View Full Version : Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha The MOVIE 2nd A's, Expectations and Speculation
MeoTwister5
2012-02-24, 03:56
I'd assume removing the Leize twins means that Graham will have a smaller, if not retconned, presence allowing the movie to focus more on the Book and the Wolkenritter's pasts. I did actually find them to be a very intriguing bunch, sadly neither A's nor StrikerS allowed much focus on them.
Thing is, as I stated somewhere in this thread somewhere, removing the twins and minimizing Graham in the plot allows some possibility of retcons that could potentially alter if not screw up the storyline.
Akiyoshi
2012-02-24, 04:27
I wonder how deep the changes will be since Graham's operations have a lot to do with the developement of the events in A's. As much of what happened was orchestated by him in order to execute his plan to get rid of The Book of Darkness.
green-link94
2012-02-24, 06:04
Here is that signum teaser trailer you wanted Aki.
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Just noticed at the end where Signum and Fate's attacks meet the the shockwave shatters the windows. :cool:
Akiyoshi
2012-02-24, 11:11
^ Awesome! Thanks man xD!
Laevatein has now more fiction-realistic explosions xD! As i tought, this movie will be filled with eye candy xD
Yep... lots of eye candy and fanservice (I meant the fights, not the loli transformation XD) for the eyes.
And Akiyoshi's dream has come trueee~
Maybe we'll get a better transformation sequence for Hayate
*shot*
Archon_Wing
2012-02-25, 01:22
Instead of all these little bits they should really put it as an actual trailer. :S
Akiyoshi
2012-02-25, 01:54
Maybe we'll get a better transformation sequence for Hayate
*shot*
I think the one she got in A's was pretty epic xD! At least far more flashy than the Wolkenritter ones.
Talking about that, the Wolks transformation sequences had always been cheaper than other characters, hope this time they are shown in an asskicking secuence xD!
Instead of all these little bits they should really put it as an actual trailer. :S
Commercials on Japanese TV (as was explained to me) are only 15 seconds instead of 30 seconds in the US, so they tend to be very short.
Akiyoshi - Yes, but nowhere as long as Nanoha's or Fate's :( (Maybe Zafira will get a cool sequence too :P )
I'd assume removing the Leize twins means that Graham will have a smaller, if not retconned, presence allowing the movie to focus more on the Book and the Wolkenritter's pasts. I did actually find them to be a very intriguing bunch, sadly neither A's nor StrikerS allowed much focus on them.
Thing is, as I stated somewhere in this thread somewhere, removing the twins and minimizing Graham in the plot allows some possibility of retcons that could potentially alter if not screw up the storyline.
You can leave out the possibility in that line. Without the Lieze twins, Chrono would have captured Shamal. Without the Lieze twins, Nanoha would have defeated Vita. Without the Lieze twins, the fight between Signum and Fate would not have halted. Without the Lieze twins, Nanoha and Fate might have negotiated with the Wolkenritter succesfully. Without the Lieze twins, Hayate might never have awoken.
The impact of removing them is quite severe, and I'm interested in how this will change the story. It'll make it much more fun to watch than it would have been if it was merely a high-quality rerun of A's.
MeoTwister5
2012-02-25, 07:36
Which means a major retcon is in the works. This may as well be considered a completely different story then, if not some alternate continuity.
Yeah that sounds about right. The movies always were considered alternate continuity by Tsuzuki.
http://www.nanoha.com/index.html
14 July 2012 theatrical relase date comfirmed:)
And a new trailer added:p
Takamura Mamoru
2012-02-25, 10:12
Vita's "Akuma!" is in it, Signum preparing to fight Fate too, nice.
And transformations! :)
Akiyoshi
2012-02-25, 11:21
Vita's "Akuma!" is in it, Signum preparing to fight Fate too, nice.
And transformations! :)
GAAAHHH!! I'm at school, i'll need to wait until being on home to watch it! Tranformatiooons xD!
You can leave out the possibility in that line. Without the Lieze twins, Chrono would have captured Shamal. Without the Lieze twins, Nanoha would might defeated Vita. Without the Lieze twins, the fight between Signum and Fate would not have halted. Without the Lieze twins, Nanoha and Fate might have negotiated with the Wolkenritter succesfully. Without the Lieze twins, Hayate might never have awoken.
Fixed. Even if Vita were hit by Divine Buster extension i doubt the fight would have ended at that moment since both Signum(Blaster-1 Shooting Stars Assault ...pointblank) and Vita(back to front impalement and arguably blasted in all directions by the engine room's security system) managed to withstand a lot worse stuff during StrikerS where they're far less durable than their A's counterparts. I won't deny, tough, that it will give Nanoha a great advantage and morelikely she'll do defeat Vita after a long fight.
Lycodrake
2012-02-25, 14:22
*opens mouth to comment on the trailers and other released info*...*closes mouth*
Yeah, doubt anyone wants to hear what I have to say. Already mentioned it, and the reaction wasn't encouraging.
Not all that surprising that they'd leave out the twins, though. At least I don't think so.
lol Nanoha has accepted her role as a demon XD
They sure love reshowing scenes with these trailers. Only new content apart from this one and the previous one...Was a bit more Hayate, and a few tiny little scenes thrown inbetween.
New transformation sequence for Nanoha and Fate confirmed, but none for Hayate :(
Get out the pitchforks D:
Were they not confirmed back when the first trailer released?:uhoh:
Honestly, as much as I like Henshin sequences, they should almost just do away with them considering how tight on time they are. Although Nanoha and Fate kinda do need one to compliment their upgraded devices and new barrier jackets. So that was inevitable.
Theyd add them once... Which means at least a 6 minute concentration on Henshin sequences.
Lycodrake
2012-02-25, 16:54
Theyd add them once... Which means at least a 6 minute concentration on Henshin sequences.
Well, considering that Henshin sequences are a staple for the Mahou Shoujo genre...it's not all that surprising that they'd focus on it, especially when they're able to showcase the changes and details.
...still no sign of Yuuno showing up except *that one poster*. Big surprise. Not. =.=;;;
I do like how they did the Wolkies' sequences in StrikerS. Very short, but awesome. Given the shorter movie format, is it really necessary to spend 3-4 minutes just on those?
Lycodrake
2012-02-25, 17:54
I do like how they did the Wolkies' sequences in StrikerS. Very short, but awesome. Given the shorter movie format, is it really necessary to spend 3-4 minutes just on those?
Considering the number of characters that they're cutting out entirely for it all, it might be. ^^;;;
Isn't the "masked men" the only characters confirmed to be cut out entirely? The Lieze twins may still appear, just not as the masked men.
Rising Dragon
2012-02-25, 18:03
No, they specifically mentioned the Lieze twins, IIRC.
itanshi1
2012-02-25, 19:01
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2012-02-25/2nd-magical-girl-lyrical-nanoha-film-teaser-streamed
teaser out
Akiyoshi
2012-02-25, 19:23
I do like how they did the Wolkies' sequences in StrikerS. Very short, but awesome. Given the shorter movie format, is it really necessary to spend 3-4 minutes just on those?
They were too simplistic to my tastes and certainly had less quality the the ones for the Aces and Forwards(Vita and Rein's unison sequence had slightly better animation, tough). I don't mind them being short but i think that the wolks at least deserve some good quality henshin sequences xDU.
Still teaser looks good(even if no sign of Wolk Henshin sequences are given T-T). And most importantly we finally have a release date xD!
It'll be on July 14 xD! (a month and a half after the W-Day)
They were too simplistic to my tastes and certainly had less quality the the ones for the Aces and Forwards(Vita and Rein's unison sequence had slightly better animation, tough). I don't mind them being short but i think that the wolks at least deserve some good quality henshin sequences xDU.
Still teaser looks good(even if no sign of Wolk Henshin sequences are given T-T). And most importantly we finally have a release date xD!
It'll be on July 14 xD! (a month and a half after the W-Day)
Yes I believe they should... but I think they should make the transformation in a split screen to save time XD
Were they not confirmed back when the first trailer released?:uhoh:
Honestly, as much as I like Henshin sequences, they should almost just do away with them considering how tight on time they are. Although Nanoha and Fate kinda do need one to compliment their upgraded devices and new barrier jackets. So that was inevitable.
The complaint is more that Hayate never had a proper henshin sequence, which many consider to be one more shaft. So a proper henshin sequence is something her fans want to see for more reasons than just the fanservice.
Yes.... just as the fans say:
Chrono: If you do your transformation scene properly, I'll give a three rank increase (overlook it).
Hayate: Keep spouting those lines and I'll tell Amy-san ^^
Tempester
2012-02-25, 23:09
Youtube trailer:
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itanshi1
2012-02-25, 23:27
hehe that was in thr article i linked ^^
Akiyoshi
2012-02-26, 02:11
The complaint is more that Hayate never had a proper henshin sequence, which many consider to be one more shaft. So a proper henshin sequence is something her fans want to see for more reasons than just the fanservice.
The point is that Hayate do have a pretty epic transformation sequence at the climax of A's. Sadly that was her only henshin sequence in the entire franchise to date, so yeah. I'm expecting a big badass henshin sequence for Hayate-chan in the MOVIE 2nd xD
I just pray that it's slightly longer (2 hours 30 minutes XD).
The problem is Strikers (in the case it's made into a movie): How to tell the past/story of 20+ characters XD.
This time.... I want them to shorten the transformation scenes of Nanoha and Fate in favor of the Wolkenritter XD.
FlareKnight
2012-03-31, 05:10
I just pray that it's slightly longer (2 hours 30 minutes XD).
The problem is Strikers (in the case it's made into a movie): How to tell the past/story of 20+ characters XD.
This time.... I want them to shorten the transformation scenes of Nanoha and Fate in favor of the Wolkenritter XD.Would be nice to have a bit more length if only to have more movie to enjoy :heh:.
Do think it'd be pretty hard to pull of StrikerS in a movie. Thought they had enough time issues as it was (had to shaft Lightning squad).
According to this blogger: http://ivory.ap.teacup.com/nagaharuhenyo2/2478.html
The Nanoha A's movie will be more than 2 and a half hrs long.
Akiyoshi
2012-04-02, 16:06
^ When those news were released? Remember we've recently passed April's Fool xD
It was during a huge anime convention. Yeah, the convention took place during April 1st but I doubt they'd have April fools there. And it's kinda of a silly thing to joke about since the original Nanoha movie was already 2hrs and 10minutes long.
Yay xD my wish came true (10 minutes for credit and OP I guess... Or scenes of Nanoha and fate as the opening comes).
Akiyoshi
2012-04-02, 17:52
I'm still very curious to see how they'll pack all of A's in a two and a half hour movie. Seems that they'll speed up things to make the plot work, the absence of the Lieze Twins makes more sense now. I wonder if this will mean the Wolks will be more agressive or villanous?
They said more than 2.5 hours... I guess most will concentrate on Wolk... And Reinforce...
Hopefully she stays for a Battle of Aces/Gears of Destiny movie to work.
DisarestaX
2012-04-02, 22:17
Still have to wait for DVD/Blu ray... by the time we can see it, it would be 2013 already... :uhoh:
Archon_Wing
2012-04-05, 04:48
2 1/2 hours? That's almost as long as Haruhi. :heh:
Gives them more room to work with though; more power to them.
Well they'd add the transformation scenes too...
Akiyoshi
2012-04-05, 12:18
Well they'd add the transformation scenes too...
Stop teasing me xD
*crossing fingers for a decent transformation sequence for the Wolkenritter*
Stop teasing me xD
*crossing fingers for a decent transformation sequence for the Wolkenritter*
I think they should forget Nanoha and Fates transformation... They already transformed a lot
Akiyoshi
2012-04-05, 13:05
I think they should forget Nanoha and Fates transformation... They already transformed a lot
Mecha fans and Fate fans wouldn't allow that ...NEVER xD!
Considering part of A's is Nanoha and Fate being defeated because of their outdated devices, and then they come back with a vengeance with their upgraded devices and barrier jackets...Their henshin is all but assured.
I never thought of the wolkenritter as magical girls, so....Hayate should have a good henshin, though.
SPARTAN 119
2012-04-05, 13:19
Still have to wait for DVD/Blu ray... by the time we can see it, it would be 2013 already... :uhoh:
Not necessarily, when I saw the Haruhi movie, some fansubber had actually subbed a camrip. If you mean see it in the quality it was meant to be seen though....
Akiyoshi
2012-04-05, 13:20
I never thought of the wolkenritter as magical girls
That's because they're Magical Knights, equally deserving of a kickass henshin sequence xD
or will they all transform in the final battle to kick ass? XD
I shall eat Nanoha A's thrice. One with camrip, one with Blu-Ray rip and one with Blu-Ray in glory.
Akiyoshi
2012-04-05, 13:50
I usually try to avoid CamRip like the plague but since this is the Wolkenritter on their glory days who were talking about i think i'll succumb to the temptation xD
DisarestaX
2012-04-06, 06:50
Not necessarily, when I saw the Haruhi movie, some fansubber had actually subbed a camrip. If you mean see it in the quality it was meant to be seen though....
If we can even get to see the camrip... yeah sure :heh:
Getting the first movie's camrip was a trial, don't count on the second having one.
Rising Dragon
2012-04-07, 20:43
I was able to wait for the DVD rip of the first movie. I can wait for the second one.
It's actually going to come out on my birthday! lol Too bad I can't see it. :/
Akiyoshi
2012-04-08, 15:59
It's actually going to come out on my birthday! lol Too bad I can't see it. :/
Lol xD! Now you have one more thing to be proud of during your birthday xD
If I had gone with only one major in my studies I could be in Japan by the time while its in the theaters (like with MOVIE 1st)
: (
green-link94
2012-04-13, 06:30
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poor Shamal :heh:
PK4NAqhYzOc
Takamura Mamoru
2012-04-13, 07:31
Zafira saying "Lyrical Magical" LOL
Zafira saying "Lyrical Magical" LOL
Exactly my thoughts. Bonus points for having Zafira teasing/joking.
green-link forgot to post one -
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Even Fate is being gundamified (laugh)
Akiyoshi
2012-04-16, 01:31
poor Shamal :heh:
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LOL! Since when Signum and Zafira allied to troll her xD?
Elle_White
2012-04-16, 04:52
Would anyone be able to translate the teaser trailers? I've been desperately wanting to know what they're saying, particularly in the Lindy and Arf one.
green-link94
2012-04-20, 06:18
Materials yay.:eyespin::D
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Tiresias
2012-04-20, 06:30
Wait what, seriously? Materials? That's not from the game?
Wait what, seriously? Materials? That's not from the game?
It's from the movie, but it's not like they actually show the materials, they were just the dialogue of the commercial/trailer.
The movie would be better if it was about the events of the game.
ZeroIchiNi
2012-04-20, 08:32
Please tell me the Materials are complaining about not being in this movie.
Sure sounds like it. Levi sounds bored and disappointed after the buzz.
Akiyoshi
2012-04-20, 10:24
The movie would be better if it was about the events of the game.
Too much story to cramp into a single movie(The Materials/U-D Plot, The Florian Sisters story, Reinforce Plot, the Wolks/Lieze Twins plot, Precia/Linith chapter, the time travelers, etc...) , the Gears of Destiny deserve at least a 6 Ep ova series(a half-season anime would be good if they also include the Battle of Aces plot xD).
Please tell me the Materials are complaining about not being in this movie.
Sure sounds like it. Levi sounds bored and disappointed after the buzz.
Something like this. Levi asks if they are in the movie and Stern says that nope only Nanoha and the others.
Levi: Boo.
Me: Not in the second movie?!
Takamura Mamoru
2012-04-20, 18:56
Materials yay.:eyespin::D
Nmz0nHeEGgI
THOSE VOICES, TOO MUCH :hyper-^v^:
Please tell me the Materials are complaining about not being in this movie.
Sure sounds like it. Levi sounds bored and disappointed after the buzz.
No,Levi is not complaining about it.
Dearche:hahahah,this TVCM hijacked by us.
Levi:yeah,what should we do in this 30 seconds?
Stern:Stop.
SFX: (buzzer)
Stern:This is a TVCM for Nanoha's movie.we should advertise the movie.
Levi:Eh,well Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha The MOVIE 2nd A's
No,Levi is not complaining about it.
Dearche:hahahah,this TVCM hijacked by us.
Levi:yeah,what should we do in this 30 seconds?
Stern:Stop.
SFX: (buzzer)
Stern:This is a TVCM for Nanoha's movie.we should advertise the movie.
Levi:Eh,well Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha The MOVIE 2nd A's
Dearche, if you hijack the movie, you will be my most favorite Material ever.
Hijack the movie, Materials.
Akiyoshi
2012-04-20, 22:54
Hijack the movie, Materials.
Only if Yuri is with them, otherwise, Full Reinforce will have a word with them xD
Nah. Dearche would convince Reinforce that if they hijack the movie, Rein would get to spend more time with her Mistress.
Thus Reinforce relented and let them do it.
Akiyoshi
2012-04-21, 00:29
Nah. Dearche would convince Reinforce that if they hijack the movie, Rein would get to spend more time with her Mistress.
Thus Reinforce relented and let them do it.
Isn't Dearche suppossed to have a grudge against Reinforce and Hayate xD?
She always seem like the attention hogging type to me, so I doubt she pass up the chance to do that.
green-link94
2012-04-21, 14:44
Seems like the character page on the official site has been updated.
http://www.nanoha.com/character.html
DisarestaX
2012-04-21, 19:02
Went to rewatch last part of A's again. Realised tat brave pheonix is actually quite a nice song.
Hope we get more nice song frm the movie 2nd like the movie 1st :D
Archon_Wing
2012-04-24, 02:57
Mm, nice teasers actually. :)
I have to admit I've been feeling a bit anxious for this movie. I'm sure it'll be entertaining as movie 1st at a minimum just with the looks. The first movie was a bit disappointing because they had to compress some details but came across to what I would reimagine season 1 as so I was happy with it and gave a sense of nostalgia over what I liked about that series.
That being said, I've really not enjoyed the main series since A's too much. StrikerS was fun in some parts, but in the end it was mainly for the existing characters. Not saying the new introduced characters were that bad, but I didn't feel they were on the same level. And that, with the later mangas just took the series in a direction in which I really had no interest in.
So these movies will prove to be a great distraction. I feel like I have too much expectations for this movie, as A's is the pinnacle of the series and I wouldn't know how to compress it into a movie and make it better. My feeling is this will be my last dealing with this franchise for a long time, but at least it will remind me of why I loved watching this in the first place and perhaps put my gripes to peace. There's always the promise that they'll make a dedicated effort to continue the story in a new direction (maybe the in-between A's and StrikerS timelines) One can always hope.
Akiyoshi
2012-04-24, 12:24
Nice toughts Archon, A's was also the climax of the frnchise for me, StrikerS had it's very awesome moments and it was a fun ride in the end but also had more "details" to pick on than the previous season and most of my awe was for the developement of the A's cast anyway. Still i found some memorable characters(Subaru, Zest, Agito) and others who grew on me over time(Teana, Vice, Carim, Schach, Lutecia, etc...). The new mangas has been difficult to swallow for me, specially FORCE which attacked most of what i found awesome in A's directly xDU
My feelings for the incoming movie had been mixed, i'm eager to see it to watch the Wolkenritter being awesome again and seeing them fight in high-budget flashy battles, but story wise i'm a bit worried, since they now have this "StrikerS-like" approach. I like StrikerS but i feel each season have it's own style and should remain that way. A's was more about epic fantasy and one-on-one duels with just few elements of military scy-fi thrown into the mix, the concept of Ancient Belka was still fresh by that point and the Wolkenritter were involved in an aura of mistery ....the same as Fate and the Jewel Seeds on Season 1. Which is a direct contras with Jail and the numbers whe were presented as a very modern(even futuristic) terrorist group with ambush tactics, tactical teamwork support and the like, also the setting is totally different(The technomagically advanced Mid-Childa in contrast with the very normal and magic ignorant city of Uminari, Japan).
I'm trying to see the positive and don't make huge expectations, MOVIE 1st worked for me cause i saw that as a complement for the original Season One si i'll try this approach with MOVIE 2nd A's to avoid direct comparission since the original A's have a special place in my heart which cannot be replaced by a mere higher budget and flashy stuff, i'll wait for the story the different story the movie will try to tell me.
P.S.- Preparing mentally for Signum's defeat at the hands of Fate since i know executive won't allow Fate to "lose" in this movie xDU.
The official site updated.
http://www.nanoha.com/index.html
Top page:a new trailer(Anime Contents Expo 2012 version) added.
News page:a report about Anime Contents Expo 2012 seiyu event added.
The official site updated.
http://www.nanoha.com/index.html
Top page:a new trailer(Anime Contents Expo 2012 version) added.
News page:a report about Anime Contents Expo 2012 seiyu event added.
Oh my god. Did my eyes deceived me?
Mama Lindy gets to fight? With Durandal???? OMG!!
Tiresias
2012-04-25, 10:00
The good: a new footage of Lindy crying when Clyde died. Also, what ranran said above.
The bad: Surprise surprise, despite them saying that some plot points must sadly be removed due to time constraints, the time-wasting slow-mo nekkid loli transformation scenes are still present.:eyebrow: Ah yup, great priority, Tsuzuki. *sigh*
Yeah brah, dem nekkid transformations have been around since the first movie a's trailer.:heh:
Archon_Wing
2012-04-25, 11:24
At least, Nanoha A's and beyond changed the transformation to be one time only per form to not waste your time. Usually they just do the instant transformation.
Just no pedo Movie 1st ones and it is fine. And for some reason Nanoha is a victim of that, Fate doesn't get that crap.
Akiyoshi
2012-04-25, 11:27
Oh my god. Did my eyes deceived me? Mama Lindy gets to fight? With Durandal???? OMG!!
Let's see...
Lindy have the power to hold Precia's Interdimensional llightning bombardement still which means she's prbably an S-Ranker or above and she'l fight using DURANDAL? ....i have the feeling some belkan butts will be stomped. At least i hope the movie manage to do a good job stablishing Signum as a credible opponent before Lindy trashes her xDU
Abot the nekkid transformation i don't mind much about that ....as long as the Wolks also receive a henshin sequence xD
Archon_Wing
2012-04-25, 11:29
So would you mind neekid Signum?
Akiyoshi
2012-04-25, 11:33
So would you mind neekid Signum?
I doubt the movie would give much focus to that but at least a cool henshing sequence where the Wolks gear up for battle. The ones they had in the original A's were a bit too simple (specially that one where Laevatein tranforms into a stick which Signum holds and then her sword and Knight clothing emerges in a flash ...it was a bit low quality).
The ones in StrikerS were a bit more elaborated but still suffered of low quality animation in comparision with Nanoha/Fate/Forwards and they were also a bit off model.
It's about time for the Wolks to finally get a decent henshin sequence xD
If after all the shafting she's received Hayate doesn't get an awesome solo henshin in her own goddamn movie, I'm going to strangle someone.
Akiyoshi
2012-04-25, 14:19
If after all the shafting she's received Hayate doesn't get an awesome solo henshin in her own goddamn movie, I'm going to strangle someone.
I think Hayate's henshin is almost a sure thing. After all she have one in the original A's and was pretty well done in contrast with the Wolks.
That wasn't a henshin. Not a true one sequence anyway. It was just *poof* clothing in one go. Done.
Akiyoshi
2012-04-25, 14:46
That wasn't a henshin. Not a true one sequence anyway. It was just *poof* clothing in one go. Done.
..mmmhhhh... at least the black feathers flying around and how her jacket "grows" was cool looking xDU
The only complain I have is the movie couldn't be like, ten hours longer? xD especially since my favorite heroine is on cast!
I suppose it's time for the ritual line "please dont suck ?"
Tiresias
2012-04-25, 17:05
Please don't suck.
Yeah brah, dem nekkid transformations have been around since the first movie a's trailer.:heh:
I didn't see the first trailer (or I did, but it's been so long that I forgot about it). Still, my point stands.
DisarestaX
2012-04-27, 08:27
New TVCM
CFiyIx8JWPQ
ditto526
2012-04-27, 09:27
Nice trailer, but who is the girl with the pink hair, it isn't Signum is it?
Nice trailer, but who is the girl with the pink hair, it isn't Signum is it?
Kyrie and Amitie from Gears of Destiny.
Same reaction as Levi.
Kyrie: Aw.
Why are they using Gears of Destiny characters? They are definitely teasing us all xD
..mmmhhhh... at least the black feathers flying around and how her jacket "grows" was cool looking xDU
Oh don't get me wrong, the scene was awesome. I'm just being an embittered-by-all-her-shafting Hayate fan. :p
Same reaction as Levi.
Kyrie: Aw.
Why are they using Gears of Destiny characters? They are definitely teasing us all xD
Teasing? This is dangling the one thing you want in front of your face! It's torture!
Give us a PSPverse movie already!
Yes I totally object! I.T.O.!
Yes they are definitely torturing us all! I'm inviting Tsuzuki to AX.
Lycodrake
2012-04-27, 18:22
Give us a PSPverse movie already!
Extremely unlikely, for multiple reasons. :/
Teasing? This is dangling the one thing you want in front of your face! It's torture!
Give us a PSPverse movie already!
I know! :T_T:
Give us the PSPverse movie!
Extremely unlikely, for multiple reasons. :/
And yet they keep trolling us with these trailers. T_T
It's not as if they can't either. They've already gone AU with these movies, might as well make a second animated AU for the PSPverse.
Random thought: what if this movie is in a PSPverse-like AU, meaning Reinorce gets to live and kickstarts the events of BoA and GoD? It isn't like someone has actually seen the move yet.
One can wish...
Lycodrake
2012-04-28, 20:44
And yet they keep trolling us with these trailers. T_T
It's not as if they can't either. They've already gone AU with these movies, might as well make a second animated AU for the PSPverse.
Random thought: what if this movie is in a PSPverse-like AU, meaning Reinorce gets to live and kickstarts the events of BoA and GoD? It isn't like someone has actually seen the move yet.
One can wish...
That would mean they'd have to actually have certain characters appear, give them dialogue, animation, and all that jazz. Which is highly unlikely.
Tiresias
2012-04-28, 22:29
More importantly, give them enough screentime. So...probably not. Still hoping for some special OVA, though.
Well, they aren't going to give away the ending in movie trailers, and from what I understand of the PSP-verse, Reinforce lived instead of died. So, if they plan to branch off into a third movie, they can still do A's as normal right up until the end. Only this time, Nanoha and Fate decide not to kill Reinforce right in front of Hayate. So Reinforce lives, but knows it is a matter of time until she goes out of control again. Fade to black.
Third movie deals with the emergence of the Materials.
There, got your hopes up, so when it turns out they don't do that, the crushing will be all the sweeter! :P
Well, they aren't going to give away the ending in movie trailers, and from what I understand of the PSP-verse, Reinforce lived instead of died. So, if they plan to branch off into a third movie, they can still do A's as normal right up until the end. Only this time, Nanoha and Fate decide not to kill Reinforce right in front of Hayate. So Reinforce lives, but knows it is a matter of time until she goes out of control again. Fade to black.
Third movie deals with the emergence of the Materials.
There, got your hopes up, so when it turns out they don't do that, the crushing will be all the sweeter! :P
Basically this. The only part they need to change is the ending (Reinforce not needing to die).
ZeroIchiNi
2012-04-29, 09:10
As much as I would like to see the PSP-verse as I movie, I don't want to see it having anything to do with this Continuity.
Agreed. PSP-verse is awesome, don't drag it into Movieverse.
There should be 3 verse at least: Normalverse (aka the one with most series), PSP-verse (BoA and GoD) and Movieverse (1st and A's 2nd)
Curious question, but why? The Normal and movie-verses are essentially identical. The latter is just shorter and flashier. Why not do like the Tenchi-verses or the HiME-verses, where every iteration is a new AU? Do something different!
ZeroIchiNi
2012-04-30, 09:15
The Normal and movie-verses are essentially identical
Not really.
Yuuno gets demoted the moment he showed up.
Precia goes "Oh my god what have I done!" at the end and out of the blue
Hearing that this is an in-universe production. If Fate really have her way with this movie Alicia would get revive, Precia would still be alive and they live happily ever after with everyone else.
there are other things that bugs me about this movie but I don't want to rewatch it again to find out.
Movie 2:
Yuuno not getting into any fights, oh wait it's keeping up with the last movie of him being demoted.
The reunion is no longer the Big Damn Heroes moment
The Liese twins no longer exist.
Lindy may or may not be fighting in this movie. For all I know she's just there to replace Graham in giving the Durandl to Chrono.
It's feels like History is written by the winner and this is the result we got from it.
How would this effect the PSP story if it's part of this Movie-verse?
Yuuno goes bye bye completely again.
Dark Piece Precia will either act the same and not care about what she thought at the end of the first movie. Or she'll act all nice :eyebrow:.
No character development between the Wokeritten + Hayate with the Liese twins.
all the uncomfortable yuri (not U-D) vibes that I have been seeing in the trailers and the movies itself. Next we'll be seeing is Material-S and L hugging and blushing with each other. I'm already having trouble trying to suggest this series to friends due to this Movie-verse and Vivid.
Why not do like the Tenchi-verses or the HiME-verses, where every iteration is a new AU? Do something different!
Sure just leave the PSP-verse out of this and make their own story. That I wouldn't mind as long as there something new to it.
Lycodrake
2012-04-30, 09:40
I agree with most if not all of what ZeroIchiNi brings up there. My own personal aggravation with Movie-verse not-withstanding, if they really did try and branch it off into being like PSP-verse I would have to, much more than likely, just give up on the entire series, minus PSP-verse and fanfiction, altogether.
I don't want the PSPverse movies to roll into the current movies, I just want a PSPverse movie. Or anime. Or manga. I'd settle for a manga.
I don't want the PSPverse movies to roll into the current movies, I just want a PSPverse movie. Or anime. Or manga. I'd settle for a manga.
The manga with the Movie 1st's illustrator to work on the story and art.
Wow that would have been spectacular!
Akiyoshi
2012-04-30, 13:27
It's feels like History is written by the winner and this is the result we got from it.
This. So far all indicates that the TSAB forces will look a lot more competent in the A's movie.
Archon_Wing
2012-05-01, 00:50
There aren't too many changes thus far, but then again neither did Rebuild of Evangelion in the 1st movie, but the 2nd movie was suddenly very different.
The major changes in Movie 1st is that Fate isn't completely downtrodden with the loss of Precia (which resulted in the cutting of one of season 1's best scenes sadly. ) And poor Yuuno. And poor somewhat Alisa. Otherwise, nothing of value was lost, nor do I see anything thus far with A's that would change my idea. I don't miss the Lieze twins one bit.
My only fear is that they will continue their grudge on Hayate. Expect major nerfs all around to the antagonists-- if this were a video game, people would complain that the difficulty is too easy. Worst case scenario has Nanoha outright beating Reinforce. Just brace for it. :S
Akiyoshi
2012-05-01, 01:02
Worst case scenario has Nanoha outright beating Reinforce. Just brace for it. :S
Lindy stomping Signum is already jarring enough, having Nanoha actually beating Reinforce will be outright criminal.
http://nanoha.com/img/ticket_img08.jpg
Akiyoshi
2012-05-01, 01:38
^ Is that a movie ticket o.o?
Archon_Wing
2012-05-01, 01:43
Lindy stomping Signum is already jarring enough, having Nanoha actually beating Reinforce will be outright criminal.
Oh that... Well, Signum can't win a battle against a fly to save her life anymore so what else is new.
But w/e, Lindy is really strong anyways so it'd be a good fight. We are talking about the epic part of Nanoha after all so hope should spring fairly well.
Metal poster + ticket. I already got Nanoha and Fate.
Akiyoshi
2012-05-01, 04:15
^ wait, metal o.o? Wow, i must adit that sounds like really cool stuff xD
There are three coming posters.
One with Nanoha and Fate
One with Hayate (in a wheelchair)
One with the Wolkenritter.
Akiyoshi
2012-05-01, 04:18
The three made of metal xD?
Yep. I pity Reinforce though (she has none).
Lindy stomping Signum is already jarring enough, having Nanoha actually beating Reinforce will be outright criminal.
Lindy is a frigging S-rank mage with enough power to suppress a dimensional disturbance. How would her beating Signum be 'jarring?'
Tiresias
2012-05-01, 06:00
We never saw her in direct combat. As Hayate herself admitted, huge mana supply does not equals instant curbstomp. And before someone brings Chrono to the argument, combat skills are not hereditary and most of his training came from the twins.
That being said, it's not outright impossible for her to turn out to be a good frontline fighter. However, since we never see any of it all these years the production staff better start dropping hints in the Movie, otherwise her suddenly being good at direct combat will come as an asspull. Proper foreshadowing will be needed.
Since we never saw her fight nor heard anything of her skills, I don't see how her being good at fighting is an asspull. If they'd said somewhere she was bad at fighting, then yeah, then it'd be an asspull. But since we don't know anything on her combat skills beyond her being a powerful mage (and frankly, being able to supress a dimensional disturbance is a show of skill more than mana supply in my opinion), I don't see the asspull.
I don't see where there was any hints of Lindy stomping Signum...or even fighting on even terms with her, so I don't know where this debate is even coming from.
The trailer was very discreet with that whole scenario...It might just be Lindy using threat tactics, or they have a few second brawl...In any case it would be highly unlikely, since if Lindy could make beating Signum so easy, there would be little need for Nanoha and Fate to save the day...and upgrade their devices for that matter.
I don't see where there was any hints of Lindy stomping Signum...or even fighting on even terms with her, so I don't know where this debate is even coming from.
Aki, as usual.
I agree there's no sign of Lindy beating Signum in the trailers, but I do hope we at least get to see her fight. If there's one character who was more shafted than Hayate in this series, it was Lindy.
Didn't a movie booklet list Lindy as a "Backbone Support" mage, or something like that? It sounded like her magic is not well-geared for fighting. I think it was the same booklet that called Yuuno a Boundary mage, since he is better with barriers and not good at attack spells, either.
Can't recall any of the movie booklets regarding Lindy (or any booklet entries regarding Lindy, really) having been translated.
But then, Full Back does not translate to "can't fight without help" as Lutecia is demonstrating in Vivid.
Tiresias
2012-05-01, 07:58
and frankly, being able to supress a dimensional disturbance is a show of skill more than mana supply in my opinion
Different kind of specialty. Saying that "skilled" translates to all aspect of magic, support and direct combat, is like saying an superb engineer will also be an excellent marksman.
If I remember correctly, the Device Lindy was holding on the trailer was Durandal aka the one specifically designed with freezing the Tome in mind. The way I see it, that's what her role in the finale will be: setting up the extra-large containment spell that will freeze the corrupted defense program. Lindy gets to use Durandal, Chrono remains with S2U, no Device gets shafted and everybody's happy ;)
...of course, if Lindy is on the field and Chrono is on the field, then...who's commanding the Asura? :heh: Or the one coordinating the overall allocation of forces? Not to mention someone has to be aboard to authorize the firing of a strategic weapon like the Arc-en-Ciel, and I doubt a communication officer like Amy is cleared to do that.
Given how Graham is retconned out of the story, maybe they retconned Durandal to be Lindy's device?
Too many questions. :eyespin:
A good thing, since it leaves something to look forward too, but still :eyespin:
Lycodrake
2012-05-01, 11:34
I think it was the same booklet that called Yuuno a Boundary mage, since he is better with barriers and not good at attack spells, either.
A booklet for movie-verse mentioned him, especially in dealing with A's? :eyebrow:
Akiyoshi
2012-05-01, 12:35
In any case it would be highly unlikely, since if Lindy could make beating Signum so easy, there would be little need for Nanoha and Fate to save the day...and upgrade their devices for that matter.
Basically this. Since being able to beat signum is almost the same as being able to beat any member of the Wolkenritter the threat will be immediately over if Lindy turns out to be stronger than them.
Lindy is a frigging S-rank mage with enough power to suppress a dimensional disturbance. How would her beating Signum be 'jarring?'
Nanoha is a frigging S-rank mage who defeated a physical god and Signum was at mere seconds or minutes of scoring a victory against her xD
Unless, of course, that StrikerS manga "After Days" special was just a lie and Nanoha was being easy on Signum the whole time.
Basically this. Since being able to beat signum is almost the same as being able to beat any member of the Wolkenritter the threat will be immediately over if Lindy turns out to be stronger than them.
Flawed logic. Being able to fight or defeat a wolkenritter does not mean the end of the movie, or even the threat of the knights. Not by a longshot. The Lieze twins trapped all four of them and Nanoha and Fate at the same time, did that end the series? There's a whole legion of variables and potential plotlines that can change the way the movie goes if this fight happens.
Nanoha is a frigging S-rank mage who defeated a physical god and Signum was at mere seconds or minutes of scoring a victory against her xD
Unless, of course, that StrikerS manga "After Days" special was just a lie and Nanoha was being easy on Signum the whole time.
There are so many things wrong with that first claim I don't even know where to start (seriously, Vivio is not a god. And Nanoha defeated her after dealing with the controler and Vita pulled the plug on her powersupply). And that's assuming you were talking about the fight between Nanoha and Vivio, if you were talking about the fight between Nanoha and Reinforce... well, I'll just assume you didn't.
But regardless, that still does not answer the question. How would Lindy being able to defeat Signum be jarring? Aside from bruising your ego, that is.
Akiyoshi
2012-05-01, 13:17
Flawed logic. Being able to fight or defeat a wolkenritter does not mean the end of the movie, or even the threat of the knights. Not by a longshot. The Lieze twins trapped all four of them and Nanoha and Fate at the same time, did that end the series? There's a whole legion of variables and potential plotlines that can change the way the movie goes if this fight happens.
That was because it was all part of the plan, the Lieze Twins provoked a confrontation and pwned everyone with pinpoint accuaracy and timing. They then used that to trigger the book so it can be sealed. I wonder if Lindy even have such an intention.
The theory holds water simply by the fact that if the Wolkenritter can be stopped that easily by Lindy alone then their threat is over, they cannot fill the pages and Nanoha and Fate won't need to get or use any upgrades at all. The Knights stand just by themselves by this point, there's no one supporting them so if they get defeated it's over.
There are so many things wrong with that first claim I don't even know where to start (seriously, Vivio is not a god. And Nanoha defeated her after dealing with the controler and Vita pulled the plug on her powersupply). And that's assuming you were talking about the fight between Nanoha and Vivio, if you were talking about the fight between Nanoha and Reinforce... well, I'll just assume you didn't.
Yep i was talking about Vivio and her semmingly godlike Sankt Kaiser powers.
But regardless, that still does not answer the question. How would Lindy being able to defeat Signum be jarring? Aside from bruising your ego, that is.
Cuase it will further break Signum's already damaged credibility as a fighter and considering she's suppossed to still be strong and threatening in A's. Seeing her being trashed easily by Lindy will be another big hit to her reputation. If that happens the Wolks should be really start considering naming a new leader xDU
That was because it was all part of the plan, the Lieze Twins provoked a confrontation and pwned everyone with pinpoint accuaracy and timing. They then used that to trigger the book so it can be sealed. I wonder if Lindy even have such an intention.
The theory holds water simply by the fact that if the Wolkenritter can be stopped that easily by Lindy alone then their threat is over, they cannot fill the pages and Nanoha and Fate won't need to get or use any upgrades at all. The Knights stand just by themselves by this point, there's no one supporting them so if they get defeated it's over.
Your first portion is exactly my point. Despite the Lieze twins 'beating' all the Wolkenritter, it didn't end the series because of the way the story was written.
You act like Lindy beating Signum automatically means all the wolkenritter just go "Whelp, Signum got beaten once. I guess that means we'll just surrender. No, no, nevermind the fact that we could just retreat and use guerillia tactics or basically anything besides surrendering."
Cuase it will further break Signum's already damaged credibility as a fighter and considering she's suppossed to still be strong and threatening in A's. Seeing her being trashed easily by Lindy will be another big hit to her reputation. If that happens the Wolks should be really start considering naming a new leader xDU
Oh for crying out loud! Any loss now breaks down Signum's credibility? Well, you better brace yourself then Aki, because whether it will be to Lindy, Fate or anyone else, someone is going to be smacking some sense into Signum to get her and the other Wolkies on the good guy's side.
Seriously. Stop it. This argument makes no sense. Signum was already defeated in A's years before Force was ever written, if we follow your warped logic Signum never had any credibility to begin with.
And who ever said anything about the fight between Lindy and Signum being "easy?"
Akiyoshi
2012-05-01, 14:37
Your first portion is exactly my point. Despite the Lieze twins 'beating' all the Wolkenritter, it didn't end the series because of the way the story was written.
That was because it's almost the end of the story and the Book was ready to awake which makes the Wolks job done and thus they outlived their usefulness in the eyes of the Twins. This time is different, if Lindy beats them then the Book won't have another exit than to fully absorb Hayate's core to follow it's programming.
You act like Lindy beating Signum automatically means all the wolkenritter just go "Whelp, Signum got beaten once. I guess that means we'll just surrender. No, no, nevermind the fact that we could just retreat and use guerillia tactics or basically anything besides surrendering."
More like "if Lindy beats Signum with ease that means the other Wolks can't hope for any chance in beating her since the strongest of them has been just trashed like that".
Oh for crying out loud! Any loss now breaks down Signum's credibility? Well, you better brace yourself then Aki, because whether it will be to Lindy, Fate or anyone else, someone is going to be smacking some sense into Signum to get her and the other Wolkies on the good guy's side.
Signum ended up in the good guys side in A's without the need of any beating, but i'm indeed embracing myself now since the movies seems to be a popularity contest which means there's no way unpopular Signum can stand a chance against fan favourite Fate, her destiny against the lightning blonde is already sealed and i'm councsious of it. It was her imminent fight with Lindy what really surprised me.
Seriously. Stop it. This argument makes no sense. Signum was already defeated in A's years before Force was ever written, if we follow your warped logic Signum never had any credibility to begin with.
It was technically "trapped" or "ambushed" rather than outright defeated. No one bested her in direct combat during the entire season. And even if we count that as a defeat it has nothing to do with Signum's power or skill and she manage to rebuold that from that point onwards during StrikerS and specialy the supplementary manga of the season (part of me started to hate the "After Days" chapter cause it was part of what delluded me into thinking she was the best knight of the series).
And who ever said anything about the fight between Lindy and Signum being "easy?"
Math. It will depend on Lindy's skill i guess. We know she already overpowers Signum in raw mana due to her over S-Rank(Lindy's rank is unknown as today but she managed to keep up with SS-Rank Precia in a Beam-O-War), so Signum's only chance to defeat her is in her capability as a fighter. If Lindy happens to be a skilled fighter Signum will be easilly fried since that means Lindy will have Chrono's fighting skills combined with Hayate's monstrous magical output which will make her an insanely broken character.
By that assumption the fight can just go two ways. Singum trashes Lindy or Lindy trashes Signum. I can't see place for an "even" confrontation.
Signum ended up in the good guys side in A's without the need of any beating, but i'm indeed embracing myself now since the movies seems to be a popularity contest which means there's no way unpopular Signum can stand a chance against fan favourite Fate, her destiny against the lightning blonde is already sealed and i'm councsious of it. It was her imminent fight with Lindy what really surprised me.
You really need to think these things through ...
The trailer clearly shows that Signums first fight with Fate ends with Fate's device sliced in two and most likely knocked into the building like in the original. There hasn't been any sneak peaks of their second fight, but I don't think most people value characters based on their fighting capabilities like you do. I don't care if Fate wins, loses, or it ends in a draw. Screen time is my only concern and that most of my favorite scenes are left in-tact.
...And where do you get the idea that the movies are a popularity contest. If you really want to use that twisted logic, then the series was a popularity contest ever since A's (the series, not the movie). And then StrikerS amplified that popularity contest tenfold.
By that assumption the fight can just go two ways. Singum trashes Lindy or Lindy trashes Signum. I can't see place for an "even" confrontation.
Things Lindy doesn't have:
1) 100 years experience (Signum has 100s of years)
Nanoha and Fate both AAAs were pwned by someone of lower rank xD
2) Cartridge system (assuming they don't know anything about it yet).
Stalemate, probably (or if Vita interferes).
Not really.
Yuuno gets demoted the moment he showed up.
Precia goes "Oh my god what have I done!" at the end and out of the blue
Hearing that this is an in-universe production. If Fate really have her way with this movie Alicia would get revive, Precia would still be alive and they live happily ever after with everyone else.
there are other things that bugs me about this movie but I don't want to rewatch it again to find out.
Movie 2:
Yuuno not getting into any fights, oh wait it's keeping up with the last movie of him being demoted.
The reunion is no longer the Big Damn Heroes moment
The Liese twins no longer exist.
Lindy may or may not be fighting in this movie. For all I know she's just there to replace Graham in giving the Durandl to Chrono.
It's feels like History is written by the winner and this is the result we got from it.
How would this effect the PSP story if it's part of this Movie-verse?
Yuuno goes bye bye completely again.
Dark Piece Precia will either act the same and not care about what she thought at the end of the first movie. Or she'll act all nice :eyebrow:.
No character development between the Wokeritten + Hayate with the Liese twins.
all the uncomfortable yuri (not U-D) vibes that I have been seeing in the trailers and the movies itself. Next we'll be seeing is Material-S and L hugging and blushing with each other. I'm already having trouble trying to suggest this series to friends due to this Movie-verse and Vivid.
Sure just leave the PSP-verse out of this and make their own story. That I wouldn't mind as long as there something new to it.
And I thought I was the only one who had those problems with the first movie. (I have more complaints, but I won't get into it here.)
I'm really rubbing my temples in amazement how you twist everything to make your theories sound as facts here, Aki.
I mean, you basically agree that the way a story is written can change things when you said "Signum can join the good guys without getting beaten." Good. That's fine. In fact, I agree that it is possible. It all depends on how the switching of sides is written.
But then you turn around and say that Lindy beating Signum "must" mean that Lindy will do so easily and that it "must" mean that the moment this happens the series is over.
What?
I can list a dozen scenario's from the top of my head why that wouldn't happen. Here's one: Lindy defeats Signum (with great effort, stressing that one) but the Wolkenritter retreat due to Shamal unleashing the power of the book. The Wolkenritter decide that it's better to split up and hit random worlds so they have less chance of getting caught. Bam. Things happen quite similarly to what happened in the series.
Or here's another one: Signum and Lindy's battle happens at the end of the movie and is what sets of the book.
Or how about this: Lindy and Signum's battle is interrupted by the rest of the Wolkenritter before Lindy can deal the final blow (similarly to how Vita was saved by Signum in the beginning of A's), and she gets driven back by and the battle proceeds from there.
See? It's not that hard.
And why would the fight need to be so polarized? I know Nanoha does powerlevels, but one of the thinks StrikerS emphasized was that powerlevels aren't everything. Whether Lindy has a higher mage-rank doesn't matter, what matters is the skill of the fighters in question. And no, that does not mean sword skill > all. A skilled caster [I]can fight on equal level with a sword fighter, and vice versa.
Bottomline: If there is going to be a fight between Lindy and Signum, Signum's possible loss (and I do say possible because we have no clue how this'll end) hardly needs something that automatically signifies the end of the movie.
Or it does signify the end of the movie because Signum injured Chrono and he couldn't fight, so Lindy went all Mama Bear on Signum...
...
I want to see Mama Bear!Lindy now.
Justin_Brett
2012-05-01, 18:58
Read Infinity.
By the way, when did Precia and Lindy have a beam-o-war?
Justin_Brett
2012-05-01, 20:01
Also, I saw Aki throwing a fit about this exact same thing on TV Tropes, and he got pretty much the same responses you gave him, Kero. Who says sites can't agree on something, eh?
Despite my rather... Immense dislike of the first movie, I did like the transformation they gave Fate and the looks of the devices...
Was there any word about the Wolkenritter getting a transformation in this movie or not?
ditto526
2012-05-01, 21:30
And I thought I was the only one who had those problems with the first movie. (I have more complaints, but I won't get into it here.)
I will agree that the first movie had some problems, but demoting Yuuno is not a big deal (never liked him anyways)but i will miss the twins in the second movie, i am also looking forward to seeing Lindy in action, and last but not least, as far as the yuri aspect goes, they are giving the fans what they want, as this has always been hinted at, but also so has the Yuuno, Nanoha aspect, so not a big deal in my Mind
Lycodrake
2012-05-01, 21:47
I will agree that the first movie had some problems, but demoting Yuuno is not a big deal (never liked him anyways)but i will miss the twins in the second movie, i am also looking forward to seeing Lindy in action, and last but not least, as far as the yuri aspect goes, they are giving the fans what they want, as this has always been hinted at, but also so has the Yuuno, Nanoha aspect, so not a big deal in my Mind
...see, having seen the first movie, I call BS on cutting Yuuno out entirely being "not a big deal". Someone had to teach Nanoha magic, and RH certainly doesn't have the functions for anything of the sort. Simulated battle doesn't count, since that requires actually knowing the spells in the first place.
So saying that makes 0 sense to me. :/
@ditto526
... Yuuno not a big deal? Okay, then I dare you to take him out of the equation COMPLETELY. See if the story proceed the same way.
A few possible scenarios:
1: Yuuno never went to Earth. Thus, Nanoha won't get Raising Heart => Fate not being saved => Hayate not being saved.
2: A TSAB soldier went to Earth. Nanoha still get Raising Heart, but the man will be a strict supervisor => Fate get saved, but get a harsher sentence => Hayate might not be saved.
ditto526
2012-05-01, 23:22
@ditto526
... Yuuno not a big deal? Okay, then I dare you to take him out of the equation COMPLETELY. See if the story proceed the same way.
A few possible scenarios:
1: Yuuno never went to Earth. Thus, Nanoha won't get Raising Heart => Fate not being saved => Hayate not being saved.
2: A TSAB soldier went to Earth. Nanoha still get Raising Heart, but the man will be a strict supervisor => Fate get saved, but get a harsher sentence => Hayate might not be saved.
i will admit that he is needed to get the plot moving, however after Nanoha learns about the magic, is he really needed for the story, apparently not as he was all but eliminated in the movie, and i might be wrong but i believe the sentence was worked on by Chrono and not Yuuno,
who knows what his roll will be in the new movie, i believe it will still be minor roll and therefore the story could be done without him, just by making a few minor changes, i know you will not agree, but no story should ever depend on a minor character for the story to move on
i sorry if this upsets you, but it is what i believe
Akiyoshi
2012-05-01, 23:23
Bottomline: If there is going to be a fight between Lindy and Signum, Signum's possible loss (and I do say possible because we have no clue how this'll end) hardly needs something that automatically signifies the end of the movie.
I can't believe i'm going to do this but i'll use the same argument you used to defend Cypha back in the day.
If Lindy really beats Signum then most of the tension of the movie will be killed caus there won't be a real struggle from the good guys side as we know that Lindy could always jump and trash Signum or any of the wolks in case they crosses path with our heroes again. Even if signum have more battles after that scene the tension will be still lessened cuase in our minds will stand the fact that "meh, it doesn't matter, Lindy can beat her anyway".
It will make more sense if it ends up being a climatic battle near the end of the movie (it'll still hurt to see Signum worfed again but at least this time will make sense) because it will be the right moment for the heroes to emerge victorious.
I wonder if Signum will be beaten twice in the movie (one by Lindy and then by Fate). Vita should consider to sign for leadership if that happens xDU
@ditto526
The sentence was argued by both Yuuno and Chrono.
I agree that no story should ever be depend on a minor character. However, in both the original series and A's, Yuuno isn't exactly a minor character. He's one of Nanoha first allies, and helped her with many things.
Archon_Wing
2012-05-02, 01:01
I'm glad I'll never lose my love in my favorite characters, just because they lose a fight now and then. :p
Akiyoshi
2012-05-02, 01:13
I'm glad I'll never lose my love in my favorite characters, just because they lose a fight now and then. :p
Me neither, but you know the saying: "love is suffering" ...and i had been suffering a lot xDU
Rising Dragon
2012-05-02, 01:44
I can't believe i'm going to do this but i'll use the same argument you used to defend Cypha back in the day.
If Lindy really beats Signum then most of the tension of the movie will be killed caus there won't be a real struggle from the good guys side as we know that Lindy could always jump and trash Signum or any of the wolks in case they crosses path with our heroes again. Even if signum have more battles after that scene the tension will be still lessened cuase in our minds will stand the fact that "meh, it doesn't matter, Lindy can beat her anyway".
It will make more sense if it ends up being a climatic battle near the end of the movie (it'll still hurt to see Signum worfed again but at least this time will make sense) because it will be the right moment for the heroes to emerge victorious.
I wonder if Signum will be beaten twice in the movie (one by Lindy and then by Fate). Vita should consider to sign for leadership if that happens xDU
Yes, because everyone knows that if you're able to trounce a single skilled person in battle you can take on an entire army of eldritch magic-stealing programs! /sarcasm
Do you even listen to yourself talk anymore, Aki? If Lindy was able to defeat Signum, so what? Doesn't mean the Wolkenritter can't gang up on her to defeat her. Or distract her and let Shamal take her magic as well, which is far more likely to happen.
Now will you just shut up about your damn sore spot with Signum losing to Cypha? We're all getting goddamn sick and tired of it.
ditto526
2012-05-02, 01:52
@ditto526
The sentence was argued by both Yuuno and Chrono.
I agree that no story should ever be depend on a minor character. However, in both the original series and A's, Yuuno isn't exactly a minor character. He's one of Nanoha first allies, and helped her with many things.
this is true, but because of the time restraints, something needs to go and it will not be Nanoha or Fate, nor can it be the wolkenritter, Hayate, therefore it will be the minor characters of the series. ie. Yuuno and to some extent Arf, along with Arisa and Suzaka, as you only have a little over two hrs to tell the story some sacrifices will need to be made, while it might be nice to have all the characters involved, it is not practical and since this is different telling of the story, they can change what they want and still make a great movie
Akiyoshi
2012-05-02, 01:56
Yes, because everyone knows that if you're able to trounce a single skilled person in battle you can take on an entire army of eldritch magic-stealing programs! /sarcasm
4 knights are hardly an army, specially against a skilled Over S-ranker like Lindy.
If Lindy was able to defeat Signum, so what? Doesn't mean the Wolkenritter can't gang up on her to defeat her. Or distract her and let Shamal take her magic as well, which is far more likely to happen.
First off, Lindy will probably attempt to capture Signum after giving her the beating of her life. Second, i wonder how much could Vita, Shamal and Zafira could accomplish against such a broken opponent who more likely will be supported by her own crew (sure, they're all red shirts but are a big annoying bunch of them xDU). Third, Shamal's core stealing technique only work on severly weakened opponents and assuming Lindy is far more powerfull than all of them that seems unlikely xDU
Well, there's also the detail that i doubt the wolkenritter will resort to such cowardly tactics (gang up) to accomplish something, seeing at how they fight on one-on-one duels most of the time. But i give the benefit of the doubt on that regard because with Hayate's life on the line i guess they'll probably willing to behave like cowards in order to save her.
Rising Dragon
2012-05-02, 01:59
Remind me where it's said that Lindy's unbeatable in battle? Remind me where it's said that Shamal can only core-grab on severely weakened people? Your own twisted little mind doesn't count as a source.
Akiyoshi
2012-05-02, 02:01
Remind me where it's said that Lindy's unbeatable in battle? Remind me where it's said that Shamal can only core-grab on severely weakened people? Your own twisted little mind doesn't count as a source.
People stormed me with tons of theories and assumptions about how Lindy should be able to trash Signum so i'm just reflecting what i've read. About Shamal's core stealing technique it's on the wikia and in the A's DVD Vol. 1 Booklet
Oh right, Nanoha was injured.... (in the process of healing).
Archon_Wing
2012-05-02, 03:23
Being Aki is suffering. :/
There are many scenarios we can contrive. For example, Fate gets drained for some other reason when fighting Signum, and Lindy manages to intercept her a bit later. If she's already worn then it makes it more reason that Lindy has the upper hand. But then something like... Signum fakes a surrender and does a sucker attack to take herself down with Lindy, causing enough chaos and damage for Shamal to drain Lindy too.
We could also have it the other way around. She doesn't fight Fate in the desert, but fights Lindy as such, and Fate manages to barely beat Signum later on, who hasn't recovered yet. But then that wouldn't satisfy Aki either. ;)
Barring that we can always have a hostage situation or some shit. Or this "we need to give up this fight and chase because something will explode and kill tons of people"
Maybe we can make the Wolkies super bold and super desperate by having them perform a sneak attack on the TSAB crew stationed in the area-- nobody's gonna expect that as that would be considered suicide. It would be dangerous but would offer the biggest prizes in magic to add to the book. The only thing needed to contrive this is to make it so that Hayate's situation is so bad now that she will not make it to the end of the week. In this, they will sneak attack and maybe pull a super hidden technique or two out the ass and drain like all the redshirts around dry. We could go from that path.
It could also be like that Lindy is really strong, but more of a bombardment type (much like Hayate herself). It'd be interesting to see her engage Reinforce too, but fail as well.
I'm just really writing crap as it comes off the top of my head. I'm sure Tsuzuki can do better... I hope. In any case, the stronger person doesn't always win the fight.
Akiyoshi
2012-05-02, 03:30
I'm just really writing crap as it comes off the top of my head. I'm sure Tsuzuki can do better... I hope.
Me too, Tsuzuki is a very curious person able to write very opposite quality stuff like MOVIE 1st manga and FORCE at the same time. MOVIE 1st also was really cool despite some minor details, but the closer MOVIE 2nd is the more nervous i'm getting >_<
I can't believe i'm going to do this but i'll use the same argument you used to defend Cypha back in the day.
If Lindy really beats Signum then most of the tension of the movie will be killed caus there won't be a real struggle from the good guys side as we know that Lindy could always jump and trash Signum or any of the wolks in case they crosses path with our heroes again. Even if signum have more battles after that scene the tension will be still lessened cuase in our minds will stand the fact that "meh, it doesn't matter, Lindy can beat her anyway".
It will make more sense if it ends up being a climatic battle near the end of the movie (it'll still hurt to see Signum worfed again but at least this time will make sense) because it will be the right moment for the heroes to emerge victorious.
I wonder if Signum will be beaten twice in the movie (one by Lindy and then by Fate). Vita should consider to sign for leadership if that happens xDU
Fallacious argument. It assumes that the fight happens both A: Early in the series and B: That Lindy trashes Signum easily. Neither is as certain to happen as you make it out to be.
Again the center of your reasoning seems to be that such a battle would be a curbstomp. If the battle in equal and ends in a close victory for Lindy, then the tension is still there. Heck, it would be heightened because the next time Fate would fight Signum the common reaction among the audience will be "Do you think she'll be allright? I mean, even Lindy had a hard time with Signum..."
And for pitty's sake Aki, actually try to read up on the Worf Effect for once. The Worf Effect applies to unknown new villains to establish them as threats. A hero beating up a villain (even a tragic one such as Signum) does not apply the Worf Effect.
Akiyoshi
2012-05-02, 03:51
Again the center of your reasoning seems to be that such a battle would be a curbstomp. If the battle in equal and ends in a close victory for Lindy, then the tension is still there. Heck, it would be heightened because the next time Fate would fight Signum the common reaction among the audience will be "Do you think she'll be allright? I mean, even Lindy had a hard time with Signum..."
As i've said it will depend mostly on Lindy as we already know the limits of what Signum is able to do in a battle. For starters we can safely asume Lindy is more likely on Hayate's league powerwise thanks to the events of Season One/MOVIE 1st. As Signum can't hope to match her in raw power her only win condition is to best Lindy in front combat, if Lindy happens to be as skilled as people are implying her to be then Signum's only win condition will dissapear and curbstomp ensues. Cold numbers xDU
About the tension with Fate i guess it could be possible but then one we'll be left wondering why Lindy just don't swoop in the fight and trash Signum again xDU
Cold numbers? You're just giving me theories based on nothing but your own opinion.
Akiyoshi
2012-05-02, 04:05
Cold numbers? You're just giving me theories based on nothing but your own opinion.
Fine, "Warm Numbers" then. Since we have an "X" variable in the equation which is represented by Lindy's unkown fighting skills.
Fighting skills, experience, location, emotional condition, physical condition, ally condition, ally location, motivation, weapon condition... the list of variables goes on and on. And that's without plot armor, which basically throws all logic out the window and will just go for what the author thinks is cool.
Elle_White
2012-05-02, 05:16
I notice that Lindy is holding Durandal, a device that was specifically designed to seal the Book of Darkness. So I think she's talking sealing it away. In the scene directly before that, we have Lindy crying out for Clyde. By setting the trailer up this way, it is emphasizing that Lindy understands the dangers of the BoD on a personal level. And that she has an investment in making sure that it doesn't wreak havoc again. It's made pretty clear near the start of the trailer with the calm moments and the Harloawn family photo (?) that the BoD incident is going to interrupt the peace in a major way. You've also got Lindy looking at a photo of her, Chrono and Clyde in the first trailer.
What I'm saying is, that everything points to Lindy trying put a stopper on a threat that once tore her family apart before. She doesn't want see it happen again. It makes sense that she's wants to end it all together with the power of the Durandal, but Vita interrupts Lindy's to stop them from completing the Book of Darkness.
Of course, I don't know the exact details of how the incident will play out in this version. But from what we've seen, that very much seems to be the basic set up here.
Speaking of Durandal, we know that it was a device designed to seal the book of darkness in A's, but we also know that in that series it was created by Graham. With Graham out of the picture, the origins of Durandal will certainly change.
Knowing that, isn't it possible that the intent of Durandal will change as well? I wouldn't mind Durandal being Lindy's personal device myself.
Elle_White
2012-05-02, 05:26
I think they'll most likely give it the same purpose it had in the original, only with obviously different origins. The scene seems to come off as Lindy wanting to put a stop to the incident altogether, which makes sense if Durandal has the same function that it did in the original. But it would also be great if it was Lindy's personal device!
Yeah, it's not a strange shift to go from "designed by Graham" to "designed by the TSAB." The Bureau has known about the book for decades after all.
Tiresias
2012-05-02, 05:42
Maybe it's Clyde's?
"Your father's Device. This is the weapon of an Enforcer. Not as brutish or as simplified as your average mage-staff, but a versatile weapon for a more demanding occupation."
...
...
...uh oh. :uhoh:
Later...
Why didn't you tell me? You said the Book of Darkness murdered my father.
What I told you was true, from a certain point of view.
____________
Waaaaiiiit a sec, if Graham's not part of the story, then who fired the Arc on Clyde's ship?
Elle_White
2012-05-02, 06:25
LOL
I think it's important that Lindy is talking to Signum specifically in this scene. Signum the leader of the Wolkenritter, and she's also the one that Fate is paired against in battle. And in the scene just before that, Lindy is shown crying over loosing her husband in the previous Book of Darkness case. I'm almost certain this scene is about Lindy talking about using Durandal to end things because she wants to defend her family from an incident that's killed those close to her in the past.
I thought a movie booklet regarding the 1st movie had been translated, and it listed the mage types. Ah, here is the post I am thinking of:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2881701#post2881701
Okay, I mis-remembered a bit. They list Lindy as Backbone attacker and supporter, so I guess she does have some attack potential.
Lycodrake
2012-05-02, 08:50
this is true, but because of the time restraints, something needs to go and it will not be Nanoha or Fate, nor can it be the wolkenritter, Hayate, therefore it will be the minor characters of the series. ie. Yuuno and to some extent Arf, along with Arisa and Suzaka, as you only have a little over two hrs to tell the story some sacrifices will need to be made, while it might be nice to have all the characters involved, it is not practical and since this is different telling of the story, they can change what they want and still make a great movie
I think you fail to understand that Yuuno and Arf were major characters in the first season and A's. Without them, the series would've gone to hell in a hand-basket as soon as the Jewel Seeds were around. And for Fate, without Arf? Think about that for a few seconds. :/
ditto526
2012-05-02, 09:59
I think you fail to understand that Yuuno and Arf were major characters in the first season and A's. Without them, the series would've gone to hell in a hand-basket as soon as the Jewel Seeds were around. And for Fate, without Arf? Think about that for a few seconds. :/
i am not forgetting about that, but i am talking about the movies, while i love the Arf character, and she is a major player in the series, i think that her roll in the movie will be reduced, hopefully not as bad as yuuno's, but it will be reduced, you have to many characters to deal with in this movie and therefore something will need to go
i still hope that she will still have a bigger roll. but i think we are getting off track, we are talking about Yuuno, as he is needed to introduce Nanoha to magic and to get her started, is he needed?, if you go by the A's series, he is not there while Nanoha is practicing her magic, as he is with Fate and the gang, so that shows that at that point he really is not needed for that aspect, as for the movie, it looks like Nanoha and Fate will already be together and reunited before the fighting begins and he may or may not need to save her from Vita, as this only an opinion. we will not know until july when it comes out.
by the way thanks for the great discussion it has been a lot of fun.
Tiresias
2012-05-02, 10:44
Frankly, with how the limited time necessitates several role reductions, I'd rather the movie focuses on those with bigger emotional investment on the Book of Darkness: The Wolkenritter and Reinforce, Hayate, Chrono and Lindy. Yes, that includes reduced screentime for Nanoha and Fate, because unlike the first season A's was never really about them, but eh, who am I kidding? Like that would ever happen...
For those who keep saying stuff about "limited screen time" (and believe me, I don't really believe that), do keep in mind that if limited screen time applies, why bring stuff up that doesn't apply to the movie itself? (Linker Core explanation, I'm glaring at you :frustrated:)
I usually watch this if I want to watch the 1st movie these days. More brief than the movie, but it does give everyone a decent amount of screen time with how short it is.
INkpOVrnA-M
Tiresias
2012-05-02, 11:56
Frankly, I only partially believe the screentime excuse. Oh sure, I understand that turning a long story into a movie requires making several alterations and cuts, and attempting to cram as much as scene as you can to please the fans risks repeating the mess that was Unlimited Blade Works, but removing three characters who was vital in prolonging the hostility?
Eh, it's more likely that they just want to give flashy characters with flashy powers more screentime as advertisement for their merchandise, and thus those with support powers or non-combat roles (read: they don't sell as good) don't get any.
ditto526
2012-05-02, 15:14
Frankly, I only partially believe the screentime excuse. Oh sure, I understand that turning a long story into a movie requires making several alterations and cuts, and attempting to cram as much as scene as you can to please the fans risks repeating the mess that was Unlimited Blade Works, but removing three characters who was vital in prolonging the hostility?
Eh, it's more likely that they just want to give flashy characters with flashy powers more screentime as advertisement for their merchandise, and thus those with support powers or non-combat roles (read: they don't sell as good) don't get any.
but remember that if they were to put out yuuno merchandise, instead of Nanoha & Fate, then more then likely there would be no more movies, you are correct that they are giving the fans what they want, because without them there would be no Movies, because the movies makers not only depend on ticket sales to make a profit, they also get the money from the merchandise sales, and lets not forget that all of this is about MONEY. No Sales No Series
ZeroIchiNi
2012-05-02, 15:31
Unfortunately, Most Japanese companies nowadays are just playing it safe and are not trying as hard for anything new. Heck you just remind me why most things out of DC is Batman and Most things out of the X-Men is Wolverine.
They are neglecting everyone else.
i am not forgetting about that, but i am talking about the movies, while i love the Arf character, and she is a major player in the series, i think that her roll in the movie will be reduced, hopefully not as bad as yuuno's, but it will be reduced, you have to many characters to deal with in this movie and therefore something will need to go
i still hope that she will still have a bigger roll. but i think we are getting off track, we are talking about Yuuno, as he is needed to introduce Nanoha to magic and to get her started, is he needed?, if you go by the A's series, he is not there while Nanoha is practicing her magic, as he is with Fate and the gang, so that shows that at that point he really is not needed for that aspect, as for the movie, it looks like Nanoha and Fate will already be together and reunited before the fighting begins and he may or may not need to save her from Vita, as this only an opinion. we will not know until july when it comes out.
by the way thanks for the great discussion it has been a lot of fun.
Yuuno is needed for far more than that. In the first series, he's the one who breaks the rules and prods Nanoha into saving Fate, teleporting her off the bridge. In A's, he holds off Vita so Nanoha can fire her Starlight Breaker, and would have been able to teleport everyone to safety if Arf had been able to break the barrier. He then shielded everyone in the second fight (along with Arf) against the lightning attack Shamal unleashed from the book. And then, not to mention, it was his search spells and research that dug up information about the book, enabling Nanoha to ultimately free both Hayate and Fate from it.
I think people really underestimate, sometimes, how much of an important role he plays. The same goes for any character. You take one piece out of the puzzle, no matter how minor you think it is, and the whole thing can begin to unravel.
Granted, it's obvious they are rewriting A's, and it will remain to be seen exactly how that plays out. But Yuuno played a big part in the first series and movie, and played a decent part in A's. Stuff that they will have to address somehow, if they plan to really minimize him. I'm already wondering exactly how they plan to handle the first fight with the Wolkenritter, if he won't be fighting. Who will be holding Vita off?
Lycodrake
2012-05-02, 19:19
Yuuno is needed for far more than that. In the first series, he's the one who breaks the rules and prods Nanoha into saving Fate, teleporting her off the bridge. In A's, he holds off Vita so Nanoha can fire her Starlight Breaker, and would have been able to teleport everyone to safety if Arf had been able to break the barrier. He then shielded everyone in the second fight (along with Arf) against the lightning attack Shamal unleashed from the book. And then, not to mention, it was his search spells and research that dug up information about the book, enabling Nanoha to ultimately free both Hayate and Fate from it.
I think people really underestimate, sometimes, how much of an important role he plays. The same goes for any character. You take one piece out of the puzzle, no matter how minor you think it is, and the whole thing can begin to unravel.
Granted, it's obvious they are rewriting A's, and it will remain to be seen exactly how that plays out. But Yuuno played a big part in the first series and movie, and played a decent part in A's. Stuff that they will have to address somehow, if they plan to really minimize him. I'm already wondering exactly how they plan to handle the first fight with the Wolkenritter, if he won't be fighting. Who will be holding Vita off?
Pretty much all I really wanted to get at, but worded much better than I could've hoped to have done. Nice, Kaijo. ^^
I'm already wondering exactly how they plan to handle the first fight with the Wolkenritter, if he won't be fighting. Who will be holding Vita off?
Probably Chrono, since if Lindy's taking most of his original role and Durandal along with it, he might as well jump in straight from the beginning and engage the wolkies during the first fight.
Wow I'm getting kind of worried, they've shuffled a lot of things in this movie...
Tiresias
2012-05-02, 19:32
I'm already wondering exactly how they plan to handle the first fight with the Wolkenritter, if he won't be fighting. Who will be holding Vita off?
Considering that instead of Fate having a Big Damn Heroes moment to Nanoha the trailers showed them meeting before the attack, there are little chances that the fight will go the same way.
Wait, wasn't chrono also there during the first fight, engaging the twin?
Wait, wasn't chrono also there during the first fight, engaging the twin?
Ugh no, the twins only appears as the enemy during the last fight, when they were dressed as Hentai Kamen. The first fight was during Fate's Big Damn Heroes moment where Nanoha's Linker Core got stolen.
IIRC, Chrono was with Amy and Lindy on Asura at that moment.
Rising Dragon
2012-05-02, 19:46
In the first battle, Chrono was on the Arthra and realized what they were dealing with upon seeing the Book of Darkness on one of the monitors. Chrono didn't engage in battle until the second confrontation, first against Vita and Zafira (with military as backup), and then secretly closing in on Shamal when Nanoha and Fate arrived to deal with Vita and Signum.
ditto526
2012-05-02, 21:04
Yuuno is needed for far more than that. In the first series, he's the one who breaks the rules and prods Nanoha into saving Fate, teleporting her off the bridge. In A's, he holds off Vita so Nanoha can fire her Starlight Breaker, and would have been able to teleport everyone to safety if Arf had been able to break the barrier. He then shielded everyone in the second fight (along with Arf) against the lightning attack Shamal unleashed from the book. And then, not to mention, it was his search spells and research that dug up information about the book, enabling Nanoha to ultimately free both Hayate and Fate from it.
I think people really underestimate, sometimes, how much of an important role he plays. The same goes for any character. You take one piece out of the puzzle, no matter how minor you think it is, and the whole thing can begin to unravel.
Granted, it's obvious they are rewriting A's, and it will remain to be seen exactly how that plays out. But Yuuno played a big part in the first series and movie, and played a decent part in A's. Stuff that they will have to address somehow, if they plan to really minimize him. I'm already wondering exactly how they plan to handle the first fight with the Wolkenritter, if he won't be fighting. Who will be holding Vita off?
How about we agree to disagree, while this has been fun, we won't know anything until July, you may be correct, i may be correct, it has yet to be seen,
so how about we pick this up in July?
The guessing goes up even higher.
And Signum is not really that bad xD.
WarpObscura
2012-05-02, 21:32
Waaaaiiiit a sec, if Graham's not part of the story, then who fired the Arc on Clyde's ship?
It could just be another random shipmaster in the same strike group, especially since it looks like the "I was responsible for killing Clyde and now want to make up for it at all costs" aspect is being left out.
Or probably was Gil Graham himself, except he felt the loss of Clyde so hard he retired from the TSAB after that incident.
Akiyoshi
2012-05-03, 01:06
There's also the fact that we're assuming Graham won't be part of the plot. So far the only ones confirmed to be absent are the Lieze Twins, Graham could still be behind everything but this time being less directly involved.
Here's a respected and admired high-ranked official so there's lots of ways and/or people he can use to achieve his goals.
I think people really underestimate, sometimes, how much of an important role he plays. The same goes for any character. You take one piece out of the puzzle, no matter how minor you think it is, and the whole thing can begin to unravel.
Rewriting a story and removing characters is actually very easy. It just depends on how much of the original plot you want to leave intact. I can remove Fate from S1 and replace her with Arf, for example. Yeah, the original plot goes boom, but the overall story on Nanoha's side (gathering jewel seeds and saving someone) would still work, just in a very different way.
So yeah, while I agree with ditto that it's possible to write Yuuno out of A's, I will add that this is possible for any character. It just depends on how much of the original story you want to leave intact. Being able to write them out doesn't really signify their importance.
Archon_Wing
2012-05-03, 04:37
Fortunately, there's no reason whatsoever to not keep Yuuno's scenes especially in the first fight. It doesn't even take much time for Yuno to come in and go "Sup want some healing while I ignore Vita's attempts to kill me?" And I surely hope they won't throw people out for yuri subtext because that would just be lame.
Also the Wolkies were holding back in A's. If they were somehow more ruthless or desperate then you'd see a bigger need for everyone to be involved and you can change stuff around to compress it too. We don't need to see multiple engagement between the dueling pairs anyways.
Graham's role in the story I was never too satisfied with, though on the other hand I didn't need it either to enjoy A's. Retooling that part isn't a bad idea and might just give a device for Chrono's development if they want to go over it in depth.
I wouldn't mind some more personal development on Chrono and Lindy's part either. I mean, this book is the reason their family was torn apart, yet A's just... pretty much glossed over that.
Elle_White
2012-05-03, 04:58
Agreed. I mentioned somewhere before that it does seem odd that Lindy didn't have more emotional investment in the BoD case in the original series. The book tore her family apart once. Thankfully, the trailers are indicating that issue will be addressed in the movie. It looks like part of the movie will on the Harlaown family dealing with the BoD coming back into their lives, while Fate and Arf are joining the family. And I'm really excited to see how it plays out!
Archon_Wing
2012-05-03, 05:32
I wouldn't mind some more personal development on Chrono and Lindy's part either. I mean, this book is the reason their family was torn apart, yet A's just... pretty much glossed over that.
The flashback in A's episode 10 was a wonderful hook to more interesting things but they only managed to capture the point about Grahmn's guilt over the incident. It could have been a vital episode for Chrono, and I feel if that opportunity was taken, we'd see more of him in later series. If the 1st movie would go back to fill in details about Fate's past, it's not unfair to have the 2nd movie do it with this element of the plot which could allow for a more tense confrontation between say, Chrono and Grahmn for something even more personal-- mentor vs student, in A's case it was split between the twins and him.This can really be setup just by saving a few minutes to go more into Chrono's dad, maybe even a flashback of him with his family and Grahmn... and to show it was all torn apart.
And we do have a precedent too. The first movie focused far more on Precia and the events surrounding her and Alicia than the entirety of S1. It's not impossible that the A's movie will do something similar.
Elle_White
2012-05-03, 07:09
That's true.
I think it looks like Fate will be closer to the Harloawn family at the beginning of the movie than she was at the beginning of the series. I mean, it looks like they're having a family photo taken near the beginning of the movie. Fate's wearing the same she reunites with Nanoha in that shot. So I think they way Fate becomes part of the Harloawn family will change a bit.
At the end of the 1st movie, Lindy became Fate's legal guardian, and that didn't happen in the original series. And in the sound stage where Lindy offered to adopt Fate, mentioned that they hadn't had a chance to talk since the incident. That would've been awkward for both of them. But since Lindy became Fate's legal guardian in the movie, she would've been spending more time with her. And Fate was probably spending even more time with Chrono and Amy as a result. So it would make sense she she'd feel a little more integrated into the family from the time between the ending of the first movie and the beginning of the second. Didn't take six months for Fate's trial to be over in the original? It's still not that long, but long enough to feel a closer connection to the family if they've been spending lots of time with her.
While I am hesitant to give Fate yet more screentime, I do admit that a couple of scenes of her adjusting to having an actual functional family is something A's pretty much skipped out on.
I don't think this means she'd have more involvement in the whole Harlaown/book of darkness dilemma though. Fate never knew Clyde, after all.
Considering that instead of Fate having a Big Damn Heroes moment to Nanoha the trailers showed them meeting before the attack, there are little chances that the fight will go the same way.
Well, I will say that, according to the trailers, Nanoha's fight with Vita seems to go pretty much the same way. Except for the flashier combat moves. Kinda like the first movie.
Edit: I'm not saying they can't write him out, and rewrite the plot however they want. All I said was that he was important in S1, A's, and the 1st movie. Hell, you could write every character out except Hayate and the Wolkenritter, and have Hayate save herself if you wanted. I'll leave the contemplation of movie quality in that case, as an exercise to the reader.
Elle_White
2012-05-03, 07:48
Fate will pretty much have to get scenes where she's adjusting to her new family. It was set up more in this film with Lindy becoming her guardian, and there's hints of it in the trailer. According to Nana Mizuki, Fate will be troubled by worries in the movie. And I think they'll mainly be about her new family and their concerns about the BoD. I think her side of the story will partly be about her adoptive family. Because of the 'little sister' scene in the first movie, and the fact she seems closer to the Harlaown family, I don't think Fate will have the Lotus Eater dream in this movie. And I'm happy with that. We did get some development for Fate and Lindy's relationship in A's, but I don't think it was touched on enough. Fate needed more focus on that for her arc. I think the major part of Fate's storyline will mostly tie in with her relationship to the Harlaown's. It make sense with what we've scene and how things played out in the last movie.
Fate and the Harlaown's story will be creating a new family. The last incident tore the family apart, but they're going to build on their family this time around. It fits perfectly with the way the plot and themes were built up in the last movie. And everything we've seen so far suggests that will happen. The movie will primarily be about the Harlaown and Yagami families. It will be awesome and I can't wait to see it!
Elle_White
2012-05-03, 07:55
Another thing I'm looking forward to in the movie, is Hayate playing a bigger role in the incident. It will be interesting to see exactly how that plays out.
Tiresias
2012-05-03, 10:38
Well, I will say that, according to the trailers, Nanoha's fight with Vita seems to go pretty much the same way. Except for the flashier combat moves. Kinda like the first movie.
But since Fate is already planetside, she would be able to respond earlier. And since Yuuno haven't been confirmed to be planetside, she might hog all the glory this time.
*shrugs*Just saying you might not want to hope too much about Yuuno getting any role. The wind doesn't seem to blow that way.;)
All I hope is that they don't take the big damn heroes moment away from Fate. The scene at the end of the first season/movie were portrayed the same way...In that Fate said she would be there to save Nanoha the next time she's in trouble, and unless Tsuzuki wasn't thinking logically (Admittedly, that's not unusual for him...) I don't see how the scene could be ignored.
Akiyoshi
2012-05-03, 15:13
^ Agreed, that scene was our first impression of the new Fate after overcoming the events of Season One and was very impressive to see her coming out of all that crap as a total BADASS who engaged and nearly defeated Vita on her debut fight. I'll really miss that scene if Tsuzuki decides to modify it.
ZeroIchiNi
2012-05-03, 15:23
If they are still leaving the big damn heroes in there, it's not going to be as good as before since we know Fate is already on Earth. And that it's no longer a reunion.
That's fine with me, appearing the very second Nanoha needed help in A's was a bit farfetched anyways. This way Nanoha can maybe make a call using her telepathy or something. I wonder what the radius of that is.
I don't see why the big damn heroes scene should be removed either. The dream sequence during the final battle, yeah, but the rescue of Nanoha is a fitting entree for Fate. You could simply say it took a while to breach Vita's barrier as an excuse why it took her so long.
Rising Dragon
2012-05-03, 15:42
Or maybe she's still staying on the Arthra since they haven't secured a house yet? Anything's possible.
Elle_White
2012-05-03, 17:02
Yeah, I don't see why they'd remove the big damn heroes moment. Fate and Nanoha's bond is supposed to be even stronger this time around, so I don't think they'd skimp on such a badass scene. I'm fine with them moving it after the reunion, because it'll be less sudden. I don't think it will take away from it's awesome.
But since Fate is already planetside, she would be able to respond earlier. And since Yuuno haven't been confirmed to be planetside, she might hog all the glory this time.
*shrugs*Just saying you might not want to hope too much about Yuuno getting any role. The wind doesn't seem to blow that way.;)
Oh, I'm not getting my hopes up for anything, really. The first movie already proved how much it can sideline secondary characters in order to focus more on Fate (no, Arisa and Suzuka, your part wasn't important at all in the grand scheme of things... except maybe that it was the sole reason Nanoha was able to reach out to Fate in the first place). Not to mention Nanoha's family.
If the title character can't get backstory and development in her own film the first time around, I have little hope anyone else will get anything in A's.
Anyway, Fate being planetside will most likely make the rescue more awkward. The delay of her arrival in the series could be explained by the Asura having to make the trip and not being there yet (explaining why Yuuno had to teleport them in). If Fate's already planetside, then it will beg the question "Why didn't she arrive sooner?" It's already been shown that it doesn't make much to get into a barrier; just issues getting out of one. Vita specifically cast that one to capture the mana-rich target she was hunting.
Hell, if Fate is living in Japan now, she probably should have been caught in the barrier, which means it should be a quick team-up with Nanoha against Vita.
Akiyoshi
2012-05-03, 18:19
Maybe Vita won't appear alone at all? Probably the whole Wolkenritter will descend on the heroes right from the start.
Anyway, Fate being planetside will most likely make the rescue more awkward. The delay of her arrival in the series could be explained by the Asura having to make the trip and not being there yet (explaining why Yuuno had to teleport them in). If Fate's already planetside, then it will beg the question "Why didn't she arrive sooner?" It's already been shown that it doesn't make much to get into a barrier; just issues getting out of one. Vita specifically cast that one to capture the mana-rich target she was hunting.
Hell, if Fate is living in Japan now, she probably should have been caught in the barrier, which means it should be a quick team-up with Nanoha against Vita.
The wolkenritter appeared out of the blue and Nanoha was smashed into the building by Vita rather quickly. Fate may be in the same country but she wasn't with Nanoha while she was practicing her magic. It has to take at least a few minutes to figure out what is going on, and where. Let alone the fact that Nanoha is in trouble and needs to be saved...
Akiyoshi
2012-05-03, 18:27
^ I think what Kaijo meant is that if Fate is currently living on earth the Wolkenritter more likely would go after her instead of Nanoha (or at the same time if they split forces) which will make sense because Fate is still more powerfull than Nanoha in terms of raw mana which is exactly what the Wolks are after.
If the title character can't get backstory and development in her own film the first time around, I have little hope anyone else will get anything in A's.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Nanoha has never been about Nanoha. The only reason S1 focused as much on Nanoha as it did was because it introduced her, but the main plot of S1 was centered more around Fate than Nanoha. Fate is the one with the problem, Fate is the one who actually goes through character development, Fate is the one who gets actual resolution. Likewise, A's is Hayate's story. It's not until StrikerS that Nanoha actually gets a plotline for herself in the form of Vivio and her struggle with sudden motherhood.
Vivid seems to follow this trend as well. Despite being the titular character, the story so far has been more about Einhart than Vivio.
^ I think what Kaijo meant is that if Fate is currently living on earth the Wolkenritter more likely would go after her instead of Nanoha (or at the same time if they split forces) which will make sense because Fate is still more powerfull than Nanoha in terms of raw mana which is exactly what the Wolks are after.
I don't think the wolkenritter would really know who has the most magic power at just a glance. I remember shamal being surprised with how many pages Nanohas linker core filled up. And Nanoha was by herself on top of a roof...There is no telling where Fate is at this time.
The wolkenritter appeared out of the blue and Nanoha was smashed into the building by Vita rather quickly. Fate may be in the same country but she wasn't with Nanoha while she was practicing her magic. It has to take at least a few minutes to figure out what is going on, and where. Let alone the fact that Nanoha is in trouble and needs to be saved...
Raising Heart detected Vita's barrier going up before it actually reached her. Common sense would dictate that Bardice would detect it, too. There were several long minutes between the barrier going up, and Vita attacking Nanoha. After all, the latter had time to leave the house and end up on the roof of a tall building.
If Fate has anywhere near the reaction time that Nanoha did in the series, she should be in the barrier and trying to contact and meet up with Nanoha in order to face whatever is coming together (along with Arf).
Thus, if she's nearby and doesn't, there better be a damn good reason why.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Nanoha has never been about Nanoha. The only reason S1 focused as much on Nanoha as it did was because it introduced her, but the main plot of S1 was centered more around Fate than Nanoha. Fate is the one with the problem, Fate is the one who actually goes through character development, Fate is the one who gets actual resolution. Likewise, A's is Hayate's story. It's not until StrikerS that Nanoha actually gets a plotline for herself in the form of Vivio and her struggle with sudden motherhood.
Vivid seems to follow this trend as well. Despite being the titular character, the story so far has been more about Einhart than Vivio.
I don't dispute that this is the way it is; but my view is that it shouldn't be this way. Nanoha herself has some interesting backstory in terms of her family and her friends. She's a fairly unique individual, being very mature for her age. It's one of the main things new people I show Nanoha to, show considerable disbelief at. So even though I like that maturity, I would prefer that they actually take some time to show why that is, and then fit in a bit of growth. They kinda did that in StrikerS with Nanoha becoming a mother to Vivio.
It can be about both Nanoha AND Fate. It doesn't have to be about one or the other. A good series will give some good development to all characters, even if they are secondaries; reference Vice in StrikerS.
Elle_White
2012-05-03, 20:05
I guess it actually hasn't been confirmed that Graham won't be in the movie. We only know for sure that the Leize twins won't be there. It would make sense for him to still be there, because he was vital to the plot in the original; much of the conflict came from his decisions. And I was beginning to wonder how Hayate was able to live in her house, afford a train ticket and so on without Graham financially supporting her. It wouldn't make any sense without him there.
You can always send the money (XD... probably by mail or something).
Raising Heart detected Vita's barrier going up before it actually reached her. Common sense would dictate that Bardice would detect it, too. There were several long minutes between the barrier going up, and Vita attacking Nanoha. After all, the latter had time to leave the house and end up on the roof of a tall building.
What? Wasn't Nanoha up on the roof before she detected the barrier. Practicing her magic and all.
Elle_White
2012-05-03, 20:22
No, I mean if Graham doesn't exist in the film at all, then Hayate's source of money in the original would be gone altogether, and unless someone else was providing her with the money to get by, it would be a plot hole.
Rising Dragon
2012-05-03, 20:32
No, Demi., Nanoha was in her bedroom when the barrier went up.
You're confusing earlier in the episode, when she was practicing magic in the park, which was during the day. Vita attacked at night.
Tiresias
2012-05-03, 20:42
No, I mean if Graham doesn't exist in the film at all, then Hayate's source of money in the original would be gone altogether, and unless someone else was providing her with the money to get by, it would be a plot hole.
Huh, didn't thought about that before. Yeah, how will they justify a nine-year old living alone with that kind of money and not have Social Services investigate this time? :confused:
Elle_White
2012-05-03, 20:56
I now think Graham will be in the movie. Because they only confirmed that the Leize twins wouldn't be in the film. If they're planning to leave Graham out, I think they would have mentioned it along with Leize Twins not being around. And he is part of the major source of conflict in the original. It would make sense, on many levels, to keep around. I think they'll have him somehow manipulating things from the behind the scenes.
You're confusing earlier in the episode, when she was practicing magic in the park, which was during the day. Vita attacked at night.
Well regardless, it would still make sense to me. The barrier was obviously large and the wolkenritter were not all at the same position. Even if Fate caught note of it, she wouldn't know exactly where to go. Nanoha only caught note of Vita, because Vita was heading in her direction and then attacked her.
Most likely she was with Lindy and I don't think she'd want Fate diving head first into some unknown entity to begin with...
Well regardless, it would still make sense to me. The barrier was obviously large and the wolkenritter were not all at the same position. Even if Fate caught note of it, she wouldn't know exactly where to go. Nanoha only caught note of Vita, because Vita was heading in her direction and then attacked her.
Most likely she was with Lindy and I don't think she'd want Fate diving head first into some unknown entity to begin with...
I think they'd be able to tell that it enveloped Nanoha's house. And all they would know was that a barrier went up. It would make sense for Fate to contact Nanoha and arrange for them to meet up, or do some sort of plan. And if Lindy and the Harleowns are there, then it sucks even more for Vita, to come up against Nanoha, Fate, Arf, Lindy, AND Chrono.
And remember, as of A's, Fate is now a Bureau Probationary Mage, and was sent in by Lindy along with Yuuno to find Nanoha. Even if they toss Yuuno out of this movie, we'd still need a reason why Lindy wouldn't change sending Fate to Nanoha.
Lindy does send Fate to Nanoha. It's just not a..."Oh no, barrier enveloped Nanohas house you better go dive into it, Fate!" After all, she is there to save Nanoha. Only a handful of minutes delayed.
Archon_Wing
2012-05-03, 23:59
It can take one minute for someone to say. "Damn this barrier is incredibly strong...it's gonna take a while to bypass."
Though honestly, there's really no need to rationalize this part. There's many reasons why they can have a delay and trying too hard to justify it would be too hard.
I mean even if the movie starts with Nanoha discovering and engaging Vita and getting help later, the narrative of the story isn't going to change much. No need to overthink. It's not like it's the first time the TSAB has messed up. :heh:
It's fairly trivial to place episode 1's events in 10 minutes and have a good fight scene in there, me thinks.
Also, Keroko brings up the interesting point about Nanoha's role has never been that central. This makes it a natural winner to make whatever movie coming after this, whether it be StrikerS based or something completely new to be Nanoha-centric.
sorry to interrupt.
The latest Magame issue have a short comic about the Anime Contents Expo event.The artist is Hasegawa.(NanoFateHayate in this comic are avatar for the VA casts.)
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/th_megami201206_aec_comic.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/?action=view¤t=megami201206_aec_comic.jpg)
I don't dispute that this is the way it is; but my view is that it shouldn't be this way. Nanoha herself has some interesting backstory in terms of her family and her friends. She's a fairly unique individual, being very mature for her age. It's one of the main things new people I show Nanoha to, show considerable disbelief at. So even though I like that maturity, I would prefer that they actually take some time to show why that is, and then fit in a bit of growth. They kinda did that in StrikerS with Nanoha becoming a mother to Vivio.
It can be about both Nanoha AND Fate. It doesn't have to be about one or the other. A good series will give some good development to all characters, even if they are secondaries; reference Vice in StrikerS.
Oh don't get me wrong, I agree it's a flaw of the series, but it's not one introduced by the movie. The movie merely enhanced the original flaw.
I think they'd be able to tell that it enveloped Nanoha's house. And all they would know was that a barrier went up. It would make sense for Fate to contact Nanoha and arrange for them to meet up, or do some sort of plan. And if Lindy and the Harleowns are there, then it sucks even more for Vita, to come up against Nanoha, Fate, Arf, Lindy, AND Chrono.
And remember, as of A's, Fate is now a Bureau Probationary Mage, and was sent in by Lindy along with Yuuno to find Nanoha. Even if they toss Yuuno out of this movie, we'd still need a reason why Lindy wouldn't change sending Fate to Nanoha.
Again, just say she's outside the barrier and it took a while to bust in.
You're really making a big deal out of a small, easily worked around problem here.
Somehow I have a feeling they will find a way to shaft Hayate (again) and focus on more Fate story :(
Though I think the dream sequence could be shortened a bit, and that the fights themselves could be rearranged fairly easily while still keeping the overall plot the same. It could be Fate vs. Signum, Vita + Shamal vs. Chrono and Lindy. But I doubt they will give Lindy combat time, she seems like a support type and with how pressed for time the movie seems to be, I don't think showing off her combat ability will be a wise use of movie time.
/tin foil hat
EDIT: As far as I know (I haven't watched all the previews yet), there's nothing that concretely states that the reuinion scene in the movie is actually a current reunion scene. It could be a flashback or one that happened a while back. Trailers are tricky things >:[
The dream sequence should just be scrapped altogether. It wasn't needed in the series, it isn't needed in a movie already short on precious screentime.
Tiresias
2012-05-04, 05:07
Yeah right, as if Tsuzuki would ever skip any scene belonging to Fate.
How long is the Movie supposed to be again?
Elle_White
2012-05-04, 05:10
I think the dream sequence was important in the series for Fate to feel like her own person. She'd been getting used to living her own life, instead just doing what others wanted of her, but she wasn't quite ready to make the final leap and join the Harlaown family. the dream sequence allows her to make that decision. If they cut it out in the movie, and I have a feeling they will, they'll just have her come to that decision in a different way.
The sequence was more fanservice than it was actual development. A glimpse in the "what if Fate was an actual part of the Testarossa family." It added nothing to Fate that the season itself hadn't told us beyond a final goodbye to her family, and ate up almost an entire episode.
I'd have rather the sequence had gone to Hayate (who, mind you, was in a similar dream subspace) and explain some of her backstory. You know, stuff actually relevant to the season.
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