You think Mystique, chey, and Narona were conservative? I remember debating a lot with Mystique when she was new to the forums, but I feel like these days we just agree all the time.
Gasp - did she turn me to her side without my realizing it?!
Anyway, I'm not sure how available Mystique is these days. I just recently traded emails with her, and I remember a few months ago I'd see her on Skype. (My wife and I were using Skype for video chatting, but have since moved on to a different service, so I haven't logged in for a while.) Want to have an email exchange?
Hell if I know, even I have had some trouble finding opportunities to earn myself some infractions these days, lol. I'd say it's a combination of factors; the recent excessive mod action probably had a part to play in squelching the conversation, and it seems like many of the more 'conservative' posters has dropped off the forum these days, I'd guess out of sheer frustration at constantly failing in these debates. I think GundamFan0083 was one of the last conservative holdouts in recent times, and it seems like even he had his balloon popped by me during the recent semantics spat over the afterlife thing.
Otherwise, I'd say it's mere attrition; I hardly see Mystique or cheyannew these days, and Narona has all but disappeared. There's been a few new names recently, but otherwise there just hasn't been many opportunities for debate, nor opponents to debate them with these days. Why do you think I put in that joke about reviving the Abortion thread?
On another note, I think it's my turn to ask for advice of a more... 18+ nature. When can we do that talk with Mystique again?
Frustrations aside, then, it sounds like your relationship is doing well and probably has a bright future ahead of it. I think you're doing all the right things, but just remember... always communicate! It can be really difficult - I mean, nobody wants to talk about potentially upsetting things when things are going well. But it's for the good of the relationship, long-term.
What's the deal with the forums these days? There don't seem to be many debate-type discussions around.
Well no, dumping her is not something I've ever considered, even now. This is mostly because of one thing; for all of her faults that I've mentioned, I've known for some time that they are all really the 'other side of the coin' when it comes to the qualities that I love in her. I suppose I did come off as frustrated when I mentioned those, but I personally think I've actually been handling it quite well. It's just that I haven't had anyone else so far to voice my thoughts to, and you just happened to be unlucky enough to be It. Besides, most of the things she turns a deaf ear to me to, are pretty much what a child would turn a deaf ear to a parent to.
You're probably right on the communication bit, though. I think I'll try to find time to sit her down for a talk about this issue, since the incident has pretty much blown over. And well, I have been doing exactly what you suggested when it comes to communication and taking things seriously, and in fact she has matured noticably as a person from when we first met. It's just that she could improve further, and it's been slow going. That's why I'm confident she will mature as a person in time; I guess my frustration is just something that'll happen to anyone going a couple of years into a relationship.
On another note, I think the outcome of my scrap with GundamFan0083 was a pretty straightforward one; he already lost the debate from that point onward, and just had too much pride at stake to admit it, thus the ad hominems and baseless rejections after that. You should've seen how much positive rep I got from making a mockery of his idiocy.
You probably know what I'm going to say, but I'll say it anyway: communication is the foundation of a strong relationship. If you feel that she doesn't really listen unless she's wronged you, that seems like something worth discussing. Maybe she doesn't realize that she needs to do more, or she doesn't realize that it's what would put you at ease. To say that she's child-like, or that she only seems to absorb things when she screws up, makes it seem like you're feeling pretty frustrated. Communication can defuse that.
I suppose it also depends on what you want, and what your long-term goals are. No relationship will be perfect, but is this the way that you want your relationship to be? Can you see it going for the rest of your life like this? Your girlfriend may mature with time, but why wait it out passively? Both partners in a relationship impact on each other, and ideally they help each other to grow. By prompting her to communicate better and take things more seriously, you'd be encouraging that growth and maturity in her. The key is how to do it without sounding like you're nagging or criticizing.
I'm with you on the fact that her reasons for marriage aren't that great. For certain, getting married really ups the ante in terms of commitment, but I really doubt that it does much if the commitment wasn't there to begin with. These days, it seems like there are just as many divorces as there are marriages, too; I'm not sure if it's similar in Singapore, but marriage isn't really the permanent thing that it used to be viewed as. Infidelity is also surprisingly common. Just having a wedding band on your finger won't prevent other people from flirting with you, nor will it make you a saint in terms of your commitment. You definitely have the right idea.
In light of all of that, why are you still with her? I'm not advocating that you leave her, but given the frustration and pain she's caused, and the fact that you feel that you're the more committed one, what makes you keep putting in the work? Have you considered dropping her and trying for someone else?
You really have it out for GundamFan0083, huh? I remember that discussion that you linked to... it was a pretty weird one.
1) Hmmm, I guess it's mostly because of this incident. Otherwise, most of the time it just seems like I'm putting in most of the effort in maintaining the relationship, and she's just going along for the ride. I'm fine with that most of the time, since that's been how it is since the beginning of the relationship, but I do sometimes wish she'd let me know one way or other that I am indeed important to her. It really is this incident which has made me doubt whether I am as important to her as I deserve to be.
And yes, I haven't really mentioned it to her. I've been with her long enough to know that, in many ways, she's still just a kid, and is prone to let words go in one ear and out the other just like one. I'm really just waiting for when she fucks up one way or another... because I've learned that those are the times when she's actually most able to absorb something.
2) In this case, I think the fact that I was the one who pursued her had something to do with it. In fact, she told me that she never felt the same way for me that she did for her ex, and I was fine with that, because everything she told me about her previous relationship had all the signs of an adolescent infatuation. Interestingly enough, the same signs also applies to a lesser degree with the incident, particularly since as of the last week or so, she's pretty much gotten over him.
On my part, I have made efforts at the beginning to put some spice in the relationship, but nothing I tried really worked, she never really tried that hard in the first place, and our relationship kind of settled into a comfortable lifestyle pretty soon. This is another reason why I think she's still just as much of a kid as she looks; it's like she has yet to outgrow that phase, and I'm really just waiting for her to grow up and realise what a child she was back then.
I'm quite confident she'd grow up to be a wonderful woman, and I really just need to wait and guide her into blossoming into that woman until then. Which is also why I've been denying her attempts into pushing me into marrying her as soon as possible; she's only doing so because her parents are pushing her into it in turn, and also because she thinks that's the best way for her to resist future temptations similar to this one. Horrible reasons, those. -.-
Heh, my wife is the same way with regard to doing special things. For us, doing something special is probably seemingly more ordinary to most people - maybe I'll buy her some food that she really likes without consulting her first (never stuff that's too expensive, or else she'll get upset), or if she makes a mess and intends to clean it later, I'll clean it before she does... little things like that. The goal is really just to show the other person that you're thinking about them, that you listen to them, and that you care for them. And of course, doing that means showing her that you appreciate her in a manner that she'll like. Why didn't God give us the ability to read minds?
Ideally that goes both ways, though, and from what you've written it seems like you have some resentment building up. Given what you've described, I don't blame you. Two questions for you:
1) You mention that you feel like you're being taken for granted. Is she doing anything specifically that makes you feel that way? If she's not doing anything outwardly negative and the issue is that she's not giving as much to the relationship as you are, what could she do to show you that she appreciates you? And then the big question: have you mentioned it to her, that you feel this way?
2) You mention that she talked quite a bit about her ex and the passionate relationship that they had. That must be tough to hear - nobody wants to feel like they're being compared to someone else, or like their significant other is focused on another person. But regarding that, do you know or have any ideas as to why she kept bringing it up? Did you both try to do anything to bring more passion into the relationship?
I don't mean to goad you on with the relationship, though. I had a somewhat similar experience with my first relationship, and it was pretty painful to hear about ex-boyfriends and witness weird behavior with other men. Eventually, I ended the relationship. The difference is that my relationship then was measured in the span of weeks, while yours is already on a years scale. I'm hoping that yours can be repaired, since it has demonstrated lasting power. Still, your own personal happiness is just as critical as hers if the relationship is to be a good one. I'm sorry that you're going through this.
Heh... do something more romantic or out of the ordinary, huh? I would, except the last few times I went out of my way to do something like that, the feedback I got from her was something to the effect of it not being really all that necessary. While that straightforward, non-demanding attitude does makes things easier for me in general, it also means I have far fewer options as well as rather less motivation to do something like that again. It just doesn't seem worth the effort when she's the kind of girl who'd prefer I didn't spend money to get her something that's not to her tastes anyway.
In fact, she's always mentioning how I pamper her and treat her so well in general. In a sense, I feel like she's the one taking me for granted, and could stand to show me some appreciation occasionally. Sometimes, I'd even thought that I should treat her a little less nicely, if only so she'll realise that she needs to buck up a little on her end.
I dunno. Even after that incident was resolved, there was a period of time when she kept harping over how she felt like she missed the kind of passion she had with her ex, and which never really existed in our relationship. Not that I didn't disagree with that, but that was massively irritating, and I basically said I'd let her have the open relationship she wants, because she wouldn't shut up about it otherwise. I know that wasn't the best way to handle it, but at least it did stop her continung on that thread.
Well, I suppose I should have seen that self-centred, insensitive attitude coming, it's only the natural flip side to her child-like personality after all. That immaturity is really what's keeping me from taking the relationship to the next level; I admit to being quite indulgent as boyfriends go, but even I have a limit to my patience.
I suppose you're right in that I shouldn't be taking the 'no second chances' approach, though. I do intend to forgive her, because I've known for some time that she's still pretty much a child who could use some more life experience, and I forgave her this time because I saw the whole thing as a good life lesson for her. And really, I was using the 'no second chances' approach to foster a sense of crisis in her, and make her realise that her bad choices will net her some unwelcome consequences if she doesn't learn anything from this incident. You'll probably right that I need to cut her a little more slack there though, since like you said, it might happen again.
Well, to start with, good on you for the job change. It takes a fair amount of courage to leave something stable and risk going into something new, especially given that there's no guarantee that what you shift into will truly fit you better. I hope that the change has been beneficial for you so far.
As to your relationship, that must have been really rough. I agree with you that what most people perceive as "passion" in a relationship is generally that "newness" period, the first three to five months of a relationship. I think it's still possible to have passion even beyond that, but it changes in terms of what it means and how often it is felt (or what it is felt over). I think you're absolutely right that passion and love aren't the same thing.
I'm not sure that I have any good advice on this situation. I think that you did the right thing by speaking up about it. In my case, I was the one who made my wife uncomfortable by spending time with female friends. While my wife could probably give you some better advice, what I did was to massively cut back on activities that made her uncomfortable, and tried to do more to show her that she was my focus. There were also some self-confidence and self-perception issues (she didn't realize just how beautiful she really is, and I think that contributed to her feeling threatened), but the big point is that I care about her, and if there's something that makes her uncomfortable then I want to change it so that she's comfortable. Ideally your girlfriend would not only modify her activities, but also up her level of devotion to you, at least temporarily, as a reassurance. If she hasn't, it may not occur to her to do so.
You can take matters into your own hands, though. Instead of dwelling on this and possibly keeping a suspicious eye on her behavior, how about trying to refresh the relationship? Do something more romantic than usual, or just do something out of the ordinary. Show her that you appreciate her. In doing so, I think you'll make yourself feel better about the relationship, and hopefully it will also inspire her to reciprocate (which would definitely make you feel better about it). Doing things out of the ordinary here and there to show appreciation and love is something that would ideally happen somewhat regularly, but I think that many of us come to take our partner for granted, or just assume that they're aware of the love that we feel.
Beyond that, hmm... I had always figured that physical infidelity would be immediate grounds for termination of the relationship, even if for no reason other than principle. However, what you're describing sounds more like "emotional infidelity." While I'm a believer in the "look but don't touch" principle (that is, it's OK to feel attraction for someone else and even stare at them for a bit, but it can't go beyond that), that doesn't really cover your situation. No matter what other people say about relationships, you ultimately need to do what's right by you first, and by your partner a very close second. Ideally the two would overlap, or even more ideally, both partners would mutually put the other's needs first.
I just don't like the thought that you now have a "you're out on the second strike" idea in the relationship. By having a condition for termination of the relationship, how can you really focus on growing and strengthening it?
The advice that I really want to give you is to forgive her, accept that the vast majority of people experience doubts and confusion with the path they've chosen in all aspects of life (including relationships), and that this was hers. It might even happen again. Yet, what is your ultimate goal for her? Assuming that it is for her to be happy, would you work toward her happiness even if it meant that she ended up with someone instead of you? If so, then it seems that there's no choice but to forgive her now and even if it happens again, and to continue to work on your own relationship with her, hopefully strengthening it to the point where she doesn't feel much (if any) attraction to other men. The only reason I'm not saying that as my first response to you is because that sort of attitude can lead to your own misery, or put you into a situation ripe for abuse. You need to protect your own interests, and part of that does involve knowing when to tell her that she needs to stop, or when to end the relationship. Ideally (ideally, ideally...) you wouldn't ever need to focus on those sorts of things, though, because your girlfriend would have you as her #1 priority and would be in tune with your needs and feelings.
I guess you're still mulling it over. What ever you do, try to stay positive. If you ever want to talk more about it, feel free to message me - even if I can't give the best advice, you can at least bounce things off of me if you want. I hope things will turn out well for the two of you!
Oh, quite a bit. I changed my job, as it turned out that the previous job wasn't quite that suitable for me after all. But, that's neither here nor there.
The other thing I haven't quite been comfortable with putting on the Dating thread, is the fact that I almost lost my relationship with my girlfriend at the beginning of this year. What happened was, she was flirting with one of her colleagues for half a year, and only spilt the beans of my existence to him in December. I knew about the flirting and allowed it (mostly since I figured she needed all the help in her first job that she could get), so that wasn't what bothered me about it. What really got me was when she confessed she denied my existence to the colleague, and only mentioned it now because she was afraid I'll be angry about it. Yeah, hit to the gut, that one.
So we talked about it, and she also confessed that she didn't feel the kind of passion for me that she did for her ex, and which she does feel a little of for the colleague. Apparently, passion was quite important to her, although it was less so for me since I figured it's always a temporary thing in any relationship anyway. To make things short, I had to teach her that passion and love isn't always the same thing, and after she thought about it, she decided I was more important to her, so she ended things with the colleague.
Well, I do love her still, and it seems she does still love me as well. So I decided she was just being as much of an immature little kid as she looks, someone who needs to make her own mistakes. So, I forgave her this time, in the expectation that she would learn from her mistakes, and avoid them in the future.
I guess it does still bother me somewhat on a certain level though. I never wanted to be that boyfriend who stops their girl from socialising freely with other guys, but I'm starting to see where they're coming from. Also, I would have been quite happy to marry her prior to this incident, but in the light of her immaturity, I am reconsidering doing so as early as I originally planned to do.
As a matter of fact, I'm still not too sure how to handle this relationship from now on, apart from the fact that I know I'd straight-out dump her if she commits the same mistake again. So, guess I could use a few tips. I just didn't think it would be right to dump something this depressing on the thread.