True. Besides C.C.'s name, I'm particularly interested in Sayako's fate. I hope she's on the orange grove with Jeremiah.
I think it's the same castle. Look at this and this. To Lelouch? Hm, that's a possible interpretation.
Yeah, that's also true. I like this one as well since it reflects C.C.'s transformation.
If they show it somewhere in the picture dramas, that would be interesting.
Yep, it's pretty much an open ending unless they decide do something in the future. If she said that line, it would have definitely been the strongest one she said in R2 and I guess that's why they originally chose it. However, I can see why they wouldn't like it because that would have been a plus for LXC if they used it in that scene. It was Narona's speculation for Kallen to say her line to C.C. coincidentally as well.
I PMed you a link. Yes, FMP, not FMA. C'mon, you would. You watched Fumoffu as well right? A Code Geass one would be just as funny. The recent sound episode and others like when C.C. and Kallen busted into a cosmetics factory fits the theme. An Ashford version where everyone is alive would be funny, but looking at the epilogue, stories after it would be funny as well.
There are also the little time skips here and there that allow us to imagine what would happen. As long as they don't confirm Lelouch's death or other things then I could live with that, but perhaps some things like C.C.'s name and perhaps what happened to characters like Sayako and Li would be good.
Was it? I saw the same setting, but not her clearly.I'm not sure if that is exactly it since she didn't actually throw it in the show and I would have to wonder what that would mean at all. Some have taken it as a possible sign to Lelouch, but I don't know.
Well, there wouldn't have been enough time and I can't recall many times you see something like that happen in an anime ending. That's a possible interpretation as are many others. I like that one though.
Yes, it could have meant that completely. I think that was the last time we saw the king piece though it would have been interesting possibly to see it again.
Alright, I guess I understand that. It may be partially up to interpretation then since if you are a LXC fan and believe Lelouch is alive, you could imagine them being together now. I don't think they made it entirely clear at this point that either was the pairing for the show, but with the open ending I could imagine something eventually happening. Hmm, that's an interesting point and the term for love used by Kallen in the original was much too strong I think. And I have seen some of the reactions. I suppose it is sort of odd that her most important line was used there.
Listened? No, I can't find it anywhere. I've read the summaries though and I agree that it is absolutely hilarious if not a bit odd with the way some of them are acting. I miss the old banter back and forth. I like when he is a store clerk and when C.C. is a Kaitou. And don't you mean FMP? I don't think Fullmetal Alchemist (FMA) had a comedy series. I'm not sure whether I would want something like that or not.
Yeah, lack of details for some things is good for the open ending aspect. Yep, it wouldn't hurt if they filled some of the gaps with some other sources like the picture dramas.
Oh, the ending picture with C.C. looking over the hill. It's a picture from her past and it was in the memory museum in Ep. 15, but perhaps it was symbolic to show that Nunnally's crane flew to C.C.? Nunnally in the OP was shown throwing the crane from the castle that C.C. is looking at.
Yeah, what happened to Lelouch's body is something that would have been evidence in whether Lelouch lived or not, but they decided to leave that out. Maybe she was praying to the gods to forgive Lelouch for his sins and also for good fortune in whatever fate that awaits him?
Ah, the close up zoom to the a giant king piece. Since the sky was looking bloody, perhaps it was to show how he captured the world in that scene? Lelouch did say he would make more blood flow and conquer the world before executing his plan.
I disagree that either pairing was meant to be clearly displayed as canon with the current script. Reading Koshimizu's post on the possibility that Kallen's line was toned down makes me think they didn't intend on intensifying the romance subplot for the finale, which sets up an ambiguous end. That, or they figured that this line would have lead to a negative reception by Kallen fans if they used it in that scene, which seems to be the case looking at the replies to Koshimizu's post.
Have you listened to the new sound episode yet? If you haven't, you'll like it since C.C. and Lelouch who's with Rivalz are hilarious in one of the tracks. Here's a summary. It was surprising too. That cover was deceiving since I expected Lelouch and Kallen to be messing around along with her character song. This makes me want them to make a lighthearted series like FMA Fumoffu.
1) Of course, maybe the lack of details is a good thing since the theories regarding Lelouch living involve assuming certain things. Concrete details would likely ruin it. Still, something like the origin of Geass wouldn't hurt.
2) It certainly is possible, though I worry greatly about what might be revealed if they covered something like that. I don't have a problem with them leaving it open.
3) I guess he did though I wonder if that might be a bad thing for some reason. I don't have much of a problem with that.
4) Or a Picture Drama possibly, but that makes me worry.
5) I agree that it just seems much simpler than Nunnally having some weird ability that comes out of no where.
6)His lack of appearence there makes me think he died, but the fact the mech is there could mean otherwise since I think Li is the only one who can really use the Shen Hu.
7)Well, those two couples weren't really delved into very much at all while OugixViletta was. It may be partly that they lacked time, but they never had much time in either season devoted to them.
8) Not really sure what Rivalz or Nina are doing though.
9) Hmm, I suppose that would work. His reaction to Zero made me laugh for some reason.
10) Oh, I meant the ending song where the last image they showed was the one of C.C. looking out over a hill.
Yes, you have a point there. I'm just fine with it being up to us in the end since it is clear that some people like to think he is alive while others seem to think he is dead. In the end, an open ending actually works out the best for everyone.
Yes, I agree. He would not be a part of anything anymore, but would truly be isolated with the possible exception of C.C. and perhaps Jeremiah. That could certainly be possible as well, though I think he would have revived within a day of being stabbed if he is immortal. What was done with his body is something to consider. I suppose it is possible that C.C. was not expecting to see him again, but I do wonder why she was praying.
I suppose that Lelouch was the only person to ever make her want to live, which seems rather evident by how much she seems to have changed from her contact with him. True, and she does seem to be doing all right now.
Hmm, always possible I guess. What about when Lelouch is giving his whole "World, obey me" speech? I thought I saw a weird image of the king piece with a red sky behind it.
As do I and I think that is an excellent point.
I find it funny that the pairing issue was never really addressed at all. In the end, it seems that LXK was probably the canon pairing of the show which many seem confident to believe. I could make some sort of case for C.C. based on how I view the ending, but it might be pointless.
2) Maybe we could get something that decribes what happened in the 1 month time skip and the 2 month time skip in the Picture Drama. Yeah, they just want to keep the fans talking.
3) There was a 2 month time skip, so Lelouch did return back like he promised. Of course, they didn't show what happened when he came back and left it to our imagination.
4) Yep, we'll have to hope in ends up on some source whether it be a magazine, interview, etc.
5) I think Lelouch having the Code would be a simpler explanation for it. If it's Nunnally having a strange ability, that's rather odd for her to have it.
6) We saw his KMF when Nunnally met with Ougi, but I wonder why he didn't show up for the wedding. Yeah, this is the problem. We're left to interpret ourselves because they couldn't fit these characters in the epilogue.
7) I meant we didn't see what exactly became of Cornelia x Guilford or Toudou x Chiba in the epilogue like Ougi x Viletta. It ties in with above where they lacked time.
9) I think the only reasonable explanation was that he told Schneizel to follow the other Zero that shows up before he bound him in chains. The Geass should logically still command him to follow Lelouch and view this other Zero as an imposter if he didn't.
10) Yep. She's the last one on screen and waves goodbye with her Cheese-kun.
This could be one of those things left to one's interpretation. The zoom might or might not be something, but if they didn't that type of zoom, it wouldn't spark suspicions about Lelouch's fate. Well, they could have confirmed him as clearly in that scene, but chose not to. So, perhaps it's for us to choose.
Taking on immortality could also make sense if you want to to believe he's alive. She did not want to bestow this on him and it would mean Lelouch would not be part of society anymore. The other possibility is that no one knew Lelouch would be able to revive. Not even himself. After the timeskip for the epilogue, which seems to be quite a few months looking at Viletta's pregnancy stage, Lelouch met up with C.C. again.
Marianne was never able to make C.C. rethink about living though. Perhaps it was like a stronger version of her relationship with Kallen, except Marianne teases C.C. Still, neither of them got C.C. to have second thoughts on continuing her life. Yeah, it would be sad for Nunnally, but Lelouch's plan forced him to be unable to live in society.
Perhaps to show where he would end up (with C.C.)? I believe that was the last scene they used to show the black king besides Lelouch holding one when he talked to Schneizel.
I like the King Arthur comparison. Nothing lasts forever and the human race isn't a perfect one.
After a bit more time, I do like the ending a bit more though it does suffer from some shortcomings.
Lelouch: I agree with this completely since Lelouch was able to essentially accomplish what should have been impossible. Nunnally also isn't really depending on him anymore and is relying on herself more.
Suzaku: Well, he isn't entirely alone since I think Nunnally knows who he is. She would be the only person he could ever perhaps act like himself around and it would have to be in private. We do see that his perceptions have changed in that he is now living instead of trying to die like you said.
C.C.: Yes, I suppose this is true as well though if Lelouch is dead then she would really be alone and I can't help but wonder if after a long enough time she might fall into the same old habits and unfortunately it is likely he is dead. I think that the scene of her praying may have demonstrated something since for someone like her to actually pray and cry like she did I think shows a great change.
Kallen: She may never have recieved an answer directly from him, but I do think she realized his intentions for saying that as well as what he did. She seems to be doing all right in any case.
-Unless Taniguchi or Okouchi reveal some info through interviews, I doubt we'll ever know the whole story on Geass.
-This is certainly an odd one. There is a small possibility that we could see a Picture Drama that features the two of them, but I'm not sure. The lack of dealing with this is one of those little things that promote the idea Lelouch lived I suppose.
-Another odd thing and when you consider what the plan was and how C.C. must have known what it was, even having that promise seems odd.
-This one I just don't get though the last time we ever saw Lelouch and C.C. together on screen was 24 and he is the only one who knew her name. Maybe we'll see it revealed in an interview or something.
-This is another odd one. Now, we have seen that Nunnally seems able to discern whether people are telling the truth or not, but that seems to be when she holds their hand and has them answer a question. The case here is different of course. Now it could be that they are simply so close that she could see this or something of the sort. The other explanation is that he has a Code and we had what happened sometime with C.C. occur here though it was not the same as those times with C.C.
-This annoyed me very much. Li and Sayako simply vanished into thing air. Li I could possibly understand since he might be dead, but Sayako is simply confusing. We saw two pics of Gino with him at the wedding and him with Tian Zi. Maybe he is serving her or something or perhaps he decided to go back to Ashford since he seemed to enjoy it.
-There were other minor couples?
-Well, they seem to be doing alright either way.
-Yeah, this was sort of odd. Maybe he just accepted it or something?
-Well, I don't know.
-I agree. Waste of time as was the ending I think. I wonder why that image of C.C. was last.
Besides bringing better closure to her subplot in that it could resolve the contract, the promise, and perhaps give a bit more meaning to C.C.'s words at the end, I think that it sort of serves as punishment in its own way since he essentially is dead to the world and will watch over it as a sort of guardian. And it would make that line from S1 true then and I do like the idea personally. I don't think he can have both, though that would be interesting. And I guess some people think that if he had a Code, he would essentially be R.R.=R2 though I would think L.L. would make more sense.
I guess she is pretty close to it, but I'm still not sure if she was just talking to herself or not. Someone said she was speaking to Lelouch in the past tense. I'm not sure if that zoom really says anything. And what am I supposed to see? I'm not sure if they would do something like that since who would actually be able to see that clearly? Honestly, I want to believe he is alive but the evidence for it is rather slim. If they don't confirm he is dead then I suppose it can be open for us to choose.
Something I am curious about is what exactly C.C. was praying for. Was she praying for the plan to succeed? For some reason, that seems odd to me.
Yeah, I guess, but it still feels like she would be alone. Talking with Marianne didn't seem to help her much. I guess I just like the idea of him being alive. Would that make the sadness and pain Nunnally went through too cruel though?
I guess it was, but we thought it might have been something else. I don't know what could be behind the placement there.
I found the ending to be fitting for the main four:
- Lelouch, who wanted to create a world for Nunnally and eventually expanding his view to include everyone else, cannot live in it as the price. The people that were forsaken along this journey... their deaths weren't in vain now that Lelouch has brought the world a brighter future.
- Suzaku, who sought death, has to live out his life as an ally of justice behind a mask. He is forced to sacrifice his personal happiness and identity to maintain this world.
- C.C., who also sought death and discarded her humanity, found meaning to life and regained her humanity thanks to Lelouch. I'm quite pleased they went with this route instead of doing something silly like killing this subplot in Ep. 21 or letting her become a child in a 16-year old body. I think that interpretation I gave you for Ep. 24 was the correct one now that we're looking at it in hindsight.
- Kallen, who wanted to know what Lelouch's feelings were towards her, will never receive a direct answer. However, she's happy through her own interpretation after realizing what transpired when he died. She also understood Suzaku more during their battle. She is once again living with her mother and can go to Ashford with her real personality.
Some of my disappointments:
- Lack of specifics on the origin of Geass.
- Lelouch's and C.C.'s contract left for the viewer to decide.
- The promise by Lelouch to C.C. is also left for the viewer to decide.
- C.C.'s name not given.
- Lack of an explanation on why Nunnally could see Lelouch's memories on touch.
- Skipping some characters in the epilogue due to time constraints. (i.e. Llyod, Cecile, Xingke, Sayako, Gino)
- No solid conclusions for other minor couples besides Ougi x Viletta like Guilford x Cornelia and Toudou x Chiba.
- Misc. minor unresolved subplots like Millay and Rivalz are unknown to have been de-Geassed or not.
- Awkwardness with Schneizel. Schneizel followed Lelouch because he knew his identify was Zero. I wonder what was his Geass command saying to him when he saw another Zero.
- OSTs omitted like Lullaby of M and Sensibility.
- I thought they should have skipped the OP.
On the interpretations, I basically have two that probably has been talked about:
If Lelouch is alive, I suppose this would bring more closure to C.C.'s subplot. If he somehow has the Code along with C.C., then that would mean Lelouch as the warlock and C.C. as the witch came true. Wanderers for eternity. If he has gained a Code and kept his Geass, then he has accomplished Code Geass. Even though Lelouch is alive in this scenario, he can only watch the world he created but never enjoy it with everyone else. However, since he is with C.C., both of them won't be lonely.
C.C.'s pretty close to the front of the wagon when you look at this and then this. They're evil for doing this type of zoom. There was also this pic if you want to keep the conspiracy theory going.
If Lelouch is not alive, then communication through the World of C seems like an alternative for them to still be connected and for C.C. to remain upbeat. Maybe Lelouch was also able to reunite with Shirley and Euphie in this scenario, but no way to confirm this speculation. So both of them aren't technically lonely this way.
I think the bloody chess king in Ep. 16 was foreshadowing this episode, but what do you think of the black king chess piece in this scene meant? That was a curious placement.