[Manga] Naruto Chapter 584 Discussion
 

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It's a new week, so that means new Naruto spoilers...which are released early this week.

-More info as it is released...

There is a RAW out and a translation.

I have to say, Kishi is really testing his audience's patience with these flashbacks. We are not really learning anything new. Just some switching around of Kabuto's backstory like with Sasori. And some minor stuff like why Orochimaru wanted to create the Sound Village.

It just seems more like an exercise. Kabuto is going to die so we need his entire life history in the middle of a fight for his send-off. There had to be a better way to do this. It brings the manga to a screeching halt. I just hope this ends soon so we can get back to Naruto. I never thought I'd say that.

There would be no problem with this if Kabuto's character was built up properly and people would really care about his story. Flashbacks as this one always end up giving some depth to the story, these show us what is the real motivation of important characters like Nagato (he had his lengthy flashback). And given the huge impact Kabuto has on the story, with all the Edo Tensei stuff going on, he simply had to have a flashback where we learn what the hell he wanted to do. Then there are characters who didn't have a longer flashback when they died but they were really important characters, and they have their own stories told through the flashbacks of other characters. For example here we learned about the connection between Danzou and Orochimaru, we see some stuff about Sasori. Itachi's past is revealed in different flashbacks, even Kisame's flashback also about Itachi. You can either do things without flashbacks, by revealing information before the big battle, which takes away most of the mystery, or after the battle which then becomes boring, so Kishimoto places flashback inside battles to not spoil some stuff too early but also not tell it too late for people to care.

Its pretty funny that Kabuto's back-story was placed here to gain sympathy for his character, but it turns out that it has instead garnered resentment because of its placement in the story. Perhaps if his backstory has (or will) reveil new information relevent to the plot, it might have lessened some of the frustration; but it that looks doubtful at this point.

Perhaps it would make you feel better if you said "get back to tobi"? Thats pretty much the novelty of that fight to me; seeing what tobi is really capable of.

Kabuto was more or less a blank slate before this so we are learning new things about him and his relationships with other people. They're just not the earth-shaking discoveries that we had hoped for but they are new nonetheless.

We don't know for sure that his backstory is supposed to gain him sympathy. It could just be an information dump and nothing more for all we know.

I think its simply the length of the backstory. I, personally, did not mind the previous 2 chapters of the backstory, but when you add the week long Golden Week break, as well as the new chapter, all of a sudden Kabuto's backstory has taken a month or more to tell. That is simply too long for a backstory that offers up very little in the way of story advancement, and only offers any real character advancement to a character we all know will be gone within 10 chapters.

I guess the author is buying time, he is already working on what's to come after Kabuto's stuff ends, so it will be really cool and interesting :)
We are near the ending of this war, so the ending should have very good quality of both story and battles. Well, that's me being an optimist :)

I would've been pissed off if Kabuto just died as he was before the flashbacks, so this is good.

that's precisely why i "resent" this flashback. it feels like a call for sympathy since the guy is about to die or at least assumed to die. it's a trademark that kubo is famous for (most manga-ka do that sort of thing though) and i don't like it that kishi seems to be following suit. the placement is not only awkward, it's ill-timed. kishi placed it during the height of some major fights that readers would no doubt prefer to read about.

it's a shame since kabuto's story is not that all uninteresting. i believe that it would have gotten more positive reaction if kishi had chosen to reveal this bit about his life earlier in the series. this type of sob story was already done before, nagato and sai's flashbacks are similar and they already succeeded in gaining some sympathy. kabuto's story only confirms how much of an asshole danzou really was. you're right, if perhaps kishi could offer us something new with this flashback then it wouldn't feel like a waste of time.

hmm... little boring but I like how Kishi told Kabuto's story so far.... it's little dramatic and sounds like a short and brief review...

c'mon... let's go back to the fight... xD

I have to admit, I was hoping these flashbacks would hint towards some kind of nasty ulterior motive as to why he healed Hinata during the chuunin exams. Granted, that was always a longshot, but that possibility seems even more unlikely now that this is all coming to an end.

Kabuto is the series longest running villian (introduced in chapter 39) and you all want him offed by FUCKING Itachi? seriously?

Two completely unrelated things.

Longest running villain? Hmmm yea, kinda...but far from the best we've had so far. Hell Zabuza was the villain for just one arc and I still like him more...

Another one. I am not happy.
All in all Kabuto is getting a more throughly worked out background than most other villain folks - one that in and for itself actually kinda works for me, I find Orochimaru's part in things quite convincing for one.
All the more sader to me as, as posted on previous chapters, I would have prefered to have at least one villain without the emotional baggage. There's a couple of folks back in the story where some more background development would have been nice and we didnt get it. Now here of all places he takes the time for it.
I cannot complain anymore that the backstory is abyssaly bad/cliched, it kinda fits the general gist of Naruto-Villains pasts and as I said it's not written badly, comparatively speaking.

I just didn't and still don't want this style backstory for this particular character, least of all at this point in time.

Last words on chapter:

NEXT; PLEASE !!!

TOBI? YOUR TURN :D

I guess I'm the only one who has actually become interested by the flashbacks. Ever since Orochimaru entered, I've been intrigued; and the bit about Root having Kabuto and his mother kill each other? Epic.

I also liked the various pictures of the different sound shinobi, including Karin (who decidedly does not look happy, looks like Orochimaru has been biting her, ick) Jugo and Kimimaro, etc. It's the empire of fucked-up-edness, birthed by Danzo and Root, which is ultimately the reason why this war is happening--the secret service brought this on by its violent and downright evil policies.

Well, that, and Orochimaru is out of his mind...:)

Anything connected with Oro in Naruto after he passed away(or not) is good.

I think many of us are interested, we just complain about Kabuto's character not being built up properly for what is happening now. Also the main reason for not being too much interested in Kabuto is that we have two epic battles going on these were interrupted and we now have to wait about a month to get back to those battles.

Now that you mention "secret service": one good example of evil practices of secret services backfiring is the CIA training Osama Bin Laden against the soviets in afganistan, this guy made sure that the USA learns his name, he found his true self by doing so :D

did kabuto put oro's body into the "fruit stirring machine" and squeeze all the blood lol

kabuto's flashback wasnt back at all but i am more interested in how oro get his snake ability since childhood.

He fermented a bottle of wine with a venomous white snake in it, and then drank it. At least that's my version, since I don't think Kishimoto would go any further than "experiments".

I'm liking these chapters, Orochimaru was very straightforward with Kabuto, and although the latter followed him, it's easy to see just how evil they both are. Not making Kabuto a tragic hero of the past was a good move imo :)

I think two chapters were enough to spend on Kabuto's past. As I feared it is more or less a revenge story, just in a roundabout manner. Well, I just hope this was the last one. Kishi really needs to get back to the other two fights.

I don't think it's revenge, it's about the ninja system fucking up the lives of these guys like Kabuto and Itachi and many more. It seems Kishi wants to come to a theme of how heroes and villains are born out of this mess, so that the story finally converges to the Naruto vs Sasuke battle and to the savior (the one) against Tobi the "nobody".

I'm really liking these flashbacks. as I've said in earlier threads, it is a bit late, but better late than never. I'm in no rush to go back to the other fights either as great as they are. the longer the wait, the more satisfying the read and the more time kishi has to spend on them.

also, I dont think this flashback is designed to make us feel sympathy for kabuto. maybe to a degree, but it is more to explain his life and let us make our own judgments if we want. he was a blank slate that could have gone either good or bad. danzo's methods were the cause for his turn and orochimaru was there to give him a purpose. i find it all very interesting and since orochi is one of my favorite characters, i'll never complain about seeing more of him. kabuto's story is a bit sad, but not really. i'm just enjoying it and i really like how it tied many characters in this chapter.

the only issue i have is the timeline relating to sasori and kabuto. i'm not sure that makes sense... this story makes sense, but not in light of what we've heard before i think

Exactly. This whole story has become about how the Ninja system destroys peoples lives. From the very start of the series we have examples, Zabuza & Haku, Kabuto, obviously Sausuke, and even Naruto have been "tragic" victims of the cold ninja system. Now the story has to end off with Naruto tearing down the system and changing everything so that "no one has to suffer."

In that sense this flashback fits into place albeit its running a few chapters too long at this rate...

The ninja system is the manga's true villain.

When Naruto becomes Pope, destroys the current ninja system and replaces it with Narutism, I also expect the countries to wipe away their borders and morph into one large country with provinces. Fits into what we are seeing in this war. With everyone fighting under one banner. And there will be marrying between the villages and mixing of clans.

I also have to add that it's strange how some people complain that the author shows the child Kabuto as not being evil. What do these guys expect? Do they think there are people who are born evil and others born good? This way of thinking is like racism, and it's also a very simple black and white thinking about the world. The world is more complex than evil vs good, and for a manga that runs for 10 years, even if it's just a shonen manga it has to go beyond the simple Black&White depiction of the world, it makes the story more realistic and interesting.

And most importantly i believe there is no such thing as someone being born evil or good, everyone is born the same, then the society makes them either good or evil. Sure people are different, some are more introverted and some more extroverted, etc. and so their different traits make them react differently to events in the world. But if these events they suffer are really bad than it's the events that push them to be evil or good, and the difference in their personalities (are they more agressive or less agressive in nature due to their genetic inheritance, etc.) -while also being part of the equation - is not key factor of what they will become. And that is also one of the main points in this manga: when Naruto and Sasuke met for the last time it shows us a possible reverse situation, where the events have made of Naruto the evil one and Sasuke the good one (when Sasuke uses rasengan against Naruto's chidori).

People are missing point, because it is a story
how Orochimaru got a disciple, and Kabuto a master (sensei).
There is no revenge in it...

So Kabuto is a new generation villain and he will live (though may loose this battle because he is outnumbered)

Seriously. Kabuto is such an unlikeable character no matter how you twist it. Must be the color purple that is associated with him. Sasuke and Itachi needs to hurry up and just end this clown already.

Kabuto is Toguro elder brother from Yu Yu Hakusho

still lost at the part of how he returned back to the village and the sasory part. how did root not kill him?

Hmmm, another flashback chapter. And I believe this is the last one for Kabuto's story. Can't help to think that Orochimaru knew Danzou's plan to recruiting (forcefully) Kabuto into the Root, but later on assigned to be eliminated, and took that opportunity to get himself a genius henchman to help in his vile experiments. Almost made me feel sorry for Kabuto being a pawn for 2 evil dudes (Danzou and Orochimaru) to achieve their own selfish dream. I mean, For a spy to work for you in a long time, it's unlikely he will double-cross you...

I have to say that I liked these past two chapters. I always wondered what had inspired such a skilled shinobi as Kabuto to give his complete loyalty to Orochimaru, and now I know.

No matter what else he might be, Orochimaru is supremely skilled at taking the disillusioned and disenfranchised and forging them into his personal weapons.

He was under Orochimaru's protection. Obviously Oro and Danzou had an understanding.

For anyone feeling sorry for Kabuto, I wonder if Kishi will let Taka to have their revenge on him? Yeah, Kabuto was a victim, but he also did terrible things to them as Orochimaru's assistant, as this chapter showed. And they are the only living freaks from Oro's circus still around. I hate Taka and never want to see them again, but it would be poetic justice if Kabuto survives the Uchiha brothers only to get offed by angry lab experiments.

that's a very good point actually, how does any of this fit in with him showing his face at the chuunin exams? there was loads of ANBU around amongst which might have been multiple root and he himself did not always hide under his mask ...

Obvious plot hole is obvious

what about being under the control of akatsuki? how did it happened =/ did got that part. He just went by and got trap? didn't he say he didn't knew he was under the spell until just when naruto was about to reach Orochimaru's hideout?

Why is this so hard to understand? Kabuto was under Orochimaru's protection then. That is why he was able to walk around Konoha during the Chunnin exams. If Danzou killed Kabuto he would jeopardize his relationship with Orochimaru.

This is not a plot hole.

Even after he left the village and betrayed everyone, Danzou still had ties with him O_o?

^ No Orochimaru = no Hashirama arm = no Izanagi.

^ That's the truth. And Danzou probably wanted to keep track of what Oro was doing since he was a threat to Konoha. Keep your enemies closer, they say.

didn't thought there would be so many links here and there in kabuto's past
and kabuto, mixing so many blood samples and injecting into himself like that was disgusting, no wonder kabuto now has a body like this