Claymore Chapter 109 [Archive]

Solace

2010-10-31, 21:02

Welcome to the monthly discussion thread for Claymore, Chapter 109.

The thread was created before the chapter was published. Usually false spoilers start to appear early so (naturally) people always need a place to discuss them.

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Ryus

2010-10-31, 21:03

Transferring spoilers to this thread.

There are spoiler pics (6 pages) available and the spoiler is confirmed. Thank spacecat. http://thumbnails29.imagebam.com/10468/3d0238104673296.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/3d0238104673296)

(to see the other 5 spoiler pic click the image to load the page then scroll through the images by pressing "next image")

Jean Claymore

2010-10-31, 21:05

And now........ Are we expecting the Raki lovers coming up this time?:heh:

Ryus

2010-10-31, 21:07

And now........ Are we expecting the Raki lovers coming up this time?:heh:

Expect Clarakiss~ expressing her love of how Claymore has finally become awesome again by taking another step towards making Raki the main character. :heh:

Vinak

2010-10-31, 21:10

Clare: hey Raki, is that a spike in your shoulder, or are you just happy to see me?

Ryus

2010-10-31, 21:17

Clare: hey Raki, is that a spike in your shoulder, or are you just happy to see me?

Speaking of the spikes...

In ch 96 one of the spikes is sticking through his arm and out the other side (seen to our right of his abs)

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/LordRyus/CLAYMORE096_08color.jpg

But in the spoiler pic neither rod is... and it's migrated up his arm to his shoulder and one of the rods is now on the back side of his arm :heh::eyespin::heh:

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/LordRyus/b98fb4cbc2a6104a93457e79.jpg

Jean Claymore

2010-10-31, 21:21

Expect Clarakiss~ expressing her love of how Claymore has finally become awesome again by taking another step towards making Raki the main character. :heh:

Well, I don't know, but it is really strange to see there are much more Raki lovers than anti-s:heh:. Frankly, I'm not in favor nor against, but always thought Raki was much inferior than the other claymores because of his lack for karisma perhaps:heh:

MalakTawus

2010-10-31, 21:27

....am i the only one that thinks that those polls would be more meaningful if the average was indicated clearly?

An4rchy99

2010-10-31, 21:42

Hmmm, well my fears of this chap being basically a dialogue chapter has come true. I still haven't had a good look at the images. Hope the new chap would be out in next day or so... before I start ranting about speculation :p

Negativedark

2010-10-31, 21:46

You know Claire bieng in the blob there reminds me of when Sho was in the cacoon in Guyver.
Well it sounds sorta like the ghosts are still hoping for Miria to be alive. Maybe Yagi will give us a nice surprise. He times it right, he could do it for Christmas.
You know if the God of Rabona does exist, he'd better start doing some miracles before all his followers are eaten.

rafael1932

2010-10-31, 21:47

is just me or yagi "did it again", by sthorting the epic combat with pris vs clare like he did before with isley?
i am just trying to image all the faces that wanted 1 or 2 chapters of full fight

liquidmetal

2010-10-31, 21:57

Seems like it. "Static" images are easier to draw i guess :(

Vinak

2010-10-31, 22:32

so why is Dietrich crying?

Bikerider

2010-10-31, 22:35

Negativedark

2010-10-31, 22:55

so why is Dietrich crying?

She was fairly loyal to the Org. Finding out they are evil, and wanted to kill everyone in Rabona just for haboring the ghosts, probably shook her entire worldview.

rafael1932

2010-10-31, 23:15

it came to sense that the batlle of clare is over in awakened form cause i think that yagi does not like repeat himself/ to make the combats over and over cause they will look the same. it seems to me that clare continued to do the same move like before, until pris started to became tired cause of the special ability of sucking vital energy of the destroyer. so i must agree with a fight a la rafaela vs clare like before. clare is the main char so she will live( actually, only in the end is that change hapening like in every manga/story), like before
happy to see raki like that, it kinda reminds me that the org may ship in to the main land(to remove and implant the rods in others awakened), contining the story and not ending with the already fleeble/about to cramble org

rafael1932

2010-10-31, 23:30

Dietrich could go back to the org alone to see miria status insted of puting the ghosts in danger cause, naturally, they dont know yet the danger that lukers from them- avoiding the number 10

Ryus

2010-10-31, 23:52

so why is Dietrich crying?

The final page was translated by weils on the other thread... in it Dietrich asks the ghosts for confirmation that the organization launched the attack on Rabonna. She was likely feeling as betrayed as Tabitha along with a thousand other mixed emotions like realizing she was helping there cause all this time and tracking down warriors like Galatea who where actually in the right. Finding out something like in a fashion one can't deny it must be devastating, enough to make anyone as honorable as Dietrich cry.

An4rchy99

2010-10-31, 23:54

It seems from this that the battle between Clare and Priss was OVER !!! That's why the ghosts returned to Rabona..

I feel.. so CHEATED !!!

Well... maybe there will be a flash back showing the battle, or the battle is yet to explode out of the blob.... We shall have to wait and see.

I think all of us agree to this. This was a shame... the most anticipated battle, and Yagi still figuring out how to bring it up. But the wait is not only the worst part, but like you said... I also can't figure out a reason, why they returned to Rabona. And since they did this give at least 70% the battle is over. And to make it even more worse... the next arc / mission being "rescure Miria" pretty much stomps on any notion the important battle is on going :(

But on the bright side of things, we finally get some answers on Diet, I am quite happy with that. Plus, prolly we get to see some good ol' claymore v claymore battles again (something which I can never get enough of :p). And also there seems to be something going on with Raki... either he's changing (sound effects + hair color change???) or the rods are dying/dead...

But overall, Yagi hits us with a mixture of details and tease for this chapter.

EDIT: btw, also noticed that Gala scars are now really gone... so she prolly attempted to heal... aww kawainess down by 0.5 points :heh:

Cyclone

2010-11-01, 01:09

Wow - those are some spoiler pages!
Interesting note: Helen standing beside that blob, says to Galatea-sama: "This is Clare"
ay-ya-yay...
This chapter promises to be quite epic (minus the Raki bits, obviously :p [still it's nice to what happened to him though])! I'm amazed Yagi-sensei managed to fit all that in to 30 (or so) pages!

Ryus

2010-11-01, 01:33

Wow - those are some spoiler pages!
Interesting note: Helen standing beside that blob, says to Galatea-sama: "This is Clare"

:twitch:... :heh::heh::heh: Are you being Serious!!! :heh::heh::heh:

If so that's a classic Helen dialog. :p

Cyclone

2010-11-01, 02:34

totally serious

haegar

2010-11-01, 03:25

lol. morning cyclone. glad to see you'r back for the chap :D
so still no chap since yesterday? damn. I was at least hoping forsome more pics with my coffee... rargh.... biki biki...

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 07:03

OFFTOPIC: considering how many females there are in Claymore,it's quite unique the fact that Yagi hasn't drawn anyone with huge breasts,don't you think?

Tom Bombadil

2010-11-01, 07:15

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 07:16

What exactly does she mean by that? is she implying that Claire is dead and that's all that's left?

It's weird, because if Claire really is somehow alive and still inside that thing...what can't they just hack it to pieces and get it out, considering it's so small?

Something fishy is going on here....who'd have thought that Raciella and her monstrous size would be reduced to something practically human-sized. I can't believe that all 3 (Claire, Raciella, Priscilla) have all ended up dead; otherwise, I don't even know what to think.

Dietrich is just plain weird....the likelihood that she is rebelling now seems pretty strong, but for what reason? She was content with the creation of the Eaters but now she wants out? After everything that's happened that she has put up with...

She has got to be the weirdest character in all the story, I just don't get whether I'm supposed to like her, sympathize with her, or what.

Well, like I said here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3283974&postcount=414), It's probably better off for her if she joins the Ghosts; I don't know know how to describe Dietrich, except that she seems like a child who can't make up her mind; her will seems even weaker then Yuma. Jean was never this extreme or unsure when it came to her beliefs or her honor.

Well, the fans all seem to want her to join the Ghosts and that seems like what's going to happen; if that makes her a less confusing character, then it's fine with me :heh:.

The main thing I want to figure out in this chapter, is whether or not at the end, they are attempting to save Miria or save Claire; the end makes it imply they are going after Miria, but out of sheer hope? or do they have proof she is still alive?

And if they are going East, does that mean they have given up on Claire entirely? Seems that way, which doesn't speak well for her survival....though it could simply be like what Irvine said, and they are all trapped inside the giant blob; I can't tell if those are Priscilla's wings sticking out of the top or not, but I think so.

OFFTOPIC: considering how many females there are in Claymore,it's quite unique the fact that Yagi hasn't drawn anyone with huge breasts,don't you think?

......Roflmao :heh:

Good grief.....:heh:

You know he's always gone for realism Malak; some girls are bigger then others *points at Renee.

Joe_fh

2010-11-01, 07:36

Hey Cyclone, if you're around later could you sum up what Dee was saying while she was crying?

@Shiek: But Dee didn't actually approve of the eaters or anything of the sort. We were over that in the previous chapter thread so I won't pick it up again...especially since the new chapter is coming out really soon so we'll be focused on that.

And if that's Clare....maybe that Destroyer vortex really closed down on Prissy and it ended this way :heh: That sounds incredibly weird...how on earth did it all end like this :twitch:

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 07:41

@Shiek: But Dee didn't actually approve of the eaters or anything of the sort. We were over that in the previous chapter thread so I won't pick it up again...especially since the new chapter is coming out really soon so we'll be focused on that.

Joe, I was there too ya know :heh:

Right right, she approved of the Eaters, knows intimate details of them....but she still stayed with the Organization gungho style? :rolleyes:

Ugh, only 2 posts and I'm already tired of talking about her; I'll leave it at there :heh:

And if that's Clare....maybe that Destroyer vortex really closed down on Prissy and it ended this way That sounds incredibly weird...how on earth did it all end like this

It seems that way....those wings do look like Priscilla....and it doesn't look like Claire managed to get out, if Helen's words are to be believed.

Tom Bombadil

2010-11-01, 07:46

Hey Cyclone, if you're around later could you sum up what Dee was saying while she was crying?

She is asking the ghosts to confirm that what happened earlier is indeed the work of the organization.

Joe_fh

2010-11-01, 07:48

I know, I know :heh:

But you left it too open...It's tempting to say something about that again. :p
Anyway let's move on - well have more on her in this chapter so the discussion will surely move in that direction at some point.

Prissy's wing are more sharp and have a lot more "veins" spread throughout them thus I doubt that's hers. Honestly it looks more like an angel wing to me even though there are actually no angles in Claymore. It just looks kind of...feathery :heh:

@Tom: Thanks a lot. :)

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 07:55

Prissy's wing are more sharp and have a lot more "veins" spread throughout them thus I doubt that's hers. Honestly it looks more like an angel wing to me even though there are actually no angles in Claymore. It just looks kind of...feathery

You're right....the size looks about right, but the wings themselves don't, which is why I'm a bit unsure.

Actually, I think you're 100% right; Priscilla's wings are much more "ruined" and warped-looking; these wings "flow" much better and don't looks so crazy and sharp.

....Is it just me, or has Tabitha grew in "size" this chapter? *looks close at the picture where she punches Deneve :D.

Could be just the angle but I don't know...:heh:. Deneve doesn't look so bad either; I guess it's just rare to see closeups like this of these two :D :heh: :p.

Deneve has one muscular looking back though; won't be long before she catches up with Undine :heh:

An4rchy99

2010-11-01, 08:10

The strange thing about Diet is, we have assumed that Diet has witnessed such an attack before... one thing I don't get is, if she was came from such a village, why was she so loyal?

- - -

I think the pieces sticking out is part of the remnants of the actual shell pieces. As I had a closer look, it seems pretty much the same as the crown like head pieces on Raciella.

Btw... since Helen can touch the actual mass, means something has changed now? it is possible that they actually carried a smaller fragment and it has gotten bigger?

Tom Bombadil

2010-11-01, 08:16

@Joe_fh, there is really nothing much on that page beside Deneve said something like "follow me". Of course, without other information, it is hard to make any analysis.

Helen standing next to the flesh ball actually give me the idea of her wrapping her arms around it and carrying it. That's kind of hilarious to imagine how it works.

Actually, the left side of the "wing" looks more like the tip of one of the arms of Clare when she half awoke, sharp and spear like. It is asymmetrical, to say at least, just like the case when she half awoke.

Royal Blue Nazi

2010-11-01, 08:34

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 08:34

You know he's always gone for realism Malak; some girls are bigger then others *points at Renee.
Lol,i know.But tbh it's not that female with really big breasts are mithological creatures.
I have at least two friends that are REALLY "well-endowed" (and yes,they are natural......).

It's weird, because if Claire really is somehow alive and still inside that thing...what can't they just hack it to pieces and get it out, considering it's so small?
I guess that Claire is inside in the sense that her soul is inside.....but her body is completely fused,so even if they hack it to pieces it would still be impossible for them to take Claire out of that.Imo the only possibility is someone doing a mental connection or Claire herself awakening from that thing thanx to her own willpower.
....btw there is also the posibility that trying to connect with that thing is UBER dangerous 'cause it could break the "equilibrium" that is mantaining that thing stable....how knows what could happen if it activate again,it could be catastrophic......and there is also the possibility that the conciousness of the warrior that tries to form a connection will be reduced to dust by the enormous power hidden inside that thing.

Imo the mental battle between Claire and Prissy is going on,and sooner or later both Claire and Prissy will come out of it...or maybe Claire will be able to kill Prissy in the mental world and after awakening she'll be the one taking control........tbh i don't like this idea too much 'cause this would make Claire invincible....i mean,i don't mind her getting this power,but only at the very end,now is too soon (unless Yagi plans on letting Claire "sleep" until the end........if he does something like that i'll hate Yagi for real)

one thing I don't get is, if she was came from such a village, why was she so loyal?
Maybe her city was attacked like Rabona but she didn't thought that the org was behind it.This way she probably considered the org the only salvation for humans against those tragedies caused by yomas,that's why she was so loyal........but now that she understands that the org is the real responsible........

Joe_fh

2010-11-01, 09:30

Maybe her city was attacked like Rabona but she didn't thought that the org was behind it.This way she probably considered the org the only salvation for humans against those tragedies caused by yomas,that's why she was so loyal........but now that she understands that the org is the real responsible........

I completely agree here.

As for pulling Clare out - she's probably not the only one there. If they make a wrong move they might bring Prissy out first as well and considering how powerful she is they'll be pretty much dead on the spot.
I'm guessing both Prissy and Clare now are in a state similar to when Clare met Rafaela.
Considering that one could bring their own "reality" (in a sense: Clare brought Jean along because Jean's death had quite the impact on Clare) we might see some weird situation where they (Clare and Prissy) both go back to Teresa's death and see a different side they couldn't see at the time. Doubtful however, I believe we'll see something weird if they are both in there.

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 09:49

Whoa.....a scenario with Claire Teresa and Prissy together seems really possible now.
And differently to what happened with Jean (that Jean was only Claire's memory), maybe we could actually see the REAL Teresa since there is a possibility that Teresa's soul is REALLY inside Claire. Btw, i'm not saying that Teresa will come back to life,i'm only talking in a scenario in the "soul-world".
Who knows,maybe Teresa herself could convince Claire to give up her revenge (she and maybe Raki are the only ones that could convince her).....i just hope that we'll see some action before "reason" comes to play,a fight between Claire and Prissy is too good to avoid it!

....it would also be interesting to see what could happen if Prissy sees Teresa.....that's really a situation with incredible potential,i'm super curious about it,but probably we'll have to wait for months before Yagi decides to reveal what's really happening.

An4rchy99

2010-11-01, 09:56

Are we sure that there are people in there? I mean sensing 2 different yoki's and actually assuming there to be two souls/minds is a big difference (as destroyer also emits yoki, but doesn't have a soul). I thought that the mass was just emitting a remnant of the yoki signatures... And if there are people in there, it doesn't make sense to leave the mass outside there not knowing what it might do/cause next... For all we know it might be just lying outside Rabona... but we don't know that too...

Hmm, I would not jump to conclusion on this matter yet. There are too many unknowns to start with... It probably could just be a remnant piece that mutated over time...

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 10:05

Well,we know for a fact that at least Claire is in there.Gala sensed someone else.That someone else could be:
Raciella,Teresa or Priscilla.
My bet is on Priscilla,since imo that could cause extremely interesting situations.
....but in the end it's like you say.We know too little atm to be sure of what's really going on.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 10:07

The strange thing about Diet is, we have assumed that Diet has witnessed such an attack before... one thing I don't get is, if she was came from such a village, why was she so loyal?

Try not to think too much of it; that's my viewpoint on Dietrich :heh:. She's like stuck in-between two extremes; her love for the Organization, and her "honor"; she doesn't know what she wants. If she truly does not like what they are doing, why did she go so far in her approving of them, to make it seem like she truly sided with them no matter what? Things with her were so much easier when she was introduced and she was simply a "Evil Jean" :heh:.

If she truly does side with the Ghosts, it will hopefully be an alligence she is happy with and not one she is just pretending to like and approve of for whatever reason :eyespin:

I agree with you; they are definitely having, as Irvine called it, a virtual reality battle; it paves the way for Teresa making a re-appearance.

An4rchy99

2010-11-01, 10:12

@MalakTawus: My point in saying that was not to kill the talk, btw. Its just that, now we are all assuming the fight is over :(... which is just too soon for me to assume. But I guess mental battle still counts.

Things with her were so much easier when she was introduced and she was simply a "Evil Jean"

Well, thats a nice way to put her. If only there was one like Jean...

Joe_fh

2010-11-01, 10:30

Well as always we'll just have to wait and see. Though again as always we''ll have a pile of questions at the end of the chapter no one can really answer :heh:

I'm not actually sure if we'll get to see a Clare vs Prissy head on full power battle. We might see a little skirmish but I doubt it will anything more. At leas going by what we've seen so far Yagi never showed us a complete battle at AO (except the extra chapter and Prissy killing the twins but that was to show the difference in power thus not actually being a battle) let alone something of this level.

Considering how powerful both Prissy and Clare as the Destroyer should have it's hard to imagine how a battle could go. Also taking into account their regeneration capabilities and yoki reserves a normal battle would drag on for a very long time. I think something else too place and seeing how the destroyer could suck the life out of living things and also merge with different things (even the rods are indication of how easily it merges with life forms) the answer probably lies in this

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 10:35

My point in saying that was not to kill the talk, btw. Its just that, now we are all assuming the fight is over ... which is just too soon for me to assume. But I guess mental battle still counts.I know that's not what you meant,afterall even if we don't know a lot atm,it's always fun to come up with possible speculation,no?I know you also agree with this.
Btw now i have to go to train (volleyball),i hope that when i'll go back the chap will be out (i know,wishful thinking,lol)

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 10:40

Well, thats a nice way to put her. If only there was one like Jean...

That's how she was; simply put, she loved the Organization wheras others like Jean, Cynthia Priscilla, loved humanity. Then Dietrich suddenly had this strange "honor" that conflicted with that on so many ways that, now, it's kind of close to impossible to find out who and what she is really loyal too; I don't even know if she knows that herself.

Royal Blue Nazi

2010-11-01, 10:43

That's how she was; simply put, she loved the Organization wheras others like Jean, Cynthia Priscilla, loved humanity. Then Dietrich suddenly had this strange "honor" that conflicted with that on so many ways that, now, it's kind of close to impossible to find out who and what she is really loyal too; I don't even know if she knows that herself.

Yes, I agree with that, Shiek. Dietrich is (for me) confused on what party should she going with.

Joe_fh

2010-11-01, 10:50

Well actually Dee didn't say she loved the organization she said she won't lie to them if they ask her...kind of different :p

Anyway I don't see a contradiction in being loyal to the MiBs and loving humanity. Provided you have all the information we do there is one but otherwise you'e being loyal to an organization that even though very brutal is the only thing that prevents humanity from being wiped out. Even if you don't like it, if it's the only way to help and save people, you'll do it if you really want to help. (sacrifice a few for the safety of many - acceptable losses if it's the only choice not to let the "many" die)

Also, even if you have all that information, if you're not in a position to do anything about anything...well you just stay there and do the best you can - in this case kill yoma and save people. Galatea was the only one with enough information and power to leave on her own so in general it's not that easy. Even after Miria gathered all that information before she was sent to the North to her death, she still went with the MiBs orders because it was her only choice.

In short I don't see a problem with Dee's loyalty and love for humanity. I talked about her character last time so I'll stop here :heh:
As for her being confused - she though she was on the side of the good guys and now she finds out it's the complete opposite - it's natural she'd be somewhat confused but when she hears all the facts I doubt she'll remain that way.

@Shiek: I came up with a simple speed explanation as well so it's not that weird :p:D

@Malak: Have fun at practice I guess :p

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 10:50

Yes, I agree with that, Shiek. Dietrich is (for me) confused on what party should she going with.

Seriously, she has got to the weirdest character Yagi has ever made; no other person in this story is more hard for me to understand and get a grasp on. Weird things also seem to happen around her, like with holding Riful's dress and not getting eaten :heh:, though Gooral came up with a sensible explanation not to long ago.

I just hope Yagi appeases the fans and makes her join the Ghosts, if only so all this finally comes to an end :heh:

Joe, reading your post, I don't know; maybe all my confusion just stems from the fact that I don't like her all that much, if at all. She's just an enigma to me; all the characters have been easy to figure out when it comes to their loyalties, but Dietrich doesn't seem to have made up her mind about it. All her actions and words, to a certain point, like being aware of the AE's and not caring about their creation, make a very Pro-Org stance, but at the same time, especially with this recent "honor" stuff, it's like she's having a change of heart; how and why after everything she has been through and been apparently okay with, I don't know.

Like, in her head, she wants to side with the Organization full-time, but deep-down, she's the exact opposite; it's this stark difference that makes her so bizarre to me and why I think she's honestly just more trouble then she's worth.

In a way, I guess it doesn't matter since it's all apparently coming to an end with her joining the Ghosts full-time; one can only hope that she's happy with the decision and isn't gonna change sides again in the middle.

Nixl

2010-11-01, 10:58

Vinak

2010-11-01, 11:04

Maybe her city was attacked like Rabona but she didn't thought that the org was behind it.This way she probably considered the org the only salvation for humans against those tragedies caused by yomas,that's why she was so loyal........but now that she understands that the org is the real responsible........
To me, this adds credence to the old theory of Dietrich being that little girl Clare met all those years ago.

Her entire town witnesses an AB kill group go up a mountain, and only one returning just in time to die in the arms of a rogue claymore.

I don't imagine the organization wants the general population to think that claymores can fail, and/or the fact some go rogue.

So naturally they wipe the entire town out with Yoma, and AB's...then gather up all the female children and turn them into warriors. All of which are going to feel obligated to the organization.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 11:10

I have been thinking about the blob for a bit and Yagi may have set something nice up with the last 20 chapters or so. Consider that Claire/Destroyer have zero chance of physically besting Priscilla. The last few chapters have shown that anyone who physically fought Priscilla lost without any hope of success. Claire is no different in this regard even though she is the main protagonist. However, Priscilla, like Claire, has been absorbed and may now be in another being's consciousness or in this case Claire's mind/nightmares. We know Rafaela stated that it was possible for Claire to die in that dream realm, so the same must also be true for Priscilla. Therefore, the fight that was originally a battle of physical power/yoki, which Pris dominated, is now battle of wills. This means Claire actually has a chance to challenge Priscilla and win.

I assume we will have another dream fight, but who knows what will be inside Claire's head. Teresa? Ophelia? Nightmares? Priscilla may have an agonizing death after all.

Here's the thing though....did Claire truly beat Rafaela on pure-will alone? I don't think so; it's not like Rafaela went easy on her...I always thought Claire won because she truly was better then her :/. She went "easy" on her at first, at the degree because she wanted Claire to understand, not only the danger, but the seriousness of her and the situation.

But you're right; we could get an indepth look at Claire's haunted mind: Teresa will definitely make a comeback. What about Priscilla? we could easily get an indepth look at her; she could end up remembering what she has lost, Claire could learn more about her then she ever knew including her connection with Raki, her humanity could re-awaken, Jean and the others could reappear...

Their are ALOT of possibilties; I'm definitely looking forward to this :D

A curious thing though is how Priscilla managed to get captured at all; we saw her blast a similar black cyclone to smithereens the last time we saw her; how could she have been overwhelmed?

Joe_fh

2010-11-01, 11:19

@Shiek: well I don't know - she seem easy to figure out if you ask me. Probably because I see her actions as going against the organization from the start even if she's not actually against them since they act as humanity's protectors as far as she know.

When she told Deneve and Helen about the AFs and how they were made, the fact that they probably made even more and things like that I saw it more as sharing information on something that you don't approve of to people who unlike you seem to be in a position where they can actually do something about it.

I guess being a bit confused is part of her character - she's very young and with all the things happing around her it's easy to see why she'd have doubts. I'm pretty sure she'll go with the ghosts and won't regret it at all especially if someone enlightens her about the island being a giant laboratory :heh:

And I don't remember who came up with that theory about Dee being that little girl but I agree with Vinak - it's starting to look more and more plausible by the chapter.

As for how Prissy might have been absorbed - the same way Clare was - it doesn't matter how powerful she actually is. Once her mind is pulled in, her body could easily be destroyed, absorbed or something like that. Unlike the rods which take control over their "host"s body, the Destroyer seem to take control over the target's mind first and after that the body is no longer an issue. Something like that might work on Prissy.

In fact after a little skirmish in which Clare is clearly losing to Prissy's overwhelming power as a last resort Clare might have tried to pull her conciousness in as a way to destroy Prissy once and for all and this is the result of that.
Interesting stuff :heh:

Nixl

2010-11-01, 11:20

Here's the thing though....did Claire truly beat Rafaela on pure-will alone? I don't think so; it's not like Rafaela went easy on her...I always thought Claire won because she truly was better then her :/. She went "easy" on her at first, at the degree because she wanted Claire to understand, not only the danger, but the seriousness of her and the situation.

But you're right; we could get an indepth look at Claire's haunted mind: Teresa will definitely make a comeback. What about Priscilla? we could easily get an indepth look at her; she could end up remembering what she has lost, Claire could learn more about her then she ever knew including her connection with Raki, her humanity could re-awaken, Jean and the others could reappear...

Their are ALOT of possibilties; I'm definitely looking forward to this :D

A curious thing though is how Priscilla managed to get captured at all; we saw her blast a similar black cyclone to smithereens the last time we saw her; how could she have been overwhelmed?

Pardon, I forgot a point. Claire had zero chance against Awakned Priscilla, but the Priscilla in the dream could easily be in her Claymore/Human form, which is something Claire could possibly fight. Awakened Priscilla just regenerates and tentacle spams. Then again if Priscilla sees Teresa again she could possibly just lose it right there. Finally we will know just how emo Claire really is.

Gooral

2010-11-01, 11:30

@Shiek, you've confused me with Joe. Joe_fh was the one that came up with with a sensible explanation not to long ago. As for Dee being the girl from Witch's maw arc it was Gangsta Spanksta (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2272594&highlight=scruffy#post2272594) that made that connection.

Ryuken

2010-11-01, 11:41

Gooral

2010-11-01, 11:43

Connection @Gooral?:confused:
Connection between scruffy girl and Dee. It's probably not the best way to put it. Blame my lack of English "skills" (vocabulary etc.).

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 11:51

Pardon, I forgot a point. Claire had zero chance against Awakned Priscilla, but the Priscilla in the dream could easily be in her Claymore/Human form, which is something Claire could possibly fight. Awakened Priscilla just regenerates and tentacle spams. Then again if Priscilla sees Teresa again she could possibly just lose it right there. Finally we will know just how emo Claire really is.

Well, I don't know about that; Claire and Rafaela, when they were in the dream, were both in their current form (in Rafaela's case, how she last was anyway); Claire didn't get her arm back for example, and still had Irene's.

No, I don't think it will go so far as Priscilla regressing because her mind got pulled in. Maybe as a consequence for what happens and what goes on, but not simply because.

Heh, looks like you lost on your prediction Gooral; 109 doesn't look like we'll be seeing anyone's downfall, unless you added one more in hopes of seeing something in 110 :heh: :p.

Gooral

2010-11-01, 12:03

I still have 1 chapter left ;P. (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2947130#post2947130) I've started counting in 101st 100th chapter thread. I still have chances of succeeding in my prediction if we'll see Priscilla's and Clare's fight in the next chapter.

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 12:19

I think we will take a glimpse at priscilla's split personality.
Perhaps the little girl will help clare to beat the evil monster. Who knows?#
@gooral
i've recogniced that already.
In the end clare will drink a bottle of scotch as if it were priscilla's blood and celebrate her death :)

Gooral

2010-11-01, 12:23

Ryus

2010-11-01, 12:29

Personally I would be disappointed if the fight with Priscilla went only in their minds. I want to see Priscilla's guts and (most importantly) limbs flying http://forum.azunime.net/images/smilies/Yellow_Colorz_PDT_45.gif.

:uhoh: I feel sorry for the MiB grunts who would have to clean up all the limbs a guts after those two hack each other up. After all where talking about a limb count in the millions here :heh:

Joe_fh

2010-11-01, 12:37

:uhoh: I feel sorry for the MiB grunts who would have to clean up all the limbs a guts after those two hack each other up. After all where talking about a limb count in the millions here :heh:

So true :heh: Well maybe not millions but thousands for sure. I wonder if we'll really see the whole fight between them - I seriously doubt it. For one I can't even imagine how things would go with those super fast attacks and seemingly unlimited regeneration. 30 pages of the same thing happening over and over again :uhoh:

@Gooral: thanks for the information. And Shiek was talking about that explanation? I thought it was something else since I kind of missed ~ 20 pages from the last discussion thread due to various reason.

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 12:40

Personally I would be disappointed if the fight with Priscilla went only in their minds. I want to see Priscilla's guts and (most importantly) limbs flying http://forum.azunime.net/images/smilies/Yellow_Colorz_PDT_45.gif.

I think in the end clare will simply suck the life out of her :heh:
This is for me the most cruel fate for the thing to help the enemy to improve with her own death.

Gooral

2010-11-01, 12:41

Well, with Destroyer's ability to suck energy Priscilla might have some problems with regenerating. And something tells me that if Clare smacked Priscilla in the form we've seen earlier Priscilla would have to regenerate from scratch. If Isley could destroy 25% of her body with one blow I would imagine that Destroyer+Clare could do much more damage and only a pile of goo that used to be Priscilla would remain.

rafael1932

2010-11-01, 12:43

pris has never been a bad girl. ok, she has to eat men and that but it was only instint. remenber that she wanted to die by teresa however the awakened process was too quick ( or teresa too slow cause she changed a little bit). there is also the possibility that she remebers the last fight with teresa and, afetr had full knowledge of her personality/ true being she will let herself to die in a mental state, dying in body afterwards. lame but pris was never a bad girl so she deserves a good ending. damn i just remember miria...

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 12:51

Gooral

2010-11-01, 12:59

rafael1932

2010-11-01, 12:59

yeah pris was never really a bad girl. Like the dude from braunau would have turned out as a nice guy if they only would have accepted him as an art student at the university of Vienna:heh:

it is funny, i always thought about ophelia while i was writing about pris. in terms of evilness, she was really god at it cause she liked to see others sufering and had no respect for human life. She is diferent from pris because the enemies that she killed were in her way and that means that she was trying to defend herself( while having a little of pride in that- pretty human, i guess)

Joe_fh

2010-11-01, 12:59

Regarding what Prissy wanted at that very moment and how the whole thing happened there are are generally to opinions and honestly no one yet knows for sure which is the correct one.
I think Prissy lost control killed Teresa and awakened while Gooral thinks Prissy was in control thus she killed Teresa willingly. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of arguments for both sides. So it's really a very vast topic to discuss - we even have a thread for it :p

But come on, look at Shieky's avatar - see how cute Prissy is...how can you want to see her get completely destroyed with limbs and guts flying everywhere :heh:

On a more serious note, the Destroyer's ability to suck life didn't seem to have any effect on Prissy in the few time it hit her and she didn't show any indication something drained her yoki/life - I believe she would have noticed it if that was the case.
Also we've never actually seen Prissy serious. I'm not sure if the Destroyer could actually land a nice clean hit on her if it's not at least as powerful as her( which going by her attitude is not the case). The only attacks that ever hit Prissy while she was in full control where once she didn't care about because she could brush them off with her regeneration like they were nothing.
When Isley attacked her she was completely unaware of what was going on and even in her awakened form. So an attack at AO level can't do a thing. I'm pretty sure if someone launched an attack capable of doing serious damage to her she would dodge or block it and so far we haven't seen her do that seriously even once (just blocking some minor attacks compared to the ones that actually hit her but that was probably because she was annoyed or didn't want to be interrupted :heh: )

So A serious Prissy fighting all out is something I can't even begin to imagine. That's why I think we won't get to see the whole fight and it will be toned down to a level we can comprehend inside the destroyer.

Vinak

2010-11-01, 13:01

Priscilla was never a bad girl...but.

Gooral

2010-11-01, 13:05

Also we've never actually seen Prissy serious.
And what makes you think we've seen Destroyer serious? Last time I checked things only started to become interesting when Priscilla was surrounded by Destroyer. And from the looks of it Priscilla got her ass kicked and became a sardine in a can.

Ryus

2010-11-01, 13:10

... must ...stay ...out ...of ... this ...debate.

Agreed that we witnessed neither The Destroyer nor Priscilla 100% serious yet. Though CtD was getting really close to showing us her all...

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 13:13

The most evil person was the bandit chief i think and the guy who wanted to humiliate theresa. Not even the org or Dee came near to this level of evil scumness :heh:

But come on, look at Shieky's avatar - see how cute Prissy is...how can you want to see her get completely destroyed with limbs and guts flying everywhere
Her cuteness was and is only camouflage and deception from what is inside of her.

About the fight:
I think clare took over the destroyers flesh and that changed everything. Before the destroyer attacked wild barely on instinct but now there is an intelligence a brain behind it's attacks and that led to priscilla's captivity. IMO it was clare who allowed helen and deneve to escape creating a secure path for them. When priscilla threatened them the destroyer attacked her immediately with full force but spared helen and deneve.
But in one thing i agree with Joe:
The destroyer will not be enough for defeating priscilla. IMO it will be theresa's power hiding in clare's flesh who will alone make the difference :) just a feeling.

rafael1932

2010-11-01, 13:15

@rafael
I disagree. She never questioned MiB's orders and didn't back off even when she saw that Teresa was protecting little girl (Galatea for example backed off, does it mean she was a saint?). And after Teresa defeated all of them she ignored Irene and organization's rules because she was pissed. She has always been unstable and dangerous person and far from being a "good girl". In my eyes she was bad. In fact she was the most evil person I've seen in Claymore when she killed Teresa, Noel, Sophia and make Clare piss herself.

i just want to point the fact that when she killed everthing( after awakened), she has lost her memory, so she was only depending on her survival instint.
«didn't back off even when she saw that Teresa was protecting little girl » well she was in anger state. we all consider our lifes before others( even little children). the ones who we really cares are our own and the ones we have an attachment. besides she was losing mental control cause she was remember her family death
miria was killed by warriors that think that they are in the good side. are they bad guys? no, like pris that wanted teresa head for going berseker againts humans ( despite the fact that she was not there to she how those humans were.
«unstable and dangerous person and far from being a "good girl"» well she was all that, however is only bad person if she does bad things, which she belived she won't doing that. she thought she was protecting humans by killing her/ being in the goods guy team

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 13:17

I am so not taking part in this :heh:

Maybe another day, but not right before the next chapter is about to come out :heh:

Personally I would be disappointed if the fight with Priscilla went only in their minds. I want to see Priscilla's guts and (most importantly) limbs flying .

Didn't Claire lose her head in the fight with Rafaela? I think the possibility of seeing 'blood' and whatnot is still high.

The Destroyer's ability to absorb fight depends on how much it is able to siphon, how fast vs power Priscilla has (more) and how quickly she is able to regenerate, and of course, if she lets herself get hit.

Joe_fh

2010-11-01, 13:17

That's true however, we've seen Prissy take on the most powerful opponents head on (aside from Teresa and the Destroyer) and took their attacks like they were nothing (since they practically were nothing to her) while the same can't be said for the Destroyer. When it's outer shell was destroyed and it started sucking the life out of things I think it was using the better part of his power.

The reason why is simple - because there was neither a reason nor an indication it wasn't. We know that it's objective was to destroy every living being until there's nothing left (sort of) so I don't see a reason to hold back when your objective is to annihilate everything. Prissy's fights on the other hand ore ones she didn't want to actually engage in and they were just "in her way" on the level of "getting annoying" and thus there was no reason to fight with her full power.
Prissy also didn't seem effected by the Destroyer attacks - same as with AO level ones.

Overall it's just that Prissy takes on such powerful opponents and dispatches them with ease while not even bothering to block or attack with full force.

In the end though your guess is as good as mine.

Come on Ryus, join in :p:D
You too Shieky (and I don't mean the Teresa vs Prissy debate :heh: )

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 13:21

You too Shieky (and I don't mean the Teresa vs Prissy debate )

What's the difference? questioning whether or not Priscilla was "good" basically is the Teresa vs Priscilla debate, veiled. Besides, one look at my avatar tells you which side I am on :heh:.

Key Board

2010-11-01, 13:22

So the only casualty so far is Miria?

Huh... that's a bit tame. I was expecting one more at least.

but even more surprising is clare didn't get to eat her limbs

I guess she already had her quota fulfilled by being a blob

Joe_fh

2010-11-01, 13:23

No no I mean the Destroyer and Prissy and where they stand...though honestly that's another pointless power debate since we lack facts... :heh:

I know which side you're on even without the avatar though :p

zato_1one

2010-11-01, 13:26

Ryus

2010-11-01, 13:27

Come on Ryus, join in :p:D
You too Shieky (and I don't mean the Teresa vs Prissy debate :heh: )
:D I really do want to join in but more debate = less time finding ch 109 :p:eyespin::p

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 13:31

Joe_fh

2010-11-01, 13:31

zato_1one that's not from this chapter it's from ch 106 :p

@Ryus: there's time for both :heh:
I can't seem to find anything besides the spoiler pics we already have though

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 13:31

Found this sig from someone in baidu.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9642/a828f312be665f61dc54016.jpg

I think that I never see this pic before. I suppose that it should be from this chapter. This pose is very suitable for her. She is THE QUEEN after all. :heh: Can't wait for the translation. :D

Zato....that pic is old now :heh:, that's from 107 if I recall...:p

No no I mean the Destroyer and Prissy and where they stand...though honestly that's another pointless power debate since we lack facts...

Oh, well....ya know, even if Claire joined with Raciella, their still has to be circumstances and stretches to pull her over the top; like the whole Teresa blackbox thing, or if Priscilla regresses...really, their are too many "What Ifs".

And it's possible like some say, that it may not even come down to a fight of power anyway; it may seem to some degree that Claire may actually have the advantage, but a "block" like when she tried to awaken may occur.

For example, Rafaela told her that she is making a fatal mistake, and this could be it...we're having a mental situation right now; the likelihood of Rafaela as well making a re-appearance, especially since she gave everything she had to her, is also very high.

This whole situation also has the makings of a stalemate; both of them may get out of this not having a grudge against eachother.

---

Tabitha was very pretty in that chapter....shoot, she's been quite attractive since she was unconscious on the floor thanks to Miria; and now it seems she's grown in size thanks to the spoiler pics :D.

rafael1932

2010-11-01, 13:31

Ryus

2010-11-01, 13:33

Tom Bombadil

2010-11-01, 13:36

Xellos-_^

2010-11-01, 13:39

from that blob that Claire is struck inside, what are the chance that Yagi have Teresa emerge form inside the blob.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 13:41

Heh, it's funny seeing people focus so much on Claire's situation when we're only getting a glimpse of it in 109 thanks to those spoiler pics.

I know - it already feels like we've read 109 because we already spoiled ourselves :heh:. Now we're already speculating for 110 :heh:.

Ryus

2010-11-01, 13:51

from that blob that Claire is struck inside, what are the chance that Yagi have Teresa emerge form inside the blob.

Actually as much as I hate the idea of the dead coming back to life... this theory has some merit. In ch 91/92 Clare was drawn by a force to Raphaela but Raphaela claimed she entered her (as if she had no role in this). So if both are telling the truth then another party brought them together. I've heard some state that it could be Teresa, Irene (be it her arm or person), and a few have stated it was #10 but since Clare's yoki was suppressed at the time that should be impossible, leaving Teresa & Irene as the only likely candidates.

zato_1one

2010-11-01, 13:52

LOL, silly me. My memory is really mess up. My head is so full in these days. :heh:

How could I forget Galatea-sama!?! Argghhh... I'm so irritated! May be it's time to go to sleep. :upset:

PS: Yeah, it's must be because of her sexy legs which caught me off guard. >_<

rafael1932

2010-11-01, 13:52

1 flap to ryus for the colored image

about fusions...
1st fusion was the rafaela and sister. they lost their mind/ personality after fusion.
the second fusion was clare trying to escape to the destroiyer. she escaped, so she has not a real fusion to brag off/ she escaped in the right time
3 fusion/ latest 1. if clare real fusion with the destroiyer then she loses her mind like the sisters, so she has still the real body in that bloob cause that had the will to destroy priss) there is no real fusion again or if she real fuses with that, she will became a human flesh hunter like the awakened? althought she is the main char( never dies) i am just looking for the story line to see yagi dont pull out a rabbit out of nowhere

Ryus

2010-11-01, 14:08

English ch is out

rzl

2010-11-01, 14:19

noooooo, next in january :(

Ryus

2010-11-01, 14:21

noooooo, next in january :(
:rolleyes: January issue comes out at the end of November/beginning of December. Magazines always run a month ahead. :heh:

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 14:33

I think the person who helped clare was rafaella. BUT there is still theresa, right?
This will be the last card to play.
I found it cute how galatea reacted that there is something stronger than AOs.
If she knew what gooral and i believe to know and that this something is part of clare, i think she and all the others would have seen clare with other eyes.
If this thing awakens and awaken it will i wonder what will happen. Interesting that it is now near rabona.
I guess the people of rabona will indeed see with their own eyes to what they have prayed for so long.

fraktur

2010-11-01, 14:36

noooooo, next in january :(
why does that happen every month?

chapter was really good. don't care about priscilla and claire, but i'm sure the ghosts will find a "seventh" warrior: raki. im betting he became something like a male claymore. what i dont get is: if he was turned by isley, why didn't renee sense that he was a one?

DragoZERO

2010-11-01, 14:39

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 14:40

Actually as much as I hate the idea of the dead coming back to life... this theory has some merit. In ch 91/92 Clare was drawn by a force to Raphaela but Raphaela claimed she entered her (as if she had no role in this). So if both are telling the truth then another party brought them together. I've heard some state that it could be Teresa, Irene (be it her arm or person), and a few have stated it was #10 but since Clare's yoki was suppressed at the time that should be impossible, leaving Teresa & Irene as the only likely candidates.

But the dead AREN'T coming back to life; this is just a astral projection so to speak.

Roflmao, "Abysmal One".....good grief :heh:.

Did anyone else catch Deneve's side-boob? Haha, Yagi putting some service in now.

He always had, but lately, it's more and more :heh:

Tabitha and Deneve definitely were the stars of this chapter :heh:.

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 14:41

If we think about priscilla's speed she would be in no time at rabona snack bar anyway.
There is no need trying her to get as far from rabona as possible.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 14:46

Well,at least we now know why Dietrich follows the Organization so strongly, more so then her "honor" and everything else. Finally clears up the confusion I would say, and gives us a look at who she truly is at heart :).

Overall, it was a satisfying chapter; pretty much what we all suspected, but it's something else entirely actually reading it. Answered a couple of questions....definitely a high number on the poll :)

Pulling Claire out also means pulling out Priscilla....I'm curious though if that also means pulling out Raciella...does Raciella, in a sense, even exist? or has Claire become Raciella and vice-versa? who exactly is in charge in that regard?

A bit curious about that issue.

Kind of bizarre how the English came out BEFORE the Chinese :heh:.

The most surprising thing about this chapter was that the Ghosts actually carried the gigantic husk back with them all the way to Rabona....my god, they are stronger then I thought, or that they is lighter then I thought :heh:.

Also answers the question of proof; their is no proof Miria is still alive, they are simply hoping. The "seventh" they bring back with them, could, shockingly, actually end up being Raki if it goes that way. Claire, Raki and Priscilla would then actually all be in the same place :O :D *wonders at the implications

Ryus

2010-11-01, 14:55

A lot of jumping around here. They brought the sealed monsters with them, that was crazy. I did like how we found out what happened to them though. I thought they were still fighting it out. But it's Rafaela & Clare vs. Priscilla. I think if no one interferes, they'll be locked up together forever.

And it's not Teresa. We will never see Teresa ever again.

Did anyone else catch Deneve's side-boob? Haha, Yagi putting some service in now.

My big concern is Raki. I think he has something implanted or grafted to his back. I wish I knew what those SFX were on that page though...

Need time to ponder this myself, so for the moment just reposting some old theories. I've had two theories with Raki a long time ago... one was Clare awakening affected him and the other was his time in the prison was the org starting to process of turning him into a yoma.

I've also heard Priscilla stuck just enough of her flesh inside of him to negate the effects of the rods but not make him an AF.

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 14:56

How could galatea miss the connection clare had to priscilla?
She simply had to remember why clare went suddenly nuts when riful was talking about the awakened being which teamed up with isley.
IMO yagi made a mistake here, galatea sama is not that stupid. She must know by now that this awakened being is the one horned monster and did something to clare which was such terrible that clare devoted her life to take revenge on that ab.
At least she recognised that miria wasn't fit for battle any more. I find deneve went to hard on miria.
Miria had her reasons.

FormerAbyssalone

2010-11-01, 15:00

How could galatea miss the connection clare had to priscilla?
She simply had to remember why clare went suddenly nuts when riful was talking about the awakened being which teamed up with isley.
IMO yagi made a mistake here, galatea sama is not that stupid. She must know by now that this awakened being is the one horned monster and did something to clare which was such terrible that clare devoted her life to take revenge on that ab.

Well Clare said she would destroy Isley's woman, she never said Priss's name!:D

Gooral

2010-11-01, 15:11

It looks like Claymores have super hearing. Judging by Galatea's comment they went quite a long distance and they still could hear and even pinpoint a location where Deneve and Taby were fighting. And Helen and Galatea could teleport to Rabona, lol. Why didn't they do the same earlier, when they went after the blob and why were they walking if it was so far? Obviously it wasn't and Galatea was only grumbling.

There are 2 things that I wish they would be answered ASAP. First - what's so obvious about Raki's condition? Why isn't he absorbed by the rods? Because he has abs? Second - how can Clare be brought back? Don't tell me it has anything to do with Raki because this wouldn't make any sense (for example Galatea shouldn't know about him).

konart

2010-11-01, 15:12

The chapter should be called "Ghost in the shell"

Ryus

2010-11-01, 15:14

The chapter should be called "Ghost in the shell"
So how does one regain there individuality once they've been assimilated by the will of a 3rd party? :heh::p:heh:

FormerAbyssalone

2010-11-01, 15:14

The chapter should be called "Ghost in the shell"

Clever, very clever!:heh: But that would be bad if they pulled Priss out that blob too.:uhoh:

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 15:15

Well Clare said she would destroy Isley's woman, she never said Priss's name!:D

Yeah but she knew that clare was after her and totally lost it when riful mentioned her and clare was able to identify her. She should know by now that this ab in the north and the monster clare had sealed are one and the same.

DragoZERO

2010-11-01, 15:20

The most surprising thing about this chapter was that the Ghosts actually carried the gigantic husk back with them all the way to Rabona....my god, they are stronger then I thought, or that they is lighter then I thought :heh:.Behold, the power of the plot device!

Also answers the question of proof; their is no proof Miria is still alive, they are simply hoping. Miria is dead. It would be really cheesy if she is still alive.

The "seventh" they bring back with them, could, shockingly, actually end up being Raki if it goes that way. Claire, Raki and Priscilla would then actually all be in the same place :O :D *wonders at the implicationsI can say with some certainty it won't be this fun: http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5814/rosario02lovetriangle27.jpg

Fenrir_valindri

2010-11-01, 15:20

Quite a few things worth nothing this chapter:

1 - Clare must have realized one of two things:

a) Priscilla was too strong for her to kill, so she simply used the Destroyer's strength to seal Priscilla away, so she won't threaten anyone ever again.

or

b) Clare realized that whether Priscilla or herself won, an Awakened Being of titanic power would still walk the lands completely unopposed, so decided to go the safest route, and neutralize the possibility of either by trapping Priscilla and herself together.

2 - Dietrich has finally learned the truth about the Organization, but is too shocked to fully accept the truth....yet.

So it is quite likely that once they reach the Organization, the full extent of their deeds will make Dietrich's defection complete.

3- Raki might be turning into a Hybrid

I notice the Rod wounds aren't bleeding, and there are no veins on Raki's shoulder were the rods are. So he might have a high compatibility with Yoma flesh, or maybe Priscilla did something to ensure Raki couldn't be completely taken over.

The first would certainly explain why Raki was instrumental in bringing back Clare from over her limit, and why Yoma seem to like his smell. :heh:

4 - and Most importantly (to us Miria fans at least):

The possibility of Miria being alive has been brought onto the table. While I am cautiously optimistic, it is still better then I have been since "that" chapter.

PLEASE BE ALIVE MIRIA TAICHOU!!!!! :upset:

I do hope to see Tabitha deliver that punch to Miria, because her actions that chapter definitely deserve it.

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 15:23

Miria is dead. It would be really cheesy if she is still alive.
And why had Dee to stop somewhere and was late? The possibility exists after all.

About the plot device - there is no such thing at least not here.
A claymore is superhuman. They are strong enough to carry enormous weights.
The sculpture is simply unhandy to carry.

Korinov

2010-11-01, 15:23

Great chapter.

Raki appears (it's been months since last time) and, while it's still not clear what's going on with him, it looks like he's already something more than just a normal human. Now then, what the hell can be on his back? Yoma flesh? A tentacle? Isley's face, Voldemort style? A tail? A tattoed map of some dungeon containing treasures? :D Damm you Yagi, what a cliffhangerous cutscene.

The Tabitha vs. Deneve fight is basically the characterization "in-manga" of the previous months battle between whiny ranting Miria fans vs. normal readers ;) Good point there, mr. mangaka.

FlareKnight

2010-11-01, 15:25

The characters might just be hoping, but even I'm thinking they might just find Miria alive. Which is odd considering that we saw what happened to her. Well I guess we'll see what happens.

Funny thing is they could actually return with a 7th person if they find the time to rescue Raki while down there.

Anyways time for the team to head to the organization and cause some chaos. If there is anything left of Miria to find they will find her.

Fenrir_valindri

2010-11-01, 15:28

Age old manga/anime truth, unless we see the body dead and buried, they aren't dead yet.

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 15:31

@Fenrir
you have read what i had written about dee's little box stop?
There is still hope my friend.

Blaat

2010-11-01, 15:37

So if Raki meets Claire/Priscilla will Claymore be renamed to: a boy and his blob: Adventures in Toulouse?

Fenrir_valindri

2010-11-01, 15:37

The Tabitha vs. Deneve fight is basically the characterization "in-manga" of the previous months battle between whiny ranting Miria fans vs. normal readers ;) Good point there, mr. mangaka.

Except so called "normal readers" were praising Miria's death, and were convinced her dying was a good thing, while Deneve believes she is still alive, and wants to go rescue her.

@ irvinethearcher;

Can't say that I have, link?

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 15:37

LOL-TIME!!!!

Why isn't he absorbed by the rods? Because he has abs?
LOL!

.....and it seems that my idea that Claire trapped Prissy inside that thing wasn't so dumb afterall,LOL......

And LOL also 'cause this confirms something else that i told in the past and that someone said it didn't make sense (i don't remember who): Deneve is the leader!!!!

final LOL for Tab,that was TOTALLY owned by Deneve......

I liked this chap a lot,'cause it answered some questions (we can consider Diet's case as close)......but this also means that my suffering will continue for some months before Claire will be finally back in action.I hope to see soon what's happening inside the soul-world,but i have the feeling that the next chaps will be focused on the ghosts attack......

(Btw,it seems we were REALLY UNDERSTIMATING the ghosts physical strenght.Taking that huge thing near Rabona is quite a feat!)

The ghosts will soon be in big trouble and i suppose that this could cause Claire to awaken and go to save them.Another thing that could cause the awakening of that thing is Raki situation.....i admit that once again i'm really curious to see what will happen next,that's why i love this manga so much.

Joe_fh

2010-11-01, 15:55

Wohoo I went to have dinner and rest a little and the chapter is now out. Perfect timing :heh:

So wait a minute...that Destroyer vortex really just swallowed up Prissy and this was the only thing left? I was really joking when I said this might have happened because...well it just seems sort to weird. Probably there was something more before that but the Ghosts couldn't see it since they were on the other side.

For some reason I have an image of Helen holding that giant chuck of flesh using her stretching limbs and skipping about with something that could practically wipe the life on the whole island like it was nothing :heh:

A few interesting things beside that which we can't really answer:
1) What was Dae doing; He stopped somewhere and for quite some time. I doubt it had something to do with Miria since he was unaware of what had happened at HQ. Since it's not connected to neither Raki nor Miria one possibility is that he went near the destroyer maybe to retrieve flesh from Alcia, Beth, Riful or infected Dauf. It might have been something else like simply observing the Destroyer up close.

2)Dae mentioned there was a lot of devastation. I wonder what could have caused that. The only thing I can think of is the twins but they didn't really stay in their awakened forms for too long. Everyone else was fighting using a regular Claymore so it's hard to cause any real damage to the scenery with that. Next best thing would be the rods from the Destroyer but a) we're not really sure about the time-line or if it fits b) Dae wouldn't be surprised since he already saw them up close. This leaves us with the conclusion that either the shrimps caused all that damage or something else we didn't get to see happened.

3)What was happening to Raki. He was resisting those rods for some reason. Obviously the MiBs figured it out but they only showed Dae...and from an angle that didn't actually give us any information at all.

Other things to note:
-For some reason it seems to me the wing on top of that "blob" comes into focus when they talk about Prissy yet it looks nothing like her wing.

-The line at the end...."to save Miria' there are way too many suggestions that MIria is alive in this chapter. They're practically talking as if she is.

-Dee's character turned out to have the history we all thought would have. No big surprise there but this makes understanding her character easier since we actually get to hear her own reason straight from her and not just judge her by her actions and reach a similar conclusion.

I guess that's all I could think of now without going in detail.

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 16:01

-The line at the end...."to save Miria' there are way too many suggestions that MIria is alive in this chapter. They're practically talking as if she is.
True...but are we sure that being alive is really a good thing?
I don't know why but i fear that even if she is alive the org may have done something strange to her.......hope to be wrong.

Newhope

2010-11-01, 16:06

Chapter near enough comfirms Miria's still alive and looks like Dietrich will join the ghosts after all.

Gooral

2010-11-01, 16:11

@Malak
I was thinking about some kind of barrier also (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3170827#post3170827) and in a way I might have been dead-on.

Anyway, it looks to me we might have real carnage next month and many ghosts may die. Galatea with Clarice and Miata separating from the ghosts suggests so. It worries me because we would have opened doors for a change of players. Yagi could get rid of all the ghosts and focus on Galatea, Miata and Clarice (which weren't introduced just for lolz I assume). Maybe Dee would survive and somehow contact Raki (or someone other but no more than one) but something tells me that their encounter with MiB won't end well. I just can't see how they could get rid of MiB without Clare's help, I even doubt that Miria could defeat them even without #10s interference. Judging by their poker-faces I'm sure they have sth else up their sleeves.

Newhope

2010-11-01, 16:16

I don't think the 6 going to the ORG are in that much danger my guts tell me the most likely scenario is there forced to fight and kill Miria.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 16:16

Some things I want to get off my mind;

Worthy praise; Yagi has been on a roll lately; an overall solid chapter, just like last one. Nice fight, nice art, answered some questions, a nice "indepth" look at Deneve and Tabitha (:D; I swear that she got an increase; Deneve's back...it's kind of attractive to be honest, though I don't go as far as Gangsta does :heh:)....no complaints whatsoever :D.

I also like to point out that this had the most number of characters I've seen in a long time in a single chapter, if you count Claire, Raciella and Priscilla; I'm not sure if it breaks any record, but I don't remember seeing so many characters in a single chapter recently.

I feel this chapter, in a subtle kind of way, kind of implied that Dietrich may not be the freckle-girl that Claire met in the west; listening to her story....she failed to bring up the number of Yoma which was due to Riful, not the Organization, not bringing up Jean, Katea and overall, the number of Claymores that past through the town.....overall...I just didn't get the impression that she was the same girl.

No, I don't think the idea of making Dietrich the same girl as the freckle-girl has crossed his mind; I think they are two totally different characters.

Raki was successfully brought to the Organization....slight disappointment; I remember coming up with lots of ideas from time to time about possibly escaping before he got there, or someone rescuing him. I guess it doesn't matter; the Ghosts are heading for Staff now, and it's unlikely that they will be able to do anything to him before they get there.

My question still stands to any who wants to answer; do you think Raciella is still alive, or has Claire become Raciella and vice-versa? It doesn't really make any sense if she is, but alot of people are basically coming up with nicknames like "Claire the Destroyer" and so on, basically saying something like that. If Claire and Priscilla comes out, what's stopping Raciella as well?

I'm not sure I like the idea of Claire suddenly having all of Raciella's powers now; talk about extremely cheap, though not as cheap if she does, and manages to get off scot-free and escape. This was an extremely big decision on her part to let herself get absorbed by Raciella; she should face some consequences for it, and not simply get a super power-boost to face off against her adversary.

Hehe, I laughed at Galatea not being religious at all....it's a big idea in fanfiction that she is the exact opposite; kind of ironic :heh:.

Another thing: "Either way, this town was saved by you all, I can overlook some things..."

Roflmao, what's that supposed to mean? Does Galatea think she own Rabona now or is the Boss of the Ghosts? :heh: :rolleyes:

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 16:20

Anyway, it looks to me we might have real carnage next month and many ghosts may die. Galatea with Clarice and Miata separating from the ghosts suggests so. It worries me because we would have opened doors for a change of players. Yagi could get rid of all the ghosts and focus on Galatea, Miata and Clarice (which weren't introduced just for lolz I assume). Maybe Dee would survive and somehow contact Raki (or someone other but no more than one) but something tells me that their encounter with MiB won't end well. I just can't see how they could get rid of MiB without Clare's help, I even doubt that Miria could defeat them even without #10s interference. Judging by their poker-faces I'm sure they have sth else up their sleeves.
Agree,that's exactly what i fear.The Mibs are too calm....something is not right.......but who knows,maybe it won't be Claire to save the ghosts like i supposed before,maybe it will be Raki,that would be an interesting scenario.

I feel this chapter, in a subtle kind of way, kind of implied that Dietrich may not be the freckle-girl that Claire met in the west; listening to her story....she failed to bring up the number of Yoma which was due to Riful, not the Organization, not bringing up Jean, Katea and overall, the number of Claymores that past through the town.....overall...I just didn't get the impression that she was the same girl.
Agree.From what she said it surely doesn't seem to be that girl.

Newhope

2010-11-01, 16:30

My question still stands to any who wants to answer; do you think Raciella is still alive, or has Claire become Raciella and vice-versa? It doesn't really make any sense if she is, but alot of people are basically coming up with nicknames like "Claire the Destroyer" and so on, basically saying something like that. If Claire and Priscilla comes out, what's stopping Raciella as well?

There's a number of possibilities.

1:Claire comes out the same way she was before.
2:The three people in the blob merge (multi personalities)
3:The three people in the blob merge and become someone new
4:Merge and become a new AB or even something completely new.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 16:32

There's a number of possibilities.

1:Claire comes out the same way she was before.
2:The three people in the blob merge (multi personalities)
3:The three people in the blob merge and become someone new
4:Merge and become a new AB or even something completely new.

Ehh, I don't really like any of them, except number 1; I'm not so sure about what will become of Raciella, but I don't think I like Claire or Priscilla going through changes like that.

Agree.From what she said it surely doesn't seem to be that girl.

Ya see? It is possible for us to agree with eachother :D:heh::D:p

FlareKnight

2010-11-01, 16:35

Age old manga/anime truth, unless we see the body dead and buried, they aren't dead yet.A good point. After all by this we can still argue that Irene is alive and well enjoying a vacation somewhere :). Miria was pretty close with the mad hacking, but suppose anything is possible.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 16:38

A good point. After all by this we can still argue that Irene is alive and well enjoying a vacation somewhere :). Miria was pretty close with the mad hacking, but suppose anything is possible.

Their comes a point though where you have to call them dead regardless because bringing them back after a million years is just plain stupid.

Irene is dead, bringing back at this point wouldn't make any sense no matter how much he tries to rationalize and explain it; Renee I have also all but given up hope for.

To be honest, at this point, I've basically given up and am starting to call her dead.

seiftis

2010-11-01, 16:41

I'll be praying to Rabona's god together with Galatea, "Please bring back Miria, alive". :upset::upset:

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 16:45

Except so called "normal readers" were praising Miria's death, and were convinced her dying was a good thing, while Deneve believes she is still alive, and wants to go rescue her.

@ irvinethearcher;

Can't say that I have, link?
My mistake, the chief researcher dae, not dietrich, had to stop somewhere and was therefore late and excusing himself to the other guy who had carried raki to the org.

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 16:46

Ya see? It is possible for us to agree with eachother
Hahahaha! Yes,it's really possible!!!
Joke aside,i remember agreeing with you quite a lot in past chapters,it's just casual that in the last ones we had contrary opinions,it had to happen sooner or later,lol.

Irene is dead, bringing back at this point wouldn't make any sense no matter how much he tries to rationalize and explain it;
NOOOOO!!!!I'll NEVER accept Irene's death untill it's confirmed!!! :T_T:

Time for some speculation:
IMO Isley has implanted some of his own flash to Raki,this way he would be a bit similar to AFs (only a bit!),so like the AFs he is somewhat immune to the rods....this could also explain how he is able to be super-strong and not be able to feel yoki (AFs can't do this either).

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 16:54

Chapter near enough comfirms Miria's still alive and looks like Dietrich will join the ghosts after all.

I didn't notice you say this before; how on earth do you think that?

All this chapter has shown is that Deneve doesn't want to give up or any of the others as well; that she has a strong will, alongside saying sometimes some very very stupid things.

How does she get off saying Miria betrayed them? She saved her life more then once for crying out loud. We can analyze and dislike Miria for the reasons for going, but none of us felt that Miria going off on her own is the same as betrayal; stupid, but not betrayal.

Saying something like that doesn't even make any sense, and is worthy of getting a punch in the face.

And yet, after insulting Miria, she still has hope that she wants to save her :rolleyes:. Deneve's attitude is just nonsensical sometimes, but she has always been extremely brash like this.

In a way...her taking on an almost-leadership role kind of pushes the whole 'Deneve's group' thing we got last chapter, that Deneve is now the unofficial leader of the group; I don't know why her of all people, I would have voted for Galatea, but she wants to stay behind in Rabona (which I do agree with). Looking at the six remaining Ghosts, none of them really have any leadership qualities and would get my vote; I guess it fell to a measure of strength, and Deneve is among the top.

Dietrich does have some leadership qualities, but she definitely wouldn't be elected; she hasn't even been around them long enough for them to do something like that, or is even really a member yet; she's more "in-transition" and is just tagging along still.

Ryus

2010-11-01, 16:54

I'll be praying to Rabona's god together with Galatea, "Please bring back Miria, alive". :upset::upset:

You don't even know what god that is. :rolleyes::heh::p

DragoZERO

2010-11-01, 16:55

You don't even know what god that is. :rolleyes::heh::p
He just wants to be with Galatea, shhh.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 17:00

Would Rabona's god be the Twin Goddess'? :confused:...

Ryus

2010-11-01, 17:01

He just wants to be with Galatea, shhh.

Too bad for me the ones I want to be with are trapped in a blob. :heh: (though I'll give shieky Priscilla... she'll eat him right up)

Seems 4 hot women plus Priscilla = yoma poop. So logically Priscilla's so ugly (a negative number) as to top Teresa, Luciela, Raphaela, and Clare's beauty. :p

MisterJB

2010-11-01, 17:08

Dae-sama is bringing the awesome back to this manga.:D

I did not see Clare and Priscilla turning into the Blob. So, what does that mean? That not even the Destroyer was powerful enough to kill Priscilla so Clare sealed her away?

http://i55.tinypic.com/11vrx9x.jpg

Deneve, how long has it been since I said that I love you? You are so hot and that was so badass.

Would Rabona's god be the Twin Goddess'?

No, it's a nameless deity.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 17:09

Too bad for me the ones I want to be with are trapped in a blob. :heh: (though I'll give shieky Priscilla... she'll eat him right up)

Seems 4 hot women plus Priscilla = yoma poop. So logically Priscilla's so ugly (a negative number) as to top Teresa, Luciela, Raphaela, and Clare's beauty. :p

I got confused reading your post (4? :confused: :p) at first :heh:.

Isn't Ophelia in there somewhere as well? I think we agreed on that :heh: :p.

Don't bring Math into this; beauty is never educational :heh::heh::heh:

And besides, Prissy's easily hotter then all of them combined :argue::bash::bash::nono:

Deneve, how long has it been since I said that I love you? You are so hot and that was so badass.

I know; call me crazy, but her back is actually attractive :D :D :D

And let's not forget that better side-shot of her :p. Either we've never gotten close-ups of her, or she's actually grown as well :D

Newhope

2010-11-01, 17:13

I didn't notice you say this before; how on earth do you think that?

Because it's typical Shonen writing they'll go to save her where they'll either have to kill her which will lead to a new leader or sacrifice somebody to save her(probably Tabitha)which with sake Miria which will lead her to leading properly which will lead to a proper war against the ORG, as I said before chapter 107 had haha fool you written all over it.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 17:16

Because it's typical Shonen writing they'll go to save her where they'll either have to kill her which will lead to a new leader or sacrifice somebody to save her(probably Tabitha)which with sake Miria which will lead her to leading properly which will lead to a proper war against the ORG, as I said before chapter 107 had haha fool you written all over it.

Oh come on, that's just silly; the last thing we should be doing is start thinking like that and bringing up references, examples, etc etc...all it does is dilute the manga.

Miria is dead; we saw it happen plain as day, it's just wishful thinking on their part.

The only person they are going to meet at Staff is gonna be Raki no doubt, and perhaps, Raftela and the new Twins.

seiftis

2010-11-01, 17:18

You don't even know what god that is. :rolleyes::heh::p
I'll just bring Haruhi in. :heh: [/off-topic]

Until now, I refused to read the chapter Miria was mindf*cked.

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 17:22

I did not see Clare and Priscilla turning into the Blob. So, what does that mean? That not even the Destroyer was powerful enough to kill Priscilla so Clare sealed her away?
You could also see the thing the other way around: Priscilla wasn't strong enough to kill Claire the destroyer,and so she was sealed.
Anyway it seems that CtD is indeed a bit stronger than Prissy,or at least on the same level.

Anyway Claire is the hottest.End of discussion,lol.

Fenrir_valindri

2010-11-01, 17:24

How does she get off saying Miria betrayed them? She saved her life more then once for crying out loud. We can analyze and dislike Miria for the reasons for going, but none of us felt that Miria going off on her own is the same as betrayal; stupid, but not betrayal.

Saying something like that doesn't even make any sense, and is worthy of getting a punch in the face.

Actually, it does make perfect sense.

To the Ghosts, it was a betrayal of trust, they trusted Miria to lead them, and Miria was supposed to trust them to fight along side her.

But instead Miria decided to leave them behind to fight the Organization on her own, thus breaking that trust.

It is very much a betrayal in that sense, and that is exactly what Deneve meant.

--

As for it being all but confirmed that Miria may be alive:

1- All the Ghosts seem convinced that she is, and are willing to put their own lives at risk to attempt a rescue; rule of shounen (and storytelling in general) makes her survival a LOT more likely.

2- The ending caption of the chapter outright says they are headed towards a decisive battle against the organization to save Miria, this is also a direct suggestion that Miria is indeed alive by the author himself.

Of course, Claymore being what it is, it is also quite possible she will be dead/or worse, but the possibility is very much back on the table that she lives.

I don't know why her of all people, I would have voted for Galatea, but she wants to stay behind in Rabona (which I do agree with). Looking at the six remaining Ghosts, none of them really have any leadership qualities and would get my vote; I guess it fell to a measure of strength, and Deneve is among the top.

Deneve is the best choice for leadership at this point. Galatea wants nothing to do with their crusade against the Organization and intends to stay at Rabona.

Clare is in a flesh-ball with Priscilla, Tabitha is still distraught from Miria's supposed death, Helen is too immature/emotional, Cynthia is a death seeker, Yuma has a follower mentality, and Dietrich is still undecided/new.

Deneve makes the most logical choice to take over the leadership role in Miria and Clare's absence. She has the strength to put the other Ghosts in their place when they are being stupid (like Tabitha was), yet still represents the best interests of the Ghosts as a whole.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 17:26

You could also see the thing the other way around: Priscilla wasn't strong enough to kill Claire the destroyer,and so she was sealed.
Anyway it seems that CtD is indeed a bit stronger than Prissy,or at least on the same level.

Anyway Claire is the hottest.End of discussion,lol.

It all brings up the question on how Priscilla allowed herself to get captured; she could have easily just blasted and flown out of there, we've seen her show she could.

For all we know, Priscilla let herself get captured; after all, she is (apparently) chasing after Claire as well, so leaving would actually be detrimental.

Time will tell, but I doubt Claire simply overwhelmed Priscilla; it implies that many things concerning power that is just too simplistic for my taste.

Actually, it does make perfect sense.

To the Ghosts, it was a betrayal of trust, they trusted Miria to lead them, and Miria was supposed to trust them to fight along side her.

But instead Miria decided to leave them behind to fight the Organization on her own, thus breaking that trust.

It is very much a betrayal in that sense, and that is exactly what Deneve meant.

Oh brother, what are they, babies? :heh:

Come on Fenrir; it's beyond rational thinking to think such a thing. Don't they even wonder at what could have caused Miria to go off on her own? Haven't they trusted Miria for so long as you say? How weak is this trust for them to assume that she turned her back on them to fight on her own, especially when they know she couldn't do it on her own?

It's beyond childish to think Miria betrayed them.

1- All the Ghosts seem convinced that she is, and are willing to put their own lives at risk to attempt a rescue; rule of shounen (and storytelling in general) makes her survival a LOT more likely

And once again, the whole "shonen" stupidity.

Guys, stop dilluting the story and bringing up conventions like that their's no such thing as "rules" like that. This story hasn't seperated itself from the typical to tie itself to stuff like that; this isn't the anime.

2- The ending caption of the chapter outright says they are headed towards a decisive battle against the organization to save Miria, this is also a direct suggestion that Miria is indeed alive by the author himself.

The only thing the caption does is state outright what they intend to do; that doesn't mean it's even possible. The captions more then once have said things that don't make any sense or contradicted what's happened in the actual story.

The truth is what Deneve outright said, that's it's their hope to find Miria alive because she doesn't want to give up; how on earth could Miria still be alive after we saw her die like she did?

Well? Does anyone have explanations for how Miria could be alive if that seems to be the popular idea?

I can't believe you guys still have this wishful thinking so much; let the dead stay dead. Bringing up her after watching her fall to pieces like that and after all the rage in the last couple of months, only takes the story down several notches in just about every category. That MiB outright says to Dae that the whole situation was "petty"; if she was captured or something like that happened, he would have said something.

As for Deneve taking over, I can see the reasons why, though I think it just has more to do with strength; regardless, she's sadly not what I would think of as leadership-material, though their's nothing that can be done about it.

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 17:29

It seems no one gets that PERHAPS dae was late because of miria. So she is alive but probably captive perhaps showing something of interest for dae?

Fenrir_valindri

2010-11-01, 17:30

It is quite possible Clare realized that Priscilla is basically immortal due to her insane regenerative powers, and simply opted to trap her entirely.

As for why Priscilla can't break out, there are several possibilities:

1- The Destroyer is physically powerful enough to trap her in place by using all of its strength.

2 - Priscilla's mobility is limited due to the destroyer engulfing her, she simply can't move enough to break herself free.

3 - Mental shenanigans is taking place like Clare w/ Raphaela, and Priscilla is in a coma like state.

@irvinethearcher;

I find that unlikely personally, because Dae seem confused as to why the Organization looked like a mess upon his arrival.

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 17:35

It all brings up the question on how Priscilla allowed herself to get captured; she could have easily just blasted and flown out of there, we've seen her show she could.

For all we know, Priscilla let herself get captured; after all, she is (apparently) chasing after Claire as well, so leaving would actually be detrimental.

Time will tell, but I doubt Claire simply overwhelmed Priscilla; it implies that many things concerning power that is just too simplistic for my taste.

Possible,but i really doubt it.
I don't see why Prissy would let herself get sealed like that,it's not a very wise move....especially since she had already accepted that she would have killed the destroyer as a substitute for Claire,so no,imo she didn't let herself get captured,simply she couldn't escape from Ctd.
Prissy is surely uber-strong,but she's not invincible.
....and btw for all we know it's highly possible that the battle between Claire and Prissy is going on in the soul-world......and if that's what's really happening,it seems that Claire and Prissy are equal in power since there is still no winner.

Ryus

2010-11-01, 17:36

Random thought...

What if Clare didn't try to keep her and Priscilla trapped so neither could harm people but is just trying to slowly absorb Priscilla in order to kill her? Hard to put to words but Priscilla is so strong The Destroyer can't absorb her quickly enough to ensure victory... so Clare choose to trap her mind and merge bodies so she could absorb the body when Priscilla is distracted trying to free her mind.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 17:41

Possible,but i really doubt it.
I don't see why Prissy would let herself get sealed like that,it's not a very wise move....especially since she had already accepted that she would have killed the destroyer as a substitute for Claire,so no,imo she didn't let herself get captured,simply she couldn't escape from Ctd.
Prissy is surely uber-strong,but she's not invincible.

How on earth is Raciella stronger though? We saw her easily blast her apart.

Claire doesn't add much strength either, unless we are dealing with the whole "blackbox" stuff which is still just speculation and stretches.

I think we'll get our answers pretty soon though.

3 - Mental shenanigans is taking place like Clare w/ Raphaela, and Priscilla is in a coma like state

This; we're definitely leading up to a mental battle.

What if Clare didn't try to keep her and Priscilla trapped so neither could harm people but is just trying to slowly absorb Priscilla in order to kill her? Hard to put to words but Priscilla is so strong The Destroyer can't absorb her quickly enough to ensure victory... so Clare choose to trap her mind and merge bodies so she could absorb the body when Priscilla is distracted trying to free her mind.
__________________

I don't know Ryus....something like that sounds like it could take forever.....her power is just too much. Absorbing her in such a manner could take a looong time, not to mention their's no guarentee that Claire could escape anyway.

I'm still trying to figure out how Claire could "control" Raciella anyway; that part still boggles my mind. The way people describe it...it's like Raciella is a car and all you had to do was get inside to drive it 0_o :heh:.

Newhope

2010-11-01, 17:42

The chapter just shows the Destroyer isn't powerful enough to destory Priscilla but is strong enough to contain her, Claire probably figure that out and decided to become a living prison.

An4rchy99

2010-11-01, 17:44

Battler-kun

2010-11-01, 17:45

Gogo Priscilla!

I pray for you!

Battler-kun

2010-11-01, 17:46

Raki obviously will play the major role in freeing Claire again.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 17:49

No Ophy, Galatea mentioned Raciella; she said "Claire and something else..."

I guess this would mean that the fight was never over. I doubt a mental battle is on going. If it was, it should be more unstable. Or atleast more vibrant (as with Raph's case).

I don't know....Rafaela was specifically calling for Claire, which is why only Claire was affected; in this case, nobody inside this thing is calling for anybody so it makes sense why anything going on in their isn't affecting anyone on the outside.

Time will definitely answer all our questions on this topic.

Newhope, that sounds plausible; like Galatea said, Claire probably knows getting out means freeing Priscilla as well, so she won't let herself get freed. She seems resigned to letting herself to torture and wittle Priscilla away in this "prison".

Which all but confirms that the only way we will ever see either again, is if either Priscilla escapes, or if Claire willfully allows to release Priscilla when she attempts to get out; more likely the latter will happen, if we are to ever see her again in the real world.

btw. Did Yagi just improve the cleavage on Deneve or what?

I think he did; on her and on Tabitha :heh:.

Ryus

2010-11-01, 17:54

Well, though a bit heavy on the dialogue, this is a great chapter. It seems even Miria might be alive...

So indeed Prissy was in the blob after all... I think Prissy was too cocky, and when all the Destroyer matter compressed, it was far too dense for her to break out. We saw the mass of it... so its like a mountain collapsing to a boulder. Some how, I find it strange that Galatae did not mention a third yoki. This would almost certainly mean that Clare has managed to absorb all the yoki of Destroyer.

I guess this would mean that the fight was never over. I doubt a mental battle is on going. If it was, it should be more unstable. Or atleast more vibrant (as with Raph's case).

Interesting to note about Diet. So indeed she was blindly following the org. Nothing more to push on that.

btw. Did Yagi just improve the cleavage on Deneve or what?
ps. does this chapter mean next one is in 2 months time?

No This ch was in the December issue... so next ch is in the January issue. Mags run a month ahead, so the January issue gets released in the beginning of December.

Next off Galatea did mention 3 being... so even though she didn't say 3 yoki's she some how knew another force played a role.

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/LordRyus/Claymore_109_12.png

The lack of a 3rd yoki being mentioned could mean that Clare's yoki is in sync with the other being... so Galatea could only read one yoki wave length that wasn't Priscilla's. Now as to what there yoki wave lengths matching means is the question...

Fenrir_valindri

2010-11-01, 17:57

Oh brother, what are they, babies? :heh:

Come on Fenrir; it's beyond rational thinking to think such a thing. Don't they even wonder at what could have caused Miria to go off on her own? Haven't they trusted Miria for so long as you say? How weak is this trust for them to assume that she turned her back on them to fight on her own, especially when they know she couldn't do it on her own?

It's beyond childish to think Miria betrayed them.

But it is a sound train of thought, it is far from childish to think Miria betrayed them, when she effectively did.

She didn't betray them in the sense she defected to another side, she betrayed them by not trusting them. They have gone through over 7 years off hardship together and trusted each other with their lives.

Yet in Deneve's eyes, Miria effectively abandoned them because she didn't trust them enough, which is completely true in this case. Miria didn't trust them to be able to fight and potentially kill other warriors, and left them behind as a result. Effectively spitting on their friendship as a result.

I know if I swore to fight and die besides someone and they left me behind because they couldn't trust me to get the job done, I'd feel pretty damn betrayed myself.

And once again, the whole "shonen" stupidity.

Guys, stop dilluting the story and bringing up conventions like that their's no such thing as "rules" like that. This story hasn't seperated itself from the typical to tie itself to stuff like that; this isn't the anime.

I disagree, there are many elements that are effectively "rules" in almost any form of story telling.

Despite its unexpected twists and great story telling, Claymore still has a great number of "stereotypical" story elements and twists. This could just be one of those events that fall into the "stereotypical" element.

The only thing the caption does is state outright what they intend to do; that doesn't mean it's even possible. The captions more then once have said things that don't make any sense or contradicted what's happened in the actual story.

I'll also point out that we have no actual confirmation of Miria's death. We saw her get hacked up, but we have seen characters in terrible condition survive supposed fatal wounds as well.

The truth is what Deneve outright said, that's it's their hope to find Miria alive because she doesn't want to give up; how on earth could Miria still be alive after we saw her die like she did?

How did the Ghosts survive the war in the North?

How the hell is Clare still alive after being TORN IN HALF?

How is Raki alive when he got hit by a rod that consumed all other humans, and turned the strongest warrior of the Organization into an Awakened Being?

The answer to the above is easy; because plot demands it. If Yagi wants to keep Miria alive for a dramatic battle/rescue, then he is fully capable of creating a reason for it.

-----

In a story were characters are capable of regeneration and enhanced levels of regeneration exists through Yoki, it is entirely possible she could survive that incident.

Heck, Ophielia survived being blenderized by Irene long enough to get away and awaken because she was pissed off.
I don't see why a powerful Warrior like Miria couldn't have survived such injuries, so long as they didn't cut off her head.

------

Heck, I could think of a couple of reasons for the Organization to keep her alive:

1- Study/Experimentation

Miria was ranked #6 and sent on a suicide mission 7 years ago, but has returned with the strength to nearly topple the Organization by herself. I'd imagine they would like to know how the hell that is possible, and if they could replicate the results in their future warriors.

2-Interrogation

They realize that Miria has comrades that are unaccounted for, and will want to know where they are, their strength and abilities. It is quite possible (especially with girl-aizen) that they could extract such vital information from her.

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 17:58

How on earth is Raciella stronger though? We saw her easily blast her apart.

Claire doesn't add much strength either, unless we are dealing with the whole "blackbox" stuff which is still just speculation and stretches.
Who said that Claire doesn't add al ot of strenght?
It's absolutely possible for Claire to be even stronger than Priscilla,but anyway since we can't prove anyting about this atm it's best to avoid this discussion.
On the other hand,it's quite obvious that even if Priscilla allowed herself to be captured like you said (and i don't belive this),it means that she did so to fight against Claire,following this logic this means that Claire and Prissy are fighting in the soul-world and that Prissy and Claire are equal in strenght 'cause if Prissy was indeed stronger she would have destroyed Claire and taken control of the situation....but it's a fact that this isn't happening.

I don't know....Rafaela was specifically calling for Claire, which is why only Claire was affected; in this case, nobody inside this thing is calling for anybody so it makes sense why anything going on in their isn't affecting anyone on the outside.
Agree 100% on this.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 17:59

The lack of a 3rd yoki being mentioned could mean that Clare's yoki is in sync with the other being... so Galatea could only read one yoki wave length. Now as to what there yoki wave lengths matching means is the question...

Giving it some thought....it could be that Raciella feels a connection with Claire in that it senses Rafaela inside of her, which it wants in order to feel more "whole" and "complete", which could explain why they "worked together".

I won't say control, but I just don't understand how Claire could control Raciella yet; if their was an quid pro quo sort of thing, It makes more sense.

Or maybe it's nothing like this at all; Priscilla went after Raciella; perhaps Claire simply lost herself and it was Raciella alone who captured Priscilla.

Their's still alot of questions and confusion surrounding this whole thing, we only got the surface today; time will definitely answer more on what exactly is going on around here.

But it is a sound train of thought, it is far from childish to think Miria betrayed them, when she effectively did.

She didn't betray them in the sense she defected to another side, she betrayed them by not trusting them. They have gone through over 7 years off hardship together and trusted each other with their lives.

Yet in Deneve's eyes, Miria effectively abandoned them because she didn't trust them enough, which is completely true in this case. Miria didn't trust them to be able to fight and potentially kill other warriors, and left them behind as a result.

Betray is simply too strong of a word; It's not that Miria didn't trust them, she simply thought she was doing them all a favor. The idea of looking at her like an overbearing parent comes back. It's grossly wrong to say something like that; Miria was so completely stupid for doing what she did, but in the end, she did it for them.

They just don't know any better.

I disagree, there are many elements that are effectively "rules" in almost any form of story telling.

Despite its unexpected twists and great story telling, Claymore still has a great number of "stereotypical" story elements and twists. This could just be one of those events that fall into the "stereotypical" element.

Fenrir, I just flat-out disagree.

The whole thing just makes me shake my head; all people have right now is wishful thinking. Relying on stereotype to support your idea is about as basic as you can go.

Give me proof; don't just say that another story did something similar which is why.

I'll also point out that we have no actual confirmation of Miria's death. We saw her get hacked up, but we have seen characters in terrible condition survive supposed fatal wounds as well.

I say again; isn't that MiB's words also proof enough? If they had captured her, he would have said something, but the most he said was that the whole thing was "petty" and not important. Sounds to me like the whole thing has been dealt with; hence, she's a goner.

As for your reasons why you think Miria can be dead; what about Isley, do you think he could still be alive because we also only saw him get cut up? We also heard his final thoughts and, as whole, the whole thing was very very similar to the treatment Miria got. Saying he might be alive is just the same; wishful thinking.

Yeah, their are reasons why capturing her would have had it's merits, but the MiB's assessment of the whole situation ("Petty, unimportant") says otherwise on how they handled the situation, probably because they have more important things at their disposal now (Raki).

By no means am I bashing Miria; I just don't see any reason to assume she is alive, and I'm definitely not going to chalk it up to something cheap and basic as plot-devices or stereotypes when their's just no logic in them. If Miria really is still alive, after everything we saw in fine detail....frankly, the whole story is going down a few notches for appeasing to fans like that, especially after teasing them to the point of going RAAAAGE for two months.

----

Who said that Claire doesn't add al ot of strenght?
It's absolutely possible for Claire to be even stronger than Priscilla,but anyway since we can't prove anyting about this atm it's best to avoid this discussion.

Yeah, I'm not getting into that with you again Malak :heh:

On the other hand,it's quite obvious that even if Priscilla allowed herself to be captured like you said (and i don't belive this),it means that she did so to fight against Claire,following this logic this means that Claire and Prissy are fighting in the soul-world and that Prissy and Claire are equal in strenght 'cause if Prissy was indeed stronger she would have destroyed Claire and taken control of the situation....but it's a fact that this isn't happening.

Hasn't Newhope also said though that this was a battle of wills and not merely a battle of power?

Power has alot to do with it, because I believe Claire really was stronger then Rafaela, but the mental world, to be honest, is really "anything goes". For all we know, Priscilla and Claire could be getting glimpses into eachother's minds or even talking to eachother. Teresa and other mental astral projections could be making appearances...

Their is a million reasons why the battle may not have ended yet; Claire however, is definitely not in charge. We'll have to actually see what's going on to go any further on this.

An4rchy99

2010-11-01, 18:04

@Shiek927

Hmmm. I guess I would see some other translations to confirm this. Btw, so your saying that Miria being alive is only in the ghosts mind? Well... I wonder why Yagi decided to take them all to the org... it seems its going to have only one outcome... end of org > end of current story, moving on to mainland.... or they all screw up... and suddenly Clare appears (all shounen super hero style) and rescue them... (either way lame for me)

But seriously... I still have doubts Miria actually died in the battle we saw. My bet is on she was mind fracked and thats what we saw. She could be a captive or maybe killed afterwards, we can't be too sure. (oh well, I am hoping for the best or this would be one huge screw for the ghosts)

The chapter just shows the Destroyer isn't powerful enough to destory Priscilla but is strong enough to contain her, Claire probably figure that out and decided to become a living prison.

This is what Gala also explains. Clare is the mind for the huge mass of yoki. So it needs a mind to keep Prissy in there. Still for all of them to bring that mass... wow, they are either very stupid, or very brave, (or a third option might Clare telling them somehow...?)

btw. since we did not see Rubel, he could probably be on some kind of mission to warn off the ghosts? or expecting to meet them before they make contact with the org?

(@Ryus: thnx for the clarification!)oh, well, theres a lot to talk on this chap. will jump in some other time. Have fun, mi'nna :)

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 18:07

....strange that no one commented on my speculation about Raki....it seems that Raki is not an "hot topic" atm,lol.

Newhope

2010-11-01, 18:08

How on earth is Raciella stronger though? We saw her easily blast her apart.

Claire doesn't add much strength either, unless we are dealing with the whole "blackbox" stuff which is still just speculation and stretches.

Raciella isn't stronger she's probably just strong enough to contain Priscilla maybe along with some sort of mindgame, and the part she "easily blast her apart" was just like Priscilla said it was just an ornament the real destoryer was the gaint blob.

Awakened

2010-11-01, 18:08

Ryus

2010-11-01, 18:13

....strange that no one commented on my speculation about Raki....it seems that Raki is not an "hot topic" atm,lol.

No females are posting as of yet :rolleyes:... very odd when you think about it... :heh:

I heard cami is going crazy over his lack of a shirt from gangsta though. :heh:

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 18:16

No females are posting as of yet :rolleyes:... very odd when you think about it... :heh:

I heard cami is going crazy over his lack of a shirt from gangsta though. :heh:

True.It seems that females like topics about Raki a lot, i wonder why........ :D:D:D

DragoZERO

2010-11-01, 18:17

Need time to ponder this myself, so for the moment just reposting some old theories. I've had two theories with Raki a long time ago... one was Clare awakening affected him and the other was his time in the prison was the org starting to process of turning him into a yoma.

I've also heard Priscilla stuck just enough of her flesh inside of him to negate the effects of the rods but not make him an AF.My original theory is that Raki, like other humans on the island, are slightly difference and so they appeal to yoma. I then continue to say that being subjected to Claire's (and Teresa's) intense yoki changed him a little, and then who knows what happened with Priscilla during that time.

Sorry for the late reply to this.

And I can't keep up with you guys. You need a chatroom!!

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 18:18

Hmmm. I guess I would see some other translations to confirm this. Btw, so your saying that Miria being alive is only in the ghosts mind? Well... I wonder why Yagi decided to take them all to the org... it seems its going to have only one outcome... end of org > end of current story, moving on to mainland.... or they all screw up... and suddenly Clare appears (all shounen super hero style) and rescue them... (either way lame for me)

I think the answer to your question on what will happen has alot to do with Raki; either way, I doubt we will see what becomes of the Ghosts until this whole Clare/Priscilla matter is wrapped up, which is what I believe next chapter will be about.

Holy shit, tons of people commented at the same exact time 0_0.

Newhope

2010-11-01, 18:20

I don't know if anyone mention this yet, but the destroyer has the ability to absorb life.

Priscilla must have thought that she could easily escape, so she did not try to avoid been captured by Clare. Once Clare captured her, she immediately attacked Priscilla's mind using soul-link. Priscilla body is been weaken and at the same time she has no control over her body due to soul-link (similar to Clare vs Rafaela).

Thats what I thought the destoryers life leech if the perfect counter to Priscilla's auto-regen maybe cancel each other or weaken her enough to be captured.

By no means am I bashing Miria; I just don't see any reason to assume she is alive, and I'm definitely not going to chalk it up to something cheap and basic as plot-devices or stereotypes when their's just no logic in them. If Miria really is still alive, after everything we saw in fine detail....frankly, the whole story is going down a few notches for appeasing to fans like that, especially after teasing them to the point of going RAAAAGE for two months.

As if killing her off in the totally pointless way like that hasn't already lowered to story a few notches.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 18:21

As if killing her off in the totally pointless way like that hasn't already lowered to story a few notches.

It has, but believe me, bringing her back after all that will only bring it lower -_-

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 18:22

I doubt we will see what becomes of the Ghosts until this whole Clare/Priscilla matter is wrapped up, which is what I believe next chapter will be about.
You don't even imagine how much i hope that you are right on this matter........

As if killing her off in the totally pointless way like that hasn't already lowered to story a few notches.Imo what Miria did made perfect sense so it hasn't ruined the story at all.

Cyclone

2010-11-01, 18:22

Hey Cyclone, if you're around later could you sum up what Dee was saying while she was crying?

I'll look into it when I see a raw - all I've seen is an English scanlation right now.

Interesting chapter... have to let it percolate a bit before commenting.
I wonder what it was that Dae saw though... Prissy did something to him most likely.

Fenrir_valindri

2010-11-01, 18:25

Betray is simply too strong of a word; It's not that Miria didn't trust them, she simply thought she was doing them all a favor. The idea of looking at her like an overbearing parent comes back. It's grossly wrong to say something like that; Miria was so completely stupid for doing what she did, but in the end, she did it for them.

They just don't know any better.

Have you ever heard of the term "I feel betrayed?"

That term applies to this exact situation, it isn't too strong of a word for them, especially when Miria went off to a fight that she (theoretically) couldn't win. Without consulting them, it doesn't matter if it was for "their own good."

Fenrir, I just flat-out disagree.

The whole thing just makes me shake my head; all people have right now is wishful thinking. Relying on stereotype to support your idea is about as basic as you can go.

Give me proof; don't just say that another story did something similar which is why.

We can agree to disagree, but I have been right before, so it isn't an impossibility. Heck, the rules of storytelling are basically the only reason Clare is even alive at this point.

I can give as much proof that Miria is alive as you can she is actually dead. You have a single long-range shot of her being hacked at. They could have removed her limbs and left her alive as much as they could have killed her. As I have already mentioned, the Warriors can take amazing amounts of damage and survive, as shown in previous parts of the story.

I say again; isn't that MiB's words also proof enough? If they had captured her, he would have said something, but the most he said was that the whole thing was "petty" and not important. Sounds to me like the whole thing has been dealt with; hence, she's a goner.

Not, the MiB's words would be the LAST thing I would see as proof enough. Do you think they would go "oh, we almost got wiped out by a single warrior, but don't sweat it, we got it handled."

They aren't exactly going to be eager to relay such information, especially when it is over and done with. Heck, the MiB probably refer to the whole incident with Teresa as "petty."

As for your reasons why you think Miria can be dead; what about Isley, do you think he could still be alive because we also only saw him get cut up? We also heard his final thoughts and, as whole, the whole thing was very very similar to the treatment Miria got. Saying he might be alive is just the same; wishful thinking.

Isley had half his head chewed off and was surrounded by mindless monsters quite intent on EATING him, the Organization's subsequent actions also show that he was dealt with. (Alicia + Beth sent after Riful)

The only followup we have on Miria's defeat is that the Organization decided to attack Rabona. We have no true confirmation of her death other then Galatea saying "she is probably dead," which has only slightly more basis then Deneve's "I don't really believe that."

By no means am I bashing Miria; I just don't see any reason to assume she is alive, and I'm definitely not going to chalk it up to something cheap and basic as plot-devices or stereotypes when their's just no logic in them. If Miria really is still alive, after everything we saw in fine detail....frankly, the whole story is going down a few notches for appeasing to fans like that, especially after teasing them to the point of going RAAAAGE for two months.

I know your not trying to bash Miria, I'm just making a point:

Plot drives a story, and plot-devices are an important part of that.

Many fans already thought the story went down several notches from Miria getting passed the idiot ball a couple of chapters back, myself included. Not to mention one of the weakest asspull (supposed) death scene in the entire series.

You can believe what you want, but we would just get into an endless argument about semantics until the next few chapters finish, and we have confirmation one way or another.

And I don't know if Miria is alive or not, but it is infinitely more likely now with the way the story is going then it was back when Miria's attack ended in failure.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 18:25

I wonder what it was that Dae saw though... Prissy did something to him most likely.

Oh, how so?

I'm interested....I doubt his proximity to such unbelievable powers including Isley has done after him after so long, we would have seen something....but we could be wrong.

I think the Rods are simply making him like a symbiote; essentially becoming a part of him. Makes sense and basically goes the direction we all expected, in which he gets new powers.

Heh, reading your post Fenrir, you sure want to get the last word in; I don't mind, we won't figure out the answer until we see the Ghosts at Staff in the not to distant future.

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 18:28

I hope they aren't following miria into doom like captain ahab's crew.
And in the end clare is the sole survivor.

Fenrir_valindri

2010-11-01, 18:31

Haha, I just enjoy verbal sparring, you should know that by now Shiek :D

Let us Miria fans cling to our life-tube, filled with holes as it is.

Jean Claymore

2010-11-01, 18:33

:twitch:Gee... after having had a nap I see this huge discussion...:heh: about 60 replies in 2hours?

Back in the way, I wonder how Raciella just sucked Priscilla up leaving immobile.

Ryus

2010-11-01, 18:36

Awakened

2010-11-01, 18:36

Isley might have modified Raki's body. The Org guy just took a look at Raki's back and knew immediately what was going on.

Irene

2010-11-01, 18:37

Hmm... Sending them all to the organization...
YAGI, YOU BETTER HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR THIS!

Ryus

2010-11-01, 18:39

Hmm... Sending them all to the organization...
YAGI, YOU BETTER HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR THIS!

:uhoh: You seem to be forgetting about Galatea, Clarice, Miata, and the giant blob. :heh:

Fenrir_valindri

2010-11-01, 18:39

Hmm... Sending them all to the organization...
YAGI, YOU BETTER HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR THIS!

Potentially toppling the Organization, potentially rescuing Raki, potentially rescuing Miria are all good reasons to me. :heh:

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 18:44

Ryus

2010-11-01, 18:50

Since now someone is talking about Raki i'll try to repost this:

IMO Isley has implanted some of his own flash to Raki,this way he would be a bit similar to AFs (only a bit!),so like the AFs he is somewhat immune to the rods....this could also explain how he is able to be super-strong and not be able to feel yoki (AFs can't do this either).

:uhoh: The AFs where only immune to the rods due to the simplistic nature of there desires and mind. In short there minds where already almost completely gone. However Raki's had a full blown human mind, so naturally he would have been turned into a AF if Isley had done that to him ages ago.

If yoma flesh was put into his body it must have been more recently (lets say by Priscilla moments after his infection), unless quantity plays a roll in how your effected by yoma flesh being implanted into ones body (lets not get into this debate too many unknowns). Also we still know AOs can be over taken by the rods (the big ones anyways) so Isley flesh should have offered Raki no protection against the rods.

On top of that Raki's eye weren't silver, which they should have been if her was part yoma. Unless somehow he awakened off panel but couldn't sense yoki himself :eyespin:

DragoZERO

2010-11-01, 18:52

I call a harem ending for Raki! Hell yeah!

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 19:01

Haha, I just enjoy verbal sparring, you should know that by now Shiek

Let us Miria fans cling to our life-tube, filled with holes as it is.

Hehe :p :p :p

Gee... after having had a nap I see this huge discussion... about 60 replies in 2hours?

Back in the way, I wonder how Raciella just sucked Priscilla up leaving immobile.

I have to admit; it's been pretty wild. I've been glued to the website almost all day and haven't been able to tear myself away, and when I do, I find a dozen posts when I get back :O.

I want everyone to take a break though so I can go watch some TV :heh:.

I just hope they don't find Miria's corpse being displayed as a warning to the other warriors of the cost of treason

Oh my god 0_0.....that actually is very very plausible :S.

As for Raki, my idea is the simplest; the rods are merging with him and he's about to get superpowers.

He trained with Isley to become the strongest he could as a human being, the way I preferred; if Isley and/or Priscilla did something to him after seven years, we would have seen it.

He's changing, but because of the Rods, not them. He's about to become the Ghosts newest recruit.

[thousandmaster]

2010-11-01, 19:04

I see the ghost running back to Rabona with their tails between their legs. Like my friend Nizhoni said, I believe Raki is the dragonkin human. ;)

An4rchy99

2010-11-01, 19:05

Since now someone is talking about Raki i'll try to repost this:

IMO Isley has implanted some of his own flash to Raki,this way he would be a bit similar to AFs (only a bit!),so like the AFs he is somewhat immune to the rods....this could also explain how he is able to be super-strong and not be able to feel yoki (AFs can't do this either).

You know, I won't rule out Isley did something to Raki... but I think its also possible Isley was not not only one to do something to Raki. Maybe Isley never did, and it was something Prissy did. As we know she is a hell of a lot more powerful that Isley, and effortlessly can resist the rods.

I agree to Ryus on that, if Isley did something, it should have been energetic, but we all knew Raki was just a great warrior before. The situation changed with the rods, and at that time Prissy happens to be there... Now even when I say this, I don't know what she could have done, like I also don't know how Isley would have the knowledge or the technology to implant his flesh into Raki.

(btw. I am sorry I couldn't help say this, coz I am sure no one will... hehe. for all we know Raki was badly whipped and the scarring was too much so Dae was amused, at the mental torture he went through to become a "real man" and hence his mind was super strong :heh: :heh: :heh: JK)

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 19:06

;3327077']I see the ghost running back to Rabona with their tails between their legs. Like my friend Nizhoni said, I believe Raki is the dragonkin human. ;)

Your friend Clarakiss is delusional, but hilarious as always :p anything can happen I guess :heh:; I do still remember that fake spoiler that said Rubel said Raki was the "Prince of Dragons" :heh::uhoh::eyespin::heh:

Naaah, I don't believe they whipped him Anarchy; if anything, the Rods have stopped them from trying to get too close.

Newhope

2010-11-01, 19:10

I doubt Raki is or has dragonkin inplanted if he was the MIB would be ah s**t they found us rather than thats interesting, most plausible answer is some sort of Yoma/AB implant.

Nixl

2010-11-01, 19:12

Hehe :p :p :p

As for Raki, my idea is the simplest; the rods are merging with him and he's about to get superpowers.

He trained with Isley to become the strongest he could as a human being, the way I preferred; if Isley and/or Priscilla did something to him after seven years, we would have seen it.

He's changing, but because of the Rods, not them. He's about to become the Ghosts newest recruit.

I hope so, the last thing I want is an Alien-esque scene with Claire bursting out of his chest and then Ellen Rippley having to come along.

Jean Claymore

2010-11-01, 19:13

I have to admit; it's been pretty wild. I've been glued to the website almost all day and haven't been able to tear myself away, and when I do, I find a dozen posts when I get back :O.

I want everyone to take a break though so I can go watch some TV :heh:.

Then....... what's up with the original Raciella? Did she just pull out her own limbs Clare and Priscilla merged? That's weird:heh: Since there's no explanation in the story, I have to admit the author's just enforcing the story go on in a way illogical starting from chap 106... (on the time)

Oh my god 0_0.....that actually is very very plausible :S.

As for Raki, my idea is the simplest; the rods are merging with him and he's about to get superpowers.

He trained with Isley to become the strongest he could as a human being, the way I preferred; if Isley and/or Priscilla did something to him after seven years, we would have seen it.

He's changing, but because of the Rods, not them. He's about to become the Ghosts newest recruit.

I have a strange sense Raki could probably become an AB when he's getting superpowers just like the other warriors. We've seen all male warriors from the past had been failed to maintain its yoki control and awakened.

An4rchy99

2010-11-01, 19:16

Shieky, I was kidding, hehe. But seriously, I find it strange to contemplate on Raki being fused with flesh before the incident. The reason is, there was no inclination to believe such. Biggest issue is how would someone fuse the flesh? Would giving AB/AO or Prissy blood count? Maybe before Prissy left, she injected her blood into Raki and giving him immunity to the rods at the same time changing his physiology. And what Dae observed was his blood veins on the back changing and fusing?

He trained with Isley to become the strongest he could as a human being, the way I preferred; if Isley and/or Priscilla did something to him after seven years, we would have seen it.

I really doubt this is the only reason. It was clear that the reason was more than will power. The MiB think so too, and has figured out why (this pretty much tells us it has to be more than will power and training -_- )

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 19:19

Then....... what's up with the original Raciella? Did she just pull out her own limbs Clare and Priscilla merged? That's weird Since there's no explanation in the story, I have to admit the author's just enforcing the story go on in a way illogical starting from chap 106... (on the time)

Wait....you're kind of confusing me Jean; are you asking about what exactly happened to Raciella? like if Claire merged with her or something?

Who knows really; we are definitely going to found out, but for now, it's all up in the air; from what Galatea said, both Claire and Raciella managed to subdue and ensnare Priscilla.

How we are intended to explicitly interpret that, I don't know; we will found out though, make no mistake.

I have a strange sense Raki could probably become an AB when he's getting superpowers just like the other warriors. We've seen all male warriors from the past had been failed to maintain its yoki control and awakened.

For all we know, it could be that too; I think though he's just gonna be another sort of hybrid, except with using the Rods as a source; like a symbiote, they feed off of him in a sense to live on, and in return, they supply him with superpowers.

It's hard to say if Raciella ever did have a Queen-like link with her "subordinates", but since Raciella is "turned off" due to what's going on right now, Raki is definitely not under her control in anyway.

Shieky, I was kidding, hehe. But seriously, I find it strange to contemplate on Raki being fused with flesh before the incident. The reason is, there was no inclination to believe such. Biggest issue is how would someone fuse the flesh? Would giving AB/AO or Prissy blood count? Maybe before Prissy left, she injected her blood into Raki and giving him immunity to the rods at the same time changing his physiology. And what Dae observed was his blood on the back changing and fusing?

Ohh.....err....oops? :heh:

Well, who knows really; perhaps when Raki found out the true nature of who he was travelling with, he may have felt like he needed their power to grow even stronger and some sort of operation may have taken place.

It's all speculation really and the stuff of fanfiction; Raki however, as far as I know, wanted to get as strong as he could by his own power, so he wouldn't have accepted anything from them if their was such a offer, I imagine.

Jean Claymore

2010-11-01, 19:30

Wait....you're kind of confusing me Jean; are you asking about what exactly happened to Raciella? like if Claire merged with her or something?

Who knows really; we are definitely going to found out, but for now, it's all up in the air; from what Galatea said, both Claire and Raciella managed to subdue and ensnare Priscilla.

How we are intended to explicitly interpret that, I don't know; we will found out though, make no mistake.

Well, sorry, just speculating:heh: It's kinda frustrating when you don't get something you expected having waited a month (just like when skipped the fight between the Destroyer and Priscilla).

I think the story's being a bit dragged on right now... there's no much about to talk/conclude but to speculate.

For all we know, it could be that too; I think though he's just gonna be another sort of hybrid, except with using the Rods as a source; like a symbiote, they feed off of him in a sense to live on, and in return, they supply him with superpowers.

It's hard to say if Raciella ever did have a Queen-like link with her "subordinates", but since Raciella is "turned off" due to what's going on right now, Raki is definitely not under her control in anyway.

That'd make sense.... You usually come up with brillant ideas:heh:, but since we don't know exactly what happened to Raciella and how'd the other ghosts rescued Clare/Pricilla, I'd better wait for the next chapter perhaps.:D

MalakTawus

2010-11-01, 19:43

@Ryus

The AFs where only immune to the rods due to the simplistic nature of there desires and mind. In short there minds where already almost completely gone.
And where exactly was said in this manga that the rod's invasion is related to the mind of the host? Maybe i'm wrong but i really don't remember anything like that.

EDIT:Found it.You are right,i didn't remember that Diet had said that.

However Raki's had a full blown human mind, so naturally he would have been turned into a AF if Isley had done that to him ages ago.
How can you say that?
His strong human mind could be exacly what prevented Raki to became a mindless AF,and btw i said that Isley implanted Raki with his flash,but i NEVER said that he used the same process as the AFs (infact i said SIMILAR),maybe what Isley did to Raki was only to enhance his power and not enough to turn him into a AF.
Btw it seems that the worst part during the "trasformation" is the very beginning (Claire said that),and Raki doesn't seem that is suffering atm,so i'd say that it's more belivable that if he had a flash implant,it was done years ago,not now.

@An4rchy99
You know, I won't rule out Isley did something to Raki... but I think its also possible Isley was not not only one to do something to Raki. Maybe Isley never did, and it was something Prissy did. As we know she is a hell of a lot more powerful that Isley, and effortlessly can resist the rods.
Possible,but if i think of how was Prissy at that time i REALLY doubt that she could come up with something like that,even if it's been used Prissy flash,i'm quite sure it was Isley's idea.
If instead you are saying that Prissy did something to save Raki before losing control (after that i doubt she would have helped him),than i agree that this is also a possibility,but still in the end it wouldn't be very different from my theory (unless you think that Prissy did something to Raki that doesn't involve giving him her flash,and tbh atm i can't imagine anything else that Isley or Priscilla could do to Raki that would cause the mibs to react like that,especially since it seems that even low ranking mibs knew immediately Raki's secret,so it's not so strange to think that it's at least similar to something that they know very well....like flash implants.......).
Of course there are a lot of other possibilities,but i think this one has a good probability to be true.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 19:51

That'd make sense.... You usually come up with brillant ideas

Awwww :p :heh: :p

Well, we did get some questions, like everything with Dietrich; you have to admit, it was a pretty solid chapter this month :)

DragoZERO

2010-11-01, 19:55

Awwww :p :heh: :p

Well, we did get some questions, like everything with Dietrich; you have to admit, it was a pretty solid chapter this month :)
It really was. Yagi touched on just about everything that we have been waiting to see and set up the next arc pretty nicely.

I don't like all the crying though...it may just be how he draws it though.

MisterJB

2010-11-01, 20:22

As for Raki, my idea is the simplest; the rods are merging with him and he's about to get superpowers.

He trained with Isley to become the strongest he could as a human being, the way I preferred; if Isley and/or Priscilla did something to him after seven years, we would have seen it.

He's changing, but because of the Rods, not them. He's about to become the Ghosts newest recruit.

What those ninja guys said to Dae-sama was that they had discovered why Raki was able to avoid the infection despite being stabbed. It's obvious by Dae-sama's rection that he too realized what makes Raki special when he saw his back. So, it has to be something that was already there before he was stabbed by the rods.

I'm actually leaning towards Dragonkin myself. It's possible that Isley, a 100 years old Awakened Being, knew about the Mainland and the Great War and did something to Raki. For which reason, I don't know.

Cyclone

2010-11-01, 20:44

Oh, how so?

I'm interested....I doubt his proximity to such unbelievable powers including Isley has done after him after so long, we would have seen something....but we could be wrong.

I think the Rods are simply making him like a symbiote; essentially becoming a part of him. Makes sense and basically goes the direction we all expected, in which he gets new powers.

Simple - Even though, in the past, I had jokingly hypothesized that youki affects the mind, and Raki's shortcomings in that department thus potentially make him almost immune :p, I do believe that Raki's resistance to the rods is something that he's not had for a very long time (i.e. from Isley). I think it's a recent thing and closely related to something Prissy did near the time of her re-awakening. I envision Pricsilla applying some sort of first aid treatment before either needing to awaken or awakening in order to rush off after the destroyer (or awakenig in order to administer treatment).

As for Raki gaining super powers being something "we all" expected... oh please. Don't confuse non-confrontation with consensus. I've always thought the idea as bad, but since I have as little evidence to disprove it as you do to back it up, I find arguing on the subject to be rather pointless and tiresome, and have consequently developed a somewhat laissez faire attitude regarding some of these wilder theories - no matter how vocally they are aspoused.

I forsee:
After our daring damsels rescue the distressed Raki from the stronghold of evil, I fully expect for them to bring him back to that blob. Then I dread that Yagi will treat us to confict mediation class and magically somehow Clare and Priscilla will emerge reborn from that caccoon holding hands and singing Kumbaya (If that happens, then my Claymore stuff is going up onto ebay the next day - cheap). I'm hopeful though that Yagi will think of something better though.

--

On an unrelated note, anyone else think that the detour that Dae took was to unleash the Yoma onto Rabona (or order the unleashing, at least)? Then again, he wasn't aware of Miria's attack on the Org, so it shouldn't be that... hmm... I'm confusing myself again. We'll see I guess...

irvinethearcher

2010-11-01, 21:05

I just hope they don't find Miria's corpse being displayed as a warning to the other warriors of the cost of treason.That would just devastate the warriors (and likely make Tabitha the next victim of Raftela)... speaking of only 2 sensing warriors are heading to org hq Tabitha and Cynthia so both will likely play a major role in the upcoming battle.

The 6 vs #10, the twins, #3 &5, the fodder, and maybe Miria and/or Raki seems like more then they could handle without killing someone that is...
I don't know. If anyone could beat raftela in her own game it is a sensing based claymore. Miria was speed based but her weakest stat was always sensing.
It could be that tabitha will take revenge on raftela. Besides she is the only warrior with a cloak and as long as this stays the way it is raftela can do a shit to her.

Shiek927

2010-11-01, 21:08

What those ninja guys said to Dae-sama was that they had discovered why Raki was able to avoid the infection despite being stabbed. It's obvious by Dae-sama's rection that he too realized what makes Raki special when he saw his back. So, it has to be something that was already there before he was stabbed by the rods.

I don't know MisterJB, I really don't know....time will tell :).

As for Raki gaining super powers being something "we all" expected... oh please. Don't confuse non-confrontation with consensus. I've always thought the idea as bad, but since I have as little evidence to disprove it as you do to back it up, I find arguing on the subject to be rather pointless and tiresome, and have consequently developed a somewhat laissez faire attitude regarding some of these wilder theories - no matter how vocally they are aspoused.

Cyclone....I made it plain that I'm not all that crazy for it either; If I had my way, Raki would go back to being a fully human being like he was before.

Him taking the Rods as a symbiote and getting superpowers seems the simplest, easiest to understand, and most conventional route to take and is certainly the less confusing out of every theory people have put forth. I don't like it, but that seems to be what is happening.

I forsee:
After our daring damsels rescue the distressed Raki from the stronghold of evil, I fully expect for them to bring him back to that blob. Then I dread that Yagi will treat us to confict mediation class and magically somehow Clare and Priscilla will emerge reborn from that caccoon holding hands and singing Kumbaya (If that happens, then my Claymore stuff is going up onto ebay the next day - cheap). I'm hopeful though that Yagi will think of something better though.

I don't think Raki will be responsible for bringing them back, but he will definitely be there when they do come out, and all 3 will finally be together. Galatea has made it plain that nobody is coming out of there until Claire wants too and if she does, Priscilla is coming with her whether she likes it or not.

Cyclone

2010-11-01, 21:38

Cyclone....I made it plain that I'm not all that crazy for it either; If I had my way, Raki would go back to being a fully human being like he was before.

Him taking the Rods as a symbiote and getting superpowers seems the simplest, easiest to understand, and most conventional route to take and is certainly the less confusing out of every theory people have put forth. I don't like it, but that seems to be what is happening.

Fine fine - I will debate it with you.
The more important question that is conveniently ignored in that theory is why must Raki get powers at all? What's the point? Clearly, in terms of the strength, speed, and skill, all the Claymores have him covered (remember: Clare toyed with both Cid and Galk at the same time when she was a real number 47 [pre-half-awakening]).
The only thing that's required of Raki is bravery, kindness, and enough strength to be able to stand on his own two feet and not be mere dead weight. Raki's desired "protecting" of Clare will not happen at sword point fighting some demon that has even the ghosts outmatched, it will be his humanity that will save the day (after the girls take out all the other baddies the old fashioned way).
To this end, Raki turning into some freakish monster that can lay waste to the country-side does not help his character. In this sense, the further he turns from humanity, the less ability he'll have to "protect" Clare. There are other characters in the manga who will do the fighting.
Raki's role is to balance the half-monster Claymores with humanity through a pure heart (much like the main character from Yagi's Angel Densetsu - who incidently was not much of a fighter either [though he did know how to take a hit]).
That's what I think.

And, btw, how is Isley turning Raki into a some freak via some unknown process with seemlingly none of the side effects of becoming a claymore or an AE in order to get powers he does not need, simpler and easier to believe than Priscilla doing something to him to stop/slow the infection? It's not like what happened since the spike attack to when we first see Priscilla is dull and Yagi left it out simply to not bore the audience! He left it out on purpose - something happened at that time. He's hiding something.

Nixl

2010-11-01, 21:43

Cyclone I can understand your points, but I fail to see what is wrong with other people discussing possibilities for the characters, even if they conflict with the opinion of others. We just had a massive Miria character debate in 108. Maybe I am just interpreting your tone all wrong, but it seems strange to label a discussion a "debate" when all it is subjective speculation and character interpretation (see the recent discussion on Dietrich and Miria). What is there to exactly debate? We do not have any information and that is why we speculate to pass the time.

edit: There will be no need to speculate once we have the information, but I would not call it a debate as of yet. The Teresa vs Priscilla madness is definitely a debate since we have already observed it, but not with Raki.

kitten320

2010-11-01, 21:44

Huh? Considering what last page I guess it is right to assume that Miria is still alive?

Fenrir_valindri

2010-11-01, 21:50

Now we should just loop back to page 2 as far as discussions go. :D

Cyclone

2010-11-01, 21:59

SeanQ

2010-11-01, 22:01

Dietrich is a spy! She made up that story, j/k. Anyways, I really don't like the inconsistency with Galatea and her scar...comes and goes...
So, I guess Priscilla got her ass handed to her...

An4rchy99

2010-11-01, 22:08

After our daring damsels rescue the distressed Raki from the stronghold of evil, I fully expect for them to bring him back to that blob. Then I dread that Yagi will treat us to confict mediation class and magically somehow Clare and Priscilla will emerge reborn from that caccoon holding hands and singing Kumbaya (If that happens, then my Claymore stuff is going up onto ebay the next day - cheap). I'm hopeful though that Yagi will think of something better though.

Lol Cyclone. But infact, if they do come out what would the circumstances be? Raki would be there begging for them to kiss and hug? I doubt Prissy would be coming to an end anytime soon. So her dying is out of question for the time being. On the other hand, a mental battle and meeting Teresa > finding the truth, would certainly change her personality. Again I doubt Clare would be any happy about this either. In the end, Raki would be playing a major role in the coming conflict. It’s a conundrum nonetheless and would probably take precedence for this months speculations.

@Shiek

I still think it has to be something done to his body before. Though it is more simple to assume he was gaining some power only now... its hard not to assume there is much more. But like you and Cyclone aslo said, anything from this point on we say would be pure speculation without much basis, and neither can be proven or denied. (btw Shieky isn't my whipped idea even more simple? :heh: :heh: again jk lol)

@Malak

Possible, but if i think of how was Prissy at that time i REALLY doubt that she could come up with something like that,even if it's been used Prissy flash,i'm quite sure it was Isley's idea.
If instead you are saying that Prissy did something to save Raki before losing control (after that i doubt she would have helped him),than i agree that this is also a possibility,but still in the end it wouldn't be very different from my theory (unless you think that Prissy did something to Raki that doesn't involve giving him her flash,and tbh atm i can't imagine anything else that Isley or Priscilla could do to Raki that would cause the mibs to react like that,especially since it seems that even low ranking mibs knew immediately Raki's secret,so it's not so strange to think that it's at least similar to something that they know very well....like flash implants.......).

I mean a quick blood transfusion or such... Not sure if it was intentional or pure instintics... Prissy was very protective of him as far as we have seen.

Btw. It also seems an interesting idea that there to be some Dragon-kin component to it. It could also explain why the MiB recognized what it was. I mean Isley was the first generation of male warriors, so perhaps he was dispatched on the actual battle arena before his demise? He certainly would have been very much aware of the orgs real objectives because of his mere existence of being the first generation. This not only is interesting but also leads to the premise, that after the org has been annihilated, the story for the mainland would be initiated. This sounds a logical path Yagi might decide to follow.

- - -

Another note was on the side stop for Dae. Well, he can’t have dispatched the AB/yoma on Rabona, as he had no prior knowledge of the attack. Instead, what if it had something to do with Rubel… I am quite surprised he was not shown in this episode but consequently Dae happens to do something that was far more important than his presence and overseeing the org. This could have been because he had finally found the wind of Rubel treachery? Another possibility is he might have actually been observing the CtD v Prissy battle from afar and returned after it concluded? The timeline fits. Hehe I am jumping into a lot of speculations here now. But I have a strong feeling that the story is about to get a whole lot more interesting…

Shiryuu

2010-11-01, 22:10

Miria is dead. Raki will be the 7th Galatea is talking about. Dietrich will die too.

Wouldn't it be funny if the org was a bunch of dragonkin experimenting on humans. Raki is half human/half dragon. And everything else in the story was a lie by them.

rafael1932

2010-11-01, 22:16

it seems that clarice got tired of her blonde hair and tinge back to brunnete

SeanQ

2010-11-01, 22:16

Raki has been around Claymores for so long, it upped his immune system and fought off the infection is my theory.

An4rchy99

2010-11-01, 22:18

Raki has been around Claymores for so long, it upped his immune system and fought off the infection is my theory.

with pervertness or manliness? his harem awaits him now. only the gate keepers remain :heh: :heh:

FormerAbyssalone

2010-11-01, 22:28

Well I do look for some of the ghosts 2 die now. Remember Miria didn't kill the shrimp twins and #10 is still around. So the question is who will be the one 2 die?:(

SeanQ

2010-11-01, 22:32

#10 is useless if the ghosts fight as a group. But the twins could probably man handle Tabitha and the other long haired one (forgets name and too lazy to look up) lol

FormerAbyssalone

2010-11-01, 22:35

#10 is useless if the ghosts fight as a group. But the twins could probably man handle Tabitha and the other long haired one (forgets name and too lazy to look up) lol

Well the way the twins are they'll take up a few ghosts. the you have all the other claymores aswell.:eyespin: It will be very easy 2 single out one of the ghosts.:eyebrow:

Ryus

2010-11-01, 22:35

Just speculating here but, you know, the more I think about it the more there seems to be factions developing within the organization...

That MiB isn't telling Dae about what happened or the fate of a traitor and seems to dislike Dae's past history, and Dae seems to think that MiB is either an idiot or hiding something. Also seems odd that Dae had his men guarding Raki as if to keep the other org members out... he clearly couldn't sneak Raki to org hq though so it's no shocker that the other MiB seem to have seen him. The question is will Dae let the other MiB in on whatever he's discovered and planning before he's ready to act.

Whatever the case I see Dae as someone to be watched by Rubel, not for risk of being discovering for who he is but someone who is smart enough to discover about the existence of the partially awakened... but also someone who could "accidentally" set off destroy org hq with his work. He'd also make a great fall guy if Rubel had to "step in". However he'd also be the kinda guy to run off and continue working on his projects if not killed, thus meaning Rubel would have to eliminate him to ensure he'd not continue work on yoma/ABs even once the org has been stopped.

Just random speculation on my part...

Cyclone

2010-11-01, 22:40

Lol Cyclone. But infact, if they do come out what would the circumstances be? Raki would be there begging for them to kiss and hug? I doubt Prissy would be coming to an end anytime soon. So her dying is out of question for the time being. On the other hand, a mental battle and meeting Teresa > finding the truth, would certainly change her personality. Again I doubt Clare would be any happy about this either. In the end, Raki would be playing a major role in the coming conflict. It’s a conundrum nonetheless and would probably take precedence for this months speculations.

As you say, it's a bit early to speculate. Personally, I'm not sure they will both emerge. It's possible that once Raki shows up, Priscilla will calm down, spit Clare out by herself, and then accept the execution she had so richly coming since Teresa offered it. I don't know - too early to tell really since we're skipping a whole arc ahead.

Plus Galatea-sama, Clarice and Miata still have to fit into all this somehow. Too many unknowns.

Another note was on the side stop for Dae. Well, he can’t have dispatched the AB/yoma on Rabona, as he had no prior knowledge of the attack. Instead, what if it had something to do with Rubel… I am quite surprised he was not shown in this episode but consequently Dae happens to do something that was far more important than his presence and overseeing the org. This could have been because he had finally found the wind of Rubel treachery? Another possibility is he might have actually been observing the CtD v Prissy battle from afar and returned after it concluded? The timeline fits. Hehe I am jumping into a lot of speculations here now. But I have a strong feeling that the story is about to get a whole lot more interesting…

Interesting idea. Yes, I suppose the time would fit perfectly.
Now that you mention it, it would make sense for Rimuto himself to order the counter-attack, and he was probably at base.
Now that you mention it though - I am supremely curious about Rubel's ultimate fate....

FormerAbyssalone

2010-11-01, 23:02

Thats what I want 2 know, Where and what was Rubel doing this chapter?:)

I wonder how long it will be before we see what is going on in the blob that is Clare/Priss?:twitch:

I wonder what kind of gain Dae will get from watching the Clare vs Priss battle?:eyebrow:

How much damage will the ghosts cause when they get 2 Hq?:)

An4rchy99

2010-11-01, 23:04

I just realized Rubel was present at the org during the attack... so chances of Dae running into him afterwards are low... but if he did, then its certain not good for Rubel's fate as he normally isn't up to any good. Unless I see that Dae is also actually working for an ulterior motive and is in fact aware of Rubel's true intentions. On the otherhand considering the close vicinity to the event horizon, Dae's cursiousity might have led him to observe the event... But if he did observe he must have also witnessed the aftermath, i.e. he knows that the ghosts took off with what was remaining of the battle. One thing to note is we don't know how long the battle was, and how long it took the ghosts to return to Rabona... so its possible that the time line coincides with Dae's returning and the ghost's battle in Rabona...

As Ryus mentioned, there clearly seems to be an air of disparity between Dae and Rimuto. To me Dae gives off the impression of a mad scientist stereotype. Nonetheless, it is very possible that are factions between MiB and its logical.

FormerAbyssalone

2010-11-01, 23:11

Ryus

2010-11-01, 23:19

How much damage will the ghosts cause when they get 2 Hq?:)

The damage they cause will depend on a so many factors... here's just the few I could think of off the top of my head

A) how seriously they fight and if they're willing to kill or seriously wound warriors
b) How much time the warriors at org HQ have had to heal
C) how much the warriors have learned in that time period
D) the groups strength vs Miria's strength
E) How effective #10 will be now that all the ghosts yoki's are in the open and if the twins can effectively protect her and exploit openings she makes
F) If Miria is alive... then she can be used as a hostage. If this happens will the ghosts be willing to fight and what if the org orders an attack on the ghosts while Miria's neck is on the line. If she's dead how will her death effect the stability of the group and leave them vulnerable to #10's mindfraking
G) If Miria has been turned into something... can the ghosts match her power and that of the rest of the org and if not can Miria be reasoned with, and are the ghosts willing to kill a friend beyond saving
H) If the org notices Helen and Deneve are partially awakened they might hold back trying to capture them alive
I) if one of the other ghosts is willing to awaken some limbs like Clare did for added power and attempt to revert or be reverted later (maybe even willing to sacrifice herself for the others)... what would really be cool is if they attempted a poor mans soul link partial awakening (here me out they may not be twins but if Helen and/or Deneve pulls it off with Cynthia and/or Tabitha holding the soul/mind... then just maybe the partial awakened state of Helen or Deneve can relieve some pressure on the one holding the soul.)
J) Whatever Dae can accomplish in the short time he has before the attack and lets not forget this stop of his... it's possible he's already set something in motion
K) Whatever backup plans Rubel has or ways he can tip the scales in his vested interest
L) The number of single digits at org HQ... they'll likely not be a challenge to Deneve, Helen, Cynthia and maybe Dietrich... but could #7 lets say hold up Yuma or Tabitha
M) Tabitha... will she do something stupid or be manipulated by #10... A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords at dawn... what if she's manipulated and seriously wounds/kills her comrades before they know what hit them.

Nixl

2010-11-01, 23:20

I never said it was wrong - nor did I intend to.
I only saying I choose not to participate in some theories - either because they are far fetched, been done to death, have 0 supporting or contradicting evidence, or in the case of anything related to Raki, have my rep hammered by anonymous Raki-philes (who constantly prove it's not freedom of speech they like, but rather consensus of opinion).
If you enjoy discussing a theory - great - go for it. That's what we're all here for. Discuss away.

Just because I choose not to participate in a discussion of a theory though, doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on it though. Just don't require me to either reply or agree to it by saying that "we all" believe something - for at that point, silence is agreement.

In this case, I disagree with the Super-Raki theory - I don't think it makes much sense for the story. Likewise, I don't believe that the story will move to the mainland. Those are my opinions, and much like the anatomical part some of you seem to think I am, everyone has got one. (And if you don't like my opinion, feel free to ignore it [warning: you'll be wrong :p] - I won't take offense.)

I am not attacking the opinion Cyclone,that is not my problem, but rather your tone seems heavy handed when dealing with just speculation for the sake of fun. For instance,

I only saying I choose not to participate in some theories - either because they are far fetched, been done to death, have 0 supporting or contradicting evidence, or in the case of anything related to Raki

From the beginning it seems you generalize certain posters or theories as wrong or stupid, without really specifying your own information. If this were a debate, yes I could understand that sentiment, but using this tone for speculation? I think it can potentially come off as a little insulting or "you suck", again I am not the offended party, but it does seem to make responding somewhat distasteful.

I am sorry you got negative rep though :( meh I am making too huge of a deal out of this, let's just get back to the chapter, my apologies for bringing this up. Again I welcome opinions, but sometimes I just over-analyze the tone or word choice. That is my problem really, not your's.

Here is one thing I liked about the chapter, I think we received a nice bit of character development from Galatea. Her line that she never believed in god is a nice display of her thought process, especially when seeking refuge in the holy city as if that would be the last place she would ever go. Also it does seem like Galatea separates herself from the ghosts or at least her core interests is in protecting the city. However, I was hoping the lack of scars we saw in the last chapter meant she was healing her eyes slowly, but surely. I kind of want Galatea to return to her old snide self.

An4rchy99

2010-11-01, 23:33

Here is one thing I liked about the chapter, I think we received a nice bit of character development from Galatea. Her line that she never believed in god is a nice display of her thought process, especially when seeking refuge in the holy city as if that would be the last place she would ever go.

Oh the irony when this comes from a nun :heh: :heh: I think she just was saving her self in the most safest way possible, with covers on her. But she do seem to genuinly care for the children and the priests.

@Ryus

To me taking Taby to the field is very risky affair. Not only is she emotionaly unstable and unreliable as things are but also, this in turn gives another advatage for the org to exploit the #10's skills.

Ryus

2010-11-01, 23:45

Oh the irony when this comes from a nun :heh: :heh: I think she just was saving her self in the most safest way possible, with covers on her. But she do seem to genuinly care for the children and the priests.

I think, like Teresa, Galatea wanted to be accepted and loved. So raising orphans for the church as a nun not only kept herself hidden, for a limited time, but also let her get what she secretly desired... acceptance. God had nothing to do with her joining, only the life style of helping others and getting to be with kids.

Maybe she even viewed the charity works as a way to make amends for her deeds while working for the organization all this time. Not saying she brutally murdered anyone, just that she did unknowingly work for evil men whom would kill anyone for keeping power.

Once Agatha entered the picture she was very willing to throw away her life and everything she wanted out of that town in order to save the town that accepted her, knowing they'd likely vilify her after saving them and go as far as burning her corpse, if she died, for what she was. Not only that but she was willing to risk being thrown out totally blind with no way to support herself in the human world ever again... thus she might even have ended up living alone in a cave like Raphaela. However she accepted those risks at a 50/50 odds if every factor went the best possible way and the warriors worked with her to defeat Agatha.

@Ryus

To me taking Taby to the field is very risky affair. Not only is she emotionaly unstable and unreliable as things are but also, this in turn gives another advatage for the org to exploit the #10's skills.

I fully agree and stated such... the problem is how does Deneve stop her from following without repeating Miria's "crimes" against them by not working as a team to the bitter end.

An4rchy99

2010-11-01, 23:53

the problem is how does Deneve stop her from following without repeating Miria's "crimes" against them by not working as a team to the bitter end.

If Deneve thinks she is ready to take up the leader role, this would be a defining moment for her. My speculation or safest bet would be to utilize Taby as the eye and use her to gather intelligence... from there on convince her that, she is not fit for battle, and promise her she (deneve) would take revenge for her, or such...

Ryus

2010-11-02, 00:07

If Deneve thinks she is ready to take up the leader role, this would be a defining moment for her. My speculation or safest bet would be to utilize Taby as the eye and use her to gather intelligence... from there on convince her that, she is not fit for battle, and promise her she (deneve) would take revenge for her, or such...

hmm... problem is I can see lots of "risks" the ghosts are taking. For example Tabitha might not be the only one at risk of being hit by #10. Dietrich too is in emotional turmoil and Deneve herself is a hot head prone to anger.

However lets focus on the attack... they don't all have to go in at once. Now that there is 6 of them they could do many things that Miria alone couldn't. Such as have Dietrich bring in a "captured" Tabitha as a ruse to probe the base under the guise that Dietrich found her snooping outside org hq... then rest of the ghosts attack as if the other ghosts came to rescue Tabitha. Followed by Dietrich and Tabitha striking once the whatever beat Miria is revealed (#10). After all if Tabitha is a "prisoner" than why would #10 use her power on her and not one of the 4 other ghosts "attacking". Of course Dietrich and Tabitha would have other options too, such as hitting the twins, freeing Raki/Miria, or even capturing Rimuto. I can think of dozens of other plans that have a chance or success even with things not going soothly for them and there lack of knowledge of soul linking and #10. After all if the twins could be held off by Miria without yoki then Deneve with yoki should dominate them too.

Gooral

2010-11-02, 00:47

Cyclone

2010-11-02, 01:16

I am not attacking the opinion Cyclone,that is not my problem, but rather your tone seems heavy handed when dealing with just speculation for the sake of fun. For instance,

From the beginning it seems you generalize certain posters or theories as wrong or stupid, without really specifying your own information. If this were a debate, yes I could understand that sentiment, but using this tone for speculation? I think it can potentially come off as a little insulting or "you suck", again I am not the offended party, but it does seem to make responding somewhat distasteful.

I am sorry you got negative rep though :( meh I am making too huge of a deal out of this, let's just get back to the chapter, my apologies for bringing this up. Again I welcome opinions, but sometimes I just over-analyze the tone or word choice. That is my problem really, not your's.

Yeah, I tend to not beat about the bush and call it as I see it. I've always been like that. On the flip side, what I say is exactly what I mean, and any inferances, tone(unless it's oozing sarcasm), and un-said implications, is generally not what I mean.
When I call a theory "far-fetched", I mean that to me it sounds implausible because of too many things happening which I deem way too unlikely. I don't mean: a) it's impossible, b) the theory is stupid, c) that I am condemning anyone taking part in the discussion of the theory, nor d) that the person making theory is an idiot. If I meant any of those things, I'd just rather say them and leave no doubt. So please don't read too much between the lines in my posts.

I've been following this forum since, what, chapter 78? and discussing Claymore for even longer. In that time, I've seen a lot of theories that run the gamut. There have been a lot of great theories pitched out there - that's why I'm still here - but there have also been others that were nowhere near as good. My preference is simply to discuss the good ones.
I have also seen some good topics - like Priscilla vs. Teresa - discussed really well with really great arguments, but saddly discussed ad nausium. There is only so many times one cares to repeat oneself, so discussions like those is probably best left to those who have still not yet got their fill of them.
Still others are unarguable - these are sometimes fun, but have the feel of fan fiction. A good theory requires not for the events it predicts to simply be possible, but rather show that something is likely to occur based on logical inferances from usually minor and overlooked facts. In a good theory, one can discuss alternate explanations of the facts and/or chime in with more evidence - either supporting or contrary. There's nothing really to discuss in a theory that amounts to someone's fanfiction.

I don't mean to be condescending to anyone. There are theories however that I simply don't care to discuss for any of a number of reasons. If my lack of enthusiasm or anything like that seeps through to into inbetween the lines of my posts, it's not for the purpose to insult or injure anyone - it's simply a reflection of what I feel at the moment. It's not directed at the person I'm responding to, but rather a reflection of me and my state of mind during writing. I mean no offense.

FormerAbyssalone

2010-11-02, 01:17

Just a quick comment before I go out. Now that I think about it it's obvious that Raki has something strange on his back, something that Dae and MiB can easily recognize. So I wouldn't rule the DoDs yet. I have no idea what it is but I'm sure it's visible on his back.

Agreed, Dae knew as soon as he saw Raki's back!:)

@Ryus: I wonder if anyone thought about this... What if Miria pulls a Griffith. She is kept alive but while she is sitting there waiting for whatever things the org is planning 2 do. What if she becomes mentally broken and fully awakens? She would accomplish her goal and at the sametime become a villian.:uhoh: That could be a very good twist in it all.:D

Cyclone

2010-11-02, 01:23

Agreed, Dae knew as soon as he saw Raki's back!:)

@Ryus: I wonder if anyone thought about this... What if Miria pulls a Griffith. She is kept alive but while she is sitting there waiting for whatever things the org is planning 2 do. What if she becomes mentally broken and fully awakens? She would accomplish her goal and at the sametime become a villian.:uhoh: That could be a very good twist in it all.:D

You think she'd go as far as raping Raki? :p

FormerAbyssalone

2010-11-02, 01:51

You think she'd go as far as raping Raki? :p

Well Clare would have 2 be there for that 2 work!;)

Verkruk

2010-11-02, 02:18

Gooral

2010-11-02, 02:26

We really need a FAQ/information glossary on this forum. We will have new chapter in December (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=3326668&highlight=december#post3326668) (unless there will be some catastrophe).

Ryus

2010-11-02, 02:29

Lame imo.

Blob meet babe.
Babe meet blob.
Ok now lets leave the blob.

Stop two morons from hurting each other.
Join said morons on a moronic quest.

Was nice to see how spot on myself and others were about Detrich and her past.
And sadly how spot on some were about it being all talk... and now we have to wait until January. Wonderful.

January issue not January. Ch 109 came out in the December issue so the January issue will be out early December so just a month away and not two like you think. For future reference magazines run an issue ahead, meaning the month of the issue is typically the date it leaves stores, not arrives in stores.

& you left out Raki mystery solved but won't be revealed to use until later. :rolleyes: Likely they'll have figured out where his shirt is by then too. :p

sonotme_9FedriqSama

2010-11-02, 03:13

Speaking of the spikes...

In ch 96 one of the spikes is sticking through his arm and out the other side (seen to our right of his abs)

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/LordRyus/CLAYMORE096_08color.jpg

But in the spoiler pic neither rod is... and it's migrated up his arm to his shoulder and one of the rods is now on the back side of his arm :heh::eyespin::heh:

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/LordRyus/b98fb4cbc2a6104a93457e79.jpg

Or they could be merging with him, seeing how his bleeding vanished...

----after reading the chapter I was right that that clump cotains Priscilla immobilized by clare...

I read the RAW and scanlation by MStream.....and I always wonder about this.....why do translators and editors always mess with Riful's name or gender....they either write her as "RIFL" or by pronoun HIM or HIMSELF..... Don't they read the manga.....or can't they figure out by the name itself that it is female name? or they must really hate Riful :heh: ....some funny editors they are.....

Anyways.... good chapter....seeing Dee cry was very nice.....:heh:

want to see what will happen to clare....

An4rchy99

2010-11-02, 04:05

hmm... problem is I can see lots of "risks" the ghosts are taking. For example Tabitha might not be the only one at risk of being hit by #10. Dietrich too is in emotional turmoil and Deneve herself is a hot head prone to anger.

However lets focus on the attack... they don't all have to go in at once. Now that there is 6 of them they could do many things that Miria alone couldn't. Such as have Dietrich bring in a "captured" Tabitha as a ruse to probe the base under the guise that Dietrich found her snooping outside org hq... then rest of the ghosts attack as if the other ghosts came to rescue Tabitha. Followed by Dietrich and Tabitha striking once the whatever beat Miria is revealed (#10). After all if Tabitha is a "prisoner" than why would #10 use her power on her and not one of the 4 other ghosts "attacking". Of course Dietrich and Tabitha would have other options too, such as hitting the twins, freeing Raki/Miria, or even capturing Rimuto. I can think of dozens of other plans that have a chance or success even with things not going soothly for them and there lack of knowledge of soul linking and #10. After all if the twins could be held off by Miria without yoki then Deneve with yoki should dominate them too.

You know theoretically they got enough battle potential and skills to decimate the org purely power based. However practically I see them having problems. I would go so far as to say they have a high probability of failing simply due to the hot headed (Undine loving) leader they have now. Deneve is just too impulsive as was demonstrated by her innate ability to disobey Miria by helping Dee and also by being naive and foolish enough assumption they could have a chat with Isley :uhoh:. Clearly they are headed for doom. I won't say complete failure but we are certainly going to have a few deaths this time. I was really hoping Gala would lend them some assistance, at least in terms of advice and battle tactics before they left... but it seems Gala is neither too helpful nor have faith in them succeeding (as noted due to her unfaithful prayer :p)

stereotypes:

Deneve: hot headed / emotional wreck. :frustrated:
Helen: loose tongued / hilarious bafoon. :naughty:
Cynthia: suicidal maniac. :help:
Tabitha: Miria's shadow and unrequited love. :bow:
Yuma: Insecure and lacks a sense of humour. :sad:

My apologies for the crude classification of the chars... lol... :heh: :heh:

irvinethearcher

2010-11-02, 06:07

Ulquihorror

2010-11-02, 07:04

a crazy idea: he is holding priscilla's humanity

Shiek927

2010-11-02, 07:08

Fine fine - I will debate it with you.
The more important question that is conveniently ignored in that theory is why must Raki get powers at all? What's the point? Clearly, in terms of the strength, speed, and skill, all the Claymores have him covered (remember: Clare toyed with both Cid and Galk at the same time when she was a real number 47 [pre-half-awakening]).
The only thing that's required of Raki is bravery, kindness, and enough strength to be able to stand on his own two feet and not be mere dead weight. Raki's desired "protecting" of Clare will not happen at sword point fighting some demon that has even the ghosts outmatched, it will be his humanity that will save the day (after the girls take out all the other baddies the old fashioned way).

Wait wait, I wasn't asking you to debate it with me, I was just trying to explain that I wasn't crazy for the idea either :heh:

However, it just seems to me what appears to be inevitable.

Why must he have those powers? Frankly, I don't know; perhaps out of some simple desire to see him finally use powers that put him on par, or above, the characters right now so he's not, as you say, dead-weight. While everything you say regarding his humanity is true, as it's his benevolence that is his greatest gift, granting him these superhuman abilities does at last grant him the power to protect Claire from just about any threat, which has always been his greatest goal and wish.

And, btw, how is Isley turning Raki into a some freak via some unknown process with seemlingly none of the side effects of becoming a claymore or an AE in order to get powers he does not need, simpler and easier to believe than Priscilla doing something to him to stop/slow the infection? It's not like what happened since the spike attack to when we first see Priscilla is dull and Yagi left it out simply to not bore the audience! He left it out on purpose - something happened at that time. He's hiding something.

Because Cyclone, all it is, is just speculation, pure speculation; it's even less plausible then the Rods simply not taking over him. We saw plainly from when he fought that Yoma in this hometown that he was nothing more then a prime human being; he showed no traits that were superhuman or anything that made us believe he was anything but the story's own Captain America.

I also already explained that Raki wouldn't willfully accept any such transformation because he wants to get the power he needs to protect Claire on his own; he doesn't want to take any easy way out. Isley wouldn't also dare try anything on the boy without him being aware of because, as we saw, he grew to love the boy Number 1, and Number 2, if anything went wrong, Priscilla would have his head.

If their is a specific reason why we haven't seen any flashback arcs to the seven years they had together, I'm all for it because I've been dying to see that since we first saw Raki seven years later; but I think it's simply because Yagi has not unfortunately done that yet rather then their's a specific plot-point reason. Still, time will answer that question for us I suppose.

In a way, I wonder if it doesn't really matter if Raki secretly has DoD stuff in him or whatever people believe; I truly believe him getting new superpowers is right around the corner....if not....then him ending up in this situation just feels like one gigantic detour to his quest of finding Claire.

a crazy idea: he is holding priscilla's humanity

That doesn't even make any sense; Priscilla is holding onto her own humanity as we saw when she protected Raki more then once in her regressed form; she finally could hold on no longer and her Awakened persona emerged and began to ate everyone but him.

She still has her humanity which cannot be totally put down, but it's gonna take another strong trigger to bring it back up again.

---

It's an interesting thing to say Ryus, how it seems like their is factions growing within the Organization; I kind of got that impression as well. More and more, everyone seems to have their goals and interests in mind.

That could very well be Rubel's doing for all we know.

---

Roflmao Anarachy, I love the emocons you posted for the characters :heh:

---

You got a negative rep Cyclone? again? :heh:.

Sorry to hear that; I have long since been used to your Deneve-style blunt way of posting your ideas and feelings on matters, but I guess not everyone is yet :heh:.

---

Roflmao, Sonotome, those editors just don't care for the story really; reading such obvious stupid mistakes just makes me cringe; they wrote down "Abysmal One" for crying out loud, how do you make that mistake? :eyespin:

Shrimpy doesn't translate like he used to, so Gernot really is the primary guy for this story now; he seems to be the only one who genually tries his best and reads the story, rather then rushes it so he can move onto to translate something else as if he is trying to make a record for most number of translations or something :heh::heh::heh: