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Glorious Asylum of Magnificent TAKdom for Beneficial Discussion of Random Shenanigans
Macross Frontier Shipping War 2012!!
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Macross Frontier Shipping War 2012!!
Yeah, I miss my fellow Skullfaerie comrades back in the days.
@Magnus: She appeared first but was of very little use in your argument considering she did absolutely nothing but sing. She didn't get attached to either of the other main characters in any way. That is why I considered her a secondary character until Episode 5, because after that episode, she was constantly there and interacting with the other two main characters.
He never took her seriously in the beginning nor up to even Episode 10. He only took her seriously after Episode 12. But up until he saw her ill, he never really showed general concern for her. After all, she's at the school and sneezing, getting chills, a normal person does exactly as Michael does and asks if she is ill (has a cold, etc.). I'm sorry to say that your argument here is invalid considering he rarely showed concern for her until the cards were down.
@LMK: Your interpretation of her importance to the plot is your own, but I disagree. She was clearly shown connected to Alto and Ranka, although she did not directly seek out to pass time with them until ep. 5. That is not the sign of a "side character" as you call it, but rather that their relationship was given time to be set up by the writers.
And your "taking her seriously" postulation once again is a way of phrasing it which diminishes the relationship, without taking other facts into account. If we use your definition, he was taking Ranka just as "not serious" as Sheryl, although in the case of Sheryl he at the very least showed clear signs of being attracted to her, while he mostly only seemed bemused by Rankas antics.
I beg to differ; he was very proactive in spending time with Ranka, especially if she happened to be around. Meanwhile, he was very indifferent about Sheryl, almost to a point where he disliked her in the beginning. Once again, calling someone a "pain in the ass" is not development towards a relationship.
My interpretation mostly in that above piece was directed at Episode 1, in which she had no direct connection to either of the other main characters beyond stumbling into Alto's life momentarily. She could've easily left that episode without any need to return because she had no tie to any of them at that time. So my justification still stands. As for the episodes to follow, she wasn't a main character in the sense of a constant appearance. Alto and Ranka received more screen time during those first four episodes. Episode 5 was the start of her sell point, as all of you have proven countless times: "it started with Episode 5 for me." That is when she became a main character in the view of the whole series. Up until then beyond her role in the credits, she had little screen time to prove she was a main character.
Episode five was surely the point where a lot of people overcame their initial reaction to how Sheryl was introduced in episode one. However, the writer were building up those links since episode one, where the thing with the earring already happened. As such, your definition of her as a "side character" simply doesn't hold water in the conventional use of the word.
As for Alto spending time with Ranka, I think that boils down to one text message and wanting to be there to support her during the Miss Macross contest, which friends normally do. You could say that Alto was more in love with the sky during the first 10 episodes than he was with either of the girls and it took some serious prodding from Sheryl to get him out of that position ( and that is why Ranka mostly just didn't connect, that guy needed to be shown without a doubt that someone was interested in him. Ranka just did not have what it takes to get that through until later... and then he ignored those signals, too ).
where the thing with the earring already happened.
I may implore you to re-watch the first episode frame-by-frame in which this is shown happening in the episode to follow because there is no show of her earring vanishing into his armor in the first episode like it does in the second. Therefore, they added this as a plot point later, otherwise, she could've easily left the show. I've edited that scene in my videos quite a few times and I see no earring vanishing in episode one.
Originally Posted by
as all of you have proven countless times: "it started with Episode 5 for me."
To speak for myself, nope, I understood right from the start who the
would be (I saw the Deculture edition when it came out), crystal clear, it's just that Sheryl felt like "Sharon Apple now human", and Ranka looked like some generic moe character, which I remember turned me a bit off. When broadcast started all I really cared about was getting to know Alto and see how different he was from other Macross main guys, then when Star Date aired, I started to get interested in Sheryl.
I never questioned either of the girls being vital to the story of MF, which is hardly just about the Vajra confilct, and much more about how the three influenced each other in both good and bad ways and grew. Which is why I didn't buy the "Ohnogi" stories and was glad that Yot-chan started clearing up that mess around the time I started lurking here.
For the record, Misa felt far more out of place to me the first time I saw SDFM as a kid, than how you describe your impression of Sheryl. I didn't even think she was a contender for Hikaru's love until much, much further into the stroy. And as far as MC's showing who they love early on, while I think Alto had chemistry with both up to 17, Hikaru was very openly into Minmay, while subtly falling for Misa.
@LMK: Yeah, because "in episode two" means that Sheryl was a "side character" until episode 5. Are you seriously telling me that you believe that they changed their minds between two episodes about making Sheryl a main character? Puh-lease. ^^
You're not watching the episode for the pure evidence but it's there, Magnus. There is no earring lost in episode one. And, ironically, they show the same scene in episode two when Grace replays the footage, but the earring is actually lost in that. Wow... big change for two episodes with the
So your whole hypothesis that Sheryl is a side character in the first
rests on a single blip in episode one missing, one which easily could be explained with some animation lazyness? Good lord.
No; that is what you seem to get. I am explaining that had her earring not magically appeared in that second episode, she would have no further role in the series is my simple explanation of that piece.
In the second part, how they built her up to becoming a main character was small. Of course she is Ranka's role model, what star or pop idol isn't one of these in some way? But that didn't make her a main character. What made her a main character was that earring having disappeared, giving her an actual valid reason to pursue Alto at first. Without it in the picture (or there lack of) she had no role in the story and therefore the plot would fall on the two other main characters (and a possible third to come in the future).
So you see, her earring is the crucial part to say she is a main character. Where they failed is when they'd planned to keep her as a main character and fixed episode two, they should have returned to episode one and added the evidence there as well. But they did not. So question the studio if you want which direction they were to go in; but that I find a bit odd considering they've had years to plan this in advance after the end of Zero.
It can be interpreted anyway you like.
However, Kawamori mentioned in his interviews that he always left the stuff undecided (I remember reading the interviews, I think check the translated versions) so I am leaning more to Kags. Important plot points they most likely would animate.
LMK: Yeah, and if Ranka and Alto had not met in the park before the concert hall, Ranka would have had no further part in the series, either. It's simple set-up to bring some disparate characters together. All three were planned as main characters from the start.
lol @ the "main character since episode 5" talk.
Ranka shipper please.
Stop being so bitter and typing up rubbish, Sheryl was clearly connecting with both Alto and Ranka in those initial episodes, she was clearly a main character from the start. The position of her character meant it couldn't interact with the other two as much as she did later on because the story had to move (via the earring) enough for it to happen. Quoting myself from the Episode 3 thread
I don't think Sheryl's character has allowed her to get good quality time like Ranka has had with Alto so far, that will change.
I mean c'mon, busy pop star vs waitress who alto saved and is now a part of her brother's "crew", wow wonder who had easier access to Alto at the start thanks to the story.... It's hilarious people even want to play the 5 episode card, you can argue the same if not more for Misa in Macross.
Even with less screen time she was still listed 2nd on the credits only behind Alto, oh that's nothing you say? Tell that to any remaining Shinn Asuka fans who got gleefully trolled by people like me when Kira officially took back the first spot on the credits in the last quarter of Destiny.
Anyway lets go over some old good arguments, Sheryl couldn't win because Frontier was going to be Vampire Knight Macross with 2 guys and Ranka! Main characters never lose LTs even though the first version of this franchise is one of the most famous examples of that not being the case. Sheryl's image is too old/mature to win, alto doesn't like sheryl at all initially and I don't know what a tsundere is and I've somehow missed the massive amount of similar "sparks flying" initial romances.
Ranka Fans, it has been over 4 years, let it go. Especially when pictures like this are official works.
Official art, as you proclaim, is just to cater to fans like you.
Ranka had her own manga series, where's her wedding dress with Alto official art at?
Yeah, man, let's totally disregard the official materials, like the series and the movies! Let's make our own canon! Wheee!
Yeah, and if Ranka and Alto had not met in the park before the concert hall, Ranka would have had no further part in the series, either.
Except there was physical evidence that Alto and Ranka would meet again after episode one since he is the one to rescue her. Once again, without the magical earring appearing in the second episode as being lost, Sheryl would have no reason to be in the series. Her earring wasn't shown being lost in episode one's footage whereas Ranka had concrete communication with Alto in both her meeting and the rescue thereafter. Your evidence is very small.
@Westlo: once again, her so-called "wedding dress" is the one from Kindan no Elixir. It is not an official marriage. All that so-called "official art" is for you fans who believe they'll be married. And as for the "official" part, I'd love to see where this art receives the praise of Kawamori. Where is your evidence for that? Don't call something official if it isn't. There is no proof that he has seen these new volumes being released.
That being said, I'm off to bed; see you all later.
It's an officially released product, that makes it "official".
And I am wondering at this time where the argument we were having has any relevance to anything. Sheryl is a main character since episode one, deal with it.
Kawamori has supervised all 4 volumes, just like the on-going Macross FF.
interview is from the end of Volume 4. Kiss in the Galaxy is as official as the TV series and the movies, so depending on how you view continuity in Macross, take it for what it is.
And Alto is the groom
I still haven't seen reviews or pictures of them really getting married though, the final panel that came out months ago via MZW had them kissing when the Macross (Quarter?) arrived, mimicking the scene with Misa and Hikaru from DYRL and the song's lyrics in the back.
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