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The Socialist Group Version 3
Opinions and Commentary in Animesuki Discussions and Arguments Threads
Opinions and Commentary in Animesuki Discussions and Arguments Threads
I've been asked why I still live in America once or twice in my life. The government is creating increasingly restrictive, freedom-infringing laws, and we have the highest incarceration rates in the "developed world" - maybe even the entire world. We also have some of the highest rates of violence among "developed" countries, and cases of police brutality and abuse aren't terribly rare, either. Why not move somewhere else? Canada, the UK, Australia - these are places that I could move to without needing to learn another language. Why not do it?
This is a place I've been with for much of my life. There are people here I would not want to leave. There are places here I would not want to leave. There would be some culture shock if I went elsewhere. Because I am here, perhaps I can still make a difference in how things are turning out.
This isn't to say that the site staff are the US government, or that this site is a democracy. Changing countries is also a much, much bigger deal than signing up on a different forum and spending time there. But if you're questioning why I'd stick around here even with the complaints that I have, the core reasons are somewhat similar.
I'll share with you one other thing that may be of interest. When we have these discussions about rules and restrictions I often wonder what the worst-case scenario could possibly be, and I wonder why there's such a strong aversion to getting anywhere near it. It could be any rule: meticulous thread organization; strong aversion to thread duplicates; preventing cyclic arguments; preventing heated arguments; and so forth. What's the worst that could happen if these things weren't repressed even half as strongly as they were? Things would happen, for sure, but would it really be
bad? Would it really be bad, at all? Is it really worth the time and energy of the staff to prevent them (time and energy that has arguably transformed "users who volunteer as moderators" into "volunteer moderators"), and is it worth the resentment that it incurs from the affected portions of the user base?
We're talking about an internet forum. Ideally, it would be a place where everyone - "law abiding" users and those who volunteer as moderators - can come to have discussions with others and to have fun. Deal with anyone who is being very disruptive, sure, but if many regular users are finding that they need to censor themselves or that moderation activities are interfering with their own activities, then there's a problem. If volunteer moderators feel like the site has become a second workplace, or that they're doing a lot of work and resent that they're not being recognized for it, then there's a problem. If a sizable number of the "regular" users have a history of bans and/or infractions, then there's a problem. It seems to me that these problems could be resolved fairly easily, but it's countered by the fears of what would happen if things changed and lightened up. That again raises the question of "what's the worst that can happen (and is it really worth it)?"
Even that question is subjective, though. In our previous discussions you revealed some fears of what would happen with a change in what ever policy we were discussing at the time. In most cases, I either disagreed that it was realistic, or didn't see why it would be a bad thing. It's too bad that there's no clearly defined end point or best point with these things.
Either way, thanks for reading and giving your time to make some replies. We disagree on many things and I strongly dislike some of the actions you've taken, but I get the sense that you're doing what you do with good intent and care. I respect that and can't dislike you, personally, for it. It's also why I keep getting sucked into these types of conversations with you (although to be fair, you started this one
In thinking about something that you said earlier, how much time do you spend on moderation and talking about site policies, compared with joining normal user discussions and just chattering away? I really think there would be a benefit to separating user and moderator accounts. Turn all current moderators' accounts into normal user accounts (except GHDPro, and possibly NightWish, Xris, Lefteris_D, and Hellychan), and have them create new accounts that are given moderator privileges. Sure, it won't be a surprise to anyone but new users to know which users are moderators, but I think there'd be a positive benefit. Weren't concerns that people with many green blocks were intimidating other users a large reason to remove the reputation system? Going by that reasoning, how do you think users feel when someone with a boldface username and special, colored tag of "moderator" posts in a thread? It's also easy to feel resentful against moderators who give infractions or bans that the user does not feel are warranted. Rack enough of those up over time, and a moderator may be treated more coldly by members of the community, further shifting them into the role of "moderator" instead of "user who volunteers to keep the forum clean." Wouldn't that be beneficial to the moderators? They could feel that they were giving back to the community, and at the same time they could continue to participate in the community without being treated differently.
Actually, this might warrant a post in the feedback forum...
I was bored, so I went and read some of the older threads here and found this. So this was where the ideas for some threads from some time earlier originated from
To add to the original topic, I just want to say that in general, the people here rarely have the concept of "I might be wrong" and almost always "I am right" when engaged in a
(key word here, I differentiate between discussions and debates, and I enjoy discussions more than I enjoy debates). I have come to an understanding that when you're discussing or reviewing part of hobbies, which anime and manga is most certainly are, one can NEVER have an objective view of anything, aside perhaps from the obviously objective facts like the actual written dialogue or narratives. Even then everyone can (and will) have different interpretations of the same piece of actual information.
This is something that a lot of people here seems to be unable to grasp. When reading in on a discussion, more often than my liking the retort "well that's like, your opinion man" will be used, to which I can only respond in whispers "well, duh". To be fair, I think it's also true everywhere else, and that there is a perfectly legitimate reasons why people think this way, one of which is there actually ARE people who think that their opinions are facts, and sadly this being the internet you will more than likely to come across them.
My personal default stance on any manner of anime discussion is that no matter how pompous someone worded it, they remain as a subjective assessment. They cannot truly be clarified or denied objectively and I think more fruitful discussions stems from people trying to understand each other's perspective rather than coming in with a horse-glasses view on things and shotgun everyone who disagree. And for this reason, dare I say I respect Archon Wing's company in a discussion more than probably most people here because from what I read in that thread about the nature of opinions he articulated a similar idea and basically was fully aware that everything he's saying is subjective, and expected those engaged in a conversation with him to know this by default so he rarely went and explain it. He could use some tact, sure, but I generally agree with the default stance of "everything is subjective in entertainment", which should have been obvious but people miss it a lot of the time.
There is also the ever important question on how to distinct objective facts from subjective assessments. It's a done to death topic already even here, and afaik no consensus have been made aside from how blurry the line can be. Though this is actually all the more reason I default my stance to "everything is subjective", and judge comments not on whether it's right or wrong, but on whether I can agree with it or not.
More often than not I judge what people say based on how nicely they said it.
"I'm gonna fucking kill you."
Not the same as.
"A friendly reminder; I'd very much like to kill you.
Or maybe I don't, I don't know...I'm an idiot.
This is why I always want to say at the end of every post I make.... I say "IMHO" or "It's just me"...
I always feel that imo is redundant.
Well, Its just a reminder.... Hot headed people always forgets that....
Internet makes you stupid. That's what people shouldn't forget.
Oh.,.. we all are! Lolss
I agree. That Archon guy is pretty cool despite issues of tact.
Anyhow, I think discussion on AS is pretty good. The mods usually get rid of the awful debates and there's not much of a sense of elitism that can occur at other boards. This isn't to say it's perfect as I feel some people who are disruptive are still around and people who weren't aren't. Still, I've never had any problems saying whatever I needed to say.
archon? why you here?
Pocari asked for him to be invited a while back, iirc.
Oh hey, the guy appears! Rare to see you in this part of the forum
Just a side note for this thread's topic, I originally came to AS for the discussion in the Umineko threads. Seriously, that part of the forum is like a whole different world compared to the rest of this place, in a good way. There, I noticed several good members that rarely if ever seen on other parts of the forum, like Renall and Aura_Twilight (btw Archon, I kind of got used to you easier because this Aura_Twilight have that similar tactless-awesome behavior with you
). I also have occasionally seen Jan_Poo outside Umineko threads, and Klashikari as well. Generally, I like how these people in Umineko thread can go into a very heated discussion and harsh criticisms about Umineko but still maintain a strong community and fondness of the franchise. It's really like nothing I've seen before or since in an anime forum.
There are several parts of AS that live in their own world, like IS, Nanoha, possibly Highschool DxD, etc.
I have heard of the Nanoha threads, but they were mostly active before I got here so I don't know much. iirc, Ridwan was originally a lurker of those Nanoha threads and only recently become a more active member.
Btw, I'm curious, how many of you witnessed the "dark age" when AS is the place of the worst kinds of fansubbing elitisms and trolls until they moved on somewhere else? I honestly wouldn't know of such history had an acquaintance of mine not tell me about it.
relentlessflame would know, but she's tsundere so probably won't tell you
@ Ledgem : The reason why they are taking the freedom of speech away in the US is because there is an increasing case of abuse with it. Think Westboro Church, morons who argue with the police despite flouting law and order, etc.
Those restrictions are being abused too, by police seeking to take back their "honor and image", people who have been named and shamed, etc. I think it is an equilibrium shift in another direction.
Though I still do hang out hope that US is certainly the land of the free despite local cowards tarnishing the other image of "home of the brave". That is why there are Asians, especially Chinese, who still want to live there despite knowing of the dangers and flaws, especially that of gun ownership and racism.
Keep it the way it is supposed to be you Yanks. Stop liking on facebook, get off your couch, and take a walk out there to make a difference. Oh yes, before taking that walk,
; it is going to be a long walk.
This is from a Singaporean, despite living in a country
with the highest GDP per capita in the world
, we certainly hope to want what the US of A has - freedom. It is what gives people something forward to look for in life.
Oh, I'm here because I was invited but I had no idea what this club was about. I thought it was about socialism or some politics stuff.
Otherwise, I pretty much found this like Relentless did.
But yea, if any misfortune happens, it's best to blame it on Pocari Sweat, since he told me of stuff in here. He's like Ryuk from Death Note where nothing good can happen when you talk with him.
The Umi subforum was decent, considering the rage that happened in that DEEN adaptation. There was a lot to handle, really.
And lol@ Nanoboards. Its own world indeed, though it's been hit with a mass extinction.
Oh so it was Pocari_Sweat. I had a feeling when I saw this...
Originally Posted by
Please assist. I have discovered my name being mentioned in places and would like to search for myself in increasingly egotistical endeavours.
Ah, Pocari that bastard, he's so lonely but wants to be shipped with you Archon. It's almost sad to watch him cry out for that.
@ FF fuck you and your delusional shipping
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