Well, what you're saying is true. If you plan on doing overclocking then you should definitely consider a better HSF, such as the Zalman 9700, for example. However, you should probably be fine with a 400 mhz overclock. I'm running my E6400 at 2.8ghz, a 634 overclock and still running it at a lower voltage than stock. But you'll get there in no time, don't worry.

Hmm, I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong, but I think that was back in the DDR days. Nowadays, CPU and RAM run through different "pipelines", and so the speed of one shouldn't matter to the other - unless you're running them in SLI Linked mode, wich is a trick by Nvidia to sell the "SLI Memory" stuff. I don't use it, and I don't know many OCers who do. EPP is nice though, so that's a plus. If your Mobo says FSB 1333/1066, that's for CPU, not Ram. The RAM Standard field should say DDR2 800 - If so then you can buy DDR2 800 Ram and expect it to work just fine.

However that doesn't stop there, as there're higher frequency sticks out there that work flawlessly with so-called DDR2 800 mobos and such.

Sounds good, then. I looked at some other benchmarks and it does look like it performs better in real-world situations ( aka Games ) than the 8600. Since DX10 is out of question, you're free to get a good card for cheap.


Edit:

On a little off-topic note, HOLY SWEET MOTHER OF JEBUS. This thing is coming out with 4 PCI-E slots and DDR31800 support and 1600 FSB? ME WANTS.

Well, it looks like it has more good review regarding overclocking than bad. Btw, isn't that fan Zalman 9700 very big? :heh:

After reading the User Reviews, I'm kinda scared about the whole installing fan thing. Especially from this one:




That motherboard looks very expensive :twitch:

That's because the C2Ds are known to be great overclockers ( So are the Core2Xs, but that's on a different league ). However I didn't particularly recommend it only because of that, but because the specs are fairly better than the E4500 you had.

And I'll be the first one to let you know that installing the HSF is a pain in the butt. Just imagine pressing VERY HARD against a piece of expensive hardware that you paid over 100 bucks for ( not counting the processor... ) so that the thing finally gets fixed in place - or rather, you get one of the plugs in, the other one pops out... it's a real pain. But it's part of learning - just don't use a screwdriver or anything pointy to do it. Also, remember to apply only a thin layer of thermal compound to the processor. Really, a very thin, piece-of-paper-like thin layer of if before adding the heatsink.

While you're shopping for hardware, be sure to get yourself either the AS5 or the Shin-Etsu to go along. Both are great, although I chose the latter to use on my CPU over AS5 due to some good reviews I've read about it. Either way, you can't go wrong with those two.

The Zalman is quite big, and you won't fit it into anything less than a Mid-Tower case. But it does leave your CPU 4-5 degrees celcius cooler than stock and is fairly quiet - if you take out the buzzing noise that the power cable installed behind the heatpipes makes, which gets very annoying when you kick up the RPM in the fan. Still, a good product.

It is, although I can't say much since I paid over $250 for mine and I haven't used it to its full potential yet. But again... I won't be getting a new top-of-the-line computer in less than two years anyway, so it doesn't really matter much. We'll have DDR 13 by then.

Yes, I realize that. The thing is, I don't quite get how much boost I would get from like, a certain increase in number of FSB, L2 Cache, clock speed, comparatively.

Thanks for the suggestion. (from what I gather, you apply the thermal compound on the metal (or look like metal) surface with the brand name, right?

Regarding installing the HSF, I would prefer it if it's about "get one of the plugs in, the other one pops out" than having to "press it VERY HARD" And about "do not use a screwdriver or anything pointy to do it," is it to prevent slipping then possible damage to motherboard?

Also, would a custom bought fan be different to installed?

Thanks for telling. I didn't know about this thermal pasting thing.

Also, I'm looking for a suggestion of a case. Please select it in this list of priority:
-Cheap
-ATX

Hmmm... Actually, not much else XD. But preferably the side panel easy to unattached but sturdy, and transparent. (unless beeing able to see inside doesn't really help in anything) But yea, I'm more for practicality than look for the case.

EDIT:
Maybe this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119094

Don't pay extra for memory with EPP, it's pretty worthless.

If you were overclocking, I'd say buy either the Thermalright 120 or the Tuniq Tower 120, both are the best aftermarket air coolers in the market.

If you want a decent motherboard, the Abit P35 motherboards are very good at overclocking and very cheap.

True, it usually goes ontop of the metal plating that covers the top of the chip. It's hard to picture it if you don't actually see it in your hands, but trust me, you'll know what to work with once you see it. Also, always use google for these things if you have a question. When it comes to applying thermal paste, there're lots of good guides out there. Here's one. AS5's page also has a good guide on that at their website.

To tell you the truth, you won't be able to skip the pressure-applying process, since all the HSFs I know work on the basis that the tighter the heatsink<->CPU connection is, the better the cooling. It tends to hold true, and so most HSFs are made to need quite a lot of pressure to stay in place. Some are easier to install than others, but Intel's stock HSF should be pretty standard. It has four pins that you press against the motherboard, usually two at a time. Then you fix these pins in place by turning them 90 degrees (not sure if it's counter or clockwise, read the Manual first to make sure ), at which point you'll be able to inser the two other pins.

And yes, try to avoid anything that may scratch or damage the motherboard, especially under pressure. Screwdrivers and pointy things will do lots of damage if they slip. However, most of the time, you'll have to use them here and there, so make sure to be extra careful. I would advise using a piece of cloth - but then there's the problem with static. Apar from that, I don't know how you can reduce the risk of damage. Also, inspect your motherboard from both sides before doing anything to it and remember to look out for pins and resistors that may just snap if you apply pressure in the wrong area.

Depending on the retail option for a HSF, it may be easier or harder - it'll vary from product to product, as most things do. Personally, I found the Zalman to be fairly easy to install and remove after you figure out how it works. However it does require that you apply a lot of pressure with a philips screwdriver, so you need to take 5x the care so you don't stab your motherboard to a technological death. However, do a bit of searching if you want to go that way, especially at the forums of the company that manufactures your mobo. If it's a known HSF, there's likely to be a couple of topics talking about it there, and so you can have a guess at how it'll work with your particular case. I'm saying this because, in my case, the 680i has an array of transistors and pins in the back that, without modding the Zalman's backplate, would end up bent and damaged under the pressure of the HSF. Works great with a bit of dremelling, but without it I'd expect to have a few problems.

Windows come at a price, and that is: If you have problems sleeping with bright leds flashing at you if you decide to leave your computer on at night, get a closed case. When I bought mine, the first night was one hell of a trip. I have insomnia and I'm pretty picky on when/where I sleep, so having the two ultrabright LEDs on the motherboard - they stay on even with the computer turned off - shning my room like if I was in a disco was a pretty bad experience. It's been 8 months since I bought this computer and I have yet to leave it overnight - or even forget about turning off the PSU directly, so the room stays dark.

If your PC will be placed in an enclosed area, you might not have this problem, though. The Window adds a nice look to the rig, especially if you have some impressive hardware to boast about. Besides that, the only functionality application that comes to mind is if one of your components fries, your HSF pops off or something like that, and so you'll be able to see it instantly.

The case looks good, but you might consider getting a 80mm fan to add to the side for extra airflow and one 120mm fan to add to the back as an exhaust. Airflow in an air-cooled case is everything, so the 5-8 bucks you'll spend on those will be well worth it. Coolermaster has a couple of very good cases, so I don't think you'd have problems going their way.

This looks good.

This one looks promissing as well. Most of the reviews say it's easy to work with, so here's your option with a window.

Phew. I'll be getting some sleep now, but I'll get back to the chat tomorrow. We'll see how things are going in the morning. Good luck!

I think I'll stick with that memory, though, unless I find another one.

As for overclocking, I'm still deciding whether to do it or not. I'm thinking it won't be wise since I haven't built a PC before. (although boosting performance sounds nice)

Well, it seems inevitable that I'll have to face this after all. Good luck, myself, when you build it.


It was hard to resist the latter but I went with the former since it seems better overall.

I'll do the same, I guess. And thank you for taking your time on helping me. ^^ Thank you to grey_moon, Ledgem, hobbes_fan, problemedchild, Wandering Knight, and Fynal_Fyre as well.

I probably won't do this much when I wake up though. I still have got a ton of homeworks left to do. ;_;

As a closing statement... Personally, I wouldn't think buying a system with overclocking in mind would benefit you. It's a good thing to learn new stuff, such as how voltages and clocks and multipliers work together in the case of CPU, latency in the case of Ram... but really, will you see much of a difference by overclocking? I'm just overclocking my system because I can and because I wanted to learn how to do it.

OCing puts more pressure on your components, which is never nice. When done correctly it can be very beneficial to your system performance, but if done wrong can screw up a lot of things. Recently I kicked my FSB from 1066 to 1600, resulting in a CPU Speed of 3.2 GHZ at the stock voltage for a C2D. Worked fine for a couple of days, but then I started getting random crashes and lockups - the CPU wanted more juice, something I wasn't willing to give. So I kicked my speeds down to 2.8 and have been happy since.

My advice is to make sure it's working as you bought it first. If it does and you have interest in OCing, then learn from there. I know we've all been talking about the performance boosts and all, but that's because it's usually what someone goes after when building a custom PC. If you wanted a Dell, you'd buy a Dell right? Still, with the stuff you have picked, there's more than enough room for OCing if you want, so don't even bother with it anymore.

@problemedchild:

Still, there isn't much difference between the EPP and the Non-epps in the market, correct? Besides, the one I suggested does have nice reviews and is reliable, so I think it should be worth the extra 5-10 bucks.

And also, I think the Zalman has better ratings, although the Tuniq Tower is one sexy piece of hardware just by itself :D

I want the black 9700! Unfortunately the led is Green and since I have a whole set of Blue stuff in my case, it wouldn't match :\

Unless you're straining the components as they are, I'd think overclocking is only really appropriate if you're trying to squeeze some last life out of a system that's struggling with what you're trying to do. I think a lot of the overclockers sort of get caught up in this whole thing about how fast they can get their systems to go, and how many seconds/milliseconds it'll shave off of their OS boot time or benchmark scores. As Zero Shinohara noted, it strains the components somewhat. Sounds cool, gives you bragging rights, but it isn't that practical for most people. Don't think too much about it when deciding what to buy.

Oh... so overclocking doesn't seem to be as great as I thought. Thanks for the advice about not thinking too much regarding OC when selecting components.

Anyway, update to wishlist: (don't have newegg account, so yea)

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E6550 Conroe 2.33GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor
Patriot Extreme Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
SILVERSTONE Strider SST-ST40F ATX12V 400W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, CUL, CB, TUV
Foxconn FV-N79SM2D2-OC GeForce 7900GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
SAMSUNG Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 20X DVD±R DVD Burner
Rosewill R5604-BK 0.8mm SECC Screw-less Dual 120mm Fans ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

Accessories:
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
Rosewill RTK-015 15 Piece Standard Computer Tool Kit

Total: $No idea

PS: Wow... I can't believe I've been going for 7 hours nonstop...

EDIT: Dang... forgot about peripherals.
Anyway, for monitor, I think I'll get this one, plus there's a combo deal with this Plasma/LCD cleaner and this LCD cleaner :p

Added them to cart to see the price. Total is $$966.63 (that includes the shipping fee, which is $55.75; didn't include Mail In Rebate, which subtracts $60)

PS: I'm also quite concerned about the DOA thing as well. Seems like quite a few people have had this problem before :uhoh:

Only change I'd make DO NOT BUY THAT PSU. POS If ever there was one it's basically a rebadged 300w PSU. It can sustain 430w for like 3 secs before crapping itself. Bad and expensive experience. I have never bought a thermaltake product since.
Take your pick of any of these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817104954
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817128005
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817163104

According to a power usage calculator
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine
Your standard setup listed with a few extras to test against future upgades (2 extra PCI cards, 2 extra HDD's, 2 USB devices drawing power included in calculation) the system will require 280w at 90% load. All components working at 90% power, This never happens in RL. So 400w is plenty by my calculation.

A note on Overclocking: It's not necessary. Why I do it. I'm cheap. I only do it fo my gaming rig where the results will be tangible. 10-20 extra fames per second makes a lot of difference while gaming. I also use this PC to do encoding/transcoding of video and audio. Again it has visible results there. My HTPC is underclocked so it uses less power. Only do it if you need and you feel you will get results and the results will make a difference.

I mainly took that PSU to complete my list. (plus it has good User Reviews :heh:)

I was going for the 3rd one you has since it has the cheapest price, but it doesn't seem to have the PCI-E connector thingy (unless that isn't required) :p In any case, I choose the 2nd one. It compatibles with the components on my wishlist, right?

EDIT:
I wonder if 480W may be too much. The Supply Calculator on newegg shows that I don't need more than 400W. Not sure if the mobo I chose is regular or high end, but either way it still goes on 300sW. Well, the extra Watt will be useful in the future, I guess

Seriously need some sleep now...

The PCIE adaptor comes with your card. See pic http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowIm...-OC+Video+Card the cable with the 2 white bits going into the black bit. Also if it isn't see this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812200106

Those two coolers are better than the 9700

http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling...spx?i=3068&p=4

I'd go for the SilverStone PSU, pretty good brand name.

why are there two white bits? :p

Okay, I think I'm going for the 3rd PSU, the SilverStone then. But just a quick question, what do you look for when you buy a PSU? I'm mainly asking about the connectors since I honestly don't know what the "20 + 4" pins suppose to be nor the 12V Rails. And what are the reputable brands beside HIPER, FSP Group, and SilverStone?

*updated the wishlist*

Anyway, are there any changes I should make to it?

Usually because you can stack them with fans and other things. See the 6-pin power connector in the Video Card? The black connector will go into it, and one of the connectors from the PSU will go into either one of the two white ones. You get an extra one to connect to other things like fans and things of the sort, though I wouldn't say sharing power with your video card would be a nice idea - I don't have any stats to back this up, though.

However, depending on the power supply you get, there won't be a need to use those cables because the PSU itself will have a 6-pin connector already made to work with PCI-E cards. On the other hand, having too many cables may be a pain in the butt.

http://www.kidoutenshi.net/random/DSCF0295.gif

See? So many unused cables that my whole expansion bay area is clogged with them. For you a smaller PSU with less cables will do just fine.

I can't give you advice on choosing a PSU because that's really not my area. hobbes_fan knows much more about that than I do, so I'll leave it up to him.

Well, there's not much you can do about it, unfortunately. However, I wouldn't sweat much about it just because of the fact that you can't do anything about it. That's the thing about buying online - if something gets there DOA, you can't go to the store and exchange it. But the pro is that you'll never find such a low price without the crazy rebates retailers sometimes offer.

I bought my Mobo during a time when the 680i drivers were still in their infancy and people were frying Memory like no tomorrow. Out of every four topics in the EVGA message boards, 1 was about someone who had lost a memory stick using this board. They later found that voltages over 2.2v were not stable in it, and so there was a lot of comotion about it. That didn't stop me from buying it, and making sure the memory I got ( the Patriot ) wouldn't run over 2.2, I made a bit of a gamble. But I never had any problems, and so I was one of the lucky ones. Or maybe I was not one of the unlucky ones - Think about it, thousands of people worldwide bought this. If you're on the Message boards, it's because you have a problem, right? What about those who didn't have any? So it's hard to decide what to do.

Still, I bought a one-year replacement plan for every component I bought that could've gone bad. Memory, CPU, GPU and Mobo, they're all covered from any damages. It cost me a couple of bucks, but since it was also my first time, I decided to spend a bit on that and be on the safe side. I'm glad I did, though I never had to use any of them.

Haha, everyone forgets about them. Don't worry. And hey, at mid 900's, that's not bad at all. 22" LCD and all? Pretty good, pretty good! Maybe I'll save your wishlist and use it myself when my grandma decides to buy a computer for herself :heh: ( I'll give her one of my old ones, so I'll get some newer hardware... hopefully the 9800 GTX will be out by then :naughty: ... ).

But as I think most people will tell you, buying LCDs with Newegg isn't all that good. Their LCD replacement policy is pretty strict ( you have to have more than 8 dead pixels, yare yare... ). That's one of the things that would be better to go to a retail store to get, IMO. But then, no way you'll get such a good product for that price...

Hmmm, so then, I leave one of the two white connectors hanging?

Yes, already chose one of the 3 PSUs hobbes_fan suggested. The one I chose doesn't have the 6-pin connector for the PCI-E thingy, but it was the cheapest one, has just enough power, and problemedchild recommended that brand as well.

On another note, that does look like a mess. :heh:

On newegg, if it's DOA, they would offer a replacement, right?

I'll have to make note of that. :) Well err... how do you limit voltage to a memory stick...

I haven't included any replacement plan :p

:heh: You're the one who chose about half of the components though. But usually how long the saving on a product extend on newegg?

As for the LCD (along with other components), I'll hope for the best. I haven't order them yet, though... just to make sure I didn't miss anything.

5 things I look for in this budget.

1. power stability. A PSU has thee different kinds of voltage rails supplying power. 3.3volts, 5 volts and 12volts. what you want is stability across all those those power bands. a good psu will not fluctuate more than 10% plus or minus(5% for the really really top notch ones). The 12 volt power rail is the most important as it supplies most of the power.

2. reputation brands that have consistent review across all budgets, warranty etc etc

3. Efficiency. Ideally you want 80%+ certification, but 70% is pretty standard. It basically means no matter how much or little power you need it will run very efficiently and not waste power

4. Lots of connectors

5. I like the PSU to have a big fan. It almost always ensures quiet operation. It also helps with the cooling in a PC

Independent reviews help I tend to use the more common sites
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item=282&num=4
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.ph...1&redirect=yes
THe FSP is the PSU of choice from what it seems for tomshardware
http://www.tomshardware.com/search/s...ortron&x=0&y=0


Those white bits one will be male and one will be a female connector, you should only need to use one. But it depends on the card. Check the instructions.

It doesn't matter with newegg's lcd return policy. If the manufacturer warranty requirements are less for RMA just contact the manufacturer directly.

For a full size case I always prefer tower style HSF. I like the Coolermaster HyperTX and artic freezer 64 personally on a budget. With the way the fan on the Heatsink is positioned in a tower case it works together with the rear case fan, and PSU fan which improves airflow allowing you to run fans slower and quieter

Yep, they'll replace it through RMA in most cases, unless you did the damage yourself. That's why I chose to buy a replacement plan, just to be on the safe side of things. Perhaps you don't even need to get an extended plan for your CPU and GPU, since those are pretty standard, plug-and-play components. I just got them because my board was quite new and the bugs in it still unknown for the most part.

Usually, the memory will have a set voltage it runs at. For the Patriots, it's 1.85v, while some of the Corsairs will run at up to 2.1 volts. You can reduce or increase that in the BIOS, if your motherboard has those options ( which it should have ), but it's basically only necessary if you are overclocking. The faster the memory needs to run at, the higher the voltage you'll need to use in it, and so forth. However, the voltage should not oscilate by itself, so you don't need to worry about that.

http://www.kidoutenshi.net/random/DSCF0295_2.gif

There, those are my voltages and clocks. CPU is undervolted from the stock 1.2250 to 2.1275, but then it increases to x.xx88 as needed. Note that depending on your location and temperatures, your CPU will run cooler than mine. It's at 42C because it's 75F outside, since it's hot as hell and all <_<.

Well, comparing your HD:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136074 @ 79.99 + 4-5 S&H...

with

Compusa's Seagate at 109 + sales tax, which varies from one state to the other, you have about 30 bucks in savings right there, just to speculate.

When we go to the more expensive component section, such as the CPU:

E6550 at Newegg = $165

E6550 at Compusa = $230

is that you start seeing the difference.

But when you get to stuff like LCDs, of which there're many types, sizes and brands, you'll start seeing that retailers sometimes pull off better prices through rebates and promotions.

Same Monitor you picked up, for $20 less after MIR. And that's just because I'm only looking at Compusa - If you shop around you might find some better deals.

As for picking the components, well I really hope they'll work out for you as they did for me. I'd be ashamed of myself if something were to go wrong after all that :heh:

Couple of things to check:
1) Does the motherboard come with SATA cables?
2) Does the monitor come with VGA/DVI cables that will work with your video card?
3) Do you have an extra LAN Cable to connect the new computer to the internet?
4) A router if you don't have one already, so you can share the connection with the one you're using?
5) Speakers for the new rig, if you're not gonna use the ones you already have?
6 ) Do you have a whole day free that you can devote to building the machine? It's sometimes not nice having to stop at midpoint and then coming back and not remembering where you stopped.
7) Is the power supply set to work with the voltage in your area? 110/220v is what I mean with this. Having the wrong selection could fry things up. Plug the PSU to the power outlet first and turn it on before connecting to any hardware. If nothing happens, plug it off and continue.

I can't stress enough that you will need to read the manual for your motherboard before starting with anything. Don't even take it out of the box before reading it, and always keep it handy. You will see that it's not just getting the components into place, it's also finding that pins go where - all motherboards have a HD LED, Power Led, Power on/off cable, the USB cable that comes in your Case that you'll need to find the right place to plug it in at, the front audio connectors and the HSF connector that needs to go into the motherboard to make sure it's spinning correctly. Trust me, it's not that hard once you know what goes where, but if you're going out of the box diving into the blue, you'll get overwhelmed quickly.

But again, saying that probably won't change much, as I'm pretty sure you're taking this responsibly and you know your limitations and that you won't go ahead without making sure what is where.

Let us know when you get the goodies and if you have any problems. I'll be glad to help.

Just a note on this, it is theoretically possible to work around this using splitters. The most common splitters are Y-splitters, as in here:
http://www.supernotebook.com/atx%20a...er-350x350.jpg

There should be SATA-type splitters as well (if not, there are converter plugs you could use). It just plugs into your regular power connector and allows you to connect two devices to that power line, rather than one. I've also seen an "X" splitter (one with three ends), and I myself use a splitter that lets me connect seven devices to a single line. But a note about this: it's possible to overload your PSU this way. Even though you're splitting the line, the PSU can't provide more than a certan amount of power along that line (or if you want the official terminology, along that rail). If I hook up seven fans, I'm probably fine. If I hook up seven power-hungry hard drives, and put them all into access at the same time, they probably won't be getting the power that they need and I may damage the PSU in the process.

So hobbes_fan is right in that you want to make sure that there are a fair number of connectors, but don't go crazy looking for a PSU with a dozen or so. It seems like PSU makers get a bit cheap about it, so getting a few splitters can help you with expanding your system while still using a regular PSU.