Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
(Post 4509120)
I honestly don't understand the way your brain works if you're making this argument. I don't mean that as some sort of a slight, but I just don't understand it. I can only try to help you understand the way I see it myself so at least you can see where some people are coming from, even if you don't see it that way yourself.
When I see a "serious fight", I always consider it in the context of the work in which its presented.
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But "serious fight"
is the context. Or to be more precise, "fighting" is what is happening, and "serious" is the context. The stakes are high and/or the combatants are taking this very seriously, and so we have a serious context for this fight.
My point is just because a serious fight takes place in a relatively lighthearted work doesn't detract from the seriousness of the fight itself. And with a
serious fight I don't want to be distracted by fanservicey elements that are completely superfluous to the fight itself.
Now, a female character may look attractive in combat just because she has an attractive character design in general. That's fine. And I don't have a problem with "plug suits" because they typically make sense in-canon. But that's different than the camera taking a perverted "male gaze" approach that I think is simply unwarranted and very distracting when what the camera is "filming" is a serious fight.
And besides, there's just no need of it. Isn't there enough time in
non-action scenes for this stuff?
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Fate/Zero is a very dark, serious show pretty much from end-to-end. It has its mood, its sense of direction, and its own style. To do something that is inconsistent with its own established style would be jarring, and unlikely to be well-received by the audience who was expecting something else. But this is a bright and colourful show focused on cute heroines, and it established that fanservice is an element of the show throughout. So once we understand that this is just part of its style, even in "serious fights", then it ceases to be jarring within its own established framework.
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I strongly disagree. I continue to find it jarring, completely unnecessary, and detracting from the quality of the fight scenes.
The fact is that many anime shows gravitate seamlessly between fanservicey lighthearted scenes and non-fanservicey action scenes, so just because there's fanservice in lighthearted scenes doesn't mean that I expect them in action scenes.
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You have a very specific personal set of expectations that apply to all serious fighting scenes regardless of the show... but that isn't the way it has to be.
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They're not a "set of expectations", like some grand checklist. I just want "the cameras" to film a serious action scene like I would any fight presented seriously in real life. When pro wrestlers start fighting, you don't see constant focus on their asses, because that would take most viewers out of the match that you, as the viewer, are meant to take with some degree of seriousness (even if it is entirely scripted of course). And pro wrestling has gone through many eras, some more "family friendly" than others, and yet I would say this expectation remains for most viewers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H.
(Post 4509125)
A serious fight can have fanservice (see Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon).
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Of course it
can. That's not what we're discussing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback
(Post 4509127)
Fate/Stay night has fanservice, and its the same franchise.
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Good point. Which is another reason why Obelisk ze Tormentor's comparison is perfectly fine, imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling
(Post 4509126)
I don't remember how much fanservice Strike Witches had in any of its "serious" scenes, but if it did have any, the fanservice didn't bother me any. On some level I think the "if the scene is good enough (i.e. tension, drama, etc.), then it doesn't need fanservice" argument can be turned on its head: if the tension/drama is high enough to pull you into the scene, then there's no reason to be distracted by a bit of fanservice.
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With all due respect, I think that's a poor argument.
Fanservice tends to be
loud, by nature, much like a hawaiian t-shirt is loud. A hawaiian t-shirt tends to get noticed by people who love it, by people who hate it, and everyone between. Sexual fanservice is the same way.
And things that are loud are inherently distracting.
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I think the viewers who complain of not being able to take Strike Witches seriously might be misinterpreting the intent or not synchronising with most of the scenes. There are moments when Strike Witches carries off "serious" very effectively, such as when one of the witches gets injured in battle, regardless of fanservice. The point is actually that most of the time, Strike Witches is not trying to be "serious" at all (in the sense of gravitas, weightiness, grimness or whatever). Most of Strike Witches' drama arises instead from 'hotblooded' elements (like passion, wanting to protect people, etc.) for which the mere visual presence of sexuality does not really impact negatively.
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I really don't get your point here. "Hotblooded" and "serious" are hardly mutually exclusive. I mean, if they
are mutually exclusive, then Gurren Lagann and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure must be total comedies. :heh:
And "wanting to protect people" is a serious character motivation. Honestly, that's about as serious as it gets.