Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll
Welcome to the discussion thread for Umineko no Naku Koro ni, Episode 23 (4-5).
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[The thread is created earlier this week as I probably won't make it in time today. Please do not go offtopic regardless if the episode has aired or not, and of course, please vote once you have at least watched it.
Episode 23 will be aired as usual, thus in 1h50 starting from the time of the thread creation.]
Haven't seen it yet but the pics look decent, my only comment is "MORTAL KOMBAT!" Hoping to here "mortal stampede" or "victima"
luckyssol
2009-12-02 12:38
In episode 14 nearly all of the discussion regarding the epitaph was cut. This time they kept what many believe to be a huge clue in solving it:
Spoiler for Epitaph clue:
"This door is opened only at probability of a quadrillion to one.
You will be blessed only at a probability of a quadrillion to one."
This clue is from a picture of the words written outside Rokkenjima's chapel. The picture was taken by Kumasawa probably sometime well before the tragedy.
+ More epitaph hints :D!
+ George jumping around like a spazzy video game fighter
+ THIS IS MY ANSWER/ROSE PETALS/Uzeze...everything about that scene lol
+ Better-than-average animation
+ Whatever that victima replacement was it kept the spirit really well
+ I *knew* that what Ange saw was Sakutaro :D
- Baaw, where's Krauss and his awkward smile and Kanon-kun's apologies? (okay not a real minus :heh:)
- But yeah, speaking of that, emotion was somewhat lacking in this episode...not totally, but it just seemed blander than it should've been.
Next week should be super epic :).
8/10
Leinne
2009-12-02 13:40
Spoiler for Opinion:
+Gearoge was cool, that's a big plus, way cooler than in the VN
+Jessica wasn't that good but definetely better than the average Jessica i don't like
+Ronove and his rose petals, he goes from badass to efeminate in like 10 seconds, then he goes back into full badass
+Good combat coreography
+Good animation
+About the music, definetely not better than the original, but I always thought the originals were a bit too cheerful, so a serioous one works too
+the chapel part
+One take from Captain Kawabata is his exact sprite (not really a +, but it was funny)
+Loved Gaap's voice
-Lacked a bit of emotion and impact overall
-Gaap's voice should be a lot louder
-No animal fodder
-Jessica's room lights have should been on
8-8.5, won't vote yet
Jan-Poo
2009-12-02 14:21
Lol I wonder what't the point of showing epitaph hints at this point.
But the thing that baffles me the most is the fact that this translation is exactly the same that witch hunt made! That's really an incredible coincidence considering it is not a literal translation in its stricter sense. It looks almost as if they borrowed it XD
Actually note how the first line says "at probability" following Battler spelling in Ep2, but the second line says "at a probability" like in witch hunt translation... uhmmmm...
Geekodot
2009-12-02 15:30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo
(Post 2797064)
Lol I wonder what't the point of showing epitaph hints at this point.
But the thing that baffles me the most is the fact that this translation is exactly the same that witch hunt made! That's really an incredible coincidence considering it is not a literal translation in its stricter sense. It looks almost as if they borrowed it XD
Actually note how the first line says "at probability" following Battler spelling in Ep2, but the second line says "at a probability" like in witch hunt translation... uhmmmm...
OR Witch hunt is really REALLY good at getting it just right and should release Ep 5 patch before Ep 6 is out because everything is just fixed by them guessing right xD
I did enjoy this episode, but I do miss Hibuta here. The replacement for Victima was good though.
The only real complaints I have for this episode, except for the soundtracks I miss from the VN, are the lack of emotion (again compared to the VN). This scene in the VN was super epic, this scene in the anime was pretty good... that's the problem imo ^^
Workworkwork
2009-12-02 15:49
Even Goldsmith couldn't make up for no Hibuta or Victima.
immblueversion
2009-12-02 15:59
The only thing that irked me about this episode was that they neglected to credit Nanjo Jr.'s VA (I know the TIPS state his name is Masayuki, but hey). Now we will never know who it is unless people have a REEEEALLY good ear (if the guy IS that notable, of course), or if they bother to put up his character artwork on the official anime website. Which they might, because they have done so for Okonogi and some of DEEN's character models that we won't be seeing again in the foreseeable future.
Other than that, DEEN just took all my fears about the scenes that were to be portrayed and snuffed them out. What they DID end up changing/cutting, I forsaw.
Spoiler:
Jessica and George's power-ups and looked EXACTLY how I imagined them to be.
Here's hoping they will ever be this cool again in the future. From what I already know about the future, they just might be. Maybe.
10/10
Marion
2009-12-02 15:59
I'll make a review later, but generally a good episode nonetheless. 8/10, mostly due to music cuts (Victimia and Hibuta) along with some oddities.
ijriims
2009-12-02 17:00
I have to say the handwriting of Kumasawa did not match the phrase"To my beloved apprentice" written in Maria' notebook.
Chocolate Pocky
2009-12-02 18:53
I'm majorly excited to watch this subbed. And I really hate cliffhangers now....I'm lovin' Jessica's part :D and for some strange reason, I would think Gaap wouldn't wear underwear :uhoh:, but I'm really glad she does.:heh:
Marion
2009-12-02 19:35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolate Pocky
(Post 2797500)
I'm majorly excited to watch this subbed. And I really hate cliffhangers now....I'm lovin' Jessica's part :D and for some strange reason, I would think Gaap wouldn't wear underwear :uhoh:, but I'm really glad she does.:heh:
Well she actually doesn't. DEEN just can't flash genitals on screen. Not really their fault though, not even the most sauciest shows can do something like that on television.
Jan-Poo
2009-12-02 19:41
I thought they would have used tactical camera angles to get around the problem.
TsundereCake
2009-12-02 19:43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion
(Post 2797576)
not even the most sauciest shows can do something like that on television.
*cough*Queen's*cough*Blade*cough*cough*
Anyway, this episode went slower than I thought it would : DDDD I liked it better then ep 22.
The anime is winding down DDDDDD: Only three episode left :(
Christen
2009-12-02 20:08
8/10 due to no Hibuta and lack of emotions. Props for everything else and Gaap fanservice.
Victima's replacement wasn't bad so I'll give it a plus. George knows kung-fu.
KanonTheFurniture
2009-12-02 21:34
Wow, not even 5 minutes into the episode and I can already tell that, at least with the 1998 scenes, I'm gonna need to wait for the subs to properly understand everything. Japanese numbers and I do not get along...
Spoiler for review:
-Everything in the scenes with Nanjo's son and Kumasawa's son seem to be as I remembered them from the VN, but as I said, I'll need to wait for subs to make sure the entire essence of the conversations was kept. Sure didn't creep me out the way it did in the VN (it was after midnight when I got to this scene...), probably because they chose to show the flashbacks all at once rather than interspersed with Rokkenjima scenes for this part (a decision I actually prefer, it's a lot less confusing) and this scene didn't come right after the first twilight massacre...but it seemed to still get the point across, and that's what's important ^^;
-They kept the riddle in Kumasawa's house!! I know this scene has to be super important, but for some reason I was expecting it to get lost. Of course, it loses some impact with a certain scene they cut from EP2...
-Pfft...Ange seeing 'something' was really lame. Lame enough for me to deduct a full point from my overall rating, and I haven't even seen the rest of the episode yet (I write these as I watch)...but that scene was no doubt extremely important and the impact in the VN was intense. This was just like...ugh. My biggest disappointment with EP4 so far, honestly. It had the emotional impact of some EP1 scenes.
-Gohda and Kumasawa didn't seem to care at all that they were being locked inside the garden shed with a mad Kinzo and crazy fuckin' magical creatures on the loose. Seriously...we're not even to the 10 minute mark and this episode is becoming a huge let down emotion-wise...
-Still no Gap/Lia interaction...
-Aaaand as soon as Jessica opens her door, there's a demon standing there illuminated by lightning. Funny...because the way I remembered this scene is that Jessica walked into her room, there was no one there, and she was relieved for a while after locking the door...and then realizing that locking the door may be against the rules of the test and put the others in harm, she rises to go unlock it and then Ronove appears just before she can. Again - completely shattered the impact.
-Jessica's choice wasn't too bad, but I think a combination of Marina Inoue and surprisingly good animation really helped it. Also, Krauss/Kanon interaction is good.
-George's choice was ridiculous. I know that the whole point is that he didn't even need to think about the answer he chose, but it's just such a total shock in the VN (at least to me it was; I was expecting him to choose the same as Jessica, considering his character until that point). George and Gaap's VA's were great, though.
-BADASS GEORGE IS WIN. I'm of the minority that actually likes Anime George (okay, maybe he's not supposed to be so bishie, but is that REALLY a bad thing?), and seeing him like this is really cool. One of the few things in this episode so far that I can actually call intense. Jessica's wasn't as impressive, probably because it was easy to see her fiddling for the brass knuckles and the punch wasn't all that surprising...but still, Awesome!George and Awesome!Jessica are some of the best scenes in the first 4 arcs if you ask me, so seeing it animated is awesome no matter what.
-I really like the music used in this scene, by the way. It's not familiar, so it must be Anime-original. I don't think it's entirely fitting in context, but on its own the music is really nice. They just...should have picked a better choice for this scene.
-Awesome Gaap is awesome too. I always wondered how they'd handle her outfit when the time came to animate this fight, considering it's all about the legs... :P
-GEORGE. IS EPIC. AGAIN. I think my rating for this episode is going to pretty much revolve around how awesome George is, because so far that's almost all the episode's got going for it.
-Jessica breaking Ronove's barrier was well-done. I really like the glowing/flaming fists.
-Again, enjoying the Anime-original music, but just not for these scenes. Where is my Death (From Stupefaction)? My Victima Propiciatoria? Hibuta?! Mortal Stampede?!?! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUU--
-...really...awkward way to end the episode...honestly it all blew by so fast I didn't even realize the episode was over until the ED started playing, but seriously, really weird place to stop it. I mean I can kinda see why they did it considering what will happen next week, but...
This episode was really, really awful. I mean, some nice action on the fight scenes (really nice, actually; it's clear they put a lot of effort into animating this episode very well), but that's just not enough to save the overall quality of pretty much every last scene. This isn't a Shounen Anime (even if most of the EP4 fights are strong intentional parodies of them) and it shouldn't feel like one...there have to be pauses for the story and character development, which is what drives this series in the first place. This just felt like a typical Shounen battle-of-the-week episode, and I'm not happy about that. The 1998 scenes were done well for the most part, the voice acting was great and the animation was superb, but everything else was like back to EP1 all over again.
I suppose in a way it's a good thing, because it means 24-26 will have more room to be the best they can possibly be (and that is absolutely necessary), but...I just feel like they could have spread it around a bit better. George and Jessica have been pretty flat characters in the Anime so far, so it's really sad to see their chances to shine diluted down to Shounen Sidekicks... *sigh* I'll wait for subs before voting as I always do, but I'm between a 4 and 5 for this, and it's only that high because of the epic fight scenes, animation, voices, and badass George. But in the end, Umineko is not where I go to get my Shounen fix, and that's just not enough to make this episode satisfying. Most disappointing episode since 11, and for the first time since the Anime started I'm not excited for next week's episode (the preview might change that, but we'll see). Total trainwreck...I'm usually pretty positive about the Anime all things considered, but this was just inexcusably bad. Damn you, DEEN.
Edit: Really? I'm the only one who was really disappointed in this episode? Man, now I feel like Workworkwork, that's not cool... :(
immblueversion
2009-12-02 21:48
Quote:
Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture
(Post 2797736)
Wow, not even 5 minutes into the episode and I can already tell that, at least with the 1998 scenes, I'm gonna need to wait for the subs to properly understand everything. Japanese numbers and I do not get along...
Spoiler for review:
-Everything in the scenes with Nanjo's son and Kumasawa's son seem to be as I remembered them from the VN, but as I said, I'll need to wait for subs to make sure the entire essence of the conversations was kept. Sure didn't creep me out the way it did in the VN (it was after midnight when I got to this scene...), probably because they chose to show the flashbacks all at once rather than interspersed with Rokkenjima scenes for this part (a decision I actually prefer, it's a lot less confusing) and this scene didn't come right after the first twilight massacre...but it seemed to still get the point across, and that's what's important ^^;
-They kept the riddle in Kumasawa's house!! I know this scene has to be super important, but for some reason I was expecting it to get lost. Of course, it loses some impact with a certain scene they cut from EP2...
-Pfft...Ange seeing 'something' was really lame. Lame enough for me to deduct a full point from my overall rating, and I haven't even seen the rest of the episode yet (I write these as I watch)...but that scene was no doubt extremely important and the impact in the VN was intense. This was just like...ugh. My biggest disappointment with EP4 so far, honestly. It had the emotional impact of some EP1 scenes.
-Gohda and Kumasawa didn't seem to care at all that they were being locked inside the garden shed with a mad Kinzo and crazy fuckin' magical creatures on the loose. Seriously...we're not even to the 10 minute mark and this episode is becoming a huge let down emotion-wise...
-Still no Gap/Lia interaction...
-Aaaand as soon as Jessica opens her door, there's a demon standing there illuminated by lightning. Funny...because the way I remembered this scene is that Jessica walked into her room, there was no one there, and she was relieved for a while after locking the door...and then realizing that locking the door may be against the rules of the test and put the others in harm, she rises to go unlock it and then Ronove appears just before she can. Again - completely shattered the impact.
-Jessica's choice wasn't too bad, but I think a combination of Marina Inoue and surprisingly good animation really helped it. Also, Krauss/Kanon interaction is good.
-George's choice was ridiculous. I know that the whole point is that he didn't even need to think about the answer he chose, but it's just such a total shock in the VN (at least to me it was; I was expecting him to choose the same as Jessica, considering his character until that point). George and Gaap's VA's were great, though.
-BADASS GEORGE IS WIN. I'm of the minority that actually likes Anime George (okay, maybe he's not supposed to be so bishie, but is that REALLY a bad thing?), and seeing him like this is really cool. One of the few things in this episode so far that I can actually call intense. Jessica's wasn't as impressive, probably because it was easy to see her fiddling for the brass knuckles and the punch wasn't all that surprising...but still, Awesome!George and Awesome!Jessica are some of the best scenes in the first 4 arcs if you ask me, so seeing it animated is awesome no matter what.
-I really like the music used in this scene, by the way. It's not familiar, so it must be Anime-original. I don't think it's entirely fitting in context, but on its own the music is really nice. They just...should have picked a better choice for this scene.
-Awesome Gaap is awesome too. I always wondered how they'd handle her outfit when the time came to animate this fight, considering it's all about the legs... :P
-GEORGE. IS EPIC. AGAIN. I think my rating for this episode is going to pretty much revolve around how awesome George is, because so far that's almost all the episode's got going for it.
-Jessica breaking Ronove's barrier was well-done. I really like the glowing/flaming fists.
-Again, enjoying the Anime-original music, but just not for these scenes. Where is my Death (From Stupefaction)? My Victima Propiciatoria? Hibuta?! Mortal Stampede?!?! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUU--
-...really...awkward way to end the episode...honestly it all blew by so fast I didn't even realize the episode was over until the ED started playing, but seriously, really weird place to stop it. I mean I can kinda see why they did it considering what will happen next week, but...
This episode was really, really awful. I mean, some nice action on the fight scenes (really nice, actually; it's clear they put a lot of effort into animating this episode very well), but that's just not enough to save the overall quality of pretty much every last scene. This isn't a Shounen Anime (even if most of the EP4 fights are strong intentional parodies of them) and it shouldn't feel like one...there have to be pauses for the story and character development, which is what drives this series in the first place. This just felt like a typical Shounen battle-of-the-week episode, and I'm not happy about that. The 1998 scenes were done well for the most part, the voice acting was great and the animation was superb, but everything else was like back to EP1 all over again.
I suppose in a way it's a good thing, because it means 24-26 will have more room to be the best they can possibly be (and that is absolutely necessary), but...I just feel like they could have spread it around a bit better. George and Jessica have been pretty flat characters in the Anime so far, so it's really sad to see their chances to shine diluted down to Shounen Sidekicks... *sigh* I'll wait for subs before voting as I always do, but I'm between a 4 and 5 for this, and it's only that high because of the epic fight scenes, animation, voices, and badass George. But in the end, Umineko is not where I go to get my Shounen fix, and that's just not enough to make this episode satisfying. Most disappointing episode since 11, and for the first time since the Anime started I'm not excited for next week's episode (the preview might change that, but we'll see). Total trainwreck...I'm usually pretty positive about the Anime all things considered, but this was just inexcusably bad. Damn you, DEEN.
Edit: Really? I'm the only one who was really disappointed in this episode? Man, now I feel like Workworkwork, that's not cool... :(
Well, there was the person who gave it a 4/10. Now that's two sub-par ratings out of over a dozen who found this something of an improvement from DEEN's past work.
