Hyouka's backgrounds and lighting/photography didn't immediately stand out as better than Tari Tari's (both 2012 shows) to me and I considered that a best case scenario for KyoAni, so I said it was plausible that you were right about PA and KyoAni's respective strenghts. On review… Hyouka's lighting and photography is better, just really subtle.
Now that you've explained a bit more what you mean, I'll say that generally I think PA Works has a more nuanced visual vocabulary, whereas Kyoto tends to go for a bit more embellished look in terms of employing coloured lighting, heat hazes, more pronounced soft focuses, giving scenery a "painted" look*, etc.
*Yes, I'm aware True Tears had painted look backgrounds. Something like HSI not so much though. Main thing I recall about HSI's backgrounds was some impressive textures for materials like glass, hardwood, etc.
Apologies in advance for distracting you from you busy schedule
Didn't say PAW was better. I just personally like the look of PAW series more because of their focus on backgrounds and digital photography rather fluidity gives a more "poetic" feel to it. Similar to Makoto Shinkai actually, whose movies actually does not have anywhere near the best "animation" (frames, fluidity), but whose backgrounds, attention to detail, digital photography and processing are pretty much unmatched. Btw, to clear all doubt, I'm talking purely about visuals and aesthetics and not bringing into the equation story, premise, character depth or anything like that (because if we did, Kyoani gets absolutely crushed on)
I personally think Hyouka is Kyoani's best work in the visual department and I would even say if you put it head to head with any of PA Work's productions, it will beat it. Yes, it was that good to me. The attention to detail, the fluidity, the expressiveness and movement of the characters. And best of all it felt like they even borrowed elements from PA Works books with their melancholic mono-no-aware evoking backgrounds and digital photography. It's like they took the best elements of PA Works and combined it with the top notch animation and fluidity skills they already have.
In converse, I have to disagree with Tari Tari. Despite me loving the series, I thought for PAW standards, it was below average. Me and Archon Wing joke that Tari Tari had reject character designs and background art from Hanasaku Iroha... and to be honest I think it has an element of truth in it. There wasn't really a scene from a visual point of view where I was wow'd by and I can tell that from a production point of view it was fairly rushed. I'd say it's the second worst looking PAW series after Another.
Best looking shows for PA Works for me are Hanasaku Iroha, True Tears and Uchouten Kazoku. In that order too.
Hmmm... Air and Kanon. It's been way too long since I watched those so I can't exactly say. I'll take your word for it though since you take photography as a hobby.
On another note, despite K-on S2 and Nichijou being really fluid I did not like the visuals in that one bit. K-on character designs were way too generic and blobby, whilst Nichijou was essentially animating "cartoon figures", even if Nichijou is arguably Kyoani's most impressive demonstration when it comes to fluidity in animation. It's like akin to animating stick figures well... doesn't mean shit to me because they are stick figures and not appealing to look at.
While I'm not sure I would agree that PA Works is better overall due to how much I think Hyouka benefitted from how expressive the characters were, I find your opinion on the strengths of KyoAni and PA Works generally plausible if we compare, say, Hyouka and Tari Tari - I just don't have time to do a detailed analysis right now.
Things get interesting if you try and compared something like Air TV or Kanon 2006 to a PA Works show though - those shows are a lot more stylized in terms of lighting, colours, and scenery than something like Hyouka or Tari Tari, and because of it they still look damn impressive today.
(Lighting/colours/contrast and the post-processing thereof can be a pretty big deal in cosplay photography too. There's some shows I've gotten that I absolutely love because of such factors, but I'm not nearly as consistently good at it as I'd like.)
You know when I said I like the look for PA Works better than Kyoani. I think I found the correct technical words.
Kyoto Animation has overall the best "animation" - frames and fluidity. PA Works though has the best background art, post processing, lighting and bloom effects and digital photography. TV side of things for both of course.
Aww yeh. I feel like I deserve a medal in the digital graphics/animation field!
Ok, convince me to keep watching Nagi no Asu Kara because I've pretty much ran out of patience. I tried implementing the "its a PA works show, you have to watch it" into my head, but it's insufficient now. And "its a Okada show" is more a detriment than a positive these days
I'm being factitious. I did know he was a VN player - I recall the two of us disagree pretty strongly on whether Ever 17's true route is good enough to make up for the fact it drags mid VN. (Ever 17 requires you to play all four regular routes before you can play the true route and there's just too much similar material among the four regular routes.) To be fair though, I don't think his taste in VNs is that moe heavy either.
Boner in the heart does sound funny, but personally I tend to go for "you feel warm and fuzzy inside, then melt". Also, despite moe meaning a fairly specific feeling, I personally feel the shows that do moe the best are those that compliment their moe by effectively capturing other emotions and sensations. Hence why I love stuff like EF and Iriya so much.
(If and when I get around to writing my novel, it'll be interesting to see how my moe fandom manifests aside from having a petite kitsune-girl character. I do know I do have a bit of a tendency towards lengthy, introspective dialogues - think that might be influenced by the stuff I watch?)
Ai is a very expressive character. She also has a bit of a puppy eyes look. Maybe you're just having some trouble accepting that you like a character who hasn't had much screentime, let alone development.
Funny enough, Reck doesn't hate moe. Did you know he's a VN player? He's telling me to play all these VNs and I pretty much autoreply with "CBF" because I don't wanna waste 50 hours or whatever .
Good moe is like cure to cancer. It gives you this really satisfying feeling and brings a smile to your face. Someone on youtube referred to moe as "getting a boner in your heart". I lold. And that is why I'm a fanboy of PA Works. A lot of their female characters tick off my moe alarm. Unfortunately they need to work on their guys...
Talking about moe, Ai from the latest Kyoukai ep was adorable as f***. I still can't fathom why I like her.
Well, that's because Reckoner is an uncultured cretin who doesn't understand that moe is a superior, advanced art form and making dumb FPSes about Badass McBadass saving AMERICA is not.
I used to occasionally play FPSes online but since I entered university in 2005 for time reasons I've relegated it to playing at the occassional LAN party only, so I pretty much missed MW1 multiplayer wise. And even before that I was never a particularly serious player. I did play a bit of Counterstrike back in high school but preferred Battlefield 1942 (particularly with the Desert Combat mod) and Command and Conquer: Renegade.
Stuff I've tried at LAN parties… I did some 6 on 6 COD1 at one point around 2006 and enjoyed it quite a bit. I did try MW1 but we didn't have the player count to make it worthwhile at the time. I also think I might have found it too fast and "twitch" for my taste, much as I found BF3 when I tried it recently. Though it's possible my problem is I'm a guy who plays FPSes at a few LANs a year going up against guys who attend my LANs but also play online outside them.
Anyway, in that case I can see your "same damn game" evaluation making sense as I'm not sure there's been a major shake up of the COD multiplayer formula since MW1, just tune ups. The ex-COD guys at Respawn, on the other hand, do appear to be trying to do something a bit different from COD.
BTW, as I mentioned to Triple_R I'm going to be winding down my PM and VM conversatios over the coming days, need to seriously concentrate on schoolwork, at least until I've finished the exam for my toughest course in early December and possibly until I'm through my other courses too. Because one of my courses this semester is hardcore mode.
Pocarisweat: Outfox took offence to me comparing Kyoani to Call of Duty games.
Reckoner: I would too.
Reckoner: It's a disgrace to say that Kyoani is even remotely good to Call of Duty.
CoD1-3: Pre K-on Kyoani.
CoD4 (Modern Warfare 1): Hyouka
Everything in between: Kyoani's shitalogue
CoD4 was actually pretty damn good (multiplayer) and it was pretty much the cause that knocked off counterstrike as the go-to FPS game from then on. I clocked at least a 100hours on CoD4 multiplayer.
Hmm... at this point, I'm shipping towards Setsuna. Something about slightly obsessive and jealous girls makes me feel attracted to them. Notice my waifu Yuasa Hiromi falls into the same category :3. But it doesn't really matter because I like Touma a lot too. And the MC. Heck I love everything about WA2 from the atmosphere, to the characters, to the music to, to the visuals (minus some lol still frames) and heck even some of the fanservice. There was a scene towards the end of episode 4 of Setsuna in the shower, it looked like she reaching "downstairs" and implied she was going to masturbate. I kid you not! Or maybe I just have a dirty mind .
My girlfriend is really into White Album 2 right now. I like it but not to the extent I like something like EF or Hyouka as it doesn't cater to my "tastes" quite as well as those shows did.
I started as a Setsuna fan but I've since flip flopped to Touma. My girlfriend was surprised I didn't go for Touma to begin with since her personality is very similar to one of my favourite VN characters ever, Tsugumi from Ever 17.
You keep comparing KyoAni shows to Call of Duty games - does that make Yamakan and Ordet the equivalent to Respawn?
(That actually is a wrinkly in the analogy, BTW... Infinity Ward bled a lot of staff to Respawn after Modern Warfare 2 came out.)
Anyway, I'm not sure what I think of the analogy. Allow me to summarize the Infinity Ward CoD games briefly:
COD 1 and 2: Makes the player feel like a cog in a war machine that could chew them up any second.
Modern Warfare: Feels pretty similar, except instead of WWII you have jingoistic Americans kicking a hornet's nest and creating a chaotic situation that could kill your character. Which considering it was released during the Bush presidency, felt pretty fresh and relevant at the time.
Modern Warfare 2-3, Ghosts (relying on media coverage for MW3 onward here): OMG those dastardly villians managed to find a way to bring the great superpower, AMERICA to its KNEES!!!! AMERICA is under ATTACK!!!! And only you, BADASS McBADASS and your team of BIG DAMN HEROES can SAVE AMERICA!!!
In other words, I don't think Infinity Ward (or what's left of it, anyway) has ruined the series by doing the same thing over and over. They've ruined the series by doubling down on a really crappy and honestly dumb direction for it.
The Kyoto analogy only really works if you take K-On (which came out in 2009 - same as Modern Warfare 2) as the turning point and ignore the "against the grain of the era" productions like Lucky Star, Disappearance, and Hyouka that don't fit the pattern. Or in the alternative, I guess you could consider Hyouka the last hurrah for KyoAni, but I it's only been like a year since then so it feels a bit early to judge for me. Although I suppose their releasing three fairly low-key moe shows since can be paralleled to Activision's insistence on having a new COD every year.