Claymore Chapter 105 [Archive] - Page 3

evil_kenshin

2010-07-24, 01:09

No. It's childish to expect that when people say: "Raki has grown into a popular character instead of the most hated thing in existance" (-Shiek927) for people who disagree to stay quiet. That would be tacitly agreeing to a statement to which I most certainly do not agree.
If you want me to say nothing, avoid saying things that require a response. Possibly you did not see this as a very provocative quote and it escaped your notice if you believe the same way Shiek927 does, but for me it certainly is an attention grabber.

For the same reasons that religion and politics are not discussed in polite society, is the same reason love for Raki should not be. There'd be no need for me to tone down anything if you guys didn't force a reply out of me - I don't want to ever mention him. I find he's best ignored. If I am forced to reply, you know what it's going to be, so make allowances to see just that when you make sweeping fawning statements over him publically (seeing that is every bit as repugnant for me, as seeing my diatribes towards him are for you).

As for the paedo stuff - I admit I mispoke - I should have said "condoning paedophilia" which is more along the lines of what I meant. Sorry about that - typing is an inperfect communication medium.

But you could try and put it a bit more nicer. While shiek may of generalised its not really that provocative for shiek to say that, since its true. A majority of posters no longer hate Raki if they did in the beginning.

Its hypocritical that you don't mind liking any other character its just that if Raki is mentioned you go in a frenzy of attacking both him and the poster who said it.

[thousandmaster]

2010-07-24, 01:24

I find he's best ignored.

No offense but people are starting to think that about you. Your repetitive I hate Raki, blah blah blah. Just saying. ;)

revan5

2010-07-24, 02:14

Can't we have more constructive "fights", like arguments over whether buxom Miria or sleek Galatea is the fairest of them all? (or perhaps the dark horse candidate, Renee ;))

I'm however having trouble relating religious/political talk with discussing Raki. I've found him annoying at times, it's true, but characters do not stay the same forever, much like people. I'm more than willing to give Raki his shot at redemption rather than dismiss such a possibility out of hand. His new self seems more than tolerable by my estimations.

The only thing that ever grates on me is when Shiek goes on about Priscilla being redeemable. I guess to me, once a person has murdered more than a certain number of people, they stop being "redeemable". Shiek thinks she can/will be redeemed, and I find this abhorrent because it means her thousands of victims will never get justice. At least with that disagreement there are two clear moral value systems involved. I'm having a tough time seeing that as the case when regarding Raki.

haegar

2010-07-24, 02:35

can you stop bullying cyclone for bullying raki? I find his "dinosauric" (quote, I didn't say that :p) creativity in finding new ways of expressing his feelings on this character amusing and not offensive, however bad my mood might be without having had my morning coffee. :heh:

apart from that, I shall not accept Galatea beeing called "sleek" in comparison to "buxom" Miria. And Renee is kinda cute but does not even compare to the both of them. So can we have a fight about something constructive and important like which of the claymores is sexiest? Revan made a good call there ... otherwise somebody plz come up with spoilers... that I would also tolerate :heh:

evil_kenshin

2010-07-24, 02:39

The only thing that ever grates on me is when Shiek goes on about Priscilla being redeemable. I guess to me, once a person has murdered more than a certain number of people, they stop being "redeemable".

Yagi may go that route based on what he did with Isley & Riful. Rather than have them go out as monsters they went out showing their human emotions (Isley with Priscilla + Raki & Riful about Duaf)

Yagi seems to have some redemption theme going so it may be the path he goes down.

MalakTawus

2010-07-24, 04:06

About Priscilla i hope she doesn't die now,but i REALLY hope she won't win this battle 'cause if she continues to be "the emotionless untouchable queen" 4ever she'll be a monodimensional character and quite boring.I want Claire to reinstall a bit of fear (and if not fear at least considering Claire a worthy opponent) in her causing maybe some sort of fight between her human self and her awakened self once she gets back her memories.
I hope that in the end (not now) Claire will give up on her vendetta and instead help Priscilla to return "human".

alovelyburn

2010-07-24, 04:07

Yagi may go that route based on what he did with Isley & Riful. Rather than have them go out as monsters they went out showing their human emotions (Isley with Priscilla + Raki & Riful about Duaf)

Yagi seems to have some redemption theme going so it may be the path he goes down.

Honestly, I almost expect it. It seems to be a favorite of his.

The thing is, Priscilla herself isn't especially irredeemable as far as villains go. She's killed lots of people, yes, but Yagi has often gone out of his way to portray it as either done in relative innocence (Extra Scene 3 where she clearly doesn't quite "get" what's going on) or as a last resort after offering someone a chance to retreat instead. Even the big thing that so many people can't stop hating her for - the death of Teresa - was done on orders from someone else, in the genuine belief that Teresa was evil and while Priscilla herself was in the midst of a breakdown at best and already psychologically awakened at worst. (I'm not debating the whole "was it the claymore or the yoma thing, GDI. I'm just saying either way, she wasn't right in the head at the time). Not to mention all those years spent showing her as a moe waif with Isley and then with Raki. He's definitely laid the groundwork for it to be believable if he feels like going that route, and it's not as though she'd be the first villain to be redeemed in the history of storytelling (or even the one with the worst crimes attributed to her name), with or without dying afterward. It's one of the more common storytelling tropes, so there's nothing inconceivable about it, really.

I think, rather than there being something inherently irredeemable about her character, it's more often a case of many fans simply not wanting to see her redeemed because they're mad at her/can't or won't forgive her for one or another thing she's done, or because they're invested in the idea of Clare achieving her revenge. Basically because they wouldn't find it as satisfying.

As for me, I could go either way. If I were forced to lay down money on one or another outcome, based on Yagi's pattern so far I'd say "redemption + death" but considering that she's a much more important character than say, Riful or Isley (more important to the plot, not necessarily to any given fan), it's pretty up in the air. She could be used to counter his redemptive themes or to solidify them.

(Ps. Thanks for the link, Joe_fh! :D)

irvinethearcher

2010-07-24, 05:30

A propos raki,
where is gangsta ?:heh:

About Priscilla i hope she doesn't die now,but i REALLY hope she won't win this battle 'cause if she continues to be "the emotionless untouchable queen" 4ever she'll be a monodimensional character and quite boring.I want Claire to reinstall a bit of fear (and if not fear at least considering Claire a worthy opponent) in her causing maybe some sort of fight between her human self and her awakened self once she gets back her memories.
I hope that in the end (not now) Claire will give up on her vendetta and instead help Priscilla to return "human".

I don't know, even as a human priscilla was IMO somehow twisted because i think that she murdered theresa as a human being and not as an awakened.
I know others see this point in a different way but therefore for me the only place where priscilla should return to is the earth and the dust.

Cyclone

2010-07-24, 05:33

But you could try and put it a bit more nicer. While shiek may of generalised its not really that provocative for shiek to say that, since its true. A majority of posters no longer hate Raki if they did in the beginning.

Its hypocritical that you don't mind liking any other character its just that if Raki is mentioned you go in a frenzy of attacking both him and the poster who said it.

*sigh*
You have a very strange definition of attack. The only person I meant to be negative about was Raki - and by my standards, not even that much. If anyone is attacking anyone, it's you attacking me for daring not to like that idiot.

Not only that, but you continue to persist this. To me, because I vehemently disagree with it, it was/is a provocative statement. To you it's not, because you agree with it. In all the posts I've read, I can't recall more than one or maybe two where someone claimed to change their opinion of him post time skip. What there is, I admit, a whole bunch more people now who post openly liking him (Have you no shame people?!? :p), but few who changed their minds on him. The fact there's less "I hate Raki" posts can be for a number of reasons - the changing readership of the forums, as well as your own vociferous response to anyone who utters any words against him (honestly... neg rep for disliking the guy...).

Just because no one bothers to stand up to your views anymore, doesn't necessarily mean your views are mainstream. It could just as well simply mean that you made it a nuisanse enough opposing your thoughts to segrate yourselves into a like minded group.

This isn't just limited to Raki either. It applies to theories here too. For example, months and months ago, some people thought that Priscilla would join the ghosts. Well, I had my say, said what I thought would happen, and let people continue to aspouse their own theories. People discussed, and discussed, and discussed... fast forward to sometime in the last 2 months and someone recently posted something along the lines of: "as of a few months ago, nearly all of us thought Priscilla would join the ghosts". What's left to do than to roll your eyes? Sure a lot of the discussion was about that - but those who didn't believe it had their say early and let the matter go. From reading those chapter threads though, you'd swear the view was a consensus though from the sheer number of posts.

(Just to note - I'm not critisizing the theory [despite never having agreed with it] - I've been wrong on many theories myself and theorizing is most of the fun here. I'm simply using it to show how it can be made to appear there is a consensus when some of the regular posters repeat something often enough.)

;3156270']No offense but people are starting to think that about you. Your repetitive I hate Raki, blah blah blah. Just saying. ;)

Oh no! Please no! Anything but that! Whatever shall I do?!? :upset:
:rolleyes: Honestly - if you don't like my posts, just ignore them. I'm not forcing you to read them, so feel free to do as you like. If the only thing you're noticing in my posts is Raki bashing, you're missing 95% of the content anyways.

evil_kenshin

2010-07-24, 05:42

As for me, I could go either way. If I were forced to lay down money on one or another outcome, based on Yagi's pattern so far I'd say "redemption + death" but considering that she's a much more important character than say, Riful or Isley (more important to the plot, not necessarily to any given fan), it's pretty up in the air. She could be used to counter his redemptive themes or to solidify them.

(Ps. Thanks for the link, Joe_fh! :D)

Agreed. Redemption doesn't suit her that much just the same i'm against the theory a few people have posted about her reverting back to being a claymore. Based on her own personality when she was a claymore + her own instability all that would happen is a) she re-awakens out of shock or b) she kills herself for all the lives she took (she had a black & white mentality on good and evil)

I'd personally prefer that the only form of redemption she has is something as she is dying rather than any actions in themselves (e.g suddenly fighting on the ghosts side).

@cyclone , you can tell your view is the minority based on group numbers you said it youself members of the "i hate raki" fanclub is 13 (most are members who have not shown up for along time ), on the other hand the raki followers fanclub has 31 , so a big difference. If u wish to pretend in your mind that everyone secretly hates Raki but my own opinions causes them to hide it then you are free to do so.

I was actually referring to comments I have read on the other forums such as OM & MF who have said that their view on Raki had changed after the timeskip.

clarakiss~

2010-07-24, 05:47

where is gangsta ?:heh:

spanksta and i are best pals. even he says guud things about raki quite often in the irc. :p lol

alovelyburn

2010-07-24, 05:52

Agreed. Redemption doesn't suit her that much just the same i'm against the theory a few people have posted about her reverting back to being a claymore. Based on her own personality when she was a claymore + her own instability all that would happen is a) she re-awakens out of shock or b) she kills herself for all the lives she took (she had a black & white mentality on good and evil)

Characterwise, I can see ways it could be done. If she got her previous morality back, for example, Yagi could have her devote herself to atonement instead of killing herself. Another classic story trope. But plotwise it just seems like that would really unbalance the series due to her ridiculous power.

Turning her back to her Claymore self might address the power problem (assuming she returned to the power level she had as a rookie Claymore instead of her ultimate potential or anything like it)... but even then, it seems like that would really be playing with fire considering that if she ever awakened again everyone would be in a really bad situation... again.

About the only way I can see her getting out of the series alive is if they somehow depower her. But who knows, Yagi's pretty twisty.

evil_kenshin

2010-07-24, 05:58

Characterwise, I can see ways it could be done. If she got her previous morality back, for example, Yagi could have her devote herself to atonement instead of killing herself. Another classic story trope. But plotwise it just seems like that would really unbalance the series due to her ridiculous power.

Turning her back to her Claymore self might address the power problem (assuming she returned to the power level she had as a rookie Claymore instead of her ultimate potential or anything like it)... but even then, it seems like that would really be playing with fire considering that if she ever awakened again everyone would be in a really bad situation... again.

About the only way I can see her getting out of the series alive is if they somehow depower her. But who knows, Yagi's pretty twisty.

It may be possible in the future that there is something like a stronger form of yoki suppression pills that permanently suppress an AB's hunger + ability to transform (though I have no idea what a normal yoki suppression pills effects on a AB would be)

It would feel odd though Priscilla suddenly being good and she would face alot of distrust from all claymores for what she is which may throw her on the bad side again (that if everything still thinks she is a villain that she may as well act like a villain)

The best form of atonement she could perform at her level of power would be to get sent over to the mainland & stop the war one way or another (kill the leaders of both sides + demand they cease fire or she will kill them all)

Luminion Lancer

2010-07-24, 07:30

Honestly - if you don't like my posts, just ignore them. I'm not forcing you to read them, so feel free to do as you like. If the only thing you're noticing in my posts is Raki bashing, you're missing 95% of the content anyways.

-Small problem there; this a forum, a place where regardless of the intent, people are going to read what you posted. You may not be forcefully telling people to pay attention to you but chances are, someone is bound to read your posts and that still falls under your responsibility to appear as "civil" as possible. Asking people to ignore your posts after you've said your piece isn't going to fly because that's like saying you want your views to go unchallenged. As for the Raki bashing note the bolded below.

*sigh*
You have a very strange definition of attack. The only person I meant to be negative about was Raki - and by my standards, not even that much. If anyone is attacking anyone, it's you attacking me for daring not to like that idiot.

-Just because someone who likes Raki is stating his opinion does not mean they are attacking you. Like I said, your posts are your responsibility, just like mine is here. The problem is that even when you are claiming innocense, you are still posting and promoting your view without keeping it in check like the bolded part.

Not only that, but you continue to persist this. To me, because I vehemently disagree with it, it was/is a provocative statement. To you it's not, because you agree with it. In all the posts I've read, I can't recall more than one or maybe two where someone claimed to change their opinion of him post time skip. What there is, I admit, a whole bunch more people now who post openly liking him (Have you no shame people?!? :p), but few who changed their minds on him. The fact there's less "I hate Raki" posts can be for a number of reasons - the changing readership of the forums, as well as your own vociferous response to anyone who utters any words against him (honestly... neg rep for disliking the guy...).

-Good ideas until we get to the bolded points. You're free to hate what you want about the series, that goes without question. But you seem to be unaware that the bolded points you add in cause you to lose credibility. Joking or not, addressing people (in the bolded manner) that have stated their stance will cause them to post something in opposition to what you have said. The post would be fine provided you didn't add otherwise unnecessary complaints (none want to hear about what your views are causing to your reputation on these forums).

Just because no one bothers to stand up to your views anymore, doesn't necessarily mean your views are mainstream. It could just as well simply mean that you made it a nuisanse enough opposing your thoughts to segrate yourselves into a like minded group.

-The same could be said about the reverse too. Just because the majority seems to think favourably about a certain character, it doesn't mean that the majority is wrong in their thinking. Rather, if it is the majority that seems to have moved on from the days of old, they probably do not want to be constantly reminded of it. Its like an anti-Nazi protestor ever endlessly stating arguments against the Nazi regime despite it no longer existing and the world having recovered from the tragedies of WWII. Or to put it in a bit more relevant way: it would be like complaining that Rigald needs to suffer despite having been dead for a long time. The theory portion of your post I left out because these are the portions that are bound to get you opposition. Just my 2 cents.

Shiek927

2010-07-24, 08:16

What.The.Heck :heh:

I was not intending for this to go so far, nor was I intending for my post to be considered provocative; I was merely stating, what I believe, to be an accurate observation: that times have changed in the way people view the characters.

My post really wasn't even about Raki as much as it was about this point. A year ago for example, If I said that I liked Clarice, people would have looked at me with skepticism, uninterest, and laughter. Now, people either agree with me, or they respect my opinion regardless.

That's the change: people are more into and appreciative of more characters, and people are not so ":rolleyes::eyebrow::eyespin::twitch::uhoh: :heh:" about other people liking characters that they themselves may not like, which I think is the best change.

All I said was, that he has grown into a popular character which is undeniable; I never said that he has grown into everyone's favorite character. Both of you, Cyclone and Kenshin, are seemingly failing to read my post as I intended and are just using it as an excuse to have a Pro/Anti-Raki war with eachother. You both can live or dislike whatever characters you want, but please don't use my post as an excuse if you're missing my point.

That said; I'm promptly staying out of it, though I will use what Cyclone said about his dislike for Claire/Raki because the older-woman/younger-boy thing is questionable to him, to post my own views on the matter here, since it's different(http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2688342&postcount=2601). I personally believe it's one of my best posts I've made on the website, so I like posting it every now and then.

I will say this though: Cyclone, don't say something like "I don't care if people read my posts" because that's just downright silly and a lie. I can't believe you like spending your time here, collecting and posting your thoughts consistantly, and not caring if people even what you say a second look.

As for Priscilla, while Raciella joining the Ghosts has basically faded away, it's still possible she will have an alliance with the Ghosts, the same way it's possible she may de-power into a half-awakened. I've already gone into several views and theories on her future in this thread, but for the most part, I've basically made it clear that I am a fan of hers and don't want her to die, so my preferred theories are the ones that doesn't end in her death.

I believe the most likely route that will be taken is one that I said before which is similar to the anime: that Claire will "defeat" Priscilla, but will not go in for the kill for whatever reason. I don't think it's possible, nor am I crazy for it, but I still think it's what will probably end up happening so fans will feel some appease if Claire beats Priscilla in combat.

haegar

2010-07-24, 09:31

since changing opinions were mentioned I shall come out of hiding and add to the mix of emotions and opinions that while I used to dislike Raki a lot, since the timeskip he has in the very least become a much more interesting character. I shall wait on calling him likeable till I see what the Org turns him into :naughty: :heh: :D

I should also like to add that it is my feeling that some people take this topic way to personal. I'll leave it to you to feel adressed or not :p

Shiek927

2010-07-24, 09:41

I should also like to add that it is my feeling that some people take this topic way to personal. I'll leave it to you to feel adressed or not

What can I say, Raki has that effect on people :heh:.

Why, I don't know, but the kid's like a nuclear bomb that's waiting to go off :heh:.

evil_kenshin

2010-07-24, 09:56

I believe the most likely route that will be taken is one that I said before which is similar to the anime: that Claire will "defeat" Priscilla, but will not go in for the kill for whatever reason. I don't think it's possible, nor am I crazy for it, but I still think it's what will probably end up happening so fans will feel some appease if Claire beats Priscilla in combat.

sorry shiek didn't mean to hijack your post if thats how you took it :heh:

Unless im mistaken , Priscilla died in the video game which may count as more "cannon" if thats the term (tried to check up on it but there is no faq in english ), but in the game though when she transforms into her pure yoki form all her sense of self disappears (perhaps an early hint of the destroyer? or just a coincidence).

I found it interesting that the video game did not follow the same idea as the anime & may technically be more official since im not sure if yagi had more direct involvement in the video game than the anime (i know he didn't have to much to do with the anime creation)

so you could be right, a similar ending to the anime or possibly more closer to the video game (or it may go on a totally different angle all together) but I don't want claymore finishing any time soon :p

Shiek927

2010-07-24, 10:00

evil_kenshin

2010-07-24, 10:08

Roflmao, Kenshin, the game was an even bigger joke then the anime. You just can't make Claymore into a side-scroller. Their's no way the game could ever concievably be considered canon; I haven't seen any evidence that Yagi was involved because, if he was, he would make the game follow the manga, not deviant even more then the anime.

The game was just a cash-in for the fans, plain and simple.

Yes, that's partly why I dislike any thoughts of Priscilla dying; because her death would be the final straw in Claymore's ending. If she ever does die, she needs to die right when the manga is basically ending for it to even feel good. She is one of the final bastions that has been around since the very beginning.

Don't worry ;) :)

Darn oh well guess it was questionable how Priscilla turned into a form of pure yoki in the first place lol.

now if only they make a real claymore game on the HD console's (and a spin off for the wii) that follows the storyline

with a route for all the main/central characters or the option to play as them atleast .

Well its a fair enough opinion about Priscilla, but I just hope that if she does switch to the good side that its a gradual shift rather than sudden or it will feel extremely forced.

Shiek927

2010-07-24, 10:25

evil_kenshin

2010-07-24, 10:30

Shiek927

2010-07-24, 10:34

Agreed and similar to GTA attacking humans raises your "threat level" or whatever it will be called. when you fill it up you have 4 claymores sent to execute you irrespective if your a claymore or an AB.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2492980&postcount=744

A longer post I made on the matter.

Ryus' idea as well, in which mine was based off of(http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2426140&postcount=77)

limao

2010-07-24, 11:31

Shiek927

2010-07-24, 12:01

I really disagree ppl saying yagi's drawings improved lately....i really liked much more the drawings of pieta and adjacent arcs...there's something that seems odd to my eyes in this current chapters, no longer have a smooth view looking at them like before...

You gotta be crazy! :uhoh:

The Volume 1 drawings look downright stock practically. Pieta was the turning point when his art truly blossomed and became his own.

I mean, just like at the insane stuff he's come up with in recent chapters; was their anything like that in the beginning?

Ryuken

2010-07-24, 12:03

Well, I think that his drawings had indeed improved lately and also his ideas.:)

limao

2010-07-24, 12:14

I keep the drawings open for you...but the ideas omg...they are really poor atm...its pris here pris there...honestly...thats really poor plot...guess it couldnt be helped...its nearly impossible to match the first part of the story that made claymore famous...again :p

Solace

2010-07-24, 13:05

I mean, just like at the insane stuff he's come up with in recent chapters; was their anything like that in the beginning?

Easily one of his best earlier works was Jean's awakened form. The amount of detail in that panel is staggering.

Ryus

2010-07-24, 13:53

-Wow, seems like people really are going to be affected by OM dissolving. But here's a bit of hope: for every site that gets tanked, another one eventually surfaces to take its place. Problem is that finding them takes a bit of work. Personally though, I am not surprised OM is getting torn down. These days there are far more copyright Nazis than ever. You just know there's some guy in an office somewhere, getting pissed off that people can read manga in peace, and for free no less.

-About the chapter (so glad I began reading the series yesterday morning); is anyone else hoping Priscilla gets done in? I know I am new to this but from all the 100+ chapters I read, I really want little miss Horned-devil to bite the dust. She's just not interesting to look at all. Everything that's thrown at her she brushes off like nothing. Not a scratch, no permanet injury, not even a shred of fear or surprise. Hell, it took an infected Dauf just to destroy half her body (the most "injury" we ever saw her sustain) and she just walked it off after sighing for bilionth time. If this merged Destroyer is not enough to put a dent into her otherwise untochable immortality, then it is really difficult to imagine anyone else taking her down.

-On a side note: Clare will likely recover her body like she did when the Destroyer awakened the 1st time. She was absorbed into it already but pulled herself out. She can do it again (preferrably after Priscilla is gone).

First time meeting you... Glad you enjoyed Claymore and I don't find it surprising at all that you read it in a days period.

I'll won't bother quoting all your posts (too long :heh:)... however to sum up I agree. I like Priscilla as a villain and for Clare's sake I hope she dies. I don't see her dying quite yet though, she seems to need some more developing before that (plus I see Yagi as doing just that). So I feel he has more story to tell with her.

I honestly see Alicia and Beth as a bigger threat to Priscilla then Dauf was. There is a reason why she killed them so quickly. They weren't just smashing her to no effect but chopping off limbs, knocking her off balance, and then going straight for the head (which is why Priscilla just killed Alicia). Potentially they where the bigger threat... total damage wise they where about on par with Duaf.

I'm reading the stuffs around here but I found nothing like about the theory that I had discovered today. ( I hope none got similar ideas on me about the matter)

We are very much fond on what will happen the destroyer, Priscilla, and Clare. But a danger is rising between the survivors of the destroyers (Yuma,Cynthia, Deneve, and Helen).

Wonder why DIETRICH be with THEM, SEEING ALL THE EVENTS HAPPENING AROUND??????

I GOT A BAD FEELING THAT BY THE NEXT CHAPTERS THE ORGANIZATION"S MOVE AGAINST THE GHOST OF THE NORTH WILL BE BROUGHT UPON BY THE INFORMATION GATHERED BY DIETRICH!!!!!!!!!

The lost of the organizations only eye, Renee, make them in havoc about WHAT IS GOING ON ESP. ON THE FIGHT WITH THE DESTROYER. IT IS BASICALLY THEIR MOVE TO SEND ONE CLAYMORE AS THE EYE IN REPLACEMENT TO RENEE........ THAT IS DIETRICH-------- Claymore 8, TRACKER DIETRICH!!!!!

WE MUST ALSO NOTE THAT AMONG ALL CLAYMORES, DIETRICH HAS THE HIGH LOYALTY TO THE ORGANIZATION. IT IS OBVOIUS THAT SHE WILL TELL ALL SHE KNOW TO THE ORG. Poor thing the wise Deneve and Cynthia never notice it as the chapter speaks.

WE ALL KNOW THAT SHE IS FREE NOW FROM THE DEBT SHE HAVE ON DENEVE AND HELEN ( Since he able to report to the organization and never got beheaded there). So she is free to tell what she can for the org.

We must also examine dietrich words upon meeting yuma " I will return the debt in double" That means she is free from the lock of not speaking by helping the ghost of the north survive the attack of the destroyer.

I got a theory why miria, tabitha, and galatea never got in and help clare, deneve and the rest. By the time the destroyer attacked, those in Rabona are NOW FIGHTING WITH THE CLAYMORES OF THE ORGANIZATION. The reason of fighting is to bring back the candidate to be no.1 BLOOD-EYE MIATA.

I can conclude that the organization by this time is not weakened as what we might think. It doesn't matter if they lose beth and alicia, by this Time they got a good specimen on the Destroyer, will take miata, got the information on the ghost of the north, esp. clare, and most especially, got the NEXT STRONGEST, MALE CLAYMORE, ............... RAKI!!!!!!!!!

First off all the new gen says that... from Audrey to Dietrich (all Dietrich has done differently is saying she'd never lie to them). This I feel is just them being trained to respond that way. She could betray them but she doesn't have the power to do much at the moment or once everyone recovers... the worst she is is an intel gatherer and Deneve and Helen are already aware of this so won't tell her anything vital.

On a humorous note I think it'd be awesome if Dietrich is the girl whom told Clare about the Teresa and Clare statue just grown up. :heh:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2492980&postcount=744

A longer post I made on the matter.

Ryus' idea as well, in which mine was based off of(http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2426140&postcount=77)

I remember that post. My thought have evolved a bit from that but are still based on it too. I just love the idea of the org hunting you down for going off mission but that you could do it if you wanted to :heh:

I really disagree ppl saying yagi's drawings improved lately....i really liked much more the drawings of pieta and adjacent arcs...there's something that seems odd to my eyes in this current chapters, no longer have a smooth view looking at them like before...

Yagi's drawings have really started to improve since volume 3. He's had some great panels before Pieta... though he had quite a few great one on Pieta. I get what your saying since his style has slightly changed since Pieta but I think it is for the best unlike you. Either way though it is viewers choice so I respect your thinking but just disagree.

Well, I think that his drawings had indeed improved lately and also his ideas.:)

Agreed... both the art and many of the ideas have improved a lot since the early days. Yagi's always been good with the characters stories but the over arcing plot has really improved.

Easily one of his best earlier works was Jean's awakened form. The amount of detail in that panel is staggering.

http://i39.tinypic.com/29gn6yq.gif I concur!

haegar

2010-07-24, 17:11

http://i39.tinypic.com/29gn6yq.gif I concur!

yeah, me too...I once tried beginning masking that panel for mmv ... I gave up after hours and having done like...dunno .... a tenth of her left wing? :heh:

Luminion Lancer

2010-07-24, 17:31

The best way to make a Claymore game would be a GTA-style free-roaming world where you can go where you want, when you want. Do assignments for the Organization, freely awakening whenever you want, joining factions(such as the Abyssals) if you wish....it's your world.

PC/Xbox/PS3 is the best option.

-There was 1 game back on the NDS which was a "side-scrolling platformer beat'em-up" which as far as I know was very negatively received. But I do agree on the overall idea you got there. You start the game as a fresh-faced Claymore (whose appearance you customize yourself). Complete missions to raise your rank in the Organization or choose to become an Awakened and ravage the lands. The biggest problem though is not the combat or the story, but the constriction of choices. For instance, if you choose to awaken, what would determine your appearance? How would you fight in that form and so on? Same for your human form (we got Yoki-based attacks to create). You could make the player pick an already established character but of course, that limits potential freedom. Decisions, decision.

First time meeting you... Glad you enjoyed Claymore and I don't find it surprising at all that you read it in a days period.

-Tell me about it. I started chapter 1 at 8:00 a.m and when I next looked at my clock, it was 7:00 p.m and I had just finished chapter 100. Goes without saying I had to stop and get some food in my stomach :heh:.

clarakiss~

2010-07-24, 20:33

@ fukitsu - wowza~ that long huh? 11 hours to read 100 chapters. the longest i lasted in reading a manga was 30 chapters and taht's it. :heh:

but.. but if a certain "character" was the leading character in claymore~ *winks*, i would've done it too. XD lol :p :heh: :eyespin:

Shiek927

2010-07-24, 21:02

-There was 1 game back on the NDS which was a "side-scrolling platformer beat'em-up" which as far as I know was very negatively received. But I do agree on the overall idea you got there. You start the game as a fresh-faced Claymore (whose appearance you customize yourself). Complete missions to raise your rank in the Organization or choose to become an Awakened and ravage the lands. The biggest problem though is not the combat or the story, but the constriction of choices. For instance, if you choose to awaken, what would determine your appearance? How would you fight in that form and so on? Same for your human form (we got Yoki-based attacks to create). You could make the player pick an already established character but of course, that limits potential freedom. Decisions, decision.

-Tell me about it. I started chapter 1 at 8:00 a.m and when I next looked at my clock, it was 7:00 p.m and I had just finished chapter 100. Goes without saying I had to stop and get some food in my stomach :heh:.

I agree. You start out as a faceless character in whatever generation you want(though perhaps you start on a default one) but as you progress, you meet with the manga characters and unlock them, allowing you to play as them as you see fit: whether following the events of the mangaor deviating.
For example I can only imagine what would happen if Teresa or Claire abandoned Claire or raki. Sorry for the butchered post I'm using a cellphone.

evil_kenshin

2010-07-24, 21:58

s. The biggest problem though is not the combat or the story, but the constriction of choices. For instance, if you choose to awaken, what would determine your appearance? How would you fight in that form and so on? Same for your human form (we got Yoki-based attacks to create). You could make the player pick an already established character but of course, that limits potential freedom. Decisions, decision.

It would need to be set based on levelling up scheme. Perhaps similar to games where you have a branching tree of abilities as you level up, that the awakened form is set based on each branch (so say a branch based on yoki manipulation gets you one form, one based on brute strength another etc)

Luminion Lancer

2010-07-24, 22:18

@ fukitsu - wowza~ that long huh? 11 hours to read 100 chapters. the longest i lasted in reading a manga was 30 chapters and taht's it. :heh:

-Actually this isn't my record yet :p. You should have seen me read a series from start to finish in 12 hours. Granted the series was MAR but it was had a good pace and fair lenght for a shounen series.

I agree. You start out as a faceless character in whatever generation you want(though perhaps you start on a default one) but as you progress, you meet with the manga characters and unlock them, allowing you to play as them as you see fit: whether following the events of the mangaor deviating.
For example I can only imagine what would happen if Teresa or Claire abandoned Claire or raki. Sorry for the butchered post I'm using a cellphone.

-Deviating shouldn't matter so much if for the purpose of the story you follow your own Claymore. But, because certain rules have to be followed, namely the Calymore ranks, it is difficult to weave another character into the story easily. For instance, say you are to start in Teresa's generation. Your Claymore rank can go from 47 up to about 6. But in Clare's generation there are not many spots open until the Northern campaign, but I would imagine you would want to participate in that battle, yet there MUST only 24 of them and all of them have established ranks. An easy solution to that would be to make you desert your assinged region in order to help in the campaing but that's a bit of a stretch. Clarice's generation is about the only time you can be allowed to reach rank 1 because Alicia and Beth get killed. Its just a little too complex to pull off smoothly without having to change a lot of the events upside-down. But I guess none of us here would care about the story structure when we actually get an oportunity to be part of the Claymore universe?

-P.S: That is about the most legible post made on a cell I have ever seen. Good job.

It would need to be set based on levelling up scheme. Perhaps similar to games where you have a branching tree of abilities as you level up, that the awakened form is set based on each branch (so say a branch based on yoki manipulation gets you one form, one based on brute strength another etc)

-So something similar to MMORPGs or something like in inFamous (based on good/bad karma). That could work, though there would need to be additional factors like (type of fighter, choices made and at what time). But I like the idea. I kinda want to have my own saber-tooth tiger chimera of an awakened but now I'm just getting ahead of myself.

Cyclone

2010-07-25, 00:05

-Small problem there; this a forum, a place where regardless of the intent, people are going to read what you posted. You may not be forcefully telling people to pay attention to you but chances are, someone is bound to read your posts and that still falls under your responsibility to appear as "civil" as possible. Asking people to ignore your posts after you've said your piece isn't going to fly because that's like saying you want your views to go unchallenged. As for the Raki bashing note the bolded below.

You are confusing civil and opinionated.
I am perfectly civil to you. I am also of the opinion that Raki is the anti-christ.
You can't expect that you can say in effect that "Raki is great" freely, and expect no one to mention that they have a different opinion. And let's face it, since I do have a different opinion, and it's 100% different from yours, one of us must be wrong, right? Do you expect me to hold an opinion which I believe to be wrong? Of course not! Therefore, I am convinced you are wrong. Ergo, I will point it out and try to get you on the correct path :p

As for your bolded notes - they honestly made me laugh. I really have been too mild in my posts lately if that's the best you can do to try and claim offense...
When I claim that Raki lovers vehemently and proactively try to shut down dissent by shouting people down and giving neg rep, I have ample evidence to back this up - I've been neg repped twice now for my remarks about him, and as your own posts show, tolerance to people calling Raki an idiot is very low. To claim that this valid argument is somehow "Raki bashing" is quite humorous.

I stand by each of highlighted comments - indeed, it seems you cherry picked the best parts :)

-Just because someone who likes Raki is stating his opinion does not mean they are attacking you. Like I said, your posts are your responsibility, just like mine is here. The problem is that even when you are claiming innocense, you are still posting and promoting your view without keeping it in check like the bolded part.

I never believed Shiek927 was attacking me. You on the other hand, in repremanding me for speaking my opinion of Raki however, is another story.

-Good ideas until we get to the bolded points. You're free to hate what you want about the series, that goes without question. But you seem to be unaware that the bolded points you add in cause you to lose credibility. Joking or not, addressing people (in the bolded manner) that have stated their stance will cause them to post something in opposition to what you have said. The post would be fine provided you didn't add otherwise unnecessary complaints (none want to hear about what your views are causing to your reputation on these forums).

Well, at least you recognised it as humor. Congrats.
Next step is occasionally cracking a smile - we'll leave that for homework.

-The same could be said about the reverse too. Just because the majority seems to think favourably about a certain character, it doesn't mean that the majority is wrong in their thinking. Rather, if it is the majority that seems to have moved on from the days of old, they probably do not want to be constantly reminded of it. Its like an anti-Nazi protestor ever endlessly stating arguments against the Nazi regime despite it no longer existing and the world having recovered from the tragedies of WWII. Or to put it in a bit more relevant way: it would be like complaining that Rigald needs to suffer despite having been dead for a long time. The theory portion of your post I left out because these are the portions that are bound to get you opposition. Just my 2 cents.

Gee - That didn't take long to mention Nazis - usually it takes at least 3-5 back and forths. Further proof of Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) I guess.

I merely pointed out an alternate possibility to explain the fact that there seem to be less Raki hate posts now. I have as little evidence for my theory as you guys have for the theory that Raki is now more popular.

My post really wasn't even about Raki as much as it was about this point. A year ago for example, If I said that I liked Clarice, people would have looked at me with skepticism, uninterest, and laughter. Now, people either agree with me, or they respect my opinion regardless.

You bring up an interesting point. My opinion on Clarice has not changed all that much either (who knows - maybe I am indeed a Claymore troglodyte). I mean what has happened in the last year which should make me think better of her? She decided not to kill my favorite character afterall? Gee - thanks. About the only good thing she's done in the last 12 months was moon the readers. She's still a selfish coward. She's at least changing in the right direction thanks to Galatea-sama's influence, but, honestly, that's not all that much...

What exactly makes you moderate your opinions on her? The fact that there are others who are worse than her? That she's been laying low for a few chapters now? That she's not as big or pressing a problem as Priscilla right now? In my opinion, there's very little that Clarice herself initiated that should make a reader moderate their views on her. Self initiated actions are the only thing which change my opinion on characters (and in story time, almost no time at all has passed in the last year of publishing, so she doesn't even get any brownie points for doing nothing bad for a long period of time).

I will say this though: Cyclone, don't say something like "I don't care if people read my posts" because that's just downright silly and a lie. I can't believe you like spending your time here, collecting and posting your thoughts consistantly, and not caring if people even what you say a second look.

I didn't say "people". Of course since I go to the trouble of typing a response to a post, I'd like the post to be appreciated by people. Any one given individual however is a different story. If my posts are disliked by someone, then I'm not going to tie them to a chair, prop their eyelids open with tooth picks, and torture them into reading it. If certain individuals want to opt out - I'm fine with that.

At the same time, I respect the views of some posters more than others. Yours, for example, I've always found interesting and well thought out. Fukitsu Naruto has less of a track record, and a result, if I am to be totally honest, his/her opinion about my posts does not weight equally yet.

but.. but if a certain "character" was the leading character in claymore~ *winks*, i would've done it too. XD lol :p :heh: :eyespin:

lol.
To each their own. :)

Royal Blue Nazi

2010-07-25, 00:44

Well, speaking of Nazis, I guess somebody here is calling me! hehehehehhe(^_^)

Well, weither somebody hates or likes raki, or even we are getting hot in here (phew, sweat!!!), I will prefer to see how Master Yagi turns the tides of his story. Can't wait what will turn to everyone of the characters!!!!

evil_kenshin

2010-07-25, 01:12

-So something similar to MMORPGs or something like in inFamous (based on good/bad karma). That could work, though there would need to be additional factors like (type of fighter, choices made and at what time). But I like the idea. I kinda want to have my own saber-tooth tiger chimera of an awakened but now I'm just getting ahead of myself.

another possible option is you can pre chose your awakened form sort of like in an RPG where you can modify your character's looks at the start. Though unlike with a claymore, your awakened form can be anything in size from Priscilla sized to destroyer sized.

The world would need to be both huge + no loading screens for it to work effectively.

Shiek927

2010-07-25, 13:17

another possible option is you can pre chose your awakened form sort of like in an RPG where you can modify your character's looks at the start. Though unlike with a claymore, your awakened form can be anything in size from Priscilla sized to destroyer sized.

The world would need to be both huge + no loading screens for it to work effectively.

Now where is the fun in that? :p

While imagination is definitely a part of it, I would prefer if your control of what your awakened form is just as minimal as the characters, and of course, relative to your power etc etc. Sorry using cellphone.

Shiek927

2010-07-25, 13:36

Fukitsu while I thank you for defending me...when I read that post I thought it was directed at kenshin...:/

I take no personal offense for anything these two(cyclone and kenshin) numbskulls said in their argument or in that they started because of my post. I feel obligated however to tell you that I am promptly staying out of it because it has apparently ended on its own: kenshin is talking about the game and so am I.

Forget about it ;) let's just move to something worth talking about :)

Luminion Lancer

2010-07-25, 14:15

Forget about it ;) let's just move to something worth talking about :)

-Indeed. One thing I am a bit vexed with at the moment is Clare's merger with the Destroyer. Since she is now a part of it, can it be safe to assume that she is an Awakened Being herself? But the 1st time she recovered from it awakening she was nude (like other ABs) but had not reverted to her original hair/eye colour. But maybe the Destroyer is special since it was stated that it does not need to eat living beings (flesh and guts in this case), but it just causes destruction? So when Clare inevitably returns, maybe she won't need to either?

-Actually looking back, the Destroyer has not shown any regard for devouring things at all. It shows no sense of self or any other form of intelligence. Maybe that's why Clare can cause it to attack Priscilla and possibly tame it?

MalakTawus

2010-07-25, 14:16

I don't know, even as a human priscilla was IMO somehow twisted because i think that she murdered theresa as a human being and not as an awakened.
This is like saying that Claire stabbed Jean as a human being......
When Prissy murdered Teresa she had obviously already losed her mind,negating this is pure nonsense imo.

Luminion Lancer

2010-07-25, 14:25

When Prissy murdered Teresa she had obviously already losed her mind,negating this is pure nonsense imo.

-Granted but its not like Priscilla was mentaly stable to begin with. Even when working with the Organization she showed a very inflexible (black and white) view on all things, which bordered on fanaticism. It only got worse because she could not accept her defeat at Teresa's hands (someone she considered evil) which was the trigger to her awakening.

MalakTawus

2010-07-25, 14:31

Granted but its not like Priscilla was mentaly stable to begin with.
Yes,but that doesn't mean that she doesn't deserve to be saved,afterall the reason that she was mentally instable is 'cause she was a victim too.
And anyway before fear triggered her instability she was quite normal (a bit obsessed with juistice,but nothing really crazy).

Luminion Lancer

2010-07-25, 15:00

Yes,but that doesn't mean that she doesn't deserve to be saved,afterall the reason that she was mentally instable is 'cause she was a victim too.

-Define "saved". I mean, do you want her to recover her senses somehow and join with the Ghosts against the Organization or do you want her fate to be similar to Ophelia? Or do you want her final act of redemption (if it is possible) to come from self-sacrifice after coming to terms with what she's done? Victim though she may well be, one cannot deny she ended a lot of lives (off screen), so its a bit of a mixed bag.

MalakTawus

2010-07-25, 15:33

Imo it doesn't really matter how she'll be saved (IF she'll be saved),my point is that even if her awakend being is evil (well,from an human point of veiw,afterall even as an AB Yagi has never shown her attack first.....and about the humans that she eats,well she has to eat to survive.....) i can't see her as a completely evil being 'cause imo she has an innocent side as well.
It's true that she ended a lot of lives,but she did so in awakend form,so if Claire hypothetically menages to turn her back from her awakening i think she deserves a second chance.
Even Claire or anyone in the ghosts if awaken could kill a lot of people,but that doesn't make them necessarily evil IMO.

haegar

2010-07-25, 15:39

well yagi blurring the boundaries between good and evil has always been on of the points I liked a lot about claymore in general. I have every confidence he'll keep on twisting that angle in ever surpising new ways when it comes to finally resolving the clare/prissy clash.

Cyclone

2010-07-25, 15:43

-Ever heard of something called "Freedom of Speech"? And before you start jumping on that claiming "But you're attacking my freedom to hate Raki", let's get something out of the way right now: I do not care that you hate Raki. You are free to hate him as much as you want. My post to you was a mere notice of certain holes in your arguments that cause you to lose validity in the views you are trying to promote. You know, holes like these here:

*sigh*
Discussing this with you has become rather unpleasant since you seem to be unrelenting with your silly "holier than thou" & "thou should do so-and-so" stances. In these past few posts, I have not stated why I dislike Raki, nor do I care to (as people who's opinions I actually respect would probably not enjoy me re-treading over that old ground again - we've covered that in some of the chapter threads where Raki actually appeared, and have agreed to disagree). Thus, since I'm not presenting any facts, finding holes in my argument should not be that difficult for anybody (congratulations - well done!).

As for the validity of my views that you seem so concerned about (thank you - how terribly sweet of you)... I tried to be delicate in my previous post, but if I must say it, then fine: I simply don't care what YOU think of my views or if you think they are valid. People who know me here have had a long enough track record with my posts that they have made up their minds about my posts long ago, and it's their views I value - not yours (yet).

-Stop. Right. There. I don't expect you to like Raki. I don't even expect my posts to change your opinion about him. What I do expect from you is a level of understanding that all opinions are subjective personal preferences and that not one opinion is more correct than another. As such, there is no "only one opinion is correct, all others are false". Look back a bit; in all of the posts I've made, have I ever said that you are wrong in thinking that Raki is horrible? I certainly don't think I have because I would remeber otherwise. The only time I said anything in regards to Raki's current popularity is when I explained why I like him so much. Beyond that, I said nothing.

Nothing expect that I should keep my mouth shut about Raki being what he is. I really don't like being told what to do (especially from someone I don't know).

-Have I not already addressed to you that nobody here cares about your reputation on these forums? Reputation is your responsibility. How well or poorly you maintain it is entirely reflective upon your own posts and actions. If something is happening to it and you do not like it, then it is your own fault. Do not try to blame others for your misfortune because I do not think anybody here will agree that it is their fault instead and not yours.

You have a very poor understanding of what I said. I am not whining about my reputation (lol - my "misfortune"). What I am saying is that conformance to a "Raki is heaven's gift to the masses" viewpoint is enforced on this forum (through nagging arguments and neg rep). Thus the lack of many other people having opposition posts to Raki is not all that surprising to me.
No worries - no amount of nagging and neg rep will change my mind about him - Yagi himself will have to work a miracle first.

-That is your comment directed at Shiek927 specifically.

Shieky can take care of himself from this numbskull's words :p. I was merely reminding him that not everyone shares his opinions. Then you decided to jump in and complain that my credibility is in danger by saying what i think of Raki. Very nice of you I suppose, but rest assured, next time I have fears about my credibility in your eyes, I'll be sure to message you right away (make sure to check regularly!).

-Even jokes can be misinterperted and considered offensive. Apply some caution when you want to use them is all I am saying.

*groan*
Uh huh... yes dear! I'll be sure to ask for permission first next time.

Since you seem to be giving me so many fine pointers from what I'm sure is your rich life experience about how I should live my life and how I should interact with other people, I'd feel amiss to not try to reciprocate by sharing some of my own admittedly limited experience. Clearly, it'll not be up to your level, but, alas: "Don't give people you don't know the power to offend you". I found it to serve me well in university, grad school, and during my working life now too.

revan5

2010-07-25, 15:51

I take it the Raki hater vs. Raki lover war is back on then. Tis a shame. I had hoped me and Haegar could discuss something else like what the heck is going on in Rabona, why we deserve more Miria/Galatea nude bath scenes, and how to convince manga publishers they're going about it all wrong. I guess you can't always have what you want.

Cyclone

2010-07-25, 15:56

Oh, I'd be more than happy to end it. I'm not planning on replying again.

Personally, I find it a travesty that chapter 100 was not a full color Galatea-sama swimsuit issue, and that Galatea-sama appeared so little in the artbook. I think Duff appeared more times than her. Sometimes I think Yagi-sensei under appreciates her.

[thousandmaster]

2010-07-25, 16:01

Oh, I'd be more than happy to end it. I'm not planning on replying again.

Sure hope so. that includes the raki bashing to, right? :heh:

When is the next chapter going to be released?

Cyclone

2010-07-25, 16:10

Heh - well, I can hardly promise that... ;)
I'll try not to be the first to bring it up though :D

evil_kenshin

2010-07-25, 16:12

haegar

2010-07-25, 16:14

I think Duff appeared more times than her. Sometimes I think Yagi-sensei under appreciates her.

doh. I missed that catastrophic blunder so far. NOW, for the first time, I am rly vexed with yagi. How can he have the indecency to put Dauff's butt over Galatea's cahrming features? That is Kubo style fan-trolling :D :heh: :D

Well, nontheless will order the artbook as soon as I have some cash to spare XD

Luminion Lancer

2010-07-25, 16:17

Yea Riful said it best, that like how humans eat cows yet we don't view it as evil; AB's eating people are not necessary evil (though ones who needlessly kill people for fun though cross the line)

-Sadly that way of thinking if often said by the more dominant party. If cows could strike back, you can bet we'd be on their massive hit-list. Granted we never do see ABs feed on humans (on screen anyway), but regardless they seem to really attack "live" pray and eat them in that state. In the end, it really all falls upon perspective. But I think ABs are a bit more at fault because they can think and make decisions, just like humans. But if you masquerade as a human, then you might as well follow the rules of one.

revan5

2010-07-25, 18:31

Yea Riful said it best, that like how humans eat cows yet we don't view it as evil; AB's eating people are not necessary evil (though ones who needlessly kill people for fun though cross the line)

I would imagine the reason why we view Awakened Beings as evil is because they are eating our own kind, and we, unlike cows, are sentient beings. If cows had invented their own languages, created their own bovine tech, and were as sentient as us, chances are much higher people would view us eating them as "evil". You'll notice that unlike cattle, hunting creatures like elephants is viewed as "evil". Oh sure, you could have elephant farms (which would be rather difficult), but their innate intelligence gives them a more sympathetic treatment than dull cows.

As the saying goes, "An elephant never forgets". You'll notice there tends to be a correlation between a creature's intelligence and us eating it. Oh sure, dogs get eaten in some cultures and are plenty smart, but many find that appalling. When people start treating animals like individuals instead of "mere animals", that's when you notice the morality difference.

BTW, anyone ever notice there's hardly any wildlife in the Claymore world? Where are the deer? Heck, we haven't even seen cattle or cows have we? The only creatures aside from Dragonkin we've yet seen are horses. It makes you wonder if Awakened Beings would prefer cows over people. I know with the amount of meat involved, it would make sense to eat cows first. Perhaps they eat people because other food sources are unavailable.

Korinov

2010-07-25, 18:55

BTW, anyone ever notice there's hardly any wildlife in the Claymore world? Where are the deer? Heck, we haven't even seen cattle or cows have we? The only creatures aside from Dragonkin we've yet seen are horses. It makes you wonder if Awakened Beings would prefer cows over people. I know with the amount of meat involved, it would make sense to eat cows first. Perhaps they eat people because other food sources are unavailable.

This matter was discussed some time ago. I proposed a theory based on efficiency of digestive systems. Wanna hear? :p

Luminion Lancer

2010-07-25, 19:13

BTW, anyone ever notice there's hardly any wildlife in the Claymore world? Where are the deer? Heck, we haven't even seen cattle or cows have we? The only creatures aside from Dragonkin we've yet seen are horses. It makes you wonder if Awakened Beings would prefer cows over people. I know with the amount of meat involved, it would make sense to eat cows first. Perhaps they eat people because other food sources are unavailable.

-Well there was a horse during Raki's trip back to his hometown (the man driving the carriage who warns him of a yoma in the village) if that amounts to anything. Also way back in Chapter 1, the Zaki yoma did say that humans believe themselves to be "on top of the food chain", so that likely implies that there is wildlife and domesticated animals.

Joe_fh

2010-07-25, 21:21

Interesting....the Raki like/dislike thing took so long to finish.
Aaand i think I'll skip the whole Prissy issue as well...no point to talk about it at this point. (or maybe there is but hey we talk about that more or less every chapter...it's similar to the Teresa vs Prissy power level discussions back in the day...but it makes a lot more sense :heh:) Despite it being interesting from personal experience so far everyone has their own opinion on this and it only leads to very long "debates" which for some might be fun (if it's fun for both sides there's no reason to hold back :heh: you might actually see something you never thought of yourself ) Clearly this wasn't the case here. Again no offence to anyone though I'm not quite sure how one can be offended by this in the first place.

Anyways I perosnally don't see ABs eating people as evil. This again depends on your definition of evil so it probably differs with people. But the example with cows is really good. Everyone eats something and kills it in the process - that's how life works. So actually eating to stay alive is normal. Now killing random people/animals etc for fun is evil. Killing anything aside from the times you need to survive is evil.
And I'm sure most people don't ever think about the cows they eat. I mean it's quite different when you have to kill it yourself. If you can avoid it I'm sure most would.
Oh and I think the reason why elephants don't get killed that much is because they aren't a lot of them. Heck if we killed them for their tusks before we sure would kill them for food if we have to.

Oh and an example of an evil AB would be Agatha. She's the first that comes to mind. Even her nick-name suggested she liked killing and it wasn't only for food.

Also since we've only seen ABs and Yoma kill people that's probably their only food supply. There are a couple of reason for that the most convinient of them all being that the MiBs actually need a way to keep people in check. If ABs were eating cows in the remote regions of the island how would the whole project even work? What would Claymores even do? Kill half humasn half yomas that live in peace and grow plants? :heh: After all fear is the easiest way to control people. Also Claymores are implanted with youma flesh just above/around where "the guts" that get eaten are. There probably is a reason for that as well.

So basically if your only food source are people even if you know they are, as revan put it "sentient beings" would you not eat them and die? Would you eat enough only to survive (Prissy and to some extent Riful and Isley) or would you eat until you can eat no more? Sure from a moral point of view you can say eating people s wrong but ehn it comes down to sruvival and you get really hungry it's a whole other story and you can't really be considered evil for surviving.

Oh and before I forget, from the awakenings of Ophelia Prissy and Luciala we can say that after awakening there is intense hunger and they go on a rampage. probably because until that point they never felt hunger and they can't stand it. In other words they didn't destroy whole towns just for fun or because they wanted to.

Shiek927

2010-07-25, 21:51

Joe_fh

2010-07-25, 22:05

Probably true but there was no evidence to support that (that happens to everyone) and I wanted to play it safe :heh: Though even half-awakened claymores mentioned the urges that come with passing the limit and that's not even 90%..
For example there was no indication that Rosemary went on a rampage...but there was no indication she didn't (and it was a bonus chapter that was there just to show us how crazy powerfull Teresa was comapred to an AO so I doubt it's any indication of anything other than it's intended purpose)

clarakiss~

2010-07-25, 22:05

i always took it as when they were all claymores, they ate so little. because of that, their yoma side hunger grew and grew without realizing it.

but when they finally awakened, they felt that intense hunger which they weren't able to detect as a claymore. at least that's what i think. :eyespin:

Aimless

2010-07-26, 02:48

It's more then those three: its no doubt every single awakened being that loses themseilves temporarily before grasping themselves. The waves of emotion and power that spread through you has been described thoroughly and probably affect them all.

"Probably," sure; I'll grant you that. However, we only have three examples of an actual awakening presented to us in the manga - Prissy, Ophelia and Katea (whose awakened life was so short she really doesn't qualify). All of the rest have been presented fait accompli; even Luciela's awakening is seen only in the aftermath. That's a rather small sample size to work from; especially considering the evidence to the contrary that's out there.

Even Ophelia's awakening draws into question this thesis. Sure, she was not exactly sane post-awakening (not that she could have been called sane pre-awakening, either), but random musing about a desire for guts does not a rampage make. Certainly not a rampage in the Priscilla sense of the word.

Next, consider the example of Rosemary. As much as I hate her guts (and will deny her claim to Abyssal status until the day I die), she was by any reckoning a strong awakened. Furthermore, all evidence suggests that not only did she not rampage upon awakening, she also managed to either retain her sanity through the process or regain it almost immediately afterwards. After all, she managed to successfully fool her handler into believing she was still a warrior after having awakened; otherwise, he would never have accepted a black card from her. Had she rampaged or otherwise gone through an extend period of insanity, it is unlikely in the extreme that she could have carried off such a deception.

MalakTawus

2010-07-26, 03:58

I think you are able to avoid a complete rampage only if you have a stronger impulse or motive that stops you:
-for Ophelia that impulse was the huge hate for AB that stopped her from going to eat humans
-for Rosemary it was the desire to kill Teresa that made her hide her awakening (if not, the org wouldn't have sent Teresa to her)
-for Jean it was her strong humanity

....but anyway,with the only exception for Jean, it's quite safe to assume that the rampage wasn't really avoided but only postponed.

Joe_fh

2010-07-26, 06:19

Malak has a point. Ophelia was really out of it since she even let Clare kill her without even fighting back so she, while indeed crazy, had a very strong hate towards ABs and at that time that meant herself as well (that reminds me of another character from another series..)

Jean was indeed very special. She was the first one we've seen who managed to actually turn back from that point and that is really something. Basically we can't count Jean in this due to her strong desire to remain human and resisting evrything.

And again we have Rosemary. As I said above she was only there to show how powerful Teresa actaully was. a couple of chapters ago more people might have argued that she wasn't AO level but after we saw Prissy take out Alicia and Beth in seconds without even being serious...well Rosemary being an AO isn't that strange anymore.
There are a couple of inconsistencies about Rosemary but again the point of that extra chapter was only to show Teresa's power and that was the only way to do it. She was an ex-number one so I would iamgine she could travel around districts thus chose her position carefully to awaken without being noticed. She also sent the black card prior to awekaning and hey we don't even know if she didn't wipe out a town or two. Remember the AB that had destryoed the town when Ophelia showed up (it wasn't even that powerfull yet it killed a lot of people) ? The MiB can't be everywhere and if everyone dies they have no information who did it, and it's not like there aren't ABs out there able to do that.
Overall Rosemary isn't a good example due to the nature of her character,for what was created and the fact that we know nothing about her actual awakening.

As I metioned we only have info about those 3 and Katea (who died so fast we can't even count her as Aimless said) oh and Jean too but her character was again really special so we can't count her as well.
So we're left with the fact that both Luciela and Prissy went on a huge rampage to eat guts,Ophelia who somehow managed not to go even though she wanted to eat (because of her character) and Jean who resisted everything completely but she herself said she was soon going to lose her humanity and become a AB that kills people. Basically one could say that the greater their power the greater their hunger is. We also have information (can't remember which chapter though) that the 3 AOs ramapged across the land until they settled down. So the size of the rampage probably depends on the power of the AB.

And if a ranodm (though qute strong -the one that fought with Ophelia ) AB can destroy a town you can imagine the damage an AO can do. Oh and Prissy's ramapge ended before it was complete since Isley tried to stop her wich ended with her reverted back to her human form and stop eating. It ended with only a few destroyed town which I would imagine is something similiar to what Isley Riful and Luciala did.
In shor every awakening of someone powerful led to a huge ramapge and the only examples of that not happening are ones with characters vital to the development of Clare's character and the story as a whole thus they aren't really the best examples one could find.

Ryuken

2010-07-26, 06:57

Agreed... both the art and many of the ideas have improved a lot since the early days. Yagi's always been good with the characters stories but the over arcing plot has really improved.

Well, this is one reason I said that his ideas had improved, I'm sure no one was expecting this, almost to all of us by surprise.:)
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/Thonash/1zo85uajpg.png

Luminion Lancer

2010-07-26, 18:55

Ryus

2010-07-26, 20:29

-With regards to the awakenings, besides the urge to eat the guts of humans (that seems to be their craving anyway), awakening really doesn't provide many drawbacks. Think about it: the person's yoki seemingly increases, many variations exist for varying tactics, the Claymore can still sense yoki as well as reverting to their original hair colour (allowing them to blend into towns easier). If it weren't for the whole "guts craving" and overall lack of control, they'd be perfect protectors of the people from yoma. Makes me question why the Organization cannot simply create artificial meat for their Awakened Claymores. They got enough knowledge to create swords that neither dull nor break, as well as armour that withstands an awakening. Though they are seemingly making progress with the Abyss Feeders.

I agree and disagree... ABs also seem to have an increased ego. When thrown in with a corrupted mind and that craves human flesh many of them just love to torture others to prove there power over others... just like the yoma do. I mean for what other reason would Priscilla's father have forced her to watch him eat her sister than to prove to himself and her that he could do it. He likely wanted to feel more powerful and special. Now lets look at Dauf loving to torture women for the same bloody reason, to make himself feel more powerful.

I wish Yagi examined this more but when ABs group up they don't seem to care about there teammates getting injured. Only Riful and Dauf have really shown affection and caring about each other (I classify Alicia and Beth as 1 AB with two bodies since there minds where always linked, they just didn't understand that they could be individuals)... every other AB only seems to care about themselves. Even Rigardo didn't seem to care about the members of the army, just there over all fighting power. Now lets look at the 3 ABs that beat up Nina's team... they didn't care about the teammate who's arms had been blown off, in fact they seemed to mock him about it. I don't think a Claymore would ever go that far against a warrior that wounded (except Ophelia but she'd want them to loss control of there yoki so she could kill them as an AB, and this very goal of hers kinda makes her the exception to the rule in my mind)... even against the weakest member, sure they might not care if the other warrior died in battle but I don't see any of the laughing at a mocking a warrior in that position after the fight for the hell of it. Recall that Helen was constantly arguing for Clare not to participate in the first AB hunt since she was too weak and yet back then she didn't like Clare at all... but she still hated the idea of Clare dying.

I personally see Riful's and Dauf's relationship as mutually beneficial since both craved some form of understanding but neither could find it from anyone else, after all Riful was to young to get a man (in that way) from anyone else but Dauf and Dauf was just too moronic and ugly to get anyone else but a desperate girl like Riful. At the end of Witch's Maw/Purgatory of Deepest Depths Riful forgot about Dauf even though he was borderline dead yet in the latest arcs she risked her own life to escape with him and stupidly attacked Priscilla in a fit of rage after she hurt him... so I see there relationship as Yagi just making them far more likable before he killed them (that seems to be Yagi's thing... build them up and kill them at their peek). For this reason I don't see there relationship as proof of them not being too affected by there awakening like many others seem to concluded. At best it proved that Riful learned just how much Dauf meant to her after getting so wounded by Jean. Is this proof of a surviving human trait or an indication that a monster came to realize that they wanted to be with someone? Can we really know either way?

Even that male yoki manipulator stated that he loved being a monster... almost implying his awakening freed his inhibitions or worse. Or was this just a power obsessed man to begin with whom loved the freedom and power he gained upon awakening?

When I look at Hilda and Ophelia I see a clear indication of suicide via another, as does almost everyone else. However Sometimes I do find myself asking is suicide proof of humanity? I mean there has been cases of whales have rebeaching themselves after being saved even after days of starving (you'd think if they where that hungry animal instinct o feed would take over... this clearly implies some thought process behind the rebeaching). I've heard of dogs jumping from third story windows (which wasn't left open) after the death of another dog in the house (strange timing... No? Yes this happened to someones dog that I knew). After thinking about this I went out on the net and did some research and found TONS of other documented cases of animal suicide... http://news.softpedia.com/news/Do-Animals-Commit-Suicide-63441.shtml

So I have to ask myself how many of the things we say is proof of their humanity or proof of there inhumanity... well isn't? Animals love each other, animals prove there domination over others all the time, and animals have emotions too. So just what is the criteria of saying to what degree they're still human?

The real issue with making the ABs want to defend humans isn't just food though... since most seem to enjoy eating there pray. So it might not just be about feeding them but taking the hunt out of the monster without reducing their potential as a weapon form the orgs point of view. Also the org ultimate goal seems to be the end of all monsters... they're craving The Destroyer flesh since she wants to die after whipping out life too, not just her desire to kill.

Sorry for getting all philosophical on you guys :heh: but lets face it when talking about ABs still being human we might as well debate the lines between man and animals... and if we're really feeling brave the lines between man and machine (or in Claymore's case mindless drones) :eyespin:

All we really know of ABs is that they "can" or do (depending on your perspective) act like just humans... but so can many animals too. We know both humans and ABs are animals... the problem comes with defining and/or separating both in terms of the mind (since we know both have different bodies). If you want to reword the question... by how much or in what way does a human mind change after becoming a hybrid and then awakening. We should also ask ourselves in what ways are yoma and ABs different and how they aren't different.

Personally I see ABs losing some of there desire for social groups upon awakening... only 1 male/female relationship, 1 soul-linked sister relationship (Alicia/Beth... Raphaela/Luciela doesn't count since Luciela left Raphaela and on top of that once they meet up again Luciela still acted like Raphaela was just a means to an end), and 1 father and two kids relationship (and this one with a special scent influencing the two ABs involved) really formed any groups based on wanting to be with each other. All the rest was just for completing an objective, odd morals (Rigardo), or staying alive. Yoma seemed to be the same except that they needed the strength of other Yoma way more often than ABs. I also see this helping in there willingness to feed on humans... if not we'd have the whole "I don't wanna eat them" cliché happening all the time. :heh:

This post is getting way too long... so I'll stop. :heh::eyespin::heh: (BTW I seem to be catching a cold... so if I didn't make much sense and rambled on for a bit more than needed maybe that's why :()

Luminion Lancer

2010-07-26, 21:14

-Ryus I'd quote your post but I think that would create a giant wall-o-text so I'll refrain from doing so ;). But to sum-up, I do agree. The universal thing amongst all ABs seems to be a general lack of fear, self-control or any sense of morals (or even humility). Heck, Agatha offered Cid some sexual favours while in the middle of a battle. But I guess any death machine with free will would inevitably notice a flaw with taking orders from shifty men in black that do bugger all for them. Gotta give the Organization some credit though, they are not idiots. They knew Alicia and Beth would turn on them the moment they awakened and they still had a sense of self. But no matter how I look at it, I still cannot shake the fact that the Organization could invent a means to clone humans and use them to keep ABs under control. Make sure that your wolf is well fed and cared for and you can have it live around your sheep. Of course, that's assuming ABs wouldn't just turn on them if for no other reason that "they felt like it".

MalakTawus

2010-07-27, 06:44

Of ourse, that's assuming ABs wouldn't just turn on them if for no other reason that "they felt like it".

......and you'll agree that this eventuality isn't very unlikely.......

Ryuken

2010-07-27, 07:48

......and you'll agree that this eventuality isn't very unlikely.......

It shows that we actually understand very little about the nature of the ABs.:)

Throne Invader

2010-07-27, 08:31

I can just look into this thread and face the fact that I will never ever be able to make posts as intelligent and as long as you guys xD Ryus is certainly amazing :P

Shiek927

2010-07-27, 09:51

I've said this before, but I always saw Awakened Beings as, psychologically, human beings that have more power then they know what to do with it, which explains their general lack of morals, and so on and so forth.

Some posts I made on the matter for those who are interested; beware, I have a unique mindset.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2854648&postcount=600
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2841235&postcount=114
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2854593&postcount=598
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2854716&postcount=601

MalakTawus

2010-07-27, 11:23

I've said this before, but I always saw Awakened Beings as, psychologically, human beings that have more power then they know what to do with it, which explains their general lack of morals, and so on and so forth.
Even if i think i understand what you mean i have to say that i don't agree with your view.From your post it seems like power is the cause for their lack of moral,but this seems a bit strange to me 'cause the warriors don't need to awaken to be incredibly powerful,i mean,there are a lot of "normal" warriors that are EXTREMELY strong and still have a strong moral, and on the contrary there are weak AB with no moral at all.
Imo the AB lack of moral is smply their nature....and some of them seems to have a moral code that they follow,even if it's very different from "human moral".
If instead you meant that ABs seem to BEHAVE like EVIL human beings that have more power then they know what to do with it than i guess i agree.
I read your theory about the change of personality and the fact that ABs keep their original personality.It's a really interesting theory,instead i have always thought that when warriors awakens their original personality is "corrupted" and changed by their yoma influence so imo there is a real change in personality.
The old bonds aren't really carried over in the "new persona",but since ABs keep their memories, it's reason that keeps them alive (infact these old bonds seems to be quite weak,as if there is no real feeling in there).
The only exception to this case seems to be when the original human personality is too strong to be completely changed during the awakening.

Shiek927

2010-07-27, 11:48

If instead you meant that ABs seem to BEHAVE like EVIL human beings that have more power then they know what to do with it than i guess i agree.

Yes, that's what I meant; their is a distinction between Psychology and Personality that must be addressed. Awakened Beings do not "become evil just because they do".

Ryuken

2010-07-27, 14:02

A strange comment that @Shieky, but I like it.:) The distinction between Psychology and Personality is very common in all aspects of like. It can be defined as a dynamic and organized set of characteristics possessed by a person that uniquely influences his or her cognitions, motivations, and behaviors in various situations.:)

Korinov

2010-07-27, 14:38

MalakTawus

2010-07-27, 18:27

their is a distinction between Psychology and Personality that must be addressed.
I see,but it's not so clear if you use the term "Psychology" since it's a concept quite vast and not as confined as "Personality" (that btw it's a mental process included into the psychology).....

revan5

2010-07-27, 22:06

Mmm, let's give it a try.

I don't think ABs just lack morals. Its just that they morals change drastically after awakening. When still claymores, they retain their humanity (at least half :p), but the awakening changes completely their point of view. We're used to feel pity for animals even if we feed on them, but that's maybe because nowadays we don't have to hunt them down personally, kill them ourselves and then proceed to eat.

Besides, the difference in power and age is so huge between ABs and humans that, for the average AB, feeding on and crushing a human town could be the same as a human feeding on and crushing an ant nest.

Interestingly though, we've yet to see an Awakened Being quite as evil as Stalin or Hitler. There are very few paranoid Awakened Beings, perhaps because they're so powerful there is no reason to be paranoid. You'll notice, that despite not caring about losing "useless" Awakened Beings, Isley never actually had that grand of ambitions. He could have enslaved the humans of the north and built a more permanent power base, but to him they were just food. It makes you wonder if Ophelia was truly more evil as a claymore than she ever was Awakened.

While Awakened Beings seem to lose part of themselves, I remain disappointed in their lack of true ambition. What would truly make Claymore interesting is if we were to come upon an upstart claymore who, after the Organization was gone, ruthlessly rose to power. To be honest, Awakened Beings seem to lack the ambition to be truly frightening. It just seems to me if you were ever going to peg an ultimate bad guy to the series, they'd either be another claymore or perhaps a Dragonkin. Priscilla, monstrous though she is, does not command the loyalty of others. Claymores and Dragonkin on the other hand...they seem more than capable of doing that.

I guess to me Awakened Beings may be an evil, but they're an evil utterly lacking in real ambition (see the utter waste of Prissy's abilities these last seven years). Isley seemed to want to rule the island, but how would he have ruled? It seemed to me all he was going to do was annihilate his rivals and then say, "that's it baby, I've made it! Now I'll just eat humans at leisure and relax." Perhaps Dragonkin, unlike Awakened Beings, have this killer instinct when it comes to power. They certainly have better instincts, seeing as how they preferring fighting under a unified tribe in groups.

Luminion Lancer

2010-07-28, 10:27

-Its interesting you bring that up, because now that I look back, nobody in Claymore seems to be evil to the core. Let's see a few examples of the worst of the major entities that are around.

Claymores: Ophelia is by far the most "evil" in nature because she went out of her way to manipulate awakenings, just so that she could kill them without it being an act of mercy (she wanted them to die as monsters, not as humans). Priscilla may have been a zealot death machine as a Claymore but its not like she manipulated others just to have an excuse to kill them. But regardless, when karma caught up to Ophelia and bit her in the ass, she showed enough willpower to accept her death.

The Organization: Ok, they unleash yoma (as per Miria's hypothesis), just so that they can breed monster weapons and get paid for the misfortune they create in the first place. They take people's newborns (Alicia and Beth) and have iron-clad rules to keep their Claymores pretty much enslaved. But at the end of the day, they're doing the job assigned to them. Who knows, maybe these Dragon-kin are so frightening and powerful, that it warrants these actions. And to be fair to the Organization, they try their best to protect humans, even if it is just for the money.

Awakened Beings: Ok so they're Claymores that awaken. They eat humans...and that's about it really. They're little more than yoma in that regard, just way more powerful. They show cunning and tactics, but not really something that can be considered evil. Even if we were to consider kidnapping and experimentation that Riful and Dauf performed, they never did so against humans. Instead, they only targeted other Claymores, who are trained soldiers meant for this kind of thing. And even if that was wrong, Riful merely did so to fight against other ABs like herself (namely Isley who was pushing his own forces just so that he could get Priscilla from the North to the South).

So in a way, its just a grand-scale, bloody 3-way war right now. Damage is done to the combatants mostly with the occasional human bystander caught in the crossfire (which is inevitable). I guess the tue villain of the story has yet to make an entrance...

sonotme_9FedriqSama

2010-07-28, 12:16

Nobody started any fake spoilers yet??? I wanted to know wat kind of wild imagination ppl have....specially after "Clare got absored into the destroyer" cliffhanger

Ryuken

2010-07-28, 21:55

-Its interesting you bring that up, because now that I look back, nobody in Claymore seems to be evil to the core.

That is very much so, even Isley had his emotions checked at times, but in other times he just lets it loose on almost anything at everything, and with outrageous force too.:)

revan5

2010-07-28, 22:26

Nobody started any fake spoilers yet??? I wanted to know wat kind of wild imagination ppl have....specially after "Clare got absored into the destroyer" cliffhanger

Oh, oh, let me try my hand at those fake spoilers!

The Destroyer steadily shrinks, with Claire eventually gaining control of the body by mentally gaining control of the Destroyer's thought process. Slowly it shrinks into something the size of a person, and then begins taking shape. After a short while, a female silhouette emerges, then transforms into a form of Claire utterly without either silver eyes or a belly scar. Helen, Deneve, Dietrich, Yuma, and Cynthia stare in shock, with Cynthia filling them in on what is going on.

Priscilla observes this, then is shocked to see Claire's face, "So you're aren't dead after all?!?"

Claire, totally in the nude, grabs the sword Deneve lost to the Destroyer and then sprouts goddess-like "angel's wings".

Then the shit hits the fan so to speak...

Of course then the chapter ends, "To be continued in October..." (as the current issue is a month ahead, right?)

Admittedly my favorite way of ending this chapter would've been for both Galatea and Miria to show up at the very end, both wearing form-fitting, hot black leather outfits. Who's with me on that happening??? ;) :) :)

zebra

2010-07-29, 03:42

The destroyer eats Priscilla and than burps contently.
Credits roll - end D:

I have yet again nothing new/interesting to contribute lol

clarakiss~

2010-07-29, 22:26

Ryus

2010-07-29, 23:26

i don't know how the next chapter is going to play out. at one point clare gets absorb by the destroyer and is able to get out.. then, possibly ten minutes later.. she gets absorbed by it again. what the heck? :uhoh: lol

i just hope prissy quickly destorys the destroyer, just to get this arc over with. :o i want to see wat the org and miria are up to.

Liar... you just wanna see Raki again :heh:

--------

BTW Just read on Baidu that Septembers issue of Jump Square has just been printed (no spoilers yet). So spoilers might be just around the corner, even maybe this weekend. Sadly I'll be out of town in a few hours (but just for a few days), so I won't be able to look for them. So it's up to you guys. ;)

clarakiss~

2010-07-30, 05:16

Liar... you just wanna see Raki again :heh:

oh my.. i have no idea wat ur talking about. :p lol

btw if raki gots an awakened flesh in him, does that mean his hair color and eyes will not change as well?

Shiek927

2010-07-30, 09:15

revan5

2010-07-30, 09:36

Wow, here I was worried that the chapter has already been out all this time, and their aren't even spoilers yet 0_0 :heh:.

Malak, let me make an example about the distinction I mentioned; Luciella: she inevitably adapted to the great power she had at her disposal, and wanted it to use it to conquer the lands(Psychology), but it didn't change her love for her sister(Personality).

How people behave/act, and how people truly are: that's the distinction I try to bring up, putting it simply as possible.

Oh man Shiek, not again with using "their" instead of "there". You've been doing that so consistently it even fouled up my own typing inclinations recently. :)

If you're wondering why the chapter isn't out, look no farther than the legal offices of Jump Square in Japan. Those are the guys more responsible for delays than anyone else. Thankfully for us, and not so thankfully for anyone's intellectual property rights, China has a long tradition of not following the world system.

MalakTawus

2010-07-30, 13:57

Wow, here I was worried that the chapter has already been out all this time, and their aren't even spoilers yet 0_0 :heh:.

Malak, let me make an example about the distinction I mentioned; Luciella: she inevitably adapted to the great power she had at her disposal, and wanted it to use it to conquer the lands(Psychology), but it didn't change her love for her sister(Personality).

How people behave/act, and how people truly are: that's the distinction I try to bring up, putting it simply as possible.

Yes,yes,now i understand what you mean,it's just that at the beginning i didn't know exactly what you meant with psychology (since in truth it doesn't have the meaning that you use here....),but even if i have a different theory (that i mentioned in my previous post) i like your theory too and imo it makes a lot of sense.

Gooral

2010-07-31, 12:53

If anyone wants MiB's 105th chapter scanlation with gernot's translation PM me.

Shiek927

2010-07-31, 14:23

If anyone wants MiB's 105th chapter scanlation with gernot's translation PM me.

Heh, I'm curious Gooral if you still think Priscilla will die in 6 chapters :p:)

clarakiss~

2010-08-01, 17:49

Heh, I'm curious Gooral if you still think Priscilla will die in 6 chapters :p:)

i seriously hope not. i want to see how prissy will fare against the dragonkin if they do arrive. :)

Gooral

2010-08-02, 12:13

Chapter as good as the previous one, not bad but I would expect more of Yagi. Probably everything I'll write has been discussed before but I'll write it anyway :P.

1) How the heck could Clare talk in a state like that? She should have been dead by now. IMO Yagi over-used god-mode for her with this chapter. And when did she manage to tell Deneve her final words? Priscilla was coming their way real quick and a while earlier Clare said sth else.

2) Again we have annoying Priscilla that acts as if she was some kind of goddess. I wonder though why she didn’t kill Deneve or Helen (or both of them) after she found out about Clare. According to her life code everything that stands in her way should be annihilated and they stayed in her way. Unless she couldn’t do it after Clare-Raciella started attacking her (which would suggest she's not that godly). She also needed only one of them so she could have killed the other. I don’t believe she did it from the kindness of her heart. What’s more she should have suspected that Clare couldn’t go far nor cloak her youki so she had to be dead or be very close to it, she didn't need Deneve to tell her what happened to Clare if she used her brain.

3) Priscilla’s reaction and her question “What did I come her for?” was one of the stupidest things in the chapter. As if meeting with Clare again or killing her would change anything. Besides, she wasted like 20 minutes not 20 years and she sounded like she was searching for her a long time. Seriously, somebody kill her please.

4) Exposing naked Priscilla from every angle… Although I like to look at this and that from time to time Priscilla has become boring. I would prefer someone other than AB with skin that looks like sh*t with veins. Dee, Galatea, Clare or Helen would be so much better.

5) Dee has already paid her debt. In fact Deneve and Helen owe her. Dee said that without risking her life she can't repay them but the thing is H&D never risked their lives for her. The awakened being they helped her to defeat wasn't even a challenge for one of them, let alone two. And Dee not only did deliver their message (and risked her life, she couldn't be sure that she wouldn't be killed by Miria or someone else) but earlier she saved Helen and Deneve by risking her life and rescuing them from ZACS. Now she saved their friends and it's still not enough to her...

6) Cynthia’s line “For some reason it feels like we should see that with our own eyes” was also a winner. It wasn’t for “some reason” but because Yagi told you ;P. I would call it not the best script line that Yagi came up with.

7) Yuma that could regenerate better than Cynthia was also a shocker to me. A while back with “the rest of her strength” she managed to help Cynthia and now she was able to do the same for Deneve (sure, her injury was much less serious but…). If she keeps it up next time she will regenerate Clare from scratch.

8) As always Deneve could deduce a bit too much from the information she got (at least it seemed that way to me). Seriously, how come could she notice that Clare was talking as if she was a part of this pasta? How can you deduce sth like that ? Unless Clare said it outright. I have some possibilities in mind but still it looks a bit far-fetched to me. What’s even funnier a while later she said that she knows nothing even though it was clear that she knew the most out of all people. Yagi should have read what he wrote a page back.

Heh, I'm curious Gooral if you still think Priscilla will die in 6 chapters :p:)
I don't think that, I'm hoping it :). And now it's 5 chapters. That's a number from a hat, we'll see how close (or should I say far) I was. It's possible that Priscilla won't die or she'll outlive Clare but she annoys me very much and I would like to see her death soon. The sooner she's out of the picture the happier I'll be, this is currently the most boring character in Claymore IMO.

P.S.
I can always continue to write "1 chapter till Priscilla's downfall left" after 4 months from now pass ;P.

przemoc

2010-08-03, 14:37

Hi, I'm new here, so I'll add my 0,02 PLN. ;)

1) How the heck could Clare talk in a state like that? She should have been dead by now. IMO Yagi over-used god-mode for her with this chapter. And when did she manage to tell Deneve her final words? Priscilla was coming their way real quick and a while earlier Clare said sth else.

It's not that you cannot talk by not having lower part of your body. It is troublesome though, definitely. Remember, Clare is not an ordinary human and even not an ordinary claymore.

And she has not said sth else. Clare said to Helen and Deneve that she's sorry and the mentioned part about remaining responsibility was just elided at that page ("I..." indicates that there was than it has been shown). Nothing new from Yagi. I can agree that this monologue of almost dead one doesn't fit into presented rapid course of events.

2) Again we have annoying Priscilla that acts as if she was some kind of goddess. I wonder though why she didn’t kill Deneve or Helen (or both of them) after she found out about Clare. According to her life code everything that stands in her way should be annihilated and they stayed in her way. Unless she couldn’t do it after Clare-Raciella started attacking her (which would suggest she's not that godly). She also needed only one of them so she could have killed the other. I don’t believe she did it from the kindness of her heart. What’s more she should have suspected that Clare couldn’t go far nor cloak her youki so she had to be dead or be very close to it, she didn't need Deneve to tell her what happened to Clare if she used her brain.

3) Priscilla’s reaction and her question “What did I come her for?” was one of the stupidest things in the chapter. As if meeting with Clare again or killing her would change anything. Besides, she wasted like 20 minutes not 20 years and she sounded like she was searching for her a long time. Seriously, somebody kill her please.

After all goddess is only one and it was Teresa. ;) (I'd like to believe that Teresa was capable of taking down Priscilla in its AB form, but I bet that releasing 10% of yoma wouldn't be enough even for her to kill that annoying germ. It's really sad that Priscilla boggled Teresa, that was already too soft thanks to Clare, but she should be cautious to the very end, so it's still Teresa's fault.)

Priscilla is always shown unbalanced. This the problem of overpowered characters (and mangakas using them) . She has flown to the Riful instantaneously, but has problems with catching a few claymores? And even if she's next to them she's talking calmly, blah blah blah. Priscilla, according to what we've seen, could kill all those pitiful claymores countless times w/o sweating at all and going even with 10% of her power. Oh, I almost forget, she is shrunken now (thanks to Raki), so it's beyond our imagination what she would be w/o 7-year post. OTOH she may die from starvation, no?

4) Exposing naked Priscilla from every angle… Although I like to look at this and that from time to time Priscilla has become boring. I would prefer someone other than AB with skin that looks like sh*t with veins. Dee, Galatea, Clare or Helen would be so much better.

Agree.

5) Dee has already paid her debt. In fact Deneve and Helen owe her. Dee said that without risking her life she can't repay them but the thing is H&D never risked their lives for her. The awakened being they helped her to defeat wasn't even a challenge for one of them, let alone two. And Dee not only did deliver their message (and risked her life, she couldn't be sure that she wouldn't be killed by Miria or someone else) but earlier she saved Helen and Deneve by risking her life and rescuing them from ZACS. Now she saved their friends and it's still not enough to her...

Many people think that returned favor should be a bigger one - being a similar, but doubled, in terms of count or its greatness. It's not that unnatural, especially if we're talking about decent soldier.

6) Cynthia’s line “For some reason it feels like we should see that with our own eyes” was also a winner. It wasn’t for “some reason” but because Yagi told you ;P. I would call it not the best script line that Yagi came up with.

7) Yuma that could regenerate better than Cynthia was also a shocker to me. A while back with “the rest of her strength” she managed to help Cynthia and now she was able to do the same for Deneve (sure, her injury was much less serious but…). If she keeps it up next time she will regenerate Clare from scratch.

Don't be so mean to her. She's already exhausted. But IMHO Yuma should be more exhausted here, because Cynthia take a nap and she wasn't the curing one claymore lately.
Yuma is becoming somehow a second Clare, from 40th nothing to a warrior gaining skills in eyeblink. But Deneve case was a bit different. We've already seen a few times youki flow interference, so this shouldn't be that hard.

8) As always Deneve could deduce a bit too much from the information she got (at least it seemed that way to me). Seriously, how come could she notice that Clare was talking as if she was a part of this pasta? How can you deduce sth like that ? Unless Clare said it outright. I have some possibilities in mind but still it looks a bit far-fetched to me. What’s even funnier a while later she said that she knows nothing even though it was clear that she knew the most out of all people. Yagi should have read what he wrote a page back.

They spend a few years together. They understand each other w/o additional words to some extent. Sure, she can misjudge the reasons and goals, but it shouldn't be the case here, at least she's correct with the vendetta part. ;)

But what with promise made to Raki? Clare won't vanish that easily, I am sure of it.