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[T]ensio[N]
2010-06-07, 01:15
Post reviews, rants, and which you prefer


i thought internet was horrible so i switched opera liked firefox's add-ons so now to firefox... when i wasn't satisfied with the add-ons and the skins i decided to try out the extra-ordinary chrome
... OH BOY IS IT FASTER
im downloading something on steam and its still like 2x faster than ff
i suggest you get it:D

airstorm
2010-06-07, 02:03
Lack of NoScript is a deal breaker for me for any browser other than FF, no matter how slow and bloated it is getting. I just don't trust the internet enough to browse without it.

monster
2010-06-07, 02:05
They all pretty much works the same in my experience as a non-web developer. Sure, some maybe faster than others, but not so much that I would begrudge them. Most of the times I don't even notice the difference.

And while I did get a little crazy (for my standard anyway) with extensions in Firefox in the past, it turns out to be just a phase that came and went. Now I'll install maybe one or two extension myself, but I don't miss it if I'm using another browser that doesn't offer similar ability (either natively or with an extension).

So with that said, I use IE on Windows and FF on Linux. I don't own a Mac, but if I did, I'd be using Safari on it. And if I use someone else's computer, I'll use whichever browser they set as the default.

demonix
2010-06-07, 05:51
Lack of NoScript is a deal breaker for me for any browser other than FF, no matter how slow and bloated it is getting. I just don't trust the internet enough to browse without it.

From what I've heard there is a no script add on for chrome but it has been neutered so that google can still spy on your browsing habits.

TidusBlade
2010-06-07, 06:51
And while I did get a little crazy (for my standard anyway) with extensions in Firefox in the past, it turns out to be just a phase that came and went.
Sounds like me, or at least how I was a few months back xD Had almost 50 addons, down to 22 that I actually use now though, but after relying on that many I can only use Firefox comfortably. Not to say that other browsers suck, but I can't use a browser without addons like Vimperator, AdBlockPlus, FireGestures, FireProxy and TooManyTabs. Yeah most are on other browsers as well but Vimperator is the deal breaker for me I guess. That and plus, I love the Classic Compact theme.

Interesting how other people find NoScript essential, I haven't touched it yet, haven't seen the need to I guess. Probably should though, I'm ignorant when it comes to scripts on the internet :heh:

As for other browsers, no IE on Linux so that's out. I found Opera and Chrome to be pretty big memory eaters actually, even with just a bunch of addons they easily rival the amount Firefox eats up. I don't usually open up tons of tabs, but for the times I do use tons I found Firefox to be the best then as the other slow down quite a lot relatively. Maybe it's just the Linux version though, Chrome was certainly a pain to set up.

felix
2010-06-07, 08:01
Chrome is a pain, adds all sorts of bloat and turns your computer into some Google spybot. Honestly I feel like its some legal spybot/trojan/keylogger program. No thank you (yes I know about Iron). Oh and maybe this is just me but its behaviour of closing the browser when you close the last tab is hell annoying! And no, could care less of how fast it starts.

Opera was good, but a few versions back they switched from their old tried and tested engine to some new crap that's just bloatware quality and unstable as hell on a lot of sites. Their releases have been nowhere near as stable as the old versions as well, though the new skin is not that bad, its really the only good thing in years.

Firefox is buggy and could be faster but at least it works every time. Its bloat free and doesn't have stupid crap/options preinstalled. I think its default look is ugly with the giant buttons and its tab bar is less then functional, but luckily there's a nice "small icons" option by default and seems they added a option to hide the menubar as well a few versions back so I can get along with it. As far as addons for it, I only use adblock, that tabplus thing, noscript and firebug. And yes, I am using it as main browser.

Interesting how other people find NoScript essential, I haven't touched it yet, haven't seen the need to I guess. Probably should though, I'm ignorant when it comes to scripts on the internet :heh:Noscript is like a 2nd adblock. Don't bother with it if you're not used to using a firewall.

spikexp
2010-06-07, 10:33
Chrome:
Chrome is a pain, adds all sorts of bloat and turns your computer into some Google spybot. Honestly I feel like its some legal spybot/trojan/keylogger program. No thank you (yes I know about Iron). Oh and maybe this is just me but its behaviour of closing the browser when you close the last tab is hell annoying! And no, could care less of how fast it starts.

This.

FireFox:
I don't know why, but since the 3.6, firefox is so slow and buggy on my computer, the only thing I love in firefox back in the day were extension. I miss adblock, but that's all.

Safari:
Safari is a mac browser and it should really stay on mac, it just don't feel good on windows even if it's fast.

Internet Explorer:
I don't even have it on my computer (windows 7 can delete it now :D ).

Opera:
The one i use actually. Opera is fast like chrome. I love the speed dial, love the custom search, g use google, we use english wikipedia, wf french wikipedia, imdb ..., y youtube, vn visual novel database. The mouse gesture are cool too.
The only thing it's lacking is a good adblocker like adblock, the default adblock in opera is not good and not easy to use.

What I have:
Opera like main browser.
Portable firefox with many extension to use on many computer without always having to reinstall it. I use it when there is a problem with opera (never happen, but still).

chikorita157
2010-06-07, 10:54
Everything is better than Internet Explorer since Internet Explorer is pretty much crap when it comes to web standards (up to this day, it doesn't pass the Acid 3 test).

I use mainly Webkit based browsers (except Chrome) on Mac OS X since it's very good when it comes to web standards and they work with the Click2Flash plugin, which blocks embedded Flash unless you click on them to activate. Webkit is used practically everywhere on mobile devices, so you really can't miss it.

I use Opera when I am on Windows since the new interface looks nice and it's fast. This was always the default browser when I'm using other OSes.

I don't use Firefox because it does funky things on Mac OS X since it doesn't run like a native application. I stopped using it on Windows because Opera 10.5 came out, which looks prettier.

MeoTwister5
2010-06-07, 11:00
I switched to Opera after using FF a while since it used less memory but for some reason Opera 10 wouldn't even run when I updated so I went back to FF.

Winford
2010-06-07, 16:49
I use Google Chrome on my MacBook
and Safari if a website needs QuickTime.

FF is not very good for Mac OS X so I did myself the favor of just removing it.

I prefer FF on Windows though, much better than IE.

Random32
2010-06-07, 17:09
Firefox for all computer

Chrome is promising, but I love my addons and I don't trust Google

synaesthetic
2010-06-07, 18:24
I use Firefox 3.6. Chrome annoyed me on vBulletin forums, I had to physically type out the BBcode for font formatting instead of using the shortcut keys.

airstorm
2010-06-08, 01:58
I note a few people are saying they are having problems with FF on Macs. I've been using it myself for years and its been fine. What kind of things are you seeing?

I also use Safari quite a bit, but mostly just for sites I trust and have open all the time. Not for general browsing.

As Felix says, Chrome is pretty much spyware, I wouldn't want it anywhere near my machine.

calorie
2010-06-08, 06:51
They all pretty much works the same in my experience as a non-web developer. Sure, some maybe faster than others, but not so much that I would begrudge them. Most of the times I don't even notice the difference.

And while I did get a little crazy (for my standard anyway) with extensions in Firefox in the past, it turns out to be just a phase that came and went. Now I'll install maybe one or two extension myself, but I don't miss it if I'm using another browser that doesn't offer similar ability (either natively or with an extension).

So with that said, I use IE on Windows and FF on Linux. I don't own a Mac, but if I did, I'd be using Safari on it. And if I use someone else's computer, I'll use whichever browser they set as the default.

Same here - I used to be a browser freak, always tinkering and trying out every browser there is. After I've switched to Windows 7 it's been Internet Explorer 8 for me. Honestly it's not that bad for an amateur computer user, it does feel slower interface-wise but you get used to it and all the web pages I visit open with about the same speed as with the other browsers. So while the alternative Windows browsers are probably better, they're not that much better to my untrained eye. Besides, its theme and font rendering fit Windows 7 the best in my opinion and I've been trying to refrain from using any software that I don't absolutely need -- been wasting too much time on that before which only nourished my OCD.

Wervy
2010-06-08, 07:19
I just use IE, mostly because it displays pages properly. I Have tried other browsers, but with the pages displaying wrong and the interface feeling more clunky I could never get into using them. Not to mention, that right now browsers like firefox and more popular so of course there is going to be more spyware for them since they are a larger target.

Getting spyware and viruses is more a problem with the person using it than the browser. I have used IE for years and never gotten any sort of infection. I find all the people saying that a browser is to blame instead of the ignorance and stupidity of the user is laughable. If you get infected from web browsing you must be an idiot who is surfing horribly dirty sites. Frankly, if you cant use the internet properly you should go outside and play in the dirt.

airstorm
2010-06-08, 07:55
Getting spyware and viruses is more a problem with the person using it than the browser. I have used IE for years and never gotten any sort of infection. I find all the people saying that a browser is to blame instead of the ignorance and stupidity of the user is laughable. If you get infected from web browsing you must be an idiot who is surfing horribly dirty sites.

While I agree that the majority of infections are due to people doing things they shouldn't or not knowing what they are doing at all, the design and architecture of different browsers do make certain attack vectors easier to exploit. Internet Explorer's tight integration with Windows and the amount of features websites could access through it made drive-by infection trivial. That is more of a reason for IE's horrendous history with web security more than its market share.

Also consider that ad sites (or any for that matter) can be hijacked and serve dodgy content to safe sites. That is not the fault of the user and they are not being ignorant and stupid. That case isn't specifically the fault of the browser either, but it isn't helping if it implicitly trusts any code that gets thrown at it.

Additionally, its nice to be able to filter out crap you have no interest in from websites. Specifically ads and annoying flash banners and other similar nonsense. This is even more of an issue if you browse from a metered connection where you are literally paying to see whatever is the latest iteration of that Zap The Monkey thing.

Frankly, if you cant use the internet properly you should go outside and play in the dirt. Yes, indeed. But its OK to take certain precautions to minimise risks.

aeriolewinters
2010-06-08, 09:41
Running FF3.7 PM me if you know how to rename the titlebar...

Konakaga
2010-06-08, 16:03
Lack of NoScript is a deal breaker for me for any browser other than FF, no matter how slow and bloated it is getting. I just don't trust the internet enough to browse without it.

/thread for me; as I tried chrome while I liked it's speed, but it caused me to get two virus cause I wasn't careful as necessary when running without it, so I gave it up, and went back to Firefox only, since I enjoy having to be bit less paranoid while browsing the internet. Plus I've come to like the various other random/useful addons I have.

chikorita157
2010-06-08, 16:10
I just use IE, mostly because it displays pages properly. I Have tried other browsers, but with the pages displaying wrong and the interface feeling more clunky I could never get into using them. Not to mention, that right now browsers like firefox and more popular so of course there is going to be more spyware for them since they are a larger target.

Getting spyware and viruses is more a problem with the person using it than the browser. I have used IE for years and never gotten any sort of infection. I find all the people saying that a browser is to blame instead of the ignorance and stupidity of the user is laughable. If you get infected from web browsing you must be an idiot who is surfing horribly dirty sites. Frankly, if you cant use the internet properly you should go outside and play in the dirt.

I blame Internet Explorer for hindering Web Standards and giving more heartaches to web designers just because of their huge market share Microsoft abused. It's inexcusable for Internet Explorer to be behind web standards when Opera, Webkit and Mozilla implementing more web standards. Heck, Internet Explorer just recently passed Acid 2, which most of the browsers already passed... and still lagging behind Acid3 and from the looks of Internet Explorer 9, they might not even pass Acid 3 test. If the pages followed the web standards, in most cases, it will load on any browser that have full web standard support.

I use OpenDNS to protect myself from spyware and malware since it blocks all these sites before the browser loads them... even with any browser, there is a possibility of getting spyware from cookies, plugins and phishing attacks. Adobe Flash, the most widely used plugin is the biggest security target since its installed on practically every machine.

[T]ensio[N]
2010-06-08, 17:58
i say ie is the slowest i have used ever...
it may just be my computer or something but i hated it

*EDIT*
there are some pretty nice extensions for chrome btw
like WOT which is basically an anti virus for searching on the web.... NOT INTENDED TO ADVERTISE
just telling you guys

SaintessHeart
2010-06-09, 00:18
I don't use I.E, but rather, I use Firefox.

When I want to do a quick search, I use Chrome. It's default webpage is set to wikipedia.

felix
2010-06-09, 03:34
When I want to do a quick search, I use Chrome. It's default webpage is set to wikipedia.On the right side of Firefox you have a small field which says Google. Press the little icon and select Wikipedia.

Sophrosyne
2010-06-13, 07:59
On the right side of Firefox you have a small field which says Google. Press the little icon and select Wikipedia.

Or set the deafault search to Wikipedia by editing the entry "keyword.url" in the about:config. You can also use keywords like in Opera by rightclicking on the searchbar of the site you want and choosing "add keyword".

pigoz
2010-06-13, 10:46
I use Firefox. I heard Safari 5 has a really powerful extensions API, so I might switch to it in the near future.

nonexistinghero
2010-06-16, 15:34
iono, after updating firefox last time, youtube became a lot slower. Does anyone else notice this decrease in speed?

Random32
2010-06-17, 17:25
I haven't noticed any speed decrease for YouTube

felix
2010-06-17, 21:59
It might be youtube rather then the browser. They have been making changes.

Chrisjon
2010-06-17, 23:00
I used IE for a while but I switched to FF and was pleased with the results. Mainly cause I noticed I was browsing at a faster speed. I then switched to Crome but I noticed no major differences so I switched back to FF. I personally prefer FF over the three that I have tried so far.

Irenicus
2010-06-17, 23:29
I'm not l33t enough for Opera and I'm not hip enough for Chrome. Moreover, I'm not stupid enough to use IE.

So Firefox for me.

felix
2010-06-18, 00:09
I'm not l33t enough for Opera and I'm not hip enough for Chrome. Moreover, I'm not stupid enough to use IE.But are you old enough for Netscape? Or otaku enough for lolifox? Or rare enough for Maxthon? Or unix enough for Konkeror?

Or err- something enough for Safari? :heh:

Washu-Chan
2010-06-18, 02:24
I used to browse w/ Firefox, but after experimenting w/ Opera and Safari, I settled w/ Chrome, and I never looked back.

Irenicus
2010-06-18, 14:46
But are you old enough for Netscape?
No. :)

Or otaku enough for lolifox?
No. I'd just feel guilty when I use her for less pristine surfing. :p

Or rare enough for Maxthon?
I have never even heard of it, so no I guess.

Or unix enough for Konkeror?
No. Too komplikated.

Or err- something enough for Safari? :heh:
Nobody on Windows should be using iBrowse when they could just...use Firefox, or Opera. Or something. :p
Answers in the same block quote because a bunch of short quote-and-responds are ugly and annoying.

King Lycan
2010-06-21, 17:48
Google Chrome hands down

Renegade334
2010-07-01, 02:40
Well, looks like MS is trying to catch up with its competitors by making leaps and bounds. They just released the third technical preview for IE9 last week and...they've shown a good amount of progress. They're now at 83% ACID3 compliance (they intend to release the final build once they've hit the 100% mark) and...for the second time around, they've beat Firefox in speed.

Article 1 (http://news.softpedia.com/news/IE9-Races-for-Fastest-Browsers-in-the-World-Spot-with-Chrome-Firefox-Opera-and-Safari-145545.shtml)
Article 2 (http://news.softpedia.com/news/IE9-Platform-Preview-3-Scores-83-100-in-the-Acid3-Test-145387.shtml)
Chart 1 (http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/IE9-Races-for-Fastest-Browsers-in-the-World-Spot-with-Chrome-Firefox-Opera-and-Safari-4.jpg/)
Chart 2 (http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/IE9-Races-for-Fastest-Browsers-in-the-World-Spot-with-Chrome-Firefox-Opera-and-Safari-3.jpg/)

It's a bit sad IE9 (the technical preview still lacks a GUI, since it's just a technology demonstrator meant to showcase the new Chakra engine and regain some consumer faith) is only available for Vista SP2 and higher (the hardware acceleration system uses the NT 6.0/6.1 kernel and the associated driver pool, which means it cannot be backported to the NT 5.1 XP architecture), I think some people would've appreciated having it available for the still venerable XP (who's edging closer to its end of life line) -- my mother being one of them. ;D

Anyway, I only use IE to view local HTML files (and checking whether Javascript-equipped HTML files I'm working on do render well on all major browsers) and sites that DO require IE. I use Opera for the rest; I haven't used Firefox in, what...three months, and not once have I ever hazarded a look backwards?

Vexx
2010-07-01, 11:37
I just use IE, mostly because it displays pages properly. I Have tried other browsers, but with the pages displaying wrong and the interface feeling more clunky I could never get into using them. Not to mention, that right now browsers like firefox and more popular so of course there is going to be more spyware for them since they are a larger target.

Getting spyware and viruses is more a problem with the person using it than the browser. I have used IE for years and never gotten any sort of infection. I find all the people saying that a browser is to blame instead of the ignorance and stupidity of the user is laughable. If you get infected from web browsing you must be an idiot who is surfing horribly dirty sites. Frankly, if you cant use the internet properly you should go outside and play in the dirt.
The Internet security community, SANS (http://www.sans.org/), and (http://isc.sans.edu/index.html) Bruce Schneier (http://www.schneier.com/) disagree with you on Internet Explorer and those other assessments ... but hey, don't let experts and professionals dissuade you. o.O

Pretty much anything besides IE is a Good Idea, the advantage to Fireforx is extensibility and the no-script. Chrome is fast .. but may be short-lived as the makers seem to be refocusing on Chrome OS. Safari isn't bad but suffers from support and update problems. Opera is good but some people find it visually annoying. And yes, Windows 7 lets you actually remove IE from your system. Websites that only work with IE tend to be in Korea (where IE and Windows are some national religion or something) or put together by someone who used an old "Frontpage" kind of obsolete tool. I've run into a few Korean MMO type games that use an IE-based launcher but you just have to ask yourself how badly did you really want to play the silly game if it insists on a particular browser to launch or wants to use ActiveX over a public network.

Konakaga
2010-07-01, 14:48
The Internet security community, SANS (http://www.sans.org/), and (http://isc.sans.edu/index.html) Bruce Schneier (http://www.schneier.com/) disagree with you on Internet Explorer and those other assessments ... but hey, don't let experts and professionals dissuade you. o.O

Pretty much anything besides IE is a Good Idea, the advantage to Fireforx is extensibility and the no-script.

Being an IT student; I've done a fair amount researching, and reading on internet security, and such so I'd pretty well agree with Vexx on this.

synaesthetic
2010-07-01, 16:04
Wow, you can actually remove IE from Windows 7?

This hasn't been an option since before Windows XP.

SeijiSensei
2010-07-09, 08:18
I'm trying the beta of Firefox 4.0 (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-beta.html) at the moment. My first reaction is that it seems to load graphics-heavy pages faster than its predecessor.

felix
2010-07-09, 10:48
I'm trying the beta of Firefox 4.0 (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-beta.html) at the moment. My first reaction is that it seems to load graphics-heavy pages faster than its predecessor.Yeah. Seems to be the new rendering algorithms they mention in the changelog (among other tweaks there). The new layout is pretty clean, I like it. Its menus need more work though. Too bad addons like Firebug and FaviconzeTab (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3780/) (or some other tab management ones) don't seem to work with it yet. Oh well, at least I got a laugh how the the default theme is marked as "incompatible" too.

Guess I'll wait for release. Any guess when its scheduled for on the project roadmap?

Renegade334
2010-07-09, 15:17
I'm trying the beta of Firefox 4.0 (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-beta.html) at the moment. My first reaction is that it seems to load graphics-heavy pages faster than its predecessor.

That'd be because FF4 tentatively (not perfect yet) introduces the principle of hardware acceleration - it defers a lot of the rendering work to the GPU instead of the CPU, thus reducing the CPU overhead. Furthermore, with all the premature HTML5 promotion that everyone's been doing (ten years before the official recommendation will be issued) lately (Steve Jobs appears to be very determined about putting Adobe Flash out of business), hardware acceleration will be more commonplace in next-gen browsers - especially due to the new animation capabilities (<canvas> and all that).

...
Not sure about you ellow Opera users, but 10.60 is horribly buggy for me. Dragonfly (which I use every once in a while) takes an eternity to load up and as a whole, 10.60 keeps crashing all the time (5-6 times today). If this keeps up, I'll be forced to roll back to 10.54...or wait for 10.70.

tyranuus
2010-07-17, 14:10
Personally I use Internet Explorer since in it's latest version, it tends to work stably, is faster than some of the previous builds, and generally it just works; even if it abuses the standards, it's an unfortunate truth that most websites are built with IE compatibility in mind, as the largest target browser demographic, I've seen websites from large companies that are incompatible with several other browsers like firefox.
Chrome I tend to favour for (especially older) netbook usage as it's pretty light, and fast.
Safari I tried, but a bit too buggy, Firefox I tried out for a while through a few revisions and it just turned out too buggy for my liking, the addons are nice, but it never won me over enough to switch. Opera, same gist.

Hell I remember and used Netscape and the Compuserve browser so it's not like I've not like I've gone through one or two, I just decided to stick with the simplicity of IE. If it ever starts going backwards again however then I will re-evaluate my options at the time.

Wirbelwind8
2010-07-19, 16:04
I have a computer with google chrome and one with firefox. Im a little disappointed with chrome, but that's because Im spoiled from internet explorer.

Either Im just lazy or stupid, but chrome feels less user friendly. Firefox is pretty much like Internet explorer, but I've had less problems with it.

Internet explorer is just bad (good with the user, bad on the computer). I used it the longest, I just changed over to firefox and chrome a couple months ago. I've had less crap to deal with with spyware etc.

Jaden
2010-07-23, 04:53
I used IE until some of the sites I frequent begun boycotting it, forcing me to go Firefox...seems like the same thing in a slightly different package.

aeriolewinters
2010-07-31, 01:12
As of now, with regards to GPU Acceleration, I think IE9 is in the lead right now, if the benchmarks are to be believed. I'm curiously waiting for the beta right now.

Firefox 4 seems to be a memory hog right now, I've used Beta 2 and it seems that it drags down my work.

Tsumugi~
2010-07-31, 01:18
I've used Firefox for two years, in one of the latest versions though it started giving me stupid errors without any reason. I switched to Chrome and all I can say it's AWESOME.

felix
2010-07-31, 09:01
I've used Firefox for two years, in one of the latest versions though it started giving me stupid errors without any reason. I switched to Chrome and all I can say it's AWESOME.If you close the last tab does it still close the browser these days? or did they fix it.

Tsumugi~
2010-07-31, 09:14
Yeah it does :X

Raiga
2010-07-31, 09:33
If you close the last tab does it still close the browser these days? or did they fix it.

I don't consider that a problem though. It's just the browser's interface. I'm used to always keeping a tab open if I'm still browsing. When I close my last tab that means I'm done using the internet for the moment. '_'

Konakaga
2010-07-31, 09:42
I don't consider that a problem though. It's just the browser's interface. I'm used to always keeping a tab open if I'm still browsing. When I close my last tab that means I'm done using the internet for the moment. '_'

I know I do the same out of habit :uhoh:.

zette
2010-07-31, 11:35
Firefox. I've just become too used to it after all these years. I tried out Chrome for a while due to all the hype and buzz surrounding it but in the end I just prefer the look and feel of Firefox over the increased speed which to me was often negligible.

If you close the last tab does it still close the browser these days? or did they fix it.
All browsers do that as far as I know. If you hit ctrl F4 while only on one tab, the browser closes. The difference is that in Chrome, the X button is still present on the tab even if you're only on one tab. That was one thing which annoyed me about Chrome; sometimes I would click on that X by accident which is annoying.

Tsumugi~
2010-07-31, 13:21
Never had any problems with the X, and I'd take speed over looks anytime. Besides, you can change chrome's theme anyway :>

felix
2010-07-31, 13:33
I've grown to just love the default themes in browsers. :D They are not the best, but its nice that everything looks/works as intended (something custom styles/themes mess with a lot).
All browsers do that as far as I know. If you hit ctrl F4 while only on one tabCtrl+F4 is suppose to always close the application. Its Ctrl+W (or similar) for tabs. Also FF technically doesn't (I also use tab mix plus which doesn't do it), Opera doesn't, IE doesn't, Safari doesn't (I think; don't use it other for testing though). Other weird browsers I've come across over the years testing cross-browser compatibility also never did it! Chrome is just stupid when it comes to that.
I don't consider that a problem though. It's just the browser's interface. I'm used to always keeping a tab open if I'm still browsing. When I close my last tab that means I'm done using the internet for the moment. '_'
I often end up opening a lot of tabs. I'm too lazy to think "oh I've used this enough and I won't be using it in the next 3min 20s so I can close the tab for 5min before the next possible moment I'll have to use it" ...I instead just leave them there and close-on-mass. :p And its so easy to close that last tab and have the browser blow on you. This behavior is like having Photoshop go boom! when you close the last opened document, or Windows instantly going on standby when you close the last window. I understand it starts fast, but I'm sure windows starts fast from standby too. Why do I have to do all this pointless extra work like clicking its icon (or in my case type part of its name, since I use a keystroke launcher) and have the damn thing fade-in and out on me every 5 minutes (when I do tab purge again).

Anyway, sorry for the rant =P its not directed at you or anything. Last time I checked on Chrome this issue was high up on their suggestion page-thing.

T_T Google sure can fail sometimes...

Konakaga
2010-07-31, 13:53
I often end up opening a lot of tabs. I'm too lazy to think "oh I've used this enough and I won't be using it in the next 3min 20s so I can close the tab for 5min before the next possible moment I'll have to use it" ...I instead just leave them there and close-on-mass. :p And its so easy to close that last tab and have the browser blow on you. This behavior is like having Photoshop go boom! when you close the last opened document, or Windows instantly going on standby when you close the last window. I understand it starts fast, but I'm sure windows starts fast from standby too. Why do I have to do all this pointless extra work like clicking its icon (or in my case type part of its name, since I use a keystroke launcher) and have the damn thing fade-in and out on me every 5 minutes (when I do tab purge again).


Wait how are you able to close the last tab in firefox? Because on version 3.6.8, the "x" to close the tab goes as away, and so does the option to manually close it from right click when you only have one tab open, so there is no way to close it.

Tsumugi~
2010-07-31, 13:58
Wait how are you able to close the last tab in firefox? Cause on version I am using 3.6.8 the "x" to close the tab goes as away does option to manually close it from right click when you only have one tab open, so no way to close it.

Lolwut^ :heh:

Konakaga
2010-07-31, 14:13
Lolwut^ :heh:

I mention version cause I think felix is/was using the firefox 4.0 beta which might not have everything working properly :p. Also slight grammatical error on my previous post, writing never been my strong point meh. Dunno what else you'd be getting at as Felix was ranting about closing the last tab causing his browser to shutdown, which shouldn't be possible to do in firefox.

Tsumugi~
2010-07-31, 14:21
Well I don't know if firefox changed now, I stopped using it like 1 year ago. Also ctrl+W does close the tab on Chrome!

felix
2010-07-31, 15:03
Wait how are you able to close the last tab in firefox?Tab Mix Plus: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1122/ I have it since it shows me loading bars on tabs, recently opened tabs in yellow, allows me to lock/protect tabs, duplicate the current tab (very useful). Among other things it also allows me to close the last tab, thank god.

I also use FaviconizeTab (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3780/) and have it set to auto favicon tabs from things like imagehosts (lol, imageshack), imageboards, etc.

Well, I do have FF4 beta(s) installed like you guessed, but they don't work with the above; not to mention firebug (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1843/)and locationbar (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4014/). So no love </3 for it. And thats no bug, nothing wrong with closing the current annoying page that messes with your back button though redirects and flashes a hundred ads at you (I google too much, yes =P). It's also bad interface design to be honest to just take away the ability for such a pathetic reason like "its the last tab."

zette
2010-08-01, 01:53
Ctrl+F4 is suppose to always close the application. Its Ctrl+W (or similar) for tabs. Also FF technically doesn't (I also use tab mix plus which doesn't do it), Opera doesn't, IE doesn't, Safari doesn't (I think; don't use it other for testing though). Other weird browsers I've come across over the years testing cross-browser compatibility also never did it! Chrome is just stupid when it comes to that.

Ctrl F4 does close just one tab -- that shortcut is meant to close the current document, not the whole application. Are you sure you're not mixing it up with Alt F4, which is meant to close the current application? I just tested Ctrl W on IE and FF and hitting that key combination while on one tab only does close the application. This can be changed in FF though by going to about:config and changing browser.tabs.closeWindowWithLastTab to false. There's probably something like that for Chrome too, but at any rate Google should really remove the X button from the tab when you're only on one tab.

felix
2010-08-01, 06:26
Oh, right my bad, mixed them up. ^^

ShadowClone
2010-08-06, 04:57
Firefox is my default browser. Actually, I've been using it since it was the early "Gecko" engine, seen in the old Netscape 6/7 browsers (tabbed browsing rules!). Never did get used to IE, whatever incarnation/versions Microsoft came out with.

As for its "webpage rendering issues", this is easily solved by the IETab Plus add-on, which allows you to use the IE rendering engine within Firefox, so no need to open IE separately. The add-on supports AdBlock Plus as well, so even with the IE rendering engine, you STIll get to block off annoying ads! :)

Tsumugi~
2010-08-06, 06:29
I heard that IE9's beta is faster than firefox, I've yet to try it myself but I doubt it's gonna be faster than Chrome or Opera.

Renegade334
2010-08-06, 11:56
God******. Posted this in the wrong thread and didn't even realize it.

Well, well, well, looks like someone is just one whiff away from the 100% ACID3 mark. About time. (http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsofts-last-preview-of-IE9-before-beta-improves-speed-standards-compatibility/1281021714)

Incidentally, it's the last platform preview before the first beta release - this time with a working GUI. And according to Webkit Sunspider test screencaps on softpedia, PP4 is actually slightly faster (326ms) than Safari 5.0 (328ms) when it comes to running JavaScript; Opera (246ms) and Chrome (276ms) remain in the lead, though. Wonder how it'll fare once it gets a little clothing on instead of remaining barebones.
Apparently, the 5 remaining percent pertain to SVG fonts and SMIL animation (http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/08/04/html5-modernized-fourth-ie9-platform-preview-available-for-developers.aspx), both of which are either deprecated or still under development. I'm certain some hardliners are rooting for the sacrosanct 100% but at this point, implementing beta-state technology is not really top priority.

Not sure when I'll start delving into HTML5 but I'm curious about what groundbreaking features it has to offer, aside from the oft-discussed HTML animations...

felix
2010-08-07, 11:42
Not sure when I'll start delving into HTML5 but I'm curious about what groundbreaking features it has to offer, aside from the oft-discussed HTML animations...Personally I just want PUT/DELETE and all the new form controllers. Less flash is always good. Inline SVG sounds cool, dunno how useful that will be. Deprecated stuff going boom! will be interesting to see... if it ever happens.

The things I'm not too thrilled about are the new elements and attributes. I mean things like <footer> <nav> and the other junk.

ttdestroy
2010-08-10, 14:27
Opera is my favorite and has been for 2 years, but I use firefox pretty heavily also.

Links or it didn't happen! (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/opera-10.60-internet-explorer-9-safari-5,2680.html)

while this does suppport that I personally believe Opera to be fast, you could go to any website and they'd give you different results so....

felix
2010-08-10, 16:35
Hehe, the funny thing about "my browser is the fastest" comments is that most think like that after trying out other browsers. Which, incidentally, is a really good way to fool yourself.

What happens is your favorite is opening your favorite sites every single day, so naturally it now has everything cached (ie. saved on disk, memory, etc.). Yes every single thing on the page: avatars, backgrounds, images, even documents, you name it. When you actually load a page you're likely reading a lot from memory or disk, so naturally it's fast.

However, when you go to another browser (for the first time), it doesn't have all those things saved up (since duh! you haven't been using it) and suddenly as you open your favorite site to "benchmark" its performance you feel: "OH MAN, this shit is slow!"

There are lies, damn lies, and benchmarks.

ttdestroy
2010-08-10, 23:47
I agree benchmarks are lies they fulfill the same purpose the internet did 15 years ago (if it's on the internet it must be true!).

If a website benchmarked something then that means they've done all the legwork for me, and fulfilled all the requirements to make sure the test is accurate!

Not so I'm afraid, benchmarks on any website for a web browser will be inaccurate, because you can quantize but not features, which is really a part of this discussion right? The whole experience is on the table and everyone wants something different.

felix
2010-08-11, 05:36
If a website benchmarked something then that means they've done all the legwork for me, and fulfilled all the requirements to make sure the test is accurate!Yes but even if you assume the test was flawless and done under perfect control conditions, the result is still a little white lie. No benchmark will ever represent real world situations. I mean how could they, benchmarks are controlled tests, real world problems are volatile. You don't see a benchmark test how the browser functions if I have photoshop, word, excel, illustrator, a test server and sever IDEs opened do you? Or how it functions when I do a Switch User/Login.

Arguably the rendering speed of todays browsers is just way bellow the human perception limit of instant, what actually takes time is:
bad servers -- as in overworked servers
bad/slow server software -- rainbows and unicorns are nice, but they just don't work in the factory
bad web application software (http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/04/behold-wordpress-destroyer-of-cpus.html)
[and lets not forget] bad server settings and administration; what all those fancy mission critical caching features are disabled by default? go figure

Otherwise how else to explain how some very basic and simple sites (with low traffic) load much much slower then very complex feature bloated ones (with high traffic). Is it the browsers fault? :)

ttdestroy
2010-08-12, 13:24
Oh felix you know I hate you right? ;) I have to agree with everything in that post.

I wonder if we would have been having this conversation when dial-up was what everyone had. With hi-speed becoming more and more the norm, we as users come to expect more out of our browsers, like they actually make a large difference (what maybe +/- 10-15% ?) in how fast a page loads.

In short coding, a small measure of luck server-wise, and your perception of fast has a lot to do with "performance".

I still throw my hat in with Opera tho :p

Renegade334
2010-08-21, 11:33
Well, here I was thinking that the Opera guys had managed to fix some 10.60 bugs with the recent v10.61, but it seems that they're still there - though it took some time for the instability to manifest (it already crashed 4-5 times today and I'm just about to give up on the 10.6x line). Guess I'll have to revert to 10.54, which is the last stable version for me...or wait for 10.70 and hope the developers will have everything straightened out.

felix
2010-08-21, 17:21
Well, here I was thinking that the Opera guys had managed to fix some 10.60 bugs with the recent v10.61, but it seems that they're still there - though it took some time for the instability to manifest (it already crashed 4-5 times today and I'm just about to give up on the 10.6x line). Guess I'll have to revert to 10.54, which is the last stable version for me...or wait for 10.70 and hope the developers will have everything straightened out.Well it hasn't been truly stable since the 9.x series. Though different versions crash are stable for different people. :heh: I'm personally gonna wait for the 11.x series before I give Opera another go. Hopefully they fix their swamp bug too by then. I don't think I ever got it to actually work when I needed it.

Renegade334
2010-08-22, 03:06
Well it hasn't been truly stable since the 9.x series. Though different versions crash are stable for different people. :heh: I'm personally gonna wait for the 11.x series before I give Opera another go. Hopefully they fix their swamp bug too by then. I don't think I ever got it to actually work when I needed it.
It's true that at first I wasn't very strongly compelled by the 10.x series but I kind of got used to it - whatever I didn't like wasn't life-changing, just a passable nuisance. But ever since they've ventured into the 10.6x branch, I keep getting exception errors that, oh what a big surprise, do not seem to have any available fix within the Opera database, if I am to believe their bug report feature. The annoying thing is that at times I don't even know where the exception comes from - it sometimes happens when I switch program windows and start working on something else (Opera is thus supposed to be idle) and not when I open new pages or whatnot. So, for now, I'm back to 10.54. Again.

One *very* annoying thing I've had since the 10.x series is that Spybot S&D (yes, I know it's no longer the nec plus ultra antispyware powerhouse it used to be, but I still keep it along with MBAM and SASw for safety's sake - better maximize your range of antimalware detectors and cleaners) keeps deleting Opera cookies whenever I do the immunization thing. It's most likely a SBS&D programmer's error/decision, but at times it can be kind of annoying. I mean, does it really need to flag just about 98% of my Opera cookies and brand them totally unsafe, even if they don't carry ultra-confidential data? (yes, I know cookies are by nature potential security risks in regards to private life, but that's not my point)


Another problem I've had for a few months already revolves around IE and Firefox - for some reason, it appears the Adobe Flash plugin causes my wi-fi antenna to suddenly lose connexion and search for a new one. Opera seems immune to it but whenever I open websites featuring YouTube videos or whatnot, my antenna suddenly hiccoughs and I end up with a corrupted page that needs to be refreshed (and, if you're unlucky enough, rince and repeat).

I have to say, though, that in the end it's no big deal since I only use IE to check whether local, self-authored HTML files display correctly (or just read them) and Firefox is just an alternative to whenever I can't seem to have a certain web page display correctly on either IE or Opera.

Aside from that, I'm an opera sailor.

felix
2010-08-22, 04:13
Aside from that, I'm an opera sailor.Moving along "as the crow flies" ehh. :heh:

Boocah
2010-08-23, 21:37
I use both Firefox and Chrome (well, Namoroka and Chromium), preferring Firefox mainly because I'm used to it. Both work well for me, since the particulars I use are pretty much just keyboard shortcuts, AdBlock and Greasemonkey user scripts.

Renegade334
2010-09-15, 15:07
Well, looks like we will finally get to see for ourselves how much progress Redmond has made.

Download IE9 Beta 1 at "Beauty of the Web" website (http://www.beautyoftheweb.com/).

It now sports a very minimalist design (http://www.softpedia.com/progScreenshots/Internet-Explorer-9-Screenshot-154695.html) as well as the ability to add bookmarks to the Windows 7 superbar. And, what a surprise, it's got its own, in-built download manager. How well does it fare, I dunno (I'll test this later on W7, too busy right now to install a VM on my rig).

It should be of course reiterated that IE9 is only available for Vista SP2 and W7 since its hardware acceleration system is banking on the 6.0.x/6.1 NT kernel and it's unlikely MS will ever backport it to XP (they've been trying to kill that dying horse for months, if not years, now).

chikorita157
2010-09-16, 08:21
I installed Internet Explorer 9 Beta on my Windows 7 virtual machine I had in VMWare Fusion and yes, they finally got the web standards correct.
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6338/chikorita157sanimeblogw.png
The blog loaded as it would in Safari, Opera and Firefox... I'm hoping that Microsoft will continue to improve its rendering in the months and years ahead... or they would lose their relevance again.

The scrolling was a bit laggy considering that it's going through a virtual graphics adapter.

As for me, I'm sticking to Safari 5 and Opera.

monster
2010-10-13, 17:27
I just updated Kubuntu to version 10.10 this week, and I've been trying out its new default browser, Rekonq. I believe it's supposed to be like Konqueror, but using Webkit instead of KHTML.

I've never used Konqueror, always preferring Firefox. But I think I'll stick around with Rekonq for a while and see how it works out for me.

Some minor annoyances right away:
It took me a while to figure out how to edit the search engines list. I never would've thought it would be under Web Shortcuts.
And I'm not too fond of the New Tab page either. Having both favorites and bookmarks is confusing, and the Closed Tab feature is a bit annoying.

Anyway, it's only been a day, so I'll wait and see if this can replace Firefox as my browser on Kubuntu.

Renegade334
2010-10-16, 06:13
Just a piece of news for us Opera users... (http://www.betanews.com/article/Opera-announces-last-1070-build-Opera-11-complete-with-browser-extensions-comes-next/1287161263)

The Opera Team has announced that the next build of their browser will be v10.70 - and that it will also be the last one of that series. After that, they'll move onto the 11.00 alphas and betas.

11.00 will reportedly have its own extension platform based on the W3C Widget Specification, one that will support injectable JavaScript, callouts, UI items and a basic Tabs and Windows API.

...
I'm still using 10.54, though... :heh: Still reluctant to shimmy up to 10.63...

felix
2010-10-16, 12:13
11.00 will reportedly have its own extension platform based on the W3C Widget Specification, one that will support injectable JavaScript, callouts, UI items and a basic Tabs and Windows API.Great news! Go opera.

Ballad
2010-10-16, 14:55
I switch between Firefox and Chrome, but mostly use Firefox.

Renegade334
2010-10-20, 07:03
This is surprising, but oh well...

As a follow-up to my previous post, the Opera Team has eventually decided to conclude the 10.6x series by NOT releasing the final 10.70 build. (http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2010/10/14/opera-11-and-extensions)

Instead, they've chosen to go directly to 11.00 alpha which IS based on what should've been 10.70.

DragoZERO
2010-10-20, 08:05
Firefox is the main one for me. It's the extensions that really make it great. BBCodeXtra, DM BBCode, Resizable Textarea, and Back to Top make using forums so much easier.

I do use IE for secure transactions though. I feel it's a little safer and compatible with more websites as well.

felix
2010-10-20, 08:08
This is surprising, but oh well...

As a follow-up to my previous post, the Opera Team has eventually decided to conclude the 10.6x series by NOT releasing the final 10.70 build. (http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2010/10/14/opera-11-and-extensions)

Instead, they've chosen to go directly to 11.00 alpha which IS based on what should've been 10.70.And they will have extension support in the alpha of 11?

Renegade334
2010-10-20, 08:58
Excerpt from http://news.softpedia.com/news/Opera-11-Alpha-Next-Download-Last-Opera-10-70-Release-161194.shtml

Opera 11 was unveiled to the world on October 14th, with the promise that it will bring Extensions to the table.

“Extensions in Opera is a way for you to easily add new functionality to your Opera browser experience. Developers can easily create extensions using open standards (HTML5, CSS, JavaScript) and supported APIs,” noted Opera’s Espen André Øverdahl.

“Extensions will be based on the W3C Widget specifications and this is being considered for an Open Standard effort.”

The promise from Opera Software is that developers will be able to leverage an API (application programming interface) in order to build extensions for Opera 11.

But devs will only be able to start developing and publish projects after Opera 11 Alpha ships.

“With the first iteration of Opera Extensions we are focusing on open web standards and 'getting it right'. Our alpha release supports injectable JavaScript, callouts, certain UI items and a basic Tabs and Windows API,” Øverdahl added. (http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog/)

Still, with this week’s announcements from Opera Software, developers will not have too much to wait until they will be able to start extending the browser.

Looks like a "yes".

felix
2010-10-20, 09:18
Excerpt from http://news.softpedia.com/news/Opera-11-Alpha-Next-Download-Last-Opera-10-70-Release-161194.shtml

Looks like a "yes".GREAT! Can't wait for the usual stuff to get ported so I can ditch FF. :heh:

I just hope they they don't mess up their current performance with this... but we'll see.

Himeji
2010-10-20, 09:58
Using Firefox 3.6.10 here, it simply works the best for me. Second place goes to Opera, which is suffering from the lack of extensions.

Chrome is not only 100% Google spyware, but also anything you do in Chrome belongs to Google, as pointed out in their Eula. They own anything you do in Chrome and can do anything whatsoever with it, including modifying it however they see fit, selling it to 3rd parties etc.



11. Content license from you

11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. This license is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services.

11.2 You agree that this license includes a right for Google to make such Content available to other companies, organizations or individuals with whom Google has relationships for the provision of syndicated services, and to use such Content in connection with the provision of those services.

11.3 You understand that Google, in performing the required technical steps to provide the Services to our users, may (a) transmit or distribute your Content over various public networks and in various media; and (b) make such changes to your Content as are necessary to conform and adapt that Content to the technical requirements of connecting networks, devices, services or media. You agree that this license shall permit Google to take these actions.

11.4 You confirm and warrant to Google that you have all the rights, power and authority necessary to grant the above license.

Internet Exploder is likewise to be avoided. It has more security holes than a swiss cheese and also has only poor support of web standards.

11.00 will reportedly have its own extension platform based on the W3C Widget Specification, one that will support injectable JavaScript, callouts, UI items and a basic Tabs and Windows API.

Good, extensions where always the one thing that was seriously lacking in Opera. I really wonder why it took them this long to finally add them.

felix
2010-10-20, 10:33
Good, extensions where always the one thing that was seriously lacking in Opera. I really wonder why it took them this long to finally add them.My best guess would be lack of standards worth supporting.

thevil1
2010-10-20, 19:46
I switched to Google's chrome, but I changed back to FF when I found out how much chrome crashes. It has something to do with the engine that chrome uses that allows them to gain more speed while sacrificing system stability. Something like that. Someone tried to explain it to me, and I was like "DURRR"

Ryonea
2010-10-20, 20:23
I use all four: Chrome, FF, Opera, IE. My primary is chrome, but whenever it crashes or acts funny, I switch to the others. The crashes are starting to bug me lately -_-

I use the other three depending on the website I'm trying to open, some looks best in a certain browser.

sa547
2010-10-21, 01:23
Still using Firefox (as long as no other add-ons except Noscript is installed -- the more add-ons you load in, the bigger plugin-container.exe becomes bigger); tried Chrome but sometimes it becomes buggy while running along with a Gameguard-enabled MMO.

In case I need to go lean-and-mean, I use Lynx.

Renegade334
2010-10-22, 01:58
Opera v11 Build 1029 Alpha is now available for download. (http://www.opera.com/browser/next/)

Screenshots of the extension platform:

- http://www.opera.com/bitmaps/products/browser/next/opera11/alpha/scr/o11a_ext_installing.png
- http://www.opera.com/bitmaps/products/browser/next/opera11/alpha/scr/o11a_win_ext_yr.png
- http://www.opera.com/bitmaps/products/browser/next/opera11/alpha/scr/o11a_win_ext_manager.png

Vexx
2010-10-25, 23:56
Still using Firefox (as long as no other add-ons except Noscript is installed -- the more add-ons you load in, the bigger plugin-container.exe becomes bigger); tried Chrome but sometimes it becomes buggy while running along with a Gameguard-enabled MMO.

In case I need to go lean-and-mean, I use Lynx.

If you stop playing all "gameguard" or nProtect games - you might want to read this article on how to remove it.

http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/pc/articles/1709.aspx

sa547
2010-10-26, 07:12
If you stop playing all "gameguard" or nProtect games - you might want to read this article on how to remove it.

http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/pc/articles/1709.aspx

Thanks :) I know what to do with this necessary evil; haven't got much of a problem as (being an MMO player for more than four years) I've read most of the articles concerning its incompatibility with some programs and versions of Windows, and even compiled a DOS-based remover for it.

(With a virtual chaebol monopoly within the South Korean MMO development industry, I think Gameguard's gonna stay longer, even as I criticize its "protection" methods for the games it's supposed to shield, but deeper discussion about Gameguard will warrant a thread of its own.)

Going back to topic, I liked Chrome at first -- it was fast, responsive, and somewhat has smarts built into it -- but as there are some bugs cropping up, I'm sticking to FF because it can be customized and tweaked, and IMHO a bit "fail-soft".

felix
2010-10-26, 08:47
Chrome is not only 100% Google spyware, but also anything you do in Chrome belongs to Google, as pointed out in their Eula. They own anything you do in Chrome and can do anything whatsoever with it, including modifying it however they see fit, selling it to 3rd parties etc.
11. Content license from you

11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. This license is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services.

11.2 You agree that this license includes a right for Google to make such Content available to other companies, organizations or individuals with whom Google has relationships for the provision of syndicated services, and to use such Content in connection with the provision of those services.

11.3 You understand that Google, in performing the required technical steps to provide the Services to our users, may (a) transmit or distribute your Content over various public networks and in various media; and (b) make such changes to your Content as are necessary to conform and adapt that Content to the technical requirements of connecting networks, devices, services or media. You agree that this license shall permit Google to take these actions.

11.4 You confirm and warrant to Google that you have all the rights, power and authority necessary to grant the above license.

Source? Here's what http://www.google.com/chrome/eula.html?hl=en says:

10.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services.

11.1 The Software which you use may automatically download and install updates from time to time from Google. These updates are designed to improve, enhance and further develop the Services and may take the form of bug fixes, enhanced functions, new software modules and completely new versions. You agree to receive such updates (and permit Google to deliver these to you) as part of your use of the Services.

Note: There is no 10.2 or 11.2

Just for the record, I've used it several times and it's just a resource hog, who consumes ram, CPU cycles and bandwidth even when its not running; so no love from me.

Rhythm
2010-10-26, 11:36
Ever since I started using chrome, I've never stopped. Just executing it then loading up a web page....it does it in like half the time IE would. The themes IMO are also > Firefox persona's.

Sides
2010-11-07, 15:33
Running firefox/minefield x64 on my lappy (win7) and firefox 3.6 on my WinXp machine, IE is pretty much used as alternative, if some sites don't show up properly. As for chrome, use it sometimes.

Ending
2010-11-11, 16:19
I'm currently using Firefox and waiting for the next update to speed it up. It's starting to feel a little bloated and I gave a try to SRWare Iron (a Chrome variant without the potential privacy issues), but FF has a few add-ons that trump the other browsers: Better Privacy, NoScript, Ghostery, FireFTP, and StumbleUpon.

Switched back, since saving half a second in loading times wasn't worth it in comparison. It was nice, though, that Iron could import all the bookmarks and passwords with one click. It's also something that made me question the security of FF. Ye, I know; it's possible to lock the passwords behind a master key, but that's yet another password to remember.

Archon_Wing
2010-11-28, 19:35
Personally, I hate every browser, but especially IE. :heh: Chrome, having that same "where the hell is the menu" kinda look pisses me off too, -plus google seems to like insisting on installing its update programs and whatnot. IE 8 was less pathetic and more like an actual browser, but meh, still not convincing. I pretty much only use it to download another browser on a new system.

Firefox has been my browser of choice for a long time, but that has more to do having a lot of choices for customization as well as the great library of extensions. It's also not IE. Indeed, noscript is God, and is the reason I haven't used any other browser.

However, Firefox seems to be getting less and less reliable. 3.5 was absolute trash and I've had it fail to startup on a fresh install- I turned off updates for a long time til 3.6. Apparently someone had the bright idea of making it read the IE cache or something (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CFIQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fweblogs.asp.net%2Ffbouma%2Farchiv e%2F2009%2F07%2F09%2Fthe-firefox-3-5-fiasco.aspx&rct=j&q=firefox%20reads%20internet%20explorer%20cache&ei=jfbyTMbDCYq8sAPlycjbCw&usg=AFQjCNGgwqLJFvWjMSd2pIFh7K1ltIZTzQ&sig2=Xij9xIQ6y3pBi9TfbpVe-g&cad=rja); I just facepalmed. That and the community kinda annoys me with their frequent blaming everything on the user, and stuff like refusing to admit there was a memory leak for the last 10 millon versions. It's getting more and more bloated. 3.6 is better though, though that plugin-container.exe crap annoys me.

For this reason, I recommend for casual browsers who don't care about addons and such to use Opera. Opera performs very well in most cases and it seems faster than firefox, addons or not. So it is my backup browser. It may become my primary browser depending on what happens next.

felix
2010-11-29, 04:09
For this reason, I recommend for casual browsers who don't care about addons and such to use Opera. Opera has extensions starting with 11.x

Also, it would seem (for now) IE9 is the most technologically advanced browser out there.

The upcoming Firefox 4.x series seems to want to be the crappiest series to date.

If you don't like chrome you can use Safari, both have practically the same layout engine; it has it's own downloader nonsense but you should be able to turn it off. Another alternative is Iron.

demonix
2010-11-29, 08:21
and stuff like refusing to admit there was a memory leak for the last 10 millon versions.

That's because there never was a memory leak as the browser cache is committed to the computers memory (try clearing the browsers cache whilst looking at the memory footprint of firefox.exe and I'm sure you'll see a sudden drop in memory usage).

aeriolewinters
2010-12-01, 20:36
The upcoming Firefox 4.x series seems to want to be the crappiest series to date.
Yeah, it has bad implentation of Hardware Acceleration. It litterally hogs memory and is just bad, speed-wise.

Suomi
2010-12-01, 20:56
IE just plain sucks, imo. At least for me, it's slow and unruly, and it crashes/doesn't respond more often than it works.
Opera I've used before , it's decent, but not my favorite. Don't really have a lot to say about it.
Firefox! I love firefox to death! It's fast, has a bookmarks bar that I like, can be personalized, doesn't crash as often as IE (rarely crashes actually), and it's where I have all my stuff.
Chrome is annoying because I can't find the menus anywhere, and it's horrific to navigate. The only thing I use it for is Incognito (for when I'm supposed to be doing stuff like homework but am on asuki or some such), and when firefox isn't working.

Sides
2010-12-02, 05:11
Yeah, it has bad implentation of Hardware Acceleration. It litterally hogs memory and is just bad, speed-wise.

Which version are you using (32/64/win/linux/etc). Actually the nightly-builds from the beginning of last week aren't that bad, no more (or less) flash problems with the 64bit version on windows. Not sure about the 32 bit builds, but the 64bit versions are getting better and more stable.

aeriolewinters
2010-12-02, 05:21
Not sure about the 32 bit builds, but the 64bit versions are getting better and more stable.
Thanks. Links for x64 builds please.

Sides
2010-12-02, 05:29
Thanks. Links for x64 builds please.

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk/
Nightly builds are updated almost daily, once you have it running, just go to the menu -> about and it will update it.
remember to get the Adobe Flash Player "Square" if you want flash support

seiftis
2010-12-02, 13:52
I don't know why... but seems like I'm the only one not preferring FireFox. I tried it when I used my friend's laptop before, but stayed on Opera/Chrome on my own laptop.

Konakaga
2010-12-02, 17:39
I don't know why... but seems like I'm the only one not preferring FireFox. I tried it when I used my friend's laptop before, but stayed on Opera/Chrome on my own laptop.

Because NoScript (http://noscript.net/) is the best thing to happen to the internet ever, and until another browser supports I wouldn't consider changing :heh:.

felix
2010-12-02, 17:53
Because NoScript (http://noscript.net/) is the best thing to happen to the internet ever, and until another browser supports I wouldn't consider changing :heh:.Opera has a Noscript extension (https://addons.labs.opera.com/addons/extensions/details/notscripts/1.0.4/?display=en).
Chrome also has a NoScriopt extension (https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/odjhifogjcknibkahlpidmdajjpkkcfn?hl=en).

Konakaga
2010-12-02, 18:29
Opera has a Noscript extension (https://addons.labs.opera.com/addons/extensions/details/notscripts/1.0.4/?display=en).
Chrome also has a NoScriopt extension (https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/odjhifogjcknibkahlpidmdajjpkkcfn?hl=en).

I've never tried Opera tbh :heh:, though I might consider it since has support for NoScript I wasn't aware it did.

Though for Chrome I disliked layout/navigation of it and I heard google has supposedly "tweaked" NoScript on Chrome so that it wouldn't block their Ads [or at least not by default] and possibly hurt their income :rolleyes:, if anyone has knowledge of Chrome's NoScript I am curious if that rumor is true or not.

Nihokon
2010-12-05, 06:58
I've never tried Opera tbh :heh:, though I might consider it since has support for NoScript I wasn't aware it did.

Though for Chrome I disliked layout/navigation of it and I heard google has supposedly "tweaked" NoScript on Chrome so that it wouldn't block their Ads [or at least not by default] and possibly hurt their income :rolleyes:, if anyone has knowledge of Chrome's NoScript I am curious if that rumor is true or not.
NoScript wasn't created to block ads in the first place...
And there's an AdBlock (https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/gighmmpiobklfepjocnamgkkbiglidom) extension for chrome.

demonix
2010-12-05, 09:08
NoScript wasn't created to block ads in the first place...
And there's an AdBlock (https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/gighmmpiobklfepjocnamgkkbiglidom) for extension chrome.

The point is that it blocks scripts which is what google uses to deliver their adverts which is why the blocking of any google scripts is not allowed on the chrome version of NoScript plus the chrome version of adblock is complete and utter pants as well.

Nihokon
2010-12-05, 10:04
At least there were no google ads displayed when I used google chrome with adblock installed without NoScript.

I don't use chrome pretty often btw. I'm one of those firefox faithful followers.

Fuyuhotaru
2010-12-05, 13:32
woah I use Opera but didn't know theres a noscript for Opera
i don't know about others or its only mai laptop but Opera is not so flash friendly

felix
2010-12-05, 15:32
You got it the other way around: the latest flash is not so Opera friendly. Also, it's not just Opera. In the order of fail: Firefox, Opera and Chrome all have the flash hic-ups lately. Unless it's youtube or some other video site, I just open Chrome for anything flash. My friends as well. That being said, problems seem to manifest in all flash content if the page (and implicitly the browser) are left open for long periods of time...

Hopefully it will be fixed in the next version... (can't say this is the first time in history flash has become unstable).

aeriolewinters
2010-12-06, 01:00
try flash 10.2 beta... It seems to work better for FF

Archon_Wing
2010-12-06, 17:26
Opera has a Noscript extension (https://addons.labs.opera.com/addons/extensions/details/notscripts/1.0.4/?display=en).
Chrome also has a NoScriopt extension (https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/odjhifogjcknibkahlpidmdajjpkkcfn?hl=en).

Why thanks, this could be the turning point here.

felix
2010-12-06, 17:47
try flash 10.2 beta... It seems to work better for FFThanks, but since I'm building some stuff in Air rather not risk messing with it.

RadiantBeam
2010-12-06, 18:56
I've used IE for years, one of the older versions (I wanna say at least IE 7, but I can't recall it off the top of my head). I've never had major issues with it despite how it seems to be viewed as one of the worst browsers. Probably my only main complaint is the downloading/uploading speed.

Recently switched over to Chrome, and after getting over my initial OMGWTFSOSHINY reaction, I have to admit thus far I've preferred it to IE, especially in terms of speed. I still have IE installed on my system as back-up, but currently Chrome is my default browser.

I've used Firefox at work, but for some reason I've never been especially sold on it.

synaesthetic
2010-12-06, 19:09
I've been using Firefox for so many years I'm just really used to it.

Really serious browser question: does anyone know of an Android browser that allows for a full-screen landscape keyboard (the upper section with the "Go" button) in Android 2.2? The stock browser REMOVES this very helpful upper section in favor of allowing you to see the page in landscape view. The problem with this is the soft keyboard will block page elements, frequently those you are trying to type in!

felix
2010-12-06, 19:49
I've used Firefox at work, but for some reason I've never been especially sold on it.It used to be these were your only options you would hear about: IE6, Firefox and Opera. Opera was the first to come up with such things as "tabbed browsing" and undoing closed tabs; but was Ad supported, as in you had to pay to get rid of the Ads. So many people shun away from it. The now popular Google Chrome did not even exist back then...

Firefox in the 1.x series was one big mess, however, it was the first browser to support Extensions. Compared to IE6 it was brilliant, and compared to other browser it was decent/good. With the added flare of being Open Source (which to this day people don't seem to comprehend what it means), and surrounded by hype and good publicity, all 95% of people at the time knew was Firefox/IE6, and that's about it.

Since we web developers like developing in the most technically advanced browser we can get our dirty little hands on, at the time there was no choice but to develop in Firefox. To put it simply, the word "standards (http://www.w3.org/)" did not exist back then, and as far as the majority was concerned, Firefox was pushing forward with all it's nonsense extensions to CSS and the like.

In 2.x Firefox was pretty much at it's peak. Because websites were being built in Firefox and then later tested in other browsers, Firefox became a sort of de facto standard browser, where whatever it looked in Firefox, was the correct way for "half" the internet, and IE6 covered the other (so called) "half". This lead to many flocking to firefox (either via publicity on the sites, or "best viewed in" banners - which can still be seen on some sites today (http://beta.animesuki.com/)).

Now, Firefox is feeling the backlash of that success. The programing world has moved forward from cryptic disorganized development, to more clear cut standardized ways. Consequently web development has also. Thus Firefox which since the start of the 3.x series has been in a ever deeper dive, and in the upcoming 4.x series doesn't look any better, is slowly loosing the flair it once had. I don't think I've seen a "firefox is the fastest/best in [...]" article in ages, while every other browser has had their fair share of technological advancement.

The reason firefox is so hyped up and everywhere is because it still has many users. And, the reason why you still see many "firefox users" is because of "first browser" syndrome. To give a comparison, the browser Netscape which was the first "alternative browser" to go against Microsoft's IE, was effectively killed ("scrapped") at some point when Firefox 1.x was becoming popular, however many users still continued to use the browser to until effectively every official download link was erased from the web. People just like the first browser that impresses them.... It's a sort of "first good impression", it's also annoying to some to adapt to even minor differences.

You know what they say: "passing knowledge though speech". Well, it's sort of the same things. People will continue to use old wording to describe Firefox even though the original (valid) context is long since dead.

monster
2010-12-07, 00:00
the browser Netscape which was the first "alternative browser" to go against Microsoft's IE It's the other way around. That's why the word "Mozilla" is included in IE's user agent string.

synaesthetic
2010-12-07, 01:10
Chrome has too many annoying bits for me to tolerate it on a full size laptop or desktop (such as Ctrl+I not enabling italics on vBulletin sites like animesuki).

However, I do quite like it on netbooks and other ultraportables. The UX design of Chrome is very friendly to the typical 1024x600 resolution of the 10" class of laptops.

Renegade334
2010-12-16, 08:27
Say hello to Opera 11 Build 1156 Final. (http://www.opera.com/)

# User interface
* Improved
- Various improvements to tab ordering
- Opening new tabs in background and foreground using short cuts
- Redesign of the extension auto-update notification
- Handling of OEX files from the command line and from DDE
- Added a "Malware site" display in the security button when a site is blocked because it contains malware
- Added "Show Full URL" which minimizes the badge and shows the full url in the Address bar
- Added a tooltip to the search field
- Added visual enhancements to the search drop down
- Added a new Opera extension installer UI
- Added a user preference to disable the mouse gestures popup
- Added a new extension update dialog
- Added a new privacy dialog for extensions
- Added HTTP authentication skin elements to match the address field badge
- Improved dragging tabs in and out of stacks
- Updated the Speed Dial background
- Updated translation strings

# Fixed
- Crash when exiting Opera
- Crash when opening address bar drop down
- Session files not being backed up
- Extensis Web Font service not working in Opera
- Creating a custom search engine with URLs that include a "#"
- Problems with automated crash logging
- Crash when holding CTRL + W
- Tab stacking fixes:
* Tab group being hidden by closing an inactive top tab
* Extending a second tab group compresses the first group
* Tab group vanishing if you delete an active tab from call out
* Active tab not being hidden when collapsing a stack
* Issue when opening new tabs within a stack:
> Links opening in foreground or background open in the same groups as the parent tab, or a new group if one does not exist
> Position in the tab group now decided by using "Open new tab next to active"
- A problem with automatic stacking
- Repainting issue when stacking tabs
- Opera freezing when UI animations are disabled and a tab is moved
- Tab order being dropped when you drop more than one from the window list into a stack, or into normal tabs
* Crash when dragging and dropping an item to the last position on the tab bar
* Trying to merge stacks can cause them to split
* Setting the top button of collapsed group dropped into an expanded group as the active tab for the group
* Setting of active and hidden tabs in groups when the mouse up occurs
- Extensions fixes:
* Web page opened in popup was going to browser history
* Scrolling popup content also scrolls the browser's tab
* Extension description field not expanding to display the full extension description
* Visibility of extension toolbar
* Crash occurring after an extension tries to access web in offline mode
* Popup reloading on badge update
* Focusing and unfocusing the address field with keyboard shortcuts not animating the badge
* No notification displaying if an extension update fails
* Address bar not being accessible in the extensions option page
* Some extensions not displaying access info
* Crash when disabling an extension
* Font size of an author's name in extension manager
* Double clicking on OEX in file system not invoking its installation
* Blank badge displays when enabling Opera Turbo after typing in address field and focusing page
* No notification being displayed if an extension update failed
* Various fixes applied for popup skin, size, and arrow positioning
* Pop-ups opening in the foreground even though "Open in background" is set
* Security policy not being tracked during an extensions update
* Crash when adding pages to the "Read later" extension
* Opera extension update notification showing "Opera Unite application update"
* Extension manager not being keyboard navigable
* JavaSsript alert on extensions preferences does not show the extension title
* The .oex file icon on Windows
* Security indication for Web pages not displaying when Opera Turbo is on
* Confusing Opera Turbo information displays when loading https site with certificate problems
* New Address bar not displaying an "extension" badge
* Incorrect sample text for Chinese simplified and Chinese traditional occurring in the International fonts dialog
* Searchbox on another toolbar making Opera freeze on startup
* Opera opening multiple download dialogs with the same content when "Open windows instead of tabs" is enabled
* Web Panel height not growing when starting with a restored window and switching to maximized
* "Add Web Panel" not working when done through "Appearances"
* Download dialog disappearing on redirect
* Shift + Enter and Ctrl + Shift + Enter not working in the Address bar
* Inability to remove multi-search field from the Address bar
* Auto-update crash when triggering an update of Opera Unite
* Gmail Video Chat Plug-In not working
* External links being opened in private tabs
* Disabled "Shortcuts: in Quick Launch Toolbar" option on Windows 7
* "Install for all users" not creating a shortcut in the Quick launch bar for other users
* Opera's profile from the VirtualStore being merged if the UAC is disabled
* "Bookmark all open pages" putting bookmarks in wrong folder, or root folder in Manage Bookmarks view
* Fragment identifier not showing up when viewing a full URL
* No icon displaying in the address bar for malware warnings
* Right click context menu not working if mouse guestures are disabled
* Crash when performing a mouse gesture
* Crash when closing a certificate dialog
* Crash relating to keyboard input
* New installer not noticing that widgets are running when upgrading
* No "Locked File" window (and error message) appearing when trying to upgrade Opera; occurs when files in the installation folder are locked by other programs on Windows Vista

# Display and scripting
- Improved
* Extensions: Added support for debugging of isolated userjs
* Improved HTML5 forms support, including a better UI
* SVG performance improvements
* Improved memory usage
* Made various plug-in improvements

# Fixed
* Tabs being created via an extension popup not sharing cookies with the browser
* JavaScript bookmarklet not working
* Crash when configuring extensions
* Crash with extension throwing an error message
* Fragment identifiers and internal anchors not working in widgets
* Argument arrays and variable objects being left attached when an execution context is aborted
* Progress bar being removed while still loading IFRAMEs
* innerHTML including a doctype node will output a ">"
* Focus not being set on an element when there is a scrollbar
* "Zero Width Non-Joiner" character not rendering correctly in Right To Left (RTL) languages
* Web Panel height not growing when starting with a restored window and switching to maximized
* WebSocket error messages in error console not appearing in desktop
* Disabled WebSockets by default due to security problems
* Crash in Flash when going in and out of print preview
* High CPU usage sometimes occurring on Gmail
* Memory issue relating to cache

# Mail, news, chat
- Improved
* Category headers and their context menus are now keyboard accessible
* Added support for Feed folders in import and export of OPML files
* Made "Unread" count labels clickable

# Fixed
* Only creating subfolders for feeds when the top level folder is focused
* Dragging a parent feed folder into a third level child causes Opera to freeze
* Feed being added to a panel when cancelling a dialog
* Resizing the mail panel freezes Opera
* Crash when importing feeds or mail
* Label icon not displaying in the Labels column
* Removing a message label having no immediate visual feedback
* Message count missing from Trash
* Crash when using an own button for accessing mail folders without a mail account
* "Show Messages From" not hiding other account sections
* Incorrect default mail signature
* Sections in mail panel moved to the bottom disappearing after a restart
* Opera not checking newsfeeds after importing
* After removing an item from a treeview, key down to the next section does not work
* Contacts panel not being counted as a mail-related panel
* Quick reply messing up the mail body's HTML source when replying to an HTML message; occurs when "prefer HTML formatting" is set
* Mail panel scrollbar not always moving when tabbing to out-of-view sections
* Clicking inside a long section scrolls other sections out of view
* Content blocker toolbar not being set to "wrap"
* Problems with keyboard navigation in the Mailing list panel section
* Context menu breaking when using keyboard on accordion section headers
* "mailto" dialog missing its favicons

# Miscellaneous
- Fixed
* Insecure Third Party Module warning when starting Opera (DEP/Data Execution Prevention)
* Install path not being updated when upgrading Opera
* Changed the command line parameters of the installer so that they can express a change from default behavior
* Not be able to send email from Gmail when in private mode
* Changing selected characters with Microsoft IME/IME 2007 makes the background color of selected characters become transparent

# Network
- Fixed
* Connections with STP/1 remote hosts failing when socket callbacks are unordered

# Security
- Fixed
* Fixed an issue where Web page content could display misleading security information; see our advisory.
* Fixed an issue which could allow leaking of WAP form content to other sites; see our advisory.
* Fixed a high severity issue; details will be disclosed at a later date.
* Fixed further high severity issues; details will be disclosed at a later date.

I'll try this out in a couple minutes, I just hope they managed to iron out the issues that plagued the pre-10.70 builds. I'm still swinging between 10.54 and 10.63 and always returning to 10.54 after experiencing the same crashes that always seem to come out of nowhere (happens when I'm opening a certain page or when the browser is idle and I'm on a different program window).

Big innovation here is, of course, the extension platform. I will wait a bit until some of them appear and a good amount of feedback is offered. Then I'll start experimenting with them, slowly but surely. Chi va piano va sano, eh?

felix
2010-12-16, 09:26
Opera 11 is stable for me.

I hope they continue to improve the address field. Things like clickable segments would be nice.

Renegade334
2010-12-16, 11:37
Well, 11.0 seems a bit snappier compared to either 10.54 (last stable 10.5x+ build for me) or 10.63, probably due to the improvements in the rendering and JavaScript engine that should've been implemented in the stillborn 10.70...

Right now it looks like a keeper but then again, that was the first verdict I issued when I upgraded to 10.63. I'll probably let the NoScript extension alone for a while - I don't think I've heard stellar reviews about that incarnation; maybe I should give it some time. I wonder if there is a decent equivalent of either "Embedded Objects" or "AdBlock Plus" - those are the two FF addons I'd really like to see ported to Opera (yes, just those two - I'm kind of a minimalist user) and still retain the same efficiency (Opera allows me to block ads and even elements from sites either manually or with the "Block Content" click but then again it doesn't hurt to have an additional avenue to pursue the fight against ads).

On the other hand, I'm starting to lose my patience with FFox - it's supposed to run faster but it seems to drag more and more with every passing build (just upped to 3.6.13). I've got Yahoo! as homepage and loading it on startup seems to take too much time...even longer than IE8 - and that's saying something.

Sides
2010-12-16, 14:14
On the other hand, I'm starting to lose my patience with FFox - it's supposed to run faster but it seems to drag more and more with every passing build (just upped to 3.6.13). I've got Yahoo! as homepage and loading it on startup seems to take too much time...even longer than IE8 - and that's saying something.

Do you have the "yahoo application state plugin" installed? If yes try disabling it.

felix
2010-12-16, 15:26
Do you have the "yahoo application state plugin" installed? If yes try disabling it.He said he's minimalistic...

Renegade334
2010-12-16, 15:48
He said he's minimalistic...
You're right, I have never even heard about that plugin. XD

Now, to be fair with FFOX, this only happens half of the time - in fact, it seems to load half of the page in a reasonable amount of time (not slim enough to deserve dithyrambic comments, though), but it seems to lag for the remainder...a rare occurrence when using IE8 or Opera.

Anyway, I'm only using FFox when either IE8 or Opera fail to correctly render a page, which doesn't happen often. Otherwise, I only use it because I can use the "Embedded Objects" add-on to extract videos or whatever (assuming I can't manually dig it out from the page's source code).

Aside from these few perks, I've all but forsaken FF (it also had the nasty habit of causing my wireless antenna to disconnect whenever I loaded a page with Flash or Shockwave content - though Opera seemed immune to that - but I've recently changed the antenna driver, so I don't know if the problem went away on its own and FFox was blameless in the first place).

Ain't tried either Safari or Chrome, I'm content enough with my three-browser arrangement as it is.

felix
2010-12-16, 16:42
Anyway, I'm only using FFox when either IE8 or Opera fail to correctly render a pageThe first thing that comes to mind when you mentioned your problem was it's a cache issue (FF doesn't have it cached), however you said IE (another browser you probably don't use) works perfectly, which shot down that theory. However if you go to IE first, then FF, it's plausible it's a cache issue.

Renegade334
2010-12-16, 16:57
The first thing that comes to mind when you mentioned your problem was it's a cache issue (FF doesn't have it cached), however you said IE (another browser you probably don't use) works perfectly, which shot down that theory. However if you go to IE first, then FF, it's plausible it's a cache issue.
It's quite plausible since I configure all my browsers to dump the contents of their caches during shutdown. Whereas IE8 takes some sweet time just to get itself started, it loads pages in an a-okay margin, FF seems to have that annoying "load by half then wait for some time" issue (I thought that Yahoo! image server was a bit overworked and thus dragged along, but since that doesn't happen on either Opera or IE, all possible explanations remain valid).

It should be noted that this behavior is variable - it doesn't happen all the time. It's a bit sad that my user experience with FFox gets constantly worse with each recent build, most notably ever since they ventured into the 3.5+ range. 2.0+ and 3.0+ were okay but now there's that lag...non-issue since FFox is no longer my main browser and I can live with these problems (Opera 10.63 was more annoying - since I had to face crashes). I've almost become fully committed to Opera and use IE whenver I access a site that explicitly requires it due to code tailoring (Microsoft sites, home-banking). Besides, once I've cached most page files, the lag issue disappears so there's nothing to complain about anymore.

felix
2010-12-16, 17:22
2.x was the last true good series. I'll hold out on statements for 4.x but it's not looking that good thus far. It sure is going though a lot of betas, it's at what 7 now? Opera nightly builds are more stable then that...

Renegade334
2010-12-16, 20:17
Well, IE9 has seven Platform Previews (granted, those are only for developers and not the general public - which is why Microsoft didn't bother giving them the "full" UI - but still) out, plus Beta #1 (which came between PP5 and PP6) and a yet to be released Beta #2. Opera also displayed a similar behavior with 10.X's large number of alphas and betas - not to discount the RCs (which would sometimes be re-tagged as RTMs because the Opera Team thought there was no need to compile a new build just so that it could proudly carry the word "final").

Speaking of Opera, 11.0 hasn't crashed on me yet, which is an excellent performance in my book (hope I just didn't jinx myself here :heh:) after all the nonsense 10.63 put me through...and I'm absolutely loving the new tab-stacking feature (just drag one tab on top of the other to stack them). I sometimes tend to open a dozen tabs while checking a single page's links and this will allow me to regroup them. I believe it might be a bit more practical than Firefox 4's projected whatchamacallit tab management window.

Sides
2010-12-17, 07:30
He said he's minimalistic...
Still you never know, i mean i didn't know it was installed on my machine, until i look at what plugins are active and installed automatically.

List of problematic plugin list (http://kb.mozillazine.org/Issues_related_to_plugins)

felix
2010-12-17, 10:25
Still you never know, i mean i didn't know it was installed on my machine, until i look at what plugins are active and installed automatically.

List of problematic plugin list (http://kb.mozillazine.org/Issues_related_to_plugins)Always choose "Custom" whenever installing any program.

monster
2011-01-11, 20:41
Apparently, Google just announced that they will be removing H.264 support in future versions of Chrome. I don't really care since I don't use Chrome, but I hope Google won't stop providing H.264-encoded videos as an option in Youtube.

tehmuffinmon
2011-01-11, 20:48
I use internet explorer on my desktop simply because I'm used to clicking on it now, haha. I have Firefox and Chrome installed too, though. I sometimes use firefox, but haven't much lately. On my netbook, however, it's Chrome all the time.

felix
2011-01-12, 03:00
Apparently, Google just announced that they will be removing H.264 support in future versions of Chrome.What exactly was their "h264 support" doing anyway? Could Chrome open video files?

monster
2011-01-12, 03:27
What exactly was their "h264 support" doing anyway? Could Chrome open video files? I think it's playback support for H.264-encoded video within an HTML5 video element.

felix
2011-01-12, 03:38
I think it's playback support for H.264-encoded video within an HTML5 video element.Ah, I see.

Renegade334
2011-01-12, 05:53
Apparently Google wasn't too keen on tackling potential patent issues that would come with h.264 support and opted to support WebM (VP8) and Theora instead, which in their opinion, are far more open - though one might argue they are less performant than h.264, but that's a debate for another sub-forum, I believe. Flash (which uses h.264) support will remain, though.

As it stands now, I think IE8/9 is the only in-dev browser with h.264 support...:heh:

Other browser news I caught lately was that MS was tailoring IE9 Beta to take advantage of AMD's new Fusion CPU/GPU combo (otherwise called as APU - Accelerated Processing Unit) in order to deliver better, faster graphics and page rendering on-screen...right in time for the release candidate, which should be released quite soon ("early 2011").

monster
2011-01-12, 09:48
As it stands now, I think IE8/9 is the only in-dev browser with h.264 support...:heh: What about Apple Safari?

wnmnkh
2011-01-15, 00:02
What about Apple Safari?

Safari is, as far as I understand, does not natively support H.264 in any strict means.


You can check by deleting Quicktime and try view HTML5 movie encoded by H.264. You will realize Safari needs this Quicktime "plug-in" to watch HTML5 <video>.


It is actually a big lie from Apple, since one of very basic reasons we are going for HTML5 <video> is to abandon terrible plug-in problems.


Very funny thing is, right now, there are far more people who can play Theora natively as in HTML5 than H.264 thanks to Firefox's 20%+ market share, despite the fact that there are really few people who ever heard Theora (even in this forum, I assume)

Suomi
2011-01-15, 00:28
I hate IE. Period. It sucks badly >.<

Firefox is the best, it's my favorite.

Chrome is slow and a bit hard to navigate, but I use it when necessary or when Firefox is being annoying.

I used to use Opera sometimes but I don't remember liking or disliking it.

I don't like apple computers, that includes Safari.

chikorita157
2011-01-19, 09:50
I use Safari exclusively since Google decided to be stupid and ditch H264 for the inferior WebM that has hardly any support. Just recently I installed the Xiph plugin so I get Theora support (practically any webkit browser on Mac OS X can use other Quicktime plugins for HTML5).

Still use Firefox/Opera on Windows when I use Bootcamp since I don't really use it that much besides basic browsing when I play computer games.

Renegade334
2011-01-21, 19:39
Looks one of my earlier problems (recently addressed in this thread) found its resolution today, much to my relief and satisfaction - and the cause was at the antipodes of what I thought it'd be. The 'load by half then lag' issue with FF appears to have been caused by my dying PCI wifi adapter (whose central box was slightly - and quite unnervingly - swollen when I withdrew it from the PCI slot), which has been giving me grief for the past few weeks - from BSODs to uniformly skewered page rendering (for Yahoo and MSN) on all THREE browsers (Opera, IE, FF). I was quite surprised at the amount of mayhem an old wifi card could cause, to be honest...but it appears that everything has been straightened out, now that I've swapped the smoking piece of scrap with a newer Linksys 802.11n model.

I'll just have to see what other (crashes, maybe? it certainly caused BSODs and screen freezes whenever I remotely instructed my wifi router to power cycle) problems could've been caused by the faulty piece of hardware. That'll teach me to think that every software issue on my PC can only be caused by poor programming, incompatibilities and other software-related factors.


BTW, anyone got suggestions for Android browsers, aside from Opera Mini, Skyfire (a must-have if you're stuck with 2.1 Eclair and thus can't enjoy Flash support...and you can't flash the ROM in order to not lose the guarantee, either) and Dolphin HD? (currently using DHD)

Archon_Wing
2011-01-25, 15:22
It's a good thing firefox 4 will have an option to keep the menu bar. The trend towards getting rid of it is pretty annoying. (It seemed to have gotten very popular with office 2007 with its asinine interface) I mean looking more like IE is not something I'm into. :heh: The thing is by having the menu as one button is that it takes longer to reach your list of bookmarks. What's the quickest way to reach the bookmarks menu in Opera 11 anyways? Currently I just use the bookmarks bar with icons only which works well enough but usually I have a bunch of less important bookmarks that I like to sort through.

synaesthetic
2011-01-25, 17:06
I use Safari exclusively since Google decided to be stupid and ditch H264 for the inferior WebM that has hardly any support. Just recently I installed the Xiph plugin so I get Theora support (practically any webkit browser on Mac OS X can use other Quicktime plugins for HTML5).

Still use Firefox/Opera on Windows when I use Bootcamp since I don't really use it that much besides basic browsing when I play computer games.

The Not So Evil Google decided it didn't want to pay the H264 licensing fees... and I've never even heard of WebM before that announcement was made!

I still use Firefox, but I liked the Chrome to Phone functionality. Fortunately, Firefox Sync works basically the same way, and hopefully Fennec will be ready for primetime soon... the beta still crashes like mad on my phone.

I wish I could get Opera Mobile 10 working on my phone, but it is also rather crashy (which makes sense as it's still a beta, too).

monster
2011-01-25, 19:58
So apparently Mozilla will speed up development of Firefox and people can expect to see Firefox 5.0 a few months after the release of 4.0, which is due by the end of February. It's probably a response to Chrome's development cycle, but I hope Mozilla knows what they're doing. The thing is by having the menu as one button is that it takes longer to reach your list of bookmarks. The fastest way to access a bookmark is by using a bookmarks bar, either with the regular bar or a sidebar.

I use a sidebar in both Internet Explorer and Firefox, and a regular bookmarks bar in Chrome and I can access all my favorites/bookmarks in all three browsers quickly without needing a menu bar.

Archon_Wing
2011-01-26, 12:40
Bookmarks bar is fine for the most important favorites, but I have quite a few.

I never liked the sidebar as I hate expanding tree menus where you click and it expands. I should just be able to mouseover a folder to see its contents. In an ideal world, I'd just want a separate bookmarks button menu that's separate from the menu. Like (Yikes) IE, but without the tree crap.

monster
2011-01-26, 18:51
I never liked the sidebar as I hate expanding tree menus where you click and it expands. I should just be able to mouseover a folder to see its contents. In an ideal world, I'd just want a separate bookmarks button menu that's separate from the menu. Like (Yikes) IE, but without the tree crap. I don't use folders in Internet Explorer (even deteled the Favorites Bar folder) and I only use an opened Bookmarks Menu folder in Firefox. So I don't have to expand anything in both browsers. All my favorites/bookmarks are visible at all times.

Renegade334
2011-01-27, 08:38
Opera 11.01 Build 1190 is out. (http://www.opera.com/)

# Web specifications
* Implemented
- Support for window.DOMStringList object of the W3C DOM3 DOMStringList Interface

# User interface
* Improved
- Translation updates added throughout the UI
* Fixed
- Various mouse gesture sensitivity and recognition issues
- Crashes occurring with Opera Dragonfly reload, file download, extension autoupdate, search suggestions
- Crash occurring when clicking a link twice
- An issue with feed preview
- Opera installer fixes:
> Crash when installing or uninstalling Opera
> No File Lock window on upgrade when Opera is running on Windows 2000
> Several processes when upgrading on a limited Windows Vista/7 account
> Opera creating a file called desktop.ini and places it on the desktop
> Switching languages in the installer does not changing the language in the help tooltip
> Error code 76 occurring if the MSI uninstallation fails to find the source package
- Crash occuring when closing a tab
- Crash occuring when opening a downloaded file
- Default size of the search field unintentionally changing
- Crash occuring on page load for some sites, for example vkontakte.ru
- Repaint issues occuring when in Facebook
- Disk cache in Turbo mode being prematurely emptied after bringing up a context menu
- Deactivated auto-reload in speed dials when the address changes
- Removed the close button on tabs that are not selected

# Display and scripting
* Improved
- Exposed the widget object to extension scripts
* Fixed
- script element being re-executed if child text changes
- HTMLElement.toString() throwing an exception for all HTMLElement prototypes
- Touch event attributes being misnamed in SVG
- Dynamically added style sheet fails to apply if rel attribute is set after a href attribute
- DocumentType not being prototypable
- Empty script elements still have an empty text node child
- Iframe with document.domain is not being allowed to open parent's document
- Not being able to submit forms with input[type="search"] or with <input type="number"> when pressing Enter
- Deeply nested (5+ levels) iframe not loading in Analytix
- Crash when clicking in a dropdown on a WAP page
- Crash when downloading to a non-accessible target
- Opera installer crash when upgrading a running copy of Opera
- Crash prevention for spell checking
- URI fragment identifier not being exposed in all URIs

# Mail, news, chat
* Improved
- Updated the HushMail mailproviders entry
- Added MobileMe Mail-me.com-to mail providers
- Now possible to open the mail panel as a tab when only using feeds
- The appearance of the signature editor
- HTML replying and forwarding format
* Fixed
- Crash occurring with the mail account dropdown
- Mail bodies sometimes not loading in single message view
- Settings being lost for POP views after a restart
- Unread count in the Mail panel button not being updated
- Crash occurring when changing an M2 account in mail compose
- The default font for HTML mail composition
> Simultaneouly fixed an issue with dir=rtl that was inserted in the wrong place in the HTML
- Mail Toolbar instead of Feed Toolbar being shown when searching in a 'feeds only' installation
- Right-click context menu in Mail panel section headers being misplaced when the section is expanded
- Incorrect right-click context menu being in the Mail Toolbar search field
- Crash occurring when trying to edit two links in mail compose at once
- Crash occurring while creating folders when no item is selected in the feed section
- Index sizes above 2 GB that have negative values in the mail panel window
- Issues with the mail panel context menu when only using feeds
- Account does not loading on startup if the signature is wrong
- Showing feeds when showing a mail account (show messages from)

# Security
* Fixed
- Removed support for "javascript:" URLs in CSS -o-link values, to make it easier for sites to filter untrusted CSS.
- Fixed an issue where large form inputs could allow execution of arbitrary code, as reported by Jordi Chancel
- Fixed an issue which made it possible to carry out clickjacking attacks against internal opera: URLs.
- Fixed issues which allowed web pages to gain limited access to files on the user's computer.
- Fixed an issue where email passwords were not immediately deleted when deleting private data.
- Fixed an issue which could cause the wrong executable to be used to display a downloaded file in its folder

felix
2011-01-27, 08:45
- Removed the close button on tabs that are not selected
LOLFTW :eyespin: That's a really stupid change...

sneaker
2011-01-27, 09:08
I still get close buttons on all tabs. Or what's the definition of "not selected"?

felix
2011-01-27, 10:07
Same here. Maybe it's for non-windows operating systems.

cyberbeing
2011-01-29, 02:45
So apparently Mozilla will speed up development of Firefox and people can expect to see Firefox 5.0 a few months after the release of 4.0, which is due by the end of February.

I believe his quote is being misinterpreted. He was trying to say that some blockers could wait for a Firefox 4 point release, which could appear in a few months, or even wait for Firefox 5. In other words, release Firefox 4.0 now with a few outstanding blockers. In a few months Mozilla could push out a Firefox 4 point release fixing most important blockers they skipped. Other blockers could just be pushed out to Firefox 5. They want to increase the release frequency of official builds containing fixes and improvements, not necessarily the speed of Firefox 5 development.

monster
2011-01-29, 03:03
I believe his quote is being misinterpreted. He was trying to say that some blockers could wait for a Firefox 4 point release, which could appear in a few months, or even wait for Firefox 5. In other words, release Firefox 4.0 now with a few outstanding blockers. In a few months Mozilla could push out a Firefox 4 point release fixing most important blockers they skipped. Other blockers could just be pushed out to Firefox 5. They want to increase the release frequency of official builds containing fixes and improvements, not necessarily the speed of Firefox 5 development. In terms of Firefox 5, I believe this is the relevant quote (http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.planning/browse_thread/thread/3d6a265b886448cd#): Cast a colder eye on your blockers. Some of them can wait for a dot release or Firefox 5 that I do believe will be only months after 4 comes out. We are going to a fast release cycle. It serves our users better. To do that we have to get this touch and go done with Firefox 4.

cyberbeing
2011-01-29, 03:09
Yep, that was the quote I was referring to in my post.

monster
2011-01-29, 03:14
Well, from that quote, he does seem to imply that we might see version 5 only months after the release of 4, which would be a much faster release than 4 has been. Of course that doesn't mean there won't be any point release before that.

cyberbeing
2011-01-29, 03:29
First you need to consider the context. Firefox 4 release is late. It keeps being delayed by blocking bugs which need fixing. He saying to forget about fixing those bugs, so they can get Firefox 4 out the door. Some bugs could get fixed in a Firefox 4 point release, others in Firefox 5 (very normal for Mozilla to do this).

The next problem was he basically combined two separate thoughts into a single sentence, which led to confusion.

It should read like:
Some of them can wait for a dot release or Firefox 5. I believe we can fix more blockers and push out a new build in a few months. We are going to a fast release cycle.

Mozilla has usually taken a year to release even dot releases of Firefox. Now he is suggesting releasing a dot release in a few months. That would be considered a fast release cycle for Mozilla.

monster
2011-01-29, 03:45
The next problem was he basically combined two separate thoughts into a single sentence, which led to confusion.

It should read like:
Some of them can wait for a dot release or Firefox 5. I believe we can fix more blockers and push out a new build in a few months. We are going to a fast release cycle. That's one possible interpretation, but not the only one.

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but the way that particular sentence was written, it has an equal or better chance of talking about version 5 being released months after 4 rather than a point release.

At least, that looks to be the plan. There could still be problems and we might just get a point release anyway.


As for the context, I believe we can both agree that they're trying to have a faster release cycle, be it a point or a whole number release.

cyberbeing
2011-01-29, 04:33
I would normally be all for the easy interpenetration if it wasn't for the fact that Firefox 5 doesn't even exist yet. No code branch, no concept, no nothing. Combine that with Mozilla's slow release schedule of the past, and you'll see why releasing a major version of in a 'few months' is completely unrealistic and impossible. Beta testing alone takes a few months.

Firefox 1.0 November 9, 2004
Firefox 1.5 Beta 1 September 9, 2005
Firefox 1.5 November 29, 2005
Firefox 2.0 Beta 1 July 12, 2006
Firefox 2.0 October 24, 2006
Firefox 3.0 Beta 1 November 19, 2007
Firefox 3.0 June 17, 2008
Firefox 3.5 Beta 1 October 14, 2008
Firefox 3.5 June 30, 2009
Firefox 3.6 Beta 1 October 30, 2009
Firefox 3.6 January 21, 2010
Firefox 4.0 Beta 1 July 6, 2010
Firefox 4.0 Hopefully February 2011

You can't magically turn 2-4 years of development time into few months. Just expect something like Firefox 4.1 in a few months, which alone would be 4x faster than normal.

If they decide to rename Firefox 4.1 as Firefox 5 with no new features or design, so be it. A new major version every few months?!?! We would have Firefox 8 by the end of 2011. :heh:

monster
2011-01-29, 04:39
I would normally be all for the easy interpenetration if it wasn't for the fact that Firefox 5 doesn't even exist yet. No code branch, no concept, no nothing. Combine that with Mozilla's slow release schedule of the past, and you'll see why releasing a major version of in a 'few months' is completely unrealistic and impossible. Beta testing alone takes a few months.

Firefox 1.0 November 9, 2004
Firefox 1.5 Beta 1 September 9, 2005
Firefox 1.5 November 29, 2005
Firefox 2.0 Beta 1 July 12, 2006
Firefox 2.0 October 24, 2006
Firefox 3.0 Beta 1 November 19, 2007
Firefox 3.0 June 17, 2008
Firefox 3.5 Beta 1 October 14, 2008
Firefox 3.5 June 30, 2009
Firefox 3.6 Beta 1 October 30, 2009
Firefox 3.6 January 21, 2010
Firefox 4.0 Beta 1 July 6, 2010
Firefox 4.0 Hopefully February 2011

You can't magically turn 2-4 years of development time into few months. Just expect something like Firefox 4.1 in a few months which alone would be 4x faster development. Yeah, that's why I said in my first post that I hope they know what they're doing. Their track record doesn't really inspire confidence.

Although if they were following in Chrome's footsteps, there might not be a lot of new features between 4 and 5. That would certainly make it easier for them. If they decide to rename Firefox 4.1 as Firefox 5 with no new features or design, so be it. A new major version every few months?!?! We would have Firefox 8 by the end of 2011. :heh: Well, it wouldn't be the first time for a rename. I believe 4 used to be 3.7.

cyberbeing
2011-01-29, 05:19
You're slightly missing the point I was trying to make with my sarcasm.

We are going to a fast release cycle. It serves our users better.
This is the only noteworthy piece of information from that quote. A faster release cycle is completely within the realm of reason. Mozilla would only be hurting themselves if they destroyed the significance of major version numbers like 5.0 which historically followed Gecko rendering engine enhancements. The important thing for Mozilla is just getting 4.x class releases out more frequently. That serves users better. Having minor updates renamed as major updates hurts users and Mozilla.

felix
2011-01-29, 06:35
They may be cutting backward compatibility for the sake of more standards compliance. If they do that, yes they can turn years into months, it would also explain the 4 to 5 comment, as open source projects typically reserve major version numbers for compatibility breaking changes. The "serves our users better" could be interpreted as "we're dumping the age old baggage and support for crap standards" (for the sake of making the web a better place).

That said, I've downloaded the last beta version a few days ago. It's such a shameless copy of opera it's not even funny, and amazingly the font hinting still sucks - what exactly are they using?

cyberbeing
2011-01-29, 07:06
What backward compatibility and standards are you referring to?

felix
2011-01-29, 08:03
I wasn't referring to any one in particular...

cyberbeing
2011-01-29, 08:33
What backward compatibility and standards are you referring to?I wasn't referring to any one in particular...

So there are many now? I can't think of even one thing in Firefox which fits your description:
They may be cutting backward compatibility for the sake of more standards compliance. If they do that, yes they can turn years into months

Please give an example, any example, of a backward compatibility which can be cut from Firefox, which would improve standards compliance, and save Mozilla large amounts of development time at the same time. You must have had something in mind since you posted that.

felix
2011-01-29, 09:52
So there are many now?Man you're really really dense today. As I'm trying to tell you, I'm not talking/thinking of any particular one! as in none! :heh: (literally)

They could re-invent their entire user interface system for what its worth, or dump all their -moz- extensions that have no equivalent w3 standard (draft or otherwise) in the idea of better supporting standards and cleaning part of the mess where they share responsibility for. I'm sure after years of development there are plenty of things they would consider "it would have been better if it was designed this way". I refuse to believe they are so special there is not a single thing they would change. The problem is right now anything they change would result in (a lot of) stuff breaking (a good bulk of it being in extensions), hence yours (and others) belief there's nothing better - since god forbid they leap forward too much. As a consequence the only things they've been doing since 1.0 is just adding little things here, and little things there (synchronization, few extra features like personas, spell checking, etc) and the API changes were mostly mandatory changes that did not break much. FF is possibly one of the most passive browsers out there. If we were to ignore their version numbering, and do a independent one based on changes, firefox would be at around 1.6 now.

Re-writing something (don't confuse it with starting from zero) takes substantially less time then it took to create it initially (provided it is done by the same team). Re-writing also makes a lot of things much much simpler, in particular adding new features and fixing/enhancing old ones, since there's no "backwards compatibility" to worry about, as re-writes result in a new major version. Developers also now have a far better overview of the code, so the overall structure of the code is much more elegant and efficient, as well as much more flexible, since there is now a understanding of how the code is used, as well as real world use-cases which can be deduce from the old code base. Personally when I write code (that is not a script) I do a few passes, after I'm finished writing and have put it to use, where I refactor it into better code. This takes very very little of my time but almost always smooths out the bumps from the initial design. Same thing applies for any kind of software on any scale, the bigger the rewrite the bigger the bumps you can smooth out. In addition, development now moves from the re-write forward, so anything that came before doesn't have to be a concern for development anymore, resulting in faster turn-around for the next few versions. It is the same principle as with a house of cards, sometimes you can go higher by starting over and using what you've learned last time, rather then attempting to add to the huge unstable mountain you've created.

With that point, regarding 5 coming really really soon after, it is possible (albeit currently improbable) they might have 4 as the standard upgrade (which supports the old stuff), and 5 as the new rewrite for "firefox", and maintain them both for a while until 5 gets enough momentum (ie. ported extensions, themes, etc), similar to how some other software projects work.

But, I have no intimate knowledge of the mozzila code base and the current roadmap, and from where I'm standing seems you don't either, so everything is just blind guessing at this point, hence why I would prefer we didn't have any such elaborate discussions. Kthxbye.

monster
2011-01-29, 17:51
Mozilla would only be hurting themselves if they destroyed the significance of major version numbers like 5.0 which historically followed Gecko rendering engine enhancements. The important thing for Mozilla is just getting 4.x class releases out more frequently. That serves users better. Having minor updates renamed as major updates hurts users and Mozilla. Maybe so, but it certainly hasn't hurt Chrome. Look, I'm not saying that's what they'll do, it's just one possibility of what they might do if they indeed plan on releasing 5 only months after 4. (And by the way, months here doesn't necessarily mean 2-3, it could be 5-7 or even 9-11, which should still be plenty of time for some significant improvement while still being a faster release.)

monster
2011-02-03, 07:26
There are now two Microsoft add-ons, one for Firefox (http://www.interoperabilitybridges.com/html5-extension-for-wmp-plugin) and one for Chrome (http://www.interoperabilitybridges.com/wmp-extension-for-chrome), available on Windows 7 to play H.264-encoded videos on HTML5 pages.

Renegade334
2011-02-10, 16:02
Microsoft IE9 Build 9.0.8080.16413 Release Candidate:

Download from MS. (http://windows.microsoft.com/ie9)

New features and overhauls here. (http://www.beautyoftheweb.com/#/new_in_rc) (warning: site can be slow to load)

I'll probably dl it once it goes RTW ("release to web", as opposed to "release to manufacturing") just so that I can finally get rid of IE8 (and enjoy better CSS2.1/3 compliance), but it sounds promising. I'm glad they finally decided to give the option to relocate all tabs to a separate row under the address bar, I wasn't really keen on having such a small space reserved for the tabs (I can have up to twenty/thirty of them open when I'm really busy)...but on the other side, I'm not sure I like the removal of the menu bar. Find it unnecessarily complicated, but I actually like having a menu bar right on top of my address bar...but oh wait, there is an option to toggle the menu bar back into existence. Phew. Pinning homepages to the Super/taskbar sounds nice, but I'm not sure I'll use it - the speed dial is already good enough for me; it should btw be noted that IE9 now supports multiple homepage startup loading.

For those who have been bemoaning the withdrawal of h.264 support from other browsers like Chrome, IE9 still supports it out of the box, along with WebM (though...a separate, third-party VP8 codec is required for that).

Performance-wise, MS claims it is now the fastest browser in the SunSpider benchmark, though this, I'm afraid, remains subjective. Benchmarks are influenced by a very good number of technical wildcards (number of add-ons installed, RAM, CPU, antivirus running/not, HDD defragged/not, etc), so I'm sure this claim will be disputed the next day - or confirmed depending on whose side you're on, which PC config you're rocking, etc. Yeah, benchmarking is as flaky as it gets. Just a few stats, though: IE9RC is 35% faster than IE9 Beta and 20 times faster than IE8. Much of this performance can be attributed to the new Chakra engine, which has been tailored to patterns found throughout the most popular sites like Facebook, Gmail, etc. They've paid a lot of attention to JavaScript closures and OOP patterns - to the point that IE9RC can now boast up to 250 JavaScript callbacks-per-second, whereas previous versions like IE7, IE8 or even IE9 Beta could only climb up to 64. Perhaps not very important for some people, but the MS team has also increased the size limit of the Temporary Internet Files folder from 50mb to 250mb.

On the security side, they've introduced one of the first (FF4 will boast it, too, from what I heard through the grapevine) tracking protection lists and the ability to filter ActiveX controls on a site-per-site basis. InPrivate browsing has also been extended to addresses pinned to the taskbar.


Now waiting for the RTW (which apparently is extremely close) - I'm still using Opera, but whenever I have to code HTML pages, I still use IE as benchmark/testbed, even if it means having to make CSS concessions and/or further JavaScript/AJAX tailoring.

monster
2011-02-10, 16:32
Some initial Tracking Protection Lists (http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Browser/TrackingProtectionLists/Default.html) for IE9 RC.

felix
2011-02-10, 18:33
Yeah, benchmarking is as flaky as it gets.There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

All browsers are pretty "fast enough" already; to the point your internet connection and the servers you're connecting–to make a load more difference — your cache as well. Most sites that load slow, just load slow, it's not the browser rendering them slow, it's your internet sucking — and ok probably the site's creator trying to suck your internet dry. ¶ People obsess too much over this marketing nonsense, they just need to work dammit! work with everything! I'm sure half the articles on this will just read IE9 +30% faster blah-blah — basically meaning pages load 100 miliseconds faster, which to put into perspective, is 1/3rd the time it takes one to blink. And — even if — there was this magical rendering problem, it's not like hardware improvements isn't just going to slowly chip away at it anyhow. Oh if only hardware could munch away at our standards problem too…

Nochgo
2011-02-11, 00:01
Wait, Chrome is like a spyware?! How so? I might have to switch back to Firefox...

cyberbeing
2011-02-11, 01:50
Chrome isn't spyware, but it does collect anonymous data about searches done through Chrome. It also forcibly installs an auto-update service which is always running in the background on your computer.

If they decide to rename Firefox 4.1 as Firefox 5 with no new features or design, so be it. A new major version every few months?!?! We would have Firefox 8 by the end of 2011. :heh:

Ship Firefox 4, 5, 6 and 7 in the 2011 calendar year (https://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=Firefox%2FRoadmap)
:heh::heh::heh:

Ongoing discussion about this on mozillazine. (http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2096753)

Now an Ars Technica article as well (http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2011/02/is-mozillas-2011-roadmap-unrealistically-ambitious.ars)

Renegade334
2011-03-04, 02:55
Just a few news in the browser world...

- Microsoft India apparently (and inadvertently, to boot) tweeted that IE9 will go RTW on March 24, which is good news since the RC is solid enough as it is (at this point, pretty much everything under the hood is squared away). On my rig it's even more stable than the latest Opera build, which makes it a good, snappy alternative.

- Opera 11.10 "Barracuda" (yes, they just realized giving code names was a cool thing to do) just entered alpha stage, boasting an evolved speed dial system which is actually comparable to IE9's in that it displays the most frequently typed URLs in the address bar rather than the usual list of user-defined shortcuts. For my part, it seems I'm struggling with some stability issues, probably caused by Flash. Crashes aren't frequent but they do happen every once in a while, much to my annoyance (the thing freezes upon opening a new page, then I'm greeted by that thrice-accursed bug report window...which ALWAYS keeps telling me that there is no fix or documentation for the bug I've just encountered).

- Mozilla Firefox 4.0 just went live with Beta 12, which should be the last installment before the RC build and then the final version. Latest changes include stability fixes and hardware acceleration optimization for plugins such as Flash.

sneaker
2011-03-04, 05:19
- Opera 11.10 "Barracuda" (yes, they just realized giving code names was a cool thing to do) just entered alpha stage, boasting an evolved speed dial system which is actually comparable to IE9's in that it displays the most frequently typed URLs in the address bar rather than the usual list of user-defined shortcuts.

I don't get it. What's the difference compared to 11.01?

Renegade334
2011-03-04, 06:45
It should be obvious - in 11.01 you can customize the speed dial and set the shortcuts yourself. In 11.10 Opera collects your most visited webpages and offers shortcuts to these addresses all by itself.

felix
2011-03-04, 07:20
Wasn't the speed dial customized thingy based on a older build?

sneaker
2011-03-04, 08:24
It should be obvious - in 11.01 you can customize the speed dial and set the shortcuts yourself. In 11.10 Opera collects your most visited webpages and offers shortcuts to these addresses all by itself.

When I click on an empty speed dial short cut it already offers me my most visited sites. Or do you mean that the speed dial will automatically fill empty speed dial fields? And what does this have to do with the address bar? :confused:

Renegade334
2011-03-04, 10:49
It will fill it in automatically.

As for the address bar, that's where it gets the said 'most visited' URLs - whether you manually type in a new one or open an existing one straight from a bookmark.

IE9 does the opposite of what Opera 11 does right now:
- Opera offers user-defined shortcuts. You manually configure the speed dial by selecting URLs that already figure in your bookmarks, currently open tabs or recently visited pages. It does nothing on its own.
- IE9 automatically creates a speed dial based on the pages you've been noted to visit quite frequently. You cannot edit it, unless you want to manually delete one of IE9's recommendations.

sneaker
2011-03-05, 05:49
I see. Let's see how long it takes for the final to be released.

Renegade334
2011-03-14, 23:30
Microsoft Internet Explorer 9 Build 9.0.8112.16421 Release to Web (RTW) goes live (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/internet-explorer/downloads/ie-9/worldwide-languages).

# Performance Improvements
* Improved JavaScript Engine Performance
* Dynamic GPU Usage
* Industry Leading Power Consumption Levels

# Even cleaner interface
* Improved Usability
* Tabs
* Pinned Sites

# Increased Privacy and Protection
* Tracking Protection Lists
* ActiveX Filtering
* Pinned Sites InPrivate

# Additional Standards Support
* CSS2D Transforms
* HTML5 Semantic Tag
* Geolocation
* WebM Support

Microsoft-y browser comparison chart: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/internet-explorer/products/ie-9/compare-browsers
Benchmarks, samples and other examples are available at the IE9 showcase site, http://www.beautyoftheweb.com, but a good rundown of IE9's features can be found here: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/internet-explorer/products/ie-9/features.

IE Addons are available at http://ieaddons.com/en/

Regardless of what people will say about IE like security (it took no less than three security holes to hack through IE8 at the Pwn2Own 2011 - gotta love the name, it sounds so serious - software security convention, whereas it only took one and a couple seconds to totally rip Safari a new aperture), one thing is certain - it has won the edge in terms of hardware acceleration. It comes at a price, though - it has fully embraced the NT 6.1+ kernel and has left XP behind, being only compatible with Vista SP2, Windows Server 2008 and Windows 7 operating systems. More than 40 million betas and release candidates have been downloaded, bearing testimony to how popular it is, since it became obvious that MS is now taking a more than active side in embracing Web standards, HTML5 and other forerunner technologies like tracking list protection, hardware acceleration, etc.

It is MS' most standards-compliant version of IE yet, with a 95% score (http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/5438/msie9rtwacid3.jpg) on the ACID3 test (http://acid3.acidtests.org/) (support for the 5% remaining percent was deliberately withheld, since they concern technology that is either still in R&D or has been asked by the developers themselves, to be withdrawn from the ACID3 test battery).


Other browser news: Opera 11.10 is still in alpha stage, though it appears the latest build was...particularly unstable (should be normal for an alpha, though I hoped they would actually concentrate on stability...but I guess it will only happen when the browser will go beta). This version will include a smart speed dial (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Opera-11-10-Barracuda-Alpha-Build-2033-Now-with-Intelligent-Speed-Dial-Thumbnails-189042.shtml). I'm still getting crashes every once in a while, but after some consideration, I'm not totally sure I can chalk all of them up to Flash not playing nice. The Bug Report system remains as unhelpful as ever - seems it has documentation about the issues at all.
Core:
· CORE-37160 (Fix for crash when extensions need HTTP Auth after restart)
· CORE-34650 (Memory leaks caused by missing call to deallocate() on the scriptable object)
· CORE-37136 (Enable Cookies DNS Check is default true, should be false)
· CORE-37060 (Deleting a Wand Password crashes Opera)
· CORE-36823 (100% cpu usage when installing application cache on developers.whatwg.org)
· CORE-36808 (developers.whatwg.org crashes opera)
· CORE-36805 ("work offline" conflicts with "application cache")
· CORE-36243 (IFRAME with scrolling=no interferes with scrollwheel/keyboard scrolling of parent document)
· CORE-34738 (Some sites flicker when loading plugins)
· CORE-27392 (Windowed plugin position not updated when moved in overflowed container)
· CORE-36871 (Application cache not detected for explicit cache entries when loaded outside of the application cache)

Desktop (general):
· Improved strings and translations
· DSK-328884 (Content blocker crashes when Opera Link is enabled)
· DSK-313944 ("Ctrl+Shift+V" opens in a new background tab)
· DSK-326198 (Enter when composing HTML mails sometimes has large line spacing)

Desktop (Speed Dial):
· DSK-330681 (Crash related to the new logo finder)
· DSK-330693 (Entering addresses that start with a number opens the corresponding Speed Dial instead)
· DSK-329199 (Added Speed Dial entry is not focused)
· DSK-329522 (Opera hangs or crashes when editing/deleting Speed Dial cells in multiple windows at the same time)
· DSK-329877 (OK button should be focused in add speed dialog when text has been entered in the urlfield)
· DSK-330030 (It should be possible to set Speed Dial to use 6-7 columns)
· DSK-330319 (Page title is shown on top of thumbnail when hovering background tabs with thumbnail previews enabled)
· DSK-330339 (Clicking on the "100% Zoom" button in zoom dropdown doesn't update the Speed Dial thumbnail)
· DSK-330363 (When adding a speed dial, a fuzzy plus icon appears inside in the thumbnail)
· DSK-330443 (Crash on removing an entry being edited)
· DSK-330472 (Opera crashes if a lot of speeddials are added [and background image is changed])
· DSK-330520 (Make add-new-dial separately skinable)
· DSK-330530 (Zooming with + or - with focus on the Speed Dial page zooms any page opened from that Speed Dial tab)
· DSK-330555 (Opera crashes on exit after drag/dropping a Speed Dial thumbnail onto desktop)
· DSK-330624 (Opera crashes after deleting thumbnail that was dragged onto status bar)
· DSK-330362 (Configure speed dial dialogue - align the 'OK' and 'cancel' to the right of the dialog box)
· DSK-330361 (Configure speed dial dialogue - remove the cross button (close) top right)
· DSK-330360 (Change 'Configure Speed Dial' button to use custom skin element)
· DSK-329976 (Speed dial zoom level button displays wrong value if going back from webpage)
· DSK-330327 (Dragging a speed dial outside the tab changes speed dial positions)
· DSK-330520 (Correct Speed Dial background color on Mac)
· DSK-330629 (Update Speed Dial styling on Mac)

Windows:
· DSK-330717 (Broken animations on Windows)
· DSK-330721 (Cannot create characters that require dead keys on Windows)

Smart Dial screenshot (http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/Opera-11-10-Barracuda-Alpha-Build-2033-Now-with-Intelligent-Speed-Dial-Thumbnails-3.jpg/)

Aside from that, it seems that the Mozilla guys have decided that one Release Candidate is enough for v4.0 and there is no need to compile another new version. Which means that the final version will be available at the end of the month.

Dist
2011-03-16, 05:37
The question remains .. Why use IE when you can use Firefox/Opera/Chrome ? Even with new builds and whatever, it's still inferior.

Konakaga
2011-03-16, 12:30
The question remains .. Why use IE when you can use Firefox/Opera/Chrome ? Even with new builds and whatever, it's still inferior.

The improvements are obivously just done to help the silly some 50~60% of people whom only ever used IE as a web browser :p.

monster
2011-03-16, 16:39
If you feel that you really need a feature or two that the latest IE for your version of Windows does not provide, then you can always download another browser that meets your needs. Otherwise, there's nothing silly about using something that just works for you.

For my browsing needs on Windows, IE is not inferior in any significant way to other browsers. And I've used Firefox, Opera, Safari, and Chrome.

Konakaga
2011-03-16, 16:46
If you feel that you really need a feature or two that the latest IE for your version of Windows does not provide, then you can always download another browser that meets your needs. Otherwise, there's nothing silly about using something that just works for you.

Aside from the fact that IE takes an average of 60 days to fix security flaws, while Mozilla takes average of 8 days to fix security flaws with Firefox. IE still fails to offer support of NoScript or an equivalent feature, and it's a near must have for browsing the internet in my opinion.

If IE actually handles fixing flaws in a more timely manner and supported noscript then it could be a decent browser.

monster
2011-03-16, 16:48
... in my opinion. Exactly so.

felix
2011-03-16, 16:52
Konakaga, have you tried playing with the settings. I don't use IE, but as I recall you can just set the security level to paranoid and it will basically do the same thing noscript does.

Konakaga
2011-03-16, 17:14
Konakaga, have you tried playing with the settings. I don't use IE, but as I recall you can just set the security level to paranoid and it will basically do the same thing noscript does.

I haven't personally used IE at home at all for a quite sometime because my laptop won't allow me to install IE 9 [or even 8 for that matter] for some reason or another and not really interested in using IE 7 at all :p. So no, I haven't tried to use those settings to see if it does offer more security or not, since on the school computers settings are much more restricted I can't really try the setting on them.

Nihokon
2011-03-16, 23:49
but as I recall you can just set the security level to paranoid and it will basically do the same thing noscript does.

I don't use IE too so I'm not sure, but does it really do the same thing like noscript? I mean, with blocking specific scripts and all?

demonix
2011-03-17, 08:16
The improvements are obivously just done to help the silly some 50~60% of people whom only ever used IE as a web browser :p.

Well those numbers may drop for those still using windows XP since IE9 is only available for those using vista and 7 (unless those people are dumb enough to keep using IE7 or 8 ).

felix
2011-03-17, 08:52
(unless those people are dumb enough to keep using IE7 or 8).Yeah, like that's very unlikely… :rolleyes:

monster
2011-03-17, 09:19
Usage of IE6 and IE7 is on the decline regardless of whether or not IE9 is available on XP. Meanwhile, IE8 is still very much usable with the web today and in the near future.

demonix
2011-03-18, 09:35
Usage of IE6 and IE7 is on the decline regardless of whether or not IE9 is available on XP. Meanwhile, IE8 is still very much usable with the web today and in the near future.

Well there are some sites that have stopped supporting IE6 so there would be a decline in that anyway.

Well I installed IE9 on my laptop and thus far I'm not too impressed since the java system that the 64-bit version is useless (log into yahoo mail and you'll find that the web messenger doesn't work) and the interface is absolutely hopeless.

monster
2011-03-18, 10:13
Well I installed IE9 on my laptop and thus far I'm not too impressed since the java system that the 64-bit version is useless (log into yahoo mail and you'll find that the web messenger doesn't work) So you're not impressed with IE9 because 64-bit Java and/or Yahoo web messenger doesn't work? Then perhaps the problem isn't really with IE9. And it's probably better to use the default 32-bit version anyway. and the interface is absolutely hopeless. In what way?

Dist
2011-03-18, 16:02
Exactly so.

It's a fact that IE has security flaws though. You're putting your computer on constant risk by using that piece of crap :x

aeriolewinters
2011-03-18, 18:48
It's a fact that IE has security flaws though. You're putting your computer on constant risk by using that piece of crap :x
Actually, IE9 Runs faster than Chrome right now; looking at a fresh build on chrome and the RTM IE9, I'm picking IE right now because it's light right now, and meshes well with Windows 7's superbar. Also those who are afraid to use IE, especially 9 are either misinformed or often relying on heresay, IE9 has been a good browser ever since beta.

Renegade334
2011-03-19, 02:59
It's a fact that IE has security flaws though. You're putting your computer on constant risk by using that piece of crap :x

*Cough* Have you even actually tried it or are you just parroting outdated techno-gossip?

If you're talking about ActiveX then any browser that makes allowances for this form of technology is a virtual deathtrap, especially if they were deliberately designed with a malicious mindset. Furthermore, it is easy to adjust security settings and prevent them from becoming digital ratholes on your machine. IE9 even introduced ActiveX Filtering, which disables those objects every time a page tries to declare them - but that also means you can't watch Flash videos either, because the Adobe plugin comes in the form of an ActiveX. The security interface is, I concede, dinkier and less user-friendly than on Opera or FF, but it IS there. People are just too lazy or ignorant to take a look at it.

As for security flaws, you might actually be surprised. A lot of security firms (even Alwil - the guys who created Avast) actually consider IE8 as one of the safest browsers there is out there. It actually catches more social engineering malware than other brands and uses a sandboxing feature known as 'Protected Mode' - which denies write access to the rest of the operating system. Opera, who doesn't use any sandboxing (unlike Chrome and IE7/8/9), is actually more likely to let something pass than IE or Chrome.

At the Pwn2Own 2011 convention, where software security companies attempt to crack browsers in order to take control of a laptop (the winner receives the cracked laptop and a financial reward) within a specific timeframe, it took several hours and no less than three different security holes to take over IE8 on W7 x64. In contrast, Safari got hacked in just a few minutes by a French firm with a single drive-by attack using an intentionally badly coded webpage. As for Chrome...nobody bothered about it (two firms are signed up for the attempt to hack it, but neither showed up at the designated hour, leaving the browser unhacked...but also unproven)(Google nevertheless had to patch Chrome afterwards when a WebKit-using Blackberry got hacked, which means that they probably shared the same vulnerability). It is unsure as to whether IE9 would fall prey to the same trick, since they added additional security layers such as DEP/NX (Data Execution Prevention / No eXecute), ASLR (Address Space Layout Randomization) and SafeSEH (Safe Structured Exception Handling).


My reasons for using more of IE9 are motivated by practicality - my main browser is Opera but unfortunately ever since v10.54 it's been plagued with stability bugs and every once in a while, it crashes on me, sometimes leading to frustrating data loss or interruption of ongoing activities. And while I first believed Flash to be the infuriating little culprit behind those mishaps, there have been crashes on pages that were not Flash-intensive or didn't even feature such animations...and I very much doubt the other plugins are to blame either. Which means that every once in a while, I use IE9. It also helps that the rendering is very snappy and at times it appears to graphically outperform other browsers thanks to hardware acceleration.

As for Firefox, the only reason I use it is for the add-ons (Embedded Objects, NoScript, AdBlock Plus). Not for the browser itself - it doesn't have any game-changing feature that would make me jump ships.



On a different topic, Opera 11.10 Build 2048 just entered beta stage. Here's the massive changelog:

# User interface
* Improvements
- Added Speed Dial animations
- Improvements made to the Speed Dial flow layout
- Added button to configure Speed Dial
- Added ability to set the number of Speed Dial columns (automatic by default)
- Speed Dial can now be zoomed
- Added a new dialog when adding/editing Speed Dials
- Now possible to add a custom title to Speed Dials, through the new add/edit dialog
- Added feature discoverability improvements
- Improved the bookmarks bar skin
- Use black underline for IME candidates
- Added the UAC shield to the auto-update install button
- "Save file" dialog is now using the new style dialog in Windows Vista/7
- Updated styling for internal pages, and search suggestions on error pages
- Removed "Yes/No" choice from the intranet toolbar; made the suggested url clickable
- Prevent third party applications from hijacking searches and other customizations in Opera
- Windows installer now having an option to remove a profile when uninstalling
- Improved strings and translations
- Configure Speed Dial dialogue: remove the cross button (close) at top right
* Fixes
- Wand corruption occurring when changing master password with specific wand data
- Auto-complete not remembering https protocol
- Crash when changing to an alternate stylesheet via a keyboard shortcut
- Tab becoming unpinned after opening the Save As dialog
- Generated feeds page still using -o-text-overflow:ellipsis
- Wrong background and border color occurring for dropdowns for high contrast operating system themes
- Overlaid page information window being incorrectly displayed on blank pages
- Opera using the latest session for startup instead of the one it is supposed to use
- A ghost window is created when restarting with a floating Panel
- Edit functions not working from the Opera menu button
- Floating panels with the Info panel being activated are covered with a white box on restart
- Go back to Speed Dial using right click-left click loads the start page
- Check marks being inconsistent in View > Encoding
- Potential crash occurring when deleting private data
- Address field misbehaving when changing focus
- Ctrl + Shift + V opening in a new background tab
- New Home url not upgrading when the old url is written in preferences
- Paste&go into an empty tab bar only opens a new empty tab
- History being lost for Speed Dial tabs
- In auto-update, a pending auto-update should not start if the user has manually upgraded Opera in the meantime
- Opera does not get an updated browser.js or override_downloaded.ini for the new version of Opera immediately after auto-updating
- When auto-updating, do not install old updates
- Crash when saving a bookmarks file
- Not being able to connect directly to an Opera Unite instance
- Bookmarks in the bookmarks menu not being able to be right-clicked
- In auto-update, ask before installing an update
- Prevent Opera from opening an infinite number of tabs when a MIME type is set to use Opera's executable as an external application
- Menu button being misplaced in a restored window when Tab bar is set to wrap to multiple lines
- Opera's tooltip appearing in front of another application's tooltip, when a hovered element has a mouse event listener
- Multiple lines getting selected in Advanced Preferences - Storage
- A cut string in the startup dialog in some languages
- Search engines with non-ASCII characters in the address not working
- Rocker gesture actions being displayed in the mouse gesture UI
- www.http// added to urls when urls are opened from auto complete dropdown in the url field
- Crash when pressing Save in the internal source viewer
- In Image Properties, exposure time being sometimes slightly off
- Pasting copied cells from Excel into body of text/html compose body inserts table markup without opening and closing table tags (StartFragment and EndFragment)
- Picasa not starting properly when called by Opera
- Opera's submenus not appearing on hover
- NPAPI plug-ins not being detected
- Windows Classic native skin uses black text on dark progress bar in the address field
- Mouse panning stops working
- Drag and drop to the Attachments field opening files in Opera on Windows
- Transfers disappearing when closing a private tab
- Zoom in shortcut (Ctrl + Plus) not working on keyboard locales where you need a shift modifier to type a plus
- Crash with changing icon extension on extender menu
- Missing privacy checkboxes for extension being opened in dev mode
- Allow cancelling onkeydown for all keys (not just arrow keys, backspace, etc.)
- Plug-ins causing Opera to not shut down
- Overlay dialogs having broken alpha transparency on close animation
- Speed Dial fixes:
> Speed Dial background image becomes enabled after every Opera upgrade
> Zooming when typing + or - in the Speed Dial search field
> Make the Add Speed Dial dialog skinnable
> Let sites reload Speed Dials using the "Preview-refresh: seconds" HTTP, or <meta http-equiv="preview-refresh" content="seconds">
> Using thumbnail friendly content when available
> Opera hanging or crashing when editing/deleting Speed Dial cells in multiple windows at the same time
> Page title being shown on top of thumbnail when hovering background tabs with thumbnail previews enabled
> Duplicate dials occurring on upgrade
- Wininstaller fixes:
> Failure to modify the registry named Software\Classes\Opera.HTML\FriendlyTypeName; error code: 39 or 40
> When the installer cannot find a shortcut for a second Opera install, the installer bails out
> Error code 14 occurring on installing/upgrading
> Respecting the language choice made in the installer and change Opera's language
> Error on installing Opera; error code 89
> Error 76 when upgrading from Opera 11.00 to Opera 11.01
> Error code 17 when upgrading from MSI
> Installer fails if it cannot check if a shortcut exists or not; error 68
> Crash when upgrading to Opera 11.01
> Wrong language being used after autoupdate to Opera 11.01
> Uninstaller randomly freezing
> Cancel button being active in autoupdate dialog when upgrading from MSI to new installer
> Uninstaller not asking for reason for uninstalling
> Pixelated installer icon occurring on Windows 7 taskbar
> Back button missing from the Options page
> Opera sometimes failing to set itself as default when installing for current user
> Size of checkbox field being too small for a translation of the remove profile option

# Display and scripting
* Improvements
- Added support for image naturalWidth naturalHeight
- Moved the accesskey attribute to HTMLElement (HTML5)
- Implemented the W3C Web Open Font Format (WOFF)
- Added support for the BeforeCSS/AfterCSS events
- Added audio/x-midi to the list of MIDI MIME types
- Implemented mouseenter and mouseleave events from DOM3 Events
- Implemented onfocusin/onfocusout events
- Implemented the W3C CSS Viewports specification
- Added support to Opera extensions for debugging of isolated userjs
- Improved Opera spatial navigation on complex sites (like Facebook)
- Improved the image viewer
- Various improvements to Opera Turbo
- Updated strings and translations
* Fixes
- Cancelling onkeydown not also cancelling keypress
- onBlur attribute of an HTML form input field not triggering when focus moves to a different frame
- Opera not supporting multiple rels for LINK
- event.offsetX for mouse events returning "distance from previous whitespace" rather than "distance for target box origin"
- nbsp entity in form element value being submitted as space
- Mouse or keyboard scrolling should be allowed when scrolling=no is set on frame / iframe
- Empty selection must not have any ranges
- tBodies DOM 1 method returning nested tBodies
- Being unable to place the cursor in an empty selection
- .start returning 0 instead of 1 for <ol start="bogus">
- Plug-in object with display block not initializing until paint is triggered
- The input event being dispatched on cut
- xpath engine allowing only 100 predicates in xpath expressions
- prototype must be DontEnum for exposed DOM interfaces
- Incorrect scrolling in "find" when there are inline elements in preformatted text
- type set to the empty string does not load the style sheet
- window.CanvasPixelArray being undefined
- window.ImageData not being prototypable
- Inability to type @ in a transparent Flash text field
- body.background not being able to return full URL of the background image
- Accesskey clicking disabled buttons
- XMLHttpRequest specification being violated when calling send() from a non-opened state does not throw
- Applying vertical-align on an inline-block misplaces it if there is a positioned sibling
- Missing new-script event when scripts are in HTML attributes while working in Opera Dragonfly
- Bold fonts not being properly rendered when there is no bold font file available
- HTMLScriptElement.text shows source of external script, not element contents
- Selecting being broken when used in an upward direction
- self.location (in Web Workers) not taking redirects into account
- Skip collapsed text when extracting selected text and in document edit mode
- Inability to type in Flash text fields
- Thai word wrap not working
- Login problems with Java occurring when in www.sparebank1.no
- Default to "ask user" instead of doing nothing if a plug-in for a filetype is not available
- Seeking in a paused <video> should remove poster frame
- Entities thinsp, ensp, and emsp not being displayed correctly
- DOCTYPE not being generated correctly
- Streaming multiple, identical plug-in streams randomly fails
- <applet> ends up with type parameter after parsing
- scroll event not being fired on document
- Wrong value returned from offsetWidth, offsetHeight in DOMContentLoaded event
- Collapsed range not collapsing after being added to a selection
- Rule with no declarations missing in Opera Dragonfly
- Scrolling a block scrolls the plugin content
- Previous scroll position being restored after interacting with the page while reloading (after having gone back in history)
- Nested ternary operator failing during JIT
- Not waiting for layout if a script tries to read computed height and an external CSS is still loading
- Not being able to post comments or login to reuters.com
- Google virtual keyboard being broken; moving a position:fixed element up or left leaves artifacts
- Crash during a shutdown procedure
- onhashchange event property being on document instead of window
- browser.js failing if a User JavaScript file path does not exist
- Not being able to delete a list, only its contents, in a contentEditable / designMode document
- The player on libre.fm not working in Opera
- ce-html mime type not being handled by Opera (so the page is downloaded)
- Page being loaded from the cache after changing from a lower protocol to higher protocol
- eBuddy.com not working; script cannot read value correctly from a previously hidden textarea
- Document.onload not being fired when loading with async=false (Citibank Singapore Credit Cards Application Forms not visible)
- Opera not parsing WML files when content-type is missing
- Opera displaying the content of files that are served as application/octect-stream
- Using an anchor to determine correct position during mouse dragging
- usairways.com log-in not working if script assigns javascript: URLs to window.location; run them after current thread
- No change event occurring on hidden file input; photo upload broken on xanga.com
- Positioned child with top and bottom set not adjusting to a container's height
- Inability to remove contenteditable="false" content from inside a contenteditable="true" element
- Hash not being updated after a redirect
- Canvas shadowBlur with clipping causes artifacts and a crash
- A CSS string tokenization issue
- -o-transform does not recognize functions with whitespace occurring before arguments
- :active state being dropped if mouse is moved away from an element with the button being pressed
- Unchanged location.hash triggering onhashchange (location.hash = location.hash)
- Classes in content added via importNode not being recognized
- Operator '=' of XPath behaving incorrectly (case insensitive)
- Multiple files from one input not being handled by PHP due to multipart/mixed MIME with sub-parts for each file
- Crash on closing a tab with a plug-in
- Problem selecting origin and destination in the left combo menus; extending SELECT with select.length+=1 fails
- First scroll event being sent to the window instead of the scrollable area
- In Opera Dragonfly, sending the file name of user scripts through scope in OnNewScript
- Find in page not scrolling to show search hits in frames
- link.focus() not removing focus from the rich text editor
- Calling body.focus() on an editable body from a button onclick event fails
- Removing a widget cache folder just after widget uninstall
- 24sevenoffice.com webpage missing menues in Opera; element.children exists in XML documents, but is broken
- Landsend.de not allowing Opera to show its subordinate contents
- <video> containing poster not resizing
- <video> with broken poster not reverting to show the video
- Clicking a <button> fires a focus event and a blur event
- Opera spatial navigation on elements with overlapping rectangles and event handlers not descending in the tree
- Zooming in Opera Show mode causes incorrect scroll position
- Geolocation notifier not being shown again, once a window with a notifier is closed without answering
- hasProperty/hasMethod check not occurring before setting property/method on NPObject
- <video poster> not reappearing after calling load()
- In Opera Dragonfly, opera.scopeCreateClient(): onconnected callback never gets called when connected to a remote host
- Incorrect computed style for text-overflow
- Parsing of empty Geolocation reponse from Gelocation server (over IPv6)
- Double clicking on a content window while a HTTPS site is loading, loads the home page
- In Opera User preferences, "Allow Autofocus Form Element=0" should additionally disable handling focus sent on synthetic events
- Crash when handling a plugin event when a plug-in fails
- Server highlighting for urls containing ":" in a fragment
- Quirks mode parsing of color values on setting property
- Opera returning data for width and height attributes on <canvas> using getAttribute when they are unset or empty
- Admit cloning of object DAGs involving host objects
- input[type=color] accepting any input unlike date, datetime-local, number, week, month
- RegularExpressionLiterals not being re-evaluated to create new objects within a loop
- Text not being base-aligned in text areas
- When scrolling inside a scrollable container, enable the scrolled-to element to be outside of view
- Crash when clearing the undo/redo stack after typing in Hebrew
- Slowdown on hovering a document with positioned iframes with visibility: hidden
- Eval having an unnecessary hard limit of 64 imported variables
- Date header from server later being sent in an If-Range header
- relative position on a link or its parent disables clickability
- console.log not printing to the Error Console
- HTMLElement getting garbage collected, causing a custom property to cease existing on erlang.org
- Incorrect value being computed if there is a space character before a hash in a color definition
- Value being lost on setting the indexed property of an external plug-in object; vod.onet.pl player not loading
- Overflow hidden container being scrolled when clicking button
- Malware check not ignoring intranet URIs
- Several memory usage errors
- Opera freezing on some Turkish websites
- "Execute program" concluding a line of parameters in quotes
- Incorrect redrawing of a page when displaying the tooltip and scrolling
- Geolocation module initialisation taking too long to startup
- Failed repaint when removing fixed positioned element that overlaps body padding/margin
- Fixed positioned elements not invalidated properly when being removed
- Incorrect parsing of a JavaScript array literal
- Content with position: fixed and top placement not being hidden
- Top menu sometimes disappears when clicking buttons on Google docs
- Dynamically setting display:none not properly repainting a fixed-position descendant
- Setting ancestor to visibility:hidden not redrawing a position:fixed element (redrawing error on twitter.com)
- Cookies on localhost 127.0.0.1 not being returned by GetCookie (Cookie-Manager service)
- Pasting from right-click menu creates unformatted text inside formatted blocks with CKEditor
- Opera crashing while using spatial navigation on a rapidshare.com page
- HTML5 video crashes when files are being hosted on an FTP server
- document.write from a timed script clearing the page
- Doing location.replace on iframe and reading out iframe's document before load, fails on orkut.com
- Adding a command to get a resource id with an URL in the resource service for Opera DragonFly
- Many CSS3 cursors not displaying on Windows
- Crash when extensions need HTTP Auth after a restart
- Enable Cookies DNS Check default is set to true, should be false
- 100% cpu usage occurring when installing application cache on developers.whatwg.org
- Crash when loading developers.whatwg.org
- "work offline" conflicting with "application cache"
- Some sites flicker when loading plug-ins
- Application cache not being detected for explicit cache entries when loaded outside of the application cache
- UserJS code not running in extensions if page does not include a script tag
- Links in extension pages not working when trying to open extension-internal urls in new windows
- The extension background process reloading correctly and without crashing
- Extension pages being allowed to navigate to other extension-internal pages via the location object
- Extension-related windows with scriptless documents not being closed when the extension is disabled
- Widget Interface not being exposed on the UserJS side of extensions
- The console object in Web Workers not logging anything to the error console
- Tab urls exposed from extensions not including the url's fragment identifier
- Caret placement at line ends being broken in contentEditable <pre> tags; wrapped lines case that caused problems in M2
- The background process being allowed to navigate away from the extension's index.html
- Ease-in transition goes out of range when second transition overrides it near the end
- Crash when getting color from -o-skin

# Mail, news, chat
* Improvements
- Added support for phrase searching
- Improved CJK searches
- Improvements made to the panel, including a setting to disable automatic toggling
* Fixes
- Running javascript url even though it is being replaced by a form submit; an issue with Yandex Mail
- While surfing in a private window, Opera Mail links open in a non-private tab
- Not being able to change mail signature from HTML to plain text
- POP3 causing a crash on exit
- Mail label being created from "save search" also shows non-matching messages that are received after the label is created
- Sorting message list by label not working
- "Label As" submenu from the mail body context menu showing an empty label list
- Crash after opening the mail window in a separate tab
- "Sent" view under POP access point showing sent messages for all accounts that use the same SMTP server
- POP "Inbox" view not being updated after a restart
- Crash occurring on exit, with either POP or mailing list/feed folders
- "Saved search" labels being removed after a second restart
- IPv6 connection failures occurring on Mac, Linux, and FreeBSD
- Progress bar percentage going haywire when importing a large mbox
- Rounded corners on the "No message selected" Mail/Feeds page
- Opening a feed tab also opens the Mail panel
- Moving mouse in the new mail panel while in drag state not scrolling the super scrollbar
- Hovering over collapsed access point in new mail panel while in drag state should expand the access point, so you can continue dragging to a view
- Crash when entering a feed, deleting the feed, and clicking a column header
- Feed labels not showing in message list after a restart
- Log files being stored in the wrong location
- Double quotes should search for the whole phrase in Mail
- Pressing Enter when composing HTML mails sometimes has large line spacing
- Zooming in/out of print preview crashed Opera
- Crash on saving label for search in all messages

# Miscellaneous
* Improvements
- Improved (cold) startup performance on machines with slower disks

# Network
* Improvements
- Improved HTTPS-Proxy-CONNECT requests (as in other browsers)
- Improved SSL and TLS
- Illegal URLs are now treated in a user-friendly way
- Improved our content-type detention algorithm (implemented ideas from Media Type Sniffing draft-abarth-mime-sniff-05
- Moved Accept to compose-request and enabled it using */* on a second request
- Removed the Accept-Charset header from HTTP requests
- Improved pipelining
- Improved pubsuffix
- Improved Cookie handling
- Improved traversal in terms of elements/objects in the document and their location searching
* Fixes
- http refresh causing internal communication error
- Connection being closed by remote server on ftp.opera.com with corrupted application_cache

And FF4 will go RTW on the 22nd of this month, apparently. And since Mozilla wants to go all Google-y with the release pace, there are rumors that FF5 will come 16 weeks after FF4. (http://news.softpedia.com/news/At-Least-One-Firefox-4-x-Release-ahead-of-Firefox-5-0-190430.shtml)

demonix
2011-03-19, 09:31
In what way?

It just looks ugly like they've tried to copy google chrome and did a pretty bad job of it.

felix
2011-03-19, 09:36
On a different topic, Opera 11.10 Build 2048 just entered beta stage. Here's the massive changelog:

# User interface
* Improvements
- Added Speed Dial animations
- Improvements made to the Speed Dial flow layout
- Added button to configure Speed Dial
- Added ability to set the number of Speed Dial columns (automatic by default)
- Speed Dial can now be zoomed
- Added a new dialog when adding/editing Speed Dials
- Now possible to add a custom title to Speed Dials, through the new add/edit dialog
- Added feature discoverability improvements
- Improved the bookmarks bar skin
- Use black underline for IME candidates
- Added the UAC shield to the auto-update install button
- "Save file" dialog is now using the new style dialog in Windows Vista/7
- Updated styling for internal pages, and search suggestions on error pages
- Removed "Yes/No" choice from the intranet toolbar; made the suggested url clickable
- Prevent third party applications from hijacking searches and other customizations in Opera
- Windows installer now having an option to remove a profile when uninstalling
- Improved strings and translations
- Configure Speed Dial dialogue: remove the cross button (close) at top right
* Fixes
- Wand corruption occurring when changing master password with specific wand data
- Auto-complete not remembering https protocol
- Crash when changing to an alternate stylesheet via a keyboard shortcut
- Tab becoming unpinned after opening the Save As dialog
- Generated feeds page still using -o-text-overflow:ellipsis
- Wrong background and border color occurring for dropdowns for high contrast operating system themes
- Overlaid page information window being incorrectly displayed on blank pages
- Opera using the latest session for startup instead of the one it is supposed to use
- A ghost window is created when restarting with a floating Panel
- Edit functions not working from the Opera menu button
- Floating panels with the Info panel being activated are covered with a white box on restart
- Go back to Speed Dial using right click-left click loads the start page
- Check marks being inconsistent in View > Encoding
- Potential crash occurring when deleting private data
- Address field misbehaving when changing focus
- Ctrl + Shift + V opening in a new background tab
- New Home url not upgrading when the old url is written in preferences
- Paste&go into an empty tab bar only opens a new empty tab
- History being lost for Speed Dial tabs
- In auto-update, a pending auto-update should not start if the user has manually upgraded Opera in the meantime
- Opera does not get an updated browser.js or override_downloaded.ini for the new version of Opera immediately after auto-updating
- When auto-updating, do not install old updates
- Crash when saving a bookmarks file
- Not being able to connect directly to an Opera Unite instance
- Bookmarks in the bookmarks menu not being able to be right-clicked
- In auto-update, ask before installing an update
- Prevent Opera from opening an infinite number of tabs when a MIME type is set to use Opera's executable as an external application
- Menu button being misplaced in a restored window when Tab bar is set to wrap to multiple lines
- Opera's tooltip appearing in front of another application's tooltip, when a hovered element has a mouse event listener
- Multiple lines getting selected in Advanced Preferences - Storage
- A cut string in the startup dialog in some languages
- Search engines with non-ASCII characters in the address not working
- Rocker gesture actions being displayed in the mouse gesture UI
- www.http// added to urls when urls are opened from auto complete dropdown in the url field
- Crash when pressing Save in the internal source viewer
- In Image Properties, exposure time being sometimes slightly off
- Pasting copied cells from Excel into body of text/html compose body inserts table markup without opening and closing table tags (StartFragment and EndFragment)
- Picasa not starting properly when called by Opera
- Opera's submenus not appearing on hover
- NPAPI plug-ins not being detected
- Windows Classic native skin uses black text on dark progress bar in the address field
- Mouse panning stops working
- Drag and drop to the Attachments field opening files in Opera on Windows
- Transfers disappearing when closing a private tab
- Zoom in shortcut (Ctrl + Plus) not working on keyboard locales where you need a shift modifier to type a plus
- Crash with changing icon extension on extender menu
- Missing privacy checkboxes for extension being opened in dev mode
- Allow cancelling onkeydown for all keys (not just arrow keys, backspace, etc.)
- Plug-ins causing Opera to not shut down
- Overlay dialogs having broken alpha transparency on close animation
- Speed Dial fixes:
> Speed Dial background image becomes enabled after every Opera upgrade
> Zooming when typing + or - in the Speed Dial search field
> Make the Add Speed Dial dialog skinnable
> Let sites reload Speed Dials using the "Preview-refresh: seconds" HTTP, or <meta http-equiv="preview-refresh" content="seconds">
> Using thumbnail friendly content when available
> Opera hanging or crashing when editing/deleting Speed Dial cells in multiple windows at the same time
> Page title being shown on top of thumbnail when hovering background tabs with thumbnail previews enabled
> Duplicate dials occurring on upgrade
- Wininstaller fixes:
> Failure to modify the registry named Software\Classes\Opera.HTML\FriendlyTypeName; error code: 39 or 40
> When the installer cannot find a shortcut for a second Opera install, the installer bails out
> Error code 14 occurring on installing/upgrading
> Respecting the language choice made in the installer and change Opera's language
> Error on installing Opera; error code 89
> Error 76 when upgrading from Opera 11.00 to Opera 11.01
> Error code 17 when upgrading from MSI
> Installer fails if it cannot check if a shortcut exists or not; error 68
> Crash when upgrading to Opera 11.01
> Wrong language being used after autoupdate to Opera 11.01
> Uninstaller randomly freezing
> Cancel button being active in autoupdate dialog when upgrading from MSI to new installer
> Uninstaller not asking for reason for uninstalling
> Pixelated installer icon occurring on Windows 7 taskbar
> Back button missing from the Options page
> Opera sometimes failing to set itself as default when installing for current user
> Size of checkbox field being too small for a translation of the remove profile option

# Display and scripting
* Improvements
- Added support for image naturalWidth naturalHeight
- Moved the accesskey attribute to HTMLElement (HTML5)
- Implemented the W3C Web Open Font Format (WOFF)
- Added support for the BeforeCSS/AfterCSS events
- Added audio/x-midi to the list of MIDI MIME types
- Implemented mouseenter and mouseleave events from DOM3 Events
- Implemented onfocusin/onfocusout events
- Implemented the W3C CSS Viewports specification
- Added support to Opera extensions for debugging of isolated userjs
- Improved Opera spatial navigation on complex sites (like Facebook)
- Improved the image viewer
- Various improvements to Opera Turbo
- Updated strings and translations
* Fixes
- Cancelling onkeydown not also cancelling keypress
- onBlur attribute of an HTML form input field not triggering when focus moves to a different frame
- Opera not supporting multiple rels for LINK
- event.offsetX for mouse events returning "distance from previous whitespace" rather than "distance for target box origin"
- nbsp entity in form element value being submitted as space
- Mouse or keyboard scrolling should be allowed when scrolling=no is set on frame / iframe
- Empty selection must not have any ranges
- tBodies DOM 1 method returning nested tBodies
- Being unable to place the cursor in an empty selection
- .start returning 0 instead of 1 for <ol start="bogus">
- Plug-in object with display block not initializing until paint is triggered
- The input event being dispatched on cut
- xpath engine allowing only 100 predicates in xpath expressions
- prototype must be DontEnum for exposed DOM interfaces
- Incorrect scrolling in "find" when there are inline elements in preformatted text
- type set to the empty string does not load the style sheet
- window.CanvasPixelArray being undefined
- window.ImageData not being prototypable
- Inability to type @ in a transparent Flash text field
- body.background not being able to return full URL of the background image
- Accesskey clicking disabled buttons
- XMLHttpRequest specification being violated when calling send() from a non-opened state does not throw
- Applying vertical-align on an inline-block misplaces it if there is a positioned sibling
- Missing new-script event when scripts are in HTML attributes while working in Opera Dragonfly
- Bold fonts not being properly rendered when there is no bold font file available
- HTMLScriptElement.text shows source of external script, not element contents
- Selecting being broken when used in an upward direction
- self.location (in Web Workers) not taking redirects into account
- Skip collapsed text when extracting selected text and in document edit mode
- Inability to type in Flash text fields
- Thai word wrap not working
- Login problems with Java occurring when in www.sparebank1.no
- Default to "ask user" instead of doing nothing if a plug-in for a filetype is not available
- Seeking in a paused <video> should remove poster frame
- Entities thinsp, ensp, and emsp not being displayed correctly
- DOCTYPE not being generated correctly
- Streaming multiple, identical plug-in streams randomly fails
- <applet> ends up with type parameter after parsing
- scroll event not being fired on document
- Wrong value returned from offsetWidth, offsetHeight in DOMContentLoaded event
- Collapsed range not collapsing after being added to a selection
- Rule with no declarations missing in Opera Dragonfly
- Scrolling a block scrolls the plugin content
- Previous scroll position being restored after interacting with the page while reloading (after having gone back in history)
- Nested ternary operator failing during JIT
- Not waiting for layout if a script tries to read computed height and an external CSS is still loading
- Not being able to post comments or login to reuters.com
- Google virtual keyboard being broken; moving a position:fixed element up or left leaves artifacts
- Crash during a shutdown procedure
- onhashchange event property being on document instead of window
- browser.js failing if a User JavaScript file path does not exist
- Not being able to delete a list, only its contents, in a contentEditable / designMode document
- The player on libre.fm not working in Opera
- ce-html mime type not being handled by Opera (so the page is downloaded)
- Page being loaded from the cache after changing from a lower protocol to higher protocol
- eBuddy.com not working; script cannot read value correctly from a previously hidden textarea
- Document.onload not being fired when loading with async=false (Citibank Singapore Credit Cards Application Forms not visible)
- Opera not parsing WML files when content-type is missing
- Opera displaying the content of files that are served as application/octect-stream
- Using an anchor to determine correct position during mouse dragging
- usairways.com log-in not working if script assigns javascript: URLs to window.location; run them after current thread
- No change event occurring on hidden file input; photo upload broken on xanga.com
- Positioned child with top and bottom set not adjusting to a container's height
- Inability to remove contenteditable="false" content from inside a contenteditable="true" element
- Hash not being updated after a redirect
- Canvas shadowBlur with clipping causes artifacts and a crash
- A CSS string tokenization issue
- -o-transform does not recognize functions with whitespace occurring before arguments
- :active state being dropped if mouse is moved away from an element with the button being pressed
- Unchanged location.hash triggering onhashchange (location.hash = location.hash)
- Classes in content added via importNode not being recognized
- Operator '=' of XPath behaving incorrectly (case insensitive)
- Multiple files from one input not being handled by PHP due to multipart/mixed MIME with sub-parts for each file
- Crash on closing a tab with a plug-in
- Problem selecting origin and destination in the left combo menus; extending SELECT with select.length+=1 fails
- First scroll event being sent to the window instead of the scrollable area
- In Opera Dragonfly, sending the file name of user scripts through scope in OnNewScript
- Find in page not scrolling to show search hits in frames
- link.focus() not removing focus from the rich text editor
- Calling body.focus() on an editable body from a button onclick event fails
- Removing a widget cache folder just after widget uninstall
- 24sevenoffice.com webpage missing menues in Opera; element.children exists in XML documents, but is broken
- Landsend.de not allowing Opera to show its subordinate contents
- <video> containing poster not resizing
- <video> with broken poster not reverting to show the video
- Clicking a <button> fires a focus event and a blur event
- Opera spatial navigation on elements with overlapping rectangles and event handlers not descending in the tree
- Zooming in Opera Show mode causes incorrect scroll position
- Geolocation notifier not being shown again, once a window with a notifier is closed without answering
- hasProperty/hasMethod check not occurring before setting property/method on NPObject
- <video poster> not reappearing after calling load()
- In Opera Dragonfly, opera.scopeCreateClient(): onconnected callback never gets called when connected to a remote host
- Incorrect computed style for text-overflow
- Parsing of empty Geolocation reponse from Gelocation server (over IPv6)
- Double clicking on a content window while a HTTPS site is loading, loads the home page
- In Opera User preferences, "Allow Autofocus Form Element=0" should additionally disable handling focus sent on synthetic events
- Crash when handling a plugin event when a plug-in fails
- Server highlighting for urls containing ":" in a fragment
- Quirks mode parsing of color values on setting property
- Opera returning data for width and height attributes on <canvas> using getAttribute when they are unset or empty
- Admit cloning of object DAGs involving host objects
- input[type=color] accepting any input unlike date, datetime-local, number, week, month
- RegularExpressionLiterals not being re-evaluated to create new objects within a loop
- Text not being base-aligned in text areas
- When scrolling inside a scrollable container, enable the scrolled-to element to be outside of view
- Crash when clearing the undo/redo stack after typing in Hebrew
- Slowdown on hovering a document with positioned iframes with visibility: hidden
- Eval having an unnecessary hard limit of 64 imported variables
- Date header from server later being sent in an If-Range header
- relative position on a link or its parent disables clickability
- console.log not printing to the Error Console
- HTMLElement getting garbage collected, causing a custom property to cease existing on erlang.org
- Incorrect value being computed if there is a space character before a hash in a color definition
- Value being lost on setting the indexed property of an external plug-in object; vod.onet.pl player not loading
- Overflow hidden container being scrolled when clicking button
- Malware check not ignoring intranet URIs
- Several memory usage errors
- Opera freezing on some Turkish websites
- "Execute program" concluding a line of parameters in quotes
- Incorrect redrawing of a page when displaying the tooltip and scrolling
- Geolocation module initialisation taking too long to startup
- Failed repaint when removing fixed positioned element that overlaps body padding/margin
- Fixed positioned elements not invalidated properly when being removed
- Incorrect parsing of a JavaScript array literal
- Content with position: fixed and top placement not being hidden
- Top menu sometimes disappears when clicking buttons on Google docs
- Dynamically setting display:none not properly repainting a fixed-position descendant
- Setting ancestor to visibility:hidden not redrawing a position:fixed element (redrawing error on twitter.com)
- Cookies on localhost 127.0.0.1 not being returned by GetCookie (Cookie-Manager service)
- Pasting from right-click menu creates unformatted text inside formatted blocks with CKEditor
- Opera crashing while using spatial navigation on a rapidshare.com page
- HTML5 video crashes when files are being hosted on an FTP server
- document.write from a timed script clearing the page
- Doing location.replace on iframe and reading out iframe's document before load, fails on orkut.com
- Adding a command to get a resource id with an URL in the resource service for Opera DragonFly
- Many CSS3 cursors not displaying on Windows
- Crash when extensions need HTTP Auth after a restart
- Enable Cookies DNS Check default is set to true, should be false
- 100% cpu usage occurring when installing application cache on developers.whatwg.org
- Crash when loading developers.whatwg.org
- "work offline" conflicting with "application cache"
- Some sites flicker when loading plug-ins
- Application cache not being detected for explicit cache entries when loaded outside of the application cache
- UserJS code not running in extensions if page does not include a script tag
- Links in extension pages not working when trying to open extension-internal urls in new windows
- The extension background process reloading correctly and without crashing
- Extension pages being allowed to navigate to other extension-internal pages via the location object
- Extension-related windows with scriptless documents not being closed when the extension is disabled
- Widget Interface not being exposed on the UserJS side of extensions
- The console object in Web Workers not logging anything to the error console
- Tab urls exposed from extensions not including the url's fragment identifier
- Caret placement at line ends being broken in contentEditable <pre> tags; wrapped lines case that caused problems in M2
- The background process being allowed to navigate away from the extension's index.html
- Ease-in transition goes out of range when second transition overrides it near the end
- Crash when getting color from -o-skin

# Mail, news, chat
* Improvements
- Added support for phrase searching
- Improved CJK searches
- Improvements made to the panel, including a setting to disable automatic toggling
* Fixes
- Running javascript url even though it is being replaced by a form submit; an issue with Yandex Mail
- While surfing in a private window, Opera Mail links open in a non-private tab
- Not being able to change mail signature from HTML to plain text
- POP3 causing a crash on exit
- Mail label being created from "save search" also shows non-matching messages that are received after the label is created
- Sorting message list by label not working
- "Label As" submenu from the mail body context menu showing an empty label list
- Crash after opening the mail window in a separate tab
- "Sent" view under POP access point showing sent messages for all accounts that use the same SMTP server
- POP "Inbox" view not being updated after a restart
- Crash occurring on exit, with either POP or mailing list/feed folders
- "Saved search" labels being removed after a second restart
- IPv6 connection failures occurring on Mac, Linux, and FreeBSD
- Progress bar percentage going haywire when importing a large mbox
- Rounded corners on the "No message selected" Mail/Feeds page
- Opening a feed tab also opens the Mail panel
- Moving mouse in the new mail panel while in drag state not scrolling the super scrollbar
- Hovering over collapsed access point in new mail panel while in drag state should expand the access point, so you can continue dragging to a view
- Crash when entering a feed, deleting the feed, and clicking a column header
- Feed labels not showing in message list after a restart
- Log files being stored in the wrong location
- Double quotes should search for the whole phrase in Mail
- Pressing Enter when composing HTML mails sometimes has large line spacing
- Zooming in/out of print preview crashed Opera
- Crash on saving label for search in all messages

# Miscellaneous
* Improvements
- Improved (cold) startup performance on machines with slower disks

# Network
* Improvements
- Improved HTTPS-Proxy-CONNECT requests (as in other browsers)
- Improved SSL and TLS
- Illegal URLs are now treated in a user-friendly way
- Improved our content-type detention algorithm (implemented ideas from Media Type Sniffing draft-abarth-mime-sniff-05
- Moved Accept to compose-request and enabled it using */* on a second request
- Removed the Accept-Charset header from HTTP requests
- Improved pipelining
- Improved pubsuffix
- Improved Cookie handling
- Improved traversal in terms of elements/objects in the document and their location searching
* Fixes
- http refresh causing internal communication error
- Connection being closed by remote server on ftp.opera.com with corrupted application_cacheIs it usable? What I mean is what are the known issues with it.

Renegade334
2011-03-19, 10:55
Not sure...from what I heard the alpha preceding this build proved to be quite unstable - but then again, it's an alpha: it takes care of new tech implementation and performance boosting, whereas betas are supposed to stabilize the core.

I'm still withholding on 11.10 until either RC or final build. The only bells and whistles they cared showcasing were the evolution of the speed dial, which has been mentioned in my previous posts, but otherwise it's seems it's a roundup of exotic crashes and other internal/GUI improvements.


As for IE9, it makes no doubt there is a Chrome GUI factor playing a sizable part in the design, but they've been wanting to simplify things with the fusion of the search bar and the address bar, as well as giving the page display area more real estate (the detail is ridiculous, but they went even as far as eliminating the pixel line / lower edge below the address/bookmarks bar). It is nevertheless possible to return to a more IE8-like appearance if you decide to bring all tabs to a separate row and force all other bars (menu, bookmarks, status) to become visible.


And, oh, contrarily to what I also posted before, it seems Mozilla actually deigned compile an RC2 - which is the last build until next week's RTW.

felix
2011-03-19, 11:27
I've tried both firefox and the opera (there was a recent build to fix RC bugs).

Opera's speed dial doesn't look better to me, it just looks different; overall there's nothing to it, it's just your average bugfix release—I'm getting this impression it's slower though. I'll post here if it crashes on me and I switch back.

As for Firefox. Am I the only one who think the interface is damn ugly? It feels like it's designed by a non-designer. You just have random padding here, random margin there, some things too small, other things too big. And the color pallet is pretty ugly and random. There's no symmetry or synergy in the design at all. If they wanted just a interface they should have simply emulated the OS's interface more, rather then botch something together like this. Personally I don't like fighting with the interface, no matter how good the technology behind it is.

I feel like, with the exception of Chrome, major browsers are just becoming more lame with each new version. The only good thing in recent years is that the support for standards is strong.

monster
2011-03-21, 06:53
It's a fact that IE has many, if not all, complex software have security flaws though. You're putting your computer on constant risk by using that piece of crap connecting to the internet :x See what I just did there?

Konakaga
2011-03-21, 16:20
See what I just did there?

You edited a fact and an opinion, good job? :eyebrow:
And on what you made say if you're running a different browser the risks aren't the same at all IE has a had an awful track record with security flaws in addition since it has the largest share of web browser usage[about 56.8% currently] anyone attempting to exploit a security flaw for profit or causing damage would generally want to effect as many targets as easily as possible to get the most done from their work, which means it's a more likely target so having less security isn't acceptable for such a large share of the users to be put at risk.

And on the security source you used earlier, Pwn2Own 2011, you either intentional didn't mention the fact that no1 had managed exploit firefox during it this year or didn't realize that was the case.

Lilithium
2011-03-21, 18:32
I'm using Chrome at the moment, and it is indeed faster than what I was experiencing in Firefox. I wasn't a big add-on user, so I'm not really noticing a loss of what I can do with this browser. I'll keep using it for awhile longer. Nostalgia: I remember when Firefox was first released. It beat the shit out of what I was using at the time, that being Internet Explorer. Tabbed browsing, and all those standard features of browsers these days! Firefox was certainly great back then.

spikexp
2011-03-21, 21:58
I remember firefox back with 1.5, I came from IE and it was so great, the best browser I had and I still remember all the love I gave him :D
After came firefox 2.0, was great, A good upgrade for 1.5.
Than 3.0, ok, I still was using it I wasn't knowing anything else.
3.5... Bof
3.6 I hate it from all my might.
Than I got opera 10 beta, wow, I had difficulty at first, my first love was still in my heart, but with time I start to fall in love and now I can't let it go.
Tried chrome, but didn't love it, I don't know why.

Firefox 4.0
...
...
really, I don't know what to say about it, I just hate what it became.

monster
2011-03-21, 22:27
You edited a fact and an opinion, good job? :eyebrow: Obviously, you missed the point. Good job. ;) And on what you made say if you're running a different browser the risks aren't the same at all IE has a had an awful track record with security flaws in addition since it has the largest share of web browser usage[about 56.8% currently] anyone attempting to exploit a security flaw for profit or causing damage would generally want to effect as many targets as easily as possible to get the most done from their work, which means it's a more likely target so having less security isn't acceptable for such a large share of the users to be put at risk. Oh, I don't know about that, I've been using IE for most of my browsing history on Windows going back the past 13 years and I've had much more problems with malware by using p2p and other software than I do by simply using IE.

The point is, unless you're still using IE6 on XP today, the risk of being a victim of malware by simply using IE is not as great as to discount IE as a usable browser. Today, IE9 + Win7 is perfectly an acceptable option for browsing the web.

You'd be more likely to be a victim of social engineering than an IE exploit. And on the security source you used earlier, Pwn2Own 2011, you either intentional didn't mention the fact that no1 had managed exploit firefox during it this year or didn't realize that was the case. Clearly you're confused.

Konakaga
2011-03-22, 17:49
Obviously, you missed the point. Good job. ;) Oh, I don't know about that, I've been using IE for most of my browsing history on Windows going back the past 13 years and I've had much more problems with malware by using p2p and other software than I do by simply using IE.

The point is, unless you're still using IE6 on XP today, the risk of being a victim of malware by simply using IE is not as great as to discount IE as a usable browser. Today, IE9 + Win7 is perfectly an acceptable option for browsing the web.

You'd be more likely to be a victim of social engineering than an IE exploit.

Most Social engineering still depends on some flaw the web browser unless it's a phishing attempt, and I've never gotten anything from p2p malware wise personally, though I've had some on[either my comp or someone in the family's] non-FF browsers ussually due to site being infected, or the rare infected adds on a site from google. And IE being an "acceptable" browser is better than it was in recent history, but unless microsoft actually starts handling security flaws when they occur in a more timely manner then it will still leave you at risk. And I don't see how I missed you're point before since the first part is fact unless you have some proof[regardless of time it getting hacked means it has vulnerabilities], while the second part you crossed out was their opinion.

Clearly you're confused.

Firefox contestant Sam Thomas withdrew as he felt his exploit wasn't stable.

Which means firefox successful "survived" during Pwn2Own 2011 while IE did not, which you didn't mention before hence my comment.

monster
2011-03-22, 18:29
And I don't see how I missed you're point before since the first part is fact unless you have some proof[regardless of time it getting hacked means it has vulnerabilities], while the second part you crossed out was their opinion. The point that you missed is that you can say the same thing about many other complex software. So that post was pointless. Which means firefox successful "survived" during Pwn2Own 2011 while IE did not, which you didn't mention before hence my comment. You're confused because I never even brought up Pwn2Own in the first place.

Sugetsu
2011-03-23, 03:01
Personally, I like Chrome the most. It is fast, minimalistic, simple, has a very clean interface and, best of all, its interface is so well put together that it takes very little space and you get to see most of the web page.

The addons I use for it are iReader, WOT, Adblock plus, and IE tab.

demonix
2011-03-23, 08:27
Just so everyone knows firefox 4 was released yesterday (those on XP have to update to 3.6.16 before being able to update to 4 of which the former only got released today) and even though it is starting to look like chrome it looks a bit neater (if you use adblock plus the icon isn't glued into the address bar like it is in chrome) and if you use either windows vista or 7 you have two options when looking at your bookmarks (the bookmarks button on the right or the bookmarks option when you click the funky firefox button on the top left of the window).

Himeji
2011-03-23, 23:03
Just so everyone knows firefox 4 was released yesterday (those on XP have to update to 3.6.16 before being able to update to 4 of which the former only got released today) and even though it is starting to look like chrome it looks a bit neater (if you use adblock plus the icon isn't glued into the address bar like it is in chrome) and if you use either windows vista or 7 you have two options when looking at your bookmarks (the bookmarks button on the right or the bookmarks option when you click the funky firefox button on the top left of the window).

Firefox 4 works fine here on my Kubuntu Maverick :D
If you want to try it on (K)ubuntu, just add the following repository in Synaptic:
ppa:mozillateam/firefox-stable
https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-stable

Konakaga
2011-03-24, 01:19
The point that you missed is that you can say the same thing about many other complex software. So that post was pointless.

Just because other software has security flaws doesn't somehow make it anymore acceptable for them to be left there like IE has done in the past :rolleyes:.

You're confused because I never even brought up Pwn2Own in the first place.

Oh sorry, I thought you had, but it was someone else using it as a source.

monster
2011-03-24, 01:45
Just because other software has security flaws doesn't somehow make it anymore acceptable for them to be left there like IE has done in the past :rolleyes:. Maybe not, but it sure clarifies the situation. I'm not trying to excuse the flaws. I'm just saying that, especially with today's IE, just because it has flaws does not make it objectively unusable. If you don't want to use IE, that's alright. But there are also other people, such as myself, who know that there are risks but who use IE just fine. It doesn't make us silly or anything.

It's like the people who don't want to use Windows because it's targeted by malware. That's fine for them, but the existance of malware targeting Windows wouldn't stop me from using Windows completely. Heck, I've been using Windows for nearly 20 years and I rarely have problems due to malware. And the last time was over seven years ago, and it was not from using IE.

Konakaga
2011-03-24, 03:54
Maybe not, but it sure clarifies the situation. I'm not trying to excuse the flaws. I'm just saying that, especially with today's IE, just because it has flaws does not make it objectively unusable. If you don't want to use IE, that's alright. But there are also other people, such as myself, who know that there are risks but who use IE just fine. It doesn't make us silly or anything.

It's like the people who don't want to use Windows because it's targeted by malware. That's fine for them, but the existance of malware targeting Windows wouldn't stop me from using Windows completely. Heck, I've been using Windows for nearly 20 years and I rarely have problems due to malware. And the last time was over seven years ago, and it was not from using IE.

The problem is most people whom use IE aren't aware of the risks, if you know them and choose it for whatever that's fine, but since it's the default most people who don't understand the risks tend stay with it. Thus the flaws becoming a large issue than if it weren't such a well known browsers.

monster
2011-03-24, 04:53
The problem is most people whom use IE aren't aware of the risks, if you know them and choose it for whatever that's fine, but since it's the default most people who don't understand the risks tend stay with it. Thus the flaws becoming a large issue than if it weren't such a well known browsers. Well, that's as much the user's faults, if not more, than it is the browser's. And it would certainly help if the users would update their software regularly and not turn off and/or ignore security features.

So my original point still stands that IE, especially IE8 and IE9 on Vista/7, is a perfectly usable browser for browsing the web today.

chikorita157
2011-03-24, 10:55
I tried Firefox 4 on Mac OS X... the speed is very good considering that they have finally switched over to 64-bit like Safari 5. I tried it for a few hours and as always the memory usage is very excessive. It was using 400-500 MB at one time when I have 1 window open.

I did a test right now comparing the memory usage, and it uses 38.5% more memory than Safari... probably this percentage will be more if compared to Chrome (including the individual processes). Until then, I will stick with Safari on Mac OS X until they fix this issue.
Result:
http://i.imgur.com/S1rux.png

Archon_Wing
2011-03-24, 12:17
Firefox on Mac never seems to have worked well, for whatever reason.

chikorita157
2011-03-24, 18:59
Firefox on Mac never seems to have worked well, for whatever reason.

This is the main reason why I never really used Firefox or any apps that are based on Mozilla XUL... they are too bloated compared to browsers that are native (Chrome, Opera and Safari.) I could of use Camino, but the rendering engine is still outdated compared to the ones in Firefox.

I guess the wait continues... until Firefox 5 fixes these issues.

Himeji
2011-03-24, 22:30
I tried Firefox 4 on Mac OS X... the speed is very good considering that they have finally switched over to 64-bit like Safari 5. I tried it for a few hours and as always the memory usage is very excessive. It was using 400-500 MB at one time when I have 1 window open.

400-500MB? That's indeed excessive :heh:
Right now, I've been using Firefox 4 for some time already, and it's using 200MB.
This is the 64-bit version on Kubuntu Maverick from the Mozillateam repository I gave above.

http://www.abload.de/img/firefox4-memory-kubuntzkvk.png (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=firefox4-memory-kubuntzkvk.png)

Archon_Wing
2011-03-25, 00:00
This is the main reason why I never really used Firefox or any apps that are based on Mozilla XUL... they are too bloated compared to browsers that are native (Chrome, Opera and Safari.) I could of use Camino, but the rendering engine is still outdated compared to the ones in Firefox.

I guess the wait continues... until Firefox 5 fixes these issues.

Ultimately, I feel there's really no need to change browsers unless you are bored or it doesn't work or something. For Windows there was a reason back then in the days of IE6 epic fail security, but now no choice is really that awful.

Since I'm already using FF, I guess I'll take a look at 4 eventually, but I need to wait for extension updates.

sa547
2011-03-25, 12:14
Judging from the reviews... for now I'll stick with FF3.6.16 and Opera.

delirium
2011-03-25, 15:14
Hey y'all, looking for someone knowledgeable about Google Chrome. I've been using it for awhile now, it's suited my needs very well. I've been going over the options though, and I can't find a means to disable the curse-over link previews. Anyone know how to?

Asuras
2011-03-27, 00:29
I'm not sure how to do that one, sorry Del. :(

On the subject of suggestions however, I wholesomely support Google Chrome.
FAST. ACCESSIBLE. PRETTY.
F.A.P :heh:

Anyways... Compared to my Internet Explorer, it is (arguably) 5x faster in loading speeds. Accessibility is overwhelmingly easy; so much so that when first used I didn't understand. I was over-thinking and assuming there was more to it! Nope!

Google Chrome also automatically translates foreign-language websites on the spot. Hello PixIV!

Tabs open and close with vigor, never seeming to lag or think too hard.

Vexx
2011-04-07, 09:27
I'm trying Seamonkey ... it has a much smaller RAM footprint than running Firefox and Thunderbird together. Seems pretty clean (uses the same open source but if you still run an email client it saves a lot of space by sharing libraries I'm assuming).

Only "problem" I've encountered so far is that it has some different defaults than FF and TB, so you have to hunt those down in the options. It has the necessary pile of addons (e.g. flashgot, adblocker, etc) but isn't quite as "pretty" as firefox can be made to be.

Seems to be a good choice for older machines with limited RAM (1GB or less) and they're an active free opensource project.

edit: so far looking wonderful... will post if I encounter any issues.

Tiberium Wolf
2011-04-07, 16:55
PPL I need help in moving bookmarks drop down button from the right to the left. Is that possible?

Edit: Ups... yes FF 4. Corrected

blaze0041
2011-04-07, 16:58
^ Should be possible (Firefox, right?). Right click on an empty area on any of your toolbars, then click "Customize...", and you'll now be able to drag around your toolbar buttons and such.

I've used pretty much every single modern web browser so far, and the fact is, competition is good. Ultimately, the consumer wins out because of the wide variety of choices they can pick from:

Internet Explorer 9: Far better than all other versions, takes cues from its competitors. Easy to use. (+Feature: ActiveX Filtering, Tracking Protection)
Firefox 4: Takes cues from Opera and Chrome. The most extensible and customisable of all the browsers. Still has a fairly large memory footprint, but it's faster and more stable than before, future versions to be released at a faster pace. (+Feature: Tab Panorama, Do Not Track, Restart-less addons [but only a very small number at this stage])
Google Chrome: Built from the ground up with a focus on speed and security. New features are added at a quick pace. (+Feature: Multithread browsing, sandboxing)
Opera 11: Hasn't changed much from 10, but it's still very fast, and has a lot of features that the others don't have. (+Feature: Tab Stacking, Opera Turbo, Opera Unite Media Server)

Tiberium Wolf
2011-04-07, 17:51
^ Should be possible (Firefox, right?). Right click on an empty area on any of your toolbars, then click "Customize...", and you'll now be able to drag around your toolbar buttons and such.



Doesn't work. In Customize I can drag it but after I end it it goes back to the original position.

blaze0041
2011-04-07, 18:54
^ That's odd, mine is fine...

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/blaze0041/th_fb188c0c.png (http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/blaze0041/?action=view&current=fb188c0c.png)

Archon_Wing
2011-04-07, 22:25
Why the fuck does Firefox print web pages so badly? It seems to print them in separate frames. or something; Opera at least prints most page with text intact.

And I can't even select "as laid out on the screen" because it's greyed out. Actually when wouldn't I want to print it out as it's laid in on the screen?

Pocari_Sweat
2011-04-07, 22:30
I use to use Firefox as my main browser. Problem was it was a memory hog and webpages would load up very slow. It was even slower than Internet Explorer when I compared it, and well... everyone knows how shit IE is.

Switched to Chrome. Lack of addons annoyed me, particularly the lack of an inbuilt Youtube downloader. Managed to fix that using 3rd party software though so it's not so bad anymore. Hell fast and efficient though once you get used to it.

Archon_Wing
2011-04-07, 22:47
Hmm, the only reason why I'm sticking with FF is the addons; noscript is too valuable to pass up. If it had no addons, I'd dump it like garbage. Which is why I haven't upgraded yet as I wait for them to catch up.

sa547
2011-04-08, 00:43
I'm trying Seamonkey ... it has a much smaller RAM footprint than running Firefox and Thunderbird together. Seems pretty clean (uses the same open source but if you still run an email client it saves a lot of space by sharing libraries I'm assuming).

Only "problem" I've encountered so far is that it has some different defaults than FF and TB, so you have to hunt those down in the options. It has the necessary pile of addons (e.g. flashgot, adblocker, etc) but isn't quite as "pretty" as firefox can be made to be.

Seems to be a good choice for older machines with limited RAM (1GB or less) and they're an active free opensource project.

edit: so far looking wonderful... will post if I encounter any issues.

I'll try that, especially as I have a very old laptop (circa 1998-99) with a Pentium Mobile 233Mhz and only 128mb of memory, and FF gets choked on Facebook.

Edit: It's great on the old lappy; Facebook loads up all right! :D So I therefore recommend Seamonkey for those who are sticking with old Pentium III machines with 128mb of memory.

OBTW, interface reminds me strongly of old Netscape, which I once used as my standard just before it bloated by version 4. :)

Tiberium Wolf
2011-04-08, 00:59
^ That's odd, mine is fine...

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/blaze0041/th_fb188c0c.png (http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/blaze0041/?action=view&current=fb188c0c.png)

Well seems like it's fine if you don't have View bookmark toolbar. :mad: I need it to be viewed.

blaze0041
2011-04-08, 01:20
Well seems like it's fine if you don't have View bookmark toolbar. :mad: I need it to be viewed.

You mean like this?
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/blaze0041/th_197d9144.png (http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/blaze0041/?action=view&current=197d9144.png)

Tiberium Wolf
2011-04-08, 01:55
You mean like this?
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/blaze0041/th_197d9144.png (http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/blaze0041/?action=view&current=197d9144.png)

Yes! How did you do it?

blaze0041
2011-04-08, 02:00
^ From the customise window, drag the "Bookmarks" button onto your bookmarks toolbar. Done!

Tiberium Wolf
2011-04-08, 02:56
^ From the customise window, drag the "Bookmarks" button onto your bookmarks toolbar. Done!

Thx +rep for u.

Vexx
2011-04-09, 23:19
I'll try that, especially as I have a very old laptop (circa 1998-99) with a Pentium Mobile 233Mhz and only 128mb of memory, and FF gets choked on Facebook.

Edit: It's great on the old lappy; Facebook loads up all right! :D So I therefore recommend Seamonkey for those who are sticking with old Pentium III machines with 128mb of memory.

OBTW, interface reminds me strongly of old Netscape, which I once used as my standard just before it bloated by version 4. :)

Yeah, we have a couple of older Thinkpads that it runs great on (256mb and 512mb each). For that matter, its a hell of nice on my 2GB machine. Granted it isn't quite as pretty, but it does have the add-ons I actually care about (like adblock or flashgot).

So far, my only whine is having to tweak a few default settings and the lack of a tab 'x' close button (probably some way to fix that as well).

http://www.seamonkey-project.org/ for anyone who's interested, runs on Windows, Linux, and MacOS.

Tiberium Wolf
2011-04-18, 03:17
1st time today that FF4 crashed. It took then more or less 5 min to load. I did set the cache to 1 GB and it must have been the reason. I checked the cache and it wasn't gone like the previous versions but it was at like 50k files and 3k folders o.O

blaze0041
2011-04-18, 04:36
1st time today that FF4 crashed. It took then more or less 5 min to load. I did set the cache to 1 GB and it must have been the reason. I checked the cache and it wasn't gone like the previous versions but it was at like 50k files and 3k folders o.O

I don't think I've even seen anyone need more than 50MB in their cache! :twitch:
For best performance, override the cache size to 0MB (unless you have a solid state drive). If you need it, set your cache to no more than 100MB.

Tiberium Wolf
2011-04-18, 08:17
I don't think I've even seen anyone need more than 50MB in their cache! :twitch:
For best performance, override the cache size to 0MB (unless you have a solid state drive). If you need it, set your cache to no more than 100MB.

I have traffic shaping so I need a lot of cache.

Edit: Funny cache gone. Dunno why.

sa547
2011-05-01, 03:53
Upgraded to Firefox 4.01 from 3.x. Lot less sluggish than once used to be, and much to my delight, the PC doesn't shut down when the browser encounters and plays Flash video. Still happens on occasion; though I suppose I'll have to clean up the PC's innards -- probably heat issues with the hardware, especially the graphics card.

Note: been with it since 0.98 after IE5.5 got punctured by malware. Tried the others but I kept coming back to it... and I'd like to do things down and dirty.

Note #2: Chrome's a bit disorienting to use, even if I'm hearing a lot of high praises; Opera had some layout problems with Facebook while using its chatboxes; Seamonkey's stable but have to transfer my bookmarks from FF by importing them as HTML, and I think not all of my favorite addons can work within SM.

KiNA
2011-05-01, 06:10
I'm stuck with Iron(Portable) (http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php) for the longest time now(almost a year) without trouble. Didnt even have to install the little gem.

For extension addict, its compatible to chrome extension too.

ninryu
2011-05-01, 06:30
Firefox is awesome, but certain things doesn't work on it, so I also use Chrome.

mukansa monkey
2011-05-03, 16:29
Mostly using Safari on my Macs.
Occasionally load Chrome for pages that seem wonky in Safari. Worried about the whole googleware issue though.
Firefox on the Mac: Tried it, hated it. Hogs memory, is slower than dirt to load pages sometimes, crashes for no discernible reason, and the real killer: takes literally minutes to quit. Something just not right there, no matter how many cool addons it has.

All you need to know about IE (http://randomfunnypicture.com/wp2/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/internet-explorer-motivational-download-other-browers1.jpg)

zrdb
2011-05-05, 14:54
Firefox all the way-I don't want any stinking google crap on my computor.

felix
2011-05-05, 18:51
Currently switched to OperaNext, which is basically just the usual pre-release builds only this time the browser autoupdates to them. It’s essentially like another browser that just doesn’t mess with the installation of the latest stable version of Opera. Aside from the experimental features/fixes the only difference is that the menu icon is blue and Opera “O” icon is much cooler.

Vexx
2011-05-05, 21:42
Upgraded to Firefox 4.01 from 3.x. Lot less sluggish than once used to be, and much to my delight, the PC doesn't shut down when the browser encounters and plays Flash video. Still happens on occasion; though I suppose I'll have to clean up the PC's innards -- probably heat issues with the hardware, especially the graphics card.

Note: been with it since 0.98 after IE5.5 got punctured by malware. Tried the others but I kept coming back to it... and I'd like to do things down and dirty.

Note #2: Chrome's a bit disorienting to use, even if I'm hearing a lot of high praises; Opera had some layout problems with Facebook while using its chatboxes; Seamonkey's stable but have to transfer my bookmarks from FF by importing them as HTML, and I think not all of my favorite addons can work within SM.

My comments - Firefox 4.X is starting to look a bit Chrome'ish :P but can be reconfigured easily back to "what I like". I've been using Chrome on a separate box.... I can see the appeal to "appliance user" type folks but not for tinker-types like me.

Seamonkey has a few configure wonkies (like the bookmark issue and some "why?" moments with the defaults) -- however it is a much smaller footprint in RAM which is good for older machines. yeah, it lags behind the curve in adapting the add-ons and plug-ins... though the basics have been ported so far.

I've looked at the latest IE... but frankly I've had it with operating systems doing things unrelated to core duties - especially if applications are just tangled up in them and reducing stability. It pisses me off when games launch IE rather than my defined default browser (usually Korean f2p MMOS but Sony's Station Launcher is hard-code to launch IE rather than the default browser as well).

sa547
2011-05-05, 22:32
^
True, because IE is highly integrated into Windows, most Korean MMOs tend to use IE as their player login system before jumpstarting the game engine (as they sometimes set the login onto the game's main site, while others build a separate launcher with an IE control embedded in), but it's a rather annoying implementation compared to other MMOs with their own login system within the game engine.