never would have thought I'd like a mouse character. Kudos to Rakushun.
Kudos to Rakushun indeed. He's my favorite male character in all of anime.
Oh. Oh. I'm late for this but I am ridiculously glad. I simply adore the anime and I've finished reading the novels corresponding to the anime (translated online) and I can't wait to read the novel by tokyopop. Some interesting stuff is happening in the third arc of Youko's story.
that'll resolve Taiki's story.
As for the anime itself. I personally enjoyed all the characters' growth. Love the fact that this wasn't another Fushigi Yuugi (because honestly, FY had a lot of potential but totally fucked it up because of the atrocity that's called Miaka and Tamahome) and deals with matters that were extremely fascinating to me.Gya!
*__*
I havent read the 2 novels that interests me most.... Mashou no Ko and TKAS. x__x
I'd appreciate other sites.... *__*
And yeah, gotta agree with the Fushigi Part. The mangaka's main theme and common component in her works were big-time ****. Dang. Just gotta hate those 15-16 yr old gals getting preggy.
Still. I wanna know what books are gonna be out.
Poemi-chan
2006-12-31, 02:18
I watched the first 13-14 eps of this show at an anime convention some time back, and I thought it was so interesting, but I didn't watch the rest until recently. It's good, but the last episode pissed me off cos it was mainly a recap of the episode before it. And I was pissed that the Taiki story never finished. What the heck happened, right?! So then I found out about the novels, and tried to skim through for the ending to the Taiki story and never found it!!! :frustrated: Another piss off. Well, at least it explained how he disappeared, but I'm still pissed. Oy, I feel like the author is such a sadist for leaving the rest of the story out. *sigh* How disappointing. :(
Poemi-chan
2006-12-31, 02:35
And yeah, gotta agree with the Fushigi Part. The mangaka's main theme and common component in her works were big-time ****. Dang. Just gotta hate those 15-16 yr old gals getting preggy.
I agree too!! Makes me nauseous thinking about the anime, but I've heard the manga is less nauseating. After reading Alice 19th, I was actually okay and I didn't think the author was as ridiculous anymore. Then again, maybe it was just the absence of the annoying seiyuu constantly shrieking, "Tamahome!". :D
kauldron26
2007-01-05, 03:00
holy crap... just watched this anime for the second time... wow... absolutely incredible. This is an anime that will stand the test of time... i can even argue that it has the greatest character development archs in all of anime ever. i dont understand the first time i saw it, i really liked it, but this time i am head over heels inlove with Youko. If i could ever marry an anime character it would definitely be her, and damn she is fine. Her character design is just phenomenal... i love those green eyes and crimson hair. Shit i even changed my avatar as soon as i was done watching. To truly enjoy this masterpiece, u have to stop at ep 39, u will have a less "incomplete" feeling. I remembered that from the first time so this time i just stopped at ep 39, and i am in full belief that this is a masterpiece. producing 40 -45 was just a mistake on their part. I used to keep hoping that somehow the show will be finished but after learning that youko wont be involved anymore im not sure im as interested as i was in the "mythical" forth-coming books. I am just so satisfied with Youko's story ending as she gave her first decree for her new kingdom.
This anime reminds us, that the concept of "story" is the real reason many of us truly love anime. not because of the moes, fads, trends etc. A great story and characters goes a long way.
lol... im so inlove with youko right now. considering her character was 17 when she arrived in Kou, and all 39 eps span 2 years by the time the story ended in 2003 she was 19, she should be about my age now... lmao... i cant get the green eyes, crimson hair and sword out of my head. best female designed character ever. She went from being a whiny pussy to a friggin O.G. with a sword. off to sleep now.
Is it wrong to think that somewhere down the line through the years, she and Rakushun were knocking boots?? or did Shoukei fall for Rakushun and steal him from her? Is a girl and a Hyanjuu (half man/Half beast) getting together considered ummm.. beastiality?
Also, the only gripe with the show is that sex or physical attraction is never given great insight. how much does sex have to do with human motivation (sex motivates atleast 90% of everything we do) if babies are removed from a reproduction equation??
hmmm...
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-01-05, 03:55
Is it wrong to think that somewhere down the line through the years, she and Rakushun were knocking boots?? or did Shoukei fall for Rakushun and steal him from her? Is a girl and a Hyanjuu (half man/Half beast) getting together considered ummm.. beastiality?
Also, the only gripe with the show is that sex or physical attraction is never given great insight. how much does sex have to do with human motivation (sex motivates atleast 90% of everything we do) if babies are removed from a reproduction equation??
hmmm...
You should check earlier posts in this thread... I think some of us had argued about this at length.
Here is my views:
The 12 Kingdoms was a fishtank as Earth was the ocean. The Deity, whatever it is, decided to form an imitation-universe (based on Earth) that was under complete control of the God instead of being self-ruled by laws of physics.
Under this assumption, it is easy to see why sexual activities still exists even though it serves no biological function; Sexual desires are a part of humanity and as such need to be maintained for normal behaviour, but the reproductive process is removed purely so the genetic evolutionary aspect (which is chaotic and not controlled) is gone. The Deity determines when and where someone is born via the trees, and what kind of person they would be. It's like how you determine what kind of fish goes into your fishtank. That is why the tiny 12 Kingdoms universe could never be over-populated.
An example that supports this theory was not shown in the anime but was in the novel; After Youko was told about how every lifeform came from trees, she asked Rakushun if chicks hatch from chicken eggs. To which Rakushun replyed:
"Who would eat eggs if that was the case!":twitch:
The chickens lay chicken eggs in the 12 Kingdoms universe for one reason; because humans eat them. Why does humans eat them? Because humans on Earth eat them. This is major evidence for the idea that Earth human societies was the blueprint for the 12 Kingdoms.
Oh, and about Bestiality... We are talking about a universe where sexual pleasure serves no other purpose than sexual pleasure. Where the existence of a Deity is so obvious people don't bother to believe, because they know. Where Rulers have the divine right to do whatever they want (within reason)...
Frankly, Rakushun is just another person in 12 Kingdoms. Indeed, I suspect there are more prejudice against people from Earth than against him.
kari-no-sugata
2007-01-05, 18:20
That is why the tiny 12 Kingdoms universe could never be over-populated.
I pretty much agree with the entire post, but...
Not that "tiny". Each of the 12 Kingdoms is around the size of China (IIRC it says so in the novels somewhere). It takes half a month to fly from Tai (coldest kingdom) to Ren (warmest kingdom):
http://otyaku.com/animeObserver/toei/toei_2_02.htm
Even using fast-running kijyuus, it took one night and day to just get out of Tai (戴). Then, one night and day was required to cross the sea. After that, starting from a harbor city in the Kingdom of Ryuu (柳), they traveled along the coastline of the Empty Sea (虚海, Kyokai) and reached the Kingdom of Kyou (恭). After travelling south along the coastline of the Kingdom of Han (範), they again crossed the sea, and finally saw Ren (漣)’s coastline. The whole journey took them half a month by air.
Side-note: Renrin is the current owner of the Tentei created bracelet that can directly connect the 12 Kingdoms to Earth. Seems fairly clear that the connection between Earth and 12 Kingdoms is no accident, but part of the design.
I just saw the last episode! And man this was a great show. And like alot of others said. It was sad that Taiki arc was unfinished. And that ep 45 was a recap.
If the series continue, I wouldnt care so much if Youko was the main character. But It would be nice to see a little of her, and her kingdom. (But I dont think it will be more, and thats a shame)
Animax announced that it'll be broadcasting Juuni Kokki in Latin America this month.
The trailer that I saw encouraged me to do a little research.
What I found is that the anime ended unfinished, though it did got time to complete the last story arc.
The manga as well was left unfinished, and there have been no news since about five years whether it will continue or stay in indefinite hiatus.
I have made my decision, and I will be looking forward to this title. I love those kinds of stories about girls taken to the other worlds, but even best if they involve historical settings, epic drama, and war stories.
you will be happy you decided to watch it.
just know that the unfinished arc that people complain about has to do with a kirin character named taiki. but what's odd is that the unfinished arc is in the middle... the end does start a new arc, but it's no cliffhanger, so you won't be on the edge of your seat or anything...
kauldron26
2007-02-02, 03:09
im still in full belief that you should just stop at ep 39, if u really want to enjoy the series and have a fulfilling ending. ep 39 is very satisfying and rousing... it just blows you away... the first time i saw it, 40 - 45 left me underwhelmed, and a year later upon second viewing i decided to stop on 39, and i have to say with 39 being the ending for me it got into my top 10. Im fairly certain, that i wouldnt enjoy the series without youko. So i am satisfied, and not in dire need for the story to continue... Youko made the show for me. As i fell inlove with her character, i fell deeper into the anime.
Animation = 10 (the background art, and details on the outfits and world is amazing) The character designs i really, really, really, really loved. Youko's eyes are hypnotizing. seriously watch some scenes again, and those green eyes will mesmerize you.
Story = 10. Simply literally majestic, and the political intrigue is the best part.
Sound = 9 love the score, can be daunting and exhilarating
Characters = 10 i doubt u can name 5 animes that have character developments as arching as this
Value = 10 i literally rewatched certain scenes and spent hours saving screen caps when i was done
Entertainment = 10 it was bar none one of the highlights of my winter break, and i tore thru it in 2 days.
Yeah continueing past episode 39 is rather anticlimactic, there's the big ending then suddenly there's some sidestory. Wtf? :heh: But there's still a chance that the series will be finished up at some point. We can only hope. :)
Shinndou
2007-02-02, 12:38
Yeah continueing past episode 39 is rather anticlimactic, there's the big ending then suddenly there's some sidestory. Wtf? :heh: But there's still a chance that the series will be finished up at some point. We can only hope. :)
As long as Studio Pierrot is busy with Naruto and Bleach I doubt they'll ever consider making a sequel of Juuni Kokki that would conclude the unfinished story arc. I wish some other animation studio would pick up the project (Madhouse, Bones, or Production IG).
I wish some other animation studio would pick up the project (Madhouse, Bones, or Production IG).
The problem I have with that is, with a different anime crew working on it, much of the essence that I loved so much would be lost. I'm not necessarily objecting to it. I just feel that there would be a lot lost in translation.
The problem I have with that is, with a different anime crew working on it, much of the essence that I loved so much would be lost. I'm not necessarily objecting to it. I just feel that there would be a lot lost in translation.
Unless the studio that could be picking up Juuni Kokki is none other than Kyoto Animation. But that ain't going to happen.
Whitemoon648
2007-03-13, 17:25
are the novels for Juuni kokki published in japanes only?. Is there any english version for it?.
just know that the unfinished arc that people complain about has to do with a kirin character named taiki. but what's odd is that the unfinished arc is in the middle... the end does start a new arc, but it's no cliffhanger, so you won't be on the edge of your seat or anything...
Hmm... not really. The last arc of the story does take place after ch 39. It has to do with people from Tai asking help from Kei in order to save their kingdom
Otyaku.com had the translation of the first books of the next novel but it seems their domain went down...
Could I remind everyone that this is the discussion thread for the anime, not the novel.
If you wish to ask questions or discuss the novel, then please use the thread located in the Manga forum, Juuni Kokki (Twelves Kingdoms) Novel discussion (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=9615).
Plus, the novel is licensed by TokyoPop and the first volume has been (or is about to be) released. So, no discussion of translations or scans please.
Amazon link for Twelve Kingdoms novel (http://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Kingdoms-Hardcover-Sea-Shadow/dp/1598169467/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-4464453-1813662?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173826452&sr=1-1).
Joojoobees
2007-03-13, 18:21
I don't remember seeing this posted before, but the author of the novels that were adapted into this anime also wrote another series that was adapted into another anime Ghost Hunt (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=6817).
Could I remind everyone that this is the discussion thread for the anime, not the novel.
If you wish to ask questions or discuss the novel, then please use the thread located in the Manga forum, Juuni Kokki (Twelves Kingdoms) Novel discussion.
Plus, the novel is licensed by TokyoPop and the first volume has been (or is about to be) released. So, no discussion of translations or scans please.
Amazon link for Twelve Kingdoms novel.
indeed, I was searching the link for the now licensed novels but I had this odd idea that they had been licensed by Del Rey :p
In any case, sorry for any confusion I may have caused.
Zappster
2007-03-14, 04:55
I don't remember seeing this posted before, but the author of the novels that were adapted into this anime also wrote another series that was adapted into another anime Ghost Hunt (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=6817).
Maybe not in this thread but it's mentioned a couple of times at the start of the Ghost Hunt thread
I m surprised this thread still have newer post but then again, i consider 12K a classic and an epic along with animes like Robotechs and etc that's worthy of revisiting from time to time.
While it's a pity that the series was left hanging in the middle of a story arc at the end, but episode 39 pretty much wraps up what i want from the series. It's one of the few series that did an excellent job to transport you to another world and once you got over the initial irritation of Youko's early behaviour, you ll appreciate the series better.
It's one of the few anime endings (episode 39, it even had a different ED) that i consider magnificient and grand. Youko's first Imperial address to the court is probably the most inspiring speech i heard from an anime.
Joojoobees
2007-04-01, 19:53
I m surprised this thread still have newer post but then again, i consider 12K a classic and an epic along with animes like Robotechs and etc that's worthy of revisiting from time to time.
Yes, for me, 12 Kingdoms is a true classic. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if some future generation has students watch it in school.
Youko's first Imperial address to the court is probably the most inspiring speech i heard from an anime.
I think the themes that are raised in connection with Youko are profound, and have relevance to all of our lives. I love the way her trajectory is compared to other people, first her school friends and then the other two girls who are her "age". It really gives the viewer an understanding that we have to take responsibility for our own lives.
i think political science classes could watch it and analyze the motivations and methods of the different rulers. i bet you could write papers on it.
It's one of the few anime endings (episode 39, it even had a different ED) that i consider magnificient and grand. Youko's first Imperial address to the court is probably the most inspiring speech i heard from an anime.
I highly agree. I find most anime speeches to be poorly written, but I think that the one in episode 39 is absolutely excellent. Hisakawa Aya did an awesome job selling it, and the music that followed set the perfect tone.
Yes, for me, 12 Kingdoms is a true classic. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if some future generation has students watch it in school.
i think political science classes could watch it and analyze the motivations and methods of the different rulers. i bet you could write papers on it.
I wouldn't be too sure about that. I believe that much of the third arc of Twelve Kingdoms is straight from Confucious' philosophy (Enho is pretty much Kei's version of Confucious :)). I don't think that this is a very popular topic for Western schools, although I imagine that it would work better in the East.
I think the themes that are raised in connection with Youko are profound, and have relevance to all of our lives. I love the way her trajectory is compared to other people, first her school friends and then the other two girls who are her "age". It really gives the viewer an understanding that we have to take responsibility for our own lives.
Strangely enough, the messages found in Twelve Kingdoms are often completely at odds with most other anime. This one in particular, is one that I wish that I encounter more often.
As a side note, I've been wondering if a lot of the things that make Twelve Kingdoms unique might stem from the fact that the original works are novels rather than manga. So far, the anime based on novels seem to be more likely to have a depth that isn't seen so much in other works. They also seem to have better dialogue. The main exceptions to this theory would be some of the light novels designed to appeal to younger readers, but I tend to think of them as a subset of manga in the first place.
ZeusIrae
2007-04-06, 02:22
Your probably right on that.Logh and Crest of the stars were based on novels too.They are among the best anime I have ever seen.
Joojoobees
2007-04-06, 16:51
Yes, and I love 12K and Crest of the Stars. I'm sure that part of what gives them the impact they have is that they were based upon novels. They seem to have deeper, more interesting plots, perhaps because there isn't the distraction that comes from trying to create a story that is visually compelling.
I really should check out LOGH, because I think I would like it, based upon what people have said. I guess I'm just hesitant because it is so long, and I am extremely lazy. :/
Is there any news regarding plans to continue this great series? Have just finished rewatching. Can't wait to see the continuation.
Xellos-_^
2007-04-07, 14:17
Yes, and I love 12K and Crest of the Stars. I'm sure that part of what gives them the impact they have is that they were based upon novels. They seem to have deeper, more interesting plots, perhaps because there isn't the distraction that comes from trying to create a story that is visually compelling.
I really should check out LOGH, because I think I would like it, based upon what people have said. I guess I'm just hesitant because it is so long, and I am extremely lazy. :/
Once you start LOGH, you wouldn't be able to stop. You will be watching non-stop till the last sub ep. As for the length you wouldn't even feel it.
I really should check out LOGH, because I think I would like it, based upon what people have said. I guess I'm just hesitant because it is so long, and I am extremely lazy. :/
It is very good - one of the classics of anime. That said, it's narrative doesn't quite have the same kind of humanistic touch most other anime have. This doesn't necessarily detract from it, it's just a little different.
There's also other anime based on novels, but it's a little hard to tell if they're light novels or if they're regular ones. These would include Vampire Hunter D, Kino's Journey, Maria-sama ga Miteru, and so forth.
Is there any news regarding plans to continue this great series? Have just finished rewatching. Can't wait to see the continuation.
It's very unlikely for it to be continued in the near future. There's lots of reasons why the production stopped the first time, and it's highly unlikely that it'll get started up again until Ono Fuyumi writes more novels. Right now, it looks like she's busy writing more Ghost Hunt books, so it'll be a while before she adds more to Twelve Kingdoms.
Once you start LOGH, you wouldn't be able to stop. You will be watching non-stop till the last sub ep. As for the length you wouldn't even feel it.
Agreed. Much like Twelve Kingdoms, the length of Legend of Galactic Heroes doesn't drag it down. It's also a show that's more enjoyable if you've got an interest in history.
There's also other anime based on novels, but it's a little hard to tell if they're light novels or if they're regular ones. These would include Vampire Hunter D, Kino's Journey, Maria-sama ga Miteru, and so forth.
I can't speak to the others, but Kino's Journey is a pretty good novel, even if it's considered "light". TokyoPop seems to have done okay with it, and vol. 2 is coming out July 10th, according to amazon's latest info.
It's very unlikely for it to be continued in the near future. There's lots of reasons why the production stopped the first time, and it's highly unlikely that it'll get started up again until Ono Fuyumi writes more novels. Right now, it looks like she's busy writing more Ghost Hunt books, so it'll be a while before she adds more to Twelve Kingdoms.
In her interview with Tokyopop,
TP: The last novel, so far, was released in 2001. Do you plan to revisit the world of The Twelve Kingdoms and write more stories for it?
FO: Yes, I do.
But even this is not likely to resurrect the anime project. Which is a tragedy, as far as I'm concerned.
In her interview with Tokyopop,
TP: The last novel, so far, was released in 2001. Do you plan to revisit the world of The Twelve Kingdoms and write more stories for it?
FO: Yes, I do.
But even this is not likely to resurrect the anime project. Which is a tragedy, as far as I'm concerned.
Yup. That's the same interview I was talking about. The problem is that she didn't give a timeframe for resuming the books, just a general impression that she's interested in doing so. We may see something next year, or five years from now, or ten years.
This question struck me as more important:
Q: Can you tell us about what you are working on now?
A: I'm currently rewriting a girls’ horror series I wrote long ago.
Presumably, this is referring to the Ghost Hunt series of books that just got made into anime. Given how slowly Ono Fuyumi writes, it may be quite some time before we see much new material on either universe. The rest of the interview can be found here (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2007-03-18/fuyumi-ono-author-of-the-twelve-kingdoms) - it's well worth checking out.
One thing I'd like to add is that it's important that any future Twelve Kingdoms anime have the same production staff as the original. They went on to produce the Emma anime, and it's quite obvious that their attention to detail is just fantastic. I think that it goes a very long way in selling the universe.
Moonbase
2008-03-29, 05:01
*sigh* I'm going to assume that since this thread hasn't been bumped in almost a year that my hopes for more episodes are baseless. I'm not quite done the final anime arc but I heard from friends that it ends abruptly/there were plans for more. I am really, really bummed out by this. :(
sailor_titan
2008-03-31, 23:55
Yup. That's the same interview I was talking about. The problem is that she didn't give a timeframe for resuming the books, just a general impression that she's interested in doing so. We may see something next year, or five years from now, or ten years.
I read this on Wiki:
In February, 2008, the first new Twelve Kingdoms short story, Hisho no Tori (丕緒の鳥) was published in Shinchosha's Yomyom magazine.
A source is listed as yomyom's website, but it's all in Japanese. I could try translating it, but it would take me forever.
DragoonKain3
2008-04-01, 00:07
@moonbase
The anime doesn't actually end in a cliffhanger IIRC. From what I remember, if you didn't know that the series ended early, then you would be none the wiser. I say the ending was as conclusive as one can get, for something that's based on an ongoing novel.
Moonbase
2008-04-01, 02:02
@moonbase
The anime doesn't actually end in a cliffhanger IIRC. From what I remember, if you didn't know that the series ended early, then you would be none the wiser. I say the ending was as conclusive as one can get, for something that's based on an ongoing novel.
Going on Wiki info, the novels started in 1991 and ended in 2001. The anime aired from 2002 to 2003. Assuming all 6 novel volumes were done by that 2001 date, there were at least 2 more arcs not covered in the anime.
It wasn't so much that it was a cliffhanger but the last arc in the anime was done so horribly when compared to the rest of the series. If I didn't know that the anime ended early, I would have been fairly put off by Episode 45 and (as I do now) view Episode 39 and the "real" ending.
PastPrime
2008-04-01, 22:01
Going on Wiki info, the novels started in 1991 and ended in 2001. The anime aired from 2002 to 2003. Assuming all 6 novel volumes were done by that 2001 date, there were at least 2 more arcs not covered in the anime.
It wasn't so much that it was a cliffhanger but the last arc in the anime was done so horribly when compared to the rest of the series. If I didn't know that the anime ended early, I would have been fairly put off by Episode 45 and (as I do now) view Episode 39 and the "real" ending.
The last completed Novel still does not complete the story. It stops in the middle of the Kindom of Tai story, the story of which only a small part was shown in the anime. Another Novel was started, but not finished. If they had included the last completed Novel the anime would really have ended with a cliff hanger, one that might never be completed.
Moonbase
2008-04-01, 23:16
The last completed Novel still does not complete the story. It stops in the middle of the Kindom of Tai story, the story of which only a small part was shown in the anime. Another Novel was started, but not finished. If they had included the last completed Novel the anime would really have ended with a cliff hanger, one that might never be completed.
I know the anime doesn't follow the exact same order, but wouldn't the Kyou story arc take place before the Tai one? Forgetting this, the En rebellion novel was completed at this time for sure but it was cut short and is the weakest arc in the anime. There wouldn't have been a cliffhanger ending.
But this is all moot because the studio cancelled it. Le sigh.
Most of the Twelve Kingdoms story arcs are unrelated to the rest, so the actual order of making the anime isn't all that important. The Kyou story, for example, took place some 90 years before Yoko steps into the Twelve Kingdoms, so it could have been told at any time.
I'm just disappointed that the anime doesn't continue with the black Kiri's arc, as it involves the other Kingdoms, but then the writer never gets to finish it, which probably is more depressing....
carmolita
2008-04-05, 22:50
The anime isn't cancelled just on Hiatus until the author fuyumi ono finishes takas and that's according to NHK website, but she just did a 90 page short story in yom yom for 12k...which i'm excited about...she did an interview not to long ago with ANN and said that their will be more 12k..I just hope she finishes soon...afterall she is not known to be a very fast writer..The novel is on a cliff hanger too everyone want's to know what happend to taiki and guyson-their are many japanese websites(fan sites) dedicated to the series...The short story she publised is about the 3 previous queens of kei including yo -o.. and goes more into that situation.
当初のアニメ放映予定
The original schedule of broadcasting Twelve Kingdoms anime
the first year 39episodes
1「月の影 影の月」「Tsuki no kage kage no Umi」 Youko's story
2「風の海 迷宮の岸」+「魔性の子」「Kaze no Umi Meikyuu no Kishi」+「Mashou no Ko」 Taiki's story
3「風の万里 黎明の空」 「Kaze no banri Reimei no Sora」 Youko's story
the second year 39episodes
4「東の海神 西の滄海」+「漂泊」 「Higashi no Wadatsumi Nishi no Soukai」+「Hyouhaku」 Rokuta and Shouryuu's story
5「図南の翼」 「Tonan no Tsubasa」 Kyou-Ou Shushou's story
6「黄昏の岸 暁の天」 「Tasogare no Kishi Akatsuki no Sora」 （already published ＋hitherto unpublished） Youko and Taiki's story
Moonbase
2008-04-06, 04:14
The anime isn't cancelled just on Hiatus until the author fuyumi ono finishes takas and that's according to NHK website...
I want to believe this so badly but just the sheer amount of time that has passed makes a sequel seem completely unlikely to me. Also, I don't know if it would even be the same anime anymore; the original cast and crew are probably doing other things now.
Yet I still hope...
donquigleone
2008-05-08, 14:10
Anyone know what the song Suzu sings in episode 23(around 5:45) is called? I know it's very old (and was in The Mikado of all things). I can't find out what the song is called anywhere. Is it a song with no name? I'd like to find a recording that isn't from the Mikado.
Anyone know what the song Suzu sings in episode 23(around 5:45) is called? I know it's very old (and was in The Mikado of all things). I can't find out what the song is called anywhere. Is it a song with no name? I'd like to find a recording that isn't from the Mikado.
According to one fan site, The song Suzu sings is a very old Japanese song. Miya-san is actually a Japanese emperor from long ago. but I'm sorry, I can't seem to find the name of the song or anything.
Myself, I'm also interested in the "little doll" song the princess sings all the time. Is it also a traditional song?
I want to believe this so badly but just the sheer amount of time that has passed makes a sequel seem completely unlikely to me. Also, I don't know if it would even be the same anime anymore; the original cast and crew are probably doing other things now.
The key to the crew is Kobayashi Tsuneo, and he made the Emma shows just last year, and the cast members are still relatively active, so that shouldn't be a major issue. The time since Twelve Kingdoms ended is probably the bigger impediment, but that's all moot unless Fuyumi Ono writes more books. The last I heard, she was concentrating on Ghost Hunt, so it may be a while before there's any news on this front.
Anyone know what the song Suzu sings in episode 23(around 5:45) is called? I know it's very old (and was in The Mikado of all things). I can't find out what the song is called anywhere. Is it a song with no name? I'd like to find a recording that isn't from the Mikado.
The name of the song is "Tokoton Yare-Bushi", and I believe that the Gilbert and Sullivan version is just a shortened form of the original. You can read more about it here (http://www.east-asian-history.net/textbooks/172/Miya-san.htm) (under the name Miya-san), or you can search under トコトンヤレ if you're interested in something more authentic. By the way, it dates back to the Meiji Restoration, so it's only about 140 years old.
Shoukei's song is probably an original work; which makes sense since she's not very likely to know any traditional Japanese music ;).
donquigleone
2008-05-09, 10:37
Thanks 4tran, other than the intial link you gave out the only thing I've managed to turn up (searching through Japanese no less :P) is midi versions. If there's a nice mp3 version of the song it's eluded me thus far. Anyone with Japanese know where to look for a nice rendition of the song?
The really anoying thing is that I haven't turned up anything in wikipedia or youtube. Is it that obscure? I mean their are clips from the Gilbert and Sullivan renditions, which i would have thought to have been pretty obscure.
Tiamat's Disciple
2008-05-09, 12:34
I want to believe this so badly but just the sheer amount of time that has passed makes a sequel seem completely unlikely to me. Also, I don't know if it would even be the same anime anymore; the original cast and crew are probably doing other things now.
Yet I still hope...
It'll be a loooong wait for new material 12 kingdoms is low on fuyumi's list. She's finishing other works first, aswell as starting a new one, before returning to twelve kingdoms. Though she does plan to get back to it at 'some point'. And those were her exact words, 'some point' :)
That said, i have to agree, given the length of time thats gone by it would be weird with a new cast. This could only really work if they got the original cast together.
However, they created enough of their own stuff for the first series anyway, so i don't see why they can't continue pulling stuff out their rears, and make another season
Hey guys
I have really enjoyed 12 kingdoms, it is one of my favorite anime. You the story isn't finished yet, Fuyumi Ono is still going to publish many novels to continue the story.
My question is: Will there be a new 12 kingdoms anime soon? Any information will be sufficient really guys i am eager to know any information available. I am optimistic that i will hear good news.
Regards
SeijiSensei
2008-09-04, 16:32
Did you read the thread, or even the posting above yours, before asking this question? This issue has been discussed about a gazillion times before. There is no evidence that there will be any more episodes of Juuni Kokki for quite some time to come if ever.
Did you read the thread, or even the posting above yours, before asking this question? This issue has been discussed about a gazillion times before. There is no evidence that there will be any more episodes of Juuni Kokki for quite some time to come if ever.
Hey SeijiSenei I know it is discussed many times in this thread but when I searched for the "12 kingdoms" i couldn't find anything related to my question so i made a new thread that was merged with this one later on. ;)
Xellos-_^
2009-03-14, 18:22
The anime isn't cancelled just on Hiatus until the author fuyumi ono finishes takas and that's according to NHK website, but she just did a 90 page short story in yom yom for 12k...which i'm excited about...she did an interview not to long ago with ANN and said that their will be more 12k..I just hope she finishes soon...afterall she is not known to be a very fast writer..The novel is on a cliff hanger too everyone want's to know what happend to taiki and guyson-their are many japanese websites(fan sites) dedicated to the series...The short story she publised is about the 3 previous queens of kei including yo -o.. and goes more into that situation.
当初のアニメ放映予定
The original schedule of broadcasting Twelve Kingdoms anime
the first year 39episodes
1「月の影 影の月」「Tsuki no kage kage no Umi」 Youko's story
2「風の海 迷宮の岸」+「魔性の子」「Kaze no Umi Meikyuu no Kishi」+「Mashou no Ko」 Taiki's story
3「風の万里 黎明の空」 「Kaze no banri Reimei no Sora」 Youko's story
the second year 39episodes
4「東の海神 西の滄海」+「漂泊」 「Higashi no Wadatsumi Nishi no Soukai」+「Hyouhaku」 Rokuta and Shouryuu's story
5「図南の翼」 「Tonan no Tsubasa」 Kyou-Ou Shushou's story
6「黄昏の岸 暁の天」 「Tasogare no Kishi Akatsuki no Sora」 （already published ＋hitherto unpublished） Youko and Taiki's story
华胥之幽梦
so what is this story arc about?
edit: Just read the first chapter of the Kyou-Ou and does that girl have ballz. I hope she gets more story time later.
Cai Calamigarde
2009-06-24, 12:58
Hey,
I was wondering which book volumes did the anime cover, does anybody know?
Is it just 1 and 2? Coz, I gotta buy the 3rd volume then =)
Hey,
I was wondering which book volumes did the anime cover, does anybody know?
Is it just 1 and 2? Coz, I gotta buy the 3rd volume then =)
I believe the anime covers the first three volumes. May include a little bit of the fourth, though i'm not 100% sure on that one.
Hey,
I was wondering which book volumes did the anime cover, does anybody know?
Is it just 1 and 2? Coz, I gotta buy the 3rd volume then =)Looking at the episode titles it seems that the final arc of the anime (episodes 41-45) handled the third book although I have no idea how faithful the anime is compared to the book.
Looking at the episode titles it seems that the final arc of the anime (episodes 41-45) handled the third book although I have no idea how faithful the anime is compared to the book.
There's quite a big change with the first book compared to the first 12/13 episodes, though it's a change that works well for the adaptation. Nothing to do with the manga story, just an add-in that helps the viewers.
I wish there are more of the Twelve Kingdoms anime, since it's one of my favorite anime series for a long time. Youko is maybe one of the best character/female protagonist as a young Empress in an anime series. It's also kind of shame that the novel is on hiatus for a long time (well, the novel series is still unfinished).
It will be awesome if the story goes further in a mini arc with Youko going back to the "real world" for a short period to see what's changed (e.g. to see her "parents"); it would be very interesting to see how Youko react to things and people after she has become an Empress in the real world in comparison with the time when she's just a normal girl.
Actually, I want to see a live-action Twelve Kingdoms movie (maybe trilogy) in, lets say, "Lord of the Rings" quality (the "immense army' feel and the awesome CGI, well at that time) or "Hero" quality (for the costumes and atmosphere); of course with proper casting, not with those cheap costumes.
carmolita
2009-06-24, 17:58
The last arc was suppose to cover the TAKAS novels in the 12k series, but even the second half of TAKAS is unfinished:( I've been waiting for years. fuyumi Ono is suppose to of done a short story since then in one of the Japanes magazines. ANN did a interview with her about a year ago and asked her if she was going to finish the series and she said yes.., but didn't say when-at the time she was still doing Ghost Hunt... She is a horror story writer so to write a novel(not manga) of this type was unexpected for her.. However I take comfort in knowing that- nothing in the anime was alterd without her consent.. And if they didn't make the changes they did- the story would of become boring and difficult to tell..
FateAnomaly
2009-06-24, 23:16
Really like the anime. Disappointed when i realise it is not going to be complete. Even if the novel does end, the anime will forever be in limbo.
it was a good series, it felt like to me unfinished
[QUOTE=TCman;2470030]I wish there are more of the Twelve Kingdoms anime, since it's one of my favorite anime series for a long time. Youko is maybe one of the best character/female protagonist as a young Empress in an anime series. QUOTE]
yes Yoko is different from many normal female lead, she struggled and suffered a lot to reach where she is, and she kept learning to the end
this is surely one of my top 10 series :)
i remember the Tai story still has no ending...
-- back to waiting mode --
Hey,
I was wondering which book volumes did the anime cover, does anybody know?
Is it just 1 and 2? Coz, I gotta buy the 3rd volume then =)
The Youko arc was told in the first novel.
The Taiki arc was told in the second novel.
The Youki/Shoukei/Suzu arc was told in the fourth novel.
The Shoryuu/Rokuta arc was told in the third novel.
As far as I can tell, the anime similar is very similar to the novel, so it's far from "necessary" to read any of the first four novels, but it's probably well worth doing anyways because they are very good. Novels 5 and 6 will have material that never was animated, and novel 7 has short stories that would be new material as well.
The last arc was suppose to cover the TAKAS novels in the 12k series, but even the second half of TAKAS is unfinished:( I've been waiting for years. fuyumi Ono is suppose to of done a short story since then in one of the Japanes magazines. ANN did a interview with her about a year ago and asked her if she was going to finish the series and she said yes.., but didn't say when-at the time she was still doing Ghost Hunt... She is a horror story writer so to write a novel(not manga) of this type was unexpected for her.. However I take comfort in knowing that- nothing in the anime was alterd without her consent.. And if they didn't make the changes they did- the story would of become boring and difficult to tell..
At this point, the chances of any further anime material is growing more and more faint. As far as I can tell, the show itself is still decently popular, but some seven years have passed, and it's going to take a big push to get the ball rolling on this project again. I figure that only Ono Fuyumi writing more Twelve Kingdom novels will be enough to do that. Given how infrequently she writes new books (no new Twelve Kingdoms novels since 2001, and no new novels period since 2003), that doesn't look like a very healthy prospect.
FateAnomaly
2009-06-26, 01:11
I just don't understand. She had a wonderful story going why did she had to stop.
carmolita
2009-06-27, 07:54
I just don't understand. She had a wonderful story going why did she had to stop.
She wanted a break and asked them to stop, and because nothing could be done without her consent and she needed to write more story they didn't have a choice. Their just wasn't enough material to keep animating and then there were some really difficult characters being introduced in the TAKAS arc that they needed more information for -one particular is that guy w/ the magics. This was said in a Japanese interview with NHK about the show. There's also an interview in the extras on one of the 12k dvd's that gives a little insight on the situation. Fuyumi Ono out did herself on this project she created everything from scratch and the kanji is most difficult for most japanese to read that they even had to buy another book to go along with the novel. She has said many times through the years that she is still writing and asked fans to be patient.:( But the only thing she has written/released on it was a short story that was published in a Japanese magazine-unfortunatly it wasn't any TAKAS. If your trying to find out what happend to taiki that's the novel that you have to read. But even it has another part that hasn't been written yet and worst of all it has a MAJOR cliff hanger!
Maybe she's secretly writing them so that she could publish it ALL in one go :).
Yeah right :)
Yggdrasil
2009-06-27, 10:05
As much as I love Juuni Kokki, I would rather see a new Berserk series. Really can't understand that nobody wants to work on a remake or something like that, as there is still a lot of manga material...
carmolita
2009-06-27, 20:20
Maybe she's secretly writing them so that she could publish it ALL in one go :).
Yeah right :)
I hope so too:)
If anyone is interested the story she wrote for 12k Last year was Published in The Japanese fiction magazine (Shinchosha's) Yom yom, set in the kingdom of Kei, titled Hisho no Tori (Hisho's bird), it's 90 pages long.
It's about:
its about one of the court wizards set around yoko coronation as Queen
The wizard remembers the past 3 female rulers before yoko it gives more history of what the kingdom was like when Yo-oh was Queen and the disappointments the 3 female rulers have been
another info summary:
The story of an immortal artisan of archery targets in the kingdom of Kei, who is attempting to overcome his distrust of the new Empress (Youko) and his crippling artist's block to come up with a masterpiece for the upcoming coronation ceremony.
Interesting, it seems like at least she's still imagining in that world.
Now that you mentioned female, I just realized that 12 Kingdoms humans don't reproduce through sex, but trees.
So is sex completely nullified from the story? Or is it a pure lust thing in that world?
carmolita
2009-06-28, 07:28
Interesting, it seems like at least she's still imagining in that world.
Now that you mentioned female, I just realized that 12 Kingdoms humans don't reproduce through sex, but trees.
So is sex completely nullified from the story? Or is it a pure lust thing in that world?
NO, they still have S.. - Remember the King of En frequented brothels often, and a good portion of the story took place in brothels. However as rakushun said that if a couple wants to have a child they make a ribbon tie it to the tree, the ribbon represents the type of child they wish to have, boy or girl and what they want the child to look like. And then tentai decides whether to grant their wish or not etc.:)
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