[MANGA] what went wrong in bleach?
so here we go :)
to me: Renjis Bankai - it seems like Kubo had absolutely no idea what kind of bankai renji should get.. in the end it seems to me that this is the most useless/unusable bankai, it is big and slow, and wow(!) it can split itself in its segments wooohoooo :heh: (remembers me of aquaman or daredevil, just useless)... i see just one purpose for renji, hes the tank :D like in mmorpg, so he has to fight with a partner and act as a supporter -> as boring as orihime when it comes to a fight Kiras Shikai - it is so imbalanced.. there is no need for him to land a hit, blocking is enough, and i cant imagine him getting any stronger, would be just unfair.. so i expect that we won't see him around that often Rukias and Hitsugayas ice based zanpaktous - we already know that hitsugayas sword is the "most powerful of all ice based zanpaktous".. thats pretty bad for rukia because it would look cheesy when she comes near his powerlevel or performs well in comparison with only using her shikai :twitch: |
The thing Kubo Tite has for introducing characters and then simply just let them be there with no development whatsoever, like a fart in sealed room :o
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Way too many damn characters.
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it'll have to be unnecessary teasing. Just show us urahara's bankai and get it over with instead of giving out hints every now and then.
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What? U want all the characters to have ohsogreatandpretty abilities or what?
Not everyone is Ichigo who with his prettiness and oh so Über bankai styled katana rules them all. Minor characters should stay behind the leading ones, isn't that a rule in shonen?? |
erm, lets see........
creating the orb that leads to aizen becoming a major villain, ever present to provide upgrades and info for characters. Hardly a 'minor' character from my point of view |
I totally disagree with those... here's what I think.
1. Having Hitsugaya (& Matsumoto) be the leader of the team that was sent to the real world. Renji's own explination onto the groups formation is flawed and doesn't really make much sense. IF Renji was asked to make a group based on his own desicions, I severely doubt that those two would have been in it. For the most part Kira and Hisagi should have been the ones to replace those two since they have the most immidiate connection to Renji. If anything, Kubo is guilty here of attempting to please fan girls. 2. The introduction of the Vizards and Shinji. It's redundant no matter how you look at it. The "new mysterious transfer student" thing wears thin after the first time. Furthermore, their participation up to now just blows, like why even make all of them, if you are never going to do anything with them. 3. Several left out explinations. -How come it's OK for Ichigo to miss an entire month of school? -How did Ichigo suddenly manage to increase his time with his mask on? -The whole Espada numbering, some of it seems contradictory. -Just how did Aizen plug Luppi right into the sixth spot? Considering when Grim got it back he just blew him away. 4. The whole Szayel fight is just beyond a waste. Having him "negate" everyone's powers because he is able to study someone's abilities - at the speed of light mind you - and then cancel out every attack is just a boring, lame, and unimaginative way to drag out a fight; especially when you consider the annoying(ness) of it being placed in pieces every chapter. 5. Nel and her friends. Personal opinion here; whether this was Kubo's attempt to make another Hanataro/Ganju mixed in with a bit of Yoruichi, it has sucked. Specially this last fight with Noitra, man oh man. I couldn't stand Nel's older personality, "I wont kill you", what kinda worthless talk is that? Like shit, what does Kubo expect? 6. Ichigo's lack of character development. You'd figure that after assaulting two places, (Soul Society, Las Noches) he'd get the picture that you simply can't win with the idea of "wanting to save your friends". Zaraki, Dordoni, and Grimmjow have all said that his attitude is the reason why he is weak, because he never fights for himself. If he always relies on the feelings and situations of other people, how the hell can he ever defeat anyone? But I might be wrong about this one. I have more... but that's enough for now. |
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OK here are mine.
1. How come when you are a "soul" you can get physically sick like rukia's sister and Ukitake? Ukitake coughed up blood in an ep. that means one of two things Tuberculosis or Lung Cancer... how can a soul get those? Never really got that. 2. In one of the early episodes when they first got to the SS chad ran into that parakeet kid and the kid told him when you go to the soul society you don't grow or change but rukia and renji and other did grow up... 3. In the SS there were markets that rukia, renji and their friends stole from. Why have market at all when most souls don't eat anything? and how was there rice and fruit there? 4. How dose a soul die? and where dose it go after that? eg. rukia's sister. 5. Spoiler for manga:
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I agree with a lot of stuff WONDERMIKE brought up except one thing. Renji's bankai. It is just as big and cumbersome as Komamura Sajin's bankai, and he uses it well, some are just huge and I think it fits him. The fact that it can now spread into sections is part of its development. It will probably have a few more features as renji masters it. Same with ichigo, I can't believe its just speed he has. I think he will develop it further. As for what Jays said about ichigo's lack of development of his character well... #1 he is only 15 #2 Its manga the character needs stuff to always be working on when it comes to character. #3 Without that hardheadedness he would not get into trouble and there would be no story. #4 He will always care for his friends more than himself because its manga... |
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Also, here's one that I think everyone can agree on: Why does nobody, and I mean nobody every die? (Hollows being purified notwithstanding) Also, that one soul that went to hell, well, what the hell...I thought Hueco Mundo existed for those twisted souls in the first place. |
Yeah, the whole afterlife thing doesn't make much sense, so I don't think about it.
How about giving Ikkaku a bankai? He was defeated by Ichigo when Ichigo was weaker than a lieutenant. Also, when was it decided that shinigami could move through the air like it was solid ground? And of course there are those impenetrable character shields. |
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hueco mundo/hell/... -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_(Bleach)) its only natural for a hollow to feed on souls, so that cant really count as a sin |
1. Wonderwice (The little kid arrancar with a big sword on his back, not sure how to spell) turning from a fighter into a pet.
2. Letting Nell be sexy and own in only 3 to 4 chapters and then turning back to a child.:( |
One of the things that irks me most is the way that Kubo totally ignores the development of Tatsuki and other characters from earth. She's introduced in the beginning and has a fairly large part early on in the storyline, then is almost totally forgotten after the first arc of the story. I suppose the reason for this is the introduction of too many new characters. Its hard to get attached to characters that only stick around for a few chapters or episodes.
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Ichigo was not weaker than a lieutenant, never has been. He is just not as experienced in battle as they are. Yeah the fighting in air thing is something I had a problem with too but I forgot to mention it on my list of bitches...;) |
For the current arc...
1. Multitasking: Multitasking both noi / szayel fights. 2. Dragging out fights: Guilty for both too. 3. Unwillingness to kill off characters: I'm not sadistic, but some deaths are needed to keep a good plot going. 4. Repeated character designs: Neriel. Need i say more? 5. Similar storyline. SS arc and the current LN arc. |
I'll only reference your points where I feel I have something to add, Maqi.
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Spoiler for manga. Byakuya attitude:
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Spoiler for manga latest - warning:
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Soul Society ain't heaven in any form. I wonder if one had to be non-Christian (or hindu, or Jewish, or Muslim, or whatever) to go to Soul Society. I know it's a pointless point but still... I mean for a time I fantasized Soul Society as a regional station for the Japanese islands or something. With different versions for different locales and people's religious beliefs that would remain seperate until the end of the universe or something.
Well, heaven is probably a different place and its certainly not Soul Society. I just like to let my mind wander from time to time.... |
If Ishin is a shinigami... and all shinigami's are spirits... did he reproduce using a gigai?
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6 months of plotkai's and logic jumps are counter acted by 1 Kenpachi appearance, perhaps in the form of a two page spread, or 3-4 panels of other Gar characters such as Grim or Ikkaku (and general badassitry).
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It needs more Uruu~
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I've often wondered that myself, I work in medicine and this whole spirits having physical illnesses and reproducing is for me what a logic inconsistency is for a robot KT is making my head explode!!!!!!!:heh: anyway it makes for a cool story so I'll get over it.:D |
For me...
1. Drawn out and uninteresting battles. I haven't really been interested in any fights since the SS Arc, the recent battle that actually held my interest was Ichigo versus Ulq, and that was a while back when that occured. 2. Having important people like Aizen,Gin, tosen, and Yamamoto doing little to nothing. 3. This is my biggest complaint here. The character relations are strange sometimes even silly. Renji so intent on killing rukia when he comes to earth, even though they grew up together. That becomes a revelation later for some strange reason. Never followed Byakuya's reasoning at all. Tosen's talk of justice yet joining Aizen's side, and remaining there. I could go on, but it just feels silly to me. |
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One thing about Soul Society that might have pissed Tousen off is that dispite the fact that they call themselves the good guys, they fully allow shinigami like Kenpachi and Mayuri... those two are pretty evil and in Tousen's opinion both should probably be done away with instead allowed into the ranks of the shinigami... he's already expressed such harsh feelings for Kenpachi, and i'm sure he would think the same of Mayuri Quote:
though anyway, Kira and Hisagi were probably not in good shape to go to Earth. Kira like Hinamori, is more than likely still recovering from his experince with Gin and being used as a pawn in Aizen's sceam. Hisagi is also in no position to go to Earth seeing as he has to help fill in the hole Left by Tousen... not to mention he too may have some personal issues seeing as his captain was one of the poeple helping Aizen; it's obviosuly wouldn't be as bad as Kira and hinamori, but it it still might have some emotional effect on him even if he doesn't show it. Quote:
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The arrancar and vizard have no real techniques. They just fight. Cero and bala are just generic energy blasts. Sonido is just speed. Ichigo is still getting by with just Getsuga Tenshou. Most of the fights are still fun to look it at (except Szyael's, which is a chore) but they could use some more depth. Quote:
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Y'know i thought of another inconsistancy... the power level of Menos class hollows as to how they are presented in the begining and how they are showed later on.
When they were first intoduced with the gillian-class menos arriving on earth, Rukia said the menos was said to be so powerful that not a single death god could fight... but as it has been proven, captain's, lietents, and some of the other shinigami could hald them quite easily... Hell, Rukia herself killed an Ajucas-level arrancar quiet easily; If she could do that then she should have had no problem at all killing a Gillian... Really, all these thigns that are gettign pointed out about Bleach makes me think that Kubo really does seem to lack serious foresight when it comes to the details of his world. Quote:
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Not to mention, even if he was gillian, he was an anacar and thus more powerful than a normal gillian and it doesn't at all change the fact that Rukia killed him effortlessly... If she could kill d-roy without effort than she could kill a Gillian without effort... She say's no lone shinigami could handle one, but She herself proved that statement to be dead wrong... along with Hitsuhyga, Masumoto, Ikkau, and everyone else who SINGLE HANDEDLY has killed an anarcar thus far, since every anarcar has atleast Gillian level power if not greater. |
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As for Tosens reasons...maybe he only accepts "pure" souls like Aizen (pure evil?) or great visions (becoming God). |
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looking back at older episodes of bleach, one thing i was kind of picking up on was the drastic character changes for a few characters. In Particular, Renji. When we first saw Renji he was on a mission to capture Rukia for a crime so bad that they could kill her right on the spot if nessasary. Thing is though, he looked like he was enjoying the mission WAY to much... and he seemed rather genuine as opposed to some act. He seemed to enjoy attack Rukia, frightening her, and then when poeple came to help her, poeple she made it clear she cared about, Renji seem to take great joy and beating them down and was ready to kill them. Really, you know from the conversation that He and Rukia knew eachother from the past, but you damn well would not guess that they were childhood best friends... but then once we get to Soul Society he pulls a 180 and starts to act and sound like he is a close childhood friend... it's like Kubo specifically changed Renji's personality in the begining to make him look like a villian, and then changed it back to make him sympathetic.
Ikkaku mgiht be another one... really, can you imagine the Ikkaku we've seen in more recent chapters to dance around in front of his opponent like he did when he first ran into Ichigo? though i'm more willing to let that slide as one time joke kind of thing. anoher thing i was thinking about was how soul society tolerates Ishida, chad and Orihime fighting... afterall, the whole reason the quincys were wiped out was because they killed hollows instead of cleansing them. Ishida, Chad and Orihime should be doing them same... However, i'm willing to excep that SS tolerates it for need of strong fighters in time of war, and also since their are only a few of them, they aren't doing much damage; as opposed to when you have hundreds of quicys doing it, and then there's a poblem. But that got me thinking about something in more recent chapters, Ichigo's unwillingness to kill Dordonii, and also leaving him to be killed by the Exequias... in a sence, Killing Dordonii would have been the best thing for Ichigo to do as he would have been Purified as opposed to being killed by the Exequias which means destruction for him. Ichigo didn't really seem to take that into consideration when he let Dordonii live; he thought about Dordonii possibly attacking him, but didn't think about him being Destroyed for failing Aizen and that purification is generally a good thing... afterall, the realization that Hollows were human, followed by knowing that killing the hollows was a form of purification was a source of confort for Ichigo and what made she he would be able to kill them even if he knew they were once human souls. I've also been thinking about friendly Ichigo has been with anarcar and hollows as of late. Not just Dordonii, but Nell, Pesche and Dondo aswell. i mean, sure their goof offs and seem harmless, but when it comes down to it, they are hollows and as such still need to consume human souls as food... which is bad thing... Nell, being an arancar should be eating hollows (though in her child form she may only need human souls tokeep going) and that too should set off a shinigami since hollows are still human souls that need to be purfied; though i'm more lenient there as Ichigo has no problem with Ishida and chad killing hollows... as much as he might pity/idenitify/care for them, they are still soul eating monsters that should be purified. Quote:
hell, when they were explaining to ichigo the whole menos evolution and mentioned that the gillian were only foot soldiers, no one seemed to point out that Ichigo had nothing to fear as the gillians are below the level of a vice captain. they continued to play it up as a serious threat. another thing i was also remined of while looking back at old chapters was Rukia's fight with that first Hollow... considering how effortless it was for her to kill D-roy, i would think that she would be able to kill a hollow like that one in a single strike... as oppose to light cut to the arm and needing to sacrifice herself to save Ichigo... comparing her relative difficulty with that hollow and how easy the far more powerful D-roy was to kill, i can't help but think Kubo weakened her for the sake of plot I guess that's a serious problem that can come up with most shonen... most shonen series like to make it so that there is a massive difference in strength between characters. If they would tone it down and big everyone closer to eachother, then seeing a character become stronger than another in a rather short amount of time would nto seem so unbeliable... as in, if the strength of D-roy and that hollow were a lot closer, then we can believe that Rukia might have some trouble with that hollow and yet, a month of training fter getting her powers back, might be strong enough to fight with D-roy. |
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1) Well, he was just cutting her gigai. That's not the same thing as cutting her; at least that might be how shinigami look at it? 2)Also, I think Renji was probably scared that if he didn't frighten her enough and she resisted........Byakuya wouldn't have given her a chance to turn herself in peacefully. I got the impression afterwards that a lot of his bark and bite was a pretense for Byakuya's benefit. He doesn't speak more warmly to her until they're alone together. 3)Most importantly, Renji was still bitter at her about being rejected, not just as a potential boyfriend (that still might happen) but even as a friend and comrade. There's nothing more painful a friend can do to another friend. It wasn't till Rukia was about to be executed, that he realized she meant more to him than any old emotional hangups. Quote:
I didn't have any major problem with Bleach till the Hueco Mundo arc. Sure, the power levels have been inconsistent, self-contradictory and overcomplicated for a long time............but that's shounen. What bothers me is that majority (not all!) of the fights don't have any purpose or emotional drive behind them now. The only motivation in most cases is that one combatant is from Team Good and the other is from Team Evil. Those kind of fights just fill space without adding much in terms of character development or story. |
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Say that again! Naruto's cast is bigger and it doesn't take away from the story. Personally, I don't care about Kira. It's Hisagi who needs character development Not to mention, if everyone was Uber strong...It would take away the mystique of Bankai, Captain, Arrancar, Vaizards and Aizen-Almighty... <--Extreme Sarcasm-DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!:p Ichigo would still be the bomb (Sickening...I know.):heh: but otherwise it would suck. BIG TIME |
What went wrong imo is that they got saved by a couple of captains which was like always they being saved. Ulquiorra wont come out and Ishida fight took years
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