Kamio Misuzu basically has a mental disorder... ಠ_ಠ

Now hold on, I never said that anyone with any sort of disorder or deformity was automatically not cute overall. Misuzu is cute, but do you find her tendency to cry when she makes a friend "cute"? That disorder/curse specifically is not cute or enticing at all, explaining why she had no friends in school, even though many of her peers tried to befriend her. This does not change the fact that just about every other aspect of her is very cute (well, except the Kanna thing :eyespin:).

Imagine a real life Misuzu, and things get a whole lot worse, since there's no traveling magician to understand where she's coming from and help her. My point is, flaws aren't considered good things, which is why they're flawed. What should and shouldn't be flaws is a raging discussion to be had somewhere else.

That's your opinion then, some of us find that cute. Heck, I even find RL girls with certain disorders kind of moe. :V

Let me clarify that in my original statement, "Because having mental disorders is not moe moe. Being tsundere, however, is.", I was referring to one of the real life equivalents of tsundere as bipolar. I'm also saying that real life problems, like bipolarism, tend to be overlooked or exaggerated in fiction to a point where it is no longer a flaw, but rather a funny or endearing character trait, hence one type of tsundere. TV rarely puts an obvious problem on a character, then expect you to take that character seriously. You either laugh it off, a salvation that you don't usually enjoy when witnessing such behavior in real life, or take pity.

I strongly agree with you here. I love the classic tsundere who genuinely changes over time, and doesn't simply switch constantly and randomly back and forth between harsh and sweet throughout the entire anime. I mean, I don't expect (or necessarily want) the "tsuntsun" side to disappear entirely, but I do like it when the tsundere goes from mostly "tsuntsun" to mostly "deredere". That feels like meaningful character development interwoven with good relationship development interwoven with actual plot progression.

Some qualification notes on cultural differences: japanese society tends to pretend "mental illness" doesn't exist. So rarely are people *treated* for mental disorders or neurotic problems, usually the community/family/friends just try to work around the problem.
So... what in the US or Europe might immediately get you put in therapy or on drugs (assuming you can afford it) is just part of the daily experience in Japan.

There are tsundere in real world, they might be all sweet with you but be damn mean to someone else. Or other way around.

Or someone is all happy but then just cracks and gets mad and sad.

I thought the whole, 'quickly reverting from Tsun to dere or vice versa' was because of an inability to Spit It Out to her love interest. So I'm not sure how you can date or even marry and Tsundere...

Once I went to a Tsundere cafe in Akihabara when I was visiting Japan. It was very odd...

Did she give you a special Tsundere Slap? Not because you pissed her off, but because that's apparently cute?

No, no, they must have to had bring out the food blushing, and say something like "It's not like I made it for you or anything, I just happen to make to much. So you can have some, so it doesn't go to waste.". They're only suppose to tsundere slap you, if you do something teasing, stupid, or give them a bad tip :heh:.

As just being violent randomly would be more like a Yandere cafe; I think that might be a bad idea to have for various reasons :twitch::uhoh:.

P.S. Just speculation since obivously I've never been to one either.

Pay 10000 yen to get "backstabbed". :naughty: Sign your waiver forms first, gentlemen.

I saw lots of tsundere in my life....during my high school...
The type of keeps teasing you and act like they do not care when in groups, but start to be shy and suddenly become quiet when stay alone with you. They do not say "it's not like i want to give you a copy of my note, it's just because the teacher told me to do so" through...

Hm... Yandere cafe... If I were a girl, I'd work at one!

but anyway, you pretty much got everything right. When you go in, they act all rude like when you first walk in: "What do you want?" then they toss the menu in the general direction. But then they get really clingy and act all cute when you start to finish your meal/leave. It was fun, but I prefer "Little Sister" cafes more :P

Do they say "It's not like i prepare this specifically for you.... i just made it too much..." or something like that? :D

That's like the central stereotype spirit of the whole tsundere thing.... like Australia with kangaroo or Canada with snow...

Indeed they did! Whenever tsunderes say that, I can't help but smile :)

I suppose Tsunderes are fun in anime because you are viewing it from a 3rd person perspective, and in anime they are incredibly easy to "read" (the 3rd person perspective helps).

How you would deal with one in RL would depend on how well you can "read" her, I guess.

For some reason I always thought that tsunderes would be more common in men because they have to uphold that 'tough masculine' exterior. So if they accidentally let some softness out (ex. aww at a kitty), they would get embarassed and hide it with anger or something.

Then again, I guess tsundere guys just aren't liked as much as tsundere girls :P

This is correct. As a straight male kuutsundere, I don't remember how many times I was asked in highschool if I was gay, even after VERY EXPLICITLY denying it! AND YET THEY JUST KEPT DOING THING LIKE THAT THAT WOULD AGRIVATE ME AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (In case you couldn't tell, I'm not really the physical abuse tsundere type, but if you REALLY repetitively provoke me, I will physically retaliate)

...it didn't hit me until after HS and when I descovered the "tsundere" archetype that, just like a guy having fun teasing a tsundere girl, that they just loved seeing me get all ralled up - hence why they'd smirk and laugh.


Anyway, the point is, tsundere, even though typically seen in tomboys, just doesn't come off as normal for guys - it apparently gives off some "gay" undertones. (Remember, tomboys still have some feminine traits - they're not full-on butch.) This I believe results in females being not that interested for dating and stuff, because you're not enough like an actual guy - you're stuck somewhere in the middle, usually the "sort of a friend" territory. (heck I get along with my sister's friends who are usually at least slightly tomboy, much more than most guys I've ever known.)

I think the main reason why male tsunderes are rare is because they're usually "jerks with hearts of gold" instead - which in a way is a more masculine version of the tsundere, which itself makes 'tsundere' feminine, which is obviously bad for straight guys, so they try to compensate. (I however, thanks in part to my additional kuudere streak and general geekiness, really couldn't care less about my "macho" image)


This theory is also supported by my... uh... well, for now let's just say a certain not-so-masculine interest and um... fetish actually >_>. Let's just say that if I suddenly woke up female, I wouldn't really mind it (but remember, I'm straight man, so I'm NOT a transsexual, nor am I actively seeking out such things, but it's not like I'd mind and there is that fetish thing I mentioned...let's just say I'd definitely be a tomboy and not butch - and yes I like yuri, in fact very much so - heck I even like, um... futa...). Either way, if I was like that, people would probably be able to really bring out the true tsundere in me.



I just registered for this, and I don't exactly have a day job, so if anyone actually cares for some kuudere/tsundere/kuutsundere opinions, insight, etc, I'll see what I can do.

And if anyone cares, yes, I too relate very much to Sackett's story, except actually to the girl >_>; Just replace her with me and I'd react darn near exactly the same. I've also noticed this relating-to-ness with several tsunderes like Ikuno Komaki (my self-proclaimed "clone") and Rin Tohsaka (my waifu and ALMOST clone)


Oh and yes, call me cute and you WILL get some tsun (though if I deem your method too lame, you'll probably just get some "kuu")



OK, that's it for "inside the mind of NM64: the straight male kuutsundere". Now go away, shoo. You won't get any more emotional crap from me tonight.

hmm, I'm a lot like that too! I hate being called gay. I've even had girlfriends in the past! T.T (not that I have anything against people that ARE like that. I respect people's decisions. Unless they "decide" to call me gay.)

The tsundere-type personality can exist in real life.

Given that it's plausible that a girl can hate you at first, and then later fall for you. It's a matter of how you act around her and what you do to get towards that final stage.

Of course, a 'true' tsundere is something I haven't seen yet.

And what is this 'true' tsundere you speak of?

Do you mean the modern 'tsundere' definition?

Oh boy,this is the story of my childhood,you see I consider my mom a real life tsundere :D , which is why I guess I'm attracted to them in anime.
And what you described happened quite often with my dad,she'd go "will you stop smiling!It's not funny",by the time I was older she'd pretty much caught on so it didn't happen as much but from stories I heard my dad knew just what buttons to push and when.

She was very Tsun in public,her nickname was "mother superior" and people were quite uptight around her,as a business woman that reputation kinda helped her.She even was a bit violent as a highscooler (was suspended a few times for getting into fights).While she was popular with guys,she never managed to keep one for a long time because of her personality.

But in private she had a great Dere side that few people knew,she got more and more Dere as she got older,it surprised a few people.

I have lots of random stories but I think I'll spare you the details!

I haven't seen any of them yet.

But I know someone who 'claimed' to be a tsundere. >_>

Well i have few friend that tsundere (by mean by tsundere is that person is sometimes sweet or genki and very short tempered) albeit not as vicious as on the anime. (shouting a lot, punching, ETC)

amazingly this apply both girl and boy in my school (50:50)

also people call me tsundere despite i am more to kuudere

Your post so made me think of this comic:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...sunderemom.jpg
:uhoh:

wow, who made a comic of my wife? (except for the height and hair color anyway) :)

Well a Tsunadere is techinically a female protagnist who hates the main character at first them falls in love with them. So its safe to say that a Tsunadere exists in the real world. Now manga and anime artists versions of tsunaderes don't really exist. And yes I do generally find tsunaderes annoying. I prefr more calm level headed women.

I just had a tsundere session with my dad an hour ago for 2-some hours on buying a few things from amazon. I learned my early computer skills from him, but now I swear the guy is going senile.

"Technically" there are several constructs of tsundere these days (rather than just the old linear one you mention) - but there have been several threads already discussing that and some wikis that delineate the various types. Another type is the "Crunchy on the outside, creamy on the inside" type.

A tsundere for me is a girl who plays it like a feminist but as soon as someone bitchslaps her, she gets the hots for him and becomes a passive sheep. Mostly used in teen male targeted works.

In real life? Well, how about nuns? To them sex is a sin and they need to spend their lives as virgins, married only to the Lord. As much as someone can control his hormones, not getting any for 70 years can make you quite cranky if you ask me.

Uh, yeah...

That's not really how tsundere work.

Isn't any girl who's got a bit of a superiority complex tsundere? And any girl who is a bit arrogant sometimes?

Especially smart or beautiful (or both) girls will be tsundere, because they'll try to hide their intelligence/beauty.

Would love to have a tsundere for a girlfriend.

My 3D sister is a tsundere (reality). But most of the time, tsundere personality is very prominent in ages 5-10; 60+ and also in pregnant women.

Cats are all pretty much tsundere.

I had a boss that was kinda tsundere. She was normally a strict, no-nonsense person. Seemed a little hard to warm up to. But on my last day, there was a small party for me, cake and all. And then I found out it was my boss that decided to throw this. She was all like "I just got this cake because I knew you like chocolate so much!"

Uh, what?

It's extremely common for a tsunderes to maintain their "tsun" side over the long run.

I see this as more applying to the loli-tsundere type (Taiga Aisaka, Shana) rather than the older, more aloof type (perhaps with some kuudere mixed in) such as Rin Tohsaka or Tsugumi (Ever17).

There might also be a 3rd "bitch" type of tsundere as well (Naru Narusegawa and Asuka Langley come to mind, Kyou Fujibayashi may also qualify) which is possibly an alternate non-loli-tsundere archetype.

Yes.

I am a tsundere, of the Kyou Fujibayashi type, but not quite as violent. :)

I get blushy and embarrassed when my girlfriend is affectionate or doting in public, I'm often snarky and sometimes curt with her as a result.

But when there's nobody watching, I can and will be very deredere. :heh:

It's not so much "hating and liking" as it is about embarrassment and uncomfy feelings when eyes are upon us. I suppose I handle it better than the true "tsundere" manga and anime characters, because unlike them I'm actually aware I act this way, I just either can't help it or continue to act this way because it's within my comfort zone. Who knows?

A lot of people seem to miss the fact that "tsun" is a *shield* that covers underlying "dere". Its like an difficult puzzle with a prize inside in one sense. In real life, the puzzle often regenerates itself in part if you don't pay attention :) Even then, the shield is up for some and down for others.